From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sat Oct 1 08:09:51 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sat Oct 1 08:09:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing Message-ID: <200510011509.j91F9pLn008737@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Is this e-mail getting through? I haven't gotten any e-mails from Rockhounds for a couple days. Bob From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sat Oct 1 11:39:00 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sat Oct 1 11:37:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium Message-ID: <433ED7C4.9030309@tenforward.com> Hi Kitty, I went to the archives as (like Bob Loeffler) I have not received a rockhounds posting for the last couple days and see that there have been postings. Have I somehow been dropped from the list? Thank you for your time. All the very best, John From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Oct 1 13:01:07 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Oct 1 13:01:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A real surprise Message-ID: Kitty, You package was a real surprise and the contents were a real treat. The iridescence in the lava (pumice?) is incomparable. A month or two back there was a thread about it and I assumed it was like opal, mother of pearl, labradorite, or one of the other gems we all know. But the specimen you sent are very different than I pictured in my mind. They have an indescribable appearance that the word iridescent can not convey. I need to go into the archives and reread that thread now I've seen a sample. The macadamias and the CD are also real treats. I already have a couple of slack key albums and one by Isreal Kamakawiwo'ole. I rarely play them on the radio because my tongue gets tangled in all those vowels. (I do play Isreal K. since I can say IZ without getting the mic all wet.) Thank you very much. The package contained eye candy, ear candy, and real candy. If you ever need more rocks for school kids let me know. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sat Oct 1 14:05:08 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sat Oct 1 14:05:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Micromounters of New England Message-ID: Great site, Joe. Excellent pictures. Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tblackwood1 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 1 15:09:55 2005 From: tblackwood1 at yahoo.com (Timothy Blackwood) Date: Sat Oct 1 15:09:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Welcome, Tim, what other listservers? In-Reply-To: <00ac01c5c555$0f0efe20$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <20051001220956.49126.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jeanette and all interested, The other discussion groups I belong to are hosted by Yahoo Groups. To gain access you must be a member of Yahoo. This is easy and free. Just go to www.yahoo.com and sign up for a free e-mail account. The username and password you choose will allow access to all of Yahoo's features, including Yahoo Groups. Once you get into Yahoo Groups you can use search terms such as minerals, gems, fossils, rocks, rockhounds, micromounts, and the like to find groups of interest to you. I belong to MineralCollecting (no space), micromounts, rockhounds, rockhoundslist, and trilobites2, just to name a few. They are perfect accompaniments to the information appearing on this list. By the way, this Rockhounds and the rockhounds from Yahoo Groups appear to be different from each other, so no message overlap. :) Hope this helps. :) Tim --- Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > I would be interested in learning a little about these other lists, I need > > more email! ;) > > > > Seriously, the sign-up address and a sentence or two describing the nature > > of each list may well be interesting to more than just me. > > > > > Me too... > Jeanette > Timothy J. Blackwood E-mail: tblackwood1@yahoo.com Phone: (218)328-6272 Home Address: 120 N.W. 5th Street Apt. #101 Cohasset, Minnesota, USA 55721 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From agesilaus at gmail.com Sat Oct 1 15:54:08 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Oct 1 15:54:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing In-Reply-To: <200510011509.j91F9pLn008737@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200510011509.j91F9pLn008737@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: I just got a block of 20 or so. I suspect you shook something loose. BK On 10/1/05, Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Is this e-mail getting through? I haven't gotten any e-mails from > Rockhounds for a couple days. > > Bob > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Oct 1 16:45:18 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Oct 1 16:30:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sauktown Sales References: <200510012047.j91KlkAd022840@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <002401c5c6e2$2e7debc0$6901a8c0@rock3> This month's new additions list is a bit short. I had listed 20 new items, but 5 sold out before I could post this notice! Needless to say, the rest could also go fast. Jim, I don't mind if you post advertisments on this bulletin board, but please sing for your supper a little and just don't blow us off with a few names, localities and your web sight. Tell us something about the specimens you are trying to sell that we don't know. Certainly you know more about the specimens that what you have included. What collection were they from? Why are they different from others of their kind. Is there an interesting war story behind you acquisition of them etc. Rock From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 1 17:05:53 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 1 17:03:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing References: <200510011509.j91F9pLn008737@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <433F23AD.7312@Tomaszewski.net> Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Is this e-mail getting through? I haven't gotten any e-mails from > Rockhounds for a couple days. > > Bob > Bob, The list server got a case of indigestion and was not passing on messages for a few days. The problem has been resolved and all the stuck messages are being delivered now. Kreigh From earlrock at nctv.com Sat Oct 1 17:09:41 2005 From: earlrock at nctv.com (Earl) Date: Sat Oct 1 17:09:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Micromounters of New England Rockhounds Digest, Vol 16, Issue 40 References: <200510012148.j91LmrU9021665@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004101c5c6e5$95c34520$6401a8c0@earl> Joe Mulvey wrote: Subject: [Rockhounds] Micromounters of New England I guess they all spend their free time in the field or behind the microscope - they had no web page. I put together a website to help further their reach. The site is very new, there are not a lot of pix yet, but if anyone wanted to take a look and advise of any problems, I'd appreciate it! I did look, and it looks good to me. Good luck in keeping up with it. I maintain a couple of pages, and finding time to get updates done can be a challenge. regards, Earl From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 1 17:31:15 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 1 17:28:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Welcome, Tim, what other listservers? References: <20051001220956.49126.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <433F299B.DE1@Tomaszewski.net> You can also subscribe to yahoo groups via email without registration, but then you will not be able to see pictures that are posted by members. You can find groups without registering first by going to http://groups.yahoo.com and if you look at the details for a group there will be a subscribe address at the bottom of the writeup you can send an email to in order to join that list. I have a collection of other rockhounding lists on my Links page at http://Tomaszewski.net/Kreigh/Minerals/MineralLinks.shtml and would appreciate learning about any new ones anyone discovers. Kreigh Timothy Blackwood wrote: > > Hi Jeanette and all interested, > > The other discussion groups I belong to are hosted by Yahoo Groups. To gain access you must > be a member of Yahoo. This is easy and free. Just go to www.yahoo.com and sign up for a free > e-mail account. The username and password you choose will allow access to all of Yahoo's > features, including Yahoo Groups. Once you get into Yahoo Groups you can use search terms such as > minerals, gems, fossils, rocks, rockhounds, micromounts, and the like to find groups of interest > to you. I belong to MineralCollecting (no space), micromounts, rockhounds, rockhoundslist, and > trilobites2, just to name a few. They are perfect accompaniments to the information appearing on > this list. By the way, this Rockhounds and the rockhounds from Yahoo Groups appear to be > different from each other, so no message overlap. :) > > Hope this helps. :) > > Tim > > --- Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > > > I would be interested in learning a little about these other lists, I need > > > more email! ;) > > > > > > Seriously, the sign-up address and a sentence or two describing the nature > > > of each list may well be interesting to more than just me. > > > > > > > > > Me too... > > Jeanette > > From rocks4u at prodigy.net Sat Oct 1 17:34:35 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Sat Oct 1 17:44:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Club Donations - old magazines References: <6.0.1.1.2.20050929162104.025340c0@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <433F2B1B.000006.07180@WES-MEDION-1918> I appreciate the input. I'm beginning to see the overall picture I think. Good show!...Thanks to all who took the time to provide input. It's really appreciated. Wes -------Original Message------- From: Jim Small Date: 10/01/05 13:32:38 To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Club Donations - old magazines Wes - Normally I get $0.50 per copy for my duplicate magazine issues. I have paid as much as a dollar per issue on older numbers, but very rarely that much. I have bought as many as two complete (12-issue) years worth for as little as $10. Most of the club shows I have attended sell theirs for $0.50 each. Right now there is a complete set of LJ, 1947 to the present, at eBay. The last one before this sold for a little over $300 (media mail postage must have been at least half that!) and I haven't been following the current one since the day it was listed. KOR, Jim Small Small Wonders Lapidary _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Oct 1 22:49:17 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Oct 1 22:47:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] list of mineral names for spell-checker? Message-ID: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> Greetings, This subject came up on another list--I remember a looooong time ago, someone pointed out a link to a text file somewhere on the web, and it contained thousands of mineral names, varieties, and geological terms. I cannot find it now. Does anyone have a favorite text list they'd like to share or point out, such that it can be imported into various folks' spell checker programs? Thanks, Don From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 2 00:44:31 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sun Oct 2 00:44:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] list of mineral names for spell-checker? References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> > This subject came up on another list--I remember a looooong time ago, > someone pointed out a link to a text file somewhere on the web, and it > contained thousands of mineral names, varieties, and geological terms. I > cannot find it now. Does anyone have a favorite text list they'd like to > share or point out, such that it can be imported into various folks' spell > checker programs? I made one years ago that contained all the names in Fleischer's Glossary of Mineral Names. I use it with Word for Windows. Last time I looked it was still out there on the Web somewhere. I can mail it to you off list if you like. It'll need some updating if you want to include all the recent new minerals (These days I add new ones as I need them in my writing. It also contains some old names as I do a lot of historical research.) But probably someone has done a new one anyway. Mick From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 2 00:46:11 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sun Oct 2 00:46:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing References: <200510011509.j91F9pLn008737@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <433F23AD.7312@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000d01c5c725$5c78b8a0$78f1edc1@mpc1> > The list server got a case of indigestion and was not passing on > messages for a few days. The problem has been resolved and all the stuck > messages are being delivered now. Does this explain why I sometimes get the "RE:" posts, but not the original question or comment? Mick From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 2 09:54:52 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 2 09:53:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] list of mineral names for spell-checker? In-Reply-To: <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> Thanks Mick and Steve. (Steve sent me a copy off-list). What's maddening is that you can be fairly certain that list I mentioned is out there, somewhere. What's even more maddening is that a lot of people will say "I wish there were a list..." Now, I'm a big fan of volunteering, but I realize people's time is worth money. But I'd be willing to pay $2 year for an updated and comprehensive list, and if even 500 people were willing to do so, that's $1000/yr. easy money for someone willing to maintain the list. Yes putting the initial list together (of varieties and synonyms and common geological terms, not just valid mineral species names) would be a monster, but perhaps there could be a one-time initial fee of $5. I'd do it if 1) I had the time and 2) I knew for a fact there were 500 people willing to meet the terms above. However, I'd imagine there are people with the time. Just a thought; nothing ventured, nothing gained, and I've seen a lot of good things come out of a small projeect like this. Best, Don From rpr at heidelberg.edu Sun Oct 2 10:22:22 2005 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Sun Oct 2 10:22:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleveland Micromineral Symposium In-Reply-To: <001001c5a4b5$6bda4670$9b0bbed8@karolzg5f1uiqk> References: <200508190104.j7J14PAO005801@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <001001c5a4b5$6bda4670$9b0bbed8@karolzg5f1uiqk> Message-ID: For those of you in the area, or who may be coming to the area, the Micromineral Symposium of the Cleveland (Ohio) Museum of Natural History will have its annual symposium November 4 (evening) through 6 (afternoon) at the museum. Main speaker is Luiz Menezes from Brazil. The Symposium also includes several additional short talks, workshop sessions and free micromineral samples, a Saturday-night potluck, continental breakfasts and deli tray lunches. Out-of-towners are our guests for the potluck dinner, and some lodging is available with Society members on a first come, first served basis. Registration is $35, or $15 per day. Contact Dick Green, (330) 929-2395. Pete Richards -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Oct 2 10:47:51 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Oct 2 10:45:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing References: <200510011509.j91F9pLn008737@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <433F23AD.7312@Tomaszewski.net> <000d01c5c725$5c78b8a0$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <43401CCD.2360@Tomaszewski.net> Mick Cooper wrote: > > > The list server got a case of indigestion and was not passing on > > messages for a few days. The problem has been resolved and all the stuck > > messages are being delivered now. > > Does this explain why I sometimes get the "RE:" posts, but not the original > question or comment? > > Mick Mick, This was a case of Drizzle's mail server having a problem that prevented the list server from sending mail. When you have a problem receiving certain types of messages it is usually a problem with your ISP's anti-spam filtering that is causing the messages to be incorrectly stopped as spam. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Oct 2 10:55:35 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Oct 2 10:53:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] list of mineral names for spell-checker? References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <43401E9B.321D@Tomaszewski.net> Are you thinking of something like the MINFILE project? http://www.em.gov.bc.ca/Mining/Geolsurv/Minfile/history.htm Mick Cooper wrote: > > > This subject came up on another list--I remember a looooong time ago, > > someone pointed out a link to a text file somewhere on the web, and it > > contained thousands of mineral names, varieties, and geological terms. I > > cannot find it now. Does anyone have a favorite text list they'd like to > > share or point out, such that it can be imported into various folks' spell > > checker programs? > > I made one years ago that contained all the names in Fleischer's Glossary of > Mineral Names. I use it with Word for Windows. Last time I looked it was > still out there on the Web somewhere. I can mail it to you off list if you > like. It'll need some updating if you want to include all the recent new > minerals (These days I add new ones as I need them in my writing. It also > contains some old names as I do a lot of historical research.) But probably > someone has done a new one anyway. > > Mick From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 2 10:55:46 2005 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sun Oct 2 10:55:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] list of mineral names for spell-checker? References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001901c5c77a$84a0dec0$da8c4c0c@LarryRush> Perhaps some publisher, such as Dolphin of "The Dictionary of Geologic Terms" would have the data stored digitally, and would be willing to sell it ?? Still, it would take a lot of time to edit any publication to meet the needs of most of us! Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] list of mineral names for spell-checker? > > Thanks Mick and Steve. (Steve sent me a copy off-list). > > What's maddening is that you can be fairly certain that list I mentioned > is out there, somewhere. What's even more maddening is that a lot of > people will say "I wish there were a list..." Now, I'm a big fan of > volunteering, but I realize people's time is worth money. But I'd be > willing to pay $2 year for an updated and comprehensive list, and if even > 500 people were willing to do so, that's $1000/yr. easy money for someone > willing to maintain the list. Yes putting the initial list together (of > varieties and synonyms and common geological terms, not just valid mineral > species names) would be a monster, but perhaps there could be a one-time > initial fee of $5. I'd do it if 1) I had the time and 2) I knew for a > fact there were 500 people willing to meet the terms above. > > However, I'd imagine there are people with the time. Just a thought; > nothing ventured, nothing gained, and I've seen a lot of good things come > out of a small projeect like this. > > Best, > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 2 11:30:56 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 2 11:29:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] list of mineral names for spell-checker? In-Reply-To: <43401E9B.321D@Tomaszewski.net> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <43401E9B.321D@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <43402760.8040906@verizon.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Are you thinking of something like the MINFILE project? > > http://www.em.gov.bc.ca/Mining/Geolsurv/Minfile/history.htm To be honest, not really, but on the other hand, this is an excellent link! Thanks! Oh, Canada! Make a run for the border--north of the border that is--I've got a list and I'm going to use it. I did a search on what Larry just posted, and guess what, a Yahoo search on "Dictionary of Geologic Terms" yields a wealth of info! I didn't have a lot of time to click through many of the links (I'm trying to do homework, again), but some of them on the first page are excellent. Even if they're not text files and you need to use them on-line interactively, the resources are like gold. Sometimes you just need to right search terms to cut through the noise. You know, I truly appreciate the responses. Despite the friction that sometimes occurs here--and I'd like to think we've all become a bit world-weary in the last few years and that's why tempers are short and moods get dark--but when the chips are down, people on this list come through. Now to go to the other list and remind people what they can find by simply searching and asking, rather than complaining that nobody is helping them . . . Thanks, Don From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 2 11:48:47 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sun Oct 2 11:48:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] list of mineral names for spell-checker? References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> It's always frustrated me that new editions of Fleischer's Glossary never indicated new additions since the last list so I could easily update my dictionary file! Mick From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 2 11:51:15 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sun Oct 2 11:51:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] list of mineral names for spell-checker? References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <43401E9B.321D@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000b01c5c782$44d828e0$78f1edc1@mpc1> > Are you thinking of something like the MINFILE project? Nope. Just a bone-simple text file list of accepted mineral names. Nothing fancy... Mick From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 2 11:53:47 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sun Oct 2 11:53:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing References: <200510011509.j91F9pLn008737@bubbleator.drizzle.com><433F23AD.7312@Tomaszewski.net> <000d01c5c725$5c78b8a0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <43401CCD.2360@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000f01c5c782$9fda31c0$78f1edc1@mpc1> > When you have a problem receiving certain types of messages it is > usually a problem with your ISP's anti-spam filtering that is causing > the messages to be incorrectly stopped as spam. I'm pretty sure that is not the case. I get most of the posts and, it seems, all of the RE's. It's probably just technology being a pain in the ****. In fact I once heard technology as "stuff that doesn't work yet." Since I spend far too much time on software admin. at work I can vouch for the veracity of that!. Mick From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Oct 2 11:57:33 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Oct 2 11:56:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050930185022.03e1bdb0@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: Yes, Kitty, it IS a rainbow... I'll send you the proof off list. If you enhance the levels of the portion of the sky above the arc, a second and much weaker arc emerges. That's the "spectrum" of the second order. The second rainbow was in the picture already but too weak to really stand out. You can barely see it on the left side of the pic in the dark portion of sky just above the arc. It's indeed only the reddish light of the sunset that can produce a nearly monochrome rainbow. You should have known that we Belgians are able to mess up even natural phenomena... Anyone else who wants the photo: just yell and I'll send it (14 Kb , really small file) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox Verzonden: zaterdag 1 oktober 2005 6:59 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium Hi all who are interested in natural phenomena, The following website is neat as a general rule, but today it has a piece on a solar eclipse to be seen in Europe, Africa and the Middle East, followed by one on a mystery rainbow photographed in Belgium. It appeared to occur after sunset, without rain. http://spaceweather.com/ Aloha, Kitty _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Oct 2 12:01:46 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Oct 2 12:00:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing In-Reply-To: <200510011509.j91F9pLn008737@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Bob, your e-mail didn't get through (just kidding, but you knew that, right?) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Bob Loeffler Verzonden: zaterdag 1 oktober 2005 17:10 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Testing Is this e-mail getting through? I haven't gotten any e-mails from Rockhounds for a couple days. Bob _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Oct 2 12:04:33 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Oct 2 12:05:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20050930185022.03e1bdb0@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <200510021905.j92J4YeT009955@outmx020.isp.belgacom.be> Huh, weird phenomenon here in Belgium ? That doesn't surprise me. Everything is weird here. I photographed I very strange rainbow as well, in Tanah Rata, Cameron Highlands, Malaysia this year : the rainbow was upside down, on a steel blue sky... very strange phenomenon. I send a few images of this natural event off-line to Bill & Kitty ; if someone else wants them, please let me know. I cannot post them on my website, as at present I have no software installed for web-page design, and writing html is too tedious for me ! Regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 6:59 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium Hi all who are interested in natural phenomena, The following website is neat as a general rule, but today it has a piece on a solar eclipse to be seen in Europe, Africa and the Middle East, followed by one on a mystery rainbow photographed in Belgium. It appeared to occur after sunset, without rain. http://spaceweather.com/ Aloha, Kitty From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 2 12:08:27 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 2 12:06:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] list of mineral names for spell-checker? In-Reply-To: <000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> <000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <4340302B.7010802@verizon.net> Mick Cooper wrote: > It's always frustrated me that new editions of Fleischer's Glossary > never indicated new additions since the last list so I could easily > update my dictionary file! Indeed... my memory of this is hazy, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong... didn't they publish a brief list of obsolete and discredited mineral names and pass that out at Rochester one year? In any case, you're right, but maybe a letter of request to the authors via the museum would help. I get the impression that Malcolm Back is being groomed to be the new keeper of the book. FYI... since this question might be raised soon... it would be nice to have it in electronic form; but sad to say, as soon as that happened then free copies of it would be floating around everywhere, and it wouldn't be cost-effective or time-effective to produce the book. I'm sure it's a labor of love, just as Matrix magazine was for the dear departed Jay Lininger, and any small overage that could be considered "profit" is more than likely put back into the book in some way. Don From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Oct 2 12:59:56 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Oct 2 12:57:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology By Light Plane References: Message-ID: <000d01c5c78b$dd2506a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Here is a site of spectacular photos with geomorphological subtitles and explainations: http://www.geology.wisc.edu/~maher/air/air00.htm > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sun Oct 2 13:00:01 2005 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sun Oct 2 13:00:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology By Light Plane Message-ID: <36.7bc1970a.30719641@aol.com> wonderful site..thanks Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sun Oct 2 13:08:29 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Sun Oct 2 13:08:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net><000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> <4340302B.7010802@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> Hello the group! I am interested in acquiring a rock that has all three minerals of the A2SO5 polymorph in it (kyanite, andalusite, sillimanite). It is my understanding that such rocks can only be found in a few places around the world. Do any of the localities have web sites from which they sell minerals? If not how would I go about finding a specimen? A pointer in the right direction would be greatly appreciated! Paul in Marietta From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 2 13:28:13 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 2 13:26:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals In-Reply-To: <000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net><000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> <4340302B.7010802@verizon.net> <000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> Paul wrote: > Hello the group! > > I am interested in acquiring a rock that has all three minerals of the > A2SO5 polymorph in it (kyanite, andalusite, sillimanite). It is so funny that you ask that now--the answer is "yes," but of course there is a catch. Yesterday on our geology field trip, we took a loop through Latah County Idaho (and a little beyond--howdy to the folks in Santa, sorry I couldn't stop by) and talked a lot about index minerals and polymorphism. We found garnet schist at the famous Emerald Creek, which also included kyanite that had undergone retrograde metamorphism. None of the others though. However there is one site a few hours from where I live that has the famous polymorph combo of which you speak. I think it's called Freezout, Idaho. I don't know when I'll be able to go there, but I can get a sample to you for free if you'll pay the postage. Our professor passed around a sample in class, and it's not very impressive, and you can barely see the sillimanite. However it does have all three. I'll need to find out exactly where it is. Winter is coming here and I've been advised not to drive too far from home in my car, so I won't be going collecting over winter break. If my academic workload next semester is anything like this one, though, I'll need to wait to spring break to take the trip up there. However, Paul, remind me again, and I'll see what I can do about getting you some of this. Best, Don From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Oct 2 13:33:12 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Sun Oct 2 13:34:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net><000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net><000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1><4340302B.7010802@verizon.net><000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> Message-ID: <005401c5c790$87fefbe0$12b4010a@warren> Paul/Don - Freezeout is aptly named...we've been stopped by snow in the road as late as mid-July! Never tried the area this late in the year, but if you're going to go I'd do it *now*. Lanny's books have maps of the area. Sorry we missed you - Sheesh, Emerald creek is only 10-15 miles away! Julie > Paul wrote: > >> Hello the group! >> >> I am interested in acquiring a rock that has all three minerals of >> the >> A2SO5 polymorph in it (kyanite, andalusite, sillimanite). > > > It is so funny that you ask that now--the answer is "yes," but of course > there is a catch. Yesterday on our geology field trip, we took a loop > through Latah County Idaho (and a little beyond--howdy to the folks in > Santa, sorry I couldn't stop by) From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 2 14:03:34 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 2 14:01:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals (& trip report) In-Reply-To: <005401c5c790$87fefbe0$12b4010a@warren> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net><000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net><000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1><4340302B.7010802@verizon.net><000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> <005401c5c790$87fefbe0$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <43404B26.8080206@verizon.net> Julie Siebel wrote: > > Sorry we missed you - Sheesh, Emerald creek is only 10-15 miles away! What I'm saying is we went right through Santa! It's pretty close by. Collectors: I'd like to report on the micro-garnets of Emerald Creek, briefly. I think most people have heard of Idaho's larger, gem grade garnets, some of which are star garnets, and their purplish hue. (If you haven't, you just did!) Well, we stopped right by the garnet mining company. They dredge the fluvial creek sands for abrasives; as they leave an area, some quantity of garnet sand is left behind and is accessible before they remediate the area and plant over it. This is forest service land and the rules for mining companies are more stringent. The professor said it was OK to take what they left behind in a worked-out area. Since the field trip was about looking at geological formations more so than collecting anything, I barely had time to scoop up handfuls of the burgundy-colored sands and put them in my raincoat pocket. I also had to watch out for the thick, rich, dark brown formations of cow dung all the while. Under the stereo scope, from 7.5x to 100x, many of garnets look like transparent, purplish versions of the moon: round and cratered. However, some retain a general crystal shape, though a bit worn; and a very few retain the crisp, dodecedral faces. Under the transmitted light scope, the color is very pleasant and rich as the light shines up through the garnets from the bottom and is tinted a wine color, though I couldn't appreciate the shapes as much since a transmitted light scope doesn't have the depth of field that a stereo scope does (i.e., a stereo scope provides a deeper, 3D image, where as the focal plane on a standard transmitted scope is much flatter, and therefore any large grains are mostly out of focus and you need to turn the focus knob up and down continually to get an idea of the shape of an object that is any thicker than a few widths of human hair). These garnets form in a shimmering, micaceous schist, and as they weather out, they tumble down the stream and are deposited in layers. It is these sedimentary layers, as I said, that are dredged for use as abrasives and in sandblasting. The Emerald Creek recreational area is a fee dig site where people look for large garnet crystals, especially the prized star garnets. However, for micrmounters and sand collectors, this is an opportunity you should not miss, and you can find this material along Emerald Creek, Idaho, outside of the fee dig site as well. Best, Don From tim at orerockon.com Sun Oct 2 14:56:06 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Oct 2 14:56:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals In-Reply-To: <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> <000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> <4340302B.7010802@verizon.net> <000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> Don, AFAIK the site is on the Grandmother/Grandfather Mtn trail leading NW from Freezeout Saddle; take St. Joe Nat. For. Rd. 301 E from Clarkia. It's snowing up there right now, and you won't be able to get back in until June or July, so don't sweat it :) Lanny knows more... \At 01:28 PM 10/2/2005, you wrote: >It is so funny that you ask that now--the answer is "yes," but of >course there is a catch. Yesterday on our geology field trip, we >took a loop through Latah County Idaho (and a little beyond--howdy >to the folks in Santa, sorry I couldn't stop by) and talked a lot >about index minerals and polymorphism. We found garnet schist at >the famous Emerald Creek, which also included kyanite that had >undergone retrograde metamorphism. None of the others >though. However there is one site a few hours from where I live >that has the famous polymorph combo of which you speak. I think >it's called Freezout, Idaho. I don't know when I'll be able to go >there, but I can get a sample to you for free if you'll pay the >postage. Our professor passed around a sample in class, and it's >not very impressive, and you can barely see the >sillimanite. However it does have all three. > >I'll need to find out exactly where it is. Winter is coming here >and I've been advised not to drive too far from home in my car, so I >won't be going collecting over winter break. If my academic >workload next semester is anything like this one, though, I'll need >to wait to spring break to take the trip up there. However, Paul, >remind me again, and I'll see what I can do about getting you some of this. > >Best, >Don Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Oct 2 15:11:23 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sun Oct 2 15:11:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium References: <200510021905.j92J4YeT009955@outmx020.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <00ab01c5c79e$398d9f30$5f87633f@marilyn> If it would not be to much trouble please send me a copy (email) of your rainbow pic. All the best Steve Travis smtravis@plateautel.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium > Huh, weird phenomenon here in Belgium ? That doesn't surprise me. > Everything is weird here. > I photographed I very strange rainbow as well, in Tanah Rata, Cameron > Highlands, Malaysia this year : the rainbow was > upside down, on a steel blue sky... very strange phenomenon. > I send a few images of this natural event off-line to Bill & Kitty ; if > someone else wants them, please let me know. I > cannot post them on my website, as at present I have no software installed > for web-page design, and writing html is too > tedious for me ! > > Regards, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>>> Belgian minerals >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > Heacox > Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 6:59 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium > > Hi all who are interested in natural phenomena, > > The following website is neat as a general rule, but today it has a piece > on a solar eclipse to be seen in Europe, Africa and the Middle East, > followed by one on a mystery rainbow photographed in Belgium. It appeared > to occur after sunset, without rain. > > http://spaceweather.com/ > > Aloha, Kitty > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From wdeanwelder at yahoo.com Sun Oct 2 15:30:30 2005 From: wdeanwelder at yahoo.com (Dean Welder) Date: Sun Oct 2 15:30:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounding opportunities around Cupertino, CA? In-Reply-To: <433B5225.18C3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20051002223030.23149.qmail@web51113.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Kreigh, I don't have much collecting advice here. Most of my collecting happens serveral-to-many hours away. Depending upon when you arrive, I would recommend a guest visit to one of several different active clubs in the area. My wife and I are field-trip chairs for the Santa Cruz Mineral and Gem society (http://www.scmgs.org/). Meets the 2nd wed of every month. One of my co-workers is the secretary of the Santa Clara Valley Gem and Mineral Society (http://www.scvgms.org/); they meet the 4th (NOT == last) Tuesday of the month. Dean --- Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > I will soon be traveling on business to the Cupertino, CA area and > hope > to get a few evening hours to do some rockhounding. Can anyone > recommend > any collecting locations or rock shops in the area I might visit? > > Thanks! > > Kreigh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ______________________________________________________ Yahoo! for Good Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Oct 2 15:51:56 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Sun Oct 2 15:53:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net><000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1><4340302B.7010802@verizon.net><000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear><434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <007301c5c7a3$ea531fc0$12b4010a@warren> Wow - it's snowing there? That's really weird...Freezeout is about 15 miles from us as the crow flies, and it's sunny and 50 degrees here. It's a bit higher than us, but not *that* much higher. Microclimate, I guess...either that or it's time to batten down the hatches for winter. At least we have our wood in ;) Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:56 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals > Don, AFAIK the site is on the Grandmother/Grandfather Mtn trail leading NW > from Freezeout Saddle; take St. Joe Nat. For. Rd. 301 E from Clarkia. It's > snowing up there right now, and you won't be able to get back in until > June or July, so don't sweat it :) > > Lanny knows more... > > \At 01:28 PM 10/2/2005, you wrote: > >>It is so funny that you ask that now--the answer is "yes," but of course >>there is a catch. Yesterday on our geology field trip, we took a loop >>through Latah County Idaho (and a little beyond--howdy to the folks in >>Santa, sorry I couldn't stop by) and talked a lot about index minerals and >>polymorphism. We found garnet schist at the famous Emerald Creek, which >>also included kyanite that had undergone retrograde metamorphism. None of >>the others though. However there is one site a few hours from where I >>live that has the famous polymorph combo of which you speak. I think it's >>called Freezout, Idaho. I don't know when I'll be able to go there, but I >>can get a sample to you for free if you'll pay the postage. Our professor >>passed around a sample in class, and it's not very impressive, and you can >>barely see the sillimanite. However it does have all three. >> >>I'll need to find out exactly where it is. Winter is coming here and I've >>been advised not to drive too far from home in my car, so I won't be going >>collecting over winter break. If my academic workload next semester is >>anything like this one, though, I'll need to wait to spring break to take >>the trip up there. However, Paul, remind me again, and I'll see what I >>can do about getting you some of this. >> >>Best, >>Don > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com Sun Oct 2 17:22:48 2005 From: dpowell13 at Rochester.rr.com (Darryl Powell) Date: Sun Oct 2 17:23:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another Challenge for Rock Message-ID: <000801c5c7b0$95f09270$2c8da918@6663r01> Dear List, First, I thank those of you who responded to my request for information on Curt Segeler. As always, a number of you came through! A special "thank you" to Rock Currier for writing a fun and lengthy reflection on Curt. It was thoroughly enjoyable. Rock, thank you as well for all the time you spend responding to many list posts. You have often taken the time to write extensively and thoughtfully much to our benefit. So, Rock, here's another challenge for you (and for others as well). What can you tell us about a collector named Robert D. Roots? He wrote an article or two for Rocks and Minerals in the 1950s. Beyond that ???? Thanks to all! Here's wishing you much happiness and good health. Sincerely, Darryl Powell Manchester, NY --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Sun Oct 2 18:20:29 2005 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sun Oct 2 18:20:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] list of mineral names for spell-checker? In-Reply-To: <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: Mick, et al This thread led me to rummage around on some archived zip drives to find the "mineral.dic" file that I got from Mick in June of 1997. I have now reinstalled it as a custom dictionary in Microsoft WORD on my current computer. Thanks for the reminder - it was just the prompt I needed to go looking for the file. I recommend it highly. Life is good and rockhounds@drizzle.com is a great resource. Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 10/2/05, Mick Cooper wrote: > > This subject came up on another list--I remember a looooong time ago, > > someone pointed out a link to a text file somewhere on the web, and it > > contained thousands of mineral names, varieties, and geological terms. I > > cannot find it now. Does anyone have a favorite text list they'd like to > > share or point out, such that it can be imported into various folks' spell > > checker programs? > > I made one years ago that contained all the names in Fleischer's Glossary of > Mineral Names. I use it with Word for Windows. Last time I looked it was > still out there on the Web somewhere. I can mail it to you off list if you > like. It'll need some updating if you want to include all the recent new > minerals (These days I add new ones as I need them in my writing. It also > contains some old names as I do a lot of historical research.) But probably > someone has done a new one anyway. > > Mick From carroll4 at mindspring.com Sun Oct 2 18:38:05 2005 From: carroll4 at mindspring.com (Claudia Carroll) Date: Sun Oct 2 18:38:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock, Mineral and Gem show Message-ID: <410-2200510131385253@mindspring.com> Hello all, If you're in the Huntsville Alabama area from 14 - 16 October, there will be the annual Rock, Mineral and Gem show put on by the local collectors group. James --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Sun Oct 2 18:48:46 2005 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sun Oct 2 18:48:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock trimmers In-Reply-To: <9daa8d1c1d503d48600b89dcd66eb176@attminerals.com> References: <9daa8d1c1d503d48600b89dcd66eb176@attminerals.com> Message-ID: John, Thanks for the reply. I think the trimmer I saw at the show was the small trimmer that you have for sale at $70. What got me excited at the Springfield show was seeing it on sale for $50 but then there were all of those mineral specimens to look at and I did not get back to buy it. Thanks again and I will consider your site if I can't find it at a better price. Nate Martin On 9/30/05, John Attard wrote: > Nathan, > > If you are looking for rock trimmers have a look at our site under > "Equipment" > > John > > www.attminerals.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From mineral.maertens at att.net Sun Oct 2 19:18:46 2005 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan Maertens) Date: Sun Oct 2 19:19:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral spell checker In-Reply-To: <200510030104.j9314Afx019230@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Did you consider George Campbell's http://www.osomin.com/spelling.htm Who It's For The dictionary is designed for use in all Microsoft word processing, spreadsheet, and other Microsoft software, such as FrontPage, which uses the file custom.dic as an additional spelling dictionary. It is a simple text file with that name, so other programs which use pure text files may also be able to use it with adaptation. Johan Maertens mineral dot maertens at att dot net Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite Collectors Association Visit http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ Cat urine glows under a black light. Only a rockhound would discover that... From lanny at lrream.com Sun Oct 2 19:40:03 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sun Oct 2 19:38:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> <000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> <4340302B.7010802@verizon.net> <000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> Hi Paul, Don and Tim, This is very interesting, I've never paid much attention to the reports of all three occurring in one spot in that region. The metamorphism grade is so screwed up in the region I wonder if there aren't several places where all three occur. Makes me wish I had ready access to a geology library! As to the snow falling up there now, probable; today's weather forecast is for the snow level to drop down to 5,500 feet tonight and tomorrow. However, it is only October, and most likely it well melt off in a day or two, or not. The road is in fairly good condition, and up to Freezeout Mountain area it is accessible by car. If you have some time to drive up in the next few weeks Don, give it a try. Should be no problem, if you hit snow, turn around and come back down! Of course, this is about the time of the year when that area is crawling with hunters; it's amazing how many trailers and hunter camps can be crammed into the smallest flat areas along that ridge-top road. If you do go up, from the Freezeout area easterly, look in the road for almandine crystals. They are common all through there, most are reddish granular crystals, but good euhedral crystals are not exactly scarce. Freezeout has an area where fairly good almandine crystals to about 6 inches or more across have been found; there is nice blue kyanite just north of that spot. Regards, Lanny On Oct 2, 2005, at 2:56 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Don, AFAIK the site is on the Grandmother/Grandfather Mtn trail > leading NW from Freezeout Saddle; take St. Joe Nat. For. Rd. 301 E > from Clarkia. It's snowing up there right now, and you won't be able > to get back in until June or July, so don't sweat it :) > > Lanny knows more... > > \At 01:28 PM 10/2/2005, you wrote: > >> It is so funny that you ask that now--the answer is "yes," but of >> course there is a catch. Yesterday on our geology field trip, we >> took a loop through Latah County Idaho (and a little beyond--howdy to >> the folks in Santa, sorry I couldn't stop by) and talked a lot about >> index minerals and polymorphism. We found garnet schist at the >> famous Emerald Creek, which also included kyanite that had undergone >> retrograde metamorphism. None of the others though. However there >> is one site a few hours from where I live that has the famous >> polymorph combo of which you speak. I think it's called Freezout, >> Idaho. I don't know when I'll be able to go there, but I can get a >> sample to you for free if you'll pay the postage. Our professor >> passed around a sample in class, and it's not very impressive, and >> you can barely see the sillimanite. However it does have all three. >> >> I'll need to find out exactly where it is. Winter is coming here and >> I've been advised not to drive too far from home in my car, so I >> won't be going collecting over winter break. If my academic workload >> next semester is anything like this one, though, I'll need to wait to >> spring break to take the trip up there. However, Paul, remind me >> again, and I'll see what I can do about getting you some of this. >> >> Best, >> Don > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Oct 2 19:45:45 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Oct 2 19:45:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology By Light Plane References: <000d01c5c78b$dd2506a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <008101c5c7c4$8dce6b80$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Interesting. Some nice old aerial photos. I shoot from planes when I'm flying on vacation, at 20 to 40 thousand feet you lose some detail! I did fly in a small plane over the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and the West Elk Mountains in Colorado in 1987 and in a helicopter around Grouse Mountain near Vancouver in 1986. Over the years I have taken thousands of geology - geomorphology images for classes, club talks and of course, the main reason -- just for the fun of it! I've done a number of programs "Geology for Travelers" and part of it is seeing geology from the air. (I also shoot a lot of cloud photos. This summer I got my 1st photo looking DOWN at a vapor trail from another jet!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 3:59 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology By Light Plane > Here is a site of spectacular photos with geomorphological subtitles and > explainations: > http://www.geology.wisc.edu/~maher/air/air00.htm > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 2 19:57:37 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 2 19:55:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals In-Reply-To: <0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> <000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> <4340302B.7010802@verizon.net> <000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> <0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> Message-ID: <43409E21.3040202@verizon.net> Lanny wrote: > Hi Paul, Don and Tim, > > This is very interesting, I've never paid much attention to the reports > of all three occurring in one spot in that region. Hi Lanny, I'll get the locality from my professor. > If you have some time > to drive up in the next few weeks Don, give it a try. Time is the fire in which we burn. But I'll see what I can do. Five classes and two research projects...eeesh... but I sold a nice specimen that I didn't need and my 10" slab saw, therefore I can eat until the end of the semester, so life is good. Well, half the battle is knowing where to get the stuff for Paul, and we know it's out there. It's just a matter of time before I can get it. I don't imagine my prof will let me clomp off a piece of his... he's an igneous petrologist and he talks about it like it's the best rock on earth. Whatever. Best, Don From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Oct 2 18:06:46 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Oct 2 20:08:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Freezeout Mountain, ID (was: polymorph minerals) References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net><000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1><4340302B.7010802@verizon.net><000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear><434042DD.8060607@verizon.net><6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> <0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> Message-ID: <001301c5c7b6$c247fc40$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Lanny writes: > if you hit snow, turn around and come back down! Believe it! I've been dumb enough to try to blast through some snow drifts up there (in July!) and spent an hour digging my little Mazda truck out. Bring a shovel if you're as reckless as I am. Julie and I found a lot of small almandine garnet and weathered staurolite in mica schist the one time we made it up there (out of 4 tries). Also some iffy kyanite. We may try a trip up there next weekend if the weather holds. We got about 6" of rain Friday and Saturday. Clear today but the temperature is dropping fast and the weather is a comin' soon. John From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 2 20:24:49 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 2 20:22:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Freezeout Mountain, ID In-Reply-To: <001301c5c7b6$c247fc40$6400a8c0@mshome.net> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net><000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1><4340302B.7010802@verizon.net><000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear><434042DD.8060607@verizon.net><6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> <0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> <001301c5c7b6$c247fc40$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <4340A481.5000504@verizon.net> John Siebel wrote: > Julie and I found a lot of small almandine garnet and weathered staurolite > in mica schist the one time we made it up there (out of 4 tries). Also some > iffy kyanite. We may try a trip up there next weekend if the weather holds. > We got about 6" of rain Friday and Saturday. Oh yeah I just loved that rain. Well I've lived here since Aug. 5 and that was the first real rain I've seen--strange weather here. Of course I was out in it all day and under-dressed for the sudden chill, and got 2 lbs. of clay stuck to my boots at the fossil site. I'll see the geology prof tomorrow and try to get a more exact locality. for you. It can't be too far from where you've been already. Don From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Oct 2 18:35:36 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Oct 2 20:37:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Freezeout Mountain, ID References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net><000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net><000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1><4340302B.7010802@verizon.net><000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear><434042DD.8060607@verizon.net><6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com><0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com><001301c5c7b6$c247fc40$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <4340A481.5000504@verizon.net> Message-ID: <002501c5c7ba$c64b5f40$6400a8c0@mshome.net> DonH wrote: > Oh yeah I just loved that rain. Well I've lived here since Aug. 5 and > that was the first real rain I've seen--strange weather here. Of course > I was out in it all day and under-dressed for the sudden chill, and got > 2 lbs. of clay stuck to my boots at the fossil site. Heaviest rain I've seen here Don. But the weather seems strange everywhere right now. At least it wasn't snow or we'd be digging out from the second story windows! Here in Pokey Creek, 3 miles up from Santa, they say that there are three seasons; Mud, Dust and Ice. Was that "fossil site" Fossil Bowl? Haven't been there yet (smacking myself as I write)? What did you find? And shouldn't you be doing your homework? :)) John From lanny at lrream.com Sun Oct 2 20:53:45 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sun Oct 2 20:52:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals (& trip report) In-Reply-To: <43404B26.8080206@verizon.net> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net><000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net><000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1><4340302B.7010802@verizon.net><000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> <005401c5c790$87fefbe0$12b4010a@warren> <43404B26.8080206@verizon.net> Message-ID: <5c61b00937392d2aa2ccc34a20270290@lrream.com> Hi Don, Almost forgot. Take another look at those tiny garnets from the Emerald Creek area. Many of them are cubes. Whereas cube faces on macro-size garnets are uncommon, and cubes are rare, in the micro-size crystals from the Emerald Creek area, and some streams tested in Maryland and Virginia (Jack Nelson, 1998, Cubic Garnets Found in Maryland and Virginia Streams: Mineral News, 14-9:1,3,4,12, Sept. 1998), we found a lot of cubes. Jack made a count of the garnet sands he had from Emerald Creek and found that 1.17% of the tiny crystals were cubes. I didn't make a count of those I have, but the cubes are common. Regards, Lanny On Oct 2, 2005, at 2:03 PM, DonH wrote: > > > What I'm saying is we went right through Santa! It's pretty close by. > > Collectors: I'd like to report on the micro-garnets of Emerald Creek, > briefly. I think most people have heard of Idaho's larger, gem grade > garnets, some of which are star garnets, and their purplish hue. (If > you haven't, you just did!) Well, we stopped right by the garnet > mining company. They dredge the fluvial creek sands for abrasives; as > they leave an area, some quantity of garnet sand is left behind and is > accessible before they remediate the area and plant over it. This is > forest service land and the rules for mining companies are more > stringent. The professor said it was OK to take what they left behind > in a worked-out area. Since the field trip was about looking at > geological formations more so than collecting anything, I barely had > time to scoop up handfuls of the burgundy-colored sands and put them > in my raincoat pocket. I also had to watch out for the thick, rich, > dark brown formations of cow dung all the while. Under the stereo > scope, from 7.5x to 100x, many of garnets look like transparent, > purplish versions of the moon: round and cratered. However, some > retain a general crystal shape, though a bit worn; and a very few > retain the crisp, dodecedral faces. Under the transmitted light > scope, the color is very pleasant and rich as the light shines up > through the garnets from the bottom and is tinted a wine color, though > I couldn't appreciate the shapes as much since a transmitted light > scope doesn't have the depth of field that a stereo scope does (i.e., > a stereo scope provides a deeper, 3D image, where as the focal plane > on a standard transmitted scope is much flatter, and therefore any > large grains are mostly out of focus and you need to turn the focus > knob up and down continually to get an idea of the shape of an object > that is any thicker than a few widths of human hair). > > These garnets form in a shimmering, micaceous schist, and as they > weather out, they tumble down the stream and are deposited in layers. > It is these sedimentary layers, as I said, that are dredged for use as > abrasives and in sandblasting. > > The Emerald Creek recreational area is a fee dig site where people > look for large garnet crystals, especially the prized star garnets. > However, for micrmounters and sand collectors, this is an opportunity > you should not miss, and you can find this material along Emerald > Creek, Idaho, outside of the fee dig site as well. > > Best, > Don > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 2 21:27:09 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 2 21:25:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Freezeout Mountain, ID (& fossils) In-Reply-To: <002501c5c7ba$c64b5f40$6400a8c0@mshome.net> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net><000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net><000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1><4340302B.7010802@verizon.net><000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear><434042DD.8060607@verizon.net><6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com><0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com><001301c5c7b6$c247fc40$6400a8c0@mshome.net> <4340A481.5000504@verizon.net> <002501c5c7ba$c64b5f40$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <4340B31D.9040106@verizon.net> John Siebel wrote: > Was that "fossil site" Fossil Bowl? Haven't been there yet (smacking myself > as I write)? What did you find? Unfortunately we didn't collect there, we just stood in the mud and listened to the story of how the shallow lake basin filled with sediment and trapped lots of plants. Here's a super-mini trip report: someone on a field trip last week found a nearly complete fossil fish, minus the tail! Those are rare however. Mostly, by the reports, you find a lot of well-preserved plant material. From what I could see, the site is small, but sections of sedimentary rock are falling out of the cliff right at your feet. The layers are well laminated along bedding planes and separate easily, even by hand cracking, but are better done with a butter knife and some gentle finesse. Because of the anoxic environment, especially in the gray layers of volcanic ash, some of the plant material is quite well preserved, to the point where original organic matter and sections of DNA have been recovered. All in all, it seems like an easy day of fossil hunting, the fee is cheap, and you can stay there all day and the owner doesn't charge by how much you take. Having been there, but not collected yet, I would give it a positive recommendation anyway. I'll write a real report once I get to collect there. And shouldn't you be doing your homework? > :)) Oh not you too with that. I do homework all the time--and I must write a trip report and this helps flesh it out. So pfffffffffft (<--raspberry). Also, since U.I. is a land grant institution and you and Julie and Lanny are citizens of Idaho, I'm providing a public service to my constituency. Pffffffft (<--another raspberry) Of course my dear neighbor, I really should try to do some soil water capacity problems for extra credit to turn in tomorrow... Nighty-night, Don From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Oct 2 22:02:18 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Oct 2 21:59:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology By Light Plane References: <000d01c5c78b$dd2506a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <008101c5c7c4$8dce6b80$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <002d01c5c7d7$a1df7700$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I always get the window seat in a commercial airplane if I am flying over the western part of the country where I can look down on places I have been on the ground and to see the geomorphology. It is much better from a small plane. To me, it is one of the more interesting aspects of geology and it gives you a better sense of the scale and timeframe of the natural processes that are ongoing. I don't find things like nomeclature lists very interesting. I am not a mineral collector, although I will go on a least a half dozen field trips a year, mainly collecting lapidary and gem material. I do have a nice collection of petrified woods I have collected myself. Plate techtonics, cooling of the earth, similarity of continental features from Gondwana, geomorphology, glacial periods and how they fit together into a cohesive force shaping the earth and our destiny, now that is fascinating! Is evolution really driven by geological processes? Are we merely dancing at the end of strings rooted in the Big Bang? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology By Light Plane > Interesting. Some nice old aerial photos. I shoot from planes when I'm > flying on vacation, at 20 to 40 thousand feet you lose some detail! I did > fly in a small plane over the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and the West Elk > Mountains in Colorado in 1987 and in a helicopter around Grouse Mountain > near Vancouver in 1986. Over the years I have taken thousands of geology - > geomorphology images for classes, club talks and of course, the main > reason -- just for the fun of it! I've done a number of programs "Geology > for Travelers" and part of it is seeing geology from the air. (I also shoot > a lot of cloud photos. This summer I got my 1st photo looking DOWN at a > vapor trail from another jet!) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 3:59 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology By Light Plane > > > > Here is a site of spectacular photos with geomorphological subtitles and > > explainations: > > http://www.geology.wisc.edu/~maher/air/air00.htm > > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 2 23:24:39 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sun Oct 2 23:24:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral spell checker References: Message-ID: <047c01c5c7e3$233d4a10$78f1edc1@mpc1> > Did you consider George Campbell's > http://www.osomin.com/spelling.htm Sounds good though George's advice on using it in Word is incomplete. Word can have several dictionaries open at once so there's no need to overwrite or incorporate your custom.dic file. Mick From rockcurrier at cs.com Mon Oct 3 02:11:32 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Oct 3 02:03:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List of mineral names for a spell checker References: <200510030104.j9314Ag4019230@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <005b01c5c7fa$72db4010$36e3a5d8@rock5> If you are thinking of distributing a list of mineral names for free distribution or for even a modest profit I would caution you against mentioning where the names came from. The same would go for their chemical formulas and other general data about them. You will almost certainly be using copyrighted sources and to reveal those sources could get you in legal trouble. "Oh", I can hear you say, "You can't copyright mineral names or data". Well, in some cases you can. If you are in the business of making maps for instance, what is to keep a competitor from copying your map? This has happened often enough. The rip off artist makes a number of changes in the map and makes it look a little different. Well, the serious map makers usually put in a number of bogus entries and misspelled entries (known only to them) and then when they appear on the copied map they take the copy maker to court and win with little effort because those bogus entries and misspelled entries in the copied map win the case for him. So this same principal can theoretically be applied to mineral lists although I don't think I have ever heard of a successful prosecution or even an attempted prosecution. If you make a list for distribution make sure the entries are from different sources or pay someone like the Fersman Museum in Moscow for the use of their list. They may even let you use it for what ever purposed if you buy their rather inexpensive CD. For some years now I have been involved in the creation of a computer program for cataloguing mineral specimens and making labels and reports from the data in the databases. As a small part of this effort we created a Species database based on the data in Fleischer's Glossary of Mineral Species. I then thought that I should talk to Joe Mandarino and get permission to use the data in our Species database and I said I would pay for the privilege of using his data, within reason. He did not initially say no, but said he would think about it. A couple of weeks later I got a cease and desist letter threatening legal action if we did not immediately remove the data from our database. It seems that the copyright is now vested with Fleischer's son who is a lawyer. What a shock and learning experience that was. Well, we did cease and desist and I went to the Fersman people and cut a deal. They offered to let me use their data for free but I insisted in paying for the use of their data. If you pull your data from multiple sources it is doubtful that anyone is going to be able to prove that you copied it from any particular source to the extent that it would be worth taking someone to court. Dick Bideaux told me when he was writing his Handbook of Minerals that he warned Joe Mandarino not to use his localities in Joe's upcoming Encyclopedia of Minerals. Bad blood all around from the sounds of it. Rock From tim at orerockon.com Mon Oct 3 03:32:45 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Oct 3 03:32:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals In-Reply-To: <007301c5c7a3$ea531fc0$12b4010a@warren> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> <000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> <4340302B.7010802@verizon.net> <000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> <007301c5c7a3$ea531fc0$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051003033148.028d4340@orerockon.com> Well maybe not NOW but it is routinely snowed in by October. It's a microclimate effect. That's why there is so much snow left in June. At 03:51 PM 10/2/2005, you wrote: >Wow - it's snowing there? That's really weird...Freezeout is about >15 miles from us as the crow flies, and it's sunny and 50 degrees >here. It's a bit higher than us, but not *that* much higher. >Microclimate, I guess...either that or it's time to batten down the >hatches for winter. At least we have our wood in ;) > >Julie > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:56 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals > > >>Don, AFAIK the site is on the Grandmother/Grandfather Mtn trail >>leading NW from Freezeout Saddle; take St. Joe Nat. For. Rd. 301 E >>from Clarkia. It's snowing up there right now, and you won't be >>able to get back in until June or July, so don't sweat it :) >> >>Lanny knows more... >> >>\At 01:28 PM 10/2/2005, you wrote: >> >>>It is so funny that you ask that now--the answer is "yes," but of >>>course there is a catch. Yesterday on our geology field trip, we >>>took a loop through Latah County Idaho (and a little beyond--howdy >>>to the folks in Santa, sorry I couldn't stop by) and talked a lot >>>about index minerals and polymorphism. We found garnet schist at >>>the famous Emerald Creek, which also included kyanite that had >>>undergone retrograde metamorphism. None of the others >>>though. However there is one site a few hours from where I live >>>that has the famous polymorph combo of which you speak. I think >>>it's called Freezout, Idaho. I don't know when I'll be able to go >>>there, but I can get a sample to you for free if you'll pay the >>>postage. Our professor passed around a sample in class, and it's >>>not very impressive, and you can barely see the >>>sillimanite. However it does have all three. >>> >>>I'll need to find out exactly where it is. Winter is coming here >>>and I've been advised not to drive too far from home in my car, so >>>I won't be going collecting over winter break. If my academic >>>workload next semester is anything like this one, though, I'll >>>need to wait to spring break to take the trip up there. However, >>>Paul, remind me again, and I'll see what I can do about getting >>>you some of this. >>> >>>Best, >>>Don >> >>Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >>Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From geenet2 at mchsi.com Mon Oct 3 05:57:18 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Mon Oct 3 05:57:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology By Light Plane References: <000d01c5c78b$dd2506a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <008101c5c7c4$8dce6b80$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <00a901c5c819$fcb25390$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> I really loved this site! Every plane trip I take I'm glued to the window the whole time with or without my camera. I was really lucky last trip to Salt Lake City, we got a NEW airplane with nice unscratched windows and got some great shots from Texas to Utah. Lots of interesting landforms which I wish I knew more about. I am fascinated by changes in the face of the land when you go from forested southern Gulf area to the naked eroded plains then canyons and mountains of the West. Oh, to be an eagle and fly wherever I want... Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Geology By Light Plane > Interesting. Some nice old aerial photos. I shoot from planes when I'm > flying on vacation, at 20 to 40 thousand feet you lose some detail! I did > fly in a small plane over the Black Canyon of the Gunnison and the West > Elk Mountains in Colorado in 1987 and in a helicopter around Grouse > Mountain near Vancouver in 1986. Over the years I have taken thousands of > geology - geomorphology images for classes, club talks and of course, the > main reason -- just for the fun of it! I've done a number of programs > "Geology for Travelers" and part of it is seeing geology from the air. (I > also shoot a lot of cloud photos. This summer I got my 1st photo looking > DOWN at a vapor trail from another jet!) > > From smkell45 at aol.com Mon Oct 3 07:45:53 2005 From: smkell45 at aol.com (smkell45@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 3 07:46:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meyerhofferite and fluorescence Message-ID: <8C796404A3A882E-B78-1004C@FWM-R12.sysops.aol.com> I recently bought a specimen of Meyerhofferite ps after Inyoite, from the Mt. Blanco mine in Death Valley. Under sw the Meyerhofferite does not fluoresces but the granular matrix does. It appears to be an orangy color. It also phosphoresces a slightly bluish white, for a period of 10 to 15 seconds. Anyone have any ideas about the possible minerals in the matrix. Mindat indicated that Colemanite, and Ulexite are also present in this location. smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Mon Oct 3 08:27:52 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Mon Oct 3 08:28:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> <000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1><4340302B.7010802@verizon.net> <000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear><434042DD.8060607@verizon.net><6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com><0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> <43409E21.3040202@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001e01c5c82f$05551f90$6401a8c0@maingear> I never cease to be amazed at the level of competence and assistance a person gets from this list. Keep up the good work people!! Paul in Marietta ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 10:57 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals > Lanny wrote: > > > Hi Paul, Don and Tim, > > > > This is very interesting, I've never paid much attention to the reports > > of all three occurring in one spot in that region. > > Hi Lanny, I'll get the locality from my professor. > > > If you have some time > > to drive up in the next few weeks Don, give it a try. > > Time is the fire in which we burn. But I'll see what I can do. Five > classes and two research projects...eeesh... but I sold a nice specimen > that I didn't need and my 10" slab saw, therefore I can eat until the > end of the semester, so life is good. > > Well, half the battle is knowing where to get the stuff for Paul, and we > know it's out there. It's just a matter of time before I can get it. I > don't imagine my prof will let me clomp off a piece of his... he's an > igneous petrologist and he talks about it like it's the best rock on > earth. Whatever. > > Best, > Don > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From albalmer at att.net Mon Oct 3 08:35:29 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Oct 3 08:31:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List of mineral names for a spell checker In-Reply-To: <005b01c5c7fa$72db4010$36e3a5d8@rock5> References: <200510030104.j9314Ag4019230@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <005b01c5c7fa$72db4010$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <43414FC1.2030008@att.net> Rock Currier wrote: > If you are thinking of distributing a list of mineral names for free > distribution or for even a modest profit I would caution you against > mentioning where the names came from. The same would go for their chemical > formulas and other general data about them. You will almost certainly be > using copyrighted sources and to reveal those sources could get you in legal > trouble. "Oh", I can hear you say, "You can't copyright mineral names or > data". Well, in some cases you can. You can't copyright the names or data, but you can copyright a collection of such. However, I disagree with your advice about not mentioning where you copied such a collection. That won't help at all, no more than closing your eyes while crossing a busy street will keep you from being run over. The actions you describe below are appropriate: Get permission. Or make your own list, from independent sources. >If you are in the business of making > maps for instance, what is to keep a competitor from copying your map? This > has happened often enough. The rip off artist makes a number of changes in > the map and makes it look a little different. Well, the serious map makers > usually put in a number of bogus entries and misspelled entries (known only > to them) and then when they appear on the copied map they take the copy > maker to court and win with little effort because those bogus entries and > misspelled entries in the copied map win the case for him. > So this same principal can theoretically be applied to mineral lists > although I don't think I have ever heard of a successful prosecution or even > an attempted prosecution. If you make a list for distribution make sure the > entries are from different sources or pay someone like the Fersman Museum in > Moscow for the use of their list. They may even let you use it for what ever > purposed if you buy their rather inexpensive CD. > > For some years now I have been involved in the creation of a computer > program for cataloguing mineral specimens and making labels and reports from > the data in the databases. As a small part of this effort we created a > Species database based on the data in Fleischer's Glossary of Mineral > Species. I then thought that I should talk to Joe Mandarino and get > permission to use the data in our Species database and I said I would pay > for the privilege of using his data, within reason. He did not initially say > no, but said he would think about it. A couple of weeks later I got a cease > and desist letter threatening legal action if we did not immediately remove > the data from our database. It seems that the copyright is now vested with > Fleischer's son who is a lawyer. What a shock and learning experience that > was. Well, we did cease and desist and I went to the Fersman people and cut > a deal. They offered to let me use their data for free but I insisted in > paying for the use of their data. > > If you pull your data from multiple sources it is doubtful that anyone is > going to be able to prove that you copied it from any particular source to > the extent that it would be worth taking someone to court. Dick Bideaux told > me when he was writing his Handbook of Minerals that he warned Joe Mandarino > not to use his localities in Joe's upcoming Encyclopedia of Minerals. Bad > blood all around from the sounds of it. > > Rock > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Oct 3 09:13:24 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Oct 3 09:15:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium In-Reply-To: <00ab01c5c79e$398d9f30$5f87633f@marilyn> Message-ID: <200510031614.j93GDQWs021561@outmx027.isp.belgacom.be> Voil? ! Any explanation for this strange phenomenon ? Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Steve & Marilyn Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 12:11 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium If it would not be to much trouble please send me a copy (email) of your rainbow pic. All the best Steve Travis smtravis@plateautel.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 1:04 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium > Huh, weird phenomenon here in Belgium ? That doesn't surprise me. > Everything is weird here. > I photographed I very strange rainbow as well, in Tanah Rata, Cameron > Highlands, Malaysia this year : the rainbow was > upside down, on a steel blue sky... very strange phenomenon. > I send a few images of this natural event off-line to Bill & Kitty ; if > someone else wants them, please let me know. I > cannot post them on my website, as at present I have no software installed > for web-page design, and writing html is too > tedious for me ! > > Regards, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>>> Belgian minerals >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > Heacox > Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 6:59 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium > > Hi all who are interested in natural phenomena, > > The following website is neat as a general rule, but today it has a piece > on a solar eclipse to be seen in Europe, Africa and the Middle East, > followed by one on a mystery rainbow photographed in Belgium. It appeared > to occur after sunset, without rain. > > http://spaceweather.com/ > > Aloha, Kitty > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) image/jpeg image/jpeg --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Oct 3 09:26:19 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Oct 3 09:24:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List of mineral names for a spell checker In-Reply-To: <43414FC1.2030008@att.net> References: <200510030104.j9314Ag4019230@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <005b01c5c7fa$72db4010$36e3a5d8@rock5> <43414FC1.2030008@att.net> Message-ID: <43415BAB.9060909@verizon.net> Al Balmer wrote: > Rock Currier wrote: > >> If you are thinking of distributing a list of mineral names for free >> distribution or for even a modest profit I would caution you against >> mentioning where the names came from. Rock, Thanks for the advice. Indeed I am painfully familiar with Title 17 USC and all its painful interpretations. The "bad map" trick is also well known. As someone else said, you can't copyright factual information, just the presentation of it. Individual mineral names are maintained by the IMA and are a matter of public record. If someone copied the entire entry for each mineral line-by-line out of Fleischer's Glossary, that is definitely a problem! Interesting note about the locality list from Bideaux's book. That is a more clear-cut instance: A list of localities includes some, excludes others, and is presented in a certain way. There is definitely a style to that presentation. Thanks again for the info and I'm sure it has given pause for thought to a few folks. best, Don From lanny at lrream.com Mon Oct 3 11:09:43 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Oct 3 11:08:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals In-Reply-To: <43409E21.3040202@verizon.net> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> <000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> <4340302B.7010802@verizon.net> <000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> <0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> <43409E21.3040202@verizon.net> Message-ID: <50dc79716ef95d741c2996a7937ac9d4@lrream.com> Hi Don, We'll have to get up there next summer; I'm not much inspired to try to get up on the divide in the rain/snow with the temps in the 40s. I have another friend who wants to go up there and look for garnets and staurolite again. There is a huge area east of Emerald Creek with kyanite, staurolite, almandine and a little andalusite; it runs almost to the Montana border. Regards, Lanny On Oct 2, 2005, at 7:57 PM, DonH wrote: > Lanny wrote: > >> Hi Paul, Don and Tim, >> This is very interesting, I've never paid much attention to the >> reports of all three occurring in one spot in that region. > > Hi Lanny, I'll get the locality from my professor. > >> If you have some time to drive up in the next few weeks Don, give it >> a try. > > Time is the fire in which we burn. But I'll see what I can do. Five > classes and two research projects...eeesh... but I sold a nice > specimen that I didn't need and my 10" slab saw, therefore I can eat > until the end of the semester, so life is good. > > Well, half the battle is knowing where to get the stuff for Paul, and > we know it's out there. It's just a matter of time before I can get > it. I don't imagine my prof will let me clomp off a piece of his... > he's an igneous petrologist and he talks about it like it's the best > rock on earth. Whatever. > > Best, > Don > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From lanny at lrream.com Mon Oct 3 11:14:50 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Oct 3 11:13:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Freezeout Mountain, ID (was: polymorph minerals) In-Reply-To: <001301c5c7b6$c247fc40$6400a8c0@mshome.net> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net><000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1><4340302B.7010802@verizon.net><000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear><434042DD.8060607@verizon.net><6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> <0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> <001301c5c7b6$c247fc40$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: Hi John, The forecast appears to be saying little or no precipitation for the next week, but it changes fast sometimes. Good luck. There is a big difference between trying to go up too soon in the late spring and early summer and getting stuck in a snowbank that is two feet deep, and driving in 2-5 inches of newly fallen wet snow early in the season. It is generaly much easier to drive in the the latter than the former, although you could still slide off the road. Considering that a lot of that road is cut out of steep mountainsides, sliding off could give you a ride that is a lot more thrilling than you bargained for. Good luck if you go up. Take a look in the road bead and roadcuts, as well as any outcrops, there is a lot of almandine up there, kyanite is common in some areas (especially Goat Mountain to Black Dome, and staurolite is scattered here and there too. Great scenery also! Regards, Lanny On Oct 2, 2005, at 6:06 PM, John Siebel wrote: > Lanny writes: >> if you hit snow, turn around and come back down! > > Believe it! I've been dumb enough to try to blast through some snow > drifts > up there (in July!) and spent an hour digging my little Mazda truck > out. > Bring a shovel if you're as reckless as I am. > > Julie and I found a lot of small almandine garnet and weathered > staurolite > in mica schist the one time we made it up there (out of 4 tries). Also > some > iffy kyanite. We may try a trip up there next weekend if the weather > holds. > We got about 6" of rain Friday and Saturday. Clear today but the > temperature > is dropping fast and the weather is a comin' soon. > > John > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 3 11:57:59 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Oct 3 11:58:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sauktown Sales In-Reply-To: <002401c5c6e2$2e7debc0$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <20051003185759.68246.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rock, If my only participation in this list were to place ads, I'd consider your criticism to be justified. I do, however, participate in the list in many ways- offering answeres, posing questions, commenting on various threads, etc. I don't always have something interesting to say about the specimens on my sales list, and prefer to keep my ads short and sweet. If I have something interesting to say, I'd prefer to put in a separate posting, so that all would see it. Remember, the purpose of "AD:" in the subject line is to allow those who wish to do so to delete without reading. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales --- Rock Currier wrote: > This month's new additions list is a bit short. I > had > listed 20 new items, but 5 sold out before I could > post this notice! Needless to say, the rest could > also > go fast. > > Jim, I don't mind if you post advertisments on this > bulletin board, but > please sing for your supper a little and just don't > blow us off with a few > names, localities and your web sight. Tell us > something about the specimens > you are trying to sell that we don't know. Certainly > you know more about the > specimens that what you have included. What > collection were they from? Why > are they different from others of their kind. Is > there an interesting war > story behind you acquisition of them etc. > Rock > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From SMKELL45 at aol.com Mon Oct 3 13:46:59 2005 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 3 13:47:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meyerhofferite and fluorescence Message-ID: I recently bought a specimen of Meyerhofferite ps after Inyoite, from the Mt. Blanco mine, in Death Valley. Under sw the Meyerhofferite doesn't fluoresce but the granular matrix does. It appears to fluoresce an orangey color. It also phosphoresces a slightly bluish white, for a period of 10 to 15 seconds. Anyone know anything about this area's minerals? Mindat indicated that Colemanite, and Ulexite were also present at this location. smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Oct 3 14:10:03 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Oct 3 14:08:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Freezeout Mountain, ID In-Reply-To: References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1><434010DC.5000704@verizon.net><000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1><4340302B.7010802@verizon.net><000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear><434042DD.8060607@verizon.net><6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> <0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> <001301c5c7b6$c247fc40$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <43419E2B.5060404@verizon.net> Lanny wrote: > Hi John, > > The forecast appears to be saying little or no precipitation for the > next week, but it changes fast sometimes. Good luck. Well that was a bust. I was told "it's a small spot and hard to describe, and you'll never find it just looking around on your own, someone needs to show it to you, and you don't want to be driving up there now anyway." So much for that. Sounds like a job for GPS MAN! One little black box can do so much. Then nobody needs to show anybody where it is. I looked at the area using TopoUSA, now that I donwloaded a fix from DeLorme and got it working again, and boy, that 3D view is nasty. Some craggy terrain! The trusty Ford Focus wagon with all-season radials won't be going up there any time soon. That's another benefit we didn't have when I was a kid: using TopoUSA and a computer with enough power to render decent 3D graphics, you can get a look at where you're going in a way that a flat topo map can't quite bring across. John and Julie, good luck and be careful if you still plan on going. Otherwise, I think we can plan this one for the summer of 2006. Don From lanny at lrream.com Mon Oct 3 16:07:09 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Oct 3 16:05:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List of mineral names for a spell checker In-Reply-To: <43415BAB.9060909@verizon.net> References: <200510030104.j9314Ag4019230@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <005b01c5c7fa$72db4010$36e3a5d8@rock5> <43414FC1.2030008@att.net> <43415BAB.9060909@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3679e9aff7e2891e3707492695b940c3@lrream.com> As Don and Al point out, you can't copy the format or presentation of published copyrighted information, but you can copy the data. This seems like an easy way to handle things if dealing with a paragraph of written words, a novel, a story or something like that (pull out the facts and figures, don't copy the sentences) . However, when dealing with data such as a list of mineral names it becomes less clear. If you were to copy just the list of mineral names from Fleischer's, the Handbook, or any other copyrighted publication are you in fact violating a copyright? Not likely. Technically, you could say that the Fleischer's format is copyrighted. OK, sounds reasonable, except, if you are just using the mineral names, it is just an alphabetical list of non-copyrightable data (mineral names). Most lists of mineral names are alphabetical, be it in The Handbook, Fleischers, or the Encyclopedia of Minerals; no one has a copyright on common usage. If you were to copy Fleischer's with the mineral name, followed by the formula, followed by the system, followed by distinctive color, followed by best reference, then a case could be made for copyright violation. However, that list is only slightly different than the way the data is presented in the Mineral Reference Manual. My point being, when you get down to a fairly simple list it is not clear at what point there really is a copyrightable format/presentation of the data. Copyright violations can only be answered on a case by case basis. Be careful where you get the data to create a list of mineral names, but if you are simply making a species list, there is little chance you are going to violate anybody's copyright. If you do copy one list, and only have exactly the minerals in that list, then they might be able to prove a violation. Even though it is just an alphabetical list, the fact that it is an exact copy of an incomplete list of mineral names might be sufficient to be a violation of copyright. Make your list, get the mineral names from all the sources you can find, after all, you want it to be complete, but keep in mind, no matter where the data comes from, data can not be copyrighted, and the best defense is probably to show that you are using data only and got it from "everywhere." But then I'm not a lawyer, just a publisher who has read a lot on the subject trying to not violate anyone's copyright and trying to protect my own. Also, remember that copyright cases are civil, not criminal. An individual will have to sue you for a violation. Whereas the holder of the Fleisher's copyright is a lawyer and may have no problem with spending his time making a court case, few others in the mineral world (except maybe a major publisher) would bother. The reason being, going to court is very expensive and there is no reward to copyright lawsuits except for the probable loss of profits caused by the violation. Considering that few publications in the mineral world make much of a profit, it is very unlikely that anyone will be taken to court for a violation, especially a violation that is not blatant and obvious. Why sue someone if it will cost a lot of money and in the end you can only prove that the violation cost you 10 sales of your book? If you feel that your list is ethically/morally fair and not a violation to the best of what you can learn about the copyright laws, then go for it. It's my opinion that a list of minerals violates no copyright laws. Copying Fleischer's format exactly would probably be a violation. Copying an alphabetical list of mineral names, adding other mineral names to it from other sources is not, it's just data. As to the the supposed adding of errors to a map or other information to be able to prove copyright violation. Could be done, but it is obviously a very dangerous thing to do for a publisher. How many publishers want the reputation of publishing incorrect data, especially publishing errors they made on purpose? Not any that I can think of. Personally, I doubt that it is done very often. Regards, Lanny On Oct 3, 2005, at 9:26 AM, DonH wrote: > Al Balmer wrote: >> Rock Currier wrote: >>> If you are thinking of distributing a list of mineral names for free >>> distribution or for even a modest profit I would caution you against >>> mentioning where the names came from. > > Rock, > > Thanks for the advice. Indeed I am painfully familiar with Title 17 > USC and all its painful interpretations. The "bad map" trick is also > well known. As someone else said, you can't copyright factual > information, just the presentation of it. Individual mineral names > are maintained by the IMA and are a matter of public record. If > someone copied the entire entry for each mineral line-by-line out of > Fleischer's Glossary, that is definitely a problem! > > Interesting note about the locality list from Bideaux's book. That is > a more clear-cut instance: A list of localities includes some, > excludes others, and is presented in a certain way. There is > definitely a style to that presentation. > > Thanks again for the info and I'm sure it has given pause for thought > to a few folks. > > best, > Don > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From albalmer at att.net Mon Oct 3 16:39:58 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Oct 3 16:36:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List of mineral names for a spell checker In-Reply-To: <3679e9aff7e2891e3707492695b940c3@lrream.com> References: <200510030104.j9314Ag4019230@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <005b01c5c7fa$72db4010$36e3a5d8@rock5> <43414FC1.2030008@att.net> <43415BAB.9060909@verizon.net> <3679e9aff7e2891e3707492695b940c3@lrream.com> Message-ID: <4341C14E.7080001@att.net> Lanny wrote: > As Don and Al point out, you can't copy the format or presentation of > published copyrighted information, but you can copy the data. This seems > like an easy way to handle things if dealing with a paragraph of written > words, a novel, a story or something like that (pull out the facts and > figures, don't copy the sentences) . However, when dealing with data > such as a list of mineral names it becomes less clear. If you were to > copy just the list of mineral names from Fleischer's, the Handbook, or > any other copyrighted publication are you in fact violating a copyright? > Not likely. Technically, you could say that the Fleischer's format is > copyrighted. OK, sounds reasonable, except, if you are just using the > mineral names, it is just an alphabetical list of non-copyrightable data > (mineral names). Most lists of mineral names are alphabetical, be it in > The Handbook, Fleischers, or the Encyclopedia of Minerals; no one has a > copyright on common usage. Good summary. > > Also, remember that copyright cases are civil, not criminal. An > individual will have to sue you for a violation. This needs clarification. Copyright infringement is usually a civil matter, but if the value of the goods copied amounts to a certain amount ($2500, iirc) it can be classified as a felony. > Whereas the holder of > the Fleisher's copyright is a lawyer and may have no problem with > spending his time making a court case, few others in the mineral world > (except maybe a major publisher) would bother. The reason being, going > to court is very expensive and there is no reward to copyright lawsuits > except for the probable loss of profits caused by the violation. This is not true if the copyright was registered before the infringement, or within 3 months of first publication even if after the infringement. If the work is registered, the infringer is liable for loss of profits plus punitive damages plus court costs. If the work is not registered, only actual losses can be recovered. > It's my > opinion that a list of minerals violates no copyright laws. Copying > Fleischer's format exactly would probably be a violation. Copying an > alphabetical list of mineral names, adding other mineral names to it > from other sources is not, it's just data. I agree. > One more point which might be useful - works published by the US government are public domain and can be freely copied. To be more precise, "Works prepared by an officer or employee of the United States Government as part of that person's official duties receive no copyright protection in the US." > As to the the supposed adding of errors to a map or other information to > be able to prove copyright violation. Could be done, but it is obviously > a very dangerous thing to do for a publisher. How many publishers want > the reputation of publishing incorrect data, especially publishing > errors they made on purpose? Not any that I can think of. Personally, I > doubt that it is done very often. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > On Oct 3, 2005, at 9:26 AM, DonH wrote: > >> Al Balmer wrote: >> >>> Rock Currier wrote: >>> >>>> If you are thinking of distributing a list of mineral names for free >>>> distribution or for even a modest profit I would caution you against >>>> mentioning where the names came from. >> >> >> Rock, >> >> Thanks for the advice. Indeed I am painfully familiar with Title 17 >> USC and all its painful interpretations. The "bad map" trick is also >> well known. As someone else said, you can't copyright factual >> information, just the presentation of it. Individual mineral names >> are maintained by the IMA and are a matter of public record. If >> someone copied the entire entry for each mineral line-by-line out of >> Fleischer's Glossary, that is definitely a problem! >> >> Interesting note about the locality list from Bideaux's book. That is >> a more clear-cut instance: A list of localities includes some, >> excludes others, and is presented in a certain way. There is >> definitely a style to that presentation. >> >> Thanks again for the info and I'm sure it has given pause for thought >> to a few folks. >> >> best, >> Don >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From agesilaus at gmail.com Mon Oct 3 16:58:03 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Oct 3 16:58:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List of mineral names for a spell checker In-Reply-To: <4341C14E.7080001@att.net> References: <200510030104.j9314Ag4019230@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <005b01c5c7fa$72db4010$36e3a5d8@rock5> <43414FC1.2030008@att.net> <43415BAB.9060909@verizon.net> <3679e9aff7e2891e3707492695b940c3@lrream.com> <4341C14E.7080001@att.net> Message-ID: There was an attempt to include databases of information in the DCMA, which would have locked up that entire database in copyright. I don't think it made it's way into the law but I'm not sure. This was being pushed by companies like Westlaw. A lot of DCMA is criminal law. BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Mon Oct 3 17:32:16 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Oct 3 17:17:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt.Blanko Mine, 20 Muel Team Canyon, Death Valley national Monument, California References: <200510032108.j93L8JtL018580@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004001c5c87b$131dcd60$6901a8c0@rock3> The Mt.Blanco mine is a pretty small place, located just up a draw to the south on the road that winds through 20 Muel Team Canyon. In my youth I among others used to do a bit of rooting around and looking for the various borate that come from the district. The Mt. Blanco mine itself is really little more than a short tunnel with a couple of shorter drifts off to the right as you are going in. We collected a wonderfull pocket of the stuff back in the 60s. This is where all the meyerhofferite pseudomorphs after inyoite came from. There is lots of drusy colemanite in the mine/prospect but I don't recall seing any ulexite. There is is a little primairy meyerhofferite there that is like little clusters of white intergrown sticks and thats about all. It is just one of the very many holes, prospects, and mines in the area and they were all exploited for borates. The geology of these are all pretty simple sedimentary and slightly altered sedementary stuff. The colemanite in the Mt. Blanco mine and the nearby Corkscrew mine to the north are all though to be from altered ulexite but there is very little ulexite in any of these mines or the colemanite mines at Ryan, (just east of the Blanco district but still inside the boundries of the monument. Many of the mines and prospects are on deeded land inside the monument. Rock From lanny at lrream.com Mon Oct 3 18:50:26 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Oct 3 18:49:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List of mineral names for a spell checker In-Reply-To: <4341C14E.7080001@att.net> References: <200510030104.j9314Ag4019230@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <005b01c5c7fa$72db4010$36e3a5d8@rock5> <43414FC1.2030008@att.net> <43415BAB.9060909@verizon.net> <3679e9aff7e2891e3707492695b940c3@lrream.com> <4341C14E.7080001@att.net> Message-ID: On Oct 3, 2005, at 4:39 PM, Al Balmer wrote: > Lanny wrote: >> As Don and Al point out, you can't copy the format or presentation of >> published copyrighted information, but you can copy the data. This >> seems like an easy way to handle things if dealing with a paragraph >> of written words, a novel, a story or something like that (pull out >> the facts and figures, don't copy the sentences) . However, when >> dealing with data such as a list of mineral names it becomes less >> clear. If you were to copy just the list of mineral names from >> Fleischer's, the Handbook, or any other copyrighted publication are >> you in fact violating a copyright? Not likely. Technically, you could >> say that the Fleischer's format is copyrighted. OK, sounds >> reasonable, except, if you are just using the mineral names, it is >> just an alphabetical list of non-copyrightable data (mineral names). >> Most lists of mineral names are alphabetical, be it in The Handbook, >> Fleischers, or the Encyclopedia of Minerals; no one has a copyright >> on common usage. > > Good summary. >> > >> Also, remember that copyright cases are civil, not criminal. An >> individual will have to sue you for a violation. > > > This needs clarification. Copyright infringement is usually a civil > matter, but if the value of the goods copied amounts to a certain > amount ($2500, iirc) it can be classified as a felony. Missed that point, do you have an online reference? > >> Whereas the holder of the Fleisher's copyright is a lawyer and may >> have no problem with spending his time making a court case, few >> others in the mineral world (except maybe a major publisher) would >> bother. The reason being, going to court is very expensive and there >> is no reward to copyright lawsuits except for the probable loss of >> profits caused by the violation. > > This is not true if the copyright was registered before the > infringement, or within 3 months of first publication even if after > the infringement. If the work is registered, the infringer is liable > for loss of profits plus punitive damages plus court costs. If the > work is not registered, only actual losses can be recovered. > Missed that point to, do you have an online reference? Thanks, Lanny From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Oct 3 19:06:14 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Oct 3 19:04:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List of mineral names for a spell checker In-Reply-To: References: <200510030104.j9314Ag4019230@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <005b01c5c7fa$72db4010$36e3a5d8@rock5> <43414FC1.2030008@att.net> <43415BAB.9060909@verizon.net> <3679e9aff7e2891e3707492695b940c3@lrream.com> <4341C14E.7080001@att.net> Message-ID: <4341E396.2070007@verizon.net> Lanny wrote: > > Missed that point, do you have an online reference? Indeed there is, funded by your tax dollars-- http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title17/title17.html All U.S. codes are published at this site; and to keep this more topical, at least for U.S. residents, certain federal codes regarding mining, land use, and fossil collecting might also be found here. I'll leave you to poke through the code on your own; I'm doing homework. Don From folmstead at rcn.com Mon Oct 3 19:59:52 2005 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Mon Oct 3 19:59:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A real surprise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4341F028.3020908@rcn.com> HI THIS WAS SENT TO THE ROCKHOUNDS LIST Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Kan wee scend ewe sum miner als?? Kan ewe scend us sum iridescent pumice?? 8-) I think Fred Schaefermeyer is planning a trip to Hawaii - I do not remember the date.... He is planning several cruises - guess he enjoyed the last one!!! >From GeorgiaO :-) __..-..__..--..__ roughrock@gmail.com Grant Johnston wrote: >Kitty, > >You package was a real surprise and the contents were a real treat. >The iridescence in the lava (pumice?) is incomparable. A month or two >back there was a thread about it and I assumed it was like opal, >mother of pearl, labradorite, or one of the other gems we all know. > >But the specimen you sent are very different than I pictured in my >mind. They have an indescribable appearance that the word iridescent >can not convey. I need to go into the archives and reread that thread >now I've seen a sample. > >The macadamias and the CD are also real treats. I already have a >couple of slack key albums and one by Isreal Kamakawiwo'ole. I rarely >play them on the radio because my tongue gets tangled in all those >vowels. (I do play Isreal K. since I can say IZ without getting the >mic all wet.) > >Thank you very much. The package contained eye candy, ear candy, and >real candy. If you ever need more rocks for school kids let me know. > >Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Mon Oct 3 20:13:12 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Mon Oct 3 20:13:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine Message-ID: <00ac01c5c891$8e0d0c00$5f87633f@marilyn> Looking for copies of Rockhound magazine they seem to have lots of old field trip info I have a few copies from the late seventies any Idea how long they published and any one have any extra copies/suggestions? Steve T smtravis@plateautel.net Also I'm going to Alpine Marfa Needle peak and Terlingua this weekend to hunt any suggestions/ Keep on rockin By the way all you northerners were still in the high 80's low 90's and happy for the cool down. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 3 20:47:52 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 3 20:47:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology By Light Plane References: <000d01c5c78b$dd2506a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <4341FB5E.567F@Tomaszewski.net> jaybates wrote: > > Here is a site of spectacular photos with geomorphological subtitles and > explainations: > http://www.geology.wisc.edu/~maher/air/air00.htm Thanks Jay! From kahako at verizon.net Tue Oct 4 00:00:31 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Oct 4 00:00:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A real surprise--WHAT??? In-Reply-To: <4341F028.3020908@rcn.com> References: <4341F028.3020908@rcn.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051003204313.035ba9b0@incoming.verizon.net> Aaron, Kreigh, GeoriaO, everyone---WHAT is going on???!!! Grant's message to me, which appears below GeorgiaO's, was written off-list, and supposed to be private. I don't understand how it got out to anyone else. I've no idea what the other message is about...Fred Schaefermeyer? ...never heard of or from him. Georgia, how did you find out about this? It's weird! Aloha, Kitty At 04:59 PM 10/3/2005, you wrote: >HI >THIS WAS SENT TO THE ROCKHOUNDS LIST >Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >Kan wee scend ewe sum miner als?? > >Kan ewe scend us sum iridescent pumice?? 8-) > >I think Fred Schaefermeyer is planning a trip to Hawaii - I do not >remember the date.... > >He is planning several cruises - guess he enjoyed the last one!!! > >From GeorgiaO :-) >__..-..__..--..__ > > >roughrock@gmail.com >Grant Johnston wrote: > >>Kitty, >> >>You package was a real surprise and the contents were a real treat. >>The iridescence in the lava (pumice?) is incomparable. A month or two >>back there was a thread about it and I assumed it was like opal, >>mother of pearl, labradorite, or one of the other gems we all know. >> >>But the specimen you sent are very different than I pictured in my >>mind. They have an indescribable appearance that the word iridescent >>can not convey. I need to go into the archives and reread that thread >>now I've seen a sample. >> >>The macadamias and the CD are also real treats. I already have a >>couple of slack key albums and one by Isreal Kamakawiwo'ole. I rarely >>play them on the radio because my tongue gets tangled in all those >>vowels. (I do play Isreal K. since I can say IZ without getting the >>mic all wet.) >> >>Thank you very much. The package contained eye candy, ear candy, and >>real candy. If you ever need more rocks for school kids let me know. >> >>Grant Johnston, Chico, CA >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From everbeek at nac.net Tue Oct 4 05:43:30 2005 From: everbeek at nac.net (earl verbeek) Date: Tue Oct 4 05:43:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copyright law (Was: List of mineral names for a spell checker) In-Reply-To: <4341C14E.7080001@att.net> Message-ID: <004f01c5c8e1$3a21fd30$b1e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Al Balmer wrote: > One more point which might be useful - works published by the US government are public domain and can be freely copied. To be more precise, "Works prepared by an officer or employee of the United States Government as part of that person's official duties receive no copyright protection in the US." - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Yes, but to all: This privilege of free copying does not relieve anyone of the responsibility of attributing data or text to its original source. If you include a verbatim paragraph from a government publication in one of your own products, you're obligated to state the source of that paragraph, not pass it off as your own. I don't know if this is a legal obligation or not, but there is WAY more to living a proper life than merely being legal. Thanks for reading - Earl Verbeek From albalmer at att.net Tue Oct 4 08:39:49 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Oct 4 08:36:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List of mineral names for a spell checker In-Reply-To: References: <200510030104.j9314Ag4019230@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <005b01c5c7fa$72db4010$36e3a5d8@rock5> <43414FC1.2030008@att.net> <43415BAB.9060909@verizon.net> <3679e9aff7e2891e3707492695b940c3@lrream.com> <4341C14E.7080001@att.net> Message-ID: <4342A245.40701@att.net> Lanny wrote: > > On Oct 3, 2005, at 4:39 PM, Al Balmer wrote: > >> Lanny wrote: >> >>> As Don and Al point out, you can't copy the format or presentation of >>> published copyrighted information, but you can copy the data. This >>> seems like an easy way to handle things if dealing with a paragraph >>> of written words, a novel, a story or something like that (pull out >>> the facts and figures, don't copy the sentences) . However, when >>> dealing with data such as a list of mineral names it becomes less >>> clear. If you were to copy just the list of mineral names from >>> Fleischer's, the Handbook, or any other copyrighted publication are >>> you in fact violating a copyright? Not likely. Technically, you could >>> say that the Fleischer's format is copyrighted. OK, sounds >>> reasonable, except, if you are just using the mineral names, it is >>> just an alphabetical list of non-copyrightable data (mineral names). >>> Most lists of mineral names are alphabetical, be it in The Handbook, >>> Fleischers, or the Encyclopedia of Minerals; no one has a copyright >>> on common usage. >> >> >> Good summary. >> >>> >> >> >>> Also, remember that copyright cases are civil, not criminal. An >>> individual will have to sue you for a violation. >> >> >> >> This needs clarification. Copyright infringement is usually a civil >> matter, but if the value of the goods copied amounts to a certain >> amount ($2500, iirc) it can be classified as a felony. > > > Missed that point, do you have an online reference? > Sure. I'll take the opportunity to reference Templeton's pages: http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html (See #8) http://www.templetons.com/brad/copyright.html which are succinct explanations for the major points about copyright. >> >>> Whereas the holder of the Fleisher's copyright is a lawyer and may >>> have no problem with spending his time making a court case, few >>> others in the mineral world (except maybe a major publisher) would >>> bother. The reason being, going to court is very expensive and there >>> is no reward to copyright lawsuits except for the probable loss of >>> profits caused by the violation. >> >> >> This is not true if the copyright was registered before the >> infringement, or within 3 months of first publication even if after >> the infringement. If the work is registered, the infringer is liable >> for loss of profits plus punitive damages plus court costs. If the >> work is not registered, only actual losses can be recovered. >> > Missed that point to, do you have an online reference? > The easiest for this is the actual copyright office website: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#cr The applicable paragraph is under the Copyright Registration heading: "If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is available to the copyright owner." The actual law details the amount of statutory damages, which can be up to $100,000, but are usually much less: http://www.ott.caltech.edu/security/Penalties.htm Section 504c. (I take an interest in all this because I'm a developer of custom software, and need the basic knowledge to protect both my clients and myself.) From totis99 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 4 09:16:08 2005 From: totis99 at yahoo.com (teresa otis) Date: Tue Oct 4 09:16:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Boron, California and the borax mine Message-ID: <20051004161608.2574.qmail@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, There's been a lot going on and I finally have time to share pics from a trip we took the end of July. For personal reasons, we had to be on the central coast of California (Morro Bay, San Simeon, etc) the third week of July and decided to leave a few days early and take our time driving there and do a little sightseeing along the older parts of Route 66 along the way. With higher than normal temps in the Mojave going on, we really didn't plan on doing much rockhounding while going across that strip of I-40. (There were heat warnings in the middle of the night that week LOL!) As we're cruisin' along Route 66, I realize we are coming up on Boron, California and said lets stop here. We pulled off the interstate and went into town (which doesn't take much since its really just a little spot in the road)and stopped at the 20 Mule Team Museum. The museum is run by volunteers who are quite friendly and informative...admission is by donation. The grounds of the museum have a number of large items from the old mining days and the old west. Next door to it is an aerospace museum complete with jet sitting out front. When we got ready to leave, they asked if we were going up to the mine. We hadn't really decided at that point as it was already fairly hot and it was only 11:00 in the morning. They convinced us it would be worth the trip to drive out there. (but in all honesty, it really didn't take much convincing lol). Little did I know, we were going to get to go collecting! As we drove up to the mine area, an elderly guard stepped out of the guard shack and took our $2 admission. There was a large dump truck going up the hill in front of us. The guard said ya'll just follow that truck on up the hill and it will take you to the visitor center. You're in luck. That truck has fresh stuff from the mine. As we drove on up and around the hill to the visitor center we came to a HUGE empty parking area for the center and we suddenly understood why he said we were in luck. The dump truck had pulled over to the side and was dumping its load of stuff for visitors to go thru and take home :) As soon as the truck was clear, we pulled over by the pile and jumped out. WOW! not having been exposed to the various minerals from the mine area, it was a treasure trove of beautiful stuff and I was wracking my rock collecting brain for info to decide what to pick up, what to leave, not to 'rape' the pile, how to protect it in the car for the rest of the trip and... its the beginning of the trip so don't fill the car to full! One of cool pieces we brought home weighs about 50 lbs, 12 inches x 15 inches and almost 2 feet long and (to us) is a wonderful representation of the ulexite out of the mine. We then went in the visitors center which is quite large and covers the history of the mine and the mining process itself. Then you go up on top of the visitors center and can view the mining area. Upon leaving the visitors center, another dump truck was leaving another load. We went back out to the dump area and this second load was obviously from a different area as the colors and growths were way different from the first pile. So, of course, we had to pick some from that pile also. As we drove down from the visitors center and out to the main road, we had big smiles on our faces! 120 degrees, the Mojave Desert, and we'd been able to go rock collecting after all! The link below is to the Yahoo Photo Album system for the photos from this piece of our trip. Just click on the Borax Mine photo album. (and if you would like to see a sampling from the central California coastal trip, click on the other one) I hope you enjoy them as much as we did. http://photos.yahoo.com/totis99 Teresa Otis __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From lindalnew at yahoo.com Tue Oct 4 10:46:33 2005 From: lindalnew at yahoo.com (New Linda) Date: Tue Oct 4 10:46:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Boron, California and the borax mine In-Reply-To: <20051004161608.2574.qmail@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20051004174633.99302.qmail@web31507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am so jealous. I drove through the same area in July with my son and he refused to let me stop. I've got to try that road again! Linda New --- teresa otis wrote: > Hi all, > > There's been a lot going on and I finally have time > to > share pics from a trip we took the end of July. > > For personal reasons, we had to be on the central > coast of California (Morro Bay, San Simeon, etc) the > third week of July and decided to leave a few days > early and take our time driving there and do a > little > sightseeing along the older parts of Route 66 along > the way. > > With higher than normal temps in the Mojave going > on, > we really didn't plan on doing much rockhounding > while > going across that strip of I-40. (There were heat > warnings in the middle of the night that week LOL!) > As we're cruisin' along Route 66, I realize we are > coming up on Boron, California and said lets stop > here. > > We pulled off the interstate and went into town > (which > doesn't take much since its really just a little > spot > in the road)and stopped at the 20 Mule Team Museum. > The museum is run by volunteers who are quite > friendly > and informative...admission is by donation. The > grounds of the museum have a number of large items > from the old mining days and the old west. Next > door > to it is an aerospace museum complete with jet > sitting > out front. > > When we got ready to leave, they asked if we were > going up to the mine. We hadn't really decided at > that point as it was already fairly hot and it was > only 11:00 in the morning. They convinced us it > would > be worth the trip to drive out there. (but in all > honesty, it really didn't take much convincing lol). > > Little did I know, we were going to get to go > collecting! As we drove up to the mine area, an > elderly guard stepped out of the guard shack and > took > our $2 admission. There was a large dump truck > going > up the hill in front of us. The guard said ya'll > just > follow that truck on up the hill and it will take > you > to the visitor center. You're in luck. That truck > has fresh stuff from the mine. As we drove on up > and > around the hill to the visitor center we came to a > HUGE empty parking area for the center and we > suddenly > understood why he said we were in luck. The dump > truck had pulled over to the side and was dumping > its > load of stuff for visitors to go thru and take home > :) > > As soon as the truck was clear, we pulled over by > the > pile and jumped out. WOW! not having been exposed > to > the various minerals from the mine area, it was a > treasure trove of beautiful stuff and I was wracking > my rock collecting brain for info to decide what to > pick up, what to leave, not to 'rape' the pile, how > to > protect it in the car for the rest of the trip > and... > its the beginning of the trip so don't fill the car > to > full! > > One of cool pieces we brought home weighs about 50 > lbs, 12 inches x 15 inches and almost 2 feet long > and > (to us) is a wonderful representation of the ulexite > out of the mine. > > We then went in the visitors center which is quite > large and covers the history of the mine and the > mining process itself. Then you go up on top of the > visitors center and can view the mining area. > > Upon leaving the visitors center, another dump truck > was leaving another load. We went back out to the > dump area and this second load was obviously from a > different area as the colors and growths were way > different from the first pile. So, of course, we > had > to pick some from that pile also. > > As we drove down from the visitors center and out to > the main road, we had big smiles on our faces! 120 > degrees, the Mojave Desert, and we'd been able to go > rock collecting after all! > > The link below is to the Yahoo Photo Album system > for > the photos from this piece of our trip. Just click > on > the Borax Mine photo album. (and if you would like > to > see a sampling from the central California coastal > trip, click on the other one) I hope you enjoy them > as much as we did. > > http://photos.yahoo.com/totis99 > > Teresa Otis > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Oct 4 11:08:41 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Oct 4 11:07:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Boron, California and the borax mine In-Reply-To: <20051004161608.2574.qmail@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051004161608.2574.qmail@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4342C529.5060308@tenforward.com> Hi Teresa, Thank you for your report and the link to your photo albums. I looked through your photos after reading your text and enjoyed the adventure very much this morning. All the best, John teresa otis wrote: >Hi all, > >There's been a lot going on and I finally have time to >share pics from a trip we took the end of July. > >For personal reasons, we had to be on the central >coast of California (Morro Bay, San Simeon, etc) the >third week of July and decided to leave a few days >early and take our time driving there and do a little >sightseeing along the older parts of Route 66 along >the way. > >With higher than normal temps in the Mojave going on, >we really didn't plan on doing much rockhounding while >going across that strip of I-40. (There were heat >warnings in the middle of the night that week LOL!) >As we're cruisin' along Route 66, I realize we are >coming up on Boron, California and said lets stop >here. > >We pulled off the interstate and went into town (which >doesn't take much since its really just a little spot >in the road)and stopped at the 20 Mule Team Museum. >The museum is run by volunteers who are quite friendly >and informative...admission is by donation. The >grounds of the museum have a number of large items >from the old mining days and the old west. Next door >to it is an aerospace museum complete with jet sitting >out front. > >When we got ready to leave, they asked if we were >going up to the mine. We hadn't really decided at >that point as it was already fairly hot and it was >only 11:00 in the morning. They convinced us it would >be worth the trip to drive out there. (but in all >honesty, it really didn't take much convincing lol). > >Little did I know, we were going to get to go >collecting! As we drove up to the mine area, an >elderly guard stepped out of the guard shack and took >our $2 admission. There was a large dump truck going >up the hill in front of us. The guard said ya'll just >follow that truck on up the hill and it will take you >to the visitor center. You're in luck. That truck >has fresh stuff from the mine. As we drove on up and >around the hill to the visitor center we came to a >HUGE empty parking area for the center and we suddenly >understood why he said we were in luck. The dump >truck had pulled over to the side and was dumping its >load of stuff for visitors to go thru and take home :) > >As soon as the truck was clear, we pulled over by the >pile and jumped out. WOW! not having been exposed to >the various minerals from the mine area, it was a >treasure trove of beautiful stuff and I was wracking >my rock collecting brain for info to decide what to >pick up, what to leave, not to 'rape' the pile, how to >protect it in the car for the rest of the trip and... >its the beginning of the trip so don't fill the car to >full! > >One of cool pieces we brought home weighs about 50 >lbs, 12 inches x 15 inches and almost 2 feet long and >(to us) is a wonderful representation of the ulexite >out of the mine. > >We then went in the visitors center which is quite >large and covers the history of the mine and the >mining process itself. Then you go up on top of the >visitors center and can view the mining area. > >Upon leaving the visitors center, another dump truck >was leaving another load. We went back out to the >dump area and this second load was obviously from a >different area as the colors and growths were way >different from the first pile. So, of course, we had >to pick some from that pile also. > >As we drove down from the visitors center and out to >the main road, we had big smiles on our faces! 120 >degrees, the Mojave Desert, and we'd been able to go >rock collecting after all! > >The link below is to the Yahoo Photo Album system for >the photos from this piece of our trip. Just click on >the Borax Mine photo album. (and if you would like to >see a sampling from the central California coastal >trip, click on the other one) I hope you enjoy them >as much as we did. > >http://photos.yahoo.com/totis99 > >Teresa Otis > > > > > > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From jabac at hal-pc.org Tue Oct 4 13:19:44 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Tue Oct 4 13:12:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine In-Reply-To: <00ac01c5c891$8e0d0c00$5f87633f@marilyn> References: <00ac01c5c891$8e0d0c00$5f87633f@marilyn> Message-ID: <1128457184.5134.68.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 21:13 -0600, Steve & Marilyn wrote: > Also I'm going to Alpine Marfa Needle peak and Terlingua this weekend to hunt any suggestions/ Keep on rockin By the way all you northerners were still in the high 80's low 90's and happy for the cool down. I was out there in July for a few weeks. It was hot! I covered the area from Balmorhea down to the river below Black Gap WMA. Balmorhea is interesting but not productive. One can still find some of the blue agate but only with a lot of searching. The best area is to the E and SE of the lake. One has better luck around Toyah as there is still lots of float agate around; I even found what I think is a meteorite from the Odessa fall by the San Martin Draw road. But be prepared to do some sleuthing for good areas. Take the loop road 118/166 around the Davis mountains. It is nice scenery and interesting geologically. Don't forget to stop at the McDonald Observatory. During the day there is a lecture and trip to the solar observatory for viewing, as well as a tour of the big 'scope. The S part of Rte 166 goes through some interesting ash flows. Below Marfa, take Rte 169 and check the roadside at interesting areas. There is a lot of agate here but it is all clear. (One of the guys at HGMS said it is very good for doublets and triplets.) Still, it is so nice to look across a fence and see a field !littered! with large chunks of agate. No need to cross fences; there is lots of material along the road. Follow this road to the end for the ghost town of Plata and some very good birding along the creek with giant cottonwoods, etc. Be prepared for border patrol checkpoints and some curiosity about your activities. The road is paved and excellent to Plata. Don't forget the Woodward Ranch. Trey has expanded the RV area and camping is good. The best search areas are on the E side with lots of carnelian and moss as well as other varieties. No plume though; that is on the W side. I found one good plume bisquit and buckets of red and yellow moss. The E side is 4WD. Trey can fill you in on the current state of things further South as well. Just below Marathon is The Post, once an army post but now a little lake and picnic area. The birding is fantastic, and mostly only the locals even know it is there. The "chrysoprase" location mentioned as being below Marathon at a roadside park is not. It is lots of bluish colored flint and there is not too much of interest. But the roadside park itself is a meeting area for illegal immigrants and attracts a lot of attention from the border patrol. That being said the geology along this road is fantastic with a mix of volcanics and major uplifts in several different directions. It has been fairly well deciphered but is worthy of more than one PhD dissertation. Stillwell's was disappointing in that the ranch has been sold and only a small portion next to FM 2627 is available for hunting rocks. The RV facilities are open and minimal. But there is the museum which is worth a trip for anyone interested in the first-person history of the area. But I did find some good material and artifacts are common as this was a trade route for the Indians of the area. One of my best finds was in a rock-pile beside the road just below Stillwell's, a 6 lb Rio Grande geode with blue and white bands and Quartz crystal center. Follow FM 2627 through Black Gap WMF to the river at Heath Canyon. This time of year there may be hunters in the area after big game. At the river one can go down to the bank and the gravel bars through the river-rafting launch right-of-way. This was once a fluorspar mining area so there is also some of that around. Park near the bridge (which is now closed) as the parking area up to the right is a "fee area", the idea of some one of the locals. Heath Canyon is where the river closes down to a few feet and the high canyon walls are very impressive. It is the start of the Rio Grande Wild and Scenic Rivers trips, which usually end down-river in Langtry. There was a fair amount of water in the river in July, but not enough to sustain any trips according to the local guides. As in all of this area, expect some interest from the border patrol. There are a few families left in the Mexican town of Santa Rita, but they are in pretty dire straits since the mine and the bridge closed. There are on-going appeals for food and clothing donations to help them. I didn't cover the W side of Big Bend this time except for Woodward's. My primary modus operendi was to follow the guide books and see just how good they were (not very) and go to Balmorhea and Woodward's (nice). As for the rest, that's next year... Why the mention of the birding places? Well, the other half of this family is way into birds, and good rock places are not good bird places, and usually vice versa. Ah, well. Life is full of little compromises. john From lanny at lrream.com Tue Oct 4 13:40:11 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Oct 4 13:38:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] List of mineral names for a spell checker In-Reply-To: <4342A245.40701@att.net> References: <200510030104.j9314Ag4019230@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <005b01c5c7fa$72db4010$36e3a5d8@rock5> <43414FC1.2030008@att.net> <43415BAB.9060909@verizon.net> <3679e9aff7e2891e3707492695b940c3@lrream.com> <4341C14E.7080001@att.net> <4342A245.40701@att.net> Message-ID: <5d47f1f3248026a475eb131eea6172db@lrream.com> Thanks Al, Either that paragraph on Templeton's about copyright infringements now being a felony in some cases is really new on the page, or I forgot it. It does say it is new, but no mention of how new. I haven't looked at Templeton's for a couple of years probably. If walking the line between acceptable data use and violating a copyright, watch out for the prosecutor with time on his hands! Regards, Lanny On Oct 4, 2005, at 8:39 AM, Al Balmer wrote: > Lanny wrote: >> On Oct 3, 2005, at 4:39 PM, Al Balmer wrote: >>> Lanny wrote: >>> >>>> As Don and Al point out, you can't copy the format or presentation >>>> of published copyrighted information, but you can copy the data. >>>> This seems like an easy way to handle things if dealing with a >>>> paragraph of written words, a novel, a story or something like that >>>> (pull out the facts and figures, don't copy the sentences) . >>>> However, when dealing with data such as a list of mineral names it >>>> becomes less clear. If you were to copy just the list of mineral >>>> names from Fleischer's, the Handbook, or any other copyrighted >>>> publication are you in fact violating a copyright? Not likely. >>>> Technically, you could say that the Fleischer's format is >>>> copyrighted. OK, sounds reasonable, except, if you are just using >>>> the mineral names, it is just an alphabetical list of >>>> non-copyrightable data (mineral names). Most lists of mineral names >>>> are alphabetical, be it in The Handbook, Fleischers, or the >>>> Encyclopedia of Minerals; no one has a copyright on common usage. >>> >>> >>> Good summary. >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> Also, remember that copyright cases are civil, not criminal. An >>>> individual will have to sue you for a violation. >>> >>> >>> >>> This needs clarification. Copyright infringement is usually a civil >>> matter, but if the value of the goods copied amounts to a certain >>> amount ($2500, iirc) it can be classified as a felony. >> Missed that point, do you have an online reference? > > Sure. I'll take the opportunity to reference Templeton's pages: > http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html (See #8) > http://www.templetons.com/brad/copyright.html > > which are succinct explanations for the major points about copyright. > >>> >>>> Whereas the holder of the Fleisher's copyright is a lawyer and may >>>> have no problem with spending his time making a court case, few >>>> others in the mineral world (except maybe a major publisher) would >>>> bother. The reason being, going to court is very expensive and >>>> there is no reward to copyright lawsuits except for the probable >>>> loss of profits caused by the violation. >>> >>> >>> This is not true if the copyright was registered before the >>> infringement, or within 3 months of first publication even if after >>> the infringement. If the work is registered, the infringer is liable >>> for loss of profits plus punitive damages plus court costs. If the >>> work is not registered, only actual losses can be recovered. >>> >> Missed that point to, do you have an online reference? > The easiest for this is the actual copyright office website: > http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html#cr > > The applicable paragraph is under the Copyright Registration heading: > > "If registration is made within 3 months after publication of the work > or prior to an infringement of the work, statutory damages and > attorney's fees will be available to the copyright owner in court > actions. Otherwise, only an award of actual damages and profits is > available to the copyright owner." > > The actual law details the amount of statutory damages, which can be > up to $100,000, but are usually much less: > > http://www.ott.caltech.edu/security/Penalties.htm Section 504c. > > (I take an interest in all this because I'm a developer of custom > software, and need the basic knowledge to protect both my clients and > myself.) > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From roughrock at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 14:02:29 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Tue Oct 4 14:02:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mine for sale Message-ID: Listed on Ebay, item number 6542637475. The 'Buy It Now' price is$435,000 but two other places it's $485 K Firm. Anybody have any sparechange? LOST VALLEY GEM MINE FOR SALE 17 ACRES - SOUTHERN CAL US $435,000.00 Item location: Riverside, CA1 OF-A-KIND GEMS CRYSTALS MINERALS BUSINESS OPPORTUNITYLOST VALLEY GEM TOURMALINE MINE FOR SALE 17 ACRES - SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA $485K FIRMOne Time Opportunity - Lost Valley (Cryo-genie) Gem Mine, 17 AcresLode Claim Near Warner Springs, Southern California. Facet QualityBlue, Pink, Red, and Green Tourmaline. Blue Aquamarine & PinkMorganite Beryl. Clear, Citrine & Smoky Quartz and Other Rare AndValuable Mineral Specimens Produced at ThisWorld Famous, World Class Locality. This property is currently acommercial mine. Located within the Cleveland National Forest at analtitude just over 3000 feet, snow is rare and licenced hunting isallowed for Deer, Rabbit andGame Birds which abound in the area. Heralded as the NEW CALIFORNIATOURMALINE DISCOVERY, this is a turn-key operation. The Lost ValleyTourmaline Mineproduces top-quality transparent colored gemstones for facet-cutting,cabochons, beads, specimens and carving-grade for objects d' Art. Inaddition to the gems, the mine produces large museum grade gem andmineral specimens which sell for tens of thousands of dollars eachand are found in room size cavities in the rock. Each acre coversapproximately the same size area as a footballfield and this claim coveys legal title to all minerals covering 17acres with extra-lateral rights. There has been a remendous amount ofpublic interest in this property which was recently documented by TheLos Angeles NaturalHistory Museum, Mineralogical Record, Gems & Gemology (theGemological Institute of America) and has appeared in numerous tradepublications including the cover of Rock & Minerals Magazine. This isan outstanding producer with aproven track-record and fine tourmaline gems can sell for hundreds ofdollars a carat! This mine has been called "the tourmaline find ofthe century" and is expected to produce for decades to come. Nothingis heard of these world-classmines for they are kept well guarded secrets. The fact is, SouthernCalifornia produces millions of carats in fine gem stones, mostlypinks, blues and reds, the most highly desired colors for finejewelry. Also cats-eye, bi &tri-color, and watermelon tourmalines are produced. The deep-blue gem aquamarine crystal shown on matrix is five inches across, weighsthousands of carats, and recently sold for $25,000.00. A number ofother individual specimens have each sold in the $100,000.00 pricerange. Q: Why don't you see or hear of gems from Southern Californiamore? A: Demand far out-weighs supply and whatis produced is quietly bought-up and jealously hoarded by the knowledgeable few. This has always occurred from the time the mineswere first discovered, and the practice continues to the present day.The California Division of Mines reports in their 1966 'Minerals ofCalifornia??? Bulletin 189: ' The first discovery of coloredgem-tourmaline in the state goes back as far as 1872 when Mr. HenryHamilton, in June of that year, obtained and recognized thismineral in Riverside County, on the Southeast Slope of Thomas Mountain. It may seem remarkable that this locality for gem tourmalineshould have been un-recorded in earlier lists of California mineralssuch as the state reports ofthe Mining Bureau for 1882 and 1884, but the parties who knew of theoccurence did not make it public for some years, and the earlier specimens were takenout quietly and their location not divulged???. California Divisionof Mines and Geology Bulletin 189, 1966, Minerals of California,Pegmatite Gem Area of Southern California??? (pg 46-49). This Mine isa valid Federal mine claim and according to Federal Law, "Miningclaims and sites are considered real property. The interests in themand associated rights may be bought, sold, transferred, leased,rented, willed, or inherited." Currently there areonly 19 states remaining in which you can legally file a Federal mineclaim, don't miss your opportunity. This mine has easy access, and isa turn-key operation. I always work with the buyer and seller, theBLM and USFS to mediate thetransfer of legal interest in the claim. Perfect for rock & mineralor prospecting clubs and associations, University GeologyDepartments, Gem or Jewelry Companies, etc. Read more about this minein the May/June 2003 Rocks &Minerals Magazine. THE TERMS: US $485,000.00 Firm. On-site Examination of theProperty available by appointment only. From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 4 14:51:54 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Tue Oct 4 14:52:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine References: <00ac01c5c891$8e0d0c00$5f87633f@marilyn> <1128457184.5134.68.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <000701c5c92d$d663c060$78f1edc1@mpc1> > Why the mention of the birding places? Well, the other half of this > family is way into birds, and good rock places are not good bird places, > and usually vice versa. Ah, well. Life is full of little compromises. The Caldbeck Fells in Cumberland used to be great for both. Now you can't collect rocks without a licence, but you can watch the birds: kestrel, buzzard, peregrine, hobby, merlin, phalarope, ouzel, dipper, etc. In the days I used to camp there (you can't do that any more either) I used to sit on a rock by a waterfall in the morning and share my bread with the wrens while some small predatory thing kept an eye on us both. It was a weasel or a stoat. I forget how to distinguish between them though I recall you can weasely tell cos they're stoataly different. Mick From kahako at verizon.net Tue Oct 4 16:27:17 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Oct 4 16:27:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: rockhounds & birders (was Rockhound magazine) In-Reply-To: <1128457184.5134.68.camel@localhost> References: <00ac01c5c891$8e0d0c00$5f87633f@marilyn> <1128457184.5134.68.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051004130505.031bec88@incoming.verizon.net> My mother loved birds and rocks (especially fluorescent ones), so I grew up to be a rockhound who also likes birds, and my brother is a birder who also likes rocks. Last summer I was prowling around the lava fiends looking at iridescent lava and reticulite. I'd been hearing calls of little birds in the bushes nearby, but then I heard the classic "honk" of geese. I looked up and here came a flock of about a dozen Nene (Hawaiian Goose, the state bird). They were flying in a loose "V" formation only about 3 meters above the ground. They followed the line of a lava fissure and the piles of stuff that had built up from fountaining over 30 years ago, and went right over my head. They were so close I could hear the whoosh of their wings. I felt that if I had stuck my arm up in the air I could have touched them! If you'd like to see the area I was in, and the Nene, go to this site: http://www.instanthawaii.com/ Then scroll all the way to the bottom and click on "Try the Site Index" Then look under "Hikes and Trails" for: Iridescent Fissure and Ice Cream Cone Walk The reason I post this circuitous route to the site is because the actual URL is so long it doesn't all fit in the address window, and would require pasting from the wrap. The whole site is full of neat stuff about Hawaii, much of it interesting to rockhounds---and birders, and people who like flowers. Aloha, Kitty At 10:19 AM 10/4/2005, jabac wrote: >Why the mention of the birding places? Well, the other half of this >family is way into birds, and good rock places are not good bird places, >and usually vice versa. Ah, well. Life is full of little compromises. >john --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Oct 4 17:00:08 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Oct 4 16:57:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A real surprise--WHAT??? References: <4341F028.3020908@rcn.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20051003204313.035ba9b0@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <434316D7.70BA@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty, It appears that both messages were sent to the List. Whether it was deliberate or by accident only the senders could say. It would not be the first time a private message went to the list (I've done it myself). Kreigh Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Aaron, Kreigh, GeoriaO, everyone---WHAT is going on???!!! > > Grant's message to me, which appears below GeorgiaO's, was written > off-list, and supposed to be private. I don't understand how it got out to > anyone else. > > I've no idea what the other message is about...Fred Schaefermeyer? ...never > heard of or from him. > > Georgia, how did you find out about this? It's weird! > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 04:59 PM 10/3/2005, you wrote: > >HI > >THIS WAS SENT TO THE ROCKHOUNDS LIST > >Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > >rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > >Kan wee scend ewe sum miner als?? > > > >Kan ewe scend us sum iridescent pumice?? 8-) > > > >I think Fred Schaefermeyer is planning a trip to Hawaii - I do not > >remember the date.... > > > >He is planning several cruises - guess he enjoyed the last one!!! > > > >From GeorgiaO :-) > >__..-..__..--..__ > > > > > >roughrock@gmail.com > >Grant Johnston wrote: > > > >>Kitty, > >> > >>You package was a real surprise and the contents were a real treat. > >>The iridescence in the lava (pumice?) is incomparable. A month or two > >>back there was a thread about it and I assumed it was like opal, > >>mother of pearl, labradorite, or one of the other gems we all know. > >> > >>But the specimen you sent are very different than I pictured in my > >>mind. They have an indescribable appearance that the word iridescent > >>can not convey. I need to go into the archives and reread that thread > >>now I've seen a sample. > >> > >>The macadamias and the CD are also real treats. I already have a > >>couple of slack key albums and one by Isreal Kamakawiwo'ole. I rarely > >>play them on the radio because my tongue gets tangled in all those > >>vowels. (I do play Isreal K. since I can say IZ without getting the > >>mic all wet.) > >> > >>Thank you very much. The package contained eye candy, ear candy, and > >>real candy. If you ever need more rocks for school kids let me know. > >> > >>Grant Johnston, Chico, CA From buff1 at ptd.net Tue Oct 4 17:31:36 2005 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Tue Oct 4 17:31:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals In-Reply-To: <0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> <000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> <4340302B.7010802@verizon.net> <000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> <0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> Message-ID: <43431EE8.1010107@ptd.net> Ok folks, something must have struck a bell or something, because this whole idea, now, has "reverberated" from one side of the states to the other. Just yesterday, I was collecting with a friend, for garnet in the eastern portion of the U.S. and commented that it appeared there was sillimanite associcated with the garnet. To this he replied, that well yes, of course, we were in a schistose type environment and that kyanite is found not too far from where we were, to which I commented that I had NEVER seen garnet in direct association with kyanite. Staurolite yes; and quite often; but not kyanite. So this whole thing of Freezeout..... is it possible to have a piece under 50 yards across that has both well formed garnet and kyanite in the same piece?? Does anyone have any specualtions as to what may have been the variable for the near porximity of differant grades of metamorphism? This whole thing sounds like some fairly "heady" stuff......... > > > This is very interesting, I've never paid much attention to the > reports of all three occurring in one spot in that region. The > metamorphism grade is so screwed up in the region I wonder if there > aren't several places where all three occur. Makes me wish I had ready > access to a geology library! > > , look in the road for almandine crystals. They are common all through > there, most are reddish granular crystals, but good euhedral crystals > are not exactly scarce. Freezeout has an area where fairly good > almandine crystals to about 6 inches or more across have been found; > there is nice blue kyanite just north of that spot. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > From agesilaus at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 18:00:22 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Oct 4 18:00:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: rockhounds & birders (was Rockhound magazine) In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051004130505.031bec88@incoming.verizon.net> References: <00ac01c5c891$8e0d0c00$5f87633f@marilyn> <1128457184.5134.68.camel@localhost> <6.2.1.2.0.20051004130505.031bec88@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: OK for those looong URLs go to: http://shrinkster.com paste in the URL and get back a nice short one like this: http://shrinkster.com/8hx which is the same as the one below. 8hx is a heck of lot easier to deal with than that monster below. BK for: > < > http://www.instanthawaii.com/cgi-bin/hawaii?!00but0gaTifQ1e0qebaaK2dcr2AOuMe9m40n0AvLF4bOf7ganzrmnrCa05vol22btoErnraamt0Mr5vTOjdbtlEanCeXIeCTr4jBOb2vf5E6anmOnrCUrboT80 > >Iridescent > Fissure and Ice Cream Cone Walk > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Tue Oct 4 18:07:15 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Tue Oct 4 18:07:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net><000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> <000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> <4340302B.7010802@verizon.net> <000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com><0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> <43431EE8.1010107@ptd.net> Message-ID: <000c01c5c949$20e1ed40$6401a8c0@maingear> Dennis.... What you said about garnet and kyanite jogged my memory and I had to go looking for a particular piece. Just as I thought I have garnets in schist with kyanite on the outside of it. I am not sure what you mean by "well-formed" though. This garnet is tiny but it is definitely crystalline. It came from Prospect Park, Pa. I would think that would qualify as "in direct association". I can provide photos if anyone wants to see it. Paul in Marietta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Buffenmyer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals > Ok folks, > something must have struck a bell or something, because this whole > idea, now, has "reverberated" from one side of the states to the other. > Just yesterday, I was collecting with a friend, for garnet in the > eastern portion of the U.S. and commented that it appeared there was > sillimanite associcated with the garnet. To this he replied, that well > yes, of course, we were in a schistose type environment and that kyanite > is found not too far from where we were, to which I commented that I had > NEVER seen garnet in direct association with kyanite. Staurolite yes; > and quite often; but not kyanite. So this whole thing of > Freezeout..... is it possible to have a piece under 50 yards across that > has both well formed garnet and kyanite in the same piece?? Does anyone > have any specualtions as to what may have been the variable for the near > porximity of differant grades of metamorphism? > This whole thing sounds like some fairly "heady" stuff......... > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Oct 4 18:54:54 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Oct 4 18:51:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium References: <200510031614.j93GDQWs021561@outmx027.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <434331AD.7BD6@Tomaszewski.net> Rik, I have not seen your upsidedown rainbow picture, but I am willing to bet it looks like the one at http://www.sundog.clara.co.uk/halo/cza.htm which is really a circumzenithal arc. High ice crystals in the sky can make a whole bunch of odd arcs and circles in the sky which this website nicely describes. On cold winter days we see some of these phenomena in Michigan so I am familiar with many of them. Kreigh Rik Dillen wrote: > > Voil? ! Any explanation for this strange phenomenon ? > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Steve & Marilyn > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 12:11 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium > > If it would not be to much trouble please send me a copy (email) of your > rainbow pic. All the best Steve Travis smtravis@plateautel.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rik Dillen" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 1:04 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium > > > Huh, weird phenomenon here in Belgium ? That doesn't surprise me. > > Everything is weird here. > > I photographed I very strange rainbow as well, in Tanah Rata, Cameron > > Highlands, Malaysia this year : the rainbow was > > upside down, on a steel blue sky... very strange phenomenon. > > I send a few images of this natural event off-line to Bill & Kitty ; if > > someone else wants them, please let me know. I > > cannot post them on my website, as at present I have no software installed > > for web-page design, and writing html is too > > tedious for me ! > > > > Regards, > > > > Rik DILLEN > > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > > Belgium > > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>>> Belgian minerals > >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>>> Exchange list > > > > MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 > > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > > Heacox > > Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 6:59 AM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium > > > > Hi all who are interested in natural phenomena, > > > > The following website is neat as a general rule, but today it has a piece > > on a solar eclipse to be seen in Europe, Africa and the Middle East, > > followed by one on a mystery rainbow photographed in Belgium. It appeared > > to occur after sunset, without rain. > > > > http://spaceweather.com/ > > > > Aloha, Kitty From tam2819 at cox.net Tue Oct 4 19:22:34 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Tue Oct 4 19:22:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: rockhounds & birders (was Rockhound magazine) In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051004130505.031bec88@incoming.verizon.net> References: <00ac01c5c891$8e0d0c00$5f87633f@marilyn> <1128457184.5134.68.camel@localhost> <6.2.1.2.0.20051004130505.031bec88@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <7667a5e2057f60333fe02d5a67c36d7c@cox.net> Kitty, What a fascinating site. Thank you so much for posting it. I enjoyed the narrative, photos and personal information you included. So sad to lose Coco, what pleasure you received over the years. A very fitting memorial. Hugs Terrie From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Mon Oct 3 21:40:24 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Tue Oct 4 19:34:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] INFORMATION REQUIRED Message-ID: <000d01c5c89d$f4d7a100$574027c4@privatehome> Hi List, A good friend of mine, Roger Dixon, will be travelling to Cuba, Panama, Costa Rica, Belize, Guatemala and Nicaragua during June 2006. I have volunteered to try and obtain information on mineral/collecting sites in these places. Any suggestions? Regards, Horst --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Oct 4 19:38:18 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Oct 4 19:38:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: rockhounds & birders (was Rockhound magazine) In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051004130505.031bec88@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: Aloha Kitty, There you go again...I was about to sign off and try to catch 40 winks and now I've spent several of those winks at another great site...sure hope Jeanette and I can visit there again soon...one of our gingers we brought home from there a few years ago just bloomed again, bright yellow and fragrant... Mahalo! Glenn From: Kitty & Bill Heacox kahako@verizon.net My mother loved birds and rocks (especially fluorescent ones), so I grew up to be a rockhound who also likes birds, and my brother is a birder who also likes rocks. Last summer I was prowling around the lava fiends looking at iridescent lava and reticulite. I'd been hearing calls of little birds in the bushes nearby, but then I heard the classic "honk" of geese. I looked up and here came a flock of about a dozen Nene (Hawaiian Goose, the state bird). They were flying in a loose "V" formation only about 3 meters above the ground. They followed the line of a lava fissure and the piles of stuff that had built up from fountaining over 30 years ago, and went right over my head. They were so close I could hear the whoosh of their wings. I felt that if I had stuck my arm up in the air I could have touched them! If you'd like to see the area I was in, and the Nene, go to this site: http://www.instanthawaii.com/ Then scroll all the way to the bottom and click on "Try the Site Index" Then look under "Hikes and Trails" for: Iridescent">http://www.instanthawaii.com/cgi-bin/hawaii?!00but0gaTifQ1e0qebaaK2dcr2AOuMe9m40n0AvLF4bOf7ganzrmnrCa05vol22btoErnraamt0Mr5vTOjdbtlEanCeXIeCTr4jBOb2vf5E6anmOnrCUrboT80>Iridescent Fissure and Ice Cream Cone Walk  The reason I post this circuitous route to the site is because the actual URL is so long it doesn't all fit in the address window, and would require pasting from the wrap. The whole site is full of neat stuff about Hawaii, much of it interesting to rockhounds---and birders, and people who like flowers. Aloha, Kitty ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation - the next best thing to being there! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Oct 4 19:45:38 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Oct 4 19:43:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] INFORMATION REQUIRED In-Reply-To: <000d01c5c89d$f4d7a100$574027c4@privatehome> References: <000d01c5c89d$f4d7a100$574027c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <43433E52.1060909@verizon.net> Horst Windisch wrote: > Hi List, > > A good friend of mine, Roger Dixon, will be travelling to Cuba, Panama, Costa Rica, Belize, Guatemala and Nicaragua during June 2006. I have volunteered to try and obtain information on mineral/collecting sites in these places. Any suggestions? Now there is an esoteric itinerary! One of our agricultural science researchers does work in Costa Rica, so I'll see if she has any suggestions... she may have gone back there already, but it gives me a reason to visit the ag sci building where all the cool women are... Horst, you are one of the international sand collectors, are you not? Apparently there are some really interesting sands & clays in Costa Rica; again, I need to talk to this one researcher in particular about that. Anyway, have your friend keep an eye on the ground... after all, soils are just rocks that have had a bad life. Did you know the solids in soils are mostly rock components? I always thought that "dirt" (don't dare call it dirt around here) was mostly organic stuff, like dead plants and bugs, but it's not. Don From smtravis at plateautel.net Tue Oct 4 19:57:35 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Tue Oct 4 19:57:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine References: <00ac01c5c891$8e0d0c00$5f87633f@marilyn> <1128457184.5134.68.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <006301c5c958$8a8e1700$5f87633f@marilyn> John thanks for the info you should try the walker ranch borders the woodard on the south, better hunting in my opinion and only $35 per day to pick up all you want and it is good maybe great, call Teri Smith at the antelope lodge in Alpine to set up a day trip we are going there and I picked up over 100 lb in about 4 hrs with lots of plume and moss just a recommendation much cheaper tha $2 lb from trey but no opal that I know of we are going to Needle peak with Trey so I'm not bad mouthing him. Any way thanks for the heads up we know balmoreau is used up but thanks again for the info Ill try some of your locations maybe email you about the trip later. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 2:19 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine > On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 21:13 -0600, Steve & Marilyn wrote: >> Also I'm going to Alpine Marfa Needle peak and Terlingua this weekend >> to hunt any suggestions/ Keep on rockin By the way all you northerners >> were still in the high 80's low 90's and happy for the cool down. > > > I was out there in July for a few weeks. It was hot! I covered the area > from Balmorhea down to the river below Black Gap WMA. > > Balmorhea is interesting but not productive. One can still find some of > the blue agate but only with a lot of searching. The best area is to the > E and SE of the lake. One has better luck around Toyah as there is still > lots of float agate around; I even found what I think is a meteorite > from the Odessa fall by the San Martin Draw road. But be prepared to do > some sleuthing for good areas. > > Take the loop road 118/166 around the Davis mountains. It is nice > scenery and interesting geologically. Don't forget to stop at the > McDonald Observatory. During the day there is a lecture and trip to the > solar observatory for viewing, as well as a tour of the big 'scope. > The S part of Rte 166 goes through some interesting ash flows. > > Below Marfa, take Rte 169 and check the roadside at interesting areas. > There is a lot of agate here but it is all clear. (One of the guys at > HGMS said it is very good for doublets and triplets.) Still, it is so > nice to look across a fence and see a field !littered! with large chunks > of agate. No need to cross fences; there is lots of material along the > road. Follow this road to the end for the ghost town of Plata and some > very good birding along the creek with giant cottonwoods, etc. Be > prepared for border patrol checkpoints and some curiosity about your > activities. The road is paved and excellent to Plata. > > Don't forget the Woodward Ranch. Trey has expanded the RV area and > camping is good. The best search areas are on the E side with lots of > carnelian and moss as well as other varieties. No plume though; that is > on the W side. I found one good plume bisquit and buckets of red and > yellow moss. The E side is 4WD. Trey can fill you in on the current > state of things further South as well. > > Just below Marathon is The Post, once an army post but now a little lake > and picnic area. The birding is fantastic, and mostly only the locals > even know it is there. > > The "chrysoprase" location mentioned as being below Marathon at a > roadside park is not. It is lots of bluish colored flint and there is > not too much of interest. But the roadside park itself is a meeting area > for illegal immigrants and attracts a lot of attention from the border > patrol. That being said the geology along this road is fantastic with a > mix of volcanics and major uplifts in several different directions. It > has been fairly well deciphered but is worthy of more than one PhD > dissertation. > > Stillwell's was disappointing in that the ranch has been sold and only a > small portion next to FM 2627 is available for hunting rocks. The RV > facilities are open and minimal. But there is the museum which is worth > a trip for anyone interested in the first-person history of the area. > But I did find some good material and artifacts are common as this was a > trade route for the Indians of the area. One of my best finds was in a > rock-pile beside the road just below Stillwell's, a 6 lb Rio Grande > geode with blue and white bands and Quartz crystal center. > > Follow FM 2627 through Black Gap WMF to the river at Heath Canyon. This > time of year there may be hunters in the area after big game. At the > river one can go down to the bank and the gravel bars through the > river-rafting launch right-of-way. This was once a fluorspar mining area > so there is also some of that around. Park near the bridge (which is > now closed) as the parking area up to the right is a "fee area", the > idea of some one of the locals. Heath Canyon is where the river closes > down to a few feet and the high canyon walls are very impressive. It is > the start of the Rio Grande Wild and Scenic Rivers trips, which usually > end down-river in Langtry. There was a fair amount of water in the river > in July, but not enough to sustain any trips according to the local > guides. > > As in all of this area, expect some interest from the border patrol. > There are a few families left in the Mexican town of Santa Rita, but > they are in pretty dire straits since the mine and the bridge closed. > There are on-going appeals for food and clothing donations to help them. > > I didn't cover the W side of Big Bend this time except for Woodward's. > My primary modus operendi was to follow the guide books and see just how > good they were (not very) and go to Balmorhea and Woodward's (nice). > > As for the rest, that's next year... > > Why the mention of the birding places? Well, the other half of this > family is way into birds, and good rock places are not good bird places, > and usually vice versa. Ah, well. Life is full of little compromises. > > > john > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kahako at verizon.net Tue Oct 4 21:02:26 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Oct 4 21:02:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A real surprise---what? In-Reply-To: <434316D7.70BA@Tomaszewski.net> References: <4341F028.3020908@rcn.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20051003204313.035ba9b0@incoming.verizon.net> <434316D7.70BA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051004173531.031eccc8@incoming.verizon.net> OK, it appears Grant sent his message to the List by mistake. The reason I thought it did not go to the List (aside from its private content) was that it did not have the addresses (List-Post, List-Subscribe, etc) at the top, nor the signature lines at the bottom. I'm used to seeing all those blue underlined addresses as an instant visual cue of a List post. I've never seen this happen before. I'm still confused by Georgia's post, but I apologize to the List if I compounded the confusion. Aloha, Kitty At 02:00 PM 10/4/2005, you wrote: >Kitty, > >It appears that both messages were sent to the List. Whether it was >deliberate or by accident only the senders could say. It would not be >the first time a private message went to the list (I've done it myself). > >Kreigh From tomrbowers at yahoo.com Wed Oct 5 06:36:12 2005 From: tomrbowers at yahoo.com (Tom Bowers) Date: Wed Oct 5 06:36:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine In-Reply-To: <00ac01c5c891$8e0d0c00$5f87633f@marilyn> Message-ID: <20051005133613.15703.qmail@web30907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I know for a fact Rockhound was around from 1972 - 1977, perhaps earlier and/or later than that. I too am interested in getting copies and hope to get a complete set. If you find any duplicates let me know and I'll do the same for you. Tom Steve & Marilyn wrote: Looking for copies of Rockhound magazine they seem to have lots of old field trip info I have a few copies from the late seventies any Idea how long they published and any one have any extra copies/suggestions? Steve T smtravis@plateautel.net Also I'm going to Alpine Marfa Needle peak and Terlingua this weekend to hunt any suggestions/ Keep on rockin By the way all you northerners were still in the high 80's low 90's and happy for the cool down. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapidry at aol.com Wed Oct 5 06:44:02 2005 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 5 06:44:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine Message-ID: <62.5e93755c.307532a2@aol.com> In a message dated 10/5/2005 9:36:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, tomrbowers@yahoo.com writes: I know for a fact Rockhound was around from 1972 - 1977, perhaps earlier and/or later than that. I too am interested in getting copies and hope to get a complete set. If you find any duplicates let me know and I'll do the same for you. They published from January/February of 1972 to at least July/August of 1980. Six issues per year. I have quite a few holes in my collection too so I can't swear to a final publication date. Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 07:21:30 2005 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Oct 5 07:21:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Agate Collecting Localities (was Rockhound magazine) Message-ID: Steve, John, et al For the rest of us who are not local to your area please let us know what State (or country) you are referring to in your posts about collecting localities. I'm guessing that it is Texas but would prefer to not guess. Thanks for the interesting posts. Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 10/4/05, Steve & Marilyn wrote: > John thanks for the info you should try the walker ranch borders the > woodard on the south, better hunting in my opinion and only $35 per day to > pick up all you want and it is good maybe great, call Teri Smith at the > antelope lodge in Alpine to set up a day trip we are going there and I > picked up over 100 lb in about 4 hrs with lots of plume and moss just a > recommendation much cheaper tha $2 lb from trey but no opal that I know of > we are going to Needle peak with Trey so I'm not bad mouthing him. Any way > thanks for the heads up we know balmoreau is used up but thanks again for > the info Ill try some of your locations maybe email you about the trip > later. Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 2:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine > > > > On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 21:13 -0600, Steve & Marilyn wrote: > >> Also I'm going to Alpine Marfa Needle peak and Terlingua this weekend > >> to hunt any suggestions/ Keep on rockin By the way all you northerners > >> were still in the high 80's low 90's and happy for the cool down. > > > > > > I was out there in July for a few weeks. It was hot! I covered the area > > from Balmorhea down to the river below Black Gap WMA. > > > > Balmorhea is interesting but not productive. One can still find some of > > the blue agate but only with a lot of searching. The best area is to the > > E and SE of the lake. One has better luck around Toyah as there is still > > lots of float agate around; I even found what I think is a meteorite > > from the Odessa fall by the San Martin Draw road. But be prepared to do > > some sleuthing for good areas. > > > > Take the loop road 118/166 around the Davis mountains. It is nice > > scenery and interesting geologically. Don't forget to stop at the > > McDonald Observatory. During the day there is a lecture and trip to the > > solar observatory for viewing, as well as a tour of the big 'scope. > > The S part of Rte 166 goes through some interesting ash flows. > > > > Below Marfa, take Rte 169 and check the roadside at interesting areas. > > There is a lot of agate here but it is all clear. (One of the guys at > > HGMS said it is very good for doublets and triplets.) Still, it is so > > nice to look across a fence and see a field !littered! with large chunks > > of agate. No need to cross fences; there is lots of material along the > > road. Follow this road to the end for the ghost town of Plata and some > > very good birding along the creek with giant cottonwoods, etc. Be > > prepared for border patrol checkpoints and some curiosity about your > > activities. The road is paved and excellent to Plata. > > > > Don't forget the Woodward Ranch. Trey has expanded the RV area and > > camping is good. The best search areas are on the E side with lots of > > carnelian and moss as well as other varieties. No plume though; that is > > on the W side. I found one good plume bisquit and buckets of red and > > yellow moss. The E side is 4WD. Trey can fill you in on the current > > state of things further South as well. > > > > Just below Marathon is The Post, once an army post but now a little lake > > and picnic area. The birding is fantastic, and mostly only the locals > > even know it is there. > > > > The "chrysoprase" location mentioned as being below Marathon at a > > roadside park is not. It is lots of bluish colored flint and there is > > not too much of interest. But the roadside park itself is a meeting area > > for illegal immigrants and attracts a lot of attention from the border > > patrol. That being said the geology along this road is fantastic with a > > mix of volcanics and major uplifts in several different directions. It > > has been fairly well deciphered but is worthy of more than one PhD > > dissertation. > > > > Stillwell's was disappointing in that the ranch has been sold and only a > > small portion next to FM 2627 is available for hunting rocks. The RV > > facilities are open and minimal. But there is the museum which is worth > > a trip for anyone interested in the first-person history of the area. > > But I did find some good material and artifacts are common as this was a > > trade route for the Indians of the area. One of my best finds was in a > > rock-pile beside the road just below Stillwell's, a 6 lb Rio Grande > > geode with blue and white bands and Quartz crystal center. > > > > Follow FM 2627 through Black Gap WMF to the river at Heath Canyon. This > > time of year there may be hunters in the area after big game. At the > > river one can go down to the bank and the gravel bars through the > > river-rafting launch right-of-way. This was once a fluorspar mining area > > so there is also some of that around. Park near the bridge (which is > > now closed) as the parking area up to the right is a "fee area", the > > idea of some one of the locals. Heath Canyon is where the river closes > > down to a few feet and the high canyon walls are very impressive. It is > > the start of the Rio Grande Wild and Scenic Rivers trips, which usually > > end down-river in Langtry. There was a fair amount of water in the river > > in July, but not enough to sustain any trips according to the local > > guides. > > > > As in all of this area, expect some interest from the border patrol. > > There are a few families left in the Mexican town of Santa Rita, but > > they are in pretty dire straits since the mine and the bridge closed. > > There are on-going appeals for food and clothing donations to help them. > > > > I didn't cover the W side of Big Bend this time except for Woodward's. > > My primary modus operendi was to follow the guide books and see just how > > good they were (not very) and go to Balmorhea and Woodward's (nice). > > > > As for the rest, that's next year... > > > > Why the mention of the birding places? Well, the other half of this > > family is way into birds, and good rock places are not good bird places, > > and usually vice versa. Ah, well. Life is full of little compromises. > > > > > > john > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Wed Oct 5 08:46:17 2005 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Wed Oct 5 08:46:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine In-Reply-To: <1128457184.5134.68.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20051005154617.91319.qmail@web35615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> And the location is where????? john wrote:On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 21:13 -0600, Steve & Marilyn wrote: > Also I'm going to Alpine Marfa Needle peak and Terlingua this weekend to hunt any suggestions/ Keep on rockin By the way all you northerners were still in the high 80's low 90's and happy for the cool down. I was out there in July for a few weeks. It was hot! I covered the area from Balmorhea down to the river below Black Gap WMA. Balmorhea is interesting but not productive. One can still find some of the blue agate but only with a lot of searching. The best area is to the E and SE of the lake. One has better luck around Toyah as there is still lots of float agate around; I even found what I think is a meteorite from the Odessa fall by the San Martin Draw road. But be prepared to do some sleuthing for good areas. Take the loop road 118/166 around the Davis mountains. It is nice scenery and interesting geologically. Don't forget to stop at the McDonald Observatory. During the day there is a lecture and trip to the solar observatory for viewing, as well as a tour of the big 'scope. The S part of Rte 166 goes through some interesting ash flows. Below Marfa, take Rte 169 and check the roadside at interesting areas. There is a lot of agate here but it is all clear. (One of the guys at HGMS said it is very good for doublets and triplets.) Still, it is so nice to look across a fence and see a field !littered! with large chunks of agate. No need to cross fences; there is lots of material along the road. Follow this road to the end for the ghost town of Plata and some very good birding along the creek with giant cottonwoods, etc. Be prepared for border patrol checkpoints and some curiosity about your activities. The road is paved and excellent to Plata. Don't forget the Woodward Ranch. Trey has expanded the RV area and camping is good. The best search areas are on the E side with lots of carnelian and moss as well as other varieties. No plume though; that is on the W side. I found one good plume bisquit and buckets of red and yellow moss. The E side is 4WD. Trey can fill you in on the current state of things further South as well. Just below Marathon is The Post, once an army post but now a little lake and picnic area. The birding is fantastic, and mostly only the locals even know it is there. The "chrysoprase" location mentioned as being below Marathon at a roadside park is not. It is lots of bluish colored flint and there is not too much of interest. But the roadside park itself is a meeting area for illegal immigrants and attracts a lot of attention from the border patrol. That being said the geology along this road is fantastic with a mix of volcanics and major uplifts in several different directions. It has been fairly well deciphered but is worthy of more than one PhD dissertation. Stillwell's was disappointing in that the ranch has been sold and only a small portion next to FM 2627 is available for hunting rocks. The RV facilities are open and minimal. But there is the museum which is worth a trip for anyone interested in the first-person history of the area. But I did find some good material and artifacts are common as this was a trade route for the Indians of the area. One of my best finds was in a rock-pile beside the road just below Stillwell's, a 6 lb Rio Grande geode with blue and white bands and Quartz crystal center. Follow FM 2627 through Black Gap WMF to the river at Heath Canyon. This time of year there may be hunters in the area after big game. At the river one can go down to the bank and the gravel bars through the river-rafting launch right-of-way. This was once a fluorspar mining area so there is also some of that around. Park near the bridge (which is now closed) as the parking area up to the right is a "fee area", the idea of some one of the locals. Heath Canyon is where the river closes down to a few feet and the high canyon walls are very impressive. It is the start of the Rio Grande Wild and Scenic Rivers trips, which usually end down-river in Langtry. There was a fair amount of water in the river in July, but not enough to sustain any trips according to the local guides. As in all of this area, expect some interest from the border patrol. There are a few families left in the Mexican town of Santa Rita, but they are in pretty dire straits since the mine and the bridge closed. There are on-going appeals for food and clothing donations to help them. I didn't cover the W side of Big Bend this time except for Woodward's. My primary modus operendi was to follow the guide books and see just how good they were (not very) and go to Balmorhea and Woodward's (nice). As for the rest, that's next year... Why the mention of the birding places? Well, the other half of this family is way into birds, and good rock places are not good bird places, and usually vice versa. Ah, well. Life is full of little compromises. john _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Wed Oct 5 09:33:59 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Oct 5 09:32:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] polymorph minerals In-Reply-To: <43431EE8.1010107@ptd.net> References: <433F74DD.50108@verizon.net> <000301c5c725$20d6c2b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> <434010DC.5000704@verizon.net> <000501c5c781$ecf51340$78f1edc1@mpc1> <4340302B.7010802@verizon.net> <000701c5c78d$0ed7b160$6401a8c0@maingear> <434042DD.8060607@verizon.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051002144815.028cb4f8@orerockon.com> <0f08a204703a9af4ddacda09fd119aa0@lrream.com> <43431EE8.1010107@ptd.net> Message-ID: <010af2dea38af405e1ebcc9ed57b678d@lrream.com> Hi Dennis, Right off hand, I can't say for sure that I've seen kyanite in the same outcrop or hand specimen with garnet in these Idaho locations, with one exception. On the east side of Moses Butte (way east of Clarkia and Emerald Creek), which has a lot of kyanite high on the north ridge in schist, nice small crystals of red garnet (between spessartine and almandine in composition) occur a short distance to the south in anorthosite, garnet (almandine, rounded, granular crystals to bowling ball size) high up on the south ridge in schist, more rounded almandine below the kyanite down near the road and tiny almandine crystals in the schist along the road on the south side, also has one area in the trees on the east side where there are boulders (perhaps outcrops) of a coarse schistose rock that has more of the crude, rounded, granular almandine crystals. These have crude almandine crystals have inclusions of kyanite (although they may actually be andalusite, I didn't test the hardness or cleavage to try to make a determination, but my bet is on kyanite). Also, the red garnets are within 50 feet, maybe even 20-30 feet, of the kyanite on the north ridge, at least 1/3 smaller area than your "under 50 yards" specimen"! Staurolite with tiny almandine crystals are common throughout this region. Almandine-bearing rock is commonly near kyanite-bearing rock so that when you are looking at kyanite in situ you can also pick up garnets at your feet in the soil, outcrops near by, but contacts buried. Sillimanite is another matter, it is probably actually common but is difficult to see in the field. It is of course identified in thin section and thus mentioned in many of the geologic reports, but only the areas with large pieces, thus having lapidary potential, are "commonly known." If a person was to read through all the literature and make note of the reported sillimanite occurrences, I wouldn't be surprised if areas with all three (kyanite, andalusite, sillimanite) either close together, and rarely in a hand specimen, could be found. The metamorphism in that area is really complex. Regards, Lanny On Oct 4, 2005, at 5:31 PM, Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: > Ok folks, > something must have struck a bell or something, because this whole > idea, now, has "reverberated" from one side of the states to the > other. Just yesterday, I was collecting with a friend, for garnet in > the eastern portion of the U.S. and commented that it appeared there > was sillimanite associcated with the garnet. To this he replied, that > well yes, of course, we were in a schistose type environment and that > kyanite is found not too far from where we were, to which I commented > that I had NEVER seen garnet in direct association with kyanite. > Staurolite yes; and quite often; but not kyanite. So this whole > thing of Freezeout..... is it possible to have a piece under 50 yards > across that has both well formed garnet and kyanite in the same > piece?? Does anyone have any specualtions as to what may have been the > variable for the near porximity of differant grades of metamorphism? > This whole thing sounds like some fairly "heady" stuff......... > >> >> >> This is very interesting, I've never paid much attention to the >> reports of all three occurring in one spot in that region. The >> metamorphism grade is so screwed up in the region I wonder if there >> aren't several places where all three occur. Makes me wish I had >> ready access to a geology library! >> >> , look in the road for almandine crystals. They are common all >> through there, most are reddish granular crystals, but good euhedral >> crystals are not exactly scarce. Freezeout has an area where fairly >> good almandine crystals to about 6 inches or more across have been >> found; there is nice blue kyanite just north of that spot. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Oct 5 11:04:38 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Oct 5 11:04:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium In-Reply-To: <434331AD.7BD6@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <200510051804.j95I4dhg012049@outmx008.isp.belgacom.be> Yes; Kreigh, that's it very probably. I looked at the photos on that website, and found not only interesting photos of the phenomenon we observed in Malaysia, but also lots of other interesting thins. Thank you for the hint. And yes, its (nearly) on topic, as ice crystals are part of the mineral kingdom... Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:55 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium Rik, I have not seen your upsidedown rainbow picture, but I am willing to bet it looks like the one at http://www.sundog.clara.co.uk/halo/cza.htm which is really a circumzenithal arc. High ice crystals in the sky can make a whole bunch of odd arcs and circles in the sky which this website nicely describes. On cold winter days we see some of these phenomena in Michigan so I am familiar with many of them. Kreigh Rik Dillen wrote: > > Voil? ! Any explanation for this strange phenomenon ? > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Steve & Marilyn > Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 12:11 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium > > If it would not be to much trouble please send me a copy (email) of your > rainbow pic. All the best Steve Travis smtravis@plateautel.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rik Dillen" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 1:04 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium > > > Huh, weird phenomenon here in Belgium ? That doesn't surprise me. > > Everything is weird here. > > I photographed I very strange rainbow as well, in Tanah Rata, Cameron > > Highlands, Malaysia this year : the rainbow was > > upside down, on a steel blue sky... very strange phenomenon. > > I send a few images of this natural event off-line to Bill & Kitty ; if > > someone else wants them, please let me know. I > > cannot post them on my website, as at present I have no software installed > > for web-page design, and writing html is too > > tedious for me ! > > > > Regards, > > > > Rik DILLEN > > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > > Belgium > > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>>> Belgian minerals > >>>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>>> Exchange list > > > > MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 > > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill > > Heacox > > Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2005 6:59 AM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: [Rockhounds] (OT) mystery rainbow in Belgium > > > > Hi all who are interested in natural phenomena, > > > > The following website is neat as a general rule, but today it has a piece > > on a solar eclipse to be seen in Europe, Africa and the Middle East, > > followed by one on a mystery rainbow photographed in Belgium. It appeared > > to occur after sunset, without rain. > > > > http://spaceweather.com/ > > > > Aloha, Kitty _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 11:11:01 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Oct 5 11:11:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] A real surprise---what? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051004173531.031eccc8@incoming.verizon.net> References: <4341F028.3020908@rcn.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20051003204313.035ba9b0@incoming.verizon.net> <434316D7.70BA@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20051004173531.031eccc8@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: I'll have to be more carefull when I click reply. This Gmail is not as user friendly as AOL was. Grant On 10/4/05, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > OK, it appears Grant sent his message to the List by mistake. The reason I > thought it did not go to the List (aside from its private content) was that > it did not have the addresses (List-Post, List-Subscribe, etc) at the top, > nor the signature lines at the bottom. I'm used to seeing all those blue > underlined addresses as an instant visual cue of a List post. I've never > seen this happen before. > > I'm still confused by Georgia's post, but I apologize to the List if I > compounded the confusion. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 02:00 PM 10/4/2005, you wrote: > >Kitty, > > > >It appears that both messages were sent to the List. Whether it was > >deliberate or by accident only the senders could say. It would not be > >the first time a private message went to the list (I've done it myself). > > > >Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Oct 5 12:35:50 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Oct 5 12:35:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another Challenge for Rock Message-ID: <100520051935.10695.43442B15000C8660000029C7216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi to Darryl, and List, (Pardon me if someone's already replied about this and I missed it), I'm pretty sure that "Bob" Roots was from the Denver area, and a lot of the old-timers from here, knew him. I'll have to think about where to find any actual sources of written info about him; most of the afore-mentioned "old timers" from around here who'd have known him, probably don't have email so I wouldn't reach them that way. I'll write back if I find anything more concrete, Pete -------------- Original message from "Darryl Powell" : -------------- > Dear List, > First, I thank those of you who responded to my request for information on > Curt Segeler. As always, a number of you came through! A special "thank you" > to Rock Currier for writing a fun and lengthy reflection on Curt. It was > thoroughly enjoyable. Rock, thank you as well for all the time you spend > responding to many list posts. You have often taken the time to write > extensively and thoughtfully much to our benefit. > So, Rock, here's another challenge for you (and for others as well). What > can you tell us about a collector named Robert D. Roots? He wrote an article or > two for Rocks and Minerals in the 1950s. Beyond that ???? > Thanks to all! Here's wishing you much happiness and good health. > > Sincerely, > Darryl Powell > Manchester, NY > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Oct 5 13:27:59 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Oct 5 13:20:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Boron California References: <200510050102.j9512TlJ015875@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003001c5c9eb$47d92d80$36e3a5d8@rock5> For any of you that may pass through Boron California in the future and are interested in looking at good minreals, the best collection of borate minerals in existance is located in the home of Dawn Minette in Boron. The collection was put togather over 40 years by her and her husband Jim Minette. Jim Minette was a mining engineer and for many years was mine manager there at Boron. He unfortunately died some years ago. They also have what is probably one of the best collectionsof smithsonite in existance and one of the very finest TN collections. Dawn will probably be glad to show you the collecton if she is in town and you ask nicely. I think she is n the phone book. Rock From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Oct 5 13:29:31 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Oct 5 13:21:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any in your collection? References: <200510050102.j9512TlJ015875@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003401c5c9eb$7e739a10$36e3a5d8@rock5> ============================================================== Seattle Times -- 10/04/2005 -- Pacific Northwest Section ============================================================== Kirkland School evacuated for uranium rock A Juanita High School student faces disciplinary action after bringing a low-level radioactive rock to school Friday. Officials yesterday hadn't determined what action might be taken. The school was evacuated about 7:50 a.m. while a hazardous-material team investigated for possible contamination. Students were allowed back in class by the end of first period after no contamination was found, said Kathryn Reith, Lake Washington School District spokeswoman. The rock was discovered after a bus driver overheard the boy telling friends he had a uranium rock with him. The driver reported it to school officials, who notified the Fire Department, Reith said. The Fire Department ordered the school to be evacuated, she said. High-school officials intercepted the boy and confiscated the rock, which he had in a wooden box, and a Geiger counter, Reith said. Fire officials checked the rock and found it to have a low level of radiation, Reith said. They also checked the bus and the portable classroom the rock was taken to and found no radiation or contamination, she said. The boy said the rock was purchased over eBay, Reith said. From jcharles at csusm.edu Wed Oct 5 13:32:54 2005 From: jcharles at csusm.edu (Jeffrey Charles) Date: Wed Oct 5 13:32:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any in yourcollection? Message-ID: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B036F9794@priority> I'm happy to see that Lake Washington school officials are finally cracking down on those bad elements! (Sorry--couldn't resist.) Jeff Charles -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock Currier Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:30 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any in yourcollection? ============================================================== Seattle Times -- 10/04/2005 -- Pacific Northwest Section ============================================================== Kirkland School evacuated for uranium rock A Juanita High School student faces disciplinary action after bringing a low-level radioactive rock to school Friday. Officials yesterday hadn't determined what action might be taken. The school was evacuated about 7:50 a.m. while a hazardous-material team investigated for possible contamination. Students were allowed back in class by the end of first period after no contamination was found, said Kathryn Reith, Lake Washington School District spokeswoman. The rock was discovered after a bus driver overheard the boy telling friends he had a uranium rock with him. The driver reported it to school officials, who notified the Fire Department, Reith said. The Fire Department ordered the school to be evacuated, she said. High-school officials intercepted the boy and confiscated the rock, which he had in a wooden box, and a Geiger counter, Reith said. Fire officials checked the rock and found it to have a low level of radiation, Reith said. They also checked the bus and the portable classroom the rock was taken to and found no radiation or contamination, she said. The boy said the rock was purchased over eBay, Reith said. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From digem at plateautel.net Wed Oct 5 13:47:16 2005 From: digem at plateautel.net (Allison & Wayne Holland) Date: Wed Oct 5 13:42:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 36" saw? Message-ID: <43443BD4.3010300@plateautel.net> Can anyone tell me what a 36" saw cost these days? I don't care if it's homemade or not? Also where I can find one? Thanks Allison From agesilaus at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 13:43:03 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Oct 5 13:43:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Agate Collecting Localities (was Rockhound magazine) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is Texas, the southeast cormer down near Terlinqua and Alpine. I've been by that rest stop and it didn't have anyone hanging around it in those days. Bryan On 10/5/05, Nathan Martin wrote: > > Steve, John, et al > > For the rest of us who are not local to your area please let us know > what State (or country) you are referring to in your posts about > collecting localities. I'm guessing that it is Texas but would prefer > to not guess. > > Thanks for the interesting posts. > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > > > On 10/4/05, Steve & Marilyn wrote: > > John thanks for the info you should try the walker ranch borders the > > woodard on the south, better hunting in my opinion and only $35 per day > to > > pick up all you want and it is good maybe great, call Teri Smith at the > > antelope lodge in Alpine to set up a day trip we are going there and I > > picked up over 100 lb in about 4 hrs with lots of plume and moss just a > > recommendation much cheaper tha $2 lb from trey but no opal that I know > of > > we are going to Needle peak with Trey so I'm not bad mouthing him. Any > way > > thanks for the heads up we know balmoreau is used up but thanks again > for > > the info Ill try some of your locations maybe email you about the trip > > later. Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "john" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 2:19 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine > > > > > > > On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 21:13 -0600, Steve & Marilyn wrote: > > >> Also I'm going to Alpine Marfa Needle peak and Terlingua this weekend > > >> to hunt any suggestions/ Keep on rockin By the way all you > northerners > > >> were still in the high 80's low 90's and happy for the cool down. > > > > > > > > > I was out there in July for a few weeks. It was hot! I covered the > area > > > from Balmorhea down to the river below Black Gap WMA. > > > > > > Balmorhea is interesting but not productive. One can still find some > of > > > the blue agate but only with a lot of searching. The best area is to > the > > > E and SE of the lake. One has better luck around Toyah as there is > still > > > lots of float agate around; I even found what I think is a meteorite > > > from the Odessa fall by the San Martin Draw road. But be prepared to > do > > > some sleuthing for good areas. > > > > > > Take the loop road 118/166 around the Davis mountains. It is nice > > > scenery and interesting geologically. Don't forget to stop at the > > > McDonald Observatory. During the day there is a lecture and trip to > the > > > solar observatory for viewing, as well as a tour of the big 'scope. > > > The S part of Rte 166 goes through some interesting ash flows. > > > > > > Below Marfa, take Rte 169 and check the roadside at interesting areas. > > > There is a lot of agate here but it is all clear. (One of the guys at > > > HGMS said it is very good for doublets and triplets.) Still, it is so > > > nice to look across a fence and see a field !littered! with large > chunks > > > of agate. No need to cross fences; there is lots of material along the > > > road. Follow this road to the end for the ghost town of Plata and some > > > very good birding along the creek with giant cottonwoods, etc. Be > > > prepared for border patrol checkpoints and some curiosity about your > > > activities. The road is paved and excellent to Plata. > > > > > > Don't forget the Woodward Ranch. Trey has expanded the RV area and > > > camping is good. The best search areas are on the E side with lots of > > > carnelian and moss as well as other varieties. No plume though; that > is > > > on the W side. I found one good plume bisquit and buckets of red and > > > yellow moss. The E side is 4WD. Trey can fill you in on the current > > > state of things further South as well. > > > > > > Just below Marathon is The Post, once an army post but now a little > lake > > > and picnic area. The birding is fantastic, and mostly only the locals > > > even know it is there. > > > > > > The "chrysoprase" location mentioned as being below Marathon at a > > > roadside park is not. It is lots of bluish colored flint and there is > > > not too much of interest. But the roadside park itself is a meeting > area > > > for illegal immigrants and attracts a lot of attention from the border > > > patrol. That being said the geology along this road is fantastic with > a > > > mix of volcanics and major uplifts in several different directions. It > > > has been fairly well deciphered but is worthy of more than one PhD > > > dissertation. > > > > > > Stillwell's was disappointing in that the ranch has been sold and only > a > > > small portion next to FM 2627 is available for hunting rocks. The RV > > > facilities are open and minimal. But there is the museum which is > worth > > > a trip for anyone interested in the first-person history of the area. > > > But I did find some good material and artifacts are common as this was > a > > > trade route for the Indians of the area. One of my best finds was in a > > > rock-pile beside the road just below Stillwell's, a 6 lb Rio Grande > > > geode with blue and white bands and Quartz crystal center. > > > > > > Follow FM 2627 through Black Gap WMF to the river at Heath Canyon. > This > > > time of year there may be hunters in the area after big game. At the > > > river one can go down to the bank and the gravel bars through the > > > river-rafting launch right-of-way. This was once a fluorspar mining > area > > > so there is also some of that around. Park near the bridge (which is > > > now closed) as the parking area up to the right is a "fee area", the > > > idea of some one of the locals. Heath Canyon is where the river closes > > > down to a few feet and the high canyon walls are very impressive. It > is > > > the start of the Rio Grande Wild and Scenic Rivers trips, which > usually > > > end down-river in Langtry. There was a fair amount of water in the > river > > > in July, but not enough to sustain any trips according to the local > > > guides. > > > > > > As in all of this area, expect some interest from the border patrol. > > > There are a few families left in the Mexican town of Santa Rita, but > > > they are in pretty dire straits since the mine and the bridge closed. > > > There are on-going appeals for food and clothing donations to help > them. > > > > > > I didn't cover the W side of Big Bend this time except for Woodward's. > > > My primary modus operendi was to follow the guide books and see just > how > > > good they were (not very) and go to Balmorhea and Woodward's (nice). > > > > > > As for the rest, that's next year... > > > > > > Why the mention of the birding places? Well, the other half of this > > > family is way into birds, and good rock places are not good bird > places, > > > and usually vice versa. Ah, well. Life is full of little compromises. > > > > > > > > > john > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Oct 5 13:43:37 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Oct 5 13:43:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any in yourcollection? In-Reply-To: <003401c5c9eb$7e739a10$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: And the are TONS of radioactive flourescent rocks and marbles for sale there and in many other places...and such a low level of radioactivity that it takes a very sensitive meter to detect. Sounds like the typical overreaction we so often see these days, and the same folks would probably completely overlook any real threat or problem. Glenn From: "Rock Currier" <rockcurrier@cs.com> >============================================================== >Seattle Times -- 10/04/2005 -- Pacific Northwest Section >============================================================== > >Kirkland >School evacuated for uranium rock > >A Juanita High School student faces disciplinary action after bringing a >low-level radioactive rock to school Friday. Officials yesterday hadn't >determined what action might be taken. > >The school was evacuated about 7:50 a.m. while a hazardous-material team >investigated for possible contamination. Students were allowed back in class >by the end of first period after no contamination was found, said Kathryn >Reith, Lake Washington School District spokeswoman. > >The rock was discovered after a bus driver overheard the boy telling friends >he had a uranium rock with him. The driver reported it to school officials, >who notified the Fire Department, Reith said. The Fire Department ordered >the school to be evacuated, she said. > >High-school officials intercepted the boy and confiscated the rock, which he >had in a wooden box, and a Geiger counter, Reith said. Fire officials >checked the rock and found it to have a low level of radiation, Reith said. > >They also checked the bus and the portable classroom the rock was taken to >and found no radiation or contamination, she said. > >The boy said the rock was purchased over eBay, Reith said. > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ MSN Premium brings together everything you need on the Internet in 1 place, including PC security! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Oct 5 13:53:13 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Oct 5 13:54:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any inyourcollection? References: Message-ID: given the fact that there is Americium in smoke detectors (as well as all kinds of other everyday things)...yes, it's a little silly. It's not like the kid walked in with 300 grams of enriched plutonium!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:43 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any inyourcollection? > And the are TONS of radioactive flourescent rocks and marbles for sale > there and in many other places...and such a low level of radioactivity > that it takes a very sensitive meter to detect. > > Sounds like the typical overreaction we so often see these days, and the > same folks would probably completely overlook any real threat or problem. > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > From: "Rock Currier" <rockcurrier@cs.com> > >============================================================== > >Seattle Times -- 10/04/2005 -- Pacific Northwest Section > >============================================================== > > > >Kirkland > >School evacuated for uranium rock > > > >A Juanita High School student faces disciplinary action after bringing > a > >low-level radioactive rock to school Friday. Officials yesterday > hadn't > >determined what action might be taken. > > > >The school was evacuated about 7:50 a.m. while a hazardous-material > team > >investigated for possible contamination. Students were allowed back in > class > >by the end of first period after no contamination was found, said > Kathryn > >Reith, Lake Washington School District spokeswoman. > > > >The rock was discovered after a bus > driver overheard the boy telling friends > >he had a uranium rock with him. The driver reported it to school > officials, > >who notified the Fire Department, Reith said. The Fire Department > ordered > >the school to be evacuated, she said. > > > >High-school officials intercepted the boy and confiscated the rock, > which he > >had in a wooden box, and a Geiger counter, Reith said. Fire officials > >checked the rock and found it to have a low level of radiation, Reith > said. > > > >They also checked the bus and the portable classroom the rock was > taken to > >and found no radiation or contamination, she said. > > > >The boy said the rock was purchased over eBay, Reith said. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > MSN Premium brings together everything you need on the Internet in 1 > place, including PC security! > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Wed Oct 5 15:02:38 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Oct 5 15:06:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for John Backo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051005145145.028a3350@orerockon.com> If there is a John Backo on this list please contact me off-list. All my emails to you bounce & I'd hate to have to put your rock back in the buckets :( P.S. Somehow, replies to the list now default to "reply to all" whereas previously they defaulted to the list only. Perhaps this is part of the confusion over private/list posts in recent days? Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 5 15:43:27 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Oct 5 15:43:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any in your collection? In-Reply-To: <003401c5c9eb$7e739a10$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <20051005224327.95268.qmail@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A common knee-jerk reaction by the uneducated. Sounds like the school officials and fire department are the ones who should be students! Jim --- Rock Currier wrote: > ============================================================== > Seattle Times -- 10/04/2005 -- Pacific Northwest > Section > ============================================================== > > Kirkland > School evacuated for uranium rock > > A Juanita High School student faces disciplinary > action after bringing a > low-level radioactive rock to school Friday. > Officials yesterday hadn't > determined what action might be taken. > > The school was evacuated about 7:50 a.m. while a > hazardous-material team > investigated for possible contamination. Students > were allowed back in class > by the end of first period after no contamination > was found, said Kathryn > Reith, Lake Washington School District spokeswoman. > > The rock was discovered after a bus driver overheard > the boy telling friends > he had a uranium rock with him. The driver reported > it to school officials, > who notified the Fire Department, Reith said. The > Fire Department ordered > the school to be evacuated, she said. > > High-school officials intercepted the boy and > confiscated the rock, which he > had in a wooden box, and a Geiger counter, Reith > said. Fire officials > checked the rock and found it to have a low level of > radiation, Reith said. > > They also checked the bus and the portable classroom > the rock was taken to > and found no radiation or contamination, she said. > > The boy said the rock was purchased over eBay, Reith > said. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > ______________________________________________________ Yahoo! for Good Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ From albalmer at att.net Wed Oct 5 15:57:23 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Oct 5 15:53:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for John Backo In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051005145145.028a3350@orerockon.com> References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051005145145.028a3350@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <43445A53.50404@att.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > If there is a John Backo on this list please contact me off-list. All my > emails to you bounce & I'd hate to have to put your rock back in the > buckets :( > > P.S. Somehow, replies to the list now default to "reply to all" whereas > previously they defaulted to the list only. Perhaps this is part of the > confusion over private/list posts in recent days? Not for me, using Thunderbird. The Reply-To header looks OK: ==== Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" ==== Has anything changed in your Eudora settings? I notice that it's a beta version. From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Oct 5 16:40:11 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Oct 5 16:25:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting in strange places, Bob Root References: <200510052043.j95Khn69022284@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <010901c5ca06$2110a280$6901a8c0@rock3> Roger Dixon, will be travelling to Cuba, Panama, Costa Rica, Belize, Guatemala and Nicaragua Cuba apparently produced some OK cuprites in the years gone by, but I don't know much abut them. Panama produce probably the first know specimens o powlite on apophyllite according to Fed Pough, but I have never seen one. Certainly Costa Rica, Belize, Guatemala and Nicaragua also have minerals worth collecting. The best way to find them is to visit the geology departments in the local Universities and talk to the professors or visit the local equivalent of their Geological Survey and look at the specimens in their teaching collections and ask about currently producing mines and quarries etc. I don't know of any minerals on the market that are currently being produced from these places and localities you will find on MinDat or in the texts will most likely be old references. Trying to find and visit these localities without current knowledge about them will cause you to waste a huge amount of time. The professors can give you information you will need. There are no local rockhound clubs in these places. If he visits the universities and surveys, when he gets back I am sure all of us would very much like to hear what he found out. Bob Root was before my time. I just spoke with the legendary George Burnam who is now about 90 years old and still going strong. He recalls Bob Root as a Colorado dealer who dealt mostly out of his tail gate. He had tables at a few show where he sold mostly "rockhound" quality material that he could collect himself or get on the cuff from other dealers. He said that once in a great while he would visit George in Monrovia, California to see what he could scrounge. George told me that the last time he saw Bob was back in about 1955 when George was building his house and was closed for business. He said that Bob Root must have been at least 60 years old at that time and that he told Bob to go away because he needed to finish work on his house and Bob went away mad. Rock From smtravis at plateautel.net Wed Oct 5 16:56:23 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Wed Oct 5 16:56:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine References: <20051005154617.91319.qmail@web35615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04bc01c5ca08$6a6525d0$5f87633f@marilyn> There are lots of locations in Alpine TX in Marfa TX and in Terlingua TX and others for that matter Remember all land in TX is private so don't hunt without permission. If you need locations email me at smtravis@plateautel.net I can give you several for starters. Happy Trails Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "June Young" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine > And the location is where????? > > john wrote:On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 21:13 -0600, Steve & > Marilyn wrote: >> Also I'm going to Alpine Marfa Needle peak and Terlingua this weekend to >> hunt any suggestions/ Keep on rockin By the way all you northerners were >> still in the high 80's low 90's and happy for the cool down. > > > I was out there in July for a few weeks. It was hot! I covered the area > from Balmorhea down to the river below Black Gap WMA. > > Balmorhea is interesting but not productive. One can still find some of > the blue agate but only with a lot of searching. The best area is to the > E and SE of the lake. One has better luck around Toyah as there is still > lots of float agate around; I even found what I think is a meteorite > from the Odessa fall by the San Martin Draw road. But be prepared to do > some sleuthing for good areas. > > Take the loop road 118/166 around the Davis mountains. It is nice > scenery and interesting geologically. Don't forget to stop at the > McDonald Observatory. During the day there is a lecture and trip to the > solar observatory for viewing, as well as a tour of the big 'scope. > The S part of Rte 166 goes through some interesting ash flows. > > Below Marfa, take Rte 169 and check the roadside at interesting areas. > There is a lot of agate here but it is all clear. (One of the guys at > HGMS said it is very good for doublets and triplets.) Still, it is so > nice to look across a fence and see a field !littered! with large chunks > of agate. No need to cross fences; there is lots of material along the > road. Follow this road to the end for the ghost town of Plata and some > very good birding along the creek with giant cottonwoods, etc. Be > prepared for border patrol checkpoints and some curiosity about your > activities. The road is paved and excellent to Plata. > > Don't forget the Woodward Ranch. Trey has expanded the RV area and > camping is good. The best search areas are on the E side with lots of > carnelian and moss as well as other varieties. No plume though; that is > on the W side. I found one good plume bisquit and buckets of red and > yellow moss. The E side is 4WD. Trey can fill you in on the current > state of things further South as well. > > Just below Marathon is The Post, once an army post but now a little lake > and picnic area. The birding is fantastic, and mostly only the locals > even know it is there. > > The "chrysoprase" location mentioned as being below Marathon at a > roadside park is not. It is lots of bluish colored flint and there is > not too much of interest. But the roadside park itself is a meeting area > for illegal immigrants and attracts a lot of attention from the border > patrol. That being said the geology along this road is fantastic with a > mix of volcanics and major uplifts in several different directions. It > has been fairly well deciphered but is worthy of more than one PhD > dissertation. > > Stillwell's was disappointing in that the ranch has been sold and only a > small portion next to FM 2627 is available for hunting rocks. The RV > facilities are open and minimal. But there is the museum which is worth > a trip for anyone interested in the first-person history of the area. > But I did find some good material and artifacts are common as this was a > trade route for the Indians of the area. One of my best finds was in a > rock-pile beside the road just below Stillwell's, a 6 lb Rio Grande > geode with blue and white bands and Quartz crystal center. > > Follow FM 2627 through Black Gap WMF to the river at Heath Canyon. This > time of year there may be hunters in the area after big game. At the > river one can go down to the bank and the gravel bars through the > river-rafting launch right-of-way. This was once a fluorspar mining area > so there is also some of that around. Park near the bridge (which is > now closed) as the parking area up to the right is a "fee area", the > idea of some one of the locals. Heath Canyon is where the river closes > down to a few feet and the high canyon walls are very impressive. It is > the start of the Rio Grande Wild and Scenic Rivers trips, which usually > end down-river in Langtry. There was a fair amount of water in the river > in July, but not enough to sustain any trips according to the local > guides. > > As in all of this area, expect some interest from the border patrol. > There are a few families left in the Mexican town of Santa Rita, but > they are in pretty dire straits since the mine and the bridge closed. > There are on-going appeals for food and clothing donations to help them. > > I didn't cover the W side of Big Bend this time except for Woodward's. > My primary modus operendi was to follow the guide books and see just how > good they were (not very) and go to Balmorhea and Woodward's (nice). > > As for the rest, that's next year... > > Why the mention of the birding places? Well, the other half of this > family is way into birds, and good rock places are not good bird places, > and usually vice versa. Ah, well. Life is full of little compromises. > > > john > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! for Good > Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 5 18:11:43 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 5 18:05:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 36" saw? References: <43443BD4.3010300@plateautel.net> Message-ID: <4344784B.7206@Tomaszewski.net> Allison & Wayne Holland wrote: > > Can anyone tell me what a 36" saw cost these days? I don't care if it's > homemade or not? Also where I can find one? Thanks > Allison > Go to Google.com and do a search for "36 inch rock saw". You will get about 1.8 million hits, but following the first page or two of links will find you new, used, and commercial saws from a variety of makers at a variety of prices. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 5 18:29:36 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 5 18:23:09 2005 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Reply to all References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051005145145.028a3350@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <43447C7A.513E@Tomaszewski.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > > P.S. Somehow, replies to the list now default to "reply to all" > whereas previously they defaulted to the list only. Perhaps this is > part of the confusion over private/list posts in recent days? The list has been Reply-To-List for years. Some mail clients can over-ride the default Reply-To headers and use From instead. If it has changed for you I would suggest it is a setting on your PC that has changed. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 5 19:09:06 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 5 19:02:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in your collection? References: <200510050102.j9512TlJ015875@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <003401c5c9eb$7e739a10$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <434485B6.43E1@Tomaszewski.net> In the case of another element gone bad, we recently had a local high schooler who brought some Mercury to school he found at home and spilled a dime sized blob in a classroom. The school was evacuated, took two days for a hazmat team to clean up at a cost of over $40,000, and the teen was charged with a felony. A plea was finally worked out after it got to Court, the student apologized for his bad decision, and paid part of the cleanup costs, so the charges were finally dropped. The poor kid came real close to going to jail for six years. I wonder what the reaction would be if I brought in a chunk of asbestos for a classroom talk? But it does raise the serious question of of what hazardous minerals any of us might have in our collections (possibly without knowing how dangerous they are), and what protections we should be taking with them. Kreigh Rock Currier wrote: > > ============================================================== > Seattle Times -- 10/04/2005 -- Pacific Northwest Section > ============================================================== > > Kirkland > School evacuated for uranium rock > > A Juanita High School student faces disciplinary action after bringing a > low-level radioactive rock to school Friday. Officials yesterday hadn't > determined what action might be taken. > > The school was evacuated about 7:50 a.m. while a hazardous-material team > investigated for possible contamination. Students were allowed back in class > by the end of first period after no contamination was found, said Kathryn > Reith, Lake Washington School District spokeswoman. > > The rock was discovered after a bus driver overheard the boy telling friends > he had a uranium rock with him. The driver reported it to school officials, > who notified the Fire Department, Reith said. The Fire Department ordered > the school to be evacuated, she said. > > High-school officials intercepted the boy and confiscated the rock, which he > had in a wooden box, and a Geiger counter, Reith said. Fire officials > checked the rock and found it to have a low level of radiation, Reith said. > > They also checked the bus and the portable classroom the rock was taken to > and found no radiation or contamination, she said. > > The boy said the rock was purchased over eBay, Reith said. From tomrbowers at yahoo.com Wed Oct 5 19:57:53 2005 From: tomrbowers at yahoo.com (Tom Bowers) Date: Wed Oct 5 19:57:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in your collection? In-Reply-To: <434485B6.43E1@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20051006025753.70900.qmail@web30914.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As a kid growing up, my next door neighbor had a pint jar with about 2" of mercury in the bottom collected from broken thermometers. We used to play with it, handle it, coat coins with it, etc. and think (nor know) nothing of it. I wonder what I would be like today had I not played with mercury as a kid. (I won't even go into the radioactive ores that we used to play with using his folks old geiger counter to make wild clicking noises to annoy his big sister while she was studying.) Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote:In the case of another element gone bad, we recently had a local high schooler who brought some Mercury to school he found at home and spilled a dime sized blob in a classroom. The school was evacuated, took two days for a hazmat team to clean up at a cost of over $40,000, and the teen was charged with a felony. A plea was finally worked out after it got to Court, the student apologized for his bad decision, and paid part of the cleanup costs, so the charges were finally dropped. The poor kid came real close to going to jail for six years. I wonder what the reaction would be if I brought in a chunk of asbestos for a classroom talk? But it does raise the serious question of of what hazardous minerals any of us might have in our collections (possibly without knowing how dangerous they are), and what protections we should be taking with them. Kreigh Rock Currier wrote: > > ============================================================== > Seattle Times -- 10/04/2005 -- Pacific Northwest Section > ============================================================== > > Kirkland > School evacuated for uranium rock > > A Juanita High School student faces disciplinary action after bringing a > low-level radioactive rock to school Friday. Officials yesterday hadn't > determined what action might be taken. > > The school was evacuated about 7:50 a.m. while a hazardous-material team > investigated for possible contamination. Students were allowed back in class > by the end of first period after no contamination was found, said Kathryn > Reith, Lake Washington School District spokeswoman. > > The rock was discovered after a bus driver overheard the boy telling friends > he had a uranium rock with him. The driver reported it to school officials, > who notified the Fire Department, Reith said. The Fire Department ordered > the school to be evacuated, she said. > > High-school officials intercepted the boy and confiscated the rock, which he > had in a wooden box, and a Geiger counter, Reith said. Fire officials > checked the rock and found it to have a low level of radiation, Reith said. > > They also checked the bus and the portable classroom the rock was taken to > and found no radiation or contamination, she said. > > The boy said the rock was purchased over eBay, Reith said. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Oct 5 20:41:03 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Oct 5 20:41:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in your collection? References: <200510050102.j9512TlJ015875@bubbleator.drizzle.com><003401c5c9eb$7e739a10$36e3a5d8@rock5> <434485B6.43E1@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001701c5ca27$c72cbb60$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Sssshhhhh........ I still have a small blob of mercury I collected from broken thermometers when I was a kid (at least 45 years ago). After dropping it several times plus coating dimes with it, it's only half what I used to have. I guess I'll have to will it to one of my rockhounding grandchildren with the appropriate cautions. I also have some of the Uranium marbles that fluoresces green, maybe I better NOT give the kids one of those, huh? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:09 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in your collection? > In the case of another element gone bad, we recently had a local high > schooler who brought some Mercury to school he found at home and spilled > a dime sized blob in a classroom. The school was evacuated, took two > days for a hazmat team to clean up at a cost of over $40,000, and the > teen was charged with a felony. A plea was finally worked out after it > got to Court, the student apologized for his bad decision, and paid part > of the cleanup costs, so the charges were finally dropped. The poor kid > came real close to going to jail for six years. > From smtravis at plateautel.net Wed Oct 5 20:57:59 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Wed Oct 5 20:58:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials Message-ID: <050201c5ca2a$28bf4cb0$5f87633f@marilyn> lets start the looong list: Orpiment, realgar, cinnabar, mercury minerals, Mercury vapor will kill instantly don't let it get hot, lead minerals, cyanide minerals.... By the way uranium minerals (I have lots from my uranium exploration days) are not usually dangerous even the green glass balls until they are concentrated. did I hear rad sources medical sources Oil and gas logging sources etc Whats this about a kid with 300 g of Plutonium? the kids now days take a mercury thermometer and break it in the halls for a day off school. been doing it for years. I have been working with hazardous waste for 15 yr. and now work at the WIPP site the only permitted rad disposal site in the world...only DOE waste though. Be careful out there. Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Wed Oct 5 22:01:01 2005 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Wed Oct 5 22:00:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Techno-phobic Ninnies Flee Uranium Ore Sample at School Message-ID: <004801c5ca32$f37b0b30$e2fbb3d1@TheBlackAdder> Rock, Thanks for posting this article from the Seattle Times. It illustrates the ignorance of the public concerning low level radiation. When my wife took a dose of I-131 as treatment for thyroid cancer, she and her urine were about 1,000 times more radioactive for several days, than a fist sized piece of autinite is. It was a good opportunity to test my Geiger counters. My wife is clean of the cancer by the way. As toxicologist Bruce Ames has often said, "the dose makes the poison", and we're talking about totally harmless amounts of radioactivity here. But mention "radioactive" and people act like freakin' loons. This is really sad. The kid, a budding scientist no doubt, is made to feel like an outlaw because scientifically ignorant school administrators who are scared to death of lawsuits from the techno-phobic public, make a big issue of a harmless piece of uranium ore which anyone can buy from a science teaching supply catalog for $15. and have it sent through the mail. I know, because that's how I got the piece I have. It's not nearly as radioactive as a good specimen of autinite or novacekite, both uranium ores, and harmless. Erich Kern ============================================================== Seattle Times -- 10/04/2005 -- Pacific Northwest Section ============================================================== Kirkland School evacuated for uranium rock A Juanita High School student faces disciplinary action after bringing a low-level radioactive rock to school Friday. Officials yesterday hadn't determined what action might be taken. The school was evacuated about 7:50 a.m. while a hazardous-material team investigated for possible contamination. Students were allowed back in class by the end of first period after no contamination was found, said Kathryn Reith, Lake Washington School District spokeswoman. The rock was discovered after a bus driver overheard the boy telling friends he had a uranium rock with him. The driver reported it to school officials, who notified the Fire Department, Reith said. The Fire Department ordered the school to be evacuated, she said. High-school officials intercepted the boy and confiscated the rock, which he had in a wooden box, and a Geiger counter, Reith said. Fire officials checked the rock and found it to have a low level of radiation, Reith said. They also checked the bus and the portable classroom the rock was taken to and found no radiation or contamination, she said. The boy said the rock was purchased over eBay, Reith said. ______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Oct 6 01:29:56 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Oct 6 01:22:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Shutting down schools because of low level radioactivity References: <200510060102.j9612jfU030334@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <005801c5ca50$22a96b50$36e3a5d8@rock5> I think the foolishness demonstrated by the authorities in shutting down the school in Seattle should be viewed as a golden opportunity the Seattle rockhound community. A few knowledgeable people should attend the next board of education meeting and excoriate them for the stupidity of their actions and demand that the educators learn enough about rocks and minerals so such foolishness will not happen again. A great way to sneak geology and mineralogy in the back door. Rock From everbeek at nac.net Thu Oct 6 04:39:16 2005 From: everbeek at nac.net (earl verbeek) Date: Thu Oct 6 04:39:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any in yourcollection? In-Reply-To: <003401c5c9eb$7e739a10$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <000001c5ca6a$96455f00$c0e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Hi folks, OK, we've been getting various responses about how stupid these school officials were, and how ignorant the general populace is concerning radioactivity. But read that story again. As I understand it, the school officials heard that someone brought a radioactive rock into the school (level of radioactivity then unknown), they called the fire department, and the fire department erred on the side of caution in evacuating the school. Only later, after everyone was safe, was it determined that the level of radioactivity was low. Had that been known at the outset, and the school had still been evacuated, then we could level charges of stupidity and ignorance, but that wasn't the case. The school officials and fire department acted properly -- get everyone to safety, secure the scene, and then gather more information. Now what if it HAD been 300 g of plutonium (again, no way to know that at the outset) and the school officials had made a presumption of "no big deal" and not evacuated the school? Again they'd be charged with stupidity and incompetence. Remember, nobody knew at the outset what the level of radioactivity was, so they went for a "safety first" response, as they are probably trained to do. Don't go calling them stupid for doing their jobs. The only room for criticism here, I think, is that there wasn't a need for a hazmat team to search for contamination in the school after the rock itself was determined to be minimally radioactive and thus harmless. Even with all that, though, the students missed only one period of class. That said, if they charge that kid with anything more than poor judgement, I will agree that the school officials are overreacting. Kids who bring radioactive rocks or mercury to school are probably doing so more out of a sense of curiosity than malice, and don't deserve to be suspended or threatened with jail terms. By the way, I have worked with radioactive minerals for years, both in the field as a geologist and in the lab with mineral collections, so I'm not writing this as an ignorant person with an irrational fear of radioactivity. Handling radioactive materials is just part of the job. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock Currier Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 4:30 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any in yourcollection? ============================================================== Seattle Times -- 10/04/2005 -- Pacific Northwest Section ============================================================== Kirkland School evacuated for uranium rock A Juanita High School student faces disciplinary action after bringing a low-level radioactive rock to school Friday. Officials yesterday hadn't determined what action might be taken. The school was evacuated about 7:50 a.m. while a hazardous-material team investigated for possible contamination. Students were allowed back in class by the end of first period after no contamination was found, said Kathryn Reith, Lake Washington School District spokeswoman. The rock was discovered after a bus driver overheard the boy telling friends he had a uranium rock with him. The driver reported it to school officials, who notified the Fire Department, Reith said. The Fire Department ordered the school to be evacuated, she said. High-school officials intercepted the boy and confiscated the rock, which he had in a wooden box, and a Geiger counter, Reith said. Fire officials checked the rock and found it to have a low level of radiation, Reith said. They also checked the bus and the portable classroom the rock was taken to and found no radiation or contamination, she said. The boy said the rock was purchased over eBay, Reith said. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From freakingcat at hotmail.com Thu Oct 6 07:59:41 2005 From: freakingcat at hotmail.com (Arthur Birago) Date: Thu Oct 6 08:00:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] paraiba blue apatite Message-ID: Hi fellow rockhounds! I am looking for a source for rough paraiba blue apatite in top quality which should cut 3 ct plus eyeclean pieces. I am also looking for a supply of a big quantity of amethyst, in very dark color, eyeclean for pieces around 5 to 10 cts to be cut. The color in the finished gems should change from a dark purple to a bright pink (color shift) Can anyone help? thanks arthur --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Oct 6 08:07:03 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Oct 6 08:07:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any inyourcollection? In-Reply-To: <000001c5ca6a$96455f00$c0e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: Quite true, Earl. Have you ever heard of "radioactive Peter"? You may have since he was (maybe still is) a member of the FMS. Peter collects (among others) uranium minerals such as uraninite, thorianite, becquerelite... "An sich" not really a problem. If you're well-informed about the hazards and obey some basic rules, you can keep a small collection of those at home. Peter, however, kept his collection of primary uranium minerals in cardboard boxes under his bed. I currently have a sealed lead box in my hobby room. It belongs to a friend who asked me to do a photo shoot of his Musonoi (Kolwezi, Katanga/Congo) collection. I'll air my room at regular intervals and I won't eat or drink or smoke while I'm at it. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens earl verbeek Verzonden: donderdag 6 oktober 2005 13:39 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any inyourcollection? Hi folks, OK, we've been getting various responses about how stupid these school officials were, and how ignorant the general populace is concerning radioactivity. But read that story again. As I understand it, the school officials heard that someone brought a radioactive rock into the school (level of radioactivity then unknown), they called the fire department, and the fire department erred on the side of caution in evacuating the school. Only later, after everyone was safe, was it determined that the level of radioactivity was low. Had that been known at the outset, and the school had still been evacuated, then we could level charges of stupidity and ignorance, but that wasn't the case. The school officials and fire department acted properly -- get everyone to safety, secure the scene, and then gather more information. Now what if it HAD been 300 g of plutonium (again, no way to know that at the outset) and the school officials had made a presumption of "no big deal" and not evacuated the school? Again they'd be charged with stupidity and incompetence. Remember, nobody knew at the outset what the level of radioactivity was, so they went for a "safety first" response, as they are probably trained to do. Don't go calling them stupid for doing their jobs. The only room for criticism here, I think, is that there wasn't a need for a hazmat team to search for contamination in the school after the rock itself was determined to be minimally radioactive and thus harmless. Even with all that, though, the students missed only one period of class. That said, if they charge that kid with anything more than poor judgement, I will agree that the school officials are overreacting. Kids who bring radioactive rocks or mercury to school are probably doing so more out of a sense of curiosity than malice, and don't deserve to be suspended or threatened with jail terms. By the way, I have worked with radioactive minerals for years, both in the field as a geologist and in the lab with mineral collections, so I'm not writing this as an ignorant person with an irrational fear of radioactivity. Handling radioactive materials is just part of the job. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock Currier Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 4:30 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any in yourcollection? ============================================================== Seattle Times -- 10/04/2005 -- Pacific Northwest Section ============================================================== Kirkland School evacuated for uranium rock A Juanita High School student faces disciplinary action after bringing a low-level radioactive rock to school Friday. Officials yesterday hadn't determined what action might be taken. The school was evacuated about 7:50 a.m. while a hazardous-material team investigated for possible contamination. Students were allowed back in class by the end of first period after no contamination was found, said Kathryn Reith, Lake Washington School District spokeswoman. The rock was discovered after a bus driver overheard the boy telling friends he had a uranium rock with him. The driver reported it to school officials, who notified the Fire Department, Reith said. The Fire Department ordered the school to be evacuated, she said. High-school officials intercepted the boy and confiscated the rock, which he had in a wooden box, and a Geiger counter, Reith said. Fire officials checked the rock and found it to have a low level of radiation, Reith said. They also checked the bus and the portable classroom the rock was taken to and found no radiation or contamination, she said. The boy said the rock was purchased over eBay, Reith said. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Oct 6 08:10:24 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Oct 6 08:10:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have anyinyourcollection? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >given the fact that there is Americium in smoke detectors and polonium on the hair tips of a "blow-brush" for lens cleaning... Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Oct 6 08:52:39 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Oct 6 08:52:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials In-Reply-To: <050201c5ca2a$28bf4cb0$5f87633f@marilyn> Message-ID: I don't think that compiling a list of dangerous minerals would help saving lives. A change of attitude towards handling them may. For example: cinnaber is found in various locations where he host rock is soaked with liquid mercury. If you put a specimen of that in your display, the mercurt vapor will seep into your system unnoticed and accumulate. So instead of looking at the "poisonous" mineral only, one should beware of the matrix too. Some textbooks say that beryllium mineals can be detected by their sweet taste... berylium is highly carcinogenic. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Steve & Marilyn Verzonden: donderdag 6 oktober 2005 5:58 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials lets start the looong list: Orpiment, realgar, cinnabar, mercury minerals, Mercury vapor will kill instantly don't let it get hot, lead minerals, cyanide minerals.... By the way uranium minerals (I have lots from my uranium exploration days) are not usually dangerous even the green glass balls until they are concentrated. did I hear rad sources medical sources Oil and gas logging sources etc Whats this about a kid with 300 g of Plutonium? the kids now days take a mercury thermometer and break it in the halls for a day off school. been doing it for years. I have been working with hazardous waste for 15 yr. and now work at the WIPP site the only permitted rad disposal site in the world...only DOE waste though. Be careful out there. Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rik.dillen at skynet.be Thu Oct 6 09:53:20 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Thu Oct 6 09:53:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200510061653.j96GrMB8025048@outmx018.isp.belgacom.be> As you know all I'm one of the most critical members here on safety concerns. But in our actual society paranoia starts to rule our lifes. 1) in as far as I know mercury, subject to normal ambient temperatures, yields only very low levels of gaseous mercury in the air, and would have any effect only after many years of constant exposition. IMO it is ridiculous to take draconic measures for some ml of mercury spilled (which, of course, should be cleaned up, but that job can be done without any protection in let's say ten minutes (with a dedicated absorbent). So the reaction of getting a specialised company that charged 40 000 USD is an unbelievable overreaction of the school, where I would think knowledgeable people should be available. 40 000 USD ??? I would like to see their price justification. 2) the panic reaction for the radio-active rock is pure paranoia as well ; everyone knows (or at least in a school some teachers should) that no natural piece of rock is radio-active enough to evacuate a school. I would agree, of course, that if much dust or so has been spilled the chair or table in question should have been cleaned thoroughly. 3) the big danger of radio-active minerals is not the possession of them (ergo : the radiation), but the ingestion of a) radon gas and b) radio-active dust particles. Once ingested, even a very small particle can sit for years on the same place in the body, causing local radiation damage which can lead to irreversible sickness. so it's much more dangerous to manipulate your specimens than to have them. My opinion : do not let paranoia rule your life - don't be afraid of a drop of mercury, but just clean it up carefully and immediately without any fear - collect only small specimens of radio-active minerals, and keep them well under control - be careful - and most of all : have fun ! Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 5:53 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials I don't think that compiling a list of dangerous minerals would help saving lives. A change of attitude towards handling them may. For example: cinnaber is found in various locations where he host rock is soaked with liquid mercury. If you put a specimen of that in your display, the mercurt vapor will seep into your system unnoticed and accumulate. So instead of looking at the "poisonous" mineral only, one should beware of the matrix too. Some textbooks say that beryllium mineals can be detected by their sweet taste... berylium is highly carcinogenic. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Steve & Marilyn Verzonden: donderdag 6 oktober 2005 5:58 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials lets start the looong list: Orpiment, realgar, cinnabar, mercury minerals, Mercury vapor will kill instantly don't let it get hot, lead minerals, cyanide minerals.... By the way uranium minerals (I have lots from my uranium exploration days) are not usually dangerous even the green glass balls until they are concentrated. did I hear rad sources medical sources Oil and gas logging sources etc Whats this about a kid with 300 g of Plutonium? the kids now days take a mercury thermometer and break it in the halls for a day off school. been doing it for years. I have been working with hazardous waste for 15 yr. and now work at the WIPP site the only permitted rad disposal site in the world...only DOE waste though. Be careful out there. Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Oct 6 09:54:34 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Oct 6 09:54:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in your collection? Message-ID: ROTFL And we used to play with mercury saved from broken thermometers...what fun...cool stuff all right...and it put a real nice shine on old coins...you could make pennies look like dimes...and of course merthiolate or mercuricome was a lasting antibiotic for cuts and scratches...hmmmm...maybe thats (part of) whats wrong with my mind...{:={D} Glenn From: Kreigh Tomaszewski <Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> >In the case of another element gone bad, we recently had a local high >schooler who brought some Mercury to school he found at home and spilled >a dime sized blob in a classroom. The school was evacuated, took two >days for a hazmat team to clean up at a cost of over $40,000, and the >teen was charged with a felony. A plea was finally worked out after it >got to Court, the student apologized for his bad decision, and paid part >of the cleanup costs, so the charges were finally dropped. The poor kid >came real close to going to jail for six years. > >I wonder what the reaction would be if I brought in a chunk of asbestos >for a classroom talk? > >But it does raise the serious question of of what hazardous minerals any >of us might have in our collections (possibly without knowing how >dangerous they are), and what protections we should be taking with them. > >Kreigh > >Rock Currier wrote: > > > > ============================================================== > > Seattle Times -- 10/04/2005 -- Pacific Northwest Section > > ============================================================== > > > > Kirkland > > School evacuated for uranium rock > > > > A Juanita High School student faces disciplinary action after bringing a > > low-level radioactive rock to school Friday. Officials yesterday hadn't > > determined what action might be taken. > > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation - the next best thing to being there! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Oct 6 10:04:39 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Oct 6 10:05:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials References: <200510061653.j96GrMB8025048@outmx018.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <039801c5ca98$33e23670$6602a8c0@remains> don't forget.... DUCK AND COVER!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Dillen" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 10:53 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials > As you know all I'm one of the most critical members here on safety > concerns. > But in our actual society paranoia starts to rule our lifes. From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Oct 6 10:11:07 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Oct 6 10:11:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Shutting down schools because of low levelradioactivity In-Reply-To: <005801c5ca50$22a96b50$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: Not only there in Seattle, but we should get national attention on this one! Any of you out there with a Piled Higher and Deeper (PhD) tacked on for credibility have good connections with the media? This really is a golden opportunity! Glenn From: "Rock Currier" <rockcurrier@cs.com> Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> To: <rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: [Rockhounds] Shutting down schools because of low levelradioactivity Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 01:29:56 -0700 > >I think the foolishness demonstrated by the authorities in shutting down the >school in Seattle should be viewed as a golden opportunity the Seattle >rockhound community. A few knowledgeable people should attend the next board >of education meeting and excoriate them for the stupidity of their actions >and demand that the educators learn enough about rocks and minerals so such >foolishness will not happen again. A great way to sneak geology and >mineralogy in the back door. > >Rock > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Oct 6 10:23:09 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Oct 6 10:23:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in your collection? Message-ID: <100620051723.14853.43455D7C000A158000003A05216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Interesting (the whole story & followups), and what you said, Jeanette, I've never seen or heard of the "green uranium marbles" that you mention. I do, however, have a chunk (somewhere, buried among my "old rocks", must be another piece or two), of yellow-green uranium-bearing glass, that I bought years ago from a now-vanished I think, rock shop in Deming, NM. (Earl V., did you buy a piece too, I think you may have been with me when I got it?) This is a really cool "rock" and I keep it in my office, it's one of the first things people often ask about. Its radioactivity is just barely detectable above background, but it does fluoresce very brilliantly, in fact, even with fluorescent room lights indoors, you can see the fluorescence in a lit room, the top side of the glass toward the lights appears more of a greenish color, while the bottom, just colored by absorption of light, is more of a pure yellow. I've always wondered exactly what this type of glass was made & used for--whether or for ornametal glassware, or, what? (I thought that somewhere I'd once heard that some type of uranium-bearing glass was used in some special kind of laboratory glassware or glass seals, does anyone know if that was so?) And, I might as well repeat (in short form) the note I sent to Rock C. the other day after his original post, of all things in the world, no kidding, just the week before reading this, I myself had loaned to a teacher to take to a school--heaven help us, you guessed it, a Geiger counter and a couple of (slightly to moderately) radioactive mineral samples (including my uranium-bearing glass). I had the specimens (nothing excessively friable) in zip-lock plastic bags. I have the samples back now, and I'm VERY pleased to report that it was not in Kirkland, WA, and no one, including me, was arrested, that I know of. cheers to all, Pete -------------- Original message from "Jeanette Wimpee" : -------------- > Sssshhhhh........ > I still have a small blob of mercury I collected from broken thermometers > when I was a kid (at least 45 years ago). After dropping it several times > plus coating dimes with it, it's only half what I used to have. I guess I'll > have to will it to one of my rockhounding grandchildren with the appropriate > cautions. I also have some of the Uranium marbles that fluoresces green, > maybe I better NOT give the kids one of those, huh? > Jeanette > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Oct 6 10:30:22 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Oct 6 10:30:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Shutting down schools because of low levelradioactivity Message-ID: <100620051730.23774.43455F2D0009572600005CDE216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Some years ago (5? 10?) a friend from NJ sent me a newspaper clipping about an almost identical incident there, not something brought in to school, but a teacher who found some slightly radioactive rocks among those in an old cabinet with rock/mineral specimens, and they likewise evacuated the whole school, sent in the Hazmat team in space suits, etc., and it turned out to be nothing more than smidges of autunite (or, whatever) on rock samples. Pete -------------- Original message from "Glenn Wimpee" : -------------- > Not only there in Seattle, but we should get national attention on this one! > > Any of you out there with a Piled Higher and Deeper (PhD) tacked on for > credibility have good connections with the media? > This really is a golden opportunity! > > > > > Glenn > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From libawc at emory.edu Thu Oct 6 10:37:21 2005 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita Westlake) Date: Thu Oct 6 10:37:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in yourcollection? In-Reply-To: <100620051723.14853.43455D7C000A158000003A05216046664807059C0A9 D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <019801c5ca9c$9e56ba40$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> I have a piece of that yellow-green uranium glass too. I was told it was manufactured in Detroit (?) and used to make gear-shift knobs. Of all the remarkable minerals, fossils and meteorites I have in my collection, this one piece is remembered by almost everyone who visits. Go figure. Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 12:23 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in yourcollection? Interesting (the whole story & followups), and what you said, Jeanette, I've never seen or heard of the "green uranium marbles" that you mention. I do, however, have a chunk (somewhere, buried among my "old rocks", must be another piece or two), of yellow-green uranium-bearing glass, that I bought years ago from a now-vanished I think, rock shop in Deming, NM. (Earl V., did you buy a piece too, I think you may have been with me when I got it?) This is a really cool "rock" and I keep it in my office, it's one of the first things people often ask about. Its radioactivity is just barely detectable above background, but it does fluoresce very brilliantly, in fact, even with fluorescent room lights indoors, you can see the fluorescence in a lit room, the top side of the glass toward the lights appears more of a greenish color, while the bottom, just colored by absorption of light, is more of a pure yellow. I've always wondered exactly what this type of glass was made & used f! or--whether or for ornametal glassware, or, what? (I thought that somewhere I'd once heard that some type of uranium-bearing glass was used in some special kind of laboratory glassware or glass seals, does anyone know if that was so?) And, I might as well repeat (in short form) the note I sent to Rock C. the other day after his original post, of all things in the world, no kidding, just the week before reading this, I myself had loaned to a teacher to take to a school--heaven help us, you guessed it, a Geiger counter and a couple of (slightly to moderately) radioactive mineral samples (including my uranium-bearing glass). I had the specimens (nothing excessively friable) in zip-lock plastic bags. I have the samples back now, and I'm VERY pleased to report that it was not in Kirkland, WA, and no one, including me, was arrested, that I know of. cheers to all, Pete -------------- Original message from "Jeanette Wimpee" : -------------- > Sssshhhhh........ > I still have a small blob of mercury I collected from broken thermometers > when I was a kid (at least 45 years ago). After dropping it several times > plus coating dimes with it, it's only half what I used to have. I guess I'll > have to will it to one of my rockhounding grandchildren with the appropriate > cautions. I also have some of the Uranium marbles that fluoresces green, > maybe I better NOT give the kids one of those, huh? > Jeanette > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Oct 6 11:06:37 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Oct 6 11:06:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials In-Reply-To: <200510061653.j96GrMB8025048@outmx018.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: Hi Rik, your wrote >1) in as far as I know mercury, subject to normal ambient temperatures, yields only very low levels of gaseous mercury >in the air, and would have any effect only after many years of constant exposition. IMO it is ridiculous to take >draconic measures for some ml of mercury spilled Just for once, I disagree (strongly) Hghas an incredibly high vapor pressure... it evaporates VERY quickly (no hydrogen bridges like water) One drop of mercury will rapidly fill a room with dangerously high vapour levels. You can see the vapor easily if you put a drop of Hg between a SW-uv lamp and a fluorescent screen. The vapor absorbs the UV and you can see the actual vapor trail as a dark shadow. It's really dramatic and a very persuasive argument in any discussion about Hg. Cheers Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Oct 6 11:11:33 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Oct 6 11:11:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in yourcollection? In-Reply-To: <100620051723.14853.43455D7C000A158000003A05216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: It's called "Vaseline glass". Glass colored by UO2 was very popular in Bohemia and Cornwall. Radioactivity is so low that you cannot distinguish it from the background radiation with normal tools... Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net Verzonden: donderdag 6 oktober 2005 19:23 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in yourcollection? Interesting (the whole story & followups), and what you said, Jeanette, I've never seen or heard of the "green uranium marbles" that you mention. I do, however, have a chunk (somewhere, buried among my "old rocks", must be another piece or two), of yellow-green uranium-bearing glass, that I bought years ago from a now-vanished I think, rock shop in Deming, NM. (Earl V., did you buy a piece too, I think you may have been with me when I got it?) This is a really cool "rock" and I keep it in my office, it's one of the first things people often ask about. Its radioactivity is just barely detectable above background, but it does fluoresce very brilliantly, in fact, even with fluorescent room lights indoors, you can see the fluorescence in a lit room, the top side of the glass toward the lights appears more of a greenish color, while the bottom, just colored by absorption of light, is more of a pure yellow. I've always wondered exactly what this type of glass was made & used f! or--whether or for ornametal glassware, or, what? (I thought that somewhere I'd once heard that some type of uranium-bearing glass was used in some special kind of laboratory glassware or glass seals, does anyone know if that was so?) And, I might as well repeat (in short form) the note I sent to Rock C. the other day after his original post, of all things in the world, no kidding, just the week before reading this, I myself had loaned to a teacher to take to a school--heaven help us, you guessed it, a Geiger counter and a couple of (slightly to moderately) radioactive mineral samples (including my uranium-bearing glass). I had the specimens (nothing excessively friable) in zip-lock plastic bags. I have the samples back now, and I'm VERY pleased to report that it was not in Kirkland, WA, and no one, including me, was arrested, that I know of. cheers to all, Pete -------------- Original message from "Jeanette Wimpee" : -------------- > Sssshhhhh........ > I still have a small blob of mercury I collected from broken thermometers > when I was a kid (at least 45 years ago). After dropping it several times > plus coating dimes with it, it's only half what I used to have. I guess I'll > have to will it to one of my rockhounding grandchildren with the appropriate > cautions. I also have some of the Uranium marbles that fluoresces green, > maybe I better NOT give the kids one of those, huh? > Jeanette > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From everbeek at nac.net Thu Oct 6 11:16:11 2005 From: everbeek at nac.net (earl verbeek) Date: Thu Oct 6 11:16:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Shutting down schools because of lowlevelradioactivity In-Reply-To: <100620051730.23774.43455F2D0009572600005CDE216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <001001c5caa2$08ff02d0$bae4a5ce@D3JM7W21> I remember that story -- and if memory serves, that WAS an example of rather ridiculous overreaction. If I can find the newspaper clipping I'll post details, but it was a while back. This is where Rock's criticisms come fully into play: here you have a science teacher discovering some slightly radioactive rocks. You'd think the teacher would know that a little low-level chatter from a Geiger counter does not signify anything dangerous, and if the teacher didn't know, the hazmat team sure should have. In this case the level of radioactivity was known BEFOREHAND, as was the nature of the rock and its precise location, yet still the guys in the moon suits showed up, and the school was needlessly evacuated. We are still rolling our eyes at that one. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 1:30 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Shutting down schools because of lowlevelradioactivity Some years ago (5? 10?) a friend from NJ sent me a newspaper clipping about an almost identical incident there, not something brought in to school, but a teacher who found some slightly radioactive rocks among those in an old cabinet with rock/mineral specimens, and they likewise evacuated the whole school, sent in the Hazmat team in space suits, etc., and it turned out to be nothing more than smidges of autunite (or, whatever) on rock samples. Pete -------------- Original message from "Glenn Wimpee" : -------------- > Not only there in Seattle, but we should get national attention on this one! > > Any of you out there with a Piled Higher and Deeper (PhD) tacked on for > credibility have good connections with the media? > This really is a golden opportunity! > > > > > Glenn > From everbeek at nac.net Thu Oct 6 11:27:15 2005 From: everbeek at nac.net (earl verbeek) Date: Thu Oct 6 11:27:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c5caa3$94a8d620$bae4a5ce@D3JM7W21> OK Axel and Rik, slug it out . . . and then please clarify the situation for me (us). I thought the bit about the copious mercury vapor fumes and the absorbed UV (photograph in Sterling Gleason's original book) pertained to a specimen that was heated over a flame to vaporize the mercury. Yeah, that'll work just fine, and quickly fill the room with vapor you wouldn't want to breathe. But under normal circumstances, with a puddle of mercury just sitting there, my (limited) experience has been that it . . . just . . . sits . . . there. I've visited old mercury mines in Nevada and saw retorts that had been out of commission for decades, but there are still little drops of mercury all over the ground. From this I would have guessed that mercury under ambient conditions has a low vapor pressure -- but I really don't know one way or the other. Thanks - Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 2:07 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials Hi Rik, your wrote >1) in as far as I know mercury, subject to normal ambient temperatures, yields only very low levels of gaseous mercury >in the air, and would have any effect only after many years of constant exposition. IMO it is ridiculous to take >draconic measures for some ml of mercury spilled Just for once, I disagree (strongly) Hghas an incredibly high vapor pressure... it evaporates VERY quickly (no hydrogen bridges like water) One drop of mercury will rapidly fill a room with dangerously high vapour levels. You can see the vapor easily if you put a drop of Hg between a SW-uv lamp and a fluorescent screen. The vapor absorbs the UV and you can see the actual vapor trail as a dark shadow. It's really dramatic and a very persuasive argument in any discussion about Hg. Cheers Axel _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 6 11:28:51 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Oct 6 11:28:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials In-Reply-To: <200510061653.j96GrMB8025048@outmx018.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <20051006182851.74189.qmail@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ingestion of a low-level radioactive material of low solubility isn't a serious problem. It will pass through the digestive tract and be eliminated before it can do much damage. Inhalation, however, is a problem. What goes into the lungs is likely to be trapped there for a long time. Jim --- Rik Dillen wrote: > 3) the big danger of radio-active minerals is not > the possession of them (ergo : the radiation), but > the ingestion of a) > radon gas and b) radio-active dust particles. Once > ingested, even a very small particle can sit for > years on the same > place in the body, causing local radiation damage > which can lead to irreversible sickness. so it's > much more dangerous > to manipulate your specimens than to have them. > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Thu Oct 6 11:37:49 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 6 11:38:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in yourcollection? Message-ID: <749F794A.4854FDA3.02180873@aol.com> Not so for the old Orange Fiesta Ware (and a few other brands)glazed earthernware plates. These will show strong activity to beta counters. I gave one to a friend who is a radiation officer in a hospital. He uses it as a training tool. I'm told he puts the cookies on the plate, lets folks eat the cookies, then tests it at the "proper time". The message is of course to know what you are dealing with and to not over react. These plates are still available at flea markets and they emit essentially no gamma rays. The beta particles will be pretty much stopped by your skin. But it does make a great demonstration. I'm afraid that in our litigious society in the US, schools are terrified of lawsuits. They over react, so that a failure to respond could never be claimed in court. Remember that all sorts of toxic torts are now won in the US, despite the fact that in many cases there is little or no proof that the supposed offending substance causes the claimed disease. It is unfortunate but the climate is not conducive to reasonableness. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 10/6/2005 2:11:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Axel Emmermann" writes: >It's called "Vaseline glass". ?Glass colored by UO2 was very popular in >Bohemia and Cornwall. > >Radioactivity is so low that you cannot distinguish it from the background >radiation with normal tools... > >Cheers > >Axel > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net >Verzonden: donderdag 6 oktober 2005 19:23 >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in >yourcollection? > > >Interesting (the whole story & followups), and what you said, Jeanette, I've >never seen or heard of the "green uranium marbles" that you mention. ?I do, >however, have a chunk (somewhere, buried among my "old rocks", must be >another piece or two), of yellow-green uranium-bearing glass, that I bought >years ago from a now-vanished I think, rock shop in Deming, NM. (Earl V., >did you buy a piece too, I think you may have been with me when I got it?) >This is a really cool "rock" and I keep it in my office, it's one of the >first things people often ask about. ?Its radioactivity is just barely >detectable above background, but it does fluoresce very brilliantly, in >fact, even with fluorescent room lights indoors, you can see the >fluorescence in a lit room, the top side of the glass toward the lights >appears more of a greenish color, while the bottom, just colored by >absorption of light, is more of a pure yellow. ?I've always wondered exactly >what this type of glass was made & used f! > or--whether or for ornametal glassware, or, what? ?(I thought that >somewhere I'd once heard that some type of uranium-bearing glass was used in >some special kind of laboratory glassware or glass seals, does anyone know >if that was so?) > >And, I might as well repeat (in short form) the note I sent to Rock C. the >other day after his original post, of all things in the world, no kidding, >just the week before reading this, I myself had loaned to a teacher to take >to a school--heaven help us, you guessed it, a Geiger counter and a couple >of (slightly to moderately) radioactive mineral samples (including my >uranium-bearing glass). ?I had the specimens (nothing excessively friable) >in zip-lock plastic bags. ?I have the samples back now, and I'm VERY pleased >to report that it was not in Kirkland, WA, and no one, including me, was >arrested, that I know of. > >cheers to all, >Pete > >-------------- Original message from "Jeanette Wimpee" >: -------------- > > >> Sssshhhhh........ >> I still have a small blob of mercury I collected from broken thermometers >> when I was a kid (at least 45 years ago). After dropping it several times >> plus coating dimes with it, it's only half what I used to have. I guess >I'll >> have to will it to one of my rockhounding grandchildren with the >appropriate >> cautions. I also have some of the Uranium marbles that fluoresces green, >> maybe I better NOT give the kids one of those, huh? >> Jeanette >> > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > ?text/plain (text body -- kept) > ?text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Thu Oct 6 11:47:09 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Thu Oct 6 11:54:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200510061847.j96IlBu6015473@outmx008.isp.belgacom.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 8:07 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials Hi Rik, your wrote >1) in as far as I know mercury, subject to normal ambient temperatures, yields only very low levels of gaseous mercury >in the air, and would have any effect only after many years of constant exposition. IMO it is ridiculous to take >draconic measures for some ml of mercury spilled Just for once, I disagree (strongly). Hghas an incredibly high vapor pressure... it evaporates VERY quickly (no hydrogen bridges like water) [Rik Dillen] [Rik Dillen] Well... a drop of water dries out after minutes, a drop of mercury after... years. I repeat : IMO it is not necessary to take draconic measures to clean up some ml of spilled mercury. Addition : it is perhaps wise to aerate the place a bit... One drop of mercury will rapidly fill a room with dangerously high vapour levels. You can see the vapor easily if you put a drop of Hg between a SW-uv lamp and a fluorescent screen. The vapor absorbs the UV and you can see the actual vapor trail as a dark shadow. It's really dramatic and a very persuasive argument in any discussion about Hg. [Rik Dillen] [Rik Dillen] Not (completely) correct : it LOOKS dramatic because the detection method is so sensitive. That reminds me of a discussion that I've seen tonight in our TV-news about the fact that they detected in someones blood "18 toxic products". The paranoia that such statements cause is dramatic. The reason they detect nowadays those 18 toxic products is again that detection limits have lowered dramatically. With our double-focusing ICPMS we can detect uranium etc. in bottled mineral water. If someone would publish such data (with concentrations in the ppq-level) everyone would think that mineral water is highly poisonous. [Rik Dillen] On the other hand I'm not saying that mercury is a harmless toy. [Rik Dillen] Grts, Rik From albalmer at att.net Thu Oct 6 12:54:54 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Oct 6 12:51:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4345810E.8060301@att.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Rik, > > your wrote > > >>1) in as far as I know mercury, subject to normal ambient temperatures, > > yields only very low levels of gaseous mercury > >>in the air, and would have any effect only after many years of constant > > exposition. IMO it is ridiculous to take > >>draconic measures for some ml of mercury spilled > > > Just for once, I disagree (strongly) > Hghas an incredibly high vapor pressure... I wouldn't call 0.00185 Torr "incredibly high." > it evaporates VERY quickly No, it doesn't. An open container of mercury will last for years. >(no > hydrogen bridges like water) > One drop of mercury will rapidly fill a room with dangerously high vapour > levels. While mercury vapor is certainly dangerous, a drop won't rapidly fill a room, and the vapor level can't possibly be more than one drop per roomful ;-) Mercury is cause for caution, but not panic. >You can see the vapor easily if you put a drop of Hg between a SW-uv > lamp and a fluorescent screen. The vapor absorbs the UV and you can see the > actual vapor trail as a dark shadow. It's really dramatic and a very > persuasive argument in any discussion about Hg. From tangojuli at yahoo.com Thu Oct 6 13:14:44 2005 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Thu Oct 6 13:14:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] over-reactive responses Message-ID: <20051006201444.76126.qmail@web60814.mail.yahoo.com> Here Here Eric Kern-- you and Kreigh are right on about the overreaction to the mercury show and tell in Seattle. But we've seen what happens with what I tend to think of as the football helmet protectionism--insulate kids from all potential dangers (lets outfit 'em all with foothelmets just in case)--and the impact of this on schools. FEwer school field trips--kids may hurt themselves on the bus, may hurt themselves running in the museum, etc.... Limiting of after school activies, outward bound, etc.... There were, however, a few articles in the press late last year--I remember one in particular from Discover magazine I think on the growing awareness of mercury poisoning from mild exposure. It described a situation where a chemistry teacher/professor dropped a vial of it, and a few months later, she was in a coma and died. The article went on to explore the possibility that our amalgam dental fillings and other minute quantities of mercury may be causal somehow in various birth defects or other health issues. Exposure to a lot of that press might make school officials paranoid in an increasingly litigious environment where they may get sued by parents of the other students that would try to make the case that the school should protect against such exposure (and somehow anticipate this!!!!!) Makes me wonder--like some of the others on the list--about the mercury I played with as a kid--were we ALL fascinated w/ broken thermometers? OR MAYBE *thats* why I'm so weird? Thanks for sharing the article and the discussion. --tina --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From murowchickj at umkc.edu Thu Oct 6 13:32:14 2005 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Thu Oct 6 13:32:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] over-reactive responses In-Reply-To: <20051006201444.76126.qmail@web60814.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Tina and all-- On 10/6/05 3:14 PM, "tango juli" wrote: > > There were, however, a few articles in the press late last year--I remember > one in particular from Discover magazine I think on the growing awareness of > mercury poisoning from mild exposure. It described a situation where a > chemistry teacher/professor dropped a vial of it, and a few months later, she > was in a coma and died. If we're talking about the same incident, it was a researcher at a major university out east (New Jersey?) that was working with organometallic mercury compounds. Those can be extremely nasty/dangerous, even in very small amounts. Despite being careful, she unknowingly spilled a drop on her gloved hand, and the solution quickly went through the glove (not all rubbery gloves are impermeable to all liquids) and was absorbed into her skin. Over the following months, she realized what had happened and documented her own slow death, providing a vivid warning to other researchers. I have respect for liquid mercury as a hazardous material, but organomercury compunds give me the heebee geebies (technical term, there). Even the mercuric nitrate solution I use to stain soluble sulfates is used extremely carefully because the ionic mercury is far more dangerous than zero-valent liquid mercury. I think I'll use this thread in my environmental science class. Stay safe, but don't get silly with paranoia. If you don't know what you're doing, don't mess with mercury. Jim Murowchick From agesilaus at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 15:15:33 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Oct 6 15:15:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials In-Reply-To: <001101c5caa3$94a8d620$bae4a5ce@D3JM7W21> References: <001101c5caa3$94a8d620$bae4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: Elemental mercury has a vapor pressure of .0018 mm which is very low indeed. So I do not believe that a drop will evaporate in any short period of time. Maybe sometime before the end of this geological period. Ethyl ether which really does evaporate quickly has a vapor pressure of 440mm250,000 times higher. Isopropyl Alcohol has a vapor pressure of 40 mm and water is 17mm or about 10,000 times more than mercury. BK On 10/6/05, earl verbeek wrote: > > > OK Axel and Rik, slug it out . . . and then please clarify the situation > for > me (us). I thought the bit about the copious mercury vapor fumes and the > absorbed UV (photograph in Sterling Gleason's original book) pertained to > a > specimen that was heated over a flame to vaporize the mercury. Yeah, > that'll work just fine, and quickly fill the room with vapor you wouldn't > want to breathe. But under normal circumstances, with a puddle of mercury > just sitting there, my (limited) experience has been that it . . . just . > . > . sits . . . there. I've visited old mercury mines in Nevada and saw > retorts that had been out of commission for decades, but there are still > little drops of mercury all over the ground. From this I would have > guessed > that mercury under ambient conditions has a low vapor pressure -- but I > really don't know one way or the other. > > Thanks - Earl > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 2:07 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials > > Hi Rik, > > your wrote > > >1) in as far as I know mercury, subject to normal ambient temperatures, > yields only very low levels of gaseous mercury > >in the air, and would have any effect only after many years of constant > exposition. IMO it is ridiculous to take > >draconic measures for some ml of mercury spilled > > Just for once, I disagree (strongly) > Hghas an incredibly high vapor pressure... it evaporates VERY quickly (no > hydrogen bridges like water) > One drop of mercury will rapidly fill a room with dangerously high vapour > levels. You can see the vapor easily if you put a drop of Hg between a > SW-uv > lamp and a fluorescent screen. The vapor absorbs the UV and you can see > the > actual vapor trail as a dark shadow. It's really dramatic and a very > persuasive argument in any discussion about Hg. > > Cheers > > > Axel > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Oct 6 15:22:52 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Oct 6 15:22:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in yourcollection? References: <100620051723.14853.43455D7C000A158000003A05216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <007e01c5cac4$80183cc0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Yep, they are marbles made from yellow-green uranium bearing glass. Bought em on eBay a couple of years ago, cause GLENN was looking at the "weird and unusual" items in eBay. They came in a cute little apothecary type jar with the little radioactive hazard triangles logo on it. Good conversation piece on the display shelf. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Do you have hazardous minerals in yourcollection? > Interesting (the whole story & followups), and what you said, Jeanette, > I've never seen or heard of the "green uranium marbles" that you mention. > I do, however, have a chunk (somewhere, buried among my "old rocks", must > be another piece or two), of yellow-green uranium-bearing glass, that I > bought years ago from a now-vanished I think, rock shop in Deming, NM. > (Earl V., did you buy a piece too, I think you may have been with me when > I got it?) This is a really cool "rock" and I keep it in my office, it's > one of the first things people often ask about. Its radioactivity is just > barely detectable above background, but it does fluoresce very > brilliantly, in fact, even with fluorescent room lights indoors, you can > see the fluorescence in a lit room, the top side of the glass toward the > lights appears more of a greenish color, while the bottom, just colored by > absorption of light, is more of a pure yellow. I've always wondered > exactly what this type of glass was made & used f! > or--whether or for ornametal glassware, or, what? (I thought that > somewhere I'd once heard that some type of uranium-bearing glass was used > in some special kind of laboratory glassware or glass seals, does anyone > know if that was so?) > > And, I might as well repeat (in short form) the note I sent to Rock C. the > other day after his original post, of all things in the world, no kidding, > just the week before reading this, I myself had loaned to a teacher to > take to a school--heaven help us, you guessed it, a Geiger counter and a > couple of (slightly to moderately) radioactive mineral samples (including > my uranium-bearing glass). I had the specimens (nothing excessively > friable) in zip-lock plastic bags. I have the samples back now, and I'm > VERY pleased to report that it was not in Kirkland, WA, and no one, > including me, was arrested, that I know of. > > cheers to all, > Pete From agesilaus at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 15:30:11 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Oct 6 15:30:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Do you collect Uraneium minerals or have any in yourcollection? In-Reply-To: <000001c5ca6a$96455f00$c0e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> References: <003401c5c9eb$7e739a10$36e3a5d8@rock5> <000001c5ca6a$96455f00$c0e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: Plutonium is not very radioactive, it is an alpha emitter like uranium. Indeed you can hold either in your hand without harm, and it is supposed to be a very odd sensation too. Nothing with a long half life is very radioactive, that falls out of the very definition of radioactivity. Now if someone had a few milligrams of Co-60 or Cs-137 then that would be very dangerous. BK On 10/6/05, earl verbeek wrote: > > Hi folks, > > OK, we've been getting various responses about how stupid these school > officials were, and how ignorant the general populace is concerning > radioactivity. But read that story again. As I understand it, the school > officials heard that someone brought a radioactive rock into the school > (level of radioactivity then unknown), they called the fire department, > and > the fire department erred on the side of caution in evacuating the school. > Only later, after everyone was safe, was it determined that the level of > radioactivity was low. Had that been known at the outset, and the school > had still been evacuated, then we could level charges of stupidity and > ignorance, but that wasn't the case. The school officials and fire > department acted properly -- get everyone to safety, secure the scene, and > then gather more information. > > Now what if it HAD been 300 g of plutonium (again, no way to know that at > the outset) and the school officials had made a presumption of "no big > deal" > and not evacuated the school? Again they'd be charged with stupidity and > incompetence. Remember, nobody knew at the outset what the level of > radioactivity was, so they went for a "safety first" response, as they are > probably trained to do. Don't go calling them stupid for doing their jobs. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Oct 6 15:36:44 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Oct 6 15:36:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nuclear minerals in yourcollection? In-Reply-To: <019801c5ca9c$9e56ba40$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: Nuclear (or nucular, as our nucular engineer ex-president pronounces it) strikes a memory chord. Glenn From: "Anita Westlake" libawc@emory.edu >I have a piece of that yellow-green uranium glass too. I was told it was >manufactured in Detroit (?) and used to make gear-shift knobs. Of all the >remarkable minerals, fossils and meteorites I have in my collection, this >one piece is remembered by almost everyone who visits. Go figure. > >Anita ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Search, shop, and browse smarter using tabs with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Oct 6 15:52:13 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Oct 6 15:52:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nucular minerals in your collection? In-Reply-To: <007e01c5cac4$80183cc0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: The apothecary jar could be leaded glass...Pb + SiO2? Now I really want some of the orange fiesta glass...anyone know what it does in UV? Glenn From: "Jeanette Wimpee" geenet2@mchsi.com   >Yep, they are marbles made from yellow-green uranium bearing glass. >Bought em on eBay a couple of years ago, cause GLENN was looking at >the "weird and unusual" items in eBay. They came in a cute little >apothecary type jar with the little radioactive hazard triangles >logo on it. Good conversation piece on the display shelf. >Jeanette > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ 3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Thu Oct 6 18:10:59 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Thu Oct 6 18:11:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] "uranium glass" Message-ID: <20051007011059.47957.qmail@web34606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: I have a small 9-volt powered geiger counter (probably a scintillation counter, really?) that we used on several pieces of my Mom's glassware, and you can see an increase in the click rate from the "vaseline" glass. Mom grew up on a small farm just outside a mining "camp" in southern WV. Every year the gypsies would come around, and use my grandfather's flat bottom land to set up their faire. This was before machinery rides, more like pony rides, camels, juggling and acrobats, probably, but there were games of "skill and chance", for sure. I'm not sure if they were really the Rom, but the whole family talked about them as if they were straight from central casting (or central Europe)! The prize was almost always "carnival glass", some of which was vaseline glass. I've heard about Fiesta ware of the 30s using uranium-based pigments, but haven't seem it yet - I'd love to have some, really. Mom only had a handful of those old carnival glass pieces, they didn't value them as kids, because they always "won" at the games of skill and chance - they were the landlord's kids, and it was great PR to get along with his kids. So they broke most of it just playing hard with it. One year she took a pink cake platter to the antique show and got $450 for it, and most of it disappeared quickly after that. But she kept the green vaseline glass, and it really does fluoresce brightly - and make the radiation counter click a lot! I'm tickled to have such interesting stuff from my Mom's childhood in the early 1920s coalfields. JR __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From mineral.maertens at att.net Thu Oct 6 18:45:55 2005 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan Maertens) Date: Thu Oct 6 18:46:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] 36" saw? In-Reply-To: <200510061839.j96Id21u003035@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Allison & Wayne Holland, >From the Arrowhead Lapidary Supply Catalog NEW Covington model (excluding freight for 1200 lbs) = $8500, includes blade Diamond Pacific (excluding freight for 2000 lbs) = $15150 excluding blade, excluding 510 crating fee. Johan Maertens mineral dot maertens at att dot net Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite Collectors Association Visit http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Oct 6 19:53:20 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Oct 6 19:50:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure References: <001101c5caa3$94a8d620$bae4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <4345E25F.591@Tomaszewski.net> The vapor pressure of Mercury is unusually low. This makes it ideal for use in manometers. At 25C water has a vapor pressure of about 3.1691 kPa, but Mercury is only 0.2460. Hot Mercury is a very different beast and most vapor pressure tables have a second entry for Mercury above 129C. Don't leave your Mercury containing rocks in sunlight. BTW, Iodine is one of the few common substances that has a lower vapor pressure than Mercury -- it is 0.1889 kPa. So if you spill some Mercury, simply clean it up. Use some clean copper to sponge up the little balls you can't pick up with paper and a small brush. I have to agree with Rik on this one. Kreigh earl verbeek wrote: > > OK Axel and Rik, slug it out . . . and then please clarify the situation for > me (us). I thought the bit about the copious mercury vapor fumes and the > absorbed UV (photograph in Sterling Gleason's original book) pertained to a > specimen that was heated over a flame to vaporize the mercury. Yeah, > that'll work just fine, and quickly fill the room with vapor you wouldn't > want to breathe. But under normal circumstances, with a puddle of mercury > just sitting there, my (limited) experience has been that it . . . just . . > . sits . . . there. I've visited old mercury mines in Nevada and saw > retorts that had been out of commission for decades, but there are still > little drops of mercury all over the ground. From this I would have guessed > that mercury under ambient conditions has a low vapor pressure -- but I > really don't know one way or the other. > > Thanks - Earl > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 2:07 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials > > Hi Rik, > > your wrote > > >1) in as far as I know mercury, subject to normal ambient temperatures, > yields only very low levels of gaseous mercury > >in the air, and would have any effect only after many years of constant > exposition. IMO it is ridiculous to take > >draconic measures for some ml of mercury spilled > > Just for once, I disagree (strongly) > Hghas an incredibly high vapor pressure... it evaporates VERY quickly (no > hydrogen bridges like water) > One drop of mercury will rapidly fill a room with dangerously high vapour > levels. You can see the vapor easily if you put a drop of Hg between a SW-uv > lamp and a fluorescent screen. The vapor absorbs the UV and you can see the > actual vapor trail as a dark shadow. It's really dramatic and a very > persuasive argument in any discussion about Hg. > > Cheers > > Axel From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Oct 6 20:14:37 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Oct 6 20:12:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: <4345E25F.591@Tomaszewski.net> References: <001101c5caa3$94a8d620$bae4a5ce@D3JM7W21> <4345E25F.591@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4345E81D.8000002@verizon.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > The vapor pressure of Mercury is unusually low. This makes it ideal for > use in manometers. At 25C water has a vapor pressure of about 3.1691 > kPa, but Mercury is only 0.2460. Howdy, I hope this is helpful to anyone interested; the following is from the NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards (problem: too big to fit in any pocket!) For elemental mercury, the immediate danger to life and health is 10 milligrams per cubic meter of air. The listed occupational exposure limit is 0.05 milligram per cubic meter of air. (The detailed meaning of these becomes complicated; you can use the numbers to get an idea of what is considered immediately dangerous and dangerous over time). Just in case anyone was wondering or could make use of the info--many of us have mercury-containing specimens, and some might not know it! Don From kahako at verizon.net Thu Oct 6 20:21:05 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Oct 6 20:21:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Fiestaware (was "uranium glass") In-Reply-To: <20051007011059.47957.qmail@web34606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051007011059.47957.qmail@web34606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051006170240.025ecea8@incoming.verizon.net> This website shows old Fiestaware---the orage color was the one with uranium---as well as the Vaseline glass marbles: http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/092/ Aloha, Kitty > ...I've heard about Fiesta >ware of the 30s using uranium-based pigments, but >haven't seem it yet - I'd love to have some, really. > >JR From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Oct 6 22:00:01 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Oct 6 22:02:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200510070502.j975240A013000@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi everyone, Thanks for letting me know that I wasn't the only one having the problem. :-) Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 1:02 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Testing Bob, your e-mail didn't get through (just kidding, but you knew that, right?) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Bob Loeffler Verzonden: zaterdag 1 oktober 2005 17:10 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Testing Is this e-mail getting through? I haven't gotten any e-mails from Rockhounds for a couple days. Bob _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From johnjold at comcast.net Thu Oct 6 22:07:07 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Thu Oct 6 22:07:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is the commercial name for night-light backs Message-ID: <1f8b90c421beea77fc800df438dfbef1@comcast.net> My search has ground to a halt. I have no idea what the correct name or source for night light backs would be. I have an idea for a night-light with a translucent stone glued to it. I played around with Google looking for a source but since I have no idea what to call the item, I got nowhere. Someone out there must know of a source for this type of item. I just need a flat surface to glue the irregular shaped cabochon in front of the light source. Last Fall I asked this group about GPS. I got enough information in one day to greatly improve my search effort. I'm hoping for a similar result here. Thanks in advance. John J From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Thu Oct 6 22:50:40 2005 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Thu Oct 6 22:50:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is the commercial name for night-light backs References: <1f8b90c421beea77fc800df438dfbef1@comcast.net> Message-ID: <007001c5cb03$0d652500$635fe842@Titans> Hi John, Try Yahoo spelling " Nite Lite "....lots of choices. Good luck with a good idea. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Joldersma" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: "John Joldersma" Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 11:07 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] What is the commercial name for night-light backs > My search has ground to a halt. I have no idea what the correct name > or source for night light backs would be. > I have an idea for a night-light with a translucent stone glued to it. I > played around with Google looking > for a source but since I have no idea what to call the item, I got > nowhere. > > Someone out there must know of a source for this type of item. I just > need a flat surface to glue the > irregular shaped cabochon in front of the light source. Last Fall I > asked this group about GPS. > I got enough information in one day to greatly improve my search effort. > I'm hoping for a similar result here. > Thanks in advance. John J > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Oct 6 23:33:32 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Oct 6 23:25:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our constituency of fear. References: <200510070102.j9712f8r005144@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003801c5cb09$0cbc7a30$36e3a5d8@rock5> The sky is falling!! The Sky IS Falling!!! FLEE FlEE!!!! I think that most of us agree that shutting down a school because a kid brings a rock to school is not a reasonable thing to do and the teachers and administration should have handled it differently and need to be trained to handle it differently. I think that most of us agree that spilling a little mercury in a school is not cause for spending $40,000 to clean it up. We can go on and on with similar examples about asbestos, lead paint, silly regulations about silica dust (beach sand is included) etc. etc. The only way we can clean up this mess is to educate the people involved about what the hazards really are and what should be reasonably done about them. I think reasonable educated people can get together and work these things out. However the real problem comes when you have to deal with the people who are not reasonable not educated (don't know the difference between a rock a mineral and a toxic chemical compound and the people who have a financial interest in thumping the drums of fear. These comprise the constituency of fear that must be overcome. (Asbestos removal firms, their relatives and trial lawyers) How do you convince a state legislature, a school board of education that doesn't know the difference between a rock, mineral or toxic chemical compound that a rock a kid takes to school is not a cause for concern. Remember they have at their elbow a lawyer, who also doesn't know the difference, who points out all draconian legal situations that can arise and their personal liability if they do not take immediate and drastic action. All of the cases that have been litigated have had any number of PhD's who have testified for both sides of the case. What do we do about this situation. This is the real and I think more difficult problem. Rock From MCGINNISG at aol.com Thu Oct 6 23:35:04 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 6 23:35:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is the commercial name for night-light backs Message-ID: <193.49ab20ef.30777118@aol.com> Sorry John, but yours idea about night lights or neither new or unique. I had one in my bathroom for about ten years, until my grandchild broke it. The local craft market had someone who sold night lights made out of everything from an agate slab to a tuna can. As of late I think that crafter has moved to Florida but a new crafter is taking their place. The night light, I had, looked like the common variety that you can buy at most any dollar store. The cover had been removed and replaced with a polished agate slab that had a clip glued to it that clipped onto the night light. The person who made them told me that they bought the agate slabs wholesale for 50 cents to a buck from a guy who imported them from brazil. The clips came from some hardware store and the night lights came from some wholesaler for 50 cents each. They were in the lights about a buck and a quarter to 2 bucks each and sold them for $5 to $10 dollars each. Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Thu Oct 6 23:48:40 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu Oct 6 23:48:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our constituency of fear. References: <200510070102.j9712f8r005144@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <003801c5cb09$0cbc7a30$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <001f01c5cb0b$268730c0$6400a8c0@Junior> Read "The Radioactive Boyscout". Teenager that built a breeder reactor in his parent's back shed. Very good read. Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 2:33 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Our constituency of fear. > The sky is falling!! The Sky IS Falling!!! FLEE FlEE!!!! > I think that most of us agree that shutting down a school because a kid From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Oct 7 02:40:48 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Oct 7 02:40:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Fiestaware (was "uranium glass") In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051006170240.025ecea8@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: Absolutely great site, Kitty! Thanks Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox Verzonden: vrijdag 7 oktober 2005 5:21 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Re: Fiestaware (was "uranium glass") This website shows old Fiestaware---the orage color was the one with uranium---as well as the Vaseline glass marbles: http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/092/ Aloha, Kitty > ...I've heard about Fiesta >ware of the 30s using uranium-based pigments, but >haven't seem it yet - I'd love to have some, really. > >JR _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Oct 7 03:24:40 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Oct 7 03:24:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: <4345E25F.591@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: And yes, you're both right about the vapor pressure of mercury. I sprung out of some dark corner of my dusty memory chips. I even found the mix-up: had something to do with osmium tetroxide. That's the one that warrants immediate evacuation after a spill (if I remember correctly this time ;-))) Still, room temperature or not: playing with mercury is dangerous. Slight amounts will be inhaled, accumulate into the body and cause nerve damage. I once acquired a specimen of powdery cinnabar on a porous matrix. In the matrix were small droplets of liquid mercury, just barely visible to the naked eye. Two years later I took the specimen to school. We were learning about metals and "native metals" had come up the day before, so I wanted to show off with an example of native mercury. Much to my surprise there was no more mercury to be found on the specimen (nor in the jousi box where I kept it) It seems that small droplets of Hg don't require a "geological timescale" to evaporate. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: vrijdag 7 oktober 2005 4:53 Aan: everbeek@nac.net; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure The vapor pressure of Mercury is unusually low. This makes it ideal for use in manometers. At 25C water has a vapor pressure of about 3.1691 kPa, but Mercury is only 0.2460. Hot Mercury is a very different beast and most vapor pressure tables have a second entry for Mercury above 129C. Don't leave your Mercury containing rocks in sunlight. BTW, Iodine is one of the few common substances that has a lower vapor pressure than Mercury -- it is 0.1889 kPa. So if you spill some Mercury, simply clean it up. Use some clean copper to sponge up the little balls you can't pick up with paper and a small brush. I have to agree with Rik on this one. Kreigh earl verbeek wrote: > > OK Axel and Rik, slug it out . . . and then please clarify the situation for > me (us). I thought the bit about the copious mercury vapor fumes and the > absorbed UV (photograph in Sterling Gleason's original book) pertained to a > specimen that was heated over a flame to vaporize the mercury. Yeah, > that'll work just fine, and quickly fill the room with vapor you wouldn't > want to breathe. But under normal circumstances, with a puddle of mercury > just sitting there, my (limited) experience has been that it . . . just . . > . sits . . . there. I've visited old mercury mines in Nevada and saw > retorts that had been out of commission for decades, but there are still > little drops of mercury all over the ground. From this I would have guessed > that mercury under ambient conditions has a low vapor pressure -- but I > really don't know one way or the other. > > Thanks - Earl > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 2:07 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials > > Hi Rik, > > your wrote > > >1) in as far as I know mercury, subject to normal ambient temperatures, > yields only very low levels of gaseous mercury > >in the air, and would have any effect only after many years of constant > exposition. IMO it is ridiculous to take > >draconic measures for some ml of mercury spilled > > Just for once, I disagree (strongly) > Hghas an incredibly high vapor pressure... it evaporates VERY quickly (no > hydrogen bridges like water) > One drop of mercury will rapidly fill a room with dangerously high vapour > levels. You can see the vapor easily if you put a drop of Hg between a SW-uv > lamp and a fluorescent screen. The vapor absorbs the UV and you can see the > actual vapor trail as a dark shadow. It's really dramatic and a very > persuasive argument in any discussion about Hg. > > Cheers > > Axel _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jsmall47 at earthlink.net Fri Oct 7 03:36:02 2005 From: jsmall47 at earthlink.net (Jim Small) Date: Fri Oct 7 03:30:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds - holding plutonium in your (naked) hand In-Reply-To: <200510070102.j9712f8m005144@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200510070102.j9712f8m005144@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20051007063036.02533b08@mail.earthlink.net> BK and all - I DON'T THINK SO!!! Even if plutonium were so broadly available in refined form that you might be tempted to hold it in your hand please don't even consider it. It is a deadly poison beyond being radioactive. The "rule of thumb" during the initial creation of the US nuclear program in the Manhattan Project was high amputation if there was any possibility that it may have entered your bloodstream. We're talking a totally different degree of danger than having some mercury metal rolling around. Please don't try this at home. Jim Small Small Wonders Lapidary From rpr at heidelberg.edu Fri Oct 7 06:32:01 2005 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Fri Oct 7 06:32:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is another possible explanation for your disappearing mercury. Mercury has a large thermal coefficient of expansion - that's one reason it was used in thermometers. Mercury in or on a porous or fractured matrix can ooze out of the matrix when relatively warm, and ooze back into the matrix again when relatively cool. Some of the shales around the mercury mine in Idrija, Slovenia, are well-known for this behavior. BTW, I would not recommend heating such a specimen to make the mercury appear, because of the danger of encouraging evaporation and release of the much more toxic vapor. Pete Richards >And yes, you're both right about the vapor pressure of mercury. >I sprung out of some dark corner of my dusty memory chips. I even found the >mix-up: had something to do with osmium tetroxide. That's the one that >warrants immediate evacuation after a spill (if I remember correctly this >time ;-))) > >Still, room temperature or not: playing with mercury is dangerous. Slight >amounts will be inhaled, accumulate into the body and cause nerve damage. > >I once acquired a specimen of powdery cinnabar on a porous matrix. In the >matrix were small droplets of liquid mercury, just barely visible to the >naked eye. Two years later I took the specimen to school. We were learning >about metals and "native metals" had come up the day before, so I wanted to >show off with an example of native mercury. Much to my surprise there was no >more mercury to be found on the specimen (nor in the jousi box where I kept >it) > >It seems that small droplets of Hg don't require a "geological timescale" to >evaporate. > >Cheers > >Axel > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski >Verzonden: vrijdag 7 oktober 2005 4:53 >Aan: everbeek@nac.net; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock >and gem collectors >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor >Pressure > > >The vapor pressure of Mercury is unusually low. This makes it ideal for >use in manometers. At 25C water has a vapor pressure of about 3.1691 >kPa, but Mercury is only 0.2460. > >Hot Mercury is a very different beast and most vapor pressure tables >have a second entry for Mercury above 129C. Don't leave your Mercury >containing rocks in sunlight. > >BTW, Iodine is one of the few common substances that has a lower vapor >pressure than Mercury -- it is 0.1889 kPa. > >So if you spill some Mercury, simply clean it up. Use some clean copper >to sponge up the little balls you can't pick up with paper and a small >brush. I have to agree with Rik on this one. > >Kreigh > > > > >earl verbeek wrote: >> >> OK Axel and Rik, slug it out . . . and then please clarify the situation >for >> me (us). I thought the bit about the copious mercury vapor fumes and the >> absorbed UV (photograph in Sterling Gleason's original book) pertained to >a >> specimen that was heated over a flame to vaporize the mercury. Yeah, >> that'll work just fine, and quickly fill the room with vapor you wouldn't >> want to breathe. But under normal circumstances, with a puddle of mercury >> just sitting there, my (limited) experience has been that it . . . just . >. >> . sits . . . there. I've visited old mercury mines in Nevada and saw >> retorts that had been out of commission for decades, but there are still >> little drops of mercury all over the ground. From this I would have >guessed >> that mercury under ambient conditions has a low vapor pressure -- but I >> really don't know one way or the other. >> >> Thanks - Earl >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann >> Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 2:07 PM >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials > > >> Hi Rik, >> >> your wrote >> >> >1) in as far as I know mercury, subject to normal ambient temperatures, >> yields only very low levels of gaseous mercury >> >in the air, and would have any effect only after many years of constant >> exposition. IMO it is ridiculous to take >> >draconic measures for some ml of mercury spilled >> >> Just for once, I disagree (strongly) >> Hghas an incredibly high vapor pressure... it evaporates VERY quickly (no >> hydrogen bridges like water) >> One drop of mercury will rapidly fill a room with dangerously high vapour >> levels. You can see the vapor easily if you put a drop of Hg between a >SW-uv >> lamp and a fluorescent screen. The vapor absorbs the UV and you can see >the >> actual vapor trail as a dark shadow. It's really dramatic and a very >> persuasive argument in any discussion about Hg. >> >> Cheers >> >> Axel >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Oct 7 07:06:42 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Oct 7 07:06:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: and so we appear to learn the most from our mistakes and misconceptions ;-))) Good explanation, Pete. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens R. Peter Richards Verzonden: vrijdag 7 oktober 2005 15:32 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure There is another possible explanation for your disappearing mercury. Mercury has a large thermal coefficient of expansion - that's one reason it was used in thermometers. Mercury in or on a porous or fractured matrix can ooze out of the matrix when relatively warm, and ooze back into the matrix again when relatively cool. Some of the shales around the mercury mine in Idrija, Slovenia, are well-known for this behavior. BTW, I would not recommend heating such a specimen to make the mercury appear, because of the danger of encouraging evaporation and release of the much more toxic vapor. Pete Richards >And yes, you're both right about the vapor pressure of mercury. >I sprung out of some dark corner of my dusty memory chips. I even found the >mix-up: had something to do with osmium tetroxide. That's the one that >warrants immediate evacuation after a spill (if I remember correctly this >time ;-))) > >Still, room temperature or not: playing with mercury is dangerous. Slight >amounts will be inhaled, accumulate into the body and cause nerve damage. > >I once acquired a specimen of powdery cinnabar on a porous matrix. In the >matrix were small droplets of liquid mercury, just barely visible to the >naked eye. Two years later I took the specimen to school. We were learning >about metals and "native metals" had come up the day before, so I wanted to >show off with an example of native mercury. Much to my surprise there was no >more mercury to be found on the specimen (nor in the jousi box where I kept >it) > >It seems that small droplets of Hg don't require a "geological timescale" to >evaporate. > >Cheers > >Axel > > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski >Verzonden: vrijdag 7 oktober 2005 4:53 >Aan: everbeek@nac.net; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock >and gem collectors >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor >Pressure > > >The vapor pressure of Mercury is unusually low. This makes it ideal for >use in manometers. At 25C water has a vapor pressure of about 3.1691 >kPa, but Mercury is only 0.2460. > >Hot Mercury is a very different beast and most vapor pressure tables >have a second entry for Mercury above 129C. Don't leave your Mercury >containing rocks in sunlight. > >BTW, Iodine is one of the few common substances that has a lower vapor >pressure than Mercury -- it is 0.1889 kPa. > >So if you spill some Mercury, simply clean it up. Use some clean copper >to sponge up the little balls you can't pick up with paper and a small >brush. I have to agree with Rik on this one. > >Kreigh > > > > >earl verbeek wrote: >> >> OK Axel and Rik, slug it out . . . and then please clarify the situation >for >> me (us). I thought the bit about the copious mercury vapor fumes and the >> absorbed UV (photograph in Sterling Gleason's original book) pertained to >a >> specimen that was heated over a flame to vaporize the mercury. Yeah, >> that'll work just fine, and quickly fill the room with vapor you wouldn't >> want to breathe. But under normal circumstances, with a puddle of mercury >> just sitting there, my (limited) experience has been that it . . . just . >. >> . sits . . . there. I've visited old mercury mines in Nevada and saw >> retorts that had been out of commission for decades, but there are still >> little drops of mercury all over the ground. From this I would have >guessed >> that mercury under ambient conditions has a low vapor pressure -- but I >> really don't know one way or the other. >> >> Thanks - Earl >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann >> Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 2:07 PM >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials > > >> Hi Rik, >> >> your wrote >> >> >1) in as far as I know mercury, subject to normal ambient temperatures, >> yields only very low levels of gaseous mercury >> >in the air, and would have any effect only after many years of constant >> exposition. IMO it is ridiculous to take >> >draconic measures for some ml of mercury spilled >> >> Just for once, I disagree (strongly) >> Hghas an incredibly high vapor pressure... it evaporates VERY quickly (no >> hydrogen bridges like water) >> One drop of mercury will rapidly fill a room with dangerously high vapour >> levels. You can see the vapor easily if you put a drop of Hg between a >SW-uv >> lamp and a fluorescent screen. The vapor absorbs the UV and you can see >the >> actual vapor trail as a dark shadow. It's really dramatic and a very >> persuasive argument in any discussion about Hg. >> >> Cheers >> >> Axel >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From murowchickj at umkc.edu Fri Oct 7 07:36:50 2005 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (James Murowchick) Date: Fri Oct 7 07:36:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury drop size In-Reply-To: <4345E81D.8000002@verizon.net> Message-ID: On 10/6/05 10:14 PM, "DonH" wrote: (snip) from the > NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards > For elemental mercury, the immediate danger to life and health is 10 > milligrams per cubic meter of air. I did a quick calculation of how big a drop would produce that concentration in a typical room (3x3x2.5m, or about 10 x 10 x 8 ft): A single 3.12mm diameter (about 1/8") drop, if completely evaporated would produce the 10mg Hg/cu meter. Many smaller drops totaling the same volume would evaporate faster than a single drop (more surface area). The long-term exposure limit of 0.05mg/cu m would require evaporation of a 0.87mm diameter (0.034") drop. Years ago we had a drying oven run away (figuratively) and the temperature rose high enough to burst the mercury thermometer that was in the top of the oven, completely vaporizing all the mercury in the large lab thermometer. I never felt good about spending much time in that lab after that. It has since been gutted and remodeled. Jim Murowchick From rik.dillen at skynet.be Fri Oct 7 11:02:21 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Fri Oct 7 11:02:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200510071802.j97I2MlZ019849@outmx022.isp.belgacom.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:25 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure [Rik Dillen] I once acquired a specimen of powdery cinnabar on a porous matrix. In the matrix were small droplets of liquid mercury, just barely visible to the naked eye. Two years later I took the specimen to school. We were learning about metals and "native metals" had come up the day before, so I wanted to show off with an example of native mercury. Much to my surprise there was no more mercury to be found on the specimen (nor in the jousi box where I kept it) It seems that small droplets of Hg don't require a "geological timescale" to evaporate. >>>>> I had once a specimen of massive cinnabar from Almaden, Ciudad Real, Spain (which always contains also some native mercury) and I must admit that after a few years the walls of the transparent JOUSI-box in which I kept the specimen were metallised to some extend. That means that some mercury has evaporated AND was redeposited inside the box. There were, however, no big temperature variations (the specimen has always been kept in the same room), and no difference between the sample and the walls of the box ! For one or another reason the traces of mercury vapour have condensed on the walls. Bear in mind that it seems like a big amount of mercury that evaporated, but you get a mirror-like appearance in such a case even with layers of a few nanometer thick. Greetings, Rik Dillen From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Oct 7 11:08:10 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Oct 7 11:08:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury drop size In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, I had the same feeling about a spill of mercury that landed behind a heavy piece of lab furniture. I had to wait until the next day to move it with the help of some colleagues. The droplets that had been clearly visible with a flashlight on the day before were all gone... As you said: greater surface = greater evaporation. Also: I found some chatter on the net that the toxicity of plutonium may be greatly overrated. I always look at the motive for such 180? turns because life teaches one to be skeptical... We live in times where nuclear power is the only alternative for burning fossil fuel. I think that Up is not to be messed with and that it is of a completely different league of poison than mercury. Anybody can set up a website. Allowing plutonium to infiltrate our food chain may be the last mistake we make. I don't care what http://www.fortfreedom.org/p22.htm says. Personally, I think they are an irresponsible bunch. On the other hand: Mercury is a great French wine from the Macon area. Especially the Chateau Philippe Hardy does very well on a festive table (LOL) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens James Murowchick Verzonden: vrijdag 7 oktober 2005 16:37 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury drop size On 10/6/05 10:14 PM, "DonH" wrote: (snip) from the > NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards > For elemental mercury, the immediate danger to life and health is 10 > milligrams per cubic meter of air. I did a quick calculation of how big a drop would produce that concentration in a typical room (3x3x2.5m, or about 10 x 10 x 8 ft): A single 3.12mm diameter (about 1/8") drop, if completely evaporated would produce the 10mg Hg/cu meter. Many smaller drops totaling the same volume would evaporate faster than a single drop (more surface area). The long-term exposure limit of 0.05mg/cu m would require evaporation of a 0.87mm diameter (0.034") drop. Years ago we had a drying oven run away (figuratively) and the temperature rose high enough to burst the mercury thermometer that was in the top of the oven, completely vaporizing all the mercury in the large lab thermometer. I never felt good about spending much time in that lab after that. It has since been gutted and remodeled. Jim Murowchick _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Oct 7 11:15:56 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Oct 7 11:16:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: <200510071802.j97I2MlZ019849@outmx022.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: Rik, there is a study that proves that people suffer from the manganese in steel and copper pipes that dissolves in water and gets inhaled when... taking a shower! Seems to provoque memory loss and loss of concentration... Can you believe that? Concentrations of manganese that are so small that they hardly can be detected can really cause problems in our bodies. Infenitesimal solutions of kations have a profound impact on our health. We learn more about that every day... Cheerekens Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Rik Dillen Verzonden: vrijdag 7 oktober 2005 20:02 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:25 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure [Rik Dillen] I once acquired a specimen of powdery cinnabar on a porous matrix. In the matrix were small droplets of liquid mercury, just barely visible to the naked eye. Two years later I took the specimen to school. We were learning about metals and "native metals" had come up the day before, so I wanted to show off with an example of native mercury. Much to my surprise there was no more mercury to be found on the specimen (nor in the jousi box where I kept it) It seems that small droplets of Hg don't require a "geological timescale" to evaporate. >>>>> I had once a specimen of massive cinnabar from Almaden, Ciudad Real, Spain (which always contains also some native mercury) and I must admit that after a few years the walls of the transparent JOUSI-box in which I kept the specimen were metallised to some extend. That means that some mercury has evaporated AND was redeposited inside the box. There were, however, no big temperature variations (the specimen has always been kept in the same room), and no difference between the sample and the walls of the box ! For one or another reason the traces of mercury vapour have condensed on the walls. Bear in mind that it seems like a big amount of mercury that evaporated, but you get a mirror-like appearance in such a case even with layers of a few nanometer thick. Greetings, Rik Dillen _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 7 11:49:06 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Oct 7 11:49:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051007184907.92196.qmail@web34310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Curious- According to the label on my bottle of multivitamins, manganese has a minimum daily requirement of 2 milligrams! Jim --- Axel Emmermann wrote: > Rik, > > there is a study that proves that people suffer from > the manganese in steel > and copper pipes that dissolves in water and gets > inhaled when... taking a > shower! Seems to provoque memory loss and loss of > concentration... > Can you believe that? > Concentrations of manganese that are so small that > they hardly can be > detected can really cause problems in our bodies. > Infenitesimal solutions of kations have a profound > impact on our health. We > learn more about that every day... > > Cheerekens > > Axel > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From rik.dillen at skynet.be Fri Oct 7 12:15:54 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Fri Oct 7 12:16:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200510071916.j97JFtve028893@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 8:16 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure Rik, there is a study that proves that people suffer from the manganese in steel and copper pipes that dissolves in water and gets inhaled when... taking a shower! Seems to provoque memory loss and loss of concentration... Can you believe that? >>>>> NO !!! Or rather yes... euh... no... what did you say... ? Ahaa... that's why after almost 35 years of chemistry in the steel industry eventually my memory is in a state of destruction... ;>) Concentrations of manganese that are so small that they hardly can be detected can really cause problems in our bodies. Infinitesimal solutions of kations have a profound impact on our health. We learn more about that every day... >>>>> Most of that kind of studies don't take into account serious statistical methods, and they try to prove something that cannot be proven, because of heterogeneous sampling. Furthermore I don't believe in effects of concentrations that are lower than the natural background concentration in normal body fluids. And last but not least, proving a correlation between such low concentrations (with a very high relative standard deviation) and very vague symptoms is in many (if not most) cases nonsense. I have only one reaction to such things : life is extremely dangerous, because it leads to a certain death. Have a nice week-end... :>)) Stop... before you drink a glass of wine, beware of its trace element contents : it contains uranium, thorium, hafnium, thallium, mercury, cadmium, tin, lead etc. (about 90 or so elements, it's only a question of detection limit of the analytical method). Moreover, it contains e.g. methyllead compounds (I know quite well Prof. Freddy Adams of Antwerp University, who studied speciation of many metal ions in wine from grapes grown in the neighbourhood of big highways in France). Nevertheless... cheers. Greetings, Rik Dillen From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Oct 7 11:25:41 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Oct 7 13:27:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure References: Message-ID: <000d01c5cb6c$8cb05500$6400a8c0@mshome.net> A few years back Julie and I collected at the Kiggins mercury mine near Lake Harriet, OR and hauled out a load of calcite with massive and microcrystalline cinnabar banded through like streaks or splashes of bright red paint. Some of the calcite is felted with quartz, zeolites, opal and pyrite. Neat stuff! After cleaning these specimens I had them on the back porch railing to dry in the hot sun. I checked them a few hours later and found them sweating small beads of mercury. They are now stored in sealed Rubbermaid boxes in the coolest part of the shop. Also, I find it interesting how many on this list used to coat pennies with mercury as a kid. And how many of us remember Gilberts Chemistry Sets? John From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Oct 7 13:38:41 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Oct 7 13:38:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese In-Reply-To: <20051007184907.92196.qmail@web34310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >Curious- According to the label on my bottle of >multivitamins, manganese has a minimum daily >requirement of 2 milligrams! Do you inhale your vitamins? Some things are completely harmless when ingested but can kill you when inhaled or injected. Curare is a pretty good example. It's actually good medicine against stomach aches ;-))) Axel __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Oct 7 13:44:39 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Oct 7 13:44:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: <200510071916.j97JFtve028893@outmx015.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: >>>>> Most of that kind of studies don't take into account serious statistical methods, and they try to prove something >>>>that cannot be proven, because of heterogeneous sampling. Furthermore I don't believe in effects of concentrations that ><>>are lower than the natural background concentration in normal body fluids. And last but not least, proving a >>>correlation >>>between such low concentrations (with a very high relative standard deviation) and very vague symptoms is in many (if >>>>not most) cases nonsense. and thus the Roman empire perished... their elite demented because of the lead that lined their famous drinking water system. Civilization kills too. We have dangerously high levels of bisphenol-alpha, which causes a.o. breast cancer, in our blood because we find it hygienic to store our beverages in plastic bottles. Cheerio Axel From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Fri Oct 7 14:23:16 2005 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Fri Oct 7 14:23:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese References: Message-ID: <002401c5cb85$55170cb0$a9defea9@TOSHIBA> It seams that in medieval times doctors prescribed liquid mercury as a bewerage with a positive efect on the health. ??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 9:38 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese > >Curious- According to the label on my bottle of >>multivitamins, manganese has a minimum daily >>requirement of 2 milligrams! > > Do you inhale your vitamins? > > Some things are completely harmless when ingested but can kill you when > inhaled or injected. Curare is a pretty good example. It's actually good > medicine against stomach aches ;-))) > > Axel > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Fri Oct 7 14:41:41 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Oct 7 14:41:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese In-Reply-To: <002401c5cb85$55170cb0$a9defea9@TOSHIBA> References: <002401c5cb85$55170cb0$a9defea9@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051007113122.025b0910@incoming.verizon.net> At 11:23 AM 10/7/2005, Armando Afonso wrote: It seems that in medieval times doctors prescribed liquid mercury as a beverage with a positive effect on the health. *************** Following is a quote from the website I mentioned earlier ( http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Elements/092/ ) Unfortunately the writer does not say what year the booklet was written or the "Revigator" was in popular use. Apparently they can still be found for sale on eBay. Aloha, Kitty "A Most Amazing Booklet about Revigators. This book is just incredible. I can't even begin to describe how hilarious it is in places, knowing what we know now about radioactivity. The beautiful thing is, it could have been written today, if you just substitute your favorite current alternative health fad for the substance they are extolling (known in the book as "niton" or "emanation"). All the same arguments, proofs, and fundamental confusions about how the world works are there, right down to the claim that it can't possibly be harmful because it's not a drug or medicine, it's all natural. The "it" being radon gas, which is now known to be one of the most powerfully toxic substances in the world, so toxic that even barely measurable concentrations from natural sources are a problem in many people's houses. This 20-page booklet is an ad for a product called the "Revigator", which charged your drinking water with radon gas, in case you were missing the benefits of this all-natural substance in your daily life. And it really did emit radon: The product was, unfortunately for its users, not a fraud. It was lined with carnotite (Hydrated Potassium Uranyl Vanadate), a uranium ore which, like any uranium or thorium ore, emits radon gas at a steady rate as a decay product of the uranium. " --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Oct 7 16:47:23 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Oct 7 16:47:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: <000d01c5cb6c$8cb05500$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: Of course I had a Gilbert's Chemistry set...begged and pleaded for it one Christmas while I was still too young to earn enough money to buy it myself...and with my dad's help, i mixed up some cool stuff...some of it was mildly explosive! WOW!!! FUNNNN! Oh what that could have led to...maybe a bit NIO3...and later a sulfur zinc rocket that exploded over the school yard one Saturday...yup...found a way... amazing any of us survived childhood! Glenn From: "John Siebel" <john@pandemoniumgraphics.com> Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 13:25:41 -0500 >A few years back Julie and I collected at the Kiggins mercury mine near Lake >Harriet, OR and hauled out a load of calcite with massive and >microcrystalline cinnabar banded through like streaks or splashes of bright >red paint. Some of the calcite is felted with quartz, zeolites, opal and >pyrite. Neat stuff! After cleaning these specimens I had them on the back >porch railing to dry in the hot sun. I checked them a few hours later and >found them sweating small beads of mercury. They are now stored in sealed >Rubbermaid boxes in the coolest part of the shop. > >Also, I find it interesting how many on this list used to coat pennies with >mercury as a kid. And how many of us remember Gilberts Chemistry Sets? > >John > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation - the next best thing to being there! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From agesilaus at gmail.com Fri Oct 7 17:02:11 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Oct 7 17:02:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds - holding plutonium in your (naked) hand In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20051007063036.02533b08@mail.earthlink.net> References: <200510070102.j9712f8m005144@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20051007063036.02533b08@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Inhaled PU or injected Pu is deadly. There is evidence that ingested Pu or more likely PuO is not all that hazardous. I was referring to the radioactivity in the hand held comment. And apparently plenty of people have held it in there hand since they describe the sensation as quite odd. The alpha particles give your skin the sensation of heat even thos the Pu pit isn't warm. And actually I used to sit on of near a container of Pu and lots of U while waiting for meals. I was within a foot of so of the Pu metal and closer to the larger quantity of U metal. Not to mention for tritium and americium. I'll let you work out what it was. BK On 10/7/05, Jim Small wrote: > > BK and all - > I DON'T THINK SO!!! > Even if plutonium were so broadly available in refined form that you might > be tempted to hold it in your hand please don't even consider it. It is a > deadly poison beyond being radioactive. The "rule of thumb" during the > initial creation of the US nuclear program in the Manhattan Project was > high amputation if there was any possibility that it may have entered your > bloodstream. We're talking a totally different degree of danger than > having > some mercury metal rolling around. > > Please don't try this at home. > > Jim Small > Small Wonders Lapidary > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Fri Oct 7 17:11:42 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Oct 7 17:07:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43470EBE.70203@att.net> Glenn Wimpee wrote: > Of course I had a Gilbert's Chemistry set...begged and pleaded for it one Christmas while I was still too young to earn enough money to buy it myself...and with my dad's help, i mixed up some cool stuff...some of it was mildly explosive! WOW!!! FUNNNN! > > Oh what that could have led to...maybe a bit NIO3...and later a sulfur zinc rocket that exploded over the school yard one Saturday...yup...found a way... > > amazing any of us survived childhood! > Heck, we didn't even need chemicals. Cut a nice, 3 or 4 foot flexible stick off an apple tree, impale a hard green apple on it, take aim at your best buddy, ... In grade school, we actually had a kid knocked cold by a high speed green apple. Mostly, there were just some nasty bruises. From bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 7 17:26:31 2005 From: bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com (Joe Mulvey) Date: Fri Oct 7 17:26:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Kids Collection In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050105095852.04e60db0@mail.aloha.net> Message-ID: <20051008002631.53090.qmail@web33407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Aloha Kitty! We received your package of lava and it is fantastic! Rosey loves it! We are going to line a cigar box with crushed velour and paste volcano info and pictures all over the outside so that she can bring it to show and tell. Thank you so much! Regards, Joe From uvbob at chilitech.net Fri Oct 7 18:05:09 2005 From: uvbob at chilitech.net (Robert McGuire) Date: Fri Oct 7 18:01:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hi group Message-ID: <43471B45.5000304@chilitech.net> Hi Glen and group, Thank goodness for Gilbert and Chemcraft. If it weren't for them, I shudder to think what we might have gotten into. Judging by some of the stuff I see out there now, it is not all good. In 1953 I too began playing with microscopes, building rockets and mixing rocket fuels, building telescopes, photography and collection minerals. I refuse to grow up though I haven't been able to slow down growing old. I was on this group several years ago until my hard drive crashed and list all. Time slips away but I finally got back on. My photography became my occupation but still totally enjoy my other hobbies. My mineral collecting is rather large but have gotten into Fluorescents very bad. That brings me to something that someone in this group may be able to help me with. You have probably all "been there and done that". A gent passed away and after a couple years the wife asked me if I would buy his "ROCKS". I gave her a price based on what she told me and picked them up and paid her. I over paid by a bit but that is not a great concern. About 80% were not labeled, 10% have labels that I feel are correct and 10% of the labeled ones make me wonder. One of the pieces that I am most interested in is a piece of blue calcite. It looks exactly like the stuff we get from New York except it fluoresces a yellow/orange or an orange/yellow depending on who looks at it. The piece I have is about the size of a marble and am looking for a piece the size of a mans fist to put on my rack. ( see http://uvbob.com ) Can anyone recollect where this might be from? Thank you, Bob From kahako at verizon.net Fri Oct 7 18:36:59 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Oct 7 18:37:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Kids Collection In-Reply-To: <20051008002631.53090.qmail@web33407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.0.14.0.20050105095852.04e60db0@mail.aloha.net> <20051008002631.53090.qmail@web33407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051007153546.025afe48@incoming.verizon.net> I'm delighted that you and Rosey liked it! And I'm glad Rosey will share it with her class. Aloha, Kitty At 02:26 PM 10/7/2005, you wrote: >Aloha Kitty! >We received your package of lava and it is fantastic! Rosey >loves it! We are going to line a cigar box with crushed velour >and paste volcano info and pictures all over the outside so that >she can bring it to show and tell. > >Thank you so much! >Regards, >Joe From kahako at verizon.net Fri Oct 7 18:50:42 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Oct 7 18:50:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ooops, sorry. In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051007153546.025afe48@incoming.verizon.net> References: <6.2.0.14.0.20050105095852.04e60db0@mail.aloha.net> <20051008002631.53090.qmail@web33407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20051007153546.025afe48@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051007154757.025d85d8@incoming.verizon.net> Ooops. I apologize for responding to Joe's message without noticing that it came from the List, and I expect Joe is sorry for his mistake too. Aloha, Kitty From hammerron at yahoo.com Fri Oct 7 18:55:41 2005 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Fri Oct 7 18:54:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Agate question Message-ID: <001301c5cbab$67042c20$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> I am wondering if any one has or has seen a type of agate that has red (jasper like) and light blue color. I've put a picture of one of these on the web at http://hammerron.com/minerals/images/min109.jpg Years ago, I could swear I had heard it described as "Greek Agate". I have no idea if this refers to location, color, of something else. Any help is appreciated. -Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Fri Oct 7 19:22:18 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Oct 7 19:22:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury drop size In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051008022802.E4BA5A10FE@marbella.infowest.com> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury drop size >Well, I had the same feeling about a spill of mercury that landed behind a >heavy piece of lab furniture. I had to wait until the next day to move it >with the help of some colleagues. The droplets that had been clearly >visible >with a flashlight on the day before were all gone... >As you said: greater surface = greater evaporation. Actually, mercury can find its way into cracks and pores in such a way that it can never really be gotten out. It will soak into the wood in floors (or anything at all porous, I think) and disappear from view. It will also contaminate metals. In the photographic film processing business, a mercury thermometer broken in one of the tanks on the processor (while incaustionsly checking the temperature or the solution, for instance), will amalgamate with all the seams in the tank, and means that you MUST replace that tank & the solution in it, and the leader or film that happens to be in it; and if you don't get the processor stopped right way it also means replacing everything else from there on down through the processing machine where any of the solution could be carried in, on the film or leader. (Mercury is a very powerful fogger for film.) Margaret On the other hand: Mercury is a great French wine from the Macon area. Especially the Chateau Philippe Hardy does very well on a festive table (LOL) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens James Murowchick Verzonden: vrijdag 7 oktober 2005 16:37 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury drop size On 10/6/05 10:14 PM, "DonH" wrote: (snip) from the > NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards > For elemental mercury, the immediate danger to life and health is 10 > milligrams per cubic meter of air. I did a quick calculation of how big a drop would produce that concentration in a typical room (3x3x2.5m, or about 10 x 10 x 8 ft): A single 3.12mm diameter (about 1/8") drop, if completely evaporated would produce the 10mg Hg/cu meter. Many smaller drops totaling the same volume would evaporate faster than a single drop (more surface area). The long-term exposure limit of 0.05mg/cu m would require evaporation of a 0.87mm diameter (0.034") drop. Years ago we had a drying oven run away (figuratively) and the temperature rose high enough to burst the mercury thermometer that was in the top of the oven, completely vaporizing all the mercury in the large lab thermometer. I never felt good about spending much time in that lab after that. It has since been gutted and remodeled. Jim Murowchick _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Fri Oct 7 19:26:54 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Oct 7 19:26:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese In-Reply-To: <20051007184907.92196.qmail@web34310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20051008023238.491C7A10B4@marbella.infowest.com> >Curious- According to the label on my bottle of >multivitamins, manganese has a minimum daily >requirement of 2 milligrams! >Jim And, I would add, Jim, that we need a tiny bit of selenium in our diet, but that it also is very poisonous -- There are a few plants in nature, such as Princes' plume, and Rattleweed milkvetch, that collect selenium from the soil (using it like other plants use sulfur), and a few mouthfuls of any of these plants will kill a cow within a few hours. Margaret --- Axel Emmermann wrote: > Rik, > > there is a study that proves that people suffer from > the manganese in steel > and copper pipes that dissolves in water and gets > inhaled when... taking a > shower! Seems to provoque memory loss and loss of > concentration... > Can you believe that? > Concentrations of manganese that are so small that > they hardly can be > detected can really cause problems in our bodies. > Infenitesimal solutions of kations have a profound > impact on our health. We > learn more about that every day... > > Cheerekens > > Axel > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Fri Oct 7 19:26:56 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 7 19:27:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nucular minerals in your collection? Message-ID: <19a.3dfd353b.30788870@aol.com> The orange Fiesta ware (also California Ware and Caliente Ware) is a glazed earthenware. It does not fluoresce. When I was a kid in grade school I did a science project with the help of my dentist. We took a couple of pieces of x-ray film and placed coins over them and then a Fiesta plate over that. We developed the films after a few days exposure. They showed the coin outline quite clearly Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 10/6/2005 6:52:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pawpawtiger@hotmail.com writes: The apothecary jar could be leaded glass...Pb + SiO2? Now I really want some of the orange fiesta glass...anyone know what it does in UV? Glenn --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Oct 7 20:02:49 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Oct 7 19:56:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hazardous Minerals -- A Summary, and More Questions Message-ID: <43473550.526@Tomaszewski.net> I think we've established that almost all of us have one to many minerals in our collections that could be considered to be hazardous, or even toxic. I gather from the comments that many to most of us also keep the worst offenders enclosed (in plastic boxes) to minimize any contamination of our environment by dust or released gasses (or radiation). This is an obvious and reasonable precaution. While there is disagreement over how dangerous any specific mineral may be, we seem to agree that there is some risk to keeping a collection. I suspect few (if any) of us could pass a rigorous government safety inspection (I suspect many museums would also fail). I also suspect most of our collections are pretty safe, especially for those we might show them to. There also seems to be agreement that how a specific mineral (or chemical) is introduced into the body has a strong influence on how dangerous it is. In general, external/skin contact is less dangerous than ingestion, and ingestion is less dangerous than inhalation. I think we also have general agreement that the risk is lower than generally believed, assuming knowledge and proper handling. This appears to be a big assumption, and education seems to be a priority. Government risk calculations, and expecially their response to risks, seem to presume a zero tolerance, and therefore overreaction is the norm. My first question is a return to my original question, what specific minerals might be hazardous. We've beat Mercury to death, so my interest is in what else, especially if it might not be obvious. My second question is related. What specific precautions do you take for the hazardous minerals in your collections? It might be as simple as washing your hands after handling one, or something more complex like a special climate controlled ventilated cabinet, or something in-between like storing them in closed plastic boxes. My third question has a much wider scope. Given that our collections represent a hazardous environment, and that most of us live with our collections for a long time, is the life expectancy of a Rockhound longer or shorter than Joe Public (who doesn't keep rocks, and probably doesn't know much about them, if anything)? This last question obviously has multiple parts. What is the effect from living with a collection? What is the effect from the collector having better than average knowledge about minerals (chemistry)? Do collectors (in general) have a genetic predisposition that protects them more than the public? How does the practice of Lapidary influence the risk? What precautions are most effective? Does the hobby of collecting rocks and minerals contribute to the decline of the hobby by prematurely terminating the lives of those collectors, or does the exposure to a wide variety of minerals contribute to longer life? I would still like to get specific answers to the first two questions as I think it would be of help to all. I don't think we can answer the third, but some discussion would be appreciated. I would also appreciate discussion if any of my summary seems to be incorrect. I certainly am not an expert and may have missed many relevant points. My thanks to all you you who have contributed to this discussion, both on and off List. I have certainly learned from it, but there is obviously more that has not been explored. I'm just trying to refocus so we can all dig into it a little deeper. Thanks again! Kreigh From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Oct 7 21:21:05 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Oct 7 21:21:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese In-Reply-To: <20051008023238.491C7A10B4@marbella.infowest.com> Message-ID: Nightshade is a fernlike deadly plant..probably Prince's plume... Glenn From: "Margaret Malm" kadok@infowest.com Curious- According to the label on my bottle of multivitamins, manganese has a minimum daily requirement of 2 milligrams! Jim And, I would add, Jim, that we need a tiny bit of selenium in our diet, but that it also is very poisonous -- There are a few plants in nature, such as Princes' plume, and Rattleweed milkvetch, that collect selenium from the soil (using it like other plants use sulfur), and a few mouthfuls of any of these plants will kill a cow within a few hours. Margaret ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From MCGINNISG at aol.com Fri Oct 7 21:35:02 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 7 21:35:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Agate question Message-ID: <207.b0e7e81.3078a676@aol.com> Agate derives its name from the Greek "Agate??" - meaning happy. The term "Greek Agate" is a very very old term used to describe agates that are suitable for making cameos. Red and white or brown and white agates were the most common to receive the term "Greek Agate". --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Oct 7 22:15:54 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Oct 7 22:15:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hazardous Minerals -- A Summary, and More Questions In-Reply-To: <43473550.526@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Kreigh@tomaszewski.net   Subject: [Rockhounds] Hazardous Minerals -- A Summary, and More Questions I think we've established that almost all of us have one to many minerals in our collections that could be considered to be hazardous, or even toxic. ***There are just way too many too discuss each hazardous mineral indivividually. As Axel noted, even the terriffic plastics we use to keep most of our food and drinks relatively sterile, is "toxic" and a carcinogen. Just living around civilization is extremely dangerous: electromagnetism from power lines; so many fumes (inhaled) from fuel, building materials, cleaning agents, and who knows what; MINERALS!!!! in our drinking water (not to mention other beverages); and anything may be contaminated with deadly to benign stuff. Shucks, one could do better to dig a hole (mine?) and crawl in. ROTFL! {:={D} Glenn I gather from the comments that many to most of us also keep the worst offenders enclosed (in plastic boxes) to minimize any contamination of our environment by dust or released gasses (or radiation). This is an obvious and reasonable precaution. While there is disagreement over how dangerous any specific mineral may be, we seem to agree that there is some risk to keeping a collection. I suspect few (if any) of us could pass a rigorous government safety inspection (I suspect many museums would also fail). I also suspect most of our collections are pretty safe, especially for those we might show them to. There also seems to be agreement that how a specific mineral (or chemical) is introduced into the body has a strong influence on how dangerous it is. In general, external/skin contact is less dangerous than ingestion, and ingestion is less dangerous than inhalation. I think we also have general agreement that the risk is lower than generally believed, assuming knowledge and proper handling. This appears to be a big assumption, and education seems to be a priority. Government risk calculations, and expecially their response to risks, seem to presume a zero tolerance, and therefore overreaction is the norm. ***Absolutely!!! My first question is a return to my original question, what specific minerals might be hazardous. We've beat Mercury to death, so my interest is in what else, especially if it might not be obvious. ***You ever lick a specimen to see it wet? My second question is related. What specific precautions do you take for the hazardous minerals in your collections? It might be as simple as washing your hands after handling one, or something more complex like a special climate controlled ventilated cabinet, or something in-between like storing them in closed plastic boxes. ***For those obviously holding higher than "normal" danger, store in a less used room. Hand washing should be done after almost all activities, for germs if nothing else. My third question has a much wider scope. Given that our collections represent a hazardous environment, and that most of us live with our collections for a long time, is the life expectancy of a Rockhound longer or shorter than Joe Public (who doesn't keep rocks, and probably doesn't know much about them, if anything)? ***See above...everybody lives amongst hazardous materials of varying degrees...to try to get a handle on Rockhound vs "average" life expectancy is just one of those statistics virtually impossible to attain. What would we use as a control sample? This last question obviously has multiple parts. What is the effect from living with a collection? What is the effect from the collector having better than average knowledge about minerals (chemistry)? Do collectors (in general) have a genetic predisposition that protects them more than the public? How does the practice of Lapidary influence the risk? What precautions are most effective? Does the hobby of collecting rocks and minerals contribute to the decline of the hobby by prematurely terminating the lives of those collectors, or does the exposure to a wide variety of minerals contribute to longer life? ***Many rockhounds have already lived to an overripe age... I would still like to get specific answers to the first two questions as I think it would be of help to all. I don't think we can answer the third, but some discussion would be appreciated. I would also appreciate discussion if any of my summary seems to be incorrect. I certainly am not an expert and may have missed many relevant points. ***Hey Kreigh, good luck on specifics, but you certainly have provided food for thought! My thanks to all you you who have contributed to this discussion, both on and off List. I have certainly learned from it, but there is obviously more that has not been explored. I'm just trying to refocus so we can all dig into it a little deeper. Thanks again! Kreigh ****Focus, Focus, Focus.........HMMMM...must be the Mercury wine! Obviously I am really enjoying this thought provoking post, and I look forward to lots of responses and opinions from lots of ya'll! Glenn {:+{D} ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From kahako at verizon.net Fri Oct 7 23:08:03 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Oct 7 23:08:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hazardous Minerals -- A Summary, and More Questions In-Reply-To: <43473550.526@Tomaszewski.net> References: <43473550.526@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051007193414.043b7850@incoming.verizon.net> Thank you, Kreigh, for your excellent summary and thought-provoking questions. I'd like to add that children should be brought into our thoughtful consideration. This whole discussion started with a news story about how authorities reacted when a kid took a possibly hazardous rock to school. The implications of kids on this topic range from their natural curiosity and enthusiasm for things that are strange and possibly dangerous, and how we can use these traits to encourage scientific inquiry and a life-long hobby, to how we should take care that children are not harmed by the specimens in our homes. For example, Bill and I have a few mildly radioactive specimens which are in closed plastic boxes that are kept in a closed glass cabinet. When children visit, we encourage them to enjoy our collection and watch to be sure they don't get into any mischief with them. But I have to admit that we have not set out instructions anywhere, not even in our wills, to ensure that when we are not around, our hazardous minerals are treated properly---by adults, much less children. Aloha, Kitty At 05:02 PM 10/7/2005, Kreigh wrote: > ...there is some risk to keeping a collection. I >suspect few (if any) of us could pass a rigorous government safety >inspection >This last question obviously has multiple parts. What is the effect from >living with a collection? From efkern at earthlink.net Fri Oct 7 23:33:19 2005 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Fri Oct 7 23:33:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Update on the Seattle Kid and his uranium Message-ID: <001001c5cbd2$2cf82dc0$05fcb3d1@TheBlackAdder> From: http://www.kingcountyjournal.com Uranium sparks unneeded concern at Juanita High: School evacuated after student brings rock that turns out to be harmless 2005-10-01 by Chris Winters Journal Reporter KIRKLAND -- A radioactive rock about twice the size of a quarter caused more disruption at Juanita High School on Friday than the duck-and-cover drills of the Cold War era. The staff and any of the 1,010 students at Juanita who were in the building before the start of the first period class were evacuated Friday morning after a boy carried the grayish-green rock wrapped in plastic and a Geiger counter in a homemade plywood box onto a bus shortly before the 7:50 a.m. bell. A fire department hazardous materials team showed up quickly. The team seized the rock after determining it was harmless and that nothing or no one had become contaminated. ``FiestaWare from the '50s is more radioactive than this is,'' said Bellevue Fire Lt. John Fox, who was on the hazmat team. As to where the boy got the rock: ``On eBay,'' according to Catherine Rice, spokeswoman for the Lake Washington School District. ``That's what he has reported.'' Not knowing the nature of what they were dealing with, fire officials ordered the evacuation after the bus driver overheard the boy talking to some friends, saying he had a piece of uranium in a box. ``She thought, `Hmm, this sounds like it could be serious,''' and reported the student to the school administration, said Rice, the school district spokeswoman. The student was found inside the building before arriving at his first-period class, Rice said. He was isolated in a classroom while the rest of the school was evacuated until the hazmat team arrived. The all-clear was then given and classes resumed just before the end of first period. Everyone who saw the rock, including the boy and the bus driver, and anything it came into contact with, including the classroom, the bus, the box and the plastic it was wrapped in were tested by the hazmat team and gave off absolutely no radiation, said Kirkland Fire Deputy Chief Jack Henderson. The rock itself, when unwrapped, gave off a faint reading. Fox said it was most likely an average rock that has a small quantity of naturally-occurring uranium in it. Rocks like that are fairly common and can be found pretty much anywhere, Fox said, although some areas, such as the Okanogan or the desert Southwest, have higher concentrations of ore. It could be lying on the ground somewhere and no-one would ever notice it, nor would it harm anyone, he said. ``This is extremely low-level material,'' Fox said. ``Anything can shield it. Paper can shield it. The box was more than enough to do it.'' It was still unconfirmed late Friday that the boy actually bought the rock on eBay. A search of eBay under the word ``uranium'' reveals more than 350 products for sale, many of them dinnerware made of uranium-containing ``Vaseline glass'' and uranium glass marbles, beads, jewelry and decorative objects, in addition to pieces of raw uranium ore. The Web auction company has policies governing the sale of radioactive material that are close to those of the U.S. Postal Service. ``If it's illegal to do or sell off eBay, you can't use eBay to do it,'' said eBay spokesman Hani Durzy. Many products containing radioactive materials, such as smoke detectors, glassware, clocks, or ceramics have such low levels that no government licenses are required for someone to possess or sell them. Uranium ore found in nature would fall into the same category, although questionable postings would be reviewed on a case-by-case basis, he said. But if the boy's claim is true, he has another problem: No-one under 18 is allowed to have an account or buy anything on eBay, and if he used someone else's account the account-holder could be held liable, Durzy said. The school is taking appropriate disciplinary actions against the boy, Rice said, though she wouldn't specify what those are. Kirkland Police Lt. Rex Caldwell said they are not pursing a criminal case at this time. Chris Winters can be reached at chris.winters@kingcountyjournal.com or 425-453-4232. All materials Copyright ? 2005 Horvitz Newspapers, Inc. From drtanuki at yahoo.com Fri Oct 7 23:50:10 2005 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Fri Oct 7 23:50:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mercury In-Reply-To: <001001c5cbd2$2cf82dc0$05fcb3d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <20051008065010.24548.qmail@web53215.mail.yahoo.com> Dear List, Back some twenty five years ago it was a common entertainment for students to bring mercury to school to our science lab and play with it during study hall or during class. Times have changed a lot. We also used to bring to school metallic lead to trade and collect. A note on Chinese culture: It is still a common practice to give a child prior to or on their first birthday red pills made of mercury oxide to ensure a long life. I found this out first hand when my son was given this "magic medicine" by his "grandmother" when I lived in Taiwan. I was very angry at my wife when I found out and shocked to learn of such practice. It was too late to do anything; my son now 16 seems fine, without health problems or learning problems. Sincerely, Dirk Ross..Tokyo From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Sat Oct 8 02:53:50 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Sat Oct 8 02:53:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lawyers or mineral collectors? References: <43473550.526@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20051007193414.043b7850@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <000a01c5cbee$2fdd62a0$78f1edc1@mpc1> Hi guys I go away for a few days and what happens? 15 squillion e-mails on litigation and the hazards of living on earth. So I guess even if you survive breathing the air, drinking the water and walking the ground the lawyers will get you anyway. Let's hope they don't put you in a granite-built cell with lead plumbing ... Mick From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Oct 8 06:21:53 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sat Oct 8 06:14:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Agate Collecting Localities (was Rockhound magazine) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1128777713.5138.1.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 10:21 -0400, Nathan Martin wrote: > Steve, John, et al > > For the rest of us who are not local to your area please let us know > what State (or country) you are referring to in your posts about > collecting localities. I'm guessing that it is Texas but would prefer > to not guess. > > Thanks for the interesting posts. > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > To Nate and June: Yes sir and yes, ma'am. It is Texas. john From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sat Oct 8 07:41:58 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Oct 8 07:42:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE industrial materials (and minerals) in the recent past In-Reply-To: <200510072347.j97NljJu008836@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20051008144158.1810.qmail@web34603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi list: Making dimes out of pennies with a little mercury was common practice when I was little. And my Dad (my whole family, really) worked at a newspaper, his office in the newsroom was directly above a furnace full of molten lead in the pressroom below. The pressmen cast two curved lead plates for every page in the next morning's newspaper, more if they messed one up. Until I became 3-D aware I wondered why his office was so hot in the summertime! I actually have had molten lead squirt from the mold of a linotype machine and spatter all over my lap. It would form a thin lead foil stuck to the denim jeans we wore in the composing room, year 'round. It was a hot place to work in august! It usually took the rest of the shift to pick the lead off my jeans. There were saws, probably a couple of dozen little tanks of molten lead at each linotype, and a big furnace where all the day's cast type was recycled into little 45 lb ingots to be recast into type for the next news cycle. Lots of fresh air circulated by giant fans, but still a hot and somewhat dangerous place. I worked there for two years, and then learned how to produce a newspaper using photo-type set offset press technology. And in the photo-engraving shop, photographic technology was married to zinc reduction by nitric acid to make screened "cuts" used to print half-tone photos in black and white on newsprint. It was a wonderful way to grow up, pretty much free run in an industrial plant, with 1000 lb rolls of paper to climb on, acid to watch smoking as it etched plates of zinc, molten lead. Huge electrical motors to spin the big 3 story press in the basement! There was a certain ozone/burnt copper smell to the electrical contactors when they clicked on and off, moving the press just a few inches to allow the pressmen to adjust things for color printing! My family thought nothing of giving me a tiny furnace I could cast toy lead soldiers with in my bedroon at home. The Gilbert chemistry set seemed a little tame compared to going to work with my dad when school was out! Now, I collect minerals related to the industry I grew up in, lead and zinc ores, ores that produce photographic materiels, industrial ores that happen to be beautiful, like fluorites, copper ores, etc. Modern industrial capacity is fascinating to me, and I enjoy learning about large industrial plants and their methods from co-workers who are engineers and geologists. I also like what onf friend calls "industrial archeology", what we called trespassing on the abandoned factory when I was a kid. But now that Lloyd (not his real name!) is an engineer AND a lawyer, he knows how to find an owner, and how to negotiate a visit to a wreck of an industrial plant, sometimes even by offering to buy junk machinery. My wife has a picture of her Dad, an engineer, wearing a hard hat with a carbide lamp on it, just before he went to work. Carbide is great stuff, you can generate acyteline (sp?) gas from it in any quantity desired, and create a giant jet of white-hot flame in the back yard, by mixing it with plain old water! I understand that in the days between the onset of the industrial age and electrical lighting, wealthy people would have carbide generators in the furnace room, to supply gas to the gas-lights in the library! At least you wouldn't have to wonder if there was a gas leak, the stuff has a strong smell! JR, industrially, from WV Great fun, I never plan to grow up! JR in WV __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ From agate at cox.net Sat Oct 8 12:08:30 2005 From: agate at cox.net (agate@cox.net) Date: Sat Oct 8 12:09:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help needed Message-ID: <20051008190851.MOYX4527.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Does anyone know the English translation for Urazite which I believe is Spanish. Babblefish does not help. From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Oct 8 12:30:46 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Oct 8 12:28:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help needed In-Reply-To: <20051008190851.MOYX4527.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> References: <20051008190851.MOYX4527.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: <43481E66.4020401@verizon.net> agate@cox.net wrote: > Does anyone know the English translation for Urazite which I > believe is Spanish. Babblefish does not help. Hi, Just out of curiousity I did a search and came up with a majority of hits in what appear to be an eastern Eurpoean language. But then again, it may be a native word in some of those languages that has nothing to do with a rock name! One hit in English was this very interesting one: http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=4335222 Can you tell us more about what it is--now I'm really curious--usually when you're searching for a valid species, or even most synonyms, varieties, and colloquial names, they jump out in your face; but not this one. Where is it from? It seems to be a uranium mineral. What is the original material you're trying to translate? Please let me know if you do find out. Good luck and keep in touch, Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 8 13:08:52 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 8 13:00:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help needed References: <20051008190851.MOYX4527.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: <4348253A.111@Tomaszewski.net> agate@cox.net wrote: > > Does anyone know the English translation for Urazite which I > believe is Spanish. Babblefish does not help. > I did a search on Google for 'what mineral is urazite' and it suggested I should search for 'what material is azurite'. From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Sat Oct 8 13:31:13 2005 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Sat Oct 8 13:31:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help needed In-Reply-To: <4348253A.111@Tomaszewski.net> References: <20051008190851.MOYX4527.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> <4348253A.111@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <43482C91.3030300@xs4all.nl> Maybe Uralite ? Maurice Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >agate@cox.net wrote: > > >>Does anyone know the English translation for Urazite which I >>believe is Spanish. Babblefish does not help. >> >> >> > >I did a search on Google for 'what mineral is urazite' and it suggested >I should search for 'what material is azurite'. >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From kahako at verizon.net Sat Oct 8 13:33:05 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Oct 8 13:33:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] simple jewelry Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051008101357.039d2388@incoming.verizon.net> While at a restaurant this morning Bill and I noticed the seating hostess had on a really interesting necklace. We knew it was a rock, and commented on it, and she said it was slate. It was about 6cm long, 3cm wide, and 5mm thick. It appeared that all that was done to it was to drill a hole and attach an attractive but simple cord. The rock had not been cut or polished; yet it made a striking piece of jewelry. I know that part of the joy of making jewelry from stones is the lapidary part, the cutting, shaping, polishing, and that most people select specimens which have some special quality that seems to call out "wear me!" Well, here was a simple piece of slate, in its natural state (wow, I'm a poet ;)) and it was gorgeous in its simplicity. Sometimes less is more. Aloha, Kitty From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Oct 8 13:36:31 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Oct 8 13:36:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE industrial materials (and minerals) in the recentpast In-Reply-To: <20051008144158.1810.qmail@web34603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Industrially speaking, and being in the telephone industry, your molten lead reference strikes home, as it also should with plumbers using lead solder to seal copper pipes. Many telephone splicers who used lead solder in confined manholes with inadequate ventilation have been diagnosed with severe lead poisoning due to inhaling the fumes. And many more have most or all of the symptoms but remain undiagnosed. There was one telephone manhole near my childhood home and many of us kids would descend there after the splicers left to collect the freshly deposited lead solder drippings. >From this we made fishing weights, sling shot pellets, toy soldiers, and lots of hot cool toys. Who knew the dangers? We also have had many die in the manholes simply due to oxygen deprivation. Without adequate ventilation in the small space a hardworking person and a torch can deplete the available oxygen very fast. And it doesn't have to be used up by the victim. A manhole can be desadly from prior use, or even filled wilth well-diggers gas, or even gasoline fumes! (Heavier than air you know.) Victims just go to sleep...peacefully. And I saw the molten lead in the type room of the Mobile Press years ago, and they even gave me my name in type-set! A friend of my dad's worked there. Interesting stuff. Glenn From: "J. R. Hodel" <jr50wv@yahoo.com> Hi list: Making dimes out of pennies with a little mercury was common practice when I was little. And my Dad (my whole family, really) worked at a newspaper, his office in the newsroom was directly above a furnace full of molten lead in the pressroom below. The pressmen cast two curved lead plates for every page in the next morning's newspaper, more if they messed one up. JR, industrially, from WV Great fun, I never plan to grow up!   ***Just being on this list shuold help keep us all young! Glenn {:={D} ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Search, shop, and browse smarter using tabs with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From bg at his.com Sat Oct 8 13:49:33 2005 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Sat Oct 8 13:48:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE industrial materials (and minerals) in the recentpast In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <710077ba0847807d6fd14ec51854fabd@his.com> > My uncle set lead type for the council bluffs non pareil for many years. he too gave me my name in lead in 1965. wish i knew where it was now. cathy > And I saw the molten lead in the type room of the Mobile Press > years ago, and they even gave me my name in type-set! A friend of my > dad's worked there. > > Glenn From agate at cox.net Sat Oct 8 14:09:46 2005 From: agate at cox.net (agate@cox.net) Date: Sat Oct 8 14:10:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help needed Message-ID: <20051008211002.TWNS29333.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> > > From: DonH > Date: 2005/10/08 Sat PM 03:30:46 EDT > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Help needed > > agate@cox.net wrote: > > Does anyone know the English translation for Urazite which I > > believe is Spanish. Babblefish does not help. > > > Hi, > > Can you tell us more about what it is--now I'm really curious--usually > when you're searching for a valid species, or even most synonyms, > varieties, and colloquial names, they jump out in your face; but not > this one. > > Where is it from? It seems to be a uranium mineral. What is the > original material you're trying to translate? > > Please let me know if you do find out. > > > Good luck and keep in touch, > Don > Don Thanks for your interest.The label is from Pareja Minerales in Granada,Spain. Its name is: BRAZITE from Badojof, Spain. Hugh ____________________________________________ From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Oct 8 14:59:39 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sat Oct 8 14:51:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhound magazine In-Reply-To: <000701c5c92d$d663c060$78f1edc1@mpc1> References: <00ac01c5c891$8e0d0c00$5f87633f@marilyn> <1128457184.5134.68.camel@localhost> <000701c5c92d$d663c060$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <1128808779.5138.23.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 22:51 +0100, Mick Cooper wrote: > > Why the mention of the birding places? Well, the other half of this > > family is way into birds, and good rock places are not good bird places, > > and usually vice versa. Ah, well. Life is full of little compromises. > > The Caldbeck Fells in Cumberland used to be great for both. Now you can't > collect rocks without a licence, but you can watch the birds: kestrel, > buzzard, peregrine, hobby, merlin, phalarope, ouzel, dipper, etc. In the > days I used to camp there (you can't do that any more either) I used to sit > on a rock by a waterfall in the morning and share my bread with the wrens > while some small predatory thing kept an eye on us both. It was a weasel or > a stoat. I forget how to distinguish between them though I recall you can > weasely tell cos they're stoataly different. > > Mick Well, Mick, I guess you have the same problem in England as we do in the U.S. Our parents and grandparents had the run of the country because THEY ran the country. Now I often wonder who it is that really runs either country...? stotaly is a great pun word, which I'm sure you observed. Thank you. john From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 8 16:02:07 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 8 16:02:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help needed References: <20051008211002.TWNS29333.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: <43484FDE.B95@Tomaszewski.net> I did a search for BRAZITE on MinDat and it came back with ABRAZITE, A synonym of Gismoindine or of Phillipsite-K (Clark, 1933 - "Hey's Mineral Index"). agate@cox.net wrote: > > > > > From: DonH > > Date: 2005/10/08 Sat PM 03:30:46 EDT > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Help needed > > > > agate@cox.net wrote: > > > Does anyone know the English translation for Urazite which I > > > believe is Spanish. Babblefish does not help. > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > Can you tell us more about what it is--now I'm really curious--usually > > when you're searching for a valid species, or even most synonyms, > > varieties, and colloquial names, they jump out in your face; but not > > this one. > > > > Where is it from? It seems to be a uranium mineral. What is the > > original material you're trying to translate? > > > > Please let me know if you do find out. > > > > > > Good luck and keep in touch, > > Don > > > Don > > Thanks for your interest.The label is from Pareja Minerales in Granada,Spain. Its name is: BRAZITE from Badojof, Spain. > > Hugh ____________________________________________ > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sat Oct 8 17:47:01 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sat Oct 8 17:47:00 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE industrial materials (and minerals) in the recentpast References: <20051008144158.1810.qmail@web34603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601c5cc6a$f64601f0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> I used get the carbide nuggets my brother used for his acetylene torch and drop them into a line of coke bottles out in our street. Then add a little water...a match...and voila, my own personal line of torches. Real pretty to see at night, and I personally loved the smell. Did you know the rounded lip of a Coke bottle will pop off in a complete ring when they get hot? How did we ever survive childhood??? Jeanette Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 9:41 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] RE industrial materials (and minerals) in the recentpast > Hi list: > > Making dimes out of pennies with a little mercury was > common practice when I was little. And my Dad (my > whole family, really) worked at a newspaper, his > office in the newsroom was directly above a furnace > full of molten lead in the pressroom below. The > pressmen cast two curved lead plates for every page in > the next morning's newspaper, more if they messed one > up. > > I actually have had molten lead squirt from the mold > of a linotype machine and spatter all over my lap. It > would form a thin lead foil stuck to the denim jeans > we wore in the composing room, year 'round. It was a > hot place to work in august! From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Oct 8 18:11:38 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Sat Oct 8 18:13:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE industrial materials (and minerals) in therecentpast References: <20051008144158.1810.qmail@web34603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000601c5cc6a$f64601f0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <000e01c5cc6e$6f825b10$12b4010a@warren> > How did we ever survive childhood??? > Jeanette Jeanette - I'll let you know when it's over ;-) Rockhounding makes me feel like I am eight years old and treasure hunting. Julie From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sat Oct 8 18:25:08 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sat Oct 8 18:25:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE industrial materials (and minerals) intherecentpast References: <20051008144158.1810.qmail@web34603.mail.mud.yahoo.com><000601c5cc6a$f64601f0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <000e01c5cc6e$6f825b10$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <008a01c5cc70$49223830$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Ok......how WILL we ever survive childhood......thinking "I'm too old for this" as I'm scrambling over rocks and boulders trying to hold a rock hammer in one hand and a bag in the other... Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE industrial materials (and minerals) intherecentpast > >> How did we ever survive childhood??? >> Jeanette > > Jeanette - I'll let you know when it's over ;-) > > Rockhounding makes me feel like I am eight years old and treasure hunting. > > Julie > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Sat Oct 8 18:37:33 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Oct 8 18:37:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051009014722.DC9851E310F@alora.infowest.com> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese Nightshade is a fernlike deadly plant..probably Prince's plume... Glenn No, Glenn--; Princes' plume (Stanleya pinnata) is in the mustard family. And the poison it absorbs from the soil is selenium. Which everybody needs a tiny bit of in their diet. Nightshade is a different type of situation. (It is in the potato family, by the way). It contains poisonous alkaloids which are definitely anything we need in our diet! Margaret From: "Margaret Malm" kadok@infowest.com Curious- According to the label on my bottle of multivitamins, manganese has a minimum daily requirement of 2 milligrams! Jim And, I would add, Jim, that we need a tiny bit of selenium in our diet, but that it also is very poisonous -- There are a few plants in nature, such as Princes' plume, and Rattleweed milkvetch, that collect selenium from the soil (using it like other plants use sulfur), and a few mouthfuls of any of these plants will kill a cow within a few hours. Margaret ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Oct 8 20:11:24 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Oct 8 20:11:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese In-Reply-To: <20051009014722.DC9851E310F@alora.infowest.com> Message-ID: Howdy Margaret! You are 100% right. Nightshade and potato plants and tomatoes are all closely related "belladonna"...showed my ignorance again...jeanette pointed out I was describing Bracken Fern...must be the confusion resulting from lead , mercury, and radiation...Bracken is toxic due to HCN (cyanide) compounds and is a carcinogen...and has been used in food for humans and animals... Glenn From: "Margaret Malm" <kadok@infowest.com> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese Nightshade&nbsp;is a fernlike deadly plant..probably Prince's plume... Glenn No, Glenn--; Princes' plume (Stanleya pinnata) is in the mustard family. And the poison it absorbs from the soil is selenium. Which everybody needs a tiny bit of in their diet. Nightshade is a different type of situation. (It is in the potato family, by the way). It contains poisonous alkaloids which are definitely anything we need in our diet! Margaret ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation - the next best thing to being there! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Oct 8 20:23:51 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Sat Oct 8 20:25:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese References: Message-ID: <002701c5cc80$e398cf90$12b4010a@warren> In my 6th grade camp survival course, they pointed out Bracken Fern as FOOD! lol Public education - whatcha gonna do? Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 8:11 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese > Howdy Margaret! > > You are 100% right. Nightshade and potato plants and tomatoes are all > closely related "belladonna"...showed my ignorance again...jeanette > pointed out I was describing Bracken Fern...must be the confusion > resulting from lead , mercury, and radiation...Bracken is toxic due to HCN > (cyanide) compounds and is a carcinogen...and has been used in food for > humans and animals... > > Glenn > > > > > > > From: "Margaret Malm" <kadok@infowest.com> > Subject: > RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese > > > > Nightshade&nbsp;is a fernlike deadly plant..probably Prince's plume... > > Glenn > > No, Glenn--; Princes' plume (Stanleya pinnata) is in the mustard family. > And the poison it absorbs from the soil is selenium. Which everybody needs > a > tiny bit of in their diet. > > Nightshade is a different type of situation. (It is in the potato family, > by > the way). It contains poisonous alkaloids which are definitely anything we > need in our diet! > > Margaret > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation - the next best thing to > being there! > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Oct 8 20:36:11 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Oct 8 20:36:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese In-Reply-To: <002701c5cc80$e398cf90$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: Yup..eat the rhyzome...too much over time will give you digestive tract cancer...a little bit of cyanide never killed anybody did it?...but who knew? Glenn {:={D} From: "Julie Siebel" julie@pandemoniumgraphics.com In my 6th grade camp survival course, they pointed out Bracken Fern as FOOD! lol Public education - whatcha gonna do? Julie ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ MSN Premium brings together everything you need on the Internet in 1 place, including PC security! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 8 21:33:00 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 8 21:32:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials References: Message-ID: <43489D3A.23A0@Tomaszewski.net> Hey Glenn, Bracken Fern is great in salad -- as long as you collect it when small, and before the fronds unroll. I introduced it into my garden, along with leaverite from my collecting trips, to reduce the number of toxins missing in my environment. If you can't mine it, it must be grown. I like to do both. It is the old buffalo theory. Predators claim the weak and infirm, and the herd gets stronger. Toxins (and beer) kill off your weaker brain cells and you get smarter. The more toxins in your environment, the smarter you get. There is no reason to limit yourself to just collecting minerals (but it is a good start, and it will make you smarter ;-}. Kreigh Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > Howdy Margaret! > > You are 100% right. Nightshade and potato plants and tomatoes are all closely related "belladonna"...showed my ignorance again...jeanette pointed out I was describing Bracken Fern...must be the confusion resulting from lead , mercury, and radiation...Bracken is toxic due to HCN (cyanide) compounds and is a carcinogen...and has been used in food for humans and animals... > > Glenn > > From: "Margaret Malm" <kadok@infowest.com> > Subject: > RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese > > Nightshade&nbsp;is a fernlike deadly plant..probably Prince's plume... > > Glenn > > No, Glenn--; Princes' plume (Stanleya pinnata) is in the mustard family. > And the poison it absorbs from the soil is selenium. Which everybody needs a > tiny bit of in their diet. > > Nightshade is a different type of situation. (It is in the potato family, by > the way). It contains poisonous alkaloids which are definitely anything we > need in our diet! > > Margaret From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Oct 8 22:08:16 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Oct 8 22:00:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds References: <200510090102.j9912Ufe004775@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> What specific minerals might be hazardous? What specific precautions do you take for the hazardous minerals in your collections? Is the life expectancy of a Rockhound longer or shorter than Joe Public? Kreigh's questions are valid but there are no hard and fast answers. Many minerals could be hazards, but in small quantities we probably should not worry about them. Has anyone heard of a collector or rockhound whose health has been impacted in any way from his hobby? I don't think I ever have. Although some of us may segregate our uranium and mercury minerals in places in the house or garage in such a fashion to limit direct exposure, I think if we examine our reasons for doing this it is not based on any factual information about them causing degraded health but because of all that has been written about the toxic effects of radiation and mercury. I am sure that there have been no studies to determine the live expectancy of "Rockhounds" vs., the rest of the public. If there is some detriment to the life expectancy of "rockhounds" caused by his contact with rocks and minerals it is probably more than offset by time added to his life by the exercise he gets field collecting. Of all the professions, Geologists, I have been told have the longest life spans. If we want to consider what possible health impacts minerals and rocks can have on life expectancy we can look at the extensive health and mortality data available on various kinds of miners and those working with various minerals. A whole lifetime of rockhounding is not likely to expose us to even a tiny fraction of the exposure that different kinds of miners get. How much health damage does working for a lifetime in uranium mines produce? There seem to be some correlation to elevated rates of some kinds of cancer, but many of these miners live to old age. How about asbestos miners. Again some correlation. I heard of one study done on the miners in Asbestos, Quebec and there seemed to be more lung impairment for those men working in the mill than in the open pit mine and the amount of lung impairment of the housewives living there was about comparable to house wives in Miami Beach, Florida. I heard of another study that showed a higher level of asbestos in the air outside a school than inside the school even though it had asbestos in its structure. How about lead miners. Men worked all their lives in the lead mines in the TriState district and I don't think I ever heard about a case of lead poisoning. Lung impairment from silicosis yes, but not lead poisoning. I have always loved malachite and have at times done lapidary work on malachite and remember the terrible nasty taste in my mouth from exposure to a little malachite dust. I believe from my own personal experience that malachite dust is very toxic. I have also been told that men working malachite in the little suburb of Lumbumbashi, PRC (Peoples Republic of the Congo) has serious health impacts from working the material. A couple of years ago I visited a lapidary factory in Daye city in Hubai province. This is the home of a 3000 year old bronze culture and there are still many active copper mines in the area. The factory made necklaces made from the various oxidized copper ores from the local mines. As soon as I entered the factory I started to cough and my eyes started to water and I am sure it was from the dust in the air from the grinding of stones containing malachite and azurite. As soon as I went outside, the irritation stopped. The workers didn't seem to have the same problem as I but I would wager there would be long term health problems from such a job. Some years ago I was at the shop of a guy that imported a lot of minerals and malachite carvings from the Congo. He had some eggs and among them was a large goose egg size egg of a strange green looking material. Upon examining it closely I found it was made from cuprosklodoskite that comprised a high percentage of the stone. Sure enough, when I got it home and put a Geiger counter on it, it was really hot. I had seen the way carvings were made in the Congo and knew that much of the rough shaping of the stones was on dry grinding wheels. If the guy who made the cuprosklodoskite egg made any quantity of them I would imagine that he would glow at night walking down the street. No way could he not have serious medical problems later in life from making eggs ground dry from cuprosklodoskite. About 30 years ago I visited a lapidary factory in Cambay, India. It is a little village at the head of the Gulf of Cambay (Kamabay) on the coast north of Bombay. They have been making beads there for well over a 100 years. It was generally known that if you worked a long time grinding the agates you would have health problems. I asked one of the grinders if he knew about these health problems and he said yes he did, but he usually worked in another kind of factory and he was grinding just for a while till he could get another job. I have found the various true life stories about mercury and mercury minerals to be very instructive and interesting. This is the kind of thing that there should be more of. Rock From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Oct 8 22:36:43 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Oct 8 22:34:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> References: <200510090102.j9912Ufe004775@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <4348AC6B.8000406@verizon.net> Rock Currier wrote: > Has anyone heard of a collector or rockhound whose health > has been impacted in any way from his hobby? I don't think I ever have. Hi Rock, Now you've gone and asked a question to which I once knew the answers, but don't remember them completely now. Darn it. However, maybe these half-answers will jog some other folks' memories. I heard a tale of a man who made a bolo tie with some nice Daybreak Mine autunite. He reportedly died of throat cancer. I heard this at a show back east about 5 years ago while I was buying some low-level radioactive mineral from a dealer. I forget the name and I wouldn't know where to begin asking about his identity. There was another story about a man back east who died from bone cancer that was supposedly caused by the large piece of pitchblende he kept next to his desk, right by his leg, the same leg where the bone cancer started. I want to say it was Paul Seel, but I can't be sure. One of the old-time micromounters told me this one, it may have been John Ebner; but at least I know where to beign tracking down the veracity of that one. I just remembered another one, with more solid provenance--a few weeks ago, the "father of forensic geology," Ray Murray, came to our school to lecture. At one point during his speech, he mentioned a legal case where a young boy's parents were accused of trying to poison the boy with arsenic. Thanks to the magic of forensic geology, the investigators discovered that the previous owners of the house were mineral collectors, and some quantity of arsenopyrite had been dumped behind the house, and the lad was putting the weathered rocks in his mouth as children will do. Of course these are exceptions; but it does happen. I wonder what it would take to maintain those statistics about how many rockhounds are affected by the hobby--for example, how many people would relate the existence of their kidney stones to frequent unventilated use of heated oxalic acid to clean minerals? What I'd really like to know is how dangerous some of my radioactive specimens really are. I was one of the last generation of Civil Defense nuclear radiological monitors trained, back about 1978, and I'm quite familiar with alpha, beta, and gamma radiation; unfortunately I don't have a working geiger counter to check them. I'd be just as happy to get rid of them all and have them in the hands of someone who specializes in collecting radioactives and is well versed in maintaining them safely. By the way, my mother also told stories about coating pennies with mercury when she was little. Best regards, Don From kahako at verizon.net Sun Oct 9 00:24:38 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Oct 9 00:24:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> References: <200510090102.j9912Ufe004775@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051008192900.023927d8@incoming.verizon.net> Rock, thank you for a great response---again---very informative and interesting. For those who may not know, cuprosklodoskite and sklodowskite are named for Marie Sklodowska Curie...Madame Curie, discoverer of radium and the first prominent woman scientist of the 20th century. I'm looking at a picture Bill (in response to my question) just put before me from a book "Albert Einstein" by Albrecht Folsing. It shows the members of the First Solvay Conference, Brussels, 1911. It shows 23 men (including a young dark-haired Einstein), and one woman---Marie Curie. Everyone is posing for the picture, except Marie and a gentlemen who are continuing to study some notes; she has her forehead propped on her hand in concentration, ignoring the camera. I believe both she and her husband died of cancer induced by radioactivity from their scientific investigations. Aloha, Kitty & Bill At 07:08 PM 10/8/2005, Rock Currier wrote: >What specific minerals might be hazardous? What specific precautions do you >take for the hazardous minerals in your collections? Is the life >expectancy of a >Rockhound longer or shorter than Joe Public? Upon examining it closely I found it was made from cuprosklodoskite that comprised a high percentage of the stone. From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Oct 9 05:30:35 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Oct 9 05:30:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <4348AC6B.8000406@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200510091230.j99CUbK6026521@outmx013.isp.belgacom.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 7:37 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds Of course these are exceptions; but it does happen. I wonder what it would take to maintain those statistics about how many rockhounds are affected by the hobby--for example, how many people would relate the existence of their kidney stones to frequent unventilated use of heated oxalic acid to clean minerals? >>>>> Sorry, Don, but heated oxalic acid (solution that is) cannot be harmful because the toxic component, oxalic acid, is not at all volatile. What could possibly happen is that in intensively boiling solutions some oxalic acid is entrained with water droplets, but that must be minimal. And BTW I can't imagine why someone would treat himself chronically with steaming oxalic acid solutions ? Greetings, Rik Dillen From agesilaus at gmail.com Sun Oct 9 08:43:09 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Oct 9 08:43:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <4348AC6B.8000406@verizon.net> References: <200510090102.j9912Ufe004775@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> <4348AC6B.8000406@verizon.net> Message-ID: There is, no surprise, a lot of argument in the Radiation Physics community over the question of how much external radiation is harmful. Examination of the statistics actually seems to show that moderate exposure is actually beneficial. Looking at the Chernobyl, investigators have repeatedly reduced the casualty figures. Only a 150 or people actually involved at the reactor site have been shown to have radiation related injuries. The large spike in radiation induced cancer just has not occurred. Right now there is no settled answer to the question. Just how radioactive is a chunk of pitchblende? I see a reference that says pitchblende has about 1 gm of Ra per 7 tons of ore. That gives you about .004 curies in a 25 kg chunk of ore. At a few centimeters that would give off quite a bit of gamma radiation, maybe a 100 mrem. I can see that as being a real hazard. But most other radioactive rocks are long lived isotopes like Uranium or Thorium. Radium has a semi-short halflife of 1600 years as opposed to Uranium-238 (the common isotope) which has a halflife of 4.5 billion years. Thorium-230 has a halflife of 75000 years and would be of more concern, but that is only 1/50 the halflife of Radium. I still wouldn't keep a chunk of thorium ore to use as a foot rest tho. BK On 10/9/05, DonH wrote: > > Rock Currier wrote: > > > Has anyone heard of a collector or rockhound whose health > > has been impacted in any way from his hobby? I don't think I ever have. > > > Hi Rock, > > Now you've gone and asked a question to which I once knew the answers, > but don't remember them completely now. Darn it. However, maybe these > half-answers will jog some other folks' memories. > > I heard a tale of a man who made a bolo tie with some nice Daybreak Mine > autunite. He reportedly died of throat cancer. I heard this at a show > back east about 5 years ago while I was buying some low-level > radioactive mineral from a dealer. I forget the name and I wouldn't > know where to begin asking about his identity. > > There was another story about a man back east who died from bone cancer > that was supposedly caused by the large piece of pitchblende he kept > next to his desk, right by his leg, the same leg where the bone cancer > started. I want to say it was Paul Seel, but I can't be sure. One of > the old-time micromounters told me this one, it may have been John > Ebner; but at least I know where to beign tracking down the veracity of > that one. > > I just remembered another one, with more solid provenance--a few weeks > ago, the "father of forensic geology," Ray Murray, came to our school to > lecture. At one point during his speech, he mentioned a legal case > where a young boy's parents were accused of trying to poison the boy > with arsenic. Thanks to the magic of forensic geology, the > investigators discovered that the previous owners of the house were > mineral collectors, and some quantity of arsenopyrite had been dumped > behind the house, and the lad was putting the weathered rocks in his > mouth as children will do. > > Of course these are exceptions; but it does happen. I wonder what it > would take to maintain those statistics about how many rockhounds are > affected by the hobby--for example, how many people would relate the > existence of their kidney stones to frequent unventilated use of heated > oxalic acid to clean minerals? > > What I'd really like to know is how dangerous some of my radioactive > specimens really are. I was one of the last generation of Civil Defense > nuclear radiological monitors trained, back about 1978, and I'm quite > familiar with alpha, beta, and gamma radiation; unfortunately I don't > have a working geiger counter to check them. I'd be just as happy to > get rid of them all and have them in the hands of someone who > specializes in collecting radioactives and is well versed in maintaining > them safely. > > By the way, my mother also told stories about coating pennies with > mercury when she was little. > > > Best regards, > Don > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Oct 9 08:52:13 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Oct 9 08:52:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: >Is the life expectancy of a Rockhound >longer or shorter than Joe Public? Yes, since Joe Public was killed in the stampede at Grand Central Station in NY that followed the announcement that the beautiful granite of which the station is built (by the same architect that designed the University Library of Leuven, Belgium:-) is radioactive and produces radon. Joe's ashes will be kept in a lead urn... just to be on the safe side (ROFL) Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Oct 9 09:03:04 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Oct 9 09:03:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help needed In-Reply-To: <43484FDE.B95@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: According to the much scorned mindat.org site, it could very well be uricite. It's a valid IMA-approved species that is the natural occurrence of uric acid. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: zondag 9 oktober 2005 1:02 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Help needed I did a search for BRAZITE on MinDat and it came back with ABRAZITE, A synonym of Gismoindine or of Phillipsite-K (Clark, 1933 - "Hey's Mineral Index"). agate@cox.net wrote: > > > > > From: DonH > > Date: 2005/10/08 Sat PM 03:30:46 EDT > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Help needed > > > > agate@cox.net wrote: > > > Does anyone know the English translation for Urazite which I > > > believe is Spanish. Babblefish does not help. > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > Can you tell us more about what it is--now I'm really curious--usually > > when you're searching for a valid species, or even most synonyms, > > varieties, and colloquial names, they jump out in your face; but not > > this one. > > > > Where is it from? It seems to be a uranium mineral. What is the > > original material you're trying to translate? > > > > Please let me know if you do find out. > > > > > > Good luck and keep in touch, > > Don > > > Don > > Thanks for your interest.The label is from Pareja Minerales in Granada,Spain. Its name is: BRAZITE from Badojof, Spain. > > Hugh ____________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Oct 9 09:56:08 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Oct 9 09:56:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese Message-ID: <207.b249096.307aa5a8@aol.com> I think this is interesting in that it point to the fact that some substances are good for us in small amounts or at least not harmful and yet toxic in larger doses. Other substances, notably heavy metals can accumulated in the body over time to toxic levels. While I certainly have heard of toxic effects from these in work and home I don't recall ever having heard of a collector who suffered from metals poisoning from specimens in the collection. Of course radioactive materials are a different matter. Several years ago I rounded up all the radioactive stuff and put it out in the Garage which does not get ventilated back to the house. Of course my main concern is Radon, rather than the primary radiation coming from the specimens. Certainly the body can detoxify very small amounts of cyanides contained in normal foods, whereas larger (still small) doses prevent your blood from carrying oxygen. Small amounts of fluorides are needed to build strong teeth, but large single doses tie up the calcium in your body as CaF2 and shut down your nervous system. Even Belladonna type alkaloids, toxic in large doses, have been used by physicians to reduce chaotic muscle spasms in heart disease and irritable bowel syndrome. Of course there are others that are carcinogenic and who knows if there are "safe" levels for those. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 10/8/2005 11:25:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, julie@pandemoniumgraphics.com writes: > Nightshade is a different type of situation. (It is in the potato family, > by > the way). It contains poisonous alkaloids which are definitely anything we > need in our diet! > > Margaret --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Sun Oct 9 09:56:07 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Sun Oct 9 09:56:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds Message-ID: I know of a few rock hounds or rather lapidaries and fossil preparators who did a fair amount of dry sanding and other dust-making processes unprotected. They suffered from a few types of lung impairing conditions (emphysema etc). While it would be tough to pin the conditions solely on the rock dust, I'm sure the dust contributed to their health condition. (Most of these old collectors were also smokers.) As for me I played with mercury as a kid and tolerated some mercury in the sink of the lab in which I did my senior thesis in college. It was within about 6 feet of my face for about 3 hours every day during my last semester in college. When I started working for a chemical company upon graduation I needed clearance to work in an area where mercury was used as a catalyst. They sent me for a tests to baseline me which amounted to getting stuck in the ear lobe and urinating in a bottle. A few days later the director of medical called me to ask me a whole lot of questions and to tell me I was KOA (Kicked Out of Area) till the Hg in my urine got below the concern level. About 4 months later I had returned to within statistically normal limits and was cleared to work in the area. I know of no long term effects from this exposure some 35+ years ago, though my wife insists I'm crazy. I think this point out that occasional exposure to low levels of mercury is not likely to have long term ill effects. Obviously everyone's tolerance is different and long term exposure to low levels as well as single event exposure to high levels is a serious problem. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 9 11:05:01 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 9 11:02:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <200510091230.j99CUbK6026521@outmx013.isp.belgacom.be> References: <200510091230.j99CUbK6026521@outmx013.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <43495BCD.1030409@verizon.net> > > is not at all volatile. What could possibly happen is that in intensively boiling solutions some oxalic acid is > entrained with water droplets, but that must be minimal. And BTW I can't imagine why someone would treat himself > chronically with steaming oxalic acid solutions ? Hi Rik, Oxalic acid is frequently mentioned as a method for removing iron stains from materials like quartz. Some people make a solution in a crock pot and let it heat slowly. The fumes are noxious, and many others will warn you not to breathe the fumes. It always made sense that this was something I should not be breathing, so I never questioned it. That's the first time I've heard someone say that it wasn't harmful. However I have no direct evidence to support one point or the other. None the less, one form of kidney stone is hydrated calcium oxalate! http://www.urologychannel.com/kidneystones/index.shtml Always wanted a specimen of that, but everyone I know who had one says "the doctor took it." Again, I never questioned any assertions about the harmfulness of oxalic acid or a possible like to calcium oxalate-based kidney stones. It gets away from the scope of the list, but it's one of the ideas I'd like to pursue further if I had the time. Best, Don From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Oct 9 11:19:34 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Oct 9 11:19:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds References: <200510090102.j9912Ufe004775@bubbleator.drizzle.com><000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> <4348AC6B.8000406@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001901c5ccfd$fffe8670$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> > Rock Currier wrote: > >> Has anyone heard of a collector or rockhound whose health >> has been impacted in any way from his hobby? I don't think I ever have. > > Judging from the ages of the folks in our rockhound club, there must be something in those rocks that "preserves" them and keeps 'em around for a long time. Either that or they are actually middle aged and just look ancient from the gamma rays and toxins and such in the rocks. Jeanette From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 9 12:29:33 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Oct 9 12:29:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <4348AC6B.8000406@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20051009192933.33632.qmail@web34312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've also heard this tale (or is it legend?). I heard it about 20 years ago, from a gentleman who has since passed away, so I can't get any more details. I believe the victim was from the Chicago area. I also seem to recall that he died at the age of 80 from that cancer! Jim > I heard a tale of a man who made a bolo tie with > some nice Daybreak Mine > autunite. He reportedly died of throat cancer. I > heard this at a show > back east about 5 years ago while I was buying some > low-level > radioactive mineral from a dealer. I forget the > name and I wouldn't > know where to begin asking about his identity. __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 9 12:41:26 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Oct 9 12:41:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <20051009194126.53532.qmail@web34315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> How about lead miners. Men worked > all their lives in the > lead mines in the TriState district and I don't > think I ever heard about a > case of lead poisoning. Lung impairment from > silicosis yes, but not lead > poisoning. > I wouldn't expect much lead poisoning in the mines. The lead has to be in an absorbable form to be a problem. Most lead ores, other than cerussite, aren't all that soluble. The big problem with lead is the absorbable compounds made from it: tetraethyl lead and basic lead carbonate (lead white, used in the past in paint) are the most common exanples. Jim __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 9 12:54:02 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Oct 9 12:54:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese In-Reply-To: <20051009014722.DC9851E310F@alora.infowest.com> Message-ID: <20051009195402.56162.qmail@web34315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Brings to mind another story about plants concentrating certain elements: Back when airborne lead from automotive exhaust first came to notice, an attempt was made to establish background levels. The scientists doing the work decided that Tibet would be a good place to do air sampling, since there aren't many cars there. To their surprise, the airborne lead level in Tibet was higher than in many US cities! Further investigation showed that there is a type of grass there that concentrates lead. The yaks eat that grass, and excrete the lead in their droppings. The people burn yak dung for heating and cooking, putting the lead into the atmosphere. Although I can't verify the story, I heard it from a reputable source, at a meeting of a technical committee of the Lead Industries Association. Jim --- Margaret Malm wrote: > > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- > Manganese > > Nightshade is a fernlike deadly plant..probably > Prince's plume... > > Glenn > > No, Glenn--; Princes' plume (Stanleya pinnata) is in > the mustard family. > And the poison it absorbs from the soil is selenium. > Which everybody needs a > tiny bit of in their diet. > > Nightshade is a different type of situation. (It is > in the potato family, by > the way). It contains poisonous alkaloids which are > definitely anything we > need in our diet! > > Margaret > > From: "Margaret Malm" kadok@infowest.com > > > Curious- According to the label on my bottle of > multivitamins, manganese has a minimum daily > requirement of 2 milligrams! > Jim > > > And, I would add, Jim, that we need a tiny bit of > selenium in our diet, but > that it also is very poisonous -- There are a few > plants in nature, such as > Princes' plume, and Rattleweed milkvetch, that > collect selenium from the > soil (using it like other plants use sulfur), and a > few mouthfuls of any of > these plants will kill a cow within a few hours. > > Margaret > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Find just what you're after with the new, more > precise MSN Search - try it > now! > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 9 13:34:36 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Oct 9 13:34:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051009203437.65717.qmail@web34315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > We have dangerously high levels of bisphenol-alpha, > which causes a.o. breast > cancer, in our blood because we find it hygienic to > store our beverages in > plastic bottles. > > Cheerio > > Axel > Do you really use bisphenol-A as an antioxidant in food-grade plastics in Europe? That's been outlawed for many years in the US. Jim __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Oct 9 13:41:26 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Oct 9 13:42:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <43495BCD.1030409@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200510092041.j99KfQJ0013627@outmx009.isp.belgacom.be> I'm not completely sure, but IMHO heating up the oxalic acid solution is probably not that beneficial for the removal of "iron stains" compared to the room temperature solution. That was the point of my message. Or am I wrong in that ? Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 8:05 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds > > is not at all volatile. What could possibly happen is that in intensively boiling solutions some oxalic acid is > entrained with water droplets, but that must be minimal. And BTW I can't imagine why someone would treat himself > chronically with steaming oxalic acid solutions ? Hi Rik, Oxalic acid is frequently mentioned as a method for removing iron stains from materials like quartz. Some people make a solution in a crock pot and let it heat slowly. The fumes are noxious, and many others will warn you not to breathe the fumes. It always made sense that this was something I should not be breathing, so I never questioned it. That's the first time I've heard someone say that it wasn't harmful. However I have no direct evidence to support one point or the other. None the less, one form of kidney stone is hydrated calcium oxalate! http://www.urologychannel.com/kidneystones/index.shtml Always wanted a specimen of that, but everyone I know who had one says "the doctor took it." Again, I never questioned any assertions about the harmfulness of oxalic acid or a possible like to calcium oxalate-based kidney stones. It gets away from the scope of the list, but it's one of the ideas I'd like to pursue further if I had the time. Best, Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From roughrock at gmail.com Sun Oct 9 15:33:13 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sun Oct 9 15:33:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help needed In-Reply-To: <20051008190851.MOYX4527.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> References: <20051008190851.MOYX4527.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: Some words don't have a Spanish equivalent. I remember hearing a radio ad for a car lot in Spanish. The entire thing was in Spanish including the 4 digit street address but the street was Highway 99 South. Grant On 10/8/05, agate@cox.net wrote: > Does anyone know the English translation for Urazite which I > believe is Spanish. Babblefish does not help. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From roughrock at gmail.com Sun Oct 9 15:42:31 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sun Oct 9 15:42:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> References: <200510090102.j9912Ufe004775@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: On 10/8/05, Rock Currier wrote: Is the life expectancy of a > Rockhound > longer or shorter than Joe Public? > I think the liquid in a saw, and the mist in the air, is more dangerous than rock dust. However, some rocks like serpentine have asbestos in them. Grant From agesilaus at gmail.com Sun Oct 9 15:45:04 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Oct 9 15:45:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <200510092041.j99KfQJ0013627@outmx009.isp.belgacom.be> References: <43495BCD.1030409@verizon.net> <200510092041.j99KfQJ0013627@outmx009.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: The rule of thumb is that a chemical rate of reaction doubles for each 10 degree (C) increase in temperature. So hotter is faster. BK On 10/9/05, Rik Dillen wrote: > > I'm not completely sure, but IMHO heating up the oxalic acid solution is > probably not that beneficial for the removal of > "iron stains" compared to the room temperature solution. That was the > point of my message. Or am I wrong in that ? > Greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto: > rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH > Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 8:05 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds > > > > > > is not at all volatile. What could possibly happen is that in > intensively boiling solutions some oxalic acid is > > entrained with water droplets, but that must be minimal. And BTW I can't > imagine why someone would treat himself > > chronically with steaming oxalic acid solutions ? > > Hi Rik, > > Oxalic acid is frequently mentioned as a method for removing iron stains > from materials like quartz. Some people make a solution in a crock pot > and let it heat slowly. The fumes are noxious, and many others will > warn you not to breathe the fumes. It always made sense that this was > something I should not be breathing, so I never questioned it. That's > the first time I've heard someone say that it wasn't harmful. However I > have no direct evidence to support one point or the other. > > None the less, one form of kidney stone is hydrated calcium oxalate! > > http://www.urologychannel.com/kidneystones/index.shtml > > Always wanted a specimen of that, but everyone I know who had one says > "the doctor took it." > > Again, I never questioned any assertions about the harmfulness of oxalic > acid or a possible like to calcium oxalate-based kidney stones. It gets > away from the scope of the list, but it's one of the ideas I'd like to > pursue further if I had the time. > > > Best, > Don > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Oct 9 14:32:31 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Oct 9 16:34:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds References: <200510090102.j9912Ufe004775@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <000901c5cd18$ffdb52c0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Rock wrote: > Although some of us may segregate our uranium and mercury minerals in places > in the house or garage in such a fashion to limit direct exposure, I think > if we examine our reasons for doing this it is not based on any factual > information about them causing degraded health Actually, I stored the cinnabar so that the specimens wouldn't degrade. I wasn't worried about health issues (although I always wash my hands after playing with them). :-) John From kadok at infowest.com Sun Oct 9 18:26:33 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Oct 9 18:26:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051010013634.E83F41E30DD@alora.infowest.com> Howdy Margaret! ...Bracken is toxic due to HCN (cyanide) compounds and is a carcinogen...and has been used in food for humans and animals... Glenn And still (the "fiddleheads") eaten by some people! Margaret From: "Margaret Malm" <kadok@infowest.com> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese Nightshade&nbsp;is a fernlike deadly plant..probably Prince's plume... Glenn No, Glenn--; Princes' plume (Stanleya pinnata) is in the mustard family. And the poison it absorbs from the soil is selenium. Which everybody needs a tiny bit of in their diet. Nightshade is a different type of situation. (It is in the potato family, by the way). It contains poisonous alkaloids which are definitely anything we need in our diet! Margaret ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get MSN Messenger with FREE Video Conversation - the next best thing to being there! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Sun Oct 9 18:31:16 2005 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Oct 9 18:31:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials In-Reply-To: <43489D3A.23A0@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20051010014117.89F311E30DD@alora.infowest.com> Hi, Kreigh, The "fronds before they unroll" are called "fiddleheads", and they, too, (although the most comoomonly eaten part of the plant) are still poisonous! Margaret Hey Glenn, Bracken Fern is great in salad -- as long as you collect it when small, and before the fronds unroll. I introduced it into my garden, along with leaverite from my collecting trips, to reduce the number of toxins missing in my environment. If you can't mine it, it must be grown. I like to do both. It is the old buffalo theory. Predators claim the weak and infirm, and the herd gets stronger. Toxins (and beer) kill off your weaker brain cells and you get smarter. The more toxins in your environment, the smarter you get. There is no reason to limit yourself to just collecting minerals (but it is a good start, and it will make you smarter ;-}. Kreigh Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > Howdy Margaret! > > You are 100% right. Nightshade and potato plants and tomatoes are all closely related "belladonna"...showed my ignorance again...jeanette pointed out I was describing Bracken Fern...must be the confusion resulting from lead , mercury, and radiation...Bracken is toxic due to HCN (cyanide) compounds and is a carcinogen...and has been used in food for humans and animals... > > Glenn > > From: "Margaret Malm" <kadok@infowest.com> > Subject: > RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese > > Nightshade&nbsp;is a fernlike deadly plant..probably Prince's plume... > > Glenn > > No, Glenn--; Princes' plume (Stanleya pinnata) is in the mustard family. > And the poison it absorbs from the soil is selenium. Which everybody needs a > tiny bit of in their diet. > > Nightshade is a different type of situation. (It is in the potato family, by > the way). It contains poisonous alkaloids which are definitely anything we > need in our diet! > > Margaret _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Oct 9 20:52:52 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Oct 9 20:48:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials References: <20051010014117.89F311E30DD@alora.infowest.com> Message-ID: <4349E48F.372@Tomaszewski.net> Margaret, 'Fiddleheads' are only slightly toxic when picked early and small, and before they begin to unroll. I avoided the common name in an attempt to be more clear. If the fern is more than about 8 inches tall, or if it has started to unroll, it gets bitter, and that is a warning you don't want to swallow/eat it. But in moderation it is a real treat. BTW, fiddleheads can also be cooked, and have a taste kinda like asparigus. Cooking also reduces the risk of poison from the plant. I have quite a few field guides for edible plants and find it interesting that only half of them include bracken fern. What is more interesting is that most of them that document it are older guides (though a few more recent ones do include it). But every one that does list fiddleheads has warnings about small, early, and/or bitter. There are many plants that have toxins in them that can still be eaten if harvested at the right time, and/or are properly prepared. You have to wonder how they were ever discovered; Rhubarb is another example. And to keep this on topic, it should be noted that plants not only do their own mining, they also refine and process the minerals they find. Animals live on plants (and/or other animals). If it can't be grown, it has to be mined, and plants do their own mining. Rockhounding really is the study of the source of all living things and should excite everyone. Kreigh Margaret Malm wrote: > > Hi, Kreigh, > The "fronds before they unroll" are called "fiddleheads", and they, too, > (although the most comoomonly eaten part of the plant) are still poisonous! > > Margaret > > > Hey Glenn, > > Bracken Fern is great in salad -- as long as you collect it when small, > and before the fronds unroll. I introduced it into my garden, along with > leaverite from my collecting trips, to reduce the number of toxins > missing in my environment. > > If you can't mine it, it must be grown. I like to do both. > > It is the old buffalo theory. Predators claim the weak and infirm, and > the herd gets stronger. Toxins (and beer) kill off your weaker brain > cells and you get smarter. The more toxins in your environment, the > smarter you get. > > There is no reason to limit yourself to just collecting minerals (but it > is a good start, and it will make you smarter ;-}. > > Kreigh > > Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > > > Howdy Margaret! > > > > You are 100% right. Nightshade and potato plants and tomatoes are all > closely related "belladonna"...showed my ignorance again...jeanette pointed > out I was describing Bracken Fern...must be the confusion resulting from > lead , mercury, and radiation...Bracken is toxic due to HCN (cyanide) > compounds and is a carcinogen...and has been used in food for humans and > animals... > > > > Glenn > > > > From: "Margaret Malm" <kadok@infowest.com> > > Subject: > > RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Manganese > > > > Nightshade&nbsp;is a fernlike deadly plant..probably Prince's plume... > > > > Glenn > > > > No, Glenn--; Princes' plume (Stanleya pinnata) is in the mustard family. > > And the poison it absorbs from the soil is selenium. Which everybody needs > a > > tiny bit of in their diet. > > > > Nightshade is a different type of situation. (It is in the potato family, > by > > the way). It contains poisonous alkaloids which are definitely anything we > > need in our diet! > > > > Margaret From leeper at molalla.net Sun Oct 9 23:25:27 2005 From: leeper at molalla.net (leeper) Date: Sun Oct 9 23:25:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? Message-ID: <041301c5cd63$67e144c0$0b01a8c0@default> Okay, I've been lurking here for some time, first time to reply. These are from a local site here in Molalla, nobody knows about it yet, just found it today, pristine. The crystals I assume are quartz. But then there are the long stringy things, does anyone happen to know what they are? http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock1.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock2.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock3.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock4.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock5.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock6.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock7.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock8.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock9.jpg Some other local material: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/quartz~1.jpg I'd sure like to hear from anyone that is in the greater local area, I'm just getting into the hobby. It is part of another hobby of mine, driving old mountain roads. Besides Tim Fisher's Ore-Rockon list, I'd sure like to locate other sites around Oregon, Washington, Northern California, Idaho. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Sun Oct 9 23:44:55 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sun Oct 9 23:37:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: References: <200510090102.j9912Ufe004775@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <000d01c5cc8f$75a7d490$36e3a5d8@rock5> <4348AC6B.8000406@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1128926695.5146.4.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2005-10-09 at 11:43 -0400, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > There is, no surprise, a lot of argument in the Radiation Physics community > over the question of how much external radiation is harmful. Examination of > the statistics actually seems to show that moderate exposure is actually > beneficial. > Looking at the Chernobyl, investigators have repeatedly reduced the > casualty figures. Only a 150 or people actually involved at the reactor site > have been shown to have radiation related injuries. The large spike in > radiation induced cancer just has not occurred. > Right now there is no settled answer to the question. Re: Chernobyl, see: http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed for a first-hand account of the Chernobyl area today. It is a pretty devastating account. john From jabac at hal-pc.org Sun Oct 9 23:53:11 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Sun Oct 9 23:45:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <43495BCD.1030409@verizon.net> References: <200510091230.j99CUbK6026521@outmx013.isp.belgacom.be> <43495BCD.1030409@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1128927191.5146.10.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2005-10-09 at 11:05 -0700, DonH wrote: > None the less, one form of kidney stone is hydrated calcium oxalate! > > http://www.urologychannel.com/kidneystones/index.shtml > > Always wanted a specimen of that, but everyone I know who had one says > "the doctor took it." > > Again, I never questioned any assertions about the harmfulness of oxalic > acid or a possible like to calcium oxalate-based kidney stones. It gets > away from the scope of the list, but it's one of the ideas I'd like to > pursue further if I had the time. > > > Best, > Don > Since oxalates are prominent in spinach, I would suppose that eating lots of the vegetable could produce same. I wonder how Popeye fared in his old age? john From jabac at hal-pc.org Mon Oct 10 00:32:33 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Mon Oct 10 00:24:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? In-Reply-To: <041301c5cd63$67e144c0$0b01a8c0@default> References: <041301c5cd63$67e144c0$0b01a8c0@default> Message-ID: <1128929553.5146.31.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2005-10-09 at 23:25 -0700, leeper wrote: > Okay, I've been lurking here for some time, first time to reply. > > These are from a local site here in Molalla, nobody knows about it yet, just found it today, pristine. > > The crystals I assume are quartz. My first guess would be a fairly low temp hydrolized deposit. Tabular and stubby quartz. Replacement or coating of schorl with quartz, some sceptered. Straw quartz?? Opal?? Perhaps Celestine. More info on hardness and/or flame test would help. The bull quartz seems to reflect traces of copper in the seam edges. john From pbhewitt at comcast.net Mon Oct 10 05:51:34 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Mon Oct 10 05:52:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? References: <041301c5cd63$67e144c0$0b01a8c0@default> Message-ID: <001301c5cd99$58afe520$6401a8c0@maingear> I dont know what it is but I sure would like to have some!! Paul in Marietta ----- Original Message ----- From: "leeper" To: Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 2:25 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? Okay, I've been lurking here for some time, first time to reply. These are from a local site here in Molalla, nobody knows about it yet, just found it today, pristine. The crystals I assume are quartz. But then there are the long stringy things, does anyone happen to know what they are? http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock1.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock2.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock3.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock4.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock5.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock6.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock7.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock8.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock9.jpg Some other local material: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/quartz~1.jpg I'd sure like to hear from anyone that is in the greater local area, I'm just getting into the hobby. It is part of another hobby of mine, driving old mountain roads. Besides Tim Fisher's Ore-Rockon list, I'd sure like to locate other sites around Oregon, Washington, Northern California, Idaho. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 10/7/2005 From cabrageo at flexanet.com.br Mon Oct 10 03:10:50 2005 From: cabrageo at flexanet.com.br (Cabrageo) Date: Mon Oct 10 06:15:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] INFORMATION REQUIRED In-Reply-To: <000d01c5c89d$f4d7a100$574027c4@privatehome> References: <000d01c5c89d$f4d7a100$574027c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <434A3E2A.7030803@flexanet.com.br> Horst: In Cuba, there are nice agates and carnelian along the northern side of the Sierra Maestre, especially just south of Bayamo. They show up as weathered white lumps in the cane and banana fields, but the interiors are fantastic. David From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Oct 10 06:58:52 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Oct 10 06:58:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: <20051009203437.65717.qmail@web34315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jim, it was shown in a study that we have far too high levels of it in our blood. Problem seems to be that it's in the food chain. It also mimics female hormones and seems to be the main cause of receding sperm-quality in European males. The danger also lies in the concentration of the stuff. It is FAR more dangerous in PPB range than in PPM range. A few parts per billion in the water of a river or lake can cause the fish population to spawn hermaphroditic off-spring. So actually it is less harmful in food plastics (high concentration in the food) than the food plastics waste in the environment. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jim Daly Verzonden: zondag 9 oktober 2005 22:35 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure > We have dangerously high levels of bisphenol-alpha, > which causes a.o. breast > cancer, in our blood because we find it hygienic to > store our beverages in > plastic bottles. > > Cheerio > > Axel > Do you really use bisphenol-A as an antioxidant in food-grade plastics in Europe? That's been outlawed for many years in the US. Jim __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Mon Oct 10 07:30:18 2005 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Mon Oct 10 07:30:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? In-Reply-To: <001301c5cd99$58afe520$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: What interesting growths! My first impression is that they are chalcedony stalactites. Could be opal or calcite or other carbonate too. Check for fizz with weak HCl to check for calcite. Do they fluoresce in UV? Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 On 10/10/05 7:51 AM, "Paul" wrote: > I dont know what it is but I sure would like to have some!! > > Paul in Marietta > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "leeper" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 2:25 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? > > > Okay, I've been lurking here for some time, first time to reply. > > These are from a local site here in Molalla, nobody knows about it yet, just > found it today, pristine. > > The crystals I assume are quartz. > > But then there are the long stringy things, does anyone happen to know what > they are? > > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock1.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock2.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock3.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock4.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock5.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock6.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock7.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock8.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock9.jpg > > Some other local material: > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/quartz~1.jpg > > > I'd sure like to hear from anyone that is in the greater local area, I'm > just getting into the hobby. It is part of another hobby of mine, driving > old mountain roads. Besides Tim Fisher's Ore-Rockon list, I'd sure like to > locate other sites around Oregon, Washington, Northern California, Idaho. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 10/7/2005 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From teyancey at mail.tca.net Sat Oct 8 08:01:22 2005 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Mon Oct 10 08:01:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? Message-ID: Leeper, The samples all have quartz on them and most of the crystals are short quartz prisms. The 'long stringy things' are probably natrolite needles covered with quartz. Natrolite commonly grows in this manner in the Oregon-Washington volcanic deposits. The more club-shaped long growths appear to be quartz stalactites, but they may have a natrolite needle in the center. This is very attractive material. If you have some extra or waste samples of the 'long stringy', break it open and look to see if there is a central strand on which the quartz has grown. Use a hand lens to examine it, at least 10X magnification and 15X or 20X would be better. Nice. Tom Yancey -- Thomas Yancey From albalmer at att.net Mon Oct 10 08:01:11 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Oct 10 08:02:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials In-Reply-To: <4349E48F.372@Tomaszewski.net> References: <20051010014117.89F311E30DD@alora.infowest.com> <4349E48F.372@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <434A8237.60601@att.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Margaret, > > 'Fiddleheads' are only slightly toxic when picked early and small, and > before they begin to unroll. I avoided the common name in an attempt to > be more clear. If the fern is more than about 8 inches tall, or if it > has started to unroll, it gets bitter, and that is a warning you don't > want to swallow/eat it. But in moderation it is a real treat. They're considered a delicacy by my Korean wife, and they're commonly available in Oriental groceries. From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 10 08:43:15 2005 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Oct 10 08:43:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? References: <041301c5cd63$67e144c0$0b01a8c0@default> Message-ID: <004301c5cdb1$54e115f0$73814c0c@LarryRush> Neat looking growths. Where is Molalla, and in what kind of environment are these found? Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "leeper" To: Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 2:25 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? Okay, I've been lurking here for some time, first time to reply. These are from a local site here in Molalla, nobody knows about it yet, just found it today, pristine. The crystals I assume are quartz. But then there are the long stringy things, does anyone happen to know what they are? From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Oct 10 08:45:17 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Oct 10 08:45:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials In-Reply-To: <4349E48F.372@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Kreigh, This says it all! Glenn From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Kreigh@tomaszewski.net Rockhounding really is the study of the source of all living things and should excite everyone. Kreigh ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find e-mail, documents and more on your PC instantly with Windows Desktop Search–FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Oct 10 08:47:39 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Oct 10 08:49:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? In-Reply-To: <041301c5cd63$67e144c0$0b01a8c0@default> References: <041301c5cd63$67e144c0$0b01a8c0@default> Message-ID: <434A8D1B.6000303@tenforward.com> Hi Leeper, The problem with guesses is that they are only that, guesses. As a thought, consider the mineralogy of the area your prospecting, odds are your specimen will coincide with this. Should you have a desire, the Pacific Northwest Friends of Mineralogy is having their yearly symposium this weekend (14th - 16th) in Kelso, Washington (just off I-5 at the Red Lion Hotel). This is an open to the public event which many of the NW's most active field collectors attend. Folks will mingle on Friday evening in the 2 dozen hotel rooms open where mineral specimens from the NW and the World are offered. Saturday the actual symposium begins (Minerals of Mississippi Valley- Type Deposits) this will run throughout the morning and afternoon with talks by former Washington State Geologist Ray Lasmanis, California pegmatite collector and Rogerly Mine operator Jesse Fisher, and John Rakovan, one of the executive editors for Rocks & Minerals magazine, will be our keynote speakers. Should you decide to attend the symposium, the registration fee also includes a banquet dinner that evening (visiting the rooms Friday and Saturday evenings is free). Sunday will have 2 more talks, including one, An Oregon Update by Aaron Weiting, which may prove of significant interest to you. Either way, bring your specimens and share in the good times. Rudy Tschernich, author of Zeolites of the World and Curator of the Rice Northwest Museum of Rocks and Minerals in Hillsboro, Oregon will also be in attendance and no finer zeolite authority will be found in this region. I'll be there, stop by and say hi. Take care, congrats on your find and good luck with your identification. All the very best, John For more information: The Pacific Northwest Friends of Mineralogy......... http://www.pnwfm.org/ The Rice Northwest Museum of Rocks and Minerals........ http://www.ricenwmuseum.org/ leeper wrote: >Okay, I've been lurking here for some time, first time to reply. > >These are from a local site here in Molalla, nobody knows about it yet, just found it today, pristine. > >The crystals I assume are quartz. > >But then there are the long stringy things, does anyone happen to know what they are? > >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock.jpg >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock1.jpg >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock2.jpg >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock3.jpg >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock4.jpg >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock5.jpg >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock6.jpg >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock7.jpg >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock8.jpg >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock9.jpg > >Some other local material: >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/quartz~1.jpg > > >I'd sure like to hear from anyone that is in the greater local area, I'm just getting into the hobby. It is part of another hobby of mine, driving old mountain roads. Besides Tim Fisher's Ore-Rockon list, I'd sure like to locate other sites around Oregon, Washington, Northern California, Idaho. > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Oct 10 08:52:29 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Mon Oct 10 08:54:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? References: <041301c5cd63$67e144c0$0b01a8c0@default> <004301c5cdb1$54e115f0$73814c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <002801c5cdb2$a3a24280$12b4010a@warren> Molalla is about 25 south-ish of Portland, Oregon... Lotsa zeolites in that area... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? > Neat looking growths. Where is Molalla, and in what kind of environment > are these found? > > Larry > From tim at orerockon.com Mon Oct 10 10:08:47 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Oct 10 10:09:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? In-Reply-To: <002801c5cdb2$a3a24280$12b4010a@warren> References: <041301c5cd63$67e144c0$0b01a8c0@default> <004301c5cdb1$54e115f0$73814c0c@LarryRush> <002801c5cdb2$a3a24280$12b4010a@warren> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051010095859.0290be90@orerockon.com> I guessed quartz, chalcedony, and possibly stilbite and apophyllite. I sent the pics to Rudy T to see what he thinks. Most probably from vugs in Columbia River flood basalts, that's about all you get in the western Cascade low foothills of NW OR (which includes the Molalla OR area). I have been to a few dozen undocumented (but not uncollected lol) quarries in the Cascades & the coast range, and very similar associations of quartz/calcite/ and apophyllite/stilbite in basalt vugs are fairly common. Less common are mordenite/natrolite on calcite/quartz (common in SW WA but less so in NW OR). The tabular quartz & chalcedony stalactites are common along the Columbia R. north & west of Vancouver, esp. on the WA side (e.g. Altoona). At 08:52 AM 10/10/2005, you wrote: >Molalla is about 25 south-ish of Portland, Oregon... > >Lotsa zeolites in that area... > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 8:43 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? > > >>Neat looking growths. Where is Molalla, and in what kind of >>environment are these found? >> >>Larry > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Oct 10 10:23:07 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Oct 10 10:12:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? References: <041301c5cd63$67e144c0$0b01a8c0@default> Message-ID: <000a01c5cdbf$48495420$997ca118@feldsparflash> They sure look like quartz and microcyrstalline quartz...what is the hardness? Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "leeper" To: Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 2:25 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? Okay, I've been lurking here for some time, first time to reply. These are from a local site here in Molalla, nobody knows about it yet, just found it today, pristine. The crystals I assume are quartz. But then there are the long stringy things, does anyone happen to know what they are? http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock1.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock2.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock3.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock4.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock5.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock6.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock7.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock8.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock9.jpg Some other local material: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/quartz~1.jpg I'd sure like to hear from anyone that is in the greater local area, I'm just getting into the hobby. It is part of another hobby of mine, driving old mountain roads. Besides Tim Fisher's Ore-Rockon list, I'd sure like to locate other sites around Oregon, Washington, Northern California, Idaho. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Mon Oct 10 10:11:23 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Oct 10 11:01:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051010101013.026d0a48@orerockon.com> Didnt think of natrolite needles, you are probably correct. Scratch the stilbite lol. At 08:01 AM 10/8/2005, you wrote: >Leeper, > >The samples all have quartz on them and most of the crystals are >short quartz prisms. The 'long stringy things' are probably >natrolite needles covered with quartz. Natrolite commonly grows in >this manner in the Oregon-Washington volcanic deposits. The more >club-shaped long growths appear to be quartz stalactites, but they >may have a natrolite needle in the center. > >This is very attractive material. If you have some extra or waste >samples of the 'long stringy', break it open and look to see if >there is a central strand on which the quartz has grown. Use a hand >lens to examine it, at least 10X magnification and 15X or 20X would be better. > >Nice. >Tom Yancey > >-- >Thomas Yancey Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Oct 10 11:15:05 2005 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Oct 10 11:16:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200510101815.j9AIF6Ys006704@outmx013.isp.belgacom.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 12:45 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds The rule of thumb is that a chemical rate of reaction doubles for each 10 degree (C) increase in temperature. So hotter is faster. >>>>> I know, Bryan, but I don't see any practical advantage of speeding up the dissolution reaction : what's the deal in having all the trouble with heating chemicals, if you obtain the same result by just leaving it a few more hours at room temperature ? Greetings, Rik Dillen From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Oct 10 11:35:56 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Oct 10 11:24:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gem & Mineral Show Message-ID: <004d01c5cdc9$747c9750$997ca118@feldsparflash> To All Rockhounds Near & Far: 36th Annual Gem & Mineral Show & Sale Hosted by the Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society, Inc. Dutchess County Fairgrounds, Rhinebeck, New York October 15-16. Sat. 10-5 Sunday 10-4 Show Theme- "Gems & Precious Stones" 27 dealers of minerals, gems, jewelry, fossils', beads, meteorites, books, lapidary supplies 6 free rocks for children Exhibits, demonstrations Grand Prize and Hourly Raffles Extra Credit Earth Science Scavenger Hunt. Admission for the Fairgrounds is $10.00: that includes: MHVG&MS Gem& Mineral Show, New York Sheep & Wool and Family Festival. There will be a wide selection of foods, games and many activities for children. Parking is free Carolyn Reynard, 2005 Show Chm. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 10 11:45:25 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Oct 10 11:45:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051010184525.72741.qmail@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > The danger also > lies in the concentration > of the stuff. It is FAR more dangerous in PPB range > than in PPM range. A few > parts per billion in the water of a river or lake > can cause the fish > population to spawn hermaphroditic off-spring. So > actually it is less > harmful in food plastics (high concentration in the > food) than the food > plastics waste in the environment. > > Axel Axel, Can you provide a reference (preferably available on line) for this? I'm finding it hard to accept something being more toxic in lower concentrations than higher. I have heard of such cases on the larger scale. Some poisons aren't effective in large doses because they cause vomiting, for example, but that's not what we're talking about here, are we? Jim __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Oct 10 10:13:51 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Oct 10 12:16:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Please help me identify? References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051010101013.026d0a48@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <005b01c5cdbe$022533c0$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Or possibly mesolite? John > Didnt think of natrolite needles, you are probably correct. Scratch > the stilbite lol. > > At 08:01 AM 10/8/2005, you wrote: > > >Leeper, > > > >The samples all have quartz on them and most of the crystals are > >short quartz prisms. The 'long stringy things' are probably > >natrolite needles covered with quartz. Natrolite commonly grows in > >this manner in the Oregon-Washington volcanic deposits. From rocks4u at prodigy.net Mon Oct 10 12:59:00 2005 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Mon Oct 10 13:09:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: AD: 45-Year Rough Rock Sale (Delete now if not interested) Message-ID: <434AC804.000013.03712@WES-MEDION-1918> 45-YEAR ROUGH ROCK SALE Ralph Bishop, Santa Maria, CA. 618 E Cook St. 805-925-4122 As promised here is the current bid for the roughly 20,000 lbs of rough rock being sold: $9,800.00 USD It is now time for the best and final offers to be placed by Telephone to the number above before closing time of 12 Noon Saturday, 15 October, 2005. After that time the winning bidder will be notified by return phone call. I will be out of town on the 13th and 14th of October but will return no later than the morning of 15 October to receive any final bids. Please do not call on the 13th or 14th (before then is OK). Thank you for your participation. Ralph --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Oct 10 15:32:17 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Oct 10 15:32:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Life expectancy of rocks hounds In-Reply-To: <1128927191.5146.10.camel@localhost> References: <200510091230.j99CUbK6026521@outmx013.isp.belgacom.be> <43495BCD.1030409@verizon.net> <1128927191.5146.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: I have a list of oxalate rich foods. One of them is eggs. When my wife gets home I'll ask her where the list is and type it into an email. My wife remembers where I put my stuff. I don't know of any connection between oxalic acid and calcium oxalate. People who are prone to kidney stones are put on a low oxalate diet. (I got a friend who's a urologist, a strange medical choice, IMHO. Grant On 10/9/05, john wrote: > On Sun, 2005-10-09 at 11:05 -0700, DonH wrote: > > > None the less, one form of kidney stone is hydrated calcium oxalate! > > > > http://www.urologychannel.com/kidneystones/index.shtml > > > > Always wanted a specimen of that, but everyone I know who had one says > > "the doctor took it." > > > > Again, I never questioned any assertions about the harmfulness of oxalic > > acid or a possible like to calcium oxalate-based kidney stones. It gets > > away from the scope of the list, but it's one of the ideas I'd like to > > pursue further if I had the time. > > > > > > Best, > > Don > > > > Since oxalates are prominent in spinach, I would suppose that eating > lots of the vegetable could produce same. I wonder how Popeye fared in > his old age? > > > john > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Mon Oct 10 17:30:59 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 10 17:31:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure Message-ID: <128.6709d634.307c61c3@aol.com> Well I've heard it said that Oxygen in the PPB range is rapidly fatal, but at concentrations near 20% contributes to a slower form of death ........ called aging. Sorry, couldn't resist Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 10/10/2005 2:46:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sauktown1@yahoo.com writes: > Axel Axel, Can you provide a reference (preferably available on line) for this? I'm finding it hard to accept something being more toxic in lower concentrations than higher. I have heard of such cases on the larger scale. Some poisons aren't effective in large doses because they cause vomiting, for example, but that's not what we're talking about here, are we? Jim --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From leeper at molalla.net Mon Oct 10 21:23:28 2005 From: leeper at molalla.net (leeper) Date: Mon Oct 10 21:23:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Continued: Please help me identify References: <200510110102.j9B12tTb024164@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000601c5ce1b$89703c00$0b01a8c0@default> Here are the older photos: > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock1.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock2.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock3.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock4.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock5.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock6.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock7.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock8.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock9.jpg Well, I attempted to take some better pictures with what I have sitting around here: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~1.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~1.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~1.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~1.jpg From leeper at molalla.net Mon Oct 10 21:34:12 2005 From: leeper at molalla.net (leeper) Date: Mon Oct 10 21:31:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Continued: Please help me identify Message-ID: <001101c5ce1d$08c615a0$0b01a8c0@default> Sorry, I hit the wrong key, here is the fixed message: Here are the older photos: > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock1.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock2.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock3.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock4.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock5.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock6.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock7.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock8.jpg > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molrock9.jpg > Well, I attempted to take some better pictures with what I have sitting around here, mainly close-ups: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~1.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~2.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~3.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~4.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~5.jpg (another Molalla, OR site) http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~6.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~7.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~8.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~9.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~10.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molall~11.jpg I'm not sure if this helps, but I haven't had a chance to clean them up- except with a bit of water. Everything was covered and full of this deep carbon black looking stuff that I have been told in the past is probably manganese (btw, it is as messy as carbon black too..). Most of it flushes out very easy with nothing more than water. I will try the HCl trick with some muraic acid I have sitting around here, on a damaged chunk. If it is a calcium material, and bubbles, will oxalic acid damage calcium like HCl? Thanks everyone for the warm reception. From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Oct 10 21:48:41 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Oct 10 21:46:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Continued: Please help me identify In-Reply-To: <001101c5ce1d$08c615a0$0b01a8c0@default> References: <001101c5ce1d$08c615a0$0b01a8c0@default> Message-ID: <434B4429.40706@verizon.net> > I will try the HCl trick with some muraic acid I have sitting around here, > on a damaged > chunk. If it is a calcium material, and bubbles, will oxalic acid damage > calcium like > HCl? Ah, you have completed the circle. Oxalic acid + calcium carbonate = calcium oxalate and (a few other misc. things I'm too tired to calculate stoichiometrically right now... Gene? Axel? J. Bryan? anyone?) This calcium oxalate... is the inorganic and pure version... of the kidney stones! So you see the connection. This has been discussed on the list on the past, but one thing to look out for is cleaning iron-stained quartz with oxalic acid if there is also calcite or aragonite present; it can be re-deposited on your specimen as a hazy white coating. Hope this helps. BTW, I have no idea what you've got, beyond what others have suggested, but those photos are COOL! Don From leeper at molalla.net Mon Oct 10 22:25:50 2005 From: leeper at molalla.net (leeper) Date: Mon Oct 10 22:24:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cont: Help Identify References: <200510110102.j9B12tTb024164@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000f01c5ce24$3e517f00$0b01a8c0@default> Well, goofed up the URL on a few of those, lets try it again: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molal~10.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molal~11.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molal~12.jpg From kahako at verizon.net Mon Oct 10 22:59:42 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Oct 10 22:59:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cont: Help Identify In-Reply-To: <000f01c5ce24$3e517f00$0b01a8c0@default> References: <200510110102.j9B12tTb024164@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <000f01c5ce24$3e517f00$0b01a8c0@default> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051010195516.025c9130@incoming.verizon.net> Great photos, leeper. Aloha, Kitty At 07:25 PM 10/10/2005, you wrote: >Well, goofed up the URL on a few of those, lets try it again: > >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molal~10.jpg >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molal~11.jpg >http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molal~12.jpg >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Oct 11 06:05:01 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Oct 11 06:05:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:Chernobyl In-Reply-To: <1128926695.5146.4.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Terriffic trip report on this link. Just in case anyone is interested in radioactivity after the catastrophy there. Glenn From: john <jabac@hal-pc.org> Re: Chernobyl, see: http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed for a first-hand account of the Chernobyl area today. It is a pretty devastating account. john ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find just what you're after with the new, more precise MSN Search - try it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Oct 11 06:27:25 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Oct 11 06:27:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: <20051010184525.72741.qmail@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If you please, Jim. I didn't read them all but the Net is flooded with information about this subject. The effect was initially discovered by a female Spanish doctor but I failed to look up her name. Axel http://www.communities-against-toxics.org.uk/PDF/ToxCat%20Vol%202%20No%202.p df page 3 http://www.iconmag.co.uk/page.php?n=212 http://www.ping.be/~ping5859/Eng/ChlorineHorm.html http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1994/142/142p13.htm http://www.toxics.net/genderbenderscausespermburnout.htm http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2493 http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/biochemistry/oldweb/staff/jh/itoxic.html http://www.iupac.org/publications/pac/special/0998/jost.html http://www.kindredspirit.co.uk/articles/3331_xenoestrogen.asp http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/actives/endocrin.htm http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/press/2003/2003-0721-BBC-genderoysters.htm http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/hormones/estrogen3.html http://www.wen.org.uk/health/PBCOM/envfac1.htm http://www.iutox.org/materials/iupac.asp http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3071549.stm http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/main.jhtml?xml=/connected/2005/06/15/ec fsperm15.xml http://www.iupac.org/publications/pac/special/0998/pdfs/106.pdf http://www.mindfully.org/Water/2003/Swordfish-Intersex-MediterraneanMar03.ht m http://www.parliament.uk/post/pn108.pdf http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/2653/ABSTRACT http://adc.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/85/3/268d http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/83002257/ABSTRACT -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jim Daly Verzonden: maandag 10 oktober 2005 20:45 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure > The danger also > lies in the concentration > of the stuff. It is FAR more dangerous in PPB range > than in PPM range. A few > parts per billion in the water of a river or lake > can cause the fish > population to spawn hermaphroditic off-spring. So > actually it is less > harmful in food plastics (high concentration in the > food) than the food > plastics waste in the environment. > > Axel Axel, Can you provide a reference (preferably available on line) for this? I'm finding it hard to accept something being more toxic in lower concentrations than higher. I have heard of such cases on the larger scale. Some poisons aren't effective in large doses because they cause vomiting, for example, but that's not what we're talking about here, are we? Jim __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Oct 11 06:42:17 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Oct 11 06:42:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: <128.6709d634.307c61c3@aol.com> Message-ID: Oxygen combines with nitrogen to form nitrox (or N2O). Upon inhalation, people display rather disturbed sense of humor. You can make "laughing gas" by heating the mineral nitrammite (NH4NO3) mixed with iron filings as a catalyst slowly in a reaction tube. Ammonium nitrate is a strong oxidizing agent and Fe-filings is an equally strong reducing agent. The mixture may become a mild explosive when heated to strongly. Don't do this at home OK? Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens FOSSILNUT@aol.com Verzonden: dinsdag 11 oktober 2005 2:31 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure Well I've heard it said that Oxygen in the PPB range is rapidly fatal, but at concentrations near 20% contributes to a slower form of death ........ called aging. Sorry, couldn't resist Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 10/10/2005 2:46:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sauktown1@yahoo.com writes: > Axel Axel, Can you provide a reference (preferably available on line) for this? I'm finding it hard to accept something being more toxic in lower concentrations than higher. I have heard of such cases on the larger scale. Some poisons aren't effective in large doses because they cause vomiting, for example, but that's not what we're talking about here, are we? Jim --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Oct 11 06:52:55 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Oct 11 06:52:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Continued: Please help me identify In-Reply-To: <434B4429.40706@verizon.net> Message-ID: I'm almost sure that oxalic acid won't etch calcite away... almost. Some of the organic acids are pretty strong! Acetic acid, citric acid and formic acid are even used to remove "kettle stone" (literal translation of the Dutch word "ketelsteen", which is the calcium and magnesium carbonate layer of stone that forms in boilers and water kettles. Oxalic acid is much weaker I believe. Test it on a worthless chunk before you fizzle away your treasures ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens DonH Verzonden: dinsdag 11 oktober 2005 6:49 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Continued: Please help me identify > I will try the HCl trick with some muraic acid I have sitting around here, > on a damaged > chunk. If it is a calcium material, and bubbles, will oxalic acid damage > calcium like > HCl? Ah, you have completed the circle. Oxalic acid + calcium carbonate = calcium oxalate and (a few other misc. things I'm too tired to calculate stoichiometrically right now... Gene? Axel? J. Bryan? anyone?) This calcium oxalate... is the inorganic and pure version... of the kidney stones! So you see the connection. This has been discussed on the list on the past, but one thing to look out for is cleaning iron-stained quartz with oxalic acid if there is also calcite or aragonite present; it can be re-deposited on your specimen as a hazy white coating. Hope this helps. BTW, I have no idea what you've got, beyond what others have suggested, but those photos are COOL! Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From afox at drizzle.com Tue Oct 11 08:44:44 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Tue Oct 11 08:44:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] FYI: Chernobyl Motorcyle Message-ID: Although interesting, the Chernobyl motorcycle tour story is a fraud, sort of. http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2004/05/fraud-exposed-and-true-thing.asp http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/permalink/chernobyl_trip/ However, should you want to visit Chernobyl first-hand, as with anything in the former Soviet Union, it can be arranged for enough money: http://www.ukrcam.com/tour/tour_3.html a. -- afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox "Pluralitas non est ponda sine neccesitate" "Plurality should not be posited without necessity" -- William of Ockham (1285 - 1349 AD) From albalmer at att.net Tue Oct 11 08:47:41 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Oct 11 08:47:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <434BDE9D.5020101@att.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > If you please, Jim. > I didn't read them all but the Net is flooded with information about this > subject. The effect was initially discovered by a female Spanish doctor but > I failed to look up her name. > You really should read them all. After all, the web is flooded with information about everything, and much of that information is untrue, or deliberately reported to further someone's agenda. I checked a few (see below), avoiding those that obviously had an ax to grind, and found no support whatsoever for your statement that "It is FAR more dangerous in PPB range than in PPM range." I don't know where you heard that, but such a statement should cause you to question the source very closely. This is another environmental factor with probably bad effects in some circumstances, but no reputable scientist or scientific reporter seems to be panicking about it. I suggest that you pay more attention to sources like New Scientist and university studies and less attention to sources like "Green Left Weekly" and "Lovearth Network." > Axel > > http://www.communities-against-toxics.org.uk/PDF/ToxCat%20Vol%202%20No%202.p > df page 3 > http://www.iconmag.co.uk/page.php?n=212 > http://www.ping.be/~ping5859/Eng/ChlorineHorm.html > http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/1994/142/142p13.htm > http://www.toxics.net/genderbenderscausespermburnout.htm > http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2493 Seems to have no reference to the anomalous dilution phenomenon, and the study is uncertain whether the effect of the chemicals is question is positive or negative. > http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/biochemistry/oldweb/staff/jh/itoxic.html No solid information, says "The range and extent of their toxicity is still uncertain. In particular, their toxicity at low concentrations remains controversial." > http://www.iupac.org/publications/pac/special/0998/jost.html > http://www.kindredspirit.co.uk/articles/3331_xenoestrogen.asp > http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/actives/endocrin.htm Contains a series of maybe's: "potential endocrine disruptors", "additional pesticides which might be endocrine disruptors", "it is not known whether their reproductive effects are actually the consequence of endocrine disruption". In the remainder of the article, dosage figures imply (but do not state explicitly) that the normal rules apply - more toxin is worse than less toxin. > http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/press/2003/2003-0721-BBC-genderoysters.htm > http://www.anapsid.org/cnd/hormones/estrogen3.html > http://www.wen.org.uk/health/PBCOM/envfac1.htm > http://www.iutox.org/materials/iupac.asp > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3071549.stm > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/main.jhtml?xml=/connected/2005/06/15/ec > fsperm15.xml > http://www.iupac.org/publications/pac/special/0998/pdfs/106.pdf > http://www.mindfully.org/Water/2003/Swordfish-Intersex-MediterraneanMar03.ht > m > http://www.parliament.uk/post/pn108.pdf > http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/2653/ABSTRACT No mention of an anomalous dosing reaction. Also concludes that the chemicals in question have both good and bad effects. > http://adc.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/85/3/268d > http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/83002257/ABSTRACT > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jim Daly > Verzonden: maandag 10 oktober 2005 20:45 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor > Pressure > > > > > >>The danger also >>lies in the concentration >>of the stuff. It is FAR more dangerous in PPB range >>than in PPM range. A few >>parts per billion in the water of a river or lake >>can cause the fish >>population to spawn hermaphroditic off-spring. So >>actually it is less >>harmful in food plastics (high concentration in the >>food) than the food >>plastics waste in the environment. >> >>Axel > > Axel, > Can you provide a reference (preferably available on > line) for this? I'm finding it hard to accept > something being more toxic in lower concentrations > than higher. > I have heard of such cases on the larger scale. Some > poisons aren't effective in large doses because they > cause vomiting, for example, but that's not what we're > talking about here, are we? > Jim > > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Oct 11 08:59:36 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Oct 11 09:01:03 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] FYI: Chernobyl Motorcyle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <434BE168.1070501@tenforward.com> Hi Aaron, Thanks for the post... good info (I'd enjoyed reading Elena's story). And Gaiman huh, who'd a thunk. Very cool!!! Bring on Muth, Pratt, Wagner, Sienkiewicz, and all by himself... Miller! John Aaron Fox wrote: >Although interesting, the Chernobyl motorcycle tour story is a fraud, sort >of. > >http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2004/05/fraud-exposed-and-true-thing.asp >http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/permalink/chernobyl_trip/ > >However, should you want to visit Chernobyl first-hand, as with anything >in the former Soviet Union, it can be arranged for enough money: >http://www.ukrcam.com/tour/tour_3.html > >a. > > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Oct 11 11:01:56 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Oct 11 11:01:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: <434BDE9D.5020101@att.net> Message-ID: Oh well, I was merely trying to demonstrate the ample supply of related topics. >and found no >support whatsoever for your statement that "It is FAR more dangerous in >PPB range than in PPM range." I don't know where you heard that, but >such a statement should cause you to question the source very closely. Then you have not read hem all... or thourougly ;-))))) What causes the real danger is this: Any toxic substance has a maximum upper concentration limit that is regarded as safe by the authorities. Now, 10 different but similar pesticides that are in your environment, each at just under the upper concentration limit , will together act as one pesticide at 10 times the maximum allowed concentration. Xeno-oestrogens or oestrogen-mimics pose the additional threath that they all act the same way. They invoke the same health problems and are therefore to be seen as a whole, not as a series of safely diluted chemicals. >This is another environmental factor with probably bad effects in some >circumstances, but no reputable scientist or scientific reporter seems >to be panicking about it. True. They should, nevertheless. If we all should stop making cars and driving them, the world would be a lot cleaner but most of us would die within a few months because of the famine this would cause. Plastics need softeners and anti-oxidants... dispose of them and you dispose of an industry that feeds millions of people. There is such a thing as politics in science. One bad call and you're called irresponsible... next, your grants go out the window. >I suggest that you pay more attention to sources like New Scientist and >university studies and less attention to sources like "Green Left >Weekly" and "Lovearth Network." Rest assured that I do ;-))) Axel From albalmer at att.net Tue Oct 11 11:12:11 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Oct 11 11:12:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <434C007B.7000607@att.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > Oh well, I was merely trying to demonstrate the ample supply of related > topics. > > >>and found no >>support whatsoever for your statement that "It is FAR more dangerous in >>PPB range than in PPM range." I don't know where you heard that, but >>such a statement should cause you to question the source very closely. > > > Then you have not read hem all... or thourougly ;-))))) Yes, I specified that, as did you. Please specify one citation from a reputable source which says that. By "reputable", I mean scientifically reputable, not the "Lovearth" society. The one reference to dosage I found did not mention any such reversal of normal expectations, and in fact said that toxicity at low concentrations was questionable. If you can't recall the source for this claim, just say so, and we'll drop the matter. From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Oct 11 14:24:21 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Oct 11 14:24:18 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: <434C007B.7000607@att.net> Message-ID: The source for this claim was a broadcast on BBC2 some 2 years ago. I think it was Horizon. Now, I repeated what was said there and acquired knowledge from reading quite some serious articles to the best of my ability. I don't have the time nor do I feel the need to defend the obvious. If everybody who joines a discussion on a public list should quote a source for his statements then the list is no longer a discussion list but an academic forum. Everybody is responsible for what he claims and for what he beliefs to be true of the claims of others. Some people will close their eyes for the reality and dangers of pollution as long as absolute proof hasn't been delivered that there really IS a threat. If people like that are in power, their are likely to close the eyes of every living being on this planet in the long run. Take this into account: If I would have asked the American government permission to release a million tons of carbondioxide into the atmosphere, in say the Mid West, to test the effect on the climate... would I have gotten it 10 years ago? I don't think so. The official standpoint nevertheless was clear that there was no proven effect of carbondioxide release on global climate. It is indeed as you said... a matter of agendas. But that sword cuts both ways my friend ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Al Balmer Verzonden: dinsdag 11 oktober 2005 20:12 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure Axel Emmermann wrote: > Oh well, I was merely trying to demonstrate the ample supply of related > topics. > > >>and found no >>support whatsoever for your statement that "It is FAR more dangerous in >>PPB range than in PPM range." I don't know where you heard that, but >>such a statement should cause you to question the source very closely. > > > Then you have not read hem all... or thourougly ;-))))) Yes, I specified that, as did you. Please specify one citation from a reputable source which says that. By "reputable", I mean scientifically reputable, not the "Lovearth" society. The one reference to dosage I found did not mention any such reversal of normal expectations, and in fact said that toxicity at low concentrations was questionable. If you can't recall the source for this claim, just say so, and we'll drop the matter. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Oct 11 15:29:17 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Oct 11 15:29:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] FYI: Chernobyl Motorcyle Message-ID: <101120052229.16702.434C3CBD0001819D0000413E216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear Rockhounds List, An "FYI" on this somewhat off-topic topic, a very good book (fiction, but based on factual info), is Martin Cruz Smith's latest novel, "Wolves Eat Dogs", which about about Chernobyl and what things are presently like in the "zone of exclusion" around it. Smith (whose best known book was "Gorky Park") received permission to visit the "forbidden zone" in researching this book. All of MCS's novels are very good--I'll give them my recommendation! cheers, Pete Modreski P.S., another of my favorite novels by M.C. Smith, is "Stallion Gate", another somewhat-historical fiction, based around the testing of the first atomic bomb at White Sands. Stallion Gate is a real place, the north and "back" entrance to White Sands Missile Range, and you pass it on the way to a well-known mineral locality, Bingham, N.M., and the Blanchard mine area! -------------- Original message from Aaron Fox : -------------- > Although interesting, the Chernobyl motorcycle tour story is a fraud, sort > of. > > http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2004/05/fraud-exposed-and-true-thing.asp > http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/permalink/chernobyl_trip/ > > However, should you want to visit Chernobyl first-hand, as with anything > in the former Soviet Union, it can be arranged for enough money: > http://www.ukrcam.com/tour/tour_3.html > > a. > > -- > afox at drizzle dot com || http://www.drizzle.com/~afox > "Pluralitas non est ponda sine neccesitate" > "Plurality should not be posited without necessity" > -- William of Ockham (1285 - 1349 AD) > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Tue Oct 11 15:59:12 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Oct 11 15:59:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <434C43C0.3040303@att.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > The source for this claim was a broadcast on BBC2 some 2 years ago. I think > it was Horizon. > > Now, I repeated what was said there and acquired knowledge from reading > quite some serious articles to the best of my ability. > I don't have the time nor do I feel the need to defend the obvious. OK, if you think it "obvious" that any toxin is "FAR more dangerous in PPB range than in PPM range", in the face of both conventional scientific thinking and common sense, there's obviously no point in continuing the discussion. > If > everybody who joines a discussion on a public list should quote a source for > his statements then the list is no longer a discussion list but an academic > forum. Nonsense. This list, in particular, caters to people who have an understanding of, and appreciation for, the hard science of physical phenomena and facts about light, materials, and processes. It is not unreasonable to expect folks making statements which are scientific-sounding but contrary to other knowledge and experience to be able to back them up. When they can't do so, I must conclude that there was no actual basis for the claim. If you find me making outrageous-sounding claims, please challenge them. I'll do the research and either provide a cite or admit I mis-remembered. In any case, this discussion is over, as far as I'm concerned. You may have the last word, if you want. From tam2819 at cox.net Tue Oct 11 18:36:26 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Tue Oct 11 18:36:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report Message-ID: This appeared on another list I participate in. I thought it so wonderful and want to share it with other avid rockhounds. Enjoy, Terrie > From kahako at verizon.net Tue Oct 11 18:53:52 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Oct 11 18:53:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]{ADMIN} Please Stop. haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: <434C43C0.3040303@att.net> References: <434C43C0.3040303@att.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051011154903.0261d788@incoming.verizon.net> Please stop this conversation on the List as it seems to be becoming testy. If you must continue, please do it off-list. (You won't believe this, but I just came in from mowing the yard!) Aloha, Kitty From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Oct 11 19:03:19 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Oct 11 19:00:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <434C6EE7.70208@verizon.net> Teresa Masters wrote: >> Holy cow. Makes every field trip in my life not worth mentioning! Don From tam2819 at cox.net Tue Oct 11 19:51:02 2005 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Tue Oct 11 19:51:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report In-Reply-To: <434C6EE7.70208@verizon.net> References: <434C6EE7.70208@verizon.net> Message-ID: Don, Not according to what I have read over the years. Look what some planning and friendship can do. I know that can happen here. Terrie From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Oct 11 19:57:41 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Oct 11 19:57:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report References: Message-ID: <01d201c5ced8$b66ece20$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Sounds like they needed a spare vehicle just for parts! I consider myself adventurous, but that is more than I'd be willing to do to get a few mineral specimens. The rest of my family would prefer the wildlife over the minerals. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teresa Masters" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 9:36 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report > This appeared on another list I participate in. I thought it so wonderful > and want to share it with other avid rockhounds. > Enjoy, > Terrie > >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Oct 11 20:08:03 2005 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Oct 11 20:07:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]{ADMIN} Please Stop. haz minerals materials --Mercury Vapor Pressure References: <434C43C0.3040303@att.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20051011154903.0261d788@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <000501c5ceda$29eda640$b9fab3d1@TheBlackAdder> I find it interesting and informative. There is always the DELETE key you know. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds]{ADMIN} Please Stop. haz minerals materials --Mercury Vapor Pressure Please stop this conversation on the List as it seems to be becoming testy. If you must continue, please do it off-list. (You won't believe this, but I just came in from mowing the yard!) Aloha, Kitty _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From volgems at icx.net Tue Oct 11 20:16:14 2005 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Tue Oct 11 20:16:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]{ADMIN} Please Stop. haz minerals materials --Mercury Vapor Pressure Message-ID: <22791289.1129086975126.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> The horse is dead ... long live the horse! If you can't beat 'em, join 'emQ! John -----Original Message----- From: Erich Kern Sent: Oct 11, 2005 11:08 PM To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds]{ADMIN} Please Stop. haz minerals materials --Mercury Vapor Pressure I find it interesting and informative. There is always the DELETE key you know. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds]{ADMIN} Please Stop. haz minerals materials --Mercury Vapor Pressure Please stop this conversation on the List as it seems to be becoming testy. If you must continue, please do it off-list. (You won't believe this, but I just came in from mowing the yard!) Aloha, Kitty _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Oct 11 20:35:55 2005 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Oct 11 20:35:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- Mercury Vapor Pressure References: <434C43C0.3040303@att.net> Message-ID: <002401c5cede$0ec74890$b9fab3d1@TheBlackAdder> Axel Emmermann wrote: > The source for this claim was a broadcast on BBC2 some 2 years ago. I think > it was Horizon. > > Now, I repeated what was said there and acquired knowledge from reading > quite some serious articles to the best of my ability. > I don't have the time nor do I feel the need to defend the obvious. > If everybody who joines a discussion on a public list should quote a source for > his statements then the list is no longer a discussion list but an academic > forum. Of course you don't have to back up your assertions with data or references, but then, it all depends on whether you want to be taken seriously or not. Personally, I've seen so many politically motivated "science" pieces on the BBC and in the states on PBS, I don't take them seriously any more. Especially if they're thumping the drum on global warming by computer modeling. That said, a few programmes are very good. Claiming increased toxicity at much lower levels of concentration is neither obvious or common. Uncommon claims therefore require more rigorous proof, or documentation or at the least, reference to a recognised study. But if it doesn't matter to you if anyone takes this seriously, then leave it as it is. Best Regards, Erich Kern From kahako at verizon.net Tue Oct 11 20:31:09 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Oct 11 20:46:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds]{ADMIN} Please Stop. haz minerals materials --Mercury Vapor Pressure In-Reply-To: <000501c5ceda$29eda640$b9fab3d1@TheBlackAdder> References: <434C43C0.3040303@att.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20051011154903.0261d788@incoming.verizon.net> <000501c5ceda$29eda640$b9fab3d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051011171809.0260d750@incoming.verizon.net> It's not the subject matter so much at the fact that it was becoming an argument with a bit of personal criticism. I'm asking for a stop to rancor. Any further comments...please contact me off-list. Aloha, Kitty At 05:08 PM 10/11/2005, Erich Kern wrote: >I find it interesting and informative. There is always the DELETE key you >know. > >Erich From smtravis at plateautel.net Tue Oct 11 21:40:14 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Tue Oct 11 21:42:19 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tri state Lead/Field trip to TX Message-ID: <023f01c5cee7$0d0fbe70$5f87633f@marilyn> Hello all. Just got back from a fantastic 4 days digging all types of agate and jaspers in Texas. More on that later (Talk about your great field trip report). The problem with lead in the Tri State atea is lead dust from the "chat' piles being absorbed in the populations & environments food/ blood. The tri State area is a Huge cleanup site for the state of KS I dont Know about OK or MO as i worked for the Env. Sect State of KS the rivers and streams are all very acid from the sulfides in the galina and sphalerite. so no fish reproduction i.e. no fish and The population especially the children have higher than normal blood lead levels. By the way the higher blood levels in children dosen't noticably shorten life but definitly does lower IQ and mental maturity. If you want to do some research contact the KS Bureau of Environmental Remediation and ask about the SE KS lead cleanup. I'm sure there are lots of reports on the clean up. Any way about the Field trip first thanks for all the advise and leads on where to go 4 days is not enough to even scratch the surface of locations in SW TX however here is a list of Items I collected Black Plume, Red Plume, Red and Black Plume, Gold Plume, and Pom Pom, Red moss, green moss, gold moss, jaspers of red yellow orange and mixed color, calcite, fortification agates, Geodes, Malacite, Labradorite, Opal, Iris agate (Purchased) may have collected some but not enough time to cut any yet. Needless to say it was a great trip. Oh yea I procured a Agate shell that is spherules on the outside with a fill of calcium carbonate mud inside i.e. a Hollow agate. By disolving out the calcium carbonate you get a incredible hollow shell of agate spheres. It came from the Terlingua creek are although when I walked it I found none but they are there acording to the locals. any ideas/ I'll send pictures of a hollow one if anyone wants to offer formation theroy's. Want to know where I went? talk to me off line or if enough respond I'll write more specifics. Keep on Rockin Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 11 23:49:53 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Tue Oct 11 23:49:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- homeopathy References: <434C43C0.3040303@att.net> <002401c5cede$0ec74890$b9fab3d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <000f01c5cef9$278540b0$78f1edc1@mpc1> > Claiming increased toxicity at much lower levels of concentration is > neither obvious > or common. What about homeopathy? Makes that claim all the time and millions of people take that seriously without any serious scientific backup at all ... Anyway, aren't we supposed to be a forum for mineral collecting? That subject rarely seems to raise the traffic that all these side issues generate. Ok, as someone pointed out there's always the delete key, but why should I have to stoop to that? And how can I be sure I am not missing something if I delete on the basis of a subject line alone? Actually, the best way out of this dilemma is the unsubscribe command. Mick From volgems at icx.net Wed Oct 12 04:03:45 2005 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Wed Oct 12 04:03:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- homeopathy Message-ID: <17621777.1129115026368.JavaMail.root@mswamui-blood.atl.sa.earthlink.net> The horse is dead ... long live the horse! -----Original Message----- From: Mick Cooper Sent: Oct 12, 2005 2:49 AM To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals materials -- homeopathy > Claiming increased toxicity at much lower levels of concentration is > neither obvious > or common. What about homeopathy? Makes that claim all the time and millions of people take that seriously without any serious scientific backup at all ... Anyway, aren't we supposed to be a forum for mineral collecting? That subject rarely seems to raise the traffic that all these side issues generate. Ok, as someone pointed out there's always the delete key, but why should I have to stoop to that? And how can I be sure I am not missing something if I delete on the basis of a subject line alone? Actually, the best way out of this dilemma is the unsubscribe command. Mick _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jr50wv at yahoo.com Wed Oct 12 05:09:25 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Wed Oct 12 05:09:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of manners vrs importance of topic Message-ID: <20051012120925.2002.qmail@web34612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> List: I'm disappointed by Al Balmer's lack of manners in his discussion of the danger of mercury. We've established that actual metallic mercury is elusive, long-lived, and not particularly dangerous when compared to mercury-containing compounds more likely to be picked up by the body. When discussing these issues there is no excuse for arrogance or condescending tones, particularly when exchanging views with a long-time and valued member of the listserve! Al, anyone who has followed this listserve for more than a few weeks knows that Axel knows whereof he speaks when it comes to mineralogy and geology, and a memory fart on his part is no excuse for your behavior. When I think back to complaints about off-topic discussions the more recent discussion about mercury makes me long for a long post about the dangers of overweight pumpkins! Al, think about what you're saying before it comes out of your mouth - would you have said those words in a face-to-face meeting, say, at a rock club, to a fellow member you had known for years? Moderators, please consider removing Al's unconsidered and rude communiques so that they won't exist forever in the archives as a monument to ill-considered email posting. Thanks, JR __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From FOSSILNUT at aol.com Wed Oct 12 06:20:00 2005 From: FOSSILNUT at aol.com (FOSSILNUT@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 12 06:21:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report Message-ID: <3FD5912E.368D8E80.02180873@aol.com> Holy Cow. These folks had more experiences in one trip than some collectors have in a lifetime Gene Hartstein Newark, DE In a message dated 10/11/2005 9:36:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Teresa Masters writes: >This appeared on another list I participate in. I thought it so >wonderful and want to share it with other avid rockhounds. >Enjoy, >Terrie > >> > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tjokela at execulink.com Wed Oct 12 08:15:43 2005 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Wed Oct 12 08:15:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report References: Message-ID: <001301c5cf3f$d0e5af50$6400a8c0@Junior> Amazing to see that, by and large, Africa is still Africa! I loved that, Terrie, thanks for passing it along. Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teresa Masters" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" ; ; Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 9:36 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report > This appeared on another list I participate in. I thought it so wonderful > and want to share it with other avid rockhounds. > Enjoy, > Terrie > >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From volgems at icx.net Mon Oct 10 11:52:21 2005 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Wed Oct 12 09:19:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Knoxville, Tennessee show this weekend Message-ID: <33272187.1128970341447.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> List members! On behalf of Knoxville Gems and Mineral Society, http://www.korrnet.org/kgms/ I would like to invite members of the list to attend KGMS's 15th Annual Gem, Mineral and Jewelry Show to be held October 14-16, in Knoxville, Tennessee. We will have over 20 dealers from around the US carrying a wide assortment of minerals, fossils, jewelry, tools and lapidary supplies, and related gift items. For a complete list of our dealers, please visit our 2005 show site at http://www.korrnet.org/kgms/show-05.htm If you would like to see what you missed at an earlier show, please visit http://www.korrnet.org/kgms/show99/ This page has several photos from prior shows! Show dates: October 14-16, 2003 Show hours: Friday, October 14 10:00am-6:00pm Saturday, October 15 10:00am-6:00pm Sunday, October 16 11:00am-5:00pm Admission: Adults $3.00 Weekend pass $5.00 Children under 12 Free Location: Kerbela Temple (865) 573-1901 315 Mimosa Avenue Knoxville, Tennessee We're only about 45 minutes from the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, Pigeon Forge and Dollywood! The fall colors are at a peak for couple of weeks! We hope to see you in Knoxville for the show! Need more information? Feel free to contact me at: volgems@icx.net with any questions you may have. John Teague Knoxville Gem and Mineral Society Knoxville, Tennessee From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Oct 12 10:21:04 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Oct 12 10:21:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report In-Reply-To: <3FD5912E.368D8E80.02180873@aol.com> Message-ID: Yup, that was a real "WHATATRIP"!! Glenn From: FOSSILNUT@aol.com Holy Cow. These folks had more experiences in one trip than some collectors have in a lifetime Gene Hartstein Newark, DE   http://reports.overland.co.za/Johan_Snyman/Namibia_Dagboek.html ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From jonee at epix.net Wed Oct 12 17:14:11 2005 From: jonee at epix.net (E.L. Jones) Date: Wed Oct 12 17:14:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of manners vrs importance of topic In-Reply-To: <20051012120925.2002.qmail@web34612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051012120925.2002.qmail@web34612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <434DA6D3.1000504@epix.net> J. R. Hodel wrote: >Moderators, please consider removing Al's unconsidered >and rude communiques so that they won't exist forever >in the archives as a monument to ill-considered email posting. > Here Here!!! I agree! E L Jones From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Oct 12 17:35:15 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Oct 12 17:32:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of manners vrs importance of topic References: <20051012120925.2002.qmail@web34612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <434DA6D3.1000504@epix.net> Message-ID: <000701c5cf8d$fb670be0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Are you all suggesting he can no longer post anything? I do not agree. I think his postings were well considered. He should have stopped after he made his points and not beat a dead horse, but I see nothing to be gained by removing his posts. So he disagrees with a long time poster, so what. ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.L. Jones" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lack of manners vrs importance of topic > J. R. Hodel wrote: > > >Moderators, please consider removing Al's unconsidered > >and rude communiques so that they won't exist forever > >in the archives as a monument to ill-considered email posting. > > > > Here Here!!! I agree! > > E L Jones > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Oct 12 17:46:51 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Oct 12 17:48:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Lack of manners vrs importance of topic References: <20051012120925.2002.qmail@web34612.mail.mud.yahoo.com><434DA6D3.1000504@epix.net> <000701c5cf8d$fb670be0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <001e01c5cf8f$9bd18640$0100a8c0@warren> C'mon you guys, an ALL sides, let it lie! I/We don't want to have to turn on moderation again, but we will if this particular topic, at the very least for the violators. Stick to rocks not personal politics! Julie From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Oct 12 17:50:47 2005 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Oct 12 17:52:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [ADMIN] Lack of manners vrs importance of topic Message-ID: <002901c5cf90$2815ba40$0100a8c0@warren> Shall we try English? Sorry, I was in a hurry. Please, no personal politics on the list. We will moderate if we have to (which is a pain both for us AND for you) and remove people from the list who insist on bringing or encouraging personal list arguments. If you have a personal problem with what someone has posted, please contact that person or one of the list administrators. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:46 PM Subject: [ADMIN] Lack of manners vrs importance of topic > C'mon you guys, an ALL sides, let it lie! > > I/We don't want to have to turn on moderation again, but we will if this > particular topic, at the very least for the violators. > > Stick to rocks not personal politics! > > Julie > From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 18:13:40 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Oct 12 18:13:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Knoxville, Tennessee show this weekend In-Reply-To: <33272187.1128970341447.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <33272187.1128970341447.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Dam it!! I"m leaving for IBMA that weekend -- and IBMA is in Nashville!!! I can't get there in time under any curcumstances. Since IBMA moved from Louisville to Nashville I'm not gonna see the fossil beds either. My two hobbies - rocks and bluegrass music -- are in conflict and my bank account is losing. On 10/10/05, John Teague wrote: > List members! > > On behalf of Knoxville Gems and Mineral Society, > http://www.korrnet.org/kgms/ > I would like to invite members of the list to attend > KGMS's 15th Annual Gem, Mineral and Jewelry Show to > be held October 14-16, in Knoxville, Tennessee. We > will have over 20 dealers from around the US carrying > a wide assortment of minerals, fossils, jewelry, tools > and lapidary supplies, and related gift items. For a > complete list of our dealers, please visit our 2005 > show site at > http://www.korrnet.org/kgms/show-05.htm > > If you would like to see what you missed at an > earlier show, please visit > http://www.korrnet.org/kgms/show99/ > This page has several photos from prior shows! > > Show dates: October 14-16, 2003 > > Show hours: Friday, October 14 10:00am-6:00pm > Saturday, October 15 10:00am-6:00pm > Sunday, October 16 11:00am-5:00pm > > Admission: Adults $3.00 > Weekend pass $5.00 > Children under 12 Free > > Location: Kerbela Temple (865) 573-1901 > 315 Mimosa Avenue > Knoxville, Tennessee > > We're only about 45 minutes from the Great Smoky Mountains > National Park, Pigeon Forge and Dollywood! The fall > colors are at a peak for couple of weeks! We hope to see you > in Knoxville for the show! > > Need more information? Feel free to contact me at: > volgems@icx.net > with any questions you may have. > > John Teague > Knoxville Gem and Mineral Society > Knoxville, Tennessee > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 18:38:34 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Oct 12 18:38:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Any idea what the exchange rate is. Prices like N$40 per person for a campsite make it sound expensive -- but I suspect I could camp for a week on what a KOA in Petaluma charges. Last I went through there it US $39 per night. For 7 nights in Nashville it's about $250 USD. Grant On 10/11/05, Teresa Masters wrote: > This appeared on another list I participate in. I thought it so > wonderful and want to share it with other avid rockhounds. > Enjoy, > Terrie > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Oct 12 19:05:08 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Oct 12 19:04:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report References: Message-ID: <801601c5cf9a$897ed0f0$6602a8c0@remains> 40 Namibia Dollar = 6.08374 US Dollar 40 US Dollar (USD) = 262.996 Namibia Dollar (NAD) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report > Any idea what the exchange rate is. Prices like N$40 per person for a > campsite make it sound expensive -- but I suspect I could camp for a > week on what a KOA in Petaluma charges. Last I went through there it > US $39 per night. For 7 nights in Nashville it's about $250 USD. > > Grant > > On 10/11/05, Teresa Masters wrote: >> This appeared on another list I participate in. I thought it so >> wonderful and want to share it with other avid rockhounds. >> Enjoy, >> Terrie >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Oct 12 21:16:11 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Oct 12 21:16:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report In-Reply-To: <801601c5cf9a$897ed0f0$6602a8c0@remains> References: <801601c5cf9a$897ed0f0$6602a8c0@remains> Message-ID: Thanks. I'm surprised they charge so much for "unimproved" camping. The exchange rate for camping in the 'dirt road' areas is probably a minor part of the cost -- buying tires and fixing flats was the biggie, but since I'm an RV'er I was curious. Grant On 10/12/05, Michael Schmidt wrote: > 40 Namibia Dollar = 6.08374 US Dollar > 40 US Dollar (USD) = 262.996 Namibia Dollar (NAD) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Grant Johnston" From jonee at epix.net Wed Oct 12 22:12:35 2005 From: jonee at epix.net (E.L. Jones) Date: Wed Oct 12 22:12:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of manners vrs importance of topic In-Reply-To: <434DA6D3.1000504@epix.net> References: <20051012120925.2002.qmail@web34612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <434DA6D3.1000504@epix.net> Message-ID: <434DECC3.5020904@epix.net> Appologies for the intended off list post..after 5 years on the list one would thinkI could remember to check who my reply is actually going to. Elton From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Oct 13 03:06:14 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Oct 13 03:06:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lack of manners vrs importance of topic In-Reply-To: <20051012120925.2002.qmail@web34612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey people, do like I do and keep it lighthearted ;-))) Thanks for coming to the rescue of sorry old me but I'd like to say the following, if you'll allow me: Al may have a point in what he says. He may have said it the wrong way or with less tact than would have been desireable, but still he's not entirely wrong. I have stated many times before that I'm NOT a scientist. I consider myself an educated and intelligent person but my views and standpoints are perhaps not always built on solid scientific evidence. I do, however, rarely talk nonsense ;-))) People on the list should know by know that I am quite "outspoken" in my opinions. Most of the time I use the term "I think that" but on occasion I may forget... no harm done I'm not mad at Al, nor am I irritated or cross or whatever negative emotion is expected of one under the given circonstances. Some people cannot understand that there is indeed a difference between spoken discussions and discussions in writing. There is a Dutch saying that says "Paper is patient"... The spoken words are volatile and easy forgotten but wat you write may come back to haunt you. BTW: I especially liked the "memory fart". Is that what I think it is? Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J. R. Hodel Verzonden: woensdag 12 oktober 2005 14:09 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Lack of manners vrs importance of topic List: I'm disappointed by Al Balmer's lack of manners in his discussion of the danger of mercury. We've established that actual metallic mercury is elusive, long-lived, and not particularly dangerous when compared to mercury-containing compounds more likely to be picked up by the body. When discussing these issues there is no excuse for arrogance or condescending tones, particularly when exchanging views with a long-time and valued member of the listserve! Al, anyone who has followed this listserve for more than a few weeks knows that Axel knows whereof he speaks when it comes to mineralogy and geology, and a memory fart on his part is no excuse for your behavior. When I think back to complaints about off-topic discussions the more recent discussion about mercury makes me long for a long post about the dangers of overweight pumpkins! Al, think about what you're saying before it comes out of your mouth - would you have said those words in a face-to-face meeting, say, at a rock club, to a fellow member you had known for years? Moderators, please consider removing Al's unconsidered and rude communiques so that they won't exist forever in the archives as a monument to ill-considered email posting. Thanks, JR __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Oct 13 07:48:36 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Oct 13 07:47:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Wonderful Field Trip Report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <434E73C4.3080206@tenforward.com> Hi Terrie, Sorry it's taken me so long to respond, but what a wonderful read! Thank you so much for sending this link to the list. With all the talking this list is capable of, I sure wish there were more reports of fun collecting adventures! I'm curious, are postings of this quality common on this other list? If so, I'd sure like to know how to sign up. Thanks again. All the very best, John Teresa Masters wrote: > This appeared on another list I participate in. I thought it so > wonderful and want to share it with other avid rockhounds. > Enjoy, > Terrie > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Oct 13 13:51:10 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Oct 13 13:51:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass Message-ID: <101320052051.3084.434EC8BE0009084200000C0C216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi, Kreigh & all the list, Just an afterthought, browsing some of these past posts on this topic. Forgive me if I'm repeating anything already written, but Kreigh, you wrote on 10/7, <<: -------------- > The vapor pressure of Mercury is unusually low. This makes it ideal for > use in manometers. At 25C water has a vapor pressure of about 3.1691 > kPa, but Mercury is only 0.2460. > > Hot Mercury is a very different beast and most vapor pressure tables > have a second entry for Mercury above 129C. Don't leave your Mercury > containing rocks in sunlight. > > BTW, Iodine is one of the few common substances that has a lower vapor > pressure than Mercury -- it is 0.1889 kPa. > > So if you spill some Mercury, simply clean it up. Use some clean copper > to sponge up the little balls you can't pick up with paper and a small > brush. I have to agree with Rik on this one. > > Kreigh > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Thu Oct 13 14:21:56 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Oct 13 14:22:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass In-Reply-To: <101320052051.3084.434EC8BE0009084200000C0C216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <101320052051.3084.434EC8BE0009084200000C0C216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <434ECFF4.30808@att.net> pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > << 10 milligrams per cubic meter of air. The listed occupational > exposure limit is 0.05 milligram per cubic meter of air. > > I thought it would of interest to compute, whether mercury at room > temperature would have sufficient vapor pressure to exceed either of > these levels in a closed container (whether a glass bottle or a > non-ventilated room). Note that the "immediate danger" level is 200 > times the occupational exposure level. One can do this calculation > from the ideal gas law. The result for 25C = 298 K, is that, for a > vapor pressure of 0.00185 torr, (I had to do this calculation several > times to make sure I got it right), the air would countain 20 > milligrams of mercury per cubic meter; twice the "danger level", and > 400 times the occupational exposure level. So, breathing any mercury > vapor, even at room temperature, that has had the opportunity to > accumulate in a non-ventilated area, is definitely not recommended. > Very interesting. Thanks for doing the calculation. For a 140 cubic meter room, it would take only 3.5 mg to reach the hazardous level - not a very big drop. Of course, that would be at equilibrium. Can you calculate how long it would take to evaporate that much? You'd have to make some assumption about surface area, I suppose. From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Oct 13 15:26:36 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Oct 13 15:26:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass In-Reply-To: <101320052051.3084.434EC8BE0009084200000C0C216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <101320052051.3084.434EC8BE0009084200000C0C216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Does anybody on this list speak English :-))) On 10/13/05, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > Hi, Kreigh & all the list, >vapor pressure of mercury at 25C is about 0.00185 torr (another source I have says 0.0017 torr, but I'll ignore that discrepancy), which is equal to 0.246 Pascal (Pa), not kilopascals. So comparing it to water and iodine in the same units (kPa), the vapor pressure of mercury is 0.000246 kPa, not 0.2460. > From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Oct 13 15:34:48 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Oct 13 15:34:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass Message-ID: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> ... would require a lot of assumptions, probably... I think it's beyond my ability to do that calculation! (of how long it would take to evaporate to reach equilibrium). Of course, in any normal room, ventilation would remove most of the mercury vapor before it reached that level. But one can calculate, that the size of the 3.5 mg drop you refer to... but let's see, I get that it would be 7 mg for a 140 cubic meter room to reach the occupational exposure level, or 1400 mg (1.4 grams) for the immediate hazard level. Anyway, I get a cube of mercury 0.8 mm on an edge (I know mercury doesn't come in cubes, but I'm too lazy to use the formula for a sphere), for the lower (occupational) level, and 4.7 mm on an edge (a more substantial droplet) for the higher hazard level. Pete -------------- Original message from Al Balmer : -------------- > pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > > > <<> > 10 milligrams per cubic meter of air. The listed occupational > > exposure limit is 0.05 milligram per cubic meter of air. > > > > I thought it would of interest to compute, whether mercury at room > > temperature would have sufficient vapor pressure to exceed either of > > these levels in a closed container (whether a glass bottle or a > > non-ventilated room). Note that the "immediate danger" level is 200 > > times the occupational exposure level. One can do this calculation > > from the ideal gas law. The result for 25C = 298 K, is that, for a > > vapor pressure of 0.00185 torr, (I had to do this calculation several > > times to make sure I got it right), the air would countain 20 > > milligrams of mercury per cubic meter; twice the "danger level", and > > 400 times the occupational exposure level. So, breathing any mercury > > vapor, even at room temperature, that has had the opportunity to > > accumulate in a non-ventilated area, is definitely not recommended. > > > Very interesting. Thanks for doing the calculation. For a 140 cubic > meter room, it would take only 3.5 mg to reach the hazardous level - not > a very big drop. Of course, that would be at equilibrium. Can you > calculate how long it would take to evaporate that much? You'd have to > make some assumption about surface area, I suppose. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From volgems at icx.net Thu Oct 13 17:12:26 2005 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Thu Oct 13 17:12:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass Message-ID: <13161167.1129248746842.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Thanks for the info ... John (1) -----Original Message----- From: pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Oct 13, 2005 6:34 PM To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass ... would require a lot of assumptions, probably... I think it's beyond my ability to do that calculation! (of how long it would take to evaporate to reach equilibrium). Of course, in any normal room, ventilation would remove most of the mercury vapor before it reached that level. But one can calculate, that the size of the 3.5 mg drop you refer to... but let's see, I get that it would be 7 mg for a 140 cubic meter room to reach the occupational exposure level, or 1400 mg (1.4 grams) for the immediate hazard level. Anyway, I get a cube of mercury 0.8 mm on an edge (I know mercury doesn't come in cubes, but I'm too lazy to use the formula for a sphere), for the lower (occupational) level, and 4.7 mm on an edge (a more substantial droplet) for the higher hazard level. Pete -------------- Original message from Al Balmer : -------------- > pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > > > <<> > 10 milligrams per cubic meter of air. The listed occupational > > exposure limit is 0.05 milligram per cubic meter of air. > > > > I thought it would of interest to compute, whether mercury at room > > temperature would have sufficient vapor pressure to exceed either of > > these levels in a closed container (whether a glass bottle or a > > non-ventilated room). Note that the "immediate danger" level is 200 > > times the occupational exposure level. One can do this calculation > > from the ideal gas law. The result for 25C = 298 K, is that, for a > > vapor pressure of 0.00185 torr, (I had to do this calculation several > > times to make sure I got it right), the air would countain 20 > > milligrams of mercury per cubic meter; twice the "danger level", and > > 400 times the occupational exposure level. So, breathing any mercury > > vapor, even at room temperature, that has had the opportunity to > > accumulate in a non-ventilated area, is definitely not recommended. > > > Very interesting. Thanks for doing the calculation. For a 140 cubic > meter room, it would take only 3.5 mg to reach the hazardous level - not > a very big drop. Of course, that would be at equilibrium. Can you > calculate how long it would take to evaporate that much? You'd have to > make some assumption about surface area, I suppose. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From volgems at icx.net Thu Oct 13 17:13:09 2005 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Thu Oct 13 17:13:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass Message-ID: <26957062.1129248789691.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Thanks for the info ... John (2) -----Original Message----- From: Al Balmer Sent: Oct 13, 2005 5:21 PM To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > << 10 milligrams per cubic meter of air. The listed occupational > exposure limit is 0.05 milligram per cubic meter of air. > > I thought it would of interest to compute, whether mercury at room > temperature would have sufficient vapor pressure to exceed either of > these levels in a closed container (whether a glass bottle or a > non-ventilated room). Note that the "immediate danger" level is 200 > times the occupational exposure level. One can do this calculation > from the ideal gas law. The result for 25C = 298 K, is that, for a > vapor pressure of 0.00185 torr, (I had to do this calculation several > times to make sure I got it right), the air would countain 20 > milligrams of mercury per cubic meter; twice the "danger level", and > 400 times the occupational exposure level. So, breathing any mercury > vapor, even at room temperature, that has had the opportunity to > accumulate in a non-ventilated area, is definitely not recommended. > Very interesting. Thanks for doing the calculation. For a 140 cubic meter room, it would take only 3.5 mg to reach the hazardous level - not a very big drop. Of course, that would be at equilibrium. Can you calculate how long it would take to evaporate that much? You'd have to make some assumption about surface area, I suppose. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From volgems at icx.net Thu Oct 13 17:14:47 2005 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Thu Oct 13 17:14:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass Message-ID: <33241033.1129248888016.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Thanks for the info ... John (3) -----Original Message----- From: pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Oct 13, 2005 4:51 PM To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass Hi, Kreigh & all the list, Just an afterthought, browsing some of these past posts on this topic. Forgive me if I'm repeating anything already written, but Kreigh, you wrote on 10/7, <<: -------------- > The vapor pressure of Mercury is unusually low. This makes it ideal for > use in manometers. At 25C water has a vapor pressure of about 3.1691 > kPa, but Mercury is only 0.2460. > > Hot Mercury is a very different beast and most vapor pressure tables > have a second entry for Mercury above 129C. Don't leave your Mercury > containing rocks in sunlight. > > BTW, Iodine is one of the few common substances that has a lower vapor > pressure than Mercury -- it is 0.1889 kPa. > > So if you spill some Mercury, simply clean it up. Use some clean copper > to sponge up the little balls you can't pick up with paper and a small > brush. I have to agree with Rik on this one. > > Kreigh > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jr50wv at yahoo.com Thu Oct 13 19:20:11 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Thu Oct 13 19:20:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Leaded glass Message-ID: <20051014022011.77114.qmail@web34615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: I'm venturing into nearly fobidden territory now, but I seem to recall that a study of leaded glass containers used to contain decanted wines and brandies would or could pose a health threat IF the liquids were kept in the decanter for a lengthy period. I don't recall enough to even guess how long the researchers let the wine/brandy sit in the leaded glass container before the dissolved lead level reached a hazardous level...and I've probably made it abundently clear that I'm not nearly as worried about lead in the environment as some...but there it is. I'm going upstairs right now to expose leaded glass to UV to see it glow, things that glow in the dark being some of my favorite things. I have some uranium glass that glows well, and lots of minerals from NJ that glow the most astonishing colors... I'll try hard to maintain a level head, folks, and I very much want to apologize if I've gone off too hard, Al!! JR __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ From albalmer at att.net Thu Oct 13 22:15:01 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Oct 13 22:15:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Leaded glass In-Reply-To: <20051014022011.77114.qmail@web34615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051014022011.77114.qmail@web34615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <434F3ED5.3020408@att.net> J. R. Hodel wrote: > Hi: > > I'm venturing into nearly fobidden territory now, but > I seem to recall that a study of leaded glass > containers used to contain decanted wines and brandies > would or could pose a health threat IF the liquids > were kept in the decanter for a lengthy period. > Here's a mention of the problem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_crystal Another reference says that it's the acid, so don't use that 24% lead crystal decanter for your vinegar or salad dressing, either! Searching for 'lead glass wine' in Google's scholar search tool give lots of scientific studies. For anyone not familiar with it, this is a good tool for mineralogical papers (back on topic!) Go to Google, click on the "more" link, then choose :scholar" on the page that comes up. > I don't recall enough to even guess how long the > researchers let the wine/brandy sit in the leaded > glass container before the dissolved lead level > reached a hazardous level...and I've probably made it > abundently clear that I'm not nearly as worried about > lead in the environment as some...but there it is. > > I'm going upstairs right now to expose leaded glass to > UV to see it glow, things that glow in the dark being > some of my favorite things. > > I have some uranium glass that glows well, and lots of > minerals from NJ that glow the most astonishing > colors... > > I'll try hard to maintain a level head, folks, and I > very much want to apologize if I've gone off too hard, > Al!! > > JR > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Music Unlimited > Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. > http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Oct 14 08:07:18 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Oct 14 08:07:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Leaded glass In-Reply-To: <434F3ED5.3020408@att.net> Message-ID: >Another reference says that it's the acid, so don't use that 24% lead >crystal decanter for your vinegar or salad dressing, either! Attention please: the following is a handful that I grabbed from my intellectual baggage. No references so believe it or leave it ;-))))) (tongue in cheek) The Romans in the 1st century BC already had knowledge of the effect of lead on the human psyche. Memory loss and dementia. When anti knocking agents became necessary, tetra ethyl lead was chosen because it was less competitive to the oil industry than alcohol would have been. Workers in the TEL manufactory process became violently insane by the dozen. The effects of lead poisoning are cumulative. Once inside your body, lead stays inside your body. There have been attempts to remove lead by administering copious amounts of milk (seriously) which has been helpful in slightly moderating some of the worst symptoms of some of the worst cases. There is however no cure for lead poisoning as far as I know (which is not far ;-))). What makes leaded glass so dangerous is that lead is an amphoteric "metal". Lead will dissolve in strong acids AND strong bases (as will aluminum. Caustic soda will dissolve aluminum and lead and release hydrogen, just like an acid would do.(to Al, not lead)) Lead with strong bases forms plumbates which are reasonably soluble in water. Lead oxides, like found in leaded glass, will also dissolve in both weak acids and weak bases. Alcohol can act as a base AND as an acid. Wine also contains other acids and stuff. Therefore it would be unwise to drink wine from antique crystal glassware on a daily basis. The upper class, the "bourgeoisie" as we called it, around the turn of the 1900's found this out the hard way. Dementia praecox and hallucinations were diseases that struck mainly in "noble circles". How does this relate to mineralogy? You can extract silver out of most lead ore by cupellation. Antique civilizations used both the lead (water pipes and lining of basins) and silver (coins). The old ore roasting techniques of the Romans and Greeks released copious amounts of lead dust into the atmosphere. That dust has been found in ice layers on both poles and Greenland. Also glacier ice on all continents has lead in it from that period (and the past 75 years. Tetra ethyl lead was responsible for the injection into the environment of about thousands of tons of lead oxide per year in the USA alone around the 70's. Europe probably released around the same quantities with measurable effect on peoples brains). Now glacier are melting and so is the ice cap of the poles. All that lead will once again be released into the food chain. Cheers Axel From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Oct 14 12:01:36 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Oct 14 12:01:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass In-Reply-To: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Hey Pete! Just use a 0.8mm and a 4.7mm graduated square container! Anywho, how difficult is 4/3 Pi R cubed? LOL! {:={D} Glenn From: pjmodreski@att.net But one can calculate, that the size of the 3.5 mg drop you refer to... but let's see, I get that it would be 7 mg for a 140 cubic meter room to reach the occupational exposure level, or 1400 mg (1.4 grams) for the immediate hazard level. Anyway, I get a cube of mercury 0.8 mm on an edge (I know mercury doesn't come in cubes, but I'm too lazy to use the formula for a sphere), for the lower (occupational) level, and 4.7 mm on an edge (a more substantial droplet) for the higher hazard level. Pete ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Search, shop, and browse smarter using tabs with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From Bobslgn at aol.com Fri Oct 14 18:59:19 2005 From: Bobslgn at aol.com (Bobslgn@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 14 18:59:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] leaded glass Message-ID: <12d.66f2373e.3081bc77@aol.com> Many of you may already know that current production of high quality crystal glass, at least that which is sold in California, is made using silver instead of lead. Saves the glass makers from putting hazard warnings on their products sold in CA. Silver is not without it's toxic properties, however much greater exposure is required before it is a concern and you don't need a hazard label for it. [I know I know some people drink silver infused water as a tonic. Let's just say I would't]. Thanks, Bob --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Fri Oct 14 19:45:30 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Fri Oct 14 19:45:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] SW TX Trip Message-ID: <013701c5d132$824d6f50$5f87633f@marilyn> Sorry to post this but I have received too many requests to answer each individually. Delete if you aren't interested. To Jeff Chip Gregg John and others. Here are some contacts in SW TX for Ideas and locations. Teri Smith at the antelope lodge in Alpine 432 837-2451 agatehunter@sbcglobal.net Plume agate (RED BLACK GOLD MIXED) labradorite Jaspers of various and mixed colors great digging, very friendly. Trey Woodward check out their web site query Woodward ranch Plume agate. Plume jasper labradorite opal (mostly common maybe some color) Iris agate the Needle peak connection. Nice folks Donna Frammell Blue Agate rocks, Balmoreau Blue for sale you can dig at the balmoreau lake but it is picked over. Ask her about other fieldtrips in the area. and stop in. Very friendly and nice. 432-426-2924 dan@blueagaterock.com. while in the area I'd hit Moonlight gemstones in Marfa, Paul will tell you about his area but no open field trips at this time. Maverick rock shop in study butte is a trip lots of OLD stock and very reasonable prices. I hate to let this one out as the prices are too good but Hans is a great older gentleman and can tell you some stories of the area if you ask lots of questions another local said lots of petrified wood on the back side of La Herta Mesa west of study butte. Also Ring at many rocks in study butte unfortunately he was gone fishing when we got there so you'll have to tell me his stories. any way here are lots of leads and new friends to contact. If you like petrogliphs there are allot near Study butte ask the locals but basically east of the chili pepper cafe. Good eats nice people. If I didn't cover what you want just email me. Next trip will be in NM I'll let you know. Keep on Rockin. Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Oct 14 20:57:27 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Oct 14 20:36:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Report on my trip to Cupertino, CA Message-ID: <43507939.52A9@Tomaszewski.net> Uneventful flight there (and back), shuttle to the hotel, and walking distance to the business I had to visit. I spent most of the week in conference rooms for my training. But I did have Wednesday evening free, and worked out a ride to and from Foothills College for the Bay Area Mineralogists (BAM) Club meeting (www.baymin.org). My thanks to everyone who offered collecting or meeting suggestions. Cupertino is a slab of cement with nothing to collect without a drive. BAM was the best of the many suggestions I received from this List due to my limited time and transportation. The meeting was held in the Geology Lab at the College, which was a treat in itself. My ride dropped me off early so I had some time to peruse the exhibits and specimens. The program was on Diamatina, Minas Gerais, Brazil. It was well researched, and there were some outstanding slides, as well as some nice representative rock, mineral, and gem specimens, including a diamond in conglomerate, which I had only read about but never seen before. I learned a lot about the location and its history. The Club members were a knowledgable and friendly group that welcomed me as a visitor and quickly made me feel at home. My only regret is that I had to leave early in the after-meeting discussion (my ride called to say it was time to go, and I had to leave). I was able to acquire a nice specimen of Benetoite (quite a bit better than the one I had), and a small nugget of crystalized California Gold, so I didn't come home empty handed. But the best part was being able to travel most of the way across the country and find friends. Rockhounds are special people. Kreigh P.S., I found out one of my trainers lived in Morgan Hill, and he told me a lot about Poppy Jasper (and said his Geology classes were his favorites), but he wasn't aware that there were rock clubs in the area. I would suggest that Clubs everywhere need to do more to reach out; I continue to find closet rockhounds whereever I travel. From rockhound at btinternet.com Sat Oct 15 03:19:28 2005 From: rockhound at btinternet.com (Neil A) Date: Sat Oct 15 03:19:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass In-Reply-To: <33241033.1129248888016.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: I haven't read all the threads on hazards, but tin is another hazardous material we all put next to our food nowadays. Thats why thin tinned cans that are dented are a hazard. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of John Teague Sent: 14 October 2005 01:15 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass Thanks for the info ... John (3) -----Original Message----- From: pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Oct 13, 2005 4:51 PM To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass Hi, Kreigh & all the list, Just an afterthought, browsing some of these past posts on this topic. Forgive me if I'm repeating anything already written, but Kreigh, you wrote on 10/7, <<: -------------- > The vapor pressure of Mercury is unusually low. This makes it ideal for > use in manometers. At 25C water has a vapor pressure of about 3.1691 > kPa, but Mercury is only 0.2460. > > Hot Mercury is a very different beast and most vapor pressure tables > have a second entry for Mercury above 129C. Don't leave your Mercury > containing rocks in sunlight. > > BTW, Iodine is one of the few common substances that has a lower vapor > pressure than Mercury -- it is 0.1889 kPa. > > So if you spill some Mercury, simply clean it up. Use some clean copper > to sponge up the little balls you can't pick up with paper and a small > brush. I have to agree with Rik on this one. > > Kreigh > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From danielz at acmenet.net Sat Oct 15 08:45:55 2005 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Sat Oct 15 08:46:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [AD] Dealer Special: Fluorescent geodes. Message-ID: <000501c5d19f$8da87580$6401a8c0@M1Garand> We're still working on retiring. Found 30-40 pounds of fluorescent geodes in the garage that I bought many years ago. They are available at $8 per pound, plus actual shipping costs. We've been selling them for $2.97 per piece (half geode) for several years. They probably go for much more now. Want them all? -- I'll pay the shipping. Credit cards accepted for orders over $25. Checks are fine too. These fluoresce a bright green throughout the inner lining. A (non-fluorescing) picture of some of them is available at http://www.manyfacets.com/fl_geodes.jpg Many Facets Rock Shop Albany, NY (518) 456-0678 From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Oct 15 12:53:26 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Oct 15 12:53:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lead paint Message-ID: On 10/14/05, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > the effect of lead > on the human psyche. Memory loss > and dementia. When my grandson was a toddler a routine blood test found he had high lead levels. He was living in one of my houses that had been built in 1889. We suspected he had ingested some lead based paint. The doctor said we should wait 3 months to see if the lead levels dropped as he added height and weight. A public health nurse inspected the house, looking for the source of the lead. She found bite marks on a window sill. That little termite was teething and was gnawing on grandpa's house. Three months later he was heavier, taller, and had lower lead levels. When he was 4 years old I noticed him throwing a ball left-handed. I said, "Are you left-handed?", hoping he understood the concept of a dominate hand. He answered, "I'm ambidextrous." Last Christmas, when he was age 7, I gave him a piece of opal. He said, "Is opal sedimentary or igneous?" I was so shocked by his question I couldn't think of the answer. I wonder how inteligent he would be if he had never ben around lead-based paint? Grant From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Oct 15 15:41:08 2005 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Oct 15 15:41:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lead paint In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wonder about that too, Grant... To what degree did we retard our social and scientific development when we started to use lead. How far would we be now without it? The same is probably true for plutonium although we may not really have a choice in future use of this toxic material. There's also talk that it 's possibly far less toxic then we previously assumed... or perhaps this new view is also the result of somebody's agenda? Oh well, you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs... Civilization is always on the prowl for new materials. We need stuff to live in comfort. Then again, too much eggs is bad for your cholesterol ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Grant Johnston Verzonden: zaterdag 15 oktober 2005 21:53 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Lead paint On 10/14/05, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > the effect of lead > on the human psyche. Memory loss > and dementia. When my grandson was a toddler a routine blood test found he had high lead levels. He was living in one of my houses that had been built in 1889. We suspected he had ingested some lead based paint. The doctor said we should wait 3 months to see if the lead levels dropped as he added height and weight. A public health nurse inspected the house, looking for the source of the lead. She found bite marks on a window sill. That little termite was teething and was gnawing on grandpa's house. Three months later he was heavier, taller, and had lower lead levels. When he was 4 years old I noticed him throwing a ball left-handed. I said, "Are you left-handed?", hoping he understood the concept of a dominate hand. He answered, "I'm ambidextrous." Last Christmas, when he was age 7, I gave him a piece of opal. He said, "Is opal sedimentary or igneous?" I was so shocked by his question I couldn't think of the answer. I wonder how inteligent he would be if he had never ben around lead-based paint? Grant _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 15 19:08:37 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 15 18:44:36 2005 Subject: OT: [Rockhounds] Lead paint References: Message-ID: <4351B07D.1DC3@Tomaszewski.net> Chelation therapy has been used for more than 40 years to reduce lead levels in people who have been exposed. There is still much controversy over its use and effectiveness with lead; it seems to be more effective with other heavy metals. Children are more affected by lead than adults because they absorb it faster, and because it has more effect on developing nerve systems. BTW, Thomas Midgely was the inventor behind both Tetraethyl Lead and CFCs. We can thank him for starting the spread of our lead and fluoride minerals over the planet. Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > I wonder about that too, Grant... > To what degree did we retard our social and scientific development when we > started to use lead. How far would we be now without it? > The same is probably true for plutonium although we may not really have a > choice in future use of this toxic material. There's also talk that it 's > possibly far less toxic then we previously assumed... or perhaps this new > view is also the result of somebody's agenda? > Oh well, you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs... Civilization is > always on the prowl for new materials. We need stuff to live in comfort. > Then again, too much eggs is bad for your cholesterol ;-))) > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Grant Johnston > Verzonden: zaterdag 15 oktober 2005 21:53 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Lead paint > > On 10/14/05, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > the effect of lead > > on the human psyche. Memory loss > > and dementia. > > When my grandson was a toddler a routine blood test found he had high > lead levels. He was living in one of my houses that had been built in > 1889. We suspected he had ingested some lead based paint. > > The doctor said we should wait 3 months to see if the lead levels > dropped as he added height and weight. A public health nurse > inspected the house, looking for the source of the lead. She found > bite marks on a window sill. That little termite was teething and was > gnawing on grandpa's house. > > Three months later he was heavier, taller, and had lower lead levels. > When he was 4 years old I noticed him throwing a ball left-handed. I > said, "Are you left-handed?", hoping he understood the concept of a > dominate hand. > > He answered, "I'm ambidextrous." > > Last Christmas, when he was age 7, I gave him a piece of opal. He > said, "Is opal sedimentary or igneous?" > > I was so shocked by his question I couldn't think of the answer. I > wonder how inteligent he would be if he had never ben around > lead-based paint? > > Grant From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 15 19:25:12 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 15 19:01:11 2005 Subject: OT: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass References: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <4351B45E.374@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, Winter is coming. Wait until it is 40 below (C or F), put your mercury outside, and you can freeze it into cubes. Or does mercury form some other crystal shape when frozen? Kreigh pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > ... would require a lot of assumptions, probably... I think it's beyond my ability to do that calculation! (of how long it would take to evaporate to reach equilibrium). > > Of course, in any normal room, ventilation would remove most of the mercury vapor before it reached that level. > > But one can calculate, that the size of the 3.5 mg drop you refer to... but let's see, I get that it would be 7 mg for a 140 cubic meter room to reach the occupational exposure level, or 1400 mg (1.4 grams) for the immediate hazard level. Anyway, I get a cube of mercury 0.8 mm on an edge (I know mercury doesn't come in cubes, but I'm too lazy to use the formula for a sphere), for the lower (occupational) level, and 4.7 mm on an edge (a more substantial droplet) for the higher hazard level. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from Al Balmer : -------------- > > > pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > > > > > > > <<> > 10 milligrams per cubic meter of air. The listed occupational > > > exposure limit is 0.05 milligram per cubic meter of air. > > > > > > I thought it would of interest to compute, whether mercury at room > > > temperature would have sufficient vapor pressure to exceed either of > > > these levels in a closed container (whether a glass bottle or a > > > non-ventilated room). Note that the "immediate danger" level is 200 > > > times the occupational exposure level. One can do this calculation > > > from the ideal gas law. The result for 25C = 298 K, is that, for a > > > vapor pressure of 0.00185 torr, (I had to do this calculation several > > > times to make sure I got it right), the air would countain 20 > > > milligrams of mercury per cubic meter; twice the "danger level", and > > > 400 times the occupational exposure level. So, breathing any mercury > > > vapor, even at room temperature, that has had the opportunity to > > > accumulate in a non-ventilated area, is definitely not recommended. > > > > > Very interesting. Thanks for doing the calculation. For a 140 cubic > > meter room, it would take only 3.5 mg to reach the hazardous level - not > > a very big drop. Of course, that would be at equilibrium. Can you > > calculate how long it would take to evaporate that much? You'd have to > > make some assumption about surface area, I suppose. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From afox at drizzle.com Sun Oct 16 11:23:44 2005 From: afox at drizzle.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sun Oct 16 11:23:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Minor List Downtime Message-ID: Drizzle.com will be making some changes and upgrades to their mail servers on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday. As a result, there is a potential for some mail to the list to be delayed or accidentally rejected. If this happens, don't worry. The sky is *not* falling, and all should be righted by midday Tuesday. Just an FYI in case anything interesting happens. --The Admin Team From roughrock at gmail.com Sun Oct 16 11:25:00 2005 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sun Oct 16 11:25:04 2005 Subject: OT: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass In-Reply-To: <4351B45E.374@Tomaszewski.net> References: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <4351B45E.374@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: I've heard you can clean saw oil that way. You mix the dirty oil with water -- then put it outside when it's 40 below. The oil floats off and all the water and rock residue freezes into a block. Pour off the cleaned oil and put it back in the saw ........ The only problem I can see is you can only do it at a place that gets really cold. I've lived two places in my life, Louisiana and California. In either of those place you need an appliance, appropriately called a freezer, to transform water into its solid state. Grant ;-)) On 10/15/05, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Pete, > > Winter is coming. Wait until it is 40 below (C or F), put your mercury > outside, and you can freeze it into cubes. > > Or does mercury form some other crystal shape when frozen? > > Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Oct 16 20:35:19 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Oct 16 20:32:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Indian Mounds Club Annual Silent Auction (Wyoming, MI) Message-ID: <43531B2E.2830@Tomaszewski.net> The Indian Mounds Rock and Mineral Club in Wyoming, Michigan will be holding its Annual Silent Auction on Tuesday evening, October 18, from 7 pm to 9 pm, at Wesley Park United Methodist Church's Fellowship Hall. The Church is located at 1150 32nd St. SW (corner w/ Michael St.), in Wyoming, MI (just south of Grand Rapids); take US131 to the 28th Street Exit, west to Michael, and south to the Church. In addition to a wide variety of rock and mineral specimens there will be an equipment table with supplies and used lapidary equipment. The Club has been preparing for this event for months, and we hope you can join us for an evening of fun and bargains. From Bobslgn at aol.com Sun Oct 16 21:11:39 2005 From: Bobslgn at aol.com (Bobslgn@aol.com) Date: Sun Oct 16 21:11:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tin in Cans Message-ID: <206.bc032d4.30847e7b@aol.com> Neil, The tin plating in the can is not a hazard. It is there to protect the steel from the product in the can. The risk with a damaged can is the potential for a breach in the tin, which would allow the steel to be attacked and in turn cause a leak, which would allow bacteria to grow. The can industry has gone to great lengths to be sure that the tin used in can making has the lowest possible levels of other naturally occurring metals. Thanks, Bob >Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 11:19:28 +0100 >From: "Neil A" >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded > glass >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" >I haven't read all the threads on hazards, but tin is another hazardous >material we all put next to our food nowadays. Thats why thin tinned cans >that are dented are a hazard. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Oct 17 11:03:01 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Oct 17 11:03:04 2005 Subject: OT: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass Message-ID: <101720051803.3702.4353E754000DEC3700000E76216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Actually, Kreigh, mercury is rhombohedral--I just looked this up on http://www.webelements.com just goes to show, the simplest possibility isn't always the correct one. Pete -------------- Original message from Kreigh Tomaszewski : -------------- > Pete, > > Winter is coming. Wait until it is 40 below (C or F), put your mercury > outside, and you can freeze it into cubes. > > Or does mercury form some other crystal shape when frozen? > > Kreigh > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Mon Oct 17 12:06:13 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (john) Date: Mon Oct 17 11:42:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology book bibliography Message-ID: <1129575973.5304.10.camel@localhost> Hey, people! If you want to know about or find a book about geology (mostly in English) that is in print, check out this site: http://home.att.net/~newbooks/geologybooks.html It is maintained by a science librarian and is extensive. There are lots of other topics available also. -- john From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 17 15:32:26 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 17 15:26:37 2005 Subject: OT: [Rockhounds] haz minerals -Mercury, Iodine,... leaded glass References: <101720051803.3702.4353E754000DEC3700000E76216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <43542513.6B3A@Tomaszewski.net> Thanks Pete, I was taking a guess. The various places I looked didn't list the crystal form for Mercury. I should have thought of webelements since I've used them in the past. Probably too many silver pennies in my youth.... Kreigh pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Actually, Kreigh, mercury is rhombohedral--I just looked this up on > > http://www.webelements.com > > just goes to show, the simplest possibility isn't always the correct one. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from Kreigh Tomaszewski : -------------- > > > Pete, > > > > Winter is coming. Wait until it is 40 below (C or F), put your mercury > > outside, and you can freeze it into cubes. > > > > Or does mercury form some other crystal shape when frozen? > > > > Kreigh > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Oct 17 19:28:06 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Oct 17 19:16:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology book bibliography References: <1129575973.5304.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <002801c5d38b$934f9bb0$d9dec945@feldsparflash> John thanks for the web site...it is quite comprehensive...and multi-level.....saves search time! Carolyn Reynard . ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 3:06 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology book bibliography > Hey, people! If you want to know about or find a book about geology > (mostly in English) that is in print, check out this site: > > http://home.att.net/~newbooks/geologybooks.html > > It is maintained by a science librarian and is extensive. There are lots > of other topics available also. > > -- > john > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 17 19:58:34 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 17 19:52:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil References: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <4351B45E.374@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4354634F.1436@Tomaszewski.net> Grant, That is the most interesting method of cleaning saw oil I have heard of, and I'm amazed I've never heard of it before. But I don't think you want to wait for 40 below because the oil would take a long while to pour. Just below the freezing point of water would work much better, and be much faster than filtering it through a grocery bag. And the freezer makes it available in all four seasons. Thanks for the tip! Kreigh Grant Johnston wrote: > > I've heard you can clean saw oil that way. You mix the dirty oil with > water -- then put it outside when it's 40 below. The oil floats off > and all the water and rock residue freezes into a block. Pour off the > cleaned oil and put it back in the saw ........ > > The only problem I can see is you can only do it at a place that gets > really cold. I've lived two places in my life, Louisiana and > California. In either of those place you need an appliance, > appropriately called a freezer, to transform water into its solid > state. > > Grant ;-)) > On 10/15/05, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Pete, > > > > Winter is coming. Wait until it is 40 below (C or F), put your mercury > > outside, and you can freeze it into cubes. > > > > Or does mercury form some other crystal shape when frozen? > > > > Kreigh From tim at orerockon.com Mon Oct 17 20:08:59 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Oct 17 20:09:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil In-Reply-To: <4354634F.1436@Tomaszewski.net> References: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <4351B45E.374@Tomaszewski.net> <4354634F.1436@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051017200157.02948e38@orerockon.com> I had heard the same thing. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. You can't get the rock dust to come out of the oil into the water. Think about it, the dust sticks to the oil because it is immersed in oil; every particle is coated with a film of oil when you mix the oil & water. The dust just won't magically shed its coating of oil & migrate into the water. You will be left with dirty oil, murky water, and ice at the end of the process. If you added a solvent such as a water-based degreaser, it would probably work, but then you wouldn't have oil as your end product. The grocery bag method works, and works well. If you are impatient, put your setup in front of the shop heater (that's what I do in the winter) or out in the sun. I can do a grocery bag full in a week if the oil is kept warm. At 07:58 PM 10/17/2005, you wrote: >Grant, > >That is the most interesting method of cleaning saw oil I have heard of, >and I'm amazed I've never heard of it before. > >But I don't think you want to wait for 40 below because the oil would >take a long while to pour. Just below the freezing point of water would >work much better, and be much faster than filtering it through a grocery >bag. And the freezer makes it available in all four seasons. > >Thanks for the tip! > >Kreigh > > >Grant Johnston wrote: > > > > I've heard you can clean saw oil that way. You mix the dirty oil with > > water -- then put it outside when it's 40 below. The oil floats off > > and all the water and rock residue freezes into a block. Pour off the > > cleaned oil and put it back in the saw ........ > > > > The only problem I can see is you can only do it at a place that gets > > really cold. I've lived two places in my life, Louisiana and > > California. In either of those place you need an appliance, > > appropriately called a freezer, to transform water into its solid > > state. > > > > Grant ;-)) Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 17 20:41:02 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 17 20:34:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil References: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <4351B45E.374@Tomaszewski.net> <4354634F.1436@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051017200157.02948e38@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <43546D3D.4915@Tomaszewski.net> Tim, Not working is probably why I had not heard of it. I wonder if ultrasonic mixing would help. Or maybe soapy water? I guess it is back to the grocery bag. Sigh. Kreigh Tim Fisher wrote: > > I had heard the same thing. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. You can't > get the rock dust to come out of the oil into the water. Think about > it, the dust sticks to the oil because it is immersed in oil; every > particle is coated with a film of oil when you mix the oil & water. > The dust just won't magically shed its coating of oil & migrate into > the water. You will be left with dirty oil, murky water, and ice at > the end of the process. If you added a solvent such as a water-based > degreaser, it would probably work, but then you wouldn't have oil as > your end product. The grocery bag method works, and works well. If > you are impatient, put your setup in front of the shop heater (that's > what I do in the winter) or out in the sun. I can do a grocery bag > full in a week if the oil is kept warm. > > At 07:58 PM 10/17/2005, you wrote: > > >Grant, > > > >That is the most interesting method of cleaning saw oil I have heard of, > >and I'm amazed I've never heard of it before. > > > >But I don't think you want to wait for 40 below because the oil would > >take a long while to pour. Just below the freezing point of water would > >work much better, and be much faster than filtering it through a grocery > >bag. And the freezer makes it available in all four seasons. > > > >Thanks for the tip! > > > >Kreigh > > > > > >Grant Johnston wrote: > > > > > > I've heard you can clean saw oil that way. You mix the dirty oil with > > > water -- then put it outside when it's 40 below. The oil floats off > > > and all the water and rock residue freezes into a block. Pour off the > > > cleaned oil and put it back in the saw ........ > > > > > > The only problem I can see is you can only do it at a place that gets > > > really cold. I've lived two places in my life, Louisiana and > > > California. In either of those place you need an appliance, > > > appropriately called a freezer, to transform water into its solid > > > state. > > > > > > Grant ;-)) From edben at prodigy.net Tue Oct 18 06:18:11 2005 From: edben at prodigy.net (edben) Date: Tue Oct 18 06:18:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil Plus SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT References: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net><4351B45E.374@Tomaszewski.net><4354634F.1436@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051017200157.02948e38@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <000b01c5d3e6$6475aea0$c4059f04@benjamin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil >I had heard the same thing. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. I don't know where you live, Tim, but here in Michigan, in the winter months, the great out of doors makes the best oil separator you'll ever need. The system really works. The dirt does end up in the water, not the oil! Just freeze, then pour off the clean oil! Some time back I had a drop saw with sort of a sump in which the recirculating pump sat. I filled the saw with water (with an additive to prevent corrosion), almost to the point where it overflowed into the pump. Then I filled the rest of the way with oil. Much less of it! The pump circulated only the oil. The water below kept the oil clean, really clean. At cleaning time, it was necessary only to direct the sump pump outlet into a bucket, then add more water to the saw until all of the oil had collected in the bucket. You were left with all of the sludge and water, much easier to clean out than sludgy oil ever is! And this method doesn't even require a Michigan Winter to make it work! And if you're anywhere near Grand Rapids, don't miss the Indian Mounds Rock & Mineral Club's Annual Silent Auction TONIGHT! Auction will be at Wesley Park United Methodist Church, 1150 32nd St. S.W., Wyoming, Michigan (Grand Rapids Area). The Auction starts at 7 PM and there will be mineral specimens and lapidary rough galore. You'll also find an equipment table loaded with just about anything you may need. I know there will be two fifteen inch Lortone Vibrating Laps starting at a low, low minimum bid 'cause I'm bringing them. From jemstone at amug.org Tue Oct 18 13:42:34 2005 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Tue Oct 18 13:42:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AZ in January References: <200509062119.j86LJGpQ030055@outmx023.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <01dc01c5d424$783cd150$4c592741@MCWIDOM> Hi Rik, I am catching up on my list reading and noted that you had a response to your question regarding the Gila County show. The two shows you are asking about are the Flagg Show (Arizona Mining and Mineral Museum Foundation puts it on) which will be held Jan 6, 7 & 8th. This show is held in the parking lot of the Mesa Community College - it is just outside of the Tempe City limits. The second show you are thinking about is Rockfest - a collaboration between promoter W R Russ and the Mineralogical Society of Arizona. It is normally the weekend after the Flagg show in a parking lot of the Tempe Diablo baseball field. The dates are Jan 13, 14 & 15. Due to the low cost to participate in the Flagg show there are often folks who are selling personal collections and material that is surplus to their collections. The possibility of an excellent bargain is always there at the Flagg Show, though what the bargain will be is usually the result of serendipity. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona > I have been a couple of times to Quarzsite, but I also had the occasion to > go to two shows in one week-end in the > neighbourhood of Tempe (also in Ja nuary). Does anyone know the 2006 dates > of these shows ? > Thanks and greetings, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Oct 18 17:21:53 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Oct 18 17:21:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Interesting popping rocks! Message-ID: Check this out...cool stuff! http://www.livescience.com/othernews/051018_popping_rocks.html Glenn ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ MSN Premium brings together everything you need on the Internet in 1 place, including PC security! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Oct 18 20:04:28 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Oct 18 20:04:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology book bibliography References: <1129575973.5304.10.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <008c01c5d459$d23dcad0$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I noticed an absence of paleontology books. I tend to get specialized regional books based on places I am going to visit. I don't sit down a read books as often as I use to due to free time being tied up with other things. I do get a number of magazines, some are read quickly, others languish for weeks or months. I just read an autobiography of my paleontology professor. I haven't read a book that thick in a long time. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 3:06 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology book bibliography > Hey, people! If you want to know about or find a book about geology > (mostly in English) that is in print, check out this site: > > http://home.att.net/~newbooks/geologybooks.html > > It is maintained by a science librarian and is extensive. There are lots > of other topics available also. > > -- > john > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Cycadwood at aol.com Tue Oct 18 20:08:41 2005 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 18 20:08:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geology book bibliography Message-ID: <1e4.466c2c69.308712b9@aol.com> In a message dated 10/18/2005 9:05:02 PM Mountain Standard Time, deepskyspy@insightbb.com writes: I noticed an absence of paleontology books. I tend to get specialized regional books based on places I am going to visit. I don't sit down a read books as often as I use to due to free time being tied up with other things. I do get a number of magazines, some are read quickly, others languish for weeks or months. I just read an autobiography of my paleontology professor. I haven't read a book that thick in a long time. Alan _http://home.att.net/~azroadie2/paleobook.html_ (http://home.att.net/~azroadie2/paleobook.html) Go to the home page. There are many categories. Frank Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 westerncolopub@aol.com 970.242.5255 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Ferns, Cones, and Cycads and the soon to be released Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Tue Oct 18 20:40:56 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Oct 18 20:41:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil Plus SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT In-Reply-To: <000b01c5d3e6$6475aea0$c4059f04@benjamin> References: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <4351B45E.374@Tomaszewski.net> <4354634F.1436@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051017200157.02948e38@orerockon.com> <000b01c5d3e6$6475aea0$c4059f04@benjamin> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051018203933.026d93a8@orerockon.com> Correction: It doesn't work in a chest freezer. Maybe the temperature has something to do with it. It doesn't get below freezing here more than a few days a year... At 06:18 AM 10/18/2005, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 11:08 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil > > >>I had heard the same thing. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. > > > >I don't know where you live, Tim, but here in Michigan, in the >winter months, the great out of doors makes the best oil separator >you'll ever need. The system really works. The dirt does end up in >the water, not the oil! Just freeze, then pour off the clean oil! > >Some time back I had a drop saw with sort of a sump in which the >recirculating pump sat. I filled the saw with water (with an >additive to prevent corrosion), almost to the point where it >overflowed into the pump. Then I filled the rest of the way with >oil. Much less of it! The pump circulated only the oil. The water >below kept the oil clean, really clean. At cleaning time, it was >necessary only to direct the sump pump outlet into a bucket, then >add more water to the saw until all of the oil had collected in the >bucket. You were left with all of the sludge and water, much easier >to clean out than sludgy oil ever is! And this method doesn't >even require a Michigan Winter to make it work! > >And if you're anywhere near Grand Rapids, don't miss the Indian >Mounds Rock & Mineral Club's Annual Silent Auction TONIGHT! >Auction will be at Wesley Park United Methodist Church, 1150 32nd >St. S.W., Wyoming, Michigan (Grand Rapids Area). The Auction starts >at 7 PM and there will be mineral specimens and lapidary rough >galore. You'll also find an equipment table loaded with just about >anything you may need. I know there will be two fifteen inch >Lortone Vibrating Laps starting at a low, low minimum bid 'cause I'm >bringing them. > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From smtravis at plateautel.net Tue Oct 18 22:16:47 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Tue Oct 18 23:24:44 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] found in the garage Message-ID: <004401c5d46c$4fe129c0$5f87633f@marilyn> During my uranium exploration days in the 70' I collected a group of radioactive specimens carnatite, pitch Roll Fronts etc. any one interested in the whold lot? Stevev --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Wed Oct 19 02:53:15 2005 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Wed Oct 19 02:53:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] found in the garage References: <004401c5d46c$4fe129c0$5f87633f@marilyn> Message-ID: <000801c5d492$edd12e70$a9defea9@TOSHIBA> I am a volonteer. Obviously I pay the shipment. Armando Afonso (Portugal) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve & Marilyn" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:16 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] found in the garage During my uranium exploration days in the 70' I collected a group of radioactive specimens carnatite, pitch Roll Fronts etc. any one interested in the whold lot? Stevev --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mayersr at cox.net Mon Oct 17 08:24:25 2005 From: mayersr at cox.net (Rick Mayers) Date: Wed Oct 19 12:14:30 2005 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question about possible Message-ID: <005401c5d32e$db7bb0c0$6401a8c0@mc.at.cox.net> ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Mayers To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:08 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question about possible Did you find anyone from Georgia ? I am from Macon (Central GA) . I am researching what is called labradorite . It is red,orange to green . They are saying that it is Andesine actually and is very rare and very valuable. Rick Mayers mayersr@cox.net --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Wed Oct 19 17:17:45 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Wed Oct 19 17:18:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] textbooks References: <005401c5d32e$db7bb0c0$6401a8c0@mc.at.cox.net> Message-ID: <004b01c5d50b$b23e21a0$6401a8c0@maingear> I am wondering if there is a source of science books like a Border's for the thinking person. I would love to find a book that covers how minerals form, where they form, and how long it takes them to form. I would like it to be as specific as possible even down to individual minerals. Failing that, is there a source of geological or mineralogical papers written about local areas? I started wondering about this while I was out collecting over the weekend. I want to know how long that piece of kyanite or sillimanite or water clear quartz has been lying there waiting for me to come along and pick it up. I am sure Borders or Barnes and Noble are useless and I have Googled it but cant find anything. Paul in Marietta From jr50wv at yahoo.com Wed Oct 19 18:42:37 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Wed Oct 19 18:42:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Specimen discussion - Dalnegorsk fluorite Message-ID: <20051020014237.157.qmail@web34601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: I recently (August) bought a nice "optical" fluorite specimen from Kevin Conroy, via an online auction. It's from the Nikolaevskiy Mine, Dalnegorsk, Russia, and it is as clear as water. [I bought a LOT of specimens in August, I went to the East Coast Show in Springfield MA, too!! Wow, big fun!] Some faces are slightly frosted, others are perfectly transparent. On the bottom, where it was gently removed from matrix, there are a few small frosty quartz crystals, and small shards of a very shiny flat-surfaced black metallic-appearing mineral. The specimen is still viewable at the auction site: http://mineral-auctions.com/item.php?itemID=1828 but obviously the photos do not concentrate on the bottom of the piece. There are some 67 minerals listed on MinDat.org for this mine, although many are ruled out easily: http://www.mindat.org/loc-4642.html So I wanted to ask what those of you more familiar with this mine and its minerals think about what these little shiny black shards are. They are hard, with a vitreous luster, and the faces (probably cleavages) are absolutely flat. The middle right pic shows them a little bit, but it isn't much help, really. It's a beauty, that's for sure. If anyone has a good clean cabinet-sized specimen somewhat like this available, give me a word off-list! I have a couple of other questions, I'll not use them all up in one night... JR __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 19 19:52:00 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 19 19:52:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil Plus SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT References: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <4351B45E.374@Tomaszewski.net> <4354634F.1436@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051017200157.02948e38@orerockon.com> <000b01c5d3e6$6475aea0$c4059f04@benjamin> <6.2.5.3.2.20051018203933.026d93a8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <43570646.5234@Tomaszewski.net> Tim, I talked with Ed about his solution at our Club meeting on Tuesday. It sounds like Ed's solution works because of gravity and time. With dirty oil over water, gravity causes the denser rock particles to slowly settle into the water so they can be removed by freezing. Running the saw may dirty the oil, but the crud settles into the water when it is not in use (and does not mix back into the oil). This would probably work with most trim saws that don't have a pump, as long as the water level was below the bottom of the blade. If the saw has a pump, the oil intake would need to be above the water level. And if you used only oil, it might work with a chest freezer if you let the dirty oil/clean water mix stand for a few days before freezing. I'm going to try it the next time my saw needs cleaning. My oil only saw (w/o pump) only gets infrequent use. When I start it up it runs clean for a while before use stirs up the sludge that has settled to the bottom. When I use it frequently it starts up dirty. It looks like time, and not temperature, is the key to making the freezing trick work. Kreigh Tim Fisher wrote: > > Correction: It doesn't work in a chest freezer. Maybe the temperature > has something to do with it. It doesn't get below freezing here more > than a few days a year... > > At 06:18 AM 10/18/2005, you wrote: > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 11:08 PM > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil > > > > > >>I had heard the same thing. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. > > > > > > > >I don't know where you live, Tim, but here in Michigan, in the > >winter months, the great out of doors makes the best oil separator > >you'll ever need. The system really works. The dirt does end up in > >the water, not the oil! Just freeze, then pour off the clean oil! > > > >Some time back I had a drop saw with sort of a sump in which the > >recirculating pump sat. I filled the saw with water (with an > >additive to prevent corrosion), almost to the point where it > >overflowed into the pump. Then I filled the rest of the way with > >oil. Much less of it! The pump circulated only the oil. The water > >below kept the oil clean, really clean. At cleaning time, it was > >necessary only to direct the sump pump outlet into a bucket, then > >add more water to the saw until all of the oil had collected in the > >bucket. You were left with all of the sludge and water, much easier > >to clean out than sludgy oil ever is! And this method doesn't > >even require a Michigan Winter to make it work! > > > >And if you're anywhere near Grand Rapids, don't miss the Indian > >Mounds Rock & Mineral Club's Annual Silent Auction TONIGHT! > >Auction will be at Wesley Park United Methodist Church, 1150 32nd > >St. S.W., Wyoming, Michigan (Grand Rapids Area). The Auction starts > >at 7 PM and there will be mineral specimens and lapidary rough > >galore. You'll also find an equipment table loaded with just about > >anything you may need. I know there will be two fifteen inch > >Lortone Vibrating Laps starting at a low, low minimum bid 'cause I'm > >bringing them. From smtravis at plateautel.net Wed Oct 19 20:42:07 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Wed Oct 19 20:42:28 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] found in the garage References: <004401c5d46c$4fe129c0$5f87633f@marilyn> <000801c5d492$edd12e70$a9defea9@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <003e01c5d528$40b63be0$5f87633f@marilyn> Armando Sorry I will only ship to US addresses. Sorry again not trying to be prejudice but lots easier and more comfotable for me. All the best. Keep on Rockin. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Armando Afonso" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:53 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] found in the garage >I am a volonteer. > Obviously I pay the shipment. > Armando Afonso > (Portugal) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve & Marilyn" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:16 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] found in the garage > > > During my uranium exploration days in the 70' I collected a group of > radioactive specimens carnatite, pitch Roll Fronts etc. any one > interested in the whold lot? Stevev > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From MCGINNISG at aol.com Thu Oct 20 09:53:36 2005 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 20 09:54:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds] Specimen discussion - Dalnegorsk fluorite Message-ID: It is hard to tell from those pictures but from the description I would suggest Sphalerite. It has perfect cleavage and associates well with Fluorite. Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapidry at aol.com Thu Oct 20 14:48:11 2005 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 20 14:48:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rochester NY Gem, Mineral, Fossil show Message-ID: <1f6.14d63198.30896a9b@aol.com> October 22 through 23, Henrietta, NY Rochester, NY Gem, Mineral, Fossil and Bead Show Club-Retail Show - Minerals, Fossils, Gems, Jewelry, Beads, Tools, Rough Stone and Lots More! Free Kids? Activities! Free Demonstrations! Great Displays! Location: Monroe County Fairgrounds, Minett Hall , Calkins Rd, Henrietta, NY Hours: Sat. 10 AM to 6 PM & Sun. 10 AM to 5 PM Promoter: Rochester Lapidary Society and the RAS Mineral Section Contact: Larry Schulman, 585-271-6967 _namluhcs@aol.com_ (mailto:namluhcs@aol.com) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Oct 20 18:29:34 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Oct 20 18:29:37 2005 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question about possible In-Reply-To: <005401c5d32e$db7bb0c0$6401a8c0@mc.at.cox.net> Message-ID: Several varieties of labradorite are quite common, and even used for countertops! It is one of our favorites and Jeanette has cabbed and polished and sold lots of real pretty pieces. It definitely has value, but be careful about spending very large amounts of extremely valuable cash until you check several sources. Glenn in L.A. (Lower Alabama) {:={D} From: "Rick Mayers" <mayersr@cox.net> Subject: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question about possible Did you find anyone from Georgia ? I am from Macon (Central GA) . I am researching what is called labradorite . It is red,orange to green . They are saying that it is Andesine actually and is very rare and very valuable. Rick Mayers mayersr@cox.net ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find e-mail, documents and more on your PC instantly with Windows Desktop Search–FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Oct 20 19:55:17 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Oct 20 19:55:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] textbooks (Lanny?) In-Reply-To: <004b01c5d50b$b23e21a0$6401a8c0@maingear> References: <005401c5d32e$db7bb0c0$6401a8c0@mc.at.cox.net> <004b01c5d50b$b23e21a0$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <43585895.4020009@verizon.net> Hi, (see also off-list reply) Lanny Ream once sold a CD-based mineral magazine index--Lanny, do you still do that? Also, your local college or university, if they have a geology or earth science department, might be able to help. If you still live anywhere near Philadelphia, Bryn Mawr, University of Penn, and Rutgers may have good local documentation, among others. Time is short here (must study) but I hope this short note helps. Best, Don > I would like it to be > as specific as possible even down to individual minerals. Failing that, is > there a source of geological or mineralogical papers written about local > areas? > From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Oct 20 20:00:12 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Oct 20 20:00:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil Plus SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT In-Reply-To: <43570646.5234@Tomaszewski.net> References: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <4351B45E.374@Tomaszewski.net> <4354634F.1436@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051017200157.02948e38@orerockon.com> <000b01c5d3e6$6475aea0$c4059f04@benjamin> <6.2.5.3.2.20051018203933.026d93a8@orerockon.com> <43570646.5234@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <435859BC.7070005@verizon.net> > I talked with Ed about his solution at our Club meeting on Tuesday. > > It sounds like Ed's solution works because of gravity and time. With > dirty oil over water, gravity causes the denser rock particles to slowly > settle into the water so they can be removed by freezing. I've watched this topic go back and forth, and I guess that does make sense: if oil floats on water, and particles sink in oil, they will eventually sink through to the water. However, keep in mind that silt- and clay-sized particles can stay suspended for days, or weeks, depending on the depth of the fluid and how long you let it stand still! Don From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Oct 20 20:18:09 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (michael schmidt) Date: Thu Oct 20 20:16:53 2005 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question about possible References: Message-ID: <003601c5d5ee$10031f60$034c5318@johnny> there is a huge difference in the value of opaque labradorite with schiller, and gem quality transparent labradorite uf you are talking about massive, opaque material, you are looking at a value of a few dollars per kilo. if you are talking gem quality transparent material, you are looking at thousands or more per kilo Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: RE: Fw: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question about possible > Several varieties of labradorite are quite common, and even used for countertops! > > It is one of our favorites and Jeanette has cabbed and polished and sold lots of real pretty pieces. > It definitely has value, but be careful about spending very large amounts of extremely valuable cash until you check several sources. > > > Glenn in L.A. (Lower Alabama) {:={D} > > > From: "Rick Mayers" <mayersr@cox.net> > Subject: [Rockhounds] Anyone from Georgia? And question about possible > > Did you find anyone from Georgia ? I am from Macon (Central GA) . I am researching what is called labradorite . It is red,orange to green . They are saying that it is Andesine actually and is very rare and very valuable. Rick Mayers mayersr@cox.net > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Find e-mail, documents and more on your PC instantly with Windows Desktop Search-FREE! > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jbf at jbfminerals.com Thu Oct 20 20:36:14 2005 From: jbf at jbfminerals.com (Jeff Fast) Date: Thu Oct 20 20:36:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Specimen discussion - Dalnegorsk fluorite References: <20051020014237.157.qmail@web34601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002201c5d5f0$96e9f6f0$b757a545@Dell2004> JR, I've been to Dal'negorsk 9 times and bought many minerals from there. The two that immediately come to mind are sphalerite and ilvaite. Both are found in the Nikolaevskiy Mine. Jeff Fast www.jbfminerals.com (860) 985 - 6321 (USA) From jonee at epix.net Thu Oct 20 23:21:37 2005 From: jonee at epix.net (E.L. Jones) Date: Thu Oct 20 23:22:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] textbooks:Mineralogical and Geological/Pennsylvania Geological Pubs In-Reply-To: <004b01c5d50b$b23e21a0$6401a8c0@maingear> References: <005401c5d32e$db7bb0c0$6401a8c0@mc.at.cox.net> <004b01c5d50b$b23e21a0$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <435888F1.8090609@epix.net> Hello Paul-- You wrote: >I am wondering if there is a source of science books like a Border's for the >thinking person. I would love to find a book that covers how minerals form, >where they form, and how long it takes them to form. I would like it to be >as specific as possible even down to individual minerals. Failing that, is >there a source of geological or mineralogical papers written about local >areas? > You are lucky to be in Pennsylvania and online. New mineralogy texts are running $80-$200+. That blows my specimen budget so I browse the"nearly new" section of my book finder service. There are a lot of professional resourses online available to Rockhounds. Many are free. The more technical unfortunately are in professional journals by hefty subscription. I go to local unversity libraries which have subscriptions. Keep in mind interlibrary loans for the more expensive books. A good starting place for the technical corridor is a title called "The Rock Forming Minerals". I think this one can be had for $40ish-- out of print so you need to subscribe to a book search service. There are several titles called "Mineralogy" or "Petrology" any of them cover what you asked about. I use ABE--American Book Exchange-- but it is really international and free! You can buy straight from their members or buy through them for a nominal fee for processing. You set the parameters of searching by title, author keyword etc. Try 'mineralogy' as a key word. I pick up a few on Ebay as well. Some of the text book services online have past editions which are a good buy given that new editions aren't packed with lots of new science. One advantage to a science that has taken a billion years to develop! Be it remembered most all state Geological Surveys or Geological Societies are online. About.com:Geology is a great collection of links. I have found many advanced geology courses online. (Unfortunately many of these courses have URL's that migrate semester to semester). I especially like the Wilson Cycle: The Opening and Closing of Ocean Basins mini-course at The Pennslvania (PA) Geological Survey-- via the Pennsylvania State bookstore, sells reports about specific PA regions that Survey geologist have published. Many from the PA Geological Survey Website are downloadable. One of the best book buys I've ever found is the latest Survey publication called "The Geology of Pennsylvania". It is around $27 delivered. The book is ample in size and content but can be moved without a handtruck(it is a big book!). The two main parts are: 1) PA throughout geological history, discussing each province during each geological period and what was happening there, w/ named rock formations and how they relate across regions. 2) Specific interesting geological and mineral occurrences such as the, Colonial-age Iron Mines, Oil fields of Western PA, the Coal Regions, the Kimberlites of PA, Uranium in Jim Thorpe etc. For part 1, one needs to keep a geological dictionary handy as one of the several authors extensively uses rare, technical, geological terms--as should be. The lexicon in itself is educational. ( ever heard of a 'klippe" as in Hamburg Klippe? --a stranded land mass of older strata overlying younger strata, totally out of geological sequence and composition for the local norm). At the survey's website itself is MAP 61. What a treasure!!! MAP 61 is a collection of digitalized, downloadable, printable, scaled geological maps, in black and white. They cover about 98% of the topographic quadrangle's of PA. This coupled with my DeLorme State Atlas and GPS let me know what age and formation of rock where ever I am in the state. (btw: The Philly area maps mark a bunch of pegmatite locales). The PA Geological Survey also has depository libraries throughout the state where hard copy maps-- plus all the published reports are available. All in all, PA is a very rock friendly state with many widely distributed resources for the amateur. Regards, Elton PS: for the folks living in the other Marietta, The Georgia Geological Survey publishes a book called "Mineral Occurences in Georgia" with every mineral found in Georgia listed all the locales where it has been found. I bought my copy at the Weinman ( sp) Mineral Museum in Cartersville, just off I75. From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Oct 21 00:01:22 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Oct 21 00:03:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] textbooks:Mineralogical and Geological/Pennsylvania Geological Pubs In-Reply-To: <435888F1.8090609@epix.net> References: <005401c5d32e$db7bb0c0$6401a8c0@mc.at.cox.net> <004b01c5d50b$b23e21a0$6401a8c0@maingear> <435888F1.8090609@epix.net> Message-ID: <43589242.3030202@verizon.net> > > A good starting place for the technical corridor is a title called "The > Rock Forming Minerals". I think this one can be had for $40ish-- out > of print so you need to subscribe to a book search service. There are > several titles called "Mineralogy" or "Petrology" any of them cover what > you asked about. A most worthy and informative post. One question: are you talking about "An Introduction to the Rock Forming Minerals," by Deer, Howie, and Zussman, and are you sure it's out of print? I just bought a new copy within the last few years. Even if it is out of print now, I did a quick search on "rock forming minerals deer howie zussman" and got a lot of hits on copies for sale. Good luck, Don From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 21 00:13:05 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Fri Oct 21 00:26:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Specimen discussion - Dalnegorsk fluorite References: <20051020014237.157.qmail@web34601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001701c5d610$c996a100$78f1edc1@mpc1> Hi J.R. The mineralogy of the Dalnegorsk deposit is relatively simple, so you don't have too many choices for your mystery mineral. Most likely possibilities are sphalerite and ilvaite. I've not seen fluorite with the latter, but others doubtless will correct me if that's a false observation in general. My money is on the sphalerite. Mick From mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl Fri Oct 21 02:34:46 2005 From: mauricedegraaf at xs4all.nl (Maurice de Graaf) Date: Fri Oct 21 02:34:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Specimen discussion - Dalnegorsk fluorite In-Reply-To: <001701c5d610$c996a100$78f1edc1@mpc1> References: <20051020014237.157.qmail@web34601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001701c5d610$c996a100$78f1edc1@mpc1> Message-ID: <4358B636.6010102@xs4all.nl> Mick Cooper wrote: > Hi J.R. > > The mineralogy of the Dalnegorsk deposit is relatively simple, Opps Mike, I see this differently.:-) I study Russian mineralogy for years now and Dalnegorsk still has many questionmarks to me. The volume 'Dalnegorsk' from the Mineralogical Almanac, by Vadim Moroshkin is a great help though. Dalnegorsk is much more than the few species you see regularly on the market. As for J.R.'s black thingy's. It they are really black, they probably are Ilvaite, but Hedenbergite is also possible. If they show slight brownish reflections it can be either Sphalerite or the recently discovered Manganoilvaite. Manganoilvaite forms zoned crystals with regular Ilvaite in Dalnegorsk cheers, Maurice From cweinber at bcpl.net Fri Oct 21 03:52:45 2005 From: cweinber at bcpl.net (Steve & Carolyn Weinberger) Date: Fri Oct 21 03:56:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] textbooks In-Reply-To: <004b01c5d50b$b23e21a0$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: A good source of textbooks like you're looking for is a university bookstore. CW On Wednesday, October 19, 2005, at 08:17 PM, Paul wrote: > I am wondering if there is a source of science books like a Border's > for the > thinking person. I would love to find a book that covers how minerals > form, > where they form, and how long it takes them to form. I would like it > to be > as specific as possible even down to individual minerals. Failing > that, is > there a source of geological or mineralogical papers written about > local > areas? > > I started wondering about this while I was out collecting over the > weekend. > I want to know how long that piece of kyanite or sillimanite or water > clear > quartz has been lying there waiting for me to come along and pick it > up. > > I am sure Borders or Barnes and Noble are useless and I have Googled > it but > cant find anything. > > Paul in Marietta > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Oct 21 04:24:17 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Oct 21 04:24:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorite matrix Message-ID: <20051021112417.38900.qmail@web34606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Timm: That was one of my thoughts too, and it appears to be common there as well. It scratches easily with a hard steel point, and the flat cleaves are another indicator. Thanks! JR __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From magnet at crocoite.com Fri Oct 21 05:45:37 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Fri Oct 21 05:45:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: New Mineral Book - Minerals of the Kara Mine, Tasmania Message-ID: <20051021124537.27285.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi all The Kara Mine, Hampshire, Tasmania, is well-known for it's specimens of andradite, but perhaps not so well-known for the other 50+ species that occur there. This publication, put together by Steve Sorrell, enthusiatic collector, and Ralph Bottrill, collector and mineralogist, is a full-colour publication showcasing the minerals of Kara. The price is $12.95US and available on request through Lulu.com. If you purchase two copies (one for yourself and one for a friend), you can take advantage of Lulu's Supersaver option and pay NO POSTAGE for delivery anywhere in the world. To purchase a copy, go to http://www.crocoite.com/mainadit/karabook.htm and follow the link from there. Regards Steve From xszip at yahoo.com Fri Oct 21 05:46:58 2005 From: xszip at yahoo.com (KC Cullen) Date: Fri Oct 21 05:47:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Fluorite specimen Message-ID: <20051021124658.7573.qmail@web32612.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, Looks like sphalerite. I have seen sphalerite ruby red and I've seen it nearly pitch black. Kay Wong __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Fri Oct 21 04:58:44 2005 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Fri Oct 21 05:52:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] found in the garage References: <004401c5d46c$4fe129c0$5f87633f@marilyn><000801c5d492$edd12e70$a9defea9@TOSHIBA> <003e01c5d528$40b63be0$5f87633f@marilyn> Message-ID: <000801c5d636$e97eb360$a9defea9@TOSHIBA> OK, Steve, I can ask to an american friend to receive the stones for me. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve & Marilyn" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:42 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] found in the garage > Armando Sorry I will only ship to US addresses. Sorry again not trying to > be prejudice but lots easier and more comfotable for me. All the best. > Keep on Rockin. Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Armando Afonso" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 3:53 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] found in the garage > > >>I am a volonteer. >> Obviously I pay the shipment. >> Armando Afonso >> (Portugal) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Steve & Marilyn" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:16 AM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] found in the garage >> >> >> During my uranium exploration days in the 70' I collected a group of >> radioactive specimens carnatite, pitch Roll Fronts etc. any one >> interested in the whold lot? Stevev >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tome61 at aol.com Fri Oct 21 06:31:34 2005 From: tome61 at aol.com (tome61@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 21 06:31:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of Science Books In-Reply-To: <200510210238.j9L2cAfs013454@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200510210238.j9L2cAfs013454@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <8C7A45AE3C4C140-162C-21253@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com> Paul in Marietta, If you haven't already done so, try looking in the "Textbook" section of Barnes and Nobles website and see if that produces any results. We have a B&N textbook warehouse store here in NYC and when I was shopping for textbooks back in September, I noticed that there were a lot of books about minerals, elements, crystals, etc. Also, if there is a university or college in your area that offers earth science (specifically geology courses) you could check out (1) the syllabus or reading list for the course and (2) check the university or college's bookstore to see what they have in stock. If you e-mail me offline with some specific parameters about the types of books you're looking for (more parameters the better), I can check the Geology Library at Columbia U when I go back to classes on Tuesday. Regards, Tom Russell in NY From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Fri Oct 21 06:58:55 2005 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Fri Oct 21 06:58:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of Science Books In-Reply-To: <8C7A45AE3C4C140-162C-21253@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200510211358.j9LDwkC2007065@cti41.citenet.net> Also check the websites of local universities and colleges , some have bulletin boards where students list used textbooks for sale, or you could put a books wanted posting -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of tome61@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 9:32 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of Science Books Paul in Marietta, If you haven't already done so, try looking in the "Textbook" section of Barnes and Nobles website and see if that produces any results. We have a B&N textbook warehouse store here in NYC and when I was shopping for textbooks back in September, I noticed that there were a lot of books about minerals, elements, crystals, etc. Also, if there is a university or college in your area that offers earth science (specifically geology courses) you could check out (1) the syllabus or reading list for the course and (2) check the university or college's bookstore to see what they have in stock. If you e-mail me offline with some specific parameters about the types of books you're looking for (more parameters the better), I can check the Geology Library at Columbia U when I go back to classes on Tuesday. Regards, Tom Russell in NY _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Fri Oct 21 07:45:22 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Oct 21 07:45:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil Plus SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT In-Reply-To: <43570646.5234@Tomaszewski.net> References: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <4351B45E.374@Tomaszewski.net> <4354634F.1436@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051017200157.02948e38@orerockon.com> <000b01c5d3e6$6475aea0$c4059f04@benjamin> <6.2.5.3.2.20051018203933.026d93a8@orerockon.com> <43570646.5234@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051021073935.026d8620@orerockon.com> Please do try it & let us know; I have and so have friends and as I said it did not work. I would guess you would have to let it stand for quite a while for it to work; I may have let it sit for a day or two but I am guessing a week would be more like it. Then again, it takes about a week with the paper bag method. I guess it all comes down to using the method that works for you...and frankly, deliberately pouring water into my saws is something I could not in good conscience do. Where there is water, there is corrosion. I doubt that the water is isolated in the bottom of the tank enough to never contact the blade or arbor except in the smallest saws/ slowest rotating blades. The thought of spraying the inside of my saw with water every time I turn it on gives me nightmares... At 07:52 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote: >Tim, > >I talked with Ed about his solution at our Club meeting on Tuesday. > >It sounds like Ed's solution works because of gravity and time. With >dirty oil over water, gravity causes the denser rock particles to slowly >settle into the water so they can be removed by freezing. Running the >saw may dirty the oil, but the crud settles into the water when it is >not in use (and does not mix back into the oil). > >This would probably work with most trim saws that don't have a pump, as >long as the water level was below the bottom of the blade. If the saw >has a pump, the oil intake would need to be above the water level. > >And if you used only oil, it might work with a chest freezer if you let >the dirty oil/clean water mix stand for a few days before freezing. I'm >going to try it the next time my saw needs cleaning. > >My oil only saw (w/o pump) only gets infrequent use. When I start it up >it runs clean for a while before use stirs up the sludge that has >settled to the bottom. When I use it frequently it starts up dirty. > >It looks like time, and not temperature, is the key to making the >freezing trick work. > >Kreigh Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From albalmer at att.net Fri Oct 21 08:19:12 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Oct 21 08:19:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil Plus SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051018203933.026d93a8@orerockon.com> References: <101320052234.25227.434EE107000E808C0000628B216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <4351B45E.374@Tomaszewski.net> <4354634F.1436@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.5.3.2.20051017200157.02948e38@orerockon.com> <000b01c5d3e6$6475aea0$c4059f04@benjamin> <6.2.5.3.2.20051018203933.026d93a8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <435906F0.1060406@att.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > Correction: It doesn't work in a chest freezer. Maybe the temperature > has something to do with it. It doesn't get below freezing here more > than a few days a year... Don't retreat too quickly, Tim ;-) The process edben describes is not much like the original posting. The dirt precipitation is apparently taking place continuously, in the liquid state, and the freezing only separates the oil and (dirty) water. The key to the first proposal is in the mixing, I would think. Would the original poster elaborate on that? After all, oil and water don't mix :-) However, I could believe that vigorous mixing with a beater, or shaking, would allow the water to extract the dirt from the oil, and then the freezing would work. Probably even letting it settle, then carefully pouring off the top layer would work. > > At 06:18 AM 10/18/2005, you wrote: > > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 11:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil >> >> >>> I had heard the same thing. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. >> >> >> >> I don't know where you live, Tim, but here in Michigan, in the winter >> months, the great out of doors makes the best oil separator you'll >> ever need. The system really works. The dirt does end up in the >> water, not the oil! Just freeze, then pour off the clean oil! >> >> Some time back I had a drop saw with sort of a sump in which the >> recirculating pump sat. I filled the saw with water (with an additive >> to prevent corrosion), almost to the point where it overflowed into >> the pump. Then I filled the rest of the way with oil. Much less of >> it! The pump circulated only the oil. The water below kept the oil >> clean, really clean. At cleaning time, it was necessary only to direct >> the sump pump outlet into a bucket, then add more water to the saw >> until all of the oil had collected in the bucket. You were left with >> all of the sludge and water, much easier to clean out than sludgy oil >> ever is! And this method doesn't even require a Michigan Winter to >> make it work! >> >> And if you're anywhere near Grand Rapids, don't miss the Indian Mounds >> Rock & Mineral Club's Annual Silent Auction TONIGHT! >> Auction will be at Wesley Park United Methodist Church, 1150 32nd St. >> S.W., Wyoming, Michigan (Grand Rapids Area). The Auction starts at 7 >> PM and there will be mineral specimens and lapidary rough galore. >> You'll also find an equipment table loaded with just about anything >> you may need. I know there will be two fifteen inch Lortone Vibrating >> Laps starting at a low, low minimum bid 'cause I'm bringing them. >> > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rockcurrier at cs.com Fri Oct 21 09:49:15 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Oct 21 09:41:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorite from Dalnegorsk References: <200510210305.j9L35Ffs029956@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003f01c5d65f$60d90640$36e3a5d8@rock5> JR The most common black minerals from Dalnegorsk are sphalerite and galena and they are typically associated with fluorite. You should be able to tell if it is sphalerite or galena by looking carefully at the black mineral on the fluorite carefully (with a magnafying glass). Both sphalerite and galena have perfect cleavage. In addition, galena is opaque and sphalerite is usually somewhat transparent to translucent, expecially on thin edges. The best fluorites from Dalnegorsk are indeed world class and some have sold for more than $100,000 and it is understandable that you would like to upgrade the modest specimen that you bought at Springfield. You know it is not at all impossible for you to visit Dalnegorsk and buy some specimens yourself. I think Air Alaska still has a two or two or three times a week flight form Anchorage to Khaborovsk sp? and Vladavostock sp? and from either of those towns it is not far to Dalnegorsk. There is a good hotel in town called the hotel Bor (Boron). Rock From rockcurrier at cs.com Fri Oct 21 09:49:27 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Oct 21 09:41:27 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorite from Dalnegorsk References: <200510210305.j9L35Ffs029956@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004001c5d65f$66ede0f0$36e3a5d8@rock5> JR The most common black minerals from Dalnegorsk are sphalerite and galena and they are typically associated with fluorite. You should be able to tell if it is sphalerite or galena by looking carefully at the black mineral on the fluorite carefully (with a magnafying glass). Both sphalerite and galena have perfect cleavage. In addition, galena is opaque and sphalerite is usually somewhat transparent to translucent, expecially on thin edges. The best fluorites from Dalnegorsk are indeed world class and some have sold for more than $100,000 and it is understandable that you would like to upgrade the modest specimen that you bought at Springfield. You know it is not at all impossible for you to visit Dalnegorsk and buy some specimens yourself. I think Air Alaska still has a two or two or three times a week flight form Anchorage to Khaborovsk sp? and Vladavostock sp? and from either of those towns it is not far to Dalnegorsk. There is a good hotel in town called the hotel Bor (Boron). Rock From Bobslgn at aol.com Fri Oct 21 10:32:11 2005 From: Bobslgn at aol.com (Bobslgn@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 21 10:32:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Help Finding Collecting Sites Message-ID: <55.7e4f01d5.308a801b@aol.com> List Readers, A question for California Stanislaus County. I am trying to find out if there is any collecting access to the Manganese areas adjacent to I5, in and around Ingram Creek/Canyon. The area is between Del Puerto Canyon and Lone Tree Creek. I thought some of this land was BLM, however all I have been able to find is locked gates. This area is relatively close to home and would make a good day trip for my 10 year old son and I. Any suggestions. In fact any suggestions for day trips from the Modesto CA., Stanislaus County, area would be appreciated. Thanks,Bob --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 21 10:39:03 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Oct 21 10:39:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil Plus SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.3.2.20051021073935.026d8620@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <20051021173903.31637.qmail@web34311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rather than freezing to separate the oil & water, you could use a separatory funnel. It would be easier than trying to decant the oil. Just use a glass funnel with a stopcock on the bottom (or connect a stopcock to the bottom with tubing). put the mixture in the funnel and let it settle/separate. The dirt will sink into the water layer. When it's separated, open the stopcock slowly and drain off the water layer. Turnoff the stopcock just when the oil layer reaches it. Now you have clean oil in the funnel. Jim Daly --- Tim Fisher wrote: > Please do try it & let us know; I have and so have > friends and as I > said it did not work. I would guess you would have > to let it stand > for quite a while for it to work; I may have let it > sit for a day or > two but I am guessing a week would be more like it. > Then again, it > takes about a week with the paper bag method. I > guess it all comes > down to using the method that works for you...and > frankly, > deliberately pouring water into my saws is something > I could not in > good conscience do. Where there is water, there is > corrosion. I doubt > that the water is isolated in the bottom of the tank > enough to never > contact the blade or arbor except in the smallest > saws/ slowest > rotating blades. The thought of spraying the inside > of my saw with > water every time I turn it on gives me nightmares... > > At 07:52 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote: > > >Tim, > > > >I talked with Ed about his solution at our Club > meeting on Tuesday. > > > >It sounds like Ed's solution works because of > gravity and time. With > >dirty oil over water, gravity causes the denser > rock particles to slowly > >settle into the water so they can be removed by > freezing. Running the > >saw may dirty the oil, but the crud settles into > the water when it is > >not in use (and does not mix back into the oil). > > > >This would probably work with most trim saws that > don't have a pump, as > >long as the water level was below the bottom of the > blade. If the saw > >has a pump, the oil intake would need to be above > the water level. > > > >And if you used only oil, it might work with a > chest freezer if you let > >the dirty oil/clean water mix stand for a few days > before freezing. I'm > >going to try it the next time my saw needs > cleaning. > > > >My oil only saw (w/o pump) only gets infrequent > use. When I start it up > >it runs clean for a while before use stirs up the > sludge that has > >settled to the bottom. When I use it frequently it > starts up dirty. > > > >It looks like time, and not temperature, is the key > to making the > >freezing trick work. > > > >Kreigh > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From Anthony.Schlinsog at GEHA.com Fri Oct 21 10:55:00 2005 From: Anthony.Schlinsog at GEHA.com (Schlinsog, Anthony) Date: Fri Oct 21 10:54:01 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where to Collect in the Phoenix Area Message-ID: <906953B87A7503449984D1190DEF90D705B43C@gehamail02.GEHA.COM> Greetings! I just found out (about an hour ago) that I will be visiting the Phoenix/Tucson area on business in a couple of weeks, so I plan on flying out the Friday before and spending the weekend camping and collecting in the area. Any ideas on what/where/how/when I could go collecting so I could get "the biggest bang for my buck" given my limited time and unfamiliarity with the area? I've got some books back at home I can consult, but thought you folks would know more. Thanks for any advice you might have! Anthony Schlinsog Shawnee, Kansas Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this email belongs to the sender which is confidential and may be legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately delete and destroy all copies of the original email and its attachments, and notify the sender. From mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 21 10:59:36 2005 From: mick at mineralist.demon.co.uk (Mick Cooper) Date: Fri Oct 21 10:59:37 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Specimen discussion - Dalnegorsk fluorite References: <20051020014237.157.qmail@web34601.mail.mud.yahoo.com><001701c5d610$c996a100$78f1edc1@mpc1> <4358B636.6010102@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <001101c5d669$337e42f0$78f1edc1@mpc1> >> The mineralogy of the Dalnegorsk deposit is relatively simple, > > Opps Mike, I see this differently.:-) You're right in principle of course (I have the book too), I guess I was thinking of what is generally available as collector pieces. It doesn't have the seething complexity of secondary minerals found in some other deposits. All depends on what I meant by "relatively"! Mick From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Oct 21 11:19:21 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Oct 21 11:16:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil Plus SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT References: <20051021173903.31637.qmail@web34311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01c5d66b$f5e382e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I find it simpler to put a rock in the bottom of a bucket with a hole in the bottom, then set that bucket over another bucket and put the muck into a grocery bag in the upper bucket and let drain. I really don't see what water adds to the process, as you can always let the muck settle to the bottom of a bucket and decanter good oil off the top. After that you can use the grocery bag trick for the rest of the muck. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil Plus SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT > Rather than freezing to separate the oil & water, you > could use a separatory funnel. It would be easier than > trying to decant the oil. Just use a glass funnel with > a stopcock on the bottom (or connect a stopcock to the > bottom with tubing). put the mixture in the funnel and > let it settle/separate. The dirt will sink into the > water layer. When it's separated, open the stopcock > slowly and drain off the water layer. Turnoff the > stopcock just when the oil layer reaches it. Now you > have clean oil in the funnel. > Jim Daly > > --- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > Please do try it & let us know; I have and so have > > friends and as I > > said it did not work. I would guess you would have > > to let it stand > > for quite a while for it to work; I may have let it > > sit for a day or > > two but I am guessing a week would be more like it. > > Then again, it > > takes about a week with the paper bag method. I > > guess it all comes > > down to using the method that works for you...and > > frankly, > > deliberately pouring water into my saws is something > > I could not in > > good conscience do. Where there is water, there is > > corrosion. I doubt > > that the water is isolated in the bottom of the tank > > enough to never > > contact the blade or arbor except in the smallest > > saws/ slowest > > rotating blades. The thought of spraying the inside > > of my saw with > > water every time I turn it on gives me nightmares... > > > > At 07:52 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote: > > > > >Tim, > > > > > >I talked with Ed about his solution at our Club > > meeting on Tuesday. > > > > > >It sounds like Ed's solution works because of > > gravity and time. With > > >dirty oil over water, gravity causes the denser > > rock particles to slowly > > >settle into the water so they can be removed by > > freezing. Running the > > >saw may dirty the oil, but the crud settles into > > the water when it is > > >not in use (and does not mix back into the oil). > > > > > >This would probably work with most trim saws that > > don't have a pump, as > > >long as the water level was below the bottom of the > > blade. If the saw > > >has a pump, the oil intake would need to be above > > the water level. > > > > > >And if you used only oil, it might work with a > > chest freezer if you let > > >the dirty oil/clean water mix stand for a few days > > before freezing. I'm > > >going to try it the next time my saw needs > > cleaning. > > > > > >My oil only saw (w/o pump) only gets infrequent > > use. When I start it up > > >it runs clean for a while before use stirs up the > > sludge that has > > >settled to the bottom. When I use it frequently it > > starts up dirty. > > > > > >It looks like time, and not temperature, is the key > > to making the > > >freezing trick work. > > > > > >Kreigh > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Fri Oct 21 11:47:23 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Oct 21 11:47:26 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil Plus SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT In-Reply-To: <20051021173903.31637.qmail@web34311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.5.3.2.20051021073935.026d8620@orerockon.com> <20051021173903.31637.qmail@web34311.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Heh, have you _bought_ a big sep funnel lately? I think you are in for sticker shock. BK On 10/21/05, Jim Daly wrote: > > Rather than freezing to separate the oil & water, you > could use a separatory funnel. It would be easier than > trying to decant the oil. Just use a glass funnel with > a stopcock on the bottom (or connect a stopcock to the > bottom with tubing). put the mixture in the funnel and > let it settle/separate. The dirt will sink into the > water layer. When it's separated, open the stopcock > slowly and drain off the water layer. Turnoff the > stopcock just when the oil layer reaches it. Now you > have clean oil in the funnel. > Jim Daly > > --- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > Please do try it & let us know; I have and so have > > friends and as I > > said it did not work. I would guess you would have > > to let it stand > > for quite a while for it to work; I may have let it > > sit for a day or > > two but I am guessing a week would be more like it. > > Then again, it > > takes about a week with the paper bag method. I > > guess it all comes > > down to using the method that works for you...and > > frankly, > > deliberately pouring water into my saws is something > > I could not in > > good conscience do. Where there is water, there is > > corrosion. I doubt > > that the water is isolated in the bottom of the tank > > enough to never > > contact the blade or arbor except in the smallest > > saws/ slowest > > rotating blades. The thought of spraying the inside > > of my saw with > > water every time I turn it on gives me nightmares... > > > > At 07:52 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote: > > > > >Tim, > > > > > >I talked with Ed about his solution at our Club > > meeting on Tuesday. > > > > > >It sounds like Ed's solution works because of > > gravity and time. With > > >dirty oil over water, gravity causes the denser > > rock particles to slowly > > >settle into the water so they can be removed by > > freezing. Running the > > >saw may dirty the oil, but the crud settles into > > the water when it is > > >not in use (and does not mix back into the oil). > > > > > >This would probably work with most trim saws that > > don't have a pump, as > > >long as the water level was below the bottom of the > > blade. If the saw > > >has a pump, the oil intake would need to be above > > the water level. > > > > > >And if you used only oil, it might work with a > > chest freezer if you let > > >the dirty oil/clean water mix stand for a few days > > before freezing. I'm > > >going to try it the next time my saw needs > > cleaning. > > > > > >My oil only saw (w/o pump) only gets infrequent > > use. When I start it up > > >it runs clean for a while before use stirs up the > > sludge that has > > >settled to the bottom. When I use it frequently it > > starts up dirty. > > > > > >It looks like time, and not temperature, is the key > > to making the > > >freezing trick work. > > > > > >Kreigh > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jonee at epix.net Fri Oct 21 13:07:36 2005 From: jonee at epix.net (E.L. Jones) Date: Fri Oct 21 13:08:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] textbooks:Mineralogical and Geological/Pennsylvania Geological Pubs In-Reply-To: <43589242.3030202@verizon.net> References: <005401c5d32e$db7bb0c0$6401a8c0@mc.at.cox.net> <004b01c5d50b$b23e21a0$6401a8c0@maingear> <435888F1.8090609@epix.net> <43589242.3030202@verizon.net> Message-ID: <43594A88.7000508@epix.net> DonH wrote: " Are you talking about "An Introduction to the Rock Forming Minerals," by Deer, Howie, and Zussman, and are you sure it's out of print? " Hummm...ahhhh. Yes, I was talking about Deer's book and No, I am not sure about its current print status. Most of my technical texts are in storage in preparation for my move back to Tennessee. The book I was thinking of is "An Intoduction to the Rock Forming Minerals" but Deer also wrote a multi-volume set on the Silicates " Rock Forming Minerals" . I might have assumed it was out of print as it was first published decades ago. I know it was reprinted as late as 1992 Here are a few titles on the subject; nuts & bolts, nitty-gritty mineral and rockrock and Mineral *An Introduction to the Rock Forming Minerals* by Deer et al. There are dozens for under $20 most around $1 *Description:* 2nd Ed, 1992 BRAND NEW PAPERBACK. 234 X 156mm. 712 pgs. Astronomy & meteorology. This text attempts to provide a short account of the more important minerals encountered in many undergraduate courses in mineralogy and petrology. It also aims to present the basic data($80) *Rock Forming Minerals- A Series (4-6? Vols) *Deer.* Rock and Rock Minerals **Description:* - 1979. Later printing. A contemporary successor to the Louis V. Pirsson and Adolph Knopf editions, providing a guide and reference that explains how rocks occur, their commercial usage, and how to identify them through macroscopic, handspecimen features. Gives complete coverage of rock-forming minerals, rocks and man-made, rock-like materials, as well as meteorites, impactites, grossans, and more. Tables are provided for identifications based on megascopic examinations and simple field tests that require no sophisticated laboratory equipment. Plus, numerous illustrations represent rocks and rock-forming minerals as they appear in nature Thin Section Studies: *Atlas of Rock Forming Minerals in Thin Section,* Giliford & MacKenzie *A KEY TO THE COMMON ROCK-FORMING MINERALS IN THIN SECTION Petrography* DURRELL *Dana's Minerals and How to Study Them* 4th Ed 1997 Cornelius S. Hurlbut, W. Edwin Sharp, Edward Salisbury Dana Elton From lanny at lrream.com Fri Oct 21 15:47:45 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Oct 21 15:46:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] textbooks (Lanny?) In-Reply-To: <43585895.4020009@verizon.net> References: <005401c5d32e$db7bb0c0$6401a8c0@mc.at.cox.net> <004b01c5d50b$b23e21a0$6401a8c0@maingear> <43585895.4020009@verizon.net> Message-ID: Hi Don, Yes, I still publish MinDex, a CD-based index to the mineral periodicals. Information is on my website: www.lrream.com. Regards, Lanny On Oct 20, 2005, at 7:55 PM, DonH wrote: > > Hi, > > (see also off-list reply) Lanny Ream once sold a CD-based mineral > magazine index--Lanny, do you still do that? > > Also, your local college or university, if they have a geology or > earth science department, might be able to help. If you still live > anywhere near Philadelphia, Bryn Mawr, University of Penn, and Rutgers > may have good local documentation, among others. > > Time is short here (must study) but I hope this short note helps. > > Best, > Don > > >> I would like it to be >> as specific as possible even down to individual minerals. Failing >> that, is >> there a source of geological or mineralogical papers written about >> local >> areas? > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 21 16:14:46 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Oct 21 16:14:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil Plus SHOW ANNOUNCEMENT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051021231446.40219.qmail@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> No, that's why I suggested also using a regular funnel and attaching a stopcock to it with tubing- always another way to skin a cat! Jim --- J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Heh, have you _bought_ a big sep funnel lately? I > think you are in for > sticker shock. > BK > > On 10/21/05, Jim Daly wrote: > > > > Rather than freezing to separate the oil & water, > you > > could use a separatory funnel. It would be easier > than > > trying to decant the oil. Just use a glass funnel > with > > a stopcock on the bottom (or connect a stopcock to > the > > bottom with tubing). put the mixture in the funnel > and > > let it settle/separate. The dirt will sink into > the > > water layer. When it's separated, open the > stopcock > > slowly and drain off the water layer. Turnoff the > > stopcock just when the oil layer reaches it. Now > you > > have clean oil in the funnel. > > Jim Daly > > > > --- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > > > Please do try it & let us know; I have and so > have > > > friends and as I > > > said it did not work. I would guess you would > have > > > to let it stand > > > for quite a while for it to work; I may have let > it > > > sit for a day or > > > two but I am guessing a week would be more like > it. > > > Then again, it > > > takes about a week with the paper bag method. I > > > guess it all comes > > > down to using the method that works for > you...and > > > frankly, > > > deliberately pouring water into my saws is > something > > > I could not in > > > good conscience do. Where there is water, there > is > > > corrosion. I doubt > > > that the water is isolated in the bottom of the > tank > > > enough to never > > > contact the blade or arbor except in the > smallest > > > saws/ slowest > > > rotating blades. The thought of spraying the > inside > > > of my saw with > > > water every time I turn it on gives me > nightmares... > > > > > > At 07:52 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote: > > > > > > >Tim, > > > > > > > >I talked with Ed about his solution at our Club > > > meeting on Tuesday. > > > > > > > >It sounds like Ed's solution works because of > > > gravity and time. With > > > >dirty oil over water, gravity causes the denser > > > rock particles to slowly > > > >settle into the water so they can be removed by > > > freezing. Running the > > > >saw may dirty the oil, but the crud settles > into > > > the water when it is > > > >not in use (and does not mix back into the > oil). > > > > > > > >This would probably work with most trim saws > that > > > don't have a pump, as > > > >long as the water level was below the bottom of > the > > > blade. If the saw > > > >has a pump, the oil intake would need to be > above > > > the water level. > > > > > > > >And if you used only oil, it might work with a > > > chest freezer if you let > > > >the dirty oil/clean water mix stand for a few > days > > > before freezing. I'm > > > >going to try it the next time my saw needs > > > cleaning. > > > > > > > >My oil only saw (w/o pump) only gets infrequent > > > use. When I start it up > > > >it runs clean for a while before use stirs up > the > > > sludge that has > > > >settled to the bottom. When I use it frequently > it > > > starts up dirty. > > > > > > > >It looks like time, and not temperature, is the > key > > > to making the > > > >freezing trick work. > > > > > > > >Kreigh > > > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From johnjold at comcast.net Fri Oct 21 17:48:07 2005 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Fri Oct 21 17:48:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: cleaning lube oil by freezing Message-ID: <0a30ef268866e4cbb0b853a998229371@comcast.net> I have not used the freeze method. I just strain the oil through a double layer of paper towels. EdBen says it works in Michigan and Tim says it doesn't work in his freezer. I think it works here in Michigan due to the freeze thaw nature of our winters. As I see it the water freezes with the oil on top, any dirt in the oil settles to the top of the ice, when it thaws the dirt enters the water. The oil is cleaner and the water dirtier as a result. If Tim only gave it a one shot freeze the process could not work as well. If it is worth the effort, try taking it in and out a few times. Though I think I will stick with the towels since it is usually Spring before I get around to any annual cleaning. Yeah, Yeah once a year whether it needs it or not! SERIOUSLY, now I don't take having clean oil to be a great priority since even if I scrub it out with a toothbrush before I replace the oil, it will be dirty soon after like the first time I use it. I more or less scrape out the layer of expensive dust off the bottom and add oil as needed. I would never treat my car this badly but I don't see any pay off in being obsessive about dirty lapidary oil. I bought one of those Lortone drop saws with an oil pump but have not used it yet. It looks to me to be like most Lapidary Saws, designed to be scraped out on occasion. The inner part of the saw lifts out of the pan making it easy to get at the gem dust. This is my post from this week on the Rockhounds Lapidary list. I sometimes forget how many of these lists I am on and that they are not the same. I tend to pay more attention to the problems rather than the actual list. I am sure I am not the only one guilty of this. "Have you tried one of the "food grade" mineral oils? I like them. Odorless and cuts well. They are marketed with various brand names, including Lortone. Rob Kulakofsky sells it at http://www.cabbingmachines.com/coolants.shtml" It came out on another list that food grade mineral oil, laxative mineral oil and baby oil are the same thing. I wrote in about this after Ron from Catskill Mountain Gems turned me on to this posibility. At Walmart prices ($1.29 for 1pint and 4 fluid ounces) the cost for baby oil worked out to under $8.50 a gallon. Since shipping adds considerably to the already high cost of brand name lube oil, this seems like a bargain to me. I think watching the ads for sales at drug store chains could even cut that cost. It does say "scented" but so far It does not remind me of diapers when I go into the rock room. I, like many rockhounds I have known, regard "cheap" as a high form of compliment. In this case baby oil is a relatively safe form of lubricant at a reasonable cost. I regard it as far better than the more horrifying methods like using antifreeze. John J From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Oct 21 18:01:10 2005 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Oct 21 18:01:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorite from Dalnegorsk Message-ID: <20051022010110.52517.qmail@web34604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: Thanks, everyone, for all the feedback! I'm certain the bits of matrix are not galena - I grew up around lead, and this substance isn't metallic at all. When I scratched it using a tool steel point, there was no sign of it being ductile, like scratching galena. The first thought I had was ilvaite, the second was sphalerite...so I am gratified by the suggestions those of you with far more knowledge and experience that I have that match my own supposition. Rock, I was once to the British Virgin Islands, and visited CampoBello, the Roosevelt family summer camp just over the border into Canada from Maine, and entered Canada once as a youngster with my parents...so your suggestion that I just go to Dalnegorsk and look at the minerals in situ is totally fascinating, like a snake coiled on my chest looking me in the eye. Well, I don't mind snakes at all, so that picture isn't nearly as serious as a phobic person might think... Thanks for the suggestion, maybe next spring?!? I'm going to try to visit a cousin in HI in January and one in AZ in February, that's likely to eat all my vacation time for a while, so maybe in the fall! I think either Ilvaite or Sphalerite, judging on the scratch test...I didn't mind scratching it since it's matrix. It scratched easily, and then even crumbled when the tool reached the edge of the bit I scratched. I was using the smallest screwdriver blade in a Leatherman tool (pretty hard steel, I bet)...so it could still be either sphalerite or ilvaite. The test is probably answering the question, is there zinc in it, or is there calcium and silicon in it? This list is wonderful! Even when we drift off topic a little bit sometimes, it's still interesting. Thanks again, JR in WV __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Oct 21 19:22:11 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Oct 21 19:10:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] textbooks:Mineralogical and Geological/PennsylvaniaGeological Pubs References: <005401c5d32e$db7bb0c0$6401a8c0@mc.at.cox.net> <004b01c5d50b$b23e21a0$6401a8c0@maingear> <435888F1.8090609@epix.net> <43589242.3030202@verizon.net> <43594A88.7000508@epix.net> Message-ID: <000a01c5d6af$695bc550$bd79a118@feldsparflash> My copy of An Introduction to The Rock Forming Minerals by Deer, Howie & Zussman, 2nd Edition is a reprint dated 1996. This classic must be out there as used or a reprint. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.L. Jones" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] textbooks:Mineralogical and Geological/PennsylvaniaGeological Pubs > DonH wrote: > " Are you talking about "An Introduction to the Rock Forming Minerals," > by Deer, Howie, and Zussman, and are you sure it's out of print? " > > Hummm...ahhhh. Yes, I was talking about Deer's book and No, I am not > sure about its current print status. Most of my technical texts are in > storage in preparation for my move back to Tennessee. The book I was > thinking of is "An Intoduction to the Rock Forming Minerals" but Deer > also wrote a multi-volume set on the Silicates " Rock Forming Minerals" > . I might have assumed it was out of print as it was first published > decades ago. I know it was reprinted as late as 1992 > > Here are a few titles on the subject; nuts & bolts, nitty-gritty mineral > and rockrock and Mineral > *An Introduction to the Rock Forming Minerals* by Deer et al. There are > dozens for under $20 most around $1 > *Description:* 2nd Ed, 1992 BRAND NEW PAPERBACK. 234 X 156mm. 712 pgs. > Astronomy & meteorology. This text attempts to provide a short account > of the more important minerals encountered in many undergraduate courses > in mineralogy and petrology. It also aims to present the basic data($80) > > *Rock Forming Minerals- A Series (4-6? Vols) *Deer.* > > Rock and Rock Minerals > **Description:* - 1979. Later printing. A contemporary successor to the > Louis V. Pirsson and Adolph Knopf editions, providing a guide and > reference that explains how rocks occur, their commercial usage, and how > to identify them through macroscopic, handspecimen features. Gives > complete coverage of rock-forming minerals, rocks and man-made, > rock-like materials, as well as meteorites, impactites, grossans, and > more. Tables are provided for identifications based on megascopic > examinations and simple field tests that require no sophisticated > laboratory equipment. Plus, numerous illustrations represent rocks and > rock-forming minerals as they appear in nature > > Thin Section Studies: > *Atlas of Rock Forming Minerals in Thin Section,* Giliford & MacKenzie > *A KEY TO THE COMMON ROCK-FORMING MINERALS IN THIN SECTION Petrography* > DURRELL > > *Dana's Minerals and How to Study Them* 4th Ed 1997 Cornelius S. > Hurlbut, W. Edwin Sharp, Edward Salisbury Dana > > Elton > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From rocknate at gmail.com Sat Oct 22 07:13:05 2005 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sat Oct 22 07:13:09 2005 Subject: MinDex recommendation - was Re: [Rockhounds] textbooks (Lanny?) Message-ID: For those who may not be familiar with Mindex, I highly recommend it to anyone who has a need to find previous articles on minerals or localities. I use it primarily to research information on localities that I either want to visit or from which I have acquired specimens. I have also used it to find additional background information for a club newsletter article or meeting presentation. Since I bought my copy of MinDex a few years ago, it has saved me hours of searching through my back issue collection of Rocks & Minerals and Min. Record. Now I can't imagine not having it available. I am a very satisfied customer. Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 10/21/05, Lanny wrote: > Hi Don, > > Yes, I still publish MinDex, a CD-based index to the mineral > periodicals. Information is on my website: www.lrream.com. > > Regards, > > Lanny > From tim at orerockon.com Sat Oct 22 08:51:11 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Oct 22 08:51:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Fall Sale on Rough & Slabs, Sunstones, Obsidian & Fossils Extended thru 10/28 Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051022084741.026c7ee0@orerockon.com> Just a quick note to let everyone know that my previously announced sale has been extended through Friday 10/28. I am offering most of my lapidary rough and slabs for 50% off. This includes virtually all lapidary rough & slabs, ALL fossils, ALL Dust Devil sunstones and ALL obsidian except preforms for knapping. Just order half of what you need if you are using the PayPal cart; I will double the quantities. And some good news: I fixed the order forms! Here's the links to the sale pages: Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Sunstones: http://OreRockOn.com/sunstone Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 22 11:26:54 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sat Oct 22 11:26:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where to Collect in the Phoenix Area In-Reply-To: <906953B87A7503449984D1190DEF90D705B43C@gehamail02.GEHA.COM> Message-ID: <20051022182654.86837.qmail@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> There are plenty of collecting opportunities in the Phoenix area- depends on what you're looking for, what kind of transportation you have, and how much time. Most of the places I've been would require 4-WD or at least good ground clearance. Two are for primarily micro material- zeolites. More info, please. Jim Daly --- "Schlinsog, Anthony" wrote: > Greetings! I just found out (about an hour ago) > that I will be visiting > the Phoenix/Tucson area on business in a couple of > weeks, so I plan on > flying out the Friday before and spending the > weekend camping and > collecting in the area. > > Any ideas on what/where/how/when I could go > collecting so I could get > "the biggest bang for my buck" given my limited time > and unfamiliarity > with the area? I've got some books back at home I > can consult, but > thought you folks would know more. Thanks for any > advice you might > have! > > Anthony Schlinsog > Shawnee, Kansas > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Oct 22 11:54:00 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Oct 22 11:54:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where to Collect in the Phoenix Area In-Reply-To: <20051022182654.86837.qmail@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051022182654.86837.qmail@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <435A8AC8.5080506@verizon.net> Jim Daly wrote: > There are plenty of collecting opportunities in the > Phoenix area- depends on what you're looking for, what > kind of transportation you have, and how much time. I wsa going to mention the same thing--the question is, how far from Phoenix are you willing to drive? Also, what do you want to collect? There is something for everyone in Arizona, so what one person recommends as a collecting site might not appeal to you at all (i.e., petrified wood, zeolites from Horeshoe Dam, acicular malachite from the Monarch Mine, "Apache Tear" obsidian from Globe if you can even get it any longer, fire agate, evaporites and pseudomorphs at Camp Verde--so many choices). Some places offer easy pickings of mediocre or low quality, but if you don't have any samples of "mineral X," those pickings might be great for you. On the other hand, if you're looking for fire agate, you might have a hard time finding something good, but it may be worth the trip for you to try even if you come away empty-handed. You might want to contact Bill Gardner in Glendale: wggardner@aol.com . He holds several claims and can also act as a guide to local collecting areas. He is very knowledgeable and helpful. There would likely be fees involved, depending on whether you just want a collecting tour or want to collect at a per-pound site, but those fees are quite reasonable and you get a lot of value for your dollars. Most of all, he has a truck that can get you to a lot of these places. If you have questions, send him an e-mail. You are probably looking for free sites, as anyone would, but you are going to be limited by time, the ability to find certain localities with few or no landmarks, and the ability to get there; not to mention the possibility you might not find anything. I lived in the Phoenix area for 4 months and there are few localities listed in the guidebooks where I could go with my standard mid-sized sedan. So if you're going to be there for a short time and want to have a good chance of finding something to take home, you'll definitely want to follow specific directions from folks on the list or hook up with a local. So Anthony, let us know. Meanwhile, back to pre-calculus homework... Hope this helps, Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 22 20:35:08 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 22 20:35:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens is rumbling again (code Orange) Message-ID: <435B04DB.663@Tomaszewski.net> My local TV news (in MI) reports tonight that Mt. St. Helens (in WA) is waking up and signaling an impending eruption; geology in the news always gets my attention ;-}. The volcano cam can be found at http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/ The latest status can be found at http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Cascades/CurrentActivity/current_updates.html (the long url may wrap) Kreigh From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Oct 22 21:18:07 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Oct 22 21:18:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens is rumbling again (code Orange) In-Reply-To: <435B04DB.663@Tomaszewski.net> References: <435B04DB.663@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <435B0EFF.1020705@verizon.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > My local TV news (in MI) reports tonight that Mt. St. Helens (in WA) is > waking up and signaling an impending eruption; geology in the news > always gets my attention ;-}. This is going to be interesting. When we had our volcanology lecture, the professor (who is an igneous petrologist by nature) was going on about how the first time, it took quite a while to get any information on what was happening, to which none of the other students could relate, since none of them were even born then. Now, however, we have remote data sensors and GPS and webcams, and we can watch the whole thing live in real-time; at least until the nearby sensors and cameras are destroyed. It's almost as if some folks are looking forward to it. Last time, I lived in New Jersey; this time, I'm close enough to get some of the effects but not nearly close enough to worry about it... I think... time to wrap sticky tape around a pole and put it outside. Ummmmmm... by the way... the JRO webcam has nothing but static on it... should I be concerned? Don From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Oct 22 21:18:39 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Oct 22 21:18:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens is rumbling again (code Orange) In-Reply-To: <435B04DB.663@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Thanks Kreigh! I added the site to my favorites list to make it easy to monitor the latest activity there. Glenn From: Kreigh Tomaszewski <Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> My local TV news (in MI) reports tonight that Mt. St. Helens (in WA) is waking up and signaling an impending eruption; geology in the news always gets my attention ;-}. The volcano cam can be found at  http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/ The latest status can be found at http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Volcanoes/Cascades/CurrentActivity/current_updates.html (the long url may wrap) Kreigh ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Search, shop, and browse smarter using tabs with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Oct 22 21:21:29 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Oct 22 21:21:32 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens is rumbling again (code Orange) In-Reply-To: <435B0EFF.1020705@verizon.net> Message-ID: Ummmmmm... by the way... the JRO webcam has nothing but static on it... should I be concerned? Don Just wait til daylight! Glenn ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It's free! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Oct 22 21:31:41 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Oct 22 21:31:40 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens is rumbling again (code Orange) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <435B122D.9020800@verizon.net> Glenn Wimpee wrote: > Ummmmmm... by the way... the JRO webcam has nothing but static on > it... should I be concerned? > > Don > > > Just wait til daylight! > > Glenn Oh.... yes.... those colors threw me off; if it would have been pitch black I might have realized what the problem was. I was expecting some ambient light, like stars or moonlight, but maybe the webcam isn't that sensitive. I think my brain is going... watching these on-line math lectures... must stay awake... From jsmall47 at earthlink.net Sun Oct 23 06:35:17 2005 From: jsmall47 at earthlink.net (Jim Small) Date: Sun Oct 23 06:34:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cleaning/Recycling Saw Oil In-Reply-To: <200510212315.j9LNF5J0021298@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200510212315.j9LNF5J0021298@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20051023092038.02536528@mail.earthlink.net> My apologies for chiming in so late on this. When I lived in NYS I used the "freeze in the Winter" method routinely, and it worked well. Since we have moved to Tennessee we are no longer subject to extreme cold, so I had to change my method somewhat. Here is the core of what I do, either up north or in the south: 1) separate as much oil as will flow through a brown paper bag in a week or so in a relatively (65 degrees F.) warm room. 2) put the oily residue, bag included in a five gallon black-plastic construction bucket. (turn it out of the bag if you don't want to have to filter again at step five) 3) add an equal amount (usually 1.5 to 2 gallons) of boiling or near boiling water (regular tap water heated on the kitchen stove) 4) stir the resultant mess as completely as possible for at least 5 or 10 minutes, and repeat until the liquid has cooled back to room temperature 5) ladle off the floating oil and pieces of bag which are now separated from the saw mud; filter through a kitchen colander kept for this purpose 6) thoroughly mix the now only slightly oily solid residue with an equal amount of fuller's earth (oil drier for auto shops) and then use this mixture as the "sand" in making sand mix concrete with some Portland cement My oil recovery using this method is over 90% and the concrete I make is acceptable at land fills everywhere as non-hazardous waste. Of course, If you are making a patio or something, you can put it in there, too! My original lapidary instructor in 1960 said that the de-oiled sludge also made a good base for cosmetics, but I've always treated this as a joke. Jim Small Small Wonders Lapidary Church Hill, TN From bhjc at earthlink.net Sun Oct 23 11:48:49 2005 From: bhjc at earthlink.net (Blue Heron Jewelry) Date: Sun Oct 23 11:49:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How is untreated Bisbee Turquoise rough graded and Message-ID: I am looking for some Bisbee spider web rough or already cabbed stones --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hkrocke at netscape.ca Sun Oct 23 15:33:01 2005 From: hkrocke at netscape.ca (hkrocke) Date: Sun Oct 23 15:36:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Help with Identification In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have received two rocks from New Zeeland, via a friend of a friend. Apparently there are a lot of them laying around in somebodys field there. Both have the same general shape and vary only in size. One is about 6 by 5 cm, the other 9 by 7 cm. They have a distinct geometric shape. Sort of cone shaped with the tip cut off. Looking from the top they are oval, raised and quite smooth. Much like a large Cabochon. Looking from the side, they slope inward at about 45 degrees, faintly fluted, like a cone coffee filter, but rough. On the bottom they are like the tip of the cone is cut off and similar in appearance to the top, only much smaller. Also orange peel dimpled and shiny. The overall colour is dark brown, a bit like sandstone with very faint black striping. Sedimentary ? They are the weirdest things, rockwise, that I have seen in a long time. I have no idea ! Any help will be greatly appreciated. Hilmar From kqhayes at chartermi.net Sun Oct 23 16:12:03 2005 From: kqhayes at chartermi.net (kqhayes@chartermi.net) Date: Sun Oct 23 16:12:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: www.mineral-auctions.com Message-ID: <4enjqj$1j5rogu@mxip19a.cluster1.charter.net> I thought I would give a quick update on www.mineral-auctions.com for the benefit of anyone who hasn't seen it lately. John Veevaert and I have spent the last 10 months working to develop an attractive, interesting mineral auction dedicated to providing interesting, high quality specimens. We are currently providing two auctions a week with one beginning on Tuesday at noon and ending on Thursday at 8 pm central time. The other one begins on either Friday or Saturday (depending on the mood of the administrator), and ends on Mondays at 8 pm central time. We have a buy now feature that allows users to purchase items for a set price in the first 24 hours of the listing. We also have 14 dealers located in the US and in Europe. We expect a few more will be added over the next few months. There is a code of conduct for buyers and sellers which does much to eliminate the hype and misrepresentation you sometimes see on eBay or other auctions. Anyway, if you haven't check us out... I invite you to do so. Thanks, Keith Hayes www.kqminerals.com www.mineral-auctions.com From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Oct 23 16:46:44 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Oct 23 16:44:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Help with Identification References: Message-ID: <000501c5d82c$06a0f6a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Sound like fossils. Baculites or Belemnites. http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=%20%22cone%20shaped%20fossils%22&btn G=Google+Search&sa=N&tab=wi ----- Original Message ----- From: "hkrocke" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 3:33 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Help with Identification > I have received two rocks from New Zeeland, via a friend of a friend. > Apparently there are a lot of them laying around in somebodys field > there. > Both have the same general shape and vary only in size. > One is about 6 by 5 cm, the other 9 by 7 cm. > They have a distinct geometric shape. Sort of cone shaped with the tip > cut off. > Looking from the top they are oval, raised and quite smooth. Much like > a large Cabochon. > Looking from the side, they slope inward at about 45 degrees, faintly > fluted, like a cone coffee filter, but rough. > On the bottom they are like the tip of the cone is cut off and similar > in appearance to the top, only much smaller. > Also orange peel dimpled and shiny. The overall colour is dark brown, a > bit like sandstone with very faint black striping. Sedimentary ? They > are the weirdest things, rockwise, that I have seen in a long time. I > have no idea ! > Any help will be greatly appreciated. > > Hilmar > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Oct 23 17:21:16 2005 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Oct 23 17:21:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Help with Identification References: <000501c5d82c$06a0f6a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <007401c5d830$d99d6d50$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Having someone try to identify rocks without seeing them is nearly impossible. In a field, rocks are shaped by millenia of weathering. As a result, the shape of field stone is not an important diagnostic feature. Compostion, color and texture are more significant. If you don't have access to a thin-sectioning machine and a polarizing microscope, the exact location and access to a geological map of the area where it was found will help in reducing the possibilities. New Zealand has a lot of igneous and sedimentary rock, so pinning down the type will require more than a general visual description. I suggest either posting a photo through a web site or taking the samples to a geologist at the closest university with a geology department. Alan > From: "hkrocke" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 3:33 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Help with Identification > > >> I have received two rocks from New Zeeland, via a friend of a friend. >> Apparently there are a lot of them laying around in somebodys field >> there. >> Both have the same general shape and vary only in size. >> One is about 6 by 5 cm, the other 9 by 7 cm. >> They have a distinct geometric shape. Sort of cone shaped with the tip >> cut off. >> Looking from the top they are oval, raised and quite smooth. Much like >> a large Cabochon. >> Looking from the side, they slope inward at about 45 degrees, faintly >> fluted, like a cone coffee filter, but rough. >> On the bottom they are like the tip of the cone is cut off and similar >> in appearance to the top, only much smaller. >> Also orange peel dimpled and shiny. The overall colour is dark brown, a >> bit like sandstone with very faint black striping. Sedimentary ? They >> are the weirdest things, rockwise, that I have seen in a long time. I >> have no idea ! >> Any help will be greatly appreciated. >> >> Hilmar From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Oct 23 17:53:17 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Oct 23 17:45:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scratch test galena, sphalerite, ilvaite References: <200510230103.j9N12whn015679@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003001c5d835$531860a0$36e3a5d8@rock5> JR, I think you may be able to tell the difference between the three minerals with the scratch test if you look carefully at the scratch while it is being made especially if you have a bit of sphalerite and galena to test for comparison at the same time you are testing your unknown. I don't know what kind of tool steel you have but I usually use the tip of my pocket knife which is a pretty good steel and probably about 5.5 in hardness, about the same as window glass. When you scratch galena it should not show ductile characteristics like metallic lead, but as you scratch it with a knife point it fragments, somewhat coarser than dust should be created and the scratched surface should show distinct cleavage if you look at them with a good lens, preferably a microscope. Sphalerite is a lot softer than ilvaite which is about 5.5-6 and it should scratch quite easily compared to ilvaite with a knife blade. If the sphalerite is broken at all anywhere should show perfect cleavage not something you will generally see with ilvaite. Probably the cleavage of sphalerite which is perfect in several directions should give it away compared to ilvaite's which is described as distinct. Also, I think the sphalerite from Dalnegorsk should show some transparency to translucency if you look at it carefully with a good lens, especially on the thin edges. I hope this may be of some use. If you can make a trip to Dalnegorsk, remember to do it in the summer. An overnight in Anchorage will usually let you pig out on great fresh salmon steaks. You will want to be careful about trying to take a lot of specimens out, it is quite difficult to export specimens from Russia. A few specimens in you luggage may not be a problem, but suitcases loaded with them might be confiscated. Unless you speak Russian your life will be made much easier if you have a translator. If you get there you can probably arrange to dig to your hearts content in the big open pit datolite mine that faces the hotel Bor across the narrow valley. There should be lots of open pockets to dig in although they are pretty well kept cleaned out by the locals. There is a nice little mineral museum in town and I think there are two. One is housed in a building that is part of the big refinery on the edge of town where datolite is crushed and purified and converted into sodium borates that are used for industrial purposes. The whole thing may be closed down by this time. I can't imagine that such a mine and conversion process could be competitive compared to the borate mines in California and Turkey where they dig nearly pure borax right out of the ground and only have to dissolve and recrystallize it for the sodium borate compounds that are saleable to industry. Well, to get some of them they must heat them up a bit to drive off some or all of the water. Molten sodium borate will eat up almost everything. Rock From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Oct 23 19:13:17 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sun Oct 23 19:15:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How is untreated Bisbee Turquoise rough graded and References: Message-ID: <00a701c5d840$8084caa0$5f87633f@marilyn> I have bisbee reply to me offline smtravis@plateautel.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blue Heron Jewelry" To: Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:48 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] How is untreated Bisbee Turquoise rough graded and >I am looking for some Bisbee spider web rough or already cabbed stones > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From leeper at molalla.net Sun Oct 23 22:08:43 2005 From: leeper at molalla.net (leeper) Date: Sun Oct 23 22:04:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Molalla rock formations Message-ID: <000c01c5d859$02d48be0$0b01a8c0@default> Well, some of you will remember me asking about these: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molal~10.jpg I took some of the various items I collected and soaked them in straight 20% Hydrochloric Acid overnight. Some of these "spires" showed some copper inside, but this illustrates it best: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molal~10.jpg I don't remember my chemistry that well, does Hydrochloric Acid dissolve copper? If it does, is there something else to soak it in for cleaning, that will not dissolve the copper? And for those that were curious if they were calcium based, the blue stuff and clear spires themselves seem to be unaffected by HCL Acid. So, what does this leave us with, for what the spires are made from? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Oct 23 22:26:55 2005 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Oct 23 22:26:49 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Molalla rock formations References: <000c01c5d859$02d48be0$0b01a8c0@default> Message-ID: <000901c5d85b$8d24f440$e8c1b3d1@TheBlackAdder> Your two URL's are the same, and I didn't see any copper. Do you mean metallic, shiny copper as in "native copper"? No, hydrochloric acid (HCL) does not dissolve copper, but will dissolve copper carbonate minerals such as malachite and azurite. OK then, the blue stuff and clear spires are not calcite or aragonite (calcium carbonate) which dissolves in HCL. My guess is the spires are chalcedony. If you have a broken piece of it with a sharp edge, see if it scratches glass. If it does it is probably chalcedony. Cheers, Erich Kern Murrieta, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "leeper" To: Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 10:08 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Molalla rock formations Well, some of you will remember me asking about these: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molal~10.jpg I took some of the various items I collected and soaked them in straight 20% Hydrochloric Acid overnight. Some of these "spires" showed some copper inside, but this illustrates it best: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molal~10.jpg I don't remember my chemistry that well, does Hydrochloric Acid dissolve copper? If it does, is there something else to soak it in for cleaning, that will not dissolve the copper? And for those that were curious if they were calcium based, the blue stuff and clear spires themselves seem to be unaffected by HCL Acid. So, what does this leave us with, for what the spires are made from? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Mon Oct 24 05:11:33 2005 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Oct 24 05:11:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Molalla rock formations In-Reply-To: <000901c5d85b$8d24f440$e8c1b3d1@TheBlackAdder> References: <000c01c5d859$02d48be0$0b01a8c0@default> <000901c5d85b$8d24f440$e8c1b3d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <6.2.5.3.2.20051024050930.028b1150@orerockon.com> The best explanation is that they are chalcedony coated natrolite needle sprays. Wire copper would be a strange association with zeolites & chalcedony in the Columbia River basalts, although wire pyrite does exist in at least one locality. At 10:26 PM 10/23/2005, you wrote: >Your two URL's are the same, and I didn't see any copper. Do you >mean metallic, >shiny copper as in "native copper"? > >No, hydrochloric acid (HCL) does not dissolve copper, but will >dissolve copper >carbonate minerals such as malachite and azurite. > >OK then, the blue stuff and clear spires are not calcite or >aragonite (calcium >carbonate) which dissolves in HCL. > >My guess is the spires are chalcedony. If you have a broken piece of >it with a sharp >edge, see if it scratches glass. If it does it is probably chalcedony. > >Cheers, >Erich Kern >Murrieta, CA Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Anthony.Schlinsog at GEHA.com Mon Oct 24 06:13:10 2005 From: Anthony.Schlinsog at GEHA.com (Schlinsog, Anthony) Date: Mon Oct 24 06:12:02 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where to Collect in the Phoenix Area Message-ID: <906953B87A7503449984D1190DEF90D705B440@gehamail02.GEHA.COM> Good morning! I'll be getting a standard rental car (probably a 4-door sedan so I won't have much ground clearance) when I arrive Friday morning. By Sunday evening, I will need to be down in Tucson, so I won't have much time. I am willing to consider any combination of driving/collecting during that time, but obviously the more time I spend behind the wheel the less time I'll have for collecting. Any ideas or directions? :) Thanks! Anthony -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jim Daly Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 1:27 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Where to Collect in the Phoenix Area There are plenty of collecting opportunities in the Phoenix area- depends on what you're looking for, what kind of transportation you have, and how much time. Most of the places I've been would require 4-WD or at least good ground clearance. Two are for primarily micro material- zeolites. More info, please. Jim Daly --- "Schlinsog, Anthony" wrote: > Greetings! I just found out (about an hour ago) that I will be > visiting the Phoenix/Tucson area on business in a couple of weeks, so > I plan on flying out the Friday before and spending the weekend > camping and collecting in the area. > > Any ideas on what/where/how/when I could go collecting so I could get > "the biggest bang for my buck" given my limited time and unfamiliarity > with the area? I've got some books back at home I can consult, but > thought you folks would know more. Thanks for any advice you might > have! > > Anthony Schlinsog > Shawnee, Kansas > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this email belongs to the sender which is confidential and may be legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately delete and destroy all copies of the original email and its attachments, and notify the sender. From Anthony.Schlinsog at GEHA.com Mon Oct 24 06:18:39 2005 From: Anthony.Schlinsog at GEHA.com (Schlinsog, Anthony) Date: Mon Oct 24 06:17:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where to Collect in the Phoenix Area Message-ID: <906953B87A7503449984D1190DEF90D705B441@gehamail02.GEHA.COM> Good morning! I really don't have much in my personal collection, but I give a lot of what I collect away to schools and young people and they tend not to be too particular... :) I'll try giving Bill Gardner a ring and see what he has to say. Thanks for any advice! Anthony -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 1:54 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Where to Collect in the Phoenix Area Jim Daly wrote: > There are plenty of collecting opportunities in the Phoenix area- > depends on what you're looking for, what kind of transportation you > have, and how much time. I wsa going to mention the same thing--the question is, how far from Phoenix are you willing to drive? Also, what do you want to collect? There is something for everyone in Arizona, so what one person recommends as a collecting site might not appeal to you at all (i.e., petrified wood, zeolites from Horeshoe Dam, acicular malachite from the Monarch Mine, "Apache Tear" obsidian from Globe if you can even get it any longer, fire agate, evaporites and pseudomorphs at Camp Verde--so many choices). Some places offer easy pickings of mediocre or low quality, but if you don't have any samples of "mineral X," those pickings might be great for you. On the other hand, if you're looking for fire agate, you might have a hard time finding something good, but it may be worth the trip for you to try even if you come away empty-handed. You might want to contact Bill Gardner in Glendale: wggardner@aol.com . He holds several claims and can also act as a guide to local collecting areas. He is very knowledgeable and helpful. There would likely be fees involved, depending on whether you just want a collecting tour or want to collect at a per-pound site, but those fees are quite reasonable and you get a lot of value for your dollars. Most of all, he has a truck that can get you to a lot of these places. If you have questions, send him an e-mail. You are probably looking for free sites, as anyone would, but you are going to be limited by time, the ability to find certain localities with few or no landmarks, and the ability to get there; not to mention the possibility you might not find anything. I lived in the Phoenix area for 4 months and there are few localities listed in the guidebooks where I could go with my standard mid-sized sedan. So if you're going to be there for a short time and want to have a good chance of finding something to take home, you'll definitely want to follow specific directions from folks on the list or hook up with a local. So Anthony, let us know. Meanwhile, back to pre-calculus homework... Hope this helps, Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Confidentiality Notice: The information contained in this email belongs to the sender which is confidential and may be legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on the contents of this email is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately delete and destroy all copies of the original email and its attachments, and notify the sender. From lehkerd at gvsu.edu Mon Oct 24 07:27:12 2005 From: lehkerd at gvsu.edu (David Lehker) Date: Mon Oct 24 07:27:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting in the Austin Tx. area? Message-ID: Hello all, I just learned that I will be in Austin TX. with a couple of extra days on my hands and a small rental truck. I've looked through the web and found a couple of ideas, but have found there is nothing like someone who's knows the area well. I love collecting agate, wood, and anything that looks cool without a microscope. Any suggestions are welcomed and appreciated. Also, thanks to all who contribute to the discussions. I learn a ton from you-all (see, I'm practicing my Texan drawl already). Dave David Lehker, MSW, CSW Grand Valley State University School of Social Work DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 616-331-6597 Fax - 616-331-6570 lehkerd@gvsu.edu From lanny at lrream.com Mon Oct 24 09:30:56 2005 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Oct 24 09:29:35 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Molalla rock formations In-Reply-To: <000c01c5d859$02d48be0$0b01a8c0@default> References: <000c01c5d859$02d48be0$0b01a8c0@default> Message-ID: Copper is affected by HCl; it doesn't quickly dissolve, but will quite slowlly and become pitted. A short dip in 20% will brighten it up, which may be too much for some collectors who prefer their copper unaltered. Copper is fairly common in the zeolite localities of the Columbia River basalts and the younger volcanics of NW Oregon and SW Washington. It often makes great micro specimens with tiny copper wires or crystals being visible inside transparent analcime or other minerals. From the appearance of your specimens, the chances are slim that they are anything other than chalcedony forming the stalactitic growths. As others have suggested, these may have formed over the needle-like zeolites (natrolite, mesolite or scolecite), or other mineral, such as aragonite (which also is sometimes found as needle-like crystals in the cavities with zeolites, quartz crystals and chalcedony. However, the "stalactites" may have a clay center, which is possible considering that in some of your photos the centers of some are dark brown. Or, they may simply be a stalactitic growth of chalcedony; it doesn't have to form around anything. Regards, Lanny On Oct 23, 2005, at 10:08 PM, leeper wrote: > Well, some of you will remember me asking about these: > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molal~10.jpg > > I took some of the various items I collected and soaked them in > straight 20% Hydrochloric Acid overnight. > > Some of these "spires" showed some copper inside, but this illustrates > it best: > http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molal~10.jpg > > I don't remember my chemistry that well, does Hydrochloric Acid > dissolve copper? > > If it does, is there something else to soak it in for cleaning, that > will not dissolve the copper? > > And for those that were curious if they were calcium based, the blue > stuff and clear spires themselves seem to be unaffected by HCL Acid. > > So, what does this leave us with, for what the spires are made from? > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From kahako at verizon.net Mon Oct 24 11:16:52 2005 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Oct 24 11:16:51 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:Galapagos eruption In-Reply-To: <435B04DB.663@Tomaszewski.net> References: <435B04DB.663@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20051024081150.02241008@incoming.verizon.net> Sierra Negre volcano, Isabela Island, Galapagos (Ecuador) is erupting, and there are great pictures on the following website: Aloha, Kitty http://www.volcanodiscovery.com/volcano-tours/volcanoes/pacific/galapagos.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tecrump at tgeresources.com Mon Oct 24 13:19:01 2005 From: tecrump at tgeresources.com (Tim Crump) Date: Mon Oct 24 13:13:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting in the Austin Tx. area? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c5d8d8$2f281a20$2200000a@TGE05> Its been about 15 years since I've been there, but I'd suggest going about 10 miles north of Llano, Texas on State Highway 16. There used to be a picnic stop there by a road cut where you could pick up various sized pieces of llanite. This is a unique igneous intrusive with pink feldspar and blue quartz crystals. It about an 1.5 hour drive, but you go thru the Texas Hill Country which is quite pretty and you'll pass many other interesting road-cuts that often have various marine fossils. Timothy E. Crump, P.G., C.P.G. Project Manager TGE Resources, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of David Lehker Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:27 AM To: Anthony.Schlinsog@GEHA.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting in the Austin Tx. area? Hello all, I just learned that I will be in Austin TX. with a couple of extra days on my hands and a small rental truck. I've looked through the web and found a couple of ideas, but have found there is nothing like someone who's knows the area well. I love collecting agate, wood, and anything that looks cool without a microscope. Any suggestions are welcomed and appreciated. Also, thanks to all who contribute to the discussions. I learn a ton from you-all (see, I'm practicing my Texan drawl already). Dave David Lehker, MSW, CSW Grand Valley State University School of Social Work DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 616-331-6597 Fax - 616-331-6570 lehkerd@gvsu.edu _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Oct 24 13:56:29 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Oct 24 13:56:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: California forest mystery hot spot Message-ID: <102420052056.18688.435D4A7D0005279900004900215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear Rockhounds, You may remember from some months ago, a discussion on the List about this mysteriously caused fire and area of very hot subsurface ground (550 C) in the Los Padres National Forest, CA. I just read, on "About Geology" (website url, below), a followup about studies of this. They confirm that it was not a new volcano or a heat ray from Planet Mongo, but was caused by "exothermic oxidation of iron sulfide minerals (pyrite and marcasite), which then burns disseminated organic material found in the local shale" ... apparently activated by a local landslide, which must have given the subsurface oxidizing minerals access to air, etc., which accelerated the spontaneous combustion. Thought some of you might like to read the story. Pete Modreski http://geology.about.com/b/a/211681.htm?nl=1 http://geology.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2005AM/finalprogram/abstract%5F97293.htm (The first url gives a brief summary and links you to the second--which is all one url, both lines combined--which is the text of an abstract from last week's Geological Society of America meeting, about the "hot spot".) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Oct 24 15:51:54 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Oct 24 15:51:48 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mounting media for small specimens? Message-ID: <435D658A.1050108@verizon.net> Hi, This is a challenge that draws upon the wide range of skills and experience of list members. I am working on a project that requires very small mineral specimens to be mounted against a glass slide while the glass slide is held at an angle. I was advised that epoxy is the medium of choice, but expoxies can be annoying, especially two-part expoxies, and they either dry too slowly, or the quick-drying ones get tacky too quickly. I was thinking of using Norlund optical adhesive; I've never used it before, but I'd imagine it stays pliable until cured by UV, and cures quickly. However, does anyone know if it is thick, or thin? The slide may be held at any angle from 0-45 degrees and I wouldn't want it running down the slide while I am aligning the specimen. That is one reason I ruled out Butvar-76 (polyvinyl butyral), in addition to the fact that acetone is the volatile solvent. One more thing: the mountant, when dried, should be clear and able to be polished so that the surface of the specimen may be exposed. So then, I am open to suggestions about a mountant that meets all these qualifications. Thanks, Don From geenet2 at mchsi.com Mon Oct 24 17:34:04 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Mon Oct 24 17:34:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting in the Austin Tx. area? References: <001101c5d8d8$2f281a20$2200000a@TGE05> Message-ID: <00c701c5d8fb$cdae24a0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Speaking of Llanite, I recently saw a piece of polished Llanite and really liked it. Other than a trip to Texas which I can't do anytime in the near future. Does anyone know where I can obtain a piece of it? I'd love to make a cab or two out of it. Jeanette > about 10 miles north of Llano, Texas on State Highway 16. There used to > be a picnic stop there by a road cut where you could pick up various > sized pieces of llanite. This is a unique igneous intrusive with pink > feldspar and blue quartz crystals. It about an 1.5 hour drive, but you > go thru the Texas Hill Country which is quite pretty and you'll pass > many other interesting road-cuts that often have various marine fossils. > > Timothy E. Crump, P.G., C.P.G. > Project Manager > TGE Resources, Inc. From jaybates at rcn.com Mon Oct 24 17:56:34 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Mon Oct 24 17:53:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: California forest mystery hot spot References: <102420052056.18688.435D4A7D0005279900004900215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <000901c5d8fe$f2bb9680$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Thanks for the update. I have been trying to find out what they found for some time. There is also considerable other information at that site including a tour of the Hayward Fault. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 1:56 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: California forest mystery hot spot > Dear Rockhounds, > > You may remember from some months ago, a discussion on the List about this mysteriously caused fire and area of very hot subsurface ground (550 C) in the Los Padres National Forest, CA. I just read, on "About Geology" (website url, below), a followup about studies of this. They confirm that it was not a new volcano or a heat ray from Planet Mongo, but was caused by > > "exothermic oxidation of iron sulfide minerals (pyrite and marcasite), which then burns disseminated organic material found in the local shale" > > ... apparently activated by a local landslide, which must have given the subsurface oxidizing minerals access to air, etc., which accelerated the spontaneous combustion. Thought some of you might like to read the story. > > Pete Modreski > > http://geology.about.com/b/a/211681.htm?nl=1 > > http://geology.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://gsa.confex.com/g sa/2005AM/finalprogram/abstract%5F97293.htm > > (The first url gives a brief summary and links you to the second--which is all one url, both lines combined--which is the text of an abstract from last week's Geological Society of America meeting, about the "hot spot".) > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 24 18:55:49 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 24 18:49:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mounting media for small specimens? References: <435D658A.1050108@verizon.net> Message-ID: <435D8F12.4B9E@Tomaszewski.net> Don, Have you considered a thermosetting plastic? You might be able to pre-heat it to make it as stiff as necessary, mount the specimen, and finish heating to make it hard. Or old fashioned Canada Balsam? Why does the glass slide have to be held at an angle while it is made? Perhaps you could make a wax 'dam' on the slide, mount the specimen with a liquid adhesive behind the dam, let it cure, and melt off the wax with hot water. Kreigh DonH wrote: > > Hi, > > This is a challenge that draws upon the wide range of skills and > experience of list members. > > I am working on a project that requires very small mineral specimens to > be mounted against a glass slide while the glass slide is held at an > angle. I was advised that epoxy is the medium of choice, but expoxies > can be annoying, especially two-part expoxies, and they either dry too > slowly, or the quick-drying ones get tacky too quickly. > > I was thinking of using Norlund optical adhesive; I've > never used it before, but I'd imagine it stays pliable > until cured by UV, and cures quickly. However, does > anyone know if it is thick, or thin? The slide may be > held at any angle from 0-45 degrees and I wouldn't > want it running down the slide while I am aligning the > specimen. That is one reason I ruled out Butvar-76 > (polyvinyl butyral), in addition to the fact that > acetone is the volatile solvent. > > One more thing: the mountant, when dried, should be > clear and able to be polished so that the surface of > the specimen may be exposed. > > So then, I am open to suggestions about a mountant > that meets all these qualifications. > > Thanks, > Don From pbhewitt at comcast.net Mon Oct 24 19:00:20 2005 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Mon Oct 24 19:00:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of Science Books References: <200510210238.j9L2cAfs013454@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <8C7A45AE3C4C140-162C-21253@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <078401c5d907$db1d0dc0$6401a8c0@maingear> I have been trying the suggestions that I got about finding science books. This leads to another question though. Is the formation of a mineral geology or mineralogy? Which type of book should I be looking for? It just seems to me that it would be geology until someone picks it up and calls it a mineral. How far off am I? Paul in Marietta From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Mon Oct 24 19:10:21 2005 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Mon Oct 24 19:10:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens is rumbling again (code Orange) In-Reply-To: <435B122D.9020800@verizon.net> Message-ID: You can see at night if the moon is bright, especially if there are new cracks in the dome, you can see the orange glow! From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Oct 24 17:22:28 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Oct 24 19:24:39 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of Science Books References: <200510210238.j9L2cAfs013454@bubbleator.drizzle.com><8C7A45AE3C4C140-162C-21253@MBLK-M32.sysops.aol.com> <078401c5d907$db1d0dc0$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <006f01c5d8fa$370ab780$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Paul, Another good site to check might be http://www.powells.com The brick and mortar store in Portland, OR covers several city blocks and their on-line search service is world wide. John From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Oct 24 19:47:33 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Oct 24 19:47:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: California forest mystery hot spot In-Reply-To: <102420052056.18688.435D4A7D0005279900004900215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Cool! Or rather, HOT! Now this, and lots of other learning experiences, is what I enjoy on this list. Thanks Pete! Glenn From: pjmodreski@att.net Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: California forest mystery hot spot Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:56:29 +0000 Dear Rockhounds, You may remember from some months ago, a discussion on the List about this mysteriously caused fire and area of very hot subsurface ground (550 C) in the Los Padres National Forest, CA. I just read, on "About Geology" (website url, below), a followup about studies of this. They confirm that it was not a new volcano or a heat ray from Planet Mongo, but was caused by "exothermic oxidation of iron sulfide minerals (pyrite and marcasite), which then burns disseminated organic material found in the local shale" ... apparently activated by a local landslide, which must have given the subsurface oxidizing minerals access to air, etc., which accelerated the spontaneous combustion. Thought some of you might like to read the story. Pete Modreski http://geology.about.com/b/a/211681.htm?nl=1 http://geology.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2005AM/finalprogram/abstract%5F97293.htm (The first url gives a brief summary and links you to the second--which is all one url, both lines combined--which is the text of an abstract from last week's Geological Society of America meeting, about the "hot spot".) ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ With MSN Spaces email straight to your blog. Upload jokes, photos and more. It's free! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From folmstead at rcn.com Mon Oct 24 20:11:06 2005 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Mon Oct 24 20:11:14 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] California forest mystery hot spot In-Reply-To: <102420052056.18688.435D4A7D0005279900004900215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <102420052056.18688.435D4A7D0005279900004900215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <435DA24A.3030800@rcn.com> Hello check out internet sites for Skytop, Pennsylvania As a recent club meeting we were just 'studying' interesting pyrite samples from this site. GeorgiaO __..--..__..--..__..--..__ pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >Dear Rockhounds, > >You may remember from some months ago, a discussion on the List about this mysteriously caused fire and area of very hot subsurface ground (550 C) in the Los Padres National Forest, CA. I just read, on "About Geology" (website url, below), a followup about studies of this. They confirm that it was not a new volcano or a heat ray from Planet Mongo, but was caused by > >"exothermic oxidation of iron sulfide minerals (pyrite and marcasite), which then burns disseminated organic material found in the local shale" > >... apparently activated by a local landslide, which must have given the subsurface oxidizing minerals access to air, etc., which accelerated the spontaneous combustion. Thought some of you might like to read the story. > >Pete Modreski > >http://geology.about.com/b/a/211681.htm?nl=1 > >http://geology.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2005AM/finalprogram/abstract%5F97293.htm > >(The first url gives a brief summary and links you to the second--which is all one url, both lines combined--which is the text of an abstract from last week's Geological Society of America meeting, about the "hot spot".) > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Oct 24 20:12:20 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Oct 24 20:12:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:Galapagos eruption In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20051024081150.02241008@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: Mahalo Kitty! Just when I needed a volcano fix! HVO is lax lately. ALOHA! Glenn From: Kitty & Bill Heacox <kahako@verizon.net> Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:Galapagos eruption Sierra Negre volcano, Isabela Island, Galapagos (Ecuador) is erupting, and there are great pictures on the following website: Aloha, Kitty http://www.volcanodiscovery.com/volcano-tours/volcanoes/pacific/galapagos.html ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find e-mail, documents and more on your PC instantly with Windows Desktop Search–FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 24 20:28:36 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 24 20:21:46 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens is rumbling again (code Orange) References: Message-ID: <435DA4C6.207@Tomaszewski.net> Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > Ummmmmm... by the way... the JRO webcam has nothing but static on > it... should I be concerned? > > Don > > Just wait til daylight! > > Glenn Sometimes you can still see the glowing eruption point as a white/orange spot even when it is dark. Kreigh From leeper at molalla.net Mon Oct 24 20:35:18 2005 From: leeper at molalla.net (leeper) Date: Mon Oct 24 20:31:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Molalla area material Message-ID: <001f01c5d915$1ec69ac0$0b01a8c0@default> Sorry, I put the same link in twice. Here is one of the eggs I found that I cleaned with HCl, with what appears to be copper under the crystals: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/molcoppr.jpg The base blue material does scratch glass, but not like it is alot harder. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From everbeek at nac.net Tue Oct 25 05:44:45 2005 From: everbeek at nac.net (earl verbeek) Date: Tue Oct 25 05:44:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mounting media for small specimens? In-Reply-To: <435D658A.1050108@verizon.net> Message-ID: <003501c5d961$e18c71a0$c9e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Lakeside cement. I hope I am remembering this correctly. It's sold in stick form, a solid, and it melts under low heat. With a little practice and a hot plate with a rheostat you can get it to any consistency you wish, and it cools to a good optical medium suitable for thin section work or grain mounts. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 6:52 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] mounting media for small specimens? Hi, This is a challenge that draws upon the wide range of skills and experience of list members. I am working on a project that requires very small mineral specimens to be mounted against a glass slide while the glass slide is held at an angle. I was advised that epoxy is the medium of choice, but expoxies can be annoying, especially two-part expoxies, and they either dry too slowly, or the quick-drying ones get tacky too quickly. I was thinking of using Norlund optical adhesive; I've never used it before, but I'd imagine it stays pliable until cured by UV, and cures quickly. However, does anyone know if it is thick, or thin? The slide may be held at any angle from 0-45 degrees and I wouldn't want it running down the slide while I am aligning the specimen. That is one reason I ruled out Butvar-76 (polyvinyl butyral), in addition to the fact that acetone is the volatile solvent. One more thing: the mountant, when dried, should be clear and able to be polished so that the surface of the specimen may be exposed. So then, I am open to suggestions about a mountant that meets all these qualifications. Thanks, Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Tue Oct 25 06:14:58 2005 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Tue Oct 25 06:11:36 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mounting media for small specimens? In-Reply-To: <003501c5d961$e18c71a0$c9e4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <57547ADC-4559-11DA-9AD2-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Lakeside cement is correct. I have a coupla sticks of it should it prove difficult to find it commercially. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada > From liz.fodi at utoronto.ca Tue Oct 25 06:18:44 2005 From: liz.fodi at utoronto.ca (liz fodi) Date: Tue Oct 25 06:18:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: California forest mystery hot spot In-Reply-To: <102420052056.18688.435D4A7D0005279900004900215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <102420052056.18688.435D4A7D0005279900004900215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <435E30B4.2000903@utoronto.ca> Thanks Pete. And curiously apropro. Last evening John and I were discussing the sulphides burning underground that plagued a mine in Bathurst, New Brunswick, Canada. We speculated about the residual chemical compositions and which minerals might be formed. Is anyone aware of any studies of this phenomenon. Liz Fodi pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >Dear Rockhounds, > >You may remember from some months ago, a discussion on the List about this mysteriously caused fire and area of very hot subsurface ground (550 C) in the Los Padres National Forest, CA. I just read, on "About Geology" (website url, below), a followup about studies of this. They confirm that it was not a new volcano or a heat ray from Planet Mongo, but was caused by > >"exothermic oxidation of iron sulfide minerals (pyrite and marcasite), which then burns disseminated organic material found in the local shale" > >... apparently activated by a local landslide, which must have given the subsurface oxidizing minerals access to air, etc., which accelerated the spontaneous combustion. Thought some of you might like to read the story. > >Pete Modreski > >http://geology.about.com/b/a/211681.htm?nl=1 > >http://geology.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2005AM/finalprogram/abstract%5F97293.htm > >(The first url gives a brief summary and links you to the second--which is all one url, both lines combined--which is the text of an abstract from last week's Geological Society of America meeting, about the "hot spot".) > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Oct 25 08:27:29 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Oct 25 08:27:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] llanite (collecting near Austin TX) Message-ID: <102520051527.3930.435E4EE1000850B000000F5A216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I've been to that roadside locality once, about 7 years ago. I just had a "regular" rock pick with me, and it was really a challenge to get any samples; "scads" of geology field trips must have visited the site over the years, and it was totally picked clean of every piece of rock, bigger than a marble but smaller than a refrigerator, and it was really difficult to hammer off any kind of decent-size piece. Last Spring, while in Dallas for a meeting, I was pleased (not too surprised) to find a really neat, large polished boulder of llanite, sitting in the city as a "landscaping rock" outside one of the office buildings. (No, I did NOT chisel off a piece--didn't have my pick with me, anyway.) Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from "Jeanette Wimpee" : -------------- > Speaking of Llanite, I recently saw a piece of polished Llanite and really > liked it. Other than a trip to Texas which I can't do anytime in the near > future. Does anyone know where I can obtain a piece of it? I'd love to make > a cab or two out of it. > Jeanette > > > > about 10 miles north of Llano, Texas on State Highway 16. There used to > > be a picnic stop there by a road cut where you could pick up various > > sized pieces of llanite. This is a unique igneous intrusive with pink > > feldspar and blue quartz crystals. It about an 1.5 hour drive, but you > > go thru the Texas Hill Country which is quite pretty and you'll pass > > many other interesting road-cuts that often have various marine fossils. > > > > Timothy E. Crump, P.G., C.P.G. > > Project Manager > > TGE Resources, Inc. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Oct 25 08:35:16 2005 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Oct 25 08:35:20 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] California forest mystery hot spot Message-ID: <102520051535.11800.435E50B40004385100002E18216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> A recent issue (not sure how recent--saw it at my dentist's office) of, I think, Scientific American, had a very good article about burning coal seams, in Pennsylvania and in China. It had a lot about the town of Centralia, PA, which has been almost totally abandoned due to progress of an underground fire, that was started in the 1960's by burning trash at the city dump, next to an old coal mine tunnel. Talked about how one couple was at first pleased at how the warm vapors allowed their tomoatoes to keep growing all winter, less so when fiery cracks began opening underneath their house [actually, I'm exagerating here, I don't think the article really said quite that in those words--though it did about the tomatoes--you can't believe everything you read on the internet, you know!] Pete [P.S., Glenn, thanks for the appreciative comment] Pete -------------- Original message from Frederick Olmstead : -------------- > Hello > check out internet sites for > Skytop, Pennsylvania > > As a recent club meeting we were just 'studying' interesting pyrite > samples from this site. > > GeorgiaO > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From everbeek at nac.net Tue Oct 25 09:57:53 2005 From: everbeek at nac.net (earl verbeek) Date: Tue Oct 25 09:57:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: California forest mystery hot spot In-Reply-To: <435E30B4.2000903@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <000001c5d985$41569c00$afe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Liz Fodi wrote: Thanks Pete. And curiously apropro. Last evening John and I were discussing the sulphides burning underground that plagued a mine in Bathurst, New Brunswick, Canada. We speculated about the residual chemical compositions and which minerals might be formed. Is anyone aware of any studies of this phenomenon. -------------------------------- Liz- There's quite a nice little body of literature on the minerals that form during the burning of coal seams and the rapid oxidation of sulfide orebodies. Most of my papers are packed away, so I can't point you to any specific source, but if you go to a college or university library associated with a geology department, you'll find all sorts of interesting stuff. The extensive literature on acid mine drainage is also another good pile of literature to consult. These papers spell out in detail the chemical reactions that occur as sulfides are oxidized under near-surface conditions, and what constituents are thereby added to the groundwater flowing through the sulfide-rich rock. Those of us in the East are most used to acid-mine drainage associated with coal mines, but those in the West are probably more used to thinking about acid-mine drainage from sulfide-rich dumps associated with metallic orebodies (e.g., gold mines in Nevada). I mention this because the same process, the oxidation of sulfides, is the cause of a lot of coal fires. The reactions are strongly exothermic, so generate a lot of heat. This is a constant headache in some of the thick Wyoming coal seams (Wyodak coal, if memory serves), not only in the open-cut mines but also in the hopper cars as the coal is being transported to a power plant. Pete already mentioned Centralia, PA, as one example of a burning coal seam. There are huge coal fires in China, and some historic ones in central Europe have created some interesting minerals. All of this is documented at length in the literature, which can properly be described as vast, but also scattered. And don't forget Jerome (sulfide orebody)! I'll bet you could google that one and get a lot of interesting hits. Cheers- Earl From jabac at hal-pc.org Tue Oct 25 05:31:59 2005 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jbacko) Date: Tue Oct 25 10:33:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Help with Identification In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <435E25BF.5010300@hal-pc.org> hkrocke wrote: > I have received two rocks from New Zeeland, via a friend of a friend. > Apparently there are a lot of them laying around in somebodys field > there. > Both have the same general shape and vary only in size. > One is about 6 by 5 cm, the other 9 by 7 cm. > They have a distinct geometric shape. Sort of cone shaped with the tip > cut off. > Looking from the top they are oval, raised and quite smooth. Much like > a large Cabochon. > Looking from the side, they slope inward at about 45 degrees, faintly > fluted, like a cone coffee filter, but rough. Sounds very much like wind-shaped stone, perhaps sandstone or ancient coral. There is an article on these stones in the current Rock&Gem magazine (DEc 2005). They are called "ventifacts". john From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Oct 25 11:01:09 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Oct 25 11:01:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] free Mt. St. Helens lecture in Spokane Message-ID: <435E72E5.5030107@verizon.net> Hi, I realize this is only useful for a handful of list members, but in the interest of disseminating relevant information, I am passing along this message. ---------- Geology Lecture Series The Ongoing Eruption at Mount St. Helens: Precursors, Processes, Hazard Concerns, and Outcomes Willie Scott United States Geological Survey Cascade Volcano Observatory 7:00 pm, Wednesday, November 9th Spokane Community College Lair Student Auditorium Since late August of 2004, Mt. St. Helens has been active in a variety of eruptive sequences. Although not as dramatic as the May 18th, 1980 eruption, the activity at St. Helens sheds exciting insight into how a Cascade volcano grows and evolves through time. Geologists with the U.S.G.S. have been closely monitoring and studying this latest stage of ?growth? at Mt. St. Helens and have interesting new interpretations as to the present and future activity of Washington?s most famous mountain. Join volcanologist Willie Scott, for an interesting and illuminating slide show presentation on the ongoing eruption and evolution of Mt. St. Helens. This lecture is free and open to the public. From liz.fodi at utoronto.ca Tue Oct 25 11:28:32 2005 From: liz.fodi at utoronto.ca (liz fodi) Date: Tue Oct 25 11:27:55 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: California forest mystery hot spot In-Reply-To: <000001c5d985$41569c00$afe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> References: <000001c5d985$41569c00$afe4a5ce@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <435E7950.70100@utoronto.ca> Hi Earl Came up with quite a number of papers on rapid sulphide oxidation in tailings and mines when I checked this morning before mailing to the group. But would the changes in a closed environment where the burning material was deliberately sealed off to burn itself out play out the same way? Gases produced were vented. There was still some evidence from the stack of continued activity on our first visit.. I will have to do some checking to see what role ground water continued to play in the reaction once the fire was sealed off. Humidity was certainly a factor in initiating the combustion. When we visited there was no question of reopening the contained area once the fire was out because of the risk of restarting the reaction. Put simply I guess one could say the fire was smothered over a period of time, with vapour phases exhausted through the stack. If the permeabilty to ground water was also severely reduced I wondered if the result, once the reaction played itself out, would be a clearly zoned area or a more amorphous body of chemical compounds. Just idle musing. At the moment I am working through "Oxide Zone Geochemistry" by Peter A Williams. Triggered the discussion Liz From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 25 11:32:44 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Oct 25 11:32:47 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of Science Books In-Reply-To: <078401c5d907$db1d0dc0$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <20051025183244.58179.qmail@web34310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As I understand it, mineralogy is generally considered to be a branch of geology. That doesn't really answer your question, though. Most mineralogy textbooks that I have or have seen don't go into formation of minerals, but do mention associated minerals and the environments in which they can be found. Some articles in Mineralogical Record, etc. on specific localities are good on paragenesis of minerals, and the chemistry could be worked out from there. Jim Daly --- Paul wrote: > I have been trying the suggestions that I got about > finding science books. > This leads to another question though. Is the > formation of a mineral > geology or mineralogy? Which type of book should I > be looking for? It just > seems to me that it would be geology until someone > picks it up and calls it > a mineral. How far off am I? > > Paul in Marietta > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 25 11:44:06 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Oct 25 11:44:10 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where to Collect in the Phoenix Area In-Reply-To: <906953B87A7503449984D1190DEF90D705B441@gehamail02.GEHA.COM> Message-ID: <20051025184407.91649.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here's another thought if you have time: Take US 60 east to Superior. Go south on Rt. 177. When you get near Kearny, you'll see a sign on the left for the Ray Mine. No collecting, but there's a scenic overlook of a HUGE open pit mine. Further down the road, at Hayden Junction, there are 2 gravel roads on the left. The second one leads (uphill) to the Finch Mine. You probably don't want to try it in a passenger car, though, and it's a 3.5 mile hike. Very interesting quartz and hemimorphite epimorphs over vanadinite & wulfenite. When I went there a few years ago, I drove (4WD van). Not sure I'd have been willing to walk. See my website www.sauktown.com for more. Just follow the field trip links. Jim Daly --- "Schlinsog, Anthony" wrote: > Good morning! I really don't have much in my > personal collection, but I > give a lot of what I collect away to schools and > young people and they > tend not to be too particular... :) I'll try giving > Bill Gardner a ring > and see what he has to say. Thanks for any advice! > > Anthony __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From rockcurrier at cs.com Tue Oct 25 12:19:18 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Tue Oct 25 12:11:59 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mounting mineral specimens at 45 degrees References: <200510250103.j9P13uav024940@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003b01c5d998$ff696200$36e3a5d8@rock5> Don, I don't have any brilliant ideas about how to mount very small specimens at 45 degrees on glass slides. I must admit that I am quite curious about why you would want to do so. How small is very small? Do you perhaps mean rock fragments rather than mineral specimens or perhaps small fragments of pure minerals? When you say from 0 to 45 degrees is 0 a horizontal or a vertical position? Are you familiar with the techniques used to make thin sections of rocks and or probe mounts? Rock From rockcurrier at cs.com Tue Oct 25 12:23:55 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Tue Oct 25 12:15:53 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] mounting media for small specimens References: <200510250103.j9P13uav024940@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004201c5d999$a47f5880$36e3a5d8@rock5> Don, I don't have any brilliant ideas about how to mount very small specimens at 45 degrees on glass slides. I must admit that I am quite curious about why you would want to do so. How small is very small? Do you perhaps mean rock fragments rather than mineral specimens or perhaps small fragments of pure minerals? When you say from 0 to 45 degrees is 0 a horizontal or a vertical position? Are you familiar with the techniques used to make thin sections of rocks and or probe mounts? Rock From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Tue Oct 25 12:46:30 2005 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Tue Oct 25 12:52:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mounting mineral specimens at 45 degrees References: <200510250103.j9P13uav024940@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <003b01c5d998$ff696200$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <000401c5d99d$9496c990$c44127c4@privatehome> If talking of 45 degrees, it does not matter whether you refer to horizontal or vertical, they are both the SAME Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:19 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mounting mineral specimens at 45 degrees > Don, > > I don't have any brilliant ideas about how to mount very small specimens > at > 45 degrees on glass slides. I must admit that I am quite curious about why > you would want to do so. How small is very small? Do you perhaps mean rock > fragments rather than mineral specimens or perhaps small fragments of pure > minerals? When you say from 0 to 45 degrees is 0 a horizontal or a > vertical > position? Are you familiar with the techniques used to make thin sections > of > rocks and or probe mounts? > > Rock > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From rockcurrier at cs.com Tue Oct 25 13:05:26 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Tue Oct 25 12:57:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How is untreated Bisbee Turquoise rough References: <200510250103.j9P13uav024940@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004601c5d99f$71a8c300$36e3a5d8@rock5> I have always been curious about turquoise. It is really a rather loose term that is used to describe a number of minerals or mixtures of minerals. And, there are many treatments used to make turquoise look better than it does in its natural state. Gene Foord did some work on turquoise and found that a lot of it was not turquoise, if you define turquoise as the triclinic copper aluminum phosphate mineral that forms a series with chalcosiderite. The type locality is usually considered to be the Al-Mirsah-Khu Mountains in Iran where it has been produced for hundreds of years. Does any one know of an analysis of the material from Iran? Bideaux only gives an analysis of the material from Lynch Station Virginia. Dana 7th gives a number of other analysis but none on material from Iran. Does anyone have quick access to Foord and Taggarts 1998 article in the Min Mag? Is there an analysis of the Iranian material in there? I talked to Gene Foord about this and he said he thought the material from Iran was not turquoise strictly speaking. I thought that, very interesting since that has for hundreds of years been considered the type locality for turquoise. I think Gene Foord used the material from Virginia as a standard to measure turquoise from other localities against because of its purity and the tiny but well formed crystals. Does anyone know where I can buy a set of Min Mag or the Canadian Mineralogist? Does anyone know if Bisbee still produces turquoise? The mines there have been closed for a long time. I have heard stories of small amounts of turquoise being taken from the dumps etc by individuals that often collect at night. How does one distinguish turquoise from Bisbee distinctly from that of other localities. How can one determine that it is untreated? Many questions. Does anyone have any answers? From albalmer at att.net Tue Oct 25 15:55:59 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Oct 25 15:56:05 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Where to Collect in the Phoenix Area In-Reply-To: <20051025184407.91649.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051025184407.91649.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <435EB7FF.5040805@att.net> Jim Daly wrote: > Here's another thought if you have time: > Take US 60 east to Superior. Go south on Rt. 177. When > you get near Kearny, you'll see a sign on the left for > the Ray Mine. No collecting, but there's a scenic > overlook of a HUGE open pit mine. If that's the place I'm thinking of, you can do collecting of a sort at the overlook. You'll find a few pebbles/small rocks partially or completely covered with purty blue/green deposits. I'm not sure how to classify it - I get confused about the various copper minerals. There are areas beside the mines in Globe which are littered with copper mineral coated rocks. > Further down the > road, at Hayden Junction, there are 2 gravel roads on > the left. The second one leads (uphill) to the Finch > Mine. You probably don't want to try it in a passenger > car, though, and it's a 3.5 mile hike. Very > interesting quartz and hemimorphite epimorphs over > vanadinite & wulfenite. When I went there a few years > ago, I drove (4WD van). Not sure I'd have been willing > to walk. See my website www.sauktown.com for more. > Just follow the field trip links. > Jim Daly > > --- "Schlinsog, Anthony" > wrote: > >> Good morning! I really don't have much in my >> personal collection, but I >> give a lot of what I collect away to schools and >> young people and they >> tend not to be too particular... :) I'll try giving >> Bill Gardner a ring >> and see what he has to say. Thanks for any advice! >> From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Oct 25 13:58:17 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Oct 25 16:00:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How is untreated Bisbee Turquoise rough References: <200510250103.j9P13uav024940@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <004601c5d99f$71a8c300$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <003601c5d9a6$d7b52a60$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Rock, What is "Min Mag" ? If you mean Mineralogical Record there is an entire set being offered on RockhoundsList@yahoo. Price, "Negotiable". I can send you his email address if your interested. John >From: "Rock Currier" >Does anyone know where I can buy a set of Min Mag From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Oct 25 18:12:53 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Oct 25 18:12:50 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] How is untreated Bisbee Turquoise rough References: <200510250103.j9P13uav024940@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <004601c5d99f$71a8c300$36e3a5d8@rock5> Message-ID: <435ED80E.5FF@Tomaszewski.net> Rock Currier wrote: > untreated? Many questions. Does anyone have any answers? I have found several references that indicate the biggest difference between turquoise from Iran and the US is trace impurities from the host rock. In Iran the impurities tend to be copper based, and in the US they are iron based. Iranian (or Persian) turquoise tends towards blue and US turquoise tends towards green. The hydrothermal replacement process which forms turquoise as a secondary mineral tends to make a porus stone and cryptocrystals. Hardness varies between 5.5 and 6.5, with the softer end tending to be more porus. The harder stuff takes a better polish. Eliminating the pores and making turquoise harder is what the treating is all about. Waxes, oils, and plastics are all common forms of treatment. Unless your turquoise is on the softer end and slightly chalky, you can reasonably assume it more likely than not that it has had some treatment. BTW, imitation turquoise has been around for centuries. Ancient Egyptians used a glazed quartz paste. There are a number of minerals that can be treated or confused with turquoise, and many imitations can be made. I think the only ways to be sure it hasn't been treated are to dig it yourself or send it to a lab. Kreigh From Paintricks at aol.com Tue Oct 25 22:44:54 2005 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 25 22:45:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Arkansas river trip and Colorado Report and ? Message-ID: <1c7.34089a62.309071d6@aol.com> Hey guys, Recently went to the mountains of Colorado and had a great time. I went to the Arkansas River near the Beuna Vista area and finally found my first gold. A day of panning produced a little gold for me. About 200 grains. The gold was fine but I had some in almost every pan. I panned mainly in one spot just North of the Beuna Vuista area toward Leadville. Fishin' was terrible. Saw many sick and dead trout tho. The beaver made it difficult to fish because of the stirring around. I also went to Turet just Southwest of the area that has calcite in a big hole that is picked at quite a bit. The area is dug in and the hole changes shape every time I go there. The calcite is lined in veins in pockets but is usually hard to get to without climbing and risking breaking something. The rock is very brittle and has the tendancy to cave in on you if not careful of what's going on above you. The calcite is white to pale yellow and very chalky in texture but great for displays if you can get at it. It has a rough round bumpylike opaque crystal structure with small whate druzylike crystals that resemble tiny quarts on the bottomside at the wall surface. My first visit there in 98 had the best finds. The best specimen was the size of a mexican entree dinner plate about the same shape. The area is known for gold but the geology in this perticular place changes a bit in apearance from the sourounding area. It has a yellow tint to it and seems to be the only place in the area that has this form of rock. It is a very dusty and brittle. Does anyone know of these areas that could tell me more about what I have found? Also I hear that there are geodes near the river at Nathrop just South of Beuna Vista. I wasn't able to find any of these but I ran out of light so I will be back for another look. Anyone pan in this area? What are better areas to pan here? Anyone have reports of this aree on gold panning? I was at Antero for tha Aquamarine and only found Aquamarine in it's host rock not in crystaline form. Just small remnants. My time there was limited there too because of the time it takes getting to the location. On the way home I passed by the Palo Duro Canyon in the North Texas panhandle and came across Gypsum lining the road cuts. This is pretty stuff with a fine crystal structure. It is very brittle and had been picked over prettty well. I still managed to get pieces and was satisfied with them. It is white and chalky kind of like the calcite I found in Turet, Colorado. Any info on the locations and other areas to prospect would be helpful. I'll be moving to the central Colorado area this next month. Thanks, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From willows30 at alltel.net Wed Oct 26 13:52:25 2005 From: willows30 at alltel.net (James A Rollins) Date: Wed Oct 26 13:52:30 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts Message-ID: <003301c5da6f$2c004f50$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> This may not be exactly in line with minerals but does anyone know what kind of oil is used in the picture tubes of large screen TV's? Can it be used for oil immersion on a microscope? James A Rollins --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Wed Oct 26 14:26:47 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Oct 26 14:26:52 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts In-Reply-To: <003301c5da6f$2c004f50$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> References: <003301c5da6f$2c004f50$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> Message-ID: <435FF497.5030702@att.net> James A Rollins wrote: > This may not be exactly in line with minerals but does anyone know what kind of oil is used in the picture tubes of large screen TV's? Can it be used for oil immersion on a microscope? > James A Rollins > AFAIK, picture tubes have nothing in them except metal and vacuum. Do you mean LCD or one of the other modern flat screens? From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Oct 26 16:50:56 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Oct 26 16:35:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Min Mag & 45 degrees References: <200510260103.j9Q13jHo029962@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <006c01c5da88$1c309300$6901a8c0@rock3> Min Mag stands for the Mineralogical Magazine which is the main professional mineralogical journal of Great Briton and has been around a lot longer than the Mineralogical Record`. In the attributions for scientific mineralogical articles it is usually abbreviated Min.Mag. It contains a huge amount of mineralogical data not present in the American Mineralogist, Canadian Mineralogist etc. etc. Indeed 45 degrees is 45 degrees, but it was specified that the slide could be at positions from 0 to 45 degrees. If 0 degrees was horizontal then that would mean flat and mounting it would not be a problem, but if 0 degrees meant 90 degrees that would be vertical and you problems in mounting the "specimen" on a verticle glass slice would be substantially more difficult. But you are right, in both instances 45 degrees would produce an identical slope. But hopefully we will hear from Don on these matters. Rock From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Oct 26 17:35:13 2005 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Oct 26 17:35:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] llanite (collecting near Austin TX) References: <102520051527.3930.435E4EE1000850B000000F5A216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <01cc01c5da8e$4bb2d6f0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> > Last Spring, while in Dallas for a meeting, I was pleased (not too > surprised) to find a really neat, large polished boulder of llanite, > sitting in the city as a "landscaping rock" outside one of the office > buildings. (No, I did NOT chisel off a piece--didn't have my pick with > me, anyway.) > > Pete Modreski But you were tempted weren't you?? Jeanette From calcite65 at earthlink.net Wed Oct 26 18:09:51 2005 From: calcite65 at earthlink.net (Charles Creekmur) Date: Wed Oct 26 18:09:31 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] llanite (collecting near Austin TX) References: <102520051527.3930.435E4EE1000850B000000F5A216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <01cc01c5da8e$4bb2d6f0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <000201c5da93$22298040$6402a8c0@CHAS05951D9DC8> The Badu House at 601 Bessemer in Llano, TX was built in 1891 as a bank and is now operated as a restaurant and bed & breakfast. The top of the bar is the largest slab of polished llanite in the country. Well worth seeing if you are in the area. Charles Creekmur From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Oct 26 18:32:03 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Oct 26 18:31:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Min Mag & 45 degrees In-Reply-To: <006c01c5da88$1c309300$6901a8c0@rock3> References: <200510260103.j9Q13jHo029962@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <006c01c5da88$1c309300$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <43602E13.8090708@verizon.net> Rock Currier wrote: > Indeed 45 degrees is 45 degrees, but it was specified that the slide could > be at positions from 0 to 45 degrees. If 0 degrees was horizontal then that > would mean flat and mounting it would not be a problem, but if 0 degrees > meant 90 degrees that would be vertical and you problems in mounting the > "specimen" on a verticle glass slice would be substantially more difficult. > But you are right, in both instances 45 degrees would produce an identical > slope. > > But hopefully we will hear from Don on these matters. Hi, I'm back. Thanks for the hints from everyone. In general, the project involves orienting a small crystal or crystal fragment of micromount size on a multi-axis goniometer, then mounting it in some crystallographic orientation on a slide, or maybe even a traditional micromount post. Since it would be unwieldy to try to move the goniometer, it is easy to bring the mount up to the specimen. It's not a major issue, it's a matter of the adhesive being an annoying detail. Thanks, Don From diente at prismnet.com Wed Oct 26 18:34:02 2005 From: diente at prismnet.com (diente@prismnet.com) Date: Wed Oct 26 18:34:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] llanite (collecting near Austin TX) In-Reply-To: <102520051527.3930.435E4EE1000850B000000F5A216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <435FE83A.21901.A4DBE44@localhost> Some friends were there in the spring. All three were able chisel out large chunks of the llanite. One weighed over 100 pounds. However there is an easier way. Just a few miles away from the locality, in Llano, TX, at the intersection of State Hwy 29 and 71 is a granite works business with many large slabs of granite from worldwide localities. They allow you to collect from their scrap heap. There is always some llanite in the pile, and you can't beat the price. Austin is well known for its blue capped celestite. Unfortunately, the city of Austin is now arresting any collectors from the historic site that is now on city property. There are lots of construction sites around town where fossils can be found. Paul Bordovsky Austin, TX > I've been to that roadside locality once, about 7 years ago. I just > had a "regular" rock pick with me, and it was really a challenge to > get any samples; "scads" of geology field trips must have visited the > site over the years, and it was totally picked clean of every piece of > rock, bigger than a marble but smaller than a refrigerator, and it was > really difficult to hammer off any kind of decent-size piece. > > Last Spring, while in Dallas for a meeting, I was pleased (not too > surprised) to find a really neat, large polished boulder of llanite, > sitting in the city as a "landscaping rock" outside one of the office > buildings. (No, I did NOT chisel off a piece--didn't have my pick > with me, anyway.) > > Pete Modreski > -------------- Original message from "Jeanette Wimpee" > : -------------- > > > > Speaking of Llanite, I recently saw a piece of polished Llanite and > > really liked it. Other than a trip to Texas which I can't do anytime > > in the near future. Does anyone know where I can obtain a piece of > > it? I'd love to make a cab or two out of it. Jeanette > > > > > > > about 10 miles north of Llano, Texas on State Highway 16. There > > > used to be a picnic stop there by a road cut where you could pick > > > up various sized pieces of llanite. This is a unique igneous > > > intrusive with pink feldspar and blue quartz crystals. It about an > > > 1.5 hour drive, but you go thru the Texas Hill Country which is > > > quite pretty and you'll pass many other interesting road-cuts that > > > often have various marine fossils. > > > > > > Timothy E. Crump, P.G., C.P.G. > > > Project Manager > > > TGE Resources, Inc. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From smtravis at plateautel.net Wed Oct 26 21:55:42 2005 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Wed Oct 26 21:57:43 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Arkansas river trip and Colorado Report and ? References: <1c7.34089a62.309071d6@aol.com> Message-ID: <003f01c5dab2$b0a40420$f91571ce@marilyn> There are several areas near Buena Vista to pan When I set up at the Buena Vista Show a couple of months ago the dealer next to me showed me some gold he had panned the week before the show . Sorry I don't remember the name of the canyon but it is just west of Buena Vista and had a hydraulic mine operating there until the state shut them down All the best Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:44 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Arkansas river trip and Colorado Report and ? > Hey guys, > Recently went to the mountains of Colorado and had a great time. I went > to > the Arkansas River near the Beuna Vista area and finally found my first > gold. > A day of panning produced a little gold for me. About 200 grains. The > gold > was fine but I had some in almost every pan. I panned mainly in one spot > just North of the Beuna Vuista area toward Leadville. Fishin' was > terrible. Saw > many sick and dead trout tho. The beaver made it difficult to fish because > of > the stirring around. > I also went to Turet just Southwest of the area that has calcite in a big > hole that is picked at quite a bit. The area is dug in and the hole > changes > shape every time I go there. The calcite is lined in veins in pockets but > is > usually hard to get to without climbing and risking breaking something. > The rock > is very brittle and has the tendancy to cave in on you if not careful of > what's going on above you. The calcite is white to pale yellow and very > chalky in > texture but great for displays if you can get at it. It has a rough round > bumpylike opaque crystal structure with small whate druzylike crystals > that > resemble tiny quarts on the bottomside at the wall surface. My first > visit there > in 98 had the best finds. The best specimen was the size of a mexican > entree > dinner plate about the same shape. The area is known for gold but the > geology > in this perticular place changes a bit in apearance from the sourounding > area. > It has a yellow tint to it and seems to be the only place in the area that > has this form of rock. It is a very dusty and brittle. Does anyone know > of > these areas that could tell me more about what I have found? > Also I hear that there are geodes near the river at Nathrop just South of > Beuna Vista. I wasn't able to find any of these but I ran out of light so > I > will be back for another look. > Anyone pan in this area? What are better areas to pan here? Anyone have > reports of this aree on gold panning? > I was at Antero for tha Aquamarine and only found Aquamarine in it's host > rock not in crystaline form. Just small remnants. My time there was > limited > there too because of the time it takes getting to the location. > On the way home I passed by the Palo Duro Canyon in the North Texas > panhandle and came across Gypsum lining the road cuts. This is pretty > stuff with a > fine crystal structure. It is very brittle and had been picked over > prettty > well. I still managed to get pieces and was satisfied with them. It is > white > and chalky kind of like the calcite I found in Turet, Colorado. > Any info on the locations and other areas to prospect would be helpful. > I'll be moving to the central Colorado area this next month. > Thanks, > Kevin > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Oct 27 07:50:05 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Oct 27 07:50:13 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Northwest Mineral Shows Message-ID: <4360E91D.7010101@tenforward.com> 10/25/2005 Northwest Mineral Shows By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com Hi Everyone, These last several weeks have been busy ones for me. Among other things, I spent my time preparing for two upcoming mineral shows, both which I attended over the last two weekends. I enjoy a good mineral show and thankfully, with the abundant and varied mineral resources available to collectors here in Washington State, our mineral show calendar is full nearly all year long. My first event was the 31st annual Symposium and Mineral Show of the Pacific Northwest chapter of the Friends of Mineralogy in Kelso, Washington, over the weekend of October 14th - 16th. I've been a long time member of this great group and very much look forward to this, our grand culminating event of the year. The symposium has hosted some of our hobby's most illustrious luminaries, a veritable who's who in the mineral world. This year's theme, Minerals of Mississippi Valley- Type Deposits, featured talks by our keynote speakers Jesse Fisher ( http://www.ukminingventures.com/index.htm ) and John Rakovan (an executive editor of Rocks & Minerals magazine). Local northwest collectors Ray Lasmanis and Aaron Wieting also presented talks. The symposium hosts approximately two dozen satellite dealers offering a wonderful array of hard to find northwest and World treasures and compliment our Main Floor Dealers, Lehigh Minerals ( http://www.lehighminerals.net/ ), Oxcart Minerals, John Kilian ( http://www.kiliancollection.com/ ), and Earth's Treasures. Member display cases offering an abundance of crystalline perfection graced the main floor area and fought the eye, competing with the stocks of the dealers. Live and Silent Auctions, Contests and wonderful, wonderful companionship, it's no mystery why I enjoy attending this premier Washington mineral event as much as I do! I shared a room as a satellite dealer with my friend Dave Waisman and together we offered a stunning array of goodies (o.k., o.k., I'm a bit biased!). Among Dave's stock could be found several dozen self collected specimens from the Black Pine Mine, near Philipsburg, Granite County, Montana (older material from when Dave worked at the mine, see his paper in the Mineralogical Record, V.23, N.6), beautiful delicate appearing Liliani mine, Chihuahua, Mexico sceptered quartz and innumerable other fine goodies. Me, I had a sweet little display of miniature and small cabinet killers featuring among others, ex-specimens from the Martin Zinn collection, British Museum, etc. Russian tourmalines, calcites and fluorites; English quartzs and fluorites; enhydroed, phantomed, japan law twinned and enchantingly included quartz; from anatase to bournonite, from varisite to wulfenite. We had a fun room and we kept our door open late each evening. This event is open to both Friends of Mineralogy members and to the general public and it is my hope that we'll see you there next year! (For more information regarding the Pacific Northwest Friends of Mineralogy, please see their website at... http://www.pnwfm.org/ ) As a side note, while on the way to the Friends of Mineralogy symposium, I stopped at an old friend quarry, Robertson Pit, in Mason County. I'd heard there had been some fresh work at the pit, but upon arrival, I found the quarry much as I'd left it months before on my last visit. The west wall is still attractive with several partially weathered pockets exposed, but as on my last visit, the west wall is a death zone. Wonderful specimens of natrolite, calcite and analcime are among the hoped for species collectors attempt to find here. These species are recovered from gas pockets found within a small percentage of the pillow basalts comprising this locality. On the west wall, peeling away from the top down, a massive section of loosely interlocked pillows was just waiting for the foolish tap of a hammer or the subtlest shift of wind. Personally, either seemed more than enough to cause the collapse of the wall, dropping tons of unyielding rock down on everything and anything below. Collecting crystals is great fun, especially when we live long enough to appreciate the things we find! Be careful and be safe! This last weekend, the 22nd and the 23rd of October, the Bellevue Rock Club had their annual show at Vasa Park on the shores of Lake Sammamish. I'd heard nice things about this little show and decided to attend. I was offered a sweet little fourteen foot space right beside the galley and the food (have I ever mentioned that besides, "I love you Gloria", my four favorite words are, "All You Can Eat!"). For this show, I changed my inventory over to fun stock consisting of specimens priced under a hundred dollars, these are complimented by my geodes and my geode cracking antics. I've mentioned it before, but truly, I have the greatest time cracking geodes. It's just so gosh darn much fun! I really get into it too, making a big production of it with the kids and man, oh man, does my face hurt from all the smiling! This is just the absolute very best! For some (bah, humbug!) the geodes are too simple for their big brains, but for the rest of us, they're rocks with surprises inside and I just think that's the greatest! Insert photos 1-6 Additionally to this fun, I placed a display into the show and was close enough to smile, overhearing some of the neat comments made by show attendees. The case displayed some of our finest specimens recovered during this year's mining operation at my mine, the Rat's Nest, in central Idaho. (Many of you will remember reading the two online papers highlighting this year's mining adventure at... http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Collecting%20Reports/June%202005%20John%20Cornish%20Heulandite%20Dig/June%202005%20John%20Cornish%20Idaho%20Heulandite%20Dig%20Page.htm and at... http://mcrocks.com/ftr/JohnCornishJune05.html ) Behind the scenes, the camaraderie demonstrated by all of the volunteers and workers as they assembled, enjoyed, and then torn down both shows was really a gift and I so very much enjoyed the time I spent with all of these good people. I can't wait to get out and attend another show, heck, my next will be in November, over the weekend of the 19th and the 20th, at the Kitsap County Fairgrounds. The Kitsap Club really hosts an exceptional show and I'll be there displaying, cracking geodes and selling a few crystals. Come on by and say hello, it's never about the money, it's always about the friends! For more information regarding the Bellevue Rock Club see... http://www.geocities.com/bellevue_rock_club/ and for the Kitsap Mineral and Gem Society see... http://www.kmgs.org/ Take care everyone and I'll hope to see you soon. All the very best, John Below are several photos I took at the Bellevue show of the goods offered by some of the attending dealers (unfortunately I did not have my camera at the Friends of Mineralogy symposium). This is followed by a final photo, one of our display. I hope you enjoy! Insert photos #7 - 13 To view the photos included to this report, please click on the following link... http://mcrocks.com/ftr/CornishOctober05.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From asgardsgc at earthlink.net Thu Oct 27 10:07:13 2005 From: asgardsgc at earthlink.net (Mark Easterbrook) Date: Thu Oct 27 10:07:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Arkansas river trip and Colorado Report and ? Message-ID: <12295194.1130432833231.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Could it be Spring Canyon? Great place to kayak. -----Original Message----- From: Steve & Marilyn Sent: Oct 27, 2005 12:55 AM To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Arkansas river trip and Colorado Report and ? There are several areas near Buena Vista to pan When I set up at the Buena Vista Show a couple of months ago the dealer next to me showed me some gold he had panned the week before the show . Sorry I don't remember the name of the canyon but it is just west of Buena Vista and had a hydraulic mine operating there until the state shut them down All the best Steve From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Oct 27 12:45:16 2005 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Oct 27 14:47:42 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Northwest Mineral Shows References: <4360E91D.7010101@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <001201c5db2e$fa384f20$6400a8c0@mshome.net> John, Thanks for the report! Julie and I stopped by Robertson Pit while escaping a family reunion in Shelton, WA a few years back. We found some nice natrolite in pockets on the west wall and hand carried them in a small box back to the car. On the way home, Julie had a brain fart and dropped the box rendering the natrolite crystals into powder. I returned some months later and carefully knocked out some beautiful specimens with crystals up to 15mm. When we moved to Idaho with tons of rock, these samples road on the front seat of the truck. Some of my favorite stuff! John ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > As a side note, while on the way to the Friends of Mineralogy symposium, > I stopped at an old friend quarry, Robertson Pit, in Mason County. From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Oct 27 16:11:05 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Oct 27 15:56:04 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Persian Turquoise References: <200510270100.j9R10iHo003772@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <009f01c5db4b$b5b02fe0$6901a8c0@rock3> Kreigh Did any of the references on turquoise you access give a chemical analysis of the turquoise from Iran? Many references especially popular articles and many of the older gemological articles are frequently descriptive in nature with little hard science in them. Most gemologists don't have any idea of what the difference between turquoise and pharmacosiderite might be and many have never heard of pharmacosiderite although they may be selling it as turquoise in jewelry in their store. Rock From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Oct 27 20:31:35 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Oct 27 20:31:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Persian Turquoise References: <200510270100.j9R10iHo003772@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <009f01c5db4b$b5b02fe0$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <43619B91.73EE@Tomaszewski.net> Rock Currier wrote: > > Kreigh > Did any of the references on turquoise you access give a chemical analysis > of the turquoise from Iran? Many references especially popular articles and > many of the older gemological articles are frequently descriptive in nature > with little hard science in them. Most gemologists don't have any idea of > what the difference between turquoise and pharmacosiderite might be and many > have never heard of pharmacosiderite although they may be selling it as > turquoise in jewelry in their store. > Rock Rock, As you observed, most of the publications I researched were descriptive, presenting conclusions without the science details behind it. Two of the better google queries I made were "chemical analysis of turquois from iran" and "differences between turquois from iran and the united states". I used other queries, but unfortunately I did not keep track of them. And because of a computer crash, I lost the history to the specific sites that discussed the inpurity differences between persian and us turquois. I did find a couple .edu websites that had more detailed results in my origial investigation, but I have not been able to refind them since I crashed. The closest I have found was with a search for 'iron copper turquoise'. Hope this helps. Kreigh From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Fri Oct 28 08:22:54 2005 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Fri Oct 28 08:22:57 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Northwest Mineral Shows In-Reply-To: <001201c5db2e$fa384f20$6400a8c0@mshome.net> References: <4360E91D.7010101@tenforward.com> <001201c5db2e$fa384f20$6400a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <4362424E.8020309@tenforward.com> Hi John, Thanks for the little write up yourself. It's always nice to hear of anothers experiences while collecting! Bummer on the "accident" (and I'm sure it couldn't have been Julie's fault... earthquake, ya that's it, it must have been an earthquake!). I was talking with a friend just the other day and he commented, "how much natrolite does one person need". My answer, "I'll let ya know when I get there!". I really love this little locality. I've found examples of everything known from the quarry and have even added a bit to the story by recovering the only (as far as I know) pocket of apophyllite on natrolite (from here). These are cute little colorless crystals to about a 1/4 inch perched on and impaled by natrolite. The crystals have a cool morphology as they resemble octahedra, lacking prism faces; neat! But, my best specimen (and it's not my largest!) is a stellar, killer, beautiful... spherical spray of natrolite just under an inch and a half across perched up smartly upon a matrix covering of analcimes. This came from a one of a kind pocket where the natrolite became clay included presenting the illusion of a black spiky spray on white... what a pretty thing! We currently have loaned this specimen to the Rice Museum of Rocks and Minerals in Hillsboro, Oregon for display in their newly completed Northwest Building. If any of you would like to see a photo of my little beauty, just drop me an email and I'll send it your way. All the very best everyone, and John, thanks again for writing! All the very best, John For more information on the Rice Northwest Museum of Rocks and Minerals, please see their link at... http://www.ricenwmuseum.org/ John Siebel wrote: >John, > >Thanks for the report! Julie and I stopped by Robertson Pit while escaping a >family reunion in Shelton, WA a few years back. We found some nice natrolite >in pockets on the west wall and hand carried them in a small box back to the >car. On the way home, Julie had a brain fart and dropped the box rendering >the natrolite crystals into powder. I returned some months later and >carefully knocked out some beautiful specimens with crystals up to 15mm. >When we moved to Idaho with tons of rock, these samples road on the front >seat of the truck. Some of my favorite stuff! > >John > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John and Gloria Cornish" > > >>As a side note, while on the way to the Friends of Mineralogy symposium, >>I stopped at an old friend quarry, Robertson Pit, in Mason County. >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 28 09:08:42 2005 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Oct 28 09:08:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <20051028160843.5162.qmail@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This month's new additions list will be posted later today on www.sauktown.com . It's a long one. It includes some uncommon species: falkmanite, hidalgoite, mellite, mendozavilite, metauranocircite, mawsonite, monticellite, orientite & winchite. I've also added quite a few mounted specimens (numbers starting with M-). I came across a box of mounted specimens that I had set aside as "needing work" from a collection I purchased a few years ago. I finally got around to getting them ready for sale. As always, if you don't want to get these updates, please tell me. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Oct 28 10:03:21 2005 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Oct 28 10:03:24 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD ? Mobile Rock and Gem Show Message-ID: The Mobile Rock and Gem Show will be held at the Fairgrounds in Mobile, Alabama on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday Nov 25, 26 & 27. We have a full slate of dealers and exhibits for our 11th annual show. Katrina hurt many in nearby areas, but this show is definitely on. And it may be one of few on the Gulf Coast this fall. Ya'll come!!! Glenn Wimpee ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger. Get it now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Oct 28 11:36:32 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Oct 28 11:34:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Neat website esp. for teachers References: <43347A69.3F7D@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20050923125554.02ffe818@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <000901c5dbee$8581c1a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I sent a message to Bill Kapple asking about Bob's Rock Shop and got this message in return: I checked with Lynn Varon, the editor at R&G, and she says he has done this before, and she thinks the site may be updated soon. Let's hope. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Neat website esp. for teachers > Wow, Kreigh introduced us to a neat website. I'm so ignorant...I'd never > heard of the Mineral Information Institute. There's a LOT of interesting > stuff there, great to refer kids to, and perfect for teachers of earth > sciences or elementary teachers who cover science units. Thanks Kreigh. > > Take a look! > > http://www.mii.org/index.html > > Aloha, Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From albalmer at att.net Fri Oct 28 12:11:11 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Oct 28 12:11:16 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Neat website esp. for teachers In-Reply-To: <000901c5dbee$8581c1a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <43347A69.3F7D@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20050923125554.02ffe818@incoming.verizon.net> <000901c5dbee$8581c1a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <436277CF.9030204@att.net> jaybates wrote: > I sent a message to Bill Kapple asking about Bob's Rock Shop and got this > message in return: > > I checked with Lynn Varon, the editor at R&G, and she says he has done this > before, and she thinks the site may be updated soon. Let's hope. > Bill > Are you referring to the recent outage which was reported (here, I think)? Actually, Bob's site was back up the next day, and is up now. http://www.rockhounds.com/ From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Oct 28 13:54:45 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Oct 28 13:43:15 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] LLANITE Message-ID: <001201c5dc01$d3f6c4d0$c17ba118@feldsparflash> I missed the posting on llanite. From what has been said I gather it is a rock from the Llano, Texas area. What is it? and what makes it a standout? Carolyn --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Fri Oct 28 13:47:22 2005 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Fri Oct 28 13:47:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] LLANITE In-Reply-To: <001201c5dc01$d3f6c4d0$c17ba118@feldsparflash> References: <001201c5dc01$d3f6c4d0$c17ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <43628E5A.2050705@jeanniusdesigns.com> it's a dark red granite with blue quartz crystals growing through it. Jeanne Jewelry pages: www.jeannius.com Family pages: www.rhodes-moen.com Carolyn Reynard wrote: > I missed the posting on llanite. From what has been said I gather it is a rock from the Llano, Texas area. What is it? and what makes it a standout? > Carolyn > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Oct 28 16:09:59 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Oct 28 15:58:33 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] LLANITE References: <001201c5dc01$d3f6c4d0$c17ba118@feldsparflash> <43628E5A.2050705@jeanniusdesigns.com> Message-ID: <001801c5dc14$b8c5baf0$c17ba118@feldsparflash> Thank you Jeanne, llanite sounds quite beautiful and rare. Do you happen to know the age of this granite and name of intrusion or mountain range? Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanne Rhodes Moen" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 4:47 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] LLANITE > it's a dark red granite with blue quartz crystals growing through it. > > Jeanne > > Jewelry pages: www.jeannius.com > > Family pages: www.rhodes-moen.com > > > > Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > I missed the posting on llanite. From what has been said I gather it is a rock from the Llano, Texas area. What is it? and what makes it a standout? > > Carolyn > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jaybates at rcn.com Fri Oct 28 16:21:39 2005 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Fri Oct 28 16:19:06 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bob's Rock Shop References: <43347A69.3F7D@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20050923125554.02ffe818@incoming.verizon.net><000901c5dbee$8581c1a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <436277CF.9030204@att.net> Message-ID: <000901c5dc16$5afabc20$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> The only thing up is some archive files. You can not post anything on Bob's Rock Shop. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Balmer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Neat website esp. for teachers > jaybates wrote: > > I sent a message to Bill Kapple asking about Bob's Rock Shop and got this > > message in return: > > > > I checked with Lynn Varon, the editor at R&G, and she says he has done this > > before, and she thinks the site may be updated soon. Let's hope. > > Bill > > > Are you referring to the recent outage which was reported (here, I > think)? Actually, Bob's site was back up the next day, and is up now. > http://www.rockhounds.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From albalmer at att.net Fri Oct 28 16:57:20 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Oct 28 16:57:23 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bob's Rock Shop In-Reply-To: <000901c5dc16$5afabc20$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <43347A69.3F7D@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20050923125554.02ffe818@incoming.verizon.net><000901c5dbee$8581c1a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <436277CF.9030204@att.net> <000901c5dc16$5afabc20$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <4362BAE0.6010401@att.net> jaybates wrote: > The only thing up is some archive files. You can not post anything on Bob's > Rock Shop. Ah, never tried to post anything. However, I've just done some random browsing, and it looks like that's the only thing that isn't working. There's even a new Bob Keller faceting design up. Have you tried emailing Bob? You can copy his email address from http://www.rockhounds.com/bkeller/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Balmer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:11 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Neat website esp. for teachers > > >> jaybates wrote: >>> I sent a message to Bill Kapple asking about Bob's Rock Shop and got > this >>> message in return: >>> >>> I checked with Lynn Varon, the editor at R&G, and she says he has done > this >>> before, and she thinks the site may be updated soon. Let's hope. >>> Bill >>> >> Are you referring to the recent outage which was reported (here, I >> think)? Actually, Bob's site was back up the next day, and is up now. >> http://www.rockhounds.com/ From calcite65 at earthlink.net Fri Oct 28 17:17:17 2005 From: calcite65 at earthlink.net (Charles Creekmur) Date: Fri Oct 28 17:17:21 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] LLANITE References: <001201c5dc01$d3f6c4d0$c17ba118@feldsparflash><43628E5A.2050705@jeanniusdesigns.com> <001801c5dc14$b8c5baf0$c17ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <000201c5dc1e$1f90f390$6402a8c0@CHAS05951D9DC8> A good picture and explanation of Llanite can be seen at http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rmr/llanite.html \Charles From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Fri Oct 28 17:23:18 2005 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Fri Oct 28 17:23:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] LLANITE In-Reply-To: <000201c5dc1e$1f90f390$6402a8c0@CHAS05951D9DC8> References: <001201c5dc01$d3f6c4d0$c17ba118@feldsparflash><43628E5A.2050705@jeanniusdesigns.com> <001801c5dc14$b8c5baf0$c17ba118@feldsparflash> <000201c5dc1e$1f90f390$6402a8c0@CHAS05951D9DC8> Message-ID: <4362C0F6.8000700@jeanniusdesigns.com> that was a lot lighter than the material I have...mine is very dark red/black so that the blue is harder to see. Jeanne Jewelry pages: www.jeannius.com Family pages: www.rhodes-moen.com Charles Creekmur wrote: > A good picture and explanation of Llanite can be seen at > http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rmr/llanite.html \Charles > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Fri Oct 28 18:04:31 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Oct 28 17:49:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Orienting the crystal on a spindel References: <200510280105.j9S15WXG024387@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <010501c5dc24$b8bf3800$6901a8c0@rock3> Don, It sounds like you may need some sort of version of the transfer jig that the guys that facet high quality faceted gem stones use when they are finished with the crown of the stone and need to put the stone on another dop stick, so that they can reverse the stone and finish the pavilion facets. It is critical to the faceting crowd that the transfer be done exactly so that the pavilion facets line up exactly with the lower break facets. The dop stick that holds the stone in the faceting head has a key that orients it to an exact position. The dop stick that is to accept the faceted crown of the stone also has the same kind of key (a little round post actually that is vertical to the side of the dop stick). The transfer device is a horizontal piece of metal that has a horizontal V shaped grove machined into the surface and a hole or space in the center. The dop stick with the gem stone is laid in the V shaped grove on one side of the transfer rig with the gemstone (your crystal?) in the center and the other dop stick that is to accept the finished crown of the gemstone is laid in the other grove with a blob of hot doping wax fixed to its head. The key posts assure that both dop sticks have the same orientation and the faceter slides the two dop sticks together and holds them in place till the investment media becomes solid. Then both dop sticks with the stone in the center are removed as a unit and the old dop stick removed by heating the wax on the old dop stick or cutting the investment away from the old dop stick. The new dop stick with the reversed stone is then keyed back into the faceting head with the exact orientation it had on the old dop stick. Of course you would have to make some modifications to the device and would probably have to design a smaller version of the transfer jig and all you spindles (dop sticks) would probably have to be outfitted with a key post or other similar device. If this seems like a promising avenue for you to explore I am sure that any local ammeter faceter could show you the nuts and bolts of how these jigs work for faceted stones and you could design one from there. Before you go to all this trouble, you might wish to pose exactly the same question to the MSA chat group. Many of these guys are drop dead professionals and some have been working with spindles and goniometers for many years and might be able to direct you an easily available device or tell you how to do what you want to do better to do it than my suggestion above. Rock From rockcurrier at cs.com Fri Oct 28 18:05:57 2005 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Oct 28 17:50:58 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Orienting the crystal on a spindel References: <200510280105.j9S15WXG024387@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <010601c5dc24$ebb0c0d0$6901a8c0@rock3> Don, It sounds like you may need some sort of version of the transfer jig that the guys that facet high quality faceted gem stones use when they are finished with the crown of the stone and need to put the stone on another dop stick, so that they can reverse the stone and finish the pavilion facets. It is critical to the faceting crowd that the transfer be done exactly so that the pavilion facets line up exactly with the lower break facets. The dop stick that holds the stone in the faceting head has a key that orients it to an exact position. The dop stick that is to accept the faceted crown of the stone also has the same kind of key (a little round post actually that is vertical to the side of the dop stick). The transfer device is a horizontal piece of metal that has a horizontal V shaped grove machined into the surface and a hole or space in the center. The dop stick with the gem stone is laid in the V shaped grove on one side of the transfer rig with the gemstone (your crystal?) in the center and the other dop stick that is to accept the finished crown of the gemstone is laid in the other grove with a blob of hot doping wax fixed to its head. The key posts assure that both dop sticks have the same orientation and the faceter slides the two dop sticks together and holds them in place till the investment media becomes solid. Then both dop sticks with the stone in the center are removed as a unit and the old dop stick removed by heating the wax on the old dop stick or cutting the investment away from the old dop stick. The new dop stick with the reversed stone is then keyed back into the faceting head with the exact orientation it had on the old dop stick. Of course you would have to make some modifications to the device and would probably have to design a smaller version of the transfer jig and all you spindles (dop sticks) would probably have to be outfitted with a key post or other similar device. If this seems like a promising avenue for you to explore I am sure that any local ammeter faceter could show you the nuts and bolts of how these jigs work for faceted stones and you could design one from there. Before you go to all this trouble, you might wish to pose exactly the same question to the MSA chat group. Many of these guys are drop dead professionals and some have been working with spindles and goniometers for many years and might be able to direct you an easily available device or tell you how to do what you want to do better to do it than my suggestion above. Rock From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Oct 28 18:20:46 2005 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Oct 28 18:09:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] LLANITE References: <001201c5dc01$d3f6c4d0$c17ba118@feldsparflash> <43628E5A.2050705@jeanniusdesigns.com> <001801c5dc14$b8c5baf0$c17ba118@feldsparflash> <000201c5dc1e$1f90f390$6402a8c0@CHAS05951D9DC8> Message-ID: <001b01c5dc26$fdcee5b0$c17ba118@feldsparflash> Thanks Charles a very interesting web site that answers every question I had. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Creekmur" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] LLANITE > A good picture and explanation of Llanite can be seen at > http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rmr/llanite.html > \Charles > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From willows30 at alltel.net Fri Oct 28 18:50:12 2005 From: willows30 at alltel.net (James A Rollins) Date: Fri Oct 28 18:50:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts References: <003301c5da6f$2c004f50$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> <435FF497.5030702@att.net> Message-ID: <003c01c5dc2b$1a423c20$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> The TV is (was) an RCA 52" diag. with rear projection) Oh yes they do have oil in them. I took one apart (there are three different tubes: one for red, for blue and one for green). This is a rear view projection screen. The oil looks like mineral oil maybe just a little less viscid. Each lens has about a pint of oil in it. There is another related question: I have an old brass ship's compass. It appears as if the needle is floating in oil. There is however a problem, a large bubble has developed in the center. I would like to replace this oil if I can only find out what it is. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Balmer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] micromounts > James A Rollins wrote: >> This may not be exactly in line with minerals but does anyone know what >> kind of oil is used in the picture tubes of large screen TV's? Can it be >> used for oil immersion on a microscope? >> James A Rollins >> > AFAIK, picture tubes have nothing in them except metal and vacuum. Do you > mean LCD or one of the other modern flat screens? > _______________________________________________ From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Oct 28 19:00:06 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Oct 28 18:59:54 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts In-Reply-To: <003c01c5dc2b$1a423c20$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> References: <003301c5da6f$2c004f50$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> <435FF497.5030702@att.net> <003c01c5dc2b$1a423c20$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> Message-ID: <4362D7A6.7040202@verizon.net> >>> This may not be exactly in line with minerals but does anyone know >>> what kind of oil is used in the picture tubes of large screen TV's? >>> Can it be used for oil immersion on a microscope? >>> James A Rollins I'm not sure what that is, but you're better off spending a few dollars on the proper immersion oil. That way you get the correct refractive index, and need not worry about harmful volatiles and contaminants and with the correct viscosity. Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Oct 28 20:26:56 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Oct 28 20:24:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts References: <003301c5da6f$2c004f50$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> <435FF497.5030702@att.net> <003c01c5dc2b$1a423c20$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> Message-ID: <4362EB53.30B8@Tomaszewski.net> You should be able to contact RCA about the oil lens and get a MSDS on it that at least identifies the type of oil and proper handling/disposal instructions. With the model # you might even be able to find the info on RCA's website. Your old compass will probably require taking a sample to a lab, though you may be able to identify its viscosity so you can replace it with a similar oil. James A Rollins wrote: > > The TV is (was) an RCA 52" diag. with rear projection) > Oh yes they do have oil in them. I took one apart (there are three different > tubes: one for red, for blue and one for green). This is a rear view > projection screen. The oil looks like mineral oil maybe just a little less > viscid. Each lens has about a pint of oil in it. > There is another related question: I have an old brass ship's compass. It > appears as if the needle is floating in oil. There is however a problem, a > large bubble has developed in the center. I would like to replace this oil > if I can only find out what it is. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Balmer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:26 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] micromounts > > > James A Rollins wrote: > >> This may not be exactly in line with minerals but does anyone know what > >> kind of oil is used in the picture tubes of large screen TV's? Can it be > >> used for oil immersion on a microscope? > >> James A Rollins > >> > > AFAIK, picture tubes have nothing in them except metal and vacuum. Do you > > mean LCD or one of the other modern flat screens? > > _______________________________________________ From adaml001 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 29 19:34:26 2005 From: adaml001 at yahoo.com (adam larson) Date: Sat Oct 29 19:34:29 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: New Minerals at Adamsminerals.com! Message-ID: <20051030023426.50993.qmail@web32211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Everyone! Just a note the first four new pages are updated at adamsminerals.com. I will have all eight, possibly more online tomorrow. It's been a busy day --I took about 100 photos of minerals! Take a look at http://www.adamsminerals.com/new.htm Thanks, Adam Larson Adamsminerals.com __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com From albalmer at att.net Sun Oct 30 17:42:24 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sun Oct 30 17:42:34 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] micromounts In-Reply-To: <003c01c5dc2b$1a423c20$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> References: <003301c5da6f$2c004f50$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> <435FF497.5030702@att.net> <003c01c5dc2b$1a423c20$02fea8c0@Pteraphyte> Message-ID: <43657680.4030306@att.net> James A Rollins wrote: > The TV is (was) an RCA 52" diag. with rear projection) > Oh yes they do have oil in them. Ah, it must be the lenses, not the vacuum tube. I suppose they use an oil to get the refractive index they need? different tubes: one for red, for blue and one for green). This is a > rear view projection screen. The oil looks like mineral oil maybe just > a little less viscid. Each lens has about a pint of oil in it. > There is another related question: I have an old brass ship's compass. > It appears as if the needle is floating in oil. There is however a > problem, a large bubble has developed in the center. I would like to > replace this oil if I can only find out what it is. The oil is for dampening, so the compass card doesn't swing back and forth all the time. Most any clear, light oil will do, but I'd replace all of it, not just top it off, to avoid any interaction between different oils. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Balmer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:26 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] micromounts > > >> James A Rollins wrote: >>> This may not be exactly in line with minerals but does anyone know >>> what kind of oil is used in the picture tubes of large screen TV's? >>> Can it be used for oil immersion on a microscope? >>> James A Rollins >>> >> AFAIK, picture tubes have nothing in them except metal and vacuum. Do >> you mean LCD or one of the other modern flat screens? From magnet at crocoite.com Mon Oct 31 01:03:30 2005 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Mon Oct 31 01:03:41 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] No emails coming through?? Message-ID: <20051031090331.3835.qmail@webmachine101.com> I have had no emails for 2 days. Am I unsubscribed?? Regards Steve From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Oct 31 09:17:59 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 31 09:18:07 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Possible scam Message-ID: <8C7AC562D7EF585-1E9C-8F3@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com> Hi group, I have been involved in a scam, if anyone would like info on such, e-mail off list and I'll provide the details to you. I have already e-mailed a couple of folks on the list; Gene Hartstein and Michael Schmidt. Michael declined to answer me, but Gene and I discussed it. The US Attorney General and the FBI have been involved also. It was kind of interesting to go through. I lost no money, so I have no regrets, but it was a great learning experience. All of you have a good day. Dave Phillips Sunset Fossils & Minerals Morgantown, WV Betdav97@aol.com or WVFossils@aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Mon Oct 31 13:01:51 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Mon Oct 31 13:05:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Possible scam References: <8C7AC562D7EF585-1E9C-8F3@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001b01c5de5e$51204a90$6402a8c0@remains> Dave the last email I received from you was: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:17 AM I have an an email change recently, and have been travelling, so maybe I missed it. Please send it again. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: <> To: Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 10:17 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Possible scam > > Hi group, > I have been involved in a scam, if anyone would like info on such, e-mail > off list and I'll provide the details to you. I have already e-mailed a > couple > of folks on the list; Gene Hartstein and Michael Schmidt. Michael declined > to answer me, but Gene and I discussed it. The US Attorney General and > the FBI have been involved also. It was kind of interesting to go through. > I > lost no money, so I have no regrets, but it was a great learning > experience. > All of you have a good day. > Dave Phillips > Sunset Fossils & Minerals > Morgantown, WV > Betdav97@aol.com or > WVFossils@aol.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Mon Oct 31 13:31:22 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Oct 31 13:31:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Glass art Message-ID: I was on a photo expedition to our local 'antique town' tourist trap...Micanopy and spotted some stained glass works that include mineral thin slices: http://flickr.com/photos/49338102@N00/58169253/ is one of several. The one price I looked at was $700 ?!, but I thought some of the artsy-craftsy folks might be interested. BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Oct 31 13:33:48 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 31 13:33:56 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Possible scam In-Reply-To: <001b01c5de5e$51204a90$6402a8c0@remains> References: <8C7AC562D7EF585-1E9C-8F3@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com> <001b01c5de5e$51204a90$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <8C7AC79EA08E740-1454-3D46D@FWM-R28.sysops.aol.com> Hi Michael, I sent it to your old address at Sprint; sorry bout that, I just figured you were busy or it went to your spam box. The old mail was asking if you knew anything about this guy that was doing the ordering. Here is the info as of now. I was contacted by a fellow inquiring about dino bones, meteorites and rough diamonds. After exchanging e-mails a few times, he ordered approximately $600 worth of items. Great!, I can use the money. A little while later, UPS next day delivery, delivers a package containing 4 money orders from WalMart, for $920 each, for a total of $3680. In following e-mails, the fellow wants me to send $2000 to an account in England that he says he also owes money to. By this time and actually earlier, warning bells are starting to go off. After contacting authorities, the money was deposited in the bank with a hold on it. We found out today, that WalMart would not cash the money orders, and would not give my bank any more info. The matter is now in the hand of the FBI consumer affairs department. The money orders were from the Houston area, but they were mailed from Los Angeles. I have no idea how the fellow got my name, but I posted to the list, in case anyone else may have received similar e-mails. I have not heard from the fellow, since I e-mailed him and told him about the money orders. I am very curious to hear his reply, if I ever do hear from him again. The whole experience was enlightening and was neat to be in on the inside of an investigation. I still have the order, and no money was sent from my end, so I never lost anything at all. I just gained a lot of knowledge. This is a very condensed version of the story, because it actually continued for several months. If anything else comes to light, I'll let you know. Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Mon Oct 31 14:22:02 2005 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Mon Oct 31 14:22:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Possible scam References: <8C7AC562D7EF585-1E9C-8F3@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com> <001b01c5de5e$51204a90$6402a8c0@remains> <8C7AC79EA08E740-1454-3D46D@FWM-R28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <005601c5de69$8d0e1590$6402a8c0@remains> good thing you're not out anything. I have heard this same story from other people, but with slightly different details. on my end, I have yet to get a request such as this..... thanks for the warning, though. also beware of foreign credit card sales such as this.....I know a couple of people who have been stung like this Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Possible scam > > Hi Michael, > I sent it to your old address at Sprint; sorry bout that, I just figured > you were > busy or it went to your spam box. The old mail was asking if you knew > anything > about this guy that was doing the ordering. Here is the info as of now. > I was contacted by a fellow inquiring about dino bones, meteorites and > rough > diamonds. After exchanging e-mails a few times, he ordered approximately > $600 > worth of items. Great!, I can use the money. A little while later, UPS > next day > delivery, delivers a package containing 4 money orders from WalMart, for > $920 > each, for a total of $3680. In following e-mails, the fellow wants me to > send $2000 > to an account in England that he says he also owes money to. By this time > and > actually earlier, warning bells are starting to go off. After contacting > authorities, > the money was deposited in the bank with a hold on it. We found out today, > that > WalMart would not cash the money orders, and would not give my bank any > more > info. > The matter is now in the hand of the FBI consumer affairs department. The > money > orders were from the Houston area, but they were mailed from Los Angeles. > I have > no idea how the fellow got my name, but I posted to the list, in case > anyone else > may have received similar e-mails. I have not heard from the fellow, since > I e-mailed > him and told him about the money orders. I am very curious to hear his > reply, if I > ever do hear from him again. The whole experience was enlightening and was > neat to > be in on the inside of an investigation. I still have the order, and no > money was sent > from my end, so I never lost anything at all. I just gained a lot of > knowledge. This is a > very condensed version of the story, because it actually continued for > several months. > If anything else comes to light, I'll let you know. > Dave > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From stu at arcrystalmine.com Mon Oct 31 15:13:22 2005 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (stu@arcrystalmine.com) Date: Mon Oct 31 15:13:17 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Possible scam References: <8C7AC562D7EF585-1E9C-8F3@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com><001b01c5de5e$51204a90$6402a8c0@remains><8C7AC79EA08E740-1454-3D46D@FWM-R28.sysops.aol.com> <005601c5de69$8d0e1590$6402a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <00f001c5de70$b16ad840$6400a8c0@STUART> I've received several weird orders in the past from Europe and Nigeria. I played along for a while and they always wanted something else (open a bank account for them or a computer, etc.) When I pressed them for their credit card info to make sure it was legit, they never responded back. Let the seller beware. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Clear Creek & Sweet Surrender Crystal Mines www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schmidt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Possible scam > good thing you're not out anything. I have heard this same story from > other people, but with slightly different details. on my end, I have yet > to get a request such as this..... > > thanks for the warning, though. > > also beware of foreign credit card sales such as this.....I know a couple > of people who have been stung like this > > Michael > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 2:33 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Possible scam > > >> >> Hi Michael, >> I sent it to your old address at Sprint; sorry bout that, I just figured >> you were >> busy or it went to your spam box. The old mail was asking if you knew >> anything >> about this guy that was doing the ordering. Here is the info as of now. >> I was contacted by a fellow inquiring about dino bones, meteorites and >> rough >> diamonds. After exchanging e-mails a few times, he ordered approximately >> $600 >> worth of items. Great!, I can use the money. A little while later, UPS >> next day >> delivery, delivers a package containing 4 money orders from WalMart, for >> $920 >> each, for a total of $3680. In following e-mails, the fellow wants me to >> send $2000 >> to an account in England that he says he also owes money to. By this time >> and >> actually earlier, warning bells are starting to go off. After contacting >> authorities, >> the money was deposited in the bank with a hold on it. We found out >> today, that >> WalMart would not cash the money orders, and would not give my bank any >> more >> info. >> The matter is now in the hand of the FBI consumer affairs department. >> The money >> orders were from the Houston area, but they were mailed from Los Angeles. >> I have >> no idea how the fellow got my name, but I posted to the list, in case >> anyone else >> may have received similar e-mails. I have not heard from the fellow, >> since I e-mailed >> him and told him about the money orders. I am very curious to hear his >> reply, if I >> ever do hear from him again. The whole experience was enlightening and >> was neat to >> be in on the inside of an investigation. I still have the order, and no >> money was sent >> from my end, so I never lost anything at all. I just gained a lot of >> knowledge. This is a >> very condensed version of the story, because it actually continued for >> several months. >> If anything else comes to light, I'll let you know. >> Dave >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Oct 31 15:33:31 2005 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 31 15:33:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] My apologies to the list Message-ID: <8C7AC8AA336BCDC-167C-1014A@FWM-R43.sysops.aol.com> I feel that should apologize to the list in general. I meant to keep this matter somewhat private and only tell the other vendors on the list; so that they would be aware also. It does make interesting reading and yes, I even enjoyed the mystery aspects of it all and didn't mind playing along with the deal. But I didn't mean to blab it. I thought I sent it out privately, and didn't check on Michaels mail, thus I sent it out to the entire list. I am really embarrassed that this happened. I have nothing else to say, Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bobl at peaktopeak.com Mon Oct 31 15:44:35 2005 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Mon Oct 31 15:44:45 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] My apologies to the list In-Reply-To: <8C7AC8AA336BCDC-167C-1014A@FWM-R43.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200510312344.j9VNigJ0021059@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hey Dave, I'm glad you accidentally sent it to the list. I'm not a dealer, but I was curious to hear some of the details. Now that you have mentioned that it was regarding the purchase of dino bones, meteorites and rough diamonds, we know that it was relevant to our hobby and this mailing list, so you shouldn't be embarrassed. Now all of the dealers on our list can watch out for this kind of thing even more than they might've been doing. Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of betdav97@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 4:34 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] My apologies to the list I feel that should apologize to the list in general. I meant to keep this matter somewhat private and only tell the other vendors on the list; so that they would be aware also. It does make interesting reading and yes, I even enjoyed the mystery aspects of it all and didn't mind playing along with the deal. But I didn't mean to blab it. I thought I sent it out privately, and didn't check on Michaels mail, thus I sent it out to the entire list. I am really embarrassed that this happened. I have nothing else to say, Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From albalmer at att.net Mon Oct 31 15:52:18 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Oct 31 15:52:22 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Possible scam In-Reply-To: <8C7AC79EA08E740-1454-3D46D@FWM-R28.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C7AC562D7EF585-1E9C-8F3@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com> <001b01c5de5e$51204a90$6402a8c0@remains> <8C7AC79EA08E740-1454-3D46D@FWM-R28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4366AE32.7030404@att.net> betdav97@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Michael, > I sent it to your old address at Sprint; sorry bout that, I just figured you were > busy or it went to your spam box. The old mail was asking if you knew anything > about this guy that was doing the ordering. Here is the info as of now. > I was contacted by a fellow inquiring about dino bones, meteorites and rough > diamonds. After exchanging e-mails a few times, he ordered approximately $600 > worth of items. Great!, I can use the money. A little while later, UPS next day > delivery, delivers a package containing 4 money orders from WalMart, for $920 > each, for a total of $3680. In following e-mails, the fellow wants me to send $2000 > to an account in England that he says he also owes money to. By this time and > actually earlier, warning bells are starting to go off. After contacting authorities, > the money was deposited in the bank with a hold on it. We found out today, that > WalMart would not cash the money orders, and would not give my bank any more > info. The money orders are forged or stolen. The merchandise, and your $2000, is their profit if you play the game. The left-over thousand or so is supposed to appeal to your greed. The same scam is being played around here (Phoenix, AZ) with forged cashier's checks, commonly targeting folks who advertise cars for sale. The check is for more than the sale, and they ask you to give them part of the balance. If you fall for it, they have your cash, and the car is resold, probably in Mexico. The forgeries are good enough to fool the cashier at the bank when you deposit it. > The matter is now in the hand of the FBI consumer affairs department. The money > orders were from the Houston area, but they were mailed from Los Angeles. I have > no idea how the fellow got my name, but I posted to the list, in case anyone else > may have received similar e-mails. I have not heard from the fellow, since I e-mailed > him and told him about the money orders. I am very curious to hear his reply, if I > ever do hear from him again. The whole experience was enlightening and was neat to > be in on the inside of an investigation. I still have the order, and no money was sent > from my end, so I never lost anything at all. I just gained a lot of knowledge. This is a > very condensed version of the story, because it actually continued for several months. > If anything else comes to light, I'll let you know. > Dave > From albalmer at att.net Mon Oct 31 15:54:23 2005 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Oct 31 15:54:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] My apologies to the list In-Reply-To: <8C7AC8AA336BCDC-167C-1014A@FWM-R43.sysops.aol.com> References: <8C7AC8AA336BCDC-167C-1014A@FWM-R43.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4366AEAF.6060708@att.net> betdav97@aol.com wrote: > > I feel that should apologize to the list in general. I meant to keep this > matter somewhat private and only tell the other vendors on the list; so > that they would be aware also. It does make interesting reading and yes, > I even enjoyed the mystery aspects of it all and didn't mind playing along > with the deal. But I didn't mean to blab it. Why not? If they're targeting rock and mineral sellers, it's surely on-topic. > I thought I sent it out privately, > and didn't check on Michaels mail, thus I sent it out to the entire list. I am > really embarrassed that this happened. Why? It looks like you reacted properly. I can understand being embarrassed for the human race ;-) > I have nothing else to say, > Dave From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Oct 31 16:00:46 2005 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Oct 31 16:00:25 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] My apologies to the list In-Reply-To: <4366AEAF.6060708@att.net> References: <8C7AC8AA336BCDC-167C-1014A@FWM-R43.sysops.aol.com> <4366AEAF.6060708@att.net> Message-ID: <4366B02E.3000805@verizon.net> Al Balmer wrote: > betdav97@aol.com wrote: Dave, Just to keep it short--you did the right thing in reporting it, and this is the kind of thing that affects all of us. Most of us have our e-mail addresses out there on the net, or have websites, and are likely to get scam e-mails at any time. Best, Don From agesilaus at gmail.com Mon Oct 31 17:30:09 2005 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Oct 31 17:30:12 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Possible scam In-Reply-To: <00f001c5de70$b16ad840$6400a8c0@STUART> References: <8C7AC562D7EF585-1E9C-8F3@FWM-R34.sysops.aol.com> <001b01c5de5e$51204a90$6402a8c0@remains> <8C7AC79EA08E740-1454-3D46D@FWM-R28.sysops.aol.com> <005601c5de69$8d0e1590$6402a8c0@remains> <00f001c5de70$b16ad840$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: Well the main thing this shows is that you can rarely scam an honest person. BK On 10/31/05, stu@arcrystalmine.com wrote: > > I've received several weird orders in the past from Europe and Nigeria. I > played along for a while and they always wanted something else (open a > bank > account for them or a computer, etc.) When I pressed them for their credit > card info to make sure it was legit, they never responded back. Let the > seller beware. > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Clear Creek & > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mines > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Schmidt" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 4:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Possible scam > > > > good thing you're not out anything. I have heard this same story from > > other people, but with slightly different details. on my end, I have yet > > to get a request such as this..... > > > > thanks for the warning, though. > > > > also beware of foreign credit card sales such as this.....I know a > couple > > of people who have been stung like this > > > > Michael > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 2:33 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Possible scam > > > > > >> > >> Hi Michael, > >> I sent it to your old address at Sprint; sorry bout that, I just > figured > >> you were > >> busy or it went to your spam box. The old mail was asking if you knew > >> anything > >> about this guy that was doing the ordering. Here is the info as of now. > >> I was contacted by a fellow inquiring about dino bones, meteorites and > >> rough > >> diamonds. After exchanging e-mails a few times, he ordered > approximately > >> $600 > >> worth of items. Great!, I can use the money. A little while later, UPS > >> next day > >> delivery, delivers a package containing 4 money orders from WalMart, > for > >> $920 > >> each, for a total of $3680. In following e-mails, the fellow wants me > to > >> send $2000 > >> to an account in England that he says he also owes money to. By this > time > >> and > >> actually earlier, warning bells are starting to go off. After > contacting > >> authorities, > >> the money was deposited in the bank with a hold on it. We found out > >> today, that > >> WalMart would not cash the money orders, and would not give my bank any > >> more > >> info. > >> The matter is now in the hand of the FBI consumer affairs department. > >> The money > >> orders were from the Houston area, but they were mailed from Los > Angeles. > >> I have > >> no idea how the fellow got my name, but I posted to the list, in case > >> anyone else > >> may have received similar e-mails. I have not heard from the fellow, > >> since I e-mailed > >> him and told him about the money orders. I am very curious to hear his > >> reply, if I > >> ever do hear from him again. The whole experience was enlightening and > >> was neat to > >> be in on the inside of an investigation. I still have the order, and no > >> money was sent > >> from my end, so I never lost anything at all. I just gained a lot of > >> knowledge. This is a > >> very condensed version of the story, because it actually continued for > >> several months. > >> If anything else comes to light, I'll let you know. > >> Dave > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >> --- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > WWW: http://www.drizzle.com/~afox/rockhounds > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tome61 at aol.com Mon Oct 31 18:47:33 2005 From: tome61 at aol.com (tome61@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 31 18:47:38 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Possible Scam In-Reply-To: <200511010202.jA122N6I019777@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200511010202.jA122N6I019777@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <8C7ACA5BE514B99-13B8-1F61@MBLK-M25.sysops.aol.com> Dave, I salute you for posting the information about the possible scam and I don't think you should feel the least bit uncomfortable about having done it. This type of warning on our behalf is as important as the hazardous minerals discussion from a few weeks back, although I'm quite sure we can contain this particular discussion so that it doesn't mushroom all that much. I receive scam-spam all the time, but I NEVER would have thought of getting anything related to my favorite hobby. And given the eBays and other auction and swap groups out there for minerals, etc., its NOT JUST the dealers who might be at risk--potentially, any of us could be. Thanks again. Regards, Tom Russell From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 31 19:14:40 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 31 19:12:11 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] No emails coming through?? References: <20051031090331.3835.qmail@webmachine101.com> Message-ID: <4366DD01.672F@Tomaszewski.net> magnet wrote: > > I have had no emails for 2 days. Am I unsubscribed?? > > Regards > Steve Hi Steve, The best way to wake up a sleepy list is to make a posting, or ask an on-topic question. If your posting makes it to the list you know you are still subscribed. My guess is that most of the list is taking advantage of the weather to get in some last minute rockhounding before winter sets in. Hopefully we will get some interesting postings soon about what was collected. I didn't get to go collecting this past weekend, but I did spend some time going thru some of the stuff I collected this past summer in the Keweenaw Peninsula. I found that some of the copper I collected at the Cliff Mine also had silver crystals. Now I am trying to decide if I should etch them out a bit or just enjoy the exposed thin vein on the broken surface of the matrix. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 31 19:52:45 2005 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 31 19:50:09 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about displaying a specimen of crude oil Message-ID: <4366E5E8.5412@Tomaszewski.net> Hey List, I have an opportunity to acquire a small amount of crude oil from a local well. I think this would be an interesting addition to my collection, but I am concerned on how I can safely display it. I have been considering a laboratory acid bottle with a glass stopper that I would seal with (hot) paraffin. Has anyone had experience with long term storage/display of samples of crude oil that can suggest something better? My key concerns are spilling or evaporation -- is there something else I should be concerned with? The display case will be fairly constant room temperature (70 F), but might vary between 50 and 90 F. I would like to avoid having the area smell like an oil well. Thanks for your suggestions! Kreigh From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Oct 31 19:58:02 2005 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Oct 31 20:18:08 2005 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about displaying a specimen of crude oil In-Reply-To: <4366E5E8.5412@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <005601c5de98$75cece90$0500a8c0@okapi> I can speak right to this! Sitting in front of me are two bottles of crude that I got when I worked for Mobil back in the mid 1970's. One is a glass medicine container with a screw top. That's got a light (56 API) oil from Petrolia Shelby Wood No. 1... One of the first wells in California. The other is a wider jar with a metal screw top. That has some 42 API from a well I helped to site in the Santa Barbara Channel. This puppy is from the 17,753 foot level and is worth (if you count the drilling cost!) about $50,000...since the ()&^)(&)&( well didn't really produce a heck of lot of oil. Neither one has shown ANY evaporation over the 30 years that I've had them. Short answer... If you've got something with a good seal on it, not to worry! Gary Brown > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kreigh Tomaszewski > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 9:53 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about displaying a specimen of > crude oil > > Hey List, > > I have an opportunity to acquire a small amount of crude oil > from a local well. I think this would be an interesting > addition to my collection, but I am concerned on how I can > safely display it. > > I have been considering a laboratory acid bottle with a glass > stopper that I would seal with (hot) paraffin. > > Has anyone had experience with long term storage/display of > samples of crude oil that can suggest something better? > > My key concerns are spilling or evaporation -- is there > something else I should be concerned with? The display case > will be fairly constant room temperature (70 F), but might > vary between 50 and 90 F. I would like to avoid having the > area smell like an oil well. > > Thanks for your suggestions! > > Kreigh