From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Nov 1 01:23:36 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 1 01:23:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Possible scam In-Reply-To: <8C7AC562D7EF585-1E9C-8F3@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Yes Dave, I'd like to see what they came up with next ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens betdav97@aol.com Verzonden: maandag 31 oktober 2005 18:18 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Possible scam Hi group, I have been involved in a scam, if anyone would like info on such, e-mail off list and I'll provide the details to you. I have already e-mailed a couple of folks on the list; Gene Hartstein and Michael Schmidt. Michael declined to answer me, but Gene and I discussed it. The US Attorney General and the FBI have been involved also. It was kind of interesting to go through. I lost no money, so I have no regrets, but it was a great learning experience. All of you have a good day. Dave Phillips Sunset Fossils & Minerals Morgantown, WV Betdav97@aol.com or WVFossils@aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Tue Nov 1 06:43:21 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Tue Nov 1 06:43:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] wanted: Lamprey References: <20051026121531.83407.qmail@web30207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005301c5def2$9b14a300$6402a8c0@remains> Hi is there anyone on the list who may have a lamprey specimen they can sell me (it will most likely be Mazon Creek, which is fine) Please let me know thanks Michael From wolflady at blackfoot.net Tue Nov 1 06:46:51 2005 From: wolflady at blackfoot.net (Shane & Missy Kesterke) Date: Tue Nov 1 06:46:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] new rockhound with question References: Message-ID: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> Hi, I recently started learning about rocks/minerals/fossils etc and have a couple questions. Forgive me if they are silly, but believe me, I start with no background in this area. First, what kind of display container is good to use. So far I have specimens everywhere from our vehicles, to the kitchen, to my bedroom closet (those are the special ones) : ) I would like a small case-type container to put the ones I have identified in, where they can be covered to keep dust out. My other question is...I went to Lolo Pass in Montana and collected a few small quartz cyrstals a few weeks ago. Is there some way to get them out of the rock they came in? The ones I gently tried to hammer out, broke. Thanks for any input. Missy Montana From betdav97 at aol.com Tue Nov 1 07:10:52 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 1 07:11:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about displaying a specimen of crude oil In-Reply-To: <4366E5E8.5412@Tomaszewski.net> References: <4366E5E8.5412@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <8C7AD0D9580D4AD-1C38-6C0E@FWM-R41.sysops.aol.com> Hi Kreigh, I have oil samples in just a vial with a screw cap. I don't open and close them very often; but they don't leak or smell. Some of our crude oil here in West Virginia is so thick, I leave it attached to specimens. You can bend it back and forth. In one quarry, we use oil seeps to locate pockets of quartz crystals, which also have oil in them. They fluoresce green under long wave, and blue under short wave. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:52:45 -0500 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about displaying a specimen of crude oil Hey List, I have an opportunity to acquire a small amount of crude oil from a local well. I think this would be an interesting addition to my collection, but I am concerned on how I can safely display it. I have been considering a laboratory acid bottle with a glass stopper that I would seal with (hot) paraffin. Has anyone had experience with long term storage/display of samples of crude oil that can suggest something better? My key concerns are spilling or evaporation -- is there something else I should be concerned with? The display case will be fairly constant room temperature (70 F), but might vary between 50 and 90 F. I would like to avoid having the area smell like an oil well. Thanks for your suggestions! Kreigh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Paintricks at aol.com Tue Nov 1 07:15:34 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 1 07:15:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] new rockhound with question Message-ID: <239.1077fe.3098e096@aol.com> There's a place called the container store . I'm not sure if there is one in your area but hey have all kinds of things that make good displays. Maybe there's one online for you to check out. Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From info at wisdomofstones.com Tue Nov 1 07:45:38 2005 From: info at wisdomofstones.com (wisdom of stones) Date: Tue Nov 1 07:52:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Federation groups, clubs, etc. USA In-Reply-To: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> Message-ID: Hi - I'm new to this list, and enjoying the discussion threads. I'm a licensed therapist, intuitive, teacher, writer and metaphysician. A focus of my work is in the area of glacial stone wisdom and divination. I'm wanting to present my materials, workshops (and products) to rock and mineral clubs, fairs, conferences, etc this coming year and am wondering how best to contact the various groups across the country. Any guidance and resources you can offer would be appreciated. Thanks very much. kind regards, Jennifer Isham Wisdom of Stones From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Nov 1 08:30:38 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Nov 1 08:30:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] new rockhound with question In-Reply-To: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> Message-ID: <4367982E.1060006@tenforward.com> Hi Missy, There are lots of different ways to go regarding displays. Many will depend on your budget. There's everything from glass wall and floor display cases (rejects from closing stores can sometimes be inexpensively had) to pull out old dresser drawers. There are handy types of displays for holding your single crystals (check out Riker displays) to larger display's for bigger specimens. Just a couple thoughts. Now, for your Lolo Pass comments... Lolo Pass is a great place to discover treasure and one which I very much enjoying digging myself. The jet black quartz from here is among the finest known. These are usually found as loose single crystals that have weathered free of their matrix. Matrix is a term referring to the host rock that the crystals are growing from. At Lolo, this is usually crystallized feldspar. Combination plates of feldspar and quartz crystals from Lolo are extremely rare and desirable and from your comments ( Is there some way to get them out of the rock they came in? ), this scares the beegeezers out of me! If indeed you do have matrix plates, your a very lucky girl. Unless the specimen has lots of breaks and dings, consider holding off on your trimming until you can show your specimen to someone with a bit more experience, if you've got a good matrix plate from Lolo, again, your a very lucky girl! Now, if you decide that you absolutely have to trim your specimen down to make it more perfect, there are trimmers designed specifically for our hobby. Wydar is a company that comes to mind (but to be honest, I've broke two of their trimmers and I'm not particularly impressed by their products, still, this is a beginning for you to consider pursuing). Long story short, ya done good finding treasure, now the fun part of learning about and displaying your treasure begins, good luck and all the very best, John Shane & Missy Kesterke wrote: > Hi, I recently started learning about rocks/minerals/fossils etc and > have a couple questions. Forgive me if they are silly, but believe me, > I start with no background in this area. First, what kind of display > container is good to use. So far I have specimens everywhere from our > vehicles, to the kitchen, to my bedroom closet (those are the special > ones) : ) I would like a small case-type container to put the ones I > have identified in, where they can be covered to keep dust out. > > My other question is...I went to Lolo Pass in Montana and collected a > few small quartz cyrstals a few weeks ago. Is there some way to get > them out of the rock they came in? The ones I gently tried to hammer > out, broke. > Thanks for any input. > Missy > Montana > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Tue Nov 1 08:33:00 2005 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Tue Nov 1 08:33:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] new rockhound with question In-Reply-To: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> Message-ID: <436798BC.8090903@azgs.az.gov> There are a lot of possibilities, but it sounds like you might be able to use the flat clear plastic cases that are made for keeping things like spare parts and nuts and bolts. They are sometimes made for stacking and they are sometimes divided into various size compartments. And they are inexpensive. This is something my wife uses to keep smaller specimens clean and not clinking against each other. There is no good way to get crystals out of rocks most of the time. Crystals attached to the rock or "on matrix" are actually worth more usually than loose crystals. At some locales you can find loose unattached crystals, but any crystal with a broken end is not as valuable to mineral collectors; mineral collectors prize specimens with no broken parts. On the other hand, there are a lot of people out there who think that a piece of quartz that has been cut and polished to resemble a real crystal is just jim-dandy. Much of the work in preparing a mineral specimen for sale consists of whittling away at the rock around the crystal until the crystal sits up nicely and prominently and looks appealing while still attached to the original rock. Shane & Missy Kesterke wrote: > Hi, I recently started learning about rocks/minerals/fossils etc and > have a couple questions. Forgive me if they are silly, but believe me, > I start with no background in this area. First, what kind of display > container is good to use. So far I have specimens everywhere from our > vehicles, to the kitchen, to my bedroom closet (those are the special > ones) : ) I would like a small case-type container to put the ones I > have identified in, where they can be covered to keep dust out. > > My other question is...I went to Lolo Pass in Montana and collected a > few small quartz cyrstals a few weeks ago. Is there some way to get > them out of the rock they came in? The ones I gently tried to hammer > out, broke. > Thanks for any input. > Missy > Montana > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov From Paintricks at aol.com Tue Nov 1 08:49:50 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 1 08:50:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Will trade septarian nodule calcite geode for herkimers. Message-ID: <232.14fa87.3098f6ae@aol.com> Hey guys, I have a Septarian Nodule crystal calcite geode for trade of Herkimer Diamonds if anyone has some to trade. I like to give them to the kids when I show my collection to the cub and boy scout troops for a friend of mine. I like them to be on the host rock to show their original settings but I also enjoy them to be singles too. Here is a picture of the geode if anyone has some to let go of. Thanks, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg image/jpeg --- From davisj at earthlink.net Tue Nov 1 08:53:46 2005 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Tue Nov 1 08:54:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Federation groups, clubs, etc. USA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Are you any relation to Art Isham, in AK?? From kahako at verizon.net Tue Nov 1 09:23:24 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Nov 1 09:24:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] lava Halloween picture Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051101071759.024a4b78@incoming.verizon.net> Hi List, If you check the site below today, you'll see a neat picture of lava going into the ocean, that looks like a Halloween ghoul. This is the local newspaper, showing yesterday's front page, so they will change the page either late today or early tomorrow. I've copied the picture into a word document, so if you can't see it on the web, contact me off-list and I'll send it to you. http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/ Aloha, Kitty From kahako at verizon.net Tue Nov 1 09:44:05 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Nov 1 09:44:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] lava pictures PS Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051101073245.024a4470@incoming.verizon.net> I just noticed that if you register (it's free and quick) with the Hawaii Tribune-Herald you can read all their articles, and there's an interesting one on the origins of Pu'u Mahana, which you can find by clicking on "volcano update." Once again, I've copied it, so if you can't view it on-line, you can contact me off-list and I'll send it to you. Aloha, Kitty From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Nov 1 10:29:14 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Nov 1 10:28:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Federation groups, clubs, etc. USA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4367B3FA.4010308@verizon.net> wisdom of stones wrote: > Hi - > I'm new to this list, and enjoying the discussion threads. > > I'm a licensed therapist, intuitive, teacher, writer and metaphysician. Hi, Please take this in the most helpful of tones. There is an umbrella organization for mineral clubs, the American Federation of Mineralogical Societies: http://amfed.org/ Not every club in the U.S. is affiliated with a federation, but many are. Please be aware that people's interest in rocks & minerals does not necessarily equate to an interest in metaphysics and New Age, etc. In fact, as a former officer of several federation clubs, I can tell you that there has been some debate over whether to acknowledge these things as part of our sphere of interest. One officer even dicussed making a federation-wide policy disavowing any connection between the rock & mineral hobby and spiritual uses of rocks & minerals. I'm sure you're aware that this subject can raise some serious passions. I'd suggest that, when you write to any organizations where you would like to present, you make your intentions clear and offer a sketch of what you intend to discuss. You may be ignored, you may receive some invitations to speak, and you may receive some scornful rebuffs. I'm not saying whether any of these responses are right or wrong; it is simply what you should expect. I remember one board meeting where a local rock shop owner proposed bringing in a healer to speak to the club. The proposal was literally shouted down. On the other hand, I know that some clubs embrace these topics. I hope that the sum of my experience in this matter has been useful to you, and good luck in your endeavors. Don From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 1 12:21:24 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Nov 1 12:21:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] new rockhound with question In-Reply-To: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> Message-ID: <20051101202124.71153.qmail@web34310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> How to store/display specimens depends on the size of the specimens, and how much you are willing (or able) to spend. I can only relate what I do: For larger specimens, a cabinet with a glass front (to prevent dust build-up is best. I use "lawyer book cases". These are stackable bookcases with a glass door in the fromt that hinges up. I built a shelf in each out of thick Plexiglas. Smaller specimens that aren't on display are stored in egg cartons. 16 egg cartons can be put in a cardboard orange crate. The next size smaller (thumbnails) are mounted in thumbnail or "perky" boxes. These can be purchased from Althor Products in Connecticut. Unfortunately, they have a $ 50.00 minimum order. I display thumbnails in discarded Timex watch display cases that I have purchased over the years at club auctions. In some cases, I've had to add lighting. The smallest specimens are mounted in micromount boxes. These can be obtained from Althor, or from me ( www.sauktown.com ). I store micros in a flexible plastic box designated AFC-1 by Althor. These boxes hold 50 micro boxes each, and I stack them on a closet shelf in my office. Hope this is of some help. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales --- Shane & Missy Kesterke wrote: > Hi, I recently started learning about > rocks/minerals/fossils etc and have a > couple questions. Forgive me if they are silly, but > believe me, I start with > no background in this area. First, what kind of > display container is good to > use. So far I have specimens everywhere from our > vehicles, to the kitchen, > to my bedroom closet (those are the special ones) : > ) I would like a small > case-type container to put the ones I have > identified in, where they can be > covered to keep dust out. > > My other question is...I went to Lolo Pass in > Montana and collected a few > small quartz cyrstals a few weeks ago. Is there some > way to get them out of > the rock they came in? The ones I gently tried to > hammer out, broke. > Thanks for any input. > Missy > Montana > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From hkrocke at netscape.ca Tue Nov 1 14:27:39 2005 From: hkrocke at netscape.ca (hkrocke) Date: Tue Nov 1 14:30:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rejected e-mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I had two e-mails returned. One to : David Bese The Rainforest Hippie "rain forest" re Greenwater. an other one to: John and Gloria Cornish re Robertson Pit . Both say that they were rejected by your anti-spam software. Would both of you please advise me of how to get through to you. Thank you Hilmar From agesilaus at gmail.com Tue Nov 1 14:36:41 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Nov 1 14:36:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about displaying a specimen of crude oil In-Reply-To: <8C7AD0D9580D4AD-1C38-6C0E@FWM-R41.sysops.aol.com> References: <4366E5E8.5412@Tomaszewski.net> <8C7AD0D9580D4AD-1C38-6C0E@FWM-R41.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: We had some Kuwait crude from the USEPA as a qc sample set for many years. I think we got it back in the early 80's when EPA was giving out no-cost qc samples. It was in a standard straight walled glass screw top vial, probably 30 mL, with just some tape wrapped around the screw top. Electrical tape works. I think we finally tossed them last year but had them for over 20 years with no leaks. BK On 11/1/05, betdav97@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Kreigh, > I have oil samples in just a vial with a screw cap. I don't open and close > them very often; but they don't leak or smell. Some of our crude oil here > in West Virginia is so thick, I leave it attached to specimens. You can > bend > it back and forth. In one quarry, we use oil seeps to locate pockets of > quartz crystals, which also have oil in them. They fluoresce green under > long wave, and blue under short wave. > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:52:45 -0500 > Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about displaying a specimen of crude oil > > > Hey List, > > I have an opportunity to acquire a small amount of crude oil from a > local well. I think this would be an interesting addition to my > collection, but I am concerned on how I can safely display it. > > I have been considering a laboratory acid bottle with a glass stopper > that I would seal with (hot) paraffin. > > Has anyone had experience with long term storage/display of samples of > crude oil that can suggest something better? > > My key concerns are spilling or evaporation -- is there something else I > should be concerned with? The display case will be fairly constant room > temperature (70 F), but might vary between 50 and 90 F. I would like to > avoid having the area smell like an oil well. > > Thanks for your suggestions! > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Tue Nov 1 16:06:31 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Tue Nov 1 16:06:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about displaying a specimen of crude oil References: <4366E5E8.5412@Tomaszewski.net><8C7AD0D9580D4AD-1C38-6C0E@FWM-R41.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00cf01c5df41$4a7a6250$f91571ce@marilyn> Kreigh I have had crude samples in a pepsi bottle a 40 ml VOC glass bottle and other bottles in my display case for well since the late 70's, no smell, no leaks, no problems. Some have electricians tape some do not. I wouldn't keep them next to delicate non cleanable specimens but quartz agate etc should be no problem even if some gets spilled. Keep on rockin Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:36 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question about displaying a specimen of crude oil We had some Kuwait crude from the USEPA as a qc sample set for many years. I think we got it back in the early 80's when EPA was giving out no-cost qc samples. It was in a standard straight walled glass screw top vial, probably 30 mL, with just some tape wrapped around the screw top. Electrical tape works. I think we finally tossed them last year but had them for over 20 years with no leaks. BK On 11/1/05, betdav97@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Kreigh, > I have oil samples in just a vial with a screw cap. I don't open and close > them very often; but they don't leak or smell. Some of our crude oil here > in West Virginia is so thick, I leave it attached to specimens. You can > bend > it back and forth. In one quarry, we use oil seeps to locate pockets of > quartz crystals, which also have oil in them. They fluoresce green under > long wave, and blue under short wave. > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:52:45 -0500 > Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about displaying a specimen of crude oil > > > Hey List, > > I have an opportunity to acquire a small amount of crude oil from a > local well. I think this would be an interesting addition to my > collection, but I am concerned on how I can safely display it. > > I have been considering a laboratory acid bottle with a glass stopper > that I would seal with (hot) paraffin. > > Has anyone had experience with long term storage/display of samples of > crude oil that can suggest something better? > > My key concerns are spilling or evaporation -- is there something else I > should be concerned with? The display case will be fairly constant room > temperature (70 F), but might vary between 50 and 90 F. I would like to > avoid having the area smell like an oil well. > > Thanks for your suggestions! > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 1 16:36:54 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 1 18:18:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] new rockhound with question References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> Message-ID: <436808F3.7EC4@Tomaszewski.net> Missy, Mineral 'flats' are cardboard boxes (with tops) about 12 x 16 x 4 that hold standard sizes of mineral display boxes. I think Denver Box is the biggest supplier. You can make your own a lot cheaper by cutting off the bottom four inches of cardboard boxes picked up at the grocery store. Beer and soft drinks also are shipped in flat boxes that work. One common storage for beginning rock collections is egg cartons. Each will hold a dozen small specimens, and you can put the labels inside the cover (and on the outside of the cover). Another fairly cheap solution is to use 1x3 lumber and build wall mounted shelving that fits behind a door. Two side rails, with board shelves between spaced every 4 to 6 inches vertically, like a mini-bookcase. When the door is open and against the wall it hides the shelving. Kreigh Shane & Missy Kesterke wrote: > > Hi, I recently started learning about rocks/minerals/fossils etc and have a > couple questions. Forgive me if they are silly, but believe me, I start with > no background in this area. First, what kind of display container is good to > use. So far I have specimens everywhere from our vehicles, to the kitchen, > to my bedroom closet (those are the special ones) : ) I would like a small > case-type container to put the ones I have identified in, where they can be > covered to keep dust out. > > My other question is...I went to Lolo Pass in Montana and collected a few > small quartz cyrstals a few weeks ago. Is there some way to get them out of > the rock they came in? The ones I gently tried to hammer out, broke. > Thanks for any input. > Missy > Montana > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pbhewitt at comcast.net Tue Nov 1 18:55:06 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Tue Nov 1 18:58:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral id tools References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> <436808F3.7EC4@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001001c5df58$d5c5bff0$6401a8c0@maingear> Let me start by saying that I am something of a novice when it comes to mineral identification. I can recognize common minerals like quartz and feldspar and a bunch of others that I either own or have seen enough of to know what it is. I have some material that I can't identify and I am unsure how to identify it. Some pieces are too small or too fragile to get a decent streak or hardness test. Others have streak and hardness in common with a dozen other minerals and sometimes they even look alike. Here is an example. I found a gemmy green mineral on a kyanite bearing chunk of quartz from Prospect Park, Pa. I have been going there for years and this is the first time I have found anything like it. I looked up the location (Ridley Township) at mindat.com and there are several minerals listed that LOOK close like beryl, apatite, and even tourmaline. How hard can it be to get a positive id? Scratching my head in Marietta, Paul From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 1 20:25:56 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 1 20:20:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral id tools References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> <436808F3.7EC4@Tomaszewski.net> <001001c5df58$d5c5bff0$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <43683E87.5A88@Tomaszewski.net> Paul, Mineral identification is usually a process of elimination. Hardness, streak, luster, habit, etc., all help limit the number of possible minerals. Location is a great help in most cases because the latest find probably has been found before. In most cases a few tests come down to one known mineral. But sometimes something new is found at a well known location. And very occasionally something unknown is found, and the finder gets to name a new mineral. But that would involve lab analysis and publication of the results. Can you give us more details, like hardness, streak, luster, habit, crystal form, and a link to a picture, that might help identify what you have found? Kreigh Paul wrote: > > Let me start by saying that I am something of a novice when it comes to > mineral identification. I can recognize common minerals like quartz and > feldspar and a bunch of others that I either own or have seen enough of to > know what it is. I have some material that I can't identify and I am unsure > how to identify it. Some pieces are too small or too fragile to get a > decent streak or hardness test. Others have streak and hardness in common > with a dozen other minerals and sometimes they even look alike. Here is an > example. I found a gemmy green mineral on a kyanite bearing chunk of quartz > from Prospect Park, Pa. I have been going there for years and this is the > first time I have found anything like it. I looked up the location (Ridley > Township) at mindat.com and there are several minerals listed that LOOK > close like beryl, apatite, and even tourmaline. How hard can it be to get a > positive id? > > Scratching my head in Marietta, Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Tue Nov 1 07:39:07 2005 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Wed Nov 2 07:48:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How is untreated Bisbee Turquoise rough References: <200510250103.j9P13uav024940@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <004601c5d99f$71a8c300$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <43678C1B.EADA270C@gmx.de> Hello, in Handbook of Mineralogy, vol. IV (2000), the only analysis is from Lynch Station, too. In addition the authors give a reference which may be useful to find old references: Pogue, J.E. (1915), The Turquois, a study of its history, mineralogy, geology, ethnology, archaeology, mythology, folklore, and technology. Nat. Acad. of Sci. Mem., 12, part 2, 207 pp. Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany Rock Currier schrieb: > I have always been curious about turquoise. It is really a rather loose term > that is used to describe a number of minerals or mixtures of minerals. And, > there are many treatments used to make turquoise look better than it does in > its natural state. Gene Foord did some work on turquoise and found that a > lot of it was not turquoise, if you define turquoise as the triclinic copper > aluminum phosphate mineral that forms a series with chalcosiderite. From pbhewitt at comcast.net Wed Nov 2 08:13:56 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Wed Nov 2 08:16:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral id tools References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines><436808F3.7EC4@Tomaszewski.net><001001c5df58$d5c5bff0$6401a8c0@maingear> <43683E87.5A88@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <00b601c5dfc8$6e25c730$6401a8c0@maingear> Okay, I will give this a shot and supply as much info as I can. The material is too small to get an accurate hardness test. I tried holding it in a soft-jawed vise but it shattered. Same with the streak test. When I dragged it across the plate it shattered though the streak looked clear or white. Location was Prospect Park, Pa. Color is light green and luster is vitreous (like quartz) Crystal structure is unknown. Not sure what habit means ... but material is found inside quartz. Sometimes it is a coating that looks like moss and other times it is several mms thick. If I did it right specific gravity is 4.35-4.50. Two photos of the material: www.paulsminerals.com/green/green.jpg shows loose material that broke apart while removing it from the quartz. Notice the kyanite blade in the upper left hand piece. www.paulsminerals.com/green/green2.jpg shows material in the quartz with kyanite. It is an extreme closeup but you can see the green parts and kyanite in this one too. Hope this helps! Paul in Marietta > Paul, > > Mineral identification is usually a process of elimination. Hardness, > streak, luster, habit, etc., all help limit the number of possible > minerals. Location is a great help in most cases because the latest find > probably has been found before. In most cases a few tests come down to > one known mineral. > > But sometimes something new is found at a well known location. > > And very occasionally something unknown is found, and the finder gets to > name a new mineral. But that would involve lab analysis and publication > of the results. > > Can you give us more details, like hardness, streak, luster, habit, > crystal form, and a link to a picture, that might help identify what you > have found? > > Kreigh > > From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Wed Nov 2 08:38:12 2005 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Wed Nov 2 08:38:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Labels for specimens References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines><436808F3.7EC4@Tomaszewski.net><001001c5df58$d5c5bff0$6401a8c0@maingear><43683E87.5A88@Tomaszewski.net> <00b601c5dfc8$6e25c730$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <000601c5dfcb$d16f13c0$a9defea9@TOSHIBA> Hi all. Does someone know a suplier of small round labels? Hama produces some (ref. 1963), but limited to the number 1000, and I need at least 5000 or 8000, some duplicated, ie, with the same number. Regards. Armando From lanny at lrream.com Wed Nov 2 09:25:41 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Nov 2 09:24:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] new rockhound with question In-Reply-To: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> Message-ID: <7f58175bf63b748cafdf8ca652b789a6@lrream.com> Hi Missy, This weekend (4th to 6th) is the Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous in Bozeman. If you and Shane can make it over there, it would be a great place to talk with other mineral collectors and get some direct answers to your questions. Bring along your Lolo specimens and ask others what they think about trimming them up. The Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous is an annual gathering of a loosely organized group with no meetings, no official members, no officers and none of that stuff that gets in the way of simply enjoying minerals and having a good time talking about minerals. The Rendezvous is held in a different city each year (rotates between Butte, Helena, Missoula, Bozeman and occasionally Billings or northern Idaho). The meeting consists of an informal gathering at someone's house to talk about minerals on Friday, an all day gathering on Saturday with displays, speakers, buying and selling and a whole lot of talking minerals and sharing information. On Sunday there is usually a field trip; this year, due to the lateness of the Rendezvous (usually it's in October) and the snow falling on the mountains, it will probably be to the Museum of the Rockies instead of out in the field. I realize this is short notice, but if you are interested, email me directly and I'll provide contact information (there is no fee or registration, except for the Saturday dinner if you would like to attend that - $15). This information is also extended to everyone else, you are all welcome: email me at-- lanny@lrream.com. Regards, Lanny On Nov 1, 2005, at 6:46 AM, Shane & Missy Kesterke wrote: > Hi, I recently started learning about rocks/minerals/fossils etc and > have a couple questions. Forgive me if they are silly, but believe me, > I start with no background in this area. First, what kind of display > container is good to use. So far I have specimens everywhere from our > vehicles, to the kitchen, to my bedroom closet (those are the special > ones) : ) I would like a small case-type container to put the ones I > have identified in, where they can be covered to keep dust out. > > My other question is...I went to Lolo Pass in Montana and collected a > few small quartz cyrstals a few weeks ago. Is there some way to get > them out of the rock they came in? The ones I gently tried to hammer > out, broke. > Thanks for any input. > Missy > Montana > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Nov 2 09:36:34 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Nov 2 09:36:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] turquoise analyses Message-ID: <110220051736.9863.4368F9220003C84100002687215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I found a really good website about turquoise (and mining) from Cerrillos, New Mexico, which also has info about turquoise in general. It's at, http://www.cerrilloshills.org/mines/ linked to it is a page referencing analyses of turquoise, http://www.cerrilloshills.org/mines/turq03.htm Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from Juergen Wachsmuth : -------------- > Hello, > > in Handbook of Mineralogy, vol. IV (2000), the only analysis is from Lynch > Station, too. > > In addition the authors give a reference which may be useful to find old > references: Pogue, J.E. (1915), The Turquois, a study of its history, > mineralogy, geology, ethnology, archaeology, mythology, folklore, and > technology. Nat. Acad. of Sci. Mem., 12, part 2, 207 pp. > > Regards, > Jürgen Wachsmuth > Ulm - Germany > > Rock Currier schrieb: > > > I have always been curious about turquoise. It is really a rather loose term > > that is used to describe a number of minerals or mixtures of minerals. And, > > there are many treatments used to make turquoise look better than it does in > > its natural state. Gene Foord did some work on turquoise and found that a > > lot of it was not turquoise, if you define turquoise as the triclinic copper > > aluminum phosphate mineral that forms a series with chalcosiderite. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com Wed Nov 2 10:43:48 2005 From: scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com (Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals) Date: Wed Nov 2 10:42:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Awesome Alabama & Arkansas Collecting Trip Report- References: <20051030023426.50993.qmail@web32211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <037f01c5dfdd$5d762f00$5b1bc93f@gbm> Hello All Fellow Collectors, I have just published a great field trip report on my web site about my 11-day collecting trip to Alabama and Arkansas- http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Collecting%20Reports/Oct%202005%20Alabama%20Arkansas%20Trip%20Report/Alabama%20Arkansas%20Trip%202005.htm All the best! Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals www.greatbasinminerals.com scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com From bobl at peaktopeak.com Wed Nov 2 13:08:56 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Nov 2 13:08:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Awesome Alabama & Arkansas Collecting Trip Report- In-Reply-To: <037f01c5dfdd$5d762f00$5b1bc93f@gbm> Message-ID: <200511022108.jA2L8uQZ020526@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hey Scott (and list), That natrolite specimen is awesome! Great pics and report! Keep 'em coming! Bob Loeffler BobL@peaktopeak.com Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/index.php Dealer Chairman and Webmaster Denver Gem and Mineral Show http://www.DenverMineralShow.com Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/colorado/index.php -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:44 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Awesome Alabama & Arkansas Collecting Trip Report- Hello All Fellow Collectors, I have just published a great field trip report on my web site about my 11-day collecting trip to Alabama and Arkansas- http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Collecting%20Reports/Oct%202005%20Alabama% 20Arkansas%20Trip%20Report/Alabama%20Arkansas%20Trip%202005.htm All the best! Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals www.greatbasinminerals.com scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Nov 2 13:26:40 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Nov 2 13:26:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Awesome Alabama & Arkansas Collecting Trip Report- In-Reply-To: <037f01c5dfdd$5d762f00$5b1bc93f@gbm> Message-ID: Terrific report! Great pics. Thank you for sharing. This is a great example of what a trip report should be! AUsome! Glenn From: "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" <scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com> Subject: [Rockhounds] Awesome Alabama & Arkansas Collecting Trip Report- Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 10:43:48 -0800 Hello All Fellow Collectors, I have just published a great field trip report on my web site about my 11-day collecting trip to Alabama and Arkansas- Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals www.greatbasinminerals.com scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com Wed Nov 2 14:17:01 2005 From: scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com (Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals) Date: Wed Nov 2 14:15:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Awesome Alabama & Arkansas Collecting Trip Report- References: Message-ID: <040b01c5dffb$2b6baf30$5b1bc93f@gbm> Thanks Glenn, Thanks Bob! I appreciate your positive input on my collecting trip report. I really had a great time! Again, if anyone needs the link- http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Collecting%20Reports/Oct%202005%20Alabama%20Arkansas%20Trip%20Report/Alabama%20Arkansas%20Trip%202005.htm All the best! Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals www.greatbasinminerals.com scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Awesome Alabama & Arkansas Collecting Trip Report- > Terrific report! Great pics. Thank you for sharing. > > This is a great example of what a trip report should be! > > AUsome! > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > > > > > From: "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" <scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com> > Subject: > [Rockhounds] Awesome Alabama & Arkansas Collecting Trip Report- > > Date: > Wed, 2 Nov 2005 10:43:48 -0800 > > Hello All Fellow Collectors, > > I have just published a great field trip report on my web site about my > 11-day collecting trip to Alabama and Arkansas- > > Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals > > www.greatbasinminerals.com > > > scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bj9709 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 2 18:12:08 2005 From: bj9709 at yahoo.com (Brett Allen Johnson) Date: Wed Nov 2 18:12:11 2005 Subject: [RockHounds] Oxnard Gem & Mineral Show In-Reply-To: <200511030204.jA324KBf007226@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20051103021208.7342.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Come and Check Out Our Show Oxnard Gem & Mineral Society 36th Annual Gem Galaxy of Gems Show It will be held November 5th & 6th, from 10:00 until 5:00 on Saturday and 10:00 to 4:00 on Sunday. Admission is FREE. Parking is FREE. Becoming a Rockhound, Priceless! This will be held at The Oxnard Performing Arts Center; 800 Hobson Way, Oxnard, California. There will be over 60 quality display containing gems, mineral, fossils, silverwork, jewelry, beadwork, sculpture, and much more. There will be many dealers with a variety of merchandise from tools and rough material to finished jewelry and how-to books. We have demonstrators to show you how to do lapidary work, make beads, spheres and silverwork. There are games, a silent auction, plants, books and a country store. See Attached Flier for Map Thanks, Brett FTC-OGMS __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/msword --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 2 19:06:06 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 2 18:58:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral id tools References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines><436808F3.7EC4@Tomaszewski.net><001001c5df58$d5c5bff0$6401a8c0@maingear> <43683E87.5A88@Tomaszewski.net> <00b601c5dfc8$6e25c730$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <43697CB7.163F@Tomaszewski.net> Paul, Doing some searches on the location gives Almandine, Kyanite, Sillmanite, Microcline, and Andalusite as known minerals. Kyanite can be green. It is often associated with garnet, biotite, staurolite, quartz, andalusite, sillmanite, and corundum. Only garnet comes close to the density you found. Habit is the crystal form(s) a mineral is typically found in. You might be able to find a small crystal with recognizable form using a good hand lens. Crystal form is an excellent starting point for an identification. Clear streak could be andalusite or sillmanite. White streak could be kyanite. You might be able to test hardness by scraping one of the small bits across test minerals. Kyanite has two hardnesses depending on crystal orientation -- 4.5 with the crystal, 6.5 across the crystal. Set the bit on your test mineral, put your finger over it, drag it one direction, then drag it at right angles, without lifting your finger or letting off the pressure. If you test on apatite, and it is kyanite, only one of the directions should scratch. The pictures didn't help much, but that is not unusual. It is hard to identify minerals from pictures. But pictures can call to mind something you are familiar with or give clues to crystal structure or show cleavage. Maybe someone else on the list will go 'aha' at seeing them. I think your best bet is to take a specimen to a local expert such as the local rock club, a geology department at a local college, a local rock shop, or maybe an earth science teacher at a local high school. Have someone with local experience look at it personally. But I hope you also see how I tried to narrow down the possible minerals to a small set, and then tried to match them up to what was known. My overall impression is either green kyanite or microcline, but the association with quartz (and/or almandine) brings in chlorite as a reasonable possibility (streak colorless), especially since you mention it is included in quartz, or on the surface, as a mossy form. You should be able to find a local rock club at http://www.amfed.org, and I'm sure they would be glad to have you join them for a meeting or more. Most clubs have an expert on the local collecting locations that can usually identify just about anything local just by glancing at it. I wish I could give you a better answer. But it was fun trying, and I learned something new about a location I was previously unaware of. Kreigh P.S., When you do get it identified, please let us know what it is. Paul wrote: > > Okay, > > I will give this a shot and supply as much info as I can. > > The material is too small to get an accurate hardness test. I tried holding > it in a soft-jawed vise but it shattered. > Same with the streak test. When I dragged it across the plate it shattered > though the streak looked clear or white. > Location was Prospect Park, Pa. > Color is light green and luster is vitreous (like quartz) > Crystal structure is unknown. > Not sure what habit means ... but material is found inside quartz. > Sometimes it is a coating that looks like moss and other times it is several > mms thick. > If I did it right specific gravity is 4.35-4.50. > Two photos of the material: > www.paulsminerals.com/green/green.jpg shows loose material that broke apart > while removing it from the quartz. Notice the kyanite blade in the upper > left hand piece. > www.paulsminerals.com/green/green2.jpg shows material in the quartz with > kyanite. It is an extreme closeup but you can see the green parts and > kyanite in this one too. > > Hope this helps! > > Paul in Marietta > > > Paul, > > > > Mineral identification is usually a process of elimination. Hardness, > > streak, luster, habit, etc., all help limit the number of possible > > minerals. Location is a great help in most cases because the latest find > > probably has been found before. In most cases a few tests come down to > > one known mineral. > > > > But sometimes something new is found at a well known location. > > > > And very occasionally something unknown is found, and the finder gets to > > name a new mineral. But that would involve lab analysis and publication > > of the results. > > > > Can you give us more details, like hardness, streak, luster, habit, > > crystal form, and a link to a picture, that might help identify what you > > have found? > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 2 19:23:24 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 2 19:15:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Labels for specimens References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines><436808F3.7EC4@Tomaszewski.net><001001c5df58$d5c5bff0$6401a8c0@maingear><43683E87.5A88@Tomaszewski.net> <00b601c5dfc8$6e25c730$6401a8c0@maingear> <000601c5dfcb$d16f13c0$a9defea9@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <436980C2.2918@Tomaszewski.net> Armando Afonso wrote: > > Hi all. > Does someone know a suplier of small round labels? > Hama produces some (ref. 1963), but limited to the number 1000, and I need > at least 5000 or 8000, some duplicated, ie, with the same number. > Regards. > Armando Armando, Avery Labels has a number of sizes of small round blank labels in sheets you can feed thru your printer and number yourself. Other manufacturers also have similar label sheets. I have a WORD file for download on my website (in the article on cataloging specimens) with numbers from 0000 to 9999. It should not be difficult to reformat my WORD file to fit your label of choice and print your own. And you could duplicate any number as many times as you wanted. Kreigh From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Nov 2 19:55:26 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Nov 2 19:40:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Housing your speicmens, References: <200511020204.jA223xQK020627@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <021301c5e02a$6cd98490$6901a8c0@rock3> Missy, The kind of display or storage facility you should find for your specimens should to some extent depend on how valuable they are. If they are all self collected, the chances are that they are of little value and you should not spend much money on housing them. Before you store them anywhere, you should make lables for them. The reason for this is that specimens without labels have little or no value. You might consider making at least locality labels for them and gluing the labels right on the specimen. If you also can include the name or what the minerals/fossils are as well, so much the better. The locality is much more important than what the specimen is. You can always find out through testing what the mineral is, but there are few if any tests that will tell you what the locality is. If the specimen is not worth making a label for it is probably not worth finding a storage place for it. What generally happens to collections that do not have labels on them and are not stored in a systematic fashion is that they get dirty, then they get broken and being dirty and broken they are thrown out in the trash. This has been the fate of most mineral specimens. If you collected them, only you know the particulars about the specimen. Once you are gone they are "all those rocks that crazy aunt Missy used to haul home." "What should we do with em? They aint worth nuthen!", "Throw em out." If on the other hand each one is carefully labeled and placed each in its own little box in a high quality set of roller bearing drawers in a beautifully finished hardwood cabinet even if the specimens "aint worth nuthen" , they will look like they may be worth a lot to someone who doesn't know about specimens and the chances of them being saved rather than thrown out will be a lot higher. If you can't bother to make labels for your specimens you may just as well throw them out now rather than put them in a cardboard box to be thrown out 50 years from now. I went off on this rant perhaps having made the false assumption that you do not have labels for your specimens. If I have, please accept my apologies. Perhaps this admonition, with luck, will fall on fertile ground elsewhere. Many collectors and dealers house their excess specimens in "flats". Historically they were beer flats. Every liqueur store would get their beer in cardboard boxes that would contain 24 cans or bottles of beer. The store would use a box cutter and cut around the box and lift off the top off. The boxes would then be thrown out in the dumpster from which frugal collectors would retrieve them. Some of the beer boxes were a little larger than the others and if you worked it right you could use the slightly larger boxes to make tops for the slightly smaller boxes. Every collector/dealer had their own favorite combination. The packaging of beer has changed some and now collectors/dealers use cardboard flats which have been specifically designed to hold specimens. They are very similar in size to the old beer flats but you can buy them in different heights to accommodate smaller or larger specimens. They have become a standard in the hobby/industry. When you go to any gem and mineral show, you will see them all over and used by almost every specimen dealer. In these boxes are little boxes of different sizes that hold the individual specimens. The smaller boxes that hold the specimens are generally of two types. The cheaper fold up type and the more expensive pasteboard boxes that are usually white that come with a top and a piece of cotton padding. Using these cardboard flats and paper boxes are probably the cheapest way to house specimens other than using old news paper to wrap your specimens up and putting them in scavenged cardboard boxes. The flats also have the virtue of protecting the specimens from dust and the little interior boxes protect the specimens from banging into one another. You are also able to view the specimens by lifting off the lid. They also stack easily and you can label the ends of the flats with what is in them so that you can tell by looking at the stack what is in each box. How much do you want to spend on housing your collection? How good are your specimens? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Wed Nov 2 19:43:10 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Wed Nov 2 19:44:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Hill References: <200511020204.jA223xQK020627@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <021301c5e02a$6cd98490$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <01f601c5e028$b88ae070$6401a8c0@maingear> Can anyone on the list give me directions to a place called Mineral Hill in Delaware County, Pa? Paul in Marietta From jonee at epix.net Wed Nov 2 20:33:22 2005 From: jonee at epix.net (E.L. Jones) Date: Wed Nov 2 20:33:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral id tools In-Reply-To: <43697CB7.163F@Tomaszewski.net> References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines><436808F3.7EC4@Tomaszewski.net><001001c5df58$d5c5bff0$6401a8c0@maingear> <43683E87.5A88@Tomaszewski.net> <00b601c5dfc8$6e25c730$6401a8c0@maingear> <43697CB7.163F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <43699312.9040308@epix.net> I have found similar but translucent green material from this location and in my mind, it resembles beryl more than anything else arounbd there-- beryl is documented from a site a few miles away. It is found in larger complete opaque through transparent. Inquire at the Philly Academy of Science, or Rutgers has a amateur friendly Geology department. Gary at Gary's Gem Garden is active with the Delaware Valley Earth Society(DVESS) at DEVSS.org(?). He is in Cherry Hill, NJ and might be able to refer you to a local expert. As a side, some major early American mineralogy was conducted in Philly. There are no less than 20 pegmatite locations to the west south west. There is even an exposure or three of the Franklin Marble of Franklin New Jersey fame. This area is a very old igneous basement system that is very different from the rest of Pennsylvania's largely sedimentary systems. I am still trying to find the exact location of "Mineral Hill" which was frequently discussed in early mineralogy papers. I understand that when you were invited in the mineral society branch of the Academy of Science there you had really made the big time. Elton Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >Paul, > >Doing some searches on the location gives Almandine, Kyanite, >Sillmanite, Microcline, and Andalusite as known minerals. > > >You should be able to find a local rock club at http://www.amfed.org, >and I'm sure they would be glad to have you join them for a meeting ormore. Most clubs have an expert on the local collecting locations that can usually identify just about anything local just by glancing at it. > > > From wolflady at blackfoot.net Wed Nov 2 21:45:17 2005 From: wolflady at blackfoot.net (Shane & Missy Kesterke) Date: Wed Nov 2 21:45:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] new rockhound with question References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> <4367982E.1060006@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <03df01c5e039$c5c44860$6600a8c0@Emachines> Thanks all for the good tips/advice. Hey John, thanks for the encouraging words about my quartz "find". However, I think what I have found is probably the junk that someone more knowledgeable threw away. The crystals are few and small...well, all except that really nice big one that I broke trying to get it out of it's matrix (new word for me). Thanks for the input. I hope to get back to Lolo after the snow melts to do some serious searching....maybe I can get some tips from you as to where to find them? Or aren't you supposed to give out that sort of info? : ) Missy ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] new rockhound with question > Hi Missy, > > There are lots of different ways to go regarding displays. Many will > depend on your budget. There's everything from glass wall and floor > display cases (rejects from closing stores can sometimes be inexpensively > had) to pull out old dresser drawers. There are handy types of displays > for holding your single crystals (check out Riker displays) to larger > display's for bigger specimens. Just a couple thoughts. > > Now, for your Lolo Pass comments... Lolo Pass is a great place to discover > treasure and one which I very much enjoying digging myself. The From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Nov 3 03:18:54 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Nov 3 03:10:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Round labels References: <200511030204.jA324KBj007226@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001001c5e068$60cc4eb0$36e3a5d8@rock5> Armando Perhaps you could be a little more specific in what you need in the way of labels. What are they for, gluing on specimens? Do you need these labels to have sequential numbers on them? Do they need to have sticky backs? Do they really need to be round? I have a little program where I can print out sequential numbers with letters as a suffix and or prefix like RHC441, RHC442 etc but they would only be on plane paper. I would be glad to make them for you but they would not have sticky backs. Any particular font, font size, color or style you prefer? Do you want or need a border around them? Exactly how many of what range of numbers do you want? All of these things the program does easily and very quickly. What numbers do you need duplicates of and how many? Rock From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Nov 3 03:40:15 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Nov 3 03:31:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Turquoise References: <200511030204.jA324KBj007226@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001401c5e06b$5bfd3310$36e3a5d8@rock5> Pete, That was a good reference on the Cerrillos hills turquoise. It would appear that the turquoise from that locality is definitely turquoise. I think I am going to try and chase down if the Iranian stuff really is turquoise. Rock From info at demineralia.com Thu Nov 3 05:44:10 2005 From: info at demineralia.com (info@demineralia.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 05:44:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: update Message-ID: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> hi all, we have posted several new specimens directly from the MINERALIENTAGE MUNCHEN 2005. Come to visit us at www.demineralia.com you'll find good and well selected specimens! thank you very much, best regards, Emanuele Marini www.demineralia.com From pbhewitt at comcast.net Thu Nov 3 07:08:02 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Thu Nov 3 07:08:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral id tools References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines><436808F3.7EC4@Tomaszewski.net><001001c5df58$d5c5bff0$6401a8c0@maingear><43683E87.5A88@Tomaszewski.net><00b601c5dfc8$6e25c730$6401a8c0@maingear> <43697CB7.163F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <025b01c5e088$62c26bd0$6401a8c0@maingear> Kreigh and Elton, Thank you both for your excellent help and suggestions. I am always learning new things in this hobby and this list has always been an important resource even though I mostly lurk. I will endeavor to persevere (great line from Outlaw Josey Wales) and I am determined to identify the green stuff. I know Gary at the Gem Garden. I used to live just a few miles from there and I have bought tumblers and grit and rough material from him on many occasions. I have family in that area still so a trip to Rutgers would be a good excuse to visit them also. Paul in Marietta --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Thu Nov 3 07:09:49 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 07:10:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Hill In-Reply-To: <01f601c5e028$b88ae070$6401a8c0@maingear> References: <200511020204.jA223xQK020627@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <021301c5e02a$6cd98490$6901a8c0@rock3> <01f601c5e028$b88ae070$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <8C7AE9FC497D0A1-1A24-2F09@MBLK-M08.sysops.aol.com> Hi Paul,, Mineral Hill, is near Media, Pennsylvania. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Paul To: Rock Currier ; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 22:43:10 -0500 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Hill Can anyone on the list give me directions to a place called Mineral Hill in Delaware County, Pa? Paul in Marietta _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Thu Nov 3 07:10:17 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 3 07:10:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: update In-Reply-To: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> References: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051103070609.028ff508@orerockon.com> Is this list now a forum for advertisers who have nothing of substance to contribute? I had thought that the rules for participation on this list were that you had to post some messages with content relevant to the topic of discussion, mainly rockhounding, in addition to your ads (which, if I am not mistaken, I have seen the exact same ad below posted at least 5 times over the past few months). Perhaps I am mistaken...and perhaps this person has posted a message with relevant content, so if I am wrong, by all means, please enlighten me... At 05:44 AM 11/3/2005, you wrote: >hi all, >we have posted several new specimens directly from the >MINERALIENTAGE MUNCHEN 2005. Come to visit us at www.demineralia.com >you'll find good and well selected specimens! >thank you very much, best regards, >Emanuele Marini >www.demineralia.com Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From info at demineralia.com Thu Nov 3 07:50:22 2005 From: info at demineralia.com (info@demineralia.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 07:50:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: AD: update In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051103070609.028ff508@orerockon.com> References: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> <6.2.5.3.2.20051103070609.028ff508@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <20051103155022.19420.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> Tim Fisher Scrive: Hi Tim, nice to know you. Some months ago someone of the list wrote to me: "Please note that when you place an advertisement or update to the Rockhounds list you should put [AD] in the Subject line so that people can skip or delete if they wish. If you put '[AD] Update" then it will be quite clear...if you look at http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html there are guidelines for the use of this list, and they include that ads should be limited to 2 or 3 per month." 1-In my object line there was the [AD], so it was clearly an update, and you could del my mail, but you didn't... 2-I'm sending AD mail only once a Month, not 2 or 3 as it is written in the list-rules... If i disturbed you, I'm sorry, but next month please del my AD mail. Thank you so much, best regards. Emanuele > Is this list now a forum for advertisers who have nothing of substance to > contribute? I had thought that the rules for participation on this list > were that you had to post some messages with content relevant to the topic > of discussion, mainly rockhounding, in addition to your ads (which, if I > am not mistaken, I have seen the exact same ad below posted at least 5 > times over the past few months). Perhaps I am mistaken...and perhaps this > person has posted a message with relevant content, so if I am wrong, by > all means, please enlighten me... > > At 05:44 AM 11/3/2005, you wrote: > >> hi all, >> we have posted several new specimens directly from the MINERALIENTAGE >> MUNCHEN 2005. Come to visit us at www.demineralia.com >> you'll find good and well selected specimens! >> thank you very much, best regards, >> Emanuele Marini >> www.demineralia.com > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Nov 3 08:14:56 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Nov 3 08:15:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] new rockhound with question In-Reply-To: <03df01c5e039$c5c44860$6600a8c0@Emachines> References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> <4367982E.1060006@tenforward.com> <03df01c5e039$c5c44860$6600a8c0@Emachines> Message-ID: <436A3780.4080808@tenforward.com> Hi Missy, Your welcome. There were sure some good ideas that came out from your questions. If you can, you should very much consider following up Lanny on his Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous invitation. This is a great event and one which I hate to miss each year (I live just a wee bit too far away in Washington State). Lots of really great people and awesome field collectors! And the accumulated knowledge in the group... just tops! And while this may be a bit intimidating, don't worry, jump on in! I know both you and Shane would be made welcome... and, your questions too! As a last thought, you may consider searching through the archives here, we've talked about Lolo on several other occasions and there has been some great info. passed on. Just my thoughts. All the very best, John Shane & Missy Kesterke wrote: > Thanks all for the good tips/advice. Hey John, thanks for the > encouraging words about my quartz "find". However, I think what I have > found is probably the junk that someone more knowledgeable threw away. > The crystals are few and small...well, all except that really nice big > one that I broke trying to get it out of it's matrix (new word for > me). Thanks for the input. I hope to get back to Lolo after the snow > melts to do some serious searching....maybe I can get some tips from > you as to where to find them? Or aren't you supposed to give out that > sort of info? : ) > Missy > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:30 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] new rockhound with question > > >> Hi Missy, >> >> There are lots of different ways to go regarding displays. Many will >> depend on your budget. There's everything from glass wall and floor >> display cases (rejects from closing stores can sometimes be >> inexpensively had) to pull out old dresser drawers. There are handy >> types of displays for holding your single crystals (check out Riker >> displays) to larger display's for bigger specimens. Just a couple >> thoughts. >> >> Now, for your Lolo Pass comments... Lolo Pass is a great place to >> discover treasure and one which I very much enjoying digging myself. The > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Thu Nov 3 08:20:51 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 3 08:21:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: AD: update In-Reply-To: <20051103155022.19420.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> References: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> <6.2.5.3.2.20051103070609.028ff508@orerockon.com> <20051103155022.19420.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051103081242.026e62e0@orerockon.com> As far as I can recall, you have only ever posted ads to the list. Please correct me if I am wrong. The list is a discussion forum for rockhounds and rockhounding; it is not, was never, and is not intended to ever be, solely a forum for advertising. There are many, many lists and sites on the internet where you can post ads, and only post ads; if that is your only reason for being on the list, I suggest you find a better place to post your ads. Your response below reveals your intent on only posting ads to the rockhounds discussion list, since you did not address my only issue with your posts, namely that I have never seen any substantive contribution by you to the topic of rockhounding, nor any other topic discussed on the list. I have no issue with either the frequency or the content of your ads. I too post ads to the list. I also post responses, questions, and generally participate in list discussions, in fact for every 100 posts I make to the list you are lucky if you can find one advertisement. At 07:50 AM 11/3/2005, you wrote: >Tim Fisher Scrive: >Hi Tim, nice to know you. >Some months ago someone of the list wrote to me: >"Please note that when you place an advertisement or update to the >Rockhounds list you should put [AD] in the Subject line so that >people can skip or delete if they wish. If you put '[AD] Update" >then it will be quite clear...if you look >at http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html >there are guidelines for the use of this list, and they include that >ads should be limited to 2 or 3 per month." >1-In my object line there was the [AD], so it was clearly an update, >and you could del my mail, but you didn't... >2-I'm sending AD mail only once a Month, not 2 or 3 as it is written >in the list-rules... >If i disturbed you, I'm sorry, but next month please del my AD mail. >Thank you so much, >best regards. >Emanuele > >>Is this list now a forum for advertisers who have nothing of >>substance to contribute? I had thought that the rules for >>participation on this list were that you had to post some messages >>with content relevant to the topic of discussion, mainly >>rockhounding, in addition to your ads (which, if I am not mistaken, >>I have seen the exact same ad below posted at least 5 times over >>the past few months). Perhaps I am mistaken...and perhaps this >>person has posted a message with relevant content, so if I am >>wrong, by all means, please enlighten me... >>At 05:44 AM 11/3/2005, you wrote: >>>hi all, >>>we have posted several new specimens directly from the >>>MINERALIENTAGE MUNCHEN 2005. Come to visit us at www.demineralia.com >>>you'll find good and well selected specimens! >>>thank you very much, best regards, >>>Emanuele Marini >>>www.demineralia.com Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From lindalnew at yahoo.com Thu Nov 3 08:24:26 2005 From: lindalnew at yahoo.com (New Linda) Date: Thu Nov 3 08:24:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Awesome Alabama & Arkansas Collecting Trip Report- In-Reply-To: <037f01c5dfdd$5d762f00$5b1bc93f@gbm> Message-ID: <20051103162426.58977.qmail@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Are any of the wonderful places you visited open to the public????? Linda New, New Orleans --- "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" wrote: > Hello All Fellow Collectors, > > I have just published a great field trip report > on my web site about my > 11-day collecting trip to Alabama and Arkansas- > > http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Collecting%20Reports/Oct%202005%20Alabama%20Arkansas%20Trip%20Report/Alabama%20Arkansas%20Trip%202005.htm > > All the best! > > Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals > www.greatbasinminerals.com > scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From kahako at verizon.net Thu Nov 3 09:51:27 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Nov 3 09:51:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD policy In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051103081242.026e62e0@orerockon.com> References: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> <6.2.5.3.2.20051103070609.028ff508@orerockon.com> <20051103155022.19420.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> <6.2.5.3.2.20051103081242.026e62e0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051103073101.0247d298@incoming.verizon.net> Greetings, The Rockhounds List rules that appear now on the website: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html do not say anything about participation for advertisers, although Aaron has commented privately to a few subscribers over the years that people who advertise should also participate in a meaningful way. The new rules which the Admin Team is going to post any day now states the following: quote: Subscribers who post ads should "pay" for ads by being a regular contributor or participating in list discussions. If your only postings to the List are ADs, you will be treated as a spammer. Thank you to everyone for being patient while the Admin Team completes the transfer to new administration. That transfer and the new rules will be announced very soon. Aloha, Kitty At 06:20 AM 11/3/2005, Tim Fisher wrote: >Is this list now a forum for advertisers who have nothing of substance to contribute? I had thought that the rules for participation on this list >were that you had to post some messages with content relevant to the topic of discussion, mainly rockhounding, in addition to your ads... From steve at stephenanderson.us Thu Nov 3 10:04:54 2005 From: steve at stephenanderson.us (Stephen Anderson) Date: Thu Nov 3 10:05:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bachman Mine, Hellertown MATULAITE Message-ID: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> Hello, I live on a piece of land in Hellertown, PA (Northampton County). I understand that the Bachman Iron Mine once occupied part of the mountainside in my woods where much rare MATULAITE has been found. Does anyone have any information regarding BACHMAN IRON MINE, or MATULAITE that they could share with me? Thanks, Steve From scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com Thu Nov 3 10:28:49 2005 From: scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com (Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals) Date: Thu Nov 3 10:27:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD policy References: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it><6.2.5.3.2.20051103070609.028ff508@orerockon.com><20051103155022.19420.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it><6.2.5.3.2.20051103081242.026e62e0@orerockon.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20051103073101.0247d298@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <00b701c5e0a4$74eb8e60$3b00a940@gbm> To Kitty, I have to say that your policies (and politics) are getting out of control. I have been a contributor to this list since it started over 10 years ago. This is a free list to everyone interested in rocks from the beginning! Don't be a "micro tyranist" and start making rules that only abide to your own special interests. I find it interesting that you, yourself will scold me for not putting "AD" on an update listing. But, you have not make a positive comment about my recent collecting trip report that so many have enjoyed?! This list is free to everyone who wants to talk rocks. So why are a few moderate "minerals for sale" ads a month per business such a bad thing? I know and have seen politics in action. The term "regular contributor" can mean whatever someone wants. You know Kitty, I haven't seen YOU post a collecting report lately??? This is what I consider to be a worthwhile posting! A Fellow Mineral Collector, Writer and Businessman, Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals www.greatbasinminerals.com scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy > Greetings, > > The Rockhounds List rules that appear now on the > website: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html > do not say anything about participation for advertisers, although Aaron has > commented privately to a few subscribers over the years that people who > advertise should also participate in a meaningful way. > > The new rules which the Admin Team is going to post any day now states the > following: > > quote: Subscribers who post ads should "pay" for ads by being a regular > contributor or participating in list discussions. If your only postings > to the List are ADs, you will be treated as a spammer. > > Thank you to everyone for being patient while the Admin Team completes the > transfer to new administration. That transfer and the new rules will be > announced very soon. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 06:20 AM 11/3/2005, Tim Fisher wrote: > > >Is this list now a forum for advertisers who have nothing of substance to > contribute? I had thought that the rules for participation on this > list >were that you had to post some messages with content relevant to the > topic of discussion, mainly rockhounding, in addition to your ads... > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Thu Nov 3 10:28:57 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 3 10:28:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD policy In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051103073101.0247d298@incoming.verizon.net> References: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> <6.2.5.3.2.20051103070609.028ff508@orerockon.com> <20051103155022.19420.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> <6.2.5.3.2.20051103081242.026e62e0@orerockon.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20051103073101.0247d298@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051103102819.026e17c0@orerockon.com> Thank you, Kitty! At 09:51 AM 11/3/2005, you wrote: >Greetings, > >The Rockhounds List rules that appear now on the >website: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html >do not say anything about participation for advertisers, although >Aaron has commented privately to a few subscribers over the years >that people who advertise should also participate in a meaningful way. > >The new rules which the Admin Team is going to post any day now >states the following: > >quote: Subscribers who post ads should "pay" for ads by being a >regular contributor or participating in list discussions. If your >only postings to the List are ADs, you will be treated as a spammer. > >Thank you to everyone for being patient while the Admin Team >completes the transfer to new administration. That transfer and the >new rules will be announced very soon. > >Aloha, Kitty Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rocknate at gmail.com Thu Nov 3 10:29:15 2005 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Thu Nov 3 10:29:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bachman Mine, Hellertown MATULAITE In-Reply-To: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> Message-ID: Steve, It appears to be a plain-looking white phosphate mineral. CaAl18(PO4)12(OH)20?28(H2O) You may want to check out the following websites that I got from a google search using MATULAITE "BACHMAN IRON MINE" http://rruff.geo.arizona.edu/doclib/am/vol65/AM65_1065.pdf http://webmineral.com/data/Matulaite.shtml http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~adg/adg-pspimages.html (has best pictures, including close-ups if you click on the photo) There are also some published references on the Bachman Mine: Bachman Mine, Hellertown, Northampton Co., Pennsylvania, USA Ref.: Rocks & Min.: 15:222; Min.Rec.: Sep-Oct 1980:311. An iron mine in phosphorus-rich ore. Ore is brecciated and mineralized Cambrian quartzite. Good luck - I hope that you find some! Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 11/3/05, Stephen Anderson wrote: > Hello, > > I live on a piece of land in Hellertown, PA (Northampton County). I > understand that the Bachman Iron Mine once occupied part of the > mountainside in my woods where much rare MATULAITE has been found. > > Does anyone have any information regarding BACHMAN IRON MINE, or > MATULAITE that they could share with me? > > Thanks, > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From calcite65 at earthlink.net Thu Nov 3 10:34:49 2005 From: calcite65 at earthlink.net (Charles Creekmur) Date: Thu Nov 3 10:34:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bachman Mine, Hellertown MATULAITE References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> Message-ID: <000201c5e0a5$47852160$6402a8c0@CHAS05951D9DC8> Steve, Go to www.mindat.org and look under the "m's" for your mineral and you will find that your Bachman Mine is the type locality for the species. Several other nice phosphates are also found there. The location should have fantastic micromount potential. Lucky you. Charles From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Nov 3 10:33:23 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Nov 3 10:35:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD policy References: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it><6.2.5.3.2.20051103070609.028ff508@orerockon.com><20051103155022.19420.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it><6.2.5.3.2.20051103081242.026e62e0@orerockon.com><6.2.1.2.0.20051103073101.0247d298@incoming.verizon.net> <00b701c5e0a4$74eb8e60$3b00a940@gbm> Message-ID: <00cf01c5e0a5$183a3260$12b4010a@warren> Scott... They are not Kitty's policies...they were developed by Kitty, Kreigh, Aaron, Carol, my husband and myself, based on obvious problems with the list. Kitty's job is to remind people about it. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy > To Kitty, > > I have to say that your policies (and politics) are getting out of > control. I have been a contributor to this list since it started over 10 > years ago. This is a free list to everyone interested in rocks from the > beginning! Don't be a "micro tyranist" and start making rules that only > abide to your own special interests. I find it interesting that you, > yourself will scold me for not putting "AD" on an update listing. But, > you > have not make a positive comment about my recent collecting trip report > that > so many have enjoyed?! This list is free to everyone who wants to talk > rocks. So why are a few moderate "minerals for sale" ads a month per > business such a bad thing? I know and have seen politics in action. The > term "regular contributor" can mean whatever someone wants. You know > Kitty, > I haven't seen YOU post a collecting report lately??? This is what I > consider to be a worthwhile posting! > > A Fellow Mineral Collector, Writer and Businessman, > > Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals > www.greatbasinminerals.com > scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy > > >> Greetings, >> >> The Rockhounds List rules that appear now on the >> website: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html >> do not say anything about participation for advertisers, although Aaron > has >> commented privately to a few subscribers over the years that people who >> advertise should also participate in a meaningful way. >> >> The new rules which the Admin Team is going to post any day now states >> the >> following: >> >> quote: Subscribers who post ads should "pay" for ads by being a regular >> contributor or participating in list discussions. If your only postings >> to the List are ADs, you will be treated as a spammer. >> >> Thank you to everyone for being patient while the Admin Team completes >> the >> transfer to new administration. That transfer and the new rules will be >> announced very soon. >> >> Aloha, Kitty >> >> >> At 06:20 AM 11/3/2005, Tim Fisher wrote: >> >> >Is this list now a forum for advertisers who have nothing of substance > to >> contribute? I had thought that the rules for participation on this >> list >were that you had to post some messages with content relevant to >> the >> topic of discussion, mainly rockhounding, in addition to your ads... >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lanny at lrream.com Thu Nov 3 10:44:11 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Nov 3 10:42:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bachman Mine, Hellertown MATULAITE In-Reply-To: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> Message-ID: <525f8de030198cbf6fe86c4e573f9517@lrream.com> Steve, Here are a few references that I found with a search on MinDex: Oswald, Delbert L., A New Phosphate Species from Pennsylvania, Rocks & Minerals, May-June, 1978, Vol. 53-3 p. 115 (with photo of Matulaite from the Bachman Iron Mine) Mitchell, Richard S., Who?s Who in Mineral Names, Margaret Mary (Buckanin) Matula (1925- ), Rocks & Minerals March-April, 1981 Vol. 56-2 p. 74-76 Barwood, Henry, FM-TGMS-MSA Symposium on Copper and Copper Minerals, Occurrence of Turquoise Group Minerals in the Eastern United States (Bachman Mine, near Hellertown, Northampton County, PA reported but not confirmed, Mineralogical Record January-February, 1997, Vol. 28-1, p. 53 Henderson, Wm. A., Jr., Mullica Hill, New Jersey, Mineralogical Record September-October 1980, Vol. 11-5, p. 307-311 (with information on the Bachman Mine, Hellertown: Beraunite, cacoxenite, cryptomelane, goethite, matulaite, turquoise, wavellite) Hope those help, Lanny On Nov 3, 2005, at 10:04 AM, Stephen Anderson wrote: > Hello, > > I live on a piece of land in Hellertown, PA (Northampton County). I > understand that the Bachman Iron Mine once occupied part of the > mountainside in my woods where much rare MATULAITE has been found. > > Does anyone have any information regarding BACHMAN IRON MINE, or > MATULAITE that they could share with me? > > Thanks, > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 3 10:43:34 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Thu Nov 3 10:43:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: AD: update References: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it><6.2.5.3.2.20051103070609.028ff508@orerockon.com><20051103155022.19420.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> <6.2.5.3.2.20051103081242.026e62e0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <001501c5e0a6$7fddea50$78f1edc1@mpc1> This thread could run and run...and get out of control. But my 6d worth is that the website in question doesn't work if you don't have cookies enabled. Which, as a matter of common security policy, I don't. So I'll never see anything other than the website banner. So, not a lot of use really. Mick From afox at drizzle.com Thu Nov 3 10:46:49 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Thu Nov 3 10:46:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD policy In-Reply-To: <00cf01c5e0a5$183a3260$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: Agreed. These policies come from a group consensus, and NOT one person. If you are upset about Rockhounds policies in general, please address them to the ENITRE team, and not one individual, especially one who has the unenviable job of trying to keep the rules intact. Aaron Fox Rockhounds Admin Team > Scott... > > They are not Kitty's policies...they were developed by Kitty, Kreigh, Aaron, > Carol, my husband and myself, based on obvious problems with the list. > > Kitty's job is to remind people about it. > > Julie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy > > > > To Kitty, > > > > I have to say that your policies (and politics) are getting out of > > control. I have been a contributor to this list since it started over 10 > > years ago. This is a free list to everyone interested in rocks from the > > beginning! Don't be a "micro tyranist" and start making rules that only > > abide to your own special interests. I find it interesting that you, > > yourself will scold me for not putting "AD" on an update listing. But, > > you > > have not make a positive comment about my recent collecting trip report > > that > > so many have enjoyed?! This list is free to everyone who wants to talk > > rocks. So why are a few moderate "minerals for sale" ads a month per > > business such a bad thing? I know and have seen politics in action. The > > term "regular contributor" can mean whatever someone wants. You know > > Kitty, > > I haven't seen YOU post a collecting report lately??? This is what I > > consider to be a worthwhile posting! > > > > A Fellow Mineral Collector, Writer and Businessman, > > > > Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals > > www.greatbasinminerals.com > > scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy > > > > > >> Greetings, > >> > >> The Rockhounds List rules that appear now on the > >> website: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html > >> do not say anything about participation for advertisers, although Aaron > > has > >> commented privately to a few subscribers over the years that people who > >> advertise should also participate in a meaningful way. > >> > >> The new rules which the Admin Team is going to post any day now states > >> the > >> following: > >> > >> quote: Subscribers who post ads should "pay" for ads by being a regular > >> contributor or participating in list discussions. If your only postings > >> to the List are ADs, you will be treated as a spammer. > >> > >> Thank you to everyone for being patient while the Admin Team completes > >> the > >> transfer to new administration. That transfer and the new rules will be > >> announced very soon. > >> > >> Aloha, Kitty > >> > >> > >> At 06:20 AM 11/3/2005, Tim Fisher wrote: > >> > >> >Is this list now a forum for advertisers who have nothing of substance > > to > >> contribute? I had thought that the rules for participation on this > >> list >were that you had to post some messages with content relevant to > >> the > >> topic of discussion, mainly rockhounding, in addition to your ads... > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox "Pluralitas non est ponda sine neccesitate" "Plurality should not be posited without necessity" -- William of Ockham (1285 - 1349 AD) From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Nov 3 10:47:28 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Nov 3 10:47:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bachman Mine, Hellertown MATULAITE In-Reply-To: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> Message-ID: <436A5B40.8060604@tenforward.com> Hi Steve, Quoting Samuel G Gordon, Mineralogy of Pennsylvania, page 220, Lower Saucon Township, Hellertown (220)... Abandoned iron ore pit, 1 mile south of the center of Hellertown, and a quarter mile east of fork of road (Allentown 9147). Cambrian quartzite; Cambro- Ordovician limestone; residual deposits of goethite. (220)... Smoky quartz crystals occur near Hellertown (Eyerman, 1889, 14); zircon crystals, 1 mile east of Hellertown (Genth, 1875, 76); and siderite and asbolite, at Wharton's mine, 3 miles from Hellertown (Eyerman, 1889, 12; 1911, 23). There was no mention of Matulaite in my reference. Quoting Jeffrey de Fourestier, Glossary of Mineral Synonyms, page 29, Asbolite = Asbolane, Yukonite I hope this helps, all the very best, John Stephen Anderson wrote: > Hello, > > I live on a piece of land in Hellertown, PA (Northampton County). I > understand that the Bachman Iron Mine once occupied part of the > mountainside in my woods where much rare MATULAITE has been found. > > Does anyone have any information regarding BACHMAN IRON MINE, or > MATULAITE that they could share with me? > > Thanks, > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Nov 3 10:50:22 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Nov 3 10:50:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bachman Mine, Hellertown MATULAITE In-Reply-To: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> Message-ID: <436A5BEE.3070206@tenforward.com> Hi again Steve, Thanks for asking your PA question, I just picked up the Gordon book days ago and had it sitting here handy beside me. I guess this makes for a good investment? Ah well, nice to put it to use so soon. See ya, John Stephen Anderson wrote: > Hello, > > I live on a piece of land in Hellertown, PA (Northampton County). I > understand that the Bachman Iron Mine once occupied part of the > mountainside in my woods where much rare MATULAITE has been found. > > Does anyone have any information regarding BACHMAN IRON MINE, or > MATULAITE that they could share with me? > > Thanks, > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From info at wisdomofstones.com Thu Nov 3 11:03:30 2005 From: info at wisdomofstones.com (wisdom of stones) Date: Thu Nov 3 11:02:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Federation groups, clubs, etc. USA In-Reply-To: <4367B3FA.4010308@verizon.net> Message-ID: Hi Don - Thanks for your response to my query. I understand completely what you're saying, appreciate your thoughts and don't necessarily disagree with you. I do however, have some beliefs about stones and the energies the earth holds, especially as it relates to physics and new scientific studies that are being done in the fields of vibrational science and medicine. I sometimes think the word "new age" and metaphysical are reaching a place of saturation and have become too terms that create more "reaction to" than "consideration around" as there is too much in this world we don't understand and open to reconsideration (if this is the right word).Am not wanting to debate my inquiry, work or my beliefs but was merely curious and interested in knowing more about the various groups, clubs, etc. I inquired about. On a separate note, my mother was an avid rockhound and while it wasn't my passion while she was alive, it was something I appreciated in a different kind of way and that has grown stronger for me since her death. This being said, I'm wondering if anyone can steer me towards some online, self-study or schools in the midwest that offer an experiential certificate or degree in geology, earth science or mineralogy. Am also curious as to the availability of any grants available for research in these areas. Thanks again for your input. kind regards, jennifer -----Original Message----- From: DonH [mailto:donhalterman@verizon.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 12:29 PM To: info@wisdomofstones.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Federation groups, clubs, etc. USA wisdom of stones wrote: > Hi - > I'm new to this list, and enjoying the discussion threads. > > I'm a licensed therapist, intuitive, teacher, writer and metaphysician. Hi, Please take this in the most helpful of tones. There is an umbrella organization for mineral clubs, the American Federation of Mineralogical Societies: http://amfed.org/ Not every club in the U.S. is affiliated with a federation, but many are. Please be aware that people's interest in rocks & minerals does not necessarily equate to an interest in metaphysics and New Age, etc. In fact, as a former officer of several federation clubs, I can tell you that there has been some debate over whether to acknowledge these things as part of our sphere of interest. One officer even dicussed making a federation-wide policy disavowing any connection between the rock & mineral hobby and spiritual uses of rocks & minerals. I'm sure you're aware that this subject can raise some serious passions. I'd suggest that, when you write to any organizations where you would like to present, you make your intentions clear and offer a sketch of what you intend to discuss. You may be ignored, you may receive some invitations to speak, and you may receive some scornful rebuffs. I'm not saying whether any of these responses are right or wrong; it is simply what you should expect. I remember one board meeting where a local rock shop owner proposed bringing in a healer to speak to the club. The proposal was literally shouted down. On the other hand, I know that some clubs embrace these topics. I hope that the sum of my experience in this matter has been useful to you, and good luck in your endeavors. Don From albalmer at att.net Thu Nov 3 11:08:33 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Nov 3 11:08:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD policy In-Reply-To: <00b701c5e0a4$74eb8e60$3b00a940@gbm> References: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it><6.2.5.3.2.20051103070609.028ff508@orerockon.com><20051103155022.19420.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it><6.2.5.3.2.20051103081242.026e62e0@orerockon.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20051103073101.0247d298@incoming.verizon.net> <00b701c5e0a4$74eb8e60$3b00a940@gbm> Message-ID: <436A6031.6040500@att.net> Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals wrote: > To Kitty, > > I have to say that your policies (and politics) are getting out of > control. I won't, at this time, comment on this. But I will later. >I have been a contributor to this list since it started over 10 > years ago. This is a free list to everyone interested in rocks from the > beginning! This list is free to everyone who wants to talk > rocks. So why are a few moderate "minerals for sale" ads a month per > business such a bad thing? I will comment here, though, to say that the person in question apparently doesn't want to talk about rocks, he only wants to post ads. In fact, I've seen no indication that he is interested in rocks, except as something to sell, and for those reasons, I think the ads in question are out of line. From agate at cox.net Thu Nov 3 11:12:04 2005 From: agate at cox.net (agate@cox.net) Date: Thu Nov 3 11:13:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD policy Message-ID: <20051103191237.RKMN2059.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> There are, in my opinion, few who contribute as much as Scott does to the forum. > > From: "Julie Siebel" > Date: 2005/11/03 Thu PM 01:33:23 EST > To: "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" , > "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy > > Scott... > > They are not Kitty's policies...they were developed by Kitty, Kreigh, Aaron, > Carol, my husband and myself, based on obvious problems with the list. > > Kitty's job is to remind people about it. > > Julie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy > > > > To Kitty, > > > > I have to say that your policies (and politics) are getting out of > > control. I have been a contributor to this list since it started over 10 > > years ago. This is a free list to everyone interested in rocks from the > > beginning! Don't be a "micro tyranist" and start making rules that only > > abide to your own special interests. I find it interesting that you, > > yourself will scold me for not putting "AD" on an update listing. But, > > you > > have not make a positive comment about my recent collecting trip report > > that > > so many have enjoyed?! This list is free to everyone who wants to talk > > rocks. So why are a few moderate "minerals for sale" ads a month per > > business such a bad thing? I know and have seen politics in action. The > > term "regular contributor" can mean whatever someone wants. You know > > Kitty, > > I haven't seen YOU post a collecting report lately??? This is what I > > consider to be a worthwhile posting! > > > > A Fellow Mineral Collector, Writer and Businessman, > > > > Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals > > www.greatbasinminerals.com > > scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy > > > > > >> Greetings, > >> > >> The Rockhounds List rules that appear now on the > >> website: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html > >> do not say anything about participation for advertisers, although Aaron > > has > >> commented privately to a few subscribers over the years that people who > >> advertise should also participate in a meaningful way. > >> > >> The new rules which the Admin Team is going to post any day now states > >> the > >> following: > >> > >> quote: Subscribers who post ads should "pay" for ads by being a regular > >> contributor or participating in list discussions. If your only postings > >> to the List are ADs, you will be treated as a spammer. > >> > >> Thank you to everyone for being patient while the Admin Team completes > >> the > >> transfer to new administration. That transfer and the new rules will be > >> announced very soon. > >> > >> Aloha, Kitty > >> > >> > >> At 06:20 AM 11/3/2005, Tim Fisher wrote: > >> > >> >Is this list now a forum for advertisers who have nothing of substance > > to > >> contribute? I had thought that the rules for participation on this > >> list >were that you had to post some messages with content relevant to > >> the > >> topic of discussion, mainly rockhounding, in addition to your ads... > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com Thu Nov 3 11:19:13 2005 From: scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com (Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals) Date: Thu Nov 3 11:17:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Awesome Alabama & Arkansas Collecting Trip Report- References: <20051103162426.58977.qmail@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00f401c5e0ab$7a7080f0$3b00a940@gbm> Dear Group, My worst fears have come to light and censorship now prevails over freedom on this group. As a contributor for the past 10 years I regret to inform all that I will not be a part of this injustice!! This group is now run by censors! So, with a deep heart I leave this list for good. If anyone still cares about what mineral collecting is all about (fun and adventure) then you know where to find me. Please unsubsribe me from this tyrany, Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals www.greatbasinminerals.com scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Nov 3 11:20:20 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Nov 3 11:21:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] AD policy References: <20051103191237.RKMN2059.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: <015501c5e0ab$a709e480$12b4010a@warren> OK, Please end this discussion for now. If you have comments when we post the new list rules, which will be very soon, we will be happy to hear them. For now, let's get back to rocks and rockhound. Julie Siebel Rockhounds List Owner ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 11:12 AM Subject: Re: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy > There are, in my opinion, few who contribute as much as Scott does to the > forum. > > >> >> From: "Julie Siebel" >> Date: 2005/11/03 Thu PM 01:33:23 EST >> To: "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" >> , >> "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy >> >> Scott... >> >> They are not Kitty's policies...they were developed by Kitty, Kreigh, >> Aaron, >> Carol, my husband and myself, based on obvious problems with the list. >> >> Kitty's job is to remind people about it. >> >> Julie >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" >> >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 10:28 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy >> >> >> > To Kitty, >> > >> > I have to say that your policies (and politics) are getting out of >> > control. I have been a contributor to this list since it started over >> > 10 >> > years ago. This is a free list to everyone interested in rocks from >> > the >> > beginning! Don't be a "micro tyranist" and start making rules that >> > only >> > abide to your own special interests. I find it interesting that you, >> > yourself will scold me for not putting "AD" on an update listing. But, >> > you >> > have not make a positive comment about my recent collecting trip report >> > that >> > so many have enjoyed?! This list is free to everyone who wants to talk >> > rocks. So why are a few moderate "minerals for sale" ads a month per >> > business such a bad thing? I know and have seen politics in action. >> > The >> > term "regular contributor" can mean whatever someone wants. You know >> > Kitty, >> > I haven't seen YOU post a collecting report lately??? This is what I >> > consider to be a worthwhile posting! >> > >> > A Fellow Mineral Collector, Writer and Businessman, >> > >> > Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals >> > www.greatbasinminerals.com >> > scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" >> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> > collectors" >> > >> > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:51 AM >> > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy >> > >> > >> >> Greetings, >> >> >> >> The Rockhounds List rules that appear now on the >> >> website: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html >> >> do not say anything about participation for advertisers, although >> >> Aaron >> > has >> >> commented privately to a few subscribers over the years that people >> >> who >> >> advertise should also participate in a meaningful way. >> >> >> >> The new rules which the Admin Team is going to post any day now states >> >> the >> >> following: >> >> >> >> quote: Subscribers who post ads should "pay" for ads by being a >> >> regular >> >> contributor or participating in list discussions. If your only >> >> postings >> >> to the List are ADs, you will be treated as a spammer. >> >> >> >> Thank you to everyone for being patient while the Admin Team completes >> >> the >> >> transfer to new administration. That transfer and the new rules will >> >> be >> >> announced very soon. >> >> >> >> Aloha, Kitty >> >> >> >> >> >> At 06:20 AM 11/3/2005, Tim Fisher wrote: >> >> >> >> >Is this list now a forum for advertisers who have nothing of >> >> substance >> > to >> >> contribute? I had thought that the rules for participation on this >> >> list >were that you had to post some messages with content relevant to >> >> the >> >> topic of discussion, mainly rockhounding, in addition to your ads... >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> >> Subscription Services: >> >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com Thu Nov 3 11:48:23 2005 From: scottkleine at greatbasinminerals.com (Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals) Date: Thu Nov 3 11:46:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! References: <20051103162426.58977.qmail@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00f401c5e0ab$7a7080f0$3b00a940@gbm> Message-ID: <015101c5e0af$8fa94160$3b00a940@gbm> Hi Rich and all, That fact of the matter is that this list has ALWAYS been for ANYONE wanting to talk rocks. Why is it so evil to offer some for sale every so often?? You all act like we're committing murder! In fact, more e-mails will be sent nit-picking this one discussion than there will be dealer ads for the next WEEK or more!!! By the way, when was the last time that a dealer really spammed this list (an ad more than once a week?) I cannot remember the last time. So, why is this in discussion??? It is my belief that Kitty has a personal vendeta against mineral dealers. She, NOT ONCE, EVER said anything positive about any of my field trip reports, EVER! Yes, she is always there to scold a dealer's ad. I'm sorry, but I do not feel that any "moderator" should bring their personal views into this list. Until this issue is resolved, I will neither post new trip reports or business ads to this group. Sound like a fair trade? You can thank this new rule... Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals www.greatbasinminerals.com scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com From jonee at epix.net Thu Nov 3 12:02:20 2005 From: jonee at epix.net (E.L. Jones) Date: Thu Nov 3 12:02:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bachman Mine... PESA In-Reply-To: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> Message-ID: <436A6CCC.8090801@epix.net> Hello Stephen and other folks near Allentown, Pennsylvania. There are about 5 mines(zinc and iron) within 4 miles of this location, although access is somewhat limited now, some are available though club field trips. Check out the Pennsylvania Earth Science Association. You are very close to this club and I recommend that you make the $14(?) investment in membership: A very helpful group, always with an interesting presentation, usually a member material, silent auction before each meeting, and 15-20 field trips each year! At a recent meeting we had a geologist who worked at the zinc mine tell about how he got started working there as a college student. We have several mineral study themes each month (colored, flourscent, etc) and some members provide world class specimens for the displays. I can't fully express how enthralled I am with the club's members, library,benefits and fellowship. Meet the lady that Matulaite was named for by attending this meeting: Pennsylvania Earth Science Association 1245 Whitehall Ave Allentown, PA 18102-2941 P.E.S.A meetings are held on the third Monday of each month at 7:30 p.m. at the Trinity Memorial Lutheran Church, 535 West Emmaus Ave. in Allentown, PA. Guests are Welcome. For mine data: Elton Stephen Anderson wrote: > Hello, > > I live on a piece of land in Hellertown, PA (Northampton County). I > understand that the Bachman Iron Mine once occupied part of the > mountainside in my woods where much rare MATULAITE has been found. > > Does anyone have any information regarding BACHMAN IRON MINE, or > MATULAITE that they could share with me? > > Thanks, > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 3 12:19:11 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 3 12:19:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Awesome Alabama & Arkansas Collecting Trip Report- In-Reply-To: <00f401c5e0ab$7a7080f0$3b00a940@gbm> References: <20051103162426.58977.qmail@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00f401c5e0ab$7a7080f0$3b00a940@gbm> Message-ID: <436A70BF.5040605@verizon.net> Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals wrote: > Dear Group, > > My worst fears have come to light and censorship now prevails over > freedom on this group. Whoa whoa whoa! What is all that about? I don't understand. I have been a list member almost as long as Scott, and the balanced ad policy was set years ago, by group consensus and enforced by the various moderators in succession. This is nothing new Scott. I don't believe the comments were directed at YOU--you are a well-known and long-time contributor--but at a very few people who post nothing but ads to the list. The last few years have been tough on all of us; the economy, war, famine, pestilence, terror, disasters... this list remains, for the most part, a peaceful refuge where we can gather and share regardless of who we are and where we live. I would ask that you reconsider your statements and don't leave; I value your contributions and I think your words were made in haste. Don From info at demineralia.com Thu Nov 3 12:19:14 2005 From: info at demineralia.com (info@demineralia.com) Date: Thu Nov 3 12:28:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: AD: update In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051103081242.026e62e0@orerockon.com> References: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> <6.2.5.3.2.20051103070609.028ff508@orerockon.com> <20051103155022.19420.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> <6.2.5.3.2.20051103081242.026e62e0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <20051103201914.19596.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> Tim Fisher Scrive: Tim, first I am a minerals researcher, I go where ever there are possibility for making minerals search, then a minerals dealer because you know (I hope) that Airplane tickets, hotels, equipment for digging are not cheaper and it makes our hobby expencive and the only way to get some money back is to sell specimens, and I do it in a legal way, I also pay taxes for that! You also have to think that without the dealers you'll NEVER know anything about new minerals discoveries around the World. I think you are against dealers, I don't know why, and I do no twant to know the reasons! If you have preblems , I think, you have to solve them by your own and not doing troubles with all the dealers and rockhounders of the list. Remember, this is a discussion forum, so EVERYBODY should know the contet of the send mails. regards, Emanuele > As far as I can recall, you have only ever posted ads to the list. Please > correct me if I am wrong. The list is a discussion forum for rockhounds > and rockhounding; it is not, was never, and is not intended to ever be, > solely a forum for advertising. There are many, many lists and sites on > the internet where you can post ads, and only post ads; if that is your > only reason for being on the list, I suggest you find a better place to > post your ads. Your response below reveals your intent on only posting ads > to the rockhounds discussion list, since you did not address my only issue > with your posts, namely that I have never seen any substantive > contribution by you to the topic of rockhounding, nor any other topic > discussed on the list. I have no issue with either the frequency or the > content of your ads. I too post ads to the list. I also post responses, > questions, and generally participate in list discussions, in fact for > every 100 posts I make to the list you are lucky if you can find one > advertisement. > > At 07:50 AM 11/3/2005, you wrote: > >> Tim Fisher Scrive: >> Hi Tim, nice to know you. >> Some months ago someone of the list wrote to me: >> "Please note that when you place an advertisement or update to the >> Rockhounds list you should put [AD] in the Subject line so that people >> can skip or delete if they wish. If you put '[AD] Update" then it will >> be quite clear...if you look at >> http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html >> there are guidelines for the use of this list, and they include that ads >> should be limited to 2 or 3 per month." >> 1-In my object line there was the [AD], so it was clearly an update, and >> you could del my mail, but you didn't... >> 2-I'm sending AD mail only once a Month, not 2 or 3 as it is written in >> the list-rules... >> If i disturbed you, I'm sorry, but next month please del my AD mail. >> Thank you so much, >> best regards. >> Emanuele >> >>> Is this list now a forum for advertisers who have nothing of substance >>> to contribute? I had thought that the rules for participation on this >>> list were that you had to post some messages with content relevant to >>> the topic of discussion, mainly rockhounding, in addition to your ads >>> (which, if I am not mistaken, I have seen the exact same ad below posted >>> at least 5 times over the past few months). Perhaps I am mistaken...and >>> perhaps this person has posted a message with relevant content, so if I >>> am wrong, by all means, please enlighten me... >>> At 05:44 AM 11/3/2005, you wrote: >>>> hi all, >>>> we have posted several new specimens directly from the MINERALIENTAGE >>>> MUNCHEN 2005. Come to visit us at www.demineralia.com >>>> you'll find good and well selected specimens! >>>> thank you very much, best regards, >>>> Emanuele Marini >>>> www.demineralia.com > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Nov 3 12:33:55 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Nov 3 12:35:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] AD policy References: <20051103191237.RKMN2059.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> <015501c5e0ab$a709e480$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <01e101c5e0b5$ef3ecd60$12b4010a@warren> OK, you everyone - this is your second warning. We'll accept e-mails to admins once the new rules are posted, if you disagree with them for some reason. Otherwise, stick to rocks and rockhounding, or we will have to moderate the list for a few days and that is really frustrating to do. If you want to continue this discussion with me or another member, please do so offlist. Thanks, Julie SIebel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 11:20 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] AD policy > OK, Please end this discussion for now. If you have comments when we post > the new list rules, which will be very soon, we will be happy to hear > them. > > For now, let's get back to rocks and rockhound. > > Julie Siebel > Rockhounds List Owner > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" > > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 11:12 AM > Subject: Re: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy > > >> There are, in my opinion, few who contribute as much as Scott does to the >> forum. >> >> >>> >>> From: "Julie Siebel" >>> Date: 2005/11/03 Thu PM 01:33:23 EST >>> To: "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" >>> , >>> "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy >>> >>> Scott... >>> >>> They are not Kitty's policies...they were developed by Kitty, Kreigh, >>> Aaron, >>> Carol, my husband and myself, based on obvious problems with the list. >>> >>> Kitty's job is to remind people about it. >>> >>> Julie >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" >>> >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 10:28 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy >>> >>> >>> > To Kitty, >>> > >>> > I have to say that your policies (and politics) are getting out of >>> > control. I have been a contributor to this list since it started over >>> > 10 >>> > years ago. This is a free list to everyone interested in rocks from >>> > the >>> > beginning! Don't be a "micro tyranist" and start making rules that >>> > only >>> > abide to your own special interests. I find it interesting that you, >>> > yourself will scold me for not putting "AD" on an update listing. >>> > But, >>> > you >>> > have not make a positive comment about my recent collecting trip >>> > report >>> > that >>> > so many have enjoyed?! This list is free to everyone who wants to >>> > talk >>> > rocks. So why are a few moderate "minerals for sale" ads a month per >>> > business such a bad thing? I know and have seen politics in action. >>> > The >>> > term "regular contributor" can mean whatever someone wants. You know >>> > Kitty, >>> > I haven't seen YOU post a collecting report lately??? This is what I >>> > consider to be a worthwhile posting! >>> > >>> > A Fellow Mineral Collector, Writer and Businessman, >>> > >>> > Scott Kleine- Great Basin Minerals >>> > www.greatbasinminerals.com >>> > scottkleine@greatbasinminerals.com >>> > >>> > >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> > From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" >>> > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> > collectors" >>> > >>> > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:51 AM >>> > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD policy >>> > >>> > >>> >> Greetings, >>> >> >>> >> The Rockhounds List rules that appear now on the >>> >> website: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html >>> >> do not say anything about participation for advertisers, although >>> >> Aaron >>> > has >>> >> commented privately to a few subscribers over the years that people >>> >> who >>> >> advertise should also participate in a meaningful way. >>> >> >>> >> The new rules which the Admin Team is going to post any day now >>> >> states >>> >> the >>> >> following: >>> >> >>> >> quote: Subscribers who post ads should "pay" for ads by being a >>> >> regular >>> >> contributor or participating in list discussions. If your only >>> >> postings >>> >> to the List are ADs, you will be treated as a spammer. >>> >> >>> >> Thank you to everyone for being patient while the Admin Team >>> >> completes >>> >> the >>> >> transfer to new administration. That transfer and the new rules will >>> >> be >>> >> announced very soon. >>> >> >>> >> Aloha, Kitty >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> At 06:20 AM 11/3/2005, Tim Fisher wrote: >>> >> >>> >> >Is this list now a forum for advertisers who have nothing of >>> >> substance >>> > to >>> >> contribute? I had thought that the rules for participation on this >>> >> list >were that you had to post some messages with content relevant >>> >> to >>> >> the >>> >> topic of discussion, mainly rockhounding, in addition to your ads... >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> >> Subscription Services: >>> >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> > Subscription Services: >>> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jr50wv at yahoo.com Thu Nov 3 12:36:50 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Thu Nov 3 12:36:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADs and minerals and field trips Message-ID: <20051103203650.26692.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: I like small, polite, occasional notices about updates at mineral dealers, as opposed to spam about great deals on diamonds when you supply a bank account number. I buy and swap minerals with collectors and dealers, mostly via the internet, since I live hundreds of miles from the nearest mineral dealer (except Dave, no offense, Dave!). So rare ADs and update notices are valuable to me. I also very much enjoyed the latest big field trip report. I liked it well enough to leave the page loading while I went to bed, because I could tell it was photo intensive, and I only get 28Kb download speed on my rural phone line... I think the notes placed by deminerlia are unobtrusive and I imagine the folks get benefit from the list besides being able to pose the occasional AD note, if all they do is lurk, they benefit. There are obviously many lurkers who rarely if ever send in a note, we know this from the rare instances when they are driven to reply to something that hits their sweet spot (or sour, if I can torture this metaphor just a little further). Tim, I understand your point, I do! But, really, they are polite, tiny little notices. My latest field trip was to the Bazaar, where I saw their going out of business sale sign, fixtures included. I went in, and they had two displays of 4 foot cubes of glass panes held together with steel and plastic clips. The sign had $100/ea marked out, and $75/ea marked out, and the current price was $50/ea. I've been looking for glass display cases for years now, and new ones cost about $2K. So last Saturday my wife and I got some cardboard boxes, tape, a power screwdriver and a rachet hand screwdriver, and we got there about 2 in the afternoon. At 6 pm (closing time) I had 6 boxes too heavy for me to pick up by myself. Martha and I were able to get them up onto the tailgate together, but they were really heavy! Silica plates, several cubic feet of silica minerals, at however many pounds per cubic foot. Had to be 500 or 600 pounds of stuff. (2.66 Grams per cm cubed - I know how to convert that to lbs/cubic foot but don't care enough to do it!) Sunday evening a friend came over with a hand-truck and we got it all to the deck under the back porch. He's pretty burly, but it was still hard to get the boxes off the truck with any grace. We only had one plate break, and it was just being handled and shattered into a thousand little cubes of broken glass in Martha's lap. I suspect it was under stress in the store and shattered because the stress went away suddenly. The boxes were totally unable to cope with the weight and tore apart while being moved. I'm working on designing how to re-erect the bits and pieces into display space, and how to maybe use them as portable display if I ever start to sell at shows...some day when I'm not working 40 hours a week, or so... There's a huge amount of shelving there, probably more than I can use at first. It isn't air-tight, tho, so the rocks will get dusty... I know about rules, and we need rules, but they should all have wiggle room in them, because there will always be exceptions on both sides, people taking advantage, people stretching their limits, and so forth. I guess I'm just asking everyone to be calm and polite and peaceful, and try not to drive anyone away with strident posts. And be kind, you can point out problems or issues while being kind, it's sometimes hard, but worth doing. This is the best minerals and rocks listserve I know of, with the widest attendence world wide, and I would hate something bad or un-productive happening to it. I love being able to ask serious (or not so serious!) questions about minerals or rocks anywhere, and being able to get good answers and opinions from people who have been there and seen it! All the good information about possibilities for the little bit of matrix on the bottom of a fluorite I bought, for example. Not important, but useful, educational and fun. Thanks, Rock for all your information, maybe we'll meet in Dal'negorsk someday, and look at rocks and drink Vodka!! And, my Thanks to the originator of the listserv, and to everyone who has helped keep it going! Keep on Rocking! JR in WV --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Nov 3 13:09:13 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Nov 3 12:54:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Add update References: <200511031850.jA3IoUUj025354@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <023e01c5e0ba$d85364d0$6901a8c0@rock3> Tim, I am with you and I am a dealer. This bulletin board can be anything we want it to be. I think that we should insist that anyone posting advertisements on this bulletin board provide some content that will be interesting to our members rather than "I have this calcite for sale" kind of thing. The people who run this bulletin board are reasonable people and probably feel the same irritation in reading dumb adds. If enough people in the group complain about the adds and tell the advertisers them what they would like to see along with the adds, they will do their best to make it happen. It really does not take all that much effort to add content to an add. For our gem and mineral shows send out news letters to our customers telling them what we have for sale but always include what we hope will be interesting stuff related to what we are selling to try and inform and educate our customers. I think it is bad business to do otherwise. If you know anything much at all about minerals you can pound out some interesting stuff in ten or fifteen minuets. I really think it would improve the sales of dealers posting stuff on the board if they would do that. Let us hear from a bunch of you on the list? Shall we make them sing for their dinner? What sort things would you like to see along with the adds? Mineral history? News about producing localities? News about mineral shows? What makes their specimens interesting or different? It is really up to you? What do you want? More of the same dull adds? Rock From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Nov 3 12:56:20 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Nov 3 12:55:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: AD: update References: <20051103134411.1193.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> <6.2.5.3.2.20051103070609.028ff508@orerockon.com> <20051103155022.19420.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> <6.2.5.3.2.20051103081242.026e62e0@orerockon.com> <20051103201914.19596.qmail@webmaild.fe1.aruba.it> Message-ID: <01e501c5e0b9$0b078160$6402a8c0@remains> I hardly think Tim is against mineral dealers.....he himself sells material ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 1:19 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: AD: update > Tim Fisher Scrive: > Tim, > first I am a minerals researcher, I go where ever there are possibility > for making minerals search, then a minerals dealer because you know (I > hope) that Airplane tickets, hotels, equipment for digging are not cheaper > and it makes our hobby expencive and the only way to get some money back > is to sell specimens, and I do it in a legal way, I also pay taxes for > that! > You also have to think that without the dealers you'll NEVER know anything > about new minerals discoveries around the World. > I think you are against dealers, I don't know why, and I do no twant to > know the reasons! If you have preblems , I think, you have to solve them > by your own and not doing troubles with all the dealers and rockhounders > of the list. Remember, this is a discussion forum, so EVERYBODY should > know the contet of the send mails. > regards, > Emanuele > >> As far as I can recall, you have only ever posted ads to the list. Please >> correct me if I am wrong. The list is a discussion forum for rockhounds >> and rockhounding; it is not, was never, and is not intended to ever be, >> solely a forum for advertising. There are many, many lists and sites on >> the internet where you can post ads, and only post ads; if that is your >> only reason for being on the list, I suggest you find a better place to >> post your ads. Your response below reveals your intent on only posting >> ads to the rockhounds discussion list, since you did not address my only >> issue with your posts, namely that I have never seen any substantive >> contribution by you to the topic of rockhounding, nor any other topic >> discussed on the list. I have no issue with either the frequency or the >> content of your ads. I too post ads to the list. I also post responses, >> questions, and generally participate in list discussions, in fact for >> every 100 posts I make to the list you are lucky if you can find one >> advertisement. At 07:50 AM 11/3/2005, you wrote: >>> Tim Fisher Scrive: >>> Hi Tim, nice to know you. >>> Some months ago someone of the list wrote to me: >>> "Please note that when you place an advertisement or update to the >>> Rockhounds list you should put [AD] in the Subject line so that people >>> can skip or delete if they wish. If you put '[AD] Update" then it will >>> be quite clear...if you look at >>> http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds/laup.html >>> there are guidelines for the use of this list, and they include that ads >>> should be limited to 2 or 3 per month." >>> 1-In my object line there was the [AD], so it was clearly an update, and >>> you could del my mail, but you didn't... >>> 2-I'm sending AD mail only once a Month, not 2 or 3 as it is written in >>> the list-rules... >>> If i disturbed you, I'm sorry, but next month please del my AD mail. >>> Thank you so much, >>> best regards. >>> Emanuele >>>> Is this list now a forum for advertisers who have nothing of substance >>>> to contribute? I had thought that the rules for participation on this >>>> list were that you had to post some messages with content relevant to >>>> the topic of discussion, mainly rockhounding, in addition to your ads >>>> (which, if I am not mistaken, I have seen the exact same ad below >>>> posted at least 5 times over the past few months). Perhaps I am >>>> mistaken...and perhaps this person has posted a message with relevant >>>> content, so if I am wrong, by all means, please enlighten me... >>>> At 05:44 AM 11/3/2005, you wrote: >>>>> hi all, >>>>> we have posted several new specimens directly from the MINERALIENTAGE >>>>> MUNCHEN 2005. Come to visit us at www.demineralia.com >>>>> you'll find good and well selected specimens! >>>>> thank you very much, best regards, >>>>> Emanuele Marini >>>>> www.demineralia.com >> >> Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >> Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Nov 3 13:06:22 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Nov 3 13:03:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Add update References: <200511031850.jA3IoUUj025354@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <023e01c5e0ba$d85364d0$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <000701c5e0ba$727164a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I am with you. I don't have a problem with someone providing some useful info and then providing a link at the end of their message to a site where they sell something. This site is already top heavy with messages so we don't need overt commercial postings up front. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 1:09 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Add update > Tim, > > I am with you and I am a dealer. This bulletin board can be anything we want > it to be. I think that we should insist that anyone posting advertisements > on this bulletin board provide some content that will be interesting to our > members rather than "I have this calcite for sale" kind of thing. The people > who run this bulletin board are reasonable people and probably feel the same > irritation in reading dumb adds. If enough people in the group complain > about the adds and tell the advertisers them what they would like to see > along with the adds, they will do their best to make it happen. It really > does not take all that much effort to add content to an add. For our gem and > mineral shows send out news letters to our customers telling them what we > have for sale but always include what we hope will be interesting stuff > related to what we are selling to try and inform and educate our customers. > I think it is bad business to do otherwise. If you know anything much at all > about minerals you can pound out some interesting stuff in ten or fifteen > minuets. I really think it would improve the sales of dealers posting stuff > on the board if they would do that. > > Let us hear from a bunch of you on the list? Shall we make them sing for > their dinner? What sort things would you like to see along with the adds? > Mineral history? News about producing localities? News about mineral shows? > What makes their specimens interesting or different? It is really up to you? > What do you want? More of the same dull adds? > > Rock > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Nov 3 14:05:22 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:05:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! In-Reply-To: <015101c5e0af$8fa94160$3b00a940@gbm> References: <20051103162426.58977.qmail@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00f401c5e0ab$7a7080f0$3b00a940@gbm> <015101c5e0af$8fa94160$3b00a940@gbm> Message-ID: <57b9425f959ac4c878e8cd5c046a321b@cox.net> Scott, I went looking for you in Tucson simply to meet and thank you for list support. I will not be doing that again. A frontal attack on Kitty suggesting she has a vendetta is way below the belt. I do hope you keep your promise. Terrie From polarisboy5064 at hotmail.com Thu Nov 3 09:32:28 2005 From: polarisboy5064 at hotmail.com (Dustin Flock) Date: Thu Nov 3 14:14:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Message-ID: Hello My name is Dustin some buddies and i were thinking about going riding up on Freezeout but were werent really sure how the snow was and how much was really up there it would be greatly appreciated if you could write us back and let us know about the weather up there. Thanks, Dustin Team Impact polarisboy5064@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Nov 3 15:05:51 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Nov 3 15:05:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! In-Reply-To: <57b9425f959ac4c878e8cd5c046a321b@cox.net> Message-ID: <200511032305.jA3N5rUb022070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Wow, Terrie. Speaking of a "frontal attack" and hitting "below the belt". Tsk tsk tsk. You should know better than that. :-( I don't know about Kitty's feelings regarding dealers, but I do agree with most of what Scott says about the dealer ad issue. But I will go into that as soon as we see this new policy from the List Admin committee. I just hope they don't make it as limiting as it seems they will be doing. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Masters Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 3:05 PM To: Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! Scott, I went looking for you in Tucson simply to meet and thank you for list support. I will not be doing that again. A frontal attack on Kitty suggesting she has a vendetta is way below the belt. I do hope you keep your promise. Terrie _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Nov 3 15:11:24 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Nov 3 15:13:14 2005 Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! References: <200511032305.jA3N5rUb022070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <02bf01c5e0cb$efe4a850$12b4010a@warren> Bob - the ONLY LIMIT on dealers, as Kitty said, was that they also have to contribute information other than sales to the list. That is IT. The only time we will MODERATE the list for this kind of thing is when people insist on public, on-the-list, personal attacks. Julie Siebel One of six admins, and list owner. From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Nov 3 15:16:34 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Nov 3 15:17:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! References: <20051103162426.58977.qmail@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00f401c5e0ab$7a7080f0$3b00a940@gbm> <015101c5e0af$8fa94160$3b00a940@gbm> <57b9425f959ac4c878e8cd5c046a321b@cox.net> Message-ID: <023901c5e0cc$b594b860$6402a8c0@remains> Teresa has a right to her opinion about Scott, just as he has a right to his about Kitty. My opinion is Scott isn't going to be all that upset about your snubbing him at Tucson next year Teresa.....he's probably hoping you'll keep YOUR promise...... :-) Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teresa Masters" To: "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" <>; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! > Scott, > I went looking for you in Tucson simply to meet and thank you for list > support. > > I will not be doing that again. A frontal attack on Kitty suggesting she > has a vendetta is way below the belt. > > I do hope you keep your promise. > Terrie > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From info at wisdomofstones.com Thu Nov 3 15:46:41 2005 From: info at wisdomofstones.com (wisdom of stones) Date: Thu Nov 3 15:46:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! In-Reply-To: <200511032305.jA3N5rUb022070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: I realize I'm new to this list but I've been reading this discussion thread and wondering if there's a list of dealers, retailers, distributors on this list should we want to contact them? Also, I belong to a few other listservs for some other interests of mine and a few of them have what they call "1st day ad day". Basically, on the first day of each month members of the listserv can post a marketing ad. The rest of the month is reserved only for discussions. It's worked well and people know to expect a flurry of ads one day each month. Just thought I'd offer a thought. thanks, jennifer -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Bob Loeffler Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:06 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! Wow, Terrie. Speaking of a "frontal attack" and hitting "below the belt". Tsk tsk tsk. You should know better than that. :-( I don't know about Kitty's feelings regarding dealers, but I do agree with most of what Scott says about the dealer ad issue. But I will go into that as soon as we see this new policy from the List Admin committee. I just hope they don't make it as limiting as it seems they will be doing. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Masters Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 3:05 PM To: Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! Scott, I went looking for you in Tucson simply to meet and thank you for list support. I will not be doing that again. A frontal attack on Kitty suggesting she has a vendetta is way below the belt. I do hope you keep your promise. Terrie _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Nov 3 15:59:42 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Nov 3 15:59:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! References: Message-ID: <025201c5e0d2$a958f2e0$6402a8c0@remains> Jennifer there are a lot of dealers on this list. Some post ads without contributing much to the discussion (this is the current situation/dispute), while others post constantly with informative and helpful info...but seldom if ever offer their materials for sale. To my knowledge, there is no "listing" of mineral dealers on this list. I think perhaps the best thing to do would be to make a post to the list asking for a specific material (whatever you might be interested in at the time) and ask if there is anyone on the list who would be able to help you locate it. Obviously, ask to be contacted off-list, so as to not bother everyone else with something they have no interest in. A lot of the people on this list deal in a variety of materials, while others may deal in a specific mineral, or specimens from a specific locality or mine. For the most part, I think the current policy works fairly well....there just may be some people who oppose the specifics of it. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "wisdom of stones" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 4:46 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! >I realize I'm new to this list but I've been reading this discussion thread > and wondering if there's a list of dealers, retailers, distributors on > this > list should we want to contact them? > > Also, I belong to a few other listservs for some other interests of mine > and > a few of them have what they call "1st day ad day". Basically, on the > first > day of each month members of the listserv can post a marketing ad. The > rest > of the month is reserved only for discussions. It's worked well and > people > know to expect a flurry of ads one day each month. > > Just thought I'd offer a thought. > > thanks, > jennifer > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Bob Loeffler > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:06 PM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! > > > Wow, Terrie. Speaking of a "frontal attack" and hitting "below the belt". > Tsk tsk tsk. You should know better than that. :-( > > I don't know about Kitty's feelings regarding dealers, but I do agree with > most of what Scott says about the dealer ad issue. But I will go into > that > as soon as we see this new policy from the List Admin committee. I just > hope they don't make it as limiting as it seems they will be doing. > > Regards, > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Masters > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 3:05 PM > To: Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing > list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! > > Scott, > I went looking for you in Tucson simply to meet and thank you for list > support. > > I will not be doing that again. A frontal attack on Kitty suggesting > she has a vendetta is way below the belt. > > I do hope you keep your promise. > Terrie > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Nov 3 13:58:57 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:01:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] List Dad (was: Let Freedom Ring!) References: <200511032305.jA3N5rUb022070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <02bf01c5e0cb$efe4a850$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <002f01c5e0c1$cfb6c9a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Hey List, The new Admin rules should be posted in the next few days and we'll all have a chance to comment on them. In the mean time may I suggest that we all act like civilized adults and not attack the folks that make us a community of common interest. You will note in the new rules that I have volunteered (dragged kicking and screaming) into the role of "List Dad" to compliment Kitty's "List Mom". These titles assume (unfortunately) that some of us act like children on occasion. Let's not. I really enjoy this list and I start each day looking forward to reading your posts and responding when I have a clue. I believe in the value of information shared openly. Please respect each other. John Siebel From amc358 at rcn.com Thu Nov 3 16:14:04 2005 From: amc358 at rcn.com (Albert McCann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:14:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Hill In-Reply-To: <8C7AE9FC497D0A1-1A24-2F09@MBLK-M08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001201c5e0d4$aa7351a0$0a01a8c0@osnerd> It's the property owned by PECO (electric co) on the west side of Baltimore Pike, between Media and Granite Run Mall. As you drive south out of Media and down the hill, you cross over a creek. It (or was several years ago) is possible to pull into a small park JUST PAST the creek, on the west side. If you continue south on Baltimore Pike, you start heading up a hill towards PA RT 252 and the Media bypass US RT 1, that hill you are driving up is the eastern side of Mineral Hill. Someone who knows the place suggested looking in the creek, following it west. That follows the contour of the hill. The science museum in Media has a lot of minerals from that area. Al McCann > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > betdav97@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 10:10 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral Hill > > > Hi Paul,, > Mineral Hill, is near Media, Pennsylvania. > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul > To: Rock Currier ; > Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Sent: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 22:43:10 -0500 > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Hill > > > Can anyone on the list give me directions to a place called > Mineral Hill in Delaware County, Pa? > > Paul in Marietta > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Nov 3 14:14:07 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:16:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Freezeout References: Message-ID: <004101c5e0c3$ee71b100$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Hi Dustin, We're about 20 miles west of Freezeout (I'm assuming your talking about Freezeout Mt., Idaho). It's mostly been raining hard and windy the past few days. It's getting colder though and feels like it may snow here (3100 ft) tonight. Freezeout is about 6000'. No snow yet that I know of but if you come bring shovels, tire chains and/or a 4WD. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dustin Flock" Hello My name is Dustin some buddies and i were thinking about going riding up on Freezeout but were werent really sure how the snow was and how much was really up there it would be greatly appreciated if you could write us back and let us know about the weather up there. Thanks, Dustin From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 3 16:19:38 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:19:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Hill In-Reply-To: <001201c5e0d4$aa7351a0$0a01a8c0@osnerd> References: <001201c5e0d4$aa7351a0$0a01a8c0@osnerd> Message-ID: <436AA91A.4020007@verizon.net> Albert McCann wrote: > It's the property owned by PECO (electric co) on the west side of Baltimore > Pike, between Media and Granite Run Mall. I used to date a woman who lived right there... I remember at least one aggregate quarry in the area... what is there of interest to collectors? Thanks, Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 3 16:22:21 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:21:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Freezeout In-Reply-To: <004101c5e0c3$ee71b100$6400a8c0@mshome.net> References: <004101c5e0c3$ee71b100$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <436AA9BD.9030708@verizon.net> John Siebel wrote: > Hi Dustin, > > We're about 20 miles west of Freezeout (I'm assuming your talking about > Freezeout Mt., Idaho). It's mostly been raining hard and windy the past few > days. It's getting colder though and feels like it may snow here (3100 ft) > tonight. Freezeout is about 6000'. Hi Dustin, I live about 20 mins. from John and 500 ft. lower, and it's cold and rainy down here too, with possible snow having been in the forecast for the last week. I would imagine that Freezeout is not a good place to be right now, though I can't find any direct evidence of that. Don From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Nov 3 16:20:58 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:22:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Freezeout References: <004101c5e0c3$ee71b100$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <032401c5e0d5$a767a2d0$12b4010a@warren> > It's getting colder though and feels like it may snow here (3100 ft) Actually, I just checked, and they are calling for snow here tomorrow night, which means that Freezeout is surely snowed in by now. Julie From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Nov 3 16:25:18 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:22:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Freezeout References: <004101c5e0c3$ee71b100$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <000b01c5e0d6$3e5f8e00$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> There are some Freezeout Mountains in Wyoming also near Hanna. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Freezeout > Hi Dustin, > > We're about 20 miles west of Freezeout (I'm assuming your talking about > Freezeout Mt., Idaho). It's mostly been raining hard and windy the past few > days. It's getting colder though and feels like it may snow here (3100 ft) > tonight. Freezeout is about 6000'. No snow yet that I know of but if you > come bring shovels, tire chains and/or a 4WD. > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dustin Flock" > Hello > > My name is Dustin some buddies and i were thinking about going riding up on > Freezeout but were werent really sure how the snow was and how much was > really up there it would be greatly appreciated if you could write us back > and let us know about the weather up there. > > Thanks, > Dustin > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Nov 3 16:38:18 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:38:22 2005 Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! In-Reply-To: <02bf01c5e0cb$efe4a850$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <200511040038.jA40cKUb024266@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi Julie, Do we really need to impose this new limitation on dealers? I'll bet most of us didn't have a problem when we saw Emanuelle's ad because he sends them out approximately once a month and puts "[AD]" in the subject as we have strongly suggested to all dealers. He was following the rules. What happened to the "just click on the Delete key if you aren't interested" mantra? Who is to say what is good enough to be considered a good contribution? Pictures of mineral specimens on a dealers website seems pretty relevant to me and a good contribution (even though it is not physically in the e-mail post). I remember when it was decided to limit a dealer's ad to "website links only". If we are going to require "content" in his e-mails, we will be going back to exactly what we didn't want.... details about the specimens and other stuff that should be on the website and not in the e-mail. Why should that dealer have to take the time to write up something that is educational to some of the people on the list when he is already sharing information with us on his website!?!? Each of his pictures has info such as the location where it was found, what it is, etc. IMHO, that is an informative contribution. What about all of the lurkers on the list who have never shared any info with us? There are hundreds of them... maybe 1000s. If a lurker wants to sell a rock saw, should we require him to first post a message about something relevant, like his collection? Well, that's not something that most of us care about because we all have some type of specialization in our collections. So should it be about his favorite collecting spot? Again, most people won't care because this list is worldwide and we can't get to that location and there usually isn't enough information for us to find the location anyway. But, what about the lurkers who don't share anything with the list, but then turn around and let other people know about the list? They are still doing a service to the list even if we don't see it. Maybe this dealer has been doing that for the past year. Or maybe he has been educating his clientelle while they are in his shop. Shouldn't that be good enough? I will go along with whatever is decided, but it seems like this rule is being created when it really doesn't need to be. This worked just fine when Aaron was the only admin. Has anything really changed since then? No, I don't think so. As long as dealers are limited to one ad a month and they let us know it's an ad, that is all that's really needed. One ad per dealer per month is a lot better than a lot of the off-topic yapping that we have to deal with EACH AND EVERY WEEK. Anyway, the policy will need to explicitly say what is acceptable content in a dealer ad and what is not. Otherwise, it's a bad policy and can't easily be followed. I'm very sorry to everyone for the rant. I'm normally a quiet guy, but I had to say something about this one. Waiver: I'm not a dealer, but I do know some of them. Nobody told me to say any of this. It's all my opinions and, I'm sure, the opinions of many others. ;-) Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Julie Siebel Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 4:11 PM To: bobl@peaktopeak.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! Bob - the ONLY LIMIT on dealers, as Kitty said, was that they also have to contribute information other than sales to the list. That is IT. The only time we will MODERATE the list for this kind of thing is when people insist on public, on-the-list, personal attacks. Julie Siebel One of six admins, and list owner. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From amc358 at rcn.com Thu Nov 3 16:57:16 2005 From: amc358 at rcn.com (Albert McCann) Date: Thu Nov 3 16:57:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Hill In-Reply-To: <436AA91A.4020007@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001301c5e0da$b3ab7da0$0a01a8c0@osnerd> > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:20 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral Hill > I used to date a woman who lived right there... I remember at > least one aggregate quarry in the area... what is there of > interest to collectors? I haven't been there myself in a few years, but housing developments are growing like weeds in that area. (Heck, for that matter, all of Delaware county.) PECO has put a big substation on the hill, I suppose that will discourage some build up. The quarries are either disappearing, or already long gone. The land's too valuable to be sold by the truck load. If you can find a copy, "Gem Trails of Pennsylvania and New Jersey" by Scott Stepanski and Karenne Snow has some Delco locations. 'Chrome run minerals' is across from Granite Run Mall, behind Riddle Memorial Hospital, in the creek. There is supposed to be quartz and chromite here. Scott Stepanski was a member of the old original Rockhounds list (some nine years ago...), maybe he's still lurking here. His book also mentions the Prospect Park Kyanite location, right behind the John Morton homestead on PA rt 420 (about 1/4 mile from I95). Al McCann From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Nov 3 16:58:32 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Nov 3 17:00:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] In response to Bob and References: <200511040038.jA40cKUb024266@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <035f01c5e0da$e62872b0$12b4010a@warren> > Hi Julie, > > Do we really need to impose this new limitation on dealers? Bob...this isn't a NEW limitation if you look back in the archives, it's simply the first time it's been posted as an actual RULE. So the inital poster of the ad (Italian Minerals) did everything right according to the POSTED list rules. Tim objected because of DISCUSSED list rules. What we are trying to do is make these ONE SET OF RULES - lol We (the admin team) for the most part don't mind dealer ads at all. But there are AD lists and there is THIS list, and we're trying to keep this information based...so if dealers want to post 2-3 times per month, all we are asking of them is that they also contribute information in the form of trip reports, responses to questions or general information. That's all. OK, so THAT was Julie-the-admin talking about the new, soon to be posted, list rules. The BIG problem I had was in the personal attacks: Against the Italian mineral guy, whose name escapes me; Tim Ficher, Kitty, Scott, Terrie...etc....and it will only get worse if we don't stop it now... Heck you should see the personal e-mails I received this time and other times about stuff like this. Regarding lurkers...well they are lurkers: They aren't posting so they aren't subject to the posting rules. You asked "Has anything really changed since then?" (THEN being since Aaron was sole admin rather than part of the team...) The answer is NO it hasn't and the rules reflect that. All we are doing is putting into actual rules what has already been discussed numerous times on this list. And again, my only personal problem with this, as an admin, has been the personal attacks involved. If any of our list members want to belong to a list that allows personal attacks - though debating is fine and encouraged - this list isn't it. Thanks HONESTLY for your input. It's always valued and we'll look forward to it when the new list rules are posted (please, God soon ;-) Julie From jonee at epix.net Thu Nov 3 19:37:53 2005 From: jonee at epix.net (E.L. Jones) Date: Thu Nov 3 19:38:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] ski poles useful In-Reply-To: <430CE353.50601@att.net> References: <20050824200342.24531.qmail@web53213.mail.yahoo.com> <430CE353.50601@att.net> Message-ID: <436AD791.6070603@epix.net> Walmart has a fold up hiking pole I've fallen in love with, .and I get my ski poles to give to rock hunting buddies from Salvo Thriftshops. Elton > From tangojuli at yahoo.com Thu Nov 3 19:40:15 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Thu Nov 3 19:40:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] alt mineral properties In-Reply-To: <200511040016.jA40GaUi007719@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20051104034015.39359.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com> I saw Jennifer's posting, was it yesterday or today? and the one later today about the metaphysical intersts of minerals and the query about learning about geology. To respond on the latter question, recently one of the regulars (sorry I can't attribute as I can't recall exactly who it was) posted a link to "about.com" and searching on this for information on geology. Curious and at loose ends, I followed it, and looked for courses online and was utterly delighted by what I found. I read up from a university website on crystallography and some on mineralogy (reminded again why I didn't follow geology in grad school). These can be awesome resources and provide you with structural geology, minerology and petrology, etc. The latter, petrology is the study of rock formation which is very helpful if you want to understand the formations and what you are likely to find in a particular location. Now, a few comments on metaphysical properties of rocks/mins. I've always been an informal "scientist", empirical evidence was a minimum requirement for my belief in something. I've been vaguely amused by what properties some have ascribed to minerals (i.e. hanksite supposedly rids you of avarice which might be counterproductive to collecting, I'd think). But hey, who knew bacteria caused heart disease and ulcers? A couple years ago, down on my luck and a little blue, I had just returned to Searles Lake for the annual bounty and took back 10-12 flats of hanksite and halite. In my little apartment in dark dreary Milwaukee in early winter, I sat scrubbing those hanksites of that endless black mud for days on end. In front of the TV, I would scrub, rinse, scrub rinse, dry, oil, and bag them for hours at a time. Curiously, my mood lifted, and I always felt surprisingly peaceful afterwards, like I had been meditating. Since then, I'm not too sure that minerals don't provide some benefits other than cognitive from contact with them. I'm not hopping on the new age bandwagon, mind you. But maybe there's another reason we are so attached to our rocks? :) (that's just going to send some of you over the edge, eh?) lol I also noted that when I was selling the evaporites (hanksites etc) that the EBAY specimens being sold to "new agers" were going at higher rates than those to mineral collectors for similar products. So, I made these very cool labels with a picture of the locality, the normal mineral data on the front and on the back a small blurb on the metaphysical properties. Two show organizers told me that I and my specimens would not be taken seriously by "serious collectors" if I had that on there, even on the back. :) Welcome to the group Jennifer. Lots of really awesome folks on the list who can answer just about any question you might have (our own little ready reference!) best, tina aka tangojuli --snip-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 13:03:30 -0600 From: "wisdom of stones" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Federation groups, clubs, etc. USA To: "DonH" , , "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Hi Don - Thanks for your response to my query. I understand completely what you're saying, appreciate your thoughts and don't necessarily disagree with you. I do however, have some beliefs about stones and the energies the earth holds, especially as it relates to physics and new scientific studies that are being done in the fields of vibrational science and medicine. I sometimes think the word "new age" and metaphysical are reaching a place of saturation and have become too terms that create more "reaction to" than "consideration around" as there is too much in this world we don't understand and open to reconsideration (if this is the right word).Am not wanting to debate my inquiry, work or my beliefs but was merely curious and interested in knowing more about the various groups, clubs, etc. I inquired about.... ---snip--- --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Nov 3 20:26:57 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Nov 3 20:16:00 2005 Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! References: <200511040038.jA40cKUb024266@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <436AE078.262F@Tomaszewski.net> Bob [and list], One of the steps in transitioning the List to the new Admin Team was moving the List Rules out of Aaron's personal account. Aaron raised the issue first and asked for someone to clean them up a bit, and add a couple rules that he never quite got around to posting. I took the task, but the whole Admin Team, including Aaron, helped. Aaron specifically mentioned the omission of his long standing guideline that AD postings needed to be reasonably infrequent (a couple or three a month max), that the posters needed to contribute more to the list than just ADs (contributing information, responding to posts, answering questions etc), that ADs needed a subject line tag (so those who don't want them can just hit delete), and they had to be on topic (as should any post to the list). Most dealers are more knowledgable than the average collector. I have always understood Aaron's policy was that dealers needed to share some of their knowledge to 'pay' for their advertising instead of just sponging off the list that Aaron paid for (and now the Admin Team is paying for). How a dealer wants to appear to the community is their business. There has never been a desire to regulate the content of dealer ADs other than to ask that they be 'on topic' (we don't want ADs for something unrelated to Rockhounding), and in reasonable taste. We all agree that dealers are important to our hobby, but they are not the primary focus of this List. We want to talk about Rockhounding most of the time. Dealers need a place in the discussion; we just wanted it to be more than "Buy my product" over and over. There has been a lot of effort going on behind the scenes to keep this List going and distribute the work that Aaron inherited from Tom Corson many years ago. There have been some bumps; no transition is without them, but we have tried to minimize or hide them. The new Admin Team is very concerned with retaining the 'flavor' of this List that has made it so successful. Yes, the new rules will be different in words and minor details, but I doubt you will find much has really changed other than the players. Thank you for being patient as we try to step into Aaron's very big shoes. Kreigh Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Hi Julie, > > Do we really need to impose this new limitation on dealers? I'll bet most > of us didn't have a problem when we saw Emanuelle's ad because he sends them > out approximately once a month and puts "[AD]" in the subject as we have > strongly suggested to all dealers. He was following the rules. What > happened to the "just click on the Delete key if you aren't interested" > mantra? > > Who is to say what is good enough to be considered a good contribution? > Pictures of mineral specimens on a dealers website seems pretty relevant to > me and a good contribution (even though it is not physically in the e-mail > post). I remember when it was decided to limit a dealer's ad to "website > links only". If we are going to require "content" in his e-mails, we will > be going back to exactly what we didn't want.... details about the specimens > and other stuff that should be on the website and not in the e-mail. Why > should that dealer have to take the time to write up something that is > educational to some of the people on the list when he is already sharing > information with us on his website!?!? Each of his pictures has info such > as the location where it was found, what it is, etc. IMHO, that is an > informative contribution. > > What about all of the lurkers on the list who have never shared any info > with us? There are hundreds of them... maybe 1000s. If a lurker wants to > sell a rock saw, should we require him to first post a message about > something relevant, like his collection? Well, that's not something that > most of us care about because we all have some type of specialization in our > collections. So should it be about his favorite collecting spot? Again, > most people won't care because this list is worldwide and we can't get to > that location and there usually isn't enough information for us to find the > location anyway. But, what about the lurkers who don't share anything with > the list, but then turn around and let other people know about the list? > They are still doing a service to the list even if we don't see it. Maybe > this dealer has been doing that for the past year. Or maybe he has been > educating his clientelle while they are in his shop. Shouldn't that be good > enough? > > I will go along with whatever is decided, but it seems like this rule is > being created when it really doesn't need to be. This worked just fine when > Aaron was the only admin. Has anything really changed since then? No, I > don't think so. As long as dealers are limited to one ad a month and they > let us know it's an ad, that is all that's really needed. One ad per dealer > per month is a lot better than a lot of the off-topic yapping that we have > to deal with EACH AND EVERY WEEK. > > Anyway, the policy will need to explicitly say what is acceptable content in > a dealer ad and what is not. Otherwise, it's a bad policy and can't easily > be followed. > > I'm very sorry to everyone for the rant. I'm normally a quiet guy, but I > had to say something about this one. > > Waiver: I'm not a dealer, but I do know some of them. Nobody told me to > say any of this. It's all my opinions and, I'm sure, the opinions of many > others. ;-) > > Regards, > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Julie Siebel > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 4:11 PM > To: bobl@peaktopeak.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and > gem collectors > Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! > > Bob - the ONLY LIMIT on dealers, as Kitty said, was that they also have to > contribute information other than sales to the list. That is IT. > > The only time we will MODERATE the list for this kind of thing is when > people insist on public, on-the-list, personal attacks. > > Julie Siebel > One of six admins, and list owner. From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Nov 3 20:53:16 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 3 20:53:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Add update References: <200511031850.jA3IoUUj025354@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <023e01c5e0ba$d85364d0$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <014201c5e0fb$ab6c45e0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Personally I hit "delete" for the first "AD" post, then read all about all the furor in the ensuing Re: AD posts. It takes me about 1.5 seconds to preview a post and hit the delete key if desired. Having a more interesting ad MIGHT make me less apt to delete without reading it. They haven't bothered me enough to complain about them. I also delete the extremely technical discussions about the molecular chemistry of minerals and such. I like collecting site info, rockhounding trip reports, geology discussions, even rock saw and equipment discussions. I also enjoy those little OT glimpses into the real life of the people on the list. I have a very adept delete finger, and don't mind using it. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 3:09 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Add update > Tim, >> Let us hear from a bunch of you on the list? Shall we make them sing for > their dinner? What sort things would you like to see along with the adds? > Mineral history? News about producing localities? News about mineral > shows? > What makes their specimens interesting or different? It is really up to > you? > What do you want? More of the same dull adds? > > Rock > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Nov 3 21:04:06 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 3 21:04:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADs and other subjects References: <200511032305.jA3N5rUb022070@bubbleator.drizzle.com><02bf01c5e0cb$efe4a850$12b4010a@warren> <002f01c5e0c1$cfb6c9a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <016401c5e0fd$2f292320$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> On one list I used to be on, the subject line HAD to include after the RE: one of about 5 specified categories. That way people could delete all the posts with subject lines they weren't interested in reading. In fact the list had filters that you could specify certain categories to leave out so you wouldn't even get those subjects. Maybe it would be good for Rockhounds to do that. Jeanette From tjokela at execulink.com Thu Nov 3 21:37:32 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu Nov 3 21:37:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Detroit show References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> <436A6CCC.8090801@epix.net> Message-ID: <002701c5e101$da884df0$6400a8c0@Junior> Anybody else think the Detroit show is on the way back, getting better every year? I thought that this year there were more new/recent exciting finds than I've seen in a long time, from the insane Maine elbaites to the outrageously expensive new painite; lots of Mali prehnite, Pakistani brookite and anatase, and more. A couple of the dealers had stock of absolutely outstanding quality, every piece superb and desirable. Very exciting stuff. The only letdown continues to be the displays. Some completely unlabelled and seemingly assembled at random; this area really needs to be tightened up: no labels, no thanks. The Carnegie case of mineral fakes was superb though. A case of Herkimer quartz was also excellent, all the ladies drooling over a huge sparkling pile of little diamonds. Just my 2c. Let's hear from other attendees. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com From ljwill at directcon.net Thu Nov 3 21:44:47 2005 From: ljwill at directcon.net (Williams) Date: Thu Nov 3 21:44:58 2005 Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! References: <200511040038.jA40cKUb024266@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <436AE078.262F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <00a001c5e102$e1826310$77d04fd1@Williams> Ok, Ok, enough is enough! Kriegh is right as are several of you folks out there. Scott, you would be doing all of us a disservice if you stopped contributing to the list--I may not purchase any of your offerings--nor Jim Daly's , Wrights or others, but I DO APPRECIATE being able to look and see what I don't have or think that I might have-----That is invaluable in itself and for those of you out there that can't understand it--you need to learn HOW TO LEARN! I am one of the lurkers that sits out there and deletes more e-mails than I read just because it is meaningless to me or completely assurd and not worth reading.. On occasions, I will respond as I am now with my words of wisdom and then let it rest. I have been to a lot of the places collecting minerals that you folks have talked about and I have probably cleaned up the messes that you have made there--well, somebody has made the messes. I have thought to myself many times that this list has gone down in quality in the last couple of years and that I should just bail out and drop it, but, I don't for one big reason--THERE IS NOTHING ELSE OUT THERE THAT COMES CLOSE to this list --no offense Bob Keller, because I used to really enjoy yours. Some of you have personally collected with me in the field and others have met and chatted with me---You just don't know it--as a matter of fact , there is probably a lurker or two out there that worked at one of the mines that I did when I was chief Geologist. The point is--You need to think, before you act and you need to KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. JIM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! > Bob [and list], > > One of the steps in transitioning the List to the new Admin Team was > moving the List Rules out of Aaron's personal account. Aaron raised the > issue first and asked for someone to clean them up a bit, and add a > couple rules that he never quite got around to posting. I took the task, > but the whole Admin Team, including Aaron, helped. > > Aaron specifically mentioned the omission of his long standing guideline > that AD postings needed to be reasonably infrequent (a couple or three a > month max), that the posters needed to contribute more to the list than > just ADs (contributing information, responding to posts, answering > questions etc), that ADs needed a subject line tag (so those who don't > want them can just hit delete), and they had to be on topic (as should > any post to the list). > > Most dealers are more knowledgable than the average collector. I have > always understood Aaron's policy was that dealers needed to share some > of their knowledge to 'pay' for their advertising instead of just > sponging off the list that Aaron paid for (and now the Admin Team is > paying for). > > How a dealer wants to appear to the community is their business. There > has never been a desire to regulate the content of dealer ADs other than > to ask that they be 'on topic' (we don't want ADs for something > unrelated to Rockhounding), and in reasonable taste. > > We all agree that dealers are important to our hobby, but they are not > the primary focus of this List. We want to talk about Rockhounding most > of the time. Dealers need a place in the discussion; we just wanted it > to be more than "Buy my product" over and over. > > There has been a lot of effort going on behind the scenes to keep this > List going and distribute the work that Aaron inherited from Tom Corson > many years ago. There have been some bumps; no transition is without > them, but we have tried to minimize or hide them. The new Admin Team is > very concerned with retaining the 'flavor' of this List that has made it > so successful. > > Yes, the new rules will be different in words and minor details, but I > doubt you will find much has really changed other than the players. > Thank you for being patient as we try to step into Aaron's very big > shoes. > > Kreigh > > > > > Bob Loeffler wrote: >> >> Hi Julie, >> >> Do we really need to impose this new limitation on dealers? I'll bet >> most >> of us didn't have a problem when we saw Emanuelle's ad because he sends >> them >> out approximately once a month and puts "[AD]" in the subject as we have >> strongly suggested to all dealers. He was following the rules. What >> happened to the "just click on the Delete key if you aren't interested" >> mantra? >> >> Who is to say what is good enough to be considered a good contribution? >> Pictures of mineral specimens on a dealers website seems pretty relevant >> to >> me and a good contribution (even though it is not physically in the >> e-mail >> post). I remember when it was decided to limit a dealer's ad to "website >> links only". If we are going to require "content" in his e-mails, we >> will >> be going back to exactly what we didn't want.... details about the >> specimens >> and other stuff that should be on the website and not in the e-mail. Why >> should that dealer have to take the time to write up something that is >> educational to some of the people on the list when he is already sharing >> information with us on his website!?!? Each of his pictures has info >> such >> as the location where it was found, what it is, etc. IMHO, that is an >> informative contribution. >> >> What about all of the lurkers on the list who have never shared any info >> with us? There are hundreds of them... maybe 1000s. If a lurker wants >> to >> sell a rock saw, should we require him to first post a message about >> something relevant, like his collection? Well, that's not something that >> most of us care about because we all have some type of specialization in >> our >> collections. So should it be about his favorite collecting spot? Again, >> most people won't care because this list is worldwide and we can't get to >> that location and there usually isn't enough information for us to find >> the >> location anyway. But, what about the lurkers who don't share anything >> with >> the list, but then turn around and let other people know about the list? >> They are still doing a service to the list even if we don't see it. >> Maybe >> this dealer has been doing that for the past year. Or maybe he has been >> educating his clientelle while they are in his shop. Shouldn't that be >> good >> enough? >> >> I will go along with whatever is decided, but it seems like this rule is >> being created when it really doesn't need to be. This worked just fine >> when >> Aaron was the only admin. Has anything really changed since then? No, I >> don't think so. As long as dealers are limited to one ad a month and >> they >> let us know it's an ad, that is all that's really needed. One ad per >> dealer >> per month is a lot better than a lot of the off-topic yapping that we >> have >> to deal with EACH AND EVERY WEEK. >> >> Anyway, the policy will need to explicitly say what is acceptable content >> in >> a dealer ad and what is not. Otherwise, it's a bad policy and can't >> easily >> be followed. >> >> I'm very sorry to everyone for the rant. I'm normally a quiet guy, but I >> had to say something about this one. >> >> Waiver: I'm not a dealer, but I do know some of them. Nobody told me to >> say any of this. It's all my opinions and, I'm sure, the opinions of >> many >> others. ;-) >> >> Regards, >> >> Bob >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Julie Siebel >> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 4:11 PM >> To: bobl@peaktopeak.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock >> and >> gem collectors >> Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! >> >> Bob - the ONLY LIMIT on dealers, as Kitty said, was that they also have >> to >> contribute information other than sales to the list. That is IT. >> >> The only time we will MODERATE the list for this kind of thing is when >> people insist on public, on-the-list, personal attacks. >> >> Julie Siebel >> One of six admins, and list owner. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Nov 3 22:02:48 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Nov 3 21:47:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] experential certificates in geology and mineralogy References: <200511040016.jA40GaUj007719@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <02b801c5e105$628ea9d0$6901a8c0@rock3> Jennifer, Your request for information about experiential certificates in geology and mineralogy started me wondering "What in the heck is she taking about? I never heard of anything like that. I googled " Experiential certificates" and got 750,000 hits, the third most prominent of which seemed to be this institute in Lagos Nigeria that offered a fee schedule for everything up to a doctors degree for less than $3,000; easy payment schedule no problem. "Experiential certificates, geology" still gave a respectable 46 thousand hits but included some more respectable looking institutions offering some credit for some courses under some circumstances. "Experiential certificates, mineralogy" gave only 514 hits that seemed to be mostly about things related to mineralogy. It looks like if you do the google thing you might be able to find some schools that may have some distance education programs that you might find interesting. If you are interested in gemstones the GIA (Gemalogical Institute of America) offers an extensive distance education program that is pretty good. You can, if you work diligently, achieve their Graduate Gemologist diploma in a few months, but last I heard it didn't include any references to metaphysical properties with the exception of a few references to ancient historical beliefs. Basic geology and mineralogy have traditionally been a hands on kind of thing, and is traditionally taught by teachers that drag their students into the field to lay hands on rocks to explain just what it is they are looking at from a scientific point of view. Teaching mineralogy always involves the students handling lots of specimens to become familiar with thir different physical charistics like hardness and cleavage. These courses have always been in the science departments of colleges and universities and is more or less considered a hard science although basic geology and biology courses have traditionally been a refuge for liberal arts majors trying to fulfill their science requirements and yet avoid the more rigorous hard science courses like physics, chemistry and math. I don't know of any respected educational institution that offers courses in any of the metaphysical aspects of minerals or rocks. Although we did have a customer who said he was an instructor at one of the community colleges in the Los Angeles area and taught a course in well witching. As for your request for information about "grants for research in these areas", it is not clear if you mean geology, mineralogy and or earth science or on the metaphysical aspects of minerals and rocks. I have never heard of grants for metaphysical research into rocks and minerals but perhaps others on this list have. I have heard of grants occasionally given for research into geological and mineralogical fields but these are almost always given to long established researchers, good at writing grant proposals and under the umbrella of respected universities. Sometimes the MSA chat group (Mineralogical Society of America) posts job openings but usually with the minimum requirement of a Ph.D. degree and substantial experience in fields so narrow and arcane that I am sometimes not very certain what they are. Currently there is a program at the University of Arizona, working on grant money, that is in the process of generating a database of infrared Ramen spectra of minerals. I find this very interesting and have supported it in a minor way, with donations of what ever minerals in my inventory that they want to work on. I think they have now characterized more than 1000 minerals. One of the spin-offs of this program is to provide a database for a little hand held device that you can point at minerals (it has a little laser pointer for fine work) and get an instant readout of what the mineral probably is. The thing is supposed to cost less than $10,000 when available in a few years. A wonderful device for field collecting. I can't wait to get my hands on one. I run a wholesale mineral outlet and don't solicit retail sales but a substantial part of our business is to people buying minerals for metaphysical related sales. They include some of the better known metaphysical gurus or so I am told. We frequently are asked by some of our customers what this or that mineral is good for. I always tell them I don't have any idea what it is good for in a metaphysical sense but can tell them quite a bit about its mineralogy, occurrence, industrial uses etc if they wish. They rarely wish and their eyes soon glaze over, they get twitchy and they start edging toward the nearest exit. The need to use the bathroom at this point is common. We refer them to some metaphysical publications that we carry because of demand. We used to carry the mineralogy of John Sinkankas, but for every one of those we would sell we would sell hundreds of the other publications. And we would practically have to get the customer down on the ground and beat on them to sell the mineralogy. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. And that may be the case in trying to interest most of the people that participate in this bulletin board in the metaphysical properties of minerals. Rock From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 3 21:50:50 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 3 21:50:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Detroit show In-Reply-To: <002701c5e101$da884df0$6400a8c0@Junior> References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> <436A6CCC.8090801@epix.net> <002701c5e101$da884df0$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <436AF6BA.8090703@verizon.net> Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > Anybody else think the Detroit show is on the way back, getting better > every year? I thought that this year there were more new/recent exciting > finds than I've seen in a long time, from the insane Maine elbaites to > the outrageously expensive new painite; I've never been to the Detroit show and didn't know there was one--hwo does it compare in size (if you know) to Tuscon, Denver, and Springfield? And painite--what's up with that??? http://131.215.067.048/FILES/Visible/painite/ This makes some cool reading. So many species, I haven't seen them all--this one has been analyzed by some pretty serious people. So how much were the specimens, and what did you get for what you paid? And why are you still awake at this hour? best, Don (awake doing pre-calc, which is evil and should be abolished) From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 3 23:54:40 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Thu Nov 3 23:55:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! References: <20051103162426.58977.qmail@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com><00f401c5e0ab$7a7080f0$3b00a940@gbm> <015101c5e0af$8fa94160$3b00a940@gbm> Message-ID: <000d01c5e115$03a624b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> > That fact of the matter is that this list has ALWAYS been for ANYONE > wanting to talk rocks. Why is it so evil to offer some for sale every so > often?? You all act like we're committing murder! Oh god. What is everybody's problem? It comes down to it, for me, the major difficulty with ads (posted with the "AD:" flag) is that I might not want to bother reading them. So, perhaps, it's a waste of bandwidth. Big deal. Probably about 0.001% of the bandwidth wasted by all the needless moralistic whingeing about this (and similar) hobby horses. Enough already. Frankly this sort of thing is the reason that, over the years, I have signed off from almost every non-professional e-mail distribution group I've ever subscribed to. In fact, even some of the professional ones can get a bit galling at times ... Mick From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 3 23:57:40 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Thu Nov 3 23:57:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] alt mineral properties References: <20051104034015.39359.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001101c5e115$6e6f5500$78f1edc1@mpc1> >properties some have ascribed to minerals (i.e. hanksite supposedly rids >you of avarice which might be counterproductive to collecting, I'd think). Brilliant. I have a little book I bought in San Francisco (where else?) that claims that cacoxenite is on the verge of transmuting into a gem of enormous power!! Fantastic. I guess they must have had a lot of it in stock ... Mick From info at wisdomofstones.com Fri Nov 4 03:06:26 2005 From: info at wisdomofstones.com (wisdom of stones) Date: Fri Nov 4 03:05:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] alt mineral properties In-Reply-To: <20051104034015.39359.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for your posting Tina. I appreciate your story, and have some of my own that I could share. Also, I appreciate the information on the classes. The idea of studying petrology is interesting. I'm reading R.V. Dietrich's book on stones and have been pleased with the information he included on the socio-cultural histories and uses of stone. I have some ideas/theories I work from, and the more information I discover, coupled with the work I do, the more I'm coming to believe my theories to be true. I just wish I could find these theories in writing from years ago, but I think there's a whole new area of geology/mineraology study starting to open that was practiced centuries ago and that we have just not paid attention to. Like so many things of the past however, the wisdom of their time seems to make its way into present consciousness when it's time. I used to work with crystals and am a certified Melody practitioner. I gravitated to working with stones after an experience I had at a botanical garden in 1998, though at the time I didn't realize that the experience with stones I had there would connect with the transition I'm in today, and have been in for the past two years. An interesting story, if one can believe in the possibility that stones hold vibration, or that the ways in which we physically arrange stones or how they are already arranged (as in petrology?) can have an impact on the vibrational energies that surround us and in which we interact. Sometimes I wish I could find a way to become a (well funded) research scientist working in a field of "bio-psycho-social-meta-physical-petrology" (how do you like that new field of study I just created!), as there are a number of studies I think could be interesting to do. Is there a way I could contact you off-list to talk more about your experiences, or can I give you my email address via this list? I'm not sure of how this protocol works on the list but I'd like to continue this discussion, if you're open to it. Thanks again for your posting. It's nice to know there are others on this list who perhaps hold similar thoughts and curiosities as me... and I'm definitely going to look into some of the areas of study you mentioned, especially petrology. regards, jennifer -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of tango juli Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:40 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] alt mineral properties I saw Jennifer's posting, was it yesterday or today? and the one later today about the metaphysical intersts of minerals and the query about learning about geology. To respond on the latter question, recently one of the regulars (sorry I can't attribute as I can't recall exactly who it was) posted a link to "about.com" and searching on this for information on geology. Curious and at loose ends, I followed it, and looked for courses online and was utterly delighted by what I found. I read up from a university website on crystallography and some on mineralogy (reminded again why I didn't follow geology in grad school). These can be awesome resources and provide you with structural geology, minerology and petrology, etc. The latter, petrology is the study of rock formation which is very helpful if you want to understand the formations and what you are likely to find in a particular location. Now, a few comments on metaphysical properties of rocks/mins. I've always been an informal "scientist", empirical evidence was a minimum requirement for my belief in something. I've been vaguely amused by what properties some have ascribed to minerals (i.e. hanksite supposedly rids you of avarice which might be counterproductive to collecting, I'd think). But hey, who knew bacteria caused heart disease and ulcers? A couple years ago, down on my luck and a little blue, I had just returned to Searles Lake for the annual bounty and took back 10-12 flats of hanksite and halite. In my little apartment in dark dreary Milwaukee in early winter, I sat scrubbing those hanksites of that endless black mud for days on end. In front of the TV, I would scrub, rinse, scrub rinse, dry, oil, and bag them for hours at a time. Curiously, my mood lifted, and I always felt surprisingly peaceful afterwards, like I had been meditating. Since then, I'm not too sure that minerals don't provide some benefits other than cognitive from contact with them. I'm not hopping on the new age bandwagon, mind you. But maybe there's another reason we are so attached to our rocks? :) (that's just going to send some of you over the edge, eh?) lol I also noted that when I was selling the evaporites (hanksites etc) that the EBAY specimens being sold to "new agers" were going at higher rates than those to mineral collectors for similar products. So, I made these very cool labels with a picture of the locality, the normal mineral data on the front and on the back a small blurb on the metaphysical properties. Two show organizers told me that I and my specimens would not be taken seriously by "serious collectors" if I had that on there, even on the back. :) Welcome to the group Jennifer. Lots of really awesome folks on the list who can answer just about any question you might have (our own little ready reference!) best, tina aka tangojuli --snip-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 13:03:30 -0600 From: "wisdom of stones" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Federation groups, clubs, etc. USA To: "DonH" , , "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Hi Don - Thanks for your response to my query. I understand completely what you're saying, appreciate your thoughts and don't necessarily disagree with you. I do however, have some beliefs about stones and the energies the earth holds, especially as it relates to physics and new scientific studies that are being done in the fields of vibrational science and medicine. I sometimes think the word "new age" and metaphysical are reaching a place of saturation and have become too terms that create more "reaction to" than "consideration around" as there is too much in this world we don't understand and open to reconsideration (if this is the right word).Am not wanting to debate my inquiry, work or my beliefs but was merely curious and interested in knowing more about the various groups, clubs, etc. I inquired about.... ---snip--- --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Ted at crystalgems.com Fri Nov 4 04:05:38 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Fri Nov 4 04:05:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] In response to Bob and In-Reply-To: <035f01c5e0da$e62872b0$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <002601c5e137$fdbd0000$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Julie: Good solid sensible advice; Kreigh's also. I agree with your perspective on the personal attacks, people on this list should not take their frustrations out on others of this list... especially the messengers. That's kinda like shooting your guardian angel or kneeing Jiminy cricket when he's your conscience. On a side issue; I will defend Emanuel's ad posting. That he is a lurker is obvious because he responds quickly to emails about him. We do not know why he is reticent. It may be a feeling of inferiority because he perceives that his English language skills are not equal to the list. Rather than barring him, perhaps just a warning that he needs to participate in discussions? I would love to get a quick synopsis of his mineral collecting/buying trips. Ted -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Julie Siebel Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:59 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] In response to Bob and > Hi Julie, > > Do we really need to impose this new limitation on dealers? Bob...this isn't a NEW limitation if you look back in the archives, it's simply the first time it's been posted as an actual RULE. So the inital poster of the ad (Italian Minerals) did everything right according to the POSTED list rules. Tim objected because of DISCUSSED list rules. What we are trying to do is make these ONE SET OF RULES - lol We (the admin team) for the most part don't mind dealer ads at all. But there are AD lists and there is THIS list, and we're trying to keep this information based...so if dealers want to post 2-3 times per month, all we are asking of them is that they also contribute information in the form of trip reports, responses to questions or general information. That's all. OK, so THAT was Julie-the-admin talking about the new, soon to be posted, list rules. The BIG problem I had was in the personal attacks: Against the Italian mineral guy, whose name escapes me; Tim Ficher, Kitty, Scott, Terrie...etc....and it will only get worse if we don't stop it now... Heck you should see the personal e-mails I received this time and other times about stuff like this. Regarding lurkers...well they are lurkers: They aren't posting so they aren't subject to the posting rules. You asked "Has anything really changed since then?" (THEN being since Aaron was sole admin rather than part of the team...) The answer is NO it hasn't and the rules reflect that. All we are doing is putting into actual rules what has already been discussed numerous times on this list. And again, my only personal problem with this, as an admin, has been the personal attacks involved. If any of our list members want to belong to a list that allows personal attacks - though debating is fine and encouraged - this list isn't it. Thanks HONESTLY for your input. It's always valued and we'll look forward to it when the new list rules are posted (please, God soon ;-) Julie _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From volgems at icx.net Fri Nov 4 04:20:45 2005 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Fri Nov 4 04:20:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! Message-ID: <29639543.1131106845658.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Mick, Now if you are going to start using reason and logic in this discussion, where will it all end? You stated my feelings almost exactly. Bottom line: some feel that they need "control". They are better able to tell you and me what we should be seeing and reading. I have a suggestion for them. Try using the DEL key on any post that has AD (not sure about the ones with "ADD"!) in the subject line. If they're having a really stressful day, pound the DEL key with vigor! And if it is a really suck-day to boot, let them use their middle finger to hit the DEL key! Wow! The feeling of POWER is almost too much to endure! The feeling afterwards? Total relief! Total! An almost orgasmic feeling flows over the body. I'm not sure any crystal could ever give such a feeling! Ooops, that's another topic for another day. Take care while I get my tongue out of my cheek! Remember: use the DEL key. If your key is not working, help can be had at 1-800-GET-A-CLUE John Teague Knoxville, Tennessee -----Original Message----- From: Mick Cooper Sent: Nov 4, 2005 2:54 AM To: "Scott Kleine, Great Basin Minerals" , "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! > That fact of the matter is that this list has ALWAYS been for ANYONE > wanting to talk rocks. Why is it so evil to offer some for sale every so > often?? You all act like we're committing murder! Oh god. What is everybody's problem? It comes down to it, for me, the major difficulty with ads (posted with the "AD:" flag) is that I might not want to bother reading them. So, perhaps, it's a waste of bandwidth. Big deal. Probably about 0.001% of the bandwidth wasted by all the needless moralistic whingeing about this (and similar) hobby horses. Enough already. Frankly this sort of thing is the reason that, over the years, I have signed off from almost every non-professional e-mail distribution group I've ever subscribed to. In fact, even some of the professional ones can get a bit galling at times ... Mick _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 4 06:48:11 2005 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Nov 4 06:49:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lighten up! References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> <4367982E.1060006@tenforward.com><03df01c5e039$c5c44860$6600a8c0@Emachines> <436A3780.4080808@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <000601c5e14e$e9b8fac0$20844c0c@LarryRush> Whenever there is contention on this list (which is not always bad!), it gives me an opportunity to post little things I like to do in which I try to bring a little light humor to our hobby (or is it light-headedness?). Here is a little diversion I wrote some years ago for a good collecting friend......Let's get back to the better side of mineral collecting!! The Bittersweet Apophyllite When I moved to Connecticut in the early 1960's, I met a retired physician who was also interested in minerals, and we became collecting friends. Henry was a quiet, dignified gentleman with a strong scientific mind who appreciated the marvelous aspects of crystals and mineralogy. At one point early in our friendship, he showed me an apophyllite specimen that his son had acquired for him while traveling in Brazil. While not a "world-class" piece, it was very nice, with two well-formed lustrous 3cm crystals sitting in a hand-sized chunk of matrix. It was appealing enough for me to make a light hearted attempt at humor by suggesting that I would be happy to trade him some locally collected poor quartz crystals for it. In typical fashion, he didn't ridicule this joke, but just smiled and made some innocuous answer. But these silly little remarks became the basis of a humorous tease that went on for some 25 years to follow. Whenever we were together, while collecting, at a club meeting, or just socializing, one of us would always try to have a witty proposal ready for the other about the apophyllite. It might be a dry comment about trading an old car, or the best piece in my collection, or a favor, such as free lawn mowing for life, or whatever. These quiet, sly exchanges sometimes consisted of only a few words, a quick reference, or even a look or wink at the right time. We always expected the other to have some new complicated scheme in the planning stage that was related to my getting the coveted apophyllite. Our wives were never sure what was going on with these oblique maneuverings, and probably thought we were both a little crazed (and maybe we were!), especially when the phone would ring at some odd hour, and it would be Henry, wanting to spring some new insane swap scheme on me. We tried our best (although not always successfully) to come up with novel, clever plots to try out on each other, springing them on the other as surprise moves! We used the telephone, greeting cards and telegrams, notes in a bottle, anything we could to keep the plot interesting. And, obviously, we never wanted to consummate the trade, only to keep the tease going! Henry died while on a trip in the 80's, and a short time later, I learned that he had included in his will a mention of the apophyllite. In his typical, soft spoken, dignified manner he had left the piece to me. The almost constant lighthearted teasing of the past 25 years had come to its end along with the life of my friend. He had managed to get the last joke in. The apophyllite now sits in a prominent position in my collection. Whenever I look at it, I remember Henry, and our long-term joke, and realize that sometimes it is just those kind of silly interplays between people that help make true, long lasting friendships. I know that I won't part with this specimen in my lifetime, it has just too much of a bittersweet memory attached to it. Larry Rush Guilford, CT From ki3u at hotmail.com Fri Nov 4 07:12:14 2005 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Fri Nov 4 07:12:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lighten up! In-Reply-To: <000601c5e14e$e9b8fac0$20844c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: I like your anecdote - it reinforces my experience that even when I am experimenting with minerals, say alone by myself examining tiny crystals under a microscope, I am often wanting to have someone walk in so that I can pull them over and say: have a look! Berj / KI3U >From: "Lawrence Rush" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: [Rockhounds] Lighten up! >Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 09:48:11 -0500 > >Whenever there is contention on this list (which is not always bad!), it >gives me an opportunity to post little things I like to do in which I try >to bring a little light humor to our hobby (or is it light-headedness?). >Here is a little diversion I wrote some years ago for a good collecting >friend......Let's get back to the better side of mineral collecting!! > > > > > >The Bittersweet Apophyllite > > > >When I moved to Connecticut in the early 1960's, I met a retired physician >who was also interested in minerals, and we became collecting friends. >Henry was a quiet, dignified gentleman with a strong scientific mind who >appreciated the marvelous aspects of crystals and mineralogy. At one point >early in our friendship, he showed me an apophyllite specimen that his son >had acquired for him while traveling in Brazil. While not a "world-class" >piece, it was very nice, with two well-formed lustrous 3cm crystals sitting >in a hand-sized chunk of matrix. It was appealing enough for me to make a >light hearted attempt at humor by suggesting that I would be happy to trade >him some locally collected poor quartz crystals for it. In typical fashion, >he didn't ridicule this joke, but just smiled and made some innocuous >answer. But these silly little remarks became the basis of a humorous tease >that went on for some 25 years to follow. Whenever we were together, while >collecting, at a club meeting, or just socializing, one of us would always >try to have a witty proposal ready for the other about the apophyllite. It >might be a dry comment about trading an old car, or the best piece in my >collection, or a favor, such as free lawn mowing for life, or whatever. >These quiet, sly exchanges sometimes consisted of only a few words, a quick >reference, or even a look or wink at the right time. We always expected the >other to have some new complicated scheme in the planning stage that was >related to my getting the coveted apophyllite. Our wives were never sure >what was going on with these oblique maneuverings, and probably thought we >were both a little crazed (and maybe we were!), especially when the phone >would ring at some odd hour, and it would be Henry, wanting to spring some >new insane swap scheme on me. We tried our best (although not always >successfully) to come up with novel, clever plots to try out on each other, >springing them on the other as surprise moves! We used the telephone, >greeting cards and telegrams, notes in a bottle, anything we could to keep >the plot interesting. And, obviously, we never wanted to consummate the >trade, only to keep the tease going! > > > >Henry died while on a trip in the 80's, and a short time later, I learned >that he had included in his will a mention of the apophyllite. In his >typical, soft spoken, dignified manner he had left the piece to me. The >almost constant lighthearted teasing of the past 25 years had come to its >end along with the life of my friend. > > > >He had managed to get the last joke in. > > > >The apophyllite now sits in a prominent position in my collection. Whenever >I look at it, I remember Henry, and our long-term joke, and realize that >sometimes it is just those kind of silly interplays between people that >help make true, long lasting friendships. I know that I won't part with >this specimen in my lifetime, it has just too much of a bittersweet memory >attached to it. > > > >Larry Rush > >Guilford, CT > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From albalmer at att.net Fri Nov 4 07:27:18 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Nov 4 07:27:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] experential certificates in geology and mineralogy In-Reply-To: <02b801c5e105$628ea9d0$6901a8c0@rock3> References: <200511040016.jA40GaUj007719@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <02b801c5e105$628ea9d0$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <436B7DD6.4010808@att.net> Rock Currier wrote: > Jennifer, > > Your request for information about experiential certificates in geology and > mineralogy started me wondering "What in the heck is she taking about? I > never heard of anything like that. I've heard the term. It seems to mean getting a diploma or certificate without the need to do any actual studying, based on your "life experience" and your ability to pay. From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Fri Nov 4 07:32:06 2005 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Fri Nov 4 07:32:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Round labels References: <200511030204.jA324KBj007226@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <001001c5e068$60cc4eb0$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <000d01c5e154$ebe2a9d0$a9defea9@TOSHIBA> Thank you all for the attention. What I need are those small sticky round labels, of around 5-6mm, numbered from 1 to 8000, or so. Hama is a supplier here in Europe of this material - ref. 1963 in their catalog - but only in the range 1 to1000. Regards. Armando ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 11:18 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Round labels > Armando > > Perhaps you could be a little more specific in what you need in the way of > labels. What are they for, gluing on specimens? Do you need these labels > to > have sequential numbers on them? Do they need to have sticky backs? Do > they > really need to be round? I have a little program where I can print out > sequential numbers with letters as a suffix and or prefix like RHC441, > RHC442 etc but they would only be on plane paper. I would be glad to make > them for you but they would not have sticky backs. Any particular font, > font > size, color or style you prefer? Do you want or need a border around them? > Exactly how many of what range of numbers do you want? All of these things > the program does easily and very quickly. What numbers do you need > duplicates of and how many? > > Rock > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From albalmer at att.net Fri Nov 4 07:41:33 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Nov 4 07:41:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] List Dad In-Reply-To: <002f01c5e0c1$cfb6c9a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> References: <200511032305.jA3N5rUb022070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <02bf01c5e0cb$efe4a850$12b4010a@warren> <002f01c5e0c1$cfb6c9a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <436B812D.8080706@att.net> John Siebel wrote: > Hey List, > > The new Admin rules should be posted in the next few days and we'll all have > a chance to comment on them. In the mean time may I suggest that we all act > like civilized adults and not attack the folks that make us a community of > common interest. > > You will note in the new rules that I have volunteered (dragged kicking and > screaming) into the role of "List Dad" to compliment Kitty's "List Mom". > These titles assume (unfortunately) that some of us act like children on > occasion. Let's not. So why use such "titles"? Especially, why be so silly and childish as to incorporate such into your new rules? It seems that you are trying to treat us like children. We're not. I was privileged to have an outstanding father for 60 years. You don't measure up. > > I really enjoy this list and I start each day looking forward to reading > your posts and responding when I have a clue. I believe in the value of > information shared openly. Please respect each other. From steve at stephenanderson.us Fri Nov 4 09:41:45 2005 From: steve at stephenanderson.us (Stephen Anderson) Date: Fri Nov 4 09:41:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bachman Mine, Hellertown MATULAITE In-Reply-To: References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> Message-ID: <7fb943d6f3f2fc0de7c67e3d7fbafbea@stephenanderson.us> Thanks Nate! On Nov 3, 2005, at 1:29 PM, Nathan Martin wrote: > Steve, > > It appears to be a plain-looking white phosphate mineral. > CaAl18(PO4)12(OH)20?28(H2O) > > You may want to check out the following websites that I got from a > google search using > MATULAITE "BACHMAN IRON MINE" > > http://rruff.geo.arizona.edu/doclib/am/vol65/AM65_1065.pdf > http://webmineral.com/data/Matulaite.shtml > http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~adg/adg-pspimages.html (has best pictures, > including close-ups if you click on the photo) > > There are also some published references on the Bachman Mine: > > Bachman Mine, Hellertown, Northampton Co., Pennsylvania, USA > Ref.: Rocks & Min.: 15:222; Min.Rec.: Sep-Oct 1980:311. An iron mine > in phosphorus-rich ore. Ore is brecciated and mineralized Cambrian > quartzite. > > Good luck - I hope that you find some! > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > On 11/3/05, Stephen Anderson wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I live on a piece of land in Hellertown, PA (Northampton County). I >> understand that the Bachman Iron Mine once occupied part of the >> mountainside in my woods where much rare MATULAITE has been found. >> >> Does anyone have any information regarding BACHMAN IRON MINE, or >> MATULAITE that they could share with me? >> >> Thanks, >> Steve >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From steve at stephenanderson.us Fri Nov 4 09:43:02 2005 From: steve at stephenanderson.us (Stephen Anderson) Date: Fri Nov 4 09:43:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bachman Mine, Hellertown MATULAITE In-Reply-To: <000201c5e0a5$47852160$6402a8c0@CHAS05951D9DC8> References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> <000201c5e0a5$47852160$6402a8c0@CHAS05951D9DC8> Message-ID: <193ab5e65cc5bb1baf0b24a1f163f4f1@stephenanderson.us> Thanks Charles... even though I don't know what 'micromount potential' even means. Steve On Nov 3, 2005, at 1:34 PM, Charles Creekmur wrote: > Steve, > Go to www.mindat.org and look under the "m's" for your mineral and you > will find that your Bachman Mine is the type locality for the species. > Several other nice phosphates are also found there. The location > should have fantastic micromount potential. Lucky you. > Charles > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Fri Nov 4 09:55:36 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Fri Nov 4 09:57:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Emailing: 2005 NAMIBIA TOUR.doc Message-ID: <000801c5e169$286ec190$cd3d27c4@privatehome> Hi List, This is the report I have just compiled of our recent Tour of Namibia. This article (with photos still to come) will be published in the South African Lapidary Magazine at the end of this year and will be copyrighted. At the moment, Este Steyn is busy compiling a DVD of photos taken on the tour by various participants. Some of these photos will also then appear in the South African Lapiday Magazine (Vol. 37 No. 3). As this is quite a task, it will still take some time, as she has to make a selection from about 10 000 photos. This DVD will also be available at a later stage and details can be obtained from Este at este@flintsteyns.co.za. Enjoy reading about our trip Regards, Horst --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html application/msword --- From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Fri Nov 4 10:28:21 2005 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Fri Nov 4 10:28:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw Message-ID: <20051104182821.71590.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have been searching for information on the Highland Park 14" saw. On Bob's Rock Shop, I see where many people have been also looking for information. Is it no longer manufactured? I found no hits regarding Highland Park Saws on my on line search. I am looking for a manual but any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks June __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From rocks4u at prodigy.net Fri Nov 4 10:21:52 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Fri Nov 4 10:33:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw References: <20051104182821.71590.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <436BA6C0.000003.01464@WES-MEDION-1918> This line of Lapidary saws is now maintained by Diamond Pacific Corp. -------Original Message------- From: June Young Date: 11/04/05 10:28:49 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw I have been searching for information on the Highland Park 14" saw. On Bob's Rock Shop, I see where many people have been also looking for information. Is it no longer manufactured? I found no hits regarding Highland Park Saws on my on line search. I am looking for a manual but any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks June __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From efkern at earthlink.net Fri Nov 4 10:41:02 2005 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Fri Nov 4 10:41:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spot On / List Dad References: <200511032305.jA3N5rUb022070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <02bf01c5e0cb$efe4a850$12b4010a@warren><002f01c5e0c1$cfb6c9a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <436B812D.8080706@att.net> Message-ID: <000901c5e16f$4f4c7f40$33fdb3d1@TheBlackAdder> Jeesh! It's a figure of speech; List Dad and List Mom, I think appropriate and spot on. Some adult supervision IS required at this point to quench the inane sniping that has infected some list members. Now stop already! Al, nobody wants to replace the memory of your Dad, I'm quite sure of that, so please desist. Erich Kern ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Balmer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] List Dad John Siebel wrote: > Hey List, > > The new Admin rules should be posted in the next few days and we'll all have > a chance to comment on them. In the mean time may I suggest that we all act > like civilized adults and not attack the folks that make us a community of > common interest. > > You will note in the new rules that I have volunteered (dragged kicking and > screaming) into the role of "List Dad" to compliment Kitty's "List Mom". > These titles assume (unfortunately) that some of us act like children on > occasion. Let's not. So why use such "titles"? Especially, why be so silly and childish as to incorporate such into your new rules? It seems that you are trying to treat us like children. We're not. I was privileged to have an outstanding father for 60 years. You don't measure up. > > I really enjoy this list and I start each day looking forward to reading > your posts and responding when I have a clue. I believe in the value of > information shared openly. Please respect each other. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From samuelbehar at rcn.com Fri Nov 4 11:03:08 2005 From: samuelbehar at rcn.com (samuelbehar@rcn.com) Date: Fri Nov 4 11:03:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cutting agates Message-ID: I have been using a Barranca 10" slab/trim saw (PF-10) with its original blade (the specs say 10" x .040 303 Professional continuous rim blade). I use Lubri-Kool oil with mist killer from Kingsley North as the lubricant. I have been happy with its performance, but occasionally I end up trying to cut something that just won't cut. It seems to mostly happen with agates. For example, I remember purchasing a Brazilian nodule (which was probably too big for my saw) which I could not cut, but it also recently happened with a much smaller nodule as well. Uusually what happens, it the saw will cut into the stone almost an inch, but then the the rock starts riding up on the blade. Despite trying to start over, little progress is made. What I would like to know is whether there are any solutions to this problem. Is my saw not powerful enough for these agates, or would a different blade or lubricant help? Thanks, Sam From tim at orerockon.com Fri Nov 4 11:04:33 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Nov 4 11:04:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw In-Reply-To: <20051104182821.71590.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051104182821.71590.qmail@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104105454.024b42c0@orerockon.com> What do you need to know about the saw? Many of us have Highland Park saws. I have the 14" as well. Diamond Pacific _might_ have a photocopy of the original manual available, but they generally do not "support" the saw brands that they purchased (i.e. HP, Contempo, Beacon Star, Frantom) except to repair gears, vises, etc. Even then, I find I can get parts cheaper locally or through the net i.e. McMaster-Carr. At 10:28 AM 11/4/2005, you wrote: >I have been searching for information on the Highland >Park 14" saw. On Bob's Rock Shop, I see where many >people have been also looking for information. Is it >no longer manufactured? I found no hits regarding >Highland Park Saws on my on line search. I am looking >for a manual but any information would be greatly >appreciated. >Thanks >June Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Fri Nov 4 11:16:06 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Nov 4 11:16:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cutting agates In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104110530.024b4408@orerockon.com> 90% of the time when a saw refuses to cut, the lubricant is to blame. Lubri-Kool is basically mineral oil; it is not really a lubricant. Despite what Kingsley-North might have you believe, it is not the best _lubricant_ for diamond blades (although I would bet that it is a better _coolant_ than Pella). Use a lubricating oil such as Shell Pella instead. Sharpen the blade by cutting a silicon carbide wheel or a brick before you try to cut with it again. Lubricating oils do not allow the blade to dull since they do not flash at the point of contact between the rock and the diamond/matrix, thus allowing the metal to heat up and flow over the diamond, and therefore dulling the blade over time. I use Pella with MK-303s in my smaller saws (8-14") and have never had to sharpen one. At 11:03 AM 11/4/2005, you wrote: >I have been using a Barranca 10" slab/trim saw (PF-10) with its >original blade (the specs say 10" x .040 303 Professional >continuous rim blade). I use Lubri-Kool oil with mist killer from >Kingsley North as the lubricant. I have been happy with its >performance, but occasionally I end up trying to cut something >that just won't cut. It seems to mostly happen with agates. For >example, I remember purchasing a Brazilian nodule (which was >probably too big for my saw) which I could not cut, but it also >recently happened with a much smaller nodule as well. >Uusually what happens, it the saw will cut into the stone almost >an inch, but then the the rock starts riding up on the blade. >Despite trying to start over, little progress is made. > >What I would like to know is whether there are any solutions to >this problem. Is my saw not powerful enough for these agates, >or would a different blade or lubricant help? > >Thanks, > >Sam Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From albalmer at att.net Fri Nov 4 11:26:36 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Nov 4 11:26:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spot On / List Dad In-Reply-To: <000901c5e16f$4f4c7f40$33fdb3d1@TheBlackAdder> References: <200511032305.jA3N5rUb022070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <02bf01c5e0cb$efe4a850$12b4010a@warren><002f01c5e0c1$cfb6c9a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <436B812D.8080706@att.net> <000901c5e16f$4f4c7f40$33fdb3d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <436BB5EC.7060706@att.net> Erich Kern wrote: > Jeesh! > > It's a figure of speech; List Dad and List Mom, I think appropriate and spot on. > Some adult supervision IS required at this point to quench the inane sniping that > has infected some list members. Now stop already! You are, of course, entitled to express your opinion, just as I am, but let's let John defend his own inanities. As our official "list dad", he shouldn't need help. > Al, nobody wants to replace the > memory of your Dad, I'm quite sure of that, so please desist. > > Erich Kern > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Balmer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 7:41 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] List Dad > > > John Siebel wrote: >> Hey List, >> >> The new Admin rules should be posted in the next few days and we'll all have >> a chance to comment on them. In the mean time may I suggest that we all act >> like civilized adults and not attack the folks that make us a community of >> common interest. >> >> You will note in the new rules that I have volunteered (dragged kicking and >> screaming) into the role of "List Dad" to compliment Kitty's "List Mom". >> These titles assume (unfortunately) that some of us act like children on >> occasion. Let's not. > > So why use such "titles"? Especially, why be so silly and childish as to > incorporate such into your new rules? It seems that you are trying to > treat us like children. We're not. > > I was privileged to have an outstanding father for 60 years. You don't > measure up. >> I really enjoy this list and I start each day looking forward to reading >> your posts and responding when I have a clue. I believe in the value of >> information shared openly. Please respect each other. > From albalmer at att.net Fri Nov 4 11:37:44 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Nov 4 11:37:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cutting agates In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104110530.024b4408@orerockon.com> References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104110530.024b4408@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <436BB888.1020005@att.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > 90% of the time when a saw refuses to cut, the lubricant is to blame. > Lubri-Kool is basically mineral oil; it is not really a lubricant. > Despite what Kingsley-North might have you believe, it is not the best > _lubricant_ for diamond blades (although I would bet that it is a better > _coolant_ than Pella). Use a lubricating oil such as Shell Pella > instead. Sharpen the blade by cutting a silicon carbide wheel or a brick > before you try to cut with it again. Lubricating oils do not allow the > blade to dull since they do not flash at the point of contact between > the rock and the diamond/matrix, thus allowing the metal to heat up and > flow over the diamond, and therefore dulling the blade over time. I use > Pella with MK-303s in my smaller saws (8-14") and have never had to > sharpen one. > > At 11:03 AM 11/4/2005, you wrote: > >> I have been using a Barranca 10" slab/trim saw (PF-10) with its >> original blade (the specs say 10" x .040 303 Professional >> continuous rim blade). I use Lubri-Kool oil with mist killer from >> Kingsley North as the lubricant. I have been happy with its >> performance, but occasionally I end up trying to cut something >> that just won't cut. It seems to mostly happen with agates. For >> example, I remember purchasing a Brazilian nodule (which was >> probably too big for my saw) which I could not cut, but it also >> recently happened with a much smaller nodule as well. >> Uusually what happens, it the saw will cut into the stone almost >> an inch, but then the the rock starts riding up on the blade. >> Despite trying to start over, little progress is made. >> >> What I would like to know is whether there are any solutions to >> this problem. Is my saw not powerful enough for these agates, >> or would a different blade or lubricant help? >> For some reason, I didn't see your original post. As Tim says, it may need sharpening. If that doesn't help, check the blade alignment. You don't say how long you've been using it, but blades do eventually wear out. I'm not familiar with the saw, but it has a 1/3 HP motor, which should be adequate if the power feed rate is not too great. I haven't had a problem using a food-grade mineral oil in cutting agate on a 10" saw. From tjokela at execulink.com Fri Nov 4 12:14:57 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Fri Nov 4 12:14:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Detroit show, painite References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us><436A6CCC.8090801@epix.net> <002701c5e101$da884df0$6400a8c0@Junior> <436AF6BA.8090703@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000901c5e17c$6d2c9600$6400a8c0@Junior> No comparison btw Detroit and Tucson. Detroit is one big arena at Macomb Community College, nothing like the Beirut-esque downtown Detroit area of years past. The show is sadly rich in the jewellery/trinket/dyed agate/fake fossil side of the business, but still attracts some really good high-end dealers. None from overseas, though Gilbert Gauthier has attended in the past. It and the Rochester Symposium are the main happenings in the area. I've been going for over a decade, and I dunno what it was about this year, but it was a blast. The painites are running about $400 for a loose dark brown prismatic crystal of 6mm or so. More if nicely terminated. There were only a few at the show to drool over, and I didn't bring one home as they were a bit small for my personal collection and I've few clients willing to pay so much for so little. Still nice to see the stuff. All the pertinent links are below, and make for some excellent reading. http://minerals.gps.caltech.edu/FILES/Visible/painite/Index.htm http://www.palagems.com/painite.htm http://www.irocks.com/painite.html http://ke4gems.com/Painite.html http://rock-logic.tripod.com/painite.html Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 12:50 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Detroit show > Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > >> Anybody else think the Detroit show is on the way back, getting better >> every year? I thought that this year there were more new/recent exciting >> finds than I've seen in a long time, from the insane Maine elbaites to >> the outrageously expensive new painite; > > > I've never been to the Detroit show and didn't know there was one--hwo > does it compare in size (if you know) to Tuscon, Denver, and Springfield? > > And painite--what's up with that??? > > http://131.215.067.048/FILES/Visible/painite/ > > This makes some cool reading. So many species, I haven't seen them > all--this one has been analyzed by some pretty serious people. So how > much were the specimens, and what did you get for what you paid? And why > are you still awake at this hour? > > best, > Don (awake doing pre-calc, which is evil and should be abolished) > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jonee at epix.net Fri Nov 4 12:37:34 2005 From: jonee at epix.net (E.L. Jones) Date: Fri Nov 4 12:37:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring!-unsubscribe In-Reply-To: <000d01c5e115$03a624b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> References: <20051103162426.58977.qmail@web31512.mail.mud.yahoo.com><00f401c5e0ab$7a7080f0$3b00a940@gbm> <015101c5e0af$8fa94160$3b00a940@gbm> <000d01c5e115$03a624b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <436BC68E.2090003@epix.net> Dear List, Tis a bit foolish, what I am about to do because the people that need to hear this message have their heads so far ...well they are so out of touch with reality that they can't see any problems with their personal behavior. The mods said this was discussion was closed for the time being and to please refrain from posting. Yet there have been 15+ posts afterwards--I guess at least 15+ people think rules only apply to others. Tantrums continue because the way to act when you are caught in the cookie jar is to attack others. Some here may be outstanding researchers and world class mineral collectors but as for being savvy "netizens" they are selfish, arrogant egos who think the world of minerology lives and dies by their participation. Do they really believe their acidic opinions/snipes are more important than peace and civility on this list? There isn't a one of you that this list has to have to survive. The reality is you need the list more than it needs you. Even if you disagreed with thetopic closure-- you were asked to contact the moderators directly and not post to the list. Why? Not that you wouldn't be heard but that you would not disrupt and disturb ( not to mention dishonor) the list. You've mistaken freedom to act for unself diciplined selfish udderances which your ego won't let you see them for what they are. You don't care either and you refuse to help govern yourself and expect others to do what you weakspined, mouth pieces won't do for yourselves. The response to the insistance that everyone contribute shows that that admonition was well founded and wise. As at any place wisdom is shared there will be parasites. The parasites showed who they were when someone took away their freeride. You didn't resond to moderators because it was too hard to look up their addresses but you had opinion "diarreah" and had to go right then. This was one of my favorite lists, however, I can't abide the disrespect towards the moderators for doing the job no one else would take or the hoggish disrespect to other members-- nor can I abide the arrogance that so many have shown in keeping this thread going. I am throwing myself on my cliche`sword ...I'll feel better for it in the morning. I won't have to sit and watch something I dearly love be turned into just another venue of venom. I choose to vote with my feet and in leaving, hopefully, some of you "adults" will come to realize how really unique and valuable it is before you tear it down. No one personaltiy-- no matter how expert, is worth keeping on a list when "he" fails to respect it. You'll forever live with the bad compromise. Sincerely, Elton Jones From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Fri Nov 4 12:40:44 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (michael) Date: Fri Nov 4 12:40:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Detroit show, painite References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> <436A6CCC.8090801@epix.net> <002701c5e101$da884df0$6400a8c0@Junior> <436AF6BA.8090703@verizon.net> <000901c5e17c$6d2c9600$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <019a01c5e180$078bc0b0$6502a8c0@heathercomp> speaking of Painites, it's kind of funny. As I understand it, there is currently an embargo against Burma because of it's human rights record. Obviously, this should be a very big problem for the gem and mineral community, as technically, materials from this country are no longer legal to import. so, why is it that you see this material for sale? You can't say it was brought into the US years ago, because until very recently, it was non-existent. You can lie about the origins of some materials (ruby and sapphire) in order to import them, but this also drops the price in some cases...as quite often Burmese material commands a premium. so? all of you mineral dealers/gem dealers out there.....are any of you selling Burmese materials? have you been warned against it? are your sources drying up???? I'm very curious to see how this is affecting the mineral and gemstone markets Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jokela Jr." To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Detroit show, painite > No comparison btw Detroit and Tucson. Detroit is one big arena at Macomb > Community College, nothing like the Beirut-esque downtown Detroit area of > years past. The show is sadly rich in the jewellery/trinket/dyed > agate/fake fossil side of the business, but still attracts some really > good high-end dealers. None from overseas, though Gilbert Gauthier has > attended in the past. It and the Rochester Symposium are the main > happenings in the area. I've been going for over a decade, and I dunno > what it was about this year, but it was a blast. > > The painites are running about $400 for a loose dark brown prismatic > crystal of 6mm or so. More if nicely terminated. There were only a few at > the show to drool over, and I didn't bring one home as they were a bit > small for my personal collection and I've few clients willing to pay so > much for so little. Still nice to see the stuff. All the pertinent links > are below, and make for some excellent reading. > > http://minerals.gps.caltech.edu/FILES/Visible/painite/Index.htm > > http://www.palagems.com/painite.htm > > http://www.irocks.com/painite.html > > http://ke4gems.com/Painite.html > > http://rock-logic.tripod.com/painite.html > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DonH" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 12:50 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Detroit show > > >> Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: >> >>> Anybody else think the Detroit show is on the way back, getting better >>> every year? I thought that this year there were more new/recent exciting >>> finds than I've seen in a long time, from the insane Maine elbaites to >>> the outrageously expensive new painite; >> >> >> I've never been to the Detroit show and didn't know there was one--hwo >> does it compare in size (if you know) to Tuscon, Denver, and Springfield? >> >> And painite--what's up with that??? >> >> http://131.215.067.048/FILES/Visible/painite/ >> >> This makes some cool reading. So many species, I haven't seen them >> all--this one has been analyzed by some pretty serious people. So how >> much were the specimens, and what did you get for what you paid? And why >> are you still awake at this hour? >> >> best, >> Don (awake doing pre-calc, which is evil and should be abolished) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Nov 4 10:39:58 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Nov 4 12:42:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] List Dad References: <200511032305.jA3N5rUb022070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <02bf01c5e0cb$efe4a850$12b4010a@warren><002f01c5e0c1$cfb6c9a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <436B812D.8080706@att.net> Message-ID: <00d701c5e16f$2f036be0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Al, I agree with you that these terms are a bit condescending and the Admin team is working to replace them. Perhaps, "Flak-Catcher"? I reluctantly stepped into this role after other team members were receiving an excessive number of personal attacks - like yours. Such crap has no place on this list. Period. And, I too had an outstanding father. One thing that he taught me is that mutual respect is not an "inanity" that needs defending. If you must continue this conversation, please do it off list. John Siebel john@pandemoniumgraphics.com > So why use such "titles"? Especially, why be so silly and childish as to > incorporate such into your new rules? It seems that you are trying to > treat us like children. We're not. > > I was privileged to have an outstanding father for 60 years. You don't > measure up. > let's let John defend his own inanities From pttrefrn at triwest.net Fri Nov 4 12:50:55 2005 From: pttrefrn at triwest.net (Ron and Pat Potter-Efron) Date: Fri Nov 4 13:01:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lighten up! References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> <4367982E.1060006@tenforward.com><03df01c5e039$c5c44860$6600a8c0@Emachines><436A3780.4080808@tenforward.com> <000601c5e14e$e9b8fac0$20844c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <00d301c5e183$521fac60$6400a8c0@triwest.net> Thanks for that story, Larry, and sharing the friendship. Pat Potter-Efron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 8:48 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Lighten up! > Whenever there is contention on this list (which is not always bad!), it > gives me an opportunity to post little things I like to do in which I try to > bring a little light humor to our hobby (or is it light-headedness?). Here > is a little diversion I wrote some years ago for a good collecting > friend......Let's get back to the better side of mineral collecting!! > > > > > > The Bittersweet Apophyllite > > > > When I moved to Connecticut in the early 1960's, I met a retired physician > who was also interested in minerals, and we became collecting friends. Henry > was a quiet, dignified gentleman with a strong scientific mind who > appreciated the marvelous aspects of crystals and mineralogy. At one point > early in our friendship, he showed me an apophyllite specimen that his son > had acquired for him while traveling in Brazil. While not a "world-class" > piece, it was very nice, with two well-formed lustrous 3cm crystals sitting > in a hand-sized chunk of matrix. It was appealing enough for me to make a > light hearted attempt at humor by suggesting that I would be happy to trade > him some locally collected poor quartz crystals for it. In typical fashion, > he didn't ridicule this joke, but just smiled and made some innocuous > answer. But these silly little remarks became the basis of a humorous tease > that went on for some 25 years to follow. Whenever we were together, while > collecting, at a club meeting, or just socializing, one of us would always > try to have a witty proposal ready for the other about the apophyllite. It > might be a dry comment about trading an old car, or the best piece in my > collection, or a favor, such as free lawn mowing for life, or whatever. > These quiet, sly exchanges sometimes consisted of only a few words, a quick > reference, or even a look or wink at the right time. We always expected the > other to have some new complicated scheme in the planning stage that was > related to my getting the coveted apophyllite. Our wives were never sure > what was going on with these oblique maneuverings, and probably thought we > were both a little crazed (and maybe we were!), especially when the phone > would ring at some odd hour, and it would be Henry, wanting to spring some > new insane swap scheme on me. We tried our best (although not always > successfully) to come up with novel, clever plots to try out on each other, > springing them on the other as surprise moves! We used the telephone, > greeting cards and telegrams, notes in a bottle, anything we could to keep > the plot interesting. And, obviously, we never wanted to consummate the > trade, only to keep the tease going! > > > > Henry died while on a trip in the 80's, and a short time later, I learned > that he had included in his will a mention of the apophyllite. In his > typical, soft spoken, dignified manner he had left the piece to me. The > almost constant lighthearted teasing of the past 25 years had come to its > end along with the life of my friend. > > > > He had managed to get the last joke in. > > > > The apophyllite now sits in a prominent position in my collection. Whenever > I look at it, I remember Henry, and our long-term joke, and realize that > sometimes it is just those kind of silly interplays between people that help > make true, long lasting friendships. I know that I won't part with this > specimen in my lifetime, it has just too much of a bittersweet memory > attached to it. > > > > Larry Rush > > Guilford, CT > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pbhewitt at comcast.net Fri Nov 4 13:26:34 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Fri Nov 4 13:27:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104110530.024b4408@orerockon.com> <436BB888.1020005@att.net> Message-ID: <00a601c5e186$6f80b3a0$6401a8c0@maingear> I have been using my Lortone 10" saw for many years with Lubricool in it. It cuts anything and everything I put in it. My problem is not with hard material though ... it is with soft. I have some very pretty conglomerate and limestone that I would love to slab and polish but they are so soft that the residue gums up my oil and therefore renders the saw useless unless I change it. It only takes a few cuts too and I dont feel like going through the hassle of cleaning it out every day. Is there a better method for cutting softer materials? Maybe a saw that runs in water and has a sump that will let the crap fall to the bottom? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated ... I have LOT of material that I want to cut. Paul in Marietta From murowchickj at umkc.edu Fri Nov 4 12:36:15 2005 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (James Murowchick) Date: Fri Nov 4 13:34:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral analyses In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104110530.024b4408@orerockon.com> Message-ID: I don't think this counts as an ad--more a reminder of a service I can offer to rockhounds. Some of you may remember a thread from last Spring about getting samples analyzed/identified. I offered to perform XRD analyses for minimal cost (details to be worked out on an individual basis). There were a number of responses that ranged from "You're nuts!" and "You're going to get swamped with requests" to genuine inquiries. Surprisingly, to date, I have had only TWO requests for analyses, both from the same person. Since my (and apparently, those of some of you) fears have not come to pass, I want to make the offer again. If you have a sample that you would like me to run through the XRD for identification, please contact me. So far, typical costs are about $10-30/sample. I can also perform optical examination (determine optical properties, indices of refraction, etc., and if you want to go whole hog, I might be able to do chemical analyses (by ICPMS) as well, depending on what you're looking for. ICPMS analyses might run $40-100/sample, depending on the amount of sample preparation that is involved. The charges for the analyses go toward supplies and maintenance of the equipment (a replacement X-ray tube costs about $2500), and the samples make excellent "real-life" problems or examples for my mineralogy and geochemistry classes. Jim Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor, Mineralogy & Geochemistry Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 murowchickj@umkc.edu From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Nov 4 14:20:24 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 4 14:20:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: experiential certificates in geology and mineralogy Message-ID: Many recognized colleges and universities do offer credit for knowledge gained in experience. In order to recieve this type credit, one is required to pass an exam similar to the SAT or ACT. Depending on the individual educational institution and the desired credit(s) and field, i.e. geology, mineralogy, chemistry, the tests are given to verify real knowledge. And of course there are the unscrupulous degree for cash programs out there, but a quality employer can usually discern where a diploma came from with only a small amount of effort.  Glenn ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ MSN Premium brings together everything you need on the Internet in 1 place, including PC security! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Nov 4 14:40:01 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 4 14:40:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... In-Reply-To: <00a601c5e186$6f80b3a0$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: There it is! You answered your own question! We use a ceramic tile saw at home with a diamond blade and water and it works great on softer stuff. For agate and other hard material we use our club's oil lubed saws. Glenn From: "Paul" <pbhewitt@comcast.net> Subject: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 16:26:34 -0500 I have been using my Lortone 10" saw for many years with Lubricool in it. It cuts anything and everything I put in it. My problem is not with hard material though ... it is with soft. I have some very pretty conglomerate and limestone that I would love to slab and polish but they are so soft that the residue gums up my oil and therefore renders the saw useless unless I change it. It only takes a few cuts too and I dont feel like going through the hassle of cleaning it out every day. Is there a better method for cutting softer materials? ****Maybe a saw that runs in water and has a sump that will let the crap fall to the bottom?*****  Any suggestions would be  greatly appreciated ... I have LOT of material that I want to cut. Paul in Marietta ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Create your own custom mailing list called Groups with MSN Hotmail ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Nov 4 14:44:33 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 4 14:44:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Emailing: 2005 NAMIBIA TOUR.doc In-Reply-To: <000801c5e169$286ec190$cd3d27c4@privatehome> Message-ID: Horst, Please send a link as the list program deletes attachments. I look forward to reading your report. Thanks! Glenn From: "Horst Windisch" <horstwindisch@absamail.co.za> Subject: [Rockhounds] Emailing: 2005 NAMIBIA TOUR.doc ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation - the next best thing to being there! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Nov 4 14:49:54 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 4 14:49:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] turquoise analyses In-Reply-To: <110220051736.9863.4368F9220003C84100002687215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Finally got to read most of this truly interesting and enlightening material about one of my favorite minerals. Thanks Pete! Glenn {:={D} From: pjmodreski@att.net Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] turquoise analyses http://www.cerrilloshills.org/mines linked to it is a page referencing analyses of turquoise, http://www.cerrilloshills.org/mines/turq03.htm Pete Modreski ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It's free! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 4 15:15:16 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Nov 4 15:15:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bachman Mine, Hellertown MATULAITE In-Reply-To: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> Message-ID: <20051104231516.10627.qmail@web34310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Steve, According to MAS/MILS, the Bachman Mine is located at 40.561389 deg. N, -75.334722 deg. W. I'd like to help you look for it next summer. Unfortunately, the next time I'll be in your area will be in February- not the best time to be exploring! I do expect to be in the area again around the 4th of July, though. Jim Daly Mill Creek, IN --- Stephen Anderson wrote: > Hello, > > I live on a piece of land in Hellertown, PA > (Northampton County). I > understand that the Bachman Iron Mine once occupied > part of the > mountainside in my woods where much rare MATULAITE > has been found. > > Does anyone have any information regarding BACHMAN > IRON MINE, or > MATULAITE that they could share with me? > > Thanks, > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From tim at orerockon.com Fri Nov 4 15:48:11 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Nov 4 15:48:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... In-Reply-To: References: <00a601c5e186$6f80b3a0$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104153753.024b2120@orerockon.com> Absolutely, Glenn. For cutting softer materials I would use a synthetic such as Cool Lube 4800, which is made specifically for cutting relatively soft materials such as hardened steel, dry the saw off thoroughly, and replace with oil again. The saw will rust even with a rust inhibitor added if you leave the water-based lubricant in it (sometimes even overnight). And Paul, what I said about Lubri-Kool was not my original thought. It was straight from the God of lapidary saw manufacturing, Bill Ritter, founder of Contempo. My guess is that you will never have a problem with Lubri-Kool if you don't cut extremely hard materials such as quartz crystals, Brazilian agate, and some of our local Pacific NW agates and picture jaspers, which eat blades for a living :) At 02:40 PM 11/4/2005, you wrote: >There it is! You answered your own question! > >We use a ceramic tile saw at home with a diamond blade and water and >it works great on softer stuff. > >For agate and other hard material we use our club's oil lubed saws. > > >Glenn > > >From: "Paul" <pbhewitt@comcast.net> >Subject: >[Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... > >Date: >Fri, 4 Nov 2005 16:26:34 -0500 > >I have been using my Lortone 10" saw for many years with Lubricool >in it. It cuts anything and everything I put in it. My problem is >not with hard material though ... it is with soft. I have some very >pretty conglomerate and limestone that I would love to slab and >polish but they are so soft that the residue gums up my oil and >therefore renders the saw useless unless I change it. It only takes >a few cuts too and I dont feel like going through the hassle of >cleaning it out every day. Is there a better method for cutting >softer materials? > > >****Maybe a saw that runs in water and has a sump >that will let the crap fall to the bottom?***** > > > Any suggestions would be  greatly appreciated ... I have >LOT of material that I want to cut. > >Paul in Marietta Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 4 16:05:08 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Fri Nov 4 16:05:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Let Freedom Ring! References: <29639543.1131106845658.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000501c5e19c$95fb2860$78f1edc1@mpc1> > Now if you are going to start using reason and logic in this discussion, > where will it all end? Uh, oh, I didn't think of that. (memo to self - think things through first). > Bottom line: some feel that they need "control". They are better able > to tell you and me what we should be seeing and reading. Story of my life. > to hit the DEL key! Wow! The feeling of POWER is almost too much to > endure! The feeling afterwards? Total relief! Total! An almost > orgasmic feeling flows over the body. Gosh, if the DEL key does that to you I hate to think what state you must be in after typing all of that. Must get messy. > I'm not sure any crystal could > ever give such a feeling! Ooops, that's another topic for another day. I've seen a few malachite stalactites that might do the trick. Mick From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Nov 4 16:26:24 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Nov 4 16:26:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] reply to water dowser training mention Message-ID: <20051105002624.57432.qmail@web34612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi list: I'm writing because of a mention of Water Witches. My wife and I built a new house on our place here in southern WV back in the early 1990s. The old house was a jenny lind 4 room house, two on the first floor and two on the second floor. A jenny lind house is 2 layers of boards nailed together, so there are no openings for insulation, as in a stud wall. The old house was on a small bank above the county road and the creek, and we had a well drilled in the bottom a couple years after we moved to the place. At first I put a twin-jet pump into the old hand-dug well behind the house, and that water was good, sweet to drink, and cold to pour over your head after a day working on the old house. AFter the new house was nearly built, we had a new well drilled. Wells cost about $12/foot right now, a little less back then. We drilled 275 feet, and only had a drizzle of water. I've learned since that here in the appalachians, water acquifers aren't like out west, huge horizontal layers of thick porous stone holding billions of gallons of ancient water. Here the places where valleys have eroded out of the sedimentary rock have rebounded up after the weight of the eroded away rock is gone. This rebound causes faults or cracks in the bedrock, and ground water collects in these cracks. If you want a good well, you had best hit one of these cracks full of water. I heard of an elderly gentleman in the neighborhood who was a dowser, a water witch. I'm pretty scientific, like TangoJulie (Hi Tina! We're going to be an Arizona this winter, if you expect to be there in early Feb, drop me a line...) so I didn't really believe in dowsing, or water witching. How it is supposed to work is this: The water witch holds a stick or other indicator, and walks over the ground, seeking a vein of water. When they cross a vein, the indicator (usually a stick cut from a water-loving tree, willow or sycamore or even box elder, but sometimes a pair of copper wires, a coat hanger, or even welding rods) will dip, or twitch, or somehow indicate to the witch that there is the vein. Well, by the time we were back to the farm, it was evening, summer evening. Mr. Bumgartner, who was 87 or 88 years old, walked around a little, and then used his pocketknife (mohs 5.5-6) to cut a forked branch. He walked around the driveway and the rocks around the new house, pointing the butt of the forked stick almost straight up. The tree cover is thick, oaks and pawpaw trees, so the light is dim and it was quiet. Suddenly, that stick's butt bent 180 degrees, and pointed down at the ground under Mr. Bungartner's feet!! I was astounded! Totally astounded! HE didn't move a muscle, but the twig bent, and bent hard! Unfortunately, we had already spent a lot of money on the mostly dry well, and just ran a line from the older drilled well by the old house, and deal with the pump hardware necessary to make it work. But seeing that stick/twig fold over in his hands that quiet evening convinced me of one thing - there are things going on in the world that we can't explain very well. Talents and knacks people have in this arena can be unexplicable given today's ideas about mental power, and cold scientific data. And I'm not even going to talk about the farmer we visited to see his brown swiss cattle, and what he saw one night over on Turkey Creek... So, while I'm very skeptical about vibrations in crystals, I'm not going to give anyone a hard time about it...I've gotten to be nearly 55 now, and I've seen a couple of things in my life that I can't explain at ALL. If you haven't, well, maybe you need to give it a couple more decades. But - Isn't Halite salt? You got vibrations from salt crystals? OK, maybe so... Keep up the discussion folks! JR in WV __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From agate at cox.net Fri Nov 4 16:25:41 2005 From: agate at cox.net (agate@cox.net) Date: Fri Nov 4 16:27:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Revised Rules Message-ID: <20051105002617.THIP2059.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> It seems to me that we should not take shots at the Admin or the new rules until we see and carefully study the rules. From silverado at frontiernet.net Fri Nov 4 15:34:36 2005 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (Gail) Date: Fri Nov 4 16:34:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Add update References: <200511031850.jA3IoUUj025354@bubbleator.drizzle.com><023e01c5e0ba$d85364d0$6901a8c0@rock3> <000701c5e0ba$727164a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <004b01c5e198$54092050$3fcb3243@gail7diqufk9xy> I also agree. Why not let others see what various collectors/sellers have. Perhaps one might find a treasure or materials for a certain project. Or that special gift for someone who cannot travel to all the places to hunt for minerals , agates, petrified wood,etc. In the council of many there is wisdom. Gail. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rock Currier" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Add update >I am with you. I don't have a problem with someone providing some useful > info and then providing a link at the end of their message to a site where > they sell something. This site is already top heavy with messages so we > don't need overt commercial postings up front. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rock Currier" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 1:09 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Add update > > >> Tim, >> >> I am with you and I am a dealer. This bulletin board can be anything we > want >> it to be. I think that we should insist that anyone posting >> advertisements >> on this bulletin board provide some content that will be interesting to > our >> members rather than "I have this calcite for sale" kind of thing. The > people >> who run this bulletin board are reasonable people and probably feel the > same >> irritation in reading dumb adds. If enough people in the group complain >> about the adds and tell the advertisers them what they would like to see >> along with the adds, they will do their best to make it happen. It really >> does not take all that much effort to add content to an add. For our gem > and >> mineral shows send out news letters to our customers telling them what we >> have for sale but always include what we hope will be interesting stuff >> related to what we are selling to try and inform and educate our > customers. >> I think it is bad business to do otherwise. If you know anything much at > all >> about minerals you can pound out some interesting stuff in ten or fifteen >> minuets. I really think it would improve the sales of dealers posting > stuff >> on the board if they would do that. >> >> Let us hear from a bunch of you on the list? Shall we make them sing for >> their dinner? What sort things would you like to see along with the adds? >> Mineral history? News about producing localities? News about mineral > shows? >> What makes their specimens interesting or different? It is really up to > you? >> What do you want? More of the same dull adds? >> >> Rock >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Nov 4 17:29:05 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Nov 4 17:26:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104110530.024b4408@orerockon.com><436BB888.1020005@att.net> <00a601c5e186$6f80b3a0$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <003001c5e1a8$4fc9aea0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Sound like what you need is to drain the saw into a series of two or three buckets each draining from the top into the next, with a sump pump in the last bucket to pump the oil back on to the saw blade. The crap should all settle in the series of buckets and not in your saw. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... > I have been using my Lortone 10" saw for many years with Lubricool in it. > It cuts anything and everything I put in it. My problem is not with hard > material though ... it is with soft. I have some very pretty conglomerate > and limestone that I would love to slab and polish but they are so soft that > the residue gums up my oil and therefore renders the saw useless unless I > change it. It only takes a few cuts too and I dont feel like going through > the hassle of cleaning it out every day. Is there a better method for > cutting softer materials? Maybe a saw that runs in water and has a sump > that will let the crap fall to the bottom? Any suggestions would be greatly > appreciated ... I have LOT of material that I want to cut. > > Paul in Marietta > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pbhewitt at comcast.net Fri Nov 4 17:32:17 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Fri Nov 4 17:33:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104110530.024b4408@orerockon.com><436BB888.1020005@att.net><00a601c5e186$6f80b3a0$6401a8c0@maingear> <003001c5e1a8$4fc9aea0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <011301c5e1a8$c2833060$6401a8c0@maingear> That sounds like a great idea but the saw sits in a square pan about 1" deep and all the crap gathers arounds the blade. That keeps oil from getting to the blade. I wouldnt mind so much if there was room in there to get some kind of scraper in to clear the crap out from time to time. Then I could just scoop it out and filter the oil out of it and put fresh oil in the saw. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... > Sound like what you need is to drain the saw into a series of two or three > buckets each draining from the top into the next, with a sump pump in the > last bucket to pump the oil back on to the saw blade. The crap should all > settle in the series of buckets and not in your saw. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 1:26 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... > > >> I have been using my Lortone 10" saw for many years with Lubricool in it. >> It cuts anything and everything I put in it. My problem is not with hard >> material though ... it is with soft. I have some very pretty >> conglomerate >> and limestone that I would love to slab and polish but they are so soft > that >> the residue gums up my oil and therefore renders the saw useless unless I >> change it. It only takes a few cuts too and I dont feel like going > through >> the hassle of cleaning it out every day. Is there a better method for >> cutting softer materials? Maybe a saw that runs in water and has a sump >> that will let the crap fall to the bottom? Any suggestions would be > greatly >> appreciated ... I have LOT of material that I want to cut. >> >> Paul in Marietta >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From smtravis at plateautel.net Fri Nov 4 17:44:30 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Fri Nov 4 17:44:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sorcerer Message-ID: <013901c5e1aa$7c97f2f0$f91571ce@marilyn> It is my understanding that the word sorcerer refers to a water witch. Indeed water the mineral is the most valuable thing to humans in the world. Yes I expect some comment on that statement. I am highly educated in the field of geology and even experienced. Some would say over educated however during my M.S. thesis work I was doing water well surveys in north central KS. I kept going back to a little cafe because they served home grown vegetables and great local meat and they finally ask what I was in town for and I told them a uranium water well and soil sample survey. The owner asked if I would like to sample his well and then proudly announced He witched it himself. I hadn't collected a sample in that area so I said I would but I was most intrigued by his announcement. When we got there I sampled the well and asked about water witching. I admit I was very skeptical about the whole thing but I asked can you teach me how to witch a well? he said no but if I could he would show me how he did it and IF I could do it we would soon know. well he cut a forked stick of a peach tree and handed it to me and said the VEIN is over there just walk that way. I took several steps and when I went over there the stick took a nose dive and when I kept walking it came back up. To say I was surprised would be a very mild understatement. Well I said to my self this is some kind of trick> I turned around and thought no way is this stick going down this time I will hold it so tight IT CAN'T. I grabbed it hard and walked back the way I came and the stick dove down with force the bard stripped off in my hands. I was amazed. I can not tell you what the force is but it is measurable and works with many devices I have since made a personal study of dowsing and continue to be enlightened and amazed but the phenomenon. OK I'm ready for the skeptics and I have announced myself as a heretic. I went back to the University and talked to the head of the department who scoffed at my experience. He certainly couldn't explain it. I was his research assistant at the time and did the Atomic absorption, X-ray defract, and SEM work for the University. He said if your a dowser take these "a pair of bent rods he had in his office" and then said show me. As the chemistry dept. and lab was on the floor above us and Anthrop was below us there were glass pipes going to the sewer below us. I took the brass rods not knowing what I was supposed to do and pointed them straight ahead and started walking down the hall within 5 steps they turned towards each other crossed and then as I kept moving they straightened to the forward position. I again was amazed I certainly was not moving them consciously. Stranger than science... any comments? No I have never tried to witch oil although I hear people do it. or minerals or gold etc Guess I have lots to experiment with. any suggestions Keep on rocking Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Nov 4 18:02:18 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Nov 4 17:59:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104110530.024b4408@orerockon.com><436BB888.1020005@att.net><00a601c5e186$6f80b3a0$6401a8c0@maingear><003001c5e1a8$4fc9aea0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <011301c5e1a8$c2833060$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <001201c5e1ac$f3d9f820$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> There should be a drain hole in the bottom of the pan with a plug in it. Just remove the plug and have the hole empty in the first bucket in the series. This is the way the saws in my club's shop are set up and it works very well as the buckets are much easier to clean out than the pans. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... > That sounds like a great idea but the saw sits in a square pan about 1" deep > and all the crap gathers arounds the blade. That keeps oil from getting to > the blade. I wouldnt mind so much if there was room in there to get some > kind of scraper in to clear the crap out from time to time. Then I could > just scoop it out and filter the oil out of it and put fresh oil in the saw. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 8:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... > > > > Sound like what you need is to drain the saw into a series of two or three > > buckets each draining from the top into the next, with a sump pump in the > > last bucket to pump the oil back on to the saw blade. The crap should all > > settle in the series of buckets and not in your saw. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Paul" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 1:26 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] speaking of saw lubricants ... > > > > > >> I have been using my Lortone 10" saw for many years with Lubricool in it. > >> It cuts anything and everything I put in it. My problem is not with hard > >> material though ... it is with soft. I have some very pretty > >> conglomerate > >> and limestone that I would love to slab and polish but they are so soft > > that > >> the residue gums up my oil and therefore renders the saw useless unless I > >> change it. It only takes a few cuts too and I dont feel like going > > through > >> the hassle of cleaning it out every day. Is there a better method for > >> cutting softer materials? Maybe a saw that runs in water and has a sump > >> that will let the crap fall to the bottom? Any suggestions would be > > greatly > >> appreciated ... I have LOT of material that I want to cut. > >> > >> Paul in Marietta > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Fri Nov 4 18:00:43 2005 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Fri Nov 4 18:00:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104105454.024b42c0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <20051105020043.75012.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I need a manual to see how to work it. When you say you purchase locally do you mean you go to a local rock shop or do you have someone machine a part for you? I will see if I can get info from Diamond Pacific. Thanks for the info. June --- Tim Fisher wrote: > What do you need to know about the saw? Many of us > have Highland Park > saws. I have the 14" as well. Diamond Pacific > _might_ have a > photocopy of the original manual available, but they > generally do not > "support" the saw brands that they purchased (i.e. > HP, Contempo, > Beacon Star, Frantom) except to repair gears, > vises, etc. Even then, > I find I can get parts cheaper locally or through > the net i.e. McMaster-Carr. > > At 10:28 AM 11/4/2005, you wrote: > > >I have been searching for information on the > Highland > >Park 14" saw. On Bob's Rock Shop, I see where many > >people have been also looking for information. Is > it > >no longer manufactured? I found no hits regarding > >Highland Park Saws on my on line search. I am > looking > >for a manual but any information would be greatly > >appreciated. > >Thanks > >June > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 4 18:14:01 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 4 18:13:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral analyses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <436C1569.5030200@verizon.net> James Murowchick wrote: > I don't think this counts as an ad--more a reminder of a service I can > offer to rockhounds. > > Some of you may remember a thread from last Spring about getting samples > analyzed/identified. I offered to perform XRD analyses for minimal cost > (details to be worked out on an individual basis). Greetings! Your offer is gentlemanly and generous. Here is a suggestion for a follow-up thread: let us know what is required for sample prep. For example, how much? What can the sender do to make certain the sample is reasonably pure? What kind of samples are not suitable without extensive preparation (i.e., clays?) What will happen to the sample once you get it (i.e., the word "powder" is a hint). And, for the deranged among us: what model diffractometer is it? What are maximum and minimum theta? Does it provide data suitable for Rietveld refinement, and if so, do you have a refinement program? For interested parties, I know the USGS has a very nice introduction to how XRD works posted on line... not too technical, but technical enough to understand how the thing works... now I just need to find that link... Thanks again, Jim. Don From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Nov 4 18:19:30 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Nov 4 18:16:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw References: <20051105020043.75012.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000901c5e1af$5b5439a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I have yet to see an old saw that had a manual. I doubt if a manual was available, that it would be of much help since saws are pretty simple in their setup and operation. Highland Park saws are usually quite durable and can be rehabilitated to be as good as new. If you search the archives at Bob's Rock Shop and some of the other sites I am sure you can find quite a bit of discussion on the care and feed and rehabing of used saws. If not, just ask. There is plenty of people here and on other rockhounding sites who can answer your questons. ----- Original Message ----- From: "June Young" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw > I need a manual to see how to work it. When you say > you purchase locally do you mean you go to a local > rock shop or do you have someone machine a part for > you? I will see if I can get info from Diamond > Pacific. > Thanks for the info. > June > > --- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > What do you need to know about the saw? Many of us > > have Highland Park > > saws. I have the 14" as well. Diamond Pacific > > _might_ have a > > photocopy of the original manual available, but they > > generally do not > > "support" the saw brands that they purchased (i.e. > > HP, Contempo, > > Beacon Star, Frantom) except to repair gears, > > vises, etc. Even then, > > I find I can get parts cheaper locally or through > > the net i.e. McMaster-Carr. > > > > At 10:28 AM 11/4/2005, you wrote: > > > > >I have been searching for information on the > > Highland > > >Park 14" saw. On Bob's Rock Shop, I see where many > > >people have been also looking for information. Is > > it > > >no longer manufactured? I found no hits regarding > > >Highland Park Saws on my on line search. I am > > looking > > >for a manual but any information would be greatly > > >appreciated. > > >Thanks > > >June > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Fri Nov 4 19:39:15 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Nov 4 19:39:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw In-Reply-To: <20051105020043.75012.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104105454.024b42c0@orerockon.com> <20051105020043.75012.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104193714.028ed9f8@orerockon.com> I just buy the parts that are already on the saw. H-P used all pre-manufactured parts except for a very few parts that they cast themselves. The H-P saw is really a very simple piece of equipment, what specifically do you need to know about the operation of the saw? At 06:00 PM 11/4/2005, you wrote: >I need a manual to see how to work it. When you say >you purchase locally do you mean you go to a local >rock shop or do you have someone machine a part for >you? I will see if I can get info from Diamond >Pacific. >Thanks for the info. >June > >--- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > What do you need to know about the saw? Many of us > > have Highland Park > > saws. I have the 14" as well. Diamond Pacific > > _might_ have a > > photocopy of the original manual available, but they > > generally do not > > "support" the saw brands that they purchased (i.e. > > HP, Contempo, > > Beacon Star, Frantom) except to repair gears, > > vises, etc. Even then, > > I find I can get parts cheaper locally or through > > the net i.e. McMaster-Carr. > > > > At 10:28 AM 11/4/2005, you wrote: > > > > >I have been searching for information on the > > Highland > > >Park 14" saw. On Bob's Rock Shop, I see where many > > >people have been also looking for information. Is > > it > > >no longer manufactured? I found no hits regarding > > >Highland Park Saws on my on line search. I am > > looking > > >for a manual but any information would be greatly > > >appreciated. > > >Thanks > > >June > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. >http://farechase.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 4 19:59:00 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 4 19:59:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cutting agates References: Message-ID: <436C2DFD.B92@Tomaszewski.net> Sam, My guess is that your feed is too agressive. Back it off and let the diamonds in the blade do the work. Kreigh samuelbehar@rcn.com wrote: > > I have been using a Barranca 10" slab/trim saw (PF-10) with its > original blade (the specs say 10" x .040 303 Professional > continuous rim blade). I use Lubri-Kool oil with mist killer from > Kingsley North as the lubricant. I have been happy with its > performance, but occasionally I end up trying to cut something > that just won't cut. It seems to mostly happen with agates. For > example, I remember purchasing a Brazilian nodule (which was > probably too big for my saw) which I could not cut, but it also > recently happened with a much smaller nodule as well. > Uusually what happens, it the saw will cut into the stone almost > an inch, but then the the rock starts riding up on the blade. > Despite trying to start over, little progress is made. > > What I would like to know is whether there are any solutions to > this problem. Is my saw not powerful enough for these agates, > or would a different blade or lubricant help? > > Thanks, > > Sam From info at wisdomofstones.com Fri Nov 4 20:12:22 2005 From: info at wisdomofstones.com (wisdom of stones) Date: Fri Nov 4 20:11:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Online classes, etc. In-Reply-To: <20051104034015.39359.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Am getting ready to go out of town and briefly read through the discussion thread about online classes, degrees, etc. I appreciate the feedback and information on this and other things I've asked about. I'll read through the emails more thoroughly when I return Monday, but for now just wanted to say thank you. kindest thoughts and regards, jennifer -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of tango juli Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:40 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] alt mineral properties I saw Jennifer's posting, was it yesterday or today? and the one later today about the metaphysical intersts of minerals and the query about learning about geology. To respond on the latter question, recently one of the regulars (sorry I can't attribute as I can't recall exactly who it was) posted a link to "about.com" and searching on this for information on geology. Curious and at loose ends, I followed it, and looked for courses online and was utterly delighted by what I found. I read up from a university website on crystallography and some on mineralogy (reminded again why I didn't follow geology in grad school). These can be awesome resources and provide you with structural geology, minerology and petrology, etc. The latter, petrology is the study of rock formation which is very helpful if you want to understand the formations and what you are likely to find in a particular location. Now, a few comments on metaphysical properties of rocks/mins. I've always been an informal "scientist", empirical evidence was a minimum requirement for my belief in something. I've been vaguely amused by what properties some have ascribed to minerals (i.e. hanksite supposedly rids you of avarice which might be counterproductive to collecting, I'd think). But hey, who knew bacteria caused heart disease and ulcers? A couple years ago, down on my luck and a little blue, I had just returned to Searles Lake for the annual bounty and took back 10-12 flats of hanksite and halite. In my little apartment in dark dreary Milwaukee in early winter, I sat scrubbing those hanksites of that endless black mud for days on end. In front of the TV, I would scrub, rinse, scrub rinse, dry, oil, and bag them for hours at a time. Curiously, my mood lifted, and I always felt surprisingly peaceful afterwards, like I had been meditating. Since then, I'm not too sure that minerals don't provide some benefits other than cognitive from contact with them. I'm not hopping on the new age bandwagon, mind you. But maybe there's another reason we are so attached to our rocks? :) (that's just going to send some of you over the edge, eh?) lol I also noted that when I was selling the evaporites (hanksites etc) that the EBAY specimens being sold to "new agers" were going at higher rates than those to mineral collectors for similar products. So, I made these very cool labels with a picture of the locality, the normal mineral data on the front and on the back a small blurb on the metaphysical properties. Two show organizers told me that I and my specimens would not be taken seriously by "serious collectors" if I had that on there, even on the back. :) Welcome to the group Jennifer. Lots of really awesome folks on the list who can answer just about any question you might have (our own little ready reference!) best, tina aka tangojuli --snip-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 13:03:30 -0600 From: "wisdom of stones" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Federation groups, clubs, etc. USA To: "DonH" , , "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Hi Don - Thanks for your response to my query. I understand completely what you're saying, appreciate your thoughts and don't necessarily disagree with you. I do however, have some beliefs about stones and the energies the earth holds, especially as it relates to physics and new scientific studies that are being done in the fields of vibrational science and medicine. I sometimes think the word "new age" and metaphysical are reaching a place of saturation and have become too terms that create more "reaction to" than "consideration around" as there is too much in this world we don't understand and open to reconsideration (if this is the right word).Am not wanting to debate my inquiry, work or my beliefs but was merely curious and interested in knowing more about the various groups, clubs, etc. I inquired about.... ---snip--- --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Nov 4 18:29:46 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Nov 4 20:31:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sorcerer References: <013901c5e1aa$7c97f2f0$f91571ce@marilyn> Message-ID: <003201c5e1b0$d0eb4360$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Steve, My neighbor handed me a couple of bent coat hangers and told me to walk his property looking for water. I was skeptical, but the wires crossed over his well every time. I tried it again on my property. Same results - the wires crossed right over my well and the pipes leading from it. Property here in northern Idaho is selling fast and the local well driller dowses before he drills. He wouldn't still be in business if it didn't work. This is dry country but the guy manages to find the aquifer every time. I too would be interested in further discussion on this. Fellow heretic - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve & Marilyn" >It is my understanding that the word sorcerer refers to a water witch. From tangojuli at yahoo.com Fri Nov 4 21:17:42 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Fri Nov 4 21:17:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] witches and heretics In-Reply-To: <200511050159.jA51xrXb029519@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20051105051743.74968.qmail@web60822.mail.yahoo.com> witches and heretics, we geologists/geo-afficianados! Loved hearing the two stories about water-witching. Heard a similar BLM story couple years ago when they were trying to put in a well in the north desert near the Sierra. Their geologist experts pointed to a couple places, according to their tests, but even going down 600 feet and several blunted drill bits later, not even a drop. A local dowser was brought in by one of the casual temp BLM employess and Eureka! Agua! Woo Hoo! Loved that story. There is so much we don't get. Kind of nice to look forward to, no? Slowly uncovering the secrets of string theory, particle physics, rainbows, leprechauns and disease. PS--JR Hodel--cool on AZ! I'm shooting for Tuscon if that's where you are going and have a couple localities I've been researching and hoping to visit. Remind me to send you the finder's write up on one of them. If other members are going, maybe we could gather at a coffee house one or two mornings. Be nice to meet some of you. As long as we leaving the mud flinging outside! Best, Tinainthedesert --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 4 21:28:54 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 4 21:28:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] witches and heretics In-Reply-To: <20051105051743.74968.qmail@web60822.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051105051743.74968.qmail@web60822.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <436C4316.1030809@verizon.net> tango juli wrote: > PS--JR Hodel--cool on AZ! I'm shooting for Tuscon if that's where you are going and have a couple localities I've been researching and hoping to visit. Remind me to send you the finder's write up on one of them. If other members are going, maybe we could gather at a coffee house one or two mornings. Be nice to meet some of you. As long as we leaving the mud flinging outside! Well I don't know about all this dousing, but I can tell you from experience, I have done a few of these "list field trips" where we say "let's meet at this place and time"... and I can say it is so much better when you're in person, the crap that goes on within the context of e-mail usually doesn't happen when you're face-to-face. I hope you get together. That's part of what makes the list such a useful tool. Best, Don From tjokela at execulink.com Fri Nov 4 21:58:08 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Fri Nov 4 21:58:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Detroit show, painite References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us><436A6CCC.8090801@epix.net> <002701c5e101$da884df0$6400a8c0@Junior><436AF6BA.8090703@verizon.net> <000901c5e17c$6d2c9600$6400a8c0@Junior> <019a01c5e180$078bc0b0$6502a8c0@heathercomp> Message-ID: <000b01c5e1cd$e5b707d0$6400a8c0@Junior> An embargo like that is kind of a joke, don't you think? How many Americans illegally visit Cuba for warm sun and sandy beaches? And why isn't every single item produced in China under embargo? Blood diamonds, anybody? Lots of restrictions here and there, most are ignored. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Detroit show, painite > speaking of Painites, it's kind of funny. As I understand it, there is > currently an embargo against Burma because of it's human rights record. > Obviously, this should be a very big problem for the gem and mineral > community, as technically, materials from this country are no longer legal > to import. snip From tjokela at execulink.com Fri Nov 4 22:07:59 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Fri Nov 4 22:07:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sorcerer References: <013901c5e1aa$7c97f2f0$f91571ce@marilyn> Message-ID: <001701c5e1cf$45c140e0$6400a8c0@Junior> Sorry Steve, but dowsing has been thoroughly debunked. Don't take my word for it, test it yourself, in a thorough, scientific manner, eg. double blind test. Lord I hope this thread doesn't go wild. Next thing the crystal power types will be finding radioactive oil by telepathic dowsing, channelling the wisdom of ancient Albanian shoemakers, and aligning their chakras with the natural healing power of realgar. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve & Marilyn" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 8:44 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Sorcerer It is my understanding that the word sorcerer refers to a water witch. Indeed water the mineral is the most valuable thing to humans in the world. Yes I expect some comment on that statement. I am highly educated in the field of other crossed and then as I kept moving they straightened to the forward position. I again was amazed I certainly was not moving them consciously. Stranger than science... any comments? No I have never tried to witch oil although I hear people do it. or minerals or gold etc Guess I have lots to experiment with. any suggestions Keep on rocking Steve From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Fri Nov 4 22:14:23 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Fri Nov 4 22:14:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Detroit show, painite References: <85da43404ef35dac109ea257f67e341a@stephenanderson.us> <436A6CCC.8090801@epix.net> <002701c5e101$da884df0$6400a8c0@Junior> <436AF6BA.8090703@verizon.net> <000901c5e17c$6d2c9600$6400a8c0@Junior> <019a01c5e180$078bc0b0$6502a8c0@heathercomp> <000b01c5e1cd$e5b707d0$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <009301c5e1d0$2afe6750$6402a8c0@remains> sure, it may be....but the US DOES actually prosecute Americans who go to Cuba and spend money...not often, but it happens. see: http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040125-123059-1221r.htm regardless of whether the embargo is a "joke" or not, it will at some point be enforced....and I am just wondering if anyone knows of that happening yet. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jokela Jr." To: "michael" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Detroit show, painite > An embargo like that is kind of a joke, don't you think? > > How many Americans illegally visit Cuba for warm sun and sandy beaches? > > And why isn't every single item produced in China under embargo? > > Blood diamonds, anybody? > > Lots of restrictions here and there, most are ignored. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "michael" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 3:40 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Detroit show, painite > > >> speaking of Painites, it's kind of funny. As I understand it, there is >> currently an embargo against Burma because of it's human rights record. >> Obviously, this should be a very big problem for the gem and mineral >> community, as technically, materials from this country are no longer >> legal to import. > snip From tangojuli at yahoo.com Fri Nov 4 22:38:59 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Fri Nov 4 22:39:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] experiential credit In-Reply-To: <200511041833.jA4IXHXb016465@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20051105063900.40080.qmail@web60815.mail.yahoo.com> Thought this was a great topic--experiential credit--and I couldn't resist a few words. Think about a military person with 10 years experience in cutting edge aviation electronics who gets out and decides to go back to college. The college takes a look at her experience and awards college credit for their service schools (aviation electrician) and 10 years experience--beyond journeyman. The experience she gained doing the work is experiential credit and may shave off her freshman year at least, saving her a great deal of money, I might add. All colleges and university that I know of award such experience with appropriate credit, and this is rigorously controlled by accreditating association and other bodies such as ACE (American Council on Education). In addition, many progressive colleges and universities offer adult students coming (back) to higher education the opportunity to assemble a portfolio of work experience to be considered by the faculty for credit. This can be a pretty laborious process. Sometimes this credit may be 0 or 6 hours or sometimes 20 or more hours. Imagine a top notch fundraiser at a cancer philanthropy who raises $1,000,000 a year and runs a major foundation who doesn't have a bachelor's degree. It would be elitist and pretty ignorant of us college officials to not acknowledge the equivalency and significance of that experience in considering how much credit that may be worth to our precious bachelor's degree. How many of you would take her established skills and abilities over a fresh 22 year old bachelor's degree grad? Her ability to write and interpret legal contracts, execute a sensitive negotiation, oversee the banking, endowments etc of this institution? This type of experience should be equivalent to a graduate degree, as some of you might agree. And a welder with 20 years experience in TIG aluminum welding, MIG steel and armor--I'm going to make him take my Welding 1 and Welding 2 so he can get his associates degree? That would be a terrible racket, no? We give him lots of credit for that valuable experience (and hope he finishes his associates degree so we can hire him to teach!) As far as Jennifer's original question, that would depend on which college or institution of higher ed that she approached and what they would consider as equivelent to what the offer and how she could document that experience. It is much more difficult to document and make a case for experiential credit in the sciences at a traditional institution, but can't hurt to make inquiries! I was surprised in the rockhounds survey a few months ago at how many folks who responded wanted to take courses in mineralogy, crystallography, etc. I knwo there are a lot out there on the list without the formal credentials whose knowledge and teaching skill rival that of any lettered faculty. Such is the value of experiential credit. Anyway, had to chime in. Tangojuli PhD Candidate (yippee, finally!), Higher Education Adminstration and Policy (and someone whose military experience did translate well in experiential credit!) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 08:27:18 -0700 From: Al Balmer Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] experential certificates in geology and mineralogy To: Rock Currier , "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <436B7DD6.4010808@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Rock Currier wrote: > Jennifer, > > Your request for information about experiential certificates in geology and > mineralogy started me wondering "What in the heck is she taking about? I > never heard of anything like that. I've heard the term. It seems to mean getting a diploma or certificate without the need to do any actual studying, based on your "life experience" and your ability to pay. --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 4 23:41:29 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 4 23:40:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] experiential credit In-Reply-To: <20051105063900.40080.qmail@web60815.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051105063900.40080.qmail@web60815.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <436C6229.8050100@verizon.net> tango juli wrote: > Thought this was a great topic--experiential credit--and I couldn't resist a few words. Think about a military person with 10 years experience in cutting edge aviation electronics who gets out and decides to go back to college. The college takes a look at her experience and awards college credit for their service schools (aviation electrician) and 10 years experience--beyond journeyman. The experience she gained doing the work is experiential credit and may shave off her freshman year at least, saving her a great deal of money, I might add. Hi again, This is an item with which I currently have some measure of familiarity. You seem to have made an apples-to-oranges comparsion, and I'll explain why. I am working toward my MS in geology/mineralogy based on 3 things: prior degrees and some work at the master's level (though none of these things is related to geology, having a solid academic track record counts for a lot); professional training courses; and experience. However, my experience doesn't count for that much, and I am currently taking core undergraduate classes to fulfill formal requirements in geology I haven't had. Today I spoke to the scanning electron microscopy professor about testing out of that class, based upon my training in SEM/EDS at the McCrone Research Institute; he didn't see a problem with that. At the same time, I am doing research in optical crystallography, which is typically more advanced, but that is where the bulk of my informal experience lies. All of this is based upon my unique background and that can be considered the result of what you would call experiential credit. However, all of this is a long way from what I think Jennifer wants to do. The question remains, what experience does she have that relates to anything academic? Note that this is not an insult, I am just trying to bring some realistic expectations into play here. Sorry to be blunt--I have a tendency to be perceived as abrasive in these circumstances, but it's not meant that way--however, experience in healing, or metaphysics, whatever you chose to call it, will get you zero credibility in academia. When we study the vibrations and structures of solids--as a side note, all molecules vibrate, not just crystals--we are concerned with electron density, d-spacings, reciprocal vectors, and lattice parameters, among other things, and trying to relate crystal structure to anything spiritual would be totally outside the bounds of what we study in the lab. I submit that taking courses in the sciences would be unsatisfying to someone with metaphysical intentions. I can assert that molecules vibrate; beyond that, the world of crystalline structure is populated with matrices, linear algebra, group theory, and pressure/temperature phase diagrams, among many other things; I doubt these concepts would relate to anything other than defining a chemical formula and repeating three-dimensional structure for a substance. Two of my classes this semester have lab requirements, as will two next semester. This science is lab- and research-based. Somewhere in the world, there may be comprehensive correspondence or e-learning courses in geology and mineralogy, but I have only found a few basic ones. That is why I needed to take this route; there was no other choice. As someone else pointed out, one can become a GIA graduate gemologist entirely by correspondence; the last time I checked, however, the fees were quite steep by my standards. However it remains an option. Jennifer also mentioned grants. Yes, there is grant money out there. However, it is very competitive, and if you look at who is getting the grants and what they are doing, the research involves some very specific science requiring deep knowledge of physics, chemistry, geology, and mineralogy, as well as some demonstrated capability in the field of endeavor. In large part, grants and awards go to the cream of the academic crop, and when I want to feel humble I read the titles of some of these research proposals and acknowledge that I can't even understand the subject, let alone the actual body of work. If you think I'm exaggerating, take a look here: http://www.minsocam.org/MSA/Awards/Min_Pet_Award.html Sorry to throw cold water on some ideas, but I've never been one to shy away from harsh reality. If anyone wants to discuss this post off-list, we can do that. best regards, Don From drtanuki at yahoo.com Sat Nov 5 00:52:24 2005 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sat Nov 5 00:52:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] unsubscribe please In-Reply-To: <20051105063900.40080.qmail@web60815.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20051105085225.59368.qmail@web53214.mail.yahoo.com> Dear List Owner, I will be gone for an extended time. Please unsuscribe me from the list. I have enjoyed being a part of the list. Thank you. Dirk Ross...Tokyo tango juli wrote: Thought this was a great topic--experiential credit--and I couldn't resist a few words. Think about a military person with 10 years experience in cutting edge aviation electronics who gets out and decides to go back to college. The college takes a look at her experience and awards college credit for their service schools (aviation electrician) and 10 years experience--beyond journeyman. The experience she gained doing the work is experiential credit and may shave off her freshman year at least, saving her a great deal of money, I might add. All colleges and university that I know of award such experience with appropriate credit, and this is rigorously controlled by accreditating association and other bodies such as ACE (American Council on Education). In addition, many progressive colleges and universities offer adult students coming (back) to higher education the opportunity to assemble a portfolio of work experience to be considered by the faculty for credit. This can be a pretty laborious process. Sometimes this credit may be 0 or 6 hours or sometimes 20 or more hours. Imagine a top notch fundraiser at a cancer philanthropy who raises $1,000,000 a year and runs a major foundation who doesn't have a bachelor's degree. It would be elitist and pretty ignorant of us college officials to not acknowledge the equivalency and significance of that experience in considering how much credit that may be worth to our precious bachelor's degree. How many of you would take her established skills and abilities over a fresh 22 year old bachelor's degree grad? Her ability to write and interpret legal contracts, execute a sensitive negotiation, oversee the banking, endowments etc of this institution? This type of experience should be equivalent to a graduate degree, as some of you might agree. And a welder with 20 years experience in TIG aluminum welding, MIG steel and armor--I'm going to make him take my Welding 1 and Welding 2 so he can get his associates degree? That would be a terrible racket, no? We give him lots of credit for that valuable experience (and hope he finishes his associates degree so we can hire him to teach!) As far as Jennifer's original question, that would depend on which college or institution of higher ed that she approached and what they would consider as equivelent to what the offer and how she could document that experience. It is much more difficult to document and make a case for experiential credit in the sciences at a traditional institution, but can't hurt to make inquiries! I was surprised in the rockhounds survey a few months ago at how many folks who responded wanted to take courses in mineralogy, crystallography, etc. I knwo there are a lot out there on the list without the formal credentials whose knowledge and teaching skill rival that of any lettered faculty. Such is the value of experiential credit. Anyway, had to chime in. Tangojuli PhD Candidate (yippee, finally!), Higher Education Adminstration and Policy (and someone whose military experience did translate well in experiential credit!) Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2005 08:27:18 -0700 From: Al Balmer Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] experential certificates in geology and mineralogy To: Rock Currier , "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <436B7DD6.4010808@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Rock Currier wrote: > Jennifer, > > Your request for information about experiential certificates in geology and > mineralogy started me wondering "What in the heck is she taking about? I > never heard of anything like that. I've heard the term. It seems to mean getting a diploma or certificate without the need to do any actual studying, based on your "life experience" and your ability to pay. --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From diente at prismnet.com Sat Nov 5 06:09:02 2005 From: diente at prismnet.com (diente@prismnet.com) Date: Sat Nov 5 06:09:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sorcerer In-Reply-To: <003201c5e1b0$d0eb4360$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <436C689E.5012.1181216F@localhost> Back in the summers of my college days, I worked at the Conoco yellow cake plant. We had a water leak, and were trying to find the buried water lines some distance away from the leak. Although we had a general idea of where the lines were supposed to be, several holes were fruitlessly excavated. Finally one of the guys pulled out a couple of welding bars (wires). He bent them in an L shape. He walked around and where the wires crossed, we dug. Dead on. I even tried it in my own hands, and the wires crossed whenever we walked over the pipes. I did this a few other times with success, just playing around, demonstrating to my Dad and brother. Never could get it to work with a forked stick. This just brought back memories, because my Dad tried to water witch our newly bought property when I was about 7. IWe still have the Super8 film of him vainly trying to find water. I guess everyone has to try witching after you see someone else do it. My brother, the dreamer, who sometimes feels he has a "gift", experimented with witching for awhile. I think he claimed he could feel the pull on a forked stick, but I don't know that he ever had much success finding water. Paul Bordovsky Austin, TX > Steve, > > My neighbor handed me a couple of bent coat hangers and told me to > walk his property looking for water. I was skeptical, but the wires > crossed over his well every time. I tried it again on my property. > Same results - the wires crossed right over my well and the pipes > leading from it. Property here in northern Idaho is selling fast and > the local well driller dowses before he drills. He wouldn't still be > in business if it didn't work. This is dry country but the guy manages > to find the aquifer every time. > > I too would be interested in further discussion on this. > > Fellow heretic - John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve & Marilyn" > > >It is my understanding that the word sorcerer refers to a water > >witch. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sat Nov 5 06:13:01 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Nov 5 06:13:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] reply to water dowser training mention In-Reply-To: <0ab101c5e1cc$982cfbb0$6901a8c0@LOSJKUOLT2> Message-ID: <20051105141302.28721.qmail@web34604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wow! The email from Steve (of Steve & Marilyn) where he spoke of his first meeting with a water witch, who handed him a branch from a peach tree - I was so awestruck when I saw Mr Bumbardner's twig bend - if I had been holding one that bent like that - well, I would have either keeled over or messed myself! There's something going on with the dowsers (I've never heard a water witch called a "sorcerer" before, but whatever flys in your neighborhood...) for sure, and I don't have a clue what it could be. Vibrations from crystals flowing in the vein of water, maybe. Now, I would have thought that in Kansas all the wells in a large area would take advantage of a single horizontal acquifer, but maybe there are good and bad spots even in those big thick western horizontal aquifers... My neighbor is a hydrologist with USGS here in WV (tho their area extends into little parts of VA and other surrounding states depending on the research project being worked on) and helped me understand the rebound effect and the crack/fault system of ground water acquifers around here. The deep horizontal aquifers in my neighborhood are filled with brine and oil. AFter a long talk, Terry and I decided that in an area with a big thick hi-grade aquifer of porous rock, it would be easy to act like a water witch, and you can drill a well nearly anywhere. But in my experience, they won't take money for the witching of a new well, so what would be the point of pretending? And there are other things that defy current knowledge and which we have a hard time researching, and how do you work on something that only happens at random times due to we know not what stimulus? If that's not too terribly bad a sentence. Thanks for your understanding where I was going with that. Lots of the participants have litle patience with the vibrations folks, me included. But I guess I have more patience than many, and I at least know that there are more things under the sun, Horatio, than are dreamt of... I had a friend die of breast cancer recently, who at first worked hard to cure herself with alternate therapy, and only went to a MD when it was far too late. She always was a little hippy-dippy (and I say that as a Greatful Dead fan), and it was cute when it was routine things that we get over mostly on our own immune system anyway, but that last time...and now she's gone, just like that. I think Einstein once said (or another of the past century's physics masters, anyway) that "The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we CAN imagine!" It's hard to keep that in mind all the time, but I think there's extreme wisdom in there. If the inventors of tools like special and general relativity and quantum physics believe that, it would be wise for us normally intelligent folks to remember that we don't know all there is to know, and won't ever. But could it be that there's a reason I really really like some minerals, and others just don't interest me that much at all? Because that's very much the fact, there are nice big expensive rocks that I wouldn't accept as a gift. (Well, maybe as a gift...) JR Private email: > > I'm a rock-hard scientist. :-) Caltech educated. > > But when I think of this stuff about vibrational > energies and consider, > these people must be basing their beliefs on > something... The only thing I > can think of would be, > > Consider flourescence. It's energy coming from the > mineral at a specific > wavelength. All natural things have vibrational > energy, and some of it come > out as specific wavelengths. > > Of course, someone has to feed in energy to get some > out... > > But anyway, that's what I come up with. > > But I think I'm much like you. Hey, if it works for > them, good for them. __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From tblackwood1 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 5 06:22:51 2005 From: tblackwood1 at yahoo.com (Timothy Blackwood) Date: Sat Nov 5 06:22:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) Message-ID: <20051105142251.93526.qmail@web54704.mail.yahoo.com> Hello everyone, I have a question about the stability of orpiment and realgar. Are the realgar crystals from China any more stable in the presence of light than those from Nevada, or other localities? Also, I have a nice miniature of orpiment from the Twin Creeks Mine, Nevada, as well as another small cabinet from the old finds in Peru. I've read that orpiment is sometimes considered light-sensitive. Is this true, or are they more stable? Should exposure to light be avoided? Is sunlight worse than indoor lighting? Also, what minerals do orpiment and realgar alter too in the presence of light? Thank you very much in advance and I'll look forward to hearing from you soon. :) Sincerely, Tim Blackwood Timothy J. Blackwood E-mail: tblackwood1@yahoo.com Phone: (218)328-6272 Home Address: 120 N.W. 5th Street Apt. #101 Cohasset, Minnesota, USA 55721 __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sat Nov 5 07:04:49 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sat Nov 5 07:05:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Detroit show, painite Message-ID: The problem with ignoring any sort of embargo is that sooner or later the government prosecutes someone to make a point. AT BEST the target ends up spending huge amounts of money to defend themselves against an entity that has nearly limitless resources. I'd rather know that such embargos exist and frankly I'm grateful someone brought it up since I had not heard there was one on Burma. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 11/5/2005 12:58:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tjokela@execulink.com writes: An embargo like that is kind of a joke, don't you think? How many Americans illegally visit Cuba for warm sun and sandy beaches? And why isn't every single item produced in China under embargo? Blood diamonds, anybody? Lots of restrictions here and there, most are ignored. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 5 07:34:55 2005 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Nov 5 07:36:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] reply to water dowser training mention References: <20051105141302.28721.qmail@web34604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004401c5e21e$a4db2a10$db884c0c@LarryRush> > And there are other things that defy current knowledge > and which we have a hard time researching, and how do > you work on something that only happens at random > times due to we know not what stimulus? If that's not > too terribly bad a sentence. > > Thanks for your understanding where I was going with > that. Lots of the participants have litle patience > with the vibrations folks, me included. But I guess I > have more patience than many, and I at least know that > there are more things under the sun, Horatio, than are > dreamt of... JR brings up an interesting point.........And reminds me of an incident I had a couple of years ago. At a mineral show, a woman walked up, wrapped her hands around a large Brazilian quartz crystal I had, and remarked that it wasn't good, it was very, very cold. No problem, but not more than 5 minutes later, a young man came up, did the same thing to the same crystal, and raved about how warm it was, how much power it had (he bought the crystal). Now, the temp hadn't changed during those few minutes, so the obvious reaction came from these peoples minds. Doctors often counsel patients about the power that positive thinking can have on the body's healing process. We don't really know how the brain works, but there are countless examples of how our minds and emotions affect our physical selves, maybe we really can affect the environment outside our bodies, too. I like to think of myself as an educated scientist, too, as many of us do, but with education should come a profound respect for what we don't know. I'm inclined to agree with JR, don't knock what you don't understand! If you want to gain some humility about our limited knowledge as to how physical things work, try reading a modern text on recent thinking on the cosmos, with string theory and quantum mechanics, if you can understand it (I can't). It may change your way of thinking about a number of things, dowsing included! Larry From pjmodreski at att.net Sat Nov 5 08:37:51 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sat Nov 5 08:37:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] water witching (also... XRD) Message-ID: <110520051637.12497.436CDFDF0000ACAF000030D1216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> The USGS had a brochure on Water Dowsing, out of print as a paper hand-out (it's dated 1968) but still accessible online as a pdf file; you can read it at, http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/water_dowsing/index.html It is a nice balanced discussion of what dowsing claims to do, a quite interesting background summary of the history of dowsing, some facts about groundwater and where it exists, etc. One section of the brochure concludes with, "...Numerous books and pamphlets have been written on the subject of water dowsing. Some of these publications report on scientifically controlled experiments and investigations. From these findings, the U.S.Geological Survey has concluded that the expense of further tests of water dowsing is not justified." and it does also refer to an older, detailed USGS report (should be available at university or other large libraries that have good collections of USGS reports), "The only comprehensive report on water dowsing published by the U.S.Geological Survey is The Divining Rod, A History of Water Witching, by A.J. Ellis, published as USGS Water-Supply Paper 416 in 1917 and reprinted in 1957. This report contains detailed information and includes references to several hundred papers on the use of the divining rod and related subjects." I've had no personal experience with dowsing, and I've always been very skeptical (and continue to be) about whether it could really work, but... as many have said, I've certainly heard stories of people who swear they've seen it work. One was my late colleague Dr. Eugene Foord, who had his own story about watching someone locate buried water pipes with a dowsing rod (I don't remember what kind), and I'm pretty sure that he said he tried it himself and did indeed seem to feel a "pull" at the right spot. His comment was... he was skeptical about how it could possibly work, but had no explanation for why it "seemed" to. As you (Tim) said, a double blind experiment is what's really needed (where neither the subject "doing" the dowsing, or the observer watching him & recording the results, know where the "target" is actually located); and my presumption is (as the USGS brochure implies) that any "scientific" tests that have been done, either have not met these criteria, or, have only yielded ambiguous results. (P.S., 'nother topic, someone had mentioned they'd seen a USGS online summary about X-ray diffraction, here it is, it gives a good description of how the technique works and is used:) http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/of01-041/ Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from "Tim Jokela Jr." : -------------- > Sorry Steve, but dowsing has been thoroughly debunked. > > Don't take my word for it, test it yourself, in a thorough, scientific > manner, eg. double blind test. > > Lord I hope this thread doesn't go wild. Next thing the crystal power types > will be finding radioactive oil by telepathic dowsing, channelling the > wisdom of ancient Albanian shoemakers, and aligning their chakras with the > natural healing power of realgar. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 09:08:03 2005 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sat Nov 5 09:08:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] XRD Intro was ... water witching (also... XRD) Message-ID: Pete, Thanks for the reference to the XRD site. It seems to have good introductory information and I intend to read it all. It seems as if this was originally distributed as a CD-ROM. For others like me who would also like to have this available for offline use, after a little googling I was able to download the full pdf version from http://www.bucknell.edu/img/assets/6915/USGS%20XRD%20Manual.pdf Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 11/5/05, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > The USGS had a brochure on Water Dowsing, out of print as a paper hand-out (it's dated 1968) but still accessible online as a pdf file; you can read it at, > > http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/water_dowsing/index.html > > It is a nice balanced discussion of what dowsing claims to do, a quite interesting background summary of the history of dowsing, some facts about groundwater and where it exists, etc. One section of the brochure concludes with, > > "...Numerous books and pamphlets have been written on the subject of water dowsing. > Some of these publications report on scientifically controlled experiments and > investigations. From these findings, the U.S.Geological Survey has concluded that the > expense of further tests of water dowsing is not justified." > > and it does also refer to an older, detailed USGS report (should be available at university or other large libraries that have good collections of USGS reports), > > "The only comprehensive report on water dowsing published by the U.S.Geological Survey is The Divining Rod, A History of Water Witching, by A.J. Ellis, published as USGS Water-Supply Paper 416 in 1917 and reprinted in 1957. This report contains detailed information and includes references to several hundred papers on the use of the divining rod and related subjects." > > > > I've had no personal experience with dowsing, and I've always been very skeptical (and continue to be) about whether it could really work, but... as many have said, I've certainly heard stories of people who swear they've seen it work. One was my late colleague Dr. Eugene Foord, who had his own story about watching someone locate buried water pipes with a dowsing rod (I don't remember what kind), and I'm pretty sure that he said he tried it himself and did indeed seem to feel a "pull" at the right spot. His comment was... he was skeptical about how it could possibly work, but had no explanation for why it "seemed" to. > > As you (Tim) said, a double blind experiment is what's really needed (where neither the subject "doing" the dowsing, or the observer watching him & recording the results, know where the "target" is actually located); and my presumption is (as the USGS brochure implies) that any "scientific" tests that have been done, either have not met these criteria, or, have only yielded ambiguous results. > > (P.S., 'nother topic, someone had mentioned they'd seen a USGS online summary about X-ray diffraction, here it is, it gives a good description of how the technique works and is used:) > > http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/of01-041/ > > Pete Modreski > -------------- Original message from "Tim Jokela Jr." : -------------- > > > > Sorry Steve, but dowsing has been thoroughly debunked. > > > > Don't take my word for it, test it yourself, in a thorough, scientific > > manner, eg. double blind test. > > > > Lord I hope this thread doesn't go wild. Next thing the crystal power types > > will be finding radioactive oil by telepathic dowsing, channelling the > > wisdom of ancient Albanian shoemakers, and aligning their chakras with the > > natural healing power of realgar. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From afox at panix.com Sat Nov 5 09:10:53 2005 From: afox at panix.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sat Nov 5 09:10:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] young rockhounds (fwd) Message-ID: Anyone have any advice they can share? I doubt that Angie is on the rockhounds list, so please feel free to mail her back personally. a. -- afox at panix dot com || http://www.panix.com/~afox "Being intelligent is not a felony. But most societies evaluate it as at least a misdemeanor" -- Robert Heinlein, 'Time Enough for Love' ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:04:24 -0500 From: Angie To: afox@drizzle.com Subject: young rockhounds Dear Aaron, I am a 11 year old girl in Zionsville, Indiana and I am interested in clubs in my area but I can't seem to find any. Any suggestions? Zionsville is located just north of Indianapolis but we are moving to Bloomington, Indiana in the spring. Thanks Emma Hopkins From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sat Nov 5 09:55:42 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sat Nov 5 09:55:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] reply to water dowser training mention References: <20051105141302.28721.qmail@web34604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004401c5e21e$a4db2a10$db884c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <000901c5e232$24c37a80$78f1edc1@mpc1> > had a couple of years ago. At a mineral show, a woman walked up, wrapped > her hands around a large Brazilian quartz crystal I had, and remarked that > it wasn't good, it was very, very cold. No problem, but not more than 5 > minutes later, a young man came up, did the same thing to the same > crystal, and raved about how warm it was, how much power it had (he bought > the crystal). In the same vein I was once harangued by a French crystal power person who objected when he saw me taking flash photos of minerals on a stand at a mineral show. Flash, he told me, destroys their power. We got to talking and introduced ourselves. "Ah Mick Cooper" he said, "I've seen your pictures in Mineralogical Record. They are great ... so good you can feel the power in the crystals even in the photo." I didn't have to heart to tell him that ALL my photos are taken with a flashgun. Mick From hammerron at yahoo.com Sat Nov 5 09:57:58 2005 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sat Nov 5 09:57:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Selenite Sand vs Hadiwipes Message-ID: <003301c5e232$85c43e00$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> I have a piece of selenite sand (hope that's still the proper terminology). I've had it for a long time. A picture of it in its former state is available here: http://hammerron.com/minerals/selenite%20sand.jpg I think the piece is about 8 inches long. It is (er was) very attractive, and had survived several moves. I kept it in a drawer of a wooden cabinet. About eight years ago, I put the whole cabinet in "storage". It went into a small wooden shed of mine. I live in New England in case climate is a consideration. I had used a handi wipe as a cloth to cushion the underside of the specimen. Anyone remember them? Reusable yet disposable wash "cloths" The handiwipe was green and white in color. Today, I decided to move the cabinet. I open the drawer to find the cloth partially disintegrated, and the selenite sand has green spot throughout areas of it. I tried blowing on it, and the green does not seem to budge. I was exasperated and tired from the work that I did, so just closed up the drawer, and thought I'd submit this info to the list and see if anyone might have any advice for me before I try and see if I can do anything to clean or repair the specimen. -Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Sat Nov 5 11:16:30 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sat Nov 5 11:16:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) References: <20051105142251.93526.qmail@web54704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004501c5e23d$6dc3d440$6400a8c0@Junior> You'll want to protect all realgar from prolonged light exposure. The stibility of orpiment seems a little up in the air; I'd love to hear if folks have had specimens deteriorate in light. Matrix composed of sulfides can be another problem with the Peruvian orpiment. I'm fond of these two sulfides, and keep them in a dark drawer; better safe than sorry. The alteration product of realgar is pararealgar, not orpiment, as many books claim. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Blackwood" To: Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:22 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) > Hello everyone, > > I have a question about the stability of orpiment and realgar. Are > the realgar crystals from > China any more stable in the presence of light than those from Nevada, or > other localities? Also, > I have a nice miniature of orpiment from the Twin Creeks Mine, Nevada, as > well as another small > cabinet from the old finds in Peru. I've read that orpiment is sometimes > considered > light-sensitive. Is this true, or are they more stable? Should exposure > to light be avoided? Is > sunlight worse than indoor lighting? Also, what minerals do orpiment and > realgar alter too in the > presence of light? Thank you very much in advance and I'll look forward > to hearing from you soon. > :) > > Sincerely, > Tim Blackwood > > Timothy J. Blackwood > E-mail: tblackwood1@yahoo.com > Phone: (218)328-6272 > Home Address: > 120 N.W. 5th Street Apt. #101 > Cohasset, Minnesota, USA 55721 > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From johnjold at comcast.net Sat Nov 5 11:47:07 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Sat Nov 5 11:47:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks Message-ID: <605215c6e5b2e165747b67ddb1c4fb85@comcast.net> The current questions about the "powers" of crystals and rocks brings back memories of the years 1987-91 I spent in business selling at psychic fairs and on the Gem Faire circuit with a "healy feely" emphasis. My knowledge of rocks and sources meshed well with a partner from the "new age". There are effects of rocks and crystals on people because I learned what worked to sell the stuff. The effects are all based on the chart of chakra positions. The most reliable were kyanite wands from Brazil. Blue kyanite could set off the pineal gland in a lot of women in particular. That is the third eye in the forehead. The other really reliable mineral was hexagonite from NY. A 4 ounce chunk would relax the muscles in the whole arm of whoever held it. I was always amazed that half of the take for the weekend would be from 3 or so baskets out of the 125+ I carried. Rose Quartz and Green Aventurine were always number 1 and 2. Now it would be hard to find a more non new age person than me. This was not about belief it was about money. I had lost any interest in anything supernatural by the age of 12. I do believe in the human mine though I have seen so few who use theirs. A lifetime of learning is one thing, a lifetime of holding to irrational belief is another. I am in horror of much of what I learned on the new age circuit as I am of much of the politically motivated religiosity currently passing for religion. I wish there was a demand in learning how to examine belief. I could help with that. I wish I could remember who said "Unexamined beliefs are not worth having". I once sat in on a "Channel Panel" at the Whole Life Expo at Oakland CC in 1998. There were 5 people on the panel. They all claimed to channel spirits. It got so wild, they were phasing in and out of channeling, sometime they were themselves and sometimes they were in a "trance". Entirely laughable, but then the first time I saw Benny Hind I thought it was a Saturday Night Live sketch. From tangojuli at yahoo.com Sat Nov 5 12:14:23 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Sat Nov 5 12:14:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Angie--Clubs in Indiana Message-ID: <20051105201423.62299.qmail@web60825.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Angie-- Welcome to the rockhounds list. there are a couple clubs in Indiana that you might contact. The 500 Earth Sciences group contact I think is Nelson Shaffer at the indiana geological survey in Bloomington. They meet in Indianapolis as far as I know and do rocks and fossils related activities. I do not know of a club up near Zionsville (NE indianapolis), but there is a club up in Lafayette, near Purdue. Nelson Shaffer is also a point of contact for the Midwest Friends of Minerology that meets a couple times a year in Indiana. There is a wonderful warm club in Lawrence County--Bedford, Indiana which is just south of Bloomington. I think they are the Lawrence County Rock and Mineral club(not entirely sure of that title). They are great folks and I highly recommend you contact them and join the club. They will share with you all kinds of great places to go rock collecting in southern Indiana and have lots of kids in the club too. If you have access to the internet, you can find these groups or the people in them online. I just moved from Bloomington a few months ago, and there wasn't a club in Blgn that I knew of, but the rock collecting down in bloomington is awesome. Contact me off list and I'll give you some localities and maps to get you started. Tina tangojuli@yahoo.com Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:04:24 -0500 From: Angie To: afox@drizzle.com Subject: young rockhounds Dear Aaron, I am a 11 year old girl in Zionsville, Indiana and I am interested in clubs in my area but I can't seem to find any. Any suggestions? Zionsville is located just north of Indianapolis but we are moving to Bloomington, Indiana in the spring. Thanks Emma Hopkins Message: 23 --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ki3u at hotmail.com Sat Nov 5 12:18:55 2005 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Sat Nov 5 12:18:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks In-Reply-To: <605215c6e5b2e165747b67ddb1c4fb85@comcast.net> Message-ID: I'll risk being ridiculed here, but lets consider this: Before us are two separated black boxes, A and B. Both contain within them resonant circuits. Box A is resonant to frequency Fa, while box B is resonant to frequency Fb. The nature of the wave phenomenon is immaterial to this example. A source of waves, vibrating at Fb, propagates its wave energy across the two black boxes. Box B's resonant circuit is significantly affected, but Box A's is not significantly affected. Let Box B be a human being who feels something definite from interaction with certain crystals. Let Box A be a human being who does not. Let the aforementioned vibration source be a crystal that, to the satisfaction of B, according to B's criteria, causes or at least relays effects upon B. It is going to be extremely difficult to rule out, scientifically, that B is sensitive to something real and worthy of investigation by somebody in the scientific world. For example, the arguement that if B's favorite crystal is surreptitiously, in a closed bag, brought near B, and B does not exhibit any signs of a reaction, does not work. It does not work because the nature of B's resonance may be such that visual contact with the crystal is first necessary before the effects that B feels become noticable. Certainly the beauty of crystals affect people. How is one to rule out, rule out scientifically, that certain people, even if only very few, are affected in ways even more subtle than emotional reaction to beauty? Berj / KI3U >From: John Joldersma >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com": A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors >CC: John Joldersma >Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks >Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:47:07 -0500 > > The current questions about the "powers" of crystals and rocks brings >back >memories of the years 1987-91 I spent in business selling at psychic fairs >and on the >Gem Faire circuit with a "healy feely" emphasis. > My knowledge of rocks and sources meshed well with a partner from the >"new >age". There are effects of rocks and crystals on people because I learned >what >worked to sell the stuff. The effects are all based on the chart of chakra > positions. >The most reliable were kyanite wands from Brazil. Blue kyanite could set >off the >pineal gland in a lot of women in particular. That is the third eye in the >forehead. >The other really reliable mineral was hexagonite from NY. A 4 ounce chunk >would >relax the muscles in the whole arm of whoever held it. > I was always amazed that half of the take for the weekend would be >from 3 or so >baskets out of the 125+ I carried. Rose Quartz and Green Aventurine were >always >number 1 and 2. > Now it would be hard to find a more non new age person than me. This >was not >about belief it was about money. I had lost any interest in anything >supernatural >by the age of 12. I do believe in the human mine though I have seen so few >who >use theirs. A lifetime of learning is one thing, a lifetime of holding to >irrational >belief is another. I am in horror of much of what I learned on the new age >circuit as >I am of much of the politically motivated religiosity currently passing for >religion. > I wish there was a demand in learning how to examine belief. I could >help with >that. I wish I could remember who said "Unexamined beliefs are not worth >having". > I once sat in on a "Channel Panel" at the Whole Life Expo at Oakland >CC in 1998. >There were 5 people on the panel. They all claimed to channel spirits. It >got so >wild, they were phasing in and out of channeling, sometime they were >themselves >and sometimes they were in a "trance". Entirely laughable, but then the >first time >I saw Benny Hind I thought it was a Saturday Night Live sketch. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 5 12:45:06 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Nov 5 12:45:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Selenite Sand vs Hadiwipes In-Reply-To: <003301c5e232$85c43e00$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Message-ID: <20051105204506.60209.qmail@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Can't tell to much from the picture, but I would suspect that the green is mold of some sort. It would fit from the cloth rotting away. Jim Daly > Today, I decided to move the cabinet. I open the > drawer to find the cloth partially disintegrated, > and the selenite sand has green spot throughout > areas of it. I tried blowing on it, and the green > does not seem to budge. > > I was exasperated and tired from the work that I > did, so just closed up the drawer, and thought I'd > submit this info to the list and see if anyone might > have any advice for me before I try and see if I can > do anything to clean or repair the specimen. > > -Ron > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sat Nov 5 15:55:14 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sat Nov 5 15:55:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: Message-ID: <011b01c5e264$5dab46c0$6402a8c0@remains> I think if the moderators want to creat a rule, they should create one prohibiting the discussion of the healing powers of crystals. Sure, EVERYTHING on this planet that is composed of matter has energy...why not leave it at that? There are plenty of heely-feely lists out there for these people to be on...let's please not turn this into one of those. If I never hear the word "chakra" again., I will be a happy man. Even those that are posted as examples of the ridiculousness of this "science" should I think be off-topic. Can we not ban this all-together? 98% of this market is complete bull****...designed only make crystals worth $7.00 per pond worth $7.00 per gram. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berj N. Ensanian" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 1:18 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > > > I'll risk being ridiculed here, but lets consider this: > > Before us are two separated black boxes, A and B. Both contain within them > resonant circuits. Box A is resonant to frequency Fa, while box B is > resonant to frequency Fb. The nature of the wave phenomenon is immaterial > to this example. > > A source of waves, vibrating at Fb, propagates its wave energy across the > two black boxes. Box B's resonant circuit is significantly affected, but > Box A's is not significantly affected. > > Let Box B be a human being who feels something definite from interaction > with certain crystals. Let Box A be a human being who does not. Let the > aforementioned vibration source be a crystal that, to the satisfaction of > B, according to B's criteria, causes or at least relays effects upon B. > > It is going to be extremely difficult to rule out, scientifically, that B > is sensitive to something real and worthy of investigation by somebody in > the scientific world. For example, the arguement that if B's favorite > crystal is surreptitiously, in a closed bag, brought near B, and B does > not exhibit any signs of a reaction, does not work. It does not work > because the nature of B's resonance may be such that visual contact with > the crystal is first necessary before the effects that B feels become > noticable. > > Certainly the beauty of crystals affect people. How is one to rule out, > rule out scientifically, that certain people, even if only very few, are > affected in ways even more subtle than emotional reaction to beauty? > > Berj / KI3U > > > > >>From: John Joldersma >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com": A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors >>CC: John Joldersma >>Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks >>Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:47:07 -0500 >> >> The current questions about the "powers" of crystals and rocks brings >> back >>memories of the years 1987-91 I spent in business selling at psychic fairs >>and on the >>Gem Faire circuit with a "healy feely" emphasis. >> My knowledge of rocks and sources meshed well with a partner from >> the "new >>age". There are effects of rocks and crystals on people because I learned >>what >>worked to sell the stuff. The effects are all based on the chart of >>chakra positions. >>The most reliable were kyanite wands from Brazil. Blue kyanite could set >>off the >>pineal gland in a lot of women in particular. That is the third eye in >>the forehead. >>The other really reliable mineral was hexagonite from NY. A 4 ounce chunk >>would >>relax the muscles in the whole arm of whoever held it. >> I was always amazed that half of the take for the weekend would be >> from 3 or so >>baskets out of the 125+ I carried. Rose Quartz and Green Aventurine were >>always >>number 1 and 2. >> Now it would be hard to find a more non new age person than me. This >> was not >>about belief it was about money. I had lost any interest in anything >>supernatural >>by the age of 12. I do believe in the human mine though I have seen so >>few who >>use theirs. A lifetime of learning is one thing, a lifetime of holding to >>irrational >>belief is another. I am in horror of much of what I learned on the new >>age circuit as >>I am of much of the politically motivated religiosity currently passing >>for religion. >> I wish there was a demand in learning how to examine belief. I >> could help with >>that. I wish I could remember who said "Unexamined beliefs are not worth >>having". >> I once sat in on a "Channel Panel" at the Whole Life Expo at Oakland >> CC in 1998. >>There were 5 people on the panel. They all claimed to channel spirits. It >>got so >>wild, they were phasing in and out of channeling, sometime they were >>themselves >>and sometimes they were in a "trance". Entirely laughable, but then the >>first time >>I saw Benny Hind I thought it was a Saturday Night Live sketch. >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Nov 5 16:28:15 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Nov 5 16:13:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Selenite Sand References: <200511051757.jA5HvHvv007850@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003701c5e268$fb19dee0$6901a8c0@rock3> Ron, Selenite is the a name that is generally reserved for well crystalized gypsum, which is often transparent. The big crystals of gypsum that occur in "The Cave of the Swords" in Mexico are all big crystals of gypsum v. selenite. It sounds like you have some kind of specimen of granular gypsum (similar in composition to wallboard). Gypsum is fairly soluble so if you put it on a moist handy wipe you could expect some interaction and perhaps even etching (partial solution) of the gypsum. Furthermore if there was some green die in the handywipe and you specimen is pours you might expect that capillary action would cause the moisture in the handywipe to be sucked up into the gypsum. We import a lot of specimens from China and sometimes our specimens are warped up in what passes for cheap paper towels in China. On occasion these paper towels are pink and when we unwrap the specimens here in the us we sometimes find our specimens stained pink from the transfer of the pink dye in the towels to the specimens. Conversely, we have imported some fossil coral from China that has been died red, and when unwrapping them here in the USA we have found that sometimes the packing paper had pink spots in it where the dye from the coral has been transferred to the wrapping material. If you specimen is one of gypsum sand and the green spot is not large and localized, you might be able to dig it out with the point of a knife without reducing the value of your specimen. It also occurred to me that if the green spot on you gypsum specimen is organic in nature that a drop of gypsum on it might bleach the color out with little harm to the specimen. Rock From agesilaus at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 16:38:17 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Nov 5 16:38:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Selenite Sand vs Hadiwipes In-Reply-To: <20051105204506.60209.qmail@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <003301c5e232$85c43e00$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <20051105204506.60209.qmail@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Isn't that a bit on the big side to be sand? White Sands National Monument is covered in Selenite Sand, which looks and acts like sand. I have a bag of it around here which we collected outside the park. BK On 11/5/05, Jim Daly wrote: > > Can't tell to much from the picture, but I would > suspect that the green is mold of some sort. It would > fit from the cloth rotting away. > Jim Daly > > > Today, I decided to move the cabinet. I open the > > drawer to find the cloth partially disintegrated, > > and the selenite sand has green spot throughout > > areas of it. I tried blowing on it, and the green > > does not seem to budge. > > > > I was exasperated and tired from the work that I > > did, so just closed up the drawer, and thought I'd > > submit this info to the list and see if anyone might > > have any advice for me before I try and see if I can > > do anything to clean or repair the specimen. > > > > -Ron > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Nov 5 16:59:45 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Nov 5 16:44:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Specimens from Burma References: <200511051757.jA5HvHvv007850@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003b01c5e26d$61af53c0$6901a8c0@rock3> Jim, What is going on with the specimens from Burma is that the stuff is exported from Burma to some country like France or Thailand and then sent on to the United States. The same thing happens with conflict (blood) diamonds of course. It does not appear with our current technology we are able to distinguish which diamonds are from which localities. If the diamonds are rough diamonds and have not been washed in hydrofluoric acid, there may be enough of the original rocks/clays hiding in some cracks on the diamond to determine where it is from and perhaps not. If they have been washed in HF to remove all matrix, it is currently not be able to tell if they are from a country under sanctions. I have heard that some proposals have made proposals to the government for sufficient funds to establish a substantial mineralogical laboratory with a lot of expensive equipment to study conflict diamonds with the idea of learning how to determine which are from interdicted localities. It might not be possible but when you consider how much money the government pounds down the drain on places like Iraq the amount of money to fund this would be a lot less than a modern war plane and what could be learned would probably be a lot more than what a combat jet would produce. With minerals, at least to people knowledgeable about them, it is pretty obvious which specimens are from Burma. I heard about a pound, yes a whole pound or was it perhaps a kg, of painite crystals that was just brought into the country. They have always been there, but now the locals have learned to id them and they are pouring out. Rock From agesilaus at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 16:47:57 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Nov 5 16:48:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] water witching (also... XRD) In-Reply-To: <110520051637.12497.436CDFDF0000ACAF000030D1216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <110520051637.12497.436CDFDF0000ACAF000030D1216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: The Amazing Randi has put up $1,000,000 for anyone who can prove that they can successfully dowse. THis is an increase above the $50,000 mentioned below. No winners yet: "The Man of a Thousand Tests, James "The Amazing" Randi, put 11 dowsers to the test for his then Fifty Thousand dollar psychic challenge. The water dowsing test involved ten identical pipes, one of which would have water flowing through it. Thus, chance would dictate a ten percent rate of success. Before the test began, Randi had them all dowse the surrounding area to assure that conditions were right for dowsing. Then, he inquired as to what they believed their rate of success would be. They all said about 80%. So, it was agreed that an 80% or higher rate of success would win the prize. The dowsers went to work. Later, they all traveled together to a local diner, the dowsers discussing how they would split up the sum between all of them. However, upon the tabulated results being announced at the diner, the faces of joy turned to disbelief. Their rate of success was a paltry 12%, not significantly different from chance. Randi folded up his check, thanked the challengers, and headed for home." http://www.geocities.com/skepdigest/Dowsing_in_Connecticut.html BJ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Sat Nov 5 16:50:29 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Nov 5 16:50:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sorcerer In-Reply-To: <003201c5e1b0$d0eb4360$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <20051106005026.3BF241E3081@alora.infowest.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sorcerer >Steve, >My neighbor handed me a couple of bent coat hangers and told me to walk his >property looking for water. I was skeptical, but the wires crossed over his >well every time. I tried it again on my property. Same results - the wires >crossed right over my well and the pipes leading from it. Property here in >northern Idaho is selling fast and the local well driller dowses before he >drills. He wouldn't still be in business if it didn't work. This is dry >country but the guy manages to find the aquifer every time. >I too would be interested in further discussion on this. >Fellow heretic - John John -- I know it sounds ridiculous, but in the Australian opal mines area, they sometimes look for opal that way, too -- with two bent rods. The rods actually indicate not opal, but the faults or irregulatities in the ground that indicats the possibility of opal there. I watched people doing it in a friend's back yard, and saw the rods swinging to cross. Hmmm. Stoopid, huh? So they said, "try it yourself". So I did, and it worked!! The first time, the rids diverged. "Swap hands" they said. Next time they crossed. And both times at exactly the same place where everybody else's did!----- Formerly doubting Margaret Original Message ----- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sat Nov 5 16:52:48 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sat Nov 5 16:52:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks Message-ID: Maybe to keep Michael happy any post that even hints at metaphysics should have a MP in the subject line, then he could just delete it and not have to hear the word chakra again. You are welcome to your beliefs that crystals are nothing more than atoms aligned in a precise order and leave it at that. No one will fault you for that belief. However there are enough people who do believe it and who can demonstrate it that they are entitled to their belief just as you are. And before you even start, I am not a "new age" person, but I have seen and felt enough to believe that there is a possibility that some people can tune into the energy. Yes there are people who inflate the value of crystals to take advantage of the "new age" belief. But if a person is smart enough to examine their belief in crystals, then they are smart enough to buy wisely. Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From agesilaus at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 17:08:46 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Nov 5 17:08:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks In-Reply-To: References: <605215c6e5b2e165747b67ddb1c4fb85@comcast.net> Message-ID: I think you misunderstand the nature of science. Science does not disprove anything, it accepts experimental results that are independantly reproducable. So people who believe in this 'hypothesis' need to design some experiments that demonstrate it. The one big block to any of these psychic effects are the Laws of Thermodynamics. The first question in my mind is always: where does the energy come from? Answer that and you'll get somewhere. BK On 11/5/05, Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > I'll risk being ridiculed here, but lets consider this: > > Before us are two separated black boxes, A and B. Both contain within them > resonant circuits. Box A is resonant to frequency Fa, while box B is > resonant to frequency Fb. The nature of the wave phenomenon is immaterial > to > this example. > > A source of waves, vibrating at Fb, propagates its wave energy across the > two black boxes. Box B's resonant circuit is significantly affected, but > Box > A's is not significantly affected. > > Let Box B be a human being who feels something definite from interaction > with certain crystals. Let Box A be a human being who does not. Let the > aforementioned vibration source be a crystal that, to the satisfaction of > B, > according to B's criteria, causes or at least relays effects upon B. > > It is going to be extremely difficult to rule out, scientifically, that B > is > sensitive to something real and worthy of investigation by somebody in the > scientific world. For example, the arguement that if B's favorite crystal > is > surreptitiously, in a closed bag, brought near B, and B does not exhibit > any > signs of a reaction, does not work. It does not work because the nature of > B's resonance may be such that visual contact with the crystal is first > necessary before the effects that B feels become noticable. > > Certainly the beauty of crystals affect people. How is one to rule out, > rule > out scientifically, that certain people, even if only very few, are > affected > in ways even more subtle than emotional reaction to beauty? > > Berj / KI3U > > > > > >From: John Joldersma > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com": A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors > >CC: John Joldersma > >Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > >Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:47:07 -0500 > > > > The current questions about the "powers" of crystals and rocks brings > >back > >memories of the years 1987-91 I spent in business selling at psychic > fairs > >and on the > >Gem Faire circuit with a "healy feely" emphasis. > > My knowledge of rocks and sources meshed well with a partner from the > >"new > >age". There are effects of rocks and crystals on people because I learned > >what > >worked to sell the stuff. The effects are all based on the chart of > chakra > > positions. > >The most reliable were kyanite wands from Brazil. Blue kyanite could set > >off the > >pineal gland in a lot of women in particular. That is the third eye in > the > >forehead. > >The other really reliable mineral was hexagonite from NY. A 4 ounce chunk > >would > >relax the muscles in the whole arm of whoever held it. > > I was always amazed that half of the take for the weekend would be > >from 3 or so > >baskets out of the 125+ I carried. Rose Quartz and Green Aventurine were > >always > >number 1 and 2. > > Now it would be hard to find a more non new age person than me. This > >was not > >about belief it was about money. I had lost any interest in anything > >supernatural > >by the age of 12. I do believe in the human mine though I have seen so > few > >who > >use theirs. A lifetime of learning is one thing, a lifetime of holding to > >irrational > >belief is another. I am in horror of much of what I learned on the new > age > >circuit as > >I am of much of the politically motivated religiosity currently passing > for > >religion. > > I wish there was a demand in learning how to examine belief. I could > >help with > >that. I wish I could remember who said "Unexamined beliefs are not worth > >having". > > I once sat in on a "Channel Panel" at the Whole Life Expo at Oakland > >CC in 1998. > >There were 5 people on the panel. They all claimed to channel spirits. It > >got so > >wild, they were phasing in and out of channeling, sometime they were > >themselves > >and sometimes they were in a "trance". Entirely laughable, but then the > >first time > >I saw Benny Hind I thought it was a Saturday Night Live sketch. > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Nov 5 17:34:31 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Nov 5 17:19:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Realgar & Orpiment References: <200511051757.jA5HvHvv007850@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003f01c5e272$3fa2cc30$6901a8c0@rock3> Tim, All minerlas are stable only under some conditions. You get them too hot and they turn into a gas (plasma), some at much higher temperatures than others. Some minerals are not very stable at STP (standard temperature/pressure-20 degrees centigrade at sealevel) conditions. Realgar can be stable for an indefinite time period depending on how you store it. The key to keeping realgar stable (looking good) is to keep it completely in the dark. It is aparently the green wavelengths of light that play particular havok with the stability of this mineral. Of the top of my head I think it alters to pararealgar and arsenolite? This has been studied and the decomposition products are know. I collected nice realgar crystals 40 years ago on the banks of the Green River near Black Diamond in Washington state and they are still looking good. But they have ,during all that time, been in a drawer that has rarely been opened. I have seen realgars that were collected more than 50 years ago from the Getchell mine in Nevada that have been kept in the dark and look good today. On the other hand, the best specimen of realgar that was ever found at Green River was put out in a glass display case at the Library at Stanford University and in a few months was too far gone to be saved. Other dealers have invested to the tune of hundreds dollars in fine realgar speicmens from the Shiming realgar mine in Hunan, China. Some of these speicmens were put out in display cases at a couple of shows and the dealers were horified to discover cracks developing in the crystals and orange alteration producst starting to appear on the speicmn. This is one of those minerals that dealers learn to sell quickly because they know it is not good to carry them in inventory for a long time. Orpiment is more stable than realgar and I would not fear putting one in a display in a display case for short periods of time. If your orpiment is very shiny, and you want to keep it that way for say 50 or 100 years, you should probably keep it in a dark cool dry place. The same is true of a raft of other minerals like chalcopyrite, proustite, borax, vanadinite, stibnite, pyrrhotite, sturmanite etc etc. Often the minerals them selves are pretty stable, but the colors in them can change considerably. This is true of amethyst and some barites & fluorites etc. The changes can be very slow but if you comapre one that has been in a display case for years with one that has been kept in the dark, the change is often shocking. Rock From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sat Nov 5 17:22:29 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sat Nov 5 17:22:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: <605215c6e5b2e165747b67ddb1c4fb85@comcast.net> Message-ID: <007201c5e270$8dedbeb0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> LOL......was that a Freudian slip, when you wrote .... > the human "mine" .....<< as in "gold mine"???? Jeanette From nate.gullimer at gmail.com Sat Nov 5 17:25:33 2005 From: nate.gullimer at gmail.com (Nate Gullimer) Date: Sat Nov 5 17:25:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks In-Reply-To: <605215c6e5b2e165747b67ddb1c4fb85@comcast.net> References: <605215c6e5b2e165747b67ddb1c4fb85@comcast.net> Message-ID: <2f16ceba0511051725n4a339320le054dd8cfd9cd846@mail.gmail.com> I for one would be interested in hearing more about the "healy feely" circuit. It sounds like a funny scene! It seems there is a fine line between humoring and exploiting these "new agers", but John, you seem to have handled it well. You gave them what they wanted while having an open enough mind not to completely discount their beliefs. I'm sure there are plenty of cynical types who would have sold "healing" crystals just to take advantage of these people. I bet your new-age partner came away from the experience equally enlightened, having learned from your experience. On 11/6/05, John Joldersma wrote: > > The current questions about the "powers" of crystals and rocks > brings back > memories of the years 1987-91 I spent in business selling at psychic > fairs and on the > Gem Faire circuit with a "healy feely" emphasis. > My knowledge of rocks and sources meshed well with a partner from > the "new > age". There are effects of rocks and crystals on people because I > learned what > worked to sell the stuff. The effects are all based on the chart of > chakra positions. > The most reliable were kyanite wands from Brazil. Blue kyanite could > set off the > pineal gland in a lot of women in particular. That is the third eye in > the forehead. > The other really reliable mineral was hexagonite from NY. A 4 ounce > chunk would > relax the muscles in the whole arm of whoever held it. > I was always amazed that half of the take for the weekend would be > from 3 or so > baskets out of the 125+ I carried. Rose Quartz and Green Aventurine > were always > number 1 and 2. > Now it would be hard to find a more non new age person than me. > This was not > about belief it was about money. I had lost any interest in anything > supernatural > by the age of 12. I do believe in the human mine though I have seen so > few who > use theirs. A lifetime of learning is one thing, a lifetime of holding > to irrational > belief is another. I am in horror of much of what I learned on the new > age circuit as > I am of much of the politically motivated religiosity currently passing > for religion. > I wish there was a demand in learning how to examine belief. I > could help with > that. I wish I could remember who said "Unexamined beliefs are not > worth having". > I once sat in on a "Channel Panel" at the Whole Life Expo at > Oakland CC in 1998. > There were 5 people on the panel. They all claimed to channel spirits. > It got so > wild, they were phasing in and out of channeling, sometime they were > themselves > and sometimes they were in a "trance". Entirely laughable, but then > the first time > I saw Benny Hind I thought it was a Saturday Night Live sketch. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 5 17:30:31 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 5 17:27:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Selenite Sand vs Hadiwipes References: <003301c5e232$85c43e00$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Message-ID: <436D5C18.7390@Tomaszewski.net> Ron, About the only cleaning procedure I know of for selenite/gypsum is to rinse it with cold flowing water and let it dry. Anything else causes scratches. Kreigh The Hammer wrote: > > I think the piece is about 8 inches long. It is (er was) very attractive, and had survived several m > > I had used a handi wipe as a cloth to cushion the underside of the specimen. Anyone remember them? Reusable yet disposable wash "cloths" The handiwipe was green and white in color. > > Today, I decided to move the cabinet. I open the drawer to find the cloth partially disintegrated, and the selenite sand has green spot throughout areas of it. I tried blowing on it, and the green does not seem to budge. > > I was exasperated and tired from the work that I did, so just closed up the drawer, and thought I'd submit this info to the list and see if anyone might have any advice for me before I try and see if I can do anything to clean or repair the specimen. > > -Ron From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Nov 5 17:56:20 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Nov 5 17:41:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Realgar & Orpiment References: <200511051757.jA5HvHvv007850@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004001c5e275$493c0b50$6901a8c0@rock3> Tim, All minerlas are stable only under some conditions. You get them too hot and they turn into a gas (plasma), some at much higher temperatures than others. Some minerals are not very stable at STP (standard temperature/pressure-20 degrees centigrade at sealevel) conditions. Realgar can be stable for an indefinite time period depending on how you store it. The key to keeping realgar stable (looking good) is to keep it completely in the dark. It is aparently the green wavelengths of light that play particular havok with the stability of this mineral. Of the top of my head I think it alters to pararealgar and arsenolite? This has been studied and the decomposition products are know. I collected nice realgar crystals 40 years ago on the banks of the Green River near Black Diamond in Washington state and they are still looking good. But they have ,during all that time, been in a drawer that has rarely been opened. I have seen realgars that were collected more than 50 years ago from the Getchell mine in Nevada that have been kept in the dark and look good today. On the other hand, the best specimen of realgar that was ever found at Green River was put out in a glass display case at the Library at Stanford University and in a few months was too far gone to be saved. Other dealers have invested to the tune of hundreds dollars in fine realgar speicmens from the Shiming realgar mine in Hunan, China. Some of these speicmens were put out in display cases at a couple of shows and the dealers were horified to discover cracks developing in the crystals and orange alteration producst starting to appear on the speicmn. This is one of those minerals that dealers learn to sell quickly because they know it is not good to carry them in inventory for a long time. Orpiment is more stable than realgar and I would not fear putting one in a display in a display case for short periods of time. If your orpiment is very shiny, and you want to keep it that way for say 50 or 100 years, you should probably keep it in a dark cool dry place. The same is true of a raft of other minerals like chalcopyrite, proustite, borax, vanadinite, stibnite, pyrrhotite, sturmanite etc etc. Often the minerals them selves are pretty stable, but the colors in them can change considerably. This is true of amethyst and some barites & fluorites etc. The changes can be very slow but if you comapre one that has been in a display case for years with one that has been kept in the dark, the change is often shocking. Rock From ki3u at hotmail.com Sat Nov 5 17:45:46 2005 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Sat Nov 5 17:45:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks Message-ID: I think you are confusing my statement "How is one to rule out, rule out scientifically, ...." with an imperative to "disprove". My intent was to convey that the scientific spirit is open-minded to the possibility of undiscovered and perhaps even unsuspected phenomena, that with further work may well become independently reproducable. Sorry if I was not clear enough. Yes definitely, one would like to see scientific experiments designed to investigate these reports. To make that more probable though, will perhaps require a less hostile attitude toward the subject. Where does the energy come from when we write these lines? Where does it really come from? Since you know thermodynamics, you know that it begins with boundaries, boundaries that specify the systems under consideration. Specify different boundaries, and you specify different thermodynamic systems. Are we to discount the possibility that there exists a thermodynamic boundary, or set of coupled boundaries, that harbor a new, and scientifically interesting, human-crystal-interaction phenomenon? >From: J Bryan Kramer >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks >Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 20:08:46 -0500 > >I think you misunderstand the nature of science. Science does not disprove >anything, it accepts experimental results that are independantly >reproducable. > So people who believe in this 'hypothesis' need to design some >experiments >that demonstrate it. > The one big block to any of these psychic effects are the Laws of >Thermodynamics. The first question in my mind is always: where does the >energy come from? > Answer that and you'll get somewhere. > BK > > On 11/5/05, Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > > > I'll risk being ridiculed here, but lets consider this: > > > > Before us are two separated black boxes, A and B. Both contain within >them > > resonant circuits. Box A is resonant to frequency Fa, while box B is > > resonant to frequency Fb. The nature of the wave phenomenon is >immaterial > > to > > this example. > > > > A source of waves, vibrating at Fb, propagates its wave energy across >the > > two black boxes. Box B's resonant circuit is significantly affected, but > > Box > > A's is not significantly affected. > > > > Let Box B be a human being who feels something definite from interaction > > with certain crystals. Let Box A be a human being who does not. Let the > > aforementioned vibration source be a crystal that, to the satisfaction >of > > B, > > according to B's criteria, causes or at least relays effects upon B. > > > > It is going to be extremely difficult to rule out, scientifically, that >B > > is > > sensitive to something real and worthy of investigation by somebody in >the > > scientific world. For example, the arguement that if B's favorite >crystal > > is > > surreptitiously, in a closed bag, brought near B, and B does not exhibit > > any > > signs of a reaction, does not work. It does not work because the nature >of > > B's resonance may be such that visual contact with the crystal is first > > necessary before the effects that B feels become noticable. > > > > Certainly the beauty of crystals affect people. How is one to rule out, > > rule > > out scientifically, that certain people, even if only very few, are > > affected > > in ways even more subtle than emotional reaction to beauty? > > > > Berj / KI3U > > > > > > > > > > >From: John Joldersma > > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > >collectors" > > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com": A mailing list for rock and gem > > >collectors > > >CC: John Joldersma > > >Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > > >Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:47:07 -0500 > > > > > > The current questions about the "powers" of crystals and rocks brings > > >back > > >memories of the years 1987-91 I spent in business selling at psychic > > fairs > > >and on the > > >Gem Faire circuit with a "healy feely" emphasis. > > > My knowledge of rocks and sources meshed well with a partner from the > > >"new > > >age". There are effects of rocks and crystals on people because I >learned > > >what > > >worked to sell the stuff. The effects are all based on the chart of > > chakra > > > positions. > > >The most reliable were kyanite wands from Brazil. Blue kyanite could >set > > >off the > > >pineal gland in a lot of women in particular. That is the third eye in > > the > > >forehead. > > >The other really reliable mineral was hexagonite from NY. A 4 ounce >chunk > > >would > > >relax the muscles in the whole arm of whoever held it. > > > I was always amazed that half of the take for the weekend would be > > >from 3 or so > > >baskets out of the 125+ I carried. Rose Quartz and Green Aventurine >were > > >always > > >number 1 and 2. > > > Now it would be hard to find a more non new age person than me. This > > >was not > > >about belief it was about money. I had lost any interest in anything > > >supernatural > > >by the age of 12. I do believe in the human mine though I have seen so > > few > > >who > > >use theirs. A lifetime of learning is one thing, a lifetime of holding >to > > >irrational > > >belief is another. I am in horror of much of what I learned on the new > > age > > >circuit as > > >I am of much of the politically motivated religiosity currently passing > > for > > >religion. > > > I wish there was a demand in learning how to examine belief. I could > > >help with > > >that. I wish I could remember who said "Unexamined beliefs are not >worth > > >having". > > > I once sat in on a "Channel Panel" at the Whole Life Expo at Oakland > > >CC in 1998. > > >There were 5 people on the panel. They all claimed to channel spirits. >It > > >got so > > >wild, they were phasing in and out of channeling, sometime they were > > >themselves > > >and sometimes they were in a "trance". Entirely laughable, but then the > > >first time > > >I saw Benny Hind I thought it was a Saturday Night Live sketch. > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > >Subscription Services: > > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 5 18:08:13 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 5 18:05:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Selenite Sand vs Hadiwipes References: <003301c5e232$85c43e00$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <20051105204506.60209.qmail@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <436D64EA.14BE@Tomaszewski.net> It looks like sand included in selenite. Sorta like the hourglass selenite from Willow Creek, Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada. Kreigh J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Isn't that a bit on the big side to be sand? White Sands National Monument > is covered in Selenite Sand, which looks and acts like sand. I have a bag of > it around here which we collected outside the park. > BK > > On 11/5/05, Jim Daly wrote: > > > > Can't tell to much from the picture, but I would > > suspect that the green is mold of some sort. It would > > fit from the cloth rotting away. > > Jim Daly > > > > > Today, I decided to move the cabinet. I open the > > > drawer to find the cloth partially disintegrated, > > > and the selenite sand has green spot throughout > > > areas of it. I tried blowing on it, and the green > > > does not seem to budge. > > > > > > I was exasperated and tired from the work that I > > > did, so just closed up the drawer, and thought I'd > > > submit this info to the list and see if anyone might > > > have any advice for me before I try and see if I can > > > do anything to clean or repair the specimen. > > > > > > -Ron > > > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Nov 5 18:07:36 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Nov 5 18:07:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sorcerer In-Reply-To: <013901c5e1aa$7c97f2f0$f91571ce@marilyn> Message-ID: Since I first saw this heretical practice in the field I have suspected electromagnetic fields. I have found lots of stuff with bent metai rods, especially copper. Mostly buried utilities. Unfortunately I have not developed any ability to tell what has been located until it is actually dug out and exposed. Nor have I been successful with botanical diving rods. No experience locating minerals or fossils with this method so far. I have power, water, telephone, gas, TV cable, and even an old satellite dish conduit, buried in my yard. And almost everyone who tries the copper rods (actually #6 bare wire) successfully locates every line in each place it is crossed! Even the abandoned lines! I can also attest to relief of arthritis pain with low stength magnets applied topically overnight. Go figure... Glenn From: "Steve & Marilyn" <smtravis@plateautel.net> ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sat Nov 5 18:34:47 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Sat Nov 5 18:36:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals References: <200511051757.jA5HvHvv007850@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <004001c5e275$493c0b50$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <00fe01c5e27a$aa2adb30$6401a8c0@maingear> I would like to know what equipment is out there that can be used to view and/or photograph tiny crytals of say less than 2 mm. I use a 30X loupe but the depth of field is so small that it makes it difficult to keep the entire crystal in focus. I would like to have a binocular view too. I have a digital camera with macro mode and some of those screw on magnifying filters but they are only good down to 5 or 6 mm. How do people take those great pics? By spending tons of money on fancy and expensive equipment? Paul From smtravis at plateautel.net Sat Nov 5 18:36:19 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sat Nov 5 18:36:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw References: <20051105020043.75012.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000901c5e1af$5b5439a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <001a01c5e27a$def96160$f91571ce@marilyn> There was a article on the internet I think it was called rebuilding bob's monster. It was a good article on rebuilding a 20"? saw. I think I printed it out but try quering on rebuilding a lapidary saw and see if it comes ur. I think it was last summer. I have rebuilt at least 3 HP saws they are straight forward and simple compared to a raytech or some others. ? contact me off list Keep on Rockin Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 7:19 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw >I have yet to see an old saw that had a manual. I doubt if a manual was > available, that it would be of much help since saws are pretty simple in > their setup and operation. Highland Park saws are usually quite durable > and > can be rehabilitated to be as good as new. If you search the archives at > Bob's Rock Shop and some of the other sites I am sure you can find quite a > bit of discussion on the care and feed and rehabing of used saws. If not, > just ask. There is plenty of people here and on other rockhounding sites > who > can answer your questons. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "June Young" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 6:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw > > >> I need a manual to see how to work it. When you say >> you purchase locally do you mean you go to a local >> rock shop or do you have someone machine a part for >> you? I will see if I can get info from Diamond >> Pacific. >> Thanks for the info. >> June >> >> --- Tim Fisher wrote: >> >> > What do you need to know about the saw? Many of us >> > have Highland Park >> > saws. I have the 14" as well. Diamond Pacific >> > _might_ have a >> > photocopy of the original manual available, but they >> > generally do not >> > "support" the saw brands that they purchased (i.e. >> > HP, Contempo, >> > Beacon Star, Frantom) except to repair gears, >> > vises, etc. Even then, >> > I find I can get parts cheaper locally or through >> > the net i.e. McMaster-Carr. >> > >> > At 10:28 AM 11/4/2005, you wrote: >> > >> > >I have been searching for information on the >> > Highland >> > >Park 14" saw. On Bob's Rock Shop, I see where many >> > >people have been also looking for information. Is >> > it >> > >no longer manufactured? I found no hits regarding >> > >Highland Park Saws on my on line search. I am >> > looking >> > >for a manual but any information would be greatly >> > >appreciated. >> > >Thanks >> > >June >> > >> > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >> > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. >> http://farechase.yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From smtravis at plateautel.net Sat Nov 5 19:05:33 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sat Nov 5 19:05:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] water witching (also... XRD) References: <110520051637.12497.436CDFDF0000ACAF000030D1216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <007201c5e27e$f439c2f0$f91571ce@marilyn> I would love to test it myself . However one persson can not set up and run a double blind test. I would be willing to travel to Denver, to have this tested. I am not the most experienced sorcerer around by any means but I sure "feel the pull" and would be gald to help out any way I can. All the best. Keep on rockin Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] water witching (also... XRD) > The USGS had a brochure on Water Dowsing, out of print as a paper hand-out > (it's dated 1968) but still accessible online as a pdf file; you can read > it at, > > http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/water_dowsing/index.html > > It is a nice balanced discussion of what dowsing claims to do, a quite > interesting background summary of the history of dowsing, some facts about > groundwater and where it exists, etc. One section of the brochure > concludes with, > > "...Numerous books and pamphlets have been written on the subject of water > dowsing. > Some of these publications report on scientifically controlled experiments > and > investigations. From these findings, the U.S.Geological Survey has > concluded that the > expense of further tests of water dowsing is not justified." > > and it does also refer to an older, detailed USGS report (should be > available at university or other large libraries that have good > collections of USGS reports), > > "The only comprehensive report on water dowsing published by the > U.S.Geological Survey is The Divining Rod, A History of Water Witching, by > A.J. Ellis, published as USGS Water-Supply Paper 416 in 1917 and reprinted > in 1957. This report contains detailed information and includes references > to several hundred papers on the use of the divining rod and related > subjects." > > > > I've had no personal experience with dowsing, and I've always been very > skeptical (and continue to be) about whether it could really work, but... > as many have said, I've certainly heard stories of people who swear > they've seen it work. One was my late colleague Dr. Eugene Foord, who had > his own story about watching someone locate buried water pipes with a > dowsing rod (I don't remember what kind), and I'm pretty sure that he said > he tried it himself and did indeed seem to feel a "pull" at the right > spot. His comment was... he was skeptical about how it could possibly > work, but had no explanation for why it "seemed" to. > > As you (Tim) said, a double blind experiment is what's really needed > (where neither the subject "doing" the dowsing, or the observer watching > him & recording the results, know where the "target" is actually located); > and my presumption is (as the USGS brochure implies) that any "scientific" > tests that have been done, either have not met these criteria, or, have > only yielded ambiguous results. > > (P.S., 'nother topic, someone had mentioned they'd seen a USGS online > summary about X-ray diffraction, here it is, it gives a good description > of how the technique works and is used:) > > http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/of01-041/ > > Pete Modreski > -------------- Original message from "Tim Jokela Jr." > : -------------- > > >> Sorry Steve, but dowsing has been thoroughly debunked. >> >> Don't take my word for it, test it yourself, in a thorough, scientific >> manner, eg. double blind test. >> >> Lord I hope this thread doesn't go wild. Next thing the crystal power >> types >> will be finding radioactive oil by telepathic dowsing, channelling the >> wisdom of ancient Albanian shoemakers, and aligning their chakras with >> the >> natural healing power of realgar. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >> Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >> The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com >> Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com >> > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From smtravis at plateautel.net Sat Nov 5 19:08:17 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sat Nov 5 19:08:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] young rockhounds (fwd) References: Message-ID: <008301c5e27f$5cd00db0$f91571ce@marilyn> I believe the Lapidary journal has a list of clubs online and contacts for those clubs. Keep on rockin Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Fox" To: "Rockhounds mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:10 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] young rockhounds (fwd) > Anyone have any advice they can share? I doubt that Angie is on the > rockhounds list, so please feel free to mail her back personally. > > a. > > -- > afox at panix dot com || http://www.panix.com/~afox > "Being intelligent is not a felony. But most societies evaluate it as > at least a misdemeanor" -- Robert Heinlein, 'Time Enough for Love' > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:04:24 -0500 > From: Angie > To: afox@drizzle.com > Subject: young rockhounds > > Dear Aaron, > > I am a 11 year old girl in Zionsville, Indiana and I am interested in > clubs in my area but I can't seem to find any. Any suggestions? Zionsville > is located just north of Indianapolis but we are moving to Bloomington, > Indiana in the spring. > > Thanks > > Emma Hopkins > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 5 19:49:37 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 5 19:46:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks, dowsing, and science References: Message-ID: <436D7CA3.18E@Tomaszewski.net> Lets look at this from another direction... We know that some birds navigate using a compass in their head. Research has shown many birds have special cells with magnetite crystals in them that give them this sense of direction. This is well documented science. We know that many animals can sense an impending earthquake. There is good evidence of ELF/ULF (radio) precursor signals before an earthquake occurs, as well as signals when an earthquake occurs. There is good evidence that piezoelectricity from rock under stress is the cause. Serious research is finally starting on this method of earthquake prediction. It has been 'fringe' science for a long time, sustained by amateurs, and is finally being accepted by the mainstream of science. Some people can 'hear' earthquakes. We know that there are cells in the ear of humans that have magnetite crystals in them. Water is conductive. Conductive substances alter magnetic fields. Some animals and people can sense magnetic fields. Dowsing might work because some people, at least subconciously, can detect changes in magnetic fields caused by the presence of water underground. The energy would be coming from the earth's magnetic field. It may be a long stretch to extend this to crystal healing and feeling vibrations, but if we are going to look at it scientifically we need to keep an open mind and look for explanations. I think most of the new age claims are pure BS and/or marketing (remember PT Barnum - there is a sucker born every minute), but the universe is still a very strange place. A lot of folk lore has turned out to have a well hidden grain of truth. We need to be very sceptical of new claims, but we must have an open mind until they are proven to be false. Failure in a test/trial is not failure unless we can explain why it can't work; a failed experiment just means we still don't understand the problem completely if we can't explain why it failed (and why it can't succeed). If we are going to look at this issue scientifically we need to keep an open mind until we can explain why it is not possible. A lack of proof is not disproof. Kreigh P.S., I have personally seen a dowser at work, and water was hit when the well was driven at the specified location. Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > I think you are confusing my statement "How is one to rule out, rule out > scientifically, ...." with an imperative to "disprove". My intent was to > convey that the scientific spirit is open-minded to the possibility of > undiscovered and perhaps even unsuspected phenomena, that with further work > may well become independently reproducable. Sorry if I was not clear enough. > > Yes definitely, one would like to see scientific experiments designed to > investigate these reports. To make that more probable though, will perhaps > require a less hostile attitude toward the subject. > > Where does the energy come from when we write these lines? Where does it > really come from? Since you know thermodynamics, you know that it begins > with boundaries, boundaries that specify the systems under consideration. > Specify different boundaries, and you specify different thermodynamic > systems. > > Are we to discount the possibility that there exists a thermodynamic > boundary, or set of coupled boundaries, that harbor a new, and > scientifically interesting, human-crystal-interaction phenomenon? > > >From: J Bryan Kramer > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > >Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 20:08:46 -0500 > > > >I think you misunderstand the nature of science. Science does not disprove > >anything, it accepts experimental results that are independantly > >reproducable. > > So people who believe in this 'hypothesis' need to design some > >experiments > >that demonstrate it. > > The one big block to any of these psychic effects are the Laws of > >Thermodynamics. The first question in my mind is always: where does the > >energy come from? > > Answer that and you'll get somewhere. > > BK > > > > On 11/5/05, Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll risk being ridiculed here, but lets consider this: > > > > > > Before us are two separated black boxes, A and B. Both contain within > >them > > > resonant circuits. Box A is resonant to frequency Fa, while box B is > > > resonant to frequency Fb. The nature of the wave phenomenon is > >immaterial > > > to > > > this example. > > > > > > A source of waves, vibrating at Fb, propagates its wave energy across > >the > > > two black boxes. Box B's resonant circuit is significantly affected, but > > > Box > > > A's is not significantly affected. > > > > > > Let Box B be a human being who feels something definite from interaction > > > with certain crystals. Let Box A be a human being who does not. Let the > > > aforementioned vibration source be a crystal that, to the satisfaction > >of > > > B, > > > according to B's criteria, causes or at least relays effects upon B. > > > > > > It is going to be extremely difficult to rule out, scientifically, that > >B > > > is > > > sensitive to something real and worthy of investigation by somebody in > >the > > > scientific world. For example, the arguement that if B's favorite > >crystal > > > is > > > surreptitiously, in a closed bag, brought near B, and B does not exhibit > > > any > > > signs of a reaction, does not work. It does not work because the nature > >of > > > B's resonance may be such that visual contact with the crystal is first > > > necessary before the effects that B feels become noticable. > > > > > > Certainly the beauty of crystals affect people. How is one to rule out, > > > rule > > > out scientifically, that certain people, even if only very few, are > > > affected > > > in ways even more subtle than emotional reaction to beauty? > > > > > > Berj / KI3U > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: John Joldersma > > > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > >collectors" > > > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com": A mailing list for rock and gem > > > >collectors > > > >CC: John Joldersma > > > >Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > > > >Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:47:07 -0500 > > > > > > > > The current questions about the "powers" of crystals and rocks brings > > > >back > > > >memories of the years 1987-91 I spent in business selling at psychic > > > fairs > > > >and on the > > > >Gem Faire circuit with a "healy feely" emphasis. > > > > My knowledge of rocks and sources meshed well with a partner from the > > > >"new > > > >age". There are effects of rocks and crystals on people because I > >learned > > > >what > > > >worked to sell the stuff. The effects are all based on the chart of > > > chakra > > > > positions. > > > >The most reliable were kyanite wands from Brazil. Blue kyanite could > >set > > > >off the > > > >pineal gland in a lot of women in particular. That is the third eye in > > > the > > > >forehead. > > > >The other really reliable mineral was hexagonite from NY. A 4 ounce > >chunk > > > >would > > > >relax the muscles in the whole arm of whoever held it. > > > > I was always amazed that half of the take for the weekend would be > > > >from 3 or so > > > >baskets out of the 125+ I carried. Rose Quartz and Green Aventurine > >were > > > >always > > > >number 1 and 2. > > > > Now it would be hard to find a more non new age person than me. This > > > >was not > > > >about belief it was about money. I had lost any interest in anything > > > >supernatural > > > >by the age of 12. I do believe in the human mine though I have seen so > > > few > > > >who > > > >use theirs. A lifetime of learning is one thing, a lifetime of holding > >to > > > >irrational > > > >belief is another. I am in horror of much of what I learned on the new > > > age > > > >circuit as > > > >I am of much of the politically motivated religiosity currently passing > > > for > > > >religion. > > > > I wish there was a demand in learning how to examine belief. I could > > > >help with > > > >that. I wish I could remember who said "Unexamined beliefs are not > >worth > > > >having". > > > > I once sat in on a "Channel Panel" at the Whole Life Expo at Oakland > > > >CC in 1998. > > > >There were 5 people on the panel. They all claimed to channel spirits. > >It > > > >got so > > > >wild, they were phasing in and out of channeling, sometime they were > > > >themselves > > > >and sometimes they were in a "trance". Entirely laughable, but then the > > > >first time > > > >I saw Benny Hind I thought it was a Saturday Night Live sketch. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 5 20:02:29 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 5 19:59:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals References: <200511051757.jA5HvHvv007850@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <004001c5e275$493c0b50$6901a8c0@rock3> <00fe01c5e27a$aa2adb30$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <436D7FA6.78E8@Tomaszewski.net> Paul, One trick is to use enough light that you can use a high f-stop that gives a greater depth of field. Kreigh Paul wrote: > > I would like to know what equipment is out there that can be used to view > and/or photograph tiny crytals of say less than 2 mm. I use a 30X loupe but > the depth of field is so small that it makes it difficult to keep the entire > crystal in focus. I would like to have a binocular view too. I have a > digital camera with macro mode and some of those screw on magnifying filters > but they are only good down to 5 or 6 mm. How do people take those great > pics? By spending tons of money on fancy and expensive equipment? > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From ki3u at hotmail.com Sat Nov 5 20:13:30 2005 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Sat Nov 5 20:13:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks, dowsing, and science In-Reply-To: <436D7CA3.18E@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Concerning dowsing and solid minerals, I have this to report. Back in the mid 1990's a good friend of mine became interested in dowsing. He had a pair of simple steel rods. I had read that some dowsers seek minerals rather than water, and suggested to my friend that he see if he could find gold. We affixed gold-eyed ordinary sewing needles to the ends of his rods. Then I would hide some gold, and he would try to find it. I realized that I might possibly be somehow giving him clues to where I had hidden the gold, so for what it was worth, we tried to make the experiments more strict, but we did not carry it to double-blind extremes - this was mostly interesting fun for us. He had been batting 100%, indoors and outdoors. Finally we decided that I would hide a piece of gold in my apartment when he was not around, and I would leave when he was searching for it. When I came back he had found the piece I had hidden. But he had also picked up a very strong reaction from the rods at a door that I had blocked years earlier by a large table. The door led to an unused staircase to nowhere (a staircase that had been made obsolete decades before). I had no idea why he would get a reaction from his rods there, but we got into the old place, and found only some stuff I had stored in there six years earlier. So we looked through my stuff, and I was amazed when we found a piece of antique gold-plated porcelain that I had completely forgotten about. At this point I tried to interest my friend in a rigorous set of experiments to check carefully his apparent talent for finding gold. But he had exactly the opposite reaction - finding the gilt porcelain unnerved him, and he put away the rods and never touched them again. My impression was that he believed he had stumbled onto a power that might have overwhelming consequences. >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks, dowsing, and science >Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 22:49:37 -0500 > >Lets look at this from another direction... > >We know that some birds navigate using a compass in their head. Research >has shown many birds have special cells with magnetite crystals in them >that give them this sense of direction. This is well documented science. > >We know that many animals can sense an impending earthquake. There is >good evidence of ELF/ULF (radio) precursor signals before an earthquake >occurs, as well as signals when an earthquake occurs. There is good >evidence that piezoelectricity from rock under stress is the cause. >Serious research is finally starting on this method of earthquake >prediction. It has been 'fringe' science for a long time, sustained by >amateurs, and is finally being accepted by the mainstream of science. > >Some people can 'hear' earthquakes. We know that there are cells in the >ear of humans that have magnetite crystals in them. > >Water is conductive. Conductive substances alter magnetic fields. Some >animals and people can sense magnetic fields. > >Dowsing might work because some people, at least subconciously, can >detect changes in magnetic fields caused by the presence of water >underground. > >The energy would be coming from the earth's magnetic field. > >It may be a long stretch to extend this to crystal healing and feeling >vibrations, but if we are going to look at it scientifically we need to >keep an open mind and look for explanations. > >I think most of the new age claims are pure BS and/or marketing >(remember PT Barnum - there is a sucker born every minute), but the >universe is still a very strange place. A lot of folk lore has turned >out to have a well hidden grain of truth. > >We need to be very sceptical of new claims, but we must have an open >mind until they are proven to be false. Failure in a test/trial is not >failure unless we can explain why it can't work; a failed experiment >just means we still don't understand the problem completely if we can't >explain why it failed (and why it can't succeed). > >If we are going to look at this issue scientifically we need to keep an >open mind until we can explain why it is not possible. A lack of proof >is not disproof. > >Kreigh > >P.S., I have personally seen a dowser at work, and water was hit when >the well was driven at the specified location. > > > > >Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > I think you are confusing my statement "How is one to rule out, rule out > > scientifically, ...." with an imperative to "disprove". My intent was to > > convey that the scientific spirit is open-minded to the possibility of > > undiscovered and perhaps even unsuspected phenomena, that with further >work > > may well become independently reproducable. Sorry if I was not clear >enough. > > > > Yes definitely, one would like to see scientific experiments designed to > > investigate these reports. To make that more probable though, will >perhaps > > require a less hostile attitude toward the subject. > > > > Where does the energy come from when we write these lines? Where does it > > really come from? Since you know thermodynamics, you know that it begins > > with boundaries, boundaries that specify the systems under >consideration. > > Specify different boundaries, and you specify different thermodynamic > > systems. > > > > Are we to discount the possibility that there exists a thermodynamic > > boundary, or set of coupled boundaries, that harbor a new, and > > scientifically interesting, human-crystal-interaction phenomenon? > > > > >From: J Bryan Kramer > > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > >collectors" > > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > >collectors" > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > > >Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 20:08:46 -0500 > > > > > >I think you misunderstand the nature of science. Science does not >disprove > > >anything, it accepts experimental results that are independantly > > >reproducable. > > > So people who believe in this 'hypothesis' need to design some > > >experiments > > >that demonstrate it. > > > The one big block to any of these psychic effects are the Laws of > > >Thermodynamics. The first question in my mind is always: where does the > > >energy come from? > > > Answer that and you'll get somewhere. > > > BK > > > > > > On 11/5/05, Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll risk being ridiculed here, but lets consider this: > > > > > > > > Before us are two separated black boxes, A and B. Both contain >within > > >them > > > > resonant circuits. Box A is resonant to frequency Fa, while box B is > > > > resonant to frequency Fb. The nature of the wave phenomenon is > > >immaterial > > > > to > > > > this example. > > > > > > > > A source of waves, vibrating at Fb, propagates its wave energy >across > > >the > > > > two black boxes. Box B's resonant circuit is significantly affected, >but > > > > Box > > > > A's is not significantly affected. > > > > > > > > Let Box B be a human being who feels something definite from >interaction > > > > with certain crystals. Let Box A be a human being who does not. Let >the > > > > aforementioned vibration source be a crystal that, to the >satisfaction > > >of > > > > B, > > > > according to B's criteria, causes or at least relays effects upon B. > > > > > > > > It is going to be extremely difficult to rule out, scientifically, >that > > >B > > > > is > > > > sensitive to something real and worthy of investigation by somebody >in > > >the > > > > scientific world. For example, the arguement that if B's favorite > > >crystal > > > > is > > > > surreptitiously, in a closed bag, brought near B, and B does not >exhibit > > > > any > > > > signs of a reaction, does not work. It does not work because the >nature > > >of > > > > B's resonance may be such that visual contact with the crystal is >first > > > > necessary before the effects that B feels become noticable. > > > > > > > > Certainly the beauty of crystals affect people. How is one to rule >out, > > > > rule > > > > out scientifically, that certain people, even if only very few, are > > > > affected > > > > in ways even more subtle than emotional reaction to beauty? > > > > > > > > Berj / KI3U > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: John Joldersma > > > > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > > >collectors" > > > > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com": A mailing list for rock and gem > > > > >collectors > > > > >CC: John Joldersma > > > > >Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > > > > >Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:47:07 -0500 > > > > > > > > > > The current questions about the "powers" of crystals and rocks >brings > > > > >back > > > > >memories of the years 1987-91 I spent in business selling at >psychic > > > > fairs > > > > >and on the > > > > >Gem Faire circuit with a "healy feely" emphasis. > > > > > My knowledge of rocks and sources meshed well with a partner from >the > > > > >"new > > > > >age". There are effects of rocks and crystals on people because I > > >learned > > > > >what > > > > >worked to sell the stuff. The effects are all based on the chart of > > > > chakra > > > > > positions. > > > > >The most reliable were kyanite wands from Brazil. Blue kyanite >could > > >set > > > > >off the > > > > >pineal gland in a lot of women in particular. That is the third eye >in > > > > the > > > > >forehead. > > > > >The other really reliable mineral was hexagonite from NY. A 4 ounce > > >chunk > > > > >would > > > > >relax the muscles in the whole arm of whoever held it. > > > > > I was always amazed that half of the take for the weekend would be > > > > >from 3 or so > > > > >baskets out of the 125+ I carried. Rose Quartz and Green Aventurine > > >were > > > > >always > > > > >number 1 and 2. > > > > > Now it would be hard to find a more non new age person than me. >This > > > > >was not > > > > >about belief it was about money. I had lost any interest in >anything > > > > >supernatural > > > > >by the age of 12. I do believe in the human mine though I have seen >so > > > > few > > > > >who > > > > >use theirs. A lifetime of learning is one thing, a lifetime of >holding > > >to > > > > >irrational > > > > >belief is another. I am in horror of much of what I learned on the >new > > > > age > > > > >circuit as > > > > >I am of much of the politically motivated religiosity currently >passing > > > > for > > > > >religion. > > > > > I wish there was a demand in learning how to examine belief. I >could > > > > >help with > > > > >that. I wish I could remember who said "Unexamined beliefs are not > > >worth > > > > >having". > > > > > I once sat in on a "Channel Panel" at the Whole Life Expo at >Oakland > > > > >CC in 1998. > > > > >There were 5 people on the panel. They all claimed to channel >spirits. > > >It > > > > >got so > > > > >wild, they were phasing in and out of channeling, sometime they >were > > > > >themselves > > > > >and sometimes they were in a "trance". Entirely laughable, but then >the > > > > >first time > > > > >I saw Benny Hind I thought it was a Saturday Night Live sketch. >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Nov 5 20:14:49 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Nov 5 20:14:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals In-Reply-To: <00fe01c5e27a$aa2adb30$6401a8c0@maingear> References: <200511051757.jA5HvHvv007850@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <004001c5e275$493c0b50$6901a8c0@rock3> <00fe01c5e27a$aa2adb30$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <436D8339.7010800@verizon.net> Paul wrote: > I would like to know what equipment is out there that can be used to > view and/or photograph tiny crytals of say less than 2 mm. . . . How do > people take those great pics? By spending tons of money on fancy and > expensive equipment? Paul, In general, yes, but for the lower-level equipment it's not as much money as you think. First, let me say there is always eBay and LabX for used equipment, and some folks have the skills to make their own equipment. Many details can be found in "Photographing Minerals, Fossils, and Lapidary Materials,' by the legendary Jeff Scovill, ISBN 0-945005-21-0. If you have what I tend to call a "real" camera, i.e., a Nikon, Pentax, Leica, etc. SLR or large format film camera, then you can usually buy a reversing ring that allows you to use your standard lenses as macro lenses. The depth of field is not good and the magnification is limited. You also lose autofocus and thru-the-lens metering because your couplers are facing the wrong way. Same limits with screw-on macros, as you have found. The next step is to buy dedicated macro lenses, which are expensive and may or may not be available for your camera. The depth of field is better, but there are limits to the magnification. The addition of bellows extensions adds some magnification, and the noted photomicrographer Dan Behnke piggybacks several bellows together. I would imagine these features might also be available for the higher end digital SLRs with interchangable full-feature lenses, i.e., those with quality glass and variable f-stops; however you won't be able to do any of the preceding things with a digital point-and-shoot. Finally, there is the option of a stereomicroscope. Even then, you have a choice of a standard scope, or one with an iris diaphragm built into the optical path so you can have variable f-stops. Meiji makes a very nice model of scope that has an iris and a photo tube; it is relatively new, and the price is reasonable. I think it's the EMZ-13? I wish it had been available when I bought my Meiji RZ, which has a iris but is a larger and more unwieldy beast. Putting aside the idea that you might get lucky and find some nice used equipment, it is true that you will get the magnification and depth of field you pay for. Please let me know if you have any questions. If you're in the market for a stereo scope, I'm sure several of us can provide some detailed advice. Good luck, Don From johnjold at comcast.net Sat Nov 5 20:38:27 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Sat Nov 5 20:39:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks Message-ID: <3ace922940323654a589ea5e71992a73@comcast.net> Jeanette: Yes it was a slip, Freudian or not. I had proofed it but found the error later, I hoped the context would get me by. Maybe I should use my mind as well. Nate: Yes it was a funny scene but like my Grandfather said more funny strange than funny haha. I can remember one guy in flowing white robes who grabbed one of my Herkimers and told me, "These crystals contain great knowledge and the knowledge is right here!" He was pointing to a veil in the crystal. The big name was Michael, who supposedly had channeled a book about what each stones use was. He was so popular that I labeled the baskets with his usages. I even kept a copy for them to use on the table. It isn't hard to get along when you tell people what they want to hear. I would hand them a dixie cup as a "shopping cart" and turn them loose on the table. I always made a point of looking at them for a few seconds as they were paying me and then added a couple of stones to the bag saying as mysteriously as I could, "This is for you." They often would ask why I gave them that particular stone. I would just point to the book. When done, they usually would ask, how did I know? Well I didn't know except that Michael like other lightweight metaphysical stuff like Nostradamas is written to be open to wide interpretation. I had to be right because they wanted me to be right. John Edwards has a TV show based on the same method. I would have to confess to being far over the border towards exploitation rather than humor although I was often beside myself with amusement. The crystal power scene today is much diminished with the heyday being in the late 80's. From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sat Nov 5 23:28:19 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sat Nov 5 23:28:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: Message-ID: <018a01c5e2a3$a96396f0$6402a8c0@remains> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > Maybe to keep Michael happy any post that even hints at metaphysics should > have a MP in the subject line, then he could just delete it and not have > to > hear the word chakra again. hmmmm........nope. that won't work.....keep tryin!! :-) Michael From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sun Nov 6 02:46:28 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 6 02:46:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks Message-ID: <25f.4dbb2a.309f3904@aol.com> sorry..I wouldn't waste my time trying to appease a narrow mind....:-) Chakra Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 6 03:17:29 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sun Nov 6 03:17:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: Message-ID: <002f01c5e2c3$ad5f9630$78f1edc1@mpc1> > Yes definitely, one would like to see scientific experiments designed to > investigate these reports. Trouble is you can prove or disprove it all you like. People will still believe what they want to believe. Dowsing, UFOs, homeopathic medicine ... Mick From diente at prismnet.com Sun Nov 6 05:01:26 2005 From: diente at prismnet.com (diente@prismnet.com) Date: Sun Nov 6 05:01:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals In-Reply-To: <00fe01c5e27a$aa2adb30$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <436DAA46.13019.166996A1@localhost> Check out www.mindat.org There is a whole section on photographing minerals, with detailed how-to's There was also an article in the Mineralogical Record recently that addressed depth of field, and how to get more of the tiny crystals in focus. It involved a multi-focus technique, where one would take multiple photos with slighlty altered focus. Then one would feed photos into a software program that would "stitch" them together, creating one photo with much greater depth of field. Paul Bordovsky Austin, TX > I would like to know what equipment is out there that can be used to > view and/or photograph tiny crytals of say less than 2 mm. I use a > 30X loupe but the depth of field is so small that it makes it > difficult to keep the entire crystal in focus. I would like to have a > binocular view too. I have a digital camera with macro mode and some > of those screw on magnifying filters but they are only good down to 5 > or 6 mm. How do people take those great pics? By spending tons of > money on fancy and expensive equipment? > > Paul > From mike at colellaphoto.com Sun Nov 6 06:00:34 2005 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Sun Nov 6 06:00:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals In-Reply-To: <00fe01c5e27a$aa2adb30$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466> Just finished testing a rather fancy & Expensive lens for that very purpose. It was a Canon 65mm Macro 2.8 with a mag of 5:1. That's right it enlarges 5x's life size. I used it on a Digital 20D and was amazed with it's results. Finer than my Stereoscope, must be close to object and 'Rock' steady, mirror lock-up is a must. I was shooting sand and the results wee beautiful. And since it has normal iris like all lenses, stopping down to f-8 (which tested to be the sharpest aperture) gave me reasonable depth-of-field, enough to have a whole grain in focus. Something I have not been able to do in my Scope. Lens costs $850. If I get a chance I will post some shots, or contact me off list. Mike Michael J. Colella Colella Photography 2806 Jennings Rd. Kensington, MD 20895 Studio: 301-942-2853 Cell:301-520-9195 Web: http://colellaphoto.com E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Paul Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:35 PM To: Rock Currier; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals I would like to know what equipment is out there that can be used to view and/or photograph tiny crytals of say less than 2 mm. I use a 30X loupe but the depth of field is so small that it makes it difficult to keep the entire crystal in focus. I would like to have a binocular view too. I have a digital camera with macro mode and some of those screw on magnifying filters but they are only good down to 5 or 6 mm. How do people take those great pics? By spending tons of money on fancy and expensive equipment? Paul _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Nov 6 06:49:26 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Nov 6 06:49:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: <25f.4dbb2a.309f3904@aol.com> Message-ID: <019f01c5e2e1$492b7170$6402a8c0@remains> not narrow minded....just smart enough to know snake-oil salesmen when I see them...... Michael PS- I hear elixirs made of realgar and autunite are good for your chakra......why not try one? Add just a little dash of cinnabar for flavour!!! :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 3:46 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > sorry..I wouldn't waste my time trying to appease a narrow mind....:-) > > Chakra Jeff > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Nov 6 07:13:59 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Nov 6 07:13:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals References: <200511051757.jA5HvHvv007850@bubbleator.drizzle.com><004001c5e275$493c0b50$6901a8c0@rock3> <00fe01c5e27a$aa2adb30$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <009401c5e2e4$b6b456a0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I use a Meiji EMZ TR stereo microscope and a Canon S-50. I just zoom out the lens and hold it in front of the eyepiece upside down (so the flash illumimates the rock, not the top of the microscope). I can shoot from 10x to 45x and if I screw up, do it again quickly. I crop and sharpen images with Paintshop Pro. I am not trying to shoot the world's best images nor enter any photo contests. I've been able to photograph a lot of specimens fairly quickly. It is a winter project when it is too cold to collect. I have made some discoveries in specimens I collected years ago. For example, spherical calcite (Hastie's quarry) which I didn't notice in 1983 when I picked up a chunk of fluorite, selenite needles I thought were celestine (Annabel Lee mine mine dump), hemimorphite I thought were gypsum (Minerva No. 1 mine dump). My primary rationale for this madness is to document specimens in my collection and share them with the world through mindat (I have images of 834 specimens uploaded, though not all are through a scope). If you want to see how my "quick and dirty" images look, go to "view user galleries" on mindat and look me up (Alan Goldstein). Oh, and my scope is one that I before from where I work. (It is only used for part of the year in fossil labs.) Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: "Rock Currier" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:34 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals >I would like to know what equipment is out there that can be used to view >and/or photograph tiny crytals of say less than 2 mm. I use a 30X loupe >but the depth of field is so small that it makes it difficult to keep the >entire crystal in focus. I would like to have a binocular view too. I >have a digital camera with macro mode and some of those screw on magnifying >filters but they are only good down to 5 or 6 mm. How do people take those >great pics? By spending tons of money on fancy and expensive equipment? > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sun Nov 6 07:14:35 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 6 07:14:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks Message-ID: <1f8.163e7e7c.309f77db@aol.com> snake oil maybe, but I have seen and felt enough to know there is something there. Try reading Kreig's post about the birds, etc. Maybe that might broaden your narrow mind a little. "We know that many animals can sense an impending earthquake. There is good evidence of ELF/ULF (radio) precursor signals before an earthquake occurs, as well as signals when an earthquake occurs. There is good evidence that piezoelectricity from rock under stress is the cause. Serious research is finally starting on this method of earthquake prediction. It has been 'fringe' science for a long time, sustained by amateurs, and is finally being accepted by the mainstream of science." Chakra Jeff PS..thanks for the cocktail recipe, mix for two and we can toast each other --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Nov 6 07:16:41 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Nov 6 07:16:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] young rockhounds (fwd) References: Message-ID: <009b01c5e2e5$17c45c60$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Actually I suspect "Angie" is the mom and "Emma" is the girl. (If you look at the e-mail, it should be apparent.) Just an observation. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Fox" To: "Rockhounds mailing list" Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 12:10 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] young rockhounds (fwd) > Anyone have any advice they can share? I doubt that Angie is on the > rockhounds list, so please feel free to mail her back personally. > > a. > > -- > afox at panix dot com || http://www.panix.com/~afox > "Being intelligent is not a felony. But most societies evaluate it as > at least a misdemeanor" -- Robert Heinlein, 'Time Enough for Love' > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:04:24 -0500 > From: Angie > To: afox@drizzle.com > Subject: young rockhounds > > Dear Aaron, > > I am a 11 year old girl in Zionsville, Indiana and I am interested in > clubs in my area but I can't seem to find any. Any suggestions? Zionsville > is located just north of Indianapolis but we are moving to Bloomington, > Indiana in the spring. > > Thanks > > Emma Hopkins > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Nov 6 07:23:14 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Nov 6 07:23:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] experiential credit (mineralogy classes) References: <20051105063900.40080.qmail@web60815.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00ab01c5e2e6$01b71ba0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Many new rockhounds interested in mineralogy and crystallography my be surprised at how much a univeristy-level class resembles one on math, physics or chemistry rather than minerals. Experienced folks know better. I suffer from having to take a mineralogy class from a paleontologist, because while I was working on my undergraduate degree, we were between minerlaogy profs. On the otherhand, hearing about the prof who came in to teach it, I probably would have been turned off by it. (Even through the prof is a real nice guy.) Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "tango juli" To: Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 1:38 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] experiential credit > I was surprised in the rockhounds survey a few months ago at how many > folks who responded wanted to take courses in mineralogy, crystallography, > etc. I knwo there are a lot out there on the list without the formal > credentials whose knowledge and teaching skill rival that of any lettered > faculty. Such is the value of experiential credit. > > > > Anyway, had to chime in. > > Tangojuli From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 6 07:31:32 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Nov 6 07:31:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals In-Reply-To: <436D8339.7010800@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20051106153132.47351.qmail@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Don has covered most of the methods that are out there. I use a digital camera that slips over the eyepiece of my scope, and plugs in to a USB port on my computer. It's the Kodak MDS-100, no longer available or supported by Kodak. It isn't the best system around, but it was cheap, and does decent work. I got it from a close-out type website a few years ago for about $ 100. When I bought a laptop earlier this year I had hoped to use it with that, but it won't work with any operating system higher than Windows 98SE. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales --- DonH wrote: > Paul wrote: > > I would like to know what equipment is out there > that can be used to > > view and/or photograph tiny crytals of say less > than 2 mm. . . . How do > > people take those great pics? By spending tons of > money on fancy and > > expensive equipment? > > > Paul, > > In general, yes, but for the lower-level equipment > it's not as much > money as you think. First, let me say there is > always eBay and LabX for > used equipment, and some folks have the skills to > make their own > equipment. Many details can be found in > "Photographing Minerals, > Fossils, and Lapidary Materials,' by the legendary > Jeff Scovill, ISBN > 0-945005-21-0. > > If you have what I tend to call a "real" camera, > i.e., a Nikon, Pentax, > Leica, etc. SLR or large format film camera, then > you can usually buy a > reversing ring that allows you to use your standard > lenses as macro > lenses. The depth of field is not good and the > magnification is > limited. You also lose autofocus and thru-the-lens > metering because > your couplers are facing the wrong way. Same limits > with screw-on > macros, as you have found. The next step is to buy > dedicated macro > lenses, which are expensive and may or may not be > available for your > camera. The depth of field is better, but there are > limits to the > magnification. The addition of bellows extensions > adds some > magnification, and the noted photomicrographer Dan > Behnke piggybacks > several bellows together. I would imagine these > features might also be > available for the higher end digital SLRs with > interchangable > full-feature lenses, i.e., those with quality glass > and variable > f-stops; however you won't be able to do any of the > preceding things > with a digital point-and-shoot. > > Finally, there is the option of a stereomicroscope. > Even then, you have > a choice of a standard scope, or one with an iris > diaphragm built into > the optical path so you can have variable f-stops. > Meiji makes a very > nice model of scope that has an iris and a photo > tube; it is relatively > new, and the price is reasonable. I think it's the > EMZ-13? I wish it > had been available when I bought my Meiji RZ, which > has a iris but is a > larger and more unwieldy beast. > > Putting aside the idea that you might get lucky and > find some nice used > equipment, it is true that you will get the > magnification and depth of > field you pay for. > > Please let me know if you have any questions. If > you're in the market > for a stereo scope, I'm sure several of us can > provide some detailed advice. > > Good luck, > Don > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 6 07:45:02 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Nov 6 07:45:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Realgar & Orpiment In-Reply-To: <004001c5e275$493c0b50$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <20051106154502.58219.qmail@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have on my website www.sauktown.com a list of conditions that are harmful to various minerals. It's far from complete, but still quite lengthy. Any additions or corrections would also be quite welcome. It isn't my own work, but compiled from a number of sources, cited on the list. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales --- Rock Currier wrote: > Tim, > All minerlas are stable only under some > conditions. You get them too hot > and they turn into a gas (plasma), some at much > higher temperatures than > others. Some minerals are not very stable at STP > (standard > temperature/pressure-20 degrees centigrade at > sealevel) conditions. Realgar > can be stable for an indefinite time period > depending on how you store it. > The same is true of a raft > of other minerals like chalcopyrite, proustite, > borax, vanadinite, stibnite, > pyrrhotite, sturmanite etc etc. Often the minerals > them selves are pretty > stable, but the colors in them can change > considerably. This is true of > amethyst and some barites & fluorites etc. The > changes can be very slow but > if you comapre one that has been in a display case > for years with one that > has been kept in the dark, the change is often > shocking. > Rock __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Nov 6 07:47:00 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Nov 6 07:49:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: <1f8.163e7e7c.309f77db@aol.com> Message-ID: <01d701c5e2e9$633d8280$6402a8c0@remains> I have NO doubt whatsoever that crystals contain energy.....piezoelectricity, pyroelectricity...etc. I didn't read Kreig's post in its entirety. I started to read it, got as far as the birds and didn't bother because there is a scientific explanation for bird's navigation of magnetic fields (if that's what the post was about.), and it is not based on some wild metaphysical theory of the bird's chakras being properly aligned...if that's what the post was about. Allow me to elaborate.....I have no doubt that there exist many things in the world that science has yet to explain. Do the Chakras of the body exist? I have no proof that they don't? I keep an open mind, and think perhaps they do...and that thousands of years of Chinese medicine isn't out to lunch. What I do NOT agree with is the commercial aspect to these beliefs that has "magically" sprung up within the last 20 years. Having worked for friends of mine in their gallery selling overpriced crystals to people within this market, I can categorically state that 95% of my experience with these people and this market was simple profiteering. But, the market is the market...and if some fool is willing to pay $50 for a 1cm long danburite xl (and we ALL know how much that is really worth), then who am I to say that it isn't worth that..... I especially liked the store in the small interior town of B.C. that was selling the "Merlin's Stone"....a piece of green glass about 3" long for $650. Oh the power of it!!! The industry that has sprung up from these beliefs is criminal...and serves only to exploit the ignorant and gullible. These metaphysical books that come up listing all of the wonderful powers of these materials, in some cases books written by specific people with ties to specific companies who are the sole marketers of some of this material.....material they buy for $5.00 a pound and sell for $25 per gram. And if the rip-you-off aspect of it is not bad enough, some books even promote the use of toxic minerals in the use of elexirs. Obviously, you were smart enough to notice the heavy sarcasm in my suggestion of the elixir to you....yet unfortunately many people are not aware of the chemical makeup of what they are buying. What's worse, many of the sellers aren't either. I once saw a womn in one of these metaphysical stores allowing a womans child to hold and play with a realgar that the mother was going to buy!!! I also once refused to sell such minerals to someone who stated they were going to make an elixir out of it. Could small amounts of this had killed them? or even made them sick? I'm not sure, but I erred on the side of caution. Even after explaining the reasons for my refusal, I was sneered at and told she would buy it at another shop. Where is the responsibility of these fruit-loops who publish books with recipes of arsenic and lead? I have yet to meet anyone who is into the metaphysical properties of gems who does not suffer under the misconceptions created by this industry...designed only to sell their product. Tucson is no different....some of the freakshows I have met there....including the guy who, after being in a trance for 10 minutes, came out of it to tell me of his prediction of the upcoming discovery of a pure white form of lapis lazuli. He seemed a bit "mystified" when I explained to him the nature of the rock lapis lazuli...and that white lapis was simply calcite. yes...the healy feely market. Sorry, but 95% of it is a joke. and it's dangerous, and criminal, and it sickens me how it preys upon the ignorant. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > snake oil maybe, but I have seen and felt enough to know there is > something > there. Try reading Kreig's post about the birds, etc. Maybe that might > broaden > your narrow mind a little. > > "We know that many animals can sense an impending earthquake. There is > good evidence of ELF/ULF (radio) precursor signals before an earthquake > occurs, as well as signals when an earthquake occurs. There is good > evidence that piezoelectricity from rock under stress is the cause. > Serious research is finally starting on this method of earthquake > prediction. It has been 'fringe' science for a long time, sustained by > amateurs, and is finally being accepted by the mainstream of science." > > Chakra Jeff > > PS..thanks for the cocktail recipe, mix for two and we can toast each > other > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 6 07:55:49 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Nov 6 07:55:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Selenite Sand In-Reply-To: <003701c5e268$fb19dee0$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <20051106155549.72042.qmail@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > It also occurred to me that if the green spot on you > gypsum specimen is > organic in nature that a drop of gypsum on it might > bleach the color out > with little harm to the specimen. > > Rock Did you mean to say a drop of bleach? Jim Daly __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 6 08:05:03 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Nov 6 08:05:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks In-Reply-To: <1f8.163e7e7c.309f77db@aol.com> Message-ID: <20051106160503.38824.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Can we please drop this thread? It's the sort of thing that can quickly develop into a flame war. I won't comment on the subject because I was always taught to never discuss or argue religion or politics, and this sounds remarkably like religion to me. Jim Daly --- BNMJEFF@aol.com wrote: > snake oil maybe, but I have seen and felt enough to > know there is something > there. Try reading Kreig's post about the birds, > etc. Maybe that might broaden > your narrow mind a little. > > "We know that many animals can sense an impending > earthquake. There is > good evidence of ELF/ULF (radio) precursor signals > before an earthquake > occurs, as well as signals when an earthquake > occurs. There is good > evidence that piezoelectricity from rock under > stress is the cause. > Serious research is finally starting on this method > of earthquake > prediction. It has been 'fringe' science for a long > time, sustained by > amateurs, and is finally being accepted by the > mainstream of science." > > Chakra Jeff > > PS..thanks for the cocktail recipe, mix for two and > we can toast each other > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From Paintricks at aol.com Sun Nov 6 08:11:24 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 6 08:11:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks Message-ID: <253.585c59.309f852c@aol.com> In a message dated 11/6/2005 5:17:53 A.M. Central Standard Time, mick@mineralist.demon.co.uk writes: Trouble is you can prove or disprove it all you like. People will still believe what they want to believe. Dowsing, UFOs, homeopathic medicine ... Mick This is a tricky subject. But what do I know. What I do know is that there is a lot of power in belief. Even tho it varies greatly from person to person. Maybe if you get enough people thinking the same thing at the same time. That has power to heal. Kinda like prayer. Maybe rocks are just a tool to help focus that. Rocks are a neat tool anyway and they have been around a lot longer than us. Maybe it's like believing in ghosts. I personally have never seen one but I have to have a bit of an open mind about it. Rocks carry all types of energies. Before common medicine what else did people have to try and fix ailments of people they love? Last resort methods make people do unusual things and that leads to discovery. As long as rocks are involved. It's interesting to me. Your fellow rockhound. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From afox at panix.com Sun Nov 6 08:32:16 2005 From: afox at panix.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sun Nov 6 08:32:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Metaphysical Rocks In-Reply-To: <019f01c5e2e1$492b7170$6402a8c0@remains> References: <25f.4dbb2a.309f3904@aol.com> <019f01c5e2e1$492b7170$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: This thread is getting a bit too heated. Please stop the sniping and the personal attacks, or at least take them off-list to private email. No need to make this thread personal. Aaron Rockhounds Admin Team -- afox at panix dot com || http://www.panix.com/~afox "Being intelligent is not a felony. But most societies evaluate it as at least a misdemeanor" -- Robert Heinlein, 'Time Enough for Love' From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Nov 6 08:38:24 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Nov 6 08:38:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks In-Reply-To: <011b01c5e264$5dab46c0$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: Michael & list "prohibiting" is such an ugly word. I think that anyone who wants to know what secret powers lie hidden in crystals should in fact seek the answer in our beloved Rockhounds group. The answer IS here after all. "None" is the answer "but there is so much TRUE science we can introduce you to" should be the logical conclusion of that answer. Spreading fairy tales about crystal powers or healing mineral should, in my honest opinion, be firmly discouraged. So, believers should be helped but those who spread the false gospel should be smitten (with a thick science book) and chased out of this temple of knowledge ;-))) It 's quite similar to the daily life of most people who follow leaders and seek guidance, either spiritual or political... Opportunistic and unscrupulous leaders will take their followers where they WANT to be. Good and integer leaders will take them where they NEED to be. Getting where you NEED to be requires sacrifice and criticism but the result is knowledge and spiritual freedom. The main ingredient is wisdom. Getting where you WANT to be requires gullibility and a firm censorship to hide the truth from yourself and others. The result is a false sense of security and spiritual (even often physical) slavery. The main ingredient is faith, blind faith, in anybody or anything that promises you a new life, a better life, a healthier life, an afterlife... Unfortunately, people always seem to choose for the exotic, the colorful and the more exiting, the thrill of the great unknown.... that is why they watch soaps, believe that rocks can heal them or sit in dark chambers trying to read each other's minds. I would normally ignore stuff about "magical stones" or "healing crystals" but lately there have been some very upsetting issues on the news that relate to this "freedom to spread non-scientific theories". Followers of the path of faith tend to use force upon those that choose the path of wisdom. They do so because they fear their beliefs cannot withstand the scrutiny of a true FREE mind. That is why Giordano Bruno died a horrible death. If we allow faith in our daily decision-making, we open the gate to a new era of intellectual suppression. If you choose to teach your own children the concept of "intelligent design" rather than that of evolution, so be it. You have that right, unfortunately. But when politicians force it upon our children I fear that we are sliding back into the dark ages fast. It worries me, it angers me and I think that is the beginning of the end of freedom of speech and thought. These kind of things happen if you believe in things that are not true, so: out with magic and hooray for science! Axel The next big step for man is to set free his mind. Secularization of politics is the only way to world peace. -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Michael Schmidt Verzonden: zondag 6 november 2005 0:55 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks I think if the moderators want to creat a rule, they should create one prohibiting the discussion of the healing powers of crystals. Sure, EVERYTHING on this planet that is composed of matter has energy...why not leave it at that? There are plenty of heely-feely lists out there for these people to be on...let's please not turn this into one of those. If I never hear the word "chakra" again., I will be a happy man. Even those that are posted as examples of the ridiculousness of this "science" should I think be off-topic. Can we not ban this all-together? 98% of this market is complete bull****...designed only make crystals worth $7.00 per pond worth $7.00 per gram. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Berj N. Ensanian" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 1:18 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > > > I'll risk being ridiculed here, but lets consider this: > > Before us are two separated black boxes, A and B. Both contain within them > resonant circuits. Box A is resonant to frequency Fa, while box B is > resonant to frequency Fb. The nature of the wave phenomenon is immaterial > to this example. > > A source of waves, vibrating at Fb, propagates its wave energy across the > two black boxes. Box B's resonant circuit is significantly affected, but > Box A's is not significantly affected. > > Let Box B be a human being who feels something definite from interaction > with certain crystals. Let Box A be a human being who does not. Let the > aforementioned vibration source be a crystal that, to the satisfaction of > B, according to B's criteria, causes or at least relays effects upon B. > > It is going to be extremely difficult to rule out, scientifically, that B > is sensitive to something real and worthy of investigation by somebody in > the scientific world. For example, the arguement that if B's favorite > crystal is surreptitiously, in a closed bag, brought near B, and B does > not exhibit any signs of a reaction, does not work. It does not work > because the nature of B's resonance may be such that visual contact with > the crystal is first necessary before the effects that B feels become > noticable. > > Certainly the beauty of crystals affect people. How is one to rule out, > rule out scientifically, that certain people, even if only very few, are > affected in ways even more subtle than emotional reaction to beauty? > > Berj / KI3U > > > > >>From: John Joldersma >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com": A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors >>CC: John Joldersma >>Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks >>Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:47:07 -0500 >> >> The current questions about the "powers" of crystals and rocks brings >> back >>memories of the years 1987-91 I spent in business selling at psychic fairs >>and on the >>Gem Faire circuit with a "healy feely" emphasis. >> My knowledge of rocks and sources meshed well with a partner from >> the "new >>age". There are effects of rocks and crystals on people because I learned >>what >>worked to sell the stuff. The effects are all based on the chart of >>chakra positions. >>The most reliable were kyanite wands from Brazil. Blue kyanite could set >>off the >>pineal gland in a lot of women in particular. That is the third eye in >>the forehead. >>The other really reliable mineral was hexagonite from NY. A 4 ounce chunk >>would >>relax the muscles in the whole arm of whoever held it. >> I was always amazed that half of the take for the weekend would be >> from 3 or so >>baskets out of the 125+ I carried. Rose Quartz and Green Aventurine were >>always >>number 1 and 2. >> Now it would be hard to find a more non new age person than me. This >> was not >>about belief it was about money. I had lost any interest in anything >>supernatural >>by the age of 12. I do believe in the human mine though I have seen so >>few who >>use theirs. A lifetime of learning is one thing, a lifetime of holding to >>irrational >>belief is another. I am in horror of much of what I learned on the new >>age circuit as >>I am of much of the politically motivated religiosity currently passing >>for religion. >> I wish there was a demand in learning how to examine belief. I >> could help with >>that. I wish I could remember who said "Unexamined beliefs are not worth >>having". >> I once sat in on a "Channel Panel" at the Whole Life Expo at Oakland >> CC in 1998. >>There were 5 people on the panel. They all claimed to channel spirits. It >>got so >>wild, they were phasing in and out of channeling, sometime they were >>themselves >>and sometimes they were in a "trance". Entirely laughable, but then the >>first time >>I saw Benny Hind I thought it was a Saturday Night Live sketch. >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Nov 6 08:50:11 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Nov 6 08:50:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] water witching (also... XRD) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have seen a documentary about iris-readers recently. People who are licensed and all (believe it or not) to read the human iris and detect health problems. The investigators had a dozen of those quacks examine a young woman with acute and irreversible kidney failure who had to go to the hospital for dialysis twice a week. NONE of the LICENSED so-called specialists found any health problems. When the young woman specifically stated that she had some kidney problems and asked what she should do, the quacks suggested that she should drink lots of pure water and follow a health-diet. According to a real specialist these measure would have been lethal within a weak or less. If you can't prove it's there, it ain't there! Down with quacks, up with science (LOL) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J Bryan Kramer Verzonden: zondag 6 november 2005 1:48 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] water witching (also... XRD) The Amazing Randi has put up $1,000,000 for anyone who can prove that they can successfully dowse. THis is an increase above the $50,000 mentioned below. No winners yet: "The Man of a Thousand Tests, James "The Amazing" Randi, put 11 dowsers to the test for his then Fifty Thousand dollar psychic challenge. The water dowsing test involved ten identical pipes, one of which would have water flowing through it. Thus, chance would dictate a ten percent rate of success. Before the test began, Randi had them all dowse the surrounding area to assure that conditions were right for dowsing. Then, he inquired as to what they believed their rate of success would be. They all said about 80%. So, it was agreed that an 80% or higher rate of success would win the prize. The dowsers went to work. Later, they all traveled together to a local diner, the dowsers discussing how they would split up the sum between all of them. However, upon the tabulated results being announced at the diner, the faces of joy turned to disbelief. Their rate of success was a paltry 12%, not significantly different from chance. Randi folded up his check, thanked the challengers, and headed for home." http://www.geocities.com/skepdigest/Dowsing_in_Connecticut.html BJ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 6 08:51:20 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sun Nov 6 08:51:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466> Message-ID: <001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1> > been able to do in my Scope. Lens costs $850. A long time ago, when old-fashioned cine cameras were going out of style it was possible to buy 16mm cine camera lenses extremely cheaply. Short-focus versions were costing me about 10 quid or so (say 15-20 dollars). I had a friend with a lathe make me a mount that screwed into the filter screw on the front of the lens so I could mount it backwards on a bellows. I made a small lens hood out of black cardboard since the rear element of such lenses protrudes out of the back of the mount. This system allowed me to take publication-quality pictures of crystals 0.5 to 1mm across with relative ease, though depth of field was a limiting factor. (You can't just keep stopping the lens down as very small apertures make the image blurry all over.) Nowadays the depth of field problem is not so much of a limitation as it was: you can take several shots at different focuses on a digital camera and then stack the images one upon the other in PhotoShop and remove all the blurred bits leaving the entire crystal in focus. For complex specimens, composed of lots of needles for example, there's software available that does the mixing and matching automatically. Mick From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Nov 6 08:53:19 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Nov 6 08:53:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals In-Reply-To: <00fe01c5e27a$aa2adb30$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: Bellows and a good macro lense. Also: find a good light source... pref. halogen with fiber optic arms. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Paul Verzonden: zondag 6 november 2005 3:35 Aan: Rock Currier; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals I would like to know what equipment is out there that can be used to view and/or photograph tiny crytals of say less than 2 mm. I use a 30X loupe but the depth of field is so small that it makes it difficult to keep the entire crystal in focus. I would like to have a binocular view too. I have a digital camera with macro mode and some of those screw on magnifying filters but they are only good down to 5 or 6 mm. How do people take those great pics? By spending tons of money on fancy and expensive equipment? Paul _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Nov 6 08:57:30 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Nov 6 08:57:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals In-Reply-To: <436D7FA6.78E8@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Yes it does, but you loose resolution. Best performance of lenses is usually around F8 or F11. I usually try stay on below F8 if the specimen allows me. Leaving some parts of the background or matrix unsharp adds the power of reality to your photos. After all, your eyes do the same ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: zondag 6 november 2005 5:02 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals Paul, One trick is to use enough light that you can use a high f-stop that gives a greater depth of field. Kreigh Paul wrote: > > I would like to know what equipment is out there that can be used to view > and/or photograph tiny crytals of say less than 2 mm. I use a 30X loupe but > the depth of field is so small that it makes it difficult to keep the entire > crystal in focus. I would like to have a binocular view too. I have a > digital camera with macro mode and some of those screw on magnifying filters > but they are only good down to 5 or 6 mm. How do people take those great > pics? By spending tons of money on fancy and expensive equipment? > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Sun Nov 6 09:00:15 2005 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Sun Nov 6 09:00:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nevada rutilated quartz Message-ID: <20051106170015.3A7FAC612E@ws7-5.us4.outblaze.com> I have a friend who facets and is looking for this. I recall someone on the lists having it for sale, but can't remember the link. Any minds still functioning? David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." -- _______________________________________________ Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number. -Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Nov 6 09:01:57 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Nov 6 09:02:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: <20051106160503.38824.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01e401c5e2f3$cc0b4c70$6402a8c0@remains> EXACTLY my initial point. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > Can we please drop this thread? It's the sort of thing > that can quickly develop into a flame war. I won't > comment on the subject because I was always taught to > never discuss or argue religion or politics, and this > sounds remarkably like religion to me. > Jim Daly > > --- BNMJEFF@aol.com wrote: > >> snake oil maybe, but I have seen and felt enough to >> know there is something >> there. Try reading Kreig's post about the birds, >> etc. Maybe that might broaden >> your narrow mind a little. >> >> "We know that many animals can sense an impending >> earthquake. There is >> good evidence of ELF/ULF (radio) precursor signals >> before an earthquake >> occurs, as well as signals when an earthquake >> occurs. There is good >> evidence that piezoelectricity from rock under >> stress is the cause. >> Serious research is finally starting on this method >> of earthquake >> prediction. It has been 'fringe' science for a long >> time, sustained by >> amateurs, and is finally being accepted by the >> mainstream of science." >> >> Chakra Jeff >> >> PS..thanks for the cocktail recipe, mix for two and >> we can toast each other >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Nov 6 09:06:41 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Nov 6 09:06:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks In-Reply-To: <25f.4dbb2a.309f3904@aol.com> Message-ID: You need an open mind to see the beauty of science and all the wonders of the universe that it can explain. Some of these wonders are so far out that they are literally wilder than fantasy. People with narrow minds miss all that beauty but luckily for them, they don't know enough to really care about that. There are after all enough surrogates for science that will fit in even the narrowest mind ;-)))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens BNMJEFF@aol.com Verzonden: zondag 6 november 2005 11:46 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks sorry..I wouldn't waste my time trying to appease a narrow mind....:-) Chakra Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dguin at earthlink.net Sun Nov 6 09:28:34 2005 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Sun Nov 6 09:26:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <436E3D42.5020702@earthlink.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: >Michael & list > >"prohibiting" is such an ugly word. >I think that anyone who wants to know what secret powers lie hidden in >crystals should in fact seek the answer in our beloved Rockhounds group. The >answer IS here after all. >"None" is the answer "but there is so much TRUE science we can introduce you >to" should be the logical conclusion of that answer. > In my house, we cover both ends. I tell my wife that she is too "religious" and she tells me that I am just not "sensitive" enough. Yet we live together because we respect each other. When I get back from a day at the mine, I clean the day's finds and lay them out on a towel. Victoria gets first refusal on anything that I bring into the house. Sometimes she just looks at them. Sometimes she holds one between her hands with her eyes closed. She has a wonderful collection of stones on the credenza above her desk and she has never been out in the field. When she tells me that she needs a piece of bloodstone to help a sick friend, I get her a piece of bloodstone. When I explain the difference between green elbaite and rossmanite, she listens without glazing over. When I made the mistake of cleaning the iron staining off of her Orange River "healer", she ordered another one. When she pulls a polished wand of charoite out of the dish at a show to give to a friend, I take it off the inventory list. Is there magick in the stones? I wouldn't know. I'm not sensitive enough to feel it ;) Is the X-site vacant in the rossmanite? Victoria will never know. She doesn't have access to the equipment needed to "see" it. What we do know is that it is not worth fighting over. Peace, dave From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Nov 6 09:36:15 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Nov 6 09:37:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: <436E3D42.5020702@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <020f01c5e2f8$96fff210$6402a8c0@remains> that's great that you can co-exist as harmonius as that. so, for the sake of curiosity, how would you feel if she bought for $500 a mineral that you could go out and collect that was not worth more than $20??? Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Guin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > Axel Emmermann wrote: > >>Michael & list >> >>"prohibiting" is such an ugly word. >>I think that anyone who wants to know what secret powers lie hidden in >>crystals should in fact seek the answer in our beloved Rockhounds group. >>The >>answer IS here after all. >>"None" is the answer "but there is so much TRUE science we can introduce >>you >>to" should be the logical conclusion of that answer. >> > In my house, we cover both ends. I tell my wife that she is too > "religious" and she tells me that I am just not "sensitive" enough. Yet > we live together because we respect each other. When I get back from a > day at the mine, I clean the day's finds and lay them out on a towel. > Victoria gets first refusal on anything that I bring into the house. > Sometimes she just looks at them. Sometimes she holds one between her > hands with her eyes closed. She has a wonderful collection of stones on > the credenza above her desk and she has never been out in the field. When > she tells me that she needs a piece of bloodstone to help a sick friend, I > get her a piece of bloodstone. When I explain the difference between > green elbaite and rossmanite, she listens without glazing over. When I > made the mistake of cleaning the iron staining off of her Orange River > "healer", she ordered another one. When she pulls a polished wand of > charoite out of the dish at a show to give to a friend, I take it off the > inventory list. > > Is there magick in the stones? I wouldn't know. I'm not sensitive enough > to feel it ;) Is the X-site vacant in the rossmanite? Victoria will > never know. She doesn't have access to the equipment needed to "see" it. > What we do know is that it is not worth fighting over. > > Peace, > dave > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From johnjold at comcast.net Sun Nov 6 09:39:04 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Sun Nov 6 09:39:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks Message-ID: <46de097ffb4d391b0d6b6bf09183456e@comcast.net> I am shocked that Michael would be so generous in his estimate of 5% honesty in the metaphysical business. I sure never saw that much. But those people have been warping prices in the rock business for 30 years now. It's all based on emotions and is beyond rational analysis. The proper attitude? Let me lapse into a joke. There was an old time general store keeper in rural Georgia. He was quite pious and would quote the Bible with each and every purchase. The woman buying a loaf of bread would hear, "Man shall not live by bread alone." The woman with several small children would hear, "Suffer the little children to come unto me." One day an outlander came in and said, "I just bought the finest horse in the county and I need a horse blanket. Well the old-timer had three $12 horse blankets in stock which were pointed out. He picked up the first one and asked how much. When he heard $12 he rejected it as not nearly good enough for his horse. When asked about the second blanket he responded, "$29.95". Alas that was still not good enough. With the third one he quoted, "59.95". As he made change for the $100 bill presented in payment, the now smiling store keeper said, "You were a stranger and I took you in." If selling hope is not proper, what about the 50,000 or so worldwide religions, cults, sects or churches each prospering selling themselves as the "one way" People seem anxious to believe anything and the whackier the better. Where would the economy be if everyone went rational. Some of us with knowledge of rocks cashed in and some still are. Why did I get out? Well besides the bad economy, I had come to the conclusion that I had never met anyone worthwhile on the circuit including my ex-partner. In sales they have to want what you have. When they came in predisposed to add to their collection of power stones and asked, "What should I buy?" I could tell them just feel the stones the right ones will feel warm to you. Something always felt warm to them. When it was hot it was sweet. At my first psychic fair in Phoenix they crowded around all four sides of my table and all I did was cash out the line waiting and that lasted over 3 hours. From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Nov 6 09:59:09 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sun Nov 6 09:59:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: <436E3D42.5020702@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <008101c5e2fb$ca2b2120$f91571ce@marilyn> Horay Dave ! Your life with your wife is an excellent example of the way the list and life should be. All the best to All on the list. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Guin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:28 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > Axel Emmermann wrote: > >>Michael & list >> >>"prohibiting" is such an ugly word. >>I think that anyone who wants to know what secret powers lie hidden in >>crystals should in fact seek the answer in our beloved Rockhounds group. >>The >>answer IS here after all. >>"None" is the answer "but there is so much TRUE science we can introduce >>you >>to" should be the logical conclusion of that answer. >> > In my house, we cover both ends. I tell my wife that she is too > "religious" and she tells me that I am just not "sensitive" enough. Yet > we live together because we respect each other. When I get back from a > day at the mine, I clean the day's finds and lay them out on a towel. > Victoria gets first refusal on anything that I bring into the house. > Sometimes she just looks at them. Sometimes she holds one between her > hands with her eyes closed. She has a wonderful collection of stones on > the credenza above her desk and she has never been out in the field. When > she tells me that she needs a piece of bloodstone to help a sick friend, I > get her a piece of bloodstone. When I explain the difference between > green elbaite and rossmanite, she listens without glazing over. When I > made the mistake of cleaning the iron staining off of her Orange River > "healer", she ordered another one. When she pulls a polished wand of > charoite out of the dish at a show to give to a friend, I take it off the > inventory list. > > Is there magick in the stones? I wouldn't know. I'm not sensitive enough > to feel it ;) Is the X-site vacant in the rossmanite? Victoria will > never know. She doesn't have access to the equipment needed to "see" it. > What we do know is that it is not worth fighting over. > > Peace, > dave > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Nov 6 10:14:26 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Nov 6 09:59:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Selenite sand with a green spot References: <200511060204.jA6249uk018628@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <005201c5e2fd$ec78cc30$6901a8c0@rock3> Ron, A drop of gypsum? I must have had a drop too much to drink. To possibly clean the green color off you granular "selenite" you might rather try a drop of bleach. Rock From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sun Nov 6 10:10:50 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 6 10:10:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks Message-ID: <194.4b52f5fd.309fa12a@aol.com> I must admit I , in my own humble opinion, feel that some good came out of this thread. I am glad, Michael, that you gave such a detailed and well said answer showing that it was the deceptive practices of some people and you were not against the notion that there is a possibility that there may be some truth buried in all the hype. I too dislike the hype, but as I stated once before you have to be an educated consumer, even when it comes to metaphysics. There are snake oil salesmen in every walk of life, business politics and religion, and I think Jim's comparison to it almost sounding like religion is very close to home. In regards to relating experiences that make a person sit on the fence and say "hmmmm..." My mother had severe problems with her kidneys late in life having one removed and going on dialysis shortly after that. I did a little reading on crystals and healing properties to see if a "shot in the dark" might help her feel better. I gave her some hematite and rose quartz to carry with her and hold in her hand for a time during the day. To this day I don't know if it was the stones or their placebo effect, but she would end up feeling good between her dialysis treatments, as opposed to starting to feel run down and tired when she was due. I guess the bottom line is that if it really was the stones then that is great, if it was "mind over matter" and her belief that they would help, then that is great too...either way she was spared days of discomfort before she passed away. Makes me lean from my perch on the fence a little to the metaphysical side and say, well..as long as common sense, education and care are used, it can't hurt. Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From barbmike at hvi.net Sat Nov 5 21:48:55 2005 From: barbmike at hvi.net (barbmike@hvi.net) Date: Sun Nov 6 10:11:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] morocco Message-ID: <7edea248c6bb438cac414b34391a0bdd.barbmike@hvi.net> Maurice, You seem to know a lot about rocks and fossils in moorocco. I am planning a trip to morocco and want to know where are the best places to go to purchase high quality fossils and minerals. I know we will be in Fes and Meknes. Are there better places to go or is there is a good selection there? How does one spot and avoid buying fakes. Thank you for your help. Mike Scher From hammerron at yahoo.com Sun Nov 6 10:23:51 2005 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sun Nov 6 10:22:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Selenite sand with a green spot In-Reply-To: <005201c5e2fd$ec78cc30$6901a8c0@rock3> References: <200511060204.jA6249uk018628@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <005201c5e2fd$ec78cc30$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20051106132210.02da8880@pop.mail.yahoo.com> No problem, Rock. Appreciated. I even had a typo in my subject line of the original post. I'll take any post I read with a grain of halite At 11/6/2005, you wrote: >Ron, > A drop of gypsum? I must have had a drop too much to drink. To possibly >clean the green color off you granular "selenite" you might rather try a >drop of bleach. >Rock > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sun Nov 6 10:33:34 2005 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sun Nov 6 10:33:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] morocco In-Reply-To: <7edea248c6bb438cac414b34391a0bdd.barbmike@hvi.net> References: <7edea248c6bb438cac414b34391a0bdd.barbmike@hvi.net> Message-ID: <436E4C7E.2090509@xs4all.nl> Me?? I do have some Moroccan minerals, but I'm certainly no expert. The best place to buy minerals would be Midelt I guess. It is the center of the mineral trade and not far from the famous Mibladen mines. As for the fakes, well you will spot them with experience. The safest way to go is only buy stuff you know. If you see something that looks great and you haven't seen it before, it's either a scoop or a fake. The chances on a fake are slightly larger :-) Although mineral fakes are common it seems to me that fossils fakes are more common. One tip I can give you on trilobites. Look at the back of the specimen, Often you see three different colors of rock cemented together! If you understand German you should definitely buy the book 'Morocco' from Steffen Jahn. ISBN 3-9255094-79-2. Or via http://www.bode-verlag.de/ . It gives comprehensive information about many Moroccan localities. cheers, Maurice From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Nov 6 10:40:14 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sun Nov 6 10:40:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: <436E3D42.5020702@earthlink.net> <020f01c5e2f8$96fff210$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <009101c5e301$8e2810b0$f91571ce@marilyn> Michel are you married? I'm not trying to be mean. It's just that for example you can go out and buy a $5,000 diamond or a $200 zircon. They look to the naked eye to be the same. A $20 walmart dress or a $100,000 designer dress to me its what makes the person happy that counts. If my wife wanted a X stone she would come to me to ask where to get one. You are right no one wants to waste money and no one wants to be scammed. There is too much scamming in the world no doubt. Never enough happiness. rocks/minerals make me happy not through a electric charge just by looking at them. Some like iris agate and opal (my personal favorites), I see as magic in my childs eye. That doesn't keep me from not buying an opal for $10,000 a caret when I can buy one as nice for $50 a gram. All the best ! may you find a great deal on whatever you are looking for and best of all be happy with it. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schmidt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > that's great that you can co-exist as harmonius as that. > > so, for the sake of curiosity, how would you feel if she bought for $500 a > mineral that you could go out and collect that was not worth more than > $20??? > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Guin" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > > >> Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >>>Michael & list >>> >>>"prohibiting" is such an ugly word. >>>I think that anyone who wants to know what secret powers lie hidden in >>>crystals should in fact seek the answer in our beloved Rockhounds group. >>>The >>>answer IS here after all. >>>"None" is the answer "but there is so much TRUE science we can introduce >>>you >>>to" should be the logical conclusion of that answer. >>> >> In my house, we cover both ends. I tell my wife that she is too >> "religious" and she tells me that I am just not "sensitive" enough. Yet >> we live together because we respect each other. When I get back from a >> day at the mine, I clean the day's finds and lay them out on a towel. >> Victoria gets first refusal on anything that I bring into the house. >> Sometimes she just looks at them. Sometimes she holds one between her >> hands with her eyes closed. She has a wonderful collection of stones on >> the credenza above her desk and she has never been out in the field. >> When she tells me that she needs a piece of bloodstone to help a sick >> friend, I get her a piece of bloodstone. When I explain the difference >> between green elbaite and rossmanite, she listens without glazing over. >> When I made the mistake of cleaning the iron staining off of her Orange >> River "healer", she ordered another one. When she pulls a polished wand >> of charoite out of the dish at a show to give to a friend, I take it off >> the inventory list. >> >> Is there magick in the stones? I wouldn't know. I'm not sensitive >> enough to feel it ;) Is the X-site vacant in the rossmanite? Victoria >> will never know. She doesn't have access to the equipment needed to >> "see" it. What we do know is that it is not worth fighting over. >> >> Peace, >> dave >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From dguin at earthlink.net Sun Nov 6 10:50:24 2005 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Sun Nov 6 10:48:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks In-Reply-To: <008101c5e2fb$ca2b2120$f91571ce@marilyn> References: <436E3D42.5020702@earthlink.net> <008101c5e2fb$ca2b2120$f91571ce@marilyn> Message-ID: <436E5070.6080701@earthlink.net> Steve & Marilyn wrote: > Horay Dave ! Your life with your wife is an excellent example of the > way the list and life should be. All the best to All on the list. Steve Sometimes I win. Sometimes I lose. Earlier this year, my wife and a friend were on a road trip. They called me on the phone all excited about a stone that they had found in a shop. The place was "just wonderful" and the pieces "held so much power" that they wanted to know a bit more about it. I did some quick research for them since I had never heard of the material (first clue). The second clue was that the name was trademarked. I began to read the description of the material . . . . Blah, blah, blah . . .the result of a cold fusion experiment . . .blah, blah, blah . . . includes an "unpronounceable" rare earth mineral (chromium LOL). . .blah, blah, blah . . .deposit lost for many years. . .blah, blah, blah . . .completely worked out. . .blah, blah, blah . . .we have all there is. . .blah, blah, blah . . .will never be any more found. . .blah, blah, blah . . .only finished pieces available for sale (no rough available). . .blah, blah, blah . . . You get the picture. They left the shop without spending a dime. However, she also has a beautiful pendant of "mystic" topaz. She doesn't care how it was made. She just likes it. Peace, dave From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Nov 6 11:06:09 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Nov 6 11:06:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] morocco References: <7edea248c6bb438cac414b34391a0bdd.barbmike@hvi.net> Message-ID: <022801c5e305$25af1520$6402a8c0@remains> Mike I have been to Morocco several times, so maybe I can offer some advice. it depends on what you are looking for. I would avoid markets...especially Fez and Marrakesh...because most of the fossils sold in places like that (with the exception of orthoceras and goniatites) are fake. It's like that in Erfoud and Risanni, and they are in the Alnif area where so much of the fossil material (ordovician and devonian trilos) are found. As for minerals, again...depending on what you are looking for, you are better off buying them from some of the "off the beaten track" dealers in Midelt. I can't for the lifr of me remember his name, but there is a wonderful mineral/fossil dealer in Midelt. He is deaf, but his prices are fantastic, and he is so very easy to deal with. Again, he is not in the center of town, but is hidden away somewhere in a back street. Anything you get in a souk (market) will be either fake, partially fake, or overpriced. That is where all of the tourists go, so that is where the cheap fake stuff ends up being sold. The only minerals I ever saw in Meknes (my friend's cousin lives there) were galena crystals being sold in a shop as eye liner makeup for women. I can give you the names and phone numbers (if they haven't changed) of a couple of friends further south in the desert (Erfoud, Risanni) that would give you a fair deal. They may even take you out collecting if you're lucky..... If you are not going to cross the Atlas Mtns, I can also give you the name of a dealer closer to Casa/Rabat that can sell you some material at a reasonable price. As I said, it really depends on what you are looking for as far as fossils and minerals. Also be aware now that Morocco has recently signed the UNESCO treaty, and they consider their fossil materials, especially vertebrate material, as protected...so if you bring anything back with you you may have problems getting it out of the country, or back into yours. Contact me offlist, and I'll give you same names and contact info if you are interested. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:48 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] morocco > Maurice, > You seem to know a lot about rocks and fossils in moorocco. I am planning > a trip to morocco and want to know where are the best places to go to > purchase high quality fossils and minerals. I know we will be in Fes and > Meknes. Are there better places to go or is there is a good selection > there? How does one spot and avoid buying fakes. Thank you for your help. > Mike Scher > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Nov 6 11:29:56 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Nov 6 11:29:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: <436E3D42.5020702@earthlink.net> <020f01c5e2f8$96fff210$6402a8c0@remains> <009101c5e301$8e2810b0$f91571ce@marilyn> Message-ID: <023101c5e308$7870a960$6402a8c0@remains> I understand perfectly your point, but I think there is a huge difference between the two. Comparing a $5000 diamond to a $200 zircon is apples to oranges.....some people may think they are the same...look the same, whatever, but obviously they are not. when buying a $20 Walmart dress vs a $100,000 designer original....you are obviously paying a premium for someone's name. It is what makes someone happy...but I just don't think someone should be lied to in the process. If I and anyone else could buy the $100,000 dress for $5000, but one dealer was selling them for $100,000 because they would make you feel better if you wore it....that's wrong. Do you see my point? A small well formed danburite xl 2.5cm long is worth anywhere from a couple of dollars to 10 dollars in the wholesale market...approximately. Retail, maybe double that amount...again approximately. To then tell someone that that same stone from a metaphysical dealer is worth $150 because it will aid in the regeneration of your liver is, in my opinion, fraud. If you believe it will, your body may make it so, and I SINCERELY doubt that it will have very little to do with whether you have a danburite in your pocket, or a piece of broccoli. I just have seen far too many people be ripped off by this unethical business practise. If a rock makes you happy, great! If you believe it clears your skin up, great! If you pay 10 times the amount for it than it is being sold for by non-metaphysical dealers....then you are a victim. Not so great! No...I'm not married. Close to it...but not quite there. My girlfriend loves all kinds of things that I bring her back from my travels...sometimes for the same reasons I do, sometimes for different ones. Sometimes she sees beauty in what I find to be ugly...to each his/her own, and that's fine. She went to Tucson with me last year for the first time and learned firsthand exactly how many of these dealers operate. They saw her coming, and by the time she was done had forked out $65 on a small, loose cavansite crystal. Of course, the $65 was not paid for the cavansite xl...but for the myriad of wonderful healing properties that it bestowed upon an owner that it "chose" (oddly enough, it chose her), and also because of the EXTREME rarity of the material.......uh huh. I buy those for $1.00 each. Needless to say, I went back to the dealer that sold it to her and threatened to call the police if he didn't refund her money. After a bit of a discussion, he realised that I wasn't some uneducated rube, and refunded her money. I then took her to an Indian dealer where we bought 6 VERY nice loose xls which she made into earrings.....the total price was $11.00. Of course, her liver and spleen may now be unprotected. Take care Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve & Marilyn" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > Michel are you married? I'm not trying to be mean. It's just that for > example you can go out and buy a $5,000 diamond or a $200 zircon. They > look to the naked eye to be the same. A $20 walmart dress or a $100,000 > designer dress to me its what makes the person happy that counts. If my > wife wanted a X stone she would come to me to ask where to get one. You > are right no one wants to waste money and no one wants to be scammed. > There is too much scamming in the world no doubt. Never enough > happiness. rocks/minerals make me happy not through a electric charge > just by looking at them. Some like iris agate and opal (my personal > favorites), I see as magic in my childs eye. That doesn't keep me from > not buying an opal for $10,000 a caret when I can buy one as nice for $50 > a gram. All the best ! may you find a great deal on whatever you are > looking for and best of all be happy with it. Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Schmidt" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:36 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > > >> that's great that you can co-exist as harmonius as that. >> >> so, for the sake of curiosity, how would you feel if she bought for $500 >> a mineral that you could go out and collect that was not worth more than >> $20??? >> >> Michael >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dave Guin" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:28 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks >> >> >>> Axel Emmermann wrote: >>> >>>>Michael & list >>>> >>>>"prohibiting" is such an ugly word. >>>>I think that anyone who wants to know what secret powers lie hidden in >>>>crystals should in fact seek the answer in our beloved Rockhounds group. >>>>The >>>>answer IS here after all. >>>>"None" is the answer "but there is so much TRUE science we can introduce >>>>you >>>>to" should be the logical conclusion of that answer. >>>> >>> In my house, we cover both ends. I tell my wife that she is too >>> "religious" and she tells me that I am just not "sensitive" enough. Yet >>> we live together because we respect each other. When I get back from a >>> day at the mine, I clean the day's finds and lay them out on a towel. >>> Victoria gets first refusal on anything that I bring into the house. >>> Sometimes she just looks at them. Sometimes she holds one between her >>> hands with her eyes closed. She has a wonderful collection of stones on >>> the credenza above her desk and she has never been out in the field. >>> When she tells me that she needs a piece of bloodstone to help a sick >>> friend, I get her a piece of bloodstone. When I explain the difference >>> between green elbaite and rossmanite, she listens without glazing over. >>> When I made the mistake of cleaning the iron staining off of her Orange >>> River "healer", she ordered another one. When she pulls a polished wand >>> of charoite out of the dish at a show to give to a friend, I take it off >>> the inventory list. >>> >>> Is there magick in the stones? I wouldn't know. I'm not sensitive >>> enough to feel it ;) Is the X-site vacant in the rossmanite? Victoria >>> will never know. She doesn't have access to the equipment needed to >>> "see" it. What we do know is that it is not worth fighting over. >>> >>> Peace, >>> dave >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sun Nov 6 11:51:23 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sun Nov 6 11:51:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? Message-ID: <20051106195124.62906.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Late last night I wrote a long and funny email about metaphysical rocks...and after writing it, I decided that I didn't want to get a bad rep on the list for writing too much about off-topic stuff. So I deleted it and went to bed, really late and after a drop of brown...while I wrote, of course... Now I see (without reading the text, just the list of topics on the latest summary) that no one else is being the least bit restrained about metaphysical rocks. Unfortunately, I did not save my midnight screed, so I can't participate in the general humor at this time. May be it's just as well missing? Thanks, JR, hoping there's some good natured discussion and humor as opposed to a flame war - I'm almost afraid to look! __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Nov 6 11:52:01 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Nov 6 11:52:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: <194.4b52f5fd.309fa12a@aol.com> Message-ID: <024201c5e30b$8de508b0$6402a8c0@remains> I completely agree....it's just too bad that there are people out there that would take that $1.00 piece of quartz and hematite and sell it to someone desperate for $100. But, as you said, there are those types of people in all walks of life. The gemstone and fossil industry is where I make my living, and so the fraud that exists in these markets is what I see when it comes to these snake-oil salesmen. While in Lebanon last year I was travelling with a friend to Baalbek...a huge Roman temple almost in Syria. A fellow by the road was selling ancient coins from Damascus. They looked genuine enough to me, and so I was going to buy one for $20.00. My friend stopped me, and later introduced me to a friend of his that sold me the same coin for $2.50. Could I have afforded to lose $20? sure...no big deal. I wasn't upset about the fact that I would have been ripped off.....it happens. No big deal. However, had I have been told that that same coin would have helped some sickness I had, and been charged $100 for it when I could have gotten it at any other dealer's shop for $5.00....THAT would upset me. I guess more than anything it's the mumbo jumbo that goes along with the materials that bothers me. The price gauging is offensive...but where do they come up with these healing powers. Obviously, there are some gems that have been known through the ages of "having" special powers...amethyst was thought by the greeks to keep you sober. The name amethyst is actually from the Greek amethystos, meaning non drunken. Frederick Kunz wrote a book called the Curious Lore of Precious Stones...and I know some of these legends are in there. However, when you look through some of these new metaphysical books that are available, quite often they discuss newly discovered gem or mineral varieties...yet there are scores of entries regarding their wonderful healing attributes. To say that a new mineral will help cleanse your liver....who wore one of these things for x years or x months to determine this? Of course it is all made up. The words of very carefully chosen, and the word cure is never used as an absolute....."will help cleanse, help cure"...things like that. Obviously, to say in writing that a piece of tigereye being made into an elixir will CURE something would be illegal, because then it is being advocated as a drug. Many of these shucksters know exactly where to draw the line between simply taking the money of the gullible and desperate, and crossing the line where they could be charged with fraud. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks >I must admit I , in my own humble opinion, feel that some good came out of > this thread. > > I am glad, Michael, that you gave such a detailed and well said answer > showing that it was the deceptive practices of some people and you were > not > against the notion that there is a possibility that there may be some > truth buried > in all the hype. I too dislike the hype, but as I stated once before you > have > to be an educated consumer, even when it comes to metaphysics. > > There are snake oil salesmen in every walk of life, business politics and > religion, and I think Jim's comparison to it almost sounding like religion > is > very close to home. > > In regards to relating experiences that make a person sit on the fence and > say "hmmmm..." My mother had severe problems with her kidneys late in life > having one removed and going on dialysis shortly after that. I did a > little > reading on crystals and healing properties to see if a "shot in the dark" > might > help her feel better. I gave her some hematite and rose quartz to carry > with > her and hold in her hand for a time during the day. To this day I don't > know if > it was the stones or their placebo effect, but she would end up feeling > good > between her dialysis treatments, as opposed to starting to feel run down > and > tired when she was due. > > I guess the bottom line is that if it really was the stones then that is > great, if it was "mind over matter" and her belief that they would help, > then > that is great too...either way she was spared days of discomfort before > she > passed away. Makes me lean from my perch on the fence a little to the > metaphysical side and say, well..as long as common sense, education and > care are used, > it can't hurt. > > Jeff > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Nov 6 11:52:01 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Nov 6 11:52:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: <194.4b52f5fd.309fa12a@aol.com> Message-ID: <024701c5e30b$98da83d0$6402a8c0@remains> I completely agree....it's just too bad that there are people out there that would take that $1.00 piece of quartz and hematite and sell it to someone desperate for $100. But, as you said, there are those types of people in all walks of life. The gemstone and fossil industry is where I make my living, and so the fraud that exists in these markets is what I see when it comes to these snake-oil salesmen. While in Lebanon last year I was travelling with a friend to Baalbek...a huge Roman temple almost in Syria. A fellow by the road was selling ancient coins from Damascus. They looked genuine enough to me, and so I was going to buy one for $20.00. My friend stopped me, and later introduced me to a friend of his that sold me the same coin for $2.50. Could I have afforded to lose $20? sure...no big deal. I wasn't upset about the fact that I would have been ripped off.....it happens. No big deal. However, had I have been told that that same coin would have helped some sickness I had, and been charged $100 for it when I could have gotten it at any other dealer's shop for $5.00....THAT would upset me. I guess more than anything it's the mumbo jumbo that goes along with the materials that bothers me. The price gauging is offensive...but where do they come up with these healing powers. Obviously, there are some gems that have been known through the ages of "having" special powers...amethyst was thought by the greeks to keep you sober. The name amethyst is actually from the Greek amethystos, meaning non drunken. Frederick Kunz wrote a book called the Curious Lore of Precious Stones...and I know some of these legends are in there. However, when you look through some of these new metaphysical books that are available, quite often they discuss newly discovered gem or mineral varieties...yet there are scores of entries regarding their wonderful healing attributes. To say that a new mineral will help cleanse your liver....who wore one of these things for x years or x months to determine this? Of course it is all made up. The words of very carefully chosen, and the word cure is never used as an absolute....."will help cleanse, help cure"...things like that. Obviously, to say in writing that a piece of tigereye being made into an elixir will CURE something would be illegal, because then it is being advocated as a drug. Many of these shucksters know exactly where to draw the line between simply taking the money of the gullible and desperate, and crossing the line where they could be charged with fraud. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks >I must admit I , in my own humble opinion, feel that some good came out of > this thread. > > I am glad, Michael, that you gave such a detailed and well said answer > showing that it was the deceptive practices of some people and you were > not > against the notion that there is a possibility that there may be some > truth buried > in all the hype. I too dislike the hype, but as I stated once before you > have > to be an educated consumer, even when it comes to metaphysics. > > There are snake oil salesmen in every walk of life, business politics and > religion, and I think Jim's comparison to it almost sounding like religion > is > very close to home. > > In regards to relating experiences that make a person sit on the fence and > say "hmmmm..." My mother had severe problems with her kidneys late in life > having one removed and going on dialysis shortly after that. I did a > little > reading on crystals and healing properties to see if a "shot in the dark" > might > help her feel better. I gave her some hematite and rose quartz to carry > with > her and hold in her hand for a time during the day. To this day I don't > know if > it was the stones or their placebo effect, but she would end up feeling > good > between her dialysis treatments, as opposed to starting to feel run down > and > tired when she was due. > > I guess the bottom line is that if it really was the stones then that is > great, if it was "mind over matter" and her belief that they would help, > then > that is great too...either way she was spared days of discomfort before > she > passed away. Makes me lean from my perch on the fence a little to the > metaphysical side and say, well..as long as common sense, education and > care are used, > it can't hurt. > > Jeff > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 6 12:00:48 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Nov 6 12:00:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] water witching (also... XRD) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051106200048.50018.qmail@web34312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Right! That's what really scares me about "healing" with rocks, or anything else. If it makes you feel good, OK. Live and let live. But if it takes the place of competent medical care, there's a problem. I've personal experience with the damage quacks can do. Jim Daly --- Axel Emmermann wrote: > I have seen a documentary about iris-readers > recently. People who are > licensed and all (believe it or not) to read the > human iris and detect > health problems. > > The investigators had a dozen of those quacks > examine a young woman with > acute and irreversible kidney failure who had to go > to the hospital for > dialysis twice a week. > NONE of the LICENSED so-called specialists found any > health problems. When > the young woman specifically stated that she had > some kidney problems and > asked what she should do, the quacks suggested that > she should drink lots of > pure water and follow a health-diet. According to a > real specialist these > measure would have been lethal within a weak or > less. > > If you can't prove it's there, it ain't there! > Down with quacks, up with science (LOL) > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens > J Bryan Kramer > Verzonden: zondag 6 november 2005 1:48 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] water witching (also... > XRD) > > > The Amazing Randi has put up $1,000,000 for anyone > who can prove that they > can successfully dowse. THis is an increase above > the $50,000 mentioned > below. No winners yet: > > "The Man of a Thousand Tests, James "The Amazing" > Randi, put 11 dowsers to > the test for his then Fifty Thousand dollar psychic > challenge. The water > dowsing test involved ten identical pipes, one of > which would have water > flowing through it. Thus, chance would dictate a ten > percent rate of > success. Before the test began, Randi had them all > dowse the surrounding > area to assure that conditions were right for > dowsing. Then, he inquired as > to what they believed their rate of success would > be. They all said about > 80%. So, it was agreed that an 80% or higher rate of > success would win the > prize. > > The dowsers went to work. Later, they all traveled > together to a local > diner, the dowsers discussing how they would split > up the sum between all of > them. However, upon the tabulated results being > announced at the diner, the > faces of joy turned to disbelief. Their rate of > success was a paltry 12%, > not significantly different from chance. Randi > folded up his check, thanked > the challengers, and headed for home." > > http://www.geocities.com/skepdigest/Dowsing_in_Connecticut.html > BJ > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sun Nov 6 12:02:00 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sun Nov 6 12:02:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cameras and close-up photos Message-ID: <20051106200201.26361.qmail@web34602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: I'm interested in photographing minerals too, and I got a Nikon Coolpix 4500 - a 4 MPixel camera that focuses down to about 1/5 cm. I can do pretty well by setting it to manual control of the exposure and focus, and using really bright lights with a small aperture and a slow shutter speed. The ability of many Nikons to allow manual control of everything (at least in a low-speed environment like close-ups on the worktable) helps a lot with depth-of-field issues. The smaller aperture gives you a wider depth of field, and at 2 cm distance (or 4) you can get pretty good shots of crystals in the mm length range by blowing them up a little in post processing. To get stereo you can take two exposures and use software or get a stereo microscope. If you want to take photos you need a triple microscope, the third for the camera. Here's a link to a very reputable dealer: http://www.absoluteclarity.com/ I've met them, and have been refered to them by multiple experts in the field, so they come highly recommended. Trinary microscopes are expensive. I almost bought one last August at the East Coast Show, they had a great set up there, but in the end I couldn't swing their less expensive trinary, so I decided to wait. A really good article on mineral photography is at John Betts' site, the home page is http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/ and you can just scroll down to see his articles on phtography and lighting. I've done a lot of business with John over several years, he's a reliable and knowledgable person. Another good resource is a book on photographing minerals written by Jeff Scovill, who is pretty well-known in the field as one of the best at the mineral subject. I don't recall the exact title, but a search at Powells.com book seller should turn one up. Hope this helps. JR __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Nov 6 12:23:27 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Nov 6 12:22:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cameras and close-up photos In-Reply-To: <20051106200201.26361.qmail@web34602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051106200201.26361.qmail@web34602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <436E663F.4040404@verizon.net> J. R. Hodel wrote: > Hi: > > I'm interested in photographing minerals too, and I > got a Nikon Coolpix 4500 - a 4 MPixel camera that > focuses down to about 1/5 cm. . . . In my post I may have forgotten to point out that you don't really *need* a trinocular. If you're on a budget, you can adapt various cameras to the eyepieces. Now, I'm still a big fan of film cameras, but this is one instance where digital point-and-shoot has an advantage. As a bonus, two of the most recommended cameras for this purpose, the Nikon Coolpix 990 and 5000, are considered "old news" and can be found cheaply on eBay. I'm not an expert at adapting digital cameras to microsopes, but as I've stated before, there are plenty of them on the Microscope group in Yahoo groups. Some of them even sell reasonably priced adapters that are made for particular cameras. I've watched the discussions and seen the photos of what people have done, and there are an amazing number of ways to make it happen. As far as buying a stereo scope, you can do well in the used market. I'd rather buy a well-kept, used Wild, Leitz, American Optical, or Bausch & Lomb than anything new (except a Meiji, because you get what you pay for). Most new scopes are priced for the industrial market so you are paying not only for the name but also what I call "the commerical penalty." When you buy used, either from a dealer or from eBay, you usually don't have that problem. If you want to take high-quality photos of very small minerals, you have little choice other than some sophisticated equipment. However, if you want to take good quality photos of minerals down to about 45-50x, it can be done cheaply. Best, Don From kahako at verizon.net Sun Nov 6 12:26:44 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Nov 6 12:26:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? In-Reply-To: <20051106195124.62906.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051106195124.62906.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051106100830.02476e20@incoming.verizon.net> My personal opinion----not as an Admin Team Member---is that as long as we do not have sniping and personal attacks, there is nothing wrong with the discussion of beliefs about rocks and minerals. We had such a discussion in September 2002 under the topic "What do you believe about rocks?" It surfaced again in August of 2004, under the same title. It's something that apparently touches all of us at one time and in one way or another. Aloha, Kitty At 09:51 AM 11/6/2005, you wrote: >Late last night I wrote a long and funny email about >metaphysical rocks...and after writing it, I decided >that I didn't want to get a bad rep on the list for >writing too much about off-topic stuff. So I deleted >it and went to bed, really late and after a drop of >brown...while I wrote, of course... > >Now I see (without reading the text, just the list of >topics on the latest summary) that no one else is >being the least bit restrained about metaphysical >rocks. Unfortunately, I did not save my midnight >screed, so I can't participate in the general humor at >this time. > >May be it's just as well missing? > >Thanks, >JR, > >hoping there's some good natured discussion and humor >as opposed to a flame war - I'm almost afraid to look! > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Sun Nov 6 12:37:23 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Nov 6 12:37:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cameras and close-up photos In-Reply-To: <20051106200201.26361.qmail@web34602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051106200201.26361.qmail@web34602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You know Intel makes a microscope (Intel Play Qx3 Computer Microscope) that's really a digital camera that plugs into a usb port, it has 10X, 50X and 200X magnification and you can just grab the image on the computer screen. Best of all it can be had for $50-60 bucks. It's advertised as a toy but I've heard of lots of people using them. I have to say that I have not used it. Apprently Intel stopped making them but they are still availble online, see: www.intelplay.com BK On 11/6/05, J. R. Hodel wrote: > > Hi: > > I'm interested in photographing minerals too, and I > got a Nikon Coolpix 4500 - a 4 MPixel camera that > focuses down to about 1/5 cm. I can do pretty well by > setting it to manual control of the exposure and > focus, and using really bright lights with a small > aperture and a slow shutter speed. The ability of > many Nikons to allow manual control of everything (at > least in a low-speed environment like close-ups on the > worktable) helps a lot with depth-of-field issues. > > The smaller aperture gives you a wider depth of field, > and at 2 cm distance (or 4) you can get pretty good > shots of crystals in the mm length range by blowing > them up a little in post processing. > > To get stereo you can take two exposures and use > software or get a stereo microscope. If you want to > take photos you need a triple microscope, the third > for the camera. Here's a link to a very reputable > dealer: > http://www.absoluteclarity.com/ > > I've met them, and have been refered to them by > multiple experts in the field, so they come highly > recommended. Trinary microscopes are expensive. I > almost bought one last August at the East Coast Show, > they had a great set up there, but in the end I > couldn't swing their less expensive trinary, so I > decided to wait. > > A really good article on mineral photography is at > John Betts' site, the home page is > http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/ and you can > just scroll down to see his articles on phtography and > lighting. I've done a lot of business with John over > several years, he's a reliable and knowledgable > person. > > Another good resource is a book on photographing > minerals written by Jeff Scovill, who is pretty > well-known in the field as one of the best at the > mineral subject. I don't recall the exact title, but > a search at Powells.com book seller should turn one > up. > > Hope this helps. > > JR > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From agesilaus at gmail.com Sun Nov 6 12:44:00 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Nov 6 12:44:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051106100830.02476e20@incoming.verizon.net> References: <20051106195124.62906.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20051106100830.02476e20@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: This thread is about the great divide in personality types. There are people who believe in the scientific method, the 'show me' people. And there are folks who don't, the 'I feel it' folks. People from one group will never convince people from the other group to change allegiance and only hard feelings will result if you try. So accept the difference and don't debate it. I think this list is heavily in group A and any extended thread will begin to irritate them. BK On 11/6/05, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > My personal opinion----not as an Admin Team Member---is that as long as we > do not have sniping and personal attacks, there is nothing wrong with the > discussion of beliefs about rocks and minerals. We had such a discussion > in September 2002 under the topic "What do you believe about rocks?" It > surfaced again in August of 2004, under the same title. It's something > that apparently touches all of us at one time and in one way or another. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Nov 6 11:02:35 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Nov 6 13:04:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? References: <20051106195124.62906.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01c5e304$af955160$6400a8c0@mshome.net> JR, Garrison Keillor said that the best story he ever wrote was lost in the train station in Portland, OR. He says it gets funnier every year. So you're in good company. Personally, my favorite photographs were taken while digging garnet at Emerald Creek, ID. There were several shots of a tow-headed kid, drenched in muck and grinning like to break his face. I got some shots of John, a retired gentleman in his late 60's, covered in muck and grinning the a tow-headed kid. Our dogs posed by a natural heart-shaped arrangement of wildflowers by the creek. Seems they were grinning too. It wasn't until the 38th frame (on a 36 frame roll) that I realized that there was no film in the camera. Those shots get better every year. John From: "J. R. Hodel" > Late last night I wrote a long and funny email about > metaphysical rocks...and after writing it, I decided > that I didn't want to get a bad rep on the list for > writing too much about off-topic stuff. So I deleted > it and went to bed, really late and after a drop of > brown...while I wrote, of course... > May be it's just as well missing? > > Thanks, > JR, From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Nov 6 13:34:40 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sun Nov 6 13:34:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks References: <436E3D42.5020702@earthlink.net><020f01c5e2f8$96fff210$6402a8c0@remains><009101c5e301$8e2810b0$f91571ce@marilyn> <023101c5e308$7870a960$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <00d201c5e319$ed8633d0$f91571ce@marilyn> And I understand your point. I'm glad you got her money back. AND she got some minerals she loves. On the diamond to zircon I think the Debeers corp has done the same thing to people as the metaphysical folks. Diamonds are not rare and are not worth any more than zircons, unless you use them as an abrasive. Diamonds are being sold to the public (uneducated) as rare and valuable stones. That is unfair and a scam done by educated reputable? mineral dealers. Supply and demand I don't think so. Monopoly yes. There are many other examples of unscrupulous dealers say fake fossils! Again I am happy you are able to save youe fiancee money and get her better materials and I do not advocate using minerals to HEAL diseases. I wish you the best and have happy Happy Holidays and a wonderful marrage. Marrage opened new worlds for me. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schmidt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks >I understand perfectly your point, but I think there is a huge difference >between the two. > > Comparing a $5000 diamond to a $200 zircon is apples to oranges.....some > people may think they are the same...look the same, whatever, but > obviously they are not. > > when buying a $20 Walmart dress vs a $100,000 designer original....you are > obviously paying a premium for someone's name. > > It is what makes someone happy...but I just don't think someone should be > lied to in the process. If I and anyone else could buy the $100,000 dress > for $5000, but one dealer was selling them for $100,000 because they would > make you feel better if you wore it....that's wrong. Do you see my point? > A small well formed danburite xl 2.5cm long is worth anywhere from a > couple of dollars to 10 dollars in the wholesale market...approximately. > Retail, maybe double that amount...again approximately. To then tell > someone that that same stone from a metaphysical dealer is worth $150 > because it will aid in the regeneration of your liver is, in my opinion, > fraud. If you believe it will, your body may make it so, and I SINCERELY > doubt that it will have very little to do with whether you have a > danburite in your pocket, or a piece of broccoli. > > I just have seen far too many people be ripped off by this unethical > business practise. If a rock makes you happy, great! If you believe it > clears your skin up, great! If you pay 10 times the amount for it than it > is being sold for by non-metaphysical dealers....then you are a victim. > Not so great! > > No...I'm not married. Close to it...but not quite there. My girlfriend > loves all kinds of things that I bring her back from my > travels...sometimes for the same reasons I do, sometimes for different > ones. Sometimes she sees beauty in what I find to be ugly...to each > his/her own, and that's fine. She went to Tucson with me last year for the > first time and learned firsthand exactly how many of these dealers > operate. They saw her coming, and by the time she was done had forked out > $65 on a small, loose cavansite crystal. Of course, the $65 was not paid > for the cavansite xl...but for the myriad of wonderful healing properties > that it bestowed upon an owner that it "chose" (oddly enough, it chose > her), and also because of the EXTREME rarity of the material.......uh huh. > I buy those for $1.00 each. Needless to say, I went back to the dealer > that sold it to her and threatened to call the police if he didn't refund > her money. After a bit of a discussion, he realised that I wasn't some > uneducated rube, and refunded her money. I then took her to an Indian > dealer where we bought 6 VERY nice loose xls which she made into > earrings.....the total price was $11.00. Of course, her liver and spleen > may now be unprotected. > > Take care > > Michael > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve & Marilyn" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 11:40 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks > > >> Michel are you married? I'm not trying to be mean. It's just that for >> example you can go out and buy a $5,000 diamond or a $200 zircon. They >> look to the naked eye to be the same. A $20 walmart dress or a $100,000 >> designer dress to me its what makes the person happy that counts. If my >> wife wanted a X stone she would come to me to ask where to get one. You >> are right no one wants to waste money and no one wants to be scammed. >> There is too much scamming in the world no doubt. Never enough >> happiness. rocks/minerals make me happy not through a electric charge >> just by looking at them. Some like iris agate and opal (my personal >> favorites), I see as magic in my childs eye. That doesn't keep me from >> not buying an opal for $10,000 a caret when I can buy one as nice for $50 >> a gram. All the best ! may you find a great deal on whatever you are >> looking for and best of all be happy with it. Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Michael Schmidt" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:36 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks >> >> >>> that's great that you can co-exist as harmonius as that. >>> >>> so, for the sake of curiosity, how would you feel if she bought for $500 >>> a mineral that you could go out and collect that was not worth more than >>> $20??? >>> >>> Michael >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Dave Guin" >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 10:28 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks >>> >>> >>>> Axel Emmermann wrote: >>>> >>>>>Michael & list >>>>> >>>>>"prohibiting" is such an ugly word. >>>>>I think that anyone who wants to know what secret powers lie hidden in >>>>>crystals should in fact seek the answer in our beloved Rockhounds >>>>>group. The >>>>>answer IS here after all. >>>>>"None" is the answer "but there is so much TRUE science we can >>>>>introduce you >>>>>to" should be the logical conclusion of that answer. >>>>> >>>> In my house, we cover both ends. I tell my wife that she is too >>>> "religious" and she tells me that I am just not "sensitive" enough. >>>> Yet we live together because we respect each other. When I get back >>>> from a day at the mine, I clean the day's finds and lay them out on a >>>> towel. Victoria gets first refusal on anything that I bring into the >>>> house. Sometimes she just looks at them. Sometimes she holds one >>>> between her hands with her eyes closed. She has a wonderful collection >>>> of stones on the credenza above her desk and she has never been out in >>>> the field. When she tells me that she needs a piece of bloodstone to >>>> help a sick friend, I get her a piece of bloodstone. When I explain >>>> the difference between green elbaite and rossmanite, she listens >>>> without glazing over. When I made the mistake of cleaning the iron >>>> staining off of her Orange River "healer", she ordered another one. >>>> When she pulls a polished wand of charoite out of the dish at a show to >>>> give to a friend, I take it off the inventory list. >>>> >>>> Is there magick in the stones? I wouldn't know. I'm not sensitive >>>> enough to feel it ;) Is the X-site vacant in the rossmanite? Victoria >>>> will never know. She doesn't have access to the equipment needed to >>>> "see" it. What we do know is that it is not worth fighting over. >>>> >>>> Peace, >>>> dave >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>> Subscription Services: >>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Nov 6 14:02:37 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 6 14:02:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals Message-ID: <9d.6c57fe90.309fd77d@aol.com> Paul I've done some of this work with micro fossils and tiny shark teeth. First, for this sort of material a single lens reflex (SLR) camera is a must, digital or otherwise. The range finder cameras are too difficult to focus at this level. If you are using real film you can get an SLR for a few hundred. Digital SLR's start at about $900. Canon and Nikon both have Digital SLR's starting in this range. Second you need a means of securing the camera. The most minute movement of the camera will mess up the results. I use a copy stand which I bought by mail years ago from a camera mega store in New York. Next you want to shoot with the highest film speed setting you can. Old films got grainy at high Speed but today's films suffer from that problem to a much smaller degree. With digital cameras, this is a matter of a setting in the software. You may have to manipulate colors though since "pushing" a film tends to shift color. The reason you want to use a high speed is to use the highest f-stop (smallest hole). Another variable is time and you can use longer exposures, provided you have a stand to hold the camera and a cable release so you don't shake the camera pushing the button. Additionally you want to get as much light as possible on the subject. The whole idea is that the bigger the f-stop number the greater the depth of field in focus, however you pay for that with higher speed films, need for more intense lighting and/or longer exposure times. Next you need a means of getting a closeup. Many Stereo Microscopes have a camera port and you can use this to take pictures. You'll need an adapter for the camera and you'll need to shift to manual exposures since the auto lens will be disconnected. I have a bellows lens and copy stand. It works pretty well down to a few millimeters. Beyond that a microscope is needed. There is also a technique wherein you take a series of photos focusing on a different depth and then feed that to a computer program which melds the photos together. I have no idea what software does this but I have seen the results. So in the end taking good pics is a combination of securing the camera, using light, f-stop and time to increase depth of field and then using some means of getting a closeup (lens, bellows, software, microscope etc) Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 11/5/2005 9:42:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pbhewitt@comcast.net writes: I would like to know what equipment is out there that can be used to view and/or photograph tiny crytals of say less than 2 mm. I use a 30X loupe but the depth of field is so small that it makes it difficult to keep the entire crystal in focus. I would like to have a binocular view too. I have a digital camera with macro mode and some of those screw on magnifying filters but they are only good down to 5 or 6 mm. How do people take those great pics? By spending tons of money on fancy and expensive equipment? Paul --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Nov 6 14:14:56 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Nov 6 14:15:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) In-Reply-To: <20051105142251.93526.qmail@web54704.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200511062215.jA6MEwwu008202@outmx006.isp.belgacom.be> Dear Timothy, The stability of realgar has to do with the formation of pararealgar, AsS. The yellowish powdery deterioration product of realgar is known for "ages", but was only characterised fully in 1980 by Roberts A.C. et al. ("Pararealgar, a new polymorph of AsS from British Columbia", Canadian Mineralogist 18, 525-527). Some facts : - the yellowish powdery product is not orpiment, and it also not a mixture of orpiment and arsenolite as has been thought earlier. - a simple experiment showed that arsenolite could not be involved. Because arsenolite is an oxide, oxygen would have to be available to form the product from any sulphide. Fresh realgar crystals were embedded in a transparent resin (ergo in absence of oxygen), and the yellowish powder was formed anyway. That proved that light was the only factor involved. - later on, the mineral was characterised by X-ray diffractometry, and its structure was described, and named "pararealgar". - further experiments were performed by Douglass et al. in 1992 ("The light-induced alteration of realgar to pararealgar", Am. Mineral. 77, 1266-1274) - they found out that only light with a wavelength of 500-600 (that is in the visible part of the spectrum) nm was effective for the process. UV and IR radiation did not influence the realgar. - realgar from some localities doesn't show the alteration process at all ; this is due to a stage of the complex process that is interfered by the presence of another intermediate phase, alpha-AsS - the mechanism of the alteration process was described by Douglass (1992) - in the meantime pararealgar was also detected in ancient paintings, on which realgar had been used as a red pigment in paint. To answer your question (in part) : as far as I know pure orpiment as such is stable; it is the realgar that is nearly always present with orpiment that yields the unstable yellowish powdery alteration product (and for that reason any orpiment specimen that contains even traces of realgar is also suspect to deterioration). Any light that is rich in wavelengths between 500 and 600 nm is harmful. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Timothy Blackwood Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 3:23 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) Hello everyone, I have a question about the stability of orpiment and realgar. Are the realgar crystals from China any more stable in the presence of light than those from Nevada, or other localities? Also, I have a nice miniature of orpiment from the Twin Creeks Mine, Nevada, as well as another small cabinet from the old finds in Peru. I've read that orpiment is sometimes considered light-sensitive. Is this true, or are they more stable? Should exposure to light be avoided? Is sunlight worse than indoor lighting? Also, what minerals do orpiment and realgar alter too in the presence of light? Thank you very much in advance and I'll look forward to hearing from you soon. :) Sincerely, Tim Blackwood Timothy J. Blackwood E-mail: tblackwood1@yahoo.com Phone: (218)328-6272 Home Address: 120 N.W. 5th Street Apt. #101 Cohasset, Minnesota, USA 55721 __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sun Nov 6 14:37:55 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Sun Nov 6 14:38:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466> <001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> I have a question about minerals like hematite that are attracted by magnets. If a material will attract iron based substances it is deemed "magnetic". Is there a term/word for a material that is attracted to a magnet? The reason I ask is that I took some hematite to a club meeting and I wanted a way to label it to show that it is attracted by a magnet other than saying "sticks to a magnet". Any ideas? Paul From agesilaus at gmail.com Sun Nov 6 14:51:26 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Nov 6 14:51:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology In-Reply-To: <00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466> <001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1> <00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: Paramagnetic may be the term you are looking for: Definition of paramagnetic 1. Substances having a magnetic susceptibilitygreater than 0 are paramagnetic . They are drawn into a magnetic field. See also diamagnetic. BK On 11/6/05, Paul wrote: > > I have a question about minerals like hematite that are attracted by > magnets. If a material will attract iron based substances it is deemed > "magnetic". Is there a term/word for a material that is attracted to a > magnet? The reason I ask is that I took some hematite to a club meeting > and > I wanted a way to label it to show that it is attracted by a magnet other > than saying "sticks to a magnet". Any ideas? > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sun Nov 6 14:51:55 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Sun Nov 6 14:52:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466><001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1><00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <00e801c5e324$afe67110$6401a8c0@maingear> Wow that was quick ... THANKS! ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 5:51 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology Paramagnetic may be the term you are looking for: Definition of paramagnetic 1. Substances having a magnetic susceptibilitygreater than 0 are paramagnetic . They are drawn into a magnetic field. See also diamagnetic. BK On 11/6/05, Paul wrote: > > I have a question about minerals like hematite that are attracted by > magnets. If a material will attract iron based substances it is deemed > "magnetic". Is there a term/word for a material that is attracted to a > magnet? The reason I ask is that I took some hematite to a club meeting > and > I wanted a way to label it to show that it is attracted by a magnet other > than saying "sticks to a magnet". Any ideas? > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005 From llbullbull at hotmail.com Sun Nov 6 15:39:38 2005 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Sun Nov 6 15:39:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Walworth, NY Message-ID: An Excellent Weekend Adventure, Walworth, NY The forecast was ominous on the Friday of Columbus Day Weekend. We also knew that staying at home in Massachusetts was not going to be any better and most likely would be much worse. (It was.) So we (Ed Norton, Steve Towne and myself) set out for western New York with the prospect of driving through some really heavy rains. We did. Nevertheless we made our destination near Rochester, New York (Fairport, NY) in good time. The drive took about five and half hours from Shrewsbury, MA to the motel. It really was tough to see at times and not the best of driving conditions. We passed through the cold front near Syracuse, NY and the temperature promptly dropped some 10 degrees or so in about ten or fifteen miles. It was now about 50 degrees, cold, damp, raw and windy. We had started out about 2:00 pm with the temperature at 81 degrees. (The month of October was never the same after that.) We hoped that the morning would bring better weather and that we would hopefully just far enough west to be out of the messy weather. The Weather Channel gave us some hope with lowering percentages for rain, but there was still a 30% chance. We awoke at 5:40 am to find it was very damp and wet. A very heavy mist was falling. Although we would definitely need rain gear at least it was no longer pouring. A good thing. We went to breakfast and in short order were on our way to the quarry. We arrived shortly after 7:00 am and it was just starting to get light. We made our way through the paperwork line, release signing to be able to collect. At 7:45 am we had our mandatory safety meeting and at 8:00 am we headed down into the quarry proper. Approximately eighty souls braving the nasty weather but hopeful of finding some mineral treasures. It only took but a few minutes for me to find my first keeper. A floater selenite specimen about the size of a slightly flattened softball. I knew the specimen was neat but had no idea just how neat because it was covered with mud. Back home and once cleaned you could see it had a window on one side through witch you could see a fluorite specimen on a matrix of dolomite within. A really nice find. I started work on a row of material set out and away from the blast pile. It proved to be a good decision as there was plenty of rock to work with plentiful pockets. Some of the pockets held fluorite crystals. The only negative was the cut off saw, (borrowed from my son-in-law) just would not cooperate. That has been the fate of each of the three saws I have used at this quarry. Each time there has been a different problem. Although one did work for a little while. Once I got home I was able to start it right up. Go figure. The primary benefit of the saw's use is to keep the fluorites on the matrix. They tend to be very sensitive to hammering nearby and have a habit of flying off with the least initiative or that one last hammer blow. On the other even worse is when the crystal cleaves. So I was muddling through the AM with the mist finally ceasing about mid-morning (finally got rid of the rain gear) and slowing accumulating a number of matrix specimens with fluorite but more loose crystals for my efforts. Near noon it was time for a break to watch a 40 ton or so blast. The quarry had invited a couple of hundred scouts to watch the blast. So we along with them got to see the blast. We were all safely positioned a distance away. We saw the rock lift, flow outward and down. Then came the dust and finally the noise of the explosions in rapid succession. It was neat to see live something I have seen on TV a number of times. Next back down into the quarry for more collecting which continued until shortly after 2:00 pm. We all had to be out of the quarry by 3:00 pm. So the designed personnel started rounding everyone up with some significant time cushion. Thoughts now turned to a hot shower after some eight hours or so out on a very raw day. So it was back to the motel for hot showers and then naturally thoughts turned to food. In this case we had all agreed that pizza was the item of choice. We found a good pizza place and ate until full. It was now time to relax before bed and some much needed sleep to be ready to go at it again on Sunday. The day dawned overcast but no rain. It was pretty much the same routine on Sunday morning as on Saturday. The numbers were just about cut in half from Saturday, i.e. about forty collectors. We were to spend a short time on the right side of the quarry while the material on the left (the most mineralized and thus productive area) was moved about and/or turned over. The quarry person charged with that job was a little late; however, and it was a couple of hours before we could spread out back to the left side of the quarry. In the mean time some great things were found. I walked around a bit and ended up on the ramp separating the left from the right sides of the quarry. It was there that Christmas came early for one collector, Doug Russell. It was fitting as he had helped a young collector on Saturday cut out with his saw a very nice specimen of fluorite on matrix. It won first prize at the dinner on Saturday night. We did see another better specimen but the collectors did not go to the dinner. More later about this collector. Back to Doug Russell...he attacked a good size boulder which had previously had a specimen cut from its end. He figured since it had had one good enough to cut out it might have more within. And therein he found three pockets with three large killer fluorites crystals all in the two inch plus range. It was ten years in the making he said but well worth the wait. Previously several good specimens had been recovered from the large blocks of rock on the ramp which was why I had gone up there. Although I did not find a treasure to compare with Doug's I did find a nice matrix specimen with some fourteen fluorite crystals on matrix. The largest crystal being nearly an inch. I was pleased. Thank you Doug for your assistance in cutting it out. As for Ed and Steve they were collecting as a team. So I went to check on them and to see how the other collectors were doing who by now had returned to the left side of the quarry. There were a number of very happy people there as there were a number of good specimens liberated from the rocks. Then there was one of the nicest pieces that was collected by simply turning a rock over. Some people are just really lucky. It was a matrix specimen with multiple clusters of fluorite. The largest crystal being about an inch . Back to that great specimen I mentioned early that would have won Saturday night. The couple who collected it were from Ohio. They were staying at the same motel and maybe two rooms down from us. Their specimen was one of the nicest I have ever seen from this quarry. It was a matrix piece about 12" x 8" x 6". The unusual thing was how nicely the 1" plus blue fluorite was perched on pink dolomite crystals. Usually the fluorites are on the dolomite rock or very small dolomite crystals. But these dolomites were a quarter inch plus. The blue of the fluorite crystal contrasted nicely with the pink dolomite crystals. The couple did have some problems however on their trip including their large German Sheppard tearing up the window shades in their trailer (apparently the dog got a little bored) and the husband managed to smash his finger as well. Despite these problems they sure were happy. Driving home was uneventful. They way we like it. So it was a good weekend and a perfect time to have been out of Massachusetts what with the all the rain and resulting flooding. After cleaning and trimming the specimens I can say it was definitely a good trip. The results were good and next time if I can get a cut off saw functioning it could even be better. Larry Bull _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Nov 6 16:10:27 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Nov 6 15:55:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cinnabar tea References: <200511061549.jA6FnWIF005854@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <008a01c5e32f$a964a2c0$6901a8c0@rock3> When I first went to China one of the things I wanted to get were specimens of Cinnabar. And I found them, lots of them, but only crystals on matrix. I could only rarely find a loose crystal. At first I thought it was because they took all the single crystals and glued them back on matrix, which was common. Then I saw a strange little double sided "Richer" mount kind of box and under the little glass window was a pavement of small rectangular cinnabar cleavages. Some boxes had smaller cleavages than other and the larger the cleavages, the more expensive the box.. They were not cheap, about $100 depending on the size of the cleavages. These little cinnabar cleavages were used in the practice of traditional Chinese medicine. I was told you put a single cleavage in tea and then drink the tea. When the cleavage lost its nice red color then the "medicine" was used up and you needed to put in a nice new red cleavage fragment. This "medicine" has apparently been used for hundreds of years for "heart" problems. I guess that the solubility of the cinnabar is really low the harmful effects of mercury poisoning would have long since been noticed. I also learned that cinnabar has a really good cleavage, something that I had not observed from the few crystals I had previously seen. These cleavages and their use is traditional Chinese medicine is another reason that you don't often see single cinnabar crystals for sale. Rock From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Nov 6 17:07:23 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Nov 6 16:52:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minerals in Morocco References: <200511061930.jA6JUEOT012053@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <009a01c5e337$9d7823d0$6901a8c0@rock3> Mike, If you want to buy minerals, the best place to go is Midelt/Mibladen. I lump them together because Mibladen is a little village a few clicks east? of Midelt. The village is full of guys who dig specimens from the local base metal mines. Heavy in vanadinite, barite cerussite, but a lot of them get stuff from Touissit and other places in Morocco. You can just drive into the village and people will approach you wanting to know if you want to buy minerals. You can b ranch out from there. There are also many other dealers in Midelt. If you go there the main tourist hotel, the one that feeds lunch to buss loads of tourists on their way to the northern most sand dunes of the Sahara, has several young guys set up right outside the hotel with tables full of fossils and minerals to sell. You can probably arrange with one of them to take you around to all of the dealers for a flat rate per day or say 5% of what you buy. You need to try and avoid the guys who will take you only to the dealers that will give him a 20 to 50% kick back on what you buy. For fossils Erfoud and Risane are probably best and to get there you pretty much have to go through Midelt. It sounds like you are doing mostly the tourist things and hope to beg a day or two off to chase minerals and fossils. There are other places to go, but unless you have the time it is not worth going into them. You will get the most bank for you buck at the above places. If you have more time than two or three days contact me off line. Rock From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Sun Nov 6 17:15:10 2005 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Sun Nov 6 17:15:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104193714.028ed9f8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <20051107011510.83780.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> By looking at it, it appears that it does not use a lubricant when cutting? Is my observation correct? Thanks June __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Nov 6 17:15:39 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 6 17:15:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals Message-ID: <1aa.42c38645.30a004bb@aol.com> I have a digital Rebel and an old Elan II. Now I know what I want Santa to bring me. thanks. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 11/6/2005 9:00:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, mike@colellaphoto.com writes: Just finished testing a rather fancy & Expensive lens for that very purpose. It was a Canon 65mm Macro 2.8 with a mag of 5:1. That's right it enlarges 5x's life size. I used it on a Digital 20D and was amazed with it's results. Finer than my Stereoscope, must be close to object and 'Rock' steady, mirror lock-up is a must. I was shooting sand and the results wee beautiful. And since it has normal iris like all lenses, stopping down to f-8 (which tested to be the sharpest aperture) gave me reasonable depth-of-field, enough to have a whole grain in focus. Something I have not been able to do in my Scope. Lens costs $850. If I get a chance I will post some shots, or contact me off list. Mike --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Nov 6 17:26:12 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Nov 6 17:23:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw References: <20051107011510.83780.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c5e33a$3dbf9060$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> All Highland Park saws I am aware of, use a lubricant to lubricate the saw blade. Usually an oil. The 16 inch Highland Park I use all the time, also has a couple of small oil cups on the drive shaft for the feed mechanism for lubricating the drive shaft bushings. ----- Original Message ----- From: "June Young" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw > By looking at it, it appears that it does not use a > lubricant when cutting? Is my observation correct? > Thanks > June > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sun Nov 6 17:24:52 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Sun Nov 6 17:25:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals References: <1aa.42c38645.30a004bb@aol.com> Message-ID: <013101c5e33a$0e1458f0$6401a8c0@maingear> I am looking at stereo digital microscopes that have built in digital cameras. Kind of expensive but I have been a good boy this year. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals > > I have a digital Rebel and an old Elan II. Now I know what I want Santa to > bring me. thanks. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > > > > In a message dated 11/6/2005 9:00:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mike@colellaphoto.com writes: > > Just finished testing a rather fancy & Expensive lens for that very > purpose. It was a Canon 65mm Macro 2.8 with a mag of 5:1. That's right it > enlarges 5x's life size. I used it on a Digital 20D and was amazed with > it's > results. Finer than my Stereoscope, must be close to object and 'Rock' > steady, mirror lock-up is a must. I was shooting sand and the results wee > beautiful. And since it has normal iris like all lenses, stopping down to > f-8 (which tested to be the sharpest aperture) gave me reasonable > depth-of-field, enough to have a whole grain in focus. Something I have > not > been able to do in my Scope. Lens costs $850. > If I get a chance I will post some shots, or contact me off list. > Mike > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005 > > From Cycadwood at aol.com Sun Nov 6 17:30:17 2005 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 6 17:30:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals Message-ID: In a message dated 11/6/2005 6:26:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, pbhewitt@comcast.net writes: I am looking at stereo digital microscopes that have built in digital cameras. Kind of expensive but I have been a good boy this year. Can you tell us where to see them? I have been using a Meiji EMZ-TR stereo microscope with a photo tube with an adapter on a SONY digital camera with good results but a minute depth of field and considerable drop off in light and focus toward the margins. Thanks, Frank Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 westerncolopub@aol.com 970.242.5255 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Ferns, Cones, and Cycads and the soon to be released Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Nov 6 17:32:45 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Nov 6 17:32:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals In-Reply-To: <013101c5e33a$0e1458f0$6401a8c0@maingear> References: <1aa.42c38645.30a004bb@aol.com> <013101c5e33a$0e1458f0$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <436EAEBD.10103@verizon.net> Paul wrote: > I am looking at stereo digital microscopes that have built in digital > cameras. Kind of expensive but I have been a good boy this year. Hi Paul, Can you post links to those? I'd be skeptical about any of these; the lower-cost ones are not known for high quality all around. You might do better adapting a current digital camera to an eyepiece on a stereoscope. I'd hate to see you spend money on something without looking at the technical specs and be disappointed. Best, Don From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sun Nov 6 17:31:26 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Sun Nov 6 17:32:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals References: Message-ID: <013b01c5e33a$f8bea860$6401a8c0@maingear> Either here; http://www.microscope-depot.com/seriesW.asp?bhcp=1 or here: http://scientificsonline.com/search.asp?start=0&t=ss&ss=microscope ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 8:30 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals > > In a message dated 11/6/2005 6:26:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > pbhewitt@comcast.net writes: > > I am looking at stereo digital microscopes that have built in digital > cameras. Kind of expensive but I have been a good boy this year. > > > > Can you tell us where to see them? I have been using a Meiji EMZ-TR stereo > microscope with a photo tube with an adapter on a SONY digital camera with > good > results but a minute depth of field and considerable drop off in light and > focus toward the margins. > > Thanks, > Frank > > Frank J. Daniels, Publisher > Western Colorado Publishing Company > 2024 Freedom Court > Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 > westerncolopub@aol.com > 970.242.5255 > Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Ferns, Cones, > and > Cycads and the soon to be released Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at > Fossil > Wood. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005 > > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Nov 6 17:39:01 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Nov 6 17:39:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466> Message-ID: <000d01c5e33c$080056b0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> I would be interested in a picture of your sand. Send me a few. Size of file is NOT important, send away. Jeanette geenet2@mchsi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael J. Colella" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 8:00 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals > Just finished testing a rather fancy & Expensive lens for that very >> If I get a chance I will post some shots, or contact me off list. > Mike > > Michael J. Colella From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sun Nov 6 17:39:03 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Sun Nov 6 17:40:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals References: <013b01c5e33a$f8bea860$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <014c01c5e33c$08eed560$6401a8c0@maingear> You can go here: http://www.microscope-store.com/index.php/cPath/1_10 and they sell a microscope and a camera for $544. From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Nov 6 17:52:40 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Nov 6 17:50:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw References: <20051107011510.83780.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c5e33d$f21379c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> June check out this article on rebuilding old saws. If I was you I would use mineral oil in your saw. Put in just enough oil in the pan that the blade is about a quarter inch into the oil at the bottom of the blade. http://www.lapidaryjournal.com/feature/slabsaw.cfm ----- Original Message ----- From: "June Young" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw > By looking at it, it appears that it does not use a > lubricant when cutting? Is my observation correct? > Thanks > June > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Nov 6 17:51:01 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Nov 6 17:51:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Metaphysical Rocks In-Reply-To: <019f01c5e2e1$492b7170$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: Might be time for some laudenum koolaid and douse this subject with cold water except for real inquiries or serious posts. Can't we all just get along and lighten up to at least a low level of tolerance? Glenn  {;={D} From: Michael Schmidt dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca PS- I hear elixirs made of realgar and autunite are good for your chakra......why not try one? Add just a little dash of cinnabar for flavour!!! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Search, shop, and browse smarter using tabs with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Nov 6 18:19:47 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Nov 6 18:19:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals In-Reply-To: <013b01c5e33a$f8bea860$6401a8c0@maingear> References: <013b01c5e33a$f8bea860$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <436EB9C3.6080306@verizon.net> Paul wrote: > Either here; http://www.microscope-depot.com/seriesW.asp?bhcp=1 Paul, Looking at the specs of those, I see three potential problems: 1) The built-in illumination is underpowered--a common problem these days in all but high-end scopes--and you'd be well advised to buy a dual head fiber optic illuminator in any case. 2) The scope itself is not a name brand and you can't be sure of the quality. Also, it is a switchable 10x/30x mag., which makes the scope cheaper, but you'd soon be wishing for a continous zoom scope that takes you down to at least 40-50x. 3) The specs on the video component are unimpressive. I'm almost certain your digital camera can do better. In microscopes, you most certainly get what you pay for. This falls back to what I said earlier: you'd do better with a good quality used scope and adapting your camera to an eyepiece. It is more likely you'd find a dealer who can clean, adjust, and lubricate a name-brand used scope than one of those. They all do need maintenance, and if the parts are stamped or crimped vs. modular, you are out of luck if anything breaks. If you ask the dealer where it is made, you either won't get an answer or they will tell you China or Vietnam or somewhere similar where labor is dirt-cheap and stringent quality control doesn't translate into their language. I don't know anyone who's been unhappy with either a used or new Meiji. My non-stereo scopes (polarizing, reflected light, incident darkfield, phase contrast) are all Leitz Ortholuxes that were made before I was born, and they are in better shape than I am. The biggest mistake I ever made was being talked into buying a Chinese petrographic microscope, and I can say without reservation it is a piece of crap. From reading the posts of my colleagues, I don't know anyone who is happy with one of these toys or would recommend one. Since I live so far away, I can't show you things. I don't know how far Marietta is from Philadelphia or Baltimore, but there are micromount societies in both places. In addition, the Internet is a wonderful resource for finding what you need. In all honesty, the first thing you need to do is ask yourself "what is the absolute most money I can spend?" After you answer that, get the best scope you can find for that money. We have all poured a lot of information on you today. This is probably overwhelming. You have a lot of choices to make--do you want to go with the pure photographic route, i.e., macro lenses, bellows, etc.--or do you, as it would seem, want to find the joys of microminerals with a stereoscope and adapt the photography to that? Personally, I think you would get a lot of of being able to enjoy microminerals in 3D, versus simply using a camera to try to zoom in on them and photograph them. I suppose I should have asked that question first: if you thinking about photographing minerals that you can't quite see with the naked eye, how would you know they are there and how to arrange them into the plane of focus in the first place? Well, I'll let you think about these things. Don From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Nov 6 18:21:35 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Nov 6 18:21:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology In-Reply-To: <00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: Ferrous comes to mind. Do magnets attract anything non-ferrous? Glenn From: "Paul" <pbhewitt@comcast.net> Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 17:37:55 -0500 I have a question about minerals like hematite that are attracted by magnets. If a material will attract iron based substances it is deemed "magnetic". Is there a term/word for a material that is attracted to a magnet? The reason I ask is that I took some hematite to a club meeting and I wanted a way to label it to show that it is attracted by a magnet other than saying "sticks to a magnet". Any ideas? Paul ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Create your own custom mailing list called Groups with MSN Hotmail ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Nov 6 18:36:01 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 6 18:30:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw References: <20051107011510.83780.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <436EBC40.4B28@Tomaszewski.net> June Young wrote: > > By looking at it, it appears that it does not use a > lubricant when cutting? Is my observation correct? > Thanks > June > June, Smaller saws have a basin that you fill with lubricant and the bottom of the blade is submerged in the lubricant -- rotation brings it up to the cutting point. Larger saws usually have a pump that sprays lubricant from a pool in the bottom onto the cutting point. Kreigh From tim at orerockon.com Sun Nov 6 18:33:34 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Nov 6 18:34:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw In-Reply-To: <20051107011510.83780.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051104193714.028ed9f8@orerockon.com> <20051107011510.83780.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051106183046.026f5840@orerockon.com> You fill the saw with lubricating oil until about 1 inch of the blade is immersed in oil. Mineral oil will work, but if you cut extremely hard rocks such as some agates and jaspers, ruby in zoisite, and any quartz crystals, you are better off with a lubricating oil such as Shell Pella or Texaco Almag. At 05:15 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote: >By looking at it, it appears that it does not use a >lubricant when cutting? Is my observation correct? >Thanks >June Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Cycadwood at aol.com Sun Nov 6 18:45:01 2005 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 6 18:45:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw Message-ID: <1fa.15121300.30a019ad@aol.com> In a message dated 11/6/2005 7:34:33 PM Mountain Standard Time, tim@orerockon.com writes: You fill the saw with lubricating oil until about 1 inch of the blade is immersed in oil. *****Some of you will get a laugh out of this. I have an old Highland Park 24 inch saw that still cuts beautifully. The problem: it takes 15 gallons of oil to fill the tank enough to reach the blade. I use Almag and since I clean the oil regularly by straining it through a paper bag and because I keep quite a few glass blocks in the tank to take up room, I really do not use much oil on an annual basis - maybe two gallons if I do a lot of cutting (as in hundreds of hours). Frank Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 westerncolopub@aol.com 970.242.5255 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Ferns, Cones, and Cycads and the soon to be released Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Nov 6 19:26:14 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 6 19:20:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology References: Message-ID: <436EC7FF.2544@Tomaszewski.net> Magnetism is defined as magnetic attraction or repulsion. Magnetic behavior can be classified as diamagnetism, paramegnetism, ferromagnetism, antiferromatnetism, ferrimagnetism, or superparamagnetism. In general you just say something exhibits magnetic behavior. For details you can go to http://www.rareearth.org/magnets_magnetism.htm Hope this helps. Kreigh Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > Ferrous comes to mind. Do magnets attract anything non-ferrous? > > Glenn > > From: "Paul" <pbhewitt@comcast.net> > Subject: > [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology > > Date: > Sun, 6 Nov 2005 17:37:55 -0500 > > I have a question about minerals like hematite that are attracted by > magnets. If a material will attract iron based substances it is > deemed "magnetic". Is there a term/word for a material that is > attracted to a magnet? The reason I ask is that I took some > hematite to a club meeting and I wanted a way to label it to show > that it is attracted by a magnet other than saying "sticks to a > magnet". Any ideas? > > Paul > From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Nov 6 20:03:06 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sun Nov 6 20:03:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology References: Message-ID: <005501c5e350$2e8871f0$f91571ce@marilyn> I understand there is a way to build a magnet that will atract non ferous materials. Sent of for instructions to build one but never got around to building it. It was in one of those arcane knowledge ads in popular science several years ago. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:21 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology > Ferrous comes to mind. Do magnets attract anything non-ferrous? > > Glenn > > > > From: "Paul" <pbhewitt@comcast.net> > Subject: > [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology > > Date: > Sun, 6 Nov 2005 17:37:55 -0500 > > I have a question about minerals like hematite that are attracted by > magnets. If a material will attract iron based substances it is > deemed "magnetic". Is there a term/word for a material that is > attracted to a magnet? The reason I ask is that I took some > hematite to a club meeting and I wanted a way to label it to show > that it is attracted by a magnet other than saying "sticks to a > magnet". Any ideas? > > Paul > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Create your own custom mailing list called Groups with MSN Hotmail > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Nov 6 20:55:24 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Nov 6 20:55:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Show announcement with more info Message-ID: The Mobile Rock and Gem Show will be held at the Fairgrounds in Mobile, Alabama on Friday 2-7PM, Saturday 10AM - 7PM, and Sunday 11AM-5PM, Nov 25, 26 & 27. Thats the weekend after Thanksging Day. The fairgrounds are at the intersection of Zeigler Blvd and Cody Rd. We have a full slate of dealers and exhibits for our 11th annual show. There is even going to be a sluice. Demonstrations of cabbing and faceting are planned. Admission is $3.00 for adults. The show is indoors, and RV sites are available at the fairgrounds. Katrina hurt many in nearby areas, but this show is definitely on. And it may be one of few on the Gulf Coast this fall. Ya'll come!!! Glenn Wimpee   ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Create your own custom mailing list called Groups with MSN Hotmail ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Nov 6 21:26:09 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Nov 6 21:23:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw References: <20051107011510.83780.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <436EBC40.4B28@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001101c5e35b$c3b9f400$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> What you say is true for new saws but not for old Highland Park saws. They all have basins or sumps to hold oil for lubricating the blade unless they have been converted at a later date to a pump system. As far as how deep the blade should be within the oil depends somewhat on how large is the saw. Trim saws should have the blade just barely within the oil to prevent excess splashing of oil during trimming operatons. Maybe I missed it but I don't know the size of June's saw. In any event, I like to keep the depth of the saw blade in the oil to a minimum to reduce misting. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw > June Young wrote: > > > > By looking at it, it appears that it does not use a > > lubricant when cutting? Is my observation correct? > > Thanks > > June > > > > June, > > Smaller saws have a basin that you fill with lubricant and the bottom of > the blade is submerged in the lubricant -- rotation brings it up to the > cutting point. > > Larger saws usually have a pump that sprays lubricant from a pool in the > bottom onto the cutting point. > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Nov 6 21:50:30 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Nov 6 21:47:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw References: <20051107011510.83780.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com><436EBC40.4B28@Tomaszewski.net> <001101c5e35b$c3b9f400$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000501c5e35f$2a0201a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I do remember now a pump system on a 24 inch Highland Park saw, but I would be very much surprised if June has that large of a saw. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw > What you say is true for new saws but not for old Highland Park saws. They > all have basins or sumps to hold oil for lubricating the blade unless they > have been converted at a later date to a pump system. > > As far as how deep the blade should be within the oil depends somewhat on > how large is the saw. Trim saws should have the blade just barely within the > oil to prevent excess splashing of oil during trimming operatons. Maybe I > missed it but I don't know the size of June's saw. In any event, I like to > keep the depth of the saw blade in the oil to a minimum to reduce misting. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw > > > > June Young wrote: > > > > > > By looking at it, it appears that it does not use a > > > lubricant when cutting? Is my observation correct? > > > Thanks > > > June > > > > > > > June, > > > > Smaller saws have a basin that you fill with lubricant and the bottom of > > the blade is submerged in the lubricant -- rotation brings it up to the > > cutting point. > > > > Larger saws usually have a pump that sprays lubricant from a pool in the > > bottom onto the cutting point. > > > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Nov 6 22:02:17 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Nov 6 21:59:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw References: <20051107011510.83780.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com><436EBC40.4B28@Tomaszewski.net><001101c5e35b$c3b9f400$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <000501c5e35f$2a0201a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000d01c5e360$cfa3a0e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I reread June's posts, and apparently she has a 14 inch saw. A 14 inch is in all likelihood is sans pump and IMHO, 1 inch is too deep to immerse the blade in the oil. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:50 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw > I do remember now a pump system on a 24 inch Highland Park saw, but I would > be very much surprised if June has that large of a saw. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:26 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw > > > > What you say is true for new saws but not for old Highland Park saws. They > > all have basins or sumps to hold oil for lubricating the blade unless they > > have been converted at a later date to a pump system. > > > > As far as how deep the blade should be within the oil depends somewhat on > > how large is the saw. Trim saws should have the blade just barely within > the > > oil to prevent excess splashing of oil during trimming operatons. Maybe I > > missed it but I don't know the size of June's saw. In any event, I like to > > keep the depth of the saw blade in the oil to a minimum to reduce misting. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 6:36 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw > > > > > > > June Young wrote: > > > > > > > > By looking at it, it appears that it does not use a > > > > lubricant when cutting? Is my observation correct? > > > > Thanks > > > > June > > > > > > > > > > June, > > > > > > Smaller saws have a basin that you fill with lubricant and the bottom of > > > the blade is submerged in the lubricant -- rotation brings it up to the > > > cutting point. > > > > > > Larger saws usually have a pump that sprays lubricant from a pool in the > > > bottom onto the cutting point. > > > > > > Kreigh > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Nov 6 22:45:52 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Nov 6 22:46:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] In response to Bob and In-Reply-To: <035f01c5e0da$e62872b0$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <200511070646.jA76k8KA019497@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi Julie and Kreigh (and others), Thank you for explaining the views of the list admins. I do agree that personally attacking people on this list is bad and shouldn't be acceptable. And thank you for your efforts in maintaining the list. It is much appreciated by all of us. Regards, Bob Loeffler -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Julie Siebel Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 5:59 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] In response to Bob and > Hi Julie, > > Do we really need to impose this new limitation on dealers? Bob...this isn't a NEW limitation if you look back in the archives, it's simply the first time it's been posted as an actual RULE. So the inital poster of the ad (Italian Minerals) did everything right according to the POSTED list rules. Tim objected because of DISCUSSED list rules. What we are trying to do is make these ONE SET OF RULES - lol We (the admin team) for the most part don't mind dealer ads at all. But there are AD lists and there is THIS list, and we're trying to keep this information based...so if dealers want to post 2-3 times per month, all we are asking of them is that they also contribute information in the form of trip reports, responses to questions or general information. That's all. OK, so THAT was Julie-the-admin talking about the new, soon to be posted, list rules. The BIG problem I had was in the personal attacks: Against the Italian mineral guy, whose name escapes me; Tim Ficher, Kitty, Scott, Terrie...etc....and it will only get worse if we don't stop it now... Heck you should see the personal e-mails I received this time and other times about stuff like this. Regarding lurkers...well they are lurkers: They aren't posting so they aren't subject to the posting rules. You asked "Has anything really changed since then?" (THEN being since Aaron was sole admin rather than part of the team...) The answer is NO it hasn't and the rules reflect that. All we are doing is putting into actual rules what has already been discussed numerous times on this list. And again, my only personal problem with this, as an admin, has been the personal attacks involved. If any of our list members want to belong to a list that allows personal attacks - though debating is fine and encouraged - this list isn't it. Thanks HONESTLY for your input. It's always valued and we'll look forward to it when the new list rules are posted (please, God soon ;-) Julie _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Nov 7 01:55:45 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Nov 7 01:55:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cinnabar tea In-Reply-To: <008a01c5e32f$a964a2c0$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: This makes my hair stand upright, Rock ;-))) My daughter will be spending more than a year in China before she graduates. I hope that we won't be able to read the temperature off her when she returns (ROFLMAO) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Rock Currier Verzonden: maandag 7 november 2005 1:10 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Cinnabar tea When I first went to China one of the things I wanted to get were specimens of Cinnabar. And I found them, lots of them, but only crystals on matrix. I could only rarely find a loose crystal. At first I thought it was because they took all the single crystals and glued them back on matrix, which was common. Then I saw a strange little double sided "Richer" mount kind of box and under the little glass window was a pavement of small rectangular cinnabar cleavages. Some boxes had smaller cleavages than other and the larger the cleavages, the more expensive the box.. They were not cheap, about $100 depending on the size of the cleavages. These little cinnabar cleavages were used in the practice of traditional Chinese medicine. I was told you put a single cleavage in tea and then drink the tea. When the cleavage lost its nice red color then the "medicine" was used up and you needed to put in a nice new red cleavage fragment. This "medicine" has apparently been used for hundreds of years for "heart" problems. I guess that the solubility of the cinnabar is really low the harmful effects of mercury poisoning would have long since been noticed. I also learned that cinnabar has a really good cleavage, something that I had not observed from the few crystals I had previously seen. These cleavages and their use is traditional Chinese medicine is another reason that you don't often see single cinnabar crystals for sale. Rock _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Nov 7 02:08:44 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Nov 7 02:08:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals In-Reply-To: <1aa.42c38645.30a004bb@aol.com> Message-ID: >I have a digital Rebel and an old Elan II. Now I know what I want Santa to >bring me. thanks. Gene, I am sorry to inform you that Santa has been shot dead in the London metro. He refused to stop when the police wanted to search his sack that he was carrying over his shoulder. According to an official police spokesman, there was A LOT of PLASTIC found in the sack. So the shooting was justified. The story shows that you really can trust no one these days... Santa carrying plastic... that wouldn't have happened 50 years ago, now would it? (ROFLMAO again) my deepest sympathy for your loss Axel From jabac at hal-pc.org Mon Nov 7 02:32:54 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Mon Nov 7 02:31:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? In-Reply-To: References: <20051106195124.62906.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20051106100830.02476e20@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <436F2D56.7030105@hal-pc.org> J Bryan Kramer wrote: >This thread is about the great divide in personality types. There are people >who believe in the scientific method, the 'show me' people. And there are >folks who don't, the 'I feel it' folks. People from one group will never >convince people from the other group to change allegiance and only hard >feelings will result if you try. So accept the difference and don't debate >it. > I think this list is heavily in group A and any extended thread will begin >to irritate them. > BK > > On 11/6/05, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > >>My personal opinion----not as an Admin Team Member---is that as long as we >>do not have sniping and personal attacks, there is nothing wrong with the >>discussion of beliefs about rocks and minerals. We had such a discussion >>in September 2002 under the topic "What do you believe about rocks?" It >>surfaced again in August of 2004, under the same title. It's something >>that apparently touches all of us at one time and in one way or another. >> >>Aloha, Kitty >> >> >> >> There sure is a big bump in the number of e-mails when something like this gets going LOL. john From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Nov 7 02:34:56 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Nov 7 02:34:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nickel, Cobalt, Neodymium and various alloys. Also: all superconducting materials become responsive to magnetism at sufficiently low temperatures. Even the ceramic ones and the perovskite-derivatives. There's also the term diamagnetic: diamagnetic ? adj. Physics tending to become magnetized in a direction at 180? to the applied magnetic field. ? DERIVATIVES diamagnet n. diamagnetically adv. diamagnetism n. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Glenn Wimpee Verzonden: maandag 7 november 2005 3:22 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology Ferrous comes to mind. Do magnets attract anything non-ferrous? Glenn From: "Paul" <pbhewitt@comcast.net> Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 17:37:55 -0500 I have a question about minerals like hematite that are attracted by magnets. If a material will attract iron based substances it is deemed "magnetic". Is there a term/word for a material that is attracted to a magnet? The reason I ask is that I took some hematite to a club meeting and I wanted a way to label it to show that it is attracted by a magnet other than saying "sticks to a magnet". Any ideas? Paul ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Create your own custom mailing list called Groups with MSN Hotmail ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pbhewitt at comcast.net Mon Nov 7 06:18:21 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Mon Nov 7 06:19:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals References: <013b01c5e33a$f8bea860$6401a8c0@maingear> <436EB9C3.6080306@verizon.net> Message-ID: <007401c5e3a6$1eb323a0$6401a8c0@maingear> DonH, I greatly appreciate your taking the time to check out those scopes and comment on them. You have certainly saved me a good bit of money. You said that Leica makes a good scope and I found a couple that look like they are reasonable. If you (or anyone else) would be so kind to check them out I would value an opinion. They are on this page: http://www.microscopestore.com/usedmicroscopes.asp?c=13&sec=72 items M16 & M 17. Same scope just with and without mechanical stage. Regards, Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals > Paul wrote: > >> Either here; http://www.microscope-depot.com/seriesW.asp?bhcp=1 > From tim at orerockon.com Mon Nov 7 07:26:43 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Nov 7 07:26:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw In-Reply-To: <000d01c5e360$cfa3a0e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <20051107011510.83780.qmail@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <436EBC40.4B28@Tomaszewski.net> <001101c5e35b$c3b9f400$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <000501c5e35f$2a0201a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <000d01c5e360$cfa3a0e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051107071801.026c78a8@orerockon.com> I disagree Jay, having too little oil lubricating a cut is a dangerous practice, especially for beginners such as June. Much less than an inch of oil on a 14" and you run the risk of getting too dry with the cut as the oil thickens up with sludge. It's better to have plenty of oil delivered to the cut and use a good anti-misting additive then to let a single cut go dry; this has lead to the premature demise of many a cheap Chinese blade (and no doubt expensive American blades as well). There is really no practical reason not to have any blade immersed much less than an inch in the lubricant, except for the smallest trim saws. It hurts nothing, and can save you a lot of agony in the long run... At 10:02 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote: >I reread June's posts, and apparently she has a 14 inch saw. A 14 inch is in >all likelihood is sans pump and IMHO, 1 inch is too deep to immerse the >blade in the oil. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From albalmer at att.net Mon Nov 7 08:02:29 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Nov 7 08:02:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Walworth, NY In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <436F7A95.6030201@att.net> Lawrence Bull wrote: > An Excellent Weekend Adventure, Walworth, NY Thank you for the excellent report. It was nostalgic for me, since Walworth was the first trip my wife and I made with the Rochester Mineral Society years ago, and I got to watch Vandall King work half the day on one beautiful fluorite specimen :-) We weren't allowed power equipment of any kind. Was this trip sponsored by the RMS? From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Nov 7 08:33:30 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Nov 7 08:33:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Walworth, NY In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <436F81DA.80705@tenforward.com> Hi Larry, Thank you, thank you, thank you for an absolutely wonderful read this morning!!! With near 400 members in this group, I sure wish these types of quality posts were a lot more common!!! In fact, I haven't enjoyed an email this much since the last great field trip report that was posted here about a week ago. I made my own trip to N.Y., to collect eurypterids, a couple years back and met a collector there who was feral in his appreciation of Walwoth. I felt bad, not having ever heard of the locality (I live in Washington State), and he was horrified. The next day he showed up again, but this time reverently holding a little plastic box, with a folding lid covering a compartmentalized interior. Within was an array of soft blue gemmy fluorites from that most Holy of places. I must admit that the cleaved singles held a bit less power over me then they did him, but what the heck, he was happy and I got to see some neat crystals. Your report offers a scenario much more worthy of the adoration expressed by this fellow... matrix specimens covered in one and two inch glowing cubes set above a pink field of dolomite sound like quite the prize! Thank you again for a terrific report!!! I really appreciate your taking the time. All the very best, John Lawrence Bull wrote: > An Excellent Weekend Adventure, Walworth, NY > > The forecast was ominous on the Friday of Columbus Day Weekend. We > also knew that staying at home in Massachusetts was not going to be > any better and most likely would be much worse. (It was.) > > So we (Ed Norton, Steve Towne and myself) set out for western New York > with the prospect of driving through some really heavy rains. We did. > Nevertheless we made our destination near Rochester, New York > (Fairport, NY) in good time. The drive took about five and half hours > from Shrewsbury, MA to the motel. It really was tough to see at times > and not the best of driving conditions. > > We passed through the cold front near Syracuse, NY and the temperature > promptly dropped some 10 degrees or so in about ten or fifteen miles. > It was now about 50 degrees, cold, damp, raw and windy. We had started > out about 2:00 pm with the temperature at 81 degrees. (The month of > October was never the same after that.) We hoped that the morning > would bring better weather and that we would hopefully just far enough > west to be out of the messy weather. The Weather Channel gave us some > hope with lowering percentages for rain, but there was still a 30% > chance. > > We awoke at 5:40 am to find it was very damp and wet. A very heavy > mist was falling. Although we would definitely need rain gear at least > it was no longer pouring. A good thing. > > We went to breakfast and in short order were on our way to the quarry. > We arrived shortly after 7:00 am and it was just starting to get > light. We made our way through the paperwork line, release signing to > be able to collect. At 7:45 am we had our mandatory safety meeting and > at 8:00 am we headed down into the quarry proper. > > Approximately eighty souls braving the nasty weather but hopeful of > finding some mineral treasures. > > It only took but a few minutes for me to find my first keeper. A > floater selenite specimen about the size of a slightly flattened > softball. I knew the specimen was neat but had no idea just how neat > because it was covered with mud. Back home and once cleaned you could > see it had a window on one side through witch you could see a fluorite > specimen on a matrix of dolomite within. A really nice find. > > I started work on a row of material set out and away from the blast > pile. It proved to be a good decision as there was plenty of rock to > work with plentiful pockets. Some of the pockets held fluorite > crystals. The only negative was the cut off saw, (borrowed from my > son-in-law) just would not cooperate. That has been the fate of each > of the three saws I have used at this quarry. Each time there has been > a different problem. Although one did work for a little while. Once I > got home I was able to start it right up. Go figure. > > The primary benefit of the saw's use is to keep the fluorites on the > matrix. They tend to be very sensitive to hammering nearby and have a > habit of flying off with the least initiative or that one last hammer > blow. On the other even worse is when the crystal cleaves. > > So I was muddling through the AM with the mist finally ceasing about > mid-morning (finally got rid of the rain gear) and slowing > accumulating a number of matrix specimens with fluorite but more loose > crystals for my efforts. > > Near noon it was time for a break to watch a 40 ton or so blast. The > quarry had invited a couple of hundred scouts to watch the blast. So > we along with them got to see the blast. We were all safely positioned > a distance away. We saw the rock lift, flow outward and down. Then > came the dust and finally the noise of the explosions in rapid > succession. It was neat to see live something I have seen on TV a > number of times. > > Next back down into the quarry for more collecting which continued > until shortly after 2:00 pm. We all had to be out of the quarry by > 3:00 pm. So the designed personnel started rounding everyone up with > some significant time cushion. > > Thoughts now turned to a hot shower after some eight hours or so out > on a very raw day. So it was back to the motel for hot showers and > then naturally thoughts turned to food. In this case we had all agreed > that pizza was the item of choice. We found a good pizza place and ate > until full. > > It was now time to relax before bed and some much needed sleep to be > ready to go at it again on Sunday. The day dawned overcast but no rain. > > It was pretty much the same routine on Sunday morning as on Saturday. > The numbers were just about cut in half from Saturday, i.e. about > forty collectors. We were to spend a short time on the right side of > the quarry while the material on the left (the most mineralized and > thus productive area) was moved about and/or turned over. The quarry > person charged with that job was a little late; however, and it was a > couple of hours before we could spread out back to the left side of > the quarry. > > In the mean time some great things were found. I walked around a bit > and ended up on the ramp separating the left from the right sides of > the quarry. It was there that Christmas came early for one collector, > Doug Russell. It was fitting as he had helped a young collector on > Saturday cut out with his saw a very nice specimen of fluorite on > matrix. It won first prize at the dinner on Saturday night. We did see > another better specimen but the collectors did not go to the dinner. > More later about this collector. > > Back to Doug Russell...he attacked a good size boulder which had > previously had a specimen cut from its end. He figured since it had > had one good enough to cut out it might have more within. And therein > he found three pockets with three large killer fluorites crystals all > in the two inch plus range. It was ten years in the making he said but > well worth the wait. > > Previously several good specimens had been recovered from the large > blocks of rock on the ramp which was why I had gone up there. Although > I did not find a treasure to compare with Doug's I did find a nice > matrix specimen with some fourteen fluorite crystals on matrix. The > largest crystal being nearly an inch. I was pleased. Thank you Doug > for your assistance in cutting it out. > > As for Ed and Steve they were collecting as a team. So I went to check > on them and to see how the other collectors were doing who by now had > returned to the left side of the quarry. There were a number of very > happy people there as there were a number of good specimens liberated > from the rocks. Then there was one of the nicest pieces that was > collected by simply turning a rock over. Some people are just really > lucky. It was a matrix specimen with multiple clusters of fluorite. > The largest crystal being about an inch . > > Back to that great specimen I mentioned early that would have won > Saturday night. The couple who collected it were from Ohio. They were > staying at the same motel and maybe two rooms down from us. Their > specimen was one of the nicest I have ever seen from this quarry. It > was a matrix piece about 12" x 8" x 6". The unusual thing was how > nicely the 1" plus blue fluorite was perched on pink dolomite > crystals. Usually the fluorites are on the dolomite rock or very small > dolomite crystals. But these dolomites were a quarter inch plus. The > blue of the fluorite crystal contrasted nicely with the pink dolomite > crystals. The couple did have some problems however on their trip > including their large German Sheppard tearing up the window shades in > their trailer (apparently the dog got a little bored) and the husband > managed to smash his finger as well. Despite these problems they sure > were happy. > > Driving home was uneventful. They way we like it. So it was a good > weekend and a perfect time to have been out of Massachusetts what with > the all the rain and resulting flooding. > > After cleaning and trimming the specimens I can say it was definitely > a good trip. The results were good and next time if I can get a cut > off saw functioning it could even be better. > > Larry Bull > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Mon Nov 7 08:38:54 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Mon Nov 7 08:35:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alabaster & Corrosion In-Reply-To: <436F7A95.6030201@att.net> Message-ID: Hi everyone, I carve large alabaster bowls. Yes I should have 'em up on my website but don't yet. (May be a long yet at that). Anyway in combiantion with water the stuff (Calcium sulphate) is fearfully corrosive on steel tools and machines, eg diamond saw. A friend who does larger architectural work in sandstone and similar (he just did a restoration of the "Union Stairs" of the Philadelphia Union Building) is interested in exploring bigger scale possibilities of the alabaster but is worried about the material's possible corrosion effects on the large tools and machines in his workshop. Does anyone know how large scale alabaster workers deal with this? Or can anyone point me to some person or organization or list or similar where I might find such information? (If anyone wants to see a pic of a bowl email me off-list) Cheers Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From albalmer at att.net Mon Nov 7 08:39:26 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Nov 7 08:39:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051106100830.02476e20@incoming.verizon.net> References: <20051106195124.62906.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20051106100830.02476e20@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <436F833E.6050100@att.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > It's something that apparently touches all of us at one time and in one > way or another. So does the common cold, but that doesn't make it topical on this list. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any clear definition of what is topical here. I hope that the new rules address this. My vote would be for subjects directly related to rock collecting and mineralogy, with metaphysical postings referred to one of the many venues devoted to such. In my opinion, backed by many years of experience with both technical and non-technical electronic venues from BBS's, through Compuserve fora, to Usenet and mailing lists, it is important for a technical forum to exert some effort to keep on topic, and this is the kind of thing the list administrators should be concerned with. It's much more insidious and has worse long-term effects than temporary ill-feelings and name-calling. It is all too easy for a technical list to be corrupted to the point of uselessness by allowing long discussions on every conceivable topic. I estimate that about 75% of the postings in recent days have been about one form or another of magic. If I wanted that sort of thing, I'd go elsewhere. I'd like to hear other opinions on this subject. Discussion of topicality is always on topic. From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Nov 7 08:41:04 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Nov 7 08:40:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) In-Reply-To: <200511062215.jA6MEwwu008202@outmx006.isp.belgacom.be> References: <200511062215.jA6MEwwu008202@outmx006.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <436F83A0.50405@tenforward.com> Hi Rik, Thank you for this excellent posting. I learned a lot from reading it and am very thankful you took the time to share! Also worthy of much praise in your posting is the consideration you showed by mentioning your reference!!! Opinions are thrown around, much too recklessly at times, and I sure do appreciate knowing where your information came from. Thank you again and all the very best, John Rik Dillen wrote: >Dear Timothy, > >The stability of realgar has to do with the formation of pararealgar, AsS. The yellowish powdery deterioration product >of realgar is known for "ages", but was only characterised fully in 1980 by Roberts A.C. et al. ("Pararealgar, a new >polymorph of AsS from British Columbia", Canadian Mineralogist 18, 525-527). > >Some facts : >- the yellowish powdery product is not orpiment, and it also not a mixture of orpiment and arsenolite as has been >thought earlier. >- a simple experiment showed that arsenolite could not be involved. Because arsenolite is an oxide, oxygen would have to >be available to form the product from any sulphide. Fresh realgar crystals were embedded in a transparent resin (ergo in >absence of oxygen), and the yellowish powder was formed anyway. That proved that light was the only factor involved. >- later on, the mineral was characterised by X-ray diffractometry, and its structure was described, and named >"pararealgar". >- further experiments were performed by Douglass et al. in 1992 ("The light-induced alteration of realgar to >pararealgar", Am. Mineral. 77, 1266-1274) >- they found out that only light with a wavelength of 500-600 (that is in the visible part of the spectrum) nm was >effective for the process. UV and IR radiation did not influence the realgar. >- realgar from some localities doesn't show the alteration process at all ; this is due to a stage of the complex >process that is interfered by the presence of another intermediate phase, alpha-AsS >- the mechanism of the alteration process was described by Douglass (1992) >- in the meantime pararealgar was also detected in ancient paintings, on which realgar had been used as a red pigment in >paint. > >To answer your question (in part) : as far as I know pure orpiment as such is stable; it is the realgar that is nearly >always present with orpiment that yields the unstable yellowish powdery alteration product (and for that reason any >orpiment specimen that contains even traces of realgar is also suspect to deterioration). Any light that is rich in >wavelengths between 500 and 600 nm is harmful. > >Greetings, > >Rik DILLEN >Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas >Belgium >E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be >Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > >>>>Belgian minerals >>>>An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>>Exchange list >>>> >>>> > >MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 >Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) >Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen >http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html >Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Timothy Blackwood >Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 3:23 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) > >Hello everyone, > > I have a question about the stability of orpiment and realgar. Are the realgar crystals from >China any more stable in the presence of light than those from Nevada, or other localities? Also, >I have a nice miniature of orpiment from the Twin Creeks Mine, Nevada, as well as another small >cabinet from the old finds in Peru. I've read that orpiment is sometimes considered >light-sensitive. Is this true, or are they more stable? Should exposure to light be avoided? Is >sunlight worse than indoor lighting? Also, what minerals do orpiment and realgar alter too in the >presence of light? Thank you very much in advance and I'll look forward to hearing from you soon. >:) > >Sincerely, >Tim Blackwood > >Timothy J. Blackwood >E-mail: tblackwood1@yahoo.com >Phone: (218)328-6272 >Home Address: >120 N.W. 5th Street Apt. #101 >Cohasset, Minnesota, USA 55721 > > > > >__________________________________ >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Nov 7 08:45:55 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Nov 7 08:45:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Minerals in Morocco In-Reply-To: <009a01c5e337$9d7823d0$6901a8c0@rock3> References: <200511061930.jA6JUEOT012053@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <009a01c5e337$9d7823d0$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <436F84C3.4050201@tenforward.com> Hi Rock, Nothing like having been there! Ya know, it's been an absolute joy having you here on the list sharing your experiences!!! Eagerly I await your postings, knowing they'll be worthy of reading each and every time. Your knowledge and experience and as importantly, your willingness to share, really make you one of the big guys in our hobby! Don't change! All the very best, John Rock Currier wrote: >Mike, > >If you want to buy minerals, the best place to go is Midelt/Mibladen. I lump >them together because Mibladen is a little village a few clicks east? of >Midelt. The village is full of guys who dig specimens from the local base >metal mines. Heavy in vanadinite, barite cerussite, but a lot of them get >stuff from Touissit and other places in Morocco. You can just drive into the >village and people will approach you wanting to know if you want to buy >minerals. You can b ranch out from there. There are also many other dealers >in Midelt. If you go there the main tourist hotel, the one that feeds lunch >to buss loads of tourists on their way to the northern most sand dunes of >the Sahara, has several young guys set up right outside the hotel with >tables full of fossils and minerals to sell. You can probably arrange with >one of them to take you around to all of the dealers for a flat rate per day >or say 5% of what you buy. You need to try and avoid the guys who will take >you only to the dealers that will give him a 20 to 50% kick back on what you >buy. For fossils Erfoud and Risane are probably best and to get there you >pretty much have to go through Midelt. > >It sounds like you are doing mostly the tourist things and hope to beg a day >or two off to chase minerals and fossils. There are other places to go, but >unless you have the time it is not worth going into them. You will get the >most bank for you buck at the above places. If you have more time than two >or three days contact me off line. > >Rock > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Nov 7 09:09:03 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Nov 7 09:09:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) In-Reply-To: <436F83A0.50405@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <200511071709.jA7H94LF026355@outmx026.isp.belgacom.be> Thanks for your kind words. I could do this because accidentally I wrote a short article on the subject a few years ago. And I share your opinion, that too often statements are made without any verification. But even a respectfull magazine like the American Mineralogist is not free from stupidities (I refer e.g. to the "discovery" of texasite years ago, which appeared after one year to be fake !). If you're interested in that story, I can look up the data and report in short on it. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John and Gloria Cornish Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:41 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) Hi Rik, Thank you for this excellent posting. I learned a lot from reading it and am very thankful you took the time to share! Also worthy of much praise in your posting is the consideration you showed by mentioning your reference!!! Opinions are thrown around, much too recklessly at times, and I sure do appreciate knowing where your information came from. Thank you again and all the very best, John Rik Dillen wrote: >Dear Timothy, > >The stability of realgar has to do with the formation of pararealgar, AsS. The yellowish powdery deterioration product >of realgar is known for "ages", but was only characterised fully in 1980 by Roberts A.C. et al. ("Pararealgar, a new >polymorph of AsS from British Columbia", Canadian Mineralogist 18, 525-527). > >Some facts : >- the yellowish powdery product is not orpiment, and it also not a mixture of orpiment and arsenolite as has been >thought earlier. >- a simple experiment showed that arsenolite could not be involved. Because arsenolite is an oxide, oxygen would have to >be available to form the product from any sulphide. Fresh realgar crystals were embedded in a transparent resin (ergo in >absence of oxygen), and the yellowish powder was formed anyway. That proved that light was the only factor involved. >- later on, the mineral was characterised by X-ray diffractometry, and its structure was described, and named >"pararealgar". >- further experiments were performed by Douglass et al. in 1992 ("The light-induced alteration of realgar to >pararealgar", Am. Mineral. 77, 1266-1274) >- they found out that only light with a wavelength of 500-600 (that is in the visible part of the spectrum) nm was >effective for the process. UV and IR radiation did not influence the realgar. >- realgar from some localities doesn't show the alteration process at all ; this is due to a stage of the complex >process that is interfered by the presence of another intermediate phase, alpha-AsS >- the mechanism of the alteration process was described by Douglass (1992) >- in the meantime pararealgar was also detected in ancient paintings, on which realgar had been used as a red pigment in >paint. > >To answer your question (in part) : as far as I know pure orpiment as such is stable; it is the realgar that is nearly >always present with orpiment that yields the unstable yellowish powdery alteration product (and for that reason any >orpiment specimen that contains even traces of realgar is also suspect to deterioration). Any light that is rich in >wavelengths between 500 and 600 nm is harmful. > >Greetings, > >Rik DILLEN >Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas >Belgium >E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be >Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > >>>>Belgian minerals >>>>An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>>Exchange list >>>> >>>> > >MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 >Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) >Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen >http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html >Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Timothy Blackwood >Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 3:23 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) > >Hello everyone, > > I have a question about the stability of orpiment and realgar. Are the realgar crystals from >China any more stable in the presence of light than those from Nevada, or other localities? Also, >I have a nice miniature of orpiment from the Twin Creeks Mine, Nevada, as well as another small >cabinet from the old finds in Peru. I've read that orpiment is sometimes considered >light-sensitive. Is this true, or are they more stable? Should exposure to light be avoided? Is >sunlight worse than indoor lighting? Also, what minerals do orpiment and realgar alter too in the >presence of light? Thank you very much in advance and I'll look forward to hearing from you soon. >:) > >Sincerely, >Tim Blackwood > >Timothy J. Blackwood >E-mail: tblackwood1@yahoo.com >Phone: (218)328-6272 >Home Address: >120 N.W. 5th Street Apt. #101 >Cohasset, Minnesota, USA 55721 > > > > >__________________________________ >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 7 09:15:13 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Nov 7 09:15:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051107171513.68109.qmail@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes, paramagnetic would be the precise scientific term. In everyday usage, though, a material attracted to a magnet is termed "magnetic". If it does the attracting it is "a magnet". Jim Daly --- J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Paramagnetic may be the term you are looking for: > Definition of paramagnetic > > 1. > > Substances having a magnetic > susceptibilitygreater > than 0 are > paramagnetic > . > They are drawn into a magnetic > field. > See also diamagnetic. > > > BK > > On 11/6/05, Paul wrote: > > > > I have a question about minerals like hematite > that are attracted by > > magnets. If a material will attract iron based > substances it is deemed > > "magnetic". Is there a term/word for a material > that is attracted to a > > magnet? The reason I ask is that I took some > hematite to a club meeting > > and > > I wanted a way to label it to show that it is > attracted by a magnet other > > than saying "sticks to a magnet". Any ideas? > > > > Paul > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 7 09:30:50 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Nov 7 09:30:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Angie--Clubs in Indiana In-Reply-To: <20051105201423.62299.qmail@web60825.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20051107173050.75770.qmail@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think Tina covered the clubs near you, but you can get a list of all clubs affiliated with the Midwest Federation in Indiana at www.amfed.org/mwf Jim Daly --- tango juli wrote: > Hi Angie-- > Welcome to the rockhounds list. > there are a couple clubs in Indiana that you might > contact. The 500 Earth Sciences group contact I > think is Nelson Shaffer at the indiana geological > survey in Bloomington. They meet in Indianapolis as > far as I know and do rocks and fossils related > activities. I do not know of a club up near > Zionsville (NE indianapolis), but there is a club up > in Lafayette, near Purdue. > Nelson Shaffer is also a point of contact for the > Midwest Friends of Minerology that meets a couple > times a year in Indiana. > There is a wonderful warm club in Lawrence > County--Bedford, Indiana which is just south of > Bloomington. I think they are the Lawrence County > Rock and Mineral club(not entirely sure of that > title). They are great folks and I highly recommend > you contact them and join the club. They will share > with you all kinds of great places to go rock > collecting in southern Indiana and have lots of kids > in the club too. If you have access to the internet, > you can find these groups or the people in them > online. I just moved from Bloomington a few months > ago, and there wasn't a club in Blgn that I knew of, > but the rock collecting down in bloomington is > awesome. Contact me off list and I'll give you some > localities and maps to get you started. > Tina > tangojuli@yahoo.com > > Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 12:04:24 -0500 > From: Angie > To: afox@drizzle.com > Subject: young rockhounds > > Dear Aaron, > > I am a 11 year old girl in Zionsville, Indiana and I > am interested in > clubs in my area but I can't seem to find any. Any > suggestions? > Zionsville is located just north of Indianapolis but > we are moving to > Bloomington, Indiana in the spring. > > Thanks > > Emma Hopkins > > Message: 23 > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in > one click. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 7 11:03:16 2005 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Nov 7 11:04:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Chisel References: <00a601c5def3$1835ded0$6600a8c0@Emachines> <4367982E.1060006@tenforward.com><03df01c5e039$c5c44860$6600a8c0@Emachines><436A3780.4080808@tenforward.com> <000601c5e14e$e9b8fac0$20844c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <000901c5e3ce$0cfd4460$86864c0c@LarryRush> Baltimore Tool Works has just come out with a new mason's chisel which should prove to be ideal for mineral collecting. It has a 1 3/4 " flat striking surface on a 10" handle which is protected with a polymer cap and a cushioned grip. The cap and grip are designed to minimize shock and hammer kick-back, noise, vibration, and spalling, according to the manufacturer. Best of all, it is only $13 US. It's called the Hard Cap Mason's Chisel. Baltimore tool Works, 800-752-5533, www.hardcap.com (I haven't tried it yet but it sounds pretty good!) Larry Rush From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Nov 7 11:22:57 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Nov 7 11:22:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals In-Reply-To: <007401c5e3a6$1eb323a0$6401a8c0@maingear> References: <013b01c5e33a$f8bea860$6401a8c0@maingear> <436EB9C3.6080306@verizon.net> <007401c5e3a6$1eb323a0$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <436FA991.6080102@verizon.net> Paul wrote: > DonH, > > I greatly appreciate your taking the time to check out those scopes > and comment on them. You have certainly saved me a good bit of money. Paul, I'm glad you found that site--Mel Sobel is an established dealer with a pretty good reputation, and look, even the used equip. has warranties. However that page you displayed has monocular flatfield scopes. The following page has good used stereo scopes. http://www.microscopestore.com/usedmicroscopes.asp?c=13&sec=73 Here are some questions that I suggest you ask, once you read the specs and pick two or three in your price range: 1. Is it fixed-focus or continuous zoom? 2. Does it have a variable diopter eyepiece? (This means you can adjust the focus on at least one eyepiece. It's great for people like me whose eyes are both different; you can adjust the eyepiece so that you don't need to wear your glasses). 3. Does it have adjustable interpupillary distance? (This is good for people like me who have an odd distance between their eyes. In fact, when I buy a binocular scope I MUST make sure it has this adjustment). 4. What is the magnification range? 5. How much working room is there to put rocks? (If you're a heretic like me, you will tend to leave your micros on the rocks in matrix, and you will need the room under the scope. This usually translates into an ability to raise the scope head on a post. Some of them don't have that ability. He will probably understand what you want to do). You can also ask about service, adjustments, lubrication and repair, and terms of the warranty. I just got this message from a satisfied customer on the Microscope group: "If the buyer is in the Metro/NY-LI area, then I would go with Mel Sobel. If not, then I would go with someone more local. I have done business with them. I like them. regards, Jim" My only comment here is that there probably isn't anyone like Mel Sobel near you. There is I. Miller Microscopes in Philadelphia, but their prices are, shall we say, commerically oriented. Old man Miller (RIP) was collector friendly back in the day, but the current administration doesn't seem so. I don't mean to sound pushy, but I'm just excited about someone getting a microscope. In the past year I've hooked up two museums with specialty scopes and it is a satisfying feeling. However, you need to take your time, analyze your budget, and decide what you want to do in the long run. Then pick something that will help you reach that goal. Also, review all the options that have been presented so far. The more minds you have adding input, the better. We've gone a little off the path of photomicrography. I'm not familiar with the model of digi cam that you have, but it just may not be adaptable to a scope. Are you prepared to spend a few hundred more putting together a suitable photo outfit, if necessary? One way or another, we'll hook you up. More later, Don From lanny at lrream.com Mon Nov 7 11:30:45 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Nov 7 11:29:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology In-Reply-To: <00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466> <001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1> <00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com> Hi Paul, So good to see your question on the list. I just got back from the Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous, and found over 200 messages on what is apparently erroneously labeled the "Rockhounds" list. It's nice to see at least a few messages on minerals, fossils and rockhound related items. (Thanks all for letting me bitch, don't know why I bothered though, it doesn't seem to work. but this list is getting less and less attractive and useful.) Back to magnetism. First off, magnetic is the proper mineralogical term for a mineral that is attracted by a magnet. Unless you really want to split hairs, there is no need for para- or other prefix, in fact, if you use a term such as paramagnetic, I'm willing to bet you will just about every mineralogist out there. Secondly, hematite is not magnetic. If it is attracted to a magnet, it has been heated (thus changed and is not really hematite anymore), or it contains inclusions of a magnetic mineral. Regards, Lanny On Nov 6, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Paul wrote: > I have a question about minerals like hematite that are attracted by > magnets. If a material will attract iron based substances it is > deemed "magnetic". Is there a term/word for a material that is > attracted to a magnet? The reason I ask is that I took some hematite > to a club meeting and I wanted a way to label it to show that it is > attracted by a magnet other than saying "sticks to a magnet". Any > ideas? > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockcurrier at cs.com Mon Nov 7 12:20:10 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Nov 7 12:11:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alabaster corrosion References: <200511071715.jA7HFULr008699@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <006201c5e3d8$a7e80910$36e3a5d8@rock5> Hans, My initial feeling when I read your post is that alabaster (a variety of gypsum) should cause no corrosion to the tools that work it any more than wallboard would. Obviously you have had some experience to the contrary. Could you share your experience in the corrosion of tools by the alabaster you work to make your bowls? Where is your alabaster from and what does it look like? Rock From pbhewitt at comcast.net Mon Nov 7 12:13:22 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Mon Nov 7 12:15:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466><001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1><00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> <7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com> Message-ID: <00bc01c5e3d7$b827ff70$6401a8c0@maingear> Lanny, That is an interesting point about hematite not being magnetic. I go to an old iron mine in Morgantown, Pa and find all kinds of things including clumps of a black metallic material. Some of it is magnetic and some is not. The stuff that is magnetic will not attract iron filings so I thought it was hematite and not magnetite (there is magnetite there mostly included in limestone). So if the material is magnetic but not magnetite what could it be? Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology > Hi Paul, > > So good to see your question on the list. I just got back from the Montana > Crystal Collectors Rendezvous, and found over 200 messages on what is > apparently erroneously labeled the "Rockhounds" list. It's nice to see at > least a few messages on minerals, fossils and rockhound related items. > (Thanks all for letting me bitch, don't know why I bothered though, it > doesn't seem to work. but this list is getting less and less attractive > and useful.) > > Back to magnetism. > > First off, magnetic is the proper mineralogical term for a mineral that is > attracted by a magnet. Unless you really want to split hairs, there is no > need for para- or other prefix, in fact, if you use a term such as > paramagnetic, I'm willing to bet you will just about every mineralogist > out there. > > Secondly, hematite is not magnetic. If it is attracted to a magnet, it has > been heated (thus changed and is not really hematite anymore), or it > contains inclusions of a magnetic mineral. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > > > On Nov 6, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Paul wrote: > >> I have a question about minerals like hematite that are attracted by >> magnets. If a material will attract iron based substances it is deemed >> "magnetic". Is there a term/word for a material that is attracted to a >> magnet? The reason I ask is that I took some hematite to a club meeting >> and I wanted a way to label it to show that it is attracted by a magnet >> other than saying "sticks to a magnet". Any ideas? >> >> Paul >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005 > > From danielz at acmenet.net Mon Nov 7 12:29:05 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Mon Nov 7 12:29:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Chisel Message-ID: <000301c5e3d9$e65a8eb0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> The problem with many construction chisels is that they are designed to go through softer material (concrete, wood, etc). Therefore they are hardened to keep a sharp edge. But often when used to try to break hard material, such as rock, they prove to be too brittle, and break. The only way to find out, though, is to try it! -dan z- - - Protect your civil rights! Let the politicians know how you feel. Join or donate to the NRA today! http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Nov 7 12:51:42 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Nov 7 12:51:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) Message-ID: <110720052051.25174.436FBE5E0004978200006256216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Rik, I also enjoyed your good summary of the realgar-pararealgar situation--thanks for posting it, Pete -------------- Original message from "Rik Dillen" : -------------- > Thanks for your kind words. I could do this because accidentally I wrote a short > article on the subject a few years ago. > And I share your opinion, that too often statements are made without any > verification. But even a respectfull magazine > like the American Mineralogist is not free from stupidities (I refer e.g. to the > "discovery" of texasite years ago, > which appeared after one year to be fake !). If you're interested in that story, > I can look up the data and report in > short on it. > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Nov 7 11:14:40 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Nov 7 13:20:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466><001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1><00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> <7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com> Message-ID: <002b01c5e3cf$e8298de0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> From: "Lanny" > I just got back from the > Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous, and found over 200 messages on > what is apparently erroneously labeled the "Rockhounds" list. Lanny, Sorry about the collective brain fart. So how was the Montana Rendezvous? Do tell when you have a chance. I forget your original post - is it always this late in the season? I'd love to check it out next year but it would seem a waste if not combined with some rockhounding. John From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Nov 7 11:22:34 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Nov 7 13:26:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466><001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1><00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> <7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com> Message-ID: <003901c5e3d0$baf75040$6400a8c0@mshome.net> From: "Lanny" > I just got back from the > Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous, and found over 200 messages on > what is apparently erroneously labeled the "Rockhounds" list. Lanny, Sorry about the collective brain fart. So how was the Montana Rendezvous? Do tell when you have a chance. I forget your original post - is it always this late in the season? I'd love to check it out next year but it would seem a waste if not combined with some rockhounding. John From jr50wv at yahoo.com Mon Nov 7 13:30:54 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Nov 7 13:30:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] cameras and close-up photos Message-ID: <20051107213054.11892.qmail@web34611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all: Obviously, the Nikon Coolpix 4500 focuses down to 1 and a half cm. not 1/5 cm, this would be 2 mm, REAL close for a point and shoot camers, my oops! sorry! JR --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Mon Nov 7 13:52:16 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Mon Nov 7 13:52:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466><001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1><00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear><7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com> <00bc01c5e3d7$b827ff70$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <000d01c5e3e5$85fc2f40$78f1edc1@mpc1> I think this is the crux of the issue: A magnet (of whatever persuasion) is, presumably, magnetic, since it will attract, for example, iron filings. But not all lumps of iron are magnets are they? Sure, you can magnetize it and turn it into a magnet. But is there a term - other than magnetic, to describe a lump of non-magnetized material, that, of itself, will not attract stuff even though it has the potential so to do? Mick From lanny at lrream.com Mon Nov 7 14:05:56 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Nov 7 14:04:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology In-Reply-To: <00bc01c5e3d7$b827ff70$6401a8c0@maingear> References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466><001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1><00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> <7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com> <00bc01c5e3d7$b827ff70$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: Hi Paul, All magnetite is magnetic (attracted by a magnet), but only some magnetite naturally acts like a magnet. Thus it is perfectly normal for your unknown to be magnetic, but not attract iron filings. In fact, out of all the magnetite I've found at various locations in the Pacific Northwest, only a few pieces attract iron filings. It is very common in the same deposit for some of the magnetite to be able to attract iron filings (that's the kind called lodestone), and some of it (often most of it) not attract iron filings. There are few dense, black, metallic minerals that are magnetic, so a few other tests (hardness, cleavage, etc.) should help you make this determination. A search of MinDex yielded six references in the mineral journals for Morgantown, and they showed magnetite, calcite, chalcopyrite and malachite as the minerals written about for the mines there. My money is on all your samples being magnetite. Regards, Lanny On Nov 7, 2005, at 12:13 PM, Paul wrote: > Lanny, > > That is an interesting point about hematite not being magnetic. I > go to an old iron mine in Morgantown, Pa and find all kinds of things > including clumps of a black metallic material. Some of it is magnetic > and some is not. The stuff that is magnetic will not attract iron > filings so I thought it was hematite and not magnetite (there is > magnetite there mostly included in limestone). So if the material is > magnetic but not magnetite what could it be? > > Paul > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 2:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology > > >> Hi Paul, >> >> So good to see your question on the list. I just got back from the >> Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous, and found over 200 messages on >> what is apparently erroneously labeled the "Rockhounds" list. It's >> nice to see at least a few messages on minerals, fossils and >> rockhound related items. (Thanks all for letting me bitch, don't know >> why I bothered though, it doesn't seem to work. but this list is >> getting less and less attractive and useful.) >> >> Back to magnetism. >> >> First off, magnetic is the proper mineralogical term for a mineral >> that is attracted by a magnet. Unless you really want to split hairs, >> there is no need for para- or other prefix, in fact, if you use a >> term such as paramagnetic, I'm willing to bet you will just about >> every mineralogist out there. >> >> Secondly, hematite is not magnetic. If it is attracted to a magnet, >> it has been heated (thus changed and is not really hematite anymore), >> or it contains inclusions of a magnetic mineral. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 6, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Paul wrote: >> >>> I have a question about minerals like hematite that are attracted by >>> magnets. If a material will attract iron based substances it is >>> deemed "magnetic". Is there a term/word for a material that is >>> attracted to a magnet? The reason I ask is that I took some >>> hematite to a club meeting and I wanted a way to label it to show >>> that it is attracted by a magnet other than saying "sticks to a >>> magnet". Any ideas? >>> >>> Paul >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: >> 11/5/2005 >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From lanny at lrream.com Mon Nov 7 15:08:52 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Nov 7 15:07:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous In-Reply-To: <002b01c5e3cf$e8298de0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466><001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1><00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> <7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com> <002b01c5e3cf$e8298de0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <3208ceeaa3de299a31845c91f7bd07bd@lrream.com> Hi John, The Rendezvous was very good, as usual. It's small as mineral gatherings go, but the people are nice and friendly, and there are always a lot of mineral discussions and "secrets" shared. Typically the meeting is held in early October. This year it ended up in November because the individual putting it together is a procrastinator and when he got around to finding an available meeting room, he discovered that in Bozeman, MT, there are a lot of meetings in October. Thus, the first Saturday in November was the first available date with for a "cheap" meeting hall. This late date probably did scare off some travelers (I almost didn't go) and it did eliminate a field trip (except maybe for Chris Tucker, and sort of for me). If it wasn't for the fact that I was already going through painful withdrawal symptoms from not being out collecting or attending a mineral meeting of some kind, and here it is just the start of the winter season, I would have stayed home. The thought of having to drive over four mountain passes in the Rocky Mountains with snow in the mountains and rain/snow in the valleys in the forecast for all weekend, just about scared me out of it. It turned out OK, only minor amounts of snow on the roads, and day time highs in the low 40s. We had a nice gathering at Chuck Borland's house on Friday night and looked at his collection. (A lot of nice things, I hadn't known that he was one of those lucky ones who actually got to visit a few good, classic, localities when he was young; I thought he was "a late comer" into collecting minerals). This Friday evening gathering is also a great time to catch up on friendships and talk about the season's collecting. Saturday was the big meeting; the attendance was low, only 16 people, whereas there usually are 35-40. Six people brought specimens to sell. I blew my allowance on three micros from Chris Tucker's adventures underground in the Radersburg District. A new wulfenite locality (James R. Lee Mine, I'd been there in the fog several years ago and saw nothing due to the poor light) provided me with two nice specimens, and the third was a micro vanadinite from his North Home Mine, also in the Radersburg District. I usually take a few flats of minerals to sell, but this year I had found nothing new, and surprisingly, had done well selling last year's material at the FM Symposium, so had nothing worth taking. The talks were good and I learned of a few more localities. The first time slot was spent on hearing from anyone who wanted to tell of their "favorite" collecting location. We heard from five people. For the first time in several years, I was not a speaker at the Rendezvous, so I contributed a story about collecting at a gold mine in Oregon, that produced some good specimens, but because of proprietary information I cannot reveal the mine name or even the district. Chris Tucker gave a talk on the minerals of the James R. Lee Mine. Chuck Borland gave a talk on visiting Joseph Dorris's amazonite digging operations at Crystal Peak area, Colorado. After the banquet, Nancy Greenfield presented a video she worked up on the history of the Montana Crystal Collectors (25th year). We also had an auction, which for the small attendance by a bunch of nice tightwads (i.e., those who have the deep pockets in the group weren't there), we raised quite a lot of money to pay for the meeting hall. I even bought two specimens, a chunk of rock from parts unknown with a thick layer of malachite that should be carvable, and a faceted ametrine to go along with the four crystals in my collection from the ametrine mine. Dinner was a good catered salmon dinner! Not a bad day at all. I'd planned on doing some collecting on Sunday, if at all possible. So I watched the weather closely, the forecast stayed the same (snow in the mountains, rain and snow in the valleys with highs in the low 40s), and with it looking fairly decent, decided to go ahead, but stay in the valleys. The snow started at 200-500 feet above the valley floors in most areas, so access to the many mining districts was not good. I finally decided to look at road cuts, and due to my location, chose the drive up the Madison River from Bozeman to Norris. Nice choice as to the weather, but there were fewer roadcuts than I remembered. I checked out the first one where the highway enters the canyon. There were 4-10 inch wide quartz veins cutting gneiss. Several were in that first cut, but there were no vugs and nothing of interest; only minor biotite (or whichever black mica it was) and rounded feldspar grains. After that, there were no more cuts or other fresh exposures. The only other spot was one I'd looked at before, a cliff near the old bridge location. That's in Phil Walsh's "Rockin' Around Montana" book as a location for apatite (slim chance of any success at finding that). At Norris, I was hoping to go up to the Revenue flats gold mine area SW of town, but the snow was on the flats. Looking for quartz crystals on the ground surface is tough enough in the sparse grass up there, and impossible with snow on it. Digging in a wet dump with the snow/rain mix falling and the temperature probably only about 38-40 degrees up there didn't seem appealing for single quartz crystals either. I drove on. Unfortunately, there were almost no more roadcuts from there to Cardwell and back to I-90. The highway is surrounded by mountains, but it passes through the rolling hills and grass lands. There might be something in some of the sediments in the small roadcuts, but I wasn't in the mood for fossils. Back on I-90, headed west, and pulled off the highway at Homestake Pass (the Continental Divide just east of Butte, for those not familiar with the region) hoping to wonder around in the exposures of the Boulder batholith for smoky quartz pockets in pegmatites, but the snow was too deep. It was already winter up there, around 6 inches deep. It looked like it was sparse around the highway when I drove over on Friday, but was definitely a good covering blanket of snow yesterday. The next thought was to hit one of the mining districts that I know nothing about in the NE corner of the Pioneer Mountains as I drove past Deer Lodge towards Drummond. I'd already found wulfenite and other minerals in the Gold Creek District on the NW corner of the range, so need to keep looking over that area and expand the search. No such luck, the snow level was down to the highway in that area, the mountains looked nicely white. (Nice if you want to go skiing or deer hunting, but not nice for seeing anything on the ground!) I drove on, considered going up to Garnet, but it would have been in the snow too. There was still a little daylight left, so I decided to head up highway 200 from Bonner (just east of Missoula) and see if any roadcuts there looked interesting, slim chance, the rocks are Belt supergroup metasidements, not known for much (except the lead-silver mines in certain locations). Just a couple miles east of I-90 there were a few narrow quartz veins in the greenish gray siltite there. That surprised me, quartz veins are uncommon in the Belt rocks. Unfortunately, there was no parking area near the cut. With it raining (with snowflakes) in that area, I decided to leave it for another time. I don't know about the rest of you, but I noticed a long time ago that when it is raining and thus the rocks are wet, the small cavities in the rock (if there are any) are really difficult to see, and even worse, it's nearly impossible to see if there are any crystals in them. Of course, if there is a large cavity with large crystals, then rain doesn't stop the collecting! I drove on for another 25 miles, and saw nothing of interest, only a few cuts in the metasediments of the Belt rocks, and considering that there is almost nothing in them everywhere else, it wasn't worth exploring in the wet, unless there was something like a quartz vein or two showing. I ended up stopping at a winter sports trailhead and took a hike in the 3-4 inches of snow there, just to get some exercise and enjoy a little wintertime wonder of snow on the trees and brush. Amazing how many animal tracks there were across the trail I hiked, deep, coyote and rabbit. That was it. It was nearly dark, so I drove on to Missoula for the night (not to crazy about driving home in the dark with chances of icy and snowy highways and two more mountain passes to go over). Obviously, I drove home today. The end of the Rendezvous trip for me, and the end of any field work for 2005 for this collector in the northern lattitudes. Regards, Lanny On Nov 7, 2005, at 11:14 AM, John Siebel wrote: > From: "Lanny" >> I just got back from the >> Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous, and found over 200 messages on >> what is apparently erroneously labeled the "Rockhounds" list. > > Lanny, > > Sorry about the collective brain fart. > > So how was the Montana Rendezvous? Do tell when you have a chance. I > forget > your original post - is it always this late in the season? I'd love to > check > it out next year but it would seem a waste if not combined with some > rockhounding. > > John > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From lanny at lrream.com Mon Nov 7 15:20:58 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Nov 7 15:19:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous In-Reply-To: <002b01c5e3cf$e8298de0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466><001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1><00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> <7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com> <002b01c5e3cf$e8298de0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: Hi John, Forgot to include the following in my message about the Rendezvous. The 2006 Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous will be held in Missoula, MT. (The 2007 Rendezvous might be held in Wallace or Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.) It is tentatively planned to be held the last weekend of September or first weekend of October, putting it between the Denver Show and the Friends of Mineralogy Symposium in Kelso, WA in late October, 2006. That should be early enough to allow for a field trip on Sunday. Make plans, everyone is invited, Lanny On Nov 7, 2005, at 11:14 AM, John Siebel wrote: > From: "Lanny" >> I just got back from the >> Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous, and found over 200 messages on >> what is apparently erroneously labeled the "Rockhounds" list. > > Lanny, > > Sorry about the collective brain fart. > > So how was the Montana Rendezvous? Do tell when you have a chance. I > forget > your original post - is it always this late in the season? I'd love to > check > it out next year but it would seem a waste if not combined with some > rockhounding. > > John > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Nov 7 15:26:25 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Nov 7 15:26:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology Message-ID: <110720052326.12639.436FE2A0000E7F080000315F216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> This confusion, about what "magnetic" means, has I know come up before, both in this group online, and in people I've talked to about minerals. It seems that our language is, in fact, lacking a commonly understood term, to mean "something that is magnetized", as opposed to "something that is attracted to a magnet". Both get lumped under the general term, "magnetic". When we say "magnet" we mean only an object that has a net magnetic field, and can attract other objects. Likewise, "magnetized" means having this property, but it has a "made by human action" connotation. There just doesn't seem to be a single good word to refer to a material (natural or human-made), like lodestone, that has a net magnetic field and will attract other objects, as opposed to material that is simply capable of being attracted to a magnet. Is there? At least, in English there doesn't seem to be a good common word for this. Does anyone, perhaps, know of a word(s) that make this distinction better, in other languages, among our multilingual friends on this list? Pete -------------- Original message from "Mick Cooper" : -------------- > I think this is the crux of the issue: A magnet (of whatever persuasion) is, > presumably, magnetic, since it will attract, for example, iron filings. But > not all lumps of iron are magnets are they? Sure, you can magnetize it and > turn it into a magnet. But is there a term - other than magnetic, to > describe a lump of non-magnetized material, that, of itself, will not > attract stuff even though it has the potential so to do? > > Mick > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Mon Nov 7 17:16:45 2005 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Mon Nov 7 17:17:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] texasite? Message-ID: <436FFC7D.6090307@ncmail.net> Rik, I remember something about "texasite" years ago, but I can't remember the details, could you educate me and the list on the story. Thanks Kenny From agesilaus at gmail.com Mon Nov 7 17:37:31 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Nov 7 17:37:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals In-Reply-To: <1aa.42c38645.30a004bb@aol.com> References: <1aa.42c38645.30a004bb@aol.com> Message-ID: That is one specialized lens, here is the Fred Miranda review of it: http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=46&sort=7&cat=2&page=3 It seems to be absolutely a close macro only lens and will not focus at greater than 5 inches (125 mm) BK On 11/6/05, FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > > I have a digital Rebel and an old Elan II. Now I know what I want Santa to > bring me. thanks. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > > > > In a message dated 11/6/2005 9:00:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mike@colellaphoto.com writes: > > Just finished testing a rather fancy & Expensive lens for that very > purpose. It was a Canon 65mm Macro 2.8 with a mag of 5:1. That's right it > enlarges 5x's life size. I used it on a Digital 20D and was amazed with > it's > results. Finer than my Stereoscope, must be close to object and 'Rock' > steady, mirror lock-up is a must. I was shooting sand and the results wee > beautiful. And since it has normal iris like all lenses, stopping down to > f-8 (which tested to be the sharpest aperture) gave me reasonable > depth-of-field, enough to have a whole grain in focus. Something I have > not > been able to do in my Scope. Lens costs $850. > If I get a chance I will post some shots, or contact me off list. > Mike > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From folmstead at rcn.com Mon Nov 7 17:50:49 2005 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Mon Nov 7 17:51:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SAND - Picture Gallery Message-ID: <43700479.5030300@rcn.com> http://www.sandcollectors.org/Picture_Gallex.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From folmstead at rcn.com Mon Nov 7 18:01:52 2005 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Mon Nov 7 18:02:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] INTERNATIONAL SAND COLLECTING PAGE Message-ID: <43700710.1050301@rcn.com> http://www.asapnet.net/suebob/sand.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Nov 7 18:12:27 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Nov 7 18:04:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alabaster & Corrosion References: Message-ID: <4370078F.646C@Tomaszewski.net> Hans, Special Stainless Steel (YST series from Yakota is one example I found in a google search) is used in the handling of gypsum slurry to protect against the corrosion and abrasion caused by handling that material. You could probably find out more talking with a stainless steel supplier or a manufacturer of gypsum based products. I have some experience with plastering (I can even do a lathe wall or ceiling) and I agree that corrosion of steel tools is a real issue. Kreigh Hans Durstling wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > I carve large alabaster bowls. Yes I should have 'em up on my website > but don't yet. (May be a long yet at that). > > Anyway in combiantion with water the stuff (Calcium sulphate) is > fearfully corrosive on steel tools and machines, eg diamond saw. > > A friend who does larger architectural work in sandstone and similar > (he just did a restoration of the "Union Stairs" of the Philadelphia > Union Building) is interested in exploring bigger scale possibilities > of the alabaster but is worried about the material's possible corrosion > effects on the large tools and machines in his workshop. > > Does anyone know how large scale alabaster workers deal with this? Or > can anyone point me to some person or organization or list or similar > where I might find such information? > > (If anyone wants to see a pic of a bowl email me off-list) > > Cheers > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada From mike at colellaphoto.com Mon Nov 7 19:41:21 2005 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Mon Nov 7 20:22:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200511072241752.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466> Gene, just read those reviews and AGREE fully. It's a great lens. Mike -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 8:38 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] viewing/photographing crystals That is one specialized lens, here is the Fred Miranda review of it: http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=46&sort=7&cat=2&p age=3 It seems to be absolutely a close macro only lens and will not focus at greater than 5 inches (125 mm) BK On 11/6/05, FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > > I have a digital Rebel and an old Elan II. Now I know what I want Santa to > bring me. thanks. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > > > > In a message dated 11/6/2005 9:00:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > mike@colellaphoto.com writes: > > Just finished testing a rather fancy & Expensive lens for that very > purpose. It was a Canon 65mm Macro 2.8 with a mag of 5:1. That's right it > enlarges 5x's life size. I used it on a Digital 20D and was amazed with > it's > results. Finer than my Stereoscope, must be close to object and 'Rock' > steady, mirror lock-up is a must. I was shooting sand and the results wee > beautiful. And since it has normal iris like all lenses, stopping down to > f-8 (which tested to be the sharpest aperture) gave me reasonable > depth-of-field, enough to have a whole grain in focus. Something I have > not > been able to do in my Scope. Lens costs $850. > If I get a chance I will post some shots, or contact me off list. > Mike > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Nov 7 20:29:20 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Nov 7 20:29:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] microscope discussion In-Reply-To: <200511080206.jA826KDG028129@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20051108042920.63106.qmail@web60823.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks DonH and Paul (and others) for the convo on microscopes. I want one too for my minerals but am really cautious. I pestered Jim Daly at a show last summer to scope some out for me but didn't feel confident in my knowledge to buy. I definitely want to be able to shoot pics as well, but know that my Fuji won't be much help, and I'm reluctuant to go back to film. So for me, the question is how much will it cost me to get a high end digital w/ appropriate lenses (the Sony 9meg for example) and do I need a stereoscope/microscope separately, or can I find a lense for a new camera that will do the trick. I'm thinking aloud here, but I really enjoy differentiating granites and extrusives (lavas), so can I do that with a stereoscope? (am I using the wrong lingo?) or do I need a certain magnification? Thanks again for sharing the wisdom on this. tina Paul wrote: > DonH, > > I greatly appreciate your taking the time to check out those scopes > and comment on them. You have certainly saved me a good bit of money. Paul, I'm glad you found that site--Mel Sobel is an established dealer with a pretty good reputation, and look, even the used equip. has warranties. However that page you displayed has monocular flatfield scopes. The following page has good used stereo scopes. http://www.microscopestore.com/usedmicroscopes.asp?c=13&sec=73 Here are some questions that I suggest you ask, once you read the specs and pick two or three in your price range: 1. Is it fixed-focus or continuous zoom? 2. Does it have a variable diopter eyepiece? (This means you can adjust the focus on at least one eyepiece. It's great for people like me whose eyes are both different; you can adjust the eyepiece so that you don't need to wear your glasses). 3. Does it have adjustable interpupillary distance? (This is good for people like me who have an odd distance between their eyes. In fact, when I buy a binocular scope I MUST make sure it has this adjustment). 4. What is the magnification range? 5. How much working room is there to put rocks? (If you're a heretic like me, you will tend to leave your micros on the rocks in matrix, and you will need the room under the scope. This usually translates into an ability to raise the scope head on a post. Some of them don't have that ability. He will probably understand what you want to do). You can also ask about service, adjustments, lubrication and repair, and terms of the warranty. I just got this message from a satisfied customer on the Microscope group: "If the buyer is in the Metro/NY-LI area, then I would go with Mel Sobel. If not, then I would go with someone more local. I have done business with them. I like them. regards, Jim" --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Nov 7 21:03:40 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Nov 7 21:03:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral analyses References: Message-ID: <437031A0.1D11@Tomaszewski.net> Do you have an unknown mineral that has been driving you nuts because you still can't identify it after months of study? Would you be willing to give up your morning coffee for a few weeks to know exactly what it is? Would you be willing to sacrifice a small sample to science? This is all that is needed to find the answer. This has got to be the best offer any serious rockhound could get -- access to sophisticated lab analysis at bargain prices. If you have not contacted Jim about doing an analysis of a small sample of your pet 'unknown' there is something wrong. I can't remember meeting a rockhound who didn't have at least one unknown specimen they needed help identifying. I find it amazing that Jim is not overwhelmed with requests. What are you waiting for? You are not going to find a better offer unless you have your own XRD. This is a great deal! Kreigh James Murowchick wrote: > > I don't think this counts as an ad--more a reminder of a service I can > offer to rockhounds. > > Some of you may remember a thread from last Spring about getting samples > analyzed/identified. I offered to perform XRD analyses for minimal cost > (details to be worked out on an individual basis). There were a number of > responses that ranged from "You're nuts!" and "You're going to get swamped > with requests" to genuine inquiries. Surprisingly, to date, I have had only > TWO requests for analyses, both from the same person. > > Since my (and apparently, those of some of you) fears have not come to > pass, I want to make the offer again. If you have a sample that you would > like me to run through the XRD for identification, please contact me. So > far, typical costs are about $10-30/sample. I can also perform optical > examination (determine optical properties, indices of refraction, etc., and > if you want to go whole hog, I might be able to do chemical analyses (by > ICPMS) as well, depending on what you're looking for. ICPMS analyses might > run $40-100/sample, depending on the amount of sample preparation that is > involved. > > The charges for the analyses go toward supplies and maintenance of the > equipment (a replacement X-ray tube costs about $2500), and the samples make > excellent "real-life" problems or examples for my mineralogy and > geochemistry classes. > > Jim > > > Dr. James B. Murowchick > Associate Professor, Mineralogy & Geochemistry > Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall > 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 > 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 > murowchickj@umkc.edu From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Nov 7 21:27:08 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Nov 7 21:27:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineralogical record v 6 n 2 Message-ID: <20051108052708.66606.qmail@web60818.mail.yahoo.com> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Anyone care to sell an old copy of mineralogical record 1975, v 6 n 2? Nothing on ebay, out of print accrdg to publisher. feel free to let me know off list, tangojuli@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Nov 7 21:28:32 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Nov 7 21:27:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] microscope discussion In-Reply-To: <20051108042920.63106.qmail@web60823.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051108042920.63106.qmail@web60823.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43703780.9000401@verizon.net> tango juli wrote: > Thanks DonH and Paul (and others) for the convo on microscopes. > I want one too for my minerals but am really cautious. I am honored to serve. Tempers have been short lately and I was expecting the next post to be "hey people stop talking about microscopes." I'm glad at least one other person is finding this useful. There are TONS of beautiful minerals under the scope. I realize this isn't for everyone and I don't want to shove stereo microscopy down anyone's pants, but I've never known someone to start using a stereo scope and then stop. With me, it all started with a fellow named Harvey Kantor unceremoniously shoving a little micromount box in my hand, to which I said, "what am I supposed to do with this?", to which he replied as he walked away, "buy a microscope so you can look at it." There is always a supply of good, solid, used scopes. In fact, I have received more responses from the members of the Microscope group; there were several recommendations offered from the list to which I put a link earlier. Where do you live Julie? Isn't it Arizona? There may be a real live dealer near you I can recommend. > I definitely want to be able to shoot pics as well, but know that my Fuji won't be much help, > and I'm reluctuant to go back to film. Yes at this point, unless you have a really compelling reason to use film, you might as well stay with digital. A Fuji what model? Don't think you need to get a high-end digital, in fact that might be counterproductive. The little round image in an eyepiece or phototube only requires a certain number of megapixels; what is more important is that you don't have a focusing element that moves in and out (bangs into the equipment) and that it can be adapted to the scope. Also the softweare features of the camera are important, like manual focus, white balancing, and exposure control. If you tell me what exact model you have, I'll ask the Microscope groupies if it is good for adapting to eyepieces. Again, I know a lot more about scopes than I do about using digicams with a scope, but I read each and every one of the many posts these folks make, and there are many choices for the hobbyist. Right now I'll stick with my Nikon Coolpix 5000 since it is currently the budget microscope camera of choice. You can spend $3,000 or more on a new dedicated high-resolution microscope cam & video unit with special software if you want... really it can be that expensive... but I've seen the work some of my boys do with average scopes and mediocre consumer cameras, and one determined trooper managed to photograph the pores of the diatom Amphipleura Pellucida--FYI, these are about the smallest structures resolvable with a light microscope, requiring about 1000-1100x magnification, and if you have the skills to resolve and photograph these, you've got it going on and no one can mess with you. But anyway, I'm not saying you would be likely to win a contest with the setup I've been describing, but you'll take some respectable photos and will be very pleased. > and do I need a stereoscope/microscope separately, or can I find a lense for a new camera that will do the trick. Not sure what you mean by this question; clarify? > I'm thinking aloud here, but I really enjoy differentiating granites and extrusives (lavas), >so can I do that with a stereoscope? (am I using the wrong lingo?) or do I need a certain > magnification? Shoot, you can do that with the naked eye. We had to do that in geology lab. But really, even with 10x you can see some nice features and textures in rocks, and most stereo scopes will take you from about 10x to at least 30x, sometimes 45x, and the more expensive zooms go to about 65-75x or more. The more magnification, the worse depth of field, and the more sense of structure you lose. If I look at you across a field, I see some person. If I stand next to you, I see Julie very clearly. If I stick a strand of your hair up to my eye, I get a good look at your hair, but I lose the sense of who and what Julie is. There are always exceptions and anyone is welcome to disagree, but for the most part, you will see a lot with 10-30x, will see lots more with 30-60x but with decreasing depth of field and decreasing context, and only rarely will you have anything requiring 70x or greater. When I use a research scope, I am looking at thin sections or grains with features so tiny you can't see them with the naked eye, and you can never get the whole feature in focus at once due to poor depth of field. That's not fun, that's work. So don't dwell too much on how much magnification you can get. Refer to my previous post to Paul on what features to seek. If you are really interested in getting a scope, we can talk more off-list. That goes for anyone else who is interested and is still reading. Best, Don From BNMJEFF at aol.com Tue Nov 8 03:22:43 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 03:22:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? Message-ID: In a message dated 11/7/2005 11:41:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, albalmer@att.net writes: it is important for a technical forum to exert some effort to keep on topic, and this is the kind of thing the list administrators should be concerned with. It's much more insidious and has worse long-term effects than temporary ill-feelings and name-calling. It is all too easy for a technical list to be corrupted to the point of uselessness by allowing long discussions on every conceivable topic. Main Entry: rock hound Function: noun 1 : a specialist in geology 2 : an amateur rock and mineral collector That is one of 5 definitions found on Internet dictionaries for "rockhound" all listed essentially the same definition, and all included the word amateur or hobby in the definition. If this list is in fact a "technical forum" then your point is valid, but unless the rules state that it is such, then us "amateurs" have a voice and a right to broach subjects as well. "My vote would be for subjects directly related to rock collecting and mineralogy, with metaphysical postings referred to one of the many venues devoted to such." Are you excluding discussion of how rocks and minerals are used in daily life in this "vote"? If so then quite a few threads on this board in the past would not have been allowed. Metaphysics (not the con game aspect but the theory and practice) is a use of rocks and minerals and should have a valid place here. I am not advocating making the list a metaphysical clearinghouse, but threads that contain valid information should be allowed. That would be my "vote" Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From cscrystals2 at verizon.net Tue Nov 8 05:13:45 2005 From: cscrystals2 at verizon.net (Carolyn Weinberger) Date: Tue Nov 8 05:16:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] microscope discussion In-Reply-To: <20051108042920.63106.qmail@web60823.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051108042920.63106.qmail@web60823.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It's not that difficult to rig an adapter to use a digital camera through the eyepiece of a microscope. Take some pvc tubing that will fit over the eyepiece of both the microscope and the camera. You may have to put a couple pieces together to fit both. Then, put the adapter over the eyepiece, turn the camera on so the lens extends and slip it into the other end of the adapter. You can adjust focus using the microscope. It's a trial and error thing, but with digital you can easily trash your rejects. On Nov 7, 2005, at 11:29 PM, tango juli wrote: > Thanks DonH and Paul (and others) for the convo on microscopes. I > want one too for my minerals but am really cautious. I pestered Jim > Daly at a show last summer to scope some out for me but didn't feel > confident in my knowledge to buy. > > I definitely want to be able to shoot pics as well, but know that > my Fuji won't be much help, and I'm reluctuant to go back to film. > So for me, the question is how much will it cost me to get a high > end digital w/ appropriate lenses (the Sony 9meg for example) and > do I need a stereoscope/microscope separately, or can I find a > lense for a new camera that will do the trick. > > I'm thinking aloud here, but I really enjoy differentiating > granites and extrusives (lavas), so can I do that with a > stereoscope? (am I using the wrong lingo?) or do I need a certain > magnification? > Thanks again for sharing the wisdom on this. > tina > > > Paul wrote: > >> DonH, >> >> I greatly appreciate your taking the time to check out those scopes >> and comment on them. You have certainly saved me a good bit of money. >> > > > Paul, > > I'm glad you found that site--Mel Sobel is an established dealer > with a > pretty good reputation, and look, even the used equip. has warranties. > > However that page you displayed has monocular flatfield scopes. The > following page has good used stereo scopes. > > http://www.microscopestore.com/usedmicroscopes.asp?c=13&sec=73 > > Here are some questions that I suggest you ask, once you read the > specs > and pick two or three in your price range: > > 1. Is it fixed-focus or continuous zoom? > > 2. Does it have a variable diopter eyepiece? (This means you can > adjust the focus on at least one eyepiece. It's great for people like > me whose eyes are both different; you can adjust the eyepiece so that > you don't need to wear your glasses). > > 3. Does it have adjustable interpupillary distance? (This is good for > people like me who have an odd distance between their eyes. In fact, > when I buy a binocular scope I MUST make sure it has this adjustment). > > 4. What is the magnification range? > > 5. How much working room is there to put rocks? (If you're a heretic > like me, you will tend to leave your micros on the rocks in matrix, > and > you will need the room under the scope. This usually translates > into an > ability to raise the scope head on a post. Some of them don't have > that > ability. He will probably understand what you want to do). > > You can also ask about service, adjustments, lubrication and > repair, and > terms of the warranty. > > I just got this message from a satisfied customer on the Microscope > group: > > "If the buyer is in the Metro/NY-LI area, > then I would go with Mel Sobel. If not, > then I would go with someone more local. > > I have done business with them. > I like them. > > regards, > Jim" > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From buff1 at ptd.net Tue Nov 8 05:31:07 2005 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Tue Nov 8 05:31:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] microscope discussion In-Reply-To: <20051108042920.63106.qmail@web60823.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051108042920.63106.qmail@web60823.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4370A89B.4060906@ptd.net> tango juli wrote: >Thanks DonH and Paul (and others) for the convo on microscopes. I want one too for my minerals but am really cautious. I pestered Jim Daly at a show last summer to scope some out for me but didn't feel confident in my knowledge to buy. > >I definitely want to be able to shoot pics as well, but know that my Fuji won't be much help, and I'm reluctuant to go back to film. So for me, the question is how much will it cost me to get a high end digital w/ appropriate lenses (the Sony 9meg for example) and do I need a stereoscope/microscope separately, or can I find a lense for a new camera that will do the trick. > >I'm thinking aloud here, but I really enjoy differentiating granites and extrusives (lavas), so can I do that with a stereoscope? (am I using the wrong lingo?) or do I need a certain magnification? >Thanks again for sharing the wisdom on this. >tina > > > This is a personal preferance that I am relating to you, but; I would recommend dealing with absolute clarity for microscopes. They are not going to "market" you just to make a sale and their prices are very much in line. I have a nice southern precision instruments model 1891 stereo microscope from them that has 10x and 30 x and really does a nice job. They do NOT recommend using a camera adapter on a stereo microscope as they feel you can knock it out of alignment; but personally I feel if you can make an adaptive tripod configuration to take the weight out of the camera this problem may be overcome. Absolute clarity recommends a trinocular microscope to adapt a camera through the singular straight lens. This again, may seem like a marketing ploy, but, they have a point, that if you are going to do something you should do it well. I dont think it is going to matter too much anymore what type of camera you use although the nikon coolpix has become somewhat of a standard by which others are judged. All this having been said, probably the ultimate setup would be an SLR digital camera with 5-8 megapix and a trinocular microscope and an adapter and some lenses... bringing your total to somewhere around $2k. I think personally I am going to try to circumnavigate the costs and make do with my stereo scope and work around the concerns with my extremely meager HP715 digital camera by way of an F adapter available on ebay for about $30 and build a supporting device for the camera. I may be out $30 when I see the results, but better than $2k that I would probably only be able to recover half the cost if I dont use it or am not happy with it. and I am sure there 100 opinions to the left of this and 100 opinions to the right of this.... in the end it will be YOUR decision and your opportunities that come into play.... Dennis From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Tue Nov 8 06:34:39 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 06:34:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alabaster & Corrosion Message-ID: <3954CEF7.75FFE64C.02180873@aol.com> I would expect solutions of alabaster (calcium sulfate) to be somewhat acidic, despite the fact that it is only sparingly soluble in water. The acidity would accelerate corrosion of ordinary iron and steel. One might address this by adding a buffering agent to any water used to push the pH to the mildly alkaline side. Something like sodium acetate or sodium carbonate (use sparingly since it will make a solution of pH 9 or 10 alone)comes to mind. Use pH papers (or better yet a pH meter if you have one) and shoot for something between 7 and 9. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 8 07:21:17 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Nov 8 07:21:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] microscope discussion In-Reply-To: <4370A89B.4060906@ptd.net> Message-ID: <20051108152117.69590.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > I > dont think it is going to matter too much anymore > what type of camera > you use although the nikon coolpix has become > somewhat of a standard by > which others are judged. The only thing to watch out for with regard to the camera is to be sure to get one that will permit an adaptor to couple the camera to the eyepiece of the scope. Some digital cameras have a lens that is flush with the front of the camera, so there's no place to connect an adaptor. In this respect, Nikon is a good choice. Jim Daly __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 8 07:32:31 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Nov 8 07:32:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineralogical record v 6 n 2 In-Reply-To: <20051108052708.66606.qmail@web60818.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20051108153231.80017.qmail@web34311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> David Shannon Minerals had one on their list dated last Jan. Might check if they still have it. E-mail Colleen at dshannonminerals@cs.com or snail mail at 6649 E. Rustic Dr. Mesa, AZ 85215 Jim Daly --- tango juli wrote: > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Anyone care to sell an old copy of mineralogical > record 1975, v 6 n 2? > Nothing on ebay, out of print accrdg to publisher. > feel free to let me know off list, > tangojuli@yahoo.com > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in > one click. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From albalmer at att.net Tue Nov 8 07:51:32 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Nov 8 07:51:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4370C984.4090501@att.net> BNMJEFF@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 11/7/2005 11:41:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > albalmer@att.net writes: > > it is important for a technical forum to > exert some effort to keep on topic, and this is the kind of thing the > list administrators should be concerned with. It's much more insidious > and has worse long-term effects than temporary ill-feelings and > name-calling. It is all too easy for a technical list to be corrupted to > the point of uselessness by allowing long discussions on every > conceivable topic. > > > Main Entry: rock hound > Function: noun > 1 : a specialist in geology > 2 : an amateur rock and mineral collector > > That is one of 5 definitions found on Internet dictionaries for "rockhound" > all listed essentially the same definition, and all included the word amateur > or hobby in the definition. If this list is in fact a "technical forum" then > your point is valid, but unless the rules state that it is such, then us > "amateurs" have a voice and a right to broach subjects as well. You seem to somehow equate "technical" with "professional." I do not. By "technical" forum, I mean one which is not devoted to politics, magic, psychology, or other "soft" subjects. > > "My vote would > be for subjects directly related to rock collecting and mineralogy, with > metaphysical postings referred to one of the many venues devoted to such." > > Are you excluding discussion of how rocks and minerals are used in daily > life in this "vote"? I don't know what you mean by that. If your "daily life" includes praying to the quartz crystal you collected, or soaking sulfur in water to cure cancer, then yes, I would exclude it. If you mean the use of rocks and minerals to produce jewelry, that's a gray area that should be discussed. > If so then quite a few threads on this board in the past > would not have been allowed. Yes. The last week or so has produced many examples of such. >Metaphysics (not the con game aspect but the theory > and practice) is a use of rocks and minerals and should have a valid place > here. I am not advocating making the list a metaphysical clearinghouse, but > threads that contain valid information should be allowed. That would be my > "vote" For many, there is a question as to whether any such threads can contain valid information. It's not a subject I wish to argue, but once again, I will point out that there are many other venues which are better suited for discussions of metaphysics, and where it will not cause controversy. Anyone truly interested in such subjects will find no lack of kindred spirits elsewhere. From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Tue Nov 8 07:55:24 2005 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (mp44sturm-rocks@yahoo.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 07:55:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineralogical record v 6 n 2 In-Reply-To: <20051108052708.66606.qmail@web60818.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20051108155525.24635.qmail@web34212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Julie, How soon do you need that copy of the Mineralogical Record? If you can wait a while, then there is a way that you can set up preferences on eBay on My eBay. First, sign in. Do the search on eBay for the Mineralogical Record. Then, if you look on the right side of the page toward the top, you will see a link that says "Add to Favorite Searches". Click on that link Then, up at the top you will see "Buy Sell My eBay Community Help". Click on the "My eBay" tab at the top of the webpage. Once you do that, you will see a page that says at the top "Add To My Favorite Search". Go down the page and you will see that the radial choice button defaults you to "Create a New Search". Then, go furthur down the page and you will see that there's a window that allows you to name the search. After you decide on a name for the search, go furthur down. You will then see a check box next to "Email me daily whenever there are new items for the following period:" Go the the right of that and designate the time period for which you want eBay to send you emails to alert you to new eBay items that have met your search criteria. Bingo! You'll be notified of new items that meet your search criteria. I have mine set to let me know if there are new specimens listed from a favorite merchant and other searches for equestrian clothing for my growing daughter. A nice feature. I regularly shop on eBay and am pretty agile with it to the point that my husband jokes and says to friends: "Sandra found and bought me off of eBay." Hope this helps. Sandra B. Gee, MD --- tango juli wrote: > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Anyone care to sell an old copy of mineralogical > record 1975, v 6 n 2? > Nothing on ebay, out of print accrdg to publisher. > feel free to let me know off list, > tangojuli@yahoo.com > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in > one click. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pbhewitt at comcast.net Tue Nov 8 07:54:42 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Tue Nov 8 07:55:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] microscope discussion References: <20051108152117.69590.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005901c5e47c$bd75d1a0$6401a8c0@maingear> I have a fujifilm finepix s5000. It has a lens that moves in and out but also a lens tube that accepts 55mm filters. That is how I have been able to get some nice closeup shots with magnifier filters. It should also be adaptable to a microscope. The s9000 has a 1cm macro mode and I would LOVE to have it but they are around $900 and I cant justify spending that kind of long green. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] microscope discussion > > >> I >> dont think it is going to matter too much anymore >> what type of camera >> you use although the nikon coolpix has become >> somewhat of a standard by >> which others are judged. > The only thing to watch out for with regard to the > camera is to be sure to get one that will permit an > adaptor to couple the camera to the eyepiece of the > scope. Some digital cameras have a lens that is flush > with the front of the camera, so there's no place to > connect an adaptor. In this respect, Nikon is a good > choice. > Jim Daly > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.12.8/162 - Release Date: 11/5/2005 > > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Nov 8 08:06:22 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Nov 8 08:06:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous In-Reply-To: <3208ceeaa3de299a31845c91f7bd07bd@lrream.com> References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466><001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1><00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> <7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com> <002b01c5e3cf$e8298de0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <3208ceeaa3de299a31845c91f7bd07bd@lrream.com> Message-ID: <4370CCFE.4000401@tenforward.com> Hi Lanny, Welcome back home! Thanks so much for a report on the Montana Crystal Collectors gathering. Too bad the weather did not cooperate for you. At least you were able to enjoy the company of good friends! I truly wish I'd been there! I enjoyed reading that the next two gatherings are going to be a little closer to home for me. Maybe next year... All the very best and again, thank you for your report. Take care, John Lanny wrote: > Hi John, > > The Rendezvous was very good, as usual. It's small as mineral > gatherings go, but the people are nice and friendly, and there are > always a lot of mineral discussions and "secrets" shared. > > Typically the meeting is held in early October. This year it ended up > in November because the individual putting it together is a > procrastinator and when he got around to finding an available meeting > room, he discovered that in Bozeman, MT, there are a lot of meetings > in October. Thus, the first Saturday in November was the first > available date with for a "cheap" meeting hall. > > This late date probably did scare off some travelers (I almost didn't > go) and it did eliminate a field trip (except maybe for Chris Tucker, > and sort of for me). If it wasn't for the fact that I was already > going through painful withdrawal symptoms from not being out > collecting or attending a mineral meeting of some kind, and here it is > just the start of the winter season, I would have stayed home. The > thought of having to drive over four mountain passes in the Rocky > Mountains with snow in the mountains and rain/snow in the valleys in > the forecast for all weekend, just about scared me out of it. It > turned out OK, only minor amounts of snow on the roads, and day time > highs in the low 40s. > > We had a nice gathering at Chuck Borland's house on Friday night and > looked at his collection. (A lot of nice things, I hadn't known that > he was one of those lucky ones who actually got to visit a few good, > classic, localities when he was young; I thought he was "a late comer" > into collecting minerals). This Friday evening gathering is also a > great time to catch up on friendships and talk about the season's > collecting. > > Saturday was the big meeting; the attendance was low, only 16 people, > whereas there usually are 35-40. Six people brought specimens to sell. > I blew my allowance on three micros from Chris Tucker's adventures > underground in the Radersburg District. A new wulfenite locality > (James R. Lee Mine, I'd been there in the fog several years ago and > saw nothing due to the poor light) provided me with two nice > specimens, and the third was a micro vanadinite from his North Home > Mine, also in the Radersburg District. I usually take a few flats of > minerals to sell, but this year I had found nothing new, and > surprisingly, had done well selling last year's material at the FM > Symposium, so had nothing worth taking. > > The talks were good and I learned of a few more localities. The first > time slot was spent on hearing from anyone who wanted to tell of their > "favorite" collecting location. We heard from five people. For the > first time in several years, I was not a speaker at the Rendezvous, so > I contributed a story about collecting at a gold mine in Oregon, that > produced some good specimens, but because of proprietary information I > cannot reveal the mine name or even the district. Chris Tucker gave a > talk on the minerals of the James R. Lee Mine. Chuck Borland gave a > talk on visiting Joseph Dorris's amazonite digging operations at > Crystal Peak area, Colorado. After the banquet, Nancy Greenfield > presented a video she worked up on the history of the Montana Crystal > Collectors (25th year). We also had an auction, which for the small > attendance by a bunch of nice tightwads (i.e., those who have the deep > pockets in the group weren't there), we raised quite a lot of money to > pay for the meeting hall. I even bought two specimens, a chunk of rock > from parts unknown with a thick layer of malachite that should be > carvable, and a faceted ametrine to go along with the four crystals in > my collection from the ametrine mine. Dinner was a good catered salmon > dinner! Not a bad day at all. > > I'd planned on doing some collecting on Sunday, if at all possible. So > I watched the weather closely, the forecast stayed the same (snow in > the mountains, rain and snow in the valleys with highs in the low > 40s), and with it looking fairly decent, decided to go ahead, but stay > in the valleys. The snow started at 200-500 feet above the valley > floors in most areas, so access to the many mining districts was not > good. I finally decided to look at road cuts, and due to my location, > chose the drive up the Madison River from Bozeman to Norris. Nice > choice as to the weather, but there were fewer roadcuts than I > remembered. I checked out the first one where the highway enters the > canyon. There were 4-10 inch wide quartz veins cutting gneiss. Several > were in that first cut, but there were no vugs and nothing of > interest; only minor biotite (or whichever black mica it was) and > rounded feldspar grains. After that, there were no more cuts or other > fresh exposures. The only other spot was one I'd looked at before, a > cliff near the old bridge location. That's in Phil Walsh's "Rockin' > Around Montana" book as a location for apatite (slim chance of any > success at finding that). > > At Norris, I was hoping to go up to the Revenue flats gold mine area > SW of town, but the snow was on the flats. Looking for quartz crystals > on the ground surface is tough enough in the sparse grass up there, > and impossible with snow on it. Digging in a wet dump with the > snow/rain mix falling and the temperature probably only about 38-40 > degrees up there didn't seem appealing for single quartz crystals > either. I drove on. Unfortunately, there were almost no more roadcuts > from there to Cardwell and back to I-90. The highway is surrounded by > mountains, but it passes through the rolling hills and grass lands. > There might be something in some of the sediments in the small > roadcuts, but I wasn't in the mood for fossils. > > Back on I-90, headed west, and pulled off the highway at Homestake > Pass (the Continental Divide just east of Butte, for those not > familiar with the region) hoping to wonder around in the exposures of > the Boulder batholith for smoky quartz pockets in pegmatites, but the > snow was too deep. It was already winter up there, around 6 inches > deep. It looked like it was sparse around the highway when I drove > over on Friday, but was definitely a good covering blanket of snow > yesterday. > > The next thought was to hit one of the mining districts that I know > nothing about in the NE corner of the Pioneer Mountains as I drove > past Deer Lodge towards Drummond. I'd already found wulfenite and > other minerals in the Gold Creek District on the NW corner of the > range, so need to keep looking over that area and expand the search. > No such luck, the snow level was down to the highway in that area, the > mountains looked nicely white. (Nice if you want to go skiing or deer > hunting, but not nice for seeing anything on the ground!) > > I drove on, considered going up to Garnet, but it would have been in > the snow too. There was still a little daylight left, so I decided to > head up highway 200 from Bonner (just east of Missoula) and see if any > roadcuts there looked interesting, slim chance, the rocks are Belt > supergroup metasidements, not known for much (except the lead-silver > mines in certain locations). Just a couple miles east of I-90 there > were a few narrow quartz veins in the greenish gray siltite there. > That surprised me, quartz veins are uncommon in the Belt rocks. > Unfortunately, there was no parking area near the cut. With it raining > (with snowflakes) in that area, I decided to leave it for another > time. I don't know about the rest of you, but I noticed a long time > ago that when it is raining and thus the rocks are wet, the small > cavities in the rock (if there are any) are really difficult to see, > and even worse, it's nearly impossible to see if there are any > crystals in them. Of course, if there is a large cavity with large > crystals, then rain doesn't stop the collecting! I drove on for > another 25 miles, and saw nothing of interest, only a few cuts in the > metasediments of the Belt rocks, and considering that there is almost > nothing in them everywhere else, it wasn't worth exploring in the wet, > unless there was something like a quartz vein or two showing. I ended > up stopping at a winter sports trailhead and took a hike in the 3-4 > inches of snow there, just to get some exercise and enjoy a little > wintertime wonder of snow on the trees and brush. Amazing how many > animal tracks there were across the trail I hiked, deep, coyote and > rabbit. > > That was it. It was nearly dark, so I drove on to Missoula for the > night (not to crazy about driving home in the dark with chances of icy > and snowy highways and two more mountain passes to go over). > Obviously, I drove home today. The end of the Rendezvous trip for me, > and the end of any field work for 2005 for this collector in the > northern lattitudes. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > On Nov 7, 2005, at 11:14 AM, John Siebel wrote: > >> From: "Lanny" >> >>> I just got back from the >>> Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous, and found over 200 messages on >>> what is apparently erroneously labeled the "Rockhounds" list. >> >> >> Lanny, >> >> Sorry about the collective brain fart. >> >> So how was the Montana Rendezvous? Do tell when you have a chance. I >> forget >> your original post - is it always this late in the season? I'd love >> to check >> it out next year but it would seem a waste if not combined with some >> rockhounding. >> >> John >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From BNMJEFF at aol.com Tue Nov 8 08:07:04 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 08:07:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? Message-ID: <1c0.355a9842.30a22728@aol.com> Dear anonymous person, I do not equate "technical" with "professional", but I do consider what you want this list to be a technical list, dealing with absolutes and no "grey areas". There has to be room for new ideas and alternative ways of thinking in any forum, and in any science. > Are you excluding discussion of how rocks and minerals are used in daily > life in this "vote"? I don't know what you mean by that. I am not surprised that you took the meaning of the question wrong especially after seeing the direction you took your response. I do not pray to crystals nor do I use them to cure illness. If you have read my other posts, I have given the benefit of the doubt to anyone who gets relief or a response from them, including my own mother. By "daily life" I meant the abundant use of minerals in everything we use. And how the searches, etc for minerals affect our daily lives. Hopefully that will clear the question up for you. "If you mean the use of rocks and minerals to produce jewelry, that's a gray area that should be discussed." Why is this grey? jewelry is a valid use of minerals and stones, and if someone on this list can pass on information about new developments in "faux" stones or minerals that collectors should watch out for, more power to them. Tips on handling minerals, etc when cutting are valid as well. "For many, there is a question as to whether any such threads can contain valid information. It's not a subject I wish to argue, but once again, I will point out that there are many other venues which are better suited for discussions of metaphysics, and where it will not cause controversy." There can most certainly be valid information passed along in "such threads", even in the form of warnings, such as Michael mentioned. This list is a source of information, even to metaphysically bent people. If a warning about the actual dangerous properties of a mineral can help one person, then "such threads" are worth it. Jeff (not an anonymous person) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From danz at acmenet.net Tue Nov 8 08:05:36 2005 From: danz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Tue Nov 8 08:13:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [AD] Mineralogical Record magazine set Message-ID: <000501c5e47e$425a3ef0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> All issues from Volume 1 Number 1 through 1998. All in excellent condition. In fact the last few years are still in unopened plastic mailing envelopes. $1000 plus actual shipping. Dan Zabriskie Many Facets Rock Shop Albany, NY www.manyfacets.com From Denise.Weber at ww-p.org Mon Nov 7 11:57:28 2005 From: Denise.Weber at ww-p.org (Weber Denise) Date: Tue Nov 8 08:13:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Teachers seeking cheap geodes Message-ID: Hello. . . we are seeking to purchase about 400 inexpensive geodes to give to our classes of students. Can you recommend a site that offers real geodes for inexpensive prices? Sincerely, Denise Weber denise.weber@ww-p.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Tue Nov 8 08:29:28 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Tue Nov 8 08:17:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question Message-ID: <008401c5e481$97829a00$757ba118@feldsparflash> To the List: Is it wise to use antifreeze as a lubricant for a cutting saw? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Nov 8 08:26:37 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Nov 8 08:26:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) In-Reply-To: <200511071709.jA7H94LF026355@outmx026.isp.belgacom.be> References: <200511071709.jA7H94LF026355@outmx026.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <4370D1BD.3030005@tenforward.com> Hi Rik, Your words definitely smack of truth. We (they) can only do our collective best, but in the end, we're all only human! Regarding texasite, I'm unaware of this particular intrigue and would welcome your sharing your thoughts on this as on all subjects. You and many of the others here on the list are sharp as a tack, I'm not... but I can learn! Thanks for taking the time! All the very best, John Rik Dillen wrote: >Thanks for your kind words. I could do this because accidentally I wrote a short article on the subject a few years ago. >And I share your opinion, that too often statements are made without any verification. But even a respectfull magazine >like the American Mineralogist is not free from stupidities (I refer e.g. to the "discovery" of texasite years ago, >which appeared after one year to be fake !). If you're interested in that story, I can look up the data and report in >short on it. >Greetings, > >Rik DILLEN >Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas >Belgium >E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be >Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > >>>>Belgian minerals >>>>An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>>Exchange list >>>> >>>> > >MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 >Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) >Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen >http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html >Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John and Gloria >Cornish >Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 5:41 PM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) > >Hi Rik, > >Thank you for this excellent posting. I learned a lot from reading it >and am very thankful you took the time to share! > >Also worthy of much praise in your posting is the consideration you >showed by mentioning your reference!!! Opinions are thrown around, much >too recklessly at times, and I sure do appreciate knowing where your >information came from. > >Thank you again and all the very best, > >John > >Rik Dillen wrote: > > > >>Dear Timothy, >> >>The stability of realgar has to do with the formation of pararealgar, AsS. The yellowish powdery deterioration product >>of realgar is known for "ages", but was only characterised fully in 1980 by Roberts A.C. et al. ("Pararealgar, a new >>polymorph of AsS from British Columbia", Canadian Mineralogist 18, 525-527). >> >>Some facts : >>- the yellowish powdery product is not orpiment, and it also not a mixture of orpiment and arsenolite as has been >>thought earlier. >>- a simple experiment showed that arsenolite could not be involved. Because arsenolite is an oxide, oxygen would have >> >> >to > > >>be available to form the product from any sulphide. Fresh realgar crystals were embedded in a transparent resin (ergo >> >> >in > > >>absence of oxygen), and the yellowish powder was formed anyway. That proved that light was the only factor involved. >>- later on, the mineral was characterised by X-ray diffractometry, and its structure was described, and named >>"pararealgar". >>- further experiments were performed by Douglass et al. in 1992 ("The light-induced alteration of realgar to >>pararealgar", Am. Mineral. 77, 1266-1274) >>- they found out that only light with a wavelength of 500-600 (that is in the visible part of the spectrum) nm was >>effective for the process. UV and IR radiation did not influence the realgar. >>- realgar from some localities doesn't show the alteration process at all ; this is due to a stage of the complex >>process that is interfered by the presence of another intermediate phase, alpha-AsS >>- the mechanism of the alteration process was described by Douglass (1992) >>- in the meantime pararealgar was also detected in ancient paintings, on which realgar had been used as a red pigment >> >> >in > > >>paint. >> >>To answer your question (in part) : as far as I know pure orpiment as such is stable; it is the realgar that is nearly >>always present with orpiment that yields the unstable yellowish powdery alteration product (and for that reason any >>orpiment specimen that contains even traces of realgar is also suspect to deterioration). Any light that is rich in >>wavelengths between 500 and 600 nm is harmful. >> >>Greetings, >> >>Rik DILLEN >>Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas >>Belgium >>E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be >>Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >> >> >> >> >>>>>Belgian minerals >>>>>An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>>>Exchange list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 >>Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) >>Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen >>http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html >>Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Timothy Blackwood >>Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 3:23 PM >>To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >>Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about realgar and orpiment. : ) >> >>Hello everyone, >> >> I have a question about the stability of orpiment and realgar. Are the realgar crystals from >>China any more stable in the presence of light than those from Nevada, or other localities? Also, >>I have a nice miniature of orpiment from the Twin Creeks Mine, Nevada, as well as another small >>cabinet from the old finds in Peru. I've read that orpiment is sometimes considered >>light-sensitive. Is this true, or are they more stable? Should exposure to light be avoided? Is >>sunlight worse than indoor lighting? Also, what minerals do orpiment and realgar alter too in the >>presence of light? Thank you very much in advance and I'll look forward to hearing from you soon. >>:) >> >>Sincerely, >>Tim Blackwood >> >>Timothy J. Blackwood >>E-mail: tblackwood1@yahoo.com >>Phone: (218)328-6272 >>Home Address: >>120 N.W. 5th Street Apt. #101 >>Cohasset, Minnesota, USA 55721 >> >> >> >> >>__________________________________ >>Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >>http://mail.yahoo.com >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Tue Nov 8 08:30:30 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Tue Nov 8 08:30:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? References: <1c0.355a9842.30a22728@aol.com> Message-ID: <0deb01c5e481$bc1fec50$6402a8c0@remains> I hardly think Al Balmer is an "anonymous" person to this list. I understand where Al is coming from, and I tend to agree more with him. What you propose is, in my opinion (if I understand what you have been saying) just plain silly...and would open up this list to discussion on virtually ANY subject...as long as somewhere distantly down the line it related to minerals. As it stands now, off-topic postings are commonly made...quite often with the words "off-topic" even in the subject line. This passes as permissible on this list!! At the end of the day, what does it matter? You, or I, nor Al Balmer are not list moderators. As I have stated before, I would love to see the banning of certain topics....but that type of idea doesn't sit too well with certain members of this list. This list is what it is....it is better moderated than 1 or 2 of the lists I am on where name calling and fighting happens multiple times on a daily basis, but it is also a complete joke when compared to other lists that I am on.....where 50% of these postings wouldn't be tolerated more than once, and people would be warned, timed out, and then banned completely for their misbehaviour. But, as I said, the list is not mine, so ultimately it will run in accordance with the wishes of the moderators. If they choose to allow private discussions onlist, discussions of religion and politics and other off-topic postings, or anything else....then that's their decision. In the end, if someone posts something regarding "water witches" because water is a mineral, and is on-topic, then perhaps I will post something about how when I was 4 years old I once poured salt on a slug....salt being a mineral, of course, and completely on-topic...having of course to do with the toxicity of salt........ seems on topic to me! (name typed below) Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 9:07 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? > > > Dear anonymous person, > > I do not equate "technical" with "professional", but I do consider what > you > want this list to be a technical list, dealing with absolutes and no "grey > areas". There has to be room for new ideas and alternative ways of > thinking in > any forum, and in any science. > > >> Are you excluding discussion of how rocks and minerals are used in daily >> life in this "vote"? > > I don't know what you mean by that. > I am not surprised that you took the meaning of the question wrong > especially after seeing the direction you took your response. I do not > pray to > crystals nor do I use them to cure illness. If you have read my other > posts, I have > given the benefit of the doubt to anyone who gets relief or a response > from > them, including my own mother. By "daily life" I meant the abundant use > of > minerals in everything we use. And how the searches, etc for minerals > affect our > daily lives. Hopefully that will clear the question up for you. > > "If you mean the use of > rocks and minerals to produce jewelry, that's a gray area that should be > discussed." > > Why is this grey? jewelry is a valid use of minerals and stones, and if > someone on this list can pass on information about new developments in > "faux" > stones or minerals that collectors should watch out for, more power to > them. > Tips on handling minerals, etc when cutting are valid as well. > > "For many, there is a question as to whether any such threads can contain > valid information. It's not a subject I wish to argue, but once again, I > will point out that there are many other venues which are better suited > for discussions of metaphysics, and where it will not cause controversy." > > There can most certainly be valid information passed along in "such > threads", even in the form of warnings, such as Michael mentioned. This > list is a > source of information, even to metaphysically bent people. If a warning > about > the actual dangerous properties of a mineral can help one person, then > "such > threads" are worth it. > > Jeff (not an anonymous person) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Tue Nov 8 08:51:35 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Tue Nov 8 08:48:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question In-Reply-To: <008401c5e481$97829a00$757ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: It is not. Automotive antifreeze is reputed to be toxic. RV antifreeze is reputed to be safe but not authoritatively enough to give me the confidence to use it. Cheers Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada On Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > To the List: Is it wise to use antifreeze as a lubricant for a > cutting saw? > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From BNMJEFF at aol.com Tue Nov 8 09:01:58 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 09:02:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? Message-ID: <211.da41635.30a23406@aol.com> Michael, I am glad you know Al, but I don't and just as a matter of courtesy, names should be added to the emails. Even Kitty, who I am sure every one knows, signs her emails. As far as what I said, I am not surprised you would consider it silly. From previous off list discussions we have had, I am not surprised at all. I was NOT proposing that any subject "somewhere distantly down the line" would be acceptable. I am sorry if I didn't communicate what I was saying clearly. I think that a topic if relates to minerals on a 1st or 2nd generation should be allowed. It would have to have some bearing on minerals, etc. Your example of your torturing a slug is a prime example of overboard and over the top reactions to topics, especially this one. once again, common sense needs to come into play. As you said at the end of the day, what does it matter? the list is like TV is a sense, you don't like a program change the channel. here, you don't like a topic, DELETE it.....simple enough. Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BNMJEFF at aol.com Tue Nov 8 09:03:09 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 09:03:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question Message-ID: It is not a good idea at all. The mist generated will carry the carcinogens into the air and your lungs. Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Tue Nov 8 09:34:59 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Tue Nov 8 09:23:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question References: Message-ID: <000f01c5e48a$beaf0c90$757ba118@feldsparflash> Thank you Hans and Jeff, One of our members had his own shop at home and it seems he had been using anti-freeze for a number of years having been told it was ok to use. It is not a problem now for him, as he is 87 and no longer cutting. His health demands he find a home for all his lapidary equipment, rough , slabs, etc. His wife 86 now has lung cancer, she was a non-smoker. Club members have been gathering his stuff to a central storage so we can clean and sort and prepare for an auction(s). When I saw the number of antifreeze containers in his shop, I questioned the use. I am a mineral collector, feldspars, so not always up on lapidary concerns. But I believe it was on this list it was mentioned some time back. Perhaps a really good list of materials with comment on toxicity would good to post for lapidary. As an artist and retired art teacher I have been in contact with too many toxic substances. It can happen to one very easily. Another concern which must be almost everyones concern. As collectors of minerals, fossils, lapidary etc. sooner or later we must find good caretakers for the materials we place value upon. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question > It is not. Automotive antifreeze is reputed to be toxic. RV antifreeze > is reputed to be safe but not authoritatively enough to give me the > confidence to use it. > > Cheers > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > > To the List: Is it wise to use antifreeze as a lubricant for a > > cutting saw? > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Tue Nov 8 09:27:26 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Tue Nov 8 09:23:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As an afterthought on the subject of saw lubricants, has anyone tried an Esso oil called "Cutwell 45"? A number of people who do cutting hereabouts say it has much less odor than Pella and yields a smoother cut. I haven't tried it myself and would be interested in hearing assessments from others who may have. Cheers again Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada On Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 01:03 PM, BNMJEFF@aol.com wrote: > It is not a good idea at all. The mist generated will carry the > carcinogens > into the air and your lungs. > > > Jeff > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Nov 8 09:40:33 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Tue Nov 8 09:37:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question References: <008401c5e481$97829a00$757ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <001101c5e48b$85dbf8a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> No, absolutely not. It is very much hazardous to your health. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Reynard" To: "Rockhounds" Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 8:29 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question To the List: Is it wise to use antifreeze as a lubricant for a cutting saw? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Tue Nov 8 10:07:41 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Tue Nov 8 10:07:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? References: <211.da41635.30a23406@aol.com> Message-ID: <5f5b01c5e48f$4fb75b80$6402a8c0@remains> 2nd generation? who decides that? you? and who stops it when it deteriorates from there? my slug example is a lot more ON TOPIC than a lot of past discussions on this list have been......including one a few years back concerning camels and "ass sucking".....all of which was started by "2nd generation" postings..... and the point is NOT to delete posts I may not like...the point is to have clearly written rules, specific rules, about what is on-topic, and what is not. What is acceptable discussion, and what is not. To have consequences for off-topic or inappropriate posts that are understood by ALL on the list...and when the rules are violated to have the consequences enforced. If people don't like the rules, or the enforcement of the rules, they can unsubscribe. But to have anyone post nearly anything they like simply because THEY feel it is related to the collecting of minerals, IS RIDICULOUS. And don't for a moment think that I don't include myself in this group. I have made many posts that were inappropriate/off topic as a response to someone else's, or because my back was up. The distinction is, I understand what I am doing and know it's wrong/inappropriate/off-topic.....if not when I am posting it, then surely soon after. Should I be "reprimanded" for these postings? yes....you're damned right I should be reprimanded for some of them. Sometimes I am, sometimes not. When I am politely asked by one of the list administrators (off-list) to "cease and desist"...I do. So long as the same request has been made to anyone else involved in the same "discussion", I have no problem abiding by the requests of those in charge. However, when the absence of clearly defined rules (or netiquette) means that virtually ANYTHING is postable, and whatever rules there may be are not being followed (with no apparent consequences), then why should I play by the rules??? At the end of the day, it matters not to me what you think of me or my opinions. We don't even come close to seeing eye to eye on this. All I know is that there are few boundaries to this list....and I think a few should be set up so we don't have discussions about politics, religion, or any others OFF TOPIC things that someone can peripherally (2nd generation) relate to mineral collecting. Then I wouldn't have to delete email after email about water witching...... Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? > Michael, I am glad you know Al, but I don't and just as a matter of > courtesy, names should be added to the emails. Even Kitty, who I am sure > every one > knows, signs her emails. > > As far as what I said, I am not surprised you would consider it silly. > From > previous off list discussions we have had, I am not surprised at all. > > I was NOT proposing that any subject "somewhere distantly down the line" > would be acceptable. I am sorry if I didn't communicate what I was saying > clearly. I think that a topic if relates to minerals on a 1st or 2nd > generation > should be allowed. It would have to have some bearing on minerals, etc. > Your > example of your torturing a slug is a prime example of overboard and over > the > top reactions to topics, especially this one. once again, common sense > needs to > come into play. > > As you said at the end of the day, what does it matter? the list is like > TV > is a sense, you don't like a program change the channel. here, you don't > like > a topic, DELETE it.....simple enough. > > > Jeff > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From albalmer at att.net Tue Nov 8 10:17:29 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Nov 8 10:17:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? In-Reply-To: <211.da41635.30a23406@aol.com> References: <211.da41635.30a23406@aol.com> Message-ID: <4370EBB9.1010409@att.net> BNMJEFF@aol.com wrote: > Michael, I am glad you know Al, but I don't and just as a matter of > courtesy, names should be added to the emails. Even Kitty, who I am sure every one > knows, signs her emails. Have you bothered looking at the "sender" line? I'm quite sure Mozilla displays it, since Thunderbird (one of its derivatives) does. Actually, I usually do have a signature block, but I've recently switched to Portable Thunderbird and haven't yet determined whether it's possible to record sig blocks on a relative path. Current input from the developers seems to be negative, but it may change in a future version. I don't consider it important enough to manually add a sig block on every message. > > As far as what I said, I am not surprised you would consider it silly. From > previous off list discussions we have had, I am not surprised at all. > > I was NOT proposing that any subject "somewhere distantly down the line" > would be acceptable. I am sorry if I didn't communicate what I was saying > clearly. I think that a topic if relates to minerals on a 1st or 2nd generation > should be allowed. It would have to have some bearing on minerals, etc. Your > example of your torturing a slug is a prime example of overboard and over the > top reactions to topics, especially this one. once again, common sense needs to > come into play. You don't seem to understand that for some of us, magic crystals and mineral-aided faith healing are just as "distantly down the line" as salting a slug. > > As you said at the end of the day, what does it matter? the list is like TV > is a sense, you don't like a program change the channel. here, you don't like > a topic, DELETE it.....simple enough. > A common refrain, often extended even to completely off topic spam. The point is not individual messages, the point is that off-topic threads dilute the list, and eventually lead to its decline. I've seen it happen many times. It doesn't take many weeks of deleting 80% of the posts because they are off-topic before it's easier to just unsubscribe, and unfortunately, it's usually the best contributors who are the first to leave. From albalmer at att.net Tue Nov 8 10:23:42 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Nov 8 10:23:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question In-Reply-To: <008401c5e481$97829a00$757ba118@feldsparflash> References: <008401c5e481$97829a00$757ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <4370ED2E.6050200@att.net> Carolyn Reynard wrote: > To the List: Is it wise to use antifreeze as a lubricant for a cutting saw? > I'd say it depends on your circumstances, your saw, and what you consider wise. For a small saw, antifreeze will provide some lubrication and prevent rusting. However, the common auto antifreeze, ethylene glycol, is toxic, especially to animals who may like its taste. The "pink stuff" antifreeze (propylene glycol), used in RVs, is non-toxic, but neither is really a very effective lubricant. What size is your saw, and what do you use it for? From danielz at acmenet.net Tue Nov 8 10:26:34 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Tue Nov 8 10:26:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Possible scam References: <8C7AC562D7EF585-1E9C-8F3@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com><001b01c5de5e$51204a90$6402a8c0@remains> <8C7AC79EA08E740-1454-3D46D@FWM-R28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001a01c5e491$f360ded0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Dave, We'll be coming down I-81 to Tennessee sometime between Monday and Wednesday next week, and back again at the end of the week. Each time we'll be staying overnight somewhere in Greencastle, PA. Would you like us to bring anything for you? -dan z- Many Facets Albany, NY From BNMJEFF at aol.com Tue Nov 8 10:31:51 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 10:31:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? Message-ID: We do see eye to eye in the fact that there do need to be rules that govern content. See that wasn't so hard. Maybe instead of venting at me, you should direct your desire for strict rules and guidelines to the list moderators not me. Because it would be up to them to decide what is appropriate for topics, not me ass you assume I meant. "then why should I play by the rules???" Because they are the rules, no matter how vague and lacking you think they are. To go by your logic of not playing by the rules cause no one else is, does that mean it is ok to speed, not stop at stop signs, or any other crime that is lightly treated by society? Seems like that is how your logic leads. "At the end of the day, it matters not to me what you think of me or my opinions. " same applies to me..I still sleep at night knowing we disagree.... Hoping your deleting finger heals up soon, Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Tue Nov 8 10:40:50 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Nov 8 10:40:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4370F132.60308@att.net> BNMJEFF@aol.com wrote: > It is not a good idea at all. The mist generated will carry the carcinogens > into the air and your lungs. Ethylene glycol is bad stuff, but not carcinogenic (you might be thinking of ethylene oxide?). Here's an MSDS: http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/e5125.htm Incidentally, MSDS data for most anything can be found easily by just typing msds in Google. From BNMJEFF at aol.com Tue Nov 8 10:52:21 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 10:52:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? Message-ID: Dear Al, "Have you bothered looking at the "sender" line? I'm quite sure Mozilla displays it, since Thunderbird (one of its derivatives) does." I am on AOL and all it shows is the senders email address, and while your, a rarity, is your name, many many peoples, does not. I do understand the point that some consider metaphysics (why do always use that as your only example??) to be as far down the line as slug torture. The point is, in my mind, until there are the strict rigid rules that Michael wants, then some common ground has to be there, and if that means that peoples varied determination of what is on or off topic have to be infringed upon, then unfortunately that will have to be. With no rules, it is up to the list moderators not us to determine what is acceptable as ON topic. Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Nov 8 09:05:15 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Nov 8 11:08:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADMIN List Rules References: Message-ID: <009501c5e486$a36ff060$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Julie has the old web site information and is busy updating, including new List rules. When she's done Aaron will announce and post this information. Please be patient as this is a lot of work. John Siebel Admin Team From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Tue Nov 8 11:34:35 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Tue Nov 8 11:34:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? References: Message-ID: <5f9501c5e49b$73866ae0$6402a8c0@remains> " until there are the strict rigid rules that Michael wants" Never did the words "strict or rigid" leave my fingertips.....that's your opinion of rules that are standard on a great many lists that are out there...many with very large memberships. To say that certain postings should be off topic, and for you to call that a "strict, rigid" rule is simply naive. I don't want strict, rigid rules. What I want is what a normal, educated person (someone familiar with how these lists work) would think are FAIR rules, clearly spelled out for all to see. Rules that reflect the majority of the list membership's wants and needs. If when these rules are created, and I don't agree with them, then it is my choice to either put up with what I don't like, or unsubscribe. If you are talking about my comments regarding the consequences that some lists have for breaking the rules, ie: email warnings, timeouts, and eventual banishments for repeat offender...if you are saying that those consequences are rigid and strict, then all I can really do is shake my head....because those actions are completely fair, and it's just the dumb PC attitudes that are prevalent in society today that make people think they have no responsibility for their actions...and that any "punishment", no matter how mild, is a crime in itself.. Michael From pbhewitt at comcast.net Tue Nov 8 11:41:16 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Tue Nov 8 11:42:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? References: <5f9501c5e49b$73866ae0$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <010801c5e49c$639cd1e0$6401a8c0@maingear> People .... I am a pretty patient person and no stranger to the delete button but even I am getting tired of all of this. Please drop the subject or take it private. I get enough spam as it is. Paul in Marietta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schmidt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? > > > " until there are the strict rigid rules that Michael wants" > > Never did the words "strict or rigid" leave my fingertips.....that's your > opinion of rules that are standard on a great many lists that are out > there...many with very large memberships. To say that certain postings > should be off topic, and for you to call that a "strict, rigid" rule is > simply naive. I don't want strict, rigid rules. What I want is what a > normal, educated person (someone familiar with how these lists work) would > think are FAIR rules, clearly spelled out for all to see. Rules that > reflect the majority of the list membership's wants and needs. If when > these rules are created, and I don't agree with them, then it is my choice > to either put up with what I don't like, or unsubscribe. > > If you are talking about my comments regarding the consequences that some > lists have for breaking the rules, ie: email warnings, timeouts, and > eventual banishments for repeat offender...if you are saying that those > consequences are rigid and strict, then all I can really do is shake my > head....because those actions are completely fair, and it's just the dumb > PC attitudes that are prevalent in society today that make people think > they have no responsibility for their actions...and that any "punishment", > no matter how mild, is a crime in itself.. > > Michael > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 8 11:42:28 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Nov 8 11:42:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051108194229.30180.qmail@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Automotive antifreeze is definitely toxic. RV antifreeze is not harmful if ingested in small quantities. Inhalation of mists might well be a different story, though. Jim Daly --- Hans Durstling wrote: > It is not. Automotive antifreeze is reputed to be > toxic. RV antifreeze > is reputed to be safe but not authoritatively enough > to give me the > confidence to use it. > > Cheers > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Carolyn > Reynard wrote: > > > To the List: Is it wise to use antifreeze as a > lubricant for a > > cutting saw? > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Nov 8 11:49:23 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Nov 8 11:48:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] microscope discussion In-Reply-To: <005901c5e47c$bd75d1a0$6401a8c0@maingear> References: <20051108152117.69590.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <005901c5e47c$bd75d1a0$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <43710143.5090804@verizon.net> Paul wrote: > I have a fujifilm finepix s5000. It has a lens that moves in and out > but also a lens tube that accepts 55mm filters. Oh my. I looked it up and saw what a big fat lens it has. With the macro feature, you may be able to zoom in on a widefield eyepiece and get a decent-sized image. As Gene suggested, you can gte a small tripod or copy stand, and use a piece of black plastic tubing as a light shroud, and hold the camera over the eyepiece. I did something like that with my Coolpix 990 when I took my first shots through the eyepiece; I said, "this isn't going to be any good," but I was surprised at how decent they were. FYI--don't get trapped into "technical one-upmanship." You have a fine camera there. The industry needs to entice you to buy the next big thing so they can stay in business, but there are people who are taking wonderful images with 10-year-old cameras. There's no hurry; the $900 camera you buy today will be on eBay for $300 next year. The camera doesn't make you a photographer; the practice makes you a photographer. Besides, if you have your heart set on viewing micro material, your first step needs to be a scope. Just to make things more confusing, be aware that most, if not all, consumer digitals are not designed for microscopy. In fact, once someone figured out that the Nikon 9xx series cameras were easily adaptible to a microscope, Nikon was inundated with requests for tech support, and then complaints about the lens quality in later models, to the point where they officially disavowed the use of their cameras for photomicrography. Onthe plus side, you get instant feedback. On the down side, you need to do some work, sometimes a lot of work, to make it happen satisfactorily. Right now, the best investment of your time and money might be to attend a meeting of a micromount group or, better yet, a micromount symposium. I'm trying to help the best I can, but there is no substitute for seeing different scopes, seeing who has what camera rig, and maybe holding your camera up to the eyepieces of different scopes to see what you can see. If I'm not mistaken (someone jump in here) the next symposium nearest to you will be in April in the Baltimore, MD, area. These are wonderful experiences. Best, Don From tim at orerockon.com Tue Nov 8 10:08:27 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Nov 8 11:53:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051108095755.0273a220@orerockon.com> It sounds like the equivalent Standard Oil product, the name of which escapes me at the moment. Richardson's Ranch has switched to that product and is very happy with the reduced odor and better lubricating properties. If you can find it, go for it! At 09:27 AM 11/8/2005, you wrote: >As an afterthought on the subject of saw lubricants, has anyone >tried an Esso oil called "Cutwell 45"? A number of people who do >cutting hereabouts say it has much less odor than Pella and yields a >smoother cut. I haven't tried it myself and would be interested in >hearing assessments from others who may have. > >Cheers again >Hans Durstling >Moncton, Canada Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From agesilaus at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 11:53:58 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Nov 8 11:54:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question In-Reply-To: <000f01c5e48a$beaf0c90$757ba118@feldsparflash> References: <000f01c5e48a$beaf0c90$757ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: It is not a carcinogen, it contains Ethylene Glycol which just plain render you Dead Right There, so if your dream is to be found dead at your saw then, have at it. (A bit of hyperbole, but it is a poison and in the news too, some radio announce just used it to kill his wife) BK On 11/8/05, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > Thank you Hans and Jeff, One of our members had his own shop at home and > it > seems he had been using anti-freeze for a number of years having been told > it was ok to use. It is not a problem now for him, as he is 87 and no > longer > cutting. His health demands he find a home for all his lapidary equipment, > rough , slabs, etc. His wife 86 now has lung cancer, she was a non-smoker. > Club members have been gathering his stuff to a central storage so we can > clean and sort and prepare for an auction(s). > > When I saw the number of antifreeze containers in his shop, I questioned > the > use. I am a mineral collector, feldspars, so not always up on lapidary > concerns. But I believe it was on this list it was mentioned some time > back. > Perhaps a really good list of materials with comment on toxicity would > good > to post for lapidary. > > As an artist and retired art teacher I have been in contact with too many > toxic substances. It can happen to one very easily. > > Another concern which must be almost everyones concern. As collectors of > minerals, fossils, lapidary etc. sooner or later we must find good > caretakers for the materials we place value upon. > > Carolyn Reynard > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hans Durstling" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 11:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question > > > > It is not. Automotive antifreeze is reputed to be toxic. RV antifreeze > > is reputed to be safe but not authoritatively enough to give me the > > confidence to use it. > > > > Cheers > > Hans Durstling > > Moncton, Canada > > > > > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > > > > To the List: Is it wise to use antifreeze as a lubricant for a > > > cutting saw? > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BNMJEFF at aol.com Tue Nov 8 11:58:20 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 11:58:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? Message-ID: <1a8.436c77c0.30a25d5c@aol.com> You're entire 2nd paragraph is a joke, Michael. Once again you are on the PC soapbox. Never did I say anything regarding unfair consequences, nor did I say no one should bear the responsibility for the actions or postings. I agree with you that the rules need to be enforced and that if the rules and guidelines are fair then the list is worth belonging to. So shake your head all you want to, because I never said or implied anything you think I did. As for the strict and rigid comments, Those words were taken by you as having a bad connotation, but they were not meant that way. I went to 12 years of parochial school and the nuns were strict and rigid, but it was for the good of the students and it was good for the students. It taught discipline. Strict and rigid rules are what you want, if you want the rules that are there to be enforced. Maybe if I had said the strict and rigid "enforcement" of the rules, you would have gotten the point. Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Tue Nov 8 12:25:29 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Nov 8 12:25:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? In-Reply-To: <5f5b01c5e48f$4fb75b80$6402a8c0@remains> References: <211.da41635.30a23406@aol.com> <5f5b01c5e48f$4fb75b80$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051108101950.024d5d60@incoming.verizon.net> Dear Michael and List, New rules have been written and Julie and Aaron are working---probably at this very moment---to have them ready for everyone to view ASAP. There have been some technical difficulties getting accounts set up and switched. Once they are posted we fully expect some people will have comments, which will be welcome, especially if they are thoughtful and constructive. Aloha, Kitty At 08:07 AM 11/8/2005, you wrote: >2nd generation? who decides that? you? and who stops it when it >deteriorates from there? > >my slug example is a lot more ON TOPIC than a lot of past discussions on >this list have been......including one a few years back concerning camels >and "ass sucking".....all of which was started by "2nd generation" >postings..... > >and the point is NOT to delete posts I may not like...the point is to have >clearly written rules, specific rules, about what is on-topic, and what is >not. What is acceptable discussion, and what is not. To have >consequences for off-topic or inappropriate posts that are understood by >ALL on the list...and when the rules are violated to have the consequences >enforced. If people don't like the rules, or the enforcement of the rules, >they can unsubscribe. But to have anyone post nearly anything they like >simply because THEY feel it is related to the collecting of minerals, IS >RIDICULOUS. And don't for a moment think that I don't include myself in >this group. I have made many posts that were inappropriate/off topic as a >response to someone else's, or because my back was up. The distinction >is, I understand what I am doing and know it's >wrong/inappropriate/off-topic.....if not when I am posting it, then surely >soon after. Should I be "reprimanded" for these postings? yes....you're >damned right I should be reprimanded for some of them. Sometimes I am, >sometimes not. When I am politely asked by one of the list administrators >(off-list) to "cease and desist"...I do. So long as the same request has >been made to anyone else involved in the same "discussion", I have no >problem abiding by the requests of those in charge. > >However, when the absence of clearly defined rules (or netiquette) means >that virtually ANYTHING is postable, and whatever rules there may be are >not being followed (with no apparent consequences), then why should I play >by the rules??? > >At the end of the day, it matters not to me what you think of me or my >opinions. We don't even come close to seeing eye to eye on this. All I >know is that there are few boundaries to this list....and I think a few >should be set up so we don't have discussions about politics, religion, or >any others OFF TOPIC things that someone can peripherally (2nd generation) >relate to mineral collecting. > >Then I wouldn't have to delete email after email about water witching...... > >Michael From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Nov 8 12:31:27 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Tue Nov 8 12:28:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question References: <000f01c5e48a$beaf0c90$757ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <000b01c5e4a3$6551f7c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> It is not a good idea to breathe in any of the lubricants used in saws. Misting is a unnoticed problem that can affect your health and needs to be controled. I once used antifreeze and stopped using it after I had some health problems. You should used the manufacturers recommended depth for the depth of a saw blade in oil and a mist reducer and either stay away from the saw or use a mask if you are getting any mist. Lortone recommends a oil depth of 1/4 to 1/2 inch for their LS 10 ten inch slab saw. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question It is not a carcinogen, it contains Ethylene Glycol which just plain render you Dead Right There, so if your dream is to be found dead at your saw then, have at it. (A bit of hyperbole, but it is a poison and in the news too, some radio announce just used it to kill his wife) BK On 11/8/05, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > Thank you Hans and Jeff, One of our members had his own shop at home and > it > seems he had been using anti-freeze for a number of years having been told > it was ok to use. It is not a problem now for him, as he is 87 and no > longer > cutting. His health demands he find a home for all his lapidary equipment, > rough , slabs, etc. His wife 86 now has lung cancer, she was a non-smoker. > Club members have been gathering his stuff to a central storage so we can > clean and sort and prepare for an auction(s). > > When I saw the number of antifreeze containers in his shop, I questioned > the > use. I am a mineral collector, feldspars, so not always up on lapidary > concerns. But I believe it was on this list it was mentioned some time > back. > Perhaps a really good list of materials with comment on toxicity would > good > to post for lapidary. > > As an artist and retired art teacher I have been in contact with too many > toxic substances. It can happen to one very easily. > > Another concern which must be almost everyones concern. As collectors of > minerals, fossils, lapidary etc. sooner or later we must find good > caretakers for the materials we place value upon. > > Carolyn Reynard > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hans Durstling" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 11:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Question > > > > It is not. Automotive antifreeze is reputed to be toxic. RV antifreeze > > is reputed to be safe but not authoritatively enough to give me the > > confidence to use it. > > > > Cheers > > Hans Durstling > > Moncton, Canada > > > > > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2005, at 12:29 PM, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > > > > To the List: Is it wise to use antifreeze as a lubricant for a > > > cutting saw? > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Paintricks at aol.com Tue Nov 8 12:35:37 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 12:35:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Agrument about off topic rocking The ultimate rock?(different spin on it) Message-ID: Being on this list I have learned a great deal. Debates about ethics, rules of the trade, areas to collect and the responsibility to the land and it's owners. I also have made friends and gained knowledge of this great hobby. I enjoy a good debate about interests on this list but some of them go on and on without doing anything except irritating others. Let's make and argument more about geology and rocks and not list ethics. I believe most people want to be objective because we all enjoy the opinions here in this list. Soo,.. Who thinks they have the "Ultimate Rock"? I for the first time found Gold but that's too easy. My favorite would have to be the Amethyst geode I found from a good friend of this list, Steve Reutlinger. _SJRPRIME@aol.com_ (mailto:SJRPRIME@aol.com) . He makes great cabinets for gem and mineral collections and had made nice trades with me. As well as many others on this list. This is what I find fun about the list. I gives me great access to things I otherwise would never be able to obtain. Plus info on things I have found that I know nothing about. What's your Ultimate Rock? Fellow rockhound --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Nov 8 11:08:47 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Nov 8 13:11:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Montana Crystal Collectors Rendezvous References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466><001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1><00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear><7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com><002b01c5e3cf$e8298de0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <3208ceeaa3de299a31845c91f7bd07bd@lrream.com> Message-ID: <007001c5e497$ea2958a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Lanny, Thanks for the virtual trip! John From rik.dillen at skynet.be Tue Nov 8 13:13:08 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Tue Nov 8 13:13:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultimate mineral specimens In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200511082113.jA8LDA67009982@outmx026.isp.belgacom.be> I have in fact two ultimate rocks (in fact two ultimate mineral specimens). Anyway, they are ultimate to me : 1?/ Lengenbachite crystals found in the early seventies in the Lengenbach quarry, Imfeld, Binntal, Wallis, Switzerland. They are much more curled than usual. Just look for yourself at http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen/photos.htm (heading "Minerals - first trials - 5/7/2004"). Specimen identified and labeled by the "Arbeitsgemeinschaft Lengenbach" with sequence number L6267 2?/ Annabergite crystals I have found in Greece in 1978, that appeared on a North-Korean postage stamp (and later on on a Guinean stamp, but that story still lacks on my ages-old website - no time to revamp it). See (first part of the) story at http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen/stamp.htm Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Paintricks@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 9:36 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Agrument about off topic rocking The ultimaterock?(different spin on it) Being on this list I have learned a great deal. Debates about ethics, rules of the trade, areas to collect and the responsibility to the land and it's owners. I also have made friends and gained knowledge of this great hobby. I enjoy a good debate about interests on this list but some of them go on and on without doing anything except irritating others. Let's make and argument more about geology and rocks and not list ethics. I believe most people want to be objective because we all enjoy the opinions here in this list. Soo,.. Who thinks they have the "Ultimate Rock"? I for the first time found Gold but that's too easy. My favorite would have to be the Amethyst geode I found from a good friend of this list, Steve Reutlinger. _SJRPRIME@aol.com_ (mailto:SJRPRIME@aol.com) . He makes great cabinets for gem and mineral collections and had made nice trades with me. As well as many others on this list. This is what I find fun about the list. I gives me great access to things I otherwise would never be able to obtain. Plus info on things I have found that I know nothing about. What's your Ultimate Rock? Fellow rockhound --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From danielz at acmenet.net Tue Nov 8 13:24:48 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Tue Nov 8 13:24:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [AD] Mineralogical Record magazine set Message-ID: <000401c5e4aa$d96efcf0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> All issues from Volume 1 Number 1 through 1998. All in excellent condition. In fact the last few years are still in unopened plastic mailing envelopes. $1000 plus actual shipping. Dan Zabriskie Many Facets Rock Shop Albany, NY www.manyfacets.com From danielz at acmenet.net Tue Nov 8 13:28:37 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Tue Nov 8 13:28:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Attn: Jay Small Message-ID: <000501c5e4ab$61c9e8d0$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Jay, I've lost your email. Can you contact me off list? Dan Z Many Facets Albany, NY (Everybody else: my apologies) From rik.dillen at skynet.be Tue Nov 8 14:03:55 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Tue Nov 8 14:04:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral analyses In-Reply-To: <437031A0.1D11@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <200511082204.jA8M3vwb005247@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> I second Kreighs opinion. The prices proposed by Jim is a fraction of the actual cost. A new high-resolution ICPMS with laser ablation e.g. costs nowadays something like 500 000 EUR / 600 000 USD ; a microprobe is also in that price range (for a SEM with EDX you would pay "only" 300 000 EUR / 350 000 USD), and an X-ray diffractometer with a minimal powder goniometer would probably cost something like 150 000 EUR / 175 000 USD (allow a standard deviation of 20 % or so on these figures, that are only rough estimates). I work in an industrial lab (steel industry), and for third party work we would charge something like 90 EUR/h for manpower, and probably 80 EUR/h for ICPMS (only use of instrument, labour not included !), and perhaps 30-40 EUR/h (with a max of about 300 EUR per day of 24 hrs) for X-ray diffractometry. If you know that any X-ray powder diffractogram takes at least several hours you can calculate that this is really a bargain. I'm afraid that we would have to charge something like 200 EUR per sample for XRD (labour included). "Wet" ICPMS analyses would even be more costly, as the instrument is far more expensive, and much manpower is needed to dissolve the sample, set up a calibration, analyse standard reference materials for verification etc. I can assure you that the prices offered are not just "a bargain", it's nearly for free. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 6:04 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral analyses Do you have an unknown mineral that has been driving you nuts because you still can't identify it after months of study? Would you be willing to give up your morning coffee for a few weeks to know exactly what it is? Would you be willing to sacrifice a small sample to science? This is all that is needed to find the answer. This has got to be the best offer any serious rockhound could get -- access to sophisticated lab analysis at bargain prices. If you have not contacted Jim about doing an analysis of a small sample of your pet 'unknown' there is something wrong. I can't remember meeting a rockhound who didn't have at least one unknown specimen they needed help identifying. I find it amazing that Jim is not overwhelmed with requests. What are you waiting for? You are not going to find a better offer unless you have your own XRD. This is a great deal! Kreigh James Murowchick wrote: > > I don't think this counts as an ad--more a reminder of a service I can > offer to rockhounds. > > Some of you may remember a thread from last Spring about getting samples > analyzed/identified. I offered to perform XRD analyses for minimal cost > (details to be worked out on an individual basis). There were a number of > responses that ranged from "You're nuts!" and "You're going to get swamped > with requests" to genuine inquiries. Surprisingly, to date, I have had only > TWO requests for analyses, both from the same person. > > Since my (and apparently, those of some of you) fears have not come to > pass, I want to make the offer again. If you have a sample that you would > like me to run through the XRD for identification, please contact me. So > far, typical costs are about $10-30/sample. I can also perform optical > examination (determine optical properties, indices of refraction, etc., and > if you want to go whole hog, I might be able to do chemical analyses (by > ICPMS) as well, depending on what you're looking for. ICPMS analyses might > run $40-100/sample, depending on the amount of sample preparation that is > involved. > > The charges for the analyses go toward supplies and maintenance of the > equipment (a replacement X-ray tube costs about $2500), and the samples make > excellent "real-life" problems or examples for my mineralogy and > geochemistry classes. > > Jim > > > Dr. James B. Murowchick > Associate Professor, Mineralogy & Geochemistry > Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall > 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 > 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 > murowchickj@umkc.edu _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Tue Nov 8 14:07:36 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 14:07:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] microscope discussion Message-ID: <1F01D3B2.49D878B4.02180873@aol.com> Don is right but even if you have no desire to cut plastic tubing, The copy stand with lights, bellows, lens and adapter cost me less than $200 NEW about 15 years ago. I'd bet you could find the copy stand and maybe the bellows and lens second hand. Gene In a message dated 11/8/2005 2:49:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, DonH writes: >Paul wrote: >> I have a fujifilm finepix s5000. ?It has a lens that moves in and out >> but also a lens tube that accepts 55mm filters. ? > > >Oh my. ?I looked it up and saw what a big fat lens it has. ?With the >macro feature, you may be able to zoom in on a widefield eyepiece and >get a decent-sized image. ?As Gene suggested, you can gte a small tripod >or copy stand, and use a piece of black plastic tubing as a light >shroud, and hold the camera over the eyepiece. ?I did something like >that with my Coolpix 990 when I took my first shots through the >eyepiece; I said, "this isn't going to be any good," but I was surprised >at how decent they were. > >FYI--don't get trapped into "technical one-upmanship." ?You have a fine >camera there. ?The industry needs to entice you to buy the next big >thing so they can stay in business, but there are people who are taking >wonderful images with 10-year-old cameras. ?There's no hurry; the $900 >camera you buy today will be on eBay for $300 next year. ?The camera >doesn't make you a photographer; the practice makes you a photographer. > ?Besides, if you have your heart set on viewing micro material, your >first step needs to be a scope. > >Just to make things more confusing, be aware that most, if not all, >consumer digitals are not designed for microscopy. ?In fact, once >someone figured out that the Nikon 9xx series cameras were easily >adaptible to a microscope, Nikon was inundated with requests for tech >support, and then complaints about the lens quality in later models, to >the point where they officially disavowed the use of their cameras for >photomicrography. ?Onthe plus side, you get instant feedback. ?On the >down side, you need to do some work, sometimes a lot of work, to make it >happen satisfactorily. > >Right now, the best investment of your time and money might be to attend >a meeting of a micromount group or, better yet, a micromount symposium. > ?I'm trying to help the best I can, but there is no substitute for >seeing different scopes, seeing who has what camera rig, and maybe >holding your camera up to the eyepieces of different scopes to see what >you can see. ?If I'm not mistaken (someone jump in here) the next >symposium nearest to you will be in April in the Baltimore, MD, area. >These are wonderful experiences. > >Best, >Don > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From murowchickj at umkc.edu Tue Nov 8 14:18:38 2005 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Tue Nov 8 14:13:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral analyses In-Reply-To: <200511082204.jA8M3vwb005247@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: Kreigh and Rik- Thanks, guys (I think). Just an addendum--my cheap rates are for rockhounds, just to help them with the difficult mineral IDs. I'm not making money off those, but I do need to cover the cost of using the equipment. I also have commercial rates--I can do a small amount of consulting/contract work, but that has to be done around my teaching and other duties as a professor. (I had one inquiry that I think was commercial in nature). As long as I'm not overwhelmed with requests, I'll do what I can. Jim Murowchick On 11/8/05 4:03 PM, "Rik Dillen" wrote: > I second Kreighs opinion. The prices proposed by Jim is a fraction of the > actual cost. > A new high-resolution ICPMS with laser ablation e.g. costs nowadays something > like 500 000 EUR / 600 000 USD ; a > microprobe is also in that price range (for a SEM with EDX you would pay > "only" 300 000 EUR / 350 000 USD), and an X-ray > diffractometer with a minimal powder goniometer would probably cost something > like 150 000 EUR / 175 000 USD > (allow a standard deviation of 20 % or so on these figures, that are only > rough estimates). > > I work in an industrial lab (steel industry), and for third party work we > would charge something like 90 EUR/h for > manpower, and probably 80 EUR/h for ICPMS (only use of instrument, labour not > included !), and perhaps 30-40 EUR/h (with > a max of about 300 EUR per day of 24 hrs) for X-ray diffractometry. If you > know that any X-ray powder diffractogram > takes at least several hours you can calculate that this is really a bargain. > I'm afraid that we would have to charge > something like 200 EUR per sample for XRD (labour included). > > "Wet" ICPMS analyses would even be more costly, as the instrument is far more > expensive, and much manpower is needed to > dissolve the sample, set up a calibration, analyse standard reference > materials for verification etc. > > I can assure you that the prices offered are not just "a bargain", it's nearly > for free. > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>>> Belgian minerals >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski > Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 6:04 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral analyses > > Do you have an unknown mineral that has been driving you nuts because > you still can't identify it after months of study? Would you be willing > to give up your morning coffee for a few weeks to know exactly what it > is? Would you be willing to sacrifice a small sample to science? This is > all that is needed to find the answer. > > This has got to be the best offer any serious rockhound could get -- > access to sophisticated lab analysis at bargain prices. If you have not > contacted Jim about doing an analysis of a small sample of your pet > 'unknown' there is something wrong. > > I can't remember meeting a rockhound who didn't have at least one > unknown specimen they needed help identifying. I find it amazing that > Jim is not overwhelmed with requests. > > What are you waiting for? You are not going to find a better offer > unless you have your own XRD. This is a great deal! > > Kreigh > > > > > James Murowchick wrote: >> >> I don't think this counts as an ad--more a reminder of a service I can >> offer to rockhounds. >> >> Some of you may remember a thread from last Spring about getting samples >> analyzed/identified. I offered to perform XRD analyses for minimal cost >> (details to be worked out on an individual basis). There were a number of >> responses that ranged from "You're nuts!" and "You're going to get swamped >> with requests" to genuine inquiries. Surprisingly, to date, I have had only >> TWO requests for analyses, both from the same person. >> >> Since my (and apparently, those of some of you) fears have not come to >> pass, I want to make the offer again. If you have a sample that you would >> like me to run through the XRD for identification, please contact me. So >> far, typical costs are about $10-30/sample. I can also perform optical >> examination (determine optical properties, indices of refraction, etc., and >> if you want to go whole hog, I might be able to do chemical analyses (by >> ICPMS) as well, depending on what you're looking for. ICPMS analyses might >> run $40-100/sample, depending on the amount of sample preparation that is >> involved. >> >> The charges for the analyses go toward supplies and maintenance of the >> equipment (a replacement X-ray tube costs about $2500), and the samples make >> excellent "real-life" problems or examples for my mineralogy and >> geochemistry classes. >> >> Jim >> >> >> Dr. James B. Murowchick >> Associate Professor, Mineralogy & Geochemistry >> Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall >> 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 >> 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 >> murowchickj@umkc.edu > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Nov 8 13:43:04 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Nov 8 15:45:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultimate mineral specimens References: <200511082113.jA8LDA67009982@outmx026.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <004901c5e4ad$6b26b0a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> I'm glad this came up because I have a question about terminology. My current favorite specimen is right in front of me. It is from Coffin Butte in Benton County, Oregon. Measuring 9 x 6 x 4cm, it contains calcite rhombohedra up to 15mm on 1mm stilbite covered with quartz druse (please feel free to correct my usage here). One of the calcite crystals acts as a prism showing the spectrum three times in distinct bands. Is there a proper term for this phenomenon? As I said, this is my current favorite specimen. That may change tomorrow. John From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 8 16:03:43 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 8 16:01:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? References: Message-ID: <43713C4B.2548@Tomaszewski.net> Jeff, The List does have guidelines. They will soon be changing slightly as part of the admin transition. To review the current rules just click on the WWW link in the list signature block at the bottom of every post. Kreigh BNMJEFF@aol.com wrote: >With no rules, it is up to the list > moderators not us to determine what is acceptable as ON topic. > > Jeff > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 8 16:14:09 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Tue Nov 8 16:14:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] texasite? References: <436FFC7D.6090307@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <001401c5e4c2$82be11d0$78f1edc1@mpc1> > I remember something about "texasite" years ago, but I can't remember the > details, could you educate me and the list on the story. Texasite was supposed to be naturally occurring praseodymium sulphate. In fact it came out of a lab. reagent bottle. I have a large crystal of it in my showcase here (it's a lovely green), sitting next to a neodymium sulphate crystal (which is bright pink). The chemical properties of these two elements are so close that in nature they occur as an almost inseparable mixture and for many years were regarded as one element (didymium). The same person who scammed the mineralogical world with this stuff also pulled a blinder with several other "new" minerals before he was finally exposed. For the whole horrible tale see PEACOR, Donald R., Simmons, William B., Essene, Eric J. & Heinrich, E. Wm. (1982) New data on and discreditation of "texasite," "albrittonite," "cuproartinite," "cuprohydromagnesite," and "yttromicrolite," with corrected data on nickelbischofite, rowlandite, and yttrocrasite 156 American Mineralogist 67, 156 ff. Egg on face all around. Mick From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 8 16:38:24 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 8 16:35:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: The ultimate rock rock?(different spin on it) References: Message-ID: <43714469.41C@Tomaszewski.net> Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > have found that I know nothing about. > What's your Ultimate Rock? > Fellow rockhound The ultimate rock would have to be the one I hope to someday collect that containes a new mineral that I would get to describe and name. Kreigh From Paintricks at aol.com Tue Nov 8 16:38:18 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 16:38:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: The ultimate rock rock?(different spin on it) Message-ID: <21b.235599a.30a29efa@aol.com> In a message dated 11/8/2005 6:36:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: The ultimate rock would have to be the one I hope to someday collect that containes a new mineral that I would get to describe and name. That would be Tomaszewskizite,...right? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Tue Nov 8 16:39:10 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Tue Nov 8 16:39:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE:RE:RE:RE:RE OFF TOPIC Message-ID: <16f416a225114ef866bd12506f6fedbe@comcast.net> Since I get the list in a lump, I often have to catch up on the controversies. I got a B & I Gemmaker for my 14th Birthday in (Gasp) 1958. The same year my family joined the Grand Rapids Mineral Society. I've been going to shows since the MIdwest Federation Show in Saginaw that year (or there abouts). As a high school junior I worked Saturdays for Bob Swenson of the long gone S & W Rock Shop on Leonard Street in Grand Rapids. I love to talk rocks and have enjoyed this list. In the real world I was a Reading Specialist all school levels. I know even more about reading than I do rocks. Many years ago Mortimer Adler wrote a book called "How to Read a Book" He was a real smart guy (Editor of the Encyclopedia Britanica) It was a great book but it got seriously mocked in The Saturday Review, when they printed a joking article called "How to Read Two Books" So at the risk of mockery, I wish to suggest "How to Read a List" 1 Read the subject line. 2 Skip it if you just know it will get your undies in a knot. Advantages: It will help your blood pressure The list will not get clogged up with righteous indignation From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Nov 8 16:56:05 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Nov 8 16:55:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: The ultimate rock rock?(different spin on it) In-Reply-To: <21b.235599a.30a29efa@aol.com> References: <21b.235599a.30a29efa@aol.com> Message-ID: <43714925.7090200@verizon.net> Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 11/8/2005 6:36:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > > The ultimate rock would have to be the one I hope to someday collect > that containes a new mineral that I would get to describe and name. > > That would be Tomaszewskizite,...right? Trivia time: Well, actually, no. The IMA rules state that you can't name a mineral after yourself. However, it's not uncommon for a discoverer to give their new mineral to another author to describe and they named it after the original finder. I heard a story that a mineralogist once named a mineral after someone with the same last name so it would have his name on it. I forget the name and I don't know if it's true, but that would be a pretty deplorable thing to do. In fact the committee should have never approved it if that were the case. Best, Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 8 17:48:17 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 8 17:45:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: The ultimate rock rock?(different spin on it) References: <21b.235599a.30a29efa@aol.com> Message-ID: <437154C1.1D17@Tomaszewski.net> Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 11/8/2005 6:36:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > > The ultimate rock would have to be the one I hope to someday collect > that containes a new mineral that I would get to describe and name. > > That would be Tomaszewskizite,...right? As much as I would appreciate a Kreighite or Tomaszewskiite, I can't propose those names. I would start with Dockerayite, named after my childhood mentor, Geologist Mary Jane Dockeray. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 8 18:01:22 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 8 17:58:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultimate mineral specimens References: <200511082113.jA8LDA67009982@outmx026.isp.belgacom.be> <004901c5e4ad$6b26b0a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <437157D0.20C0@Tomaszewski.net> John Siebel wrote: > > I'm glad this came up because I have a question about terminology. > > My current favorite specimen is right in front of me. It is from Coffin > Butte in Benton County, Oregon. Measuring 9 x 6 x 4cm, it contains calcite > rhombohedra up to 15mm on 1mm stilbite covered with quartz druse (please > feel free to correct my usage here). One of the calcite crystals acts as a > prism showing the spectrum three times in distinct bands. Is there a proper > term for this phenomenon? > > As I said, this is my current favorite specimen. That may change tomorrow. > > John > John, I've always seen the 'rainbows' described as 'interference colors'. Kreigh From BNMJEFF at aol.com Tue Nov 8 18:13:03 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 8 18:13:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? Message-ID: <8d.32bca905.30a2b52f@aol.com> Kreigh, A missing word from my sentence....without concise rules My apologies for the omission. Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Nov 8 16:20:39 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Nov 8 18:23:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultimate mineral specimens References: <200511082113.jA8LDA67009982@outmx026.isp.belgacom.be><004901c5e4ad$6b26b0a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <437157D0.20C0@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000901c5e4c3$890ccbc0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> From: Kreigh > I've always seen the 'rainbows' described as 'interference colors'. I was just thinking that this crystal is simply 'prismatic'? Either way, it's very cool. I've tried to photograph it without much luck but I'll keep trying. John From totis99 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 8 18:27:08 2005 From: totis99 at yahoo.com (teresa otis) Date: Tue Nov 8 18:27:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] The ultimate rock In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051109022708.50673.qmail@web36701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The ultimate rock and favorite piece are two different things. I don't think I've come across my ultimate rock yet but there have probably been some close calls. My favorite piece is actually 3 (not in any particular order LOL) ..... first: a 93 gram tourmaline from Paraiba...its about 6 inches long and changes from blue to green and a color in between depending on where the sun hits it and even though it was probably 'blast mined' as most of it is and was, it doesn't appear to have any broken or cracked places that have been repaired (which I have been told is quite common for that locale) second: a huge plate of Brushy Creek that weighs about 35 pounds and is covered with dogtooth calcite, some double terminated, marcasite and many of the classic mineral associations from that locality third: a piece from Magnet Cove, Arkansas that is around 6 or 7 pounds and is a solid boulder of smoky quartz and brookite with maybe a few magnetites and sixlings thrown in (one of the first pieces I ever collected on my own) I love them for their beauty as well as the rarity :) Teresa Otis --- Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > Being on this list I have learned a great deal. > Debates about ethics, rules > of the trade, areas to collect and the > responsibility to the land and it's > owners. > I also have made friends and gained knowledge of > this great hobby. I enjoy > a good debate about interests on this list but some > of them go on and on > without doing anything except irritating others. > Let's make and argument more > about geology and rocks and not list ethics. I > believe most people want to be > objective because we all enjoy the opinions here in > this list. > Soo,.. Who thinks they have the "Ultimate Rock"? > I for the first time > found Gold but that's too easy. My favorite would > have to be the Amethyst > geode I found from a good friend of this list, Steve > Reutlinger. > _SJRPRIME@aol.com_ (mailto:SJRPRIME@aol.com) . He > makes great cabinets for gem and mineral > collections and had made nice trades with me. As > well as many others on this > list. This is what I find fun about the list. I > gives me great access > to things I otherwise would never be able to obtain. > Plus info on things I > have found that I know nothing about. > What's your Ultimate Rock? > Fellow rockhound > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 8 18:50:58 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 8 18:50:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultimate mineral specimens References: <200511082113.jA8LDA67009982@outmx026.isp.belgacom.be><004901c5e4ad$6b26b0a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <437157D0.20C0@Tomaszewski.net> <000901c5e4c3$890ccbc0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <4371640F.3701@Tomaszewski.net> John, 'Rainbows' in calcite are fairly common due to the high index of refraction and the presence of subsurface cracks (that may not be generally visible) or crystal defects. The crystal discontinuity generates an interference effect and the high index of refraction causes it to spread out. I don't know if you have noticed it, but because of the double refraction in calcite the 'rainbows' are often two sided -- for example, red-yellow-green-yellow-red. Kreigh John Siebel wrote: > > From: Kreigh > > I've always seen the 'rainbows' described as 'interference colors'. > > I was just thinking that this crystal is simply 'prismatic'? Either way, > it's very cool. I've tried to photograph it without much luck but I'll keep > trying. > > John From tam2819 at cox.net Tue Nov 8 19:02:23 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Tue Nov 8 19:02:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? In-Reply-To: <8d.32bca905.30a2b52f@aol.com> References: <8d.32bca905.30a2b52f@aol.com> Message-ID: <926eda503bf8b2c93f7cc3d79e39ee73@cox.net> Why does the word Gestapo run through my mind reading these rants. Jeff, I appreciate your efforts, they are bouncing off of closed minds. Why anyone recognizing they are not the moderator of this list will persist in trying to force their specific rigidity down on the list, shows me how much they want to be the direktor. Of course I know just who will, once again attempt to publicly ridicule me. I take it from where it comes, and laugh. Terrie From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Nov 8 19:14:34 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Nov 8 19:14:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Teachers seeking cheap geodes References: Message-ID: <00cf01c5e4db$b5e32460$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Denise, I don't think I've got 400 geodes, but I've got a bunch that are inexpensive. They are from Indiana and most are in the 50 cent to $3 price range. I've also got bulk quantities of other minerals (usually for grab bags) that cost $17.50 / 100 plus shipping. Minerals include: calcite, pink dolomite, fluorite, sulfide minerals (galena, sphalerite, pyrite), gypsum, and misc. others. (I've also got bulk quantities of fossils for the same price.) Regards, Alan Goldstein P.S. I apologize to the group, I tried sending it to her directly but in bounced back as being blocked by the school system's filter with this message: has encountered a delivery problem. Reason: Delivery not authorized The sender is not authorized to send to the destination. This can be the result of per-host or per-recipient filtering. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Weber Denise" To: Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 2:57 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Teachers seeking cheap geodes Hello. . . we are seeking to purchase about 400 inexpensive geodes to give to our classes of students. Can you recommend a site that offers real geodes for inexpensive prices? Sincerely, Denise Weber denise.weber@ww-p.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Nov 8 19:18:41 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Nov 8 19:18:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultimate mineral specimens (interference color) References: <200511082113.jA8LDA67009982@outmx026.isp.belgacom.be><004901c5e4ad$6b26b0a0$6400a8c0@mshome.net><437157D0.20C0@Tomaszewski.net> <000901c5e4c3$890ccbc0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <00e201c5e4dc$49a6bf90$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I've photographed interference patterns, refraction, whatever, of calcite in a microscope. See for instance, http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=26243 or http://www.mindat.org/picshow.php?id=26392. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 7:20 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ultimate mineral specimens > From: Kreigh >> I've always seen the 'rainbows' described as 'interference colors'. > > I was just thinking that this crystal is simply 'prismatic'? Either way, > it's very cool. I've tried to photograph it without much luck but I'll > keep > trying. > > John > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Nov 8 19:29:25 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Nov 8 19:29:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: The ultimate rock References: Message-ID: <00f301c5e4dd$c8f4a9f0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I have too many, but by category: In trade, an 80 pound galena crystal from the Buick mine is one. I traded a 1 cm dia. rare trilobite for it. Self-collected, smithsonite crystals on fluorite from Cave in Rock are a favorite. (But which specimen?) Fossils, I collected a beautiful staghorn-style Devonian coral at a local quarry in June that is a new favorite for this category. Rocks, in the 1970's I found a cone-in-cone specimen that interlocks. It looks like a ordinary orangish rock until you separate the halves. Each one has casts and molds of cones that looks like a miniature version of the famous Chinese tower karst. Like others, I think my favorite changes... but from day to day! Alan From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 8 19:37:21 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 8 19:37:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetic terminology References: <110720052326.12639.436FE2A0000E7F080000315F216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <43716EE7.67C8@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, A 'permanent magnet' is a substance that retains its magnetic properties -- think of lodestone, or a classic horseshoe or bar magnet -- and always generates a magnetic field. A substance that is easily magnetized is considered to be ferromagnetic. If it is magnetized with difficulty it is considered to be paramagnetic. Neither are permanent magnets without the influence of an external magnetic field. Ferromagnetic materials may become permanent magnets after the external field is removed. If a ferromagnetic material retains its magnetism (becomes a permanent magnet) after being affected by an external magnetic field it is said to have good retentivity. Diamagnetic materials tend to exclude magnetic fields (and are repelled by magnetic fields because they generate a weak opposit magnetic field). Magnetic means the substance is attracted or repelled by a magnetic field; it may or may not have its own magnetic field when considered alone. Magnetized indicates a substance that acquires magnetic properties (a magnetic field) in the presence of an external magnetic field -- it may or may not retain it when the external field is removed. A magnet is something that has a magnetic field. Kreigh P.S., I hope I remembered all this Physics correctly. It has been a while. ;-} pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > This confusion, about what "magnetic" means, has I know come up before, both in this group online, and in people I've talked to about minerals. > > It seems that our language is, in fact, lacking a commonly understood term, to mean "something that is magnetized", as opposed to "something that is attracted to a magnet". Both get lumped under the general term, "magnetic". > > When we say "magnet" we mean only an object that has a net magnetic field, and can attract other objects. Likewise, "magnetized" means having this property, but it has a "made by human action" connotation. There just doesn't seem to be a single good word to refer to a material (natural or human-made), like lodestone, that has a net magnetic field and will attract other objects, as opposed to material that is simply capable of being attracted to a magnet. Is there? > > At least, in English there doesn't seem to be a good common word for this. Does anyone, perhaps, know of a word(s) that make this distinction better, in other languages, among our multilingual friends on this list? > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from "Mick Cooper" : -------------- > > > I think this is the crux of the issue: A magnet (of whatever persuasion) is, > > presumably, magnetic, since it will attract, for example, iron filings. But > > not all lumps of iron are magnets are they? Sure, you can magnetize it and > > turn it into a magnet. But is there a term - other than magnetic, to > > describe a lump of non-magnetized material, that, of itself, will not > > attract stuff even though it has the potential so to do? > > > > Mick > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Tue Nov 8 21:00:55 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Tue Nov 8 21:01:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? References: Message-ID: <001501c5e4ea$911ec440$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Who made this list a "technical" list??? According to the original intent posted by Aaron Fox: Rockhounds@drizzle list, a majordomo-managed unmoderated mailing list for those interested in rock and mineral collecting, lapidary work and other mineral-related hobbies. Where is any indication of the nature of the list being a "technical forum"? When the discussions get too technical it's really boring for me if not the majority of the list members. Maybe that's why so few of the lurkers rarely post anything. There have hardly ever been discussions of lapidary subjects which is why I joined the list in the first place, other than "technical" stuff about Rock Saws. There are many many facets of rock, gemstone, or mineral related hobbies AND/OR businesses. If the posts don't interest you, don't read them, but starting a big whooha about some posts being off-topic creates a bigger problem for the whole list than the original off-topic (to you) did in the first place. Let the LAG's decide when something gets TOO far off-topic. >From Aaron's original rules of the list: "8) Semi-rock related postings:There are some postings that I allow to the list that are indirectly related to rockhounding as a hobby. Most notable are the messages regarding land-use and potential closures of large stretches of public lands, many of which contain valuable collecting resources. Here's the deal: I feel that these postings are relevant to our hobby, and, so long as they are well-worded, relatively infrequent, and are posted BY LIST MEMBERS, I will allow them to continue. I'm sorry if you don't like having to delete them. If they truly bother you that much, email me personally, and I'll show you how to set up an email filter to trap and eliminate such messages." I know of several people who had joined the list at my recommendation and didn't stay long because (1) the topics were boring and (2) too much complaining and sniping about what somebody else said. Jeanette > In a message dated 11/7/2005 11:41:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > albalmer@att.net writes: > > it is important for a technical forum to exert some effort to keep on > topic, and this is the kind of thing the list administrators should be > concerned with. It's much more insidious and has worse long-term effects > than temporary ill-feelings and > name-calling. It is all too easy for a technical list to be corrupted to > the point of uselessness by allowing long discussions on every > conceivable topic. > Jeff wrote: > Main Entry: rock hound > Function: noun > 1 : a specialist in geology > 2 : an amateur rock and mineral collector > > That is one of 5 definitions found on Internet dictionaries for > "rockhound" > all listed essentially the same definition, and all included the word > amateur > or hobby in the definition. If this list is in fact a "technical forum" > then > your point is valid, but unless the rules state that it is such, then us > "amateurs" have a voice and a right to broach subjects as well. > > "My vote would > be for subjects directly related to rock collecting and mineralogy, with > metaphysical postings referred to one of the many venues devoted to > such." > > Are you excluding discussion of how rocks and minerals are used in daily > life in this "vote"? If so then quite a few threads on this board in the > past > would not have been allowed. Metaphysics (not the con game aspect but the > theory > and practice) is a use of rocks and minerals and should have a valid place > here. I am not advocating making the list a metaphysical clearinghouse, > but > threads that contain valid information should be allowed. That would be > my > "vote" > > Jeff > From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Tue Nov 8 21:46:13 2005 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Tue Nov 8 21:46:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rice Museum visit Message-ID: What a treat is was to visit the Rice Museum again! We visited with our club Northwest Mineral Prospectors on Saturday. It was a perfect Oregon day, pouring down rain! They have recently completed a remodel and it is spectacular! New is the addition of an entire room of Oregon petrified woods. Many hands on pieces and one case that displays cubes of many different species of wood. The gold display is fairly new and is filled with mostly Washington State gold, but also had some California gold too. The "old room" still has the originals in it, with pieces that are timeless. The original museum was a house built with stone that was self collected by Richard Rice. There are many Palm petrified wood slabs that he also collected from Texas that are big enough to make coffee tables out of. They have also added an entire building housing Northwest specimens. There is a case with beautiful Rat's Nest claim specimens, I can't even describe the pink color! There is a display of northwest gold from all of the northwest states. At the entry of the building is a huge piece of Opal Butte opal, can't remember how much it weighed, but it hits me at the hip and broke when loading. They've polished the front of it and left the back as it was. You can see little eggs all over the backside of it. There is also a NW map at the entry with rock/mineral localities marked. The displays line the walls of the building and the center of the room is used for meeting and classes. The new displays have many photos too, showing the collection efforts. Since we had made advance arrangements, we have guides there that answered any and all questions. What a great group they have! The have a great little gift shop out there too. Now if I could just move into that house..... From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Tue Nov 8 22:58:32 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Tue Nov 8 22:59:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rice Museum visit References: Message-ID: <004801c5e4fb$008e57e0$655fe842@Titans> Greeting's, This Museum can be seen at www.ricenwmuseum.org/ Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dawn M. Fredricks" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 10:46 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Rice Museum visit > What a treat is was to visit the Rice Museum again! We visited with our > club Northwest Mineral Prospectors on Saturday. It was a perfect Oregon > day, pouring down rain! They have recently completed a remodel and it is > spectacular! > > New is the addition of an entire room of Oregon petrified woods. Many > hands on pieces and one case that displays cubes of many different species > of wood. The gold display is fairly new and is filled with mostly > Washington State gold, but also had some California gold too. > > The "old room" still has the originals in it, with pieces that are > timeless. The original museum was a house built with stone that was self > collected by Richard Rice. There are many Palm petrified wood slabs that > he also collected from Texas that are big enough to make coffee tables out > of. > > They have also added an entire building housing Northwest specimens. > There is a case with beautiful Rat's Nest claim specimens, I can't even > describe the pink color! There is a display of northwest gold from all of > the northwest states. At the entry of the building is a huge piece of > Opal Butte opal, can't remember how much it weighed, but it hits me at the > hip and broke when loading. They've polished the front of it and left the > back as it was. You can see little eggs all over the backside of it. > There is also a NW map at the entry with rock/mineral localities marked. > The displays line the walls of the building and the center of the room is > used for meeting and classes. The new displays have many photos too, > showing the collection efforts. > > Since we had made advance arrangements, we have guides there that answered > any and all questions. What a great group they have! > > The have a great little gift shop out there too. Now if I could just move > into that house..... > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 9 01:07:13 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Wed Nov 9 01:07:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: The ultimate rock rock?(different spin on it) References: <21b.235599a.30a29efa@aol.com> <43714925.7090200@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001301c5e50c$fa19a4c0$78f1edc1@mpc1> > I heard a story that a mineralogist once named a mineral after someone > with the same last name so it would have his name on it. I forget the > name and I don't know if it's true, but that would be a pretty deplorable > thing to do. In fact the committee should have never approved it if that > were the case. My favourite is laurite - apparently named after the describer's best friend's wife ... hmmm .... Mick From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 9 07:22:07 2005 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Nov 9 07:23:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Favorite minerals References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466><001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1><00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> <7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com> Message-ID: <006d01c5e541$784d6460$938b4c0c@LarryRush> One of my most interesting specimens was a self-collected beryl crystal from a Connecticut pegmatite. About 4" in diameter, 6" long and doubly terminated, it is undistinguished except for an unusual coloration. This guy is pink on one half, and green on the other. Still not too unusual, I suppose, but the color zonation runs diagonally across the prism face. That is, from one side of the top basal termination to the other side of the opposite basal termination (is that a contorted description?)...If you hold the crystal upright, you would see pink on half the prism face, and green on the other half of the same face, diagonally separated. The line of color separation is very clean and sharp. You can see it just as well defined on two opposing sides, and one base is pink and the other green. I am at a loss to see how this happened. I can't see how the crystal growth could have occurred this way, or a change in nutrients during formation, either. I really would appreciate some ideas from you mineralogists out there. The spec. was found in a large core zone in a feldspar quarry, associated with lepidolite, schorl, rubellite, and microcline. (I can't post a picture as the specimen now lives in a Connecticut museum) Thanks.....Larry From mrmanon at umich.edu Wed Nov 9 07:52:31 2005 From: mrmanon at umich.edu (Matthew Manon) Date: Wed Nov 9 07:53:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] texasite? In-Reply-To: <001401c5e4c2$82be11d0$78f1edc1@mpc1> References: <436FFC7D.6090307@ncmail.net> <001401c5e4c2$82be11d0$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: You shouldn't forget the most memorable part of the story, that the author of these papers was named Wilson W. Crook. cheers, -Matt On Nov 8, 2005, at 7:14 PM, Mick Cooper wrote: >> I remember something about "texasite" years ago, but I can't >> remember the details, could you educate me and the list on the story. > > > Texasite was supposed to be naturally occurring praseodymium > sulphate. In fact it came out of a lab. reagent bottle. I have a > large crystal of it in my showcase here (it's a lovely green), > sitting next to a neodymium sulphate crystal (which is bright > pink). The chemical properties of these two elements are so close > that in nature they occur as an almost inseparable mixture and for > many years were regarded as one element (didymium). The same person > who scammed the mineralogical world with this stuff also pulled a > blinder with several other "new" minerals before he was finally > exposed. For the whole horrible tale see PEACOR, Donald R., > Simmons, William B., Essene, Eric J. & Heinrich, E. Wm. (1982) New > data on and discreditation of "texasite," "albrittonite," > "cuproartinite," "cuprohydromagnesite," and "yttromicrolite," with > corrected data on nickelbischofite, rowlandite, and yttrocrasite > 156 American Mineralogist 67, 156 ff. Egg on face all around. > Mick > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Nov 9 08:15:41 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Nov 9 08:15:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rice Museum visit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <437220AD.8070905@tenforward.com> Hi Dawn, Thanks for your info. posting regarding the Rice Museum. For those of us located in the NW'ern United States, hands down, the Rice is one of our finest institutions for things geological. Gloria and I have been very fortunate to be involved with some of the displays at the Museum in a minor sense having placed 2 six month displays into the NW room within the Friends of Mineralogy sponsored display case, one of minerals and the other of fossils. Currently we've over 20 pieces on display in the new NW Building which we are very proud of. These pieces, all self collected, range in size from mere cm's to two specimens weighing over 100 pounds (102 pound Gallatin golden calcite specimen and a 147 pound geode-like pocket of quartz after apophyllite pseudomorphs). Also did you notice the wonderful case photos? I'm in many of these, just look for feet sticking out of a wall or a butt shot with the rest of me stuffed in a hole... fun photos and funer times! Again, thank you very much for your report! All the very best, John Dawn M. Fredricks wrote: > What a treat is was to visit the Rice Museum again! We visited with > our club Northwest Mineral Prospectors on Saturday. It was a perfect > Oregon day, pouring down rain! They have recently completed a remodel > and it is spectacular! > > New is the addition of an entire room of Oregon petrified woods. Many > hands on pieces and one case that displays cubes of many different > species of wood. The gold display is fairly new and is filled with > mostly Washington State gold, but also had some California gold too. > > The "old room" still has the originals in it, with pieces that are > timeless. The original museum was a house built with stone that was > self collected by Richard Rice. There are many Palm petrified wood > slabs that he also collected from Texas that are big enough to make > coffee tables out of. > > They have also added an entire building housing Northwest specimens. > There is a case with beautiful Rat's Nest claim specimens, I can't > even describe the pink color! There is a display of northwest gold > from all of the northwest states. At the entry of the building is a > huge piece of Opal Butte opal, can't remember how much it weighed, but > it hits me at the hip and broke when loading. They've polished the > front of it and left the back as it was. You can see little eggs all > over the backside of it. There is also a NW map at the entry with > rock/mineral localities marked. The displays line the walls of the > building and the center of the room is used for meeting and classes. > The new displays have many photos too, showing the collection efforts. > > Since we had made advance arrangements, we have guides there that > answered any and all questions. What a great group they have! > > The have a great little gift shop out there too. Now if I could just > move into that house..... > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From tblackwood1 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 9 08:30:09 2005 From: tblackwood1 at yahoo.com (Timothy Blackwood) Date: Wed Nov 9 08:30:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ultimate mineral specimens In-Reply-To: <000901c5e4c3$890ccbc0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <20051109163009.52937.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, The discussion of everyone's ultimate mineral specimens is very interesting. My current favorite is a small cabinet calcite on sphalerite from the Elmowood Mine, Carthage, Tennessee. The main calcite crystal, 2 to 2.5 inches in length, is golden with a darker layer beneath the surface near the upper termination. It has 1 or 2 smaller side crystals. All are perched nicely on sphalerite. Only the underside of the sphalerite is crystallized. Though there are a couple minor cleaves on the upper termination, this is the highlight of my Elmwood suite. :) Tim Timothy J. Blackwood E-mail: tblackwood1@yahoo.com Phone: (218)328-6272 Home Address: 120 N.W. 5th Street Apt. #101 Cohasset, Minnesota, USA 55721 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Wed Nov 9 08:43:37 2005 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Wed Nov 9 08:43:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Naming minerals; was: The ultimate rock rock?(different spin on it) References: <21b.235599a.30a29efa@aol.com> <43714925.7090200@verizon.net> Message-ID: <43722739.22C81091@gmx.de> Hello, dachiardite was named by Giovanni D'Achiardi after his father Antonio D'Achiardi (1839-1902). Think what you want ... This happened in 1906, and they had rules, but no IMA committee in charge at that time, as far as I know. Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Ulm - Germany DonH schrieb: > I heard a story that a mineralogist once named a mineral after someone > with the same last name so it would have his name on it. I forget the > name and I don't know if it's true, but that would be a pretty > deplorable thing to do. In fact the committee should have never > approved it if that were the case. > > Best, > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tangojuli at yahoo.com Wed Nov 9 09:10:21 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Wed Nov 9 09:10:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Favorite Rock In-Reply-To: <200511091655.jA9GtbpU010443@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20051109171021.2420.qmail@web60813.mail.yahoo.com> Well, by now many know that I collect "rocks" not just minerals. So, to contribute to the favorites discussion, I have two favorite rocks, both that came from within 30 miles of each other in the Mojave. Tucking out of a sandy, silty exposure under a young lava flow near Ridgecrest California, were these odd brecciated pebbles. Crushed at pressure but left in place, a silica mix cemented all the peices of the rounded large pebbles in place like puzzle --or mosaics. Oddly, they do not have this silica on the outside of the peices--just the inside, so they look manmade.(Some are quartzite, some are true rocks of granite or breccia) Second favorite--Tie Die Rock, from Randsburg (living ghost town) in California. In checking out all the prospects south of randsburg, I found what appeared to be this odd clearly metamorphosed, tie-dyed looking rock. I couldn't figure it out until I located the fifth peice--part of it was undeformed, and it was originally diorite. The tie-dye portion was the beginning, I assume, of the deformation, before following stages (gneiss etc?). A contact peice. Hence my ongoing fascination with rocks, as well as minerals! tina tuttle aka tangojuli __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Nov 9 09:50:11 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Nov 9 10:06:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Texasite : the (more or less) complete story Message-ID: <200511091750.jA9HoDHR015232@outmx005.isp.belgacom.be> Hi all, Unbelievable... I wanted to fresh up my memory on the texasite issue, and found a reference via Google : a message to the Rockhounds list containing the story of texasite. And now comes the clue : to my own surprise it was written by... me : MindatSurvival-- MakingShared Knowledge Permanent, Rik Dillen rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Jan 16 13:19:08 PST 2005. I'm really getting short in memory... but obviously I'm not alone. In short the story goes like this. BTW the paragraph on the post-1982 events was kindly written by Prof. Dr. James B. Murowchick (Jim) with whom I had also some interesting discussions on the topic. Thanks, Jim ! In 1978 a paper was published by Crook III W.W., in Am. Mineral. 62(9-10), 1006-1008 "Texasite, a new mineral : the first example of a differentiated rare-earth species". The formula of the mineral was Pr2O2(SO4) (FYI : Pr = praseodymium). What was the point ? Until then, never a mineral had been found that contained only one of the rare earth metals as a cation. Even very selective minerals, such as bastn?site-(Ce) or thalenite-(Y) contain various other rare earth elements besides Ce resp. Y. In 1978 the find was reported also in the Mineralogical Record (Crook III W.W. (1978), "Texasite from Colorado", Mineral. Rec. 9(4), 251-252, including even a photo of the new mineral. Later on, in 1982, Peacor et al. published an article in the Am. Mineral. 67(1-2), 156-169, entitled "New data and discreditation of "texasite", "albrittonite", "cuproartinite", "cuprohydromagnesite" and "yttromicrolite", with corrected data on.......". In that contribution they described in detail that the so called new "mineral" was in fact a synthetic mineral, man-made from synthetic Pr2OSO4 that Crook obtained for his experiments from another researcher, J. Haschke. After a while colleagues discovered that the bottle of Pr2O2SO4 had disappeared from the lab. Eventually the "type-specimen" and synthetic Pr2O2SO4 were analysed by neutron activation analysis for trace elements, and in that way nearly the same fingerprint spectra were found for both products. Analogous problems arose with other "minerals" described by the same person. He described "albrittonite", and to illustrate it, he took a figure of liroconite and one of paralaurionite from Dana's system of Mineralogy. I verified this fact personally: take a look at the article in Am. Mineral. 63(3-4), 410-412 "Albrittonite, a new cobalt chloride hydrate from Oxford, Llano County, Texas" (1978) and compare firgure 1 with the figures in "The System of Mineralogy of J.D. Dana and E.S. Dana", John wiley & Sons, Inc. (3rd ed., 1949) on p. 65 (paralaurionite) and on p. 921 (liroconite). You can verify that the images are completely identical. For another "mineral", "cuprohydromagnesite", he used an image of pinakiolite from the same source, and more scientific investigations by W.W. Crook III appeared to lead to quite strange and spectacular results ! Following the Peacor et al. (1982) paper, Crook filed a lawsuit?his MS at the University of Michigan had been rescinded in 1980, and I (JBM) seem to remember that he sued American Mineralogist and the authors (and possibly UM) for defamation of character. I don?t think the questionable research was the issue. I remember how surprised I was when I learned that Crook won the case! I?m still looking for the notice of the results of the trial (I think it was in either American Mineralogist or the MSA newsletter in the early 1980?s). I don?t know if Crook got his degree back or not. I think the important part is for people to see how they can be fooled. Peacor et al?s. article gives a number of excellent suggestions that should help prevent another episode like this. Anyway, both of us tried to find any evidence on the outcome of the lawsuit, but couldn't find anything. I verified anyway that texasite did not show up again in e.g. the Glossary of Mineral Species. For readers who want the original references : both articles on texasite are directly accessible on the web : http://rruff.geo.arizona.edu/doclib/am/vol62/AM62_1006.pdf (the original article of W.W. Crook III) http://rruff.geo.arizona.edu/doclib/am/vol67/AM67_156.pdf (the discreditation of texasite by Peacor et al.) In the last article you can read every technical detail on the discovery and examinations of the fraud. BTW if you want more cases of fraud, go to http://www.ori.hhs.gov/education/products/unh_round1/www.unh.edu/rcr/Misconduct-FraudGoTo.htm, "Known or Suspected Cases of Scientific Fraud", a website of New Hampshire University. Most of the cases apparently have to do with... medicine and related stuff :>(( As I stated before : for me, the invention of the Internet (and related media) is as important to culture as the invention of book printing... Greetings (and my special thanks to Prof. Dr. James B. Murowchick (Jim) !), Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Wed Nov 9 10:54:07 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Wed Nov 9 10:50:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Texasite : the (more or less) complete story In-Reply-To: <200511091750.jA9HoDHR015232@outmx005.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <34F1C0E0-5152-11DA-9F17-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi Rik, The two web addresses you give for the "scientific fraud" list no longer work but this is the one at the University of New Hampshire - which still does work, and makes fascinating reading: http://www.unh.edu/rcr/Misconduct-FraudGoTo.htm Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 9 12:01:12 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Wed Nov 9 12:01:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] texasite? References: <436FFC7D.6090307@ncmail.net> <001401c5e4c2$82be11d0$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <000301c5e568$566c1310$78f1edc1@mpc1> > You shouldn't forget the most memorable part of the story, that the > author of these papers was named Wilson W. Crook. Actually it was better than that: W.W. Crook III. Mick From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Nov 9 12:01:16 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Nov 9 12:28:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Texasite : the (more or less) complete story In-Reply-To: <34F1C0E0-5152-11DA-9F17-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <200511092001.jA9K1IpC008432@outmx017.isp.belgacom.be> Hans, in my original message there was only one link. The reason why the first one didn't work was the fact that at the end the comma was included in the URL. Scratch the comma and it works ! It leads to the same page. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Hans Durstling Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:54 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Texasite : the (more or less) complete story Hi Rik, The two web addresses you give for the "scientific fraud" list no longer work but this is the one at the University of New Hampshire - which still does work, and makes fascinating reading: http://www.unh.edu/rcr/Misconduct-FraudGoTo.htm Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 13:17:22 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Nov 9 13:17:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? In-Reply-To: <001501c5e4ea$911ec440$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <001501c5e4ea$911ec440$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: I think Al meant that the forum was targeted at folks who accept scientific reality as known for the last 350 years. Not, and I don't want to bruise anyone's feelings, for the wacky fringe types. We have had rare and short threads about metaphysics but I don't think most of us want the list taken over by pyramid power and crystallomancy types. BK On 11/9/05, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > Who made this list a "technical" list??? According to the original intent > posted by Aaron Fox: > Rockhounds@drizzle list, a majordomo-managed unmoderated mailing list for > those interested in rock and mineral collecting, lapidary work and other > mineral-related hobbies. Where is any indication of the nature of the list > being a "technical forum"? When the discussions get too technical it's > really boring for me if not the majority of the list members. Maybe that's > why so few of the lurkers rarely post anything. There have hardly ever > been > discussions of lapidary subjects which is why I joined the list in the > first > place, other than "technical" stuff about Rock Saws. There are many many > facets of rock, gemstone, or mineral related hobbies AND/OR businesses. If > the posts don't interest you, don't read them, but starting a big whooha > about some posts being off-topic creates a bigger problem for the whole > list > than the original off-topic (to you) did in the first place. Let the LAG's > decide when something gets TOO far off-topic. > >From Aaron's original rules of the list: > "8) Semi-rock related postings:There are some postings that I allow to the > list that are indirectly related to rockhounding as a hobby. Most notable > are the messages regarding land-use and potential closures of large > stretches of public lands, many of which contain > valuable collecting resources. Here's the deal: I feel that these postings > are relevant to our hobby, and, so long as they are well-worded, > relatively > infrequent, and are posted BY LIST MEMBERS, I will allow them to continue. > > I'm sorry if you don't like having to delete them. If they truly bother > you > that much, email me personally, and I'll show you > how to set up an email filter to trap and eliminate such messages." > > I know of several people who had joined the list at my recommendation and > didn't stay long because (1) the topics were boring and (2) too much > complaining and sniping about what somebody else said. > > Jeanette > > > In a message dated 11/7/2005 11:41:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > albalmer@att.net writes: > > > > it is important for a technical forum to exert some effort to keep on > > topic, and this is the kind of thing the list administrators should be > > concerned with. It's much more insidious and has worse long-term effects > > than temporary ill-feelings and > > name-calling. It is all too easy for a technical list to be corrupted to > > the point of uselessness by allowing long discussions on every > > conceivable topic. > > > > Jeff wrote: > > Main Entry: rock hound > > Function: noun > > 1 : a specialist in geology > > 2 : an amateur rock and mineral collector > > > > That is one of 5 definitions found on Internet dictionaries for > > "rockhound" > > all listed essentially the same definition, and all included the word > > amateur > > or hobby in the definition. If this list is in fact a "technical forum" > > then > > your point is valid, but unless the rules state that it is such, then us > > "amateurs" have a voice and a right to broach subjects as well. > > > > "My vote would > > be for subjects directly related to rock collecting and mineralogy, with > > metaphysical postings referred to one of the many venues devoted to > > such." > > > > Are you excluding discussion of how rocks and minerals are used in daily > > life in this "vote"? If so then quite a few threads on this board in the > > past > > would not have been allowed. Metaphysics (not the con game aspect but > the > > theory > > and practice) is a use of rocks and minerals and should have a valid > place > > here. I am not advocating making the list a metaphysical clearinghouse, > > but > > threads that contain valid information should be allowed. That would be > > my > > "vote" > > > > Jeff > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 14:26:01 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Nov 9 14:25:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Naming minerals; was: The ultimate rock rock?(different spin on it) In-Reply-To: <43722739.22C81091@gmx.de> References: <21b.235599a.30a29efa@aol.com> <43714925.7090200@verizon.net> <43722739.22C81091@gmx.de> Message-ID: <43727779.3030001@verizon.net> Juergen Wachsmuth wrote: > Hello, > > dachiardite was named by Giovanni D'Achiardi after his father Antonio > D'Achiardi (1839-1902). Think what you want ... This happened in 1906, and > they had rules, but no IMA committee in charge at that time, as far as I > know. Very interesting. Thanks for the info! I was thinking of someone who named a mineral after his wife in the last few decades or something. Well, I am not going to dwell on the subject, it is trivia. best, Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 14:33:17 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Nov 9 14:32:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Texasite : the (more or less) complete story (postscript) In-Reply-To: <200511091750.jA9HoDHR015232@outmx005.isp.belgacom.be> References: <200511091750.jA9HoDHR015232@outmx005.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <4372792D.2040009@verizon.net> Rik Dillen wrote: > Hi all, > > In 1978 a paper was published by Crook III W.W., in Am. Mineral. 62(9-10), 1006-1008 "Texasite, a new mineral : the > first example of a differentiated rare-earth species". The formula of the mineral was Pr2O2(SO4) (FYI : Pr = > praseodymium). What was the point ? Until then, never a mineral had been found that contained only one of the rare earth > metals as a cation. Hi, There is some redemption in all this. The mineralogist Dennis Coskren discovered a number of naturally occurring rare earth species of similar structure, and Drs. Peacor and Essene did a lot of the descriptive work on them. Don From albalmer at att.net Wed Nov 9 14:50:30 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Nov 9 14:50:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? In-Reply-To: References: <001501c5e4ea$911ec440$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <43727D36.7000300@att.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > I think Al meant that the forum was targeted at folks who accept scientific > reality as known for the last 350 years. Not, and I don't want to bruise > anyone's feelings, for the wacky fringe types. We have had rare and short > threads about metaphysics but I don't think most of us want the list taken > over by pyramid power and crystallomancy types. > BK > > On 11/9/05, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: >> Who made this list a "technical" list??? According to the original intent >> posted by Aaron Fox: Thanks, BK, that's pretty close to what I meant, but apparently the word "technical" doesn't have the same connotations to some people that it does for me. I don't really know how else to put it, though I tried to expand on it in another post that was so long nobody read it :-) From davisj at earthlink.net Wed Nov 9 16:59:13 2005 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Wed Nov 9 16:59:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] off topic rocking? In-Reply-To: <43727D36.7000300@att.net> Message-ID: I am with Al!! Lets move on. Enough.. From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Nov 9 17:05:31 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Nov 9 17:07:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Admin] The off Topic Rockhounding Thread References: Message-ID: <0a6501c5e592$e2449ae0$12b4010a@warren> FYI, for every one who is commenting/asking on and OFF list...I hope to have the new basic site up this weekend, with the (tentative) new rules. No one is banned from posting on this thread as long as there are no personal attacks on people or on their opinions. But it would make more sense to yell at ME once the new stuff is posted! ;-) Thanks! Julie Siebel List-Owner and WAY reluctant admin...lol > > I am with Al!! Lets move on. Enough.. > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 9 17:45:01 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 9 17:42:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Favorite minerals References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466><001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1><00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> <7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com> <006d01c5e541$784d6460$938b4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <4372A575.1795@Tomaszewski.net> Larry, My guess would be that the crystal possibly grew across a thermal gradient, or more likely was later heated differentially to cause a color color change in the warmer portion. Kreigh Lawrence Rush wrote: > > One of my most interesting specimens was a self-collected beryl crystal from > a Connecticut pegmatite. About 4" in diameter, 6" long and doubly > terminated, it is undistinguished except for an unusual coloration. This guy > is pink on one half, and green on the other. Still not too unusual, I > suppose, but the color zonation runs diagonally across the prism face. That > is, from one side of the top basal termination to the other side of the > opposite basal termination (is that a contorted description?)...If you hold > the crystal upright, you would see pink on half the prism face, and green on > the other half of the same face, diagonally separated. The line of color > separation is very clean and sharp. You can see it just as well defined on > two opposing sides, and one base is pink and the other green. I am at a loss > to see how this happened. I can't see how the crystal growth could have > occurred this way, or a change in nutrients during formation, either. I > really would appreciate some ideas from you mineralogists out there. The > spec. was found in a large core zone in a feldspar quarry, associated with > lepidolite, schorl, rubellite, and microcline. > > (I can't post a picture as the specimen now lives in a Connecticut museum) > > Thanks.....Larry > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 9 17:57:38 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 9 17:54:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Teachers seeking cheap geodes References: Message-ID: <4372A869.5015@Tomaszewski.net> Weber Denise wrote: > > Hello. . . we are seeking to purchase about 400 inexpensive geodes to > give to our classes of students. Can you recommend a site that offers > real geodes for inexpensive prices? > > Sincerely, > > Denise Weber > > denise.weber@ww-p.org Denise, You might want to talk to Mike Sandstrom of the Geode Gallery (www.geodegallery.com). He has special pricing for teachers and scouts according to his website. I've been a customer of Mike's once or twice, and have known him from past discussions on this list. Kreigh From nate.gullimer at gmail.com Wed Nov 9 18:05:50 2005 From: nate.gullimer at gmail.com (Nate Gullimer) Date: Wed Nov 9 18:05:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Favorite minerals In-Reply-To: <006d01c5e541$784d6460$938b4c0c@LarryRush> References: <200511060900411.SM01428@mjce4712fb7466> <001e01c5e2f2$64e7e810$78f1edc1@mpc1> <00d801c5e322$bb6d1a90$6401a8c0@maingear> <7638cb73c85918eaddaabc69849dcec9@lrream.com> <006d01c5e541$784d6460$938b4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <2f16ceba0511091805y464538b7jc7e4402a5c9e5ba0@mail.gmail.com> My favorite specimen is Indian apophyllite. It is almost too difficult to describe the attractiveness of this specimen. It consists of a mass of fused green apophyllite upon which sit hundreds of perfectly formed, glassy, transparent crystals. There is a mixture of cubic and hexagonal cross-sections. Nearly all have sharp terminations and edges. It looks fantastic when illuminated. I'll try to post a photo when I get my digital camera up and running. -Nate On 11/10/05, Lawrence Rush wrote: > > One of my most interesting specimens was a self-collected beryl crystal > from > a Connecticut pegmatite. About 4" in diameter, 6" long and doubly > terminated, it is undistinguished except for an unusual coloration. This > guy > is pink on one half, and green on the other. Still not too unusual, I > suppose, but the color zonation runs diagonally across the prism face. > That > is, from one side of the top basal termination to the other side of the > opposite basal termination (is that a contorted description?)...If you > hold > the crystal upright, you would see pink on half the prism face, and green > on > the other half of the same face, diagonally separated. The line of color > separation is very clean and sharp. You can see it just as well defined on > two opposing sides, and one base is pink and the other green. I am at a > loss > to see how this happened. I can't see how the crystal growth could have > occurred this way, or a change in nutrients during formation, either. I > really would appreciate some ideas from you mineralogists out there. The > spec. was found in a large core zone in a feldspar quarry, associated with > lepidolite, schorl, rubellite, and microcline. > > (I can't post a picture as the specimen now lives in a Connecticut museum) > > Thanks.....Larry > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Russel.Gibaut at bp.com Wed Nov 9 17:59:08 2005 From: Russel.Gibaut at bp.com (Gibaut, Russel P) Date: Wed Nov 9 18:40:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]Fault lines in Houston area Message-ID: <5F6040D582013B4D9E632B4ED7BAC3D6F37BC9@BP1XEUEX020-C.bp1.ad.bp.com> Jeanette, I was cruising the web for fault lines in the galleria area in Houston. Do you have or know anyone who has this information? Thanks, Rachel --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Nov 9 18:46:21 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Nov 9 18:47:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]Fault lines in Houston area References: <5F6040D582013B4D9E632B4ED7BAC3D6F37BC9@BP1XEUEX020-C.bp1.ad.bp.com> Message-ID: <0acb01c5e5a0$f5a841a0$12b4010a@warren> FEI (for EVERYONE'S information - lol) This was a post to the list from a non member (we do get a few of those - like the teacher wanting geodes...). If you want to answer, you'll need to answer to her personally. Thanks, Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gibaut, Russel P" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 5:59 PM Subject: [Rockhounds]Fault lines in Houston area Jeanette, I was cruising the web for fault lines in the galleria area in Houston. Do you have or know anyone who has this information? Thanks, Rachel --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From webmaster at rockhoundstation1.com Wed Nov 9 19:38:05 2005 From: webmaster at rockhoundstation1.com (Sally Taylor) Date: Wed Nov 9 19:38:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction Message-ID: <005a01c5e5a8$29f118e0$d9cbe304@FREEDOM> Hi Fellow Rockhounds. I am new to the list. I am Sally, but usually called Sal. I am a foaming at the mouth, die hard rockhound and treasure hunter. My favorites are agate and crystals, but if it is there, I will find it. I am in SW Idaho, and anyone out here, or coming here, please give me a heads up and I will gladly give you some tips or even plan an outing with you. My email is included below. I have a website and am now running a series in my Gazette called "How I Got Addicted". If anyone wants to submit an article about their first find, send it out to me. Just my way of saying "Hi" to the community I support. -- Oh, you will get author credits and a live link to your site with your story, so if you have a site, it's a free ad for you. If you want to contact me: webmaster@rockhoundstation1.com Glad to meet you all. Hope to hear from some home area people soon. Sal Sally Taylor webmaster@rockhoundstation1.com http://www.rockhoundstation1.com Your Global Rockhound Center --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Nov 9 19:40:46 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Nov 9 19:40:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]Fault lines in Houston area References: <5F6040D582013B4D9E632B4ED7BAC3D6F37BC9@BP1XEUEX020-C.bp1.ad.bp.com> Message-ID: <003801c5e5a8$88e4f560$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> There is someone on the list from Houston who does have knowledge of the fault lines there....maybe he's listening in.. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gibaut, Russel P" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:59 PM Subject: [Rockhounds]Fault lines in Houston area Jeanette, I was cruising the web for fault lines in the galleria area in Houston. Do you have or know anyone who has this information? Thanks, Rachel From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 9 20:13:37 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 9 20:10:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]Fault lines in Houston area References: <5F6040D582013B4D9E632B4ED7BAC3D6F37BC9@BP1XEUEX020-C.bp1.ad.bp.com> <003801c5e5a8$88e4f560$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <4372C839.3DC4@Tomaszewski.net> I'm not in the Houston area, but the IRIS Seismic Monitor at http://www.iris.edu/seismon/ does a pretty good job of showing where earthquakes are occurring or have occurred. Another good source of fault line information is http://www.exploratorium.edu/faultline/edu.html and the USGS has some great information on their website, but I can't find the link at this time. Kreigh Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > There is someone on the list from Houston who does have knowledge of the > fault lines there....maybe he's listening in.. > Jeanette > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gibaut, Russel P" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:59 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds]Fault lines in Houston area > > Jeanette, I was cruising the web for fault lines in the galleria area in > Houston. Do you have or know anyone who has this information? Thanks, > Rachel From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Nov 9 20:15:25 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Nov 9 20:14:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Introduction In-Reply-To: <005a01c5e5a8$29f118e0$d9cbe304@FREEDOM> References: <005a01c5e5a8$29f118e0$d9cbe304@FREEDOM> Message-ID: <4372C95D.6070008@verizon.net> Sally Taylor wrote: > Hi Fellow Rockhounds. > > I am new to the list. I am Sally, but usually called Sal. > I am a foaming at the mouth, die hard rockhound and treasure hunter. My favorites are agate and crystals, but if it is there, I will find it. I am in SW Idaho, and anyone out here, or coming here, please give me a heads up and I will gladly give you some tips or even plan an outing with you. My email is included below. Hi! So where exactly do you live? Several of us live in the panhandle... Latah County and CdA, plus a few other Pac NW and Inlanders who aren't all that far away. There is some collecting up here; like you said, adventure is where you find it. Crystals in vesicular basalt, some fluorescent; well-preserved plant fossils, garnets, secondary copper minerals, cross-bedded water ripple marks preserved in quartzite (a rare thing they say) ... and lots of hexagonal basalt columns, if you can possibly move one. Welcome, and we will chat some more later. Best, Don From pttrefrn at triwest.net Wed Nov 9 20:39:43 2005 From: pttrefrn at triwest.net (Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron) Date: Wed Nov 9 20:36:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] the ultimate rock Message-ID: <001801c5e5b0$c59e0700$6400a8c0@triwest.net> This subject has generated a lot of thought and feeling for me. My ultimate rock is a hard, black mineral fossil of a turtle head the size of a medium egg that came out of the north atlantic. However, I discovered a rock ritual I had not heard of that gives another meaning to the topic--or could. I've been married to a person who comes from a religious Jewish family for 40 years, but only today, while attending the funeral of an aged cousin of his, did I notice that throughout the cemetery small rocks had been left on top of many of the larger gravestones. One rock here--four there--five over here-- two over there, and or 20 on a few gravestones. The small rocks were of all kinds, limestone to basalt, quartz and sandstone together...so, all mixed up, in any numbers, here and there throughout a very large cemetery. Upon asking I learned that these small rocks, left on the stone of a respected or loved one, are put there individually by those who come to the grave to remember, to communicate, simply to honor. And each one, I was told, says simply "I was here". I found this very moving, and had a sense that the "ultimate rock" can be very simple. Thanks for listening, folks. Pat Potter-Efron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Nov 9 20:48:20 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Nov 9 20:48:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] keeping lists on topic References: <001501c5e4ea$911ec440$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <43727D36.7000300@att.net> Message-ID: <005701c5e5b1$f997bb90$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> >From long experience on mailing lists, the best way to not let certain subjects take over the list is to ignore the post and/or the poster. No rebuttals, no snipes, no preaching, just ignore and wait it out. The subject will go away, and if the poster is really determined to stay on the list, will get the "hint" and post more appropriately. And this is the LAST comment on this subject.....I promise. Jeanette From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 9 21:44:47 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 9 21:44:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] the ultimate rock References: <001801c5e5b0$c59e0700$6400a8c0@triwest.net> Message-ID: <4372DE4B.F57@Tomaszewski.net> Flowers have generally replaced rock cairns. Thank you for reminding us of a tradition that is thousands of years old. Kreigh Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron wrote: > > This subject has generated a lot of thought and feeling for me. My ultimate rock is a hard, black mineral fossil of a turtle head the size of a medium egg that came out of the north atlantic. > > However, I discovered a rock ritual I had not heard of that gives another meaning to the topic--or could. I've been married to a person who comes from a religious Jewish family for 40 years, but only today, while attending the funeral of an aged cousin of his, did I notice that throughout the cemetery small rocks had been left on top of many of the larger gravestones. One rock here--four there--five over here-- two over there, and or 20 on a few gravestones. The small rocks were of all kinds, l > quartz and sandstone together...so, all mixed up, in any numbers, here and there throughout a very large cemetery. Upon asking I learned that these small rocks, left on the stone of a respected or loved one, are put there individually by those who come to the grave to remember, to communicate, simply to honor. And each one, I was told, says simply "I was here". I found this very moving, and had a sense that the "ultimate rock" can be very simple. > > Thanks for listening, folks. Pat Potter-Efron > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Wed Nov 9 22:47:47 2005 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (Sandra B. Gee) Date: Wed Nov 9 22:47:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]Fault lines in Houston area In-Reply-To: <003801c5e5a8$88e4f560$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <20051110064747.37005.qmail@web34202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jeanette, I think that the "Houston Fault Line Expert" is a listmember named Earl. Jeanette, if memory serves me correctly, he is a geologist who actually did some mapping of the fault lines here in Houston. I tried to get into the archives and do a search, but when I got into http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds, the Archives link was not active. I seem to recall a while back when the list was discussing the transition and what to do with the Archives, there was talk that Carol Bova (of Eclectic Lapidary) would somehow store the Rockhound Archives on her site. Please correct me if I am mistaken. One more thing--for Julie to clarify---If that gal Rachal with the email of Russel.Gibaut@bp.com is not a list member, then how was she able to post to the list? I thought that you had to join the list in order to post. Sandra B. Gee, MD --- Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > There is someone on the list from Houston who does > have knowledge of the > fault lines there....maybe he's listening in.. > Jeanette > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gibaut, Russel P" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:59 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds]Fault lines in Houston area > > > Jeanette, I was cruising the web for fault lines in > the galleria area in > Houston. Do you have or know anyone who has this > information? Thanks, > Rachel > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Thu Nov 10 00:02:01 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Thu Nov 10 00:04:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Naming minerals; was: The ultimate rockrock?(different spin on it) References: <21b.235599a.30a29efa@aol.com> <43714925.7090200@verizon.net><43722739.22C81091@gmx.de> <43727779.3030001@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001b01c5e5cd$4ea0e1f0$78f1edc1@mpc1> > Very interesting. Thanks for the info! I was thinking of someone who named > a mineral after his wife in the last few decades or something. Well, I am > not going to dwell on the subject, it is trivia. It most certainly is not trivia! The history of a science is a vital part of it. Mick From buff1 at ptd.net Thu Nov 10 04:01:38 2005 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Thu Nov 10 04:01:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cutwell 45 In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051108095755.0273a220@orerockon.com> References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051108095755.0273a220@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <437336A2.3060707@ptd.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > It sounds like the equivalent Standard Oil product, the name of which > escapes me at the moment. Richardson's Ranch has switched to that > product and is very happy with the reduced odor and better lubricating > properties. If you can find it, go for it! > > At 09:27 AM 11/8/2005, you wrote: > >> As an afterthought on the subject of saw lubricants, has anyone tried >> an Esso oil called "Cutwell 45"? A number of people who do cutting >> hereabouts say it has much less odor than Pella and yields a smoother >> cut. I haven't tried it myself and would be interested in hearing >> assessments from others who may have. >> >> Cheers again >> Hans Durstling >> Moncton, Canada > > A quick addition to this is the Sun oil companies offering of Sunpar.... it is a mineral oil used to coat the kneading hooks of commercial bakeries bread dough hooks. Hence, I suspect low toxicity and odor... I use it, it works.... From llbullbull at hotmail.com Thu Nov 10 05:56:12 2005 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Thu Nov 10 05:56:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Walworth, NY In-Reply-To: <436F7A95.6030201@att.net> Message-ID: Hello Al and Other List Members: This collecting weekend was sponsored by the Wayne County Mineral Club and NEFTA (New England Field Trip Alliance) as well as being the quarry's open house weekend. What this means is you had to join the Wayne County Mineral Club or be a member of another club that belongs to NEFTA. Thank you and the others I received comments from. Take care, Larry Bull >From: Al Balmer >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Walworth, NY >Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 09:02:29 -0700 > >Lawrence Bull wrote: >>An Excellent Weekend Adventure, Walworth, NY > >Thank you for the excellent report. It was nostalgic for me, since Walworth >was the first trip my wife and I made with the Rochester Mineral Society >years ago, and I got to watch Vandall King work half the day on one >beautiful fluorite specimen :-) We weren't allowed power equipment of any >kind. > >Was this trip sponsored by the RMS? >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From sapphiretrans at direcway.com Thu Nov 10 06:24:01 2005 From: sapphiretrans at direcway.com (Sapphire Transportation) Date: Thu Nov 10 06:24:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] lubricants Message-ID: <43735801.5090509@direcway.com> I just got a 6' saw/cabbing combo, a Star Diamond Industries model C-6D (I think). I got a generic bottle of water soluble oil with it. Anyone know how much oil I'm supposed to put in the water, and how much water I should use? Also, I'd like to be able to find a manual for this machine, if that's possible. Thanks! Diane From JScully216 at aol.com Thu Nov 10 06:56:53 2005 From: JScully216 at aol.com (JScully216@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 10 06:58:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1872 Mine Law Not Bad Enough -- threat to our forest freedom Message-ID: <1ab.4427c26d.30a4b9b5@aol.com> The Following is excerpted from the Nov. 9 Santa Fe New Mexican. This is of interest to anyone who uses our national parks, national forests and BLM lands for any purpose including: Rockhounding Rock climbing Hunting Hiking, backpacking, camping Cross country skiing ATV and snowmobiling Livestock grazing River Rafting Wood gathering etc. Hopefully, many of you will recognize that it is time to write to your representatives in congress. Please bear with my typing -- I could not get a digital copy of this and had to retype it. The truly awful parts of the article are in bold and underlines. 1872 Mine Law Not Bad Enough by John Leshy Santa Fe New Mexican, Nov. 9 A proposal quietly working its way through Congress could spark a fire sale of public lands, turning back the clock on a law that's already stuck in 1872. If it passes, areas in our national parks, forests and other special places could be among the first to go. Well over a century ago, to help the mining industry and Western settlement, Congress decided to sell federal lands to miners for no more than $5 per acre. Since then, the price of an ounce of gold has increased from almost twenty-fold, but -- thanks to the 1872 mining law -- the price of gold-bearing public lands has not changed one cent. As recently as 1994, the law gave a Canadian mining company title to public lands containing an estimated $10 billion worth of minerals for less than $10,000. In response to the massive publicity surrounding the sale, Congress enacted a bipartisan moratorium on the giveaway of federal lands. Today, companies can still mine on these lands, but they cannot buy them away from the public. A new budget reconciliation proposal by Rep. Richard Pombo, R-Calif., would end this ban and resume the privatization of our public lands. His bill requires the Interior Department to sell off lands for $1,000 an acre of the fair market value of the land surface, without regard for mineral value. Simply put, the "smash and grab" proposal would allow public lands worth their weight in precious metals to be sold to mining companies for a pittance. The bill also eliminates the requirement in the law since 1872 that companies actually discover valuable mineral deposits of public lands before they gain rights to exploit them. This rollback would dramatically increase mining companies control of public lands. Not satisfied with this liberalization of the discredited 1872 law, Pombo would also let private interests buy federal lands for purposes that have nothing to do with mining, such as building ski resorts, gaming casinos and strip malls on areas currently owned by the American public. Skipped 2 paragraphs Hikers, hunters and livestock grazers could find locked gates blocking their passage through previously public lands ? with the U.S. government powerless to do anything bout it. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Thu Nov 10 07:22:10 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Nov 10 07:22:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - was the ultimate rock In-Reply-To: <001801c5e5b0$c59e0700$6400a8c0@triwest.net> References: <001801c5e5b0$c59e0700$6400a8c0@triwest.net> Message-ID: <437365A2.7000105@att.net> Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron wrote: > This subject has generated a lot of thought and feeling for me. My > ultimate rock is a hard, black mineral fossil of a turtle head the > size of a medium egg that came out of the north atlantic. > > However, I discovered a rock ritual I had not heard of that gives > another meaning to the topic--or could. I've been married to a person > who comes from a religious Jewish family for 40 years, but only > today, while attending the funeral of an aged cousin of his, did I > notice that throughout the cemetery small rocks had been left on top > of many of the larger gravestones. One rock here--four there--five > over here-- two over there, and or 20 on a few gravestones. The > small rocks were of all kinds, limestone to basalt, quartz and > sandstone together...so, all mixed up, in any numbers, here and there > throughout a very large cemetery. Upon asking I learned that these > small rocks, left on the stone of a respected or loved one, are put > there individually by those who come to the grave to remember, to > communicate, simply to honor. And each one, I was told, says simply > "I was here". I found this very moving, and had a sense that the > "ultimate rock" can be very simple. An interesting example, even though it's more rock placing than collecting :-) It makes me think about people (mostly in the Far East who collect rocks not for their content, but their shape. They are usually rocks which have been shaped by centuries of water movement, and are highly collectible, some specimens bringing very high prices. It's usually called suiseki (I think that's the Japanese term) or in Korea, suseok. Does anyone else know of other types of rock collecting? From tim at orerockon.com Thu Nov 10 08:10:24 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 10 08:10:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1872 Mine Law Not Bad Enough -- threat to our forest freedom In-Reply-To: <1ab.4427c26d.30a4b9b5@aol.com> References: <1ab.4427c26d.30a4b9b5@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051110080243.026e6bb8@orerockon.com> A much more balanced and realistic story about this proposal (which has been news since at least 10/26) can be found by Googling "Pombo 1872 mining law". http://notes.sej.org/sej/tipsheet.nsf/0/334b2dfa7b40abd2862570b4007bb0d8?OpenDocument Even if it passes, which appears doubtful, there is no such rider in the Senate budget bill. The usual course of events is for such stupid riders to be dropped from the version of the bill sent to the President from Congress. At 06:56 AM 11/10/2005, you wrote: >The Following is excerpted from the Nov. 9 Santa Fe New Mexican. > >This is of interest to anyone who uses our national parks, national forests >and BLM lands for any purpose including: >Rockhounding >Rock climbing >Hunting >Hiking, backpacking, camping >Cross country skiing >ATV and snowmobiling >Livestock grazing >River Rafting >Wood gathering >etc. > >Hopefully, many of you will recognize that it is time to write to your >representatives in congress. Please bear with >my typing -- I could not get a >digital copy of this and had to retype it. The >truly awful parts of the article >are in bold and underlines. > >1872 Mine Law Not Bad Enough by John Leshy > >Santa Fe New Mexican, Nov. 9 A proposal quietly working its way through >Congress could spark a fire sale of public >lands, turning back the clock on a law >that's already stuck in 1872. If it passes, areas in our national parks, >forests and other special places could be among the first to go. > >Well over a century ago, to help the mining industry and Western settlement, >Congress decided to sell federal lands to miners for no more than $5 per >acre. Since then, the price of an ounce of gold has increased from almost >twenty-fold, but -- thanks to the 1872 mining >law -- the price of gold-bearing >public lands has not changed one cent. > >As recently as 1994, the law gave a Canadian mining company title to public >lands containing an estimated $10 billion worth of minerals for less than >$10,000. In response to the massive publicity surrounding the sale, Congress >enacted a bipartisan moratorium on the giveaway of federal lands. > >Today, companies can still mine on these lands, but they cannot buy them >away from the public. > >A new budget reconciliation proposal by Rep. Richard Pombo, R-Calif., would >end this ban and resume the privatization of our public lands. His bill >requires the Interior Department to sell off >lands for $1,000 an acre of the fair >market value of the land surface, without regard for mineral value. Simply >put, the "smash and grab" proposal would allow public lands worth their >weight in precious metals to be sold to mining companies for a pittance. > >The bill also eliminates the requirement in the law since 1872 that >companies actually discover valuable mineral >deposits of public lands before they >gain rights to exploit them. This rollback >would dramatically increase mining >companies control of public lands. > >Not satisfied with this liberalization of the discredited 1872 law, Pombo >would also let private interests buy federal lands for purposes that have >nothing to do with mining, such as building ski >resorts, gaming casinos and strip >malls on areas currently owned by the American public. > >Skipped 2 paragraphs > >Hikers, hunters and livestock grazers could find locked gates blocking their >passage through previously public lands ? with the U.S. government powerless >to do anything bout it. > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From JScully216 at aol.com Thu Nov 10 08:44:53 2005 From: JScully216 at aol.com (JScully216@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 10 08:44:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1872 Mine Law Not Bad Enough -- threat to our forest freedom Message-ID: <1d4.4906396b.30a4d305@aol.com> Tim Your message is somewhat of a relief, but I still would recommend people contact their congresspeople. I do not have a lot of faith in the rational behavior of Congress and would not want to take any chances. John Scully In a message dated 11/10/2005 9:11:45 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, tim@orerockon.com writes: A much more balanced and realistic story about this proposal (which has been news since at least 10/26) can be found by Googling "Pombo 1872 mining law". http://notes.sej.org/sej/tipsheet.nsf/0/334b2dfa7b40abd2862570b4007bb0d8?OpenD ocument Even if it passes, which appears doubtful, there is no such rider in the Senate budget bill. The usual course of events is for such stupid riders to be dropped from the version of the bill sent to the President from Congress. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Thu Nov 10 09:52:48 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Thu Nov 10 09:53:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] microscope discussion References: <1F01D3B2.49D878B4.02180873@aol.com> Message-ID: <042c01c5e61f$92e0ae20$6401a8c0@maingear> Okay guys ... for better or worse I went here: http://www.microscopestore.com/usedmicroscopes.asp?c=13&sec=73 and bought item number S #3 Nikon SM5. I will wait til I get it to buy an adapter for my camera. Can anyone recommend a good source for scope lighting? I found a couple of places that sell dual fiber optic systems but they are way out of my price range. Paul in Marietta From mike at colellaphoto.com Thu Nov 10 10:00:28 2005 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Thu Nov 10 10:00:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - Suiseki and viewing stones In-Reply-To: <437365A2.7000105@att.net> Message-ID: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> Suiseki, is Japanese meaning water stone and Gongshi or Scholar rocks. A brief explanation of Chinese stones by Kemin Hu from her web site: "In China, Chinese Scholars' Rocks or Spirit Stones are called Gongshi. Historically Gongshi has been appreciated by Chinese connoisseurs for more than a thousand years. As early as the Tang dynasty (618-907AD), scholar-officials and persons of refined tastes began appreciating their unusual forms by placing in their studios for indoor viewing smaller sized rare rocks formerly used in outdoor gardens. It was said that a garden could not be beautiful without such rare rocks, and that a studio lacked elegance without gongshi. They were also presented as tribute objects to emperors and were transported to Japan and Korea." Kemin Hu http://www.spirit-stones.com/ Basically the art of collecting stones that have a naturally formed shape which generally represents some object in nature; man, animal, mountain. Sometimes shapes are non descript, just interesting to look at. Also know as Viewing stones. Most often the stone is put on a nicely carved wooden base, to elevate it and make it stand out. Once a stone is collected, it is cleaned, and mounted either in a base called a Daiza, or if appropriate some are set in a ceramic suiban with either sand or water. Early on these stones were considered quite valuable and revered for their uniqueness. The art form began in China and soon spread to Japan. The Chinese are more known for their more vertically oriented stones, most notably the Lingbi rock from China. Japanese are more known for their horizontal stones, especially mountain stones. In the 60's the art began to catch on in California and has spread all over the world. Korea, Germany, Italy, who is known for their Palombini stones from Liguria are very popular, check out LUCIANA QUEIROLO's page on the Italian Suiseki World site http://www.geocities.com/~gaijin-ronin/ . I spent time collecting with her a couple years ago, amazing stones. Another Italian with a great collection is Marco Favero: http://www.geocities.com/~bogianen/ Felix Reviera heads the California Suiseki Society, a collector and photographer has some great stones, many desert worn stones: http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/ Kemin Hu, a young lady who has carried on the collection from her father has many classic Scholar rocks: http://www.spirit-stones.com/ Careful, it can become a very addictive addition to any rockhounders hobby. After I gave a talk at my club, everyone went home to see what they could find in their collections. I confess, I became addicted about 8 years ago when I saw an exhibit of stones by Jim Hayes in Philadelphia. The Ameriseki Chapter of the North American Viewing Stone Society. In Washington Dc we have the Potomac Viewing Stone Society who meets in the US National Arboretum which houses the 7 Suiseki stones given to the US during the 1976 Bi-centennial. http://www.bonsai-nbf.org/ Another link to see many world wide collectors: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/1666/viewingstones.htm many of the links are old and broken, but there is a lot of info there. A few of my stones can be seen on my site: http://colellaphoto.com click on Suiseki. Just Imagine.... Mike Michael J. Colella Web: http://colellaphoto.com E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Al Balmer Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:22 AM To: Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - was the ultimaterock > "ultimate rock" can be very simple. An interesting example, even though it's more rock placing than collecting :-) It makes me think about people (mostly in the Far East who collect rocks not for their content, but their shape. They are usually rocks which have been shaped by centuries of water movement, and are highly collectible, some specimens bringing very high prices. It's usually called suiseki (I think that's the Japanese term) or in Korea, suseok. Does anyone else know of other types of rock collecting? _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Nov 10 10:16:39 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Nov 10 10:16:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1872 Mine Law Not Bad Enough -- threat to our forest freedom In-Reply-To: <1ab.4427c26d.30a4b9b5@aol.com> References: <1ab.4427c26d.30a4b9b5@aol.com> Message-ID: <3afc576d6962cf59442d2f7cb60e2dcc@cox.net> JS, Hmmmm, there has got to be a way to have this totally evaluated. On the one hand, I hear of more rigid rules in National Parks against ATV's, and then this. What is really going on? Terrie From Paintricks at aol.com Thu Nov 10 10:31:08 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 10 10:31:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1872 Mine Law Not Bad Enough -- threat to our forest freedom Message-ID: <1c7.356e9221.30a4ebec@aol.com> In a message dated 11/10/2005 12:17:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, tam2819@cox.net writes: Hmmmm, there has got to be a way to have this totally evaluated. On the one hand, I hear of more rigid rules in National Parks against ATV's, and then this. In Colorado they limit ATV's to the trail only. The eco system is delicate and it takes a while for the areas driven over to recover. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Nov 10 12:38:50 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Nov 10 12:36:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] lubricants References: <43735801.5090509@direcway.com> Message-ID: <002201c5e636$c22d5360$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I have some RocKut that has directions to mix with water at 20 to 1, water to lubricant/rust inhibitor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sapphire Transportation" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 6:24 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] lubricants > I just got a 6' saw/cabbing combo, a Star Diamond Industries model C-6D > (I think). I got a generic bottle of water soluble oil with it. Anyone > know how much oil I'm supposed to put in the water, and how much water I > should use? Also, I'd like to be able to find a manual for this > machine, if that's possible. > > Thanks! > > Diane > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Nov 10 13:02:31 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 10 13:02:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - was the ultimaterock Message-ID: On this line: Hi Kitty! Please explain the little stacks of rock all over the islands. Mahalo! BTW, I am having a very difficult time deciding on my favorite...my first self collected shark tooth...a nice flourite specimen given to me while in my teens by Dr. Dix, a highly respected, deceased member of the Mobile Club...a really nice pink calcite specimen purchased at a show...a stone off a destroyed building of historical "infamy"...so many rocks so little time... I could go on and on...a chunk of malachite I'm currently polishing...self collected trilobites...any of a number of geodes... Pick one? You gotta be kiddin' me!!! Glenn From: Al Balmer <albalmer@att.net> Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron wrote: This subject has generated a lot of thought and feeling for me. My ultimate rock is a hard, black mineral fossil of a turtle head the size of a medium egg that came out of the north atlantic. However, I discovered a rock ritual I had not heard of that gives another meaning to the topic--or could. I've been married to a person who comes from a religious Jewish family for 40 years, but only today, while attending the funeral of an aged cousin of his, did I notice that throughout the cemetery small rocks had been left on top of many of the larger gravestones. One rock here--four there--five over here-- two over there, and or 20 on a few gravestones. The small rocks were of all kinds, limestone to basalt, quartz and sandstone together...so, all mixed up, in any numbers, here and there throughout a very large cemetery. Upon asking I learned that these small rocks, left on the stone of a respected or loved one, are put there individually by those who come to the grave to remember, to communicate, simply to honor. And each one, I was told, says simply "I was here". I found this very moving, and had a sense that the "ultimate rock" can be very simple. An interesting example, even though it's more rock placing than collecting :-) It makes me think about people (mostly in the Far East who collect rocks not for their content, but their shape. They are usually rocks which have been shaped by centuries of water movement, and are highly collectible, some specimens bringing very high prices. It's usually called suiseki (I think that's the Japanese term) or in Korea, suseok. Does anyone else know of other types of rock collecting? ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ MSN Premium brings together everything you need on the Internet in 1 place, including PC security! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From opalshow at socal.rr.com Thu Nov 10 07:09:36 2005 From: opalshow at socal.rr.com (American Opal Society) Date: Thu Nov 10 13:06:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] OPAL & GEM SHOW in Anaheim This Weekend!!! Message-ID: <037801c5e609$18b35ff0$6500a8c0@asusds> The American Opal Society proudly presents its: 38th Annual OPAL & GEM SHOW Come visit the Biggest Opal Show in the USA!!! WHAT: - The Show is open to the public. - Dozens of Opal and Gem Dealers from around the USA and Australia. - Rough and Cut Opals, Opal Jewelry, other gemstones, books, tools, etc. - Huge Raffle with many prizes of gemstones, jewelry, lapidary tools, etc. - Free Opal Seminars on Saturday and Sunday with Paid Admission. - Free Demonstrations on gemstone cutting, jewelry making, etc. - Silent Auction of Lapidary Equipment: 24" Diamond Saw, Faceting Machine, etc. WHEN: Saturday, 10am-6pm, November 12, 2005 Sunday, 10am-5pm, November 13, 2005 WHERE: Clarion Hotel Anaheim Resort 616 Convention Way, Anaheim, California 92802, Phone 714-750-3131 One Block South of Katella Ave. on Harbor Blvd. (Near the Anaheim Convention Center by Disneyland) ADMISSION: Adults $4.00, Seniors $3.00, Students with I.D. $3.00, Children under 15 FREE Parking with Validation $1.00 Bring a copy of this e-mail for $1.00 off any paid admission. INFORMATION: Contact: Fran Todd at (310) 987-0642, e-mail: toddle@aol.com or Jay Carey at (714) 525-7635, e-mail: jaycarey@charter.net http://www.opalsociety.org American Opal Society, Inc., P.O. Box 4875 Garden Grove, CA 92842-4875 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Thu Nov 10 14:02:35 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Thu Nov 10 14:02:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] lubricants References: <43735801.5090509@direcway.com> Message-ID: <004901c5e642$7562b3c0$f91571ce@marilyn> If you are not cutting turq or other porous colored rock, I recommend you use a cutting oil instead of water/conditioner. lots of brands have been mentioned lately on the list. If you don't and have a steel blade most saws do now days, as apposed to a copper blade, it will rust unless you take the water/conditioner out after each use. That is a pain. your saw blade is expensive usually and having it rust will seriously reduce your blade life. Sorry to all those who already know this. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sapphire Transportation" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 7:24 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] lubricants >I just got a 6' saw/cabbing combo, a Star Diamond Industries model C-6D (I >think). I got a generic bottle of water soluble oil with it. Anyone know >how much oil I'm supposed to put in the water, and how much water I should >use? Also, I'd like to be able to find a manual for this machine, if >that's possible. > Thanks! > > Diane > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From sapphiretrans at direcway.com Thu Nov 10 14:10:56 2005 From: sapphiretrans at direcway.com (Sapphire Transportation) Date: Thu Nov 10 14:11:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] lubricants In-Reply-To: <004901c5e642$7562b3c0$f91571ce@marilyn> References: <43735801.5090509@direcway.com> <004901c5e642$7562b3c0$f91571ce@marilyn> Message-ID: <4373C570.3060904@direcway.com> Thanks for your help, that is what I'll do! Diane Steve & Marilyn wrote: > If you are not cutting turq or other porous colored rock, I recommend > you use a cutting oil instead of water/conditioner. lots of brands > have been mentioned lately on the list. If you don't and have a steel > blade most saws do now days, as apposed to a copper blade, it will > rust unless you take the water/conditioner out after each use. That is > a pain. your saw blade is expensive usually and having it rust will > seriously reduce your blade life. Sorry to all those who already know > this. Steve > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sapphire Transportation" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 7:24 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] lubricants > > >> I just got a 6' saw/cabbing combo, a Star Diamond Industries model >> C-6D (I think). I got a generic bottle of water soluble oil with >> it. Anyone know how much oil I'm supposed to put in the water, and >> how much water I should use? Also, I'd like to be able to find a >> manual for this machine, if that's possible. >> Thanks! >> >> Diane >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pbhewitt at comcast.net Thu Nov 10 14:46:24 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Thu Nov 10 14:46:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetite in limestone References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> Message-ID: <047801c5e648$9455ec60$6401a8c0@maingear> I go to the old magnetite mine in Morgantown, Pa and I find limestone with magnetite in it. I was just wondering how common an occurence this is. Are there other localities in the states/world where that occurs? Paul From smtravis at plateautel.net Thu Nov 10 15:16:48 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Thu Nov 10 15:16:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetite in limestone References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> <047801c5e648$9455ec60$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <01db01c5e64c$d45c02f0$f91571ce@marilyn> There is some hemitite? I havent checked if it is magnetic in a dolomite near Queen NM. It is called star dolomite out here. Makes a pretty cab as the dolomite is reddish. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 3:46 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetite in limestone >I go to the old magnetite mine in Morgantown, Pa and I find limestone with >magnetite in it. I was just wondering how common an occurence this is. >Are there other localities in the states/world where that occurs? > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Nov 10 15:46:41 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Nov 10 15:46:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetite in limestone References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> <047801c5e648$9455ec60$6401a8c0@maingear> <01db01c5e64c$d45c02f0$f91571ce@marilyn> Message-ID: <00b101c5e650$ffcfd570$6402a8c0@remains> there is also a hematite in dolomite locality in Quebec, I believe. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve & Marilyn" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] magnetite in limestone > There is some hemitite? I havent checked if it is magnetic in a dolomite > near Queen NM. It is called star dolomite out here. Makes a pretty cab > as the dolomite is reddish. Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 3:46 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetite in limestone > > >>I go to the old magnetite mine in Morgantown, Pa and I find limestone with >>magnetite in it. I was just wondering how common an occurence this is. >>Are there other localities in the states/world where that occurs? >> >> Paul >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From folmstead at rcn.com Thu Nov 10 19:22:14 2005 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Thu Nov 10 23:38:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - Suiseki and viewing stones In-Reply-To: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> Message-ID: <43740E66.7000406@rcn.com> HAVE YOU CHECKED OUT THE NATIONAL ARBORETUM IN DC? INSIDE IN BONSAI BUILDING. SOME NICE SAMPLES THERE. GMO __..--..__..--..__ Michael J. Colella wrote: >Suiseki, is Japanese meaning water stone and Gongshi or Scholar rocks. A >brief explanation of Chinese stones by Kemin Hu from her web site: > "In China, Chinese Scholars' Rocks or Spirit Stones are called >Gongshi. Historically Gongshi has been appreciated by Chinese connoisseurs >for more than a thousand years. As early as the Tang dynasty (618-907AD), >scholar-officials and persons of refined tastes began appreciating their >unusual forms by placing in their studios for indoor viewing smaller sized >rare rocks formerly used in outdoor gardens. It was said that a garden could >not be beautiful without such rare rocks, and that a studio lacked elegance >without gongshi. They were also presented as tribute objects to emperors and >were transported to Japan and Korea." Kemin Hu http://www.spirit-stones.com/ > > Basically the art of collecting stones that have a naturally formed shape >which generally represents some object in nature; man, animal, mountain. >Sometimes shapes are non descript, just interesting to look at. Also know as >Viewing stones. Most often the stone is put on a nicely carved wooden base, >to elevate it and make it stand out. >Once a stone is collected, it is cleaned, and mounted either in a base >called a Daiza, or if appropriate some are set in a ceramic suiban with >either sand or water. >Early on these stones were considered quite valuable and revered for their >uniqueness. The art form began in China and soon spread to Japan. The >Chinese are more known for their more vertically oriented stones, most >notably the Lingbi rock from China. Japanese are more known for their >horizontal stones, especially mountain stones. > In the 60's the art began to catch on in California and has spread all >over the world. Korea, Germany, Italy, who is known for their Palombini >stones from Liguria are very popular, check out LUCIANA QUEIROLO's page on >the Italian Suiseki World site http://www.geocities.com/~gaijin-ronin/ . I >spent time collecting with her a couple years ago, amazing stones. Another >Italian with a great collection is Marco Favero: >http://www.geocities.com/~bogianen/ > >Felix Reviera heads the California Suiseki Society, a collector and >photographer has some great stones, many desert worn stones: >http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/ >Kemin Hu, a young lady who has carried on the collection from her father has >many classic Scholar rocks: http://www.spirit-stones.com/ >Careful, it can become a very addictive addition to any rockhounders hobby. >After I gave a talk at my club, everyone went home to see what they could >find in their collections. I confess, I became addicted about 8 years ago >when I saw an exhibit of stones by Jim Hayes in Philadelphia. >The Ameriseki Chapter of the North American Viewing Stone Society. >In Washington Dc we have the Potomac Viewing Stone Society who meets in the >US National Arboretum which houses the 7 Suiseki stones given to the US >during the 1976 Bi-centennial. http://www.bonsai-nbf.org/ > >Another link to see many world wide collectors: >http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/1666/viewingstones.htm many of the >links are old and broken, but there is a lot of info there. >A few of my stones can be seen on my site: http://colellaphoto.com click on >Suiseki. > >Just Imagine.... >Mike > > >Michael J. Colella >Web: http://colellaphoto.com >E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Al Balmer >Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:22 AM >To: Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list >for rock and gem collectors >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - was the >ultimaterock > > > >>"ultimate rock" can be very simple. >> >> > >An interesting example, even though it's more rock placing than >collecting :-) It makes me think about people (mostly in the Far East >who collect rocks not for their content, but their shape. They are >usually rocks which have been shaped by centuries of water movement, and >are highly collectible, some specimens bringing very high prices. It's >usually called suiseki (I think that's the Japanese term) or in Korea, >suseok. > >Does anyone else know of other types of rock collecting? >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Nov 10 18:39:59 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 10 23:40:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favorite rock. References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> Message-ID: <00b801c5e669$358dd7d0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael J. Colella" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - Suiseki and viewing stones >> Basically the art of collecting stones that have a naturally formed shape > which generally represents some object in nature; man, animal, mountain. Can one of my favorite rocks be one I didn't "collect"? I took a picture of a rock formation coming down Mauna Kea in Hawaii. I saw it go by and made Glenn back up the Dodge Neon we rented (yes, we made it up Mauna Kea in a Neon) and shot this picture here http://geenet611.com/gallery/album02/Hawaii_Mauna_Kea_rock_formations?full=1 When I read the description of Suiseki I immediately thought of them, my rock creatures I left in Hawaii. Don't ask me how many rocks I DID get out of Hawaii....I'll never tell. Jeanette From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Nov 10 16:23:05 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Nov 10 23:43:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kyana Geological Society Show Nov. 11 - 13 Message-ID: <004401c5e656$16e528a0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> This is especially for anyone in the middle Ohio Valley. What: 34th Kyana Geological Society Show Where: Louisville, Kentucky, Executive Inn* When: Nov. 11 - 13 Friday - Saturday 10:00am - 7:00pm Sunday 10:00am - 6:00pm *Located at I-264 and Phillips Lane, adjacent to the airport and Kentucky State Fair & Exposition Center Minerals, fossils, lapidary, more... Dealers from all over Door prizes See: http://www.kyanageo.org/showflier.htm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Nov 10 16:38:25 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Nov 10 23:43:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - Suiseki and viewingstones References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> Message-ID: <007501c5e658$3a965b50$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I've had a stone that would qualify as natural sculpture since the late 1960's. It is an 18" piece of limestone with one large hole and other partial holes around the edges collected in a creek by my dad. These holes are in the 4" diameter range and the whole piece is very smooth (as far as nature can go anyway). It is heavy, too. It use to be a curb stone at my parents house -- I had to rescue it from the back of a garbage truck during a junk pick up. After that, I kept it by the house. It has followed me to several rental places and now is a permanent part of my front garden. It is from Salem Limestone, which is the famous "Indiana Limestone" used widely in the U.S. in art and architecture. As JR can attest, I have a lot of unique rocks, minerals and fossils in my gardens: etched calcite crystals to 18" from Danville, KY; a yellow & purple fluorite boulder composed of two partial crystals (almost octahedrons) about 9" on edge (about 16" x 16") and sphalerite boulders (the sphalerite is like sand in sandstone and still sparkles like glitter 18 years later) from the Annabel Lee mine. What can I say? Even as a child I've known that rocks & minerals can be natural art that is as good as anything fashioned by the human hand. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael J. Colella" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 1:00 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - Suiseki and viewingstones > Suiseki, is Japanese meaning water stone and Gongshi or Scholar rocks. A > brief explanation of Chinese stones by Kemin Hu from her web site: > "In China, Chinese Scholars' Rocks or Spirit Stones are called > Gongshi. Historically Gongshi has been appreciated by Chinese connoisseurs > for more than a thousand years. As early as the Tang dynasty (618-907AD), > scholar-officials and persons of refined tastes began appreciating their > unusual forms by placing in their studios for indoor viewing smaller sized > rare rocks formerly used in outdoor gardens. It was said that a garden > could > not be beautiful without such rare rocks, and that a studio lacked > elegance > without gongshi. They were also presented as tribute objects to emperors > and > were transported to Japan and Korea." Kemin Hu > http://www.spirit-stones.com/ > > Basically the art of collecting stones that have a naturally formed shape > which generally represents some object in nature; man, animal, mountain. > Sometimes shapes are non descript, just interesting to look at. Also know > as > Viewing stones. Most often the stone is put on a nicely carved wooden > base, > to elevate it and make it stand out. > Once a stone is collected, it is cleaned, and mounted either in a base > called a Daiza, or if appropriate some are set in a ceramic suiban with > either sand or water. > Early on these stones were considered quite valuable and revered for their > uniqueness. The art form began in China and soon spread to Japan. The > Chinese are more known for their more vertically oriented stones, most > notably the Lingbi rock from China. Japanese are more known for their > horizontal stones, especially mountain stones. > In the 60's the art began to catch on in California and has spread all > over the world. Korea, Germany, Italy, who is known for their Palombini > stones from Liguria are very popular, check out LUCIANA QUEIROLO's page on > the Italian Suiseki World site http://www.geocities.com/~gaijin-ronin/ . I > spent time collecting with her a couple years ago, amazing stones. Another > Italian with a great collection is Marco Favero: > http://www.geocities.com/~bogianen/ > > Felix Reviera heads the California Suiseki Society, a collector and > photographer has some great stones, many desert worn stones: > http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/ > Kemin Hu, a young lady who has carried on the collection from her father > has > many classic Scholar rocks: http://www.spirit-stones.com/ > Careful, it can become a very addictive addition to any rockhounders > hobby. > After I gave a talk at my club, everyone went home to see what they could > find in their collections. I confess, I became addicted about 8 years ago > when I saw an exhibit of stones by Jim Hayes in Philadelphia. > The Ameriseki Chapter of the North American Viewing Stone Society. > In Washington Dc we have the Potomac Viewing Stone Society who meets in > the > US National Arboretum which houses the 7 Suiseki stones given to the US > during the 1976 Bi-centennial. http://www.bonsai-nbf.org/ > > Another link to see many world wide collectors: > http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/1666/viewingstones.htm many of the > links are old and broken, but there is a lot of info there. > A few of my stones can be seen on my site: http://colellaphoto.com click > on > Suiseki. > > Just Imagine.... > Mike > > > Michael J. Colella > Web: http://colellaphoto.com > E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Al Balmer > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:22 AM > To: Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing > list > for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - was the > ultimaterock > >> "ultimate rock" can be very simple. > > An interesting example, even though it's more rock placing than > collecting :-) It makes me think about people (mostly in the Far East > who collect rocks not for their content, but their shape. They are > usually rocks which have been shaped by centuries of water movement, and > are highly collectible, some specimens bringing very high prices. It's > usually called suiseki (I think that's the Japanese term) or in Korea, > suseok. > > Does anyone else know of other types of rock collecting? > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From afox at panix.com Thu Nov 10 22:22:01 2005 From: afox at panix.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Fri Nov 11 00:31:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Test message, please delete Message-ID: Ignore this message. This is a test. From mike at colellaphoto.com Fri Nov 11 05:35:07 2005 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Fri Nov 11 05:35:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favorite rock. In-Reply-To: <00b801c5e669$358dd7d0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <200511110835337.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> Nice photo, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. Just look out there and use your imagination. Mike Michael J. Colella Web: http://colellaphoto.com E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jeanette Wimpee Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 9:40 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favorite rock. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael J. Colella" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - Suiseki and viewing stones >> Basically the art of collecting stones that have a naturally formed shape > which generally represents some object in nature; man, animal, mountain. Can one of my favorite rocks be one I didn't "collect"? I took a picture of a rock formation coming down Mauna Kea in Hawaii. I saw it go by and made Glenn back up the Dodge Neon we rented (yes, we made it up Mauna Kea in a Neon) and shot this picture here http://geenet611.com/gallery/album02/Hawaii_Mauna_Kea_rock_formations?full=1 When I read the description of Suiseki I immediately thought of them, my rock creatures I left in Hawaii. Don't ask me how many rocks I DID get out of Hawaii....I'll never tell. Jeanette _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mike at colellaphoto.com Fri Nov 11 06:10:10 2005 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Fri Nov 11 06:10:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - Suiseki and viewing stones In-Reply-To: <007501c5e658$3a965b50$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <20051111091036.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> Limestones play a major role in this type of collecting. Lingbi is a black limestone, VERY hard, it actually rings when u tap it. The palombini rock is also a type of limestone, Karst formations that form interesting shapes as ground water and chemicals erode away the rock. As you learn more about viewing stones there are many "rules" about what 'makes' a stone really worthy of being considered Suiseki according to the purest collectors. Qualities like: shape, balance, color, hardness, texture, to name a few. Ideally, asymmetrical balance, dark colors preferred, harder the better, smooth surface (naturally weathered, not man polished). Again these are some of the 'perfect' qualities. Although, as times change and the art form has spread around the world, and has taken on a whole variety of new looks. The rough wind /sand blasted stones of the desert regions have produced some awesome pieces, namely the collection of the late Melba Tucker. She has a wonderful book called 'Suiseki and Viewing Stones'. The Ligurian stones of Italy. For anyone who becomes seriously interested here's a list of some must haves in your library: The Japanese Art Of Stone Appreciation by Covello & Yoshimura, (presents a very straight forward explanation of basic qualities of stones) World Within Worlds, The Richard Rosenblum Collection of Chinese Scholars' Rocks by Mowry. Unbelievable stones, mostly old ones. Scholars' Rocks In Ancient China by Kermin Hu Awakening The Soul, The National Viewing Stone Collection, by Jim Hayes These are all great books and well photographed. Mike Colella Photography Web: http://colellaphoto.com E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Alan Goldstein Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 7:38 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - Suiseki andviewingstones I've had a stone that would qualify as natural sculpture since the late 1960's. It is an 18" piece of limestone with one large hole and other partial holes around the edges collected in a creek by my dad. These holes are in the 4" diameter range and the whole piece is very smooth (as far as nature can go anyway). It is heavy, too. It use to be a curb stone at my parents house -- I had to rescue it from the back of a garbage truck during a junk pick up. After that, I kept it by the house. It has followed me to several rental places and now is a permanent part of my front garden. It is from Salem Limestone, which is the famous "Indiana Limestone" used widely in the U.S. in art and architecture. As JR can attest, I have a lot of unique rocks, minerals and fossils in my gardens: etched calcite crystals to 18" from Danville, KY; a yellow & purple fluorite boulder composed of two partial crystals (almost octahedrons) about 9" on edge (about 16" x 16") and sphalerite boulders (the sphalerite is like sand in sandstone and still sparkles like glitter 18 years later) from the Annabel Lee mine. What can I say? Even as a child I've known that rocks & minerals can be natural art that is as good as anything fashioned by the human hand. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael J. Colella" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 1:00 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - Suiseki and viewingstones > Suiseki, is Japanese meaning water stone and Gongshi or Scholar rocks. A > brief explanation of Chinese stones by Kemin Hu from her web site: > "In China, Chinese Scholars' Rocks or Spirit Stones are called > Gongshi. Historically Gongshi has been appreciated by Chinese connoisseurs > for more than a thousand years. As early as the Tang dynasty (618-907AD), > scholar-officials and persons of refined tastes began appreciating their > unusual forms by placing in their studios for indoor viewing smaller sized > rare rocks formerly used in outdoor gardens. It was said that a garden > could > not be beautiful without such rare rocks, and that a studio lacked > elegance > without gongshi. They were also presented as tribute objects to emperors > and > were transported to Japan and Korea." Kemin Hu > http://www.spirit-stones.com/ > > Basically the art of collecting stones that have a naturally formed shape > which generally represents some object in nature; man, animal, mountain. > Sometimes shapes are non descript, just interesting to look at. Also know > as > Viewing stones. Most often the stone is put on a nicely carved wooden > base, > to elevate it and make it stand out. > Once a stone is collected, it is cleaned, and mounted either in a base > called a Daiza, or if appropriate some are set in a ceramic suiban with > either sand or water. > Early on these stones were considered quite valuable and revered for their > uniqueness. The art form began in China and soon spread to Japan. The > Chinese are more known for their more vertically oriented stones, most > notably the Lingbi rock from China. Japanese are more known for their > horizontal stones, especially mountain stones. > In the 60's the art began to catch on in California and has spread all > over the world. Korea, Germany, Italy, who is known for their Palombini > stones from Liguria are very popular, check out LUCIANA QUEIROLO's page on > the Italian Suiseki World site http://www.geocities.com/~gaijin-ronin/ . I > spent time collecting with her a couple years ago, amazing stones. Another > Italian with a great collection is Marco Favero: > http://www.geocities.com/~bogianen/ > > Felix Reviera heads the California Suiseki Society, a collector and > photographer has some great stones, many desert worn stones: > http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/ > Kemin Hu, a young lady who has carried on the collection from her father > has > many classic Scholar rocks: http://www.spirit-stones.com/ > Careful, it can become a very addictive addition to any rockhounders > hobby. > After I gave a talk at my club, everyone went home to see what they could > find in their collections. I confess, I became addicted about 8 years ago > when I saw an exhibit of stones by Jim Hayes in Philadelphia. > The Ameriseki Chapter of the North American Viewing Stone Society. > In Washington Dc we have the Potomac Viewing Stone Society who meets in > the > US National Arboretum which houses the 7 Suiseki stones given to the US > during the 1976 Bi-centennial. http://www.bonsai-nbf.org/ > > Another link to see many world wide collectors: > http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Garden/1666/viewingstones.htm many of the > links are old and broken, but there is a lot of info there. > A few of my stones can be seen on my site: http://colellaphoto.com click > on > Suiseki. > > Just Imagine.... > Mike > > > Michael J. Colella > Web: http://colellaphoto.com > E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Al Balmer > Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:22 AM > To: Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing > list > for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - was the > ultimaterock > >> "ultimate rock" can be very simple. > > An interesting example, even though it's more rock placing than > collecting :-) It makes me think about people (mostly in the Far East > who collect rocks not for their content, but their shape. They are > usually rocks which have been shaped by centuries of water movement, and > are highly collectible, some specimens bringing very high prices. It's > usually called suiseki (I think that's the Japanese term) or in Korea, > suseok. > > Does anyone else know of other types of rock collecting? > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Nov 11 09:49:16 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Nov 11 09:46:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favorite rock. References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> <00b801c5e669$358dd7d0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <000701c5e6e8$3d17d3a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Here is some of my Suiseki: http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=742289 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favorite rock. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael J. Colella" > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - Suiseki and > viewing stones > > > >> Basically the art of collecting stones that have a naturally formed shape > > which generally represents some object in nature; man, animal, mountain. > > Can one of my favorite rocks be one I didn't "collect"? I took a picture of > a rock formation coming down Mauna Kea in Hawaii. I saw it go by and made > Glenn back up the Dodge Neon we rented (yes, we made it up Mauna Kea in a > Neon) and shot this picture here > http://geenet611.com/gallery/album02/Hawaii_Mauna_Kea_rock_formations?full=1 > When I read the description of Suiseki I immediately thought of them, my > rock creatures I left in Hawaii. > Don't ask me how many rocks I DID get out of Hawaii....I'll never tell. > Jeanette > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mike at colellaphoto.com Fri Nov 11 09:53:05 2005 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Fri Nov 11 09:53:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favorite rock. In-Reply-To: <000701c5e6e8$3d17d3a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <200511111253902.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> Jay, nice, I have been working more with natural root bases myself. Mike Web: http://colellaphoto.com E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 12:49 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favorite rock. Here is some of my Suiseki: http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=742289 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favorite rock. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael J. Colella" > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - Suiseki and > viewing stones > > > >> Basically the art of collecting stones that have a naturally formed shape > > which generally represents some object in nature; man, animal, mountain. > > Can one of my favorite rocks be one I didn't "collect"? I took a picture of > a rock formation coming down Mauna Kea in Hawaii. I saw it go by and made > Glenn back up the Dodge Neon we rented (yes, we made it up Mauna Kea in a > Neon) and shot this picture here > http://geenet611.com/gallery/album02/Hawaii_Mauna_Kea_rock_formations?full=1 > When I read the description of Suiseki I immediately thought of them, my > rock creatures I left in Hawaii. > Don't ask me how many rocks I DID get out of Hawaii....I'll never tell. > Jeanette > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Nov 11 09:59:39 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 11 10:01:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting - Suiseki and viewing stones References: <20051111091036.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> Message-ID: <005201c5e6e9$bb693590$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> This is yet another aspect of rock collecting to add to our interests. Very cool pictures at the links. Looking at these stones "takes you away" better than Calgon. Of course I have always like Bonsai too. Tried that, but I have to have plants that will survive neglect, like orchids. At least you don't have to water and feed rocks. I do have a rock in one of my aquariums that looks like the mountains in Chinese art. I think I'll rescue it from there and put it on it's own stand and call it Suiseki. Jeanette From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Nov 11 10:02:49 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 11 10:04:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favoriterock. References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466><00b801c5e669$358dd7d0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <000701c5e6e8$3d17d3a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <006001c5e6ea$50fb4f30$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> That is a beautiful marriage of art and rockhounding. Bravo! Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" > Here is some of my Suiseki: > http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=742289 > ----- Original Message ----- From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Nov 11 10:43:28 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Nov 11 10:40:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favoriterock. References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466><00b801c5e669$358dd7d0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><000701c5e6e8$3d17d3a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <006001c5e6ea$50fb4f30$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <000501c5e6ef$cebb97e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> In my mind they are not mutually exclusive. I only wish I could capture the scenery and add it to the mix. Gnarly wood, petrified or otherwise, captures the weather and sense of place. I have tried to capture some of the scenery in my case displays, not too successfully I might add. http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/case2004.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favoriterock. > That is a beautiful marriage of art and rockhounding. Bravo! > Jeanette > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > > > > Here is some of my Suiseki: > > http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mcrocks/vpost?id=742289 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Nov 11 11:11:11 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 11 11:11:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favoriterock. References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466><00b801c5e669$358dd7d0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><000701c5e6e8$3d17d3a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <006001c5e6ea$50fb4f30$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <000501c5e6ef$cebb97e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <001d01c5e6f3$ad9e6ed0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> What if you got a shallow tray and filled it with desert sand and gravel, then placed the pieces on that with the backdrop. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favoriterock. > In my mind they are not mutually exclusive. I only wish I could capture > the > scenery and add it to the mix. Gnarly wood, petrified or otherwise, > captures > the weather and sense of place. I have tried to capture some of the > scenery > in my case displays, not too successfully I might add. > > http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/case2004.jpg > From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Nov 11 11:20:47 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Nov 11 11:18:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favoriterock. References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466><00b801c5e669$358dd7d0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><000701c5e6e8$3d17d3a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><006001c5e6ea$50fb4f30$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><000501c5e6ef$cebb97e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <001d01c5e6f3$ad9e6ed0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <000701c5e6f5$05e50bc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I did put sand in the bottom of the case. I have a better picture of my case but I am having trouble getting rid of the old picture and substituting the better picture. My wife hates that picture of her and I have been told to get rid of it and it just keeps coming back. If she find out that I have plastered it all over the internet I am doomed! (:-( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favoriterock. > What if you got a shallow tray and filled it with desert sand and gravel, > then placed the pieces on that with the backdrop. > Jeanette > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 12:43 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my > favoriterock. > > > > In my mind they are not mutually exclusive. I only wish I could capture > > the > > scenery and add it to the mix. Gnarly wood, petrified or otherwise, > > captures > > the weather and sense of place. I have tried to capture some of the > > scenery > > in my case displays, not too successfully I might add. > > > > http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/case2004.jpg > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 11 15:32:29 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 11 15:31:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] need to buy: topaz fragements or micro xtls (Thomas Range is good!) In-Reply-To: <000701c5e6f5$05e50bc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466><00b801c5e669$358dd7d0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><000701c5e6e8$3d17d3a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><006001c5e6ea$50fb4f30$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><000501c5e6ef$cebb97e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <001d01c5e6f3$ad9e6ed0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <000701c5e6f5$05e50bc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <43752A0D.3070609@verizon.net> Hi all, I'm looking to buy some small topaz fragments, or little topaz crystals such as the Thomas Range, Utah, type. The good news is they can be broken since they're going to get broken anyway. They just need to be clear. Why? We are doing some experiments that involve displaying the narrow 2V value of optical intereference figures of biaxial minerals in polarized light. That doesn't mean much to most people, but the interesting part is that topaz is one of the few, common, transparent minerals that meet this criteria. Please contact me off-list with price and description. Thanks, Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 11 15:45:21 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 11 15:44:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] need to buy: topaz fragements or micro xtls (Thomas Range is good!) In-Reply-To: <43752A0D.3070609@verizon.net> References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466><00b801c5e669$358dd7d0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><000701c5e6e8$3d17d3a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><006001c5e6ea$50fb4f30$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><000501c5e6ef$cebb97e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <001d01c5e6f3$ad9e6ed0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <000701c5e6f5$05e50bc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <43752A0D.3070609@verizon.net> Message-ID: <43752D11.8090606@verizon.net> DonH wrote: > > Hi all, > > I'm looking to buy some small topaz fragments, or little topaz crystals > such as the Thomas Range, Utah, type. Scratch that! Here is a "duh" moment: most of us have those little Mohs hardness kits with mineral samples in them. What is hardness 8? Topaz! Sure enough there is a nice big clear piece in my hardness kit. Of course I'm risking my grade when I tell my advisor, "Did you try looking in the hardness kits in the 101 lab?" Sometimes the simplest solution is right in front of you. So much for a college education. Best to all, Don From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Nov 11 16:20:54 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 11 16:20:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] need to buy: topaz fragements or micro xtls (ThomasRange is good!) In-Reply-To: <43752D11.8090606@verizon.net> Message-ID: That's the way it usually is...electrical engineers forget to plug the non-working device in... Glenn From: DonH <donhalterman@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] need to buy: topaz fragements or micro xtls (ThomasRange is good!) DonH wrote: Hi all, I'm looking to buy some small topaz fragments, or little topaz crystals such as the Thomas Range, Utah, type. Scratch that! Here is a "duh" moment: most of us have those little Mohs hardness kits with mineral samples in them. What is hardness 8? Topaz! Sure enough there is a nice big clear piece in my hardness kit. Of course I'm risking my grade when I tell my advisor, "Did you try looking in the hardness kits in the 101 lab?" Sometimes the simplest solution is right in front of you. So much for a college education. Best to all, Don ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From agesilaus at gmail.com Fri Nov 11 16:51:26 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Nov 11 16:51:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Big meteorite find in Kansas Message-ID: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051111/ap_on_sc/giant_meteorite_1 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 11 17:08:38 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 11 17:03:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetite in limestone References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> <047801c5e648$9455ec60$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <43753F62.9C4@Tomaszewski.net> Paul wrote: > > I go to the old magnetite mine in Morgantown, Pa and I find limestone with > magnetite in it. I was just wondering how common an occurence this is. Are > there other localities in the states/world where that occurs? > > Paul > There are a couple locations in Michigan. Also magnetite in chert and in sandstone. Kreigh From hammerron at yahoo.com Fri Nov 11 17:21:20 2005 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Fri Nov 11 17:21:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Worcester, MA Gem and Mineral Show Nov 19-20 Message-ID: <20051112012120.64600.qmail@web81411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The Worcester Mineral Club will be holding their 30th annual show November 19-20, 2005 Saturday and Sunday 10am to 5pm at the National Guard Armory, 701 Lincoln Street, Worcester, MA Take I-290, exit 22, Main Street Shrewsbury towards Worcester, through light, up hill, armory and parking on left. 16 Dealers, Exhibits, Hourly Door Prizes, Raffle, Snacks, Unique Gifts. http://www.worcestermineralclub.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dnorris at frii.com Fri Nov 11 20:15:00 2005 From: dnorris at frii.com (Donald Norris) Date: Fri Nov 11 20:15:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favorite rock. References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> <00b801c5e669$358dd7d0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <012e01c5e73f$a63208e0$020aa8c0@Don> Hi, I am on a list of wire wrappers and they also talk about beads alot. One member has some beads she wanted identified. Then another member quoted the information below from a book. Does this sound like an accurate description of Sodalite? Don Norris LearnSilver.com RockWraps.com Sodalite is a major constituent of lapis, and found in all shades of blue. Rarely contains pyrite, but often has white streaks of calcite. Hardness 5 1/2. Lapis is made up of several different minerals, including lazurite, sodalite, hauyne, calcite and pyrite. Composition and color varies, blue, most desirable dark and with pyrite. Pale blue from the USSR and Chile. Dark blue from the USA. Canadian is lighter blue. Pakistan isn't mentioned, but they put out alot. Hardness 5 1/2. Often confused for each other. Dumortierite is hardness 7, so that could be a test. From webmaster at rockhoundstation1.com Fri Nov 11 20:31:52 2005 From: webmaster at rockhoundstation1.com (Sally Taylor) Date: Fri Nov 11 20:31:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] submit post Message-ID: <005901c5e742$01f999c0$abcae304@FREEDOM> My ISP had problems with the server yesterday so I missed an issue. Larry - are you sure your pink/green crystal isn't tourmaline? From the discription you gave and from where you found it I'm thinking that's what it might be. DonH -- I live SW - about 3 miles out of Owyhee county. We have all sorts of findings down here. I did live up in Burke Canyon north of Wallace for a half a year though -- good stuff there, too, but different from where I am now. The area is full of ghost towns and mine sites - really big kitties, and Moose (they love bananas, lol. Oh and Ghosts - lots of ghosts. Had a good time but not somewhere I could support myself. Great stories about the area though. Would love to chat. Hoping to get up there some time but right now I've got hunts piling up with my members and seeings that the weather has gone to ****, it's going to be a while. Would love to get together on a hunt sometime though next summer. Sally Taylor webmaster@rockhoundstation1.com http://www.rockhoundstation1.com Your Global Rockhound Center --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 11 20:39:03 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 11 20:38:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favorite rock. In-Reply-To: <012e01c5e73f$a63208e0$020aa8c0@Don> References: <200511101300414.SM01456@mjce4712fb7466> <00b801c5e669$358dd7d0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <012e01c5e73f$a63208e0$020aa8c0@Don> Message-ID: <437571E7.90609@verizon.net> Donald Norris wrote: > Does this sound like an > accurate description of Sodalite? > > Sodalite is a major constituent of lapis, and found in all shades > of blue. Rarely contains pyrite, but often has white streaks of > calcite. Hardness 5 1/2. > > Lapis is made up of several different minerals, including > lazurite, sodalite, hauyne, calcite and pyrite. Howdy, Well that is a good question. "Sodalite" is both a grop of minerals and also a valid mineral name: http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/silicate/sodalite.htm I have always understood that the rich blue mineral in lapis lazuli is the lazurite. Now, lapis lazuli is a *rock*, with a rock being a mixture of specific mineral species. I would also imagine--just by assumption, not because I have evidence--that some of the blue material in any piece could contain variants of several of the group members. So this isn't wrong; it's just not specific enough. Since lazurite is a sodalite group mineral, it would be better say "Lazurite is a major constituent of lapis lazuli..." And then: " . . . made of several different sodalite-group minerals, including the aforementioned lazurite . . . " Hope this helps. best, Don H From kahako at verizon.net Fri Nov 11 20:46:58 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Nov 11 20:47:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii rock cairns (was Other kinds of rock collecting) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051111181324.03912d48@incoming.verizon.net> At 11:02 AM 11/10/2005, Glenn Wimpee wrote: >Hi Kitty! >Please explain the little stacks of rock all over the islands. >Mahalo! Greetings Glenn and List, It's interesting that a question about the stacks of rocks in Hawaii would come up less than a week after a front-page article appeared in our newspaper. I've made an edited version of it below. If anyone is interested in seeing a photo of one of these illegal stacks that sits on the rim of Halemaumau Crater at Kilauea caldera in Hawaii Volcanoes NP, contact me off-list and I will sent it to you. Aloha, Kitty This is excerpted from and article that appeared in the Hawaii Tribune-Herald (of Hilo) on Nov. 4, 2005. Officials Discourage Building Rock Formations Hawaii Volcanoes National Park officials have begun a public education program to discourage the practice of creating piles of rocks that mar the natural landscape. These pyramid-like rock piles, sometimes numbering in the hundreds, resemble but are different from the traditional ahu -- known as cairns outside of Hawaii -- which guide hikers on backcountry trails or mark land divisions or other significant locations. Ahu are considered cultural artifacts, with some put in place by Native Hawaiians hundreds of years ago. But new rock piles are springing up in a variety of park areas. Some are placed near trails, and can lead to confusion for hikers as to the trail's true path. The rock piles have been appearing for at least a decade but the practice has grown alarmingly the past several years. The park's staff is now having trouble dismantling the piles before the "copy-cat" syndrome encourages more. Park officials are unsure why the piles are being built, although it may be related to cultural practices in Asia or elsewhere in the world. Sometimes visitors pry rocks out of cracked lava formations to build the piles. In other cases, they use rocks launched from vents during explosive eruptions, disturbing the unique geological record. The task is so daunting that the park has begun holding training seminars for staff members, teaching them how to safely handle the often jagged and sometimes staggeringly heavy rocks. Park employees strive to return the rocks to their original location, but that can be extremely difficult and time-consuming. Most of the blame is believed to lie with visitors to the island. Elder Native Hawaiians are distressed by the impact on what they consider a sacred place. The practice also is against federal law, a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a $5,000 fine. The law prohibits "possessing, destroying, injuring, defacing, removing, or disturbing from its natural state all mineral resources" within the park. "Visitors can help protect the park's dynamic landscape by leaving everything -- including the rocks -- in its rightful place," said park Superintendent Cindy Orlando. From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sat Nov 12 05:47:09 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Nov 12 05:47:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Shaped rocks at philadelphia Message-ID: <20051112134709.64284.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Mike: Did you see that exhibit in Philadelphia at the airport? I visited Philadelphia for an EPA REgion III meeting years ago with my ex-boss, and we went to the airport way early to leave, and had the opportunity of looking at a ton of beautiful rocks at out leisure. Could it have been 8 years ago already? I would have guessed 6... Small world, isn't it? My buddy Dan K often brings back rocks for their appearance, I have a Ganesh rock, a fossil covered limestone rock that in the right light and with a little imagination, could be a revised (by age) rendering of the well-known hindu elephant-god deity of good luck. Another fine-art enabled by rocks! Congratulations! JR __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From lindalnew at yahoo.com Sat Nov 12 06:12:15 2005 From: lindalnew at yahoo.com (New Linda) Date: Sat Nov 12 06:12:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Shaped rocks at philadelphia In-Reply-To: <20051112134709.64284.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20051112141215.89830.qmail@web31505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The Noguchi Sculpture museum in Queens, New York, has beautifully sculpted boulders and other art. It is a lovely installation. Linda New --- "J. R. Hodel" wrote: > Hi Mike: > > Did you see that exhibit in Philadelphia at the > airport? I visited Philadelphia for an EPA REgion > III > meeting years ago with my ex-boss, and we went to > the > airport way early to leave, and had the opportunity > of > looking at a ton of beautiful rocks at out leisure. > > Could it have been 8 years ago already? I would > have > guessed 6... > > Small world, isn't it? > > My buddy Dan K often brings back rocks for their > appearance, I have a Ganesh rock, a fossil covered > limestone rock that in the right light and with a > little imagination, could be a revised (by age) > rendering of the well-known hindu elephant-god deity > of good luck. > > Another fine-art enabled by rocks! Congratulations! > > JR > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From johnjold at comcast.net Sat Nov 12 06:49:01 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Sat Nov 12 06:49:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] new fossil Message-ID: <0242d0742568d84a17a2a2bd2ba702a4@comcast.net> This link is to a New York Times article today about a new sea dwelling crocodile with a head like T-Rex. Not large but really strange. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/11/international/americas/11croc.html? 8hpib From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sat Nov 12 07:07:16 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Nov 12 07:07:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alan's yard Message-ID: <20051112150716.36663.qmail@web34606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all: Alan's yard is nearly a natural history display all by itself! The yard rocks are colorful and crystalline, the plants are rare and interesting, and the table/shelf rocks are exotic! My only regret is that when we visited (last month) it was too cool to just sit, drink a beverage, and relax. You had to keep moving to keep warm! Have you made room in the garage for both vehicles yet? Can anyone guess why Alan might have trouble getting a vehicle in his garage? Keep up the good work! JR in WV __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sat Nov 12 11:46:55 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (geenet2@mchsi.com) Date: Sat Nov 12 11:47:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favoriterock. Message-ID: <111220051946.569.437646AF0000ECDA000002392197926761CD9B0A020A0A09@mchsi.com> I can relate to your wife....it took me a long time to let one picture that included me onto my website. Jeanette > I did put sand in the bottom of the case. I have a better picture of my case > but I am having trouble getting rid of the old picture and substituting the > better picture. My wife hates that picture of her and I have been told to > get rid of it and it just keeps coming back. If she find out that I have > plastered it all over the internet I am doomed! (:-( > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeanette Wimpee" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 11:11 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my > favoriterock. > > > > What if you got a shallow tray and filled it with desert sand and gravel, > > then placed the pieces on that with the backdrop. > > Jeanette > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jaybates" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 12:43 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my > > favoriterock. > > > > > > > In my mind they are not mutually exclusive. I only wish I could capture > > > the > > > scenery and add it to the mix. Gnarly wood, petrified or otherwise, > > > captures > > > the weather and sense of place. I have tried to capture some of the > > > scenery > > > in my case displays, not too successfully I might add. > > > > > > http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/case2004.jpg > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Nov 12 12:08:18 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Nov 12 12:05:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favoriterock. References: <111220051946.569.437646AF0000ECDA000002392197926761CD9B0A020A0A09@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <000501c5e7c4$d38bfbe0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Hey I am lookin for a little sympathy here, not confirmation of some irrational female behavior. lol ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my favoriterock. > I can relate to your wife....it took me a long time to let one picture that > included me onto my website. > Jeanette > > > > I did put sand in the bottom of the case. I have a better picture of my case > > but I am having trouble getting rid of the old picture and substituting the > > better picture. My wife hates that picture of her and I have been told to > > get rid of it and it just keeps coming back. If she find out that I have > > plastered it all over the internet I am doomed! (:-( > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeanette Wimpee" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" > > > > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 11:11 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my > > favoriterock. > > > > > > > What if you got a shallow tray and filled it with desert sand and gravel, > > > then placed the pieces on that with the backdrop. > > > Jeanette > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "jaybates" > > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 12:43 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Other kinds of rock collecting -and my > > > favoriterock. > > > > > > > > > > In my mind they are not mutually exclusive. I only wish I could capture > > > > the > > > > scenery and add it to the mix. Gnarly wood, petrified or otherwise, > > > > captures > > > > the weather and sense of place. I have tried to capture some of the > > > > scenery > > > > in my case displays, not too successfully I might add. > > > > > > > > http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/case2004.jpg > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rocks4u at prodigy.net Sat Nov 12 12:21:36 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Sat Nov 12 12:33:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice Message-ID: <43764ED0.000011.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for assistance but this one has me stumped. Here's my story: I recently purchased a 24" lapidary saw from a fellow rockhound. I noticed the motor was missing (it burned out) and it looked pretty dirty but I said No problem!" I got it home and started to clean it up and found the job almost impossible. High pressure cleaning didn't seem to work well at all even with hot soapy water. I asked the previous owner what he had been using for cutting oil and he said "Food Grade Soy Oil". This stuff has turned to a mylar-like coating over the entire working surface of the saw. I'm having some success using a product called "Oil Eater" from Costco but it still takes a tremendous amount of wire brushing and scrapping to get this stuff off. The really bad part is if I don't dispose of the scrapings immediately they re-stick to the metal parts. It's like a soft pliant glue that doesn't harden but sticks to everything. It comes off in strips when scraped but I can't get it out of the cracks and crevices. Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might come to that. Thanks for any ideas! Wes Lingerfelt --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Nov 12 12:43:04 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Nov 12 12:40:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice References: <43764ED0.000011.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> Message-ID: <000701c5e7c9$ae73e200$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I used some vegetable oil in my saw once. I got it for cheap in a sale. Naturally it gummed up. I had some success getting it off using concentrated "Simple Green" You also might try an oven cleaner or an engine cleaner and a heat lamp. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; "LA Rocks" Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 12:21 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for assistance but this one has me stumped. Here's my story: I recently purchased a 24" lapidary saw from a fellow rockhound. I noticed the motor was missing (it burned out) and it looked pretty dirty but I said No problem!" I got it home and started to clean it up and found the job almost impossible. High pressure cleaning didn't seem to work well at all even with hot soapy water. I asked the previous owner what he had been using for cutting oil and he said "Food Grade Soy Oil". This stuff has turned to a mylar-like coating over the entire working surface of the saw. I'm having some success using a product called "Oil Eater" from Costco but it still takes a tremendous amount of wire brushing and scrapping to get this stuff off. The really bad part is if I don't dispose of the scrapings immediately they re-stick to the metal parts. It's like a soft pliant glue that doesn't harden but sticks to everything. It comes off in strips when scraped but I can't get it out of the cracks and crevices. Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might come to that. Thanks for any ideas! Wes Lingerfelt --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Sat Nov 12 12:40:35 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Nov 12 12:40:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice In-Reply-To: <43764ED0.000011.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> References: <43764ED0.000011.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> Message-ID: Just a wild guess, how about oven cleaner? The spray on stuff you can get at the supermarket. Wear gloves when using it. BK On 11/12/05, rocks4u@prodigy.net wrote: > > It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for assistance > but > this one has me stumped. Here's my story: > I recently purchased a 24" lapidary saw from a fellow rockhound. I noticed > the motor was missing (it burned out) and it looked pretty dirty but I > said > No problem!" I got it home and started to clean it up and found the job > almost impossible. High pressure cleaning didn't seem to work well at all > even with hot soapy water. I asked the previous owner what he had been > using > for cutting oil and he said "Food Grade Soy Oil". This stuff has turned to > a > mylar-like coating over the entire working surface of the saw. I'm having > some success using a product called "Oil Eater" from Costco but it still > takes a tremendous amount of wire brushing and scrapping to get this stuff > off. The really bad part is if I don't dispose of the scrapings > immediately > they re-stick to the metal parts. It's like a soft pliant glue that > doesn't > harden but sticks to everything. It comes off in strips when scraped but I > can't get it out of the cracks and crevices. > Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium > carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might come > to that. Thanks for any ideas! > Wes Lingerfelt > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/related > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/jpeg > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Sat Nov 12 13:08:51 2005 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Sat Nov 12 13:08:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice In-Reply-To: <43764ED0.000011.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> Message-ID: <200511122108.jACL8lg9021626@cti06.citenet.net> I'm not an expert in cleaning rock saws but polymerized soy oil OY !! This is fair warning if you use what I suggest you will need to work outside and or have a proper filter mask (and I don't mean those cheap paper ones either), face shield and alkali proof gloves. Get commercial grade oven and deep fryer cleaner. In addition you will want a couple of quarts of vinegar and you want to have some lacquer thinner and a good quality paint primer has the oven cleaner if it is the real thing will take the paint off too. First remove the mechanical parts and put aside for cleaning later. Scrape off as much as you can off the goo. Apply the oven cleaner liberally with a brush and let it soak and work. While it works on the tank do the same for the table, tracks etc. Rinse and repeat until it's clean Take some vinegar in a spray bottle and spray everywhere to neutralize the alkali Rinse well Rinse well again Dry it off Wipe the metal with Lacquer cleaner and prime the metal. For a primer I would suggest a marine grade epoxy primer, ditto for the finish This should all be done the same day as the metal will rust extremely quickly. If you have to leave the metal bare after the cleaning is complete spray it with oil to prevent corrosion. It's less work to remove the oil before painting then it is to remove rust. Same for the mechanical parts. Hope this helps. Kay P.S. If you are near a large city with a place that rebuilds Vehicle motors, give them a call. If they have a large enough boil out tank (it's a tank full of boiling lye (sodium hydroxide) or okite ( the same stuff but with stabilizers and antirust agents) that they lower a dissembled car or truck motor into to clean it. For a nominal fee they may be willing to do it. PPS read about Marvin's monster, mind you he had an easier job than you.... http://www.lapidaryjournal.com/feature/slabsaw.cfm -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of rocks4u@prodigy.net Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 3:22 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com; LA Rocks Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for assistance but this one has me stumped. Here's my story: I recently purchased a 24" lapidary saw from a fellow rockhound. I noticed the motor was missing (it burned out) and it looked pretty dirty but I said No problem!" I got it home and started to clean it up and found the job almost impossible. High pressure cleaning didn't seem to work well at all even with hot soapy water. I asked the previous owner what he had been using for cutting oil and he said "Food Grade Soy Oil". This stuff has turned to a mylar-like coating over the entire working surface of the saw. I'm having some success using a product called "Oil Eater" from Costco but it still takes a tremendous amount of wire brushing and scrapping to get this stuff off. The really bad part is if I don't dispose of the scrapings immediately they re-stick to the metal parts. It's like a soft pliant glue that doesn't harden but sticks to everything. It comes off in strips when scraped but I can't get it out of the cracks and crevices. Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might come to that. Thanks for any ideas! Wes Lingerfelt --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhound at btinternet.com Sat Nov 12 13:40:37 2005 From: rockhound at btinternet.com (Neil A) Date: Sat Nov 12 13:40:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice In-Reply-To: <000701c5e7c9$ae73e200$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: Stick it all in a sealed plastic bag with household ammonia for 24 hours, then wash in detergent. Works well for oven bits that have 3 year old baked on oils and fats . -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of jaybates Sent: 12 November 2005 20:43 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Request for advice I used some vegetable oil in my saw once. I got it for cheap in a sale. Naturally it gummed up. I had some success getting it off using concentrated "Simple Green" You also might try an oven cleaner or an engine cleaner and a heat lamp. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; "LA Rocks" Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 12:21 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for assistance but this one has me stumped. Here's my story: I recently purchased a 24" lapidary saw from a fellow rockhound. I noticed the motor was missing (it burned out) and it looked pretty dirty but I said No problem!" I got it home and started to clean it up and found the job almost impossible. High pressure cleaning didn't seem to work well at all even with hot soapy water. I asked the previous owner what he had been using for cutting oil and he said "Food Grade Soy Oil". This stuff has turned to a mylar-like coating over the entire working surface of the saw. I'm having some success using a product called "Oil Eater" from Costco but it still takes a tremendous amount of wire brushing and scrapping to get this stuff off. The really bad part is if I don't dispose of the scrapings immediately they re-stick to the metal parts. It's like a soft pliant glue that doesn't harden but sticks to everything. It comes off in strips when scraped but I can't get it out of the cracks and crevices. Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might come to that. Thanks for any ideas! Wes Lingerfelt --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From albalmer at att.net Sat Nov 12 13:48:14 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sat Nov 12 13:48:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice In-Reply-To: <43764ED0.000011.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> References: <43764ED0.000011.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> Message-ID: <4376631E.2070500@att.net> rocks4u@prodigy.net wrote: > > Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium > carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might come > to that. Thanks for any ideas! > > Wes Lingerfelt > I doubt that an acid will touch the oil, but of course it will eat the calcium carbonate, if the oil doesn't encapsulate it. I'd probably try oven cleaner. You can use the strips you've already peeled off to test various cleaners. From rocks4u at prodigy.net Sat Nov 12 14:50:02 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Sat Nov 12 15:01:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Request for Ideas Message-ID: <4376719A.000016.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> rocks4u@prodigy.net wrote: > > Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium > carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might come > to that. Thanks for any ideas! > > Wes Lingerfelt Wow! Thanks Guys and Gals! A lot of good ideas and so quick too! I'll try the oven cleaner idea first and then on to the others if needed. Such great people on great lists! Thanks so much! Wes --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Nov 12 15:28:31 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Nov 12 15:28:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Alan's yard References: <20051112150716.36663.qmail@web34606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009e01c5e7e0$cb6aecc0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I don't host a lot of folks. Anyone passing through Louisville is welcome to drop me a note and if our schedule's mesh, is welcome to visit. Progress is being made towards getting the garage vehicle-ready. I've got a 6' folding table still to be removed. Presently I am getting the basement cleaned up. That is where I store my mineral collection. I collected some more Devonian fossils today. But that is a story for later, along with the trip to the fluorspar district. Nate -- you are welcome to contribute on that one! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" To: Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 10:07 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Alan's yard > Hi all: > > Alan's yard is nearly a natural history display all by > itself! The yard rocks are colorful and crystalline, > the plants are rare and interesting, and the > table/shelf rocks are exotic! > > My only regret is that when we visited (last month) it > was too cool to just sit, drink a beverage, and relax. > You had to keep moving to keep warm! > > Have you made room in the garage for both vehicles > yet? Can anyone guess why Alan might have trouble > getting a vehicle in his garage? > > Keep up the good work! > > JR in WV > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tangojuli at yahoo.com Sat Nov 12 15:37:13 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Sat Nov 12 15:37:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Colella's sculpture art In-Reply-To: <200511120204.jAC244vZ007254@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20051112233713.33380.qmail@web60820.mail.yahoo.com> In response to Mike Colella's post about the sculptural rocks-- I loved your website! Thanks for sharing that. I was so inspired that I'm thinking about displaying my secret hoard of similar geo-facts. I have a couple boxes of similar rocks etc such as ventifacts, rhyolite flowstone, breccias with crystal vugs, and other large peices that didn't seem to fit in my more formal mineral displays. I have never seen anyone create "art" out of special rocks like that and your website design lends itself well to displaying your photography. thanks for the inspiration! tina --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 12 15:59:20 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 12 15:59:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice References: <43764ED0.000011.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> Message-ID: <437681C7.4A76@Tomaszewski.net> Have you tried lye drain cleaner? rocks4u@prodigy.net wrote: > > It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for assistance but > this one has me stumped. Here's my story: > > I recently purchased a 24" lapidary saw from a fellow rockhound. I noticed > the motor was missing (it burned out) and it looked pretty dirty but I said > No problem!" I got it home and started to clean it up and found the job > almost impossible. High pressure cleaning didn't seem to work well at all > even with hot soapy water. I asked the previous owner what he had been using > for cutting oil and he said "Food Grade Soy Oil". This stuff has turned to a > mylar-like coating over the entire working surface of the saw. I'm having > some success using a product called "Oil Eater" from Costco but it still > takes a tremendous amount of wire brushing and scrapping to get this stuff > off. The really bad part is if I don't dispose of the scrapings immediately > they re-stick to the metal parts. It's like a soft pliant glue that doesn't > harden but sticks to everything. It comes off in strips when scraped but I > can't get it out of the cracks and crevices. > > Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium > carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might come > to that. Thanks for any ideas! > > Wes Lingerfelt From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Sat Nov 12 16:38:33 2005 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Sat Nov 12 16:39:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice In-Reply-To: <437681C7.4A76@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <200511130038.jAD0cZg9025640@cti06.citenet.net> As a General point lye is Sodium Hydroxide as are most oven cleaners as well as most Alkali based drain cleaners. The only difference is the concentration. Personal protection is a must if using anything more concentrated than oven cleaner and even then ..... Kay -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 6:59 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Request for advice Have you tried lye drain cleaner? rocks4u@prodigy.net wrote: > > It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for > assistance but this one has me stumped. Here's my story: > From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sat Nov 12 18:18:10 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sat Nov 12 18:18:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice Message-ID: <19d.41146a6c.30a7fc62@aol.com> Wes: That is no small order. The Soy oil needs an organic solvent or alkali, while the limestone needs an acid. I think the Polymerized Soy Oil is acting as the binder to hold this mess together, so let's start with the solvents and alkalis. In any event you can test the effectiveness at softening this mess using the stuff you have already stripped off. First off, the soy oil was an unsaturated oil which leaves it prone to oxidation or polymerization. Try a few solvents. It is tough to predict, but the best test is to test the scrapings in a test tube. That way you don't have to do a full scale test. I'd try the following: 1) Acetone- Watch out it is flammable and it will take off any paint 2) Naptha - This should represent the various "simple" hydrocarbons. If Naptha does not work, I doubt kerosene or toluene will either ... though sometimes toluene works when naptha does not. 3) Paint remover - This is a polymer like the resin in paint (though it is a different resin). Paint remover typically contains some chlorinated hydrocarbons which can be pretty aggressive on big organic molecules. 4) Heavy duty oven cleaner. this may require heat. This is a strong alkali so use gloves. Vinegar can neutralize spills. 5) Have you tried a heat gun to soften the stuff so you can scrape most of it off? You'll probably strip the paint off too so you'll need to repaint it. Best of luck Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 11/12/2005 6:59:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium > carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might come > to that. Thanks for any ideas! > > Wes Lingerfelt _______________________________________________ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocks4u at prodigy.net Sat Nov 12 19:29:05 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Sat Nov 12 19:40:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice References: <19d.41146a6c.30a7fc62@aol.com> Message-ID: <4376B301.000001.02800@WES-MEDION-1918> Thanks, Gene for your comprehensive answer... It's what I was looking for. I ve begun today (after some input was received) to test oven cleaner. I'll have to go to the store and get something a little better than what my wife had in the cabinet. The product she had takes 2 hours to work and is pretty mild (Non-fuming type). However, it does seem to loosen the stuff up pretty well after a period of soaking. The Oil Eater product I tried first did take the paint off but not consistently. I suspect the polymer like coating is just adhered to the paint so it comes off with it. I'm working outdoors in the sun so I'm getting a little heat from that. This is the most gross stuff I've ever ran into. I use Diala-AX by Shell for my cutting oil and I've found out some time ago that cutting Picasso Marble does the same thing. I never did get all of it out of my 36" saw to this day after several Oil changes over the last year. I tried Diesel fluid, WD-40 and Kerosene on it and it just barely got it soft enough to scrap off. It actually glued my saw carriage to the rails. I haven't tried Acetone yet. That would be next. Lots of good ideas to try....I'm in your debt! Thanks, Wes -------Original Message------- From: FOSSILNUT@aol.com Date: 11/12/05 18:19:16 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Request for advice Wes: That is no small order. The Soy oil needs an organic solvent or alkali, while the limestone needs an acid. I think the Polymerized Soy Oil is acting as the binder to hold this mess together, so let's start with the solvents and alkalis. In any event you can test the effectiveness at softening this mess using the stuff you have already stripped off. First off, the soy oil was an unsaturated oil which leaves it prone to oxidation or polymerization. Try a few solvents. It is tough to predict, but the best test is to test the scrapings in a test tube. That way you don't have to do a full scale test. I'd try the following: 1) Acetone- Watch out it is flammable and it will take off any paint 2) Naptha - This should represent the various "simple" hydrocarbons. If Naptha does not work, I doubt kerosene or toluene will either ... though sometimes toluene works when naptha does not. 3) Paint remover - This is a polymer like the resin in paint (though it is a different resin). Paint remover typically contains some chlorinated hydrocarbons which can be pretty aggressive on big organic molecules. 4) Heavy duty oven cleaner. this may require heat. This is a strong alkali so use gloves. Vinegar can neutralize spills. 5) Have you tried a heat gun to soften the stuff so you can scrape most of it off? You'll probably strip the paint off too so you'll need to repaint it. Best of luck Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 11/12/2005 6:59:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium > carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might come > to that. Thanks for any ideas! > > Wes Lingerfelt _______________________________________________ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From bg at his.com Sun Nov 13 06:07:56 2005 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Sun Nov 13 06:17:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] the mineralogist 1957 In-Reply-To: <20051112134709.64284.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051112134709.64284.qmail@web34610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <300a12235d106380e49c46cc54ecb9bf@his.com> does anyone have a copy of this issue who could provide me with a copy? Antiquity of opal. The Mineralogist, v. 25, no. 5, p. 237. L.B. Leakey, opal used by 4,000 BCE. Anonymous, 1957 thanks, cathy --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From jpjunk at mc.net Sun Nov 13 08:28:58 2005 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Sun Nov 13 08:33:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice In-Reply-To: <43764ED0.000011.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> References: <43764ED0.000011.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> Message-ID: This may sound goofy, but I had a similar problem and had success with "PAM" spray-on cooking oil spray. Spray on (heating parts helps), let sit, scrape off, repeat, wipe. Non-toxic (edible!), not harmful to you,machine parts, kids or pets, readily available, cheap. John On Nov 12, 2005, at 2:21 PM, rocks4u@prodigy.net wrote: > It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for > assistance but > this one has me stumped. Here's my story: > I recently purchased a 24" lapidary saw from a fellow rockhound. I > noticed > the motor was missing (it burned out) and it looked pretty dirty > but I said > No problem!" I got it home and started to clean it up and found the > job > almost impossible. High pressure cleaning didn't seem to work well > at all > even with hot soapy water. I asked the previous owner what he had > been using > for cutting oil and he said "Food Grade Soy Oil". This stuff has > turned to a > mylar-like coating over the entire working surface of the saw. I'm > having > some success using a product called "Oil Eater" from Costco but it > still > takes a tremendous amount of wire brushing and scrapping to get > this stuff > off. The really bad part is if I don't dispose of the scrapings > immediately > they re-stick to the metal parts. It's like a soft pliant glue that > doesn't > harden but sticks to everything. It comes off in strips when > scraped but I > can't get it out of the cracks and crevices. > Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium > carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it > might come > to that. Thanks for any ideas! > Wes Lingerfelt > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/related > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/jpeg > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Nov 13 08:40:54 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Nov 13 08:40:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice References: <43764ED0.000011.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> Message-ID: <10fa01c5e871$0410b740$6402a8c0@remains> what about an industrial degreaser? Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Junkroski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Request for advice > This may sound goofy, but I had a similar problem and had > success with "PAM" spray-on cooking oil spray. > > Spray on (heating parts helps), let sit, scrape off, repeat, wipe. > > Non-toxic (edible!), not harmful to you,machine parts, kids or pets, > readily available, cheap. > > John > > > On Nov 12, 2005, at 2:21 PM, rocks4u@prodigy.net wrote: > >> It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for assistance >> but >> this one has me stumped. Here's my story: >> I recently purchased a 24" lapidary saw from a fellow rockhound. I >> noticed >> the motor was missing (it burned out) and it looked pretty dirty but I >> said >> No problem!" I got it home and started to clean it up and found the job >> almost impossible. High pressure cleaning didn't seem to work well at >> all >> even with hot soapy water. I asked the previous owner what he had been >> using >> for cutting oil and he said "Food Grade Soy Oil". This stuff has turned >> to a >> mylar-like coating over the entire working surface of the saw. I'm >> having >> some success using a product called "Oil Eater" from Costco but it still >> takes a tremendous amount of wire brushing and scrapping to get this >> stuff >> off. The really bad part is if I don't dispose of the scrapings >> immediately >> they re-stick to the metal parts. It's like a soft pliant glue that >> doesn't >> harden but sticks to everything. It comes off in strips when scraped but >> I >> can't get it out of the cracks and crevices. >> Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium >> carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might >> come >> to that. Thanks for any ideas! >> Wes Lingerfelt >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/related >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> image/jpeg >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Ted at crystalgems.com Sun Nov 13 09:02:30 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Sun Nov 13 09:02:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice In-Reply-To: <43764ED0.000011.03856@WES-MEDION-1918> Message-ID: <002501c5e873$da832cc0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Wes: I agree with Michael's suggestion. Use a commercial cleaner/degreaser. My thoughts are the cleaners you find at the auto parts store. In addition to the engine cleaners they have cleaners that are used to clean concrete floors after years of oil and other fluid impregnations. Cars use a range of fluids so the cleaners are developed to handle a range of oils and varnishes plus they have the advantage of using water for cleanup. Ted -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of rocks4u@prodigy.net Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 3:22 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com; LA Rocks Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for assistance but this one has me stumped. Here's my story: I recently purchased a 24" lapidary saw from a fellow rockhound. I noticed the motor was missing (it burned out) and it looked pretty dirty but I said No problem!" I got it home and started to clean it up and found the job almost impossible. High pressure cleaning didn't seem to work well at all even with hot soapy water. I asked the previous owner what he had been using for cutting oil and he said "Food Grade Soy Oil". This stuff has turned to a mylar-like coating over the entire working surface of the saw. I'm having some success using a product called "Oil Eater" from Costco but it still takes a tremendous amount of wire brushing and scrapping to get this stuff off. The really bad part is if I don't dispose of the scrapings immediately they re-stick to the metal parts. It's like a soft pliant glue that doesn't harden but sticks to everything. It comes off in strips when scraped but I can't get it out of the cracks and crevices. Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might come to that. Thanks for any ideas! Wes Lingerfelt --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rocks4u at prodigy.net Sun Nov 13 10:18:50 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Sun Nov 13 10:30:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice References: <002501c5e873$da832cc0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <4377838A.000004.03392@WES-MEDION-1918> Thanks, Ted! I sprayed some Oven cleaner on the parts & carriage last night and left it to soak overnight. Got up this morning and sprayed it with water and the stuff just melted away. Good show, folks! I was surprised at the amount of support from the group as well as the speed the stuff came off after spraying with Oven Cleaner. It is saving me a lot of man-hours. Thanks ever so much! Wes -------Original Message------- From: Ted Kowalski Date: 11/13/05 09:02:47 To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Request for advice Wes: I agree with Michael's suggestion. Use a commercial cleaner/degreaser. My thoughts are the cleaners you find at the auto parts store. In addition to the engine cleaners they have cleaners that are used to clean concrete floors after years of oil and other fluid impregnations. Cars use a range of fluids so the cleaners are developed to handle a range of oils and varnishes plus they have the advantage of using water for cleanup. Ted -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of rocks4u@prodigy.net Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 3:22 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com; LA Rocks Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for assistance but this one has me stumped. Here's my story: I recently purchased a 24" lapidary saw from a fellow rockhound. I noticed the motor was missing (it burned out) and it looked pretty dirty but I said No problem!" I got it home and started to clean it up and found the job almost impossible. High pressure cleaning didn't seem to work well at all even with hot soapy water. I asked the previous owner what he had been using for cutting oil and he said "Food Grade Soy Oil". This stuff has turned to a mylar-like coating over the entire working surface of the saw. I'm having some success using a product called "Oil Eater" from Costco but it still takes a tremendous amount of wire brushing and scrapping to get this stuff off. The really bad part is if I don't dispose of the scrapings immediately they re-stick to the metal parts. It's like a soft pliant glue that doesn't harden but sticks to everything. It comes off in strips when scraped but I can't get it out of the cracks and crevices. Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might come to that. Thanks for any ideas! Wes Lingerfelt --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From rocks4u at prodigy.net Sun Nov 13 10:22:57 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Sun Nov 13 10:34:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice References: <10fa01c5e871$0410b740$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <43778481.000007.03392@WES-MEDION-1918> Michael, I've tried a product from Costco called "Oil Eater" which is an industrial strength cleaner intended for Petroleum based applications. It had a very minimal effect and required a lot of brushing and scrubbing. It appears Oven Cleaner is 10 times faster and easier. It appears to breakdown the stuff to allow water to wash it away. Thanks again! Wes -------Original Message------- From: Michael Schmidt Date: 11/13/05 08:40:49 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Request for advice what about an industrial degreaser? Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Junkroski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Request for advice > This may sound goofy, but I had a similar problem and had > success with "PAM" spray-on cooking oil spray. > > Spray on (heating parts helps), let sit, scrape off, repeat, wipe. > > Non-toxic (edible!), not harmful to you,machine parts, kids or pets, > readily available, cheap. > > John > > > On Nov 12, 2005, at 2:21 PM, rocks4u@prodigy.net wrote: > >> It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for assistance >> but >> this one has me stumped. Here's my story: >> I recently purchased a 24" lapidary saw from a fellow rockhound. I >> noticed >> the motor was missing (it burned out) and it looked pretty dirty but I >> said >> No problem!" I got it home and started to clean it up and found the job >> almost impossible. High pressure cleaning didn't seem to work well at >> all >> even with hot soapy water. I asked the previous owner what he had been >> using >> for cutting oil and he said "Food Grade Soy Oil". This stuff has turned >> to a >> mylar-like coating over the entire working surface of the saw. I'm >> having >> some success using a product called "Oil Eater" from Costco but it still >> takes a tremendous amount of wire brushing and scrapping to get this >> stuff >> off. The really bad part is if I don't dispose of the scrapings >> immediately >> they re-stick to the metal parts. It's like a soft pliant glue that >> doesn't >> harden but sticks to everything. It comes off in strips when scraped but >> I >> can't get it out of the cracks and crevices. >> Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium >> carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might >> come >> to that. Thanks for any ideas! >> Wes Lingerfelt >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/related >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> image/jpeg >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Nov 13 10:42:15 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Nov 13 10:41:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice References: <10fa01c5e871$0410b740$6402a8c0@remains> <43778481.000007.03392@WES-MEDION-1918> Message-ID: <112c01c5e881$f7f98fc0$6402a8c0@remains> no problem. i can't remember the name of it, but the industrial degreaser we used was used for fossil prep. we were prepping placenticeras ammonites, and after they had been acid treated, we would apply a small amount of the degreaser prior to laquering it. obviously, the degreaser was essentially to remove very small amounts of oils and trace chemicals so the laquer wouldn't have a problem setting up.....a lot different than the crap you had to dissolve. Nasty stuff, but it probably would have worked as well as the oven cleaner...but for a lot more money Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Request for advice Michael, I've tried a product from Costco called "Oil Eater" which is an industrial strength cleaner intended for Petroleum based applications. It had a very minimal effect and required a lot of brushing and scrubbing. It appears Oven Cleaner is 10 times faster and easier. It appears to breakdown the stuff to allow water to wash it away. Thanks again! Wes -------Original Message------- From: Michael Schmidt Date: 11/13/05 08:40:49 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Request for advice what about an industrial degreaser? Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Junkroski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Request for advice > This may sound goofy, but I had a similar problem and had > success with "PAM" spray-on cooking oil spray. > > Spray on (heating parts helps), let sit, scrape off, repeat, wipe. > > Non-toxic (edible!), not harmful to you,machine parts, kids or pets, > readily available, cheap. > > John > > > On Nov 12, 2005, at 2:21 PM, rocks4u@prodigy.net wrote: > >> It's not often that I need to turn to the folks out there for assistance >> but >> this one has me stumped. Here's my story: >> I recently purchased a 24" lapidary saw from a fellow rockhound. I >> noticed >> the motor was missing (it burned out) and it looked pretty dirty but I >> said >> No problem!" I got it home and started to clean it up and found the job >> almost impossible. High pressure cleaning didn't seem to work well at >> all >> even with hot soapy water. I asked the previous owner what he had been >> using >> for cutting oil and he said "Food Grade Soy Oil". This stuff has turned >> to a >> mylar-like coating over the entire working surface of the saw. I'm >> having >> some success using a product called "Oil Eater" from Costco but it still >> takes a tremendous amount of wire brushing and scrapping to get this >> stuff >> off. The really bad part is if I don't dispose of the scrapings >> immediately >> they re-stick to the metal parts. It's like a soft pliant glue that >> doesn't >> harden but sticks to everything. It comes off in strips when scraped but >> I >> can't get it out of the cracks and crevices. >> Does anyone have any ideas how to dissolve the combination of Calcium >> carbonate and Soy oil? I'm a little hesitant to use acid but it might >> come >> to that. Thanks for any ideas! >> Wes Lingerfelt >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/related >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> image/jpeg >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From MCGINNISG at aol.com Sun Nov 13 11:30:49 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 13 11:30:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice Message-ID: <23f.1283c54.30a8ee69@aol.com> Before you result to acid, dynamite or something worst, Try a commercial calcium remover like CLR or the gel stuff. Scuff up the area the best you can with a wire brush or a Dremel tool bit, etc to let it solution in. Soak the calcium repeatedly using a paint brush dipped in solution. Finally and above all, neutralize everything before any painting, greasing, oiling or use. Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Sun Nov 13 17:26:13 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Sun Nov 13 17:22:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digging, collecting or visiting - New York to NB Canada In-Reply-To: <43753F62.9C4@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Hi All, On Tuesday Nov. 22nd I'm planning to leave NB Canada to take a delivery of sculptural alabaster to New York City. Itinerary looks like this: Tuesday 22nd: I-95 through Maine & New Hampshire to Boston Wednesday 23rd: I-95 Boston to New York City Thursday 24th & Friday 25th: Leave New York heading North on I-87 to near Pittsfield MA, then East on I-90 to Springfield MA, then North on I-91 to St. Johnsbury VT, thence into Oxford County Maine where I know who to go visit. Given the incentive, the Thursday and Friday itinerary could expand to take up Saturday and Sunday also. I have someone I'd like to visit in Oxford County Maine, but what about the stretch of road before that, North through New York State, Massachusetts, & Vermont? Any recommendations as to places along that route where it might be worthwhile to go digging or collecting or neat mineral/gem shops or mineral/gem people to look up? PS - This would be really short scheduling but if there's a gem&mineral club along the way that is holding its meeting on one of the abovementioned days and might be interested in having me give a slide presentation (on Idar-Oberstein, on labradorite digging in Labrador, on collecting on the Bay of Fundy - and other topics) please email me off list. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Nov 13 18:21:55 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sun Nov 13 18:21:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rust in a highland park 14" Message-ID: <001601c5e8c2$2f0540a0$f91571ce@marilyn> Howdy I have been bringing a 14" back from the dead. I have finally gotten it all apart so I have broken the rust bonds on most of the parts I want to turn the two rails over as the tops are pitted and I think if I can turn them (not easy in this condition) I will to make the feed smother. the feed screw is miraculously in pretty good shape. I had to resort to taking it to a machine shop to break some of the rusted solid parts. The brushed the feed screw so it is good I wanted them to run it through a die but they didn't. I now have the lid and the tank ready to remove the rust and the old paint from the inside and outside. Should I have it sand blasted? or is there something that will take most of the rust off the inside of the tank? I can probably strip the outside and repaint but the inside is terrible. So if sand blasting is best to remove the rust Ill have them remove the paint too. When this goes back together I awnt it to be done for a long time. Any other suggestions while the carriage is out? Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Nov 13 18:28:47 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 13 18:28:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice Message-ID: <9f.6c3c859b.30a9505f@aol.com> No doubt you are soponifying the partly polymerized oils and breaking them down with the oven cleaner. When you are done, if some of the carbonate still remains you can try an acidic product like CLR. Gene Hartstein In a message dated 11/13/2005 1:42:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca writes: Michael, I've tried a product from Costco called "Oil Eater" which is an industrial strength cleaner intended for Petroleum based applications. It had a very minimal effect and required a lot of brushing and scrubbing. It appears Oven Cleaner is 10 times faster and easier. It appears to breakdown the stuff to allow water to wash it away. Thanks again! Wes --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Sun Nov 13 18:33:56 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Nov 13 18:33:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rust in a highland park 14" In-Reply-To: <001601c5e8c2$2f0540a0$f91571ce@marilyn> References: <001601c5e8c2$2f0540a0$f91571ce@marilyn> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051113182902.0287b550@orerockon.com> I have done this numerous times with a steel wire brush attachment for a drill. It gets virtually all of the rust off; then I use petroleum jelly to stabilize the metal before priming it with rusty metal primer. FWIW if they did that to the feed screw it would be a smaller diameter than it was originally since the former surface of the screw was converted to rust. This would mess with the vise clamp and your vise would slip. Sometimes the only solution is a new part. At 06:21 PM 11/13/2005, you wrote: >Howdy I have been bringing a 14" back from the dead. I have >finally gotten it all apart so I have broken the rust bonds on most >of the parts I want to turn the two rails over as the tops are >pitted and I think if I can turn them (not easy in this condition) >I will to make the feed smother. the feed screw is miraculously in >pretty good shape. I had to resort to taking it to a machine shop to >break some of the rusted solid parts. The brushed the feed screw so >it is good I wanted them to run it through a die but they didn't. I >now have the lid and the tank ready to remove the rust and the old >paint from the inside and outside. Should I have it sand >blasted? or is there something that will take most of the rust off >the inside of the tank? I can probably strip the outside and >repaint but the inside is terrible. So if sand blasting is best to >remove the rust Ill have them remove the paint too. When this goes >back together I awnt it to be done for a long time. Any other >suggestions while the carriage is out? Steve Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Nov 13 19:34:19 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 13 19:30:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rust in a highland park 14" References: <001601c5e8c2$2f0540a0$f91571ce@marilyn> Message-ID: <437804E8.7AB7@Tomaszewski.net> Steve, Before you sandblast you might want to try the old standby of Naval Jelly on the rust. Its not the nicest stuff to use (believe the cautions on the label), but it is generally effective. Your local hardware store should be able to provide you with a small quantity to test with. Kreigh Steve & Marilyn wrote: > > Howdy I have been bringing a 14" back from the dead. I have finally gotten it all apart so I have broken the rust bonds on most of the parts I want to turn the two rails over as the tops are pitted and I think if I can turn them (not easy in this condition) I will to make the feed smother. the feed screw is miraculously in pretty good shape. I had to resort to taking it to a machine shop to break some of the rusted solid parts. The brushed the feed screw so it is good I wanted them to run it through a die but they didn't. I now have the lid and the tank ready to remove the rust and the old paint from the inside and outside. Should I have it sand blasted? or is there something that will take most of the rust off the inside of the tank? I can probably strip the outside and repaint but the inside is terrible. So if sand blasting is best to remove the rust Ill have them remove the paint too. When this goes back together I awnt it to be done for a long time. Any other suggestions while the carriage is out? Steve > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From davisj at earthlink.net Sun Nov 13 21:58:44 2005 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Sun Nov 13 21:58:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rust in a highland park 14" In-Reply-To: <001601c5e8c2$2f0540a0$f91571ce@marilyn> Message-ID: I would not recommend sand blasting as you run the risk of making the "skin" pretty thin if not even ending up with leaks, depending upon how badly pitted the case is.. Sand blasting is pretty harsh. Some other type of blasting (plastic media) might be ok. I am sure the chemical experts will make some suggestions about rust removal using non physical means. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Nov 14 06:31:18 2005 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Nov 14 06:31:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digging, collecting or visiting - New York to NB Canada References: Message-ID: <001a01c5e928$13fda200$058b4c0c@LarryRush> Hans: The Herkimer diamond mines are west of Pittsfield, Ma, in NY just off of the NY thruway. The closest one is in St. Johnsville, about an hours drive from Pittsfield. Others are further west in Middleville, about an hour and a half drive. Also, there used to be a rock shop in Albany, just west of Pittsfield, but I don't know if it is still there. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 8:26 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Digging, collecting or visiting - New York to NB Canada > > Hi All, > > On Tuesday Nov. 22nd I'm planning to leave NB Canada to take a delivery of > sculptural alabaster to New York City. Itinerary looks like this: > > Tuesday 22nd: I-95 through Maine & New Hampshire to Boston > > Wednesday 23rd: I-95 Boston to New York City > > Thursday 24th & Friday 25th: Leave New York heading North on I-87 to near > Pittsfield MA, then East on I-90 to Springfield MA, then North on I-91 to > St. Johnsbury VT, thence into Oxford County Maine where I know who to go > visit. > > Given the incentive, the Thursday and Friday itinerary could expand to > take up Saturday and Sunday also. I have someone I'd like to visit in > Oxford County Maine, but what about the stretch of road before that, North > through New York State, Massachusetts, & Vermont? Any recommendations as > to places along that route where it might be worthwhile to go digging or > collecting or neat mineral/gem shops or mineral/gem people to look up? > > PS - This would be really short scheduling but if there's a gem&mineral > club along the way that is holding its meeting on one of the > abovementioned days > and might be interested in having me give a slide presentation (on > Idar-Oberstein, on labradorite digging in Labrador, on collecting on the > Bay of Fundy - and other topics) please email me off list. > > Cheers, > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Mon Nov 14 13:51:07 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Mon Nov 14 13:47:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all. I have been warned by friends that I should not expect easy traffic anywhere in heavily populated areas on the day before American Thanksgiving. Hence I'll be delivering alabaster in New York not Wednesday but Tuesday and will try to head some way North out of NYC on Tuesday also. It looks like the recreational part of the trip will likely be Herkimer digging. (Thanks Larry for that suggestion). In that respect, would anyone care make some specific recommendations as to places (fee digs I would imagine?) to go digging? Any real good ones? Also, I'm told the mother rock that holds the "diamond" pockets is miserably hard to work. That being so, what tools should I bring? And since time is short, is there a place where they maybe do blasting (or similar) to bring fresh rock down & make it easier for visiting diggers? Any and all good first-hand Herkimer advice is welcome. Cheers & thanks Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From birago23 at hotmail.com Sun Nov 13 00:18:05 2005 From: birago23 at hotmail.com (Arthur Birago) Date: Mon Nov 14 15:18:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] hardening of minerals Message-ID: Hi! I am wondering if it is possible through diffusion to increase the = hardness of certain minerals? Has it been done before? Does anybody have any information to share on = this subject? Are there any other ways like coating of gemstones etc to increase the hardness of a = 3.5 - 4 mineral? Any information etc would be highly appreciated. thanks arthur --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Nov 14 15:24:04 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Mon Nov 14 15:25:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] hardening of minerals References: Message-ID: <00b801c5e972$860debd0$12b4010a@warren> btw - this was forwarded from a non member post, so if your answering, please answer to him AND the list. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Birago" To: Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 12:18 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] hardening of minerals Hi! I am wondering if it is possible through diffusion to increase the hardness of certain minerals? Has it been done before? Does anybody have any information to share on this subject? Are there any other ways like coating of gemstones etc to increase the hardness of a 3.5 - 4 mineral? Any information etc would be highly appreciated. thanks arthur --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From johnjold at comcast.net Mon Nov 14 18:16:17 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Mon Nov 14 18:16:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE:NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds Message-ID: Herkimer Diamond Development has a nice display of crystals from their mine. This is north about 8 miles from the Herkimer turnpike exit in Middleville. This is also a large rockshop. I saw an exceptional display of sized crystals in a display case in the old Victorian Library in Little Falls. 9 baskets graduated in size and all perfect collected at the turn of the century by a dentist who took them in trade. If into caves, Howe Caverns is in the area and is worthwhile. From magnet at crocoite.com Tue Nov 15 00:24:14 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Tue Nov 15 00:24:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Herkimer Location Question (was Digging, collecting etc) Message-ID: <20051115082414.32664.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi Larry and the list For the benefit of an "out-of-towner", what is the most likely location of herkimers. I have one specimen labelled Middleville (a small quartz crystal on matrix) and a larger specimen labelled Crystal Grove. Regards Steve Distant lands - aka Tasmania > -------Original Message------- > From: Lawrence Rush > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Digging, collecting or visiting - New York to NB Canada > Sent: 14 Nov '05 04:31 > > Hans: The Herkimer diamond mines are west of Pittsfield, Ma, in NY just off > of the NY thruway. The closest one is in St. Johnsville, about an hours > drive from Pittsfield. Others are further west in Middleville, about an hour > and a half drive. Also, there used to be a rock shop in Albany, just west of > Pittsfield, but I don't know if it is still there. > Larry From davisj at earthlink.net Mon Nov 14 09:51:46 2005 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Tue Nov 15 03:12:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rust in a highland park 14" In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051113182902.0287b550@orerockon.com> Message-ID: PETROLEUM jelly????? As in Vaseline. Maybe you mean naval jelly or the like --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From Lapidry at aol.com Tue Nov 15 03:28:40 2005 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 15 03:28:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Herkimer Location Question (was Digging, collecting etc) Message-ID: <21d.2cb1810.30ab2068@aol.com> Steve: Your Middleville location is a rather broad range. There are two fee dig places literally side by side. Herkimer Diamond Mines and Ace of Diamonds. Herkimer Diamond Mines is actually the combination of two businesses several years ago. The other business was something like Deer Valley or some name like that. I don't remember exactly. Then you have the fact that there are other places nearby that produce herks. Even the river that runs a couple hundred yards away from the fee sites produces stones - mostly that have washed in. Of these two fee sites, I prefer Ace of Diamonds. The owners are working it for themselves so there's a lot more fresh movement than the other. Crystal Grove is a specific commercial site. Nice campgrounds and nice owners. A little harder to find nice herks though. It's probably 20+ miles - maybe close to 30, from Middleville, outside New Palatine, NY. The other side of the town of Herkimer. There are or have been a number of commercial sites, not to mention private property. I know of at least 7 commercial sites and have been on a couple dozen private properties that have all produced herks. Margaret Hasting's Diamond Acres, Stone Arabia, Treasure Mountain, Hickory Hills, one near St. Johnsville, and several others that are closed or near to it. Several of the local quarries have been good sites. Benchmark among them. To be honest, I don't see a point, at least not in my life, where herks will be rare. If the price is there, there's a ton of properties that could be worked. I could see the fee sites close due to lack of profitability though. That's happened to a number of them. Hope this helps..... Dan In a message dated 11/15/2005 3:26:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, magnet@crocoite.com writes: Hi Larry and the list For the benefit of an "out-of-towner", what is the most likely location of herkimers. I have one specimen labelled Middleville (a small quartz crystal on matrix) and a larger specimen labelled Crystal Grove. Regards Steve Distant lands - aka Tasmania --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Tue Nov 15 05:42:51 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Nov 15 05:43:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rust in a highland park 14" In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051113182902.0287b550@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051115054238.029566c8@orerockon.com> Yeah, brain fart! At 09:51 AM 11/14/2005, you wrote: >PETROLEUM jelly????? As in Vaseline. Maybe you mean naval jelly or the like Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 15 06:58:27 2005 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Nov 15 06:58:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds References: Message-ID: <000c01c5e9f5$09bc6c90$e88c4c0c@LarryRush> Hans: Yes, the dolomite where the Herkimers are found is very hard. Hammers seem to bounce back harder than you strike! Heavy tools are usually recommended. For that reason, you should try the St. Johnsvillle site, which is in the Crystal Grove campground (turn right at the only stop light, about 3 miles north on your right). The owners are very helpful and there is a small digging fee. Here, there is a 3 foot ledge exposed and you can work it straight downward with hand chisels and sledges. The crystals here do not occur in large vugs, as in Middletown, and are usually found singly, and are smaller, from 1-2cm. But, they are exceedingly clear, and really resemble diamonds in your palm! Look for small starting cracks, and work off sheets, looking in the fractures, and small vugs. Many occur as matrix specs. and are very attractive. If the rock looks at all vuggy, break it down into smalller chunks. Good collecting.......Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:51 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds > > Hi all. > > I have been warned by friends that I should not expect easy traffic > anywhere in heavily populated areas on the day before American > Thanksgiving. Hence I'll be delivering alabaster in New York not Wednesday > but Tuesday and will try to head some way North out of NYC on Tuesday > also. > > It looks like the recreational part of the trip will likely be Herkimer > digging. (Thanks Larry for that suggestion). In that respect, would anyone > care make some specific recommendations as to places (fee digs I would > imagine?) to go digging? Any real good ones? Also, I'm told the mother > rock that holds the "diamond" pockets is miserably hard to work. That > being so, what tools should I bring? And since time is short, is there a > place where they maybe do blasting (or similar) to bring fresh rock down & > make it easier for visiting diggers? > > Any and all good first-hand Herkimer advice is welcome. > > Cheers & thanks > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Nov 15 10:37:22 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Nov 15 10:37:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] magnetite in limestone Message-ID: <111520051837.27123.437A2AE1000AE327000069F3216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Paul, Magnetite normally occurs in limestone (only) where it has been contact-metamorphosed, in contact with igneous intrusions. These often produce mineable iron ore deposits, such as in places which include several deposits Pennsylvania, Utah, New Mexico, and many others around the U.S. and world. Morgantown, PA, is one such deposit. These are known geologically as "skarn" deposits, also as contact metasomatic iron deposits. Pete -------------- Original message from "Paul" : -------------- > I go to the old magnetite mine in Morgantown, Pa and I find limestone with > magnetite in it. I was just wondering how common an occurence this is. Are > there other localities in the states/world where that occurs? > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Tue Nov 15 11:20:37 2005 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Tue Nov 15 11:20:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw Lub Message-ID: <20051115192037.84530.qmail@web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here I am again!! My husband asked if motor oil would work with my saw. Told him I knew where to get the answer. Is it to heavy? Thanks for all the replies on my other email. June --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Blueriverjewelry at aol.com Tue Nov 15 12:56:07 2005 From: Blueriverjewelry at aol.com (Blueriverjewelry@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 15 12:56:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 18, Issue 24 Message-ID: I worked one summer in a factory that cleaned then readied train axles (yes, they were huge) for re-use. We used 'Simple Green' and paint scrapers, then glopped the greasy oil right into buckets. It worked, when many other expensive, industrial cleaners didn't. And with Simple Green there are no toxic fumes. Those train axles were bright when we finished with them. Susy McMahan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Tue Nov 15 14:07:57 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Nov 15 14:08:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Highland Park Saw Lub In-Reply-To: <20051115192037.84530.qmail@web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051115192037.84530.qmail@web35607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051115140709.028ed550@orerockon.com> Motor oil will absolutely not work as a lubricant for a rock saw. At 11:20 AM 11/15/2005, you wrote: >Here I am again!! >My husband asked if motor oil would work with my saw. Told him I >knew where to get the answer. Is it to heavy? >Thanks for all the replies on my other email. >June Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From pbhewitt at comcast.net Tue Nov 15 14:08:39 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Tue Nov 15 14:09:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] I am SCOPED! References: Message-ID: <007101c5ea31$22a9d620$6401a8c0@maingear> To DonH and everyone else that aided me in making my decision about which microscope to buy ... a hearty thank you! I got my Nikon today and the first thing I put under it was a specimen that has tiny clear/brown garnet crystals all over it. I could barely make them out with a 30x loupe but with the scope they are huge and in great detail. I plan to spend hours examining and photographing minerals and finding new and exciting things that I never knew were there. Next step is to find a camera adapter for the photography part. I will be sure and upload photos for people to look at. Regards, Paul in Marietta, Pa From llbullbull at hotmail.com Tue Nov 15 15:13:36 2005 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Tue Nov 15 15:13:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds In-Reply-To: <000c01c5e9f5$09bc6c90$e88c4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: Hello: Are you sure that Crystal Grove is still open? In the past my recollection they have closed for the season. Take care, Larry Bull >From: "Lawrence Rush" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds >Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:58:27 -0500 > >Hans: Yes, the dolomite where the Herkimers are found is very hard. Hammers >seem to bounce back harder than you strike! Heavy tools are usually >recommended. For that reason, you should try the St. Johnsvillle site, >which is in the Crystal Grove campground (turn right at the only stop >light, about 3 miles north on your right). The owners are very helpful and >there is a small digging fee. Here, there is a 3 foot ledge exposed and you >can work it straight downward with hand chisels and sledges. The crystals >here do not occur in large vugs, as in Middletown, and are usually found >singly, and are smaller, from 1-2cm. But, they are exceedingly clear, and >really resemble diamonds in your palm! Look for small starting cracks, and >work off sheets, looking in the fractures, and small vugs. Many occur as >matrix specs. and are very attractive. If the rock looks at all vuggy, >break it down into smalller chunks. Good collecting.......Larry > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:51 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds > > >> >>Hi all. >> >>I have been warned by friends that I should not expect easy traffic >>anywhere in heavily populated areas on the day before American >>Thanksgiving. Hence I'll be delivering alabaster in New York not Wednesday >>but Tuesday and will try to head some way North out of NYC on Tuesday >>also. >> >>It looks like the recreational part of the trip will likely be Herkimer >>digging. (Thanks Larry for that suggestion). In that respect, would anyone >>care make some specific recommendations as to places (fee digs I would >>imagine?) to go digging? Any real good ones? Also, I'm told the mother >>rock that holds the "diamond" pockets is miserably hard to work. That >>being so, what tools should I bring? And since time is short, is there a >>place where they maybe do blasting (or similar) to bring fresh rock down & >>make it easier for visiting diggers? >> >>Any and all good first-hand Herkimer advice is welcome. >> >>Cheers & thanks >>Hans Durstling >>Moncton, Canada >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From Ted at crystalgems.com Tue Nov 15 17:32:09 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Tue Nov 15 17:32:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c5ea4d$83a66a30$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Larry: I think you are correct and that it might be a little late to be able to dig at any of the fee sites. It is always worth a phone call to double check though. http://www.crystalgrove.com/mining.html http://www.herkimerdiamonds.com/index.htm http://www.herkimerdiamond.com/Mining.htm http://www.treasuremt.com/ Ted -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Bull Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:14 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds Hello: Are you sure that Crystal Grove is still open? In the past my recollection they have closed for the season. Take care, Larry Bull >From: "Lawrence Rush" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds >Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:58:27 -0500 > >Hans: Yes, the dolomite where the Herkimers are found is very hard. Hammers >seem to bounce back harder than you strike! Heavy tools are usually >recommended. For that reason, you should try the St. Johnsvillle site, >which is in the Crystal Grove campground (turn right at the only stop >light, about 3 miles north on your right). The owners are very helpful and >there is a small digging fee. Here, there is a 3 foot ledge exposed and you >can work it straight downward with hand chisels and sledges. The crystals >here do not occur in large vugs, as in Middletown, and are usually found >singly, and are smaller, from 1-2cm. But, they are exceedingly clear, and >really resemble diamonds in your palm! Look for small starting cracks, and >work off sheets, looking in the fractures, and small vugs. Many occur as >matrix specs. and are very attractive. If the rock looks at all vuggy, >break it down into smalller chunks. Good collecting.......Larry > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:51 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds > > >> >>Hi all. >> >>I have been warned by friends that I should not expect easy traffic >>anywhere in heavily populated areas on the day before American >>Thanksgiving. Hence I'll be delivering alabaster in New York not Wednesday >>but Tuesday and will try to head some way North out of NYC on Tuesday >>also. >> >>It looks like the recreational part of the trip will likely be Herkimer >>digging. (Thanks Larry for that suggestion). In that respect, would anyone >>care make some specific recommendations as to places (fee digs I would >>imagine?) to go digging? Any real good ones? Also, I'm told the mother >>rock that holds the "diamond" pockets is miserably hard to work. That >>being so, what tools should I bring? And since time is short, is there a >>place where they maybe do blasting (or similar) to bring fresh rock down & >>make it easier for visiting diggers? >> >>Any and all good first-hand Herkimer advice is welcome. >> >>Cheers & thanks >>Hans Durstling >>Moncton, Canada >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From roughrock at gmail.com Tue Nov 15 19:27:03 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Tue Nov 15 19:27:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice In-Reply-To: <9f.6c3c859b.30a9505f@aol.com> References: <9f.6c3c859b.30a9505f@aol.com> Message-ID: Gene Hartstien wrote "soponifying the partly polymerized oils....." What the heck does that mean? Grant On 11/13/05, FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > No doubt you are soponifying the partly polymerized oils and breaking them > down with the oven cleaner. When you are done, if some of the carbonate still > remains you can try an acidic product like CLR. > > Gene Hartstein > > > In a message dated 11/13/2005 1:42:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca writes: > > Michael, I've tried a product from Costco called "Oil Eater" which is an > industrial strength cleaner intended for Petroleum based applications. It > had a very minimal effect and required a lot of brushing and scrubbing. It > appears Oven Cleaner is 10 times faster and easier. It appears to breakdown > the stuff to allow water to wash it away. Thanks again! > Wes > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From johnjold at comcast.net Tue Nov 15 19:32:00 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Tue Nov 15 19:32:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: new fossil Message-ID: <9ed25533c1b59340f8273db14e9e43e4@comcast.net> Another article about the T-Rex headed croc. This one has a picture of the restored head as well as the skull. http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=0005CBD4-BC60 -1373-BC6083414B7F0000 From agesilaus at gmail.com Tue Nov 15 19:42:31 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Nov 15 19:42:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice In-Reply-To: References: <9f.6c3c859b.30a9505f@aol.com> Message-ID: Saponification is the process of making soaps out of oils usually in the presence of a strong base...traditionally lye, polymerization is the linking together, chemically, of small units into long chains. Plastics are polymers, but there are liquid polymers as well. BK On 11/15/05, Grant Johnston wrote: > > Gene Hartstien wrote "soponifying the partly polymerized oils....." > What the heck does that mean? Grant > > On 11/13/05, FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > > > No doubt you are soponifying the partly polymerized oils and breaking > them > > down with the oven cleaner. When you are done, if some of the carbonate > still > > remains you can try an acidic product like CLR. > > > > Gene Hartstein > > > > > > In a message dated 11/13/2005 1:42:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca writes: > > > > Michael, I've tried a product from Costco called "Oil Eater" which is an > > industrial strength cleaner intended for Petroleum based applications. > It > > had a very minimal effect and required a lot of brushing and scrubbing. > It > > appears Oven Cleaner is 10 times faster and easier. It appears to > breakdown > > the stuff to allow water to wash it away. Thanks again! > > Wes > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 15 20:10:24 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 15 20:04:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice References: <9f.6c3c859b.30a9505f@aol.com> Message-ID: <437AAFDD.6507@Tomaszewski.net> Grant, Soponify... Emulsify. Soften. Soap molecules have one end that loves water and one end that loves oils. One end of a soap molecule attaches itself to an oil molecule, and the water loving end pulls it into the solution so it can be washed away. The lye is acting as a hard soap and is breaking down the polymerized oil (meaning the oil molecules are connecting to each other to make a plastic), softening it. Do a google on the word and you can learn more about soaps than you ever wanted to know. Kreigh Grant Johnston wrote: > > Gene Hartstien wrote "soponifying the partly polymerized oils....." > What the heck does that mean? Grant > > On 11/13/05, FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: > > > > No doubt you are soponifying the partly polymerized oils and breaking them > > down with the oven cleaner. When you are done, if some of the carbonate still > > remains you can try an acidic product like CLR. > > > > Gene Hartstein > > > > > > In a message dated 11/13/2005 1:42:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca writes: > > > > Michael, I've tried a product from Costco called "Oil Eater" which is an > > industrial strength cleaner intended for Petroleum based applications. It > > had a very minimal effect and required a lot of brushing and scrubbing. It > > appears Oven Cleaner is 10 times faster and easier. It appears to breakdown > > the stuff to allow water to wash it away. Thanks again! > > Wes > > From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Wed Nov 16 06:12:29 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 16 06:12:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice Message-ID: <6B150BD2.5F6A918B.02180873@aol.com> OOPS, sorry. The reason the oils are so hard to remove is they were vegetable oils with double bonds (we call them polyunsaturates). The double bonds can open with time and connect one molecule to another making a polymer, which gets harder to remove the longer it gets. Soponification is the process of making soap with oils. In this case we are going back to the traditional soaps which consist of a long organic molecule on one end which likes grease and oil, and a hydrophillic (likes water) unit on the other end (in this case the sodium from the lye). In this case the lye in the oven cleaner is both breaking down the polymer and turning it into a soap, which will readily wash away with water. Gene Hartstein In a message dated 11/15/2005 10:27:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, Grant Johnston writes: >Gene Hartstien wrote "soponifying the partly polymerized oils....." >What the heck does that mean? ? ?Grant > >On 11/13/05, FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: >> >> No doubt you are soponifying the partly polymerized oils and breaking them >> down with the oven cleaner. When you are done, if some of the carbonate still >> remains you can try an acidic product like CLR. >> >> Gene Hartstein >> >> >> In a message dated 11/13/2005 1:42:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca writes: >> >> Michael, ?I've tried a product from Costco called "Oil Eater" which is an >> industrial ?strength cleaner intended for Petroleum based applications. It >> had a very ?minimal effect and required a lot of brushing and scrubbing. It >> appears ?Oven Cleaner is 10 times faster and easier. It appears to breakdown >> the ?stuff to allow water to wash it away. Thanks ?again! >> Wes >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> ?text/plain (text body -- kept) >> ?text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 16 07:18:45 2005 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Nov 16 07:27:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds References: Message-ID: <005a01c5eac2$374941b0$928c4c0c@LarryRush> You may be right, Larry....Hans, it would be prudent to call ahead! At any rate, the owners are there all winter, and may let you dig anyway. Larry Rush =========================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Bull" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:13 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds > Hello: > > Are you sure that Crystal Grove is still open? In the past my > recollection they have closed for the season. > > Take care, > > Larry Bull > > >>From: "Lawrence Rush" >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds >>Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:58:27 -0500 >> >>Hans: Yes, the dolomite where the Herkimers are found is very hard. >>Hammers seem to bounce back harder than you strike! Heavy tools are >>usually recommended. For that reason, you should try the St. Johnsvillle >>site, which is in the Crystal Grove campground (turn right at the only >>stop light, about 3 miles north on your right). The owners are very >>helpful and there is a small digging fee. Here, there is a 3 foot ledge >>exposed and you can work it straight downward with hand chisels and >>sledges. The crystals here do not occur in large vugs, as in Middletown, >>and are usually found singly, and are smaller, from 1-2cm. But, they are >>exceedingly clear, and really resemble diamonds in your palm! Look for >>small starting cracks, and work off sheets, looking in the fractures, and >>small vugs. Many occur as matrix specs. and are very attractive. If the >>rock looks at all vuggy, break it down into smalller chunks. Good >>collecting.......Larry >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >>Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:51 PM >>Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds >> >> >>> >>>Hi all. >>> >>>I have been warned by friends that I should not expect easy traffic >>>anywhere in heavily populated areas on the day before American >>>Thanksgiving. Hence I'll be delivering alabaster in New York not >>>Wednesday but Tuesday and will try to head some way North out of NYC on >>>Tuesday also. >>> >>>It looks like the recreational part of the trip will likely be Herkimer >>>digging. (Thanks Larry for that suggestion). In that respect, would >>>anyone care make some specific recommendations as to places (fee digs I >>>would imagine?) to go digging? Any real good ones? Also, I'm told the >>>mother rock that holds the "diamond" pockets is miserably hard to work. >>>That being so, what tools should I bring? And since time is short, is >>>there a place where they maybe do blasting (or similar) to bring fresh >>>rock down & make it easier for visiting diggers? >>> >>>Any and all good first-hand Herkimer advice is welcome. >>> >>>Cheers & thanks >>>Hans Durstling >>>Moncton, Canada >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Wed Nov 16 12:37:24 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 16 12:37:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Request for advice Message-ID: <0208F588.219024D2.02180873@aol.com> BTW, that is why bases feel slippery. They are converting the oils in your fingers to soap. Allowed to continue they will turn your hands to soap (which is a bad thing). Gene Hartstein In a message dated 11/16/2005 9:12:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, FOSSILNUT@aol.com writes: >X-INFO: INVALID TO LINE >OOPS, sorry. The reason the oils are so hard to remove is they were vegetable oils with double bonds (we call them polyunsaturates). The double bonds can open with time and connect one molecule to another making a polymer, which gets harder to remove the longer it gets. > >Soponification is the process of making soap with oils. In this case we are going back to the traditional soaps which consist of a long organic molecule on one end which likes grease and oil, and a hydrophillic (likes water) unit on the other end (in this case the sodium from the lye). In this case the lye in the oven cleaner is both breaking down the polymer and turning it into a soap, which will readily wash away with water. > >Gene Hartstein > >In a message dated 11/15/2005 10:27:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, Grant Johnston writes: > >>Gene Hartstien wrote "soponifying the partly polymerized oils....." >>What the heck does that mean? ? ?Grant >> >>On 11/13/05, FOSSILNUT@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> No doubt you are soponifying the partly polymerized oils and breaking them >>> down with the oven cleaner. When you are done, if some of the carbonate still >>> remains you can try an acidic product like CLR. >>> >>> Gene Hartstein >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 11/13/2005 1:42:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>> dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca writes: >>> >>> Michael, ?I've tried a product from Costco called "Oil Eater" which is an >>> industrial ?strength cleaner intended for Petroleum based applications. It >>> had a very ?minimal effect and required a lot of brushing and scrubbing. It >>> appears ?Oven Cleaner is 10 times faster and easier. It appears to breakdown >>> the ?stuff to allow water to wash it away. Thanks ?again! >>> Wes >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> ?text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> ?text/html >>> --- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From llbullbull at hotmail.com Wed Nov 16 15:43:33 2005 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Wed Nov 16 15:43:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds In-Reply-To: <005a01c5eac2$374941b0$928c4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: Hi Larry and List: Will we see you all at the Worcester Mineral Show this weekend at the National Guard Armory on Lincoln Street from 10:00 to 5:00? Take care, Larry Bull >From: "Lawrence Rush" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds >Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:18:45 -0500 > >You may be right, Larry....Hans, it would be prudent to call ahead! At any >rate, the owners are there all winter, and may let you dig anyway. >Larry Rush >=========================== >----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Bull" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:13 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds > > >>Hello: >> >>Are you sure that Crystal Grove is still open? In the past my >>recollection they have closed for the season. >> >>Take care, >> >>Larry Bull >> >> >>>From: "Lawrence Rush" >>>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>>collectors" >>>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>>collectors" >>>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds >>>Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:58:27 -0500 >>> >>>Hans: Yes, the dolomite where the Herkimers are found is very hard. >>>Hammers seem to bounce back harder than you strike! Heavy tools are >>>usually recommended. For that reason, you should try the St. Johnsvillle >>>site, which is in the Crystal Grove campground (turn right at the only >>>stop light, about 3 miles north on your right). The owners are very >>>helpful and there is a small digging fee. Here, there is a 3 foot ledge >>>exposed and you can work it straight downward with hand chisels and >>>sledges. The crystals here do not occur in large vugs, as in Middletown, >>>and are usually found singly, and are smaller, from 1-2cm. But, they are >>>exceedingly clear, and really resemble diamonds in your palm! Look for >>>small starting cracks, and work off sheets, looking in the fractures, and >>>small vugs. Many occur as matrix specs. and are very attractive. If the >>>rock looks at all vuggy, break it down into smalller chunks. Good >>>collecting.......Larry >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" >>>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >>> >>>Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:51 PM >>>Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds >>> >>> >>>> >>>>Hi all. >>>> >>>>I have been warned by friends that I should not expect easy traffic >>>>anywhere in heavily populated areas on the day before American >>>>Thanksgiving. Hence I'll be delivering alabaster in New York not >>>>Wednesday but Tuesday and will try to head some way North out of NYC on >>>>Tuesday also. >>>> >>>>It looks like the recreational part of the trip will likely be Herkimer >>>>digging. (Thanks Larry for that suggestion). In that respect, would >>>>anyone care make some specific recommendations as to places (fee digs I >>>>would imagine?) to go digging? Any real good ones? Also, I'm told the >>>>mother rock that holds the "diamond" pockets is miserably hard to work. >>>>That being so, what tools should I bring? And since time is short, is >>>>there a place where they maybe do blasting (or similar) to bring fresh >>>>rock down & make it easier for visiting diggers? >>>> >>>>Any and all good first-hand Herkimer advice is welcome. >>>> >>>>Cheers & thanks >>>>Hans Durstling >>>>Moncton, Canada >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>>Subscription Services: >>>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Wed Nov 16 18:16:42 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Wed Nov 16 18:05:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds References: <001001c5ea4d$83a66a30$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <006f01c5eb1c$f392c120$887ea118@feldsparflash> Fonda collecting site for Herkimers is still open! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Kowalski" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds > Larry: > I think you are correct and that it might be a little late to be able to dig > at any of the fee sites. It is always worth a phone call to double check > though. > > http://www.crystalgrove.com/mining.html > > http://www.herkimerdiamonds.com/index.htm > > http://www.herkimerdiamond.com/Mining.htm > > http://www.treasuremt.com/ > > Ted > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Bull > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 6:14 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds > > Hello: > > Are you sure that Crystal Grove is still open? In the past my recollection > they have closed for the season. > > Take care, > > Larry Bull > > > >From: "Lawrence Rush" > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds > >Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:58:27 -0500 > > > >Hans: Yes, the dolomite where the Herkimers are found is very hard. Hammers > > >seem to bounce back harder than you strike! Heavy tools are usually > >recommended. For that reason, you should try the St. Johnsvillle site, > >which is in the Crystal Grove campground (turn right at the only stop > >light, about 3 miles north on your right). The owners are very helpful and > >there is a small digging fee. Here, there is a 3 foot ledge exposed and you > > >can work it straight downward with hand chisels and sledges. The crystals > >here do not occur in large vugs, as in Middletown, and are usually found > >singly, and are smaller, from 1-2cm. But, they are exceedingly clear, and > >really resemble diamonds in your palm! Look for small starting cracks, and > >work off sheets, looking in the fractures, and small vugs. Many occur as > >matrix specs. and are very attractive. If the rock looks at all vuggy, > >break it down into smalller chunks. Good collecting.......Larry > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > >Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:51 PM > >Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds > > > > > >> > >>Hi all. > >> > >>I have been warned by friends that I should not expect easy traffic > >>anywhere in heavily populated areas on the day before American > >>Thanksgiving. Hence I'll be delivering alabaster in New York not Wednesday > > >>but Tuesday and will try to head some way North out of NYC on Tuesday > >>also. > >> > >>It looks like the recreational part of the trip will likely be Herkimer > >>digging. (Thanks Larry for that suggestion). In that respect, would anyone > > >>care make some specific recommendations as to places (fee digs I would > >>imagine?) to go digging? Any real good ones? Also, I'm told the mother > >>rock that holds the "diamond" pockets is miserably hard to work. That > >>being so, what tools should I bring? And since time is short, is there a > >>place where they maybe do blasting (or similar) to bring fresh rock down & > > >>make it easier for visiting diggers? > >> > >>Any and all good first-hand Herkimer advice is welcome. > >> > >>Cheers & thanks > >>Hans Durstling > >>Moncton, Canada > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >>Subscription Services: > >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Nov 17 06:00:26 2005 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Nov 17 06:00:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds In-Reply-To: <006f01c5eb1c$f392c120$887ea118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <002e01c5eb7f$3462a0a0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Carolyn: Good suggestion! I found some web info on Diamond Acres in Fonda, NY; but I couldn't locate a contact number. http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/jhbnyc/trips/fonda.htm http://www.worcestermineralclub.org/article1.htm Larry: Would you have contact information for Diamond Acres? (I noticed you authored the article at the Worcester Mineral club web site) Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Nov 17 08:34:07 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Nov 17 08:34:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]Fault lines in Houston area Message-ID: <111720051634.6929.437CB0FF0005450400001B11216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear (Rachel), The USGS has done a number of studies over the years on fault lines in the Houston area. These are small faults of ground subsidence due to pumping of oil and water from the subsurface, not "earthquake" faults due to tectonic activity; so in general, their movement is by slow, gradual subsidence, not earthquakes, so I would presume, not much of a concern unless you have a building sitting right on top of one. I haven't had any time to search the USGS website to find any online or otherwise, reports that can show you the location of all these faults, but if you are still interested, I could try to help you find this. (living in Denver, I, of course, have no idea where "the galleria" is in Houston) And yes, Earl Verbeek, on the Rockhounds list, did indeed work on this topic and prepared some of those reports, back when he worked for the USGS, way back in the 80s I think. Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from "Gibaut, Russel P" : -------------- > Jeanette, I was cruising the web for fault lines in the galleria area in > Houston. Do you have or know anyone who has this information? Thanks, > Rachel > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pmcallow at yahoo.com Thu Nov 17 09:02:02 2005 From: pmcallow at yahoo.com (Philip Callow) Date: Thu Nov 17 09:02:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Two Questions Message-ID: <20051117170202.80029.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Group: How and what do you use to wash slabs just out of the oil based slab saw. What products do you use to clean the slabs.(in addition to kitty litter). I am looking for a used flat or horizontal lap either in the 12 inch or 14 inch size. This is not the vibration type of lap. I would love to find one west of the Mississippi. Thank you. Phil Callow pmcallow@yahoo.com From Cycadwood at aol.com Thu Nov 17 09:29:35 2005 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 17 09:29:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Two Questions Message-ID: <1ff.db4b640.30ae17ff@aol.com> In a message dated 11/17/2005 10:03:43 AM Mountain Standard Time, pmcallow@yahoo.com writes: How and what do you use to wash slabs just out of the oil based slab saw. What products do you use to clean the slabs.(in addition to kitty litter). First I plant them in Shop Dry for about 24 hours. Then I wash them in hot water with Tide. Then I soak them in hot water with Tide for about 24 hours. Then I wash them again with Tide and hot water. Works for me. Frank Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 westerncolopub@aol.com 970.242.5255 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Ferns, Cones, and Cycads and the soon to be released Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Thu Nov 17 11:54:23 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Thu Nov 17 11:43:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds References: <002e01c5eb7f$3462a0a0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <001401c5ebb0$b57b3810$887ea118@feldsparflash> You may not find a contact number. This is a very informal place. You leave a dollar at the trailer. I can give you exact directions if you need them. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Kowalski" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:00 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] NYC to NB Canada - Herkimer Diamonds > Carolyn: > Good suggestion! > > I found some web info on Diamond Acres in Fonda, NY; but I couldn't locate a > contact number. > > http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/jhbnyc/trips/fonda.htm > > http://www.worcestermineralclub.org/article1.htm > > Larry: Would you have contact information for Diamond Acres? (I noticed you > authored the article at the Worcester Mineral club web site) > > Ted Kowalski > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From davisj at earthlink.net Thu Nov 17 15:24:14 2005 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Thu Nov 17 15:24:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Two Questions In-Reply-To: <20051117170202.80029.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I keep a 5 gallon bucket containing a couple of gallons of warm water and a couple of shots of liquid dish washing soap adjacent to the saw and dump the slabs into this mixture straight from the saw. When through with my cutting session I take the slabs to a sink and squirt them with a solution of the same stuff and rinse off. I keep a dishwashing soap bottle with about an inch of soap and the rest water at the sink. From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Nov 17 16:51:45 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Nov 17 16:49:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Two Questions References: <20051117170202.80029.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002001c5ebda$41a298a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> After the kitty litter I put them in a bucket into which the washing machine empties. I leave them in there for a couple weeks. The laundry soap is then reused to clean my slabs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Callow" To: Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:02 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Two Questions > Hi Group: > > How and what do you use to wash slabs just out of the > oil based slab saw. What products do you use to clean > the slabs.(in addition to kitty litter). > > I am looking for a used flat or horizontal lap either > in the 12 inch or 14 inch size. This is not the > vibration type of lap. I would love to find one west > of the Mississippi. > > Thank you. > > Phil Callow > pmcallow@yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Nov 17 17:11:06 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 17 17:11:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs References: <20051117170202.80029.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002001c5ebda$41a298a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <00a401c5ebdc$f4393710$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Gee....I must be doing something wrong. I just absorb all the oil I can with newspaper, then wash them with Dawn Dishwashing Soap and let them dry. Am I missing something here?? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" > After the kitty litter I put them in a bucket into which the washing > machine > empties. I leave them in there for a couple weeks. The laundry soap is > then > reused to clean my slabs. From tim at orerockon.com Thu Nov 17 17:24:49 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 17 17:24:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs In-Reply-To: <00a401c5ebdc$f4393710$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <20051117170202.80029.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002001c5ebda$41a298a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <00a401c5ebdc$f4393710$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051117171854.026a4658@orerockon.com> It depends on what you are going to do with them. If you are going to cab them on a diamond wheel, then removing every last trace of oil is a very good thing to do. If you are going to cab them on a silicon carbide unit or polish them on a flat lap with a little soap in the water (always a good idea) then soaking for an hour or two and handwashing with dishwashing liquid is probably adequate. If you are going to sphere a piece with diamond heads, then soaking for days in commercial degreaser or baking it overnight is almost required, since you will be coating it with hot stuff anyway in order to get a good polish, and cyanoacrylate doesn't stick to oily surfaces very well. I agree that the responses posted so far are towards the over-the-top end of the spectrum. If I need something to be that oil-free I handwash it then bake it overnight at 200F. At 05:11 PM 11/17/2005, you wrote: >Gee....I must be doing something wrong. I just absorb all the oil I >can with newspaper, then wash them with Dawn Dishwashing Soap and >let them dry. Am I missing something here?? >Jeanette > >----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" > >>After the kitty litter I put them in a bucket into which the washing machine >>empties. I leave them in there for a couple weeks. The laundry soap is then >>reused to clean my slabs. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Nov 17 17:40:15 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Nov 17 17:40:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A show to benefit the Clement Mineral Museum? Message-ID: <009501c5ebe1$068f49f0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I am working with the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, Kentucky generating ideas to help the museum survive. One idea I want to flesh out is a gem, mineral and fossil show as a museum fundraising event and to increase their visibility in the rock hound community. I would like to propose some dates for a show at Fohs Hall, the community building next to the Clement Museum. I don't want it to conflict with others shows in a 4 to 5 hour driving radius of western Kentucky (places like Nashville, Memphis, St. Louis, Rolla, Evansville, Indianapolis, Carbondale, Louisville, Lexington, and Cincinnati). Unlike shows in major cities, the small town location requires a lot of participation from people visiting from around the region. To help bring folks in, there would be collecting trips to mine dumps in the area and perhaps coordinating a visit to the American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare. If anyone can tell me show dates for any of those cities, I would appreciate it. The organized collecting trips seem to be pretty popular. I think folks who attended the one held October 29 - 30 had a good time. I am currently working with Bill Frazer to have another trip in the spring. This time the track hoe will concentrate on the old dumps and vein and not poke around elsewhere looking for ore in unknown areas. We are also investigating new sites. (Well, old mines that have not been dug for fluorite since they closed many decades ago.) Currently the list includes about a half-dozen fluorite or zinc mines in Kentucky fluorspar district. I have not tried to expand into Hardin Co., IL because there doesn't seem to be an interest in attracting rock hounds. For those not familiar with the itinerary a few weeks back... We started at the Columbia mine where we collected galena, smithsonite, quartz, and fluorite. Folks poked around the Mary Belle mine, the dumps have been untouched for some 60 to 70 years. Then we visited the Babb-Barnes mill / mine (a mixture of local and Mexican spar). On Sunday we visited the Lafayette mine dumps (the Hutson mine was also planned but Bill misplaced the key to the gate.) In the spring we hope to include some new sites, although we will probably only dig the area associated with the Columbia mine and probably the nearby Eureka prospects (which has fluorite cubes up to 1.5" across). Bill opened a buried shaft last month, so that mine was off-limits. Next time I think he will move the rock away from the area where it can be worked in safety. Fluorite crystals can actually be found in the creek which is usually has a foot of water in it! We will limit the number of participants to 30 or less (last time was 36, a bit too many) and the fee will be in the $30 to $40 range for the weekend. If you can help me (paragraph 1) or are interested in participating in a collecting trip next spring, let me know. Regards, Alan Goldstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Nov 17 17:52:21 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 17 17:52:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051117171854.026a4658@orerockon.com> Message-ID: And while we're on this subject, what are some recommended coatings? And how does one go about their application? Thanks, Glenn From: Tim Fisher <tim@orerockon.com>  It depends on what you are going to do with them. If you are going to cab them on a diamond wheel, then removing every last trace of oil is a very good thing to do. If you are going to cab them on a silicon carbide unit or polish them on a flat lap with a little soap in the water (always a good idea) then soaking for an hour or two and handwashing with dishwashing liquid is probably adequate. If you are going to sphere a piece with diamond heads, then soaking for days in commercial degreaser or baking it overnight is almost required, since you will be coating it with hot stuff anyway in order to get a good polish, and cyanoacrylate doesn't stick to oily surfaces very well. I agree that the responses posted so far are towards the over-the-top end of the spectrum. If I need something to be that oil-free I handwash it then bake it overnight at 200F. At 05:11 PM 11/17/2005, you wrote: Gee....I must be doing something wrong. I just absorb all the oil I can with newspaper, then wash them with Dawn Dishwashing Soap and let them dry. Am I missing something here?? Jeanette ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 17 17:56:57 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 17 17:55:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A show to benefit the Clement Mineral Museum? In-Reply-To: <009501c5ebe1$068f49f0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <009501c5ebe1$068f49f0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <437D34E9.1010402@verizon.net> Alan Goldstein wrote: > I am working with the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, Kentucky generating ideas to help the museum survive. > One idea I want to flesh out is a gem, mineral and fossil show as a museum fundraising event and to increase > their visibility in the rock hound community. I would like to propose some dates for a show at Fohs Hall . . . Hi, This is a wonderful idea. However, you also want to find the dates of other major and regional shows, like Tuscon, Denver, Springfield, Franklin, and others. I don't know if you hope to attract major dealers, but some of these folks attend a lot of the shows mentioned above, and others. You'd be surprised how much the attendance at one event can be affected by one far away. Oh, and don't forget secular and religious holidays, including Mother's Day and Father's Day, and especially the ones that "float" like Easter and some of the Jewish high holidays. I've seen poor attendance at events blamed on any number of these factors, and I'm sure others have as well. Good luck, Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 17 18:03:24 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 17 18:02:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <437D366C.1050406@verizon.net> Glenn Wimpee wrote: > And while we're on this subject, what are some recommended coatings? > > And how does one go about their application? Coatings? To do what in particular? Some are hard (epoxies) and some are soft (Butvar-76), and each has the purpose. Do you plan to polish them after the coating? Do you plan to you use them as coasters or expect to put stress on them, or you just want to enhance them for display? Let us know. Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Nov 17 18:33:13 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Nov 17 18:30:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs References: <20051117170202.80029.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002001c5ebda$41a298a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <00a401c5ebdc$f4393710$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <437D3CC2.1257@Tomaszewski.net> Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > Gee....I must be doing something wrong. I just absorb all the oil I can with > newspaper, then wash them with Dawn Dishwashing Soap and let them dry. Am > I missing something here?? > Jeanette One trick to minimize the amount of oil in the slabs is to soak the rocks overnight in water before cutting. The water seeps into the cracks and pores of the rock to prevent penetration of the oil. Kreigh From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Nov 17 18:39:42 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Nov 17 18:37:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs References: <20051117170202.80029.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com><002001c5ebda$41a298a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><00a401c5ebdc$f4393710$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <6.2.5.3.2.20051117171854.026a4658@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <000701c5ebe9$55e36380$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Tim, I sometimes sphere with diamond cups (diamond rods brazed onto galvanized cups, after I have ground off the galvanizing where I braze) without baking or commercial degreaser. By the time I have ground off all the flats off a sphere I am down to new clean surface. I will bake at 150 degrees F for awhile, maybe an hour, before I use Opticon. I only use the Opticon to seal cracks not for surfacing. Using hot soapy water blasting out of a clothes washer does remove oil pretty well and it doesn't require a lot of elbow grease. I would not use oil to cut turquoise. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs > It depends on what you are going to do with them. If you are going to > cab them on a diamond wheel, then removing every last trace of oil is > a very good thing to do. If you are going to cab them on a silicon > carbide unit or polish them on a flat lap with a little soap in the > water (always a good idea) then soaking for an hour or two and > handwashing with dishwashing liquid is probably adequate. If you are > going to sphere a piece with diamond heads, then soaking for days in > commercial degreaser or baking it overnight is almost required, since > you will be coating it with hot stuff anyway in order to get a good > polish, and cyanoacrylate doesn't stick to oily surfaces very well. I > agree that the responses posted so far are towards the over-the-top > end of the spectrum. If I need something to be that oil-free I > handwash it then bake it overnight at 200F. > > At 05:11 PM 11/17/2005, you wrote: > >Gee....I must be doing something wrong. I just absorb all the oil I > >can with newspaper, then wash them with Dawn Dishwashing Soap and > >let them dry. Am I missing something here?? > >Jeanette > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" > > > >>After the kitty litter I put them in a bucket into which the washing machine > >>empties. I leave them in there for a couple weeks. The laundry soap is then > >>reused to clean my slabs. > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Thu Nov 17 19:13:13 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 17 19:13:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs In-Reply-To: <000701c5ebe9$55e36380$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <20051117170202.80029.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002001c5ebda$41a298a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <00a401c5ebdc$f4393710$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <6.2.5.3.2.20051117171854.026a4658@orerockon.com> <000701c5ebe9$55e36380$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051117190615.0293d7f8@orerockon.com> Yes, you bake as well. I take my advice from JC Richardson who has made more spheres than everyone on this list put together x 100. His method is to coat the warm spheres in hot stuff (is that too many hots?) after baking overnight at 200F and before the fine (500 mesh equivalent) grind. It leads to less cracked spheres after he polishes them in the long run - you can't find every fracture in every piece you sphere. It is not a surfacing treatment since the surface gets ground off during the fine grind. It also helps fill small pits that would collect the polishing compound. At 06:39 PM 11/17/2005, you wrote: >Tim, I sometimes sphere with diamond cups (diamond rods brazed onto >galvanized cups, after I have ground off the galvanizing where I braze) >without baking or commercial degreaser. By the time I have ground off all >the flats off a sphere I am down to new clean surface. I will bake at 150 >degrees F for awhile, maybe an hour, before I use Opticon. I only use the >Opticon to seal cracks not for surfacing. Using hot soapy water blasting out >of a clothes washer does remove oil pretty well and it doesn't require a lot >of elbow grease. I would not use oil to cut turquoise. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tim Fisher" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:24 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs > > > > It depends on what you are going to do with them. If you are going to > > cab them on a diamond wheel, then removing every last trace of oil is > > a very good thing to do. If you are going to cab them on a silicon > > carbide unit or polish them on a flat lap with a little soap in the > > water (always a good idea) then soaking for an hour or two and > > handwashing with dishwashing liquid is probably adequate. If you are > > going to sphere a piece with diamond heads, then soaking for days in > > commercial degreaser or baking it overnight is almost required, since > > you will be coating it with hot stuff anyway in order to get a good > > polish, and cyanoacrylate doesn't stick to oily surfaces very well. I > > agree that the responses posted so far are towards the over-the-top > > end of the spectrum. If I need something to be that oil-free I > > handwash it then bake it overnight at 200F. > > > > At 05:11 PM 11/17/2005, you wrote: > > >Gee....I must be doing something wrong. I just absorb all the oil I > > >can with newspaper, then wash them with Dawn Dishwashing Soap and > > >let them dry. Am I missing something here?? > > >Jeanette > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" > > > > > >>After the kitty litter I put them in a bucket into which the washing >machine > > >>empties. I leave them in there for a couple weeks. The laundry soap is >then > > >>reused to clean my slabs. > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Nov 17 19:24:44 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 17 19:24:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs Message-ID: Don, The ones I am working on now I just want to display. The only stress would be human handling. Malachite, tigereye, sodalite in small chunks and slabs. And a few geode faces. I'm sorta new at polishing my own stuff and I want to go as natural as is reasonable and still work to a really nice finish. Thanks! Glenn And while we're on this subject, what are some recommended coatings? And how does one go about their application? Glenn Coatings? To do what in particular? Some are hard (epoxies) and some are soft (Butvar-76), and each has the purpose. Do you plan to polish them after the coating? (Yes) Do you plan to you use them as coasters (no) or expect to put stress on them (no), or you just want to enhance them for display? (Yes)  Let us know. Don ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Create your own custom mailing list called Groups with MSN Hotmail ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Nov 17 21:37:32 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Nov 17 21:35:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs References: <20051117170202.80029.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com><002001c5ebda$41a298a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><00a401c5ebdc$f4393710$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><6.2.5.3.2.20051117171854.026a4658@orerockon.com><000701c5ebe9$55e36380$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <6.2.5.3.2.20051117190615.0293d7f8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <000f01c5ec02$2d2c60e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I Opticon spheres between the 600 grit and polish. I don't always Opticon, only if there are cracks. Heat will cause cracks, so I heat slowly, up to 150 degrees. I follow the Opticon directions and apply at 150 degrees and let the sphere cool down sucking the Opticon into the cracks. I have gotten cracks in cabochons by heating them on dopping pots to help attach them to dopping sticks. Any heating needs to be done slowly. I get a pretty good polish on agates and jaspers using tin oxide with a little bit of Raybrite B. I have gotten nice polishes on malachites and sodalites but I have forgotten what I used. Most likely tin oxide, since that is what I use most of the time. With polishing you can experiment until you get something that works. No two stone are alike. Experiment if you are not happy with your final polish. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs > Yes, you bake as well. I take my advice from JC Richardson who has > made more spheres than everyone on this list put together x 100. His > method is to coat the warm spheres in hot stuff (is that too many > hots?) after baking overnight at 200F and before the fine (500 mesh > equivalent) grind. It leads to less cracked spheres after he polishes > them in the long run - you can't find every fracture in every piece > you sphere. It is not a surfacing treatment since the surface gets > ground off during the fine grind. It also helps fill small pits that > would collect the polishing compound. > > At 06:39 PM 11/17/2005, you wrote: > >Tim, I sometimes sphere with diamond cups (diamond rods brazed onto > >galvanized cups, after I have ground off the galvanizing where I braze) > >without baking or commercial degreaser. By the time I have ground off all > >the flats off a sphere I am down to new clean surface. I will bake at 150 > >degrees F for awhile, maybe an hour, before I use Opticon. I only use the > >Opticon to seal cracks not for surfacing. Using hot soapy water blasting out > >of a clothes washer does remove oil pretty well and it doesn't require a lot > >of elbow grease. I would not use oil to cut turquoise. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tim Fisher" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > >Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:24 PM > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs > > > > > > > It depends on what you are going to do with them. If you are going to > > > cab them on a diamond wheel, then removing every last trace of oil is > > > a very good thing to do. If you are going to cab them on a silicon > > > carbide unit or polish them on a flat lap with a little soap in the > > > water (always a good idea) then soaking for an hour or two and > > > handwashing with dishwashing liquid is probably adequate. If you are > > > going to sphere a piece with diamond heads, then soaking for days in > > > commercial degreaser or baking it overnight is almost required, since > > > you will be coating it with hot stuff anyway in order to get a good > > > polish, and cyanoacrylate doesn't stick to oily surfaces very well. I > > > agree that the responses posted so far are towards the over-the-top > > > end of the spectrum. If I need something to be that oil-free I > > > handwash it then bake it overnight at 200F. > > > > > > At 05:11 PM 11/17/2005, you wrote: > > > >Gee....I must be doing something wrong. I just absorb all the oil I > > > >can with newspaper, then wash them with Dawn Dishwashing Soap and > > > >let them dry. Am I missing something here?? > > > >Jeanette > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" > > > > > > > >>After the kitty litter I put them in a bucket into which the washing > >machine > > > >>empties. I leave them in there for a couple weeks. The laundry soap is > >then > > > >>reused to clean my slabs. > > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From johnjold at comcast.net Thu Nov 17 22:28:39 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Thu Nov 17 22:28:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamond Acres directions Message-ID: There is no real contact although Margaret Hasting's daughter Linda lives at the site. The surest way not to get messed up is to exit the NY Turnpike at Fonda. Go West to the bridge and cross the river. Turn left on Rt 5. Go West to the first road out side of Fonda that goes up the hill. This is Hickory Hill Road. It is not a right turn but angles up the hill. Follow Hickory Hill for several miles until you come to Barker Road. Turn right on Barker. This road curves around and comes to Stone Arabia Road. Turn left on Stone Arabia. The first driveway to the left is the entrance to the mine. The alternate route is to go through Palatine Bridge and take Rt 10 North to Stone Arabia Road and turn East for several miles. Look for Barker Road ( which becomes England Road on the North side of Stone Arabia) Then go back to the mine. The only sign to the mine is a crossed pickax and shovel painted blue near the entrance. But even that was overgrown last summer, thus the Barker Road directions. I really think you are too late for this year for digging. From albalmer at att.net Fri Nov 18 07:15:27 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Nov 18 07:15:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres (was Washing slabs) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051117171854.026a4658@orerockon.com> References: <20051117170202.80029.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002001c5ebda$41a298a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <00a401c5ebdc$f4393710$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <6.2.5.3.2.20051117171854.026a4658@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <437DF00F.8030808@att.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > If you are going to sphere > a piece with diamond heads, then soaking for days in commercial > degreaser or baking it overnight is almost required, since you will be > coating it with hot stuff anyway in order to get a good polish, and > cyanoacrylate doesn't stick to oily surfaces very well. I learn something new every day on this list! Are polished spheres really coated with CA? I had always assumed they were just polished. From tome61 at aol.com Fri Nov 18 08:06:58 2005 From: tome61 at aol.com (tome61@aol.com) Date: Fri Nov 18 08:07:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Benefit for Clement Mineral Museum In-Reply-To: <200511180202.jAI22SGq011875@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200511180202.jAI22SGq011875@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <8C7BA713D266E52-17FC-3F5C@MBLK-M14.sysops.aol.com> Alan, if you are interested in collecting show information (dates and places), check out the Show Schedule on www.rockngem.com Choose from the options on the right side of the screen. This schedule is always pretty helpful for me and lists shows well into the next year. Also, even though I live in New York City, I wouldn't mind participating in the mineral dig that you're putting together to benefit the museum. I've travelled all over the US for mineral collecting and related trips, but I haven't been to the Kentucky area and I think I would enjoy it. I will send you an e-mail off-list to give you more information. Regards, Tom Russell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocks4u at prodigy.net Fri Nov 18 08:05:31 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Fri Nov 18 08:17:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres (was Washing slabs) References: <437DF00F.8030808@att.net> Message-ID: <437DFBCB.000001.03052@WES-MEDION-1918> CA is not a good coating for sealing spheres! It is brittle and it will discolor over time. There are no shortcuts to having a good polish that will not discolor and break out other than Opticon. Opticon was made for sealing fractures and cracks in Gem Stones however, it must be applied correctly (the right mix) with the right amount of heat and the proper time to cure. Once coated and then ground off it is almost invisible except under a black light where it will glow a light blue color in the cracks. It allows for holes to be filled with finely crushed rock mixed in the resin to save an otherwise beautiful sphere. I have made thousands this way and they are a treasure. Cheers! Wes -------Original Message------- From: Al Balmer Date: 11/18/05 07:19:46 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres (was Washing slabs) Tim Fisher wrote: > If you are going to sphere > a piece with diamond heads, then soaking for days in commercial > degreaser or baking it overnight is almost required, since you will be > coating it with hot stuff anyway in order to get a good polish, and > cyanoacrylate doesn't stick to oily surfaces very well. I learn something new every day on this list! Are polished spheres really coated with CA? I had always assumed they were just polished. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Nov 18 08:46:55 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Nov 18 08:44:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs References: <20051117170202.80029.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com><002001c5ebda$41a298a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><00a401c5ebdc$f4393710$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><6.2.5.3.2.20051117171854.026a4658@orerockon.com><000701c5ebe9$55e36380$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><6.2.5.3.2.20051117190615.0293d7f8@orerockon.com> <000f01c5ec02$2d2c60e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000701c5ec5f$af805a80$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I did not mean to imply I polish the Opticon surface on a sphere. After I have used the Opticon and it has cured, I go back to the 600 grit and diamond pads before final polish. I am only interested in filling cracks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:37 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs > I Opticon spheres between the 600 grit and polish. I don't always Opticon, > only if there are cracks. Heat will cause cracks, so I heat slowly, up to > 150 degrees. I follow the Opticon directions and apply at 150 degrees and > let the sphere cool down sucking the Opticon into the cracks. > > I have gotten cracks in cabochons by heating them on dopping pots to help > attach them to dopping sticks. Any heating needs to be done slowly. I get a > pretty good polish on agates and jaspers using tin oxide with a little bit > of Raybrite B. I have gotten nice polishes on malachites and sodalites but I > have forgotten what I used. Most likely tin oxide, since that is what I use > most of the time. With polishing you can experiment until you get something > that works. No two stone are alike. Experiment if you are not happy with > your final polish. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Fisher" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs > > > > Yes, you bake as well. I take my advice from JC Richardson who has > > made more spheres than everyone on this list put together x 100. His > > method is to coat the warm spheres in hot stuff (is that too many > > hots?) after baking overnight at 200F and before the fine (500 mesh > > equivalent) grind. It leads to less cracked spheres after he polishes > > them in the long run - you can't find every fracture in every piece > > you sphere. It is not a surfacing treatment since the surface gets > > ground off during the fine grind. It also helps fill small pits that > > would collect the polishing compound. > > > > At 06:39 PM 11/17/2005, you wrote: > > >Tim, I sometimes sphere with diamond cups (diamond rods brazed onto > > >galvanized cups, after I have ground off the galvanizing where I braze) > > >without baking or commercial degreaser. By the time I have ground off all > > >the flats off a sphere I am down to new clean surface. I will bake at 150 > > >degrees F for awhile, maybe an hour, before I use Opticon. I only use the > > >Opticon to seal cracks not for surfacing. Using hot soapy water blasting > out > > >of a clothes washer does remove oil pretty well and it doesn't require a > lot > > >of elbow grease. I would not use oil to cut turquoise. > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Tim Fisher" > > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > > >Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:24 PM > > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Washing slabs > > > > > > > > > > It depends on what you are going to do with them. If you are going to > > > > cab them on a diamond wheel, then removing every last trace of oil is > > > > a very good thing to do. If you are going to cab them on a silicon > > > > carbide unit or polish them on a flat lap with a little soap in the > > > > water (always a good idea) then soaking for an hour or two and > > > > handwashing with dishwashing liquid is probably adequate. If you are > > > > going to sphere a piece with diamond heads, then soaking for days in > > > > commercial degreaser or baking it overnight is almost required, since > > > > you will be coating it with hot stuff anyway in order to get a good > > > > polish, and cyanoacrylate doesn't stick to oily surfaces very well. I > > > > agree that the responses posted so far are towards the over-the-top > > > > end of the spectrum. If I need something to be that oil-free I > > > > handwash it then bake it overnight at 200F. > > > > > > > > At 05:11 PM 11/17/2005, you wrote: > > > > >Gee....I must be doing something wrong. I just absorb all the oil I > > > > >can with newspaper, then wash them with Dawn Dishwashing Soap and > > > > >let them dry. Am I missing something here?? > > > > >Jeanette > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" > > > > > > > > > >>After the kitty litter I put them in a bucket into which the washing > > >machine > > > > >>empties. I leave them in there for a couple weeks. The laundry soap > is > > >then > > > > >>reused to clean my slabs. > > > > > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Fri Nov 18 09:47:24 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Nov 18 09:48:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres (was Washing slabs) In-Reply-To: <437DFBCB.000001.03052@WES-MEDION-1918> References: <437DF00F.8030808@att.net> <437DFBCB.000001.03052@WES-MEDION-1918> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051118093131.028dc3e0@orerockon.com> Please read what people actually wrote before you respond. I never said that the Richardson's coated their polished spheres with CA. They coat them before the fine grind in order to seal all the cracks and small pits. The fine grind takes away virtually all the CA, leaving it only in the cracks and pits. This protects the sphere from cracking during the polish stage when they tend to heat up quite a bit, and from spalling, which virtually all agates, jaspers, obsidian, glass, etc. will do if dropped hard enough. Only a very few, very tough materials (jade comes to mind) do not need a treatment with CA if you want them to be protected from mishandling by customers. Remember that the Richardson's sell 1000's of spheres every year and they are cutting them for durability and appearance. Opticon is junk, according to JC Richardson, who used to use it before fresh, bulk CA became available. It never really cures, only appears to do so, no matter how it is applied. It adheres poorly to stone, and It shrinks away from surfaces over time as it dries out. It also does not draw into cracks like CA does; it is simply too thick to be of any use for stabilizing and lapidary material except very porous stone like turquoise without using a vacuum chamber. FRESH, quality CA is wonderful stuff; the junk you buy in the hardware store is so old and so cheaply manufactured that it is useless for lapidary applications. Use the thin CP CA (i.e. Paleobond) with a vacuum chamber and you can even stabilize high water content opals like Virgin Valley wood. As far as discoloration goes, I have spheres that I coated with fresh Hot Stuff 10 years ago and I cannot see it in the cracks to this day. If it discolored, the Richardson's would have heard about it. I suspect that the cheaply manufactured CA glues would discolor due to impurities or some such thing. At 08:05 AM 11/18/2005, you wrote: >CA is not a good coating for sealing spheres! It is brittle and it will >discolor over time. There are no shortcuts to having a good polish that will >not discolor and break out other than Opticon. Opticon was made for sealing >fractures and cracks in Gem Stones however, it must be applied correctly >(the right mix) with the right amount of heat and the proper time to cure. >Once coated and then ground off it is almost invisible except under a black >light where it will glow a light blue color in the cracks. It allows for >holes to be filled with finely crushed rock mixed in the resin to save an >otherwise beautiful sphere. I have made thousands this way and they are a >treasure. Cheers! > >Wes > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From dguin at earthlink.net Fri Nov 18 10:11:48 2005 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Fri Nov 18 10:11:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres (was Washing slabs) In-Reply-To: <437DF00F.8030808@att.net> References: <20051117170202.80029.qmail@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002001c5ebda$41a298a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <00a401c5ebdc$f4393710$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <6.2.5.3.2.20051117171854.026a4658@orerockon.com> <437DF00F.8030808@att.net> Message-ID: <437E1964.5000303@earthlink.net> Al Balmer wrote: > Tim Fisher wrote: > > >> If you are going to sphere a piece with diamond heads, then soaking >> for days in commercial degreaser or baking it overnight is almost >> required, since you will be coating it with hot stuff anyway in order >> to get a good polish, and cyanoacrylate doesn't stick to oily >> surfaces very well. > > > I learn something new every day on this list! Are polished spheres > really coated with CA? I had always assumed they were just polished. The only time I use CA on a sphere is if I see a crack developing and want to limit the separation. Even then it is limited to just the crack. Most of the sphere makers I know just polish their spheres without any additives or consolidators. The only real exceptions to this are if the material is very soft (like lepidolite). Even then I usually prefer to leave the sphere with the "soft sheen" that I get with finer grits, than to polish epoxy or acrylic. Peace, dave From rocks4u at prodigy.net Fri Nov 18 10:08:49 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Fri Nov 18 10:20:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres (was Washing slabs) References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051118093131.028dc3e0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <437E18B1.000004.03052@WES-MEDION-1918> There as many opinions in this business as there people doing it. I say whatever works is the way to do it. I know what works for me. Cheers! -------Original Message------- From: Tim Fisher Date: 11/18/05 09:48:55 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres (was Washing slabs) Please read what people actually wrote before you respond. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Nov 18 10:39:42 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Nov 18 10:37:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres (was Washing slabs) References: <437DF00F.8030808@att.net> <437DFBCB.000001.03052@WES-MEDION-1918> <6.2.5.3.2.20051118093131.028dc3e0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <000901c5ec6f$71775c60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I am not in the business. I usually make maybe ten spheres a year at the most. I have used Hot Stuff, but it is rather expensive to use on spheres. Paleobond seems to be more reasonable in cost. I will give it a try. Opticon has worked for me in filling cracks, so I would not call it junk. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres (was Washing slabs) > Please read what people actually wrote before you respond. I never > said that the Richardson's coated their polished spheres with CA. > They coat them before the fine grind in order to seal all the cracks > and small pits. The fine grind takes away virtually all the CA, > leaving it only in the cracks and pits. This protects the sphere from > cracking during the polish stage when they tend to heat up quite a > bit, and from spalling, which virtually all agates, jaspers, > obsidian, glass, etc. will do if dropped hard enough. Only a very > few, very tough materials (jade comes to mind) do not need a > treatment with CA if you want them to be protected from mishandling > by customers. Remember that the Richardson's sell 1000's of spheres > every year and they are cutting them for durability and appearance. > Opticon is junk, according to JC Richardson, who used to use it > before fresh, bulk CA became available. It never really cures, only > appears to do so, no matter how it is applied. It adheres poorly to > stone, and It shrinks away from surfaces over time as it dries out. > It also does not draw into cracks like CA does; it is simply too > thick to be of any use for stabilizing and lapidary material except > very porous stone like turquoise without using a vacuum chamber. > FRESH, quality CA is wonderful stuff; the junk you buy in the > hardware store is so old and so cheaply manufactured that it is > useless for lapidary applications. Use the thin CP CA (i.e. > Paleobond) with a vacuum chamber and you can even stabilize high > water content opals like Virgin Valley wood. As far as discoloration > goes, I have spheres that I coated with fresh Hot Stuff 10 years ago > and I cannot see it in the cracks to this day. If it discolored, the > Richardson's would have heard about it. I suspect that the cheaply > manufactured CA glues would discolor due to impurities or some such thing. > > At 08:05 AM 11/18/2005, you wrote: > >CA is not a good coating for sealing spheres! It is brittle and it will > >discolor over time. There are no shortcuts to having a good polish that will > >not discolor and break out other than Opticon. Opticon was made for sealing > >fractures and cracks in Gem Stones however, it must be applied correctly > >(the right mix) with the right amount of heat and the proper time to cure. > >Once coated and then ground off it is almost invisible except under a black > >light where it will glow a light blue color in the cracks. It allows for > >holes to be filled with finely crushed rock mixed in the resin to save an > >otherwise beautiful sphere. I have made thousands this way and they are a > >treasure. Cheers! > > > >Wes > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Fri Nov 18 13:29:14 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Nov 18 13:29:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres (was Washing slabs) In-Reply-To: <000901c5ec6f$71775c60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <437DF00F.8030808@att.net> <437DFBCB.000001.03052@WES-MEDION-1918> <6.2.5.3.2.20051118093131.028dc3e0@orerockon.com> <000901c5ec6f$71775c60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051118132620.0293e698@orerockon.com> Paleobond is a fine CA for use in lapidary applications. Get the thinnest stuff they offer, and ask what the batch date is. If it's more than a few months old, use it quick. If it's a year old, it's too old. Hot Stuff is cheapest if purchased directly from Richardson's in the pint bottles. They buy it by the gallon and can sell the pints cheaper than I have seen elsewhere. And, you know it is fresh since JC throws away old CA. At 10:39 AM 11/18/2005, you wrote: >I am not in the business. I usually make maybe ten spheres a year at the >most. I have used Hot Stuff, but it is rather expensive to use on spheres. >Paleobond seems to be more reasonable in cost. I will give it a try. Opticon >has worked for me in filling cracks, so I would not call it junk. >---- Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Nov 18 17:17:57 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 18 17:18:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres (was Washing slabs) References: <437DF00F.8030808@att.net> <437DFBCB.000001.03052@WES-MEDION-1918> Message-ID: <002f01c5eca7$1320afd0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> I tried sealing some cracks and fissures in Labradorite using Opticon with NO success. I tried various temps, proportions of mix, etc. and still had cracks. Is this related to Labradorite? or something I didn't do right? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: Opticon was made for sealing fractures and cracks in Gem Stones however, it must be applied correctly (the right mix) with the right amount of heat and the proper time to cure. Once coated and then ground off it is almost invisible except under a black light where it will glow a light blue color in the cracks. It allows for holes to be filled with finely crushed rock mixed in the resin to save an otherwise beautiful sphere. I have made thousands this way and they are a treasure. Cheers! Wes From tim at orerockon.com Fri Nov 18 18:39:57 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Nov 18 18:40:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres (was Washing slabs) In-Reply-To: <002f01c5eca7$1320afd0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <437DF00F.8030808@att.net> <437DFBCB.000001.03052@WES-MEDION-1918> <002f01c5eca7$1320afd0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051118183049.0272fd70@orerockon.com> There could be several things going on. However, as has been pointed out, Opticon is very hard to force or draw into tight fractures. If you don't have access to a vacuum chamber, I would suggest trying a high CPS CA like Paleobond Penetrant. At 05:17 PM 11/18/2005, you wrote: >I tried sealing some cracks and fissures in Labradorite using >Opticon with NO success. I tried various temps, proportions of mix, >etc. and still had cracks. Is this related to Labradorite? or >something I didn't do right? >Jeanette Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 18 21:44:26 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 18 21:38:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Faceting History Message-ID: <437EBA56.C2D@Tomaszewski.net> Hey List, Glenn Klein has recently published a book titled "Faceting History: cutting diamonds and colored stones". I'm about half way thru it, and want to recommend it to the List (I have no connection to Glenn other than as a customer, and member of a list he is on, which is how I found out about the book -- the endorsement is unsolicited). If you want to find out more about Glenn's book, or order it, go to www.glennklein.com. I've already learned more about the history of faceting (and lapidary) from the first half of this book than from any other source in my experience. Glenn has done his research. If you have an interest in Lapidary and Faceting, or know someone who does, I recommend this book as a great Christmas gift. It won't teach you how to Facet (though it comes close), but it will tell you how the Art developed. I have no doubt you will learn new details about cutting stones. Highly recommended. Check it out. Kreigh From rockcurrier at cs.com Fri Nov 18 22:26:57 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Nov 18 22:18:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning slabs from the saw. References: <200511190202.jAJ22Oq1003197@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003401c5ecd2$3e3846d0$6410a8c0@rock5> In the large lapidary factories in Brazil, Diesel fuel is used in the diamond saws for cutting. When the agate or what ever comes out of the saw it is placed in a barrel of water overnight and the next day they wash the slabs, book ends etc with soapy water. There seems to be nothing special about the soap. If you are dying agates it is important to get rid of the oil so that that the die can penetrate the agate evenly. Rock From asgardsgc at earthlink.net Sat Nov 19 11:52:15 2005 From: asgardsgc at earthlink.net (Mark Easterbrook) Date: Sat Nov 19 11:50:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Benefit for Clement Mineral Museum Message-ID: <380-2200511619195215956@earthlink.net> Alan, You might also try www.gemdata.com since they also list upcoming shows through 2006. This is not a comprehensive list, but still a good one to use. Mark > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 11/18/2005 11:06:58 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Benefit for Clement Mineral Museum > > Alan, if you are interested in collecting show information (dates and places), check out the Show Schedule on www.rockngem.com Choose from the options on the right side of the screen. This schedule is always pretty helpful for me and lists shows well into the next year. > > Also, even though I live in New York City, I wouldn't mind participating in the mineral dig that you're putting together to benefit the museum. I've travelled all over the US for mineral collecting and related trips, but I haven't been to the Kentucky area and I think I would enjoy it. > > I will send you an e-mail off-list to give you more information. > > Regards, > Tom Russell > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sat Nov 19 16:08:00 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sat Nov 19 16:08:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] slabs Message-ID: <343e01c5ed66$78557240$6402a8c0@remains> Hi hopefully someone on the list can help me! I just bought a new living room coffeee table -darker walnut colour- and I am looking for some beverage coasters. Essentially, what I am looking for would be (6 about the same size and shape) slabs of a given material, polished on one side, but not on the other. A flat surface is all I need...I don't want anything as elaborate as a counter sunk cup holder on the slab. I will be putting a couple of small cork buffers on the back of the slab, so unpolished is perfectly fine for that side. So long as the top of the slab is pretty, I don't care what the back looks like so long as it is flat. Now, I would like 6 pieces, not necessarily round...a baroque ovalish shape would be great! I would like something like an ocean jasper...somthing brightly multicoloured with some nice patter to it. I would prefer that the slabs all be cut from the same piece of rough so the patterns match up reasonably well, and the sizes and shapes are pretty much the same too. I don't care what the material is...so long as it is something that is brightly coloured and patterned.....somethging that would stand out and be very attractive on a darker walnut coloured table. I am happy to pay a fair wholesale amount for these six pieces, but am not prepared to pay the ridiculous retail net prices that some of these jaspers/chalcedonies/agates are being sold for. I would be a lot happier trading fossil materials or cut gemstones for the pieces. So long as the material is pretty and colourful, and anyonbe that sees it will pee themselves with envy!! :-) I'll be happy!! Anyone have anything that may fit the bill??? Please respond to me offlist, and if you have some pics...please send them along! thank you! Michael --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From info at wisdomofstones.com Sat Nov 19 16:43:48 2005 From: info at wisdomofstones.com (Wisdom of Stones) Date: Sat Nov 19 16:43:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] slabs In-Reply-To: <343e01c5ed66$78557240$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: Hi Michael - I would have emailed you off-list but couldn't find an email address. I'm not sure where you live but if I were you, I'd visit a local flea market where I've seen what I think you're looking for. I am a flea market junkie, but prefer the large permanent standing flea markets as they tend to be more "just above wholesale" price. I've also seen some stone tiles (4" x 4") at many of my local tile stores, and some of my local home improvement centers. There was quite a variety and, they weren't terribly expensive, depending on what you consider to be expensive. I've also found some interesting stone items in eclectic type resale shops and consignment antique malls though the items may not match in size and pattern. jennifer -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Michael Schmidt Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 6:08 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] slabs Hi hopefully someone on the list can help me! I just bought a new living room coffeee table -darker walnut colour- and I am looking for some beverage coasters. Essentially, what I am looking for would be (6 about the same size and shape) slabs of a given material, polished on one side, but not on the other. A flat surface is all I need...I don't want anything as elaborate as a counter sunk cup holder on the slab. I will be putting a couple of small cork buffers on the back of the slab, so unpolished is perfectly fine for that side. So long as the top of the slab is pretty, I don't care what the back looks like so long as it is flat. Now, I would like 6 pieces, not necessarily round...a baroque ovalish shape would be great! I would like something like an ocean jasper...somthing brightly multicoloured with some nice patter to it. I would prefer that the slabs all be cut from the same piece of rough so the patterns match up reasonably well, and the sizes and shapes are pretty much the same too. I don't care what the material is...so long as it is something that is brightly coloured and patterned.....somethging that would stand out and be very attractive on a darker walnut coloured table. I am happy to pay a fair wholesale amount for these six pieces, but am not prepared to pay the ridiculous retail net prices that some of these jaspers/chalcedonies/agates are being sold for. I would be a lot happier trading fossil materials or cut gemstones for the pieces. So long as the material is pretty and colourful, and anyonbe that sees it will pee themselves with envy!! :-) I'll be happy!! Anyone have anything that may fit the bill??? Please respond to me offlist, and if you have some pics...please send them along! thank you! Michael --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sat Nov 19 18:59:53 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sat Nov 19 18:59:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres References: <437DF00F.8030808@att.net><437DFBCB.000001.03052@WES-MEDION-1918><002f01c5eca7$1320afd0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <6.2.5.3.2.20051118183049.0272fd70@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <002301c5ed7e$7aec5ce0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Isn't cyanoacrylic the same thing as "Super Glue"? Where do you get Paleobond? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" > There could be several things going on. However, as has been pointed > out, Opticon is very hard to force or draw into tight fractures. If > you don't have access to a vacuum chamber, I would suggest trying a > high CPS CA like Paleobond Penetrant. > > At 05:17 PM 11/18/2005, you wrote: >>I tried sealing some cracks and fissures in Labradorite using >>Opticon with NO success. I tried various temps, proportions of mix, >>etc. and still had cracks. Is this related to Labradorite? or >>something I didn't do right? >>Jeanette > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 19 19:19:38 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 19 19:11:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] slabs References: Message-ID: <437FE94D.15B8@Tomaszewski.net> You can make a biscuit cutter for rock slabs/tiles out of a tin can, a bolt, and some carbo, and cut circular coasters out of the stone tiles with a power drill or drill press. Cut from the back or the polished surface will be ruined around the edge of the cut as you get it started. More details on my website's lapidary page. Kreigh Wisdom of Stones wrote: > > Hi Michael - > > I would have emailed you off-list but couldn't find an email address. I'm > not sure where you live but if I were you, I'd visit a local flea market > where I've seen what I think you're looking for. I am a flea market junkie, > but prefer the large permanent standing flea markets as they tend to be more > "just above wholesale" price. > > I've also seen some stone tiles (4" x 4") at many of my local tile stores, > and some of my local home improvement centers. There was quite a variety > and, they weren't terribly expensive, depending on what you consider to be > expensive. I've also found some interesting stone items in eclectic type > resale shops and consignment antique malls though the items may not match in > size and pattern. > > jennifer > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Michael > Schmidt > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 6:08 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] slabs > > Hi > > hopefully someone on the list can help me! > > I just bought a new living room coffeee table -darker walnut colour- and I > am looking for some beverage coasters. > > Essentially, what I am looking for would be (6 about the same size and > shape) slabs of a given material, polished on one side, but not on the > other. A flat surface is all I need...I don't want anything as elaborate as > a counter sunk cup holder on the slab. I will be putting a couple of small > cork buffers on the back of the slab, so unpolished is perfectly fine for > that side. So long as the top of the slab is pretty, I don't care what the > back looks like so long as it is flat. > > Now, I would like 6 pieces, not necessarily round...a baroque ovalish shape > would be great! I would like something like an ocean jasper...somthing > brightly multicoloured with some nice patter to it. I would prefer that the > slabs all be cut from the same piece of rough so the patterns match up > reasonably well, and the sizes and shapes are pretty much the same too. > > I don't care what the material is...so long as it is something that is > brightly coloured and patterned.....somethging that would stand out and be > very attractive on a darker walnut coloured table. > > I am happy to pay a fair wholesale amount for these six pieces, but am not > prepared to pay the ridiculous retail net prices that some of these > jaspers/chalcedonies/agates are being sold for. I would be a lot happier > trading fossil materials or cut gemstones for the pieces. > > So long as the material is pretty and colourful, and anyonbe that sees it > will pee themselves with envy!! :-) I'll be happy!! > > Anyone have anything that may fit the bill??? > > Please respond to me offlist, and if you have some pics...please send them > along! > > thank you! > > Michael > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Sat Nov 19 20:15:35 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Nov 19 20:15:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres In-Reply-To: <002301c5ed7e$7aec5ce0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <437DF00F.8030808@att.net> <437DFBCB.000001.03052@WES-MEDION-1918> <002f01c5eca7$1320afd0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <6.2.5.3.2.20051118183049.0272fd70@orerockon.com> <002301c5ed7e$7aec5ce0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051119201432.0286e2e8@orerockon.com> "Superglue" is cheaply manufactured CA. It is not suitable for lapidary applications. You get Paleobond from the manufacturer. Google it. At 06:59 PM 11/19/2005, you wrote: >Isn't cyanoacrylic the same thing as "Super Glue"? >Where do you get Paleobond? >Jeanette >----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" > >>There could be several things going on. However, as has been >>pointed out, Opticon is very hard to force or draw into tight >>fractures. If you don't have access to a vacuum chamber, I would >>suggest trying a high CPS CA like Paleobond Penetrant. >>At 05:17 PM 11/18/2005, you wrote: >>>I tried sealing some cracks and fissures in Labradorite using >>>Opticon with NO success. I tried various temps, proportions of >>>mix, etc. and still had cracks. Is this related to Labradorite? or >>>something I didn't do right? >>>Jeanette Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Sat Nov 19 23:20:43 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Sat Nov 19 23:21:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres/New wood find ! References: <437DF00F.8030808@att.net> <437DFBCB.000001.03052@WES-MEDION-1918><002f01c5eca7$1320afd0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><6.2.5.3.2.20051118183049.0272fd70@orerockon.com><002301c5ed7e$7aec5ce0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <6.2.5.3.2.20051119201432.0286e2e8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <010501c5eda2$ee889320$635fe842@Titans> Hello Tim and Kreigh, I am wondering if you can remember if Richardson's use Hot Stuff or another brand, that young man working the sphere's is truly amazing and my hat is off to him, 20 being done all at the same time and he never miss's a beat on even one of them. By the way...I have picked up chatter on a new up and running rock hound site at www.rockhoundstation1.com theres a thread on there about a new wood find in Oregon, I ran into the guy that found some highly agatized colored wood at least of the high quality the Negro Butte wood was of years ago. Do you know anything about the Area North of Harper Oregon there talking about ? Kreigh, I noticed your one of the members on that site do you know anything about where that wood is located ? The stuff I seen mostly is so clear you can look well into it and see floating very distinct wood patterns in different colors that suddenly appear and then disappear into clear agate again, quite exciting and unusual, I have seen the same thing is the wood from Negro Butte that lies about 12 miles to the South of this new area, but if you can find any of that wood now it sells by the gram.. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres > "Superglue" is cheaply manufactured CA. It is not suitable for lapidary > applications. You get Paleobond from the manufacturer. Google it. > > At 06:59 PM 11/19/2005, you wrote: >>Isn't cyanoacrylic the same thing as "Super Glue"? >>Where do you get Paleobond? >>Jeanette >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" >> >>>There could be several things going on. However, as has been pointed out, >>>Opticon is very hard to force or draw into tight fractures. If you don't >>>have access to a vacuum chamber, I would suggest trying a high CPS CA >>>like Paleobond Penetrant. >>>At 05:17 PM 11/18/2005, you wrote: >>>>I tried sealing some cracks and fissures in Labradorite using Opticon >>>>with NO success. I tried various temps, proportions of mix, etc. and >>>>still had cracks. Is this related to Labradorite? or something I didn't >>>>do right? >>>>Jeanette > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From jsmall47 at earthlink.net Sun Nov 20 06:36:05 2005 From: jsmall47 at earthlink.net (Jim Small) Date: Sun Nov 20 06:35:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] slabs Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20051120084622.024e9680@mail.earthlink.net> Now, I would like 6 pieces, not necessarily round...a baroque ovalish shape would be great! I would like something like an ocean jasper...somthing brightly multicoloured with some nice patter to it. I would prefer that the slabs all be cut from the same piece of rough so the patterns match up reasonably well, and the sizes and shapes are pretty much the same too. I don't care what the material is...so long as it is something that is brightly coloured and patterned.....somethging that would stand out and be very attractive on a darker walnut coloured table. I am happy to pay a fair wholesale amount for these six pieces, but am not prepared to pay the ridiculous retail net prices that some of these jaspers/chalcedonies/agates are being sold for. I would be a lot happier trading fossil materials or cut gemstones for the pieces. So long as the material is pretty and colourful, and anyonbe that sees it will pee themselves with envy!! :-) I'll be happy!! Michael and list: Wholesale means just what it says; bulk priced for selling to retailers. What Michael has spelled out is a pretty specific and specialized request for retail material. While he does not explicitly state it, because of the way in which he has worded his "request" it appears that he expects not only "fair" (low?) wholesale pricing, but also the right of refusal on any (or all) slabs made available to him. I am not unique among the members of this list; there are many of us who make our living in the business of selling rocks (no "day job" to fall back on). Some of us are also lapidaries, and as such we are manufacturers who take raw materials (rocks and minerals) and use them in the production of items which we then sell - either at wholesale or retail or both. I won't attempt to do an business seminar on the economics involved in running a rock-based business, but part of what we must do is have very clear guidelines on what constitutes a wholesale situation: what Michael has spelled out is not a wholesale situation. Michael can certainly request what ever sort of consideration he desires, but he will not receive this sort of "wholesale deal" from any manufacturing lapidary I know. Also I need to say that the prospect of using highly polished slabs for drink coasters is ill-advised. Without having a recessed portion to hold the glass or beverage container, the physics of moisture from condensation and/or spillage and highly polished slabs sets the stage for several different possible accidents; some trivial and some very dangerous. KOR, Jim Small Small Wonders Lapidary --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tblackwood1 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 20 06:53:19 2005 From: tblackwood1 at yahoo.com (Timothy Blackwood) Date: Sun Nov 20 06:53:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question concerning celestite/celestine. : ) Message-ID: <20051120145319.70971.qmail@web54712.mail.yahoo.com> Hi again, A couple of days ago, I acquired a 4-4.5 inch celestite/celestine geode from the Sakoany Mine, in Madagascar. While consisting entirely of celestite/celestine, the cavity is only around 2 inches. Crystals range in size from 1/16th inch to just over one inch, with several very nice crystals extending into the opening. The color is the typical icy blue. I love it! :) Now for my question. Does anyone know the cause of this icy blue color? I seem to recall reading in an older edition of Pough's guide that trace amounts of gold might be responsible. Is this true? Or has other data proven something else. Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance and I'll look forward to hearing from you soon. Bye for now. :) Sincerely, Tim Blackwood Timothy J. Blackwood E-mail: tblackwood1@yahoo.com Phone: (218)328-6272 Home Address: 120 N.W. 5th Street Apt. #101 Cohasset, Minnesota, USA 55721 __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From tim at orerockon.com Sun Nov 20 06:56:31 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Nov 20 06:56:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] slabs In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20051120084622.024e9680@mail.earthlink.net> References: <6.0.1.1.2.20051120084622.024e9680@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051120065056.026f0468@orerockon.com> The people with axes to grind and the inane garbage they post on this list continue to flabbbergast me. This post should have gone to Michael as a private email, if indeed it should have been composed at all. Jim, please control yourself and keep this whining and grousing off the public list from now on. This USED to be a list about rocks, minerals, and collecting, not a list about backstabbing, bitching, and character assassination. If this keeps up I will stop posting and turn into a professional lurker, like no doubt hundreds of people who are now afraid to post anything to the list for fear of getting scolded by the negative nellies. Direct all flames to ME personally, NOT to the LIST. I will be more than happy to conduct a PRIVATE flame war with you. At 06:36 AM 11/20/2005, you wrote: >Now, I would like 6 pieces, not necessarily round...a baroque >ovalish shape would be great! I would like something like an ocean >jasper...somthing brightly multicoloured with some nice patter to >it. I would prefer that the slabs all be cut from the same piece of >rough so the patterns match up reasonably well, and the sizes and >shapes are pretty much the same too. > >I don't care what the material is...so long as it is something that >is brightly coloured and patterned.....somethging that would stand >out and be very attractive on a darker walnut coloured table. > >I am happy to pay a fair wholesale amount for these six pieces, but >am not prepared to pay the ridiculous retail net prices that some of >these jaspers/chalcedonies/agates are being sold for. I would be a >lot happier trading fossil materials or cut gemstones for the pieces. > >So long as the material is pretty and colourful, and anyonbe that >sees it will pee themselves with envy!! :-) I'll be happy!! > > >Michael and list: > Wholesale means just what it says; bulk priced for selling > to retailers. What Michael has spelled out is a pretty specific and > specialized request for retail material. While he does not > explicitly state it, because of the way in which he has worded his > "request" it appears that he expects not only "fair" (low?) > wholesale pricing, but also the right of refusal on any (or all) > slabs made available to him. > I am not unique among the members of this list; there are > many of us who make our living in the business of selling rocks (no > "day job" to fall back on). Some of us are also lapidaries, and as > such we are manufacturers who take raw materials (rocks and > minerals) and use them in the production of items which we then > sell - either at wholesale or retail or both. I won't attempt to do > an business seminar on the economics involved in running a > rock-based business, but part of what we must do is have very clear > guidelines on what constitutes a wholesale situation: what Michael > has spelled out is not a wholesale situation. > Michael can certainly request what ever sort of > consideration he desires, but he will not receive this sort of > "wholesale deal" from any manufacturing lapidary I know. Also I > need to say that the prospect of using highly polished slabs for > drink coasters is ill-advised. Without having a recessed portion to > hold the glass or beverage container, the physics of moisture from > condensation and/or spillage and highly polished slabs sets the > stage for several different possible accidents; some trivial and > some very dangerous. > >KOR, > >Jim Small >Small Wonders Lapidary Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Nov 20 08:38:54 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Nov 20 08:38:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] slabs References: <6.0.1.1.2.20051120084622.024e9680@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <34ce01c5edf0$e5801e80$6402a8c0@remains> Mr. Small the point I was trying to get across is this......I can buy one slab of a given material from someone for $8.00....there are also people for whatever reasons who feel the same slab is worth $50. I am not paying $50 for it. If you want me to buy 50 kilos of material before you consider it wholesale, then so be it....I won't be buying from you. That may be your definition of wholesale, but it isn't everyone's. I know a petrified wood dealer, manufacturer, from Oregon whose prices are 1/2 to 3/4 what everyone else's are...regardless if you spend $15 or $15,000. Wholesale DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN bulk priced and selling to retailers. I can go to any number of wholesalers or manufacturers (sometimes with no proof of who I am and what level I sell at) and buy 1 item, 100 kgs of items, or 10,000 pieces bulk. I can then wholesale the material, or occasionally retail it. Just because you have limits placed on what YOU consider to be wholesale, don't think that everyone else in the business follows your business model. I am also fully aware of the possible dangers of not having a coaster designed with a cup sized recessed portion......but I choose to do it taunt the gods of fluid dynamics and do it anyway, so I will be the one crying the blues when my table gets wrecked because they don't work very well. As I said above, if YOU are not prepared to sell me anything, then fine. I am sure I will find someone who is happy selling me (or trading me) what I want. I do not expect someone to drop everything they are doing, spend hours picking out the perfect rough, carefully cutting and polishing it for me, and then sell it to me for $5.00. I do, however, expect there are people out there who ALREADY have nice slabbed materials on hand...possibly six matching pieces from a larger piece of rough that they would sell for a good price...or maybe trade for a nice little sapphire, or cat's eye tourmaline or whatever that they could make into some jewellery for the wife or girlfriend for Christmas. If someone asked a similar thing of me, of prepped fossil materials I had lying around, I'd do it. But, it seems you have no desire to do this, so that's cool. Why you have to have to go on to say that I am not going to find what I want with any manufacturing lapidary is, to say the least, silly. I know of several at Tucson I could get material from that I would be happy with....I just wanted the material before then. There is one on the net I have found that seems to have the type of thing I am looking for (perhaps you should email him and and instruct him of the folly of his ways, as he has only a $15 minimum order) ...I just thought maybe I would try some of the good people on this list first, as some of them, collectively, have a plethora of wonderful diverse materials from all over the place....and maybe someone out there would like to trade for something, or offer a good deal. If this list fails, I have other avenues. As I said before, I would VERY much appreciate any help I could get from anyone on this list in locating what I am looking for (and there have been a couple of responses already, thank you very much). I would also very much appreciate it if you can't help me find what I want , not to tell me that no one else probably will either, that the mechanics of it are structurally unsound, that I will poison and kill people trying to do what I want to do, that any pointy slab corners could take someone's eye out, that my table will get wrecked...whatever. If I wasn't fully aware of what I was asking, and the possibility of someone on this list being able to help or at least offer some HELPFUL suggestions, I wouldn't have posted the request. Thank you for your opinion, though. And a thank you to the couple of people so far that have responded positively to me, OFFLIST as I had asked. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Small" To: Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 7:36 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] slabs > Now, I would like 6 pieces, not necessarily round...a baroque ovalish > shape would be great! I would like something like an ocean > jasper...somthing brightly multicoloured with some nice patter to it. I > would prefer that the slabs all be cut from the same piece of rough so the > patterns match up reasonably well, and the sizes and shapes are pretty > much the same too. > > I don't care what the material is...so long as it is something that is > brightly coloured and patterned.....somethging that would stand out and be > very attractive on a darker walnut coloured table. > > I am happy to pay a fair wholesale amount for these six pieces, but am not > prepared to pay the ridiculous retail net prices that some of these > jaspers/chalcedonies/agates are being sold for. I would be a lot happier > trading fossil materials or cut gemstones for the pieces. > > So long as the material is pretty and colourful, and anyonbe that sees it > will pee themselves with envy!! :-) I'll be happy!! > > > Michael and list: > Wholesale means just what it says; bulk priced for selling to > retailers. What Michael has spelled out is a pretty specific and > specialized request for retail material. While he does not explicitly > state it, because of the way in which he has worded his "request" it > appears that he expects not only "fair" (low?) wholesale pricing, but also > the right of refusal on any (or all) slabs made available to him. > I am not unique among the members of this list; there are many of > us who make our living in the business of selling rocks (no "day job" to > fall back on). Some of us are also lapidaries, and as such we are > manufacturers who take raw materials (rocks and minerals) and use them in > the production of items which we then sell - either at wholesale or retail > or both. I won't attempt to do an business seminar on the economics > involved in running a rock-based business, but part of what we must do is > have very clear guidelines on what constitutes a wholesale situation: what > Michael has spelled out is not a wholesale situation. > Michael can certainly request what ever sort of consideration he > desires, but he will not receive this sort of "wholesale deal" from any > manufacturing lapidary I know. Also I need to say that the prospect of > using highly polished slabs for drink coasters is ill-advised. Without > having a recessed portion to hold the glass or beverage container, the > physics of moisture from condensation and/or spillage and highly polished > slabs sets the stage for several different possible accidents; some > trivial and some very dangerous. > > KOR, > > Jim Small > Small Wonders Lapidary > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Nov 20 09:21:13 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 20 09:19:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question concerning celestite/celestine. : ) References: <20051120145319.70971.qmail@web54712.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4380B031.4BFF@Tomaszewski.net> Tim, Trace Potassium substituting for Sr. See American Mineralogist http://www.minsocam.org/msa/collectors_corner/arc/celestite.htm Kreigh Timothy Blackwood wrote: > > Hi again, > > A couple of days ago, I acquired a 4-4.5 inch celestite/celestine geode from the Sakoany > Mine, in Madagascar. While consisting entirely of celestite/celestine, the cavity is only around > 2 inches. Crystals range in size from 1/16th inch to just over one inch, with several very nice > crystals extending into the opening. The color is the typical icy blue. I love it! :) Now for > my question. Does anyone know the cause of this icy blue color? I seem to recall reading in an > older edition of Pough's guide that trace amounts of gold might be responsible. Is this true? Or > has other data proven something else. Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated. > Thanks in advance and I'll look forward to hearing from you soon. Bye for now. :) > > Sincerely, > Tim Blackwood From albalmer at att.net Sun Nov 20 11:05:36 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sun Nov 20 11:05:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] slabs In-Reply-To: <34ce01c5edf0$e5801e80$6402a8c0@remains> References: <6.0.1.1.2.20051120084622.024e9680@mail.earthlink.net> <34ce01c5edf0$e5801e80$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <4380C900.5030006@att.net> Michael Schmidt wrote: > If I wasn't fully > aware of what I was asking, and the possibility of someone on this list > being able to help or at least offer some HELPFUL suggestions, I > wouldn't have posted the request. > That may well be, but in general, the list members have no way of knowing your level of knowledge and expertise. What's more, this is a list open to everyone, and you can be assured that there are lurkers who do *not* know everything about everything, and good replies to the list keep that in mind. If you want private answers, write private emails. From albalmer at att.net Sun Nov 20 11:19:18 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sun Nov 20 11:19:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing spheres/New wood find ! In-Reply-To: <010501c5eda2$ee889320$635fe842@Titans> References: <437DF00F.8030808@att.net> <437DFBCB.000001.03052@WES-MEDION-1918><002f01c5eca7$1320afd0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><6.2.5.3.2.20051118183049.0272fd70@orerockon.com><002301c5ed7e$7aec5ce0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <6.2.5.3.2.20051119201432.0286e2e8@orerockon.com> <010501c5eda2$ee889320$635fe842@Titans> Message-ID: <4380CC36.1080506@att.net> Wayne Rasmussen wrote: > By the way...I have picked up chatter on a new up and running rock > hound site at www.rockhoundstation1.com theres a thread on > there about a new wood find in Oregon, I'm a little puzzled. Where is that thread? I've been browsing the site, and so far (I realize it's new) there isn't actually much there about rockhounding. I did a search for "oregon", and the only thread found is from Shorty, a miner who has a book about Oregon mines. From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Nov 20 11:38:22 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Nov 20 11:37:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] slabs References: <6.0.1.1.2.20051120084622.024e9680@mail.earthlink.net> <34ce01c5edf0$e5801e80$6402a8c0@remains> <4380C900.5030006@att.net> Message-ID: <001101c5ee09$f7bb22c0$6402a8c0@remains> give me a break....I asked for private emails because I really thought that maybe I shouldn't bother everyone on the list with responses to a personal request. If everyone on this list is very much interested in the responses that I may or may not get in my quest for these slabs, then by all means...post on list. If you people wish to discuss the safety issues of what I want to do, or discuss the logistics of the wholesale business- fine- change the subject header and don't address the mail to me. I wrote to the entire list because I do not know everyone on this list, and what they may have in their backyard or what they may do for a living or as a small income-augmenting business or hobby. If I specifically knew that certain people would have what I was looking for, I woud have emailed them offlist. Just like I email Gene Hartstein offlist when I am looking for certain fossil materials, and I don't send a message to everyone on the list.. I guess in the end it really is my fault for assuming a question like mine could just be politely answered with a simple yes or no, I have it or I don't have it, comment...without it turning into a peripheral discussion on the saftey issues and pricing structure of such a request. This list really is becoming ridiculous....it is just so much easier to pick apart a simple request and distort it to the point of stupidity, than to just take it at face value and respond accordingly. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Balmer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] slabs > Michael Schmidt wrote: >> If I wasn't fully >> aware of what I was asking, and the possibility of someone on this list >> being able to help or at least offer some HELPFUL suggestions, I wouldn't >> have posted the request. >> > That may well be, but in general, the list members have no way of knowing > your level of knowledge and expertise. What's more, this is a list open to > everyone, and you can be assured that there are lurkers who do *not* know > everything about everything, and good replies to the list keep that in > mind. If you want private answers, write private emails. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 20 12:48:47 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sun Nov 20 12:48:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question concerning celestite/celestine. : ) References: <20051120145319.70971.qmail@web54712.mail.yahoo.com> <4380B031.4BFF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000901c5ee13$ce9d1ec0$78f1edc1@mpc1> > Trace Potassium substituting for Sr. See American Mineralogist > > http://www.minsocam.org/msa/collectors_corner/arc/celestite.htm > > Kreigh Thanks for that Kreigh - I'd quite forgotten what a good source the Am Min Soc Website is! Just downloaded a bunch of useful stuff from their back issues. Mick From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Nov 21 08:04:23 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Nov 21 08:04:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mobile Alabama Show announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Mobile Rock and Gem Show will be held at the Fairgrounds in Mobile, Alabama on Friday 2-7PM, Saturday 10AM - 7PM, and Sunday 11AM-5PM, Nov 25, 26 & 27. Thats this weekend after Thanksging Day. The fairgrounds are at the intersection of Zeigler Blvd and Cody Rd. We have a full slate of dealers and exhibits for our 11th annual show. There is even going to be a sluice. Demonstrations of cabbing and faceting are planned. Admission is $3.00 for adults. The show is indoors, and RV sites may still be available at the fairgrounds. Katrina hurt many in nearby areas, but this show is definitely on. And it may be one of few on the Gulf Coast this fall. Ya'll come!!! Glenn Wimpee Bring a copy of this for $1.00 off admission! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ 3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From leeper at molalla.net Mon Nov 21 19:36:40 2005 From: leeper at molalla.net (leeper) Date: Mon Nov 21 19:37:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding around Reno, NV area References: <200511220202.jAM22Gpg003498@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <12c101c5ef15$f385a1a0$0b01a8c0@default> Are there any opportunites for interesting rockhounding within 100 miles of Reno? Any specifics? From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Nov 21 20:38:25 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Nov 21 20:35:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grand Rapids Gypsum Mines Make The News Message-ID: <43829FF4.78E5@Tomaszewski.net> Grand Rapids and suburbs are rediscovering their gypsum mining past and it made the 11 pm news tonight. You can find the story at http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4149378 The video available with the story has a lot more detail than was in the website text, including a trip down into one of the local mines. I thought some of you might be interested. Kreigh From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Tue Nov 22 05:35:19 2005 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Tue Nov 22 05:35:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Industrial Minerals Forum Message-ID: <43831E97.50509@ncmail.net> May 07-13 42nd Forum on the Geology of Industrial Minerals, Crown Plaza Resort, Asheville, North Carolina, USA , by the North Carolina Geological Survey and others. (Jeffrey C. Reid, North Carolina Geological Survey, 1612 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-1612, Phone: 919.733.2423 x403 FAX: 919.733.0900 EMail: jeff.reid@ncmail.net Web: http://www.geology.enr.state.nc.us/NCIndustrialMineralsForum/index.htm The Forum is an international meeting. Topics for the forum will include most aspects of industrial minerals. The Forum consists of technical sessions including field trips to industrial mineral mines and processing plants. Forum participation is open to professionals, vendors, students, government officials (state, local and federal), and the public. Asheville is an industrial minerals center -- and a mountain vacation destination. North Carolina is an industrial minerals storehouse with significant production of feldspar, high-purity quartz, mica, phosphate, clay (bricks), glass sand, dimension stone, peat, olivine, gemstones, silica and has significant heavy mineral reserves (ilmenite, rutile, zircon). Papers (oral presentation) and posters are solicited for a wide range of topics (see Forum web site for proposed themes) and author guidelines. Ten field trips are planned (seven technical and three guest trips). The three-day, "Mountains to the Sea" field trip traverses the entire state. The Robert L. Bates Memorial Scholarship is available to fund a student to attend the Forum. The application form is available on the Forum web site. From agate at cox.net Tue Nov 22 10:30:21 2005 From: agate at cox.net (agate@cox.net) Date: Tue Nov 22 10:30:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grand Rapids Gypsum Mines Make The News Message-ID: <20051122183000.WSBA20875.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]> > > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > Subject: [Rockhounds] Grand Rapids Gypsum Mines Make The News > > Grand Rapids and suburbs are rediscovering their gypsum mining past and > it made the 11 pm news tonight. You can find the story at > > > Kreigh Kreigh:I lived in Grand and East Grand Rapids during the 1930s,40s, and 50s. It was my understanding that the Gypsum mines extended under Lake Michigan. If a collapse were to occur there, the results would be very dramatic. By the way; I could not locate any of the 4 houses I lived in. Thanks for the information. From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Nov 22 14:50:37 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Tue Nov 22 14:48:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding around Reno, NV area References: <200511220202.jAM22Gpg003498@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <12c101c5ef15$f385a1a0$0b01a8c0@default> Message-ID: <000f01c5efb7$287a8960$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> There are many sites within 100 miles of Reno. Virgin Valley, the Black Rock Desert, Fallon, Petersen Peak, Crystal Peak etc. Many are included in "Gem Trails of Nevada" by Mitchel. There is also an active club in Reno that goes on field trips. By the way, your first name is not Troy is it? ----- Original Message ----- From: "leeper" To: Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 7:36 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding around Reno, NV area > Are there any opportunites for interesting rockhounding within 100 miles of > Reno? > > Any specifics? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From llbullbull at hotmail.com Tue Nov 22 15:31:36 2005 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Tue Nov 22 15:31:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grand Rapids Gypsum Mines Make The News In-Reply-To: <20051122183000.WSBA20875.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]> Message-ID: Kreigh: I grew up right outside of Muskegon, MI. I doubt that the mines extended some fifty plus miles from Grand Rapids to Lake Michigan. That would really be something. Take care, Larry Bull >From: >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and >gemcollectors" , >"Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and >gemcollectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Grand Rapids Gypsum Mines Make The News >Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 13:30:21 -0500 > > > > > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Grand Rapids Gypsum Mines Make The News > > > > Grand Rapids and suburbs are rediscovering their gypsum mining past and > > it made the 11 pm news tonight. You can find the story at > > > > > > Kreigh > > >Kreigh:I lived in Grand and East Grand Rapids during the 1930s,40s, and >50s. > >It was my understanding that the Gypsum mines extended under Lake Michigan. > If a collapse were to occur there, the results would be very dramatic. > >By the way; I could not locate any of the 4 houses I lived in. > >Thanks for the information. > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 22 17:19:18 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 22 17:13:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grand Rapids Gypsum Mines Make The News References: <20051122183000.WSBA20875.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]> Message-ID: <4383C21B.E80@Tomaszewski.net> Neither the gypsum beds nor the mines extend under Lake Michigan. The mines do go under the Grand River. Kreigh agate@cox.net wrote: > > > > > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Grand Rapids Gypsum Mines Make The News > > > > Grand Rapids and suburbs are rediscovering their gypsum mining past and > > it made the 11 pm news tonight. You can find the story at > > > > > > Kreigh > > Kreigh:I lived in Grand and East Grand Rapids during the 1930s,40s, and 50s. > > It was my understanding that the Gypsum mines extended under Lake Michigan. If a collapse were to occur there, the results would be very dramatic. > > By the way; I could not locate any of the 4 houses I lived in. > > Thanks for the information. > From jabac at hal-pc.org Wed Nov 23 08:05:04 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Wed Nov 23 08:02:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]Fault lines in Houston area In-Reply-To: <111720051634.6929.437CB0FF0005450400001B11216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <111720051634.6929.437CB0FF0005450400001B11216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <43849330.1000300@hal-pc.org> pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >Dear (Rachel), > >The USGS has done a number of studies over the years on fault lines in the Houston area. These are small faults of ground subsidence due to pumping of oil and water from the subsurface, not "earthquake" faults due to tectonic activity; so in general, their movement is by slow, gradual subsidence, not earthquakes, so I would presume, not much of a concern unless you have a building sitting right on top of one. I haven't had any time to search the USGS website to find any online or otherwise, reports that can show you the location of all these faults, but if you are still interested, I could try to help you find this. > >(living in Denver, I, of course, have no idea where "the galleria" is in Houston) And yes, Earl Verbeek, on the Rockhounds list, did indeed work on this topic and prepared some of those reports, back when he worked for the USGS, way back in the 80s I think. > >Pete Modreski >-------------- Original message from "Gibaut, Russel P" : -------------- > > > > >>Jeanette, I was cruising the web for fault lines in the galleria area in >>Houston. Do you have or know anyone who has this information? Thanks, >>Rachel >> >> >> Check out the Texas Bureau of Economic Geology, presently headquartered at the University of Texas, Austin. http://www.beg.utexas.edu Under "Publications" are listings for the Gulf Coast Association of Geological Societies, including Houston. There are at least two monographs relating to subsidence and faulting. There are many more on general geology, though most concentrate on oil and gas, to be sure. It may not be widely appreciated but some of the best Miocene and Eocene fossil areas of the continent are around the Gulf Coast Rim. The Creataceous cuts off roughly 100 miles inland and from there to the coast lie the Cenozoic deposits, with everything from sharks' teeth to camels and early horses, and lots of petrified wood. john From agate at cox.net Wed Nov 23 11:32:53 2005 From: agate at cox.net (agate@cox.net) Date: Wed Nov 23 11:33:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grand Rapids Gypsum Mines Make The News Message-ID: <20051123193207.XVKH17838.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]> > > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > Date: 2005/11/22 Tue PM 08:19:18 EST > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Grand Rapids Gypsum Mines Make The News > > Neither the gypsum beds nor the mines extend under Lake Michigan. The > mines do go under the Grand River. > > Kreigh > > Kreigh: I'm not sure where I got this understanding. It may have been during a Boy Scout tour of the mine (late 1930s or early 40s) or when it was closed down and began being used for storage. You maybe right. It is some distance to the big lake; but not 50 miles. From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 14:33:17 2005 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Nov 23 14:33:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks Giving Message-ID: I just returned from a week of working in Arizona where I was able to stay an extra day to do some collecting. I met up with Bill Gardner (maker of the "Way Too Cool" fluorescent lights and co-operator of the Purple Passion claim) and went with him on an FMS-sponsored trip to the Midnight Owl Mine in Yavapai Co., AZ for eucryptite, followed by a quick stop at the Monarch Mine for some speed-collecting of malachite sprays as the sun was setting, and finally onto the Purple Passion Mine for some nighttime collecting of 4-color fluorescent material and a dazzling nighttime display of color as Bill used one of his 95 watt display lights to light up the dumps. Truly an awe inspiring sight. This trip has reminded me once again how fortunate I am to have become acquainted with those of you who share my interests in things mineralogical and geological. At our best we are a friendly, generous collection of unique individuals who happen to share a common interest and really enjoy sharing our experiences and knowledge. As I sit at the Thanksgiving table tomorrow, I will give thanks for many things but one of them will be the existence of this email list, the folks who have volunteered their time to manage it, and each of you who enrich it with your willingness to share your knowledge and provide encouragement and friendship to others with a similar interest. Happy Thanksgiving! Nate Martin Lexington, MA From llbullbull at hotmail.com Wed Nov 23 14:37:16 2005 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Wed Nov 23 14:37:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks Giving In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I second your comments and very well put Nate. Happy Thanksgiving Larry Bull >From: Nathan Martin >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: Rockhounds Email List >Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks Giving >Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:33:17 -0500 > >I just returned from a week of working in Arizona where I was able to >stay an extra day to do some collecting. I met up with Bill Gardner >(maker of the "Way Too Cool" fluorescent lights and co-operator of the >Purple Passion claim) and went with him on an FMS-sponsored trip to >the Midnight Owl Mine in Yavapai Co., AZ for eucryptite, followed by a >quick stop at the Monarch Mine for some speed-collecting of malachite >sprays as the sun was setting, and finally onto the Purple Passion >Mine for some nighttime collecting of 4-color fluorescent material and >a dazzling nighttime display of color as Bill used one of his 95 watt >display lights to light up the dumps. Truly an awe inspiring sight. > >This trip has reminded me once again how fortunate I am to have become >acquainted with those of you who share my interests in things >mineralogical and geological. At our best we are a friendly, generous >collection of unique individuals who happen to share a common interest >and really enjoy sharing our experiences and knowledge. > >As I sit at the Thanksgiving table tomorrow, I will give thanks for >many things but one of them will be the existence of this email list, >the folks who have volunteered their time to manage it, and each of >you who enrich it with your willingness to share your knowledge and >provide encouragement and friendship to others with a similar >interest. > >Happy Thanksgiving! > >Nate Martin >Lexington, MA > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From jr50wv at yahoo.com Wed Nov 23 15:51:08 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Wed Nov 23 15:51:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Field Trip" to the Carnegie Museum Gem and Mineral Show in Pittsburgh Message-ID: <20051123235109.48216.qmail@web34603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everybody: Now that it is seriously winter, this puts a serious crimp in my collecting activity. By November I'm starting to suffer withdrawal pain from the lack of new rocks to admire, clean, trim, and store. My solution is to attend the Carnegie Museum of Natural History's annual Gem and Mineral Show in Pittsburgh, PA, which was this past weekend. They start with an opening night ball for contributors and vendors. Really, anyone with $150 can go, and it's probably a nice party/dinner and then the attendees get first dibs on all the vendors' stock...so the best stuff might go early! I'm sure most dealers have enough stuff under the counter to refill for Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Needless to say, it's too rich for me! I first hooked up with Mike Szalay of "Mike's Minerals" in the Youngstown OH area - he and I had emailed about small and inexpensive Kunzite specimens. I got to meet his Dad, Brownie, who seemed just as interested in meeting folks and the minerals as Mike was. I got a little Kunzite TN for $20, I plan to give it to a co-worker who, it turns out, is distantly related to George Kunz! I also spent quite a bit of time with the Superb Minerals folks from India, who had fabulous cavansite and pentagonite and zeolites from the deccan traps...I didn't buy anything Saturday afternoon, because that night there was a fund-raising auction of de-accessioned minerals, and a lot of them were evidently donated by the Superb Minerals folks. I visited with Demitri of the Fersman Mineralogical Museum, who had the standard wonderful little rocks from the former Soviet Union, but managed to hold off buying anything prior to the auction. Did I mention the auction? Every year on Saturday night there's this auction. The first year I attended (5 or 6 years ago) there were a ton of great rocks for sale, and the bidding was ferocious, as multiple collectors or dealers wanted the same rock. There were aquamarines on matrix the size of juice cans, and Las Vigas amethyst (that two amethyst collectors both wanted, bad) that went for thousands of dollars!! This year there were a number of nice fluorites I was interested in, and a bunch of nice Indian specimens...with reserve minimums. The Auction house does a nice job with digital pix of each rock, so you can see exactly what you're bidding on. I spent (WAY !!) too much money, but I did get Christmas taken care of. Many of the best Indian specimens didn't reach their reserve, but I was able to get the pentagonite I had my eye on, a nice cavansite, a pretty (and cheap) pyrite nodule, and a couple of nice fluorites. There was an adamite plate that was 26 cm across!! That went first. It was so big that made it special. Some famous guy once said quantity has a quality all its own, I think it was a general talking about armies, but I'm not sure! The auction wound up about 10 pm; it took about 3 hours to run through 106 lots of minerals. There was a little cash bar, so when there was a pause in the action we could go out and have a quick one (Makers Mark for me!) and go back at the auction business. The next day, I had a little budget left, and bought a nice apophyllite with stilbite. It has some powdery laumontite I'll have to clean up, but it has these big square clear green and yellow glassy crystals on it. I also got some core drill copper ore specimens from up in Michigan, the first time I've found anything in the copper line that interested me. I got several fossils from the Fersman Mineralogical Museum, these were clams filled with either rhodocrosite or vivianite, two of my favorite minerals, and I really love the combination of fossils filled with mineral crystals (the rhodo is actually not crystallized, darn it!). Oh, yeh, I got a little TN from Mt Mica, ME where new mining has revealed a ton of wonderful tourmaline and associated pegmatite minerals! We collected at Mt Mica, years ago on a real field trip to Poland Mining Camp. Gary finally struck it rich, after many years of barely making back expenses! All the material is being handled by Leonard Hines, so I spent a little time at their booth. They had a tourmaline the size of a bowling ball for only $9K !! I also got a necklace for Martha, my wife, that was solid silver squash blossom style, with a bunch of really nice blue turquoise cabochons...that blew the budget totally, but, as I said, took care of my Christmas shopping. By about 3 Sunday afternoon we headed back south to God's country, in West Virginia...after stopping for gas and a sandwich, it was nearly 10 pm getting home. There were a lot of dead deer in and by the road, hunting season has started, so you all be careful out there! KoR! Oh yes, here's some links: http://www.carnegiemuseums.org/cmnh/minerals/gemshow/ and for the auction: http://www.argentumauctioneers.com/catalogue/ check it out, see you there next year! JR in WV --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Nov 23 16:55:39 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Nov 23 16:55:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding around Reno, NV area In-Reply-To: <12c101c5ef15$f385a1a0$0b01a8c0@default> References: <200511220202.jAM22Gpg003498@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <12c101c5ef15$f385a1a0$0b01a8c0@default> Message-ID: Wonderstone Mountain is outside of Fallon. You can't fail if you go there but I'm not sure how the roads are this time of year. You can get there using the Gem Trails directions. Grant On 11/21/05, leeper wrote: > Are there any opportunites for interesting rockhounding within 100 miles of > Reno? > > Any specifics? > > From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Wed Nov 23 16:56:55 2005 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 23 16:57:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks Giving Message-ID: <276.420f62.30b669d7@aol.com> Happy Thanksgiving to all the American members on the list who will be celebrating today! I hope you have a wonderful day whatever you do! Jackie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Wed Nov 23 17:36:10 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Nov 23 17:37:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks Giving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051123151622.02462858@incoming.verizon.net> At 12:33 PM 11/23/2005, Nate Martin wrote: > I met up with Bill Gardner >(maker of the "Way Too Cool" fluorescent lights and co-operator of the >Purple Passion claim) Huge coincidence: In the mail today, just before I read your post, arrived the Way Too Cool 3-way fluorescent lamp Bill and I ordered as a Christmas present to each other, with William Gardner's return address on the box. > finally onto the Purple Passion >Mine for some nighttime collecting of 4-color fluorescent material and >a dazzling nighttime display of color as Bill used one of his 95 watt >display lights to light up the dumps. Truly an awe inspiring sight. We have some of the Purple Passion material, and it is truly impressive, especially if you can use both SW and LW as the fluorite in it is brighter under LW. We've never been to that mine, but as a child I collected at Franklin at night, and that was a tremendous and unforgettable adventure. Imagine clambering over the dumps as an eight-year-old, squealing with delight at the brilliant red and green glowing everywhere! Nowadays there would probably be too much danger of insurance suits for children to be allowed there at night. > As I sit at the Thanksgiving table tomorrow, I will give thanks for >many things but one of them will be the existence of this email list, >the folks who have volunteered their time to manage it, and each of >you who enrich it with your willingness to share your knowledge and >provide encouragement and friendship to others with a similar >interest. Thank YOU, Nate, for your thoughts, and especially for remembering your hard-working, long-suffering, unpaid Admin Team! ;) >Happy Thanksgiving! Indeed, Happy Thanksgiving to all, and the very best wishes for the Holiday Season. Aloha, Kitty From buff1 at ptd.net Thu Nov 24 06:36:07 2005 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Thu Nov 24 06:36:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks Giving In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051123151622.02462858@incoming.verizon.net> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20051123151622.02462858@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <4385CFD7.3010808@ptd.net> Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > > We have some of the Purple Passion material, and it is truly > impressive, especially if you can use both SW and LW as the fluorite > in it is brighter under LW. We've never been to that mine, but as a > child I collected at Franklin at night, and that was a tremendous and > unforgettable adventure. Imagine clambering over the dumps as an > eight-year-old, squealing with delight at the brilliant red and green > glowing everywhere! Nowadays there would probably be too much danger > of insurance suits for children to be allowed there at night. > > Quick note to inform that as a member of Sterling Hill mine in Ogdensburg N.J. with similar material and just down the road from Franklin, members are offered a night collecting experience, and there have been some very well behaved children on that experience.... I dont think the Hauk's have ANY idea what a WONDERFUL thing they have done there... and speaking of Thanksgiving...... thanks for silicon and all its adhesions/bonds to oxygen, and lets not forget calcium and phosphourous and well you know were I am heading with this... From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Nov 24 06:51:42 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Nov 24 06:53:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks Giving In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4385D37E.3000004@tenforward.com> Hi Nathan, Thank you for one of the finest emails this list has seen! All the very best to you and everyone else! Take care, John Nathan Martin wrote: >I just returned from a week of working in Arizona where I was able to >stay an extra day to do some collecting. I met up with Bill Gardner >(maker of the "Way Too Cool" fluorescent lights and co-operator of the >Purple Passion claim) and went with him on an FMS-sponsored trip to >the Midnight Owl Mine in Yavapai Co., AZ for eucryptite, followed by a >quick stop at the Monarch Mine for some speed-collecting of malachite >sprays as the sun was setting, and finally onto the Purple Passion >Mine for some nighttime collecting of 4-color fluorescent material and >a dazzling nighttime display of color as Bill used one of his 95 watt >display lights to light up the dumps. Truly an awe inspiring sight. > >This trip has reminded me once again how fortunate I am to have become >acquainted with those of you who share my interests in things >mineralogical and geological. At our best we are a friendly, generous >collection of unique individuals who happen to share a common interest >and really enjoy sharing our experiences and knowledge. > >As I sit at the Thanksgiving table tomorrow, I will give thanks for >many things but one of them will be the existence of this email list, >the folks who have volunteered their time to manage it, and each of >you who enrich it with your willingness to share your knowledge and >provide encouragement and friendship to others with a similar >interest. > >Happy Thanksgiving! > >Nate Martin >Lexington, MA > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Nov 24 06:57:57 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Nov 24 07:00:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Field Trip" to the Carnegie Museum Gem and Mineral Show in Pittsburgh In-Reply-To: <20051123235109.48216.qmail@web34603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051123235109.48216.qmail@web34603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4385D4F5.8040707@tenforward.com> Hi J.R., Thank you for your Carnegie show report. Gloria and I were invited to attend as supporters of the museum but were unfortunately unable to go. We were honored this year to supply the museum with one of our Rat's Nest heulandite specimens which has been put out for full time display. What a double whammy good time this would have been for us, a chance to see our specimen again and to rub elbows with our extended mineral appreciating family. I'm glad you were able to attend and as I mentioned, I'm very thankful for your efforts in writing a report of your good time. Thanks again and all the very best. See ya, John J. R. Hodel wrote: > Hi everybody: > > Now that it is seriously winter, this puts a serious crimp in my collecting activity. By November I'm starting to suffer withdrawal pain from the lack of new rocks to admire, clean, trim, and store. My solution is to attend the Carnegie Museum of Natural History's annual Gem and Mineral Show in Pittsburgh, PA, which was this past weekend. > > They start with an opening night ball for contributors and vendors. Really, anyone with $150 can go, and it's probably a nice party/dinner and then the attendees get first dibs on all the vendors' stock...so the best stuff might go early! I'm sure most dealers have enough stuff under the counter to refill for Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Needless to say, it's too rich for me! > > I first hooked up with Mike Szalay of "Mike's Minerals" in the Youngstown OH area - he and I had emailed about small and inexpensive Kunzite specimens. I got to meet his Dad, Brownie, who seemed just as interested in meeting folks and the minerals as Mike was. I got a little Kunzite TN for $20, I plan to give it to a co-worker who, it turns out, is distantly related to George Kunz! > > I also spent quite a bit of time with the Superb Minerals folks from India, who had fabulous cavansite and pentagonite and zeolites from the deccan traps...I didn't buy anything Saturday afternoon, because that night there was a fund-raising auction of de-accessioned minerals, and a lot of them were evidently donated by the Superb Minerals folks. > > I visited with Demitri of the Fersman Mineralogical Museum, who had the standard wonderful little rocks from the former Soviet Union, but managed to hold off buying anything prior to the auction. > > Did I mention the auction? Every year on Saturday night there's this auction. The first year I attended (5 or 6 years ago) there were a ton of great rocks for sale, and the bidding was ferocious, as multiple collectors or dealers wanted the same rock. There were aquamarines on matrix the size of juice cans, and Las Vigas amethyst (that two amethyst collectors both wanted, bad) that went for thousands of dollars!! > > This year there were a number of nice fluorites I was interested in, and a bunch of nice Indian specimens...with reserve minimums. The Auction house does a nice job with digital pix of each rock, so you can see exactly what you're bidding on. I spent (WAY !!) too much money, but I did get Christmas taken care of. Many of the best Indian specimens didn't reach their reserve, but I was able to get the pentagonite I had my eye on, a nice cavansite, a pretty (and cheap) pyrite nodule, and a couple of nice fluorites. > > There was an adamite plate that was 26 cm across!! That went first. It was so big that made it special. Some famous guy once said quantity has a quality all its own, I think it was a general talking about armies, but I'm not sure! > > The auction wound up about 10 pm; it took about 3 hours to run through 106 lots of minerals. There was a little cash bar, so when there was a pause in the action we could go out and have a quick one (Makers Mark for me!) and go back at the auction business. > > The next day, I had a little budget left, and bought a nice apophyllite with stilbite. It has some powdery laumontite I'll have to clean up, but it has these big square clear green and yellow glassy crystals on it. > > I also got some core drill copper ore specimens from up in Michigan, the first time I've found anything in the copper line that interested me. I got several fossils from the Fersman Mineralogical Museum, these were clams filled with either rhodocrosite or vivianite, two of my favorite minerals, and I really love the combination of fossils filled with mineral crystals (the rhodo is actually not crystallized, darn it!). > > Oh, yeh, I got a little TN from Mt Mica, ME where new mining has revealed a ton of wonderful tourmaline and associated pegmatite minerals! We collected at Mt Mica, years ago on a real field trip to Poland Mining Camp. Gary finally struck it rich, after many years of barely making back expenses! All the material is being handled by Leonard Hines, so I spent a little time at their booth. They had a tourmaline the size of a bowling ball for only $9K !! > > I also got a necklace for Martha, my wife, that was solid silver squash blossom style, with a bunch of really nice blue turquoise cabochons...that blew the budget totally, but, as I said, took care of my Christmas shopping. > > By about 3 Sunday afternoon we headed back south to God's country, in West Virginia...after stopping for gas and a sandwich, it was nearly 10 pm getting home. > > There were a lot of dead deer in and by the road, hunting season has started, so you all be careful out there! > > KoR! > > Oh yes, here's some links: > > > http://www.carnegiemuseums.org/cmnh/minerals/gemshow/ > > and for the auction: > > http://www.argentumauctioneers.com/catalogue/ > > check it out, see you there next year! > > JR in WV > > > >--------------------------------- > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Nov 24 11:33:15 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 24 11:33:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Field Trip" to the Carnegie Museum Gem and MineralShow in Pittsburgh In-Reply-To: <20051123235109.48216.qmail@web34603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great show trip report! Thanks JR! Glenn From: "J. R. Hodel" <jr50wv@yahoo.com> Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] "Field Trip" to the Carnegie Museum Gem and MineralShow in Pittsburgh ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From volgems at icx.net Wed Nov 23 17:13:03 2005 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Thu Nov 24 11:33:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Columbia, SC show this weekend Message-ID: <925526.1132794783799.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Greetings! I would like to remind members of the list about the Columbia Gem & Mineral Society's 38th Annual Gem, Mineral, and Jewelry Show in Columbia, South Carolina. As usual, my booth is hard to miss as I have UT orange table coverings! We won't talk about UT's record this season! :-) or rather :-( Dates: November 25-27, 2005 Hours: Friday-10:00 am - 7:00 pm Saturday-10:00 am - 6:00 pm Sunday -noon - 5:00 pm Location: South Carolina State Fairgrounds, South Carolina State Fairgrounds, Moore Bldg., 1200 Rosewood Dr. Hope to see you there! Stop by and say "HI!" and introduce yourself. Maybe you'll even see something I have that you can't live without. John Teague Volunteer Gems Knoxville, Tennessee http://www.VolunteerGems.com From MCGINNISG at aol.com Thu Nov 24 14:38:53 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 24 14:38:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SPAMMER Message-ID: <259.21494bd.30b79afd@aol.com> 3 or 4 times a month I get a spam from _rcarlini@aliceposta.it_ (mailto:rcarlini@aliceposta.it) representing _www.mineralsvillage.com_ (http://www.mineralsvillage.com) . Apparently they copy and use email address off the drizzle lists. After emailing them several times to delete me from their spam lists...I now receive spam copies addressed to _mystichorse6@aol.com_ (mailto:mystichorse6@aol.com) and then forwarded to my email. Has anyone else had spam problems from R. Carlini ??? Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapidry at aol.com Thu Nov 24 14:57:07 2005 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 24 14:57:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SPAMMER Message-ID: <1ef.47982dc8.30b79f43@aol.com> Yes, he's gleaned e-mails from the list..... Dan In a message dated 11/24/2005 5:39:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: 3 or 4 times a month I get a spam from _rcarlini@aliceposta.it_ (mailto:rcarlini@aliceposta.it) representing _www.mineralsvillage.com_ (http://www.mineralsvillage.com) . Apparently they copy and use email address off the drizzle lists. After emailing them several times to delete me from their spam lists...I now receive spam copies addressed to _mystichorse6@aol.com_ (mailto:mystichorse6@aol.com) and then forwarded to my email. Has anyone else had spam problems from R. Carlini ??? Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Nov 24 15:15:29 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Nov 24 15:17:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SPAMMER References: <1ef.47982dc8.30b79f43@aol.com> Message-ID: <00a901c5f14c$fa9b2fd0$12b4010a@warren> I suspect it's not from the list itself (that is, neither of those e-mail addresses are list members, and I've never received one) but out of the list archives, or from another list rockhounds list. (John thinks he might have seen one from a Yahoo "Mineral Collectors" list or something like that, but he hasn't from the drizzle list.) While the archives obscure the e-mail addresses from 'bots (but not from humans - they are translated as fred at flinstone.com, with the word "at" replacing the @ sign) if someone has used a reply that includes the e-mail address of the person they are replying to, that is not obscured. We'll be moving the archives shortly (and adding the old archives back into the mix) and I will see about eliminating e-mail addresses from those. Thanks, Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] SPAMMER > > Yes, he's gleaned e-mails from the list..... > > Dan > > In a message dated 11/24/2005 5:39:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, > MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: > > 3 or 4 times a month I get a spam from _rcarlini@aliceposta.it_ > (mailto:rcarlini@aliceposta.it) representing > _www.mineralsvillage.com_ (http://www.mineralsvillage.com) . Apparently > they > copy and use email address off the drizzle lists. > After emailing them several times to delete me from their spam lists...I > now > receive spam copies addressed to _mystichorse6@aol.com_ > (mailto:mystichorse6@aol.com) and then forwarded to my email. > > Has anyone else had spam problems from R. Carlini ??? > > Timm > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Thu Nov 24 22:25:03 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 24 22:26:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SPAMMER In-Reply-To: <00a901c5f14c$fa9b2fd0$12b4010a@warren> References: <1ef.47982dc8.30b79f43@aol.com> <00a901c5f14c$fa9b2fd0$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20051124222400.022cc928@mail.spiritone.com> No, he harvested the emails from people who _posted_ to this list. I complained to him, to no avail, and then complained to his ISP; the spams finally stopped. At 03:15 PM 11/24/2005, you wrote: >I suspect it's not from the list itself (that is, neither of those e-mail >addresses are list members, and I've never received one) but out of the >list archives, or from another list rockhounds list. (John thinks he might >have seen one from a Yahoo "Mineral Collectors" list or something like >that, but he hasn't from the drizzle list.) > >While the archives obscure the e-mail addresses from 'bots (but not from >humans - they are translated as fred at flinstone.com, with the word "at" >replacing the @ sign) if someone has used a reply that includes the e-mail >address of the person they are replying to, that is not obscured. > >We'll be moving the archives shortly (and adding the old archives back >into the mix) and I will see about eliminating e-mail addresses from those. > >Thanks, > >Julie > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: >To: >Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 2:57 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] SPAMMER > > >> >>Yes, he's gleaned e-mails from the list..... >> >>Dan >> >>In a message dated 11/24/2005 5:39:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: >> >>3 or 4 times a month I get a spam from _rcarlini@aliceposta.it_ >>(mailto:rcarlini@aliceposta.it) representing >>_www.mineralsvillage.com_ (http://www.mineralsvillage.com) . Apparently >>they >>copy and use email address off the drizzle lists. >>After emailing them several times to delete me from their spam lists...I >>now >>receive spam copies addressed to _mystichorse6@aol.com_ >>(mailto:mystichorse6@aol.com) and then forwarded to my email. >> >>Has anyone else had spam problems from R. Carlini ??? >> >>Timm >> >> >> >> >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net Fri Nov 25 00:46:12 2005 From: jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net (Jim) Date: Fri Nov 25 00:45:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] newby Message-ID: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP> Hello, I am a new member. I work in aviation as a helicopter mechanic for a small helicopter company in Alaska. I have been collecting since I was a kid. When I started working on helicopters I was able to expand on collecting, working in the field on geological contracts. I discovered the technical side of the hobby about 15 years ago. I have a lot to learn, and two areas I need more help in are Blowpiping and Crystallography. At this point I would consider myself a systematic collector. However one area of specialization is the acquisition of as many Native Elements as I can. I have, at present, eleven Native Elements. After some thought I really do not have a favorite mineral per se', but rather, a favorite mineral habit. The habit of Malachite or Chalcedony, Botryoidal. Well I will go for now. Sincerely, Jim Prentiss --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Fri Nov 25 06:34:47 2005 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Fri Nov 25 06:34:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] newby In-Reply-To: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP> References: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP> Message-ID: Jim, Welcome to the list. It can be a tremendous source of information. If you have specific questions about blowpiping or crystallography I am sure that there is someone on the list who can either answer the question directly or refer you to written resources. I hope that you enjoy the list as much as I do. Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 11/25/05, Jim wrote: > Hello, > > I am a new member. I work in aviation as a helicopter mechanic for a small helicopter company in Alaska. I have been collecting since I was a kid. When I started working on helicopters I was able to expand on collecting, working in the field on geological contracts. I discovered the technical side of the hobby about 15 years ago. I have a lot to learn, and two areas I need more help in are Blowpiping and Crystallography. At this point I would consider myself a systematic collector. However one area of specialization is the acquisition of as many Native Elements as I can. I have, at present, eleven Native Elements. After some thought I really do not have a favorite mineral per se', but rather, a favorite mineral habit. The habit of Malachite or Chalcedony, Botryoidal. > > Well I will go for now. > > Sincerely, > > Jim Prentiss > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Jg81638 at aol.com Fri Nov 25 07:59:47 2005 From: Jg81638 at aol.com (Jg81638@aol.com) Date: Fri Nov 25 07:59:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Native Elements newby Message-ID: Hi Jim another welcome to the list. I have a specific request, I'd be interested in a list of those eleven Native Elements in your collection, name, location/source and any other relevant information. FYI my own obsession is "concretions". Once again, welcome aboard. Jim Groves --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Fri Nov 25 09:32:29 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Fri Nov 25 09:32:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] newby References: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP> Message-ID: <001301c5f1e6$37c69360$78f1edc1@mpc1> >Elements. After some thought I really do not have a favorite mineral per >se', but rather, a favorite >mineral habit. The habit of Malachite or >Chalcedony, Botryoidal. Good to hear from someone who likes mineral forms too! I collect botryoidal things and stalactites as well - not your standard offerings though, but odd things, botryoidal galena and vanadinite (well, actually they're more mammilary, but who's counting?) and stalactitic ditto for example. Mick From goldredge at i-is.com Fri Nov 25 05:50:32 2005 From: goldredge at i-is.com (goldredge) Date: Fri Nov 25 10:23:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] scarrows rockshop Message-ID: <000801c5f1c7$35c02d20$64ea6742@soundman> Does scarrows rockshop have a web address? you say he has pic's on display and for sale, but where? Appreciate some info. thanks, Paul --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net Fri Nov 25 12:36:20 2005 From: jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net (Jim) Date: Fri Nov 25 12:34:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] newby References: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP> <001301c5f1e6$37c69360$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <003101c5f1ff$e72e4190$6501a8c0@JimP> Hello Mick, Thanks for the welcome. Although it is my favorite habit it is woefully one of the least represented among those in my collection. I would be interested in seeing botryoidal galena and vanadinite. Can you email me photos to jimbob58@pobox.mtaonline.net? What kind of collection do you have? How long have you been collecting? In addition to minerals I started some years back collecting mineral references from used book stores as most new books are rather spendy. Ihave several now but I am always looking for more. Bye for now, Jimp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick Cooper" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] newby > >Elements. After some thought I really do not have a favorite mineral per > >se', but rather, a favorite >mineral habit. The habit of Malachite or > >Chalcedony, Botryoidal. > > Good to hear from someone who likes mineral forms too! I collect botryoidal > things and stalactites as well - not your standard offerings though, but odd > things, botryoidal galena and vanadinite (well, actually they're more > mammilary, but who's counting?) and stalactitic ditto for example. > > Mick > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net Fri Nov 25 14:19:47 2005 From: jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net (Jim) Date: Fri Nov 25 14:17:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] newby References: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP> Message-ID: <004b01c5f20e$58b09a80$6501a8c0@JimP> Hello Nate, Thanks for the welcome. I will have to make a list of questions now that I have access. What are your interests in the hobby. Bye for now Jimp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Martin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 5:34 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] newby > Jim, > > Welcome to the list. It can be a tremendous source of information. > If you have specific questions about blowpiping or crystallography I > am sure that there is someone on the list who can either answer the > question directly or refer you to written resources. I hope that you > enjoy the list as much as I do. > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > On 11/25/05, Jim wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I am a new member. I work in aviation as a helicopter mechanic for a small helicopter company in Alaska. I have been collecting since I was a kid. When I started working on helicopters I was able to expand on collecting, working in the field on geological contracts. I discovered the technical side of the hobby about 15 years ago. I have a lot to learn, and two areas I need more help in are Blowpiping and Crystallography. At this point I would consider myself a systematic collector. However one area of specialization is the acquisition of as many Native Elements as I can. I have, at present, eleven Native Elements. After some thought I really do not have a favorite mineral per se', but rather, a favorite mineral habit. The habit of Malachite or Chalcedony, Botryoidal. > > > > Well I will go for now. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Jim Prentiss > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 25 15:24:13 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 25 15:08:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] newby References: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP> <004b01c5f20e$58b09a80$6501a8c0@JimP> Message-ID: <4387994F.6BEC@Tomaszewski.net> Jim, You will be more likely to get a response if you post each question (or group of closely related questions) seperately with an appropriate subject than if you just post a list of questions in one message. BTW, in addition to collecting elements, do you also collect stable alloys like Allemontite or Mohawkite? Kreigh Jim wrote: > > Hello Nate, > > Thanks for the welcome. I will have to make a list of questions now that I > have access. What are your interests in the hobby. > > Bye for now > > Jimp > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nathan Martin" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 5:34 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] newby > > > Jim, > > > > Welcome to the list. It can be a tremendous source of information. > > If you have specific questions about blowpiping or crystallography I > > am sure that there is someone on the list who can either answer the > > question directly or refer you to written resources. I hope that you > > enjoy the list as much as I do. > > > > Nate Martin > > Lexington, MA > > > > On 11/25/05, Jim wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > I am a new member. I work in aviation as a helicopter mechanic for a > small helicopter company in Alaska. I have been collecting since I was a > kid. When I started working on helicopters I was able to expand on > collecting, working in the field on geological contracts. I discovered the > technical side of the hobby about 15 years ago. I have a lot to learn, and > two areas I need more help in are Blowpiping and Crystallography. At this > point I would consider myself a systematic collector. However one area of > specialization is the acquisition of as many Native Elements as I can. I > have, at present, eleven Native Elements. After some thought I really do not > have a favorite mineral per se', but rather, a favorite mineral habit. The > habit of Malachite or Chalcedony, Botryoidal. > > > > > > Well I will go for now. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Jim Prentiss From jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net Fri Nov 25 17:27:41 2005 From: jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net (Jim) Date: Fri Nov 25 17:25:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] newby References: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP><004b01c5f20e$58b09a80$6501a8c0@JimP> <4387994F.6BEC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000401c5f228$9ab983f0$6501a8c0@JimP> Hello Kreigh, Yes I do. I have a good sized piece of Mohawkite(Domeykite) from the Mohawk mine in Michigan. I do not have Allemontite. The native elements/alloys are a pseudospecialization. I collect about anything I can get ahold of. A habit from the earlier days after my discovery of rock shops. What are your interests in the hobby? A question on blowpiping. If one did not have a blowpipe could a small butane torch be used in lieu of the blowpipe? Bye for now Jimp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 2:24 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] newby > Jim, > > You will be more likely to get a response if you post each question (or > group of closely related questions) seperately with an appropriate > subject than if you just post a list of questions in one message. > > BTW, in addition to collecting elements, do you also collect stable > alloys like Allemontite or Mohawkite? > > Kreigh > > > Jim wrote: > > > > Hello Nate, > > > > Thanks for the welcome. I will have to make a list of questions now that I > > have access. What are your interests in the hobby. > > > > Bye for now > > > > Jimp > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Nathan Martin" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 5:34 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] newby > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > Welcome to the list. It can be a tremendous source of information. > > > If you have specific questions about blowpiping or crystallography I > > > am sure that there is someone on the list who can either answer the > > > question directly or refer you to written resources. I hope that you > > > enjoy the list as much as I do. > > > > > > Nate Martin > > > Lexington, MA > > > > > > On 11/25/05, Jim wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > I am a new member. I work in aviation as a helicopter mechanic for a > > small helicopter company in Alaska. I have been collecting since I was a > > kid. When I started working on helicopters I was able to expand on > > collecting, working in the field on geological contracts. I discovered the > > technical side of the hobby about 15 years ago. I have a lot to learn, and > > two areas I need more help in are Blowpiping and Crystallography. At this > > point I would consider myself a systematic collector. However one area of > > specialization is the acquisition of as many Native Elements as I can. I > > have, at present, eleven Native Elements. After some thought I really do not > > have a favorite mineral per se', but rather, a favorite mineral habit. The > > habit of Malachite or Chalcedony, Botryoidal. > > > > > > > > Well I will go for now. > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > Jim Prentiss > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 25 19:13:30 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 25 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Collecting Elements, and a List Challenge {was: Re: [Rockhounds] newby} References: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP><004b01c5f20e$58b09a80$6501a8c0@JimP> <4387994F.6BEC@Tomaszewski.net> <000401c5f228$9ab983f0$6501a8c0@JimP> Message-ID: <4387CEEC.FF3@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Jim, I am primarily a systematic collector, and I have a special fondness for elements, with 17 in my collection (carbon counts twice, once as diamond and once as graphite). I also have a number of native alloys and include them as a sub-category of elements. I also have a fondness for ore minerals, but I collect them more for the various mines they come from. I have a sub-speciality in this collection of Selenite (gypsum) because it is the only mineral mined in the area. I also have one small display case (in the Living Room ;-) dedicated to pretty or unusual specimens. that would speak for themselves to anyone (my wife's condition when she gave the the cabinet one year for Christmas). My main systematic collection is in the front hall, opposit the china cabinet, in an eight section lighted display cabinet. It currently holds about 1/4 of all the known/recognized minerals, one specimen of each. The bulk of my collection (mineral duplicates, rocks, and fossils) pretty much fills the available space in the basement (and several storage racks in the garage). Oh, I also have a small display case that only holds three specimens on my desk at work. My goal for this case is to represent my collecting goals with only three specimens. BTW, I cheat and put a fourth specimen on top of the glass case, and rotate it monthly. My challenge to the list -- If you had to represent your collection with only three specimens, what would they be, and why? I selected my first specimen to represent self collecting and scientific interest: Sulfur from a vent in Hawaii that has been lab analyized and includes Silica, Cristobalite, Anatase, Opal, Pyrite, Millosevichite, and Feldspar (with possible Quartz, Rutile, and Corundum). My second specimen represents my interest in ores and type localities: Cryolite on Siderite from Ivigut, Greenland. My third specimen represents my interest in Selenite and pretty crystals: Atacamite included in Selenite from Peru. So how about it List, how would you represent your collection in three specimens? Kreigh Jim wrote: > > Hello Kreigh, > > Yes I do. I have a good sized piece of Mohawkite(Domeykite) from the Mohawk > mine in Michigan. I do not have Allemontite. The native elements/alloys are > a pseudospecialization. I collect about anything I can get ahold of. A habit > from the earlier days after my discovery of rock shops. > > What are your interests in the hobby? > > A question on blowpiping. If one did not have a blowpipe could a small > butane torch be used in lieu of the blowpipe? > > Bye for now > > Jimp > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 2:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] newby > > > Jim, > > > > You will be more likely to get a response if you post each question (or > > group of closely related questions) seperately with an appropriate > > subject than if you just post a list of questions in one message. > > > > BTW, in addition to collecting elements, do you also collect stable > > alloys like Allemontite or Mohawkite? > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > Jim wrote: > > > > > > Hello Nate, > > > > > > Thanks for the welcome. I will have to make a list of questions now that > I > > > have access. What are your interests in the hobby. > > > > > > Bye for now > > > > > > Jimp > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Nathan Martin" > > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 5:34 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] newby > > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > > > Welcome to the list. It can be a tremendous source of information. > > > > If you have specific questions about blowpiping or crystallography I > > > > am sure that there is someone on the list who can either answer the > > > > question directly or refer you to written resources. I hope that you > > > > enjoy the list as much as I do. > > > > > > > > Nate Martin > > > > Lexington, MA > > > > > > > > On 11/25/05, Jim wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > I am a new member. I work in aviation as a helicopter mechanic for a > > > small helicopter company in Alaska. I have been collecting since I was a > > > kid. When I started working on helicopters I was able to expand on > > > collecting, working in the field on geological contracts. I discovered > the > > > technical side of the hobby about 15 years ago. I have a lot to learn, > and > > > two areas I need more help in are Blowpiping and Crystallography. At > this > > > point I would consider myself a systematic collector. However one area > of > > > specialization is the acquisition of as many Native Elements as I can. I > > > have, at present, eleven Native Elements. After some thought I really do > not > > > have a favorite mineral per se', but rather, a favorite mineral habit. > The > > > habit of Malachite or Chalcedony, Botryoidal. > > > > > > > > > > Well I will go for now. > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > > > > > Jim Prentiss From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 25 19:43:47 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 25 19:27:04 2005 Subject: Blowpipes {was: Re: [Rockhounds] newby} References: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP><004b01c5f20e$58b09a80$6501a8c0@JimP> <4387994F.6BEC@Tomaszewski.net> <000401c5f228$9ab983f0$6501a8c0@JimP> Message-ID: <4387D600.5577@Tomaszewski.net> Jim wrote: > A question on blowpiping. If one did not have a blowpipe could a small > butane torch be used in lieu of the blowpipe? Jim, One of the key elements of using a blowpipe is to be able use either the reducing or oxydizing part of the flame. With just a torch you are pretty much limited to the outer oxydixing portion of the flame, limiting the number of tests you can perform. A blowpipe is a pretty cheap item of lab equipment, but they are not always easy to find. You can make your own blowpipe. Go to your local hardware store and buy a foot long piece of brass pipe (1/8 to 1/4 inch) for a dollar or two. Heat it up red hot over your kitchen stove and bend one end around a soup can to make a rounded 'L' without kinking the pipe closed. Use pliers because the metal will get too hot to hold. Now close off the small end with solder, and using a very small drill, make a tiny hole. OR Close off the small end with solder with a thin copper wire running thru it. Let it cool. Put it in a vise. Heat the copper wire while pulling on it until it comes out of the solder, leaving a small hole. You will be much better off using the torch for a flame with a blowpipe than trying to use just the torch. Kreigh From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 25 19:55:38 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 25 19:53:52 2005 Subject: Blowpipes {was: Re: [Rockhounds] newby} In-Reply-To: <4387D600.5577@Tomaszewski.net> References: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP><004b01c5f20e$58b09a80$6501a8c0@JimP> <4387994F.6BEC@Tomaszewski.net> <000401c5f228$9ab983f0$6501a8c0@JimP> <4387D600.5577@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4387DCBA.8090105@verizon.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: Kreigh & krew, It's not so much having a blowpipe, it's using it. I could never get that thing with the "keep your cheeks puffed out and blow in a steady stream, just like playing a flute." Well I tried learning flute in college, and I could never do that either! That's one reason I sold you most of my blowpipe-based books! However, there is a way out: people have used aquarium air pumps to power the blowpipe. Miners Incorporated sells a blow pipe, which you can either buy or use as a model: http://www.minerox.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=1373 I tried this, and it worked, but by the time I was really comfortable with the blowpipe method I was ready to pack up and come to school. Good luck and keep it up, Don From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Nov 25 19:57:15 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 25 19:57:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] newby & botryoidal Message-ID: Mick, Better yet how about posting the pics to a site we can access with a link? BTW  Jim, a big welcome to this terriffic list! Glenn   ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation - the next best thing to being there! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Nov 25 20:17:33 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 25 20:17:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mobile Alabama Show Day 1 report Message-ID: The Mobile Show Day 1 was great. Lots of dealers with lots of stuff. And lots of customers came out. Our sluice and kids' dig were busy from open to close, especially the sliuce. So far I have purchased only a couple of shark teeth, three octohedral deep purple flourite crystals, and a quartz egg. But I have my eye on at least one amethyst cathedral. Day 2 & 3 reports to follow. Glenn Wimpee From: "Glenn Wimpee" <pawpawtiger@hotmail.com> Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Mobile Alabama Show announcement Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:04:23 -0600 >The Mobile Rock and Gem Show will be held at the Fairgrounds in Mobile, Alabama on Friday 2-7PM, Saturday 10AM - 7PM, and Sunday 11AM-5PM, Nov 25, 26 & 27. Thats this weekend after Thanksging Day. >The fairgrounds are at the intersection of Zeigler Blvd and Cody Rd. > >We have a full slate of dealers and exhibits for our 11th annual show. There is even going to be a sluice. Demonstrations of cabbing and faceting are planned. > > > >Admission is $3.00 for adults. > >The show is indoors, and RV sites&nbsp;may still be&nbsp;available at the fairgrounds. > >Katrina hurt many in nearby areas, but this show is definitely on. And it may be one of few on the Gulf Coast this fall. > >Ya'll come!!! > >Glenn Wimpee > > > >Bring a copy of this for $1.00 off admission! > > > > > > >------------------------------------------ > >------------------------------------------ >3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! >------------------------------------------ > >------------------------------------------ > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >text/html (html body -- converted) >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ 3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 25 20:40:22 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 25 20:23:29 2005 Subject: Blowpipes {was: Re: [Rockhounds] newby} References: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP><004b01c5f20e$58b09a80$6501a8c0@JimP> <4387994F.6BEC@Tomaszewski.net> <000401c5f228$9ab983f0$6501a8c0@JimP> <4387D600.5577@Tomaszewski.net> <4387DCBA.8090105@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4387E33C.2F59@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Don, Thanks for the tip about using an aquarium pump. I'm going to try it. I never was any good at wind instruments either (but two of my daughters are pretty good at them) and played percussion -- it was a lot closer to hitting rocks with a hammer, which I am much more familiar with. BTW, I come by it honestly -- my Dad used a bellows for wind (he played the accordian, piano, and tympany). Kreigh DonH wrote: > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Kreigh & krew, > > It's not so much having a blowpipe, it's using it. I could never get > that thing with the "keep your cheeks puffed out and blow in a steady > stream, just like playing a flute." Well I tried learning flute in > college, and I could never do that either! That's one reason I sold you > most of my blowpipe-based books! > > However, there is a way out: people have used aquarium air pumps to > power the blowpipe. Miners Incorporated sells > a blow pipe, which you can either buy or use as a model: > > http://www.minerox.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=1373 > > I tried this, and it worked, but by the time I was really comfortable > with the blowpipe method I was ready to pack up and come to school. > > Good luck and keep it up, > Don From jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net Fri Nov 25 23:37:05 2005 From: jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net (Jim) Date: Fri Nov 25 23:35:11 2005 Subject: Blowpipes {was: Re: [Rockhounds] newby} References: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP><004b01c5f20e$58b09a80$6501a8c0@JimP><4387994F.6BEC@Tomaszewski.net> <000401c5f228$9ab983f0$6501a8c0@JimP> <4387D600.5577@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000601c5f25c$359e7fa0$6501a8c0@JimP> Thank you Kreigh. I was afraid it was to easy. Jimp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 6:43 PM Subject: Blowpipes {was: Re: [Rockhounds] newby} > Jim wrote: > > A question on blowpiping. If one did not have a blowpipe could a small > > butane torch be used in lieu of the blowpipe? > > Jim, > > One of the key elements of using a blowpipe is to be able use either the > reducing or oxydizing part of the flame. With just a torch you are > pretty much limited to the outer oxydixing portion of the flame, > limiting the number of tests you can perform. > > A blowpipe is a pretty cheap item of lab equipment, but they are not > always easy to find. > > You can make your own blowpipe. Go to your local hardware store and buy > a foot long piece of brass pipe (1/8 to 1/4 inch) for a dollar or two. > Heat it up red hot over your kitchen stove and bend one end around a > soup can to make a rounded 'L' without kinking the pipe closed. Use > pliers because the metal will get too hot to hold. > > Now close off the small end with solder, and using a very small drill, > make a tiny hole. > > OR > > Close off the small end with solder with a thin copper wire running thru > it. Let it cool. Put it in a vise. Heat the copper wire while pulling on > it until it comes out of the solder, leaving a small hole. > > You will be much better off using the torch for a flame with a blowpipe > than trying to use just the torch. > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net Fri Nov 25 23:43:05 2005 From: jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net (Jim) Date: Fri Nov 25 23:41:06 2005 Subject: Blowpipes {was: Re: [Rockhounds] newby} References: <000a01c5f19c$b33b7e60$6501a8c0@JimP><004b01c5f20e$58b09a80$6501a8c0@JimP><4387994F.6BEC@Tomaszewski.net> <000401c5f228$9ab983f0$6501a8c0@JimP><4387D600.5577@Tomaszewski.net> <4387DCBA.8090105@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000b01c5f25d$09eec350$6501a8c0@JimP> Thanks Don. I appreciate that idea. I have tried the process, only to the delight of other people who caught me looking like Alvin the chipmunk. Jimp ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 6:55 PM Subject: Re: Blowpipes {was: Re: [Rockhounds] newby} > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > Kreigh & krew, > > It's not so much having a blowpipe, it's using it. I could never get > that thing with the "keep your cheeks puffed out and blow in a steady > stream, just like playing a flute." Well I tried learning flute in > college, and I could never do that either! That's one reason I sold you > most of my blowpipe-based books! > > However, there is a way out: people have used aquarium air pumps to > power the blowpipe. Miners Incorporated sells > a blow pipe, which you can either buy or use as a model: > > http://www.minerox.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=1373 > > I tried this, and it worked, but by the time I was really comfortable > with the blowpipe method I was ready to pack up and come to school. > > > Good luck and keep it up, > Don > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From magnet at crocoite.com Sat Nov 26 03:31:37 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Sat Nov 26 03:31:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: List Challenge Message-ID: <20051126113138.24968.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi Kreigh and list Three specimens is a real tough one. Like you, I have a systematic collection and use most of my collection as a reference collection. However, if I HAD to choose, they would all be self-collected... 1. Crocoite. As you would expect from my website, I have a "few" crocoites. The one that I would keep is not the most spectacular, nor the largest, but one that I saved from almost certain destruction. A few years ago, I was in the adit at the Dundas Extended Mine (Dundas, Tasmania) operated by Mike and Eleanor Phelan, good friends of mine. The roof of the adit is not all that much above the average person's head (why remove rock if you don't have to!) and as I looked up at one point, I noticed a small crocoite specimen with terminated crystals about 1cm long hanging down. How it hadn't already been broken off, I don't know. I gently levered off a small piece of rock with the crocoite crystals intact. 2. Quartz. My favourite mineral by far. One specimen in particular is my absolute favourite. A smoky quartz from Mt Bischoff (Waratah, Tasmania) with small purple fluorite and brown siderite crystals. This was dug out of material dumped from a trench. The thing that makes it more special is that the day that I found it, I wasn't planning to be at Bischoff but at nearby Magnet Mine (where you can find crocoite). I was heading towards the Magnet turnoff with my family, about 13km from Waratah, and just before we got there, we were stopped by stewards for a leg of the Australasian Rally Car Championships. They had the road closed. I was pretty angry because there was no sign back at Waratah saying that you couldn't get through. We returned, had lunch, and my wife said "why don't you have a bit of a dig at Bischoff?". The rest is history! 3. The toughest decision. Gold. Before I got interested in minerals (didn't really know that they existed!), I did a bit of panning at Warrandyte (Melbourne, Victoria), at the site of one of two gold finds that started the Victorian gold rush in the 1850s. I still have a small nugget about 2mm across (I did say small!) that I panned. It is shaped like a wombat's head. But...I have to include one find, not a mineral but related. A few year's back, I travelled over to England to see my mother who was terminally ill. She died about four days after I arrived but I was to stay for another three weeks to look after my father. Through a series of circumstances, I was able to visit some mine sites in Cumbria. At one of these, I found a clog iron (bit like a small horseshoe) that the early miners wore on the heels of their clogs (wooden shoes). What made this special was that it was found on a dump from a mine that had been closed for almost 150 years. Well-rusted, but intact, and a reminder of the time spent with my mother. This sits at the front of my cabinet. Regards Steve From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 26 06:11:52 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Nov 26 06:11:57 2005 Subject: Blowpipes {was: Re: [Rockhounds] newby} In-Reply-To: <4387DCBA.8090105@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20051126141152.36914.qmail@web34315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Great idea, Don! I used to be fairly proficient with the blowpipe, but after my top teeth were extracted, I could no longer use it in the conventional way. This could solve the problem. Jim Daly --- DonH wrote: > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > Kreigh & krew, > > It's not so much having a blowpipe, it's using it. > I could never get > that thing with the "keep your cheeks puffed out and > blow in a steady > stream, just like playing a flute." Well I tried > learning flute in > college, and I could never do that either! That's > one reason I sold you > most of my blowpipe-based books! > > However, there is a way out: people have used > aquarium air pumps to > power the blowpipe. Miners Incorporated > sells > a blow pipe, which you can either buy or use as a > model: > > http://www.minerox.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=1373 > > I tried this, and it worked, but by the time I was > really comfortable > with the blowpipe method I was ready to pack up and > come to school. > > > Good luck and keep it up, > Don > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From JScully216 at aol.com Sat Nov 26 07:17:09 2005 From: JScully216 at aol.com (JScully216@aol.com) Date: Sat Nov 26 07:17:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Privatizing the American West -- fight the Pombo Amendment Message-ID: <291.5b5747.30b9d675@aol.com> I am very upset at the almost complete lack of response to my e-mail two weeks ago about this amendment. Please, please call your Senators and make sure they are going to oppose the Pombo amendment when the House bill is considered after Thanksgiving. We may not have much time. This will affect ALL of us who use the national forests and BLM lands for ANY PURPOSE including rockhounding. ACT!!!!!!!!!! Privatizing the American West Published: November 26, 2005 New York Times While lawmakers are in recess, it is worth reflecting on one particular part of the mess they have left behind. Last week, a budget bill scraped through the House, 217 to 215. Democrats and moderate Republicans had already stripped a provision to allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But the House bill left intact an evil trap to be sprung on the American public: Richard Pombo's plan to put a few hundred million acres of publicly owned land up for sale in the American West. Mr. Pombo, Republican of California, is head of the House Resources Committee and has long been determined to privatize as much of the West as he can lay his hands on. His bill would allow the holders of mining claims to buy the land outright instead of leasing it - a substantial revision of the current practice. He argues that his proposal would merely adjust laws and affect only about 360,000 acres where mining claims are currently being developed or explored. But the bill is so vaguely drawn that at least 6 million acres of public land, and possibly as much as 350 million acres, could wind up in the hands of private buyers. These buyers need to express only the intent to develop a mineral claim without any need to demonstrate commercial mining potential. Once the land is bought, it can be developed as the owners see fit. This is a blatant fraud on the American people, expressed in bland legislative legalese. The question is, Who is going to stop it? The bill has to clear a few more hurdles before becoming the law of the land - a House-Senate conference committee and final votes in the House and the Senate. In the best of all possible worlds, the House negotiators would reject the worst aspects of the Senate bill, which authorizes drilling in the Arctic refuge, and the Senate negotiators would reject the worst aspects of the House version, including Mr. Pombo's outrageous raid on the public lands. This is not the long shot it might have seemed as recently as a week ago. Americans have come to understand that America can't drill its way out of dependency on Middle Eastern oil, and that ravaging the Arctic is no substitute for sound energy policy. They also understand that Mr. Pombo's sleight of hand is little more than legislative robbery. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tam2819 at cox.net Sat Nov 26 08:05:02 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Sat Nov 26 08:05:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Privatizing the American West -- fight the Pombo Amendment In-Reply-To: <291.5b5747.30b9d675@aol.com> References: <291.5b5747.30b9d675@aol.com> Message-ID: <1da74b571f17eb8b76fdd48658421bd4@cox.net> JS, I believe you missed a reply onlist from Anne Schaefer. It included good information. and a California connection. I deleted it while in Texas, now I am back home and cannot retrieve it. Sorry, perhaps someone can send it on to you. Terrie From JScully216 at aol.com Sat Nov 26 08:25:46 2005 From: JScully216 at aol.com (JScully216@aol.com) Date: Sat Nov 26 08:25:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Privatizing the American West -- fight the Pombo Amendment Message-ID: <2b2.9a150d.30b9e68a@aol.com> I did miss it. What I really want to see and hear is that people are incredibly upset about this. In a message dated 11/26/2005 9:05:20 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, tam2819@cox.net writes: JS, I believe you missed a reply onlist from Anne Schaefer. It included good information. and a California connection. I deleted it while in Texas, now I am back home and cannot retrieve it. Sorry, perhaps someone can send it on to you. Terrie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds at adelphia.net Sat Nov 26 12:49:53 2005 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Sat Nov 26 12:44:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw Message-ID: <000001c5f2ca$f48d6570$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> I have a very old saw that looks like a highland park but my rock shop guy says it's home made. I am missing part of the rock holding mechanism and at the part that screws the rock in to the say. How can I get new/used parts or diagrams to have them built. Thanks Kelly --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 13:19:44 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Nov 26 13:19:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Privatizing the American West -- fight the Pombo Amendment In-Reply-To: <291.5b5747.30b9d675@aol.com> References: <291.5b5747.30b9d675@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051126111516.0246e248@incoming.verizon.net> Hi JS, Perhaps some people (like Bill and me) did contact our Senators and friends and family to get them to act also, but failed to tell you so. Thank you for passing that information to us, and be assured, some of us are doing what we can. Aloha, Kitty At 05:17 AM 11/26/2005, JScully wrote: >I am very upset at the almost complete lack of response to my e-mail two >weeks ago about this amendment. Please, please call your Senators and >make sure >they are going to oppose the Pombo amendment when the House bill is >considered after Thanksgiving. We may not have much time. This will >affect ALL of >us who use the national forests and BLM lands for ANY PURPOSE including >rockhounding. > >ACT!!!!!!!!!! From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Nov 26 13:27:31 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Nov 26 13:24:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw References: <000001c5f2ca$f48d6570$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: <000501c5f2d0$368607c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Kelly, since it is an old homemade saw I think your best bet is to improvise. I built a homemade saw using a vise I bought at Orchard Supply Hardware and a screw feed mechanism from a estate sale of an old deceased rockhound. You might try Diamond Pacific that sells some old parts for old Highland Park saws or Lorotone that also sells some parts for their new saws that can be adapted to be used on old saws. You have to keep looking and asking. There is no easy solution to getting parts for your old saw. Having new parts made up from measurements is probably prohibitively expensive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Hanson" To: Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:49 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw I have a very old saw that looks like a highland park but my rock shop guy says it's home made. I am missing part of the rock holding mechanism and at the part that screws the rock in to the say. How can I get new/used parts or diagrams to have them built. Thanks Kelly --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds at adelphia.net Sat Nov 26 14:49:33 2005 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Sat Nov 26 14:43:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw In-Reply-To: <000501c5f2d0$368607c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000001c5f2db$aba2a5d0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Thanks for the tips. I just started looking for info today. I hope to find some one who has an old saw I can rob parts from or at least modify. Thanks for the help. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 1:28 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw Kelly, since it is an old homemade saw I think your best bet is to improvise. I built a homemade saw using a vise I bought at Orchard Supply Hardware and a screw feed mechanism from a estate sale of an old deceased rockhound. You might try Diamond Pacific that sells some old parts for old Highland Park saws or Lorotone that also sells some parts for their new saws that can be adapted to be used on old saws. You have to keep looking and asking. There is no easy solution to getting parts for your old saw. Having new parts made up from measurements is probably prohibitively expensive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Hanson" To: Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:49 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw I have a very old saw that looks like a highland park but my rock shop guy says it's home made. I am missing part of the rock holding mechanism and at the part that screws the rock in to the say. How can I get new/used parts or diagrams to have them built. Thanks Kelly --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 26 15:52:57 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 26 15:53:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: Cutting service+ Black Opals] Message-ID: <4388F556.6435@Tomaszewski.net> If anyone on the list is interested in cutting black opals for Stefan please contact him directly at stefansefraoui@yahoo.com. Stefan is not a list member but asked me to post this for him to see if anyone would be interested. Details are in Stefan's note below. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) message/rfc822 --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 26 16:20:57 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 26 16:21:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Fwd: Cutting service+ Black Opals] References: <4388F556.6435@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4388FBE1.1788@Tomaszewski.net> Oops, the forward got lost so I have pasted it in below. Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > If anyone on the list is interested in cutting black opals for Stefan > please contact him directly at stefansefraoui@yahoo.com. Stefan is not a > list member but asked me to post this for him to see if anyone would be > interested. Details are in Stefan's note below. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > message/rfc822 Subject: Cutting service+ Black Opals Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 12:43:14 -0800 (PST) From: Stefan Sefraoui To: Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net Hi Kreigh, I have a continuous source of black Opal which I want to cut and polish in the USA. Can you please refer me to someone who can do a good job here? I live in Texas,but recent years been working btw Europe and Africa (stone dealer) Regards. Stefan Stefan Sefraoui CPA, MBA S&B Inter LLC New York 45 John Street, NY 10036 +212-61411551 +34-679504636 References: <20050912212052.16687.qmail@web53215.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <438908C1.40507@verizon.net> Hi all, A few more items for sale. In accordance with the ad policy, I will wait a few weeks before posting any more. 1. Gems and Minerals, Jewlery Making issue; Feb. 1978. Articles: Idar Oberstein (excellent!); making an amethyst ring; cutting and polishing ulexite; creating a picture with gemstones. Good condition, paper a little yellow, some marks on cover. $2 + postage. 2. Gems and Minerals, Jan. 1969. Articles: A rockhound tours Europe (photo of Idar Oberstein on cover); California herderite; public land access (sounds familiar!); Quartzsite, Arizona's pow-wow town (still going strong!); micromounts; general articles on how-to. Some minor marks and stains, but completely readable. Buy it for the information, not the condition. $2 + postage. 3. Rocks and Minerals, Nov-Dec 1962. I love this issue. It is chock-full of history. Articles: fifty years of mineral collecting; tektites from Texas; Rock hunting in Hawaii; Chinese carved jade; 12 pound sapphire in North Carolina; Neil Yedlin's micromounter column, with a detailed story about the *sixth* annual Baltimore symposium (which is still going strong!); two pages on sand collecting; columns on fossils and fluorescent minerals; news from the Eastern Federation, including designs for an old-style federation case; a collecting map for Hurricane Mt., New Hampshire; and lots of fascinating ads. This one is neat because it was published before I was born. The condition is, well, consistent with its age, but quite readable, and again, the information is well worth the price. $2 + postage. 4. An Instant Guide to Rocks and Minerals, 125 p. A good little pocket book for beginners and field collectors. Color illustrations with ID info for common rocks and minerals. $2 + postage. 5. Digging Dinosaurs, by John Horner, 210 p. This is "the search that unraveled the mystery of baby dinosaurs" by the technical advisor to Jurrasic Park (which I wouldn't brag about if I were he, but whatever). Really neat story. $5 + postage. 6. The Practical Paleontologist, 160 p. A step-by-step guide to finding, studying, and interpreting fossils; hands-on and practical, with good illustrations and a lively pace. Good for both adults and young adults who want to delve into fossil collecting. $5 + postage. 7. The Practical Geologist, 160 p. The companion guide to #6 above. Easy reading, practical, with exercises and tips. I have a 99.9% average in introductory geology class thanks in large part to having read this book first, so it's got a lot of good information. However, now it's time to move on to the really boring details, and $5 can feed me for a day... $5 + postage. 8. Volcanoes of the World, 349 p. The Smithsonian Institution's magnum opus on volcanoes. This is *not* a fun book with pretty pictures; it is a book "summarizing 1,511 volcanoes active in the last 10,000 years--including coordinates, heights, types, known eruptive histories, and behavioral characteristics." Chock-full of data and maps. I lent it to a girl in class who wanted very much to be a volcanologist; she kept it more than a week, then decided she wanted to be a minor in education and be a geology teacher. If you're hard-core about volcanoes, the core doesn't get any harder than this. You can handle it for $10 + postage. 9. Show Me God--wait wait, don't get upset. This is 404 interesting pages illustrating the creationist/intelligent design point of view. Some really interesting science information too, I believe it was Aristotle who said that the mark of intelligence is being able to fully understand an opposing point of view without accepting it as your own. A fundamentalist co-worker gave it to me before I left for school; he was one of the few people who really knew why I was leaving corporate life and what I was going to do, and I suppose he thought he could convert me to his point of view since I would be someone directly involved with dating the earth and so forth. I found it interesting reading. If you really want to know what the debate is really all about, here it is. $5 INCLUDING shipping (essentially free) best, Don From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 17:24:21 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sat Nov 26 17:23:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] advert for fossil materials References: <20050912212052.16687.qmail@web53215.mail.yahoo.com> <438908C1.40507@verizon.net> Message-ID: <313701c5f2f1$4b7e0f80$6402a8c0@remains> Hi I have a few items for sale myself. They consist of mostly Lebanese Cretaceous marine fossils (sharks, skates, shrimp, fish, eels) but there are also a couple of other goodies in there...including a couple of VERY rare Canadian paleozoic fish, and a couple of other things. Rather than post the extensive list to everyone, if you have any interest in any of this material, please contact me offlist, and I can send you pics and prices and info. Some of the specimens I would like to "nlow out", so I will give VERY attractive prices on. Unlike so much of the Lebanese fossil material you see for sale on the web, none of this material has been artificially enhanced or painted in any way. What you see is what you get. Thanks...and please contact me offlist if interested. Michael From kahako at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 16:17:17 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Nov 26 18:17:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051126135632.0247ba98@incoming.verizon.net> Hi List, I thought maybe with the holiday season upon us it would be a good time to add a lighthearted brain tickling element. Below are the winners of the annual Mensa Invitational--- It is really worth taking time to read carefully---be sure to check the spelling and maybe even try saying the word to yourself. I especially like # 11 (with extra credit), and as an astronomer, Bill likes # 5, # 15, and #20 . Numbers 19 - 22 are ones that Kreigh added when I sent this to him off-list I'd like to propose that List members try their hand at the game with terms involving our hobby. Kreigh's entries are at the bottom. Aloha, Kitty The Washington Post's Mensa Invitational once again asked readers to take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding, subtracting, or changing one letter, and supply a new definition. Here are this year's {2005} winners: 1. Cashtration (n.): The act of buying a house, which renders the subject financially impotent for an indefinite period of time. 2. Ignoranus: A person who's both stupid and an asshole. 3. Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you realize it was your money to start with. 4. Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly. 5. Bozone (n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future. 6. Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of getting laid. 7. Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very, very high. 8. Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it. 9. Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late. 10. Hipatitis: Terminal coolness. 11. Osteopornosis: A degenerate disease. (This one got extra credit.) 12. Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer. 13. Decafalon (n.): The grueling event of getting through the day consuming only things that are good for you. 14. Glibido: All talk and no action. 15. Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly. 16. Arachnoleptic fit (n.): The frantic dance performed just after you've accidentally walked through a spider web. 17. Beelzebug (n.): Satan in the form of a mosquito, that gets into your bedroom at three in the morning and cannot be cast out. 18. Caterpallor (n.): The color you turn after finding half a worm in the fruit you're eating. 19. Actint -- the preferred color for stage lighting. 20. Teleslope -- the hill that observatories are typically built on. 21. Internot -- when your email account is down. 22. Painic -- what you do when you hurt yourself badly. ***************** ROCKHOUNDS INVITATIONAL: 1. Boraxe -- a field hand tool used to take core samples. 2. Diamont -- the prongs on an engagement ring. 3. Bouldert -- the dust that is left when you accidently drop a large fragile specimen on the floor. 4. Ultraviolent Light -- the sparks seen when cutting quartz or agate with a diamond saw OR the flash seen when a meteorite strikes the earth. 5. Vulcano -- a Spanish rubber cane. 6. Hematote -- the bag they collect blood in when you donate at the Red Cross. 7. Topadz -- a hand tool for taking off surface coatings on rock. 8. Rock Prick -- the shard that flew off the boulder you were breaking and stuck in your arm. 9. Petrafried -- getting too close to hot lava. 10. Techtonic -- a favorite drink of computer programmers. 11. Shardness Test -- hitting a rock with a hammer. 12. Hardnest -- a bird's home made of gravel. 13. Rock Slaw -- a salad with high mineral content. 14. Rock Stumbler -- what you stubbed your toe on getting to a collecting site. 15. Crock Club -- a group of slow cooks. 16. Diabaste -- using two kinds of sauce when cooking meat. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 26 19:37:26 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 26 19:37:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where can I buy good quality Mineral Tack? Message-ID: <438929ED.7C30@Tomaszewski.net> My long time supplier of Mineral Tack no longer carries it. Their supplier went out of business and they have not been able to find a suitable replacement source. Good quality Mineral Tack will not affect specimens while holding them firmly to a base for years, but remains pliable enough that it can be removed, even after years. Can anyone recommend a good supplier of Mineral Tack? I'll even consider a bulk purchase if someone knows who the original manufacturer is. I suspect it is originally called something else because I have seen the same product sold as Mineral Tack, Mineral Tak, and Mineral Tac. Can anyone help? Thanks! Kreigh From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 26 19:37:28 2005 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Nov 26 19:37:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Advertisement - Christmas Mineral Sale References: <20050912212052.16687.qmail@web53215.mail.yahoo.com><438908C1.40507@verizon.net> <313701c5f2f1$4b7e0f80$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <000d01c5f303$e4aea770$178c4c0c@LarryRush> Christmas Shopping Sale- Buy any two minerals from my site, and get one more of your choice free..... Good until December 15.... Larry Rush www.ConnRoxMinerals.com From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Nov 26 19:42:59 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Nov 26 19:43:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mobile Alabama Show Day 2 report Message-ID: The Mobile Alabama Jewelry Gem and Mineral Show is in full swing. Day 2 was full of rock and jewelry lovers. Also the flourescent tent was aglow. Lots of door prizes were won. And kids of all ages found minerals in the mine and sluice. Several local colleges have displays around the main entrance. Courses are offered in geology, jewelry, chemistry, and other related fields. Several planned and projected field trips were discussed by small groups of individuals. Our grandaughter Katherine and other Junior Members helped run errands and other tasks both days. Jeanette purchased a BUNCH of slabs, I bought that amethyst cathedral, and together we bought a copralite specimen and a trilobite fossil. And we agreed we had overrun our budget. But we still looked at lots more fascinating stuff. And we talked with lots of good folks who had sufferred lossses due to Katrina. But they were at the show! Too much stuff to see, too many things too want, and as always, too little cash. Some members of the Rolling Rock Club announced a 9:00 AM meeting prior to tomorrow's show. Glenn ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It's free! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From jd_lutz at hotmail.com Sat Nov 26 19:54:25 2005 From: jd_lutz at hotmail.com (Dave Lutz) Date: Sat Nov 26 19:54:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Member To The Group Message-ID: Hello everyone, I am new to the group. I found the group while doing a search for the Faircloth and Monitor(formerly Chinn) mines in Central Kentucky. I am a senior geological sciences major at the University of Kentucky. My primary areas of study are economic geology, fluvial geomorphology, speleology, and paleontology. I am about to begin my graduate work in the geological sciences and physical geography. My area of concentration is going to either be geochemistry of liesegang bands of the Pennsylvanian Breathitt Sandstones of E. Kentucky or economic geology pertaining to fluid fracture fillings in Central Kentucky fault structures. Dave Lutz From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sat Nov 26 20:02:14 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sat Nov 26 20:01:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Advertisement - Christmas Mineral Sale References: <20050912212052.16687.qmail@web53215.mail.yahoo.com> <438908C1.40507@verizon.net> <313701c5f2f1$4b7e0f80$6402a8c0@remains> <000d01c5f303$e4aea770$178c4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <319601c5f307$59f164c0$6402a8c0@remains> you might want to add to that: of equal or lesser value..... Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Advertisement - Christmas Mineral Sale > Christmas Shopping Sale- Buy any two minerals from my site, and get one > more of your choice free..... > > Good until December 15.... > > Larry Rush > > www.ConnRoxMinerals.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jbf at jbfminerals.com Sat Nov 26 20:23:55 2005 From: jbf at jbfminerals.com (Jeff Fast) Date: Sat Nov 26 20:24:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where can I buy good quality Mineral Tack? References: <438929ED.7C30@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001601c5f30a$61be2140$b757a545@Dell2004> Re: Mineral tack. They sell the stuff in Home Depot, now. I believe it is the exact same formulation. Jeff Fast www.jbfminerals.com (860) 985 - 6321 (USA) From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 26 20:35:33 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 26 20:35:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Member To The Group References: Message-ID: <43893782.4CAF@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Dave, Welcome to the List. You will find a wide range of interests here which helps keep it interesting. And when there is a question, someone on the List usually has an answer. Its a great group and we're glad to have you join us. BTW, I'm not familiar with the term liesegang bands. Could you tell us a little bit more about what they are? Thanks! Kreigh Dave Lutz wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > I am new to the group. I found the group while doing a search for the > Faircloth and Monitor(formerly Chinn) mines in Central Kentucky. I am a > senior geological sciences major at the University of Kentucky. My primary > areas of study are economic geology, fluvial geomorphology, speleology, and > paleontology. I am about to begin my graduate work in the geological > sciences and physical geography. My area of concentration is going to > either be geochemistry of liesegang bands of the Pennsylvanian Breathitt > Sandstones of E. Kentucky or economic geology pertaining to fluid fracture > fillings in Central Kentucky fault structures. > > Dave Lutz From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 26 20:43:13 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 26 20:43:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where can I buy good quality Mineral Tack? References: <438929ED.7C30@Tomaszewski.net> <001601c5f30a$61be2140$b757a545@Dell2004> Message-ID: <4389394E.5FA@Tomaszewski.net> Jeff, What does Home Depot call it? I suspect the average Home Depot employee won't know what I am looking for if I ask for Mineral Tack. Kreigh Jeff Fast wrote: > > Re: Mineral tack. > > They sell the stuff in Home Depot, now. I believe it is the exact same > formulation. > > Jeff Fast > www.jbfminerals.com > (860) 985 - 6321 (USA) > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Sat Nov 26 22:46:19 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Nov 26 22:46:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack questions (was Where can I buy...) In-Reply-To: <001601c5f30a$61be2140$b757a545@Dell2004> References: <438929ED.7C30@Tomaszewski.net> <001601c5f30a$61be2140$b757a545@Dell2004> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051126183531.024aef20@incoming.verizon.net> Jeff, At Home Depot do they call it "Mineral Tack" or some other name? In what department do they display it? Is Mineral Tack a brand name? I've often received specimens that I purchased from dealers where the tack is obviously old, but still good, and removable. But occasionally the stuff was either hard and crumbly, or gooey and almost impossible to remove. Some was white, and some was blue. I suspect that the bad ones may not have been true Mineral Tack, and I'm sure everyone has seen stuff in stationary stores or even supermarkets or drug stores called "Fun Tack," or "Poster Tack." I've used some of these products for their intended purpose, and had mixed results---sometimes the poster falls off, sometimes it stays up for years, sometimes it can be removed from the wall OK, and sometimes it takes off a piece of paint or wallpaper. I've even had some that pulls down like chewing gum, the poster dangling by a long string of goop. And often the stuff is impossible to remove from either the poster or the wall without using WD-40 (which works pretty well, but may damage the wall surface or the poster). I googled Mineral Tack and found the following (didn't check all results): http://homepage.mac.com/rasprague/PegShop/extras/adhesive/adhesive.html So how can we tell if any "tack" is the kind that is appropriate for our purposes? Aloha, Kitty At 06:23 PM 11/26/2005, Jeff Fast wrote: >Re: Mineral tack. > >They sell the stuff in Home Depot, now. I believe it is the exact same >formulation. From efkern at earthlink.net Sat Nov 26 22:47:42 2005 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sat Nov 26 22:47:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack / Museum putty References: <438929ED.7C30@Tomaszewski.net><001601c5f30a$61be2140$b757a545@Dell2004> <4389394E.5FA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000901c5f31e$780f1530$709cb2d1@TheBlackAdder> I suspect it's the same stuff those of us in California call "Quake Hold" museum putty which is sold at Home Depot in the general adhesives section. It comes in a neutral creme color as well as a similar product which is blue in color. Used to secure fragile valuables to shelves to protect from breakage during an earthquake. Then there's another product called "Museum Putty" which is colorless and translucent, and looking at the container, I see it's also made by the "Quake Hold" company in San Marcos, California. Their web site is http://www.quakehold.com I don't remember where I bought the large 13 oz. container. Cheers, Erich Kern Murrieta, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Where can I buy good quality Mineral Tack? Jeff, What does Home Depot call it? I suspect the average Home Depot employee won't know what I am looking for if I ask for Mineral Tack. Kreigh Jeff Fast wrote: > > Re: Mineral tack. > > They sell the stuff in Home Depot, now. I believe it is the exact same > formulation. > > Jeff Fast > www.jbfminerals.com > (860) 985 - 6321 (USA) > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Nov 27 00:14:06 2005 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Nov 27 00:15:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Privatizing the American West -- fight the PomboAmendment References: <291.5b5747.30b9d675@aol.com> Message-ID: <000d01c5f32a$89bb0bc0$9c9cb2d1@TheBlackAdder> I am not at all sure the Pombo amendment is as bad as it sounds. Pombo's record is one of protecting the rights of private property owners especially miners, which I applaud. Which would you rather deal with, a BLM bureaucrat, the Army Corps of engineers, one of those Park Service employees with a bad attitude, or a private landholder? From some of the stories I've heard about stiff fines or worse for rockhounding and fossil collecting on "public" lands, I'd rather deal with a private owner. My overall impression over the years is that government is a very poor steward of public lands compared with private owners. The upside to privatisation is that it will help pay down the debt and lessen the intrusiveness of the nanny state. If anyone would like to take this off-list, my email address is efkern@earthlink.net Best Regards, Erich Kern ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:17 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Privatizing the American West -- fight the PomboAmendment I am very upset at the almost complete lack of response to my e-mail two weeks ago about this amendment. Please, please call your Senators and make sure they are going to oppose the Pombo amendment when the House bill is considered after Thanksgiving. We may not have much time. This will affect ALL of us who use the national forests and BLM lands for ANY PURPOSE including rockhounding. ACT!!!!!!!!!! Privatizing the American West Published: November 26, 2005 New York Times While lawmakers are in recess, it is worth reflecting on one particular part of the mess they have left behind. Last week, a budget bill scraped through the House, 217 to 215. Democrats and moderate Republicans had already stripped a provision to allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But the House bill left intact an evil trap to be sprung on the American public: Richard Pombo's plan to put a few hundred million acres of publicly owned land up for sale in the American West. Mr. Pombo, Republican of California, is head of the House Resources Committee and has long been determined to privatize as much of the West as he can lay his hands on. His bill would allow the holders of mining claims to buy the land outright instead of leasing it - a substantial revision of the current practice. He argues that his proposal would merely adjust laws and affect only about 360,000 acres where mining claims are currently being developed or explored. But the bill is so vaguely drawn that at least 6 million acres of public land, and possibly as much as 350 million acres, could wind up in the hands of private buyers. These buyers need to express only the intent to develop a mineral claim without any need to demonstrate commercial mining potential. Once the land is bought, it can be developed as the owners see fit. This is a blatant fraud on the American people, expressed in bland legislative legalese. The question is, Who is going to stop it? The bill has to clear a few more hurdles before becoming the law of the land - a House-Senate conference committee and final votes in the House and the Senate. In the best of all possible worlds, the House negotiators would reject the worst aspects of the Senate bill, which authorizes drilling in the Arctic refuge, and the Senate negotiators would reject the worst aspects of the House version, including Mr. Pombo's outrageous raid on the public lands. This is not the long shot it might have seemed as recently as a week ago. Americans have come to understand that America can't drill its way out of dependency on Middle Eastern oil, and that ravaging the Arctic is no substitute for sound energy policy. They also understand that Mr. Pombo's sleight of hand is little more than legislative robbery. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From cscrystals2 at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 04:16:04 2005 From: cscrystals2 at verizon.net (Carolyn Weinberger) Date: Sun Nov 27 04:18:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Privatizing the American West -- fight the PomboAmendment In-Reply-To: <000d01c5f32a$89bb0bc0$9c9cb2d1@TheBlackAdder> References: <291.5b5747.30b9d675@aol.com> <000d01c5f32a$89bb0bc0$9c9cb2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <6896469C-E81F-4D47-B812-484E121352B3@verizon.net> The Resources Committee, headed by Rep. Pombo is also responsible for the Paleo "Protection" bill that was passed by the Senate and sent on to the House. Many, many of us have been successful in fighting this type of legislation. I'm currently been working with another House member who is a rockhound and avid fossil and mineral collector. As of last weekend he told me that he has convinced Pombo NOT to bring the Paleo bill forward. I think we need to tread lightly hear lest we open another door that would ultimately hurt collectors even more. C On Nov 27, 2005, at 3:14 AM, Erich Kern wrote: > > > I am not at all sure the Pombo amendment is as bad as it sounds. > Pombo's record is > one of protecting the rights of private property owners especially > miners, which I > applaud. Which would you rather deal with, a BLM bureaucrat, the > Army Corps of > engineers, one of those Park Service employees with a bad attitude, > or a private > landholder? From some of the stories I've heard about stiff fines > or worse for > rockhounding and fossil collecting on "public" lands, I'd rather > deal with a private > owner. My overall impression over the years is that government is a > very poor > steward of public lands compared with private owners. > > The upside to privatisation is that it will help pay down the debt > and lessen the > intrusiveness of the nanny state. > > If anyone would like to take this off-list, my email address is > efkern@earthlink.net > > Best Regards, > Erich Kern > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:17 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Privatizing the American West -- fight the > PomboAmendment > > > I am very upset at the almost complete lack of response to my e- > mail two > weeks ago about this amendment. Please, please call your Senators > and make sure > they are going to oppose the Pombo amendment when the House bill is > considered after Thanksgiving. We may not have much time. This > will affect ALL of > us who use the national forests and BLM lands for ANY PURPOSE > including > rockhounding. > > ACT!!!!!!!!!! > > > Privatizing the American West > > > > > > Published: November 26, 2005 > New York Times > > While lawmakers are in recess, it is worth reflecting on one > particular part > of the mess they have left behind. Last week, a budget bill scraped > through > the House, 217 to 215. Democrats and moderate Republicans had > already stripped > a provision to allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife > Refuge. But > the House bill left intact an evil trap to be sprung on the > American public: > Richard Pombo's plan to put a few hundred million acres of > publicly owned land > up for sale in the American West. > Mr. Pombo, Republican of California, is head of the House Resources > Committee > and has long been determined to privatize as much of the West as > he can lay > his hands on. His bill would allow the holders of mining claims to > buy the > land outright instead of leasing it - a substantial revision of > the current > practice. He argues that his proposal would merely adjust laws and > affect only > about 360,000 acres where mining claims are currently being > developed or > explored. > But the bill is so vaguely drawn that at least 6 million acres of > public > land, and possibly as much as 350 million acres, could wind up in > the hands of > private buyers. These buyers need to express only the intent to > develop a > mineral claim without any need to demonstrate commercial mining > potential. Once > the land is bought, it can be developed as the owners see fit. This > is a > blatant fraud on the American people, expressed in bland > legislative legalese. The > question is, Who is going to stop it? > The bill has to clear a few more hurdles before becoming the law of > the land > - a House-Senate conference committee and final votes in the House > and the > Senate. In the best of all possible worlds, the House negotiators > would reject > the worst aspects of the Senate bill, which authorizes drilling in > the Arctic > refuge, and the Senate negotiators would reject the worst aspects > of the > House version, including Mr. Pombo's outrageous raid on the public > lands. > This is not the long shot it might have seemed as recently as a > week ago. > Americans have come to understand that America can't drill its way > out of > dependency on Middle Eastern oil, and that ravaging the Arctic is > no substitute > for sound energy policy. They also understand that Mr. Pombo's > sleight of hand > is little more than legislative robbery. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jbf at jbfminerals.com Sun Nov 27 04:42:04 2005 From: jbf at jbfminerals.com (Jeff Fast) Date: Sun Nov 27 04:42:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack questions (was Where can I buy...) References: <438929ED.7C30@Tomaszewski.net><001601c5f30a$61be2140$b757a545@Dell2004> <6.2.1.2.0.20051126183531.024aef20@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <002201c5f34f$f87c7880$b757a545@Dell2004> Kitty, Even the stuff sold as mineral tack will, with time, become a problem. I had a very nice tourmaline from Connecticut sitting in the stuff for ten years or so. When I went to remove it, it was almost rock hard and the feldspar the tourmaline was sitting on actually broke. I know some people have had mineral tack last longer --- I think it depends on weather conditions, lighting, etc. Maybe my halogen dried it out over time. At any rate, it is stuff for holding up posters. Jeff From carroll4 at mindspring.com Sun Nov 27 06:22:23 2005 From: carroll4 at mindspring.com (Claudia Carroll) Date: Sun Nov 27 06:22:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A question about radioactive minerals Message-ID: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> I have got a few samples of the rare earth minerals Bastnasite and Xenotime in my collection. They are small samples but I wanted to make a special holder/box to store them in to appease my wife who knows that they are slightly radioactive. Does anyone have any good ideas on what sort of box and where I might find the supplies to build it? Was thinking a simple lead lined box but not sure where to find lead sheating. You will have to forgive any spelling errors, I am an engineer by trade and as my secretary continuously tells me I can't spell worth diddly. James Carroll --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From buff1 at ptd.net Sun Nov 27 06:37:36 2005 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Sun Nov 27 06:37:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A question about radioactive minerals In-Reply-To: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> References: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4389C4B0.7040102@ptd.net> Two sources come to mind....sometimes the radio pharmacy in your area ( or possibly hospital) may have a few extra containers that are made from lead for the purpose of transporting radio active isotopes for radiologic testing and treatment... the other is just buy a few fishing sinkers and hammer them flat and cut to size.... while I am NOT discrediteding caution, the simple idea of not keeping the specimens within arms reach or just keeping them in the outbuilding or whatever should be sufficient. As, with a lead lined box you can not see the mineral anyway and upon opening the box for viewing you are allowing a concentrated dose of atomized radioactivity to be released. I would be somewhat surprised to find that either of these specimens emits a large amount of radioactivity, however without knowing; anything above background radiation is cause for attention to detail. Claudia Carroll wrote: >I have got a few samples of the rare earth minerals Bastnasite and Xenotime in my collection. They are small samples but I wanted to make a special holder/box to store them in to appease my wife who knows that they are slightly radioactive. > >Does anyone have any good ideas on what sort of box and where I might find the supplies to build it? Was thinking a simple lead lined box but not sure where to find lead sheating. > >You will have to forgive any spelling errors, I am an engineer by trade and as my secretary continuously tells me I can't spell worth diddly. > >James Carroll > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > From jd_lutz at hotmail.com Sun Nov 27 06:37:43 2005 From: jd_lutz at hotmail.com (Dave Lutz) Date: Sun Nov 27 06:37:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Liesegang Message-ID: I am sure many of you have ventured into the Red River Gorge or Natural Bridge areas at some point in your lives. Or actually anywhere else in E. Kentucky there is a sandstone outcropping. In these sandstone lithologies there are very distinctive rust-brown colored iron bands that are almost all hematite. They make the characteristic cross-bedding of the sandstones stand out so well. These are a secondary chemical weathering feature that only protrude into the rock a given average of around three feet. Liesegang is a german word that was penned in Germany by a physicist trying to emulate the process of these bands in a lab setting. My goal is to understand the process behind these bands and what manifests these along the planes in the lithology that they choose. We know for the most part that most of these bands are derived from iron-rich ground water percolating through the sandstones which are very porous. Now why they choose the bedding planes they do, now that is the question at hand! From agesilaus at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 06:49:59 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Nov 27 06:50:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A question about radioactive minerals In-Reply-To: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> References: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> Message-ID: Both of these are so slightly radioactive that any metal box would probably do, get a local machine shop to fabricate an aluminum box. You wife is getting more radiation from sitting in front of a TV or computer than she ever would from both of those. If you have to have lead find, someone who does lost wax casting (check with an art prof at a local school) and have them make a lead box for you. They can melt some fishing sinkers. BK On 11/27/05, Claudia Carroll wrote: > > > I have got a few samples of the rare earth minerals Bastnasite and > Xenotime in my collection. They are small samples but I wanted to make a > special holder/box to store them in to appease my wife who knows that they > are slightly radioactive. > > Does anyone have any good ideas on what sort of box and where I might find > the supplies to build it? Was thinking a simple lead lined box but not sure > where to find lead sheating. > > You will have to forgive any spelling errors, I am an engineer by trade > and as my secretary continuously tells me I can't spell worth diddly. > > James Carroll > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From agesilaus at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 07:01:10 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Nov 27 07:01:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A question about radioactive minerals In-Reply-To: <4389C4B0.7040102@ptd.net> References: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> <4389C4B0.7040102@ptd.net> Message-ID: http://webmineral.com/data/Xenotime-(Yb).shtml and http://webmineral.com/data/Bastnasite-(La).shtml shows that both of these are slightly radioactive with a contact dose of 0.02 mrem/hr of skin contact for a pure 1 gm specimen. They are gamma emitters and would not generate a radioactive gas of any sort. You would be hard pressed to detect any radioactivity at 1 meter for a small specimen. The activity would be at the microrem level. BK On 11/27/05, Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: > > Two sources come to mind....sometimes the radio pharmacy in your area ( > or possibly hospital) may have a few extra containers that are made > from lead for the purpose of transporting radio active isotopes for > radiologic testing and treatment... the other is just buy a few > fishing sinkers and hammer them flat and cut to size.... while I am NOT > discrediteding caution, the simple idea of not keeping the specimens > within arms reach or just keeping them in the outbuilding or whatever > should be sufficient. As, with a lead lined box you can not see the > mineral anyway and upon opening the box for viewing you are allowing a > concentrated dose of atomized radioactivity to be released. I would be > somewhat surprised to find that either of these specimens emits a large > amount of radioactivity, however without knowing; anything above > background radiation is cause for attention to detail. > > > > Claudia Carroll wrote: > > >I have got a few samples of the rare earth minerals Bastnasite and > Xenotime in my collection. They are small samples but I wanted to make a > special holder/box to store them in to appease my wife who knows that they > are slightly radioactive. > > > >Does anyone have any good ideas on what sort of box and where I might > find the supplies to build it? Was thinking a simple lead lined box but not > sure where to find lead sheating. > > > >You will have to forgive any spelling errors, I am an engineer by trade > and as my secretary continuously tells me I can't spell worth diddly. > > > >James Carroll > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > >--- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sun Nov 27 07:02:24 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sun Nov 27 07:02:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Concretions!! Message-ID: <20051127150224.9138.qmail@web34609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: Jim wrote " FYI my own obsession is "concretions". Once again, welcome aboard." Yesterday, driving in the neighborhood, I passed a site where a bulldozer was being used for site prep work on a steep hillside. There against the sedimentary bedrock being exposed was a concretion the size of a 4-door truck cab! Site was beside St Rt 3 here in Lincoln County, WV. Probably just a big round rock, as concretions don't usually have anything interesting in them around here. But it was sure BIG! At the time I wondered how they were going to get it out of their way?! It looks too big for their dozer to move around much... JR --------------------------------- Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lot's of someone's, actually. Try Yahoo! Personals --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 27 07:07:15 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Nov 27 07:07:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where can I buy good quality Mineral Tack? In-Reply-To: <438929ED.7C30@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20051127150715.51188.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> We went through this exercise a few years ago, when David Shannon changed from supplying a blue tack to a white one, and some people didn't like the new stuff. I found the manufacturer, and started negotiations to become a distributor, but abandoned the effort when I learned that it is sold at WalMart. I figured I could never compete with them, and everyone has a WalMart nearby. Incidentally, Shannon Minerals is still selling the white tack. Jim Daly --- Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > My long time supplier of Mineral Tack no longer > carries it. Their > supplier went out of business and they have not been > able to find a > suitable replacement source. > > Good quality Mineral Tack will not affect specimens > while holding them > firmly to a base for years, but remains pliable > enough that it can be > removed, even after years. > > Can anyone recommend a good supplier of Mineral > Tack? > > I'll even consider a bulk purchase if someone knows > who the original > manufacturer is. I suspect it is originally called > something else > because I have seen the same product sold as Mineral > Tack, Mineral Tak, > and Mineral Tac. > > Can anyone help? > > Thanks! > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From gemnance at houston.rr.com Sun Nov 27 07:15:36 2005 From: gemnance at houston.rr.com (Jim Nance) Date: Sun Nov 27 07:15:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack / Museum putty In-Reply-To: <000901c5f31e$780f1530$709cb2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <200511271515.jARFFJB4028961@ms-smtp-05-eri0.texas.rr.com> Hi Erich Thanks for the information on tack. Now if they could invent "Hurricane Hold" for us along the Gulf coast! Jim Nance -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Erich Kern Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:48 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack / Museum putty I suspect it's the same stuff those of us in California call "Quake Hold" museum putty which is sold at Home Depot in the general adhesives section. It comes in a neutral creme color as well as a similar product which is blue in color. Used to secure fragile valuables to shelves to protect from breakage during an earthquake. Then there's another product called "Museum Putty" which is colorless and translucent, and looking at the container, I see it's also made by the "Quake Hold" company in San Marcos, California. Their web site is http://www.quakehold.com I don't remember where I bought the large 13 oz. container. Cheers, Erich Kern Murrieta, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Where can I buy good quality Mineral Tack? Jeff, What does Home Depot call it? I suspect the average Home Depot employee won't know what I am looking for if I ask for Mineral Tack. Kreigh Jeff Fast wrote: > > Re: Mineral tack. > > They sell the stuff in Home Depot, now. I believe it is the exact same > formulation. > > Jeff Fast > www.jbfminerals.com > (860) 985 - 6321 (USA) > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 27 07:22:39 2005 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sun Nov 27 07:22:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Advertisement - Christmas Mineral Sale References: <20050912212052.16687.qmail@web53215.mail.yahoo.com><438908C1.40507@verizon.net> <313701c5f2f1$4b7e0f80$6402a8c0@remains><000d01c5f303$e4aea770$178c4c0c@LarryRush> <319601c5f307$59f164c0$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <001901c5f366$67874820$c6864c0c@LarryRush> Michael: You are so right! But, unless someone makes an outrageous demand, I'll stick with my offer. My material is not that expensive, and I like my audience to be the starting or intermediate collector, since I believe that most dealers are far over-pricing these days anyway! Thanks for the advice.....Larry ========================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schmidt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Advertisement - Christmas Mineral Sale > you might want to add to that: > of equal or lesser value..... > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Rush" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 8:37 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Advertisement - Christmas Mineral Sale > > >> Christmas Shopping Sale- Buy any two minerals from my site, and get one >> more of your choice free..... >> >> Good until December 15.... >> >> Larry Rush >> >> www.ConnRoxMinerals.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Nov 27 09:10:39 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 27 09:08:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A question about radioactive minerals References: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4389E814.7F13@Tomaszewski.net> James, Both are slightly radioactive minerals. Putting them in a plastic box or behind glass in a display cabinet is probably adequate. Lead boxes are usually only needed for dangerously high radioactive substances. If you want you could find a leaded glass container (or have a glass store make one) to gain additional protection but still be able to see the specimens. As with any radioactive specimen, you should probably take the precaution of washing your hands after handling to avoid the risk of accidental ingestion, which can be more damaging. Kreigh Claudia Carroll wrote: > > I have got a few samples of the rare earth minerals Bastnasite and Xenotime in my collection. They are small samples but I wanted to make a special holder/box to store them in to appease my wife who knows that they are slightly radioactive. > > Does anyone have any good ideas on what sort of box and where I might find the supplies to build it? Was thinking a simple lead lined box but not sure where to find lead sheating. > > You will have to forgive any spelling errors, I am an engineer by trade and as my secretary continuously tells me I can't spell worth diddly. > > James Carroll From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Nov 27 09:14:33 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 27 09:12:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A question about radioactive minerals References: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> <4389C4B0.7040102@ptd.net> Message-ID: <4389E8FE.69BE@Tomaszewski.net> Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: > mineral anyway and upon opening the box for viewing you are allowing a > concentrated dose of atomized radioactivity to be released. I would be You only release a concentrated dose if the minerals are radon emitters. Alpha, beta, and gamma emissions do not concentrate when enclosed -- they are adsorbed by the container walls. Kreigh From Jg81638 at aol.com Sun Nov 27 09:25:19 2005 From: Jg81638 at aol.com (Jg81638@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 27 09:25:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Concretions!! more! Message-ID: <1de.48edf2f6.30bb45ff@aol.com> Hi JR re your 11/27 communication about a "large Concretion" in Lincoln C. WV. Since I'm stuck up here in W. Mass. I can't drop by and look at it so I've got a few questions I'd appreciate being answered. 1/ what characteristics made you prefer "concretion" rather than "big round rock"? 2/ what can you tell me about the "sedimentary bedrock" around there, type of formation, formation name etc. 3/ you refer to other concretions in this area in passing, any details of such would be of interest. 4/ Is the shape of this specimen close to spherical? Such as to be unlikely in a rock of this size. 5/ I'd expect that the construction people will have to break it up to move it - if so could you get samples of the surface and interior of a size able to be mailed easily (I'd pick up the cost of such shipping of course - shipping the whole thing would be impractical and my wife wouldn't let me keep it in the front yard anyway!) 6/ a photo showing the specimen would also be appreciated. 7/ FYI some spherical concretions do come in quite large sizes. For instance see NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC MAG August 1969, p295 and July 1965 p142,144. I also have some recollection of seeing a photo of some large mudstone concretions, but I can't at this moment locate the reference. Reports like this aggravate my regret that I'm not physically or financially able to jump into a truck and take off to see/collect when a case like this comes up. But at least I can hear about them. Hooray for e-mail. Jim Groves --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 09:42:12 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Nov 27 09:42:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A question about radioactive minerals In-Reply-To: <4389E814.7F13@Tomaszewski.net> References: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> <4389E814.7F13@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051127072843.041207f8@incoming.verizon.net> I have a friend who puts mildly radioactive pieces under glass domes, the type used to display dolls and collectibles. You can find some online by putting "display domes" into google. Aloha, Kitty At 07:10 AM 11/27/2005, Kreigh wrote: > Putting them in a plastic box or >behind glass in a display cabinet is probably adequate. Lead boxes are >usually only needed for dangerously high radioactive substances. From rgangue at yahoo.com Sun Nov 27 09:54:05 2005 From: rgangue at yahoo.com (Stan Perry) Date: Sun Nov 27 09:54:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A show to benefit the Clement Mineral Museum? In-Reply-To: <009501c5ebe1$068f49f0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <20051127175405.36099.qmail@web54214.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Alan, I am interested in attending. Cheers, Stan --- Alan Goldstein wrote: > I am working with the Clement Mineral Museum in > Marion, Kentucky generating ideas to help the museum > survive. One idea I want to flesh out is a gem, > mineral and fossil show as a museum fundraising > event and to increase their visibility in the rock > hound community. I would like to propose some dates > for a show at Fohs Hall, the community building next > to the Clement Museum. I don't want it to conflict > with others shows in a 4 to 5 hour driving radius of > western Kentucky (places like Nashville, Memphis, > St. Louis, Rolla, Evansville, Indianapolis, > Carbondale, Louisville, Lexington, and Cincinnati). > Unlike shows in major cities, the small town > location requires a lot of participation from people > visiting from around the region. To help bring folks > in, there would be collecting trips to mine dumps in > the area and perhaps coordinating a visit to the > American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare. If anyone can > tell me show dates for any of those cities, I would > appreciate it. > > The organized collecting trips seem to be pretty > popular. I think folks who attended the one held > October 29 - 30 had a good time. I am currently > working with Bill Frazer to have another trip in the > spring. This time the track hoe will concentrate on > the old dumps and vein and not poke around elsewhere > looking for ore in unknown areas. We are also > investigating new sites. (Well, old mines that have > not been dug for fluorite since they closed many > decades ago.) Currently the list includes about a > half-dozen fluorite or zinc mines in Kentucky > fluorspar district. I have not tried to expand into > Hardin Co., IL because there doesn't seem to be an > interest in attracting rock hounds. > > For those not familiar with the itinerary a few > weeks back... We started at the Columbia mine where > we collected galena, smithsonite, quartz, and > fluorite. Folks poked around the Mary Belle mine, > the dumps have been untouched for some 60 to 70 > years. Then we visited the Babb-Barnes mill / mine > (a mixture of local and Mexican spar). On Sunday we > visited the Lafayette mine dumps (the Hutson mine > was also planned but Bill misplaced the key to the > gate.) > > In the spring we hope to include some new sites, > although we will probably only dig the area > associated with the Columbia mine and probably the > nearby Eureka prospects (which has fluorite cubes up > to 1.5" across). Bill opened a buried shaft last > month, so that mine was off-limits. Next time I > think he will move the rock away from the area where > it can be worked in safety. Fluorite crystals can > actually be found in the creek which is usually has > a foot of water in it! We will limit the number of > participants to 30 or less (last time was 36, a bit > too many) and the fee will be in the $30 to $40 > range for the weekend. > > If you can help me (paragraph 1) or are interested > in participating in a collecting trip next spring, > let me know. > > Regards, > Alan Goldstein > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > Stan Perry Our Gangue Minerals www.emineralshow.com Ebay seller ID rgangue e-mail at rgangue@yahoo.com __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From afox at panix.com Sun Nov 27 10:39:42 2005 From: afox at panix.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sun Nov 27 10:39:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Liesegang In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Vernon, UT, 'wonderstone' comes to mind. Though that is a pretty hard, welded vitric to lithic tuff (volcanic, instead of sedimentary). Unfortunately, it only makes a good 'yard rock' or a bookshelf sample; it doesn't look like it will take a polish, and really needs a big sample to be impressive. Have you noted any changes in the intensity of the banding as a function of fracture set orientation? I.E., do some orientations tend to possess greater or lesser degrees of alteration, or does the banding only occur along certain sets? Cheers! a. -- afox at panix dot com || http://www.panix.com/~afox "Pluralitas non est ponda sine neccesitate" "Plurality should not be posited without necessity" -- William of Ockham (1285 - 1349 AD) From jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net Sun Nov 27 10:56:53 2005 From: jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net (Jim) Date: Sun Nov 27 10:55:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A question about radioactive minerals References: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <000e01c5f384$576b4e50$6501a8c0@JimP> Hello James, If you bring up "Mineralogy Database" on Google and go under minerals you can bring up both Xenotime for example and it will tell you the amount of radiation for the sample size. I read an article sometime back that the shielding necessary would depend upon the amount and type of radiation.I will see if I can find it again Try that Jim Prentiss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claudia Carroll" To: "rockhounds" Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 5:22 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] A question about radioactive minerals > > I have got a few samples of the rare earth minerals Bastnasite and Xenotime in my collection. They are small samples but I wanted to make a special holder/box to store them in to appease my wife who knows that they are slightly radioactive. > > Does anyone have any good ideas on what sort of box and where I might find the supplies to build it? Was thinking a simple lead lined box but not sure where to find lead sheating. > > You will have to forgive any spelling errors, I am an engineer by trade and as my secretary continuously tells me I can't spell worth diddly. > > James Carroll > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From kadok at infowest.com Sun Nov 27 11:15:11 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Nov 27 11:15:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051126135632.0247ba98@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <20051127191511.5662C1E3022@alora.infowest.com> How about 1. Fieldspar a battle between two rockhounds over who saw that neat rock first? 2. Tourmarine a boat trip 3. Floorite a new kind of synthetic flooring 4. Sappy hire wow, was it ever dumb to hire him! 5. Dangburite! The one you dropped on your toe 6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! 7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! 7. Call cite a rock phone booth Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 5:17 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational Hi List, I thought maybe with the holiday season upon us it would be a good time to add a lighthearted brain tickling element. Below are the winners of the annual Mensa Invitational--- It is really worth taking time to read carefully---be sure to check the spelling and maybe even try saying the word to yourself. I especially like # 11 (with extra credit), and as an astronomer, Bill likes # 5, # 15, and #20 . Numbers 19 - 22 are ones that Kreigh added when I sent this to him off-list I'd like to propose that List members try their hand at the game with terms involving our hobby. Kreigh's entries are at the bottom. Aloha, Kitty The Washington Post's Mensa Invitational once again asked readers to take any word from the dictionary, alter it by adding, subtracting, or changing one letter, and supply a new definition. Here are this year's {2005} winners: 1. Cashtration (n.): The act of buying a house, which renders the subject financially impotent for an indefinite period of time. 2. Ignoranus: A person who's both stupid and an asshole. 3. Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you realize it was your money to start with. 4. Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly. 5. Bozone (n.): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future. 6. Foreploy: Any misrepresentation about yourself for the purpose of getting laid. 7. Giraffiti: Vandalism spray-painted very, very high. 8. Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it. 9. Inoculatte: To take coffee intravenously when you are running late. 10. Hipatitis: Terminal coolness. 11. Osteopornosis: A degenerate disease. (This one got extra credit.) 12. Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like, a serious bummer. 13. Decafalon (n.): The grueling event of getting through the day consuming only things that are good for you. 14. Glibido: All talk and no action. 15. Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly. 16. Arachnoleptic fit (n.): The frantic dance performed just after you've accidentally walked through a spider web. 17. Beelzebug (n.): Satan in the form of a mosquito, that gets into your bedroom at three in the morning and cannot be cast out. 18. Caterpallor (n.): The color you turn after finding half a worm in the fruit you're eating. 19. Actint -- the preferred color for stage lighting. 20. Teleslope -- the hill that observatories are typically built on. 21. Internot -- when your email account is down. 22. Painic -- what you do when you hurt yourself badly. ***************** ROCKHOUNDS INVITATIONAL: 1. Boraxe -- a field hand tool used to take core samples. 2. Diamont -- the prongs on an engagement ring. 3. Bouldert -- the dust that is left when you accidently drop a large fragile specimen on the floor. 4. Ultraviolent Light -- the sparks seen when cutting quartz or agate with a diamond saw OR the flash seen when a meteorite strikes the earth. 5. Vulcano -- a Spanish rubber cane. 6. Hematote -- the bag they collect blood in when you donate at the Red Cross. 7. Topadz -- a hand tool for taking off surface coatings on rock. 8. Rock Prick -- the shard that flew off the boulder you were breaking and stuck in your arm. 9. Petrafried -- getting too close to hot lava. 10. Techtonic -- a favorite drink of computer programmers. 11. Shardness Test -- hitting a rock with a hammer. 12. Hardnest -- a bird's home made of gravel. 13. Rock Slaw -- a salad with high mineral content. 14. Rock Stumbler -- what you stubbed your toe on getting to a collecting site. 15. Crock Club -- a group of slow cooks. 16. Diabaste -- using two kinds of sauce when cooking meat. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rico at ricosweb.com Sun Nov 27 11:28:35 2005 From: rico at ricosweb.com (Rich Allen) Date: Sun Nov 27 11:30:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Liesegang In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051127122835.584888@richlaptop> The wonderstone site near Vernon, UT is small, but there is a wide variety of harness available there. The stuff I've collected there with the tight, colorful bands takes a very nice polish using diamond pads. The stuff that is more reddish with wider bands doesn't take a polish very well at all. Rich Allen On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 13:39:42 -0500 (EST), Aaron Fox wrote: > Vernon, UT, 'wonderstone' comes to mind. Though that is a pretty hard, > welded vitric to lithic tuff (volcanic, instead of sedimentary). > Unfortunately, it only makes a good 'yard rock' or a bookshelf sample; it > doesn't look like it will take a polish, and really needs a big sample to > be impressive. From kahako at verizon.net Sun Nov 27 11:36:23 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Nov 27 11:36:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational In-Reply-To: <20051127191511.5662C1E3022@alora.infowest.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20051126135632.0247ba98@incoming.verizon.net> <20051127191511.5662C1E3022@alora.infowest.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051127093458.0412f0d0@incoming.verizon.net> Excellent, Margaret! Thank you! Aloha, Kitty At 09:15 AM 11/27/2005, you wrote: >How about > >1. Fieldspar a battle between two rockhounds over who saw that neat rock >first? >2. Tourmarine a boat trip > >3. Floorite a new kind of synthetic flooring > >4. Sappy hire wow, was it ever dumb to hire him! > >5. Dangburite! The one you dropped on your toe > >6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! > >7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! > >7. Call cite a rock phone booth > >Margaret From jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net Sun Nov 27 13:49:12 2005 From: jimbob58 at pobox.mtaonline.net (Jim) Date: Sun Nov 27 13:47:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Member To The Group References: Message-ID: <005701c5f39c$67f340d0$6501a8c0@JimP> Hello Dave, Welcome to the list. I too am new to the list as a few days ago. I have already benefited from the exchanges. Hope you do also. Jim Prentiss ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Lutz" To: Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 6:54 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] New Member To The Group > Hello everyone, > > I am new to the group. I found the group while doing a search for the > Faircloth and Monitor(formerly Chinn) mines in Central Kentucky. I am a > senior geological sciences major at the University of Kentucky. My primary > areas of study are economic geology, fluvial geomorphology, speleology, and > paleontology. I am about to begin my graduate work in the geological > sciences and physical geography. My area of concentration is going to > either be geochemistry of liesegang bands of the Pennsylvanian Breathitt > Sandstones of E. Kentucky or economic geology pertaining to fluid fracture > fillings in Central Kentucky fault structures. > > Dave Lutz > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From JScully216 at aol.com Sun Nov 27 13:59:45 2005 From: JScully216 at aol.com (JScully216@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 27 14:00:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A Response to my 11/26 E-Mail on the Pombo Amendment Message-ID: <68.62240341.30bb8651@aol.com> In a message dated 11/27/2005 8:11:25 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, JScully216 writes: Hello all Below is a response from a friend on my e-mail of yesterday on the Pombo amendment. You can find some Q&A's on this subject from the House Committee of Resources (Chaired by Pombo) at the link in his e-mail below. I still have major reservations as expressed in the reponse to my friend In a message dated 11/27/2005 8:02:45 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, JScully216 writes: Mike: Thanks for the info. It make me feel a bit better, however, I still have some questions. The main one, and not one answered in the Q&As, is why the amendment in the first place. In other words, who wants it? There are some technical concerns. The first has to do with #1 and #2 below. Why have they moved the requirement that a valuable mineral exist in order to obtain a claim? This technically means that anyone can put a claim on any parcel of forest service or BLM land without proof of a mineral be there. So theoretically, all federal lands not Parks or wilderness can be put under claim. This is a highly mischievous change. Given BLM's very tight staff budget, it would be almost impossible for them to follow up to prove that the claim should now not be turned into a patent. This would mean that I or any corporate interest could start claiming land and then moving to own it through the patent process. This was an unnecessary change in the law, and one that portends great problems. Regarding fiction #3 below. What exactly is the another avenue for mining companies to obtain patents for lands they are mining referred to here? Why is it needed. Who wants it? There is a general issue with all of this, even if these changes are as benign as the Q&As state. That is the issue of access to public lands. Owners of claims own ONLY the minerals in the land -- they cannot cut off access of the public to other land uses such as camping, fishing, hiking, grazing, wood gathering, hunting, and many other uses. Owners of patented land own all right to the land and can prevent access to or transport across their lands. If new patches of private land are created across our public lands, the public might will find their access blocked even if much of these lands remain in public lands. The lands of many uses would cease to be such or at least potentially curtailed. Mike, changes with such huge potentials should not be secluded in giant bills but should have to meet the daylight of hearings and public scrutiny. Even is the Q&A's are totally correct, this change is too large a change in public policy regarding our national lands to be dealt with in this manner. John S. #1 FICTION: Unlike the old 1872 Mining Law, which required claimants to prove that a valuable mineral existed in order to obtain a patent, the House Resources Committee language eliminates that requirement. FACT: The language does not eliminate the requirement. The amended language merely moves the ?Law of Discovery/Prudent Man Test? from one section of the law into the patenting section. (See page 29, lines 16-18) #2 FICTION: Unlike the old 1872 Mining Law, which required claimants to prove that a valuable mineral existed in order to obtain a patent, the House Resources Committee language eliminates that requirement. FACT: The language does not eliminate the requirement. The amended language merely moves the ?Law of Discovery/Prudent Man Test? from one section of the law into the patenting section. (See page 29, lines 16-18) #3 FICTION: Sec. 6202 of the bill eliminates the patenting requirement for the claimant to prove a valuable mineral deposit, thereby allowing anyone to purchase title to lands with or without valuable minerals. FACT: Sec. 6202, the ?Alternate Valuable Mineral Deposit Criteria? updates a 133 year old law by setting up another avenue for mining companies to obtain patents for lands they are mining, while still possessing all the requirements identified under the ?law of discovery.? The individual must have a valid mining claim, on which they are conducting mining activities and making a profit by selling those minerals. If the holder/holders of the claim have filed publicly with the Securities Exchange Commission (SEC) the ?proven and probable? reserves for the claim, then they may apply for patenting under the language. (Publicly filing with the SEC the company means proving the existence of a valuable mineral.) In a message dated 11/26/2005 3:55:40 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, jdorsey6224@msn.com writes: John, As usual the New York Times and Democrat bloggers have vastly overstated the effect of proposed legislation. Here is a link to the Resources Committee website that provides an explanation of the legislation and clarifies fact from fiction. _http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/issues/emr/mining/fact&fiction_budgetrec.htm_ (http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/issues/emr/mining/fact&fiction_budgetrec.htm) Webb told me you were going back to DC and might make a poker game. Did you make it? I am planning to play on December 9th. How is New Mexico? We love Telluride. Mike Dorsey ----------------- Forwarded Message: Subj: Re: From Scully -- Privatizing the American West -- the Pombo Amendment Date: 11/27/2005 8:02:45 A.M. Mountain Standard Time From: _JScully216_ (mailto:JScully216) To: _jdorsey6224@msn.com_ (mailto:jdorsey6224@msn.com) Hi, Mike I did get back to DC last week and had a game with the guys. It was fun. I spent two days with Jim Webb and one with Kohlmuss, then on to PA to visit my father and his wife. I now back home in cold Las Vegas. Yes, I do love NM -- it was the best move of my life and I'm really enjoying living here. I have an old diary farm without the land or cows (but with 7 chickens). The house is a 125 year old adobe, and there is a barn and a huge and very old (hand hewn logs) garage where I now house all my stock, tools, etc. Thanks for the info. It make me feel a bit better, however, I still have some questions. The main one, and not one answered in the Q&As, is why the amendment in the first place. In other words, who wants it? There are some technical concerns. The first has to do with #1 and #2 below. Why have they moved the requirement that a valuable mineral exist in order to obtain a claim? This technically means that anyone can put a claim on any parcel of forest service or BLM land without proof of a mineral be there. So theoretically, all federal lands not Parks or wilderness can be put under claim. This is a highly mischievous change. Given BLM's very tight staff budget, it would be almost impossible for them to follow up to prove that the claim should now not be turned into a patent. This would mean that I or any corporate interest could start claiming land and then moving to own it through the patent process. This was an unnecessary change in the law, and one that portends great problems. Regarding fiction #3 below. What exactly is the another avenue for mining companies to obtain patents for lands they are mining referred to here? Why is it needed. Who wants it? There is a general issue with all of this, even if these changes are as benign as the Q&As state. That is the issue of access to public lands. Owners of claims own ONLY the minerals in the land -- they cannot cut off access of the public to other land uses such as camping, fishing, hiking, grazing, wood gathering, hunting, and many other uses. Owners of patented land own all right to the land and can prevent access to or transport across their lands. If new patches of private land are created across our public lands, the public might will find their access blocked even if much of these lands remain in public lands. The lands of many uses would cease to be such or at least potentially curtailed. Mike, changes with such huge potentials should not be secluded in giant bills but should have to meet the daylight of hearings and public scrutiny. Even is the Q&A's are totally correct, this change is too large a change in public policy regarding our national lands to be dealt with in this manner. John S. #1 FICTION: Unlike the old 1872 Mining Law, which required claimants to prove that a valuable mineral existed in order to obtain a patent, the House Resources Committee language eliminates that requirement. FACT: The language does not eliminate the requirement. The amended language merely moves the ?Law of Discovery/Prudent Man Test? from one section of the law into the patenting section. (See page 29, lines 16-18) #2 FICTION: Unlike the old 1872 Mining Law, which required claimants to prove that a valuable mineral existed in order to obtain a patent, the House Resources Committee language eliminates that requirement. FACT: The language does not eliminate the requirement. The amended language merely moves the ?Law of Discovery/Prudent Man Test? from one section of the law into the patenting section. (See page 29, lines 16-18) #3 FICTION: Sec. 6202 of the bill eliminates the patenting requirement for the claimant to prove a valuable mineral deposit, thereby allowing anyone to purchase title to lands with or without valuable minerals. FACT: Sec. 6202, the ?Alternate Valuable Mineral Deposit Criteria? updates a 133 year old law by setting up another avenue for mining companies to obtain patents for lands they are mining, while still possessing all the requirements identified under the ?law of discovery.? The individual must have a valid mining claim, on which they are conducting mining activities and making a profit by selling those minerals. If the holder/holders of the claim have filed publicly with the Securities Exchange Commission (SEC) the ?proven and probable? reserves for the claim, then they may apply for patenting under the language. (Publicly filing with the SEC the company means proving the existence of a valuable mineral.) In a message dated 11/26/2005 3:55:40 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, jdorsey6224@msn.com writes: John, As usual the New York Times and Democrat bloggers have vastly overstated the effect of proposed legislation. Here is a link to the Resources Committee website that provides an explanation of the legislation and clarifies fact from fiction. _http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/issues/emr/mining/fact&fiction_budgetrec.htm_ (http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/issues/emr/mining/fact&fiction_budgetrec.htm) Webb told me you were going back to DC and might make a poker game. Did you make it? I am planning to play on December 9th. How is New Mexico? We love Telluride. Mike Dorsey --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html message/rfc822 --- From jsmall47 at earthlink.net Sun Nov 27 14:10:42 2005 From: jsmall47 at earthlink.net (Jim Small) Date: Sun Nov 27 14:09:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Concretions!! more! In-Reply-To: <200511271855.jARItG15003570@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200511271855.jARItG15003570@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20051127165815.0255ce70@mail.earthlink.net> Reports like this aggravate my regret that I'm not physically or financially able to jump into a truck and take off to see/collect when a case like this comes up. But at least I can hear about them. Hooray for e-mail. Jim Groves Jim - I know of at least one super-size concretion a great deal closer to you. It is located just off the main trail of the Cayuga Nature Center, which is a few miles north of Ithaca, NY on the west shore of Cayuga Lake. That particular concretion has weathered out of the shale bedrock at that location. It is in a small creek bed, immediately adjacent to the footbridge over which the main trail in the Nature Center passes. The concretion is approximately the size of a small sedan automobile. It is the largest of its sort which I have seen, although the area between Cayuga and Seneca Lakes is well known for concretions. In some of the gorges and along some of the cliffs along both lakes the concretions weather out of the shale and fall. When opened they may be solid mudstone, but often they resemble septarian nodules with white to transparent calcite fillings, sometimes accompanied by small quartz druses and isolated crystals similar to Herkimer "diamonds". Many owners of lakeshore cottages along the southeast shore of Seneca Lake (the area most densely supplied with concretions) have one or more rows of opened concretions as driveway markers. KOR, Jim Small Small Wonders Lapidary formerly of Trumansburg, NY From betdav97 at aol.com Sun Nov 27 16:08:18 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Sun Nov 27 16:08:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Concretions!! more! In-Reply-To: <1de.48edf2f6.30bb45ff@aol.com> References: <1de.48edf2f6.30bb45ff@aol.com> Message-ID: <8C7C1C6F8825AB0-B4-B8F3@mblk-r23.sysops.aol.com> Hi Jim, I can send you all the concretions you want, from my area in West Virginia. They are a very poor mans geode for the most part. But they do contain quartz, pyrite, barite, sphalerite, galena, and if are really lucky cacoxanite. In western Maryland the concretions from the clay mines also contain irridescent siderite, and the quartz is sometimes sceptered. Plus Maryland has better barite. Our concretions locally come from the shales in roadcuts and coal mines. The Devonian shales in eastern West Virginia, produce a concretion very much like the sceptarian geodes from Utah. They will also take a good polish. I can ship ones that are still unbroken, break them yourself. But they are heavey since they are siderite; in some areas of West Virginia, they were used in the manufacture of pig iron. We have several old iron mines locally, dating back to the 1840's. One nearby location has nice nodules or concretions that take a very good polish, and look like agate on the inside. Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Nov 27 17:26:45 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Nov 27 17:26:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Privatizing the American West -- fight the PomboAmendment References: <291.5b5747.30b9d675@aol.com> Message-ID: <00b501c5f3ba$cc11ea80$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I forwarded the note to our club e-mail distributor. I didn't feel it necessary to notify the group, but I understand your frustration. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 10:17 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Privatizing the American West -- fight the PomboAmendment >I am very upset at the almost complete lack of response to my e-mail two > weeks ago about this amendment. Please, please call your Senators and > make sure > they are going to oppose the Pombo amendment when the House bill is > considered after Thanksgiving. We may not have much time. This will > affect ALL of > us who use the national forests and BLM lands for ANY PURPOSE including > rockhounding. > > ACT!!!!!!!!!! > > > Privatizing the American West > > > > > > Published: November 26, 2005 > New York Times > > While lawmakers are in recess, it is worth reflecting on one particular > part > of the mess they have left behind. Last week, a budget bill scraped > through > the House, 217 to 215. Democrats and moderate Republicans had already > stripped > a provision to allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. But > the House bill left intact an evil trap to be sprung on the American > public: > Richard Pombo's plan to put a few hundred million acres of publicly owned > land > up for sale in the American West. > Mr. Pombo, Republican of California, is head of the House Resources > Committee > and has long been determined to privatize as much of the West as he can > lay > his hands on. His bill would allow the holders of mining claims to buy > the > land outright instead of leasing it - a substantial revision of the > current > practice. He argues that his proposal would merely adjust laws and affect > only > about 360,000 acres where mining claims are currently being developed or > explored. > But the bill is so vaguely drawn that at least 6 million acres of public > land, and possibly as much as 350 million acres, could wind up in the > hands of > private buyers. These buyers need to express only the intent to develop a > mineral claim without any need to demonstrate commercial mining potential. > Once > the land is bought, it can be developed as the owners see fit. This is a > blatant fraud on the American people, expressed in bland legislative > legalese. The > question is, Who is going to stop it? > The bill has to clear a few more hurdles before becoming the law of the > land > - a House-Senate conference committee and final votes in the House and the > Senate. In the best of all possible worlds, the House negotiators would > reject > the worst aspects of the Senate bill, which authorizes drilling in the > Arctic > refuge, and the Senate negotiators would reject the worst aspects of the > House version, including Mr. Pombo's outrageous raid on the public lands. > This is not the long shot it might have seemed as recently as a week ago. > Americans have come to understand that America can't drill its way out of > dependency on Middle Eastern oil, and that ravaging the Arctic is no > substitute > for sound energy policy. They also understand that Mr. Pombo's sleight of > hand > is little more than legislative robbery. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rocknate at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 19:46:38 2005 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sun Nov 27 19:46:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: List Challenge In-Reply-To: <20051126113138.24968.qmail@webmachine101.com> References: <20051126113138.24968.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: Steve, Kreigh, et al Here is my list of three specimens, representing my primary interests. 1) a miniature specimen of light purple fluorite on molybdenite from Leisner's Shaft, Wolfram Camp, near Dimbulah, Queensland, Australia - this represents my fascination with unusual mineral associations with fluorite 2) a miniature specimen of green-colored powellite (colored by heulandite inclusions) with heulandite from Nasik, India - this represents my interest in fluorescent minerals, expecially well-crystalized ones 3) a small cabinet-sized plate of self-collected red-orange grossular from the V.A.G. quarry in Lowell / Eden Mills, Vermont - this represents my interest in field collecting and one of my favorite collecting localities. Like Kreigh (and Steve) I would also cheat and put a 4th specimen out for display. It would be a tiny self-collected orange wulfenite nestled in a bed of light green pyromorphite from the Manhan River Lead Mine near Loudville, MA. This represents my more recent interest in micros (as well as my passion for field collecting). There you have it - fluorite associations, fluorescent minerals, micros and whatever I can self-collect - no wonder my basement and garage is filled with rocks! Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 11/26/05, magnet wrote: > Hi Kreigh and list > > Three specimens is a real tough one. Like you, I have a systematic collection and use most of my collection as a reference collection. > > However, if I HAD to choose, they would all be self-collected... > > 1. Crocoite. As you would expect from my website, I have a "few" crocoites. The one that I would keep is not the most spectacular, nor the largest, but one that I saved from almost certain destruction. A few years ago, I was in the adit at the Dundas Extended Mine (Dundas, Tasmania) operated by Mike and Eleanor Phelan, good friends of mine. The roof of the adit is not all that much above the average person's head (why remove rock if you don't have to!) and as I looked up at one point, I noticed a small crocoite specimen with terminated crystals about 1cm long hanging down. How it hadn't already been broken off, I don't know. I gently levered off a small piece of rock with the crocoite crystals intact. > > 2. Quartz. My favourite mineral by far. One specimen in particular is my absolute favourite. A smoky quartz from Mt Bischoff (Waratah, Tasmania) with small purple fluorite and brown siderite crystals. This was dug out of material dumped from a trench. The thing that makes it more special is that the day that I found it, I wasn't planning to be at Bischoff but at nearby Magnet Mine (where you can find crocoite). I was heading towards the Magnet turnoff with my family, about 13km from Waratah, and just before we got there, we were stopped by stewards for a leg of the Australasian Rally Car Championships. They had the road closed. I was pretty angry because there was no sign back at Waratah saying that you couldn't get through. We returned, had lunch, and my wife said "why don't you have a bit of a dig at Bischoff?". The rest is history! > > 3. The toughest decision. Gold. Before I got interested in minerals (didn't really know that they existed!), I did a bit of panning at Warrandyte (Melbourne, Victoria), at the site of one of two gold finds that started the Victorian gold rush in the 1850s. I still have a small nugget about 2mm across (I did say small!) that I panned. It is shaped like a wombat's head. > > But...I have to include one find, not a mineral but related. A few year's back, I travelled over to England to see my mother who was terminally ill. She died about four days after I arrived but I was to stay for another three weeks to look after my father. Through a series of circumstances, I was able to visit some mine sites in Cumbria. At one of these, I found a clog iron (bit like a small horseshoe) that the early miners wore on the heels of their clogs (wooden shoes). What made this special was that it was found on a dump from a mine that had been closed for almost 150 years. Well-rusted, but intact, and a reminder of the time spent with my mother. This sits at the front of my cabinet. > > Regards > Steve From rocknate at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 20:05:56 2005 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sun Nov 27 20:06:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A show to benefit the Clement Mineral Museum? In-Reply-To: <009501c5ebe1$068f49f0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <009501c5ebe1$068f49f0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Alan, As the furthest-traveling participant in the recent October field trip, I'd like to publicly thank you for arranging these trips. I had a great time collecting and it was a real treat to visit both the Clement Museum and the American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare, IL. I do have two recommendations for you to consider. A) I did not feel that there were too many participants in the last field trip so I would recommend setting the capacity limit in the 35 to 40 range and keeping the cost as modest as possible (consistent with providing reasonable support to the museum). B) I would personally be interested in collecting localities in Hardin Co., IL as well as in KY. I know that there may be permission issues to resolve but some of my best collecting was at the one locality we visited there. I think the lower number of people making the trek into IL was more due to it being the Sunday afternoon activity when many people needed to head for home. It was also interesting to visit the American Fluorite Museum as well as the Clement Museum and the ferry ride across the Ohio River at Cave-in-Rock was a unique experience. Whatever you decide to do please keep me informed of your plans as I would be interested in going again. Best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 11/17/05, Alan Goldstein wrote: > I am working with the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, Kentucky generating ideas to help the museum survive. One idea I want to flesh out is a gem, mineral and fossil show as a museum fundraising event and to increase their visibility in the rock hound community. I would like to propose some dates for a show at Fohs Hall, the community building next to the Clement Museum. I don't want it to conflict with others shows in a 4 to 5 hour driving radius of western Kentucky (places like Nashville, Memphis, St. Louis, Rolla, Evansville, Indianapolis, Carbondale, Louisville, Lexington, and Cincinnati). Unlike shows in major cities, the small town location requires a lot of participation from people visiting from around the region. To help bring folks in, there would be collecting trips to mine dumps in the area and perhaps coordinating a visit to the American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare. If anyone can tell me show dates for any of those cities, I would appreciate it. > > The organized collecting trips seem to be pretty popular. I think folks who attended the one held October 29 - 30 had a good time. I am currently working with Bill Frazer to have another trip in the spring. This time the track hoe will concentrate on the old dumps and vein and not poke around elsewhere looking for ore in unknown areas. We are also investigating new sites. (Well, old mines that have not been dug for fluorite since they closed many decades ago.) Currently the list includes about a half-dozen fluorite or zinc mines in Kentucky fluorspar district. I have not tried to expand into Hardin Co., IL because there doesn't seem to be an interest in attracting rock hounds. > > For those not familiar with the itinerary a few weeks back... We started at the Columbia mine where we collected galena, smithsonite, quartz, and fluorite. Folks poked around the Mary Belle mine, the dumps have been untouched for some 60 to 70 years. Then we visited the Babb-Barnes mill / mine (a mixture of local and Mexican spar). On Sunday we visited the Lafayette mine dumps (the Hutson mine was also planned but Bill misplaced the key to the gate.) > > In the spring we hope to include some new sites, although we will probably only dig the area associated with the Columbia mine and probably the nearby Eureka prospects (which has fluorite cubes up to 1.5" across). Bill opened a buried shaft last month, so that mine was off-limits. Next time I think he will move the rock away from the area where it can be worked in safety. Fluorite crystals can actually be found in the creek which is usually has a foot of water in it! We will limit the number of participants to 30 or less (last time was 36, a bit too many) and the fee will be in the $30 to $40 range for the weekend. > > If you can help me (paragraph 1) or are interested in participating in a collecting trip next spring, let me know. > > Regards, > Alan Goldstein > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Nov 27 20:14:53 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 27 20:14:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational References: <20051127191511.5662C1E3022@alora.infowest.com> Message-ID: <438A840C.AD2@Tomaszewski.net> A few alternate definitions, and a few more submissions... Kreigh Margaret Malm wrote: > > How about > 6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! Part of a fork for eating snake meat > > 7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! What you do at the fork in the path to the collecting site > > 7. Call cite a rock phone booth The detail part of your long distance phone bill that lists all calls ============ Tremorlite -- a small earthquake Varisit -- What an ADDHD kid does in a chair Pitch blonde -- the opposit of pitch black hair Anthrax lite -- the mild fever you get after an anthrax vaccination Pyrlite -- starting a fire for a cremation Croclite -- just a little BS From jabac at hal-pc.org Sun Nov 27 20:24:38 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Sun Nov 27 20:20:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational In-Reply-To: <20051127191511.5662C1E3022@alora.infowest.com> References: <20051127191511.5662C1E3022@alora.infowest.com> Message-ID: <438A8686.9080502@hal-pc.org> Margaret Malm wrote: >How about > >1. Fieldspar a battle between two rockhounds over who saw that neat rock >first? >2. Tourmarine a boat trip > >3. Floorite a new kind of synthetic flooring > >4. Sappy hire wow, was it ever dumb to hire him! > >5. Dangburite! The one you dropped on your toe > >6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! > >7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! > >7. Call cite a rock phone booth > >Margaret > > Good job, Margaret! And: 1a. Gyrolousite. Crystalline habit: three-dimensional dendrites. 2a. Diddenite. Gemstone variety often used for worry stones. 3a. Canburnite. Named after a town in old Connecticutt. Location now lost. (Note: subject to spontaneous combustion. Handle like Sodium metal.) 4a. Cubelite Used to provide pink office walls. 5a. Q'artz Arabian silica. (Pronounced "cartz"). 6a. Kiderite. Fool's iron. Often associated with Lyrite, Fool's nickel. 7a. Golframite. Used to make very hard drivers. 8a. Mockhound. A ten o'clock rockhound. 9a. Curbonitites. A class of rock used in highway construction. 9b. Javalava. A volcanic rock. The original source of mud coffee. john From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Nov 27 20:52:54 2005 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Nov 27 20:52:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational References: <20051127191511.5662C1E3022@alora.infowest.com> <438A8686.9080502@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <000901c5f3d7$98f81300$7494b2d1@TheBlackAdder> This one from my wife Laurie: Pirates looking for fool's gold: "Pyrites of the Caribbean" Erich Kern ----- Original Message ----- From: "jabac" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational Margaret Malm wrote: >How about > >1. Fieldspar a battle between two rockhounds over who saw that neat rock >first? >2. Tourmarine a boat trip > >3. Floorite a new kind of synthetic flooring > >4. Sappy hire wow, was it ever dumb to hire him! > >5. Dangburite! The one you dropped on your toe > >6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! > >7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! > >7. Call cite a rock phone booth > >Margaret > > Good job, Margaret! And: 1a. Gyrolousite. Crystalline habit: three-dimensional dendrites. 2a. Diddenite. Gemstone variety often used for worry stones. 3a. Canburnite. Named after a town in old Connecticutt. Location now lost. (Note: subject to spontaneous combustion. Handle like Sodium metal.) 4a. Cubelite Used to provide pink office walls. 5a. Q'artz Arabian silica. (Pronounced "cartz"). 6a. Kiderite. Fool's iron. Often associated with Lyrite, Fool's nickel. 7a. Golframite. Used to make very hard drivers. 8a. Mockhound. A ten o'clock rockhound. 9a. Curbonitites. A class of rock used in highway construction. 9b. Javalava. A volcanic rock. The original source of mud coffee. john _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From staroleum at yahoo.com Sun Nov 27 21:46:06 2005 From: staroleum at yahoo.com (Staroleum) Date: Sun Nov 27 21:46:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Soap in rock tumblers. In-Reply-To: <200511271855.jARItG16003570@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20051128054606.46052.qmail@web30513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, I recently bought a rock tumbler and have begun tumbling stones I pick up along the Columbia River. I've heard that after the final polishing phase, some people tumble their rocks in soap to "burnish" them. Can anyone tell be anything more about this, for instance; what might be a good kind of soap to use, and in what quantity? Thank you, Scott --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From magnet at crocoite.com Mon Nov 28 00:58:10 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Mon Nov 28 00:58:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List Challenge Message-ID: <20051128085810.31546.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi Nate Looks like fluorite may be an early leader...2 mentions. And Australia gets 4! Regards Steve From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Mon Nov 28 01:18:01 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Mon Nov 28 01:18:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Soap in rock tumblers. References: <20051128054606.46052.qmail@web30513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001c01c5f3fc$a20e6e10$645fe842@Titans> Hello Scott, That's right on, I use dawn and just a little water, when they are slipping over one another quite well that is enough, it don't take that much to do the job of a wet looking finish, good luck and have fun. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Staroleum" To: Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:46 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Soap in rock tumblers. > Hello, > I recently bought a rock tumbler and have begun tumbling stones I pick up > along the Columbia River. I've heard that after the final polishing phase, > some people tumble their rocks in soap to "burnish" them. > Can anyone tell be anything more about this, for instance; what might be a > good kind of soap to use, and in what quantity? > Thank you, > Scott > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From buff1 at ptd.net Mon Nov 28 04:47:14 2005 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Mon Nov 28 04:47:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A question about radioactive minerals In-Reply-To: <4389E8FE.69BE@Tomaszewski.net> References: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> <4389C4B0.7040102@ptd.net> <4389E8FE.69BE@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <438AFC52.9080003@ptd.net> Understood, I was definately erroneous in making that comment and should have never posted it to the group. Although between you and me when have you ever seen a relativley "pure" radioactive?? If the chemical composition were textbook pure I would hands down agree. For whatever reason, the few rare earth containing radioactives that I have upon opening the container have a real spike in radioactivity as monitored by my Aware Electronics model RM-60 pro micro roentgen radiation monitor. Perhaps atomized was a poor choice of words. But again, I shall again seek the refuge of anonymity Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: > > >>mineral anyway and upon opening the box for viewing you are allowing a >>concentrated dose of atomized radioactivity to be released. I would be >> >> > >You only release a concentrated dose if the minerals are radon emitters. >Alpha, beta, and gamma emissions do not concentrate when enclosed -- >they are adsorbed by the container walls. > >Kreigh >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pchil at botsnet.bw Mon Nov 28 07:22:34 2005 From: pchil at botsnet.bw (P.C. Hulley) Date: Mon Nov 28 07:22:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SPAMMER References: <1ef.47982dc8.30b79f43@aol.com><00a901c5f14c$fa9b2fd0$12b4010a@warren> <6.2.0.14.2.20051124222400.022cc928@mail.spiritone.com> Message-ID: <00cb01bf1a82$f31e8ec0$6e48a7a8@hulley> I have also received from him as well Hildagarde Hulley Botswana. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Fisher To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] SPAMMER > No, he harvested the emails from people who _posted_ to this list. I > complained to him, to no avail, and then complained to his ISP; the spams > finally stopped. > > At 03:15 PM 11/24/2005, you wrote: > >I suspect it's not from the list itself (that is, neither of those e-mail > >addresses are list members, and I've never received one) but out of the > >list archives, or from another list rockhounds list. (John thinks he might > >have seen one from a Yahoo "Mineral Collectors" list or something like > >that, but he hasn't from the drizzle list.) > > > >While the archives obscure the e-mail addresses from 'bots (but not from > >humans - they are translated as fred at flinstone.com, with the word "at" > >replacing the @ sign) if someone has used a reply that includes the e-mail > >address of the person they are replying to, that is not obscured. > > > >We'll be moving the archives shortly (and adding the old archives back > >into the mix) and I will see about eliminating e-mail addresses from those. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Julie > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 2:57 PM > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] SPAMMER > > > > > >> > >>Yes, he's gleaned e-mails from the list..... > >> > >>Dan > >> > >>In a message dated 11/24/2005 5:39:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >>MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: > >> > >>3 or 4 times a month I get a spam from _rcarlini@aliceposta.it_ > >>(mailto:rcarlini@aliceposta.it) representing > >>_www.mineralsvillage.com_ (http://www.mineralsvillage.com) . Apparently > >>they > >>copy and use email address off the drizzle lists. > >>After emailing them several times to delete me from their spam lists...I > >>now > >>receive spam copies addressed to _mystichorse6@aol.com_ > >>(mailto:mystichorse6@aol.com) and then forwarded to my email. > >> > >>Has anyone else had spam problems from R. Carlini ??? > >> > >>Timm > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >>multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >>--- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >>Subscription Services: > >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Nov 28 07:38:11 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Nov 28 07:38:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051127093458.0412f0d0@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: Hi Kitty, Aha! Playtime.... My favorite time of day! Naturally, I have a slight disadvantage as a Dutch speaking planet dweller but I'll give it a go anyway... Didn't have time to read them all so please remove the plagiarisms yourself. Chapter one: AS IS LIE_BIG_ITE... when little white lies won't help. Chapter two: add 1 or 2 letters (Additions are in red bold) * Any of you folks got cats? Try feeding them KITKAT_ITE * The ultimate terrorist war-cry: KILL_ALL_AITE * A MARGARITA is a KOKTAIL_ITE (see next chapter) * RICH_ELITE: the better part of town * RICH_PETITE: little rich French girl * SABENA_ITE : is now Brussels Airlines Chapter three: change a letter * NOT_A_KITE: NOVAKITE that doesn't fly. * SIMPHONITE: SIMPSONITE with a musical twist * TUBY or not TUBY, that is the question... In the case of RUBY; not TUBY... It's a variety name, no a mineral ;-))) * FUTILE : TiO2 against better judgment. * A MARGARITA is a COCKTAIL (see previous chapter) * PLAGIACLASE : a mineral that bears suspiciously strong resemblance to plagioclase * * BUZZITE : bazzite with a pushbutton Chapter four: omit a letter (between ( ) ) * SA(n)TANAITE: namesake of Salman Rushdie... Satanaitic Verses??? Chapter five: switch letters or syllables * TACL : use of talc in rough sports like rugby or football * HAMSTRINGITE : form of STRINGHAMITE that may keep Justine Hennin off the tennis courts for a season or so. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox Verzonden: zondag 27 november 2005 20:36 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational Excellent, Margaret! Thank you! Aloha, Kitty At 09:15 AM 11/27/2005, you wrote: >How about > >1. Fieldspar a battle between two rockhounds over who saw that neat rock >first? >2. Tourmarine a boat trip > >3. Floorite a new kind of synthetic flooring > >4. Sappy hire wow, was it ever dumb to hire him! > >5. Dangburite! The one you dropped on your toe > >6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! > >7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! > >7. Call cite a rock phone booth > >Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds << Bestand: RE_ [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational.txt >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From danielz at acmenet.net Mon Nov 28 07:47:08 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Mon Nov 28 07:47:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lortone tumblers (NOT an ad) Message-ID: <000501c5f432$ff526820$6401a8c0@M1Garand> As most of you know, we're retiring here at Many Facets. We sold out of Lortone tumblers about a month ago. However I still get a lot of queries on them - two phone calls from out of state this morning, for example. Since the most knowledgeable and enthusiastic people are on this list... If there is a stocking Lortone dealer who would like me to refer these calls to you, please send me your contact info (address, phone, email) by email off-list. -dan z- Many Facets Rock Shop, Albany, NY From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 28 09:40:44 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Nov 28 09:40:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <20051128174044.41345.qmail@web34312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'll be posting this month's update to the Sauktown Sales price list in a few hours. The listing is a hodge-podge of different species, mostly uncommon. (At least, they're new to my collection). Only a few are in very short supply this time, so the chance of your being disappointed is less. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com orders@sauktown.com __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From jennifer at sunriseinstitute.org Mon Nov 28 10:37:22 2005 From: jennifer at sunriseinstitute.org (jennifer isham) Date: Mon Nov 28 10:37:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Drilled stones In-Reply-To: <20051128174044.41345.qmail@web34312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi - Am wondering if there's anyone on the list (USA based) who could drill holes in some small stones I have, and what the price would be to do this. I'm looking at needing about 100 small flat pebbles. Am happy to discuss details with whomever contacts me to discuss. Email me off-list at jennifer@sunriseinstitute.org or call me, 773-472-7221 which is Chicago. Thanks much. jennifer From kadok at infowest.com Mon Nov 28 11:08:04 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Nov 28 11:08:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational In-Reply-To: <438A840C.AD2@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20051128190802.88E5A1E3084@alora.infowest.com> Very good, Kreigh! Margaret >A few alternate definitions, and a few more submissions... >Kreigh Margaret Malm wrote: > > How about > 6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! Part of a fork for eating snake meat > > 7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! What you do at the fork in the path to the collecting site > > 7. Call cite a rock phone booth The detail part of your long distance phone bill that lists all calls ============ Tremorlite -- a small earthquake Varisit -- What an ADDHD kid does in a chair Pitch blonde -- the opposit of pitch black hair Anthrax lite -- the mild fever you get after an anthrax vaccination Pyrlite -- starting a fire for a cremation Croclite -- just a little BS _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Nov 28 11:28:30 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Nov 28 11:28:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational In-Reply-To: <000901c5f3d7$98f81300$7494b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: COOL !!! You all know a picking table? But what would a "dicking table" be, except perhaps a bit risqu?? Who has it? Marc_as_it_e When I hit my thumb with my hammer I_KAI_TE (do dogs go "kaiet" in America too when you step on their paws?) Do minerals throw away their habit when they loose their faith? Kitty, you sure started a mad mineral name-frenzy... Cheersite Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Erich Kern Verzonden: maandag 28 november 2005 5:53 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational This one from my wife Laurie: Pirates looking for fool's gold: "Pyrites of the Caribbean" Erich Kern ----- Original Message ----- From: "jabac" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational Margaret Malm wrote: >How about > >1. Fieldspar a battle between two rockhounds over who saw that neat rock >first? >2. Tourmarine a boat trip > >3. Floorite a new kind of synthetic flooring > >4. Sappy hire wow, was it ever dumb to hire him! > >5. Dangburite! The one you dropped on your toe > >6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! > >7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! > >7. Call cite a rock phone booth > >Margaret > > Good job, Margaret! And: 1a. Gyrolousite. Crystalline habit: three-dimensional dendrites. 2a. Diddenite. Gemstone variety often used for worry stones. 3a. Canburnite. Named after a town in old Connecticutt. Location now lost. (Note: subject to spontaneous combustion. Handle like Sodium metal.) 4a. Cubelite Used to provide pink office walls. 5a. Q'artz Arabian silica. (Pronounced "cartz"). 6a. Kiderite. Fool's iron. Often associated with Lyrite, Fool's nickel. 7a. Golframite. Used to make very hard drivers. 8a. Mockhound. A ten o'clock rockhound. 9a. Curbonitites. A class of rock used in highway construction. 9b. Javalava. A volcanic rock. The original source of mud coffee. john _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Mon Nov 28 12:50:49 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Mon Nov 28 12:48:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational References: <20051128190802.88E5A1E3084@alora.infowest.com> Message-ID: <000501c5f45d$6a6b9b20$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Here is a few: Gutentite: a virgin Hornsfelt: Pamplona pain Natrolite: a real blond Sodalite: sugar free drink Basalt: too much seasoning Biotite: impenetrable chaparral Betafite: pugilist wager Cummingtonite: Christmas eve, sorry you with a dirty mind Dolomite:sleepy tick Harmotome:bookworm Rhyolite: watered down whisky Tarbuttite: one who sits on a extremely hot pavement Topaz: Peruvian hair piece Turquoise: Gooble Gooble ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 11:08 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational > Very good, Kreigh! > Margaret > > > >A few alternate definitions, and a few more submissions... > > >Kreigh > > > Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > How about > > > 6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! > > Part of a fork for eating snake meat > > > > > 7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! > > What you do at the fork in the path to the collecting site > > > > > 7. Call cite a rock phone booth > > The detail part of your long distance phone bill that lists all calls > > ============ > > Tremorlite -- a small earthquake > > Varisit -- What an ADDHD kid does in a chair > > Pitch blonde -- the opposit of pitch black hair > > Anthrax lite -- the mild fever you get after an anthrax vaccination > > Pyrlite -- starting a fire for a cremation > > Croclite -- just a little BS > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jpjunk at mc.net Mon Nov 28 12:58:25 2005 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Mon Nov 28 13:02:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A show to benefit the Clement Mineral Museum? In-Reply-To: References: <009501c5ebe1$068f49f0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Alan, I would like to add a very heartfelt thank you for organizing the Marion trip and second the comments expressed by Mr. Martin. Not only was the collecting very rewarding, but the mix of people and their mutual helpfulness made it a very pleasant and interesting visit. Your interest in supporting the museum is also a very good idea and I hope we can get a number of clubs behind it. Please also include me for the spring trip. Thanks again, John Junkroski On Nov 27, 2005, at 10:05 PM, Nathan Martin wrote: > Alan, > > As the furthest-traveling participant in the recent October field > trip, I'd like to publicly thank you for arranging these trips. I had > a great time collecting and it was a real treat to visit both the > Clement Museum and the American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare, IL. I > do have two recommendations for you to consider. > > A) I did not feel that there were too many participants in the last > field trip so I would recommend setting the capacity limit in the 35 > to 40 range and keeping the cost as modest as possible (consistent > with providing reasonable support to the museum). > > B) I would personally be interested in collecting localities in Hardin > Co., IL as well as in KY. I know that there may be permission issues > to resolve but some of my best collecting was at the one locality we > visited there. I think the lower number of people making the trek > into IL was more due to it being the Sunday afternoon activity when > many people needed to head for home. It was also interesting to visit > the American Fluorite Museum as well as the Clement Museum and the > ferry ride across the Ohio River at Cave-in-Rock was a unique > experience. > > Whatever you decide to do please keep me informed of your plans as I > would be interested in going again. > > Best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > On 11/17/05, Alan Goldstein wrote: > >> I am working with the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, Kentucky >> generating ideas to help the museum survive. One idea I want to >> flesh out is a gem, mineral and fossil show as a museum >> fundraising event and to increase their visibility in the rock >> hound community. I would ... SNIP From rockhounds at adelphia.net Mon Nov 28 13:13:21 2005 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Mon Nov 28 13:08:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Soap in rock tumblers. In-Reply-To: <20051128054606.46052.qmail@web30513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601c5f460$921ed8a0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Scott We use Ivory soap flakes. 8 tablespoons in a 4# tumbler. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Staroleum Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:46 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Soap in rock tumblers. Hello, I recently bought a rock tumbler and have begun tumbling stones I pick up along the Columbia River. I've heard that after the final polishing phase, some people tumble their rocks in soap to "burnish" them. Can anyone tell be anything more about this, for instance; what might be a good kind of soap to use, and in what quantity? Thank you, Scott --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jr50wv at yahoo.com Mon Nov 28 13:53:34 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Nov 28 13:53:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] sllightly radioactive samples Message-ID: <20051128215334.90551.qmail@web34601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: Regarding slightly radioactive samples, I've about decided that putting them on a small metal plate (of almost any metal) and inverting a lead glass over them is about the best you can do. I have a little display dome with some meta-torbernite inside, and it seems to cut the radiation by about 90% according to my Geiger counter. (Is that Geiger or Gieger? Google votes for geiger...) I don't even use a metal base, just the glass dome. A lead glass shotglass, or a mason jar, or a wine glass with the bottom cut off and ground smooth would all work. Just my idea of seeing the rock and cutting down the exposure. Of course, the container (any container) will probably have a higher proportion of radon than would be good to huff!! JR in WV --------------------------------- Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Try Yahoo! Personals --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Nov 28 15:04:33 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Nov 28 15:04:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A question about radioactive minerals In-Reply-To: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> Message-ID: I too am an engineer. I was always good at spelling in school, but I managed to grow up among friends. We recently had some post on this list concerning spelling as it is influenced by different cultures. Glenn From: "Claudia Carroll" <carroll4@mindspring.com>  A question about radioactive minerals ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ MSN Premium brings together everything you need on the Internet in 1 place, including PC security! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From agesilaus at gmail.com Mon Nov 28 15:07:04 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Nov 28 15:07:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Soap in rock tumblers. In-Reply-To: <000601c5f460$921ed8a0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> References: <20051128054606.46052.qmail@web30513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000601c5f460$921ed8a0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: ivory flakes work, if you can't find the flakes just buy a bar of ivory hand soap and cut it into slivers. BK On 11/28/05, Kelly Hanson wrote: > > Scott > We use Ivory soap flakes. 8 tablespoons in a 4# tumbler. > Kelly > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Staroleum > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:46 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Soap in rock tumblers. > > > Hello, > I recently bought a rock tumbler and have begun tumbling stones I pick up > along the Columbia River. I've heard that after the final polishing phase, > some people tumble their rocks in soap to "burnish" them. Can anyone tell > be anything more about this, for instance; what might be a good kind of > soap > to use, and in what quantity? Thank you, > Scott > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Mon Nov 28 15:38:53 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Mon Nov 28 15:36:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational References: <20051128190802.88E5A1E3084@alora.infowest.com> <000501c5f45d$6a6b9b20$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000c01c5f474$e4e195a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Alright, I will redo per directions. [:-( Hornsfelt: Pamplona pain Naturolite: a real blond Bahsalt: too much seasoning Betafites: pugilist wagers Doldomite: lazy tick Harmatome: bookworm Ryeolite: watered down whisky Tarbuttites: those who sit hot gooey pavements Toupaz: Peruvian hair pieces Turqnoise: gooble gooble ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 12:50 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational > Here is a few: > > Gutentite: a virgin > Hornsfelt: Pamplona pain > Natrolite: a real blond > Sodalite: sugar free drink > Basalt: too much seasoning > Biotite: impenetrable chaparral > Betafite: pugilist wager > Cummingtonite: Christmas eve, sorry you with a dirty mind > Dolomite:sleepy tick > Harmotome:bookworm > Rhyolite: watered down whisky > Tarbuttite: one who sits on a extremely hot pavement > Topaz: Peruvian hair piece > Turquoise: Gooble Gooble > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margaret Malm" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 11:08 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational > > > > Very good, Kreigh! > > Margaret > > > > > > >A few alternate definitions, and a few more submissions... > > > > >Kreigh > > > > > > Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > > > How about > > > > > 6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! > > > > Part of a fork for eating snake meat > > > > > > > > 7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! > > > > What you do at the fork in the path to the collecting site > > > > > > > > 7. Call cite a rock phone booth > > > > The detail part of your long distance phone bill that lists all calls > > > > ============ > > > > Tremorlite -- a small earthquake > > > > Varisit -- What an ADDHD kid does in a chair > > > > Pitch blonde -- the opposit of pitch black hair > > > > Anthrax lite -- the mild fever you get after an anthrax vaccination > > > > Pyrlite -- starting a fire for a cremation > > > > Croclite -- just a little BS > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Nov 28 16:26:49 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Nov 28 16:26:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mobile Rock and Gem Show Report Day 3 Message-ID: Another fitting final day for a really good show. Many folks returned to purchase that special item or items they saw in the first 2 days. Our 2 raffles' lucky tickets were drawn by 2 very cute very young little ladies. The winners were ecstatic! Prizes included a carved fiber optic seahorse, a blue topaz ring, an amethyst cathedral, black onyx earrings, a malachite bracelet, and even some cash. And lots more doorprizes were awarded. All the dealers I talked with were well pleased and did better than last year. At least one dealer new to this show plans to return in '06. Our daughter, son-in-law, 4 more grandkids, and several friends came out to the show, as did family and friends of most of the members. And of course Jeanette and I overspent our budget a bit more...a few more slabs, a mosasaur vertabra... Unfortunately Jeanette's day was cut short by an acute gallbladder attack and she and I spent the night in the hospital. She is better now and home tonight but faces more tests to confirm the dianosis before surgically removing the painful little thing.  Glenn ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ 3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Nov 28 16:37:40 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Nov 28 16:37:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorspar district trip and other comments References: <009501c5ebe1$068f49f0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <008601c5f47d$1b4d3060$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I am working with Bill Frazer to set up another trip to the fluorspar district in the spring. This time Bill assures me he will focus the track hoe in known mineralized area instead of experimenting. I've asked him to continue working along the Columbia mine vein and spread the dumps that are in the trees south of where we were. I've also asked him to dig up the Eureka prospects and move rock away from the creek and the old shafts. The Eureka has a localized bedding replacement deposit instead of a vein and produces nice fluorite crystals. You can check out mindat.org, I've posted pictures from the trip, particularly the Columbia, Eureka, Babb-Barnes mill, Lafayette, and the Robinson-Lasher (which I visited after the Babb-Barnes). The last one is not a collecting site -- yet. I am working with Bill and the Clement Museum to consider opening it as a tour mine. It utilizes an incline to reach the ore body rather than a shaft. The ore body is largely intact, producing sphalerite and fluorite. According to Bill, during its brief existence, some beautiful mineral specimens came out. Over time, our trips will explore other mines to which Bill has the mineral rights. Of course, there can never be guarentees of high quality TN to Cabinet-size specimens, but micro-mount collectors will always have a field day!!! With regards to Hardin County collecting, I'll see what I can do. I can tell you that discussing the moving of some mine dumps to the American Fluorite Museum did not get high marks with my primary contact, Eric Livingston. I have not talked with Don Hastie about buying fluorite to be dumped elsewhere, but Bill Frazer has indicated that the Clement Museum would be glad to get a dump truck load. I will also seek permission to collect at the Rosiclare dump since that was a problem last month. At this point, I am more interested in strengthening the Kentucky collecting than venturing into uncharted southern Illinois terristory. We can probably collect at the Heavy Media mill site, but pickings are pretty slim. I know of a number of mine sites in Hardin and Pope Counties, but don't have time to do the field work necessary to get the contacts. If anyone else wants to pick up the ball with Illinois collecting, I'll be glad for any help! Now that Nate and John have spoken, I will be happy to take names of folks interested. You can wait until I have something more concrete (like a date!). If 35 to 40 people can be accomodated, I will be happy to set those limits. By the way, I do want to continue the informal swap we organized. I thought it was fun! I hope the Clement Museum can organize a show in 2006. I haven't gone through the calendar yet to see what the best weekend would be, but if you are interested in setting up, let me know and I'll compile a contact list. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Junkroski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A show to benefit the Clement Mineral Museum? > Alan, > > I would like to add a very heartfelt thank you for organizing the Marion > trip > and second the comments expressed by Mr. Martin. Not only was the > collecting > very rewarding, but the mix of people and their mutual helpfulness made > it a very > pleasant and interesting visit. > > Your interest in supporting the museum is also a very good idea and I > hope we > can get a number of clubs behind it. > > Please also include me for the spring trip. > > Thanks again, > > John Junkroski > > > On Nov 27, 2005, at 10:05 PM, Nathan Martin wrote: > >> Alan, >> >> As the furthest-traveling participant in the recent October field >> trip, I'd like to publicly thank you for arranging these trips. I had >> a great time collecting and it was a real treat to visit both the >> Clement Museum and the American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare, IL. I >> do have two recommendations for you to consider. >> >> A) I did not feel that there were too many participants in the last >> field trip so I would recommend setting the capacity limit in the 35 >> to 40 range and keeping the cost as modest as possible (consistent >> with providing reasonable support to the museum). >> >> B) I would personally be interested in collecting localities in Hardin >> Co., IL as well as in KY. I know that there may be permission issues >> to resolve but some of my best collecting was at the one locality we >> visited there. I think the lower number of people making the trek >> into IL was more due to it being the Sunday afternoon activity when >> many people needed to head for home. It was also interesting to visit >> the American Fluorite Museum as well as the Clement Museum and the >> ferry ride across the Ohio River at Cave-in-Rock was a unique >> experience. >> >> Whatever you decide to do please keep me informed of your plans as I >> would be interested in going again. >> >> Best regards, >> Nate Martin >> Lexington, MA >> >> On 11/17/05, Alan Goldstein wrote: >> >>> I am working with the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, Kentucky >>> generating ideas to help the museum survive. One idea I want to flesh >>> out is a gem, mineral and fossil show as a museum fundraising event and >>> to increase their visibility in the rock hound community. I would ... > > SNIP > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Mon Nov 28 16:41:03 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Nov 28 16:41:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorspar district trip and other comments In-Reply-To: <008601c5f47d$1b4d3060$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <009501c5ebe1$068f49f0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> <008601c5f47d$1b4d3060$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: I'm interested Alan, depending on the date of course. BK On 11/28/05, Alan Goldstein wrote: > > I am working with Bill Frazer to set up another trip to the fluorspar > district in the spring. This time Bill assures me he will focus the track > hoe in known mineralized area instead of experimenting. I've asked him to > continue working along the Columbia mine vein and spread the dumps that > are > in the trees south of where we were. I've also asked him to dig up the > Eureka prospects and move rock away from the creek and the old shafts. The > Eureka has a localized bedding replacement deposit instead of a vein and > produces nice fluorite crystals. You can check out mindat.org, I've posted > pictures from the trip, particularly the Columbia, Eureka, Babb-Barnes > mill, > Lafayette, and the Robinson-Lasher (which I visited after the > Babb-Barnes). > > The last one is not a collecting site -- yet. I am working with Bill and > the > Clement Museum to consider opening it as a tour mine. It utilizes an > incline > to reach the ore body rather than a shaft. The ore body is largely intact, > producing sphalerite and fluorite. According to Bill, during its brief > existence, some beautiful mineral specimens came out. > > Over time, our trips will explore other mines to which Bill has the > mineral > rights. Of course, there can never be guarentees of high quality TN to > Cabinet-size specimens, but micro-mount collectors will always have a > field > day!!! > > With regards to Hardin County collecting, I'll see what I can do. I can > tell > you that discussing the moving of some mine dumps to the American Fluorite > Museum did not get high marks with my primary contact, Eric Livingston. I > have not talked with Don Hastie about buying fluorite to be dumped > elsewhere, but Bill Frazer has indicated that the Clement Museum would be > glad to get a dump truck load. I will also seek permission to collect at > the > Rosiclare dump since that was a problem last month. At this point, I am > more > interested in strengthening the Kentucky collecting than venturing into > uncharted southern Illinois terristory. We can probably collect at the > Heavy > Media mill site, but pickings are pretty slim. I know of a number of mine > sites in Hardin and Pope Counties, but don't have time to do the field > work > necessary to get the contacts. If anyone else wants to pick up the ball > with > Illinois collecting, I'll be glad for any help! > > Now that Nate and John have spoken, I will be happy to take names of folks > interested. You can wait until I have something more concrete (like a > date!). If 35 to 40 people can be accomodated, I will be happy to set > those > limits. By the way, I do want to continue the informal swap we organized. > I > thought it was fun! > > I hope the Clement Museum can organize a show in 2006. I haven't gone > through the calendar yet to see what the best weekend would be, but if you > are interested in setting up, let me know and I'll compile a contact list. > > Alan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Junkroski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 3:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] A show to benefit the Clement Mineral Museum? > > > > Alan, > > > > I would like to add a very heartfelt thank you for > organizing the Marion > > trip > > and second the comments expressed by Mr. Martin. Not only was the > > collecting > > very rewarding, but the mix of people and their mutual helpfulness made > > it a very > > pleasant and interesting visit. > > > > Your interest in supporting the museum is also a very good idea and I > > hope we > > can get a number of clubs behind it. > > > > Please also include me for the spring trip. > > > > Thanks again, > > > > John Junkroski > > > > > > On Nov 27, 2005, at 10:05 PM, Nathan Martin wrote: > > > >> Alan, > >> > >> As the furthest-traveling participant in the recent October field > >> trip, I'd like to publicly thank you for arranging these trips. I had > >> a great time collecting and it was a real treat to visit both the > >> Clement Museum and the American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare, IL. I > >> do have two recommendations for you to consider. > >> > >> A) I did not feel that there were too many participants in the last > >> field trip so I would recommend setting the capacity limit in the 35 > >> to 40 range and keeping the cost as modest as possible (consistent > >> with providing reasonable support to the museum). > >> > >> B) I would personally be interested in collecting localities in Hardin > >> Co., IL as well as in KY. I know that there may be permission issues > >> to resolve but some of my best collecting was at the one locality we > >> visited there. I think the lower number of people making the trek > >> into IL was more due to it being the Sunday afternoon activity when > >> many people needed to head for home. It was also interesting to visit > >> the American Fluorite Museum as well as the Clement Museum and the > >> ferry ride across the Ohio River at Cave-in-Rock was a unique > >> experience. > >> > >> Whatever you decide to do please keep me informed of your plans as I > >> would be interested in going again. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Nate Martin > >> Lexington, MA > >> > >> On 11/17/05, Alan Goldstein wrote: > >> > >>> I am working with the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, Kentucky > >>> generating ideas to help the museum survive. One idea I want to flesh > >>> out is a gem, mineral and fossil show as a museum fundraising event > and > >>> to increase their visibility in the rock hound community. I would ... > > > > SNIP > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 17:40:04 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Nov 28 17:40:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Shadows of Venus (slightly OT) Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051128153631.024b4108@incoming.verizon.net> This is a bit off-topic, but I know many on this list are interested in astronomy and photography. Following is a link to a story about photographing shadows cast by Venus. The time to look for this is just after sunset, between now and December 3rd, when the moon will begin to interfere with the opportunity. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/28nov_venusshadows.htm?list762633 Aloha, Bill --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Nov 28 16:06:53 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Nov 28 18:09:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mobile Rock and Gem Show Report Day 3 References: Message-ID: <004d01c5f478$d2d5b180$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Glenn, Thanks for the report(s) and our best wishes to Jeanette. John From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Nov 28 19:29:51 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Nov 28 19:29:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Shadows of Venus (slightly OT) References: <6.2.1.2.0.20051128153631.024b4108@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <002501c5f495$289d5070$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I noticed a shadow from Venus at several Texas Star Party's in the early to mid 1980's. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Shadows of Venus (slightly OT) > This is a bit off-topic, but I know many on this list are interested in > astronomy and photography. Following is a link to a story about > photographing shadows cast by Venus. The time to look for this is just > after sunset, between now and December 3rd, when the moon will begin to > interfere with the opportunity. > > http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/28nov_venusshadows.htm?list762633 > > Aloha, Bill > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Jg81638 at aol.com Mon Nov 28 20:15:31 2005 From: Jg81638 at aol.com (Jg81638@aol.com) Date: Mon Nov 28 20:15:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Concretions!!more! &even more! Message-ID: <7d.75efcf5f.30bd2fe3@aol.com> Hi Dave the concretions you mention sound interesting even if they do sound like geodes. My studies suggest that there's a lot of overlap between concretions, geodes, sceptarian nodules and such-like stuff. The only definition that I've found for concretions (in a Geological dictionary) run as follows: Concretion. A nodular or irregular concentration of certain authigenic constituents of sedimentary rocks and tuffs: developed by the localized deposition of material from solution, generally about a central nucleus. Harder than enclosing rock. My own definition based on samples that I have collected (sand and mud calcites, sand iron sulphides and sand hematites) goes thisaway: Concretion. A distinctively shaped concentration of two or more mineral species in an intimate admixture such that one of the minerals can be considered the 'cement' binding the other(s) together. Said concentration usually occurring prior to the burial and consolidation of the matrix in which it is found or from which it has subsequently been eroded. Characteristic shapes include near perfect spheres, joined spheres, two or more in number, "sand spikes' and spheres showing regular concentric interior structures of the cement mineral. and that definition is subject to further modification as I inspect more samples. Which brings me to point -- I'd like to have a couple of representative samples from your area -- sell or swap? Drop me a line. Jim Groves jg81638@aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Nov 28 20:22:44 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Nov 28 20:22:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A question about radioactive minerals References: <410-2200511027142223605@mindspring.com> <4389C4B0.7040102@ptd.net> <4389E8FE.69BE@Tomaszewski.net> <438AFC52.9080003@ptd.net> Message-ID: <438BD78D.5B20@Tomaszewski.net> Dennis, You make a good point -- I agree I don't have many pure specimens (just one small sample of purified 'yellow cake'), but I've got some hot crystals -- Radon is a good possibility in any container. A second possibility is dust that might be released as the container is opened. The dust could get closer to the detector and also create a spike. Thank you for making me rethink this. Kreigh Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: > > Understood, I was definately erroneous in making that comment and should > have never posted it to the group. Although between you and me when have > you ever seen a relativley "pure" radioactive?? If the chemical > composition were textbook pure I would hands down agree. For whatever > reason, the few rare earth containing radioactives that I have upon > opening the container have a real spike in radioactivity as monitored by > my Aware Electronics model RM-60 pro micro roentgen radiation monitor. > Perhaps atomized was a poor choice of words. > But again, I shall again seek the refuge of anonymity > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > >Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: > > > > > >>mineral anyway and upon opening the box for viewing you are allowing a > >>concentrated dose of atomized radioactivity to be released. I would be > >> > >> > > > >You only release a concentrated dose if the minerals are radon emitters. > >Alpha, beta, and gamma emissions do not concentrate when enclosed -- > >they are adsorbed by the container walls. > > > >Kreigh > >_______________________________________________ From kahako at verizon.net Mon Nov 28 20:34:20 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Nov 28 20:34:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List Challenge In-Reply-To: <20051126113138.24968.qmail@webmachine101.com> References: <20051126113138.24968.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051128155323.04759488@incoming.verizon.net> I originally told Kreigh off-list that I wasn't able to choose three favorites to represent our collection because it is too diverse and mixed up. But I did finally come up with three categories, and now, the most representative specimens: 1. Bill and I both feel the favorite segment of our collection is the fluorescent minerals, and my favorite of those is a sphere that my mother bought from Edwin Skidmore of Mountainside, New Jersey, in about 1949. It is 7cm in diameter, mixed calcite and willemite (naturally, since the material came from Franklin) so that under SW UV light it looks a bit like a globe of some planet with red oceans and green continents and islands. When you spin it clockwise with the light at the right, the slight phosphorescence carries enough of the light for a fraction of a second that the sphere appears translucent (spin it the other direction and it does not, because the phosphorescence travels to the side away from you). My father made a wood dish for it with a little hollow in the bottom that keeps it in place as it spins. Every time I look at it I remember visiting (and buying from) Ed Skidmore, and clambering around the Franklin dumps at night as a little kid. Thus the piece not only represents the beauty of our fluorescent collection, but also the pleasant memories of childhood rockhounding. 2. Another aspect of our collection is what I call the "Gee Whiz" factor. I like pieces that when I show them to kids (and some adults) they say, "Wow! How can a rock be like that?!!" They can be as simple as magnetite which will pick up a paper clip, or a piece of natural chalk or graphite you can write with, to a pyritized ammonite, or some ulexite "TV Rock." But my favorite is a specimen of palygorskite "Mountain Leather" on calcite, from Metaline Falls, Washington. The palygorskite is pale, light blue-white, and as thin and soft as a gossamer-like silk scarf. It is so light it flutters when you wiggle it or blow on it, and silky soft to the touch. The matrix of pale blue calcite crystals is about 5cm across, and an equal-sized segment of palygorskite appears stuck to one side and drapes down like a miniature curtain. We got this from a dealer at the "Gemboree" in Bancroft, Ontario. 3. The remainder of our collection is just "pretty stuff." If it makes us smile, we love it. We keep our collection in several display cases around the house so we (and visitors) can pause and admire them any time of day. My favorite at the moment (and it may change tomorrow or next week) is a piece made up primarily of fluorite cubes about 1cm across, 10 of them clustered together. They are nearly transparent purple-gray, and inside each cube is a bit of barite in the form of a white Maltese cross. You can turn the specimen and see the crosses in 3-D from all sides. (This piece has a "Gee Whiz" quality too, and it is also mildly fluorescent, so it fits in all three categories.) I bought it from an on-line dealer. Finally, like previous people to respond to this challenge, I'd add a 4th piece. It represents our island paradise. We collected it here near (but not in, of course) the Hawaii Volcanoes National Park. It's a small---about 3cm long---piece of iridescent lava that seems to be in the shape of a porpoise or dolphin. (These sea mammals are particularly important to Hawaiian mythology, and we see them off the shore occasionally every year.) When you hold it in light, this little fellow glitters with patches of brilliant gold, pink, green, turquoise and indigo. (It doesn't fluoresce, of course, but it is pretty stuff, and it does make kids say: "Wow," so it fits in two categories above.) Aloha, Kitty From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Nov 28 20:35:12 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Nov 28 20:35:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Soap in rock tumblers. References: <20051128054606.46052.qmail@web30513.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <438BDA79.5B6E@Tomaszewski.net> Scott, I used to use just a scoop of Tide and water, similar in quantity to a grit load. But I've found I have better results with just over a half scoop of just about any laundry soap, plus just over a half scoop of sawdust, and a little extra water. I only run it 2 to 6 hours. Note that I only give one or two light rinses to the polish before moving on to burnishing so that some polish does remain; normally I run a half hour of just water after every stage with a good rinse before moving on. Kreigh Staroleum wrote: > > Hello, > I recently bought a rock tumbler and have begun tumbling stones I pick up along the Columbia River. I've heard that after the final polishing phase, some people tumble their rocks in soap to "burnish" them. > Can anyone tell be anything more about this, for instance; what might be a good kind of soap to use, and in what quantity? > Thank you, > Scott > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Nov 28 20:44:02 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Nov 28 20:43:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Antarctic Island Erupts under the Ice Message-ID: <438BDC89.1BC4@Tomaszewski.net> I wish they had better pictures. I wonder if fire and ice make different minerals... http://www.nature.com/news/2005/051121/full/051121-11.html Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Nov 28 21:13:19 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Nov 28 21:13:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational References: Message-ID: <438BE363.BBC@Tomaszewski.net> Paxel -- the peace of mind that comes from knowing the stolen Moon Rocks were recovered A 'dicking table' is a hotspot at Tucson where you buy specimens of dickthomsonnenite Fool's Fold -- the cash you get from selling Pyrite Foglite -- the normal slight confusion on any Internet Discussion List Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > COOL !!! > > You all know a picking table? But what would a "dicking table" be, except > perhaps a bit risqu?? > > Who has it? Marc_as_it_e > > When I hit my thumb with my hammer I_KAI_TE (do dogs go "kaiet" in America > too when you step on their paws?) > > Do minerals throw away their habit when they loose their faith? > > Kitty, you sure started a mad mineral name-frenzy... > > Cheersite > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Erich Kern > Verzonden: maandag 28 november 2005 5:53 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational > > This one from my wife Laurie: > > Pirates looking for fool's gold: > > "Pyrites of the Caribbean" > > Erich Kern > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jabac" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational > > Margaret Malm wrote: > > >How about > > > >1. Fieldspar a battle between two rockhounds over who saw that neat rock > >first? > >2. Tourmarine a boat trip > > > >3. Floorite a new kind of synthetic flooring > > > >4. Sappy hire wow, was it ever dumb to hire him! > > > >5. Dangburite! The one you dropped on your toe > > > >6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! > > > >7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! > > > >7. Call cite a rock phone booth > > > >Margaret > > > > > > Good job, Margaret! > > And: > > 1a. Gyrolousite. Crystalline habit: three-dimensional dendrites. > > 2a. Diddenite. Gemstone variety often used for worry stones. > > 3a. Canburnite. Named after a town in old Connecticutt. Location > now lost. > (Note: subject to spontaneous combustion. > Handle like > Sodium metal.) > > 4a. Cubelite Used to provide pink office walls. > > 5a. Q'artz Arabian silica. (Pronounced "cartz"). > > 6a. Kiderite. Fool's iron. Often associated with Lyrite, > Fool's nickel. > > 7a. Golframite. Used to make very hard drivers. > > 8a. Mockhound. A ten o'clock rockhound. > > 9a. Curbonitites. A class of rock used in highway construction. > > 9b. Javalava. A volcanic rock. The original source of mud coffee. > > john From magnet at crocoite.com Tue Nov 29 00:47:38 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Tue Nov 29 00:48:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List Challenge Message-ID: <20051129084738.6345.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi Kitty We now have a runaway leader! Three mentions of fluorite! Regards Steve From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Nov 29 03:49:57 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 29 03:50:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational In-Reply-To: <438BE363.BBC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: >Paxel -- the peace of mind that comes from knowing the stolen Moon Rocks >were recovered Oh my, Kreigh... You must have been anxiously awaiting my reply and sitting on this one (LOL) RE-LOL --- Good one though ! >A 'dicking table' is a hotspot at Tucson where you buy specimens of >dickthomsonnenite I was thinking more along the lines of a table on which the undrainable, unshakeable, unstrangleable LIZARDites are displayed. >Fool's Fold -- the cash you get from selling Pyrite or a Ghoul's gold... mostly gold teeth, I guess. Axel Axel Emmermann wrote: > > COOL !!! > > You all know a picking table? But what would a "dicking table" be, except > perhaps a bit risqu?? > > Who has it? Marc_as_it_e > > When I hit my thumb with my hammer I_KAI_TE (do dogs go "kaiet" in America > too when you step on their paws?) > > Do minerals throw away their habit when they loose their faith? > > Kitty, you sure started a mad mineral name-frenzy... > > Cheersite > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Erich Kern > Verzonden: maandag 28 november 2005 5:53 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational > > This one from my wife Laurie: > > Pirates looking for fool's gold: > > "Pyrites of the Caribbean" > > Erich Kern > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jabac" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational > > Margaret Malm wrote: > > >How about > > > >1. Fieldspar a battle between two rockhounds over who saw that neat rock > >first? > >2. Tourmarine a boat trip > > > >3. Floorite a new kind of synthetic flooring > > > >4. Sappy hire wow, was it ever dumb to hire him! > > > >5. Dangburite! The one you dropped on your toe > > > >6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! > > > >7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! > > > >7. Call cite a rock phone booth > > > >Margaret > > > > > > Good job, Margaret! > > And: > > 1a. Gyrolousite. Crystalline habit: three-dimensional dendrites. > > 2a. Diddenite. Gemstone variety often used for worry stones. > > 3a. Canburnite. Named after a town in old Connecticutt. Location > now lost. > (Note: subject to spontaneous combustion. > Handle like > Sodium metal.) > > 4a. Cubelite Used to provide pink office walls. > > 5a. Q'artz Arabian silica. (Pronounced "cartz"). > > 6a. Kiderite. Fool's iron. Often associated with Lyrite, > Fool's nickel. > > 7a. Golframite. Used to make very hard drivers. > > 8a. Mockhound. A ten o'clock rockhound. > > 9a. Curbonitites. A class of rock used in highway construction. > > 9b. Javalava. A volcanic rock. The original source of mud coffee. > > john _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gmk at wsu.edu Tue Nov 29 07:18:02 2005 From: gmk at wsu.edu (Gretchen) Date: Tue Nov 29 07:18:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? Message-ID: <8b05d5590511290718o55ea3923n761410df3a72ed10@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I've been trying to figure out a good gift for my dad, who is a rockhound. Does anyone here subscribe to Rock & Gem Magazine? If so, would you recommend it? If not, are there any others you'd recommend? I'm thinking of getting him a subscription as a gift. Thanks! Gretchen --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Tue Nov 29 07:47:42 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Tue Nov 29 07:48:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Favorite rocks Message-ID: <20051129154742.13915.qmail@web34614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: My number 1 favorite rock is a combination specimen from just west of Georgetown OH on Ohio Rt 125, it's a brachiopod with coral on the outside. Inside it's lined with nearly white/clear calcite crystals in a thin layer. On that layer there are a number of dolomite crystals shaped like sheaves of grain - these are a light tan color with just a touch of pink. Running from one side of the interior to the other is a long straight set of crystals of celestite. Finally, there are little micro-crystals of some kind of sulfide or something, like pyrite, or sphalerite, or chalcopyrite...these are really small. I have trouble picking a number 2 or 3 rock...perhaps a block of albite with an embedded spray of bright green tourmaline from Mt Apatite, ME which we collected several years ago would be number 2. Number 3 would be a toss-up between a fluorite I found at a road-cut in central KY just south of Lexington and some smoky quartz from Mt Antero. The only thing worth picking up I found at Mt Antero on our trip out west some years ago. I wish I had the gumption to go there again, I've learned a lot about collecting since the last trip. It's a very small piece of matrix with little grey clear quartzs on it, a TN or Mini at most, but it's mine! The fluorite is pretty nice too, on the back of a piece of matrix that had some calcite crystals on the front. JR --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Tue Nov 29 08:11:57 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Tue Nov 29 07:59:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Shadows of Venus (slightly OT) References: <6.2.1.2.0.20051128153631.024b4108@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <003901c5f4ff$9fdd5e90$887ea118@feldsparflash> Surprised they call it a shadow. Why not Venushine! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Shadows of Venus (slightly OT) > This is a bit off-topic, but I know many on this list are interested in > astronomy and photography. Following is a link to a story about > photographing shadows cast by Venus. The time to look for this is just > after sunset, between now and December 3rd, when the moon will begin to > interfere with the opportunity. > > h ttp://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/28nov_venusshadows.htm?list762633 > > Aloha, Bill > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kadok at infowest.com Tue Nov 29 08:15:53 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Nov 29 08:16:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational In-Reply-To: <000501c5f45d$6a6b9b20$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <20051129161547.07091A10B2@marbella.infowest.com> Yea, Jay --These get better and better! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 1:51 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational Here is a few: Gutentite: a virgin Hornsfelt: Pamplona pain Natrolite: a real blond Sodalite: sugar free drink Basalt: too much seasoning Biotite: impenetrable chaparral Betafite: pugilist wager Cummingtonite: Christmas eve, sorry you with a dirty mind Dolomite:sleepy tick Harmotome:bookworm Rhyolite: watered down whisky Tarbuttite: one who sits on a extremely hot pavement Topaz: Peruvian hair piece Turquoise: Gooble Gooble ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 11:08 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational > Very good, Kreigh! > Margaret > > > >A few alternate definitions, and a few more submissions... > > >Kreigh > > > Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > How about > > > 6. Serpent tine That kid is a real snake-in -the-grass! > > Part of a fork for eating snake meat > > > > > 7. Bearite The rock that big grizzly is sitting on! > > What you do at the fork in the path to the collecting site > > > > > 7. Call cite a rock phone booth > > The detail part of your long distance phone bill that lists all calls > > ============ > > Tremorlite -- a small earthquake > > Varisit -- What an ADDHD kid does in a chair > > Pitch blonde -- the opposit of pitch black hair > > Anthrax lite -- the mild fever you get after an anthrax vaccination > > Pyrlite -- starting a fire for a cremation > > Croclite -- just a little BS > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jabac at hal-pc.org Tue Nov 29 08:29:03 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Tue Nov 29 08:24:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? In-Reply-To: <8b05d5590511290718o55ea3923n761410df3a72ed10@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b05d5590511290718o55ea3923n761410df3a72ed10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <438C81CF.4000609@hal-pc.org> Gretchen wrote: >Hi all, > >I've been trying to figure out a good gift for my dad, who is a rockhound. >Does anyone here subscribe to Rock & Gem Magazine? If so, would you >recommend it? If not, are there any others you'd recommend? I'm thinking >of getting him a subscription as a gift. > >Thanks! >Gretchen > > > I subscribe to both Rock & Gem and Lapidary Journal. Also Rock & Mineral magazine. R&G is for the average rockhound; it is generally useful and interesting though it does tend to repeat itself a lot. There are show reports, field trip reports, some lapidary tips, etc. It is probably the best of the general magazines out there now. I have used it as a starting point for several field trips. LJ is almost entirely for the jewelry maker and is somewhat upscale. (It used to be the best general rockhound magazine but that was long ago and far away.) More advanced ( and more expensive) is Rocks & Minerals (Heldref Pub.) It has features on historical and current mining areas, mineral features, and news. I think frankly that it is of more use to the dealer and higher-scale purchaser than to the "ordinary" rockhound, but it is a beautiful and usefully informative magazine. For instance, the Sept/Oct 2005 issue has an article by Pete Modreski: "Colorado Mineral Collecting Localities". Similar to R&M are Lapis form Germany and Rivista Mineralogica Italiana from Italy. john From pbhewitt at comcast.net Tue Nov 29 08:30:49 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Tue Nov 29 08:31:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational References: <20051129161547.07091A10B2@marbella.infowest.com> Message-ID: <000801c5f502$48987d60$6401a8c0@maingear> I will try ten lamers LOL quartzite - mini quarts kyanite - useful for traversing white water rapids sillimanite - funny ha ha magnetite - great personality tremolite - reverb sound (goes WAY back folks) hematite - shematite's mate fluorapatite - hungry for wooden floors garnet - device for catching long-nosed fish halite - summer storm citrine - oranges, limes, etc Paul in Marietta Pa From jabac at hal-pc.org Tue Nov 29 08:44:46 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Tue Nov 29 08:40:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Favorite rocks In-Reply-To: <20051129154742.13915.qmail@web34614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051129154742.13915.qmail@web34614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <438C857E.2070306@hal-pc.org> J. R. Hodel wrote: ... > > Number 3 would be a toss-up between a fluorite I found at a road-cut in central KY just south of Lexington and some smoky quartz from Mt Antero. The only thing worth picking up I found at Mt Antero on our trip out west some years ago. I wish I had the gumption to go there again, I've learned a lot about collecting since the last trip. It's a very small piece of matrix with little grey clear quartzs on it, a TN or Mini at most, but it's mine! > > The fluorite is pretty nice too, on the back of a piece of matrix that had some calcite crystals on the front. > > JR > > I don't know about others but I view my first trip to an area as exploration. Especially if I am alone and have no guide. I pick up a little bit of everything, hoping to find the "big one', of course, but generally to have something to study for my next trip. All the research and book-study pales besides having the array of samples in front of you to see how things really are; what is promising, what is leaverite, and what is country rock. Then when I go back (hopefully; so many places, so little time...) I can search with confidence that I really know what I am looking for; and it works! So get up the gumption, JR. Go back to Antero! Not many go even the first time because of the difficulties, and you will have all the advantages of experience and wisdom. Incidentally the North Jeffco Mineral Club (Denver) usually has a field trip to Mt Antero every year. They have an intro to claims there and always have fun. john From jabac at hal-pc.org Tue Nov 29 09:02:15 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Tue Nov 29 08:57:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <438C8997.5090704@hal-pc.org> Axel Emmermann wrote: >Hi Kitty, > >Aha! Playtime.... >My favorite time of day! Naturally, I have a slight disadvantage as a Dutch >speaking planet dweller but I'll give it a go anyway... >Didn't have time to read them all so please remove the plagiarisms yourself. > > Congratulations, Kitty! I figured you could come up with something to flush Axel out of his hibernation...acting quite ursine as well. E-mermanite: A strangely shaped mineral from semi-marine environments given to sudden changes in structure and temperament. Also found in cybernetic environs, hence the hyphenation. john From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Nov 29 09:31:36 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 29 09:31:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational In-Reply-To: <438C8997.5090704@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: Hybernetic hyphenations? No time to sleep... gotta find silly mineral names... Abernatyite => HYbernatyite ACTINOOLITE ... a contradiction in terms... needle shape mass of rounded grains ;-))) Acanthite <=> argentite... Well, Ican't_hite would be the least self-confident of all minerals. It's dimorph with Urgentite, the hastiest mineral. Duftite? Daftite would be the silliest mineral... Moronite would be the stupidest mineral (Morinite) Sousalite : the best marching mineral (Souzalite) Hupsakee Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens jabac Verzonden: dinsdag 29 november 2005 18:02 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational Axel Emmermann wrote: >Hi Kitty, > >Aha! Playtime.... >My favorite time of day! Naturally, I have a slight disadvantage as a Dutch >speaking planet dweller but I'll give it a go anyway... >Didn't have time to read them all so please remove the plagiarisms yourself. > > Congratulations, Kitty! I figured you could come up with something to flush Axel out of his hibernation...acting quite ursine as well. E-mermanite: A strangely shaped mineral from semi-marine environments given to sudden changes in structure and temperament. Also found in cybernetic environs, hence the hyphenation. john _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From barbnjim at icehouse.net Mon Nov 28 19:23:20 2005 From: barbnjim at icehouse.net (Jim and Barbara Browne) Date: Tue Nov 29 09:41:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] palygorskite Message-ID: I was a mine geologist at the Pend Oreille Mine in the 1950's and 1960's and have a number of excellent calcite on palygorskite and barite on palygorskite specimens. Many of them show fine clear golden barite and filiform pyrite in addition to, and in some cases (the pyrite) penetrating, the calcite. I also have a specimen or two of very fine filiform pyrite where the pyrite has some length, say 1/2 inch or more and is so thin that it actually flexes when one blows gently on it. There was quite an amazing variety of calcite from different caves/vugs/solution cavities in that mine. Although the mine is now operating again after having been shut down for 15 or 20 years, the new owners are mining at a different horizon and I don't believe that they are encountering any new solution caves with the calcite and palygorskite. In a few places we found sphalerite on the surface of, or embedded in, the paligorskite, in the form of crude crystals, but the nature of the surface of the crystals convinced me that they were residue from the solution of the mineralized carbonate, rather than having been precipitated out of solution directly onto the paligorskite. On the lowest levels of the mine we intersected one solution cavity from which water was still running and in time a small mass of paligorskite accumulated or precipitated from the water onto the lip of the cavity. In its raw (wet) state it is quite slimy and unpleasant to the touch. The miners called it "spook shit". I have a number of specimens for sale or trade if someone is interested. Regards, Jim Browne From kahako at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 09:57:12 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Nov 29 09:57:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? In-Reply-To: <8b05d5590511290718o55ea3923n761410df3a72ed10@mail.gmail.co m> References: <8b05d5590511290718o55ea3923n761410df3a72ed10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051129073718.024ada18@incoming.verizon.net> Hi Gretchen, We subscribe to Rock & Gem, and it's a very good place to start with someone who is not into any highly specific or heavily scientific information. The photos are usually quite good. Often the theme on the cover is treated from several different viewpoints; for example, for the current December issue the cover feature is Turquoise with a story about its history and modern appeal; then there is a Field Trip report on Turquoise Mt. in New Mexico, and another article with a step-by-step project on making a Turquoise Donut Pendent. Nearly every issue has something for kids and families, reviews of books or products, articles for those interested in lapidary, faceting, crafts, science, and rockhounding locations. The subscription price is quite low, probably because there are lots of ads...but the ads can be interesting and useful. Aloha, Kitty At 05:18 AM 11/29/2005, you wrote: >Hi all, > >I've been trying to figure out a good gift for my dad, who is a rockhound. >Does anyone here subscribe to Rock & Gem Magazine? If so, would you >recommend it? If not, are there any others you'd recommend? I'm thinking >of getting him a subscription as a gift. > >Thanks! >Gretchen From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Nov 29 08:07:05 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Nov 29 10:09:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] palygorskite References: Message-ID: <004a01c5f4fe$fa325400$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Note from Admin: Reply to Jim off-List as he is not a member. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim and Barbara Browne" > I was a mine geologist at the Pend Oreille Mine in the 1950's and > 1960's and have a > I have a number of specimens for sale or trade if someone is > interested. > Regards, Jim Browne From jr50wv at yahoo.com Tue Nov 29 10:44:30 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Tue Nov 29 10:44:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt St Helens Slo-mo eruption Message-ID: <20051129184430.62973.qmail@web34605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: There's a pretty interesting article at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/29/science/29volc.html?8dpc about the current "slow-motion" eruption at Mt St Helen. JR --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Tue Nov 29 11:17:09 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Tue Nov 29 11:17:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational References: <20051129161547.07091A10B2@marbella.infowest.com> Message-ID: <001701c5f519$7f6f8650$78f1edc1@mpc1> shi'ite - a variety of dynamite .. From rocknate at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 11:55:58 2005 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Tue Nov 29 11:56:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? In-Reply-To: <8b05d5590511290718o55ea3923n761410df3a72ed10@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b05d5590511290718o55ea3923n761410df3a72ed10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Gretchen, Of course it all depends on your dad's interests but here are some alternative suggestions for the rockhound or mineral collector who enjoys field collecting: 1) a good mineral hardness kit - see http://www.amateurgeologist.com/shop/equipment_rockmineralidentification.html 2) an acid bottle with a leather case - see http://shop.store.yahoo.com/ascscientific/acidbottlecase.html 3) carbide tipped chisels (my personal favorites are the 7/8" hand point and the 7/8" hand chisel - see http://trowandholden.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=181274.1308*yy5Xw1&product=cat1 4) construction worker type knee pads from Home Depot ($10 to $15) 5) Delorme Atlas & Gazetteer for your favorite state - see http://www.delorme.com/atlasgaz/ 6) a fly fishing vest with lots of little pockets to put rocks in when field collecting - see http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/601-1485869-9887337?asin=B0002ML7NU&AFID=Froogle&ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001 or http://www.llbean.com/ 7) Mineralogy for Amateurs (Paperback) by J. Sinkankas - try Amazon.com 8) a nail brush for field cleaning of specimens 9) a leather carpenter's tool pouch and work belt to hold chisels, nail brush, etc. 10) a hammer holster 11) an Estwing 4 lb long handled crack hammer 12) an Estwing gad pry bar 13) a 10X loupe 14) a Garmin GPS receiver (don't leave home without one) OK, I'll stop now - you get the idea. Unfortunately I already have all of these (except for the acid bottle). How about some other suggestions from list members so that I can finish making my Christmas list? Happy hunting Nate martin Lexington, MA On 11/29/05, Gretchen wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been trying to figure out a good gift for my dad, who is a rockhound. > Does anyone here subscribe to Rock & Gem Magazine? If so, would you > recommend it? If not, are there any others you'd recommend? I'm thinking > of getting him a subscription as a gift. > > Thanks! > Gretchen > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Tue Nov 29 12:01:58 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Tue Nov 29 12:02:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational References: <20051129161547.07091A10B2@marbella.infowest.com> <001701c5f519$7f6f8650$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <3d7201c5f51f$c191db40$6402a8c0@remains> ou know, not all shiite Muslims are terrorists..some of them are actually very nice people, such as a few friends of mine who would be more than a little offended by comments like that. It was crass. I really don't understand why it is that people in Western nations can't seem to get it through their heads that not all Muslims/Iraqis, Afghanis/Middle Easterners, whatever, are terrorists or fundamentalists. Spend some time there, and you will find that 99% plus of the people you find in Middle Eastern or African countries are the most sharing, giving people you could ever hope to meet....and that Lunatic fringe you see in the media DOES NOT represent the vast majority of these people. I have never been treated as well in North America or Europe as I have been in Muslim countries.....and unlike so many North Americans or Europeans I know, they aren't ignorant enough to believe that their government's foreign policy reflects the majority of the population's interests. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mick Cooper" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational > shi'ite - a variety of dynamite .. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Tue Nov 29 12:40:26 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Nov 29 12:40:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt St Helens Slo-mo eruption In-Reply-To: <20051129184430.62973.qmail@web34605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051129184430.62973.qmail@web34605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20051129123926.037aac98@orerockon.com> Your URL didnt work for me. This one did: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/29/science/29volc.html At 10:44 AM 11/29/2005, you wrote: >Hi: > > There's a pretty interesting article at > > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/29/science/29volc.html?8dpc > > about the current "slow-motion" eruption at Mt St Helen. > > JR > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From kahako at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 13:59:16 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Nov 29 14:01:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? In-Reply-To: References: <8b05d5590511290718o55ea3923n761410df3a72ed10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051129103031.03ca4458@incoming.verizon.net> Great idea, Nate---a rockhounds gift list! Here are my additions: 1) a ski pole or other walking stick. If the person is a photographer, get (or make) a stick that can work as a monopod for a camera. The screw on top (1/4 ", I believe) goes into the camera to steady it. Ours has a ball that screws on the top for a comfortable grip for hiking. When you need to steady the camera, unscrew the ball and screw on the camera. I just googled "monopod hiking stick" and the first few I looked at cost about $120, so perhaps a home-made one would be better for someone on a budget. 2) a "shooting stick," especially if the rockhound has knee or other limitations that require resting along the way: see: Folding Seat Cane: Cane has a seat that flips down to make a tripod chair: http://www.specialty-medical.com/indexproducts.html Spectator Seat: a walking cane with a sling top that folds out to a monopod seat, height adjustable: http://www.spectatorseats.com/>http://www.spectatorseats.com/ Flipstick: Top flips to make a monopod bicycle-type seat. One version can fold into a carrying case with shoulder strap: http://www.myles-rec.com/Recreation/Flipstick/flipstick.htm 3) for the rockhound who goes out in the sun (this is a stocking stuffer): a box of "Sun Guard" made by Rit and sold (usually) with fabric dyes and laundry supplies. Add a package to a load of laundry containing the clothes most used for being on the sun, and it will increase most fabrics to UPF 30. It lasts through several subsequent washings with normal detergent. This was recommended to us by our dermatologist. Aloha, Kitty At 09:55 AM 11/29/2005, you wrote: >Gretchen, > >Of course it all depends on your dad's interests but here are some >alternative suggestions for the rockhound or mineral collector who >enjoys field collecting: > >1) a good mineral hardness kit - see >http://www.amateurgeologist.com/shop/equipment_rockmineralidentification.html > >2) an acid bottle with a leather case - see >http://shop.store.yahoo.com/ascscientific/acidbottlecase.html > >3) carbide tipped chisels (my personal favorites are the 7/8" hand >point and the 7/8" hand chisel - see >http://trowandholden.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=181274.1308*yy5Xw1&product=cat1 > >4) construction worker type knee pads from Home Depot ($10 to $15) > >5) Delorme Atlas & Gazetteer for your favorite state - see >http://www.delorme.com/atlasgaz/ > >6) a fly fishing vest with lots of little pockets to put rocks in when >field collecting - see >http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/601-1485869-9887337?asin=B0002ML7NU&AFID=Froogle&ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001 >or >http://www.llbean.com/ > >7) Mineralogy for Amateurs (Paperback) by J. Sinkankas - try Amazon.com > >8) a nail brush for field cleaning of specimens > >9) a leather carpenter's tool pouch and work belt to hold chisels, >nail brush, etc. > >10) a hammer holster > >11) an Estwing 4 lb long handled crack hammer > >12) an Estwing gad pry bar > >13) a 10X loupe > >14) a Garmin GPS receiver (don't leave home without one) > >OK, I'll stop now - you get the idea. Unfortunately I already have >all of these (except for the acid bottle). How about some other >suggestions from list members so that I can finish making my Christmas >list? > >Happy hunting >Nate martin >Lexington, MA From roughrock at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 16:31:08 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Tue Nov 29 16:31:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? In-Reply-To: <8b05d5590511290718o55ea3923n761410df3a72ed10@mail.gmail.com> References: <8b05d5590511290718o55ea3923n761410df3a72ed10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: If your dad's a rockhound Rock & Gem is very good. If he's a jeweler Lapidary Journal is best. Grant On 11/29/05, Gretchen wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been trying to figure out a good gift for my dad, who is a rockhound. > Does anyone here subscribe to Rock & Gem Magazine? If so, would you > recommend it? If not, are there any others you'd recommend? I'm thinking > of getting him a subscription as a gift. > > Thanks! > Gretchen > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Tue Nov 29 17:02:08 2005 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Tue Nov 29 17:02:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chemistry question Message-ID: <20051129210208.bgpay4plhe88oo88@my6.dal.ca> Hi All, Chemistry is something I know very little, so bear with me on this question. I have some chunks of gypsum containing embedded sprays of either ulexite or probertite (has been IDed as both, needs more work). When found along the shore, the sprays are partly exposed from the gypsum revealing beautiful crystals, but the sprays either get damaged or are dissolving themselves (slightly slower than the gypsum). I would like a way to expose the sprays further in a controlled environment. I foolishly tried setting them in water - some gypsum dissolved but the sprays dissolved deeper into the specimens leaving holes where the crystals were. A friend of mine suggested first dissolving boax in the water to create a nearly saturated solution (we don't want borax precipitating on our specimens!) Does this logic make any sense. If it depends on other factors (solubility of the two minerals, etc) what should I be researching to make it work? I would appreciate any help the list members could give. I know there are some chemists out there! Thanks in advance. Ronnie Van Dommelen From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Nov 29 17:16:50 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Nov 29 17:16:53 2005 Subject: WARNING(virus check bypassed): [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? References: <8b05d5590511290718o55ea3923n761410df3a72ed10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003a01c5f54b$be71ab80$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Would you consider him to be a beginner or has this been a life-long passion? In addition to Rock & Gem, Rocks & Minerals is another good publication. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gretchen" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:18 AM Subject: WARNING(virus check bypassed): [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? Hi all, I've been trying to figure out a good gift for my dad, who is a rockhound. Does anyone here subscribe to Rock & Gem Magazine? If so, would you recommend it? If not, are there any others you'd recommend? I'm thinking of getting him a subscription as a gift. Thanks! Gretchen --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From davisj at earthlink.net Tue Nov 29 17:31:31 2005 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Tue Nov 29 17:31:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack questions (was Where can I buy...) In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051126183531.024aef20@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: My HD did not have a clue what I was talking about. Spoke to 4 people. From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Tue Nov 29 17:47:02 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Tue Nov 29 17:47:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] palygorskite References: Message-ID: <003c01c5f54f$f62c5850$655fe842@Titans> Jim, Is that mine in the Metaline Falls area of N.E. Washington State ? If so can you remember what the water temperature was at depth ? Thanks Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim and Barbara Browne" To: Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 8:23 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] palygorskite > I was a mine geologist at the Pend Oreille Mine in the 1950's and > 1960's and have a > number of excellent calcite on palygorskite and barite on > palygorskite specimens. > Many of them show fine clear golden barite and filiform pyrite in > addition to, and in > some cases (the pyrite) penetrating, the calcite. I also have a > specimen or two of > very fine filiform pyrite where the pyrite has some length, say > 1/2 inch or more and > is so thin that it actually flexes when one blows gently on it. > There was quite an > amazing variety of calcite from different caves/vugs/solution > cavities in that mine. > Although the mine is now operating again after having been shut > down for 15 or 20 > years, the new owners are mining at a different horizon and I > don't believe that they > are encountering any new solution caves with the calcite and > palygorskite. > In a few places we found sphalerite on the surface of, or > embedded in, the > paligorskite, in the form of crude crystals, but the nature of the > surface of the crystals > convinced me that they were residue from the solution of the > mineralized carbonate, > rather than having been precipitated out of solution directly onto > the paligorskite. On > the lowest levels of the mine we intersected one solution cavity > from which water was > still running and in time a small mass of paligorskite accumulated > or precipitated from > the water onto the lip of the cavity. In its raw (wet) state it > is quite slimy and > unpleasant to the touch. The miners called it "spook shit". > I have a number of specimens for sale or trade if someone is > interested. > Regards, Jim Browne > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From agesilaus at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 17:52:12 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Nov 29 17:52:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chemistry question In-Reply-To: <20051129210208.bgpay4plhe88oo88@my6.dal.ca> References: <20051129210208.bgpay4plhe88oo88@my6.dal.ca> Message-ID: Well the problem would be the slight solubility of gypsum in the first place. Also the two borate species you mention are complex salts and it may be hard to find solubility data on them. A saturated solution of Sodium Borate (borax) might have unpredictable results. The principal of the saturated solution has some merit but the practicalities of it are difficult to predict, it depend on how much of this material you feel that you can ruin during experimentation. BK On 11/29/05, Ronnie Van Dommelen wrote: > > Hi All, > > Chemistry is something I know very little, so bear with me on this > question. I > have some chunks of gypsum containing embedded sprays of either ulexite or > probertite (has been IDed as both, needs more work). When found along the > shore, the sprays are partly exposed from the gypsum revealing beautiful > crystals, but the sprays either get damaged or are dissolving themselves > (slightly slower than the gypsum). > > I would like a way to expose the sprays further in a controlled > environment. I > foolishly tried setting them in water - some gypsum dissolved but the > sprays > dissolved deeper into the specimens leaving holes where the crystals > were. A > friend of mine suggested first dissolving boax in the water to create a > nearly > saturated solution (we don't want borax precipitating on our specimens!) > > Does this logic make any sense. If it depends on other factors > (solubility of > the two minerals, etc) what should I be researching to make it work? I > would > appreciate any help the list members could give. I know there are some > chemists out there! > > Thanks in advance. > > Ronnie Van Dommelen > _______________________________________________ > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From agesilaus at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 17:57:31 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Nov 29 17:57:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chemistry question In-Reply-To: References: <20051129210208.bgpay4plhe88oo88@my6.dal.ca> Message-ID: Oh and the principal you are looking at is called the Common Ion Effect: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0813046.html a derivation of Le Ch?telier's Principal: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0829196.html BK On 11/29/05, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Well the problem would be the slight solubility of gypsum in the first > place. > > Also the two borate species you mention are complex salts and it may be > hard to find solubility data on them. A saturated solution of Sodium Borate > (borax) might have unpredictable results. > > The principal of the saturated solution has some merit but the > practicalities of it are difficult to predict, it depend on how much of this > material you feel that you can ruin during experimentation. > > BK > > > On 11/29/05, Ronnie Van Dommelen wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > Chemistry is something I know very little, so bear with me on this > > question. I > > have some chunks of gypsum containing embedded sprays of either ulexite > > or > > probertite (has been IDed as both, needs more work). When found along > > the > > shore, the sprays are partly exposed from the gypsum revealing beautiful > > crystals, but the sprays either get damaged or are dissolving themselves > > > > (slightly slower than the gypsum). > > > > I would like a way to expose the sprays further in a controlled > > environment. I > > foolishly tried setting them in water - some gypsum dissolved but the > > sprays > > dissolved deeper into the specimens leaving holes where the crystals > > were. A > > friend of mine suggested first dissolving boax in the water to create a > > nearly > > saturated solution (we don't want borax precipitating on our specimens!) > > > > Does this logic make any sense. If it depends on other factors > > (solubility of > > the two minerals, etc) what should I be researching to make it work? I > > would > > appreciate any help the list members could give. I know there are some > > chemists out there! > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Ronnie Van Dommelen > > _______________________________________________ > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Tue Nov 29 19:00:10 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 29 19:00:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? Message-ID: <284.a792d0.30be6fba@aol.com> My vote (and maybe you already did this) is to spend a day or two collecting with your dad and enjoying the time with him. Might be the best gift the both of you get. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds at adelphia.net Tue Nov 29 19:14:34 2005 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Tue Nov 29 19:09:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? In-Reply-To: <8b05d5590511290718o55ea3923n761410df3a72ed10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000401c5f55c$31511180$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> It is my favorite magazine. I am sure your dad would love it. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gretchen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:18 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? Hi all, I've been trying to figure out a good gift for my dad, who is a rockhound. Does anyone here subscribe to Rock & Gem Magazine? If so, would you recommend it? If not, are there any others you'd recommend? I'm thinking of getting him a subscription as a gift. Thanks! Gretchen --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Tue Nov 29 19:15:26 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Nov 29 19:15:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? In-Reply-To: <284.a792d0.30be6fba@aol.com> References: <284.a792d0.30be6fba@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051129170922.03ce3230@incoming.verizon.net> Excellent idea, Gene! Some of my happiest memories are of rockhounding with my mother. In her older years she didn't have the ability to go out into the field any more, but she loved it when Bill and I would come visit her and bring her a collected treasure and pictures and stories of our adventures. These were much more precious to her than any purchased gift. Aloha, Kitty At 05:00 PM 11/29/2005, you wrote: >My vote (and maybe you already did this) is to spend a day or two collecting >with your dad and enjoying the time with him. Might be the best gift the >both of you get. > >Gene Hartstein >Newark, DE From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 29 19:41:21 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 29 19:38:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational References: Message-ID: <438D1EA0.57DC@Tomaszewski.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > > >Paxel -- the peace of mind that comes from knowing the stolen Moon Rocks > >were recovered > > Oh my, Kreigh... You must have been anxiously awaiting my reply and sitting > on this one (LOL) > RE-LOL --- Good one though ! I thought it was better than loonrock -- a specimen in the wild that cries out mournfully to be collected. CarVanSite -- a used car lot BadSalt -- an evaporate that associated with with criminal elements Pubbles -- what the stuff that runs out of your nose makes when you habe a bad cold Pregmatite -- what happens to a woman's clothes as she approaches childbirth AdamadantTine -- using your fork to make a point in a dinner discussion Geoslogy -- the mud on the trail to the collecting site AllMenDine -- What happens when Priests get together for dinner DataLite -- the executive summary at the start of a research paper NephewLine -- getting ready to eat at the family reunion potluck Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 29 20:09:53 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 29 20:06:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack questions (was Where can I buy...) References: Message-ID: <438D254C.6998@Tomaszewski.net> Joe Davis wrote: > > My HD did not have a clue what I was talking about. Spoke to 4 people. > I had the same problem, so I ordered direct from the manufacturer online. Their order confirmation email included my credit card details in full. I have complained to them and the credit card issuer. Hopefully they will fix their flawed and clueless ordering system. It appears this is a regional product that is only carried by HD stores in earthquake prone areas; I talked to the store manager. If you get past the floor clerks you should be able to get them to order it (timeline was unacceptable to me, but I will probably do so next time because of the manufacturer's ordering system flaws). Kreigh From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Tue Nov 29 20:33:11 2005 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Tue Nov 29 20:33:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt St Helens Slo-mo eruption In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20051129123926.037aac98@orerockon.com> Message-ID: I must disagree with the statement about no steam plumes in the last nine months, I can see the moutain from my office window near Troutdale Oregon, and every once in a while when it's not raining you can see very clearly that it still puffs every now and again. Two weeks ago we had beautiful clear weather and looking out there was a white "dome" looking mound sticking straight up out of the crater. It had been cloudy for weeks prior, I joked to a coworker that the dome must have grown while we couldn't see it! The local news said it was steam rising up from the crater! Dawn Fredricks From smtravis at plateautel.net Tue Nov 29 21:46:57 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Tue Nov 29 21:47:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw References: <000001c5f2db$aba2a5d0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: <010401c5f571$7a2f31b0$259e5a40@marilyn> Covington still sells saw kits I have been investigating there feeds and I think a kit for a automated feed runs around $200 a bargain for a new feed. I have been completely renovating a 14" highland park 60's vintage I will soon have an article ready with pictures that show the saw completely apart and the steps in putting it back to gether without the rust if anyone is interested. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Hanson" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:49 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw > Thanks for the tips. I just started looking for info today. I hope to find > some one who has an old saw I can rob parts from or at least modify. > Thanks > for the help. > Kelly > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 1:28 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw > > > Kelly, since it is an old homemade saw I think your best bet is to > improvise. I built a homemade saw using a vise I bought at Orchard Supply > Hardware and a screw feed mechanism from a estate sale of an old deceased > rockhound. > > You might try Diamond Pacific that sells some old parts for old Highland > Park saws or Lorotone that also sells some parts for their new saws that > can > be adapted to be used on old saws. > > You have to keep looking and asking. There is no easy solution to getting > parts for your old saw. Having new parts made up from measurements is > probably prohibitively expensive. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly Hanson" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:49 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw > > > I have a very old saw that looks like a highland park but my rock shop guy > says it's home made. I am missing part of the rock holding mechanism and > at > the part that screws the rock in to the say. How can I get new/used parts > or > diagrams to have them built. Thanks Kelly > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rockhounds at adelphia.net Tue Nov 29 21:59:02 2005 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Tue Nov 29 21:53:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw In-Reply-To: <010401c5f571$7a2f31b0$259e5a40@marilyn> Message-ID: <000001c5f573$2ad54030$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Steve Put me on the list for the article. I have e-mailed Covington and expect I will find what I need there. Thanks Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Steve & Marilyn Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 9:47 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw Covington still sells saw kits I have been investigating there feeds and I think a kit for a automated feed runs around $200 a bargain for a new feed. I have been completely renovating a 14" highland park 60's vintage I will soon have an article ready with pictures that show the saw completely apart and the steps in putting it back to gether without the rust if anyone is interested. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Hanson" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:49 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw > Thanks for the tips. I just started looking for info today. I hope to > find some one who has an old saw I can rob parts from or at least > modify. Thanks for the help. > Kelly > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 1:28 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw > > > Kelly, since it is an old homemade saw I think your best bet is to > improvise. I built a homemade saw using a vise I bought at Orchard > Supply Hardware and a screw feed mechanism from a estate sale of an > old deceased rockhound. > > You might try Diamond Pacific that sells some old parts for old > Highland Park saws or Lorotone that also sells some parts for their > new saws that can be adapted to be used on old saws. > > You have to keep looking and asking. There is no easy solution to > getting parts for your old saw. Having new parts made up from > measurements is probably prohibitively expensive. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly Hanson" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:49 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw > > > I have a very old saw that looks like a highland park but my rock shop > guy says it's home made. I am missing part of the rock holding > mechanism and at the part that screws the rock in to the say. How can > I get new/used parts or > diagrams to have them built. Thanks Kelly > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Wed Nov 30 00:21:15 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Wed Nov 30 00:21:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational References: <20051129161547.07091A10B2@marbella.infowest.com><001701c5f519$7f6f8650$78f1edc1@mpc1> <3d7201c5f51f$c191db40$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <000301c5f587$0aeb25a0$78f1edc1@mpc1> > ou know, not all shiite Muslims are terrorists Did I say that? From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 30 06:32:22 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Nov 30 06:32:26 2005 Subject: WARNING(virus check bypassed): [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? In-Reply-To: <003a01c5f54b$be71ab80$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <20051130143222.35466.qmail@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good point! Rock & Gem is very good for the beginner, Rocks & Minerals for the intermediate collector, and Mineralogical Record for the most advanced. Jim Daly --- Alan Goldstein wrote: > Would you consider him to be a beginner or has this > been a life-long > passion? In addition to Rock & Gem, Rocks & Minerals > is another good > publication. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gretchen" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:18 AM > Subject: WARNING(virus check bypassed): [Rockhounds] > good gift for a > rockhound? > > > Hi all, > > I've been trying to figure out a good gift for my > dad, who is a rockhound. > Does anyone here subscribe to Rock & Gem Magazine? > If so, would you > recommend it? If not, are there any others you'd > recommend? I'm thinking > of getting him a subscription as a gift. > > Thanks! > Gretchen > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Wed Nov 30 07:04:46 2005 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Wed Nov 30 07:04:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw In-Reply-To: <010401c5f571$7a2f31b0$259e5a40@marilyn> Message-ID: <20051130150446.34641.qmail@web35613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes, I am very interested. Let us know where to look for the article. June Young, jayhawkmn@yahoo.com Steve & Marilyn wrote: Covington still sells saw kits I have been investigating there feeds and I think a kit for a automated feed runs around $200 a bargain for a new feed. I have been completely renovating a 14" highland park 60's vintage I will soon have an article ready with pictures that show the saw completely apart and the steps in putting it back to gether without the rust if anyone is interested. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Hanson" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:49 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw > Thanks for the tips. I just started looking for info today. I hope to find > some one who has an old saw I can rob parts from or at least modify. > Thanks > for the help. > Kelly > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 1:28 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw > > > Kelly, since it is an old homemade saw I think your best bet is to > improvise. I built a homemade saw using a vise I bought at Orchard Supply > Hardware and a screw feed mechanism from a estate sale of an old deceased > rockhound. > > You might try Diamond Pacific that sells some old parts for old Highland > Park saws or Lorotone that also sells some parts for their new saws that > can > be adapted to be used on old saws. > > You have to keep looking and asking. There is no easy solution to getting > parts for your old saw. Having new parts made up from measurements is > probably prohibitively expensive. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly Hanson" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:49 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] need parts for 18 inch saw > > > I have a very old saw that looks like a highland park but my rock shop guy > says it's home made. I am missing part of the rock holding mechanism and > at > the part that screws the rock in to the say. How can I get new/used parts > or > diagrams to have them built. Thanks Kelly > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gkoshman at sasktel.net Wed Nov 30 07:20:25 2005 From: gkoshman at sasktel.net (Gerry Koshman) Date: Wed Nov 30 07:20:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laughlin/Quartzsite Message-ID: <000901c5f5c1$99c4ec40$f0e2a3ce@userq8p3k9g7xy> I am planning to drive down from Canada to Laughlin and Quartzsite in Jan. Does anybody know what the show situation is in Laughlin, as the info they have on their website is a bit confusing. Also what would be the best time to be in Quartzsite? Also does anyone know of any good Rock shops along the way, I will be driving up from Vegas. There was a post a while back that said there was a great shop with a large selection of reasonably priced slabs somewhere in that area, but I can't find it now. Thanks for your help Gerry --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Wed Nov 30 09:29:47 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Nov 30 09:30:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mensa Rockhound Invitational In-Reply-To: <438D1EA0.57DC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20051130172939.9FD54A1022@marbella.infowest.com> Good ones, Kreigh! Margaret I thought it was better than loonrock -- a specimen in the wild that cries out mournfully to be collected. CarVanSite -- a used car lot BadSalt -- an evaporate that associated with with criminal elements Pubbles -- what the stuff that runs out of your nose makes when you habe a bad cold Pregmatite -- what happens to a woman's clothes as she approaches childbirth AdamadantTine -- using your fork to make a point in a dinner discussion Geoslogy -- the mud on the trail to the collecting site AllMenDine -- What happens when Priests get together for dinner DataLite -- the executive summary at the start of a research paper NephewLine -- getting ready to eat at the family reunion potluck Kreigh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Wed Nov 30 09:30:54 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Nov 30 09:30:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? In-Reply-To: <000401c5f55c$31511180$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: <20051130173046.0A426A10D9@marbella.infowest.com> I've subscreibed for years, and it is a real "goodie". He'd really enjoy it. Margaret It is my favorite magazine. I am sure your dad would love it. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gretchen Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:18 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] good gift for a rockhound? Hi all, I've been trying to figure out a good gift for my dad, who is a rockhound. Does anyone here subscribe to Rock & Gem Magazine? If so, would you recommend it? If not, are there any others you'd recommend? I'm thinking of getting him a subscription as a gift. Thanks! Gretchen --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From spocksrocks at hotmail.com Wed Nov 30 10:26:39 2005 From: spocksrocks at hotmail.com (Scott Blair) Date: Wed Nov 30 10:26:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laughlin/Quartzsite References: <000901c5f5c1$99c4ec40$f0e2a3ce@userq8p3k9g7xy> Message-ID: Hi Gerry and list: Scott Blair here. I've never been to the Laughlin shows, but I hear they are OK. A couple friends of mine are dealers there, and they love it. They tell me its quiet on the weekdays, and has more attendance on the weekends. I believe Dick Cloud took his old show, Clouds Jamboree, formerly in Quartzsite, to Laughlin because of freeway construction that was slated to overtake him in his former spot which was right by the interchange at the east Quartzsite exit. Laughlin is said to have more amenities (casinos, entertainment, fine dining, hotels. etc) than Quartzsite does. Quartzsite is basically overrun with people during the shows, and all its facilties are extremely taxed. To it's credit, Quartzsite just got a new Motel 6, but unfortunately, the room rates during the show are very high. THere are more amenities 20 miles west, in Blythe, California. I found reasonably understandable info about the Laughlin gem shows at the following link: http://www.riversideresort.com/Html/Press/Clouds_Jam.htm The two main shows that you should see in Quartzsite are Tyson Wells (Part one Jan 5-16, 2006, Part two Jan 20-29, 2006), and Desert Gardens (Jan 1-28, 2006). There is also the Main Event (Jan 6-31, 2006 - more flea-market style, with lots of knick-knacks, and junk, and just a few rocks) and the QIA (Quartzsite Improvement Association) Pow Wow. The pow wow (Jan. 25-29, 2006) is a good show, but for people, who are heading on over to Tucson, the pow wow dates fall too close to the opening of the shows in Tucson for one ot want to stay around in "Lil ole Quartzsite" when all of Tucson is popping up. For example, This January, many of the Tucson shows open on the 28th. Tyson Wells has two parts. The first part is all rock & gem show. Then Tyson Wells shuts down and takes a break for a few days, and then reopens it's second half, which is rocks, along with all manner of other flea market stuff. If you are a die hard, who insists on getting first pick, you may want to be there in the first week of January, for the opening of these Quartzsite shows.You could then head north to Laughlin. If you are planning on going to Tucson, you may want to go to Quartzsite during the 3rd week of January, catch the opening of the second half of Tyson Wells, do Desert Gardens, take a quick peek around the Main Event, and then head on. Warm Regards - Scott Blair From tangojuli at yahoo.com Wed Nov 30 10:34:19 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Wed Nov 30 10:34:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack In-Reply-To: <200511300131.jAU1Vr83013889@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20051130183419.58566.qmail@web60822.mail.yahoo.com> It was great timing this discussion on getting mineral tack. I asked a few people this past summer who told me Walmart should have it (under the poster tack label). At the time, living in Indiana, I went to Walmart in Greenwood, Bloomington and Bedford and nada. Went to home depot in Greenwood, nada. Asked people at those stores, nada. Went to hobby lobby, nada. So, I have my acrylic bases but no clear or white/grey tack(or poster tack). This past week of posts on this sent me the website for the Quake stuff, which referred me to Ace Hardware, H& E and Walmart. I checked all three in my small town here in Barstow CA, and no one had either this stuff or the poster stuff (in white/grey). The walmart did have the yellow and blue stuff, which will leave a residue on white paper. I think it was Jim Daly who warned about this possibility and test. Plus the colors blue and yellow distract from the mineral. I did use brown mortite for a while out of desparation, but it leaves a film and gets a bit "crunchy" after a while. My feldspars seem to darken where they touch the mortite, so that is out! Anyway, I will now try Dave Shannon as I ahve some very beautiful new barites i just mined that I want to mount and boxes of other stuff that have been accumulating. Suggestions on other specific sources who have the stuff would be appreciated. tina tuttle aka tangojuli --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Wed Nov 30 11:01:59 2005 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Wed Nov 30 11:02:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack In-Reply-To: <20051130183419.58566.qmail@web60822.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200511301902.jAUJ1uNm066729@cti41.citenet.net> Good Afternoon, Mineral Tack is unfindabble up here in Canada too, I guess we don't get enough quakes in the north east. Anyway I have ordered it in the past from ColorWright ( http://www.color-wright.com/) AKA Arizona Mineral Company in the US. In addition I have also bought display cases and some rough from them and have been pleased in the past. If you don't find it on the site drop Ron an email. Kay -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of tango juli Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:34 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack It was great timing this discussion on getting mineral tack. I asked a few people this past summer who told me Walmart should have it (under the poster tack label). At the time, living in Indiana, I went to Walmart in Greenwood, Bloomington and Bedford and nada. Went to home depot in Greenwood, nada. Asked people at those stores, nada. Went to hobby lobby, nada. So, I have my acrylic bases but no clear or white/grey tack(or poster tack). This past week of posts on this sent me the website for the Quake stuff, which referred me to Ace Hardware, H& E and Walmart. I checked all three in my small town here in Barstow CA, and no one had either this stuff or the poster stuff (in white/grey). The walmart did have the yellow and blue stuff, which will leave a residue on white paper. I think it was Jim Daly who warned about this possibility and test. Plus the colors blue and yellow distract from the mineral. I did use brown mortite for a while out of desparation, but it leaves a film! and gets a bit "crunchy" after a while. My feldspars seem to darken where they touch the mortite, so that is out! Anyway, I will now try Dave Shannon as I ahve some very beautiful new barites i just mined that I want to mount and boxes of other stuff that have been accumulating. Suggestions on other specific sources who have the stuff would be appreciated. tina tuttle aka tangojuli --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From cscrystals2 at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 13:12:53 2005 From: cscrystals2 at verizon.net (Carolyn Weinberger) Date: Wed Nov 30 13:15:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack In-Reply-To: <20051130183419.58566.qmail@web60822.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051130183419.58566.qmail@web60822.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D8876F2-20A1-4269-8DFD-F8321F3D06DC@verizon.net> Elmer's Glue makes a product called "Tack 'N Stick which is sold at Target. Costs about a $1 for a packet of 8 - 10 sticks. A friend recommended it after using it for years. She says that it's less oily than the usual mineral tack and holds well for years without drying out. C From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Nov 30 14:16:45 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Nov 30 14:07:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Disolving borates out of gypsum References: <200511300131.jAU1Vr84013889@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <017801c5f5fb$c0a8c6d0$48fba5d8@rock5> Ronnie, I think you may be in uncharted territory and may just have to proceed by trial and error. Though you don't say, I think that dissolving something in the water like borax or salt may be a way to proceed. The specimens along the shore you collected were a salt water shore I think and the crystals were partly dissolved? You put them in water and the crystals dissolved faster than the gypsum? So it would appear that sodium chlorite probably was the cause of retarding the solution of your borate. The difference between ulexite and probertite is chemically just a difference in the amount of water 5 and 3 mole hydrates respectively and both monoclinic. At Boron, California, the ulexite is found high in the deposit and the probertite found near the bottom of the deposit mostly. I would suspect that the ulexite might be more susceptible to solution than the probertite. You probably don't need to worry about borax crystallizing on your specimens. Even if it does, it is very soluble and will dissolve quickly if you add a little more water to the solution. Rock From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 30 15:11:04 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 30 15:05:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack References: <200511301902.jAUJ1uNm066729@cti41.citenet.net> Message-ID: <438E3022.6340@Tomaszewski.net> Color-Wright no longer carries Mineral Tack. Kreigh Kay Davis wrote: > > Good Afternoon, > > Mineral Tack is unfindabble up here in Canada too, I guess we > don't get enough quakes in the north east. Anyway I have ordered it in the > past from ColorWright ( http://www.color-wright.com/) AKA Arizona Mineral > Company in the US. In addition I have also bought display cases and some > rough from them and have been pleased in the past. If you don't find it on > the site drop Ron an email. > > Kay > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of tango juli > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:34 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack > > It was great timing this discussion on getting mineral tack. I asked a few > people this past summer who told me Walmart should have it (under the poster > tack label). At the time, living in Indiana, I went to Walmart in Greenwood, > Bloomington and Bedford and nada. Went to home depot in Greenwood, nada. > Asked people at those stores, nada. Went to hobby lobby, nada. So, I have my > acrylic bases but no clear or white/grey tack(or poster tack). This past > week of posts on this sent me the website for the Quake stuff, which > referred me to Ace Hardware, H& E and Walmart. I checked all three in my > small town here in Barstow CA, and no one had either this stuff or the > poster stuff (in white/grey). The walmart did have the yellow and blue > stuff, which will leave a residue on white paper. I think it was Jim Daly > who warned about this possibility and test. Plus the colors blue and yellow > distract from the mineral. I did use brown mortite for a while out of > desparation, but it leaves a film! > and gets > a bit "crunchy" after a while. My feldspars seem to darken where they touch > the mortite, so that is out! > Anyway, I will now try Dave Shannon as I ahve some very beautiful new > barites i just mined that I want to mount and boxes of other stuff that have > been accumulating. Suggestions on other specific sources who have the stuff > would be appreciated. > tina tuttle > aka tangojuli > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 15:14:39 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Nov 30 15:14:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Disolving borates out of gypsum In-Reply-To: <017801c5f5fb$c0a8c6d0$48fba5d8@rock5> References: <200511300131.jAU1Vr84013889@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <017801c5f5fb$c0a8c6d0$48fba5d8@rock5> Message-ID: Not to pick nits but you mean Sodium Chloride not Chlorite, there is a big difference. BK On 11/30/05, Rock Currier wrote: > > Ronnie, > > I think you may be in uncharted territory and may just have to proceed > by trial and error. Though you don't say, I think that dissolving > something > in the water like borax or salt may be a way to proceed. The specimens > along > the shore you collected were a salt water shore I think and the crystals > were partly dissolved? You put them in water and the crystals dissolved > faster than the gypsum? So it would appear that sodium chlorite probably > was > the cause of retarding the solution of your borate. The difference between > ulexite and probertite is chemically just a difference in the amount of > water 5 and 3 mole hydrates respectively and both monoclinic. At Boron, > California, the ulexite is found high in the deposit and the probertite > found near the bottom of the deposit mostly. I would suspect that the > ulexite might be more susceptible to solution than the probertite. You > probably don't need to worry about borax crystallizing on your specimens. > Even if it does, it is very soluble and will dissolve quickly if you add a > little more water to the solution. > > Rock > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bova at mindspring.com Wed Nov 30 16:48:09 2005 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Wed Nov 30 16:46:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack In-Reply-To: <438E3022.6340@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <24BC8B6C-6204-11DA-BEFA-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Just found a reference that Quakehold and Museum Putty are the same thing.. just named differently for areas that don't have quakes. There's also a Museum Wax and transparent Museum Gel. Google on museum wax and there's dozens of sites with them. Anyone have any experience with the wax and gel products? Carol > Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary http://www.eclecticlapidary.com On Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 06:11 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Color-Wright no longer carries Mineral Tack. > > Kreigh --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Nov 30 17:03:53 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Nov 30 17:03:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack References: <24BC8B6C-6204-11DA-BEFA-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <008401c5f613$19699ad0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I used museum wax when working as a curator at the local science museum. The stuff is good for solid matrix specimens, but is not suitable for soft matrix (i.e. goethite, shale, some sandstone, etc.). It has to be softened by hand to become pliable to anchor a specimen on a shelf or acrylic block. When it cools, it because very hard. Unless you want to put the specimen next to a 60 watt bulb, in a sunny window or next to a heater, the wax will be hard to remove without taking some of the matrix in softer pieces. It also leaves a wax residue on the shelf which has to be removed with elbow grease, a razor blade or some combination. In short, museum wax is not a great holding material for some geological specimens. However once attached to the specimen and smooth surface, it will hold a specimen indefinitely. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol J. Bova" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack > Just found a reference that Quakehold and Museum Putty are the same > thing.. just named differently for areas that don't have quakes. > > There's also a Museum Wax and transparent Museum Gel. > Google on museum wax and there's dozens of sites with them. > > Anyone have any experience with the wax and gel products? > Carol >> > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 06:11 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > >> Color-Wright no longer carries Mineral Tack. >> >> Kreigh > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Nov 30 17:20:49 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Nov 30 17:18:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack References: <24BC8B6C-6204-11DA-BEFA-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <000501c5f615$777db3c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> You can order Quake Hold here: http://www.iprepare.com/100sg0111.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol J. Bova" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack > Just found a reference that Quakehold and Museum Putty are the same > thing.. just named differently for areas that don't have quakes. > > There's also a Museum Wax and transparent Museum Gel. > Google on museum wax and there's dozens of sites with them. > > Anyone have any experience with the wax and gel products? > Carol > > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > > > On Wednesday, November 30, 2005, at 06:11 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > Color-Wright no longer carries Mineral Tack. > > > > Kreigh > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Nov 30 19:11:24 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Nov 30 19:11:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laughlin/Quartzsite In-Reply-To: <000901c5f5c1$99c4ec40$f0e2a3ce@userq8p3k9g7xy> Message-ID: What path are you planning to take both ways? Rockpick Lengends in SLC and Red and Green Rock Shop in Denver plus Silverpick near Vernal, Utah are some of my favorites. Glenn From: Gerry Koshman <gkoshman@sasktel.net> Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Laughlin/Quartzsite Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:20:25 -0600 I am planning to drive down from Canada to Laughlin and Quartzsite in Jan. Does anybody know what the show situation is in Laughlin, as the info they have on their website is a bit confusing. Also what would be the best time to be in Quartzsite? Also does anyone know of any good Rock shops along the way, I will be driving up from Vegas. There was a post a while back that said there was a great shop with a large selection of reasonably priced slabs somewhere in that area, but I can't find it now. Thanks for your help Gerry > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Create your own custom mailing list called Groups with MSN Hotmail ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From kahako at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 19:19:46 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Nov 30 19:21:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack In-Reply-To: <24BC8B6C-6204-11DA-BEFA-000A95773806@mindspring.com> References: <438E3022.6340@Tomaszewski.net> <24BC8B6C-6204-11DA-BEFA-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051130162856.024d04e0@incoming.verizon.net> The Museum Gel is just that---a water-clear gel. It is intended to be put under crystal glasses, goblets, vases, etc. on a level shelf, and will keep them from falling over in an earthquake or if the shelf or cabinet is jostled. The gel is actually a thick liquid, so the surface must be level or it will ooze downhill; when the jar of it is tilted, after a while the contents adjusts its surface to horizontal (I'm looking at a jar now that was tilted in a drawer; I brought it out and set it upright 10 minutes ago and it is beginning to show signs of sliding to be level). I once tried using a dab of the gel to support a tiny cerussite V-twin, and it would not work---the gel flattened out and the cerussite fell over. The good news is that the gel is easy to remove, and can be reused. Aloha, Kitty At 02:48 PM 11/30/2005, Carol Bova wrote: >Anyone have any experience with the wax and gel products? >Carol From kahako at verizon.net Wed Nov 30 19:23:35 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Nov 30 19:24:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack In-Reply-To: <000501c5f615$777db3c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <24BC8B6C-6204-11DA-BEFA-000A95773806@mindspring.com> <000501c5f615$777db3c0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051130172212.024d0250@incoming.verizon.net> You can also go to www.quakehold.com to see their products describes as well as order them. Aloha, Kitty At 03:20 PM 11/30/2005, jabates wrote: >You can order Quake Hold here: http://www.iprepare.com/100sg0111.html