From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Tue Aug 1 05:44:58 2006 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Tue Aug 1 05:44:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grassy Creek Show Message-ID: <44CF4CCA.7080306@ncmail.net> List, Several people have asked about dates and times for the Grassy Creek Show. In case you are not aware, the Grassy Creek venue is an outdoors show on the property of the Grassy Creek Fire and Rescue. They are on the west side of NC highway 226, between the Blue Ridge Parkway and Spruce Pine, you can't miss it, look for the traffic. Dealers started arriving last Sunday, and are open everyday till next Sunday 8/6. Hours are unofficially light till dark. There is an indoor show at the Pinebridge Arena in Spruce Pine, but the number of minerals has fallen every year, I rarely go down there any more. A word of caution about Grassy Creek, the weather is very fickle. Be prepared for very hot. If it rains, as it always does, be prepared for mud. Wear very comfortable shoes. Think sunscreen, hat, even an umbrella. Hope to see yall there. Kenny NCGS From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Tue Aug 1 05:47:29 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Tue Aug 1 05:47:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grassy Creek Show In-Reply-To: <44CF4CCA.7080306@ncmail.net> References: <44CF4CCA.7080306@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <44CF4D61.3070100@jeanniusdesigns.com> any suggestions for the most direct route from Asheville? Jeanne ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kenny Gay wrote: > List, > Several people have asked about dates and times for the Grassy Creek > Show. > In case you are not aware, the Grassy Creek venue is an outdoors show > on the property of the Grassy Creek Fire and Rescue. > They are on the west side of NC highway 226, between the Blue Ridge > Parkway and Spruce Pine, you can't miss it, look for the traffic. > Dealers started arriving last Sunday, and are open everyday till next > Sunday 8/6. Hours are unofficially light till dark. > There is an indoor show at the Pinebridge Arena in Spruce Pine, but > the number of minerals has fallen every year, I rarely go down there > any more. > A word of caution about Grassy Creek, the weather is very fickle. Be > prepared for very hot. If it rains, as it always does, be prepared for > mud. > Wear very comfortable shoes. Think sunscreen, hat, even an umbrella. > Hope to see yall there. > Kenny > NCGS --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Aug 1 05:51:52 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Aug 1 05:52:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Grassy Creek Show In-Reply-To: <44CF4D61.3070100@jeanniusdesigns.com> References: <44CF4CCA.7080306@ncmail.net> <44CF4D61.3070100@jeanniusdesigns.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608010551n37e59da6mbe7c67814a8ff32f@mail.gmail.com> I would assume the best route would be North on I-26 out of Asheville to exit 9 at Burnsville, take that exit, then make a right. Drive about 25 miles to Spruce Pine. Take a right onto 226. Drew On 8/1/06, Jeanne Rhodes Moen wrote: > > any suggestions for the most direct route from Asheville? > > Jeanne > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com > > > Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com > > *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* > > *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Kenny Gay wrote: > > List, > > Several people have asked about dates and times for the Grassy Creek > > Show. > > In case you are not aware, the Grassy Creek venue is an outdoors show > > on the property of the Grassy Creek Fire and Rescue. > > They are on the west side of NC highway 226, between the Blue Ridge > > Parkway and Spruce Pine, you can't miss it, look for the traffic. > > Dealers started arriving last Sunday, and are open everyday till next > > Sunday 8/6. Hours are unofficially light till dark. > > There is an indoor show at the Pinebridge Arena in Spruce Pine, but > > the number of minerals has fallen every year, I rarely go down there > > any more. > > A word of caution about Grassy Creek, the weather is very fickle. Be > > prepared for very hot. If it rains, as it always does, be prepared for > > mud. > > Wear very comfortable shoes. Think sunscreen, hat, even an umbrella. > > Hope to see yall there. > > Kenny > > NCGS > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From flint...smith at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 1 09:47:54 2006 From: flint...smith at sbcglobal.net (Flint Smith) Date: Tue Aug 1 09:47:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FIeld Trip to Mars! A Report from John Carter In-Reply-To: <200607311524.k6VFOMrd076732@mail2.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <20060801164754.77095.qmail@web82506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Isn't there another adventure in which he finds entire cliffs made of multicolored precious gems? I seem to remember a pitched battle with white apes there. Steve Johnson wrote: ... as narrated by Edgar Rice Burroughs: "It was midday, the sun was shining full upon me and the heat of it was rather intense upon my body, yet no greater than would have been true under similar conditions on an Arizona desert. Here and there were slight outcroppings of quartz-bearing rock which glistened in the sunlight; and a little to my left, perhaps a hundred yards, appeared a low, walled enclosure about four feet in height. No water, and no other vegetation than the moss was in evidence, and as I was somewhat thirsty I determined to do a little exploring." Sounds like Panamint Valley to me! - Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Aug 1 16:07:47 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Aug 1 16:07:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox Message-ID: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> I have been trying to find some translucent (opaque) plexiglass so that I can build a few lightboxes for me and my friends. I have checked Lowe's, the local hardware store in and online, but can't seem to find any that is suitable. Has anyone made a DIY lightbox, if so, where did you get the plexi? Thanks, Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Tue Aug 1 16:15:43 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Aug 1 16:15:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com > References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060801161516.03c9f2c8@orerockon.com> I would make my own by sandblasting clear plexiglass. At 04:07 PM 8/1/2006, you wrote: >I have been trying to find some translucent (opaque) plexiglass so that I >can build a few lightboxes for me and my friends. I have checked Lowe's, >the local hardware store in and online, but can't seem to find any that is >suitable. Has anyone made a DIY lightbox, if so, where did you get the >plexi? > >Thanks, >Drew > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Aug 1 17:07:01 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Aug 1 17:07:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just take sandpaper to the transparent material, sand down both sides and you'll have double frosted material. Actually I just used white cotton cloth on mine, pvc for the frame. But the strobist has an even cheaper idea: And if anyone is interested in cheap flash photography I highly recommend the Strobist 101 on that site. He has become wildly popular among photographers. BK On 8/1/06, Drew wrote: > > I have been trying to find some translucent (opaque) plexiglass so that I > can build a few lightboxes for me and my friends. I have checked Lowe's, > the local hardware store in and online, but can't seem to find any that is > suitable. Has anyone made a DIY lightbox, if so, where did you get the > plexi? > > Thanks, > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 06:10:05 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Aug 2 06:10:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608020610g73d2f8c8pa3639cf663ef80d4@mail.gmail.com> I hadn't thought about manipulating the clear stuff... Thanks for the suggestions, I will put them to good work next week! Thanks Bryan for the link to that blog, that is a great blog and has some great ideas! Drew On 8/1/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Just take sandpaper to the transparent material, sand down both sides and > you'll have double frosted material. > > Actually I just used white cotton cloth on mine, pvc for the frame. But > the > strobist has an even cheaper idea: > > < > http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/07/how-to-diy-10-macro-photo-studio.html > > > > And if anyone is interested in cheap flash photography I highly recommend > the Strobist 101 on that site. He has become wildly popular among > photographers. > > BK > > On 8/1/06, Drew wrote: > > > > I have been trying to find some translucent (opaque) plexiglass so that > I > > can build a few lightboxes for me and my friends. I have checked > Lowe's, > > the local hardware store in and online, but can't seem to find any that > is > > suitable. Has anyone made a DIY lightbox, if so, where did you get the > > plexi? > > > > Thanks, > > Drew > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Aug 2 10:00:52 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Aug 2 11:34:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004501c6b655$878bf690$0300a8c0@Notebook> Drew, I've made a lot of lightboxes for graphics applications. Ideally, you should use tempered glass for the top because Plexiglas (acrylic), Lexan (polycarbonate) or any other plastics will scratch, sag, etc. (I'm assuming here that it's not just used to backlight and that you'll be working on the surface). The glass is backed by a diffuser of some sort - 1/8 inch milk Plex works great (but even paper will work) which is taped to the glass around the edges. Use fluorescent lights as incandescents produce too much heat. Vent the box with several holes as even fluorescents produce heat. Larger lightboxes (I've built them up to 10' x 20') require posts in the center to support the glass (1/2 inch dowels work great). Be sure to paint the inside of the box white to reflect the light. If you check for "plastics" in any big city phonebook you should be able to find a supplier. Good luck - John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 4:07 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox >I have been trying to find some translucent (opaque) plexiglass so that I > can build a few lightboxes for me and my friends. I have checked Lowe's, > the local hardware store in and online, but can't seem to find any that is > suitable. Has anyone made a DIY lightbox, if so, where did you get the > plexi? > > Thanks, > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jpjunk at mc.net Wed Aug 2 11:59:20 2006 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Wed Aug 2 11:59:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Years ago I built one using a plastic ( probably not plexiglass) cover replacement for a fluorescent ceiling light. The type that sets into the gridwork in acoustical tile drop ceilings. Select one with the smallest, finest pattern. John On Aug 1, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Drew wrote: > I have been trying to find some translucent (opaque) plexiglass so > that I > can build a few lightboxes for me and my friends. I have checked > Lowe's, > the local hardware store in and online, but can't seem to find any > that is > suitable. Has anyone made a DIY lightbox, if so, where did you get > the > plexi? > > Thanks, > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > From efkern at earthlink.net Wed Aug 2 13:57:52 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Wed Aug 2 13:57:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> John has a great idea here. I recently had to buy some replacement panels for our mineral club ceiling lights. DIY stores such as Home Depot stock many types of 2 X 4 foot panels for fluorescent ceiling fixtures. They may even have translucent white. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Junkroski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox Years ago I built one using a plastic ( probably not plexiglass) cover replacement for a fluorescent ceiling light. The type that sets into the gridwork in acoustical tile drop ceilings. Select one with the smallest, finest pattern. John On Aug 1, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Drew wrote: > I have been trying to find some translucent (opaque) plexiglass so > that I > can build a few lightboxes for me and my friends. I have checked > Lowe's, > the local hardware store in and online, but can't seem to find any > that is > suitable. Has anyone made a DIY lightbox, if so, where did you get > the > plexi? > > Thanks, > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Aug 2 15:10:04 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Aug 2 15:10:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> John, Erich, Are the covers textured? I know mine is on one side, but haven't paid attention to the underside (the side closest the tubes). Since a stepladder is involved to remove them, I thought I'd aire on the side of laziness and ask. Drew On 8/2/06, Erich Kern wrote: > > > > John has a great idea here. I recently had to buy some replacement panels > for our mineral club > ceiling lights. DIY stores such as Home Depot stock many types of 2 X 4 > foot panels for > fluorescent ceiling fixtures. They may even have translucent white. > > Erich > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Junkroski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox > > > Years ago I built one using a plastic ( probably not plexiglass) > cover replacement for a fluorescent ceiling light. The type that sets > into the gridwork in acoustical tile drop ceilings. Select one with > the smallest, finest pattern. > > John > > On Aug 1, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Drew wrote: > > > I have been trying to find some translucent (opaque) plexiglass so > > that I > > can build a few lightboxes for me and my friends. I have checked > > Lowe's, > > the local hardware store in and online, but can't seem to find any > > that is > > suitable. Has anyone made a DIY lightbox, if so, where did you get > > the > > plexi? > > > > Thanks, > > Drew > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Wed Aug 2 15:39:37 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Aug 2 15:39:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ca2d2lso9o2p92q2gc8o8e0dam17cpfns@4ax.com> On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 18:10:04 -0400, Drew wrote: >John, Erich, > >Are the covers textured? I know mine is on one side, but haven't paid >attention to the underside (the side closest the tubes). Since a stepladder >is involved to remove them, I thought I'd aire on the side of laziness and >ask. > The ones I've used are textured only on one side. >Drew > >On 8/2/06, Erich Kern wrote: >> >> >> >> John has a great idea here. I recently had to buy some replacement panels >> for our mineral club >> ceiling lights. DIY stores such as Home Depot stock many types of 2 X 4 >> foot panels for >> fluorescent ceiling fixtures. They may even have translucent white. >> >> Erich >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Junkroski" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:59 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox >> >> >> Years ago I built one using a plastic ( probably not plexiglass) >> cover replacement for a fluorescent ceiling light. The type that sets >> into the gridwork in acoustical tile drop ceilings. Select one with >> the smallest, finest pattern. >> >> John >> >> On Aug 1, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Drew wrote: >> >> > I have been trying to find some translucent (opaque) plexiglass so >> > that I >> > can build a few lightboxes for me and my friends. I have checked >> > Lowe's, >> > the local hardware store in and online, but can't seem to find any >> > that is >> > suitable. Has anyone made a DIY lightbox, if so, where did you get >> > the >> > plexi? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Drew >> > >> > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > multipart/alternative >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > text/html >> > --- >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From jpjunk at mc.net Wed Aug 2 17:46:41 2006 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Wed Aug 2 17:46:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <0861E635-8905-4A8B-8A50-E8DBC4875BC9@mc.net> Drew, The one I used was textured, it had tiny pyramid-shaped depressions pressed into it, and I believe it was a translucent, milky white. Best thing was the price... less than two bucks, and they certainly are easy enough to find. The only downside was the brittleness; cutting them to size without cracking them was a bit tricky. John On Aug 2, 2006, at 5:10 PM, Drew wrote: > John, Erich, > > Are the covers textured? I know mine is on one side, but haven't paid > attention to the underside (the side closest the tubes). Since a > stepladder > is involved to remove them, I thought I'd aire on the side of > laziness and > ask. > > Drew > > On 8/2/06, Erich Kern wrote: > >> >> >> >> John has a great idea here. I recently had to buy some replacement >> panels >> for our mineral club >> ceiling lights. DIY stores such as Home Depot stock many types of >> 2 X 4 >> foot panels for >> fluorescent ceiling fixtures. They may even have translucent white. >> >> Erich >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Junkroski" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:59 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox >> >> >> Years ago I built one using a plastic ( probably not plexiglass) >> cover replacement for a fluorescent ceiling light. The type that sets >> into the gridwork in acoustical tile drop ceilings. Select one with >> the smallest, finest pattern. >> >> John >> >> On Aug 1, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Drew wrote: >> >> > I have been trying to find some translucent (opaque) plexiglass so >> > that I >> > can build a few lightboxes for me and my friends. I have checked >> > Lowe's, >> > the local hardware store in and online, but can't seem to find any >> > that is >> > suitable. Has anyone made a DIY lightbox, if so, where did you get >> > the >> > plexi? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Drew >> > >> > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > multipart/alternative >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > text/html >> > --- >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > From efkern at earthlink.net Wed Aug 2 21:57:23 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Wed Aug 2 21:57:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com><000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder> Drew, The covers I'm familiar with have a diamond pattern (diffuses light) texture on the side towards the room. The side toward the bulbs is smooth which makes that side easy to clean with a damp cloth....I have cleaned many. There are others at Home Depot, and the sizes vary slightly depending on what model fixture it fits. These are sold for replacement of busted diffusers. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox John, Erich, Are the covers textured? I know mine is on one side, but haven't paid attention to the underside (the side closest the tubes). Since a stepladder is involved to remove them, I thought I'd aire on the side of laziness and ask. Drew On 8/2/06, Erich Kern wrote: > > > > John has a great idea here. I recently had to buy some replacement panels > for our mineral club > ceiling lights. DIY stores such as Home Depot stock many types of 2 X 4 > foot panels for > fluorescent ceiling fixtures. They may even have translucent white. > > Erich > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Junkroski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:59 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox > > > Years ago I built one using a plastic ( probably not plexiglass) > cover replacement for a fluorescent ceiling light. The type that sets > into the gridwork in acoustical tile drop ceilings. Select one with > the smallest, finest pattern. > > John > > On Aug 1, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Drew wrote: > > > I have been trying to find some translucent (opaque) plexiglass so > > that I > > can build a few lightboxes for me and my friends. I have checked > > Lowe's, > > the local hardware store in and online, but can't seem to find any > > that is > > suitable. Has anyone made a DIY lightbox, if so, where did you get > > the > > plexi? > > > > Thanks, > > Drew > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 04:32:55 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Aug 3 04:33:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> <001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, but couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new fixture, but not replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while down in Asheville. Thanks, Drew On 8/3/06, Erich Kern wrote: > > > Drew, > > The covers I'm familiar with have a diamond pattern (diffuses light) > texture on the side towards > the room. The side toward the bulbs is smooth which makes that side easy > to clean with a damp > cloth....I have cleaned many. > > There are others at Home Depot, and the sizes vary slightly depending on > what model fixture it > fits. These are sold for replacement of busted diffusers. > > Erich > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Drew" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 3:10 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox > > > John, Erich, > > Are the covers textured? I know mine is on one side, but haven't paid > attention to the underside (the side closest the tubes). Since a > stepladder > is involved to remove them, I thought I'd aire on the side of laziness and > ask. > > Drew > > On 8/2/06, Erich Kern wrote: > > > > > > > > John has a great idea here. I recently had to buy some replacement > panels > > for our mineral club > > ceiling lights. DIY stores such as Home Depot stock many types of 2 X 4 > > foot panels for > > fluorescent ceiling fixtures. They may even have translucent white. > > > > Erich > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Junkroski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:59 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox > > > > > > Years ago I built one using a plastic ( probably not plexiglass) > > cover replacement for a fluorescent ceiling light. The type that sets > > into the gridwork in acoustical tile drop ceilings. Select one with > > the smallest, finest pattern. > > > > John > > > > On Aug 1, 2006, at 6:07 PM, Drew wrote: > > > > > I have been trying to find some translucent (opaque) plexiglass so > > > that I > > > can build a few lightboxes for me and my friends. I have checked > > > Lowe's, > > > the local hardware store in and online, but can't seem to find any > > > that is > > > suitable. Has anyone made a DIY lightbox, if so, where did you get > > > the > > > plexi? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Drew > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 04:37:46 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Aug 3 04:37:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> <001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Strange, it's used for drop in ceilings and they should have it in several different types. BK On 8/3/06, Drew wrote: > > Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, but > couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new fixture, but > not > replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while down in > Asheville. > > Thanks, > Drew > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 05:47:31 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Aug 3 05:47:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> <001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608030547l2daf445cwe17c7a13a42c626a@mail.gmail.com> This Lowe's store shouldn't even have "Hardware" in the name... it is a pretty sorry place. To beat it all, when it came in town, it shutdown or crippled all the good old Hardware stores. Drew On 8/3/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Strange, it's used for drop in ceilings and they should have it in several > different types. > > BK > > > On 8/3/06, Drew wrote: > > > > Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, > but > > couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new fixture, but > > not > > replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while down > in > > Asheville. > > > > Thanks, > > Drew > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Thu Aug 3 06:19:46 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Aug 3 06:19:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608030547l2daf445cwe17c7a13a42c626a@mail.gmail.com > References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> <001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040608030547l2daf445cwe17c7a13a42c626a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060803061451.0335fa00@orerockon.com> Don't they all. I for one refuse to patronize Lowes (sadly I am more or less forced to patronize HD or drive 15 miles to the nearest "real" hardware store since 2 have closed since the aforementioned megastores moved in). And HD has about 5 or 6 styles of replacement plastic, last time I looked. Lowe's, IMO, is for people who watch those stupid home improvement shows on cable. HD is for people who actually DO their own home improvements :P At 05:47 AM 8/3/2006, you wrote: >This Lowe's store shouldn't even have "Hardware" in the name... it is a >pretty sorry place. To beat it all, when it came in town, it shutdown or >crippled all the good old Hardware stores. > >Drew > > >On 8/3/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> >>Strange, it's used for drop in ceilings and they should have it in several >>different types. >> >>BK >> >> >>On 8/3/06, Drew wrote: >> > >> > Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, >>but >> > couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new fixture, but >> > not >> > replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while down >>in >> > Asheville. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Drew >> > > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From albalmer at att.net Thu Aug 3 07:56:17 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Aug 3 07:56:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> <001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:32:55 -0400, Drew wrote: >Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, but >couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new fixture, but not >replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while down in >Asheville. > You may be asking for the wrong thing. These are not part of a fixture, but panels which go into a drop ceiling. You'd probably find them in the ceiling department, not lighting. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 08:02:56 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Aug 3 08:03:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> <001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608030802h69b8b403paf7578168b312c96@mail.gmail.com> Al, That may be the case, I will check again (although I never turn down an opportunity to rant about Lowe's!). Drew On 8/3/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:32:55 -0400, Drew wrote: > > >Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, but > >couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new fixture, but > not > >replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while down > in > >Asheville. > > > You may be asking for the wrong thing. These are not part of a > fixture, but panels which go into a drop ceiling. You'd probably find > them in the ceiling department, not lighting. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Thu Aug 3 08:03:07 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Aug 3 08:03:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608030547l2daf445cwe17c7a13a42c626a@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> <001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040608030547l2daf445cwe17c7a13a42c626a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9n34d2dbg36202cfq3iu05oa55tf0tfc26@4ax.com> On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 08:47:31 -0400, Drew wrote: >This Lowe's store shouldn't even have "Hardware" in the name... it is a >pretty sorry place. To beat it all, when it came in town, it shutdown or >crippled all the good old Hardware stores. > The Lowes I was talking about doesn't have "hardware" in the name, it's Lowes Home Improvement. They're much like Home Depot, better for some things, not as good for others, but pretty much the same merchandise. Here in Phoenix, the big box home improvement stores certainly haven't driven smaller hardware stores out of business. They're going strong, and in fact a new True Value just opened in my area, within three miles of both a Lowes and a Home Depot. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Aug 3 09:13:26 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Aug 3 09:13:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digest Message-ID: <03701458-D8F0-4A97-8C00-029A796C199D@cox.net> Morning, does this list offer a digest? Tried to find one, without success. Thanks Terrie From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 09:20:47 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Aug 3 09:20:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digest In-Reply-To: <03701458-D8F0-4A97-8C00-029A796C199D@cox.net> References: <03701458-D8F0-4A97-8C00-029A796C199D@cox.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040608030920j17b48596x9d972a384bc5bea@mail.gmail.com> I see on this page that when you sign up you can sign up for digest, http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds. Not sure if you would need to unsubscribe and then resubscribe or if you could just enter all your info again. Drew On 8/3/06, Teresa Masters wrote: > > Morning, does this list offer a digest? Tried to find one, without > success. > Thanks > Terrie > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gramtam at mac.com Thu Aug 3 09:57:08 2006 From: gramtam at mac.com (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Aug 3 10:09:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digest In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608030920j17b48596x9d972a384bc5bea@mail.gmail.com> References: <03701458-D8F0-4A97-8C00-029A796C199D@cox.net> <7aac8040608030920j17b48596x9d972a384bc5bea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Drew, Thank you, yes I see it, but could not figure out how to utilize it. Waiting for admin, thanks Terrie From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Aug 3 10:35:21 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Thu Aug 3 10:45:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digest References: <03701458-D8F0-4A97-8C00-029A796C199D@cox.net><7aac8040608030920j17b48596x9d972a384bc5bea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005101c6b723$37470f20$0200a8c0@warren> Teresa: All you do is click On on the Set Digest Mode section and then click Submit My Changes at the bottom of the page. That will set your account to digest mode, and you'll only receive one or two Rockhounds e-mails per day. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teresa Masters" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 9:57 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Digest > Drew, > Thank you, yes I see it, but could not figure out how to utilize it. > Waiting for admin, > thanks > Terrie > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 11:07:19 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Aug 3 11:07:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question Message-ID: I'm selling my first item on Ebay, a camera lens. I know a lot of you sell stuff there. I'm being bombarded with emails by one fellow who wants me to take his offer for the item and cancel the auction. My reading of the Ebay contract says this is not permissible. I didn't set a buy-right-now price. I've told this fellow that I feel ethically constrained to let the auction run it's course but he won't give up. Any words of wisdom from you more experienced Ebay sellers? BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 3 11:18:18 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 3 11:17:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > I'm selling my first item on Ebay, a camera lens. I know a lot of you sell > stuff there. I'm being bombarded with emails by one fellow who wants me to > take his offer for the item and cancel the auction. My reading of the Ebay > contract says this is not permissible. I didn't set a buy-right-now price. > I've told this fellow that I feel ethically constrained to let the auction > run it's course but he won't give up. Any words of wisdom from you more > experienced Ebay sellers? As an ebay buyer, I find that unethical. I admire your principles--too few of those nowadays. While a loose interpretation of the rules allows sellers to cancel auctions due to "prior sale," and a lot of people use this as an excuse to sell items early, that is not what that means. It is not fair to the other bidders, and you are selling yourself short because someone may have bid much more. Most serious bidders snipe in the last few seconds. After one or two rebuffs, you have every reason to rip him a new one and report him to ebay. I would warn him first. Also, you might want to ban him from bidding on your auctions, because what he might do is win the item, then leave you bad feedback as revenge. It happens. There are some real sickies on ebay. good luck, Don From efkern at earthlink.net Thu Aug 3 11:27:31 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Thu Aug 3 11:27:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com><000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder><7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com><001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder><7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000901c6b72a$7c88fe20$73f8f604@TheBlackAdder> Nope, they are part of the fixture, and do not fit in the 2X4 ceiling grid. There'd be no point in putting a translucent panel IN the ceiling grid, because there's no light above the ceiling is there? I'm going to Lowes in a few minutes and will check ours in Murrieta, southern Calif. I haven't been happy with it compared to the Home Depot 2 miles from Lowes. The only reason I go to Lowes is for the great hot dog stand out in front which is not run by Lowes. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Balmer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:32:55 -0400, Drew wrote: >Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, but >couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new fixture, but not >replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while down in >Asheville. > You may be asking for the wrong thing. These are not part of a fixture, but panels which go into a drop ceiling. You'd probably find them in the ceiling department, not lighting. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 11:37:17 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Aug 3 11:37:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> References: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> Message-ID: Thanks Don, I thought I was doing the right thing but didn't want to be mule-headed about it if I was wrong. BK On 8/3/06, DonH wrote: > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > I'm selling my first item on Ebay, a camera lens. I know a lot of you > sell > > stuff there. I'm being bombarded with emails by one fellow who wants me > to > > take his offer for the item and cancel the auction. My reading of the > Ebay > > contract says this is not permissible. I didn't set a buy-right-now > price. > > I've told this fellow that I feel ethically constrained to let the > auction > > run it's course but he won't give up. Any words of wisdom from you more > > experienced Ebay sellers? > > > As an ebay buyer, I find that unethical. I admire your principles--too > few of those nowadays. While a loose interpretation of the rules allows > sellers to cancel auctions due to "prior sale," and a lot of people use > this as an excuse to sell items early, that is not what that means. It > is not fair to the other bidders, and you are selling yourself short > because someone may have bid much more. Most serious bidders snipe in > the last few seconds. > > After one or two rebuffs, you have every reason to rip him a new one and > report him to ebay. I would warn him first. Also, you might want to > ban him from bidding on your auctions, because what he might do is win > the item, then leave you bad feedback as revenge. It happens. There > are some real sickies on ebay. > > good luck, > Don > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 11:40:33 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Aug 3 11:40:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <000901c6b72a$7c88fe20$73f8f604@TheBlackAdder> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> <001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> <000901c6b72a$7c88fe20$73f8f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: Actually a lot of drop ceilings do have light fixtures above the grid and they make holders which hold these plastic sheets in the grid. BK On 8/3/06, Erich Kern wrote: > > > > Nope, they are part of the fixture, and do not fit in the 2X4 ceiling > grid. There'd be no point > in putting a translucent panel IN the ceiling grid, because there's no > light above the ceiling > is there? > > I'm going to Lowes in a few minutes and will check ours in Murrieta, > southern Calif. I haven't > been happy with it compared to the Home Depot 2 miles from Lowes. The only > reason I go to Lowes > is for the great hot dog stand out in front which is not run by Lowes. > > Erich > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Balmer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 7:56 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox > > > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:32:55 -0400, Drew wrote: > > >Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, but > >couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new fixture, but > not > >replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while down > in > >Asheville. > > > You may be asking for the wrong thing. These are not part of a > fixture, but panels which go into a drop ceiling. You'd probably find > them in the ceiling department, not lighting. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Thu Aug 3 12:21:04 2006 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Thu Aug 3 12:21:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608030802h69b8b403paf7578168b312c96@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008f01c6b732$00108bd0$c745450a@KayDesk> http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=18427-1638-PTC 25/1A0000&lpage=none http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=18425-1638-CC2 5/1405005&lpage=none Suggest that the incompetent lazy a@@ get of his a** and look in their catalog. Even if they don't stock it they can order it in. I am busy and only wasted 3 minutes on a search at the lowes site, I will leave you the pleasure of looking further if you wish. I am sure they have other types / colors of suspended ceiling diffusers available. Kay -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Drew Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 11:03 AM To: alremovebalmerthis@att.net; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox Al, That may be the case, I will check again (although I never turn down an opportunity to rant about Lowe's!). Drew On 8/3/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:32:55 -0400, Drew wrote: > > >Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, > >but couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new > >fixture, but > not > >replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while > >down > in > >Asheville. > > > You may be asking for the wrong thing. These are not part of a > fixture, but panels which go into a drop ceiling. You'd probably find > them in the ceiling department, not lighting. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 12:35:22 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Aug 3 12:35:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: References: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040608031235m1b4a61eajd284b194843ec66@mail.gmail.com> I agree with Don. I would be very mad if I found out that I didn't win an auction because the seller sold to someone off eBay. Another question, still off-topic, still about eBay. What is the general opinion on shipping and handling? I recently bought a small ruby (under 200 ct) and a small lot of ruby/sapphire in 2 different auctions. I contacted the seller to get them shipped together ($4.25 per item) and maybe get a cut. The seller never responded, after 10 days went by I contacted them again and still no answer. The seller then opened a dispute, saying that I hadn't paid. I contacted them a 3rd time, this time they gave me a total, $7.25 shipping on 5 oz of rocks... seemed steep to me, but I paid it anyway. When I received the item, it was packaged in a Priority envelope, just a baggie of sapphire/ruby and a small ziplock with the single ruby in it. I left neutral feedback for them, because I wanted to warn others that the seller didn't combine shipping well. Now I have 2 negative feedbacks from the seller. Was I wrong? Thanks and sorry for the OT, Drew On 8/3/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Thanks Don, I thought I was doing the right thing but didn't want to be > mule-headed about it if I was wrong. > > BK > > On 8/3/06, DonH wrote: > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > I'm selling my first item on Ebay, a camera lens. I know a lot of you > > sell > > > stuff there. I'm being bombarded with emails by one fellow who wants > me > > to > > > take his offer for the item and cancel the auction. My reading of the > > Ebay > > > contract says this is not permissible. I didn't set a buy-right-now > > price. > > > I've told this fellow that I feel ethically constrained to let the > > auction > > > run it's course but he won't give up. Any words of wisdom from you > more > > > experienced Ebay sellers? > > > > > > As an ebay buyer, I find that unethical. I admire your principles--too > > few of those nowadays. While a loose interpretation of the rules allows > > sellers to cancel auctions due to "prior sale," and a lot of people use > > this as an excuse to sell items early, that is not what that means. It > > is not fair to the other bidders, and you are selling yourself short > > because someone may have bid much more. Most serious bidders snipe in > > the last few seconds. > > > > After one or two rebuffs, you have every reason to rip him a new one and > > report him to ebay. I would warn him first. Also, you might want to > > ban him from bidding on your auctions, because what he might do is win > > the item, then leave you bad feedback as revenge. It happens. There > > are some real sickies on ebay. > > > > good luck, > > Don > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 12:39:49 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Aug 3 12:39:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608031235m1b4a61eajd284b194843ec66@mail.gmail.com> References: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> <7aac8040608031235m1b4a61eajd284b194843ec66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Sounds like this feedback system doesn't work too well when dealing with jacka##es. BK On 8/3/06, Drew wrote: > > I agree with Don. I would be very mad if I found out that I didn't win an > auction because the seller sold to someone off eBay. > > Another question, still off-topic, still about eBay. What is the general > opinion on shipping and handling? I recently bought a small ruby (under > 200 > ct) and a small lot of ruby/sapphire in 2 different auctions. I contacted > the seller to get them shipped together ($4.25 per item) and maybe get a > cut. The seller never responded, after 10 days went by I contacted them > again and still no answer. The seller then opened a dispute, saying that > I > hadn't paid. I contacted them a 3rd time, this time they gave me a total, > $7.25 shipping on 5 oz of rocks... seemed steep to me, but I paid it > anyway. When I received the item, it was packaged in a Priority envelope, > just a baggie of sapphire/ruby and a small ziplock with the single ruby in > it. > > I left neutral feedback for them, because I wanted to warn others that the > seller didn't combine shipping well. Now I have 2 negative feedbacks from > the seller. > > Was I wrong? > > Thanks and sorry for the OT, > Drew > > On 8/3/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > Thanks Don, I thought I was doing the right thing but didn't want to be > > mule-headed about it if I was wrong. > > > > BK > > > > On 8/3/06, DonH wrote: > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > > > I'm selling my first item on Ebay, a camera lens. I know a lot of > you > > > sell > > > > stuff there. I'm being bombarded with emails by one fellow who wants > > me > > > to > > > > take his offer for the item and cancel the auction. My reading of > the > > > Ebay > > > > contract says this is not permissible. I didn't set a buy-right-now > > > price. > > > > I've told this fellow that I feel ethically constrained to let the > > > auction > > > > run it's course but he won't give up. Any words of wisdom from you > > more > > > > experienced Ebay sellers? > > > > > > > > > As an ebay buyer, I find that unethical. I admire your > principles--too > > > few of those nowadays. While a loose interpretation of the rules > allows > > > sellers to cancel auctions due to "prior sale," and a lot of people > use > > > this as an excuse to sell items early, that is not what that > means. It > > > is not fair to the other bidders, and you are selling yourself short > > > because someone may have bid much more. Most serious bidders snipe in > > > the last few seconds. > > > > > > After one or two rebuffs, you have every reason to rip him a new one > and > > > report him to ebay. I would warn him first. Also, you might want to > > > ban him from bidding on your auctions, because what he might do is win > > > the item, then leave you bad feedback as revenge. It happens. There > > > are some real sickies on ebay. > > > > > > good luck, > > > Don > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Thu Aug 3 12:47:57 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Aug 3 12:48:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <000901c6b72a$7c88fe20$73f8f604@TheBlackAdder> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com><000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder><7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com><001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder><7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> <000901c6b72a$7c88fe20$73f8f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 11:27:31 -0700, "Erich Kern" wrote: > > >Nope, they are part of the fixture, and do not fit in the 2X4 ceiling grid. There'd be no point >in putting a translucent panel IN the ceiling grid, because there's no light above the ceiling >is there? Then, you're talking about something else entirely. Whatever you're talking about, Drew probably doesn't want. The ones we're talking about *do* go in the ceiling grid for a dropped ceiling, and typically a separate light is hung above it. Yes, there *is* a light above the ceiling. > >I'm going to Lowes in a few minutes and will check ours in Murrieta, southern Calif. I haven't >been happy with it compared to the Home Depot 2 miles from Lowes. The only reason I go to Lowes >is for the great hot dog stand out in front which is not run by Lowes. > >Erich > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Al Balmer" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 7:56 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox > > >On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:32:55 -0400, Drew wrote: > >>Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, but >>couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new fixture, but not >>replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while down in >>Asheville. >> >You may be asking for the wrong thing. These are not part of a >fixture, but panels which go into a drop ceiling. You'd probably find >them in the ceiling department, not lighting. > >-- >Al Balmer >Sun City, AZ > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 3 12:49:17 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 3 12:48:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: References: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44D2533D.2020308@verizon.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Thanks Don, I thought I was doing the right thing but didn't want to be > mule-headed about it if I was wrong. This will be my last post because of the OT nature, but as a successful ebay buyer for 8 years I will gladly entertain discussions and questions off-list. As a matter of perspective, some people honestly believe there is nothing wrong with that; BUT in most cases I would suspect the eager buyer knows it will go for a lot more and is trying to offer a fair, but much lower price than you would get in the end. Someone who is persistent is usually up to no good and there are ways to deal with that person through official ebay methods. Once or twice I've been planning to bid and suddenly the auction ends early; when asked, the seller admits they sold it to a buyer in an off-ebay transaction (again, quoting rules out of context to justify this). There's nothing I can do except tell them they lost a lot of money, because I was willing to bid $xxx for it. I will end by saying that, as an ebay buyer since nearly Day 1 and a friend of many other serious buyers and sellers, I can tell you that your honesty and ethics will pay off in the end. A lot of us communicate; ebay is not anonymous and does not take place in a vacuum, and for every buyer community, I'd bet a lot of them keep in touch as well (in your case, cameras). I mostly buy microscopes and their parts on ebay, and I know at least two sleazy amateur sellers who don't get a lot of bids on their parts, and are probably scratching their heads wondering why, but I know they've lost the trust and respect of the serious scope community. Good luck, Don From albalmer at att.net Thu Aug 3 12:51:48 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Aug 3 12:51:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digest In-Reply-To: <005101c6b723$37470f20$0200a8c0@warren> References: <03701458-D8F0-4A97-8C00-029A796C199D@cox.net><7aac8040608030920j17b48596x9d972a384bc5bea@mail.gmail.com> <005101c6b723$37470f20$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:35:21 -0700, "Julie Siebel" wrote: >Teresa: > >All you do is click On on the Set Digest Mode section and then click Submit >My Changes at the bottom of the page. That will set your account to digest >mode, and you'll only receive one or two Rockhounds e-mails per day. > I've never understood the attraction of a digest mode. My emails are filtered so that anything with [Rockhounds] in the subject goes into one folder which I can read every five minutes, or every five days, my choice. >Julie > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Teresa Masters" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 9:57 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Digest > > >> Drew, >> Thank you, yes I see it, but could not figure out how to utilize it. >> Waiting for admin, >> thanks >> Terrie >> -- -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From efkern at earthlink.net Thu Aug 3 12:53:43 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Thu Aug 3 12:53:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox References: <008f01c6b732$00108bd0$c745450a@KayDesk> Message-ID: <001a01c6b736$875a31f0$00fdf604@TheBlackAdder> Drew, I agree with Kay, especially after visiting the local Lowes 30 minutes ago. The dumb*** you spoke to was either lazy or incompetant. The diffusers are in the rear of the store, and ours stocks eight different types. The type called "cracked ice, white" is probably the best one for your application. They're $2.92 each. Cheers, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Davis" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 12:21 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=18427-1638-PTC 25/1A0000&lpage=none http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=18425-1638-CC2 5/1405005&lpage=none Suggest that the incompetent lazy a@@ get of his a** and look in their catalog. Even if they don't stock it they can order it in. I am busy and only wasted 3 minutes on a search at the lowes site, I will leave you the pleasure of looking further if you wish. I am sure they have other types / colors of suspended ceiling diffusers available. Kay -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Drew Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 11:03 AM To: alremovebalmerthis@att.net; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox Al, That may be the case, I will check again (although I never turn down an opportunity to rant about Lowe's!). Drew On 8/3/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:32:55 -0400, Drew wrote: > > >Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, > >but couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new > >fixture, but > not > >replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while > >down > in > >Asheville. > > > You may be asking for the wrong thing. These are not part of a > fixture, but panels which go into a drop ceiling. You'd probably find > them in the ceiling department, not lighting. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Thu Aug 3 12:53:37 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Aug 3 12:53:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 14:07:19 -0400, "J Bryan Kramer" wrote: >I'm selling my first item on Ebay, a camera lens. I know a lot of you sell >stuff there. I'm being bombarded with emails by one fellow who wants me to >take his offer for the item and cancel the auction. My reading of the Ebay >contract says this is not permissible. I didn't set a buy-right-now price. >I've told this fellow that I feel ethically constrained to let the auction >run it's course but he won't give up. Any words of wisdom from you more >experienced Ebay sellers? > Easy. Get a real mail client, then set a filter to reject his messages. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 3 13:02:25 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 3 13:01:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <001a01c6b736$875a31f0$00fdf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <008f01c6b732$00108bd0$c745450a@KayDesk> <001a01c6b736$875a31f0$00fdf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <44D25651.8050404@verizon.net> Erich Kern wrote: > Drew, > > I agree with Kay, especially after visiting the local Lowes 30 minutes ago. The dumb*** you > spoke to was either lazy or incompetant. The diffusers are in the rear of the store, and ours > stocks eight different types. The type called "cracked ice, white" is probably the best one for > your application. They're $2.92 each. Yeah not to drag this out, but both Home Depot and Lowes should stock them, they are often near the ceiling tiles and recessed ceiling light fixtures. If you blink you'd miss them, depending on how they are stacked and displayed. But they should be there. However they are difficult to cut, and I like using cheap white bedsheets as diffusers--cheap, because they are usually thinner. Diffuse Don From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 13:51:49 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Aug 3 13:51:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digest In-Reply-To: References: <03701458-D8F0-4A97-8C00-029A796C199D@cox.net> <7aac8040608030920j17b48596x9d972a384bc5bea@mail.gmail.com> <005101c6b723$37470f20$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <7aac8040608031351j133363efu9cd7a681da948f7d@mail.gmail.com> Of course, to each their own... but I am the same, I have done the digest before, but found that I do not keep up with the conversations as well while in digest. Drew On 8/3/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:35:21 -0700, "Julie Siebel" > wrote: > > >Teresa: > > > >All you do is click On on the Set Digest Mode section and then click > Submit > >My Changes at the bottom of the page. That will set your account to > digest > >mode, and you'll only receive one or two Rockhounds e-mails per day. > > > I've never understood the attraction of a digest mode. My emails are > filtered so that anything with [Rockhounds] in the subject goes into > one folder which I can read every five minutes, or every five days, my > choice. > > >Julie > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Teresa Masters" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > >Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 9:57 AM > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Digest > > > > > >> Drew, > >> Thank you, yes I see it, but could not figure out how to utilize it. > >> Waiting for admin, > >> thanks > >> Terrie > >> -- > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Aug 3 13:54:09 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Aug 3 13:54:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <44D25651.8050404@verizon.net> References: <008f01c6b732$00108bd0$c745450a@KayDesk> <001a01c6b736$875a31f0$00fdf604@TheBlackAdder> <44D25651.8050404@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040608031354k454556bfsc8a00dff78dc18e8@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for all the replies. I'll probably just stop by Home Depot this weekend and see what they have, Lowe's is starting to get on my last nerve! Drew On 8/3/06, DonH wrote: > > Erich Kern wrote: > > Drew, > > > > I agree with Kay, especially after visiting the local Lowes 30 minutes > ago. The dumb*** you > > spoke to was either lazy or incompetant. The diffusers are in the rear > of the store, and ours > > stocks eight different types. The type called "cracked ice, white" is > probably the best one for > > your application. They're $2.92 each. > > Yeah not to drag this out, but both Home Depot and Lowes should stock > them, they are often near the ceiling tiles and recessed ceiling light > fixtures. If you blink you'd miss them, depending on how they are > stacked and displayed. But they should be there. > > However they are difficult to cut, and I like using cheap white > bedsheets as diffusers--cheap, because they are usually thinner. > > Diffuse Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Aug 3 14:04:40 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Aug 3 14:03:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kitty & Bill Message-ID: Dear list members, It saddens me to inform you that we had to let Kitty and Bill Heacox go... on their way to Switzerland ;-))) On their trip through Europe they stopped in Antwerp, Belgium to briefly light up our lives. It was an immense pleasure to have met them and both my wife and I hope that life will grant us the privilege to see them again some day. Here is a short report of their stay in Belgium as seen by us: I went to pick Kitty and Bill up in the train station on Tuesday afternoon. It was the first time that I saw them (aside from some pictures that Kitty posted of them on the volcano) and my FBI-cap served well as point of recognition, although it drew some weird looks from people passing by ;-))) After being settled in the hotel, we went to my place were some Belgian beers were consumed after looking at my collection of fluorescent minerals. We decided to have a small taste of the old city so my wife Christel and I took our new friends to a small and very cozy restaurant in the old city. The place is called "The 11th commandment". It's located in one of those 16th century houses and it is decorated with literally hundreds of statuettes of saints, Madonna's, angels and what have you. Yes Earl, that restaurant ;-))) Kitty surprised my wife by giving her a box full of ballpoint pens which she collects. Exotic ones like we had never seen... I had no idea that there were so many really weird pens being produced on this planet... She also had a box with her with samples of iridescent lava to distribute about the members of our club. Thank you guys! Kitty and Bill insisted on buying us dinner (under the faint pretense that I helped them with transportation and train tickets so we let them ;-))) Wednesday they went to Bruges. I'm sure their own report of the voyage will cover this. Thursday we went for a stroll in the city of Antwerp and a light lunch which was blessed by the weather-gods with a dry and quite sunny interlude of say 2 hours between torrential rains and thunderstorms. We have been baking in the sun for six weeks and suddenly the temperature drop by 15 degrees centigrade and floods of biblical proportions march across the country from literally the minute your guests arrive... We quite enjoyed ourselves and exchanged views on more than a few matters. In the afternoon we returned to my place where I cooked Kitty and Bill a meal in pure Axel-style. This means an off the top of my head completely wacko concoction of ingredients. While I was cooking, Bill regularly checked on me to see if I was a) not just pretending to cook b) respecting the laws of thermo-dynamics Meanwhile the ambiance was being tended to by "composers with long hair" such as Gade, Bach, Vivaldi, Alb?niz, which demonstrated that we have similar taste in food AND music ;-))) At the end of the evening, Bill gave us an entertaining and quite interesting speech with PowerPoint slides on the history of astronomical observatories on Mauna Loa. We had a very enjoyable encounter of the best kind with two fantastic people and we were sad to say goodbye. It's a good thing that we have them on our list! Words always fall short in describing what you feel while meeting people of whom you know that they live in far off places and that you may not see again in years. I hope they get home safe after a rewarding voyage. Aloha Axel Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 3 14:07:56 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 3 14:07:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbide chisels: a recommendation Message-ID: <44D265AC.2070508@verizon.net> Hi all, Recently someone recommended Trow & Holden in Vermont. I've had a point-tipped carbide chisel for years, but I have a need for more, so I bought an edge-tipped chisel from T&W. Well, part of the tip shattered the first day I used it. I called T&W and sent it back. A few days later a fellow called me back and asked me how I was using it, then proceeded to lecture me on what I must have been doing wrong, etc. I was quite taken aback but in the end, he re-ground the edge for free, making a much steeper shoulder that should hold up better when splitting basalts. Where do you get service like that any more? These guys are great. If the price of a free repair is a stern lecture from a vendor, I'll take it. Don From albalmer at att.net Thu Aug 3 15:50:39 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Aug 3 15:50:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbide chisels: a recommendation In-Reply-To: <44D265AC.2070508@verizon.net> References: <44D265AC.2070508@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7bv4d29hskkb7hsq86jniaqdigdt4taujs@4ax.com> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 14:07:56 -0700, DonH wrote: > >Hi all, > >Recently someone recommended Trow & Holden in Vermont. I've had a >point-tipped carbide chisel for years, but I have a need for more, so I >bought an edge-tipped chisel from T&W. Well, part of the tip shattered >the first day I used it. I called T&W and sent it back. A few days >later a fellow called me back and asked me how I was using it, then >proceeded to lecture me on what I must have been doing wrong, etc. I >was quite taken aback but in the end, he re-ground the edge for free, >making a much steeper shoulder that should hold up better when splitting >basalts. > >Where do you get service like that any more? These guys are great. If >the price of a free repair is a stern lecture from a vendor, I'll take it. > Good. Did he have recommendations on usage? -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From gene at fossilnut.com Thu Aug 3 16:01:51 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Thu Aug 3 16:02:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question References: Message-ID: <028501c6b750$d338a790$6400a8c0@hppav> Ethically I think you are comitted to proceed with the auction, particularly if there are already bids on the item. >From a practical viewpoint, why would you withdraw? Presumably this person wants to ensure he gets the item, and he can do so by putting in the highest bid. You might suggest he place that bid on your item and perhaps he will get it for less. As another point I usually look at a couple of weeks of auctions on items like mine to see what they ought to be worth before I put them up. This helps me set a minimum, or buy it now point. People who are that persistent, particularly when you have tried to explain that you are trying to be fair to all, are usually trouble. Good Luck. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 2:07 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question > I'm selling my first item on Ebay, a camera lens. I know a lot of you sell > stuff there. I'm being bombarded with emails by one fellow who wants me to > take his offer for the item and cancel the auction. My reading of the Ebay > contract says this is not permissible. I didn't set a buy-right-now price. > I've told this fellow that I feel ethically constrained to let the auction > run it's course but he won't give up. Any words of wisdom from you more > experienced Ebay sellers? > > BK > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 3 16:08:13 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 3 16:07:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbide chisels: a recommendation In-Reply-To: <7bv4d29hskkb7hsq86jniaqdigdt4taujs@4ax.com> References: <44D265AC.2070508@verizon.net> <7bv4d29hskkb7hsq86jniaqdigdt4taujs@4ax.com> Message-ID: <44D281DD.6050906@verizon.net> Al Balmer wrote: > Good. Did he have recommendations on usage? The point chisel is more useful for breaking up rough rock; the blade chisels are for when you have a flat surface to work on. But no matter what chisel you're using, you need to press the carbide against the rock firmly. The entire surface of the tip must be placed against rock, and in my case, it sounds like part of the blade was resting on a rough spot and part of it had a little airspace underneath. Once you are convinced the chisel is firmly placed, you give a firm tap to "set" the chisel into the rock. Then you can bang harder, but not too hard. I guess carbide is somewhat like diamond; very resistant to abrasion, but brittle. He also said the smaller chisels should be used with no more than a 2 lb. hammer and my 3 lb. crack hammer was putting too much force on it. In truth I was whaling away like that hammer was a little sledge. Apparently these chisels were designed to be used gently but firmly. I would note that they don't come with detailed instructions; perhaps they assume, wrongly, that all customers know what they're doing with these. Oh, I forgot, if you want one of these for cracking rough rock, you can call T&W and they will custom-cut a carbide blade that has a much steeper angle, rather than the longer, thinner carbide tip that comes by default. It still has a sharp edge, but it is more of a wide wedge than a long blade. Oh, I also noticed he rounded the corners for me, probably so they don't catch on a little protrusion of rock, since you could tell by the shatter pattern that is what happened the last time. When used correctly, they do slice through some pretty tough rock. My point chisel has a few nicks in the carbide but otherwise it looks almost new. I would recommend new users start with the point chisel. There are pictures of all these on their website, and if you call them and tell them what you're trying to do, they will recommend the right tool. Don From gene at fossilnut.com Thu Aug 3 16:20:28 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Thu Aug 3 16:20:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question References: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> <7aac8040608031235m1b4a61eajd284b194843ec66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <029a01c6b753$6e0333b0$6400a8c0@hppav> I'm not sure you were wrong, but perhaps you could be more selective about choosing your battles. I have reserved negative feedback for times when I have not only been abused, but suffered significant cost penalty. Unfortunately, negative or neutral feedback will engender negative feedback. Experienced sellers often will wait to send feedback, even though the buyer has satisfied all his obligations by paying. In such cases the seller gets the last word and punishes negative feedback. This is why I am very wary of buying anything from a seller who has more than a fraction of a percent negative feedback. I figure that is just asking for trouble. I have had several cases where there is a problem with the e-mail relay to his home e-mail and the seller never looked in e-bay for his messages. The result was the seller never got my note, or got it days late. This is particularly true with PayPal payments. Sellers are entitled to shipping AND handling costs, which includes a reasonable charge for supplies, and for their time in wrapping the item and shipping it. Some sellers use a professional shipping service which includes some fees. I'm not saying this was the case in your case as a simple envelope with two auctions in it does not sound like a lot of effort. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question >I agree with Don. I would be very mad if I found out that I didn't win an > auction because the seller sold to someone off eBay. > > Another question, still off-topic, still about eBay. What is the general > opinion on shipping and handling? I recently bought a small ruby (under > 200 > ct) and a small lot of ruby/sapphire in 2 different auctions. I contacted > the seller to get them shipped together ($4.25 per item) and maybe get a > cut. The seller never responded, after 10 days went by I contacted them > again and still no answer. The seller then opened a dispute, saying that > I > hadn't paid. I contacted them a 3rd time, this time they gave me a total, > $7.25 shipping on 5 oz of rocks... seemed steep to me, but I paid it > anyway. When I received the item, it was packaged in a Priority envelope, > just a baggie of sapphire/ruby and a small ziplock with the single ruby in > it. > > I left neutral feedback for them, because I wanted to warn others that the > seller didn't combine shipping well. Now I have 2 negative feedbacks from > the seller. > > Was I wrong? > > Thanks and sorry for the OT, > Drew > > On 8/3/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> >> Thanks Don, I thought I was doing the right thing but didn't want to be >> mule-headed about it if I was wrong. >> >> BK >> >> On 8/3/06, DonH wrote: >> > >> > J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> > >> > > I'm selling my first item on Ebay, a camera lens. I know a lot of you >> > sell >> > > stuff there. I'm being bombarded with emails by one fellow who wants >> me >> > to >> > > take his offer for the item and cancel the auction. My reading of the >> > Ebay >> > > contract says this is not permissible. I didn't set a buy-right-now >> > price. >> > > I've told this fellow that I feel ethically constrained to let the >> > auction >> > > run it's course but he won't give up. Any words of wisdom from you >> more >> > > experienced Ebay sellers? >> > >> > >> > As an ebay buyer, I find that unethical. I admire your principles--too >> > few of those nowadays. While a loose interpretation of the rules >> > allows >> > sellers to cancel auctions due to "prior sale," and a lot of people use >> > this as an excuse to sell items early, that is not what that means. It >> > is not fair to the other bidders, and you are selling yourself short >> > because someone may have bid much more. Most serious bidders snipe in >> > the last few seconds. >> > >> > After one or two rebuffs, you have every reason to rip him a new one >> > and >> > report him to ebay. I would warn him first. Also, you might want to >> > ban him from bidding on your auctions, because what he might do is win >> > the item, then leave you bad feedback as revenge. It happens. There >> > are some real sickies on ebay. >> > >> > good luck, >> > Don >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From gene at fossilnut.com Thu Aug 3 16:29:13 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Thu Aug 3 16:29:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbide chisels: a recommendation References: <44D265AC.2070508@verizon.net> Message-ID: <02f401c6b754$a71cdba0$6400a8c0@hppav> I buy fossil prep tools from Paleo Tools. One chisel tip for a scribe boke at the base of the shaft. I called, got polite treatment with no lectures, & had a new tip in 3 days. They asked me only to return the broken one when I got time so they could understand if there was a fabrication problem" Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 5:07 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] carbide chisels: a recommendation > > Hi all, > > Recently someone recommended Trow & Holden in Vermont. I've had a > point-tipped carbide chisel for years, but I have a need for more, so I > bought an edge-tipped chisel from T&W. Well, part of the tip shattered > the first day I used it. I called T&W and sent it back. A few days later > a fellow called me back and asked me how I was using it, then proceeded to > lecture me on what I must have been doing wrong, etc. I was quite taken > aback but in the end, he re-ground the edge for free, making a much > steeper shoulder that should hold up better when splitting basalts. > > Where do you get service like that any more? These guys are great. If > the price of a free repair is a stern lecture from a vendor, I'll take it. > > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Aug 3 17:40:25 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Aug 3 17:40:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question References: Message-ID: <005401c6b75e$956d3990$6501a8c0@CMC3101861A> Report him to eBay. He can be barred for doing that. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 1:07 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question > I'm selling my first item on Ebay, a camera lens. I know a lot of you sell > stuff there. I'm being bombarded with emails by one fellow who wants me to > take his offer for the item and cancel the auction. My reading of the Ebay > contract says this is not permissible. I didn't set a buy-right-now price. > I've told this fellow that I feel ethically constrained to let the auction > run it's course but he won't give up. Any words of wisdom from you more > experienced Ebay sellers? > > BK > From efkern at earthlink.net Thu Aug 3 20:50:01 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Thu Aug 3 20:49:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question References: <005401c6b75e$956d3990$6501a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <001201c6b779$10e81990$c0fef604@TheBlackAdder> My wife, Laurie does a fair amount of business on Ebay, so I told her about this pest. She said just ignore his emails. If you see one from him, delete without opening. And, JB is acting ethically by letting the auction run its course. Off-Ebay deals are no-go. Perhaps the pest does this sort of thing as a challenge to see if he can persuade someone to break the rules of the game, and has no intention of purchasing the lens. Cheers, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question Report him to eBay. He can be barred for doing that. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 1:07 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question > I'm selling my first item on Ebay, a camera lens. I know a lot of you sell > stuff there. I'm being bombarded with emails by one fellow who wants me to > take his offer for the item and cancel the auction. My reading of the Ebay > contract says this is not permissible. I didn't set a buy-right-now price. > I've told this fellow that I feel ethically constrained to let the auction > run it's course but he won't give up. Any words of wisdom from you more > experienced Ebay sellers? > > BK > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From samkarl at optonline.net Thu Aug 3 20:50:00 2006 From: samkarl at optonline.net (Samkarl) Date: Thu Aug 3 20:50:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: <005401c6b75e$956d3990$6501a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <005b01c6b779$12a559f0$0300a8c0@hardhead> Not to get too far OT, but I would love to tell the group there are two other potential options: 1) If you can open a dialogue with the seller, you can agree to "mutually withdraw" your feedbacks together simultaneously. The text of the feedback will still appear, but the +1 or -1 (or in the case of the neutral, the 0) will no longer be counted, and the feedback percentage will no longer be affected. In your case the seller may not have much incentive to pursue this option with you, since his neutral does not negatively affect his feedback percentage, but it is certainly worth a try. A good tactic to take would be to say you would like to apologize for any misunderstandings related to your feedback, and see if there is some mutually agreeable solution you can come to that would satisfy both of you. Most people don't know about the withdrawl option, and so your seller may be willing to consider it. 2) If the seller is registered with SquareTrade (and possibly even if he isn't) you can register a feedback dispute with SquareTrade. SquareTrade is a related organization that helps mediate disputes of this nature. They may assign you a mediator or, if the seller does not respond, they may simply withdraw the feedback. I have not personally used this method, so I don't know all the ins and outs. Despite my constant desire to make the world a better place through transparency and honesty, I have found the moral of the eBay story is, 1) be careful who you're dealing with, and 2) if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it, unless you think it's worth the potential risk to your feedback rating (which it probably won't be unless you have hundreds or thousands of feedbacks!). -Samantha -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jeanette Wimpee Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 8:40 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question Report him to eBay. He can be barred for doing that. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 1:07 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question > I'm selling my first item on Ebay, a camera lens. I know a lot of you sell > stuff there. I'm being bombarded with emails by one fellow who wants me to > take his offer for the item and cancel the auction. My reading of the Ebay > contract says this is not permissible. I didn't set a buy-right-now price. > I've told this fellow that I feel ethically constrained to let the auction > run it's course but he won't give up. Any words of wisdom from you more > experienced Ebay sellers? > > BK > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Thu Aug 3 22:04:12 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Aug 3 22:05:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbide chisels: a recommendation In-Reply-To: <44D281DD.6050906@verizon.net> References: <44D265AC.2070508@verizon.net> <7bv4d29hskkb7hsq86jniaqdigdt4taujs@4ax.com> <44D281DD.6050906@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 16:08:13 -0700, DonH wrote: >Al Balmer wrote: > >> Good. Did he have recommendations on usage? > > >The point chisel is more useful for breaking up rough rock; the blade >chisels are for when you have a flat surface to work on. But no matter >what chisel you're using, you need to press the carbide against the rock >firmly. The entire surface of the tip must be placed against rock, and >in my case, it sounds like part of the blade was resting on a rough spot > and part of it had a little airspace underneath. Once you are >convinced the chisel is firmly placed, you give a firm tap to "set" the >chisel into the rock. Then you can bang harder, but not too hard. I >guess carbide is somewhat like diamond; very resistant to abrasion, but >brittle. He also said the smaller chisels should be used with no more >than a 2 lb. hammer and my 3 lb. crack hammer was putting too much force >on it. In truth I was whaling away like that hammer was a little >sledge. Apparently these chisels were designed to be used gently but >firmly. I would note that they don't come with detailed instructions; >perhaps they assume, wrongly, that all customers know what they're doing >with these. > Thanks, Don. Good information. I've been thinking about getting one of these chisels. They aren't cheap, and it's good to know how to use them effectively. You're right about carbide being brittle. A long time ago, I ran a prototype circuit board facility, and we used high-speed carbide drills to drill the fiberglass boards. They would drill thousand of holes, but if you looked at one sideways, it would break. >Oh, I forgot, if you want one of these for cracking rough rock, you can >call T&W and they will custom-cut a carbide blade that has a much >steeper angle, rather than the longer, thinner carbide tip that comes by >default. It still has a sharp edge, but it is more of a wide wedge than >a long blade. Oh, I also noticed he rounded the corners for me, >probably so they don't catch on a little protrusion of rock, since you >could tell by the shatter pattern that is what happened the last time. > >When used correctly, they do slice through some pretty tough rock. My >point chisel has a few nicks in the carbide but otherwise it looks >almost new. I would recommend new users start with the point chisel. >There are pictures of all these on their website, and if you call them >and tell them what you're trying to do, they will recommend the right tool. > > >Don -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Thu Aug 3 23:06:06 2006 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Thu Aug 3 23:06:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox Message-ID: Hi Drew, I'm a fairly new addition to this list (and an overly busy one, lately), but I've just read your postings and am wondering: are these lightboxes to be used for display, or photography? If the latter, I can recommend an outstanding option that won't cost you an arm and a leg, but will deliver excellent results. Let me know, okay? All the best, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com From volgems at icx.net Fri Aug 4 04:14:45 2006 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Fri Aug 4 04:14:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox Message-ID: <33111282.1154690085199.JavaMail.root@mswamui-andean.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Share the photo light box ideas with us, please! John Knoxville -----Original Message----- >From: Douglas Turet >Sent: Aug 4, 2006 2:06 AM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox > >Hi Drew, > > I'm a fairly new addition to this list (and an overly busy one, >lately), but I've just read your postings and am wondering: are these >lightboxes to be used for display, or photography? If the latter, I can >recommend an outstanding option that won't cost you an arm and a leg, but >will deliver excellent results. Let me know, okay? > > >All the best, >Doug > >Douglas Turet, GJ >Turet Design, LLC >P. O. Box 242 >Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. >Tel. (508) 586-5690 >Fax: (508) 586-5677 >Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Fri Aug 4 07:19:10 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Fri Aug 4 07:17:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Announcement: Three Weeks of Show-and-Tell at Tucson 2007 In-Reply-To: <44CF4D61.3070100@jeanniusdesigns.com> Message-ID: <32C2B32A-23C4-11DB-A799-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi All, All the commitments are firm; the size of the tent is known (twenty by 30 feet); the program is being filled in. So now it's time to tell the world about it - and it gives me great pleasure to do so. (How's that for a mysterious opening?) "It" is a unique new attraction for Tucson - the "Electric Park Learning Center", a twenty-by-thirty foot tent at the Electric Park Show entirely devoted to free, public, demonstrations and show-and-tell. For the full three weeks of Tucson, visitors will be able to watch lapidary, gem and jewelry techniques being demonstrated, hands-on, at the Electric Park Show. Manufacturers of tools and machines such as flex shafts and faceting machines may demonstrate as well and answer questions about their devices. The program is still developing. Most likely it'll be three approximately one-hour presentations each day. The new facility is a co-operative venture in which Electric Park exhibitors Alpha Supply, Diamond Pacific, The Graves Company, Kent's Tools, and Electric Park show promoter Al Sargent are all contributors and participants, and as far as I know it is unique and a first for Tucson. While other vendors certainly give demonstrations and instructional seminars, no other Tucson venue that I know of offers anything like the full-duration, day in day out, program of public instruction and demonstrations that will be available at the Electric Park show. So that's the general background. Now I'd like to ask for your assistance. News releases have gone out to the lapidary-gem-jewelry press. But not yet to individual clubs and smaller organizations. If you are a member of such, and would like the news release for publication in your club newsletter, do please email me offline. Likewise, if you have a presentation you'd consider giving at the Electric Park Learning Center, - or for that matter, a topic to suggest - email me your suggestions. While most of the presentations will be in the nature of "how-to" techniques, variety is the spice of life. Are you a gem and mineral photographer? How about giving a "how-to" talk? Or if you've been digging in some exotic gem and mineral locality, how about a slide show? Or if you're a carver, or a sphere maker, or an expert in mineral cleaning - how about showing the world how it's done? Thanks everybody. Do email me offline with suggestions and comments and addresses to whom I should send news releases. I'll certainly keep you updated as the schedule firms up and finalizes. See you at the Electric Park! Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada sinico@nbnet.nb.ca From mineral.maertens at att.net Fri Aug 4 14:51:04 2006 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan) Date: Fri Aug 4 14:51:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbide chisels: a recommendation Message-ID: <080420062151.18392.44D3C147000EB7EA000047D821603760219C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> Hi Don, where are you these days? I bought the pointed and flat comfort grip hand carbide tip chisels from T&H following a John Betts suggestion. These chisels are increadible in busting up limestone. The point chisels eats itself in the rock in no time. I run out of energy before the chisel does (if it ever does ...). The flat chisel though is too fat/wide to penetrate the rock. It starts OK, yet jams itself before splitting rock. I am trying to understand what and how T&H changed to your chisel. What is their recommendation for rock hound usage? I whack the chisels with an Estwing crack hammer and prefer a sledge if I could. The chisels are too wide for a standard hand protection. After a while I get soo tired that I start missing the head ... See URL: http://trowandholden.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=3783264.1324*F72Sp1&product=cat1 -- Johan Maertens From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Aug 4 15:28:23 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Aug 4 15:27:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbide chisels: a recommendation In-Reply-To: <080420062151.18392.44D3C147000EB7EA000047D821603760219C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> References: <080420062151.18392.44D3C147000EB7EA000047D821603760219C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> Message-ID: <44D3CA07.7030103@verizon.net> Johan wrote: > Hi Don, where are you these days? Belgian brother Johan! I've been in northern Idaho for the last year and 2 days... you've got too much heavy beer I think... > These chisels are increadible in busting up limestone. The point chisels eats itself in the rock in no time. I agree. Point chisels rule. > The flat chisel though is too fat/wide to penetrate the rock. It starts OK, yet jams itself before splitting rock. Indeed. I think these are for carving. Of course I don't believe in chisels jamming. I was determined to break that basalt--I broke the chisel instead. > I am trying to understand what and how T&H changed to your chisel. The new edge, side view: /\ / \ / \ The repaired edge, shorter with a wider angle that is better for splitting: ^ / \ > What is their recommendation for rock hound usage? They have bigger heftier chisels for breaking rock, but I really didn't get specific recommendations for new ones since I was only concerned with what I already own and fixing the broken one. It is best to call them and talk to one of the artistes who make these. > I whack the chisels with an Estwing crack hammer and prefer a sledge if I could. Sounds like a bad idea. I get the impression the hammer must be matched to the shape and size of the chisel. The ratio of carbide surface area to the width of the shaft matters; in the end, again, the points provide the most support. I notice at the bottom of the page is a fat carbide-pointed missile, and if I had it to do over again I would get one of those. Crack well! > See URL: http://trowandholden.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=3783264.1324*F72Sp1&product=cat1 From tim at orerockon.com Fri Aug 4 18:38:30 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Aug 4 18:39:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NFMS Labor Day Field Trip Prineville OR Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060804182741.0374d378@orerockon.com> Just a short note to remind everyone of the upcoming field trip that I am leading to the Ochoco Mtns & Prineville area sponsored by the Northwest Federation. We will be collecting thundereggs, tube, moss, and possibly plume agate, jasper, petrified wood, possibly limb casts, leaf fossils and ammonites, and other misc stuff lol. It all depends on what the group wants to do. The trip is from Friday 9/1 through Monday 9/4 but really anyone can come anytime, we will go back to the campground each day around 12-2 before heading to another site. I will be at the CG on Thursday evening (possibly very late lol). I am looking for volunteers to occupy sites anytime the week before Labor Day, so if you want to go early and hit up some spots before we plunder them, please help yourself! Just let some folks camp in your space in return :) The campground info can be found here (they are a small county park and are on a first come first served basis, so let that be a warning not to show up Friday after 5 PM!) They have a new ramp so bring your boat, the trout fishing can be good at times. http://www.prineville-crookcounty.org/parks/parks_ochoco.cfm Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From davisj at earthlink.net Sat Aug 5 09:04:51 2006 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Sat Aug 5 09:04:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NFMS Labor Day Field Trip Prineville OR In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060804182741.0374d378@orerockon.com> Message-ID: Hey Tim what sites are you going to visit From lanny at lrream.com Sat Aug 5 10:14:51 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Aug 5 10:15:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] carbide chisels: a recommendation In-Reply-To: <44D3CA07.7030103@verizon.net> References: <080420062151.18392.44D3C147000EB7EA000047D821603760219C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> <44D3CA07.7030103@verizon.net> Message-ID: <6c8326263fd08b25082d59821db0a142@lrream.com> Hi Don, Glad to hear you got that chisel fixed. You seem to have figured out the problem. T&H is of course specifically selling tools for the rock masonry and sculpturing trade. Tungsten carbide tipped chisels are kind of an enigma. They are harder than steel, and seem tougher, yet they are more brittle. In the rock masonry and sculpture business of breaking rock, smaller pieces of rock are broken off than what we tend to want to do collecting minerals, so as you have determined we have to be more careful and have a thicker cutting edge on a carbide chisel and/or use a smaller hammer than we are used to whacking a chisel with. It all gets down to knowing your tools and what they are designed for. I was saddened by the attitude of a poster on this forum several years ago in a discussion of chisels. He said that he bought the common cold chisel from Sears, and when it broke breaking rock he would take it back and demand a new one on their policy of replacing Craftsman tools if they broke. He insisted that he was right in doing this because the chisel didn't specifically say that it was for cutting metal. However, he was just ripping off Sears using our current societies popular belief that it's the other guys fault if I don't know what a tool is or how to use it. Cold chisels are made to cut metal, not something hard like rock. We should be responsible for learning what an item we buy is made for, not blaming the other guy. It's great that T&H took care of you. Let us know how the new edge on your chisel works. Since I lost the one I bought several years ago before really giving it a good test, I'm still curious about how well carbide will work for mineral collecting. I suspect they aren't worth the extra money, because even with a thicker edge, they will still dull too quickly on hard rock. Regards, Lanny On Aug 4, 2006, at 3:28 PM, DonH wrote: > Johan wrote: > >> Hi Don, where are you these days? > > Belgian brother Johan! I've been in northern Idaho for the last year > and 2 days... you've got too much heavy beer I think... > >> These chisels are increadible in busting up limestone. The point >> chisels eats itself in the rock in no time. > > I agree. Point chisels rule. > >> The flat chisel though is too fat/wide to penetrate the rock. It >> starts OK, yet jams itself before splitting rock. > > Indeed. I think these are for carving. Of course I don't believe in > chisels jamming. I was determined to break that basalt--I broke the > chisel instead. > >> I am trying to understand what and how T&H changed to your chisel. > > The new edge, side view: > > /\ > / \ > / \ > > The repaired edge, shorter with a wider angle that is better for > splitting: > > ^ > / \ > >> What is their recommendation for rock hound usage? > > They have bigger heftier chisels for breaking rock, but I really > didn't get specific recommendations for new ones since I was only > concerned with what I already own and fixing the broken one. It is > best to call them and talk to one of the artistes who make these. > >> I whack the chisels with an Estwing crack hammer and prefer a sledge >> if I could. > > Sounds like a bad idea. I get the impression the hammer must be > matched to the shape and size of the chisel. The ratio of carbide > surface area to the width of the shaft matters; in the end, again, > the points provide the most support. I notice at the bottom of the > page is a fat carbide-pointed missile, and if I had it to do over > again I would get one of those. > > Crack well! > > >> See URL: >> http://trowandholden.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi? >> cart_id=3783264.1324*F72Sp1&product=cat1 > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From tim at orerockon.com Sat Aug 5 11:32:40 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Aug 5 11:32:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NFMS Labor Day Field Trip Prineville OR In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060804182741.0374d378@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060805113138.0436b180@orerockon.com> Wherever the group wants to go; I have nothing planned. I will bring samples from everywhere within 50 miles or so. At 09:04 AM 8/5/2006, you wrote: >Hey Tim what sites are you going to visit Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Aug 5 13:02:43 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Aug 5 13:02:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608031235m1b4a61eajd284b194843ec66@mail.gmail.com> References: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> <7aac8040608031235m1b4a61eajd284b194843ec66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Drew, I had a similar problem with a seller. I bought 4 coins and left neutral feedback about one. I got 4 negatives from the jerk. I found out you can reply to feedback. In addition the jerk lost out on additional sales. He burned his bridges. Every so often I go to his list of items and add them to my "Watched list." Ebay shows a seller when something is being watched. After i sells I check his feedback. If he left negative feedback I contact the buyer and tel them they can reply. Sellers can charge anything they want for shipping and handling Some of them make their profit that way. . Grant On 8/3/06, Drew wrote:. > > I left neutral feedback for them, because I wanted to warn others that the > seller didn't combine shipping well. Now I have 2 negative feedbacks from > the seller. > > Was I wrong? > > Thanks and sorry for the OT, > Drew > > On 8/3/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > Thanks Don, I thought I was doing the right thing but didn't want to be > > mule-headed about it if I was wrong. > > > > BK > > > > On 8/3/06, DonH wrote: > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > > > I'm selling my first item on Ebay, a camera lens. I know a lot of you > > > sell > > > > stuff there. I'm being bombarded with emails by one fellow who wants > > me > > > to > > > > take his offer for the item and cancel the auction. My reading of the > > > Ebay > > > > contract says this is not permissible. I didn't set a buy-right-now > > > price. > > > > I've told this fellow that I feel ethically constrained to let the > > > auction > > > > run it's course but he won't give up. Any words of wisdom from you > > more > > > > experienced Ebay sellers? > > > > > > > > > As an ebay buyer, I find that unethical. I admire your principles--too > > > few of those nowadays. While a loose interpretation of the rules allows > > > sellers to cancel auctions due to "prior sale," and a lot of people use > > > this as an excuse to sell items early, that is not what that means. It > > > is not fair to the other bidders, and you are selling yourself short > > > because someone may have bid much more. Most serious bidders snipe in > > > the last few seconds. > > > > > > After one or two rebuffs, you have every reason to rip him a new one and > > > report him to ebay. I would warn him first. Also, you might want to > > > ban him from bidding on your auctions, because what he might do is win > > > the item, then leave you bad feedback as revenge. It happens. There > > > are some real sickies on ebay. > > > > > > good luck, > > > Don > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Aug 5 13:16:39 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Aug 5 13:16:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <000901c6b72a$7c88fe20$73f8f604@TheBlackAdder> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> <001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> <000901c6b72a$7c88fe20$73f8f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: I think it is called a "light box." Mine was built for my dining room. I think it is about 4 X 8 with 6 panels in it. Grant On 8/3/06, Erich Kern wrote: > > > Nope, they are part of the fixture, and do not fit in the 2X4 ceiling grid. There'd be no point > in putting a translucent panel IN the ceiling grid, because there's no light above the ceiling > is there? > > I'm going to Lowes in a few minutes and will check ours in Murrieta, southern Calif. I haven't > been happy with it compared to the Home Depot 2 miles from Lowes. The only reason I go to Lowes > is for the great hot dog stand out in front which is not run by Lowes. > > Erich > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Balmer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 7:56 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox > > > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:32:55 -0400, Drew wrote: > > >Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, but > >couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new fixture, but not > >replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while down in > >Asheville. > > > You may be asking for the wrong thing. These are not part of a > fixture, but panels which go into a drop ceiling. You'd probably find > them in the ceiling department, not lighting. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Aug 5 13:26:12 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Aug 5 13:26:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: References: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> <7aac8040608031235m1b4a61eajd284b194843ec66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well the price on the item I'm selling is already above the price this fellow was offering and the auction has 6 hours to run. So I'm getting my reward for being honest. BK On 8/5/06, Grant Johnston wrote: > > Drew, > I had a similar problem with a seller. I bought 4 coins and left > neutral feedback about one. I got 4 negatives from the jerk. I found > out you can reply to feedback. In addition the jerk lost out on > additional sales. He burned his bridges. Every so often I go to his > list of items and add them to my "Watched list." Ebay shows a seller > when something is being watched. After i sells I check his feedback. > If he left negative feedback I contact the buyer and tel them they can > reply. > > Sellers can charge anything they want for shipping and handling Some > of them make their profit that way. > . > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Aug 5 13:46:11 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Aug 5 13:45:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: References: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> <7aac8040608031235m1b4a61eajd284b194843ec66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44D50393.6080608@verizon.net> Grant Johnston wrote: > Sellers can charge anything they want for shipping and handling Some > of them make their profit that way. Since this is a different OT than the OT I said I was done responding to, I'll offer a quick response. Any questions, comments, concerns, please reply off-list. No, they really can't charge what they want, and ebay is cracking down on that. If the profit can't come from selling the item then there is no reason to sell the item. I've been ripped off on shipping a few times, but mostly a seller will disclose their full fee structure,or will answer when asked before the end of auction. Some sellers make these huge grandiose 10-page ads with 72-point type about who they are and nothing to do with the item and hide their "shipping, packing, handling, and contemplation fees" in 4-point type at the bottom where nobody reads. If a seller's ad indicates suspiciously high fees over and above the cost of shipping, you can report it to ebay; and if the seller tacked on additional fees after the sale you can report that too. Ebay is not so concerned with protecting you as they are with seller tricks to avoid paying ebay their fees. What is a valid fee is open to debate. Hobby seller John Doe with boxes and bubble wrap laying around has no reason to charge me more than the actual shipping charges, maybe rounded up a bit. Some sellers buy new official USPS Priority boxes, and of course they should pass that along. Business sellers who actually pay someone to be a shipper and have to buy lots of shipping materials have a reason to charge extra, but again, one should be suspicious of ridiculous fixed charges. I know exactly how much it costs to send an Ortholux frame, so if I see one for sale and "this is a heavy item, shipping will be $xxx" and it's way too high, I know they're full of crap and gouging. Once I bought two boxes of microscope consumables from an ebay dealer who had high fixed fees of 14.95, but the supplies were so cheap I didn't mind. So far, so good. However, I saw that PayPal charged me the full shipping for both, and when I asked about combined shipping he did not respond. It cost about 5.00 to send the box and it was an old box with newspaper packing. What a ripoff. I was going to leave neutral feedback but of course he didn't leave feedback first, so instead I wrote him and told him I was not pleased with his lack of communication and he wasn't getting good feedback from me. Will he change? Probably not, but at least I said something. Pathetic attempt at getting back on topic: take a look on ebay folks, and see if there any minerals you like! Good luck and buy smart, Don From efkern at earthlink.net Sat Aug 5 13:55:06 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sat Aug 5 13:55:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com><000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder><7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com><001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder><7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com><000901c6b72a$7c88fe20$73f8f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <000d01c6b8d1$95278a70$a1f8f604@TheBlackAdder> Grant, You're right, my mistake. Yes, we had a 'dropped ceiling' in the kitchen of our first house which had standard 2X4 ft. translucent panels in a wooden frame, behind which were surface mounted fluorescent fixtures. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox I think it is called a "light box." Mine was built for my dining room. I think it is about 4 X 8 with 6 panels in it. Grant On 8/3/06, Erich Kern wrote: > > > Nope, they are part of the fixture, and do not fit in the 2X4 ceiling grid. There'd be no > point > in putting a translucent panel IN the ceiling grid, because there's no light above the ceiling > is there? > > I'm going to Lowes in a few minutes and will check ours in Murrieta, southern Calif. I > haven't > been happy with it compared to the Home Depot 2 miles from Lowes. The only reason I go to > Lowes > is for the great hot dog stand out in front which is not run by Lowes. > > Erich > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Al Balmer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 7:56 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox > > > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:32:55 -0400, Drew wrote: > > >Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, but > >couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new fixture, but not > >replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while down in > >Asheville. > > > You may be asking for the wrong thing. These are not part of a > fixture, but panels which go into a drop ceiling. You'd probably find > them in the ceiling department, not lighting. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Sat Aug 5 22:45:51 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sat Aug 5 22:47:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: <44D50393.6080608@verizon.net> References: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> <7aac8040608031235m1b4a61eajd284b194843ec66@mail.gmail.com> <44D50393.6080608@verizon.net> Message-ID: <3e0bd21custt8aob590v8hdm8l2efa2j86@4ax.com> On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 13:46:11 -0700, DonH wrote: > Some sellers buy new >official USPS Priority boxes, and of course they should pass that along. Last I knew, USPS Priority boxes were free for the taking at the Post Office. You do have to buy the postage, unfortunately . -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From hammerron at yahoo.com Sun Aug 6 06:17:58 2006 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sun Aug 6 06:18:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Springfield, MA Show August 11, 12, and 13 Message-ID: <20060806131758.48294.qmail@web81412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The East Coast Gem, Mineral & Fossil Show will be comong up on August 11, 12, and 13. Below is some of the information regarding the show. It is among the largest of its kind in the northeast. I'm hoping to personally attend. If any list members are interested in meeting there to say hello, feel free to email me off list. August 11-12-13, 2006 West Springfield, MA East Coast Gem, Mineral & Fossil Show Friday 10am to 7pm Saturday 10am to 7pm Sunday 10am to 5pm at Better Living Center, Eastern States Exposition, 1305 Memorial Avenue, West Springfield, MA The largest show of its kind in the east. Contact: Martin Zinn Expositions, LLC, P.O. Box 665, Bernalillo, NM 87004 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Aug 6 11:00:59 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Aug 6 11:01:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: USPS BOXES was OT: Ebay question Message-ID: There is one box that is offered to USPS shippers for a set fee that you can fill with no weight restriction. The fee includes the box and postage. The size is about 6X9X9 inches. Glenn Wimpee > From: albalmer@att.net> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question> Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 22:45:51 -0700> > On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 13:46:11 -0700, DonH > wrote:> > > Some sellers buy new > >official USPS Priority boxes, and of course they should pass that along. > > Last I knew, USPS Priority boxes were free for the taking at the Post> Office.> > You do have to buy the postage, unfortunately .> > -- > Al Balmer> Sun City, AZ> > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html Express yourself instantly with Windows Live Messenger! Windows Live Messenger! _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care about in one place. http://www.live.com/getstarted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From therebelcountry at gmail.com Sun Aug 6 11:08:50 2006 From: therebelcountry at gmail.com (Kevin Winter) Date: Sun Aug 6 11:08:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: USPS BOXES was OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8/6/06, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > There is one box that is offered to USPS shippers for a set fee that you can fill with no weight restriction. The fee includes the box and postage. The size is about 6X9X9 inches. Thats not entirely accurate. If you look here: http://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductCategoryDisplay?catalogId=10152&storeId=10001&categoryId=13359&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=11820&top_category=11820 You'll find you can order any number of boxes, to be shipped to you, all for free, no cost to the potential shipper. If you use these boxes as is, they have a flat rate fee that MUST be paid (can't use these boxes and then ship first class, only priority). But the fee isn't exactly in the postage fee. For instance, it is indeed possible to turn these boxes inside out, making it no longer an official flate rate priority shipping box. Then you are no longer bound by the flat rate fee, or even USPS. ~Kevin -- Open Source, Open Mind From albalmer at att.net Sun Aug 6 11:17:07 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sun Aug 6 11:18:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: USPS BOXES was OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 13:00:59 -0500, "Glenn Wimpee" wrote: > > > > >There is one box that is offered to USPS shippers for a set fee that you can fill with no weight restriction. The fee includes the box and postage. The size is about 6X9X9 inches. >Glenn Wimpee Actually, I think there are two such no-weigh deals, one box and one letter package. However, even for regular Priority Mail by weight, you can get several sizes of free box. > >> From: albalmer@att.net> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question> Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 22:45:51 -0700> > On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 13:46:11 -0700, DonH > wrote:> > > Some sellers buy new > >official USPS Priority boxes, and of course they should pass that along. > > Last I knew, USPS Priority boxes were free for the taking at the Post> Office.> > You do have to buy the postage, unfortunately .> > -- > Al Balmer> Sun City, AZ> > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >Express yourself instantly with Windows Live Messenger! Windows Live Messenger! >_________________________________________________________________ >Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care about in one place. >http://www.live.com/getstarted > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Aug 6 11:34:58 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Aug 6 11:35:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: USPS BOXES was OT: Ebay question References: Message-ID: <001a01c6b987$05efe850$e0faf604@TheBlackAdder> Kevin's right, and I would add, that this is a great deal for us rockhounds shipping mineral specimens. I've used the 11"X 8.5"X 5.5" Flat Rate box to ship 9 lbs of specimens for $8.10 plus 50 cents for a delivery confirmation if you want one. What a deal!! Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Winter" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] FW: USPS BOXES was OT: Ebay question On 8/6/06, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > There is one box that is offered to USPS shippers for a set fee that you can fill with no > weight restriction. The fee includes the box and postage. The size is about 6X9X9 inches. Thats not entirely accurate. If you look here: http://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductCategoryDisplay?catalogId=10152&storeId=10001&categoryId=13359&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=11820&top_category=11820 You'll find you can order any number of boxes, to be shipped to you, all for free, no cost to the potential shipper. If you use these boxes as is, they have a flat rate fee that MUST be paid (can't use these boxes and then ship first class, only priority). But the fee isn't exactly in the postage fee. For instance, it is indeed possible to turn these boxes inside out, making it no longer an official flate rate priority shipping box. Then you are no longer bound by the flat rate fee, or even USPS. ~Kevin -- Open Source, Open Mind -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From therebelcountry at gmail.com Sun Aug 6 11:39:34 2006 From: therebelcountry at gmail.com (Kevin Winter) Date: Sun Aug 6 11:39:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: USPS BOXES was OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: <001a01c6b987$05efe850$e0faf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <001a01c6b987$05efe850$e0faf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: On 8/6/06, Erich Kern wrote: > Kevin's right, and I would add, that this is a great deal for us rockhounds shipping mineral > specimens. I've used the 11"X 8.5"X 5.5" Flat Rate box to ship 9 lbs of specimens for $8.10 plus > 50 cents for a delivery confirmation if you want one. What a deal!! Even better - delivery confirmation is now free (but not signature confirmation). At least, it was when i used paypal/ebay to print my shipping label, so maybe its a deal through that? Certainly a good deal no matter how you look at it. Good for receiving replacement DC motors as well :) ~Kevin -- Open Source, Open Mind From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sun Aug 6 12:41:55 2006 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 6 12:42:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: USPS BOXES was OT: Ebay question Message-ID: <380.9773a3e.3207a003@aol.com> In a message dated 8/6/2006 2:09:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, therebelcountry@gmail.com writes: For instance, it is indeed possible to turn these boxes inside out, making it no longer an official flate rate priority shipping box. Then you are no longer bound by the flat rate fee, or even USPS. Actually..they have the inside imprinted with what the box id for on the inside of some of their boxes, so that is not always true. Also, on the flat rate boxes...I ahve used these before and covered over the "fllat rate" markings and just used regular Priotiry postage by weight..and have not had problems. Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Aug 6 13:43:29 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Aug 6 13:43:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USPS BOXES References: <380.9773a3e.3207a003@aol.com> Message-ID: <00f401c6b998$f95f0780$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I have been told by the clerks at the post office that priority and first class are the same when it comes to boxes. So if you have to ship rocks, it is six of one, a half-dozen of another. (There, at least I mention "rocks" in my Rockhounds posting!!!) Alan Also, on the flat rate > boxes...I ahve used these before and covered over the "fllat rate" > markings > and just used regular Priotiry postage by weight..and have not had > problems. > > Jeff From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Aug 6 13:54:05 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Aug 6 13:54:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USPS BOXES References: <380.9773a3e.3207a003@aol.com> <00f401c6b998$f95f0780$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <000901c6b99a$75503250$97fff604@TheBlackAdder> Yeah but.... The Priority Flat Rate box goes for $8.10 regardless of weight, whereas the standard Priority Mail box has postage charges determined by how much it weighs. The P.M. Flat Rate envelope goes for $4.05 regardless of whether you have one sheet of paper or stuff it with five magazines as I have done. I was in line behind a lady who used a Priority Mail box but wanted to send it first class or parcel post, and was told no, that the post office supplies free PM boxes so you'll pay for "free" boxes by using that service. Makes sense. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] USPS BOXES I have been told by the clerks at the post office that priority and first class are the same when it comes to boxes. So if you have to ship rocks, it is six of one, a half-dozen of another. (There, at least I mention "rocks" in my Rockhounds posting!!!) Alan Also, on the flat rate > boxes...I ahve used these before and covered over the "fllat rate" > markings > and just used regular Priotiry postage by weight..and have not had > problems. > > Jeff -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Lapidry at aol.com Sun Aug 6 13:56:32 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 6 13:56:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: USPS BOXES was OT: Ebay question Message-ID: If you go online to the USPS website to print your shipping label and pay the postage online, you get delivery confirmation and package tracking for free. That's because the label contains the necessary bar codes for automatic tracking. I've always been squirmy about paying $8.10 and hoping the printer doesn't have a problem. Dan In a message dated 8/6/2006 2:39:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, therebelcountry@gmail.com writes: > Kevin's right, and I would add, that this is a great deal for us rockhounds shipping mineral > specimens. I've used the 11"X 8.5"X 5.5" Flat Rate box to ship 9 lbs of specimens for $8.10 plus > 50 cents for a delivery confirmation if you want one. What a deal!! Even better - delivery confirmation is now free (but not signature confirmation). At least, it was when i used paypal/ebay to print my shipping label, so maybe its a deal through that? Certainly a good deal no matter how you look at it. Good for receiving replacement DC motors as well :) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Sun Aug 6 14:54:19 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Sun Aug 6 14:54:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: USPS BOXES was OT: Ebay question References: Message-ID: <001001c6b9a2$e0199010$6400a8c0@hppav> Actually there are 2 and the measurements are more like 11x 8.5 x 5.5 for one and 11-7/8 x 13-5/8 x 3-3/8 for the other. I pack a few of these when I go to Tucson since they're great for heavier items and you're unlikely to find any available in Tucson for that time period. Here is the link. http://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductCategoryDisplay?catalogId=10152&storeId=10001&categoryId=13359&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=11820&top_category=11820 Of course the priority mail boxes are not actually free, the fee is just included in the postage. (It is illegal to use the boxes the first time for something other than priority mail) Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 2:00 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: USPS BOXES was OT: Ebay question There is one box that is offered to USPS shippers for a set fee that you can fill with no weight restriction. The fee includes the box and postage. The size is about 6X9X9 inches. Glenn Wimpee > From: albalmer@att.net> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: > [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question> Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 22:45:51 -0700> > On > Sat, 05 Aug 2006 13:46:11 -0700, DonH > wrote:> > > > Some sellers buy new > >official USPS Priority boxes, and of course > they should pass that along. > > Last I knew, USPS Priority boxes were > free for the taking at the Post> Office.> > You do have to buy the > postage, unfortunately .> > -- > Al Balmer> Sun City, AZ> > -- > > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle > Mailing List> Subscription Services:> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page:> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html Express yourself instantly with Windows Live Messenger! Windows Live Messenger! _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care about in one place. http://www.live.com/getstarted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocknlight at aol.com Sun Aug 6 17:43:02 2006 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 6 17:43:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: PRIORITY BOXES ETC 100 % FREE - Ebay question In-Reply-To: <3e0bd21custt8aob590v8hdm8l2efa2j86@4ax.com> References: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> <7aac8040608031235m1b4a61eajd284b194843ec66@mail.gmail.com> <44D50393.6080608@verizon.net> <3e0bd21custt8aob590v8hdm8l2efa2j86@4ax.com> Message-ID: <8C887D192BA3862-1098-6E28@mblk-r13.sysops.aol.com> All PRIORITY boxes and envelopes are 100 % FREE - The Post office will even mail them to you for FREE They pay for the shipping of up to 50 plus boxes whatever you feel you need ALL FREE - No need to ever visit the posy office or get in your car just call and order or do it on line all for FREE - -----Original Message----- From: albalmer@att.net To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 13:46:11 -0700, DonH wrote: > Some sellers buy new >official USPS Priority boxes, and of course they should pass that along. Last I knew, USPS Priority boxes were free for the taking at the Post Office. You do have to buy the postage, unfortunately . -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknlight at aol.com Sun Aug 6 17:48:13 2006 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 6 17:48:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: 100 % ALL FREE PRIORITY Ebay question In-Reply-To: <3e0bd21custt8aob590v8hdm8l2efa2j86@4ax.com> References: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> <7aac8040608031235m1b4a61eajd284b194843ec66@mail.gmail.com> <44D50393.6080608@verizon.net> <3e0bd21custt8aob590v8hdm8l2efa2j86@4ax.com> Message-ID: <8C887D24BFC2D37-1098-6E5A@mblk-r13.sysops.aol.com> All boxes and envelopes are 100 % FREE Free shipping too !!! Of all priority boxes to you home -- The postal service will ship up to 25 plus ++ boxes and envelopes etc etc etc etc ALL FREE - SHIPPED DIRECTLY TO YOUR HOME Just call them or order online all for free !!!!! -----Original Message----- From: albalmer@att.net To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 10:45 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 13:46:11 -0700, DonH wrote: > Some sellers buy new >official USPS Priority boxes, and of course they should pass that along. Last I knew, USPS Priority boxes were free for the taking at the Post Office. You do have to buy the postage, unfortunately . -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Gslrocks at aol.com Sun Aug 6 18:06:44 2006 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 6 18:06:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: 100 % ALL FREE PRIORITY Ebay question Message-ID: <491.6ddfb17.3207ec24@aol.com> priority boxes, labels, customs forms ( 2 types under 50.00 and over 50.00 declared value), insurance forms, signature confirmation, priority mail tape, Global priority boxes and envelopes are all free from the post office! The flat rate boxes for priority and global priority are great for shipping specimens in as they will take up to 70 lbs for priority flate rate in one box for $8.10 where regular priority mail would cost $127.05 and parcel post would cost $45.89! Using flat rate you save 119.00 priority and 37.00 parcel post!!!!!!!!!!!!! Greg Lesinski gslrocks --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Aug 6 18:16:01 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Aug 6 18:16:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: 100 % ALL FREE PRIORITY Ebay question In-Reply-To: <491.6ddfb17.3207ec24@aol.com> References: <491.6ddfb17.3207ec24@aol.com> Message-ID: And if they only made the slots at the post office big enough to take the boxes. I just came back from trying to shoehorn one in. So you have to go to the post office anyway. I interupted an urban outdoorsman who was digging thru the trash can there, looking for credit card offers I suppose. BK On 8/6/06, Gslrocks@aol.com wrote: > > priority boxes, labels, customs forms ( 2 types under 50.00 and over 50.00 > declared value), insurance forms, signature confirmation, priority mail > tape, > Global priority boxes and envelopes are all free from the post office! The > flat rate boxes for priority and global priority are great for shipping > specimens in as they will take up to 70 lbs for priority flate rate in > one box for > $8.10 where regular priority mail would cost $127.05 and parcel post would > cost $45.89! Using flat rate you save 119.00 priority and 37.00 parcel > post!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Greg Lesinski > gslrocks > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Gslrocks at aol.com Sun Aug 6 18:39:30 2006 From: Gslrocks at aol.com (Gslrocks@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 6 18:39:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: 100 % ALL FREE PRIORITY Ebay question Message-ID: <532.4bc2ddc.3207f3d2@aol.com> you can pay postage online and also arrange for pickup at home if you ship items regularly or even one time batches! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sun Aug 6 19:56:39 2006 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 6 19:56:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USPS BOXES Message-ID: Anything over 13 ounces in 1st Class is automatically priority mail... Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Sun Aug 6 20:13:23 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Sun Aug 6 20:13:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: 100 % ALL FREE PRIORITY Ebay question References: <44D23DEA.4060600@verizon.net> <7aac8040608031235m1b4a61eajd284b194843ec66@mail.gmail.com> <44D50393.6080608@verizon.net><3e0bd21custt8aob590v8hdm8l2efa2j86@4ax.com> <8C887D24BFC2D37-1098-6E5A@mblk-r13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <009f01c6b9cf$727a3be0$6400a8c0@hppav> Not exactly free. You get them at no charge, but they may only be used for Priority mail. You can get tape too. I keep a stock of various sizes for when I feel in the mood to sell some things on E-Bay. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 8:48 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: 100 % ALL FREE PRIORITY Ebay question > All boxes and envelopes are 100 % FREE > > Free shipping too !!! Of all priority boxes to you home -- The postal > service will ship up to 25 plus ++ boxes and envelopes etc etc etc etc > ALL FREE - SHIPPED DIRECTLY TO YOUR HOME > > Just call them or order online all for free !!!!! > > -----Original Message----- > From: albalmer@att.net > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 10:45 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Ebay question > > > On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 13:46:11 -0700, DonH > wrote: > >> Some sellers buy new >>official USPS Priority boxes, and of course they should pass that along. > > Last I knew, USPS Priority boxes were free for the taking at the Post > Office. > > You do have to buy the postage, unfortunately . > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and > IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Aug 6 21:32:23 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Aug 6 21:31:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: glass and AlO2 blasting beads for specimen prep, 3 lbs., 90 micron In-Reply-To: <491.6ddfb17.3207ec24@aol.com> References: <491.6ddfb17.3207ec24@aol.com> Message-ID: <44D6C257.2010002@verizon.net> Hi all, For those who blast rocks & fossils, I've got 3 lbs. of 90 micron glass beads I don't need. The total for 3 lbs. is 2.00, plus actual shipping charges. Please contact me off-list; first respondent gets it. Same exact deal for 3 lbs. of 90 m aluminium oxide powder. If someone happens to want only 1 or 2 lbs., of one or the other, I'll put your name on a list and geet back to you if the whole lot doesn't sell. Best, Don From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Aug 6 22:18:09 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Aug 6 22:18:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question on bead blasters Message-ID: <004a01c6b9e0$dfc9e040$effef604@TheBlackAdder> Does anyone have an opinion on the BB100 Bottle Blaster unit? Either positive or negative? Erich Kern --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Sun Aug 6 22:24:29 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sun Aug 6 22:25:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: USPS BOXES was OT: Ebay question In-Reply-To: <001001c6b9a2$e0199010$6400a8c0@hppav> References: <001001c6b9a2$e0199010$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Aug 2006 17:54:19 -0400, "EUGENE HARTSTEIN" wrote: > >Actually there are 2 and the measurements are more like 11x 8.5 x 5.5 for >one and 11-7/8 x 13-5/8 x 3-3/8 for the other. I pack a few of these when I >go to Tucson since they're great for heavier items and you're unlikely to >find any available in Tucson for that time period. Here is the link. > >http://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductCategoryDisplay?catalogId=10152&storeId=10001&categoryId=13359&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=11820&top_category=11820 > >Of course the priority mail boxes are not actually free, the fee is just >included in the postage. (It is illegal to use the boxes the first time for >something other than priority mail) > Maybe not free, but included in the overhead, not the postage. They don't give you a discount for using your own box :-) -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From tim at orerockon.com Sun Aug 6 22:34:48 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Aug 6 22:34:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question on bead blasters In-Reply-To: <004a01c6b9e0$dfc9e040$effef604@TheBlackAdder> References: <004a01c6b9e0$dfc9e040$effef604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060806223240.04354e58@orerockon.com> YGWYPF. Expect to pay $100+ for a decent sandblaster, and $700 or more for one to do really fine work aka fossil crabs. Alpha Supply has a good general purpose blaster for around $110. At 10:18 PM 8/6/2006, you wrote: Does anyone have an opinion on the BB100 Bottle Blaster unit? Either positive or negative? Erich Kern Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. nospam@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 6 22:49:34 2006 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun Aug 6 22:49:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: 100 % ALL FREE PRIORITY Dead Horse Floggers! In-Reply-To: <009f01c6b9cf$727a3be0$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: <20060807054934.21478.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> Love you Guys and Gals but it is clear by the board traffic that it was too hot to do any rockhounding this weekend throughout most of the known world. To break this trend I am offering---100% ALL FREE Dead-Horse Floggers and Priority Shipping Provided with prepaid, self addressed , flat folded USPS "owned" box. (NO used boxes ,please, as it is a criminal violation of postal regulations to re-use USPS Priority shipping materials or to convert them to use for a purpose not otherwise intended). With our Rockdust and mud encrusted Dead Horse Flogger from the finest willow switches in our compost bin, you can keep beating that deceased equine! Each flogger hand made here in our back yard. Each randomly selected, knee bent lengths ready to be repeatedly hand snapped. Get that frustration purged when your delete key is worn out. (Due to postal regulations, we send the dry willow branch and ready to mix Tennessee Red Clay not less than Ordovician-age. All you add is water, frustration and cuss word incantations so you can slick that sucker right up) We'll also send you our Long Past Dead Resurected (LPDR) Thread Snippers. Order before midnight yesterday and we'll include download instructions for our LPDR cyber thread nipper-- Just the thing for "Off Topic" Threads that linger only to sprout new off topic threads! Instructions included with every 5th package. Please let us know your choice of language( Pigdon or Swahili) Get (Over) it today! EMan From therebelcountry at gmail.com Sun Aug 6 22:53:05 2006 From: therebelcountry at gmail.com (Kevin Winter) Date: Sun Aug 6 22:53:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: 100 % ALL FREE PRIORITY Dead Horse Floggers! In-Reply-To: <20060807054934.21478.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> References: <009f01c6b9cf$727a3be0$6400a8c0@hppav> <20060807054934.21478.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 8/7/06, Mr EMan wrote: > Instructions included with every 5th package. Please > let us know your choice of language( Pigdon or > Swahili) As long as we're being sarcastic, it's spelled "Pigdin". -- Open Source, Open Mind From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Aug 6 23:08:23 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Aug 6 23:07:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: glass and AlO2 blasting beads for specimen prep, 3 lbs., 90 micron SOLD In-Reply-To: <44D6C257.2010002@verizon.net> References: <491.6ddfb17.3207ec24@aol.com> <44D6C257.2010002@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44D6D8D7.2010704@verizon.net> Sorry all; stuff is sold. Thanks for the interest; now I can buy some more rice noodles and soy yogurt. Since I have 10 gallstones and it seems I need my *!&@%$ gallbladder out, it's time for a change in diet! DonH wrote: > > Hi all, > > For those who blast rocks & fossils, I've got 3 lbs. of 90 micron glass > beads I don't need. The total for 3 lbs. is 2.00, plus actual shipping > charges. Please contact me off-list; first respondent gets it. > From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Aug 6 23:18:06 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Aug 6 23:16:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] review of Ameritool 4-5" trim saw In-Reply-To: <44D6C257.2010002@verizon.net> References: <491.6ddfb17.3207ec24@aol.com> <44D6C257.2010002@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44D6DB1E.3010507@verizon.net> After shopping for bargains, I bought an Ameritool 4" trim saw with optional vise assembly. You can see it here: http://www.ameritool-inc.com/store/category.cfm?Category=5 There were a few cheaper ones, but I liked the profile of the unit, the vari-speed motor, the all-plastic molded body and integrated coolant well. At the next higher price level, the benefits didn't seem worth it and I'm on a tight budget. The smooth molded body is durable and easy to clean, but I wouldn't beat it hard. Same with the removable plastic saw table and blade guard. If you are cutting smooth slabs, no problem, but since I am cutting rough rock, I have put some scratches in the table already. I plan to cut a table overlay from aluminium sheet. The coolant well holds plenty of liquid--I use water with an additive. There is a removable splash guard but water still gets everywhere, so I plan to build some shielding around it with thick plastic sheet on a wooden frame. Right now I use it outside, drawing curious looks. It is a quiet motor. The motor is smooth and has enough power to drive a blade pretty quickly through compact basalt. However, the included 4" notched blade itself was not up to par. After only three chunks of basalt, exposing the nutritious feldspars inside, the blade RIPPED. I've seen blades dish, dent, and glaze, but never rip like paper; but I've never used 4" either and, as with the carbide chisels I suppose, I was probably taxing the system. Anyway, I wrote to the dealer and asked about more robust blades and also I had noticed there was room for a 5" blade, was that OK? He replied quickly and suggested some nice 5" blades. However the suggested blade was out of stock, and Kingsley North was out of them too, so instead I bought some 5" full rim Raytech Yellow Blazer Diamond Blades because I needed to get my samples cut soon. The 5" blades worked much better, even though these blades were really too thin for what I was cutting. However, even when I pushed them hard, making 4 fast cuts each on 8 basalt chunks, the blade never stalled, jammed, or chattered. This begs the question why they don't call it a 4-5" saw and point out the benefits of the 5" option. The optional moving vise table is pretty good; you need to lube the rail, and it moves smoothly. However the vise grip unit unit is very simplistic and takes a few minutes to get the piece set up, and if you need to make multiple cuts on the same piece and therefore keep moving the rock, it would be annoying. However the clever buyer could easily adapt a more versatile vise to fit into the sliding platform. Since I cut a lot of glass rings for making probe mounts, I am going to make a jig to hold glass tubes. Cleanup is nice. I take it in the shower with me, being careful to avoid putting water under pressure on the bushings where the power knob and shaft go into the plastic. Then I dry it, wipe the metal parts with WD40, and apply a little oil to the metal parts. All ready to go again. So then, I got what I paid for, and I am happy now that I am used to it. It is light, quiet, and smooth, with good power and variable speed, and easy to clean. As always, you need to match the blade with your material. You will get wet unless you build your own extra shielding around the unit. The vise could use some better design, and the saw table needs protection, but both of these factors can be addressed by the handy user. I would recommend it for flat slabs, thick ones are fine, and tough rock is no problem if you have the necessary blade. For rough chunks, I would tend to recommend small chunks, and if you don't have a steady hand, you might want to fabricate a rock holder to supplement the sliding vise table, or else fuss and fiddle with the optional vise unit as it comes out of the box. Not a bad buy overall. Good luck, Don From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 6 23:36:46 2006 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun Aug 6 23:36:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: 100 % ALL FREE PRIORITY Dead Horse Floggers! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060807063646.10754.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> Thankyou for that feedback. I'll test drive a flogger on my spell checker for not being here to catch that. Some of us didn't have the benefit of multi-room schools growing up in the Smokies. So how many floggers "may" I put you down...for? I can give you a volume discount. EMan --- Kevin Winter wrote: > On 8/7/06, Mr EMan wrote: > > Instructions included with every 5th package. > Please > > let us know your choice of language( Pigdon or > > Swahili) > > As long as we're being sarcastic, it's spelled > "Pigdin". > > -- > Open Source, Open Mind > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Aug 7 05:25:49 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Aug 7 05:25:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox In-Reply-To: <000d01c6b8d1$95278a70$a1f8f604@TheBlackAdder> References: <7aac8040608011607u2ed58572v4b5d5b5835f6ddd5@mail.gmail.com> <000c01c6b676$52bfde60$6dfef604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608021510o150a2296y82f3e4c67a3b5310@mail.gmail.com> <001701c6b6b9$4f78a730$1ff9f604@TheBlackAdder> <7aac8040608030432o52270834hb35322cfb3bfaf3c@mail.gmail.com> <000901c6b72a$7c88fe20$73f8f604@TheBlackAdder> <000d01c6b8d1$95278a70$a1f8f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <7aac8040608070525l54412143kfd33da1041b75a01@mail.gmail.com> I never made it to Home Depot this weekend, there was too much to look at in Spruce Pine and there was too much digging to be done in the area. We went to Walker Creek kyanite locality yesterday, I didn't find much real blue stuff, but found some decent stuff that can be cabbed. I may have found 1 peice that may yield a small faceted stone. I'll take a look at lunch today and see what I can find at the local hardware store (in the town where I work, not where I live). Thanks, Drew On 8/5/06, Erich Kern wrote: > > > Grant, > > You're right, my mistake. Yes, we had a 'dropped ceiling' in the kitchen > of our first house > which had standard 2X4 ft. translucent panels in a wooden frame, behind > which were surface > mounted fluorescent fixtures. > > Erich > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Grant Johnston" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 1:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox > > > I think it is called a "light box." Mine was built for my dining room. > I think it is about 4 X 8 with 6 panels in it. > > Grant > > On 8/3/06, Erich Kern wrote: > > > > > > Nope, they are part of the fixture, and do not fit in the 2X4 ceiling > grid. There'd be no > > point > > in putting a translucent panel IN the ceiling grid, because there's no > light above the ceiling > > is there? > > > > I'm going to Lowes in a few minutes and will check ours in Murrieta, > southern Calif. I > > haven't > > been happy with it compared to the Home Depot 2 miles from Lowes. The > only reason I go to > > Lowes > > is for the great hot dog stand out in front which is not run by Lowes. > > > > Erich > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Al Balmer" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 7:56 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Translucent plexi for lightbox > > > > > > On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:32:55 -0400, Drew wrote: > > > > >Thanks for all the replies... I checked at my local Lowe's Hardware, > but > > >couldn't find any. They will allow you to buy a whole new fixture, but > not > > >replacement diffusers. I will check Home Depot this weekend while down > in > > >Asheville. > > > > > You may be asking for the wrong thing. These are not part of a > > fixture, but panels which go into a drop ceiling. You'd probably find > > them in the ceiling department, not lighting. > > > > -- > > Al Balmer > > Sun City, AZ > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknlight at aol.com Mon Aug 7 11:18:28 2006 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 7 11:18:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds]Cutting MINERAL OIL - Stats - Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060721062126.046847e8@orerockon.com> References: <2e3.a659f9b.31f20b7a@aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060721062126.046847e8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <8C8886503BACA4B-1090-11C5@mblk-r13.sysops.aol.com> All petroleum based cutting oils are TOXIC - Never use any oil other than 100 % food grade mineral oil for cutting rocks - Although it too is petroleum based, it is like comparing thick blackstrap molasses sugar, pella etc - versus white sugar dissolved in water, being mineral oil etc... Mineral oil is just purer and cleaner The natural organic rocks we cut from our mother earth and the people who eventually come into contact with them, by touching the rocks, wearing the rocks, breathing the rock cutting oil vapors, deserve to have the least toxic and cleanest cutting oil available - Sure the toxic pella type oils are not biodegradable, in the sense that their consistency and smelliness and toxicity and cutting FLUIDITY will last a VERY long time. But fluidity time is not worth polluting our bodies and our planet earth ... IF and that is a BIG IF ! Food grade Mineral oil does in fact, statistically "gum up," within a certain time period, probably after 1,000 + hours of cutting in an 18" saw . Boo Hoo :( - Then simply purchase new mineral oil and keep on cutting - If you REALLY TRUTHFULLY can't afford to buy mineral new oil, when it supposedly gums up, then try to budget for it in other ways - Charge a few pennies more for cutting per sq. inch - or for your slabbed materials - Collect aluminum cans and plastic bottles - cut a few coupons during the year, have a garage sale, etc -- Mineral oil washes off easily, has little to NO SMELL at all and is the least toxic of any petroleum oil. Mineral Oil much kinder on rocks, people and our planet . Good Luck RnL -----Original Message----- From: tim@orerockon.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw Vegetable oil will definitely create a varnish and turn to goo in a rock saw. Mineral oil will not. That said, it is not the best coolant, as has been discussed on this list ad nauseum. I stick with oils manufactured for use as coolants. Using mineral oil over the long term is harder on all the components of your saw than using cutting or machine lubricants. At 03:50 AM 7/21/2006, you wrote: > >In a message dated 7/21/2006 12:00:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >kadok@infowest.com writes: > >Mineral oil also has the reputation (well-deserved) of gumming up your saw >blade after awhile. > >Margaret > > > >I've been using it for ages in several saws due to a wife who can't stand >the smell of Pella or Almag. I haven't had one bit of gumming up on >the blade. >The rock does a wonderful job of keeping the blade clean. Not like a regular >saw cutting sappy pine, I have had to clean resin off router and saw blades >many times. > >What does happen though is the rock dust, after a while, quite's settling >out and the oil itself gets to about the consistency of pudding. You >don't see >that with Almag or Pella. I don't know that I'm changing the oil any sooner >though. To be honest, I never kept track based on total usage. You >can recover >some of the oil from the pudding by filtering it through paper sacks and it >is about the same consistency as the original oil, just amber colored. > >Dan Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Aug 7 11:42:05 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Aug 7 11:41:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Rockhounds? References: Message-ID: <000a01c6ba51$2ec27110$5a941b4b@LarryRush> I have been reading quite a bit about the Chinese economy lately. It is astounding what that country is doing with all aspects of it's economy, truly becoming one of the world's powerhouses of business. BUT, it also amazes me that we hear virtually nothing about individual Chinese mineral collectors. With their vast mineral resources, and with literally tons of mineral specimens being exported, there are few, if any Chinese personal mineral websites. We have no members on the Rockhounds list (although there used to be a Taiwanese member), or any other list that I am aware of, and one never hears of shows on the mainland. What goes on here? Is this because of government policy, or a language problem? There are certainly many affluent Chinese individuals who are scoffing up art, and other collectibles and language doesn't seem to get in the way of their other business interests!. People there are buying up TV's, cell phones, DVDs, autos, almost anything! And their science is first-rate, including geology and physics. I have seen Chinese buyers at some of the major shows, but one gets the feeling that these people are selling in the US or Europe, not on the mainland, and not buying for their personal use. Does anyone have a feel for the state of the hobby in China today, excluding the sellers of exportable minerals? And what is the market for selling imported minerals to China today? Is there one? How does one explain the seeming lack of interest from this vast population? Even the Malaysians and Indonesians appear to be more interested in collectible minerals than the Chinese. Just very curious; I'd appreciate any thoughts or comments.... Larry Rush From albalmer at att.net Mon Aug 7 11:50:41 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Aug 7 11:50:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds]Cutting MINERAL OIL - Stats - Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <8C8886503BACA4B-1090-11C5@mblk-r13.sysops.aol.com> References: <2e3.a659f9b.31f20b7a@aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060721062126.046847e8@orerockon.com> <8C8886503BACA4B-1090-11C5@mblk-r13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 14:18:28 -0400, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: >All petroleum based cutting oils are TOXIC - > >Never use any oil other than 100 % food grade mineral oil for cutting rocks So-called "food grade" mineral oil is TOXIC. If you don't believe me, just try drinking a pint of it. > - Although it too is petroleum based, it is like comparing thick blackstrap molasses sugar, pella etc - versus white sugar dissolved in water, being mineral oil etc... Mineral oil is just purer and cleaner > >The natural organic rocks Rocks are not organic. They are inorganic. >we cut from our mother earth and the people who eventually come into contact with them, by touching the rocks, wearing the rocks, breathing the rock cutting oil vapors, deserve to have the least toxic and cleanest cutting oil available - I clean my rocks before giving them to anyone. > >Sure the toxic pella type oils are not biodegradable, Nonsense. They are already as bio-degraded as you can get. Once you biodegrade organic matter to oil, there's no further to go. >in the sense that their consistency and smelliness and toxicity and cutting FLUIDITY will last a VERY long time. What does that have to do with biodegrading? > >But fluidity time is not worth polluting our bodies and our planet earth ... You mean the earth the oil came from? > >IF and that is a BIG IF ! Food grade Mineral oil does in fact, statistically "gum up," You didn't even understand what Tim wrote. He said *vegetable* oils will gum up. And it's not "statistically", either. Do you know what that word means? Sorry if I offend you, but we've had just about enough of uninformed scaremongers here. The few of us who are not adults are surely working under parental supervision. >within a certain time period, probably after 1,000 + hours of cutting in an 18" saw . Boo Hoo :( - >Then simply purchase new mineral oil and keep on cutting - > >If you REALLY TRUTHFULLY can't afford to buy mineral new oil, when it supposedly gums up, then try to budget for it in other ways - > >Charge a few pennies more for cutting per sq. inch - or for your slabbed materials - Collect aluminum cans and plastic bottles - cut a few coupons during the year, have a garage sale, etc -- > >Mineral oil washes off easily, has little to NO SMELL at all and is the least toxic of any petroleum oil. > >Mineral Oil much kinder on rocks, people and our planet . > >Good Luck > >RnL > > >-----Original Message----- >From: tim@orerockon.com >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Sent: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 6:45 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw > > >Vegetable oil will definitely create a varnish and turn to goo in a rock saw. Mineral oil will not. That said, it is not the best coolant, as has been discussed on this list ad nauseum. I stick with oils manufactured for use as coolants. Using mineral oil over the long term is harder on all the components of your saw than using cutting or machine lubricants. > >At 03:50 AM 7/21/2006, you wrote: >> >>In a message dated 7/21/2006 12:00:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>kadok@infowest.com writes: >> >>Mineral oil also has the reputation (well-deserved) of gumming up your saw >>blade after awhile. >> >>Margaret >> >> >> >>I've been using it for ages in several saws due to a wife who can't stand >>the smell of Pella or Almag. I haven't had one bit of gumming up on >the blade. >>The rock does a wonderful job of keeping the blade clean. Not like a regular >>saw cutting sappy pine, I have had to clean resin off router and saw blades >>many times. >> >>What does happen though is the rock dust, after a while, quite's settling >>out and the oil itself gets to about the consistency of pudding. You >don't see >>that with Almag or Pella. I don't know that I'm changing the oil any sooner >>though. To be honest, I never kept track based on total usage. You >can recover >>some of the oil from the pudding by filtering it through paper sacks and it >>is about the same consistency as the original oil, just amber colored. >> >>Dan > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >________________________________________________________________________ >Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From tim at orerockon.com Mon Aug 7 13:15:01 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Aug 7 13:15:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds]Cutting MINERAL OIL - Stats - Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <8C8886503BACA4B-1090-11C5@mblk-r13.sysops.aol.com> References: <2e3.a659f9b.31f20b7a@aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060721062126.046847e8@orerockon.com> <8C8886503BACA4B-1090-11C5@mblk-r13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060807130538.04796fa0@orerockon.com> How many times does this nonsense have to be posted to this list before this person is banned? Haven't we seen this exact same posting before? And way to go Al, you hit the nail on the head. Talk about beating a thoroughly dead & rotted horse. At 11:18 AM 8/7/2006, you wrote: >All petroleum based cutting oils are TOXIC - > >Never use any oil other than 100 % food grade mineral oil for >cutting rocks - Although it too is petroleum based, it is like >comparing thick blackstrap molasses sugar, pella etc - versus white >sugar dissolved in water, being mineral oil etc... Mineral oil is >just purer and cleaner > >The natural organic rocks we cut from our mother earth and the >people who eventually come into contact with them, by touching the >rocks, wearing the rocks, breathing the rock cutting oil vapors, >deserve to have the least toxic and cleanest cutting oil available - > >Sure the toxic pella type oils are not biodegradable, in the sense >that their consistency and smelliness and toxicity and cutting >FLUIDITY will last a VERY long time. > >But fluidity time is not worth polluting our bodies and our planet earth ... > >IF and that is a BIG IF ! Food grade Mineral oil does in fact, >statistically "gum up," within a certain time period, probably >after 1,000 + hours of cutting in an 18" saw . Boo Hoo :( - >Then simply purchase new mineral oil and keep on cutting - > >If you REALLY TRUTHFULLY can't afford to buy mineral new oil, when >it supposedly gums up, then try to budget for it in other ways - > >Charge a few pennies more for cutting per sq. inch - or for your >slabbed materials - Collect aluminum cans and plastic bottles - cut >a few coupons during the year, have a garage sale, etc -- > >Mineral oil washes off easily, has little to NO SMELL at all and is >the least toxic of any petroleum oil. > >Mineral Oil much kinder on rocks, people and our planet . > >Good Luck > >RnL > > >-----Original Message----- >From: tim@orerockon.com >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Sent: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 6:45 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw > > >Vegetable oil will definitely create a varnish and turn to goo in a >rock saw. Mineral oil will not. That said, it is not the best >coolant, as has been discussed on this list ad nauseum. I stick with >oils manufactured for use as coolants. Using mineral oil over the >long term is harder on all the components of your saw than using >cutting or machine lubricants. > >At 03:50 AM 7/21/2006, you wrote: > > > >In a message dated 7/21/2006 12:00:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > >kadok@infowest.com writes: > > > >Mineral oil also has the reputation (well-deserved) of gumming up your saw > >blade after awhile. > > > >Margaret > > > > > > > >I've been using it for ages in several saws due to a wife who can't stand > >the smell of Pella or Almag. I haven't had one bit of gumming up > on >the blade. > >The rock does a wonderful job of keeping the blade clean. Not like > a regular > >saw cutting sappy pine, I have had to clean resin off router and saw blades > >many times. > > > >What does happen though is the rock dust, after a while, quite's settling > >out and the oil itself gets to about the consistency of pudding. > You >don't see > >that with Almag or Pella. I don't know that I'm changing the oil any sooner > >though. To be honest, I never kept track based on total usage. > You >can recover > >some of the oil from the pudding by filtering it through paper sacks and it > >is about the same consistency as the original oil, just amber colored. > > > >Dan > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From mineral.maertens at att.net Mon Aug 7 15:31:06 2006 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan) Date: Mon Aug 7 15:31:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: carbide chisels: a recommendation Message-ID: <080720062231.9362.44D7BF29000D9E180000249221603763169C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> Don, Idaho ... not close ... Did you try the Big Horn Burgdorf Witbier from Big Horn Brewing Boise (The Ram)? or Sockeye Stonefly Wit from Sockeye Brewing in Boise? Not as good as Hoegaarden ... Do not have many left in the refrigerator ... too hot here .. I need frequent rehydration ... The fat pointed chisel you refer to is the one I bought. Called comfort grip ... That is the chisel that works reasonably to really well for cracking rock. The fat one below is the flat chisel. Poor performance. Next time I go to trap rock quarry I will try it on basalt and wills hare my experience. Idaho ... any good calcite out there? -- Johan Maertens From Lapidry at aol.com Mon Aug 7 19:48:06 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 7 19:48:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds]Cutting MINERAL OIL - Stats - Oil for slab saw Message-ID: <326.9ab7b07.32095566@aol.com> In a message dated 8/7/2006 2:52:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, albalmer@att.net writes: So-called "food grade" mineral oil is TOXIC. If you don't believe me, just try drinking a pint of it. food grade mineral oil is also sold as a laxative..... I believe this covers your results of drinking a pint...... By the way, turns out both Target and WalMart charge $1.37 locally for a 20 ounce bottle of baby oil (mineral oil with a slight scent) Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Aug 7 20:01:32 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Aug 7 20:00:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds]Cutting MINERAL OIL - Stats - Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <326.9ab7b07.32095566@aol.com> References: <326.9ab7b07.32095566@aol.com> Message-ID: <44D7FE8C.5000508@verizon.net> Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > food grade mineral oil is also sold as a laxative..... I believe this covers > your results of drinking a pint...... I am not participating in this debate and I think we're getting out of hand, but I do think it might help to offer some factual assistance... I am holding a bottle I bought to use a as a lube for Dremel work, Rite Aid Mineral Oil USP, lubricant laxative (yikes), 1 pint, odorless tasteless & colorless. Are you all sure you're talking about the same mineral oil? Unfortunately the name doesn't give you the IUPAC chemical name for the stuff; I always guessed it was a vegetable oil or some such, because it is consumable, and never figured it was a refined crude oil product. Diplomatic Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Aug 7 20:16:51 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Aug 7 20:15:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: carbide chisels: a recommendation In-Reply-To: <080720062231.9362.44D7BF29000D9E180000249221603763169C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> References: <080720062231.9362.44D7BF29000D9E180000249221603763169C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> Message-ID: <44D80223.2080604@verizon.net> Johan wrote: > > Idaho ... any good calcite out there? Not that I've seen yet; you can ask Lanny Ream if there's any good stuff anywhere in the state beyond the upper panhandle. I found some nice little "pineapple" calcites, fluorescent and phosphorescent, in large vesicles in basalt at a gravel quarry near Harvard (our Harvard, not Boston's). That's about it so far. Don From Lapidry at aol.com Mon Aug 7 21:01:31 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 7 21:01:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds]Cutting MINERAL OIL - Stats - Oil for slab saw Message-ID: Don: Yes, food grade mineral oil shows up in a number of places. Baby oil and laxatives are just a couple of examples. As a laxative, they don't add any fragrance. As a baby oil, they add a slight fragrance. Go in to practically any drug store and find the laxatives. You'll find an 8 to 16 ounce bottle sold as a laxative for dramatically more than the $1.37 for the WalMart and Target in-store brand baby oil. I suspect it's sold as a lubricant for paper shredders at office supply stores for even more per volume. For those of you in that stage of life, you are probably more familiar with the colace I give to at least part (actually most in my particular unit) of my patients almost every day. Small red gel cap - much easier to take than mineral oil. I do happen to agree with others on this list that this is the third time mineral oil has been brought up in the last few months. Probably time to put it to rest. Dan In a message dated 8/7/2006 11:00:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, donhalterman@verizon.net writes: Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > food grade mineral oil is also sold as a laxative..... I believe this covers > your results of drinking a pint...... I am not participating in this debate and I think we're getting out of hand, but I do think it might help to offer some factual assistance... I am holding a bottle I bought to use a as a lube for Dremel work, Rite Aid Mineral Oil USP, lubricant laxative (yikes), 1 pint, odorless tasteless & colorless. Are you all sure you're talking about the same mineral oil? Unfortunately the name doesn't give you the IUPAC chemical name for the stuff; I always guessed it was a vegetable oil or some such, because it is consumable, and never figured it was a refined crude oil product. Diplomatic Don --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ROCKCURRIER at cs.com Tue Aug 8 00:29:26 2006 From: ROCKCURRIER at cs.com (ROCKCURRIER@cs.com) Date: Tue Aug 8 00:29:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese mineral collectors Message-ID: <7118623D.73A80BE3.3AEB17FB@cs.com> I was recently told by Alfredo Petrov that a gem and mineral society has been formed in Hong Kong and they give programs on a regular basis and have even taken some field trips to local mineral localities. I also think that some Chinese mineral dealers have personal collections although most of what they get is sold, because it is more important to them to buy a place to live, a house or an apartment. When they manage to get a place to live and a car, and some of the other things that we consider to be the essentials of life, then you will see them start to build mineral collections. Rock Currier From albalmer at att.net Tue Aug 8 08:00:16 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Aug 8 08:00:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds]Cutting MINERAL OIL - Stats - Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <44D7FE8C.5000508@verizon.net> References: <326.9ab7b07.32095566@aol.com> <44D7FE8C.5000508@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 20:01:32 -0700, DonH wrote: >Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > >> food grade mineral oil is also sold as a laxative..... I believe this covers >> your results of drinking a pint...... > > >I am not participating in this debate and I think we're getting out of >hand, but I do think it might help to offer some factual assistance... I >am holding a bottle I bought to use a as a lube for Dremel work, Rite >Aid Mineral Oil USP, lubricant laxative (yikes), 1 pint, odorless >tasteless & colorless. > >Are you all sure you're talking about the same mineral oil? >Unfortunately the name doesn't give you the IUPAC chemical name for the >stuff; We're sure :-) http://www.inchem.org/documents/jecfa/jecmono/v48aje08.htm (Not a specially selected reference, just the first that came up in a Google search.) > I always guessed it was a vegetable oil or some such, because it >is consumable, and never figured it was a refined crude oil product. Vegetable oils are labeled as such (corn oil, olive oil, etc) and are *not* a good thing to use for any kind of equipment, unless it's cleaned thoroughly after each use. They will serve as laxatives, though, if taken in sufficient quantity . -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Aug 8 08:13:00 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Aug 8 08:13:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hi Everyone, I'm back.... Message-ID: <44D8A9FC.4010906@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, Boy, it's been a while since I last said hello! I've been off digging for the last two months and have only just recently returned. It was quite an adventure! This will be the first of several emails I'll be posting this morning and is a kind of introduction to those that will follow. The next will regard my recent trip collecting for nearly 2 months in Nevada and will be followed by our report on our recent Western Washington Get Together and finally, I'll post a paper I submitted just prior to leaving back in May that somehow didn't make it to the list. Sincerely, I hope you all enjoy. All the very best everyone, take care, John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Aug 8 08:13:37 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Aug 8 08:13:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah Junction Adventure! Message-ID: <44D8AA21.4000305@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, Well, here it is. This is the link... http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Collecting%20Reports/Petersen%20Mnt%20June,%202006/Peterson%20Mountain%20Commercial%20Dig%20June%20July%202006.htm ... that will take you to the first telling of our big Petersen Mountain/ Hallelujah Junction quartz dig. I've yet to write and post my version, but his will definitely give you a feel for the fun! I very much hope you enjoy! All the very best, John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Aug 8 08:14:07 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Aug 8 08:14:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Western Washington Get Together 2! Message-ID: <44D8AA3F.6070909@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, For the last couple years, we've had a fun get together centering around the arrival of our good friend Herb from Japan. I've written up the adventure of our most recent Western Washington Get Together 2 and wanted to share it with you. I hope you enjoy! All the very best everyone, see ya, John http://mcrocks.com/ftr06-2/CornishJuly2006.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Aug 8 08:14:37 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Aug 8 08:14:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] As Their Excitement Grows Message-ID: <44D8AA5D.7070903@tenforward.com> 5/23/2006 As Their Excitement Grows By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com Hi Everyone, As many of you know, I share my passion for minerals and fossils with kids, young and old alike, throughout the year. As an especially nice gift, some of the schools later send enchanting letters from the kids. I treasure these letters and thought I'd share, in their own words, excerpts from several of the most recent. The kids deserve our very best, let's provide them with a nurturing learning environment where their wonderment thrives! Have a great day everyone, all the very best, John This from Kira... Thank you so much for teaching me about rocks. Before you came, my understanding of all kinds of rocks was as clear as mud. Now thanks to you, my understanding is as clear as the water I drink... You taught me so much, so every day now, I look at my rocks, before I step on them. I haven't found any yet, but I'll keep trying, and I know I will... The next time I go to the Library, I'm going to get a book on fluorescent rocks. Kristen writes... When you told us about how you went in the bat poop and found the cool rocks. That was funny and kind of gross. I guess if I were you I would of done the same thing... After the trip all the thing you told me made me go into my back yard and look for rocks. But I didn't find any thing... When I find a fossil or anything else I will keep it forever. Little Emily has this to say... I have bought some aggets that are pinks and blues but never knew they were died. And Katie... Thank you for talking to us about rocks. You really inspired me! I liked the way you were confusing us about if the rock you were holding up was junk or treasure... I am going to start looking for rocks along the river at my cabin. And Max... Thank you so much for teaching us all about rocks! The next day after you taught us, we went to a beach along Barnes Creek. We were testing the ph level of the water when I saw a rock with a white line around it. I picked it up and found a big, heavy and sturdy rock (don't worry, this was junk, not treasure) and started tapping at the rock that had a line. Finally, a chunk came off. The rock revealing small, short, white crystals. I was excited, so I looked around and found more. I was sad when I found out I couldn't take them out of the national park, so I left them where every body who walked by could see them.... I thought rocks were just rocks. Emma writes... Thank you so much for teaching me all about the rocks that are around us. I'm starting to think about rocks differently now, and I think I'll keep on looking in the future. Ryan had this to say... Now I'm influenced to go and look for fossils and crystals you just have to keep your eyes open. You had some really cool rocks and crystals. It shows that if you want to find fossils you have to go look for them. And this from Colin... Thank you for coming and teaching us about rocks. It was one of the most interesting hours I've ever had in my life. It was very fun to learn about rocks. And finally, making my day, here's Michall... It seems like everyone in my class is searching or is aware of rocks around them. Our passions can be infectious, share your passion and a smile will be its speedy reward! All the very best everyone, John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From SMKELL45 at aol.com Tue Aug 8 09:41:24 2006 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 8 09:41:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Beryl pit Message-ID: Just returned from the Beryl Pit outside of Bancroft, Ontario. Among the specimens were several beryl crystals with a brownish surface, not green. Obviously they have been altered, but to what. smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From thecooks at bresnan.net Sun Aug 6 20:02:38 2006 From: thecooks at bresnan.net (Nana Cook) Date: Tue Aug 8 10:46:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] astorite Message-ID: When we where in Silverton,CO. we found a few rocks of what we think is "Astorite" Is there any place in the Cheyenne,Wy. or Denver,CO. area to get an appraisal? From lanny at lrream.com Tue Aug 8 10:57:25 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Aug 8 10:58:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: carbide chisels: a recommendation In-Reply-To: <44D80223.2080604@verizon.net> References: <080720062231.9362.44D7BF29000D9E180000249221603763169C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> <44D80223.2080604@verizon.net> Message-ID: <89cc3dbb626f397813c221de7ad0c537@lrream.com> Hi Don and Johan, Idaho has a little calcite (Don look at the photos in Idaho Minerals for some I've found), but doesn't have many localities where I could specifically say go there to collect good specimens. There are small elongated scalenohedrons on the chabazite in roadcuts just south of Lucky Peak Dam east of Boise. Below the road in the picnic area (underwater when the reservoir is full) there are several zeolites in microcrystals in easily broken volcanic rock (phillipsite, levyne, chabazite). Calcite occurs in several habits on the Rat's Nest claim near Challis; John Cornish has some for sale on occasion. Unfortunately, most of the calcite is etched, but some nice crystals show up on occasion. It is also uncommon, but quite interesting in that same region at the locality of the quartz pseudomorphs after apophyllite, which John owns now too. The calcites are often odd ragged plates, elongated rhombs (look like square prisms), hex prisms, simple rhombs in groups and "chains" and other strange looking things. There are well formed thin hex plates in the quartz and agate geodes on Road Creek south of Challis. Rarely clusters of acute rhombs in a gulch near the Malm Creek petrified forest, also south of Challis. Rhombic crystals in the basalts at a cut on Highway 95 near Whitebird. There is a location for clusters of amber crystals supposedly in a small cut on Highway 95 near Slate Creek, but it hides from me. Colorless or amber rhombs on tiny heulandites on celadonite in the water laid basalts in a large roadcut at McKenzie (Mckinzie) Creek south of Whitebird on Highway 95. Colorless scalenohedrons on tiny heulandite and celadonite in water laid basalts on a stretch of the old highway along the Salmon River near Slate Creek off Highway 95. That covers where I've found fairly nice crystals of calcite in Idaho. There also are some nice small crystals in the oxide zones of the Bunker Hill Mine, and I think in the Galena and in the Sunshine mines up north here in the Coeur d'Alene District. Someone told me he found calcite crystals over 6 inches long on a mountain near Pocatello; supposed to tell me the location, but hasn't yet, and hasn't identified himself either. There are historic locations, some of which might be productive if someone checked them out; I haven't yet. I expect there are other Idaho locations for calcite. Come on over, check out the state and tell me what you find... . Regards, Lanny On Aug 7, 2006, at 8:16 PM, DonH wrote: > Johan wrote: > >> Idaho ... any good calcite out there? > > > Not that I've seen yet; you can ask Lanny Ream if there's any good > stuff anywhere in the state beyond the upper panhandle. I found some > nice little "pineapple" calcites, fluorescent and phosphorescent, in > large vesicles in basalt at a gravel quarry near Harvard (our Harvard, > not Boston's). That's about it so far. > > Don > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From SHMM at sussexonline.com Tue Aug 8 11:21:12 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Tue Aug 8 11:21:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] astorite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c6bb17$6e80bb10$647b1540@D3JM7W21> When we where in Silverton,CO. we found a few rocks of what we think is "Astorite" Is there any place in the Cheyenne,Wy. or Denver,CO. area to get an appraisal? As far as I know, astorite is neither a rock nor a mineral name. Is this one of those made-up commercial names? Please tell us more about this material -- what is it? Thanks - Earl Verbeek From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Aug 8 12:22:29 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Aug 8 12:22:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] astorite In-Reply-To: <000601c6bb17$6e80bb10$647b1540@D3JM7W21> References: <000601c6bb17$6e80bb10$647b1540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <7aac8040608081222g6cfc41d3vdf4c95508fccb6a0@mail.gmail.com> Earl, Some of the info I found about Astorite says, "Astorite is basically rhodonite, but in addition also contains - pardon us if we get rock-geeky here! - rhodochrosite, quartz (in the form of pseudomorphs, and chalcedony, after quartz), and ore gangue silicified (complex sulfide ore with native metallics of gold, silver, copper, lead and chalcopyrite)" from, http://www.trashcity.com/astorite.htm. It also says that it is only found "in a very remote area of Colorado in a mine located 12,000 feet above sea level in an avalanche chute." It is named after John Jacob Astor IV. There is also an old Drizzle post about it, (posted Sat Jul 20 08:50:01 2002) "This month's Rock & Gem magazine contains an article by June Culp Zeitner titled "Astorite: A New Gem Material." Turns out "astorite" is rhodonite. So once again we have someone making up a name for a material that has a perfectly acceptable official name already. Also, Ms Zeitner says "Because the chalcedony areas [of this particular deposit] often extend into the rhodonite, the hardness of most slabs is near Mohs 5 or 6 instead of the usual 3.5 for rhodonite." Funny, my books show rhodonite as 5.5-6 in hardness." Drew On 8/8/06, Earl Verbeek wrote: > > > When we where in Silverton,CO. we found a few rocks of what we think is > "Astorite" Is there any place in the Cheyenne,Wy. or Denver,CO. area to > get > an appraisal? > > As far as I know, astorite is neither a rock nor a mineral name. Is this > one of those made-up commercial names? Please tell us more about this > material -- what is it? > > Thanks - Earl Verbeek > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From SHMM at sussexonline.com Tue Aug 8 12:51:22 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Tue Aug 8 12:51:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] astorite In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608081222g6cfc41d3vdf4c95508fccb6a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c6bb24$06cc31e0$647b1540@D3JM7W21> Thanks, Drew! Nice to know what this material really is. These made-up commercial names are not only useless but irritating because there is so little reference material on them -- it's not like I can just pick up a copy of a good mineral text and find out what they mean. The Internet, though, commonly enables us to tap into the trade names and get the info, which may be what you did (and what I should have done in the first place!). Re Zeitner's article, I'll bet she got rhodonite mixed up with rhodochrosite. Then her statement on hardness would make sense. Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Drew Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 3:22 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] astorite Earl, Some of the info I found about Astorite says, "Astorite is basically rhodonite, but in addition also contains - pardon us if we get rock-geeky here! - rhodochrosite, quartz (in the form of pseudomorphs, and chalcedony, after quartz), and ore gangue silicified (complex sulfide ore with native metallics of gold, silver, copper, lead and chalcopyrite)" from, http://www.trashcity.com/astorite.htm. It also says that it is only found "in a very remote area of Colorado in a mine located 12,000 feet above sea level in an avalanche chute." It is named after John Jacob Astor IV. There is also an old Drizzle post about it, (posted Sat Jul 20 08:50:01 2002) "This month's Rock & Gem magazine contains an article by June Culp Zeitner titled "Astorite: A New Gem Material." Turns out "astorite" is rhodonite. So once again we have someone making up a name for a material that has a perfectly acceptable official name already. Also, Ms Zeitner says "Because the chalcedony areas [of this particular deposit] often extend into the rhodonite, the hardness of most slabs is near Mohs 5 or 6 instead of the usual 3.5 for rhodonite." Funny, my books show rhodonite as 5.5-6 in hardness." Drew From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Aug 8 13:02:55 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Aug 8 13:02:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] astorite In-Reply-To: <000001c6bb24$06cc31e0$647b1540@D3JM7W21> References: <000001c6bb24$06cc31e0$647b1540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <44D8EDEF.3060400@verizon.net> Earl Verbeek wrote: > Thanks, Drew! Nice to know what this material really is. These made-up > commercial names are not only useless but irritating because there is so > little reference material on them It gets worse. The people who are hawking this commonly used material have a website, http://www.astorite.com/ . They never reveal what it is but sure make it sound wondrous; how nice that they are "offering it under the name ASTORITE" in honor of John Jacb Astor (didn't he star in "Titantic?") Sounds like they went to school with the people who offered us Sunspar. The best handling of a trade name in recent years, in my carefully considered opinion, was the creation of Larimar. This is blue pectolite, which was indeed revealed in the text of the ad; and as far as I could tell, the material was unique. And it didn't have an unsanctioned -ite at the end. Honest and very well done, with a neat name that was obviously a trade name. Don From tim at orerockon.com Tue Aug 8 13:54:05 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Aug 8 13:54:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah Junction Adventure! In-Reply-To: <44D8AA21.4000305@tenforward.com> References: <44D8AA21.4000305@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808135117.044a9e40@orerockon.com> Nice pics, I did a "double 360-slam into the bank" on the exact same spot on a Bob Jackson trip. Just a note though, while the top of the mountain is certainly entirely claimed, the good collecting in the float coming off the top is on unclaimed BLM land, AFAIK. At 08:13 AM 8/8/2006, you wrote: >Hi Everyone, > >Well, here it is. This is the link... > >http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Collecting%20Reports/Petersen%20Mnt%20June,%202006/Peterson%20Mountain%20Commercial%20Dig%20June%20July%202006.htm > >... that will take you to the first telling of our big Petersen >Mountain/ Hallelujah Junction quartz dig. I've yet to write and post >my version, but his will definitely give you a feel for the fun! I >very much hope you enjoy! All the very best, > >John Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tjokela at execulink.com Tue Aug 8 15:26:46 2006 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Tue Aug 8 15:26:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Beryl pit References: Message-ID: <00db01c6bb39$bbffeec0$6400a8c0@Junior> Some of the beryl crystals are pseudomorphed by a mixture of minerals; primarily chlorite, a clay mineral, and bertrandite. Replacement can be partial, with relict needles of beryl inside, or complete. A white mineral in minute white needles, perhaps bavenite, has also been found within these. More work remains. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 12:41 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Beryl pit > Just returned from the Beryl Pit outside of Bancroft, Ontario. Among the > specimens were several beryl crystals with a brownish surface, not green. > Obviously they have been altered, but to what. smkell > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Aug 8 16:03:37 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Aug 8 16:03:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Beryl pit References: Message-ID: <44D91842.797C@Tomaszewski.net> Lots of brown stuff comes out of the Beryl Pit and surrounding areas. For a fairly complete list see http://www.bancroftdistrict.com/Tourism/mineral_description.php and maybe you will recognize what you found. Kreigh SMKELL45@aol.com wrote: > > Just returned from the Beryl Pit outside of Bancroft, Ontario. Among the > specimens were several beryl crystals with a brownish surface, not green. > Obviously they have been altered, but to what. smkell > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tim at orerockon.com Tue Aug 8 16:06:10 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Aug 8 16:06:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> Thanks to Jay for reminding me of those nasty rumors that you can't even dig in the dirt at Petersen Mtn. anymore. I did some checking and there are NO current claims in the sections in which I know you can find quartz crystals on the west side of Petersen Mountain. That is according to the BLM, which both owns the land and administers the claims. I love these rumors, they keep the rockhounds off of something which someone wishes they had claimed but didn't. Wonder who starts them? Hmmm...indeed, there are only TWO active, legal claims in the entire area, both on the NV side, and both are Foster Hallman's. The exact same situation as when I was last there. So a big tsk tsk also goes out to Mr. Kleine, check your facts before you tell people that the entire mountain is claimed. Rockhounds are your customers, not your enemies. When they don't find those huge scepters in the dirt they will come to you to buy one so they can tell their buddies they dug it. Treat them with respect & they will treat you with their $$. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Aug 8 16:12:42 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Aug 8 16:12:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] astorite References: <000601c6bb17$6e80bb10$647b1540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <44D91A62.AF0@Tomaszewski.net> Astorite is rhodonite with chalcedony. See http://lists.drizzle.com/pipermail/rockhounds/2002-July/000549.html or you can see a picture at http://www.astorite.com and find out more about the mine. Kreigh Earl Verbeek wrote: > > When we where in Silverton,CO. we found a few rocks of what we think is > "Astorite" Is there any place in the Cheyenne,Wy. or Denver,CO. area to get > an appraisal? > > As far as I know, astorite is neither a rock nor a mineral name. Is this > one of those made-up commercial names? Please tell us more about this > material -- what is it? > > Thanks - Earl Verbeek > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Aug 8 18:49:12 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Aug 8 18:49:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <44D93F18.3000401@tenforward.com> Tim, My name is John Cornish, rather then slinging at someone who is not on this list and thus unable to respond to your little inquisition, why not address me, the person who posted, I'm right here. Your wrong. Believe what you'd like. That's your right, heck everyone has an opinion. No flames, or if so, my email and Scott's are both here and on his website. Heck, call Foster. There are more realities then the one you think you know! We had a wonderful adventure and I'm happy to share it, others are sure to enjoy the experience, despite your negativity. John Cornish Tim Fisher wrote: > Thanks to Jay for reminding me of those nasty rumors that you can't > even dig in the dirt at Petersen Mtn. anymore. I did some checking and > there are NO current claims in the sections in which I know you can > find quartz crystals on the west side of Petersen Mountain. That is > according to the BLM, which both owns the land and administers the > claims. I love these rumors, they keep the rockhounds off of something > which someone wishes they had claimed but didn't. Wonder who starts > them? Hmmm...indeed, there are only TWO active, legal claims in the > entire area, both on the NV side, and both are Foster Hallman's. The > exact same situation as when I was last there. So a big tsk tsk also > goes out to Mr. Kleine, check your facts before you tell people that > the entire mountain is claimed. Rockhounds are your customers, not > your enemies. When they don't find those huge scepters in the dirt > they will come to you to buy one so they can tell their buddies they > dug it. Treat them with respect & they will treat you with their $$. > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Tue Aug 8 19:16:41 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Aug 8 19:16:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <44D93F18.3000401@tenforward.com> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> <44D93F18.3000401@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808191157.047fe738@orerockon.com> I wasnt flaming anyone. I did check with the BLM, who have exactly 2 claims on record in either CA or NV on Petersen Mtn. If they are wrong, then they should stop giving out misinformation. I know Foster, and both the valid claims are registered under his and Jon's names. I am sure that one is the one you did your mining at. I simply suggested that scratching in the dirt off the two valid claims might reward someone with some crystals to take home. Inquisition? Come on John, I called the BLM like anyone else could have. It took me all of 15 minutes. It's absolutely amazing how the commercial types get their hackles a flyin' when someone suggests that rockhounds might be able to scratch in the dirt and find some decent material. Tsk tsk to you too. At 06:49 PM 8/8/2006, you wrote: Tim, My name is John Cornish, rather then slinging at someone who is not on this list and thus unable to respond to your little inquisition, why not address me, the person who posted, I'm right here. Your wrong. Believe what you'd like. That's your right, heck everyone has an opinion. No flames, or if so, my email and Scott's are both here and on his website. Heck, call Foster. There are more realities then the one you think you know! We had a wonderful adventure and I'm happy to share it, others are sure to enjoy the experience, despite your negativity. John Cornish Tim Fisher wrote: Thanks to Jay for reminding me of those nasty rumors that you can't even dig in the dirt at Petersen Mtn. anymore. I did some checking and there are NO current claims in the sections in which I know you can find quartz crystals on the west side of Petersen Mountain. That is according to the BLM, which both owns the land and administers the claims. I love these rumors, they keep the rockhounds off of something which someone wishes they had claimed but didn't. Wonder who starts them? Hmmm...indeed, there are only TWO active, legal claims in the entire area, both on the NV side, and both are Foster Hallman's. The exact same situation as when I was last there. So a big tsk tsk also goes out to Mr. Kleine, check your facts before you tell people that the entire mountain is claimed. Rockhounds are your customers, not your enemies. When they don't find those huge scepters in the dirt they will come to you to buy one so they can tell their buddies they dug it. Treat them with respect & they will treat you with their $$. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From rockhounds at adelphia.net Tue Aug 8 19:56:09 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Tue Aug 8 19:51:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] astorite In-Reply-To: <000601c6bb17$6e80bb10$647b1540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <000001c6bb5f$5e324d80$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> We bought some of this material two years ago from a gentleman from Leadville, Colorado. We have made a couple of cabs from it and found it to undercut on some of the softer area of the stone. However it does reveal flecks of silver and gold and even some copper type material but the base is obliviously rhodonite. The cabs are definitely something to work on as they were very popular at our local rock show where I did demos on cabs. Kelly and Valerie -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Earl Verbeek Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 11:21 AM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] astorite When we where in Silverton,CO. we found a few rocks of what we think is "Astorite" Is there any place in the Cheyenne,Wy. or Denver,CO. area to get an appraisal? As far as I know, astorite is neither a rock nor a mineral name. Is this one of those made-up commercial names? Please tell us more about this material -- what is it? Thanks - Earl Verbeek -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Tue Aug 8 20:05:58 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Tue Aug 8 20:06:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808191157.047fe738@orerockon.com> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> <44D93F18.3000401@tenforward.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060808191157.047fe738@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <44D95116.3040103@tenforward.com> Tim, A shame. As you will. I stand by my comments. There are more realities then the one you think you know. But your right about one thing, misinformation is bad! My apologies to the list for these public tirades. Please, should anyone desire, follow up on your own and come to your own conclusions. But please, do it first hand. We had both BLM and MSHA inspections while we were on site. With my choices being them, in person, face to face, or Tim, I'm quite happy with the information provided by my sources. Again, my email address is right here at the top of this email. John Cornish Tim Fisher wrote: >I wasnt flaming anyone. I did check with the BLM, who have exactly 2 >claims on record in either CA or NV on Petersen Mtn. If they are wrong, >then they should stop giving out misinformation. I know Foster, and both >the valid claims are registered under his and Jon's names. I am sure that >one is the one you did your mining at. I simply suggested that scratching >in the dirt off the two valid claims might reward someone with some >crystals to take home. > > >Inquisition? Come on John, I called the BLM like anyone else could have. >It took me all of 15 minutes. It's absolutely amazing how the commercial >types get their hackles a flyin' when someone suggests that rockhounds >might be able to scratch in the dirt and find some decent material. Tsk >tsk to you too. > > >At 06:49 PM 8/8/2006, you wrote: > >Tim, > > >My name is John Cornish, rather then slinging at someone who is not on >this list and thus unable to respond to your little inquisition, why not >address me, the person who posted, I'm right here. Your wrong. Believe >what you'd like. That's your right, heck everyone has an opinion. No >flames, or if so, my email and Scott's are both here and on his website. >Heck, call Foster. There are more realities then the one you think you >know! > > >We had a wonderful adventure and I'm happy to share it, others are sure >to enjoy the experience, despite your negativity. > > >John Cornish > > >Tim Fisher wrote: > > >Thanks to Jay for reminding me >of those nasty rumors that you can't even dig in the dirt at Petersen >Mtn. anymore. I did some checking and there are NO current claims in the >sections in which I know you can find quartz crystals on the west side of >Petersen Mountain. That is according to the BLM, which both owns the land >and administers the claims. I love these rumors, they keep the rockhounds >off of something which someone wishes they had claimed but didn't. Wonder >who starts them? Hmmm...indeed, there are only TWO active, legal claims >in the entire area, both on the NV side, and both are Foster Hallman's. >The exact same situation as when I was last there. So a big tsk tsk also >goes out to Mr. Kleine, check your facts before you tell people that the >entire mountain is claimed. Rockhounds are your customers, not your >enemies. When they don't find those huge scepters in the dirt they will >come to you to buy one so they can tell their buddies they dug it. Treat >them with respect & they will treat you with their $$. > > > > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > >Web Site: >http://OreRockOn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://OreRockOn.com > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >text/html (html body -- converted) >--- > > From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Aug 8 21:11:01 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Tue Aug 8 21:09:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> <44D93F18.3000401@tenforward.com><7.0.0.16.2.20060808191157.047fe738@orerockon.com> <44D95116.3040103@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <000a01c6bb69$d432d860$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Tim, I am not sure how I reminded you about Peterson Mountain, but I have been busy trying to find out what the status of claims is on Peterson Mountain for a number of people in my club. I have been in contact with John to try to find out what he knew about the claim status. I sent you a copy of that correspondence this afternoon after I read you email to drizzle.com. My only concern is to try and find out the status of claims. I have not and do not want to make waves between rockhounds and small miners. In many respects we are either going to hang together or seperately since we all are marked for the endangered species list by those who are slowly strangling our mutual pursuits of passion. I do know from a number of sources that there are a whole bunch of new claim markers on the mountain. Why BLM does not know about them I haven't a clue. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! > Tim, > > A shame. As you will. I stand by my comments. There are more realities > then the one you think you know. But your right about one thing, > misinformation is bad! > > My apologies to the list for these public tirades. Please, should anyone > desire, follow up on your own and come to your own conclusions. But > please, do it first hand. We had both BLM and MSHA inspections while we > were on site. With my choices being them, in person, face to face, or > Tim, I'm quite happy with the information provided by my sources. > > Again, my email address is right here at the top of this email. > > John Cornish > > Tim Fisher wrote: > > >I wasnt flaming anyone. I did check with the BLM, who have exactly 2 > >claims on record in either CA or NV on Petersen Mtn. If they are wrong, > >then they should stop giving out misinformation. I know Foster, and both > >the valid claims are registered under his and Jon's names. I am sure that > >one is the one you did your mining at. I simply suggested that scratching > >in the dirt off the two valid claims might reward someone with some > >crystals to take home. > > > > > >Inquisition? Come on John, I called the BLM like anyone else could have. > >It took me all of 15 minutes. It's absolutely amazing how the commercial > >types get their hackles a flyin' when someone suggests that rockhounds > >might be able to scratch in the dirt and find some decent material. Tsk > >tsk to you too. > > > > > >At 06:49 PM 8/8/2006, you wrote: > > > >Tim, > > > > > >My name is John Cornish, rather then slinging at someone who is not on > >this list and thus unable to respond to your little inquisition, why not > >address me, the person who posted, I'm right here. Your wrong. Believe > >what you'd like. That's your right, heck everyone has an opinion. No > >flames, or if so, my email and Scott's are both here and on his website. > >Heck, call Foster. There are more realities then the one you think you > >know! > > > > > >We had a wonderful adventure and I'm happy to share it, others are sure > >to enjoy the experience, despite your negativity. > > > > > >John Cornish > > > > > >Tim Fisher wrote: > > > > > >Thanks to Jay for reminding me > >of those nasty rumors that you can't even dig in the dirt at Petersen > >Mtn. anymore. I did some checking and there are NO current claims in the > >sections in which I know you can find quartz crystals on the west side of > >Petersen Mountain. That is according to the BLM, which both owns the land > >and administers the claims. I love these rumors, they keep the rockhounds > >off of something which someone wishes they had claimed but didn't. Wonder > >who starts them? Hmmm...indeed, there are only TWO active, legal claims > >in the entire area, both on the NV side, and both are Foster Hallman's. > >The exact same situation as when I was last there. So a big tsk tsk also > >goes out to Mr. Kleine, check your facts before you tell people that the > >entire mountain is claimed. Rockhounds are your customers, not your > >enemies. When they don't find those huge scepters in the dirt they will > >come to you to buy one so they can tell their buddies they dug it. Treat > >them with respect & they will treat you with their $$. > > > > > > > > > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > > >Web Site: > >http://OreRockOn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://OreRockOn.com > > > > > > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >text/html (html body -- converted) > >--- > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocknlight at aol.com Wed Aug 9 01:54:04 2006 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 9 01:54:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BANNING MINERAL OIL - Stats - Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060807130538.04796fa0@orerockon.com> References: <2e3.a659f9b.31f20b7a@aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060721062126.046847e8@orerockon.com> <8C8886503BACA4B-1090-11C5@mblk-r13.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060807130538.04796fa0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <8C889A8803EFFB0-274-23EA@MBLK-R06.sysops.aol.com> It is good to see that some rockhounds are still willing to learn.... Food grade mineral oils of different viscosities at www.STEOIL.COM shows information that was new to me and very helpful My direct thanks and appreciation to the person that posted the site address for us all to learn from.. Twit-like taunting and also, suggesting the banning of any person or any information, which even only ONE person may learn from here, to help in their lapidary endeavors, is vindictive, dark and despicable behavior, which needs professional intervention.. Much success to all the friendly and caring rockhounds -----Original Message----- From: tim@orerockon.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds]Cutting MINERAL OIL - Stats - Oil for slab saw How many times does this nonsense have to be posted to this list before this person is banned? Haven't we seen this exact same posting before? And way to go Al, you hit the nail on the head. Talk about beating a thoroughly dead & rotted horse. At 11:18 AM 8/7/2006, you wrote: >All petroleum based cutting oils are TOXIC - > >Never use any oil other than 100 % food grade mineral oil for >cutting rocks - Although it too is petroleum based, it is like >comparing thick blackstrap molasses sugar, pella etc - versus white >sugar dissolved in water, being mineral oil etc... Mineral oil is >just purer and cleaner > >The natural organic rocks we cut from our mother earth and the >people who eventually come into contact with them, by touching the >rocks, wearing the rocks, breathing the rock cutting oil vapors, >deserve to have the least toxic and cleanest cutting oil available - > >Sure the toxic pella type oils are not biodegradable, in the sense >that their consistency and smelliness and toxicity and cutting >FLUIDITY will last a VERY long time. > >But fluidity time is not worth polluting our bodies and our planet earth ... > >IF and that is a BIG IF ! Food grade Mineral oil does in fact, >statistically "gum up," within a certain time period, probably >after 1,000 + hours of cutting in an 18" saw . Boo Hoo :( - >Then simply purchase new mineral oil and keep on cutting - > >If you REALLY TRUTHFULLY can't afford to buy mineral new oil, when >it supposedly gums up, then try to budget for it in other ways - > >Charge a few pennies more for cutting per sq. inch - or for your >slabbed materials - Collect aluminum cans and plastic bottles - cut >a few coupons during the year, have a garage sale, etc -- > >Mineral oil washes off easily, has little to NO SMELL at all and is >the least toxic of any petroleum oil. > >Mineral Oil much kinder on rocks, people and our planet . > >Good Luck > >RnL > > >-----Original Message----- >From: tim@orerockon.com >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Sent: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 6:45 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw > > >Vegetable oil will definitely create a varnish and turn to goo in a >rock saw. Mineral oil will not. That said, it is not the best >coolant, as has been discussed on this list ad nauseum. I stick with >oils manufactured for use as coolants. Using mineral oil over the >long term is harder on all the components of your saw than using >cutting or machine lubricants. > >At 03:50 AM 7/21/2006, you wrote: > > > >In a message dated 7/21/2006 12:00:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > >kadok@infowest.com writes: > > > >Mineral oil also has the reputation (well-deserved) of gumming up your saw > >blade after awhile. > > > >Margaret > > > > > > > >I've been using it for ages in several saws due to a wife who can't stand > >the smell of Pella or Almag. I haven't had one bit of gumming up > on >the blade. > >The rock does a wonderful job of keeping the blade clean. Not like > a regular > >saw cutting sappy pine, I have had to clean resin off router and saw blades > >many times. > > > >What does happen though is the rock dust, after a while, quite's settling > >out and the oil itself gets to about the consistency of pudding. > You >don't see > >that with Almag or Pella. I don't know that I'm changing the oil any sooner > >though. To be honest, I never kept track based on total usage. > You >can recover > >some of the oil from the pudding by filtering it through paper sacks and it > >is about the same consistency as the original oil, just amber colored. > > > >Dan > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bobl at peaktopeak.com Wed Aug 9 02:24:08 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Aug 9 02:24:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <000a01c6bb69$d432d860$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <200608090924.k799O93Z026469@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I'm sure it takes time to get new claim info into the filing cabinets and computers. After all, we are talking about a government entity that probably doesn't have a full-time person working on mining claim paperwork 8 hours a day. When I filed my claim in Colorado, the BLM's Mining and Claims person wasn't there (he/she has a lot of other things taking up their time) so someone else took my paperwork and money. I don't know how long it took to get into their records, but I'm sure it wasn't that week. Also, I had to file the claim at the County Recorder's office too, so you might check with them to see if they can find more claims on the mountain. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:11 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! Tim, I am not sure how I reminded you about Peterson Mountain, but I have been busy trying to find out what the status of claims is on Peterson Mountain for a number of people in my club. I have been in contact with John to try to find out what he knew about the claim status. I sent you a copy of that correspondence this afternoon after I read you email to drizzle.com. My only concern is to try and find out the status of claims. I have not and do not want to make waves between rockhounds and small miners. In many respects we are either going to hang together or seperately since we all are marked for the endangered species list by those who are slowly strangling our mutual pursuits of passion. I do know from a number of sources that there are a whole bunch of new claim markers on the mountain. Why BLM does not know about them I haven't a clue. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! > Tim, > > A shame. As you will. I stand by my comments. There are more realities > then the one you think you know. But your right about one thing, > misinformation is bad! > > My apologies to the list for these public tirades. Please, should anyone > desire, follow up on your own and come to your own conclusions. But > please, do it first hand. We had both BLM and MSHA inspections while we > were on site. With my choices being them, in person, face to face, or > Tim, I'm quite happy with the information provided by my sources. > > Again, my email address is right here at the top of this email. > > John Cornish > > Tim Fisher wrote: > > >I wasnt flaming anyone. I did check with the BLM, who have exactly 2 > >claims on record in either CA or NV on Petersen Mtn. If they are wrong, > >then they should stop giving out misinformation. I know Foster, and both > >the valid claims are registered under his and Jon's names. I am sure that > >one is the one you did your mining at. I simply suggested that scratching > >in the dirt off the two valid claims might reward someone with some > >crystals to take home. > > > > > >Inquisition? Come on John, I called the BLM like anyone else could have. > >It took me all of 15 minutes. It's absolutely amazing how the commercial > >types get their hackles a flyin' when someone suggests that rockhounds > >might be able to scratch in the dirt and find some decent material. Tsk > >tsk to you too. > > > > > >At 06:49 PM 8/8/2006, you wrote: > > > >Tim, > > > > > >My name is John Cornish, rather then slinging at someone who is not on > >this list and thus unable to respond to your little inquisition, why not > >address me, the person who posted, I'm right here. Your wrong. Believe > >what you'd like. That's your right, heck everyone has an opinion. No > >flames, or if so, my email and Scott's are both here and on his website. > >Heck, call Foster. There are more realities then the one you think you > >know! > > > > > >We had a wonderful adventure and I'm happy to share it, others are sure > >to enjoy the experience, despite your negativity. > > > > > >John Cornish > > > > > >Tim Fisher wrote: > > > > > >Thanks to Jay for reminding me > >of those nasty rumors that you can't even dig in the dirt at Petersen > >Mtn. anymore. I did some checking and there are NO current claims in the > >sections in which I know you can find quartz crystals on the west side of > >Petersen Mountain. That is according to the BLM, which both owns the land > >and administers the claims. I love these rumors, they keep the rockhounds > >off of something which someone wishes they had claimed but didn't. Wonder > >who starts them? Hmmm...indeed, there are only TWO active, legal claims > >in the entire area, both on the NV side, and both are Foster Hallman's. > >The exact same situation as when I was last there. So a big tsk tsk also > >goes out to Mr. Kleine, check your facts before you tell people that the > >entire mountain is claimed. Rockhounds are your customers, not your > >enemies. When they don't find those huge scepters in the dirt they will > >come to you to buy one so they can tell their buddies they dug it. Treat > >them with respect & they will treat you with their $$. > > > > > > > > > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > > >Web Site: > >http://OreRockOn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://OreRockOn.com > > > > > > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >text/html (html body -- converted) > >--- > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From SHMM at sussexonline.com Wed Aug 9 06:17:27 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Wed Aug 9 06:17:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <000001c6bbb6$299db080$93651540@D3JM7W21> Hi Tim (and list), Just a quick comment on a previous statement: "That is according to the BLM, which both owns the land and administers the claims." The BLM owns no land at all -- it is the federal agency in charge of managing the use of that land on behalf of the actual owners, the citizens of the United States. BLM staff are taught to respect that distinction in all of their dealings with the public and other agencies. Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com From tim at orerockon.com Wed Aug 9 07:06:04 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Aug 9 07:06:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <200608090924.k799O93Z026469@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <000a01c6bb69$d432d860$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <200608090924.k799O93Z026469@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060809070405.04470078@orerockon.com> Bob, the 2006 mining that John mentions is in the BLM's database - I checked. These rumors have been circulating for years, not just days, weeks, or months. It doesn't take years for the BLM to enter new, valid claims into their database(s). At 02:24 AM 8/9/2006, you wrote: >I'm sure it takes time to get new claim info into the filing cabinets and >computers. After all, we are talking about a government entity that >probably doesn't have a full-time person working on mining claim paperwork 8 >hours a day. When I filed my claim in Colorado, the BLM's Mining and Claims >person wasn't there (he/she has a lot of other things taking up their time) >so someone else took my paperwork and money. I don't know how long it took >to get into their records, but I'm sure it wasn't that week. Also, I had to >file the claim at the County Recorder's office too, so you might check with >them to see if they can find more claims on the mountain. > >Regards, > >Bob Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Wed Aug 9 07:11:06 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Aug 9 07:11:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <44D95116.3040103@tenforward.com> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> <44D93F18.3000401@tenforward.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060808191157.047fe738@orerockon.com> <44D95116.3040103@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060809070608.04483018@orerockon.com> This is not helpful to a rockhound who might want to dig a few crystals from the dirt at Petersen Mtn.: "There are more realities then the one you think you know." This, for example, might be helpful: "There are new, valid claims where rockhounds used to be able to dig freely on BLM land, and here is where they are (even a general description)." Obfuscation is also bad. I am shutting up now. At 08:05 PM 8/8/2006, you wrote: >Tim, > >A shame. As you will. I stand by my comments. There are more >realities then the one you think you know. But your right about one >thing, misinformation is bad! > >My apologies to the list for these public tirades. Please, should >anyone desire, follow up on your own and come to your own >conclusions. But please, do it first hand. We had both BLM and MSHA >inspections while we were on site. With my choices being them, in >person, face to face, or Tim, I'm quite happy with the information >provided by my sources. > >Again, my email address is right here at the top of this email. > >John Cornish > >Tim Fisher wrote: > >>I wasnt flaming anyone. I did check with the BLM, who have exactly 2 >>claims on record in either CA or NV on Petersen Mtn. If they are wrong, >>then they should stop giving out misinformation. I know Foster, and both >>the valid claims are registered under his and Jon's names. I am sure that >>one is the one you did your mining at. I simply suggested that scratching >>in the dirt off the two valid claims might reward someone with some >>crystals to take home. >> >>Inquisition? Come on John, I called the BLM like anyone else could have. >>It took me all of 15 minutes. It's absolutely amazing how the commercial >>types get their hackles a flyin' when someone suggests that rockhounds >>might be able to scratch in the dirt and find some decent material. Tsk >>tsk to you too. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Wed Aug 9 07:13:56 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Aug 9 07:13:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <000001c6bbb6$299db080$93651540@D3JM7W21> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> <000001c6bbb6$299db080$93651540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060809071127.04479c68@orerockon.com> You are absolutely correct Earl. I meant to say "manages" instead of "owns". At 06:17 AM 8/9/2006, you wrote: >Hi Tim (and list), > >Just a quick comment on a previous statement: "That is according to the >BLM, which both owns the land and administers the claims." The BLM owns no >land at all -- it is the federal agency in charge of managing the use of >that land on behalf of the actual owners, the citizens of the United States. >BLM staff are taught to respect that distinction in all of their dealings >with the public and other agencies. > > Cheers- Earl > >----------------------------------- >Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist >Sterling Hill Mining Museum >30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 >973-209-7212 >shmm@sussexonline.com Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Aug 9 07:31:14 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Aug 9 07:31:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] astorite/rhodonite/pyroxmangite Message-ID: <080920061431.23866.44D9F1B100044F3500005D3A216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> As has been noted here to begin with, "astorite" is indeed one of those made-up commercial names. The folks who've been cutting & marketing it have good intentions and aren't really trying to misrepresent anything, but it really is an unnecessary name. When I'd first seen it under this name a couple of years ago, their labelling said that what made it distinctive was that the "rhodonite" is intermixed with several other minerals, particularly, so they say, a bit of helvite, a somewhat uncommon silicate mineral that is yellow-colored. And I put rhodonite in quotation marks here, because--as mineralogists know but most rockhounds still aren't quite familiar with--all of the massive pink material traditionally known as rhodonite from Silverton, is really the closely related, but mineralogically different, mineral (a slightly different composition and different crystal structure), pyroxmangite. This has been known for several decades, based on X-ray diffraction studies of the Sunnyside mine ore deposits, but rhodonite is such a well-known name, and pyroxmangite is such an unfamiliar one and such a mouthful to remember, that many of us "who know better" often just let it go in casual talk and still refer to the material as rhodonite; but we know that's not really what it is. So ditto for the material being called astorite; it's really pyroxmangite, mixed with some other mineral impurities and inclusions. Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from "Kelly Hanson" : -------------- > We bought some of this material two years ago from a gentleman from > Leadville, Colorado. We have made a couple of cabs from it and found it to > undercut on some of the softer area of the stone. However it does reveal > flecks of silver and gold and even some copper type material but the base is > obliviously rhodonite. The cabs are definitely something to work on as they > were very popular at our local rock show where I did demos on cabs. > Kelly and Valerie > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Earl Verbeek > Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 11:21 AM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] astorite > > > > When we where in Silverton,CO. we found a few rocks of what we think is > "Astorite" Is there any place in the Cheyenne,Wy. or Denver,CO. area to get > an appraisal? > > As far as I know, astorite is neither a rock nor a mineral name. Is this > one of those made-up commercial names? Please tell us more about this > material -- what is it? > > Thanks - Earl Verbeek > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bobl at peaktopeak.com Wed Aug 9 08:38:18 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Aug 9 08:38:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060809070405.04470078@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <200608091538.k79FcKo3021708@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Jay said that there were obviously new claim markers, so I was referring to those. Sorry. Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tim Fisher Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 8:06 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! Bob, the 2006 mining that John mentions is in the BLM's database - I checked. These rumors have been circulating for years, not just days, weeks, or months. It doesn't take years for the BLM to enter new, valid claims into their database(s). From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Aug 9 08:44:25 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Aug 9 08:44:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060809070608.04483018@orerockon.com> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> <44D93F18.3000401@tenforward.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060808191157.047fe738@orerockon.com> <44D95116.3040103@tenforward.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060809070608.04483018@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <44DA02D9.8010900@tenforward.com> Back again I see, how sad, Tim, You said, " This is not helpful to a rockhound who might want to dig a few crystals from the dirt at Petersen Mtn.: "There are more realities then the one you think you know." This, for example, might be helpful: "There are new, valid claims where rockhounds used to be able to dig freely on BLM land, and here is where they are (even a general description)." Obfuscation is also bad. I am shutting up now. ". Good, I'm glad your shutting up, what a pain! I wasn't talking to "a rockhound" when I wrote the above, I was writing to a jerk who had attacked my friend and my contribution. A jerk who "knows everything" (nice retraction with Earl too incidentally... :-P :-D ), poo on you Tim! What a shame you choose this path and couldn't have been a nice person and instead had to come out ranting. I stand by my contributions, freely given, your true colors, they sure shine through... " Treat them with respect & they will treat you with their $$", what a guy, nice quote Tim! One more time, my email address is right here at the top of this email. John Cornish PS And thanks to those of you who wrote me off list, obviously I'm not the only one who Tim has ranted with. To my friends, all the very best, John Tim Fisher wrote: > This is not helpful to a rockhound who might want to dig a few > crystals from the dirt at Petersen Mtn.: "There are more realities > then the one you think you know." > > This, for example, might be helpful: "There are new, valid claims > where rockhounds used to be able to dig freely on BLM land, and here > is where they are (even a general description)." > > Obfuscation is also bad. I am shutting up now. > > At 08:05 PM 8/8/2006, you wrote: > >> Tim, >> >> A shame. As you will. I stand by my comments. There are more >> realities then the one you think you know. But your right about one >> thing, misinformation is bad! >> >> My apologies to the list for these public tirades. Please, should >> anyone desire, follow up on your own and come to your own >> conclusions. But please, do it first hand. We had both BLM and MSHA >> inspections while we were on site. With my choices being them, in >> person, face to face, or Tim, I'm quite happy with the information >> provided by my sources. >> >> Again, my email address is right here at the top of this email. >> >> John Cornish >> >> Tim Fisher wrote: >> >>> I wasnt flaming anyone. I did check with the BLM, who have exactly 2 >>> claims on record in either CA or NV on Petersen Mtn. If they are wrong, >>> then they should stop giving out misinformation. I know Foster, and >>> both >>> the valid claims are registered under his and Jon's names. I am sure >>> that >>> one is the one you did your mining at. I simply suggested that >>> scratching >>> in the dirt off the two valid claims might reward someone with some >>> crystals to take home. >>> >>> Inquisition? Come on John, I called the BLM like anyone else could >>> have. >>> It took me all of 15 minutes. It's absolutely amazing how the >>> commercial >>> types get their hackles a flyin' when someone suggests that rockhounds >>> might be able to scratch in the dirt and find some decent material. Tsk >>> tsk to you too. >> > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Aug 9 08:44:42 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Aug 9 08:44:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060809070405.04470078@orerockon.com> References: <000a01c6bb69$d432d860$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <200608090924.k799O93Z026469@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060809070405.04470078@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <44DA02EA.1080700@tenforward.com> Again Tim, more ranting, don't you get embarrassed! How do you know what another does, let alone an entire governmental agency? In fact Bob, your right on, some of the info. available to the general public has not been updated and has even been passed on incorrectly by officials. John Tim Fisher wrote: > Bob, the 2006 mining that John mentions is in the BLM's database - I > checked. These rumors have been circulating for years, not just days, > weeks, or months. It doesn't take years for the BLM to enter new, > valid claims into their database(s). > > At 02:24 AM 8/9/2006, you wrote: > >> I'm sure it takes time to get new claim info into the filing cabinets >> and >> computers. After all, we are talking about a government entity that >> probably doesn't have a full-time person working on mining claim >> paperwork 8 >> hours a day. When I filed my claim in Colorado, the BLM's Mining and >> Claims >> person wasn't there (he/she has a lot of other things taking up their >> time) >> so someone else took my paperwork and money. I don't know how long >> it took >> to get into their records, but I'm sure it wasn't that week. Also, I >> had to >> file the claim at the County Recorder's office too, so you might >> check with >> them to see if they can find more claims on the mountain. >> >> Regards, >> >> Bob > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Aug 9 09:59:34 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Aug 9 09:59:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <44DA02EA.1080700@tenforward.com> References: <000a01c6bb69$d432d860$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <200608090924.k799O93Z026469@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060809070405.04470078@orerockon.com> <44DA02EA.1080700@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608090959i63acbe22jcff9e4e9f608844b@mail.gmail.com> First a disclaimer... I am an Easterner who has no clue about claims and BLM land... Now, since this 'discussion' has cropped up, I got curious and decided to find out what kind of resources the BLM has to identify claims. I found that they have a little app called GeoCommunicator. After doing a little research to find out where Petersen Mountain/Hallelujah Junction was, I pulled up the GeoCommunicator and located where I thought it should be. Then I found that you can make a search for a Place Name, which invalidated all of the my prior research :) The Place Name search did not pull anything for the term 'Petersen Mountain", but did however find a Place Name called 'Hallelujah Junction', so I took a look at it. GeoCommunicator shows that the BLM only has claims shown for the CA side of this area, not the NV side. I assume this to be an error with the BLM, since I have read about claims on the NV side. Another thing that I noticed was that specimens that are supposedly from Hallelujah Junction list Plumas Co., but on the GeoCommunicator, it shows the claims to be in Lassen Co. instead. Have the county borders recently changed, or is the Hallelujah Junction area cover both Plumas and Lassen Co.? So my final question is, how in the world do you know if you are claim-jumping, if the BLM doesn't have updated information? What stops people from posting "fake" claims just to keep people off the land? Drew On 8/9/06, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > > Again Tim, more ranting, don't you get embarrassed! How do you know what > another does, let alone an entire governmental agency? > > In fact Bob, your right on, some of the info. available to the general > public has not been updated and has even been passed on incorrectly by > officials. > > John > > Tim Fisher wrote: > > > Bob, the 2006 mining that John mentions is in the BLM's database - I > > checked. These rumors have been circulating for years, not just days, > > weeks, or months. It doesn't take years for the BLM to enter new, > > valid claims into their database(s). > > > > At 02:24 AM 8/9/2006, you wrote: > > > >> I'm sure it takes time to get new claim info into the filing cabinets > >> and > >> computers. After all, we are talking about a government entity that > >> probably doesn't have a full-time person working on mining claim > >> paperwork 8 > >> hours a day. When I filed my claim in Colorado, the BLM's Mining and > >> Claims > >> person wasn't there (he/she has a lot of other things taking up their > >> time) > >> so someone else took my paperwork and money. I don't know how long > >> it took > >> to get into their records, but I'm sure it wasn't that week. Also, I > >> had to > >> file the claim at the County Recorder's office too, so you might > >> check with > >> them to see if they can find more claims on the mountain. > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Bob > > > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Wed Aug 9 11:04:50 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Aug 9 11:04:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <44DA02D9.8010900@tenforward.com> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> <44D93F18.3000401@tenforward.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060808191157.047fe738@orerockon.com> <44D95116.3040103@tenforward.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060809070608.04483018@orerockon.com> <44DA02D9.8010900@tenforward.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 08:44:25 -0700, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: >Back again I see, how sad, Tim, > >You said, " This is not helpful to a rockhound who might want to dig a >few crystals from the dirt at Petersen Mtn.: "There are more realities >then the one you think you know." > >This, for example, might be helpful: "There are new, valid claims where >rockhounds used to be able to dig freely on BLM land, and here is where >they are (even a general description)." > >Obfuscation is also bad. I am shutting up now. ". > >Good, I'm glad your shutting up, what a pain! I wasn't talking to "a >rockhound" when I wrote the above, I was writing to a jerk who had >attacked my friend and my contribution. Well, actually, you were talking to a whole bunch of rockhounds, and IMO, Tim's example of what might be helpful information is a perfectly good one. If you really want only to talk to someone you characterize as > A jerk who "knows everything" you know his email address. OTOH, if you really have more helpful information, I'm sure we'd all like to hear it. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Wed Aug 9 11:25:55 2006 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Wed Aug 9 11:26:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> <44D93F18.3000401@tenforward.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060808191157.047fe738@orerockon.com> <44D95116.3040103@tenforward.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060809070608.04483018@orerockon.com> <44DA02D9.8010900@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <44DA28B3.2020201@azgs.az.gov> gee guys, John Cornish is an alright guy. He has been very helpful to this whole community. It wasn't his website that said the whole mountain was claimed. Tim's comments were relatively respectful and I don't think they were meant to start a war. can't we all just get along??? Al Balmer wrote: On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 08:44:25 -0700, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: Back again I see, how sad, Tim, A jerk who "knows everything" -- rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Aug 9 11:34:06 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Aug 9 11:34:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! In-Reply-To: <44DA28B3.2020201@azgs.az.gov> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com> <44D93F18.3000401@tenforward.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060808191157.047fe738@orerockon.com> <44D95116.3040103@tenforward.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060809070608.04483018@orerockon.com> <44DA02D9.8010900@tenforward.com> <44DA28B3.2020201@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: I've been wondering where our hair trigger moderators are, and why they haven't pulled the plug on this. It's getting to the 'swords at dawn' stage.... BK On 8/9/06, Richard Trapp wrote: > > > > > > > > gee guys, John Cornish is an alright guy. He has been very helpful to > this whole community. It wasn't his website that said the whole > mountain was claimed. > > > > Tim's comments were relatively respectful and I don't think they were > meant to start a war. > > > > can't we all just get along??? > > > > > > > > Al Balmer wrote: > > > On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 08:44:25 -0700, John and Gloria Cornish > wrote: > > > > Back again I see, how sad, Tim, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A jerk who "knows everything" > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tnd at eotnet.net Tue Aug 8 19:49:20 2006 From: tnd at eotnet.net (Dave Mabbott) Date: Wed Aug 9 11:36:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digging areas Message-ID: <000101c6bb5f$936254a0$0207a8c0@davemabbott> Hi, just saw you name on a site. My family has been planning a trip to Emerald creek for some good old fashioned garnet hunting but alas, it is still down. Is there anywhere in that area that we could pay and have a good rock hunting time? Thanks, Dave --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Aug 9 11:57:59 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Aug 9 12:13:10 2006 Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060808160607.047fc550@orerockon.com><44D93F18.3000401@tenforward.com><7.0.0.16.2.20060808191157.047fe738@orerockon.com><44D95116.3040103@tenforward.com><7.0.0.16.2.20060809070608.04483018@orerockon.com><44DA02D9.8010900@tenforward.com><44DA28B3.2020201@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <00ae01c6bbe5$c0b8a8b0$0200a8c0@warren> lol - Well, Bryan - if we jump in, people say "Why are you jumping in?" and call us hair trigger moderators, and if we don't people say "Why aren't you jumping in?" Most of the time, I don't moderate the list unless someone sends me a complaint e-mail asking me to. Generally, I prefer a personal one, rather than one to the list. I'm online about 12-14 hours per day, most days. Lately you guys have been pretty good at moderating yourselves (thanks, Richard). If you would rather we moderate more, please let us know. In the meantime, if you guys want to discuss BLM claims, fine, but please keep the personal comments out of it. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah JunctionAdventure! > I've been wondering where our hair trigger moderators are, and why they > haven't pulled the plug on this. It's getting to the 'swords at dawn' > stage.... > > BK > > > On 8/9/06, Richard Trapp wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> gee guys, John Cornish is an alright guy. He has been very helpful to >> this whole community. It wasn't his website that said the whole >> mountain was claimed. >> >> >> >> Tim's comments were relatively respectful and I don't think they were >> meant to start a war. >> >> >> >> can't we all just get along??? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Al Balmer wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 08:44:25 -0700, John and Gloria Cornish >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Back again I see, how sad, Tim, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> A jerk who "knows everything" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> text/html (html body -- converted) >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tim at orerockon.com Wed Aug 9 12:28:05 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Aug 9 12:28:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digging areas In-Reply-To: <000101c6bb5f$936254a0$0207a8c0@davemabbott> References: <000101c6bb5f$936254a0$0207a8c0@davemabbott> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060809122504.04a55a40@orerockon.com> AFAIK, no, there isn't. For leaf fossils, you can dig the Clarkia Bowl site just south of town for a small fee, but I don't know of anywhere to fee dig garnets besides the FS operation, and the FS keeps an eye on the more well-known garnet locations in the area, which are off-limits to digging. At 07:49 PM 8/8/2006, you wrote: >Hi, just saw you name on a site. My family has been planning a trip >to Emerald creek for some good old fashioned garnet hunting but >alas, it is still down. Is there anywhere in that area that we >could pay and have a good rock hunting time? Thanks, Dave Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Aug 9 12:56:29 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Aug 9 12:55:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digging areas In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060809122504.04a55a40@orerockon.com> References: <000101c6bb5f$936254a0$0207a8c0@davemabbott> <7.0.0.16.2.20060809122504.04a55a40@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <44DA3DED.5090301@verizon.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > AFAIK, no, there isn't. For leaf fossils, you can dig the Clarkia Bowl > site just south of town for a small fee I would have to agree. While Idaho is "the gem state," as Lanny says, it's a big state, and except for the star garnets, the gems ain't in this region. Some of us on the list have been exploring known sites and staying ahead of the Forest Service's path of destruction (i.e., remediation and decommissioning of roads and sites), and while we've had fun and obtained some nice samples, I have not found anywhere among the 30 sites I've visited, except Emerald Creek and Fossil Bowl, that I would say is a good place to make a trip. I have heard tales of this or that place where you might find some crystals of various species, but I have never seen any of these places myself and these stories are from old-timers who say "it may be grown over now" or "that's in a farmer's field." There are some folks around here who do lapidary, but I haven't met many folks into mineral collecting; and I would suspect that since the bulk of work around here is either farming or lumber, a lot of people don't have the time for it. Best, Don From Tourmalineminer at aol.com Wed Aug 9 14:48:42 2006 From: Tourmalineminer at aol.com (Tourmalineminer@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 9 14:48:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Peterson Mountain Message-ID: <550.4f69e80.320bb23a@aol.com> Tim, you need to check your facts before you say there are no claims on the West side of Peterson Mountain. In fact, Scott Klein is correct that the entire hill is claimed. You are completely out of control wrong saying there are only two active claims in the entire area both owned by Foster Hallman. I personally own two claims on the Western side of Peterson Mountain. These claims go back to 2/15/95. They are called Purple Tips and Purple Tips placer. Their BLM mining claim serial numbers are 265538 and 265539 respectively. These claims have been actively maintained every year with the BLM. In fact, I just paid the claim fees for this year on them yesterday. The BLM records list them as "active" claims in their records. Additionally, there is another claim on the California, western side of the mountain owned by Richard Banks. His BLM claim No. is 195443. To clear up another tidbit of misinformation. Foster Hallman who is a friend of mine, only has one claim. The other claim on the Nevada side is owned by Jon Christianson. My claims are immediately contiguous with these two claims. My claims are where most of the people that go up there end up digging. Tim......its not cool to tell people its ok to dig on my claims without my permission. That is mineral trespass. However, it has been and currently is my policy to allow people to dig there for free if they obtain permission from me. Please, next time, do some research. Chris Rose --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Tourmalineminer at aol.com Wed Aug 9 15:51:41 2006 From: Tourmalineminer at aol.com (Tourmalineminer@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 9 15:51:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Peterson Peak Message-ID: Oops........one correction to my previous post. I said Jon Christianson owned the claim next to Foster Hallman and my claims. I meant to say Jon Johnson. Chris Rose --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Aug 9 16:01:23 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Aug 9 16:00:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Peterson Peak References: Message-ID: <000b01c6bc07$d3b0a540$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Thanks Chris for clarifying the situation. Does anyone know how to check the records without going to the courthouse or BLM and physically checking the records? Apparently you can be lead astray otherwise. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 3:51 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Peterson Peak > Oops........one correction to my previous post. I said Jon Christianson > owned the claim next to Foster Hallman and my claims. I meant to say Jon Johnson. > > Chris Rose > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jr50wv at yahoo.com Wed Aug 9 16:03:01 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Wed Aug 9 16:03:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Manners Message-ID: <20060809230301.55592.qmail@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: I've been using email (and older related technologies) for many years now. It is really easy to be misunderstood when writing email, as it seems like an intimate and conversational communication, but in reality those you converse with are far away and remote. This means you miss out on all the cues that go along with oral conversation, face to face, or even the tone of voice that accompanies conversation on the phone. I have had short email conversations with folks just a hundred yards away that almost instantly descended into acidic invective, to my humiliation, in retrospect, for participating. Our parents taught us manners, and we know how to use them face to face, or on the phone. People from different cultures learn slightly different manners. I've recently had the privilage of working with extremely bright folks from South Asia, the South Pacific and South America. Many of them had just landed in the US, and some with little more than the clothes on their backs, just like our great, g-, g- grandparents did. Their manners were different from the ones we were used to, but by being willing to assume the best about each other, rather than the worst, we learned how to get along and participate on team projects that really needed us to be members of a team. Folks, just because you're using a new medium to communicate, don't forget what your folks and neighbors taught you. Treat others as you hope they will treat you. It is so easy to be misunderstood in email, especially when you're reacting emotionally to something already misunderstood... I know John Cornish, and he is a nice guy, a really nice guy, who works really hard to share his mineral discoveries with others. I've enjoyed meeting and talking with him, both face-to-face and on the 'Net. Tim, I'm sure, is a nice guy, with many friends who respect him, and I'm sure he mostly deserves their respect, just like John does. Now, shake hands and come out fighting...wait....wait....joke alert... ;-) I'm a pacifist, mostly, and don't really want you guys to even be upset with one another. What if one of you is hurt on that border mountain, and needs help? Then what? Make up now and play nice, just in case! Obviously there are a lot of inconsistencies within BLM's claims data. No surprise, BLM is part of the Dept of the Interior, which has famously bad information technology, so bad that federal judges have ordered their IT network totally disconnected from the Internet, because important systems tracking billions of $$ were not protected, at all, from black-hat hackers. So don't go betting the house on BLM data of the electronic kind, because it won't look so good compared to the facts on the ground. Keep on Rockin' JR in WV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From llbullbull at hotmail.com Wed Aug 9 16:08:36 2006 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Wed Aug 9 16:08:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Manners In-Reply-To: <20060809230301.55592.qmail@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello: Thank you J.R for some common sense and the reminder. Take care, Larry Bull >From: "J. R. Hodel" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] Manners >Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 16:03:01 -0700 (PDT) > >Hi: > >I've been using email (and older related technologies) for many years now. > >It is really easy to be misunderstood when writing email, as it seems like >an intimate and conversational communication, but in reality those you >converse with are far away and remote. This means you miss out on all the >cues that go along with oral conversation, face to face, or even the tone >of voice that accompanies conversation on the phone. > >I have had short email conversations with folks just a hundred yards away >that almost instantly descended into acidic invective, to my humiliation, >in retrospect, for participating. > >Our parents taught us manners, and we know how to use them face to face, or >on the phone. People from different cultures learn slightly different >manners. I've recently had the privilage of working with extremely bright >folks from South Asia, the South Pacific and South America. Many of them >had just landed in the US, and some with little more than the clothes on >their backs, just like our great, g-, g- grandparents did. > >Their manners were different from the ones we were used to, but by being >willing to assume the best about each other, rather than the worst, we >learned how to get along and participate on team projects that really >needed us to be members of a team. > >Folks, just because you're using a new medium to communicate, don't forget >what your folks and neighbors taught you. Treat others as you hope they >will treat you. It is so easy to be misunderstood in email, especially >when you're reacting emotionally to something already misunderstood... > >I know John Cornish, and he is a nice guy, a really nice guy, who works >really hard to share his mineral discoveries with others. I've enjoyed >meeting and talking with him, both face-to-face and on the 'Net. > >Tim, I'm sure, is a nice guy, with many friends who respect him, and I'm >sure he mostly deserves their respect, just like John does. > >Now, shake hands and come out fighting...wait....wait....joke alert... ;-) > >I'm a pacifist, mostly, and don't really want you guys to even be upset >with one another. What if one of you is hurt on that border mountain, and >needs help? Then what? Make up now and play nice, just in case! > >Obviously there are a lot of inconsistencies within BLM's claims data. No >surprise, BLM is part of the Dept of the Interior, which has famously bad >information technology, so bad that federal judges have ordered their IT >network totally disconnected from the Internet, because important systems >tracking billions of $$ were not protected, at all, from black-hat hackers. > >So don't go betting the house on BLM data of the electronic kind, because >it won't look so good compared to the facts on the ground. > >Keep on Rockin' > >JR in WV > > > > > > __________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Aug 9 16:42:55 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Aug 9 16:42:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Peterson Peak NOW: using BLM In-Reply-To: <000b01c6bc07$d3b0a540$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <000b01c6bc07$d3b0a540$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <44DA72FF.2060001@verizon.net> jaybates wrote: > Thanks Chris for clarifying the situation. Does anyone know how to check the > records without going to the courthouse or BLM and physically checking the > records? Apparently you can be lead astray otherwise. I think every state handles its own BLM office differently. I remember being impressed with Arizona's BLM when I lived there and dealt with them, but so far I haven't been impressed when I've called Idaho BLM and talked to them. It would be nice if our gov't spent some money on developing a federal, universal on-line mapping system into which you could enter lat/long, UTM, or even township & range coordiates, and it would tell you who or what owns, claims, has patented, or administers the land and the contact info. The basis for this system already exists and the logic for that query is simple enough to be programmed by any college comp sci student. However I think that getting all that data all in one place and keeping it current is the real tedious part. Still, if people want to direct their energy to something useful, you can take 10 minutes to write a letter to your congressperson to look into doing that project. Heck, I just heard on the Internet radio (either BBC or NPR) that, the next time the feds do a census, the census takers will be using a GPS to mark the coordinates at your front door. So that's a start to getting this sort of information computerized. Now that I live in a BLM state where people actually care about multiple shared land use, I might just put my money where my mouth is and do just that. Don From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Wed Aug 9 17:49:27 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Wed Aug 9 17:49:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Manners In-Reply-To: <20060809230301.55592.qmail@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060809230301.55592.qmail@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44DA8297.4080005@tenforward.com> Hi J.R., Thank you for a calm voice, it is appreciated. Tim, My calling you a name was not right, I apologize. J.R., Thanks again for the kind words. All the very best, John J. R. Hodel wrote: >Hi: > >I've been using email (and older related technologies) for many years now. > >It is really easy to be misunderstood when writing email, as it seems like an intimate and conversational communication, but in reality those you converse with are far away and remote. This means you miss out on all the cues that go along with oral conversation, face to face, or even the tone of voice that accompanies conversation on the phone. > >I have had short email conversations with folks just a hundred yards away that almost instantly descended into acidic invective, to my humiliation, in retrospect, for participating. > >Our parents taught us manners, and we know how to use them face to face, or on the phone. People from different cultures learn slightly different manners. I've recently had the privilage of working with extremely bright folks from South Asia, the South Pacific and South America. Many of them had just landed in the US, and some with little more than the clothes on their backs, just like our great, g-, g- grandparents did. > >Their manners were different from the ones we were used to, but by being willing to assume the best about each other, rather than the worst, we learned how to get along and participate on team projects that really needed us to be members of a team. > >Folks, just because you're using a new medium to communicate, don't forget what your folks and neighbors taught you. Treat others as you hope they will treat you. It is so easy to be misunderstood in email, especially when you're reacting emotionally to something already misunderstood... > >I know John Cornish, and he is a nice guy, a really nice guy, who works really hard to share his mineral discoveries with others. I've enjoyed meeting and talking with him, both face-to-face and on the 'Net. > >Tim, I'm sure, is a nice guy, with many friends who respect him, and I'm sure he mostly deserves their respect, just like John does. > >Now, shake hands and come out fighting...wait....wait....joke alert... ;-) > >I'm a pacifist, mostly, and don't really want you guys to even be upset with one another. What if one of you is hurt on that border mountain, and needs help? Then what? Make up now and play nice, just in case! > >Obviously there are a lot of inconsistencies within BLM's claims data. No surprise, BLM is part of the Dept of the Interior, which has famously bad information technology, so bad that federal judges have ordered their IT network totally disconnected from the Internet, because important systems tracking billions of $$ were not protected, at all, from black-hat hackers. > >So don't go betting the house on BLM data of the electronic kind, because it won't look so good compared to the facts on the ground. > >Keep on Rockin' > >JR in WV > > > > > > __________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- > > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Aug 9 18:28:36 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Aug 9 18:28:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah Junction Adventure! References: <44D8AA21.4000305@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <006201c6bc1c$4f1f8610$6501a8c0@CMC3101861A> Wow, WOW, and TRIPLE WOW!!! I couldn't have imagined a mountain full of amethyst until I saw the pictures. Wish I were there....for a couple of days at least. Jeanette > Hi Everyone, > > Well, here it is. This is the link... > > http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Collecting%20Reports/Petersen%20Mnt%20June,%202006/Peterson%20Mountain%20Commercial%20Dig%20June%20July%202006.htm > > .. that will take you to the first telling of our big Petersen Mountain/ > Hallelujah Junction quartz dig. I've yet to write and post my version, but > his will definitely give you a feel for the fun! I very much hope you > enjoy! All the very best, > > John > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Aug 9 21:23:04 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Aug 9 21:23:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography References: <20060809230301.55592.qmail@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00c601c6bc34$aea8b0d0$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> Getting back to rock discussions...... I need a good in depth explanation of how the different colors form in tourmaline crystals. What makes the colors, and how? And I don't need the grammer school version, more like the Master's or PhD version. Also can somebody give me the link to the 3D models of crystals, the ones you can rotate online? Jeanette From ajs at frii.com Wed Aug 9 21:38:57 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Wed Aug 9 21:39:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] re: (BLM land claims, database) In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608090959i63acbe22jcff9e4e9f608844b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060810043857.8734C4D493@io.frii.com> > ...how in the world do you know if you are claim-jumping, if the BLM > doesn't have updated information? What stops people from posting > "fake" claims just to keep people off the land? Good questions. A few months ago I visited the Twin Mountains, CO geode site -- I would call it just an agate site, since I only saw broken chunks. I saw a few claim corner posts with no associated info (such as a legal description in a bag), tried to avoid whatever seemed to be within a claim, and had fun. Came home, found the BLM website, was able to confirm there are some active claims in the general area -- but that's it. All the maps showed were large rectangles from which you could obtain some claim data but nothing showing exactly where they are located. Next time I go there, I would like to have a good idea of exactly where are the active claims, so I can avoid them. Hence I figured sometime I would visit the BLM in Denver (60 miles away) when they are open, and do a little personal research. I'd call them, but when I called a few years ago about something else, they were unfriendly and indicated that asking them to do a "records search" remotely would cost $$. As I understand it, a mining claim is like a patent: It doesn't really do anything for you directly, but it gives you a more solid argument for civil legal action (either suing or defending yourself). The BLM doesn't prevent recording of overlapping claims, I heard, any more than the patent office guarantees your patent claims are defensible. Accurate, or not? Thanks, Alan Silverstein From efkern at earthlink.net Wed Aug 9 21:42:03 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Wed Aug 9 21:41:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography References: <20060809230301.55592.qmail@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <00c601c6bc34$aea8b0d0$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <000301c6bc37$544a0c80$2cfcf604@TheBlackAdder> Try Googling George Rossman (PhD). He gave a talk at our club last year on this subject, and showed slides with charts of the whole tourmaline family with the combinations of trace elements that impart color. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography Getting back to rock discussions...... I need a good in depth explanation of how the different colors form in tourmaline crystals. What makes the colors, and how? And I don't need the grammer school version, more like the Master's or PhD version. Also can somebody give me the link to the 3D models of crystals, the ones you can rotate online? Jeanette -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From cjkuo at verizon.net Wed Aug 9 23:19:12 2006 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Wed Aug 9 23:19:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography References: <20060809230301.55592.qmail@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <00c601c6bc34$aea8b0d0$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> <000301c6bc37$544a0c80$2cfcf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <012301c6bc44$e65620c0$aa01a8c0@PENTIUM43GHz> Definitely! Absolutely! Prof. Rossman, Caltech. Person for which Rossmanite is named after. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erich Kern" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography > > > Try Googling George Rossman (PhD). He gave a talk at our club last year on > this subject, and > showed slides with charts of the whole tourmaline family with the > combinations of trace elements > that impart color. > > Erich > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeanette Wimpee" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 9:23 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography > > > Getting back to rock discussions...... > I need a good in depth explanation of how the different colors form in > tourmaline crystals. What makes the colors, and how? And I don't need the > grammer school version, more like the Master's or PhD version. > Also can somebody give me the link to the 3D models of crystals, the ones > you can rotate online? > Jeanette > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From magnet at crocoite.com Thu Aug 10 06:08:39 2006 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Thu Aug 10 06:08:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography Message-ID: <20060810130839.7919.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi Jeanette There is a pdf thesis by Brian Giller available at etd-db.uno.edu/theses/submitted/etd-05062003-151714/unrestricted/2003_05_ms_giller_brian.pdf that may have the info on colour that you are after. It's about 1.5Mb in size. I've just checked the site and it's timing out. I have a copy that I can send directly to you if you need it. Regards Steve > -------Original Message------- > From: Jeanette Wimpee > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography > Sent: 09 Aug '06 18:23 > > Getting back to rock discussions...... > I need a good in depth explanation of how the different colors form in > tourmaline crystals. What makes the colors, and how? And I don't need the > grammer school version, more like the Master's or PhD version. > Jeanette From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Thu Aug 10 07:05:34 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Aug 10 07:05:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography References: <20060809230301.55592.qmail@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <00c601c6bc34$aea8b0d0$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <003b01c6bc86$0cf1f1a0$7a941b4b@LarryRush> Jeanette: If you can, get a copy of "The Tourmaline Group", by Richard Dietrich, 1985, published by Van Nostrand. (Hardback, 300 pages) I think it is still in print. Although it is quite technical in parts, it is a very comprehensive treatise on tourmaline, the best I have seen. If you can't find it, let me know and I can scan and send you the relevant pages you want. Larry Rush =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography > Getting back to rock discussions...... > I need a good in depth explanation of how the different colors form in > tourmaline crystals. What makes the colors, and how? And I don't need the > grammer school version, more like the Master's or PhD version. > Also can somebody give me the link to the 3D models of crystals, the ones > you can rotate online? > Jeanette > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Aug 10 07:52:57 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Aug 10 07:52:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography In-Reply-To: <00c601c6bc34$aea8b0d0$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <20060809230301.55592.qmail@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <00c601c6bc34$aea8b0d0$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <44DB4849.8070506@tenforward.com> Hi Jeanette, Maybe this website will help (I hope so), all the best, John http://www.trinityminerals.com/balan/cosmos.html Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Getting back to rock discussions...... > I need a good in depth explanation of how the different colors form in > tourmaline crystals. What makes the colors, and how? And I don't need > the grammer school version, more like the Master's or PhD version. > Also can somebody give me the link to the 3D models of crystals, the > ones you can rotate online? > Jeanette From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Thu Aug 10 08:27:19 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Thu Aug 10 08:27:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / Hallelujah Junction Adventure! In-Reply-To: <006201c6bc1c$4f1f8610$6501a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <44D8AA21.4000305@tenforward.com> <006201c6bc1c$4f1f8610$6501a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <44DB5057.2050009@tenforward.com> Hi Jeanette, Thank you for writing, your kindness is appreciated very much. All the very best, John Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Wow, WOW, and TRIPLE WOW!!! > I couldn't have imagined a mountain full of amethyst until I saw the > pictures. Wish I were there....for a couple of days at least. > Jeanette > > > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> Well, here it is. This is the link... >> >> http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Collecting%20Reports/Petersen%20Mnt%20June,%202006/Peterson%20Mountain%20Commercial%20Dig%20June%20July%202006.htm >> >> >> .. that will take you to the first telling of our big Petersen >> Mountain/ Hallelujah Junction quartz dig. I've yet to write and post >> my version, but his will definitely give you a feel for the fun! I >> very much hope you enjoy! All the very best, >> >> John >> > From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Aug 10 09:50:31 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Aug 10 09:50:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / HallelujahJunction Adventure! In-Reply-To: <44DB5057.2050009@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <200608101650.k7AGoW9D008357@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I agree with Jeanette. Those amethyst crystals are awesome and I love all of the pictures with narratives. They really tell the story. Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John and Gloria Cornish Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:27 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / HallelujahJunction Adventure! Hi Jeanette, Thank you for writing, your kindness is appreciated very much. All the very best, John Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Wow, WOW, and TRIPLE WOW!!! > I couldn't have imagined a mountain full of amethyst until I saw the > pictures. Wish I were there....for a couple of days at least. > Jeanette > > > >> Hi Everyone, >> >> Well, here it is. This is the link... >> >> http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Collecting%20Reports/Petersen%20Mnt%20June ,%202006/Peterson%20Mountain%20Commercial%20Dig%20June%20July%202006.htm >> >> >> .. that will take you to the first telling of our big Petersen >> Mountain/ Hallelujah Junction quartz dig. I've yet to write and post >> my version, but his will definitely give you a feel for the fun! I >> very much hope you enjoy! All the very best, >> >> John >> > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Aug 10 11:34:23 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Aug 10 11:34:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <20060810043857.8734C4D493@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <200608101834.k7AIYOFP016923@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi all, The website for GeoCommunicator is: http://www.geocommunicator.gov/NILS-PARCEL2/map.jsp?MAP=MC It accesses the BLM LR2000 database which used to be online but they removed access to it last year or the year before. GeoCommunicator is new but I don't know when it went online. As Alan mentioned, it shows rectangles around the general area where claims are located, but not around the actual claims themselves. They do have some searching features, so you can search on stuff like: claim name, case id, claim serial number, disposition (active or closed), claim type (lode, placer, mill or tunnel), date of location, date of recordation, township, range, state, meridian, and place names. But since it doesn't show where the claims are located, it really isn't as useful as it could be. Maybe it does show claim locations for some claims, but the one I looked up (my claim) might not be fully in their system yet, even though I filed the paperwork last December. Although, my claim IS in their system because I can pull up a small report about it. Maybe they just need to add coordinates to the db for it??? I don't know. Just guessing. :-) If you go to the BLM or county offices, you should be able to pull up the actual boundary info on their computers. That's what I did when recording my claim. It's too bad that isn't available online, but it wasn't user friendly. Alan's last paragraph is true. Many mining claims overlap each other. The BLM and counties don't care about them. They basically record the information and then forget about it. It isn't their responsibility to make sure that a claim owner is abiding by the laws or even claiming a valid, claimable area of land. Recording them just gives a firm basis of who claimed which parcel of land first, and whether they have been paying to keep the claim active, just in case there is a lawsuit. Regards, Bob From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Aug 10 11:47:15 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Aug 10 11:47:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <200608101834.k7AIYOFP016923@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <20060810043857.8734C4D493@io.frii.com> <200608101834.k7AIYOFP016923@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608101147y11f83866j7d6da7fe13f1d12b@mail.gmail.com> So claiming is still Wild West style, eh? Sounds very confusing to me, esp. because I have never seen a claim! Drew On 8/10/06, Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Hi all, > > The website for GeoCommunicator is: > > http://www.geocommunicator.gov/NILS-PARCEL2/map.jsp?MAP=MC > > It accesses the BLM LR2000 database which used to be online but they > removed > access to it last year or the year before. GeoCommunicator is new but I > don't know when it went online. > > As Alan mentioned, it shows rectangles around the general area where > claims > are located, but not around the actual claims themselves. They do have > some > searching features, so you can search on stuff like: claim name, case id, > claim serial number, disposition (active or closed), claim type (lode, > placer, mill or tunnel), date of location, date of recordation, township, > range, state, meridian, and place names. But since it doesn't show where > the claims are located, it really isn't as useful as it could be. Maybe > it > does show claim locations for some claims, but the one I looked up (my > claim) might not be fully in their system yet, even though I filed the > paperwork last December. Although, my claim IS in their system because I > can pull up a small report about it. Maybe they just need to add > coordinates > to the db for it??? I don't know. Just guessing. :-) > > If you go to the BLM or county offices, you should be able to pull up the > actual boundary info on their computers. That's what I did when recording > my claim. It's too bad that isn't available online, but it wasn't user > friendly. > > Alan's last paragraph is true. Many mining claims overlap each > other. The > BLM and counties don't care about them. They basically record the > information and then forget about it. It isn't their responsibility to > make > sure that a claim owner is abiding by the laws or even claiming a valid, > claimable area of land. Recording them just gives a firm basis of who > claimed which parcel of land first, and whether they have been paying to > keep the claim active, just in case there is a lawsuit. > > Regards, > > Bob > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 10 12:21:15 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 10 12:20:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608101147y11f83866j7d6da7fe13f1d12b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060810043857.8734C4D493@io.frii.com> <200608101834.k7AIYOFP016923@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7aac8040608101147y11f83866j7d6da7fe13f1d12b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> Drew wrote: > So claiming is still Wild West style, eh? Sounds very confusing to me, > esp. > because I have never seen a claim! Well in my opinion the system is indeed a holdover from the wild west days; the BLM in some states still wants your claim locality registered in the township & range system, when it would make far more sense to report the corners and center of the claim boundary in UTM coordinates, with digital photos optional but encouraged. The whole idea is that the BLM staff should be able to go out and find your claim and check it out, and we have far easier ways to do that now than ever before. I really do want to make that job easier. While I'm on my soapbox again, it would also be neat if they had a computer system into which new claims were entered; doing a little simple math that someone could write in a few minutes (using the UTM system anyway), the system could find overlapping or conflicting valid claims and say WARNING! CLAIM JUMP! or some such thing warranting further investigation. It would also bring up a map showing rectangles with all claims nearby. Even if not overlapping, there might be potential trouble if someone is really planning to mine a locatable commercial resource (vs. the hobby mining a lot of us are really talking about) there might be a clash when a miner follows an ore body and it runs into another claim. There isn't much to see, depending on the claim; maybe a few corner markers and a center monument, with claim forms in a waterproof container; depending how much it is being worked, you may see diggings; equipment, both functional and vandalized; maybe a shaft opening or adits; some signs; maybe a powder magazine. Since land is multi-use, including for cattle grazing, you can't really do much to keep people physically off the claim. You don't have any rights to the land itself, only certain rights to certain mineral resources. If I'm not mistaken--and my memory might be out of touch here--people can surface collect anything sitting on top. My friend in Arizona finds people digging on his claim all the time. I think he learned a lesson about writing articles that include the real name of the claim and the exact coordinates with a map. Even though the system is antiquated, I like the idea. It harkens back to the days when America was America, you could go out and "stake your claim" and take your own chances; you could go bust or make out well, but there was little standing in your way except a few rules and the chance that someone else got there first. Best, Don From totis99 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 10 14:49:24 2006 From: totis99 at yahoo.com (teresa otis) Date: Thu Aug 10 14:49:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20060810214924.64268.qmail@web36704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I don't know as much about this as my other half, but we're involved in one that seems to apply all the concepts you mentioned Don. File claim with BLM, record in county using the section township range system.....ready to rock and roll. oh but wait, National Forest Service needs/requires GPS coordinates because of a 100 year old energy company maybe, maybe declared an eco zone (eco didn't even exist in the vocabulary back then in the context it means now LOL).....well no wait, the GPS isn't good enough, get some pictures of your markers tied in with GPS....oh wait, now that you have done that we will need to use our (National Forest Service) GPS to see if that's what you say it is......and it's on BLM land ..... oh wait, we (NFS) appear to have a protected location in that area so you may need to prove if it is to close to the location. Where's the location? Um, well just do what we need and we'll figure that out and let you know. Yes, it is still the old west here in Arizona and all tied up in red tape from half a dozen federal agencies that don't compare information and sometimes rely on current GPS information that has been blended and combined with location pre-GPS information from the days miners and landowners lied about exact locations....accuracy?? not even. If we were a multimillion dollar company would these problems come up with the claim? probably not. *sigh* Teresa Otis __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Aug 10 17:20:31 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Aug 10 17:20:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USGS request for rock and mineral photos Message-ID: <081120060020.16395.44DBCD4F00002DA40000400B216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear friends and colleagues, People often request, from us at the U.S. Geological Survey, photographs of rocks or minerals that they would like to use in exhibits, web pages, brochures, magazines, books, etc. Although most people would assume that we are "a prime source" for such images and that we would have a large stock file of them, in fact we do not, at least not for most minerals. Colleen Allen, with the USGS Photo Library in Denver, has been trying to expand our collection of available rock and mineral photo images, by scanning in existing photographs in USGS files and trying to acquire new ones. At present we can certainly supply untold numbers of photographs of sandstone and basalt in various forms, but we are hard pressed when someone asks us if we have any photographs they can use of tetrahedrite, lamproite, or clinoptilolite (or even decent photographs of such common things as pyrite, amethyst, or dolomite). Many of you who are rockhounds and mineral collectors have large files of reasonably good photographs of common, or rare, rocks and minerals. If anyone would like to donate a copy of any (even a few) of your photographs to the USGS photo library, your help would be very much appreciated. We can use photographs of: attractive mineral specimens "typical" examples of minerals and rocks petrographic photographs of rock types or of specific minerals in thin section Copies of any images you might care to volunteer would be added to the USGS photo database and would be accessible to anyone on our USGS Photographic Library website, http://libraryphoto.cr.usgs.gov/ Your name would be posted there as credit for providing the photo, but the photo would be public domain, so that anyone could download and use it at no charge. So, your reward would be helping people out, and getting a small credit line for doing it by providing your photo. Colleen can use either digital or hard copy (print or slide) images; for digital images, she'd like high-resolution images, not just "thumbnails". If you have questions about what we would like, please see what is posted on that webpage, http://libraryphoto.cr.usgs.gov/, or best, please contact Colleen directly: Colleen Allen, USGS Photo Archive, Denver CO, ceallen@usgs.gov 303-236-1010 We don't necessarily expect anyone to contribute their entire collection of photos, but as I said above, even a few would be useful! Thank you very much for considering helping us with this, Pete Modreski ****************************************** Peter J. Modreski U.S. Geological Survey, Denver, Colorado Central Region Office of Communications Public Relations and Educational Outreach Geochemist and Geologic Specialist for Abrasives, Gemstones, Quartz, Beryllium, Cesium, and Rubidium USGS, Mail Stop 150 Box 25046, Federal Center Denver, CO 80225-0046 tel. 303-202-4766, fax 303-202-4767 email pmodreski@usgs.gov SCIENCE FOR A CHANGING WORLD http://www.usgs.gov http://ask.usgs.gov ****************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Thu Aug 10 18:09:28 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Aug 10 18:09:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608101147y11f83866j7d6da7fe13f1d12b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20060811010928.20D104D494@io.frii.com> > So claiming is still Wild West style, eh? Sounds very confusing to > me, esp. because I have never seen a claim! I'm sure I've seen some, but I've been underwhelmed by them. :-) When I read fictional accounts of someone staking a claim, it describes them leaving information about the extent of the claim at each post. I've never seen that, just posts of various sizes and types, although if you are lucky you can see more than one of the same type and get some clue. Alan Silverstein From ajs at frii.com Thu Aug 10 18:12:30 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Aug 10 18:12:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20060811011230.87DF14D494@io.frii.com> > If I'm not mistaken--and my memory might be out of touch here--people > can surface collect anything sitting on top. Really? Anyone here know for sure? Almost all of the time, that's all I would need to make ME happy. But I don't want to "steal" from a claim owner, or worse, meet up with an unhappy, gun-toting claim owner. It was bad enough the time I followed a friend's directions in New Mexico, and I read the 10 restrictions on the posted BLM sign as I entered the area, but still ran afoul of a BLM ranger due to rockhunting in an (unposted) ACEC (Area of Critical Environmental Concern). I had to dump my collecting pouch, and apologize, to avoid a $500 fine! Thanks, Alan Silverstein From ajs at frii.com Thu Aug 10 18:14:30 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Aug 10 18:14:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <20060810214924.64268.qmail@web36704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060811011430.317834D494@io.frii.com> > ...well no wait, the GPS isn't good enough, get some pictures of your > markers tied in with GPS... What, no mention of the datum? :-) Yes, when you read a location out of any GPS unit, you must also specify the datum, such as NAD27 CONUS or WGS83, otherwise your numbers can be "off" by several hundred meters when entered in a different datum. It amazes me how often people specify Earth coordinates without a datum. It's printed right there on the USGS map too (usually NAD 27). Cheers, Alan Silverstein From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Aug 10 18:28:13 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Aug 10 18:28:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <20060811011230.87DF14D494@io.frii.com> References: <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> <20060811011230.87DF14D494@io.frii.com> Message-ID: IIRC, some time ago, someone posted the legal definitions of surface/placer claims vs underground claims. And on placer claims J Q Public couldn't touch anything whereas on the other type you could gather material under certain circumstances. That's my vague and unreliable recollection so perhaps someone who really knows could clarify the matter. I also seem to recall that the regulations varied by state. BK On 8/10/06, Alan Silverstein wrote: > > > If I'm not mistaken--and my memory might be out of touch here--people > > can surface collect anything sitting on top. > > Really? Anyone here know for sure? Almost all of the time, that's all > I would need to make ME happy. But I don't want to "steal" from a claim > owner, or worse, meet up with an unhappy, gun-toting claim owner. > > It was bad enough the time I followed a friend's directions in New > Mexico, and I read the 10 restrictions on the posted BLM sign as I > entered the area, but still ran afoul of a BLM ranger due to rockhunting > in an (unposted) ACEC (Area of Critical Environmental Concern). I had > to dump my collecting pouch, and apologize, to avoid a $500 fine! > > Thanks, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 10 18:40:41 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 10 18:39:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: References: <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> <20060811011230.87DF14D494@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <44DBE019.2060307@verizon.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > IIRC, some time ago, someone posted the legal definitions of surface/placer > claims vs underground claims. And on placer claims J Q Public couldn't > touch > anything whereas on the other type you could gather material under certain > circumstances. That's my vague and unreliable recollection so perhaps > someone who really knows could clarify the matter. I also seem to recall > that the regulations varied by state. Give me a little while... I'm looking up the website that answers all these questions in detail. Right now I'm fasting for surgery and taking some "preparation materials," giving new meaning to the experience of pyroclastic flow, so if you don't hear back from me it might be as late as tomorrow night. Don From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Aug 10 18:41:32 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Aug 10 18:41:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <44DBE019.2060307@verizon.net> References: <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> <20060811011230.87DF14D494@io.frii.com> <44DBE019.2060307@verizon.net> Message-ID: No rush Don, I hope this is a minor procedure. BK On 8/10/06, DonH wrote: > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > IIRC, some time ago, someone posted the legal definitions of > surface/placer > > claims vs underground claims. And on placer claims J Q Public couldn't > > touch > > anything whereas on the other type you could gather material under > certain > > circumstances. That's my vague and unreliable recollection so perhaps > > someone who really knows could clarify the matter. I also seem to recall > > that the regulations varied by state. > > > Give me a little while... I'm looking up the website that answers all > these questions in detail. Right now I'm fasting for surgery and taking > some "preparation materials," giving new meaning to the experience of > pyroclastic flow, so if you don't hear back from me it might be as late > as tomorrow night. > > Don > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Aug 10 19:08:02 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Aug 10 19:07:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography References: <20060809230301.55592.qmail@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com><00c601c6bc34$aea8b0d0$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> <003b01c6bc86$0cf1f1a0$7a941b4b@LarryRush> Message-ID: <003a01c6bcea$fd7e7490$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> I doubt that I'll be able to find it around here, or have time to this time of year, school related job. I have a friend who is a professor of geology at the University of South Alabama. He's interested in a good scientific explanation of bicolor tourmaline. How, in chemical, physical, or whatever it is that makes the crystalline structure exhibit two different colors. If you can find that in your book, I'd appreciate it. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography > Jeanette: If you can, get a copy of "The Tourmaline Group", by Richard > Dietrich, 1985, published by Van Nostrand. (Hardback, 300 pages) I think > it is still in print. Although it is quite technical in parts, it is a > very comprehensive treatise on tourmaline, the best I have seen. If you > can't find it, let me know and I can scan and send you the relevant pages > you want. > > Larry Rush > > =================================== > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeanette Wimpee" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" > > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:23 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography > > >> Getting back to rock discussions...... >> I need a good in depth explanation of how the different colors form in >> tourmaline crystals. What makes the colors, and how? And I don't need >> the grammer school version, more like the Master's or PhD version. >> Also can somebody give me the link to the 3D models of crystals, the ones >> you can rotate online? >> Jeanette >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 10 19:10:45 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 10 19:09:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: References: <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> <20060811011230.87DF14D494@io.frii.com> <44DBE019.2060307@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44DBE725.50200@verizon.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > On 8/10/06, DonH wrote: >> >> J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> > IIRC, some time ago, someone posted the legal definitions of >> surface/placer >> > claims vs underground claims. OK, here are some clues to get you all started. Every state with BLM land should have a website. For example here is the Idaho site: http://www.id.blm.gov/index.htm You need to dig around to actually find the rules, which I'm not inclined to do at the moment. When I was active in Arizona, I remember finding all the rules for filing mining claims on BLM land--the shape and size of the claim, fees, how it must be marked, how to record it, what you can and can't do on the land, etc. It really is out there; use some creative search terms like 'BLM mining claim nevada (or wherever)' or 'BLM mining law 1872' or 'filing mining claim', etc. You'll eventually find everything you need to know, except what a cattle guard is and what to do when you run across a chain-locked gate on open-access land. This is a good topic and I'm sure others will help out when they see it. Good luck, Don From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Thu Aug 10 19:12:07 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Aug 10 19:12:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims References: <20060811011230.87DF14D494@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <003501c6bceb$8be53a70$7a941b4b@LarryRush> I wish the Arizonan who approached us with a rifle on public land shared the view about surface collecting. (This was gold territory). The threat was not explicit, but his mannerisms were! We didn't care to discuss the finer points of BLM regulations at that point, and were relieved to walk away without a confrontation! An angry redneck with a gun can cool rockhound fever in a hurry! Larry ===================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Silverstein" To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:12 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims,BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website >> If I'm not mistaken--and my memory might be out of touch here--people >> can surface collect anything sitting on top. From rockhounds at adelphia.net Thu Aug 10 19:15:33 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Thu Aug 10 19:14:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Manners In-Reply-To: <44DA8297.4080005@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <000201c6bcec$06b31060$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Very good post! "I love you guys" Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John and Gloria Cornish Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 5:49 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Manners Hi J.R., Thank you for a calm voice, it is appreciated. Tim, My calling you a name was not right, I apologize. J.R., Thanks again for the kind words. All the very best, John J. R. Hodel wrote: >Hi: > >I've been using email (and older related technologies) for many years >now. > >It is really easy to be misunderstood when writing email, as it seems >like an intimate and conversational communication, but in reality those >you converse with are far away and remote. This means you miss out on >all the cues that go along with oral conversation, face to face, or >even the tone of voice that accompanies conversation on the phone. > >I have had short email conversations with folks just a hundred yards >away that almost instantly descended into acidic invective, to my >humiliation, in retrospect, for participating. > >Our parents taught us manners, and we know how to use them face to >face, or on the phone. People from different cultures learn slightly >different manners. I've recently had the privilage of working with >extremely bright folks from South Asia, the South Pacific and South >America. Many of them had just landed in the US, and some with little >more than the clothes on their backs, just like our great, g-, g- >grandparents did. > >Their manners were different from the ones we were used to, but by >being willing to assume the best about each other, rather than the >worst, we learned how to get along and participate on team projects >that really needed us to be members of a team. > >Folks, just because you're using a new medium to communicate, don't >forget what your folks and neighbors taught you. Treat others as you >hope they will treat you. It is so easy to be misunderstood in email, >especially when you're reacting emotionally to something already >misunderstood... > >I know John Cornish, and he is a nice guy, a really nice guy, who works >really hard to share his mineral discoveries with others. I've enjoyed >meeting and talking with him, both face-to-face and on the 'Net. > >Tim, I'm sure, is a nice guy, with many friends who respect him, and >I'm sure he mostly deserves their respect, just like John does. > >Now, shake hands and come out fighting...wait....wait....joke alert... >;-) > >I'm a pacifist, mostly, and don't really want you guys to even be upset >with one another. What if one of you is hurt on that border mountain, >and needs help? Then what? Make up now and play nice, just in case! > >Obviously there are a lot of inconsistencies within BLM's claims data. >No surprise, BLM is part of the Dept of the Interior, which has >famously bad information technology, so bad that federal judges have >ordered their IT network totally disconnected from the Internet, >because important systems tracking billions of $$ were not protected, >at all, from black-hat hackers. > >So don't go betting the house on BLM data of the electronic kind, >because it won't look so good compared to the facts on the ground. > >Keep on Rockin' > >JR in WV > > > > > > __________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- > > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rockhounds at adelphia.net Thu Aug 10 19:22:41 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Thu Aug 10 19:22:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digging areas This Sunday a trip for Garnets In-Reply-To: <44DA3DED.5090301@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000301c6bced$05e67c20$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> My wife and I are going to an area 18 miles east of Clarkia (Idaho) to dig Garnet. It is not gem quality but some of it is specimen quality. 12 good flat sides. I found one last Sunday about 4 inch in diameter. Most were in the 1/2 to 1 inch range. I would be glad to show the way if anyone has an interest. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:56 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Digging areas Tim Fisher wrote: > AFAIK, no, there isn't. For leaf fossils, you can dig the Clarkia Bowl > site just south of town for a small fee I would have to agree. While Idaho is "the gem state," as Lanny says, it's a big state, and except for the star garnets, the gems ain't in this region. Some of us on the list have been exploring known sites and staying ahead of the Forest Service's path of destruction (i.e., remediation and decommissioning of roads and sites), and while we've had fun and obtained some nice samples, I have not found anywhere among the 30 sites I've visited, except Emerald Creek and Fossil Bowl, that I would say is a good place to make a trip. I have heard tales of this or that place where you might find some crystals of various species, but I have never seen any of these places myself and these stories are from old-timers who say "it may be grown over now" or "that's in a farmer's field." There are some folks around here who do lapidary, but I haven't met many folks into mineral collecting; and I would suspect that since the bulk of work around here is either farming or lumber, a lot of people don't have the time for it. Best, Don -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Aug 10 19:28:10 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Aug 10 19:28:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website Message-ID: Don, The preparation material is no doubt MINERAL water! Good luck with your surgery.Glenn > Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 18:40:41 -0700> From: donhalterman@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > J Bryan Kramer wrote:> > IIRC, some time ago, someone posted the legal definitions of surface/placer> > claims vs underground claims. And on placer claims J Q Public couldn't > > touch> > anything whereas on the other type you could gather material under certain> > circumstances. That's my vague and unreliable recollection so perhaps> > someone who really knows could clarify the matter. I also seem to recall> > that the regulations varied by state.> > > Give me a little while... I'm looking up the website that answers all > these questions in detail. Right now I'm fasting for surgery and taking > some "preparation materials," giving new meaning to the experience of > pyroclastic flow, so if you don't hear back from me it might be as late > as tomorrow night.> > Don> > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com: where your online world comes together - with news, sports, weather, and much more. http://www.live.com/getstarted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 10 19:31:47 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 10 19:30:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digging areas This Sunday a trip for Garnets In-Reply-To: <000301c6bced$05e67c20$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> References: <000301c6bced$05e67c20$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: <44DBEC13.4080909@verizon.net> Kelly Hanson wrote: > My wife and I are going to an area 18 miles east of Clarkia (Idaho) to dig > Garnet. It is not gem quality but some of it is specimen quality. 12 good > flat sides. I found one last Sunday about 4 inch in diameter. Most were in > the 1/2 to 1 inch range. I would be glad to show the way if anyone has an > interest. Howdy! If I'm feeling OK I can go--I think I know where you mean but I've never been there. Cna you get there in a road sedan, or do you need 4WD? Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 10 20:01:36 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 10 20:00:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44DBF310.7010503@verizon.net> Glenn Wimpee wrote: > Don, > > The preparation material is no doubt MINERAL water! Actually I was looking for something rock-related in all this. At the last moment it seems that, while I do have gallstones, I have absolutely no related symptoms. However, I have all the symptoms of polyps. I'll leave it at that. I was looking forward to making sections of the gallstones, but nothing even remotely organically or inorganically mineralogical will be removed now. The only interesting thing is that I'm drinking polyethylene glycol, with salts. This is the devil's present: it comes in a big cheerful box but you don't want what's inside. One of the products is a plastic jug with some white powder: KCl, NaCl, sodium hydrogen carbonate, and PEG. It also costs $50, which ticked me off completely, because I have all of that sitting on a shelf right behind me, and the box lists the exact weights and molarities of the ingredients, so I could have mixed it like a madman. Anyway, I know polyethylene glycol as a wood preservative and for preserving waterlogged lignite and wooden artifacts, even old ships. Fossilnut introduced me to PEG to preserve the lignite from Sayreville, NJ, which contains amber as well as original plant materials. You can imagine I had no interest in drinking it. So there, the story is marginally related. thanks for your wishes, Don From lanny at lrream.com Thu Aug 10 21:31:35 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Aug 10 21:32:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> References: <20060810043857.8734C4D493@io.frii.com> <200608101834.k7AIYOFP016923@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7aac8040608101147y11f83866j7d6da7fe13f1d12b@mail.gmail.com> <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> Message-ID: Hi Don and all, Don and I have gone over some of his soap box points all ready out in the field, but I think a few of them could use another point of view here. On Aug 10, 2006, at 12:21 PM, DonH wrote: > Drew wrote: > >> So claiming is still Wild West style, eh? Sounds very confusing to >> me, esp. >> because I have never seen a claim! > > > Well in my opinion the system is indeed a holdover from the wild west > days; the BLM in some states still wants your claim locality > registered in the township & range system, when it would make far more > sense to report the corners and center of the claim boundary in UTM > coordinates, with digital photos optional but encouraged. The whole > idea is that the BLM staff should be able to go out and find your > claim and check it out, and we have far easier ways to do that now > than ever before. I really do want to make that job easier. Yes, the system is in many ways a holdover from the "wild west days," and likely will be that way for a long time. Much of mining law is not really statutory, it is more set by case law (determined by court decisions). Don doesn't like the Township and Range system, but it is the way the land is surveyed. It is what most of us out west grew up with and learned, it is what is on the books and will probably last for a while. It describes blocks of land, it is not a coordinate system like that you get out of a GPS device. A mining claim location would definitely be more precisely located and described if each corner was given as a lat/lon (or ban the thought -- UTM), but that's not going to happen until a lot of people take on a whole new way of thinking. Also, the BLM and law has carefully avoided forcing mining claim locators from having to be good surveyors, or requiring them to buy equipment to locate a claim. Of course a GPS is comparatively cheap now, so maybe that stumbling block may no longer exist in some administrators' minds. I expect some changes will be coming along one of these days. > > While I'm on my soapbox again, it would also be neat if they had a > computer system into which new claims were entered; doing a little > simple math that someone could write in a few minutes (using the UTM > system anyway), the system could find overlapping or conflicting valid > claims and say WARNING! CLAIM JUMP! or some such thing warranting > further investigation. It would also bring up a map showing > rectangles with all claims nearby. Even if not overlapping, there > might be potential trouble if someone is really planning to mine a > locatable commercial resource (vs. the hobby mining a lot of us are > really talking about) there might be a clash when a miner follows an > ore body and it runs into another claim. This problem is not the problem of the government. Overlapping claims, conflicting rights between claimants, etc. is a civil problem. I hope the government continues to stay out of this problem. If at least one corner of a claim was more accurately described (by coordinates), then it certainly would make it easier to map the claim. Something like that probably will happen one of these days. However, if a miner follows an orebody and it runs into another claim the problem is going to exist whether the other claim is clearly marked on a map or not; I expect any active miner that might have that problem, especially a big mine, would most likely have worked this out long before developing the mine. That's one reason for claimants to clearly mark the claim on the ground and maintain corners (this latter point generally not required, it's a state thing, not a federal mining law thing). Also, a lot of claim locators like to keep their claims somewhat vague in a major mining district so as to make it easier to claim that a big development includes their claim, and thus someone has to pay. As to who has rights, in these cases, it depends on just what you mean by "follows an ore body." How this is handled depends on several factors and has been quite well spelled out by case law. > > There isn't much to see, depending on the claim; maybe a few corner > markers and a center monument, with claim forms in a waterproof > container; depending how much it is being worked, you may see > diggings; equipment, both functional and vandalized; maybe a shaft > opening or adits; some signs; maybe a powder magazine. Since land is > multi-use, including for cattle grazing, you can't really do much to > keep people physically off the claim. You don't have any rights to > the land itself, only certain rights to certain mineral resources. If > I'm not mistaken--and my memory might be out of touch here--people can > surface collect anything sitting on top. Considering that a standard lode claim is 1,500 feet long and 600 feet wide, even if the corners are up, you may not see more than one or two of them. Even then, it can be difficult to determine just what corners your are looking at, 3 corners of one claim, 2 of one and 1 from another or 3 separate corners of 3 unrelated claims, for instance (unless of course they are well marked and tagged with claim name and corner indication on each post). As stated above, keeping the corners up and well maintained is generally not required (some states require it, but it's generally not a fatal flaw if not done). The point of people being allowed to surface collect anything sitting on top would only apply to a lode claim, and even then is not a clearly defined "rule." The basis for it is the fact that a lode claim gives the claimant the right to the minerals of the lode (those in place), not placer minerals, which would generally include those weathered out and lying loose on the surface. However, do you really want to argue that point with a claimant mining a vein for quartz and you want to pickup a loose crystal? Are you sure it was weathered free and not freed by his mining activities and he just hasn't picked it up yet? Or maybe he doesn't care about the technicalities of the law and has that 44 magnum on his hip for purposes other than shooting rattlesnakes. > > My friend in Arizona finds people digging on his claim all the time. > I think he learned a lesson about writing articles that include the > real name of the claim and the exact coordinates with a map. > > Even though the system is antiquated, I like the idea. It harkens > back to the days when America was America, you could go out and "stake > your claim" and take your own chances; you could go bust or make out > well, but there was little standing in your way except a few rules and > the chance that someone else got there first. > > > Best, > Don The system may be antiquated, but most of the antiquated parts of the system are not a major problem. I often read of people having problems with some of this, with information from the BLM, etc., but to the best of my knowledge, I haven't, and in dealing with the BLM in the NW states, I've not been treated poorly or been given inaccurate information (except possibly in one instance which I never tried to determine if the information actually was inaccurate or if a claim was relocated later). I won't be able to respond to any errors or disagreements for several days, so if you don't agree with what I've written, have fun with it. Regards, Lanny From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Aug 10 21:41:16 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Aug 10 21:41:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography Message-ID: <081120060441.29389.44DC0A6B0003A310000072CD215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi Jeanette, Let me try to help with some brief explanations, if I can. Dichroism is the term when a mineral appears different colors viewed in different directions. It's called dichroism if the mineral is hexagonal or tetragonal and therefore has two different directions one can view it from, parallel or perpendicular to the c-axis; and, pleochroism if the mineral is orthorhombic, monoclinic, or triclinic, with potential for three different color directions. Tourmaline, being hexagonal, is dichroic; but many other minerals besides tourmaline have this property, it's just that it's unusually distinct in tourmaline. Dichroism has to do with the fact that light is absorbed differently--different intensities and different color portions of the spectrum--when the light is travelling in different directions relative to the chemical bonds in the mineral. In tourmaline, because some of the chemical bonds are oriented differently with respect to the c-axis, light is absorbed differently if it is travelling parallel to, or perpendicular to, the c-axis; hence, dichroism. That's the explanation in a nutshell. And the simple version of the story about what causes the color in tourmaline, is that iron causes green and blue colors, and manganese, pink. Lots of iron looks black. There are a lot more subtleties involved, to explain yellow and orange colors, etc., but this is the simple version. George Rossman could explain all the intricacies much better! Perhaps this will help guide your professor friend; one should be able to look up lots of information about what causes dichroism as a general phenomenon. best regards, Pete -------------- Original message from "Jeanette Wimpee" : -------------- > I doubt that I'll be able to find it around here, or have time to this time > of year, school related job. > I have a friend who is a professor of geology at the University of South > Alabama. He's interested in a good scientific explanation of bicolor > tourmaline. How, in chemical, physical, or whatever it is that makes the > crystalline structure exhibit two different colors. If you can find that in > your book, I'd appreciate it. > Jeanette > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Rush" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography > > > > Jeanette: If you can, get a copy of "The Tourmaline Group", by Richard > > Dietrich, 1985, published by Van Nostrand. (Hardback, 300 pages) I think > > it is still in print. Although it is quite technical in parts, it is a > > very comprehensive treatise on tourmaline, the best I have seen. If you > > can't find it, let me know and I can scan and send you the relevant pages > > you want. > > > > Larry Rush > > > > =================================== --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Fri Aug 11 03:29:20 2006 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Fri Aug 11 03:29:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims BLM LR2000 database andGeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <44DBF310.7010503@verizon.net> Message-ID: <00b501c6bd31$0266b350$c745450a@KayDesk> Well One might say the Surgeon will be heading into the mine to see what he can extract..... Kay Been There, taken the CRAP and been explored... Good Luck and may they find nothing From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Fri Aug 11 04:47:09 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Fri Aug 11 04:47:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography References: <081120060441.29389.44DC0A6B0003A310000072CD215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <001301c6bd3b$e0d73c40$c0089444@remains> and don't forget copper causing green and blue in material from Paraiba, and also now the new cuprian Mozambique material ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography > Hi Jeanette, > > Let me try to help with some brief explanations, if I can. > > Dichroism is the term when a mineral appears different colors viewed in > different directions. It's called dichroism if the mineral is hexagonal > or tetragonal and therefore has two different directions one can view it > from, parallel or perpendicular to the c-axis; and, pleochroism if the > mineral is orthorhombic, monoclinic, or triclinic, with potential for > three different color directions. Tourmaline, being hexagonal, is > dichroic; but many other minerals besides tourmaline have this property, > it's just that it's unusually distinct in tourmaline. > > Dichroism has to do with the fact that light is absorbed > differently--different intensities and different color portions of the > spectrum--when the light is travelling in different directions relative to > the chemical bonds in the mineral. In tourmaline, because some of the > chemical bonds are oriented differently with respect to the c-axis, light > is absorbed differently if it is travelling parallel to, or perpendicular > to, the c-axis; hence, dichroism. That's the explanation in a nutshell. > > And the simple version of the story about what causes the color in > tourmaline, is that iron causes green and blue colors, and manganese, > pink. Lots of iron looks black. There are a lot more subtleties > involved, to explain yellow and orange colors, etc., but this is the > simple version. George Rossman could explain all the intricacies much > better! > > Perhaps this will help guide your professor friend; one should be able to > look up lots of information about what causes dichroism as a general > phenomenon. > > best regards, > Pete > > > -------------- Original message from "Jeanette Wimpee" > : -------------- > > >> I doubt that I'll be able to find it around here, or have time to this >> time >> of year, school related job. >> I have a friend who is a professor of geology at the University of South >> Alabama. He's interested in a good scientific explanation of bicolor >> tourmaline. How, in chemical, physical, or whatever it is that makes the >> crystalline structure exhibit two different colors. If you can find that >> in >> your book, I'd appreciate it. >> Jeanette >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lawrence Rush" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:05 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography >> >> >> > Jeanette: If you can, get a copy of "The Tourmaline Group", by Richard >> > Dietrich, 1985, published by Van Nostrand. (Hardback, 300 pages) I >> > think >> > it is still in print. Although it is quite technical in parts, it is a >> > very comprehensive treatise on tourmaline, the best I have seen. If you >> > can't find it, let me know and I can scan and send you the relevant >> > pages >> > you want. >> > >> > Larry Rush >> > >> > =================================== > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Aug 11 06:11:55 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Aug 11 06:12:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography Message-ID: <081120061311.5598.44DC821B00060F09000015DE216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Right, Michael, thanks! The deep blue Paraiba tourmaline colored by copper is really neat and fascinating. -------------- Original message from Michael Schmidt : -------------- > and don't forget copper causing green and blue in material from Paraiba, and > also now the new cuprian Mozambique material --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Fri Aug 11 08:35:25 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Fri Aug 11 08:35:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / HallelujahJunction Adventure! In-Reply-To: <200608101650.k7AGoW9D008357@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200608101650.k7AGoW9D008357@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <44DCA3BD.40702@tenforward.com> Hi Bob, Thank you for your kind words, I think Scott really did a fine job too, in fact, it's a bit daunting when I consider beginning my own report! But, it was a grand adventure, the kind I'd certainly like to read about, and it'll make a good story with a bit of luck. I've begun the process and have finished most of the text for the first capsule I'll launch, this a report on the Crater Rock Museum in Central Point, Oregon. It'll be awhile yet, but it's getting closer. For my Petersen story, I've only had time for a rough selection of the photos (I took over 400 pictures while I was away), still, I'd like to have this done before Denver with a bit of luck! Will you be coming by the Holiday Inn, if so, stop in and say hi, I'm in 107. Thanks for writing and all the very best, John Bob Loeffler wrote: >I agree with Jeanette. Those amethyst crystals are awesome and I love all >of the pictures with narratives. They really tell the story. > >Bob > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John and Gloria >Cornish >Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:27 AM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Our Petersen Mountain / HallelujahJunction >Adventure! > >Hi Jeanette, > >Thank you for writing, your kindness is appreciated very much. All the >very best, > >John > >Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > > >>Wow, WOW, and TRIPLE WOW!!! >>I couldn't have imagined a mountain full of amethyst until I saw the >>pictures. Wish I were there....for a couple of days at least. >>Jeanette >> >> >> >> >> >>>Hi Everyone, >>> >>>Well, here it is. This is the link... >>> >>> >>> >>> >http://www.greatbasinminerals.com/Collecting%20Reports/Petersen%20Mnt%20June >,%202006/Peterson%20Mountain%20Commercial%20Dig%20June%20July%202006.htm > > >>>.. that will take you to the first telling of our big Petersen >>>Mountain/ Hallelujah Junction quartz dig. I've yet to write and post >>>my version, but his will definitely give you a feel for the fun! I >>>very much hope you enjoy! All the very best, >>> >>>John >>> >>> >>> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Fri Aug 11 08:45:47 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Aug 11 08:45:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: References: <20060810043857.8734C4D493@io.frii.com> <200608101834.k7AIYOFP016923@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7aac8040608101147y11f83866j7d6da7fe13f1d12b@mail.gmail.com> <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:31:35 -0700, Lanny wrote: >Hi Don and all, > >Don and I have gone over some of his soap box points all ready out in >the field, but I think a few of them could use another point of view >here. Thanks, Lanny. I just wanted to remark that even though this thread started out rather acrimoniously, it's lead to the posting of some good articles with much useful information. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From JHODEL at wvdep.org Fri Aug 11 09:01:53 2006 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Fri Aug 11 09:02:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal forms Message-ID: Hi: I'm not familiar emough with the geochemistry of tourmaline to have an understand of what trace elements cause which colors, so I would also be very interested in learning more about what is one of my favorite gemstones. (It's probably a fav because I've field collected more and prettier tourmaline than any other gemstone!) But I can help with the crystallography part of Jeanette's question. Mindat.org has added 3-D rotating crystal shapes to many (if not all) of their minerals. So just go to www.mindat.org search for a mineral, and select the appropriate mineral of interest from the search return, and scroll down to see multiple crystalographic forms identified for each mineral you review. And don't forget to share what you learn about colors and trace elements in the various types of tourmaline. Thanks, to all who sent references in the email batch, too, I'll be looking them up for my own information. KoR, JR in WV --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bg at his.com Fri Aug 11 09:01:36 2006 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Fri Aug 11 09:17:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] opal in spokane Message-ID: does anyone know anything about precious opal from spokane, washington? thanks, cathy From rocknate at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 09:37:21 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Fri Aug 11 09:37:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal forms/Tourmaline Colors Message-ID: JR, and others I have an electronic copy of the Master's thesis by Brian Giller on tourmaline that was referenced in an earlier post but no longer seems to be online (the server was probably in New Orleans) and will be happy to email it to you if you are interested. It is a PDF file about 1.5 Mb. I have pasted the title and table of contents below. Let me know if you are interested and I will email it off list. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA AN OVERVIEW OF TOURMALINE MINERALOGY FROM GEM TOURMALINE PRODUCING PEGMATITE DISTRICTS IN AFRICA by Brian S. Giller TABLE OF CONTENTS Abstract............................................................................................................................ xii Introduction.........................................................................................................................1 Previous Work .....................................................................................................................5 The Crystal Structure of the Tourmaline Group ..................................................................7 Tourmaline Formulas.........................................................................................................12 Causes of Color in the Tourmaline Group.........................................................................13 Materials & Methods .........................................................................................................16 General Results ..................................................................................................................21 Results...............................................................................................................................24 Nigerian Faceted Tourmaline ................................................................................24 Namibian & Malian Tourmaline Slices and Fragments ........................................88 Sanga Sanga, Tanzania Tourmaline Slices ..........................................................117 Democratic Republic of Congo Tourmaline Slices .............................................134 Mozambique Tourmaline Fragments...................................................................152 Namibian, Malian and Mozambique Tourmaline Cell-Edge Refinements .........168 Discussion.......................................................................................................................171 Conclusions.....................................................................................................................180 References.......................................................................................................................184 Appendix 1.......................................................................................................................191 Appendix 2.......................................................................................................................202 On 8/11/06, J.R. Hodel wrote: > > Hi: > > I'm not familiar emough with the geochemistry of tourmaline to have an > understand of what trace elements cause which colors, so I would also be > very interested in learning more about what is one of my favorite > gemstones. (It's probably a fav because I've field collected more and > prettier tourmaline than any other gemstone!) > > But I can help with the crystallography part of Jeanette's question. > Mindat.org has added > 3-D rotating crystal shapes to many (if not all) of their minerals. So > just go to www.mindat.org search for a mineral, and select the > appropriate mineral of interest from the search return, and scroll down > to see multiple crystalographic forms identified for each mineral you > review. > > And don't forget to share what you learn about colors and trace > elements in the various types of tourmaline. > > Thanks, to all who sent references in the email batch, too, I'll be > looking them up for my own information. > > KoR, > JR in WV > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Aug 11 12:46:20 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Aug 11 12:45:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: References: <20060810043857.8734C4D493@io.frii.com> <200608101834.k7AIYOFP016923@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7aac8040608101147y11f83866j7d6da7fe13f1d12b@mail.gmail.com> <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44DCDE8C.50906@verizon.net> Al Balmer wrote: > On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:31:35 -0700, Lanny wrote: > Thanks, Lanny. I just wanted to remark that even though this thread > started out rather acrimoniously, it's lead to the posting of some > good articles with much useful information. Al, et al., I'm back in action. Warnings of post-procedure amnesia, dizziness, and disorientation were GREATLY exaggerated. I feel as good as I've been feeling lately. They didn't find anything though, which means I'm back to square one as far as knowing why my GI tract isn't working right. At least I know a lot of things that AREN'T wrong. But anyway, I've heard it said that small minds talk about people, mediocre minds talk about events, and great minds talk about ideas. While I often fall far short of those standards, it is a goal to strive for, and in this case Lanny and I can debate *ideas* without and personal involvement. We each have a perspective; me, being relatively new to the whole T&R and BLM thing, I focus on how it *should be and could be*; Lanny, having been involved for a long time, has a much better focus on the way it *is* and how to deal with the system here and now. Here is one point on which we can all agree, which I will emphasize for all people who have been puzzled so far: rules and management are sometimes confusing, vague, contradictory, and difficult to enforce or deal with; and the people who deal with them can range from sharply competent to uninformed and disaffected. I think the best bet is to do as much research as possible before you collect, and even print out copies of the rules to take with you... sometimes a bulletproof vest may help. I know at least three or four people, including myself, who have been accosted or outright shot at in Arizona, but so far none of that in Idaho. As someone else said, not every opponent in the field is willing or cares about discussing any rules, but after 15 years of computing in the medical, financial, and military industries, the term "all due diligence" echoes loudly in my mind. If you're fully prepared, your case is stronger, even if you made an honest mistake. Your State Geological Survey should have a general land use map somewhere in their inventory, with lots of colored squares showing private ownership, BLM, FS, state, county, KGB, CIA, etc. I saw one once for my local region, and it looks like an Amish quilt. It was fairly expensive and I didn't buy one. I've been told, by the marginally helpful BLM official on the phone, that the local forest Service office also has a pretty good public lands map. I'm at the point where I need to shell out the money for the general map, since I rarely know whose land I'm on when I'm out in the field. So far, my status as a researcher for the university, while wearing my yellow safety vest and having orange cones put out and otherwise being very safe, visible, and courteous, has been a satisfactory explanation when questioned by the occasional sheriff's deputy or curious passerby. I don't know what percentage of list members live in BLM states, but this is a good topic because you can really run into trouble in the field--if not with a claimant or owner, then with a ranger, and if not with a ranger, then maybe a rancher (them damn holes break my cattle's legs) ... Worldwide members: what is it like collecting in other countries? What is the concept of "public land"? I've heard that, in Sweden, if you own undeveloped property, other people can use the property and camp on it, and I guess collect on it, as long as they're so many meters away from any house or dwelling; is that true? Are there complex and sometimes conflicting, or outrageous, rules about collecting in general, about old mines and quarries, or operating mines and quarries? best, Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Aug 11 13:01:12 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Aug 11 13:00:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal forms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44DCE208.1090909@verizon.net> > But I can help with the crystallography part of Jeanette's question. > Mindat.org has added > 3-D rotating crystal shapes to many (if not all) of their minerals. > --- Indeed this is good, and the site http://webmineral.com has had rotating crystal structures for quite a while. They use Jcrystal, which is a program you can buy pretty cheaply and use yourself (maybe about $40-50, which is really affordable for such a program), and have added Jmol applets which offers more view to the atoms involved vs. the mathematical geometric structure on which Jcrystal focuses. Occasionally someone will express an interest in serious crystallography; Jcrystal and Jmol allow users to manipulate crystals models from all angles, and include Miller indices, axes, and other labels. You can also alter the unit cell dimensions and indices of models, or create your own, and see what happens. I am speaking mostly of Jcrystal since I don't know much about Jmol--webmineral just added Jmol models but I like what I see. However I like the fact that both of these programs are applets that use browser features to execute--the new way of doing programs which I was helping pioneer for the gov't before I retired. You don't need to upgrade executables and worry about whether it will work with Billgatus of Borg's latest operating system. These can be computer and network intensive but their advantages far outweigh the annoyances. If you've got a recent compatible browser and Java (and perhaps JavaScript) are turned on, you're ready to go. Crystal modeling is not for everyone. But it is only a matter of motivation. If you want to learn it, you can, and these programs make the subject much more accessible than ever before. I didn't fully understand hexagonal symmetry relationships until I got Jcrystal and made my own models, and learned by error in which I created forms that cannot exist in real time and space, and then understood. There is also a very capable professional program called CrystalMaker, but it is expensive. Also, my advisor made some relatively simple drawings that took him ALL DAY, and he is a Ph.D. with an emphasis on crystallography, so I think I'll wait a while until I invest in CrystalMaker. If you've read this far, you can check out these links. Take a look, even if you don't intend to try these; at least you'll know what's out there and maybe some day will explore further. An example of webmineral's Jcrystal applet (maybe mindat is using the same thing): http://webmineral.com/data/Orthoclase.shtml An example of webmineral's new Jmol applets (maybe mindat is using this instead?): http://webmineral.com/jmol/structure.php?id=Gerstmannite (Ewald Gerstmann, RIP) Here is the home page for Jmol, but it doesn't look like it would be easy for the beginner to actually create new models with it: http://jmol.sourceforge.net/ Here you can preview and buy Jcrystal (I use it, I like it, good bang for the buck): http://jcrystal.com/ Here is CrystalMaker; good luck with all that, but this is the program used to make many of the models we see (and wonder what the heck they represent) in American Mineralogist, Canadian Mineralogist, etc.: http://www.crystalmaker.co.uk/ Enjoy your quest! From murowchickj at umkc.edu Fri Aug 11 13:29:55 2006 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (James Murowchick) Date: Fri Aug 11 13:33:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal forms In-Reply-To: <44DCE208.1090909@verizon.net> Message-ID: Don- Just so everyone is clear?CrystalMaker is for drawing crystal structures, not crystal forms. SHAPE is a good app for draying crystals, including twins and non-ideal crystals. A knowledge of the Miller indices of the faces you?d like to have on the xl and the crystal class and unit cell parameters is needed for SHAPE, and that info can be gleaned from a number of sources. For CrystalMaker, the space group, unit cell parameters, and the fractional cell coordinates of the atoms are needed if you?re putting in a structure from scratch. These are usually readily obtained from articles with titles like ?The structure of...? or ?A refinement of the crystal structure of ...?. Such info can also be obtained (free) from the Mineral Structure Database accessible through the Mineralogical Society of America?s website at http://www.minsocam.org/MSA/Crystal_Database.html. Once you find the structure you want, download it as a .cif (crystal information file) file. CrystalMaker will open that file and the structure will appear without additional input from the user. There are also hundreds of mineral files already in the CrystalMaker library, and thousands (mostly non-minerals) can be downloaded from the CrystalMaker website. I?m not sure what your advisor was trying to do, but even a relatively complex structure can be entered from scratch in a few minutes, so I suspect he was doing more than just drawing the structure. If you ever need to draw a structure, or want to study one (rotate, dissect, crawl inside and look around, etc.) and then look at the Xray diffraction pattern that structure would produce CrystalMaker is an excellent choice and well worth the price. DISCLAIMER: I have used CrystalMaker, CrystalDiffract, and SHAPE for years (had the original version of SHAPE on punch cards), but I have no affiliation with any of the applications. I am simply a very satisfied end user. Jim Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor, Geology Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 murowchickj@umkc.edu On 8/11/06 3:01 PM, "DonH" wrote: > > There is also a very capable professional program called CrystalMaker, > but it is expensive. Also, my advisor made some relatively simple > drawings that took him ALL DAY, and he is a Ph.D. with an emphasis on > crystallography, so I think I'll wait a while until I invest in > CrystalMaker. > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds at adelphia.net Fri Aug 11 13:37:48 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Fri Aug 11 13:37:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digging areas This Sunday a trip for Garnets In-Reply-To: <44DBEC13.4080909@verizon.net> Message-ID: <002701c6bd86$0282c630$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> A mini van went up there with 3 adults and 3 kids in it. I am sure it hit bottom a few times though. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:32 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Digging areas This Sunday a trip for Garnets Kelly Hanson wrote: > My wife and I are going to an area 18 miles east of Clarkia (Idaho) > to dig Garnet. It is not gem quality but some of it is specimen > quality. 12 good flat sides. I found one last Sunday about 4 inch in > diameter. Most were in the 1/2 to 1 inch range. I would be glad to > show the way if anyone has an interest. Howdy! If I'm feeling OK I can go--I think I know where you mean but I've never been there. Cna you get there in a road sedan, or do you need 4WD? Don -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Aug 11 15:15:24 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Aug 11 15:14:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal forms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44DD017C.2090503@verizon.net> James Murowchick wrote: > Don- > Just so everyone is clear?CrystalMaker is for drawing crystal > structures, not crystal forms. SHAPE is a good app for draying crystals, > including twins and non-ideal crystals. Thanks for pointing that out, I was remiss in those details. One of the more prominent uses for CrystalMaker, as far as I've seen, is the drawing of "polyhedral models" that explore the symmetry of the bonds in the structure. But I'll leave it at that, since I'm not at that level yet. I can see it from where I'm standing, but not quite in the door. We cover that in more detail in Advanced Mineralogy. SHAPE is another well-recommended program as well, but I've never tried it. And there is another program, written by a German or Netherlands fellow who sometimes attends the Rochester Symposium (somebdy help me out here--maybe I've got a little temporary amnesia after all), that is more user-friendly and fairly inexpensive, but I forget the name and can't find the CD at the moment. Anyone? Last name Ottens? Kristal something? I can find a Bert Ottens relating to minerals using both Yahoo and Google, but not his software. Anyway, I bet there are more. Jim, what do you recommend for the beginning user on a budget--as I say, what gets the most bang for the buck? Don From tim at orerockon.com Fri Aug 11 17:02:26 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Aug 11 17:02:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] opal in spokane In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060811165521.036a73c8@orerockon.com> AFAIK, the opal was in vesicular basalt near Pullman/Moscow, not Spokane. There is a vertical shaft in a farmer's field south of the road between the two towns, and was the site of an opal "rush" that attracted Tiffany's around the turn of the century. It is no longer accessible. There used to be an opal mine that produced very little precious opal, from similar basalts, near Moses, WA on the Snake River; it too is closed. There may have been other exposures in the Spokane area in the vesicular basalts there, similar to those west on I-90 near George, but I have never heard of anything valuable coming from them. Lanny Ream probably knows more about the Spokane area. At 09:01 AM 8/11/2006, you wrote: >does anyone know anything about precious opal from spokane, washington? > >thanks, cathy Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Aug 11 17:45:43 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Aug 11 17:43:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography References: <081120060441.29389.44DC0A6B0003A310000072CD215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <000f01c6bda8$a76705e0$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> Thanks, I'll pass this on. I think he thinks he's too busy to look all this up himself. ;-) Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography > Hi Jeanette, > > Let me try to help with some brief explanations, if I can. > > Dichroism is the term when a mineral appears different colors viewed in > different directions. It's called dichroism if the mineral is hexagonal > or tetragonal and therefore has two different directions one can view it > from, parallel or perpendicular to the c-axis; and, pleochroism if the > mineral is orthorhombic, monoclinic, or triclinic, with potential for > three different color directions. Tourmaline, being hexagonal, is > dichroic; but many other minerals besides tourmaline have this property, > it's just that it's unusually distinct in tourmaline. > > Dichroism has to do with the fact that light is absorbed > differently--different intensities and different color portions of the > spectrum--when the light is travelling in different directions relative to > the chemical bonds in the mineral. In tourmaline, because some of the > chemical bonds are oriented differently with respect to the c-axis, light > is absorbed differently if it is travelling parallel to, or perpendicular > to, the c-axis; hence, dichroism. That's the explanation in a nutshell. > > And the simple version of the story about what causes the color in > tourmaline, is that iron causes green and blue colors, and manganese, > pink. Lots of iron looks black. There are a lot more subtleties > involved, to explain yellow and orange colors, etc., but this is the > simple version. George Rossman could explain all the intricacies much > better! > > Perhaps this will help guide your professor friend; one should be able to > look up lots of information about what causes dichroism as a general > phenomenon. > > best regards, > Pete > > > -------------- Original message from "Jeanette Wimpee" > : -------------- > > >> I doubt that I'll be able to find it around here, or have time to this >> time >> of year, school related job. >> I have a friend who is a professor of geology at the University of South >> Alabama. He's interested in a good scientific explanation of bicolor >> tourmaline. How, in chemical, physical, or whatever it is that makes the >> crystalline structure exhibit two different colors. If you can find that >> in >> your book, I'd appreciate it. >> Jeanette >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lawrence Rush" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 9:05 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tourmaline colors and crystallography >> >> >> > Jeanette: If you can, get a copy of "The Tourmaline Group", by Richard >> > Dietrich, 1985, published by Van Nostrand. (Hardback, 300 pages) I >> > think >> > it is still in print. Although it is quite technical in parts, it is a >> > very comprehensive treatise on tourmaline, the best I have seen. If you >> > can't find it, let me know and I can scan and send you the relevant >> > pages >> > you want. >> > >> > Larry Rush >> > >> > =================================== > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From miller3987 at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 11 18:17:50 2006 From: miller3987 at sbcglobal.net (Glen Miller) Date: Fri Aug 11 18:17:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: public land mining claims In-Reply-To: <200608112000.k7BK0QTt005886@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20060812011750.26797.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com> My request as a (now) retired BLM planner is that each of us refrain from passing along rumors or statements such as, "My understanding is...." on subjects such as collecting on someone else's mining claim. If you really want to know the status of a piece of public land (those are the lands that BLM manages), call up the geologist at the BLM office nearest to the land in which you are interested. The better you know the subject of your question, the better the quality of the answer you will receive. I've overheard the Redding, CA geologist suffer through some really dumb phone calls from the public interested in mining, staking claims, or what have you. If there is not a geologist handy, a realty specialist may be able to help you with the status of a particular parcel of public land. If push come to shove, you are entitled to submit a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for detailed information about an intem of interest. All the required information is available online. Please remember that BLM is staffed by people just like you. They do respond to courteous phone calls and letters. If you're lucky they'll give you their email addresses. Glen Miller --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From earlrock at nctv.com Fri Aug 11 18:45:36 2006 From: earlrock at nctv.com (Earl) Date: Fri Aug 11 18:45:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hendersonville Micromounters Symposium Message-ID: <00e801c6bdb1$01e0ab40$6401a8c0@earlbasement> Greetings all. A small change to the event scheduled for Saturday, Sept. 2nd in Hendersonville, NC, USA The plan for having a lunch buffet has run into problems, so we will have no lunch available. There will be drinks and dessert type snacks available. The event is at the Salvation Army Building on Grove and 4th Streets, and is in conjunction with the Gem & Mineral Spectaculer, and the Apple Festival also being held in Hendersonville on Labor Day weekend. Family not into micro-minerals? Turn them out at the Apple Festival, the Gem & Mineral Spectacular, and have them stop in at the Mineral & Lapidary Museum on 4th and Main Streets. Planning on coming? Bring your 'scope, and any trading/free material that you have and show up on Saturday morning. regards, Earl --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From webmaster at rockhoundstation1.com Fri Aug 11 19:24:50 2006 From: webmaster at rockhoundstation1.com (Sal) Date: Fri Aug 11 19:06:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Prineville Oregon Trip Message-ID: <002c01c6bdb6$7e5f2520$34b2d8d1@net> Hi Everyone, Sal here from www.rockhoundstation1.com A few of us from RHS1 are going to Prineville, Oregon on the 19th - some will camp and do the 20th as well. If anyone wants to come along with you can email to me for the specifics. Incidently - (not sure if this is allowed but want you to know) the newsletter on my site this month has pictures of the world's largest crystals - discovered in the Miaca Mt's in Mexico - and an interview with the guy they hunted down to photograph them when everyone else had problems getting pics. Awesome pics - great story. Sorry if that sounded too much like an ad but when I first saw a pic of these things I almost had a stroke! Sal --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaszczak at mtu.edu Fri Aug 11 20:30:02 2006 From: jaszczak at mtu.edu (John A. Jaszczak) Date: Fri Aug 11 20:30:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kerio Valley graphite in fluorite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Friends, Several years ago I received a few samples of fluorite from Kimwarer ore body, Kerio valley, Kenya from a friend of mine. He told me that he got them from Bernie Murowchick. My friend was a micromounter and he had these because of the tiny fluorite crystals- it turns out that the fluorite matrix also has scattered graphite crystals in them that have very interesting overgrowths of second-generation graphite on them. As I am interested in studying these graphite overgrowths more, I wonder if anyone on the list might have any information from their own collections about similar specimens of flourite with graphite from Kenya in particular, but anywhere for that matter. I'd be especially intersted in knowing if anyone has information about where Bernie may have obtained these from. Sincerely, John ************************************************************* Dr. John A. Jaszczak Professor Adjunct Curator Dept. of Physics A. E. Seaman Mineral Museum Michigan Technological University 1400 Townsend Dr. Houghton, Michigan 49931-1295 phone: (906) 487-2255 fax: (906) 487-2933 http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~jaszczak/ http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~jaszczak/graphite.html *************************************************************** On Fri, 11 Aug 2006, James Murowchick wrote: > Don- > Just so everyone is clear‹CrystalMaker is for drawing crystal > structures, not crystal forms. SHAPE is a good app for draying crystals, > including twins and non-ideal crystals. A knowledge of the Miller indices > of the faces you¹d like to have on the xl and the crystal class and unit > cell parameters is needed for SHAPE, and that info can be gleaned from a > number of sources. > For CrystalMaker, the space group, unit cell parameters, and the > fractional cell coordinates of the atoms are needed if you¹re putting in a > structure from scratch. These are usually readily obtained from articles > with titles like ³The structure of...² or ³A refinement of the crystal > structure of ...². Such info can also be obtained (free) from the Mineral > Structure Database accessible through the Mineralogical Society of America¹s > website at http://www.minsocam.org/MSA/Crystal_Database.html. Once you find > the structure you want, download it as a .cif (crystal information file) > file. CrystalMaker will open that file and the structure will appear > without additional input from the user. There are also hundreds of mineral > files already in the CrystalMaker library, and thousands (mostly > non-minerals) can be downloaded from the CrystalMaker website. > I¹m not sure what your advisor was trying to do, but even a relatively > complex structure can be entered from scratch in a few minutes, so I suspect > he was doing more than just drawing the structure. If you ever need to draw > a structure, or want to study one (rotate, dissect, crawl inside and look > around, etc.) and then look at the Xray diffraction pattern that structure > would produce CrystalMaker is an excellent choice and well worth the price. > > DISCLAIMER: I have used CrystalMaker, CrystalDiffract, and SHAPE for years > (had the original version of SHAPE on punch cards), but I have no > affiliation with any of the applications. I am simply a very satisfied end > user. > > Jim > > Dr. James B. Murowchick > Associate Professor, Geology > Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall > 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 > 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 > murowchickj@umkc.edu > > > > > > On 8/11/06 3:01 PM, "DonH" wrote: > > > > There is also a very capable professional program called CrystalMaker, > > but it is expensive. Also, my advisor made some relatively simple > > drawings that took him ALL DAY, and he is a Ph.D. with an emphasis on > > crystallography, so I think I'll wait a while until I invest in > > CrystalMaker. > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From bearonweb at yahoo.com Fri Aug 11 21:06:29 2006 From: bearonweb at yahoo.com (David Bear) Date: Fri Aug 11 21:06:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmoline Group Message-ID: <20060812040629.61899.qmail@web38909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Re: The Tourmoline Group: I just saw it for sale at Amazon dot com for $171. David Bear Arizona Certified Legal Document Preparer: #80104 3116 S. Mill Ave., #459, Tempe AZ 85282 (480)829-3933 --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Fri Aug 11 22:12:45 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Fri Aug 11 22:12:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <44DCDE8C.50906@verizon.net> References: <20060810043857.8734C4D493@io.frii.com> <200608101834.k7AIYOFP016923@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7aac8040608101147y11f83866j7d6da7fe13f1d12b@mail.gmail.com> <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> <44DCDE8C.50906@verizon.net> Message-ID: On 8/11/06, DonH wrote: > > I don't know what percentage of list members live in BLM states, but > this is a good topic because you can really run into trouble in the > field--if not with a claimant or owner, then with a ranger, and if not > with a ranger, then maybe a rancher (them damn holes break my cattle's > legs) ... > > Don, In an area of Northern California known as the Emerald Triangle the people you need to worry about are not ranchers, rangers, or other miners. It's farmers. They grow a high quality relative of common hemp around here. In the old days it was smuggled in from Mexico but now they just smuggle in a Mexican National and some seeds. Even though the crop is legal for medical use the farmers still think anybody out walking in the woods are coming to harvest their crop. I try to do my rockhounding in open area. The edge of reservoirs are good in the Fall. It's pretty safe in the woods after hunting season closes. Grant -- Chico, CA From rgangue at yahoo.com Sat Aug 12 07:52:21 2006 From: rgangue at yahoo.com (Stan Perry) Date: Sat Aug 12 07:52:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tourmoline Group book available In-Reply-To: <20060812040629.61899.qmail@web38909.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060812145221.57769.qmail@web54203.mail.yahoo.com> I have a copy of The Tourmaline Group in excellent condition I will sell for $125. I also have the tourmaline issue of Lapis in German I will throw in as a bonus. To see the other Geology related books I have you can go to my books listing on my website. http://www.emineralshow.com/books.htm Cheers, Stan --- David Bear wrote: > Re: The Tourmoline Group: I just saw it for sale at > Amazon dot com for $171. > > David Bear > Arizona Certified Legal Document Preparer: #80104 > 3116 S. Mill Ave., #459, Tempe AZ 85282 > (480)829-3933 > > --------------------------------- > Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > Stan Perry Our Gangue Minerals www.emineralshow.com Ebay seller ID rgangue e-mail at rgangue@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Aug 12 08:38:58 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Aug 12 08:37:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon Field Trip Report by my Brother Lee References: <20060812145221.57769.qmail@web54203.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c6be25$6e41a0e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I thought this list might enjoy my brother's trip report for our Oregon trip this summer posted at McRocks. He has a strange sense of humor. Maybe it runs in the family. Here is a link to it: http://mcrocks.com/ftr06-2/BatesJune-July2006.html From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 12:23:17 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Aug 12 12:23:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon Field Trip Report by my Brother Lee In-Reply-To: <000701c6be25$6e41a0e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <20060812145221.57769.qmail@web54203.mail.yahoo.com> <000701c6be25$6e41a0e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: Sounds like a great trip. I wish I had your brother's camping rig. Gas over $3 per gallon and a motorhome that goes 8 miles on every gallon is keeping me close to home. And here in the heat is keeping me inside. This has not been a good summer, not when compared to taking my grandson to the Spectrum Mine last year. Grant Chico, CA On 8/12/06, jaybates wrote: > I thought this list might enjoy my brother's trip report for our Oregon trip > this summer posted at McRocks. He has a strange sense of humor. Maybe it > runs in the family. Here is a link to it: > > http://mcrocks.com/ftr06-2/BatesJune-July2006.html > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From afox at panix.com Sat Aug 12 12:28:02 2006 From: afox at panix.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Sat Aug 12 12:28:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims In-Reply-To: <44DCDE8C.50906@verizon.net> References: <20060810043857.8734C4D493@io.frii.com> <200608101834.k7AIYOFP016923@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7aac8040608101147y11f83866j7d6da7fe13f1d12b@mail.gmail.com> <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> <44DCDE8C.50906@verizon.net> Message-ID: > Worldwide members: what is it like collecting in other countries? > What is the concept of "public land"? I've heard that, in Sweden, if > you own undeveloped property, other people can use the property and > camp on it, and I guess collect on it, as long as they're so many > meters away from any house or dwelling; is that true? Having just gotten back from half a year in Sweden and Finland, I can say that yes, 'Allemansratten' (Every Man's Right) is alive and well. It's a good thing, but it's relies upon people doing the right thing and acting responsible. IMNSHO, there is no way it would ever work in modern America; our culture has raised most people to be selfish and inconsiderate, with little to no respect for others' property or privacy. In Sweden, it works well, because everyone obeys the rules, respects each other, and is not always out for personal gain at the expense of others. Swedes, unlike most Americans (in my opinion) understand that with rights come responsibilities, and they behave as such. Folks in both Sweden and Finland there can go wherever they want, so long as you stay away from homes and gardens. If you own a country house, you might sometimes see someone crossing over the back part of 'your' property following a streamcourse. Nobody ever camps within view / earshot of someone's house (at least unless they know the folks there and were invited). Some more info on Allemansratten: http://www.luth.se/luth/present/sweden/allemans.html http://www.vaellus.info/eng_walkerscode.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_public_access_to_the_wilderness It's a nice tradition that I wish we had here in the U.S. It used to exist (or so I'm told) throughout much of the Western US. Ranchers generally didn't mind folks going across their rangeland, so long as they didn't litter, didn't light fires, and didn't let the cows out. Unfortunately, selfish assholes have ruined that for all of us now; try getting permission to cross fields and enter property to do geologic mapping; it's all but impossible. Stepping off my soapbox now, a. -- afox at panix dot com || http://www.panix.com/~afox Go: It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye... From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 12:57:28 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Aug 12 12:57:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims In-Reply-To: References: <20060810043857.8734C4D493@io.frii.com> <200608101834.k7AIYOFP016923@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7aac8040608101147y11f83866j7d6da7fe13f1d12b@mail.gmail.com> <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> <44DCDE8C.50906@verizon.net> Message-ID: Right it's called socialism and failed socialism at that and I thank the Lord that it hasn't been established here. BK On 8/12/06, Aaron Fox wrote: > > > Worldwide members: what is it like collecting in other countries? > > What is the concept of "public land"? I've heard that, in Sweden, if > > you own undeveloped property, other people can use the property and > > camp on it, and I guess collect on it, as long as they're so many > > meters away from any house or dwelling; is that true? > > Having just gotten back from half a year in Sweden and Finland, I can say > that yes, 'Allemansratten' (Every Man's Right) is alive and well. It's a > good thing, but it's relies upon people doing the right thing and acting > responsible. IMNSHO, there is no way it would ever work in modern > America; our culture has raised most people to be selfish and > inconsiderate, with little to no respect for others' property or privacy. > > In Sweden, it works well, because everyone obeys the rules, respects each > other, and is not always out for personal gain at the expense of others. > Swedes, unlike most Americans (in my opinion) understand that with rights > come responsibilities, and they behave as such. Folks in both Sweden and > Finland there can go wherever they want, so long as you stay away from > homes and gardens. If you own a country house, you might sometimes see > someone crossing over the back part of 'your' property following a > streamcourse. Nobody ever camps within view / earshot of someone's house > (at least unless they know the folks there and were invited). > > Some more info on Allemansratten: > http://www.luth.se/luth/present/sweden/allemans.html > http://www.vaellus.info/eng_walkerscode.php > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_public_access_to_the_wilderness > > It's a nice tradition that I wish we had here in the U.S. It used to > exist (or so I'm told) throughout much of the Western US. Ranchers > generally didn't mind folks going across their rangeland, so long as they > didn't litter, didn't light fires, and didn't let the cows out. > Unfortunately, selfish assholes have ruined that for all of us now; try > getting permission to cross fields and enter property to do geologic > mapping; it's all but impossible. > > Stepping off my soapbox now, > > a. > > -- > afox at panix dot com || http://www.panix.com/~afox > Go: It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye... > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Aug 12 13:02:02 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Aug 12 13:00:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon Field Trip Report by my Brother Lee References: <20060812145221.57769.qmail@web54203.mail.yahoo.com><000701c6be25$6e41a0e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <001301c6be4a$2e0d03a0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Grant, my brother and I got a couple bottles of sunstones from Spectrum, many small and medium size reds and shillers for free. We also got to spend some time on the belt picking off stones for free. Some people went ahead and purchased additional time on the belt, but Lee and I being are extremely frugal and did quite well just taking advantage of Chris's free offerings and were very happy. At the Dustdevil I found one nice stone for which they only charged me $25. Almost all the big and nice stones found at the Dustdevil were found just walking around looking very closely. Most of the holes were either full of water or unfit to dig. However, because of the huge rainstorms that had gone through the days before, may nice stones had been washed out. The Dustdevil people were very busy getting their new belt and electronic scanning machinery up and running. We also did very well at Rainbow Ridge as Lee attested to. We split a end dump load threeways with someone from San Diego and his kid. That kid had sharp eyes and spotted all the opal before we could. Luckily he had a short attention span and left some opals for us after awhile. lol We only found a couple precious opals at the Bonanza Mine, although since we were working the tailings, what we found were stable. We will continue our trips to the outback as long as we are capable (damn the price of gasoline), even if we spend our kid's inheritance. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Oregon Field Trip Report by my Brother Lee > Sounds like a great trip. I wish I had your brother's camping rig. Gas > over $3 per gallon and a motorhome that goes 8 miles on every gallon > is keeping me close to home. And here in the heat is keeping me > inside. This has not been a good summer, not when compared to taking > my grandson to the Spectrum Mine last year. > > Grant Chico, CA > > On 8/12/06, jaybates wrote: > > I thought this list might enjoy my brother's trip report for our Oregon trip > > this summer posted at McRocks. He has a strange sense of humor. Maybe it > > runs in the family. Here is a link to it: > > > > http://mcrocks.com/ftr06-2/BatesJune-July2006.html > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Aug 12 13:17:34 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Aug 12 13:16:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims In-Reply-To: References: <20060810043857.8734C4D493@io.frii.com> <200608101834.k7AIYOFP016923@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7aac8040608101147y11f83866j7d6da7fe13f1d12b@mail.gmail.com> <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> <44DCDE8C.50906@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44DE375E.7040707@verizon.net> All, I hope we can stop this right here. There are too many points of view and passions involving ideas like this (ironically, I call it freedom, you call it socialism) and it can come to no good. Sometimes we can choose to withold a post due to the effect it might have, and discretion is the better part of valor. This is a subject I'm sure many of us would gladly debate around a table with our favorite beverages, but given the truths of "how many newgroup members does it take to change a light bulb," I forsee a mess if we try to engage this on the list, notwithstanding the marginal or off-topic direction it would take. The strength of a good list is the number and diversity of its members; portions of good people tend to leave when discussions like this become nasty. Life is always a compromise. And by the way: "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire Diplomatic Don J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Right it's called socialism and failed socialism at that and I thank the > Lord that it hasn't been established here. > > BK > >> >> Having just gotten back from half a year in Sweden and Finland, I can say >> that yes, 'Allemansratten' (Every Man's Right) is alive and well. From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Aug 12 13:42:38 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Aug 12 13:42:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Rockhounds? In-Reply-To: <000a01c6ba51$2ec27110$5a941b4b@LarryRush> References: <000a01c6ba51$2ec27110$5a941b4b@LarryRush> Message-ID: On 8/7/06, Lawrence Rush wrote: > I have been reading quite a bit about the Chinese economy lately. It is > astounding what that country is doing with all aspects of it's economy, ------------------------------------------------- The Chinese are also investing in gold and silver, usually in the form of jewelry. My understandng is a lot of it is sold through Dubai and is 24 carat. They don't want 10 or even 14 carat gold. Because of that I read just about anything I can find about China. Remember this is China, not Hong Kong. Unfortunately, they are also burning coal without proper polution controls. That causes clouds that cross international borders. But if they continue to grow their economy some people might become collectors. China has 65 million people earning enough to be middle class -- in China. Below is an article about the working class. I don't invest there anymore but all the multi-national companies are invested. Grant - Chico Whatever the Chinese may lack in quality, they more than make up for in quantity. Working stiffs in the West may be better skilled, but like Custer's men at the Little Big Horn, they are being overwhelmed by the numbers. An estimated 130 million migrant workers are on the move in China, most of them young women looking for work - so says a new documentary, "China Blue," by Micha X. Peled, a sellout at the recent San Francisco Asian Film Festival. Jasmine Lee leaves her rural home to come to Shaxi, Canton, to help her family, and finds employment at a factory assembling denim clothing for export to overseas companies. There she shares a room with 12 girls in an upper floor of the factory building, makes less than a dollar a day, and works overtime without compensation. Leaving the factory without permission or sleeping during work hours means a cut in pay, and meals are automatically deducted from her pay. Poor Jasmine is not alone. Only a couple of years ago in Dongguan, we read, a typical company in the city offered workers "base pay of $60 a month, and an additional $40 a month in overtime and free room and board in adjacent dormitories, where the workers sleep six or eight to a room." So, at any rate, reported the New York Times in 2004, businessman could rent factory space from the local government for just 10 cents a square foot per month - barely 5% to 10% of equivalent space in the United States or Europe at the time. But that is only where the savings began. As farming became more and more mechanized in the middle kingdom, farm hands were freed from the drudgery of fieldwork and put on the road to the coastal cities. It is estimated that as many as 500 million former peasants are now expected to join the labor force in the next two decades. Since then, things may have changed a bit - for the better or for the worse, depending, of course, on whether you are a worker or a businessman. The Christian Science Monitor tells us that rural incomes are now growing more, and so are inland cities. As a result, migration to coastal boomtowns is not as much of a lure as before. Still, the overall picture stays the same. China is a vast pool of cheap, eager labor. In the rural areas, workers cost not much more than $900, or so, on average per year. Plus, a special classification allows companies to employ workers with little paperwork or social insurance obligation. The typical workingman makes hardly a dollar per hour in China, or just over $100 per month. That is only three percent of what people earn in the United States, and a quarter of what the average Mexican earns. Even highly skilled workers, such as information technology professionals, are very cheap by world standards, starting at around $5,000 per year. And there's plenty more where they came from. China's Ministry of Labour and Social Security (MOLSS) claims there were 8.33 million urban unemployed at the end of June 2006 - and about another million unregistered or laid-off. It estimates that the economy will need to find new jobs for 45 million urban people and 45 million migrant workers over the next five years. And, that does not include rural workers or new graduates. Chinese universities and technical schools, for instance, are said to be turning out as many as 350,000 new engineers each year. As to the quality, the statistics are silent, but the big numbers talk loudly enough. The National Development and Reform Commission points out that 25 million young people will be looking for 11 million available jobs this year. As children of baby boomers, born around 1980, seek their first jobs in 2006, China will face a situation described as the "country's worst employment crisis ever." "I went to China recently, as a consultant to a French firm that wanted to buy another company there," began a companion at dinner last night. "We went to tour the factory. It was very modern, clean and even air-conditioned, which was a blessing, because it was almost unbearably hot outside. But we went into one room that was not air-conditioned. And there was a whole team of young men welding parts together. With the extra heat of the welding machines, it didn't look to me as though they could survive. But there they were working away. "In my report, I mentioned this...saying something like 'management should consider air-conditioning for all the work areas.' But the Chinese snapped back that they 'weren't interested in any advice from Western consultants.' They knew how to run their business. And the people in the un-cooled rooms were trainees, who 'had to learn how to work.' "Who can compete with these people?" From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Aug 12 22:18:08 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Aug 12 22:18:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon Field Trip Report by my Brother Lee Message-ID: Thank you for sharing this one! I really enjoyed it. Glenn > From: jaybates@rcn.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:38:58 -0700> Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon Field Trip Report by my Brother Lee> > I thought this list might enjoy my brother's trip report for our Oregon trip> this summer posted at McRocks. He has a strange sense of humor. Maybe it> runs in the family. Here is a link to it:> > http://mcrocks.com/ftr06-2/BatesJune-July2006.html> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com: where your online world comes together - with news, sports, weather, and much more. http://www.live.com/getstarted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From markhp at xs4all.nl Sun Aug 13 06:34:50 2006 From: markhp at xs4all.nl (Mark) Date: Sun Aug 13 06:34:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal forms In-Reply-To: <44DD017C.2090503@verizon.net> References: <44DD017C.2090503@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44DF2A7A.5080502@xs4all.nl> Hi Don, I think you mean Kristall2000, a very capable program written by Klaus Schilling. You can download a demo version here: http://www.mdat-coll.de/download.htm or here: http://www.hoelzel-min.com/drawdemo.htm#vertriebeng It sells for 130 euro. Another program is winXMorph: http://cad4.cpac.washington.edu/WinXMorphHome/WinXMorph.html , a demo version is available. As a beginner I would get one of the demo versions and go from there... regards, Mark. DonH wrote: > James Murowchick wrote: > >> Don- >> Just so everyone is clear?CrystalMaker is for drawing crystal >> structures, not crystal forms. SHAPE is a good app for draying >> crystals, >> including twins and non-ideal crystals. > > > > Thanks for pointing that out, I was remiss in those details. One of > the more prominent uses for CrystalMaker, as far as I've seen, is the > drawing of "polyhedral models" that explore the symmetry of the bonds > in the structure. But I'll leave it at that, since I'm not at that > level yet. I can see it from where I'm standing, but not quite in the > door. We cover that in more detail in Advanced Mineralogy. > > SHAPE is another well-recommended program as well, but I've never > tried it. > > And there is another program, written by a German or Netherlands > fellow who sometimes attends the Rochester Symposium (somebdy help me > out here--maybe I've got a little temporary amnesia after all), that > is more user-friendly and fairly inexpensive, but I forget the name > and can't find the CD at the moment. Anyone? Last name Ottens? > Kristal something? I can find a Bert Ottens relating to minerals > using both Yahoo and Google, but not his software. > > Anyway, I bet there are more. Jim, what do you recommend for the > beginning user on a budget--as I say, what gets the most bang for the > buck? > > > Don > > > From info at agatesfromargentina.com Sun Aug 13 06:38:55 2006 From: info at agatesfromargentina.com (AGATES from ARGENTINA) Date: Sun Aug 13 06:38:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] More Agates in Argentina than the ones known as "Condor" Message-ID: <000801c6bedd$d3b62fa0$16a859c8@xp3gigapro> Hi Everyone ! During these years , we learned that there are more Agates and sources than just the Commercially known as "Condor" Agates in Argentina. This is because we started travelling and "hunting" for agate sources that were unknown to Agate Collectors from around the World. There are new sources in the Patagonian Region , gravel Pit Agates alongside "Rio Uruguay" (Argentinian Border) and the Commercially known as "Condor" Agates in the "Cuyean" Region. These "Condor" type Agates are the most famous and known as the only ones becoming from Argentina. The distance between "Condor" type Agate sources and "Patagonian" Agate sources is of about 1200 miles , and farther , depending on the Patagonian Province to prospect. Hoping this is a helpful information for Worldwide Agate Collectors. Ricardo & Claudia Birnie Argentina --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Aug 13 08:43:43 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Aug 13 08:42:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal forms In-Reply-To: <44DF2A7A.5080502@xs4all.nl> References: <44DD017C.2090503@verizon.net> <44DF2A7A.5080502@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <44DF48AF.2060906@verizon.net> Mark wrote: > Hi Don, > > I think you mean Kristall2000, a very capable program written by Klaus > Schilling. You can download a demo version here: > http://www.mdat-coll.de/download.htm or here: > http://www.hoelzel-min.com/drawdemo.htm#vertriebeng > It sells for 130 euro. Yes that's it! I have that somewhere in a box. I like that one as well. Thanks, Don From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sun Aug 13 09:15:13 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sun Aug 13 09:15:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineralogy, uranium contamination, and bacterial activity Message-ID: <20060813161513.62379.qmail@web56304.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all: I saw this interesting story linked to on an IT news site I review often, and thought it was more directly interesting to this list than to the IT audience the original link was aimed at. http://www.pnl.gov/news/release.asp?id=175 "The U.S. Department of Energy estimates that uranium contaminates more than 2,500 billion liters of groundwater nationwide" which is a very scary statistic. The research discussed in the article makes it just a little less dangerous, as it shows how a strain of bacteria converts water-soluble uranium salts into the insoluble mineral uraninite. JR in WV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sun Aug 13 10:24:46 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sun Aug 13 10:24:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Public Lands and English common law Message-ID: <20060813172446.68743.qmail@web56315.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all: I found the discussion of how people regard private real estate in Scandinavia quite interesting. A good friend of mine is a property rights lawyer, who is also quite a white-water canoer. He has studied property and water rights a great deal, going to original source documents in the library of some of the oldest law schools in the east, partly as a result of his white-water hobby and partly because he is genuinely interested in the history of our law. Most of what I plan to say is my non-lawyer understanding of a law review Larry wrote about water rights, as well as my understanding of current property rights here in West Vriginia, USA. Here in the east, most law explicitly or implicitly originates in old English common law, as it existed at the time of the American Revolution in the late 1700s. Water rights as I am speaking doesn't apply to who can use up water, but who can make use of the waterway. In WV the stream bed belongs to the state, up to the high water mark, which in our beloved mountains can be pretty high. People can walk a stream and fish it, even if you own both sides of the creek and resist their access strenuously. At The Greenbrier, a very posh resort, they have put up fences across popular trout streams, and have their private police squad arrest "local Trash" who have the audacity to enter the private resort's golf course to fish the creeks. Those folks are not convicted, indeed, are not prosecuted, because the stream bed doesn't belong to the resort. Originally this public ownership extended to navigible waters, and way back, this meant, over east in Virginia, up to the "fall line" where ocean-going wooden ships could go no further upstream because of the water falls at the edge of the piedmont. But over time, navigible came to mean any water that would support any water craft, such as the trappers' bateaux, or large hewn wooden canoes that the voyageurs would bring their pelts out to market in. It even came to mean waters that were only navigible during highwater spring floods, which can be very small streams in the mountains, or even streams which were used to float timber by building a dam, accumulating a lot of warer with logs floating in it, and then open up the dam to allow the resulting flood to carry your timber down stream. Now, it means if your feet are wet, you're probably OK. Additionally, here in WV, land that is not fenced or posted with signs (a lot of obvious signs, too) is open for folks to walk, and hunt (when legal) and to collect herbs (no, like goldenseal and ginsang, I know what you're thinking!) when legal. When we first bought our first tract of land, it was thought unneighborly and rude to post your land. We have never posted land yet, but even so, neighbors who want to hunt squirrel or deer usually call and ask permission first. Then came 4-wheelers, AKA ATVs. Those boys thought the whole world existed for them to do doughnuts on, and had no hesitation to use cutters to open up a fence to gain access to a nice field to run it. Never mind the cattle/horses/goats/sheep now free to wander off. Did I mention pigs? A big Sow is the hardest animal to catch up if you don't have a bucket of corn! Well, that wasn't too popular with farmers, and the posted signs sprouted up pretty quickly. It isn't universal at all, but there are a lot more of them now than there used to be. I also know from reading that in England, in the Merrie Olde days, most land was help in common, and that this created problems of overuse and greed. So the Swedish custom probably isn't related to novel new political systems, but harks to the good old days, that lasted here locally until Honda and Polaris, et al, introduced automated tresspassing machinery. No one likes the "Drunk Four-Wheelers Club" folks around here. Just my 2 cents. Larry's law review article was like 80 or a hundred pages of complex historical research, and even tho I read the whole thing and discussed it with him over many a campfire (well, really, mostly dining rooms of nice eating establishments) I am not a lawyer. I've been on the jury a couple times, and heard a lot about it from both lawyers and law enforcement officers. He wound up making a buck or two from his research as white water became a big business here in WV, as he was able to help various rafting companies deal with access rights to that public waterway, so that's a good thing when historical research can turn a buck or two. I'm sure that out west things are a lot different, as much law rests on Napoleonic law via Spain and Mexico, instead of English common law. I'll start learning about that when we get a house built on our Arizona ranch (unimproved no-utilities lot, really, but a guy can dream!). And how does that Township, Range land location stuff work again? seems truly odd to me... KoR, JR --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Aug 13 11:00:45 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Aug 13 10:59:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Public Lands and English common law NOW Township and Range In-Reply-To: <20060813172446.68743.qmail@web56315.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060813172446.68743.qmail@web56315.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44DF68CD.2000609@verizon.net> J. R. Hodel wrote: > And how does that Township, Range land location stuff work again? seems truly odd to me... Try this, it helps if you have a few drinks first: http://www.outfitters.com/genealogy/land/twprange.html Really I'm sure it was a good idea at the time, and as Lanny constantly reminds me, it is a land survey system, not a point coordinate system. My heartache arises from the fact that, in our geology lab, it is taught as a coordinate system, and more text is devoted to it than the more commonly used latitude/longitude and the less commonly used, but more mathematical and logical, Universal Transverse Mercator (UTM) system. In fact, on our exams we had to locate a geological feature using T&R but never with lat/long or UTM. So my gripes are really subjective, in case anyone hadn't figured that out by now. Though I'm older, I've only been doing geology and minerals for the past ten years; so in effect I'm from the technology generation when it comes to that. I'm all about pushing ahead and learning to use more automated and exact methods for marking collecting spots in particular, and hope that some day, claim boundaries can be routinely recorded via GPS with coordinates at all four corners and the center monument. The best way to predict the future is to make it happen. On the other hand, I can use whatever mapping system is necessary in the context of what I'm doing, and I respect the work of those who labored to set up these systems in previous generations using only compasses and surveyor's transits. Here's another way I like to explain it, for those who know how to put tongue in cheek: When the aliens come, and ask for help using our maps to get around, if you try to explain T&R they will leave on the premise that we are too primitive to communicate. If you show them lat/long, they will stay and talk to us, but will think we are not ready for interstellar travel. If you show them UTM, they will think we are advanced enough to explore deep space. Enjoy! Don From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Aug 13 12:09:22 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Aug 13 12:07:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Public Lands and English common law NOW Township andRange References: <20060813172446.68743.qmail@web56315.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <44DF68CD.2000609@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000501c6bf0b$fd76bac0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> DonH, Some progress is being made. At least some rules have been established for doing cadastral surveys using GPS. I am sure over time, GPS coordinates will be established for legal corners under the Township and Range system and also the old Metes and Bounds system used on the east coast. http://www.blm.gov/cadastral/Tools/tools.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Public Lands and English common law NOW Township andRange > J. R. Hodel wrote: > > > And how does that Township, Range land location stuff work again? seems truly odd to me... > > > Try this, it helps if you have a few drinks first: > > http://www.outfitters.com/genealogy/land/twprange.html > > Really I'm sure it was a good idea at the time, and as Lanny constantly > reminds me, it is a land survey system, not a point coordinate system. > My heartache arises from the fact that, in our geology lab, it is taught > as a coordinate system, and more text is devoted to it than the more > commonly used latitude/longitude and the less commonly used, but more > mathematical and logical, Universal Transverse Mercator (UTM) system. > In fact, on our exams we had to locate a geological feature using T&R > but never with lat/long or UTM. So my gripes are really subjective, in > case anyone hadn't figured that out by now. > > Though I'm older, I've only been doing geology and minerals for the past > ten years; so in effect I'm from the technology generation when it comes > to that. I'm all about pushing ahead and learning to use more automated > and exact methods for marking collecting spots in particular, and hope > that some day, claim boundaries can be routinely recorded via GPS with > coordinates at all four corners and the center monument. The best way > to predict the future is to make it happen. On the other hand, I can > use whatever mapping system is necessary in the context of what I'm > doing, and I respect the work of those who labored to set up these > systems in previous generations using only compasses and surveyor's > transits. > > Here's another way I like to explain it, for those who know how to put > tongue in cheek: > > When the aliens come, and ask for help using our maps to get around, if > you try to explain T&R they will leave on the premise that we are too > primitive to communicate. If you show them lat/long, they will stay and > talk to us, but will think we are not ready for interstellar travel. If > you show them UTM, they will think we are advanced enough to explore > deep space. > > > Enjoy! > > Don > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From millsgeological at hughes.net Sun Aug 13 14:32:53 2006 From: millsgeological at hughes.net (Jim Mills) Date: Sun Aug 13 14:33:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Geoscience used books for sale Message-ID: <00d101c6bf20$1a78c960$0300a8c0@IBMBFBC977768C> Hello Group: All that hot weather last month was a perfect time to stay inside and work on winnowing down my geoscience library to make room for new acquisitions that are more in line with my current earth science interests. So, I have put together another used geoscience book offering for members of the Internet newsgroups to which I belong. If you don't want to read this ADVERTISEMENT, then please delete now. In addition to the books that I have winnowed from my personal library, there are others that came to me as duplicates or "extras" recently acquired when I purchased box-lots containing something I did need for my own library. All of them are very reasonably priced! If you are interested or have a question please email me off list CrestonCoyote@hughes.net and I will reserve requested titles for the first person to claim them. If you see something you want, don't delay - the previous sales seemed to go remarkably fast and some of you were disappointed. I will be posting this advertisement to several lists and apologize to those who receive this email more than once because they also belong to several lists. I have arranged the titles by the general categories of METEORITES, MINERALS MINES AND MINING, MINERALS, FOSSILS, GEOLOGY - FIELD TRIPS, GEOLOGY, GEOCHEMISTRY AND SOIL SURVEYS. All are bargain priced and the price quoted includes media rate postage to USA domestic addresses as well as applicable California Sales Tax. If you are located in another country than USA please inquire about postal rates to your area which would be added. So, take a look and see if any of these need to be in your own library: 1. METEORITES "The Composition and Structure of Meteorites Compared with that of Terrestrial Rocks" by George P. Merrill. This is an extract(not a reprint or an offprint)from the 1917 Annual Report of the Smithsonian and is 13 pages long plus there are 9 photographic plates. At the time, Dr. Merrill was Head Curator of Geology with the U.S. National Museum. Price - $7 2. MINERALS, MINES AND MINING "Anaconda" by Issac Marcosson published in 1957. A comprehensive history of The Anaconda Copper Company with a photographic supplement of 38 full page photographs of early mines, mills and important company executives. 366 pages, well indexed. Hardback, pages browning. Price - $10 3. MINERALS, MINES AND MINING Two issues of "The National Amateur Mineralogist" dated December 1941 and May, 1947. An interesting look into some of the early origins of the rockhounding hobby. This publication was around for about 10 years or so. Published by O.B. Brown in Seattle, Washington. The ads are at least as interesting as the short articles themselves. Small format magazines of around 35 to 40 pages each. Price - $10 (includes both issues) 4. MINERALS, MINES AND MINING "From the Ground Up - Stories of Arizona's Mines and Early Mineral Discoveries" by governor Jack Williams and Published by Phelps-Dodge corporation in 1981 as part of the company's centennial celebration. Soft cover, 32 pages, excellent condition. Price - $7 5. MINERALS, MINES AND MINING "Arizona Nonmetallics, A Summary of Past Production and Present Operations" by Eldred Wilson and published by the University of Arizona as Bulletin #152 in October, 1944. It is a 58 page report which concentrates on nonmetallic minerals. It is in near fine condition with only the previous owning organization's name stamped on the title page. Price - $10 6. MINERALS, MINES AND MINING "The Mineral Industries of Arizona" by J.B. Tenney and published by the University of Arizona as Bulletin #125 in February, 1928. A nice copy for those interested in historical mineral developments in Arizona. It is a 135 page report which concentrates on metallic mineral mines and organized by mining district. It is in near fine condition with only the previous owning organization's name stamped on the title page. Price - $10 7. MINERALS, MINES AND MINING "Mines and Mineral Resources of Contra Costa County, California" published in California Journal of Mines and Geology, vol 47, No 4 in October 1951. Comprehensive listings with maps and plates in pocket. Previous owner organization rubber stamp inside on cover page. Otherwise, very good condition. $15 8. MINES AND MINING "Rawhide" by Hugh Shamberger and published in Carson City, Nevada by Nevada Historical Press in 1974. Staple Bound Paperback Illustrated By Photographs and Fold out Map. Fine condition. Size is 11"H x 8 1/2"W Length is 50 Pages. Part of the Historic Mining Camps of Nevada Early History Development Water Supply series, a joint effort by USGS and Nevada Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. A little about its people, its mines, its quest for water and its promoters, who all together made it Nevada's last great mining boom. Price - $8 9. MINERALS - "Bibliography of the Geology and Mineral Resources of Arizona" by Eldred Wilson (University of Arizona Bulletin, Geologic Series#146, April, 1939. It is arranged alphabetically by Author. Well indexed for cross reference to key words. 163 pages. Ex-library copy with typical stamps and markings. Otherwise good tight binding and clean pages. Price - $15 10. MINERALS "Gold and Silver Deposits in North and South America" by Waldemar Lindgren. This is an extract(not a reprint or an offprint)from the 1917 Annual Report of the Smithsonian and it is 26 pages long. A nice summary of American deposits known at the time of publication. Price - $7 11. MINERALS "The Fractionation of the Yttrium Earths by Means of the Succinates" by Raymond Benner (his PhD thesis at the University of Wisconsin) and published as an off print of the University of Wisconsin Science Series Vol 4 No 1 in 1910. This is a classic in geochemistry and mineralogy. The author worked with Fergusonite from Gaalenerne, Norway; Euxenite from Arendal, Norway; Gadolinite from Texas; Keilhauite from Tvedestrand, Norway and Xenotime from Langesundfiord, Norway. If your collection includes an interest in the rare earth minerals, this is a great collectible for you! Price - $10 12. MINERALS "Ontario Minerals" published by The Ontario Department of tourism and Information as a folded poster with individual minerals pictured on one side and Minerals and localities on the reverse side. text on both sides of poster. Undated. Price - $4 13. FOSSILS - "Fossils, An Introduction to Prehistoric Life" by William Matthews, paperback published in 1962. A very good copy. Nice comprehensive look at fossils, fossil collecting, paleontology, etc. Price - $8 14. FOSSILS - CRUSTACEANS "A Pennsylvania Lepadomorph Barnacle from the Mazon Creek Area, Illinois" by Frederick R. Schram and published in the Journal of Paleontology Volume 49 #5 in September 1975. This copy is extracted from the original copy of that issue of the Journal (i.e. not a reprint or an offprint). 3 pages on the Journal's glossy paper. Illustrated with holotype specimen photograph and line drawing. No wraps. Price - $7 15. FOSSILS - BRACHIOPODS "Population Dynamics of Some Paleozoic Brachiopods and their Paleoecological Significance" by S Peter Richards and R. Bambach and published in the Journal of Paleontology Volume 49 #5 in September 1975. This copy is extracted from the original copy of that issue of the Journal (i.e. not a reprint or offprint). 23 pages on the Journal's glossy paper. Illustrated with mainly distribution diagrams for a half dozen or so species of Brachiopods from Indiana locations (Waldron, Richmond, Brookville, and Clifton. No wraps. Price - $7 16. GEOLOGY - FIELD TRIPS Three guides to Big Bend National Park. One for road trips, one for back roads and one for hikes. Published sometime in the 1970s. Each of them is approximately 30 pages in length. Nicely illustrated and good maps. All three for $7 17. GEOLOGY - FIELD TRIPS "Rockhounding and Beachcombing on Vancouver Island (Canada)" by Julie and Bill Hutchinson and published in 1971. 55 pages of locality suggestions with quite a few photographs. $9 18. GEOLOGY - FIELD TRIPS "N.W. Gem fields and Ghost Town Atlas" by Robert Neil Johnson and published in 1969 by Cy Johnson. This is the first edition of this publication. All maps, with text and some directions inserted directly onto the maps. Some deterioration along the bottom 1/2 inch of the spine. Otherwise, a very good copy. Price - $10 19. GEOLOGY - FIELD TRIPS "Guide to Fossil Collecting in Minnesota" by Hogberg, Sloan and Tufford and published as Educational Series #1 by the Minnesota Geological Survey in 1967. 38 pages with illustrations of fossils from MN and some data on localities and formations. Price - $7 20. GEOLOGY "Stratigraphy of Reference Sections in the Popotosa Formation, Socorro County, New Mexico" by Sigrid Asher-Bolinder. This is USGS Bulletin 1800 published in 1988. Includes a nice reference section diagram in the map pocket. 22 pages in very good condition. Price - $7 21. GEOLOGY "Methods of Study of Sediments" by Twenhoffel and Tyler published in 1941. A classic, nonmathmatical yet complete presentation of methodologies for sediment studies including standard sampling, analysis strategies and forms of graphical presentation. Excellent treatments of coal and oil shales as well. Very good condition hardback with good condition dustjacket. Price - $12 22. GEOLOGY " Uplift of the Bighorn Mountains, Wyoming and Montana - A Sandstone Provenance Study" by Whipkey, Cavaroc and Flores. This is USGS bulletin 1917-D. 20 pages in mint condition. Price - $7 23. GEOLOGY/STRATIGRAPHY/MICROFOSSILS "Committee on Mediterranean Neogene Stratigraphy, Proceedings of the third Session in Berne" 8 - 13 June, 1964 edited by C.W. Drooger, et al and published in 1966 by Brill, in Leiden, Netherlands. Large format, 346 pp. 99 figs./plts. covering the proceedings of the Symposium on paleontological lineages and zones used for biostratigraphic subdivision of the Neogene throughout the world. Includes several dozen different scholarly papers, most in English, but some others in French, Italian and German. Hardback book - ex library with usual markings and the usual markings blotted out with felt pen. The book includes papers covering taxonomy of some mollusks as well as foraminerifera. Price $20 24. GEOCHEMISTRY "Geology of Carbonate Porosity" published as Continuing Education Course Note Series #11 by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists (AAPG) in 1979. Five different authors contributed to this coarse material in the following five categories: Porosity in carbonate rock sequences, Secondary carbonate porosity, Dolomite Reservoir Rocks: Processes Controls, Porosity development, Porosity Prediction in shallow versus Deep Water Limestones, Pore Systems in carbonate rocks and their Influence on Hydrocarbon Recovery Efficiency. Price - $18 25. SOIL SURVEY - The Soil Surveys were prepared by the US Department of Agriculture, Soil Conservation Service in the 1960s for most counties in farming regions. They are exhaustively comprehensive with annotated photo mosaic maps (usually larger double page size fold out maps) which have been annotated with ALL of the soil type boundaries. They are very useful to geologists, farmers and real estate agents who sell farm land. I have several for sale priced at $9 each. If anyone wants to purchase all of them, I can make a very good bargain price since I could ship all of them in a single package. Otherwise, please specify which county is of interest to you. Here is a list of the counties for which I have an available soil survey: A. Hardin County, Tennessee B. Cherokee County, South Carolina C. Mathews County, Virginia D. Gage County, Nebraska E. Daviess County, Missouri F. Yadkin County, North Carolina Thanks for looking. Jim Mills --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From info at agatesfromargentina.com Sun Aug 13 20:11:50 2006 From: info at agatesfromargentina.com (AGATES from ARGENTINA) Date: Sun Aug 13 20:11:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Other agatesfrom Argentina than "Condor"Type agates Message-ID: <000c01c6bf4f$644bd210$30a859c8@xp3gigapro> Hellow GrouP !! More agates from Argentina , besides the famous "Condor" agates (from "San Rafael" , "Mendoza" Province) At www.agatesfromargentina.com These guys are really looking for new agates from the other side of the World!! You never have seen these agates before!! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From maccormickdj at hotmail.com Sun Aug 13 14:48:52 2006 From: maccormickdj at hotmail.com (David/Jane MacCormick) Date: Mon Aug 14 10:07:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] itacolumite for purchase Message-ID: Does anyone out there have a piece of itacolumite for sale? I should be about 50x200x12mm in size. email me at maccormickdj@hotmail.com From lanny at lrream.com Mon Aug 14 14:12:25 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Aug 14 15:12:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: References: <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> <20060811011230.87DF14D494@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <56d690710eecaf721c7c308c4a857620@lrream.com> Hi Bryan, Stated simply, it goes like this: 1) a lode claim protects the rights of a mining claimant to the minerals in a lode (the minerals in place); 2) a placer claim protects the rights of a mining claimant to the minerals that have formed by being freed and concentrated by weathering. Thus, if a claimant has located a lode claim, he has the rights to the minerals in the hard rock, but not to the minerals in the soil, stream gravels and similar unconsolidated deposits. So, a quartz crystal weathered out and loose on the surface does not belong to him by right of the claim. It belongs to the person who finds it first and picks it up -- if the land is open to rockhounding. On a placer claim however, the mining claimant has the right to all placer minerals that are locatable minerals. Thus any gold nugget, diamond, sapphire, quartz crystal, wulfenite crystal, etc. loose on the surface, or xx feet underground in the soil or gravel, belongs to the claimant, even if the claimant really is only looking for the gold (claims are not actually located only for one mineral, even if the claimant writes "gold placer claim" on the location notice). Of course it goes the other way too; if you find an outcrop of rock containing cavities of quartz crystals on land covered by a placer claim, you have as much right to them as anyone else, including the mine claimant. The problem is of course that even though that is the law, the claimant may feel otherwise: "If I stake a claim, it is all mine!" You might win in court, but you may also have to go to a doctor to have the rocksalt dug out of you behind... . Technically, the government has no say in this, but both the BLM and FS will typically suggest that you do not collect minerals on any claim without permission. Regards, Lanny On Aug 10, 2006, at 6:28 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > IIRC, some time ago, someone posted the legal definitions of > surface/placer > claims vs underground claims. And on placer claims J Q Public couldn't > touch > anything whereas on the other type you could gather material under > certain > circumstances. That's my vague and unreliable recollection so perhaps > someone who really knows could clarify the matter. I also seem to > recall > that the regulations varied by state. > > BK From lanny at lrream.com Mon Aug 14 14:19:50 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Aug 14 15:19:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] opal in spokane In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13ea64312a211e2cb54d23765168abd9@lrream.com> Hi Cathy, As Tim stated, in this region, the only significant precious opal was the so-called "Moscow Opal Mines." These however are in Washington, not Idaho as the name might imply. The locality is a couple of pits that have been filled with junk for more than 100 years or so, located on private land. The occurrence was in a highly vesicular zone in a flow of the Columbia River basalts. Another occurrence is down by the railroad stop of Moses on the Snake River about 9 miles below Lewiston. Probably physically still accessible, but it is located on private ranch land. There is another report of some being found southerly and/or easterly in the immediate Lewiston area. As to Spokane, I've heard stories, but none seriously or really believable. Unless of course it was just found last week and no one has told me yet... . Regards, Lanny On Aug 11, 2006, at 9:01 AM, Catherine Gaber wrote: > does anyone know anything about precious opal from spokane, washington? > > thanks, cathy > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From lanny at lrream.com Mon Aug 14 14:29:05 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Mon Aug 14 15:29:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digging areas This Sunday a trip for Garnets In-Reply-To: <000301c6bced$05e67c20$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> References: <000301c6bced$05e67c20$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: Hi Kelly, I am interested in your garnet locality too. This may be one I've been to already in the area "18 miles east of Clarkia," but that does cover a lot of country and roads. I'll be happy to share what I know of that region and we can kick this around some. I couldn't dig your email address out of your message to the list, but it might be better for any discussion to email me off list: lanny@lrream.com. Thanks, Lanny On Aug 10, 2006, at 7:22 PM, Kelly Hanson wrote: > My wife and I are going to an area 18 miles east of Clarkia (Idaho) > to dig > Garnet. It is not gem quality but some of it is specimen quality. 12 > good > flat sides. I found one last Sunday about 4 inch in diameter. Most > were in > the 1/2 to 1 inch range. I would be glad to show the way if anyone has > an > interest. > Kelly > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:56 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Digging areas > > > Tim Fisher wrote: > >> AFAIK, no, there isn't. For leaf fossils, you can dig the Clarkia Bowl >> site just south of town for a small fee > > > I would have to agree. While Idaho is "the gem state," as Lanny says, > it's a big state, and except for the star garnets, the gems ain't in > this region. Some of us on the list have been exploring known sites > and > staying ahead of the Forest Service's path of destruction (i.e., > remediation and decommissioning of roads and sites), and while we've > had > fun and obtained some nice samples, I have not found anywhere among the > 30 sites I've visited, except Emerald Creek and Fossil Bowl, that I > would say is a good place to make a trip. I have heard tales of this > or > that place where you might find some crystals of various species, but I > have never seen any of these places myself and these stories are from > old-timers who say "it may be grown over now" or "that's in a farmer's > field." There are some folks around here who do lapidary, but I > haven't > met many folks into mineral collecting; and I would suspect that since > the bulk of work around here is either farming or lumber, a lot of > people don't have the time for it. > > Best, > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Aug 14 15:46:02 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Mon Aug 14 15:46:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Digging areas This Sunday a trip for Garnets References: <000301c6bced$05e67c20$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: <018201c6bff3$723dd1d0$0200a8c0@warren> Maybe John and I will go too. Depends on whether or not we can get the Kia running properly. (Note to Lanny/Don - we have now replaced all four tires - lol) Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Hanson" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:22 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Digging areas This Sunday a trip for Garnets > My wife and I are going to an area 18 miles east of Clarkia (Idaho) to > dig > Garnet. It is not gem quality but some of it is specimen quality. 12 good > flat sides. I found one last Sunday about 4 inch in diameter. Most were in > the 1/2 to 1 inch range. I would be glad to show the way if anyone has an > interest. > Kelly > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:56 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Digging areas > > > Tim Fisher wrote: > >> AFAIK, no, there isn't. For leaf fossils, you can dig the Clarkia Bowl >> site just south of town for a small fee > > > I would have to agree. While Idaho is "the gem state," as Lanny says, > it's a big state, and except for the star garnets, the gems ain't in > this region. Some of us on the list have been exploring known sites and > staying ahead of the Forest Service's path of destruction (i.e., > remediation and decommissioning of roads and sites), and while we've had > fun and obtained some nice samples, I have not found anywhere among the > 30 sites I've visited, except Emerald Creek and Fossil Bowl, that I > would say is a good place to make a trip. I have heard tales of this or > that place where you might find some crystals of various species, but I > have never seen any of these places myself and these stories are from > old-timers who say "it may be grown over now" or "that's in a farmer's > field." There are some folks around here who do lapidary, but I haven't > met many folks into mineral collecting; and I would suspect that since > the bulk of work around here is either farming or lumber, a lot of > people don't have the time for it. > > Best, > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Tue Aug 15 05:30:29 2006 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Tue Aug 15 05:30:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jolly balance Message-ID: <44E1BE65.6070002@ncmail.net> List, The geological survey is beginning to put together notes for a report on the minerals of North Carolina. NOT a collecting guide! I'm doing this on a shoe-string budget. I need to use all the inexpensive methods I can. Does anyone know where I could get a jolly balance? I have Sinkankas, but I'm not a good builder. Any suggestions, comments, help, is greatly appreciated! Thanks, Kenny NC Geological Survey From lanny at lrream.com Tue Aug 15 09:33:20 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Aug 15 10:33:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLM land claims, BLM LR2000 database and GeoCommunicator website In-Reply-To: <44DCDE8C.50906@verizon.net> References: <20060810043857.8734C4D493@io.frii.com> <200608101834.k7AIYOFP016923@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7aac8040608101147y11f83866j7d6da7fe13f1d12b@mail.gmail.com> <44DB872B.9060401@verizon.net> <44DCDE8C.50906@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7a9b4b072815f3614e72c325b5add605@lrream.com> Hi Don, a lot of subjects covered in your message: > Al, et al., > > ... > Here is one point on which we can all agree, which I will emphasize > for all people who have been puzzled so far: rules and management are > sometimes confusing, vague, contradictory, and difficult to enforce or > deal with; and the people who deal with them can range from sharply > competent to uninformed and disaffected. Unfortunately that is true, worse are they don't always follow their rules. > ... > > Your State Geological Survey should have a general land use map > somewhere in their inventory, with lots of colored squares showing > private ownership, BLM, FS, state, county, KGB, CIA, etc. I saw one > once for my local region, and it looks like an Amish quilt. It was > fairly expensive and I didn't buy one. I've been told, by the > marginally helpful BLM official on the phone, that the local forest > Service office also has a pretty good public lands map. I'm at the > point where I need to shell out the money for the general map, since I > rarely know whose land I'm on when I'm out in the field. So far, my > status as a researcher for the university, while wearing my yellow > safety vest and having orange cones put out and otherwise being very > safe, visible, and courteous, has been a satisfactory explanation when > questioned by the occasional sheriff's deputy or curious passerby. The maps the BLM and FS sell to the public are often color coded to show land ownership (these are mostly $6.00 each). Generally, this is enough, but they aren't updated often, and there are land trades and sales of BLM and FS lands, so they do change. But that's what I use, and I haven't been yelled at or shot at yet. > ... > Worldwide members: what is it like collecting in other countries? > What is the concept of "public land"? I've heard that, in Sweden, if > you own undeveloped property, other people can use the property and > camp on it, and I guess collect on it, as long as they're so many > meters away from any house or dwelling; is that true? Are there > complex and sometimes conflicting, or outrageous, rules about > collecting in general, about old mines and quarries, or operating > mines and quarries? The rights to access and use of private land is ruled by state statutes, thus different from state to state. In Idaho, private land must be posted in certain ways to indicate that the public is not allowed on it (occupied private land and tilled farm lands are all exempt from this requirement). Private land that is not posted is open to public access, but due to misuse more and more of this is being posted. The unposted private lands are open to public access, that is you can drive (on roads) and hike on it, but everything on it belongs to the landowner, you can't remove any geologic material (or vegetation) without permission of the owner. In the past, many ranch lands and timber lands were open to rockhounding; often, they let everyone on so it wasn't necessary even to ask permission to collect, but that is changing as people misuse the land. State lands are also managed differently by individual states, In Idaho, the public has the right of access to enter state lands, camp, hunt, etc. I believe it is illegal (according to the law) to remove any mineral material, even the small quantities generally taken by rockhounds (rockpigs excluded of course), but this is generally ignored--the concern is only with commercial quantities/mining. In Montana, the state lands are closed to all access without a permit. Only recently has this been changed so that a permit includes such things as a hunting or fishing license. > > best, > Don > > And the way it is going, less and less and less land will be available each year. Regards, Lanny From murowchickj at umkc.edu Tue Aug 15 12:34:23 2006 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Tue Aug 15 12:37:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crystal forms Message-ID: Don- I?m not very familiar with the crystal-draying software from Europe (I did see the other responces you received, and some of that software looks pretty good. However, it was for Wintel platforms, and I?m primarily using Macs for the crystal form and structure drawing, so I can?t really advise you on them. But some of the features I would look for include: Entering faces using Miller indices Ability to enter the class (point group) and unit cell parameters Ability to rotate the drawing, or at least redraw it in a new orientation Export image to other drawing or word-processing apps (as gif, jpg, tif, pict, png, etc.) Bells and whistles would include the ability to label faces, show or hide axes, draw distorted crystals (non-ideal habit, such as tabular quartz), stereo pairs, twinning, and color. For a crystal structure-drawing app, I?d at least look for: Ease of atom entry, using traditional atom fractional cell coordinates x, y, and z, unit ceell parameters, and space group. Ability to define bond lengths or at least which atoms are bonded to one another Ability to rotate structure or at least view it in different directions Ability to define the size of the structure (i.e., how many unit cells in each direction) Choices in the atoms? color, size, etc. Bell and whistles: Ability to show only certain atoms, but not others Wide variety of atom styles?space-filling, ball and stick, polyhedral groups, etc. Flexibility in labeling atoms Variable lighting direction Perspective Stereo pairs Ability to calculate an XRD diffraction pattern from the structure (very useful when trying to relate substitutions , deformation, or defects to an experimental diffraction pattern) Determine what your needs are?do you just want to draw a crystal, or do you plan to use the app as a tool to explore the crystal morphology or structure? You might find a freeware or shareware program for the former, but to get useful info with ease of use, you?ll probably need a commercial application ( and it might be worth saving for it, if you think you?ll use it). You might take a look at the IUCR?s Collaborative Computational Project 14 at http://www.ccp14.ac.uk/mirror/mirror.htm. This site has dozens of crystallography programs mostly for X-ray crystallography. There might be some listed for drawing crystals or structures, though. Sorry for the long e-mail. I hope this helps some. Jim Murowchick Don H wrote: And there is another program, written by a German or Netherlands fellow who sometimes attends the Rochester Symposium (somebdy help me out here--maybe I've got a little temporary amnesia after all), that is more user-friendly and fairly inexpensive, but I forget the name and can't find the CD at the moment. Anyone? Last name Ottens? Kristal something? I can find a Bert Ottens relating to minerals using both Yahoo and Google, but not his software. Anyway, I bet there are more. Jim, what do you recommend for the beginning user on a budget--as I say, what gets the most bang for the buck? Don -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Aug 15 15:19:52 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Aug 15 15:17:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jolly balance References: <44E1BE65.6070002@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <44E247F4.7D1E@Tomaszewski.net> Kenny Gay wrote: > > List, > The geological survey is beginning to put together notes for a report on > the minerals of North Carolina. > NOT a collecting guide! > I'm doing this on a shoe-string budget. I need to use all the > inexpensive methods I can. > Does anyone know where I could get a jolly balance? I have Sinkankas, > but I'm not a good builder. > Any suggestions, comments, help, is greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Kenny > NC Geological Survey Kenny, I have a standard lab balance that can be mounted on a ring stand (with a weight on the ring stand base so it doesn't tip over) to lift it a foot or two off the table. I took a 3 gram length of stainless wire and bent it so it hooks over the balance pan and hangs down to table height, with square loop at the bottom to set specimens in. I offset the wire weight with 3 grams. weigh in air, move the specimen down, and weigh in water (a beaker sitting on the table top). Works great. Kreigh From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Aug 15 15:34:00 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Aug 15 15:34:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jolly balance Message-ID: <081520062234.19799.44E24BD7000E085200004D57216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Kenny, May I ask, just why you need the Jolly balance? (not trying to second-guess you or anything, just wondering) There are only a limited number of times when measuring s.g. with a balance like this is really necessary or useful for determining what a mineral is--one good example is telling quartz from topaz. Usually there are other characteristics one can use, and of course, it requires a quite pure piece of the mineral in question, to use the s.g. method. And of course, the s.g. of all the minerals is already known and one can readily look them up, it isn't often necessary for any reason, to determine this on one's own specimen. That being said, what I use is a Cent-o-Gram (Ohaus) beam balance, which comes with a vertical post and small adjustable arm next to the balance pan, so one can easily position a beaker or cup of water above the pan, weigh the mineral while it is suspended in water. It's very convenient to use, and any institution might (perhaps) have one of these kicking around, suitable for use. Sincerely, Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from Kenny Gay : -------------- > List, > The geological survey is beginning to put together notes for a report on > the minerals of North Carolina. > NOT a collecting guide! > I'm doing this on a shoe-string budget. I need to use all the > inexpensive methods I can. > Does anyone know where I could get a jolly balance? I have Sinkankas, > but I'm not a good builder. > Any suggestions, comments, help, is greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Kenny > NC Geological Survey > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Aug 15 15:53:06 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Aug 15 15:50:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] HIGHLAND PARK MODEL A -3 DOUBLE WHEEL GRINDER Message-ID: <44E24FB8.11D8@Tomaszewski.net> If anyone on the List is interested in purchasing this grinder please contact Wallace directly... Hello Kreigh, I have a HIGHLAND PARK MODEL A -3 DOUBLE WHEEL GRINDER in excellent condition. The rocks are very fine grit they are 10" dia. X 1-1/2" wide and are water cooled. I am 75 years old and out of room . I need to sell this machine would you know anyone that might like to have it ? Any help would be appreciated. I am at Mineola, TX about 70 miles east of Dallas TX or 24 miles from Tyler, TX. Thanks, Wallace Mcpeak 903-569-2655 "Wallace McPeak" From jlkelly1066 at iglide.net Wed Aug 16 05:30:57 2006 From: jlkelly1066 at iglide.net (JL Kelly) Date: Wed Aug 16 05:31:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <200608160102.k7G12QO1002283@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200608160102.k7G12QO1002283@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <44E31001.4000102@iglide.net> Not toooo long ago someone published or left the link to a neat little web site in which he had listed a gazillion different gems and minerals, where they were found, characteristics, etc. Lost the page, (drive crash) was wondering and hoping someone might have it. Gotta share, my granddaughters were over a couple of weeks ago, the 4th of July. The eldest was wandering through the rock house and around the yard showing her little sisters all of "grandpa's rocks." telling them what each one was and where I had collected it (she was pretty darn good and nearly completely correct. Us bigun's were sitting over by the BBQ talking when the girls came up, each carrying a rock, (the littlest had the largest rock). They looked up at me and said, "Grandpa, will you cut these for us?" My son looked at me and said, "Good grief dad, what's next, now they think you can cut rocks." Taelyn, the oldest girl looked at him and said, "Dad, of course he can cut rocks, he's grandpa!" What's a guy to do. I took them in the shop, uncovered the saws and cut three rocks, polished them to. After all, I'm grandpa. Ain't this hobby grand!!! Kelly in SLC From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 05:41:46 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Aug 16 05:41:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <44E31001.4000102@iglide.net> References: <200608160102.k7G12QO1002283@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <44E31001.4000102@iglide.net> Message-ID: Was it Mindat? http://www.mindat.org/ BK On 8/16/06, JL Kelly wrote: > > > Not toooo long ago someone published or left the link to a neat > little web site in which he had listed a gazillion different gems and > minerals, where they were found, characteristics, etc. Lost the page, > (drive crash) was wondering and hoping someone might have it. > Gotta share, my granddaughters were over a couple of weeks ago, the 4th > of July. The eldest was wandering through the rock house and around the > yard showing her little sisters all of "grandpa's rocks." telling them > what each one was and where I had collected it (she was pretty darn good > and nearly completely correct. > Us bigun's were sitting over by the BBQ talking when the girls came > up, each carrying a rock, (the littlest had the largest rock). They > looked up at me and said, "Grandpa, will you cut these for us?" > My son looked at me and said, "Good grief dad, what's next, now > they think you can cut rocks." > Taelyn, the oldest girl looked at him and said, "Dad, of course he > can cut rocks, he's grandpa!" > What's a guy to do. I took them in the shop, uncovered the saws > and cut three rocks, polished them to. After all, I'm grandpa. > Ain't this hobby grand!!! > > Kelly in SLC > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Aug 16 06:07:00 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Aug 16 06:07:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Another meteorite in Norway Message-ID: <7aac8040608160607x5ed9ec4bnc990a3ca6d8be9a6@mail.gmail.com> Seems Norway is getting it's fair share of meteorites this summer, an exceprt, "This is an exceptional find! This is the first time since 1969 that a meteorite has gone through a roof anywhere in Europe. The meteorite is a so-called carbon - CO-meteorite. Previously only five falls of CO-meteorites have been observed on Earth, and the last one occurred in Russia in 1937," said an enthusiastic ?degaard." http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1415787.ece Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Wed Aug 16 10:10:09 2006 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Wed Aug 16 10:10:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jolly Balance Message-ID: Hi Kenny, I've never heard of a "Jolly" balance before, either, but if you could provide me/us with some sense of the size of the objects you wish to weight, that might help us all out, significantly. For what it's worth, I have an old handheld gram scale (balance) that's usable in the field for objects of up to an ounce or two, and is yours for the asking, if you'll email me your mailing address. (My uncle had picked it up for me at a tool sale, a decade or so ago, and I've never had a use for it, since everything I weigh tensds to be in carats.) Additionally, I know of any number of electronic balances that measure up to a half kg., or so, in tenths of a gram. Let me kn ow of your needs, and I'll help out, if I can. All the best, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Aug 16 11:13:18 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Aug 16 11:11:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jolly Balance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44E3603E.6060507@verizon.net> Douglas Turet wrote: > Hi Kenny, > > I've never heard of a "Jolly" balance before, either, Dear Doug, A Jolly balance is an instrument for measuring specific gravity: http://humboldt.edu/~scimus/Instruments/JolBal-Johan/JolBal.htm.htm There are a number of ways to measure SG, which is the ratio of the mass of an object to the mass of an equal volume of pure water. Using a Jolly or Berman balance is the most inexpensive way. http://xrpc4.harvard.edu/Berman.html The mineralogist Orsino C. Smith also designed a balance you could create yourself from his plans in the book. The alternatives can be extremely expensive, and sometimes toxic. I just ordered 500g grams of a politically correct material called sodium polytungstate, which has a maximum specific gravity of about 3.0 in saturated solution, and it costs almost a dollar per gram. This is the new, safe alternative but it has limitations. Not only that, the 500g of powder will only make a small amount of saturated solution, and the resultant liquid is very viscous and it takes quite a while for the heavy fractions to settle out. Someone gave me a pint each of the traditional and nastier heavy liquids such as methylene iodide and monobromonapthalene as a going-to-school present, which I keep in reserve because they are easier to use and one of them has an SG above 3.0. The notorious Clerici's Solution, thallium malonate formate, has a maximum SG of about 4.0 and is still sold, but is also extremely expensive and requires extra precautions in handling. (If you ever want to give a chem store clerk multiple strokes and heart attacks, walk up to the window and say "Hi I'd like a liter of Clerici's Solution, a liter of hydrofluoric acid, and 5 gallons of chromic acid.") That's just the beginning. Once you get your sample suspended in the solution by adding the proper dilutant, you then must discover the SG of the solution you've mixed by using two more expensive devices, and serialized calibrated pycnometer and a serialized calibrated analytical balance. After all that, you'll find that the accuracy and precision of your measurement is sandbagged by your serialized calibrated thermometer, which is readable to 0.1 deg. C, so at room temperatures limits your measurement to 3 significant figures; and since most pycnometers are tiny, I'm just now remembering that the milliliter volume of that device also limits your significant figures. Therefore, for the purposes of using a fancy analytical balance to find a mass to enter into a specfic gravity calculation, the 0.00001g readability of my Mettler balance is big overkill. Probably more than you wanted to know. Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Aug 16 16:18:37 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Aug 16 16:13:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) References: <200608160102.k7G12QO1002283@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <44E31001.4000102@iglide.net> Message-ID: <44E3A671.2D2A@Tomaszewski.net> JL Kelly wrote: > > Not toooo long ago someone published or left the link to a neat > little web site in which he had listed a gazillion different gems and > minerals, where they were found, characteristics, etc. Lost the page, Try http://ww.mindat.org http://www.webmineral.com From jemstone at amug.org Wed Aug 16 17:55:01 2006 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Wed Aug 16 17:55:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NFMS Labor Day Field Trip Prineville OR References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060804182741.0374d378@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <013801c6c197$c5c089b0$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> I just got back from the Prineville area after wandering about with a laptop, a mapping GPS and Tim Fisher's new DVD. While it's not exactly in the Prineville locality, the back entrance to the Paulina limb cast area (in the BLM Wilderness Study area) provided excellent collecting. My young rockhounding partner walked the hills to the west of the main road through the Study area, just south of Tim's pink limb cast #4 location. He collected some outstanding limb casts and some excellent petrified wood. He also found some pieces that had a combination of petrified wood and silica replacement of the hollow cast portion of the piece. That area can be accessed from near Sulfur Spring, which is next to the main Study area road. In the Ochocos we had fun at the thunder egg collecting areas. Oregonians prize the solid nodules while those of us from Arizona like hollow eggs, generally called geodes. We found several geodes that were discarded as they were not solid. However, the best collecting was at Kop and Cindy's place at the Lucky Strike claim. Kop had surgery just after we visited with him, but if the surgery was successful he should be back on the claim soon and will be walking much better. They have the Lucky Strike thunder eggs, but far more interesting is the Blue Mountain Jasper from Kop's claim in eastern Oregon. A chunk of Blue Mountain jasper I bought from him two years ago cut a small slab with great patterns and salmon, red, blue, green, white, brown and black colors (I can send a photo for those interested in seeing Blue Mountain jasper). Kop also had some outstanding red orbicular jasper from near Bouse, Arizona that I had never seen. Kop has mellowed over time and has an inexhaustible supply of rockhounding stories and Cindy is a sweet, well armed and knowledgeable person. She will carry on the mining when Kop eventually passes. The forest service has been after their claims, but Cindy can and will hold her own. For those of you who like to dig Sunstones, the Dust Devil mine has been producing green/blue faceting quality stones. Most of these are dichroic. The stones require digging in the banks on the south end of the pit. Most are much longer than wide and will look great when faceted in an emerald cut. The stones are not as plentiful as they were several years ago, but they are there for those who are serious about finding them. Two days before we arrived at the Dust Devil a casual digger found a blue/green dichroic stone. It was in three pieces and weighed over 800 carats. Merle, the on-site facetor, showed me the middle sized stone that he was faceting for the digger. My response was an inarticulate "WOW" with a bit of drooling. My digging partner landed a 103 carat blue/green stone with about 50 carats of clear excellent color. It will yield at least a 15 carat emerald cut stone. The Dust Devil folks have almost finished their optical sorter - it should be running by now. This is one of the first optical sorters used in a small gem stone mine. The guys are very proud of it and, if you are technically oriented, Terry Clark, the main sorter fabricator, will show you how it works. For those joining the Ochoco field trip, be sure to visit the two excellent rock shops in Prineville. The Quant Rock Shop and Elkins Gem Stones have large amounts of local material at great prices. Both are run by the daughters of very early rockhounds in the Prineville area - the men were probably competitors. I found a 10 pound Hampton Butte green moss agate limb cast, polished on one end. The price was excellent and my chances of actually collecting one are less than winning a state lottery. There are piles of rough material from the area at both shops, all at great prices (starting at 50 cents per pound). John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona jemstone@amug.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" Subject: [Rockhounds] NFMS Labor Day Field Trip Prineville OR > Just a short note to remind everyone of the upcoming field trip that I am > leading to the Ochoco Mtns & Prineville area sponsored by the Northwest > Federation. We will be collecting thundereggs, tube, moss, and possibly > plume agate, jasper, petrified wood, possibly limb casts, leaf fossils and > ammonites, and other misc stuff lol. It all depends on what the group > wants to do. . . . . From jlkelly1066 at iglide.net Thu Aug 17 05:36:02 2006 From: jlkelly1066 at iglide.net (JL Kelly) Date: Thu Aug 17 05:36:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 27, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: <200608170102.k7H12cxx022696@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200608170102.k7H12cxx022696@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <44E462B2.9040106@iglide.net> You guys are the greatest. Received the information on the Mindat.org data base from a couple of you on-line and about a dozen off-line. Who says communication and friends is gone? While I'm thinking about it, As the Utah deserts begin to cool down just want to let anyone who is interested that I am one of those rock nuts who just loves sharing information about places I love. If you're going to be in the intermountain west for collecting i.e. Utah, Nevada, Wyoming, drop me a line, happy to help and if I have the time show some beautiful sites. Kelly From jg81638 at aol.com Thu Aug 17 08:11:53 2006 From: jg81638 at aol.com (jg81638@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 17 08:12:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 27, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: <44E462B2.9040106@iglide.net> References: <200608170102.k7H12cxx022696@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <44E462B2.9040106@iglide.net> Message-ID: <8C890269B191674-570-6065@MBLK-M25.sysops.aol.com> Hi Kelly I have a strange request. I am a collector of concretions and one of the types of concretions that I am currently very interested in is/are the moqui marbles that are apparently being eroded out of the Navjo Sandstone in SW Utah. I'm trying to determine how these concretions came to be and for the next stage in my investigation I need a sample of the sandstone itself, preferable with one or more of the balls still in matrix. Should you come across such a sample I would be most grateful if you could send it along. I will pay postage and incidental expenses. My field trips have been curtailed in the last decade or so by a (fortunately mild) case of multiple sclerosis so my collecting is done by proxy these days. Jim Groves jg81638@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: jlkelly1066@iglide.net To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 8:36 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 27, Issue 19 You guys are the greatest. Received the information on the Mindat.org data base from a couple of you on-line and about a dozen off-line. Who says communication and friends is gone? While I'm thinking about it, As the Utah deserts begin to cool down just want to let anyone who is interested that I am one of those rock nuts who just loves sharing information about places I love. If you're going to be in the intermountain west for collecting i.e. Utah, Nevada, Wyoming, drop me a line, happy to help and if I have the time show some beautiful sites. Kelly -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Aug 17 08:39:37 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Aug 17 08:39:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals Message-ID: <20060817153937.36416.qmail@web34309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This month's update is a little late, since I just returned from a two week field trip to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. I'll be posting a report on the trip on my website soon. The new listings include more material from Laurium, Greece, some nice meta-autunite from Portugal, and some new mounted specimens, including moschellansbergite from Bad Ems, Germany Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Thu Aug 17 09:15:49 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Aug 17 09:15:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: (hematite nodules, moqui marbles) In-Reply-To: <8C890269B191674-570-6065@MBLK-M25.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20060817161549.8E44A4D499@io.frii.com> Jim et al, jumping in with my $0.02 worth -- Moqui marbles, as they are called, exist in SE Utah too, not just SW, and in many other places I'm sure. They range from barely cohesive gritty little balls, to bigger (up to palm size) round or flattened shapes, to connected masses that are more like "popcorn rocks". Around Glen Canyon you only see softer ones, not really hard, smooth, and more-metallic ones like some you can buy at some rock shops. But in any case I believe they are due to hematite concreting within the sandstone. You can also find odd dark layers, veins, and other blobby shapes that are apparently hematized, and which often weather out loose from the sandstone over millennia. I've even seen some "logs" sitting on the slickrock (massive, bare, sandstone terrain) that really looked like fossil logs, but probably weren't. (Although in the Dakota sandstone on Dinosaur Ridge west of Denver, you can see holes and other shapes that were in fact weak fossils or casts from tree nuts or limbs.) It's quite common to see a big rock slab or boulder with its surface peppered with halfway-eroded, marble-sized concretions. In some areas the little balls, once loose, collect in hollows forming a sort of "desert pavement" that I refer to as a "marble quarry". Trivia: Slickrock is not called that because it's slippery, it's not, even when wet, unless so perennially wet that algae grows on it. It's called slickrock because the metal-shod feet of horses/etc can't get a grip on it. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Aug 17 21:00:15 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Aug 17 20:50:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: (hematite nodules, moqui marbles) References: <20060817161549.8E44A4D499@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <44E53904.20BB@Tomaszewski.net> I acquired my Moqui Marbles from J&R's Rock Shop in Idaho. Bob had worked with several geologists in studying these hematite oddities, and we spent quite a while discussing them. Their understanding was that moqui's were fossil bubbles, formed in undersea, hematite enriched, sand, and generated by deep volcano's releasing superheated gas into the sand, causing it to form a hematite shell (usually with sand inside) before hardening. I'm still waiting for a better explanation of how they formed, Kreigh Alan Silverstein wrote: > > Jim et al, jumping in with my $0.02 worth -- > > Moqui marbles, as they are called, exist in SE Utah too, not just SW, > and in many other places I'm sure. They range from barely cohesive > gritty little balls, to bigger (up to palm size) round or flattened > shapes, to connected masses that are more like "popcorn rocks". > > Around Glen Canyon you only see softer ones, not really hard, smooth, > and more-metallic ones like some you can buy at some rock shops. But in > any case I believe they are due to hematite concreting within the > sandstone. You can also find odd dark layers, veins, and other blobby > shapes that are apparently hematized, and which often weather out loose > from the sandstone over millennia. I've even seen some "logs" sitting > on the slickrock (massive, bare, sandstone terrain) that really looked > like fossil logs, but probably weren't. (Although in the Dakota > sandstone on Dinosaur Ridge west of Denver, you can see holes and other > shapes that were in fact weak fossils or casts from tree nuts or limbs.) > > It's quite common to see a big rock slab or boulder with its surface > peppered with halfway-eroded, marble-sized concretions. In some areas > the little balls, once loose, collect in hollows forming a sort of > "desert pavement" that I refer to as a "marble quarry". > > Trivia: Slickrock is not called that because it's slippery, it's not, > even when wet, unless so perennially wet that algae grows on it. It's > called slickrock because the metal-shod feet of horses/etc can't get a > grip on it. > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein From jlkelly1066 at iglide.net Thu Aug 17 21:20:41 2006 From: jlkelly1066 at iglide.net (JL Kelly) Date: Thu Aug 17 21:21:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 27, Issue 20 In-Reply-To: <200608180102.k7I12hIQ008630@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200608180102.k7I12hIQ008630@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <44E54019.5030309@iglide.net> Right on Alan! In truth, Moqui Marbles can and are found all over the SW. Admitted probably the most famous and the largest deposit is at Spencer Flat outside of Escalante, UT. Fer all you foreigners that is now part of the Escalante Staircase National Monument that our erstwhile "former" president , well, I won't go into to it. You all might get a kick out of the fact that when whatshisname signed the legislation setting the National Monument aside he particularly named Moqui Marbles a "National Treasure." Yeah, I'm serious. Geologist out of Uof Utah says you could go to Spencer Flat and give five Moqui Marbles to every man, woman and child who has, is living or will live on this earth and you would still have enough of the silly concretions to build a freeway between Salt Lake City and St. George, UT with marbles left over. Final point, it is a $5,000 fine for collecting, as in being found with one (1) of the silly things in your car. And then I see the signs at Tuscon advertising "Living" Moqui Marbles. Kinda like the school teacher who called me the other day and wanted to know where she could find trilobites. I told her and she objected and said, "No, I want living ones, not fossils! I've seen them and was told you could get them for me." I told her I would work on it. Ya'll have a great day. Kelly Message: 4 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:15:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Alan Silverstein Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: (hematite nodules, moqui marbles) To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Cc: ajs@frii.com Message-ID: <20060817161549.8E44A4D499@io.frii.com> Jim et al, jumping in with my $0.02 worth -- Moqui marbles, as they are called, exist in SE Utah too, not just SW, and in many other places I'm sure. They range from barely cohesive gritty little balls, to bigger (up to palm size) round or flattened shapes, to connected masses that are more like "popcorn rocks". Around Glen Canyon you only see softer ones, not really hard, smooth, and more-metallic ones like some you can buy at some rock shops. But in any case I believe they are due to hematite concreting within the sandstone. You can also find odd dark layers, veins, and other blobby shapes that are apparently hematized, and which often weather out loose from the sandstone over millennia. I've even seen some "logs" sitting on the slickrock (massive, bare, sandstone terrain) that really looked like fossil logs, but probably weren't. (Although in the Dakota sandstone on Dinosaur Ridge west of Denver, you can see holes and other shapes that were in fact weak fossils or casts from tree nuts or limbs.) It's quite common to see a big rock slab or boulder with its surface peppered with halfway-eroded, marble-sized concretions. In some areas the little balls, once loose, collect in hollows forming a sort of "desert pavement" that I refer to as a "marble quarry". Trivia: Slickrock is not called that because it's slippery, it's not, even when wet, unless so perennially wet that algae grows on it. It's called slickrock because the metal-shod feet of horses/etc can't get a grip on it. Cheers, Alan Silverstein . > From ajs at frii.com Thu Aug 17 22:00:32 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Aug 17 22:00:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: (hematite nodules, moqui marbles) In-Reply-To: <44E53904.20BB@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20060818050032.BE1E64D499@io.frii.com> > Their understanding was that moqui's were fossil bubbles, formed in > undersea, hematite enriched, sand, and generated by deep volcano's > releasing superheated gas into the sand, causing it to form a hematite > shell (usually with sand inside) before hardening. Hmm... You know, maybe the hard-shelled, metallic-looking ones did form that way? I'm pretty sure the softer ones without a shell are just concretions. You can tell from how they form in and weather out of the host rock. In particular, just like the "blueberries" on Mars, the layers continue through the concretions in many cases. Alan Silverstein From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Aug 18 08:20:17 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Aug 18 08:19:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 27, Issue 20 In-Reply-To: <44E54019.5030309@iglide.net> Message-ID: Entirely tongue-in-cheek, all cheerful and just attempting to discourage the use of enigmatic titles on a discussion list that sometimes spews out a dozen or more messages per day. Would there be a mineral named "volumetwentysevenissuetwentyite"? If not, I would be inclined to delete any message with such a... well, I'd have to say "bureaucratic" title, without even reading it. I have already so much e-mail that I don't care to miss a few. And "poof" ... it's gone! (Poof being the sound of the DEL-key) Wonder what it was about ;-))))) > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens JL Kelly > Verzonden: vrijdag 18 augustus 2006 5:21 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 27, Issue 20 > >MESSAGE FROM THE SORRY-DAEMON@nuts.donthurt > > We sincerely regret to inform you that your message >has been deleted due to the intensely boring and numbingly uninteresting title. >If you have a problem with Digestion or Volume, please contact your nearest Dietician. >If you have Issues, please go see a psychiatrist. >If you just want to talk about moqui marbles... why don't you just say so? Cheers Axel From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Fri Aug 18 08:34:25 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Fri Aug 18 08:34:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NFMS Labor Day Field Trip Prineville OR In-Reply-To: <013801c6c197$c5c089b0$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060804182741.0374d378@orerockon.com> <013801c6c197$c5c089b0$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <44E5DE01.3050204@tenforward.com> Hi John, Thank you for taking the time to post this most excellent report. There is a wonderful amount of very good information here offered in a very readable style and personally, I'm bummed your paper wasn't longer :-) ... a very nice read. All the very best and thank you again! John John McLaughlin wrote: > I just got back from the Prineville area after wandering about with a > laptop, a mapping GPS and Tim Fisher's new DVD. While it's not > exactly in the Prineville locality, the back entrance to the Paulina > limb cast area (in the BLM Wilderness Study area) provided excellent > collecting. My young rockhounding partner walked the hills to the > west of the main road through the Study area, just south of Tim's pink > limb cast #4 location. He collected some outstanding limb casts and > some excellent petrified wood. He also found some pieces that had a > combination of petrified wood and silica replacement of the hollow > cast portion of the piece. That area can be accessed from near Sulfur > Spring, which is next to the main Study area road. > > In the Ochocos we had fun at the thunder egg collecting areas. > Oregonians prize the solid nodules while those of us from Arizona like > hollow eggs, generally called geodes. We found several geodes that > were discarded as they were not solid. However, the best collecting > was at Kop and Cindy's place at the Lucky Strike claim. Kop had > surgery just after we visited with him, but if the surgery was > successful he should be back on the claim soon and will be walking > much better. They have the Lucky Strike thunder eggs, but far more > interesting is the Blue Mountain Jasper from Kop's claim in eastern > Oregon. A chunk of Blue Mountain jasper I bought from him two years > ago cut a small slab with great patterns and salmon, red, blue, green, > white, brown and black colors (I can send a photo for those interested > in seeing Blue Mountain jasper). Kop also had some outstanding red > orbicular jasper from near Bouse, Arizona that I had never seen. Kop > has mellowed over time and has an inexhaustible supply of rockhounding > stories and Cindy is a sweet, well armed and knowledgeable person. > She will carry on the mining when Kop eventually passes. The forest > service has been after their claims, but Cindy can and will hold her own. > > For those of you who like to dig Sunstones, the Dust Devil mine has > been producing green/blue faceting quality stones. Most of these are > dichroic. The stones require digging in the banks on the south end of > the pit. Most are much longer than wide and will look great when > faceted in an emerald cut. The stones are not as plentiful as they > were several years ago, but they are there for those who are serious > about finding them. > > Two days before we arrived at the Dust Devil a casual digger found a > blue/green dichroic stone. It was in three pieces and weighed over > 800 carats. Merle, the on-site facetor, showed me the middle sized > stone that he was faceting for the digger. My response was an > inarticulate "WOW" with a bit of drooling. My digging partner landed > a 103 carat blue/green stone with about 50 carats of clear excellent > color. It will yield at least a 15 carat emerald cut stone. The Dust > Devil folks have almost finished their optical sorter - it should be > running by now. This is one of the first optical sorters used in a > small gem stone mine. The guys are very proud of it and, if you are > technically oriented, Terry Clark, the main sorter fabricator, will > show you how it works. > > For those joining the Ochoco field trip, be sure to visit the two > excellent rock shops in Prineville. The Quant Rock Shop and Elkins > Gem Stones have large amounts of local material at great prices. Both > are run by the daughters of very early rockhounds in the Prineville > area - the men were probably competitors. I found a 10 pound Hampton > Butte green moss agate limb cast, polished on one end. The price was > excellent and my chances of actually collecting one are less than > winning a state lottery. There are piles of rough material from the > area at both shops, all at great prices (starting at 50 cents per pound). > > John McLaughlin > Glendale, Arizona > jemstone@amug.org > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" > Subject: [Rockhounds] NFMS Labor Day Field Trip Prineville OR > > >> Just a short note to remind everyone of the upcoming field trip that >> I am leading to the Ochoco Mtns & Prineville area sponsored by the >> Northwest Federation. We will be collecting thundereggs, tube, moss, >> and possibly plume agate, jasper, petrified wood, possibly limb >> casts, leaf fossils and ammonites, and other misc stuff lol. It all >> depends on what the group wants to do. . . . . > > From kadok at infowest.com Fri Aug 18 08:44:55 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Aug 18 08:44:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: (hematite nodules, moqui marbles) In-Reply-To: <44E53904.20BB@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001b01c6c2dd$4124a780$0200a8c0@kadok> Hi, Kreigh Our local - Zion - Moqui marbles are found in the Navajo sandstone. The Navajo is ancient desert sand dunes. There was hematite deposited in it from time to time, as evidenced by the hematite-rich caps on the "hoodoos" found in some places. I believe these hematite deposts played a larger part in the formation of the terrain over there than they are usually give credit for; the (flat) tops of most of the large rock formations on the east side of Zion (at least those I've been able to see) are fairly well covered by now broken up sheets of hematite-rich material. The area was under a sea at one time; the Carmel formation up above is evidence of that. (And it furnished the calcium that cemented the sandstone.) There were volcanoes in the area, too. But they are younger, not older (and thus not deeper). I have heard several theories about the formation of the Moqui marbles, most of which are pretty "fuzzy". This one seems to make more sense. **Except** that the volcanoes here were quite recent. Guess I'm still waiting for a "better" explanation, too! Margaret >I acquired my Moqui Marbles from J&R's Rock Shop in Idaho. Bob had >worked with several geologists in studying these hematite oddities, and >we spent quite a while discussing them. >Their understanding was that moqui's were fossil bubbles, formed in >undersea, hematite enriched, sand, and generated by deep volcano's >releasing superheated gas into the sand, causing it to form a hematite >shell (usually with sand inside) before hardening. >I'm still waiting for a better explanation of how they formed, >Kreigh Alan Silverstein wrote: > > Jim et al, jumping in with my $0.02 worth -- > > Moqui marbles, as they are called, exist in SE Utah too, not just SW, > and in many other places I'm sure. They range from barely cohesive > gritty little balls, to bigger (up to palm size) round or flattened > shapes, to connected masses that are more like "popcorn rocks". > > Around Glen Canyon you only see softer ones, not really hard, smooth, > and more-metallic ones like some you can buy at some rock shops. But in > any case I believe they are due to hematite concreting within the > sandstone. You can also find odd dark layers, veins, and other blobby > shapes that are apparently hematized, and which often weather out loose > from the sandstone over millennia. I've even seen some "logs" sitting > on the slickrock (massive, bare, sandstone terrain) that really looked > like fossil logs, but probably weren't. (Although in the Dakota > sandstone on Dinosaur Ridge west of Denver, you can see holes and other > shapes that were in fact weak fossils or casts from tree nuts or limbs.) > > It's quite common to see a big rock slab or boulder with its surface > peppered with halfway-eroded, marble-sized concretions. In some areas > the little balls, once loose, collect in hollows forming a sort of > "desert pavement" that I refer to as a "marble quarry". > > Trivia: Slickrock is not called that because it's slippery, it's not, > even when wet, unless so perennially wet that algae grows on it. It's > called slickrock because the metal-shod feet of horses/etc can't get a > grip on it. > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Aug 18 11:27:39 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Aug 18 11:27:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Living Trilobites Message-ID: Tell the teacher they are now evolved into the Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches available at many pet stores. And likely to be one of the next introduced pests in many areas. Glenn Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:20:41 -0600 From: jlkelly1066@iglide.net Kinda like the school teacher who called me the other day and wanted to know where she could find trilobites. I told her and she objected and said, "No, I want living ones, not fossils! I've seen them and was told you could get them for me." I told her I would work on it. Ya'll have a great day. Kelly _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care about in one place. http://www.live.com/getstarted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Fri Aug 18 12:35:58 2006 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Fri Aug 18 12:36:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Living Trilobites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry to differ, Glenn, but Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches are not evolved living trilobites. MHCs are insects, not arthropods. If JL Kelly's school teacher really wanted to raise living trilobites, she should try Horseshoe Crabs, Limulus polyphennus. Fossils of horseshoe crabs have been dated at 360 million years old. They evolved in the shallow seas of the Paleozoic Era (540-248 million years ago) with other primitive arthropods called trilobites, a long extinct close relative of the horseshoe crab. A lot of information about horseshoe crabs can be found at the State of Maryland's DNR website, including information about raising them in the classroom. Check out: http://www.dnr.state.md.us/education/horseshoecrab/lifehistory.html Horsehoe crabs have amazing medical applications in today's world but I think it is only a myth that they also are the source of "crabby cakes" on the Spongebob Squarepants cartoon show. Donald L. Tuttle SCOUTGRAPHICS INK INK PO Box 548 Unadilla, NY 13849 Visit us at our webpage: http://www.scoutgraphicsink.net >From: "Glenn Wimpee" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "JL Kelly" >Subject: [Rockhounds] Living Trilobites >Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:27:39 -0500 > >Tell the teacher they are now evolved into the Madagascar Hissing >Cockroaches available at many pet stores. > >And likely to be one of the next introduced pests in many areas. >Glenn > > > > > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:20:41 -0600 From: jlkelly1066@iglide.net > Kinda like the school teacher who called me the other day and wanted to >know where she could find trilobites. I told her and she objected and >said, "No, I want living ones, not fossils! I've seen them and was told >you could get them for me." I told her I would work on it. Ya'll have a >great day. Kelly >_________________________________________________________________ >Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you >care about in one place. >http://www.live.com/getstarted > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Fri Aug 18 12:58:06 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (MICHAEL SCHMIDT) Date: Fri Aug 18 12:58:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Living Trilobites Message-ID: <2b3969a2b3a964.2b3a9642b3969a@shaw.ca> on a serious note...maybe she's thinking about horeshoe crabs??? Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Wimpee Date: Friday, August 18, 2006 12:27 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Living Trilobites > Tell the teacher they are now evolved into the Madagascar Hissing > Cockroaches available at many pet stores. > > And likely to be one of the next introduced pests in many areas. > Glenn > > > > > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:20:41 -0600 From: jlkelly1066@iglide.net > Kinda like the school teacher who called me the other day and > wanted to know where she could find trilobites. I told her and > she objected and said, "No, I want living ones, not fossils! > I've seen them and was told you could get them for me." I told > her I would work on it. Ya'll have a great day. Kelly > _________________________________________________________________ > Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the > things you care about in one place. > http://www.live.com/getstarted > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Fri Aug 18 13:03:03 2006 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Fri Aug 18 13:03:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Living Trilobites Message-ID: Sorry to differ, Glenn, but Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches are not evolved living trilobites. MHCs are insects, not arthropods. If JL Kelly's school teacher really wanted to raise living trilobites, she should try Horseshoe Crabs, Limulus polyphennus. Fossils of horseshoe crabs have been dated at 360 million years old. They evolved in the shallow seas of the Paleozoic Era (540-248 million years ago) with other primitive arthropods called trilobites, a long extinct close relative of the horseshoe crab. A lot of information about horseshoe crabs can be found at the State of Maryland's DNR website, including information about raising them in the classroom. Check out: http://www.dnr.state.md.us/education/horseshoecrab/lifehistory.html Horsehoe crabs have amazing medical applications in today's world but I think it is only a myth that they also are the source of "crabby cakes" on the Spongebob Squarepants cartoon show. Donald L. Tuttle SCOUTGRAPHICS INK INK PO Box 548 Unadilla, NY 13849 Visit us at our webpage: http://www.scoutgraphicsink.net From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Aug 18 15:02:20 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Aug 18 15:02:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Living Trilobites References: Message-ID: <000001c6c312$36dc6940$570ba118@feldsparflash> If you google Triops, you will find you can purchase eggs for a tiny horseshoe crab-like creature that is a living fossil. Our club purchased a few set-ups (eggs, tiny aquariums & food) for our junior rockhounds. They are quite intersting. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Tuttle" To: Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 3:35 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Living Trilobites > Sorry to differ, Glenn, but Madagascar Hissing Cockroaches are not evolved > living trilobites. MHCs are insects, not arthropods. If JL Kelly's school > teacher really wanted to raise living trilobites, she should try Horseshoe > Crabs, Limulus polyphennus. Fossils of horseshoe crabs have been dated at > 360 million years old. They evolved in the shallow seas of the Paleozoic Era > (540-248 million years ago) with other primitive arthropods called > trilobites, a long extinct close relative of the horseshoe crab. > > A lot of information about horseshoe crabs can be found at the State of > Maryland's DNR website, including information about raising them in the > classroom. Check out: > > http://www.dnr.state.md.us/education/horseshoecrab/lifehistory.html > > Horsehoe crabs have amazing medical applications in today's world but I > think it is only a myth that they also are the source of "crabby cakes" on > the Spongebob Squarepants cartoon show. > > > Donald L. Tuttle > SCOUTGRAPHICS INK INK > PO Box 548 > Unadilla, NY 13849 > Visit us at our webpage: > http://www.scoutgraphicsink.net > > > > > > >From: "Glenn Wimpee" > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: "JL Kelly" > >Subject: [Rockhounds] Living Trilobites > >Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:27:39 -0500 > > > >Tell the teacher they are now evolved into the Madagascar Hissing > >Cockroaches available at many pet stores. > > > >And likely to be one of the next introduced pests in many areas. > >Glenn > > > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:20:41 -0600 From: jlkelly1066@iglide.net > > Kinda like the school teacher who called me the other day and wanted to > >know where she could find trilobites. I told her and she objected and > >said, "No, I want living ones, not fossils! I've seen them and was told > >you could get them for me." I told her I would work on it. Ya'll have a > >great day. Kelly > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you > >care about in one place. > >http://www.live.com/getstarted > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > >--- > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jemstone at amug.org Fri Aug 18 17:29:08 2006 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Fri Aug 18 17:29:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NFMS Labor Day Field Trip Prineville OR References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060804182741.0374d378@orerockon.com><013801c6c197$c5c089b0$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> <44E5DE01.3050204@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <005701c6c326$7cbdb9a0$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> Thanks for the kind words John. I did not actually intend the note to be a trip report - it was more to mention the two rock shops and Kop and Cindy. It just got out of hand. I enjoyed reading the photo report by Scott Kleine on your Peterson Mountain collecting. I've always thought that an excavator would be the perfect piece of rockhounding gear. Since I'm a big fan of quartz crystals, especially those with phantoms, the report was a real treat. I have dug many times at the Fat Jack mine, north of Phoenix and have found many scepters and phantoms, but none in the size range you encountered. I've attached a photo of the little Blue Mountain slab I polished. I now have enough Blue Mt. material to feel I can actually sell some slabs and cabochons of it. If you will be at the Inn Suites in February I'll see you then. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NFMS Labor Day Field Trip Prineville OR > Hi John, > > Thank you for taking the time to post this most excellent report. There is > a wonderful amount of very good information here offered in a very > readable style and personally, I'm bummed your paper wasn't longer :-) ... > a very nice read. > > All the very best and thank you again! > > John > > John McLaughlin wrote: > >> I just got back from the Prineville area after wandering about with a >> laptop, a mapping GPS and Tim Fisher's new DVD. While it's not exactly >> in the Prineville locality, the back entrance to the Paulina limb cast >> area (in the BLM Wilderness Study area) provided excellent collecting. >> My young rockhounding partner walked the hills to the west of the main >> road through the Study area, just south of Tim's pink limb cast #4 >> location. He collected some outstanding limb casts and some excellent >> petrified wood. He also found some pieces that had a combination of >> petrified wood and silica replacement of the hollow cast portion of the >> piece. That area can be accessed from near Sulfur Spring, which is next >> to the main Study area road. >> >> In the Ochocos we had fun at the thunder egg collecting areas. >> Oregonians prize the solid nodules while those of us from Arizona like >> hollow eggs, generally called geodes. We found several geodes that were >> discarded as they were not solid. However, the best collecting was at >> Kop and Cindy's place at the Lucky Strike claim. Kop had surgery just >> after we visited with him, but if the surgery was successful he should be >> back on the claim soon and will be walking much better. They have the >> Lucky Strike thunder eggs, but far more interesting is the Blue Mountain >> Jasper from Kop's claim in eastern Oregon. A chunk of Blue Mountain >> jasper I bought from him two years ago cut a small slab with great >> patterns and salmon, red, blue, green, white, brown and black colors (I >> can send a photo for those interested in seeing Blue Mountain jasper). >> Kop also had some outstanding red orbicular jasper from near Bouse, >> Arizona that I had never seen. Kop has mellowed over time and has an >> inexhaustible supply of rockhounding stories and Cindy is a sweet, well >> armed and knowledgeable person. She will carry on the mining when Kop >> eventually passes. The forest service has been after their claims, but >> Cindy can and will hold her own. >> >> For those of you who like to dig Sunstones, the Dust Devil mine has been >> producing green/blue faceting quality stones. Most of these are >> dichroic. The stones require digging in the banks on the south end of the >> pit. Most are much longer than wide and will look great when faceted in >> an emerald cut. The stones are not as plentiful as they were several >> years ago, but they are there for those who are serious about finding >> them. >> >> Two days before we arrived at the Dust Devil a casual digger found a >> blue/green dichroic stone. It was in three pieces and weighed over 800 >> carats. Merle, the on-site facetor, showed me the middle sized stone >> that he was faceting for the digger. My response was an inarticulate >> "WOW" with a bit of drooling. My digging partner landed a 103 carat >> blue/green stone with about 50 carats of clear excellent color. It will >> yield at least a 15 carat emerald cut stone. The Dust Devil folks have >> almost finished their optical sorter - it should be running by now. This >> is one of the first optical sorters used in a small gem stone mine. The >> guys are very proud of it and, if you are technically oriented, Terry >> Clark, the main sorter fabricator, will show you how it works. >> >> For those joining the Ochoco field trip, be sure to visit the two >> excellent rock shops in Prineville. The Quant Rock Shop and Elkins Gem >> Stones have large amounts of local material at great prices. Both are >> run by the daughters of very early rockhounds in the Prineville area - >> the men were probably competitors. I found a 10 pound Hampton Butte >> green moss agate limb cast, polished on one end. The price was excellent >> and my chances of actually collecting one are less than winning a state >> lottery. There are piles of rough material from the area at both shops, >> all at great prices (starting at 50 cents per pound). >> >> John McLaughlin >> Glendale, Arizona >> jemstone@amug.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) image/jpeg --- From jemstone at amug.org Fri Aug 18 17:31:47 2006 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Fri Aug 18 17:31:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NFMS Labor Day Field Trip Prineville OR References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060804182741.0374d378@orerockon.com><013801c6c197$c5c089b0$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> <44E5DE01.3050204@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <006701c6c326$db5d0d80$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> OOPS. Pardon my last post. I meant it to be private but I'm currently brain dead due to old age, lack of sleep and chemotherapy. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona From roughrock at gmail.com Fri Aug 18 18:10:38 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Fri Aug 18 18:10:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NFMS Labor Day Field Trip Prineville OR In-Reply-To: <006701c6c326$db5d0d80$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060804182741.0374d378@orerockon.com> <013801c6c197$c5c089b0$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> <44E5DE01.3050204@tenforward.com> <006701c6c326$db5d0d80$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: With all that on you plate, I'll forgive you ;-) I've had plenty of sleep and no chemo and I'm still brain dead part of the time. I think old age is enough. Good luck with the chemotherapy. Grant Chico, CA On 8/18/06, John McLaughlin wrote: > OOPS. Pardon my last post. I meant it to be private but I'm currently > brain dead due to old age, lack of sleep and chemotherapy. > > John McLaughlin > Glendale, Arizona > From hammerron at yahoo.com Sat Aug 19 09:55:50 2006 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sat Aug 19 09:55:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland Message-ID: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My sister told me that our local television news program showed a 550 pound quartz crystal that was discovered in Switzerland. Wow. Could anyone direct me to pictures of this or something similar? -Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Aug 19 10:19:20 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Aug 19 10:19:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Heh, don't need to go to Switzerland we have better right here in the US: http://www.wegnercrystalmines.com/22/is1.html scroll down. BK On 8/19/06, The Hammer wrote: > > My sister told me that our local television news program showed a 550 > pound quartz crystal that was discovered in Switzerland. Wow. Could anyone > direct me to pictures of this or something similar? > > -Ron > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 19 22:24:18 2006 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sat Aug 19 22:24:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert locks belately In-Reply-To: <000501c6b193$ef1b7220$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <20060820052418.98755.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> --- jaybates wrote: > It is my understanding that prior to Waterloo, the > English had a corner on > the flint market and poor ole Napoleon had to resort > to importing chertlocks > from China. Thanks, Jay---I've always wondered about "Chertlock Homes" EMan From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 20 00:17:25 2006 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun Aug 20 00:17:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] "Round Rocks" from Osceola, Missouri Impact Site Message-ID: <20060820071725.85846.qmail@web51015.mail.yahoo.com> In the auction link below there are a parcel of highly spherical rocks, which were probably shaped mechanically over time--naturally or otherwise. Not by asteroidal collision. (Simular stones are formed in natural potholes-Nature's own sphere grinder) Looking beyond the assumptions of the finder, anyone have thoughts as to how these really formed and why there are so many or them recovered? I am hard pressed to come up with a theory of how they could be impact related. ROUND ROCKS formed by Meteorite at Osceola impact site Interesting items-- yes, but someone paid a chunk of change for them. The finder has a few more auctions. Seems an astrobleme has been confrimed for this site. Now called the "WEAUBLEAU-OSCEOLA STRUCTURE" of SW Missouri. Both Impact breccia and planiarly deformed quartz grains are present at this 12 mile diameter site. And before anyone proposes it...I think we can safely assume these are not: Martian blueberries, Moqui marbles, NOR the missing 2112th thru 2138th Plutonian Planetettes-Planetos, whatever... Elton From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 20 00:42:29 2006 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun Aug 20 00:42:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: "Round Rocks" from Osceola, Missouri Impact Site In-Reply-To: <20060820071725.85846.qmail@web51015.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060820074229.7609.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com> Interesting follow up note as I Google about trying to visualize the dynamics and avoid broaching the "T word"--tektite. The article below speaks of them being shale kernals which upon falling back into the melangue over time became "chert concretions". I also noted that one of the affected formations is the Keokuk limestone of geode fame. "Missouri rock balls. One of the largest meteorite craters in the United States is in the state of Missouri where a rock 1,200 feet in diameter plunged into Earth's atmosphere sometime around 310 to 340 million years ago. It crashed into territory where we find the modern towns of Weaubleau and Osceola. The impact crater encircles the modern community of Vista, making it one of only two U.S. communities, along with Middlesboro, Kentucky, totally encircled by a meteorite crater or crater remnants, according to geologist George H. Davis, a member of the team that used shallow core drilling to investigate the Weaubleau-Osceola meteorite impact in July 2003. Osceola and Weaubleau are not within the impact crater. Geologists say such a quarter-mile-wide meteorite could explain how some rocks they found on the ground had come to be folded over and other rocks containing shattered quartz had ended up in the Ozark Mountains. Residents of the area around Osceola have found a lot of strange, perfectly-round rocks. Geologists theorize the round stone balls are chert concretions. They suggest the impact blasted up gravel-sized pieces of shale that fell back to the ground. Silica-rich solutions seeped in around the small shale pieces and hardened in place. Those chert concretions are evidence that the impact actually occurred, according to Davis. The folded rocks are visible in a local quarry and Davis describes them as "fascinating." The team of geologists theorize that the folding happened in "mere milliseconds." Their drilling into the structure turned up one large piece of granite that had been lifted nearly 1200 feet vertically through rock and sediment by the force of the impact." Ercerpted from: Elton From llbullbull at hotmail.com Sun Aug 20 06:13:15 2006 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Sun Aug 20 06:13:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] questions regarding specimen Message-ID: Hello: I have come into possession of an unlabeled pyrite pseudmorph after an octohaedral mineral. I showed the specimen around last weekend at the East Coast Gem and Mineral Show in Springfield, MA . There were a couple of suggestions as to what the mineral had been i.e. fluorite or galena. However there were objections to each as well. The matrix is primarily made up of massive galena. There is nothing left of the original mineral in any of the open pseudo crystals. Is anyone familiar with this material? Any ideas where it might be from? Thanks for any suggestions about the mineral and its source. Larry Bull _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From rgangue at yahoo.com Sun Aug 20 07:18:33 2006 From: rgangue at yahoo.com (Stan Perry) Date: Sun Aug 20 07:18:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] questions regarding specimen In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060820141833.42887.qmail@web54203.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Larry, If it is more of a cast with with pyrite over an octahedral crystal these are fairly common from the Viburnum Trend. The original mineral would then have been galena .. a matrix of galena would make sense since because it is the primary ore mineral in the district. If it is more of a replacement I have not seen very many of these. Did you show it to Dan Weinrich? He should have easily been able to tell if it was from the Trend. I have not seen anything of that description from the Hardin County fluorite mines. Cheers, Stan --- Lawrence Bull wrote: > Hello: > > I have come into possession of an unlabeled pyrite > pseudmorph after an > octohaedral mineral. > > I showed the specimen around last weekend at the > East Coast Gem and Mineral > Show in Springfield, MA . > > There were a couple of suggestions as to what the > mineral had been i.e. > fluorite or galena. However there were objections > to each as well. > > The matrix is primarily made up of massive galena. > > There is nothing left of the original mineral in any > of the open pseudo > crystals. > > Is anyone familiar with this material? > > Any ideas where it might be from? > > Thanks for any suggestions about the mineral and its > source. > > Larry Bull > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get > it now! > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > Stan Perry Our Gangue Minerals www.emineralshow.com Ebay seller ID rgangue e-mail at rgangue@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sun Aug 20 01:11:23 2006 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sun Aug 20 12:31:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: [meteorite-list] Re: "Round Rocks" from Osceola, Missouri Impact Site In-Reply-To: <20060820074229.7609.qmail@web51012.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, all, To me, they look like common river cobble. If they are limestone, they would be relatively soft enough to have the corners easily chipped off until ultimately shaped into the orbs. Judging by the included aerial photo at the ebay site, there's lots of rivers to wash them down hill, too. The tributary system appears similar to that found in a mountainous/foothill terrain, so lack of an energetic momentum wouldn't be an issue. Occam's razor. Coincidence that they are found at the impact area, and their round shape is unrelated. ...Just the humble, skeptical opinion of an amateur with a geology interest, and likely wrong. I don't deny, however, that they are cool looking rocks, especially in a package like what's for sale! Cheers, Pete From: Mr EMan To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com, metlist Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: "Round Rocks" from Osceola,Missouri Impact Site Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 00:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Interesting follow up note as I Google about trying to visualize the dynamics and avoid broaching the "T word"--tektite. The article below speaks of them being shale kernals which upon falling back into the melangue over time became "chert concretions". I also noted that one of the affected formations is the Keokuk limestone of geode fame. "Missouri rock balls. One of the largest meteorite craters in the United States is in the state of Missouri where a rock 1,200 feet in diameter plunged into Earth's atmosphere sometime around 310 to 340 million years ago. It crashed into territory where we find the modern towns of Weaubleau and Osceola. The impact crater encircles the modern community of Vista, making it one of only two U.S. communities, along with Middlesboro, Kentucky, totally encircled by a meteorite crater or crater remnants, according to geologist George H. Davis, a member of the team that used shallow core drilling to investigate the Weaubleau-Osceola meteorite impact in July 2003. Osceola and Weaubleau are not within the impact crater. Geologists say such a quarter-mile-wide meteorite could explain how some rocks they found on the ground had come to be folded over and other rocks containing shattered quartz had ended up in the Ozark Mountains. Residents of the area around Osceola have found a lot of strange, perfectly-round rocks. Geologists theorize the round stone balls are chert concretions. They suggest the impact blasted up gravel-sized pieces of shale that fell back to the ground. Silica-rich solutions seeped in around the small shale pieces and hardened in place. Those chert concretions are evidence that the impact actually occurred, according to Davis. The folded rocks are visible in a local quarry and Davis describes them as "fascinating." The team of geologists theorize that the folding happened in "mere milliseconds." Their drilling into the structure turned up one large piece of granite that had been lifted nearly 1200 feet vertically through rock and sediment by the force of the impact." Ercerpted from: Elton ______________________________________________ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes. http://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Aug 20 14:07:50 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Aug 20 14:07:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] questions regarding specimen References: Message-ID: <001c01c6c49c$b233a870$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> You are sure it isn't octahedral pyrite on galena? Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Bull" To: Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 9:13 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] questions regarding specimen > Hello: > > I have come into possession of an unlabeled pyrite pseudmorph after an > octohaedral mineral. > > I showed the specimen around last weekend at the East Coast Gem and > Mineral Show in Springfield, MA . > > There were a couple of suggestions as to what the mineral had been i.e. > fluorite or galena. However there were objections to each as well. > > The matrix is primarily made up of massive galena. > > There is nothing left of the original mineral in any of the open pseudo > crystals. > > Is anyone familiar with this material? > > Any ideas where it might be from? > > Thanks for any suggestions about the mineral and its source. > > Larry Bull > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Aug 20 16:36:01 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Aug 20 16:29:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] questions regarding specimen References: Message-ID: <44E8F05A.425A@Tomaszewski.net> It might just be octahedral pyrite like this specimen from Peru http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/npl/mineralogy/Blowups/Pyrite_Peru.htm Lawrence Bull wrote: > > Hello: > > I have come into possession of an unlabeled pyrite pseudmorph after an > octohaedral mineral. > > I showed the specimen around last weekend at the East Coast Gem and Mineral > Show in Springfield, MA . > > There were a couple of suggestions as to what the mineral had been i.e. > fluorite or galena. However there were objections to each as well. > > The matrix is primarily made up of massive galena. > > There is nothing left of the original mineral in any of the open pseudo > crystals. > > Is anyone familiar with this material? > > Any ideas where it might be from? > > Thanks for any suggestions about the mineral and its source. > > Larry Bull From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Mon Aug 21 04:11:08 2006 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Mon Aug 21 04:10:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] questions regarding specimen References: Message-ID: <44E994CC.D7274F5B@gmx.de> Hello, why do you think it is pyrite pseudomorph after unknown? Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Lawrence Bull schrieb: > Hello: > > I have come into possession of an unlabeled pyrite pseudmorph after an > octohaedral mineral. > > I showed the specimen around last weekend at the East Coast Gem and Mineral > Show in Springfield, MA . > > There were a couple of suggestions as to what the mineral had been i.e. > fluorite or galena. However there were objections to each as well. > > The matrix is primarily made up of massive galena. > > There is nothing left of the original mineral in any of the open pseudo > crystals. > > Is anyone familiar with this material? > > Any ideas where it might be from? > > Thanks for any suggestions about the mineral and its source. > > Larry Bull > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From llbullbull at hotmail.com Mon Aug 21 04:47:40 2006 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Mon Aug 21 04:47:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] questions regarding specimen In-Reply-To: <44E994CC.D7274F5B@gmx.de> Message-ID: Hello: In response to all the replies: A better description from me would have helped. The specimen would be better described as a pyrite cast. Some of the pyrite casts are not complete in that there there are holes in same. >From all appearances what the pyrite is cast after is gone. One crystal has some micro quartz and probably limonite visible with loop inside the cast. Dan W. did look at it and did not recognize the specific material as from his area. However, it could be. There was also a suggestion of the Selina (sp?) Mine in Mexico or some place out west. In other words no one had specifically seen this type looking material before. What I need to figure out is how to get a picture up on the net. As I only got my first digital camera a few weeks ago I am not that far along toward those skills. There is not enough time at the present. Thank you all for your feedback. Larry Bull >From: Juergen Wachsmuth >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] questions regarding specimen >Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:11:08 +0200 > >Hello, > >why do you think it is pyrite pseudomorph after unknown? > >Regards, >Jürgen Wachsmuth > >Lawrence Bull schrieb: > > > Hello: > > > > I have come into possession of an unlabeled pyrite pseudmorph after an > > octohaedral mineral. > > > > I showed the specimen around last weekend at the East Coast Gem and >Mineral > > Show in Springfield, MA . > > > > There were a couple of suggestions as to what the mineral had been i.e. > > fluorite or galena. However there were objections to each as well. > > > > The matrix is primarily made up of massive galena. > > > > There is nothing left of the original mineral in any of the open pseudo > > crystals. > > > > Is anyone familiar with this material? > > > > Any ideas where it might be from? > > > > Thanks for any suggestions about the mineral and its source. > > > > Larry Bull > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Aug 21 08:13:53 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Aug 21 08:13:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> Bryan, That is a Brazilian crystal (and was verified by a quick email). Drew On 8/19/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Heh, don't need to go to Switzerland we have better right here in the US: > > http://www.wegnercrystalmines.com/22/is1.html > > scroll down. > > BK > > On 8/19/06, The Hammer < hammerron@yahoo.com > wrote: > > > > My sister told me that our local television news program showed a 550 > > pound quartz crystal that was discovered in Switzerland. Wow. Could > anyone > > direct me to pictures of this or something similar? > > > > -Ron > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Aug 21 08:20:13 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Aug 21 08:20:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: LOL, did they ship it to Arkansas by UPS? BK On 8/21/06, Drew wrote: > > Bryan, > > That is a Brazilian crystal (and was verified by a quick email). > > Drew > > > On 8/19/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > Heh, don't need to go to Switzerland we have better right here in the > US: > > > > http://www.wegnercrystalmines.com/22/is1.html > > > > scroll down. > > > > BK > > > > On 8/19/06, The Hammer < hammerron@yahoo.com > wrote: > > > > > > My sister told me that our local television news program showed a 550 > > > pound quartz crystal that was discovered in Switzerland. Wow. Could > > anyone > > > direct me to pictures of this or something similar? > > > > > > -Ron > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Mon Aug 21 08:32:03 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Aug 21 08:32:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 11:13:53 -0400, Drew wrote: >Bryan, > >That is a Brazilian crystal (and was verified by a quick email). > You mean the Wegner's crystal? Be that as it may, there are huge crystals out of Arkansas. I haven't been there for a while, but the Coleman retail store (near the main road, not the building on the mountain) had some laying outside the store. Sorry, I don't remember which Coleman (Jim or Ron). Anyway, these were bigger than those pictured on the Wegner's site. >Drew > > >On 8/19/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> >> Heh, don't need to go to Switzerland we have better right here in the US: >> >> http://www.wegnercrystalmines.com/22/is1.html >> >> scroll down. >> >> BK >> >> On 8/19/06, The Hammer < hammerron@yahoo.com > wrote: >> > >> > My sister told me that our local television news program showed a 550 >> > pound quartz crystal that was discovered in Switzerland. Wow. Could >> anyone >> > direct me to pictures of this or something similar? >> > >> > -Ron >> > >> > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > multipart/alternative >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > text/html >> > --- >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Aug 21 08:43:32 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Aug 21 08:43:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608210843s54a6442mdb8c5773307484fe@mail.gmail.com> On 8/21/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > LOL, did they ship it to Arkansas by UPS? > > BK That'd be one heck of a bill! I suppose that would take a great deal of work to get the crystal out of the ground, crated and shipped. Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Aug 21 08:49:31 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Aug 21 08:49:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44E9D60B.9010503@tenforward.com> Hi Guys, Hey Bryan, Thanks for the neat link, I only wish there were more photos showing folks the monsters available here in the US! Hi Ron, I think this is what your referencing... http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp?direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http://www.kristalle.ch/welcome.asp http://www.vonarx-bergkristalle.ch/kluft.htm All the very best, John Drew wrote: > Bryan, > > That is a Brazilian crystal (and was verified by a quick email). > > Drew > > > On 8/19/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >> >> Heh, don't need to go to Switzerland we have better right here in the >> US: >> >> http://www.wegnercrystalmines.com/22/is1.html >> >> scroll down. >> >> BK >> >> On 8/19/06, The Hammer < hammerron@yahoo.com > wrote: >> > >> > My sister told me that our local television news program showed a 550 >> > pound quartz crystal that was discovered in Switzerland. Wow. Could >> anyone >> > direct me to pictures of this or something similar? >> > >> > -Ron >> > >> > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > multipart/alternative >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > text/html >> > --- >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Aug 21 08:53:33 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Aug 21 08:53:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608210853x1d40f593jc4b00cf24e9ddd5d@mail.gmail.com> On 8/21/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > You mean the Wegner's crystal? Yep, I just saw all of the crating materials in the background, and just assumed it was Brazilian, so I dropped them an email and they confirmed it. Be that as it may, there are huge crystals out of Arkansas. I haven't been > there for a while, but the Coleman retail store (near the main road, not the > building on the mountain) had some laying outside the store. Sorry, I don't > remember which Coleman (Jim or Ron). Anyway, these were bigger than those > pictured on the Wegner's site. I tried searching on big quartz in US, but came up relatively empty-handed. I would assume the OP was talking about 1 crystal (doubly terminated), instead of a cluster. I have heard of 150 lb single crystals coming from SW VA, so I wouldn't be surprised to find that there are some 10 times that size in Arkansas. You would think there would be SOME pics out there, but I am having a hard time finding any. Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Aug 21 08:56:24 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Aug 21 08:56:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits Message-ID: <44E9D7A8.609@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, I have a thought which I'd like to share and only hope I do it in a way that does not offend anyone. I'm curious, is it just me? Does anyone else out there find it a major bummer when people pass on opinions as fact? No links, no proof, just opinions. I find this such a distasteful habit and I see so many passing on information in this fashion (and more often then not incorrectly). Please, everyone, if you really want to be helpful, back up your information with facts! Provide links, references, contacts, etc. opinions are just that, opinions and when offered, they should be noted as such. Comments... All the very best, John From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Aug 21 08:59:32 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Aug 21 08:59:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <44E9D60B.9010503@tenforward.com> References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> <44E9D60B.9010503@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608210859ob6e0254ja0c22c459e781eae@mail.gmail.com> John, Thanks for the links! I have been searching all over the place for these and couldn't find it! Drew On 8/21/06, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > Hey Bryan, Thanks for the neat link, I only wish there were more photos > showing folks the monsters available here in the US! > > Hi Ron, I think this is what your referencing... > > > http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp?direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http://www.kristalle.ch/welcome.asp > > http://www.vonarx-bergkristalle.ch/kluft.htm > > All the very best, > > John > > Drew wrote: > > > Bryan, > > > > That is a Brazilian crystal (and was verified by a quick email). > > > > Drew > > > > > > On 8/19/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > >> > >> Heh, don't need to go to Switzerland we have better right here in the > >> US: > >> > >> http://www.wegnercrystalmines.com/22/is1.html > >> > >> scroll down. > >> > >> BK > >> > >> On 8/19/06, The Hammer < hammerron@yahoo.com > wrote: > >> > > >> > My sister told me that our local television news program showed a 550 > >> > pound quartz crystal that was discovered in Switzerland. Wow. Could > >> anyone > >> > direct me to pictures of this or something similar? > >> > > >> > -Ron > >> > > >> > > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> > multipart/alternative > >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> > text/html > >> > --- > >> > -- > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> > Subscription Services: > >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > List Home Page: > >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > > >> > >> > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >> --- > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Mon Aug 21 09:06:19 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:06:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: <44E9D7A8.609@tenforward.com> References: <44E9D7A8.609@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <4emje2t5epimvc2bkg8c2pkfn50064iro2@4ax.com> On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:56:24 -0700, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: >Hi Everyone, > >I have a thought which I'd like to share and only hope I do it in a way >that does not offend anyone. I'm curious, is it just me? Does anyone >else out there find it a major bummer when people pass on opinions as >fact? No links, no proof, just opinions. I find this such a distasteful >habit and I see so many passing on information in this fashion (and more >often then not incorrectly). Please, everyone, if you really want to be >helpful, back up your information with facts! Provide links, references, >contacts, etc. opinions are just that, opinions and when offered, they >should be noted as such. > >Comments... > I agree wholeheartedly, and if I'm ever guilty, please tell me! -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Aug 21 09:14:28 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:14:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <44E9D60B.9010503@tenforward.com> References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> <44E9D60B.9010503@tenforward.com> Message-ID: LOL they must be using an Internet translation service. BK > > > http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp?direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http://www.kristalle.ch/welcome.asp > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Aug 21 09:30:56 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:31:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608210853x1d40f593jc4b00cf24e9ddd5d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040608210853x1d40f593jc4b00cf24e9ddd5d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44E9DFC0.5070606@tenforward.com> Hi Drew, This is a neat locality in CA that has produced some real MONSTER singles and clusters... http://www.thisoldrock.com/ All the very best, John Drew wrote: > On 8/21/06, Al Balmer wrote: > >> >> You mean the Wegner's crystal? > > > > Yep, I just saw all of the crating materials in the background, and just > assumed it was Brazilian, so I dropped them an email and they > confirmed it. > > Be that as it may, there are huge crystals out of Arkansas. I haven't > been > >> there for a while, but the Coleman retail store (near the main road, >> not the >> building on the mountain) had some laying outside the store. Sorry, I >> don't >> remember which Coleman (Jim or Ron). Anyway, these were bigger than >> those >> pictured on the Wegner's site. > > > > I tried searching on big quartz in US, but came up relatively > empty-handed. > I would assume the OP was talking about 1 crystal (doubly terminated), > instead of a cluster. I have heard of 150 lb single crystals coming > from SW > VA, so I wouldn't be surprised to find that there are some 10 times that > size in Arkansas. You would think there would be SOME pics out there, > but I > am having a hard time finding any. > > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Aug 21 09:37:59 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:38:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608210859ob6e0254ja0c22c459e781eae@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> <44E9D60B.9010503@tenforward.com> <7aac8040608210859ob6e0254ja0c22c459e781eae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44E9E167.7060605@tenforward.com> Your welcome Drew, I'm glad I could help. It's SO GREAT when there are links we can follow. Its an amazing and big world out there and as you mention, sometimes its tough finding the info. we're seeking. Have a great day and all the very best, John Drew wrote: > John, > > Thanks for the links! I have been searching all over the place for these > and couldn't find it! > > Drew > > > On 8/21/06, John and Gloria Cornish wrote: > >> >> Hi Guys, >> >> Hey Bryan, Thanks for the neat link, I only wish there were more photos >> showing folks the monsters available here in the US! >> >> Hi Ron, I think this is what your referencing... >> >> >> http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp?direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http://www.kristalle.ch/welcome.asp >> >> >> http://www.vonarx-bergkristalle.ch/kluft.htm >> >> All the very best, >> >> John >> >> Drew wrote: >> >> > Bryan, >> > >> > That is a Brazilian crystal (and was verified by a quick email). >> > >> > Drew >> > >> > >> > On 8/19/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Heh, don't need to go to Switzerland we have better right here in the >> >> US: >> >> >> >> http://www.wegnercrystalmines.com/22/is1.html >> >> >> >> scroll down. >> >> >> >> BK >> >> >> >> On 8/19/06, The Hammer < hammerron@yahoo.com > wrote: >> >> > >> >> > My sister told me that our local television news program showed >> a 550 >> >> > pound quartz crystal that was discovered in Switzerland. Wow. >> Could >> >> anyone >> >> > direct me to pictures of this or something similar? >> >> > >> >> > -Ron >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> >> > multipart/alternative >> >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> >> > text/html >> >> > --- >> >> > -- >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> >> > Subscription Services: >> >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > List Home Page: >> >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> >> multipart/alternative >> >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> >> text/html >> >> --- >> >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> >> Subscription Services: >> >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> List Home Page: >> >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> > >> > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > multipart/alternative >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > text/html >> > --- >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Aug 21 09:42:33 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:42:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> <44E9D60B.9010503@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <44E9E279.1010506@tenforward.com> Hi Bryan, Yup, it's a challenging read on occasion, but I'm so thankful that at least it gets us most of the way there. For another read on monster quartz (and I apologize, I've passed on this link before) see... http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp?direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http://www.kristalle.ch/strahlen/SlidesMFlepp1.asp I'm a field collector first and foremost, these are the types of sites I most enjoy! All the very best everyone, John J Bryan Kramer wrote: > LOL they must be using an Internet translation service. > > BK > > >> >> >> http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp?direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http://www.kristalle.ch/welcome.asp >> >> >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Aug 21 09:51:13 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Aug 21 09:50:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: <44E9D7A8.609@tenforward.com> Message-ID: I agree completely. Problem seems to be that although it is common knowledge that "paper is patient", people do not seem to understand that sending a message over the internet is the same as writing a letter. People that are on the receiving end of an offensive e-mail will be inclined to print out the message rather than delete it. E-mail is much less volatile than we care to believe. Consequently absolute beginners can offer expert advise in the perfect anonymity of the Net without realizing the damage that they do... "I just said"... "I only meant..." Also, absolute beginners tend to see authority in level-2-beginners. They have the habit of flaunting any newly acquired tidbit of knowledge... Luckily, the educated seeker of knowledge is smart enough to look for confirmation! Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens John and Gloria > Cornish > Verzonden: maandag 21 augustus 2006 16:56 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits > > > Hi Everyone, > > I have a thought which I'd like to share and only hope I do it in a way > that does not offend anyone. I'm curious, is it just me? Does anyone > else out there find it a major bummer when people pass on opinions as > fact? No links, no proof, just opinions. I find this such a distasteful > habit and I see so many passing on information in this fashion (and more > often then not incorrectly). Please, everyone, if you really want to be > helpful, back up your information with facts! Provide links, references, > contacts, etc. opinions are just that, opinions and when offered, they > should be noted as such. > > Comments... > > All the very best, > > John > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From stu at arcrystalmine.com Mon Aug 21 10:03:56 2006 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (stu@arcrystalmine.com) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:04:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits References: <44E9D7A8.609@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <003f01c6c543$ca976d00$6400a8c0@STUART> In this day and age it seems to be getting more difficult to distinguish between fact, opinion and fiction. One definition of the word fact in my dictionary is: "something said to be true or supposed to have happened" One definition of the word opinion is: "the expression of a formal or professional judgment" Judges issue opinions based upon the facts (or maybe opinions) they hear. This is just my opinion, or maybe a fact, or could it be fiction? The heat here in Arkansas must be getting to me to have even responded. Sorry. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Clear Creek Crystal Mines www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:56 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits > Hi Everyone, > I have a thought which I'd like to share and only hope I do it in a way > that does not offend anyone. I'm curious, is it just me? Does anyone else > out there find it a major bummer when people pass on opinions as fact? No > links, no proof, just opinions. I find this such a distasteful habit and I > see so many passing on information in this fashion (and more often then > not incorrectly). Please, everyone, if you really want to be helpful, back > up your information with facts! Provide links, references, contacts, etc. > opinions are just that, opinions and when offered, they should be noted as > such. > > Comments... > > All the very best, > > John From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Aug 21 10:25:29 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Aug 21 10:25:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608211025n40e29257xb4a5c0f3685d5dd0@mail.gmail.com> On 8/21/06, Drew wrote: > > Bryan, > > That is a Brazilian crystal (and was verified by a quick email). > To clarify, this was verified by contacting Wegner's directly. Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Mon Aug 21 12:07:38 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:05:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040608211025n40e29257xb4a5c0f3685d5dd0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000501c6c555$11e12e60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Here is one from the good ole US of A. The Sierra foothills of California. http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/huge crystal.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland > On 8/21/06, Drew wrote: > > > > Bryan, > > > > That is a Brazilian crystal (and was verified by a quick email). > > > > To clarify, this was verified by contacting Wegner's directly. > > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 8/2/06 > > From jaybates at rcn.com Mon Aug 21 12:13:14 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:10:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com><7aac8040608211025n40e29257xb4a5c0f3685d5dd0@mail.gmail.com> <000501c6c555$11e12e60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000501c6c555$daa9f020$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Try this link: http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/hugecrystal.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland > Here is one from the good ole US of A. The Sierra foothills of California. > > http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/huge crystal.jpg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Drew" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:25 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland > > > > On 8/21/06, Drew wrote: > > > > > > Bryan, > > > > > > That is a Brazilian crystal (and was verified by a quick email). > > > > > > > To clarify, this was verified by contacting Wegner's directly. > > > > Drew > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 8/2/06 > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 8/2/06 > > From BNMJEFF at aol.com Mon Aug 21 12:18:19 2006 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:18:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland Message-ID: <57c.3c1aa5c.321b60fb@aol.com> The Graves Museum in Dania beach FL has a 3.5 ton quartz crystal. The museum has been closed for the last year or so and I am not sure what happened to it's collection, or where the crystal came from. Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Aug 21 12:21:36 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:21:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <000501c6c555$daa9f020$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040608211025n40e29257xb4a5c0f3685d5dd0@mail.gmail.com> <000501c6c555$11e12e60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <000501c6c555$daa9f020$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608211221x37a1d4dx291a90e98f4230f@mail.gmail.com> Yeah, I'd like to have something like that in my display case! I have heard rumors about some biggun's here in SW VA, but haven't substantiated them yet (haven't seen any pictures, just read about them). Besides one of the localities is on the Blue Ridge Parkway, which is off-limits to any and all collecting. Drew On 8/21/06, jaybates wrote: > > Try this link: http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/hugecrystal.jpg > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:07 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland > > > > Here is one from the good ole US of A. The Sierra foothills of > California. > > > > http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/huge crystal.jpg > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Drew" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:25 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland > > > > > > > On 8/21/06, Drew wrote: > > > > > > > > Bryan, > > > > > > > > That is a Brazilian crystal (and was verified by a quick email). > > > > > > > > > > To clarify, this was verified by contacting Wegner's directly. > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 8/2/06 > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 8/2/06 > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Mon Aug 21 12:39:23 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:37:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com><7aac8040608211025n40e29257xb4a5c0f3685d5dd0@mail.gmail.com><000501c6c555$11e12e60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><000501c6c555$daa9f020$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <7aac8040608211221x37a1d4dx291a90e98f4230f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000501c6c559$81e57e60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> That one came from a lot on which a house has been built and will forever remain closed to any exploration for any more crystals. Several very large crystal plates also came out of the same hole. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland > Yeah, I'd like to have something like that in my display case! I have heard > rumors about some biggun's here in SW VA, but haven't substantiated them yet > (haven't seen any pictures, just read about them). Besides one of the > localities is on the Blue Ridge Parkway, which is off-limits to any and all > collecting. > > Drew > > > On 8/21/06, jaybates wrote: > > > > Try this link: http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/hugecrystal.jpg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "jaybates" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:07 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland > > > > > > > Here is one from the good ole US of A. The Sierra foothills of > > California. > > > > > > http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/huge crystal.jpg > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Drew" > > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > > > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:25 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland > > > > > > > > > > On 8/21/06, Drew wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Bryan, > > > > > > > > > > That is a Brazilian crystal (and was verified by a quick email). > > > > > > > > > > > > > To clarify, this was verified by contacting Wegner's directly. > > > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > > multipart/alternative > > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > > text/html > > > > --- > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 8/2/06 > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 8/2/06 > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 8/2/06 > > From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Aug 21 12:56:07 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Aug 21 12:56:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <000501c6c559$81e57e60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040608211025n40e29257xb4a5c0f3685d5dd0@mail.gmail.com> <000501c6c555$11e12e60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <000501c6c555$daa9f020$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <7aac8040608211221x37a1d4dx291a90e98f4230f@mail.gmail.com> <000501c6c559$81e57e60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608211256u7c11d056pbc1b563d6d71475d@mail.gmail.com> On 8/21/06, jaybates wrote: > That one came from a lot on which a house has been built and will forever > remain closed to any exploration for any more crystals. Several very large > crystal plates also came out of the same hole. Jay, I am currently working a spot like that. My buddy found this spot when he was digging a posthole. He jammed the posthole diggers into the hole and something "tinked". He took the tool out and found that he had dug straight down on a 6" doubly terminated crystal. What luck!! Ever since then we have been searching this area, and have had success in all forms. Now they have started cutting and grading a road for an extension of the subdivision. I have been taking every opportunity to go out there and collect, since when they lay down the asphalt, that's all she wrote! We have been finding decent crystals, I saw a beautful 2" citrine come out yesterday, which is one of the only citrine crystals I have seen there (some have a rusty film on them, this one did not). I also saw a big, broken hunk of smoky quartz come out too. In the next 3 or 4 days, the asphalt will be laid and for the time being, our run on these crystals will end (they will be building houses next!). Now if I could get my buddies "magic" posthole diggers after those big ones I've heard about (not on Parkway land of course!). Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Mon Aug 21 14:00:41 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Mon Aug 21 13:58:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com><7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com><7aac8040608211025n40e29257xb4a5c0f3685d5dd0@mail.gmail.com><000501c6c555$11e12e60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><000501c6c555$daa9f020$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><7aac8040608211221x37a1d4dx291a90e98f4230f@mail.gmail.com><000501c6c559$81e57e60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <7aac8040608211256u7c11d056pbc1b563d6d71475d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000a01c6c564$dd801cc0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Yeah, it is true many of these sites are being lost forever, but many of them were on private land and not known or accessible to us anyway. We need to be diligent and opportunistic and look for anything before it gets buried under asphalt and dandelions. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland > On 8/21/06, jaybates wrote: > > > That one came from a lot on which a house has been built and will forever > > remain closed to any exploration for any more crystals. Several very large > > crystal plates also came out of the same hole. > > > Jay, > > I am currently working a spot like that. My buddy found this spot when he > was digging a posthole. He jammed the posthole diggers into the hole and > something "tinked". He took the tool out and found that he had dug straight > down on a 6" doubly terminated crystal. What luck!! Ever since then we > have been searching this area, and have had success in all forms. Now they > have started cutting and grading a road for an extension of the > subdivision. I have been taking every opportunity to go out there and > collect, since when they lay down the asphalt, that's all she wrote! We > have been finding decent crystals, I saw a beautful 2" citrine come out > yesterday, which is one of the only citrine crystals I have seen there (some > have a rusty film on them, this one did not). I also saw a big, broken hunk > of smoky quartz come out too. In the next 3 or 4 days, the asphalt will be > laid and for the time being, our run on these crystals will end (they will > be building houses next!). > > Now if I could get my buddies "magic" posthole diggers after those big ones > I've heard about (not on Parkway land of course!). > > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/406 - Release Date: 8/2/06 > > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Aug 21 16:54:44 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Aug 21 17:19:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits References: <44E9D7A8.609@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <001201c6c57d$2d3a7ef0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Yes -- discourse over the internet removes voice inflection and a result when people are teasing, it may not be apparent to everyone. I'm sure everyone on this list serve is aware of the annual "Mars is going to be the closest in 50,000 years" message. Somebody lopped off the date and as a result becomes timeless. It'll be still roaming the net (or its equivalent) in gosh-knows-how-many years when Mars is close again. Then it will be accurate again. That is certainly worse than the watch that is broken but is still correct twice each day. In my "Young Paleontologist Camp" I had a kid who believed the internet was as accurate as an encyclopedia. The other kids teased him mercilessly, calling out "internet!" whenever he or anyone else said something unbelievable. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 11:56 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits > Hi Everyone, > I have a thought which I'd like to share and only hope I do it in a way > that does not offend anyone. I'm curious, is it just me? Does anyone else > out there find it a major bummer when people pass on opinions as fact? No > links, no proof, just opinions. I find this such a distasteful habit and I > see so many passing on information in this fashion (and more often then > not incorrectly). Please, everyone, if you really want to be helpful, back > up your information with facts! Provide links, references, contacts, etc. > opinions are just that, opinions and when offered, they should be noted as > such. > > Comments... > > All the very best, > > John > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Aug 21 20:50:01 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Aug 21 20:46:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geologists and Astronomers Argue Over the Meaning of Pluton Message-ID: <44EA7E26.67AD@Tomaszewski.net> See http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060821/full/060821-4.html Kreigh From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Aug 22 04:46:42 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Aug 22 04:45:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: <003f01c6c543$ca976d00$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: Hi Stuart > In this day and age it seems to be getting more difficult to distinguish > between fact, opinion and fiction. I don't think this is true... >One definition of the word fact in my > dictionary is: "something said to be true or supposed to have > happened" ...unless you phrase it like that. Come on, this looks like a twisted logic in the defense of people that sell unfounded guesswork as fact. "Something said to be true" is hearsay... "something supposed to have happened" is suppositious and certainly not fact! I think you're dictionary is flawed. Could you perhaps provide us with some references or links to which dictionary you used? Maybe copy the entry (like I did, it's in the next paragraph)? This is how the Concise Oxford Dictionary (10th edition) defines the word "fact": ? n. a thing that is indisputably the case. ? (facts) information used as evidence or as part of a report. ? chiefly Law the truth about events as opposed to interpretation. >One > definition of the word opinion is: "the expression of a formal or > professional judgment" Judges issue opinions based upon the > facts (or maybe > opinions) they hear. If scientists were to build their research on "opinions based upon the facts (or maybe opinions) they hear", men wouldn't have walked on the moon and you would be heating your house with dried dung. >This is just my opinion, or maybe a fact, > or could it > be fiction? The heat here in Arkansas must be getting to me to have even > responded. Sorry. Even people who have the facts sometimes make mistakes but I 'd still prefer to get my facts from knowledgeable people than from the next motormouth who has read half a book. Oh well, the debate is ongoing..... Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 05:32:17 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Aug 22 05:32:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: References: <003f01c6c543$ca976d00$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <7aac8040608220532wf02157bs72e8731163fe5835@mail.gmail.com> On 8/22/06, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > If scientists were to build their research on "opinions based upon the > facts > (or maybe opinions) they hear", men wouldn't have walked on the moon and > you > would be heating your house with dried dung. Ah, but Axel, is the moon walking a fact? There are many people in the world who believe it was just a very good acting job done up in Hollywood. How do you substantiate that "fact"? I mean with all the recent hoopla about the missing tapes, who knows! You can check out Google News page here, http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=moonwalk. I wasn't sure which media outlet would be most trustworthy. I do not have an opinion on the moonwalk, I just thought I would bring it up since we were talking about fact and fiction. Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Aug 22 07:45:13 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Aug 22 07:45:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200608221445.k7MEjB3K015242@bubbleator.drizzle.com> > This is how the Concise Oxford Dictionary (10th edition) defines the word > "fact": > ... > ? (facts) information used as evidence or as part of a report. > ... Hi Axel, That definition isn't very good either. If I put information into a report, it shouldn't be considered fact unless it can be confirmed. Just because it is in a report doesn't mean that it is fact. Or am I reading it wrong? This sounds better to me (: ? (facts) information used as evidence that has been confirmed as true (e.g. in a report). Oooops, we are way off topic here. Regards, Bob From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 10:53:41 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Aug 22 10:53:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits References: <200608221445.k7MEjB3K015242@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001001c6c613$e80e3000$d9fdf604@TheBlackAdder> I like "verifiable evidence". If it can't be independently verified, it doesn't pass the smell test. The phrase, "studies show" always makes me suspicious. As Reagan said of the Soviets, "trust but verify". A good baloney filter is indispensible. But, hey, that's just my unverifiable assertion. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 7:45 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits > This is how the Concise Oxford Dictionary (10th edition) defines the word > "fact": > ... > ? (facts) information used as evidence or as part of a report. > ... Hi Axel, That definition isn't very good either. If I put information into a report, it shouldn't be considered fact unless it can be confirmed. Just because it is in a report doesn't mean that it is fact. Or am I reading it wrong? This sounds better to me (: ? (facts) information used as evidence that has been confirmed as true (e.g. in a report). Oooops, we are way off topic here. Regards, Bob -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Aug 22 11:03:56 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:02:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608220532wf02157bs72e8731163fe5835@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew, > Ah, but Axel, is the moon walking a fact? There are many people in the > world who believe it was just a very good acting job done up in Hollywood. Actually, the rumor has it that under Pres. Nixon it was deemed necessary to have backup footage just in case that Apollo mission should perish. According to legend, Stanley Kubrick had just finished shooting "2001 A Space Odyssey" in a studio near London, GB, when he was allegedly approached by the NSA (No Such Agency?) to film an "alternate moon landing"... So, no: not Hollywood but London... If we want to get the facts of the fiction right. ;-))) > How do you substantiate that "fact"? Scientifically? The composition of the material brought back by several Apollo missions is such that the proportion the isotopes of Rare Earth Elements and oxygen provide irrefutably evidence of their origin. Lunar! Here are some references if you care to check them out (I'm playing along here ;-))): -Helmke, P. A. and Haskin L. A. (1972) Rare earths and other trace elements in Apollo 15 samples. In The Apollo 15 Lunar Samples, J. W. Chamberlain and C. Watkins, eds. The Lunar Science Institute, Houston. pp. 217-220. -Haskin L. A., Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Korotev R. L., Herrmann A. G., and Reid A. M. (1974) Rare earth and other trace elements in some individual 1-2mm fines from Apollo 16 and 17. Lunar Science V, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 310-312. -Haskin L. A., Shih, C.-Y., Bansal B. M., Rhodes J. M., Wiesmann H., and Nyquist L. E. (1974) Chemical evidence for the origin of 76535 as a cumulate. Lunar Science V, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 313-315. -Blanchard D. P., Korotev R. L., Brannon J. C., Jacobs J. W., Haskin L. A., Reid A. M., Donaldson C. H., and Brown R. W. (1975) A geochemical and petrographic study of 1-2mm fines from Apollo 17. Lunar Science VI, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 57-59. -James O. B., Marti K., Braddy D., Hutcheon I. D., Brecher A., Silver L. T., Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Brannon J. C., Korotev R. L., and Haskin L. A. (1975) Consortium studies of matrix of light gray breccia 73215. Lunar Science VI, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 435-437. -Shih C.-Y., Wiesmann H. W., and Haskin L. A. (1975) On the origin of high-Ti mare basalts. Lunar Science VI, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 735-737. -James O. B., Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Brannon J. C., Haskin L. A., Brecher A., Compston W., Marti K., Lugmair G. W., Gros J., Takahashi H., and Braddy D. (1976) Consortium studies of aphanatic lithologies and two anorthositic gabbro clasts in breccia 73215. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 423-425. -Schreiber H.D. and Haskin L. A. (1976) Cr(III)-Cr(II) distribution coefficients in synthetic silicate systems in relation to the partition of chromium on the Moon. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 776-778. -Shih C.-Y., Schonfled E., and Haskin L. A. (1976) A chemical model for mare basalt genesis. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 803-805. -Blanchard D. P., Brannon J. C., Jacobs J. W. and Haskin L. A. (1977) Major and trace element abundances in anorthositic gabbro clasta and a clast of K-rich felsite from consortium breccia 73215. Lunar Science VIII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 124-126. -Haskin L. A. and Jacobs J. W. (1977) Dispersions among REE in lunar and terrestrial basalts. Lunar Science VIII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 412-414. -Haskin L. A. and Korotev R. L. (1988) Limits from Eu mass balance on the proportions of KREEP and ferroan anorthosite in the lunar surface crust. Lunar and Planetary Science XIX, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 461-462. -Colson R. O., Jolliff B. L., and Haskin L. A. (1992) Inferring REE substitution reactions in lunar whitlockite. Lunar and Planetary Science XXIII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 235-6. > How do you substantiate that "fact"? I mean with all the recent hoopla > about the missing tapes, who knows! You can check out Google News page > here, http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=moonwalk. I > wasn't sure which media outlet would be most trustworthy. > > I do not have an opinion on the moonwalk, I just thought I would > bring it up > since we were talking about fact and fiction. > > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 11:15:22 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:15:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits Message-ID: <7aac8040608221115v5cdb9b03j6527570c640f74aa@mail.gmail.com> Axel, Actually, the rumor has it that under Pres. Nixon it was deemed necessary to > have backup footage just in case that Apollo mission should perish. > According to legend, Stanley Kubrick had just finished shooting "2001 A > Space Odyssey" in a studio near London, GB, when he was allegedly > approached > by the NSA (No Such Agency?) to film an "alternate moon landing"... > So, no: not Hollywood but London... If we want to get the facts of the > fiction right. ;-))) Right on, you got me pinned down with this one! Scientifically? The composition of the material brought back by several > Apollo missions is such that the proportion the isotopes of Rare Earth > Elements and oxygen provide irrefutably evidence of their origin. Lunar! > > Here are some references if you care to check them out (I'm playing along > here ;-))): > > -Helmke, P. A. and Haskin L. A. (1972) Rare earths and other trace > elements > in Apollo 15 samples. In The Apollo 15 Lunar Samples, J. W. Chamberlain > and > C. Watkins, eds. The Lunar Science Institute, Houston. pp. 217-220. > -Haskin L. A., Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Korotev R. L., Herrmann A. > G., > and Reid A. M. (1974) Rare earth and other trace elements in some > individual > 1-2mm fines from Apollo 16 and 17. Lunar Science V, Lunar and Planetary > Institute, Houston. pp. 310-312. > -Haskin L. A., Shih, C.-Y., Bansal B. M., Rhodes J. M., Wiesmann H., and > Nyquist L. E. (1974) Chemical evidence for the origin of 76535 as a > cumulate. Lunar Science V, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. > 313-315. > -Blanchard D. P., Korotev R. L., Brannon J. C., Jacobs J. W., Haskin L. > A., > Reid A. M., Donaldson C. H., and Brown R. W. (1975) A geochemical and > petrographic study of 1-2mm fines from Apollo 17. Lunar Science VI, Lunar > and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 57-59. > -James O. B., Marti K., Braddy D., Hutcheon I. D., Brecher A., Silver L. > T., > Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Brannon J. C., Korotev R. L., and Haskin L. > A. (1975) Consortium studies of matrix of light gray breccia 73215. Lunar > Science VI, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 435-437. > -Shih C.-Y., Wiesmann H. W., and Haskin L. A. (1975) On the origin of > high-Ti mare basalts. Lunar Science VI, Lunar and Planetary Institute, > Houston. pp. 735-737. > -James O. B., Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Brannon J. C., Haskin L. A., > Brecher A., Compston W., Marti K., Lugmair G. W., Gros J., Takahashi H., > and > Braddy D. (1976) Consortium studies of aphanatic lithologies and two > anorthositic gabbro clasts in breccia 73215. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and > Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 423-425. > -Schreiber H.D. and Haskin L. A. (1976) Cr(III)-Cr(II) distribution > coefficients in synthetic silicate systems in relation to the partition of > chromium on the Moon. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, > Houston. pp. 776-778. > -Shih C.-Y., Schonfled E., and Haskin L. A. (1976) A chemical model for > mare > basalt genesis. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. > pp. 803-805. > -Blanchard D. P., Brannon J. C., Jacobs J. W. and Haskin L. A. (1977) > Major > and trace element abundances in anorthositic gabbro clasta and a clast of > K-rich felsite from consortium breccia 73215. Lunar Science VIII, Lunar > and > Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 124-126. > -Haskin L. A. and Jacobs J. W. (1977) Dispersions among REE in lunar and > terrestrial basalts. Lunar Science VIII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, > Houston. pp. 412-414. > -Haskin L. A. and Korotev R. L. (1988) Limits from Eu mass balance on the > proportions of KREEP and ferroan anorthosite in the lunar surface crust. > Lunar and Planetary Science XIX, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. > pp. > 461-462. > -Colson R. O., Jolliff B. L., and Haskin L. A. (1992) Inferring REE > substitution reactions in lunar whitlockite. Lunar and Planetary Science > XXIII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 235-6. Nice sourcing Axel. You have set me in my place. I wasn't even thinking about what they brought back, instead I was thinking about the video. Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Tue Aug 22 11:28:24 2006 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:28:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44EB4CC8.2060701@azgs.az.gov> Sorry, Axel, but my gut tells me that there is no way anyone could have walked on the moon. I don't listen to my brain, I go with my gut, my feelings, not my brain. My feelings tell me that if "somebody" had wanted us to walk on the moon then "somebody" would have put us there rather than here, the earth.... besides, everybody knows the moon is made of cheese, and everybody knows that the rare earths and isotopes of cheese are not a reliable indicator of origin. So even if they did bring back some really old, really hard lunar cheese, there's no way you could "really" determine where it's "really" from... ignore what your brain tells you, go with your gut. It's soooo much easier than actually thinking about some of this stuff.... thinking just makes your head hurt. Axel Emmermann wrote: Hi Drew, Ah, but Axel, is the moon walking a fact? There are many people in the How do you substantiate that "fact"? How do you substantiate that "fact"? I mean with all the recent hoopla http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=moonwalk. I http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Aug 22 11:46:08 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:44:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: <200608221445.k7MEjB3K015242@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Hi Bob, no, we are very much on topic imho. When you're part of a discussion that is scientific in nature, you are responsible for the statements that you make. If you put wrong facts or flawed reasoning in your reports at work you risk being replaced by someone that acts more responsible. Within a discussion group we don't have the luxury of replacing ill-informed people. ;-)))) We 'll just have to rely on the members sense of discretion... Axel > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Aug 22 11:55:04 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:53:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: <44EB4CC8.2060701@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: > besides, everybody knows the moon is made of cheese, and everybody > knows that the rare earths and isotopes of cheese are not a reliable > indicator of origin. I just checked my Cambridge Encyclopedia of Astronomy and you are absolutely left... pardon, right. The Cheddaronium/Stiltonium ratio of soft lunar cheese seems to indicate that the dark spots on the moon are made of blue cheese. But let's not get carried away.... Better? ;-)))) Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Aug 22 11:59:47 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Aug 22 11:58:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608221115v5cdb9b03j6527570c640f74aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Don't worry, I know a guy who has a PhD in physics. He believes that it is impossible to get above 100 Km high since the temperature of the ionosphere is higher than 100.000 degrees Kelvin. Go figure... If a physicist can be tricked into believing that, we laymen don't stand a chance! ;-))) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Drew > Verzonden: dinsdag 22 augustus 2006 19:15 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits > > > Axel, > > Actually, the rumor has it that under Pres. Nixon it was deemed > necessary to > > have backup footage just in case that Apollo mission should perish. > > According to legend, Stanley Kubrick had just finished shooting "2001 A > > Space Odyssey" in a studio near London, GB, when he was allegedly > > approached > > by the NSA (No Such Agency?) to film an "alternate moon landing"... > > So, no: not Hollywood but London... If we want to get the facts of the > > fiction right. ;-))) > > > Right on, you got me pinned down with this one! > > Scientifically? The composition of the material brought back by several > > Apollo missions is such that the proportion the isotopes of Rare Earth > > Elements and oxygen provide irrefutably evidence of their origin. Lunar! > > > > Here are some references if you care to check them out (I'm > playing along > > here ;-))): > > > > -Helmke, P. A. and Haskin L. A. (1972) Rare earths and other trace > > elements > > in Apollo 15 samples. In The Apollo 15 Lunar Samples, J. W. Chamberlain > > and > > C. Watkins, eds. The Lunar Science Institute, Houston. pp. 217-220. > > -Haskin L. A., Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Korotev R. L., Herrmann A. > > G., > > and Reid A. M. (1974) Rare earth and other trace elements in some > > individual > > 1-2mm fines from Apollo 16 and 17. Lunar Science V, Lunar and Planetary > > Institute, Houston. pp. 310-312. > > -Haskin L. A., Shih, C.-Y., Bansal B. M., Rhodes J. M., Wiesmann H., and > > Nyquist L. E. (1974) Chemical evidence for the origin of 76535 as a > > cumulate. Lunar Science V, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. > > 313-315. > > -Blanchard D. P., Korotev R. L., Brannon J. C., Jacobs J. W., Haskin L. > > A., > > Reid A. M., Donaldson C. H., and Brown R. W. (1975) A geochemical and > > petrographic study of 1-2mm fines from Apollo 17. Lunar Science > VI, Lunar > > and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 57-59. > > -James O. B., Marti K., Braddy D., Hutcheon I. D., Brecher A., Silver L. > > T., > > Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Brannon J. C., Korotev R. L., > and Haskin L. > > A. (1975) Consortium studies of matrix of light gray breccia > 73215. Lunar > > Science VI, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 435-437. > > -Shih C.-Y., Wiesmann H. W., and Haskin L. A. (1975) On the origin of > > high-Ti mare basalts. Lunar Science VI, Lunar and Planetary Institute, > > Houston. pp. 735-737. > > -James O. B., Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Brannon J. C., > Haskin L. A., > > Brecher A., Compston W., Marti K., Lugmair G. W., Gros J., Takahashi H., > > and > > Braddy D. (1976) Consortium studies of aphanatic lithologies and two > > anorthositic gabbro clasts in breccia 73215. Lunar Science VII, > Lunar and > > Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 423-425. > > -Schreiber H.D. and Haskin L. A. (1976) Cr(III)-Cr(II) distribution > > coefficients in synthetic silicate systems in relation to the > partition of > > chromium on the Moon. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, > > Houston. pp. 776-778. > > -Shih C.-Y., Schonfled E., and Haskin L. A. (1976) A chemical model for > > mare > > basalt genesis. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and Planetary > Institute, Houston. > > pp. 803-805. > > -Blanchard D. P., Brannon J. C., Jacobs J. W. and Haskin L. A. (1977) > > Major > > and trace element abundances in anorthositic gabbro clasta and > a clast of > > K-rich felsite from consortium breccia 73215. Lunar Science VIII, Lunar > > and > > Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 124-126. > > -Haskin L. A. and Jacobs J. W. (1977) Dispersions among REE in lunar and > > terrestrial basalts. Lunar Science VIII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, > > Houston. pp. 412-414. > > -Haskin L. A. and Korotev R. L. (1988) Limits from Eu mass > balance on the > > proportions of KREEP and ferroan anorthosite in the lunar surface crust. > > Lunar and Planetary Science XIX, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. > > pp. > > 461-462. > > -Colson R. O., Jolliff B. L., and Haskin L. A. (1992) Inferring REE > > substitution reactions in lunar whitlockite. Lunar and Planetary Science > > XXIII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 235-6. > > > Nice sourcing Axel. You have set me in my place. I wasn't even thinking > about what they brought back, instead I was thinking about the video. > > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From albalmer at att.net Tue Aug 22 12:20:58 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Aug 22 12:21:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: References: <7aac8040608221115v5cdb9b03j6527570c640f74aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:59:47 +0200, "Axel Emmermann" wrote: >Don't worry, > >I know a guy who has a PhD in physics. >He believes that it is impossible to get above 100 Km high since the >temperature of the ionosphere is higher than 100.000 degrees Kelvin. >Go figure... If a physicist can be tricked into believing that, we laymen >don't stand a chance! ;-))) > You're worried about the wrong thing. The worrisome thing is that someone like this can get a PhD in Physics. Most laymen have more sense. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From kugeln at msn.com Tue Aug 22 12:54:47 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (John Stockwell) Date: Tue Aug 22 12:54:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits References: <7aac8040608221115v5cdb9b03j6527570c640f74aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: That's the National Security Agency. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits > Axel, > > Actually, the rumor has it that under Pres. Nixon it was deemed necessary > to >> have backup footage just in case that Apollo mission should perish. >> According to legend, Stanley Kubrick had just finished shooting "2001 A >> Space Odyssey" in a studio near London, GB, when he was allegedly >> approached >> by the NSA (No Such Agency?) to film an "alternate moon landing"... >> So, no: not Hollywood but London... If we want to get the facts of the >> fiction right. ;-))) > > > Right on, you got me pinned down with this one! > > Scientifically? The composition of the material brought back by several >> Apollo missions is such that the proportion the isotopes of Rare Earth >> Elements and oxygen provide irrefutably evidence of their origin. Lunar! >> >> Here are some references if you care to check them out (I'm playing along >> here ;-))): >> >> -Helmke, P. A. and Haskin L. A. (1972) Rare earths and other trace >> elements >> in Apollo 15 samples. In The Apollo 15 Lunar Samples, J. W. Chamberlain >> and >> C. Watkins, eds. The Lunar Science Institute, Houston. pp. 217-220. >> -Haskin L. A., Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Korotev R. L., Herrmann A. >> G., >> and Reid A. M. (1974) Rare earth and other trace elements in some >> individual >> 1-2mm fines from Apollo 16 and 17. Lunar Science V, Lunar and Planetary >> Institute, Houston. pp. 310-312. >> -Haskin L. A., Shih, C.-Y., Bansal B. M., Rhodes J. M., Wiesmann H., and >> Nyquist L. E. (1974) Chemical evidence for the origin of 76535 as a >> cumulate. Lunar Science V, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. >> 313-315. >> -Blanchard D. P., Korotev R. L., Brannon J. C., Jacobs J. W., Haskin L. >> A., >> Reid A. M., Donaldson C. H., and Brown R. W. (1975) A geochemical and >> petrographic study of 1-2mm fines from Apollo 17. Lunar Science VI, Lunar >> and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 57-59. >> -James O. B., Marti K., Braddy D., Hutcheon I. D., Brecher A., Silver L. >> T., >> Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Brannon J. C., Korotev R. L., and Haskin >> L. >> A. (1975) Consortium studies of matrix of light gray breccia 73215. Lunar >> Science VI, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 435-437. >> -Shih C.-Y., Wiesmann H. W., and Haskin L. A. (1975) On the origin of >> high-Ti mare basalts. Lunar Science VI, Lunar and Planetary Institute, >> Houston. pp. 735-737. >> -James O. B., Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Brannon J. C., Haskin L. A., >> Brecher A., Compston W., Marti K., Lugmair G. W., Gros J., Takahashi H., >> and >> Braddy D. (1976) Consortium studies of aphanatic lithologies and two >> anorthositic gabbro clasts in breccia 73215. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and >> Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 423-425. >> -Schreiber H.D. and Haskin L. A. (1976) Cr(III)-Cr(II) distribution >> coefficients in synthetic silicate systems in relation to the partition >> of >> chromium on the Moon. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, >> Houston. pp. 776-778. >> -Shih C.-Y., Schonfled E., and Haskin L. A. (1976) A chemical model for >> mare >> basalt genesis. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, >> Houston. >> pp. 803-805. >> -Blanchard D. P., Brannon J. C., Jacobs J. W. and Haskin L. A. (1977) >> Major >> and trace element abundances in anorthositic gabbro clasta and a clast of >> K-rich felsite from consortium breccia 73215. Lunar Science VIII, Lunar >> and >> Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 124-126. >> -Haskin L. A. and Jacobs J. W. (1977) Dispersions among REE in lunar and >> terrestrial basalts. Lunar Science VIII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, >> Houston. pp. 412-414. >> -Haskin L. A. and Korotev R. L. (1988) Limits from Eu mass balance on the >> proportions of KREEP and ferroan anorthosite in the lunar surface crust. >> Lunar and Planetary Science XIX, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. >> pp. >> 461-462. >> -Colson R. O., Jolliff B. L., and Haskin L. A. (1992) Inferring REE >> substitution reactions in lunar whitlockite. Lunar and Planetary Science >> XXIII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 235-6. > > > Nice sourcing Axel. You have set me in my place. I wasn't even thinking > about what they brought back, instead I was thinking about the video. > > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Aug 22 14:00:53 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Aug 22 14:00:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: References: <7aac8040608221115v5cdb9b03j6527570c640f74aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I did see something interesting about Lunar minerals, the current European lunar orbiter is using X-Ray fluorescence to identify minerals on the lunar surface. To check their calibration they compared their results with the material returned from the Apollo flights and also I think from one Soviet robot probe that returned some material. The orbiter collected data over the Apollo and Soviet landing sites and compared their results with the known sample composition. They had excellent correlation. The X-Rays are solar x-rays BTW. I think there is a Martian orbiter doing the same sort of analysis. Oh yeah, have to include a link or I'll be a liar: http://www.sstd.rl.ac.uk/SMART-1/index.htm BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 15:40:54 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Aug 22 15:40:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits References: <7aac8040608221115v5cdb9b03j6527570c640f74aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001401c6c63c$080328c0$2ffaf604@TheBlackAdder> Yes, NSA is the National Security Agency, but my BS filter kicked in when the rumor said NSA asked Kubrick to film an alternate moon landing. That's not the sort of mission NSA does. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Stockwell" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits That's the National Security Agency. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits > Axel, > > Actually, the rumor has it that under Pres. Nixon it was deemed necessary > to >> have backup footage just in case that Apollo mission should perish. >> According to legend, Stanley Kubrick had just finished shooting "2001 A >> Space Odyssey" in a studio near London, GB, when he was allegedly >> approached >> by the NSA (No Such Agency?) to film an "alternate moon landing"... >> So, no: not Hollywood but London... If we want to get the facts of the >> fiction right. ;-))) > > > Right on, you got me pinned down with this one! > > Scientifically? The composition of the material brought back by several >> Apollo missions is such that the proportion the isotopes of Rare Earth >> Elements and oxygen provide irrefutably evidence of their origin. Lunar! >> >> Here are some references if you care to check them out (I'm playing along >> here ;-))): >> >> -Helmke, P. A. and Haskin L. A. (1972) Rare earths and other trace >> elements >> in Apollo 15 samples. In The Apollo 15 Lunar Samples, J. W. Chamberlain >> and >> C. Watkins, eds. The Lunar Science Institute, Houston. pp. 217-220. >> -Haskin L. A., Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Korotev R. L., Herrmann A. >> G., >> and Reid A. M. (1974) Rare earth and other trace elements in some >> individual >> 1-2mm fines from Apollo 16 and 17. Lunar Science V, Lunar and Planetary >> Institute, Houston. pp. 310-312. >> -Haskin L. A., Shih, C.-Y., Bansal B. M., Rhodes J. M., Wiesmann H., and >> Nyquist L. E. (1974) Chemical evidence for the origin of 76535 as a >> cumulate. Lunar Science V, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. >> 313-315. >> -Blanchard D. P., Korotev R. L., Brannon J. C., Jacobs J. W., Haskin L. >> A., >> Reid A. M., Donaldson C. H., and Brown R. W. (1975) A geochemical and >> petrographic study of 1-2mm fines from Apollo 17. Lunar Science VI, Lunar >> and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 57-59. >> -James O. B., Marti K., Braddy D., Hutcheon I. D., Brecher A., Silver L. >> T., >> Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Brannon J. C., Korotev R. L., and Haskin >> L. >> A. (1975) Consortium studies of matrix of light gray breccia 73215. Lunar >> Science VI, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 435-437. >> -Shih C.-Y., Wiesmann H. W., and Haskin L. A. (1975) On the origin of >> high-Ti mare basalts. Lunar Science VI, Lunar and Planetary Institute, >> Houston. pp. 735-737. >> -James O. B., Blanchard D. P., Jacobs J. W., Brannon J. C., Haskin L. A., >> Brecher A., Compston W., Marti K., Lugmair G. W., Gros J., Takahashi H., >> and >> Braddy D. (1976) Consortium studies of aphanatic lithologies and two >> anorthositic gabbro clasts in breccia 73215. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and >> Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 423-425. >> -Schreiber H.D. and Haskin L. A. (1976) Cr(III)-Cr(II) distribution >> coefficients in synthetic silicate systems in relation to the partition >> of >> chromium on the Moon. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, >> Houston. pp. 776-778. >> -Shih C.-Y., Schonfled E., and Haskin L. A. (1976) A chemical model for >> mare >> basalt genesis. Lunar Science VII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, >> Houston. >> pp. 803-805. >> -Blanchard D. P., Brannon J. C., Jacobs J. W. and Haskin L. A. (1977) >> Major >> and trace element abundances in anorthositic gabbro clasta and a clast of >> K-rich felsite from consortium breccia 73215. Lunar Science VIII, Lunar >> and >> Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 124-126. >> -Haskin L. A. and Jacobs J. W. (1977) Dispersions among REE in lunar and >> terrestrial basalts. Lunar Science VIII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, >> Houston. pp. 412-414. >> -Haskin L. A. and Korotev R. L. (1988) Limits from Eu mass balance on the >> proportions of KREEP and ferroan anorthosite in the lunar surface crust. >> Lunar and Planetary Science XIX, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. >> pp. >> 461-462. >> -Colson R. O., Jolliff B. L., and Haskin L. A. (1992) Inferring REE >> substitution reactions in lunar whitlockite. Lunar and Planetary Science >> XXIII, Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. pp. 235-6. > > > Nice sourcing Axel. You have set me in my place. I wasn't even thinking > about what they brought back, instead I was thinking about the video. > > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Paintricks at aol.com Tue Aug 22 16:11:48 2006 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 22 16:11:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite cleaning? Anyone..? Message-ID: <527.64e1b23.321ce934@aol.com> I have a nice Pyrite cube that I have been noticing getting duller. Is there a good home remedy cleaning method that is able to bring out the original luster? Kid safe? My baby son loves to play with the rocks. Thanks, Kevin Paintricks Airbrushing --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Aug 22 16:25:04 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Aug 22 16:24:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite cleaning? Anyone..? References: <527.64e1b23.321ce934@aol.com> Message-ID: <000301c6c642$333cc680$60fff604@TheBlackAdder> Wright's silver cream available in the cleaning supplies section of supermarkets. Use it like you're cleaning tarnish off of silver. Rinse with running water, and dry thoroughly. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:11 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite cleaning? Anyone..? I have a nice Pyrite cube that I have been noticing getting duller. Is there a good home remedy cleaning method that is able to bring out the original luster? Kid safe? My baby son loves to play with the rocks. Thanks, Kevin Paintricks Airbrushing --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Aug 22 17:51:42 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Aug 22 17:51:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano blows smoke rings Message-ID: <002301c6c64e$4cc78250$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> This is really hot! (Okay, maybe cool!) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/696953.stm Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Aug 23 07:30:10 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Aug 23 07:30:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad- Sale ends soon References: <44DD017C.2090503@verizon.net> <44DF2A7A.5080502@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <001001c6c6c0$a3fc9de0$0c9e254b@LarryRush> Thanks to all those who supported me in my recent sale. The members of this group are outstanding in every respect....... (except maybe for the off-topic subjects discussed recently!!) One of the problems that exists with on-line selling is that you can't meet and see everyone on a personal basis. It is a huge drawback, as I'm sure that other sellers here will attest.. face-to-face transactions are really the most pleasant, rewarding, and educational ....but; that being said.... My sale will end on Sept. 1; 10% off everything, and free shipping in the U.S. Larry www.ConnRoxMinerals.com From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Aug 23 11:13:02 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Aug 23 11:13:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock for carving from Death Valley? Message-ID: Hello, A few years ago I saw an eagle or hawk carved from a brown rock that had been collected in Death Valley before it was closed for collecting. The piece I saw looked like a red-brown jasper but cut and carved like soap stone. I believe I have three small pieces of that and would like to know the name of it. I had one big piece that I thought was jasper and was going to slab it. After making two cuts I realized the rough was a soft as pipe stone or soap stone. Any ideas are appreciated. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA From edben at prodigy.net Wed Aug 23 11:49:24 2006 From: edben at prodigy.net (edben) Date: Wed Aug 23 11:49:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) References: <200608160102.k7G12QO1002283@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <44E31001.4000102@iglide.net> Message-ID: <004701c6c6e4$db3ba480$1d374b0c@benjamin> Hello Kelly. After a three month summer break, this 83 year old Club Bulletin editor is getting ready to put together the September Bulletin for the first of a new season of rockhound meetings. Your charming story will be right at home -- and we have lots of grandfathers who will especially enjoy it. May I have your official permission to include it (with only minor editing)? I'll want to mail you a copy of the finished bulletin, so be sure to e-mail me your Postal address. Ed Benjamin, Editor of Arrowhead News, the bulletin of Indian Mounds Rock & Mineral Club of Wyoming, Michigan (the Grand Rapids area) ----- Original Message ----- From: "JL Kelly" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:30 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) > Gotta share, my granddaughters were over a couple of weeks ago, the 4th of > July. The eldest was wandering through the rock house and around the yard > showing her little sisters all of "grandpa's rocks." > Kelly in SLC > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Aug 23 11:58:46 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Aug 23 11:57:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > That's the National Security Agency. I have a friend who works for the US government. No kidding: his security clearance says "secret". I asked him whether there is such a thing like the NSA since there really seem to be "No Such Agency". His reply was (smiling broadly but not really responding the question): I would tell you, but then I would have to kill you ;-)))) Cheers Axel From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Aug 23 12:09:47 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Aug 23 12:07:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock for carving from Death Valley? References: Message-ID: <000901c6c6e7$b421d920$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Grant, sounds like a calcite onyz. I have some I made a sphere out of from the Argus Mountains. There is a mine their that was still open a couple years ago. If it is the same material, it fades in sunlight, so keep it out of the sun. There is also some other onyx that used to be available from Death Valley that is no longer available. I believe it was also a calcite onyx. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:13 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock for carving from Death Valley? > Hello, > > A few years ago I saw an eagle or hawk carved from a brown rock that > had been collected in Death Valley before it was closed for > collecting. The piece I saw looked like a red-brown jasper but cut and > carved like soap stone. > > I believe I have three small pieces of that and would like to know the > name of it. I had one big piece that I thought was jasper and was > going to slab it. After making two cuts I realized the rough was a > soft as pipe stone or soap stone. > > Any ideas are appreciated. > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/425 - Release Date: 8/22/06 > > From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Aug 23 12:25:46 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Aug 23 12:23:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock for carving from Death Valley? References: <000901c6c6e7$b421d920$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000501c6c6e9$ef9c10e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Grant, here is a link to a site with many spheres of California onyx: http://www.spherestoyou.com/Sshoppe/Onyx.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rock for carving from Death Valley? > Grant, sounds like a calcite onyz. I have some I made a sphere out of from > the Argus Mountains. There is a mine their that was still open a couple > years ago. If it is the same material, it fades in sunlight, so keep it out > of the sun. There is also some other onyx that used to be available from > Death Valley that is no longer available. I believe it was also a calcite > onyx. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Grant Johnston" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:13 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock for carving from Death Valley? > > > > Hello, > > > > A few years ago I saw an eagle or hawk carved from a brown rock that > > had been collected in Death Valley before it was closed for > > collecting. The piece I saw looked like a red-brown jasper but cut and > > carved like soap stone. > > > > I believe I have three small pieces of that and would like to know the > > name of it. I had one big piece that I thought was jasper and was > > going to slab it. After making two cuts I realized the rough was a > > soft as pipe stone or soap stone. > > > > Any ideas are appreciated. > > > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/425 - Release Date: 8/22/06 > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/425 - Release Date: 8/22/06 > > From kugeln at msn.com Wed Aug 23 12:27:04 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (John Stockwell) Date: Wed Aug 23 12:27:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits References: Message-ID: It's at Fort Meade, MD, or was, housing the Army Security Agency, etc. Much less "cloak & dagger" than the CIA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:58 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits >> That's the National Security Agency. > > I have a friend who works for the US government. > No kidding: his security clearance says "secret". > I asked him whether there is such a thing like the NSA since there really > seem to be "No Such Agency". > His reply was (smiling broadly but not really responding the question): I > would tell you, but then I would have to kill you ;-)))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From edben at prodigy.net Wed Aug 23 12:31:52 2006 From: edben at prodigy.net (edben) Date: Wed Aug 23 12:32:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) References: <200608160102.k7G12QO1002283@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <44E31001.4000102@iglide.net> Message-ID: <005f01c6c6ea$ca367010$1d374b0c@benjamin> Hello Kelly I'm the 83 year old editor of Arrowhead News, the bulletin of Indian Mounds Rock & Mineral Club of Wyoming, Mich. (the Grand Rapids area). I'd like to use your charming story in our September issue (coming soon). May I have your official permission? With your permission, please e-mail me your Postal Address so I can mail you a copy of the bulletin. We've got lots of grandpas in the club, all of who will appreciate this story! ----- Original Message ----- From: "JL Kelly" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:30 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) > Gotta share, my granddaughters were over a couple of weeks ago, the 4th of > July. The eldest was wandering through the rock house and around the yard > showing her little sisters all of "grandpa's rocks." > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Aug 23 13:41:28 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Aug 23 13:41:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano blows smoke rings Message-ID: Wow! Way Cool! And O-O-OH so HOT! Glenn From: deepskyspy@insightbb.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano blows smoke rings This is really hot! (Okay, maybe cool!) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/696953.stm Alan _________________________________________________________________ Search from any Web page with powerful protection. Get the FREE Windows Live Toolbar Today! http://get.live.com/toolbar/overview --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Aug 23 13:47:13 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Aug 23 13:47:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moon ( Was Distasteful Habits) Message-ID: Speaking of the moon, ya'll might like to see this: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060822_science_tuesday.html See? Even though I'm an almost absolute novice, I can include a pretty good link. IMHO. Glenn Ah, but Axel, is the moon walking a fact? There are many people in theworld who believe it was just a very good acting job done up in Hollywood. _________________________________________________________________ Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather&FORM=WLMTAG --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Aug 23 15:11:53 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Aug 23 15:10:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pyrite cleaning? Anyone..? In-Reply-To: <527.64e1b23.321ce934@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Kevin, I've seen good results from using cleaning product for bathroom and kitchen tiles. Very glossy! Don't know any US brand names but it usually comes in clear fluid form in spray flasks. Look for any form of phosphoric acid on the composition label (it's very diluted so don't worry) Also good for quartz and other minerals. Don't soak calcite and other carbonates too long in that stuff and don't use it on micro-mounts. Small XX are usually easier attacked than large XX. Rinse thoroughly. Also try it out on a small and worthless specimen. The chemicals used in these products in the USA may differ from those in Europe. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Paintricks@aol.com > Verzonden: woensdag 23 augustus 2006 0:12 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Pyrite cleaning? Anyone..? > > > I have a nice Pyrite cube that I have been noticing getting duller. Is > there a good home remedy cleaning method that is able to bring > out the original > luster? Kid safe? My baby son loves to play with the rocks. > Thanks, > Kevin > Paintricks Airbrushing > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Aug 23 15:43:27 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Aug 23 15:43:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: NSA is well known and it's existance is no secret, there was a popular book written about the agency: The Puzzle Palace: Inside America's Most Secret Intelligence Organization The point being made was that the NSA is concerned with cryptography and signals intelligence and is not an agency which would be concerned with production of films, bogus or otherwise. Just as an aside, Secret clearance is basically the lowest effective security clearance, I had one myself. Everyone involved in security matters (US Citizen) is automatically granted a Confidential clearance, but for Secret they actually do a background investigation. Top Secret is above that and higher yet are compartmental clearances. There are some people on the list with higher classifications. BK On 8/23/06, John Stockwell wrote: > > It's at Fort Meade, MD, or was, housing the Army Security Agency, etc. > Much > less "cloak & dagger" than the CIA. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:58 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits > > > >> That's the National Security Agency. > > > > I have a friend who works for the US government. > > No kidding: his security clearance says "secret". > > I asked him whether there is such a thing like the NSA since there > really > > seem to be "No Such Agency". > > His reply was (smiling broadly but not really responding the question): > I > > would tell you, but then I would have to kill you ;-)))) > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Wed Aug 23 15:57:49 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Aug 23 15:57:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060823155213.0366eb78@orerockon.com> During which said investigation you may get some strange phone calls. I had to get a TS (aka DOE Red badge) to get on the Hanford Nuclear Reservation and a couple of college roommates tracked me down out of curiosity; they had been "visited". I had to tell them that I was going there to poke dead, rotting salmon carcasses with a machete; I was sorry to ruin their fantasies of having a "friend on the inside" :) And yes, they all lied for the cause :D At 03:43 PM 8/23/2006, you wrote: >NSA is well known and it's existance is no secret, there was a popular book >written about the agency: > > > >The Puzzle Palace: Inside America's Most Secret Intelligence >Organization > >The point being made was that the NSA is concerned with cryptography and >signals intelligence and is not an agency which would be concerned with >production of films, bogus or otherwise. > >Just as an aside, Secret clearance is basically the lowest effective >security clearance, I had one myself. Everyone involved in security matters >(US Citizen) is automatically granted a Confidential clearance, but for >Secret they actually do a background investigation. Top Secret is above that >and higher yet are compartmental clearances. > >There are some people on the list with higher classifications. > > >BK Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From albalmer at att.net Wed Aug 23 17:38:37 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Aug 23 17:38:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 18:43:27 -0400, "J Bryan Kramer" wrote: >NSA is well known and it's existance is no secret, there was a popular book >written about the agency: > > > >The Puzzle Palace: Inside America's Most Secret Intelligence >Organization > >The point being made was that the NSA is concerned with cryptography and >signals intelligence and is not an agency which would be concerned with >production of films, bogus or otherwise. > >Just as an aside, Secret clearance is basically the lowest effective >security clearance, I had one myself. Everyone involved in security matters >(US Citizen) is automatically granted a Confidential clearance, but for >Secret they actually do a background investigation. Top Secret is above that >and higher yet are compartmental clearances. Way back, when I was the Eighth Army Signal Inspector, I had "Crypto Q". I never inspected crypto equipment, but needed the clearance just to be in the same tent with the equipment. > >There are some people on the list with higher classifications. > > >BK > > > >On 8/23/06, John Stockwell wrote: >> >> It's at Fort Meade, MD, or was, housing the Army Security Agency, etc. >> Much >> less "cloak & dagger" than the CIA. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Axel Emmermann" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:58 AM >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] OT: Distasteful Habits >> >> >> >> That's the National Security Agency. >> > >> > I have a friend who works for the US government. >> > No kidding: his security clearance says "secret". >> > I asked him whether there is such a thing like the NSA since there >> really >> > seem to be "No Such Agency". >> > His reply was (smiling broadly but not really responding the question): >> I >> > would tell you, but then I would have to kill you ;-)))) >> > >> > Cheers >> > >> > Axel >> > >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From info at agatesfromargentina.com Thu Aug 24 06:44:46 2006 From: info at agatesfromargentina.com (AGATES from ARGENTINA) Date: Thu Aug 24 06:44:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] on line selling Message-ID: <000801c6c783$77709d30$30a859c8@xp3gigapro> We agree with Larry about on-line selling. It is not the same when a potential customer visits your booth and he is able to see (in our case Agates) directly than if he sees them through a scanned picture. Scanned pictures , often show only deffects and the whole "picture" of the quality of a specimen is lost. Last year we felt the experience at M?nich Fair of meeting agate collectors face to face , answer their queries , and look at their faces and expressions. Besides this , there is an additional disatvantage when selling online : colors are not always the same as the real specimen seen in person. Ricardo & Claudia Birnie Argentina --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mike at colellaphoto.com Thu Aug 24 06:52:09 2006 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Thu Aug 24 06:52:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting in Charlotte, NC area In-Reply-To: <000801c6c783$77709d30$30a859c8@xp3gigapro> Message-ID: <200608240951304.SM01508@18P4> Will be visiting Matthews, which is near Charlotte, NC next weekend and would like to do some collecting on Saturday, if I can get any recommendations for the area, say within an hours drive. Thanks all, Mike C -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/426 - Release Date: 8/23/2006 From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Thu Aug 24 08:03:34 2006 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Thu Aug 24 08:03:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting in Charlotte, NC area In-Reply-To: <200608240951304.SM01508@18P4> References: <200608240951304.SM01508@18P4> Message-ID: <44EDBFC6.9030903@ncmail.net> Michael J. Colella wrote: > > > >Will be visiting Matthews, which is near Charlotte, NC next weekend and >would like to do some collecting on Saturday, if I can get any >recommendations for the area, say within an hours drive. >Thanks all, >Mike C > > > Try the dumps at the old Foote mine at Kings Mountain, west of Charlotte. The quarry is flooded but the dumps are still there. Kenny NCGS From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 10:01:10 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Aug 24 10:01:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mastadon/Mammoth Tusk Found in Saltville, VA Message-ID: <7aac8040608241001h63283902n3e4e469541d25939@mail.gmail.com> A Mastadon/Mammoth (officials aren't sure because no teeth were found with it) tusk was recently found in Saltville, VA, here's an article from Richmond Times-Dispatch http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149190019400&path=!news&s=1045855934842 Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hammerron at yahoo.com Thu Aug 24 16:37:06 2006 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Thu Aug 24 16:43:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 550 pound quartz crystal in Switzerland In-Reply-To: <44E9D60B.9010503@tenforward.com> References: <20060819165550.37417.qmail@web81415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7aac8040608210813h14210c89y163b3964312eaf4b@mail.gmail.com> <44E9D60B.9010503@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20060824193546.02dd2eb0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> John, Sorry for the late reply. Yes, I think that is indeed it. Thank you so much! On8/21/2006, John and Gloria Cornish uttered the following: >Hi Guys, > >Hey Bryan, Thanks for the neat link, I only wish there were more >photos showing folks the monsters available here in the US! > >Hi Ron, I think this is what your referencing... > >http://reversonet.lycos.de/result.asp?direction=65540&template=General&autotranslate=true&url=http://www.kristalle.ch/welcome.asp > >http://www.vonarx-bergkristalle.ch/kluft.htm > >All the very best, > >John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 24 18:38:35 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 24 18:36:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins rule of atomic abundance Message-ID: <44EE549B.7050104@verizon.net> Howdy, Now I feel like one of those school kids who joins a mailing list and asks a question that you just know is about a homework problem. Yes, this is about a homework problem, and I found the answer, but it really doesn't explain things for me. The rule states that elements with even atomic numbers are more abundant than ones with odd atomic numbers. The answer, apparently, is that "Elements with even numbers of protons and neutrons are more stable because they have greater nuclear binding energy." That's what I put down, but I don't understand why, or can't add any more suitable explanation than that. Anyone have anything to add? Deuterium Don From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Aug 24 18:41:02 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Aug 24 18:41:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200608250141.k7P1f3r6003342@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi Axel, I agree that everyone should be responsible about what they say in a discussion forum such as this mailing list, and that this is somewhat on-topic for that reason, but we don't really need to discuss it. Just one message posted on the mailing list every few months should take care of it. There is no need to clutter up the list by discussing it for a week. No, it hasn't been a week yet, but it probably will. ;-) I'll stop cluttering up the list on this topic. :-) Back to rocks and stuff. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 12:46 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits Hi Bob, no, we are very much on topic imho. When you're part of a discussion that is scientific in nature, you are responsible for the statements that you make. If you put wrong facts or flawed reasoning in your reports at work you risk being replaced by someone that acts more responsible. Within a discussion group we don't have the luxury of replacing ill-informed people. ;-)))) We 'll just have to rely on the members sense of discretion... Axel > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 19:21:49 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Aug 24 19:21:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins rule of atomic abundance In-Reply-To: <44EE549B.7050104@verizon.net> References: <44EE549B.7050104@verizon.net> Message-ID: Isnj't that Harkin's rule? If I recall my nucleosynthesis lectures from long ago there isn't a good explanation. This all happens inside a supernova, all elements above Fe are created there. There is a flood of neutrons and nuclei absorb neutrons faster than they can decay. The assumption is that the decay chain is more likely to stop in an nuclei of an even element than an odd one. It must have something to do with stability when temps are in the hundreds of millions of degrees in a soup of neutrons and other particles. Tough to recreate here in a lab. One real mystery in all this is why do they find Tc in the spectra of some Red Giants. Tc, is in theory only created in supernova since it has a atomic number higher than Fe, but it has a halflife of 2 MY so how can it be found in red giants which are too cold to create it and are too old for it to be a remnant of a supernova. BK On 8/24/06, DonH wrote: > > > Howdy, > > Now I feel like one of those school kids who joins a mailing list and > asks a question that you just know is about a homework problem. > > Yes, this is about a homework problem, and I found the answer, but it > really doesn't explain things for me. > > The rule states that elements with even atomic numbers are more abundant > than ones with odd atomic numbers. The answer, apparently, is that > "Elements with even numbers of protons and neutrons are more stable > because they have greater nuclear binding energy." That's what I put > down, but I don't understand why, or can't add any more suitable > explanation than that. > > Anyone have anything to add? > > Deuterium Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Aug 24 19:25:10 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Aug 24 19:25:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins rule of atomic abundance References: <44EE549B.7050104@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44EE5F7C.512C@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Don, Imagine a typical hydrogen atom with single electron orbiting around it. It is lopsided, always out of balance, with the center of gravity moving about the central proton due to the single electron spinning around it. Single electrons are not insignificant. Now imagine a helium atom with two electrons going around it. The electrons are going to avoid each other due to charge, so the atom is usually symmetrical; the center of gravity is not moving as the electrons whirl around opposit sides of the protons and neutrons at the center. Atoms with a moving center of gravity don't feel good (upset stomach?), and are much less likely to form or survive; when anything quivers and shakes too much, it will fall apart and assume a more stable (and/or symmetrical) configuration. Even atomic numbers imply symmetric electrons, and a more stable center of gravity. I hope this helps. Kreigh DonH wrote: > > Howdy, > > Now I feel like one of those school kids who joins a mailing list and > asks a question that you just know is about a homework problem. > > Yes, this is about a homework problem, and I found the answer, but it > really doesn't explain things for me. > > The rule states that elements with even atomic numbers are more abundant > than ones with odd atomic numbers. The answer, apparently, is that > "Elements with even numbers of protons and neutrons are more stable > because they have greater nuclear binding energy." That's what I put > down, but I don't understand why, or can't add any more suitable > explanation than that. > > Anyone have anything to add? > > Deuterium Don > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From stu at arcrystalmine.com Thu Aug 24 19:25:41 2006 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (Stu Schmitt) Date: Thu Aug 24 19:25:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits References: <200608250141.k7P1f3r6003342@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <010701c6c7ed$c3582c30$6500a8c0@STU2> Pluto.... a planet based on scientific facts, a planet based on beliefs, or just a fictional planet? With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Clear Creek Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 24 19:33:24 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 24 19:31:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins rule of atomic abundance In-Reply-To: <44EE5F7C.512C@Tomaszewski.net> References: <44EE549B.7050104@verizon.net> <44EE5F7C.512C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <44EE6174.7020303@verizon.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Even atomic numbers imply symmetric electrons, and a more stable center > of gravity. Thanks guys! Aha! I asked a few older students (who already had the course, no less) if it had to do with electrons, and they said no, it was all about the formation of nuclei in the star, but they couldn't remember the exact reason. This may show up on a test--Kreigh, do you happen to have a reference for that, or do you remember it from your own studies? Best, Don From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 19:32:18 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Aug 24 19:32:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins rule of atomic abundance In-Reply-To: <44EE5F7C.512C@Tomaszewski.net> References: <44EE549B.7050104@verizon.net> <44EE5F7C.512C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Ah, I don't think orbiting electrons have been considered anything other than a quaint flash to the past since quantum mechanics came into being back in the 1930's. Kind of died with Rutherford. Chemists use electron probability clouds to visualize them but even that is a crude approximation. I gave up trying to visualize anything in my quantum physics class. Also a proton or neutron weighs about 1835 times (IIRC) more than an electron, the electron mass is negligible in the atom. BK On 8/24/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Hi Don, > > Imagine a typical hydrogen atom with single electron orbiting around it. > It is lopsided, always out of balance, with the center of gravity moving > about the central proton due to the single electron spinning around it. > Single electrons are not insignificant. > > Now imagine a helium atom with two electrons going around it. The > electrons are going to avoid each other due to charge, so the atom is > usually symmetrical; the center of gravity is not moving as the > electrons whirl around opposit sides of the protons and neutrons at the > center. > > Atoms with a moving center of gravity don't feel good (upset stomach?), > and are much less likely to form or survive; when anything quivers and > shakes too much, it will fall apart and assume a more stable (and/or > symmetrical) configuration. > > Even atomic numbers imply symmetric electrons, and a more stable center > of gravity. > > I hope this helps. > > Kreigh > > > > > > DonH wrote: > > > > Howdy, > > > > Now I feel like one of those school kids who joins a mailing list and > > asks a question that you just know is about a homework problem. > > > > Yes, this is about a homework problem, and I found the answer, but it > > really doesn't explain things for me. > > > > The rule states that elements with even atomic numbers are more abundant > > than ones with odd atomic numbers. The answer, apparently, is that > > "Elements with even numbers of protons and neutrons are more stable > > because they have greater nuclear binding energy." That's what I put > > down, but I don't understand why, or can't add any more suitable > > explanation than that. > > > > Anyone have anything to add? > > > > Deuterium Don > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 19:35:25 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Aug 24 19:35:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins rule of atomic abundance In-Reply-To: References: <44EE549B.7050104@verizon.net> <44EE5F7C.512C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Oh one other thing, we are talking about striped nuclei in the interior of a very very hot supernova. The electrons exist as an electron gas in the plasma. They are not associated with any particualr nuclei. BK On 8/24/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Ah, I don't think orbiting electrons have been considered anything other > than a quaint flash to the past since quantum mechanics came into being back > in the 1930's. Kind of died with Rutherford. > > Chemists use electron probability clouds to visualize them but even that > is a crude approximation. I gave up trying to visualize anything in my > quantum physics class. > > Also a proton or neutron weighs about 1835 times (IIRC) more than an > electron, the electron mass is negligible in the atom. > > BK > > > On 8/24/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > Hi Don, > > > > Imagine a typical hydrogen atom with single electron orbiting around it. > > It is lopsided, always out of balance, with the center of gravity moving > > about the central proton due to the single electron spinning around it. > > Single electrons are not insignificant. > > > > Now imagine a helium atom with two electrons going around it. The > > electrons are going to avoid each other due to charge, so the atom is > > usually symmetrical; the center of gravity is not moving as the > > electrons whirl around opposit sides of the protons and neutrons at the > > center. > > > > Atoms with a moving center of gravity don't feel good (upset stomach?), > > and are much less likely to form or survive; when anything quivers and > > shakes too much, it will fall apart and assume a more stable (and/or > > symmetrical) configuration. > > > > Even atomic numbers imply symmetric electrons, and a more stable center > > of gravity. > > > > I hope this helps. > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > DonH wrote: > > > > > > Howdy, > > > > > > Now I feel like one of those school kids who joins a mailing list and > > > asks a question that you just know is about a homework problem. > > > > > > Yes, this is about a homework problem, and I found the answer, but it > > > really doesn't explain things for me. > > > > > > The rule states that elements with even atomic numbers are more > > abundant > > > than ones with odd atomic numbers. The answer, apparently, is that > > > "Elements with even numbers of protons and neutrons are more stable > > > because they have greater nuclear binding energy." That's what I put > > > down, but I don't understand why, or can't add any more suitable > > > explanation than that. > > > > > > Anyone have anything to add? > > > > > > Deuterium Don > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 19:49:23 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Aug 24 19:49:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: <010701c6c7ed$c3582c30$6500a8c0@STU2> References: <200608250141.k7P1f3r6003342@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <010701c6c7ed$c3582c30$6500a8c0@STU2> Message-ID: What a farce, how does this advance science? They just should have announced that there are nine classical planets and anything past Pluto is a Trans Plutonian Object. No bogus definition needed, just say it is a cultural definition with no scientific basis. That would have saved tens of thousands of trees from the textbook re-writers. Their tortured definition is already being poked full of holes, they say a planet must have cleared the orbital space around it, but Earth has a swarm of associated asteroids and Jupiter has upwards of 50,000. Pluto crosses Neptunes orbit, so Neptune hasn't cleared it's orbit. There is already a petition being circulated among the 9800 professional astronomers who weren't at this meeting (400 attended) to trash this idiotic idea. BK On 8/24/06, Stu Schmitt wrote: > > Pluto.... a planet based on scientific facts, a planet based on beliefs, > or > just a fictional planet? > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Clear Creek Crystal Mine > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From volgems at icx.net Thu Aug 24 20:21:19 2006 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Thu Aug 24 20:21:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins rule of atomic abundance Message-ID: <17906156.1156476079473.JavaMail.root@mswamui-thinleaf.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Could you provide a source or reference for the below atom descriptions? Thanks! John -----Original Message----- >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >Sent: Aug 24, 2006 10:25 PM >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins rule of atomic abundance > >Hi Don, > >Imagine a typical hydrogen atom with single electron orbiting around it. >It is lopsided, always out of balance, with the center of gravity moving >about the central proton due to the single electron spinning around it. >Single electrons are not insignificant. > >Now imagine a helium atom with two electrons going around it. The >electrons are going to avoid each other due to charge, so the atom is >usually symmetrical; the center of gravity is not moving as the >electrons whirl around opposit sides of the protons and neutrons at the >center. > >Atoms with a moving center of gravity don't feel good (upset stomach?), >and are much less likely to form or survive; when anything quivers and >shakes too much, it will fall apart and assume a more stable (and/or >symmetrical) configuration. > >Even atomic numbers imply symmetric electrons, and a more stable center >of gravity. > >I hope this helps. > >Kreigh > > > > > >DonH wrote: >> >> Howdy, >> >> Now I feel like one of those school kids who joins a mailing list and >> asks a question that you just know is about a homework problem. >> >> Yes, this is about a homework problem, and I found the answer, but it >> really doesn't explain things for me. >> >> The rule states that elements with even atomic numbers are more abundant >> than ones with odd atomic numbers. The answer, apparently, is that >> "Elements with even numbers of protons and neutrons are more stable >> because they have greater nuclear binding energy." That's what I put >> down, but I don't understand why, or can't add any more suitable >> explanation than that. >> >> Anyone have anything to add? >> >> Deuterium Don >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From smtravis at plateautel.net Thu Aug 24 20:51:42 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Thu Aug 24 20:51:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD For colorado topaz xtls Message-ID: <01a801c6c7f9$c6db6910$541371ce@marilyn> I have several natural topaz crystals from the Tarryal area in Colorado from .5 to 4 inches long some blue some clear some slightly worn some just like they came out of the pocket they were found in. If you are interested please email me off drizzle. These are Nice crystals for a good price less than half they would have cost at the mine. Thanks Steve Travis smtravis@plateautel.net --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Aug 24 21:26:30 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Aug 24 21:26:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock for carving from Death Valley? In-Reply-To: <000501c6c6e9$ef9c10e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <000901c6c6e7$b421d920$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <000501c6c6e9$ef9c10e0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: Thanks. GJ On 8/23/06, jaybates wrote: > Grant, here is a link to a site with many spheres of California onyx: > http://www.spherestoyou.com/Sshoppe/Onyx.htm > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rock for carving from Death Valley? > > > > Grant, sounds like a calcite onyz. I have some I made a sphere out of from > > the Argus Mountains. There is a mine their that was still open a couple > > years ago. If it is the same material, it fades in sunlight, so keep it > out > > of the sun. There is also some other onyx that used to be available from > > Death Valley that is no longer available. I believe it was also a calcite > > onyx. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Grant Johnston" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:13 AM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock for carving from Death Valley? > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > A few years ago I saw an eagle or hawk carved from a brown rock that > > > had been collected in Death Valley before it was closed for > > > collecting. The piece I saw looked like a red-brown jasper but cut and > > > carved like soap stone. > > > > > > I believe I have three small pieces of that and would like to know the > > > name of it. I had one big piece that I thought was jasper and was > > > going to slab it. After making two cuts I realized the rough was a > > > soft as pipe stone or soap stone. > > > > > > Any ideas are appreciated. > > > > > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/425 - Release Date: 8/22/06 > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/425 - Release Date: 8/22/06 > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From ajs at frii.com Thu Aug 24 22:41:36 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Aug 24 22:41:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Distasteful Habits In-Reply-To: <010701c6c7ed$c3582c30$6500a8c0@STU2> Message-ID: <20060825054136.1E9BF4D499@io.frii.com> Stuart et al, > Pluto.... a planet based on scientific facts, a planet based on > beliefs, or just a fictional planet? Pluto is what it is, or isn't, and the rest is just our own attempt to put nature into convenient buckets. :-) A few years ago I read in Sky & Telescope magazine a discussion on, "what is a planet?", where the conclusion was that the best definition is: "A spherical non-fusor orbiting a fusor." A fusor is what we commonly call a star, and spherical means big enough for gravity to pull it into a round shape (which depends on its mass and what it's made of). This is pretty close to the newly proposed definition, although the latter isn't so succinct. Obviously the S&T definition, while clean, simple, and logical, opens the door for dozens of new planets in our solar system, which people find emotionally unacceptable. Plus it still begs several questions, such as: - What if the body isn't quite big enough to be nearly spherical, but is close? (never mind oblateness and other real-world second-order effects) - What about similar-sized bodies also in orbit around each other, like the Earth and Moon? Pluto and Charon? - What about spherical non-fusors floating freely in interstellar space? Regarding our own planet and satellite, few people realize that both are actually in orbit around the sun, and just happen to be dancing around each other while they do it. From the sun's point of view, neither body makes a circle or ellipse around the other, they both go around the sun wobbling in and out. (Can you picture this?) --------- This whole debate reminds me of Rucker's observation in "Mindtools" that the discrete and the continuous are in a yin/yang relationship: Both are true. The universe can be divided into categories in myriad ways, AND everything flows continuously into everything else, ultimately defying categorization. It also reminds me of two other debates I enjoyed long ago: What is the difference between life and non-life? And, when does human life begin? Both would appear to have deceptively simple answers, especially for shallow people with biases, but upon careful consideration both questions turn out to be remarkably complex and nuanced. (I like Dawkins' abstract definition: "All life evolves by the differential survival of replicating entities." As for human life, it seems obvious to me that at a bare minimum you MUST have a functioning central nervous system, otherwise you're just splitting hairs over DNA and potentialities...) So while the planetary debate can be entertaining, ultimately it's meaningless beyond the point where it helps us communicate more clearly. Personally I'd just draw an arbitrary line, which is what the new proposed definition does at 200 miles diameter (I think), and call them "big" and "little" planets, or "normal" and "small" if you like. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From gene at fossilnut.com Fri Aug 25 04:19:10 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Fri Aug 25 04:19:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins ruleof atomic abundance References: <44EE549B.7050104@verizon.net> <44EE5F7C.512C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <003b01c6c838$4c406450$6400a8c0@hppav> When we get paired electrons the 'spins' are reversed which is a lower energy state. Don, note that Harkins rule refers to the protons. I don't think it says anything about the neutrons. You included neutrons in your answer and I'm not sure that is correct, at least I have only seen sawtooth graphs representing atomic number. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins ruleof atomic abundance > Hi Don, > > Imagine a typical hydrogen atom with single electron orbiting around it. > It is lopsided, always out of balance, with the center of gravity moving > about the central proton due to the single electron spinning around it. > Single electrons are not insignificant. > > Now imagine a helium atom with two electrons going around it. The > electrons are going to avoid each other due to charge, so the atom is > usually symmetrical; the center of gravity is not moving as the > electrons whirl around opposit sides of the protons and neutrons at the > center. > > Atoms with a moving center of gravity don't feel good (upset stomach?), > and are much less likely to form or survive; when anything quivers and > shakes too much, it will fall apart and assume a more stable (and/or > symmetrical) configuration. > > Even atomic numbers imply symmetric electrons, and a more stable center > of gravity. > > I hope this helps. > > Kreigh > > > > > > DonH wrote: >> >> Howdy, >> >> Now I feel like one of those school kids who joins a mailing list and >> asks a question that you just know is about a homework problem. >> >> Yes, this is about a homework problem, and I found the answer, but it >> really doesn't explain things for me. >> >> The rule states that elements with even atomic numbers are more abundant >> than ones with odd atomic numbers. The answer, apparently, is that >> "Elements with even numbers of protons and neutrons are more stable >> because they have greater nuclear binding energy." That's what I put >> down, but I don't understand why, or can't add any more suitable >> explanation than that. >> >> Anyone have anything to add? >> >> Deuterium Don >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From gene at fossilnut.com Fri Aug 25 04:19:17 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Fri Aug 25 04:19:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins ruleof atomic abundance References: <44EE549B.7050104@verizon.net> <44EE5F7C.512C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <003c01c6c838$4e7bd560$6400a8c0@hppav> When we get paired electrons the 'spins' are reversed which is a lower energy state. Don, note that Harkins rule refers to the protons. I don't think it says anything about the neutrons. You included neutrons in your answer and I'm not sure that is correct, at least I have only seen sawtooth graphs representing atomic number. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins ruleof atomic abundance > Hi Don, > > Imagine a typical hydrogen atom with single electron orbiting around it. > It is lopsided, always out of balance, with the center of gravity moving > about the central proton due to the single electron spinning around it. > Single electrons are not insignificant. > > Now imagine a helium atom with two electrons going around it. The > electrons are going to avoid each other due to charge, so the atom is > usually symmetrical; the center of gravity is not moving as the > electrons whirl around opposit sides of the protons and neutrons at the > center. > > Atoms with a moving center of gravity don't feel good (upset stomach?), > and are much less likely to form or survive; when anything quivers and > shakes too much, it will fall apart and assume a more stable (and/or > symmetrical) configuration. > > Even atomic numbers imply symmetric electrons, and a more stable center > of gravity. > > I hope this helps. > > Kreigh > > > > > > DonH wrote: >> >> Howdy, >> >> Now I feel like one of those school kids who joins a mailing list and >> asks a question that you just know is about a homework problem. >> >> Yes, this is about a homework problem, and I found the answer, but it >> really doesn't explain things for me. >> >> The rule states that elements with even atomic numbers are more abundant >> than ones with odd atomic numbers. The answer, apparently, is that >> "Elements with even numbers of protons and neutrons are more stable >> because they have greater nuclear binding energy." That's what I put >> down, but I don't understand why, or can't add any more suitable >> explanation than that. >> >> Anyone have anything to add? >> >> Deuterium Don >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Fri Aug 25 07:38:43 2006 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Fri Aug 25 07:38:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NC emerald Message-ID: <44EF0B73.8040308@ncmail.net> another large emerald from Hiddenite, NC, 10 inches & 591 cts. http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/15356468.html Kenny From dr00bert at gmail.com Fri Aug 25 07:47:26 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Fri Aug 25 07:47:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NC emerald In-Reply-To: <44EF0B73.8040308@ncmail.net> References: <44EF0B73.8040308@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040608250747v3b8f073dhcd2945421d848cc5@mail.gmail.com> Here is a link with a picture of the crystal, what a find! http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/15355503.htm Drew On 8/25/06, Kenny Gay wrote: > > another large emerald from Hiddenite, NC, 10 inches & 591 cts. > > http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/15356468.html > > Kenny > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Fri Aug 25 07:57:15 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Aug 25 07:57:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NC emerald In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608250747v3b8f073dhcd2945421d848cc5@mail.gmail.com> References: <44EF0B73.8040308@ncmail.net> <7aac8040608250747v3b8f073dhcd2945421d848cc5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8t3ue25pu8hjfe7eijn3f0eu3o9t36t85r@4ax.com> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:47:26 -0400, Drew wrote: >Here is a link with a picture of the crystal, what a find! > >http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/15355503.htm > (Requires registration.) >Drew > > >On 8/25/06, Kenny Gay wrote: >> >> another large emerald from Hiddenite, NC, 10 inches & 591 cts. >> >> http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/15356468.html >> >> Kenny -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From rocknate at gmail.com Fri Aug 25 08:09:45 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Fri Aug 25 08:09:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NC emerald In-Reply-To: <8t3ue25pu8hjfe7eijn3f0eu3o9t36t85r@4ax.com> References: <44EF0B73.8040308@ncmail.net> <7aac8040608250747v3b8f073dhcd2945421d848cc5@mail.gmail.com> <8t3ue25pu8hjfe7eijn3f0eu3o9t36t85r@4ax.com> Message-ID: Al, et al When I first visited the site the first link (the one without news in the URL did not require me to register when I used it. Only the second link required registration. Now when I try to return both links ask for registration - very mysterious............ At any rate it is one spectacular crystal!!! best regards, Nate Martin On 8/25/06, Al Balmer wrote: > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:47:26 -0400, Drew wrote: > > >Here is a link with a picture of the crystal, what a find! > > > >http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/15355503.htm > > > (Requires registration.) > > >Drew > > > > > >On 8/25/06, Kenny Gay wrote: > >> > >> another large emerald from Hiddenite, NC, 10 inches & 591 cts. > >> > >> http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/15356468.html > >> > >> Kenny > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > From dr00bert at gmail.com Fri Aug 25 08:35:00 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Fri Aug 25 08:35:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NC emerald In-Reply-To: References: <44EF0B73.8040308@ncmail.net> <7aac8040608250747v3b8f073dhcd2945421d848cc5@mail.gmail.com> <8t3ue25pu8hjfe7eijn3f0eu3o9t36t85r@4ax.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040608250835x26318158ied2213ebbd1a010@mail.gmail.com> Sorry about that, I must've checked the "keep me logged in" box, when I cleared my history, cookies and temp files, it prompted me for the username and password . If you want to take a look without registering, take a look at the BugMeNot site, http://www.bugmenot.com/view/www.charlotte.com and use one of those logins (not guaranteed to work). Sorry about that! Drew On 8/25/06, Nathan Martin wrote: > > Al, et al > > When I first visited the site the first link (the one without news in > the URL did not require me to register when I used it. Only the > second link required registration. Now when I try to return both > links ask for registration - very mysterious............ > > At any rate it is one spectacular crystal!!! > > best regards, > Nate Martin > > On 8/25/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:47:26 -0400, Drew < dr00bert@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >Here is a link with a picture of the crystal, what a find! > > > > > > http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/15355503.htm > > > > > (Requires registration.) > > > > >Drew > > > > > > > > >On 8/25/06, Kenny Gay < Kenny.Gay@ncmail.net> wrote: > > >> > > >> another large emerald from Hiddenite, NC, 10 inches & 591 cts. > > >> > > >> http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/15356468.html > > >> > > >> Kenny > > > > -- > > Al Balmer > > Sun City, AZ > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Fri Aug 25 11:19:07 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Aug 25 11:19:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NC emerald In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608250835x26318158ied2213ebbd1a010@mail.gmail.com> References: <44EF0B73.8040308@ncmail.net> <7aac8040608250747v3b8f073dhcd2945421d848cc5@mail.gmail.com> <8t3ue25pu8hjfe7eijn3f0eu3o9t36t85r@4ax.com> <7aac8040608250835x26318158ied2213ebbd1a010@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:35:00 -0400, Drew wrote: >Sorry about that, I must've checked the "keep me logged in" box, when I >cleared my history, cookies and temp files, it prompted me for the username >and password . If you want to take a look without registering, take a look >at the BugMeNot site, http://www.bugmenot.com/view/www.charlotte.com and use >one of those logins (not guaranteed to work). > >Sorry about that! >Drew > Drew, thanks for the reminder about bugmenot! I had forgotten to reload the Firefox extension when I upgraded. For those using Firefox, here's where to get it: http://roachfiend.com/archives/2005/02/07/bugmenot/ > >On 8/25/06, Nathan Martin wrote: >> >> Al, et al >> >> When I first visited the site the first link (the one without news in >> the URL did not require me to register when I used it. Only the >> second link required registration. Now when I try to return both >> links ask for registration - very mysterious............ >> >> At any rate it is one spectacular crystal!!! >> >> best regards, >> Nate Martin >> >> On 8/25/06, Al Balmer wrote: >> > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:47:26 -0400, Drew < dr00bert@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > >Here is a link with a picture of the crystal, what a find! >> > > >> > > http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/15355503.htm >> > > >> > (Requires registration.) >> > >> > >Drew >> > > >> > > >> > >On 8/25/06, Kenny Gay < Kenny.Gay@ncmail.net> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> another large emerald from Hiddenite, NC, 10 inches & 591 cts. >> > >> >> > >> http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/15356468.html >> > >> >> > >> Kenny -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From SMKELL45 at aol.com Fri Aug 25 12:34:11 2006 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 25 12:34:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] witherite Message-ID: Bought a witherite at the West Springfield show with an England location. I'm having difficulty clarifying the location. It's Bulman's Rise,Second Sun Vein, Alston , England. Haven't been able to find " Bulman's Rise". Did find some reference to "Second Sun Vein" in mindat. Does this location sound familiar to anyone? smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Fri Aug 25 13:24:40 2006 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Fri Aug 25 13:24:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] witherite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001401c6c884$7eaf1700$7a30f051@Rik> The Smallcleugh Mine, Nenthead, Alston Moor District, North Pennines, Cumbria, UK has a "Second Sun Vein" ; the part of the name "Bulman's Rise" doesn't ring a bell. There is a Double Rise and a Pickering's Rise, but no mention of a "Bulman's Rise". See http://www.mineexplorer.org.uk/smallcleugh/smallcleugh_mcssv_ncv_090705/smallcleugh_newcrossvein_090705.htm http://homepage.ntlworld.com/scott.heyden/archives2001.htm Several sources mention witherite from that mine, so it might be a strong possibility. See e.g. http://www.rock-site.co.uk/Pages/Alston%20Moor%20Minerals/index.htm I copy this message directly to minerals@rock-site.co.uk ; perhaps we will hear from them, and get some first-hand information. (Hello there in England, did it make sense what I found ? Heard of a "Bulman's Rise" in the Smallcleugh mine ?) Greetings, and have a nice week-end, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of SMKELL45@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:34 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] witherite Bought a witherite at the West Springfield show with an England location. I'm having difficulty clarifying the location. It's Bulman's Rise,Second Sun Vein, Alston , England. Haven't been able to find " Bulman's Rise". Did find some reference to "Second Sun Vein" in mindat. Does this location sound familiar to anyone? smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Aug 25 15:18:19 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Aug 25 15:15:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] witherite References: Message-ID: <44EF768D.13DB@Tomaszewski.net> SMKELL45@aol.com wrote: > > Bought a witherite at the West Springfield show with an England location. > I'm having difficulty clarifying the location. It's Bulman's Rise,Second Sun > Vein, Alston , England. Haven't been able to find " Bulman's Rise". Did find > some reference to "Second Sun Vein" in mindat. Does this location sound > familiar to anyone? smkell That would probably be the Brownley Hill Mine. You could probably find Bulman's Rise listed on mine plans that can be purchased from mineexplorer.org.uk. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Aug 25 16:57:33 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Aug 25 16:54:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins rule of atomic abundance References: <44EE549B.7050104@verizon.net> <44EE5F7C.512C@Tomaszewski.net> <44EE6174.7020303@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44EF8DC1.5AAF@Tomaszewski.net> Try this explanation... http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch23/natural.php Kreigh DonH wrote: > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > Even atomic numbers imply symmetric electrons, and a more stable center > > of gravity. > > Thanks guys! > > Aha! I asked a few older students (who already had the course, no less) > if it had to do with electrons, and they said no, it was all about the > formation of nuclei in the star, but they couldn't remember the exact > reason. > > This may show up on a test--Kreigh, do you happen to have a reference > for that, or do you remember it from your own studies? > > Best, > Don > From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Aug 25 17:05:20 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Aug 25 17:05:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins rule of atomic abundance In-Reply-To: <44EF8DC1.5AAF@Tomaszewski.net> References: <44EE549B.7050104@verizon.net> <44EE5F7C.512C@Tomaszewski.net> <44EE6174.7020303@verizon.net> <44EF8DC1.5AAF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Interesting but doesn't offer any explanation for the disparity. BK On 8/25/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Try this explanation... > > http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch23/natural.php > > Kreigh > > > DonH wrote: > > > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > Even atomic numbers imply symmetric electrons, and a more stable > center > > > of gravity. > > > > Thanks guys! > > > > Aha! I asked a few older students (who already had the course, no less) > > if it had to do with electrons, and they said no, it was all about the > > formation of nuclei in the star, but they couldn't remember the exact > > reason. > > > > This may show up on a test--Kreigh, do you happen to have a reference > > for that, or do you remember it from your own studies? > > > > Best, > > Don > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Aug 25 17:08:14 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Aug 25 17:06:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] getting deep: help explaining Odd-Harkins rule of atomic abundance In-Reply-To: <44EF8DC1.5AAF@Tomaszewski.net> References: <44EE549B.7050104@verizon.net> <44EE5F7C.512C@Tomaszewski.net> <44EE6174.7020303@verizon.net> <44EF8DC1.5AAF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <44EF90EE.7050400@verizon.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Try this explanation... > > http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch23/natural.php > Kreigh Excellent page! A little deeper than we need to go for class, but superb info. We were just a little behind in lecture, is all. Today we went over much of the necessary material for the assignment. The reason for the relative proportions of even elements is related to the very early development of hydrogen nuclei into helium nuclei, which then combine in pairs of 4, 6, 8, etc. It is of course also possible to produce elements of 3, 5, 7, etc. protons, but there are issues regarding abundances, probability, the necessary energies, etc. I had a procedure under general anaesthesia this morning and am still a little "tipsy"; it's not wearing off as fast this time as last time. I'll explain more later when I "sober up" and after I review my notes from class, which I'd better do soon since I can barely read them. Best, Don From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Fri Aug 25 17:35:19 2006 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (Sandra B. Gee) Date: Fri Aug 25 17:35:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NC emerald In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060826003520.23324.qmail@web34206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Nate, I'm sure the newspaper site sent your computer some cookies. When you go back a second time, the newspaper site recognizes the cookies that it left previously and then asks you to register. What seems to work for me is to empty my cookie folder. Then, you can probably get back on to the link without registering. Hope this helps. Sandra Gee, Houston, TX --- Nathan Martin wrote: > Al, et al > > When I first visited the site the first link (the > one without news in > the URL did not require me to register when I used > it. Only the > second link required registration. Now when I try > to return both > links ask for registration - very > mysterious............ > > At any rate it is one spectacular crystal!!! > > best regards, > Nate Martin > > On 8/25/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:47:26 -0400, Drew > wrote: > > > > >Here is a link with a picture of the crystal, > what a find! > > > > > > >http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/15355503.htm > > > > > (Requires registration.) > > > > >Drew > > > > > > > > >On 8/25/06, Kenny Gay > wrote: > > >> > > >> another large emerald from Hiddenite, NC, 10 > inches & 591 cts. > > >> > > >> > http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/15356468.html > > >> > > >> Kenny > > > > -- > > Al Balmer > > Sun City, AZ > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jabac at hal-pc.org Fri Aug 25 21:52:46 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Fri Aug 25 21:51:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geologists and Astronomers Argue Over the Meaning of Pluton In-Reply-To: <44EA7E26.67AD@Tomaszewski.net> References: <44EA7E26.67AD@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <44EFD39E.1090007@hal-pc.org> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > See > > http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060821/full/060821-4.html > > Kreigh > Re: the above story. What is amazing to me is that a full "professional body" of scientists would take a few computer word-checkers as their authority on word usage. Ad-hoc wonders will never cease... john From efkern at earthlink.net Fri Aug 25 22:47:19 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Fri Aug 25 22:47:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] pluto = minor planet Message-ID: <001301c6c8d3$18ba3930$f5fdf604@TheBlackAdder> For whatever it's worth.........Size matters to some people..... Erich Kern ********************* pluto = minor planet ********************* From: Frank Spera FOLKS: I would not worry too much about these semantic games. pluto has been re classified as a MINOR PLANET like about 8000 other recoverable objects of the Main Belt asteroids. Pluto is simply one of the larger Kuiper Belt objects, some of which are large enough to be classified as MINOR PLANETS. fs *Pluto gets the boot **Pluto no longer a planet, say astronomers *Thursday, August 24, 2006; Posted: 5:24 p.m. EDT (21:24 GMT) *PRAGUE, Czech Republic (AP) -- Leading astronomers declared Thursday that Pluto is no longer a planet under historic new guidelines that downsize the solar system from nine planets to eight. *After a tumultuous week of clashing over the essence of the cosmos, the International Astronomical Union stripped Pluto of the planetary status it has held since its discovery in 1930. The new definition of what is -- and isn't -- a planet fills a centuries-old black hole for scientists who have labored since Copernicus without one. Although astronomers applauded after the vote, Jocelyn Bell Burnell -- a specialist in neutron stars from Northern Ireland who oversaw the proceedings -- urged those who might be "quite disappointed" to look on the bright side. "It could be argued that we are creating an umbrella called 'planet' under which the dwarf planets exist," she said, drawing laughter by waving a stuffed Pluto of Walt Disney fame beneath a real umbrella. The decision by the prestigious international group spells out the basic tests that celestial objects will have to meet before they can be considered for admission to the elite cosmic club. For now, membership will be restricted to the eight "classical" planets in the solar system: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. Much-maligned Pluto doesn't make the grade under the new rules for a planet: "a celestial body that is in orbit around the sun, has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a ... nearly round shape, and has cleared the neighborhood around its orbit." Pluto is automatically disqualified because its oblong orbit overlaps with Neptune's. Instead, it will be reclassified in a new category of "dwarf planets," similar to what long have been termed "minor planets." The definition also lays out a third class of lesser objects that orbit the sun -- "small solar system bodies," a term that will apply to numerous asteroids, comets and other natural satellites. It was unclear how Pluto's demotion might affect the mission of NASA's New Horizons spacecraft, which earlier this year began a 91/2-year journey to the oddball object to unearth more of its secrets. The decision at a conference of 2,500 astronomers from 75 countries was a dramatic shift from just a week ago, when the group's leaders floated a proposal that would have reaffirmed Pluto's planetary status and made planets of its largest moon and two other objects. (_Watch why some think planet size doesn't matter -- 3:39_) That plan proved highly unpopular, splitting astronomers into factions and triggering days of sometimes combative debate that led to Pluto's undoing. Now, two of the objects that at one point were cruising toward possible full-fledged planethood will join Pluto as dwarfs: the asteroid Ceres, which was a planet in the 1800s before it got demoted, and 2003 UB313, an icy object slightly larger than Pluto whose discoverer, Michael Brown of the California Institute of Technology, has nicknamed "Xena." Charon, the largest of Pluto's three moons, is no longer under consideration for any special designation. Brown was pleased by the decision. He had argued that Pluto and similar bodies didn't deserve planet status, saying that would "take the magic out of the solar system." "UB313 is the largest dwarf planet. That's kind of cool," he said. // -- They made a wasteland and called it peace. Tacitus (55-115 AD) Frank J. Spera Department of Earth Science University of California Santa Barbara, California 93106 ****************************************************** From rockhound at btinternet.com Sat Aug 26 01:19:31 2006 From: rockhound at btinternet.com (Neil A) Date: Sat Aug 26 01:19:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: Trying ti pinpoint location of Bulman's Rise, Second Sun Vein, Alston Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Mike [mailto:mike@mineexplorer.org.uk] Sent: 26 August 2006 08:05 To: Neil A Subject: Re: Trying ti pinpoint location of Bulman's Rise,Second Sun Vein, Alston Hi Neil, There are loads of 2nd sun veins in various different mines, it would help if you could get a prefix name for the vein and then that would narrow it down. As for Bulman's Rise, it is not a name I have come across. Saying all that, I may be wrong but I think that Witherite was mined in Nentsberry Haggs Mine, and that does have a 2nd sun vein, but no prefix name to it as far as I know. Check on mindat under Nentsberry and look at sample pics, you may get some joy there if there are any sample pics from that mine / vein. Regards, Mike. In message , Neil A writes > >Mike > >You don't know me, I found you through The Mine Explorer Society web >site, which I check out occsionally. > >Can you help out with this query which I received from a mineral collecting >mail group I am a member of. It is a long time since I was up in the area >and all my stuff, including my copy of the BGS guide for the area?is >archived away. > >Bought a witherite at the West Springfield show with an England location. > >I'm having difficulty clarifying the location. It's Bulman's Rise,Second Sun > >Vein, Alston , England. Haven't been able to find " Bulman's Rise". Did find > >some reference to "Second Sun Vein" in mindat. Does this location sound > >familiar to anyone? > >? > >Regards > >Neil Auty > >[ A MIME image / gif part was included here. ] > -- Email: mike@mineexplorer.org.uk WebSite: http://www.mineexplorer.org.uk From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Aug 26 08:41:21 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Aug 26 08:41:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mastadon/Mammoth Tusk Found in Saltville, VA References: <7aac8040608241001h63283902n3e4e469541d25939@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002e01c6c926$14b53d00$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Two foot piece of tusk is insufficient to determine mammoth vs. mastodon. It needs to be long enough to show the curvature. In our park collectiopn, we have a leg bone that fits nicely in the bucket of a trackhoe from a sand and gravel pit. Because the articulation surfaces are gone, it is impossible to say whether it is a mastodon or mammoth, though mammoths are more common in the Ohio River sand and gravel deposits. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:01 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mastadon/Mammoth Tusk Found in Saltville, VA >A Mastadon/Mammoth (officials aren't sure because no teeth were found with > it) tusk was recently found in Saltville, VA, here's an article from > Richmond Times-Dispatch > > http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149190019400&path=!news&s=1045855934842 > > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jemstone at amug.org Sat Aug 26 13:40:43 2006 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Sat Aug 26 13:40:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geologists and Astronomers Argue Over the Meaningof Pluton References: <44EA7E26.67AD@Tomaszewski.net> <44EFD39E.1090007@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <002601c6c94f$e9747280$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> On the other hand, anything that gets geologists "hopping" can't be all bad. Imagine a field trip with a number of hopping geologists - popping up and down like bunnies. I find the vision somewhat exciting. Checking the word "pluton" with Microsoft's Word dictionary is all that's necessary. If Microsoft is not the final word, why are there so many anti-trust suits here and in Europe. Plus, some of the attendees at the conference were photographed with stuffed Pluto dogs. It seems the confusion existed well before these folks stole "pluton" from geologists. I think this whole fiasco can be blamed on Disney. This email was totally fact based. No opinions were used. Unfortunately, my dog UB313 ate the references. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> See >> >> http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060821/full/060821-4.html >> >> Kreigh >> > Re: the above story. > > What is amazing to me is that a full "professional body" of scientists > would take a few computer word-checkers as their authority on word usage. > > Ad-hoc wonders will never cease... > > john From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Aug 26 14:48:05 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Sat Aug 26 14:46:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Geologists and Astronomers Argue Over the Meaningof Pluton In-Reply-To: <002601c6c94f$e9747280$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> References: <44EA7E26.67AD@Tomaszewski.net> <44EFD39E.1090007@hal-pc.org> <002601c6c94f$e9747280$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <44F0C195.8060600@hal-pc.org> John McLaughlin wrote: > On the other hand, anything that gets geologists "hopping" can't be all > bad. Imagine a field trip with a number of hopping geologists - popping > up and down like bunnies. I find the vision somewhat exciting. > > Checking the word "pluton" with Microsoft's Word dictionary is all > that's necessary. If Microsoft is not the final word, why are there so > many anti-trust suits here and in Europe. Plus, some of the attendees > at the conference were photographed with stuffed Pluto dogs. It seems > the confusion existed well before these folks stole "pluton" from > geologists. I think this whole fiasco can be blamed on Disney. > > This email was totally fact based. No opinions were used. > Unfortunately, my dog UB313 ate the references. > > John McLaughlin > Glendale, Arizona > > > >> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> >>> See >>> >>> http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060821/full/060821-4.html >>> >>> Kreigh >>> >> Re: the above story. >> >> What is amazing to me is that a full "professional body" of scientists >> would take a few computer word-checkers as their authority on word usage. >> >> Ad-hoc wonders will never cease... >> >> john > > Well Goggle my Google! Who would have thunk someone would have a dog named UB'ie. And from a litter of over 300 at that! Surely an astral dog (from Sirius...or is it serious?). Rumor has it that the actual vote was taken on the final day of the conference with about 400 of the original 2500 attendees still present. I don't know what the tally was..could it have been a voice vote? Isn't it really, though, somewhat of another fine example of Pd.D. making in action? Trying to define finer and finer details of that which is already known, generally accepted, and better left alone? There's just so much that can be ascertained about Charles Dickens without burying him in trivia...or in moving boundary fences from one range to another. It's not as though someone is trying to propose a radical new idea or interpretation. And to my knowledge no one has yet come up with an adequate theory as to why there are so many "asteroids" (etc) in the first place. LaGrange died before he could propose what would probably have become an exploding-planet theory, and few have dared to tackle the real question since; it would seem easier to accept the condensation/tidal theory and be done with it. I don't argue that there should be so many; it would seem more likely that there be more rather than less (given the generally messy way natural macro events work), but how did it all happen? But, why not? More's the humour for it and all that. Jolly good show! john From rockhounds at adelphia.net Sat Aug 26 18:00:45 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Sat Aug 26 17:59:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Teton Wyoming rockhounding In-Reply-To: <44E3A671.2D2A@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000001c6c974$3a397070$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Hi all Anybody familiar with rock hounding opportunities in the Jackson Hole area? Will be there for 5 days and hope to explore a bit. Kelly H From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Aug 27 08:57:43 2006 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Aug 27 08:58:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] witherite In-Reply-To: <44EF768D.13DB@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <00f301c6c9f1$896a8a80$11d4c850@Rik> This is the information I got from Peter Briscoe, a specialist in the field - litterally - who lives in the neighbourhood. <<<<>>>> Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:18 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] witherite SMKELL45@aol.com wrote: > > Bought a witherite at the West Springfield show with an England location. > I'm having difficulty clarifying the location. It's Bulman's Rise,Second Sun > Vein, Alston , England. Haven't been able to find " Bulman's Rise". Did find > some reference to "Second Sun Vein" in mindat. Does this location sound > familiar to anyone? smkell That would probably be the Brownley Hill Mine. You could probably find Bulman's Rise listed on mine plans that can be purchased from mineexplorer.org.uk. -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From steve at net-link.net Sun Aug 27 12:36:01 2006 From: steve at net-link.net (Steve Johnson) Date: Sun Aug 27 12:36:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Pluto: Insights from a DPS Committee member Message-ID: <200608271936.k7RJa5de099818@mail2.mx.voyager.net> I happen to belong to another mailing list with astrophysicists and engineers. One, Brother Guy Consolmagno, is a member of the committee recently involved in revising the definition of a planet. He's also the curator of the Vatican Observatory's meteorite collection, and in his dissertation, proposed that comets were rubble piles in flight (later borne out through observation. Here's his narrative description of the events of the past week or so: (quoting here from Br. Guy) What follows is adapted from a column I wrote for a British weekly, and e-mails sent to the American Astronomical Society, Division for Planetary Sciences board (of which I am a member)... Never mind the 4,000 astronomers attending dozens of seminars and joint discussions about stars and galaxies in Prague (did you know that new evidence for dark energy has been found?); the news at the triennial General Assembly of the International Astronomical Union (IAU) is the changing status of Pluto. General Assemblies are different from typical scientific congresses. Rather than being focused exclusively on presenting scientific results, the main point is to decide on all the arbitrary but necessary definitions that let us talk to each other and understand each others? data. For example, we?re worrying about tweaking the definition of latitude and longitude on the Moon to match the the expected precision of the coming generation of lunar spacecraft from India, China, Japan, and the US. Likewise, defining ?what is a planet? is both arbitrary and necessary. How do we name the newly discovered objects out beyond Pluto, that rival Pluto in size? (The rules, and the committees, for planets are different than those for comets and asteroids.) Which committee keeps track of their orbits, and assigns names to their surface features? What definition works for planets around other stars? I sat on earlier planet-defining committees, but always at the last moment our agreements fell apart. The following the proposal by the most recent committee (this time much smaller, and including historians and journalists as well as scientists and a meeting of IAU?s Division III (the planetary scientists? corner of the IAU) a general consensus formed around a slight modification of the original proposal. To be a planet, an object would have to be smaller than a star, in orbit around a star, but large enough to pull itself into a rounded shape. One then divides the planets in our solar system into the eight largest planets, whose gravity dominates their regions of space; a new class of less dominant, Pluto-like "dwarf planets"; and all the small bits of flotsam and jetsam like comets and asteroids. More controversial aspects reported in the news coming from the original definition, worrying about double planets and the like, were dropped in the final definition. And all the really tough issues, deciding which committees handle dwarf planets, including naming the new candidates in the outer solar system, will be left to us in Division III. The process was interesting in its own right. The proposal from the five-person committee was presented the first week of the meeting, on a Wednesday, published in the meeting newspaper. It merely defined a planet on the basis gravity overcoming body forces to produce a shape approaching hydrostatic equilibrium. By that, Pluto and Ceres and the new big guys would all be planets. On Friday of that week, during a session of the business meeting of Division III, an open discussion was held where the dynamics people presented an alternative definition that also included as a necessary part of the definition the idea that a planet had to gravitationally dominate its region of space, causing noticeable perturbations on the star and the other big planets, and have "cleared out" its region of the solar system when it was formed. The resolutions committee of the IAU took these ideas and tried to simplify them so that the general public would get the idea, then published the new version in the conference paper on the following Tuesday. That Tuesday at noon was an hour-long session hosted by the President of the IAU, open to everyone that was very acrimonious, as the dynamics people felt their ideas were over-simplified. Others had a hard idea understanding those ideas. That evening, a second session was held, hosted by a member of the resolutions committee who is probably the most famous and well- respected astronomer in the world: Jocelyn Bell-Burnett (who is more famous for *not* getting the Nobel Prize than most Prized winners are!). She did a masterful job of listening and explaining, and then the new versions of the proposal were prepared for the final General Assembly on Thursday afternoon. The resolutions were divided into four parts. Resolution 5a is essentially what passed. There was then a vote on 5b, adding the word "classical" to describe the big eight planets. As Dr. Bell-Burnett very cleverly illustrated, the intent of this was to maintain that both Pluto-sized bodies and the big 8 are planets, just different kinds of planets. The vote on 5a, defining three classes of bodies (planets, dwarf planets, small solar system bodies) passed overwhelmingly. 5b, which would have named planets as "classical planets" and thus included "dwarf planets" as a kind of planet, failed narrowly (by about 50 votes. Then came two resolutions, to confirm Pluto's "specialness". 6a, noting that Pluto is the first discovered of a new population of bodies in the Transneptunian region, passed handily. 6b, naming this population "plutonian objects" failed by less than ten votes. To me, the final definition makes scientific sense: my own research shows a distinct difference between small but compact objects like Pluto and the loose rubble piles of asteroids. And one advantage of this definition is its creative ambiguity. In reply to the question, ?Is Pluto a planet?? it will be equally true to say, ?yes, it?s a dwarf planet? and ?no, it?s a dwarf planet.? That reflects the ambiguity of nature itself. --Brother "outgoing IAU Commission 16 president..." Guido ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 15:24:22 -0400 And the followup, based on more e-mails to the DPS committee... Following this vote and all the press attention (it's August, and the Silly Season) a bunch of planetary scientists in the US who didn't like the fact that their pet resolution failed, have started circulating a "petition" asking that the matter be "reopened." The DPS was asked to take a stand on this... and I commented: The petition is an expression of unrest, but practically, think about it; what possible change can it effect? The only people who can take any action at all are the executive committee of the IAU, but remember, the result that came out of the IAU was NOT what the executive committee wanted -- thus for them to do anything at all but to quietly accept the vote would be seen, legitimately, as a violation of the IAU's own rules and as the executive committee dictatorially imposing its will, even if it were only to say that the issue was going to be revisited. Believe me, you had to be there to understand the passions on this issue among IAU members... and to be impressed with how well they did, given those passions. I am reminded of my friends who bitch and moan about US politics but in fact are not registered voters. The fact is, dynamicists are more active in the IAU, and their presence won the day. On the other hand, at my Commission 16 meeting at this IAU the entire turnout of scientists who study planets and moons was FIVE PEOPLE. Out of a commission membership of over 200. The disgrace is not in the IAU, but in the planetary sciences community who for more than a decade now have been studiously ignoring the IAU, refusing to spend the time working on its committees, often even refusing to come to give review talks about matters of interest to the wider astronomical community, too often refusing to attending the GAs (or parachuting in just for the one session they are interested in, without sticking around for the commission meetings and the opening and closing General Assemblies where these matters are voted upon), on the excuse that "I can't be bothered, I'm too busy." Fine. If you can't be bothered to do the scut work year in and year out to make the IAU and its commissions work (and believe me, it's time consuming work of the sort that is noticed only when it isn't done!), then you have no right to let yourself be bothered by what results you end up with when a vote at the IAU doesn't go your way. And you certainly have no right to critique a process that you weren't there to see. The IAU is important for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that there is a real sense outside the US that the US dominates astronomy, and the IAU goes out of its way to balance this issue. For the Division for Planetary Science of the American Astronomical Society to do anything other than endorse the IAU will be seen as the US attempting to force its will on the world. Yet again. I will note in passing, having sat on the original (stalemated) 19 member committee to make this definition, I have heard every possible definition; and I have heard every possible rebuttal to every possible definition. You can easily get a majority to agree that "something better" is possible, but you'll never get a majority to agree on what that "something better" is! Though the IAU didn't end up exactly where I would have liked, either, I can live with what passed and in fact it's much closer to what I would want than I ever expected to get. I am satisfied that the procedure was as fair as the IAU could have made it, and that the final definition is one that will adequately allow the IAU's Division III to get on with its work. And that, after all, is what was the vote was all about. It's an IAU document for IAU's purposes. The IAU knows (as it said explicitly at the GA) that it can't control the definition of words in all the world's languages, or how the general public uses those words. It can only define terms so as to determine how it goes about distributing its work load to appropriate committees and working groups. Finally, a point that I think we scientists forget is that a definition is not a computer program. One can (and must) depend on common sense and good will to prevail over inadequate syntax. Brother "... and incoming DPS chairperson" Guido (end of quotation from Br. Guy) Best regards, - Steve ----------------- Steven F. Johnson --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Aug 27 14:52:41 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Aug 27 14:47:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Pluto: Insights from a DPS Committee member References: <200608271936.k7RJa5de099818@mail2.mx.voyager.net> Message-ID: <44F212F9.3126@Tomaszewski.net> Steve, That was a very insightful posting. Thank you for sharing it. Kreigh Steve Johnson wrote: > > I happen to belong to another mailing list with astrophysicists and engineers. One, Brother Guy Consolmagno, is a member of the committee recently involved in revising the definition of a planet. He's also the curator of the Vatican Observatory's meteorite collection, and in his dissertation, proposed that comets were rubble piles in flight (later borne out through observation. Here's his narrative description of the events of the past week or so: From cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net Sun Aug 27 21:39:12 2006 From: cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net (Cliff Jackson) Date: Sun Aug 27 21:39:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dugway UT trip report Message-ID: <20599520.1156739952856.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Went to the Dugway Geo site in Utah on Statuary. When we arrived one of the claim owner was there with a large track backhoe, digging up a large area. His helpers were going thru the new large piles of materials and collecting what geodes they could find. After they were done he gave us permission to go in and collect. It took my friend and I about 30 minutes to collect three 5gal buckets. Most of what we collected where baseball to softball size but there were a lot of smaller ones as well. Spent Sunday cutting and every one over three inches was a geode. The smaller ones ran about 50/50 geodes and thunder eggs. The claim owner was very nice and has no problem with rock hounds coming in and collecting but we may lose the privilege. Someone had been there and did several thousand dollars damage to his equipment that had been left at the site. Please make sure that when at a site not to mess with anything that clearly is being use to work a claim were we, as rock hounds, still have access. And if you see someone being a vandals get as much info, such as auto plate # and description and photos so it can be reported. Cliff Jackson Las Vegas From jlkelly1066 at iglide.net Mon Aug 28 07:41:37 2006 From: jlkelly1066 at iglide.net (jlkelly1066) Date: Mon Aug 28 07:41:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 27, Issue 29 Message-ID: <44f300a1.319.5fa6.23981@iglide.net> Kelly, Lived in the Jackson Hole/Victor, ID area for several years. Not much there, a few fossils on some of the high peaks but anything in that area has to be done with great care and caution, particularly this time of year because of the bears gathering food preparatory to hibernation. L. Kelly From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Aug 28 11:23:42 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Aug 28 11:23:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: My first mineral ebay endeavor Message-ID: Hi list I just placed my first mineral for auction on e-Bay. please look at: http://cgi.ebay.com/Pyrite-cabinet-size-specimen-Huanzala-Mine-Peru_W0QQitem Z230023363619QQihZ013QQcategoryZ23880QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Go for it ;-))) Axel Emmermann --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Aug 28 13:35:21 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Aug 28 13:35:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: My first mineral ebay endeavor Message-ID: Nice piece. Someone will get a bargain. Glenn From: axel.emmermann@pandora.be Hi list I just placed my first mineral for auction on e-Bay. please look at: http://cgi.ebay.com/Pyrite-cabinet-size-specimen-Huanzala-Mine-Peru_W0QQitemZ230023363619QQihZ013QQcategoryZ23880QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Go for it ;-))) Axel Emmermann _________________________________________________________________ Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather&FORM=WLMTAG --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Mon Aug 28 16:08:21 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Mon Aug 28 16:08:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: My first mineral ebay endeavor References: Message-ID: <000701c6caf6$dc2e1150$6400a8c0@hppav> Axel and all. For those of you who are fluorescent lovers, some UV-B LED lights. I was surprised at just how bright these are and how well the LW items I have fluorese with these. I bought a 21 LED and a 49 LED version. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220021288116 They are supposed to be ~380 nm. Kind of a new toy for us fluorescent collectors. Really good on manganocalcite, wernerite, fluorites and others. For the fossil collectors this is a great way to show restoration on many specimens. Folks this is just enthusiasm. I do not get a nickel for any sales this fellow makes. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com" Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:23 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: My first mineral ebay endeavor > Hi list > > I just placed my first mineral for auction on e-Bay. > please look at: > http://cgi.ebay.com/Pyrite-cabinet-size-specimen-Huanzala-Mine-Peru_W0QQitem > Z230023363619QQihZ013QQcategoryZ23880QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > > Go for it ;-))) > > Axel Emmermann > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/ms-tnef > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From johnjold at comcast.net Mon Aug 28 21:03:22 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Mon Aug 28 21:03:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon and Dinger Rock Shop Follow-up Message-ID: <2d68f08336b3931e196f34177a55356d@comcast.net> I meant to give Amazon two months to contact me, as promised by the reporter who solved the mystery of the 101 reviews on Amazon in my name. My Mac, however, had the great courtesy to die 4 months before Apple Care runs out. So I am late. I have already contacted those members who were helpful in finding those reviews. If I had not attracted the attention of the reporter, this would still be unsolved. The perp was tracking me so close that My posts to this group would show up the same day on Amazon. That speed is why it seemed to be a leachbot. Many of you knew that was not possible but it sure seemed that way to me and others and our great reporter. Amazon is impossible to contact. When I got insistent, I would be shoved off to voicemail. I left 2 messages for Patty Smith, the reporters contact, fully describing what happened. No response. It is clear that there is no quality control at Amazon reviews. Any fool can say anything and it will be web published. Not only are the reviews crap, Amazon sells them to other web sites. I found many of those reviews on RBookshop. It is also clear that the Amazon buyers aren't all that bright either. My obituary notice for Betty Dinger received 2 helpful response checks for the book "It's a Real Dinger. The perp started their "hobby" last September. They published under 2 names and were somehow combining the 2 names with many reviews duplicated under two names. No control at Amazon at all, you would thing alarms would go off in the system. I think they were attempting to be funny, but it was hard to tell by the awful writing style. Some of the "reviews were exactly what I posted others were altered or used as a basis for something else. I have a pretty good idea who it is, but ignorant slacker lowlife types aren't worth bothering with. If they are still tracking my posts I would suggest that they "GET A LIFE!!!" Although Grandpa always said, "The best answer to a fool is silence, although any other would get the same response. The web is Dodge City and there isn't a Wyatt Earp. I did talk to a lawyer who summed up the situation by saying, "There is no law against being an ass hole." Using the same web name on multiple sites is a bad idea. Also Yahoo makes it far too easy to connect your real name to any name used on Yahoo. The two changes I have made are to use multiple web names and I dropped membership to all 13 Yahoo groups I had belonged to. Also Amazon is on my too classless to deal with list. Dinger's Rock Shop in Clam River Michigan Lives. Betty's daughter Linda has kept the shop open. She works nearby at her brothers marina on Torch Lake and the shop is tended by her friend, also Linda. She told me, "Ma was great, the shop is full of great stuff and it's all paid for." Last Christmas I posted here how Betty had got me started cutting Petoskey Stone Christmas ornaments. Linda told me that they had picked out a good one and buried Betty with it in her hand. That gets me a little every time I think about it. Since Linda does not live there the shop will only be open Memorial Day to Labor Day. You will find the shop off the highway between Elk Rapids and Petoskey Michigan. Go on US 31to Eastport and turn right and follow the road to Alden along the shore of Torch Lake. Those of you out in the dry treeless West ought to visit some Summer, the only season to visit Michigan, and see what lots of trees and lots of water looks like. From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Aug 28 21:04:06 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Aug 28 21:04:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] request for Sayreville, NJ, Raritan Formation lignite Message-ID: <44F3BCB6.9030104@verizon.net> Hi all, In the past, the late Cretaceous lignite beds of the Sayreville, NJ, region have been a topic. Most collectors seek the amber contained in it, but I never found much exciting for amber. I have about two test tubes full of small pieces. However, I did find original plant materials with visible cell walls and nuclei. My hopes for cloning and creating Cretaceous Park were dashed, but I kept them in water, and later polyethylene glycol, all these years. Sadly, these are a pain to carry around, and since my intention has always been to have them available for study, I offered them to our resident paleobotanist. Here are two of his websites: http://www.mines.uidaho.edu/~tertiary/ http://lsweb.la.asu.edu/kpigg/emeraldcreek1.htm When I showed him the little amber, the plant materials, and the hard wood pieces, he became excited and asked if I had any unpreserved. I explained that the material crumbles if left dry. He was sad and explained that he would like to extract pollen from a formation that old, to use as reference material. That is his specialty, if you can believe that someone specializes in fossil pollen. I described the scenario of Sayreville to him, and he assured me that he has extracted pollens from worse conditions. I know a lot of people from the list collected buckets of this material in the glory days. If anyone would like to put it to good use--dry or wet, he claims it doesn't matter to him, as long as there has been nothing added--we will pay for the shipping costs. Please let me know. I also told him, if someone donates some material and you get pollen out of it, you owe them a report, because people are weary of being asked for things and never hearing about what happens. He assures me he will report back on the material, and from what I've seen of him so far, I do believe him. Thanks, Don From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Aug 29 01:36:06 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Aug 29 01:36:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: My first mineral ebay endeavor In-Reply-To: <000701c6caf6$dc2e1150$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: Hi Gene, > For those of you who are fluorescent lovers, some UV-B LED lights. Thanks for the warning but 380-385 nm is UV-A, just barely. Most people still can see in that range of wavelengths so technically it is still "visible light". Still very useful and a cheap and interesting source of LW-UV to take to a mineral show or on a fieldtrip. I have four LED "UV" sources and they vary from 385 to 420 nm (390 and 400 in between ;-). 420 nm will light up some mangano calcite and ruby while 400 nm gets the wernerite, sodalite and uranyl minerals going. There's a world of difference in just 20 nm ;-))) 380-385 nm comes close to a general purpose LW source... 370-375 would be much better but also more expensive. I glued some 380 nm LEDs to my SuperbrightSW and they tap the same battery. Axel I was > surprised at just how bright these are and how well the LW items I have > fluorese with these. I bought a 21 LED and a 49 LED version. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220021288116 > > They are supposed to be ~380 nm. Kind of a new toy for us fluorescent > collectors. Really good on manganocalcite, wernerite, fluorites > and others. > > For the fossil collectors this is a great way to show restoration > on many > specimens. > > Folks this is just enthusiasm. I do not get a nickel for any sales this > fellow makes. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com" > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:23 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: My first mineral ebay endeavor > > > > Hi list > > > > I just placed my first mineral for auction on e-Bay. > > please look at: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Pyrite-cabinet-size-specimen-Huanzala-Mine-Per u_W0QQitem > Z230023363619QQihZ013QQcategoryZ23880QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > > Go for it ;-))) > > Axel Emmermann > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/ms-tnef > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Aug 29 02:04:05 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Aug 29 02:04:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: My first mineral ebay endeavor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Nice piece. Someone will get a bargain. > Glenn ;-))))) This piece as been in my collection for years. Now it has to make room for fluorescent minerals. It' s more like a try-out... E-bay is quite a fuzz for a seller if you're not used to it. Some of the list-members may think that I finally lost it and went astray in the realm of the esoteric... ;-))) Fact is that I don't care who buys the specimen and to what purpose. There will always be people looking for healing stones and lucky rocks and what have you. They may buy their rock from me as well as from the next guy... In fact, I prefer they buy it from me. That way they get at least the locality right ;-))) So, rest assured! I'm still 100% scientifically inclined. Axel Sorcerer, hypnotist, astrologer, medium Specializations: reading of goat droppings Extra low rates for exorcisms on Mon & Fri From gene at fossilnut.com Tue Aug 29 02:43:11 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Tue Aug 29 02:43:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] request for Sayreville, NJ, Raritan Formation lignite References: <44F3BCB6.9030104@verizon.net> Message-ID: <002301c6cb4f$8d1953a0$6400a8c0@hppav> Don; Send me his address off list. I still have buckets of the stuff. unpreserved... Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 12:04 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] request for Sayreville, NJ, Raritan Formation lignite > > Hi all, > > In the past, the late Cretaceous lignite beds of the Sayreville, NJ, > region have been a topic. Most collectors seek the amber contained in it, > but I never found much exciting for amber. I have about two test tubes > full of small pieces. However, I did find original plant materials with > visible cell walls and nuclei. My hopes for cloning and creating > Cretaceous Park were dashed, but I kept them in water, and later > polyethylene glycol, all these years. Sadly, these are a pain to carry > around, and since my intention has always been to have them available for > study, I offered them to our resident paleobotanist. Here are two of his > websites: > > http://www.mines.uidaho.edu/~tertiary/ > > http://lsweb.la.asu.edu/kpigg/emeraldcreek1.htm > > When I showed him the little amber, the plant materials, and the hard wood > pieces, he became excited and asked if I had any unpreserved. I explained > that the material crumbles if left dry. He was sad and explained that he > would like to extract pollen from a formation that old, to use as > reference material. That is his specialty, if you can believe that > someone specializes in fossil pollen. I described the scenario of > Sayreville to him, and he assured me that he has extracted pollens from > worse conditions. > > I know a lot of people from the list collected buckets of this material in > the glory days. If anyone would like to put it to good use--dry or wet, > he claims it doesn't matter to him, as long as there has been nothing > added--we will pay for the shipping costs. Please let me know. I also > told him, if someone donates some material and you get pollen out of it, > you owe them a report, because people are weary of being asked for things > and never hearing about what happens. He assures me he will report back > on the material, and from what I've seen of him so far, I do believe him. > > Thanks, > Don > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From gene at fossilnut.com Tue Aug 29 02:45:42 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Tue Aug 29 02:45:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: My first mineral ebay endeavor References: Message-ID: <003001c6cb4f$e7308750$6400a8c0@hppav> You are correct it is UV-A barely. Was typing too quickly. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 4:36 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] AD: My first mineral ebay endeavor > Hi Gene, > > >> For those of you who are fluorescent lovers, some UV-B LED lights. > > Thanks for the warning but 380-385 nm is UV-A, just barely. Most people > still can see in that range of wavelengths so technically it is still > "visible light". > Still very useful and a cheap and interesting source of LW-UV to take to a > mineral show or on a fieldtrip. > I have four LED "UV" sources and they vary from 385 to 420 nm (390 and 400 > in between ;-). > 420 nm will light up some mangano calcite and ruby while 400 nm gets the > wernerite, sodalite and uranyl minerals going. There's a world of > difference > in just 20 nm ;-))) > 380-385 nm comes close to a general purpose LW source... 370-375 would be > much better but also more expensive. > > I glued some 380 nm LEDs to my SuperbrightSW and they tap the same > battery. > > Axel > > > > > I was >> surprised at just how bright these are and how well the LW items I have >> fluorese with these. I bought a 21 LED and a 49 LED version. >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220021288116 >> >> They are supposed to be ~380 nm. Kind of a new toy for us fluorescent >> collectors. Really good on manganocalcite, wernerite, fluorites >> and others. >> >> For the fossil collectors this is a great way to show restoration >> on many >> specimens. >> >> Folks this is just enthusiasm. I do not get a nickel for any sales this >> fellow makes. >> >> Gene Hartstein >> Newark, DE >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Axel Emmermann" >> To: "Rockhounds@Lists.Drizzle.Com" >> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:23 PM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: My first mineral ebay endeavor >> >> >> > Hi list >> > >> > I just placed my first mineral for auction on e-Bay. >> > please look at: >> > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/Pyrite-cabinet-size-specimen-Huanzala-Mine-Per > u_W0QQitem >> Z230023363619QQihZ013QQcategoryZ23880QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem >> >> Go for it ;-))) >> >> Axel Emmermann >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/mixed >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> application/ms-tnef >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Aug 29 15:46:26 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Aug 29 15:46:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free book: North Carolina Mineral Localities, 1958 Message-ID: <44F4C3C2.2060402@verizon.net> Hi, Someone can have this pamphlet from 1958, North Carolina Dept. of Natural and Economic Resources, Mineral Localities of NC, 1958, revised 1971. Maps, info, a few B&W photos. All for the cost of mailing rounded up to the nearest dollar. Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Aug 29 15:49:36 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Aug 29 15:49:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free books: Australian rock & gem guides Message-ID: <44F4C480.4030505@verizon.net> This pair free for the cost of shipping rounded up to the nearest dollar: 1. The Australian Gemhunter's Guide, 212 pp., some pages loose, lots of info and a few B&W and color photos, 1971. 2. Australian Rocks and Minerals, 88 pp., text with a fair number of B&W & color photos, 1968. From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Aug 29 15:52:59 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Aug 29 15:52:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free books: PA and NJ minerals Message-ID: <44F4C54B.6020906@verizon.net> This pair free for the cost of mailing rounded up to the nearest dollar: 1. Annotated bibliography of minerals new to the penna. list 1965-1974, 83 pp., text. 2. mineral deposits of NJ and eastern PA, text with a few fold-out geologic map drawings, 54 pp., 1933. From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Aug 29 15:54:28 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Aug 29 15:54:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free books: Australian rock & gem guides (GONE) In-Reply-To: <44F4C480.4030505@verizon.net> References: <44F4C480.4030505@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44F4C5A4.3040104@verizon.net> sorry folks, taken already! From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 15:54:37 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Aug 29 15:54:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free book: North Carolina Mineral Localities, 1958 In-Reply-To: <44F4C3C2.2060402@verizon.net> References: <44F4C3C2.2060402@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040608291554i5792e565g5b7333b500d967e@mail.gmail.com> I'd love to have it. Let me know how much! Thanks, Drew Laing On 8/29/06, DonH wrote: > > > Hi, > > Someone can have this pamphlet from 1958, North Carolina Dept. of > Natural and Economic Resources, Mineral Localities of NC, 1958, revised > 1971. Maps, info, a few B&W photos. All for the cost of mailing rounded > up to the nearest dollar. > > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Aug 29 15:55:05 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Aug 29 15:55:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free book: North Carolina Mineral Localities, 1958 In-Reply-To: <44F4C3C2.2060402@verizon.net> References: <44F4C3C2.2060402@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040608291555k5898a6c5k460360f3d4ec9ad8@mail.gmail.com> Dang, that was supposed to be a private email, sorry everyone! Drew On 8/29/06, DonH wrote: > > > Hi, > > Someone can have this pamphlet from 1958, North Carolina Dept. of > Natural and Economic Resources, Mineral Localities of NC, 1958, revised > 1971. Maps, info, a few B&W photos. All for the cost of mailing rounded > up to the nearest dollar. > > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jpjunk at mc.net Tue Aug 29 16:02:16 2006 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Tue Aug 29 16:02:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free books: Australian rock & gem guides In-Reply-To: <44F4C480.4030505@verizon.net> References: <44F4C480.4030505@verizon.net> Message-ID: Don, I'd love to have the two Australian books. Estimated postage? John On Aug 29, 2006, at 5:49 PM, DonH wrote: > > This pair free for the cost of shipping rounded up to the nearest > dollar: > > 1. The Australian Gemhunter's Guide, 212 pp., some pages loose, > lots of info and a few B&W and color photos, 1971. > > 2. Australian Rocks and Minerals, 88 pp., text with a fair number > of B&W & color photos, 1968. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Tue Aug 29 16:11:23 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Tue Aug 29 16:11:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free books: Australian rock & gem guides References: <44F4C480.4030505@verizon.net> Message-ID: <9ed901c6cbc0$71f37da0$c0089444@remains> too late... :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Junkroski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] free books: Australian rock & gem guides > Don, > I'd love to have the two Australian books. > Estimated postage? > > John > On Aug 29, 2006, at 5:49 PM, DonH wrote: > >> >> This pair free for the cost of shipping rounded up to the nearest >> dollar: >> >> 1. The Australian Gemhunter's Guide, 212 pp., some pages loose, lots of >> info and a few B&W and color photos, 1971. >> >> 2. Australian Rocks and Minerals, 88 pp., text with a fair number of >> B&W & color photos, 1968. >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Tue Aug 29 16:11:23 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Tue Aug 29 16:11:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free books: Australian rock & gem guides References: <44F4C480.4030505@verizon.net> Message-ID: <9eda01c6cbc0$76db9820$c0089444@remains> too late... :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Junkroski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] free books: Australian rock & gem guides > Don, > I'd love to have the two Australian books. > Estimated postage? > > John > On Aug 29, 2006, at 5:49 PM, DonH wrote: > >> >> This pair free for the cost of shipping rounded up to the nearest >> dollar: >> >> 1. The Australian Gemhunter's Guide, 212 pp., some pages loose, lots of >> info and a few B&W and color photos, 1971. >> >> 2. Australian Rocks and Minerals, 88 pp., text with a fair number of >> B&W & color photos, 1968. >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Aug 29 16:31:24 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Aug 29 16:31:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free books: ALL GONE In-Reply-To: <44F4C54B.6020906@verizon.net> References: <44F4C54B.6020906@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44F4CE4C.9050101@verizon.net> Sorry folks, all booklets are gone. I think that was the fastest response I've ever seen to several posts. I hope everyone gets good use out of them--I need to consolidate and hate to throw out perfectly good material. Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Aug 29 20:09:59 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Aug 29 20:10:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free booklet: Geology of the Oatman District of AZ Message-ID: <44F50187.9040103@verizon.net> Hi all, One more freebie, same deal, you pay shipping rounded up. This is a small one from 1923, 58 pp., and a color fold-out map. If you already got a freebie today, please let someone else get a chance. Reply off-list. best, Don From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Aug 30 18:41:57 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Aug 30 18:42:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] collecting in the SE U.S. in October Message-ID: <000801c6cc9e$a5af8380$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I am working on plans for a collecting trip in mid October. Presently I am targeting South Carolina - North Carolina - Georgia if I target the Lafarge Quarry open house on Oct. 21. I have also been told about the Diamond Hill mine. Does anyone else familiar with the area have any suggestions - mineral or fossil? I don't have to do the Lafarge trip. I am looking at Oct. 19 - 23, but even that time frame is open. If there is anyone planning a collecting trip that myself and a couple of others could join, contact me directly or reply to the list. Alan Goldstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bearonweb at yahoo.com Wed Aug 30 20:26:51 2006 From: bearonweb at yahoo.com (David Bear) Date: Wed Aug 30 20:26:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What Makes Oatman What It Is Message-ID: <20060831032651.22780.qmail@web38915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ah, Oatman! Oatman! What a wonderful place. And the wild burros are everywhere! Very cool. David Bear Arizona Certified Legal Document Preparer: #80104 3116 S. Mill Ave., #459, Tempe AZ 85282 (480)829-3933 --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Aug 30 20:38:26 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Aug 30 20:38:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What Makes Oatman What It Is In-Reply-To: <20060831032651.22780.qmail@web38915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060831032651.22780.qmail@web38915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44F659B2.1020500@verizon.net> David Bear wrote: > Ah, Oatman! Oatman! What a wonderful place. And the wild burros are everywhere! Very cool. Well there you go. The pamphlet is still available, if anyone wants it, it is open to one and all. If I don't hear anything by Friday I'll give it to someone at school. best, Don From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Aug 31 03:42:21 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Aug 31 03:42:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] collecting in the SE U.S. in October In-Reply-To: <000801c6cc9e$a5af8380$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <003a01c6ccea$0c069790$0500a8c0@LaptopLand1> Alan: For places to be, things to do in the NC-Georgia area check out http://dirtyrockhounds.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=displa y&thread=1086274148 Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Alan Goldstein Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:42 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] collecting in the SE U.S. in October I am working on plans for a collecting trip in mid October. Presently I am targeting South Carolina - North Carolina - Georgia if I target the Lafarge Quarry open house on Oct. 21. I have also been told about the Diamond Hill mine. Does anyone else familiar with the area have any suggestions - mineral or fossil? I don't have to do the Lafarge trip. I am looking at Oct. 19 - 23, but even that time frame is open. If there is anyone planning a collecting trip that myself and a couple of others could join, contact me directly or reply to the list. Alan Goldstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 05:42:27 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Aug 31 05:42:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] collecting in the SE U.S. in October In-Reply-To: <003a01c6ccea$0c069790$0500a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <000801c6cc9e$a5af8380$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <003a01c6ccea$0c069790$0500a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <7aac8040608310542v1ee5e481sdc69742d25b01c3c@mail.gmail.com> Alan, the MAGMA club is very active in that area, depending on when in October you are going, you may be able to join a trip with them, here are the October trips that are planned, Graves Mountain Rock Swap and Dig, October 6-8th, 2006 Lincolnton, Georgia This dig is open to all clubs and collectors. Graves Mountain, October 14th, 2006 This one is just a club trip, for all who didn't make the above trip. You gotta be a member of MAGMA, although that is a really easy process, just email rick@wncrocks.com and tell him you want to join MAGMA... that's it! Standard Mineral Company, Glendon, North Carolina October 21st, 2006 Open to all mineral collectors. These were taken from this page, http://dirtyrockhounds.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1086274148 Other than these that are planned field trips, there are a lot of places to go in the WNC/SC area. Depending on what you want to collect, I could give you some spots. Drew On 31 Aug 2006 03:42:21 -0700, Ted Kowalski wrote: > > Alan: > For places to be, things to do in the NC-Georgia area check out > > http://dirtyrockhounds.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=displa > y&thread=1086274148 > > Ted Kowalski > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Alan Goldstein > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:42 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] collecting in the SE U.S. in October > > I am working on plans for a collecting trip in mid October. Presently I am > > targeting South Carolina - North Carolina - Georgia if I target the > Lafarge > Quarry open house on Oct. 21. I have also been told about the Diamond Hill > mine. Does anyone else familiar with the area have any suggestions - > mineral > or fossil? I don't have to do the Lafarge trip. I am looking at Oct. 19 - > 23, but even that time frame is open. If there is anyone planning a > collecting trip that myself and a couple of others could join, contact me > directly or reply to the list. > > Alan Goldstein > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Aug 31 08:01:39 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Aug 31 08:01:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: My first mineral ebay endeavor In-Reply-To: <003001c6cb4f$e7308750$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: > > > You are correct it is UV-A barely. Was typing too quickly. Mind you: there are already som UV-LEDs on the market but I doubt that you'd consider buying a device with 40 or so of those built in ;-)))) EXPENSIVE!!! Axel From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Thu Aug 31 09:49:16 2006 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Thu Aug 31 09:49:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free booklet: Geology of the Oatman District of AZ In-Reply-To: <44F50187.9040103@verizon.net> References: <44F50187.9040103@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44F7130C.8000507@azgs.az.gov> Don, If you haven't given that Oatman pamphlet away, I would be happy to take it off your hands. Rick DonH wrote: > > Hi all, > > One more freebie, same deal, you pay shipping rounded up. This is a > small one from 1923, 58 pp., and a color fold-out map. > > If you already got a freebie today, please let someone else get a chance. > > Reply off-list. > > best, > Don > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Aug 31 09:55:30 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Aug 31 09:55:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] free booklet: Geology of the Oatman District of AZ In-Reply-To: <44F7130C.8000507@azgs.az.gov> References: <44F50187.9040103@verizon.net> <44F7130C.8000507@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <44F71482.7020607@verizon.net> Richard Trapp wrote: > Don, > > If you haven't given that Oatman pamphlet away, I would be happy to take > it off your hands. > > Rick Very sorry, it has been taken. Don From aswain at nsd.org Wed Aug 30 17:13:21 2006 From: aswain at nsd.org (Ann Swain) Date: Thu Aug 31 10:49:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] I'd like a rock hound to come to my second grade class please Message-ID: Hello, I teach second grade at Woodin Elementary in Northshore School District. The school is located between Bothell and Woodinville off of 522. I have students who are very interested in rocks. I have a rock collection and would love to have a rockhound come to my class and help us identify the rocks and perhaps talk to the class about rock collecting. Please call me ASAP at (425) 402-5971. Thanks so much! Ann Swain From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 11:11:46 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Aug 31 11:11:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] I'd like a rock hound to come to my second grade class please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7aac8040608311111g3706f803nbc6f398f6f1d62f1@mail.gmail.com> Where are you located? Drew On 8/30/06, Ann Swain wrote: > > Hello, > I teach second grade at Woodin Elementary in Northshore School District. > The school is located between Bothell and Woodinville off of 522. I have > students who are very interested in rocks. I have a rock collection and > would love to have a rockhound come to my class and help us identify the > rocks and perhaps talk to the class about rock collecting. Please call me > ASAP at (425) 402-5971. Thanks so much! Ann Swain > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Aug 31 11:11:21 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Aug 31 11:14:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADMIN Re: I'd like a rock hound to come to my second grade classplease References: Message-ID: <006d01c6cd28$e4d8b0b0$0300a8c0@Notebook> Note that Ann is not a List member so contact her off list. John (Admin Team) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ann Swain" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:13 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] I'd like a rock hound to come to my second grade classplease > Hello, > I teach second grade at Woodin Elementary in Northshore School District. > From bg at his.com Thu Aug 31 11:30:27 2006 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Thu Aug 31 11:30:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] I'd like a rock hound to come to my second grade class please In-Reply-To: <7aac8040608311111g3706f803nbc6f398f6f1d62f1@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040608311111g3706f803nbc6f398f6f1d62f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ann is in washington state, not too far north of seattle. cathy On Aug 31, 2006, at 2:11 PM, Drew wrote: > Where are you located? > > Drew > > > On 8/30/06, Ann Swain wrote: >> >> Hello, >> I teach second grade at Woodin Elementary in Northshore School >> District. >> The school is located between Bothell and Woodinville off of 522. I >> have >> students who are very interested in rocks. I have a rock collection >> and >> would love to have a rockhound come to my class and help us identify >> the >> rocks and perhaps talk to the class about rock collecting. Please >> call me >> ASAP at (425) 402-5971. Thanks so much! Ann Swain >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Aug 31 16:20:04 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Aug 31 16:17:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] I'd like a rock hound to come to my second grade class please References: Message-ID: <44F76DFA.34BD@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Ann, Greetings from Michigan. Google tells me you are in Washington State after searching on the location clues you provided. That's a little far for me to travel. May I suggest you go to http://www.amfed.org and look for a Rock Club in your area. Most Rock Clubs are quite willing to assist local classroom teachers. Hope this helps. Kreigh Ann Swain wrote: > > Hello, > I teach second grade at Woodin Elementary in Northshore School District. > The school is located between Bothell and Woodinville off of 522. I have > students who are very interested in rocks. I have a rock collection and > would love to have a rockhound come to my class and help us identify the > rocks and perhaps talk to the class about rock collecting. Please call me > ASAP at (425) 402-5971. Thanks so much! Ann Swain > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Aug 31 17:09:42 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Aug 31 17:11:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] How can a non list member post to the list? Message-ID: <002201c6cd5a$f2dba730$0300a8c0@Notebook> All spam and non-member postings are filtered out. I delete them daily but allow pertinent messages to post. John ----- Original Message ----- From: Drew To: john@pandemoniumgraphics.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ADMIN Re: I'd like a rock hound to come to my second grade classplease How can a non list member post to the list? Just wondering! Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Aug 31 21:02:48 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Aug 31 21:02:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dugway UT trip report In-Reply-To: <20599520.1156739952856.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <20599520.1156739952856.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On 8/27/06, Cliff Jackson wrote: > > > The claim owner was very nice and has no problem with rock hounds coming in and collecting but we may lose the privilege. Someone had been there and did several thousand dollars damage to his equipment that had been left at the site. > > Unfortunately, that has happened at the sunstone mines in Plush, OR too. I don't know if the Dust Devil has had problems but I know the Spectrum had some vandalism a couple years ago. Chris and Jessica let my grandson dig for free -- and he could keep everything he found. Now he's 11 or 12 years old and has a bag of sunstones, memories, and a lot of respect for private property. I believe some kids just get bored and become destructive. When he gets bored he looks for rocks or pans for gold. He has started to learn a good hobby. Thanks to the Spectrum for their generosity. I know they helped one kid who hasn't always had all the nice things kids should have. Grant Johnston,, Chico, CA