From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Sun Jan 1 07:39:00 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Sun Jan 1 07:39:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics Message-ID: <43B7F794.7040307@tenforward.com> 1/1/2006 Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics By John Cornish j&gcornish@tenforward.com Hi Everyone, For over thirteen years now I've written a Field Collecting Journal which documents all of my mineral and fossil collecting trips during this period. Currently these adventures span four separate volumes with over 1000 pages of text, drawings, maps, etc. I've compiled my statistics for this last years collecting, 2005, and have included them following if you've an interest. For me, my journals are constant sources for reference and smiles and for this reason more then any other, I hope you'll consider starting a Field Collecting Journal of your own. As the days pass and our grasp of information becomes more encumbered, we risk losing the details of some of our most extraordinary collecting moments. For me, this was unacceptable. With this decision made, next followed several rounds of internal debate as to how to proceed, after all, I'd been collecting for some time now and what of those trips made prior to my beginning journaling? And so I pondered and all the while other collecting trips memories were lost. In frustration I decided I had to act. No more being wishy-washy, half here and half there, if I was going to start it was time to start. So that's exactly what I did, I started. I went out and purchased a nice looking, inexpensive Shaws Account Book from our local Stationary store which has 300 lined pages and is hard bound. To clarify my thoughts, my first entry introduced myself and explained my reasons for starting the Journal (some of which I've mentioned above). Following this I summed up some of the highlights from past collecting trips and then I was ready for new adventures and new entries. So, armed with all the excuse I needed, I headed out to collect! As I sit here in momentary reflection, a half smile flickering across my lips, that's exactly what I did too, I hit the hills and with a vengeance! As an example, as documented in 1996, that year I hit 113 localities! Just try remembering all of your trips from 1996 and you'll see the obvious benefit of starting your own Collecting Journal! But, for those of you who need additional reasons, I've come prepared with more positive arguments and the best of these is simply curation. We should all strive to curate our collections to some extent or another if we hope to have our collections attain any lasting relevancy. The documentation and histories of our specimens is of utmost import and we should strive for perfection and grace in this regard. Of course if your like me, perfection and grace are often replaced by incompetence and bumbling, still, I aspire! These are just some thoughts, which ever way you go and wherever your path may take you, I wish you fare adventuring each and all! Happy New Year, John 2005 Collecting Statistics 21 Trips total recorded 17 different places ---- 8 Minerals, 4 Fossils, 5 Events Most Frequented Locality ----- 11 trips (a fossil locality), 6th year in a row New Localities ---- 0 Shows I participated in --- 7 Territory Covered ---- Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, California, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah Longest Trip ---- 27 days Journal pages recorded --- 87 Crystal and Fossils papers wrote --- 13 In review of this last year, I find that I'm unwilling to look backwards so much as I'm wanting to look forward to the possibilities of this new year 2006. Twenty-one trips... I've got to get out more! Have a great year everyone, all the very best, John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sun Jan 1 07:47:54 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sun Jan 1 07:48:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt St Helens article Message-ID: <20060101154754.17114.qmail@web34602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> There's an interesting article in this morning's news about the nature of the current slow eruption at Mt St Helens: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051231/ap_on_sc/mount_st__helens_6 I'm pretty excited about getting to see an erupting volcano in HI next month! I've never been there, and when my wife attended a business meeting there several years ago, in was in an eruption "pause" so she didn't get to see it either. We plan to remedy that tragic situation asap! HAPPY NEW Year, everyone!!! I hope everyone on the list has a rewarding new year in 2006. JR in WV --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From llbullbull at hotmail.com Sun Jan 1 07:54:38 2006 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Sun Jan 1 07:54:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics In-Reply-To: <43B7F794.7040307@tenforward.com> Message-ID: Happy New Year: I second your thoughts on the journal... Yes, it can be tough to take the time but the rewards as outlined by John make it all worth while. There are so many memories that would be lost. So start those journals. Happy New Year, Larry Bull >From: John and Gloria Cornish >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics >Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 07:39:00 -0800 > > > > >1/1/2006 > >Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics > >By John Cornish >j&gcornish@tenforward.com > > > >Hi Everyone, > >For over thirteen years now I've written a Field Collecting Journal which >documents all of my mineral and fossil collecting trips during this period. >Currently these adventures span four separate volumes with over 1000 pages >of text, drawings, maps, etc. I've compiled my statistics for this last >years collecting, 2005, and have included them following if you've an >interest. For me, my journals are constant sources for reference and smiles >and for this reason more then any other, I hope you'll consider starting a >Field Collecting Journal of your own. > >As the days pass and our grasp of information becomes more encumbered, we >risk losing the details of some of our most extraordinary collecting >moments. For me, this was unacceptable. With this decision made, next >followed several rounds of internal debate as to how to proceed, after all, >I'd been collecting for some time now and what of those trips made prior to >my beginning journaling? And so I pondered and all the while other >collecting trips memories were lost. In frustration I decided I had to act. >No more being wishy-washy, half here and half there, if I was going to >start it was time to start. So that's exactly what I did, I started. I went >out and purchased a nice looking, inexpensive Shaws Account Book from our >local Stationary store which has 300 lined pages and is hard bound. To >clarify my thoughts, my first entry introduced myself and explained my >reasons for starting the Journal (some of which I've mentioned above). >Following this I summed up some of the highlights from past collecting >trips and then I was ready for new adventures and new entries. So, armed >with all the excuse I needed, I headed out to collect! > >As I sit here in momentary reflection, a half smile flickering across my >lips, that's exactly what I did too, I hit the hills and with a vengeance! >As an example, as documented in 1996, that year I hit 113 localities! Just >try remembering all of your trips from 1996 and you'll see the obvious >benefit of starting your own Collecting Journal! But, for those of you who >need additional reasons, I've come prepared with more positive arguments >and the best of these is simply curation. We should all strive to curate >our collections to some extent or another if we hope to have our >collections attain any lasting relevancy. The documentation and histories >of our specimens is of utmost import and we should strive for perfection >and grace in this regard. Of course if your like me, perfection and grace >are often replaced by incompetence and bumbling, still, I aspire! > >These are just some thoughts, which ever way you go and wherever your path >may take you, I wish you fare adventuring each and all! > >Happy New Year, > >John > > > 2005 Collecting Statistics > >21 Trips total recorded > >17 different places ---- 8 Minerals, 4 Fossils, 5 Events > >Most Frequented Locality ----- 11 trips (a fossil locality), 6th year in a >row > >New Localities ---- 0 > >Shows I participated in --- 7 > >Territory Covered ---- Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, California, >Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah > >Longest Trip ---- 27 days > >Journal pages recorded --- 87 > >Crystal and Fossils papers wrote --- 13 > >In review of this last year, I find that I'm unwilling to look backwards so >much as I'm wanting to look forward to the possibilities of this new year >2006. Twenty-one trips... I've got to get out more! Have a great year >everyone, all the very best, > >John > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement From info at wisdomofstones.com Sun Jan 1 12:01:36 2006 From: info at wisdomofstones.com (Wisdom of Stones) Date: Sun Jan 1 12:00:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics In-Reply-To: <43B7F794.7040307@tenforward.com> Message-ID: Thanks for yoru wonderful posting. For those of you who like to rockhound in the rain and/or find yourselves caught in the rain while trying to write, there's a wonderful product I found last year, waterproof writing paper. I've ordered spiral notebooks from them in the past and was looking at their web site this morning. They have geologic and environmental notebook that might I thought might be of interest to some of you - an interesting web site and lots of interesting products as well - http://www.riteintherain.com/boundbooks.html and scroll to bottom of page for geology and environmental books, and then click on link on right side of page that lets you view samples of the paper and forms they offer. Prosperous new year wishes to all, jennifer From lightedjewels at yahoo.com Sun Jan 1 13:10:50 2006 From: lightedjewels at yahoo.com (Michelle B.) Date: Sun Jan 1 13:10:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polish Amber? Message-ID: <20060101211050.61135.qmail@web36212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just acquired some wonderful raw amber and was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on cleaning and sculpting these beauties?! I have a dremel and am in the process of having my first grinding/polishing unit repaired!! I know SLOW speeds, how slow and what else?! Thank you, Michelle '>I'>http://www.ioffer.com/viewProfile.do?tab=SELLING&userID=eclecticisme&ref=true"> I have items you might like listed on iOffer! http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/95705806?aucview=0x70 I also have items listed on Yahoo! Here's a link to one of them, click on Seller's Other Items to check out all of them!! --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From silverado at frontiernet.net Sun Jan 1 13:29:43 2006 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (Gail) Date: Sun Jan 1 14:29:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] My wish References: <20060101021458.5519EE5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <000d01c60f1a$7db4e010$3fcb3243@gail7diqufk9xy> The same to you and all those on this list who are teaching me more and more about a wonderful way of life. ----- Original Message ----- From: "rain forest" To: Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 9:14 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] My wish > May your pack be full; may your hammer strike hard; may your shovel > unearth the best. > > My thanks to all who gave of themselves; who stopped to answer the > question over and over. > > May his goodness and mercy follow you all the days and pile your favorite > butt deep on the first try. > > Happy New Years rocknutz!! > > > David Bese > The Rainforest Hippie > Pt. Orchard, Wa. > > "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some > reason in madness." > "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and > use it for change." > "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of > energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > > Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number. -Lycos Yellow > Pages > > http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From lanny at lrream.com Sun Jan 1 14:49:19 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sun Jan 1 14:49:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20051231055757.034601d8@orerockon.com> References: <200512301732.jBUHW3W8032505@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20051231055757.034601d8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <08b6133efd34308237b6dfdd5e1e8e32@lrream.com> Hi Bob, I'm going to have to disagree with some of Tim's responses. On #1, lode claims and placer claims are treated differently in this aspect. A lode deposit is of minerals in place, a placer deposit is of minerals that have been weathered out and not in their place of formation, they are in the surficial deposits (alluvium , colluvium, etc.). This is separate in the laws. Thus, on a lode claim, the claimant does not have exclusive rights to a crystal that has weathered out of the rock and is loose in the soil and stream gravels, but does have rights to it on a placer claim. The placer claim laws do not differentiate between the various types of placer deposits as to a claimant's rights. If you locate a placer claim, all the locatable placer minerals belong to you; it doesn't matter if they are in the stream gravels, soil or talus below a big cliff. This brings us to number 2. No it does not matter what mineral the claim was staked for. Locating a claim gives the claimant the right to all of the minerals of that deposit type, all locatable minerals in place if on a lode claim, and all locatable placer type mineral deposits on a placer claim. Thus, if a lode claim is staked for copper, lead, silver and gold, and even if the claimant is only interested in the minerals carrying those metals, he still has legal claim to any quartz crystals or other locatable minerals in place on the claim. If he staked the claim for gold and has spent 50 years prospecting it, and you come along and find a vein of amethyst 200 feet from his workings (still within the boundaries of the claim), those amethyst crystals are still his. It doesn't matter that he didn't see them, saw them and didn't care or just hadn't found them yet. Although, any amethyst crystals weathered out and loose in the soil on the hillside below the amethyst vein are placer minerals, and not in the claimant's rights. You can legally pick, them up. Although, you may want to watch out for the mining claimant; he may not have legal claim to them, but they are on his claim, and I've seen those rifles hanging in the racks in the cab of their trucks... you may want to ask permission to do some rockhounding on an active claim. As to the liability; go with what Tim wrote. So far, I don't believe anyone has been held liable for natural hazards on lands covered by mining claims. If the claim covers a cliff and you fall of the cliff, then that's your tough luck. Let's hope it stays that way. Regards, Lanny On Dec 31, 2005, at 6:21 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > The BLM, in their infinite wisdom, took down the relevant pages and > they are not back up (when they are, all the answers are located on > the WA/OR BLM's mining claim information site). > > At 09:30 AM 12/30/2005, you wrote: >> Hi list, >> >> Does anyone have a list of laws that pertain to mining claims in the >> US? Is >> there such a list on the web? Here are some examples of questions I >> have: >> >> 1. On a lode claim, if someone is walking along and sees a huge >> crystal >> sitting on the ground surface of the claim, can that person legally >> pick it >> up and take it home? A friend of mine told me that this was legal, >> as long >> as the person doesn't dig up the crystal. Does this differ from a >> placer >> claim? > No, lode and placer claims are treated identically. Surface material > is treated as "waste" in mining law, so anyone can surface pick any > claim. As are tailings. No one can dig a teaspoonful of virgin dirt > without the claimant''s permission. > >> 2. Does it matter what the mineral is? If a claim owner is digging >> for gold >> or silver, but someone finds a tourmaline crystal (on the surface? or >> by >> digging?), can the person legally take it? Is this different for >> placer vs. >> lode claims? > No, yes, and no. > >> 3. If a person is walking across a mining claim and stumbles over a >> rock and >> breaks his leg, does he have a good chance of winning a lawsuit >> against the >> claim holder? Even if the rock has been sitting there for thousands >> of >> years and hasn't been disturbed by the claim holder, the person could >> say >> whatever he wants. He could say he stepped into a hole that was >> obviously >> from a previous dig (even if the claim holder performed reclamation >> on that >> hole and it was only 6 inches deep when the so-called accident >> occurred). >> Since a claim holder can't prevent people or animals from >> walking/hunting/hiking/fishing/etc on his claim, how does he prevent >> such >> lawsuits? Does he have to get (i.e. "pay for") liability insurance >> and hope >> nobody goes onto his claim? Should a claim holder be responsible for >> liabilities since he doesn't actually own the land? Shouldn't anyone >> going >> onto this land (or ANY land, for that matter) be responsible for not >> tripping/falling/etc? Yeah, I know, this is America, the land of the >> free... and stupid morons who can sue for whatever they want. > Who knows, and I am sure this has been done. You answered your own > question. Idiots will sue. Insurance such as you describe is available > and incredibly expensive. Ask the Richardson's; they had insurance > until an idiot broke their leg & sued. They lost & they are now > uninsurable. I.e. they can't buy liability insurance for any price. > >> Does anyone have a set of rules for a mining claim if the claim >> holder wants >> to allow a club to dig on the claim? > > That is up to the claimant; the MHRC has or has had the usual > rockhound etiquette rules posted on our claims (they are torn down > almost as soon as we post them) and clubs that dig with permission > have to follow some USFS specific rules about overhangs, safety > barriers and bench heights. Liability insurance for the club doing the > digging is essential these days, and can be had for under $500/year. > >> Are there any other laws that all of you can think of? As you can >> see, I'm >> very interested in mining claim laws/rules/info right now. :-) >> >> Regards, >> >> Bob > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Jan 1 15:09:26 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Jan 1 15:09:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inclusions In-Reply-To: <43B67086.4040200@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <200601012309.k01N9QIL017456@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Thanks Don and Mark! www.smorf.nl was the one I was thinking of. Mark, can you create a crystal of a octahedron and then "knock off" the 6 corners to make faces? That would look a lot like my inclusion. ;-) Happy New Year! Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Mark Holtkamp Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:51 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inclusions Or try www.smorf.nl regards, Mark donhalterman@verizon.net wrote: > Does anyone know of a website that has 3D pictures of crystal habits? > > > Hi, > > This is one of the more trustworthy and venerable sites on the Internet and has a lot of 3D rotatable crystal drawings: > > http://www.webmineral.com/ > > The drawings were made using JCrystal, and JCrystal includes some of these drawings with its package. I stumbled upon JCrystal while searching for a Wulff net plotting program. Sadly, the Wulff net feature in JCrystal isn't relevant to what I'm doing, but I was so impressed with all the features that I bought it anyway. It is inexpensive and runs in Java. I think it will do what you want to do--search for it and check out the extensive demo pages. > > Good luck, > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Jan 1 15:11:28 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Jan 1 15:11:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US In-Reply-To: <000701c60e43$c5cbbfe0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <200601012311.k01NBRIL018387@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi Jay, Unfortunately, most of that website is devoted to placer claims and doesn't say much about lode claims. But thanks anyway! Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:53 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US Here is a site that answers most of your questions: http://www.homestead.com/theclaimpost/BUYERSGUIDE.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:30 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US > Hi list, > > Does anyone have a list of laws that pertain to mining claims in the US? Is > there such a list on the web? Here are some examples of questions I have: > > 1. On a lode claim, if someone is walking along and sees a huge crystal > sitting on the ground surface of the claim, can that person legally pick it > up and take it home? A friend of mine told me that this was legal, as long > as the person doesn't dig up the crystal. Does this differ from a placer > claim? > > 2. Does it matter what the mineral is? If a claim owner is digging for gold > or silver, but someone finds a tourmaline crystal (on the surface? or by > digging?), can the person legally take it? Is this different for placer vs. > lode claims? > > 3. If a person is walking across a mining claim and stumbles over a rock and > breaks his leg, does he have a good chance of winning a lawsuit against the > claim holder? Even if the rock has been sitting there for thousands of > years and hasn't been disturbed by the claim holder, the person could say > whatever he wants. He could say he stepped into a hole that was obviously > from a previous dig (even if the claim holder performed reclamation on that > hole and it was only 6 inches deep when the so-called accident occurred). > Since a claim holder can't prevent people or animals from > walking/hunting/hiking/fishing/etc on his claim, how does he prevent such > lawsuits? Does he have to get (i.e. "pay for") liability insurance and hope > nobody goes onto his claim? Should a claim holder be responsible for > liabilities since he doesn't actually own the land? Shouldn't anyone going > onto this land (or ANY land, for that matter) be responsible for not > tripping/falling/etc? Yeah, I know, this is America, the land of the > free... and stupid morons who can sue for whatever they want. > > Does anyone have a set of rules for a mining claim if the claim holder wants > to allow a club to dig on the claim? > > Are there any other laws that all of you can think of? As you can see, I'm > very interested in mining claim laws/rules/info right now. :-) > > Regards, > > Bob > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Jan 1 15:16:22 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Jan 1 15:16:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US In-Reply-To: <08b6133efd34308237b6dfdd5e1e8e32@lrream.com> Message-ID: <200601012316.k01NGMIL021274@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi Lanny and Tim, Thanks for the info. I thought there were differences between lode and placer claims. I got some pamphlets and documents from the BLM office in Golden, Colorado, but they don't go into all of the nitty-gritty details that I need, so I'll go with what you guys say until I find out anything different from others in my club (or other clubs around here) or others here on the list. I might call the BLM to see if they can answer any questions directly over the phone, but I'm sure they will try to stay away from the liability issues. :-) Thanks and have a great new year! Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lanny Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 3:49 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US Hi Bob, I'm going to have to disagree with some of Tim's responses. On #1, lode claims and placer claims are treated differently in this aspect. A lode deposit is of minerals in place, a placer deposit is of minerals that have been weathered out and not in their place of formation, they are in the surficial deposits (alluvium , colluvium, etc.). This is separate in the laws. Thus, on a lode claim, the claimant does not have exclusive rights to a crystal that has weathered out of the rock and is loose in the soil and stream gravels, but does have rights to it on a placer claim. The placer claim laws do not differentiate between the various types of placer deposits as to a claimant's rights. If you locate a placer claim, all the locatable placer minerals belong to you; it doesn't matter if they are in the stream gravels, soil or talus below a big cliff. This brings us to number 2. No it does not matter what mineral the claim was staked for. Locating a claim gives the claimant the right to all of the minerals of that deposit type, all locatable minerals in place if on a lode claim, and all locatable placer type mineral deposits on a placer claim. Thus, if a lode claim is staked for copper, lead, silver and gold, and even if the claimant is only interested in the minerals carrying those metals, he still has legal claim to any quartz crystals or other locatable minerals in place on the claim. If he staked the claim for gold and has spent 50 years prospecting it, and you come along and find a vein of amethyst 200 feet from his workings (still within the boundaries of the claim), those amethyst crystals are still his. It doesn't matter that he didn't see them, saw them and didn't care or just hadn't found them yet. Although, any amethyst crystals weathered out and loose in the soil on the hillside below the amethyst vein are placer minerals, and not in the claimant's rights. You can legally pick, them up. Although, you may want to watch out for the mining claimant; he may not have legal claim to them, but they are on his claim, and I've seen those rifles hanging in the racks in the cab of their trucks... you may want to ask permission to do some rockhounding on an active claim. As to the liability; go with what Tim wrote. So far, I don't believe anyone has been held liable for natural hazards on lands covered by mining claims. If the claim covers a cliff and you fall of the cliff, then that's your tough luck. Let's hope it stays that way. Regards, Lanny On Dec 31, 2005, at 6:21 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > The BLM, in their infinite wisdom, took down the relevant pages and > they are not back up (when they are, all the answers are located on > the WA/OR BLM's mining claim information site). > > At 09:30 AM 12/30/2005, you wrote: >> Hi list, >> >> Does anyone have a list of laws that pertain to mining claims in the >> US? Is >> there such a list on the web? Here are some examples of questions I >> have: >> >> 1. On a lode claim, if someone is walking along and sees a huge >> crystal >> sitting on the ground surface of the claim, can that person legally >> pick it >> up and take it home? A friend of mine told me that this was legal, >> as long >> as the person doesn't dig up the crystal. Does this differ from a >> placer >> claim? > No, lode and placer claims are treated identically. Surface material > is treated as "waste" in mining law, so anyone can surface pick any > claim. As are tailings. No one can dig a teaspoonful of virgin dirt > without the claimant''s permission. > >> 2. Does it matter what the mineral is? If a claim owner is digging >> for gold >> or silver, but someone finds a tourmaline crystal (on the surface? or >> by >> digging?), can the person legally take it? Is this different for >> placer vs. >> lode claims? > No, yes, and no. > >> 3. If a person is walking across a mining claim and stumbles over a >> rock and >> breaks his leg, does he have a good chance of winning a lawsuit >> against the >> claim holder? Even if the rock has been sitting there for thousands >> of >> years and hasn't been disturbed by the claim holder, the person could >> say >> whatever he wants. He could say he stepped into a hole that was >> obviously >> from a previous dig (even if the claim holder performed reclamation >> on that >> hole and it was only 6 inches deep when the so-called accident >> occurred). >> Since a claim holder can't prevent people or animals from >> walking/hunting/hiking/fishing/etc on his claim, how does he prevent >> such >> lawsuits? Does he have to get (i.e. "pay for") liability insurance >> and hope >> nobody goes onto his claim? Should a claim holder be responsible for >> liabilities since he doesn't actually own the land? Shouldn't anyone >> going >> onto this land (or ANY land, for that matter) be responsible for not >> tripping/falling/etc? Yeah, I know, this is America, the land of the >> free... and stupid morons who can sue for whatever they want. > Who knows, and I am sure this has been done. You answered your own > question. Idiots will sue. Insurance such as you describe is available > and incredibly expensive. Ask the Richardson's; they had insurance > until an idiot broke their leg & sued. They lost & they are now > uninsurable. I.e. they can't buy liability insurance for any price. > >> Does anyone have a set of rules for a mining claim if the claim >> holder wants >> to allow a club to dig on the claim? > > That is up to the claimant; the MHRC has or has had the usual > rockhound etiquette rules posted on our claims (they are torn down > almost as soon as we post them) and clubs that dig with permission > have to follow some USFS specific rules about overhangs, safety > barriers and bench heights. Liability insurance for the club doing the > digging is essential these days, and can be had for under $500/year. > >> Are there any other laws that all of you can think of? As you can >> see, I'm >> very interested in mining claim laws/rules/info right now. :-) >> >> Regards, >> >> Bob > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From agesilaus at gmail.com Sun Jan 1 16:26:38 2006 From: agesilaus at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Jan 1 16:26:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: General Mining Law In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The following search terms: lode claims "general mining law" Pull up a lot of hits from google including the actual law. Maybe this is what you are looking for. BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Sun Jan 1 17:00:56 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Jan 1 17:01:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US In-Reply-To: <08b6133efd34308237b6dfdd5e1e8e32@lrream.com> References: <200512301732.jBUHW3W8032505@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20051231055757.034601d8@orerockon.com> <08b6133efd34308237b6dfdd5e1e8e32@lrream.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060101164107.0368b3c0@orerockon.com> Lanny, it is not so in Washington and Oregon. Each BLM region has their own rules, and our regional rules are apparently different than yours. As a claimant (and a lessee), the MHRC has asked these questions, and received different answers than you did, apparently. The only distinction the WA/OR BLM makes between lode and placer claims is in the shape of the claim. I know, this means they do not understand the mining laws, but it is not the claimant's place to interpret the laws. Therefore, in OR and WA, you can "surface pick" gold off of a gold placer, not that it would do you any good, since you can't pan. They do make a distinction between what you can do on a claim on acquired land (which is then technically a mineral lease, not a claim) and on land originally ceded to the feds. You are not free to surface pick anything off of a mineral lease, but how anyone can tell what is a lease and what is a claim without going to the BLM office is something they couldn't answer for the MHRC. Don't get me started on the definition of a locatable mineral. That changes with every person we talk to at the BLM. Apparently obsidian, which was not locatable last time we talked to the Prineville District, has now become locatable, since there are now "claims" within the Glass Buttes Public Rockhounding Area (yeah, I know, that takes the "Public" out of it, doesn't it?). Although I have not heard from the BLM if these are legal claims, there are individuals posting and chasing people off of them (the fire obsidian pits are one area under "claim" at the present). And the BLM's LR2000 online claim information system is down and has been for at least a year now so I can't even verify the authenticity of these claims. Picture jasper is locatable, but agate and common jasper aren't (again, it depends on who you talk to; our lease of the Lily Pad jasper pit on acquired land fell through because it is not "marketable" but no one else is allowed to lease it as long as our application is on file; go figure). Thundereggs are, quartz crystals aren't, but rhodonite is. The list goes on. At 02:49 PM 1/1/2006, you wrote: >Hi Bob, > >I'm going to have to disagree with some of Tim's responses. On #1, >lode claims and placer claims are treated differently in this >aspect. A lode deposit is of minerals in place, a placer deposit is >of minerals that have been weathered out and not in their place of >formation, they are in the surficial deposits (alluvium , colluvium, >etc.). This is separate in the laws. Thus, on a lode claim, the >claimant does not have exclusive rights to a crystal that has >weathered out of the rock and is loose in the soil and stream >gravels, but does have rights to it on a placer claim. The placer >claim laws do not differentiate between the various types of placer >deposits as to a claimant's rights. If you locate a placer claim, >all the locatable placer minerals belong to you; it doesn't matter >if they are in the stream gravels, soil or talus below a big cliff. > >This brings us to number 2. No it does not matter what mineral the >claim was staked for. Locating a claim gives the claimant the right >to all of the minerals of that deposit type, all locatable minerals >in place if on a lode claim, and all locatable placer type mineral >deposits on a placer claim. > >Thus, if a lode claim is staked for copper, lead, silver and gold, >and even if the claimant is only interested in the minerals carrying >those metals, he still has legal claim to any quartz crystals or >other locatable minerals in place on the claim. If he staked the >claim for gold and has spent 50 years prospecting it, and you come >along and find a vein of amethyst 200 feet from his workings (still >within the boundaries of the claim), those amethyst crystals are >still his. It doesn't matter that he didn't see them, saw them and >didn't care or just hadn't found them yet. Although, any amethyst >crystals weathered out and loose in the soil on the hillside below >the amethyst vein are placer minerals, and not in the claimant's >rights. You can legally pick, them up. Although, you may want to >watch out for the mining claimant; he may not have legal claim to >them, but they are on his claim, and I've seen those rifles hanging >in the racks in the cab of their trucks... you may want to ask >permission to do some rockhounding on an active claim. > >As to the liability; go with what Tim wrote. So far, I don't believe >anyone has been held liable for natural hazards on lands covered by >mining claims. If the claim covers a cliff and you fall of the >cliff, then that's your tough luck. Let's hope it stays that way. > >Regards, > >Lanny Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Sun Jan 1 17:04:41 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Jan 1 17:04:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fwd: General Mining Law In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060101170141.03693360@orerockon.com> Unfortunately, it's the interpretation, not the law, which counts. Witness the "evictions" of miners from legal placer and lode claims that have taken place in CA the past few years. According to the Mining Law, the claimants have every right to occupy the claims if they are actively developing them. According to some CA USFS and BLM policy wonks, they don't have that right. At 04:26 PM 1/1/2006, you wrote: > The following search terms: > >lode claims "general mining law" > >Pull up a lot of hits from google including the actual law. Maybe this is >what you are looking for. > >BK Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jan 1 17:22:31 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jan 1 17:22:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inclusions References: <200601012309.k01N9QIL017456@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <005e01c60f3b$00ce6050$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Sounds like a cubo-octahedron. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 6:09 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Inclusions > Thanks Don and Mark! www.smorf.nl was the one I was thinking of. Mark, > can > you create a crystal of a octahedron and then "knock off" the 6 corners to > make faces? That would look a lot like my inclusion. ;-) > > Happy New Year! > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Mark Holtkamp > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:51 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inclusions > > Or try www.smorf.nl > > regards, Mark > > > donhalterman@verizon.net wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a website that has 3D pictures of crystal habits? >> >> >> Hi, >> >> This is one of the more trustworthy and venerable sites on the Internet > and has a lot of 3D rotatable crystal drawings: >> >> http://www.webmineral.com/ >> >> The drawings were made using JCrystal, and JCrystal includes some of >> these > drawings with its package. I stumbled upon JCrystal while searching for a > Wulff net plotting program. Sadly, the Wulff net feature in JCrystal > isn't > relevant to what I'm doing, but I was so impressed with all the features > that I bought it anyway. It is inexpensive and runs in Java. I think it > will do what you want to do--search for it and check out the extensive > demo > pages. >> >> Good luck, >> Don >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Sun Jan 1 18:05:30 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sun Jan 1 18:03:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US References: <200512301732.jBUHW3W8032505@bubbleator.drizzle.com><7.0.0.16.2.20051231055757.034601d8@orerockon.com><08b6133efd34308237b6dfdd5e1e8e32@lrream.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060101164107.0368b3c0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <001601c60f41$02c9ac60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Tim does that mean the claims on Graveyard Point agates are not valid? My brother belonged to a club that had valid claims on a quartz crystal site in Washington and were kept off it by a gun toting crazy and no one, sheriff or Forest Service would do anything about it. If you know the claimant it is a good idea to ask if you can surface pick. Most claimants, I am talking non-patented claims here, will agree to allowing a club that is insured to surface collect, since they are usually not there to stop anyone and they are aware of the ambiguity concerning surfacing collecting. Never dig in any claim without permission. If there are hazards there not of the claimants creation in mining, I doubt they are liable for any accidents. If you fall down a shaft or pit they created that may be a different matter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US > Lanny, it is not so in Washington and Oregon. Each BLM region has > their own rules, and our regional rules are apparently different than > yours. As a claimant (and a lessee), the MHRC has asked these > questions, and received different answers than you did, apparently. > The only distinction the WA/OR BLM makes between lode and placer > claims is in the shape of the claim. I know, this means they do not > understand the mining laws, but it is not the claimant's place to > interpret the laws. Therefore, in OR and WA, you can "surface pick" > gold off of a gold placer, not that it would do you any good, since > you can't pan. They do make a distinction between what you can do on > a claim on acquired land (which is then technically a mineral lease, > not a claim) and on land originally ceded to the feds. You are not > free to surface pick anything off of a mineral lease, but how anyone > can tell what is a lease and what is a claim without going to the BLM > office is something they couldn't answer for the MHRC. > > Don't get me started on the definition of a locatable mineral. That > changes with every person we talk to at the BLM. Apparently obsidian, > which was not locatable last time we talked to the Prineville > District, has now become locatable, since there are now "claims" > within the Glass Buttes Public Rockhounding Area (yeah, I know, that > takes the "Public" out of it, doesn't it?). Although I have not heard > from the BLM if these are legal claims, there are individuals posting > and chasing people off of them (the fire obsidian pits are one area > under "claim" at the present). And the BLM's LR2000 online claim > information system is down and has been for at least a year now so I > can't even verify the authenticity of these claims. Picture jasper is > locatable, but agate and common jasper aren't (again, it depends on > who you talk to; our lease of the Lily Pad jasper pit on acquired > land fell through because it is not "marketable" but no one else is > allowed to lease it as long as our application is on file; go > figure). Thundereggs are, quartz crystals aren't, but rhodonite is. > The list goes on. > > At 02:49 PM 1/1/2006, you wrote: > >Hi Bob, > > > >I'm going to have to disagree with some of Tim's responses. On #1, > >lode claims and placer claims are treated differently in this > >aspect. A lode deposit is of minerals in place, a placer deposit is > >of minerals that have been weathered out and not in their place of > >formation, they are in the surficial deposits (alluvium , colluvium, > >etc.). This is separate in the laws. Thus, on a lode claim, the > >claimant does not have exclusive rights to a crystal that has > >weathered out of the rock and is loose in the soil and stream > >gravels, but does have rights to it on a placer claim. The placer > >claim laws do not differentiate between the various types of placer > >deposits as to a claimant's rights. If you locate a placer claim, > >all the locatable placer minerals belong to you; it doesn't matter > >if they are in the stream gravels, soil or talus below a big cliff. > > > >This brings us to number 2. No it does not matter what mineral the > >claim was staked for. Locating a claim gives the claimant the right > >to all of the minerals of that deposit type, all locatable minerals > >in place if on a lode claim, and all locatable placer type mineral > >deposits on a placer claim. > > > >Thus, if a lode claim is staked for copper, lead, silver and gold, > >and even if the claimant is only interested in the minerals carrying > >those metals, he still has legal claim to any quartz crystals or > >other locatable minerals in place on the claim. If he staked the > >claim for gold and has spent 50 years prospecting it, and you come > >along and find a vein of amethyst 200 feet from his workings (still > >within the boundaries of the claim), those amethyst crystals are > >still his. It doesn't matter that he didn't see them, saw them and > >didn't care or just hadn't found them yet. Although, any amethyst > >crystals weathered out and loose in the soil on the hillside below > >the amethyst vein are placer minerals, and not in the claimant's > >rights. You can legally pick, them up. Although, you may want to > >watch out for the mining claimant; he may not have legal claim to > >them, but they are on his claim, and I've seen those rifles hanging > >in the racks in the cab of their trucks... you may want to ask > >permission to do some rockhounding on an active claim. > > > >As to the liability; go with what Tim wrote. So far, I don't believe > >anyone has been held liable for natural hazards on lands covered by > >mining claims. If the claim covers a cliff and you fall of the > >cliff, then that's your tough luck. Let's hope it stays that way. > > > >Regards, > > > >Lanny > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lightedjewels at yahoo.com Sun Jan 1 21:04:31 2006 From: lightedjewels at yahoo.com (Michelle B.) Date: Sun Jan 1 21:04:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Polish Amber - Found it! Message-ID: <20060102050431.71208.qmail@web36213.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Finally found the info. I have been looking for, http://www.ambericawest.com/working.html Thanks for being there anyway, lol! Michelle '>I'>http://www.ioffer.com/viewProfile.do?tab=SELLING&userID=eclecticisme&ref=true"> I have items you might like listed on iOffer! http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/95705806?aucview=0x70 I also have items listed on Yahoo! Here's a link to one of them, click on Seller's Other Items to check out all of them!! --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Mon Jan 2 02:32:41 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Jan 2 02:32:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US In-Reply-To: <001601c60f41$02c9ac60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <200512301732.jBUHW3W8032505@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20051231055757.034601d8@orerockon.com> <08b6133efd34308237b6dfdd5e1e8e32@lrream.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060101164107.0368b3c0@orerockon.com> <001601c60f41$02c9ac60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060102022944.036866b8@orerockon.com> All current, legal claims are valid. The MHRC tried to establish a new claim for club field trips over the ridge from the Regency Rose claim at Graveyard Point and was told that agate was no longer locatable by the Vale District BLM office. I am sure that subsequent claims were allowed there (one was apparently granted about 100 feet from where the club tried to establish a claim). Like I said, it depends on who you talk to. At 06:05 PM 1/1/2006, you wrote: >Tim does that mean the claims on Graveyard Point agates are not valid? My >brother belonged to a club that had valid claims on a quartz crystal site in >Washington and were kept off it by a gun toting crazy and no one, sheriff or >Forest Service would do anything about it. > >If you know the claimant it is a good idea to ask if you can surface pick. >Most claimants, I am talking non-patented claims here, will agree to >allowing a club that is insured to surface collect, since they are usually >not there to stop anyone and they are aware of the ambiguity concerning >surfacing collecting. Never dig in any claim without permission. If there >are hazards there not of the claimants creation in mining, I doubt they are >liable for any accidents. If you fall down a shaft or pit they created that >may be a different matter. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tim Fisher" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 5:00 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the >US > > > > Lanny, it is not so in Washington and Oregon. Each BLM region has > > their own rules, and our regional rules are apparently different than > > yours. As a claimant (and a lessee), the MHRC has asked these > > questions, and received different answers than you did, apparently. > > The only distinction the WA/OR BLM makes between lode and placer > > claims is in the shape of the claim. I know, this means they do not > > understand the mining laws, but it is not the claimant's place to > > interpret the laws. Therefore, in OR and WA, you can "surface pick" > > gold off of a gold placer, not that it would do you any good, since > > you can't pan. They do make a distinction between what you can do on > > a claim on acquired land (which is then technically a mineral lease, > > not a claim) and on land originally ceded to the feds. You are not > > free to surface pick anything off of a mineral lease, but how anyone > > can tell what is a lease and what is a claim without going to the BLM > > office is something they couldn't answer for the MHRC. > > > > Don't get me started on the definition of a locatable mineral. That > > changes with every person we talk to at the BLM. Apparently obsidian, > > which was not locatable last time we talked to the Prineville > > District, has now become locatable, since there are now "claims" > > within the Glass Buttes Public Rockhounding Area (yeah, I know, that > > takes the "Public" out of it, doesn't it?). Although I have not heard > > from the BLM if these are legal claims, there are individuals posting > > and chasing people off of them (the fire obsidian pits are one area > > under "claim" at the present). And the BLM's LR2000 online claim > > information system is down and has been for at least a year now so I > > can't even verify the authenticity of these claims. Picture jasper is > > locatable, but agate and common jasper aren't (again, it depends on > > who you talk to; our lease of the Lily Pad jasper pit on acquired > > land fell through because it is not "marketable" but no one else is > > allowed to lease it as long as our application is on file; go > > figure). Thundereggs are, quartz crystals aren't, but rhodonite is. > > The list goes on. > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Jan 2 07:03:33 2006 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 2 07:08:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polish Amber? In-Reply-To: <20060101211050.61135.qmail@web36212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060101211050.61135.qmail@web36212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C7DDC4D5BA55D5-9F8-202CC@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> Hi Michelle, From past experience I would not use the Dremal tool on amber, it grazes the specimens and makes Copal melt. Try using wet sandpaper, it does a great job and use white toothpaste to polish. Courtesy Gene, fossilnut, if you need good directions let me know and I'll forward the instructions to you. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Michelle B. To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:10:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rockhounds] Polish Amber? Just acquired some wonderful raw amber and was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on cleaning and sculpting these beauties?! I have a dremel and am in the process of having my first grinding/polishing unit repaired!! I know SLOW speeds, how slow and what else?! Thank you, Michelle '>I'>http://www.ioffer.com/viewProfile.do?tab=SELLING&userID=eclecticisme&ref=true"> I have items you might like listed on iOffer! http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/95705806?aucview=0x70 I also have items listed on Yahoo! Here's a link to one of them, click on Seller's Other Items to check out all of them!! --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 2 08:06:31 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Jan 2 08:06:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt St Helens article In-Reply-To: <20060101154754.17114.qmail@web34602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060102160631.90908.qmail@web34315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Be sure to bring good hiking boots with you, and when you go to the volcano, carry water. When we were there last May, it was about a 3 mile hike across the lava field from the furthest point you can take the car to the actual lava flow. Jim Daly > > I'm pretty excited about getting to see an erupting > volcano in HI next month! I've never been there, > and when my wife attended a business meeting there > several years ago, in was in an eruption "pause" so > she didn't get to see it either. > __________________________________ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ From gene at fossilnut.com Mon Jan 2 08:06:24 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Mon Jan 2 08:06:53 2006 Subject: *** Spam *** Re: [Rockhounds] Polish Amber? References: <20060101211050.61135.qmail@web36212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8C7DDC4D5BA55D5-9F8-202CC@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003401c60fb6$7b354130$6400a8c0@hppav> Yes, toothpaste works. I prefer to use the cheapest I can get,... the potential culprits are peroxides which are good for mouth hygiene, bad for amber. This can be rinsed off so be sure to rinse thoroughly as the last step. I use wet and dry sandpaper. I prefer to get it at an auto shop like Pep Boys (for those in the US) since you can get a pack that runs from 80 grit on down to 1500 grit in progressive steps. Use the paper wet and rinse well between grits. I've done a lot of New Jersey amber by this method. for all my friends on the list I am leaving AOL. I'm up and running as gene@fossilnut.com. fossilnut.com is my own domain. So those of you who I know, you can change your address books. Gene Hartstein (Fossilnut) Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:03 AM Subject: *** Spam *** Re: [Rockhounds] Polish Amber? > > Hi Michelle, > From past experience I would not use the Dremal tool on amber, it grazes > the specimens and makes Copal melt. Try using wet sandpaper, it does a > great job and use white toothpaste to polish. Courtesy Gene, fossilnut, if > you need good directions let me know and I'll forward the instructions to > you. > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michelle B. > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:10:50 -0800 (PST) > Subject: [Rockhounds] Polish Amber? > > > Just acquired some wonderful raw amber and was wondering if anyone > could give me some tips on cleaning and sculpting these beauties?! I have > a > dremel and am in the process of having my first grinding/polishing unit > repaired!! I know SLOW speeds, how slow and what else?! > Thank you, Michelle > > > > > '>I'>http://www.ioffer.com/viewProfile.do?tab=SELLING&userID=eclecticisme&ref=true"> > I have items you might like listed on iOffer! > > > > > > > > > http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/95705806?aucview=0x70 > I also have items listed on Yahoo! > Here's a link to one of them, click on Seller's Other Items to check out > all > of them!! > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Jan 2 08:29:41 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Jan 2 08:31:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43B954F5.5030206@tenforward.com> Hi Larry and Jennifer, Thanks for taking the time to write, I appreciate it. With over 300 people on this list, I'd hoped some others may contribute to this thread, but maybe field collecting is falling to the wayside and folks don't get out any more. If you do collect, please consider sharing your experiences. As a field collector, I know I'd sure enjoy it! All the very best, John Lawrence Bull wrote: > Happy New Year: > > I second your thoughts on the journal... > > Yes, it can be tough to take the time but the rewards as outlined by > John make it all worth while. > > There are so many memories that would be lost. So start those journals. > > Happy New Year, > > Larry Bull > > > > >> From: John and Gloria Cornish >> Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End >> Statistics >> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 07:39:00 -0800 >> >> >> >> >> 1/1/2006 >> >> Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics >> >> By John Cornish >> j&gcornish@tenforward.com >> >> >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> For over thirteen years now I've written a Field Collecting Journal >> which documents all of my mineral and fossil collecting trips during >> this period. Currently these adventures span four separate volumes >> with over 1000 pages of text, drawings, maps, etc. I've compiled my >> statistics for this last years collecting, 2005, and have included >> them following if you've an interest. For me, my journals are >> constant sources for reference and smiles and for this reason more >> then any other, I hope you'll consider starting a Field Collecting >> Journal of your own. >> >> As the days pass and our grasp of information becomes more >> encumbered, we risk losing the details of some of our most >> extraordinary collecting moments. For me, this was unacceptable. With >> this decision made, next followed several rounds of internal debate >> as to how to proceed, after all, I'd been collecting for some time >> now and what of those trips made prior to my beginning journaling? >> And so I pondered and all the while other collecting trips memories >> were lost. In frustration I decided I had to act. No more being >> wishy-washy, half here and half there, if I was going to start it was >> time to start. So that's exactly what I did, I started. I went out >> and purchased a nice looking, inexpensive Shaws Account Book from our >> local Stationary store which has 300 lined pages and is hard bound. >> To clarify my thoughts, my first entry introduced myself and >> explained my reasons for starting the Journal (some of which I've >> mentioned above). Following this I summed up some of the highlights >> from past collecting trips and then I was ready for new adventures >> and new entries. So, armed with all the excuse I needed, I headed out >> to collect! >> >> As I sit here in momentary reflection, a half smile flickering across >> my lips, that's exactly what I did too, I hit the hills and with a >> vengeance! As an example, as documented in 1996, that year I hit 113 >> localities! Just try remembering all of your trips from 1996 and >> you'll see the obvious benefit of starting your own Collecting >> Journal! But, for those of you who need additional reasons, I've come >> prepared with more positive arguments and the best of these is simply >> curation. We should all strive to curate our collections to some >> extent or another if we hope to have our collections attain any >> lasting relevancy. The documentation and histories of our specimens >> is of utmost import and we should strive for perfection and grace in >> this regard. Of course if your like me, perfection and grace are >> often replaced by incompetence and bumbling, still, I aspire! >> >> These are just some thoughts, which ever way you go and wherever your >> path may take you, I wish you fare adventuring each and all! >> >> Happy New Year, >> >> John >> >> >> 2005 Collecting Statistics >> >> 21 Trips total recorded >> >> 17 different places ---- 8 Minerals, 4 Fossils, 5 Events >> >> Most Frequented Locality ----- 11 trips (a fossil locality), 6th >> year in a row >> >> New Localities ---- 0 >> >> Shows I participated in --- 7 >> >> Territory Covered ---- Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, >> California, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah >> >> Longest Trip ---- 27 days >> >> Journal pages recorded --- 87 >> >> Crystal and Fossils papers wrote --- 13 >> >> In review of this last year, I find that I'm unwilling to look >> backwards so much as I'm wanting to look forward to the possibilities >> of this new year 2006. Twenty-one trips... I've got to get out more! >> Have a great year everyone, all the very best, >> >> John >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _________________________________________________________________ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how > to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From rockhounds at adelphia.net Mon Jan 2 10:46:55 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Mon Jan 2 10:44:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics In-Reply-To: <43B954F5.5030206@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <000201c60fcc$e828c990$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> John My wife and I have been inspired by your stories and vow to write about ours also. We want to pass on the fun to others and help us to remember the fact as they were. The site for water proof paper will make it easier to write on the wet coast we love to visit. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John and Gloria Cornish Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 8:30 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics Hi Larry and Jennifer, Thanks for taking the time to write, I appreciate it. With over 300 people on this list, I'd hoped some others may contribute to this thread, but maybe field collecting is falling to the wayside and folks don't get out any more. If you do collect, please consider sharing your experiences. As a field collector, I know I'd sure enjoy it! All the very best, John Lawrence Bull wrote: > Happy New Year: > > I second your thoughts on the journal... > > Yes, it can be tough to take the time but the rewards as outlined by > John make it all worth while. > > There are so many memories that would be lost. So start those > journals. > > Happy New Year, > > Larry Bull > > > > >> From: John and Gloria Cornish >> Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End >> Statistics >> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 07:39:00 -0800 >> >> >> >> >> 1/1/2006 >> >> Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics >> >> By John Cornish >> j&gcornish@tenforward.com >> >> >> >> Hi Everyone, >> >> For over thirteen years now I've written a Field Collecting Journal >> which documents all of my mineral and fossil collecting trips during >> this period. Currently these adventures span four separate volumes >> with over 1000 pages of text, drawings, maps, etc. I've compiled my >> statistics for this last years collecting, 2005, and have included >> them following if you've an interest. For me, my journals are >> constant sources for reference and smiles and for this reason more >> then any other, I hope you'll consider starting a Field Collecting >> Journal of your own. >> >> As the days pass and our grasp of information becomes more >> encumbered, we risk losing the details of some of our most >> extraordinary collecting moments. For me, this was unacceptable. With >> this decision made, next followed several rounds of internal debate >> as to how to proceed, after all, I'd been collecting for some time >> now and what of those trips made prior to my beginning journaling? >> And so I pondered and all the while other collecting trips memories >> were lost. In frustration I decided I had to act. No more being >> wishy-washy, half here and half there, if I was going to start it was >> time to start. So that's exactly what I did, I started. I went out >> and purchased a nice looking, inexpensive Shaws Account Book from our >> local Stationary store which has 300 lined pages and is hard bound. >> To clarify my thoughts, my first entry introduced myself and >> explained my reasons for starting the Journal (some of which I've >> mentioned above). Following this I summed up some of the highlights >> from past collecting trips and then I was ready for new adventures >> and new entries. So, armed with all the excuse I needed, I headed out >> to collect! >> >> As I sit here in momentary reflection, a half smile flickering across >> my lips, that's exactly what I did too, I hit the hills and with a >> vengeance! As an example, as documented in 1996, that year I hit 113 >> localities! Just try remembering all of your trips from 1996 and >> you'll see the obvious benefit of starting your own Collecting >> Journal! But, for those of you who need additional reasons, I've come >> prepared with more positive arguments and the best of these is simply >> curation. We should all strive to curate our collections to some >> extent or another if we hope to have our collections attain any >> lasting relevancy. The documentation and histories of our specimens >> is of utmost import and we should strive for perfection and grace in >> this regard. Of course if your like me, perfection and grace are >> often replaced by incompetence and bumbling, still, I aspire! >> >> These are just some thoughts, which ever way you go and wherever your >> path may take you, I wish you fare adventuring each and all! >> >> Happy New Year, >> >> John >> >> >> 2005 Collecting Statistics >> >> 21 Trips total recorded >> >> 17 different places ---- 8 Minerals, 4 Fossils, 5 Events >> >> Most Frequented Locality ----- 11 trips (a fossil locality), 6th >> year in a row >> >> New Localities ---- 0 >> >> Shows I participated in --- 7 >> >> Territory Covered ---- Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, >> California, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah >> >> Longest Trip ---- 27 days >> >> Journal pages recorded --- 87 >> >> Crystal and Fossils papers wrote --- 13 >> >> In review of this last year, I find that I'm unwilling to look >> backwards so much as I'm wanting to look forward to the possibilities >> of this new year 2006. Twenty-one trips... I've got to get out more! >> Have a great year everyone, all the very best, >> >> John >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _________________________________________________________________ > On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how > to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Mon Jan 2 11:52:35 2006 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Tue Jan 3 08:48:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New lister, just joined! Message-ID: I just recently joined this list (actually about 20 minutes ago!). I am leaving USA February to South Africa and Lesotho on business but would like to explore rockhounding or dino track sightseeing opportunities with anyone from Johannesburg, Bethlehem, Fouriesburg, etc. in South Africa, or even better, with someone who has knowlege or rockhounding experience in Lesotho. I am a retired earth sciences teacher who has enjoyed rockhounding for nearly 40 years. African minerals --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From markhp at xs4all.nl Mon Jan 2 13:38:41 2006 From: markhp at xs4all.nl (Mark Holtkamp) Date: Tue Jan 3 08:49:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inclusions In-Reply-To: <200601012309.k01N9QIL017456@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200601012309.k01N9QIL017456@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <43B99D61.7050008@xs4all.nl> Hi Bob, Alan is right, this is a cubo-octahedron. There are several of them on my website. The easiest way to select them is to go to the search page (http://www.smorf.nl/frames360search.html), select the cubic crystal class , and then look for crystals that are combinations of {100} (miller indices for the cube) and {111} (the octahedron). Regards, Mark. Bob Loeffler wrote: > Thanks Don and Mark! www.smorf.nl was the one I was thinking of. Mark, can > you create a crystal of a octahedron and then "knock off" the 6 corners to > make faces? That would look a lot like my inclusion. ;-) > > Happy New Year! > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Mark Holtkamp > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:51 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inclusions > > Or try www.smorf.nl > > regards, Mark > > > donhalterman@verizon.net wrote: > > >>Does anyone know of a website that has 3D pictures of crystal habits? >> >> >>Hi, >> >>This is one of the more trustworthy and venerable sites on the Internet > > and has a lot of 3D rotatable crystal drawings: > >>http://www.webmineral.com/ >> >>The drawings were made using JCrystal, and JCrystal includes some of these > > drawings with its package. I stumbled upon JCrystal while searching for a > Wulff net plotting program. Sadly, the Wulff net feature in JCrystal isn't > relevant to what I'm doing, but I was so impressed with all the features > that I bought it anyway. It is inexpensive and runs in Java. I think it > will do what you want to do--search for it and check out the extensive demo > pages. > >>Good luck, >>Don >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Jan 2 13:53:13 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Tue Jan 3 08:50:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite Message-ID: Hello, I'll be leaving for Avi and Quartzsite in a few day. I'll be staying at the Desert Gardens starting about Jan. 16. Is anybody else from the list going to down? Grant From lanny at lrream.com Mon Jan 2 14:48:27 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Jan 3 08:50:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060101164107.0368b3c0@orerockon.com> References: <200512301732.jBUHW3W8032505@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20051231055757.034601d8@orerockon.com> <08b6133efd34308237b6dfdd5e1e8e32@lrream.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060101164107.0368b3c0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <38e7e6985038d5adf6c34199647b3472@lrream.com> Tim, I am sorry to learn that you are getting bad advice from the BLM, and apparently so many confusing and contradictory statements. I am not speaking from having received incorrect advice from the BLM, I am speaking from having been a Mineral Examiner for the BLM and Forest Service for 7 years. That was a few years ago, and a few things have changed, but I am quite sure that the basics we are kicking around here have not changed. I learned these points of the mining law by working with the older Mineral Examiners who administered these laws, participated in court cases and other hearings and read a lot of books and a lot of mining law related court cases, and Interior Department hearings. Unfortunately, the BLM, now that mining has pretty well been driven out of the USA and there are few active mining claims, has just about done away with the true Mineral Examiner who knew the mining laws well. Most of the offices now are populated by young and inexperienced individuals who have no one above them to teach them, or they are not Mining Engineers or Geologists trained to be Mineral Examiners but are simply geologists who have no detailed training or knowledge on mineral law. They can only parrot the basics. There also is the problem that a lot of BLM and FS administrators do not want any mining claims, no surface disturbance bothering them and make all kinds of statements about what is locatable and what is not hoping to discourage mining claim activity. BLM and FS offices in individual states do not have their own rules on most things having to do with the mining laws, they can't, these are set by statute and thousands of court cases, and the BLM regulations (the regulations do not address the things we are discussing in this thread). The BLM and FS offices have a lot of leeway on deciding facts about surface disturbance, but mineral ownership and claimant rights is well established outside the local office. These mining laws are the same from state to state. The separation of the two types of locatable mineral deposits is clear (except in disseminated deposits such as the low grade copper deposits where there is an ongoing argument about placer vs. lode because the deposits are not in a clearly defined "vein."). A placer claim does not give a claimant rights to minerals occurring in a lode deposit and a lode claim does not give a claimant right to minerals occurring in a placer deposit. Thus, a gold nugget or quartz crystal loose in the soil or river gravel is not part of the rights held by the claimant of a lode claim. On the other hand, the placer claim portion of the mining laws, and every court decision I've read or heard of since the passage of the 1872 Mining Law, does not separate out the types of placer deposits. It does not matter if a gold nugget (or any other locatable mineral in a placer deposit) is in the soil, in the river gravels or in a talus fan. The mining claimant has the right to all the locatable placer deposit minerals in those deposits on a placer claim. That includes every grain of the minerals lying loose on the surface, and any depth below the surface down to bedrock. Loose minerals on the surface are clearly part of the minerals belonging to the placer claimant. Acquired lands are a whole different matter, not applicable to this discussion. You cannot locate a claim on lands acquired by the government under the Weeks Law. They are available only by lease, and the BLM and FS has a lot of leeway in what they lease and don't lease. The definition of a locatable mineral might change with every person you talk with in the BLM, but it does not change with law and court decisions defining the law. Regulations cannot even change that (except to a minor degree based on the interpretation of PL 167 (the Multiple Use Act of 1955) which created the salable minerals which made sand and gravel, clay and common varieties of building stone salable and not locatable). It is this latter law that made the waters a little murky for many rockhounding materials. BLM and FS administrators who did not want claims on their lands started calling everything that was not a metallic mineral salable and not locatable. Fortunately, clearer heads and many court cases straightened "most" of that out. Not all, there still is some differences of opinion on some of the things that rockhounds want. The government lost many of the court challenges, but won some. Obsidian was declared a common variety mineral, not locatable. Geodes have been determined to be locatable in a Utah case involving Dugway geodes, yet the BLM may state that they are common variety and a claimant may have to pursue the matter to prove that they are locatable. The same for agate, jasper, thundereggs and this type of material. This common variety thing is a stumbling block for these. Stake a claim if you like, but be prepared to have to defend it in court, or at least through some bureaucracy to an Interior Board of Land appeals Judge (these guys know the law, so you can win with them if the evidence is there as opposed to arguing with the local idiot in the district office). What can win cases on these popular rockhound items is proving that they have special value, are "uncommon" variety. That's how some building stone claims become valid. Gem materials, such as sapphires, amethyst and sunstone are locatable. As to quartz crystals, they are clearly locatable. No question about it. Like so many other gem or rockhound materials, a lot of land managers say they are not, but claims for quartz crystals have been upheld. If there was any question to this, then why did the FS go to the problem of convincing Congress to pass a special law making them salable in Arkansas when the quartz rush caused so much land disturbance and administrative hassles in the 1980s? That law specifically addressed only quartz crystals in Arkansas, leaving quartz crystals in other states still subject to location. I know of a mining claim for heulandite crystals in Idaho that is being handled by the BLM recognizing that heulandite is locatable. In the same area is a claim for quartz pseudomorphs of apophyllite, also being handled as if that is locatable. Seems to me these are more evidence that they are locatable. Another for quartz and pyrite in Washington. The FS tried the "not locatable" garbage with that too, didn't get very far through their own administration. The obsidian question was settled in the negative, which compared to the other cases involving rockhounding materials, I was surprised. There was no distinction between the material being common or having unique and special values, all obsidian was not locatable. If this has changed, its been a recent court case. That would be a surprise. I expect that at Glass Buttes, the claims are in fact invalid ab initio (as the legalese would put it). Regards, Lanny On Jan 1, 2006, at 5:00 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Lanny, it is not so in Washington and Oregon. Each BLM region has > their own rules, and our regional rules are apparently different than > yours. As a claimant (and a lessee), the MHRC has asked these > questions, and received different answers than you did, apparently. > The only distinction the WA/OR BLM makes between lode and placer > claims is in the shape of the claim. I know, this means they do not > understand the mining laws, but it is not the claimant's place to > interpret the laws. Therefore, in OR and WA, you can "surface pick" > gold off of a gold placer, not that it would do you any good, since > you can't pan. They do make a distinction between what you can do on a > claim on acquired land (which is then technically a mineral lease, not > a claim) and on land originally ceded to the feds. You are not free to > surface pick anything off of a mineral lease, but how anyone can tell > what is a lease and what is a claim without going to the BLM office is > something they couldn't answer for the MHRC. > > Don't get me started on the definition of a locatable mineral. That > changes with every person we talk to at the BLM. Apparently obsidian, > which was not locatable last time we talked to the Prineville > District, has now become locatable, since there are now "claims" > within the Glass Buttes Public Rockhounding Area (yeah, I know, that > takes the "Public" out of it, doesn't it?). Although I have not heard > from the BLM if these are legal claims, there are individuals posting > and chasing people off of them (the fire obsidian pits are one area > under "claim" at the present). And the BLM's LR2000 online claim > information system is down and has been for at least a year now so I > can't even verify the authenticity of these claims. Picture jasper is > locatable, but agate and common jasper aren't (again, it depends on > who you talk to; our lease of the Lily Pad jasper pit on acquired land > fell through because it is not "marketable" but no one else is allowed > to lease it as long as our application is on file; go figure). > Thundereggs are, quartz crystals aren't, but rhodonite is. The list > goes on. > > At 02:49 PM 1/1/2006, you wrote: >> Hi Bob, >> >> I'm going to have to disagree with some of Tim's responses. On #1, >> lode claims and placer claims are treated differently in this aspect. >> A lode deposit is of minerals in place, a placer deposit is of >> minerals that have been weathered out and not in their place of >> formation, they are in the surficial deposits (alluvium , colluvium, >> etc.). This is separate in the laws. Thus, on a lode claim, the >> claimant does not have exclusive rights to a crystal that has >> weathered out of the rock and is loose in the soil and stream >> gravels, but does have rights to it on a placer claim. The placer >> claim laws do not differentiate between the various types of placer >> deposits as to a claimant's rights. If you locate a placer claim, all >> the locatable placer minerals belong to you; it doesn't matter if >> they are in the stream gravels, soil or talus below a big cliff. >> >> This brings us to number 2. No it does not matter what mineral the >> claim was staked for. Locating a claim gives the claimant the right >> to all of the minerals of that deposit type, all locatable minerals >> in place if on a lode claim, and all locatable placer type mineral >> deposits on a placer claim. >> >> Thus, if a lode claim is staked for copper, lead, silver and gold, >> and even if the claimant is only interested in the minerals carrying >> those metals, he still has legal claim to any quartz crystals or >> other locatable minerals in place on the claim. If he staked the >> claim for gold and has spent 50 years prospecting it, and you come >> along and find a vein of amethyst 200 feet from his workings (still >> within the boundaries of the claim), those amethyst crystals are >> still his. It doesn't matter that he didn't see them, saw them and >> didn't care or just hadn't found them yet. Although, any amethyst >> crystals weathered out and loose in the soil on the hillside below >> the amethyst vein are placer minerals, and not in the claimant's >> rights. You can legally pick, them up. Although, you may want to >> watch out for the mining claimant; he may not have legal claim to >> them, but they are on his claim, and I've seen those rifles hanging >> in the racks in the cab of their trucks... you may want to ask >> permission to do some rockhounding on an active claim. >> >> As to the liability; go with what Tim wrote. So far, I don't believe >> anyone has been held liable for natural hazards on lands covered by >> mining claims. If the claim covers a cliff and you fall of the cliff, >> then that's your tough luck. Let's hope it stays that way. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From buff1 at ptd.net Mon Jan 2 16:18:17 2006 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Tue Jan 3 08:51:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chicago in april and may??? Message-ID: <43B9C2C9.2060803@ptd.net> I am completely unfamiliar with the Chicago area, but, will find myself in that general area.. 3/20-4/7 and 4/24-5/12. Any collecting spots within 5-6 hours?? Any cool rock shops?? I also understand there is a must see aquarium in the area somewhere. Please reply off list... buff1@ptd.net Thanks in advance for any guidance... Dennis Buffenmyer life is hard... but, consider the alternative.... From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Jan 2 19:23:12 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Jan 3 08:53:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics References: <43B954F5.5030206@tenforward.com> Message-ID: <000801c61015$078f7e80$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Perhaps it is true that people aren't getting out. Certainly winter collecting isn't as widespread as other seasons. I was literally in the field (pasture and soybean) on Christmas Eve. I was with a friend searching for a possible surface entrance for new section of cave passage that he and some associates have recently discovered. Most of the "entrances" we found were great for groundhog spelunkers, but a bit small for people. Backhoe anyone? Anyone with time to "explore" what I'm talking about, go to: www.darklightimagery.net and check out the Webster Cave images or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WCCSG/ for more information. I've written about most of my other trips (see Mineral News). The weather last month was not condusive to getting out to collect. While we had record warm temps today (72 F and tornadoes south of us), it'll be more seasonable later in the week, which means too cold to get out for rooting around. In any event, I've got so much stuff to "process" I don't need to get out! I have several thousand Devonian corals sitting outside and getting cleaned by the rain. There are some really spectacular specimens! I am organizing another KY fluorspar district trip in a few months. Still haven't solidified the date yet - but it will probably be April 1 - 2 (+/- one week). Those of you that have already contacted me, hang on, I'll try to get it firmed up ASAP. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John and Gloria Cornish" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics > Hi Larry and Jennifer, > > Thanks for taking the time to write, I appreciate it. > > With over 300 people on this list, I'd hoped some others may contribute to > this thread, but maybe field collecting is falling to the wayside and > folks don't get out any more. If you do collect, please consider sharing > your experiences. As a field collector, I know I'd sure enjoy it! > > All the very best, > > John > > Lawrence Bull wrote: > >> Happy New Year: >> >> I second your thoughts on the journal... >> >> Yes, it can be tough to take the time but the rewards as outlined by John >> make it all worth while. >> >> There are so many memories that would be lost. So start those journals. >> >> Happy New Year, >> >> Larry Bull >> >> >> >> >>> From: John and Gloria Cornish >>> Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors" >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors" >>> Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End >>> Statistics >>> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 07:39:00 -0800 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 1/1/2006 >>> >>> Field Trip Journals and My 2005 Year End Statistics >>> >>> By John Cornish >>> j&gcornish@tenforward.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> For over thirteen years now I've written a Field Collecting Journal >>> which documents all of my mineral and fossil collecting trips during >>> this period. Currently these adventures span four separate volumes with >>> over 1000 pages of text, drawings, maps, etc. I've compiled my >>> statistics for this last years collecting, 2005, and have included them >>> following if you've an interest. For me, my journals are constant >>> sources for reference and smiles and for this reason more then any >>> other, I hope you'll consider starting a Field Collecting Journal of >>> your own. >>> >>> As the days pass and our grasp of information becomes more encumbered, >>> we risk losing the details of some of our most extraordinary collecting >>> moments. For me, this was unacceptable. With this decision made, next >>> followed several rounds of internal debate as to how to proceed, after >>> all, I'd been collecting for some time now and what of those trips made >>> prior to my beginning journaling? And so I pondered and all the while >>> other collecting trips memories were lost. In frustration I decided I >>> had to act. No more being wishy-washy, half here and half there, if I >>> was going to start it was time to start. So that's exactly what I did, I >>> started. I went out and purchased a nice looking, inexpensive Shaws >>> Account Book from our local Stationary store which has 300 lined pages >>> and is hard bound. To clarify my thoughts, my first entry introduced >>> myself and explained my reasons for starting the Journal (some of which >>> I've mentioned above). Following this I summed up some of the highlights >>> from past collecting trips and then I was ready for new adventures and >>> new entries. So, armed with all the excuse I needed, I headed out to >>> collect! >>> >>> As I sit here in momentary reflection, a half smile flickering across my >>> lips, that's exactly what I did too, I hit the hills and with a >>> vengeance! As an example, as documented in 1996, that year I hit 113 >>> localities! Just try remembering all of your trips from 1996 and you'll >>> see the obvious benefit of starting your own Collecting Journal! But, >>> for those of you who need additional reasons, I've come prepared with >>> more positive arguments and the best of these is simply curation. We >>> should all strive to curate our collections to some extent or another if >>> we hope to have our collections attain any lasting relevancy. The >>> documentation and histories of our specimens is of utmost import and we >>> should strive for perfection and grace in this regard. Of course if your >>> like me, perfection and grace are often replaced by incompetence and >>> bumbling, still, I aspire! >>> >>> These are just some thoughts, which ever way you go and wherever your >>> path may take you, I wish you fare adventuring each and all! >>> >>> Happy New Year, >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> 2005 Collecting Statistics >>> >>> 21 Trips total recorded >>> >>> 17 different places ---- 8 Minerals, 4 Fossils, 5 Events >>> >>> Most Frequented Locality ----- 11 trips (a fossil locality), 6th year >>> in a row >>> >>> New Localities ---- 0 >>> >>> Shows I participated in --- 7 >>> >>> Territory Covered ---- Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, California, >>> Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah >>> >>> Longest Trip ---- 27 days >>> >>> Journal pages recorded --- 87 >>> >>> Crystal and Fossils papers wrote --- 13 >>> >>> In review of this last year, I find that I'm unwilling to look backwards >>> so much as I'm wanting to look forward to the possibilities of this new >>> year 2006. Twenty-one trips... I've got to get out more! Have a great >>> year everyone, all the very best, >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to >> get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bobl at peaktopeak.com Mon Jan 2 22:00:16 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Jan 3 08:54:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inclusions In-Reply-To: <005e01c60f3b$00ce6050$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <200601030600.k0360aBu016178@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi Alan, Yup, that's exactly what it is. I think it's also called an "octahedron modified by the cube" (or something like that). My friend and I looked at it with his 10x triplet loope (a very nice one) last night. We also looked at it with a microscope at 45x and I think 70 or 72x. The highest power never focused right. 45x was ok, but not great. His 10x triplet made it look really nice. He agreed that it is (or was) a fluorite cubo-octahedron. He just isn't sure if there is any crystal left, as Pete mentioned. I do see a greenish color where the crystal is/was, so I think it's still there. Unfortunately my friend is color blind, so he can't see the green color. And guess what? I found another topaz crystal today with my buddies and it has another inclusion. :-) We found it about 50 feet north of the other crystal (so a completely different origin, although the same pegmatite area). This one has a crystal that looks a little like tourmaline (green, transparent and a hexagonal termination), but it looks like many layers stacked on top of each other. The top layer doesn't look like a good, clean tourmaline termination and the whole thing is very much tapered instead of prismatic, so I am thinking it's layers of mica. The top layer is the largest layer and has a hexagonal shape to it, although it is "squashed" (two parallel sides are a little longer than the other 4). If I can draw a picture of it, I'll post it on my website. Hmmm... maybe I should start a new collection category at my house, "Inclusions within Topaz from the Tarryall Mountains, Colorado, USA". :-) Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Alan Goldstein Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 6:23 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inclusions Sounds like a cubo-octahedron. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 6:09 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Inclusions > Thanks Don and Mark! www.smorf.nl was the one I was thinking of. Mark, > can > you create a crystal of a octahedron and then "knock off" the 6 corners to > make faces? That would look a lot like my inclusion. ;-) > > Happy New Year! > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Mark Holtkamp > Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 4:51 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inclusions > > Or try www.smorf.nl > > regards, Mark > > > donhalterman@verizon.net wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a website that has 3D pictures of crystal habits? >> >> >> Hi, >> >> This is one of the more trustworthy and venerable sites on the Internet > and has a lot of 3D rotatable crystal drawings: >> >> http://www.webmineral.com/ >> >> The drawings were made using JCrystal, and JCrystal includes some of >> these > drawings with its package. I stumbled upon JCrystal while searching for a > Wulff net plotting program. Sadly, the Wulff net feature in JCrystal > isn't > relevant to what I'm doing, but I was so impressed with all the features > that I bought it anyway. It is inexpensive and runs in Java. I think it > will do what you want to do--search for it and check out the extensive > demo > pages. >> >> Good luck, >> Don >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jan 3 09:30:12 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jan 3 09:30:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite Message-ID: <010320061730.25187.43BAB4A3000C617A00006263215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Well, you learn something new every day (maybe). I was curious about your email, I've never heard of such a place as "Avi" in Arizona (or anywhere else). Is that shorthand for something? I just queried the USGS Geographic Names database http://geonames.usgs.gov/ and the closest it comes up with is, Avi Suquilla Airport Class:Airport Description:Facility is located 1 mi E from Parker (The airport is in La Paz County. I must admit, I'm not terribly familiar with Parker AZ, either, the name doesn't roll off the tongue like Phoenix, Tucson, Flagstaff, Sedona, Morenci, Tombstone, or even Yuma. I guess it's over there somewheres along the Colorado River in western Arizona. That's just all unknown desert country to us Rocky Mountain types, you understand.) I've been going to Tucson for more years than I can remember, but that always involves crossing only eastern AZ (coming from NM or CO) and I've only been to Tucson, never Quartzsite (I guess because you would say because my orientation is "mineral collector" rather than "rockhound", to the extent that there's a difference.) grins and best wishes to all on the List, Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from Grant Johnston : -------------- > Hello, > > I'll be leaving for Avi and Quartzsite in a few day. I'll be staying > at the Desert Gardens starting about Jan. 16. Is anybody else from the > list going to down? > > Grant > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Tue Jan 3 09:40:18 2006 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Tue Jan 3 09:40:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002901c6108c$c44240e0$b3c8f051@Rik> I will probably be in Quartzsite on sunday-afternoon 15/1 for a couple of hours only, but I'm not sure at all. Grts, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Grant Johnston Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:53 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite Hello, I'll be leaving for Avi and Quartzsite in a few day. I'll be staying at the Desert Gardens starting about Jan. 16. Is anybody else from the list going to down? Grant _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Tue Jan 3 09:40:27 2006 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jan 3 09:40:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: South Africa (was) New lister, just joined! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060103073400.0252e090@incoming.verizon.net> Welcome, Donald. Horst Windisch lives in Pretoria. He's a member of this List and may respond---especially with the new title I put on this message. He might be able to give you some information. Here's his address to try off-list: horstwindisch@absamail.co.za Aloha, Kitty At 09:52 AM 1/2/2006, you wrote: >I just recently joined this list (actually about 20 minutes ago!). I am >leaving USA February to South Africa and Lesotho on business but would >like to explore rockhounding or dino track sightseeing opportunities with >anyone from Johannesburg, Bethlehem, Fouriesburg, etc. in South Africa, or >even better, with someone who has knowlege or rockhounding experience in >Lesotho. > >I am a retired earth sciences teacher who has enjoyed rockhounding for >nearly 40 years. African minerals From rocks4u at prodigy.net Tue Jan 3 09:41:41 2006 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Tue Jan 3 09:45:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite References: <010320061730.25187.43BAB4A3000C617A00006263215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <00ab01c6108c$f5416f90$8d27fea9@WesMedion1918> AVI is short hand for the Indian casino just across the Colorado River from Fort Mojave, AZ on the Avi reservation. This is the place that Clouds Gem show moved to from Quartzsite a few years back when the AZ DOT took over the land they used to hold the show on. You can Google Clouds Gem show. Cheers! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite > Well, you learn something new every day (maybe). I was curious about your > email, I've never heard of such a place as "Avi" in Arizona (or anywhere > else). Is that shorthand for something? I just queried the USGS > Geographic Names database http://geonames.usgs.gov/ > and the closest it comes up with is, > > Avi Suquilla Airport > Class:Airport > Description:Facility is located 1 mi E from Parker > > (The airport is in La Paz County. I must admit, I'm not terribly familiar > with Parker AZ, either, the name doesn't roll off the tongue like Phoenix, > Tucson, Flagstaff, Sedona, Morenci, Tombstone, or even Yuma. I guess it's > over there somewheres along the Colorado River in western Arizona. > That's just all unknown desert country to us Rocky Mountain types, you > understand.) > > I've been going to Tucson for more years than I can remember, but that > always involves crossing only eastern AZ (coming from NM or CO) and I've > only been to Tucson, never Quartzsite (I guess because you would say > because my orientation is "mineral collector" rather than "rockhound", to > the extent that there's a difference.) > > grins and best wishes to all on the List, > Pete Modreski > -------------- Original message from Grant Johnston > : -------------- > > >> Hello, >> >> I'll be leaving for Avi and Quartzsite in a few day. I'll be staying >> at the Desert Gardens starting about Jan. 16. Is anybody else from the >> list going to down? >> >> Grant >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jan 3 10:11:27 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jan 3 10:11:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite Message-ID: <010320061811.13270.43BABE4E0008A51E000033D6215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Thank you for the explanation, Wes! As I said, live and learn. I see that even if I search on our GNIS for California, there is no "Avi" listed; I guess it's not considered a town, and just "Casinos" don't rate at this time, as features on our USGS maps. I did find on the internet that the Avi casino/resort is on land of the Mojave tribe, and that, The word "avi" means money in the Pipa Aha Macav language. See, I'm living and learning a lot! I see from their website that the casino is actually in Nevada. (GNIS does not come up with any "Avi" place names for NV, either.) I didn't know that the "Quartzsite" event had lapped over into adjacent states. Also, I see now that Avi is a good, long ways from Quartzsite (the town)--like, over 125 miles. Well, what do you know. cheers, Pete -------------- Original message from : -------------- > AVI is short hand for the Indian casino just across the Colorado River from > Fort Mojave, AZ on the Avi reservation. This is the place that Clouds Gem > show moved to from Quartzsite a few years back when the AZ DOT took over the > land they used to hold the show on. You can Google Clouds Gem show. Cheers! > Wes > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:30 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite > > > > Well, you learn something new every day (maybe). I was curious about your > > email, I've never heard of such a place as "Avi" in Arizona (or anywhere > > else). Is that shorthand for something? I just queried the USGS > > Geographic Names database http://geonames.usgs.gov/ > > and the closest it comes up with is, > > > > Avi Suquilla Airport > > Class:Airport > > Description:Facility is located 1 mi E from Parker > > > > (The airport is in La Paz County. I must admit, I'm not terribly familiar > > with Parker AZ, either, the name doesn't roll off the tongue like Phoenix, > > Tucson, Flagstaff, Sedona, Morenci, Tombstone, or even Yuma. I guess it's > > over there somewheres along the Colorado River in western Arizona. > > That's just all unknown desert country to us Rocky Mountain types, you > > understand.) > > > > I've been going to Tucson for more years than I can remember, but that > > always involves crossing only eastern AZ (coming from NM or CO) and I've > > only been to Tucson, never Quartzsite (I guess because you would say > > because my orientation is "mineral collector" rather than "rockhound", to > > the extent that there's a difference.) > > > > grins and best wishes to all on the List, > > Pete Modreski > > -------------- Original message from Grant Johnston > > : -------------- > > > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> I'll be leaving for Avi and Quartzsite in a few day. I'll be staying > >> at the Desert Gardens starting about Jan. 16. Is anybody else from the > >> list going to down? > >> > >> Grant > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Tue Jan 3 10:21:20 2006 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jan 3 10:21:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] trapped miners Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060103080854.03b0df30@incoming.verizon.net> Dear List, As rockhounds we have a particular interest in mining, and thus we follow with great concern the news of the trapped miners in West Virginia. Bill and I remember being in Broken Hill, NSW Australia when the Pennsylvania miners were trapped in 2002. Virtually all residents of that mining town were glued to TV's and radios, following the rescue efforts. (And the pubs were full of celebrants when the miners came out alive.) The news at this moment does not look good, so I'd like to encourage everyone to think positive thoughts or offer prayers for the miners and their families. Aloha, Kitty From albalmer at att.net Tue Jan 3 10:22:21 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Jan 3 10:22:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43BAC0DD.1000603@att.net> Grant Johnston wrote: > Hello, > > I'll be leaving for Avi and Quartzsite in a few day. I'll be staying > at the Desert Gardens starting about Jan. 16. Is anybody else from the > list going to down? > I spent most of an afternoon at Desert Gardens yesterday. A lot of people still setting up, or nowhere in sight. I bought some mookite for cabbing at a decent price, and my wife added yet another amethyst cathedral to her collection. I picked up a piece of faceting material which the seller claimed was Russian synthetic zircon, but I'm suspicious that it's actually CZ. I'll check it out tonight. I probably won't go back until the Tyson Wells show is up ad running. From SMKELL45 at aol.com Tue Jan 3 10:52:45 2006 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 3 10:52:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chicago in april and may??? Message-ID: <197.4df7d91b.30ec21fd@aol.com> Hi. Can't help on the collecting sites but there is a mineral exhibit at the Field Museum. The Aquarium is within a few minutes walk of the museum. In the same area there is a planetarium, very interesting, especially the adjoining exhibits. All three are on a peninsula about a mile south of Millennium Park. Ask anyone by the lake, they all are very friendly. smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bova at mindspring.com Tue Jan 3 11:54:36 2006 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Tue Jan 3 11:53:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite In-Reply-To: <010320061811.13270.43BABE4E0008A51E000033D6215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Avi Resort and Casino is the site of the outdoor show at Laughlin, NV. Try cloudsjamboree.com for more details. Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary http://www.eclecticlapidary.com On Tuesday, January 3, 2006, at 01:11 PM, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > Thank you for the explanation, Wes! As I said, live and learn. > > I see that even if I search on our GNIS for California, there is no > "Avi" listed; I guess it's not considered a town, and just "Casinos" > don't rate at this time, as features on our USGS maps. I did find on > the internet that the Avi casino/resort is on land of the Mojave > tribe, and that, > The word "avi" means money in the Pipa Aha Macav language. > See, I'm living and learning a lot! I see from their website that the > casino is actually in Nevada. (GNIS does not come up with any "Avi" > place names for NV, either.) > I didn't know that the "Quartzsite" event had lapped over into > adjacent states. Also, I see now that Avi is a good, long ways from > Quartzsite (the town)--like, over 125 miles. Well, what do you know. > > cheers, > Pete > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Tue Jan 3 12:16:53 2006 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Tue Jan 3 12:18:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New lister, just joined! References: Message-ID: <002f01c610a2$cabd7c80$634227c4@privatehome> Hi Donald, Contact me off-line please. I am the President of the Federation of Southern African Gem and Mineralogical Societies and also its Foreign Contacts Liaison Officer. During the past three decades and more, I have supplied information to rockhounds world-wide who were coming to visit South Africa, Namibia (formerly South West Africa) and Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia), free of charge.. I can be contacted at horstwindisch@absamail.co.za. Kind regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Tuttle" To: Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:52 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] New lister, just joined! I just recently joined this list (actually about 20 minutes ago!). I am leaving USA February to South Africa and Lesotho on business but would like to explore rockhounding or dino track sightseeing opportunities with anyone from Johannesburg, Bethlehem, Fouriesburg, etc. in South Africa, or even better, with someone who has knowlege or rockhounding experience in Lesotho. I am a retired earth sciences teacher who has enjoyed rockhounding for nearly 40 years. African minerals --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rocks4u at prodigy.net Tue Jan 3 12:52:07 2006 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Tue Jan 3 12:56:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite References: <010320061811.13270.43BABE4E0008A51E000033D6215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <00b001c610a7$912c24d0$8d27fea9@WesMedion1918> Rumor has it that this may be the last year the casino allows their RV lot to be used as a Gem Show grounds. Clouds Gemboree also has a downtown Laughlin, NV show as seen on their website and that will continue. I don't think the new location for Clouds ever caught on. Sort of an out of the way place. Cheers! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite > Thank you for the explanation, Wes! As I said, live and learn. > > I see that even if I search on our GNIS for California, there is no "Avi" > listed; I guess it's not considered a town, and just "Casinos" don't rate > at this time, as features on our USGS maps. I did find on the internet > that the Avi casino/resort is on land of the Mojave tribe, and that, > The word "avi" means money in the Pipa Aha Macav language. > See, I'm living and learning a lot! I see from their website that the > casino is actually in Nevada. (GNIS does not come up with any "Avi" place > names for NV, either.) > I didn't know that the "Quartzsite" event had lapped over into adjacent > states. Also, I see now that Avi is a good, long ways from Quartzsite > (the town)--like, over 125 miles. Well, what do you know. > > cheers, > Pete > > -------------- Original message from : -------------- > > >> AVI is short hand for the Indian casino just across the Colorado River >> from >> Fort Mojave, AZ on the Avi reservation. This is the place that Clouds Gem >> show moved to from Quartzsite a few years back when the AZ DOT took over >> the >> land they used to hold the show on. You can Google Clouds Gem show. >> Cheers! >> Wes >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:30 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite >> >> >> > Well, you learn something new every day (maybe). I was curious about >> > your >> > email, I've never heard of such a place as "Avi" in Arizona (or >> > anywhere >> > else). Is that shorthand for something? I just queried the USGS >> > Geographic Names database http://geonames.usgs.gov/ >> > and the closest it comes up with is, >> > >> > Avi Suquilla Airport >> > Class:Airport >> > Description:Facility is located 1 mi E from Parker >> > >> > (The airport is in La Paz County. I must admit, I'm not terribly >> > familiar >> > with Parker AZ, either, the name doesn't roll off the tongue like >> > Phoenix, >> > Tucson, Flagstaff, Sedona, Morenci, Tombstone, or even Yuma. I guess >> > it's >> > over there somewheres along the Colorado River in western Arizona. >> > That's just all unknown desert country to us Rocky Mountain types, you >> > understand.) >> > >> > I've been going to Tucson for more years than I can remember, but that >> > always involves crossing only eastern AZ (coming from NM or CO) and >> > I've >> > only been to Tucson, never Quartzsite (I guess because you would say >> > because my orientation is "mineral collector" rather than "rockhound", >> > to >> > the extent that there's a difference.) >> > >> > grins and best wishes to all on the List, >> > Pete Modreski >> > -------------- Original message from Grant Johnston >> > : -------------- >> > >> > >> >> Hello, >> >> >> >> I'll be leaving for Avi and Quartzsite in a few day. I'll be staying >> >> at the Desert Gardens starting about Jan. 16. Is anybody else from the >> >> list going to down? >> >> >> >> Grant >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> >> Subscription Services: >> >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > multipart/alternative >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > text/html >> > --- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From roughrock at gmail.com Tue Jan 3 15:33:58 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Tue Jan 3 15:34:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite In-Reply-To: <00b001c610a7$912c24d0$8d27fea9@WesMedion1918> References: <010320061811.13270.43BABE4E0008A51E000033D6215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <00b001c610a7$912c24d0$8d27fea9@WesMedion1918> Message-ID: Yes, Avi is out of the way. I think vendors did OK but it wasn't ever as big as the Clouds at the junction of I-10 & Highway 95. Customers who went to Avi had to want to go to a rock show and not just be looking for a flea market. But the year Clouds moved to Avi, Desert Gardens opened with mostly rocks plus the excitement (Craziness?) of Quartzsite. I think Clouds and Desert Gardens split the business, the drew, that the original Clouds had developed. I enjoy both and I can go through Avi on my way to Quartzsite, so it doesn't add to much mileage. I also think the free dry camping at Avi attracts some people (boondockers) who are not buyers of rock and lapidary supplies They are looking for a place to park for free. Since the Casino offers a few perks, like bingo and a $1.99 breakfast or $2.99 pasta dinner, it attracts people living on a tight budget. Quartzsite has lost some of the BLM land that was used for dry camping 10 years ago. There's still enough-- but BLM closed some of it because of the damage the boondockers were doing. And there's no cheap eats left in Quartzsite. Grant On 1/3/06, rocks4u@prodigy.net wrote: > Rumor has it that this may be the last year the casino allows their RV lot > to be used as a Gem Show grounds. Clouds Gemboree also has a downtown > Laughlin, NV show as seen on their website and that will continue. I don't > think the new location for Clouds ever caught on. Sort of an out of the way > place. Cheers! > Wes > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:11 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite > > > > Thank you for the explanation, Wes! As I said, live and learn. > > > > I see that even if I search on our GNIS for California, there is no "Avi" > > listed; I guess it's not considered a town, and just "Casinos" don't rate > > at this time, as features on our USGS maps. I did find on the internet > > that the Avi casino/resort is on land of the Mojave tribe, and that, > > The word "avi" means money in the Pipa Aha Macav language. > > See, I'm living and learning a lot! I see from their website that the > > casino is actually in Nevada. (GNIS does not come up with any "Avi" place > > names for NV, either.) > > I didn't know that the "Quartzsite" event had lapped over into adjacent > > states. Also, I see now that Avi is a good, long ways from Quartzsite > > (the town)--like, over 125 miles. Well, what do you know. > > > > cheers, > > Pete > > > > -------------- Original message from : -------------- > > > > > >> AVI is short hand for the Indian casino just across the Colorado River > >> from > >> Fort Mojave, AZ on the Avi reservation. This is the place that Clouds Gem > >> show moved to from Quartzsite a few years back when the AZ DOT took over > >> the > >> land they used to hold the show on. You can Google Clouds Gem show. > >> Cheers! > >> Wes > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: > >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:30 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite > >> > >> > >> > Well, you learn something new every day (maybe). I was curious about > >> > your > >> > email, I've never heard of such a place as "Avi" in Arizona (or > >> > anywhere > >> > else). Is that shorthand for something? I just queried the USGS > >> > Geographic Names database http://geonames.usgs.gov/ > >> > and the closest it comes up with is, > >> > > >> > Avi Suquilla Airport > >> > Class:Airport > >> > Description:Facility is located 1 mi E from Parker > >> > > >> > (The airport is in La Paz County. I must admit, I'm not terribly > >> > familiar > >> > with Parker AZ, either, the name doesn't roll off the tongue like > >> > Phoenix, > >> > Tucson, Flagstaff, Sedona, Morenci, Tombstone, or even Yuma. I guess > >> > it's > >> > over there somewheres along the Colorado River in western Arizona. > >> > That's just all unknown desert country to us Rocky Mountain types, you > >> > understand.) > >> > > >> > I've been going to Tucson for more years than I can remember, but that > >> > always involves crossing only eastern AZ (coming from NM or CO) and > >> > I've > >> > only been to Tucson, never Quartzsite (I guess because you would say > >> > because my orientation is "mineral collector" rather than "rockhound", > >> > to > >> > the extent that there's a difference.) > >> > > >> > grins and best wishes to all on the List, > >> > Pete Modreski > >> > -------------- Original message from Grant Johnston > >> > : -------------- > >> > > >> > > >> >> Hello, > >> >> > >> >> I'll be leaving for Avi and Quartzsite in a few day. I'll be staying > >> >> at the Desert Gardens starting about Jan. 16. Is anybody else from the > >> >> list going to down? > >> >> > >> >> Grant > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> >> Subscription Services: > >> >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> > multipart/alternative > >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> > text/html > >> > --- > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> > Subscription Services: > >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Jan 3 17:41:19 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Jan 3 17:41:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US References: <200512301732.jBUHW3W8032505@bubbleator.drizzle.com><7.0.0.16.2.20051231055757.034601d8@orerockon.com><08b6133efd34308237b6dfdd5e1e8e32@lrream.com><7.0.0.16.2.20060101164107.0368b3c0@orerockon.com> <38e7e6985038d5adf6c34199647b3472@lrream.com> Message-ID: <003001c610cf$f6dde610$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> I can't speak for the BLM, but as a state government employee I can tell you this: There are a lot of bureaucrats out there whose sole purpose in life is to get in their time and retire. They will only do the minimum. An incomplete answer is still an answer and if someone else overturns their decision, if it does not affect their job security they neither care nor will change. Leaders talk about streamlining government and cutting bureaucracy. Ha! You can't deny human nature when you get 10, 50, 100 or 1000 people working in one area. I know folks in a variety of different state and federal gov't agencies and it is the same. Look back at your education in elementary and secondary school. How many teachers were memorably good or bad? Unfortunately the folks who are the best always make up the smallest percentage when lumped with the mediocre and bad. Long live the bell curve! Alan P.S. I try to stay in the top 95%-tile in my work, but I know park naturalists who are burnt out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Laws and rules pertaining to mining claims in the US > Tim, > > I am sorry to learn that you are getting bad advice from the BLM, and > apparently so many confusing and contradictory statements. I am not > speaking from having received incorrect advice from the BLM, I am speaking > from having been a Mineral Examiner for the BLM and Forest Service for 7 > years. That was a few years ago, and a few things have changed, but I am > quite sure that the basics we are kicking around here have not changed. I > learned these points of the mining law by working with the older Mineral > Examiners who administered these laws, participated in court cases and > other hearings and read a lot of books and a lot of mining law related > court cases, and Interior Department hearings. Unfortunately, the BLM, now > that mining has pretty well been driven out of the USA and there are few > active mining claims, has just about done away with the true Mineral > Examiner who knew the mining laws well. Most of the offices now are > populated by young and inexperienced individuals who have no one above > them to teach them, or they are not Mining Engineers or Geologists trained > to be Mineral Examiners but are simply geologists who have no detailed > training or knowledge on mineral law. They can only parrot the basics. > There also is the problem that a lot of BLM and FS administrators do not > want any mining claims, no surface disturbance bothering them and make > all kinds of statements about what is locatable and what is not hoping to > discourage mining claim activity. From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Tue Jan 3 19:17:56 2006 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Tue Jan 3 19:17:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: South Africa (was) New lister, just joined! Twice replied! In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060103073400.0252e090@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: Wow, Kitty and Bill, what an effective list you guys have! Within an hour of joining, I got a response from Horst Windisch in SA, and an invitation to visit when I will be in Pretoria next month--exactly the information I was looking for.  Internet rockhounding is great! Donald L. Tuttle SCOUTGRAPHICS INK USA PO Box 548 Unadilla, NY 13849 Visit us at our webpage: http://www.scoutgraphicsink.net From:   Kitty & Bill Heacox <kahako@verizon.net> Reply-To:   "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> To:   "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject:   [Rockhounds] Re: South Africa (was) New lister, just joined! Date:   Tue, 03 Jan 2006 07:40:27 -1000 >Welcome, Donald. > >Horst Windisch lives in Pretoria.  He's a member of this List and >may respond---especially with the new title I put on this message.   >He might be able to give you some information.  Here's his address >to try off-list: > >horstwindisch@absamail.co.za > >Aloha, Kitty _______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From miller3987 at sbcglobal.net Tue Jan 3 21:31:19 2006 From: miller3987 at sbcglobal.net (Glen Miller) Date: Tue Jan 3 21:30:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lanny Ream reply on mining rules Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060103195036.01e899c0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> Greetings all: To Tim: I'd go with Lanny's explanations on mining laws. As he explained, court tests of agency interpretations of the laws have settled most of the important nuances from claimants. I doubt that the BLM Oregon State Office has different rules than are applied by California. Geologic resources in Oregon are different than in California but the underlying rules are the same. I sense that most questions about what's legal are couched in such ambiguous language that even an experienced collector can't understand the question. My request to the List is please explain your question. I need more background information. How long did it take for the issue of claims, or attempts to claim fire obsidian, at Glass Buttes to come out? There are endless hypothetical questions that have little to do with reality out on the land. How unless a well-defined situation is presented there's little chance of a good answer or of a good learning situation. I've heard of a number of jokers who've been found on phoney "claims" running others off the land with threats. That has nothing to do with legitimate public land mining regulations. Give me a name of a BLM representative and the answer they gave to a specific question. I can look that person up and explore the facts of the case. Others on the List could do the same. This List is a great resource for both us mineral collectors and us rockhounds. We have a "stake" in it to benefit all of us. Glen Miller Redding, CA From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Jan 3 21:46:45 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Tue Jan 3 21:44:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lanny Ream reply on mining rules References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060103195036.01e899c0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501c610f2$3fc5de60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I also found Lanny's responses pretty authoritative. I do recall that some of the claims in Virgin Valley were one type of claim and others came along later and filed the other type of claim, presumably placer claims causing quite a hullabaloo and a legal nightmare for some claimants. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Miller" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:31 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Lanny Ream reply on mining rules > Greetings all: > > To Tim: I'd go with Lanny's explanations on mining laws. As he explained, > court tests of agency interpretations of the laws have settled most of the > important nuances from claimants. I doubt that the BLM Oregon State Office > has different rules than are applied by California. Geologic resources in > Oregon are different than in California but the underlying rules are the same. > > I sense that most questions about what's legal are couched in such > ambiguous language that even an experienced collector can't understand the > question. My request to the List is please explain your question. I need > more background information. > > How long did it take for the issue of claims, or attempts to claim fire > obsidian, at Glass Buttes to come out? There are endless hypothetical > questions that have little to do with reality out on the land. How unless a > well-defined situation is presented there's little chance of a good answer > or of a good learning situation. I've heard of a number of jokers who've > been found on phoney "claims" running others off the land with threats. > That has nothing to do with legitimate public land mining regulations. > > Give me a name of a BLM representative and the answer they gave to a > specific question. I can look that person up and explore the facts of the > case. Others on the List could do the same. > > This List is a great resource for both us mineral collectors and us > rockhounds. We have a "stake" in it to benefit all of us. > > Glen Miller > Redding, CA > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From folmstead at rcn.com Tue Jan 3 22:42:15 2006 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Tue Jan 3 22:42:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Horst..... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43BB6E47.6030808@rcn.com> Please tell Horst HELLO From GeorgiaO Arlington, Virginia Micromineralogists of the National Capital Area, Inc. He is a great "guy" and will be very helpful... very knowledgeable..... __..--..__..--..__ .Donald Tuttle wrote: >Wow, Kitty and Bill, what an effective list you guys have! Within an hour of joining, I got a response from Horst Windisch in SA, and an invitation to visit when I will be in Pretoria next month--exactly the information I was looking for.  Internet rockhounding is great! > > > >Donald L. Tuttle > >SCOUTGRAPHICS INK USA > >PO Box 548 > >Unadilla, NY 13849 > >Visit us at our webpage: > >http://www.scoutgraphicsink.net > > > > > > > > > > > > >From:   >Kitty & Bill Heacox <kahako@verizon.net> > >Reply-To:   >"Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > >To:   >"Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"<rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > >Subject:   >[Rockhounds] Re: South Africa (was) New lister, just joined! > >Date:   >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 07:40:27 -1000 > >>Welcome, Donald. >> >>Horst Windisch lives in Pretoria.  He's a member of this List and >>may respond---especially with the new title I put on this message.   >>He might be able to give you some information.  Here's his address >>to try off-list: >> >>horstwindisch@absamail.co.za >> >>Aloha, >Kitty >_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >text/html (html body -- converted) >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jan 4 06:18:55 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jan 4 06:18:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lanny Ream reply on mining rules In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060103195036.01e899c0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060103195036.01e899c0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060104055350.0367b0a8@orerockon.com> Then you doubt reality; what good is mining law when the interpretation is so inconsistent? As Lanny so thoroughly pointed out, most of the BLM employees responsible for granting and administering claims don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground. I was simply pointing out that the mining law is not applied like it is supposed to be applied here in OR & WA. Our club simply does not have the time, money, or manpower to take the BLM to court over what is locatable and what is not and their interpretation of surface collecting rules and they know that, so they take the easy way out and treat most rockhounding materials as non-locatable and all claims as if they were lode claims. And I wasn't the one asking, I was simply offering my own experience with filing claims for lapidary materials. Look up dryfire obsidian; they have a website and are the ones who have "claimed" the fire pits at Glass Buttes. As I said previously, I cannot verify the claims using the LR2000 system since it is conveniently offline and probably will stay offline (I suspect that the BLM likes it to be offline since no doubt many people such as myself were researching the validity of "claims" and finding that most of the "claimants" chasing rock clubs off of their "claims" were doing so knowing that they were not, in fact, valid claims at all). Our experience has been with the Crooked River Grasslands, the Ochoco NF and the Prineville, Lakeview, and Vale Districts of the BLM. Of these, the Lakeview District has been the best (but they also supposedly granted the obsidian claim) since they deal with sunstone claims practically on a daily basis. The Ochoco NF & the CRNG have been the worst; their proposed Upper Deschutes Resource Management Plan (which is also conveniently unavailable online) was unbelievably stupid in its interpretation of mining law; they proposed to withdraw from mineral entry and severely limit rockhounding activity on tens of current and lapsed lapidary material claims (including ours) since none of the material was "locatable". Despite the fact that most of it has been "located" over and over again by numerous claimants beginning in the 1960s and continuing right through 2005. And since we have claims in dispute at the moment, I will not commit hari kari and direct you to the responsible people in these offices. Imagine what it would be like when we file another claim (and we will, this spring) after they have received tens of phone calls questioning their ability to do their job. At 09:31 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote: >Greetings all: > >To Tim: I'd go with Lanny's explanations on mining laws. As he >explained, court tests of agency interpretations of the laws have >settled most of the important nuances from claimants. I doubt that >the BLM Oregon State Office has different rules than are applied by >California. Geologic resources in Oregon are different than in >California but the underlying rules are the same. > >I sense that most questions about what's legal are couched in such >ambiguous language that even an experienced collector can't >understand the question. My request to the List is please explain >your question. I need more background information. > >How long did it take for the issue of claims, or attempts to claim >fire obsidian, at Glass Buttes to come out? There are endless >hypothetical questions that have little to do with reality out on >the land. How unless a well-defined situation is presented there's >little chance of a good answer or of a good learning >situation. I've heard of a number of jokers who've been found on >phoney "claims" running others off the land with threats. That has >nothing to do with legitimate public land mining regulations. > >Give me a name of a BLM representative and the answer they gave to a >specific question. I can look that person up and explore the facts >of the case. Others on the List could do the same. > >This List is a great resource for both us mineral collectors and us >rockhounds. We have a "stake" in it to benefit all of us. > >Glen Miller >Redding, CA > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jan 4 06:25:04 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jan 4 06:25:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lanny Ream reply on mining rules In-Reply-To: <000501c610f2$3fc5de60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060103195036.01e899c0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> <000501c610f2$3fc5de60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060104061948.03598020@orerockon.com> Yes, some get-rich-quick jokers filed placer claims there in order to 1) keep the public from surface picking opal which weathers out of the ash there pretty darn fast, 2) file them right over existing lode claims, and 3) sell them to unsuspecting entrepreneurs for insane prices. I can't wait to see how the current Wyoming "opal rush" plays out; I bet some of the people filing claims willy-nilly out there are the same characters involved in making the mess in Virgin Valley. At 09:46 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote: >I also found Lanny's responses pretty authoritative. I do recall that some >of the claims in Virgin Valley were one type of claim and others came along >later and filed the other type of claim, presumably placer claims causing >quite a hullabaloo and a legal nightmare for some claimants. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From albalmer at att.net Wed Jan 4 08:26:23 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jan 4 08:26:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite In-Reply-To: <43BAC0DD.1000603@att.net> References: <43BAC0DD.1000603@att.net> Message-ID: <43BBF72F.2050401@att.net> Al Balmer wrote: > Grant Johnston wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I'll be leaving for Avi and Quartzsite in a few day. I'll be staying >> at the Desert Gardens starting about Jan. 16. Is anybody else from the >> list going to down? >> > I spent most of an afternoon at Desert Gardens yesterday. A lot of > people still setting up, or nowhere in sight. > > I bought some mookite for cabbing at a decent price, and my wife added > yet another amethyst cathedral to her collection. I picked up a piece of > faceting material which the seller claimed was Russian synthetic zircon, > but I'm suspicious that it's actually CZ. I'll check it out tonight. > > I probably won't go back until the Tyson Wells show is up ad running. Followup: The "Russian zircon" being sold is definitely CZ, not zircon. From lanny at lrream.com Wed Jan 4 09:38:19 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Jan 4 09:38:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lanny Ream reply on mining rules In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060104061948.03598020@orerockon.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060103195036.01e899c0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> <000501c610f2$3fc5de60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060104061948.03598020@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <1644ac705a21211eec759e9c88896386@lrream.com> On Jan 4, 2006, at 6:25 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Yes, some get-rich-quick jokers filed placer claims there in order to > 1) keep the public from surface picking opal which weathers out of the > ash there pretty darn fast, 2) file them right over existing lode > claims, and 3) sell them to unsuspecting entrepreneurs for insane > prices. I can't wait to see how the current Wyoming "opal rush" plays > out; I bet some of the people filing claims willy-nilly out there are > the same characters involved in making the mess in Virgin Valley. Hi Tim, That's a "normal" problem even with mining claims in mining districts where everyone knows the minerals are locatable (for gold, copper or ...). Lots of people jump in and stake claims, claims overlap, etc. It's been that way since the beginning, and with the "rush" mentality, it will continue until the laws are changed and claims can't be staked, rights to minerals only leased (which I hope is a long way off). There is one factor of the mining law that most people don't know, including all but the experienced government Mineral Examiners, and that is that a placer claim cannot be located over a lode claim. It is technically legal for someone to locate a lode claim over a placer claim. That is, if there is a lode deposit on the same ground as a placer deposit, a second party, or even the first party (holder of the placer claim) can locate a lode claim to get rights to the minerals in place. But it can't be done the other way around. If you stake a claim for a lode deposit, then later discover that you also have a nice rich placer deposit on the same ground, you can't stake a placer claim on it. This fact has been used in the past by the government to get claims declared invalid when it withdraws land. If the claimant of a lode claim, later staked a placer claim on the same ground, and in court states that the placer claim is the one he wants and is the one he considers valid, he essentially has stated that he has abandoned the lode claim or it is invalid for lack of discovery. The government can then inform him that the placer claim is invalid because it was actually invalid ab initio (that is from the initiation) in the fact that it never was a valid claim. Withdrawn land cleared. So, at Virgin Valley, if there is controversy, the problem is the same as has that argument that has come up on the large low grade disseminated copper deposits. The deposit is not really in a vein or what was (unfortunately) developed as the meaning of lode or ledge. Thus some people think a placer claim is better suited for that type of deposit (a widely dispersed mineral occurrence with no distinct vein or ledge restricting or defining it). (Note; In the case of the large disseminated copper deposits, lode claims generally do work because the intent of the law, diligence of the claimants, etc. usually are accepted by the court as supporting the claims. The point can be argued the same way for Virgin Valley, and it could require a court case to argue it. The bottom line at Virgin Valley is that if there are existing lode claims on the opal, then staking a placer claim does nothing but make a mess. Placer claims located over lode claims are invalid. Except, the holders of the placer claims could haul it into court and try to make the case that the lode claims were invalid because that type of deposit should be located as a placer. I believe, the end result usually is that the intent of the lode claimant is more important, that the minerals are in place in rock and even though there may be some question as to the type of deposit, the intent of the mining law has been met. My personal opinion though is that there may be another problem with the Virgin Valley claims: is there really a discovery that meets the "prudent person" test? Staking a claim and making a profit selling rights for the public to dig does not meet the intent of the mining law. This has been decided against claimants of mining claims for rockhound materials. To have a valid discovery, the claimant needs to show that a person of reasonable prudence can work the claims with the reasonable expectation of making a profit. The best defense is that he is mining it and making a profit, but numbers as to mining cost and grade and value of the ore (or gem material) that support the belief, even if he is not actually doing any mining, will generally support the test. The bottom line, is there enough opal on the claims at Virgin Valley that a person could mine it and make a profit? Or, can the claimants only make a profit by selling rights to rockhounds to mine it? If the government asks the question, then the claimant has to prove they have met the prudent person test. If a claim jumper tries it, then they have to prove the original claimant cannot meet the test. Regards, Lanny > > At 09:46 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote: >> I also found Lanny's responses pretty authoritative. I do recall that >> some >> of the claims in Virgin Valley were one type of claim and others came >> along >> later and filed the other type of claim, presumably placer claims >> causing >> quite a hullabaloo and a legal nightmare for some claimants. > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From lanny at lrream.com Wed Jan 4 10:20:36 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Jan 4 10:21:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lanny Ream reply on mining rules In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060104055350.0367b0a8@orerockon.com> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060103195036.01e899c0@pop.sbcglobal.yahoo.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060104055350.0367b0a8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <27cfa0a08da02a6e42462812549d675c@lrream.com> Hi Tim, Unfortunately, back then (1872), and surprise, even now, Congress seems to write laws that are not clear. It's no different with many other laws. There have been more than enough court cases to settle just about every conflict and question of the mining law. That isn't the problem. The problem is that the bureaucracies are not training their employees. You do have a problem, but it may not be quite as bad as most rock clubs or individuals take it. Your defense is to learn the law (yeah, as if that was easy). First off, just because a District Ranger or minerals resource individual tells you that such and such is so and you can't locate that claim, it doesn't mean you can't. When it comes down to such things as can I build a road, dig this hole and things of that type, then the BLM and FS field offices are the boss. As to getting good advice, try the BLM State office, if there isn't anyone in there who actually knows the mining law then try Nevada. I'm not sure about the BLM State Office in Idaho, the old timer who knew the law well just retired. As to verifying the claims using LR2000, that probably won't do you any good anyway. The BLM records claims and manages the paper work at the recordation level, they do not adjudicate them at that level. The law is set up so that they can automatically declare a claim invalid if you don't do the paperwork correctly, or don't pay the fees, but that is all. No one sits down and goes over the claim to determine if it is valid for other reasons. Someone might notice if you staked a claim for those things that clearly are not locatable (water, oil, sand and gravel or building stone for instance), but other than that, all they are doing at that point is recording the claim. Thus the claim will be on the register, but just because a claim is shown as being recorded in Sec. xx, it does not mean it is a valid claim, only that the recordation was done properly and that it is valid as to the paperwork part of the process. Claims only get adjudicated as to other possible problems if a conflict comes up.You can run out and locate a claim on any operating mine you like and it will be recorded (but that doesn't make it valid). Regards, Lanny On Jan 4, 2006, at 6:18 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Then you doubt reality; what good is mining law when the > interpretation is so inconsistent? As Lanny so thoroughly pointed out, > most of the BLM employees responsible for granting and administering > claims don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground. I was simply > pointing out that the mining law is not applied like it is supposed to > be applied here in OR & WA. Our club simply does not have the time, > money, or manpower to take the BLM to court over what is locatable and > what is not and their interpretation of surface collecting rules and > they know that, so they take the easy way out and treat most > rockhounding materials as non-locatable and all claims as if they were > lode claims. And I wasn't the one asking, I was simply offering my own > experience with filing claims for lapidary materials. Look up dryfire > obsidian; they have a website and are the ones who have "claimed" the > fire pits at Glass Buttes. As I said previously, I cannot verify the > claims using the LR2000 system since it is conveniently offline and > probably will stay offline (I suspect that the BLM likes it to be > offline since no doubt many people such as myself were researching the > validity of "claims" and finding that most of the "claimants" chasing > rock clubs off of their "claims" were doing so knowing that they were > not, in fact, valid claims at all). Our experience has been with the > Crooked River Grasslands, the Ochoco NF and the Prineville, Lakeview, > and Vale Districts of the BLM. Of these, the Lakeview District has > been the best (but they also supposedly granted the obsidian claim) > since they deal with sunstone claims practically on a daily basis. The > Ochoco NF & the CRNG have been the worst; their proposed Upper > Deschutes Resource Management Plan (which is also conveniently > unavailable online) was unbelievably stupid in its interpretation of > mining law; they proposed to withdraw from mineral entry and severely > limit rockhounding activity on tens of current and lapsed lapidary > material claims (including ours) since none of the material was > "locatable". Despite the fact that most of it has been "located" over > and over again by numerous claimants beginning in the 1960s and > continuing right through 2005. > > And since we have claims in dispute at the moment, I will not commit > hari kari and direct you to the responsible people in these offices. > Imagine what it would be like when we file another claim (and we will, > this spring) after they have received tens of phone calls questioning > their ability to do their job. > > At 09:31 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote: >> Greetings all: >> >> To Tim: I'd go with Lanny's explanations on mining laws. As he >> explained, court tests of agency interpretations of the laws have >> settled most of the important nuances from claimants. I doubt that >> the BLM Oregon State Office has different rules than are applied by >> California. Geologic resources in Oregon are different than in >> California but the underlying rules are the same. >> >> I sense that most questions about what's legal are couched in such >> ambiguous language that even an experienced collector can't >> understand the question. My request to the List is please explain >> your question. I need more background information. >> >> How long did it take for the issue of claims, or attempts to claim >> fire obsidian, at Glass Buttes to come out? There are endless >> hypothetical questions that have little to do with reality out on the >> land. How unless a well-defined situation is presented there's little >> chance of a good answer or of a good learning situation. I've heard >> of a number of jokers who've been found on phoney "claims" running >> others off the land with threats. That has nothing to do with >> legitimate public land mining regulations. >> >> Give me a name of a BLM representative and the answer they gave to a >> specific question. I can look that person up and explore the facts of >> the case. Others on the List could do the same. >> >> This List is a great resource for both us mineral collectors and us >> rockhounds. We have a "stake" in it to benefit all of us. >> >> Glen Miller >> Redding, CA >> > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Jan 4 11:04:12 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Jan 4 11:04:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lanny Ream reply on mining rules Message-ID: <010420061904.12241.43BC1C27000BCC3800002FD1216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Lanny's discussion of the lode/placer claim legalities, had a notable example in recent decades in Colorado. The site is the fairly well-known "Topaz Mountain Gem Mine", located off Matucat Road at the south end of the Tarryall Mountains. As background, this had been operated in recent years as a fee-digging area "of sorts" by claim owner Walt Rubeck, who died about a year ago. I know some on this List (especially Colorado collector and frequent poster Bob Loeffler) are familiar with this site. Walt did not allow visitor digging as such, but sold buckets of gravel at varying prices depending on the "richness" of the gravel being sold; originally he provided facilities for visitors to screen through these buckets on site, later I believe the gravel was just to take home and sort on your own. I visited Walt there a number of times and he was always very pleasant and courteous in showing us around his claim; Walt was also well known from earlier days as a prominently active caver in the Colorado Springs area. There were also a few rather, shall I say, "irregular" things about the way Walt ran his Gem Mine, such as that the material he sold in buckets had to a greater or lesser degree already been "reviewed" (high-graded?) by him, and that the higher price buckets were "guaranteed" to contain at least one good topaz crystal, so that in effect a visitor was really buying a rough topaz crystal, along with the experience of finding it himself in a bucket of gravel. I'm told that in some cases, the topaz crystal to be found in the bucket had been pre-wrapped in a plastic bag to protect it from damage. Also, that Walt put a great deal of pressure on the "finders" of good topaz crystals in their buckets, to leave the crystal with him for faceting, of which he did a very good job (I've seen many of his fine faceted topazes from the claim), but for which he also charged a pretty hefty fee. In past years I had talked to more than one quite satisfied out-of-state visitor who collected/bought topaz from his mine and ultimately ended up with a quality, faceted Colorado topaz. Getting back to the lode/placer conflict re. Lanny's letter, this "gem mine" claim had originally been located as a lode topaz claim, which was being maintained but not actively worked. The story as I have heard it is that after a visit to the claim, on which Walt Rubeck was congenially shown around by the then owner (the widow of the original filer of the claim), Walt concluded that the deposit was really a placer--all the topaz being found was transported crystals in loose gravel of decomposed granite in the valley fill--and he overstaked the claim as a placer claim. After quite a legal battle in which various experts testified, in an exception to what Lanny says is the usual outcome, the lode claim was invalidated and Walt was given the rights to the deposit as a new placer claim, and that was the basis on which he held and worked the claim until his death. Now, after Walt's demise, the claim is owned by Joe Dorris, mineral collector and dealer from Manitou Springs (and a very good fellow whose ethics have never been questioned), and I understand he is no longer operating it as any kind of public digging site, just as a personal claim on which he digs topaz. Joe (Glacier Peak Minerals) has other claims for amazonite and smoky quartz in the Crystal Peak area, and sells minerals at the Denver Show and a few other Colorado shows; he always has some really top quality material, and much that is reasonably priced too. Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from Lanny : -------------- > On Jan 4, 2006, at 6:25 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > > > Yes, some get-rich-quick jokers filed placer claims there in order to > > 1) keep the public from surface picking opal which weathers out of the > > ash there pretty darn fast, 2) file them right over existing lode > > claims, and 3) sell them to unsuspecting entrepreneurs for insane > > prices. I can't wait to see how the current Wyoming "opal rush" plays > > out; I bet some of the people filing claims willy-nilly out there are > > the same characters involved in making the mess in Virgin Valley. > > Hi Tim, > > That's a "normal" problem even with mining claims in mining districts > where everyone knows the minerals are locatable (for gold, copper or > ...). Lots of people jump in and stake claims, claims overlap, etc. > It's been that way since the beginning, and with the "rush" mentality, > it will continue until the laws are changed and claims can't be staked, > rights to minerals only leased (which I hope is a long way off). > > There is one factor of the mining law that most people don't know, > including all but the experienced government Mineral Examiners, and > that is that a placer claim cannot be located over a lode claim. It is > technically legal for someone to locate a lode claim over a placer > claim. That is, if there is a lode deposit on the same ground as a > placer deposit, a second party, or even the first party (holder of the > placer claim) can locate a lode claim to get rights to the minerals in > place. But it can't be done the other way around. If you stake a claim > for a lode deposit, then later discover that you also have a nice rich > placer deposit on the same ground, you can't stake a placer claim on > it. This fact has been used in the past by the government to get claims > declared invalid when it withdraws land. If the claimant of a lode > claim, later staked a placer claim on the same ground, and in court > states that the placer claim is the one he wants and is the one he > considers valid, he essentially has stated that he has abandoned the > lode claim or it is invalid for lack of discovery. The government can > then inform him that the placer claim is invalid because it was > actually invalid ab initio (that is from the initiation) in the fact > that it never was a valid claim. Withdrawn land cleared. > > So, at Virgin Valley, if there is controversy, the problem is the same > as has that argument that has come up on the large low grade > disseminated copper deposits. The deposit is not really in a vein or > what was (unfortunately) developed as the meaning of lode or ledge. > Thus some people think a placer claim is better suited for that type of > deposit (a widely dispersed mineral occurrence with no distinct vein or > ledge restricting or defining it). (Note; In the case of the large > disseminated copper deposits, lode claims generally do work because the > intent of the law, diligence of the claimants, etc. usually are > accepted by the court as supporting the claims. > > The point can be argued the same way for Virgin Valley, and it could > require a court case to argue it. The bottom line at Virgin Valley is > that if there are existing lode claims on the opal, then staking a > placer claim does nothing but make a mess. Placer claims located over > lode claims are invalid. Except, the holders of the placer claims could > haul it into court and try to make the case that the lode claims were > invalid because that type of deposit should be located as a placer. I > believe, the end result usually is that the intent of the lode claimant > is more important, that the minerals are in place in rock and even > though there may be some question as to the type of deposit, the intent > of the mining law has been met. > > My personal opinion though is that there may be another problem with > the Virgin Valley claims: is there really a discovery that meets the > "prudent person" test? Staking a claim and making a profit selling > rights for the public to dig does not meet the intent of the mining > law. This has been decided against claimants of mining claims for > rockhound materials. To have a valid discovery, the claimant needs to > show that a person of reasonable prudence can work the claims with the > reasonable expectation of making a profit. The best defense is that he > is mining it and making a profit, but numbers as to mining cost and > grade and value of the ore (or gem material) that support the belief, > even if he is not actually doing any mining, will generally support the > test. The bottom line, is there enough opal on the claims at Virgin > Valley that a person could mine it and make a profit? Or, can the > claimants only make a profit by selling rights to rockhounds to mine > it? If the government asks the question, then the claimant has to prove > they have met the prudent person test. If a claim jumper tries it, then > they have to prove the original claimant cannot meet the test. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > > > At 09:46 PM 1/3/2006, you wrote: > >> I also found Lanny's responses pretty authoritative. I do recall that > >> some > >> of the claims in Virgin Valley were one type of claim and others came > >> along > >> later and filed the other type of claim, presumably placer claims > >> causing > >> quite a hullabaloo and a legal nightmare for some claimants. > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 4 12:43:24 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Jan 4 12:43:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD and Holiday Greetings Message-ID: <20060104204324.52137.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Happy New Year to all our friends! Disclaimer: If you use a calendar other than ours, please delete the first sentence of this message, so that we do not inadverently offend anyone. In the next few hours I'll be posting an update to the Sauktown Sales price list of microminerals. There are a number of uncommon species, and two items of special interest. These are specimens collected by David Shannon: Shannonite, which was named for him, and Orthoserpierite from Mammoth, AZ, which was the subject of an article by Shannon in the Mineralogical Record, vol. 27, p. 189. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Jan 4 17:54:57 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Jan 4 17:54:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite In-Reply-To: <43BBF72F.2050401@att.net> Message-ID: What are the definitive tests? Thanks! Glenn From: Al Balmer <albalmer@att.net> Followup: The "Russian zircon" being sold is definitely CZ, not zircon. ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ 3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Jan 4 18:11:02 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Jan 4 18:11:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Happy New Year! Message-ID: A few days late 'cause we were on a short trip. Just for fun with a daughter and her boyfriend. Unfortunately not rockhounding, although I did see several nice jade carvings, and Jeanette collected a couple of pearls (right out of the oysters) she plans to use for earrings. Happy Rockhounding New Year!!! Glenn ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get a bird’s eye view of your home with Windows Live Local ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From buff1 at ptd.net Wed Jan 4 18:31:35 2006 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Wed Jan 4 18:31:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chicago in april and may??? In-Reply-To: <197.4df7d91b.30ec21fd@aol.com> References: <197.4df7d91b.30ec21fd@aol.com> Message-ID: <43BC8507.6030203@ptd.net> SMKELL45@aol.com wrote: >Hi. Can't help on the collecting sites but there is a mineral exhibit at >the Field Museum. The Aquarium is within a few minutes walk of the museum. In >the same area there is a planetarium, very interesting, especially the >adjoining exhibits. All three are on a peninsula about a mile south of Millennium >Park. Ask anyone by the lake, they all are very friendly. smkell > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > thanks so much for the info!!! sounds like the penninsula has quite a lot to see.... and I plan to.... From gene at fossilnut.com Wed Jan 4 18:47:31 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Wed Jan 4 18:47:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chicago in april and may??? References: <197.4df7d91b.30ec21fd@aol.com> <43BC8507.6030203@ptd.net> Message-ID: <005301c611a2$5fd3d490$6400a8c0@hppav> The Lizzardo Museum of Lapidary arts is in Elmhurst nearby. Spectacular stuff !!!!!!!http://www.lizzadromuseum.org/ The Mazon Creek collecting area is nearby. This is a world famous fossil Lagerstaten, where soft bodied animals are preserved in exquisite detail. The area may not be open to collecting during the winter but should be open in May. The area is managed by Illinois Dept of Natural Resources. Check this site for info on getting a day permit to collect. http://www.esconi.org/Mazon_Creek_Final.htm I lived in the area 10 years ago. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Buffenmyer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Chicago in april and may??? > SMKELL45@aol.com wrote: > >>Hi. Can't help on the collecting sites but there is a mineral exhibit at >>the Field Museum. The Aquarium is within a few minutes walk of the museum. >>In the same area there is a planetarium, very interesting, especially the >>adjoining exhibits. All three are on a peninsula about a mile south of >>Millennium Park. Ask anyone by the lake, they all are very friendly. >>smkell >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> > thanks so much for the info!!! sounds like the penninsula has quite a lot > to see.... and I plan to.... > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jan 4 19:10:50 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 4 19:11:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite References: Message-ID: <43BC8E35.1EB1@Tomaszewski.net> Glenn, Since it was transparent the obvious test would be for the Refractive Index (and also BiRefraction). Specific Gravity would also be definitive. For Zircon the values would be 1.93-1.98, 0.059, and 4.69 respectively. For CZ the values would vary, being different (and not matching Zircon) depending on which treatment (typicaly rare earth stabilization) was used in making the CZ. You could also use thermal conductivity, or spectral analysis of what light is passed thru the gem (particularly near UV, or x-ray). All five tests are definitive according to the GIA. Kreigh Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > What are the definitive tests? > > Thanks! > > Glenn > > From: Al Balmer <albalmer@att.net> > Followup: The "Russian zircon" being sold is definitely CZ, not zircon. > From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jan 4 19:22:28 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Jan 4 19:25:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chicago in april and may??? References: <43B9C2C9.2060803@ptd.net> Message-ID: <008701c611a7$45da41a0$0200a8c0@warren> Gosh, I've stayed off this thread BUT! lol My last Chicago-area rockhounding trip, John and I spent 6.5 to 7 hours going to the Keweenah penninusla in Michagan. This is copper country, and there are scads of native copper speciimens, copper associates not found elsewhere, and Lake Superior agate. The problem is, I don't know how much ROCKHOUNDING time you have, and it's a long drive. John and I both would go back to the Keweenah area in an INSTANT if we could. When we went there the first time, it was our first major rockhounding trip. (John bought his first Estwing hammer on the way.) We had NO idea what we were doing, or looking for or ANY thing. The minerals and creek/Superior gravel stuff there though, are amazing. And I WILL go back some day, I WILL. At least I have just a clue of what to look for now. If you have or can find time, check it out! Julie From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jan 4 20:46:07 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 4 20:46:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chicago in april and may??? References: <43B9C2C9.2060803@ptd.net> <008701c611a7$45da41a0$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <43BCA47E.41CA@Tomaszewski.net> Julie, You would be lucky to find any rocks in May in the Keweenaw as it is usually still snowed in.. BTW, it may be 7 hours from Chicago, but it is 12 from Grand Rapids, MI. But I agree it is a GREAT collecting location (and I'm still working thru the couple hundred of pounds of specimens my wife and I collected there last summer). I'm with you and can't wait to get back to the Keewenaw! Kreigh Julie Siebel wrote: > > Gosh, I've stayed off this thread BUT! > > lol > > My last Chicago-area rockhounding trip, John and I spent 6.5 to 7 hours > going to the Keweenah penninusla in Michagan. This is copper country, and > there are scads of native copper speciimens, copper associates not found > elsewhere, and Lake Superior agate. The problem is, I don't know how much > ROCKHOUNDING time you have, and it's a long drive. > > John and I both would go back to the Keweenah area in an INSTANT if we > could. When we went there the first time, it was our first major > rockhounding trip. (John bought his first Estwing hammer on the way.) We had > NO idea what we were doing, or looking for or ANY thing. The minerals and > creek/Superior gravel stuff there though, are amazing. > > And I WILL go back some day, I WILL. At least I have just a clue of what to > look for now. If you have or can find time, check it out! > > Julie From efkern at earthlink.net Wed Jan 4 21:04:09 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Wed Jan 4 21:03:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick References: <43B9C2C9.2060803@ptd.net> <008701c611a7$45da41a0$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <000c01c611b5$77069270$0792b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Howdy, The way Julie just described John's first Estwing hammer, reminded me of when I bought mine. In Keokuck, Iowa in the fall of 1967 as I was driving through on my way to California. I didn't know much about geology then, (or now, but much less then) but did know about Keokuck geodes. So we stopped at a rock shop that had a humongous geode in the window, and talked to the old fellow behind the counter who gave us directions on where to find geodes. So, there, I bought my first Estwing and a broad chisel, and still have it with a somewhat stubby pick end on it. Following the directions, under a bridge in the creek bed were lots of geodes. Funny how we remember when we bought our first Estwing. Anyone else? Erich Kern ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Chicago in april and may??? Gosh, I've stayed off this thread BUT! lol My last Chicago-area rockhounding trip, John and I spent 6.5 to 7 hours going to the Keweenah penninusla in Michagan. This is copper country, and there are scads of native copper speciimens, copper associates not found elsewhere, and Lake Superior agate. The problem is, I don't know how much ROCKHOUNDING time you have, and it's a long drive. John and I both would go back to the Keweenah area in an INSTANT if we could. When we went there the first time, it was our first major rockhounding trip. (John bought his first Estwing hammer on the way.) We had NO idea what we were doing, or looking for or ANY thing. The minerals and creek/Superior gravel stuff there though, are amazing. And I WILL go back some day, I WILL. At least I have just a clue of what to look for now. If you have or can find time, check it out! Julie _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Jan 4 21:31:37 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Jan 4 21:31:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick Message-ID: <010520060531.25573.43BCAF370003ED11000063E5216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Does the story count, if it wasn't an Estwing? I remember my first rock pick well. It was the summer after I finished high school, before starting college, and this was the first time I had a car and a job which gave me a little bit of of money to spend. My first driving-out-of-town rock trip was to Franklin, NJ (I lived in East Brunswick, down in central NJ about 2 hours from there). I visited the Franklin Mineral Museum and the Buckwheat Dump, but before I did so, I stopped at a hardware store in Franklin to look for a rock pick, and bought one there (perhaps, not every town in the U.S. sold regular rock picks at the hardware store, but they did). It wasn't an Estwing, it was the two-piece kind with a metal head and wooden handle. This would have been in 1964. Funny thing, I really don't know if I still have that one or not; I do have at least one pick of that type, but I honestly don't remember if it's my original one. I guess my favorites now are always the Estwing picks with the brown (epoxy-coated leather, or whatever it is made of, I've never quite known?) handle, not the blue plastic ones. On another trip to Franklin, probably my next trip, I tried to buy a UV light there, but couldn't find any shop that sold them in town, so I ordered one by mail order; it was a Black Light Eastern lamp, a metal housing with a separate LW and SW bulb, 110V, I still have it and it still works (but I have newer, better ones that I normally use). Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from "Erich Kern" : -------------- > > Howdy, > > The way Julie just described John's first Estwing hammer, reminded me of when I > bought mine. In Keokuck, Iowa in the fall of 1967 as I was driving through on my > way > to California. I didn't know much about geology then, (or now, but much less > then) > but did know about Keokuck geodes. So we stopped at a rock shop that had a > humongous > geode in the window, and talked to the old fellow behind the counter who gave us > directions on where to find geodes. So, there, I bought my first Estwing and a > broad > chisel, and still have it with a somewhat stubby pick end on it. Following the > directions, under a bridge in the creek bed were lots of geodes. > > Funny how we remember when we bought our first Estwing. Anyone else? > > Erich Kern > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julie Siebel" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 7:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Chicago in april and may??? > > > Gosh, I've stayed off this thread BUT! > > lol > > My last Chicago-area rockhounding trip, John and I spent 6.5 to 7 hours > going to the Keweenah penninusla in Michagan. This is copper country, and > there are scads of native copper speciimens, copper associates not found > elsewhere, and Lake Superior agate. The problem is, I don't know how much > ROCKHOUNDING time you have, and it's a long drive. > > John and I both would go back to the Keweenah area in an INSTANT if we > could. When we went there the first time, it was our first major > rockhounding trip. (John bought his first Estwing hammer on the way.) We had > NO idea what we were doing, or looking for or ANY thing. The minerals and > creek/Superior gravel stuff there though, are amazing. > > And I WILL go back some day, I WILL. At least I have just a clue of what to > look for now. If you have or can find time, check it out! > > Julie > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Thu Jan 5 03:52:31 2006 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Thu Jan 5 04:33:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick References: <43B9C2C9.2060803@ptd.net> <008701c611a7$45da41a0$0200a8c0@warren> <000c01c611b5$77069270$0792b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <004a01c611ee$82c735e0$a9defea9@TOSHIBA> Hi. I remember of keeping my first one shining like silver, together with my fantastic Brunton compass, until a professor, in a field lesson, toke it from my hand and smashed it violently against a hard hornfeld. He said to hate shinning hammers. Very philosofical. >From then to now (20 years latter) the color changed to black, the point is not so sharp, but I find it much niecer than the new ones at the shop. We have to say that the main use of this things is as a scale reference in photos and to give us a professional look. Now, they make them gold plated. For strenght. Armando (Portugal) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erich Kern" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 5:04 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick > > Howdy, > > The way Julie just described John's first Estwing hammer, reminded me of > when I > bought mine. In Keokuck, Iowa in the fall of 1967 as I was driving through > on my way > to California. I didn't know much about geology then, (or now, but much > less then) > but did know about Keokuck geodes. So we stopped at a rock shop that had a > humongous > geode in the window, and talked to the old fellow behind the counter who > gave us > directions on where to find geodes. So, there, I bought my first Estwing > and a broad > chisel, and still have it with a somewhat stubby pick end on it. Following > the > directions, under a bridge in the creek bed were lots of geodes. > > Funny how we remember when we bought our first Estwing. Anyone else? > > Erich Kern > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julie Siebel" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 7:22 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Chicago in april and may??? > > > Gosh, I've stayed off this thread BUT! > > lol > > My last Chicago-area rockhounding trip, John and I spent 6.5 to 7 hours > going to the Keweenah penninusla in Michagan. This is copper country, and > there are scads of native copper speciimens, copper associates not found > elsewhere, and Lake Superior agate. The problem is, I don't know how much > ROCKHOUNDING time you have, and it's a long drive. > > John and I both would go back to the Keweenah area in an INSTANT if we > could. When we went there the first time, it was our first major > rockhounding trip. (John bought his first Estwing hammer on the way.) We > had > NO idea what we were doing, or looking for or ANY thing. The minerals and > creek/Superior gravel stuff there though, are amazing. > > And I WILL go back some day, I WILL. At least I have just a clue of what > to > look for now. If you have or can find time, check it out! > > Julie > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Jan 5 07:13:06 2006 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Jan 5 07:13:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick In-Reply-To: <000c01c611b5$77069270$0792b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <015301c6120a$887575d0$0500a8c0@okapi> I think I must have gotten my pick in the early 60's when I starting 'hounding at the Buckwheat Dump in Franklin (back when you could drive your car right up to the face {and have Nick hit you up to buy something within about 30 seconds!}). The pick is still in use! GcB From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 5 07:21:01 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jan 5 07:21:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chicago in april and may??? In-Reply-To: <005301c611a2$5fd3d490$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: <20060105152101.17127.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The area around Chicago is mainly for fossils- very little in the way of minerals. Mazon Creek is one of the few places you can go on your own. The ESCONI website Gene mentions may also have information on other club field trips, or meetings. ESCONI is probably the largest club in the Chicago area (Earth Science Club Of Northern Illinois) an meets at the College of DuPage, in Glen Ellyn, IL, a suburb about 20 miles west of Chicago. I've belonged to ESCONI for almost 25 years. Jim Daly --- EUGENE HARTSTEIN wrote: > The Lizzardo Museum of Lapidary arts is in Elmhurst > nearby. Spectacular > stuff !!!!!!!http://www.lizzadromuseum.org/ > > The Mazon Creek collecting area is nearby. This is a > world famous fossil > Lagerstaten, where soft bodied animals are preserved > in exquisite detail. > The area may not be open to collecting during the > winter but should be open > in May. The area is managed by Illinois Dept of > Natural Resources. Check > this site for info on getting a day permit to > collect. > http://www.esconi.org/Mazon_Creek_Final.htm > > I lived in the area 10 years ago. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dennis Buffenmyer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 9:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Chicago in april and > may??? > > > > SMKELL45@aol.com wrote: > > > >>Hi. Can't help on the collecting sites but there > is a mineral exhibit at > >>the Field Museum. The Aquarium is within a few > minutes walk of the museum. > >>In the same area there is a planetarium, very > interesting, especially the > >>adjoining exhibits. All three are on a > peninsula about a mile south of > >>Millennium Park. Ask anyone by the lake, they > all are very friendly. > >>smkell > >> > >> > >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >>multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >>--- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>Subscription Services: > >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > >> > >> > >> > > thanks so much for the info!!! sounds like the > penninsula has quite a lot > > to see.... and I plan to.... > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com From pbhewitt at comcast.net Thu Jan 5 07:43:25 2006 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Thu Jan 5 07:43:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick References: <015301c6120a$887575d0$0500a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <004301c6120e$c6951920$6401a8c0@maingear> I got my first Estwing at Gary's Gem Garden in Cherry Hill, NJ. I was on my way to meet Jeri Jones at the Codorus Quarry in York County, PA. As I recall it did me no good that day since I had to use my 7 lb sledge on the big rocks there. The Estwing is always in my car though just in case. Paul in Marietta From albalmer at att.net Thu Jan 5 07:54:20 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jan 5 07:54:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] triping around Avi & Quartzsite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43BD412C.3080802@att.net> Glenn Wimpee wrote: > What are the definitive tests? > Specific gravity, hardness, and if you have the equipment, refractive index, among others. In this case, I compared the weight of a similar-size piece of known CZ (CZ is noticeably heavier) and I tried scratching the pieces with each other (CZ is considerably harder than zircon and will readily scratch it.) There are other tests, but relative density and hardness are easy, and I only had two choices to consider :-) > > From: Al Balmer <albalmer@att.net> > Followup: The "Russian zircon" being sold is definitely CZ, not zircon. From lanny at lrream.com Thu Jan 5 10:27:58 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Jan 5 10:28:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lanny Ream reply on mining rules In-Reply-To: <010420061904.12241.43BC1C27000BCC3800002FD1216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <010420061904.12241.43BC1C27000BCC3800002FD1216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <8ec5eec59dd1674cbcea84e9bc753e8d@lrream.com> Pete, I think the outcome fits perfectly well with my last paragraph about the Virigin Valley claims comments. The way you state things with Rubeck, he did exactly what I wrote. Hauled the lode claimant into court and proved that they did not have a discovery or valid lode claim. If the lode claim is invalid, then the ground is open to location. Of course some people look at that as claim jumping and is some areas, you can still get shot for it! Regards, Lanny On Jan 4, 2006, at 11:04 AM, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > Lanny's discussion of the lode/placer claim legalities, had a notable > example in recent decades in Colorado. The site is the fairly > well-known "Topaz Mountain Gem Mine", located off Matucat Road at the > south end of the Tarryall Mountains. > > ... > Getting back to the lode/placer conflict re. Lanny's letter, this "gem > mine" claim had originally been located as a lode topaz claim, which > was being maintained but not actively worked. The story as I have > heard it is that after a visit to the claim, on which Walt Rubeck was > congenially shown around by the then owner (the widow of the original > filer of the claim), Walt concluded that the deposit was really a > placer--all the topaz being found was transported crystals in loose > gravel of decomposed granite in the valley fill--and he overstaked the > claim as a placer claim. After quite a legal battle in which various > experts testified, in an exception to what Lanny says is the usual > outcome, the lode claim was invalidated and Walt was given the rights > to the deposit as a new placer claim, and that was the basis on which > he held and worked the claim until his death. > ... > Pete Modreski From stu at arcrystalmine.com Thu Jan 5 11:16:35 2006 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (stu@arcrystalmine.com) Date: Thu Jan 5 11:16:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mining Rules References: <010420061904.12241.43BC1C27000BCC3800002FD1216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <8ec5eec59dd1674cbcea84e9bc753e8d@lrream.com> Message-ID: <003501c6122c$8c69c200$6400a8c0@STUART> John C. Nichols,Forest Geologist for the Ouachita National Forest in Hot Springs, Arkansas has put together a very useful web site that might help explain some of the mining rules. http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/ouachita/natural-resources/minerals/index.shtml John is very knowledgeable in this area and might be able to answer some of your question if you would like to call or email him. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Clear Creek & Sweet Surrender Crystal Mines www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From jabac at hal-pc.org Thu Jan 5 14:16:30 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Thu Jan 5 14:18:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick In-Reply-To: <000c01c611b5$77069270$0792b2d1@TheBlackAdder> References: <43B9C2C9.2060803@ptd.net> <008701c611a7$45da41a0$0200a8c0@warren> <000c01c611b5$77069270$0792b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <43BD9ABE.3050104@hal-pc.org> Erich Kern wrote: >Funny how we remember when we bought our first Estwing. Anyone else? > >Erich Kern > > > I remember buying my first one for about $12 ( a real sacrifice at the time) in Lower Manhattan in the early 60's. It was a leather-handled one as the blue type was something for the distant future. I bought it in one of the numerous surplus shops on and around Canal St. I don't know if they are still there, but at the time one could find just about anything from well-used Enfield rifles to new crock pots at bargain prices; lots of cheap military, electronic and other surplus, which was a bonanza for a poverty-stricken college student. It was one of my favorite haunts. I lost that first one on the trail, but soon got another which I still have. The metal plate has come loose on the bottom and some of the leather is missing. It's still out in the shop. The way the leather ones are constructed is that some ovals are punched out of a leather sheet and slotted to fit on the shank of the handle. Then a metal plate is installed on the bottom and peened in place. I'm sure that the leather is then ground and sanded to shape and finished with a lacquer of some sort. I finally got one of the 32 oz blue-handled ones in Colorado a few years back. I keep my "new" one under the driver's seat of the truck; it's always ready for the road though I find the 6# crack hammer and chisels are of more use at mine dumps and outcrops. I also spray most of my tools a Day-Glo orange. Looks a bit ugly but I always know where they are (even that chisel I had to leave buried in a boulder in Utah). But I haven't brought myself to do it to the Estwing. There's just something about a geologist's rock pick... john From kadok at infowest.com Thu Jan 5 14:32:58 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jan 5 14:32:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick In-Reply-To: <004301c6120e$c6951920$6401a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <20060105223257.46F441E3044@alora.infowest.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick I got my first Estwing from a Geology prof. at Southern Utah U. (Was then So. Utah State College) around 1980. Have gotten several others since then as I always take one when I go over to Oz to work in my friend's opal mine in Yowah, and I always leave it behind for them, since they're not available over there.I still keep one in each car. Margaretin Utah >I got my first Estwing at Gary's Gem Garden in Cherry Hill, NJ. I was on my way to meet Jeri Jones at the Codorus Quarry in York County, PA. As I recall it did me no good that day since I had to use my 7 lb sledge on the big rocks there. The Estwing is always in my car though just in case. Paul in Marietta _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gene at fossilnut.com Thu Jan 5 14:58:14 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Thu Jan 5 14:58:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick References: <43B9C2C9.2060803@ptd.net> <008701c611a7$45da41a0$0200a8c0@warren> <000c01c611b5$77069270$0792b2d1@TheBlackAdder> <43BD9ABE.3050104@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <000901c6124b$82b624a0$6400a8c0@hppav> Bought my first Estwing pick about 1969. That's when I got into fossil collecting and there was a local rock shop near the fossil area. I used to stop in there with my wife and we'd buy stuff. Anyway I bought the pick, the kind with the point. Later I would put a hole in my palm trying to split shale with the point. Ouch and Duh all in one shot. After that I bought the one with the flat chisel end, a super long handled one, a Marsh Pick, the long handled scoop/walker, a few sledges, leaf springs, you name it. I still am tempted to buy Estwing tools when I see them at Flea Markets. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "jabac" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick > Erich Kern wrote: > >>Funny how we remember when we bought our first Estwing. Anyone else? >> >>Erich Kern >> >> > I remember buying my first one for about $12 ( a real sacrifice at the > time) in Lower Manhattan in the early 60's. It was a leather-handled one > as the blue type was something for the distant future. I bought it in one > of the numerous surplus shops on and around Canal St. I don't know if they > are still there, but at the time one could find just about anything from > well-used Enfield rifles to new crock pots at bargain prices; lots of > cheap military, electronic and other surplus, which was a bonanza for a > poverty-stricken college student. It was one of my favorite haunts. > > I lost that first one on the trail, but soon got another which I still > have. The metal plate has come loose on the bottom and some of the leather > is missing. It's still out in the shop. The way the leather ones are > constructed is that some ovals are punched out of a leather sheet and > slotted to fit on the shank of the handle. Then a metal plate is installed > on the bottom and peened in place. I'm sure that the leather is then > ground and sanded to shape and finished with a lacquer of some sort. > > I finally got one of the 32 oz blue-handled ones in Colorado a few years > back. > > I keep my "new" one under the driver's seat of the truck; it's always > ready for the road though I find the 6# crack hammer and chisels are of > more use at mine dumps and outcrops. I also spray most of my tools a > Day-Glo orange. Looks a bit ugly but I always know where they are (even > that chisel I had to leave buried in a boulder in Utah). But I haven't > brought myself to do it to the Estwing. There's just something about a > geologist's rock pick... > > > > john > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jan 5 16:02:47 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jan 5 16:02:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick Message-ID: <010620060002.8576.43BDB3A50007460400002180216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Wow, now again, I thought I'd "heard everything", but when Margaret wrote, I always take one when I go over to Oz to work in my friend's opal mine in Yowah, and I always leave it behind for them, since they're not available over there.... I thought with a few minutes of heavy thought I'd figure out the general drift of what she is talking about, but I'm totally stumped. I don't know if these are real places, or some clever literary takeoff on things relating to the Emerald City, or someplace she flies to in tornado or a magic balloon... Makes me wonder how far "over there" from our civilization you have to go, to where the inhabitants cannot buy rock picks. Another continent, another planet, another dimension... ??? : ) Pete M. (And I really DON'T have a clue where Margaret is talking about!) -------------- Original message from "Margaret Malm" : -------------- > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick > > I got my first Estwing from a Geology prof. at Southern Utah U. (Was then > So. Utah State College) around 1980. Have gotten several others since then > as I always take one when I go over to Oz to work in my friend's opal mine > in Yowah, and I always leave it behind for them, since they're not available > over there.I still keep one in each car. > > Margaretin Utah > > >I got my first Estwing at Gary's Gem Garden in Cherry Hill, NJ. I was on > my > way to meet Jeri Jones at the Codorus Quarry in York County, PA. As I > recall it did me no good that day since I had to use my 7 lb sledge on the > big rocks there. The Estwing is always in my car though just in case. > > Paul in Marietta > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jan 5 16:13:51 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jan 5 16:13:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick In-Reply-To: <010620060002.8576.43BDB3A50007460400002180216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <010620060002.8576.43BDB3A50007460400002180216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Oz == Australia aka 'Down Under' Yowah == apparently some town in the Queensland outback: http://ausopals.futureweb.com.au/opalfest.htm BK On 1/5/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Wow, now again, I thought I'd "heard everything", but when Margaret > wrote, > > I always take one when I go over to Oz to work in my friend's opal mine in > Yowah, and I always leave it behind for them, since they're not available > over there.... > > I thought with a few minutes of heavy thought I'd figure out the general > drift of what she is talking about, but I'm totally stumped. I don't know > if these are real places, or some clever literary takeoff on things relating > to the Emerald City, or someplace she flies to in tornado or a magic > balloon... Makes me wonder how far "over there" from our civilization you > have to go, to where the inhabitants cannot buy rock picks. Another > continent, another planet, another dimension... ??? > > : ) Pete M. > (And I really DON'T have a clue where Margaret is talking about!) > > > -------------- Original message from "Margaret Malm" : > -------------- > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick > > > > I got my first Estwing from a Geology prof. at Southern Utah U. (Was > then > > So. Utah State College) around 1980. Have gotten several others since > then > > as I always take one when I go over to Oz to work in my friend's opal > mine > > in Yowah, and I always leave it behind for them, since they're not > available > > over there.I still keep one in each car. > > > > Margaretin Utah > > > > >I got my first Estwing at Gary's Gem Garden in Cherry Hill, NJ. I was > on > > my > > way to meet Jeri Jones at the Codorus Quarry in York County, PA. As I > > recall it did me no good that day since I had to use my 7 lb sledge on > the > > big rocks there. The Estwing is always in my car though just in case. > > > > Paul in Marietta > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Thu Jan 5 16:43:11 2006 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jan 5 16:43:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] cleaning wood (OT) Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060104203303.02518848@incoming.verizon.net> Hi List, Does anyone do or know about cleaning or restoring wood? We received a gift of an old piece of wood, sort of a plaque or plank about 27 x 43 x 1cm. It was purchased (for a few dollars) from the night market in Chang Mai, Thailand, and was purported to be from a temple. It's a bas relief of an elephant, with some very shallow carvings on and surrounding the elephant. The surface looks as if it was never stained, painted or treated in any way, so it is weathered gray and a bit rough. I'd like to clean it up and enhance its appearance. If anyone has any suggestions, or can refer me to a good source of information, please respond off-list. Thanks, Kitty From stu at arcrystalmine.com Thu Jan 5 16:52:41 2006 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (stu@arcrystalmine.com) Date: Thu Jan 5 16:52:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] cleaning wood (OT) References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060104203303.02518848@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <00a401c6125b$802a2f50$6400a8c0@STUART> Hi Kitty, Oxalic acid works great as a wood bleaching agent.... then you could put some kind of sealer on it (lacquer, epoxy, etc..) If you need some oxalic acid, just let me know. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Clear Creek & Sweet Surrender Crystal Mines www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 6:43 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] cleaning wood (OT) > Hi List, > > Does anyone do or know about cleaning or restoring wood? > > We received a gift of an old piece of wood, sort of a plaque or plank > about 27 x 43 x 1cm. It was purchased (for a few dollars) from the night > market in Chang Mai, Thailand, and was purported to be from a temple. > It's a bas relief of an elephant, with some very shallow carvings on and > surrounding the elephant. The surface looks as if it was never stained, > painted or treated in any way, so it is weathered gray and a bit rough. > I'd like to clean it up and enhance its appearance. > > If anyone has any suggestions, or can refer me to a good source of > information, please respond off-list. > > Thanks, Kitty > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 5 17:31:48 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 5 17:31:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick References: <010620060002.8576.43BDB3A50007460400002180216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <43BDC883.34D5@Tomaszewski.net> Yowah, Outback, Queensland, Australia. pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Wow, now again, I thought I'd "heard everything", but when Margaret wrote, > > I always take one when I go over to Oz to work in my friend's opal mine in Yowah, and I always leave it behind for them, since they're not available over there.... > > I thought with a few minutes of heavy thought I'd figure out the general drift of what she is talking about, but I'm totally stumped. I don't know if these are real places, or some clever literary takeoff on things relating to the Emerald City, or someplace she flies to in tornado or a magic balloon... Makes me wonder how far "over there" from our civilization you have to go, to where the inhabitants cannot buy rock picks. Another continent, another planet, another dimension... ??? > > : ) Pete M. > (And I really DON'T have a clue where Margaret is talking about!) > > -------------- Original message from "Margaret Malm" : -------------- > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick > > > > I got my first Estwing from a Geology prof. at Southern Utah U. (Was then > > So. Utah State College) around 1980. Have gotten several others since then > > as I always take one when I go over to Oz to work in my friend's opal mine > > in Yowah, and I always leave it behind for them, since they're not available > > over there.I still keep one in each car. > > > > Margaretin Utah > > > > >I got my first Estwing at Gary's Gem Garden in Cherry Hill, NJ. I was on > > my > > way to meet Jeri Jones at the Codorus Quarry in York County, PA. As I > > recall it did me no good that day since I had to use my 7 lb sledge on the > > big rocks there. The Estwing is always in my car though just in case. > > > > Paul in Marietta From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Thu Jan 5 19:14:32 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Thu Jan 5 19:01:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst Message-ID: <002001c6126f$50c8bb00$eedfc945@feldsparflash> To the List: I was shown a necklace with a stone the owner called green amethyst or prasiolite. It just seems strange to call a green stone- amethyst. Researching the internet- it looks like prasiolite is green brecause it is a heat treated amethyst. Is this true? Is there any natural green amethyst? Carolyn Reynard. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Jan 5 19:09:40 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Jan 5 19:09:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver Message-ID: Gold and silver have been going up for the last 3 years. I like investing in precious metal so I've done a lot of googling -- and reading -- about the industrial demand for silver. I've found a lot of comments about 'Peak Silver', like the one below. Is it true? Any comments or ideas welcome. "For the fourteenth year in a row, fabrication demand outstripped silver supply from mines and scrap sources, by about 60 million ounces. The accumulated silver supply deficit since 1992 is now more than 1.4 billion ounces, which has been satisfied through the disposal of above-ground inventories. In recent years the major source of such inventories has been government stockpiles. In 2004 the US government sold the last of its silver stockpile that had been as large as 2 billion ounces in the 1950s, and the Chinese government sold about 40 million ounces from its stockpile, a sharp reduction from earlier years. With US stockpiles gone and Chinese stockpiles drastically reduced, the only other known government stockpile is in India, which announced in early 2005 that it would sell off its entire 65 million ounce inventory over the next three years at a rate of about 20 million ounces a year." http://www.panamericansilver.com/silvermarket/silver_fundamentals.htm Thanks, Grant From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jan 5 19:20:37 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jan 5 19:20:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interesting question, I would expect world industrial demand for silver to be dropping since film, which used a lot of silver, is on it's way out. Replaced by digital cameras and such. The supergene (is that the right term) deposits have been gone for a long time. BK On 1/5/06, Grant Johnston wrote: > > Gold and silver have been going up for the last 3 years. I like > investing in precious metal so I've done a lot of googling -- and > reading -- about the industrial demand for silver. I've found a lot of > comments about 'Peak Silver', like the one below. Is it true? Any > comments or ideas welcome. > > "For the fourteenth year in a row, fabrication demand outstripped > silver supply from mines and scrap sources, by about 60 million > ounces. The accumulated silver supply deficit since 1992 is now more > than 1.4 billion ounces, which has been satisfied through the disposal > of above-ground inventories. In recent years the major source of such > inventories has been government stockpiles. In 2004 the US government > sold the last of its silver stockpile that had been as large as 2 > billion ounces in the 1950s, and the Chinese government sold about 40 > million ounces from its stockpile, a sharp reduction from earlier > years. With US stockpiles gone and Chinese stockpiles drastically > reduced, the only other known government stockpile is in India, which > announced in early 2005 that it would sell off its entire 65 million > ounce inventory over the next three years at a rate of about 20 > million ounces a year." > http://www.panamericansilver.com/silvermarket/silver_fundamentals.htm > > Thanks, > > Grant > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Thu Jan 5 20:09:22 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Thu Jan 5 20:09:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First rock pick, favorite rock pick, Oz Message-ID: <20060106040922.42116.qmail@web34615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: Pete, Oz is Austrailia, and she was talking about opal mines in the outback (I think). I got my first Estwing in Colorado, in a rock shop north of Salida, I can't remember the name of it. I bought one with a plastic handle, and got Dan one with a leather handle. He still has his. Mine is on the overflow cut for Lake Monroe, near Harrodsburg IN, where it fell from my pack, never to be found, a couple of summers ago. My favorite rock hammer now, tho, is a flat chisel ended one I found in the woods near the Harvard Quarry in Maine. I like the plastic handled ones better, Dan's leather handle has started to shrink. Does anyone know how to fix that? I'll be in Tucson the last couple of days of January, staying at the Ramada Foothills Jan 30-Feb 1. Call me if you get to town then, we can get together for SW food and beer. JR --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jan 5 20:31:02 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jan 5 20:30:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First rock pick, favorite rock pick, Oz References: <20060106040922.42116.qmail@web34615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43BDF26D.54B9@Tomaszewski.net> J. R. Hodel wrote: > I like the plastic handled ones better, Dan's leather handle has started to shrink. Does anyone know how to fix that? JR, Neat's-Foot Oil restores most leather items in my experience. Kreigh From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Thu Jan 5 21:15:54 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Thu Jan 5 21:12:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst In-Reply-To: <002001c6126f$50c8bb00$eedfc945@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <82DBF046-7E73-11DA-8FC7-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi Carolyn Amethyst by definition is purple colored quartz so there can be no such thing as green amethyst, natural or otherwise. Almost all commercial citrine (yellow to orange yellow) is "burnt" i.e. heat treated amethyst. Either before the yellow color is attained, or after, i.e. if the heating is carried on longer (I don't recall which) there can be a green phase. As far as I recall not all amethyst will burn to a green phase; it depends on the specific occurrence. Cheers, Hans Durstling getting Tucson nerves in Moncton, Canada ========== On Thursday, January 5, 2006, at 11:14 PM, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > To the List: I was shown a necklace with a stone the owner called > green amethyst or prasiolite. It just seems strange to call a green > stone- amethyst. > Researching the internet- it looks like prasiolite is green brecause > it is a heat treated amethyst. Is this true? Is there any natural > green amethyst? > Carolyn Reynard. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jan 6 03:55:20 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jan 6 03:55:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst Message-ID: <010620061155.20644.43BE5AA80002FFFC000050A4216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Carolyn, I also understand that some (not all) amethyst can be turned green by the right kind of heat treatment; it used to be called "greened amethyst". There isn't any natural, gemmy crystalline quartz of that color. Pete -------------- Original message from "Carolyn Reynard" : -------------- > To the List: I was shown a necklace with a stone the owner called green > amethyst or prasiolite. It just seems strange to call a green stone- amethyst. > Researching the internet- it looks like prasiolite is green brecause it is a > heat treated amethyst. Is this true? Is there any natural green amethyst? > Carolyn Reynard. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 6 04:06:11 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 6 04:06:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst In-Reply-To: <002001c6126f$50c8bb00$eedfc945@feldsparflash> Message-ID: Hi Carolyn, amethyst and prasEolite (prasem seems to be the correct term) are both quartz varieties. The coloring agent in amethyst is iron strangely enough. You'd expect iron to color minerals either yellow to brown or green depending on the iron being trivalent or divalent (or black if both are present). Sometimes you can even find sprays of goethite in amethyst and often is covered with iron oxides. Prasem is quartzite that is colored by nickel which gives it a leek-green color. Since prasem is a rock (not a mineral) and by far less common and appreciated as gemstone than amethyst, there are no stringent criteria that must be met in order to call a green quartzite "praseolite" or "prasem". So, the nickel has become somewhat "optional" and some dealers tend to name any green quartz or quartzite praseolite but as far as I know, nickel is a conditio sine qua non. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Carolyn Reynard Verzonden: vrijdag 6 januari 2006 4:15 Aan: Rockhounds Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst Urgentie: Hoog To the List: I was shown a necklace with a stone the owner called green amethyst or prasiolite. It just seems strange to call a green stone- amethyst. Researching the internet- it looks like prasiolite is green brecause it is a heat treated amethyst. Is this true? Is there any natural green amethyst? Carolyn Reynard. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Fri Jan 6 04:42:03 2006 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Fri Jan 6 04:42:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver References: Message-ID: <00b201c612be$98d8a960$635fe842@Titans> Hello Mr, Krammer, Sorry not so, the Silver supply in the Kellogg Idaho Silver/lead district stopped due to the low price for silver, and not because it was depleted, they have not even touched the biggest lode under those mountains yet, shafts are flooded but can be brought into service again rather quickly I have been told by a miner that worked there for 22 years and was one of the last to leave ahead of the 130 degree f. water when the pumps were shut down. . Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver Interesting question, I would expect world industrial demand for silver to be dropping since film, which used a lot of silver, is on it's way out. Replaced by digital cameras and such. The supergene (is that the right term) deposits have been gone for a long time. BK On 1/5/06, Grant Johnston wrote: > > Gold and silver have been going up for the last 3 years. I like > investing in precious metal so I've done a lot of googling -- and > reading -- about the industrial demand for silver. I've found a lot of > comments about 'Peak Silver', like the one below. Is it true? Any > comments or ideas welcome. > > "For the fourteenth year in a row, fabrication demand outstripped > silver supply from mines and scrap sources, by about 60 million > ounces. The accumulated silver supply deficit since 1992 is now more > than 1.4 billion ounces, which has been satisfied through the disposal > of above-ground inventories. In recent years the major source of such > inventories has been government stockpiles. In 2004 the US government > sold the last of its silver stockpile that had been as large as 2 > billion ounces in the 1950s, and the Chinese government sold about 40 > million ounces from its stockpile, a sharp reduction from earlier > years. With US stockpiles gone and Chinese stockpiles drastically > reduced, the only other known government stockpile is in India, which > announced in early 2005 that it would sell off its entire 65 million > ounce inventory over the next three years at a rate of about 20 > million ounces a year." > http://www.panamericansilver.com/silvermarket/silver_fundamentals.htm > > Thanks, > > Grant > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jan 6 05:24:36 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jan 6 05:24:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver In-Reply-To: <00b201c612be$98d8a960$635fe842@Titans> References: <00b201c612be$98d8a960$635fe842@Titans> Message-ID: That wasn't a supergene deposit tho, was it? The old mines back in the 1800's had silver concentrations up in the double digit percent range. IIRC some were 30-40% silver. I had the impression that current mines were more in the few ounces per ton range. I may be using the supergene term incorrectly, I picked it up from on of McPhee's books. BK On 1/6/06, Wayne Rasmussen wrote: > > Hello Mr, Krammer, > > Sorry not so, the Silver supply in the Kellogg Idaho Silver/lead district > stopped > due to the low price for silver, and not because it was depleted, > they have not even touched the biggest lode under those mountains > yet, shafts are flooded but can be brought into service again rather > quickly > I have been told by a miner that worked there for 22 years and was one of > the last to leave ahead of the 130 degree f. water when the pumps were > shut > down. > . > Wayne > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Fri Jan 6 06:55:53 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Fri Jan 6 06:55:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003001c612d1$37e2c0b0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> Grant: I'm not sure what your question really aims for; but I'll take a crack at some of the aspects. Precious metals are primarily responding to the uncertainties in the world market; that is, war, terrorism, oil shortages, currency fluctuations and threats of inflation. If and when these uncertainties come under control the metals will settle into a stable range. All of the precious metals have higher consumption levels than mining provides and have been in this condition for years. Gold and silver have been in this condition for well over a decade, as I remember. Why? Many of the world's countries have been moving away from gold/silver standards and are selling off their hoards. If these hoards were dumped on the market the precious metals values would plummet; so they are released gradually. There are still hoards a plenty out there. Add to this, every time the precious metals rise in value people come out of the woodwork to sell old items from their attics. Back when gold reached $800 an ounce I sold my HS ring. I didn't wear it and I was happy to put it's value to work elsewhere. Plus, as mentioned by others; mining for precious metals is driven by relative value. We are not short of reserves in the ground. We lack the financial return to pursue many of those reserves. As the metals rise higher in price companies will review viability of mining specifically for the precious stuff. I live in Spotsylvania Virginia surrounded by small gold mines... Well, small in that very few were developed beyond pick and shovel. The few that were developed identified very large reserves. The reserves are low-grade and centered in populated neighborhoods; but they are substantial. When it comes to building a cyanide leach plant for extracting the gold it will take a high value to drive this; though I will not preclude a company trucking ore to a leach field elsewhere. There are similar reserves in North Carolina and Georgia in the East; and through many of the states out West. Basically the metals are in the ground and can be available for a price. So where are values going? Above all they are risky as long as countries are putting gold/silver/platinum reserves on the market. The real value though is well north of where they have been. Especially as demand in the orient (India, China, Japan, Korea) continues to climb. India where people wear their bank accounts is especially impacting gold. Is Gold a steal at $600 an oz? Frankly, I do not know and I've seen financial analyst reports that claim pro and con. The word on Wall Street is that with all of this volatility traders will again maintain precious metal portfolios. The key word here is volatility; profit is made when metals change value, not when they are stable. Keep your investments simple sensible and within reason. Ted -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:25 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver That wasn't a supergene deposit tho, was it? The old mines back in the 1800's had silver concentrations up in the double digit percent range. IIRC some were 30-40% silver. I had the impression that current mines were more in the few ounces per ton range. I may be using the supergene term incorrectly, I picked it up from on of McPhee's books. BK On 1/6/06, Wayne Rasmussen wrote: > > Hello Mr, Krammer, > > Sorry not so, the Silver supply in the Kellogg Idaho Silver/lead district > stopped > due to the low price for silver, and not because it was depleted, > they have not even touched the biggest lode under those mountains > yet, shafts are flooded but can be brought into service again rather > quickly > I have been told by a miner that worked there for 22 years and was one of > the last to leave ahead of the 130 degree f. water when the pumps were > shut > down. > . > Wayne > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From danielz at acmenet.net Fri Jan 6 07:06:13 2006 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Fri Jan 6 07:06:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst Message-ID: <000301c612d2$bc4db840$6401a8c0@M1Garand> >From Sinkankas "Gemstone & Mineral Data Book:" "Green quartz is heat-treated amethyst from certain deposits, principally from one in Brazil. Excellent green and blue synthetic quartz crystals of large size have recently appeared on the market from the USSR." (First printing of the book was 1972). No, it really shouldn't be called green amethyst any more than citrine is called yellow amethyst (much citrine is also heat-treated amethyst). Prasiolite is a more-or-less accepted name. We were told by one expert that the green is caused by traces of nickel in the amethyst, but I've never seen that explanation in the literature myself. -dan z- - - Protect your civil rights! Let the politicians know how you feel. Join or donate to the NRA today! http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jan 6 07:13:24 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jan 6 07:13:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst Message-ID: <010620061513.9561.43BE891300049F1100002559216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Carolyn, Axel, & the List, Those names used for green quartz are confusing, and I've wrestled with sorting them out before. Chrysoprase is massive, cryptocrystalline, vivid-green quartz, colored by nickel. Just "prase" has always been a name for "leek-green" (which is kind of a duller, yellower, or grayer green than chrysoprase) cryptocrystalline quartz, which does not contain nickel and does not have the vivid, attractive color of chrysoprase. It's generally massive, like chalcedony, and is translucent or opaque rather than transparent and facetable. Prase is probably colored by inclusions of any of various iron-containing silicate minerals, such as chlorite. True gem quality, transparent, green quartz is pretty much unknown naturally, and as we've said, what one may see has almost certainly been produced by heat treatment of amethyst. I think I've summarized this all correctly! Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > Hi Carolyn, > > amethyst and prasEolite (prasem seems to be the correct term) are both > quartz varieties. > The coloring agent in amethyst is iron strangely enough. You'd expect iron > to color minerals either yellow to brown or green depending on the iron > being trivalent or divalent (or black if both are present). Sometimes you > can even find sprays of goethite in amethyst and often is covered with iron > oxides. > > Prasem is quartzite that is colored by nickel which gives it a leek-green > color. Since prasem is a rock (not a mineral) and by far less common and > appreciated as gemstone than amethyst, there are no stringent criteria that > must be met in order to call a green quartzite "praseolite" or "prasem". > So, the nickel has become somewhat "optional" and some dealers tend to name > any green quartz or quartzite praseolite but as far as I know, nickel is a > conditio sine qua non. > > Cheers > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Carolyn Reynard > Verzonden: vrijdag 6 januari 2006 4:15 > Aan: Rockhounds > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst > Urgentie: Hoog > > > To the List: I was shown a necklace with a stone the owner called green > amethyst or prasiolite. It just seems strange to call a green stone- > amethyst. > Researching the internet- it looks like prasiolite is green brecause it is a > heat treated amethyst. Is this true? Is there any natural green amethyst? > Carolyn Reynard. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Fri Jan 6 07:56:12 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (michael schmidt) Date: Fri Jan 6 07:56:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst References: <82DBF046-7E73-11DA-8FC7-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <012601c612d9$b7d3ebc0$034c5318@johnny> misnomers such as this are constantly used in gemstone marketing.....most recently "pink emerald" to describe morganite. if it ain't green, it ain't an emerald....unfortunately, people use these descriptions all the time Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 9:15 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst > Hi Carolyn > > Amethyst by definition is purple colored quartz so there can be no such > thing as green amethyst, natural or otherwise. Almost all commercial > citrine (yellow to orange yellow) is "burnt" i.e. heat treated > amethyst. Either before the yellow color is attained, or after, i.e. if > the heating is carried on longer (I don't recall which) there can be a > green phase. As far as I recall not all amethyst will burn to a green > phase; it depends on the specific occurrence. > > Cheers, > Hans Durstling > getting Tucson nerves in Moncton, Canada > > > ========== > On Thursday, January 5, 2006, at 11:14 PM, Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > > To the List: I was shown a necklace with a stone the owner called > > green amethyst or prasiolite. It just seems strange to call a green > > stone- amethyst. > > Researching the internet- it looks like prasiolite is green brecause > > it is a heat treated amethyst. Is this true? Is there any natural > > green amethyst? > > Carolyn Reynard. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jan 6 08:07:26 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jan 6 08:07:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing... and Oz Message-ID: <010620061607.29290.43BE95BE000471020000726A216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear List, I just wanted to acknowledge, now suitably humbled but better informed, my chagrin at not having known what "Oz" is. Thanks to several of you for straightening me out. I'm sure I must have heard this in the past, but (never having been there and all that), it obviously just totally disappeared beneath the horizon of my mental radar (that happens as one gets older, you know). Browsing what's on the web, I see that there are loads of websites about Australia, calling it "Oz" in one way or another. Dumb me. I see also that Yowah is, indeed, a town in the Queensland outback where opal is found; specifically, the home of the famous "Yowah Nuts", ironstone concretions (not really nuts) with opal centers. But hey, I DID already even know that way out in the boondocks in Aus-land is known as "Outer Woop Woop". I even have a bottle here of Woop Woop wine, a shiraz from SE Australia (already drank it, it was good, just the bottle left with its cute label). And, moving to Western Australia, mookaite is one of my absolute favorite rocks! cheers, from one not-so-smart (but now a little bit more informed) list reader, Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Jan 6 08:55:43 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Jan 6 08:43:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst References: <000301c612d2$bc4db840$6401a8c0@M1Garand> Message-ID: <000b01c612e2$09955bd0$eedfc945@feldsparflash> Thanks to all of you who responded to my question about green amethyst. The stone I saw was faceted, transparent, and light green. Therefore very likely a heat treated purple amethyst. Too bad the seller didn't disclose it was heat treated. However, this woman was very happy with her stone. The only problem might be the price she paid ( which I don't know) since she was told it was very rare and had unusual powers. In this case perhaps the power to be more costly. Thanks again ! Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Z" To: "Rockhound list danielz frm" Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst > >From Sinkankas "Gemstone & Mineral Data Book:" > > "Green quartz is heat-treated amethyst from certain deposits, principally > from one in Brazil. Excellent green and blue synthetic quartz crystals of > large size have recently appeared on the market from the USSR." (First > printing of the book was 1972). > > No, it really shouldn't be called green amethyst any more than citrine is > called yellow amethyst (much citrine is also heat-treated amethyst). > Prasiolite is a more-or-less accepted name. > > We were told by one expert that the green is caused by traces of nickel in > the amethyst, but I've never seen that explanation in the literature myself. > > -dan z- > > > - - > Protect your civil rights! > Let the politicians know how you feel. > Join or donate to the NRA today! > http://membership.nrahq.org/default.asp?campaignid=XR014887 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From kadok at infowest.com Fri Jan 6 09:09:34 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Jan 6 09:09:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick In-Reply-To: <010620060002.8576.43BDB3A50007460400002180216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <20060106170930.0E3FAA1024@marbella.infowest.com> Pete-- "Oz" is Australia. Yowah is in the "outback" (interior), in Queensland. The Yowah "nuts" found there are a type of boulder opal. OK? Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 5:03 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick Wow, now again, I thought I'd "heard everything", but when Margaret wrote, I always take one when I go over to Oz to work in my friend's opal mine in Yowah, and I always leave it behind for them, since they're not available over there.... I thought with a few minutes of heavy thought I'd figure out the general drift of what she is talking about, but I'm totally stumped. I don't know if these are real places, or some clever literary takeoff on things relating to the Emerald City, or someplace she flies to in tornado or a magic balloon... Makes me wonder how far "over there" from our civilization you have to go, to where the inhabitants cannot buy rock picks. Another continent, another planet, another dimension... ??? : ) Pete M. (And I really DON'T have a clue where Margaret is talking about!) -------------- Original message from "Margaret Malm" : -------------- > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] First Estwing Rock Pick > > I got my first Estwing from a Geology prof. at Southern Utah U. (Was then > So. Utah State College) around 1980. Have gotten several others since then > as I always take one when I go over to Oz to work in my friend's opal mine > in Yowah, and I always leave it behind for them, since they're not available > over there.I still keep one in each car. > > Margaretin Utah > > >I got my first Estwing at Gary's Gem Garden in Cherry Hill, NJ. I was on > my > way to meet Jeri Jones at the Codorus Quarry in York County, PA. As I > recall it did me no good that day since I had to use my 7 lb sledge on the > big rocks there. The Estwing is always in my car though just in case. > > Paul in Marietta > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jennifer at sunriseinstitute.org Fri Jan 6 10:26:06 2006 From: jennifer at sunriseinstitute.org (jennifer isham) Date: Fri Jan 6 10:25:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Mineral Clubs - Northern Illinois In-Reply-To: <20060106170930.0E3FAA1024@marbella.infowest.com> Message-ID: Have been trying to gather together up-to-date meeting information on the rock and mineral clubs that meet in Northern Illinois. Have been checking websites and finding out-of-date information, disconnected phones, etc. Would appreciate hearing from anyone on the list who has up-to-date info on meeting dates and times, and contact information for who I can call to find out more info about the group. Feel free to contact me offline at wisdomofstones@hotmail.com . Thanks. jennifer From tam2819 at cox.net Fri Jan 6 10:51:06 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Fri Jan 6 10:51:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Mineral Clubs - Northern Illinois In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0bc4fde4edb62f1951cf6297db90b340@cox.net> Jennifer, Best source is the AMFS Web Site, American Federation of Mineralogical Societies. > http://www.amfed.org/ Terrie From danielz at acmenet.net Fri Jan 6 11:04:38 2006 From: danielz at acmenet.net (Dan Z) Date: Fri Jan 6 11:04:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst Message-ID: <000301c612f4$0afd7220$6401a8c0@M1Garand> This reminds me of the "red emerald," really red beryl, from Utah. Somebody (Jeweler's Board of Trade?) sued on that one because emerald isn't red, and the mine had to stop marketing it as red emerald. Perhaps that will happen again with "pink emerald." -dan z- ________ misnomers such as this are constantly used in gemstone marketing.....most recently "pink emerald" to describe morganite. if it ain't green, it ain't an emerald....unfortunately, people use these descriptions all the time From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jan 6 14:07:35 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jan 6 14:07:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst In-Reply-To: <010620061513.9561.43BE891300049F1100002559216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Hi Pete, yep... my mistake. "Prase" the powers that be for people with a better memory than mine ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net Verzonden: vrijdag 6 januari 2006 16:13 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst Carolyn, Axel, & the List, Those names used for green quartz are confusing, and I've wrestled with sorting them out before. Chrysoprase is massive, cryptocrystalline, vivid-green quartz, colored by nickel. Just "prase" has always been a name for "leek-green" (which is kind of a duller, yellower, or grayer green than chrysoprase) cryptocrystalline quartz, which does not contain nickel and does not have the vivid, attractive color of chrysoprase. It's generally massive, like chalcedony, and is translucent or opaque rather than transparent and facetable. Prase is probably colored by inclusions of any of various iron-containing silicate minerals, such as chlorite. True gem quality, transparent, green quartz is pretty much unknown naturally, and as we've said, what one may see has almost certainly been produced by heat treatment of amethyst. I think I've summarized this all correctly! Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > Hi Carolyn, > > amethyst and prasEolite (prasem seems to be the correct term) are both > quartz varieties. > The coloring agent in amethyst is iron strangely enough. You'd expect iron > to color minerals either yellow to brown or green depending on the iron > being trivalent or divalent (or black if both are present). Sometimes you > can even find sprays of goethite in amethyst and often is covered with iron > oxides. > > Prasem is quartzite that is colored by nickel which gives it a leek-green > color. Since prasem is a rock (not a mineral) and by far less common and > appreciated as gemstone than amethyst, there are no stringent criteria that > must be met in order to call a green quartzite "praseolite" or "prasem". > So, the nickel has become somewhat "optional" and some dealers tend to name > any green quartz or quartzite praseolite but as far as I know, nickel is a > conditio sine qua non. > > Cheers > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Carolyn Reynard > Verzonden: vrijdag 6 januari 2006 4:15 > Aan: Rockhounds > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst > Urgentie: Hoog > > > To the List: I was shown a necklace with a stone the owner called green > amethyst or prasiolite. It just seems strange to call a green stone- > amethyst. > Researching the internet- it looks like prasiolite is green brecause it is a > heat treated amethyst. Is this true? Is there any natural green amethyst? > Carolyn Reynard. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From earlrock at nctv.com Fri Jan 6 17:42:38 2006 From: earlrock at nctv.com (Earl) Date: Fri Jan 6 17:42:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Micromounters Winter Gathering Message-ID: <007201c6132b$a54bd650$6401a8c0@earlbasement> Folks, time is getting close for the Winter Gathering in Dowling Park, FL. Dates are Feb 24 & 25. There are still some rooms left at the lodge, and an additional 5 rooms are available in the Jones Cottage. The link below will give more details, and links to the Village Lodge. Just remember, if you call for reservations to tell them that you are with the Micromounters otherwise you may be informed that there is no space left. http://home.nctv.com/earlrock/wintermicro/index.html regards to all, Earl --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bouldercreek at shaw.ca Fri Jan 6 18:43:44 2006 From: bouldercreek at shaw.ca (Chuck Anderson) Date: Fri Jan 6 18:43:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 6 References: <200601070203.k0723H0P010467@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000201c61334$2dbd84e0$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> Hi All... Up here in Thunder Bay Ontario we have a mine that produces natural green quartz, along with amethyst I've seen some that was facet grade but not much and never in sizes that would produce a stone over 5 c We do have a mine that produces some of the finest dark purple that rivals Siberian.This material has a very high concentration of chromium Doug Turret of Turret Design faceted a stone and is featured in January"s L J. Just my 2 cents worth http://bouldercreek.cjb.net Thanks All Chuck Anderson From kahako at verizon.net Fri Jan 6 19:00:36 2006 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jan 6 19:00:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: green quartz (was) Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <000201c61334$2dbd84e0$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> References: <200601070203.k0723H0P010467@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <000201c61334$2dbd84e0$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060106165430.0251f498@incoming.verizon.net> Thanks for the information, Chuck. Here's a reminder to those on the Digest format to please change the title in the Subject line to fit your topic. Aloha, Kitty (List Admin Team) At 04:43 PM 1/6/2006, you wrote: >Hi All... Up here in Thunder Bay Ontario we have a mine that produces >natural green quartz, along with amethyst I've seen some that was facet >grade but not much and never in sizes that would produce a stone over 5 c >We do have a mine that produces some of the finest dark purple that rivals >Siberian.This material has a very high concentration of chromium >Doug Turret of Turret Design faceted a stone and is featured in January"s >L J. Just my 2 cents worth >http://bouldercreek.cjb.net > Thanks All Chuck Anderson From bova at mindspring.com Fri Jan 6 20:20:37 2006 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Fri Jan 6 20:19:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wish my memory were better right now.. I've been trying to find a note from Mark Liccini a few years back about 'neon green' quartz, but couldn't put my fingers on it. There was nothing in his treatment notes specifically about producing green quartz, and definitely nothing about treating amethyst to get greens. He worked mainly with Brazilian material, and I did find one reference to green quartz. It came about as a by-product of heating a particular kind of smoky quartz to get citrine, which sometimes also produced a yellowish green material, that I think was also called green/gold quartz. Anyone remember if the 'neon green' came from treating smoky or colorless quartz? Carol Carol J. Bova On Friday, January 6, 2006, at 05:07 PM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Pete, > > yep... my mistake. "Prase" the powers that be for people with a better > memory than mine ;-))) > > Axel From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Fri Jan 6 21:12:10 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Fri Jan 6 21:08:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about Green Amethyst In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <282128B8-7F3C-11DA-BD04-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> This is not totally on topic but then we seem to be wandering a bit anyway - and enjoyably at that - around the world of green and other quartzes. In any event in one of my old gemological magazines from the late 1940's there is an article by Academician Fersman in which he mentions that the peasants in Siberia, in order to give their amethyst a richer dark color, would bake it inside a loaf of rye bread. Back on a bit closer to topic I have some little-finger size quartz crystals which were sold to me a few years ago by a family from Russia (they had come to Canada just after the iron curtain came down) as being natural citrine. These are a noticeably greenish yellow although yellow is still the dominant hue. Also, last year at Tucson a family of pegmatite miners from Brazil was selling what they called "lemon" quartz - somewhat lightish golden yellow with slight hint of green. Some were lovely great huge fist size clear chunks. Unfortunately this color was not natural but induced by radiation treatment. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada (soon to be at the Alpha Supply booth in the Electric Park Show at Tucson - come say hello) =============== On Saturday, January 7, 2006, at 12:20 AM, Carol J. Bova wrote: > Wish my memory were better right now.. I've been trying to find a note > from Mark Liccini a few years back about 'neon green' quartz, but > couldn't put my fingers on it. There was nothing in his treatment > notes specifically about producing green quartz, and definitely > nothing about treating amethyst to get greens. He worked mainly with > Brazilian material, and I did find one reference to green quartz. It > came about as a by-product of heating a particular kind of smoky > quartz to get citrine, which sometimes also produced a yellowish green > material, that I think was also called green/gold quartz. > > Anyone remember if the 'neon green' came from treating smoky or > colorless quartz? > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > > On Friday, January 6, 2006, at 05:07 PM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > >> Hi Pete, >> >> yep... my mistake. "Prase" the powers that be for people with a better >> memory than mine ;-))) >> >> Axel > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Jan 7 09:13:22 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Jan 7 09:15:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorspar district trip and mineral show at the Clement Museum Message-ID: <001b01c613ad$ea72f470$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Hello, A second field trip to the fluorspar district in Kentucky will be organized for April 1 & 2. The registration fee will be $25 as before, with funds going to rent a track hoe. For traffic logisitics and collector safety, we will limit the number of participates to about 35. Bill Frazer will dig on the dumps and vein of the Columbia mine which contain galena, smithsonite, some fluorite, quartz, sphalerite, etc. and the Eureka prospects that contain a bedding replacement deposit with crystals of fluorite, calcite, galena, quartz, smithsonite and sphalerite. Everything from museum-size specimens to micromounts might be found. We will also go to the Babb-Barnes mill complex, the Hutson zinc mine, and the Lafayette mine for collecting and viewing historical mine facilities. An evening at the Clement Mineral Museum will be held as well. Contact me if you would like to participate. I don't know whether the Clement Museum or I will handle the registration at this moment. The Clement Museum will hold its first Mineral, Fossil and Jewelry Show on June 2 and 3, 2006. It will be an indoor show at Fohs Hall, adjacent to the Clement Museum. This will be the first time they have had a fundraiser of this type. Since I have organized the Falls Fossil Festival for the last 11 years, I am helping coordinate this effort. I can use help -- especially getting word out to rock hounds! In addition to the vendors, there will be trips to several mines in the area. (Since some may not be able to attend the April collecting trip, here is another opportunity!) A fundraising auction is planned. If you have some high-quality specimens to donate, it would be tax deductable. If anyone is interested in being a dealer, let me know. I am still working with the museum to determine the space sizes and cost. This would be a great opportunity to become involved and help save the Clement Mineral Museum! Best regards, Alan Goldstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Sat Jan 7 09:20:42 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sat Jan 7 09:21:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AZ in January In-Reply-To: <200509062119.j86LJGpQ030055@outmx023.isp.belgacom.be> References: <200509062119.j86LJGpQ030055@outmx023.isp.belgacom.be> Message-ID: <43BFF86A.1070905@att.net> Rik Dillen wrote: > Thanks, Grant, > > I have been a couple of times to Quarzsite, but I also had the occasion to go to two shows in one week-end in the > neighbourhood of Tempe (also in Ja nuary). Does anyone know the 2006 dates of these shows ? > Thanks and greetings, Rik, I don't know if you ever got an answer to this, and I forgot about it. Jan 1 - Feb 28, Desert Gardens, Quartzsite Jan 6 - Jan 15, Tyson Wells, Quartzsite Jan 6 - Jan 15, Flagg show, Mesa Community College, 1833 W. Southern Ave, Mesa, AZ Jan 13 - Jan 15, Arizona Rockfest, Tempe Diablo Stadium, 2200 W Alameda Dr, Tempe, AZ Jan 13 - Jan 15, Gila County show, Gila County Fair Building, 3 miles N of junction US 60-70, Globe, AZ. I'll post more AZ shows later. From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Sat Jan 7 17:18:49 2006 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 7 17:18:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Source of the "BOOMS" in NC!!! Message-ID: Please check out the copied and pasted herein Earthquake email I received for Dec 14th. North Carolina had a 3.5 quake..not sure of much more about it..but it could be the source of the "explosive" sounds and shaking of the house. Finally an answer of sorts. Thanks..EQ info below: Jackie U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR NO. 5-348 GEOLOGICAL SURVEY DEC 14, 2005 NEIC/WDCS-D QUICK EPICENTER DETERMINATIONS UTC TIME LAT LONG DEP GS MAGS Q SD GAP STA F-E REGION AND COMMENTS HRMNSEC MB Msz USED DEC 07 001616.8* 12.635N 88.598W 74? 4.5 C 1.0 190 19 OFFSHORE EL SALVADOR 011927.3& 38.230N 25.300E 43 6 AEGEAN SEA. . MD 3.1 (ATH). 021929.0* 1.438N 97.238E 30G 4.9 B 1.2 93 14 NIAS REGION, INDONESIA 024654.0* 32.969N 141.555E 39* 4.5 B 1.0 136 20 IZU ISLANDS, JAPAN REGION 041801.5* 39.264N 143.325E 41 4.8 B 1.1 182 30 OFF E COAST OF HONSHU, JAPAN 055625.1& 37.700N 20.950E 22 4 IONIAN SEA. . MD 3.3 (ATH). 083815.0 0.179N 97.269E 2? 5.1 C 0.9 68 52 NIAS REGION, INDONESIA 140321.7& 18.070N 67.073W 17 9 MONA PASSAGE. . MD 2.5 (RSPR). 151404.9 14.868N 92.227W 68D 4.8 A 1.0 193 47 CHIAPAS, MEX. MD 5.3 (CASC). 161855.2& 37.960S 176.160E 277 48 NORTH ISLAND OF NEW ZEALAND. . MG 4.3 (WEL). 180414.0& 37.420S 177.720E 112 17 OFF E CST N ISL, NZ . MG 3.7 (WEL). 191151.3& 40.116N 24.089E 8 21 AEGEAN SEA. . ML 3.5 (THE), 3.5 (ATH). 192945.8 35.862N 82.380W 5G A 0.5 100 10 NORTH CAROLINA. mbLg 2.8 (GS). Felt in Yancey County. 193800.4& 37.700N 20.920E 15 6 IONIAN SEA. . MD 3.4 (ATH). 211843.7& 18.836N 67.637W 39 6 MONA PASSAGE. . MD 3.3 (RSPR). 212101.4& 36.150N 21.130E 67 12 SOUTHERN GREECE. . 221914.1& 18.802N 67.126W 47 8 MONA PASSAGE. . MD 3.0 (RSPR). 233254.2 30.026S 177.642W 38D 6.0 6.4 A 0.8 56 156 KERMADEC ISLANDS, NEW ZEALAND. MW 6.4 (HRV), 6.3 (GS). ME 5.9 (GS). Broadband Source Parameters (GS): Dep 21 km; Radiated energy 1.5*10**13 Nm. Moment Tensor (GS): Dep 22 km; Principal axes (scale 10**18 Nm): (T) Val=3.21, Plg=79, Azm=29; (N) Val=0.16, Plg=5, Azm=144; (P) Val=-3.36, Plg=10, Azm=235; Best double couple: Mo=3.3*10**18 Nm; NP1: Strike=331, Dip=35, Slip=98; NP2: Strike=141, Dip=55, Slip=84. Centroid, Moment Tensor (HRV): Centroid origin time 23:32:56.8; Lat 29.97 S; Lon 177.11 W; Dep 20.1 km; Half-duration 3.8 sec; Principal axes (scale 10**18 Nm): (T) Val=4.69, Plg=67, Azm=298; (N) Val=0.36, Plg=4, Azm=199; (P) Val=-5.05, Plg=23, Azm=108; Best double couple: Mo=4.9*10**18 Nm; NP1: Strike=190, Dip=22, Slip=80; NP2: Strike=21, Dip=68, Slip=94. golden co usa 2005 DEC 14 12:11 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Sat Jan 7 17:31:21 2006 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 7 17:31:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Booms..Mistake.. Message-ID: <78.182fe68.30f1c569@aol.com> My apologies..I just found my original email to our local news station..it was NOT the 14th, but the 20th of December, so that shoots down my EQ theory. Back to the drawing board. My apologies again for starting this thread up again! Jackie (slinking back to her corner) In a message dated 1/7/2006 8:19:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, CRAZYDOVE@aol.com writes: Please check out the copied and pasted herein Earthquake email I received for Dec 14th. North Carolina had a 3.5 quake..not sure of much more about it..but it could be the source of the "explosive" sounds and shaking of the house. Finally an answer of sorts. Thanks..EQ info below: Jackie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Sat Jan 7 20:53:47 2006 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Sat Jan 7 20:54:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] my new website References: <20060105223257.46F441E3044@alora.infowest.com> Message-ID: <001101c6140f$82e3f400$6601a8c0@maingear> I would like to announce to the group that I am working on a website to showcase my rock/mineral/fossil collection. I guess it is pretty modest as collections go but it is growing all the time. I have regular photos, close-up photos, and even microscope photos (not that good but I am learning). I did not use an HTML editor and wrote all the code myself. I have tested and retested the links but that does not mean there are no mistakes. If you would like to see it the URL is www.paulsminerals.com Feel free to send comments good OR bad and if its not too much trouble sign the guest book. Kind regards, Paul in Marietta, Pa From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jan 7 21:20:26 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jan 7 21:18:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] my new website In-Reply-To: <001101c6140f$82e3f400$6601a8c0@maingear> References: <20060105223257.46F441E3044@alora.infowest.com> <001101c6140f$82e3f400$6601a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: <43C0A11A.9060703@verizon.net> Paul wrote: > Feel free to send comments good OR bad and if its not too much trouble > sign the guest book. Very nice. Some of the photos are darn good. When you get a really good one, you should take note of the lighting and orientation and try to duplicate that technique. Don't be too self-conscious about anything. I prefer simplicity myself; I've seen websites that were so overbearingly baroque that I left them in disgust. Also, when you write your own simple HTML then you can be sure that the page will be viewable in most, if not all, browsers. As a non-Internet Explorer user I appreciate pages that are not festooned with all that rococco curlicue nonsense. Keep it up, you will keep getting better. Some of your best photos rival those of people who have been photographing for years. It shows that you don't need a million-dollar setup to do good work. A good photographer with minimal equipment will do a better job than a bad photographer with top equipment. You know one of my favorite sayings: "If you're a bad photographer, and you get a more expensive camera, you'll still be a bad photographer, only with better equipment." Good luck, Don From turnea55 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 7 22:32:19 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Sat Jan 7 22:32:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AZ in January Message-ID: Hello, I work as a mine geologist in Superior, AZ several days a week (although I live and work in southern CA as well). I was planning on going to the show in Globe this coming weekend as it should be a good warmup for Tucson. However, after reading the recent post and doing some research, I saw the info about the large "Arizona Rockfest" show. Due to time constraints (having to fly home that Friday afternoon), I am only able to attend one of these shows. Does anyone know which one would be better? I would imagine the rockfest show is larger and has a greater mineral selection, but the Globe show may have a more local flavor with better dealers and better deals. The rockfest show seems to be more of an educational thing, but I don't know. If anyone has any insight, please let me know. Thank you. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA >From: Al Balmer >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AZ in January >Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 10:20:42 -0700 > >Rik Dillen wrote: >>Thanks, Grant, >> >>I have been a couple of times to Quarzsite, but I also had the occasion to >>go to two shows in one week-end in the >>neighbourhood of Tempe (also in Ja nuary). Does anyone know the 2006 dates >>of these shows ? >>Thanks and greetings, > >Rik, I don't know if you ever got an answer to this, and I forgot about it. > >Jan 1 - Feb 28, Desert Gardens, Quartzsite >Jan 6 - Jan 15, Tyson Wells, Quartzsite >Jan 6 - Jan 15, Flagg show, Mesa Community College, 1833 W. Southern Ave, >Mesa, AZ >Jan 13 - Jan 15, Arizona Rockfest, Tempe Diablo Stadium, 2200 W Alameda Dr, >Tempe, AZ >Jan 13 - Jan 15, Gila County show, Gila County Fair Building, 3 miles N of >junction US 60-70, Globe, AZ. > >I'll post more AZ shows later. >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From albalmer at att.net Sat Jan 7 22:34:26 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sat Jan 7 22:34:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AZ shows for 2006 In-Reply-To: <43BFF86A.1070905@att.net> References: <200509062119.j86LJGpQ030055@outmx023.isp.belgacom.be> <43BFF86A.1070905@att.net> Message-ID: <43C0B272.4050203@att.net> Al Balmer wrote: > I'll post more AZ shows later. Here we go: January 1 - February 28, 2006 - Quartzsite Desert Gardens Intl. Gem & Mineral Show P. O. Box 619, Quartzsite, AZ 85346 1155 Kuehn Street, 1/4 mile east of exit 17 Hours: 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Admission and Parking: Free Dealers Contact: Sandi McAllister, 928-927-6361 January 6 -15, 2006 - Quartzsite Tyson Wells Rock-Gem-Mineral Show P. O. Box 60, Quartzsite, AZ 85346, 928-927-6364 W. Corner I -10 Freeway & Highway 95, Quartzsite, AZ www.tysonwells.com Admission and Parking: Free January 6 - 8, 2006 - Mesa 34th Annual Flagg Gem & Mineral Show Mesa Community College, 1833 W. Southern Ave., west parking lot, Mesa, AZ, Hours: 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Admission and Parking: Free Dealers Contact: Ray Grant, 480-814-9086 January 13 - 15, 2006 - Tempe Arizona Rockfest Tempe Diablo Stadium, 2200 West Alameda Dr., west parking lot, Tempe, AZ, Sponsored by: Mineralogical Society of Arizona www.azminerals.com Hours: 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Admission: Adults - $5.00, Children Ages 6 to 12 - $3.00 Parking: Free Dealers Contact: WR Russ, 4515 E. Joan De Arc, Phoenix, AZ 85032 602-923-7802, cell: 602-684-7381 January 13 - 15, 2006 - Globe Gila County Gem & Mineral Show, Gila County Fair Building, 3 miles north of junction U.S. Highway 60-70 Globe, AZ 85501 Hours: Fri.& Sat. 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Sun. 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Admission: $2.00 donation, free parking Show Chairperson: Bill Morrow P. O. Box 1716, Claypool, AZ 85532, 928-4258431 Dealers Contact: Clyde Caviness, 5709 S. McKinney, Globe, AZ 85532, 928-425-7200 January 20 - 29, 2006 - Quartzsite Tyson Wells Sell-A-Rama, Rocks, Gem-Arts-Crafts Show SW Corner of I-10 Freeway and Highway 95, Quartzsite, AZ www.tysonwells.com Admission: Free Dealers Contact: Tyson Wells Sell-A-Rama, P. O. Box 60, Quartzsite, AZ 85346, 928-927-6364 (mail 6-8 months ahead) January 25 - 29 2006 - Quartzsite Quartzsite Improvement Association POW Wow, Gem & Mineral Show Sponsored by: Quartzsite Improvement Association, Dealers contact: Diane Abbott, P. O. Box 881, Quartzsite, AZ 85346 928-927-6325, Fax 928-927-4503, www.quartzsiteimprovementassoc.com Admission: Free Parking February 9 - 12, 2006 - Tucson Tucson Gem and Mineral Show? Tucson Convention Center, 260 S. Church Ave., Tucson, AZ 85701 www.tgms.org - E-mail: tgms@tgms.org Sponsored by: Tucson Gem and Mineral Society, Inc. Hours: Thursday through Sat., 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Sun. 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Admission: $7.00, under 14 free with paying adult Parking: $4.00 to $5.00 Dealers Contact: Show Committee, P. O. Box 42588 Tucson, AZ 85733, 520-322-5773 For a listing of all the peripheral Tucson shows: www.tucsonshowguide.com February 11 - 12, 2006 - Wickenburg Gold Rush Days, 54th Annual Gem & Mineral Show Sale Wickenburg Community Center, 160 N. Valentine, Wickenburg, AZ 85390 Hours: Fri., Sat. 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Sun. 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Admission: Free, Parking: fee Dealers Contact: Lucille Burroughs, P. O. Box 26375, Wickenburg, AZ 85358, 928-684-0099 February 18, 2006 - Phoenix Prospectors' Day Arizona Mining and Mineral Museum, 1502 W. Washington, Phoenix, AZ 85007 Gold panning, demonstrations, panning equipment, and more, activities for children Sponsored by: Arizona Mining & Mineral Museum and Arizona Prospectors Association Hours: 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Show Chairperson: Warren Rosebraugh, 9614 Pineridge, Sun City, AZ 85351, 623-974-0539 February 25, 2006 - Arizona City Arizona City Gem & Mineral Show Arizona City Community Center, 13270 S. Sunland Gin Road, Arizona City, AZ 85223 Sponsored by: Arizona City Gem & Mineral Society Hours: 9:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Show Chairpersons: Harvey Olender, 1920 N. Thornton Rd., Sp. 415, Arizona City, AZ 520-876-2415 & Rae Tennery, 1920 N. Thornton Rd. Casa Grande, AZ 85222 Dealer Contact: Julene Dixon, P.O. Box 1131, Arizona City, AZ 85223, 520-466-6653 and Maxine Haggard, P. O. Box 1508, Arizona City, AZ 85223, 520-466-5119 Admission and Parking: Free February 24 - 26, 2006 - Mesa 56th Annual Phoenix Gem & Mineral Show Mineral & Jewelry Expo, "Art on the Rocks" Mesa Centennial Center, 201 N. Center St., Mesa, AZ Sponsored by: Maricopa Lapidary Society Show Co-Chairperson: Sandi McDonald, Pedro Chavez, or Joanne Hesterman Admission: $5.00, $1.00 off coupon available at the Arizona Mining & Mineral Museum, 1502 W. Washington, Phoenix, AZ 85007 Parking: Free Hours: Fri. & Sat. - 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Sun. - 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Show Chair Pedro Chavez, 623-825-1512 Dealers contact: Laurette Kennedy, home 602-944-5737, cell 602-738-2552 E-mail: LKennedy11@aol.com March 24 - 26, 2006 - Cottonwood Annual Verde Valley Gem and Mineral Show Mingus Union High School, 1801 E. Fir Ave, Cottonwood, AZ 86326 Sponsored by: Mingus Gem and Mineral Club Hours: Fri., Sat. - 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Sun. - 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Admission: Fri. - $1:00, Sat. & Sun -$3:00, 3-day pass -$5:00, children under 12 free Show Chairperson: Peter Martin, 1801 Kock Ranch Rd., Cornville, AZ 86325, 928-649-0745 Dealer Contact: Richard Casmier, P.O. Box 586, Rimrock, AZ 86335, 928-592-0232, rcasmier@aol.com March 30, April 1, 2, 2006 - Yuma Yuma Gem & Mineral Society Club exhibits in the Yuma Fair Contact Wes Riley, 10657 S. Ave. 9E # L1, Yuma, AZ 85367, 928-305-6299 May 27, 28, 2006 - Pinetop-Lakeside 11th Annual Gem & Mineral Show Blur Ridge Jr. High (gym & Caf?) Sponsored by: White Mountain Gem & Mineral Club Admission: $1:00 children under 12 free Hours: 9:00 a.m.5:00 p.m. Show Chairperson: Tonie Mondragon, P. O. Box 3504, Show Low, AZ 85902, 928-537-8855 Parking: Free From ROCKCURRIER at cs.com Sun Jan 8 11:15:38 2006 From: ROCKCURRIER at cs.com (ROCKCURRIER@cs.com) Date: Sun Jan 8 11:15:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green quartz Message-ID: <655397D7.18FE3A75.3AEB17FB@cs.com> I have handled many tons of natural quartz crystals from many world wide localities and never seen any transparet natural green quartz. I have seen some pretty nice pieces of man made transparent green quartz. I would strongly suspect that the necklace of transparent green "amethyst" was of synthetic origin and would think before beliving it to be of natural origin would want to see a certificate from the GIA or other responsible gemalogical organization. Some years ago I recieved from Prof. Vladimir SBalitsky, head of the Labratory of Mineral Synthesis at the Institute of Experimental Mineralogy at the USSR Academy of Sciences samples of synthetic quartz crystals of clear quartz, amethyst and citrine and even some that include together amethyst, citrine and green quartz. There were also some faceted stones, one of which is a long emerald cut that has all three colors with the green in the center of the stone. Since green quartz can be grown in the lab there is quite possible that it does occur somewhere in nature. It is interesting to hear about the occurrence at Thunder Bay although I have never seen any. The quartz that is a sort of lemon green color is to my knowledge from a particular locality in Brazil and is caused by irridiation. This has been produced in abundance and is available commercially. I once saw several hundred kgs of the treated rough at a lapidary factory in mainland China not far from Hong Kong. I would be cureous what Si & Frazier would say about transparent natural green quartz. They have spent their life studing quartz and its varieties. Ill drop them an email when I get an answer, Ill post it here.Rock From xossfs at yahoo.com Mon Jan 9 17:45:51 2006 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Mon Jan 9 17:45:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver In-Reply-To: <003001c612d1$37e2c0b0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <20060110014551.70411.qmail@web33413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The same concept woks for oil and natural gas The higher the price the longer it will be befroe we3 run "out" of oil. At $1,000 a barrel we will have oil for the next three thousand years. --- Ted Kowalski wrote: > Grant: > I'm not sure what your question really aims for; but > I'll take a crack at > some of the aspects. > > Precious metals are primarily responding to the > uncertainties in the world > market; that is, war, terrorism, oil shortages, > currency fluctuations and > threats of inflation. If and when these > uncertainties come under control the > metals will settle into a stable range. > > All of the precious metals have higher consumption > levels than mining > provides and have been in this condition for years. > Gold and silver have > been in this condition for well over a decade, as I > remember. Why? Many of > the world's countries have been moving away from > gold/silver standards and > are selling off their hoards. If these hoards were > dumped on the market the > precious metals values would plummet; so they are > released gradually. There > are still hoards a plenty out there. > > Add to this, every time the precious metals rise in > value people come out of > the woodwork to sell old items from their attics. > Back when gold reached > $800 an ounce I sold my HS ring. I didn't wear it > and I was happy to put > it's value to work elsewhere. > > Plus, as mentioned by others; mining for precious > metals is driven by > relative value. We are not short of reserves in the > ground. We lack the > financial return to pursue many of those reserves. > As the metals rise higher > in price companies will review viability of mining > specifically for the > precious stuff. > > I live in Spotsylvania Virginia surrounded by small > gold mines... Well, > small in that very few were developed beyond pick > and shovel. The few that > were developed identified very large reserves. The > reserves are low-grade > and centered in populated neighborhoods; but they > are substantial. When it > comes to building a cyanide leach plant for > extracting the gold it will take > a high value to drive this; though I will not > preclude a company trucking > ore to a leach field elsewhere. > > There are similar reserves in North Carolina and > Georgia in the East; and > through many of the states out West. Basically the > metals are in the ground > and can be available for a price. > > So where are values going? Above all they are risky > as long as countries are > putting gold/silver/platinum reserves on the market. > The real value though > is well north of where they have been. Especially as > demand in the orient > (India, China, Japan, Korea) continues to climb. > India where people wear > their bank accounts is especially impacting gold. Is > Gold a steal at $600 an > oz? Frankly, I do not know and I've seen financial > analyst reports that > claim pro and con. > > The word on Wall Street is that with all of this > volatility traders will > again maintain precious metal portfolios. The key > word here is volatility; > profit is made when metals change value, not when > they are stable. Keep your > investments simple sensible and within reason. > > Ted > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On > Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:25 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver > > That wasn't a supergene deposit tho, was it? The old > mines back in the > 1800's had silver concentrations up in the double > digit percent range. IIRC > some were 30-40% silver. I had the impression that > current mines were more > in the few ounces per ton range. I may be using the > supergene term > incorrectly, I picked it up from on of McPhee's > books. > > BK > > > On 1/6/06, Wayne Rasmussen > wrote: > > > > Hello Mr, Krammer, > > > > Sorry not so, the Silver supply in the Kellogg > Idaho Silver/lead district > > stopped > > due to the low price for silver, and not because > it was depleted, > > they have not even touched the biggest lode under > those mountains > > yet, shafts are flooded but can be brought into > service again rather > > quickly > > I have been told by a miner that worked there for > 22 years and was one of > > the last to leave ahead of the 130 degree f. water > when the pumps were > > shut > > down. > > . > > Wayne > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com From luvjoplin024 at juno.com Mon Jan 9 18:21:02 2006 From: luvjoplin024 at juno.com (luvjoplin024@juno.com) Date: Mon Jan 9 18:22:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Message-ID: <20060109.182133.19375.282100@webmail53.nyc.untd.com> Hi, I am a beginner rockhunter. I live in Madison, Va. A couple months back I was going to a hiking trail near Graves Mountain Lodge, and in the parking lot I found some busted rocks. As I looked through them I discovered someone had been busting the rocks and getting crystals out. There was also another reddish type of rock that looked like someone had used a saw to cut it. I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on where to look and what to look for when searching for crystals. Thanks. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Mon Jan 9 18:58:11 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Mon Jan 9 18:58:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Going to Oak Ridge and Franklin NC Locations? Message-ID: <002e01c61591$b1409a00$259e5a40@marilyn> Hello all. I will be going to Quartsite the 13, 14, 15 We got delayed a couple of days so If you will be around email me and I'll try to get together with rockhound members to swap tales. In addition I will be going to Oak Ridge TN the 22nd through the 27th Jan. for training on PCB Management (I know sounds like fun huh). So I am going out a couple of days early for a winter field trip. I have spoken with one of the ruby mine owners and they agreed to open up to sell me some paydirt to take back as they are closed for the winter and the flume is not working. One mine is open so I'll try to go there too but since most of the mines are closed. I'll keep trying to reach other owners. I thought I'd ask if anyone had any suggestions to give. I don't know where the emeralds are, close to Franklin I think. North? or if any mines are open, but a trip through the Smokies aounds fun even if that's all I can do. Any help from my friends east of the muddy? Going to QZ? All the best. Steve. Keep on rockin. P.S. your care package is finally on the way Kreigh! Thank you again. Talk to you soon. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jan 9 20:09:20 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jan 9 20:02:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) References: <20060109.182133.19375.282100@webmail53.nyc.untd.com> Message-ID: <43C331CC.5FDE@Tomaszewski.net> Start by going to http://www.amfed.org and find a rock club that is near you. Local help from experienced collectors will be of great help. luvjoplin024@juno.com wrote: > > Hi, I am a beginner rockhunter. I live in Madison, Va. A couple months back I was going to a hiking trail near Graves Mountain Lodge, and in the parking lot I found some busted rocks. As I looked through them I discovered someone had been busting the rocks and getting crystals out. There was also another reddish type of rock that looked like someone had used a saw to cut it. I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on where to look and what to look for when searching for crystals. From Ted at crystalgems.com Tue Jan 10 10:30:14 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Tue Jan 10 10:30:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20060109.182133.19375.282100@webmail53.nyc.untd.com> Message-ID: <007e01c61613$dd99ed40$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> LuvJoplin024: Welcome to the list! Not to disappoint, but at least for me, you haven't given us much information to respond to concerning your question. Since I'm relatively local, I take a quick shot at your question. Hopefully and with a lot of luck, someone else that is local will have seen the rocks you are referring to and can speak specifically. Were the rocks in the parking lot? It is possible, even likely that the rocks were brought in from elsewhere; perhaps a quarry. Several quarries in Virginia allow rockhound clubs to enter and work the rock piles. I live in Virginia and while I recognize where Graves Mountain in Virginia is, I do not know where Graves Mountain Lodge is; for all I know it could be in Georgia or Eastern Africa. Please be aware that this is an international list and naming localities without identifying the location can really be confusing. Were any crystals or crystal fragments left? Could you describe them or better yet post a picture? A picture could really help. Attachments are prohibited on this list so you would need to post the picture elsewhere. A general link for Virginia is http://www.mme.state.va.us/dmr/DOCS/Geol/vageo.html I second Kreigh's recommendation about finding a local rock club. Virginia is a very interesting place geologically and joining the local club is the best way to begin that experience. Another thought is that if the rocks were in the parking lot, someone at the lodge might know more about them including where more are found Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of luvjoplin024@juno.com Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:21 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Hi, I am a beginner rockhunter. I live in Madison, Va. A couple months back I was going to a hiking trail near Graves Mountain Lodge, and in the parking lot I found some busted rocks. As I looked through them I discovered someone had been busting the rocks and getting crystals out. There was also another reddish type of rock that looked like someone had used a saw to cut it. I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on where to look and what to look for when searching for crystals. Thanks. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Tue Jan 10 12:03:02 2006 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Tue Jan 10 12:03:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Welcome LuvJoplin024 In-Reply-To: <007e01c61613$dd99ed40$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: Dear LuvJoplin024 Howdy. I grew up in the Washington, D.C. area, where I began rock hunting at an early age. You're in a fun place to collect, as there are many different kinds of rocks there, relatively well exposed. As for where to look, any place where there are rocks, loose or in place, is my answer. Keeping your eyes open where ever you are is a great way to get started. With such diverse local geology, the rocks you find in one area might be totally difference from that found just a few miles down the road. That means you'll soon be exposed to a variety of rocks. Pick up those things that look different, or attractive or interesting. I'll third the suggestion of linking up with a local rock hound club. The variety of rocks that members bring in to meetings to "share" helps broaden your knowledge. If they do field trips, go on all you can, as you can also learn a lot about what to look for and how to collect it from seeing how experienced collectors work. You might also see if local colleges have some basic geology or lapidary courses, so you can get some background and an intro. to rock and mineral I.D. Skills. The state geological survey likely has some publications to aimed at the beginning rock collector. Here's a link to your local "Virginia Department of Mines, Minerals and Energy" - http://www.mme.state.va.us/Dmr/home.dmr.html . I notice links for "students and Teachers" and "Geology of Virginia" that should be fruitful. Looking at local museums is good too, and you aren't that far from the astounding displays in the Smithsonian. Don't be overwhelmed by the quality you see in museums and in the collections of mineral connoisseurs. You'll get there eventually, It's learning and having fun along the way that is the real reward. I don't regret a minute of any field trip I've been on - even if I only got a grungy piece of quartz by the end of a day. But keep looking. You never know what will turn up, and often you might be the first to look at a particular quarry or road cut or building excavation. I've often been floored by what a "newby" might bring into my office, having found it in a place no one else thought to look. That's the fun part - the treasure hunt. Best wishes- Bill Cordua Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > luvjoplin024@juno.com > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:21 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) > > Hi, I am a beginner rockhunter. I live in Madison, Va. A couple months > back I was going to a hiking trail near Graves Mountain Lodge, and in the > parking lot I found some busted rocks. As I looked through them I > discovered someone had been busting the rocks and getting crystals out. > There was also another reddish type of rock that looked like someone had > used a saw to cut it. I was wondering if anyone could give me some tips on > where to look and what to look for when searching for crystals. Thanks. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From roughrock at gmail.com Tue Jan 10 16:31:43 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Tue Jan 10 16:31:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver In-Reply-To: <003001c612d1$37e2c0b0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <003001c612d1$37e2c0b0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: Thanks Ted, Bryan, Wayne and others who answered my question. I think the consensus among precious metal investors -- at least those who make their feelings known -- is that some percent of "above ground" precious metal is kept in hoards. Usually a hoard is called a treasury. (I love that word, hoard. Remember Scrooge McDuck, Donald's Uncle?) However, some percent of all precious metal in the world supply is used in ways that make it non recoverable. And with silver a whole lot of it is used that way. Very little gold falls into that last group, the unrecoverable, used up commodity. Most of the worlds gold is still in existence; in hoards, in coin collections, and in jewelry. However, a lot of silver is used in ways that prevent recovery. In the finished product it is so dilute that recycling is not economically viable. The world supply of above-ground silver consist of those hoards, from recycled industrial waste, and some amount from newly mined ore. However, there are very few mines where silver is the primary metal recovered. It is a secondary mineral in both gold and copper mines, but I only found one public company who listed silver as their primary product. As Wayne pointed out, mining will increase the supply of silver if the demand for gold or copper increases to the point where they reopen closed and flooded shafts, -- or if the price of silver reaches the point where it is economically viable to open the mine just for the silver. If that last scenario ever happens copper and gold will decline in value as they become a by-product of silver refining. And there seems to be a widespread belief that we are using up the world supply of silver much faster than it is being released from hoards or being recovered by recycling or from newly smelted ore. Several web sites are touting the idea that we are beyond "peak silver." I don't know if that's true or not but it's an interesting idea. After reading all I can find about it I have conclded silver is the best value in the precious metal group. And for jewelers and rockhounds who like looking around old mines, that change in value could be important. Grant On 06 Jan 2006 06:55:53 -0800, Ted Kowalski wrote: > Grant: > I'm not sure what your question really aims for; but I'll take a crack at > some of the aspects. > > Precious metals are primarily responding to the uncertainties in the world > market; that is, war, terrorism, oil shortages, currency fluctuations and > threats of inflation. If and when these uncertainties come under control the > metals will settle into a stable range. > > All of the precious metals have higher consumption levels than mining > provides and have been in this condition for years. Gold and silver have > been in this condition for well over a decade, as I remember. Why? Many of > the world's countries have been moving away from gold/silver standards and > are selling off their hoards. If these hoards were dumped on the market the > precious metals values would plummet; so they are released gradually. There > are still hoards a plenty out there. > > Add to this, every time the precious metals rise in value people come out of > the woodwork to sell old items from their attics. Back when gold reached > $800 an ounce I sold my HS ring. I didn't wear it and I was happy to put > it's value to work elsewhere. > > Plus, as mentioned by others; mining for precious metals is driven by > relative value. We are not short of reserves in the ground. We lack the > financial return to pursue many of those reserves. As the metals rise higher > in price companies will review viability of mining specifically for the > precious stuff. > > I live in Spotsylvania Virginia surrounded by small gold mines... Well, > small in that very few were developed beyond pick and shovel. The few that > were developed identified very large reserves. The reserves are low-grade > and centered in populated neighborhoods; but they are substantial. When it > comes to building a cyanide leach plant for extracting the gold it will take > a high value to drive this; though I will not preclude a company trucking > ore to a leach field elsewhere. > > There are similar reserves in North Carolina and Georgia in the East; and > through many of the states out West. Basically the metals are in the ground > and can be available for a price. > > So where are values going? Above all they are risky as long as countries are > putting gold/silver/platinum reserves on the market. The real value though > is well north of where they have been. Especially as demand in the orient > (India, China, Japan, Korea) continues to climb. India where people wear > their bank accounts is especially impacting gold. Is Gold a steal at $600 an > oz? Frankly, I do not know and I've seen financial analyst reports that > claim pro and con. > > The word on Wall Street is that with all of this volatility traders will > again maintain precious metal portfolios. The key word here is volatility; > profit is made when metals change value, not when they are stable. Keep your > investments simple sensible and within reason. > > Ted > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer > Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:25 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver > > That wasn't a supergene deposit tho, was it? The old mines back in the > 1800's had silver concentrations up in the double digit percent range. IIRC > some were 30-40% silver. I had the impression that current mines were more > in the few ounces per ton range. I may be using the supergene term > incorrectly, I picked it up from on of McPhee's books. > > BK > > > On 1/6/06, Wayne Rasmussen wrote: > > > > Hello Mr, Krammer, > > > > Sorry not so, the Silver supply in the Kellogg Idaho Silver/lead district > > stopped > > due to the low price for silver, and not because it was depleted, > > they have not even touched the biggest lode under those mountains > > yet, shafts are flooded but can be brought into service again rather > > quickly > > I have been told by a miner that worked there for 22 years and was one of > > the last to leave ahead of the 130 degree f. water when the pumps were > > shut > > down. > > . > > Wayne > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Jan 10 16:52:52 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Jan 10 16:50:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver In-Reply-To: References: <003001c612d1$37e2c0b0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <43C456E4.80201@verizon.net> Grant Johnston wrote: > And there seems to be a widespread belief that we are using up the > world supply of silver much faster than it is being released from > hoards or being recovered by recycling or from newly smelted ore. > Several web sites are touting the idea that we are beyond "peak > silver." > > I don't know if that's true or not but it's an interesting idea. After > reading all I can find about it I have conclded silver is the best > value in the precious metal group. And for jewelers and rockhounds who > like looking around old mines, that change in value could be > important. I am concerned that you are getting your information from investment sources rather than economic geology publications. I remember when I was a teenager, I heard one of those sleazy radio ads where it sounds like the speaker is calling from a telephone (I wonder why that is supposed to make it sound like the speaker is some sort of expert?) The ad screamed, "silver prices predicted to reach 40 dollars an ounce by the end of the decade!" I told my father I wanted to invest in silver, and just to shut me up, he bought me a Engelhard .999 sterling troy ounce bar. I think it cost about $11. Silver prices went down, down, and stayed down for years. I still have that bar, decades later. On the other hand, when I was dabbling in jewelry, I bought gold casting grain in the $200-250/troy oz. range. I thought that was expensive and stopped buying it. Instead, we now have $500+ gold, and as soon as I find where I put those few ounces I have left, I am going to sell it. I wish I had bought pounds of it! Don't even talk about platinum. The price is ridiculous. Any honest book on investing will tell you, bluntly, that unless you are on the inside, you won't have much luck investing in stocks, commodities, precious metals, etc. Those in the know have already made done their buying and selling and by the time any information reaches the public, the investment potential has already been diluted by professional traders. There are always exceptions, but I wouldn't bet my life savings on such investments and especially on "tips." Please consider your sources carefully. I think you're better off investing in precious Australian opal than in precious metals. Good luck, Don From smtravis at plateautel.net Tue Jan 10 18:22:18 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Tue Jan 10 18:22:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver References: <003001c612d1$37e2c0b0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <007701c61655$d851ab60$259e5a40@marilyn> A short note on reopening mines with fooded shafts. That is NOT a simple process of hooking up the pumps. Most metal mines have some pyrite or other sulfides associated with the ore metals when the waters come in contact with them as the french say Voila ! sulfuric acid. Which can not be released to the ground or waterways and must be treated under our new EPA regulations. That not simply the price of gold will determine how costly it is to reopen a mine. I am in agreement that when the price of gold silver copper lead etc rises the mining will resume. I heard somewheres (yes I am from the west) once in my minerals exploration days that only 8% of the available gold in the earth has been recovered/mined I don't doubt it, but one would have to do a lot of economic evaluation to determine what the cost would be to recover say 30% What ever remember when the Hunts drove the price of silver to $35 + I sold all my scrap silver at $30 and wondered where I would get the money to keep making rings etc. Needles to say I have bought silver at below $4 for many years after that and can only say "buy low sell high" not the other way around, as most do when they hear gold will go to $1000 by the end of the year (that is just an expression NOT even a rumor) any body want to buy some very rare fire agate I bought/mined in the 70'S I hear its almost mined out. Heh Heh. Keep on rockin. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver > Thanks Ted, Bryan, Wayne and others who answered my question. > > I think the consensus among precious metal investors -- at least those > who make their feelings known -- is that some percent of "above > ground" precious metal is kept in hoards. Usually a hoard is called a > treasury. (I love that word, hoard. Remember Scrooge McDuck, Donald's > Uncle?) > > However, some percent of all precious metal in the world supply is > used in ways that make it non recoverable. And with silver a whole lot > of it is used that way. > > Very little gold falls into that last group, the unrecoverable, used > up commodity. Most of the worlds gold is still in existence; in > hoards, in coin collections, and in jewelry. > > However, a lot of silver is used in ways that prevent recovery. In the > finished product it is so dilute that recycling is not economically > viable. > > The world supply of above-ground silver consist of those hoards, from > recycled industrial waste, and some amount from newly mined ore. > However, there are very few mines where silver is the primary metal > recovered. It is a secondary mineral in both gold and copper mines, > but I only found one public company who listed silver as their primary > product. > > As Wayne pointed out, mining will increase the supply of silver if the > demand for gold or copper increases to the point where they reopen > closed and flooded shafts, -- or if the price of silver reaches the > point where it is economically viable to open the mine just for the > silver. If that last scenario ever happens copper and gold will > decline in value as they become a by-product of silver refining. > > And there seems to be a widespread belief that we are using up the > world supply of silver much faster than it is being released from > hoards or being recovered by recycling or from newly smelted ore. > Several web sites are touting the idea that we are beyond "peak > silver." > > I don't know if that's true or not but it's an interesting idea. After > reading all I can find about it I have conclded silver is the best > value in the precious metal group. And for jewelers and rockhounds who > like looking around old mines, that change in value could be > important. > > Grant > > > On 06 Jan 2006 06:55:53 -0800, Ted Kowalski wrote: >> Grant: >> I'm not sure what your question really aims for; but I'll take a crack at >> some of the aspects. >> >> Precious metals are primarily responding to the uncertainties in the >> world >> market; that is, war, terrorism, oil shortages, currency fluctuations and >> threats of inflation. If and when these uncertainties come under control >> the >> metals will settle into a stable range. >> >> All of the precious metals have higher consumption levels than mining >> provides and have been in this condition for years. Gold and silver have >> been in this condition for well over a decade, as I remember. Why? Many >> of >> the world's countries have been moving away from gold/silver standards >> and >> are selling off their hoards. If these hoards were dumped on the market >> the >> precious metals values would plummet; so they are released gradually. >> There >> are still hoards a plenty out there. >> >> Add to this, every time the precious metals rise in value people come out >> of >> the woodwork to sell old items from their attics. Back when gold reached >> $800 an ounce I sold my HS ring. I didn't wear it and I was happy to put >> it's value to work elsewhere. >> >> Plus, as mentioned by others; mining for precious metals is driven by >> relative value. We are not short of reserves in the ground. We lack the >> financial return to pursue many of those reserves. As the metals rise >> higher >> in price companies will review viability of mining specifically for the >> precious stuff. >> >> I live in Spotsylvania Virginia surrounded by small gold mines... Well, >> small in that very few were developed beyond pick and shovel. The few >> that >> were developed identified very large reserves. The reserves are low-grade >> and centered in populated neighborhoods; but they are substantial. When >> it >> comes to building a cyanide leach plant for extracting the gold it will >> take >> a high value to drive this; though I will not preclude a company trucking >> ore to a leach field elsewhere. >> >> There are similar reserves in North Carolina and Georgia in the East; and >> through many of the states out West. Basically the metals are in the >> ground >> and can be available for a price. >> >> So where are values going? Above all they are risky as long as countries >> are >> putting gold/silver/platinum reserves on the market. The real value >> though >> is well north of where they have been. Especially as demand in the orient >> (India, China, Japan, Korea) continues to climb. India where people wear >> their bank accounts is especially impacting gold. Is Gold a steal at $600 >> an >> oz? Frankly, I do not know and I've seen financial analyst reports that >> claim pro and con. >> >> The word on Wall Street is that with all of this volatility traders will >> again maintain precious metal portfolios. The key word here is >> volatility; >> profit is made when metals change value, not when they are stable. Keep >> your >> investments simple sensible and within reason. >> >> Ted >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer >> Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:25 AM >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver >> >> That wasn't a supergene deposit tho, was it? The old mines back in the >> 1800's had silver concentrations up in the double digit percent range. >> IIRC >> some were 30-40% silver. I had the impression that current mines were >> more >> in the few ounces per ton range. I may be using the supergene term >> incorrectly, I picked it up from on of McPhee's books. >> >> BK >> >> >> On 1/6/06, Wayne Rasmussen wrote: >> > >> > Hello Mr, Krammer, >> > >> > Sorry not so, the Silver supply in the Kellogg Idaho Silver/lead >> > district >> > stopped >> > due to the low price for silver, and not because it was depleted, >> > they have not even touched the biggest lode under those mountains >> > yet, shafts are flooded but can be brought into service again rather >> > quickly >> > I have been told by a miner that worked there for 22 years and was one >> > of >> > the last to leave ahead of the 130 degree f. water when the pumps were >> > shut >> > down. >> > . >> > Wayne >> > >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From jr50wv at yahoo.com Tue Jan 10 19:15:47 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Tue Jan 10 19:15:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Silver mining, supergene deposits, etc Message-ID: <20060111031547.74246.qmail@web34611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: John McPhee, who was mentioned recently, is one of my favorite authors. He writes about everything and anything, ans is mostly published in the New Yorker. Many of his chosen topics are related either to nature (natural history), people and their habits, and geology. He has written a set of volumes that together make up a geologic history of North America. One of his books is in large part about a professor of geology who studies gold and silver mining in the American west, with an eye to locating a claimable site with a big dump of tailings, residue from the milling process. You see, back then they could only recover 90% of the precious metal from the ore, but now they can recover 99%, and the difference put his kids through college, and seemed to put him on easy street. He wasn't buying refined metal and betting that the price would go up, he was refining the metal, at a fixed cost, below the market value. Not the same thing at all. McPhee also told the story of a backhow operator, working in his backyard, who uncovered a tiny stripe of supergene deposit, mostly solid silver. Just a couple cubic yards was sufficient to put his kid through school. He said to the kids, "You should look at this, it's something no one else will ever see, because they're all been mined now!" IT was a tiny 8 foot strip of the deposit, accidently left behind a hundred years ago. But, you know, a Colorado truck driver just a few years ago stopped to relieve himself in the bushes by the road, and as he walked back to his rig, he stopped and looked at a big rock by the road. As he fooled with it, he saw that it was actually mostly gold, underneath. Now that puppy is in the Denver Museum, the biggest gold nugget from Colorado still in existance, if I recall correctly. The driver/miner got a $20,000 bonus. It was too big for him to carry by himself, or he might have made more, if he wasn't as honest as a good mountain man should be. You westerners correct me if I'm too far off here. Silver (and gold) is mostly found where they've already found it. There was a big gold strike in the south Pacific a few years ago, that turned out to be salted samples, and the geologist had a terrible accident, falling from a company helicopter. The money there was in the stock scam, I suppose. Enough for tonight, Keep on Rockin' JR --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind it! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tam2819 at cox.net Tue Jan 10 19:20:05 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Tue Jan 10 19:20:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver In-Reply-To: References: <003001c612d1$37e2c0b0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <286212d22805364481d21dfc6f67e1d9@cox.net> Interesting thread. Many years ago, I invested in raw land in Nevada. Yes I still have it. I visited the area several times and was aware of what other owners were doing with their pieces. The area is known to have "flour gold" among other things. Some owners were acid leaching for gold recovery. What impressed me most is just how many ton needed to be moved for what fraction of an ounce. As I remember, the Hunt Bros runup was greater than $40. What will happen to precious metals this time around remains to be seen. Much of the family silver was scrapped, that was when I found some to keep in its original form. There is no longer the emphasis on Sterling Flatware as there was in my younger days. Not sure there will be the rush to melt these pieces, as I think volume is not the same. I want to make certain what I own will remain in its fabricated form. It pains me to see fantastic sterling flatware offered at melt prices. Unfortunately in the class I take, I have seen it too often. Ouch, Terrie From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Tue Jan 10 21:41:30 2006 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Tue Jan 10 21:42:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver References: <003001c612d1$37e2c0b0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <003301c61671$b0941c90$675fe842@Titans> Grant, (chuckling ) you seemed to have hit that one right on the head, so now I don't feel so foolish rolling in my silver coins and throwing them up in the air, just call me Scrooge, I was down in several of the active mines doing a study on " Usable Heat Value in Mining " in the Kellogg Idaho mining distric, some of the area that was active mined had a very high percentage of Silver but when the over all average was done it was just that, average, if those mines ever do pump out that water a new industry will be waiting on the out side called Greenhouses using the Geothermal heat from those deep spring vents issueing all that free energy in the form of hot water heating use's. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver > Thanks Ted, Bryan, Wayne and others who answered my question. > > I think the consensus among precious metal investors -- at least those > who make their feelings known -- is that some percent of "above > ground" precious metal is kept in hoards. Usually a hoard is called a > treasury. (I love that word, hoard. Remember Scrooge McDuck, Donald's > Uncle?) > > However, some percent of all precious metal in the world supply is > used in ways that make it non recoverable. And with silver a whole lot > of it is used that way. > > Very little gold falls into that last group, the unrecoverable, used > up commodity. Most of the worlds gold is still in existence; in > hoards, in coin collections, and in jewelry. > > However, a lot of silver is used in ways that prevent recovery. In the > finished product it is so dilute that recycling is not economically > viable. > > The world supply of above-ground silver consist of those hoards, from > recycled industrial waste, and some amount from newly mined ore. > However, there are very few mines where silver is the primary metal > recovered. It is a secondary mineral in both gold and copper mines, > but I only found one public company who listed silver as their primary > product. > > As Wayne pointed out, mining will increase the supply of silver if the > demand for gold or copper increases to the point where they reopen > closed and flooded shafts, -- or if the price of silver reaches the > point where it is economically viable to open the mine just for the > silver. If that last scenario ever happens copper and gold will > decline in value as they become a by-product of silver refining. > > And there seems to be a widespread belief that we are using up the > world supply of silver much faster than it is being released from > hoards or being recovered by recycling or from newly smelted ore. > Several web sites are touting the idea that we are beyond "peak > silver." > > I don't know if that's true or not but it's an interesting idea. After > reading all I can find about it I have conclded silver is the best > value in the precious metal group. And for jewelers and rockhounds who > like looking around old mines, that change in value could be > important. > > Grant > > > On 06 Jan 2006 06:55:53 -0800, Ted Kowalski wrote: >> Grant: >> I'm not sure what your question really aims for; but I'll take a crack at >> some of the aspects. >> >> Precious metals are primarily responding to the uncertainties in the >> world >> market; that is, war, terrorism, oil shortages, currency fluctuations and >> threats of inflation. If and when these uncertainties come under control >> the >> metals will settle into a stable range. >> >> All of the precious metals have higher consumption levels than mining >> provides and have been in this condition for years. Gold and silver have >> been in this condition for well over a decade, as I remember. Why? Many >> of >> the world's countries have been moving away from gold/silver standards >> and >> are selling off their hoards. If these hoards were dumped on the market >> the >> precious metals values would plummet; so they are released gradually. >> There >> are still hoards a plenty out there. >> >> Add to this, every time the precious metals rise in value people come out >> of >> the woodwork to sell old items from their attics. Back when gold reached >> $800 an ounce I sold my HS ring. I didn't wear it and I was happy to put >> it's value to work elsewhere. >> >> Plus, as mentioned by others; mining for precious metals is driven by >> relative value. We are not short of reserves in the ground. We lack the >> financial return to pursue many of those reserves. As the metals rise >> higher >> in price companies will review viability of mining specifically for the >> precious stuff. >> >> I live in Spotsylvania Virginia surrounded by small gold mines... Well, >> small in that very few were developed beyond pick and shovel. The few >> that >> were developed identified very large reserves. The reserves are low-grade >> and centered in populated neighborhoods; but they are substantial. When >> it >> comes to building a cyanide leach plant for extracting the gold it will >> take >> a high value to drive this; though I will not preclude a company trucking >> ore to a leach field elsewhere. >> >> There are similar reserves in North Carolina and Georgia in the East; and >> through many of the states out West. Basically the metals are in the >> ground >> and can be available for a price. >> >> So where are values going? Above all they are risky as long as countries >> are >> putting gold/silver/platinum reserves on the market. The real value >> though >> is well north of where they have been. Especially as demand in the orient >> (India, China, Japan, Korea) continues to climb. India where people wear >> their bank accounts is especially impacting gold. Is Gold a steal at $600 >> an >> oz? Frankly, I do not know and I've seen financial analyst reports that >> claim pro and con. >> >> The word on Wall Street is that with all of this volatility traders will >> again maintain precious metal portfolios. The key word here is >> volatility; >> profit is made when metals change value, not when they are stable. Keep >> your >> investments simple sensible and within reason. >> >> Ted >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer >> Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 8:25 AM >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver >> >> That wasn't a supergene deposit tho, was it? The old mines back in the >> 1800's had silver concentrations up in the double digit percent range. >> IIRC >> some were 30-40% silver. I had the impression that current mines were >> more >> in the few ounces per ton range. I may be using the supergene term >> incorrectly, I picked it up from on of McPhee's books. >> >> BK >> >> >> On 1/6/06, Wayne Rasmussen wrote: >> > >> > Hello Mr, Krammer, >> > >> > Sorry not so, the Silver supply in the Kellogg Idaho Silver/lead >> > district >> > stopped >> > due to the low price for silver, and not because it was depleted, >> > they have not even touched the biggest lode under those mountains >> > yet, shafts are flooded but can be brought into service again rather >> > quickly >> > I have been told by a miner that worked there for 22 years and was one >> > of >> > the last to leave ahead of the 130 degree f. water when the pumps were >> > shut >> > down. >> > . >> > Wayne >> > >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Jan 10 22:13:41 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Jan 10 22:13:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Silver mining, supergene deposits, etc References: <20060111031547.74246.qmail@web34611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c61676$2d623280$db96b2d1@TheBlackAdder> JR, thanks for telling some really good true ones. Rockhounds@drizzle has the best posts of any list, not only for rockhounding, I'm including the caving, magnetometry, and seismology lists I follow too. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:15 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Silver mining, supergene deposits, etc Hi: John McPhee, who was mentioned recently, is one of my favorite authors. He writes about everything and anything, ans is mostly published in the New Yorker. Many of his chosen topics are related either to nature (natural history), people and their habits, and geology. He has written a set of volumes that together make up a geologic history of North America. One of his books is in large part about a professor of geology who studies gold and silver mining in the American west, with an eye to locating a claimable site with a big dump of tailings, residue from the milling process. You see, back then they could only recover 90% of the precious metal from the ore, but now they can recover 99%, and the difference put his kids through college, and seemed to put him on easy street. He wasn't buying refined metal and betting that the price would go up, he was refining the metal, at a fixed cost, below the market value. Not the same thing at all. McPhee also told the story of a backhow operator, working in his backyard, who uncovered a tiny stripe of supergene deposit, mostly solid silver. Just a couple cubic yards was sufficient to put his kid through school. He said to the kids, "You should look at this, it's something no one else will ever see, because they're all been mined now!" IT was a tiny 8 foot strip of the deposit, accidently left behind a hundred years ago. But, you know, a Colorado truck driver just a few years ago stopped to relieve himself in the bushes by the road, and as he walked back to his rig, he stopped and looked at a big rock by the road. As he fooled with it, he saw that it was actually mostly gold, underneath. Now that puppy is in the Denver Museum, the biggest gold nugget from Colorado still in existance, if I recall correctly. The driver/miner got a $20,000 bonus. It was too big for him to carry by himself, or he might have made more, if he wasn't as honest as a good mountain man should be. You westerners correct me if I'm too far off here. Silver (and gold) is mostly found where they've already found it. There was a big gold strike in the south Pacific a few years ago, that turned out to be salted samples, and the geologist had a terrible accident, falling from a company helicopter. The money there was in the stock scam, I suppose. Enough for tonight, Keep on Rockin' JR --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos - Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we'll bind it! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dnorris at frii.com Wed Jan 11 00:49:49 2006 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Wed Jan 11 00:49:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver References: <003001c612d1$37e2c0b0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> <286212d22805364481d21dfc6f67e1d9@cox.net> Message-ID: <43C4C6AD.6000003@frii.com> I ounce had dream that I shot the fat jerk Bunker Hunt right in the forehead with a Sterling Silver arrowhead that I had molded and cast from a real arrowhead found by a student of mine outside Greeley, Colorado. It was the night after he testified in front of a Congressional committee investigating their activities in their effort to corner the Silver market. He thumbed his nose at the committee, even suggesting that several of them better go back and see how they were elected. I still cast and sell those arrowheads, but they will never be as pretty as it was stuck in that fat toad like head of his in my dream! Anyway, I remember a few things about that time. I think Silver went to just under $41.00 in just a matter of months, but only took a matter of weeks to fall back down under $5.00 per ounce. I told my parents to hold on to their Silver until it got close to $40.00 per ounce, but if it fell one dollar to sell it all. They did! I never paid over $17.00 per ounce because I had a supplier that wanted me to stay in business and they were certain that the prices could not be sustained. I was casting about 100 ounces a week or more and a lot of supplies to cast it. So they made me a deal at $17.00 with the agreement that I would cast it into jewelry (mostly my solid Sterling Silver pine cones), and not resell it for profit. Of course I did cast it into jewelry because I was getting close to $200 per ounce as Silver pine cones. Another thing I remember is full tea sets and hollowware sets, and collector coins that I melted down by the hundreds. I took a sledge hammer to many tea pots. Very few people really wanted to clean the stuff anymore anyway. I am starting to melt hundreds of ounces of spoons, forks and collector coins and bars per month now. I am still casting the pine cones (Mountain Alder Cones) and other cast jewelry. Coin shops are calling me all the time now with scrap for sell. I believe that if Silver gets higher, $20.00 or more, that it will be surprising at just how much will pour out of homes, especially more silverware sets that were handed down to another generation, since the Hunt brothers, that does not want to polish it! The other "hoard" that I do not know if it really exists, but I believe it does is the "Las Vegas" connection. When the Hunts were doing their thing, many, many shops opened up all over Denver. 20 or so, in every part of town. When Silver hit $8.00, I would go into these shops, stand there and watch them buy silver from the public at $5.00 to $6.00 per ounce. After all, if Silver is at $8.00 very few people will pay you $8.00 an ounce for it, and very few will sell it to you for $8.00 if it is going up. Anyway, I would watch them buy 10 ounces or so of spoons, forks, tea pots, whatever, and then I would offer them up to $16.00 an ounce. More than doubling their money in five minutes. They would all say, we are buying, not selling. I did some investigating and found that most of these were owned by people in Vegas. Now, I am just guessing, but it was an all cash business, and very few if any records. Only towards the end of the run, did the law enforcement agencies start demanding records be kept. As the price went up so did burglaries, so that was why record keeping become important. There was no interest in who was buying it, where the cash came from, or where the Silver went. I may have been a good way to "clean up" some ill gotten cash, millions. Ok you can laugh, but when Binnion (I think that was the name of the casino owner) was killed in Las Vegas, they arrested the friend of his stripper girl friend. Her name was Sandy Murphy. I know this because I frequently teach Silversmithing Classes at the Bead Jungle in Henderson, suburb of Las Vegas, owned by Sandy Murphy. No, not the same Sandy Murphy who was arrested for Binnion murder. Her other 'boy friend" was found with a back hoe, digging up thousands of ounces (I was told tens of thousands of ounces. Enough that he could not load it and haul it off, so he got caught trying) of Silver on Binnions estate the next day. Silver bars, coins, scrap and unmarked bullion bars so the story goes. He is still in jail, and somehow she was released after some years in jail. Where all that Silver went was not discussed. Some of you may know more details about this story. I saw a "Discover Channel" story about it years ago. Anyway, I do believe that a lot of Silver went to Vegas and still may be sitting there. I know there are coins in the machines, Silver coins, minted by the casinos, that you can win. I wonder just how much they look into where that silver comes from, who mints it, but more important how much was paid for the Silver, and how much the casinos pay for the coins after minting. Seems to me a paper trail that could be easily manipulated. One other memory of that time, and I believe will come into play if silver continues to rise. I needed a lot of Silver at that time, and still do. I got a call from someone back then asking if I wanted to buy silver from the Colorado mines. I did. So this "mine owner" would call me each week, I would meet him in Golden at the post office. He would hand me a bag of crudely poured silver bars, and I would hand him cash. At first I thought it might be stolen, but another reputable dealer knew these guys, and informed me they were small miners that just wanted to be on the "cash" side of the business. It made mining more profitable. I think we might see more of this if it get higher. There are some mines above old Central City. Eight or nine years ago, I stopped at one as some guys were leaving. I asked them what kind of mine it was. They replied that it was a Silver mine and a little gold, but they were just doing enough to keep it open. I told them I did not think that there was "Silver" mines. He explained to me that most all Silver mined in Colorado in the past, at least, was a secondary product of mining for gold. That rich Silver deposits were left alone for years, because the gold mines produced enough to keep the price of Silver so low that it was not worth mining only for Silver. They said that when the Hunt brothers did their thing, many mines were opened just to mine Silver, and they were still in operation as they were. When I started casting the pine cones, silver was under $2.00 per ounce in the early 70s. It seems like I even bought it for 75 cents. So all this made some sense to me. They told me that if Silver would get to $8.00 an ounce (at that time), they would go into full production and had plenty of high grade ore to mine. Who knows! One last thought of mine is that if it does go up, it becomes easier to sell Sterling Silver jewelry. People will think it is worth something again, and I think that will only help my sales and profit! Investment wise, I always thought it was a better investment than gold, especially when it is under $10.00 an ounce. After all the downside could only be that it could only go down $10.00 per ounce if it became worthless. Gold can fall that much in one day. If it goes up a dollar, it would be a 10% increase. If gold goes up $10.00 it would only be about a 2% increase. But, anyway, if I buy an ounce of Silver at even $20.00 per ounce, it will make at least 5 to 10 pieces of jewelry. I can easily sell those pieces for $20 to $30.00 each retail. Consider that I sell those 5 or 10 pieces at a wholesale price of only $10.00 each, I make $50.00 to $100.00. Better than sitting around worrying about what the spot price will be tomorrow. Even just used for Pine Needle Casting it will make 4 or 5 pieces that I sell for $20.00 each. Some of you know that I teach Silversmithing in my classroom in Estes Park, Colorado and online and on CDs. If you would like to learn Silversmithing or Casting, and turn that high priced Silver into jewelry, visit my web site at LearnSilver.com. I just finished my Casting Class on CD after two years of writing and taking hundreds of photos. Don Norris Colorado Academy of Silversmithing http://silverpinecones.homestead.com From luvjoplin024 at juno.com Wed Jan 11 05:00:32 2006 From: luvjoplin024 at juno.com (luvjoplin024@juno.com) Date: Wed Jan 11 05:02:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] thanks for the welcome Message-ID: <20060111.050129.21851.293077@webmail26.nyc.untd.com> I wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to answer my question. Graves Mountain Lodge is at the base of the mountain, and I actually work there and I think I am probably the only rockhunter that works there. The rose river runs through there so I have been hunting unakite there for about 2years. There are lots of nice pieces of unakite all through the rose river. What I found in the parking lot was in the ditch of the parking lot. Alot of it was drusy ( i think that is what you call it) and there were crystals they left behind that werent completly perfect. My friend actually found a tiny crystal that did have a perfect point on it. The rocks that looked like they had sawed it was red, and kind of made me think of agate. (please remember i am a beginner lol) I can try to send a couple pictures in email if someone would like me too. Thanks alot for your interest and the links. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Wed Jan 11 07:12:22 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jan 11 07:12:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Silver mining, supergene deposits, etc In-Reply-To: <20060111031547.74246.qmail@web34611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060111031547.74246.qmail@web34611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43C52056.4020502@att.net> J. R. Hodel wrote: > > You see, back then they could only recover 90% of the precious metal > from the ore, but now they can recover 99%, and the difference put > his kids through college, and seemed to put him on easy street. He I once spent a week at a molybdenum mine and mill in the vicinity of Dillon, CO. While exploring the area, I met a fellow whose job was locating old mines and prospects. He roamed the mountains and collected samples. His employers would evaluate the samples and decide whether reopening the mine was economically feasible. Many of the small mountain mines were drastically high-graded, since the miners could only pack so much on a mule :-) From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Jan 11 08:38:00 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Wed Jan 11 08:38:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] thanks for the welcome In-Reply-To: <20060111.050129.21851.293077@webmail26.nyc.untd.com> Message-ID: <002301c616cd$3af46600$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Luvjoplin024: I can't promise anything, but I would like to see the pictures. Ted@Crystalgems.com Unakite was in the back of my mind when you mentioned reddish rock near the Blue Ridge Mountains, but then so are slate and rust stained quartz. You've probably already eliminated unakite as the reddish rock. Some additional pieces of information could help. Fracture a piece of the rock to get an idea of it's reaction to stress (conchoidal, planar, homogeneous, irregular), scratch a piece of rock on a white surface to get a color scratch, scratch the rock with various items to get a hardness estimate. You can also estimate the specific gravity an essential characteristic for unknown minerals http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/density.htm. Also is the mineral magnetic? Or will it respond to magnetism? OK, the rocks came from the ditch; now for the nitty gritty. Are the rocks loose or are they a part of a larger rock mass? Basically, where one pocket has been found, others could be near (Every Rockhounds dream). If the rocks are loose, could they have rolled from a nearby rock mass? Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of luvjoplin024@juno.com Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:01 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] thanks for the welcome I wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to answer my question. Graves Mountain Lodge is at the base of the mountain, and I actually work there and I think I am probably the only rockhunter that works there. The rose river runs through there so I have been hunting unakite there for about 2years. There are lots of nice pieces of unakite all through the rose river. What I found in the parking lot was in the ditch of the parking lot. Alot of it was drusy ( i think that is what you call it) and there were crystals they left behind that werent completly perfect. My friend actually found a tiny crystal that did have a perfect point on it. The rocks that looked like they had sawed it was red, and kind of made me think of agate. (please remember i am a beginner lol) I can try to send a couple pictures in email if someone would like me too. Thanks alot for your interest and the links. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jan 11 09:19:45 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jan 11 09:19:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Silver mining, supergene deposits, etc In-Reply-To: <20060111031547.74246.qmail@web34611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060111031547.74246.qmail@web34611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060111084542.034b56b8@orerockon.com> That was the infamous Bre-X scam in March 1997. I was there doing the World Bank biological assessment (Busang River, Kalimantan, Indonesia, on Borneo). It was scary as all hell. I got out via chopper the day after the mine office "got a little hot" as the mine supervisor told me at 1 AM while he was watching from his porch drinking a beer (arson). I stayed overnight at the warehouse in Surinda waiting for a flight to Jakarta and didn't sleep a wink. The employees there were so nervous they looked like they were on crack, and no one would even talk to us. 3 days later Mike de Guzman "fell" from the same chopper (with chief geologist John Felderhof's size 10 boot imprint on his a$$ no doubt). They salted the cores they were drilling at the warehouse in Surinda with gold dust (60 oz. of river gold they bought in Jakarta for $21,000), then flew them to Australia for an "independent" analysis; Freeport-McMoran demanded their own analysis when they bought a huge chunk of Bre-X, showed up at the warehouse, demanded a box of cores, and flew them to their lab in Tasmania. Trace gold. That's when the crap hit the fan. Our office (Beak Consultants, out of Toronto) in Jakarta never got paid ($500k CAN) and closed. The jungle was cool though, and those old Dayaks with their teeth filed were outrageous lol (I think they used to eat the other other white meat - Dutchmen). Felderhof & Walsh (the scammers) holed up in their mansions in the Bahamas & the Cayman Islands; Walsh died a year later of an aneurysm (karma). Felderhof is still holed up in his mansion on Grand Cayman (no karma yet). Canada doesn't have an extradition arrangement with the Caymans (wow isn't that a coincidence). His trial is ongoing in CA. He is worth a minimum of $90 million CDN (what he made from selling his Bre-X shares). Hmm, who got the money from that one? At 07:15 PM 1/10/2006, you wrote: >There was a big gold strike in the south Pacific a few years ago, >that turned out to be salted samples, and the geologist had a >terrible accident, falling from a company helicopter. The money >there was in the stock scam, I suppose. > >Enough for tonight, > >Keep on Rockin' >JR Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From vance at sc.rr.com Wed Jan 11 11:11:54 2006 From: vance at sc.rr.com (Vance McCollum) Date: Wed Jan 11 11:13:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock Message-ID: <06d701c616e2$e29d08c0$eed73942@sc.rr.com> Hi, I am looking for a few types of rough rock that I can't seem to find anywhere on the internet (after a lot of searching) and I am hoping that some cabbers or rockhounds on the list might have some of them lying around that they might sell for a fair price. I am looking for rough rock, not slabs or specimen pieces, and probably only a pound or two of each type. The material I need will be turned into freeform and cabochon pendants, so I am not looking for low-grade, leftover material. I need some pretty good quality stuff to work with. And I have already looked on eBay and found very little or none of these materials, or in many cases, pieces much larger than I need. Here is what I would like to buy, if anyone has any: Nipoma marcasite, arizona tonto plume, tahoma agate jasper, forest fire plume, Morgan Hill poppy jasper, and Howardite (aka: rattlesnake skin agate). Some of you may know these rock types under different names...you know how that goes. So, if anyone has any to sell or knows where I can find some, I would appreciate the help. I know that many of you on more than one rock list may see this posting more than once, so I apologize for that in advance. Thanks. Vance McCollum --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dlzack825 at aol.com Wed Jan 11 11:25:02 2006 From: dlzack825 at aol.com (dlzack825@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 11 11:25:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent Mineral Trade Message-ID: <8C7E4FBDAE0F487-57C-12414@mblk-r17.sysops.aol.com> Hi all, I'm new to the List. Would anybody be interested in trading fluorescent minerals? I have a wide assortment of fluorescent minerals from the Northern New York region; most of the material is no longer available (i.e., zinc, wollastonite, talc, etc mines have been closed and the land has been reclaimed). I'm trying to increase the variety of my fluorescent mineral collection. Please email me at dlzack825@aol.com if anyone is interested. I will mail anyone interested a selection of ~15 small reference samples to keep and use to determine which minerals they would like to trade for. I will also include a list of fluorescent minerals available with thumbnail photos. Thanks, Dino --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Wed Jan 11 11:31:34 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Wed Jan 11 11:33:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] thanks for the welcome In-Reply-To: <002301c616cd$3af46600$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <002301c616cd$3af46600$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <43C55D16.3060901@hal-pc.org> Ted Kowalski wrote: >Some additional pieces of information could help. Fracture a piece of the >rock to get an idea of it's reaction to stress (conchoidal, planar, >homogeneous, irregular), scratch a piece of rock on a white surface to get a >color scratch, scratch the rock with various items to get a hardness >estimate. You can also estimate the specific gravity an essential >characteristic for unknown minerals >http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/density.htm. Also is the mineral >magnetic? Or will it respond to magnetism? > >Ted Kowalski >Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > Luvjoplin024: ... >Alot of it was drusy ( i think that is what you call it) and there were >crystals they left behind that werent completly perfect. My friend >actually found a tiny crystal that did have a perfect point on it. The >rocks that looked like they had sawed it was red, and kind of made me think >of agate. (please remember i am a beginner lol) I can try to send a couple >pictures in email if someone would like me too. Thanks alot for your >interest and the links. > > Whoa, Fred! "Fracture...conchoidal...planar...homogeneous...specific gravity..." We have a neophyte here, willing, but a newbie nonetheless. Maybe she ought to bust some of the rock with a hammer to see what it looks like. Does it break into big or little pieces? Are the pieces kind of regular or not? Do they show flat surfaces? Or maybe curvy ones like chipped glass? Was breaking the rock hard or easy? Did the hammer produce any powder? If not take a little piece and crush it to powder. What color is the powder? How does the rock feel in the hand? Is it heavy like lead or medium like iron or light like an aluminum pan? When you found it in the ditch did it seem like someone had dumped it there, or did the rain or whatever wash it down to where you found it? You said that there was one tiny point of a crystal and something that may be a "drusy" surface. Drusy means covered with tiny crystals, usually something like quartz, resembling maybe frosted sugar or tiny rock candy crystals. Does part of the rock look like that and the rest, the red part, like something else? Does the drusy part look like the lining of a cavity or hole, with the red rock surrounding it? ...? When we know some of these qualities, we can start to put names to them and be more specific. I don't mean to imply that your ideas and approach are not good ones; they are certainly good. And I like what you say. But maybe we could tweak them a bit to make it a bit clearer to someone who may not know all the terms. Just a suggestion. john From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jan 11 11:45:18 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Jan 11 11:50:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] thanks for the welcome References: <002301c616cd$3af46600$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <43C55D16.3060901@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <000e01c616e7$91c94120$0200a8c0@warren> When I get to it (*sigh* - sometime this month) this would be terrific information for the FAQ page...jabac, I think you just volunteered! Just kidding, only if you wanted to, but this is the sort of information that wants to be in the FAQ. If nothing else, now it's in the archives ;-) Julie > > Whoa, Fred! "Fracture...conchoidal...planar...homogeneous...specific > gravity..." > We have a neophyte here, willing, but a newbie nonetheless. Maybe she > ought to bust some of the rock with a hammer to see what it looks like. > Does it break into big or little pieces? Are the pieces kind of regular or > not? Do they show flat surfaces? Or maybe curvy ones like chipped glass? > Was breaking the rock hard or easy? Did the hammer produce any powder? If > not take a little piece and crush it to powder. What color is the powder? > How does the rock feel in the hand? Is it heavy like lead or medium like > iron or light like an aluminum pan? When you found it in the ditch did it > seem like someone had dumped it there, or did the rain or whatever wash it > down to where you found it? You said that there was one tiny point of a > crystal and something that may be a "drusy" surface. Drusy means covered > with tiny crystals, usually something like quartz, resembling maybe > frosted sugar or tiny rock candy crystals. Does part of the rock look like > that and the rest, the red part, like something else? Does the drusy part > look like the lining of a cavity or hole, with the red rock surrounding > it? ...? > > When we know some of these qualities, we can start to put names to them > and be more specific. > > I don't mean to imply that your ideas and approach are not good ones; they > are certainly good. And I like what you say. But maybe we could tweak them > a bit to make it a bit clearer to someone who may not know all the terms. > Just a suggestion. > > > john > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From silverado at frontiernet.net Wed Jan 11 10:38:35 2006 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (Gail) Date: Wed Jan 11 11:58:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock References: <06d701c616e2$e29d08c0$eed73942@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <001601c616de$3d6667b0$3fcb3243@gail7diqufk9xy> Please check our web site:RockStoreOnLine.com. we have stuff, lots of stuff and can send you pictures of more. We have jasper, petrified wood, and more . we also have about 130 cabs, identified,polished and for sale. The cabs are of different woods. But it sounds like you need colorful stuff. Let me know if we can help you. Gail Kling . silverado@frontiernet.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance McCollum" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock Hi, I am looking for a few types of rough rock that I can't seem to find anywhere on the internet (after a lot of searching) and I am hoping that some cabbers or rockhounds on the list might have some of them lying around that they might sell for a fair price. I am looking for rough rock, not slabs or specimen pieces, and probably only a pound or two of each type. The material I need will be turned into freeform and cabochon pendants, so I am not looking for low-grade, leftover material. I need some pretty good quality stuff to work with. And I have already looked on eBay and found very little or none of these materials, or in many cases, pieces much larger than I need. Here is what I would like to buy, if anyone has any: Nipoma marcasite, arizona tonto plume, tahoma agate jasper, forest fire plume, Morgan Hill poppy jasper, and Howardite (aka: rattlesnake skin agate). Some of you may know these rock types under different names...you know how that goes. So, if anyone has any to sell or knows where I can find some, I would appreciate the help. I know that many of you on more than one rock list may see this posting more than once, so I apologize for that in advance. Thanks. Vance McCollum --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jabac at hal-pc.org Wed Jan 11 12:04:11 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Wed Jan 11 12:05:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] thanks for the welcome In-Reply-To: <000e01c616e7$91c94120$0200a8c0@warren> References: <002301c616cd$3af46600$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <43C55D16.3060901@hal-pc.org> <000e01c616e7$91c94120$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <43C564BB.8050303@hal-pc.org> Julie Siebel wrote: > When I get to it (*sigh* - sometime this month) this would be terrific > information for the FAQ page...jabac, I think you just volunteered! > > Just kidding, only if you wanted to, but this is the sort of > information that wants to be in the FAQ. If nothing else, now it's in > the archives ;-) > > Julie > > > >> >> Whoa, Fred! "Fracture...conchoidal...planar...homogeneous...specific >> gravity..." >> We have a neophyte here, willing, but a newbie nonetheless. Maybe >> she ought to bust some of the rock with a hammer to see what it looks >> like. Does it break into big or little pieces? Are the pieces kind of >> regular or not? Do they show flat surfaces? Or maybe curvy ones like >> chipped glass? Was breaking the rock hard or easy? Did the hammer >> produce any powder? If not take a little piece and crush it to >> powder. What color is the powder? How does the rock feel in the hand? >> Is it heavy like lead or medium like iron or light like an aluminum >> pan? When you found it in the ditch did it seem like someone had >> dumped it there, or did the rain or whatever wash it down to where >> you found it? You said that there was one tiny point of a crystal and >> something that may be a "drusy" surface. Drusy means covered with >> tiny crystals, usually something like quartz, resembling maybe >> frosted sugar or tiny rock candy crystals. Does part of the rock look >> like that and the rest, the red part, like something else? Does the >> drusy part look like the lining of a cavity or hole, with the red >> rock surrounding it? ...? >> >> When we know some of these qualities, we can start to put names to >> them and be more specific. >> >> I don't mean to imply that your ideas and approach are not good ones; >> they are certainly good. And I like what you say. But maybe we could >> tweak them a bit to make it a bit clearer to someone who may not know >> all the terms. Just a suggestion. > Sure, Julie. Just give me a topic and I can generate an answer as obscure as anyone else. john From naturesemp at earthlink.net Wed Jan 11 12:09:08 2006 From: naturesemp at earthlink.net (Nature's Emporium) Date: Wed Jan 11 12:09:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock Message-ID: <43C565E4.8090600@earthlink.net> On 1/11/2006 10:38:35 AM, Gail (silverado@frontiernet.net) wrote: > Please check our web site:RockStoreOnLine.com. we have stuff, lots of > stuff We might be interested in some of your cabs. When I try your web site am getting a redirect error. Gloria From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jan 11 14:22:59 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jan 11 14:23:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock In-Reply-To: <06d701c616e2$e29d08c0$eed73942@sc.rr.com> References: <06d701c616e2$e29d08c0$eed73942@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060111140646.033b7ea8@orerockon.com> Is your rattlesnake skin equivalent to snakeskin agate from SE Oregon? A guy named Willy G apparently has Mt. Tahoma agate; I have been meaning to get there for years now (sigh)... info@digvisions.com ...I get Ebay hits for it too. At 11:11 AM 1/11/2006, you wrote: Hi, I am looking for a few types of rough rock that I can't seem to find anywhere on the internet (after a lot of searching) and I am hoping that some cabbers or rockhounds on the list might have some of them lying around that they might sell for a fair price. I am looking for rough rock, not slabs or specimen pieces, and probably only a pound or two of each type. The material I need will be turned into freeform and cabochon pendants, so I am not looking for low-grade, leftover material. I need some pretty good quality stuff to work with. And I have already looked on eBay and found very little or none of these materials, or in many cases, pieces much larger than I need. Here is what I would like to buy, if anyone has any: Nipoma marcasite, arizona tonto plume, tahoma agate jasper, forest fire plume, Morgan Hill poppy jasper, and Howardite (aka: rattlesnake skin agate). Some of you may know these rock types under different names...you know how that goes. So, if anyone has any to sell or knows where I can find some, I would appreciate the help. I know that many of you on more than one rock list may see this posting more than once, so I apologize for that in advance. Thanks. Vance McCollum Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Jan 11 15:30:04 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Jan 11 15:28:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock References: <06d701c616e2$e29d08c0$eed73942@sc.rr.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060111140646.033b7ea8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <000501c61706$f41cab40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Tim, here is a site that shows Howardite from Arizona which I think is what he wants. I have agate with Marcasite from Nipomo but not enough to sell any. I know of a 90 pound piece of excellent Morgan Valley Poppy Jasper, but it is being sold to a dealer for $10/pound. Who knows what the dealer will sell it for. I would love to get some of what is being asked for at reasonable prices. Look under the West's Best at this site: http://www.rockrough.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Vance McCollum" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock > > > Is your rattlesnake skin equivalent to snakeskin agate from SE Oregon? > > > A guy named Willy G apparently has Mt. Tahoma agate; I have been meaning > to get there for years now (sigh)... > info@digvisions.com > ...I get Ebay hits for it too. > > > At 11:11 AM 1/11/2006, you wrote: > > Hi, > > I am looking for a few types of rough rock that I can't seem > to find anywhere on the internet (after a lot of searching) and I am > hoping that some cabbers or rockhounds on the list might have some of > them lying around that they might sell for a fair price. I am looking for > rough rock, not slabs or specimen pieces, and probably only a pound or > two of each type. The material I need will be turned into freeform and > cabochon pendants, so I am not looking for low-grade, leftover material. > I need some pretty good quality stuff to work with. And I have already > looked on eBay and found very little or none of these materials, or in > many cases, pieces much larger than I need. Here is what I would > like to buy, if anyone has any: > > > Nipoma marcasite, arizona tonto plume, tahoma agate jasper, forest fire > plume, Morgan Hill poppy jasper, and Howardite (aka: rattlesnake skin > agate). > > > Some of you may know these rock types under different names...you know > how that goes. So, if anyone has any to sell or knows where I can find > some, I would appreciate the help. > > > I know that many of you on more than one rock list may see this posting > more than once, so I apologize for that in advance. > > > Thanks. > > > Vance McCollum > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: > http://OreRockOn.com > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds at adelphia.net Wed Jan 11 15:56:19 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Wed Jan 11 15:56:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock In-Reply-To: <06d701c616e2$e29d08c0$eed73942@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <001501c6170a$9e6886c0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Vance MY favorite e-bay seller is brian@costigansminerals.com I get many types and all sizes from him. Always high quality and shipped very well. He is in Colorado and has tons of rough of all kinds. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Vance McCollum Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 11:12 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock Hi, I am looking for a few types of rough rock that I can't seem to find anywhere on the internet (after a lot of searching) and I am hoping that some cabbers or rockhounds on the list might have some of them lying around that they might sell for a fair price. I am looking for rough rock, not slabs or specimen pieces, and probably only a pound or two of each type. The material I need will be turned into freeform and cabochon pendants, so I am not looking for low-grade, leftover material. I need some pretty good quality stuff to work with. And I have already looked on eBay and found very little or none of these materials, or in many cases, pieces much larger than I need. Here is what I would like to buy, if anyone has any: Nipoma marcasite, arizona tonto plume, tahoma agate jasper, forest fire plume, Morgan Hill poppy jasper, and Howardite (aka: rattlesnake skin agate). Some of you may know these rock types under different names...you know how that goes. So, if anyone has any to sell or knows where I can find some, I would appreciate the help. I know that many of you on more than one rock list may see this posting more than once, so I apologize for that in advance. Thanks. Vance McCollum --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From silverado at frontiernet.net Wed Jan 11 15:07:18 2006 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (Gail) Date: Wed Jan 11 16:07:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock References: <06d701c616e2$e29d08c0$eed73942@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <003401c61703$c7703c40$3fcb3243@gail7diqufk9xy> Did I neglect to say we have lots of rough for sale and will send pictures of your preferences. Gail. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance McCollum" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock Hi, I am looking for a few types of rough rock that I can't seem to find anywhere on the internet (after a lot of searching) and I am hoping that some cabbers or rockhounds on the list might have some of them lying around that they might sell for a fair price. I am looking for rough rock, not slabs or specimen pieces, and probably only a pound or two of each type. The material I need will be turned into freeform and cabochon pendants, so I am not looking for low-grade, leftover material. I need some pretty good quality stuff to work with. And I have already looked on eBay and found very little or none of these materials, or in many cases, pieces much larger than I need. Here is what I would like to buy, if anyone has any: Nipoma marcasite, arizona tonto plume, tahoma agate jasper, forest fire plume, Morgan Hill poppy jasper, and Howardite (aka: rattlesnake skin agate). Some of you may know these rock types under different names...you know how that goes. So, if anyone has any to sell or knows where I can find some, I would appreciate the help. I know that many of you on more than one rock list may see this posting more than once, so I apologize for that in advance. Thanks. Vance McCollum --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 18:13:36 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jan 11 18:13:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Augustine erupts Message-ID: As predicted Mt Augustine has erupted: http://www.avo.alaska.edu/activity/Augustine.php BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jan 11 20:06:24 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 11 20:00:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Augustine erupts References: Message-ID: <43C5D442.5011@Tomaszewski.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > As predicted Mt Augustine has erupted: > > http://www.avo.alaska.edu/activity/Augustine.php > > BK Brian, I'm interested in earthquake and volcano predictions and precursor details. Can you point me to where it was predicted? I somehow missed it. Kreigh From TomE61 at aol.com Wed Jan 11 20:04:20 2006 From: TomE61 at aol.com (TomE61@aol.com) Date: Wed Jan 11 20:04:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Franklin NC Rock and Mineral Trips Message-ID: <2c7.1b33275.30f72f44@aol.com> Steve & Marilyn: I spent about 8 days in North Carolina in August 2005 and had a great time exploring and collecting. There are SO many places to go, and in the time I was there, I was only able to visit a fraction of them. If you need more detailed information or have any specific questions, please contact me offline. I'd be very happy to help. But for simple purposes, I'll give you and the group some of the highlights. FIRST, if you haven't already done so, secure a copy of "Rock, Gem and Mineral Collecting Sites in Western North Carolina" by Richard James Jacquot, Jr. The book is one of the best of its kind. Although its a couple of years old, the majority of the information is still good, especially when it comes to public access areas that don't require an entrance fee. [Its good to know that progress doesn't come too quickly to North Carolina; no strip malls covering over an abundant corundum area.] Jacquot is something of an expert on mineral collecting in the South; I met him last year and he was a wealth of information. He has plans to publish an update to his book, but I wouldn't wait for that to happen. SECOND, if you have time and know exactly where you want to go in NC, contact the county Chambers of Commerce and tell them of your interest. Many of the chambers replied to me with good information and although you will find that they tend to promote businesses, many private owners in the area will only deal with people who have contacted them through the chamber. THIRD, as far as fee-collecting mines in NC, there are TONS of them, some better than others. I would strongly recommend the Mason Mountain Mine in Franklin County; the owners are wonderful people, the gift shop is enormous with extremely reasonable prices and a great selection, their son is named Tom (just like me) and access to the mine is very very reasonable. When I was there, a couple from Pennsylvania had spent an entire week in this one place and had an enviable collection of corundum (rubies and sapphires). The address is 5315 Bryson City Road (Highway 28 North), Franklin NC 28734. The phone number is (828) 524-4570 and the owners are Brown and Martha Johnson. There is another Mason mine in the area, called Mason's Ruby & Sapphire Mine and I would hope that you don't confuse the two, or go to this one instead of the Mason Mountain Mine I mentioned above. Despite what Jacquot writes in his book and what he told me in person, a trip to Mason's Ruby & Sapphire Mine (and I want to be nice here) is akin to a trip back in time, when there was little, if any, civilization in evidence. The pickings are almost non-existent, the mine hasn't been worked in years, the entrance fee of $15.00 is exorbitant, the on-site attendants have no interest in insuring your enjoyment and I wouldn't let my dog use the outdoor facilities. The only positive thing I can say about MR&S Mine is that the sluice operation is one of the largest and best I've ever seen. Too bad its overkill for what people get out of the digs. FOURTH, two places that you MUST visit are the Ray Mica Mine in Yancey County (no fee; public access) and the Little Pine Garnet Mine in Madison County. The Ray Mica Mine is a HUGE dump, like a sliding hill, that yielded some nice stuff. Its a large place, and even has another "little" mine dump to the north and you could easily spend an entire day here. The mica here is some of the most unusual I've ever seen (I am definitely a mica person), with blades and crystals of every imaginable shape. I found at least three beryl crystals in matrix, a nice piece of blue-bladed kyanite and decent size pieces of black tourmaline (shorl). And I was only there for about three hours. The Little Pine Garnet mine has a creek that you can dig in or you can go into the mine itself (actually a cave) and dig out the garnets there. You will definitely need some heavy duty tools and a huge miner's lamp, since its dark inside. Its also VERY slippery. Its also very challenging. Its not a place for children or the faint of heart. Having said that, the garnets here range from the usual 12-sided almandine variety to hybrid-shaped garnets that you have to dig out of the surrounding walls. BUT, in all cases, the garnets are usually as large as a golf ball. In fact, I got one almost the size of a baseball. It took a LOT of work, but I dismissed every bump and bruise on my posterior with the fact that I got some nice specimens from there. Again, you could spend a lot of time here and work up a sweat but if you like "avant-garde" garnets, you will definitely enjoy your visit here. FIFTH and finally, there is a gift shop called "Rocks and More" Rock & Gift Shop on Highway 441 S (which is the main highway between Franklin and Asheville). This is one shop that should be used as a standard against which to measure others. Inside, there is an enormous collection of material, including the usual lamps, globes and jewelry, but outside, there is a HUGE collection of raw material, at ridiculously low prices, that you can pick and choose from. The owner even has a private stash that he may let you look it; I managed to get some nice raw sapphires from him. This store is open ALL year round and is definitely worth a trip. The address is 3251 Highway 441 S, two miles south of Dillsboro. If you are travelling south on 441, its on the left hand side. The owner's son-in-law also knows some good places in the area to dig for corundum. Well thats it for now. I apologize to anyone who feels I've overextended my bandwidth, but obviously I enjoyed myself in NC and really wanted to share some of my experiences with others. In fact, I'm already planning a return trip in August of 2006. I'm even trying to get the Geology Department at Columbia U to sponsor us on a field trip down there (for credit) since the NC landscape is not only one of the most beautiful I've ever seen, but the geology would provide more than enough field experience for anyone serious about the earth's physical makeup. Here's wishing everyone on the list a happy, healthy and safe New Year, and opportunities for unprecedented collecting in 2006 ! Warmest Regards, Tom Russell P.S. A warning for NC visitors. You can stay in either Asheville or Franklin and fan out from either location to go collecting, but if you DO stay in Asheville, avoid the Best Western Biltmore West. I am a big fan of Best Western and have stayed at their hotels literally hundreds of times, but this particular place was the absolute worst. In fact, BW, based on my comments and displeasure, sent me a $100 BW Travel Card to use for future trips, in part because my description of the experience was so horrific. Forewarned is forearmed ! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 20:15:20 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jan 11 20:15:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Augustine erupts In-Reply-To: <43C5D442.5011@Tomaszewski.net> References: <43C5D442.5011@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: I just saw a news report a day or so ago, I assume it originated from the AVO, and I recall seeing something else a few weeks ago that mentioned the increasing activity on the mountain but offhand I'm not sure where that came from. Apparently not from Worldnet. http://shrinkster.com/atg BK On 1/11/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > As predicted Mt Augustine has erupted: > > > > http://www.avo.alaska.edu/activity/Augustine.php > > > > BK > > Brian, > > I'm interested in earthquake and volcano predictions and precursor > details. Can you point me to where it was predicted? I somehow missed > it. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 20:19:47 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jan 11 20:19:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Franklin NC Rock and Mineral Trips In-Reply-To: <2c7.1b33275.30f72f44@aol.com> References: <2c7.1b33275.30f72f44@aol.com> Message-ID: Wow great info dump! We plan to do some camping soon, up in GSMNP and this will make that a lot more interesting. BK On 1/11/06, TomE61@aol.com wrote: > > Steve & Marilyn: > > I spent about 8 days in North Carolina in August 2005 and had a great time > exploring and collecting. There are SO many places to go, and in the > time I > was there, I was only able to visit a fraction of them. If you need more > detailed information or have any specific questions, please contact > me offline. > I'd be very happy to help. But for simple purposes, I'll give you and > the > group some of the highlights. > > FIRST, if you haven't already done so, secure a copy of "Rock, Gem and > Mineral Collecting Sites in Western North Carolina" by Richard James > Jacquot, Jr. > The book is one of the best of its kind. Although its a couple of years > old, the majority of the information is still good, especially when > it comes to > public access areas that don't require an entrance fee. [Its good to know > that progress doesn't come too quickly to North Carolina; no strip malls > covering over an abundant corundum area.] > > Jacquot is something of an expert on mineral collecting in the South; I > met > him last year and he was a wealth of information. He has plans to > publish an > update to his book, but I wouldn't wait for that to happen. > > SECOND, if you have time and know exactly where you want to go in NC, > contact the county Chambers of Commerce and tell them of your interest. > Many of > the chambers replied to me with good information and although you > will find > that they tend to promote businesses, many private owners in the area > will only > deal with people who have contacted them through the chamber. > > THIRD, as far as fee-collecting mines in NC, there are TONS of them, some > better than others. I would strongly recommend the Mason Mountain Mine in > Franklin County; the owners are wonderful people, the gift shop is > enormous with > extremely reasonable prices and a great selection, their son is named Tom > (just like me) and access to the mine is very very reasonable. When I > was there, > a couple from Pennsylvania had spent an entire week in this one place and > had an enviable collection of corundum (rubies and sapphires). The > address is > 5315 Bryson City Road (Highway 28 North), Franklin NC 28734. The phone > number is (828) 524-4570 and the owners are Brown and Martha Johnson. > > There is another Mason mine in the area, called Mason's Ruby & > Sapphire Mine > and I would hope that you don't confuse the two, or go to this one instead > of the Mason Mountain Mine I mentioned above. Despite what Jacquot > writes in > his book and what he told me in person, a trip to Mason's Ruby & Sapphire > Mine (and I want to be nice here) is akin to a trip back in time, when > there was > little, if any, civilization in evidence. The pickings are almost > non-existent, the mine hasn't been worked in years, the entrance fee of > $15.00 is > exorbitant, the on-site attendants have no interest in insuring > your enjoyment > and I wouldn't let my dog use the outdoor facilities. The only positive > thing > I can say about MR&S Mine is that the sluice operation is one of the > largest > and best I've ever seen. Too bad its overkill for what people get out of > the > digs. > > FOURTH, two places that you MUST visit are the Ray Mica Mine in Yancey > County (no fee; public access) and the Little Pine Garnet Mine in > Madison County. > The Ray Mica Mine is a HUGE dump, like a sliding hill, that yielded some > nice stuff. Its a large place, and even has another "little" mine dump > to the > north and you could easily spend an entire day here. The mica here is > some of > the most unusual I've ever seen (I am definitely a mica person), with > blades > and crystals of every imaginable shape. I found at least three beryl > crystals in matrix, a nice piece of blue-bladed kyanite and decent size > pieces of > black tourmaline (shorl). And I was only there for about three hours. > > The Little Pine Garnet mine has a creek that you can dig in or you can go > into the mine itself (actually a cave) and dig out the garnets > there. You will > definitely need some heavy duty tools and a huge miner's lamp, since its > dark inside. Its also VERY slippery. Its also very challenging. Its not > a > place for children or the faint of heart. Having said that, the garnets > here > range from the usual 12-sided almandine variety to hybrid-shaped garnets > that > you have to dig out of the surrounding walls. BUT, in all cases, the > garnets > are usually as large as a golf ball. In fact, I got one almost the size > of a > baseball. It took a LOT of work, but I dismissed every bump and bruise > on my > posterior with the fact that I got some nice specimens from > there. Again, > you could spend a lot of time here and work up a sweat but if you like > "avant-garde" garnets, you will definitely enjoy your visit here. > > FIFTH and finally, there is a gift shop called "Rocks and More" Rock > & Gift > Shop on Highway 441 S (which is the main highway between Franklin and > Asheville). This is one shop that should be used as a standard > against which to > measure others. Inside, there is an enormous collection of material, > including > the usual lamps, globes and jewelry, but outside, there is a HUGE > collection > of raw material, at ridiculously low prices, that you can pick and choose > from. The owner even has a private stash that he may let you look it; I > managed > to get some nice raw sapphires from him. This store is open ALL year > round > and is definitely worth a trip. The address is 3251 Highway 441 S, two > miles > south of Dillsboro. If you are travelling south on 441, its on the left > hand side. The owner's son-in-law also knows some good places in the > area to > dig for corundum. > > Well thats it for now. I apologize to anyone who feels I've overextended > my > bandwidth, but obviously I enjoyed myself in NC and really wanted to > share > some of my experiences with others. In fact, I'm already planning a > return > trip in August of 2006. I'm even trying to get the Geology Department at > Columbia U to sponsor us on a field trip down there (for credit) since > the NC > landscape is not only one of the most beautiful I've ever seen, but the > geology > would provide more than enough field experience for anyone serious about > the > earth's physical makeup. > > Here's wishing everyone on the list a happy, healthy and safe New Year, > and > opportunities for unprecedented collecting in 2006 ! > > Warmest Regards, > Tom Russell > > P.S. A warning for NC visitors. You can stay in either Asheville or > Franklin and fan out from either location to go collecting, but if you DO > stay in > Asheville, avoid the Best Western Biltmore West. I am a big fan of Best > Western and have stayed at their hotels literally hundreds of times, but > this > particular place was the absolute worst. In fact, BW, based on my > comments and > displeasure, sent me a $100 BW Travel Card to use for future trips, in > part > because my description of the experience was so horrific. Forewarned is > forearmed ! > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From folmstead at rcn.com Wed Jan 11 21:03:18 2006 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Wed Jan 11 21:03:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Augustine volcano, Alaska In-Reply-To: <286212d22805364481d21dfc6f67e1d9@cox.net> References: <003001c612d1$37e2c0b0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> <286212d22805364481d21dfc6f67e1d9@cox.net> Message-ID: <43C5E316.3000703@rcn.com> HI FYI GeorgiaO Channel 29 news Augustine volcano Alaska Cook Inlet 2006 eruption 5:13 Wednesday and 4:44 a.m. 18132 1883 1935 1963-1964 1976 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Jan 11 21:07:02 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Jan 11 21:07:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] supply & demand for silver In-Reply-To: <43C4C6AD.6000003@frii.com> References: <003001c612d1$37e2c0b0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> <286212d22805364481d21dfc6f67e1d9@cox.net> <43C4C6AD.6000003@frii.com> Message-ID: Thanks for all the replies. And this thread brought out a lot of good stories. I had heard of Binnion's hoard. It was buried outside of Vegas, in the same town where Art Bell lives. And I like the story about the silver arrow head in Bunker Hunt. It sounds like you have earned more money with silver than the Hunt's did. Everything I read indicates the demand for silver is greater than the supply. It is being mined, and there's a lot still in the ground, but the above ground supply is dwindling. I'm leaving for Avi and Quartzsite. Grant On 1/11/06, Don Norris wrote: > I ounce had dream that I shot the fat jerk Bunker Hunt right in the > forehead with a Sterling Silver arrowhead that I had molded and cast > from a real arrowhead found by a student of mine outside Greeley, > Colorado. It was the night after he testified in front of a > Congressional committee investigating their activities in their effort > to corner the Silver market. He thumbed his nose at the committee, even > suggesting that several of them better go back and see how they were > as pretty as it was stuck in that fat toad like head of his in my dream! > > Anyway, I remember a few things about that time. I think Silver went to > just under $41.00 in just a matter of months, but only took a matter of > weeks to fall back down under $5.00 per ounce. I told my parents to hold > on to their Silver until it got close to $40.00 per ounce, but if it > fell one dollar to sell it all. They did! I never paid over $17.00 per > ounce because I had a supplier that wanted me to stay in business and > they were certain that the prices could not be sustained. I was casting > about 100 ounces a week or more and a lot of supplies to cast it. So > they made me a deal at $17.00 with the agreement that I would cast it > into jewelry (mostly my solid Sterling Silver pine cones), and not > resell it for profit. Of course I did cast it into jewelry because I was > getting close to $200 per ounce as Silver pine cones. > > Another thing I remember is full tea sets and hollowware sets, and > collector coins that I melted down by the hundreds. I took a sledge > hammer to many tea pots. Very few people really wanted to clean the > stuff anymore anyway. I am starting to melt hundreds of ounces of > spoons, forks and collector coins and bars per month now. I am still > casting the pine cones (Mountain Alder Cones) and other cast jewelry. > Coin shops are calling me all the time now with scrap for sell. I > believe that if Silver gets higher, $20.00 or more, that it will be > surprising at just how much will pour out of homes, especially more > silverware sets that were handed down to another generation, since the > Hunt brothers, that does not want to polish it! > > The other "hoard" that I do not know if it really exists, but I believe > it does is the "Las Vegas" connection. When the Hunts were doing their > thing, many, many shops opened up all over Denver. 20 or so, in every > part of town. When Silver hit $8.00, I would go into these shops, stand > there and watch them buy silver from the public at $5.00 to $6.00 per > ounce. After all, if Silver is at $8.00 very few people will pay you > $8.00 an ounce for it, and very few will sell it to you for $8.00 if it > is going up. Anyway, I would watch them buy 10 ounces or so of spoons, > forks, tea pots, whatever, and then I would offer them up to $16.00 an > ounce. More than doubling their money in five minutes. They would all > say, we are buying, not selling. I did some investigating and found that > most of these were owned by people in Vegas. Now, I am just guessing, > but it was an all cash business, and very few if any records. Only > towards the end of the run, did the law enforcement agencies start > demanding records be kept. As the price went up so did burglaries, so > that was why record keeping become important. There was no interest in > who was buying it, where the cash came from, or where the Silver went. I > may have been a good way to "clean up" some ill gotten cash, millions. > Ok you can laugh, but when Binnion (I think that was the name of the > casino owner) was killed in Las Vegas, they arrested the friend of his > stripper girl friend. Her name was Sandy Murphy. I know this because I > frequently teach Silversmithing Classes at the Bead Jungle in Henderson, > suburb of Las Vegas, owned by Sandy Murphy. No, not the same Sandy > Murphy who was arrested for Binnion murder. Her other 'boy friend" was > found with a back hoe, digging up thousands of ounces (I was told tens > of thousands of ounces. Enough that he could not load it and haul it > off, so he got caught trying) of Silver on Binnions estate the next day. > Silver bars, coins, scrap and unmarked bullion bars so the story goes. > He is still in jail, and somehow she was released after some years in > jail. Where all that Silver went was not discussed. Some of you may know > more details about this story. I saw a "Discover Channel" story about it > years ago. > > Anyway, I do believe that a lot of Silver went to Vegas and still may be > sitting there. I know there are coins in the machines, Silver coins, > minted by the casinos, that you can win. I wonder just how much they > look into where that silver comes from, who mints it, but more important > how much was paid for the Silver, and how much the casinos pay for the > coins after minting. Seems to me a paper trail that could be easily > manipulated. > > One other memory of that time, and I believe will come into play if > silver continues to rise. I needed a lot of Silver at that time, and > still do. I got a call from someone back then asking if I wanted to buy > silver from the Colorado mines. I did. So this "mine owner" would call > me each week, I would meet him in Golden at the post office. He would > hand me a bag of crudely poured silver bars, and I would hand him cash. > At first I thought it might be stolen, but another reputable dealer knew > these guys, and informed me they were small miners that just wanted to > be on the "cash" side of the business. It made mining more profitable. I > think we might see more of this if it get higher. > > There are some mines above old Central City. Eight or nine years ago, I > stopped at one as some guys were leaving. I asked them what kind of mine > it was. They replied that it was a Silver mine and a little gold, but > they were just doing enough to keep it open. I told them I did not think > that there was "Silver" mines. He explained to me that most all Silver > mined in Colorado in the past, at least, was a secondary product of > mining for gold. That rich Silver deposits were left alone for years, > because the gold mines produced enough to keep the price of Silver so > low that it was not worth mining only for Silver. They said that when > the Hunt brothers did their thing, many mines were opened just to mine > Silver, and they were still in operation as they were. When I started > casting the pine cones, silver was under $2.00 per ounce in the early > 70s. It seems like I even bought it for 75 cents. So all this made some > sense to me. They told me that if Silver would get to $8.00 an ounce (at > that time), they would go into full production and had plenty of high > grade ore to mine. Who knows! > > One last thought of mine is that if it does go up, it becomes easier to > sell Sterling Silver jewelry. People will think it is worth something > again, and I think that will only help my sales and profit! Investment > wise, I always thought it was a better investment than gold, especially > when it is under $10.00 an ounce. After all the downside could only be > that it could only go down $10.00 per ounce if it became worthless. Gold > can fall that much in one day. If it goes up a dollar, it would be a 10% > increase. If gold goes up $10.00 it would only be about a 2% increase. > But, anyway, if I buy an ounce of Silver at even $20.00 per ounce, it > will make at least 5 to 10 pieces of jewelry. I can easily sell those > pieces for $20 to $30.00 each retail. Consider that I sell those 5 or 10 > pieces at a wholesale price of only $10.00 each, I make $50.00 to > $100.00. Better than sitting around worrying about what the spot price > will be tomorrow. Even just used for Pine Needle Casting it will make 4 > or 5 pieces that I sell for $20.00 each. > > Some of you know that I teach Silversmithing in my classroom in Estes > Park, Colorado and online and on CDs. If you would like to learn > Silversmithing or Casting, and turn that high priced Silver into > jewelry, visit my web site at LearnSilver.com. I just finished my > Casting Class on CD after two years of writing and taking hundreds of > photos. > > Don Norris > Colorado Academy of Silversmithing > http://silverpinecones.homestead.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Jan 11 22:17:22 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Jan 11 22:17:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Augustine erupts Message-ID: <011220060617.7330.43C5F47000074E8F00001CA2216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Kreigh, Brian, List, I'm not sure if it's accurate to say that an eruption was "predicted", or not. Because of the general steam and seismic activity over the past few months, the Alaska Volcano Observatory has been watching Mt. Augustine closely. The last weekly report, from Jan. 6, said, ALASKA VOLCANO OBSERVATORY WEEKLY UPDATE Friday, January 6, 2006 12:00 PM AKST (2100 UTC) AUGUSTINE VOLCANO (CAVW#1103-01-) 59.3633°N 153.4333°W, Summit Elevation 4134 ft (1260 m) Current Level of Concern Color Code: YELLOW Unrest continues at Augustine Volcano. Seismicity rates increased slightly this week compared to last week. The last few days of this week offered clear views of the volcano and summit area in field observers photos, and in web cam and satellite images. The volcano continues to steam vigorously from several summit fumaroles. Steam and gas emissions are expected to continue and small steam explosions could occur at any time. There are no indications at this time that a large eruption is imminent. Augustine remains in color code YELLOW and AVO continues to monitor the situation closely. The first good weather in many days also allowed AVO scientists to visit the volcano to install additional seismic monitoring equipment and deploy additional ash collection devices this week. An AVO crew also conducted thermal surveys of the summit area on Wednesday using a helicopter mounted instrument. The high-temperature fumarole or gas vent high on the south flank of the volcano, previously reported on December 22, 2005, has cooled down significantly. However, AVO did detect higher temperatures at one summit fumarole imaged through the steam and gas. While fumarole temperatures have varied, there was no significant changes in the distribution of thermal features compared to the previous survey . A gas-measurement flight, also conducted on Wednesday, detected a significant increase in sulfur-dioxide compared to the December 20 flight. The latest observations continue to suggest that new magma is present beneath Augustine Volcano. Based on past eruptions at Augustine, AVO expects to see a sharp increase in earthquake activity prior to a significant explosive eruption. At this time, the level of seismicity is still well below that observed just prior to the 1986 eruption. However, small steam explosions are likely to continue to occur with no warning and could affect low-flying aircraft in the vicinity of the volcano. ------------------------------------------------------- Note that it said, in para. 1, "There are no indications at this time that a large eruption is imminent. ", and then in para. 2, "Based on past eruptions at Augustine, AVO expects to see a sharp increase in earthquake activity prior to a significant explosive eruption. " As has been noted in the news, about about 3-4 p.m. yesterday local time, increased seismic activity began in the form of many microearthquakes, which you can see for yourself if you go to the AVO website and look at the seismograph record for that time period. Yesterday evening (at about 9 p.m local time I believe) the AVO upgraded the eruption alert condition from "yellow" to "orange". The microearthquake swarm contined through the night, at the two explosions took place at 4:45 and 5:15. At 5:50, the USGS upgraded the alert condition to "red". So the increased alert status is response to the earthquake swarm was very correct, and the alert condition had been upgraded about 6-7 hours before the eruption took place. The upgrading to "red" was perhaps a bit after the fact, as it has been seismically quiet since then, though that could change, who knows when. Pete -------------- Original message from Kreigh Tomaszewski : -------------- > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > As predicted Mt Augustine has erupted: > > > > http://www.avo.alaska.edu/activity/Augustine.php > > > > BK > > Brian, > > I'm interested in earthquake and volcano predictions and precursor > details. Can you point me to where it was predicted? I somehow missed > it. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Jan 12 09:31:03 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Jan 12 09:31:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection of Newsletters Message-ID: Not wanting to be found amidst piles of papers, etc. I am going to part with my many years of collected Rock and Mineral Newsletters. Before I feed them to my recycle bin, is there anyone out there interested in having them. I plan to buy some stationary store "Stor-All" boxes with lids, pack each one full and ship them off to wherever. I do not see this as a get rich venture, cover the media rate shipping plus say $5.00 and they are yours. I will need a bit of time to gather and pack this, and as I start back to school next week, my trips to the Post Office will be limited. Thanks Terrie From afox at panix.com Thu Jan 12 09:33:33 2006 From: afox at panix.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Thu Jan 12 09:33:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Augustine erupts In-Reply-To: <43C5D442.5011@Tomaszewski.net> References: <43C5D442.5011@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Increasing harmonic tremor. http://www.avo.alaska.edu/images/valve/counts/Augustine.png According to friends at CVO, gas flights were started in December 2005 after the increase of the seismicity rate, and began noticing increased SO2. The combination of these two triggered the alert. No word as to whether deformation was observed. I doubt (though I'm certainly not sure) they had a whole lot of instrumentation on the mountain. Maybe a nearby seismometer, and perhaps a tiltmeter. The weather looked so foul, I doubt they had laser ranging data. There is a Jan 10 summary on the page below that Brian posted that restates most of this. a. > J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> As predicted Mt Augustine has erupted: >> >> http://www.avo.alaska.edu/activity/Augustine.php >> > Brian, > > I'm interested in earthquake and volcano predictions and precursor > details. Can you point me to where it was predicted? I somehow missed > it. > > Kreigh > -- afox at panix dot com || http://www.panix.com/~afox "Pluralitas non est ponda sine neccesitate" "Plurality should not be posited without necessity" -- William of Ockham (1285 - 1349 AD) From davisj at earthlink.net Thu Jan 12 12:11:41 2006 From: davisj at earthlink.net (Joe Davis) Date: Thu Jan 12 12:11:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Loratone grinder bushing replacement, How to do it?? Message-ID: Does Loratone use a bushing on each side of the 2 wheel grinder. What is the recommended way to get them out, and install new one for the hobbyist (who has lots of common tools). It looks like you remove a circ clip on one ends, loosen the set screws for the center pulley and drive the shaft our from that end. Then remove the busing with a long ??? and press the new bushing in. Hate 2 say it but my bushing removing tool has sometimes be a ratchet extension and just beat on it to remove the bushing. I know "shade tree" for the purist. In this case it appears you need a 18 inch tool to force the bushings out. Any advise appreciated. Joe Davis "Wrap It, I'll Take It" Shade Tree mechanic exemplary and other stuff From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Jan 12 12:58:52 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Jan 12 12:58:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Franklin NC Rock and Mineral Trips In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ditto on the great info you shared here...no concrete plans, but we want to make a Smokey Mtns collecting trip and camp some in that area too. We may trade a week of timeshare for a place to stay. (Jeanette, this is a hint!) Glenn From: J Bryan Kramer codeburner@gmail.com Wow great info dump! We plan to do some camping soon, up in GSMNP and this will make that a lot more interesting. BK On 1/11/06, TomE61@aol.com <TomE61@aol.com> wrote:  Steve & Marilyn:  I spent about 8 days in North Carolina in August 2005 and had a great time BIG CLIP  Here's wishing everyone on the list a happy, healthy and safe New Year, and  opportunities for unprecedented collecting in 2006 !  Warmest Regards,  Tom Russell ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ MSN Premium brings together everything you need on the Internet in 1 place, including PC security! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Thu Jan 12 16:55:29 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Thu Jan 12 16:42:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock References: <06d701c616e2$e29d08c0$eed73942@sc.rr.com> Message-ID: <00a701c617dc$0d17def0$2e7da118@feldsparflash> Vance, Our club the Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society in Poughkeepsie, NY has had a large donation to be sold 50/50 for the donors. Both members had been working in the hobby for a number of years and I am assuming there is material that hasn't been around for awhile.The material includes slabs and quite a bit of lapidary rough. We have just begun to sort and identify. If you or any other list member is interested we could send you photos of some of the material. Please send your request directly to me at sunstone3@hvc.rr.com Carolyn Reynard MHVGem&Mineral Society ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vance McCollum" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:11 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock Hi, I am looking for a few types of rough rock that I can't seem to find anywhere on the internet (after a lot of searching) and I am hoping that some cabbers or rockhounds on the list might have some of them lying around that they might sell for a fair price. I am looking for rough rock, not slabs or specimen pieces, and probably only a pound or two of each type. The material I need will be turned into freeform and cabochon pendants, so I am not looking for low-grade, leftover material. I need some pretty good quality stuff to work with. And I have already looked on eBay and found very little or none of these materials, or in many cases, pieces much larger than I need. Here is what I would like to buy, if anyone has any: Nipoma marcasite, arizona tonto plume, tahoma agate jasper, forest fire plume, Morgan Hill poppy jasper, and Howardite (aka: rattlesnake skin agate). Some of you may know these rock types under different names...you know how that goes. So, if anyone has any to sell or knows where I can find some, I would appreciate the help. I know that many of you on more than one rock list may see this posting more than once, so I apologize for that in advance. Thanks. Vance McCollum --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rockhounds at adelphia.net Thu Jan 12 20:23:17 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Thu Jan 12 20:22:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection of Newsletters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c617f9$14820a40$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> I would love to have them If they are still available Kelly rockhounds@adelphia.net -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Masters Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:31 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors; rockhounds@yahoogroups.com; RockhoundsList@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection of Newsletters Not wanting to be found amidst piles of papers, etc. I am going to part with my many years of collected Rock and Mineral Newsletters. Before I feed them to my recycle bin, is there anyone out there interested in having them. I plan to buy some stationary store "Stor-All" boxes with lids, pack each one full and ship them off to wherever. I do not see this as a get rich venture, cover the media rate shipping plus say $5.00 and they are yours. I will need a bit of time to gather and pack this, and as I start back to school next week, my trips to the Post Office will be limited. Thanks Terrie _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tangojuli at yahoo.com Thu Jan 12 20:27:09 2006 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Thu Jan 12 20:27:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] North Carolina thread In-Reply-To: <200601130202.k0D22ArB030766@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20060113042709.34000.qmail@web60823.mail.yahoo.com> Tom, thanks for the great recommendations on NC. A friend went a couple years ago but couldn't recall where she went and got great mateiral. This is top on my trips list and your info is really welcome. Thanks for sharing! t tuttle --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Jan 12 20:28:05 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Jan 12 20:28:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection of Newsletters In-Reply-To: <000201c617f9$14820a40$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> References: <000201c617f9$14820a40$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: Kelly, How many are you interested in? Where are you? I can put one box together and weigh it to get an idea of the postage. Terrie From rockhounds at adelphia.net Thu Jan 12 20:38:34 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Thu Jan 12 20:37:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection of Newsletters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c617fb$374bea30$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Terrie I am in Hayden Idaho the zip is 83835. (Near Spokane Washington.) Near Spokane Washington. I would like a bunch. Maybe all you have. My wife and I are 3 year (old) rock hounds and have much to learn. I have found newsletters have tons of tips and stories. I will cut them up for my scrap book. I hope there are stories on where to find !!!!!! So when I come to your area( where ever that may be) I will be prepared. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Masters Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:28 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Collection of Newsletters Kelly, How many are you interested in? Where are you? I can put one box together and weigh it to get an idea of the postage. Terrie _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Jan 12 20:59:14 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Jan 12 21:00:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection of Newsletters References: <000001c617fb$374bea30$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: <007e01c617fe$2ae60ed0$6602a8c0@remains> maybe this can be done offlist? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Hanson" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 9:38 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Collection of Newsletters > Terrie > > I am in Hayden Idaho the zip is 83835. (Near Spokane Washington.) Near > Spokane Washington. I would like a bunch. Maybe all you have. My wife and > I > are 3 year (old) rock hounds and have much to learn. I have found > newsletters have tons of tips and stories. I will cut them up for my scrap > book. I hope there are stories on where to find !!!!!! So when I come to > your area( where ever that may be) I will be prepared. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Masters > Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 8:28 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Collection of Newsletters > > > Kelly, > How many are you interested in? Where are you? I can put one box > together and weigh it to get an idea of the postage. > Terrie > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Jan 12 21:31:43 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Jan 12 21:31:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collection of Newsletters In-Reply-To: <007e01c617fe$2ae60ed0$6602a8c0@remains> References: <000001c617fb$374bea30$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> <007e01c617fe$2ae60ed0$6602a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <137d019aaf157c9523a01558d66f183e@cox.net> Begin forwarded message: > From: Teresa Masters > Date: January 12, 2006 8:50:13 PM PST > To: "Kelly Hanson" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Collection of Newsletters > > Kelly, > Let me get some together over the weekend and let you know what I > have. I am in Oceanside, Ca. so freight should be reasonable. > Terrie > Posting directly to you, some on list will consider this off topic. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From silverado at frontiernet.net Fri Jan 13 05:10:09 2006 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (Gail) Date: Fri Jan 13 06:10:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock References: <43C565E4.8090600@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002001c61842$b0547130$3fcb3243@gail7diqufk9xy> Gosh Whats a redirect error. We have had some power surges the last couple of days and that may have had some impact on the internet transmission. Try again and let me know if there is anything special you are looking for, maybe we have it! Thanks so much for attempting to access the site. Gail. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nature's Emporium" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock > On 1/11/2006 10:38:35 AM, Gail (silverado@frontiernet.net) wrote: > > Please check our web site:RockStoreOnLine.com. we have stuff, lots of > > stuff > > We might be interested in some of your cabs. When I try your web site am > getting a redirect error. > > Gloria > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jan 13 06:14:50 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jan 13 06:14:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor impacts Message-ID: National Geographic blog has an interesting article about the Sudbury and other astroblems: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0112_060112_meteorite.html?source=rss BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From naturesemp at earthlink.net Fri Jan 13 06:19:03 2006 From: naturesemp at earthlink.net (Nature's Emporium) Date: Fri Jan 13 06:19:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock Message-ID: <43C7B6D7.5030205@earthlink.net> If I just do a copy of the url RockStoreOnLine.com in either IE or Netscape get the redirect error and that the browser is not in compliance - both browsers are the up to date versions. And the following message The server is not configured properly for this domain. Please contact Athenet Technical Support. But if I use a little older one with www.rockstoreonline.com it works. Gloria On 1/13/2006 5:10:09 AM, Gail (silverado@frontiernet.net) wrote: > Gosh Whats a redirect error. We have had some power surges the last > couple > of days and that may have had some impact on the internet > transmission. Try > again and let me know if there is anything special you are looking for, > maybe we have it! > Thanks so much for attempting to access the site. > Gail. From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Fri Jan 13 06:38:06 2006 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Fri Jan 13 06:37:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock In-Reply-To: <002001c61842$b0547130$3fcb3243@gail7diqufk9xy> Message-ID: <200601131437.k0DEbn7l048301@cti06.citenet.net> Gail, Some browsers will give that error if the full address is not entered. If someone puts http://RockStoreOnLine.com they will get that error with Firefox or Internet Explorer( with auto filling of WWW turned off) they will get the error. The person needs to put in http://www.RockStoreOnLine.com to get to your site. Kay Some versions of Netscrape and Internet explorer will add the www automatically, others don't -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gail Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 8:10 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock Gosh Whats a redirect error. We have had some power surges the last couple of days and that may have had some impact on the internet transmission. Try again and let me know if there is anything special you are looking for, maybe we have it! Thanks so much for attempting to access the site. Gail. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nature's Emporium" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock > On 1/11/2006 10:38:35 AM, Gail (silverado@frontiernet.net) wrote: > > Please check our web site:RockStoreOnLine.com. we have stuff, lots of > > stuff > > We might be interested in some of your cabs. When I try your web site am > getting a redirect error. > > Gloria > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jabac at hal-pc.org Fri Jan 13 07:58:06 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Fri Jan 13 07:59:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Loratone grinder bushing replacement, How to do it?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43C7CE0E.40407@hal-pc.org> Joe Davis wrote: >Does Loratone use a bushing on each side of the 2 wheel grinder. What is >the >recommended way to get them out, and install new one for the hobbyist (who >has lots of common tools). It looks like you remove a circ clip on one >ends, loosen the set screws for the center pulley and drive the shaft our >from that end. Then remove the busing with a long ??? and press the new >bushing in. Hate 2 say it but my bushing removing tool has sometimes be a >ratchet extension and just beat on it to remove the bushing. I know "shade >tree" for the purist. In this case it appears you need a 18 inch tool to >force the bushings out. Any advise appreciated. > >Joe Davis >"Wrap It, I'll Take It" >Shade Tree mechanic exemplary and other stuff > > I presume this is not a motor with dual extended shafts since you mention a center pulley. Try NOT to use any kind of metal tool to drive the shaft out of its "bushing". The bushing is most likely a bearing and pounding on the end of the shaft may, and probably will mushroom it. Then it will have to be sanded down with emory cloth to get it to clear the internal race of the bearing. Removing the circlip will probably allow you to pull the shaft out. If it won't come, either press it out with a hydraulic press or try to GENTLY tap it out with a wooden mallet. When the shaft is clear, you can tap out the other bearing, if there is one. Always push in the direction of the removed circlip because there may be more circlips inside the housing which will keep the shaft from moving opposite. If it fails to move, you may have to unbolt the housings to allow enough horizontal movement for the shaft to clear. Mark the locations of the housings before you loosen them, and reinstall in the same place. Then you will have to find the proper bearing(s) to replace the one(s) taken out. Replace all the bearings at once. Alternatively, you might have actual phosphor-bronze bushings (Unlikely unless the shaft is more than 1 1/2" in diameter.) In that case locate the bushings before you begin to tear anything apart. They are not so easy to find. Again replace them all at once. If the assembly is old and very corroded but the shaft is more or less intact, consider replacing the bearings and housings as a unit. Remove the shaft and polish it with emory/crocus cloth to restore it, and install it in its new housings. john From silverado at frontiernet.net Fri Jan 13 08:51:04 2006 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (Gail) Date: Fri Jan 13 08:51:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock References: <43C7B6D7.5030205@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000a01c61861$8ce881e0$3fcb3243@gail7diqufk9xy> OK. THanks for that info. I will get back to the guy who set this up and see if he can fix that. I often wondered about access and sure appreciate the help. I will save your email for him. Also, did you get to see anything on the site ? Or did I not understand that part. Gail. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nature's Emporium" To: Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock > If I just do a copy of the url RockStoreOnLine.com in either IE or > Netscape get the redirect error and that the browser is not in > compliance - both browsers are the up to date versions. And the following > message The server is not configured properly for this domain. Please > contact Athenet Technical Support. But if I use a little older one with > www.rockstoreonline.com it works. > > Gloria > > > > > On 1/13/2006 5:10:09 AM, Gail (silverado@frontiernet.net) wrote: > > Gosh Whats a redirect error. We have had some power surges the last > > couple > > of days and that may have had some impact on the internet > > transmission. Try > > again and let me know if there is anything special you are looking for, > > maybe we have it! > > Thanks so much for attempting to access the site. > > Gail. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From silverado at frontiernet.net Fri Jan 13 08:52:33 2006 From: silverado at frontiernet.net (Gail) Date: Fri Jan 13 08:53:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock References: <200601131437.k0DEbn7l048301@cti06.citenet.net> Message-ID: <000f01c61861$c22951e0$3fcb3243@gail7diqufk9xy> I just love this rockhounds drizzle, I get an education in so many ways and sincerely appreciate it! Thanks so much. I will get this info to the guy who set up our site. Gail. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Davis" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:38 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock > Gail, > > Some browsers will give that error if the full address is not > entered. If someone puts http://RockStoreOnLine.com they will get that > error > with Firefox or Internet Explorer( with auto filling of WWW turned off) > they > will get the error. The person needs to put in > http://www.RockStoreOnLine.com to get to your site. > > Kay > > Some versions of Netscrape and Internet explorer will add the www > automatically, others don't > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gail > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 8:10 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock > > Gosh Whats a redirect error. We have had some power surges the last > couple > of days and that may have had some impact on the internet transmission. > Try > again and let me know if there is anything special you are looking for, > maybe we have it! > Thanks so much for attempting to access the site. > Gail. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Nature's Emporium" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 3:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock > > >> On 1/11/2006 10:38:35 AM, Gail (silverado@frontiernet.net) wrote: >> > Please check our web site:RockStoreOnLine.com. we have stuff, lots of >> > stuff >> >> We might be interested in some of your cabs. When I try your web site am >> getting a redirect error. >> >> Gloria >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From naturesemp at earthlink.net Fri Jan 13 08:59:13 2006 From: naturesemp at earthlink.net (Nature's Emporium) Date: Fri Jan 13 08:59:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for rough rock Message-ID: <43C7DC61.90403@earthlink.net> > the help. I will save your email for him. > Also, did you get to see anything on the site ? Or did I not understand Once you enter the www.------ acces is fine From bigred at grantspass.com Fri Jan 13 09:31:01 2006 From: bigred at grantspass.com (Richard and Jan Arnold) Date: Fri Jan 13 09:30:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AGATES SOUTHERN OREGON NORTHERN CALIFORNIA BEACHES Message-ID: <43C7E3D5.6000302@grantspass.com> Can anyone suggest beaches Northern California and Southern Oregon which might be good agate beaches. Sunday looks like a wonderful (relative) weather day and we would love to go the beach. Jan From spocksrocks at hotmail.com Fri Jan 13 10:47:52 2006 From: spocksrocks at hotmail.com (Scott Blair) Date: Fri Jan 13 10:47:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AGATES SOUTHERN OREGON NORTHERN CALIFORNIA BEACHES References: <43C7E3D5.6000302@grantspass.com> Message-ID: Dear Jan: Patrick's Point is the classic agate hunting spot along the N. Calif coast. Mostly, people just seem to stand in the intertidal zone and keep an eye open as waves turn the stones over. I've never fanned north and south of there to see if agate concentration increases, or decreases. In Oregon, my experience has been that the central and northern beaches are more productive for agate and also fossils. I've spent time out by Cape Blanco, (south of Bandon, Oregon) and picked up a handful of beach agates. But storms and tides change the picture constantly. Once I gathered lots of petrified wood at Seven Devils Wayside one week, and the next week I couldn't find so much as a speck to save my life. Beach agate is small - mostly thumbnail sized, but occasionally you find something bigger, and what it's really about is just a pleasant walk on the beach. There are much better areas to hunt agate inland, in the stream gravels, and hillsides of Jackson County, Oregon. But it's pretty muddy here right now. Warm Regards - Scott Blair ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard and Jan Arnold" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:31 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] AGATES SOUTHERN OREGON NORTHERN CALIFORNIA BEACHES > Can anyone suggest beaches Northern California and Southern Oregon which > might be good agate beaches. Sunday looks like a wonderful (relative) > weather day and we would love to go the beach. > > Jan > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jan 13 13:24:40 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jan 13 13:24:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Augustine Volcano erupting today, Alaska Message-ID: <011320062124.10821.43C81A97000B123600002A45216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi, friends of the Rockhounds list, I thought you (esp. Kitty and Bill my volcano watcher friends in the Pacific) might be interested in seeing this "as it's happening", so I'm repeating right here, an email message I just sent to various educators on my mailing list. Hi, to some of my educator friends, who may perhaps be online, If you read this and want to see something very neat "almost live" on the internet, check out Augustine Volcano (Cook Inlet, west of Anchorage), which has been erupting off and on all day. Go to the Alaska Volcano Observatory web page, http://www.avo.alaska.edu and click on the link to the Augustine activity page, and then click on the right-hand webcam screen (may look black in the thumbnail view) to see a very cool, close-up picture (updates every 30 minutes or so) of the smoking volcano. If you click also on the Seismic Data link, you'll see a seismogram of the last 24 hours at the volcano. There were two big explosions there on the 11th, and now there have been 3 significant explosions today, at 0425, 0848, and just minutes ago at 1122, AKST (right now, 2:00 p.m. in Colorado, it is 12 noon there), and ash clouds are again blowing eastward, and lahars and pyroclastic flows have been occurring on the slopes of the volcano. Just earlier, the view of the volcano was very awesome, it looked like a scene from a science fiction movie (I saved the image), but right now the screen is nearly all dark, I think it is obscured by falling ash from the latest "boom", blowing in the direction of the camera (the image updated at 1137 AKST). If you view the continuously updating seismograph record, you will know about any other explosions that happen, before anyone else does! very neat! Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Paintricks at aol.com Fri Jan 13 19:03:24 2006 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 13 19:03:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Anyone from around Canon City Colorado, rockhound? Message-ID: <209.10d985c3.30f9c3fc@aol.com> Hello all, I just moved to Canon City and was wondering if anyone collects here? Does anyone know of good gold panning in this area? Around the Arkansas River? I've panned around the Beuna Vista areas and found some flakes there. Any tips on good places to work the cliffs next to the river? What are things to look for in the geology that depicts gold in the host rock? Changes in color or indications that gold is in one place and not in others. I've see where mines are punched and was wondering why that spot? I'm also looking for good crystal locations. I don't mind hiking to hard to get to places. Been on Antero and it's limited to just a few months outta the year. That's the picture. It's taken from the pass down to Salida from the cabin outta Fremont. Hi way 50 to Salida produces gold but doesn't start until you reach Badger creek just before you reach Salida. Any closer places to Canon? Would love to hear from ya. Thanks, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From bova at mindspring.com Fri Jan 13 20:24:59 2006 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Fri Jan 13 20:23:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lunar rocks stolen in Virginia today Message-ID: Hello folks, Friday the 13th was unlucky for an instructor here. Just heard on local news about a theft of lunar rocks used for education happened in Virginia Beach today. Pics with the story below at http://wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=4360855 (If this link doesn't work... go to www dot wavy dot com and scroll down to the middle of the page) Carol Lunar Rock Samples Stolen from Car in Virginia Beach Samples of lunar rocks were stolen from a car in Virginia Beach Tuesday, and police need your help in locating them. Police say around 3:24 p.m., they responded to a call in the 300 block of Garcia Drive.? When they arrived, the victim told them a projector, and a silver briefcase containing a sample of rare lunar rocks had been stolen from his car. The lunar rocks are entrusted to contracted instructors by NASA for educational purposes.? They are sealed within two clear plastic disks, as you see pictured on the right. The disks are labeled in the center with the words "meteorite samples" and "lunar samples."? The samples pose no risk to the public. Anyone with information regarding this crime is encouraged to call Virginia Beach Crime Solvers at 1-888-LOCK-U-UP. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jan 13 22:18:40 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jan 13 22:18:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green, green.... (slightly off topic) Message-ID: <011420060618.26466.43C897BF0009549E00006762215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I just had to share this one, folks, for all my fluorescent friends, "Taiwanese researches breed glowing pigs" http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=060114&cat=science&st=scienced8f44rt00&src=ap Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Jan 13 22:23:26 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Jan 13 22:20:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green, green.... (slightly off topic) In-Reply-To: <011420060618.26466.43C897BF0009549E00006762215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <011420060618.26466.43C897BF0009549E00006762215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <43C898DE.1040906@verizon.net> pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > I just had to share this one, folks, for all my fluorescent friends, > > "Taiwanese researches breed glowing pigs" > > http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=060114&cat=science&st=scienced8f44rt00&src=ap > Oh yeah I saw that, and I was so freaked out I couldn't even forward it. Did you see the photos? Don From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jan 13 22:26:09 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jan 13 22:26:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green, green.... (slightly off topic) Message-ID: <011420060626.143.43C899810000F2BC0000008F215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Yes, the lime-green hog is very cute. Same as some agate I've seen under SW UV. Normally, you have to leave pork sitting around a couple of weeks before it turns quite that shade. (yuchh) P. -------------- Original message from DonH : -------------- > pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > I just had to share this one, folks, for all my fluorescent friends, > > > > "Taiwanese researches breed glowing pigs" > > > > > http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=060114&cat=science&st=scienced8f4 > 4rt00&src=ap > > > > Oh yeah I saw that, and I was so freaked out I couldn't even forward it. > Did you see the photos? > > Don > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From MCGINNISG at aol.com Sat Jan 14 00:08:06 2006 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 14 00:08:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Howardite Information for Vance McCollum Message-ID: Howardite is from Virgin Valley area in northern Nevada. This unusual and very rare form of opal in silicated tuff is sometimes called "rattlesnake agate"; for obvious reasons, and also bears a resemblance to open woodgrain. It has wonderfully bright coloration and figure so unusual, that once you see it, you'll never forget it. Perhaps the Opal dealers in the Virgin Valley can supply you with more information. Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dguin at earthlink.net Sat Jan 14 07:10:55 2006 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Sat Jan 14 07:11:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Howardite Information for Vance McCollum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43C9147F.4020602@earthlink.net> MCGINNISG@aol.com wrote: >Howardite is from Virgin Valley area in northern Nevada. > It is also a type of meteorite *http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/H/howardite.html *Peace, dave From dguin at earthlink.net Sat Jan 14 07:16:01 2006 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Sat Jan 14 07:16:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lunar rocks stolen in Virginia today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43C915B1.3060607@earthlink.net> Carol J. Bova wrote: > Hello folks, > Friday the 13th was unlucky for an instructor here. Just heard on > local news about a theft of lunar rocks used for education happened in > Virginia Beach today. Where is Axel when you need him? ;) Peace, dave From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 14 09:02:39 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 14 09:01:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lunar rocks stolen in Virginia today References: <43C915B1.3060607@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <43C92E4A.3C9F@Tomaszewski.net> Dave Guin wrote: > > Carol J. Bova wrote: > > > Hello folks, > > Friday the 13th was unlucky for an instructor here. Just heard on > > local news about a theft of lunar rocks used for education happened in > > Virginia Beach today. > > Where is Axel when you need him? ;) The Axel's were under the car the moonrocks were stolen from. Kreigh From stevencarol at earthlink.net Sat Jan 14 11:41:18 2006 From: stevencarol at earthlink.net (Steve and Carol) Date: Sat Jan 14 11:41:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Anyone from around Canon City Colorado, rockhound? In-Reply-To: <209.10d985c3.30f9c3fc@aol.com> References: <209.10d985c3.30f9c3fc@aol.com> Message-ID: <43C953DE.8080006@earthlink.net> Hi Kevin - I dont have any info on collecting where you're at, but wanted to touch base again. Glad to see that you made it safely and are settled in your new place. We have been watching the reports from Jackson's Crossing in GA where we collected amethyst last spring and have the collecting fever again (does it ever go away?) They were even collecting on Christmas! Already planning our next trip to the same place and perhaps also go to Graves Mt. - they get great rutile crystals there if very lucky. We have been under a couple of feet of snow since the beginning of December, so we're limited to how long we can collect in Vermont too. Very difficult when you have the fever and have to stay home til spring! We will probably finally get to Eden again sometime in May,as that's when the snow is usually gone. Oh, well, - hope that you and yours are doing well. Regards, Carol and Steve McGranaghan Paintricks@aol.com wrote: >Hello all, > I just moved to Canon City and was wondering if anyone collects here? >Does anyone know of good gold panning in this area? Around the Arkansas River? >I've panned around the Beuna Vista areas and found some flakes there. Any >tips on good places to work the cliffs next to the river? What are things to >look for in the geology that depicts gold in the host rock? Changes in color >or indications that gold is in one place and not in others. > I've see where mines are punched and was wondering why that spot? > I'm also looking for good crystal locations. I don't mind hiking to hard >to get to places. Been on Antero and it's limited to just a few months outta >the year. That's the picture. >It's taken from the pass down to Salida from the cabin outta Fremont. > > > > >Hi way 50 to Salida produces gold but doesn't start until you reach Badger >creek just before you reach Salida. > Any closer places to Canon? Would love to hear from ya. > Thanks, > Kevin > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/mixed > multipart/related > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/jpeg >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jan 14 11:52:28 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jan 14 11:50:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? Message-ID: <43C9567C.1010200@verizon.net> Hi, Another in an occasional series of esoterica. I am looking for the true formula for whewellite, with the organic complex listed in organic notation, i.e., not as Ca(C2O4)*(H2O). I found one formula for oxalic acid, (HOOC)-(COOH), but I can't be certain how to join the calcium to it so that it represents the proper binding. For example, might it be Ca(COOCOO), or Ca(CO2CO2), or what? Any tips from the organic crowd, please let me know. Thanks, Don From michelblondieau at freegates.be Sat Jan 14 12:09:17 2006 From: michelblondieau at freegates.be (Michel Blondieau) Date: Sat Jan 14 12:09:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? In-Reply-To: <43C9567C.1010200@verizon.net> References: <43C9567C.1010200@verizon.net> Message-ID: <43C95A6D.4090507@freegates.be> > I am looking for the true formula for whewellite, with the organic > complex listed in organic notation, i.e., not as Ca(C2O4)*(H2O). > > I found one formula for oxalic acid, (HOOC)-(COOH), but I can't be > certain how to join the calcium to it so that it represents the proper > binding. For example, might it be Ca(COOCOO), or Ca(CO2CO2), or what? > > Any tips from the organic crowd, please let me know. > > Thanks, > Don A great number of minerals are formed with ionic bonds. In this case, it's a salt of oxalic acid. OK Ionic solids are formed with a great number of ions + put aside with a great number of ions -. For example NaCl is in fact a solid with 6 Cl- around each Na+ and reverse each Cl- is surrounded with 6 Na+. It's to say that the "formula" NaCl is a shortcut of the reality. It's probably the same for calcium oxalate. Michel (from Belgium) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From MCGINNISG at aol.com Sat Jan 14 12:17:26 2006 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Sat Jan 14 12:17:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Anyone from around Canon City Colorado, rockhound? Message-ID: <1c3.386ed8ed.30fab656@aol.com> It's been a long-long time since I've been to the Canon city area but I do remember a few things... The first thing I'd suggest is a trip to the Mother Lode Rock Shop west of town. You take Hwy 50 west to Hwy 3a and go south for about a mile. The shop is/was owned by Colorado Quarries. They are the know-all guys in the area. Your locale if famous for dino-bones. Hwy 9 north to Felch creek has agate and jasper geodes and a bunch of jasper dino-bone. There are several feldspar quarries in your area loaded with black tourmaline. Penrose area has calcite. About a mile and a half south of hwy 50 on hwy 115 are several gullies, on the south side, loaded with calcite crystals. Curio hill on road 143 south of town, about 7 miles or so, has some nice blue and banded agate. I know a lot has changed since I've been there. Probably all private land now. So I'd check at that rock shop for the latest information. Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From turnea55 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 14 13:38:22 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Sat Jan 14 13:38:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? In-Reply-To: <43C9567C.1010200@verizon.net> Message-ID: Hello, I took quite a bit of organic chemistry and looked at the compound. I think this should help the most though. Check it out and see what you think. http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/organics/whewelli/whewelli.htm Andrew Turner >From: DonH >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? >Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 11:52:28 -0800 > > >Hi, > >Another in an occasional series of esoterica. > >I am looking for the true formula for whewellite, with the organic complex >listed in organic notation, i.e., not as Ca(C2O4)*(H2O). > >I found one formula for oxalic acid, (HOOC)-(COOH), but I can't be certain >how to join the calcium to it so that it represents the proper binding. >For example, might it be Ca(COOCOO), or Ca(CO2CO2), or what? > >Any tips from the organic crowd, please let me know. > >Thanks, >Don > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Sat Jan 14 16:10:54 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sat Jan 14 16:10:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? Message-ID: <011520060010.691.43C9930C000B2F98000002B3216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I'll give you my take on this too, Don, and mostly second the things Michel said. My bottom line answer is going to be that the way you wrote the formula, Don, Ca (C2O4).H2O, is really about as correct and accurate as one can do. The oxalate ion is most simply written as (C2O4)-2, an ion with two negative charges. One can't really write out the molecular structure on one line, because it takes at lest two dimensions (a drawing on paper) to show how the atoms are linked. Writing (O-O-C-C-O-O) isn't really correct; the middle part, -O-C-C-O- is basically correct, but the other two oxygen atoms are joined (each via a double bond) to a carbon atom, not to an oxygen atom. This is my best shot at drawing the structure of this ion in two dimensions, here in the email, if this comes out spaced correctly the way I've tried to write it: O-C=O | O-C=O (the vertical line is supposed to join the two carbon atoms; does it come out looking that way?) This little diagram is topologically, but not geometrically, correct, because my typed drawing implies that the bond angles are 90 degrees, but they are not, things should angled at more like 60 degrees). I think people don't normally write the formula for oxalates using (CO2) in it, perhaps because might be confused with the CO2 molecule (the gas). So the best simple and clear way seems to be to just lump things together, and write out the overall formula for the ion as (C2O4) -2 . For lots of more complex organic molecues, it would get totally unwieldy if one always tried to draw or write the actual molecular formula showing what was bonded to what, for example, the mineral Abelsonite (first alphabetical entry in the 1999 copy of the Glossary of Mineral Species), which is C31H32N4Ni . Heaven help it if someone tried to write out the whole structure linking those 31 carbon atoms, every time you wanted to write the formula of that mineral! Now as to the best way to include calcium in the formula, and this brings up an interesting point, comparing it to the abelsonite I just noted above, I believe that abelsonite is a true "organometallic" compound, where the Ni atom is indeed linked (bonded) to a particular place on the C31H32N molecular group; this compound, as you see in the Glossary, is called "nickel porphyrin". But in the case of calcium oxalate, the calcium ion is noted bonded to anywhere on that oxalate ion, but rather calcium oxalate is a true ionic compound, just like (as Michel compared it to) NaCl, so it has an ionic structure, of Ca+2 ions and oxalate (C2O4)-2 ions, plus the water molecules stuck in there too. So it's correct to write Ca(C2O4), just like we would write CaCO3 or CaSO4 . There's my explanation, I think I said everything correctly, and wrote all the formulas the way I intended to. (A virtual prize (I'm afraid that means imaginary) to anyone who reads through this & finds an error, which I could well have made somewhere along the line with all those formulas.) cheers, Pete -------------- Original message from DonH : -------------- > > Hi, > > Another in an occasional series of esoterica. > > I am looking for the true formula for whewellite, with the organic > complex listed in organic notation, i.e., not as Ca(C2O4)*(H2O). > > I found one formula for oxalic acid, (HOOC)-(COOH), but I can't be > certain how to join the calcium to it so that it represents the proper > binding. For example, might it be Ca(COOCOO), or Ca(CO2CO2), or what? > > Any tips from the organic crowd, please let me know. > > Thanks, > Don > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jan 14 23:23:58 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jan 14 23:21:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? In-Reply-To: <011520060010.691.43C9930C000B2F98000002B3216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <011520060010.691.43C9930C000B2F98000002B3216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <43C9F88E.8040308@verizon.net> pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > I'll give you my take on this too, Don, and mostly second the things Michel said. > > My bottom line answer is going to be that the way you wrote the formula, Don, Ca (C2O4).H2O, is really about as correct and accurate as one can do. Hi Pete (and other respondents, shout-out to Gene), This has been a controversial subject ever since I learned about what whewellite was and then had a few chapters of organic chemistry. For those puzzled and who are still reading, organic molecules depend far more on binding for their identities than inorganic molecules (in general). For example, you could write an empirical formula C2H6, or you could write an organic formula CH3CH3, or HCH2CH3. I made those up, but organic molecules are based upon carbon-to-carbon bonds, as well as generous portions of H and O. There are many ways to arrange these combinations, just like there are many ways to arrange a set of Tinkertoy pieces, and the character of the molecule changes drastically depending on that arrangement. We spent a fair amount of time during the organic chemistry chapters taking terms like "polytetrafluoroethylene" and writing the formulae as well as the structural diagrams, and vice versa. I learned to appreciate the relative simplicity of mineral nomeclature when compared to organic nomenclature. The idea of "crystallography" to an organic chemist is radically different than what crystallography means to a mineralogist. Mineralogists use both the empirical formula as well as a set of space and point parameters to describe the arrangement; for the most part (again, let's not dwell on exceptions), mineralogists do not assume the chemical formula implies any particular structure, as an organic formula might. Back to the issue: you might call it attention to detail, or useless trivia, but the subject arose during work on a textbook. In my opinion, those minerals, such as the oxalates, that contain organic molecules as a principal component, should be written in organic notation in order to emphasize the organic nature of the component. Now, when I consider Pete's example of abelsonite, I realize that some of these are painfully unwieldy and would be hideous if written in their organic notation. However--and this is a big "however"--I also noticed that some sources list the formula as CaC2O4, but the least we can do is isolate the C2O4 with parentheses, as in Ca(C2O4), to conform to the convention of grouping complex or polyatomic ions together. Don From a.m.robbemond at hccnet.nl Sun Jan 15 04:31:24 2006 From: a.m.robbemond at hccnet.nl (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Robbemond?=) Date: Sun Jan 15 04:31:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about a malachite locality in Mexico References: <20051212203506.90890.qmail@web54711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000301c619cf$9a3afe80$0200a8c0@Andre2> Hi everyone, I recently got several specimen of malachite pseudomorph after azurite. There was no specific location given, just Mexico. The matrix is heavy and massive, darkbrown (as if it contains copper) varying to black and sometimes beige. The malachite xls are in vugs in the matrix mostly darkgreen, sharp xls with termination, sometime a little pale green coverages, up to over 1 cm. Some pieces have also azurite, mimetesite (?) and calcite xls on it. Any idea where these pieces could come from? Tkanks in advance, Andr? From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jan 15 10:01:30 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jan 15 10:01:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor impacts References: Message-ID: <007901c619fd$b6bc1e80$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> The article mentions that Sudbury deposits have low concentrations of magnesium and nickel. I thought Sudbury was a major nickel deposit -- or an I confusing it with someplace else? Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:14 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor impacts National Geographic blog has an interesting article about the Sudbury and other astroblems: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0112_060112_meteorite.html?source=rss BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 15 10:07:06 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 15 10:07:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green, green.... (slightly off topic) In-Reply-To: <43C898DE.1040906@verizon.net> Message-ID: Now, just wait until they breed red luminescent chickens and yellow phosphorescent cows... we may have ourselves a BBQ in the dark. I think it's friendly for the envirnoment. LOL Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens DonH Verzonden: zaterdag 14 januari 2006 7:23 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Green, green.... (slightly off topic) pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > I just had to share this one, folks, for all my fluorescent friends, > > "Taiwanese researches breed glowing pigs" > > http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=060114&cat=science&st=science d8f44rt00&src=ap > Oh yeah I saw that, and I was so freaked out I couldn't even forward it. Did you see the photos? Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 15 10:15:03 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 15 10:14:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lunar rocks stolen in Virginia today In-Reply-To: <43C915B1.3060607@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Whaaaarg..... The only certified moon rock thief that I know is firmly locked up until 2009. Did somebody open a can of moon-rock-thieves? This is the third time that lunar samples were stolen since 2002. Those rock are normally kept in a vault, right? Right??? Somebody say "yes", please? There MUST be a strategy behind this! Maybe NASA hopes that if enough people steal a moonrock, the market price will drop so low that crooks will no longer be interested and FINALLY leave those moon rocks alone! Axel (the much needed ;-)))) -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Dave Guin Verzonden: zaterdag 14 januari 2006 16:16 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Lunar rocks stolen in Virginia today Carol J. Bova wrote: > Hello folks, > Friday the 13th was unlucky for an instructor here. Just heard on > local news about a theft of lunar rocks used for education happened in > Virginia Beach today. Where is Axel when you need him? ;) Peace, dave _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Sun Jan 15 10:27:10 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sun Jan 15 10:27:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor impacts - Sudbury Message-ID: <011520061827.22049.43CA93FD0000023900005621216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I'd read this article too, Alan, and a few things in it sounded a bit odd. Partly, perhaps because it was a scientific article, but a summary of it written by nontechnical news writers. The authors seem to be go "far out" from the usual interpretation of Sudbury, in some of what they say in it. For example, the dimensions of the impact basin: "Today the Sudbury impact basin is about 37 miles (60 kilometers) long and 19 miles (30 kilometers) wide. Mungall and his colleagues believe the crater was originally about 155 miles (250 kilometers) in diameter." That's a big jump in size that they argue for. About the Mg and Ni, I think a part of their reasoning is, although the Ni-Cu deposits, which are in a mafic intrusive rock within the structure, are obviously high in Ni, the other, overlying rocks, which are more directly related to the impact (they are composed of older, overlying crustal rocks ground up, melted, and vaporized), are, I presume, not particularly high in Ni, and that is what they are referrring to. A controversy has always been, whether the intrusion of the two layers of igneous rock present at Sudbury, a gabbro (which hosts the Ni-Cu deposits) and a more felsic, pinkish rock which overlies it, are directly, indirectly, or not at all, related to the meteor impact crater. These authors obviously argue that they were very directly related, that the crater punched deep into the crust and caused these magmas to rise up in it. Setting up a "straw man" argument? I also noted that they say in this article, "Mungall says that 15 years ago scientists couldn't even agree that the Sudbury crater resulted from a meteorite impact." Well, I visited Sudbury in about 1969 on a Penn State geology dept. field trip, that was 37 years ago (good grief!), and everyone we talked to, from the nickel mining companies plus our own faculty, were quite convinced it was an impact site. But 'tis true, the concept was still a bit new, and I'm sure there were "some people" who didn't accept it. Pete -------------- Original message from "Alan Goldstein" : -------------- > The article mentions that Sudbury deposits have low concentrations of > magnesium and nickel. I thought Sudbury was a major nickel deposit -- or an > I confusing it with someplace else? > > Alan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:14 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor impacts > > > National Geographic blog has an interesting article about the Sudbury and > other astroblems: > > http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0112_060112_meteorite.html?sourc > e=rss > > BK > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Jan 15 10:39:03 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Jan 15 10:38:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor impacts References: <007901c619fd$b6bc1e80$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <000601c61a02$f59187d0$6602a8c0@remains> Yes...Sudbury contains one of the largest nickel deposits in the world. I can't remember where, but I read not to long ago that the nickel is believed to be of extraterestrial origin...the result of a meteorite. It was something to do with the purity/concentrations. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:01 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Meteor impacts > The article mentions that Sudbury deposits have low concentrations of > magnesium and nickel. I thought Sudbury was a major nickel deposit -- or > an I confusing it with someplace else? > > Alan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:14 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor impacts > > > National Geographic blog has an interesting article about the Sudbury and > other astroblems: > > http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0112_060112_meteorite.html?source=rss > > BK > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Jan 15 10:43:22 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Jan 15 10:43:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor impacts - Sudbury References: <011520061827.22049.43CA93FD0000023900005621216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <001f01c61a03$8fea9f60$6602a8c0@remains> Here are a few interesing links for the meteor impact at Sudbury: http://www.unitedreef.com/geology.htm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/396404.stm ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Meteor impacts - Sudbury > I'd read this article too, Alan, and a few things in it sounded a bit odd. > Partly, perhaps because it was a scientific article, but a summary of it > written by nontechnical news writers. The authors seem to be go "far out" > from the usual interpretation of Sudbury, in some of what they say in it. > For example, the dimensions of the impact basin: > > "Today the Sudbury impact basin is about 37 miles (60 kilometers) long and > 19 miles (30 kilometers) wide. Mungall and his colleagues believe the > crater was originally about 155 miles (250 kilometers) in diameter." > > That's a big jump in size that they argue for. > > About the Mg and Ni, I think a part of their reasoning is, although the > Ni-Cu deposits, which are in a mafic intrusive rock within the structure, > are obviously high in Ni, the other, overlying rocks, which are more > directly related to the impact (they are composed of older, overlying > crustal rocks ground up, melted, and vaporized), are, I presume, not > particularly high in Ni, and that is what they are referrring to. > > A controversy has always been, whether the intrusion of the two layers of > igneous rock present at Sudbury, a gabbro (which hosts the Ni-Cu deposits) > and a more felsic, pinkish rock which overlies it, are directly, > indirectly, or not at all, related to the meteor impact crater. These > authors obviously argue that they were very directly related, that the > crater punched deep into the crust and caused these magmas to rise up in > it. > > Setting up a "straw man" argument? I also noted that they say in this > article, > > "Mungall says that 15 years ago scientists couldn't even agree that the > Sudbury crater resulted from a meteorite impact." > > Well, I visited Sudbury in about 1969 on a Penn State geology dept. field > trip, that was 37 years ago (good grief!), and everyone we talked to, from > the nickel mining companies plus our own faculty, were quite convinced it > was an impact site. But 'tis true, the concept was still a bit new, and > I'm sure there were "some people" who didn't accept it. > > Pete > > > -------------- Original message from "Alan Goldstein" > : -------------- > > >> The article mentions that Sudbury deposits have low concentrations of >> magnesium and nickel. I thought Sudbury was a major nickel deposit -- or >> an >> I confusing it with someplace else? >> >> Alan >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "J Bryan Kramer" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 9:14 AM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor impacts >> >> >> National Geographic blog has an interesting article about the Sudbury and >> other astroblems: >> >> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/01/0112_060112_meteorite.html?sourc >> e=rss >> >> BK >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dguin at earthlink.net Sun Jan 15 11:08:43 2006 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Sun Jan 15 11:08:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lunar rocks stolen in Virginia today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43CA9DBB.3040501@earthlink.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: >Whaaaarg..... > >The only certified moon rock thief that I know is firmly locked up until >2009. Did somebody open a can of moon-rock-thieves? This is the third time >that lunar samples were stolen since 2002. Those rock are normally kept in a >vault, right? Right??? Somebody say "yes", please? > > This thief probably wasn't after the rocks. They were in a metal briefcase that the professor left in his car along with (IIRC) a computer. The thief just grabbed the case without knowing what was inside (probably). The moon rocks AND meteor samples were labeled so maybe one of us will be contacted again. ;) Peace, dave From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Jan 15 11:29:26 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Jan 15 11:26:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lunar rocks stolen in Virginia today In-Reply-To: <43CA9DBB.3040501@earthlink.net> References: <43CA9DBB.3040501@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <43CAA296.7060603@verizon.net> Dave Guin wrote: > This thief probably wasn't after the rocks. They were in a metal > briefcase that the professor left in his car along with (IIRC) a > computer. The thief just grabbed the case without knowing what was > inside (probably). The moon rocks AND meteor samples were labeled so > maybe one of us will be contacted again. ;) My first thought was that it was at least naieve, if not reckless, to leave something like that in car in plain view (I would have never left it in the car at all). We can only hope that, given the publicity over the issue, the thief will return the samples to the authorities anonymously, rather than face the risk of joining what's-his-name in the prison shower being used as someone's wife. Don From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 15 11:36:49 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 15 11:36:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? In-Reply-To: <43C9567C.1010200@verizon.net> Message-ID: Don, speaking of esoterica... whewellite seems to have a special power... I'll send anyone who wants photographic proof a picture of a whewellite crystal of about 3 cm on matrix (Lezaky coalmine, Most, Bohemia, Czech Republic). The special power is clearly visible on the photo which is taken under special circumstances that are normally not visible to the human eye ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens DonH Verzonden: zaterdag 14 januari 2006 20:52 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? Hi, Another in an occasional series of esoterica. I am looking for the true formula for whewellite, with the organic complex listed in organic notation, i.e., not as Ca(C2O4)*(H2O). I found one formula for oxalic acid, (HOOC)-(COOH), but I can't be certain how to join the calcium to it so that it represents the proper binding. For example, might it be Ca(COOCOO), or Ca(CO2CO2), or what? Any tips from the organic crowd, please let me know. Thanks, Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Sun Jan 15 11:49:17 2006 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jan 15 11:49:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? In-Reply-To: References: <43C9567C.1010200@verizon.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060115094807.0354a008@incoming.verizon.net> OK, I'll bite. I'll bet it will give me my laugh of the day. Please send it to me off-list. ;) Aloha, Kitty At 09:36 AM 1/15/2006, you wrote: >Don, > >speaking of esoterica... whewellite seems to have a special power... > >I'll send anyone who wants photographic proof a picture of a whewellite >crystal of about 3 cm on matrix (Lezaky coalmine, Most, Bohemia, Czech >Republic). The special power is clearly visible on the photo which is taken >under special circumstances that are normally not visible to the human eye >;-))) > >Cheers > >Axel From gene at fossilnut.com Sun Jan 15 12:18:04 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Sun Jan 15 12:18:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green, green.... (slightly off topic) References: Message-ID: <002701c61a10$ca6f0470$6400a8c0@hppav> Hey, add in a few radionucleotides and the critters will roast themselves. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 1:07 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Green, green.... (slightly off topic) > Now, just wait until they breed red luminescent chickens and yellow > phosphorescent cows... we may have ourselves a BBQ in the dark. I think > it's > friendly for the envirnoment. LOL > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens DonH > Verzonden: zaterdag 14 januari 2006 7:23 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Green, green.... (slightly off topic) > > > pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > >> I just had to share this one, folks, for all my fluorescent friends, >> >> "Taiwanese researches breed glowing pigs" >> >> > http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=060114&cat=science&st=science > d8f44rt00&src=ap >> > > Oh yeah I saw that, and I was so freaked out I couldn't even forward it. > Did you see the photos? > > Don > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From MCGINNISG at aol.com Sun Jan 15 13:07:52 2006 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 15 13:07:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Question about a malachite locality in Mexico Message-ID: <1a6.46fd0d1f.30fc13a8@aol.com> I recently sold a few Malachite Pseudomorph after Azurite specimens that were labeled as being from Concepci?n del Oro, Zacatecas, Mexico. Unfortunately, Concepci?n del Oro is both a district with several mines and it is the name of a single mine. The specimens I sold were very much as you described. Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jan 15 13:18:03 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jan 15 13:18:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lunar rocks stolen in Virginia today References: <43CA9DBB.3040501@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00a301c61a19$2be6ac00$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I work at a park and we have a regular problem with car break-ins. We post signs admonishing visitors not to leave valuables in plain sight inside. Do people read them? Not enough of the time! They leave purses, camera bags, etc. on the seat. It takes about 3 seconds to break a window and retrieve the goodies. Even with other visitors and staff moving around, there are plenty of windows of opportunity for thieves. You can be in an urban or rural setting and still have your vehicle broken into! Think people, think!!! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Guin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Lunar rocks stolen in Virginia today > Axel Emmermann wrote: > >>Whaaaarg..... >> >>The only certified moon rock thief that I know is firmly locked up until >>2009. Did somebody open a can of moon-rock-thieves? This is the third time >>that lunar samples were stolen since 2002. Those rock are normally kept in >>a >>vault, right? Right??? Somebody say "yes", please? >> > This thief probably wasn't after the rocks. They were in a metal > briefcase that the professor left in his car along with (IIRC) a computer. > The thief just grabbed the case without knowing what was inside > (probably). The moon rocks AND meteor samples were labeled so maybe one > of us will be contacted again. ;) > > Peace, > dave > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Sun Jan 15 13:33:56 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sun Jan 15 13:33:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? Message-ID: <011520062133.26310.43CABFC300075405000066C6216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Oh, my, another one of Axel's goofy photos, he's got a million of 'em! (Please email me the photo, Axel, thank you very much.) Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > Don, > > speaking of esoterica... whewellite seems to have a special power... > > I'll send anyone who wants photographic proof a picture of a whewellite > crystal of about 3 cm on matrix (Lezaky coalmine, Most, Bohemia, Czech > Republic). The special power is clearly visible on the photo which is taken > under special circumstances that are normally not visible to the human eye > ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens DonH > Verzonden: zaterdag 14 januari 2006 20:52 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? > > > > Hi, > > Another in an occasional series of esoterica. > > I am looking for the true formula for whewellite, with the organic > complex listed in organic notation, i.e., not as Ca(C2O4)*(H2O). > > I found one formula for oxalic acid, (HOOC)-(COOH), but I can't be > certain how to join the calcium to it so that it represents the proper > binding. For example, might it be Ca(COOCOO), or Ca(CO2CO2), or what? > > Any tips from the organic crowd, please let me know. > > Thanks, > Don > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jan 15 15:37:50 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jan 15 15:37:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? In-Reply-To: <011520062133.26310.43CABFC300075405000066C6216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: I will, Pete... Maybe you can explain the eerie blue glow that seems to emanate from the crystal. It happens every time I put my 400 watts HPW lamp on this crystal. Goofy hu??? Very much tongue in cheek Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net Verzonden: zondag 15 januari 2006 22:34 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? Oh, my, another one of Axel's goofy photos, he's got a million of 'em! (Please email me the photo, Axel, thank you very much.) Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > Don, > > speaking of esoterica... whewellite seems to have a special power... > > I'll send anyone who wants photographic proof a picture of a whewellite > crystal of about 3 cm on matrix (Lezaky coalmine, Most, Bohemia, Czech > Republic). The special power is clearly visible on the photo which is taken > under special circumstances that are normally not visible to the human eye > ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens DonH > Verzonden: zaterdag 14 januari 2006 20:52 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? > > > > Hi, > > Another in an occasional series of esoterica. > > I am looking for the true formula for whewellite, with the organic > complex listed in organic notation, i.e., not as Ca(C2O4)*(H2O). > > I found one formula for oxalic acid, (HOOC)-(COOH), but I can't be > certain how to join the calcium to it so that it represents the proper > binding. For example, might it be Ca(COOCOO), or Ca(CO2CO2), or what? > > Any tips from the organic crowd, please let me know. > > Thanks, > Don > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Jan 15 16:01:58 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Jan 15 16:02:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, please send me the pic or a link Thanks! Glenn  {:{D} From: "Axel Emmermann" <axel.emmermann@pandora.be> Don, speaking of esoterica... whewellite seems to have a special power... I'll send anyone who wants photographic proof a picture of a whewellite crystal of about 3 cm on matrix (Lezaky coalmine, Most, Bohemia, Czech Republic). The special power is clearly visible on the photo which is taken under special circumstances that are normally not visible to the human eye ;-))) Cheers Axel ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find e-mail, documents and more on your PC instantly with Windows Desktop Search–FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Sun Jan 15 16:04:57 2006 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Sun Jan 15 16:04:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200601160004.k0G04IFC037718@cti06.citenet.net> Me four -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Wimpee Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:02 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? OK, please send me the pic or a link Thanks! Glenn  {:{D} From: "Axel Emmermann" <axel.emmermann@pandora.be> Don, speaking of esoterica... whewellite seems to have a special power... I'll send anyone who wants photographic proof a picture of a whewellite crystal of about 3 cm on matrix (Lezaky coalmine, Most, Bohemia, Czech Republic). The special power is clearly visible on the photo which is taken under special circumstances that are normally not visible to the human eye ;-))) Cheers Axel ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find e-mail, documents and more on your PC instantly with Windows Desktop Search-FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From buff1 at ptd.net Sun Jan 15 16:34:06 2006 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Sun Jan 15 16:34:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? In-Reply-To: <200601160004.k0G04IFC037718@cti06.citenet.net> References: <200601160004.k0G04IFC037718@cti06.citenet.net> Message-ID: <43CAE9FE.3000109@ptd.net> Me five, Or at least convey the content of the picture........ Kay Davis wrote: >Me four > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Wimpee >Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:02 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] true formula for whewellite? Organic chemists? > >OK, please send me the pic or a link > >Thanks! > > > > >Glenn  {:{D} > > > > > >From: "Axel Emmermann" <axel.emmermann@pandora.be> Don, > >speaking of esoterica... whewellite seems to have a special power... > > From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 15 16:47:00 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Jan 15 16:47:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lunar rocks stolen in Virginia today In-Reply-To: <00a301c61a19$2be6ac00$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <20060116004700.17265.qmail@web34309.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It takes about 3 seconds to break > a window and retrieve > the goodies. Even with other visitors and staff > moving around, there are > plenty of windows of opportunity for thieves. Was the pun intended? Jim Daly __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From bova at mindspring.com Sun Jan 15 17:21:08 2006 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Sun Jan 15 17:19:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lunar rocks stolen in Virginia today In-Reply-To: <43CAA296.7060603@verizon.net> Message-ID: <5EFF0F32-862E-11DA-BA16-000A95773806@mindspring.com> From the tv report I saw Friday, the theft was from a van, equipped with a safe, and someone was pointing to the open door on the safe.. which seemed to indicate it had been broken into. The clip was only on screen for a brief time, and it wasn't clear if there were windows in the sliding panel door or not for someone to spot the $5,000 projector inside the van. I looked for an update on this story, but didn't find one yet for the tv or newspaper sites, and nothing at all on the NASA press release page. After the windstorm yesterday and today with 50mph gusts breaking branches and dropping them on my roof, I wasn't paying attention to the news, other than the weather radio, so I don't know if anything else has been reported. Carol On Sunday, January 15, 2006, at 02:29 PM, DonH wrote: > Dave Guin wrote: > >> This thief probably wasn't after the rocks. They were in a metal >> briefcase that the professor left in his car along with (IIRC) a >> computer. The thief just grabbed the case without knowing what was >> inside (probably). The moon rocks AND meteor samples were labeled so >> maybe one of us will be contacted again. ;) > > > My first thought was that it was at least naieve, if not reckless, to > leave something like that in car in plain view (I would have never > left it in the car at all). > > We can only hope that, given the publicity over the issue, the thief > will return the samples to the authorities anonymously, rather than > face the risk of joining what's-his-name in the prison shower being > used as someone's wife. > > Don > From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Jan 15 17:23:47 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sun Jan 15 17:23:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Loratone grinder bushing replacement, How to do it?? References: <43C7CE0E.40407@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <011801c61a3b$802181b0$259e5a40@marilyn> When I have a stubborn bushing/bearing to remove from a shaft I take it down to my local transmission shop (in my case Charlies) and they use a press to push it off. the press is a large hyraulic jack and a frame to hold the axel/ shaft if you don't have a friendly transmission shop maybe a hydraulic jack and a jury rigged holder would work I do not recommend beating on the shaft even if you don' t have internal or external threaded ends many shafts do. you could bend the shaft or cause other future problems. Good luck Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jabac" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Loratone grinder bushing replacement, How to do it?? > Joe Davis wrote: > >>Does Loratone use a bushing on each side of the 2 wheel grinder. What is >>the >>recommended way to get them out, and install new one for the hobbyist (who >>has lots of common tools). It looks like you remove a circ clip on one >>ends, loosen the set screws for the center pulley and drive the shaft our >>from that end. Then remove the busing with a long ??? and press the new >>bushing in. Hate 2 say it but my bushing removing tool has sometimes be a >>ratchet extension and just beat on it to remove the bushing. I know >>"shade >>tree" for the purist. In this case it appears you need a 18 inch tool to >>force the bushings out. Any advise appreciated. >> >>Joe Davis >>"Wrap It, I'll Take It" >>Shade Tree mechanic exemplary and other stuff >> > > I presume this is not a motor with dual extended shafts since you mention > a center pulley. > > Try NOT to use any kind of metal tool to drive the shaft out of its > "bushing". The bushing is most likely a bearing and pounding on the end of > the shaft may, and probably will mushroom it. Then it will have to be > sanded down with emory cloth to get it to clear the internal race of the > bearing. Removing the circlip will probably allow you to pull the shaft > out. If it won't come, either press it out with a hydraulic press or try > to GENTLY tap it out with a wooden mallet. When the shaft is clear, you > can tap out the other bearing, if there is one. Always push in the > direction of the removed circlip because there may be more circlips inside > the housing which will keep the shaft from moving opposite. If it fails to > move, you may have to unbolt the housings to allow enough horizontal > movement for the shaft to clear. Mark the locations of the housings before > you loosen them, and reinstall in the same place. > > Then you will have to find the proper bearing(s) to replace the one(s) > taken out. Replace all the bearings at once. > > Alternatively, you might have actual phosphor-bronze bushings (Unlikely > unless the shaft is more than 1 1/2" in diameter.) In that case locate the > bushings before you begin to tear anything apart. They are not so easy to > find. Again replace them all at once. > > If the assembly is old and very corroded but the shaft is more or less > intact, consider replacing the bearings and housings as a unit. Remove the > shaft and polish it with emory/crocus cloth to restore it, and install it > in its new housings. > > > john > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Jan 15 17:30:54 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sun Jan 15 17:30:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Franklin NC Rock and Mineral Trips References: <2c7.1b33275.30f72f44@aol.com> Message-ID: <013401c61a3c$7e538300$259e5a40@marilyn> Tom Thank you very much for your help with it I am sure I will have a great time even in January. In addition I won't have to spend time in salted diggings. Thaat alone is a blessing. I t is so nice to have friends I havent met. If you ever get out west to New Mexico please write me so I can return the favor and maybe a meal. Thanks again, Steve Keep on Rockin ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Franklin NC Rock and Mineral Trips Wow great info dump! We plan to do some camping soon, up in GSMNP and this will make that a lot more interesting. BK On 1/11/06, TomE61@aol.com wrote: > > Steve & Marilyn: > > I spent about 8 days in North Carolina in August 2005 and had a great time > exploring and collecting. There are SO many places to go, and in the > time I > was there, I was only able to visit a fraction of them. If you need more > detailed information or have any specific questions, please contact > me offline. > I'd be very happy to help. But for simple purposes, I'll give you and > the > group some of the highlights. > > FIRST, if you haven't already done so, secure a copy of "Rock, Gem and > Mineral Collecting Sites in Western North Carolina" by Richard James > Jacquot, Jr. > The book is one of the best of its kind. Although its a couple of years > old, the majority of the information is still good, especially when > it comes to > public access areas that don't require an entrance fee. [Its good to know > that progress doesn't come too quickly to North Carolina; no strip malls > covering over an abundant corundum area.] > > Jacquot is something of an expert on mineral collecting in the South; I > met > him last year and he was a wealth of information. He has plans to > publish an > update to his book, but I wouldn't wait for that to happen. > > SECOND, if you have time and know exactly where you want to go in NC, > contact the county Chambers of Commerce and tell them of your interest. > Many of > the chambers replied to me with good information and although you > will find > that they tend to promote businesses, many private owners in the area > will only > deal with people who have contacted them through the chamber. > > THIRD, as far as fee-collecting mines in NC, there are TONS of them, some > better than others. I would strongly recommend the Mason Mountain Mine in > Franklin County; the owners are wonderful people, the gift shop is > enormous with > extremely reasonable prices and a great selection, their son is named Tom > (just like me) and access to the mine is very very reasonable. When I > was there, > a couple from Pennsylvania had spent an entire week in this one place and > had an enviable collection of corundum (rubies and sapphires). The > address is > 5315 Bryson City Road (Highway 28 North), Franklin NC 28734. The phone > number is (828) 524-4570 and the owners are Brown and Martha Johnson. > > There is another Mason mine in the area, called Mason's Ruby & > Sapphire Mine > and I would hope that you don't confuse the two, or go to this one instead > of the Mason Mountain Mine I mentioned above. Despite what Jacquot > writes in > his book and what he told me in person, a trip to Mason's Ruby & Sapphire > Mine (and I want to be nice here) is akin to a trip back in time, when > there was > little, if any, civilization in evidence. The pickings are almost > non-existent, the mine hasn't been worked in years, the entrance fee of > $15.00 is > exorbitant, the on-site attendants have no interest in insuring > your enjoyment > and I wouldn't let my dog use the outdoor facilities. The only positive > thing > I can say about MR&S Mine is that the sluice operation is one of the > largest > and best I've ever seen. Too bad its overkill for what people get out of > the > digs. > > FOURTH, two places that you MUST visit are the Ray Mica Mine in Yancey > County (no fee; public access) and the Little Pine Garnet Mine in > Madison County. > The Ray Mica Mine is a HUGE dump, like a sliding hill, that yielded some > nice stuff. Its a large place, and even has another "little" mine dump > to the > north and you could easily spend an entire day here. The mica here is > some of > the most unusual I've ever seen (I am definitely a mica person), with > blades > and crystals of every imaginable shape. I found at least three beryl > crystals in matrix, a nice piece of blue-bladed kyanite and decent size > pieces of > black tourmaline (shorl). And I was only there for about three hours. > > The Little Pine Garnet mine has a creek that you can dig in or you can go > into the mine itself (actually a cave) and dig out the garnets > there. You will > definitely need some heavy duty tools and a huge miner's lamp, since its > dark inside. Its also VERY slippery. Its also very challenging. Its not > a > place for children or the faint of heart. Having said that, the garnets > here > range from the usual 12-sided almandine variety to hybrid-shaped garnets > that > you have to dig out of the surrounding walls. BUT, in all cases, the > garnets > are usually as large as a golf ball. In fact, I got one almost the size > of a > baseball. It took a LOT of work, but I dismissed every bump and bruise > on my > posterior with the fact that I got some nice specimens from > there. Again, > you could spend a lot of time here and work up a sweat but if you like > "avant-garde" garnets, you will definitely enjoy your visit here. > > FIFTH and finally, there is a gift shop called "Rocks and More" Rock > & Gift > Shop on Highway 441 S (which is the main highway between Franklin and > Asheville). This is one shop that should be used as a standard > against which to > measure others. Inside, there is an enormous collection of material, > including > the usual lamps, globes and jewelry, but outside, there is a HUGE > collection > of raw material, at ridiculously low prices, that you can pick and choose > from. The owner even has a private stash that he may let you look it; I > managed > to get some nice raw sapphires from him. This store is open ALL year > round > and is definitely worth a trip. The address is 3251 Highway 441 S, two > miles > south of Dillsboro. If you are travelling south on 441, its on the left > hand side. The owner's son-in-law also knows some good places in the > area to > dig for corundum. > > Well thats it for now. I apologize to anyone who feels I've overextended > my > bandwidth, but obviously I enjoyed myself in NC and really wanted to > share > some of my experiences with others. In fact, I'm already planning a > return > trip in August of 2006. I'm even trying to get the Geology Department at > Columbia U to sponsor us on a field trip down there (for credit) since > the NC > landscape is not only one of the most beautiful I've ever seen, but the > geology > would provide more than enough field experience for anyone serious about > the > earth's physical makeup. > > Here's wishing everyone on the list a happy, healthy and safe New Year, > and > opportunities for unprecedented collecting in 2006 ! > > Warmest Regards, > Tom Russell > > P.S. A warning for NC visitors. You can stay in either Asheville or > Franklin and fan out from either location to go collecting, but if you DO > stay in > Asheville, avoid the Best Western Biltmore West. I am a big fan of Best > Western and have stayed at their hotels literally hundreds of times, but > this > particular place was the absolute worst. In fact, BW, based on my > comments and > displeasure, sent me a $100 BW Travel Card to use for future trips, in > part > because my description of the experience was so horrific. Forewarned is > forearmed ! > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jennifer at sunriseinstitute.org Mon Jan 16 04:23:18 2006 From: jennifer at sunriseinstitute.org (jennifer isham) Date: Mon Jan 16 04:23:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki In-Reply-To: <43C55D16.3060901@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: Awhile ago there was a discussion thread about suiseki. Does anyone have a list of shows in the Midwest or Florida where suiseki can be seen? I checked on suiseki.com but couldn't find anything there relevant to my question. Thanks. jennifer From bova at mindspring.com Mon Jan 16 08:04:12 2006 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Mon Jan 16 08:02:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Jennifer, On Monday, January 16, 2006, at 07:23 AM, jennifer isham wrote: > Awhile ago there was a discussion thread about suiseki. Does anyone > have a > list of shows in the Midwest or Florida where suiseki can be seen? I > checked on suiseki.com but couldn't find anything there relevant to my > question. > > Thanks. > > jennifer > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Jan 16 08:33:30 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Jan 16 08:33:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson: See you soon! Message-ID: <43CBCADA.6090609@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, Just a quick note to say hi and to invite those of you coming to Tucson to come on over and say hello. I'll be at the Inn Suites, in room #186 and it would be great to meet you. I leave in 2 days and will open for business on the 23rd or the 24th. Several of you stopped by last year and I very much enjoyed saying hello and meeting you and hope that this year is as terrific. Travel safe everyone and all the very best! Take care, John From bova at mindspring.com Mon Jan 16 08:50:42 2006 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Mon Jan 16 08:49:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3B0A7317-86B0-11DA-BA16-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Hi Jennifer, We did a book review in the Eclectic Lapidary on a suiseki book (July 1, 1997 - Volume 1, Issue 8 A Review of "Suiseki: The Japanese Art of Miniature Landscape Stones") and I checked the author's website, (http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/)and only found references to exhibits by societies in California, Italy, and Japan. There are some beautiful pictures there though, and links to other suiseki artists, articles and information sources under the FAQs and Links section. It looks like suiseki is frequently shown in bonsai exhibits, and lists several in Florida on the Bonsai Societies of Florida site: http://www.bonsai-bsf.com/ There's also a site for the North American Bonsai Federation: http://www.bonsai-wbff.org/rnortham.shtml You might be able to check with one of them for other shows and whether suiseki is part of the show. I think suiseki is a fascinating way to use rocks as an art form. Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary http://www.eclecticlapidary.com (apologies to all for the mis-sent previous message!) On Monday, January 16, 2006, at 07:23 AM, jennifer isham wrote: > Awhile ago there was a discussion thread about suiseki. Does anyone > have a > list of shows in the Midwest or Florida where suiseki can be seen? I > checked on suiseki.com but couldn't find anything there relevant to my > question. > > Thanks. > > jennifer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jan 16 09:12:20 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jan 16 09:12:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson: See you soon! Message-ID: <011620061712.8117.43CBD3F30008B08100001FB5216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Thank you for the extra note, John, to us all. I'm going to make an extra effort this year, to REALLY come by and say hello to you (and to look at those minerals!). I'll be in Tucson just the week of the main show, Monday through that last Sunday. And to all those on the List; if you are in Tucson for the show, and you get to the main show at the Convention Center, please stop by and say "hi" at the USGS booth which is where I'll be most of the time. We're in the Galleria, the entrance hallway upstairs that everyone has to walk through after buying tickets, to get down onto the main show floor. (Unless you are or you are helping a dealer at the show, in which case you enter downstairs and never see us; so then, please come up and say hello too!) Also up where we are, is the Arizona Geological Survey (they have a series of really nice "general public" booklets about the geology of various parts of AZ, such as Sabino Canyon, Chiricahua National Monument, etc.), Mineralogical Society of America, Friends of Mineralogy, U.S. Forest Service (John Nichols & friends), happy travels to all (who are travelling), and happy Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Day, too (thanks to which I have today off, but I'm working on "mineralogy stuff" at home), with light snow falling outside here in Denver, Pete -------------- Original message from John and Gloria Cornish : -------------- > Hi Everyone, > > Just a quick note to say hi and to invite those of you coming to Tucson > to come on over and say hello. I'll be at the Inn Suites, in room #186 > and it would be great to meet you. I leave in 2 days and will open for > business on the 23rd or the 24th. Several of you stopped by last year > and I very much enjoyed saying hello and meeting you and hope that this > year is as terrific. > > Travel safe everyone and all the very best! Take care, > > John > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rainforest1950 at lycos.com Mon Jan 16 09:12:28 2006 From: rainforest1950 at lycos.com (rain forest) Date: Mon Jan 16 09:12:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stardust Message-ID: <20060116171228.30C6CE5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Stayed up late Saturday and the cloud cover parted just enought to catch a glimpse of the re-entry then watched the NASA feed of the touch down. Most of the captured material will be microscopic and take many years to analyze. But talk about a micro to die for! David Bese The Rainforest Hippie Pt. Orchard, Wa. "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness." "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it for change." "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." -- _______________________________________________ Search for businesses by name, location, or phone number. -Lycos Yellow Pages http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10 From jaybates at rcn.com Mon Jan 16 09:17:00 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Mon Jan 16 09:15:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki References: <3B0A7317-86B0-11DA-BA16-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <000501c61ac0$a9e15e00$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Carol, I thought you might be interested in seeing a Suiseki rock I combined with a sphere of petrified palm wood. The Suiseki wood is a piece of petrified wood I found in the Black Rock Desert in Nevada last fall. http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/Suisekiwood.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol J. Bova" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki > Hi Jennifer, > We did a book review in the Eclectic Lapidary on a suiseki book (July > 1, 1997 - Volume 1, Issue 8 > A Review of "Suiseki: The Japanese Art of Miniature Landscape > Stones") and I checked the author's website, > (http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/)and only found references to > exhibits by societies in California, Italy, and Japan. There are some > beautiful pictures there though, and links to other suiseki artists, > articles and information sources under the FAQs and Links section. > > It looks like suiseki is frequently shown in bonsai exhibits, and lists > several in Florida on the Bonsai Societies of Florida site: > http://www.bonsai-bsf.com/ > There's also a site for the North American Bonsai Federation: > http://www.bonsai-wbff.org/rnortham.shtml > > You might be able to check with one of them for other shows and whether > suiseki is part of the show. > > I think suiseki is a fascinating way to use rocks as an art form. > Carol > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > (apologies to all for the mis-sent previous message!) > > > On Monday, January 16, 2006, at 07:23 AM, jennifer isham wrote: > > > Awhile ago there was a discussion thread about suiseki. Does anyone > > have a > > list of shows in the Midwest or Florida where suiseki can be seen? I > > checked on suiseki.com but couldn't find anything there relevant to my > > question. > > > > Thanks. > > > > jennifer > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Mon Jan 16 10:27:11 2006 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jan 16 10:27:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki In-Reply-To: <3B0A7317-86B0-11DA-BA16-000A95773806@mindspring.com> References: <3B0A7317-86B0-11DA-BA16-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060116080228.024d0d98@incoming.verizon.net> Jennifer and Carol, Thanks very much for introducing us to this rockhounds' art form. Any of you who have even a little artistic side will enjoy checking this out. The following site (a link from one Carol references) starts with pictures of collecting suiseki stones, and the lower part show the prize-winning results: http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/CaSusekiSoc.html I'm a bit chagrinned that I knew nothing of this art, since Bill and I lived in Japan for 3 years, and I am somewhat of an expert on Japanese theatre (Noh, Kyogen, Kabuki, Bunraku), and have studied various Japanese arts, including doll-making, pottery, flower arranging, sumi-e, silk painting, woodblock prints....but I'd never heard of suiseki! What a wonderful discovery---something that blends my love of rocks with my love of Japanese arts! Mahalo, Kitty PS Bill has just looked at the pictures and said, "You could do that. You should try it." We'll see. At 06:50 AM 1/16/2006, you wrote: >Hi Jennifer, >We did a book review in the Eclectic Lapidary on a suiseki book (July 1, >1997 - Volume 1, Issue 8 > A Review of "Suiseki: The Japanese Art of Miniature Landscape > Stones") and I checked the author's website, > (http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/)and only found references to > exhibits by societies in California, Italy, and Japan. There are some > beautiful pictures there though, and links to other suiseki artists, > articles and information sources under the FAQs and Links section. > >It looks like suiseki is frequently shown in bonsai exhibits, and lists >several in Florida on the Bonsai Societies of Florida site: >http://www.bonsai-bsf.com/ >There's also a site for the North American Bonsai Federation: >http://www.bonsai-wbff.org/rnortham.shtml > >You might be able to check with one of them for other shows and whether >suiseki is part of the show. > >I think suiseki is a fascinating way to use rocks as an art form. From tam2819 at cox.net Mon Jan 16 10:43:12 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Mon Jan 16 10:43:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060116080228.024d0d98@incoming.verizon.net> References: <3B0A7317-86B0-11DA-BA16-000A95773806@mindspring.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20060116080228.024d0d98@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: <286cfba7b4b01f2210ecdb5821e76e9a@cox.net> Kitty, Go for it! From your photos of Lava flows, there must be some exquisitely shaped rocks. I know on rockhounding field trips, many of the rocks in the exhibit you pointed us to, would have been discarded. You are right, this adds another dimension to rock hounding, Thanks Terrie From mike at colellaphoto.com Mon Jan 16 11:35:54 2006 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Mon Jan 16 11:35:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200601161435828.SM03116@mjce4712fb7466> Jennifer, a while ago I posted information on this topic, of which I greatly enjoy as an addition to my regular rock hounding. Check in with your local Bonsai associations, they would be the closest connection to Suiseki. In the fall there will be a Symposium in PA: Info from the club I belong to (PVSG) The third iteration of the International Stone Appreciation Symposium (aka StoneShow 2006) will be held September 28 through October 1, 2006, at the Harrisburg/Hershey Holiday Inn at Grantville, PA. Seiji Morimae will continue his excellent, in-depth discussion of Suiseki began in 2004, along with ten or so other speakers. There will be many stones there. Also if you ever get to Washington DC, go to the National Arboretum, where there is a wonderful display of about 50 stones, including the 6 stones given to the US by Japan for the US Bi-Centennial. Amazon has a good selection of books. Feel free to contact me off line if you like. I have a few of my stones on my website. No where near as exotic as the masters, but enjoyable. And that's what makes the art form unique. You can break all the "rules" set down by master collectors centuries ago, and still find & display a stone of your own that looks great and has meaning to you. Use your Imagination... Enjoy, Mike mike@colellaphoto.com www.colellaphoto.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jennifer isham Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:23 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki Awhile ago there was a discussion thread about suiseki. Does anyone have a list of shows in the Midwest or Florida where suiseki can be seen? I checked on suiseki.com but couldn't find anything there relevant to my question. Thanks. jennifer _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Mon Jan 16 11:37:51 2006 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Mon Jan 16 11:37:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stardust In-Reply-To: <20060116171228.30C6CE5BC7@ws7-2.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: NASA and Berkeley are looking for folks to help scan the samples and look for interplanetary dust particles. You can do it on your home computer this spring and summer. Information for signing up as interested in helping do this is on this site: http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ Also lots of good info on this project. Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 On 1/16/06 11:12 AM, "rain forest" wrote: > Stayed up late Saturday and the cloud cover parted just enought to catch a > glimpse of the re-entry then watched the NASA feed of the touch down. Most of > the captured material will be microscopic and take many years to analyze. > > But talk about a micro to die for! > > David Bese > The Rainforest Hippie > Pt. Orchard, Wa. > > "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in > madness." > "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and use it > for change." > "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of energy, > loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." > From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Jan 16 11:43:01 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Mon Jan 16 11:45:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stardust References: Message-ID: <004e01c61ad5$137ea160$0200a8c0@warren> Cool! Can't wait!!!! Thanks, William! Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Cordua" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Stardust > NASA and Berkeley are looking for folks to help scan the samples and look > for interplanetary dust particles. You can do it on your home computer > this > spring and summer. Information for signing up as interested in helping do > this is on this site: > http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ Also lots of good info on this > project. > > Dr. William S. Cordua > Professor of Geology/Mineralogy > University of Wisconsin - River Falls > 410 South Third Street > River Falls, WI 54022 > 715-425-3139 > william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu > http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ > "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 > > > > On 1/16/06 11:12 AM, "rain forest" wrote: > >> Stayed up late Saturday and the cloud cover parted just enought to catch >> a >> glimpse of the re-entry then watched the NASA feed of the touch down. >> Most of >> the captured material will be microscopic and take many years to analyze. >> >> But talk about a micro to die for! >> >> David Bese >> The Rainforest Hippie >> Pt. Orchard, Wa. >> >> "There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some >> reason in >> madness." >> "Turbulence is life force. It is opportunity. Let's love turbulence and >> use it >> for change." >> "Every time you don't follow your inner guidance, you feel a loss of >> energy, >> loss of power, a sense of spiritual deadness." >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mike at colellaphoto.com Mon Jan 16 12:04:09 2006 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Mon Jan 16 12:04:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki In-Reply-To: <000501c61ac0$a9e15e00$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <200601161503787.SM03116@mjce4712fb7466> Carol, nice use of materials. Like I mentioned earlier, It might break all the 'rules', but it works and looks great, and more important, you like it I'm sure. For many of the bases for my stones, I like to use found roots. I clean them up, modify them to fit the stone, and it works. Here's a sample of an awesome root & stone by Kermin Hu: http://colellaphoto.com/khroot/pages/KH%20root.htm More photos at (PVSG.org) Michael J. Colella Colella Photography Web: http://colellaphoto.com E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:17 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki Carol, I thought you might be interested in seeing a Suiseki rock I combined with a sphere of petrified palm wood. The Suiseki wood is a piece of petrified wood I found in the Black Rock Desert in Nevada last fall. http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/Suisekiwood.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol J. Bova" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki > Hi Jennifer, > We did a book review in the Eclectic Lapidary on a suiseki book (July > 1, 1997 - Volume 1, Issue 8 > A Review of "Suiseki: The Japanese Art of Miniature Landscape > Stones") and I checked the author's website, > (http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/)and only found references to > exhibits by societies in California, Italy, and Japan. There are some > beautiful pictures there though, and links to other suiseki artists, > articles and information sources under the FAQs and Links section. > > It looks like suiseki is frequently shown in bonsai exhibits, and lists > several in Florida on the Bonsai Societies of Florida site: > http://www.bonsai-bsf.com/ > There's also a site for the North American Bonsai Federation: > http://www.bonsai-wbff.org/rnortham.shtml > > You might be able to check with one of them for other shows and whether > suiseki is part of the show. > > I think suiseki is a fascinating way to use rocks as an art form. > Carol > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com > > (apologies to all for the mis-sent previous message!) > > > On Monday, January 16, 2006, at 07:23 AM, jennifer isham wrote: > > > Awhile ago there was a discussion thread about suiseki. Does anyone > > have a > > list of shows in the Midwest or Florida where suiseki can be seen? I > > checked on suiseki.com but couldn't find anything there relevant to my > > question. > > > > Thanks. > > > > jennifer > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Mon Jan 16 12:42:29 2006 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jan 16 12:42:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki In-Reply-To: <200601161503787.SM03116@mjce4712fb7466> References: <000501c61ac0$a9e15e00$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <200601161503787.SM03116@mjce4712fb7466> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060116103857.02520cb0@incoming.verizon.net> Cool! I have some driftwood I collected on the Kapiti Coast in New Zealand that might work for bases or otherwise in conjunction with stones. They're sort pre-sanded by the beach! I'm going to try driftwood with lava shapes ;) . Aloha, Kitty At 10:04 AM 1/16/2006, Michael J. Colella wrote: >...For many of the bases for my stones, I like to use found roots. I clean >them >up, modify them to fit the stone, and it works. Here's a sample of an >awesome root & stone by Kermin Hu: >http://colellaphoto.com/khroot/pages/KH%20root.htm From bova at mindspring.com Mon Jan 16 14:57:08 2006 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Mon Jan 16 14:55:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki In-Reply-To: <200601161503787.SM03116@mjce4712fb7466> Message-ID: <6BB185A6-86E3-11DA-BA16-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Credit where credit's due.. that piece is one Jay Bates did.. which is a very interesting one..reminded me of a full moon over the mountains... http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/Suisekiwood.jpg When I saw your message, I was just looking at your pictures on the PVSG site. Very nicely done, Michael. Wonder how many others in the rock and gem community blend their skills with wood and stone. You're the second person I'm aware of. Steven Duryea's is a little different. He just did a story about using gemstones with his wood carvings of hummingbirds, and had pics of some of his gem carvings too. Thank you for the additional links.. Carol On Monday, January 16, 2006, at 03:04 PM, Michael J. Colella wrote: > Carol, nice use of materials. Like I mentioned earlier, It might break > all > the 'rules', but it works and looks great, and more important, you > like it > I'm sure. > For many of the bases for my stones, I like to use found roots. I > clean them > up, modify them to fit the stone, and it works. Here's a sample of an > awesome root & stone by Kermin Hu: > http://colellaphoto.com/khroot/pages/KH%20root.htm > > More photos at (PVSG.org) > > Michael J. Colella > Colella Photography > Web: http://colellaphoto.com > E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:17 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki > > Carol, I thought you might be interested in seeing a Suiseki rock I > combined > with a sphere of petrified palm wood. The Suiseki wood is a piece of > petrified wood I found in the Black Rock Desert in Nevada last fall. > http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/Suisekiwood.jpg From mike at colellaphoto.com Mon Jan 16 15:18:14 2006 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Mon Jan 16 15:18:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki In-Reply-To: <6BB185A6-86E3-11DA-BA16-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <200601161818467.SM03116@mjce4712fb7466> I gave a talk on Suiseki to my local gem club (G.L.M.S.D.C.) and many were quite interested. Next meeting people told me they went home and immediately began looking thru there collections, looking for stones of unique shapes. It can be very addictive, and quite enjoyable. One member got so interested, he started buying stones on the internet. Careful before buying stones over the net. I prefer to collect my own. It's part of the enjoyment of the whole art form, and having woodworking as another hobby, I also make my own wooden bases, usually of hard woods with unique grains and color. Enjoy, Mike -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Bova Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 5:57 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki Credit where credit's due.. that piece is one Jay Bates did.. which is a very interesting one..reminded me of a full moon over the mountains... http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/Suisekiwood.jpg When I saw your message, I was just looking at your pictures on the PVSG site. Very nicely done, Michael. Wonder how many others in the rock and gem community blend their skills with wood and stone. You're the second person I'm aware of. Steven Duryea's is a little different. He just did a story about using gemstones with his wood carvings of hummingbirds, and had pics of some of his gem carvings too. Thank you for the additional links.. Carol On Monday, January 16, 2006, at 03:04 PM, Michael J. Colella wrote: > Carol, nice use of materials. Like I mentioned earlier, It might break > all > the 'rules', but it works and looks great, and more important, you > like it > I'm sure. > For many of the bases for my stones, I like to use found roots. I > clean them > up, modify them to fit the stone, and it works. Here's a sample of an > awesome root & stone by Kermin Hu: > http://colellaphoto.com/khroot/pages/KH%20root.htm > > More photos at (PVSG.org) > > Michael J. Colella > Colella Photography > Web: http://colellaphoto.com > E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:17 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki > > Carol, I thought you might be interested in seeing a Suiseki rock I > combined > with a sphere of petrified palm wood. The Suiseki wood is a piece of > petrified wood I found in the Black Rock Desert in Nevada last fall. > http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/Suisekiwood.jpg _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Jan 16 15:38:35 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Mon Jan 16 15:41:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki and Similar and Lack of Talent...:-) References: <200601161818467.SM03116@mjce4712fb7466> Message-ID: <003a01c61af5$fbf7f980$0200a8c0@warren> When John was out of town last spring, I hired some neighbors to help me do a spring cleaning and minor redesign. That is the time when I created John's "Specimen Table", two pieces of 2 x 5 foot glass, with wooden separators, so he can place anything he wants to look at, up to 2.5 - 3 inches high, under the glass. (A lot of the stuff Kitty has sent us is on this table...) This is a coffee table, and while I didn't do the specimens correctly, John added and nudged until it was pretty darn cool. We also set out specimens, (while he was gone) on various stacked glass shelves...looked great. MY contribution (as opposed to telling my helpers "Pick the best, then put them on these shelves" - All I had to do is move a couple of pieces so things balanced weight-wise.) was to create a mini "Sand Garden". I filled a small wooden tray we had with garnet sand, up to about 1/8 inch. Very pretty. I added some pieces of garnet mica schist and some little window chunks of Mica, also from the same areas that we found the garnet and schist. SHOULD have worked. LOL I have OCD (Obsessive-compulsive disorder for those who don't know) and while it is medicated, not EVERYTHING goes away. My little box with its purple garnet sand, mica slabs, garnet/mica schist chunks and tea candles was PRETTY, but it was entirely too regular and orderly. If you've ever had a shelf of random knick-knacks that you've taken down to clean, and try to put them up in the same place, then you understand my problem...it just looked...ummmmm...contrived? What I did instead was make it sort of a "party game" - anyone who comes to visit can move stuff around, change a mica "lens" in front of a candle, move a rock, whatever...if it's ever perfect, I'll put it in a glass case so nobody ever touches it again! Julie P.S. To me, the stupid thing about this story is that I'm a GRAPHIC DESIGNER and don't have this problem in print :D - go figure. From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Mon Jan 16 15:43:04 2006 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 16 15:43:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Stardust Message-ID: <200.10a35655.30fd8988@aol.com> Thank you William, for this link...I've just sent my email addy as a pre-registration. This sounds very exciting, I am also one of the Seti pc users/helpers. Amazing that they can do all this with just pc users from their homes. Jackie In a message dated 1/16/2006 2:38:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu writes: NASA and Berkeley are looking for folks to help scan the samples and look for interplanetary dust particles. You can do it on your home computer this spring and summer. Information for signing up as interested in helping do this is on this site: http://stardustathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ Also lots of good info on this project. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Jan 16 18:31:45 2006 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Jan 16 18:31:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <200601170204.k0H24nnP032435@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20060117023145.74679.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com> Kitty, Carol, Jennifer, etc: I'm glad this thread came back around. This was brought up a couple months ago, and as a result I stopped trying to "hide" my non-mineral rock forms and have been hunting for the cool bonsai like pots to display my choice peices. I even seek them out now in the various windswept lava fields in the desert and have found a couple since this last aired on rockhounds. Rhyolite wears beautifully on the peaks of mountains around here with the flowbanding, can make for promising peices. I don't recall the name of the rockhounds list member with the beautiful slide show on his website, but it was defintely inspiring. He custom made the wood containers to display his art specimens that had me sighing. I liked the asian theme as well Kitty, as I started to collect kimono a few years ago, and now finally have a way to unite my rocks with my kimono and asian stuff! Don't feel bad, I lived in the Alps for a couple years in the 90s and down by Vesuvius for a few years and hadn't a clue about the rich minerals in either area :) I see the peg stuff and quartz from the Italian side of the Alps and just want to choke. Thanks for the forward on this website. Cheers, Tina Message: 8 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:27:11 -1000 From: Kitty & Bill Heacox Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060116080228.024d0d98@incoming.verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Jennifer and Carol, Thanks very much for introducing us to this rockhounds' art form. Any of you who have even a little artistic side will enjoy checking this out. The following site (a link from one Carol references) starts with pictures of collecting suiseki stones, and the lower part show the prize-winning results: http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/CaSusekiSoc.html I'm a bit chagrinned that I knew nothing of this art, since Bill and I lived in Japan for 3 years, and I am somewhat of an expert on Japanese theatre (Noh, Kyogen, Kabuki, Bunraku), and have studied various Japanese arts, including doll-making, pottery, flower arranging, sumi-e, silk painting, woodblock prints....but I'd never heard of suiseki! What a wonderful discovery---something that blends my love of rocks with my love of Japanese arts! Mahalo, Kitty PS Bill has just looked at the pictures and said, "You could do that. You should try it." We'll see. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Jan 16 18:35:57 2006 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Jan 16 18:36:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] suiseki (resend) In-Reply-To: <200601170204.k0H24nnP032435@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20060117023557.32986.qmail@web60814.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry for the last send without the change in subj line. I noted as I read thru the rest of the digest that it WAS micheal colella's website I referred to in my email that had inspired me. Kitty, Carol, Jennifer, etc: I'm glad this thread came back around. This was brought up a couple months ago, and as a result I stopped trying to "hide" my non-mineral rock forms and have been hunting for the cool bonsai like pots to display my choice peices. I even seek them out now in the various windswept lava fields in the desert and have found a couple since this last aired on rockhounds. Rhyolite wears beautifully on the peaks of mountains around here with the flowbanding, can make for promising peices. I don't recall the name of the rockhounds list member with the beautiful slide show on his website, but it was defintely inspiring. He custom made the wood containers to display his art specimens that had me sighing. I liked the asian theme as well Kitty, as I started to collect kimono a few years ago, and now finally have a way to unite my rocks with my kimono and asian stuff! Don't feel bad, I lived in the Alps for a couple years in the 90s and down by Vesuvius for a few years and hadn't a clue about the rich minerals in either area :) I see the peg stuff and quartz from the Italian side of the Alps and just want to choke. Thanks for the forward on this website. Cheers, Tina Message: 8 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:27:11 -1000 From: Kitty & Bill Heacox Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060116080228.024d0d98@incoming.verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Jennifer and Carol, Thanks very much for introducing us to this rockhounds' art form. Any of you who have even a little artistic side will enjoy checking this out. The following site (a link from one Carol references) starts with pictures of collecting suiseki stones, and the lower part show the prize-winning results: http://www.felixrivera-suiseki.com/CaSusekiSoc.html I'm a bit chagrinned that I knew nothing of this art, since Bill and I lived in Japan for 3 years, and I am somewhat of an expert on Japanese theatre (Noh, Kyogen, Kabuki, Bunraku), and have studied various Japanese arts, including doll-making, pottery, flower arranging, sumi-e, silk painting, woodblock prints....but I'd never heard of suiseki! What a wonderful discovery---something that blends my love of rocks with my love of Japanese arts! Mahalo, Kitty PS Bill has just looked at the pictures and said, "You could do that. You should try it." We'll see. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dnorris at frii.com Mon Jan 16 21:02:24 2006 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Mon Jan 16 21:02:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Off topic, a little, Silversmithing tools References: <20060117023557.32986.qmail@web60814.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43CC7A60.5050003@frii.com> I thought about not sending this to this list because it is off topic, and almost an advertising, but since it might interest some of you and it is free, I thought I should at least the members of this list know about it. It was a question asked on one of my lists on Yahoo after I answered one about being able to do Silversmithing on the kitchen table. Hi Judy, I will make a web site tonight so that I can put photos with the discriptions. Or, I could send you the first four lessons of my Beginning Silversmithing that I teach online and on CDs. I have decided to make these first four lessons free on cd too. I guess, while I am typing this, I will just do that. If anyone wants to have these first four lessons free just send me $200.00 for shipping and handling! NO, NO, I will cover the shipping and handling too. So no charge for either the cds or email lessons. Just email me your address off list. They cover all the tools and supplies needed for Silversmithing. I will send you the website address tonight, late, very lake. I will make another, almost free offer. I have about 100 extra of my Lapidary Class on CD. I sold over 200 of them last year to a bulk buy group (for $39.00), but some how we made over 300.If you would like to have it and the free lessons, go to PayPal,and send me, dnorris@frii.com only $10.00. I will send you 2 cds, the free four lessons, the Lapidary Class. By the way I teach it so that students can grind to shape and polish any stone from amber to zebra agate with only a $40.00 grinder from the hardware store. Ok, ok, I do not know of any zebra agate! It just sounded good! But my lessons will teach you to work with any and all stones for cabochons. It would be almost free at $10.00 and no shipping costs. I welcome any and all questions. Don Norris From iridius at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 21:04:45 2006 From: iridius at gmail.com (Iridius Espedon Von Luxx) Date: Mon Jan 16 21:04:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tiger Mountain Amber? Message-ID: <001301c61b23$8a3b5f70$0501a8c0@mobulis> Does anyone have any experience collecting amber on Tiger Mountain and know where I can get either directions or GPS info to the spots where collecting is best. Also, anyone have experience at Hanson Creek collecting amethyst? Thanks for any help. Iridius From dnorris at frii.com Mon Jan 16 21:15:57 2006 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Mon Jan 16 21:16:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Off topic, a little, Silversmithing tools References: <20060117023557.32986.qmail@web60814.mail.yahoo.com> <43CC7A60.5050003@frii.com> Message-ID: <43CC7D8D.10501@frii.com> Don Norris wrote: > I thought about not sending this to this list because it is off topic, > and almost an advertising, but since it might interest some of you and > it is free, I thought I should at least the members of this list know > about it. It was a question asked on one of my lists on Yahoo after I > answered one about being able to do Silversmithing on the kitchen table. > > Hi Judy, > I will make a web site tonight so that I can put photos with the > discriptions. Or, I could send you the first four lessons of my > Beginning Silversmithing that I teach online and on CDs. I have decided > to make these first four lessons free on cd too. I guess, while I am > typing this, I will just do that. If anyone wants to have these first > four lessons free just send me $200.00 for shipping and handling! NO, > NO, I will cover the shipping and handling too. So no charge for either > the cds or email lessons. Just email me your address off list. They > cover all the tools and supplies needed for Silversmithing. I will send > you the website address tonight, late, very lake. > > > I will make another, almost free offer. I have about 100 extra of my > Lapidary Class on CD. I sold over 200 of them last year to a bulk buy > group (for $39.00), but some how we made over 300.If you would like to > have it and the free lessons, go to PayPal,and send me, dnorris@frii.com > only $10.00. I will send you 2 cds, the free four lessons, the > Lapidary Class. By the way I teach it so that students can grind to > shape and polish any stone from amber to zebra agate with only a $40.00 > grinder from the hardware store. Ok, ok, I do not know of any zebra > agate! It just sounded good! But my lessons will teach you to work with > any and all stones for cabochons. It would be almost free at $10.00 and > no shipping costs. > > I welcome any and all questions. > Don Norris > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From libawc at emory.edu Tue Jan 17 04:13:51 2006 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita D. Westlake) Date: Tue Jan 17 04:13:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki In-Reply-To: <200601161818467.SM03116@mjce4712fb7466> Message-ID: <001101c61b5f$7a721de0$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Mike: Not to go "too far a field" on this topic, but how do you make the bases? They are stunning! Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Michael J. Colella Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 6:18 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Suiseki I gave a talk on Suiseki to my local gem club (G.L.M.S.D.C.) and many were quite interested. Next meeting people told me they went home and immediately began looking thru there collections, looking for stones of unique shapes. It can be very addictive, and quite enjoyable. One member got so interested, he started buying stones on the internet. Careful before buying stones over the net. I prefer to collect my own. It's part of the enjoyment of the whole art form, and having woodworking as another hobby, I also make my own wooden bases, usually of hard woods with unique grains and color. Enjoy, Mike -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Bova Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 5:57 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki Credit where credit's due.. that piece is one Jay Bates did.. which is a very interesting one..reminded me of a full moon over the mountains... http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/Suisekiwood.jpg When I saw your message, I was just looking at your pictures on the PVSG site. Very nicely done, Michael. Wonder how many others in the rock and gem community blend their skills with wood and stone. You're the second person I'm aware of. Steven Duryea's is a little different. He just did a story about using gemstones with his wood carvings of hummingbirds, and had pics of some of his gem carvings too. Thank you for the additional links.. Carol On Monday, January 16, 2006, at 03:04 PM, Michael J. Colella wrote: > Carol, nice use of materials. Like I mentioned earlier, It might break > all > the 'rules', but it works and looks great, and more important, you > like it > I'm sure. > For many of the bases for my stones, I like to use found roots. I > clean them > up, modify them to fit the stone, and it works. Here's a sample of an > awesome root & stone by Kermin Hu: > http://colellaphoto.com/khroot/pages/KH%20root.htm > > More photos at (PVSG.org) > > Michael J. Colella > Colella Photography > Web: http://colellaphoto.com > E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:17 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki > > Carol, I thought you might be interested in seeing a Suiseki rock I > combined > with a sphere of petrified palm wood. The Suiseki wood is a piece of > petrified wood I found in the Black Rock Desert in Nevada last fall. > http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/Suisekiwood.jpg _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Tue Jan 17 05:24:17 2006 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Tue Jan 17 05:24:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki References: <6BB185A6-86E3-11DA-BA16-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <017401c61b69$522e7450$655fe842@Titans> Hi Ya'll, Ghee I didn't know Suiseke was what it was called, I have been using rock and wood for many, many years, they are all over the country now, Christmas gifts, Birthdays, and of course I have several going at the same time, my first one was done with a artifact in 1947. so I'll post a couple that's unfinished latter, some have been used in Diamond displays in Hong Kong in 1957.....there just darn fun, and where I live in Oregon State now there is just so much material to work with in the desert all around me, I especially work the bottoms of dry washes, many old roots can not penetrate the ground far due to rocks so they fan out making fantastic art forms of all kinds, some of the gully washers we get exposes them finally, those and many different kinds of agate, Jasper and petrified woods of all colors, of which I collect and cut free forms out of. Another one of interest, years ago living next to a busy highway I moved a rather large boulder of granite up out of a hole it was in, and left it to be moved out of the field the next day. at lunch time I noticed it looked kinda artistic, not moving it then I finally came up with what it needed, some popularity....so, I hunted about the country for just the right shaped bounder, one about a foot thick and two feet high, took a year and a half but finally found just what I was looking for, the first step was using a star hand drill I sank a hole into each boulder at just the right spot, took some small chipping here and there on the bottom of the new find and connected the two with a piece of rebar, putting cement into the top hole and letting it set, next doing the same in the big boulders hole and setting the rock on the pin, twisting it so it was just right...and there it was, the out of balanced rock of sucker holler, I lost count of how many cars would drive by slowly looking at that rock and wondering how on earth it hadn't fallen over yet. The hardest part was trying to connect the two together due to the weight, was all two of us could do, of course all of the work was at night time. the same as them crop circle fella's do. now aint that a hoot. As a kid I used to take the tops of closely growing young lodge pole pine trees and bend them into a circle when the sap is up, tying them there with the small limbs, checking on them from time to time until they have reached the size for use, a full circle pole of 6 inch diameter, imagine the expressions when I tell people " I did that " My largest one a 10 inch diameter was stolen near Spokane Washington in 1993, it had an old wagon wheel in it, wooden spokes were all that could be seen at the time as the tree grew around it One done out of a bent Alder top grew with a wine bottle wedged cross ways in it. with that one came a tale of the night the trees got drunk, and there's the proof. I have done this all over the country leaving them grow, once in a while I hear people talking about the weird way some of these trees grow....makes my day. ( smile ) So now out of Harper Oregon West on Highway # 20 junction there's this big tree along the Highway called the Shoe Tree, many pairs of shoes and western boots no longer worn are hanging up in the branches, just tied together and thrown a way up there, and no one knows who started it, but its the talk of the country now. giggle. which goes to show ya, just start something and the rest will follow. Opps, did ya hear that ????....sounded like one of them thar Sasquatches rollen rocks again.... Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol J. Bova" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki > Credit where credit's due.. that piece is one Jay Bates did.. which is a > very interesting one..reminded me of a full moon over the mountains... > http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/Suisekiwood.jpg > > When I saw your message, I was just looking at your pictures on the PVSG > site. Very nicely done, Michael. > > Wonder how many others in the rock and gem community blend their skills > with wood and stone. You're the second person I'm aware of. Steven > Duryea's is a little different. He just did a story about using gemstones > with his wood carvings of hummingbirds, and had pics of some of his gem > carvings too. > > Thank you for the additional links.. > Carol > > On Monday, January 16, 2006, at 03:04 PM, Michael J. Colella wrote: > >> Carol, nice use of materials. Like I mentioned earlier, It might break >> all >> the 'rules', but it works and looks great, and more important, you like >> it >> I'm sure. >> For many of the bases for my stones, I like to use found roots. I clean >> them >> up, modify them to fit the stone, and it works. Here's a sample of an >> awesome root & stone by Kermin Hu: >> http://colellaphoto.com/khroot/pages/KH%20root.htm >> >> More photos at (PVSG.org) >> >> Michael J. Colella >> Colella Photography >> Web: http://colellaphoto.com >> E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates >> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:17 PM >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki >> >> Carol, I thought you might be interested in seeing a Suiseki rock I >> combined >> with a sphere of petrified palm wood. The Suiseki wood is a piece of >> petrified wood I found in the Black Rock Desert in Nevada last fall. >> http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/Suisekiwood.jpg > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From mike at colellaphoto.com Tue Jan 17 07:40:54 2006 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Tue Jan 17 07:40:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suiseki In-Reply-To: <001101c61b5f$7a721de0$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: <200601171040973.SM03116@mjce4712fb7466> Hard woods, a few tools, accuracy and a lot of patience. I'll elaborate later. Mike -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Anita D. Westlake Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:14 AM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Suiseki Mike: Not to go "too far a field" on this topic, but how do you make the bases? They are stunning! Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Michael J. Colella Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 6:18 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Suiseki I gave a talk on Suiseki to my local gem club (G.L.M.S.D.C.) and many were quite interested. Next meeting people told me they went home and immediately began looking thru there collections, looking for stones of unique shapes. It can be very addictive, and quite enjoyable. One member got so interested, he started buying stones on the internet. Careful before buying stones over the net. I prefer to collect my own. It's part of the enjoyment of the whole art form, and having woodworking as another hobby, I also make my own wooden bases, usually of hard woods with unique grains and color. Enjoy, Mike -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Carol J. Bova Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 5:57 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki Credit where credit's due.. that piece is one Jay Bates did.. which is a very interesting one..reminded me of a full moon over the mountains... http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/Suisekiwood.jpg When I saw your message, I was just looking at your pictures on the PVSG site. Very nicely done, Michael. Wonder how many others in the rock and gem community blend their skills with wood and stone. You're the second person I'm aware of. Steven Duryea's is a little different. He just did a story about using gemstones with his wood carvings of hummingbirds, and had pics of some of his gem carvings too. Thank you for the additional links.. Carol On Monday, January 16, 2006, at 03:04 PM, Michael J. Colella wrote: > Carol, nice use of materials. Like I mentioned earlier, It might break > all > the 'rules', but it works and looks great, and more important, you > like it > I'm sure. > For many of the bases for my stones, I like to use found roots. I > clean them > up, modify them to fit the stone, and it works. Here's a sample of an > awesome root & stone by Kermin Hu: > http://colellaphoto.com/khroot/pages/KH%20root.htm > > More photos at (PVSG.org) > > Michael J. Colella > Colella Photography > Web: http://colellaphoto.com > E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 12:17 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suiseki > > Carol, I thought you might be interested in seeing a Suiseki rock I > combined > with a sphere of petrified palm wood. The Suiseki wood is a piece of > petrified wood I found in the Black Rock Desert in Nevada last fall. > http://users.rcn.com/jaybates/Suisekiwood.jpg _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Tue Jan 17 07:58:51 2006 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Tue Jan 17 08:00:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The new guy. Message-ID: <20060117155851.XTUU5113.ibm64aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Hello! My name is Edward J. Wagner. I've been an active collector since 1998 in W.NC. I started collecting corundum, but shifted to a site in Yancey Co. NC, the Ray Mica Mine, to which I've been going for five years+.I live south of Asheville NC., belong to the Southern Appalachiam Mineral Soc. and Mountain Area Gem and Mineral Assoc. (SAMS & MAGMA). I have an extensive collection of about 5000 pieces. I need information on some of the species habits, and would prefer getting it from active field collectors, since the "books" tend to be very general, and even Geo.Surveys do not account , at times, for each individual specimen, or espec. those which are overlooked by the field collector. I'm new to the internet, but am glad to have found a forum. Thanks, EJW From tim at orerockon.com Tue Jan 17 08:31:55 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jan 17 08:32:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tiger Mountain Amber? In-Reply-To: <001301c61b23$8a3b5f70$0501a8c0@mobulis> References: <001301c61b23$8a3b5f70$0501a8c0@mobulis> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060117082655.034cd958@orerockon.com> You might want to check to see whether Tiger Mountain is still under a mineral lease. Call the DGER in Olympia. It had been leased by Bob Jackson of Geology Adventures. The WSMC Hansen Creek claim was closed to collecting by the USFS a while ago due to general stupidity (see the WA State Min. Council website). I don't know the current status but there are still two active claims there and although I do know of other sites to collect in the area the chances of finding something nice there are slim. Now for the shameless self-promotion: The waypoints are on my CD :) At 09:04 PM 1/16/2006, you wrote: >Does anyone have any experience collecting amber on Tiger Mountain and know >where I can get either directions or GPS info to the spots where collecting >is best. > >Also, anyone have experience at Hanson Creek collecting amethyst? > >Thanks for any help. > >Iridius Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD From pbhewitt at comcast.net Tue Jan 17 08:47:06 2006 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Tue Jan 17 08:47:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is it? References: <001301c61b23$8a3b5f70$0501a8c0@mobulis> <7.0.0.16.2.20060117082655.034cd958@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <001401c61b85$a9f9ab70$6601a8c0@maingear> I just found this little bit of material with my 20x microscope. It is tucked up under a shelf on a small piece of biotite schist from Prospect Park, Pa. I took the pic with my digital through the scope so the quality isnt the greatest but you can see the item pretty well. It is less than a mm long. There is another much smaller piece of the same color stuck to the schist just a few mm's away. Anyone have any idea what it could be? http://www.paulsminerals.com/unkowns/aqua1.html Paul in Marietta, Pa From dlzack825 at aol.com Tue Jan 17 09:08:24 2006 From: dlzack825 at aol.com (dlzack825@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 17 09:08:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The new guy. In-Reply-To: <20060117155851.XTUU5113.ibm64aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> References: <20060117155851.XTUU5113.ibm64aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <8C7E99FC2FA5858-A50-E774@mblk-d17.sysops.aol.com> Welcome! I too am new to the forum...signed up last week. Do you have any apatite crystals for trade from the Ray Mica Mine or hyalite opal from the Spruce Pine area? I collect fluorescent minerals have both fluorescent and daylight minerals from Northern New York for trade. Thanks, Dino -----Original Message----- From: edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:58:51 -0500 Subject: [Rockhounds] The new guy. Hello! My name is Edward J. Wagner. I've been an active collector since 1998 in W.NC. I started collecting corundum, but shifted to a site in Yancey Co. NC, the Ray Mica Mine, to which I've been going for five years+.I live south of Asheville NC., belong to the Southern Appalachiam Mineral Soc. and Mountain Area Gem and Mineral Assoc. (SAMS & MAGMA). I have an extensive collection of about 5000 pieces. I need information on some of the species habits, and would prefer getting it from active field collectors, since the "books" tend to be very general, and even Geo.Surveys do not account , at times, for each individual specimen, or espec. those which are overlooked by the field collector. I'm new to the internet, but am glad to have found a forum. Thanks, EJW _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 17 09:11:49 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 17 09:11:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is it? In-Reply-To: <001401c61b85$a9f9ab70$6601a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: Definitely a flouartistiqueite. People who still have the original LP from the motion picture "Bilitis" should know what is generally meant by the term: flou artistique. The mindat database seems to know only three minerals from the Prospect Park locality (Morton Homestead, Prospect Park, Ridley Township, Delaware Co., Pennsylvania... I assume that's the one?) Almandine Kyanite Microcline This doesn't look much like one of those... Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Paul Verzonden: dinsdag 17 januari 2006 17:47 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] What is it? I just found this little bit of material with my 20x microscope. It is tucked up under a shelf on a small piece of biotite schist from Prospect Park, Pa. I took the pic with my digital through the scope so the quality isnt the greatest but you can see the item pretty well. It is less than a mm long. There is another much smaller piece of the same color stuck to the schist just a few mm's away. Anyone have any idea what it could be? http://www.paulsminerals.com/unkowns/aqua1.html Paul in Marietta, Pa _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pbhewitt at comcast.net Tue Jan 17 09:17:09 2006 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Tue Jan 17 09:17:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is it? References: Message-ID: <004001c61b89$d9787ee0$6601a8c0@maingear> That list on mindat is way short. I have identified 12 different minerals from there and the list keeps growing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:11 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] What is it? > Definitely a flouartistiqueite. > People who still have the original LP from the motion picture "Bilitis" > should know what is generally meant by the term: flou artistique. > > The mindat database seems to know only three minerals from the Prospect > Park > locality (Morton Homestead, Prospect Park, Ridley Township, Delaware Co., > Pennsylvania... I assume that's the one?) > > Almandine > Kyanite > Microcline > > This doesn't look much like one of those... > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Paul > Verzonden: dinsdag 17 januari 2006 17:47 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] What is it? > > > I just found this little bit of material with my 20x microscope. It is > tucked up under a shelf on a small piece of biotite schist from Prospect > Park, Pa. I took the pic with my digital through the scope so the quality > isnt the greatest but you can see the item pretty well. It is less than a > mm long. There is another much smaller piece of the same color stuck to > the > schist just a few mm's away. Anyone have any idea what it could be? > > http://www.paulsminerals.com/unkowns/aqua1.html > > Paul in Marietta, Pa > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Jan 17 11:04:09 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Jan 17 11:04:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question Message-ID: <002501c61b98$cd2bb350$4897b2d1@TheBlackAdder> An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable origin of this directive? It doesn't make any sense to me either. Erich Kern Fw. message: ****************** Ash and firewood ****************** From: Chris Nye An ash advisory that was issued immediately after a small eruption of Augustine Volcano warned residents not to burn firewood in stoves or fireplaces if the wood had volcanic ash on it. The warning was picked up and repeated by the national and international press. The Alaska Volcano Observatory has had a surprising amount of email asking for the basis of the warning. No one at AVO knows the basis, nor does anyone from the agency that issued the warning. Questions for the listserv are: (1) Is there a rational basis for this warning? and (2) Where in the literature of eruption preparedness did this come from? I've checked with a local woodstove retailer, a woodstove manufacturer, and a testing lab that concerns itself with chemical and environmental issues in wood-fueled heating. They were unaware of specific issues with burning ash-covered wood. Guesses about potential issues involve re-entrainment of ash in flues, sulfur-based corrosion issues, chemical or mechanical damage to catalytic converters (not an issue in fireplaces or many woodstoves), and vaguely conceived toxicity issues involving Cl or transition metals. The surprisingly robust life of this issue makes us curious. Replies to cnye@giseis.alaska.edu will be appreciated. =========================================== Christopher Nye Alaska Volcano Observatory Alaska Division of Geological and Geophysical Surveys cnye@giseis.alaska.edu, ph: (907) 474-7430 snailmail: Chris Nye, AVO/DGGS, UAF Geophysical Institute, 903 Koyukuk Drive, Fairbanks, AK 99775-7320 ============================================================== From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Jan 17 09:11:43 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Jan 17 11:14:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question References: <002501c61b98$cd2bb350$4897b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <000901c61b89$1b33ffe0$0300a8c0@otie> I don't know of any issues with burning ash-covered wood, but it will dull a chainsaw blade right quick! John By the toasty wood stove in Santa, ID > An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable origin of this directive? It doesn't > make any sense to me either. > > Erich Kern From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jan 17 11:31:03 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jan 17 11:31:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is it? Message-ID: <011720061931.25199.43CD45F6000A6E250000626F216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Your green mineral could be a copper mineral or a uranium mineral, or both... autunite torbernite etc. as to the "Bilitis" movie and flou artistique , I'm pretty blank on that, Axel, but I'm sure I could browse online and find out. But, hey, I'm the guy who didn't even know where Oz was! Pete -------------- Original message from "Paul" : -------------- > That list on mindat is way short. I have identified 12 different minerals > from there and the list keeps growing. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:11 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] What is it? > > > > Definitely a flouartistiqueite. > > People who still have the original LP from the motion picture "Bilitis" > > should know what is generally meant by the term: flou artistique. > > > > The mindat database seems to know only three minerals from the Prospect > > Park > > locality (Morton Homestead, Prospect Park, Ridley Township, Delaware Co., > > Pennsylvania... I assume that's the one?) > > > > Almandine > > Kyanite > > Microcline > > > > This doesn't look much like one of those... > > > > Axel > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Paul > > Verzonden: dinsdag 17 januari 2006 17:47 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] What is it? > > > > > > I just found this little bit of material with my 20x microscope. It is > > tucked up under a shelf on a small piece of biotite schist from Prospect > > Park, Pa. I took the pic with my digital through the scope so the quality > > isnt the greatest but you can see the item pretty well. It is less than a > > mm long. There is another much smaller piece of the same color stuck to > > the > > schist just a few mm's away. Anyone have any idea what it could be? > > > > http://www.paulsminerals.com/unkowns/aqua1.html > > > > Paul in Marietta, Pa > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Tue Jan 17 11:32:21 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Tue Jan 17 11:32:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] suiseki - Japanese for pretty rocks? Message-ID: <20060117193221.1656.qmail@web34605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi: Several years ago I attended a meeting at EPA Region III in Philidelphia. The afternoon it ended, by boss and I just went to the airport early, it's a pretty bog one, and planned to stroll the length of the place. About half way from the right / first terminal (A) to our terminal, the last terminal (F I think...where the tiny communter planes with propellors fly) there was a large art exhibit. At the time, the art was Suiseki rocks. I guess the guy was a famous collector, but the rocks were totally wonderful. So now I try to see or look in that special artistic way when looking at rocks in a creekbed or lying on the hillside. Easier said than done, for sure. My rockhound buddy Dan gave me a big fossiliferous rock that looks (if you use your imagination a little!) like an elephant's head, and we've placed several other marine fossils around that big rock in the round room downstairs, sort of hillbilly suiseki, maybe? Running into a really nice art show on the wall of the Philly airport was pretty nice. But the kicker was, we had to leave security to get from concourse D to our commuter concourse, where there was, of course, another long line waiting to get through security... Sometimes ya' just can't win! JR in WV --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 17 11:32:37 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 17 11:32:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is it? In-Reply-To: <004001c61b89$d9787ee0$6601a8c0@maingear> Message-ID: Yeah, by the people, for the people ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Paul Verzonden: dinsdag 17 januari 2006 18:17 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] What is it? That list on mindat is way short. I have identified 12 different minerals from there and the list keeps growing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:11 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] What is it? > Definitely a flouartistiqueite. > People who still have the original LP from the motion picture "Bilitis" > should know what is generally meant by the term: flou artistique. > > The mindat database seems to know only three minerals from the Prospect > Park > locality (Morton Homestead, Prospect Park, Ridley Township, Delaware Co., > Pennsylvania... I assume that's the one?) > > Almandine > Kyanite > Microcline > > This doesn't look much like one of those... > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Paul > Verzonden: dinsdag 17 januari 2006 17:47 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] What is it? > > > I just found this little bit of material with my 20x microscope. It is > tucked up under a shelf on a small piece of biotite schist from Prospect > Park, Pa. I took the pic with my digital through the scope so the quality > isnt the greatest but you can see the item pretty well. It is less than a > mm long. There is another much smaller piece of the same color stuck to > the > schist just a few mm's away. Anyone have any idea what it could be? > > http://www.paulsminerals.com/unkowns/aqua1.html > > Paul in Marietta, Pa > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Tue Jan 17 11:46:35 2006 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jan 17 11:46:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The new guy. In-Reply-To: <20060117155851.XTUU5113.ibm64aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellso uth.net> References: <20060117155851.XTUU5113.ibm64aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060117094339.03e1ee08@incoming.verizon.net> Welcome, EJW, I can't help you on your information request, but I have to say I love the name of your second organization: MAGMA. Aloha from the land where a little magma is flowing into the ocean, Kitty At 05:58 AM 1/17/2006, you wrote: >Hello! My name is Edward J. Wagner. I've been an active collector since >1998 in W.NC. I started collecting corundum, but shifted to a site in >Yancey Co. NC, the Ray Mica Mine, to which I've been going for five >years+.I live south of Asheville NC., belong to the Southern Appalachiam >Mineral Soc. and Mountain Area Gem and Mineral Assoc. (SAMS & MAGMA). I >have an extensive collection of about 5000 pieces. I need information on >some of the species habits, and would prefer getting it from active field >collectors, since the "books" tend to be very general, and even >Geo.Surveys do not account , at times, for each individual specimen, or >espec. those which are overlooked by the field collector. I'm new to the >internet, but am glad to have found a forum. Thanks, EJW From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 17 13:06:11 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 17 13:06:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is it? In-Reply-To: <011720061931.25199.43CD45F6000A6E250000626F216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: So you're NOT the Tin man? I'm shocked... Would devilline be far-fetched? Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net Verzonden: dinsdag 17 januari 2006 20:31 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] What is it? Your green mineral could be a copper mineral or a uranium mineral, or both... autunite torbernite etc. as to the "Bilitis" movie and flou artistique , I'm pretty blank on that, Axel, but I'm sure I could browse online and find out. But, hey, I'm the guy who didn't even know where Oz was! Pete -------------- Original message from "Paul" : -------------- > That list on mindat is way short. I have identified 12 different minerals > from there and the list keeps growing. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:11 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] What is it? > > > > Definitely a flouartistiqueite. > > People who still have the original LP from the motion picture "Bilitis" > > should know what is generally meant by the term: flou artistique. > > > > The mindat database seems to know only three minerals from the Prospect > > Park > > locality (Morton Homestead, Prospect Park, Ridley Township, Delaware Co., > > Pennsylvania... I assume that's the one?) > > > > Almandine > > Kyanite > > Microcline > > > > This doesn't look much like one of those... > > > > Axel > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Paul > > Verzonden: dinsdag 17 januari 2006 17:47 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] What is it? > > > > > > I just found this little bit of material with my 20x microscope. It is > > tucked up under a shelf on a small piece of biotite schist from Prospect > > Park, Pa. I took the pic with my digital through the scope so the quality > > isnt the greatest but you can see the item pretty well. It is less than a > > mm long. There is another much smaller piece of the same color stuck to > > the > > schist just a few mm's away. Anyone have any idea what it could be? > > > > http://www.paulsminerals.com/unkowns/aqua1.html > > > > Paul in Marietta, Pa > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Tue Jan 17 13:40:46 2006 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Tue Jan 17 13:41:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question In-Reply-To: <002501c61b98$cd2bb350$4897b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <200601172141.k0HLepMt029402@cti06.citenet.net> Reply to both the list and the author. This is only a WAG (Wild Assed Guess), however, Could it have to do with some of the new EPA approved woodstoves having a type of catalytic converter in the outflow pipe so has to cut down on emissions being affected by sulfur or simple mechanical clogging from the ash? Like I said Just a guess. As far as the 30 Gallon Barrel stove and old stovepipe in my shop go, well they will bun anything, but I understand the new stoves are quite finicky Kay -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Erich Kern Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:04 PM To: Rockhounds List Cc: Howard Hayden; Gylver; Viv Forbes Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable origin of this directive? It doesn't make any sense to me either. Erich Kern Fw. message: ****************** Ash and firewood ****************** From: Chris Nye An ash advisory that was issued immediately after a small eruption of Augustine Volcano warned residents not to burn firewood in stoves or fireplaces if the wood had volcanic ash on it. The warning was picked up and repeated by the national and international press. The Alaska Volcano Observatory has had a surprising amount of email asking for the basis of the warning. No one at AVO knows the basis, nor does anyone from the agency that issued the warning. Questions for the listserv are: (1) Is there a rational basis for this warning? and (2) Where in the literature of eruption preparedness did this come from? I've checked with a local woodstove retailer, a woodstove manufacturer, and a testing lab that concerns itself with chemical and environmental issues in wood-fueled heating. They were unaware of specific issues with burning ash-covered wood. Guesses about potential issues involve re-entrainment of ash in flues, sulfur-based corrosion issues, chemical or mechanical damage to catalytic converters (not an issue in fireplaces or many woodstoves), and vaguely conceived toxicity issues involving Cl or transition metals. The surprisingly robust life of this issue makes us curious. Replies to cnye@giseis.alaska.edu will be appreciated. =========================================== Christopher Nye Alaska Volcano Observatory Alaska Division of Geological and Geophysical Surveys cnye@giseis.alaska.edu, ph: (907) 474-7430 snailmail: Chris Nye, AVO/DGGS, UAF Geophysical Institute, 903 Koyukuk Drive, Fairbanks, AK 99775-7320 ============================================================== _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jan 17 14:11:00 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jan 17 14:11:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is it? Message-ID: <011720062211.518.43CD6B74000559FD00000206215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> After surfing a bit, Axel, now I know about flou artistique, though what I found was all in French on Google, and I had to hit the "translate" button. It sounds like a good excuse, for every time someone's mineral pictures come out fuzzy! And as to Bilitis, the movie, well, perhaps I could say that "rockhounds" don't look at those sort of movies, or, (it was from the 1970s) maybe I was living in a city then that did not have the sort of artsy/risque theatres that showed them! : ) Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Jan 17 15:29:07 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Jan 17 15:29:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The new guy. In-Reply-To: <20060117155851.XTUU5113.ibm64aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Welcome New Guy! You have found a site full of very knowledgeable rockhounds! I am sure we can learn from and share Knowledge and experience with you. Your collection sounds outstanding. Maybe you can post a link to some pictures. What are your special interests? Fossils, flourescents, agates, crystal formations, or whatever. Enjoy the list as those of us here surely do! Glenn Wimpee From: <edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net> Subject: [Rockhounds] The new guy. Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:58:51 -0500 Hello! My name is Edward J. Wagner. I've been an active collector since 1998 in W.NC. I started collecting corundum, but shifted to a site in Yancey Co. NC, the Ray Mica Mine, to which I've been going for five years+.I live south of Asheville NC., belong to the Southern Appalachiam Mineral Soc. and Mountain Area Gem and Mineral Assoc. (SAMS & MAGMA). I have an extensive collection of about 5000 pieces. I need information on some of the species habits, and would prefer getting it from active field collectors, since the "books" tend to be very general, and even Geo.Surveys do not account , at times, for each individual specimen, or espec. those which are overlooked by the field collector. I'm new to the internet, but am glad to have found a forum. Thanks, EJW ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Search, shop, and browse smarter using tabs with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jan 17 15:49:45 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 17 15:46:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question References: <002501c61b98$cd2bb350$4897b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <43CD81E9.5D8A@Tomaszewski.net> Volcanic ash is a hazard to aircraft because it can erode jet engine parts and melt and solidify on moving parts, leading to engine failure. Perhaps the warning is concerned with damage to flue dampers leading to CO poisoning or a fire hazard. Kreigh Erich Kern wrote: > > An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable origin of this directive? It doesn't > make any sense to me either. > > Erich Kern > > Fw. message: > > ****************** > Ash and firewood > ****************** > From: Chris Nye > > An ash advisory that was issued immediately after a small eruption of > Augustine Volcano warned residents not to burn firewood in stoves or > fireplaces if the wood had volcanic ash on it. The warning was picked up > and repeated by the national and international press. The Alaska Volcano > Observatory has had a surprising amount of email asking for the basis of > the warning. No one at AVO knows the basis, nor does anyone from the > agency that issued the warning. > > Questions for the listserv are: (1) Is there a rational basis for this > warning? and (2) Where in the literature of eruption preparedness did this > come from? > > I've checked with a local woodstove retailer, a woodstove manufacturer, and > a testing lab that concerns itself with chemical and environmental issues > in wood-fueled heating. They were unaware of specific issues with burning > ash-covered wood. Guesses about potential issues involve re-entrainment of > ash in flues, sulfur-based corrosion issues, chemical or mechanical damage > to catalytic converters (not an issue in fireplaces or many woodstoves), > and vaguely conceived toxicity issues involving Cl or transition metals. > > The surprisingly robust life of this issue makes us curious. Replies to > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu will be appreciated. > > =========================================== > Christopher Nye > Alaska Volcano Observatory > Alaska Division of Geological and Geophysical Surveys > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu, ph: (907) 474-7430 > snailmail: Chris Nye, AVO/DGGS, UAF Geophysical Institute, 903 Koyukuk > Drive, Fairbanks, AK 99775-7320 > > ============================================================== > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Jan 17 16:29:15 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Jan 17 16:29:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question In-Reply-To: <000901c61b89$1b33ffe0$0300a8c0@otie> Message-ID: OK chemists, any poison gasses likely to be released in potent quantities, or is this typical overprotective Big Brother Glenn From: "John Siebel" <john@pandemoniumgraphics.com> I don't know of any issues with burning ash-covered wood, but it will dull a chainsaw blade right quick! John > Dirt and sand also work wonders on saw chains. GRW >  An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable origin of this directive? It doesn't  make any sense to me either. Erich Kern ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ MSN Premium brings together everything you need on the Internet in 1 place, including PC security! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 16:35:45 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 17 16:35:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question In-Reply-To: References: <000901c61b89$1b33ffe0$0300a8c0@otie> Message-ID: The ash has already been cooked at high temps which would boil off any volatiles. Probably higher temps than are reached in any household fireplace. My off the cuff response: pure hogwash. BK On 1/17/06, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > OK chemists, any poison gasses likely to be released in potent quantities, > or is this typical overprotective Big Brother > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tangojuli at yahoo.com Tue Jan 17 18:08:35 2006 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Tue Jan 17 18:08:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question In-Reply-To: <200601180202.k0I22GKL006661@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20060118020835.26820.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> Another WAG(wild assed guess): Could this be a silica issue? Volcanic ashe is silica which supposedly is dangerous to inhale (silicosis), so maybe burning it introduces it in closed space? Or hogwash is good hypoth... :) tina Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:35:45 -0500 From: J Bryan Kramer Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The ash has already been cooked at high temps which would boil off any volatiles. Probably higher temps than are reached in any household fireplace. My off the cuff response: pure hogwash. BK On 1/17/06, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > OK chemists, any poison gasses likely to be released in potent quantities, > or is this typical overprotective Big Brother > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds mailing list Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 18 ****************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From silicawood at gmail.com Tue Jan 17 18:18:23 2006 From: silicawood at gmail.com (Rockhoundnut) Date: Tue Jan 17 18:18:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tiger Mountain Amber? In-Reply-To: <001301c61b23$8a3b5f70$0501a8c0@mobulis> References: <001301c61b23$8a3b5f70$0501a8c0@mobulis> Message-ID: <54d4a88f0601171818v2bec5472lec762dfac10b9a32@mail.gmail.com> Hi - I went on Bob's Amber collecting trip - the best thing about going on his trip is that he has a key to the gate so you can drive most of the way up the mountain. The collecting is kinda meager - the largest piece you can expect to find is about 1/4" chip. Collecting tools are given to those on the trip (butter knives). Mainly listen to bobs directions and you will find the most. Brian On 1/16/06, Iridius Espedon Von Luxx wrote: > > Does anyone have any experience collecting amber on Tiger Mountain and > know > where I can get either directions or GPS info to the spots where > collecting > is best. > > Also, anyone have experience at Hanson Creek collecting amethyst? > > Thanks for any help. > > Iridius > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > -- http://home.comcast.net/~silicawood/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Jan 17 18:56:23 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Jan 17 18:56:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question References: <20060118020835.26820.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601c61bda$c4ce4230$3699b2d1@TheBlackAdder> I'll go with the hogwash/overprotective Big Momma crowd on this. The "precautionary principle" at work no doubt, sponsored by your friendly CYA bureaucrat. Or, it's a jobs program for out of work fear mongers. Let's hear it for common sense and individual responsibility. It's true about the fine particles of silica, but the smoke and volatiles from the burning wood mixed with the silica particles wouldn't allow anyone to breathe much of it. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "tango juli" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:08 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question Another WAG(wild assed guess): Could this be a silica issue? Volcanic ashe is silica which supposedly is dangerous to inhale (silicosis), so maybe burning it introduces it in closed space? Or hogwash is good hypoth... :) tina Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:35:45 -0500 From: J Bryan Kramer Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The ash has already been cooked at high temps which would boil off any volatiles. Probably higher temps than are reached in any household fireplace. My off the cuff response: pure hogwash. BK On 1/17/06, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > OK chemists, any poison gasses likely to be released in potent quantities, > or is this typical overprotective Big Brother > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds mailing list Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 18 ****************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jr50wv at yahoo.com Tue Jan 17 19:50:50 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Tue Jan 17 19:50:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Curator of Geology / Chair of the Department of Earth Sciences job opening In-Reply-To: <001601c61b96$f8660e00$4897b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <20060118035050.43113.qmail@web34602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Erich, Now all I need is a PhD and I'm good to go! Thanks, it is interesting what they say they're looking for. I really do do grants, and lead and manage and all, but no PhD, or curatorial experience, darn it! Maybe you should send it to the list, where there are people actually qualilfied! What am I saying...I know that email address! JR Erich Kern wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kristi Diller" *************************************************************** Curator of Geology / Chair of the Department of Earth Sciences *************************************************************** From: Dina Venezky The Denver Museum of Nature & Science seeks a Curator of Geology / Chair of the Department of Earth Sciences. This energetic Earth Scientist will 1) lead an effort to create a large and innovative specimen- and technology-based exhibit that integrates large-scale Earth System processes with the regional geology of the Rocky Mountains; 2) lead the growing Department of Earth Sciences; 3) undertake grant-funded research focused in the Rocky Mountains; 4) curate and improve the geological collections; 5) build on the region's geological story to deliver and support innovative science education and exhibits; and 6) supervise students and adult volunteers. Applicants must have a Ph. D., strong interest in museum-based science, a record of grants and peer-reviewed publications, strong leadership skills and management experience. Send application including letter of interest, curriculum vitae, contact information for three references, via email to Kirk Johnson at geology.job@dmns.org. Application review will begin on Feb. 1. No calls. EOE. ============================================================== --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Jan 17 20:01:45 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Jan 17 20:01:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Curator of Geology / Chair of the Department of EarthSciences job opening References: <20060118035050.43113.qmail@web34602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00bf01c61be3$e60fd040$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> The PhD is virtually irrelevent if you read the whole job description. It basically proves you can do serious and productive research. However, with all the other duties, who would have time for research!!! I heard a PhD museum describe one major natural history museum as a university without the alumni. Hence, no finiancial support! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" To: "Erich Kern" ; Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:50 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Curator of Geology / Chair of the Department of EarthSciences job opening > Hi Erich, > > Now all I need is a PhD and I'm good to go! > > Thanks, it is interesting what they say they're looking for. I really do > do grants, and lead and manage and all, but no PhD, or curatorial > experience, darn it! > > Maybe you should send it to the list, where there are people actually > qualilfied! What am I saying...I know that email address! > > JR > > Erich Kern wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kristi Diller" > > > *************************************************************** > Curator of Geology / Chair of the Department of Earth Sciences > *************************************************************** > From: Dina Venezky > > The Denver Museum of Nature & Science seeks a Curator of Geology / > Chair of the Department of Earth Sciences. This energetic Earth > Scientist will 1) lead an effort to create a large and innovative > specimen- and technology-based exhibit that integrates large-scale > Earth System processes with the regional geology of the Rocky > Mountains; 2) lead the growing Department of Earth Sciences; 3) > undertake grant-funded research focused in the Rocky Mountains; 4) > curate and improve the geological collections; 5) build on the > region's geological story to deliver and support innovative science > education and exhibits; and 6) supervise students and adult volunteers. > > Applicants must have a Ph. D., strong interest in museum-based > science, a record of grants and peer-reviewed publications, strong > leadership skills and management experience. Send application > including letter of interest, curriculum vitae, contact information > for three references, via email to Kirk Johnson at > geology.job@dmns.org. Application review will begin on Feb. 1. No > calls. EOE. > > ============================================================== > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Photos > Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, > whatever. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jan 17 20:21:34 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jan 17 20:18:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What red minerals are associated with galena? Message-ID: <43CDC177.3955@Tomaszewski.net> At tonight's rock club meeting I picked up a small unlabeled specimen of glassy transparent/translucent red matrix with obvious galena crystals in it. The massive red matrix has hints it may be a cubic crystal form (but this may be due to having been broken off galena faces); broken faces appear conchoidal. Hardness 5.5 - 6. Streak is white to pale pink. Density of the whole specimen was 3.91, but this is obviously skewed by the inclusion of galena (1/8 to 1/4). Before I start destructive testing of this small (1x1x1/2 inch) attractive specimen I am wondering if this sounds familiar to anyone. Any suggestions of what I found? Kreigh From turnea55 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 17 20:59:20 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Tue Jan 17 20:59:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Curator of Geology / Chair of the Department ofEarthSciences job opening In-Reply-To: <00bf01c61be3$e60fd040$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Those jobs always look interesting and exciting, but a word of warning--a few years ago I applied to be the assistant curator of the American Museum of Natural History in New York City. I would be in charge of displays and managing the mineral collection as well as doing some independent research. I was qualified for this position as it required at least a Master's degree, prior curator experience (I managed a very large and important mineral collection/museum at the Missouri School of Mines), as well as SEM/EDS, XRD, etc. experience. Well, here's the catch. First of all, the museum, located in CENTRAL MANHATTAN, paid about $24,000/year--enough to maybe live on a park bench across the street in Central Park. Next, for those positions, including the Smithsonian, LA Nat. History Museum, etc., you are not allowed to have any collection on the side. I'm not talking about just selling on the side, but having any collection or collecting on mineral trips as it is considered a "conflict of interest." So, in order to get such a job you need to be very educated in geology/mineralogy, be willing to work for nothing, and have a great love of minerals but have no collection on the side. In fact, when I was being remotely considered for the job, I was told I'd have to "put my collection in storage" while working there. So good luck to anyone who wants the job. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA >From: "Alan Goldstein" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Curator of Geology / Chair of the Department >ofEarthSciences job opening >Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:01:45 -0500 > >The PhD is virtually irrelevent if you read the whole job description. It >basically proves you can do serious and productive research. However, with >all the other duties, who would have time for research!!! > >I heard a PhD museum describe one major natural history museum as a >university without the alumni. Hence, no finiancial support! > >Alan > >----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" >To: "Erich Kern" ; >Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:50 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Curator of Geology / Chair of the Department of >EarthSciences job opening > > >>Hi Erich, >> >>Now all I need is a PhD and I'm good to go! >> >>Thanks, it is interesting what they say they're looking for. I really do >>do grants, and lead and manage and all, but no PhD, or curatorial >>experience, darn it! >> >>Maybe you should send it to the list, where there are people actually >>qualilfied! What am I saying...I know that email address! >> >>JR >> >>Erich Kern wrote: >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Kristi Diller" >> >> >>*************************************************************** >>Curator of Geology / Chair of the Department of Earth Sciences >>*************************************************************** >>From: Dina Venezky >> >>The Denver Museum of Nature & Science seeks a Curator of Geology / >>Chair of the Department of Earth Sciences. This energetic Earth >>Scientist will 1) lead an effort to create a large and innovative >>specimen- and technology-based exhibit that integrates large-scale >>Earth System processes with the regional geology of the Rocky >>Mountains; 2) lead the growing Department of Earth Sciences; 3) >>undertake grant-funded research focused in the Rocky Mountains; 4) >>curate and improve the geological collections; 5) build on the >>region's geological story to deliver and support innovative science >>education and exhibits; and 6) supervise students and adult volunteers. >> >>Applicants must have a Ph. D., strong interest in museum-based >>science, a record of grants and peer-reviewed publications, strong >>leadership skills and management experience. Send application >>including letter of interest, curriculum vitae, contact information >>for three references, via email to Kirk Johnson at >>geology.job@dmns.org. Application review will begin on Feb. 1. No >>calls. EOE. >> >>============================================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >>Yahoo! Photos >>Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, >>whatever. >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Jan 17 21:07:15 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Jan 17 21:06:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Curator of Geology / Chair of the Department ofEarthSciences job opening In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43CDCD03.9020206@verizon.net> Andrew Turner wrote: > Those jobs always look interesting and exciting, but a word of > warning-- And maybe I've got the wrong museum in mind, but didn't something bad happen to the last person who held that position? Something about being let go without being told and finding out while on a trip? I'm not sure of all the details, but I don't know too many people in the profession these who can say "Denver Museum" without scowling. Or am I thinking of the wrong place? Dubious Don From turnea55 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 17 21:17:32 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Tue Jan 17 21:17:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What red minerals are associated with galena? In-Reply-To: <43CDC177.3955@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: There are a bunch of secondary red silver minerals that are associated with galena. However, your description sounds just like the famous cubic-like red rhodonite crystals on galena from Broken Hill, New South Wales, Australia. They are often transparent/translucent (I'm looking at my specimen of it right now) and look exactly like you describe--on a bed of galena crystals. Hold onto this piece if that is what it is, they are hard to get and have gone way up in price the past few years. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: [Rockhounds] What red minerals are associated with galena? >Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:21:34 -0500 > >At tonight's rock club meeting I picked up a small unlabeled specimen of >glassy transparent/translucent red matrix with obvious galena crystals >in it. > >The massive red matrix has hints it may be a cubic crystal form (but >this may be due to having been broken off galena faces); broken faces >appear conchoidal. Hardness 5.5 - 6. Streak is white to pale pink. >Density of the whole specimen was 3.91, but this is obviously skewed by >the inclusion of galena (1/8 to 1/4). > >Before I start destructive testing of this small (1x1x1/2 inch) >attractive specimen I am wondering if this sounds familiar to anyone. >Any suggestions of what I found? > >Kreigh > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jan 17 22:01:07 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jan 17 22:01:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What red minerals are associated with galena? Message-ID: <011820060601.24730.43CDD9A2000359110000609A216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> An "aha!" experience, reading Andrew Turner's reply. Of course, that's what your specimen must be, Kreigh, Broken Hill rhodonite. And, "way to go", Andrew, for coming up with that. I kept thinking about what red mineral Kreigh could be describing, and all I could think of was something with red hematite staining. But the Broken Hill rhodonite fits Kreigh's description exactly. Just goes to show, you don't always need a photograph of the specimen, to identify something! (If, of course, it is distinctive enough, as I think this is, just from its description.) Pete -------------- Original message from "Andrew Turner" : -------------- > There are a bunch of secondary red silver minerals that are associated with > galena. However, your description sounds just like the famous cubic-like red > rhodonite crystals on galena from Broken Hill, New South Wales, Australia. > They are often transparent/translucent (I'm looking at my specimen of it > right now) and look exactly like you describe--on a bed of galena crystals. > Hold onto this piece if that is what it is, they are hard to get and have > gone way up in price the past few years. > > Andrew Turner > Victorville, CA > > > >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >Subject: [Rockhounds] What red minerals are associated with galena? > >Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:21:34 -0500 > > > >At tonight's rock club meeting I picked up a small unlabeled specimen of > >glassy transparent/translucent red matrix with obvious galena crystals > >in it. > > > >The massive red matrix has hints it may be a cubic crystal form (but > >this may be due to having been broken off galena faces); broken faces > >appear conchoidal. Hardness 5.5 - 6. Streak is white to pale pink. > >Density of the whole specimen was 3.91, but this is obviously skewed by > >the inclusion of galena (1/8 to 1/4). > > > >Before I start destructive testing of this small (1x1x1/2 inch) > >attractive specimen I am wondering if this sounds familiar to anyone. > >Any suggestions of what I found? > > > >Kreigh > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Jan 17 22:35:07 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Tue Jan 17 22:33:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question References: <20060118020835.26820.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> <000601c61bda$c4ce4230$3699b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <001201c61bf9$5323ce60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Wood smoke is not very benign and contains carbon monoxide and particulates. I can understand someone providing a warning about breathing a mixture of wood smoke and volcanic ash. Violations of the EPA eight hour standard for carbon monoxide have been found in places of high altitude, substantive inversions and wood smoke. Some of the worst air pollution episodes, killing thousands of people, occurred in London during the 1800s from heavy coal smoke during inversions. I am sure that our ancient ancestors helped shortened their life spans by continually breathing in smoke from their fires. However, I agree that it is unlikely that someone would subject themselves to a mixture of ash and wood smoke for any extended length of time. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erich Kern" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question > > I'll go with the hogwash/overprotective Big Momma crowd on this. The "precautionary > principle" at work no doubt, sponsored by your friendly CYA bureaucrat. Or, it's a > jobs program for out of work fear mongers. > > Let's hear it for common sense and individual responsibility. > > It's true about the fine particles of silica, but the smoke and volatiles from the > burning wood mixed with the silica particles wouldn't allow anyone to breathe much > of it. > > Erich > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tango juli" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:08 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question > > > Another WAG(wild assed guess): Could this be a silica issue? Volcanic ashe is silica > which supposedly is dangerous to inhale (silicosis), so maybe burning it introduces > it in closed space? > Or hogwash is good hypoth... > :) tina > > Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:35:45 -0500 > From: J Bryan Kramer > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > The ash has already been cooked at high temps which would boil off any > volatiles. Probably higher temps than are reached in any household > fireplace. My off the cuff response: pure hogwash. > > BK > > On 1/17/06, Glenn Wimpee > wrote: > > > > OK chemists, any poison gasses likely to be released in potent quantities, > > or is this typical overprotective Big Brother > > > > > > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds mailing list > Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 18 > ****************************************** > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From gene at fossilnut.com Wed Jan 18 04:04:21 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Wed Jan 18 04:04:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question References: <20060118020835.26820.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com><000601c61bda$c4ce4230$3699b2d1@TheBlackAdder> <001201c61bf9$5323ce60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <011801c61c27$51074110$6400a8c0@hppav> In general I agree that the issue is probably hogwash, however use of heavily contaminated wood in a poorly controlled fire, like a campfire, would be a bad idea. While people don't eagerly breathe campfire fumes, I have never come away from a time around a campfire where my clothes didn't pick up a lot of campfire odor, proof that I was exposed to a lot more than was probably good for me on a regular basis. Controlled fires in your home fireplace may present one more problem. The typical product of fires is ash, which is usually quite alkaline with significant amounts of metal carbonates and oxides (calcium, sodium, potassium, etc.). Combine these in a flame with super fine silica and you make a molten, particulate glass which will line the insides of your flue and solidify. I suspect a wood flame, with the proper amount of oxygen would do this nicely. But I revert here to the hogwash arguement because I cannot imagine the wood having enough silica on it to cause a significant problem. Same holds true for reentrainment of the ash. I would not like to breathe the ash after it has had a chance to pick up the carcinogenic byproducts of a wood fire, particularly one in a wood burning stove where oxygen is limited. This would only present even a minor problem to folks outside the home, when dispersion was poor, like on a temperature inversion day. Then again inversions mostly occur in hot weather. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:35 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question > Wood smoke is not very benign and contains carbon monoxide and > particulates. > I can understand someone providing a warning about breathing a mixture of > wood smoke and volcanic ash. Violations of the EPA eight hour standard > for > carbon monoxide have been found in places of high altitude, substantive > inversions and wood smoke. Some of the worst air pollution episodes, > killing > thousands of people, occurred in London during the 1800s from heavy coal > smoke during inversions. I am sure that our ancient ancestors helped > shortened their life spans by continually breathing in smoke from their > fires. However, I agree that it is unlikely that someone would subject > themselves to a mixture of ash and wood smoke for any extended length of > time. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Erich Kern" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question > > >> >> I'll go with the hogwash/overprotective Big Momma crowd on this. The > "precautionary >> principle" at work no doubt, sponsored by your friendly CYA bureaucrat. > Or, it's a >> jobs program for out of work fear mongers. >> >> Let's hear it for common sense and individual responsibility. >> >> It's true about the fine particles of silica, but the smoke and volatiles > from the >> burning wood mixed with the silica particles wouldn't allow anyone to > breathe much >> of it. >> >> Erich >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "tango juli" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:08 PM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question >> >> >> Another WAG(wild assed guess): Could this be a silica issue? Volcanic >> ashe > is silica >> which supposedly is dangerous to inhale (silicosis), so maybe burning it > introduces >> it in closed space? >> Or hogwash is good hypoth... >> :) tina >> >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:35:45 -0500 >> From: J Bryan Kramer >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> Message-ID: >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> The ash has already been cooked at high temps which would boil off any >> volatiles. Probably higher temps than are reached in any household >> fireplace. My off the cuff response: pure hogwash. >> >> BK >> >> On 1/17/06, Glenn Wimpee >> wrote: >> > >> > OK chemists, any poison gasses likely to be released in potent > quantities, >> > or is this typical overprotective Big Brother >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Glenn >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds mailing list >> Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 18 >> ****************************************** >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Wed Jan 18 06:22:51 2006 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Wed Jan 18 06:23:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline Message-ID: <20060118142251.JRJX11466.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Dear rockhounds: I've been collecting at a NC mine dump , which is a pegmatite body termed alaskite and tonalite. Schorl is one of the most abundant species found, typically in black sprays. I have found "other" tourmaline crystals colored green, which I called "green schorl", until some of the academic investigators informed me that this had been ID'ed as true green elbaite by X ray diffraction analysis from two independent labs. Cool! My quandry is this: the species form not only in the classical tourmaline long, striated habits, but also as acicular, pelucic and felted masses. Under magnification (10x to 200x), they are observable as individual crystals, at times, appearing like dark green felt, punctuated with black streaks. Most of this is opaque, but I have seen very clear green, brown and grey crystals as well. I've searched the literature, which generally refers to the types of occurrence, but has not given me a definite answer. So, rockhounds! Has anyone, from personal experience, seen this type of habit or color or combination in the tourmaline family? I would be very pleased to hear from you. Sincerely, Edward J. Wagner From info at wisdomofstones.com Wed Jan 18 06:55:08 2006 From: info at wisdomofstones.com (Wisdom of Stones) Date: Wed Jan 18 06:54:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] first suiseki, now agates In-Reply-To: <20060117193221.1656.qmail@web34605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks to all who responded to my question about suiseki. I love picture stones and rocks, and anything that stimulates our creative senses. Part of the work I do allows me to help people interpret how images in art might hold meaning for them in life. Suiseki is one of the forms of natural art I'm starting to use, so this discussion thread has been very helpful. A second form of interpretative art I'm wanting to use are agates and wonder where in the midwest I can go agate hunting and collecting. Learning about the geology and mineralogy of rocks and minerals is very new to me as I've always explored it as a form of all sensory interpretative art so I'm appreciating the cross-over and integration I'm making with the left-brain side of me. It's also opened up and expanded the context of the work I do which makes it all even more exciting so thank you for this group and the support and generosity of information you all share. best, jennifer -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J. R. Hodel Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:32 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] suiseki - Japanese for pretty rocks? Hi: Several years ago I attended a meeting at EPA Region III in Philidelphia. The afternoon it ended, by boss and I just went to the airport early, it's a pretty bog one, and planned to stroll the length of the place. About half way from the right / first terminal (A) to our terminal, the last terminal (F I think...where the tiny communter planes with propellors fly) there was a large art exhibit. At the time, the art was Suiseki rocks. I guess the guy was a famous collector, but the rocks were totally wonderful. So now I try to see or look in that special artistic way when looking at rocks in a creekbed or lying on the hillside. Easier said than done, for sure. My rockhound buddy Dan gave me a big fossiliferous rock that looks (if you use your imagination a little!) like an elephant's head, and we've placed several other marine fossils around that big rock in the round room downstairs, sort of hillbilly suiseki, maybe? Running into a really nice art show on the wall of the Philly airport was pretty nice. But the kicker was, we had to leave security to get from concourse D to our commuter concourse, where there was, of course, another long line waiting to get through security... Sometimes ya' just can't win! JR in WV --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 18 08:04:07 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Jan 18 08:04:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline References: <20060118142251.JRJX11466.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <008101c61c48$d00c06f0$bf894c0c@LarryRush> The Strickland Quarry, in Portland, Ct, now closed, has produced both acicular and felted black tourmaline. The complete crystals were easily seen with a 10X lens. The acicular needles were usually associated with clear to milky quartz crystals. The "felted" variety, which may have originally formed in a vug-like space in feldspar, was usually compacted and crushed when found on the dumps, and not worth saving. The many pegmatites in Connecticut have given up tourmaline, usually schorl or green elbaite, rarely rubellite, in a variety of habits, sometimes encased between sheets of muscovite, sometimes as sprays frozen within feldspar, and rarely as single, well formed crystals extending into vugs. The best known of the tourmaline pegs, in Haddam, owned and operated by the Tiffany Company, produced many fine colored gem elbaites for years from vugs. Unfortunately, this too, is closed and unavailable for collecting now. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:22 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline > Dear rockhounds: > I've been collecting at a NC mine dump , which is a pegmatite body termed > alaskite and tonalite. Schorl is one of the most abundant species found, > typically in black sprays. I have found "other" tourmaline crystals > colored green, which I called "green schorl", until some of the academic > investigators informed me that this had been ID'ed as true green elbaite > by X ray diffraction analysis from two independent labs. Cool! My quandry > is this: the species form not only in the classical tourmaline long, > striated habits, but also as acicular, pelucic and felted masses. Under > magnification (10x to 200x), they are observable as individual crystals, > at times, appearing like dark green felt, punctuated with black streaks. > Most of this is opaque, but I have seen very clear green, brown and grey > crystals as well. > I've searched the literature, which generally refers to the types of > occurrence, but has not given me a definite answer. So, rockhounds! Has > anyone, from personal experience, seen this type of habit or color or > combination in the tourmaline family? I would be very pleased to hear from > you. > Sincerely, Edward J. Wagner > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Jan 18 08:38:19 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Jan 18 08:36:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question References: <20060118020835.26820.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com><000601c61bda$c4ce4230$3699b2d1@TheBlackAdder><001201c61bf9$5323ce60$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <011801c61c27$51074110$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: <000701c61c4d$97bf6440$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Most temperature inversions occur in the winter when the sun is low in the sky and there is very little wind. The following is from the a United States Weather Bureau website: "What are temperature inversions? On most days, the temperature of air in the atmosphere is cooler the higher up in altitude you go. This is because most of the suns energy is converted to sensible heat at the ground, which in turn warms the air at the surface. The warm air rises in the atmosphere, where it expands and cools. Sometimes, however, the temperature of air actually increases with height. The situation of having warm air on top of cooler air is referred to as a temperature inversion, because the temperature profile of the atmosphere is "inverted" from its usual state. There are two types of temperature inversions: surface inversions that occur near the Earth's surface, and aloft inversions that occur above the ground. Surface inversions are the most important in the study of air quality. Temperature Inversions How do surface temperature inversions form? The most common manner in which surface inversions form is through the cooling of the air near the ground at night. Once the sun goes down, the ground loses heat very quickly, and this cools the air that is in contact with the ground. However, since air is a very poor conductor of heat, the air just above the surface remains warm. Conditions that favor the development of a strong surface inversion are calm winds, clear skies, and long nights. Calm winds prevent warmer air above the surface from mixing down to the ground, and clear skies increase the rate of cooling at the Earth's surface. Long nights allow for the cooling of the ground to continue over a longer period of time, resulting in a greater temperature decrease at the surface. Since the nights in the wintertime are much longer than nights during the summertime, surface inversions are stronger and more common during the winter months. A strong inversion implies a substantial temperature difference exists between the cool surface air and the warmer air aloft. During the daylight hours, surface inversions normally weaken and disappear as the sun warms the Earth's surface. However, under certain meteorological conditions, such as strong high pressure over the area, these inversions can persist as long as several days. In addition, local topographical features can enhance the formation of inversions, especially in valley locations. How do inversions impact air quality? Surface temperature inversions play a major role in air quality, especially during the winter when these inversions are the strongest. The warm air above cooler air acts like a lid, suppressing vertical mixing and trapping the cooler air at the surface. As pollutants from vehicles, fireplaces, and industry are emitted into the air, the inversion traps these pollutants near the ground, leading to poor air quality. The strength and duration of the inversion will control AQI levels near the ground. A strong inversion will confine pollutants to a shallow vertical layer, leading to high AQI levels, while a weak inversion will lead to lower AQI levels. A large contributor to poor air quality during the winter is residential wood burning. Wood smoke contains much higher amounts of particulate pollution than smoke from oil- or gas-fired furnaces. In some areas of the country, local governments issue burn bans to curtail the use of woodstoves and fireplaces under certain weather and pollution conditions during the winter" I was commenting about volcanic ash already being in the atmosphere and the use of wood for heating during inversions. I doubt there is much of a problem with ash being on firewood being burnt. Winter temperature inversions are prevalent in mountain valleys. ----- Original Message ----- From: "EUGENE HARTSTEIN" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:04 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question > In general I agree that the issue is probably hogwash, however use of > heavily contaminated wood in a poorly controlled fire, like a campfire, > would be a bad idea. While people don't eagerly breathe campfire fumes, I > have never come away from a time around a campfire where my clothes didn't > pick up a lot of campfire odor, proof that I was exposed to a lot more than > was probably good for me on a regular basis. > > Controlled fires in your home fireplace may present one more problem. The > typical product of fires is ash, which is usually quite alkaline with > significant amounts of metal carbonates and oxides (calcium, sodium, > potassium, etc.). Combine these in a flame with super fine silica and you > make a molten, particulate glass which will line the insides of your flue > and solidify. I suspect a wood flame, with the proper amount of oxygen would > do this nicely. > But I revert here to the hogwash arguement because I cannot imagine the wood > having enough silica on it to cause a significant problem. > > Same holds true for reentrainment of the ash. I would not like to breathe > the ash after it has had a chance to pick up the carcinogenic byproducts of > a wood fire, particularly one in a wood burning stove where oxygen is > limited. This would only present even a minor problem to folks outside the > home, when dispersion was poor, like on a temperature inversion day. Then > again inversions mostly occur in hot weather. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jaybates" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:35 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question > > > > Wood smoke is not very benign and contains carbon monoxide and > > particulates. > > I can understand someone providing a warning about breathing a mixture of > > wood smoke and volcanic ash. Violations of the EPA eight hour standard > > for > > carbon monoxide have been found in places of high altitude, substantive > > inversions and wood smoke. Some of the worst air pollution episodes, > > killing > > thousands of people, occurred in London during the 1800s from heavy coal > > smoke during inversions. I am sure that our ancient ancestors helped > > shortened their life spans by continually breathing in smoke from their > > fires. However, I agree that it is unlikely that someone would subject > > themselves to a mixture of ash and wood smoke for any extended length of > > time. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Erich Kern" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:56 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question > > > > > >> > >> I'll go with the hogwash/overprotective Big Momma crowd on this. The > > "precautionary > >> principle" at work no doubt, sponsored by your friendly CYA bureaucrat. > > Or, it's a > >> jobs program for out of work fear mongers. > >> > >> Let's hear it for common sense and individual responsibility. > >> > >> It's true about the fine particles of silica, but the smoke and volatiles > > from the > >> burning wood mixed with the silica particles wouldn't allow anyone to > > breathe much > >> of it. > >> > >> Erich > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "tango juli" > >> To: > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:08 PM > >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question > >> > >> > >> Another WAG(wild assed guess): Could this be a silica issue? Volcanic > >> ashe > > is silica > >> which supposedly is dangerous to inhale (silicosis), so maybe burning it > > introduces > >> it in closed space? > >> Or hogwash is good hypoth... > >> :) tina > >> > >> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:35:45 -0500 > >> From: J Bryan Kramer > >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question > >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >> collectors" > >> Message-ID: > >> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >> > >> The ash has already been cooked at high temps which would boil off any > >> volatiles. Probably higher temps than are reached in any household > >> fireplace. My off the cuff response: pure hogwash. > >> > >> BK > >> > >> On 1/17/06, Glenn Wimpee > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > OK chemists, any poison gasses likely to be released in potent > > quantities, > >> > or is this typical overprotective Big Brother > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Glenn > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >> --- > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds mailing list > >> Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > >> > >> End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 18 > >> ****************************************** > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >> --- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From lanny at lrream.com Wed Jan 18 09:33:58 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Jan 18 09:34:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question In-Reply-To: <002501c61b98$cd2bb350$4897b2d1@TheBlackAdder> References: <002501c61b98$cd2bb350$4897b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <73972c3853e08159aadc21ff67dda05d@lrream.com> The "let's-yell-the-sky-is-falling-before-we-know-anything" crowd (= EPA) did the same type of thing with the big 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens. All kinds of dire predictions were made as to what the nasty ash was going to do with its obvious noxious, toxic and other equally poisonous contents. Then they analyzed the ash over the next few weeks and discovered that, surprisingly, it was rock dust and nothing else. The only dangers were those normally attributed to dust off a gravel road, rock quarry, etc. Most likely it's the same with this warning. Someone without a complete handle on what the ash is dreamed up some problem. As usual, the news media jumped on it and spread the word of he horrible pending dangers. If anyone is going to have problems burning wood with a little volcanic ash on it, most likely they already have problems from burning "clean" wood. Regards, Lanny On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Erich Kern wrote: > > An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable origin of this > directive? It doesn't > make any sense to me either. > > Erich Kern > > Fw. message: > > ****************** > Ash and firewood > ****************** > From: Chris Nye > > An ash advisory that was issued immediately after a small eruption of > Augustine Volcano warned residents not to burn firewood in stoves or > fireplaces if the wood had volcanic ash on it. The warning was picked > up > and repeated by the national and international press. The Alaska > Volcano > Observatory has had a surprising amount of email asking for the basis > of > the warning. No one at AVO knows the basis, nor does anyone from the > agency that issued the warning. > > Questions for the listserv are: (1) Is there a rational basis for this > warning? and (2) Where in the literature of eruption preparedness did > this > come from? > > I've checked with a local woodstove retailer, a woodstove > manufacturer, and > a testing lab that concerns itself with chemical and environmental > issues > in wood-fueled heating. They were unaware of specific issues with > burning > ash-covered wood. Guesses about potential issues involve > re-entrainment of > ash in flues, sulfur-based corrosion issues, chemical or mechanical > damage > to catalytic converters (not an issue in fireplaces or many > woodstoves), > and vaguely conceived toxicity issues involving Cl or transition > metals. > > The surprisingly robust life of this issue makes us curious. Replies > to > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu will be appreciated. > > =========================================== > Christopher Nye > Alaska Volcano Observatory > Alaska Division of Geological and Geophysical Surveys > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu, ph: (907) 474-7430 > snailmail: Chris Nye, AVO/DGGS, UAF Geophysical Institute, 903 Koyukuk > Drive, Fairbanks, AK 99775-7320 > > ============================================================== > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Jan 18 09:44:16 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Jan 18 09:44:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline Message-ID: <011820061744.23273.43CE7E6F0009AA4B00005AE9215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Edward, Acicular tourmaline is not at all uncommon--well, less common than larger crystallized tourmaline, but still often seen, here and there. Stalactitic masses of velvety-black, acicular tourmaline (schorl) are especially known from Santa Cruz, Sonora, Mexico. Acicular tourmaline inclusions in quartz are not uncommon, either ("tourmalinated quartz"). Pete -------------- Original message from : -------------- > Dear rockhounds: > I've been collecting at a NC mine dump , which is a pegmatite body termed > alaskite and tonalite. Schorl is one of the most abundant species found, > typically in black sprays. I have found "other" tourmaline crystals colored > green, which I called "green schorl", until some of the academic investigators > informed me that this had been ID'ed as true green elbaite by X ray diffraction > analysis from two independent labs. Cool! My quandry is this: the species form > not only in the classical tourmaline long, striated habits, but also as > acicular, pelucic and felted masses. Under magnification (10x to 200x), they are > observable as individual crystals, at times, appearing like dark green felt, > punctuated with black streaks. Most of this is opaque, but I have seen very > clear green, brown and grey crystals as well. > I've searched the literature, which generally refers to the types of occurrence, > but has not given me a definite answer. So, rockhounds! Has anyone, from > personal experience, seen this type of habit or color or combination in the > tourmaline family? I would be very pleased to hear from you. > Sincerely, Edward J. Wagner > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jan 18 09:51:27 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 18 09:51:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is it? In-Reply-To: <011720062211.518.43CD6B74000559FD00000206215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: I'll admit it was a bit of a shocker in the 70's ;-))) But it was artistically responsible nudity and very much the talk of the day. ...and honestly, it was like looking at some naked girls with vaseline in your eyes. David Hamilton clearly has no idea of what "in focus" means ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net Verzonden: dinsdag 17 januari 2006 23:11 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] What is it? After surfing a bit, Axel, now I know about flou artistique, though what I found was all in French on Google, and I had to hit the "translate" button. It sounds like a good excuse, for every time someone's mineral pictures come out fuzzy! And as to Bilitis, the movie, well, perhaps I could say that "rockhounds" don't look at those sort of movies, or, (it was from the 1970s) maybe I was living in a city then that did not have the sort of artsy/risque theatres that showed them! : ) Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Wed Jan 18 10:02:23 2006 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Wed Jan 18 10:07:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline References: <20060118142251.JRJX11466.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <008b01c61c5a$13d30a30$473c27c4@privatehome> Hi Edward, We in South Africa have found BLACK acicular tourmaline on the dumps of the Rooiberg Tin Mines, some 50 km NW of Warmbaths (which is about 100 km = about 62 miles) north of our capital city, Pretoria, where I live. Have never seen or heard of GREEN acicular tourmaline but there is no reason why this should not occur in nature.The black sprays are about 3-4 mm in diameter - just had a look at one today, after spending the last three days (8 hours per day and more) trying to clear out and restore some order in my "rock room". Two days ago, found some specimens wrapped in newspaper dated 1966! Regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 4:22 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline > Dear rockhounds: > I've been collecting at a NC mine dump , which is a pegmatite body termed > alaskite and tonalite. Schorl is one of the most abundant species found, > typically in black sprays. I have found "other" tourmaline crystals > colored green, which I called "green schorl", until some of the academic > investigators informed me that this had been ID'ed as true green elbaite > by X ray diffraction analysis from two independent labs. Cool! My quandry > is this: the species form not only in the classical tourmaline long, > striated habits, but also as acicular, pelucic and felted masses. Under > magnification (10x to 200x), they are observable as individual crystals, > at times, appearing like dark green felt, punctuated with black streaks. > Most of this is opaque, but I have seen very clear green, brown and grey > crystals as well. > I've searched the literature, which generally refers to the types of > occurrence, but has not given me a definite answer. So, rockhounds! Has > anyone, from personal experience, seen this type of habit or color or > combination in the tourmaline family? I would be very pleased to hear from > you. > Sincerely, Edward J. Wagner > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From fossilnut at verizon.net Tue Jan 17 18:32:51 2006 From: fossilnut at verizon.net (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Wed Jan 18 10:30:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question References: Message-ID: <005501c61bd7$7b215b20$6400a8c0@hppav> One would imagine that since the material had already been through a volcano, anything that could be vloatilized by a fire would already be gone. However, breathing sharp shards of ash reentrained in air by a fire would probably not be too good for you and these shards could possibly carry pyrolized wood components (likely to be carcinogenic) into your lungs. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:29 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question > OK chemists, any poison gasses likely to be released in potent quantities, > or is this typical overprotective Big Brother > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > From: "John Siebel" <john@pandemoniumgraphics.com> > I don't know of any issues with burning ash-covered wood, but it will dull > a > chainsaw blade right quick! > John > > >> > Dirt and sand also work wonders on saw chains. GRW > >> > >  An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable origin of this > directive? > It doesn't  make any sense to me either. > > Erich Kern > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > MSN Premium brings together everything you need on the Internet in 1 > place, including PC security! > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Jan 18 11:54:20 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Jan 18 11:54:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline References: <20060118142251.JRJX11466.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <004f01c61c68$f8f77020$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> It's pretty widespread. Last summer, I collected acicular elbaite at the Elizabeth R mine and acicular indicolite at the Blue Lady mine in San Diego Co., California. Luckily, not everything I found was acicular! The elbaite was green, brown and purple. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:22 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline > Dear rockhounds: > I've been collecting at a NC mine dump , which is a pegmatite body termed > alaskite and tonalite. Schorl is one of the most abundant species found, > typically in black sprays. I have found "other" tourmaline crystals > colored green, which I called "green schorl", until some of the academic > investigators informed me that this had been ID'ed as true green elbaite > by X ray diffraction analysis from two independent labs. Cool! My quandry > is this: the species form not only in the classical tourmaline long, > striated habits, but also as acicular, pelucic and felted masses. Under > magnification (10x to 200x), they are observable as individual crystals, > at times, appearing like dark green felt, punctuated with black streaks. > Most of this is opaque, but I have seen very clear green, brown and grey > crystals as well. > I've searched the literature, which generally refers to the types of > occurrence, but has not given me a definite answer. So, rockhounds! Has > anyone, from personal experience, seen this type of habit or color or > combination in the tourmaline family? I would be very pleased to hear from > you. > Sincerely, Edward J. Wagner > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Wed Jan 18 12:07:46 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Wed Jan 18 12:03:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Contact at Tucson, alabaster, seminar possibility In-Reply-To: <73972c3853e08159aadc21ff67dda05d@lrream.com> Message-ID: <17B8D868-885E-11DA-8127-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> > Hi everyone, > > Here's a quick in-advance-of-Tucson announcement. I've mentioned, off > and on, large alabaster bowls, the carving of which constitutes my > most recent lapidary pursuit. Four of said bowls are en route to > Tucson, and UPS willing, they may arrive intact. Tom Orme of Alpha > Supply has kindly given me a few feet of display space to show them - > that's at the Alpha Supply booth in the Tucson Electric Park Show. My > Bay of Fundy agates will be (or at least should be) there also, > hand-carried back from the Munich Show. > > Also, I've been discussing with Carol Bova of the Eclectic Lapidary > the possibility of giving one or more one day or weekend lapidary > seminars at her workshop in Mathews Virginia. That's about an hour > from Norfolk. We're looking at early to mid March. A one or two person > over night guesting may be possible. Some of the possible topics > include: > > - Building the "Perpetual Prototype" home built all diamond cabbing > machine > - Cutting a cab that's fit to sell (refinements, little details of cab > cutting) > - Introduction to cutting opal. "Do NOT be Afraid..." etc. > - Opal Inlay - how to do, how to repair. > - A Cornucopia of Concavities (how to get into, shape, polish, > concavities in a gemstone) > - Making your own diamond tools - for concavities as above, and other > uses > - How to make a core drill > - Practical projects - intarsia and inlay (a chess board or an an > inlaid table) > - Jewelry making for beginners - first steps in silversmithing > > Offering any of these depends on the number of persons interested; if > you think you might be, do drop by the Alpha Supply booth in the > Electric Park and let's chat about the possibility. And if you're a > gallery owner, do come look at the bowls. They're in quest of a good > venue. > > Cheers & hope to see you > Hans Durstling - getting Tucson adrenalin - > in Moncton, Canada. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From dnorris at frii.com Wed Jan 18 12:09:27 2006 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Wed Jan 18 12:09:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson Show References: <20060118142251.JRJX11466.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> <004f01c61c68$f8f77020$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <43CEA077.6000200@frii.com> Is there anyone going to Tucson and have a booth at any of the shows? Don Norris From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jan 18 12:12:38 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jan 18 12:12:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline In-Reply-To: <004f01c61c68$f8f77020$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Tourmaline is very strongly dichroic, so strong that it is obvious even to the naked eye. When the viewing angle approaches the C-axis, green tourmaline (verdelite or elbaite) may appear almost black as a result of this. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Alan Goldstein Verzonden: woensdag 18 januari 2006 20:54 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline It's pretty widespread. Last summer, I collected acicular elbaite at the Elizabeth R mine and acicular indicolite at the Blue Lady mine in San Diego Co., California. Luckily, not everything I found was acicular! The elbaite was green, brown and purple. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:22 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline > Dear rockhounds: > I've been collecting at a NC mine dump , which is a pegmatite body termed > alaskite and tonalite. Schorl is one of the most abundant species found, > typically in black sprays. I have found "other" tourmaline crystals > colored green, which I called "green schorl", until some of the academic > investigators informed me that this had been ID'ed as true green elbaite > by X ray diffraction analysis from two independent labs. Cool! My quandry > is this: the species form not only in the classical tourmaline long, > striated habits, but also as acicular, pelucic and felted masses. Under > magnification (10x to 200x), they are observable as individual crystals, > at times, appearing like dark green felt, punctuated with black streaks. > Most of this is opaque, but I have seen very clear green, brown and grey > crystals as well. > I've searched the literature, which generally refers to the types of > occurrence, but has not given me a definite answer. So, rockhounds! Has > anyone, from personal experience, seen this type of habit or color or > combination in the tourmaline family? I would be very pleased to hear from > you. > Sincerely, Edward J. Wagner > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mmessenger at nwifc.org Wed Jan 18 13:49:18 2006 From: mmessenger at nwifc.org (Mike Messenger) Date: Wed Jan 18 13:49:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tiger Mountain Amber? Message-ID: <52396294DCB35049990BF5746E719EC503FE46@ARMORHEAD.nwifc.wa.gov> Iridius - I have an old map and directions to the Tiger Mountain site from one of Bob Jackson's old books but I do not know how good they are since I have not been to the site myself. The Hasnon creek site does still produce some nice crystals but they are mostly clear quarts. If you want some amethyst I would suggest you try Walker Valley. There is a Washington State Mineral Council (WSMC) field trip there this Saturday the 21st. They are meeting at 9:00 am at the Big Lake store. Mike Messenger -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Iridius Espedon Von Luxx Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:05 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Tiger Mountain Amber? Does anyone have any experience collecting amber on Tiger Mountain and know where I can get either directions or GPS info to the spots where collecting is best. Also, anyone have experience at Hanson Creek collecting amethyst? Thanks for any help. Iridius _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jan 18 15:58:07 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 18 15:51:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] What red minerals are associated with galena? References: Message-ID: <43CED494.60A4@Tomaszewski.net> Andrew, After looking at a few Broken Hill specimens found with Google I have no doubts that you not only identified the specimen, but gave me the location as well. And you didn't even need a picture. I'm impressed. Thank you! Kreigh Andrew Turner wrote: > > There are a bunch of secondary red silver minerals that are associated with > galena. However, your description sounds just like the famous cubic-like red > rhodonite crystals on galena from Broken Hill, New South Wales, Australia. > They are often transparent/translucent (I'm looking at my specimen of it > right now) and look exactly like you describe--on a bed of galena crystals. > Hold onto this piece if that is what it is, they are hard to get and have > gone way up in price the past few years. > > Andrew Turner > Victorville, CA > > >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >Subject: [Rockhounds] What red minerals are associated with galena? > >Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:21:34 -0500 > > > >At tonight's rock club meeting I picked up a small unlabeled specimen of > >glassy transparent/translucent red matrix with obvious galena crystals > >in it. > > > >The massive red matrix has hints it may be a cubic crystal form (but > >this may be due to having been broken off galena faces); broken faces > >appear conchoidal. Hardness 5.5 - 6. Streak is white to pale pink. > >Density of the whole specimen was 3.91, but this is obviously skewed by > >the inclusion of galena (1/8 to 1/4). > > > >Before I start destructive testing of this small (1x1x1/2 inch) > >attractive specimen I am wondering if this sounds familiar to anyone. > >Any suggestions of what I found? > > > >Kreigh From bova at mindspring.com Wed Jan 18 16:11:18 2006 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Wed Jan 18 16:09:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question In-Reply-To: <73972c3853e08159aadc21ff67dda05d@lrream.com> Message-ID: <1CF379A6-8880-11DA-BA16-000A95773806@mindspring.com> After wandering around the net trying to get info on this question, I got to the National Weather Service Forecast Office in Anchorage, Alaska, Augustine coordination page. http://pafc.arh.noaa.gov/augustine.php I used the contact address on that page, and asked about the reason for the advisory on not burning firewood with volcanic ash, and got an almost immediate response: In part, this is to avoid re-suspension of the ash in the smoke from the burning wood. As that does not seem to be a serious consequence, we have since removed it. It's been an interesting thread! Carol Carol J. Bova The Eclectic Lapidary www.eclecticlapidary.com PS The only reference I could find online to the ash and firewood statement was from: WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION ________________ COMMISSION FOR BASIC SYSTEM OPAG ON DPFS MEETING OF EMERGENCY RESPONSE ACTIVITIES COORDINATION GROUP WASHINGTON, 10-14 SEPTEMBER 2001CBS ERA/COG/Doc 9 _______ Agenda Item 9 USING ATMOSPHERIC TRANSPORT MODELLING FOR THE PREDICTION OF VOLCANIC ASH FOR PUBLIC SAFETY > On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Erich Kern wrote: >> >> An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable origin of this >> directive? It doesn't >> make any sense to me either. >> >> Erich Kern >> >> Fw. message: >> >> ****************** >> Ash and firewood >> ****************** >> From: Chris Nye >> >> An ash advisory that was issued immediately after a small eruption of >> Augustine Volcano warned residents not to burn firewood in stoves or >> fireplaces if the wood had volcanic ash on it. The warning was >> picked up >> and repeated by the national and international press. The Alaska >> Volcano >> Observatory has had a surprising amount of email asking for the basis >> of >> the warning. No one at AVO knows the basis, nor does anyone from the >> agency that issued the warning. >> >> Questions for the listserv are: (1) Is there a rational basis for this >> warning? and (2) Where in the literature of eruption preparedness did >> this >> come from? >> >> I've checked with a local woodstove retailer, a woodstove >> manufacturer, and >> a testing lab that concerns itself with chemical and environmental >> issues >> in wood-fueled heating. They were unaware of specific issues with >> burning >> ash-covered wood. Guesses about potential issues involve >> re-entrainment of >> ash in flues, sulfur-based corrosion issues, chemical or mechanical >> damage >> to catalytic converters (not an issue in fireplaces or many >> woodstoves), >> and vaguely conceived toxicity issues involving Cl or transition >> metals. >> >> The surprisingly robust life of this issue makes us curious. Replies >> to >> cnye@giseis.alaska.edu will be appreciated. >> >> =========================================== >> Christopher Nye >> Alaska Volcano Observatory >> Alaska Division of Geological and Geophysical Surveys >> cnye@giseis.alaska.edu, ph: (907) 474-7430 >> snailmail: Chris Nye, AVO/DGGS, UAF Geophysical Institute, 903 >> Koyukuk >> Drive, Fairbanks, AK 99775-7320 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jan 18 16:19:40 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jan 18 16:13:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] first suiseki, now agates References: Message-ID: <43CED99E.6315@Tomaszewski.net> Jennifer, Lake Superior is famous for its agates. Kreigh Wisdom of Stones wrote: > A second form of interpretative art I'm wanting to use are agates and wonder > where in the midwest I can go agate hunting and collecting. Learning about > the geology and mineralogy of rocks and minerals is very new to me as I've > always explored it as a form of all sensory interpretative art so I'm > appreciating the cross-over and integration I'm making with the left-brain > side of me. It's also opened up and expanded the context of the work I do > which makes it all even more exciting so thank you for this group and the > support and generosity of information you all share. > > best, > jennifer From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Jan 18 19:14:32 2006 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Jan 18 18:57:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Booth at Tucson References: <200601190203.k0J23uEV009796@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <01bd01c61ca6$788e2c10$6401a8c0@rock3> Don, we will be at the Inn Suites motel and our "booth" occupies one of the ballrooms, the one called the Gold Room and is the first one on the left after you walk through the lobby and out the doors on the far side. Rock ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 18:03 Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 20 > Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." > > > [Rockhounds-Digest] > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Tucson Show (Don Norris) > 2. RE: Acicular Tourmaline (Axel Emmermann) > 3. RE: Tiger Mountain Amber? (Mike Messenger) > 4. Re: What red minerals are associated with galena? > (Kreigh Tomaszewski) > 5. Re: Volcanic Ash and firewood question (Carol J. Bova) > 6. Re: first suiseki, now agates (Kreigh Tomaszewski) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:09:27 -0700 > From: Don Norris > Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson Show > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <43CEA077.6000200@frii.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Is there anyone going to Tucson and have a booth at any of the shows? > Don Norris > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:12:38 +0100 > From: "Axel Emmermann" > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Tourmaline is very strongly dichroic, so strong that it is obvious even to > the naked eye. When the viewing angle approaches the C-axis, green > tourmaline (verdelite or elbaite) may appear almost black as a result of > this. > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Alan Goldstein > Verzonden: woensdag 18 januari 2006 20:54 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline > > > It's pretty widespread. Last summer, I collected acicular elbaite at the > Elizabeth R mine and acicular indicolite at the Blue Lady mine in San Diego > Co., California. Luckily, not everything I found was acicular! The elbaite > was green, brown and purple. > > Alan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:22 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline > > > > Dear rockhounds: > > I've been collecting at a NC mine dump , which is a pegmatite body termed > > alaskite and tonalite. Schorl is one of the most abundant species found, > > typically in black sprays. I have found "other" tourmaline crystals > > colored green, which I called "green schorl", until some of the academic > > investigators informed me that this had been ID'ed as true green elbaite > > by X ray diffraction analysis from two independent labs. Cool! My quandry > > is this: the species form not only in the classical tourmaline long, > > striated habits, but also as acicular, pelucic and felted masses. Under > > magnification (10x to 200x), they are observable as individual crystals, > > at times, appearing like dark green felt, punctuated with black streaks. > > Most of this is opaque, but I have seen very clear green, brown and grey > > crystals as well. > > I've searched the literature, which generally refers to the types of > > occurrence, but has not given me a definite answer. So, rockhounds! Has > > anyone, from personal experience, seen this type of habit or color or > > combination in the tourmaline family? I would be very pleased to hear from > > you. > > Sincerely, Edward J. Wagner > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 13:49:18 -0800 > From: "Mike Messenger" > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Tiger Mountain Amber? > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: > <52396294DCB35049990BF5746E719EC503FE46@ARMORHEAD.nwifc.wa.gov> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" > > Iridius - I have an old map and directions to the Tiger Mountain site > from one of Bob Jackson's old books but I do not know how good they are > since I have not been to the site myself. > > The Hasnon creek site does still produce some nice crystals but they are > mostly clear quarts. If you want some amethyst I would suggest you try > Walker Valley. There is a Washington State Mineral Council (WSMC) field > trip there this Saturday the 21st. They are meeting at 9:00 am at the > Big Lake store. > > Mike Messenger > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Iridius > Espedon Von Luxx > Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 9:05 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Tiger Mountain Amber? > > Does anyone have any experience collecting amber on Tiger Mountain and > know > where I can get either directions or GPS info to the spots where > collecting > is best. > > Also, anyone have experience at Hanson Creek collecting amethyst? > > Thanks for any help. > > Iridius > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:58:07 -0500 > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] What red minerals are associated with > galena? > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <43CED494.60A4@Tomaszewski.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Andrew, > > After looking at a few Broken Hill specimens found with Google I have no > doubts that you not only identified the specimen, but gave me the > location as well. And you didn't even need a picture. I'm impressed. > Thank you! > > Kreigh > > > Andrew Turner wrote: > > > > There are a bunch of secondary red silver minerals that are associated with > > galena. However, your description sounds just like the famous cubic-like red > > rhodonite crystals on galena from Broken Hill, New South Wales, Australia. > > They are often transparent/translucent (I'm looking at my specimen of it > > right now) and look exactly like you describe--on a bed of galena crystals. > > Hold onto this piece if that is what it is, they are hard to get and have > > gone way up in price the past few years. > > > > Andrew Turner > > Victorville, CA > > > > >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > >collectors" > > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > >collectors" > > >Subject: [Rockhounds] What red minerals are associated with galena? > > >Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:21:34 -0500 > > > > > >At tonight's rock club meeting I picked up a small unlabeled specimen of > > >glassy transparent/translucent red matrix with obvious galena crystals > > >in it. > > > > > >The massive red matrix has hints it may be a cubic crystal form (but > > >this may be due to having been broken off galena faces); broken faces > > >appear conchoidal. Hardness 5.5 - 6. Streak is white to pale pink. > > >Density of the whole specimen was 3.91, but this is obviously skewed by > > >the inclusion of galena (1/8 to 1/4). > > > > > >Before I start destructive testing of this small (1x1x1/2 inch) > > >attractive specimen I am wondering if this sounds familiar to anyone. > > >Any suggestions of what I found? > > > > > >Kreigh > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:11:18 -0500 > From: "Carol J. Bova" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Cc: cnye@giseis.alaska.edu > Message-ID: <1CF379A6-8880-11DA-BA16-000A95773806@mindspring.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=US-ASCII;format=flowed > > After wandering around the net trying to get info on this question, I > got to the National Weather Service Forecast Office in Anchorage, > Alaska, Augustine coordination page. > http://pafc.arh.noaa.gov/augustine.php > I used the contact address on that page, and asked about the reason for > the advisory on not burning firewood with volcanic ash, and got an > almost immediate response: > > In part, this is to avoid re-suspension of the ash in the smoke from > the burning wood. As that does not seem to be a serious consequence, we > have since removed it. > > It's been an interesting thread! > Carol > > Carol J. Bova > The Eclectic Lapidary > www.eclecticlapidary.com > > PS The only reference I could find online to the ash and firewood > statement was from: > WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION > ________________ > COMMISSION FOR BASIC SYSTEM > OPAG ON DPFS MEETING OF EMERGENCY RESPONSE ACTIVITIES COORDINATION > GROUP > WASHINGTON, 10-14 SEPTEMBER 2001CBS ERA/COG/Doc 9 _______ > Agenda Item 9 > USING ATMOSPHERIC TRANSPORT MODELLING FOR THE PREDICTION OF VOLCANIC > ASH FOR PUBLIC SAFETY > > > On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Erich Kern wrote: > >> > >> An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable origin of this > >> directive? It doesn't > >> make any sense to me either. > >> > >> Erich Kern > >> > >> Fw. message: > >> > >> ****************** > >> Ash and firewood > >> ****************** > >> From: Chris Nye > >> > >> An ash advisory that was issued immediately after a small eruption of > >> Augustine Volcano warned residents not to burn firewood in stoves or > >> fireplaces if the wood had volcanic ash on it. The warning was > >> picked up > >> and repeated by the national and international press. The Alaska > >> Volcano > >> Observatory has had a surprising amount of email asking for the basis > >> of > >> the warning. No one at AVO knows the basis, nor does anyone from the > >> agency that issued the warning. > >> > >> Questions for the listserv are: (1) Is there a rational basis for this > >> warning? and (2) Where in the literature of eruption preparedness did > >> this > >> come from? > >> > >> I've checked with a local woodstove retailer, a woodstove > >> manufacturer, and > >> a testing lab that concerns itself with chemical and environmental > >> issues > >> in wood-fueled heating. They were unaware of specific issues with > >> burning > >> ash-covered wood. Guesses about potential issues involve > >> re-entrainment of > >> ash in flues, sulfur-based corrosion issues, chemical or mechanical > >> damage > >> to catalytic converters (not an issue in fireplaces or many > >> woodstoves), > >> and vaguely conceived toxicity issues involving Cl or transition > >> metals. > >> > >> The surprisingly robust life of this issue makes us curious. Replies > >> to > >> cnye@giseis.alaska.edu will be appreciated. > >> > >> =========================================== > >> Christopher Nye > >> Alaska Volcano Observatory > >> Alaska Division of Geological and Geophysical Surveys > >> cnye@giseis.alaska.edu, ph: (907) 474-7430 > >> snailmail: Chris Nye, AVO/DGGS, UAF Geophysical Institute, 903 > >> Koyukuk > >> Drive, Fairbanks, AK 99775-7320 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched > --- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 19:19:40 -0500 > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] first suiseki, now agates > To: info@wisdomofstones.com, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list > for rock and gem collectors" > Message-ID: <43CED99E.6315@Tomaszewski.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Jennifer, > > Lake Superior is famous for its agates. > > Kreigh > > > Wisdom of Stones wrote: > > A second form of interpretative art I'm wanting to use are agates and wonder > > where in the midwest I can go agate hunting and collecting. Learning about > > the geology and mineralogy of rocks and minerals is very new to me as I've > > always explored it as a form of all sensory interpretative art so I'm > > appreciating the cross-over and integration I'm making with the left-brain > > side of me. It's also opened up and expanded the context of the work I do > > which makes it all even more exciting so thank you for this group and the > > support and generosity of information you all share. > > > > best, > > jennifer > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds mailing list > Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 20 > ****************************************** > From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Jan 18 23:56:53 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Jan 18 23:56:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] seeking article on dundasite from MinRec 1978 In-Reply-To: <011520060010.691.43C9930C000B2F98000002B3216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <011520060010.691.43C9930C000B2F98000002B3216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <43CF4645.5040408@verizon.net> Howdy all, The latest in an occasional series of odd favors: I am seeking an article in MinRec 3-4/1978, vol. 9-2, pp. 103-106, titled Microminerals, by Violet Anderson. This is how it was listed in Lanny Ream's MinDex. For the curious, I am looking for information on the suspected copper-bearing dundasite from Tai Mine, Te Aroha, New Zealand. This is a case where the dubious name "cuprodundasite" crept into the collector's parlance, to the point where a dealer was selling it under that name. However, no one involved in a recent discussion could point to an analytical reference and none of my companions Down Under was aware of any detailed observation other than copper was involved. Within the last few days someone asked me if I could look at some samples of both white and blue dundasite from that locality and put the issue to rest. Best, Don From magnet at crocoite.com Thu Jan 19 01:04:56 2006 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Thu Jan 19 01:05:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] seeking article on dundasite from MinRec 1978 Message-ID: <20060119090456.32187.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi Don Sorry I don't have that issue. There was another Minrec article that might have some relevant info too. If you can get it: Ansin, R.L., 1975, Minerals of the Tui Mine, New Zealand, Mineralogical Record 6: 26-31. This is the reference used for dundasite in Minerals of New Zealand (Railton and Watters, 1990). I will be one who is interested in the results too! Regards Steve > -------Original Message------- > From: DonH > Subject: [Rockhounds] seeking article on dundasite from MinRec 1978 > Sent: 18 Jan '06 21:56 > > > Howdy all, > > The latest in an occasional series of odd favors: I am seeking an > article in MinRec 3-4/1978, vol. 9-2, pp. 103-106, titled Microminerals, > by Violet Anderson. This is how it was listed in Lanny Ream's MinDex. > > For the curious, I am looking for information on the suspected > copper-bearing dundasite from Tai Mine, Te Aroha, New Zealand. This is > a case where the dubious name "cuprodundasite" crept into the > collector's parlance, to the point where a dealer was selling it under > that name. However, no one involved in a recent discussion could point > to an analytical reference and none of my companions Down Under was > aware of any detailed observation other than copper was involved. > Within the last few days someone asked me if I could look at some > samples of both white and blue dundasite from that locality and put the > issue to rest. > From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Thu Jan 19 06:11:39 2006 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Thu Jan 19 06:12:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE:Wisdon of Stones agates Message-ID: <20060119141139.XNEF11466.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Dear Jennifer: Agates exist in the midwest from the Great Lakes all the way down to wherever the glacial moraine was deposited. Check Rock&Gem magazine for agate collecting sites. I have a box of Red Chert from L.Superior I'd send you. Contact me by eMail or 828.272.0550. EJW From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 19 07:04:19 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jan 19 07:04:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] seeking article on dundasite from MinRec 1978 In-Reply-To: <43CF4645.5040408@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20060119150419.2878.qmail@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Don, I believe I have that issue. I'll look it up for you later today. Jim Daly --- DonH wrote: > > Howdy all, > > The latest in an occasional series of odd favors: I > am seeking an > article in MinRec 3-4/1978, vol. 9-2, pp. 103-106, > titled Microminerals, > by Violet Anderson. This is how it was listed in > Lanny Ream's MinDex. > > For the curious, I am looking for information on the > suspected > copper-bearing dundasite from Tai Mine, Te Aroha, > New Zealand. This is > a case where the dubious name "cuprodundasite" crept > into the > collector's parlance, to the point where a dealer > was selling it under > that name. However, no one involved in a recent > discussion could point > to an analytical reference and none of my companions > Down Under was > aware of any detailed observation other than copper > was involved. > Within the last few days someone asked me if I could > look at some > samples of both white and blue dundasite from that > locality and put the > issue to rest. > > > Best, > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 19 07:19:51 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jan 19 07:19:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question In-Reply-To: <73972c3853e08159aadc21ff67dda05d@lrream.com> Message-ID: <20060119151951.93150.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The big problem with incidents like this is that the "warnings" seem to take on a life of their own. Someone goes off half-cocked with a warning, and it just spreads, even after it has been retracted. Somehow, the retraction never gets the same publicity as the initial incorrect warning. Jim Daly --- Lanny wrote: > The > "let's-yell-the-sky-is-falling-before-we-know-anything" > crowd (= > EPA) did the same type of thing with the big 1980 > eruption of Mt. St. > Helens. All kinds of dire predictions were made as > to what the nasty > ash was going to do with its obvious noxious, toxic > and other equally > poisonous contents. Then they analyzed the ash over > the next few weeks > and discovered that, surprisingly, it was rock dust > and nothing else. > The only dangers were those normally attributed to > dust off a gravel > road, rock quarry, etc. > > Most likely it's the same with this warning. Someone > without a complete > handle on what the ash is dreamed up some problem. > As usual, the news > media jumped on it and spread the word of he > horrible pending dangers. > > If anyone is going to have problems burning wood > with a little volcanic > ash on it, most likely they already have problems > from burning "clean" > wood. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Erich Kern wrote: > > > > > An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable > origin of this > > directive? It doesn't > > make any sense to me either. > > > > Erich Kern > > > > Fw. message: > > > > ****************** > > Ash and firewood > > ****************** > > From: Chris Nye > > > > An ash advisory that was issued immediately after > a small eruption of > > Augustine Volcano warned residents not to burn > firewood in stoves or > > fireplaces if the wood had volcanic ash on it. > The warning was picked > > up > > and repeated by the national and international > press. The Alaska > > Volcano > > Observatory has had a surprising amount of email > asking for the basis > > of > > the warning. No one at AVO knows the basis, nor > does anyone from the > > agency that issued the warning. > > > > Questions for the listserv are: (1) Is there a > rational basis for this > > warning? and (2) Where in the literature of > eruption preparedness did > > this > > come from? > > > > I've checked with a local woodstove retailer, a > woodstove > > manufacturer, and > > a testing lab that concerns itself with chemical > and environmental > > issues > > in wood-fueled heating. They were unaware of > specific issues with > > burning > > ash-covered wood. Guesses about potential issues > involve > > re-entrainment of > > ash in flues, sulfur-based corrosion issues, > chemical or mechanical > > damage > > to catalytic converters (not an issue in > fireplaces or many > > woodstoves), > > and vaguely conceived toxicity issues involving Cl > or transition > > metals. > > > > The surprisingly robust life of this issue makes > us curious. Replies > > to > > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu will be appreciated. > > > > =========================================== > > Christopher Nye > > Alaska Volcano Observatory > > Alaska Division of Geological and Geophysical > Surveys > > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu, ph: (907) 474-7430 > > snailmail: Chris Nye, AVO/DGGS, UAF Geophysical > Institute, 903 Koyukuk > > Drive, Fairbanks, AK 99775-7320 > > > > > ============================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Jan 19 08:22:30 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Jan 19 08:20:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question References: <002501c61b98$cd2bb350$4897b2d1@TheBlackAdder> <73972c3853e08159aadc21ff67dda05d@lrream.com> Message-ID: <000701c61d14$8c155ec0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Lanny you have to remember that EPA is a big agency and not all of them are the-sky-is-falling-types. I know I spent some time doing battle with some of their lower level types. There are certainly others that know how to compromise and make judicious decisions. They are also driven by court decisions and the threat of suit by environmental groups. Early in my career I had the pleasure of attending some meetings with Dr. Hagen-Smitt (spelling?) who was a real gentleman and a real environmental hero no one has ever heard of. He was the chemist who figured out how the smog in the Los Angeles basin was formed. He and the California Air Resources Board prior to EPA, who took on the automotive industry in this country in fifties and sixties and prevailed. Are some of the rest of you aware of scientist and engineers that are real heros we have never heard of?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question > The "let's-yell-the-sky-is-falling-before-we-know-anything" crowd (= > EPA) did the same type of thing with the big 1980 eruption of Mt. St. > Helens. All kinds of dire predictions were made as to what the nasty > ash was going to do with its obvious noxious, toxic and other equally > poisonous contents. Then they analyzed the ash over the next few weeks > and discovered that, surprisingly, it was rock dust and nothing else. > The only dangers were those normally attributed to dust off a gravel > road, rock quarry, etc. > > Most likely it's the same with this warning. Someone without a complete > handle on what the ash is dreamed up some problem. As usual, the news > media jumped on it and spread the word of he horrible pending dangers. > > If anyone is going to have problems burning wood with a little volcanic > ash on it, most likely they already have problems from burning "clean" > wood. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Erich Kern wrote: > > > > > An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable origin of this > > directive? It doesn't > > make any sense to me either. > > > > Erich Kern > > > > Fw. message: > > > > ****************** > > Ash and firewood > > ****************** > > From: Chris Nye > > > > An ash advisory that was issued immediately after a small eruption of > > Augustine Volcano warned residents not to burn firewood in stoves or > > fireplaces if the wood had volcanic ash on it. The warning was picked > > up > > and repeated by the national and international press. The Alaska > > Volcano > > Observatory has had a surprising amount of email asking for the basis > > of > > the warning. No one at AVO knows the basis, nor does anyone from the > > agency that issued the warning. > > > > Questions for the listserv are: (1) Is there a rational basis for this > > warning? and (2) Where in the literature of eruption preparedness did > > this > > come from? > > > > I've checked with a local woodstove retailer, a woodstove > > manufacturer, and > > a testing lab that concerns itself with chemical and environmental > > issues > > in wood-fueled heating. They were unaware of specific issues with > > burning > > ash-covered wood. Guesses about potential issues involve > > re-entrainment of > > ash in flues, sulfur-based corrosion issues, chemical or mechanical > > damage > > to catalytic converters (not an issue in fireplaces or many > > woodstoves), > > and vaguely conceived toxicity issues involving Cl or transition > > metals. > > > > The surprisingly robust life of this issue makes us curious. Replies > > to > > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu will be appreciated. > > > > =========================================== > > Christopher Nye > > Alaska Volcano Observatory > > Alaska Division of Geological and Geophysical Surveys > > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu, ph: (907) 474-7430 > > snailmail: Chris Nye, AVO/DGGS, UAF Geophysical Institute, 903 Koyukuk > > Drive, Fairbanks, AK 99775-7320 > > > > ============================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jtsonn at nwi.net Thu Jan 19 08:57:56 2006 From: jtsonn at nwi.net (jtsonn) Date: Thu Jan 19 09:01:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question References: <002501c61b98$cd2bb350$4897b2d1@TheBlackAdder><73972c3853e08159aadc21ff67dda05d@lrream.com> <000701c61d14$8c155ec0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000701c61d19$7fef1280$b28b82ce@jtsonn> The warning for the burning of firewood that has some volcanic ash must live in a perfect world. Those of us that live in Eastern Washington and eastern Oregon live on a table of volcanic ash. Many of us live on a layer of lava up to 5000 feet deep and all our soil which measures up to 25 feet is from volcanic ash from the Cascade volcanoes. The St Helen's ash varied from an almost granular sand ash up to 75 miles from the Mtn. to as much as 8 inches of powder ash in the Columbia basin. Within the year most of it was assimilated into the top soil. It is rare in our area to have need for phosphate or potash fertilizers because of the volcanic ash in our soils. It sounds like someone cried wolf. Jerry Sonney jtsonn@nwi.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question > Lanny you have to remember that EPA is a big agency and not all of them are > the-sky-is-falling-types. I know I spent some time doing battle with some of > their lower level types. There are certainly others that know how to > compromise and make judicious decisions. They are also driven by court > decisions and the threat of suit by environmental groups. > > Early in my career I had the pleasure of attending some meetings with Dr. > Hagen-Smitt (spelling?) who was a real gentleman and a real environmental > hero no one has ever heard of. He was the chemist who figured out how the > smog in the Los Angeles basin was formed. He and the California Air > Resources Board prior to EPA, who took on the automotive industry in this > country in fifties and sixties and prevailed. Are some of the rest of you > aware of scientist and engineers that are real heros we have never heard > of?? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lanny" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:33 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question > > > > The "let's-yell-the-sky-is-falling-before-we-know-anything" crowd (= > > EPA) did the same type of thing with the big 1980 eruption of Mt. St. > > Helens. All kinds of dire predictions were made as to what the nasty > > ash was going to do with its obvious noxious, toxic and other equally > > poisonous contents. Then they analyzed the ash over the next few weeks > > and discovered that, surprisingly, it was rock dust and nothing else. > > The only dangers were those normally attributed to dust off a gravel > > road, rock quarry, etc. > > > > Most likely it's the same with this warning. Someone without a complete > > handle on what the ash is dreamed up some problem. As usual, the news > > media jumped on it and spread the word of he horrible pending dangers. > > > > If anyone is going to have problems burning wood with a little volcanic > > ash on it, most likely they already have problems from burning "clean" > > wood. > > > > Regards, > > > > Lanny > > > > On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Erich Kern wrote: > > > > > > > > An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable origin of this > > > directive? It doesn't > > > make any sense to me either. > > > > > > Erich Kern > > > > > > Fw. message: > > > > > > ****************** > > > Ash and firewood > > > ****************** > > > From: Chris Nye > > > > > > An ash advisory that was issued immediately after a small eruption of > > > Augustine Volcano warned residents not to burn firewood in stoves or > > > fireplaces if the wood had volcanic ash on it. The warning was picked > > > up > > > and repeated by the national and international press. The Alaska > > > Volcano > > > Observatory has had a surprising amount of email asking for the basis > > > of > > > the warning. No one at AVO knows the basis, nor does anyone from the > > > agency that issued the warning. > > > > > > Questions for the listserv are: (1) Is there a rational basis for this > > > warning? and (2) Where in the literature of eruption preparedness did > > > this > > > come from? > > > > > > I've checked with a local woodstove retailer, a woodstove > > > manufacturer, and > > > a testing lab that concerns itself with chemical and environmental > > > issues > > > in wood-fueled heating. They were unaware of specific issues with > > > burning > > > ash-covered wood. Guesses about potential issues involve > > > re-entrainment of > > > ash in flues, sulfur-based corrosion issues, chemical or mechanical > > > damage > > > to catalytic converters (not an issue in fireplaces or many > > > woodstoves), > > > and vaguely conceived toxicity issues involving Cl or transition > > > metals. > > > > > > The surprisingly robust life of this issue makes us curious. Replies > > > to > > > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu will be appreciated. > > > > > > =========================================== > > > Christopher Nye > > > Alaska Volcano Observatory > > > Alaska Division of Geological and Geophysical Surveys > > > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu, ph: (907) 474-7430 > > > snailmail: Chris Nye, AVO/DGGS, UAF Geophysical Institute, 903 Koyukuk > > > Drive, Fairbanks, AK 99775-7320 > > > > > > ============================================================== > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From efkern at earthlink.net Thu Jan 19 09:04:59 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Thu Jan 19 09:04:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scientist heroes / Volcanic Ash and firewood question References: <002501c61b98$cd2bb350$4897b2d1@TheBlackAdder><73972c3853e08159aadc21ff67dda05d@lrream.com> <000701c61d14$8c155ec0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000e01c61d1a$7b8e8210$5791b2d1@TheBlackAdder> A quote I use often is from toxicologist Dr. Bruce Ames: "The dose makes the poison", e.g. one doesn't drink bleach, but it's a handy way to make water safe to drink by adding a half teaspoon per gallon. Ames was one of the first to point out that plants make their own potent insecticides, some of which in large doses, will cause cancer in mice, but that we'd be doing much greater harm to ourselves by not eating vegetables. Likewise with the hysteria surrounding anything "radioactive". What bothers me most about the last item is that it has so conditioned public opinion on the subject that if someday, God forbid, we have a dirty bomb incident in this country, people will panic and, after a few weeks, not believe that certain areas are safe due to the short half-life of the most radioactive of the isotopes. An interview with Ames is at: www.fumento.com/ames.html Jaybates is right about LA smog. When I moved to Cailfornia in the 60's the smog in LA during the summer was visibly brown and made my eyes water. Thirty years later it's nearly gone. The problem is that the closest thing to eternal life on earth is a government program, and now those who work for the AQMD have to dig hard for new substances to regulate or find other work. One example is the volatile organic solvent in PVC pipe cement, the removal of which has resulted in an inferior solvent weld product. But I digress. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question Lanny you have to remember that EPA is a big agency and not all of them are the-sky-is-falling-types. I know I spent some time doing battle with some of their lower level types. There are certainly others that know how to compromise and make judicious decisions. They are also driven by court decisions and the threat of suit by environmental groups. Early in my career I had the pleasure of attending some meetings with Dr. Hagen-Smitt (spelling?) who was a real gentleman and a real environmental hero no one has ever heard of. He was the chemist who figured out how the smog in the Los Angeles basin was formed. He and the California Air Resources Board prior to EPA, who took on the automotive industry in this country in fifties and sixties and prevailed. Are some of the rest of you aware of scientist and engineers that are real heros we have never heard of?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question > The "let's-yell-the-sky-is-falling-before-we-know-anything" crowd (= > EPA) did the same type of thing with the big 1980 eruption of Mt. St. > Helens. All kinds of dire predictions were made as to what the nasty > ash was going to do with its obvious noxious, toxic and other equally > poisonous contents. Then they analyzed the ash over the next few weeks > and discovered that, surprisingly, it was rock dust and nothing else. > The only dangers were those normally attributed to dust off a gravel > road, rock quarry, etc. > > Most likely it's the same with this warning. Someone without a complete > handle on what the ash is dreamed up some problem. As usual, the news > media jumped on it and spread the word of he horrible pending dangers. > > If anyone is going to have problems burning wood with a little volcanic > ash on it, most likely they already have problems from burning "clean" > wood. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Erich Kern wrote: > > > > > An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable origin of this > > directive? It doesn't > > make any sense to me either. > > > > Erich Kern > > > > Fw. message: > > > > ****************** > > Ash and firewood > > ****************** > > From: Chris Nye > > > > An ash advisory that was issued immediately after a small eruption of > > Augustine Volcano warned residents not to burn firewood in stoves or > > fireplaces if the wood had volcanic ash on it. The warning was picked > > up > > and repeated by the national and international press. The Alaska > > Volcano > > Observatory has had a surprising amount of email asking for the basis > > of > > the warning. No one at AVO knows the basis, nor does anyone from the > > agency that issued the warning. > > > > Questions for the listserv are: (1) Is there a rational basis for this > > warning? and (2) Where in the literature of eruption preparedness did > > this > > come from? > > > > I've checked with a local woodstove retailer, a woodstove > > manufacturer, and > > a testing lab that concerns itself with chemical and environmental > > issues > > in wood-fueled heating. They were unaware of specific issues with > > burning > > ash-covered wood. Guesses about potential issues involve > > re-entrainment of > > ash in flues, sulfur-based corrosion issues, chemical or mechanical > > damage > > to catalytic converters (not an issue in fireplaces or many > > woodstoves), > > and vaguely conceived toxicity issues involving Cl or transition > > metals. > > > > The surprisingly robust life of this issue makes us curious. Replies > > to > > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu will be appreciated. > > > > =========================================== > > Christopher Nye > > Alaska Volcano Observatory > > Alaska Division of Geological and Geophysical Surveys > > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu, ph: (907) 474-7430 > > snailmail: Chris Nye, AVO/DGGS, UAF Geophysical Institute, 903 Koyukuk > > Drive, Fairbanks, AK 99775-7320 > > > > ============================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kadok at infowest.com Thu Jan 19 09:53:11 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jan 19 09:53:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question In-Reply-To: <20060119151951.93150.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501c61d21$36ee9710$0200a8c0@kadok> Lanny, Often such things turn out to be a case of C.Y.A. In tis litigious day and age, if there is any chance at all of something happening -- "better safe than sued! Margaret The big problem with incidents like this is that the "warnings" seem to take on a life of their own. Someone goes off half-cocked with a warning, and it just spreads, even after it has been retracted. Somehow, the retraction never gets the same publicity as the initial incorrect warning. Jim Daly --- Lanny wrote: > The > "let's-yell-the-sky-is-falling-before-we-know-anything" > crowd (= > EPA) did the same type of thing with the big 1980 > eruption of Mt. St. > Helens. All kinds of dire predictions were made as > to what the nasty > ash was going to do with its obvious noxious, toxic > and other equally > poisonous contents. Then they analyzed the ash over > the next few weeks > and discovered that, surprisingly, it was rock dust > and nothing else. > The only dangers were those normally attributed to > dust off a gravel > road, rock quarry, etc. > > Most likely it's the same with this warning. Someone > without a complete > handle on what the ash is dreamed up some problem. > As usual, the news > media jumped on it and spread the word of he > horrible pending dangers. > > If anyone is going to have problems burning wood > with a little volcanic > ash on it, most likely they already have problems > from burning "clean" > wood. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > On Jan 17, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Erich Kern wrote: > > > > > An interesting issue. Anyone know the probable > origin of this > > directive? It doesn't > > make any sense to me either. > > > > Erich Kern > > > > Fw. message: > > > > ****************** > > Ash and firewood > > ****************** > > From: Chris Nye > > > > An ash advisory that was issued immediately after > a small eruption of > > Augustine Volcano warned residents not to burn > firewood in stoves or > > fireplaces if the wood had volcanic ash on it. > The warning was picked > > up > > and repeated by the national and international > press. The Alaska > > Volcano > > Observatory has had a surprising amount of email > asking for the basis > > of > > the warning. No one at AVO knows the basis, nor > does anyone from the > > agency that issued the warning. > > > > Questions for the listserv are: (1) Is there a > rational basis for this > > warning? and (2) Where in the literature of > eruption preparedness did > > this > > come from? > > > > I've checked with a local woodstove retailer, a > woodstove > > manufacturer, and > > a testing lab that concerns itself with chemical > and environmental > > issues > > in wood-fueled heating. They were unaware of > specific issues with > > burning > > ash-covered wood. Guesses about potential issues > involve > > re-entrainment of > > ash in flues, sulfur-based corrosion issues, > chemical or mechanical > > damage > > to catalytic converters (not an issue in > fireplaces or many > > woodstoves), > > and vaguely conceived toxicity issues involving Cl > or transition > > metals. > > > > The surprisingly robust life of this issue makes > us curious. Replies > > to > > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu will be appreciated. > > > > =========================================== > > Christopher Nye > > Alaska Volcano Observatory > > Alaska Division of Geological and Geophysical > Surveys > > cnye@giseis.alaska.edu, ph: (907) 474-7430 > > snailmail: Chris Nye, AVO/DGGS, UAF Geophysical > Institute, 903 Koyukuk > > Drive, Fairbanks, AK 99775-7320 > > > > > ============================================================== > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 19 11:34:16 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jan 19 11:34:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] seeking article on dundasite from MinRec 1978 In-Reply-To: <43CF4645.5040408@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20060119193416.33421.qmail@web34312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Don, The reference cited sheds no light on the problem. It's just a mention in Violet's report on the 1977 Detroit Show that she had seen dundasite from the Tai Mine, Te Aroha, New Zealand for sale by David Garske. Nothing more- no description. Jim Daly --- DonH wrote: > > Howdy all, > > The latest in an occasional series of odd favors: I > am seeking an > article in MinRec 3-4/1978, vol. 9-2, pp. 103-106, > titled Microminerals, > by Violet Anderson. This is how it was listed in > Lanny Ream's MinDex. > > For the curious, I am looking for information on the > suspected > copper-bearing dundasite from Tai Mine, Te Aroha, > New Zealand. This is > a case where the dubious name "cuprodundasite" crept > into the > collector's parlance, to the point where a dealer > was selling it under > that name. However, no one involved in a recent > discussion could point > to an analytical reference and none of my companions > Down Under was > aware of any detailed observation other than copper > was involved. > Within the last few days someone asked me if I could > look at some > samples of both white and blue dundasite from that > locality and put the > issue to rest. > > > Best, > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dnorris at frii.com Thu Jan 19 11:39:26 2006 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Thu Jan 19 11:39:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? References: Message-ID: <43CFEAEE.8000300@frii.com> I asked this on a list of jewelry makers and would like to ask you guys the same questions. I do want to know the answers for sure, but it will be interesting to see how they differ too. What is green agate? Real, or enhanced by man? Pretty or not? Should we use it in our jewelry? What is green quartz? How is it different from green agate? It is pretty, isn't it? Anyone have some to sell? Cheap? Oh course! Thanks, Don Norris RUSTYSILVERART.COM From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Thu Jan 19 12:02:07 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Thu Jan 19 11:58:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? In-Reply-To: <43CFEAEE.8000300@frii.com> Message-ID: <77B48BFE-8926-11DA-B645-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> > > What is green agate? A: Cryptocrystalline patterned quartz which is colored green by coloring agents such as copper and nickel. Not patterned it would be green chalcedony. > Real, or enhanced by man? A: Can be either > Pretty or not? A: Eye of the beholder > Should we use it in our jewelry? A: Your call > What is green quartz? A: Macrocrystalline; color normally man-induced > How is it different from green agate? A: Color normally man-induced; the other distinction is implicit in the difference between macrocrystalline and cryptocrystalline > It is pretty, isn't it? A: Eye of the beholder > Anyone have some to sell? Cheap? Oh course! > > Thanks, > Don Norris > RUSTYSILVERART.COM Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From albalmer at att.net Thu Jan 19 12:31:40 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jan 19 12:31:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? In-Reply-To: <43CFEAEE.8000300@frii.com> References: <43CFEAEE.8000300@frii.com> Message-ID: <43CFF72C.2030303@att.net> Don Norris wrote: > I asked this on a list of jewelry makers and would like to ask you guys > the same questions. I do want to know the answers for sure, but it will > be interesting to see how they differ too. > > What is green agate? > Real, or enhanced by man? I've seen some natural agate that's sort of greenish, but mostly what you see is dyed. > Pretty or not? Eye of the beholder. Personally, I dislike dyed stone. > Should we use it in our jewelry? > What is green quartz? > How is it different from green agate? Agate, of course, is a form of quartz. Here, I presume you mean transparent material. There is natural quartz that is slightly green, but there's lots of synthetic quartz that is very pretty (imo) green in various shades. > It is pretty, isn't it? > Anyone have some to sell? Cheap? Oh course! Ten cents/carat or thereabouts in small quantities for synthetic. Available from most any facet rough dealer. From dnorris at frii.com Thu Jan 19 12:38:18 2006 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Thu Jan 19 12:38:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? References: <77B48BFE-8926-11DA-B645-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <43CFF8BA.8090203@frii.com> Thanks,Hans,\just what I needed, very precise, and quick. I have collect rocks for 50 or more years, but not real serious about the make up of them. May I ask in laymans terms, for non educated guy like me (I'm serious here, if it can be done): what is the difference between patterned agate and non patterned chalcedony? Can an average person tell them apart by looking, if set side by side? What is the difference between Macocrystalline, quartz and chalcedony? Again, Can an average person tell them apart by looking, if set side by side? "By use in Jewelry?" I am meant to ask, will it hold up? Crack? Fade? Should it be protected by a complete bezel, or can it be set with prongs? Are the faceted greeen quartz stones fragile, or can they split, cleave? I ask becasue years ago someone came out with a faceted "smokey topaz" stone. It was large at one end and tapered to a narrow "point" on the other end, on the top of the stone. Then it was reversed on the bottom. A beautiful sotne, but I sold a lot of them, and some came back broken? So I stopped useing them, but the supplier quit selling thme too! Do some of you faceters, know the cut I described? Thanks again from the little kid, that may have to many questions! Don Norris LearnSilver.com From dnorris at frii.com Thu Jan 19 12:46:15 2006 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Thu Jan 19 12:46:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? References: <43CFEAEE.8000300@frii.com> <43CFF72C.2030303@att.net> Message-ID: <43CFFA97.2010503@frii.com> Thanks Al, you are a great resource. 10 cents a carat seems pretty cheap, for that I would use some for sure. Dyed or not, I guess. I agree with you about using dyed stones for sure. But have changed my mind after laughing at all the people selling and using fiber optics glass in jewelry. Then someone paid me off with a bunch of cabochons that I had to use or lose money. It sold so well that I had to buy more and more. I guess I am no longer a purest. That money thing will ruin us and the dark green stuff I see at the shows sure is pretty! Thanks again, Don From efkern at earthlink.net Thu Jan 19 14:18:37 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Thu Jan 19 14:18:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? References: <43CFEAEE.8000300@frii.com><43CFF72C.2030303@att.net> <43CFFA97.2010503@frii.com> Message-ID: <002001c61d46$4be98830$d193b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Chrysoprase is green agate isn't it? Pugh's book lists chrysoprase under quartz. This answer is so obvious to me that I'm sure there's more to it than meets my eyes. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Norris" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? Thanks Al, you are a great resource. 10 cents a carat seems pretty cheap, for that I would use some for sure. Dyed or not, I guess. I agree with you about using dyed stones for sure. But have changed my mind after laughing at all the people selling and using fiber optics glass in jewelry. Then someone paid me off with a bunch of cabochons that I had to use or lose money. It sold so well that I had to buy more and more. I guess I am no longer a purest. That money thing will ruin us and the dark green stuff I see at the shows sure is pretty! Thanks again, Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From albalmer at att.net Thu Jan 19 16:33:16 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jan 19 16:33:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? In-Reply-To: <002001c61d46$4be98830$d193b2d1@TheBlackAdder> References: <43CFEAEE.8000300@frii.com><43CFF72C.2030303@att.net> <43CFFA97.2010503@frii.com> <002001c61d46$4be98830$d193b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <43D02FCC.2050801@att.net> Erich Kern wrote: > > Chrysoprase is green agate isn't it? Pugh's book lists chrysoprase under quartz. > This answer is so obvious to me that I'm sure there's more to it than meets my eyes. > > Erich > I'll defer to the experts, but I think you're close. Agate and chrysoprase are both cryptocrystalline quartz, but I think it's called agate only when it's patterned. Good point, though - if it can be green as chrysoprase, why not in bands or spots? I personally have never seen any patterned chalcedony the color of chrysoprase, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Norris" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? > > > Thanks Al, you are a great resource. 10 cents a carat seems pretty > cheap, for that I would use some for sure. Dyed or not, I guess. I agree > with you about using dyed stones for sure. But have changed my mind > after laughing at all the people selling and using fiber optics glass in > jewelry. Then someone paid me off with a bunch of cabochons that I had > to use or lose money. It sold so well that I had to buy more and more. I > guess I am no longer a purest. That money thing will ruin us and the > dark green stuff I see at the shows sure is pretty! > Thanks again, > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From bova at mindspring.com Thu Jan 19 16:47:57 2006 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Thu Jan 19 16:46:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? In-Reply-To: <002001c61d46$4be98830$d193b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <665530FE-894E-11DA-BA16-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Liddicoat's Handbook of Gem Identification, calls it semi-transparent to translucent, light to medium, yellowish-green chalcedony. Sinkankas, in his book 'Mineralogy' says under Cryptocrystalline Quartz that chrysoprase is bright yellow-green caused by a colloidal nickel compound, possibly garnierite. GIA doesn't deal with it in their Gem Reference Guide or Gem Property charts... (didn't dig out my colored stones books to check further) My Webster is not on his shelf.. so I don't know what he said. *g* Carol Carol J. Bova On Thursday, January 19, 2006, at 05:18 PM, Erich Kern wrote: > > > Chrysoprase is green agate isn't it? Pugh's book lists chrysoprase > under quartz. > This answer is so obvious to me that I'm sure there's more to it than > meets my eyes. > > Erich > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Norris" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 12:46 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? > > > Thanks Al, you are a great resource. 10 cents a carat seems pretty > cheap, for that I would use some for sure. Dyed or not, I guess. I > agree > with you about using dyed stones for sure. But have changed my mind > after laughing at all the people selling and using fiber optics glass > in > jewelry. Then someone paid me off with a bunch of cabochons that I had > to use or lose money. It sold so well that I had to buy more and more. > I > guess I am no longer a purest. That money thing will ruin us and the > dark green stuff I see at the shows sure is pretty! > Thanks again, > Don From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Jan 19 20:06:14 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Jan 19 20:06:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And the abrasives would probably help wash that hog! Glenn From: J Bryan Kramer codeburner@gmail.com The ash has already been cooked at high temps which would boil off any volatiles. Probably higher temps than are reached in any household fireplace. My off the cuff response: pure hogwash. BK On 1/17/06, Glenn Wimpee <pawpawtiger@hotmail.com> wrote:  OK chemists, any poison gasses likely to be released in potent quantities,  or is this typical overprotective Big Brother  Glenn ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Find e-mail, documents and more on your PC instantly with Windows Desktop Search–FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From bombastus at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 19 20:35:00 2006 From: bombastus at worldnet.att.net (Homer Eshbaugh) Date: Thu Jan 19 20:35:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? References: <77B48BFE-8926-11DA-B645-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> <43CFF8BA.8090203@frii.com> Message-ID: <002501c61d7a$e0539ef0$aa98490c@HHEPC> Don - I, too, am constantly looking for mineral definitions put in layman's terms. So much info is couched in scientific terms that defy my understanding, having no background in geology or mineralogy. I did have a chemistry minor in college, so I recognize the symbols of the atomic elements (NaCl means one atom sodium, one atom chlorine), but that's not very helpful when all I need to know is "what is it?" (the answer, as you no doubt know, is "salt", as in table salt). I, too, had a hard time understanding the various quartz forms and varieties. I did lots of digging on the internet, and I think I finally got it straight. (If I make any mistakes in the discussion below, I hope the real gurus will correct me.) QUARTZ - silicon dioxide, Soil. Any mineral made up of Soil, therefore, is quartz. However, quartz comes in a whole passel of varieties. Many of these varieties have there own names. MACROCRYSTALLINE / MICROCRYSTALLINE - these are scientific terms that describe one physical aspect of a mineral. MACROcrystalline means that the individual crystals are big enough to be seem with the naked eye. MICROcrystalline means that individual crystals are TOO SMALL to be seen with the naked eye. What I always think of as "Quartz" is, more technically speaking, MACROcrystalline quartz. So far as I know, when someone speaks of quartz, they normally mean mac rocrystaline quartz. MICROocrystalline quartz looks nothing like the big, beautiful quartz crystals of macrocrystalline quartz. It is massive, i.e., comes in a big, solid lump. CHALCEDONY - technically speaking, any MICROcrystalline quartz is termed "Chalcedony". Its chemical formula is still SiO2, so chemically, chalcedony and "quartz" are absolutely identical. However, their FORMS are quite different. Just as "quartz" comes in many varieties (amethyst, citrine, rock crystal, smoky quartz, etc.), so does chalcedony (agate, chrysoprase, jasper, onyx, etc.). Generally speaking (again, as far as I can tell), any chalcedony lacking a pretty color or an interesting pattern is called either chalcedony or "Chert". (Chert is also used as a name for any chalcedony that contains the remains of micro-organisms). It also appears that "chalcedony" is used to mean, specifically, white or lightly colored massive or nodular chalcedony. PATTERNED - displaying a distinctive pattern. As with any other mineral, this term can be used to describe chalcedony that displays a pattern. Some examples would include agate (chalcedony with curved banding that eventually forms a complete loop), onyx (chalcedony with parallel banding, does NOT form a loop), dentritic agate (not an agate at all - it has no banding; rather, it is chalcedony with inclusions of manganese oxide that form tree-like or fern-like patterns), etc. CHRYSOPRASE - chalcedony with no pattern and an apple-green color. Just as with all other chalcedony, it is silicon dioxide, and is, therefore, quartz (microcrystalline, of course). GREEN AGATE - a trade name. There are even more trade names for the varieties of chalcedony than there are actual varieties of chalcedony! (This true of many other minerals as well.) Vendors are constantly coming up with new marketing strategies, and this definitely includes giving something a new name based on some minor difference (or perceived difference). If the specimen(s) you are talking about come in crystalline form (like "quartz"), then it is probably (but not necessarily) macrocrystaline quartz. As noted by others, quartz can be treated to achieve a green color not found in nature. Some vendors will specify that a piece is "treated"; some will not unless you specifically ask. If the specimen is banded like agate, it probably is agate (sorry to be obvious). Agate may or may not be translucent, transparent or opaque, but so far as I can tell, to be agate, it MUST be banded. Agate is porous enough to make dying it very easy (and common). Of course, agate can also occur naturally in virtually anycolor including (as I understand it) green. Again, the vendor may not volunteer that it has been artificially treated. If the specimen is relatively uniform in color, opaque, and massive, it may be chalcedony (my personal guess as to the true identity of your "green agate"). I have a jasper (a variety of chalcedony) specimen that is a nice grass green, with a pattern of small, overlapping curves, but I cannot tell you whether the color is natural or artificial. JEWELRY - I know nothing about jewelry making, so I cannot help you on brittleness, faceting, etc. I have most frequently seen agate and chalcedony jewelry in the form of cabochons, but someone more knowledgable in the group can give you the straight dope. ************************************************* Sorry this has turned into an interminable note. It just "sort of grew", like Topsy. Just let me conclude by stressing again that I am NOT an expert on minerals. If I've made any errors, I would be quite pleased to be corrected, thus stopping the dissemination of false info. I hope this has helped. Homer, a long time lurker. From: "Don Norris" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? > > > Thanks,Hans,\just what I needed, very precise, and quick. I have collect > rocks for 50 or more years, but not real serious about the make up of > them. May I ask in laymans terms, for non educated guy like me (I'm > serious here, if it can be done): > > what is the difference between patterned agate and non patterned > chalcedony? > > Can an average person tell them apart by looking, if set side by side? > > What is the difference between Macocrystalline, quartz and chalcedony? > > Again, Can an average person tell them apart by looking, if set side by > side? > > "By use in Jewelry?" I am meant to ask, will it hold up? > Crack? > Fade? > Should it be protected by a complete bezel, or can it be set with prongs? > Are the faceted greeen quartz stones fragile, or can they split, cleave? > I ask becasue years ago someone came out with a faceted "smokey topaz" > stone. It was large at one end and tapered to a narrow "point" on the > other end, on the top of the stone. Then it was reversed on the bottom. A > beautiful sotne, but I sold a lot of them, and some came back broken? So I > stopped useing them, but the supplier quit selling thme too! > > Do some of you faceters, know the cut I described? > > Thanks again from the little kid, that may have to many questions! > Don Norris > LearnSilver.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Jan 19 20:54:55 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Jan 19 20:54:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic Ash and firewood question In-Reply-To: <000701c61d14$8c155ec0$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: How true! Too bad we tend to overlook so many true scientists and engineers that really make improvements in our lives and environment. Glenn From: "jaybates" <jaybates@rcn.com> Lanny you have to remember that EPA is a big agency and not all of them are the-sky-is-falling-types. I know I spent some time doing battle with some of their lower level types. There are certainly others that know how to compromise and make judicious decisions. They are also driven by court decisions and the threat of suit by environmental groups. Early in my career I had the pleasure of attending some meetings with Dr. Hagen-Smitt (spelling?) who was a real gentleman and a real environmental hero no one has ever heard of. He was the chemist who figured out how the smog in the Los Angeles basin was formed. He and the California Air Resources Board prior to EPA, who took on the automotive industry in this country in fifties and sixties and prevailed. Are some of the rest of you aware of scientist and engineers that are real heros we have never heard of?? ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ New!  Find great places to spend your next vacation with Windows Live Local ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Jan 19 21:19:36 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Jan 19 21:19:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? In-Reply-To: <002501c61d7a$e0539ef0$aa98490c@HHEPC> Message-ID: Great post! I too am constantly looking for ways to explain complicated things in lay terms. IMHO those who truly "know their stuff" can make most things easily understandable to most people. Thanks Homer! Glenn From: "Homer Eshbaugh" bombastus@worldnet.att.net I, too, am constantly looking for mineral definitions put in layman's terms. So much info is couched in scientific terms that defy my understanding, having no background in geology or mineralogy. I did have a chemistry minor in college, so I recognize the symbols of the atomic elements (NaCl means one atom sodium, one atom chlorine), but that's not very helpful when all I need to know is "what is it?" (the answer, as you no doubt know, is "salt", as in table salt). I, too, had a hard time understanding the various quartz forms and varieties. I did lots of digging on the internet, and I think I finally got it straight. (If I make any mistakes in the discussion below, I hope the real gurus will correct me.) QUARTZ - silicon dioxide, Soil. Any mineral made up of Soil, therefore, is quartz. However, quartz comes in a whole passel of varieties. Many of these varieties have there own names. MACROCRYSTALLINE / MICROCRYSTALLINE - these are scientific terms that describe one physical aspect of a mineral. MACROcrystalline means that the individual crystals are big enough to be seem with the naked eye. MICROcrystalline means that individual crystals are TOO SMALL to be seen with the naked eye. What I always think of as "Quartz" is, more technically speaking, MACROcrystalline quartz. So far as I know, when someone speaks of quartz, they normally mean mac rocrystaline quartz. MICROocrystalline quartz looks nothing like the big, beautiful quartz crystals of macrocrystalline quartz. It is massive, i.e., comes in a big, solid lump. CHALCEDONY - technically speaking, any MICROcrystalline quartz is termed "Chalcedony". Its chemical formula is still SiO2, so chemically, chalcedony and "quartz" are absolutely identical. PATTERNED - displaying a distinctive pattern. As with any other CHRYSOPRASE - chalcedony with no pattern and an apple-green color. GREEN AGATE - a trade name. There are even more trade names for the Homer, a long time lurker. ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Download today's top songs at MSN Music from artists like U2, Eminem, & Kelly Clarkson ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Jan 19 21:35:02 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Jan 19 21:36:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Boom! Message-ID: We experienced a big widespread boom here on the northern gulf coast near Mobile, Alabama today around 2:30 PM. Local news media reported it tonight as still from an unknown source. No confirmed sonic booms, refinery or other explosions, nor registered earth tremors. The sky was very clear. It was a single big shock with no others...not a long "roll". And it was felt over a couple of big counties. At least one warehouse had items fall off shelves. Cool! Glenn  {:{D} ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ New!  Find great places to spend your next vacation with Windows Live Local ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Jan 19 21:37:28 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Jan 19 21:37:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcanic ash responses Message-ID: Thanks for the many good, thought provoking responses on this thread! Glenn ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ MSN Premium brings together everything you need on the Internet in 1 place, including PC security! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Thu Jan 19 22:25:23 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Thu Jan 19 22:21:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8996EF12-897D-11DA-8E21-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Albert Einstein is reputed to have said, "If you can't explain it to an eight year old you don't understand it yourself." Note "reputed". I may be wrong here but I seem to recall the distinction between chert and chalcedony being that the microstructure of chalcedony is rod-like while that of chert is globular. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton Canada still but only just barely. On Friday, January 20, 2006, at 01:19 AM, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > Great post! > > I too am constantly looking for ways to explain complicated things in > lay terms. > > IMHO those who truly "know their stuff" can make most things easily > understandable to most people. > > Thanks Homer! > > Glenn > > > > > > From: "Homer Eshbaugh" bombastus@worldnet.att.net > > I, too, am constantly looking for mineral definitions put in > layman's terms. So much info is couched in scientific terms that > defy my understanding, having no background in geology or > mineralogy. I did have a chemistry minor in college, so I recognize > the symbols of the atomic elements (NaCl means one atom sodium, one > atom chlorine), but that's not very helpful when all I need to know > is "what is it?" (the answer, as you no doubt know, is "salt", as in > table salt). > > I, too, had a hard time understanding the various quartz forms and > varieties. I did lots of digging on the internet, and I think I > finally got it straight. (If I make any mistakes in the discussion > below, I hope the real gurus will correct me.) > > QUARTZ - silicon > dioxide, Soil. Any mineral made up of Soil, > therefore, is quartz. However, quartz comes in a whole passel of > varieties. Many of these varieties have there own names. > > MACROCRYSTALLINE / MICROCRYSTALLINE - these are scientific terms > that describe one physical aspect of a mineral. MACROcrystalline > means that the individual crystals are big enough to be seem with > the naked eye. MICROcrystalline means that individual crystals are > TOO SMALL to be seen with the naked eye. > > What I always think of as "Quartz" is, more technically speaking, > MACROcrystalline quartz. So far as I know, when someone speaks of > quartz, they normally mean mac rocrystaline quartz. > MICROocrystalline quartz looks nothing like the big, beautiful > quartz crystals of macrocrystalline quartz. It is massive, i.e., > comes in a big, solid lump. > > CHALCEDONY - technically > speaking, any MICROcrystalline quartz is > termed "Chalcedony". Its chemical formula is still SiO2, so > chemically, chalcedony and "quartz" are absolutely identical. > > > PATTERNED - displaying a distinctive pattern. As with any other > > CHRYSOPRASE - chalcedony with no pattern and an apple-green color. > > GREEN AGATE - a trade name. There are even more trade names for the > > > Homer, a long time lurker. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > Download today's top songs at MSN Music from artists like U2, Eminem, > & Kelly Clarkson > ------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From gene at fossilnut.com Fri Jan 20 03:19:40 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Fri Jan 20 03:19:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? References: <77B48BFE-8926-11DA-B645-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> <43CFF8BA.8090203@frii.com> <002501c61d7a$e0539ef0$aa98490c@HHEPC> Message-ID: <004d01c61db3$683f53d0$6400a8c0@hppav> Hi Homer: Just want to note that "soil" is a mixture of all sorts of stuff, including silicon dioxide, but also including clays, organic material and who knows what. A much more pure form that everyone is familiar with is the super white sand used in kid's sandboxes. Some natural sand sources are well over 99.9% silicon dioxide once the organic debris and some fine clay are washed out. Such sand deposits are often used to make glass. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Homer Eshbaugh" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? > Don - >.) > > QUARTZ - silicon dioxide, Soil. Any mineral made up of Soil, therefore, > is quartz. However, quartz comes in a whole passel of varieties. Many of > these varieties have there own names. > >lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bombastus at worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 20 04:32:10 2006 From: bombastus at worldnet.att.net (Homer Eshbaugh) Date: Fri Jan 20 04:32:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? References: <77B48BFE-8926-11DA-B645-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca><43CFF8BA.8090203@frii.com> <002501c61d7a$e0539ef0$aa98490c@HHEPC> <004d01c61db3$683f53d0$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: <000901c61dbd$89eb4700$ba98490c@HHEPC> Quite right. I'm sorry about the "Soil" reference. That was supposed to be "SiO2". Unfortunately the spellchecker "helped" me, and the note accidentally got posted before I could catch the error. Thanks for pointing it out. Homer - Original Message ----- From: "EUGENE HARTSTEIN" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 5:19 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? > Hi Homer: > Just want to note that "soil" is a mixture of all sorts of stuff, > including silicon dioxide, but also including clays, organic material and > who knows what. A much more pure form that everyone is familiar with is > the super white sand used in kid's sandboxes. Some natural sand sources > are well over 99.9% silicon dioxide once the organic debris and some fine > clay are washed out. Such sand deposits are often used to make glass. > > Gene Hartstein > Newark, DE > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Homer Eshbaugh" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:35 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? > > >> Don - >>.) >> >> QUARTZ - silicon dioxide, Soil. Any mineral made up of Soil, therefore, >> is quartz. However, quartz comes in a whole passel of varieties. Many >> of these varieties have there own names. >> >>lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From wikman at hevanet.com Fri Jan 20 05:10:21 2006 From: wikman at hevanet.com (roy wikman) Date: Fri Jan 20 05:10:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spheres Message-ID: <3E12A60C.1080609@hevanet.com> Need someone to cut and polish some yellow lead chrystal.Preferbly in the N.W. Thanks From CRAZYDOVE at aol.com Fri Jan 20 06:13:14 2006 From: CRAZYDOVE at aol.com (CRAZYDOVE@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 20 06:13:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Boom! Message-ID: <128.6c131147.310249fa@aol.com> Uh oh..they're contagious!!! I did some further research online and found that these booms have been heard in other States beside NC. One of lifes mysteries??!!! Jackie In a message dated 1/20/2006 12:38:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, pawpawtiger@hotmail.com writes: We experienced a big widespread boom here on the northern gulf coast near Mobile, Alabama today around 2:30 PM. Local news media reported it tonight as still from an unknown source. No confirmed sonic booms, refinery or other explosions, nor registered earth tremors. The sky was very clear. It was a single big shock with no others...not a long "roll". And it was felt over a couple of big counties. At least one warehouse had items fall off shelves. Cool! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Fri Jan 20 06:47:59 2006 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Fri Jan 20 06:48:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] green agate Message-ID: <20060120144759.OQSJ11466.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Dear rockhoounds: Don' t forget that aside from the Ni-Cu crystocrystalline quartz species, iron in the form of Fe+++ and Fe++ color jasper red, orange and dark green. Altho"' the dark green varieties are termed chert, along with flint, I've seen some beautiful cabs made from the material, that have the toughness and look of jade. EJW From albalmer at att.net Fri Jan 20 07:35:29 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Jan 20 07:35:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? In-Reply-To: <002501c61d7a$e0539ef0$aa98490c@HHEPC> References: <77B48BFE-8926-11DA-B645-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> <43CFF8BA.8090203@frii.com> <002501c61d7a$e0539ef0$aa98490c@HHEPC> Message-ID: <43D10341.6070804@att.net> Homer Eshbaugh wrote: A good summary of quartz terminology. I'd just add a note that the term "Onyx" is often (mis)used for other things. The jewelry trade calls a solid colored black chalcedony "onyx". The color is usually artificial, although black chalcedony does exist and polishes up to a very pretty stone. Also, you'll sometimes see banded marble called "onyx", maybe because of a similarity in appearance to sardonyx. From Cycadwood at aol.com Fri Jan 20 07:42:39 2006 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Fri Jan 20 07:42:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad for Agate book Message-ID: <142.54fa5d26.31025eef@aol.com> With all this talk about Quartz, I thought I'd offer my last copy of this book to one of you. Quartz: decoding messages from inside the earth. I was able to get several extra copies of this first edition, limited edition (only 1,000 hard cover copies printed) lovely and interesting new book. Written by Harold Dibble, copyrighted in 2002. Here is how it reads on the inside flap of the dust jacket: ? This book breaks new ground in several ways. The internal structure of quartz crystals are covered as well as its external forms. It describes many forms of quartz crystals that have not been covered in previous books. The CD, which is included, is an educational tool beyond anything that has been used before. It clearly illustrates the internal atomic arrangements and growth mechanisms in a manner that the two-dimensional pages of a book cannot. The specimens used in the book were not selected merely for their beauty, but for their unique qualities.? The 178 photographs are very well done by such top-notch photographers as Jeff Scovil and Rainer Bode. The format is 8 ? by 11 with 100 pages plus the Java Applet CD. List price is $55. My price is $47.50 (one left) I also have petrified wood specimens for sale. Email me off-list and I will send you a listing. Thanks, Frank Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com_ (mailto:publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com) 970.242.5255 cell 970.216.9641 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Ferns, Cones, and Cycads and the soon to be released Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Fri Jan 20 09:52:14 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Fri Jan 20 09:53:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43D1234E.2050004@hal-pc.org> Glenn Wimpee wrote: >Great post! > >I too am constantly looking for ways to explain complicated things in lay terms. > >IMHO those who truly "know their stuff" can make most things easily understandable to most people. > >Thanks Homer! > >Glenn > > > > > >From: "Homer Eshbaugh" bombastus@worldnet.att.net > >I, too, am constantly looking for mineral definitions put in >layman's terms. So much info is couched in scientific terms that >defy my understanding, having no background in geology or >mineralogy. I did have a chemistry minor in college, so I recognize >the symbols of the atomic elements (NaCl means one atom sodium, one >atom chlorine), but that's not very helpful when all I need to know >is "what is it?" (the answer, as you no doubt know, is "salt", as in >table salt). > > > ... >Homer, a long time lurker. > > > > Like Carbon, Silicon is one of those elements that characterize the phenomenal range of characteristics of this world. Its chemistry begins with the capacity of a valence from +4 to -4 and a basic tetragonal unit cell. In other words silicon presents a flexible little pyramid to the chemical world. It can form compounds with metals and non-metals in a far-ranging and even bewildering varieties of form and substance. It can form crystalline solid compounds that are sheets of rings, spirals, simple tetragonal and hexagonal solids, rhombs, and even amorphous solids. In fact, I don't think that there are any of the crystalline classes that do not have a natural silicon compound representative. It can also mimic Carbon in producing "organic" compounds like rubber, oil, and plastics. Silicon Dioxide is the chemical compound that is the mineral Quartz. But it is also the compound of the amorphous mineral Obsidian (and glass), and the various forms of crypto-, micro-, and macro-crystalline substances that also are "minerals" loosely called "quartz". I think that historically and technically the mineral "Quartz" is the pseudo-tetragonal hexagonal crystalline form known as "Rock Crystal" (and all its colored variants like Cairngorm, Amethyst, Citrine and Prase). Micro-crystalline quartz is still quartz; it's just that the crystals are exceedingly small (drusy) or microscopic. They can still be discerned, even if a microscope is needed to do so. Crypto-crystalline "quartz" is Silicon Dioxide, but with crystals too small to be recorded by microscope. And they may not show any evident external crystalline form, like opals. Since Silicon Dioxide is virtually everywhere, and since it reacts so readily with its environment, the crypto-crystalline form exists in a more-or-less continuous series of gradation from very heavily included to virtually pure. Inclusions can be almost anything from fine ( micro or colloidal) clays to oxides of all kinds, organic remains, water, and metals. There are no hard or fast rules separating varieties. Start with "chert" as the most included, progress to "flint", then "jasper", then "chalcedony". Pure Chalcedony is clear or with a slightly bluish cast. Strangely enough, the conchoidal fracture which is typical of the "quartzes" is difficult in chalcedony and easier as one progresses down through jasper to chert. It is easy in flint (and obsidian), but manages only a sub-conchoidal form in chert. Agate is chalcedony with various inclusions and differing modes of formation but usually by means of water solution and deposition. Sometimes the forms are layered (fortification or banded), sometimes not (plumed, pom-pom, snake- or tiger-skin, Montana river, moss, etc). Sometimes agate forms in association with crystals (geodes) and sometimes not (thundereggs). The coloring and shaping of the crypto-form depends upon what and how much is in the water with the silica at the time. Lucky for us there is a virtual endless variety. Unluckily it makes for strange and confusing nomenclature. Location and "type" are the usual ways of naming. And there are lots of those. Opal is also crypto-crystalline Silicon Dioxide, but the included layering is of the order of atoms. Similar is Fire Agate which is chalcedony with very thin layers of iron oxide included, though the layers are not nearly as thin as those in opal. Sheen and Rainbow obsidians are amorphous Silicon Dioxide with very fine parallel crystal inclusions (rutile or chrystostile or ?). Tigereye is a quartz pseudomorph of crocidolite asbestos. Sheen obsidians will show flow lines whereas Tigereye will not. Because silica will dissolve in water so "easily" it can act over a long period of time to replace other substances. That's how petrified wood and dinosaur bone (agate?) is formed. Whole forests that have been covered with volcanic ash (rhyolite) have been converted this way, as in Petrified Forest National Park in Arizona. But the process does not require an ash covering; wood is being petrified all the time wherever it is buried in a place with silica in the water. I would guess that the confusion over "green quartz" arises from its use as a substitute for Chrysoberyl, one of whose varieties is alexandrite. Chrysoprase is chalcedony colored by colloidal nickel. Prase is (macro?)-crystalline, and nearly the same thing only less translucent. This according to the GIA Handbook of Gem Identification. Incidentally, Silicon will form a tetragonal solid which is the equivalent of diamond in Carbon, but it is at too high an energy level to be stable in our world. It would be quite something, probably a very heavy and very hard diamantine substance with an incredible index of refraction. Hope that adds to the confusion. john From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Fri Jan 20 11:26:30 2006 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Fri Jan 20 11:29:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] green agate References: <20060120144759.OQSJ11466.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <005001c61df7$c0eef050$be4027c4@privatehome> Hi everyone, Today whilst clearing my "rock study", I came across about 30 genuine green agates which we had found some 30 odd years ago on an alluvial diamond digging between Bloemhof and Schweizer Reneke (in the old province of "Transvaal" - now North West Province of South Africa.) They were mainly tumblng size, with the biggest being about an inch across. When cut in half, they showed a green and yellow banding, but green being the major colour. Regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 4:47 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] green agate > Dear rockhoounds: Don' t forget that aside from the Ni-Cu > crystocrystalline quartz species, iron in the form of Fe+++ and Fe++ color > jasper red, orange and dark green. Altho"' the dark green varieties are > termed chert, along with flint, I've seen some beautiful cabs made from > the material, that have the toughness and look of jade. EJW > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From efkern at earthlink.net Fri Jan 20 11:55:21 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Fri Jan 20 11:55:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] green agate References: <20060120144759.OQSJ11466.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> <005001c61df7$c0eef050$be4027c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <000301c61dfb$73616f80$1992b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Horst, Would you say they are chrysoprase or agate assuming there is a distinction? Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horst Windisch" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] green agate Hi everyone, Today whilst clearing my "rock study", I came across about 30 genuine green agates which we had found some 30 odd years ago on an alluvial diamond digging between Bloemhof and Schweizer Reneke (in the old province of "Transvaal" - now North West Province of South Africa.) They were mainly tumblng size, with the biggest being about an inch across. When cut in half, they showed a green and yellow banding, but green being the major colour. Regards, Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 4:47 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] green agate > Dear rockhoounds: Don' t forget that aside from the Ni-Cu > crystocrystalline quartz species, iron in the form of Fe+++ and Fe++ color > jasper red, orange and dark green. Altho"' the dark green varieties are > termed chert, along with flint, I've seen some beautiful cabs made from > the material, that have the toughness and look of jade. EJW > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Jan 20 12:03:10 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Jan 20 12:03:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Agate, Quartz, chalcedony and the EPA Message-ID: <20060120200310.59573.qmail@web34608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi All: Don, agate and chalcedony are called cryptocrystalline quartz sometimes, which means they are as hard as a quartz crystal, but the crystalline structure is invisible or hidden. Macrocrystalline Quartz is the stuff from Arkansas with edges, points and a pattern it follows. As the atoms fill that pattern, the crystal takes the shape mandated by the pattern. Quartz crystals can be any size, but if you can't see them even with an optical microscope, it's agate (if a pattern of color shows) or chalcedony if the color is evenly spread thru the material. I'm with the other guys, I don't like it when the stone is dyed. On a different topic: Folks, when I was a boy in the 1950s, my Dad would sometimes take me from Beckley, a rural coal town in the mountains about 60 miles south of the Kanawha Valley, down to Charleston, the state capitol and an industrial city, especially back then. The highway passed through a tunnel, and when you came out of the tunnel, just a few miles from the valley, the air was yellow. I can't really describe the smell, but it was bad. There were glass factorys, chemical plants, steel mills, foundries, forges, oil and gas wells, brine operations, and if you fell in the river, it could kill you. Literally, dead. Now people water ski and go boating in that same river! The improvements in the environment since then are almost unbelievable. The idea that people were forced to live and work in conditions that were so unhealthy as to kill people is hard to grasp. But that is how it was. We have the EPA to thank for the fact that almost nowhere in the US will just breathing the air or drinking the water provided by the local water company cause severe health problems for innocent bystanders. This doesn't happen because everyone voluntarily has stopped emitting poisons into the environment. The government makes them stop, and if they won't the government makes it hard on them. In my state, wv've seen a state senator, an engineer, arrested for pumping raw sewage from his rental property into a sinkhole/cave system to save a buck operating his treatment plant. What was he thinking? Clean air and water is under continuous attack from new sources of pollution every day. Right now game fish in WV (bass, I think mostly) are hatching with sexual abnormalities. There is some suspicion that antibiotics or hormonal analogues from poultery farm runoff is causing it. The water these fish grow up in flows downstream to become someone's drinking water. I'm a little tired of seeing environmental workers disparaged every day on this list. They could in every case make more money by using their scientific skills to work for industry trying to make processes less expensive by discharging waste into the air, water or underground instead of working to protect people from their own waste. Having said all that, sure there are gov't employees who aren't doing a great job. There are folks who try to take the easy way out. I run into them every day, trying to get the job done efficiently. They are always the enemy of efficiency, preferring immobility because it is easy and less threatening. Forest service staff who regard horses as impact free and rockhounds as a walking environmental accident. But don't blame environmental principles for individual failings. It isn't the EPA's fault that some people are... what's the word I'm looking for... are buttheads, that's a good not quite obscene word. They occur in every group. In the rockhound community, these are the folks who take everything and leave a big mess for the next group of rockhounds to clean up. The folks from the Health Department and from the Division of Water Quality just want to help keep YOUR streams clean, and provide YOU with clean water to drink, fish in, swim in and boat on. Surely no one on this list wants dirty water for their kids to drink? It doesn't get cleaned up by itself! ...sorry for the rant, but, come on, ranking on environmental and government workers in every post gets old after awhile. Many of the most helpful and frequent contributers and question answers on this list work of one government agency or the other. Thanks, JR J. R. Hodel Information Systems Manager II Information Technology Office, WV Dept. of Environmental Protection 601 57th Street S.E. Charleston, WV 25304 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Fri Jan 20 15:27:46 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Fri Jan 20 15:27:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] green agate References: <20060120144759.OQSJ11466.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> <005001c61df7$c0eef050$be4027c4@privatehome> Message-ID: <001e01c61e19$1eeef3f0$259e5a40@marilyn> I recently bought a condor agate at Quartzite it has definite green bands with other colors. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horst Windisch" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:26 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] green agate > Hi everyone, > > Today whilst clearing my "rock study", I came across about 30 genuine > green agates which we had found some 30 odd years ago on an alluvial > diamond digging between Bloemhof and Schweizer Reneke (in the old province > of "Transvaal" - now North West Province of South Africa.) They were > mainly tumblng size, with the biggest being about an inch across. When cut > in half, they showed a green and yellow banding, but green being the major > colour. > > Regards, > Horst > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 4:47 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] green agate > > >> Dear rockhoounds: Don' t forget that aside from the Ni-Cu >> crystocrystalline quartz species, iron in the form of Fe+++ and Fe++ >> color jasper red, orange and dark green. Altho"' the dark green varieties >> are termed chert, along with flint, I've seen some beautiful cabs made >> from the material, that have the toughness and look of jade. EJW >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From smtravis at plateautel.net Fri Jan 20 15:29:35 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Fri Jan 20 15:29:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad for Agate book References: <142.54fa5d26.31025eef@aol.com> Message-ID: <002b01c61e19$5fc80ec0$259e5a40@marilyn> Iam interested do you have any prior takers. Steve Travis ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:42 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad for Agate book With all this talk about Quartz, I thought I'd offer my last copy of this book to one of you. Quartz: decoding messages from inside the earth. I was able to get several extra copies of this first edition, limited edition (only 1,000 hard cover copies printed) lovely and interesting new book. Written by Harold Dibble, copyrighted in 2002. Here is how it reads on the inside flap of the dust jacket: ? This book breaks new ground in several ways. The internal structure of quartz crystals are covered as well as its external forms. It describes many forms of quartz crystals that have not been covered in previous books. The CD, which is included, is an educational tool beyond anything that has been used before. It clearly illustrates the internal atomic arrangements and growth mechanisms in a manner that the two-dimensional pages of a book cannot. The specimens used in the book were not selected merely for their beauty, but for their unique qualities.? The 178 photographs are very well done by such top-notch photographers as Jeff Scovil and Rainer Bode. The format is 8 ? by 11 with 100 pages plus the Java Applet CD. List price is $55. My price is $47.50 (one left) I also have petrified wood specimens for sale. Email me off-list and I will send you a listing. Thanks, Frank Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com_ (mailto:publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com) 970.242.5255 cell 970.216.9641 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Ferns, Cones, and Cycads and the soon to be released Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From webmaster at rockhoundstation1.com Sat Jan 21 11:29:59 2006 From: webmaster at rockhoundstation1.com (Sally) Date: Sat Jan 21 11:30:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Anyone In Boise Area Cut Rocks? Message-ID: <009101c61ec1$1203acf0$96dffe04@FREEDOM> Hi rockhounds -- I am wondering if there is anyone in the Boise, Idaho area that cuts rocks -- I have some I am dying to get to. If you do, please email me with your pricing and some way to contact you. Appreciate it greatly. Sal Sally Taylor webmaster@rockhoundstation1.com http://www.rockhoundstation1.com Your Global Rockhound Center --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Sat Jan 21 14:28:00 2006 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Sat Jan 21 14:28:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tumbling and Obsidian Message-ID: <20060121222800.94079.qmail@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> About 30 years ago, I bought my daugher a Lortone tumbler. We used it for a few years and then it was idle for about 20+. About 3 years ago, I took the hobby back up. The tumbler needed some parts so I went online to look. Was I surprised that they were still in business. I would recommend Lortone to anyone that would be interested. The originl machine is still working great. I obtained some Obisidian chips. The first batch of tumbled ones have just finished but I was really disappointed in the outcome. They came out with a "cloudy" look instead of a high shine. I used plastic pellets also in all the changes. Each grit also had their own pellets so there was no left-over grit in the changes. I have another bach starting now. What suggestions would you have or what might I have done to cause the "cloudy" look? Thanks for your help June Young --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Sat Jan 21 17:01:18 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Jan 21 17:01:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tumbling and Obsidian In-Reply-To: <20060121222800.94079.qmail@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060121222800.94079.qmail@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060121165606.0254fe50@orerockon.com> I would suggest a different material for your first try at tumbling. Obsidian is notoriously hard to get a good finish with in a rotary tumbler; most people who tumble a lot of obsidian use a vibratory tumbler instead. Plastic pellets are not a good media for tumbling obsidian; rubber shreds such as shredded recycled tires are much better, as are other media i.e. walnut shells. I suggest you re-run the 500F grit and polish steps with proper media. A Google search will get you much advice about tumbling obsidian; for me it is not worth the effort necessary to get good results so I have been using a vibratory tumbler for many years. At 02:28 PM 1/21/2006, you wrote: >About 30 years ago, I bought my daugher a Lortone tumbler. We used >it for a few years and then it was idle for about 20+. About 3 >years ago, I took the hobby back up. The tumbler needed some parts >so I went online to look. Was I surprised that they were still in >business. I would recommend Lortone to anyone that would be >interested. The originl machine is still working great. > I obtained some Obisidian chips. The first batch of tumbled ones > have just finished but I was really disappointed in the > outcome. They came out with a "cloudy" look instead of a high > shine. I used plastic pellets also in all the changes. Each grit > also had their own pellets so there was no left-over grit in the > changes. I have another bach starting now. What suggestions would > you have or what might I have done to cause the "cloudy" look? > Thanks for your help > June Young Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 21 20:26:47 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 21 20:26:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tumbling and Obsidian References: <20060121222800.94079.qmail@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43D30985.6707@Tomaszewski.net> June, Obsidian is a tough rock to get a good polish on in a tumbler. You will probably get lots of different (and probably conflicting) opinions on how to be successful. If you did not use an alumina prepolish you might want to go back to a few days of fine, use prepolish, and polish again. I would suggest giving up on the plastic pellets and use walnut shells or dryer lint for filler instead. Or bring two batches to ready to polish and combine them for polish so you don't need to use a filler. You might find that cerium oxide gives a better polish than rouge. Check your polish daily. Overpolishing obsidian will cause it to get dull. When your polish is done, put in a bit of soap (like Tide) with the polish and run it a couple more hours. Clean it, and run it with just water and soap for another couple hours. Kreigh June Young wrote: > > About 30 years ago, I bought my daugher a Lortone tumbler. We used it for a few years and then it was idle for about 20+. About 3 years ago, I took the hobby back up. The tumbler needed some parts so I went online to look. Was I surprised that they were still in business. I would recommend Lortone to anyone that would be interested. The originl machine is still working great. > I obtained some Obisidian chips. The first batch of tumbled ones have just finished but I was really disappointed in the outcome. They came out with a "cloudy" look instead of a high shine. I used plastic pellets also in all the changes. Each grit also had their own pellets so there was no left-over grit in the changes. I have another bach starting now. What suggestions would you have or what might I have done to cause the "cloudy" look? > Thanks for your help > June Young From rocks4u at prodigy.net Sat Jan 21 20:45:15 2006 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Sat Jan 21 20:50:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tumbling and Obsidian References: <20060121222800.94079.qmail@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <43D30985.6707@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <016701c61f0e$a3f1e4e0$8d27fea9@WesMedion1918> One of the biggest problems with Obsidian ( and by far not the only one) is the fact that it is volcanic glass with a wide range of quality. By that I mean purity and structure. I've come across some Obsidian that would not surrender to polishing under any circumstance. It has a tendency to craze and pit from the slightest contact. It is very sensitive to heat, especially when polishing it as a sphere or Cabochon. Sometimes the structure of the internal crystals are so loosely bound that they practically fall out of place. It takes a lot of practice and patience to work with Obsidian. I suggest working with agates, or Jasper, or even Petrified wood....anything but Obsidian! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tumbling and Obsidian > June, > > Obsidian is a tough rock to get a good polish on in a tumbler. You will > probably get lots of different (and probably conflicting) opinions on > how to be successful. > > If you did not use an alumina prepolish you might want to go back to a > few days of fine, use prepolish, and polish again. > > I would suggest giving up on the plastic pellets and use walnut shells > or dryer lint for filler instead. Or bring two batches to ready to > polish and combine them for polish so you don't need to use a filler. > > You might find that cerium oxide gives a better polish than rouge. Check > your polish daily. Overpolishing obsidian will cause it to get dull. > > When your polish is done, put in a bit of soap (like Tide) with the > polish and run it a couple more hours. Clean it, and run it with just > water and soap for another couple hours. > > Kreigh From dnorris at frii.com Sat Jan 21 22:46:44 2006 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Sat Jan 21 22:46:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? References: <77B48BFE-8926-11DA-B645-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> <43CFF8BA.8090203@frii.com> <002501c61d7a$e0539ef0$aa98490c@HHEPC> Message-ID: <43D32A54.7050005@frii.com> Thanks, Homer, very good information. Don Norris From bombastus at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 22 00:44:26 2006 From: bombastus at worldnet.att.net (Homer Eshbaugh) Date: Sun Jan 22 00:44:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? References: <77B48BFE-8926-11DA-B645-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> <43CFF8BA.8090203@frii.com><002501c61d7a$e0539ef0$aa98490c@HHEPC> <43D32A54.7050005@frii.com> Message-ID: <001001c61f30$0db22db0$8599490c@HHEPC> Don - You're quite welcome, I hope it helped. As I said, I'm certainly no expert, and I tell from some of the other replies that I will have to look further into what constitutes Chert. By the way, I hope you noticed that, in the section headed "QUARTZ", my spell checker changed SiO2 to Soil - and I accidentally posted the note before I could correct this. Hope that makes more sense than "silicon dioxide, Soil"! Is my face is ever red! ( :-) Homer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Norris" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 12:46 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? > Thanks, Homer, very good information. Don Norris > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From MCGINNISG at aol.com Sun Jan 22 00:49:01 2006 From: MCGINNISG at aol.com (MCGINNISG@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 22 00:49:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Iridescent or Chatoyant Apache Tears Message-ID: <1c0.38cc3950.3104a0fd@aol.com> This last summer I got to see a very interesting and beautiful necklace. The center stone was a faceted Apache Tear; the side stones were Iridescent or Chatoyant Apache Tear cabochons. The faceted was stone large, maybe 20-25 carats or so and surprisingly pleasing with a beautiful clear dark gray color that really flashed. The side stones almost looked like black moonstones that were absolutely stunning. Everything was set in very ornate silver. In all, a very remarkable piece. The stone were said to be from Nevada. Has anyone else seen anything like these??? Timm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapidry at aol.com Sun Jan 22 05:18:00 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 22 05:18:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Iridescent or Chatoyant Apache Tears Message-ID: <64.64554aaa.3104e008@aol.com> In a message dated 1/22/2006 3:49:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, MCGINNISG@aol.com writes: This last summer I got to see a very interesting and beautiful necklace. The center stone was a faceted Apache Tear; the side stones were Iridescent or Chatoyant Apache Tear cabochons. The faceted was stone large, maybe 20-25 carats or so and surprisingly pleasing with a beautiful clear dark gray color that really flashed. The side stones almost looked like black moonstones that were absolutely stunning. Everything was set in very ornate silver. In all, a very remarkable piece. The stone were said to be from Nevada. Has anyone else seen anything like these??? Timm Timm: What you are describing for chatoyancy is probably silver or gold sheen obsidian, maybe rainbow - which is very moonstone-like and occurs in several colors, such as purple, blue and green. I'd almost have to see the necklace. I've never seen these properties in actual Apache Tears but, since they are nothing more than obsidian nodules, once cut, there's not much to prove they were ever Apache Tears. As for the faceted Apache Tear, yes, many facetors, especially beginners, like to cut Apache Tears because they will very often be exceptionally clear, for obsidian. It's this property that would make me question that the side stones are Apache Tears as opposed to regular obsidian. Apache Tears are also quite cheap and usually available in pieces that could easily cut a 20-25 carat stone. It's usually not hard to find a piece for around a dollar or two at rock shows or shops with the little rock displays tucked in a corner. The necklace you are describing sounds quite attractive and, except for the silver work, within the budget of an average lapidarist. If I were to bet though, without seeing the necklace, it was all obsidian with the cabochons being either rainbow or sheen and the faceted center piece being the Apache Tear. Thanks for adding a project to my "Someday" list. It does sound interesting. Good post!!! Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Sun Jan 22 08:29:22 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Jan 22 08:29:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Iridescent or Chatoyant Apache Tears In-Reply-To: <64.64554aaa.3104e008@aol.com> References: <64.64554aaa.3104e008@aol.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060122082712.02686b40@orerockon.com> They are cats-eye Apache tears, which are chatoyant. I have dug them in extreme north-western Nevada. There are descriptions that can be found using Google describing these. At 05:18 AM 1/22/2006, you wrote: > >Timm: > >What you are describing for chatoyancy is probably silver or gold sheen >obsidian, maybe rainbow - which is very moonstone-like and occurs in several >colors, such as purple, blue and green. I'd almost have to see the >necklace. I've >never seen these properties in actual Apache Tears but, since they are >nothing more than obsidian nodules, once cut, there's not much to >prove they were >ever Apache Tears. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From hammerron at yahoo.com Sun Jan 22 11:29:30 2006 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sun Jan 22 11:29:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloging a mineral collection Message-ID: <20060122192930.37094.qmail@web81411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> There are many ways to keep the mineral specimens that you collect. I thought I'd share how I catalog my own personal collection. The info is at: http://hammerron.com/minerals/cataloging.htm Comments? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Jan 22 16:10:19 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Jan 22 16:10:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson accomodations Message-ID: <141d01c61fb1$65a74010$6602a8c0@remains> Hello I have shortened my Tucson trip this year by a few days, and as a result I have a hotel accomodation that I will only be using part of. The original reservation was from January 27th to Feb 10th, and I will only be needing the reservation from Feb 3 to the 9th. So, if there is anyone out there needing a hotel right in the middle of the action from Jan 27th to Feb 2, and/or a single night on Feb 9th, you are more than welcome to my reservation. I plan on calling the hotel within a few days to cancel the days I don't need...so if someone out there would like them, I can probably just have the name changed on that portion of the reservation. The rate is about $130 per night......It is a standard room with 2 queen size beds. If anyone out there needs it, please let me know before Wednesday thanks Michael --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From info at wisdomofstones.com Sun Jan 22 16:41:40 2006 From: info at wisdomofstones.com (Wisdom of Stones) Date: Sun Jan 22 16:40:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Unpolished stone rings In-Reply-To: <141d01c61fb1$65a74010$6602a8c0@remains> Message-ID: Does anyone know where I can buy unpolished stone rings for fingers? Would prefer beach stones but am interested in any kind right now as I've yet to see any. thanks, jennifer From ronalds at suite224.net Sun Jan 22 16:04:14 2006 From: ronalds at suite224.net (Ronald Schanfish) Date: Sun Jan 22 18:00:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson accomodations References: <141d01c61fb1$65a74010$6602a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <002a01c61fb0$ef7a1b60$755b0248@ronalds> Michael, I could use the one day reservation on the ninth.. Ron Schanfish ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schmidt" To: Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:10 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Tucson accomodations Hello I have shortened my Tucson trip this year by a few days, and as a result I have a hotel accomodation that I will only be using part of. The original reservation was from January 27th to Feb 10th, and I will only be needing the reservation from Feb 3 to the 9th. So, if there is anyone out there needing a hotel right in the middle of the action from Jan 27th to Feb 2, and/or a single night on Feb 9th, you are more than welcome to my reservation. I plan on calling the hotel within a few days to cancel the days I don't need...so if someone out there would like them, I can probably just have the name changed on that portion of the reservation. The rate is about $130 per night......It is a standard room with 2 queen size beds. If anyone out there needs it, please let me know before Wednesday thanks Michael --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jan 22 19:39:15 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jan 22 19:39:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Uploaded Troost mineral photos Message-ID: <003d01c61fce$95f56810$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I've uploaded a few photos of Franklin and Sterling Hill spinel specimens from the Troost collection on www.mindat.org. These specimens were collected between 1815 and 1840. I've got other images from Orange Co., NY, Tennessee, Germany, Italy, etc. to post as my time allows. Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Bobslgn at aol.com Sun Jan 22 19:48:25 2006 From: Bobslgn at aol.com (Bobslgn@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 22 19:48:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Iridescent or Chatoyant Apache Tears Message-ID: Some years ago, while in the Davis creek, Ca. area we stopped to check our maps and let the kids out of the car for a stretch. As it happens we stopped next to a float area, which was covered with obsidian spheres of all sorts and sizes. Many were very weathered with cracks and chips. It was difficult to tell when we picked them up, but after tumbling, we discovered some were indeed silver and other colors of sheen obsidian. After reading about some of the suggestions for tumbling obsidian I long to go back and pick up a pound or so. Thanks, Bob --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dnorris at frii.com Sun Jan 22 20:24:24 2006 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Sun Jan 22 20:24:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Green Agate? References: <77B48BFE-8926-11DA-B645-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> <43CFF8BA.8090203@frii.com><002501c61d7a$e0539ef0$aa98490c@HHEPC> <43D32A54.7050005@frii.com> <001001c61f30$0db22db0$8599490c@HHEPC> Message-ID: <43D45A78.7050705@frii.com> Hi Homer, it did make take a double take, but then figured it out. Thanks again, Don RockWraps.com From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Sun Jan 22 20:03:50 2006 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Mon Jan 23 00:11:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unpolished stone rings Message-ID: <20060123040350.HIAI29035.ibm71aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Dear Jennifer: Some natural things make nice rings, bracelets, or other body were: I'n reminded of the movie Mondo Cane where a New Guinea native withdrew the long bone inserted thru his septum, picked his teeth with it, then put the instrument/jerelry back into its showplace. Bone, some types of hair and fibers make suitable rings, given that it has been weathered properly. Most rock is hard and rough,and like metal, requires shaping and polishing. Even soft stuff. like serpentine, needs some work..EJW From info at wisdomofstones.com Mon Jan 23 05:26:13 2006 From: info at wisdomofstones.com (Wisdom of Stones) Date: Mon Jan 23 05:26:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unpolished stone rings In-Reply-To: <20060123040350.HIAI29035.ibm71aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Hi Edward, As always, you're a wealth of information. I'd forgotten about bone, so thanks for the reminder. As for stone needing shaping and some polishing, I think I realize this but didn't think about it or note it in my email. I'm find with light polishing to remove the rough edges, etc. I don't want it polished to a shine but instead would like it to look as much in it's natural state as possible. It's like wanting a ring made by a caveman :-) any ideas? jennifer -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:04 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unpolished stone rings Dear Jennifer: Some natural things make nice rings, bracelets, or other body were: I'n reminded of the movie Mondo Cane where a New Guinea native withdrew the long bone inserted thru his septum, picked his teeth with it, then put the instrument/jerelry back into its showplace. Bone, some types of hair and fibers make suitable rings, given that it has been weathered properly. Most rock is hard and rough,and like metal, requires shaping and polishing. Even soft stuff. like serpentine, needs some work..EJW _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 23 07:17:55 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Jan 23 07:17:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloging a mineral collection In-Reply-To: <20060122192930.37094.qmail@web81411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060123151755.49093.qmail@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A very nice write-up. It's quite similar to what I did up until about 6 or 7 years ago. The only difference is in the storage. I don't have a cabinet with drawers, so I used egg cartons in fruit boxes (16 egg cartons fit neatly in a fruit box). Just a few comments: 1. Don't use cotton, especially for any specimen that has small crystals that you might want to look at through a scope. The cotton fibers cling, and are unsightly. Flexible urethane foam is more effective in cushioning, and leaves no fibers. 2. Why not put information about the mineral species, such as hardness, chemical formula, on the species card instead of the specimen card? It would save a lot of writing. 3. Convert to Access as soon as possible. The card file will rapidly become cumbersome. In my case, when my collection got up around 2000 specimens, it was much too hard to manage. And, the longer you wait, the harder it will be to convert! Otherwise, you have a good, well-thought-out system. The card file system would convert almost directly into an Access database, although you might find it easier to have a few other tables, such a a separate one for "Source". I use that table to list contact info for the individual or company from whom I acquired the specimen. Jim Daly --- The Hammer wrote: > There are many ways to keep the mineral specimens > that you collect. I thought I'd share how I catalog > my own personal collection. The info is at: > http://hammerron.com/minerals/cataloging.htm > Comments? > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 23 07:22:13 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Jan 23 07:22:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks & Minerals Magazine References: <20060122192930.37094.qmail@web81411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002501c62030$c9ee6240$2f894c0c@LarryRush> Congratulations to the list's Ronnie Van Dommelen as the author of an excellent article on the Minerals of Nova Scotia in the Jan/Feb issue of Rocks and Minerals. Super work especially when one considers that he is a student in a demanding major. Keep up the good work, Ronnie! Let's all hope that Nova Scotia remains as pristine, open and rewarding to collectors in the future, and not succumb to the population and real-estate pressures so prevalent in the US these days. Larry From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 23 11:27:06 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Jan 23 12:30:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Close-up lens References: <20060122192930.37094.qmail@web81411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002501c62030$c9ee6240$2f894c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <000001c6205b$d65f9960$f4814c0c@LarryRush> Does anybody know where I can get a 55mm close-up lens for the adapter for my Kodak digital camera? Kodak doesn't make one. Thanks very much......Larry From cscrystals2 at verizon.net Mon Jan 23 12:34:06 2006 From: cscrystals2 at verizon.net (Carolyn & Steve Weinberger) Date: Mon Jan 23 12:35:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Close-up lens In-Reply-To: <000001c6205b$d65f9960$f4814c0c@LarryRush> References: <20060122192930.37094.qmail@web81411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002501c62030$c9ee6240$2f894c0c@LarryRush> <000001c6205b$d65f9960$f4814c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <5EB2FEA2-30ED-4352-BD81-8FD669366B99@verizon.net> Larry, Go to a good independent camera store - not a chain like Ritz. Most of these stores carry a good selection of new and used lenses or will be willing to find one for you. C On Jan 23, 2006, at 2:27 PM, Lawrence Rush wrote: > Does anybody know where I can get a 55mm close-up lens for the > adapter for my Kodak digital camera? Kodak doesn't make one. > > Thanks very much......Larry > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Jan 23 13:21:44 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jan 23 13:21:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Close-up lens In-Reply-To: <000001c6205b$d65f9960$f4814c0c@LarryRush> References: <20060122192930.37094.qmail@web81411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002501c62030$c9ee6240$2f894c0c@LarryRush> <000001c6205b$d65f9960$f4814c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: Is that 55mm lens diameter? Is it threaded? If so you can buy one at any photo store. Cokin has a universal lens adapter but I'm not sure if they have close up lenses. Call B&H photo if all else fails. 800-947-9960 BK On 1/23/06, Lawrence Rush wrote: > > Does anybody know where I can get a 55mm close-up lens for the adapter for > my Kodak digital camera? Kodak doesn't make one. > > Thanks very much......Larry > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Mon Jan 23 18:30:15 2006 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Mon Jan 23 18:31:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unpolished rings:Wisdom of Stones Message-ID: <20060124023015.XJVP8357.ibm57aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Dear Jennifer, Soapstone, steatite,and some form or highly weathered (hydrolized) serpentines are hard enough to wear on the hands, and soft enough not to damage the skin. I found some talc from Wood Creek, Canton NC that have small green crystals in between the long silvery fibers. I had forgotten about that bag, but it was a pleasure to hold the silky stuff. I did wash my hands afterwards. Even the crystals were soft. Edward W. From staroleum at yahoo.com Mon Jan 23 19:11:36 2006 From: staroleum at yahoo.com (Staroleum) Date: Mon Jan 23 19:11:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cataloging a mineral collection In-Reply-To: <200601230200.k0N20t4A013996@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20060124031136.15427.qmail@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Hammer, That's a nice system! I enjoyed the rockhounding trip story on your site, too. Sorry to hear about the exhaust system on that Pinto, but it seems like you've taken it in good spirits. By the way, did you ever make it to the Gilette Quarry? I used to live in Connecticut. Now I'm in Oregon, but my niece and nephew are in CT, and sometime this summer I'll visit and maybe be able to take them out rockhounding somewhere. Best, Scott ................. Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:29:30 -0800 (PST) From: The Hammer Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloging a mineral collection There are many ways to keep the mineral specimens that you collect. I thought I'd share how I catalog my own personal collection. The info is at: http://hammerron.com/minerals/cataloging.htm Comments? --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ROCKCURRIER at cs.com Tue Jan 24 01:00:53 2006 From: ROCKCURRIER at cs.com (ROCKCURRIER@cs.com) Date: Tue Jan 24 01:00:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections Message-ID: <2E13185E.1DEBB127.3AEB17FB@cs.com> Paper and pen have a lot going on for them when it comes to cataloguing and labeling specimens. It has tradition that goes back thousands of years and is pretty permanent and won't disappear if your hard drive crashes. However you can't copy your catalogue or labels very easily it is easy and quick to copy them if they are already in the computer and you can print them out by pushing a few buttons. Probably using the computer will take over almost entirely from the old pen and ink systems. If you decide to put your collection on a computer you should also try and find a program that you can use to catalogue your collection, sort it in what ever way you want and to print out labels for your specimens at the same time. After all, if you have gone to the trouble of entering the data about your specimens it doesn't make since that you should have to enter the data again on a label. That is twice the work. If the program has find and replace functions this will cut down a lot on the work you have to do when you have to correct mistakes you made in locality name spellings or to change your locality information to more complete locality information or to change the locality names when they change. (German West Africa, S.W. Africa and finally Namibia. If it automatically imports chemical formulas and prompts you in the entering the correct mineral names and localities this can also be a plus. There should be a provision for recording the cost of the specimen and the value you have estimated for it. At some point your collection will be sold or donated to an institution and this data will be valuable in helping your survivors sell the collection or to help with the tax returns if it is donated. When you write or print your labels, for heaven sakes, use acid free paper or some archival grade of paper and use a heavy kind of paper like card stock. This will make the labels durable. I would recommend printing your labels with a laser printer using a common print font like Times Roman, Bookman or Arial. This way the next generation won't have to try and figure out how to read your labels. Avoid using an ink jet printer if you can and stick with laser jet printers. This way the ink is more or less permanent on the label. Some ink jet printers use ink that will run and smudge if they get a little wet or damp. I would highly recommend that in addition to some sort of display label that you create a small label that you glue directly on the specimen. If the specimen is small, and you can fit nothing else on the label, put the locality on this glue on label. Once the label gets separated from the specimen, it is in jeopardy of becoming an unknown rock and more than likely a candidate for the trash. Fold up paper boxes and egg cartons are OK for temporary storage but in ten or twenty years in your garage they are going to look real dirty and dingy. The more expensive pasteboard boxes with cotton are somewhat better, but unless you put them in a fairly dust proof cabinet, they too will look terrible after a decade or two. When you die, your collection will more than likely fall into the hands of someone who knows little about specimen. This could be your wife, children, a distant relative or even the state. If your collection is arranged in a beautiful wooden cabinet with each specimen in its own little box with a well made printed label, the specimens will look important and valuable. More than anything else this will cause a person to take extra care in disposing of them. I can guarantee you that if you store your collection in egg cartons or fold up boxes in beer flats in your garage, that your heirs will get very little for the collection compared money and effort you have lavished on it and it may be thrown into the dumpster. Often people who don't know about specimens will pack them up into boxes so as to be able to store them in less space. It is typical at that point that the person will gather up all the labels and put them in a separate box or envelope rather than wrapping them up with the specimen. They do this because it is obvious that someone had made a lot of effort to neatly make the labels and wrapping them up with the specimen will bend them all up and degrade them. This is why you need to get labels glued on the specimens. Some years ago there was an article in the Mineralogical Record that recounted a few of the more horrendous things that can happen to mineral specimens and collections after they were in the hands of collectors who supposedly cared about them. From prgilmore at hotmail.com Tue Jan 24 07:45:13 2006 From: prgilmore at hotmail.com (Paul Gilmore) Date: Tue Jan 24 07:45:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline Message-ID: In old material from the Strickland Quarry (a granite pegmatite) in Portland CT, I have found acicular elbaite so fine that it also appeared as a felted mat. Paul Gilmore >From: "Axel Emmermann" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline >Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:12:38 +0100 > >Tourmaline is very strongly dichroic, so strong that it is obvious even to >the naked eye. When the viewing angle approaches the C-axis, green >tourmaline (verdelite or elbaite) may appear almost black as a result of >this. > >Axel > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Alan Goldstein >Verzonden: woensdag 18 januari 2006 20:54 >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline > > >It's pretty widespread. Last summer, I collected acicular elbaite at the >Elizabeth R mine and acicular indicolite at the Blue Lady mine in San Diego >Co., California. Luckily, not everything I found was acicular! The elbaite >was green, brown and purple. > >Alan > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:22 AM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Acicular Tourmaline > > > > Dear rockhounds: > > I've been collecting at a NC mine dump , which is a pegmatite body >termed > > alaskite and tonalite. Schorl is one of the most abundant species found, > > typically in black sprays. I have found "other" tourmaline crystals > > colored green, which I called "green schorl", until some of the academic > > investigators informed me that this had been ID'ed as true green elbaite > > by X ray diffraction analysis from two independent labs. Cool! My >quandry > > is this: the species form not only in the classical tourmaline long, > > striated habits, but also as acicular, pelucic and felted masses. Under > > magnification (10x to 200x), they are observable as individual crystals, > > at times, appearing like dark green felt, punctuated with black streaks. > > Most of this is opaque, but I have seen very clear green, brown and grey > > crystals as well. > > I've searched the literature, which generally refers to the types of > > occurrence, but has not given me a definite answer. So, rockhounds! Has > > anyone, from personal experience, seen this type of habit or color or > > combination in the tourmaline family? I would be very pleased to hear >from > > you. > > Sincerely, Edward J. Wagner > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 24 07:47:47 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Jan 24 07:47:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Close-up lens References: <20060122192930.37094.qmail@web81411.mail.mud.yahoo.com><002501c62030$c9ee6240$2f894c0c@LarryRush> <000001c6205b$d65f9960$f4814c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <001701c620fd$867706c0$828f4c0c@LarryRush> Thanks very much to those people who gave me advice on this question. With your help I was able to find exactly the lens I need and have already bought it. The list is once again invaluable for finding out anything to do with minerals!! Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 2:27 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Close-up lens > Does anybody know where I can get a 55mm close-up lens for the adapter for > my Kodak digital camera? Kodak doesn't make one. > > Thanks very much......Larry > From agate at cox.net Tue Jan 24 09:58:03 2006 From: agate at cox.net (agate@cox.net) Date: Tue Jan 24 10:03:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections Message-ID: <20060124180152.UNAT20441.fed1rmmtao10.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]> > > From: ROCKCURRIER@cs.com > Date: 2006/01/24 Tue AM 04:00:53 EST > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > If you decide to put your collection on a computer you should also try and find a program that you can use to catalogue your collection, sort it in what ever way you want and to print out labels for your specimens at the same time. After all, if you have gone to the trouble of entering the data about your specimens it doesn't make since that you should have to enter the data again on a label. That is twice the work. If the program has find and replace functions this will cut down a lot on ! > the work you have to do when you have to correct mistakes you made in locality name spellings or to change your locality information to more complete locality information or to change the locality names when they change. (German West Africa, S.W. Africa and finally Namibia. Rock: Good article as usual. Do you know of a good program? From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 24 10:41:50 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Jan 24 10:41:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections References: <20060124180152.UNAT20441.fed1rmmtao10.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]> Message-ID: <001101c62115$d6f5a350$a58c4c0c@LarryRush> Most collectors use MS Access, but there are several others out there. One important consideration for database programs is to sure that it is a "relational" database, that is, it can search on any field of all of the records. This allows you to find all records in your collection which meet the criteria you enter in the search field. Ex. find all specimens from Madagascar, or find all specimens of Apatite, find all specimens that cost less than $30, etc. Most of today's programs are relational, but some of the cheaper ones do not use this feature. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > >> >> From: ROCKCURRIER@cs.com >> Date: 2006/01/24 Tue AM 04:00:53 EST >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections >> > If you decide to put your collection on a computer you should also try and > find a program that you can use to catalogue your collection, sort it in > what ever way you want and to print out labels for your specimens at the > same time. After all, if you have gone to the trouble of entering the data > about your specimens it doesn't make since that you should have to enter > the data again on a label. That is twice the work. If the program has find > and replace functions this will cut down a lot on ! >> the work you have to do when you have to correct mistakes you made in >> locality name spellings or to change your locality information to more >> complete locality information or to change the locality names when they >> change. (German West Africa, S.W. Africa and finally Namibia. > > Rock: > > Good article as usual. > > Do you know of a good program? > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From murowchickj at umkc.edu Tue Jan 24 12:01:49 2006 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (James Murowchick) Date: Tue Jan 24 12:02:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <20060124180152.UNAT20441.fed1rmmtao10.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]> Message-ID: asked: > > Do you know of a good program? MS Access seems to be popular for Wintel users. Another very popular one available for both Macs and Wintel platforms is FileMaker Pro (FMP). I've used FileMaker for years for a variety of database projects including our rock and mineral teaching collections, and I'm gradually entering all my own collection info into FMP. I plan to add in photos of key specimens, too (digital, or scanned images). The best thing about using a relational database (as opposed to a spreadsheet like Excel) is that it is very easy to set up different layouts, sort by a field, make global changes, and add all kinds of frills (even movies) if needed. You can quickly make a catalog list, print labels, or find how many cacoxenites you have. You could link a record to a drawing of the crystal structure, or have it call up a web site. Lots of possibilities. The downside is that commercial database software is a little pricey (really no worse that MS Office), but there are low-cost ones available (e.g., mySQL for Unix users (including Mac OS 10 users). Jim Dr. James B. Murowchick Associate Professor, Geology Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 murowchickj@umkc.edu > From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 12:24:00 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 24 12:24:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: References: <20060124180152.UNAT20441.fed1rmmtao10.cox.net@172.18.180.8> Message-ID: Well you can use SQL Server 2005 Express since that is now free from MS. But MS Access is probably fine so long as it will be a single user database. The database route is a roll your own path, I thought there were some catalog apps available. BK On 1/24/06, James Murowchick wrote: > > asked: > > > > Do you know of a good program? > > > MS Access seems to be popular for Wintel users. Another very popular one > available for both Macs and Wintel platforms is FileMaker Pro (FMP). I've > used FileMaker for years for a variety of database projects including our > rock and mineral teaching collections, and I'm gradually entering all my > own > collection info into FMP. I plan to add in photos of key specimens, too > (digital, or scanned images). The best thing about using a relational > database (as opposed to a spreadsheet like Excel) is that it is very easy > to > set up different layouts, sort by a field, make global changes, and add > all > kinds of frills (even movies) if needed. You can quickly make a catalog > list, print labels, or find how many cacoxenites you have. You could link > a > record to a drawing of the crystal structure, or have it call up a web > site. > Lots of possibilities. The downside is that commercial database software > is > a little pricey (really no worse that MS Office), but there are low-cost > ones available (e.g., mySQL for Unix users (including Mac OS 10 users). > > > Jim > > Dr. James B. Murowchick > Associate Professor, Geology > Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall > 5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 > 816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 > murowchickj@umkc.edu > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Tue Jan 24 12:56:01 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Tue Jan 24 12:57:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> James Murowchick wrote: > asked: > > >>Do you know of a good program? >> >> > > >MS Access seems to be popular for Wintel users. Another very popular one >available for both Macs and Wintel platforms is FileMaker Pro (FMP). I've >used FileMaker for years for a variety of database projects including our >rock and mineral teaching collections, and I'm gradually entering all my own >collection info into FMP. I plan to add in photos of key specimens, too >(digital, or scanned images). The best thing about using a relational >database (as opposed to a spreadsheet like Excel) is that it is very easy to >set up different layouts, sort by a field, make global changes, and add all >kinds of frills (even movies) if needed. You can quickly make a catalog >list, print labels, or find how many cacoxenites you have. You could link a >record to a drawing of the crystal structure, or have it call up a web site. >Lots of possibilities. The downside is that commercial database software is >a little pricey (really no worse that MS Office), but there are low-cost >ones available (e.g., mySQL for Unix users (including Mac OS 10 users). > > >Jim > >Dr. James B. Murowchick >Associate Professor, Geology >Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall >5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 >816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 >murowchickj@umkc.edu > > > > More important than the program is the manner in which you save the information. Please DO NOT save it in a "proprietary" format. Twenty years from now when your program, or particular version of the program, is no longer available, how will you read the data? Think FoxPro, DBase III, Visicalc, and so on. It should be in a form that any database program can access. Use one of the international standards, preferably (right now) XML or text. And how will digital visual information be read in thirty years? Think BetaMax. Similarly, think of the media upon which you save your data. Will there be floppy or ZIP drives available to read the media? Or hard drives? Or USB flash ram drives? Or CD/DVD drives? Or even (Intel, etc) type computers with a now familiar operating system? There are lots of tape archives from the earlier days of computing that are inaccessible for these reasons, including some of the NASA spacecraft data. In NASA's case, both the format and the drives are not known or no longer available; the data are useless because we don't know how it was backed up. I suspect there are quite a few government and university archives in a similar fix. I guess the ideal would be to keep at least one archival paper copy available with the data. john From tim at orerockon.com Tue Jan 24 13:27:48 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jan 24 13:27:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> References: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060124132221.051ee980@orerockon.com> I can open any FoxBase, DBase, FileMaker, VisiCalc, or indeed ANY database file either directly from Access or through a conversion utility. These formats do not "go away", unlike Beta, it is simple to write a converter to open these older format files in modern database software, and it will always be so, because backward compatibility is everything in the PC industry, unlike the video industry, who just want to sell you the latest and greatest gadget and all the new media to go with it. FileMaker is free and is already overkill for a mineral collection database; buying Access is kinda silly for such a simple application. At 12:56 PM 1/24/2006, you wrote: >James Murowchick wrote: > >> asked: >> >> >>>Do you know of a good program? >>> >> >> >>MS Access seems to be popular for Wintel users. Another very popular one >>available for both Macs and Wintel platforms is FileMaker Pro (FMP). I've >>used FileMaker for years for a variety of database projects including our >>rock and mineral teaching collections, and I'm gradually entering all my own >>collection info into FMP. I plan to add in photos of key specimens, too >>(digital, or scanned images). The best thing about using a relational >>database (as opposed to a spreadsheet like Excel) is that it is very easy to >>set up different layouts, sort by a field, make global changes, and add all >>kinds of frills (even movies) if needed. You can quickly make a catalog >>list, print labels, or find how many cacoxenites you have. You could link a >>record to a drawing of the crystal structure, or have it call up a web site. >>Lots of possibilities. The downside is that commercial database software is >>a little pricey (really no worse that MS Office), but there are low-cost >>ones available (e.g., mySQL for Unix users (including Mac OS 10 users). >> >> >>Jim >>Dr. James B. Murowchick >>Associate Professor, Geology >>Department of Geosciences, 420 Flarsheim Hall >>5110 Rockhill Rd., Kansas City, MO 64110 >>816 235-2979 Fax: 816 235-5535 >>murowchickj@umkc.edu >> >> >> > >More important than the program is the manner in which you save the >information. Please DO NOT save it in a "proprietary" format. Twenty >years from now when your program, or particular version of the >program, is no longer available, how will you read the data? Think >FoxPro, DBase III, Visicalc, and so on. It should be in a form that >any database program can access. Use one of the international >standards, preferably (right now) XML or text. And how will digital >visual information be read in thirty years? Think BetaMax. > >Similarly, think of the media upon which you save your data. Will >there be floppy or ZIP drives available to read the media? Or hard >drives? Or USB flash ram drives? Or CD/DVD drives? Or even (Intel, >etc) type computers with a now familiar operating system? > >There are lots of tape archives from the earlier days of computing >that are inaccessible for these reasons, including some of the NASA >spacecraft data. In NASA's case, both the format and the drives are >not known or no longer available; the data are useless because we >don't know how it was backed up. I suspect there are quite a few >government and university archives in a similar fix. > >I guess the ideal would be to keep at least one archival paper copy >available with the data. > >john >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Tue Jan 24 13:40:26 2006 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Tue Jan 24 13:40:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections In-Reply-To: <001101c62115$d6f5a350$a58c4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: Hi. Don't want to start a thread / flame war on Mac versus PC, but would like to know: does MS Access works on Macintoshes? If not, are there any good curating/database programs that folks know that do? Thankee- Bill Cordua On 1/24/06 12:41 PM, "Lawrence Rush" wrote: > Most collectors use MS Access, but there are several others out there. One > important consideration for database programs is to sure that it is a > "relational" database, that is, it can search on any field of all of the > records. This allows you to find all records in your collection which meet > the criteria you enter in the search field. Ex. find all specimens from > Madagascar, or find all specimens of Apatite, find all specimens that cost > less than $30, etc. Most of today's programs are relational, but some of the > cheaper ones do not use this feature. > > Larry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > > >> >>> >>> From: ROCKCURRIER@cs.com >>> Date: 2006/01/24 Tue AM 04:00:53 EST >>> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >>> Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections >>> >> If you decide to put your collection on a computer you should also try and >> find a program that you can use to catalogue your collection, sort it in >> what ever way you want and to print out labels for your specimens at the >> same time. After all, if you have gone to the trouble of entering the data >> about your specimens it doesn't make since that you should have to enter >> the data again on a label. That is twice the work. If the program has find >> and replace functions this will cut down a lot on ! >>> the work you have to do when you have to correct mistakes you made in >>> locality name spellings or to change your locality information to more >>> complete locality information or to change the locality names when they >>> change. (German West Africa, S.W. Africa and finally Namibia. >> >> Rock: >> >> Good article as usual. >> >> Do you know of a good program? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From markhp at xs4all.nl Tue Jan 24 13:53:20 2006 From: markhp at xs4all.nl (Mark Holtkamp) Date: Tue Jan 24 13:53:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43D6A1D0.2060809@xs4all.nl> Hi Bill, Try OpenOffice (www.openoffice.org), version 2.0 has Access-like database capabilities (and more). It's free, runs on Windows, Macintosh, Linux etc. Mark. William Cordua wrote: > Hi. > > Don't want to start a thread / flame war on Mac versus PC, but would like to > know: does MS Access works on Macintoshes? If not, are there any good > curating/database programs that folks know that do? > > Thankee- Bill Cordua > > > On 1/24/06 12:41 PM, "Lawrence Rush" wrote: > > >>Most collectors use MS Access, but there are several others out there. One >>important consideration for database programs is to sure that it is a >>"relational" database, that is, it can search on any field of all of the >>records. This allows you to find all records in your collection which meet >>the criteria you enter in the search field. Ex. find all specimens from >>Madagascar, or find all specimens of Apatite, find all specimens that cost >>less than $30, etc. Most of today's programs are relational, but some of the >>cheaper ones do not use this feature. >> >>Larry >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" >> >>Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:58 PM >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections >> >> >> >>>>From: ROCKCURRIER@cs.com >>>>Date: 2006/01/24 Tue AM 04:00:53 EST >>>>To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >>>>Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections >>>> >>> >>>If you decide to put your collection on a computer you should also try and >>>find a program that you can use to catalogue your collection, sort it in >>>what ever way you want and to print out labels for your specimens at the >>>same time. After all, if you have gone to the trouble of entering the data >>>about your specimens it doesn't make since that you should have to enter >>>the data again on a label. That is twice the work. If the program has find >>>and replace functions this will cut down a lot on ! >>> >>>> the work you have to do when you have to correct mistakes you made in >>>>locality name spellings or to change your locality information to more >>>>complete locality information or to change the locality names when they >>>>change. (German West Africa, S.W. Africa and finally Namibia. >>> >>>Rock: >>> >>>Good article as usual. >>> >>>Do you know of a good program? >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From albalmer at att.net Tue Jan 24 14:01:14 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Jan 24 14:01:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060124132221.051ee980@orerockon.com> References: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> <7.0.0.16.2.20060124132221.051ee980@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <43D6A3AA.9000503@att.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > I can open any FoxBase, DBase, FileMaker, VisiCalc, or indeed ANY > database file either directly from Access or through a conversion > utility. These formats do not "go away", unlike Beta, it is simple to > write a converter to open these older format files in modern database > software, and it will always be so, because backward compatibility is > everything in the PC industry, unlike the video industry, who just want > to sell you the latest and greatest gadget and all the new media to go > with it. FileMaker is free You say free. They seem to say $299.00. http://store.filemaker.com/r1.html#fmp Access is available for about $165.00. Are you talking about a different product? >and is already overkill for a mineral > collection database; buying Access is kinda silly for such a simple > application. > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Jan 24 14:03:00 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Jan 24 14:03:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Filemaker Pro: Mac - PC References: Message-ID: <007701c62131$f1364e60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I can't speak about Access. I have used Filemaker Pro as the database program for years on a Mac (for our park's collection and the Troost collection). We got PC's and it converted without any difficulty. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Cordua" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > Hi. > > Don't want to start a thread / flame war on Mac versus PC, but would like > to > know: does MS Access works on Macintoshes? If not, are there any good > curating/database programs that folks know that do? > > Thankee- Bill Cordua From albalmer at att.net Tue Jan 24 14:05:33 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Jan 24 14:05:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections In-Reply-To: <43D6A1D0.2060809@xs4all.nl> References: <43D6A1D0.2060809@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <43D6A4AD.3040809@att.net> Mark Holtkamp wrote: > Hi Bill, > > Try OpenOffice (www.openoffice.org), version 2.0 has Access-like > database capabilities (and more). It's free, runs on Windows, Macintosh, > Linux etc. > I've started to play with it a bit. Main problem is lack of documentation. The help facility is far from adequate. I haven't even figured out how to add a calculated field, or even if it's possible. From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Tue Jan 24 14:08:49 2006 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Tue Jan 24 14:09:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060124132221.051ee980@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <20060124220906.FSCJ17035.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@D8YF2G81> I agree 100% with Tim and some of the other posters. Some thoughts are that while mediums come and go, (how many people still have 8 inch floppy drives?), programs and people are available to convert stuff for a price. I occasionally receive requests to read 7 track (lol before 9 track became popular) tapes and 8 inch floppies of clients data from the 70's. Paper lasts, not always, LOL there are companies that have archival data on punch cards that have found that rats and cockroaches like eating and nesting in the boxes, Unfortunately reading a punch card with a 3 inch diameter in the center is rather difficult, not mentioning with the risk of Hatavirus transmission from rodent fecal and urine makes in theory that you need class 4 biohazard lab to handle the stuff... The real answer is that no matter what you use to document, it needs to be maintained and migrated to new mediums as needed. Also documentation of the internal structure has to be maintained, and not only in your head, because if you suffer from a case of Coyoteitits (as in Wyle E Coyote has an Anvil fall on his head) and someone else inherits your stuff how are they supposed to interpret what was obvious to you. If anything I would suggest that if one was to do a project like this that they should export the data in a text format using an OCR compatible font. Then print using a laser printer (not inkjet) on archival grade paper, and lock it inside a steel box in a dry place. 20 years from now you or your heirs would be able to interpret it. Kay PS part of the problem at NASA etc is that a lot of the tapes are analog not digital. In addition while the tapes can be read back in and the data can be looked at on screen, no one knows either the encoding or the file layout. So it becomes useless data.... From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 14:29:53 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 24 14:29:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <20060124220906.FSCJ17035.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@D8YF2G81> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20060124132221.051ee980@orerockon.com> <20060124220906.FSCJ17035.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@D8YF2G81> Message-ID: And almost all modern db are ODBC compliant and are readable from any other ODBC database or programming language. That has pretty much been the case since Dbase rolled over and died. These databases run the world, and I'm not exaggerating and won't become obsolete in any reasonable time frame. There are many terabytes of financial and other budiness data locked away in these databases. BK On 1/24/06, Kay Davis wrote: > > I agree 100% with Tim and some of the other posters. > > Some thoughts are that while mediums come and go, (how many people still > have 8 inch floppy drives?), programs and people are available to convert > stuff for a price. I occasionally receive requests to read 7 track (lol > before 9 track became popular) tapes and 8 inch floppies of clients data > from the 70's. Paper lasts, not always, LOL there are companies that > have > archival data on punch cards that have found that rats and cockroaches > like > eating and nesting in the boxes, Unfortunately reading a punch card with a > 3 > inch diameter in the center is rather difficult, not mentioning with the > risk of Hatavirus transmission from rodent fecal and urine makes in theory > that you need class 4 biohazard lab to handle the stuff... > > The real answer is that no matter what you use to document, it > needs > to be maintained and migrated to new mediums as needed. Also documentation > of the internal structure has to be maintained, and not only in your head, > because if you suffer from a case of Coyoteitits (as in Wyle E Coyote has > an > Anvil fall on his head) and someone else inherits your stuff how are they > supposed to interpret what was obvious to you. > > If anything I would suggest that if one was to do a project like > this that they should export the data in a text format using an OCR > compatible font. Then print using a laser printer (not inkjet) on archival > grade paper, and lock it inside a steel box in a dry place. 20 years from > now you or your heirs would be able to interpret it. > > Kay > > PS part of the problem at NASA etc is that a lot of the tapes are analog > not > digital. In addition while the tapes can be read back in and the data can > be > looked at on screen, no one knows either the encoding or the file layout. > So > it becomes useless data.... > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 14:31:19 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 24 14:31:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections In-Reply-To: References: <001101c62115$d6f5a350$a58c4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: It is part of MS Office so I assume it comes with the Mac version. BK On 1/24/06, William Cordua wrote: > > Hi. > > Don't want to start a thread / flame war on Mac versus PC, but would like > to > know: does MS Access works on Macintoshes? If not, are there any good > curating/database programs that folks know that do? > > Thankee- Bill Cordua > > > On 1/24/06 12:41 PM, "Lawrence Rush" wrote: > > > Most collectors use MS Access, but there are several others out there. > One > > important consideration for database programs is to sure that it is a > > "relational" database, that is, it can search on any field of all of the > > records. This allows you to find all records in your collection which > meet > > the criteria you enter in the search field. Ex. find all specimens from > > Madagascar, or find all specimens of Apatite, find all specimens that > cost > > less than $30, etc. Most of today's programs are relational, but some of > the > > cheaper ones do not use this feature. > > > > Larry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:58 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > > > > > >> > >>> > >>> From: ROCKCURRIER@cs.com > >>> Date: 2006/01/24 Tue AM 04:00:53 EST > >>> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >>> Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > >>> > >> If you decide to put your collection on a computer you should also try > and > >> find a program that you can use to catalogue your collection, sort it > in > >> what ever way you want and to print out labels for your specimens at > the > >> same time. After all, if you have gone to the trouble of entering the > data > >> about your specimens it doesn't make since that you should have to > enter > >> the data again on a label. That is twice the work. If the program has > find > >> and replace functions this will cut down a lot on ! > >>> the work you have to do when you have to correct mistakes you made in > >>> locality name spellings or to change your locality information to more > >>> complete locality information or to change the locality names when > they > >>> change. (German West Africa, S.W. Africa and finally Namibia. > >> > >> Rock: > >> > >> Good article as usual. > >> > >> Do you know of a good program? > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Jan 24 14:37:50 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Tue Jan 24 14:40:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections References: <001101c62115$d6f5a350$a58c4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <005601c62136$d27d1080$0200a8c0@warren> Just FYI - Access is only part of certain versions of Microsoft Office - even on the PC. Some versions only come with Word, Excel and Publisher, for example. Others include (or exclude) Access, MS Publisher, etc. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections It is part of MS Office so I assume it comes with the Mac version. BK On 1/24/06, William Cordua wrote: > > Hi. > > Don't want to start a thread / flame war on Mac versus PC, but would like > to > know: does MS Access works on Macintoshes? If not, are there any good > curating/database programs that folks know that do? > > Thankee- Bill Cordua From tim at orerockon.com Tue Jan 24 15:04:25 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jan 24 15:04:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <43D6A3AA.9000503@att.net> References: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> <7.0.0.16.2.20060124132221.051ee980@orerockon.com> <43D6A3AA.9000503@att.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060124145455.051ee420@orerockon.com> Not FileMaker Pro. They used to have a freeware version just called FileMaker. But I am out of date lol. If I still had the ZIP I would send it to you but alas, it went the way of the old hard drive :( dBworx is another good one that still has a free version http://www.plworx-software.com/dbworx36.zip At 02:01 PM 1/24/2006, you wrote: >Tim Fisher wrote: >>I can open any FoxBase, DBase, FileMaker, VisiCalc, or indeed ANY >>database file either directly from Access or through a conversion >>utility. These formats do not "go away", unlike Beta, it is simple >>to write a converter to open these older format files in modern >>database software, and it will always be so, because backward >>compatibility is everything in the PC industry, unlike the video >>industry, who just want to sell you the latest and greatest gadget >>and all the new media to go with it. FileMaker is free > >You say free. They seem to say $299.00. http://store.filemaker.com/r1.html#fmp > >Access is available for about $165.00. > >Are you talking about a different product? > >>and is already overkill for a mineral collection database; buying >>Access is kinda silly for such a simple application. >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 15:13:55 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 24 15:13:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections In-Reply-To: <005601c62136$d27d1080$0200a8c0@warren> References: <001101c62115$d6f5a350$a58c4c0c@LarryRush> <005601c62136$d27d1080$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: That's true, forgot about that. It used to be included with the professional version but they've been changing the names around. I wouldn't go out and buy Office to get Access. BK On 1/24/06, Julie Siebel wrote: > > Just FYI - Access is only part of certain versions of Microsoft Office - > even on the PC. Some versions only come with Word, Excel and Publisher, > for > example. Others include (or exclude) Access, MS Publisher, etc. > > Julie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:31 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > > > It is part of MS Office so I assume it comes with the Mac version. > > BK > > On 1/24/06, William Cordua wrote: > > > > Hi. > > > > Don't want to start a thread / flame war on Mac versus PC, but would > like > > to > > know: does MS Access works on Macintoshes? If not, are there any good > > curating/database programs that folks know that do? > > > > Thankee- Bill Cordua > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pbhewitt at comcast.net Tue Jan 24 15:27:37 2006 From: pbhewitt at comcast.net (Paul) Date: Tue Jan 24 15:28:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections Message-ID: <000501c6213d$c3b1aa00$6601a8c0@maingear> I have a question about Access that I hope someone can help with. I had some Access training several years ago when I took an internet programming course. They taught us how to create a database and tables and queries and especially custom forms. I HATE the forms created using the wizard but I cannot for the life of me remember how to create a custom form using design view. I can add the text boxes and labels okay but the text boxes say "unbound" in them. How do I link them to fields in the database? I tried right clicking and going to properties and adding a control source but then when I run the form the control source is still in the box and I can't get rid of it. I am sure it is something simple that I am forgetting ... can anyone help? Paul in Marietta, Pa --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Tue Jan 24 15:51:20 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Jan 24 15:51:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060124145455.051ee420@orerockon.com> References: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> <7.0.0.16.2.20060124132221.051ee980@orerockon.com> <43D6A3AA.9000503@att.net> <7.0.0.16.2.20060124145455.051ee420@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <43D6BD78.3060702@att.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > Not FileMaker Pro. They used to have a freeware version just called > FileMaker. But I am out of date lol. If I still had the ZIP I would send > it to you but alas, it went the way of the old hard drive :( dBworx is > another good one that still has a free version > http://www.plworx-software.com/dbworx36.zip > Thanks, I'll give it a look. > At 02:01 PM 1/24/2006, you wrote: >> Tim Fisher wrote: >>> I can open any FoxBase, DBase, FileMaker, VisiCalc, or indeed ANY >>> database file either directly from Access or through a conversion >>> utility. These formats do not "go away", unlike Beta, it is simple to >>> write a converter to open these older format files in modern database >>> software, and it will always be so, because backward compatibility is >>> everything in the PC industry, unlike the video industry, who just >>> want to sell you the latest and greatest gadget and all the new media >>> to go with it. FileMaker is free >> >> You say free. They seem to say $299.00. >> http://store.filemaker.com/r1.html#fmp >> >> Access is available for about $165.00. >> >> Are you talking about a different product? >> >>> and is already overkill for a mineral collection database; buying >>> Access is kinda silly for such a simple application. From rpr at heidelberg.edu Tue Jan 24 17:06:38 2006 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Tue Jan 24 17:06:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Filemaker Pro: Mac - PC In-Reply-To: <007701c62131$f1364e60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <007701c62131$f1364e60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: As far as I have been able to determine, Bill does not make Access available for the Mac. It certainly does not come with Office for the Mac. I too use Filemaker Pro and like it very well. Setting up databases and even modifying them (e.g.adding fields) after they are populated with data is a snap. Pete Richards >I can't speak about Access. I have used Filemaker Pro as the >database program for years on a Mac (for our park's collection and >the Troost collection). We got PC's and it converted without any >difficulty. > >Alan > >----- Original Message ----- From: "William Cordua" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:40 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > >>Hi. >> >>Don't want to start a thread / flame war on Mac versus PC, but would like to >>know: does MS Access works on Macintoshes? If not, are there any good >>curating/database programs that folks know that do? >> >>Thankee- Bill Cordua > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From hammerron at yahoo.com Tue Jan 24 17:52:23 2006 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Tue Jan 24 17:52:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Cataloging a mineral collection In-Reply-To: <20060124031136.15427.qmail@web30506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060125015223.62491.qmail@web81402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Scott: Unfortunately, I never made it to Guillette Quarry, as I've heard that it is no longer open. I did happen to see some tourmaline from there on display at a mineral show in Springfield, MA this Summer at http://worcestermineralclub.org/article4C.htm I would have loved to get to Guillette Quarry and kind of fantasized about finding pink tourmaline there. The quarries in nearby Portland, CT were always favorites of mine, especially Strickland Quarry, now closed. Anyone know of any remaining open collecting sites there? -Ron Staroleum wrote: Hi Hammer, That's a nice system! I enjoyed the rockhounding trip story on your site, too. Sorry to hear about the exhaust system on that Pinto, but it seems like you've taken it in good spirits. By the way, did you ever make it to the Gilette Quarry? I used to live in Connecticut. Now I'm in Oregon, but my niece and nephew are in CT, and sometime this summer I'll visit and maybe be able to take them out rockhounding somewhere. Best, Scott ................. Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:29:30 -0800 (PST) From: The Hammer Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloging a mineral collection There are many ways to keep the mineral specimens that you collect. I thought I'd share how I catalog my own personal collection. The info is at: http://hammerron.com/minerals/cataloging.htm Comments? --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tfa at brickengraver.com Tue Jan 24 18:41:48 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Jan 24 18:42:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Database In-Reply-To: <200601250202.k0P22c7L026045@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000301c62158$e3fbda90$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> I just wanted to let yall know that the database that I and Don Halterman developed a while back is still available and since I have decided it is impossible to actually sell it, I have decided to almost give it away for $30.00, with a couple of caveats. The first being that the person needs to be serious about it and be willing to pay for a phone call to me while I actually invite him to my computer to show him how it works. During this session I can transfer it to him. This overview will take about an hour at least, as eventhough it is a relatively simple program to use, it is very robust and needs some training. There is some customization that needs to be done upfront, and after that should work fine. I have just bought a program called Camtasia in order to create a movie demo of it and plan on doing that in the very near future. I have a couple of serious users who are using it for projects and have decided to make the movie to help them out. Secondly, I requires Microsoft Office Professional (with Access) with a full install. So it will not work on an Apple. It uses hooks to Outlook, Word, and Excel so needs the full Office package--althogh these can be eliminated. It has some very nice features and an easy method of backup. It allows you to save as many pictures or documents about a specimen as you want, at full resolution. It automatically copies and renames the original pictures into a subfolder of the main application, so that once you get them into the db, and back up the main folder to dvd, you will have all info backed up-including all your precious high res pics. It allows library documents of any type and pictures that can be attached to multiple specimens. It has almost all the countries, provinces, and states (counties also) available from drop pick boxes. Has MasMils database included and very fast routine for searching it and attaching any lat-long data to a specimen. Once you enter a mine, it will be then available for any subsequent entries. Has links to mapquest, National Geographic, terra server, for maps and am working on Virtual World from Microsoft that is in beta now. Can attach a Google earth link to a rock also so can fly to the mine. It has almost all valid minerals available from pick list, and ability to add new ones or not "legit" ones. It will support multiple collections so that one has all rocks in database but could create collections within collections and just search or print those records. Can print out a catalog of all specimens with all the fields so that you can have a written record --very important. Since Access is so robust and with a little knowledge, one can created his own queries, reports, etc., it should be able to accomplish anything that a collector or a museum would want to do. Numerous other things also. I recently had to sell my collection for financial reasons but would like people to get some use out of my 4 or 5 hundred hours programming. Learned a lot with this project --so not lost money. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com The search is what anyone would undertake if he were not sunk in the everydayness of his own life. To become aware of the possibility of the search is to be onto something. Not to be onto something is to be in despair. Walker Percy From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Jan 24 19:17:56 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Jan 24 19:16:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> References: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <43D6EDE4.8090506@verizon.net> Hi all, I haven't read all the threads in detail, so some of this info may be redundant. For those who don't know, I spent quite a few years in data management, protection, and recovery, and a few years working with collection management. I applied my experience in both areas to a project at the Sterling Hill Mining Museum, whereby we spent several years identifying every piece of information you could want to put in a catalog, and using scientific methods to determine the most robust and long-term way to maintain and use this catalog. We engaged the brilliant services of former list member Tommy Armstrong, whose skills with Access gave life to the concept in ways far beyond Earl and I had hoped. We were making it available to the public and I will look into the current status of that. I have some general advice about those who would create their own database. 1. Remember that a catalog will often be used in the future by others. Retain as much information about the specimen as you can. Information lost can rarely, if ever, be regained. 2. It is best to maintain your data in a commercial general database program like Access, FileMaker, Paradox, etc. Nothing lasts forever, but these programs will be around for quite a long time; they are robust, fully relational, can share with other formats, and can make backups and exports. I had some long and heated discussions with Tommy about basing the whole thing in Access, but in the end, his logic convinced me has was correct. True, not everyone uses Access, and I am certainly no fan of Billgatus of Borg, but Access is ubiquitous and will continue to be upgraded for many years. On the other hand, we polled a number of museums about the databases they use, and just about every single one of them was using a proprietary executable program that was no longer maintained by the writer or unable to run on later operating systems or both. When you use Access/FileMaker/Paradox/etc., as long as you upgrade the programs, you are upgrading your collection system! Face the fact, you are always going to need to upgrade *something*. 3. If you use a commercial database program as the basis for your system, you can learn Access programming (or whatever) and write your own the way you want it; if someone else gives you theirs, you can modify it, or find any one of a number of people who know how to do it for you. There are dozens of programmers out there. 4. People who have thousands of paper records are not likely to want to convert their files to computer. However, those of you who don't have that problem, I encourage you to do so! There is absolutely no reason not to. 5. There is one big drawback: data integrity. By this I mean making backups, format conversions, etc. Well there is a simple answer to this problem, you need the best of both worlds. Computer and paper! Part of your lifestyle should be making three things: a) file backups; b) exports to text files for easy import to other formats; c) paper catalogs. One trick is to have a page break between each specimen record when you print it, so that if you change something in a specimen entry, you can just replace those pages and not need to re-print a whole new catalog (and of course I recommend a three-ring binder for this). You might choose to file your catalog in specimen-number order, so that you can just add new specimens to the end. When you want to find a particular specimen with particular characteristics, you can do a search in the database to get the specimen number, and find it quickly in the printed catalog! Hope this helps somewhat. Don From johnjold at comcast.net Tue Jan 24 19:17:13 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Tue Jan 24 19:17:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Filemaker Pro: Mac - PC Message-ID: <34011b13159461f6b75152aa64bf4e3c@comcast.net> There is a Mac program called Virtual PC which allows you to run anything. From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 19:28:39 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 24 19:28:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <43D6EDE4.8090506@verizon.net> References: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> <43D6EDE4.8090506@verizon.net> Message-ID: Paradox? I thought it was sleeping with the fishes. Is it still being maintained by Borland? BK On 1/24/06, DonH wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > I haven't read all the threads in detail, so some of this info may be > redundant. For those who don't know, I spent quite a few years in data > management, protection, and recovery, and a few years working with > collection management. I applied my experience in both areas to a > project at the Sterling Hill Mining Museum, whereby we spent several > years identifying every piece of information you could want to put in a > catalog, and using scientific methods to determine the most robust and > long-term way to maintain and use this catalog. We engaged the > brilliant services of former list member Tommy Armstrong, whose skills > with Access gave life to the concept in ways far beyond Earl and I had > hoped. We were making it available to the public and I will look into > the current status of that. > > I have some general advice about those who would create their own > database. > > 1. Remember that a catalog will often be used in the future by others. > Retain as much information about the specimen as you can. Information > lost can rarely, if ever, be regained. > > 2. It is best to maintain your data in a commercial general database > program like Access, FileMaker, Paradox, etc. Nothing lasts forever, > but these programs will be around for quite a long time; they are > robust, fully relational, can share with other formats, and can make > backups and exports. I had some long and heated discussions with Tommy > about basing the whole thing in Access, but in the end, his logic > convinced me has was correct. True, not everyone uses Access, and I am > certainly no fan of Billgatus of Borg, but Access is ubiquitous and will > continue to be upgraded for many years. On the other hand, we polled a > number of museums about the databases they use, and just about every > single one of them was using a proprietary executable program that was > no longer maintained by the writer or unable to run on later operating > systems or both. When you use Access/FileMaker/Paradox/etc., as long as > you upgrade the programs, you are upgrading your collection system! > Face the fact, you are always going to need to upgrade *something*. > > 3. If you use a commercial database program as the basis for your > system, you can learn Access programming (or whatever) and write your > own the way you want it; if someone else gives you theirs, you can > modify it, or find any one of a number of people who know how to do it > for you. There are dozens of programmers out there. > > 4. People who have thousands of paper records are not likely to want to > convert their files to computer. However, those of you who don't have > that problem, I encourage you to do so! There is absolutely no reason > not to. > > 5. There is one big drawback: data integrity. By this I mean making > backups, format conversions, etc. Well there is a simple answer to this > problem, you need the best of both worlds. Computer and paper! Part of > your lifestyle should be making three things: a) file backups; b) > exports to text files for easy import to other formats; c) paper > catalogs. One trick is to have a page break between each specimen > record when you print it, so that if you change something in a specimen > entry, you can just replace those pages and not need to re-print a whole > new catalog (and of course I recommend a three-ring binder for this). > You might choose to file your catalog in specimen-number order, so that > you can just add new specimens to the end. When you want to find a > particular specimen with particular characteristics, you can do a search > in the database to get the specimen number, and find it quickly in the > printed catalog! > > Hope this helps somewhat. > > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 19:36:27 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Tue Jan 24 19:36:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections In-Reply-To: <2E13185E.1DEBB127.3AEB17FB@cs.com> References: <2E13185E.1DEBB127.3AEB17FB@cs.com> Message-ID: Rock, I would like to reinforce your urgings re proper labeling and storage. I recently picked up several flats of specimens from a former club member (donations for the Boston Mineral Club Auction) and was reminded of the truth of your comments. Many of the better specimens were carefully wrapped in tissue paper and included labels but the ink on the labels had faded so badly that it was a real struggle to decipher the mineral species and locality. In 25 years the labels we place on our specimens will be long gone if we are not careful to use good ink. Other flats were in much worse shape. All at one time had a 3 x 5 card with the locality name written on it (probably with a felt tip marker). Years of storage in a damp basement had taken its tool on both the box and the labels. Many were totally illegible. Such a shame. My one New Year's resolution is to spend more time sorting, trimming, labeling and cataloging this year. Wish me luck! On 1/24/06, ROCKCURRIER@cs.com wrote: > > Paper and pen have a lot going on for them when it comes to cataloguing > and labeling specimens. It has tradition that goes back thousands of years > and is pretty permanent and won't disappear if your hard drive crashes. > --snip When you write or print your labels, for heaven sakes, use acid free paper > or some archival grade of paper and use a heavy kind of paper like card > stock. This will make the labels durable. --snip I would recommend printing your labels with a laser printer using a common > print font like Times Roman, Bookman or Arial. This way the next generation > won't have to try and figure out how to read your labels. Avoid using an ink > jet printer if you can and stick with laser jet printers. This way the ink > is more or less permanent on the label. Some ink jet printers use ink that > will run and smudge if they get a little wet or damp. I would highly > recommend that in addition to some sort of display label that you create a > small label that you glue directly on the specimen. If the specimen is > small, and you can fit nothing else on the label, put the locality on this > glue on label. Once the label gets separated from the specimen, it is in > jeopardy of becoming an unknown rock and more than likely a! > candidate for the trash. > > Fold up paper boxes and egg cartons are OK for temporary storage but in > ten or twenty years in your garage they are going to look real dirty and > dingy. The more expensive pasteboard boxes with cotton are somewhat better, > but unless you put them in a fairly dust proof cabinet, they too will look > terrible after a decade or two. When you die, your collection will more than > likely fall into the hands of someone who knows little about specimen. This > could be your wife, children, a distant relative or even the state. If your > collection is arranged in a beautiful wooden cabinet with each specimen in > its own little box with a well made printed label, the specimens will look > important and valuable. More than anything else this will cause a person to > take extra care in disposing of them. I can guarantee you that if you store > your collection in egg cartons or fold up boxes in beer flats in your > garage, that your heirs will get very little for the collection compared > money and effort yo! > u have lavished on it and it may be thrown into the dumpster. Often people > who don't know about specimens will pack them up into boxes so as to be able > to store them in less space. It is typical at that point that the person > will gather up all the labels and put them in a separate box or envelope > rather than wrapping them up with the specimen. They do this because it is > obvious that someone had made a lot of effort to neatly make the labels and > wrapping them up with the specimen will bend them all up and degrade them. > This is why you need to get labels glued on the specimens. Some years ago > there was an article in the Mineralogical Record that recounted a few of the > more horrendous things that can happen to mineral specimens and collections > after they were in the hands of collectors who supposedly cared about them. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Jan 24 19:47:08 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Jan 24 19:46:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: References: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> <43D6EDE4.8090506@verizon.net> Message-ID: <43D6F4BC.9010102@verizon.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Paradox? I thought it was sleeping with the fishes. Is it still being > maintained by Borland? Well, it was a few years ago at least. I did the original prototype in Paradox. Mineral dealer John Betts had recommended Paradox for its ability to add special characters, but you can do most, if not all, of that with Access now. When Tommy took hold of our design, he wrote it in Access which he knew well. As I said, he finally convinced me that was the way to go. I have been an anti-Micro$oft rebel since before it was fashionable to be so; but the realistic side of me realized resistance is futile and assimilation was invevitable. There is--or was--an active Paradox programming community, and I wish them success and long life. However you are right, the days may be numbered. One of the reasons I retired early from the computer security business was because, for the first time, our project put a farm of Micrcsoft servers on the front end of a web-based system containing a large amount of sensitive Army data. It was a nightmare keeping up with patches, threats, virii, worms, attacks from India and Pakistan, etc. My name was on the dotted line and I had enough sleepness nights wondering when the bad guys were going to find a crack in the armor. But anyway, when it comes to something like figuring out where to put your data management program to ensure it will be around in the next 20 years, I would reluctantly place my bets on Access. However I will continue to point out alternative choices as well. Don From tfa at brickengraver.com Tue Jan 24 20:07:10 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Jan 24 20:07:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <43D6EDE4.8090506@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000301c62164$d1a73400$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Hey Don, \ Long time, no hear--still a member but sold collection. Just happened to read thread in digest. Tommy -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:18 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections Hi all, I haven't read all the threads in detail, so some of this info may be redundant. For those who don't know, I spent quite a few years in data management, protection, and recovery, and a few years working with collection management. I applied my experience in both areas to a project at the Sterling Hill Mining Museum, whereby we spent several years identifying every piece of information you could want to put in a catalog, and using scientific methods to determine the most robust and long-term way to maintain and use this catalog. We engaged the brilliant services of former list member Tommy Armstrong, whose skills with Access gave life to the concept in ways far beyond Earl and I had hoped. We were making it available to the public and I will look into the current status of that. I have some general advice about those who would create their own database. 1. Remember that a catalog will often be used in the future by others. Retain as much information about the specimen as you can. Information lost can rarely, if ever, be regained. 2. It is best to maintain your data in a commercial general database program like Access, FileMaker, Paradox, etc. Nothing lasts forever, but these programs will be around for quite a long time; they are robust, fully relational, can share with other formats, and can make backups and exports. I had some long and heated discussions with Tommy about basing the whole thing in Access, but in the end, his logic convinced me has was correct. True, not everyone uses Access, and I am certainly no fan of Billgatus of Borg, but Access is ubiquitous and will continue to be upgraded for many years. On the other hand, we polled a number of museums about the databases they use, and just about every single one of them was using a proprietary executable program that was no longer maintained by the writer or unable to run on later operating systems or both. When you use Access/FileMaker/Paradox/etc., as long as you upgrade the programs, you are upgrading your collection system! Face the fact, you are always going to need to upgrade *something*. 3. If you use a commercial database program as the basis for your system, you can learn Access programming (or whatever) and write your own the way you want it; if someone else gives you theirs, you can modify it, or find any one of a number of people who know how to do it for you. There are dozens of programmers out there. 4. People who have thousands of paper records are not likely to want to convert their files to computer. However, those of you who don't have that problem, I encourage you to do so! There is absolutely no reason not to. 5. There is one big drawback: data integrity. By this I mean making backups, format conversions, etc. Well there is a simple answer to this problem, you need the best of both worlds. Computer and paper! Part of your lifestyle should be making three things: a) file backups; b) exports to text files for easy import to other formats; c) paper catalogs. One trick is to have a page break between each specimen record when you print it, so that if you change something in a specimen entry, you can just replace those pages and not need to re-print a whole new catalog (and of course I recommend a three-ring binder for this). You might choose to file your catalog in specimen-number order, so that you can just add new specimens to the end. When you want to find a particular specimen with particular characteristics, you can do a search in the database to get the specimen number, and find it quickly in the printed catalog! Hope this helps somewhat. Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 20:10:26 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 24 20:10:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <43D6F4BC.9010102@verizon.net> References: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> <43D6EDE4.8090506@verizon.net> <43D6F4BC.9010102@verizon.net> Message-ID: I used Paradox many years ago but I haven't heard or seen anything about it for 5 or 6 years at a minimum. MySQL is the main Open Source db and SQL Server is the MS big gun now. Especially since they are giving away a fully functional version of it now. Access has pretty much dropped off db coders screens but it would work perfectly well for a mineral database. It's easy to use and has wizards to help users. After 5 or 6 versions now they have most of the bugs out. There are rumors of a SQL Server desktop version replacement for Access tho, I don't know if there is any truth in them and it won't happen anytime soon. BK On 1/24/06, DonH wrote: > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > Paradox? I thought it was sleeping with the fishes. Is it still being > > maintained by Borland? > > > Well, it was a few years ago at least. I did the original prototype in > Paradox. Mineral dealer John Betts had recommended Paradox for its > ability to add special characters, but you can do most, if not all, of > that with Access now. When Tommy took hold of our design, he wrote it > in Access which he knew well. As I said, he finally convinced me that > was the way to go. I have been an anti-Micro$oft rebel since before it > was fashionable to be so; but the realistic side of me realized > resistance is futile and assimilation was invevitable. There is--or > was--an active Paradox programming community, and I wish them success > and long life. However you are right, the days may be numbered. > > One of the reasons I retired early from the computer security business > was because, for the first time, our project put a farm of Micrcsoft > servers on the front end of a web-based system containing a large amount > of sensitive Army data. It was a nightmare keeping up with patches, > threats, virii, worms, attacks from India and Pakistan, etc. My name > was on the dotted line and I had enough sleepness nights wondering when > the bad guys were going to find a crack in the armor. But anyway, when > it comes to something like figuring out where to put your data > management program to ensure it will be around in the next 20 years, I > would reluctantly place my bets on Access. However I will continue to > point out alternative choices as well. > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tfa at brickengraver.com Tue Jan 24 20:15:01 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Jan 24 20:14:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Filemaker Pro: Mac - PC In-Reply-To: <34011b13159461f6b75152aa64bf4e3c@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000401c62165$e973c610$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Yes, for the Power PC Macs. It is kind of up in the air about the new Intel ones. But Microsoft has contracted with Apple to provide Office for Mac for at least another 5 years. It will be interesting what the future direction of Virtual PC will be. And whether Access (or SQL Server) will run on the new Macs. Anyway, I for one like Bill Gates--he makes a lot of money but gives away an awful lot also. And despite what anyone says, a simpleton like me with the voluminous help MS gives to developers, can manage to do some pretty neat stuff. Tommmy -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Joldersma Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:17 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Cc: John Joldersma Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Filemaker Pro: Mac - PC There is a Mac program called Virtual PC which allows you to run anything. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tfa at brickengraver.com Tue Jan 24 20:28:45 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Jan 24 20:28:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c62167$d51f6370$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Access is a reasonably friendly robust program, and I doubt that MS will do away with it soon--as there is some nice stuff in the new version (12) coming up with the release of Office 12. Their new Infopath program hooks directly into it so I doubt if they have any intentions of doing away with it. For small and medium businesses it is an excellent program, and is reasonably easy to upscale to SQL Server. And it is so much faster now than in the previous versions. For example, in the db that Don and I collaborated on, I downloaded from the web over 200,000 records from Mas Mils and included it, and it can search out a single record using the Like function almost instantaneously. I am not really a database guru--but am pretty good at creating interfaces--at least ones I like. Anyway--any of the current databases will do everything a mineral collector needs--its just what you are comfortable with. Tommy -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 11:10 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections I used Paradox many years ago but I haven't heard or seen anything about it for 5 or 6 years at a minimum. MySQL is the main Open Source db and SQL Server is the MS big gun now. Especially since they are giving away a fully functional version of it now. Access has pretty much dropped off db coders screens but it would work perfectly well for a mineral database. It's easy to use and has wizards to help users. After 5 or 6 versions now they have most of the bugs out. There are rumors of a SQL Server desktop version replacement for Access tho, I don't know if there is any truth in them and it won't happen anytime soon. BK On 1/24/06, DonH wrote: > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > Paradox? I thought it was sleeping with the fishes. Is it still > > being maintained by Borland? > > > Well, it was a few years ago at least. I did the original prototype > in Paradox. Mineral dealer John Betts had recommended Paradox for its > ability to add special characters, but you can do most, if not all, of > that with Access now. When Tommy took hold of our design, he wrote it > in Access which he knew well. As I said, he finally convinced me that > was the way to go. I have been an anti-Micro$oft rebel since before > it was fashionable to be so; but the realistic side of me realized > resistance is futile and assimilation was invevitable. There is--or > was--an active Paradox programming community, and I wish them success > and long life. However you are right, the days may be numbered. > > One of the reasons I retired early from the computer security business > was because, for the first time, our project put a farm of Micrcsoft > servers on the front end of a web-based system containing a large > amount of sensitive Army data. It was a nightmare keeping up with > patches, threats, virii, worms, attacks from India and Pakistan, etc. > My name was on the dotted line and I had enough sleepness nights > wondering when the bad guys were going to find a crack in the armor. > But anyway, when it comes to something like figuring out where to put > your data management program to ensure it will be around in the next > 20 years, I would reluctantly place my bets on Access. However I will > continue to point out alternative choices as well. > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tfa at brickengraver.com Tue Jan 24 21:15:31 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Jan 24 21:15:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections-If you want a copy of ours In-Reply-To: <43D6EDE4.8090506@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000c01c6216e$5d6ab030$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> I just wanted to let yall know that the database that I and Don Halterman developed a while back is still available and since I have decided it is impossible to actually sell it, I have decided to almost give it away for $30.00, with a couple of caveats. The first being that the person needs to be serious about it and be willing to pay for a phone call to me while I actually invite him to my computer to show him how it works. During this session I can transfer it to him. This overview will take about an hour at least, as even though it is a relatively simple program to use, it is very robust and needs some training. There is some customization that needs to be done upfront and it is easier for me to do this doing the help session, and after that should work fine. I have just bought a program called Camtasia in order to create a movie demo of it and plan on doing that in the very near future. I have a couple of serious users who are using it for projects and have decided to make the movie to help them out. Secondly, I requires Microsoft Office Professional (with Access) with a full install. So it will not work on an Apple. It uses hooks to Outlook, Word, and Excel so needs the full Office package--although these can be eliminated. It has some very nice features and an easy method of backup. It allows you to save as many pictures or documents about a specimen as you want, at full resolution. It automatically copies and renames the original pictures into a subfolder of the main application, so that once you get them into the db, and back up the main folder to DVD, you will have all info backed up-including all your precious high res pics. It allows library documents of any type and pictures that can be attached to multiple specimens. It has almost all the countries, provinces, and states (counties also) available from drop pick boxes. Has MasMils database included and very fast routine for searching it and attaching any lat-long data to a specimen. Once you enter a mine, it will be then available for any subsequent entries. Has links to mapquest, National Geographic, terra server, for maps and am working on Virtual World from Microsoft that is in beta now. Can attach a Google earth link to a rock also so can fly to the mine. It has almost all valid minerals available from pick list, and ability to add new ones or not "legit" ones. It will support multiple collections so that one has all rocks in database but could create collections within collections and just search or print those records. Can print out a catalog of all specimens with all the fields so that you can have a written record --very important. Since Access is so robust and with a little knowledge, one can created his own queries, reports, etc., it should be able to accomplish anything that a collector or a museum would want to do. Numerous other things also. I recently had to sell my collection for financial reasons but would like people to get some use out of my 4 or 5 hundred hours programming. Learned a lot with this project --so not lost money. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com The search is what anyone would undertake if he were not sunk in the everydayness of his own life. To become aware of the possibility of the search is to be onto something. Not to be onto something is to be in despair. Walker Percy From magnet at crocoite.com Wed Jan 25 00:02:43 2006 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Wed Jan 25 00:02:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections-If you want a copy of ours Message-ID: <20060125080243.18765.qmail@webmachine101.com> I offered to be a crash test dummy for Tommy's database a while back and have to say that it is an excellent product. I personally don't use it because I don't have Access (I tested a "runtime" version). However, for the amount of time and effort put in by Toomy and indeed, by Don, I do hope that some people can take it on. Regards Steve > -------Original Message------- > From: Tommy Armstrong > Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections-If you want a copy of ours > Sent: 24 Jan '06 19:15 > > I just wanted to let yall know that the database that I and Don Halterman > developed a while back is still available and since I have decided it is > impossible to actually sell it, I have decided to almost give it away for > $30.00..... From albalmer at att.net Wed Jan 25 06:45:17 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jan 25 06:45:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <43D6EDE4.8090506@verizon.net> References: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> <43D6EDE4.8090506@verizon.net> Message-ID: <43D78EFD.1080800@att.net> DonH wrote: > > 2. It is best to maintain your data in a commercial general database > program like Access, FileMaker, Paradox, etc. Sorry, it just struck me that different worlds have different perceptions. When I see "commercial general database program", I think of Oracle, Informix, DB2, Sybase, MS SQL, etc., and would probably expect them to be around longer than say Access, which is a minor product of a major company which also sells a "real" database. From jr50wv at yahoo.com Wed Jan 25 06:46:27 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Wed Jan 25 06:46:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Databases Message-ID: <20060125144627.48795.qmail@web34606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> HI all: We have a water quality group with 30,000 sample points in a MS Access database, and each of them has myriads of test results and bug population counts associated with it. We plan to migrate that data to Oracle ASAP because that is way too much data for MS Access, I fear that it will Pop! and be gone one day. Regarding Macs, I would recommend Filemaker Pro as a commercial DB for that platform, because Microsoft is a competitor of Apple, and recently stopped supporting some of their (MS) software on the Apple platforms. Nothing says they have to support MS Office/Access on Apple systems if they change their minds or the competetive picture begins to change. MS is well known for their unusual responses to competition. Others say it isn't available, I'll take their word, we don't use Macs much at work, just the graphics guys. I know an IT guy at EPA who has the entire US Census data set on Filemaker Pro, so it will handle your collection, anyone's collection, even the National Museum's. But it isn't free. PostGreSQL is also free (Open source) and closer to an enterprise database than MySQL. Both are commercialized open source databases and are probably the best bet for being acccessible into the distant future because the source code is freely available. I haven't gotten anywhere with OpenOffice DB yet, tho I understand if is pretty good once you learn it's features and "features" ("That's not a bug, that's a "Feature"!). JR --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 25 07:47:25 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Jan 25 07:47:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections In-Reply-To: <001101c62115$d6f5a350$a58c4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <20060125154725.12705.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think this is the bottom line- it doesn't matter what platform or software you use, as long as it is a "relational" database. You can set it up to contain whatever fields you feel are important to you- just give it plenty of thought before you start, since changing the layout in mid-stream can be difficult. And, start soon. It won't get easier! Jim Daly --- Lawrence Rush wrote: > Most collectors use MS Access, but there are several > others out there. One > important consideration for database programs is to > sure that it is a > "relational" database, that is, it can search on any > field of all of the > records. This allows you to find all records in your > collection which meet > the criteria you enter in the search field. Ex. find > all specimens from > Madagascar, or find all specimens of Apatite, find > all specimens that cost > less than $30, etc. Most of today's programs are > relational, but some of the > cheaper ones do not use this feature. > > Larry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gemcollectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal > collections > > > > > >> > >> From: ROCKCURRIER@cs.com > >> Date: 2006/01/24 Tue AM 04:00:53 EST > >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal > collections > >> > > If you decide to put your collection on a computer > you should also try and > > find a program that you can use to catalogue your > collection, sort it in > > what ever way you want and to print out labels for > your specimens at the > > same time. After all, if you have gone to the > trouble of entering the data > > about your specimens it doesn't make since that > you should have to enter > > the data again on a label. That is twice the work. > If the program has find > > and replace functions this will cut down a lot on > ! > >> the work you have to do when you have to correct > mistakes you made in > >> locality name spellings or to change your > locality information to more > >> complete locality information or to change the > locality names when they > >> change. (German West Africa, S.W. Africa and > finally Namibia. > > > > Rock: > > > > Good article as usual. > > > > Do you know of a good program? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Wed Jan 25 08:08:46 2006 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Wed Jan 25 08:08:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections References: <20060125154725.12705.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006a01c621c9$9f1870c0$62b0fea9@TOSHIBA> Hi all. It would be interesting if some examples of suceeded access databases could be posted to the list. I still have some dificulty with the insertion of photos with my one, per ex., but as soon as it works, I can send it to anyone interested. OK, it is in portuguese, but it is not difficult to adapt it to a civilized language. Armando Afonso ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections >I think this is the bottom line- it doesn't matter > what platform or software you use, as long as it is a > "relational" database. You can set it up to contain > whatever fields you feel are important to you- just > give it plenty of thought before you start, since > changing the layout in mid-stream can be difficult. > And, start soon. It won't get easier! > Jim Daly > > --- Lawrence Rush wrote: > >> Most collectors use MS Access, but there are several >> others out there. One >> important consideration for database programs is to >> sure that it is a >> "relational" database, that is, it can search on any >> field of all of the >> records. This allows you to find all records in your >> collection which meet >> the criteria you enter in the search field. Ex. find >> all specimens from >> Madagascar, or find all specimens of Apatite, find >> all specimens that cost >> less than $30, etc. Most of today's programs are >> relational, but some of the >> cheaper ones do not use this feature. >> >> Larry >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock >> and gemcollectors" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:58 PM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal >> collections >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> From: ROCKCURRIER@cs.com >> >> Date: 2006/01/24 Tue AM 04:00:53 EST >> >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal >> collections >> >> >> > If you decide to put your collection on a computer >> you should also try and >> > find a program that you can use to catalogue your >> collection, sort it in >> > what ever way you want and to print out labels for >> your specimens at the >> > same time. After all, if you have gone to the >> trouble of entering the data >> > about your specimens it doesn't make since that >> you should have to enter >> > the data again on a label. That is twice the work. >> If the program has find >> > and replace functions this will cut down a lot on >> ! >> >> the work you have to do when you have to correct >> mistakes you made in >> >> locality name spellings or to change your >> locality information to more >> >> complete locality information or to change the >> locality names when they >> >> change. (German West Africa, S.W. Africa and >> finally Namibia. >> > >> > Rock: >> > >> > Good article as usual. >> > >> > Do you know of a good program? >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Jan 25 08:10:23 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Jan 25 08:10:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bad business at the Burke Museum References: <6.2.3.4.0.20060125093653.01c96548@mail.binghamton.edu> Message-ID: <01c801c621c9$d9276aa0$6602a8c0@remains> This story is from the Seattle Weekly...here's the link: http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/0604/burke.php I love this kind of thing.......a private collector collects a single fossilised bone or brachiopod illegally, and the authorities are down on him like an anvil. The National Guard has also been sent in to put an end to those nasty private fossil collectors. Here we have a story about an academic who is 100 times worse than any irresponsible private collector I have ever known......let's see how quickly the FBI investigates and arrests him..... In early November, three experts in fossil collecting and curation arrived at the University of Washington's Burke Museum to assess the state of the museum's assembly of 42,000 vertebrate bones. On Jan. 6, they submitted their report to Arts and Sciences Dean David Hodge. Last Friday, Jan. 20, the Burke issued a press release stating that the report was "complimentary to the Burke Museum's professionalism." The full report tells a different story: one of 35 years of curatorial secrecy, carelessness, and misdirection that may have done irreparable harm to the integrity of the Burke's fossil collection. The Burke's bone problem first became public in April 2003, when Seattle Weekly reported that both a UW undergrad and a Burke employee had complained to the administration of unprofessional conduct on the part of UW geology professor John M. Rensberger during a chaotic July 2002 field trip to the fossil beds of eastern Montana. The employee, Bruce Crowley, began to suspect that Rensberger had not obtained proper federal permits for the projected dig, and the professor's secretive and erratic behavior on the way east led Crowley to insist on seeing the required permit. Instead, Rensberger dropped him at the Billings bus station and continued alone. (The student had already had enough and bailed.) Removing, selling, trading, or otherwise disposing of fossil material from a federal site is a felony. This is potential bad news for Rensberger, who retired from the university in 2004 but continues to be active in the profession, giving interviews to science reporters.In the course of looking into the complaints, university disciplinary authorities learned that the 2002 incident was nothing unusual where Rensberger was concerned. Despite the professor's refusal to cooperate, it was learned that he was widely suspected of frequent failure to secure the proper permits for fossil collecting on federal and tribal lands, and a cursory survey of records of material in the Burke's collection indicated that many, if not most, items collected and cataloged by Rensberger during his 35-year UW career might be questionable as to source, identification, and ownership. Just how widespread the problem was wasn't evident until the three-scientist team turned in the results of a week's rummage through the Burke's collection. (See "The Burke's Bare Bones," Nov. 16, 2005.) In language more reminiscent of a prosecutorial indictment than a scientific report, the team enumerated its findings: . In visits to 72 sites in Wyoming, Montana, and Oregon over 35 years, Rensberger had a valid permit for only four. (This total does not include trips over the same period to Nevada, Idaho, North and South Dakota, New Mexico, and California.) . Locality data-essential in establishing the scientific significance of specimens-"was conducted with a disregard for completeness and accuracy, either through carelessness or deliberate falsification," say the authors. More specifically, they say, "Locality data in a museum catalog may appear to be very accurate, when in fact it may only be very precise . . . and therefore entirely misleading. . . . An unskilled, lazy, or deceptive individual can create serious damage to the integrity of locality data." . Notes taken during collecting are the basic data for making sense of a collection. No notes by Rensberger were found at the Burke, "although some notes were found on torn pieces of brown paper bags," and the professor explicitly denied that any existed. He also made a practice of collecting notes made by his students. "Failure to keep field notes, retaining them as the collector's personal property, or simply discarding them is extremely poor practice, if not worse." . "Vertebrate fossils collected under a permit remain the property of the federal government in perpetuity. They cannot be traded, bartered, or sold," the scientists reported. Yet, "[a] note found in a drawer states that several boxes from a National Park Service site were exchanged with a European museum. These specimens could not legally be exchanged without permission, and there is no record of which specimens or how many were exchanged, if any exchange forms were generated, or if any material was received for these specimens." In any case, "[n]o permit was issued for their collection." . "It was well known in the vertebrate paleontology community that access to collections and data in the Burke Museum was strictly controlled by Dr. Rensberger. Many paleontologists and their students who requested access were denied, and the few who did receive permission were allowed to see only selected specimens under certain conditions. . . . [B]ecause many of the specimens were collected from federal lands, access to them cannot be denied to any qualified investigator. Although the specimens are in the possession of the Burke Museum, they remain the property of the federal government and hence all Americans." Removing, selling, trading, or otherwise disposing of fossil material from a federal site is a felony. This is potential bad news for Rensberger, who retired from the university in 2004 but continues to be active in the profession, giving interviews to science reporters on points of interest in his specialty. It is in a way even worse news for the UW, for whom the work and expense of cleaning up the Burke collection is only beginning. Someone's going to have to be hired to go through the collections piece by piece to identify as best as possible who the likely legal owner is-tribe, Bureau of Land Management, National Park Service, or others. Then, each owner must be contacted and asked how the Burke should proceed to make restitution. Former colleagues and students have to be contacted to see if they possess any field notes that might cast light on the identity of questionable objects. The Office of the Dean of Arts and Sciences is stuck with paying for the job, which is sure to cost tens of thousands of dollars. Among the steps required to rehabilitate the Burke's collections, the investigators cited as the No. 1 priority: "Continue to insist that Dr. Rensberger provide his original field notes and detailed maps." On Thursday, Jan. 19, two detectives from the UW Police Department made a morning call at Rensberger's home in Seattle's North Beach neighborhood and departed with 10 spiral-bound notebooks, delivering them to the Burke's new director, Julie Stein. Ten notebooks to cover 35 years of digging? At least it's a start. Meanwhile, one big question remains. The first clear warning from a Burke staff member that things might be criminally amiss with the Burke's bone collections was sent up the university chain of command in 1989. Why did 17 years pass before anyone looked into the matter? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tfa at brickengraver.com Wed Jan 25 09:20:05 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Jan 25 09:19:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Databases In-Reply-To: <20060125144627.48795.qmail@web34606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000401c621d3$96ca1540$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Its true that Access has its limtations but it is very easy to upscale to MS SQL. I have written a db app in Access that essentially keeps up with hundreds of datapoints and thousands of test results for the operation of a Waste Water Treatment plant and has been rock steady for 6 years. If it gets to the limits of Access, there is a wizard that will upscale to MS SQL. Or just use Access to create the front end. There is no mineral collection in the world that would tax the capabilities of Access (Or Filemaker or almost any other one). I used it because I could get it to do things that I wanted reasonably quickly. But anyone embarking on writing an app should understand there is still a lot of work to get it properly configured and then a great deal more to write the interface. TommyTommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J. R. Hodel Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 9:46 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Databases HI all: We have a water quality group with 30,000 sample points in a MS Access database, and each of them has myriads of test results and bug population counts associated with it. We plan to migrate that data to Oracle ASAP because that is way too much data for MS Access, I fear that it will Pop! and be gone one day. Regarding Macs, I would recommend Filemaker Pro as a commercial DB for that platform, because Microsoft is a competitor of Apple, and recently stopped supporting some of their (MS) software on the Apple platforms. Nothing says they have to support MS Office/Access on Apple systems if they change their minds or the competetive picture begins to change. MS is well known for their unusual responses to competition. Others say it isn't available, I'll take their word, we don't use Macs much at work, just the graphics guys. I know an IT guy at EPA who has the entire US Census data set on Filemaker Pro, so it will handle your collection, anyone's collection, even the National Museum's. But it isn't free. PostGreSQL is also free (Open source) and closer to an enterprise database than MySQL. Both are commercialized open source databases and are probably the best bet for being acccessible into the distant future because the source code is freely available. I haven't gotten anywhere with OpenOffice DB yet, tho I understand if is pretty good once you learn it's features and "features" ("That's not a bug, that's a "Feature"!). JR --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tfa at brickengraver.com Wed Jan 25 09:25:38 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Wed Jan 25 09:25:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections In-Reply-To: <006a01c621c9$9f1870c0$62b0fea9@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <000501c621d4$5c69aa90$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Armmando, I think the key is not to save the pictures in the database itself, but only a link to the picture. http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm Watch out large page Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Armando Afonso Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:09 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections Hi all. It would be interesting if some examples of suceeded access databases could be posted to the list. I still have some dificulty with the insertion of photos with my one, per ex., but as soon as it works, I can send it to anyone interested. OK, it is in portuguese, but it is not difficult to adapt it to a civilized language. Armando Afonso ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 3:47 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections >I think this is the bottom line- it doesn't matter > what platform or software you use, as long as it is a > "relational" database. You can set it up to contain > whatever fields you feel are important to you- just > give it plenty of thought before you start, since > changing the layout in mid-stream can be difficult. > And, start soon. It won't get easier! > Jim Daly > > --- Lawrence Rush wrote: > >> Most collectors use MS Access, but there are several >> others out there. One >> important consideration for database programs is to >> sure that it is a >> "relational" database, that is, it can search on any >> field of all of the >> records. This allows you to find all records in your >> collection which meet >> the criteria you enter in the search field. Ex. find >> all specimens from >> Madagascar, or find all specimens of Apatite, find >> all specimens that cost >> less than $30, etc. Most of today's programs are >> relational, but some of the >> cheaper ones do not use this feature. >> >> Larry >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock >> and gemcollectors" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:58 PM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal >> collections >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> From: ROCKCURRIER@cs.com >> >> Date: 2006/01/24 Tue AM 04:00:53 EST >> >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal >> collections >> >> >> > If you decide to put your collection on a computer >> you should also try and >> > find a program that you can use to catalogue your >> collection, sort it in >> > what ever way you want and to print out labels for >> your specimens at the >> > same time. After all, if you have gone to the >> trouble of entering the data >> > about your specimens it doesn't make since that >> you should have to enter >> > the data again on a label. That is twice the work. >> If the program has find >> > and replace functions this will cut down a lot on >> ! >> >> the work you have to do when you have to correct >> mistakes you made in >> >> locality name spellings or to change your >> locality information to more >> >> complete locality information or to change the >> locality names when they >> >> change. (German West Africa, S.W. Africa and >> finally Namibia. >> > >> > Rock: >> > >> > Good article as usual. >> > >> > Do you know of a good program? >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Wed Jan 25 09:42:06 2006 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Wed Jan 25 09:42:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections References: <000501c621d4$5c69aa90$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <008b01c621d6$a94f43e0$62b0fea9@TOSHIBA> Very impressive. A kind of overkill, in face of my very basic requirements. AA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 5:25 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > Armmando, > I think the key is not to save the pictures in the database itself, but > only > a link to the picture. > > http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm > Watch out large page > > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > > Walker Percy > Signposts in a Strange Land > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Armando Afonso > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:09 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > > Hi all. > > It would be interesting if some examples of suceeded access databases > could > be posted to the list. > I still have some dificulty with the insertion of photos with my one, per > ex., but as soon as it works, I can send it to anyone interested. > OK, it is in portuguese, but it is not difficult to adapt it to a > civilized > language. > > Armando Afonso > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Daly" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 3:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > > >>I think this is the bottom line- it doesn't matter >> what platform or software you use, as long as it is a >> "relational" database. You can set it up to contain >> whatever fields you feel are important to you- just >> give it plenty of thought before you start, since >> changing the layout in mid-stream can be difficult. >> And, start soon. It won't get easier! >> Jim Daly >> >> --- Lawrence Rush wrote: >> >>> Most collectors use MS Access, but there are several >>> others out there. One >>> important consideration for database programs is to >>> sure that it is a >>> "relational" database, that is, it can search on any >>> field of all of the >>> records. This allows you to find all records in your >>> collection which meet >>> the criteria you enter in the search field. Ex. find >>> all specimens from >>> Madagascar, or find all specimens of Apatite, find >>> all specimens that cost >>> less than $30, etc. Most of today's programs are >>> relational, but some of the >>> cheaper ones do not use this feature. >>> >>> Larry >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock >>> and gemcollectors" >>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:58 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal >>> collections >>> >>> >>> > >>> >> >>> >> From: ROCKCURRIER@cs.com >>> >> Date: 2006/01/24 Tue AM 04:00:53 EST >>> >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >>> >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal >>> collections >>> >> >>> > If you decide to put your collection on a computer >>> you should also try and >>> > find a program that you can use to catalogue your >>> collection, sort it in >>> > what ever way you want and to print out labels for >>> your specimens at the >>> > same time. After all, if you have gone to the >>> trouble of entering the data >>> > about your specimens it doesn't make since that >>> you should have to enter >>> > the data again on a label. That is twice the work. >>> If the program has find >>> > and replace functions this will cut down a lot on >>> ! >>> >> the work you have to do when you have to correct >>> mistakes you made in >>> >> locality name spellings or to change your >>> locality information to more >>> >> complete locality information or to change the >>> locality names when they >>> >> change. (German West Africa, S.W. Africa and >>> finally Namibia. >>> > >>> > Rock: >>> > >>> > Good article as usual. >>> > >>> > Do you know of a good program? >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> > Subscription Services: >>> > >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From afox at panix.com Wed Jan 25 09:43:19 2006 From: afox at panix.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Wed Jan 25 09:43:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Databases In-Reply-To: <20060125144627.48795.qmail@web34606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060125144627.48795.qmail@web34606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > PostGreSQL is also free (Open source) and closer to an enterprise > database than MySQL. Both are commercialized open source databases and Though this is straying a bit from being on-topic, one nice thing about PostgreSQL is that, when using the PostGIS extensions, the database can be made 'spatially aware'. For example, you could store both the ID numbers of specific samples, AND a series of XYZ points indicating exactly where in a pit they were collected. And display it on the web using a mapserver (Manifold, UMN Mapserver, etc). My geeky head is going back to work now.... a. -- afox at panix dot com || http://www.panix.com/~afox "Pluralitas non est ponda sine neccesitate" "Plurality should not be posited without necessity" -- William of Ockham (1285 - 1349 AD) From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Jan 25 16:53:36 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Jan 25 16:52:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <43D78EFD.1080800@att.net> References: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> <43D6EDE4.8090506@verizon.net> <43D78EFD.1080800@att.net> Message-ID: <43D81D90.7090004@verizon.net> Al Balmer wrote: > Sorry, it just struck me that different worlds have different > perceptions. When I see "commercial general database program", I think > of Oracle, Informix, DB2, Sybase, MS SQL, etc., and would probably > expect them to be around longer than say Access, which is a minor > product of a major company which also sells a "real" database. Of course I meant commercial programs for the home and small business user. In the interest of completeness I could have mentioned the powerhouse systems (though I wouldn't class MS*SQL with Oracle etc.), but that's like buying a Mack truck with 37 gears to go to the corner store once a week. Now that I've read all the messages, I see that there is a common theme: make backups, make exports, make paper copies; no format lasts forever; keep current with upgrades and conversions. When I started in computing, Digital Equipment Corportation was a top company and VAX/VMS was a popular operating system. We did backups on 8-track tapes and 300 MB disk drives were huge. Fifteen years later, when I got out, most IT professionals under 30 have never heard of DEC (RIP), you couldn't buy a 300 MB storage medium if you tried, and the solution to every problem is "reinstall the system" instead of actually fixing the problem at the operating system level; and if you asked a fresh college graduate to repair a disk problem by "absolute sector editing," they would have no idea what to do and (as has happened to me) might tell you that you were crazy and you can't do that. Well I think we made the point that there are risks involved with committing your data to computer. However, with some care and attention, people won't have any long-term problems and the rewards are well worth the effort. Don From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Wed Jan 25 17:35:08 2006 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Wed Jan 25 17:35:20 2006 Subject: Computer Memories Was --> [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <43D81D90.7090004@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20060126013516.UXMO23065.tomts43-srv.bellnexxia.net@D8YF2G81> Replies in the original Text -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: January 25, 2006 7:54 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections Don H Wrote > backups on 8-track tapes Psst 9 Track (8 track was in the car) Fifteen years later, when I got out, most IT professionals under 30 have never heard of DEC (RIP), you couldn't buy a 300 MB storage medium if you tried, and the solution to every problem is "reinstall the system" instead of actually fixing the problem at the operating system level; and if you asked a fresh college graduate to repair a disk problem by "absolute sector editing," they would have no idea what to do and (as has happened to me) might tell you that you were crazy and you can't do that. Hmmm, Sort of the look when I tell how with the old McDonnell Douglas Minicomputers that ran PICK we had that we could stop the clock, look at the register values and directly patch the program and then restart the processors. Once we were happy we even could save the "patched" program to tape for future reuse. I wonder how many people today remember when patching a program meant knowing Assembler and Machine code. Kay From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Jan 25 17:46:36 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Jan 25 17:46:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] link pix in Filemaker Pro? References: <000501c621d4$5c69aa90$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <005701c6221a$57fd25e0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I would like to know how to link the picture in Filemaker Pro. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > Armmando, > I think the key is not to save the pictures in the database itself, but > only > a link to the picture. > > http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm > Watch out large page > > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > > Walker Percy > Signposts in a Strange Land From albalmer at att.net Wed Jan 25 19:26:31 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jan 25 19:26:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineral collections In-Reply-To: <43D81D90.7090004@verizon.net> References: <43D69461.5090300@hal-pc.org> <43D6EDE4.8090506@verizon.net> <43D78EFD.1080800@att.net> <43D81D90.7090004@verizon.net> Message-ID: <43D84167.7010205@att.net> DonH wrote: > Al Balmer wrote: > >> Sorry, it just struck me that different worlds have different >> perceptions. When I see "commercial general database program", I think >> of Oracle, Informix, DB2, Sybase, MS SQL, etc., and would probably >> expect them to be around longer than say Access, which is a minor >> product of a major company which also sells a "real" database. > > > Of course I meant commercial programs for the home and small business > user. In the interest of completeness I could have mentioned the > powerhouse systems (though I wouldn't class MS*SQL with Oracle etc.), Neither would I, but in terms of market share, it's getting there. > but that's like buying a Mack truck with 37 gears to go to the corner > store once a week. > > Now that I've read all the messages, I see that there is a common theme: > make backups, make exports, make paper copies; no format lasts forever; Yup. With all our technology, paper seems to be the archival medium you can count on most. > keep current with upgrades and conversions. When I started in > computing, Digital Equipment Corportation was a top company and VAX/VMS > was a popular operating system. We did backups on 8-track tapes and 300 > MB disk drives were huge. Youngster . When I started, DEC made modular circuit boards, one flip-flop per board. When I was at MIT, the hot machine was the IBM 704. In my first computing job, we used paper tape, later replaced by 8" floppies. The first hard drives we had were made by Pertec and held (IIRC) 10 MB. > Fifteen years later, when I got out, most IT > professionals under 30 have never heard of DEC (RIP), you couldn't buy a > 300 MB storage medium if you tried, and the solution to every problem is > "reinstall the system" instead of actually fixing the problem at the > operating system level; Yep. I've been told that very thing by Microsoft tech reps too many times. > and if you asked a fresh college graduate to > repair a disk problem by "absolute sector editing," they would have no > idea what to do and (as has happened to me) might tell you that you were > crazy and you can't do that. > > Well I think we made the point that there are risks involved with > committing your data to computer. However, with some care and > attention, people won't have any long-term problems and the rewards are > well worth the effort. > > Don From rpr at heidelberg.edu Wed Jan 25 19:40:17 2006 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Wed Jan 25 19:40:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] link pix in Filemaker Pro? In-Reply-To: <005701c6221a$57fd25e0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <000501c621d4$5c69aa90$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> <005701c6221a$57fd25e0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: My knowledge may not be up to date, and may be Mac specific, but I don't know that you can store a LINK to a picture in Filemaker Pro. I store (size-optimized copies of) pictures directly in a field of my Filemaker Pro database, but of course this costs file size. Whether file size is an issue any more depends on how modern your computer is, how big its hard drive is, etc etc. My mineral catalog, which is approaching 5000 records, most of which do not include photos, is about 35 Megs, which I used to think was HUGE. But ONE photo at maximum resolution from my current digital camera is 17 Megs. My folder of family pictures from the past year is slightly less than 600 Megs. My current hard drive holds 75 Gigabytes, and after three years I still have 59 Gig available. So, while it serves my personal and professional needs, I suppose I'm not a power user! >:^) Food for thought! Pete Richards >I would like to know how to link the picture in Filemaker Pro. > >Alan > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" >To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors'" >Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:25 PM >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > >>Armmando, >>I think the key is not to save the pictures in the database itself, but only >>a link to the picture. >> >>http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm >>Watch out large page >> >> >>Tommy Armstrong >>PO Box 484 >>Lillington, NC 27546 >>http://www.brickengraver.com >> >>...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about >>individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. >> >>Walker Percy >>Signposts in a Strange Land > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jan 25 21:37:44 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jan 25 21:54:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADVERTISEMENT: OreRockOn On CD V 2.2 blowout lol In-Reply-To: <001301c61b23$8a3b5f70$0501a8c0@mobulis> References: <001301c61b23$8a3b5f70$0501a8c0@mobulis> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060125212841.039a69c8@orerockon.com> I have a few copies of the previous version of my OR WA and ID rockhounding site CD (V 2.2 and a couple V 2.1's) and one copy of the DVD (V 2.2) (click the CD link below to learn more) that I am sick of looking at sitting there gathering dust on my bookshelf. So, on a first-come first-served basis, I am blowing them out for $15.00 (they were $35) + media mail ($1.50) or priority mail ($4.25) shipping. Don't order off of the CD page or you will be sending me $35 for version 3; instead please respond to this email. The difference between V 2.2 and V 3 is explained right at the top of the page. (yeah, you guessed it, we are a one-job household again) :( Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD Lapidary Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/lapidary Knapping Materials: http://OreRockOn.com/knappers Fossils & Other Stuff: http://OreRockOn.com/for_sale Rockhound's Bookstore: http://OreRockOn.com/rock_bookstore From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jan 25 22:01:14 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jan 25 22:01:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADVERTISEMENT: CORRECTION OreRockOn On CD In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060125212841.039a69c8@orerockon.com> References: <001301c61b23$8a3b5f70$0501a8c0@mobulis> <7.0.0.16.2.20060125212841.039a69c8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060125215736.03a63680@orerockon.com> Sorry, I just found out that media mail went to $1.75. I shoulda known they weren't going to raise first class and priority and not media mail. Too bad it wasn't by the same percentage :( Now, if they would only stop "losing" and mangling media mail. Do they "lose" or destroy it because they think that their citizens are trying to rip them off by paying the lower rate? Enquiring minds want to know... At 09:37 PM 1/25/2006, you wrote: >I have a few copies of the previous version of my OR WA and ID >rockhounding site CD (V 2.2 and a couple V 2.1's) and one copy of >the DVD (V 2.2) (click the CD link below to learn more) that I am >sick of looking at sitting there gathering dust on my bookshelf. So, >on a first-come first-served basis, I am blowing them out for $15.00 >(they were $35) + media mail ($1.50) or priority mail ($4.25) >shipping. Don't order off of the CD page or you will be sending me >$35 for version 3; instead please respond to this email. The >difference between V 2.2 and V 3 is explained right at the top of >the page. (yeah, you guessed it, we are a one-job household again) :( Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From murowchickj at umkc.edu Thu Jan 26 09:09:12 2006 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (James Murowchick) Date: Thu Jan 26 09:09:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] link pix in Filemaker Pro? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Pete-- I've been looking at FMP about linking to pictures. I found (in the FileMaker Help file) that the Mac version does NOT do OLE linking (the Windows version does), but you can put a URL into a text field. I haven't tried it yet, but I think you could use that URL to link to a file on the computer (or elsewhere). The link would have to be different for each record, and the picture would not appear in a printed record for the specimen, though it could be printed separately. Not a very good solution. So as best I can tell, the photo must be embedded in the container field as part of the database. If the image resolution is reduced, say for screen viewing and the image size kept small, that might keep the overall size manageable. Please let me know if you find a better way. Jim Murowchick On 1/25/06 9:40 PM, "R. Peter Richards" wrote: > My knowledge may not be up to date, and may be Mac specific, but I > don't know that you can store a LINK to a picture in Filemaker Pro. > I store (size-optimized copies of) pictures directly in a field of my > Filemaker Pro database, but of course this costs file size. Whether > file size is an issue any more depends on how modern your computer > is, how big its hard drive is, etc etc. > > My mineral catalog, which is approaching 5000 records, most of which > do not include photos, is about 35 Megs, which I used to think was > HUGE. But ONE photo at maximum resolution from my current digital > camera is 17 Megs. My folder of family pictures from the past year is > slightly less than 600 Megs. > > My current hard drive holds 75 Gigabytes, and after three years I > still have 59 Gig available. So, while it serves my personal and > professional needs, I suppose I'm not a power user! >:^) > > Food for thought! > Pete Richards > > > >> I would like to know how to link the picture in Filemaker Pro. >> >> Alan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" >> To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors'" >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:25 PM >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections >> >>> Armmando, >>> I think the key is not to save the pictures in the database itself, but only >>> a link to the picture. >>> >>> http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm >>> Watch out large page >>> >>> >>> Tommy Armstrong >>> PO Box 484 >>> Lillington, NC 27546 >>> http://www.brickengraver.com >>> >>> ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about >>> individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. >>> >>> Walker Percy >>> Signposts in a Strange Land >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From samkarl at optonline.net Wed Jan 25 15:25:08 2006 From: samkarl at optonline.net (Sam and Karl) Date: Thu Jan 26 09:52:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounds list Message-ID: Hi, I'd like to be added to the rockhounds list if possible, I've heard good things about it! I would prefer the daily digest. Thanks! -Sam From lanny at lrream.com Thu Jan 26 11:39:10 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Jan 26 11:39:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] link pix in Filemaker Pro? In-Reply-To: <005701c6221a$57fd25e0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <000501c621d4$5c69aa90$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> <005701c6221a$57fd25e0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <1d1594fbee6e7c794650387ac3cd2248@lrream.com> Alan, Pete, Jim and others, Linking a photo in Filemaker Pro is simple. Use Insert to put the photo in the container (do not paste it in), at the bottom of the window where you select the photo to Insert is a check box to insert only a link to the photo. Using a link will not increase the size of the database, but has the drawback of the link breaking if you move the folder of photos or change the name of a photo. I keep my photo folders in the same folder as the mineral catalog database. Also, reportedly, if you put a photo into a container field by pasting it in, you apparently only get a highly lossy jpeg image. If you put it in by using Insert (either directly or only a link) you get the photo in the original format. Regards, Lanny On Jan 25, 2006, at 5:46 PM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > I would like to know how to link the picture in Filemaker Pro. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" > > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors'" > Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:25 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections > > >> Armmando, >> I think the key is not to save the pictures in the database itself, >> but only >> a link to the picture. >> >> http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm >> Watch out large page >> >> >> Tommy Armstrong >> PO Box 484 >> Lillington, NC 27546 >> http://www.brickengraver.com >> >> ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about >> individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. >> >> Walker Percy >> Signposts in a Strange Land > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From murowchickj at umkc.edu Thu Jan 26 11:41:43 2006 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Thu Jan 26 11:41:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] link pix in Filemaker Pro? In-Reply-To: <1d1594fbee6e7c794650387ac3cd2248@lrream.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Lanny--That's just the info I needed. Jim Murowchick On 1/26/06 1:39 PM, "Lanny" wrote: > Alan, Pete, Jim and others, > > Linking a photo in Filemaker Pro is simple. Use Insert to put the photo > in the container (do not paste it in), at the bottom of the window > where you select the photo to Insert is a check box to insert only a > link to the photo. Using a link will not increase the size of the > database, but has the drawback of the link breaking if you move the > folder of photos or change the name of a photo. I keep my photo folders > in the same folder as the mineral catalog database. > > Also, reportedly, if you put a photo into a container field by pasting > it in, you apparently only get a highly lossy jpeg image. If you put > it in by using Insert (either directly or only a link) you get the > photo in the original format. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > On Jan 25, 2006, at 5:46 PM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > >> I would like to know how to link the picture in Filemaker Pro. >> >> Alan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" >> >> To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors'" >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:25 PM >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections >> >> >>> Armmando, >>> I think the key is not to save the pictures in the database itself, >>> but only >>> a link to the picture. >>> >>> http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm >>> Watch out large page >>> >>> >>> Tommy Armstrong >>> PO Box 484 >>> Lillington, NC 27546 >>> http://www.brickengraver.com >>> >>> ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about >>> individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. >>> >>> Walker Percy >>> Signposts in a Strange Land >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tfa at brickengraver.com Thu Jan 26 13:31:06 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Thu Jan 26 13:30:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] link pix in Filemaker Pro? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001301c622bf$d17a50f0$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Althogh I am not versed in Filemaker, I would assume that it is pretty much like Access in having a hyperlink data type, and that if you put a url into a field of that type, it would act as a hyperlink. This is the way I implemented attaching pictures to a specific rock in my Access application. With the caveat that instead of linking to an existing picture somewhere on the hard drive directly, I wrote a utility in which you browse to that picture, actually copy that picture into a subfolder of the main application, and rename it with the specimen number, mineral name, and locality information (at least the mame of the mine). In this way even if your db completely crashed, and you had printed out a paper catalog, you could easily go to the subfolder and match up the pictures with the specimen and recreate everything. The beauty of this method is that it eliminates losing the link--since the link is a universal url. That is the application, no matter where it is installed or the name of its master folder, goes and prefixes its path to the subfolder before it displays it so that it is pointing to an acutal file. For example to link a picture what I have the program do is : 1 copy a renamed picture into the subfolder Images 2 create a link to it and put that in a hyperlink field--this link does not contain the path of the application 3 The link is then for example "Images/00001_Calcite_U.S.A._Greely_Brushy_Creek_102631_.jpg" 4 the application folder might be for example "C:\Program Files\TommysMinDB" But since, at least in Access, it automatically searches for files, folders in or under the app folder, it will automatically open the picture with the above link in whatever program is registered to view .jpg files. This is very useful for viewing at full resolution and editing the picture, perhaps in Photoshop or whatever But to display the actual picture on a form, you have to set the picture property of an image control to the actual path of a file. So since the application knows where it is located, and you can get this easily in code, all that is necessary is to prefix the value stored in the hyperlink, ie "Images/00001_Calcite_U.S.A._Greely_Brushy_Creek_102631_.jpg" with the application path "C:\Program Files\TommysMinDB" + "\" and then you set the picture property to the actual file or "C:\Program Files\TommysMinDB\Images/00001_Calcite_U.S.A._Greely_Brushy_Creek_102631_.jp g" And voila, it is displayed with the record. There are three or four advantages to this system 1 the file name of the picture means something (The number at the beginning is the specimen number-the numbers on the end are a time stamp) 2 the file is COPIED to where the application knows where it is--but the original is left whereever it was originally located 3 one can open up the Images folder and all the pictures will sort by specimen number and in thumbnail view, you can see them all and open them from there 4 all pictures are at full resolution so can edit them and view them in their full glory (Access automatically creates a thumbnail on the fly the size of your picture control) 5 To back up all your information, simply back up the main application folder and all its subfolders. 6 You can search pictures by all the data that is also hooked to the specimen. Say for example, I want all pictures from Brushy Creek, and display them You can even copy it to a cd or dvd, and will still display, although you cannot edit or add any info since cd is read only This sounds very similar to what Larry does--he saves all his pictures in the in the same folder as his catalog database. This technique should work with Filemaker. My suggestion is that you at least rename the picture to match its specimen number and mineral name. You can easily do this in Finder or Windows Explorer. And then link to that file. I just automate all that. The beauty of having a consistant file naming rule is that even if FileMaker crashed, you would still know what picture went with what specimen, because you had printed out a catalog on paper and the picture's filename would contain that number. I used this linking process also with documents (which could be pictures, word files, pdf files--any kind of file) that you want to link to the specimen. Say a scan of a map of the the locality or a write up about the specimen. You can attach any kind of file with this method,and the database does not grow too large in size. Tommy -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Jim Murowchick Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:42 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] link pix in Filemaker Pro? Thanks, Lanny--That's just the info I needed. Jim Murowchick On 1/26/06 1:39 PM, "Lanny" wrote: > Alan, Pete, Jim and others, > > Linking a photo in Filemaker Pro is simple. Use Insert to put the > photo in the container (do not paste it in), at the bottom of the > window where you select the photo to Insert is a check box to insert > only a link to the photo. Using a link will not increase the size of > the database, but has the drawback of the link breaking if you move > the folder of photos or change the name of a photo. I keep my photo > folders in the same folder as the mineral catalog database. > > Also, reportedly, if you put a photo into a container field by pasting > it in, you apparently only get a highly lossy jpeg image. If you put > it in by using Insert (either directly or only a link) you get the > photo in the original format. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > On Jan 25, 2006, at 5:46 PM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > >> I would like to know how to link the picture in Filemaker Pro. >> >> Alan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" >> >> To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors'" >> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:25 PM >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cataloguing mineal collections >> >> >>> Armmando, >>> I think the key is not to save the pictures in the database itself, >>> but only a link to the picture. >>> >>> http://www.hockyjocky.com/mineral_database.htm >>> Watch out large page >>> >>> >>> Tommy Armstrong >>> PO Box 484 >>> Lillington, NC 27546 >>> http://www.brickengraver.com >>> >>> ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true >>> about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. >>> >>> Walker Percy >>> Signposts in a Strange Land >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From SMKELL45 at aol.com Thu Jan 26 18:37:15 2006 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 26 18:37:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Steacyite Message-ID: <30.1ff4e20.310ae15b@aol.com> Bought a specimen of Steacyite in Charoite, Aegerine and Feldspar. The location on the label is Murin Massif, Kola Peninsula, Russia. Now the closest that I have been able to get is the Murun Massif in Eastern Siberia, not near the Kola Peninsula. Any ideas on what the right location might be? I e-mailed the vender but so far no response. smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Jan 26 19:14:58 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Jan 26 19:14:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mindat question Message-ID: <013d01c622ef$daa89fd0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I've gotten mindat problems resolved from this list serve and I'm in a catch-22. I've tried to post on the forums and I get an error message that says, "The name you entered is already registered by another user. If you are that user, please login. Otherwise, please use another name." I am already logged in and don't have another name to use unless I have to make up something. I can't post the problem on the errors forum because of the error message. Any suggestions? Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 27 07:31:50 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Jan 27 07:31:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mindat question In-Reply-To: <013d01c622ef$daa89fd0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <20060127153150.47346.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Can you send an E-mail directly to Jolyon Ralph? Jim --- Alan Goldstein wrote: > I've gotten mindat problems resolved from this list > serve and I'm in a catch-22. I've tried to post on > the forums and I get an error message that says, > "The name you entered is already registered by > another user. If you are that user, please login. > Otherwise, please use another name." I am already > logged in and don't have another name to use unless > I have to make up something. I can't post the > problem on the errors forum because of the error > message. Any suggestions? > > Alan > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Jan 27 16:07:12 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Jan 27 16:07:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mindat question References: <20060127153150.47346.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003001c6239e$ca51ef10$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I can, but previous attempts to get questions answered by Jolyon last year did not result in a response. Other people stepped in the answer the questions. I thought I would try to go direct to the "hired" help again! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:31 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mindat question > Can you send an E-mail directly to Jolyon Ralph? > Jim > > --- Alan Goldstein wrote: > >> I've gotten mindat problems resolved from this list >> serve and I'm in a catch-22. I've tried to post on >> the forums and I get an error message that says, >> "The name you entered is already registered by >> another user. If you are that user, please login. >> Otherwise, please use another name." I am already >> logged in and don't have another name to use unless >> I have to make up something. I can't post the >> problem on the errors forum because of the error >> message. Any suggestions? >> >> Alan >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com Fri Jan 27 17:05:54 2006 From: dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com (Powell) Date: Fri Jan 27 17:05:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Mineral Patches on Ebay Message-ID: <001801c623a6$fdb504c0$6601a8c0@Powell> This is a shameless ad. Delete now if you don't want to be bothered. I have added a small number of mineral patches on ebay. They could be great for kids. Also, search for "mineral coloring books" and "mineral names" book. That's all. Thanks for looking. Blessings to all. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5660937825&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6248906893&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6248909718&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhoundsmovie at hotmail.com Fri Jan 27 17:29:54 2006 From: rockhoundsmovie at hotmail.com (RockHounds: The Movie) Date: Fri Jan 27 17:29:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral Message-ID: RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show For Immediate Release (Hi res Images Available on Request) Norman, OK – Now there’s one more reason to visit the world’s largest gem & mineral show. The 2006 Tucson Gem & Mineral Show will host a screening of “RockHounds: The Movie.” The screening will take place Saturday February 11 at 3:00 in the Copper Ballroom in the Tucson Convention Center. “We screened at gem & mineral shows across the country last year,” said executive producer and host Devin Dennie, “but we are really pleased about having a place in Tucson.” The Tucson Gem & Mineral show is widely considered on of the best in the world and in 2006 it will run from February 9 to the 12. “Rock hounds from all over the world flock to Tucson every year,” said the film’s director Todd Kent, “so we are excited about having an opportunity to screen before such a large audience.” In addition to gem & mineral shows, the documentary continues to tour the film festival circuit and was an official selection of Australia’s “SCINEMA ’05 – Festival of Science Film.” A short version of the film is also a part of the “OK Rocks!” exhibit at the Sam Noble Oklahoma Museum of Natural History in Norman, OK. The film showcases the fun, adventure and science behind the hobby of gem & mineral collecting and was produced by Explorer Multimedia Inc., in conjunction with the School of Geology & Geophysics at the University of Oklahoma. Topics include the World Championship Quartz Crystal Dig, hunting for fossils, the “Rock Food Table” and more. For more information about “RockHounds: The Movie” please visit http://www.RockHoundsMovie.com . Explorer Multimedia Inc., is a non profit 501 (c)(3) corporation. For more information please visit http://www.ExplorerMultimedia.org . For more on the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show please visit their website: http://www.tgms.org _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 27 17:37:45 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 27 17:37:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unpolished stone rings References: Message-ID: <43DACAD6.60B8@Tomaszewski.net> Jennifer, You might consider tumbled stones that have gone thru fine or pre-polish, but have not been polished. Continued wear, and rubbing by the owner would eventually bring them to a polish, much like a worry-stone. You could even find them naturally by visiting just about any beach. Another possibility is small crystals. I have seen jewelry made with uncut/unpolished herkimer diamonds (quartz) that I doubt could have been improved by cutting or polishing. Kreigh Wisdom of Stones wrote: > > Hi Edward, > As always, you're a wealth of information. I'd forgotten about bone, so > thanks for the reminder. As for stone needing shaping and some polishing, I > think I realize this but didn't think about it or note it in my email. I'm > find with light polishing to remove the rough edges, etc. I don't want it > polished to a shine but instead would like it to look as much in it's > natural state as possible. It's like wanting a ring made by a caveman :-) > any ideas? > > jennifer > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of > edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:04 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unpolished stone rings > > Dear Jennifer: Some natural things make nice rings, bracelets, or other body > were: I'n reminded of the movie Mondo Cane where a New Guinea native > withdrew the long bone inserted thru his septum, picked his teeth with it, > then put the instrument/jerelry back into its showplace. Bone, some types of > hair and fibers make suitable rings, given that it has been weathered > properly. Most rock is hard and rough,and like metal, requires shaping and > polishing. Even soft stuff. like serpentine, needs some work..EJW From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Jan 27 17:44:54 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Jan 27 17:43:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43DACC96.9000808@verizon.net> RockHounds: The Movie wrote: > RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show > > For Immediate Release (Hi res Images Available on Request) I'm still not sure of the motivation behind this, and how it is funded. Has anyone seen this entire video? I looked at the trailer and it seems rather narrowly focused. Don From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Fri Jan 27 18:28:51 2006 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Fri Jan 27 18:28:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Herkimer Rings Message-ID: <20060128022851.OVCW28960.ibm61aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Dear Kreigh: I suggest that Jennifer is referring to entire/whole hole rings made from a single piece, not set into something. I thought about the clay marbles I saw when I was a young'un. Used to glass and higher technology, the clayies seemed cheap, maybe even fake, especially with their chipped surfaces. Real agates, cut & tumbled, and also used for marbles. We could make rings out of terra cotta, like the MesoAmerican figurines. I think that Herks are a little hard for rings, and skin would do little to soften the edges. Like glass, they would inflict a lot of damage.EJ Wagner > > From: rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com > Date: 2006/01/27 Fri PM 09:00:40 EST > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 30 > > Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." > > > [Rockhounds-Digest] > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Steacyite (SMKELL45@aol.com) > 2. mindat question (Alan Goldstein) > 3. Re: mindat question (Jim Daly) > 4. Re: mindat question (Alan Goldstein) > 5. Ad: Mineral Patches on Ebay (Powell) > 6. PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the > Tucson Gem & Mineral (RockHounds: The Movie) > 7. Re: Re: unpolished stone rings (Kreigh Tomaszewski) > 8. Re: PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at > the Tucson Gem & Mineral (DonH) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:37:15 EST > From: SMKELL45@aol.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Steacyite > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Message-ID: <30.1ff4e20.310ae15b@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Bought a specimen of Steacyite in Charoite, Aegerine and Feldspar. The > location on the label is Murin Massif, Kola Peninsula, Russia. Now the closest > that I have been able to get is the Murun Massif in Eastern Siberia, not near > the Kola Peninsula. Any ideas on what the right location might be? I > e-mailed the vender but so far no response. smkell > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:14:58 -0500 > From: "Alan Goldstein" > Subject: [Rockhounds] mindat question > To: > Message-ID: <013d01c622ef$daa89fd0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > I've gotten mindat problems resolved from this list serve and I'm in a catch-22. I've tried to post on the forums and I get an error message that says, "The name you entered is already registered by another user. If you are that user, please login. Otherwise, please use another name." I am already logged in and don't have another name to use unless I have to make up something. I can't post the problem on the errors forum because of the error message. Any suggestions? > > Alan > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 07:31:50 -0800 (PST) > From: Jim Daly > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mindat question > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <20060127153150.47346.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Can you send an E-mail directly to Jolyon Ralph? > Jim > > --- Alan Goldstein wrote: > > > I've gotten mindat problems resolved from this list > > serve and I'm in a catch-22. I've tried to post on > > the forums and I get an error message that says, > > "The name you entered is already registered by > > another user. If you are that user, please login. > > Otherwise, please use another name." I am already > > logged in and don't have another name to use unless > > I have to make up something. I can't post the > > problem on the errors forum because of the error > > message. Any suggestions? > > > > Alan > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:07:12 -0500 > From: "Alan Goldstein" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mindat question > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <003001c6239e$ca51ef10$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I can, but previous attempts to get questions answered by Jolyon last year > did not result in a response. Other people stepped in the answer the > questions. I thought I would try to go direct to the "hired" help again! > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Daly" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:31 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mindat question > > > > Can you send an E-mail directly to Jolyon Ralph? > > Jim > > > > --- Alan Goldstein wrote: > > > >> I've gotten mindat problems resolved from this list > >> serve and I'm in a catch-22. I've tried to post on > >> the forums and I get an error message that says, > >> "The name you entered is already registered by > >> another user. If you are that user, please login. > >> Otherwise, please use another name." I am already > >> logged in and don't have another name to use unless > >> I have to make up something. I can't post the > >> problem on the errors forum because of the error > >> message. Any suggestions? > >> > >> Alan > >> > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >> --- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:05:54 -0500 > From: "Powell" > Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Mineral Patches on Ebay > To: "Rockhounds List" > Message-ID: <001801c623a6$fdb504c0$6601a8c0@Powell> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > This is a shameless ad. Delete now if you don't want to be bothered. > > I have added a small number of mineral patches on ebay. They could be great for kids. > > Also, search for "mineral coloring books" and "mineral names" book. > > That's all. Thanks for looking. > Blessings to all. > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5660937825&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6248906893&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6248909718&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:29:54 -0600 > From: "RockHounds: The Movie" > Subject: [Rockhounds] PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be > Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show > > For Immediate Release (Hi res Images Available on Request) > > Norman, OK ? Now there?s one more reason to visit the world?s largest gem & > mineral show. The 2006 Tucson Gem & Mineral Show will host a screening of > ?RockHounds: The Movie.? The screening will take place Saturday February 11 > at 3:00 in the Copper Ballroom in the Tucson Convention Center. > > ?We screened at gem & mineral shows across the country last year,? said > executive producer and host Devin Dennie, ?but we are really pleased about > having a place in Tucson.? The Tucson Gem & Mineral show is widely > considered on of the best in the world and in 2006 it will run from February > 9 to the 12. > > ?Rock hounds from all over the world flock to Tucson every year,? said the > film?s director Todd Kent, ?so we are excited about having an opportunity to > screen before such a large audience.? > > In addition to gem & mineral shows, the documentary continues to tour the > film festival circuit and was an official selection of Australia?s ?SCINEMA > ?05 ? Festival of Science Film.? A short version of the film is also a part > of the ?OK Rocks!? exhibit at the Sam Noble Oklahoma Museum of Natural > History in Norman, OK. > > The film showcases the fun, adventure and science behind the hobby of gem & > mineral collecting and was produced by Explorer Multimedia Inc., in > conjunction with the School of Geology & Geophysics at the University of > Oklahoma. Topics include the World Championship Quartz Crystal Dig, hunting > for fossils, the ?Rock Food Table? and more. > > For more information about ?RockHounds: The Movie? please visit > http://www.RockHoundsMovie.com . Explorer Multimedia Inc., is a non profit > 501 (c)(3) corporation. For more information please visit > http://www.ExplorerMultimedia.org . > > For more on the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show please visit their website: > http://www.tgms.org > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:37:45 -0500 > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unpolished stone rings > To: info@wisdomofstones.com, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list > for rock and gem collectors" > Message-ID: <43DACAD6.60B8@Tomaszewski.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Jennifer, > > You might consider tumbled stones that have gone thru fine or > pre-polish, but have not been polished. Continued wear, and rubbing by > the owner would eventually bring them to a polish, much like a > worry-stone. You could even find them naturally by visiting just about > any beach. > > Another possibility is small crystals. I have seen jewelry made with > uncut/unpolished herkimer diamonds (quartz) that I doubt could have been > improved by cutting or polishing. > > Kreigh > > > > > Wisdom of Stones wrote: > > > > Hi Edward, > > As always, you're a wealth of information. I'd forgotten about bone, so > > thanks for the reminder. As for stone needing shaping and some polishing, I > > think I realize this but didn't think about it or note it in my email. I'm > > find with light polishing to remove the rough edges, etc. I don't want it > > polished to a shine but instead would like it to look as much in it's > > natural state as possible. It's like wanting a ring made by a caveman :-) > > any ideas? > > > > jennifer > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of > > edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net > > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:04 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unpolished stone rings > > > > Dear Jennifer: Some natural things make nice rings, bracelets, or other body > > were: I'n reminded of the movie Mondo Cane where a New Guinea native > > withdrew the long bone inserted thru his septum, picked his teeth with it, > > then put the instrument/jerelry back into its showplace. Bone, some types of > > hair and fibers make suitable rings, given that it has been weathered > > properly. Most rock is hard and rough,and like metal, requires shaping and > > polishing. Even soft stuff. like serpentine, needs some work..EJW > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:44:54 -0800 > From: DonH > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be > Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <43DACC96.9000808@verizon.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > RockHounds: The Movie wrote: > > RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show > > > > For Immediate Release (Hi res Images Available on Request) > > > I'm still not sure of the motivation behind this, and how it is funded. > Has anyone seen this entire video? I looked at the trailer and it > seems rather narrowly focused. > > Don > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds mailing list > Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 30 > ****************************************** > From info at wisdomofstones.com Fri Jan 27 18:46:13 2006 From: info at wisdomofstones.com (Wisdom of Stones) Date: Fri Jan 27 18:45:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Herkimer Rings In-Reply-To: <20060128022851.OVCW28960.ibm61aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: Thanks Ed, and you're right. I'm looking for rings made from a single piece though terra cotta wouldn't be my first stone of choice. I like Kreigh's idea though of cutting them and putting them through the fine and pre-polished stage with the idea that time and wear would bring out their natural shine. If anyone wants to experiment with making some from different kinds of stone, I'm happy to try them out. I don't work with stone in this way or I'd try it myself. Maybe one day but not yet. Thanks for the dialogue on this. I appreciate the learnings I glean from this list. jennifer From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 27 18:53:54 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 27 18:53:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mindat question References: <20060127153150.47346.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001c6239e$ca51ef10$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <43DADCA5.1445@Tomaszewski.net> Alan, Have you tried logging out of MinDat, going to some other site, maybe exiting and restarting your browser (or rebooting), and then logging back into MinDat and trying again? Websites (Windows, browsers, and other software) sometimes get confused if you have been using them for a while, and a fresh start often fixes things. Kreigh Alan Goldstein wrote: > > I can, but previous attempts to get questions answered by Jolyon last year > did not result in a response. Other people stepped in the answer the > questions. I thought I would try to go direct to the "hired" help again! > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Daly" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:31 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mindat question > > > Can you send an E-mail directly to Jolyon Ralph? > > Jim > > > > --- Alan Goldstein wrote: > > > >> I've gotten mindat problems resolved from this list > >> serve and I'm in a catch-22. I've tried to post on > >> the forums and I get an error message that says, > >> "The name you entered is already registered by > >> another user. If you are that user, please login. > >> Otherwise, please use another name." I am already > >> logged in and don't have another name to use unless > >> I have to make up something. I can't post the > >> problem on the errors forum because of the error > >> message. Any suggestions? > >> > >> Alan From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 27 19:13:34 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 27 19:13:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral References: Message-ID: <43DAE13F.53FD@Tomaszewski.net> My Club screened this movie at our annual show last April and it was a hit. If you have not seen it, I can highly recommend it. Todd Kent did a great job, and it is worth seeing. Kreigh P.S., I have no interest in this movie other than as a rockhound that greatly enjoyed and appreciated it. RockHounds: The Movie wrote: > > RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show > > For Immediate Release (Hi res Images Available on Request) > > Norman, OK ? Now there?s one more reason to visit the world?s largest gem & > mineral show. The 2006 Tucson Gem & Mineral Show will host a screening of > ?RockHounds: The Movie.? The screening will take place Saturday February 11 > at 3:00 in the Copper Ballroom in the Tucson Convention Center. > > ?We screened at gem & mineral shows across the country last year,? said > executive producer and host Devin Dennie, ?but we are really pleased about > having a place in Tucson.? The Tucson Gem & Mineral show is widely > considered on of the best in the world and in 2006 it will run from February > 9 to the 12. > > ?Rock hounds from all over the world flock to Tucson every year,? said the > film?s director Todd Kent, ?so we are excited about having an opportunity to > screen before such a large audience.? > > In addition to gem & mineral shows, the documentary continues to tour the > film festival circuit and was an official selection of Australia?s ?SCINEMA > ?05 ? Festival of Science Film.? A short version of the film is also a part > of the ?OK Rocks!? exhibit at the Sam Noble Oklahoma Museum of Natural > History in Norman, OK. > > The film showcases the fun, adventure and science behind the hobby of gem & > mineral collecting and was produced by Explorer Multimedia Inc., in > conjunction with the School of Geology & Geophysics at the University of > Oklahoma. Topics include the World Championship Quartz Crystal Dig, hunting > for fossils, the ?Rock Food Table? and more. > > For more information about ?RockHounds: The Movie? please visit > http://www.RockHoundsMovie.com . Explorer Multimedia Inc., is a non profit > 501 (c)(3) corporation. For more information please visit > http://www.ExplorerMultimedia.org . > > For more on the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show please visit their website: > http://www.tgms.org From rockhoundsmovie at hotmail.com Fri Jan 27 19:36:15 2006 From: rockhoundsmovie at hotmail.com (RockHounds: The Movie) Date: Fri Jan 27 19:36:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be Message-ID: Don: I'm not sure I understand your questions but I'll try to address them. This is an independent documentary film and has no funding (as of yet). Our group (Explorer Multimedia Inc.) exists to promote earth science education and outreach through TV, video and other multimedia vehicles. "RockHounds: The Movie" is one such project. As far as motivation, like any filmmakers we want to tell stories. For us, our interests are focused on geology, so naturally our projects are earth science related. This is our first project involving the "hobby" side (as opposed to the "academic" side) of earth science. We hope to show the fun of rock hounding and educate as well. Hope this helps to clear things up, but I'm happy to answer any other questions. Thanks, Todd Kent Message: 8 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:44:54 -0800 From: DonH Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <43DACC96.9000808@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed RockHounds: The Movie wrote: >RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show > >For Immediate Release (Hi res Images Available on Request) I'm still not sure of the motivation behind this, and how it is funded. Has anyone seen this entire video? I looked at the trailer and it seems rather narrowly focused. Don _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From jennifer at sunriseinstitute.org Fri Jan 27 19:39:18 2006 From: jennifer at sunriseinstitute.org (jennifer isham) Date: Fri Jan 27 19:38:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Mineral Patches on Ebay In-Reply-To: <001801c623a6$fdb504c0$6601a8c0@Powell> Message-ID: Just took a look at these Darryl, and they're great. Email me offline and we can continue to talk about them, and best of luck with them! jennifer wisdomofstones@hotmail.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Powell Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 7:06 PM To: Rockhounds List Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Mineral Patches on Ebay This is a shameless ad. Delete now if you don't want to be bothered. I have added a small number of mineral patches on ebay. They could be great for kids. Also, search for "mineral coloring books" and "mineral names" book. That's all. Thanks for looking. Blessings to all. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5660937825&rd=1&sspagenam e=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6248906893&rd=1&sspagenam e=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6248909718&rd=1&sspagenam e=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jan 27 20:44:12 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jan 27 20:43:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Herkimer Rings References: <20060128022851.OVCW28960.ibm61aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <43DAF672.71CE@Tomaszewski.net> edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net wrote: > > Dear Kreigh: > I suggest that Jennifer is referring to entire/whole hole rings made from a single piece, not set into something. I thought about the clay marbles I saw when I was a young'un. Used to glass and higher technology, the clayies seemed cheap, maybe even fake, especially with their chipped surfaces. Real agates, cut & tumbled, and also used for marbles. We could make rings out of terra cotta, like the MesoAmerican figurines. I think that Herks are a little hard for rings, and skin would do little t Hi Edward, I hadn't thought of full rings cut from cored cylinders of rock -- I was thinking of set stones. I've seen hematite rings like those you suggested, and also agate rings (that had been tumbled). BTW, I remember clay marbles, and still have a few. I've seen real agate marbles (and used to have some), but I only have glass aggies (and a few hematite shooters) left as a poor substitute. It has been a long time since I shot marbles... Thanks for the clarification. Kreigh From tam2819 at cox.net Fri Jan 27 21:06:27 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Fri Jan 27 21:06:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Herkimer Rings In-Reply-To: <43DAF672.71CE@Tomaszewski.net> References: <20060128022851.OVCW28960.ibm61aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> <43DAF672.71CE@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: I wear a solid Rutilated quartz ring I purchased from an online site. This ring has gotten more comments than any other one I may wear, and I have many. > http://www.ringofartist.com/ There are many choices there. they are made to order, style and size. I have made this referral quite a few times, usually have a slip of paper in my pocket with an email address I promised to sent this URL onto. Terrie From jsmall47 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 28 03:09:40 2006 From: jsmall47 at earthlink.net (Jim Small) Date: Sat Jan 28 03:06:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie In-Reply-To: <200601280200.k0S20cnF029300@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200601280200.k0S20cnF029300@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20060128060227.024bf738@mail.earthlink.net> Don - We got a copy from the folks who put it together. We have shown it at our Kingsport Gems and Minerals Society regular meeting. We also had continuous showings at our 2-day educational show in July of 2005. The movie was very well received; it is a genuine hoot, and really a fun flick! Some of our club members feel that the movie is not very sophisticated; I do not see that as a drawback. It is a great introduction to rockhounding for the general public. The basic premise is that if this movie goes over well, then the folks who have put it together will do a series of films for educational TV. Ask them about it; they aren't shy or bashful. Jim Small, VP and Program Chair Kingsport Gems and Minerals Society Kingsport, TN From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jan 28 08:51:58 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jan 28 08:50:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20060128060227.024bf738@mail.earthlink.net> References: <200601280200.k0S20cnF029300@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20060128060227.024bf738@mail.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <43DBA12E.5060400@verizon.net> Jim Small wrote: > Don - > Some of our club members feel that the movie is not very > sophisticated; Thanks for the response. Very gracefully put. I suppose that was one of my two main objections. The other objection is the implication of the title; one would expect a definitive term like "rockhounds: the movie" to embrace many aspects of the hobby, but it only covers a small portion. It left out a lot, at least what I can tell from the trailer. Don From rockhounds at adelphia.net Sat Jan 28 09:41:58 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Sat Jan 28 09:41:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie In-Reply-To: <43DBA12E.5060400@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000001c62432$23c314f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Where can I see this trailer and how can we obtain a copy for our club? Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 8:52 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie Jim Small wrote: > Don - > Some of our club members feel that the movie is not very > sophisticated; Thanks for the response. Very gracefully put. I suppose that was one of my two main objections. The other objection is the implication of the title; one would expect a definitive term like "rockhounds: the movie" to embrace many aspects of the hobby, but it only covers a small portion. It left out a lot, at least what I can tell from the trailer. Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jan 28 09:48:00 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jan 28 09:46:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie In-Reply-To: <000001c62432$23c314f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> References: <000001c62432$23c314f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: <43DBAE50.3020807@verizon.net> Kelly Hanson wrote: > Where can I see this trailer and how can we obtain a copy for our club? > Kelly It's on their website. http://www.RockHoundsMovie.com http://www.savvycenter.com/explorer/rockhounds/rhmvideos.htm I have DSL, but it might be slow over dialup. Have fun, Don From dguin at earthlink.net Sat Jan 28 09:48:04 2006 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Sat Jan 28 09:48:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie In-Reply-To: <000001c62432$23c314f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> References: <000001c62432$23c314f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: <43DBAE54.1080604@earthlink.net> Kelly Hanson wrote: >Where can I see this trailer and how can we obtain a copy for our club? > > http://www.savvycenter.com/explorer/rockhounds/default.htm From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 28 13:11:12 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Jan 28 13:11:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Review References: <000001c62432$23c314f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> <43DBAE54.1080604@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <002101c6244f$5ebe3d60$ba8b4c0c@LarryRush> I had the good fortune to have received for Christmas the new mineral book, "Masterpieces of the Mineral World". This is an outstanding photo journal of some of the finest aesthetic crystal pieces residing in the Houston Museum. The book is published by the museum, and is written by Wendell Wilson, of MR, and Joel Bartsch and Mark Mauthner of the museum. The photography, which is excellent, is by Jeff Scoville and the Van Pelts. This book is oriented to appeal to the innate aesthetic sense of beauty all people have, and as such, will create mineral lust in anyone, but especially collectors. The photos (about 80 in all) are full page size, and the opposing page has a short summary of the specimen's provenance, size and characteristics. The last 50 pages or so (of the total of 264) contain a history of each piece, followed by a history of mineral collecting by notable aristocrats throughout the world. This is quite probably the best "coffee-table" type of mineral book yet published, and is sure to delight collectors of minerals for years to come. If the book has any shortcomings, it is that the scientific side of mineralogy is almost completely ignored. There is not a single chemical formula, almost no crystallography or petrography discussed, and won't appeal to those looking for a scientific approach to minerals. But, obviously, this is not the intent of the authors, and it succeeds completely as a presentation of aesthetic beauty. Distributed by the Mineralogical Record, for $75, plus $5 shipping, and half of the proceeds go to the Houston Museum of Natural Science. Larry Rush "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" From stu at arcrystalmine.com Sat Jan 28 14:21:51 2006 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (stu@arcrystalmine.com) Date: Sat Jan 28 14:21:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie References: <000001c62432$23c314f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> <43DBAE50.3020807@verizon.net> Message-ID: <008001c62459$3d13e0c0$6400a8c0@STUART> I had a small bit part in the movie when Todd filmed our 2004 Chamber sponsored "World Championship Crystal Dig" and Todd sent me a copy. I enjoyed it very much and thought he did a very good job of documenting the event. While the movie only documented 3 events or aspects of rockhounding, I don't see how any 45 minute movie could document the "many aspects of rockhounding". For the novice or beginner the movie would be a great motivator. For the "professional" rockhound or geologist it might not be sophisticated...but you should still get a hoot out of it. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Clear Creek & Sweet Surrender Crystal Mines www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From dguin at earthlink.net Sat Jan 28 14:44:33 2006 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Sat Jan 28 14:44:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Review In-Reply-To: <002101c6244f$5ebe3d60$ba8b4c0c@LarryRush> References: <000001c62432$23c314f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> <43DBAE54.1080604@earthlink.net> <002101c6244f$5ebe3d60$ba8b4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <43DBF3D1.3080009@earthlink.net> Lawrence Rush wrote: > . . . .I had the good fortune to have received for Christmas the new > mineral book, "Masterpieces of the Mineral World". This is an > outstanding photo journal of some of the finest aesthetic crystal > pieces residing in the Houston Museum. The book is > published by the museum, and is written by Wendell Wilson, of MR, and > Joel Bartsch and Mark Mauthner of the museum. > The photography, which is excellent, is by Jeff Scoville and the Van > Pelts. > . . . . > This is quite probably the best "coffee-table" type of mineral book > yet published, and is sure to delight collectors of minerals for years > to come. . . I wholeheartedly agree with this posting. Peace, dave From efkern at earthlink.net Sat Jan 28 16:05:39 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sat Jan 28 16:05:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie References: <000001c62432$23c314f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson><43DBAE50.3020807@verizon.net> <008001c62459$3d13e0c0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <000e01c62467$bd818010$e592b2d1@TheBlackAdder> I agree, three aspects of our hobby were not enough. Inside of a producing mine or quarry, or a mine with colorful mineralisation would have been a good addition. Overall, the production was paced too slowly. There would have been time for documenting several other aspects of rockhounding if some of the segments had been (mercifully) abbreviated such as the mineral table setting, which in my opinion ran on way too long. It's been several months since I viewed the whole tape, but as I remember, the table setting sequence was 10 to 15 minutes whereas 3 minutes would have been adequate and would have increased the tempo of the film. The crystal dig was interesting, but I would have edited out a third of it to move on to a new venue. My favorite segment was the kid's fossil field trip which was just the right length, very well filmed and edited. Erich Kern Murrieta, California ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie I had a small bit part in the movie when Todd filmed our 2004 Chamber sponsored "World Championship Crystal Dig" and Todd sent me a copy. I enjoyed it very much and thought he did a very good job of documenting the event. While the movie only documented 3 events or aspects of rockhounding, I don't see how any 45 minute movie could document the "many aspects of rockhounding". For the novice or beginner the movie would be a great motivator. For the "professional" rockhound or geologist it might not be sophisticated...but you should still get a hoot out of it. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Clear Creek & Sweet Surrender Crystal Mines www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jan 28 16:54:54 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jan 28 16:54:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie References: <000001c62432$23c314f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> <43DBAE50.3020807@verizon.net> <008001c62459$3d13e0c0$6400a8c0@STUART> Message-ID: <43DC1243.698F@Tomaszewski.net> In my discussion with Todd about the movie I understood he hoped to sell it as a TV (or cable) show with a season of weekly episodes. With 39 fifteen minute segments in a season he would be able to cover much more of the hobby than the one episode did. Kreigh stu@arcrystalmine.com wrote: > > I had a small bit part in the movie when Todd filmed our 2004 Chamber > sponsored "World Championship Crystal Dig" and Todd sent me a copy. I > enjoyed it very much and thought he did a very good job of documenting the > event. > > While the movie only documented 3 events or aspects of rockhounding, I don't > see how any 45 minute movie could document the "many aspects of > rockhounding". For the novice or beginner the movie would be a great > motivator. For the "professional" rockhound or geologist it might not be > sophisticated...but you should still get a hoot out of it. > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Clear Creek & > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mines > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From efkern at earthlink.net Sat Jan 28 17:30:00 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sat Jan 28 17:30:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie References: <000001c62432$23c314f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> <43DBAE50.3020807@verizon.net><008001c62459$3d13e0c0$6400a8c0@STUART> <43DC1243.698F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001c01c62473$863a1430$1196b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Even better reason to include more variety. Make the first effort a "sampler" so to speak. The feedback from ten 5 minute clips would be invaluable in planning future adds to the project. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 4:54 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie In my discussion with Todd about the movie I understood he hoped to sell it as a TV (or cable) show with a season of weekly episodes. With 39 fifteen minute segments in a season he would be able to cover much more of the hobby than the one episode did. Kreigh stu@arcrystalmine.com wrote: > > I had a small bit part in the movie when Todd filmed our 2004 Chamber > sponsored "World Championship Crystal Dig" and Todd sent me a copy. I > enjoyed it very much and thought he did a very good job of documenting the > event. > > While the movie only documented 3 events or aspects of rockhounding, I don't > see how any 45 minute movie could document the "many aspects of > rockhounding". For the novice or beginner the movie would be a great > motivator. For the "professional" rockhound or geologist it might not be > sophisticated...but you should still get a hoot out of it. > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Clear Creek & > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mines > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sat Jan 28 17:55:38 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sat Jan 28 17:57:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie In-Reply-To: <43DC1243.698F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <200601290157.k0T1vYIl031909@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Then it probably shouldn't have been called "...The Movie". I think to most people, this implies that it will cover all (or at least most) aspects of the hobby. Each topic could be 10 minutes long, but then it couldn't be only 45 minute. I have also heard not-so-good comments about the trailer (including my own comments) but these comments were from people who were assuming it would cover much more topics, including fun and educational material. That is what the people in my clubs were looking for when I told them about the video a few months ago. There should've been footage of some crystals (close-ups) so people can get excited about the video and hobby. Showing people talking about the hobby won't do it. I just saw Erich's post regarding a "sampler". I totally agree with him. This movie should be the sampler of everything to expect in the series. I would still love to see a series of episodes from Todd. Maybe with some of the input that we have seen here in the list, he can refine the movie and episodes so TV stations (or cable) will show them. I wish them good luck! :-) Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 5:55 PM To: stu@arcrystalmine.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds: Rockhounds The Movie In my discussion with Todd about the movie I understood he hoped to sell it as a TV (or cable) show with a season of weekly episodes. With 39 fifteen minute segments in a season he would be able to cover much more of the hobby than the one episode did. Kreigh stu@arcrystalmine.com wrote: > > I had a small bit part in the movie when Todd filmed our 2004 Chamber > sponsored "World Championship Crystal Dig" and Todd sent me a copy. I > enjoyed it very much and thought he did a very good job of documenting the > event. > > While the movie only documented 3 events or aspects of rockhounding, I don't > see how any 45 minute movie could document the "many aspects of > rockhounding". For the novice or beginner the movie would be a great > motivator. For the "professional" rockhound or geologist it might not be > sophisticated...but you should still get a hoot out of it. > > With appreciation & gratitude, > Stuart Schmitt > Clear Creek & > Sweet Surrender Crystal Mines > www.arcrystalmine.com > 60 Mary's Eagle Trail > Mount Ida, AR 71957 > (870) 867-2443 > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mars5255 at msn.com Sat Jan 28 22:32:49 2006 From: mars5255 at msn.com (M STORAASLI) Date: Sat Jan 28 22:27:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dominance and Submission Message-ID: This is my last attempt to lick your boots...kiss my ass, chickenshit webprick/snatch "host"...you're "republican trash" hereafter..."en garde"... --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at verizon.net Sat Jan 28 23:05:10 2006 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jan 29 00:05:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADMIN Dominance and Submission In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060128210151.036ede90@incoming.verizon.net> Hi List, don't what this was about, but we'll try to stop it. Aloha Kitty t 08:32 PM 1/28/2006, "M STORAASLI" wrote: >This is my last attempt to lick your boots...CUT. From mars5255 at msn.com Sun Jan 29 00:21:54 2006 From: mars5255 at msn.com (M STORAASLI) Date: Sun Jan 29 00:17:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] Message-ID: Hi everyone!...new to post here...threat sent earlier was stupidity and beer speaking telling me to get 'er done, I did it the only way I was certain would work. Some many years ago there were beads manufactured on the Central Oregon Coast by natives pushing (and/or pounding?) .45-70 "straight-sided bullet" shell cases into the clayey shale "mud" at the mouths of the several rivers emptying into the ocean...I found several of the shell cases "hammered in" and many of the re- sultant beads. I don't know if the casings were kilned with the core in, or if the cores were just cooked by themselves, but during the "baking process" the clay de-laminated into "hishi-like" beads ...pretty flat, and perfectly round...but I don't know at what point the holes in the beads were made. Anyone familiar with these particular (Cenozoic Age "stratified clay" - Lawn Aeration Tine-Like 40- and .45- caliber "plugs" - baked/holed - then "graduated" and "strung" (or strung first, and then graduated, like "hishi"???). . .I figured the "technology" must make them as recent as the 1930's; maybe "wannabe Indian stuff", but there they are, remaining to be found even now, I expect. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sun Jan 29 01:20:21 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sun Jan 29 01:23:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200601290923.k0T9NMiD031261@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Is this real, or just another spam? Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of M STORAASLI Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:22 AM To: rockhounds Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] Hi everyone!...new to post here...threat sent earlier was stupidity and beer speaking telling me to get 'er done, I did it the only way I was certain would work. Some many years ago there were beads manufactured on the Central Oregon Coast by natives pushing (and/or pounding?) .45-70 "straight-sided bullet" shell cases into the clayey shale "mud" at the mouths of the several rivers emptying into the ocean...I found several of the shell cases "hammered in" and many of the re- sultant beads. I don't know if the casings were kilned with the core in, or if the cores were just cooked by themselves, but during the "baking process" the clay de-laminated into "hishi-like" beads ...pretty flat, and perfectly round...but I don't know at what point the holes in the beads were made. Anyone familiar with these particular (Cenozoic Age "stratified clay" - Lawn Aeration Tine-Like 40- and .45- caliber "plugs" - baked/holed - then "graduated" and "strung" (or strung first, and then graduated, like "hishi"???). . .I figured the "technology" must make them as recent as the 1930's; maybe "wannabe Indian stuff", but there they are, remaining to be found even now, I expect. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Jan 29 03:13:22 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Jan 29 03:13:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] References: <200601290923.k0T9NMiD031261@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00a801c624c5$04812e90$6602a8c0@remains> personally, I think the guy's a tad unbalanced.....he should be unsubscribed c'mon moderators...there's no excuse for a vulgar rant like that...drunken or not. turf the guy Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 2:20 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] > Is this real, or just another spam? > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of M STORAASLI > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:22 AM > To: rockhounds > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] > > Hi everyone!...new to post here...threat sent earlier was stupidity and > beer > speaking > telling me to get 'er done, I did it the only way I was certain would > work. > Some many years ago there were beads manufactured on the Central Oregon > Coast by natives pushing (and/or pounding?) .45-70 "straight-sided bullet" > shell > cases into the clayey shale "mud" at the mouths of the several rivers > emptying > into the ocean...I found several of the shell cases "hammered in" and many > of the re- > sultant beads. I don't know if the casings were kilned with the core in, > or > if the > cores were just cooked by themselves, but during the "baking process" the > clay > de-laminated into "hishi-like" beads ...pretty flat, and perfectly > round...but I don't > know at what point the holes in the beads were made. Anyone familiar with > these > particular (Cenozoic Age "stratified clay" - Lawn Aeration Tine-Like 40- > and > .45- > caliber "plugs" - baked/holed - then "graduated" and "strung" (or strung > first, and > then graduated, like "hishi"???). . .I figured the "technology" must make > them as > recent as the 1930's; maybe "wannabe Indian stuff", but there they are, > remaining > to be found even now, I expect. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From mikeflan at earthlink.net Sun Jan 29 05:37:03 2006 From: mikeflan at earthlink.net (Mike Flannigan) Date: Sun Jan 29 05:34:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Herkimer Rings References: <200601290204.k0T24JIo003466@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <43DCC4FF.D45BD39C@earthlink.net> Please trim the quoted part of your messages. Mike Flannigan On Fri, 27 Jan 2006, edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:28:51 -0500 >From: >Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Herkimer Rings >To: >Message-ID: > <20060128022851.OVCW28960.ibm61aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Dear Kreigh: >I suggest that Jennifer is referring to entire/whole hole rings made from a single >piece, not set into something. I thought about the clay marbles I saw when I was a >young'un. Used to glass and higher technology, the clayies seemed cheap, maybe even >fake, especially with their chipped surfaces. Real agates, cut & tumbled, and also used >for marbles. We could make rings out of terra cotta, like the MesoAmerican figurines. >I think that Herks are a little hard for rings, and skin would do little to soften the >edges. Like glass, they would inflict a lot of damage.EJ Wagner >> >> From: rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com >> Date: 2006/01/27 Fri PM 09:00:40 EST >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 30 >> >> Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to >> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." >> >> >> [Rockhounds-Digest] >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Steacyite (SMKELL45@aol.com) >> 2. mindat question (Alan Goldstein) >> 3. Re: mindat question (Jim Daly) >> 4. Re: mindat question (Alan Goldstein) >> 5. Ad: Mineral Patches on Ebay (Powell) >> 6. PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the >> Tucson Gem & Mineral (RockHounds: The Movie) >> 7. Re: Re: unpolished stone rings (Kreigh Tomaszewski) >> 8. Re: PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at >> the Tucson Gem & Mineral (DonH) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:37:15 EST >> From: SMKELL45@aol.com >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Steacyite >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Message-ID: <30.1ff4e20.310ae15b@aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >> >> Bought a specimen of Steacyite in Charoite, Aegerine and Feldspar. The >> location on the label is Murin Massif, Kola Peninsula, Russia. Now the closest >> that I have been able to get is the Murun Massif in Eastern Siberia, not near >> the Kola Peninsula. Any ideas on what the right location might be? I >> e-mailed the vender but so far no response. smkell >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:14:58 -0500 >> From: "Alan Goldstein" >> Subject: [Rockhounds] mindat question >> To: >> Message-ID: <013d01c622ef$daa89fd0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> >> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> I've gotten mindat problems resolved from this list serve and I'm in a catch-22. I've >tried to post on the forums and I get an error message that says, "The name you entered >is already registered by another user. If you are that user, please login. Otherwise, >please use another name." I am already logged in and don't have another name to use >unless I have to make up something. I can't post the problem on the errors forum because >of the error message. Any suggestions? >> >> Alan >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 07:31:50 -0800 (PST) >> From: Jim Daly >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mindat question >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> Message-ID: <20060127153150.47346.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Can you send an E-mail directly to Jolyon Ralph? >> Jim >> >> --- Alan Goldstein wrote: >> >> > I've gotten mindat problems resolved from this list >> > serve and I'm in a catch-22. I've tried to post on >> > the forums and I get an error message that says, >> > "The name you entered is already registered by >> > another user. If you are that user, please login. >> > Otherwise, please use another name." I am already >> > logged in and don't have another name to use unless >> > I have to make up something. I can't post the >> > problem on the errors forum because of the error >> > message. Any suggestions? >> > >> > Alan >> > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > multipart/alternative >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > text/html >> > --- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > >> >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:07:12 -0500 >> From: "Alan Goldstein" >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mindat question >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> Message-ID: <003001c6239e$ca51ef10$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> I can, but previous attempts to get questions answered by Jolyon last year >> did not result in a response. Other people stepped in the answer the >> questions. I thought I would try to go direct to the "hired" help again! >> >> Alan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jim Daly" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:31 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mindat question >> >> >> > Can you send an E-mail directly to Jolyon Ralph? >> > Jim >> > >> > --- Alan Goldstein wrote: >> > >> >> I've gotten mindat problems resolved from this list >> >> serve and I'm in a catch-22. I've tried to post on >> >> the forums and I get an error message that says, >> >> "The name you entered is already registered by >> >> another user. If you are that user, please login. >> >> Otherwise, please use another name." I am already >> >> logged in and don't have another name to use unless >> >> I have to make up something. I can't post the >> >> problem on the errors forum because of the error >> >> message. Any suggestions? >> >> >> >> Alan >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> >> multipart/alternative >> >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> >> text/html >> >> --- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> >> Subscription Services: >> >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> > >> > >> > __________________________________________________ >> > Do You Yahoo!? >> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> > http://mail.yahoo.com >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:05:54 -0500 >> From: "Powell" >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Mineral Patches on Ebay >> To: "Rockhounds List" >> Message-ID: <001801c623a6$fdb504c0$6601a8c0@Powell> >> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> This is a shameless ad. Delete now if you don't want to be bothered. >> >> I have added a small number of mineral patches on ebay. They could be great for kids. >> >> Also, search for "mineral coloring books" and "mineral names" book. >> >> That's all. Thanks for looking. >> Blessings to all. >> Darryl Powell >> Manchester, New York >> >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5660937825&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 >> >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6248906893&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 >> >> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6248909718&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1 >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:29:54 -0600 >> From: "RockHounds: The Movie" >> Subject: [Rockhounds] PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be >> Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >> >> RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show >> >> For Immediate Release (Hi res Images Available on Request) >> >> Norman, OK ? Now there?s one more reason to visit the world?s largest gem & >> mineral show. The 2006 Tucson Gem & Mineral Show will host a screening of >> ?RockHounds: The Movie.? The screening will take place Saturday February 11 >> at 3:00 in the Copper Ballroom in the Tucson Convention Center. >> >> ?We screened at gem & mineral shows across the country last year,? said >> executive producer and host Devin Dennie, ?but we are really pleased about >> having a place in Tucson.? The Tucson Gem & Mineral show is widely >> considered on of the best in the world and in 2006 it will run from February >> 9 to the 12. >> >> ?Rock hounds from all over the world flock to Tucson every year,? said the >> film?s director Todd Kent, ?so we are excited about having an opportunity to >> screen before such a large audience.? >> >> In addition to gem & mineral shows, the documentary continues to tour the >> film festival circuit and was an official selection of Australia?s ?SCINEMA >> ?05 ? Festival of Science Film.? A short version of the film is also a part >> of the ?OK Rocks!? exhibit at the Sam Noble Oklahoma Museum of Natural >> History in Norman, OK. >> >> The film showcases the fun, adventure and science behind the hobby of gem & >> mineral collecting and was produced by Explorer Multimedia Inc., in >> conjunction with the School of Geology & Geophysics at the University of >> Oklahoma. Topics include the World Championship Quartz Crystal Dig, hunting >> for fossils, the ?Rock Food Table? and more. >> >> For more information about ?RockHounds: The Movie? please visit >> http://www.RockHoundsMovie.com . Explorer Multimedia Inc., is a non profit >> 501 (c)(3) corporation. For more information please visit >> http://www.ExplorerMultimedia.org . >> >> For more on the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show please visit their website: >> http://www.tgms.org >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! >> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:37:45 -0500 >> From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: unpolished stone rings >> To: info@wisdomofstones.com, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list >> for rock and gem collectors" >> Message-ID: <43DACAD6.60B8@Tomaszewski.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Jennifer, >> >> You might consider tumbled stones that have gone thru fine or >> pre-polish, but have not been polished. Continued wear, and rubbing by >> the owner would eventually bring them to a polish, much like a >> worry-stone. You could even find them naturally by visiting just about >> any beach. >> >> Another possibility is small crystals. I have seen jewelry made with >> uncut/unpolished herkimer diamonds (quartz) that I doubt could have been >> improved by cutting or polishing. >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> >> Wisdom of Stones wrote: >> > >> > Hi Edward, >> > As always, you're a wealth of information. I'd forgotten about bone, so >> > thanks for the reminder. As for stone needing shaping and some polishing, I >> > think I realize this but didn't think about it or note it in my email. I'm >> > find with light polishing to remove the rough edges, etc. I don't want it >> > polished to a shine but instead would like it to look as much in it's >> > natural state as possible. It's like wanting a ring made by a caveman :-) >> > any ideas? >> > >> > jennifer >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of >> > edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net >> > Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:04 PM >> > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: unpolished stone rings >> > >> > Dear Jennifer: Some natural things make nice rings, bracelets, or other body >> > were: I'n reminded of the movie Mondo Cane where a New Guinea native >> > withdrew the long bone inserted thru his septum, picked his teeth with it, >> > then put the instrument/jerelry back into its showplace. Bone, some types of >> > hair and fibers make suitable rings, given that it has been weathered >> > properly. Most rock is hard and rough,and like metal, requires shaping and >> > polishing. Even soft stuff. like serpentine, needs some work..EJW >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:44:54 -0800 >> From: DonH >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] PRESS RELEASE: RockHounds: The Movie to be >> Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> Message-ID: <43DACC96.9000808@verizon.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed >> >> RockHounds: The Movie wrote: >> > RockHounds: The Movie to be Screened at the Tucson Gem & Mineral Show >> > >> > For Immediate Release (Hi res Images Available on Request) >> >> >> I'm still not sure of the motivation behind this, and how it is funded. >> Has anyone seen this entire video? I looked at the trailer and it >> seems rather narrowly focused. >> >> Don >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds mailing list >> Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 20, Issue 30 >> ****************************************** >> > From hammerron at yahoo.com Sun Jan 29 06:24:35 2006 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sun Jan 29 06:24:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mountains Rising Message-ID: <20060129142436.77958.qmail@web81408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Found an interesting article on yahoo about the rate at which mountains are formed (hope I posted this correctly) at: http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060128/sc_space/blobsinsideearthmightexplainrapidmountainbuilding -Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hammerron at yahoo.com Sun Jan 29 07:16:32 2006 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sun Jan 29 07:16:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for silver colored clasp Message-ID: <20060129151632.90602.qmail@web81411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello: I am looking for what I think is called a spring clasp. I am looking for only one and need one that is silver colored, it does not not need to be actual sterling silver. I found a picture of a similar item on the net at http://www.marlco.com/fclasp0.jpg in case my description is lacking. I realize that I can order them from companies on line, but I am only looking for one and between most companies minimum orders, I'd wind up paying much more than the item is worth. Hoping to only spend a dollar or so. If anyone here has one that they could mail to me, please contact me off list at hammerron@yahoo.com Thanks! -Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapidry at aol.com Sun Jan 29 07:45:24 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sun Jan 29 07:45:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for silver colored clasp Message-ID: <261.5eafece.310e3d14@aol.com> Ron: What you are looking for is a standard item at about any of the craft stores. Very common. I don't know where you live but around here, JoAnn's, Michael's and many others would have them. No need to go mailing them. Dan In a message dated 1/29/2006 10:16:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, hammerron@yahoo.com writes: Hello: I am looking for what I think is called a spring clasp. I am looking for only one and need one that is silver colored, it does not not need to be actual sterling silver. I found a picture of a similar item on the net at http://www.marlco.com/fclasp0.jpg in case my description is lacking. I realize that I can order them from companies on line, but I am only looking for one and between most companies minimum orders, I'd wind up paying much more than the item is worth. Hoping to only spend a dollar or so. If anyone here has one that they could mail to me, please contact me off list at hammerron@yahoo.com Thanks! -Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Jan 29 09:10:54 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Jan 29 09:10:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] References: <200601290923.k0T9NMiD031261@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <00a801c624c5$04812e90$6602a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <002101c624f6$f78b8af0$ca95b2d1@TheBlackAdder> I'll second that...in spades. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schmidt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 3:13 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] personally, I think the guy's a tad unbalanced.....he should be unsubscribed c'mon moderators...there's no excuse for a vulgar rant like that...drunken or not. turf the guy Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 2:20 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] > Is this real, or just another spam? > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of M STORAASLI > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 1:22 AM > To: rockhounds > Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] > > Hi everyone!...new to post here...threat sent earlier was stupidity and > beer > speaking > telling me to get 'er done, I did it the only way I was certain would > work. > Some many years ago there were beads manufactured on the Central Oregon > Coast by natives pushing (and/or pounding?) .45-70 "straight-sided bullet" > shell > cases into the clayey shale "mud" at the mouths of the several rivers > emptying > into the ocean...I found several of the shell cases "hammered in" and many > of the re- > sultant beads. I don't know if the casings were kilned with the core in, > or > if the > cores were just cooked by themselves, but during the "baking process" the > clay > de-laminated into "hishi-like" beads ...pretty flat, and perfectly > round...but I don't > know at what point the holes in the beads were made. Anyone familiar with > these > particular (Cenozoic Age "stratified clay" - Lawn Aeration Tine-Like 40- > and > .45- > caliber "plugs" - baked/holed - then "graduated" and "strung" (or strung > first, and > then graduated, like "hishi"???). . .I figured the "technology" must make > them as > recent as the 1930's; maybe "wannabe Indian stuff", but there they are, > remaining > to be found even now, I expect. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From info at wisdomofstones.com Sun Jan 29 09:43:52 2006 From: info at wisdomofstones.com (Wisdom of Stones) Date: Sun Jan 29 09:43:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] In-Reply-To: <00a801c624c5$04812e90$6602a8c0@remains> Message-ID: This is Jennifer, and I agree, or at least put him on notice. And speaking of the rings, I'm appreciating the dialogue, ideas, and the link to the one designer. He does beautiful work, but still not what I'm looking for....closer though. The ring I'm wanting is just a simple low luster, plain stone band. Type of stone right now is not as important as finding the people who make them, or the places that have them available. Feels like a tall, but hopefully not non-existent request I'm making! thanks! jennifer From hammerron at yahoo.com Sun Jan 29 09:53:50 2006 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Sun Jan 29 09:53:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for silver colored clasp In-Reply-To: <261.5eafece.310e3d14@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060129175350.97252.qmail@web81403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> cool. I know of a craft store not too far. appreciated Lapidry@aol.com wrote: Ron: What you are looking for is a standard item at about any of the craft stores. Very common. I don't know where you live but around here, JoAnn's, Michael's and many others would have them. No need to go mailing them. Dan In a message dated 1/29/2006 10:16:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, hammerron@yahoo.com writes: Hello: I am looking for what I think is called a spring clasp. I am looking for only one and need one that is silver colored, it does not not need to be actual sterling silver. I found a picture of a similar item on the net at http://www.marlco.com/fclasp0.jpg in case my description is lacking. I realize that I can order them from companies on line, but I am only looking for one and between most companies minimum orders, I'd wind up paying much more than the item is worth. Hoping to only spend a dollar or so. If anyone here has one that they could mail to me, please contact me off list at hammerron@yahoo.com Thanks! -Ron --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bova at mindspring.com Sun Jan 29 10:14:37 2006 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Sun Jan 29 10:12:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings" source In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1BBB5DE8-90F3-11DA-B327-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Jennifer, There are always vendors at the Jade Festival with simple and inexpensive jade rings. They come in a nice range of colors, and they are polished.. but I'll bet whoever makes them would be just as happy to sell them before they're polished. Carol On Sunday, January 29, 2006, at 12:43 PM, Wisdom of Stones wrote: > And speaking of the rings, I'm appreciating the dialogue, ideas, and > the > link to the one designer. He does beautiful work, but still not what > I'm > looking for....closer though. The ring I'm wanting is just a simple > low > luster, plain stone band. Type of stone right now is not as important > as > finding the people who make them, or the places that have them > available. > Feels like a tall, but hopefully not non-existent request I'm making! > > thanks! > jennifer From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jan 29 11:37:51 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 29 11:35:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] References: Message-ID: <43DD190A.1AD@Tomaszewski.net> Wisdom of Stones wrote: > looking for....closer though. The ring I'm wanting is just a simple low > luster, plain stone band. Type of stone right now is not as important as > finding the people who make them, or the places that have them available. > Feels like a tall, but hopefully not non-existent request I'm making! Try http://www.globalmarketcatalog.com/hematiterings.html for one source from China. From dwest122 at comcast.net Sun Jan 29 13:39:05 2006 From: dwest122 at comcast.net (Dave West) Date: Sun Jan 29 13:39:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] References: <200601290923.k0T9NMiD031261@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <00a801c624c5$04812e90$6602a8c0@remains> Message-ID: <004c01c6251c$6e392a70$6700a8c0@CPQ28298264587> I fully agree this guy should be tossed, no explanation or apology necessary. I remember the wrist slapping over the levee discussion and NO vulgarity was involved but it did drag in political garbage. If this flies, what's next? DaveW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schmidt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 6:13 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re:"Jennifer's Rings"[sort of] > personally, I think the guy's a tad unbalanced.....he should be > unsubscribed > > c'mon moderators...there's no excuse for a vulgar rant like that...drunken > or not. > turf the guy > > Michael From agate at cox.net Sun Jan 29 17:24:53 2006 From: agate at cox.net (agate@cox.net) Date: Sun Jan 29 17:32:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Review Message-ID: <20060130013101.HEQX15695.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]> > > From: "Lawrence Rush" > Date: 2006/01/28 Sat PM 04:11:12 EST > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Review > > I had the good fortune to have received for Christmas the new mineral book, > "Masterpieces of the Mineral World". This is an outstanding photo journal of > some of the finest aesthetic crystal pieces residing in the Houston Museum. > The book is > published by the museum, and is written by Wendell Wilson, of MR, and Joel > Bartsch and Mark Mauthner of the museum. > The photography, which is excellent, is by Jeff Scoville and the Van Pelts. > The book sells for $47.50 at Amazon Hugh Hammerslag From michelle at ironimage.com Sun Jan 29 19:30:28 2006 From: michelle at ironimage.com (Michelle Griffith) Date: Sun Jan 29 19:44:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair Message-ID: <05236739-CB00-4722-B751-38069DC169AD@ironimage.com> Hi Rockhounds, My son and daughter are doing a science project on hanksites that they dug up in Trona last October. What are the uses of hanksite, if any? Also, we've left some out in the air and are noticing a white crust/coating forming. What is going on with the crystal would you say? Your list administrator, Carol, told me to tell you to cc me offlist since I'm not a member. Thanks so much for your expert advice. All my best, Michelle Griffith From xossfs at yahoo.com Sun Jan 29 20:10:19 2006 From: xossfs at yahoo.com (Stephen Stover) Date: Sun Jan 29 20:10:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Review In-Reply-To: <43DBF3D1.3080009@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20060130041019.3889.qmail@web33406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> If you like th ebook..... see the museum MUCH more impressive. I have done both and been repeatedly to the Museum (use to live in Houston). Boy, you got to love oil money that buys minerals. --- Dave Guin wrote: > Lawrence Rush wrote: > > > . . . .I had the good fortune to have received > for Christmas the new > > mineral book, "Masterpieces of the Mineral World". > This is an > > outstanding photo journal of some of the finest > aesthetic crystal > > pieces residing in the Houston Museum. The book is > > published by the museum, and is written by Wendell > Wilson, of MR, and > > Joel Bartsch and Mark Mauthner of the museum. > > The photography, which is excellent, is by Jeff > Scoville and the Van > > Pelts. > > . . . . > > This is quite probably the best "coffee-table" > type of mineral book > > yet published, and is sure to delight collectors > of minerals for years > > to come. . . > > > I wholeheartedly agree with this posting. > > Peace, > dave > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > Stephen F. Stover PH (281) 829-1102 xossfs@yahoo.com Wanting to hunt rocks and play games every day! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From pjmodreski at att.net Sun Jan 29 20:41:00 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sun Jan 29 20:41:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair Message-ID: <013020060441.14453.43DD98DB0005F37300003875215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I'll send this reply to Michelle and cc it to the Rockhounds list too, since replies to here question should be of interest. When I searched on google for info about hanksite, I found a letter reproduced online from our our Rockhounds email group from 2003 written by Dr. Bill Cordua of this group; it was archived at, http://lists.drizzle.com/pipermail/rockhounds/2003-August/003920.html (see below for the text) As far as I know, hanksite is not found in massive enough quantities to be, itself, a major source of mineable salts. One can probably say that it is one of many salt minerals mined for their content of sodium and other alkalies. I'm sure you've looked up the chemical formula of hanksite, which is complex and includes sodium, potassium, sulfate, carbonate, and chloride. I don't know what else to say about hanksite, but perhaps others on the list may have something to add. Pete Modreski >Hi all, > Well, it didn't take long for this group to stump the prof. I've >done some book work and cannot find any information on the nature of the >coatings that form on hanksite. I don't have access to the multi-volume >Handbook of Mineralogy, so couldn't check there. It is possible that this >has not been studied. > The process isn't a dehydration, because there is no water in >hanksite's formula. Hanksite is water soluble, so its surfaces are etched >in humid air. I'd speculate that evaporation of thin watery condensate on >the crystal's surface could result in lose of sulfur or some other >component. That could leave a residue of some mixture of hydrated chlorides >or carbonates or ? forming the crusts. Cracks and cleavage surfaces would >allow water to penetrate into the crystal and hasten its deterioration. > Would be an interesting study for someone with the right >equipment. > >best wishes - Bill C. > >Dr. William S. Cordua >Professor of Geology/Mineralogy >University of Wisconsin - River Falls >410 South Third Street >River Falls, WI 54022 >715-425-3139 >william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu -------------- Original message from Michelle Griffith : -------------- > Hi Rockhounds, > > My son and daughter are doing a science project on hanksites that > they dug up in Trona last October. What are the uses of hanksite, if > any? Also, we've left some out in the air and are noticing a white > crust/coating forming. What is going on with the crystal would you say? > > Your list administrator, Carol, told me to tell you to cc me offlist > since I'm not a member. > > Thanks so much for your expert advice. > > All my best, > > Michelle Griffith > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Jan 29 20:52:33 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Jan 29 20:52:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Short trip report Message-ID: Jeanette and I took Friday to visit a rock outcrop we have been eyeing for a while near Mendenhall, Mississippi. It is near the intersection of US49 and MS13. It is easily visible from the highway but the rock face is across a deep slope from the road plus a small creek and through thick woods. Don't waste your time expecting great stuff. The rock face turned out to be soft sandstone and little else. We explored from the creek bottom to very near the top of the face for about a hundred yards, but found little of real interest. There is a small amount of gravel, but we think it was probably hualed in by road builders and some of it eroded into the creek. Lots of sandstone and tough briars. I really thought we'd find limestone and possibly some fossil shells, maybe even some Mississippi agate, but we did get a good workout. And the weather was perfect. Partly sunny and about 60 degrees. There is rock in the nearby area, and the scene in the rocky creek in the movie "O Brother Where Art Thou" was filmed near this spot. But that creek was flooded and muddy. We went on a bit farther and visited family a bit north of Jackson and had a wonderful weekend. Best rocks we saw was the gravel in their driveway. LOL! Glenn ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Get a bird’s eye view of your home with Windows Live Local ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jan 29 20:54:55 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jan 29 20:54:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair References: <05236739-CB00-4722-B751-38069DC169AD@ironimage.com> Message-ID: <43DD9C0F.2301@Tomaszewski.net> Michelle, Hanksite absorbs moisture from the air and slowly deteriorates. There is an excellent series of postings from this list in the archives. See http://lists.drizzle.com/pipermail/rockhounds/2002-December/002490.html and then follow the Next Post link(s) to see the rest of the discussion thread about this issue. Hanksite is an unusual mineral that contains both carbonate and sulfate ion groups. See http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/sulfates/hanksite/hanksite.htm and you may also want to check out webmineral.com and mindat.org for additional scientific details. As far as its economic uses, the only one I am aware of is that hanksite is collected and sold as a mineral specimen. It has potential as an ore of sodium. I hope your children had a wonderful time collecting their specimens, and I applaud their interest in finding out more about what they found. I encourage you to find a rock club near you at http://www.amfed.org to continue their interest in minerals. If you can't grow it, it has to be mined (and plants do their own mining). Rockhounding touches every part of human activity and will help your children understand the world around them throughout their lives. Kreigh Michelle Griffith wrote: > > Hi Rockhounds, > > My son and daughter are doing a science project on hanksites that > they dug up in Trona last October. What are the uses of hanksite, if > any? Also, we've left some out in the air and are noticing a white > crust/coating forming. What is going on with the crystal would you say? > > Your list administrator, Carol, told me to tell you to cc me offlist > since I'm not a member. > > Thanks so much for your expert advice. > > All my best, > > Michelle Griffith From Lapidry at aol.com Mon Jan 30 04:42:42 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Mon Jan 30 04:42:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair Message-ID: <20f.119ceb7d.310f63c2@aol.com> All: I may be way off base, but am I remembering correctly that some people rub hanksite crystals with mineral oil to prevent, or at least slow, the breakdown? Seals it away from the air and humidity? I know this isn't the best thing to ever do to a mineral, but.... Dan In a message dated 1/30/2006 12:11:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: Michelle, Hanksite absorbs moisture from the air and slowly deteriorates. There is an excellent series of postings from this list in the archives. See http://lists.drizzle.com/pipermail/rockhounds/2002-December/002490.html and then follow the Next Post link(s) to see the rest of the discussion thread about this issue. Hanksite is an unusual mineral that contains both carbonate and sulfate ion groups. See http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/sulfates/hanksite/hanksite.htm and you may also want to check out webmineral.com and mindat.org for additional scientific details. As far as its economic uses, the only one I am aware of is that hanksite is collected and sold as a mineral specimen. It has potential as an ore of sodium. I hope your children had a wonderful time collecting their specimens, and I applaud their interest in finding out more about what they found. I encourage you to find a rock club near you at http://www.amfed.org to continue their interest in minerals. If you can't grow it, it has to be mined (and plants do their own mining). Rockhounding touches every part of human activity and will help your children understand the world around them throughout their lives. Kreigh Michelle Griffith wrote: > > Hi Rockhounds, > > My son and daughter are doing a science project on hanksites that > they dug up in Trona last October. What are the uses of hanksite, if > any? Also, we've left some out in the air and are noticing a white > crust/coating forming. What is going on with the crystal would you say? > > Your list administrator, Carol, told me to tell you to cc me offlist > since I'm not a member. > > Thanks so much for your expert advice. > > All my best, > > Michelle Griffith _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 30 07:35:14 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Jan 30 07:35:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair In-Reply-To: <20f.119ceb7d.310f63c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <20060130153514.48404.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You're correct. It goes slow down the deterioration, but contaminates the specimen. The best way to preserve hanksite is in an air-tight container, with some desiccant added. You could put the specimens in a thumbnail box with one of those little packets that come with some electronic equipment or pills, then seal the box shut with glue or putty. Jim Daly --- Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > > All: > > I may be way off base, but am I remembering > correctly that some people rub > hanksite crystals with mineral oil to prevent, or at > least slow, the breakdown? > Seals it away from the air and humidity? I know > this isn't the best thing to > ever do to a mineral, but.... > > Dan > > > In a message dated 1/30/2006 12:11:47 AM Eastern > Standard Time, > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > > Michelle, > > Hanksite absorbs moisture from the air and slowly > deteriorates. There is > an excellent series of postings from this list in > the archives. See > > http://lists.drizzle.com/pipermail/rockhounds/2002-December/002490.html > > and then follow the Next Post link(s) to see the > rest of the discussion > thread about this issue. > > Hanksite is an unusual mineral that contains both > carbonate and sulfate > ion groups. See > > http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/sulfates/hanksite/hanksite.htm > > and you may also want to check out webmineral.com > and mindat.org for > additional scientific details. > > As far as its economic uses, the only one I am > aware of is that hanksite > is collected and sold as a mineral specimen. It has > potential as an ore > of sodium. > > I hope your children had a wonderful time > collecting their specimens, > and I applaud their interest in finding out more > about what they found. > I encourage you to find a rock club near you at > > http://www.amfed.org > > to continue their interest in minerals. If you > can't grow it, it has to > be mined (and plants do their own mining). > Rockhounding touches every > part of human activity and will help your children > understand the world > around them throughout their lives. > > Kreigh > > > > > Michelle Griffith wrote: > > > > Hi Rockhounds, > > > > My son and daughter are doing a science project > on hanksites that > > they dug up in Trona last October. What are the > uses of hanksite, if > > any? Also, we've left some out in the air and > are noticing a white > > crust/coating forming. What is going on with the > crystal would you say? > > > > Your list administrator, Carol, told me to tell > you to cc me offlist > > since I'm not a member. > > > > Thanks so much for your expert advice. > > > > All my best, > > > > Michelle Griffith > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kugeln at msn.com Mon Jan 30 10:21:37 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (JOHN STOCKWELL) Date: Mon Jan 30 10:21:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OsoSoft Labeling Program Question Message-ID: Hi, All, has anyone been able to download and run the program using XP? I don't want to waste time with it if it can't be made to run on XP. Thanks. John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Mon Jan 30 10:46:38 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Mon Jan 30 10:46:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair References: <20060130153514.48404.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001e01c625cd$81a3b1f0$1392b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Is it dessicant we want? I belive the hanksite deterioration is due to LOSING H2O and not to absorbing it from the air. An air tight container is a good idea, but to test this, try one with dessicant inside the container and another with a small piece of damp cloth in the container. I'll bet on the damp one to maintain the hanksite. Erich Kern Murrieta, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair You're correct. It goes slow down the deterioration, but contaminates the specimen. The best way to preserve hanksite is in an air-tight container, with some desiccant added. You could put the specimens in a thumbnail box with one of those little packets that come with some electronic equipment or pills, then seal the box shut with glue or putty. Jim Daly --- Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > > All: > > I may be way off base, but am I remembering > correctly that some people rub > hanksite crystals with mineral oil to prevent, or at > least slow, the breakdown? > Seals it away from the air and humidity? I know > this isn't the best thing to > ever do to a mineral, but.... > > Dan > > > In a message dated 1/30/2006 12:11:47 AM Eastern > Standard Time, > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: > > Michelle, > > Hanksite absorbs moisture from the air and slowly > deteriorates. There is > an excellent series of postings from this list in > the archives. See > > http://lists.drizzle.com/pipermail/rockhounds/2002-December/002490.html > > and then follow the Next Post link(s) to see the > rest of the discussion > thread about this issue. > > Hanksite is an unusual mineral that contains both > carbonate and sulfate > ion groups. See > > http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/sulfates/hanksite/hanksite.htm > > and you may also want to check out webmineral.com > and mindat.org for > additional scientific details. > > As far as its economic uses, the only one I am > aware of is that hanksite > is collected and sold as a mineral specimen. It has > potential as an ore > of sodium. > > I hope your children had a wonderful time > collecting their specimens, > and I applaud their interest in finding out more > about what they found. > I encourage you to find a rock club near you at > > http://www.amfed.org > > to continue their interest in minerals. If you > can't grow it, it has to > be mined (and plants do their own mining). > Rockhounding touches every > part of human activity and will help your children > understand the world > around them throughout their lives. > > Kreigh > > > > > Michelle Griffith wrote: > > > > Hi Rockhounds, > > > > My son and daughter are doing a science project > on hanksites that > > they dug up in Trona last October. What are the > uses of hanksite, if > > any? Also, we've left some out in the air and > are noticing a white > > crust/coating forming. What is going on with the > crystal would you say? > > > > Your list administrator, Carol, told me to tell > you to cc me offlist > > since I'm not a member. > > > > Thanks so much for your expert advice. > > > > All my best, > > > > Michelle Griffith > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From calcite65 at earthlink.net Mon Jan 30 10:55:37 2006 From: calcite65 at earthlink.net (Charles Creekmur) Date: Mon Jan 30 10:56:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OsoSoft Labeling Program Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060130125358.01b3fc90@earthlink.net> John, I am running MinLabel from OsoSoft on XP and although I don"t use it often, it does run with no problems. Charles At 12:21 PM 1/30/2006, you wrote: >Hi, All, has anyone been able to download and run the program using >XP? I don't want to waste time with it if it can't be made to run on XP. > >Thanks. > >John > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jan 30 11:27:02 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jan 30 11:27:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair Message-ID: <013020061927.26204.43DE6885000A45330000665C216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hanksite itself is not a hydrate, the chemical formula is just an anhydrous sulfate-carbonate-chloride of Na and K, K Na22 (SO4)9 (CO3)2 Cl so, simple dehydration is not involved, though I agree that's what one would think, from looking at the chalky surface coating that develops. (I think Bill Cordua pointed this out in that past post from our archive). I think it's related to the fact that some of the chloride minerals, especially when they are impure and contain traces of Mg and/or Ca, can be "deliquescent", the chemical term for salts that have such a strong affinity for water that they absorb it from the air in humid environments, and will actually "dissolve themselves" in the water thus absorbed (CaCl2 and MgCl2 are classic examples of this, hence they are used to melt ice and as road de-icers). I suspect that if the hanksite is once exposed to an environment that has high or even moderate humidity, it will form a thin surface coating of liquid, or of readily soluble, hydrated salts, which dissolves and etches the surface and makes it cloudy, and then a crystal would be increasingly subject to more of the same effect and will become more etched, whenever the humidy is high enough. I believe I have had one or more crystals that were coated with mineral oil, and this seemed to keep them reasonably unaltered, though I've always had them in our fairly dry environment, in NM or CO. Some of the minerals that are known to be deliquescent are, carnallite, KMgCl3.6H2O chlorocalcite, KCaCl3 erythrosiderite, K2FeCl5.H2O hydrophilite, CaCl2 (the name means "water-loving") lawrencite, (Fe,Ni)Cl2 nitratine, NaNO3 ("soda niter") scacchite, MnCl2 And that's why these are rare, and found only in very dry environments (several of these, I see, are found as a volcanic sublimates). And this is why saltpeter (KNO3) is used in gunpowder and never NaNO3, because the latter will absorb water and become moist. And lawrencite is a problem-causisng decomposition product in iron meteorites. But so, yes, a dessicant (or at any rate, somehow keeping moisture away from it) is what will keep hanksite intact. Pete -------------- Original message from "Erich Kern" : -------------- > > Is it dessicant we want? > > I belive the hanksite deterioration is due to LOSING H2O and not to absorbing > it > from the air. An air tight container is a good idea, but to test this, try one > with > dessicant inside the container and another with a small piece of damp cloth in > the > container. I'll bet on the damp one to maintain the hanksite. > > Erich Kern > Murrieta, CA > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Mon Jan 30 11:32:25 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Jan 30 11:32:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair In-Reply-To: <001e01c625cd$81a3b1f0$1392b2d1@TheBlackAdder> References: <20060130153514.48404.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001e01c625cd$81a3b1f0$1392b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060130113027.03293270@orerockon.com> That is not true. See http://www1.iwvisp.com/tronagemclub/SpecimenCare.html At 10:46 AM 1/30/2006, you wrote: >Is it dessicant we want? > >I belive the hanksite deterioration is due to LOSING H2O and not to >absorbing it >from the air. An air tight container is a good idea, but to test >this, try one with >dessicant inside the container and another with a small piece of >damp cloth in the >container. I'll bet on the damp one to maintain the hanksite. > >Erich Kern >Murrieta, CA Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu Mon Jan 30 11:49:22 2006 From: william.s.cordua at uwrf.edu (William Cordua) Date: Mon Jan 30 11:49:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico aragonite pseudomorph In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060130113027.03293270@orerockon.com> Message-ID: Hi, This week-end I was at a mall where a person was selling off a lot of mineral specimens in a liquidation. I (of course!) rummaged through the flats and bought a few things. One of the most interesting things was labeled "Barite pseudomorph after aragonite". It was a gray-white color, about 5 cm. across and had the perfect form of a pseudo-hex. aragonite twin. Now it seemed replaced by a somewhat porous mass of barite (?) crystals. It was a sample that only a mineral collector could love. The locality label said "New Mexico". I checked MinDat and found a lot of New Mexico aragonite localities, but couldn't really make any head-way as to which one - if any - this might have came from. Anybody familiar with this material and able to give me a better clue as to where it may have come from? Thanks! Bill Cordua Dr. William S. Cordua Professor of Geology/Mineralogy University of Wisconsin - River Falls 410 South Third Street River Falls, WI 54022 715-425-3139 william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Jan 30 14:32:22 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Jan 30 14:33:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060130113027.03293270@orerockon.com> References: <20060130153514.48404.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001e01c625cd$81a3b1f0$1392b2d1@TheBlackAdder> <7.0.0.16.2.20060130113027.03293270@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <43DE93F6.1000306@verizon.net> Hi all, So we're in mineralogy class today, and my professor says "did anyone hear the story about minerals on NPR this weekend?" (I listen to BCC on the weekends, because NPR has that weird Lake Woebegon dude and I can't handle it). But sure enough, on their website, they had the story archived: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175452 It happens that there is fair amount of material on the Sterling Hill Mining Museum and some fluorescent minerals, but there is also information on the Smithsonian, the Tuscon show, and the discovery of pezzottaite. Most impressive are the correct details describing rocks vs. minerals and how the IMA functions. Have fun, Don From tfa at brickengraver.com Mon Jan 30 15:52:54 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon Jan 30 15:52:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included In-Reply-To: <43DE93F6.1000306@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000f01c625f8$4a3df790$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Ok Don--them ARE fighting words. That weird guy as you call him is America's preeminent humorist. Ever tasteful, ever insightful, and always funny--as well as having great music and musicians on his show. I even went out and bought one of the first stereo video tape recorders, not to record TV, but Garrison Keillor. Cost me $750 and still have tapes from 20 years ago. You need to give him another chance, perhaps with a good bottle of wine. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. Walker Percy Signposts in a Strange Land -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 5:32 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included Hi all, So we're in mineralogy class today, and my professor says "did anyone hear the story about minerals on NPR this weekend?" (I listen to BCC on the weekends, because NPR has that weird Lake Woebegon dude and I can't handle it). But sure enough, on their website, they had the story archived: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175452 It happens that there is fair amount of material on the Sterling Hill Mining Museum and some fluorescent minerals, but there is also information on the Smithsonian, the Tuscon show, and the discovery of pezzottaite. Most impressive are the correct details describing rocks vs. minerals and how the IMA functions. Have fun, Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Jan 30 16:08:44 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jan 30 16:08:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included In-Reply-To: <000f01c625f8$4a3df790$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> References: <43DE93F6.1000306@verizon.net> <000f01c625f8$4a3df790$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: Yeah he might have been funny 20 years ago before he entered politics from the Josep Stalin wing. BK On 1/30/06, Tommy Armstrong wrote: > > Ok Don--them ARE fighting words. That weird guy as you call him is > America's > preeminent humorist. Ever tasteful, ever insightful, and always funny--as > well as having great music and musicians on his show. I even went out and > bought one of the first stereo video tape recorders, not to record TV, but > Garrison Keillor. Cost me $750 and still have tapes from 20 years ago. > > You need to give him another chance, perhaps with a good bottle of wine. > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > > Walker Percy > Signposts in a Strange Land > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 5:32 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included > > > Hi all, > > So we're in mineralogy class today, and my professor says "did anyone hear > the story about minerals on NPR this weekend?" (I listen to BCC on the > weekends, because NPR has that weird Lake Woebegon dude and I can't handle > it). But sure enough, on their website, they had the story archived: > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175452 > > It happens that there is fair amount of material on the Sterling Hill > Mining > Museum and some fluorescent minerals, but there is also information on the > Smithsonian, the Tuscon show, and the discovery of pezzottaite. Most > impressive are the correct details describing rocks vs. minerals and how > the > IMA functions. > > Have fun, > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tfa at brickengraver.com Mon Jan 30 16:38:22 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon Jan 30 16:38:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001801c625fe$a421fe90$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> We are obviously talking about a different person--the Keillor to whom I am referring is about as far away from anything Stalin as anyone alive. Maybe a bit too liberal for me in a few areas--and a bit too conservative for me in others. ????????? But we do not need to get reprimanded for talking about politics and religion on the list so I will cease. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 7:09 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included Yeah he might have been funny 20 years ago before he entered politics from the Josep Stalin wing. BK On 1/30/06, Tommy Armstrong wrote: > > Ok Don--them ARE fighting words. That weird guy as you call him is > America's preeminent humorist. Ever tasteful, ever insightful, and > always funny--as well as having great music and musicians on his show. > I even went out and bought one of the first stereo video tape > recorders, not to record TV, but Garrison Keillor. Cost me $750 and > still have tapes from 20 years ago. > > You need to give him another chance, perhaps with a good bottle of wine. > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > > Walker Percy > Signposts in a Strange Land > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 5:32 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included > > > Hi all, > > So we're in mineralogy class today, and my professor says "did anyone > hear the story about minerals on NPR this weekend?" (I listen to BCC > on the weekends, because NPR has that weird Lake Woebegon dude and I > can't handle it). But sure enough, on their website, they had the story archived: > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175452 > > It happens that there is fair amount of material on the Sterling Hill > Mining Museum and some fluorescent minerals, but there is also > information on the Smithsonian, the Tuscon show, and the discovery of > pezzottaite. Most impressive are the correct details describing rocks > vs. minerals and how the IMA functions. > > Have fun, > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From rpr at heidelberg.edu Sun Jan 29 19:12:58 2006 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Mon Jan 30 16:58:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Marginally off-topic esoterica In-Reply-To: <001b01c613ad$ea72f470$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> References: <001b01c613ad$ea72f470$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: OK, this is obscure, but at least not offensive (except for how I feel about Bill G.). I am working on a famous list of calcite forms produced by Charles Palache in 1943. Since this is about calcite, it's not officially off topic, but most folks will want to tune out soon.... I have scanned the original document, done optical character recognition, paid the price over and over again proofing the OCR, and finally put the results into Microsoft Word. I did not have any reasonable way to make the superior bars that are put over numbers in traditional Miller index notation to represent negative numbers, so I underlined the negative indices instead. Now I want to export the data and do some mathematical checking to be sure the entries are consistent. To do so, I have to find a way to identify the underlined numbers as entire numbers (i.e. not just underlined digits, one at a time, but a number in the range 1 to 999, underlined), and put a minus sign in front of the number. Removing the underline is relatively easy, and probably trivial since when I export the data the underlines will probably disappear, anyway. I.e. the problem is how to change this strange notation into a regular negative number. Any Office-savvy nerds out there who can give me a way to make this editing change in Word, so I can get my real data outside of Word and work on it with mathematical correctness? I can find the relevant numbers (though there are some problems with word underline vs simple underline, left over from the OCR), but I can't figure out how to tell Word to replace them with the same value (with added minus sign) instead of replacing them with the wild card! Wow, yeah, that's a stretch. But it's all in the name of calcite! I promise not to post a digest of the resulting communications.... Cheers, Pete Richards -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jan 30 17:06:58 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jan 30 17:07:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! Message-ID: <013120060106.11640.43DEB831000F066500002D78216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi Don, I read your email and picked up on something else (the real content of it) and was about to write back to you here, when I saw the replies relating to "the weird dude". That's funny, because I did not even remember that being in your email, it didn't make any impression on me I guess, so I had to go back & look, shure 'nuff, it was there. But, I was tickled to see what you wrote and was going to write back to thank you for writing that post and the NPR story link--and I would have just written offline, but for the others had already commented on the "non rock" aspects of it, so I might as well write back about the MINERAL content! It's just that, and this is amusing, a friend had mentioned to me hearing NPR talk about minerals and the Tucson show the other day, and had said, "They talked about some interesting new mineral, it started with a "P" and the first syllable sounded like "Pi__" (you can supply the s's), what was that name they were saying, and did you see that mineral at the show last year?" Also there was "a little brown mineral form China" mentioned too. Well, I thought hard but had no clue what mineral they would have been talking about. I had not yet gotten so ambitious as to search the NPR website, I didn't really think there would be transcript of that story (but as Don showed us, there was), and so I was just happy as a clam for Don to end my puzzle and tell me what the mineral was, which was, "of course, I should have guessed it", pezzottaite. So, thanks a lot, Don! (Just being told "the name started with pi__, it sounded like something unpolite" was not enough of a clue for me to focus in on that mineral name.) And the other new mineral, brown xls on rose quartz, from China, was, hubeite. So there, Don, you never know what unexpressed need of a list member you are going to be just exactly answering, by posting something like that to the Rockhounds list. Plus, you get the side benefit of agravating people who are G.K. fans. (Hey, I like him; in moderation.) cheers, Pete -------------- Original message from DonH : -------------- > > Hi all, > > So we're in mineralogy class today, and my professor says "did anyone > hear the story about minerals on NPR this weekend?" (I listen to BCC on > the weekends, because NPR has that weird Lake Woebegon dude and I can't > handle it). But sure enough, on their website, they had the story archived: > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175452 > > It happens that there is fair amount of material on the Sterling Hill > Mining Museum and some fluorescent minerals, but there is also > information on the Smithsonian, the Tuscon show, and the discovery of > pezzottaite. Most impressive are the correct details describing rocks > vs. minerals and how the IMA functions. > > Have fun, > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Mon Jan 30 17:08:47 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Mon Jan 30 17:08:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included References: <001801c625fe$a421fe90$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <000b01c62602$e4b22cb0$9f96b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Tommy, before reading your post I was going to put in my two cents on loving Garrison Keillor's folksy wit and wisdom and at the same time having a wee bit of raging contempt for his politics. I grew up in a small town full of Lutherans the way Keillor did, and his schtick speaks to my earliest small town memories. But, you're right, this forum shouldn't be about politics or religion. Erich Kern ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:38 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included We are obviously talking about a different person--the Keillor to whom I am referring is about as far away from anything Stalin as anyone alive. Maybe a bit too liberal for me in a few areas--and a bit too conservative for me in others. ????????? But we do not need to get reprimanded for talking about politics and religion on the list so I will cease. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 7:09 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included Yeah he might have been funny 20 years ago before he entered politics from the Josep Stalin wing. BK On 1/30/06, Tommy Armstrong wrote: > > Ok Don--them ARE fighting words. That weird guy as you call him is > America's preeminent humorist. Ever tasteful, ever insightful, and > always funny--as well as having great music and musicians on his show. > I even went out and bought one of the first stereo video tape > recorders, not to record TV, but Garrison Keillor. Cost me $750 and > still have tapes from 20 years ago. > > You need to give him another chance, perhaps with a good bottle of wine. > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > > Walker Percy > Signposts in a Strange Land > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 5:32 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included > > > Hi all, > > So we're in mineralogy class today, and my professor says "did anyone > hear the story about minerals on NPR this weekend?" (I listen to BCC > on the weekends, because NPR has that weird Lake Woebegon dude and I > can't handle it). But sure enough, on their website, they had the story archived: > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175452 > > It happens that there is fair amount of material on the Sterling Hill > Mining Museum and some fluorescent minerals, but there is also > information on the Smithsonian, the Tuscon show, and the discovery of > pezzottaite. Most impressive are the correct details describing rocks > vs. minerals and how the IMA functions. > > Have fun, > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Jan 30 17:17:28 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jan 30 17:17:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Marginally off-topic esoterica In-Reply-To: References: <001b01c613ad$ea72f470$456eca0c@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Word has a fairly capable equation editor, a PITA to use but it does work. Just type in equation in word help and it will tell you how to do everything you want to do, IIRC. I only use it occasioanlly. BTW that has been in Word for a long time, a freebie from Bill Gates who just gave $900,000,000 to TB research. BK On 1/29/06, R. Peter Richards wrote: > > OK, this is obscure, but at least not offensive (except for how I > feel about Bill G.). I am working on a famous list of calcite forms > produced by Charles Palache in 1943. Since this is about calcite, > it's not officially off topic, but most folks will want to tune out > soon.... > > I have scanned the original document, done optical character > recognition, paid the price over and over again proofing the OCR, and > finally put the results into Microsoft Word. I did not have any > reasonable way to make the superior bars that are put over numbers in > traditional Miller index notation to represent negative numbers, so I > underlined the negative indices instead. > > Now I want to export the data and do some mathematical checking to be > sure the entries are consistent. To do so, I have to find a way to > identify the underlined numbers as entire numbers (i.e. not just > underlined digits, one at a time, but a number in the range 1 to 999, > underlined), and put a minus sign in front of the number. Removing > the underline is relatively easy, and probably trivial since when I > export the data the underlines will probably disappear, anyway. I.e. > the problem is how to change this strange notation into a regular > negative number. > > Any Office-savvy nerds out there who can give me a way to make this > editing change in Word, so I can get my real data outside of Word and > work on it with mathematical correctness? I can find the relevant > numbers (though there are some problems with word underline vs simple > underline, left over from the OCR), but I can't figure out how to > tell Word to replace them with the same value (with added minus sign) > instead of replacing them with the wild card! > > Wow, yeah, that's a stretch. But it's all in the name of calcite! I > promise not to post a digest of the resulting communications.... > > Cheers, > Pete Richards > > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tfa at brickengraver.com Mon Jan 30 17:37:59 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon Jan 30 17:37:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Marginally off-topic esoterica In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003001c62606$f81da730$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> If you could perhaps send me a snippet, I might be able to help you. One thing you might want to do is to change the font to @Arial Unicode MS which contains a lot of scientific characters. Including a macron among others. Go to programs, accessories, system tools, character map and you will see many symbols not available in a normal font. Mr. Don wanted to make sure we could use these characters so we made it kind of the default font for our database. On your find and replace, you might have to use a little visual basic code and write a custom macro searching for what you want to search for using character codes and replacing it with. If you would send me a bit of the word doc that you are trying to fix, I might be able to help you. Are you for example trying to turn 833 underscored into -833? >From Word Help (2003 version) "Insert characters by using Unicode and code page values If you know the Unicode (Unicode: A character encoding standard developed by the Unicode Consortium. By using more than one byte to represent each character, Unicode enables almost all of the written languages in the world to be represented by using a single character set.) (hexadecimal) value of a character, you can use the ALT+X keyboard shortcut to enter the character directly in your document. Type the Unicode (hexadecimal) value of the character. Note The value string can also begin with U+. Press ALT+X. Microsoft Word replaces the string to the left of the insertion point with the character you specified. Tips You can also use ALT+X to display the Unicode character code for a particular character. Place the insertion point to the right of the character, and then press ALT+X. The character is replaced by its character code. Press ALT+X again to switch back to the character. You can convert a character to Unicode if it is currently encoded according to the system code page. To do so, type x before the character, place the insertion point after the character, press ALT+X, and then press ALT+X again. " Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 tfa@brickengraver.com http://www.brickengraver.com "Science is extraordinarily stupid about people as people and the consequence of this stupidity is going to do us all in if we don't do something about it" Walker Percy -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of R. Peter Richards Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 10:13 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Marginally off-topic esoterica OK, this is obscure, but at least not offensive (except for how I feel about Bill G.). I am working on a famous list of calcite forms produced by Charles Palache in 1943. Since this is about calcite, it's not officially off topic, but most folks will want to tune out soon.... I have scanned the original document, done optical character recognition, paid the price over and over again proofing the OCR, and finally put the results into Microsoft Word. I did not have any reasonable way to make the superior bars that are put over numbers in traditional Miller index notation to represent negative numbers, so I underlined the negative indices instead. Now I want to export the data and do some mathematical checking to be sure the entries are consistent. To do so, I have to find a way to identify the underlined numbers as entire numbers (i.e. not just underlined digits, one at a time, but a number in the range 1 to 999, underlined), and put a minus sign in front of the number. Removing the underline is relatively easy, and probably trivial since when I export the data the underlines will probably disappear, anyway. I.e. the problem is how to change this strange notation into a regular negative number. Any Office-savvy nerds out there who can give me a way to make this editing change in Word, so I can get my real data outside of Word and work on it with mathematical correctness? I can find the relevant numbers (though there are some problems with word underline vs simple underline, left over from the OCR), but I can't figure out how to tell Word to replace them with the same value (with added minus sign) instead of replacing them with the wild card! Wow, yeah, that's a stretch. But it's all in the name of calcite! I promise not to post a digest of the resulting communications.... Cheers, Pete Richards -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Jan 30 17:42:49 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Jan 30 17:42:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair In-Reply-To: <013020061927.26204.43DE6885000A45330000665C216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Regular table salt does that here where we have humidity as high as it gets. Folks used to put rice in salt shakers to keep the salt crystals from melting into lumps. It is not so bad now that most homes are heated and cooled and indoor humidity is a bit lower. I soaked some really nice pink halide cabinet specimen in baby oil and let it "dry" on paper towels - no rubbing as that would likely damage the formation. Glenn From: pjmodreski@att.net >Hanksite itself is not a hydrate, the chemical formula is just an anhydrous sulfate-carbonate-chloride of Na and K, K Na22 (SO4)9 (CO3)2 Cl >so, simple dehydration is not involved, though I agree that's what one would think, from looking at the chalky surface coating that develops. (I think Bill Cordua pointed this out in that past post from our archive). > >I think it's related to the fact that some of the chloride minerals, especially when they are impure and contain traces of Mg and/or Ca, can be "deliquescent", the chemical term for salts that have such a strong affinity for water that they absorb it from the air in humid environments, and will actually "dissolve themselves" in the water thus absorbed (CaCl2 and MgCl2 are classic examples of this, hence they are used to melt ice and as road de-icers). I suspect that if the hanksite is once exposed to an environment that has high or even moderate humidity, it will form a thin surface coating of liquid, or of readily soluble, hydrated salts, which dissolves and etches the surface and makes it cloudy, and then a crystal would be increasingly subject to more of the same effect and will become more etched, whenever the humidy is high enough. > >I believe I have had one or more crystals that were coated with mineral oil, and this seemed to keep them reasonably unaltered, though I've always had them in our fairly dry environment, in NM or CO. > >Some of the minerals that are known to be deliquescent are, > >carnallite, KMgCl3.6H2O >chlorocalcite, KCaCl3 >erythrosiderite, K2FeCl5.H2O >hydrophilite, CaCl2 (the name means "water-loving") >lawrencite, (Fe,Ni)Cl2 >nitratine, NaNO3 ("soda niter") >scacchite, MnCl2 > >And that's why these are rare, and found only in very dry environments (several of these, I see, are found as a volcanic sublimates). And this is why saltpeter (KNO3) is used in gunpowder and never NaNO3, because the latter will absorb water and become moist. And lawrencite is a problem-causisng decomposition product in iron meteorites. > >But so, yes, a dessicant (or at any rate, somehow keeping moisture away from it) is what will keep hanksite intact. > >Pete ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Download today's top songs at MSN Music from artists like U2, Eminem, & Kelly Clarkson ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From tfa at brickengraver.com Mon Jan 30 17:59:48 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon Jan 30 17:59:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Marginally off-topic esoterica In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003101c6260a$04d34180$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Thanks-I forgot about that. Glad you reminded me. Very useful. I wonder when we will see Linus Torvalds make his first billion dollar donation to world health? Now if Paul Allen had just not signed that darn quarterback, perhaps the Panthers would be in the Super Bowl. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to rescue you." W Percy -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:17 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Marginally off-topic esoterica Word has a fairly capable equation editor, a PITA to use but it does work. Just type in equation in word help and it will tell you how to do everything you want to do, IIRC. I only use it occasioanlly. BTW that has been in Word for a long time, a freebie from Bill Gates who just gave $900,000,000 to TB research. BK On 1/29/06, R. Peter Richards wrote: > > OK, this is obscure, but at least not offensive (except for how I feel > about Bill G.). I am working on a famous list of calcite forms > produced by Charles Palache in 1943. Since this is about calcite, it's > not officially off topic, but most folks will want to tune out > soon.... > > I have scanned the original document, done optical character > recognition, paid the price over and over again proofing the OCR, and > finally put the results into Microsoft Word. I did not have any > reasonable way to make the superior bars that are put over numbers in > traditional Miller index notation to represent negative numbers, so I > underlined the negative indices instead. > > Now I want to export the data and do some mathematical checking to be > sure the entries are consistent. To do so, I have to find a way to > identify the underlined numbers as entire numbers (i.e. not just > underlined digits, one at a time, but a number in the range 1 to 999, > underlined), and put a minus sign in front of the number. Removing > the underline is relatively easy, and probably trivial since when I > export the data the underlines will probably disappear, anyway. I.e. > the problem is how to change this strange notation into a regular > negative number. > > Any Office-savvy nerds out there who can give me a way to make this > editing change in Word, so I can get my real data outside of Word and > work on it with mathematical correctness? I can find the relevant > numbers (though there are some problems with word underline vs simple > underline, left over from the OCR), but I can't figure out how to tell > Word to replace them with the same value (with added minus sign) > instead of replacing them with the wild card! > > Wow, yeah, that's a stretch. But it's all in the name of calcite! I > promise not to post a digest of the resulting communications.... > > Cheers, > Pete Richards > > > > -- > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > R. Peter Richards > rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu > > Mineral collector > Crystallographer > SHAPE for the Macintosh > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Jan 30 18:06:46 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Jan 30 18:07:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included In-Reply-To: <000f01c625f8$4a3df790$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: There is just no accounting for the lack in ability of some to enjoy really good stuff...classical music, opera, real theater, literature, natures miraculous creations... Give Don a chance to mature like a fine wine... He is in school and as he develops appreciation for some things he will be better able to appreciate many others...maybe even stuff like Keillor's stories and music. BTW, cool link Don! Glenn From: "Tommy Armstrong" <tfa@brickengraver.com> >Ok Don--them ARE fighting words. That weird guy as you call him is America's >preeminent humorist. Ever tasteful, ever insightful, and always funny--as >well as having great music and musicians on his show. I even went out and >bought one of the first stereo video tape recorders, not to record TV, but >Garrison Keillor. Cost me $750 and still have tapes from 20 years ago. > >You need to give him another chance, perhaps with a good bottle of wine. > >Tommy Armstrong >PO Box 484 >Lillington, NC 27546 >http://www.brickengraver.com > >...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about >individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > >Walker Percy >Signposts in a Strange Land > : [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included > > >Hi all, > >So we're in mineralogy class today, and my professor says "did anyone hear >the story about minerals on NPR this weekend?" (I listen to BCC on the >weekends, because NPR has that weird Lake Woebegon dude and I can't handle >it). But sure enough, on their website, they had the story archived: > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175452 > >It happens that there is fair amount of material on the Sterling Hill Mining >Museum and some fluorescent minerals, but there is also information on the >Smithsonian, the Tuscon show, and the discovery of pezzottaite. Most >impressive are the correct details describing rocks vs. minerals and how the >IMA functions. > >Have fun, >Don > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ 3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From bova at mindspring.com Mon Jan 30 19:33:48 2006 From: bova at mindspring.com (Carol J. Bova) Date: Mon Jan 30 19:32:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair In-Reply-To: <001e01c625cd$81a3b1f0$1392b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <64387C57-920A-11DA-B327-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Borax is the one that dehydrates and alters to tincalconite, taking the shape of the borax crystals. (I don't know which, if any, of the other Trona materials change with dehydration.) Hanksite is best preserved by being sealed in an airtight container in a relatively dry environment to begin with. I have a couple of small hanksite specimens from Trona, California, that are about 9 years old and show almost no change because the plastic bags they are in have never been opened, and the baggies are stored in a sealed plastic box. Others hanksites that I collected and kept on an open tray did well for a number of years because of the low humidity where I lived, until they melted under a leak from a heavy rainfall. Carol Carol J. Bova On Monday, January 30, 2006, at 01:46 PM, Erich Kern wrote: > > Is it dessicant we want? > > I belive the hanksite deterioration is due to LOSING H2O and not to > absorbing it > from the air. An air tight container is a good idea, but to test this, > try one with > dessicant inside the container and another with a small piece of damp > cloth in the > container. I'll bet on the damp one to maintain the hanksite. > > Erich Kern > Murrieta, CA > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Daly" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 7:35 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair > > > You're correct. It goes slow down the deterioration, > but contaminates the specimen. The best way to > preserve hanksite is in an air-tight container, with > some desiccant added. You could put the specimens in a > thumbnail box with one of those little packets that > come with some electronic equipment or pills, then > seal the box shut with glue or putty. > Jim Daly > > --- Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > >> >> All: >> >> I may be way off base, but am I remembering >> correctly that some people rub >> hanksite crystals with mineral oil to prevent, or at >> least slow, the breakdown? >> Seals it away from the air and humidity? I know >> this isn't the best thing to >> ever do to a mineral, but.... >> >> Dan >> >> >> In a message dated 1/30/2006 12:11:47 AM Eastern >> Standard Time, >> Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: >> >> Michelle, >> >> Hanksite absorbs moisture from the air and slowly >> deteriorates. There is >> an excellent series of postings from this list in >> the archives. See >> >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/pipermail/rockhounds/2002-December/002490.html >> >> and then follow the Next Post link(s) to see the >> rest of the discussion >> thread about this issue. >> >> Hanksite is an unusual mineral that contains both >> carbonate and sulfate >> ion groups. See >> >> > http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/sulfates/hanksite/hanksite.htm >> >> and you may also want to check out webmineral.com >> and mindat.org for >> additional scientific details. >> >> As far as its economic uses, the only one I am >> aware of is that hanksite >> is collected and sold as a mineral specimen. It has >> potential as an ore >> of sodium. >> >> I hope your children had a wonderful time >> collecting their specimens, >> and I applaud their interest in finding out more >> about what they found. >> I encourage you to find a rock club near you at >> >> http://www.amfed.org >> >> to continue their interest in minerals. If you >> can't grow it, it has to >> be mined (and plants do their own mining). >> Rockhounding touches every >> part of human activity and will help your children >> understand the world >> around them throughout their lives. >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> >> Michelle Griffith wrote: >>> >>> Hi Rockhounds, >>> >>> My son and daughter are doing a science project >> on hanksites that >>> they dug up in Trona last October. What are the >> uses of hanksite, if >>> any? Also, we've left some out in the air and >> are noticing a white >>> crust/coating forming. What is going on with the >> crystal would you say? >>> >>> Your list administrator, Carol, told me to tell >> you to cc me offlist >>> since I'm not a member. >>> >>> Thanks so much for your expert advice. >>> >>> All my best, >>> >>> Michelle Griffith >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tfa at brickengraver.com Mon Jan 30 19:33:21 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon Jan 30 19:33:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003201c62617$1676de30$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> That's the thing--I know he knows how to appreciate good scotch (or was it bourbon) and fine mineral speciemens--I am at a complete loss as to why does not appreciate GK. Its just a mystery. Maybe you are right, I hope so, that with maturity he will come around. I would hate the thought of such an intelligent mind to be deprived of the intellectual and sensual joy and subtle humor that emanates from Lake Wobegon. Its just a mystery, just a mystery. Tommy Armstrong PO Box 484 Lillington, NC 27546 http://www.brickengraver.com The search is what anyone would undertake if he were not sunk in the everydayness of his own life. To become aware of the possibility of the search is to be onto something. Not to be onto something is to be in despair. Walker Percy -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Wimpee Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 9:07 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included There is just no accounting for the lack in ability of some to enjoy really good stuff...classical music, opera, real theater, literature, natures miraculous creations... Give Don a chance to mature like a fine wine... He is in school and as he develops appreciation for some things he will be better able to appreciate many others...maybe even stuff like Keillor's stories and music. BTW, cool link Don! Glenn From: "Tommy Armstrong" <tfa@brickengraver.com> >Ok Don--them ARE fighting words. That weird guy as you call him is America's >preeminent humorist. Ever tasteful, ever insightful, and always funny--as >well as having great music and musicians on his show. I even went out and >bought one of the first stereo video tape recorders, not to record TV, but >Garrison Keillor. Cost me $750 and still have tapes from 20 years ago. > >You need to give him another chance, perhaps with a good bottle of wine. > >Tommy Armstrong >PO Box 484 >Lillington, NC 27546 >http://www.brickengraver.com > >...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about >individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > >Walker Percy >Signposts in a Strange Land > : [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included > > >Hi all, > >So we're in mineralogy class today, and my professor says "did anyone hear >the story about minerals on NPR this weekend?" (I listen to BCC on the >weekends, because NPR has that weird Lake Woebegon dude and I can't handle >it). But sure enough, on their website, they had the story archived: > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175452 > >It happens that there is fair amount of material on the Sterling Hill Mining >Museum and some fluorescent minerals, but there is also information on the >Smithsonian, the Tuscon show, and the discovery of pezzottaite. Most >impressive are the correct details describing rocks vs. minerals and how the >IMA functions. > >Have fun, >Don > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ 3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From kahako at verizon.net Mon Jan 30 19:39:00 2006 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jan 30 19:39:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mauna Kea snow (OT) Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060130172231.022ad358@incoming.verizon.net> Since many rockhounds are interested in meteorology, perhaps you'd like to know that there is a foot of snow in Mauna Kea. While it's been snowing up there, it's been raining over the rest of the Big Island for many days. Here in Hilo we got over 5 inches of rain two days in a row last week (almost 27 cm. in 48 hours). This was the first sunny day we've had in three weeks, and some brave---or foolhardy---folks were skiing today, not an easy activity at nearly 14,000 ft (4205 metres) in altitude, with no ski facilities (like tows). Aloha, Kitty From smtravis at plateautel.net Mon Jan 30 19:48:03 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Mon Jan 30 19:48:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico aragonite pseudomorph References: Message-ID: <033501c62619$23c6d930$259e5a40@marilyn> Bill I am from the Carlsbad area and I see these occasionally I think they are from our area, southeast of Carlsbad but I will do some asking around and try to find the location probably Eddy or Lea Co. NM. I have a piece I purchased at out silent auction that is about 2.5 " tall and about 6" around. They can bee fairly large. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Cordua" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 12:49 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico aragonite pseudomorph > Hi, > This week-end I was at a mall where a person was selling off a lot of > mineral specimens in a liquidation. I (of course!) rummaged through the > flats and bought a few things. One of the most interesting things was > labeled "Barite pseudomorph after aragonite". It was a gray-white color, > about 5 cm. across and had the perfect form of a pseudo-hex. aragonite > twin. > Now it seemed replaced by a somewhat porous mass of barite (?) crystals. > It > was a sample that only a mineral collector could love. > > The locality label said "New Mexico". I checked MinDat and found a lot of > New Mexico aragonite localities, but couldn't really make any head-way as > to > which one - if any - this might have came from. Anybody familiar with this > material and able to give me a better clue as to where it may have come > from? > > Thanks! > > Bill Cordua > > Dr. William S. Cordua > Professor of Geology/Mineralogy > University of Wisconsin - River Falls > 410 South Third Street > River Falls, WI 54022 > 715-425-3139 > william.s.cordua@uwrf.edu > http://www.uwrf.edu/~william.s.cordua/ > "Speak to the Earth and it shall teach thee" - Job 12:8 > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Jan 30 19:48:47 2006 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Jan 30 19:48:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hanksite article--how to clean and preserve In-Reply-To: <200601310233.k0V2XjDp031684@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20060131034847.96783.qmail@web60812.mail.yahoo.com> In response to the question about hanksite, I append an article I wrote for a newsletter a couple years back when I went thru my hanksite obsession. Hanksite, ironically, is what got me on this list--searching for info on how to fix the white crust! This article discusses general properties, cleaning and preserving. It isn't quite as technical as Pete's response and I attach the usual rider--I'm not a geologist. Just a FANATIC! Green Pearles from Searles Lake by Tina Tuttle, Mojave Desert Minerals Newsletter, June 2002 The most common dream of rock and mineral enthusiasts is finding a bountiful cache of beautiful well-crystallized minerals. Better yet, an interesting variety of unusual, even rare minerals. The ?Mother Lode? of mineral localities. For some collectors, Searles Lake, in the Mojave Desert is pretty close to that rock Zion. Three field trips a year are offered in October, during which collectors can take as much as they can collect and carry in the time alloted. Two of the field trips feature collecting of two habits of hanksite and the associated mineral suite, the other the cranberry halite. Enter the Mud Zone. The shimmering white surface of Searles Lake is deceptive. Under 25 feet of salts and brine lies a strata of heavy, black mud. Normally this mud never sees the light of day. The product of thousands of years of sedimentation, its particular chemistry (unlike deeper muds) is perfect for the growth of the potassium sulfate mineral, Hanksite. Tons of these crystals, buried in the mud, are exposed as the mine operators blast down to this layer and scoop up dump trucks full of the black mud to spread it over the surface for the prospecting pleasure of attending collectors. Although Hanksite is rare, supposedly occuring in one other place?Lake Katwe in Uganda, Africa--this unusual potassic sodium carbono sulfate is plentiful at Searles Lake. Accessory minerals in the mud layer and immediately above it include borax, trona, thenardite, and the rare sulfohalite and northupite. The mine?s operators, in cooperation with the local mineral and gem club, do much of the work by digging deep down to bring up the mud from 20 to 40 feet below the surface and spreading it on the surface for collectors. In this thick mud, are clusters of crystals and many single crystals ranging in size from a few inches to six or more inches for single crystals and football- to- torso-sized clusters. Collectors have two and one-half hours to rake thru the mud to find single crystals or mineral clusters that often include several other crystals. These water-soluble specimens may be cleaned in the large trough of native brine solution before being packed away. Field Trip to Blow Hole. The second field trip back out to the salt flat after lunch is a refreshing change from the mud zone, as minerals are piped up in a large vacuum tube from the brine layer in the upper salt and sprayed out onto the lakes surface for eager collectors to gather up like coins at a casino. Clean, lighter colored hanksite crystals in smaller sizes are found here along with small borax, halite, thenardite and trona, ready to bag. For the discerning collectors, small clusters of thenardite, borax, and the much rarer sulfohalite and northupite may be found laying in the spray?s floatsam. Hanksite Habits. The hanksite crystals differ in size and shape. The hanksite from the mud layer tends to be darker with internal impurities from the mud. The crystals are very large, often in clusters, and with terminal pinacoids (flat ends). At the blow hole, where hanksites and other minerals are sucked up from a liquid brine above the mud layer, the crystals more often have prismatic terminations (pointy ends), are smaller, a pale buff, yellow, or light greenish-yellow in color. Cleaning, Preserving & Conserving Hanksite Challenges to collection: Hanksite?s particular chemical structure presents collectors with a few challenges. Many evaporites pose problems of stability, cleaning and preservation because of their water solubility. Hanksite, like kernite, borax and trona, is water soluble, and is also water absorbing when exposed to the air. Hanksite, when removed from stable conditions in the brine, will absorb moisture from the air, and that ?dew? will initiate dissolution of the specimen. The structure of Hanksite is somewhat unusual?it contains both carbonate and sulfate ion groups, or radicals. Since the sulfate radical (SO4) is most abundant, it is classified with other sulfate minerals. Like many sodium sulfates it soft and of light density. The sodium sulfate brine initially precipitates the carbonate mineral, Trona. As the carbonate in the brine is removed by precipitation of trona, the brine becomes sulfate rich, and precipitates the sodium sulfate Aphthitalite (formerly Glaserite). Continued crystallization lowers the percentages of sodium and the sulfate radical, and allows the potassic sodium sulfate, with a small percent of the carbonate radical, producing the carbono- sulfate Hanksite.Note that because of the different size and combination of elements and radicals, none of the minerals have the same crystal structure. Collectors must immediately clean their muddy specimens in saturated brine from the lake to prevent the mud from drying on the crystal. The very chemicals in the mud which created the perfect environment for this mineral to grow will adhere in the atmosphere to the crystal?s surface making later removal difficult. If not removed while the specimen is moist, the hanksite-rich mud will crystallize to the surface and harden like cement. Later attempts at cleaning will yield less satisfactory results as etching and pitting may occur (see cleaning and preserving hanksite.) In addition, fresh water will damage the crystal, restricting cleaning to how much brine the collector can carry out or make at home (see brine recipe). Hanksites vulnerabilities. Every rose has its thorn and hanksite?s plenty at this locality is mitigated by its vulnerabilities. Despite its fairly sturdy appearance, hanksite is water soluble and does not respond well to temperature or humidity changes. Humidity allows water molecules from the air to be absorbed and a crust of trona and apthitalite to form. Temperature changes are also deleterious; extreme cold will cause fine cracking, or crazing under the surface and marring its beauty. Ideal conservation conditions include airtight containers or display conditions avoiding humidity, surface treatments to the mineral surface (i.e. acrylic spray, mineral oil) or airless ziplock bags for long term storage. Despite these tempermental challenges, collectors flock to Searles Lake for the chance to collect these minerals at may be one of the largest annual rock collecting events in the country. The lure of the beautiful pearls from Searles outweighs the challenges for many. Like other saline minerals, hanksite presents some challenges in treatment and preservation. But the beauty and size of the hanksite specimens make preservation worthwhile for many. Untreated hanksite crystals will grow crusts on the crystal?s surface as water is drawn to the crystal from the air. The speed of this process is partly a feature of humidity. Methods of preservation vary based on storage environment. Bob Reynolds, former curator of the San Bernardino County Museum reported that Hanksite crystals on display did not develop crusts since hot lights drove the humidity away from the specimen. Humid environments have immediate impacts on hanksite, forming a thick powdery crust and eventually a hard scaley yellowish crust. The two most common remedies for this include mineral oil coating, and acrylic spray. The late borate expert and collecting maesro Jim Minette advocated acrylic spray, using it on many borate and evaporite minerals. The sprays have improved over the years, and present less yellowing of the specimen. Jenny Rohl, whose specimens grace the mineral collections of several museums in southern California, is also an advocate of archival-quality spray. Borate dealer, David Eyre, owner of one of the oldest rock shops in the Mojave, Desert Discoveries in Boron, California, recounted a surprising tale of a mineral time capsule he discovered a few years ago. While cleaning a corner of his vintage WWII quonset hut, he found an box left there in 1981. Inside were perfectly preserved, clear hanksite crystals in a large glass container?covered in light motor oil! Collectors have used coatings of light anhydrous oils on the surface of specimens to preserve hanksite specimens for years, but this was unexpected proof of the effectiveness of the old technique. John Sinkankas, author of the popular ?Gemstone & Mineral Data Book?, recommended storing hanksite ?in a tightly sealed jar or other container to which light oil or other anhydrous fluid is added.? Storing minerals in a vat of oil to preserve it isn?t any collector?s idea of desireable. But a light coating of mineral oil (including baby oil) may not be sufficient to prevent crusting in very humid environments. Sealing the specimen in a ziplock baggie for non-exhibit specimens is how Dr. Alan Wilkins, president of the southern California Micro-minerology society preserves his specimens for years. For display specimens he and other collectors recommend spraying with acrylic. The author has found that large, seamless acrylic boxes make attractive display cases and serve to seal the specimens from the elements. Axel Emmermann of the Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen, however, cautions collectors interested in the fluorescent properties that the acrylic spray or mineral oil may obscure the fluorescent aspects. CLEANING & CARE Dealing with white crusts: rewet with brine (or heavy salt water), dry immediately with soft cloth or paper towel, soak in mineral oil, protect from excessively dry air. Light coatings will not protect it very long ?they will still turn white in humid air in time. If they whiten again, wipe crust thoroughly and spray with acrylic spray. Cleaning after dry: the chemical nature of the mud at Searles Lake presents true challenges for proper cleaning, especially after the mud is dry. Paul Malone, an engineer and collector from L.A., put it rather aptly ?for every $10 specimen, there is $50 of labor!?. Experienced collectors like Paul Malone and Jenny Rohl recommend that freshly collected specimens that cannot be cleaned on the spot be wrapped as airtight as possible in plastic or bags and kept damp until cleaning can be finished. If you didn?t buy or bring home as much brine as you would have liked, make your brine at home with ruined specimens, and additions of table salt or halite left over from Searles lake. See brine recipe for more information. Do not soak your specimens in the brine for long periods of time. If you have a very dense solution of the pure brine left from the lake, then you may safely soak the specimans for 10 minutes or so at room temp (75-85 degrees F.) to loosen the mud and deposits. The longer you leave a crystal in the brine, the greater the surface pitting and rounding of crystals faces. Some specimens will also become cloudy, and micro-cracks will become visible. Cleaning materals: Hanksite has a hardness of 3 to 3.5. It can be safely cleaned with plastic dish scrubbers and tooth brushes. Wooden popsickle sticks and toothpicks are very helpful for scraping mud and large flat surfaces. Break them in half and they become invaluable in scraping in corners and hard to reach areas. Care must be taken not to damage the delicate bladed trona and borax crystals. Both will be easily broken, scratched or scored by scrubbing. Author?s Note: A surplus of uncleaned mud hanksites made it back to the midwest after a recent relocation. Checking their condition in the sticky (90%+) humidity it was discovered that the mud brushed off easily, loosened by the humidity, requiring only light scrubbing. While the smaller brine hanksites from the previous years collection could be wiped clean of their early white crusting with little appreciable damage, the larger mud hanksites did suffer a small degree of etching and crazing upon cleaning (presumably from leaving the mud on too long). The humidity process was acccelerated by placing specimens in a large ziplock with an open container of salt water for three hours. This method of loosening the mud was more successful than soaking directly in brine which causes greater degredation to the crystal. Coating crystals in mineral (or baby) oil had a very temporary effect?with crusting deterred only by acrylic spray or airtight container (ziplock or acrylic box). Do-IT-Yourself Brine: If you don't have enough brine to clean the minerals, make your own by dissolving damaged specimens. To melt specimens more quickly, place hanksite in equal volume of salt water and heat gently. Remove from flame and let sit a few hours. Hanksite should be dissolved. Caution: Do Not soak crystals to be cleaned in hot solution as this temperature change will damage your specimens. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Jan 30 20:02:58 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Jan 30 20:01:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included In-Reply-To: <003201c62617$1676de30$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> References: <003201c62617$1676de30$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <43DEE172.4010504@verizon.net> Tommy Armstrong wrote: > That's the thing--I know he knows how to appreciate good scotch (or was it > bourbon) and fine mineral speciemens--I am at a complete loss as to why does > not appreciate GK. Its just a mystery. Oh holy cow--I guess I'd better not start my own radio show with tongue-in-cheek humor. Really, I have nothing against the guy, but I try to find all the news & commentary shows I can because that's my only link to the outside world--no time for newspapers and I don't get TV and hardly any radio reception. Pity me. In fact yesterday I listed to his whole show because BBC didn't have anything good on. However when I listen to him it seems like I picture everything in black & white. His presentation is rather anachronistic from my point of view. List members not in the U.S. must wonder who and what we're talking about. Back on-topic for me! So did you Garrison Keillor fans read the NPR story???? Don From ROCKCURRIER at cs.com Mon Jan 30 20:03:13 2006 From: ROCKCURRIER at cs.com (ROCKCURRIER@cs.com) Date: Mon Jan 30 20:03:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Charoite locality Message-ID: <0893A664.47C98DB5.3AEB17FB@cs.com> The Charoite locality is the Murin Massif in Siberia. Part of it is in the Yakutia Oblast and Part in the Baikal Oblast. To the best of my knowledge it has never been found in the Kola Peninsula. Rock Currier From kahako at verizon.net Mon Jan 30 20:04:05 2006 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jan 30 20:04:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smell of moondust Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060130175057.037f7ed8@incoming.verizon.net> Hi List, The following URL is really interesting. Who'd have thought that moondust would smell like gunpowder? http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/30jan_smellofmoondust.htm?list762633 Aloha, Kitty --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Jan 30 21:35:13 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Jan 30 21:33:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hanksite article--how to clean and preserve In-Reply-To: <20060131034847.96783.qmail@web60812.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060131034847.96783.qmail@web60812.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43DEF711.6070107@verizon.net> tango juli wrote: > In response to the question about hanksite, I append an article I wrote for a newsletter a couple years back Beautifully done. People certainly don't need to add the caveat, "I'm not a geologist." There are a lot of geologists who could not have written that. One comment, though, because I keep seeing this topic: acrylic spray. Treatments to hanksite only delay, not stop, the decay. A friend of mine acquired an old collection, and I got to go through some of the old flats. One piece was a hanksite crystal coated with acrylic. Or, it had been. What was left was a thin acrylic shell, collapsed, like a shed snakeskin; and a lot of white puffy powder. Best, Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Jan 30 21:42:16 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Jan 30 21:40:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon stories? Message-ID: <43DEF8B8.4090502@verizon.net> Hi all, Hasn't Tuscon started? Or, at least, the proto-shows and pre-shows? Usually around this time of year we start hearing Tuscon stories. Don From tfa at brickengraver.com Mon Jan 30 21:54:59 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon Jan 30 21:54:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon stories? In-Reply-To: <43DEF8B8.4090502@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001101c6262a$df8a9100$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> http://www.mineralshows.com/tucson2006/specials.shtml John always has some pretty good write ups. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 12:42 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon stories? Hi all, Hasn't Tuscon started? Or, at least, the proto-shows and pre-shows? Usually around this time of year we start hearing Tuscon stories. Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From tfa at brickengraver.com Mon Jan 30 21:57:40 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Mon Jan 30 21:57:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon stories? In-Reply-To: <43DEF8B8.4090502@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001201c6262b$3f150830$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Also http://www.rockhounds.com/tucsonshow/reports/tucson_index.shtml -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 12:42 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon stories? Hi all, Hasn't Tuscon started? Or, at least, the proto-shows and pre-shows? Usually around this time of year we start hearing Tuscon stories. Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jan 30 22:59:19 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jan 30 22:59:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hanksite article--how to clean and preserve Message-ID: <013120060659.27918.43DF0AC1000D7E2F00006D0E216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> tj, I wanted to add my own appreciation, for what an excellent article that was that you wrote about Searles Lake. Thanks a lot for posting it to the group! Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from tango juli : -------------- > In response to the question about hanksite, I append an article I wrote for a > newsletter a couple years back when I went thru my hanksite obsession. Hanksite, > ironically, is what got me on this list--searching for info on how to fix the > white crust! This article discusses general properties, cleaning and preserving. > It isn't quite as technical as Pete's response and I attach the usual rider--I'm > not a geologist. Just a FANATIC! Green Pearles from Searles Lake by Tina > Tuttle, Mojave Desert Minerals Newsletter, June 2002 The most common dream of > rock and mineral enthusiasts is finding a bountiful cache of beautiful > well-crystallized minerals. Better yet, an interesting variety of unusual, even > rare minerals. The “Mother Lode” of mineral localities. > For some collectors, Searles Lake, in the Mojave Desert is pretty close to > that rock Zion. Three field trips a year are offered in October, during which > collectors can take as much as they can collect and carry in the time alloted. > Two of the field trips feature collecting of two habits of hanksite and the > associated mineral suite, the other the cranberry halite. > Enter the Mud Zone. The shimmering white surface of Searles Lake is deceptive. > Under 25 feet of salts and brine lies a strata of heavy, black mud. Normally > this mud never sees the light of day. The product of thousands of years of > sedimentation, its particular chemistry (unlike deeper muds) is perfect for the > growth of the potassium sulfate mineral, Hanksite. Tons of these crystals, > buried in the mud, are exposed as the mine operators blast down to this layer > and scoop up dump trucks full of the black mud to spread it over the surface for > the prospecting pleasure of attending collectors. > Although Hanksite is rare, supposedly occuring in one other place—Lake Katwe > in Uganda, Africa--this unusual potassic sodium carbono sulfate is plentiful at > Searles Lake. Accessory minerals in the mud layer and immediately above it > include borax, trona, thenardite, and the rare sulfohalite and northupite. > The mine’s operators, in cooperation with the local mineral and gem club, do > much of the work by digging deep down to bring up the mud from 20 to 40 feet > below the surface and spreading it on the surface for collectors. In this thick > mud, are clusters of crystals and many single crystals ranging in size from a > few inches to six or more inches for single crystals and football- to- > torso-sized clusters. > Collectors have two and one-half hours to rake thru the mud to find single > crystals or mineral clusters that often include several other crystals. These > water-soluble specimens may be cleaned in the large trough of native brine > solution before being packed away. > Field Trip to Blow Hole. The second field trip back out to the salt flat after > lunch is a refreshing change from the mud zone, as minerals are piped up in a > large vacuum tube from the brine layer in the upper salt and sprayed out onto > the lakes surface for eager collectors to gather up like coins at a casino. > Clean, lighter colored hanksite crystals in smaller sizes are found here along > with small borax, halite, thenardite and trona, ready to bag. For the > discerning collectors, small clusters of thenardite, borax, and the much rarer > sulfohalite and northupite may be found laying in the spray’s floatsam. > Hanksite Habits. The hanksite crystals differ in size and shape. The hanksite > from the mud layer tends to be darker with internal impurities from the mud. > The crystals are very large, often in clusters, and with terminal pinacoids > (flat ends). At the blow hole, where hanksites and other minerals are sucked up > from a liquid brine above the mud layer, the crystals more often have prismatic > terminations (pointy ends), are smaller, a pale buff, yellow, or light > greenish-yellow in color. > Cleaning, Preserving & Conserving Hanksite > Challenges to collection: Hanksite’s particular chemical structure presents > collectors with a few challenges. Many evaporites pose problems of stability, > cleaning and preservation because of their water solubility. Hanksite, like > kernite, borax and trona, is water soluble, and is also water absorbing when > exposed to the air. Hanksite, when removed from stable conditions in the brine, > will absorb moisture from the air, and that “dew” will initiate dissolution of > the specimen. > The structure of Hanksite is somewhat unusual—it contains both carbonate and > sulfate ion groups, or radicals. Since the sulfate radical (SO4) is most > abundant, it is classified with other sulfate minerals. Like many sodium > sulfates it soft and of light density. > The sodium sulfate brine initially precipitates the carbonate mineral, Trona. > As the carbonate in the brine is removed by precipitation of trona, the brine > becomes sulfate rich, and precipitates the sodium sulfate Aphthitalite (formerly > Glaserite). Continued crystallization lowers the percentages of sodium and the > sulfate radical, and allows the potassic sodium sulfate, with a small percent of > the carbonate radical, producing the carbono- sulfate Hanksite.Note that > because of the different size and combination of elements and radicals, none of > the minerals have the same crystal structure. > Collectors must immediately clean their muddy specimens in saturated brine > from the lake to prevent the mud from drying on the crystal. The very chemicals > in the mud which created the perfect environment for this mineral to grow will > adhere in the atmosphere to the crystal’s surface making later removal > difficult. If not removed while the specimen is moist, the hanksite-rich mud > will crystallize to the surface and harden like cement. Later attempts at > cleaning will yield less satisfactory results as etching and pitting may occur > (see cleaning and preserving hanksite.) In addition, fresh water will damage the > crystal, restricting cleaning to how much brine the collector can carry out or > make at home (see brine recipe). > Hanksites vulnerabilities. Every rose has its thorn and hanksite’s plenty at > this locality is mitigated by its vulnerabilities. Despite its fairly sturdy > appearance, hanksite is water soluble and does not respond well to temperature > or humidity changes. Humidity allows water molecules from the air to be absorbed > and a crust of trona and apthitalite to form. > Temperature changes are also deleterious; extreme cold will cause fine > cracking, or crazing under the surface and marring its beauty. Ideal > conservation conditions include airtight containers or display conditions > avoiding humidity, surface treatments to the mineral surface (i.e. acrylic > spray, mineral oil) or airless ziplock bags for long term storage. > Despite these tempermental challenges, collectors flock to Searles Lake for > the chance to collect these minerals at may be one of the largest annual rock > collecting events in the country. The lure of the beautiful pearls from Searles > outweighs the challenges for many. > > Like other saline minerals, hanksite presents some challenges in treatment and > preservation. But the beauty and size of the hanksite specimens make > preservation worthwhile for many. Untreated hanksite crystals will grow crusts > on the crystal’s surface as water is drawn to the crystal from the air. The > speed of this process is partly a feature of humidity. Methods of preservation > vary based on storage environment. Bob Reynolds, former curator of the San > Bernardino County Museum reported that Hanksite crystals on display did not > develop crusts since hot lights drove the humidity away from the specimen. Humid > environments have immediate impacts on hanksite, forming a thick powdery crust > and eventually a hard scaley yellowish crust. The two most common remedies for > this include mineral oil coating, and acrylic spray. > The late borate expert and collecting maesro Jim Minette advocated acrylic > spray, using it on many borate and evaporite minerals. The sprays have improved > over the years, and present less yellowing of the specimen. Jenny Rohl, whose > specimens grace the mineral collections of several museums in southern > California, is also an advocate of archival-quality spray. > Borate dealer, David Eyre, owner of one of the oldest rock shops in the > Mojave, Desert Discoveries in Boron, California, recounted a surprising tale of > a mineral time capsule he discovered a few years ago. While cleaning a corner of > his vintage WWII quonset hut, he found an box left there in 1981. Inside were > perfectly preserved, clear hanksite crystals in a large glass container—covered > in light motor oil! > Collectors have used coatings of light anhydrous oils on the surface of > specimens to preserve hanksite specimens for years, but this was unexpected > proof of the effectiveness of the old technique. John Sinkankas, author of the > popular “Gemstone & Mineral Data Book”, recommended storing hanksite “in a > tightly sealed jar or other container to which light oil or other anhydrous > fluid is added.” > Storing minerals in a vat of oil to preserve it isn’t any collector’s idea of > desireable. But a light coating of mineral oil (including baby oil) may not be > sufficient to prevent crusting in very humid environments. Sealing the specimen > in a ziplock baggie for non-exhibit specimens is how Dr. Alan Wilkins, president > of the southern California Micro-minerology society preserves his specimens for > years. For display specimens he and other collectors recommend spraying with > acrylic. The author has found that large, seamless acrylic boxes make attractive > display cases and serve to seal the specimens from the elements. > Axel Emmermann of the Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen, however, cautions > collectors interested in the fluorescent properties that the acrylic spray or > mineral oil may obscure the fluorescent aspects. > CLEANING & CARE > Dealing with white crusts: rewet with brine (or heavy salt water), dry > immediately with soft cloth or paper towel, soak in mineral oil, protect from > excessively dry air. Light coatings will not protect it very long –they will > still turn white in humid air in time. If they whiten again, wipe crust > thoroughly and spray with acrylic spray. > Cleaning after dry: the chemical nature of the mud at Searles Lake presents > true challenges for proper cleaning, especially after the mud is dry. Paul > Malone, an engineer and collector from L.A., put it rather aptly “for every $10 > specimen, there is $50 of labor!”. Experienced collectors like Paul Malone and > Jenny Rohl recommend that freshly collected specimens that cannot be cleaned on > the spot be wrapped as airtight as possible in plastic or bags and kept damp > until cleaning can be finished. If you didn’t buy or bring home as much brine as > you would have liked, make your brine at home with ruined specimens, and > additions of table salt or halite left over from Searles lake. See brine recipe > for more information. > Do not soak your specimens in the brine for long periods of time. If you have > a very dense solution of the pure brine left from the lake, then you may safely > soak the specimans for 10 minutes or so at room temp (75-85 degrees F.) to > loosen the mud and deposits. The longer you leave a crystal in the brine, the > greater the surface pitting and rounding of crystals faces. Some specimens will > also become cloudy, and micro-cracks will become visible. > Cleaning materals: Hanksite has a hardness of 3 to 3.5. It can be safely > cleaned with plastic dish scrubbers and tooth brushes. Wooden popsickle sticks > and toothpicks are very helpful for scraping mud and large flat surfaces. Break > them in half and they become invaluable in scraping in corners and hard to reach > areas. Care must be taken not to damage the delicate bladed trona and borax > crystals. Both will be easily broken, scratched or scored by scrubbing. > Author’s Note: A surplus of uncleaned mud hanksites made it back to the > midwest after a recent relocation. Checking their condition in the sticky (90%+) > humidity it was discovered that the mud brushed off easily, loosened by the > humidity, requiring only light scrubbing. While the smaller brine hanksites from > the previous years collection could be wiped clean of their early white crusting > with little appreciable damage, the larger mud hanksites did suffer a small > degree of etching and crazing upon cleaning (presumably from leaving the mud on > too long). The humidity process was acccelerated by placing specimens in a large > ziplock with an open container of salt water for three hours. This method of > loosening the mud was more successful than soaking directly in brine which > causes greater degredation to the crystal. Coating crystals in mineral (or baby) > oil had a very temporary effect—with crusting deterred only by acrylic spray or > airtight container (ziplock or acrylic box). > Do-IT-Yourself Brine: If you don't have enough brine to clean the minerals, > make your own by dissolving damaged specimens. > To melt specimens more quickly, place hanksite in equal volume of salt water > and heat gently. Remove from flame and let sit a few hours. Hanksite should be > dissolved. Caution: Do Not soak crystals to be cleaned in hot solution as this > temperature change will damage your specimens. > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Tue Jan 31 03:13:21 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Tue Jan 31 03:13:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon stories? References: <43DEF8B8.4090502@verizon.net> Message-ID: <004e01c62657$58c0abf0$6400a8c0@hppav> Tucson has started. I am headed there today. Gene Hartstein. ...Try Trinity Minerals for a show report. It is the only site I found this year with any reports on it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 12:42 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon stories? > > Hi all, > > Hasn't Tuscon started? Or, at least, the proto-shows and pre-shows? > Usually around this time of year we start hearing Tuscon stories. > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From gene at fossilnut.com Tue Jan 31 03:23:11 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Tue Jan 31 03:23:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon stories? References: <001201c6262b$3f150830$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <005d01c62658$b8129180$6400a8c0@hppav> OK I stand corrected before I get a load of e-mails. It looks like Bob's Rock Shop has a report after all. I'm thrilled as his reports cover a wide range of things to see. Thanks for the link. I'd given up trying Bob's Rock Shop. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tommy Armstrong" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 12:57 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Tuscon stories? > Also > > http://www.rockhounds.com/tucsonshow/reports/tucson_index.shtml > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH > Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 12:42 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon stories? > > > Hi all, > > Hasn't Tuscon started? Or, at least, the proto-shows and pre-shows? > Usually around this time of year we start hearing Tuscon stories. > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From Jg81638 at aol.com Tue Jan 31 06:02:38 2006 From: Jg81638 at aol.com (Jg81638@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 31 06:02:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smell of moondust Message-ID: Hi Kitty I remember one of the Apollo 11 guys making that comment after their EVA at Tranquillity Base, don't recall whether it was Armstrong or Aldrin however and I did have a flash at the time wondering where he remembered the smell from - maybe he played around after Chem classes like I and my school buddies did when we were young and foolish! Jim Groves --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Tue Jan 31 06:40:22 2006 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Tue Jan 31 06:39:40 2006 Subject: Preserving Hanksite Was >> RE: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair In-Reply-To: <64387C57-920A-11DA-B327-000A95773806@mindspring.com> Message-ID: <200601311439.k0VEdZIj007799@cti41.citenet.net> Wonder how sealing a sample in glass and pulling a vacuum LOL find an old Tube from a TV and replace the elements with a small stand and the glass with -----glass from a large test-tube, seal and pull a good Vacuum and seal,. Should preserve it and make a different display base..... Know a good Laboratory glassworker? Kay ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carol said>> Borax is the one that dehydrates and alters to tincalconite, taking the shape of the borax crystals. (I don't know which, if any, of the other Trona materials change with dehydration.) Hanksite is best preserved by being sealed in an airtight container in a relatively dry environment to begin with. I have a couple of small hanksite specimens from Trona, California, that are about 9 years old and show almost no change because the plastic bags they are in have never been opened, and the baggies are stored in a sealed plastic box. Others hanksites that I collected and kept on an open tray did well for a number of years because of the low humidity where I lived, until they melted under a leak from a heavy rainfall. C From BNMJEFF at aol.com Tue Jan 31 07:05:40 2006 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 31 07:05:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smell of moondust Message-ID: <2a5.4b51aac.3110d6c4@aol.com> At the time most of the astronauts were military, so they would be very familiar with the gunpowder smell...although, I think we all played around after Chem class!! Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jan 31 08:00:55 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jan 31 08:01:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smell of moondust In-Reply-To: <2a5.4b51aac.3110d6c4@aol.com> Message-ID: Hi rockhounders, maybe the smell can be explained by the extreme fine nature of the lunar dust in combination with electrostatic charge. Our sense of smell is dependent on electrostatic charge. Free radicals and very easily ionized compounds react with the endings of the olfactory nerve (not the "old factory" although that may stink too ;-))) I think (I'm not a doctor) that, for example, we do not smell ozone... we smell the charge transfer that marks the "end" of an ozone molecule that hits our olfactory sense and reverts to odorless oxygen upon contact. Any charged particle that is fine enough to enter the olfactory cavity would have a smell to it, I presume? There is mention of sunlight charging the lunar dust strongly enough to cause it to levitate and form a fine mist that marks the day/night zone. Residual electrostatic charge might be the smelly agent ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens BNMJEFF@aol.com Verzonden: dinsdag 31 januari 2006 16:06 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Smell of moondust At the time most of the astronauts were military, so they would be very familiar with the gunpowder smell...although, I think we all played around after Chem class!! Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From pttrefrn at triwest.net Tue Jan 31 09:45:23 2006 From: pttrefrn at triwest.net (Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron) Date: Tue Jan 31 09:41:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included References: <001801c625fe$a421fe90$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> <000b01c62602$e4b22cb0$9f96b2d1@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <003301c6268e$1cef63a0$6400a8c0@triwest.net> However, guys, your average Minnesotan is as patterned and contradictory as any agate, and as unprecedentledly liberal in his/her own conservative way. Agate tell ya, he tells it like it really is, and that's a rare find. Pat PE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erich Kern" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included > > > Tommy, before reading your post I was going to put in my two cents on loving > Garrison Keillor's folksy wit and wisdom and at the same time having a wee bit of > raging contempt for his politics. I grew up in a small town full of Lutherans the > way Keillor did, and his schtick speaks to my earliest small town memories. > > But, you're right, this forum shouldn't be about politics or religion. > > Erich Kern > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tommy Armstrong" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:38 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included > > > We are obviously talking about a different person--the Keillor to whom I am > referring is about as far away from anything Stalin as anyone alive. Maybe a > bit too liberal for me in a few areas--and a bit too conservative for me in > others. > > ????????? > > But we do not need to get reprimanded for talking about politics and > religion on the list so I will cease. > > Tommy Armstrong > PO Box 484 > Lillington, NC 27546 > http://www.brickengraver.com > > "If you're a big enough fool to climb a tree and like a cat refuse to come > down, then someone who loves you has to make as big a fool of himself to > rescue you." > W Percy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 7:09 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included > > Yeah he might have been funny 20 years ago before he entered politics from > the Josep Stalin wing. > > BK > > On 1/30/06, Tommy Armstrong wrote: > > > > Ok Don--them ARE fighting words. That weird guy as you call him is > > America's preeminent humorist. Ever tasteful, ever insightful, and > > always funny--as well as having great music and musicians on his show. > > I even went out and bought one of the first stereo video tape > > recorders, not to record TV, but Garrison Keillor. Cost me $750 and > > still have tapes from 20 years ago. > > > > You need to give him another chance, perhaps with a good bottle of wine. > > > > Tommy Armstrong > > PO Box 484 > > Lillington, NC 27546 > > http://www.brickengraver.com > > > > ...with the method of science one beholds what is generally true about > > individuals, but art beholds what is uniquely true. > > > > Walker Percy > > Signposts in a Strange Land > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH > > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 5:32 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > So we're in mineralogy class today, and my professor says "did anyone > > hear the story about minerals on NPR this weekend?" (I listen to BCC > > on the weekends, because NPR has that weird Lake Woebegon dude and I > > can't handle it). But sure enough, on their website, they had the story > archived: > > > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5175452 > > > > It happens that there is fair amount of material on the Sterling Hill > > Mining Museum and some fluorescent minerals, but there is also > > information on the Smithsonian, the Tuscon show, and the discovery of > > pezzottaite. Most impressive are the correct details describing rocks > > vs. minerals and how the IMA functions. > > > > Have fun, > > Don > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jan 31 11:35:43 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jan 31 11:35:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NPR news link, hardly at all about Tucson... Message-ID: <013120061935.3792.43DFBC0E0006234900000ED0216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> (I apologize for staying/straying quite off topic here, but, hey, I'm usually pretty good about it...) The latest post about this non-topic made me think, image what the world of droll radio comedy commentary storytelling might be like, if Garrison Keillor had not lived in MN, but had been born and brought up in the Deep South? Good heavens, it boggles the mind, what would he have turned into? I'm thinking of a combination between him and that other comedy gent who was discussed in this List a while earlier. Would we have "Bayou Home Companion", perhaps? Can anyone imagine G.K. with a southern drawl? It's scary, to say the least. Rockhounds relevancy: At Sioux Falls, S.D., one finds neat outcrops of massive red Sioux Quartzite (Precambrian) at the Falls right along the Lower Big Sioux River (I think I got that all right), and central Minnesota is real good granite quarrying country, and, I believe there's nothing like that in Louisiana! : ) Pete -------------- Original message from "Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron" : -------------- > However, guys, your average Minnesotan is as patterned and contradictory as > any agate, and as unprecedentledly liberal in his/her own conservative way. > Agate tell ya, he tells it like it really is, and that's a rare find. Pat > PE > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Erich Kern" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tfa at brickengraver.com Tue Jan 31 12:11:41 2006 From: tfa at brickengraver.com (Tommy Armstrong) Date: Tue Jan 31 12:11:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NPR news link, hardly at all about Tucson... In-Reply-To: <013120061935.3792.43DFBC0E0006234900000ED0216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <000001c626a2$8d7d14a0$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Interesting comment--but I as a Southerner think that GK is very much of the Southern ilk --that is in vein of Walker Percy, Clyde Edgerton, and many of the other great Southern story tellers. And he has a kind of fatalistic outlook that most Southerners have. Probably stems from the fact that like Minnesota, the South was/is predominantly rural and the the work was/is hard (and lonely). He obviously has a comfort level with a great deal of Southern music--country, bluegrass, jazz, and folk as it predominates his show. "Rockhound Rlevancy" "Perhaps the first miners and mineral collectors of the state (NC) were the Indians who mined mica in western North Carolina and traded it with the surrounding tribes. Such old mine workings were recognized by the early settlers, who mistakenly thought the Indians had been mining silver. Two mines which contained ancient workings are the Baird mine in Macon County and the Sink Hold mine in Mitchell County. Galena, pyrite, and quartz crystals are sometimes found in Indian burials indicating that they prized and collected certain minerals." Mineral Localities of North Carolina 1958 by James F. Conley -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 2:36 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NPR news link, hardly at all about Tucson... (I apologize for staying/straying quite off topic here, but, hey, I'm usually pretty good about it...) The latest post about this non-topic made me think, image what the world of droll radio comedy commentary storytelling might be like, if Garrison Keillor had not lived in MN, but had been born and brought up in the Deep South? Good heavens, it boggles the mind, what would he have turned into? I'm thinking of a combination between him and that other comedy gent who was discussed in this List a while earlier. Would we have "Bayou Home Companion", perhaps? Can anyone imagine G.K. with a southern drawl? It's scary, to say the least. Rockhounds relevancy: At Sioux Falls, S.D., one finds neat outcrops of massive red Sioux Quartzite (Precambrian) at the Falls right along the Lower Big Sioux River (I think I got that all right), and central Minnesota is real good granite quarrying country, and, I believe there's nothing like that in Louisiana! : ) Pete -------------- Original message from "Ronald and Patricia Potter-Efron" : -------------- > However, guys, your average Minnesotan is as patterned and > contradictory as any agate, and as unprecedentledly liberal in his/her own conservative way. > Agate tell ya, he tells it like it really is, and that's a rare find. > Pat PE > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Erich Kern" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link > included > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Jan 31 12:20:54 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Tue Jan 31 12:23:29 2006 Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] NPR news link, hardly at all about Tucson... References: <000001c626a2$8d7d14a0$6801a8c0@compaqupstairs> Message-ID: <012d01c626a3$da40c380$0200a8c0@warren> OK, ok, I *love* Prairie Home Companion...but I think we've talked about it enough, even with your clever "Rockhound Relevance" additions. Thanks! Julie From kahako at verizon.net Tue Jan 31 15:27:22 2006 From: kahako at verizon.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jan 31 15:27:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smell of moondust In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060131132335.03886d48@incoming.verizon.net> Actually the article says that those who have smelled it all said it smelled like expended gun powder, and that most of the astronauts have had experience with guns, so they would know from where they speak. I expect gunpowder in one form or another must have been in a chem class or even a chemistry kit like we had when we were kids. Aloha, Kitty At 04:02 AM 1/31/2006, you wrote: >Hi Kitty I remember one of the Apollo 11 guys making that comment after >their EVA at Tranquillity Base, don't recall whether it was Armstrong or >Aldrin however and I did have a flash at the time wondering where he >remembered >the smell from - maybe he played around after Chem classes like I and my >school buddies did when we were young and foolish! > Jim Groves From SMKELL45 at aol.com Tue Jan 31 15:57:20 2006 From: SMKELL45 at aol.com (SMKELL45@aol.com) Date: Tue Jan 31 15:57:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Francon Quarry Message-ID: <27c.4fbfb2b.31115360@aol.com> Found some interesting Carbonatite from the Francon Quarry. One piece had several Weloganites. These were surrounded by white mineralization with an acicular form. This white material fluoresced whitish in both the LW and SW. It also phosphoresced in the LW and SW. I'm leaning toward Strontianite both for the fluorescing response and because of the recorded association with Weloganite. Any other suggestion, or confirmation? smkell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jan 31 16:12:42 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jan 31 16:12:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] photography Message-ID: I know there is some interest in photography on the list and someone put up to a link on a photography list that I'm on which has info on jewelry photography and small object photography in general. http://www.tabletopstudio.com/documents/HowTo_page.htm BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Jan 31 20:35:55 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Jan 31 20:35:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mauna Kea snow (OT) In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060130172231.022ad358@incoming.verizon.net> Message-ID: Wild! And really COOL! There were patches of snow there in April '02 when Jeanette and i drove our Dodge Neon up to the top. It said 4-wheel drive only but we had no trouble at all. We had a much rougher ride to Pali Hali beach over the cane field roads...in search of some nice Puka shells and the barking sand! Glenn From: Kitty & Bill Heacox <kahako@verizon.net> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:39:00 -1000 >Since many rockhounds are interested in meteorology, perhaps you'd >like to know that there is a foot of snow in Mauna Kea. While it's >been snowing up there, it's been raining over the rest of the Big >Island for many days. Here in Hilo we got over 5 inches of rain two >days in a row last week (almost 27 cm. in 48 hours). This was the >first sunny day we've had in three weeks, and some brave---or >foolhardy---folks were skiing today, not an easy activity at nearly >14,000 ft (4205 metres) in altitude, with no ski facilities (like >tows). > >Aloha, Kitty > ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Download today's top songs at MSN Music from artists like U2, Eminem, & Kelly Clarkson ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Jan 31 21:00:36 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Jan 31 21:00:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tuscon, & mineralogy on NPR news! link included In-Reply-To: <43DEE172.4010504@verizon.net> Message-ID: Yup, as i said "Cool link!" Glenn From: DonH <donhalterman@verizon.net> So did you Garrison Keillor fans read the NPR story???? Don ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ Search, shop, and browse smarter using tabs with the MSN Search Toolbar-FREE! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Tue Jan 31 21:01:36 2006 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (Sandra B. Gee) Date: Tue Jan 31 21:01:40 2006 Subject: Preserving Hanksite Was >> RE: [Rockhounds] Use of Hanksite at science fair In-Reply-To: <200601311439.k0VEdZIj007799@cti41.citenet.net> Message-ID: <20060201050136.29897.qmail@web34209.mail.mud.yahoo.com> On that note, how about storing specimen in a perky box and then using that food vacuum sealer to seal the perky box in the plastic? During the Hurricane Rita scare, we stayed put and had fun vacuum sealing our important documents in the plastic.... Sandra Gee. --- Kay Davis wrote: > Wonder how sealing a sample in glass and pulling a > vacuum LOL find an old > Tube from a TV and replace the elements with a small > stand and the glass > with -----glass from a large test-tube, seal and > pull a good Vacuum and > seal,. Should preserve it and make a different > display base..... Know a good > Laboratory glassworker? > > Kay > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Carol said>> > > Borax is the one that dehydrates and alters to > tincalconite, taking the > shape of the borax crystals. (I don't know which, if > any, of the other Trona > materials change with dehydration.) > > Hanksite is best preserved by being sealed in an > airtight container in a > relatively dry environment to begin with. I have a > couple of small hanksite > specimens from Trona, California, that are about 9 > years old and show almost > no change because the plastic bags they are in have > never been opened, and > the baggies are stored in a sealed plastic box. > Others hanksites that I collected and kept on an > open tray did well for a > number of years because of the low humidity where I > lived, until they melted > under a leak from a heavy rainfall. > > C > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Jan 31 21:35:13 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Jan 31 21:35:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mini collecting trip and gunpowder Message-ID: I had occasion to travel to Clarke County Alabama for work today and when finished with that took a turn on the Salt Works Road near Jackson. I only had a few minutes to spare so limitied my search to a couple of spots I had previously visited. A fellow club member had gone to the area but not found anything of note. Peering out the window of my company Ford Ranger, I quickly spotted a thin vein of Alabama agate, got out and picked up a few very small pieces, mostly to give to my friend. I rolled along a bit more and spotted a clam shell cast on some limestone on the bank of the dirt road. I picked it up and there is also a spiral (conk?) shell protruding slightly. Can't wait to clean that out to reveal more! BTW, today was the final day of deer season so I wore my orange cap even in the edge of the road. The fossils got me excited and I walked a very short way along an old side road now washed with several 2-3 feet deep erosion runs in the red clay. Gravel, small bits of agate, broken limestone, and sandstone pieces were plentiful. So were deer tracks! I gave up the hunt due to quickly losing sunlight, but I will return to the site in the future. As for gunpowder smell, like most southern and rural men, I have hunted. Practiced with rifle, shotgun, and pistol. Also shot skeet. But they don't have much taste, and the only way to get 'em down is to grind 'em into powder and mix in your favorite drink. Heavy on the drink and very light on the skeet powder..... Glenn ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ MSN Premium brings together everything you need on the Internet in 1 place, including PC security! ------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From a.m.robbemond at hccnet.nl Tue Jan 31 21:57:34 2006 From: a.m.robbemond at hccnet.nl (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Robbemond?=) Date: Tue Jan 31 21:57:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Francon Quarry References: <27c.4fbfb2b.31115360@aol.com> Message-ID: <001c01c626f4$66a51b50$0200a8c0@Andre2> Could it be DRESSERITE or DAWSONITE? Regards, Andr? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 12:57 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Francon Quarry > Found some interesting Carbonatite from the Francon Quarry. One piece > had > several Weloganites. These were surrounded by white mineralization with > an > acicular form. This white material fluoresced whitish in both the LW > and SW. > It also phosphoresced in the LW and SW. I'm leaning toward Strontianite > both for the fluorescing response and because of the recorded > association with > Weloganite. Any other suggestion, or confirmation? smkell > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.25/246 - Release Date: 30-1-2006 > > From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Jan 31 23:04:02 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Jan 31 23:03:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] photography References: Message-ID: <001e01c626fd$af966bd0$c899b2d1@TheBlackAdder> BK, Many thanks for posting this link. The info on this site shows some techniques I haven't seen before, and opens up new possibilites in mineral photography. Erich Kern ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 4:12 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] photography I know there is some interest in photography on the list and someone put up to a link on a photography list that I'm on which has info on jewelry photography and small object photography in general. http://www.tabletopstudio.com/documents/HowTo_page.htm BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds