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In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 15:48:26 +0300, wrote: > >Visit http%3A%2F%2Fwww.com%2F > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >text/html (html body -- converted) >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html Perhaps we need a more stringent membership approval process. Some other lists have been having problems with this sort of thing. Some have gone to the painful process of requiring an email explaining the applicant's background and why they want to join. Weeds out spammers like this one, but a real PITA for the moderators. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Jul 1 10:20:34 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Jul 1 10:18:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] spam References: <113a3a8113b15f.113b15f113a3a8@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <44A6AE60.6466@Tomaszewski.net> The spammer has been unsubscribed. MICHAEL SCHMIDT wrote: > > no, don't wanna. > > you moderators out of town????? > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: glumor@faza.ru > Date: Saturday, July 1, 2006 6:49 am > Subject: [Rockhounds] Visit this sites! > > > > > Visit http%3A%2F%2Fwww.com%2F > > From tam2819 at cox.net Sat Jul 1 14:03:13 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Sat Jul 1 14:03:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] spam In-Reply-To: <44A6AE60.6466@Tomaszewski.net> References: <113a3a8113b15f.113b15f113a3a8@shaw.ca> <44A6AE60.6466@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Kreigh, Thank you. Fingers were tiring from sending all those messages to various spam reporting agencies. Terrie From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Jul 1 15:27:52 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Jul 1 16:32:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] spam References: <113a3a8113b15f.113b15f113a3a8@shaw.ca> <44A6AE60.6466@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001a01c69d5d$9f048230$0300a8c0@Notebook> Thanks Kreigh, And sorry about that group. We're not 24/7 here at ADMIN. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] spam > The spammer has been unsubscribed. > > > MICHAEL SCHMIDT wrote: >> >> no, don't wanna. >> >> you moderators out of town????? >> >> From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sun Jul 2 11:19:25 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sun Jul 2 11:19:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Glue-more - off topic Message-ID: <20060702181925.72556.qmail@web56311.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: I think our spammer did too much of his namesake: Glue-More is a fine way to dissolve brain cells. I hav a good friend who uwsed to be house mother for a group home for huffer kids who used various solvents to get "high". She tried to teach them how to work buttons and zippers and to use a toothbrush. Didn't work too well, 'cause you have to have brain cells to be trainable at all. Sad. Notice how poorly done Glumor's spam was, invalid addresses mostly, improving slowly towards the end...interesting. Hope he never learns enough to be good at it! Thanks, moderators, for bouncing them from the list! JR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Paintricks at aol.com Sun Jul 2 13:05:53 2006 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 2 13:05:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pikes peak questions...Anyone been there? Message-ID: <322.6fccd43.31d98121@aol.com> Hey guys, I live at the base of Pikes and was wondering if any of you have been there and where to look. I wanna hike to it from Manitou and have tried this last week but it is a big job getting to it. You aren't allowed to walk the COG railway so other routes are the only way. What kind of things are available there and what are the best areas to look. I like the unconventional places so I can get an unusual recovery. I know there is Amazonite and topaz there but I'm sure it has been picked over. What are some of the things any of you have recovered and what types of rock(host rock) to look for. What are the characteristics of the host rock? I live here in Manitou and also was wondering what to look for here in the surrounding hills? Would love the advice anyone may suggest. Thanks in advance, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Jul 2 16:19:45 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Jul 2 16:19:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp Message-ID: Floundering in darkness, and in light, this fellow has both eyes upward. Glenn From: horstwindisch@absamail.co.za Yes, apparently you can get left-handed and right-handed soles. As the swim very near the bottom of the ocean, the eye facing upwards is larger than the eye facing towards the bottom! The next time you order a sole in a restaurant, ask the waiter for a left-handed sole. See what his reaction is. Horst From: "Earl Verbeek" SHMM@sussexonline.com Ahhh, that Axel . . . can't wait for you to meet him. From: Axel Emmermann Philosophical thought: If a blind cat fluouresces in the dark, does itsee its shadow? Yes, but only on Tuesdays and if the fish is lefthanded. Axel _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com: where your online world comes together - with news, sports, weather, and much more. http://www.live.com/getstarted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jul 2 19:09:34 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jul 2 19:08:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Magnetite Sand Message-ID: <44A87C0F.6B4B@Tomaszewski.net> It was a beautiful day in West Michigan today and my girls wanted to go to the beach for a swim. Mid-afternoon we packed up a picnic supper and headed west to Lake Michigan, arriving at Tunnel Park, near Holland, MI, about a half hour later. Tunnel Park is named for the tunnel thru the large sand dune that blocks easy access to the beach from the park's playground, picnic area, and parking lots. Those so inclined can climb over the dune, or take the stairs to the observation deck at the crest of the dune, but most folks take the tunnel that is almost at beach level. The beach was not crowded, but there were a lot of families out for fun on the sand and in the water. Lots of kids, from infants to about 80; it is a great family park. My teenaged girls got their swim, and made a sand castle with my wife (complete with moat, walls, towers, and a citadel -- I was impressed with the detail). I sat down on the dry sand back from the water, pulled out my 1/2 inch cube super-magnet, and in a short time I had a baggie with over 100 ml of black sand. I only had to run the magnet thru about 10 square feet of sand and pick off whatever stuck. Lake Michigan beach sand is mostly fine quartz sand, with enough other stuff (feldspars?) to make it almost skin colored, but it is full of little black specs, which are mostly magnetite. Under a lens you can see many of the grains are nice crystals. I also picked up a couple 100 ml of plain sand in the baggie my supper sandwich came out of. Once we got home (stopping at an ice cream stand on the way) I found I had some nice small acrylic boxes on hand with neat interlocking bases. I filled them upside down with sand, black and white, snapped in the base, and sealed it with tape on two sides to make a secure display for sand. Labeled 'Magnetite', and 'Sand with Magnetite', specimens now sit on my display shelves. It may not have been your normal field trip, but minerals were collected, and fun was had by all. And if you read this far, and agree it was fun, you might be a sand collector. I only displayed about half of what I collected, so I've got some extra to trade. I'll split it evenly between any sand collectors that contact me, _*_OFF-List_*_, by the 4th of July, with their snail-mail address. All I ask is a similar quantity of sand from somewhere else in return for my package (that will have about twice as much plain sand as seperated magnetite); it will cost you postage one way. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jul 2 19:25:35 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jul 2 19:24:24 2006 Subject: OT: Flounders and Quartz {was: Re: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp} References: Message-ID: <44A87FD0.6546@Tomaszewski.net> But flounders and soles do come in left and right hand versions, which is part of how they are classified. See... http://www.gma.org/fogm/flounders_soles.htm Some minerals also crystalize in left and right handed versions, including quartz. See... http://rockhoundingar.com/quartz/rt.left/html And since it is a natural process for both fish and mineals to exhibit right and left handedness, maybe its not of-topic after all. Kreigh Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > Floundering in darkness, and in light, this fellow has both eyes upward. > Glenn > > From: horstwindisch@absamail.co.za Yes, apparently you can get left-handed and right-handed soles. As the swim very near the bottom of the ocean, the eye facing upwards is larger than the eye facing towards the bottom! The next time you order a sole in a restaurant, ask the waiter for a left-handed sole. See what his reaction is. Horst > From: "Earl Verbeek" SHMM@sussexonline.com > Ahhh, that Axel . . . can't wait for you to meet him. > > From: Axel Emmermann > Philosophical thought: If a blind cat fluouresces in the dark, does itsee its shadow? > Yes, but only on Tuesdays and if the fish is lefthanded. Axel > _________________________________________________________________ > Try Live.com: where your online world comes together - with news, sports, weather, and much more. > http://www.live.com/getstarted > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jul 2 19:43:35 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jul 2 19:42:19 2006 Subject: OT: Flounders and Quartz {was: Re: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp} References: <44A87FD0.6546@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <44A88404.355A@Tomaszewski.net> I can't type -- it should have been... http://rockhoundingar.com/quartz/rt.left.html Kreigh Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > But flounders and soles do come in left and right hand versions, which > is part of how they are classified. See... > > http://www.gma.org/fogm/flounders_soles.htm > > Some minerals also crystalize in left and right handed versions, > including quartz. See... > > http://rockhoundingar.com/quartz/rt.left/html > > And since it is a natural process for both fish and mineals to exhibit > right and left handedness, maybe its not of-topic after all. > > Kreigh > > Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > > > Floundering in darkness, and in light, this fellow has both eyes upward. > > Glenn > > > > From: horstwindisch@absamail.co.za Yes, apparently you can get left-handed and right-handed soles. As the swim very near the bottom of the ocean, the eye facing upwards is larger than the eye facing towards the bottom! The next time you order a sole in a restaurant, ask the waiter for a left-handed sole. See what his reaction is. Horst > > From: "Earl Verbeek" SHMM@sussexonline.com > > Ahhh, that Axel . . . can't wait for you to meet him. > > > > From: Axel Emmermann > > Philosophical thought: If a blind cat fluouresces in the dark, does itsee its shadow? > > Yes, but only on Tuesdays and if the fish is lefthanded. Axel From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jul 2 19:54:41 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jul 2 19:54:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Magnetite Sand References: <44A87C0F.6B4B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <009d01c69e4c$0824a440$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Know anyone named Claus who collects sand? We could call him "Sandy Claus." I find sand with nearly equal amounts of magnetite and red garnets in the Ohio River bank deposits. I know that glacial sand in Indiana contains these minerals, occasionally with other heavy minerals - like gold. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:09 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Magnetite Sand > It was a beautiful day in West Michigan today and my girls wanted to go > to the beach for a swim. Mid-afternoon we packed up a picnic supper and > headed west to Lake Michigan, arriving at Tunnel Park, near Holland, MI, > about a half hour later. Tunnel Park is named for the tunnel thru the > large sand dune that blocks easy access to the beach from the park's > playground, picnic area, and parking lots. Those so inclined can climb > over the dune, or take the stairs to the observation deck at the crest > of the dune, but most folks take the tunnel that is almost at beach > level. > ... From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Jul 3 04:00:01 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Jul 3 03:59:59 2006 Subject: Flounders and Quartz {was: Re: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp} In-Reply-To: <44A87FD0.6546@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Now there's a new category of minerals to collect: levo- and dextrominerals! Thank you so much Kreigh ;-)))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: maandag 3 juli 2006 3:26 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: OT: Flounders and Quartz {was: Re: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp} But flounders and soles do come in left and right hand versions, which is part of how they are classified. See... http://www.gma.org/fogm/flounders_soles.htm Some minerals also crystalize in left and right handed versions, including quartz. See... http://rockhoundingar.com/quartz/rt.left/html And since it is a natural process for both fish and mineals to exhibit right and left handedness, maybe its not of-topic after all. Kreigh Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > Floundering in darkness, and in light, this fellow has both eyes upward. > Glenn > > From: horstwindisch@absamail.co.za Yes, apparently you can get left-handed and right-handed soles. As the swim very near the bottom of the ocean, the eye facing upwards is larger than the eye facing towards the bottom! The next time you order a sole in a restaurant, ask the waiter for a left-handed sole. See what his reaction is. Horst > From: "Earl Verbeek" SHMM@sussexonline.com > Ahhh, that Axel . . . can't wait for you to meet him. > > From: Axel Emmermann > Philosophical thought: If a blind cat fluouresces in the dark, does itsee its shadow? > Yes, but only on Tuesdays and if the fish is lefthanded. Axel > _________________________________________________________________ > Try Live.com: where your online world comes together - with news, sports, weather, and much more. > http://www.live.com/getstarted > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jul 3 05:34:24 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jul 3 05:34:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Pikes peak questions...Anyone been there? Message-ID: <070320061234.93.44A90ECE000AA5D30000005D215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi Kevin, I've never actually hunted minerals on Pikes Peak (well, except a couple of spots on the lower foothill slopes, as I'll mention in a minute), but the classic area for topaz especially is Glen Cove, which is the cliffs on the north side above the Pikes Peak auto road near its beginning. A couple of the Colo. mineral clubs have had field trips there in the past year or two, and at least a few of the people have indeed found some topaz crystals there. One can hunt either in the talus at the base of the cliffs, or on the cliffs themselves (partly requires tehcnical rock climbing gear). I know there is a standard hiking trail to the top of Pikes Peak, but I've never done it yet, so I don't recall offhand where that trail goes... but I just checked online, a description is at http://www.trailsandopenspaces.org/trails/pike-barr-trail.htm It's the Barr Trail, a REALLY long hike, 12.6 miles one way, here a bit of the description from that website: The trailhead is in west Manitou Springs, off Ruxton Avenue, near the Cog Railroad Depot. The other end is on the top of Pikes Peak. The trail itself is a well-marked, packed dirt and decomposed gravel trail to the top. However, it is not an easy hike. Four distinct segments of the trail exist, each with its own personality and challenges. The switchbacks up Rocky Mountain ( yes, it is not Mt. Manitou ) are steep and very tiring, so take your time and stop to enjoy the view and rest a bit. You will pass through beautiful forests of ponderosa pine and blue spruce. Wildflowers are abundant. ...We generally tell walkers it will take 6-10 hours with some taking longer. Start as early as you can, preferably at first light so you will have time to get up before our afternoon storms. Back to the minerals, the other well known localities are in the lower slopes leading to Pikes Peak in the Crystal Park area, below Cameron Cone (the land is partly National Forest but acess is mostly all private through the Crystal Park residential development, no public access). More accessible is the area around the base of Sentinel Rock, on the NE side of the Pikes Peak mountain mass, which can easily be accessed from the Gold Camp Road/High Drive (the one-way going north section); where there is smoky quartz & amazonite. Good luck, Pete -------------- Original message from Paintricks@aol.com: -------------- > Hey guys, > I live at the base of Pikes and was wondering if any of you have been > there and where to look. I wanna hike to it from Manitou and have tried this > last week but it is a big job getting to it. You aren't allowed to walk the > COG > railway so other routes are the only way. > What kind of things are available there and what are the best areas to > look. I like the unconventional places so I can get an unusual recovery. I > know there is Amazonite and topaz there but I'm sure it has been picked over. > What are some of the things any of you have recovered and what types of > rock(host rock) to look for. What are the characteristics of the host rock? I > live here in Manitou and also was wondering what to look for here in the > surrounding hills? > Would love the advice anyone may suggest. > Thanks in advance, > Kevin > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Mon Jul 3 07:36:27 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Mon Jul 3 07:37:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamond Acres, New York pictures Message-ID: <3f8981727b7d9d073921793a9439c9c6@comcast.net> http://www.superbauctions.net/fonda61206/ I asked Ron and Kathy for permission to share these pictures of our holes at Diamond Acres. I have mentioned the couple I helped go diamond through the list who visited my claim and now are neighbors with their own claim. Yes, this is also the Walmart baby oil for saw lube Ron. The woods that all digging takes place in at Diamond Acres were logged this winter. Along with the usual wind falls the place is a mess. Saws and axes are part of the digging equipment here to keep paths clear and remove debris from holes. 4180 Ron's hole before cleanup. This was my second choice hole years ago. 4181 after clean up. 4182 and 83 the undeveloped area West of Ron's hole. 4184 Ron's wall. Claims are usually marked by rock walls or rope. 4185 to 4194 Ron's hole. Will be pumped out this week. 4195 and 4196 This was the path East last year the 50' between holes. 4197 and 4198 Ron calls this the path of least resistance between our holes. 4199 Windfall next to my hole 4200 This was the tree I had an eyebolt in to string up 2 20x30 tarps while digging. To help with the scale of the site, it is covered by a 30x40' tarp. 40' from near the roots in the foreground to the end of the tarp in the upper right. 4201 Looks like somebody got upset when they found the huge padlock and the chain I have cemented into the rock and threw my wheel barrow into what Ron calls Lake John. 4202 There is at least 18" more water in the hole than I have ever seen. Water depth is roughly 5' 4203 Looking over my hole back towards Ron's. The blue near the top middle shows his area. 4204 The critters eating NY 4205 and 4206 Diamond Acres parking area. Main path up to digging on the right side of 05. I wish I could show you more of the hole. The only rock showing in 4202 is the Algae layer. This is the first layer of rock under the soil layer. It is about 2' thick. You can see water marks higher yet and these pictures were taken June 12 before the recent rains. Under the Algae layer is a 4 inch layer that looks like bad concrete to me. Below that is an 18" layer called shatter rock. The first pocket layer is under the shatter rock. In this hole it is nearly 3' thick with the pockets 2 1/2' down in the layer. Two other pocket layers are below the first. Best yet from this hole is a 13 crystal 5 1/2 lb. cluster. Of course the first day of digging consists of getting leaves and twigs off the tarp, getting the tarp out of the hole and pumping the hole out while evicting many many frogs. I am in the wet part of the mine by choice. There are 3 streams under the rock into this hole that carried glacial melt water 10,000 years ago. I have built concrete dams to keep the flow of groundwater out but seepage is always a problem. The dry spell last summer was the only time I have seen my hole dry. I think the water will have protected the crystals below the frost line. Will let you know if I was right when I get there. John J --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net Mon Jul 3 11:47:26 2006 From: cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net (Cliff Jackson) Date: Mon Jul 3 11:47:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moab UT trip report Message-ID: <4256926.1151952447016.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Left Las Vegas 6:30 AM. Myself and a Geologist friend riding shotgun. Arrived in the Moab area around 1:30 PM PDT. (Local time + 1 hr.) Headed west on Blue Hills Rd, just south of ???Moab International Airport???. To the south you will see the gray/green hills of the Morrison formation. Take any road heading south to the hills. We found the found the following items. Dino Bone- you cannot remove this but it is fun to see. Petrified wood all over the place, as usual once you find some and know what it looks like you will see it all over. There is also tons of agate so be selective and take the best. Saturday turned out to be a spectacular day. First we found two agate sites. At the first site the ground was covered with red, blue and white agate. At the second site the ground was also covered with red, blue and yellow. Some of it was very transparent and very nice. As a bonus it is all fluorescent. This site did not look like it was ever collected from and in the area to the west we could see other areas that looked like the same stuff. If any one would like GPS and a map please contact me off list and I will share this location. This area looked like it was in the Summerville formation and is know for very nice agate. The bonus was talking to a local rancher at one of the local watering holes Friday night. He owns some land that he said had dinosaur bones and gave us directions and permission to collect here. He was right about the location we found some very nice bone that was very colorful agate replacement. I also found a dinosaur claw 2.5 inches by 1.5 inches from, we think, an Allosaurus. This site was in the Morrison Formation Bushy Basin Member and around 149 million years old. We are going to go back this fall, as there was a lot of areas that looked promising that we did not have time to explore. Cliff Jackson Las Vegas From cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net Mon Jul 3 11:49:02 2006 From: cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net (Cliff Jackson) Date: Mon Jul 3 11:49:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moab, UT trip report Message-ID: <27439484.1151952542558.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Left Las Vegas 6:30 AM. Myself and a Geologist friend riding shotgun. Arrived in the Moab area around 1:30 PM PDT. (Local time + 1 hr.) Headed west on Blue Hills Rd, just south of ???Moab International Airport???. To the south you will see the gray/green hills of the Morrison formation. Take any road heading south to the hills. We found the found the following items. Dino Bone- you cannot remove this but it is fun to see. Petrified wood all over the place, as usual once you find some and know what it looks like you will see it all over. There is also tons of agate so be selective and take the best. Saturday turned out to be a spectacular day. First we found two agate sites. At the first site the ground was covered with red, blue and white agate. At the second site the ground was also covered with red, blue and yellow. Some of it was very transparent and very nice. As a bonus it is all fluorescent. This site did not look like it was ever collected from and in the area to the west we could see other areas that looked like the same stuff. If any one would like GPS and a map please contact me off list and I will share this location. This area looked like it was in the Summerville formation and is know for very nice agate. The bonus was talking to a local rancher at one of the local watering holes Friday night. He owns some land that he said had dinosaur bones and gave us directions and permission to collect here. He was right about the location we found some very nice bone that was very colorful agate replacement. I also found a dinosaur claw 2.5 inches by 1.5 inches from, we think, an Allosaurus. This site was in the Morrison Formation Bushy Basin Member and around 149 million years old. We are going to go back this fall, as there was a lot of areas that looked promising that we did not have time to explore. Cliff Jackson Las Vegas From cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net Mon Jul 3 12:01:14 2006 From: cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net (Cliff Jackson) Date: Mon Jul 3 12:01:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE Moab trip report Message-ID: <11834598.1151953275175.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Sorry for the double post computer acting funny Cliff Jackson Las Vegas From webmaster at rockhoundstation1.com Tue Jul 4 09:29:45 2006 From: webmaster at rockhoundstation1.com (Sally) Date: Tue Jul 4 12:18:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Pikes Peak Message-ID: <003901c69f87$1509c140$92b2d8d1@net> The first rock I ever found was on Pikes Peak. My dog and I were hiking and I saw something glitter in the sun so I picked it up. It was an awesome group of about 5 real nice quartz crystals which I have on display still. I also found some smokey quartz crystals that day. >From that time on I have been a foaming at the mouth, die hard rock hunter. In fact I'll look for anything - gems, artifacts, treasure, gold, fossils. Anyway -- You want to go to the back side of Pikes Peak - on the road up to Cripple Creek. Just find a nice spot to climb and go. Lot a beautiful crystals there if they haven't all been picked up. I think near the roads they have probably been picked out but if you climb a bit there should be plenty around - most tourists don't get too far in altitudes. Sal Sally Taylor webmaster@rockhoundstation1.com http://www.rockhoundstation1.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jul 4 22:01:31 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jul 4 21:58:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Magnetite Sand References: <44A87C0F.6B4B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <44AB46C7.4CDD@Tomaszewski.net> Unfortunately, the requests for magnetite and sand exceeded what I had collected, and I had to cut off requests this morning. However, I am planning a return visit to the beach in a few weeks, and will collect more sand and magnetite at that time to meet the demand. So if you are still interested in a trade, contact me *_OFF-LIST_*, with your mailing address, by the 10th of July, and I will include you in the second round of this trade offer. Again, all I ask is a similar quantity of sand from somewhere else in return for my package (that will have about twice as much plain sand as seperated magnetite); it will cost you postage one way. Kreigh Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > It was a beautiful day in West Michigan today and my girls wanted to go > to the beach for a swim. Mid-afternoon we packed up a picnic supper and > headed west to Lake Michigan, arriving at Tunnel Park, near Holland, MI, > about a half hour later. Tunnel Park is named for the tunnel thru the > large sand dune that blocks easy access to the beach from the park's > playground, picnic area, and parking lots. Those so inclined can climb > over the dune, or take the stairs to the observation deck at the crest > of the dune, but most folks take the tunnel that is almost at beach > level. > > The beach was not crowded, but there were a lot of families out for fun > on the sand and in the water. Lots of kids, from infants to about 80; it > is a great family park. My teenaged girls got their swim, and made a > sand castle with my wife (complete with moat, walls, towers, and a > citadel -- I was impressed with the detail). > > I sat down on the dry sand back from the water, pulled out my 1/2 inch > cube super-magnet, and in a short time I had a baggie with over 100 ml > of black sand. I only had to run the magnet thru about 10 square feet of > sand and pick off whatever stuck. > > Lake Michigan beach sand is mostly fine quartz sand, with enough other > stuff (feldspars?) to make it almost skin colored, but it is full of > little black specs, which are mostly magnetite. Under a lens you can see > many of the grains are nice crystals. I also picked up a couple 100 ml > of plain sand in the baggie my supper sandwich came out of. > > Once we got home (stopping at an ice cream stand on the way) I found I > had some nice small acrylic boxes on hand with neat interlocking bases. > I filled them upside down with sand, black and white, snapped in the > base, and sealed it with tape on two sides to make a secure display for > sand. Labeled 'Magnetite', and 'Sand with Magnetite', specimens now sit > on my display shelves. > > It may not have been your normal field trip, but minerals were > collected, and fun was had by all. > > And if you read this far, and agree it was fun, you might be a sand > collector. I only displayed about half of what I collected, so I've got > some extra to trade. I'll split it evenly between any sand collectors > that contact me, _*_OFF-List_*_, by the 4th of July, with their > snail-mail address. All I ask is a similar quantity of sand from > somewhere else in return for my package (that will have about twice as > much plain sand as seperated magnetite); it will cost you postage one > way. > > Kreigh From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Jul 4 23:13:39 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Jul 4 23:13:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning storm on Mt. Antero Message-ID: <200607050613.k656Dfm8028646@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi all, My friend and I were on Mt. Antero during thunderstorms this past weekend (Saturday) and I felt something like electrical shocks on the outside edge of my right ear. It felt like someone was discharging static electricity on my ear for approximately 10 seconds. It happened in three different groupings, each a few seconds long. Have any of you heard of this? It didn't hurt, but it scared the sh*t out of me, so we ran to my Jeep to take cover. No lightning struck in the immediate area at that time, although it was all around us (within a mile). I had a wide-brimmed hat on so my friend didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I was wondering if it could be "St. Elmo's fire" or something similar. It left no marks on me. My hat doesn't have any metal pieces anywhere near where my ear is. It wasn't any kind of a bug and it wasn't part of my hat rubbing against my ear. Lightning did strike directly above us within a couple thousand feet (we counted to 2 after seeing the lightning and then heard the thunder), but that was possibly 30 minutes later. Very scary! Any thoughts? Regards, Bob From Paintricks at aol.com Wed Jul 5 01:49:27 2006 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 5 01:49:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning storm on Mt. Antero Message-ID: <9a.3be34283.31dcd717@aol.com> The symptoms of being hit by lightning is you hair stands on end. And a tingling sensation. A strike is imminent. The summer days are known on Antero as a dangerous time because the storms come up on you so quickly. Try to go there as early as you can so you have time to descent. Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com Wed Jul 5 04:51:03 2006 From: jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com (jennifer) Date: Wed Jul 5 04:50:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Florida Rockhounds? In-Reply-To: <006601c6997d$82dfe1f0$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: Am wondering if there are any Rockhounds in the Delray Beach, Boca Raton, Palm Beach County, FL area on the list. If so, can you email me off-line. I'm wondering about meetings for the Palm Beach group, as well as some resources for rock stores, etc. Thanks! jennifer From jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com Wed Jul 5 05:15:44 2006 From: jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com (jennifer) Date: Wed Jul 5 05:15:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polyurethane as an adhesive or model building? In-Reply-To: <006601c6997d$82dfe1f0$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: Does anyone know if you can use clear polyurethane as an adhesive? I want to mount a stone onto a plate and add some fake grass around it, and don't want it to come off the plate. I also want to be able to build up the adhesive to make the moss or grass look like it's "hilly". I know some of you have suggested mineral tack, floral tape, etc. but those all allow for the object to be pulled off the base. I've tried some adhesive glues and the stones I'm using pop out of the adhesive with little effort. I plan to try epoxy but am also wondering if anyone has had any luck using polyurethane (e.g., pouring it onto the plate, letting it dry and then pouring more to make the hill, and then once you have the "land" looking the way you want, add the grass and stone. If there's a better way to do this, I'm all eyes and ears because I can make things more complicated than necessary. Maybe I also need to find someone who builds museum displays or dioramas :-)) thanks as always, jennifer From edben at prodigy.net Wed Jul 5 05:31:14 2006 From: edben at prodigy.net (edben) Date: Wed Jul 5 05:31:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning storm onMt. Antero References: <200607050613.k656Dfm8028646@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000901c6a02e$e90c8750$4d719f04@benjamin> Hi Bob. This old WWII Liberty Ship Radio Operator recognizes your "symptom", though, thank goodness I've never experienced it bodily! Your assumption about St. Elmo's fire has to be correct. The discharge is usually seen on pointed objects, and is often known simply as "point discharge." We commonly encountered this during a slow drizzle. When it happens, a constant "rush" of static smothered every radio signal on the air. At the same time, if I were to unplug the ship's antenna (it came with a very well insulated handle!), I could easily draw a constant spark of 6 inches or more! That could give one quite a wallop! I've encountered this just once since returning to "dry land" after the war. It was probably in the late '50's, driving through the plains of central Illinois on a dull, drizzly day. Suddenly, the car radio came up with that old familiar "rushing roar," and until it stopped some minutes later, not a station could be heard through the interference. I'm sure, that had it been night time, St Elmo's Fire would have been seen on my antenna tip. Incidently, the ball on the tip of most auto antennas is designed to help prevent this, by minimizing the "point effect." But one's ear!!! No wonder "pointy ears" are so rare! The survival rate would be real low! Ed Benjamin -- The Old WWII Liberty Ship Chief Radio Operator (Ah, those were the years!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 2:13 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning storm onMt. Antero > From ki3u at hotmail.com Wed Jul 5 06:18:31 2006 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Wed Jul 5 06:18:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning stormonMt. Antero In-Reply-To: <000901c6a02e$e90c8750$4d719f04@benjamin> Message-ID: Hello Bob and Ed I've experienced the high electric field aorund me during lightning storms several times in the Appalachian mountains of Pennsylvania - it is like being very near a big Van de Graaf generator, and you get concerned because you know what is coming. Twice, in radio rooms, I've experienced direct lightning hits. In the most dramatic case, radio equipment and other metal pieces were actually vaporized all around me, telephone jacks blew off the walls etc., but thank God no fires started. The odd thing was the thunder sound - I was sure from the boom that the strike was not direct to my cabin, but to the immediately adjacent building - but that building was untouched. Perhaps my perception of the sound pressure waves, relates to a curiosity of the 1908 Tunguska fireball event - at ground zero there was a small stand of trees intact. I've also seen the drawing of sparks from antenna transmission lines etc. There is just a little bit of warning time: when these effects are noticed, it is time for immediate safety procedures, if nothing else than lie down on the ground. 73 Berj / KI3U >From: "edben" Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock >and gem collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning >stormonMt. Antero >Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 08:31:14 -0400 > >Hi Bob. > >This old WWII Liberty Ship Radio Operator recognizes your "symptom", >though, thank goodness I've never experienced it bodily! Your assumption >about St. Elmo's fire has to be correct. The discharge is usually seen on >pointed objects, and is often known simply as "point discharge." > >We commonly encountered this during a slow drizzle. When it happens, a >constant "rush" of static smothered every radio signal on the air. At the >same time, if I were to unplug the ship's antenna (it came with a very well >insulated handle!), I could easily draw a constant spark of 6 inches or >more! That could give one quite a wallop! > >I've encountered this just once since returning to "dry land" after the >war. It was probably in the late '50's, driving through the plains of >central Illinois on a dull, drizzly day. Suddenly, the car radio came up >with that old familiar "rushing roar," and until it stopped some minutes >later, not a station could be heard through the interference. I'm sure, >that had it been night time, St Elmo's Fire would have been seen on my >antenna tip. Incidently, the ball on the tip of most auto antennas is >designed to help prevent this, by minimizing the "point effect." > >But one's ear!!! No wonder "pointy ears" are so rare! The survival rate >would be real low! > >Ed Benjamin -- The Old WWII Liberty Ship Chief Radio Operator (Ah, those >were the years!) > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" >To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > >Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 2:13 AM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning storm >onMt. Antero > > From tam2819 at cox.net Wed Jul 5 08:33:44 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Wed Jul 5 08:33:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polyurethane as an adhesive or model building? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jennifer, Try Gorilla Glue. It takes a bit more time and effort, but may do it for you. I saw it at Home Depot, bought mine at Michaels. Terrie From Paintricks at aol.com Wed Jul 5 11:08:27 2006 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 5 11:08:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning stormonMt. Antero Message-ID: <385.68feb70.31dd5a1b@aol.com> In a message dated 7/5/2006 7:21:09 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, ki3u@hotmail.com writes: There is just a little bit of warning time: when these effects are noticed, it is time for immediate safety procedures, if nothing else than lie down on the ground. I saw a program that told me that if you crouch down and cover your ears It would help make you a (less of a target) so to speak. But,.. what can you really do? Also I saw somewhere that lightning affects rocks sometimes and was wondering if anyone has known of this and any specimens they may have. Seems rare. Regard, Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jul 5 11:23:37 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jul 5 11:23:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstormonMt. Antero In-Reply-To: <385.68feb70.31dd5a1b@aol.com> Message-ID: >I saw a program that told me that if you crouch down and cover your ears It >would help make you a (less of a target) so to speak. But,.. what can you >really do? Yes, but if you're male: crouch down WITH YOUR KNEES TOGETHER (not joking here, gents!). Lightning may regard any dangling body part as the closest to the ground if you have rubber soles under your shoes. The correct name of the movie is "Free Willy" not "Fry Willy". Cheers Axel From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Jul 5 11:41:14 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Jul 5 11:41:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning stormonMt. Antero Message-ID: <070520061841.21627.44AC07CA00045FA30000547B216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I have (as all of us have) always heard about this too, but in years of climbing around on hills and mountains, I have never yet seen such a melted/blasted patch on a rock, nor have I ever even seen a picture of one, so I'll be pleased if someone on the List can share one! My personal guess is that most likely when lightning hits a rock, it explodes and spalls off parts of the rock from vaporizing moisture inside the rock, and one is more likely to just see a freshly broken surface than an actual melted one. But since I've never seen one, I am still just guessing. Pete -------------- Original message from Paintricks@aol.com: -------------- > > In a message dated 7/5/2006 7:21:09 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > ki3u@hotmail.com writes: > > Also I saw somewhere that lightning affects rocks sometimes and was > wondering if anyone has known of this and any specimens they may have. Seems > rare. > Regard, > Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com Wed Jul 5 12:02:55 2006 From: jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com (jennifer@thevioletgypsy.com) Date: Wed Jul 5 12:03:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polyurethane as an adhesive or model building? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1152126175.44ac0cdf79560@webmail.thevioletgypsy.com> Thanks Terrie. I'll take a look at it. jennifer Quoting Teresa Masters : > Jennifer, > Try Gorilla Glue. It takes a bit more time and effort, but may do it > for you. I saw it at Home Depot, bought mine at Michaels. > Terrie > From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 12:07:28 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jul 5 12:07:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polyurethane as an adhesive or model building? In-Reply-To: <1152126175.44ac0cdf79560@webmail.thevioletgypsy.com> References: <1152126175.44ac0cdf79560@webmail.thevioletgypsy.com> Message-ID: I've used gorilla glue as a wood glue and it works great. However it does seem to generate glue foam on setting. It squeezes foam out around the joint and solidifies. Hard to describe. But you can cut it off after it sets. BK On 7/5/06, jennifer@thevioletgypsy.com wrote: > > Thanks Terrie. I'll take a look at it. > > jennifer > > > Quoting Teresa Masters : > > > Jennifer, > > Try Gorilla Glue. It takes a bit more time and effort, but may do it > > for you. I saw it at Home Depot, bought mine at Michaels. > > Terrie > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jul 5 12:10:53 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jul 5 12:10:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning stormonMt. Antero In-Reply-To: <070520061841.21627.44AC07CA00045FA30000547B216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <070520061841.21627.44AC07CA00045FA30000547B216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Look at this page about Mt Thielsen, in the Cascades: BK On 7/5/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > I have (as all of us have) always heard about this too, but in years of > climbing around on hills and mountains, I have never yet seen such a > melted/blasted patch on a rock, nor have I ever even seen a picture of one, > so I'll be pleased if someone on the List can share one! > > My personal guess is that most likely when lightning hits a rock, it > explodes and spalls off parts of the rock from vaporizing moisture inside > the rock, and one is more likely to just see a freshly broken surface than > an actual melted one. But since I've never seen one, I am still just > guessing. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from Paintricks@aol.com: -------------- > > > > In a message dated 7/5/2006 7:21:09 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > > ki3u@hotmail.com writes: > > > > Also I saw somewhere that lightning affects rocks sometimes and was > > wondering if anyone has known of this and any specimens they may have. > Seems > > rare. > > Regard, > > Kevin > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From SHMM at sussexonline.com Wed Jul 5 12:51:20 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Wed Jul 5 12:51:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstormonMt. Antero In-Reply-To: <070520061841.21627.44AC07CA00045FA30000547B216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <000601c6a06c$670ff910$047b1540@D3JM7W21> Humphrey's Peak, if I remember correctly, is the tallest of the San Francisco Peaks near Flagstaff, AZ. Near and on the top one can find small patches of "bubbly" andesite that record lightning strikes. The andesite was most likely to melt wherever a small stream of water was flowing over it, so you'll see little meandering trails of molten andesite, resolidified as nearly black glass. Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 2:41 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstormonMt. Antero I have (as all of us have) always heard about this too, but in years of climbing around on hills and mountains, I have never yet seen such a melted/blasted patch on a rock, nor have I ever even seen a picture of one, so I'll be pleased if someone on the List can share one! My personal guess is that most likely when lightning hits a rock, it explodes and spalls off parts of the rock from vaporizing moisture inside the rock, and one is more likely to just see a freshly broken surface than an actual melted one. But since I've never seen one, I am still just guessing. Pete From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Jul 5 12:59:17 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Jul 5 12:59:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstormonMt. Antero Message-ID: <070520061959.10208.44AC1A1500084180000027E0216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Wow, you've really seen that on Humphreys, Earl? Darn it, that 1884 AJS article on Mt. Thielsen just didn't include any digital images of the fulgurites it was talking about. Pete -------------- Original message from "Earl Verbeek" : -------------- > Humphrey's Peak, if I remember correctly, is the tallest of the San > Francisco Peaks near Flagstaff, AZ. Near and on the top one can find small > patches of "bubbly" andesite that record lightning strikes. The andesite > was most likely to melt wherever a small stream of water was flowing over > it, so you'll see little meandering trails of molten andesite, resolidified > as nearly black glass. > > Cheers- Earl > > ----------------------------------- > Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist > Sterling Hill Mining Museum > 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 > 973-209-7212 > shmm@sussexonline.com > .html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kugeln at msn.com Wed Jul 5 13:05:14 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (John Stockwell) Date: Wed Jul 5 13:05:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstormonMt.Antero References: <000601c6a06c$670ff910$047b1540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: In the summers of 1953 and 54 I was assisting in the excavation by Yale's Peabody Museum of a sauropod near Hanksville, Utah. We spoke of 10 inch rains, meaning the rare drops were ten inches apart. Anyway, to lift the plaster encased bones out of the quarry we used a fairly high tripod of wood but with an iron pulley. From time to time it would begin to "sing" and that was our sign to get out of the immediate vicinity. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Verbeek" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 12:51 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstormonMt.Antero > Humphrey's Peak, if I remember correctly, is the tallest of the San > Francisco Peaks near Flagstaff, AZ. Near and on the top one can find > small > patches of "bubbly" andesite that record lightning strikes. The andesite > was most likely to melt wherever a small stream of water was flowing over > it, so you'll see little meandering trails of molten andesite, > resolidified > as nearly black glass. > > Cheers- Earl > > ----------------------------------- > Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist > Sterling Hill Mining Museum > 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 > 973-209-7212 > shmm@sussexonline.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > pjmodreski@att.net > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 2:41 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a > lightningstormonMt. Antero > > I have (as all of us have) always heard about this too, but in years of > climbing around on hills and mountains, I have never yet seen such a > melted/blasted patch on a rock, nor have I ever even seen a picture of > one, > so I'll be pleased if someone on the List can share one! > > My personal guess is that most likely when lightning hits a rock, it > explodes and spalls off parts of the rock from vaporizing moisture inside > the rock, and one is more likely to just see a freshly broken surface than > an actual melted one. But since I've never seen one, I am still just > guessing. > > Pete > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Jul 5 15:29:35 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Wed Jul 5 15:29:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polyurethane as an adhesive or model building? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002601c6a082$54fb5d30$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Jennifer: Gorilla glue and similar polyurethane glues react with moisture both in the wood and in the air to cure. This causes the foaming. In any case it is an inefficient way of building layers for models. As for gluing rocks... well, I guess it depends on the rock or mineral. The glue requires some porosity and moisture for it to glue well. The cheat sheet for Gorilla glue can be found at http://www.gorillaglue.com/pdfs/technicalDataWood.pdf I am rather surprised that we haven't heard from someone on this list that is a model builder. Train collectors are especially skilled (in my opinion) at building backgrounds with 3-D form and texture. Well, anyway till they reveal themselves I'll toss some ideas into the ring. For gluing purposes with permanency, I'd lean towards the cyanacrylates (superglues). They are clear, do not foam out and are quick especially in that they do not need 4-24 hours to set. For set building; I would recommend other options rather than glue. If you want to construct in layers, consider using clay. Roll it out with a wine bottle or dowel and cut to shape. Use multiple layers to build up levels and then smooth to shape. Or visit the local computer shop and see if you can get some of the foam used to line computer boxes. Carve the foam to your design and desire. By all means visit a local hobby store; the real kind that is, not the big box crafts stores. The small hobby stores often supply the local train collectors with their train set supplies including landscapes, they also supply the local D&D game dungeon masters and players with models and landscapes. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 3:07 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Polyurethane as an adhesive or model building? I've used gorilla glue as a wood glue and it works great. However it does seem to generate glue foam on setting. It squeezes foam out around the joint and solidifies. Hard to describe. But you can cut it off after it sets. BK On 7/5/06, jennifer@thevioletgypsy.com wrote: > > Thanks Terrie. I'll take a look at it. > > jennifer > > > Quoting Teresa Masters : > > > Jennifer, > > Try Gorilla Glue. It takes a bit more time and effort, but may do it From cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 5 15:37:57 2006 From: cliffjackson9 at earthlink.net (Cliff Jackson) Date: Wed Jul 5 15:38:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water fed Grinders Message-ID: <22706742.1152139077501.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> List I am looking to purchase a water fed grinder. As I have a good compresurer I am looking at air drive. My choices, so far, are a Little Blue Baby or a Silent Green. Any input, suggestions or offers of used equipment. Cliff Jackson Las Vegas From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 5 16:16:04 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 5 16:16:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polyurethane as an adhesive or model building? References: Message-ID: <44AC482A.763A@Tomaszewski.net> jennifer wrote: > > Does anyone know if you can use clear polyurethane as an adhesive? Jennifer, I've used clear poly to permanently attach paper specimen number labels to many rocks. You put one drop of poly onto the stone with a toothpick. You set the paper label (1/4 - 1/2 inch square) on top of the drop and lightly tap it down (you don't want to squeeze out the poly, just bring it to the edges of the label). You can optionally add another drop of poly to the top of the label -- I usually wait to see how it sets and soaks into the paper before deciding if a top drop is needed. Set the stone so the label is on top and horizontal while it hardens (a beanbag or zip-lock filled with sand makes a great adjustable holder) so it doesn't run. > > I want to mount a stone onto a plate and add some fake grass around it, and > don't want it to come off the plate. I also want to be able to build up the > adhesive to make the moss or grass look like it's "hilly". I know some of > you have suggested mineral tack, floral tape, etc. but those all allow for > the object to be pulled off the base. I've tried some adhesive glues and > the stones I'm using pop out of the adhesive with little effort. > > If there's a better way to do this, I'm all eyes and ears because I can make > things more complicated than necessary. You might make your hills out of plaster and sand, mixed 50-50 by volume. After they harden you can coat them with poly and/or glue them down with epoxy or gorilla glue (messy stuff as it foams, but it really holds). Use the same glue for your stones. The plaster and sand mix is the 'browncoat' that forms the base of lath plastered walls (and holds them to the lath). The sand was often cut with horse hair, which served as reinforcing fiber (rebar for plaster), made the walls a little lighter, and actually cut costs because horse hair used to be cheaper than sand. Kreigh From jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com Wed Jul 5 16:24:03 2006 From: jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com (jennifer@thevioletgypsy.com) Date: Wed Jul 5 16:24:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polyurethane as an adhesive or model building? In-Reply-To: <002601c6a082$54fb5d30$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <002601c6a082$54fb5d30$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <1152141843.44ac4a131c45f@webmail.thevioletgypsy.com> Thanks so far for the replies people are sending. My mind is spinning and going in a few directions. I wish someone by me would teach a class in this, so may be I need to look at the model train stores and see what they offer, or a horticultural place. Lots of possibilities.... now I just need the time to do it. jennifer From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Jul 5 16:45:21 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Jul 5 16:42:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polyurethane as an adhesive or model building? In-Reply-To: <1152141843.44ac4a131c45f@webmail.thevioletgypsy.com> References: <002601c6a082$54fb5d30$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> <1152141843.44ac4a131c45f@webmail.thevioletgypsy.com> Message-ID: <44AC4F11.9060500@verizon.net> jennifer@thevioletgypsy.com wrote: > Thanks so far for the replies people are sending. My mind is spinning and > going in a few directions. I wish someone by me would teach a class in this, > so may be I need to look at the model train stores and see what they offer, Jennifer, As someone who dabbled in trains, and as another suggested, I can recommend a few things. Train modelers use polyurethane, styrofoam, plaster, clay, wire, acrylic, and all sorts of things to create dioramas--BUT you are limited in the sense of trying to hold a rock. As someone else said, it depends on the rock, and a polished, smooth silicate surface will not hold indefinitely to too many things. However, if you are bonding a rock to glass, there are probably a few hard-core epoxies that will do the job, assuming no one is going to grab the rock and try to pry it off. I can also recommend something called Norland Optical Adhesive, which I have been using with some success to mount analytical samples to glass despite predictions that it wouldn't work well. It cures with longwave UV light and is rather exotic, and somewhat expensive, but I thought I'd mention it. As I'm thinking about it, I realize I was using the Norland to replace the troublesome PetroPoxy, which is specially made to bond rock material to glass but tends to shrink when cured, and often puts hairline cracks in the glass and causes headaches for analysts. However if you're really desperate I can't imagine a better adhesive for what you're doing. Try everything else first though, and definitely check the train stores, since they have some creative and imaginative people in that hobby. Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 5 16:47:12 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 5 16:47:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning stormonMt. Antero References: <070520061841.21627.44AC07CA00045FA30000547B216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <44AC4F7F.2D72@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, I have a bad picture of one on my website http://Tomaszewski.net/Images/1190a.jpg It is a breccia that was melted by lightning, and you can even see bubbles in the molten part. I got this specimen in a trade with Jess Tan, who collected it off the continental divide in Colorado. I assume it was part of the rock that was broken off when the bolt hit. Kreigh P.S., You can make your own minature fulgurites with a neon sign transformer in a metal bucket filled with sand. Connect the bucket to the cold side, and push the hot (12-15,000 volts) wire lead to the bottom of the bucket so it arcs. Slowly draw out the wire until the two inch arc breaks. The arc will melt the sand, which becomes conductive when molten, allowing you to grow your fulgurite. Turn off the transformer, let the sand cool, and carefully pour our the sand to retrieve your glass fulgurite. pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > I have (as all of us have) always heard about this too, but in years of climbing around on hills and mountains, I have never yet seen such a melted/blasted patch on a rock, nor have I ever even seen a picture of one, so I'll be pleased if someone on the List can share one! > > My personal guess is that most likely when lightning hits a rock, it explodes and spalls off parts of the rock from vaporizing moisture inside the rock, and one is more likely to just see a freshly broken surface than an actual melted one. But since I've never seen one, I am still just guessing. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from Paintricks@aol.com: -------------- > > > > In a message dated 7/5/2006 7:21:09 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > > ki3u@hotmail.com writes: > > > > Also I saw somewhere that lightning affects rocks sometimes and was > > wondering if anyone has known of this and any specimens they may have. Seems > > rare. > > Regard, > > Kevin > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Jul 5 16:57:55 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Jul 5 16:55:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polyurethane as an adhesive or model building? In-Reply-To: <1152141843.44ac4a131c45f@webmail.thevioletgypsy.com> References: <002601c6a082$54fb5d30$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> <1152141843.44ac4a131c45f@webmail.thevioletgypsy.com> Message-ID: <44AC5203.3060204@verizon.net> jennifer@thevioletgypsy.com wrote: > Thanks so far for the replies people are sending. My mind is spinning and > going in a few directions. Oh and P.S.--I guess this may be obvious after all the other messages--but I bet there are plenty of magazines, websites, and newsgroups for builders of trains, models, and dioramas. Those hobies overlap, but the same skills are used in all of them. For example I remember using tissue paper soaked in Elmer's glue to make some sort of terrain, and it holds things pretty tightly since the tissue sort of forms a cast around wherever it dries. In any case, think outside the boundaries on this one. From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Jul 5 17:29:25 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Jul 5 17:27:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polyurethane as an adhesive or model building? References: Message-ID: <001501c6a093$3c78bc60$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> I made a "miniature" woodland garden like that and I used aquarium silicone sealant to adhere the rocks where I wanted them. Till there after more than 10 years. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "jennifer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 7:15 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Polyurethane as an adhesive or model building? From kugeln at msn.com Wed Jul 5 17:56:48 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (John Stockwell) Date: Wed Jul 5 17:56:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? Message-ID: Anybody out there, especially MT list members, know the answer to that question? Who founded DJ Minerals? Thanks for any help. John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 5 18:11:48 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 5 18:11:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? References: Message-ID: <44AC6346.5243@Tomaszewski.net> John, Go to Google.com, type in "DJ Minerals", and press the I'm Feeling Lucky button. Kreigh John Stockwell wrote: > > Anybody out there, especially MT list members, know the answer to that question? > > Who founded DJ Minerals? > > Thanks for any help. > > John > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From webmaster at rockhoundstation1.com Wed Jul 5 19:08:19 2006 From: webmaster at rockhoundstation1.com (Sally) Date: Wed Jul 5 18:50:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Lightning on Antero Message-ID: <005b01c6a0a1$0dde7760$74b2d8d1@net> Holy Cow Bob, You bet I've heard of it - I took to sand skiing down a 13.5 footer once when I felt electricity (didn't see the storm or feel it til I came over the top, then there the clouds were sweeping in- when you can feel it that means to get down out of altitude - tourists used to get fried every year because they don't get off the top fast enough when I lived in CO. Lightning and mountains is nothing to mess with - no more than you would swing a golf club in it. You are very fortunate to tell about it later. Don't realize how close you came. Sal Sally Taylor webmaster@rockhoundstation1.com http://www.rockhoundstation1.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Wed Jul 5 19:42:21 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Jul 5 19:43:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstormonMt.Antero In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001401c6a0a5$ce9b2580$0200a8c0@kadok> Some of the main points with lightning are: 1) you want to be the shortest thing around, so avoid close proximity to such things as large rocks, trees, etc. 2) And you also need to be far enough away from them to avoid ground currents. **Ground currents probably kill many more people than direct strikes**. 3) you want to have as little contact as possible with anything solid, and as few points of contact as possible. Maximum of two. Lying down (as someone suggested) is not a good idea as that puts your whole body is then in contact with the ground. Crouching is probably best. 4) if you have a pack or something with non-conductibles (such as clothing, etc.) in it, crouch on it. Rubber-soled clothes probably do help a bit. Too bad we can't levitate- !!! 5) Surprisingly, under overhangs and in caves are NOT good places to be! Margaret Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstormonMt.Antero >I saw a program that told me that if you crouch down and cover your ears It >would help make you a (less of a target) so to speak. But,.. what can you >really do? Yes, but if you're male: crouch down WITH YOUR KNEES TOGETHER (not joking here, gents!). Lightning may regard any dangling body part as the closest to the ground if you have rubber soles under your shoes. The correct name of the movie is "Free Willy" not "Fry Willy". Cheers Axel _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kadok at infowest.com Wed Jul 5 19:52:32 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Jul 5 19:52:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstormonMt. Antero In-Reply-To: <070520061841.21627.44AC07CA00045FA30000547B216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <001501c6a0a7$3a401a60$0200a8c0@kadok> Hi, Pete. I haven't actually seen a melted/blasted patch on a rock, either. On the other hand, I have seen some nice fulgurites -- even have one myself. And (just a wee bit off the subject) I remember once as a kid (we had some great electrical storms in Oklahoma!) after a storm when I *knew* a bolt had hit somewhere nearby, I found a fencepost in the back yard where it had hit. These fenceposts were made of iron pipe filled with concrete. The fencing was attached to the posts with circlets of wire. All these circlets were neatly burned in two! Also, a nearby tree was apparently killed by it. It wasn't burned-looking or blasted, but it just died. Probably got the roots?? Cheers! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 11:41 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstormonMt. Antero I have (as all of us have) always heard about this too, but in years of climbing around on hills and mountains, I have never yet seen such a melted/blasted patch on a rock, nor have I ever even seen a picture of one, so I'll be pleased if someone on the List can share one! My personal guess is that most likely when lightning hits a rock, it explodes and spalls off parts of the rock from vaporizing moisture inside the rock, and one is more likely to just see a freshly broken surface than an actual melted one. But since I've never seen one, I am still just guessing. Pete -------------- Original message from Paintricks@aol.com: -------------- > > In a message dated 7/5/2006 7:21:09 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > ki3u@hotmail.com writes: > > Also I saw somewhere that lightning affects rocks sometimes and was > wondering if anyone has known of this and any specimens they may have. Seems > rare. > Regard, > Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kugeln at msn.com Wed Jul 5 20:09:11 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (John Stockwell) Date: Wed Jul 5 20:09:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? References: <44AC6346.5243@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Kreigh, I'd already visited the website and can't find there the answers to my questions. What's the "I'm feeling Lucky" button. Seems to me I've seen such on Google, but not this time. They can still be found on the internet yellow pages, but the last certain date I have is 1999. John John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? > John, > > Go to Google.com, type in "DJ Minerals", and press the I'm Feeling Lucky > button. > > Kreigh > > > > > > John Stockwell wrote: >> >> Anybody out there, especially MT list members, know the answer to that >> question? >> >> Who founded DJ Minerals? >> >> Thanks for any help. >> >> John >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 5 20:42:44 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 5 20:42:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning stormonMt. Antero References: <385.68feb70.31dd5a1b@aol.com> Message-ID: <44AC8695.4CF9@Tomaszewski.net> Laying down on the ground exposes you to differential shock from a nearby lightning strike. If you contact the ground at multiple points your body may be the path of least resistance. Your safest posture is a mushroom, one foot on the ground (ball of foot perferred), and curled up, to present a rounded surface to the sky. By presenting a single (rounded) point of contact to the earth or air, you not only minimize your chance of being struck, but you prevent a conduction path through your body from a nearby strike by not having two points of contact to the earth. If you can't do one foot, keep your feet and knees together. Think like an electron, and minimize your risk of being ionized. It is going to be danged uncomfortable. It is going to be wet (you ARE stuck out in the open!). But it is a heck of a lot better than being fried because you could not reach a vehicle or a safe building in time, and failed to take reasonable precautions. If you can hear the thunder, or if you can count to 30 between the flash and the thunder, it is already too close, and you should be heading for cover. http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/outdoors.htm I've met St. Elmo once, in my own backyard (the strike shortly after was to a building across the street). I've been hit by flying debris on half of the other four close strikes that have missed me, by between 4 and 114 feet; I'm beginning to have a serious respect of lightning. BTW, if you are in Boston, go to the Children's Science Museum -- their Lightning Show, with the world's largest Van De Graf generator, is not to be missed. And there is a great Fulgerite on display at the entrance to the Lightning Theatre. Kreigh Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 7/5/2006 7:21:09 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > ki3u@hotmail.com writes: > > There is just a little bit of warning time: when these effects are noticed, > it is time for immediate safety procedures, if nothing else than lie down on > the ground. > > I saw a program that told me that if you crouch down and cover your ears It > would help make you a (less of a target) so to speak. But,.. what can you > really do? > > Also I saw somewhere that lightning affects rocks sometimes and was > wondering if anyone has known of this and any specimens they may have. Seems rare. > Regard, > Kevin > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kugeln at msn.com Wed Jul 5 21:20:25 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (John Stockwell) Date: Wed Jul 5 21:20:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OK, Kreigh Message-ID: Now I recall; found the button. However, took me to pages already viewed. But thanks. John --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 21:34:46 2006 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Wed Jul 5 21:34:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning storm--AND Bigones In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060706043446.60246.qmail@web51014.mail.yahoo.com> Collecting safety should always be "on topic". Plus fulgerites are awe inspiring to collect in the field--provided you aren't the fused object! This situation could have had a much sadder ending for Bob. St. Elmo's fire is not usually associated with lightning and Bob may have been near a "Stepped Leader" that never connected. Ed and Berj raised a lot of good points(static charges tend to concentrate on points such as the trailing edge of aircraft wings and radio antennas). Owing that I am a 4 time lightening shock survivor(with at least 8 near misses that I avoided largely by practicing the advice I am offering) I'll share what I know about detection and survival-- skipping the gore about body-sized bruises that looked like feathering or flowering (Lichtenberg figures), flash melted dental fillings, lifetime nerve damage, progressive memory loss, kidney and, liver failure... That is post strike and this info is to help reduce getting stuck in the first place. This assumes that you are in a field location when an electrical storm comes up and you are not within 20-30 meters from a shack or automobile/ATV. (A tin mining shack or your automobile can qualify as a Faraday cage and actually help divert the stepped leader and connecting bolt away from the inside). Larger buildings are better. Get onto rubber and away from metal parts even within a Faraday Cage. The Army undertook a study to reduce the number of deaths due to strikes on troops in the field and I concur that it works. Here is my own modification to their SOP. mine is SASSS SENSE: Beyond the audio and visual dysplay of an approaching storm, imminent strikes can be detected buy a certain sensation which usually includes the hairs on your skin standing up. This is subtle but distinct and can include a crackling in your ears. The hairs on your head may be too long to fully stand up but they impart the sensation. It is not easy to describe how it feels but it is a persistent and building sensation more than just gooseboomps. Failing that, don't argue with your inner voice/gurdian angel/inspiration or what ever you might choose to call it! It isn't "macho' to not seek cover from lightening --it is foolish! Nearby lightening activity is a clue and lightning bolts may precede a thunderstorm by several miles-hence "out of the blue" cliche. ALERT: Shout "lightning lightning lightening" or "Strike strike strike" to alert others--in pre-trip safety you should agree on a convention because there is NO time for discussion or questions. I have used "IN THE HOUSE NOW!!!--NO DISCUSSION" to move visitors to safety and had a bolt hit outside the door within 4 seconds. But for organized parties, rapidly shouting "LIGHTNING" is probably best. You have 5-10-15 seconds depending on how soon your recognized the sensation. This is one time crying wolf is OK. The electrical potential my build under your feet that never is dissipated via lightening discharge. That doesn't mean you weren't in danger. SHED SPREAD and SQUAT:Drop your cargo--backpacks, cameras, rock buckets, especially metal items. Take three quick steps away into a tight squat. If you are under a tree try to move into the clear. Lightening "radials" which are a source of indirect but potentially lethal shock has been measured up to 40 meters from the strike point. (photo here: ) If in a group-- spread out a practical distance from each other (10 ft? 30?) but keep in voice range. (I know your ears and eyes are covered..) You may be subsequently in a heavy down pour and need to regroup. The good news is because of lightning physics the center of potential tends to move from under the down pour. CROUCH: into a ball: feet together, hands over your ears. This helps prevent eardrum rupture. Close your eyes but know that a nearby bolt will let you look through your eyelids!--you can taste the ions in your mouth. So far as I know that part while interesting won't hurt you. Keeping your feet together tends to force a charge over the outside of the body versus up through the body via each leg. DO NOT lie down even though it seems counter intuative to get as close to the ground as possible. This posture is to minimize damage from secondary shock from radials. Different tissues conduct charges prefferentially. If you have to sacrfice something may it be your epidermis. Not to go off on more tangents but underground culverts/pipelines and metal fences can conduct lethal shocks hundreds of meters away. Lightening travels over the surface of fresh water for much longer distances than once thought.Folks a kilometer or more away have been shocked. Concrete pads usually have iron re-bar within them framing a grid but, the jury is still out on the pros and cons. I'd use one if I happened to be upon one. If, as can frequently happen in danger, a member of your party is in unresponsive e.g. standing in a puddle of water, freaks or freezes-- don't go to them but speak to them in a very authoritative voice to "come do you". Seems the subconscious regresses to a state that resonds to an authoritarian voice. So speaking as a parent or drill sergant can override the body freezing terror. Background: Proxmity to a "lightning blittzing" may be humorous to talk about afterward but, when one is near ground zero while happening is terrifying and deadly serious. Lightning has killed miners deep inside mines and could be considered another golf disease. Most know lightening conditions are generated by up drafts within thunderheads that create a difference in electrical charge within the cloud. We may not know that this acts like a magnet over the surface of the Earth pulling along a giant charge of electrons along with it. When the potential becomes critical the earth fingers up "sprites" called "stepped leaders". They resemble lightening bolts but come and go in micro seconds. Less than 10 have ever been caught on film. If the stepped leader doesn't connect with a downward leader it goes away. If it does"connect" a path is formed that allows a two way flow of electrons first up then down. It is the downward discharge that is the killer. This all takes place in under a second and to the victim it is a moot point anyway. The range of symptoms for a strike victim are many and some inebreated, dazed, in shock, in denial, or otherwise macho types-- like I was back then, may just try to "shake it off" if they seem otherwise "ok". Lightning can do things inside you that are lethal later. No matter how good one feels, immediate Emergency Room medical care is essential. Long term, one faces a myrriad of maladies including fatigue, cell death,depression and Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. A most friendly personality, Roy the Lightening Rod Ranger(Last name I knew once...speaking of memory loss) survived 7 direct strikes only to commit suicide in the throes of depression. I survived partly due to wearing heavy high-topped mud boots aka Wellingtons. Were I under similar circumstances again and had a plastic bucket I'd consider squatting in it. In my worse jolt ,I was closing a metal farm gate when the storm was in the distance. The bolt hit about 70 ft away, and the radials rode the fence line I was leaning against to close a latch on. In a "flash" I felt the most at peace I had ever felt. My wife found me quickly so I wasn't unconsious long. I reasoned I couldn't be hurt badly! Just a little numbness and ringin in my ears. I felt "fine and didn't need any doctoring" euphoric and invincible in fact--until 3am when I awoke in fever, muscle pain everywhere and passing blood. --Really don't want to do that again. It took me a couple years and obstinate mind over body to overcome my body's urge to run inside and go fetal at the hint of thunder. Keep Safe, Elton --- "Berj N. Ensanian" wrote: > > Hello Bob and Ed > > I've experienced the high electric field aorund me > during lightning storms > several times in the Appalachian mountains of > Pennsylvania - it is like > being very near a big Van de Graaf generator, and > you get concerned because you know what is coming. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From ki3u at hotmail.com Wed Jul 5 21:46:12 2006 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Wed Jul 5 21:46:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during alightning stormonMt. Antero In-Reply-To: <44AC8695.4CF9@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Is there any data to support this one-leg mushroom posture? I'm going by actual experience: several times I have been extremely close to the spot, indoors, and outdoors in the mountains, where the lightning bolt struck; twice it was within a few feet of me. From my observations, which include seeing competely unexpected effects, like a tall sharp vertical antenna, even grounded at the time, less than ten feet from me, being completely bypassed by the bolt in favor of apparently random objects around me, have had me conclude that the old saying: lightning has a mind of its own, is true as far as predictablity goes. If I sense that lightning is about to strike close to me, I'm going to get down as low as I can. I am NOT giving advice to others here. Just passing on my own view of this unpredictable phenomenon. I've done plenty of experimental soil conductivity measurements, in the mountains, over the seasons, and the notion that one can generalize a rule and say that a one-legged mushroom position will present the least attraction to lightning, while minimizing chances of differential ground currents exposure, does not make sense to me as an accurate reflection of out-there reality. When the bolt strikes, the air all around is ionized - so much for the importance of ground conductivity. The ionization distribution is going to be affected by a million things, including the wind. Maybe we can agree on this: if you become terrified, and therefore start to sweat, your skin conductivity is going to increase dramatically very quickly. Berj >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list >for rock and gem collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during >alightning stormonMt. Antero >Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 23:42:44 -0400 > >Laying down on the ground exposes you to differential shock from a >nearby lightning strike. If you contact the ground at multiple points >your body may be the path of least resistance. > >Your safest posture is a mushroom, one foot on the ground (ball of foot >perferred), and curled up, to present a rounded surface to the sky. By >presenting a single (rounded) point of contact to the earth or air, you >not only minimize your chance of being struck, but you prevent a >conduction path through your body from a nearby strike by not having two >points of contact to the earth. If you can't do one foot, keep your feet >and knees together. Think like an electron, and minimize your risk of >being ionized. > >It is going to be danged uncomfortable. It is going to be wet (you ARE >stuck out in the open!). But it is a heck of a lot better than being >fried because you could not reach a vehicle or a safe building in time, >and failed to take reasonable precautions. > >If you can hear the thunder, or if you can count to 30 between the flash >and the thunder, it is already too close, and you should be heading for >cover. > > http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/outdoors.htm > >I've met St. Elmo once, in my own backyard (the strike shortly after was >to a building across the street). I've been hit by flying debris on half >of the other four close strikes that have missed me, by between 4 and >114 feet; I'm beginning to have a serious respect of lightning. > >BTW, if you are in Boston, go to the Children's Science Museum -- their >Lightning Show, with the world's largest Van De Graf generator, is not >to be missed. And there is a great Fulgerite on display at the entrance >to the Lightning Theatre. > >Kreigh > > > > >Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 7/5/2006 7:21:09 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > > ki3u@hotmail.com writes: > > > > There is just a little bit of warning time: when these effects are >noticed, > > it is time for immediate safety procedures, if nothing else than lie >down on > > the ground. > > > > I saw a program that told me that if you crouch down and cover your ears >It > > would help make you a (less of a target) so to speak. But,.. what can >you > > really do? > > > > Also I saw somewhere that lightning affects rocks sometimes and was > > wondering if anyone has known of this and any specimens they may have. >Seems rare. > > Regard, > > Kevin > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 5 21:54:37 2006 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Wed Jul 5 21:54:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Exogenic fulgurites..was Small electrical shocks In-Reply-To: <070520061841.21627.44AC07CA00045FA30000547B216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <20060706045437.63018.qmail@web51011.mail.yahoo.com> Solid Rock originating fulgurites were recently confirmed and the term in vogue is Exogenic Fulgurites. Yes, they are rare and I belive only identified from one-- possibly two sites at present. Strands of glass hanging from nearby branches led to their ultimate identification and discovery of the pipe. Mineralization of the target rock may be a critical component of the process. Norm Lehrman, a dealer in Tekties and natural glass ,fine fellow and scholar....has a few specimens left and if you care to see some examples his link is: With my lightening history I had to pick up a few of these shards for my Pow Wow medicine bag. Elton --- pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >... I have never yet seen such a > melted/blasted patch on a rock, nor have I ever even > seen a picture of one, so I'll be pleased if someone > on the List can share one!... > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from > Paintricks@aol.com: -------------- > > ki3u@hotmail.com writes: > > > > Also I saw somewhere that lightning affects rocks > sometimes and was wondering if anyone has known of >this and any specimens they may have. Seems rare. > Regard, > Kevin > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Jul 5 22:15:35 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Jul 5 22:13:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstorm--AND Bigones References: <20060706043446.60246.qmail@web51014.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003c01c6a0bb$36304760$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> What a coincidence between this subject, and what happened yesterday on the 4th of July no less. My grandkid's home (my daughter's ex's house) was stuck by a bolt of that "out of the blue" lightning. No clouds overhead, no thunder in the distance, then ZAPPPP. The third time this house has been struck. My eldest grandson, his dad, and step-mom were in the yard when it hit. It burst the water pipes, and evidently the rebar in the slab did some conducting because the slab exploded under the living room. All appliances fried...house flooded by the bursted pipes...and the house is unliveable according to ins. agent. Their dogs were inside and appear to be ok. Gives a whole new meaning to fireworks on the 4th, doesn't it. And who says lightning never strikes twice?? Jeanette > Collecting safety should always be "on topic". Plus > fulgerites are awe inspiring to collect in the > field--provided you aren't the fused object! > From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Jul 5 22:52:45 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Jul 5 22:52:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstorm--AND Bigones Message-ID: <070620060552.21992.44ACA52C00028CB0000055E8216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Wow, that's something, Jeanette. Glad no one was hurt. Maybe their house it sitting on top of a huge vein of gold, and that's why it's so conductive and the lightning seeks it! Maybe they should purchase good lightning rods. Is their house particularly situated on a hilltop? Pete -------------- Original message from "Jeanette Wimpee" : -------------- > What a coincidence between this subject, and what happened yesterday on the > 4th of July no less. My grandkid's home (my daughter's ex's house) was > stuck by a bolt of that "out of the blue" lightning. No clouds overhead, no > thunder in the distance, then ZAPPPP. The third time this house has been > struck. My eldest grandson, his dad, and step-mom were in the yard when it > hit. It burst the water pipes, and evidently the rebar in the slab did some > conducting because the slab exploded under the living room. All appliances > fried...house flooded by the bursted pipes...and the house is unliveable > according to ins. agent. Their dogs were inside and appear to be ok. > Gives a whole new meaning to fireworks on the 4th, doesn't it. And who says > lightning never strikes twice?? > Jeanette > > > > Collecting safety should always be "on topic". Plus > > fulgerites are awe inspiring to collect in the > > field--provided you aren't the fused object! > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jul 6 05:45:54 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jul 6 05:46:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? In-Reply-To: References: <44AC6346.5243@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040607060545t7ad84b4bld630f1c03e6c1a21@mail.gmail.com> FYI: "I'm feeling lucky" will whisk you away to the 1st result page. Drew On 7/5/06, John Stockwell wrote: > > Kreigh, > > I'd already visited the website and can't find there the answers to my > questions. What's the "I'm feeling Lucky" button. Seems to me I've seen > such > on Google, but not this time. > > They can still be found on the internet yellow pages, but the last certain > date I have is 1999. > > John > > John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 6:11 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? > > > > John, > > > > Go to Google.com, type in "DJ Minerals", and press the I'm Feeling Lucky > > button. > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > John Stockwell wrote: > >> > >> Anybody out there, especially MT list members, know the answer to that > >> question? > >> > >> Who founded DJ Minerals? > >> > >> Thanks for any help. > >> > >> John > >> > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >> --- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Alpen at aol.com Thu Jul 6 06:47:06 2006 From: Alpen at aol.com (Alpen@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 6 06:47:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning storm on Mt. Antero Message-ID: <4a6.3c040ee.31de6e5a@aol.com> Here's some onfo on lightning safety if caught out in the open. I've heard many times in recent years to not lay down- it offers too much contact area with the ground. If lightning is in the immediate area, and there is no safe location nearby, stay at least 10 feet apart from other members of your group so the lightning won't travel between you if hit. Keep your feet together and sit on the ground out in the open. If you can possibly run to a vehicle or building, DO so. Sitting or crouching on the ground is not safe and should be a last resort if an enclosed building or vehicle is not available. Bob, I've experienced what you described during several different times in the high country- usually on technical climbs above timberline and there was no chance of retreating to a safe place. It definitely gets the adrenaline going. So how did things go on Antero? I was debating going there on Tuesday, but decided the weather looked too unstable for a long day. Eric Bindner In a message dated 7/5/2006 7:02:08 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: There is just a little bit of warning time: when these effects are noticed, it is time for immediate safety procedures, if nothing else than lie down on the ground. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Thu Jul 6 22:37:57 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Jul 6 10:37:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8095d184c47eecc7672cf11b8ba1da4b@lrream.com> Probably Duaine (sp) Johnson, who is probably the current owner. Lanny On Jul 5, 2006, at 5:56 PM, John Stockwell wrote: > Anybody out there, especially MT list members, know the answer to that > question? > > Who founded DJ Minerals? > > Thanks for any help. > > John > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Jul 6 10:39:04 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Jul 6 10:39:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstorm--AND Bigones In-Reply-To: <20060706043446.60246.qmail@web51014.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200607061739.k66Hd6gk019549@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi all, Thanks for all of the list postings and private e-mails. Now I know much more about this than I ever imagined! :-) I was wondering about one more thing: Is there anything that I might've done to make myself more of a "target" besides being the highest point on the mountain and having metallic tools in hand? For example, could scraping the ground (dirt and rocks) with a metal garden scratcher create more static electricity which would change the ionization around me? Or could hitting a chisel with a crack hammer or rocks with a pick disturb the ionization? In other words, will performing normal rockhounding activities make the lightning target off my body even larger? Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Mr EMan Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:35 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstorm--AND Bigones Collecting safety should always be "on topic". Plus fulgerites are awe inspiring to collect in the field--provided you aren't the fused object! This situation could have had a much sadder ending for Bob. St. Elmo's fire is not usually associated with lightning and Bob may have been near a "Stepped Leader" that never connected. Ed and Berj raised a lot of good points(static charges tend to concentrate on points such as the trailing edge of aircraft wings and radio antennas). Owing that I am a 4 time lightening shock survivor(with at least 8 near misses that I avoided largely by practicing the advice I am offering) I'll share what I know about detection and survival-- skipping the gore about body-sized bruises that looked like feathering or flowering (Lichtenberg figures), flash melted dental fillings, lifetime nerve damage, progressive memory loss, kidney and, liver failure... That is post strike and this info is to help reduce getting stuck in the first place. This assumes that you are in a field location when an electrical storm comes up and you are not within 20-30 meters from a shack or automobile/ATV. (A tin mining shack or your automobile can qualify as a Faraday cage and actually help divert the stepped leader and connecting bolt away from the inside). Larger buildings are better. Get onto rubber and away from metal parts even within a Faraday Cage. The Army undertook a study to reduce the number of deaths due to strikes on troops in the field and I concur that it works. Here is my own modification to their SOP. mine is SASSS SENSE: Beyond the audio and visual dysplay of an approaching storm, imminent strikes can be detected buy a certain sensation which usually includes the hairs on your skin standing up. This is subtle but distinct and can include a crackling in your ears. The hairs on your head may be too long to fully stand up but they impart the sensation. It is not easy to describe how it feels but it is a persistent and building sensation more than just gooseboomps. Failing that, don't argue with your inner voice/gurdian angel/inspiration or what ever you might choose to call it! It isn't "macho' to not seek cover from lightening --it is foolish! Nearby lightening activity is a clue and lightning bolts may precede a thunderstorm by several miles-hence "out of the blue" cliche. ALERT: Shout "lightning lightning lightening" or "Strike strike strike" to alert others--in pre-trip safety you should agree on a convention because there is NO time for discussion or questions. I have used "IN THE HOUSE NOW!!!--NO DISCUSSION" to move visitors to safety and had a bolt hit outside the door within 4 seconds. But for organized parties, rapidly shouting "LIGHTNING" is probably best. You have 5-10-15 seconds depending on how soon your recognized the sensation. This is one time crying wolf is OK. The electrical potential my build under your feet that never is dissipated via lightening discharge. That doesn't mean you weren't in danger. SHED SPREAD and SQUAT:Drop your cargo--backpacks, cameras, rock buckets, especially metal items. Take three quick steps away into a tight squat. If you are under a tree try to move into the clear. Lightening "radials" which are a source of indirect but potentially lethal shock has been measured up to 40 meters from the strike point. (photo here: ) If in a group-- spread out a practical distance from each other (10 ft? 30?) but keep in voice range. (I know your ears and eyes are covered..) You may be subsequently in a heavy down pour and need to regroup. The good news is because of lightning physics the center of potential tends to move from under the down pour. CROUCH: into a ball: feet together, hands over your ears. This helps prevent eardrum rupture. Close your eyes but know that a nearby bolt will let you look through your eyelids!--you can taste the ions in your mouth. So far as I know that part while interesting won't hurt you. Keeping your feet together tends to force a charge over the outside of the body versus up through the body via each leg. DO NOT lie down even though it seems counter intuative to get as close to the ground as possible. This posture is to minimize damage from secondary shock from radials. Different tissues conduct charges prefferentially. If you have to sacrfice something may it be your epidermis. Not to go off on more tangents but underground culverts/pipelines and metal fences can conduct lethal shocks hundreds of meters away. Lightening travels over the surface of fresh water for much longer distances than once thought.Folks a kilometer or more away have been shocked. Concrete pads usually have iron re-bar within them framing a grid but, the jury is still out on the pros and cons. I'd use one if I happened to be upon one. If, as can frequently happen in danger, a member of your party is in unresponsive e.g. standing in a puddle of water, freaks or freezes-- don't go to them but speak to them in a very authoritative voice to "come do you". Seems the subconscious regresses to a state that resonds to an authoritarian voice. So speaking as a parent or drill sergant can override the body freezing terror. Background: Proxmity to a "lightning blittzing" may be humorous to talk about afterward but, when one is near ground zero while happening is terrifying and deadly serious. Lightning has killed miners deep inside mines and could be considered another golf disease. Most know lightening conditions are generated by up drafts within thunderheads that create a difference in electrical charge within the cloud. We may not know that this acts like a magnet over the surface of the Earth pulling along a giant charge of electrons along with it. When the potential becomes critical the earth fingers up "sprites" called "stepped leaders". They resemble lightening bolts but come and go in micro seconds. Less than 10 have ever been caught on film. If the stepped leader doesn't connect with a downward leader it goes away. If it does"connect" a path is formed that allows a two way flow of electrons first up then down. It is the downward discharge that is the killer. This all takes place in under a second and to the victim it is a moot point anyway. The range of symptoms for a strike victim are many and some inebreated, dazed, in shock, in denial, or otherwise macho types-- like I was back then, may just try to "shake it off" if they seem otherwise "ok". Lightning can do things inside you that are lethal later. No matter how good one feels, immediate Emergency Room medical care is essential. Long term, one faces a myrriad of maladies including fatigue, cell death,depression and Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. A most friendly personality, Roy the Lightening Rod Ranger(Last name I knew once...speaking of memory loss) survived 7 direct strikes only to commit suicide in the throes of depression. I survived partly due to wearing heavy high-topped mud boots aka Wellingtons. Were I under similar circumstances again and had a plastic bucket I'd consider squatting in it. In my worse jolt ,I was closing a metal farm gate when the storm was in the distance. The bolt hit about 70 ft away, and the radials rode the fence line I was leaning against to close a latch on. In a "flash" I felt the most at peace I had ever felt. My wife found me quickly so I wasn't unconsious long. I reasoned I couldn't be hurt badly! Just a little numbness and ringin in my ears. I felt "fine and didn't need any doctoring" euphoric and invincible in fact--until 3am when I awoke in fever, muscle pain everywhere and passing blood. --Really don't want to do that again. It took me a couple years and obstinate mind over body to overcome my body's urge to run inside and go fetal at the hint of thunder. Keep Safe, Elton --- "Berj N. Ensanian" wrote: > > Hello Bob and Ed > > I've experienced the high electric field aorund me > during lightning storms > several times in the Appalachian mountains of > Pennsylvania - it is like > being very near a big Van de Graaf generator, and > you get concerned because you know what is coming. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From SHMM at sussexonline.com Thu Jul 6 10:51:26 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Thu Jul 6 10:51:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c6a124$ce577310$3d7b1540@D3JM7W21> Try Duane Johnson. I'm going WAY back in memory here, but I think that was the fellow's name. Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com > > John Stockwell wrote: >> >> Anybody out there, especially MT list members, know the answer to that >> question? >> >> Who founded DJ Minerals? >> >> Thanks for any help. >> >> John >> From kugeln at msn.com Thu Jul 6 10:55:13 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (John Stockwell) Date: Thu Jul 6 10:55:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? References: <000001c6a124$ce577310$3d7b1540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: That's right. Just found a number through net yellow pages and called to verify. DJ's still involved. Thanks for your reply. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Verbeek" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? > Try Duane Johnson. I'm going WAY back in memory here, but I think that > was > the fellow's name. > > Cheers- Earl > > ----------------------------------- > Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist > Sterling Hill Mining Museum > 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 > 973-209-7212 > shmm@sussexonline.com > > >> >> John Stockwell wrote: >>> >>> Anybody out there, especially MT list members, know the answer to that >>> question? >>> >>> Who founded DJ Minerals? >>> >>> Thanks for any help. >>> >>> John >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kugeln at msn.com Thu Jul 6 10:55:46 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (John Stockwell) Date: Thu Jul 6 10:55:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? References: <8095d184c47eecc7672cf11b8ba1da4b@lrream.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Lanny. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? > Probably Duaine (sp) Johnson, who is probably the current owner. > > Lanny > > On Jul 5, 2006, at 5:56 PM, John Stockwell wrote: > >> Anybody out there, especially MT list members, know the answer to that >> question? >> >> Who founded DJ Minerals? >> >> Thanks for any help. >> >> John >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From ki3u at hotmail.com Thu Jul 6 12:31:45 2006 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Thu Jul 6 12:31:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstorm--ANDBigones In-Reply-To: <200607061739.k66Hd6gk019549@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Bob If I had a portable UV lamp with me, I would certainly turn it OFF. Berj >From: "Bob Loeffler" Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for >rock and gem collectors" >To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors'" >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a >lightningstorm--ANDBigones >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:39:04 -0600 > >Hi all, > >Thanks for all of the list postings and private e-mails. Now I know much >more about this than I ever imagined! :-) > >I was wondering about one more thing: Is there anything that I might've >done to make myself more of a "target" besides being the highest point on >the mountain and having metallic tools in hand? For example, could >scraping >the ground (dirt and rocks) with a metal garden scratcher create more >static >electricity which would change the ionization around me? Or could hitting >a >chisel with a crack hammer or rocks with a pick disturb the ionization? In >other words, will performing normal rockhounding activities make the >lightning target off my body even larger? > >Thanks, > >Bob > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Mr EMan >Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:35 PM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a >lightningstorm--AND Bigones > >Collecting safety should always be "on topic". Plus >fulgerites are awe inspiring to collect in the >field--provided you aren't the fused object! > >This situation could have had a much sadder ending for >Bob. St. Elmo's fire is not usually associated with >lightning and Bob may have been near a "Stepped >Leader" that never connected. Ed and Berj raised a >lot of good points(static charges tend to concentrate >on points such as the trailing edge of aircraft wings >and radio antennas). > >Owing that I am a 4 time lightening shock >survivor(with at least 8 near misses that I avoided >largely by practicing the advice I am offering) I'll >share what I know about detection and survival-- >skipping the gore about body-sized bruises that looked >like feathering or flowering (Lichtenberg figures), >flash melted dental fillings, lifetime nerve damage, >progressive memory loss, kidney and, liver failure... >That is post strike and this info is to help reduce >getting stuck in the first place. > >This assumes that you are in a field location when an >electrical storm comes up and you are not within 20-30 >meters from a shack or automobile/ATV. (A tin mining >shack or your automobile can qualify as a Faraday cage >and actually help divert the stepped leader and >connecting bolt away from the inside). Larger >buildings are better. Get onto rubber and away from >metal parts even within a Faraday Cage. > >The Army undertook a study to reduce the number of >deaths due to strikes on troops in the field and I >concur that it works. Here is my own modification to >their SOP. mine is SASSS > >SENSE: Beyond the audio and visual dysplay of an >approaching storm, imminent strikes can be detected >buy a certain sensation which usually includes the >hairs on your skin standing up. This is subtle but >distinct and can include a crackling in your ears. The >hairs on your head may be too long to fully stand up >but they impart the sensation. It is not easy to >describe how it feels but it is a persistent and >building sensation more than just gooseboomps. Failing >that, don't argue with your inner voice/gurdian >angel/inspiration or what ever you might choose to >call it! It isn't "macho' to not seek cover from >lightening --it is foolish! > >Nearby lightening activity is a clue and lightning >bolts may precede a thunderstorm by several >miles-hence "out of the blue" cliche. > >ALERT: Shout "lightning lightning lightening" or >"Strike strike strike" to alert others--in pre-trip >safety you should agree on a convention because there >is NO time for discussion or questions. I have used >"IN THE HOUSE NOW!!!--NO DISCUSSION" to move visitors >to safety and had a bolt hit outside the door within 4 >seconds. But for organized parties, rapidly shouting >"LIGHTNING" is probably best. > >You have 5-10-15 seconds depending on how soon your >recognized the sensation. This is one time crying wolf >is OK. The electrical potential my build under your >feet that never is dissipated via lightening >discharge. That doesn't mean you weren't in danger. > >SHED SPREAD and SQUAT:Drop your cargo--backpacks, >cameras, rock buckets, especially metal items. Take >three quick steps away into a tight squat. If you are >under a tree try to move into the clear. Lightening >"radials" which are a source of indirect but >potentially lethal shock has been measured up to 40 >meters from the strike point. (photo here: > >) If in a group-- spread out a practical distance >from each other (10 ft? 30?) but keep in voice range. >(I know your ears and eyes are covered..) You may be >subsequently in a heavy down pour and need to regroup. > The good news is because of lightning physics the >center of potential tends to move from under the down >pour. > >CROUCH: into a ball: feet together, hands over your >ears. This helps prevent eardrum rupture. Close your >eyes but know that a nearby bolt will let you look >through your eyelids!--you can taste the ions in your >mouth. So far as I know that part while interesting >won't hurt you. Keeping your feet together tends to >force a charge over the outside of the body versus up >through the body via each leg. > >DO NOT lie down even though it seems counter intuative >to get as close to the ground as possible. This >posture is to minimize damage from secondary shock >from radials. Different tissues conduct charges >prefferentially. If you have to sacrfice something may >it be your epidermis. > >Not to go off on more tangents but underground >culverts/pipelines and metal fences can conduct lethal >shocks hundreds of meters away. Lightening travels >over the surface of fresh water for much longer >distances than once thought.Folks a kilometer or more >away have been shocked. Concrete pads usually have >iron re-bar within them framing a grid but, the jury >is still out on the pros and cons. I'd use one if I >happened to be upon one. > > >If, as can frequently happen in danger, a member of >your party is in unresponsive e.g. standing in a >puddle of water, freaks or freezes-- don't go to them >but speak to them in a very authoritative voice to >"come do you". Seems the subconscious regresses to a >state that resonds to an authoritarian voice. So >speaking as a parent or drill sergant can override the >body freezing terror. > >Background: Proxmity to a "lightning blittzing" may >be humorous to talk about afterward but, when one is >near ground zero while happening is terrifying and >deadly serious. Lightning has killed miners deep >inside mines and could be considered another golf >disease. > >Most know lightening conditions are generated by up >drafts within thunderheads that create a difference in >electrical charge within the cloud. We may not know >that this acts like a magnet over the surface of the >Earth pulling along a giant charge of electrons along >with it. When the potential becomes critical the earth >fingers up "sprites" called "stepped leaders". They >resemble lightening bolts but come and go in micro >seconds. Less than 10 have ever been caught on film. >If the stepped leader doesn't connect with a downward >leader it goes away. If it does"connect" a path is >formed that allows a two way flow of electrons first >up then down. It is the downward discharge that is the >killer. This all takes place in under a second and to >the victim it is a moot point anyway. > >The range of symptoms for a strike victim are many and >some inebreated, dazed, in shock, in denial, or >otherwise macho types-- like I was back then, may just >try to "shake it off" if they seem otherwise "ok". >Lightning can do things inside you that are lethal >later. No matter how good one feels, immediate >Emergency Room medical care is essential. Long term, >one faces a myrriad of maladies including fatigue, >cell death,depression and Post Traumatic Stress >Syndrome. A most friendly personality, Roy the >Lightening Rod Ranger(Last name I knew once...speaking >of memory loss) survived 7 direct strikes only to >commit suicide in the throes of depression. > >I survived partly due to wearing heavy high-topped mud >boots aka Wellingtons. Were I under similar >circumstances again and had a plastic bucket I'd >consider squatting in it. > >In my worse jolt ,I was closing a metal farm gate when >the storm was in the distance. The bolt hit about 70 >ft away, and the radials rode the fence line I was >leaning against to close a latch on. In a "flash" I >felt the most at peace I had ever felt. My wife found >me quickly so I wasn't unconsious long. I reasoned I >couldn't be hurt badly! Just a little numbness and >ringin in my ears. I felt "fine and didn't need any >doctoring" euphoric and invincible in fact--until 3am >when I awoke in fever, muscle pain everywhere and >passing blood. --Really don't want to do that again. > >It took me a couple years and obstinate mind over body >to overcome my body's urge to run inside and go fetal >at the hint of thunder. > >Keep Safe, >Elton > > > >--- "Berj N. Ensanian" wrote: > > > > > Hello Bob and Ed > > > > I've experienced the high electric field aorund me > > during lightning storms > > several times in the Appalachian mountains of > > Pennsylvania - it is like > > being very near a big Van de Graaf generator, and > > you get concerned because you know what is coming. > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dpperreau at videotron.ca Thu Jul 6 13:19:49 2006 From: dpperreau at videotron.ca (Perreau, Denis Pierre) Date: Thu Jul 6 13:19:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Merci. Je vais y voir le + t?t possible. Denis Pierre Perreau Le Club de min?ralogie de Qu?bec www.LeCMQ.org T?l. : 418 624 8934 dpperreau@videotron.ca Note : Tous les courriels entrants et sortants sont trait?s ? l'aide de Norton AntiVirus 2006. -----Message d'origine----- De : rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] De la part de John Stockwell Envoy? : 6 juillet 2006 13:56 ? : Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Objet : Re: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? Thanks, Lanny. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lanny" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Does DJ Minerals in Butte Still Exist? > Probably Duaine (sp) Johnson, who is probably the current owner. > > Lanny > > On Jul 5, 2006, at 5:56 PM, John Stockwell wrote: > >> Anybody out there, especially MT list members, know the answer to >> that >> question? >> >> Who founded DJ Minerals? >> >> Thanks for any help. >> >> John >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Jul 6 13:55:44 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (geenet2@mchsi.com) Date: Thu Jul 6 13:55:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstorm--AND Bigones Message-ID: <070620062055.1288.44AD78CF000DC9C300000508219791299503010CD2079C080C03BFCD9B0A020A0A09@mchsi.com> There is a lot of sandy "ironstone" in Baldwin county Alabama...nope, no gold. And the house is actually lower than the house next door. But it is the last house next to a wooded lot. Maybe the tall trees around have something to do with it. My EX son-in-law actually spent money on preventing something in the future??? LOL! I'll mention the lightning rods. After three strikes, sounds like a great idea. Jeanette From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jul 6 15:32:40 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jul 6 15:29:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstorm--AND Bigones References: <20060706043446.60246.qmail@web51014.mail.yahoo.com> <003c01c6a0bb$36304760$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <44AD8ECF.2CDB@Tomaszewski.net> Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Gives a whole new meaning to fireworks on the 4th, doesn't it. And who says > lightning never strikes twice?? Henny Youngman said it, "Lightning never strikes the same place twice, because after the first time the place isn't there anymore". From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jul 6 16:23:23 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jul 6 16:20:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during alightning stormonMt. Antero References: Message-ID: <44AD9AAD.5086@Tomaszewski.net> Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > Is there any data to support this one-leg mushroom posture? emedicine.com's discussion of lightning injuries notes the body is an excellent conductor compared to the ground, and the ground current flowing up one leg and down the other appears to account for the high mortality (30%) of lightning victims with leg burns. Reducing the distance between the feet minimizes the risk from a ground current flowing thru the legs. This advice is almost universal in lightning protection. Having a single point of contact with the ground effectively eliminates it. > Maybe we can agree on this: if you become terrified, and therefore > start to sweat, your skin conductivity is going to increase > dramatically very quickly. Electric current normally travels along the surface of a conductor. Most lightning is conducted on the surface of the body, vaporizing moisture in/on the skin, and often blasting apart clothes and shoes. This flashover actually produces less damage than when the current flows thru the body. Kreigh From ki3u at hotmail.com Thu Jul 6 20:39:00 2006 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Thu Jul 6 20:39:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during alightningstormonMt. Antero In-Reply-To: <44AD9AAD.5086@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Well I can't find anything that is completely unequivocal on the subject, and actually I didn't expect to. Also I come across the phrase "...than previously thought." that one finds not-infrequently in ongoing research reports. This: http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/ocda/thunder4.htm says this: " In a forest, seek shelter in a low area under a thick growth of small trees. " " If you are caught in a level field or prairie far from shelter and if you feel your hair stand on end, lightning may be about to strike you. Drop to your knees and bend forward, putting you hands on your knees. Do not lie flat on the ground. " sic Dropping to your knees makes for more ground contact span than crouching on two feet close together. The hands-one-the-knees part surprises me, because, it seems to me, that would increase the chances for a current loop through the heart. Much of the advice on lightning safety seems useless to the rockhound in the deep field, as it invariably comes down to: get inside a large lightning-protected structure. Perhaps there is somewhere a collection of folk-tales on lightning. It would be interesting to know what people have to say, who live in high radon areas, or where radioactive mineral concentrations are found - again I'm thinking of effect on air ionization. If there is statistically significant data, not theory, but actual witness data, that indicates that out in the deep field, one particular body posture (other than reducing one's vertical exposure) is safer than another, when a strike is imminent, I have not yet seen it. Berj >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list >for rock and gem collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during >alightningstormonMt. Antero >Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:23:23 -0400 > >Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > Is there any data to support this one-leg mushroom posture? > >emedicine.com's discussion of lightning injuries notes the body is an >excellent conductor compared to the ground, and the ground current >flowing up one leg and down the other appears to account for the high >mortality (30%) of lightning victims with leg burns. > >Reducing the distance between the feet minimizes the risk from a ground >current flowing thru the legs. This advice is almost universal in >lightning protection. > >Having a single point of contact with the ground effectively eliminates >it. > > > Maybe we can agree on this: if you become terrified, and therefore > > start to sweat, your skin conductivity is going to increase > > dramatically very quickly. > >Electric current normally travels along the surface of a conductor. Most >lightning is conducted on the surface of the body, vaporizing moisture >in/on the skin, and often blasting apart clothes and shoes. This >flashover actually produces less damage than when the current flows thru >the body. > >Kreigh From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jul 7 06:25:06 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jul 7 06:25:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during alightningstormonMt. Antero In-Reply-To: References: <44AD9AAD.5086@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: It seems to me that the voltage differentials are so high just before a lightning strike that any minor local ionization would be like a match flame in a forest fire. They've actually found that lightning bolts generate gamma radiation from the very high potentials and temperatures. BK On 7/6/06, Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > Well I can't find anything that is completely unequivocal on the subject, > and actually I didn't expect to. Also I come across the phrase "...than > previously thought." that one finds not-infrequently in ongoing research > reports. > > This: > > http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/ocda/thunder4.htm > > says this: > > " In a forest, seek shelter in a low area under a thick growth of small > trees. " > > " If you are caught in a level field or prairie far from shelter and if > you > feel your hair stand on end, lightning may be about to strike you. Drop to > your knees and bend forward, putting you hands on your knees. Do not lie > flat on the ground. " sic > > Dropping to your knees makes for more ground contact span than crouching > on > two feet close together. The hands-one-the-knees part surprises me, > because, > it seems to me, that would increase the chances for a current loop through > the heart. > > Much of the advice on lightning safety seems useless to the rockhound in > the > deep field, as it invariably comes down to: get inside a large > lightning-protected structure. > > Perhaps there is somewhere a collection of folk-tales on lightning. It > would > be interesting to know what people have to say, who live in high radon > areas, or where radioactive mineral concentrations are found - again I'm > thinking of effect on air ionization. > > If there is statistically significant data, not theory, but actual witness > data, that indicates that out in the deep field, one particular body > posture > (other than reducing one's vertical exposure) is safer than another, when > a > strike is imminent, I have not yet seen it. > > Berj > > > >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing > list > >for rock and gem collectors" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during > >alightningstormonMt. Antero > >Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:23:23 -0400 > > > >Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > Is there any data to support this one-leg mushroom posture? > > > >emedicine.com's discussion of lightning injuries notes the body is an > >excellent conductor compared to the ground, and the ground current > >flowing up one leg and down the other appears to account for the high > >mortality (30%) of lightning victims with leg burns. > > > >Reducing the distance between the feet minimizes the risk from a ground > >current flowing thru the legs. This advice is almost universal in > >lightning protection. > > > >Having a single point of contact with the ground effectively eliminates > >it. > > > > > Maybe we can agree on this: if you become terrified, and therefore > > > start to sweat, your skin conductivity is going to increase > > > dramatically very quickly. > > > >Electric current normally travels along the surface of a conductor. Most > >lightning is conducted on the surface of the body, vaporizing moisture > >in/on the skin, and often blasting apart clothes and shoes. This > >flashover actually produces less damage than when the current flows thru > >the body. > > > >Kreigh > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ki3u at hotmail.com Fri Jul 7 08:42:14 2006 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Fri Jul 7 08:42:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during alightningstormonMt.Antero In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well the ionization that I experienced was not what I would call minor: my entire body felt electrified, with a rapidly increasing sensation that things were dangerously escalating. Everything around also looks different somehow - hard to describe. A feeling that I was immersed in a sea of intensifying imminently-explosive electricity. And then the strike. During which I experienced what Elton mentioned earlier: seeing the scene through closed eyes. And, for what it's worth, although I won't explain more, but just mention this: seeing also through the cabin walls. Seemingly minor ionization pockets can have dramatic effects on plasma behaviour - Tesla descibed some of these effects in detail in his earlier 19th century papers. You can do a simple experiment to get an idea. If you have an induction coil or other little continuous spark generator, bring a small flame near the spark, from a candle or lighter, and watch what happens. If possible, try it again, but with a radioactive mineral, or UV lamp involved. Lacking an induction coil, you can still do the experiment, but at a very reduced scale with two lighters, at least one of which uses a piezo-electric ignitor. Start a flame with one of the lighters. Then start clicking the piezo lighter as you bring it near the flame. You'll have to observe closely to separate air pressure effects from presumed ionization effects, the induction coil experience being almost necessary to tell, and it will work better with some lighters than with others. I've done many conductivity measurements of earth-soil, and the human body - there is great variation from day to day, and even hour to hour, depending on circumstances, and the enormous number of involved variables makes it very difficult to generalize. But from my experience it is incorrect to assume that the body is always a better conductor than the ground it is standing on - it can be the opposite. I've also seen, from bio-electric field measurements, that even very minor wounds, say a superficial cut on the lower leg with some dried blood over it, or a discolored sore spot, can greatly affect the bio-electric field around much of that area of the body, well beyond the area of the wound. I would imagine that this could affect how a leg reacts to close lightning electricity. Again, I am going by experiences of several times being extremely close to lightning strikes - I've seen a bolt strike the top corner of a short city brick building, by far much less tall than the building right next to it, the strike point exploding, and flying bricks hitting the pedestrians on the street: this happening fifty feet from me. My instict always has had me get down low as much as I can when I knew things were about to happen; but I do not give advice to others on what to do. And I believe that the body is not a passive participant in lightning encounters, but by virtue of its own complex and dynamic bio-electric field, the living body is a dynamic electromagnetic participant in the close lightning encounter. And I think this is probably even more so when you are out in the deep field with few, if any, artificial structures around. Twice during these too-close encounters, I noticed that the boom seemed to me to be displaced from the strike-point, and I mentioned earlier that I thought that that perhaps relates to the 1908 Tunguska ground-zero peculiarity. Which probably also relates to the fact that at Alamogordo, less than 100 feet from the center of the first atomic bomb explosion, considerable portions of the base of the tower and the rods in its concrete, remained intact. Berj >From: "J Bryan Kramer" Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list >for rock and gem collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during >alightningstormonMt.Antero >Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:25:06 -0400 > >It seems to me that the voltage differentials are so high just before a >lightning strike that any minor local ionization would be like a match >flame >in a forest fire. They've actually found that lightning bolts generate >gamma >radiation from the very high potentials and temperatures. > >BK > >On 7/6/06, Berj N. Ensanian wrote: >> >> >>Well I can't find anything that is completely unequivocal on the subject, >>and actually I didn't expect to. Also I come across the phrase "...than >>previously thought." that one finds not-infrequently in ongoing research >>reports. >> >>This: >> >>http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/ocda/thunder4.htm >> >>says this: >> >>" In a forest, seek shelter in a low area under a thick growth of small >>trees. " >> >>" If you are caught in a level field or prairie far from shelter and if >>you >>feel your hair stand on end, lightning may be about to strike you. Drop to >>your knees and bend forward, putting you hands on your knees. Do not lie >>flat on the ground. " sic >> >>Dropping to your knees makes for more ground contact span than crouching >>on >>two feet close together. The hands-one-the-knees part surprises me, >>because, >>it seems to me, that would increase the chances for a current loop through >>the heart. >> >>Much of the advice on lightning safety seems useless to the rockhound in >>the >>deep field, as it invariably comes down to: get inside a large >>lightning-protected structure. >> >>Perhaps there is somewhere a collection of folk-tales on lightning. It >>would >>be interesting to know what people have to say, who live in high radon >>areas, or where radioactive mineral concentrations are found - again I'm >>thinking of effect on air ionization. >> >>If there is statistically significant data, not theory, but actual witness >>data, that indicates that out in the deep field, one particular body >>posture >>(other than reducing one's vertical exposure) is safer than another, when >>a >>strike is imminent, I have not yet seen it. >> >>Berj >> >> >> >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing >>list >> >for rock and gem collectors" >> >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> >collectors" >> >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during >> >alightningstormonMt. Antero >> >Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:23:23 -0400 >> > >> >Berj N. Ensanian wrote: >> > > >> > > Is there any data to support this one-leg mushroom posture? >> > >> >emedicine.com's discussion of lightning injuries notes the body is an >> >excellent conductor compared to the ground, and the ground current >> >flowing up one leg and down the other appears to account for the high >> >mortality (30%) of lightning victims with leg burns. >> > >> >Reducing the distance between the feet minimizes the risk from a ground >> >current flowing thru the legs. This advice is almost universal in >> >lightning protection. >> > >> >Having a single point of contact with the ground effectively eliminates >> >it. >> > >> > > Maybe we can agree on this: if you become terrified, and therefore >> > > start to sweat, your skin conductivity is going to increase >> > > dramatically very quickly. >> > >> >Electric current normally travels along the surface of a conductor. Most >> >lightning is conducted on the surface of the body, vaporizing moisture >> >in/on the skin, and often blasting apart clothes and shoes. This >> >flashover actually produces less damage than when the current flows thru >> >the body. >> > >> >Kreigh >> From kadok at infowest.com Fri Jul 7 09:32:08 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Jul 7 09:47:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks duringalightningstormonMt.Antero In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000901c6a1e2$e3e64e40$0200a8c0@kadok> Seeing through the cabin walls! Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Yet I "saw" a lightning strike (previously mentioned) through both an outer and an inner wall of my house! Margaret >>Well the ionization that I experienced was not what I would call minor: my Message-ID: Hello Margaret Well that's why I just mentioned it, and let go further explanations - I don't have any, although I'd think that the first response of never-been-there theorizers would be that one is just having visual memories triggered in the brain. That could well be possible, but I don't think that's what happened. >From a base of physics and bio-physics, I could think of a general explanation, but it would necessitate some new views of lightning bolts at their terminals, that might be hard to swallow. As I mentioned, I think the living body is a dynamic electromagnetic participant in the close lightning encounter: for me that is the key to survival out in the deep field. You cannot have lived in the forest for years like I have, finding all the rare things, like skulls (it's very rare to find intact animal skulls in the woods), and yet not find, or rarely ever find a dead animal body that obviously met death by lightning strike. So you have to wonder: do the animals have some instinctive safety systems? I know that as the imminent lightning approaches, the birds are still flying around, at moderate airspeed, as if searching for something - I wonder, if instead of trying to avoid wind-shear areas, are they seeking out pockets of a certain ionization level? I don't know. But I just wonder. Berj >From: "Margaret Malm" Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for >rock and gem collectors" >To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors'" >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Small electrical >shocksduringalightningstormonMt.Antero >Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:32:08 -0600 > > >Seeing through the cabin walls! Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? >Yet I "saw" a lightning strike (previously mentioned) through both an outer >and an inner wall of my house! > >Margaret > > > >>Well the ionization that I experienced was not what I would call minor: >my > > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Jul 7 10:53:13 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Jul 7 10:53:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks ADMIN In-Reply-To: References: <000901c6a1e2$e3e64e40$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060707074514.040e40d0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Hi List, This topic has produced some great humor and interesting experiences, ideas and questions, but I think it's time we got back to rocks. Aloha, Kitty From lanny at lrream.com Fri Jul 7 23:33:21 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Jul 7 11:33:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water fed Grinders In-Reply-To: <22706742.1152139077501.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <22706742.1152139077501.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hi Cliff, Try Granite City Tool (www.granitecitytool.com), Braxton Bragg (www.braxton-bragg.com) or The Diamond Tool Store (www.diamondtoolstore.com). They all have pneumatic angle grinders with water feed, as well as supplies. Don't know about the quality of the two you list, but I see that most of the stone polishing and sculpting tool suppliers mostly sell more powerful tools (16 cfm at 90 psi compared to 8 cfm at 90 psi for the two you are looking at). Regards, Lanny On Jul 5, 2006, at 3:37 PM, Cliff Jackson wrote: > List > > I am looking to purchase a water fed grinder. As I have a good > compresurer I am looking at air drive. My choices, so far, are a > Little Blue Baby or a Silent Green. Any input, suggestions or offers > of used equipment. > > Cliff Jackson > Las Vegas > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From ROCKCURRIER at cs.com Fri Jul 7 13:39:14 2006 From: ROCKCURRIER at cs.com (ROCKCURRIER@cs.com) Date: Fri Jul 7 13:39:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lightning strike Message-ID: <1EC426B3.2914B621.3AEB17FB@cs.com> I new a collector/dealer who lived near Lake George, Colorado and though his specialty was collecting amazonite, would sometimes collect on Mt. Antero. He told a story about collecting once on Mt. Antero and he noticed that his rock hammer started to "sing". He would raise it a bit and the pitch of the singing would get a bit higher. He had two rock hammers and he found that by standing and raising and lowering his rock hammers he could "make music". I had always heard stories about the amazing lightning storms on the mountain and how people had to run for their lives down boulder strew fields to get away from danger but thought that this story was just too far over the edge to be believable. For myself, a singing rock hammer up on that mountain would be enough to raise the hair on my head static electricity or not. Rock From tim at orerockon.com Fri Jul 7 14:35:40 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jul 7 14:36:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water fed Grinders In-Reply-To: References: <22706742.1152139077501.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060707142943.0331e828@orerockon.com> I thought he was looking for a stationary grinder. If it is an angle grinder, there is a model specifically for lapidary applications, the Barranca pneumatic wet polisher system. I have one and it works as advertised. With the others, well, who knows? Unless you know someone who uses them for lapidary, I would be wary. http://www.barrancadiamond.com/lap/htl_00.html At 11:33 PM 7/7/2006, you wrote: >Hi Cliff, > >Try Granite City Tool (www.granitecitytool.com), Braxton Bragg >(www.braxton-bragg.com) or The Diamond Tool Store >(www.diamondtoolstore.com). They all have pneumatic angle grinders >with water feed, as well as supplies. Don't know about the quality >of the two you list, but I see that most of the stone polishing and >sculpting tool suppliers mostly sell more powerful tools (16 cfm at >90 psi compared to 8 cfm at 90 psi for the two you are looking at). > >Regards, > >Lanny > >On Jul 5, 2006, at 3:37 PM, Cliff Jackson wrote: > >>List >> >>I am looking to purchase a water fed grinder. As I have a good >>compresurer I am looking at air drive. My choices, so far, are a >>Little Blue Baby or a Silent Green. Any input, suggestions or >>offers of used equipment. >> >>Cliff Jackson >>Las Vegas Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 7 15:21:39 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 7 15:19:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks duringalightningstormonMt.Antero References: <000901c6a1e2$e3e64e40$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <44AEDDE7.3802@Tomaszewski.net> It may be due to the strong magnetic field of the lightning strike converting axions to photons. There was a short article in this month's Scientific American about seeing thru walls by converting photons to axions with a strong magnetic field, and then reconverting the axions to photons on the other side of the wall with another field. Kreigh Margaret Malm wrote: > > Seeing through the cabin walls! Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? > Yet I "saw" a lightning strike (previously mentioned) through both an outer > and an inner wall of my house! > > Margaret > > >>Well the ionization that I experienced was not what I would call minor: my > > Message-ID: <44AEE844.60ED@Tomaszewski.net> Berj, Caught in the open, we want to reduce our chance of imitating a lightning rod. We don't want to be tall. We want to be rounded instead of pointed. We want to be under safe cover, and a rounded clump of dense trees may be the safer than a small object (i.e., you) in the open, because it is less sharp at a bigger scale. We also don't want to be next to anything tall, or sharp, or especially conductive, that might attract a lightning strike. And if we don't have a choice, we want to minimize the effects of a ground current from a nearby strike. We want a minimal footprint, with contact point(s) as close together as possible. We want knees together to short circuit the path from the feet to the body. We want to avoid a path to the heart or brain, so keep hands off the lower body. And we want to spread out so that if lightning does hit, some of us will still be around to help those who were too close. Kreigh Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > Well I can't find anything that is completely unequivocal on the subject, > and actually I didn't expect to. Also I come across the phrase "...than > previously thought." that one finds not-infrequently in ongoing research > reports. > > This: > > http://www.co.honolulu.hi.us/ocda/thunder4.htm > > says this: > > " In a forest, seek shelter in a low area under a thick growth of small > trees. " > > " If you are caught in a level field or prairie far from shelter and if you > feel your hair stand on end, lightning may be about to strike you. Drop to > your knees and bend forward, putting you hands on your knees. Do not lie > flat on the ground. " sic > > Dropping to your knees makes for more ground contact span than crouching on > two feet close together. The hands-one-the-knees part surprises me, because, > it seems to me, that would increase the chances for a current loop through > the heart. > > Much of the advice on lightning safety seems useless to the rockhound in the > deep field, as it invariably comes down to: get inside a large > lightning-protected structure. > > Perhaps there is somewhere a collection of folk-tales on lightning. It would > be interesting to know what people have to say, who live in high radon > areas, or where radioactive mineral concentrations are found - again I'm > thinking of effect on air ionization. > > If there is statistically significant data, not theory, but actual witness > data, that indicates that out in the deep field, one particular body posture > (other than reducing one's vertical exposure) is safer than another, when a > strike is imminent, I have not yet seen it. > > Berj > > >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list > >for rock and gem collectors" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during > >alightningstormonMt. Antero > >Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:23:23 -0400 > > > >Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > > > > Is there any data to support this one-leg mushroom posture? > > > >emedicine.com's discussion of lightning injuries notes the body is an > >excellent conductor compared to the ground, and the ground current > >flowing up one leg and down the other appears to account for the high > >mortality (30%) of lightning victims with leg burns. > > > >Reducing the distance between the feet minimizes the risk from a ground > >current flowing thru the legs. This advice is almost universal in > >lightning protection. > > > >Having a single point of contact with the ground effectively eliminates > >it. > > > > > Maybe we can agree on this: if you become terrified, and therefore > > > start to sweat, your skin conductivity is going to increase > > > dramatically very quickly. > > > >Electric current normally travels along the surface of a conductor. Most > >lightning is conducted on the surface of the body, vaporizing moisture > >in/on the skin, and often blasting apart clothes and shoes. This > >flashover actually produces less damage than when the current flows thru > >the body. > > > >Kreigh From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Jul 7 17:14:40 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Jul 7 17:18:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip Report - Mica MT, ID References: <44AEE844.60ED@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <003001c6a223$896fd300$0300a8c0@Notebook> Julie and I had the good fortune to meet up with a few list members at Mica Mountain, near Deary, Idaho on Saturday 6/24. We arrived about 12:30, after missing the turn-off, and found said members waiting for us at the entrance to the mine. Don Halderman, a geology major at the University of Idaho in Moscow had arranged this trip. Thanks Don! Owen Kramer had traveled from Richland, WA to join us. Nice to meet you Owen. Hope you found some fun stuff. We were also joined by Lanny Ream, an awfully unassuming guy considering we deem him one of the gods of rockhounding. There was a lot more discussion than collecting, but we did pick up a bag of small schorl tourmaline, some fun muscovite books, unimpressive feldspar and some handsome quartzite yard rock. But the huge beryl crystal eluded us in spite of our meager efforts. The others could tell you a lot more about the geology of the area than I can. But it was a hoot to put faces on folks that we have been corresponding with for a while. We expect to see Don again as we're planning a trip to Fossil Bowl near Clarkia, ID soon. Julie and I also expect to visit Calvert Hill/Crystal Park/etc., Montana at the end of the month. Hopefully, this will generate a more exciting trip report. Anyone care to join us? John From rockhounds at adelphia.net Fri Jul 7 20:22:55 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Fri Jul 7 20:18:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip Report - Mica MT, ID In-Reply-To: <003001c6a223$896fd300$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <000401c6a23d$cea34870$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> John I and my wife would be interested in the trip if we are available. We were in the Virgin Valley seeking opal on the 24th. We should have been with you on the Mica trip considering the results of the opal "dig" Thanks for the report and the invitation. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Siebel Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 5:15 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip Report - Mica MT, ID Julie and I had the good fortune to meet up with a few list members at Mica Mountain, near Deary, Idaho on Saturday 6/24. We arrived about 12:30, after missing the turn-off, and found said members waiting for us at the entrance to the mine. Don Halderman, a geology major at the University of Idaho in Moscow had arranged this trip. Thanks Don! Owen Kramer had traveled from Richland, WA to join us. Nice to meet you Owen. Hope you found some fun stuff. We were also joined by Lanny Ream, an awfully unassuming guy considering we deem him one of the gods of rockhounding. There was a lot more discussion than collecting, but we did pick up a bag of small schorl tourmaline, some fun muscovite books, unimpressive feldspar and some handsome quartzite yard rock. But the huge beryl crystal eluded us in spite of our meager efforts. The others could tell you a lot more about the geology of the area than I can. But it was a hoot to put faces on folks that we have been corresponding with for a while. We expect to see Don again as we're planning a trip to Fossil Bowl near Clarkia, ID soon. Julie and I also expect to visit Calvert Hill/Crystal Park/etc., Montana at the end of the month. Hopefully, this will generate a more exciting trip report. Anyone care to join us? John _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jlkelly1066 at iglide.net Fri Jul 7 20:59:38 2006 From: jlkelly1066 at iglide.net (JL Kelly) Date: Fri Jul 7 20:57:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thank you Kitty Message-ID: <004401c6a242$f083ab60$6ff51840@karol81uibmm4x> Lightning can strike over and over and over again, but I agree, this subject has been "struck" to death. Let's get on with the world. Thanks, Kelly --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Jul 7 21:50:25 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Jul 7 21:47:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip Report - Mica MT, ID In-Reply-To: <000401c6a23d$cea34870$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> References: <000401c6a23d$cea34870$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: <44AF3991.7090609@verizon.net> Kelly Hanson wrote: > John > I and my wife would be interested in the trip if we are available. We were > in the Virgin Valley seeking opal on the 24th. We should have been with you > on the Mica trip considering the results of the opal "dig" > Thanks for the report and the invitation. > Kelly Howdy, Let me interject here--which trip? The Fossil Bowl or the Montana trip? I haven't announced anything on the list yet, because we haven't firmed a date, but the Fossil Bowl is fun for the whole family. It is a privately owned fee site just off the highway near Clarkia ID, and I'm not sure of the fee but it's about $7 or $8 for the day. The area was a large lake about 15 MYA, when this area had a climate somewhat like Florida. The silty clay bottom provided a cool anoxic environment for leaves, seeds, and occasional fish and coprolites to be well preserved. You need a thin knife and some gloves, and you can pry the finely laminated layers apart. The question is not whether you will find anything--you can't NOT find anything--it's a question of which species and how perfectly preserved the leaves are. Fish are pretty rare, I'm told, but when we've been there on school field trips, we've always found some really nicely preserved leaves from a number of species. Some of them can actually be peeled off the matrix and pressed between sheets of glass, though I've never tried it and you would probably ruin a lot of them trying. Apparently our resident paleobotanist has recovered DNA from one gray-colored strata where the leaves are black, but I don't know whatever came of that experiment. Also, the clay must be dried slowly--put in a cool place on damp newspaper is one suggestion--or else your fossils might crack. I think the only reason this place hasn't been dug out is because it is so far from the bulk of the population, otherwise you'd have collectors mobbing the place. Here are some websites that deal with these fossils and can help people ID them: http://www.mines.uidaho.edu/~tertiary/ http://www.beacon-christian.org/fossilfinds.htm Again, we don't have a firm date yet, but we'll pass it on when we decide. Mica Mountain: I would say most of all, it was a pleasant day out. The weather was bright, just a little hot, but after this winter we shouldn't complain. It was nice to meet list folks and chat. Mostly I explored, looking at parts of the site I've never seen before. I can report that there isn't much there I haven't reported previously, except some peripheral piles with large quantities of very white feldspar, which is great for research but not collectible. We looked at the mother lode of large black tourmalines in matrix, which again, were unfortunately massive and would make great yard or floor specimens, but wouldn't satisfy a crystal collector. The Siebels' dogs had some fun, that's for sure, and it really is a pretty locality and I took some nice photos. Owen found at least one nice small mica crystal in matrix, by which I mean a well formed pseudohexagonal shape with some length to it as well, perhaps 1/4 to 1/2 long. As far as larger books, we found plenty of mica sheets in larger form, but not as cleanly bounded by crystal sides. I think the biggest payoff are the small but well-formed tourmalines in crumbly schist--easy to get, and plenty. The challenge is simply finding one as big as you can get, intact, and keeping it intact. It's a fun place to collect if you're in the area, and it's in Forest Service boundary so you could camp there, or nearby, if you like. Best, Don P.S. Hansons, sorry Virgin Valley was a bust for you--now that's one place I'd imagine you'd be surrounded by material. From ajs at frii.com Fri Jul 7 23:51:27 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Fri Jul 7 23:51:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning stormonMt. Antero In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060708065127.D0B3A4D3E7@io.frii.com> > There is just a little bit of warning time: when these effects are > noticed, it is time for immediate safety procedures, if nothing else > than lie down on the ground. No! Don't lay down, the ground currents within 50-100' of the strike can get you. Better to squat down low to minimize both your height and ground area. Some say to squat or sit on your daypack or other insulator. Not very comfortable, that's for sure! Short term solution to coronal discharge (imminent danger) before you run for lower ground, thick trees, etc. Also avoid overhangs or caves unless you get get into them deeper than the height of the opening. Closer to the hole, think "spark plug," and you are in the gap. I didn't know all this when I started hiking Colorado high mountains many years ago. Once I stupidly crawled under a rock crevice after getting "buzzed" before a nearby lightning strike on a summit. Been lucky, and hopefully learned better now. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From ajs at frii.com Fri Jul 7 23:54:54 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Fri Jul 7 23:55:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightning stormonMt. Antero In-Reply-To: <070520061841.21627.44AC07CA00045FA30000547B216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <20060708065454.79DF24D3E7@io.frii.com> > I have (as all of us have) always heard about this too, but in years > of climbing around on hills and mountains, I have never yet seen such > a melted/blasted patch on a rock... Me either. However, in 1987 I led a team that planted a bronze memorial plaque on Challenger Point, Colorado, 14080'+. Over 15 years later someone sent me a photo of the plaque clearly showing that a letter "w" in one word appeared to be nearly melted/vaporized off. My guess is that lightning did it. In most other ways the plaque was still in remarkably good shape. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jul 8 21:20:23 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jul 8 09:20:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip Report - Mica MT, ID In-Reply-To: <003001c6a223$896fd300$0300a8c0@Notebook> References: <44AEE844.60ED@Tomaszewski.net> <003001c6a223$896fd300$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <2c7b9b5ac6325951b883c462a1980897@lrream.com> Hi John, Julie, Don and Owen, It was great meeting all of you at Mica Mtn. It was a good time, and after all these years I was finally convinced to put one of those small tourmalines in my collection to represent that occurrence at the locality. I am one of the lucky ones who has a large tourmaline from there as well as two beryl crystals, but had always ignored those small black tourmalines (reportedly schorl, don't know if anyone has actually made that determination). Good luck at Fossil Bowl. Lanny On Jul 7, 2006, at 5:14 PM, John Siebel wrote: > Julie and I had the good fortune to meet up with a few list members at > Mica Mountain, near Deary, Idaho on Saturday 6/24. We arrived about > 12:30, after missing the turn-off, and found said members waiting for > us at the entrance to the mine. > > > > Don Halderman, a geology major at the University of Idaho in Moscow > had arranged this trip. Thanks Don! > > > > Owen Kramer had traveled from Richland, WA to join us. Nice to meet > you Owen. Hope you found some fun stuff. > > > > We were also joined by Lanny Ream, an awfully unassuming guy > considering we deem him one of the gods of rockhounding. > > > > There was a lot more discussion than collecting, but we did pick up a > bag of small schorl tourmaline, some fun muscovite books, unimpressive > feldspar and some handsome quartzite yard rock. But the huge beryl > crystal eluded us in spite of our meager efforts. > > > > The others could tell you a lot more about the geology of the area > than I can. But it was a hoot to put faces on folks that we have been > corresponding with for a while. We expect to see Don again as we're > planning a trip to Fossil Bowl near Clarkia, ID soon. Julie and I also > expect to visit Calvert Hill/Crystal Park/etc., Montana at the end of > the month. Hopefully, this will generate a more exciting trip report. > Anyone care to join us? > > > > John > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From lanny at lrream.com Sat Jul 8 21:29:53 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sat Jul 8 09:29:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water fed Grinders In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060707142943.0331e828@orerockon.com> References: <22706742.1152139077501.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <7.0.0.16.2.20060707142943.0331e828@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <733c702c47aed6319a0d2e1826b438c2@lrream.com> Hi Tim, The two models Cliff lists are both pneumatic angle grinders with water feed, just like the Barranca. The two companies I suggested and several others sell several brands and cater specifically to the stone carving, sculpturing and countertop manufacturing crowds. Don't know of any reason why there would be any difference in using these tools to do stone sculpturing vs. lapidary work. Come to think of it, can't see any difference between stone sculpturing and lapidary work. Mind you I prefer collecting minerals, but when not out in the field and have a little free time... . Regards, Lanny On Jul 7, 2006, at 2:35 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > I thought he was looking for a stationary grinder. If it is an angle > grinder, there is a model specifically for lapidary applications, the > Barranca pneumatic wet polisher system. I have one and it works as > advertised. With the others, well, who knows? Unless you know someone > who uses them for lapidary, I would be wary. > http://www.barrancadiamond.com/lap/htl_00.html > > At 11:33 PM 7/7/2006, you wrote: >> Hi Cliff, >> >> Try Granite City Tool (www.granitecitytool.com), Braxton Bragg >> (www.braxton-bragg.com) or The Diamond Tool Store >> (www.diamondtoolstore.com). They all have pneumatic angle grinders >> with water feed, as well as supplies. Don't know about the quality of >> the two you list, but I see that most of the stone polishing and >> sculpting tool suppliers mostly sell more powerful tools (16 cfm at >> 90 psi compared to 8 cfm at 90 psi for the two you are looking at). >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> >> On Jul 5, 2006, at 3:37 PM, Cliff Jackson wrote: >> >>> List >>> >>> I am looking to purchase a water fed grinder. As I have a good >>> compresurer I am looking at air drive. My choices, so far, are a >>> Little Blue Baby or a Silent Green. Any input, suggestions or >>> offers of used equipment. >>> >>> Cliff Jackson >>> Las Vegas > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From tim at orerockon.com Sat Jul 8 09:44:52 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Jul 8 09:44:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water fed Grinders In-Reply-To: <733c702c47aed6319a0d2e1826b438c2@lrream.com> References: <22706742.1152139077501.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <7.0.0.16.2.20060707142943.0331e828@orerockon.com> <733c702c47aed6319a0d2e1826b438c2@lrream.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060708094012.03724158@orerockon.com> I see one big difference: cost. A quick scan of all three sites didn't come up with a pneumatic, water-cooled angle grinder with all the pads and grinding cup such as the Barranca kit I was talking about. Assembling a kit from the individual components on any of those three sites would cost you far more than the SRP of the Barranca system. And, you can always get the kit for around 30% less than their list price. I hate to play favorites, but I will anyway: Rob Kulakofsky has the best deals on Barranca and MK Diamond products that I know of. And, he's a hell of a faceter :) At 09:29 PM 7/8/2006, you wrote: >Hi Tim, > >The two models Cliff lists are both pneumatic angle grinders with >water feed, just like the Barranca. The two companies I suggested >and several others sell several brands and cater specifically to >the stone carving, sculpturing and countertop manufacturing crowds. >Don't know of any reason why there would be any difference in using >these tools to do stone sculpturing vs. lapidary work. Come to think >of it, can't see any difference between stone sculpturing and >lapidary work. Mind you I prefer collecting minerals, but when not >out in the field and have a little free time... . > >Regards, > >Lanny > > > >On Jul 7, 2006, at 2:35 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > >>I thought he was looking for a stationary grinder. If it is an >>angle grinder, there is a model specifically for lapidary >>applications, the Barranca pneumatic wet polisher system. I have >>one and it works as advertised. With the others, well, who knows? >>Unless you know someone who uses them for lapidary, I would be >>wary. http://www.barrancadiamond.com/lap/htl_00.html >> >>At 11:33 PM 7/7/2006, you wrote: >>>Hi Cliff, >>> >>>Try Granite City Tool (www.granitecitytool.com), Braxton Bragg >>>(www.braxton-bragg.com) or The Diamond Tool Store >>>(www.diamondtoolstore.com). They all have pneumatic angle grinders >>>with water feed, as well as supplies. Don't know about the quality >>>of the two you list, but I see that most of the stone polishing >>>and sculpting tool suppliers mostly sell more powerful tools (16 >>>cfm at 90 psi compared to 8 cfm at 90 psi for the two you are looking at). >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>Lanny Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From kadok at infowest.com Sat Jul 8 11:31:34 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Jul 8 11:31:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electricalshocks duringalightningstormonMt.Antero In-Reply-To: <44AEDDE7.3802@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000d01c6a2bc$bde12c80$0200a8c0@kadok> OK. Sounds reasonable. So -- what's an axion? Margaret It may be due to the strong magnetic field of the lightning strike converting axions to photons. There was a short article in this month's Scientific American about seeing thru walls by converting photons to axions with a strong magnetic field, and then reconverting the axions to photons on the other side of the wall with another field. Kreigh Margaret Malm wrote: > > Seeing through the cabin walls! Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? > Yet I "saw" a lightning strike (previously mentioned) through both an outer > and an inner wall of my house! > > Margaret > > >>Well the ionization that I experienced was not what I would call minor: my > > Folks, it is not too soon to start planning to attend the Henderson County Gem & Mineral Societies annual Micromount Symposium. This year it will be held on Saturday, September 2, at the Salvation Army Building at 4th and Grove, in Hendersonville, NC. This is usually a great event, with a table loaded with free material (for participants), and a buffet style lunch will be offered at a reasonable cost. OK, while you are planning, remember the Gem & Mineral Spectacular will be held that same weekend, starting on Friday, Sept. 1, and going thru Monday the 4th. And the fine Mineral and Lapidary Museum on Main at 4th will be open as usual. The folks in Hendersonville would be upset with me if I failed to mention that the annual Apple Festival will be going on at the same time, so you can bring the spouse and kids too. Feel free to pass this along. Regards to all, Earl --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Jul 9 09:05:58 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Jul 9 09:06:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smallelectricalshocks duringalightningstormonMt.Antero In-Reply-To: <000d01c6a2bc$bde12c80$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <001b01c6a371$90f84720$6702a8c0@LAPTOPAXEL> Hi Margaret & Kreigh I think that axions need far stronger EM fields than lightning can produce (Big Bang, collapsing stars, rotational friction of the sun's core against it's mantle?) Seeing through your eyelids could be explaned (but is not necessarily so) as follows: * Lightning strikes * Flash causes "after-image" to "burn" on retina before eyes are closed. * Eyelids close in milliseconds, lightning lasts much longer. * Remainder of flash shines through eyelid and is superimposed on the after-image where the retina is less sensitive due to over steering of the receptors. As a result you may see the "negative image " of the scene projected on the bright red of your eyelids shining through. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Margaret Malm Verzonden: zaterdag 8 juli 2006 20:32 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Smallelectricalshocks duringalightningstormonMt.Antero OK. Sounds reasonable. So -- what's an axion? Margaret It may be due to the strong magnetic field of the lightning strike converting axions to photons. There was a short article in this month's Scientific American about seeing thru walls by converting photons to axions with a strong magnetic field, and then reconverting the axions to photons on the other side of the wall with another field. Kreigh Margaret Malm wrote: > > Seeing through the cabin walls! Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? > Yet I "saw" a lightning strike (previously mentioned) through both an outer > and an inner wall of my house! > > Margaret > > >>Well the ionization that I experienced was not what I would call minor: my > > Well, we sure do learn about all sorts of state-of-the-art things from reading what's posted on Rockhounds, don't we? [I guess we're still treading on or beyond the border of "what's on topic" for Rockhounds, by continuing this electrical shocks theme into the realm of theoretical particle physics--well, is keeping "Mt. Antero" in the thread title, a modest attempt at keeping it "on"?] I never heard of "axions" before, so I looked it up on google, from which I saw that Wikipedia included an article.. "The axion is a hypothetical exotic subatomic particle postulated by Peccei-Quinn theory to resolve the strong-CP problem in quantum chromodynamics (QCD). The name was introduced by Frank Wilczek after a brand of detergent...." I guess I'm a great skeptic by nature, and until some of these theoretically postulated things (like my new friend here, the Axion; or "String Theory" as a whole, for that matter; and the supposed giant Antarctic meteor crater, and a couple of other things that have recently been in the geo-news) really have some kind of physical observational proof, I'll continue to think of them as "some physicist's [or geophysicist's] creative imagination". Unlike most rocks and minerals, which are pretty "concrete", and you can not only observe them, but hold them in your hand! cheers to all, Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > Hi Margaret & Kreigh > > > > I think that axions need far stronger EM fields than lightning can produce > (Big Bang, collapsing stars, rotational friction of the sun's core against > it's mantle?) > > > > Seeing through your eyelids could be explaned (but is not necessarily so) as > follows: > > * Lightning strikes > > * Flash causes "after-image" to "burn" on retina before eyes are > closed. > > * Eyelids close in milliseconds, lightning lasts much longer. > > * Remainder of flash shines through eyelid and is superimposed on > the after-image where the retina is less sensitive due to over steering of > the receptors. > > > As a result you may see the "negative image " of the scene projected on the > bright red of your eyelids shining through. > > > > Axel > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Margaret Malm > Verzonden: zaterdag 8 juli 2006 20:32 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Smallelectricalshocks > duringalightningstormonMt.Antero > > > OK. Sounds reasonable. So -- what's an axion? > > Margaret --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Sun Jul 9 09:50:37 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Sun Jul 9 09:51:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water fed Grinders In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060708094012.03724158@orerockon.com> References: <22706742.1152139077501.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <7.0.0.16.2.20060707142943.0331e828@orerockon.com> <733c702c47aed6319a0d2e1826b438c2@lrream.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060708094012.03724158@orerockon.com> Message-ID: Hi Tim, Don't hesitate to play favorites and let us know who is a good equipment dealer. It's always nice to know where there is a good deal for someone who wants what's in the kit. Regards, Lanny On Jul 8, 2006, at 9:44 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > I see one big difference: cost. A quick scan of all three sites > didn't come up with a pneumatic, water-cooled angle grinder with all > the pads and grinding cup such as the Barranca kit I was talking > about. Assembling a kit from the individual components on any of those > three sites would cost you far more than the SRP of the Barranca > system. And, you can always get the kit for around 30% less than their > list price. I hate to play favorites, but I will anyway: Rob > Kulakofsky has the best deals on Barranca and MK > Diamond products that I know of. And, he's a hell of a faceter :) > > At 09:29 PM 7/8/2006, you wrote: >> Hi Tim, >> >> The two models Cliff lists are both pneumatic angle grinders with >> water feed, just like the Barranca. The two companies I suggested and >> several others sell several brands and cater specifically to the >> stone carving, sculpturing and countertop manufacturing crowds. Don't >> know of any reason why there would be any difference in using these >> tools to do stone sculpturing vs. lapidary work. Come to think of it, >> can't see any difference between stone sculpturing and lapidary work. >> Mind you I prefer collecting minerals, but when not out in the field >> and have a little free time... . >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Jul 9 13:18:33 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Jul 9 13:18:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstorm--AND Bigones Message-ID: Not many "veins" of gold around here...maybe iron oxide in the sand. But we rank very high in the number of lightning strikes per year here.And golfers seem to be competing to be the coolest human fulgarites. Glenn > From: pjmodreski@att.net> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstorm--AND Bigones> Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 05:52:45 +0000> > Wow, that's something, Jeanette. Glad no one was hurt. Maybe their house it sitting on top of a huge vein of gold, and that's why it's so conductive and the lightning seeks it!> > Maybe they should purchase good lightning rods. Is their house particularly situated on a hilltop?> > Pete> -------------- Original message from "Jeanette Wimpee" : -------------- > > > > What a coincidence between this subject, and what happened yesterday on the > > 4th of July no less. My grandkid's home (my daughter's ex's house) was > > stuck by a bolt of that "out of the blue" lightning. No clouds overhead, no > > thunder in the distance, then ZAPPPP. The third time this house has been > > struck. My eldest grandson, his dad, and step-mom were in the yard when it > > hit. It burst the water pipes, and evidently the rebar in the slab did some > > conducting because the slab exploded under the living room. All appliances > > fried...house flooded by the bursted pipes...and the house is unliveable > > according to ins. agent. Their dogs were inside and appear to be ok. > > Gives a whole new meaning to fireworks on the 4th, doesn't it. And who says > > lightning never strikes twice?? > > Jeanette > > > > > > > Collecting safety should always be "on topic". Plus > > > fulgerites are awe inspiring to collect in the > > > field--provided you aren't the fused object! > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com: where your online world comes together - with news, sports, weather, and much more. http://www.live.com/getstarted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Sun Jul 9 19:43:16 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sun Jul 9 19:43:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks might hold clue to life on Mars Message-ID: Interesting article about desert varnish http://www.imperial.ac.uk/P7911.htm Grant From kadok at infowest.com Mon Jul 10 08:07:26 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Jul 10 08:07:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] SmallelectricalshocksduringalightningstormonMt.Antero In-Reply-To: <070920061625.2025.44B12E0500006D3A000007E9216028106007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <000601c6a432$8e1af810$0200a8c0@kadok> I'm with you, Pete! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 9:26 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] SmallelectricalshocksduringalightningstormonMt.Antero Well, we sure do learn about all sorts of state-of-the-art things from reading what's posted on Rockhounds, don't we? [I guess we're still treading on or beyond the border of "what's on topic" for Rockhounds, by continuing this electrical shocks theme into the realm of theoretical particle physics--well, is keeping "Mt. Antero" in the thread title, a modest attempt at keeping it "on"?] I never heard of "axions" before, so I looked it up on google, from which I saw that Wikipedia included an article.. "The axion is a hypothetical exotic subatomic particle postulated by Peccei-Quinn theory to resolve the strong-CP problem in quantum chromodynamics (QCD). The name was introduced by Frank Wilczek after a brand of detergent...." I guess I'm a great skeptic by nature, and until some of these theoretically postulated things (like my new friend here, the Axion; or "String Theory" as a whole, for that matter; and the supposed giant Antarctic meteor crater, and a couple of other things that have recently been in the geo-news) really have some kind of physical observational proof, I'll continue to think of them as "some physicist's [or geophysicist's] creative imagination". Unlike most rocks and minerals, which are pretty "concrete", and you can not only observe them, but hold them in your hand! cheers to all, Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > Hi Margaret & Kreigh > > > > I think that axions need far stronger EM fields than lightning can produce > (Big Bang, collapsing stars, rotational friction of the sun's core against > it's mantle?) > > > > Seeing through your eyelids could be explaned (but is not necessarily so) as > follows: > > * Lightning strikes > > * Flash causes "after-image" to "burn" on retina before eyes are > closed. > > * Eyelids close in milliseconds, lightning lasts much longer. > > * Remainder of flash shines through eyelid and is superimposed on > the after-image where the retina is less sensitive due to over steering of > the receptors. > > > As a result you may see the "negative image " of the scene projected on the > bright red of your eyelids shining through. > > > > Axel > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Margaret Malm > Verzonden: zaterdag 8 juli 2006 20:32 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Smallelectricalshocks > duringalightningstormonMt.Antero > > > OK. Sounds reasonable. So -- what's an axion? > > Margaret --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 10 09:34:35 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Jul 10 09:34:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <20060710163435.4409.qmail@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The July update to my pricelist will be posted later today. It includes material from the Palermo #1 Mine, the Clara Mine in Germany, and various mines in the Laurium (Laurion, Lavrion) area of Greece. As always, if you don't want to see these reminders, just tell me. Also, if you know someone who would like to get them, tell me. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Jul 11 10:49:18 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Jul 11 10:49:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR Message-ID: <200607111749.k6BHnKUB032410@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi all, A friend of mine is driving from Denver, Colorado to Portland, Oregon and wants to dig for fossils. I know about some places in Colorado, but how about in the other states along the way? I'll find out what route they are taking, but if anyone has any suggestions for the following states, I would appreciate it: Utah Wyoming Idaho Nevada California (northern) Washington (southern) Montana (southern) Thanks! Bob From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jul 11 11:57:40 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jul 11 11:57:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR In-Reply-To: <200607111749.k6BHnKUB032410@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200607111749.k6BHnKUB032410@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: We were underwhelmed by the Florissant site in Colorado but it was a couple years ago. Maybe they've improved their process. They weren't digging new material and the place seemed to be run, sort of, by a 14 or 15 year old boy. BK On 7/11/06, Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Hi all, > > A friend of mine is driving from Denver, Colorado to Portland, Oregon and > wants to dig for fossils. I know about some places in Colorado, but how > about in the other states along the way? I'll find out what route they > are > taking, but if anyone has any suggestions for the following states, I > would > appreciate it: > > Utah > Wyoming > Idaho > Nevada > California (northern) > Washington (southern) > Montana (southern) > > Thanks! > > Bob > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Tue Jul 11 12:08:06 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jul 11 12:08:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR In-Reply-To: References: <200607111749.k6BHnKUB032410@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060711120420.032e0de8@orerockon.com> They aren't in between anywhere and Portland (except maybe Astoria), but southwest WA and northwest OR have hundreds of sites to dig fossils. Of course they are on my CD :P If he is interested tell him to wait a few days until my CD page says Version 4 (hint). On 7/11/06, Bob Loeffler wrote: >Hi all, > >A friend of mine is driving from Denver, Colorado to Portland, Oregon and >wants to dig for fossils. I know about some places in Colorado, but how >about in the other states along the way? I'll find out what route they >are >taking, but if anyone has any suggestions for the following states, I >would >appreciate it: > >Utah >Wyoming >Idaho >Nevada >California (northern) >Washington (southern) >Montana (southern) > >Thanks! > >Bob Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD From bg at his.com Tue Jul 11 12:44:27 2006 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Tue Jul 11 12:45:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] galena in german Message-ID: <3ba5cca7ecac2ef5593677588c4e4b4d@his.com> can anyone tell me what galena translates to in german? thanks, cathy From hilmarandheidi at telus.net Tue Jul 11 13:12:55 2006 From: hilmarandheidi at telus.net (Hilmar Krocke) Date: Tue Jul 11 13:16:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] galena in german In-Reply-To: <3ba5cca7ecac2ef5593677588c4e4b4d@his.com> References: <3ba5cca7ecac2ef5593677588c4e4b4d@his.com> Message-ID: On 11-Jul-06, at 12:44 , Catherine Gaber wrote: > can anyone tell me what galena translates to in german? > > thanks, cathy Both, " GALENIT " or " BLEIGLANTZ " is used. look up this mindat. page : http://www.mindat.org/min-1641.html Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From MurowchickJ at umkc.edu Tue Jul 11 13:18:49 2006 From: MurowchickJ at umkc.edu (Murowchick, James) Date: Tue Jul 11 13:18:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism Message-ID: <13141419437BDF4DAB94F7A351DA00FB3F6A45@KC-MSX3.kc.umkc.edu> Can anyone give me information (name, location, any contact information) on mines or mining districts that have successfully been turned into tourist attractions? I am especially interested in sites that are run by private or state groups, perhaps with associated museums, mine tours, historical displays, or possibly collecting opportunities. Examples (I think) are the mining museums in Potosi, MO and Sterling Hill/Franklin, NJ, or Crater of Diamonds State Park in AR, Emerald Creek(?) garnet collecting in Idaho. Thanks, Jim Murowchick From roughrock at gmail.com Tue Jul 11 14:19:36 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Tue Jul 11 14:19:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060711120420.032e0de8@orerockon.com> References: <200607111749.k6BHnKUB032410@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060711120420.032e0de8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: He could try behind the High School in Fossil, OR. There he will find imprints of leaves. In fact, they are so abundant you step on them looking around. When I was there you just went out behind the High School and accross the football field, and there they are, all over the ground and a bluff about 25 feet high if you want to dig.. Unfortunately, Fossil is not on any highway that a rational person would use to get from one place to another. If you find yourself in Fossil, OR it's because you went there. G'LUCK, Grant Johnston, Chico, CA On 7/11/06, Tim Fisher wrote: > They aren't in between anywhere and Portland (except maybe Astoria), > but southwest WA and northwest OR have hundreds of sites to dig > fossils. Of course they are on my CD :P If he is interested tell him > to wait a few days until my CD page says Version 4 (hint). > > On 7/11/06, Bob Loeffler wrote: > > >Hi all, > > > >A friend of mine is driving from Denver, Colorado to Portland, Oregon and > >wants to dig for fossils. I know about some places in Colorado, but how > >about in the other states along the way? I'll find out what route they > >are > >taking, but if anyone has any suggestions for the following states, I > >would > >appreciate it: > > > >Utah > >Wyoming > >Idaho > >Nevada > >California (northern) > >Washington (southern) > >Montana (southern) > > > >Thanks! > > > >Bob > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From cjkuo at verizon.net Tue Jul 11 14:25:22 2006 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Tue Jul 11 14:25:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism References: <13141419437BDF4DAB94F7A351DA00FB3F6A45@KC-MSX3.kc.umkc.edu> Message-ID: <012301c6a530$85177c80$7a01a8c0@mvijkuolt1> Oatman, AZ and Gold Road Mine. The two are not associated, just nearby. All up and down CA Hwy 49. Specifically, Marshall Gold Discovery State Historic Park. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murowchick, James" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism > Can anyone give me information (name, location, any contact information) > on mines or mining districts that have successfully been turned into > tourist attractions? I am especially interested in sites that are run by > private or state groups, perhaps with associated museums, mine tours, > historical displays, or possibly collecting opportunities. Examples (I > think) are the mining museums in Potosi, MO and Sterling Hill/Franklin, > NJ, or Crater of Diamonds State Park in AR, Emerald Creek(?) garnet > collecting in Idaho. > > Thanks, > Jim Murowchick > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Jul 11 15:00:19 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Jul 11 14:57:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism In-Reply-To: <012301c6a530$85177c80$7a01a8c0@mvijkuolt1> References: <13141419437BDF4DAB94F7A351DA00FB3F6A45@KC-MSX3.kc.umkc.edu> <012301c6a530$85177c80$7a01a8c0@mvijkuolt1> Message-ID: <44B41F73.1020002@verizon.net> Jimmy Kuo wrote: > Oatman, AZ and Gold Road Mine. The two are not associated, just nearby. When I lived in AZ there was a place called Goldfield, I think, in Apache Junction east of Phoenix, I think. There was an old town and an mine tour with a big suprise at the end. I don't know if they're still in business. You'd need to do some investigating but that should get you started. Don From tim at orerockon.com Tue Jul 11 16:26:13 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jul 11 16:26:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR In-Reply-To: References: <200607111749.k6BHnKUB032410@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060711120420.032e0de8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060711162426.03325520@orerockon.com> The Fossil HS is now a "managed site" with rules and hours almost identical to Stonerose in Republic, WA. I can't seem to justify even stopping when I am already driving through town for the privilege of paying $5.00 to collect three specimens. At 04:23 PM 7/11/2006, you wrote: >He could try behind the High School in Fossil, OR. There he will find >imprints of leaves. In fact, they are so abundant you step on them >looking around. When I was there you just went out behind the High >School and accross the football field, and there they are, all over >the ground and a bluff about 25 feet high if you want to dig.. > >Unfortunately, Fossil is not on any highway that a rational person >would use to get from one place to another. If you find yourself in >Fossil, OR it's because you went there. > >G'LUCK, > >Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > >On 7/11/06, Tim Fisher wrote: >>They aren't in between anywhere and Portland (except maybe Astoria), >>but southwest WA and northwest OR have hundreds of sites to dig >>fossils. Of course they are on my CD :P If he is interested tell him >>to wait a few days until my CD page says Version 4 (hint). Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jul 11 17:29:22 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jul 11 17:26:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism References: <13141419437BDF4DAB94F7A351DA00FB3F6A45@KC-MSX3.kc.umkc.edu> Message-ID: <44B441BA.4E28@Tomaszewski.net> Jim, The Delaware Mine, Delaware, MI; HC1, Box 102, Mohawk, MI or 906-289-4688. Collecting allowed on the dumps after a tour if you remember to ask. The Quincy Mine; Quincy Mine Hoist Association, Inc., 49750 US 41, Hancock, MI, or 906-482-3101. Hand collecting usually allowed in the mine if you ask, and on the dumps after a tour (if you ask). Both are in the Keweenaw Peninsula, and are cooperating sites of the Keweenaw National Historical Park (which includes many other sites). I have collected at both in the past year (and gone underground at both). The Adventure Mining Company, Greenland, MI, which is 12 miles east of Ontonagon, near the Keweenaw Peninsula; www.adventuremine.com or 906-883-3371. The main purpose used to be collecting, but I understand they have changed their focus to underground mine tours; I do not know what collecting they now allow. The coal mine at the Museum of Science and Industry, 57th Street and Lake Shore Drive, Chicago, IL 60637 or 773-684-1414 or www.msichicago.org. Collecting in the museum gift shop only. I was there yesterday and greatly enjoyed climbing up the stairs to enter the mine via the hoist, descending 584 feet underground, and exiting the mine floor by climbing down the stairs back into the museum. It is a very successful mine, having been in continuous operation since 1933 (or 34). They use the old technology as well as the latest advances in mining. Kreigh Murowchick, James wrote: > > Can anyone give me information (name, location, any contact information) on mines or mining districts that have successfully been turned into tourist attractions? I am especially interested in sites that are run by private or state groups, perhaps with associated museums, mine tours, historical displays, or possibly collecting opportunities. Examples (I think) are the mining museums in Potosi, MO and Sterling Hill/Franklin, NJ, or Crater of Diamonds State Park in AR, Emerald Creek(?) garnet co > > Thanks, > Jim Murowchick > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From hilmarandheidi at telus.net Tue Jul 11 17:59:06 2006 From: hilmarandheidi at telus.net (Hilmar Krocke) Date: Tue Jul 11 18:02:16 2006 Subject: Fwd: [Rockhounds] galena in german References: Message-ID: <10CCC1F6-CD51-4041-88A5-E84012A79AF3@telus.net> On 11-Jul-06, at 12:44 , Catherine Gaber wrote: can anyone tell me what galena translates to in german? thanks, cathy Both, " GALENIT " or " BLEIGLANTZ " is used. look up this mindat. page : http://www.mindat.org/min-1641.html Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Jul 11 18:18:10 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Jul 11 18:21:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism References: <13141419437BDF4DAB94F7A351DA00FB3F6A45@KC-MSX3.kc.umkc.edu> <44B441BA.4E28@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001401c6a551$1172d470$0300a8c0@Notebook> Kreigh, I'm thrilled to hear that the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago is still operating the coal mine exhibit after all these years. It's one of my fondest memories from childhood. I'm guessing that I was about 7 or 8 when I first visited (I'm 50 now), and I assumed that they would have trashed it years ago. My dad bought me a card from the gift shop with about a dozen mineral samples glued to it and a "Golden Guide to Fossils." At home I immediately removed the mineral specimens from the card and displayed them in their own little drawers. It was my first introduction to rockhounding and probably the catalyst that got me into museum display design. Thanks for the memories! John PS. Is the Nazi submarine still there? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > The coal mine at the Museum of Science and Industry From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Jul 11 18:29:00 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Jul 11 18:32:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT Nazi Sub Exhibit (WAS: Mines and tourism) References: <13141419437BDF4DAB94F7A351DA00FB3F6A45@KC-MSX3.kc.umkc.edu> <44B441BA.4E28@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002101c6a552$96df3670$0300a8c0@Notebook> Kreigh, John wrote: >PS. Is the Nazi submarine still there? Sorry, I just checked the website and note that the sub looks like it has been refurbished and is now indoors. It used to be moored next to the pier in Lake Michigan. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > The coal mine at the Museum of Science and Industry, > www.msichicago.org. From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Jul 11 18:49:21 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Jul 11 18:52:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR References: <200607111749.k6BHnKUB032410@bubbleator.drizzle.com><7.0.0.16.2.20060711120420.032e0de8@orerockon.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060711162426.03325520@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <003801c6a555$6e839c40$0300a8c0@Notebook> Tim, So there is now a limit of three specimens at Fossil? John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" > The Fossil HS is now a "managed site" with rules and hours almost > identical to Stonerose in Republic, WA. I can't seem to justify even > stopping when I am already driving through town for the privilege of > paying $5.00 to collect three specimens. From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Jul 11 19:34:34 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Jul 11 19:35:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism In-Reply-To: <44B41F73.1020002@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200607120235.k6C2ZSIE009639@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I just found a new website with tons of mine tours and museums in Colorado. Please go to the following web page and click on the "Colorado Tourist Information Links" link. If you want a PDF to print out, click on the "Tourist Mine Brochure (PDF)" link. http://www.mining.state.co.us/Tourist%20Mine%20Links.htm In AZ, the Vulture Mine near Wickenburg (northwest of Phoenix) was one that I went to when I was young. Do a search on Google.com for some websites with directions and info. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:00 PM To: Jimmy Kuo; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism Jimmy Kuo wrote: > Oatman, AZ and Gold Road Mine. The two are not associated, just nearby. When I lived in AZ there was a place called Goldfield, I think, in Apache Junction east of Phoenix, I think. There was an old town and an mine tour with a big suprise at the end. I don't know if they're still in business. You'd need to do some investigating but that should get you started. Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Jul 11 19:35:51 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Jul 11 19:35:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200607120235.k6C2ZraF009963@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Thanks Grant! I'll let him know. Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Grant Johnston Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 3:20 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR He could try behind the High School in Fossil, OR. There he will find imprints of leaves. In fact, they are so abundant you step on them looking around. When I was there you just went out behind the High School and accross the football field, and there they are, all over the ground and a bluff about 25 feet high if you want to dig.. Unfortunately, Fossil is not on any highway that a rational person would use to get from one place to another. If you find yourself in Fossil, OR it's because you went there. G'LUCK, Grant Johnston, Chico, CA On 7/11/06, Tim Fisher wrote: > They aren't in between anywhere and Portland (except maybe Astoria), > but southwest WA and northwest OR have hundreds of sites to dig > fossils. Of course they are on my CD :P If he is interested tell him > to wait a few days until my CD page says Version 4 (hint). > > On 7/11/06, Bob Loeffler wrote: > > >Hi all, > > > >A friend of mine is driving from Denver, Colorado to Portland, Oregon and > >wants to dig for fossils. I know about some places in Colorado, but how > >about in the other states along the way? I'll find out what route they > >are > >taking, but if anyone has any suggestions for the following states, I > >would > >appreciate it: > > > >Utah > >Wyoming > >Idaho > >Nevada > >California (northern) > >Washington (southern) > >Montana (southern) > > > >Thanks! > > > >Bob > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Jul 11 19:36:37 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Jul 11 19:37:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060711120420.032e0de8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <200607120237.k6C2bUgp010018@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Ok, thanks Tim. I'll let him know to wait a few days before he contacts you. Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tim Fisher Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:08 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR They aren't in between anywhere and Portland (except maybe Astoria), but southwest WA and northwest OR have hundreds of sites to dig fossils. Of course they are on my CD :P If he is interested tell him to wait a few days until my CD page says Version 4 (hint). On 7/11/06, Bob Loeffler wrote: >Hi all, > >A friend of mine is driving from Denver, Colorado to Portland, Oregon and >wants to dig for fossils. I know about some places in Colorado, but how >about in the other states along the way? I'll find out what route they >are >taking, but if anyone has any suggestions for the following states, I >would >appreciate it: > >Utah >Wyoming >Idaho >Nevada >California (northern) >Washington (southern) >Montana (southern) > >Thanks! > >Bob Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Jul 11 19:53:49 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Jul 11 19:54:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200607120253.k6C2ruS7015836@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Yeah, we had a major issue at the Florissant quarry last weekend. We called the day before we went (last Thursday) and they said they would be open on Saturday from 10am to 4pm. We got up there on Friday and it was raining, but we hoped it wouldn't rain on Saturday. It did rain on Saturday but we still wanted to dig there. We got there a little before 10am and waited... about 30 minutes... at the gate. We thought someone would open the gate or at least come out to say they weren't opening because of all the rain. Nobody showed up. We called them on our cell phone and nobody answered. Left a message for them and never heard back from them. Left another message for them as we were driving up near the Sweet Home Mine. Still nobody called us back. As of now (as I'm typing this), still no call back. We won't be going back there. We also went to the Florissant Fossil Beds National Monument (http://www.nps.gov/flfo/), which is NOT associated with the quarry (besides the fossil formation). The people there were nice and helpful. We saw the fossils in the little museum there, but we didn't go on any of the trails (one of them is closed for construction). Regarding the Sweet Home Mine, they have leveled the mine dumps and sealed up/caved in (restoration) the adit and now it looks like it was never there. They did a great job with that, although I wish they had left it all for us rockhounds. ;-) There is a "private property" sign as you get to the former mine location, so people shouldn't trespass or try digging in the area. As far as I know, people can still drive further up the dirt road to Kite Lake for a picnic. :-) Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 12:58 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR We were underwhelmed by the Florissant site in Colorado but it was a couple years ago. Maybe they've improved their process. They weren't digging new material and the place seemed to be run, sort of, by a 14 or 15 year old boy. BK On 7/11/06, Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Hi all, > > A friend of mine is driving from Denver, Colorado to Portland, Oregon and > wants to dig for fossils. I know about some places in Colorado, but how > about in the other states along the way? I'll find out what route they > are > taking, but if anyone has any suggestions for the following states, I > would > appreciate it: > > Utah > Wyoming > Idaho > Nevada > California (northern) > Washington (southern) > Montana (southern) > > Thanks! > > Bob > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Jul 11 19:57:11 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Jul 11 19:57:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism In-Reply-To: <200607120235.k6C2ZSIE009639@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <200607120257.k6C2vIdb017462@bubbleator.drizzle.com> >> I just found a new website with tons of mine tours and museums in Colorado. Please go to the following web page and click on the "Colorado Tourist Information Links" link. If you want a PDF to print out, click on the "Tourist Mine Brochure (PDF)" link. http://www.mining.state.co.us/Tourist%20Mine%20Links.htm >> Ooops, that page is the actual page with all of the links and info, so you don't have to click on another link to get there. 8-) Regards, Bob From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jul 11 20:28:16 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jul 11 20:25:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism {and an AD for my home town} References: <13141419437BDF4DAB94F7A351DA00FB3F6A45@KC-MSX3.kc.umkc.edu> <44B441BA.4E28@Tomaszewski.net> <001401c6a551$1172d470$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <44B46B69.313B@Tomaszewski.net> John, We went to Chicago to see the play "Wicked" (very! entertaining -- personal recommendation; OT), do the Adler Planetarium (very on topic, and worth seeing), "A Taste of Chicago", Navy Pier, {, a whole bunch of other locations}, and the Museum of Science of Industry (many displays, also on topic, and my 'Field Trip report'). Yes, the U505 is still there. I also remember it from my childhood, visiting it first in the late 50s. Their special exhibit this time was da Vinci; I was impressed (they even featured his '24 ft horse' sculpture, that was finally realized in my home town of Grand Rapids, MI, over 500 years later {and it is truely awesome}). You would still feel at home in the Museum. They have retained a good sense of what is history, and what has changed; this visit was a long gap, but I still knew most of where I was going. And, Yes!, the Basic Science section still has an great exhibit on the mineral crystal shapes! Kreigh John Siebel wrote: > > Kreigh, > > I'm thrilled to hear that the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago is > still operating the coal mine exhibit after all these years. It's one of my > fondest memories from childhood. I'm guessing that I was about 7 or 8 when I > first visited (I'm 50 now), and I assumed that they would have trashed it > years ago. My dad bought me a card from the gift shop with about a dozen > mineral samples glued to it and a "Golden Guide to Fossils." At home I > immediately removed the mineral specimens from the card and displayed them > in their own little drawers. It was my first introduction to rockhounding > and probably the catalyst that got me into museum display design. > > Thanks for the memories! > > John > PS. Is the Nazi submarine still there? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > > > The coal mine at the Museum of Science and Industry > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kugeln at msn.com Tue Jul 11 21:03:16 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (John Stockwell) Date: Tue Jul 11 21:03:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] For the German or Other European List Members Message-ID: Anybody have a photograph of a famous findling I could use? Can't find good contacts on the web. Thanks. John Stockwell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Wed Jul 12 04:53:57 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Wed Jul 12 04:54:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mining tourist attractions Message-ID: <20060712115357.82591.qmail@web56309.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Jim: I m personally aware of a couple of coal mining attractions, the Exhibition Coal Mine in Beckley WV, which is surrounded by a well put-together example of a company town of circa 1900, and a similar attraction near Bluefield WV. The one in Beckley is an old drift mine that was operated by hand (and pony) back in the early 1900s, and now has modern roof bolt supported roof and a few donated machines invented since the original mine was dug. I'va also visited the Copper Queen mine in Bisbee, AZ, which allows people to ride an old mantrip in to see a stope in that venerable copper mine - they put everyone in a hardhat, with light, and a yellow slicker, it's pretty good fun. I'm aware of a deep mine in Park City, UT that has been developed successfully, but haven't visited it yet myself. I've heard it's pretty nice, and very deep. I think I've heard about a deep gold mine in CA somewhere, but that's just a hazy memory. I look forward to visiting the mines in NJ sometime, I hear it's a great fluorescence display. Hope this helps, JR --------------------------------- Sneak preview the all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different. Just radically better. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Jul 12 06:02:41 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Wed Jul 12 06:02:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR In-Reply-To: <200607120253.k6C2ruS7015836@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004201c6a5b3$409feeb0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> Bob: Did you try or pass by the Topaz mine? I think it was called the Topaz Mountain Gem Mine and it is not too far from the Florrisant beds. I've heard it changed hands, but is reopened. Ted -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds- From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jul 12 05:55:52 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jul 12 06:32:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR In-Reply-To: <003801c6a555$6e839c40$0300a8c0@Notebook> References: <200607111749.k6BHnKUB032410@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060711120420.032e0de8@orerockon.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060711162426.03325520@orerockon.com> <003801c6a555$6e839c40$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060712055526.034d6068@orerockon.com> Fossil, Ore., charges for namesakes THE ASSOCIATED PRESS FOSSIL, Ore. -- For decades, this town's key attraction didn't cost visitors a cent. Click Here Now in an attempt to rebrand itself as an "edu-tourism" mecca, the City of Fossil plans to begin charging tourists a $3 fee for collecting a maximum of three fossils from the hills surrounding the town. Collecting fossils has always been banned at the John Day Fossil Beds National Monument -- located to the south. But until recently, that was not the case in this town of 460, where tourists plucked 30- million-year-old fossils from the hill behind the local high school. The move is meant to spur economic development in Fossil, population 460, as well as in Wheeler County, the state's least populous county and one of its poorest. By billing itself as an "edu-tourism" gateway, the town and county hopes to capitalize on the rise in vacations built around an educational core. Edu-tourism is a "powerful trend," said Todd Davidson, the director of Travel Oregon, the state's tourism commission. "It's all part of a desire to have a more enriching experience ... it's not about going and being lectured to, but about going and experiencing," he said. The Oregon Paleo Project, a nonprofit, was formed by area residents intent on turning the town's heritage into a boon. The fossils, embedded in the remains of an ancient lake bed, were exposed in 1949 or 1950 when the ground near Wheeler High School was leveled to create a baseball field. "A baby could go there and collect the state fossil," said Bill Orr, a retired professor of geology from the University of Oregon. "One of the reasons I revere the high school in Wheeler County is that anyone can go there -- and they do," he said. With the revenue it collects as well as with grants, the Oregon Paleo Project hopes to one day build an institute featuring classes, labs and seminars for students and visitors. "You have to look at what you have," said Wheeler County Judge Jeanne Burch, one of the organizers of the Oregon Paleo Project. "We have rocks." Pausing, she adds: "But our rocks are 50 million years old and they have these fantastic leaf fossils in them." With a single blinking red traffic light and just 23 students now enrolled in that high school, Fossil could use a shot in the arm. So far, fossil-hunters have not complained about the $3 fee. At 06:49 PM 7/11/2006, you wrote: >Tim, > >So there is now a limit of three specimens at Fossil? > >John > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" > >>The Fossil HS is now a "managed site" with rules and hours almost >>identical to Stonerose in Republic, WA. I can't seem to justify >>even stopping when I am already driving through town for the >>privilege of paying $5.00 to collect three specimens. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From SHMM at sussexonline.com Wed Jul 12 06:34:27 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Wed Jul 12 06:34:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mining tourist attractions In-Reply-To: <20060712115357.82591.qmail@web56309.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c6a5b7$e931a1a0$46681540@D3JM7W21> JR wrote: I look forward to visiting the mines in NJ sometime, I hear it's a great fluorescence display. ------------------------------- Yes, at both mines, Franklin and Sterling Hill. This spring we collaborated on improving the 32-foot-long display in the Franklin Mineral Museum. This display contains hundreds of specimens from the Franklin and Sterling Hill mines and is the most spectacular public display I know of. We hung new lights, went through a recently acquired collection of fluorescent minerals to select the keepers, etc. With about 1,000 watts of shortwave UV beaming on those minerals they really light up. I don't use the word "spectacular" lightly. The Sterling Hill Mining Museum contains the Thomas S. Warren Museum of Fluorescence -- a museum within a museum. There are four rooms in the Warren Museum, three of them devoted to fluorescent minerals, with hundreds of worldwide specimens on display. We purposely did NOT emphasize specimens from the Franklin-Sterling Hill area to avoid duplicating what the Franklin Museum has already done so well. Each display case in the Warren Museum explores some theme of fluorescence, so you can learn a lot while here. We have single-species cases (calcite, willemite, fluorite, scheelite, sphalerite), activator cases (manganese-activated minerals, uranium-activated minerals, miscellaneous activators), specialty cases (Terlingua-type calcites, polarized fluorescence, phosphorescence, rare minerals, fluorescent concrete, the Hesselbacher collection of fluorescent crystals), locality cases (Ilimaussaq complex in Greenland, Balmat district in New York, Arizona), and more. The fourth room of the museum contains displays of antique and modern ultraviolet lights. Both museums offer daily collecting opportunities as well, and have extensive dumps to search through. At $1.50 a pound you can't go wrong. Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com From hilmarandheidi at telus.net Wed Jul 12 07:45:27 2006 From: hilmarandheidi at telus.net (Hilmar Krocke) Date: Wed Jul 12 07:48:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] For the German or Other European List Members In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 11-Jul-06, at 21:03 , John Stockwell wrote: > Anybody have a photograph of a famous findling I could use? Can't > find good contacts on the web. > > Thanks. What do you mean by "findling" ? It is not a German word. Hilmar --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Jul 12 08:01:00 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Jul 12 08:01:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Limonite Cast Message-ID: <001201c6a5c4$1a8eb150$a0864c0c@LarryRush> List: I came across an odd piece in a small lot of Brazilian specimens I bought, and would appreciate verification or comments. I believe this to be a cast (as opposed to a pseudomorph) of limonite after something (feldspar?). The crystal shape is tabular and well-formed. The casting is completely hollow, the "skin" being only a couple of millimeters thick, and you can see completely through it via a couple of small, natural holes. I bought it as a dravite specimen, since it has 2 nice brown dravites attached and found it to be too light for its size, and then discovered the reason after I got it home. It is 4X5X6cm overall and the hollow cast is 2X3X4cm with good crystal form. It is labeled as coming from Governadore Valadares, MG. I suspect that the limonite is a secondary mineral which covered the original mineral. The original was then leached away through the tiny holes, leaving the insoluble limonite shell intact. The dravite is pristine and apparently unaffected by the preceding events. I can send photos of this to anyone interested in such things. Larry Rush "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kugeln at msn.com Wed Jul 12 08:56:31 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (John Stockwell) Date: Wed Jul 12 08:56:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] For the German or Other European List Members References: Message-ID: It is a German word. The plural is 'findlinge'. Meaning "glacial erratic." In northern Germany many of the large erratics are known by individual names and otherwise celebrated. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hilmar Krocke" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] For the German or Other European List Members > > On 11-Jul-06, at 21:03 , John Stockwell wrote: > >> Anybody have a photograph of a famous findling I could use? Can't find >> good contacts on the web. >> >> Thanks. > > What do you mean by "findling" ? It is not a German word. > > Hilmar > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From cjkuo at verizon.net Wed Jul 12 08:57:51 2006 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Wed Jul 12 08:58:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mining tourist attractions References: <20060712115357.82591.qmail@web56309.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <019b01c6a5cb$ee772e50$7a01a8c0@mvijkuolt1> >I think I've heard about a deep gold mine in CA somewhere, but that's just >a hazy memory. Empire Mine State Historic Park? 3 years ago, I think I went on an underground tour there. But it seems they're doing something now. Actual new building. Nice grounds including old mansion. Spent a couple hours there. http://www.empiremine.org/tours.html In fact, all of Nevada County, CA is full of mining sites turned into tourism spots. Could spend a week in this region (as I noted in my previous post, up and down Hwy 49, forty-niners, get it?), including the California State Mining and Minerals Museum: http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=588 Another mine and ghost town converted to tourism: Calico, CA (not worth it): http://www.calicotown.com/ From murowchickj at umkc.edu Wed Jul 12 13:25:10 2006 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (James Murowchick) Date: Wed Jul 12 13:26:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism Message-ID: Thank you everyone who sent in info of tourist mines. If I get a chance, I'll compile them all into a list for future reference. The cause of my request is that I might be part of a project to develop eco-tourism in a rather poor area in Mexico. The area might have potential for eco-tourism because of its wide variety of biological (whales, birds) and geological attractions, scenery (spectacular coasts, volcanoes, deserts), archeology and cultural sites, as well as hiking, kayaking, and other activities. My contribution would be in the identification and documentation of geologic sites that might be of interest. Thanks again, and I'll keep accepting information. Jim Murowchick Dept. of Geosciences University of Missouri-Kansas City From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jul 12 14:02:03 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jul 12 14:01:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mining tourist attractions In-Reply-To: <000001c6a5b7$e931a1a0$46681540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: >With about 1,000 watts of shortwave UV beaming >on those minerals they really light up. I don't use the word "spectacular" >lightly. 1000 watts of SW? Replenishing the ozone layer, are we??? (LOL) Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jul 12 14:02:03 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jul 12 14:01:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Limonite Cast In-Reply-To: <001201c6a5c4$1a8eb150$a0864c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: Hi Larry, I'm always "in " for a photo ;-))) Small remark: I don't think that limonite is a valid mineral name. It's usually used for mixtures of hydroxides and oxides of iron. Most likely your specimen is made up of goethite/hematite/lepidocrocite. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lawrence Rush Verzonden: woensdag 12 juli 2006 16:01 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Limonite Cast List: I came across an odd piece in a small lot of Brazilian specimens I bought, and would appreciate verification or comments. I believe this to be a cast (as opposed to a pseudomorph) of limonite after something (feldspar?). The crystal shape is tabular and well-formed. The casting is completely hollow, the "skin" being only a couple of millimeters thick, and you can see completely through it via a couple of small, natural holes. I bought it as a dravite specimen, since it has 2 nice brown dravites attached and found it to be too light for its size, and then discovered the reason after I got it home. It is 4X5X6cm overall and the hollow cast is 2X3X4cm with good crystal form. It is labeled as coming from Governadore Valadares, MG. I suspect that the limonite is a secondary mineral which covered the original mineral. The original was then leached away through the tiny holes, leaving the insoluble limonite shell intact. The dravite is pristine and apparently unaffected by the preceding events. I can send photos of this to anyone interested in such things. Larry Rush "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Wed Jul 12 14:15:33 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Wed Jul 12 14:12:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8DC02DFE-11EB-11DB-8D1D-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> James - There are a great many tourist mines in Europe. Two that come to mind are the famous salt mines of Wieliczka Poland and the "Steinkaulenberg" agate mine in Idar-Oberstein. Here's one of many URL's for Wieliczka: http://www.photo-exhibits.com/europe/poland/wieliczka_salt_mine_photos/ wieliczka_color_photographs.html And one on the Steinkaulenberg: http://www.showcaves.com/english/de/mines/Steinkaulenberg.html The above site also has a whole list of historic, restored and visitable mines in Germany; unfortunately much of it is only in German: http://www.showcaves.com/english/de/mines/ A Google search on history-mining-cornwall-england might also be fruitful. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From turnea55 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 12 19:10:26 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Wed Jul 12 19:10:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mining tourist attractions In-Reply-To: <20060712115357.82591.qmail@web56309.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The Sudan Iron Mine State Park in Sudan, MN is pretty remarkable. It was one of the richest iron mines in the world for quite some time. For not very much money, you get to take the shaft down something like 1500ft and ride a train about two miles into the mountains. I went there when I was taking my ore deposits class (we went with the geo dept. from MN-Duluth). Also, the Homestake Gold Mine in Lead, SD still operates tours. When the mine was open, the tour was much better as they actually gave you real gold ore samples from the pit and took you to the working hoist and shaft houses. They still take you around the area and describe what they did and it is worth an hour or so if you are in the area. I got to go to the bottom of the open-pit right before the pit closed in 2001. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Wed Jul 12 20:22:37 2006 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Wed Jul 12 20:22:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's too bad Walt Boswer is no longer of this earth, he would have been a great help as he used to lead trips to different mines in Mexico. >From: James Murowchick >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism >Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:25:10 -0500 > >Thank you everyone who sent in info of tourist mines. If I get a chance, >I'll compile them all into a list for future reference. > >The cause of my request is that I might be part of a project to develop >eco-tourism in a rather poor area in Mexico. The area might have potential >for eco-tourism because of its wide variety of biological (whales, birds) >and geological attractions, scenery (spectacular coasts, volcanoes, >deserts), archeology and cultural sites, as well as hiking, kayaking, and >other activities. My contribution would be in the identification and >documentation of geologic sites that might be of interest. > >Thanks again, and I'll keep accepting information. > >Jim Murowchick >Dept. of Geosciences >University of Missouri-Kansas City > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 12 21:27:04 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 12 21:20:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism References: Message-ID: <44B5CA0A.2C14@Tomaszewski.net> Dawn, If you use the 'Way Back Machine' at www.archive.org you can see Walt's website (www.mineralsearch.com) from 1999 to 2005. Thank you for reminding me of Walt; we traded several specimens during our many discussions, and I treasure them. Walt was an execptional collector, and friend, and I still miss him. Kreigh Dawn M. Fredricks wrote: > > It's too bad Walt Boswer is no longer of this earth, he would have been a > great help as he used to lead trips to different mines in Mexico. > > >From: James Murowchick > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism > >Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:25:10 -0500 > > > >Thank you everyone who sent in info of tourist mines. If I get a chance, > >I'll compile them all into a list for future reference. > > > >The cause of my request is that I might be part of a project to develop > >eco-tourism in a rather poor area in Mexico. The area might have potential > >for eco-tourism because of its wide variety of biological (whales, birds) > >and geological attractions, scenery (spectacular coasts, volcanoes, > >deserts), archeology and cultural sites, as well as hiking, kayaking, and > >other activities. My contribution would be in the identification and > >documentation of geologic sites that might be of interest. > > > >Thanks again, and I'll keep accepting information. > > > >Jim Murowchick > >Dept. of Geosciences > >University of Missouri-Kansas City From johnjold at comcast.net Thu Jul 13 06:58:30 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Thu Jul 13 06:59:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Burgess Shale Precambrian Mollusk Message-ID: <9518073df89b65c8350aaf52601cada4@comcast.net> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/ RTGAM.20060713.wxmollusk13/BNStory/Science/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp The link is to a Canadian newspaper article covering a newly discovered soft bodied form of mollusk. Perfect impressions of all soft tissue including stomach. intestines, outer membrane and mouth are visible. They ranged from a few millimeters to 20 centimeters in size. This pushes back the history of animal evolution tens of millions of years to 560 million years ago in Precambrian time. From Jg81638 at aol.com Thu Jul 13 07:55:13 2006 From: Jg81638 at aol.com (Jg81638@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 13 07:55:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Limonite Cast Message-ID: <246.ef4f53c.31e7b8d1@aol.com> Hi Larry I also would be interested in seeing a photo of this 'limonite' cast. Back in England in the '60s I came across what I was told were limonite/ironstone boxstones, similarly pill shaped, hollow, constructs, in loose sand deposits (which also contained massive ironstone lumps and concretions of sand cemented with iron sulphide). Often when broken open they contained layers of wet, iron stained, mud. Be interesting to see if they are in any way similar to your find. Jim Groves (snailmail 94 River Road, Savoy, MA 01256) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jul 13 08:33:10 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jul 13 08:33:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Limonite Cast In-Reply-To: <246.ef4f53c.31e7b8d1@aol.com> References: <246.ef4f53c.31e7b8d1@aol.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040607130833n263f9019pe8e3060a6fa40f3c@mail.gmail.com> Jim, I have found something similar here in VA. At an outcropping of the Price Formation near Pulaski, there are really neat plant fossils with these weird flat, sectioned rocks. They are cellular in structure, usually 1/4" to 1/2" and separated by a "wall" of the material. When these "cells" are broken open they contain really sticky mud. Drew On 7/13/06, Jg81638@aol.com wrote: > > Hi Larry I also would be interested in seeing a photo of this > 'limonite' cast. Back in England in the '60s I came across what I was > told were > limonite/ironstone boxstones, similarly pill shaped, hollow, constructs, > in loose > sand deposits (which also contained massive ironstone lumps and > concretions > of sand cemented with iron sulphide). Often when broken open they > contained > layers of wet, iron stained, mud. Be interesting to see if they are in > any > way similar to your find. Jim Groves (snailmail 94 River Road, Savoy, > MA > 01256) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Jul 13 09:23:15 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Jul 13 09:23:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Topaz Mine in Colorado (was Fossil digging between Denver and Portland) In-Reply-To: <004201c6a5b3$409feeb0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <200607131623.k6DGNPOV030992@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi Ted, No, we didn't try that, but I've been past it many times. I AM curious to see if they are charging the same price per bucket as Walt Rubeck did when he owned the place. If/when I check it out, I'll let everyone know. Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Ted Kowalski Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 7:03 AM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR Bob: Did you try or pass by the Topaz mine? I think it was called the Topaz Mountain Gem Mine and it is not too far from the Florrisant beds. I've heard it changed hands, but is reopened. Ted -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jul 13 09:29:07 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jul 13 09:29:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Topaz Mine in Colorado (was Fossil digging between Denver and Portland) Message-ID: <071320061629.10608.44B674D300044A3B00002970216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I thought I'd been told that the Gem Mine is no longer open as a public pay-to-dig site, it is simply now a mining claim owned by Joe Dorris, not operated as any kind of public fee area any more. Unless that has changed. Pete -------------- Original message from "Bob Loeffler" : -------------- > Hi Ted, > > No, we didn't try that, but I've been past it many times. I AM curious to > see if they are charging the same price per bucket as Walt Rubeck did when > he owned the place. If/when I check it out, I'll let everyone know. > > Thanks, > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Ted Kowalski > Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 7:03 AM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR > > Bob: > Did you try or pass by the Topaz mine? I think it was called the Topaz > Mountain Gem Mine and it is not too far from the Florrisant beds. I've heard > it changed hands, but is reopened. > > Ted > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Thu Jul 13 09:45:26 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jul 13 09:45:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000c01c6a69b$be5e2360$0200a8c0@kadok> Yes, I do miss Walt Bowser, too. Margaret >It's too bad Walt Boswer is no longer of this earth, he would have been a >great help as he used to lead trips to different mines in Mexico. >From: James Murowchick >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism >Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:25:10 -0500 > >Thank you everyone who sent in info of tourist mines. If I get a chance, >I'll compile them all into a list for future reference. > >The cause of my request is that I might be part of a project to develop >eco-tourism in a rather poor area in Mexico. The area might have potential >for eco-tourism because of its wide variety of biological (whales, birds) >and geological attractions, scenery (spectacular coasts, volcanoes, >deserts), archeology and cultural sites, as well as hiking, kayaking, and >other activities. My contribution would be in the identification and >documentation of geologic sites that might be of interest. > >Thanks again, and I'll keep accepting information. > >Jim Murowchick >Dept. of Geosciences >University of Missouri-Kansas City > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gramtam at mac.com Thu Jul 13 10:48:28 2006 From: gramtam at mac.com (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Jul 13 12:25:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Walt Bowser In-Reply-To: <000c01c6a69b$be5e2360$0200a8c0@kadok> References: <000c01c6a69b$be5e2360$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: Margaret, Many of us here in Southern California who were close personal friends echo that sentiment. Strange happenstance, my brother has built a home in, and now lives in Las Cruces. Larry Bruce a very close friend and digging partner of Walt's also left this world far too early. When the statement was made of knowing where to go to dig in Mexico, my first thought as an alternate to Walt was Larry. Sad, sad, sad. Terrie From lanny at lrream.com Fri Jul 14 11:18:37 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Jul 14 11:19:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mines and tourism In-Reply-To: <13141419437BDF4DAB94F7A351DA00FB3F6A45@KC-MSX3.kc.umkc.edu> References: <13141419437BDF4DAB94F7A351DA00FB3F6A45@KC-MSX3.kc.umkc.edu> Message-ID: <002e13d54aa08dc12f6f4b04ecee35a1@lrream.com> Hi Jim, Apparently there are a lot of old mining districts that have become tourist attractions in one way or another. I wouldn't put Emerald Creek, Idaho in that list though. The rockhound digging is not really related to the garnet mining. In general they mine different deposits for different material, large garnets vs. sand. Also, the rockhound garnet digging is not a result of the mining activities and doesn't include them in the tourist attraction. A new one can soon be added to the site though, the Bayhorse District, near Challis, Idaho for a State Park. The state recently bought the townsite and nearby Pacific and Beardsley mines. Money has been obtained for some cleanup of hazardous materials and apparently work has started on stabilizing some of the decaying buildings. Plans are to have the main townsite open as a tourist attraction in 2-3 years. Of course this also means the mines will be closed permanently. The mines are on private land, not specifically posted against trespassing, but probably mostly visited without permission. I am curious of what is going to happen to the large collection of drill core stored in one of the buildings at the townsite. This is a geologic record that should not be tossed out. Regards, Lanny On Jul 11, 2006, at 1:18 PM, Murowchick, James wrote: > Can anyone give me information (name, location, any contact > information) on mines or mining districts that have successfully been > turned into tourist attractions? I am especially interested in sites > that are run by private or state groups, perhaps with associated > museums, mine tours, historical displays, or possibly collecting > opportunities. Examples (I think) are the mining museums in Potosi, > MO and Sterling Hill/Franklin, NJ, or Crater of Diamonds State Park in > AR, Emerald Creek(?) garnet collecting in Idaho. > > Thanks, > Jim Murowchick > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From DrkHorse42 at aol.com Sat Jul 15 18:10:53 2006 From: DrkHorse42 at aol.com (DrkHorse42@aol.com) Date: Sat Jul 15 18:10:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Museum name change and rock-mineral exhibits expansion Message-ID: <2fa.1b386600.31eaec1d@aol.com> The Wienman Museum of North Georgia is expanding, adding more exhibits, and changing it's name to Tellus. Thier new website is tellus.com and the completion date is set for 2007. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jul 15 20:49:28 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jul 15 20:49:43 2006 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [Rockhounds] Museum name change and rock-mineral exhibits expansion]] Message-ID: <44B9B748.9070803@verizon.net> Greetings all, My friend and fellow optical mineralogist is the curator of the Weinman Museum. Unfortunately, keeping me up to date via e-mail is not his strong point. However this is his response to the nice post that was on the list, which as you will see he asked to share. Isn't it nice to see a museum GROWING instead of shrinking!!! -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Rockhounds] Museum name change and rock-mineral exhibits expansion] Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 03:41:40 +0000 From: julian.gray@comcast.net To: DonH CC: DrkHorse42@aol.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com Yes Don. I'm in the middle of all this. Here's what's going on: We are building an altogether new museum and the extensive Weinman Mineral Museum collection will become a larger mineral gallery within Tellus Northwest Georgia Science Museum. It's a science museum, meaning we are keeping the existing mineralogy discipline, but adding new disciplines: a planetarium, expanded fossil gallery featuring full scale dinosaurs representative of those from the Cretaceous in Georgia, a hands on science gallery for school children, and a transportation gallery. We will vastly expand our coverage of science with five classrooms (we currently have one small classroom). We now own fifty acres surrounding the museum, which will feature an amphitheater and nature trails. We have received and will receive more library donations to offer a great research library. Lastly, I hope to add an analytical element to the museum capabilities (personal goal, but worthy). Oh, and we plan to open in 2008, not 2007. As you see Tellus is altogether new. This is not simply a name change and we know this will be confusing until this message gets out. Since we added new missions, we thought a new name was appropriate. Jose Santamaria will be director of the new museum and I will curate its collections. Needless to say I am excited about all this. I've known about these changes for a while, but only recently was all this made public. It's nice to finally be able to talk about it! Please feel free to post this message to the known universe. I will get the press release to you soon and it would be good to send that out also. Also send folks to our web pages: www.weinmanmuseum.org and www.tellusmuseum.org (the URL in the message below is incorrect.) The latter is under construction, but will feature details of the project Lastly, the building is paid for, but we are in the midst of a capital campaign to raise money for the exhibits to go in the building. So . . . feel free to donate!! Money is good. Rocks are better! Cheers, -- Julian C. Gray From tblackwood1 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 16 08:37:43 2006 From: tblackwood1 at yahoo.com (Timothy Blackwood) Date: Sun Jul 16 08:37:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question about a dioptase specimen locality. : ) Message-ID: <20060716153743.48602.qmail@web54706.mail.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, Yesterday, I went down to Moose Lake, Minnesota, for their annual Agate Days rock and mineral show. I was very hot and very humid. After arriving at 9am, I was on the road home by a little after 11am. I did manage to find 6 new specimens to add to my collection. One is a nice thumbnail of dioptase. The crystals, up to about 1cm, are growing out of a botryoidal layer of what appears to be blue-green chrysocolla. The locality given is Kapese-Lukasi, Democratic Republic of Congo. I'm not sure if the spelling is correct and can find no reference to this locality on either www.mindat.org or in Bernard and Hyrsl's "Minerals and their Localities". The crystals and association appears similar to photos of specimens from the Tantara Mine, Katanga, Democratic Republic. According to Encarta World Atlas, Tantara is located between Kapaso and Likasi (perhaps these are the correct spellings?). I may have just answered my question, but would appreciate comments from our more experienced members. Thanks in advance and I'll look forward to hearing from you soon. :) Sincerely, Tim Blackwood Cohasset, Minnesota, USA Timothy J. Blackwood E-mail: tblackwood1@yahoo.com Phone: (218)328-6272 Home Address: 120 N.W. 5th Street Apt. #101 Cohasset, Minnesota, USA 55721 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Jul 16 10:19:41 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Jul 16 10:19:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spessartine on smoky quartz Message-ID: <036b01c6a8fc$065a1630$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> At the Cincinnati Show in May, I obtained a specimen with orange spessartine crystals coating a 6 cm smoky quartz crystal. It is from China, but the dealer didn't know where. I can't even read the province name though it may be Fujion or something to that effect. Does anyone have info as to their locality? Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kward at themineralgallery.com Sun Jul 16 10:51:07 2006 From: kward at themineralgallery.com (kward) Date: Sun Jul 16 10:51:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spessartine on smoky quartz In-Reply-To: <036b01c6a8fc$065a1630$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <036b01c6a8fc$065a1630$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.2.20060716125031.05a64ca0@themineralgallery.com> Probably Tongbei Area, Yunxiao County, Fujian Province of China. At 12:19 PM 7/16/2006, you wrote: >At the Cincinnati Show in May, I obtained a specimen with orange >spessartine crystals coating a 6 cm smoky quartz crystal. It is from >China, but the dealer didn't know where. I can't even read the province >name though it may be Fujion or something to that effect. Does anyone have >info as to their locality? > >Alan > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html The Mineral Gallery and Auction http://www.themineralgallery.com http://www.exceptionalminerals.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From SHMM at sussexonline.com Mon Jul 17 08:53:15 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Mon Jul 17 08:53:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spessartine on smoky quartz In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.2.20060716125031.05a64ca0@themineralgallery.com> Message-ID: <002d01c6a9b9$20e41420$cd7b1540@D3JM7W21> Yep, sounds right. A specimen of spessartine on quartz in the Oreck Gallery of the Zobel Exhibit Hall (Sterling Hill Mining Museum) bears this label: Spessartine- Tongbei, Yunxiao, Fujian Province, China. Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of kward Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 1:51 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Spessartine on smoky quartz Probably Tongbei Area, Yunxiao County, Fujian Province of China. At 12:19 PM 7/16/2006, you wrote: >At the Cincinnati Show in May, I obtained a specimen with orange >spessartine crystals coating a 6 cm smoky quartz crystal. It is from >China, but the dealer didn't know where. I can't even read the province >name though it may be Fujion or something to that effect. Does anyone have >info as to their locality? > >Alan > From Alpen at aol.com Mon Jul 17 10:32:49 2006 From: Alpen at aol.com (Alpen@aol.com) Date: Mon Jul 17 10:33:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Memphis Message-ID: <566.1cde537.31ed23c1@aol.com> Hello list, I will be going to Memphis, TN in September for meetings and I was hoping to find some time to do a little rock or arrowhead hunting in that area. I've read that some agate is in the area, but I can't find anything with details on where to go. If anyone has any suggestions on where I can go that is within or close to Memphis, please email suggestions to me. Thanks, Eric Bindner Littleton, CO --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaszczak at mtu.edu Mon Jul 17 13:16:01 2006 From: jaszczak at mtu.edu (John Jaszczak) Date: Mon Jul 17 13:16:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] contact info for Andrew Sicree In-Reply-To: <2fa.1b386600.31eaec1d@aol.com> References: <2fa.1b386600.31eaec1d@aol.com> Message-ID: <44BBF001.20101@mtu.edu> Can anyone give me contact information of Andrew Sicree? He was curator at the Earth & Mineral Sciences Museum at Penn State but he doesn't seem to be listed in the Penn State faculty/staff directory any more. Thanks John From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jul 17 14:42:19 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jul 17 14:42:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] contact info for Andrew Sicree Message-ID: <071720062142.10660.44BC043B00076BED000029A4216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> John, I have his email address c/o Penn State, you might try that, I think he may still be getting email there and/or working part-time for them, sicree@geosc.psu.edu Pete -------------- Original message from John Jaszczak : -------------- > Can anyone give me contact information of Andrew Sicree? > He was curator at the Earth & Mineral Sciences Museum at Penn State but > he doesn't seem to be listed in the Penn State faculty/staff directory > any more. > > Thanks > John > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Tue Jul 18 08:25:25 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Jul 18 08:25:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: OreRockOn DVD Version 4 In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060712055526.034d6068@orerockon.com> References: <200607111749.k6BHnKUB032410@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060711120420.032e0de8@orerockon.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060711162426.03325520@orerockon.com> <003801c6a555$6e839c40$0300a8c0@Notebook> <7.0.0.16.2.20060712055526.034d6068@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060718081056.032dca00@orerockon.com> Just a note to let the list know that I am finally done my magnum opus, version 4 of my rock dig location guide for the Pacific Northwest. It now contains 35 site writeups, 625 topo maps, 212 overview maps, and 2,020 GPS waypoints (yikes!). Most of the new maps are: Idaho locations from Lanny Ream's guides, recently discovered or publicized sites in OR and WA, and (mostly) every fossil collecting site I could find, and that is quite a few. This version (and all future versions) is only available on data DVD; it would have fit on 4 or 5 CDs but I am not into burning, labeling, and finding a way to package all those discs. DVD readers are $15 on the net anyway lol. I am keeping the previous version available for those who are intent on getting the most out of that ancient CD drive. As usual, check the link below if you want to know more. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com CD of OR, WA, & ID rockhounding sites: http://OreRockOn.com/CD From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Jul 18 11:16:12 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Jul 18 11:16:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad References: Message-ID: <001401c6aa96$40c35fc0$088f4c0c@LarryRush> Well, things are slow in Lake WoBegon...it's hot here in Connecticut, and I suspect where you are, too! Not even many messages on the Rockhounds Group! How about a summer sale?..10% off any specimen, and free shipping in the US....(Sorry Europeans..you are not as hot as we are!) Good till Sept.1, when I hope it is cool enough to dig again! Larry Rush www.ConnRoxMinerals.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jul 18 13:27:48 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jul 18 13:27:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad In-Reply-To: <001401c6aa96$40c35fc0$088f4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: >it's hot here in Connecticut, and I >suspect where you are, too! Larry, it's 97 degrees in the shade here in the North of Belgium... Us beersippers are plugging in the IV's. You have to be real nuts to even think about picking up a rock. Chee... oh never mind! Meltingly yours Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lawrence Rush Verzonden: dinsdag 18 juli 2006 19:16 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad Well, things are slow in Lake WoBegon...it's hot here in Connecticut, and I suspect where you are, too! Not even many messages on the Rockhounds Group! How about a summer sale?..10% off any specimen, and free shipping in the US....(Sorry Europeans..you are not as hot as we are!) Good till Sept.1, when I hope it is cool enough to dig again! Larry Rush www.ConnRoxMinerals.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Jul 18 17:49:54 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Jul 18 17:50:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad References: Message-ID: <000601c6aacd$5cf58650$29804c0c@LarryRush> Ah...I should have checked the world weather map first!! (In trying to match you, Axel, my epitaph would read....."to the battle of wits, he came defenseless") =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:27 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad > >it's hot here in Connecticut, and I >>suspect where you are, too! > > Larry, it's 97 degrees in the shade here in the North of Belgium... Us > beersippers are plugging in the IV's. > You have to be real nuts to even think about picking up a rock. > > Chee... oh never mind! > > Meltingly yours > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lawrence Rush > Verzonden: dinsdag 18 juli 2006 19:16 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad > > > Well, things are slow in Lake WoBegon...it's hot here in Connecticut, and > I > suspect where you are, too! Not even many messages on the Rockhounds > Group! > > How about a summer sale?..10% off any specimen, and free shipping in the > US....(Sorry Europeans..you are not as hot as we are!) Good till Sept.1, > when I hope it is cool enough to dig again! > > Larry Rush > > www.ConnRoxMinerals.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jul 19 03:36:42 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jul 19 03:36:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad In-Reply-To: <000601c6aacd$5cf58650$29804c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: My wits have evaporated, Larry... Forecast for today : 38 centigrade or 100.4 Fahrenheit in the shade. Hottest day of the year so far. My mind will be as far away from rocks as possible. In fact, I'll be looking up instead of down since I'm going to compete in a popinjay contest. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lawrence Rush Verzonden: woensdag 19 juli 2006 1:50 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad Ah...I should have checked the world weather map first!! (In trying to match you, Axel, my epitaph would read....."to the battle of wits, he came defenseless") =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:27 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad > >it's hot here in Connecticut, and I >>suspect where you are, too! > > Larry, it's 97 degrees in the shade here in the North of Belgium... Us > beersippers are plugging in the IV's. > You have to be real nuts to even think about picking up a rock. > > Chee... oh never mind! > > Meltingly yours > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lawrence Rush > Verzonden: dinsdag 18 juli 2006 19:16 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad > > > Well, things are slow in Lake WoBegon...it's hot here in Connecticut, and > I > suspect where you are, too! Not even many messages on the Rockhounds > Group! > > How about a summer sale?..10% off any specimen, and free shipping in the > US....(Sorry Europeans..you are not as hot as we are!) Good till Sept.1, > when I hope it is cool enough to dig again! > > Larry Rush > > www.ConnRoxMinerals.com > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From hammerron at yahoo.com Wed Jul 19 05:33:21 2006 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Wed Jul 19 05:33:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? Message-ID: <20060719123321.6064.qmail@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The news headline I read this morning said "Beryl forming of Carolina coast" I don't know if a tropical storm has ever matched the name of a mineral before, but found it interesting. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From OLLEN.BURNETTE at us.army.mil Wed Jul 19 08:05:44 2006 From: OLLEN.BURNETTE at us.army.mil (Burnette III, Ollen L DAC CCMD (PKI)) Date: Wed Jul 19 08:05:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Collecting Message-ID: <2B1F7B25B783FF4FAEF23F1C82D8DC7E0355EEA4@HOODB1DOIMSR021.nasw.ds.army.mil> Last weekend, my Wife and I were headed back home to Central Texas from Southern Missouri, so of course we had to stop and look for rocks. We spent Sunday Morning at the Crater of Diamonds State Park in Murfreesboro, AR - and yes it was hot! 77 degrees at 08:00 in the morning, and 93 by the time we left at 11:00. The forcasted high was 100 degrees, I'm not sure if it made it or not, since we left the area before noon. For those who have not been there, the Crater of Diamonds SP is an open, plowed field where for a small digging fee ($6.00) you can dig and keep any mineral or rock you find. The park is about 100 acres, and is located over a kimberlite pipe, which was commercially mined for a while in the early 1900s. The park also contains a small, but very nice museum; which gives a good understanding of the history and geology of the area. The museum is separate from the digging area, and is free. I found one small (23 point, or just under 1/4 carat) brown diamond, which was the 257th recorded find in the park this year! I also collected several nice agates, a couple of jaspers, and a piece of amethyst. Chip Burnette Killeen, TX From albalmer at att.net Wed Jul 19 08:05:53 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jul 19 08:05:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad In-Reply-To: References: <000601c6aacd$5cf58650$29804c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <7hisb25nqcs1126l75m24e42dg560h0fau@4ax.com> On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:36:42 +0200, "Axel Emmermann" wrote: >My wits have evaporated, Larry... >Forecast for today : 38 centigrade or 100.4 Fahrenheit in the shade. >Hottest day of the year so far. >My mind will be as far away from rocks as possible. In fact, I'll be looking >up instead of down since I'm going to compete in a popinjay contest. > >Axel > I wish it were that cool here! Al in sunny Arizona. >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lawrence Rush >Verzonden: woensdag 19 juli 2006 1:50 >Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad > > >Ah...I should have checked the world weather map first!! >(In trying to match you, Axel, my epitaph would read....."to the battle of >wits, he came defenseless") > >=================================== >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Axel Emmermann" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 4:27 PM >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad > > >> >it's hot here in Connecticut, and I >>>suspect where you are, too! >> >> Larry, it's 97 degrees in the shade here in the North of Belgium... Us >> beersippers are plugging in the IV's. >> You have to be real nuts to even think about picking up a rock. >> >> Chee... oh never mind! >> >> Meltingly yours >> >> Axel >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lawrence Rush >> Verzonden: dinsdag 18 juli 2006 19:16 >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad >> >> >> Well, things are slow in Lake WoBegon...it's hot here in Connecticut, and >> I >> suspect where you are, too! Not even many messages on the Rockhounds >> Group! >> >> How about a summer sale?..10% off any specimen, and free shipping in the >> US....(Sorry Europeans..you are not as hot as we are!) Good till Sept.1, >> when I hope it is cool enough to dig again! >> >> Larry Rush >> >> www.ConnRoxMinerals.com -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Jul 19 09:24:23 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Jul 19 09:24:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? Message-ID: >From the time tropical storms have been given names, most of those names have been women's names. All until recent times. And of course many women's names are the same as beautiful jewels. Tropical storm name "Beryl" also caught my eye as rather unusual. Have you ever known anyone named Beryl?Glenn Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:33:21 -0700 From: hammerron@yahoo.com The news headline I read this morning said "Beryl forming of Carolina coast" I don't know if a tropical storm has ever matched the name of a mineral before, but found it interesting. _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care about in one place. http://www.live.com/getstarted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jul 19 09:29:46 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jul 19 09:29:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There's a member named Beryl on one of the photography lists that I'm on. BK On 7/19/06, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > >From the time tropical storms have been given names, most of those names > have been women's names. > > All until recent times. > > And of course many women's names are the same as beautiful jewels. > > Tropical storm name "Beryl" also caught my eye as rather unusual. > > Have you ever known anyone named Beryl?Glenn > > > > > Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:33:21 -0700 From: hammerron@yahoo.com > The news headline I read this morning said "Beryl forming of Carolina > coast" I don't know if a tropical storm has ever matched the name of a > mineral before, but found it interesting. > _________________________________________________________________ > Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you > care about in one place. > http://www.live.com/getstarted > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Jul 19 10:05:44 2006 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Jul 19 10:05:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004601c6ab55$952b2380$0500a8c0@okapi> For 15 points, NAME THE BOOK that gave the push to "officially" name tropical storms after women. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Glenn Wimpee > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 11:24 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? > > >From the time tropical storms have been given names.... From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jul 19 10:56:03 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Jul 19 10:59:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad References: Message-ID: <004801c6ab5c$a3fd8680$0300a8c0@Notebook> From: "Axel Emmermann" > Forecast for today : 38 centigrade or 100.4 Fahrenheit in the shade. Gee Axel, Perhaps you should get out of the shade?!! :-) John From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jul 19 14:20:33 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jul 19 14:20:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad In-Reply-To: <7hisb25nqcs1126l75m24e42dg560h0fau@4ax.com> Message-ID: >>I wish it were that cool here! Yes but you have Gila monsters, we have to look for rocks with nothing else than the usual bugs ;oD Axel in baking Belgium PS: you have the Purple Passion Mine... We only have purple heads and skins ;-))) Kitty: id you're reading this: Belgium is hotter than de inside of Mauna Loa right now :-))) From totis99 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 19 14:46:51 2006 From: totis99 at yahoo.com (teresa otis) Date: Wed Jul 19 14:46:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Collecting Murfreesboro In-Reply-To: <2B1F7B25B783FF4FAEF23F1C82D8DC7E0355EEA4@HOODB1DOIMSR021.nasw.ds.army.mil> Message-ID: <20060719214651.72859.qmail@web36703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> We've been there in winter and summer so you are either covered in wet cold heavy mud or losing weight in the wonderful Arkansas humidity and still covered in heavy mud LOL! but we always had fun! As a side note, the link below is a wonderful place to stay with spots for tents, rv's, and great little cabins at a more than reasonable price! You could spend hours in their shop and not see all the cool stuff. And just as an FYI, Murfreesboro is a small town and things close early so if you need groceries or if you want a cold alcoholic beverage while you are down there after a hot day in the diamond field, the county is a 'dry' county. Having lived in Arkansas for many years, we learned early on to keep a cooler in the car full of whatever we might want when we were out rock huntin' as we never knew if we would be gone over night or not. Teresa Otis http://www.murfreesboroark.com/miners.html > Last weekend, my Wife and I were headed back home to > Central Texas from > Southern Missouri, so of course we had to stop and > look for rocks. We spent > Sunday Morning at the Crater of Diamonds State Park > in Murfreesboro, AR - > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 19 15:42:10 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 19 15:39:43 2006 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? References: <004601c6ab55$952b2380$0500a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <44BEB4A8.400B@Tomaszewski.net> Gary Brown wrote: > > For 15 points, NAME THE BOOK that gave the push to "officially" name > tropical storms after women. > > GcB Gary, Are you thinking of 'Storms' by George Stewart in the early 1940s? It inspired a Disney movie, and is generally credited as standardizing the practice of using women's names for hurricanes by meterologists in the services during WWII. BTW, the practice of using women's names was not officially adopted until 1953. Kreigh From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jul 19 15:47:51 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jul 19 15:47:55 2006 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? In-Reply-To: <44BEB4A8.400B@Tomaszewski.net> References: <004601c6ab55$952b2380$0500a8c0@okapi> <44BEB4A8.400B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Well this Beryl is at least Beryl IV since that name was used at least three other times. The only other mineral name I noted was Opal. BK On 7/19/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Gary Brown wrote: > > > > For 15 points, NAME THE BOOK that gave the push to "officially" name > > tropical storms after women. > > > > GcB > > Gary, > > Are you thinking of 'Storms' by George Stewart in the early 1940s? It > inspired a Disney movie, and is generally credited as standardizing the > practice of using women's names for hurricanes by meterologists in the > services during WWII. BTW, the practice of using women's names was not > officially adopted until 1953. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Jul 19 16:29:08 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Jul 19 16:29:10 2006 Subject: OT: [Rockhounds] tropical storm named after mineral? References: <004601c6ab55$952b2380$0500a8c0@okapi> <44BEB4A8.400B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <005c01c6ab8b$21f50f30$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> One of these days there will be a hurricane Crystal (or Krystal). If you add "ite" after the name, then there have been other hurricanes like "Allan" that would qualify. Or was it hurricane Allen? (Himmicane?) I know there hasn't been one spelled like my name... Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:47 PM Subject: Re: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? > Well this Beryl is at least Beryl IV since that name was used at least > three > other times. The only other mineral name I noted was Opal. > > BK > > On 7/19/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> >> Gary Brown wrote: >> > >> > For 15 points, NAME THE BOOK that gave the push to "officially" name >> > tropical storms after women. >> > >> > GcB >> >> Gary, >> >> Are you thinking of 'Storms' by George Stewart in the early 1940s? It >> inspired a Disney movie, and is generally credited as standardizing the >> practice of using women's names for hurricanes by meterologists in the >> services during WWII. BTW, the practice of using women's names was not >> officially adopted until 1953. >> >> Kreigh >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Jul 19 18:36:07 2006 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Jul 19 18:35:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Murfreesboro fee dig area References: <200607200102.k6K11tTC026903@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00ae01c6ab9c$dfbcfb70$6b01a8c0@rock3> I noted with interest the report from Ollen of the fee dig in Murfreesboro at the kimberlite. I was not aware that kimberlites produced agates, jasper or amethyst. Does anyone know if they do or not, and if not, do they "salt" the diggings with agate and amethyst for the people not lucky enough o find a real diamond? Rock From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Jul 19 19:28:33 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Jul 19 19:29:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Murfreesboro fee dig area References: <200607200102.k6K11tTC026903@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <00ae01c6ab9c$dfbcfb70$6b01a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <00d401c6aba4$4d92cb50$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I read that only two diamonds per day are found, so I suspect they are salted with other things to keep folks interested. (But I've never collected there, so I can't offer firsthand experience.) Considering the tremendous depth where kimberlites form, the only way you would find quartz minerals would be in the brecciated xenoliths as the mass rises to the surface. The kimberlite in Elliott Co., KY contains xenoliths of sandstone and shale. I have not found any limestone xenoliths from the older Paleozoic rock that the kimberlite punched through on its way to the surface. Therefore I would think the xenoliths would be composed of whatever rock-types surround the deposit. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:36 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Murfreesboro fee dig area >I noted with interest the report from Ollen of the fee dig in Murfreesboro > at the kimberlite. I was not aware that kimberlites produced agates, > jasper > or amethyst. Does anyone know if they do or not, and if not, do they > "salt" > the diggings with agate and amethyst for the people not lucky enough o > find > a real diamond? > Rock > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Paintricks at aol.com Wed Jul 19 20:09:38 2006 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Wed Jul 19 20:09:47 2006 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? Message-ID: <484.641c01e.31f04df2@aol.com> Would it be Isaac Storm? Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From turnea55 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 19 20:11:08 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Wed Jul 19 20:11:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Murfreesboro fee dig area In-Reply-To: <00d401c6aba4$4d92cb50$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: No, nothing in Murfreesboro is "salted." It is a state park and the only diamond mine ever opened to the public to dig (at least they claim this). I have been there twice, including in March of this year where it decided to rain on my vacation for 4 straight days (digging quartz in 45 degree weather and rain is not much fun either). The diamond bearing rock in AR is lamproite. Most diamonds in the world are actually found in lamproite, including at the Argyle mine in Australia (greatest producing diamond mine in the world). They are easily confused with kimberlite (which is also found at the park to some extent). There is a bunch of jasper (mostly small, white/brown colored pieces there) and some amethyst there. The amethyst is pretty small, and the few pieces I actually found of it werent even worth keeping (very small, crude pieces with few crystal faces). If I recall, these minerals were present in the surrounding outcrops and above some of the lamproite when the lamproite breccia intruded. They are not found in the same rock as the diamonds, and are actually good indicators that you may not be digging in a good place if you see a lot of these minerals. They till the field at times and with all the people moving things, some of the minerals are probably not in-situ. Congrats on your find. I just got frustrated there, especially since an overcast day is typically a better day to go. The mica (phlogopite) there drives me crazy. Everytime I see a flake of it shine back to me, I get excited only to be disappointed. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA >From: "Alan Goldstein" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Murfreesboro fee dig area >Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 22:28:33 -0400 > >I read that only two diamonds per day are found, so I suspect they are >salted with other things to keep folks interested. (But I've never >collected there, so I can't offer firsthand experience.) Considering the >tremendous depth where kimberlites form, the only way you would find quartz >minerals would be in the brecciated xenoliths as the mass rises to the >surface. The kimberlite in Elliott Co., KY contains xenoliths of sandstone >and shale. I have not found any limestone xenoliths from the older >Paleozoic rock that the kimberlite punched through on its way to the >surface. Therefore I would think the xenoliths would be composed of >whatever rock-types surround the deposit. > >Alan > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:36 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Murfreesboro fee dig area > > >>I noted with interest the report from Ollen of the fee dig in Murfreesboro >>at the kimberlite. I was not aware that kimberlites produced agates, >>jasper >>or amethyst. Does anyone know if they do or not, and if not, do they >>"salt" >>the diggings with agate and amethyst for the people not lucky enough o >>find >>a real diamond? >>Rock >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From turnea55 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 19 20:15:38 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Wed Jul 19 20:15:41 2006 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? In-Reply-To: <484.641c01e.31f04df2@aol.com> Message-ID: It's too bad that they aren't naming the rest of the storms this year after minerals/mineral families this year. Looks like I'll have to wait another year for hurricane Cuprosklodowskite..hehe. Andrew Turner >From: Paintricks@aol.com >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: Re: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? >Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:09:38 EDT > >Would it be Isaac Storm? > Kevin > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Jul 19 20:23:01 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Jul 19 20:23:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? References: <004601c6ab55$952b2380$0500a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <003101c6abab$cec6cc10$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Key Largo???? or was that only a movie.. Jeanette >>for 15 points, NAME THE BOOK that gave the push to "officially" name > tropical storms after women. > > GcB > > From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Wed Jul 19 20:27:23 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Wed Jul 19 20:27:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] another meteorite in Norway! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44BEF81B.5070400@jeanniusdesigns.com> looks like I picked the wrong year to move back from Norway??? http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1390361.ece Jeanne ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Wed Jul 19 20:48:45 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Wed Jul 19 20:48:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] King tut's gems from space impact? In-Reply-To: <44BEF81B.5070400@jeanniusdesigns.com> References: <44BEF81B.5070400@jeanniusdesigns.com> Message-ID: <44BEFD1D.3030105@jeanniusdesigns.com> Interesting article at BBC Tut's gem hints at space impact http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5196362.stm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 19 20:52:11 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 19 20:49:57 2006 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad References: Message-ID: <44BEFD2A.341E@Tomaszewski.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > > My wits have evaporated, Larry... > Forecast for today : 38 centigrade or 100.4 Fahrenheit in the shade. > Hottest day of the year so far. > My mind will be as far away from rocks as possible. In fact, I'll be looking > up instead of down since I'm going to compete in a popinjay contest. > > Axel Axel, Are you talking, or shooting? Popinjay is a fun, old, word with multiple meanings. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 19 21:08:40 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 19 21:05:35 2006 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? References: Message-ID: <44BF0106.1E33@Tomaszewski.net> He He He! I've got a great specimen of Cuprosklodowskite. I'll bet it is a long time before we see a 'green' hurricane. Kreigh Andrew Turner wrote: > > It's too bad that they aren't naming the rest of the storms this year after > minerals/mineral families this year. Looks like I'll have to wait another > year for hurricane Cuprosklodowskite..hehe. > > Andrew Turner > > >From: Paintricks@aol.com > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >Subject: Re: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? > >Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:09:38 EDT > > > >Would it be Isaac Storm? > > Kevin From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Jul 19 21:05:44 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Jul 19 21:05:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad actually popinjay contest References: <44BEFD2A.341E@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001e01c6abb1$c6c04bd0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> I'd like to know myself, what is a "popinjay" contest? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:52 PM Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad > Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >> My wits have evaporated, Larry... >> Forecast for today : 38 centigrade or 100.4 Fahrenheit in the shade. >> Hottest day of the year so far. >> My mind will be as far away from rocks as possible. In fact, I'll be >> looking >> up instead of down since I'm going to compete in a popinjay contest. >> >> Axel > > Axel, > > Are you talking, or shooting? > > Popinjay is a fun, old, word with multiple meanings. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Thu Jul 20 00:34:13 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Jul 20 00:34:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [OT] popinjay contest In-Reply-To: <001e01c6abb1$c6c04bd0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <44BEFD2A.341E@Tomaszewski.net> <001e01c6abb1$c6c04bd0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060719212506.047bfd28@mail.hawaiiantel.net> If Axel isn't melting too much in the heat he will probably respond, but I believe the popinjay contest involves sooting straight up with a bow and arrow at a very small target at the top of a very tall pole. He can probably send you pics if you ask off list. Aloha, Kitty At 06:05 PM 7/19/2006, you wrote: >I'd like to know myself, what is a "popinjay" contest? >Jeanette > >>Axel Emmermann wrote: >>> I'll be looking >>>up instead of down since I'm going to compete in a popinjay contest. >>> >>>Axel From jr50wv at yahoo.com Thu Jul 20 04:53:02 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Thu Jul 20 04:53:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] field trip report - IGI quarry in Anderson, IN Message-ID: <20060720115302.46604.qmail@web56311.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: Last weekend Dan and I took a flying trip from Charleston WV to Columbus, OH, (Thursday evening) to Anderson IN (Friday evening) and back home to nearby Charleston WV Saturday afternoon and evening. Friday we attended an MSHA safety class provided by the Ohio DNR Mining enforcement group (sorry I don't have the exact title of their unit, they did a great job). There were nearly 30 folks in the class, which was a Midwest Friends of Mineralogy function. The class is required by many quarries for anyone attending a collecting day. It was HOT in Columbus, and the conference room the class was given in was overfilled by the nearly-SRO crowd. There was a lot of meat in the class, but the instructors broke up the grim photos of accident sites (they are first on the scene after the ambulence to investigate the cause of lost time injuries) with funny photos and videos. I enjoyed the class, and learned a lot. Part of what was great about it was that the very next morning we visited a large active quarry with nearly every one of the hazards we were warned about the day before. The IGI quarry is known for calcite crystals in vugs, I found one piece with 3 different habits/colors of calcite on it, there were at least 4 readily available. The best were perhaps the large clear golden crystals, they looked like dodecahedrons to my unskilled eye, and even when there were a lot of cleavages from the rock being first broken by explosives and then pushed around by heavy equipment they were really pretty. Another very popular habit was small flat-laying rhombs that were irridescent, perhaps from microscopic pyrite crystals? Very pretty, and less likely to be damaged by the industrial activity. The area we were allowed to collect in was in a very shallow part of the quarry, there was a low hi-wall about 20-30 feeet high, with 15-25 feet of rubble pushed up against it. The limestone was pretty hard, and was rough with a sparkley look to it, I suppose perhaps micro crystals of calcite from the various episodes of mineralizations. Some people went right up the rubble piles to the top of the highwall and started working the broken but in-situ bedrock, and others mostly went through the rubble, turning over likely rocks looking for a pretty one, and this is mostly what I did. Much of the golden calcite appeared to completely fill crevices in the bedrock, and then break into cleavages when the bedrock was opened up. The safety lessons of the day before were reinforced by visiting the IGI quarry the very next day. Highwall safety was a large part of the class, and when we noticed someone banging on the highwall under loose looking rock, we went over and called it to their attention. No one was rude about it, and everyone seemed glad for any warning. By the time we left (about noon) no one had suffered anything past a band-aid scratch, and we enjoyed the trip a lo., I want to say that the folks who run the quarry were very kind and accomodating hosts, and everyone was grateful. It was a very long drive back to WV home, tho. I could barely walk that evening when we got home. Sunday was truly a day of rest, and I was safely back at work Monday morning! Next Saturday is another scheduled quarry visit, all the way up near Toledo, OH, and if I can get away Friday afternoon early, I think we'll try it again. MSHA cert required, along with hard hat, safety glasses, and hard-toed boots! Fortunately, the next trip is several weeks off, so I'll have some recovery time. This hobby is tough on us older folks! and that's a good thing. No proofreading, here it is...warts and all... Keep on rockin' JR in WV --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Jul 20 07:16:13 2006 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Jul 20 07:16:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? In-Reply-To: <44BEB4A8.400B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001501c6ac07$0f1b6540$0500a8c0@okapi> Wow... Right in one! You get 15 points. Have you read one of his other books, Fire? GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski [mailto:Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:42 PM > To: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A > mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? > > Gary Brown wrote: > > > > For 15 points, NAME THE BOOK that gave the push to > "officially" name > > tropical storms after women. > > > > GcB > > Gary, > > Are you thinking of 'Storms' by George Stewart in the early > 1940s? It inspired a Disney movie, and is generally credited > as standardizing the practice of using women's names for > hurricanes by meterologists in the services during WWII. BTW, > the practice of using women's names was not officially > adopted until 1953. > > Kreigh From albalmer at att.net Thu Jul 20 08:16:00 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jul 20 08:16:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Murfreesboro fee dig area In-Reply-To: <00ae01c6ab9c$dfbcfb70$6b01a8c0@rock3> References: <200607200102.k6K11tTC026903@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <00ae01c6ab9c$dfbcfb70$6b01a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:36:07 -0700, "Rock Currier" wrote: >I noted with interest the report from Ollen of the fee dig in Murfreesboro >at the kimberlite. I was not aware that kimberlites produced agates, jasper >or amethyst. Does anyone know if they do or not, and if not, do they "salt" >the diggings with agate and amethyst for the people not lucky enough o find >a real diamond? >Rock > The list of minerals found at Murfreesboro is a long one. In particular (according to a fellow I met there who worked for the park) there were once huge amounts of amethyst. He said that early miners piled it up as tailings, and eventually it was stolen by someone with a better appreciation for it. There are a few people who actually make a living digging there. One bragged about making 10,000 dollars the previous year (at the time, a living wage, but I made more as an engineer.) -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From albalmer at att.net Thu Jul 20 08:20:45 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jul 20 08:20:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [OT] popinjay contest In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060719212506.047bfd28@mail.hawaiiantel.net> References: <44BEFD2A.341E@Tomaszewski.net> <001e01c6abb1$c6c04bd0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <6.2.1.2.0.20060719212506.047bfd28@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <9p7vb25h6jumla7f23ts65j7d4l5gmlvit@4ax.com> On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:34:13 -1000, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: >If Axel isn't melting too much in the heat he will probably respond, but I >believe the popinjay contest involves sooting straight up with a bow and >arrow at a very small target at the top of a very tall pole. He can >probably send you pics if you ask off list. > >Aloha, Kitty I suppose you want to do this from upwind. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jul 20 10:15:58 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jul 20 10:16:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [OT] popinjay contest Message-ID: <072020061715.13725.44BFBA4E0000BBD90000359D215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Well, the interesting the things one learns on this List! And they may not have anything to do with rocks (hmmm, this one... quite totally does not, does it). When Axel said that, I only interpeted it from the only meaning I knew of for "popinjay", something like this when I looked it up online, popinjay n 1: a vain and talkative person (chatters like a parrot) So I assumed it meant he was going off to some kind of contest where he chatters away foolishly, who knows what odd things Axel might be doing... But now I know about the other means, which I also found described at length in a Wikipedia article, noting that the contest is also done with guns as much as bow and arrow. Who knows, maybe if that's what he's up to, Axel does it by throwing rocks! Pete -------------- Original message from Kitty & Bill Heacox : -------------- > If Axel isn't melting too much in the heat he will probably respond, but I > believe the popinjay contest involves sooting straight up with a bow and > arrow at a very small target at the top of a very tall pole. He can > probably send you pics if you ask off list. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > At 06:05 PM 7/19/2006, you wrote: > >I'd like to know myself, what is a "popinjay" contest? > >Jeanette > > > >>Axel Emmermann wrote: > >>> I'll be looking > >>>up instead of down since I'm going to compete in a popinjay contest. > >>> > >>>Axel > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 20 11:56:10 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 20 11:55:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad In-Reply-To: <44BEFD2A.341E@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Shooting, Kreigh! There's an older word for it: papinga (or popinga), which means "parrot". So actually we're shooting "parrots" of a pole. Summer targets are about 1*0.5 or 2*1 cm big (depending on which club and who organises the contest) and 27 to 30 meters high. It has nothing to do with collecting rocks but like Larry already mentioned... it's a summer low for rock-talk. Especially if you're into fluorescent rocks. Field trips start much to late in this season. Keep cool if you can Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kreigh Tomaszewski Verzonden: donderdag 20 juli 2006 4:52 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad Axel Emmermann wrote: > > My wits have evaporated, Larry... > Forecast for today : 38 centigrade or 100.4 Fahrenheit in the shade. > Hottest day of the year so far. > My mind will be as far away from rocks as possible. In fact, I'll be looking > up instead of down since I'm going to compete in a popinjay contest. > > Axel Axel, Are you talking, or shooting? Popinjay is a fun, old, word with multiple meanings. Kreigh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 20 11:56:11 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 20 11:55:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad actually popinjay contest In-Reply-To: <001e01c6abb1$c6c04bd0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: Imagine a pole of about 30 meters 90 feet) high Perched on that pole there are some wooden cylinders with a feather attached to them. You stand under the pole with a bow (either a compound bow like I have, or a longbow) and try to shoot the "birds-parrots" of their pin. Amazingly difficult and very rewarding if you get the hang of it. The rewards are a stiff neck and whatever prices there are set on a specific bird... You can win a bottle of wine, a glass of beer, a bottle of jenever... Typically prices are liquid ;-))) I'll send you some photos if you like. (and anyone else who wants to learn about this fun sport). Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee Verzonden: donderdag 20 juli 2006 5:06 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors Onderwerp: Re: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad actually popinjay contest I'd like to know myself, what is a "popinjay" contest? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:52 PM Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad > Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >> My wits have evaporated, Larry... >> Forecast for today : 38 centigrade or 100.4 Fahrenheit in the shade. >> Hottest day of the year so far. >> My mind will be as far away from rocks as possible. In fact, I'll be >> looking >> up instead of down since I'm going to compete in a popinjay contest. >> >> Axel > > Axel, > > Are you talking, or shooting? > > Popinjay is a fun, old, word with multiple meanings. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Wed Jul 19 18:13:19 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Thu Jul 20 11:56:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] King tut's gem indicates space impact Message-ID: <44BED8AF.5060202@jeanniusdesigns.com> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5196362.stm -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 20 12:06:16 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 20 12:05:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [OT] popinjay contest In-Reply-To: <072020061715.13725.44BFBA4E0000BBD90000359D215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: >Who knows, maybe if that's what he's up to, Axel does it by throwing rocks! Yo pete! More specifically: specimenes of CaCu[H3AlSi2O9] or papagoite LOL Axel From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jul 20 12:12:00 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jul 20 12:12:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw Message-ID: <7aac8040607201212yf074e10x12c42f3dccac3c10@mail.gmail.com> Finally acquired my first slab saw late last night, and have been trying to find suitable oil in my area that I can use. I have found the topics on the Internet, which oils to use, but it is always a brand name instead of a certain weight. The names I have found are, Chevron Superla #5, Texaco Almag, Standard RPM Flushing Oil, Shell Pella 21, Arco Calube SIOS. I called my local oil supplier (heating oil, gasoline, etc, etc) and asked them about some of the names that I saw on the Internet, he was dumbfounded and had only heard of Superla #5, although they did not keep it in stock. They did have some "Metal Working Fluid 503" that he said sounded like it would work. I didn't want to bite, until I found out if it would work. I ended up buying 2 gallons of mineral oil from the local farm supply store (sold as a mild laxative), will this work? Would hydraulic fluid work? For future reference, what should I be looking for? I wanted to get it local, not only because I like buying local, but because of the shipping rates too. Sorry so many questions, just a newbie to slab saws. Thanks, Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 20 12:16:19 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 20 12:15:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] King tut's gem indicates space impact In-Reply-To: <44BED8AF.5060202@jeanniusdesigns.com> Message-ID: Will watch BBC2 tonight: King Tutanchamons Fireball. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanne Rhodes Moen Verzonden: donderdag 20 juli 2006 2:13 Aan: undisclosed-recipients: Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] King tut's gem indicates space impact http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5196362.stm -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jul 20 12:26:23 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jul 20 12:25:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? In-Reply-To: <003101c6abab$cec6cc10$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: I'd never have imagined they need a book for that... LOL Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee Verzonden: donderdag 20 juli 2006 4:23 Aan: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailinglist for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? Key Largo???? or was that only a movie.. Jeanette >>for 15 points, NAME THE BOOK that gave the push to "officially" name > tropical storms after women. > > GcB > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From zebulon at isr.umich.edu Thu Jul 20 12:26:46 2006 From: zebulon at isr.umich.edu (Peter Sparks) Date: Thu Jul 20 12:26:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <7aac8040607201212yf074e10x12c42f3dccac3c10@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E49D9AE17@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu> Without getting too technical, oil viscosities are measured in different units (cSt, SUS, SAE, ...). There is a huge range of oil qualities out there for different applications. You're looking for a relatively lightweight oil (yes, I think your mineral oil will work). I've been researching using food grade mineral oil, and during the course of my research I found the following. Almag: 9.49 cSt at 40 C, flashpoint 295 F Pella: 4.0 cSt at 40 C, flashpoint 285 F Look at these two web pages to get an idea where the cSt rating fits with other units. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html http://www.synlube.com/viscosit.htm If you're not sure about the oil then get a sample of your oil, test it out on a trim saw with agates, and then see how well the rock dust settles, how hot the agate gets, how much spray & mist you're getting, any foam, cleanup, gelling, ... Then get the larger quantity. -- Peter -----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] >On Behalf Of Drew >Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:12 PM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw > >Finally acquired my first slab saw late last night, and have been trying to find suitable > >I ended up buying 2 gallons of mineral oil from the local farm supply store (sold as a >>mild laxative), will this work? > >Thanks, >Drew From Lapidry at aol.com Thu Jul 20 13:07:54 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 20 13:08:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw Message-ID: <586.143dbe4.31f13c9a@aol.com> In a message dated 7/20/2006 3:12:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dr00bert@gmail.com writes: I ended up buying 2 gallons of mineral oil from the local farm supply store (sold as a mild laxative), will this work? Drew: The mineral oil has the advantage of being nearly odor free. Can I ask what it costs as a farm supply item? Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jul 20 13:15:05 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jul 20 13:15:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <586.143dbe4.31f13c9a@aol.com> References: <586.143dbe4.31f13c9a@aol.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040607201315v640cb1c0p9629bedae4c4576e@mail.gmail.com> It cost me a little over $20 for 2 gallons, although I am working to find a veterinary supply company that I can get it in 5 gallons (if it works!). The Southern States Coop I went to only had quarts, at $6.50 a pop! There are no ingredients, so I am assuming that it is 100% mineral oil. Drew On 7/20/06, Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 7/20/2006 3:12:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > dr00bert@gmail.com writes: > > I ended up buying 2 gallons of mineral oil from the local farm supply > store > (sold as a mild laxative), will this work? > > > > Drew: > > The mineral oil has the advantage of being nearly odor free. Can I ask > what > it costs as a farm supply item? > > Dan > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Lapidry at aol.com Thu Jul 20 13:20:15 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Thu Jul 20 13:20:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw Message-ID: <265.d796dd8.31f13f7f@aol.com> In a message dated 7/20/2006 4:15:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dr00bert@gmail.com writes: It cost me a little over $20 for 2 gallons, although I am working to find a veterinary supply company that I can get it in 5 gallons (if it works!). The Southern States Coop I went to only had quarts, at $6.50 a pop! There are no ingredients, so I am assuming that it is 100% mineral oil. Drew The reason I asked is WalMart sells 20 ounce bottles of baby oil for $1.40 or less, depending on location. It's the Equate brand. Works out to about $9 a gallon. Nice to know that there's another source in that price range. This isn't much of a horse area so the farm stores are few and far between. This was a suggestion a month or so ago from another list member. It's slightly scented but this hasn't been an issue. Thanks, Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From totis99 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 20 13:36:27 2006 From: totis99 at yahoo.com (teresa otis) Date: Thu Jul 20 13:36:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Murfreesboro diamonds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060720203627.32121.qmail@web36715.mail.mud.yahoo.com> There are many gems and minerals at the Crater of Diamonds State Park besides the diamonds. I could only remember a few and not being technically educated on them I found a link that may provide more information for you. The primary difference being it is a lamporite 'pipe' not kimberlite. That part of the state is a serious conjunction of earthquake, glacial, and volcanic (such as Murfreesboro and Magnet Cove) which is why it is such a tremendous place to be a rockhound. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamproite Teresa Otis > >at the kimberlite. I was not aware that kimberlites > produced agates, jasper > >or amethyst. Does anyone know if they do or not, > and if not, do they "salt" > >the diggings with agate and amethyst for the people > not lucky enough o find > >a real diamond? > >Rock > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 20 15:15:47 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jul 20 15:15:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad actually popinjay contest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060720221547.5943.qmail@web34312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sounds like it could be dangerous, since what goes up, must come down! Jim Daly Axel Emmermann wrote: Imagine a pole of about 30 meters 90 feet) high Perched on that pole there are some wooden cylinders with a feather attached to them. You stand under the pole with a bow (either a compound bow like I have, or a longbow) and try to shoot the "birds-parrots" of their pin. Amazingly difficult and very rewarding if you get the hang of it. The rewards are a stiff neck and whatever prices there are set on a specific bird... You can win a bottle of wine, a glass of beer, a bottle of jenever... Typically prices are liquid ;-))) I'll send you some photos if you like. (and anyone else who wants to learn about this fun sport). Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee Verzonden: donderdag 20 juli 2006 5:06 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors Onderwerp: Re: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad actually popinjay contest I'd like to know myself, what is a "popinjay" contest? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:52 PM Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad > Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >> My wits have evaporated, Larry... >> Forecast for today : 38 centigrade or 100.4 Fahrenheit in the shade. >> Hottest day of the year so far. >> My mind will be as far away from rocks as possible. In fact, I'll be >> looking >> up instead of down since I'm going to compete in a popinjay contest. >> >> Axel > > Axel, > > Are you talking, or shooting? > > Popinjay is a fun, old, word with multiple meanings. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 20 15:15:49 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jul 20 15:15:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad actually popinjay contest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060720221549.4906.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sounds like it could be dangerous, since what goes up, must come down! Jim Daly Axel Emmermann wrote: Imagine a pole of about 30 meters 90 feet) high Perched on that pole there are some wooden cylinders with a feather attached to them. You stand under the pole with a bow (either a compound bow like I have, or a longbow) and try to shoot the "birds-parrots" of their pin. Amazingly difficult and very rewarding if you get the hang of it. The rewards are a stiff neck and whatever prices there are set on a specific bird... You can win a bottle of wine, a glass of beer, a bottle of jenever... Typically prices are liquid ;-))) I'll send you some photos if you like. (and anyone else who wants to learn about this fun sport). Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee Verzonden: donderdag 20 juli 2006 5:06 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors Onderwerp: Re: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad actually popinjay contest I'd like to know myself, what is a "popinjay" contest? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:52 PM Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad > Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >> My wits have evaporated, Larry... >> Forecast for today : 38 centigrade or 100.4 Fahrenheit in the shade. >> Hottest day of the year so far. >> My mind will be as far away from rocks as possible. In fact, I'll be >> looking >> up instead of down since I'm going to compete in a popinjay contest. >> >> Axel > > Axel, > > Are you talking, or shooting? > > Popinjay is a fun, old, word with multiple meanings. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 20 15:57:14 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jul 20 15:57:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? In-Reply-To: <001501c6ac07$0f1b6540$0500a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <20060720225714.68104.qmail@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Can't resist the temptation to nit-pick: The title was Storm, not Storms. It was about a specific storm named Maria (not a mineral name). And I do have both books in my library. Jim Daly Gary Brown wrote: Wow... Right in one! You get 15 points. Have you read one of his other books, Fire? GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski [mailto:Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:42 PM > To: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A > mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] tropical storme named after mineral? > > Gary Brown wrote: > > > > For 15 points, NAME THE BOOK that gave the push to > "officially" name > > tropical storms after women. > > > > GcB > > Gary, > > Are you thinking of 'Storms' by George Stewart in the early > 1940s? It inspired a Disney movie, and is generally credited > as standardizing the practice of using women's names for > hurricanes by meterologists in the services during WWII. BTW, > the practice of using women's names was not officially > adopted until 1953. > > Kreigh _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Thu Jul 20 16:07:33 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jul 20 16:07:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <7aac8040607201315v640cb1c0p9629bedae4c4576e@mail.gmail.com> References: <586.143dbe4.31f13c9a@aol.com> <7aac8040607201315v640cb1c0p9629bedae4c4576e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2330c2tomshtlln3o1shh5sebgfrcmkch9@4ax.com> On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:15:05 -0400, Drew wrote: >It cost me a little over $20 for 2 gallons, although I am working to find a >veterinary supply company that I can get it in 5 gallons (if it works!). >The Southern States Coop I went to only had quarts, at $6.50 a pop! There >are no ingredients, so I am assuming that it is 100% mineral oil. > That's about half the cost of the commercial food-grade oils sold by lapidary shops. Let us know how you like it. >Drew > > >On 7/20/06, Lapidry@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> In a message dated 7/20/2006 3:12:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> dr00bert@gmail.com writes: >> >> I ended up buying 2 gallons of mineral oil from the local farm supply >> store >> (sold as a mild laxative), will this work? >> >> >> >> Drew: >> >> The mineral oil has the advantage of being nearly odor free. Can I ask >> what >> it costs as a farm supply item? >> >> Dan -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jul 20 16:54:04 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jul 20 16:54:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E49D9AE17@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu> References: <7aac8040607201212yf074e10x12c42f3dccac3c10@mail.gmail.com> <6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E49D9AE17@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu> Message-ID: <7aac8040607201654he363230t47b79ef38e835b51@mail.gmail.com> On 7/20/06, Peter Sparks wrote: > > Look at these two web pages to get an idea where the cSt rating fits > with other units. > http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html > > http://www.synlube.com/viscosit.htm Thanks for the links Peter, I have gotten a little more familiar with oils now. Thanks, Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jul 20 17:07:25 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jul 20 17:07:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <2330c2tomshtlln3o1shh5sebgfrcmkch9@4ax.com> References: <586.143dbe4.31f13c9a@aol.com> <7aac8040607201315v640cb1c0p9629bedae4c4576e@mail.gmail.com> <2330c2tomshtlln3o1shh5sebgfrcmkch9@4ax.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040607201707v76d84248j423d8f7de77d7f42@mail.gmail.com> On 7/20/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > That's about half the cost of the commercial food-grade oils sold by > lapidary shops. Let us know how you like it. > After arming myself with a putty knife, screwdriver and wet/dry vac, I have started cleaning the saw up. I have found that the power-feed is not working properly, so that will have to be worked on before I can run it. I haven't even plugged it up and tested it yet, just thought cleaning it would be the first step. Since I haven't done any of this before, I am not sure my "review" of the oil would be the best in the world, but I will give you my observations. Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Thu Jul 20 18:06:24 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Thu Jul 20 18:06:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw Message-ID: <3f1d4102f0728e1a7eb6717ec55b0bbe@comcast.net> Drew found veterinary mineral oil! I have been looking for that since I read of that form of food grade mineral oil. Forms of food grade mineral oil include laxative mineral oil, baby oil and veterinary mineral oil. There apparently is no place to buy food grade mineral oil as food grade mineral oil. At least a major food service (Gordon's) in Grand Rapids never heard of the stuff. At $10 a gallon Drew's find is more expensive than Walmart baby oil at about $8.50 per gallon. Since this is generally sold as horse laxative (I love google) maybe it comes in larger sizes, 5 or 10 gallon or larger sizes. I can only imagine a dose for a horse! One of our list members has been editing an article covering Walmart oil for his club. Ron found the idea on a Yahoo rockhound list and liked it and passed the idea on to me. I've passed it on to as many as I can. Sure beats Kingsley's price + no shipping. However you do have to buy a lot of 20 oz bottles. All oil mist is dangerous, make that deadly, to the lungs. The main advantage of food grade mineral oil (which should not to be confused with hardware store mineral oil) is that it is naturally low misting. However even that mist must be allowed to settle or be vented for safety. John J From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Thu Jul 20 18:54:58 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Thu Jul 20 19:05:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] King tut's gems from space impact? References: <44BEF81B.5070400@jeanniusdesigns.com> <44BEFD1D.3030105@jeanniusdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000201c6ac6a$444aee30$570ba118@feldsparflash> Jeanne, The sites you sent were very informative. Several years ago I purchased a specimen of yellow impact glass from Libya. I was told the sand that vaporizred and then cooled was very pure, hence the light clear color. The piece had been sand blasted over the years making it lightly frosted with roundish indentations. It is a prize in my collection of meteorites and impact glass. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanne Rhodes Moen" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 11:48 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] King tut's gems from space impact? > Interesting article at BBC > > Tut's gem hints at space impact > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5196362.stm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com > > > Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com > > *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* > > *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jul 20 19:47:49 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jul 20 19:47:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw References: <3f1d4102f0728e1a7eb6717ec55b0bbe@comcast.net> Message-ID: <44C0404A.55A4@Tomaszewski.net> John Joldersma wrote: > There apparently is no place to buy food grade mineral oil as food > grade mineral oil. John, Food grade mineral oil can be purchased from STE Oil Company (www.steoil.com). I found them with a quick google search. I am sure there are other vendors. I have not (yet) tried this type of oil. Their crystal plus 70 food grade not only meets all government requirements (FDA, USP, and NF), but is Kosher too. It costs $12.22 a gallon, or $59.55 for five gallons. Their heavier crystal plus 200 technical grade costs $12.62 for a gallon, or $61.55 for five gallons. They also have heavier viscosity oils in food grade and technical grade at slightly higher prices (the technical grades are slightly cheaper than the food grade at each weight). You will have to call them for bulk pricing, but they can deliver 55 gal barrels to a tanker truck. BTW, folks who make knives have most of the same requirements as lapidary when looking for their quenching oils. Checking some of the knife making forums found the same discussions about oils, and turned up transmission fluid as another alternative (but you have to watch out for the additives in that mineral oil). I just wanted to set the record straight that you can buy food grade mineral oil. Kreigh From kadok at infowest.com Thu Jul 20 20:59:48 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Jul 20 20:59:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <586.143dbe4.31f13c9a@aol.com> Message-ID: <000801c6ac7a$1c6115b0$0200a8c0@kadok> Mineral oil also has the reputation (well-deserved) of gumming up your saw blade after awhile. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lapidry@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:08 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw In a message dated 7/20/2006 3:12:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dr00bert@gmail.com writes: I ended up buying 2 gallons of mineral oil from the local farm supply store (sold as a mild laxative), will this work? Drew: The mineral oil has the advantage of being nearly odor free. Can I ask what it costs as a farm supply item? Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Lapidry at aol.com Fri Jul 21 03:50:34 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Fri Jul 21 03:50:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw Message-ID: <2e3.a659f9b.31f20b7a@aol.com> In a message dated 7/21/2006 12:00:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kadok@infowest.com writes: Mineral oil also has the reputation (well-deserved) of gumming up your saw blade after awhile. Margaret I've been using it for ages in several saws due to a wife who can't stand the smell of Pella or Almag. I haven't had one bit of gumming up on the blade. The rock does a wonderful job of keeping the blade clean. Not like a regular saw cutting sappy pine, I have had to clean resin off router and saw blades many times. What does happen though is the rock dust, after a while, quite's settling out and the oil itself gets to about the consistency of pudding. You don't see that with Almag or Pella. I don't know that I'm changing the oil any sooner though. To be honest, I never kept track based on total usage. You can recover some of the oil from the pudding by filtering it through paper sacks and it is about the same consistency as the original oil, just amber colored. Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Fri Jul 21 06:45:23 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jul 21 06:45:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <2e3.a659f9b.31f20b7a@aol.com> References: <2e3.a659f9b.31f20b7a@aol.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060721062126.046847e8@orerockon.com> Vegetable oil will definitely create a varnish and turn to goo in a rock saw. Mineral oil will not. That said, it is not the best coolant, as has been discussed on this list ad nauseum. I stick with oils manufactured for use as coolants. Using mineral oil over the long term is harder on all the components of your saw than using cutting or machine lubricants. At 03:50 AM 7/21/2006, you wrote: > >In a message dated 7/21/2006 12:00:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >kadok@infowest.com writes: > >Mineral oil also has the reputation (well-deserved) of gumming up your saw >blade after awhile. > >Margaret > > > >I've been using it for ages in several saws due to a wife who can't stand >the smell of Pella or Almag. I haven't had one bit of gumming up on >the blade. >The rock does a wonderful job of keeping the blade clean. Not like a regular >saw cutting sappy pine, I have had to clean resin off router and saw blades >many times. > >What does happen though is the rock dust, after a while, quite's settling >out and the oil itself gets to about the consistency of pudding. You >don't see >that with Almag or Pella. I don't know that I'm changing the oil any sooner >though. To be honest, I never kept track based on total usage. You >can recover >some of the oil from the pudding by filtering it through paper sacks and it >is about the same consistency as the original oil, just amber colored. > >Dan Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From italianminerals at libero.it Fri Jul 21 07:40:17 2006 From: italianminerals at libero.it (Italian Minerals) Date: Fri Jul 21 07:40:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] onoratoite Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060721163620.01c29548@libero.it> Hi there, I have a small flat of the rare onoratoite (http://www.webmineral.com/data/Onoratoite.shtml) from Le Cetine di Cotorniano mine, Siena, Italy (type locality). All specimens have nice 0.5-1 mm acicular crystals in clusters, visible on the basaltic matrix. Who is intersted can contact me offlist. Thanks, Alessandro -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/394 - Release Date: 20/07/2006 From gbryl95 at rollanet.org Thu Jul 20 19:41:35 2006 From: gbryl95 at rollanet.org (Ray Prater, Jr.) Date: Fri Jul 21 09:06:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Effect of lightning on granite References: <070520061841.21627.44AC07CA00045FA30000547B216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <025b01c6acdf$a04e2c40$115ce5d8@dell> I can't remember taking any pictures but I do remember seeing a number of shallow 3-4 inch pockmarks on top of Stone Mountain in Georgia that were said to have been caused by lightning strikes. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: pjmodreski@att.net To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Small electrical shocks during a lightningstormonMt. Antero I have (as all of us have) always heard about this too, but in years of climbing around on hills and mountains, I have never yet seen such a melted/blasted patch on a rock, nor have I ever even seen a picture of one, so I'll be pleased if someone on the List can share one! My personal guess is that most likely when lightning hits a rock, it explodes and spalls off parts of the rock from vaporizing moisture inside the rock, and one is more likely to just see a freshly broken surface than an actual melted one. But since I've never seen one, I am still just guessing. Pete From albalmer at att.net Fri Jul 21 09:15:41 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Jul 21 09:16:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw In-Reply-To: <000801c6ac7a$1c6115b0$0200a8c0@kadok> References: <586.143dbe4.31f13c9a@aol.com> <000801c6ac7a$1c6115b0$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <68v1c21fir7es26vqvsabjtdg6l3mgakkr@4ax.com> On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:59:48 -0600, "Margaret Malm" wrote: > >Mineral oil also has the reputation (well-deserved) of gumming up your saw >blade after awhile. You're probably thinking of organic oils. (Vegetable oil, and the like.) Mineral oil doesn't do that, though of course it gets dirty and needs to be changed or filtered. > >Margaret > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lapidry@aol.com >Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 1:08 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Oil for slab saw > > >In a message dated 7/20/2006 3:12:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >dr00bert@gmail.com writes: > >I ended up buying 2 gallons of mineral oil from the local farm supply store >(sold as a mild laxative), will this work? > > > >Drew: > >The mineral oil has the advantage of being nearly odor free. Can I ask what > >it costs as a farm supply item? > >Dan > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jul 21 09:53:20 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jul 21 09:52:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad actually popinjay contest In-Reply-To: <20060720221549.4906.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: We're seriously off topic and I'll cut it out if anyone complains ;-))) As long as we're riding the heat wave an no one talks shop: My wife, Christel caught a falling arrow, launched by our son, on the head. 18 stitches ad a pint of blood. I went to work with two black and blue fingers for about a month and last month I lost 1 square centimeter of skin when an arrow grazed my wrist. It's worth it, though. Complete relaxation, complete focus... men and woman alike... Our youngest member is 15 years old, the Nestor of our club is 83. We haul beer in great quantities with a befriended couple. He's 80, she's 73 (my wife and I are respectively 47 and 54). Conclusion: popinjay is the great equalizer that keeps you fit and young ;-))) and now, back to rocks? Cheers to all my American friends Axel (after two ice-cold mojitos in 96? in the shade) -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jim Daly Verzonden: donderdag 20 juli 2006 23:16 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad actually popinjay contest Sounds like it could be dangerous, since what goes up, must come down! Jim Daly Axel Emmermann wrote: Imagine a pole of about 30 meters 90 feet) high Perched on that pole there are some wooden cylinders with a feather attached to them. You stand under the pole with a bow (either a compound bow like I have, or a longbow) and try to shoot the "birds-parrots" of their pin. Amazingly difficult and very rewarding if you get the hang of it. The rewards are a stiff neck and whatever prices there are set on a specific bird... You can win a bottle of wine, a glass of beer, a bottle of jenever... Typically prices are liquid ;-))) I'll send you some photos if you like. (and anyone else who wants to learn about this fun sport). Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Jeanette Wimpee Verzonden: donderdag 20 juli 2006 5:06 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors Onderwerp: Re: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad actually popinjay contest I'd like to know myself, what is a "popinjay" contest? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 10:52 PM Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Summer Sale- Ad > Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >> My wits have evaporated, Larry... >> Forecast for today : 38 centigrade or 100.4 Fahrenheit in the shade. >> Hottest day of the year so far. >> My mind will be as far away from rocks as possible. In fact, I'll be >> looking >> up instead of down since I'm going to compete in a popinjay contest. >> >> Axel > > Axel, > > Are you talking, or shooting? > > Popinjay is a fun, old, word with multiple meanings. > > Kreigh > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocknate at gmail.com Fri Jul 21 09:58:31 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Fri Jul 21 09:58:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] field trip report - IGI quarry in Anderson, IN In-Reply-To: <20060720115302.46604.qmail@web56311.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060720115302.46604.qmail@web56311.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi J.R; Thanks for the report. I was especially interested in it because Anderson, Indiana is my home town! A couple of years ago a pretty golden calcite from the Irving quarry in Anderson appeared in the "Only a Calcite" article in Rocks and Minerals. Since I used to live only about 5 miles from that quarry, it made me wish that I had taken up mineral collecting before I moved to New England. This just proves the truth of the saying " Too soon old, and too late smart". Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 7/20/06, J. R. Hodel wrote: > > Hi: > > Last weekend Dan and I took a flying trip from Charleston WV to Columbus, > OH, (Thursday evening) to Anderson IN (Friday evening) and back home to > nearby Charleston WV Saturday afternoon and evening. > > Friday we attended an MSHA safety class provided by the Ohio DNR Mining > enforcement group (sorry I don't have the exact title of their unit, they > did a great job). There were nearly 30 folks in the class, which was a > Midwest Friends of Mineralogy function. The class is required by many > quarries for anyone attending a collecting day. > ---snip----- > The IGI quarry is known for calcite crystals in vugs, I found one piece > with 3 different habits/colors of calcite on it, there were at least 4 > readily available. The best were perhaps the large clear golden crystals, > they looked like dodecahedrons to my unskilled eye, and even when there were > a lot of cleavages from the rock being first broken by explosives and then > pushed around by heavy equipment they were really pretty. > > Another very popular habit was small flat-laying rhombs that were > irridescent, perhaps from microscopic pyrite crystals? Very pretty, and > less likely to be damaged by the industrial activity. > > The area we were allowed to collect in was in a very shallow part of the > quarry, there was a low hi-wall about 20-30 feeet high, with 15-25 feet of > rubble pushed up against it. The limestone was pretty hard, and was rough > with a sparkley look to it, I suppose perhaps micro crystals of calcite from > the various episodes of mineralizations. > > Some people went right up the rubble piles to the top of the highwall and > started working the broken but in-situ bedrock, and others mostly went > through the rubble, turning over likely rocks looking for a pretty one, and > this is mostly what I did. Much of the golden calcite appeared to > completely fill crevices in the bedrock, and then break into cleavages when > the bedrock was opened up. > > The safety lessons of the day before were reinforced by visiting the IGI > quarry the very next day. Highwall safety was a large part of the class, > and when we noticed someone banging on the highwall under loose looking > rock, we went over and called it to their attention. No one was rude about > it, and everyone seemed glad for any warning. > > By the time we left (about noon) no one had suffered anything past a > band-aid scratch, and we enjoyed the trip a lo., > > I want to say that the folks who run the quarry were very kind and > accomodating hosts, and everyone was grateful. > ----snip---------- > Keep on rockin' > JR in WV > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Jul 21 19:07:26 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Jul 21 19:07:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock arrowheads actually popinjay contest Message-ID: You could tip your arrows with knapped agate or other stone points. Sounds kinda like our old outlawed lawn darts. Glenn {:={)} From: axel.emmermann@pandora.be We're seriously off topic and I'll cut it out if anyone complains ;-))) As long as we're riding the heat wave an no one talks shop: My wife, Christel caught a falling arrow, launched by our son, on the head. 18 stitches ad a pint of blood. I went to work with two black and blue fingers for about a month and last month I lost 1 square centimeter of skin when an arrow grazed my wrist. It's worth it, though. Complete relaxation, complete focus... men and woman alike... Our youngest member is 15 years old, the Nestor of our club is 83.We haul beer in great quantities with a befriended couple. He's 80, she's 73 (my wife and I are respectively 47 and 54). Conclusion: popinjay is the great equalizer that keeps you fit and young ;-))) and now, back to rocks? Cheers to all my American friends Axel (after two ice-cold mojitos in 96? in the shade) _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care about in one place. http://www.live.com/getstarted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Jul 22 02:56:13 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Jul 22 02:55:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock arrowheads actually popinjay contest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We do have a paeleolithic silex mine in Belgium. In Spiennes, to be exact.. Silex from this locatilty was traded as early as 15.000 to 20.000 years ago and as far as Bulgaria. Extra bonus is that some specimens have a rather nice fluorescence ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Glenn Wimpee Verzonden: zaterdag 22 juli 2006 3:07 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Rock arrowheads actually popinjay contest You could tip your arrows with knapped agate or other stone points. Sounds kinda like our old outlawed lawn darts. Glenn {:={)} From: axel.emmermann@pandora.be We're seriously off topic and I'll cut it out if anyone complains ;-))) As long as we're riding the heat wave an no one talks shop: My wife, Christel caught a falling arrow, launched by our son, on the head. 18 stitches ad a pint of blood. I went to work with two black and blue fingers for about a month and last month I lost 1 square centimeter of skin when an arrow grazed my wrist. It's worth it, though. Complete relaxation, complete focus... men and woman alike... Our youngest member is 15 years old, the Nestor of our club is 83.We haul beer in great quantities with a befriended couple. He's 80, she's 73 (my wife and I are respectively 47 and 54). Conclusion: popinjay is the great equalizer that keeps you fit and young ;-))) and now, back to rocks? Cheers to all my American friends Axel (after two ice-cold mojitos in 96? in the shade) _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care about in one place. http://www.live.com/getstarted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Sat Jul 22 17:47:55 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 22 17:47:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Silex (was rock arrowheads) Message-ID: <072320060047.25692.44C2C739000E6F800000645C215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Interesting that you call it "silex", Axel. Here, we would say silica, or, more specifically, chert. I have heard the term silex sometimes used. On times when I've been in Poland with geologists there, we had visited a very interesting (re-excavated underground galleries), likewise, paleolithic chert mine, I forget the exact name of the location now. cheers, Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > We do have a paeleolithic silex mine in Belgium. > In Spiennes, to be exact.. > Silex from this locatilty was traded as early as 15.000 to 20.000 years ago > and as far as Bulgaria. > Extra bonus is that some specimens have a rather nice fluorescence ;-))) > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Glenn Wimpee > Verzonden: zaterdag 22 juli 2006 3:07 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Rock arrowheads actually popinjay contest > > > You could tip your arrows with knapped agate or other stone points. > > Sounds kinda like our old outlawed lawn darts. > Glenn {:={)} > > From: axel.emmermann@pandora.be We're seriously off topic and I'll cut it > out if anyone complains ;-))) As long as we're riding the heat wave an no > one talks shop: My wife, Christel caught a falling arrow, launched by our > son, on the head. 18 stitches ad a pint of blood. I went to work with two > black and blue fingers for about a month and last month I lost 1 square > centimeter of skin when an arrow grazed my wrist. It's worth it, though. > Complete relaxation, complete focus... men and woman alike... Our youngest > member is 15 years old, the Nestor of our club is 83.We haul beer in great > quantities with a befriended couple. He's 80, she's 73 (my wife and I are > respectively 47 and 54). Conclusion: popinjay is the great equalizer that > keeps you fit and young ;-))) and now, back to rocks? Cheers to all my > American friends Axel (after two ice-cold mojitos in 96° in the shade) > _________________________________________________________________ > Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care > about in one place. > http://www.live.com/getstarted > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 19:55:41 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Jul 22 19:55:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil digging between Denver, CO and Portland, OR In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060712055526.034d6068@orerockon.com> References: <200607111749.k6BHnKUB032410@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060711120420.032e0de8@orerockon.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060711162426.03325520@orerockon.com> <003801c6a555$6e839c40$0300a8c0@Notebook> <7.0.0.16.2.20060712055526.034d6068@orerockon.com> Message-ID: The town of Fossil is making a big mistake by imposing a fee and limiting the finds to 3 fossils. It is not on a highway that goes anyplace worth being. The only reason I was there was because of the fossils. I don't think I'll go back that far of the highway for a limit of 3. After driving that far in a motor home the $3 cost is not important.However, I stayed over night at the Fairgrounds RV Park and shopped at the Mercantile. I don't remember how much I spent in town but it was more than 3 bucks. Grant On 7/12/06, Tim Fisher wrote: > Fossil, Ore., charges for namesakes > > > With a single blinking red traffic light and just 23 students now > enrolled in that high school, Fossil could use a shot in the arm. So > far, fossil-hunters have not complained about the $3 fee. > From pjmodreski at att.net Sat Jul 22 20:24:57 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sat Jul 22 20:25:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] to the List: Re: Your mail to info@rkgems.com Message-ID: <072320060324.8088.44C2EC08000C3EF300001F98216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Evidently, everyone who posts a message to Rockhounds gets this automatic reply back from info@rkgems.com when they receive it from the listserv. It's mildly annoying. Can they either please deactivate this function, or can rockhounds@drizzle.com block their autoreplies from going back to the list? Thanks... Pete -------------- Original message from info@rkgems.com: -------------- > Thank you for your mail. We will get back to you as soon as possible. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Sat Jul 22 22:30:38 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Sat Jul 22 22:30:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail to info@rkgems.com Message-ID: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> While on annoyances, I have another... whenever I reply to a post by Al Balmer, unless I remove the alremovebalmerthis@att.net from the reply to line, it comes back as undeliverable. Can this be altered so that whenever Al posts, his address does not come up in the reply to line? Thanks, Drew On 7/22/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Evidently, everyone who posts a message to Rockhounds gets this automatic > reply back from info@rkgems.com when they receive it from the listserv. > It's mildly annoying. Can they either please deactivate this function, or > can rockhounds@drizzle.com block their autoreplies from going back to the > list? Thanks... > Pete > > -------------- Original message from info@rkgems.com: -------------- > > > > Thank you for your mail. We will get back to you as soon as possible. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhound at btinternet.com Sun Jul 23 02:39:44 2006 From: rockhound at btinternet.com (Neil A) Date: Sun Jul 23 02:40:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail toinfo@rkgems.com In-Reply-To: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I know why al balmer has this annoying little addition in his addy. It stops virus propogation by e-mail by making his return addy indirectly inaccessible to a program but allows you with little effort to reply to him. I know al has upset a few on here in the past, but hey, he is usin his head here. Regards Neil A -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Drew Sent: 23 July 2006 06:31 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail toinfo@rkgems.com While on annoyances, I have another... whenever I reply to a post by Al Balmer, unless I remove the alremovebalmerthis@att.net from the reply to line, it comes back as undeliverable. Can this be altered so that whenever Al posts, his address does not come up in the reply to line? Thanks, Drew On 7/22/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Evidently, everyone who posts a message to Rockhounds gets this automatic > reply back from info@rkgems.com when they receive it from the listserv. > It's mildly annoying. Can they either please deactivate this function, or > can rockhounds@drizzle.com block their autoreplies from going back to the > list? Thanks... > Pete > > -------------- Original message from info@rkgems.com: -------------- > > > > Thank you for your mail. We will get back to you as soon as possible. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Sun Jul 23 08:17:42 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sun Jul 23 08:18:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail to info@rkgems.com In-Reply-To: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 01:30:38 -0400, Drew wrote: >While on annoyances, I have another... whenever I reply to a post by Al >Balmer, unless I remove the alremovebalmerthis@att.net from the reply to >line, it comes back as undeliverable. Can this be altered so that whenever >Al posts, his address does not come up in the reply to line? Hi, Drew It seems like you're using your mailer's "Reply to all" function, instead of just "Reply". In that case, my munged address is doing exactly what it's supposed to do, since I don't want an extra copy of the reply. Speaking of annoyances (and I've spoken of this one before) I had to trim three copies of the stuff that the mail list software adds to each message. It seems to me that it would be easy to change this footer to start with a standard signature separator (dash, dash, space on a line by itself.) Then, any standard mailer would automatically remove it. > >Thanks, >Drew > >On 7/22/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >> >> Evidently, everyone who posts a message to Rockhounds gets this automatic >> reply back from info@rkgems.com when they receive it from the listserv. >> It's mildly annoying. Can they either please deactivate this function, or >> can rockhounds@drizzle.com block their autoreplies from going back to the >> list? Thanks... >> Pete >> -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jul 23 09:57:44 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jul 23 09:49:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail to info@rkgems.com References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44C3A881.29DB@Tomaszewski.net> Al is either manually, or through the configuration of his mail client, overriding the Reply-To header the list server sets, and is inserting his email address along with the "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" address. This needs to be fixed by Al. Kreigh Drew wrote: > > While on annoyances, I have another... whenever I reply to a post by Al > Balmer, unless I remove the alremovebalmerthis@att.net from the reply to > line, it comes back as undeliverable. Can this be altered so that whenever > Al posts, his address does not come up in the reply to line? > > Thanks, > Drew > > On 7/22/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > Evidently, everyone who posts a message to Rockhounds gets this automatic > > reply back from info@rkgems.com when they receive it from the listserv. > > It's mildly annoying. Can they either please deactivate this function, or > > can rockhounds@drizzle.com block their autoreplies from going back to the > > list? Thanks... > > Pete > > > > -------------- Original message from info@rkgems.com: -------------- > > > > > > > Thank you for your mail. We will get back to you as soon as possible. From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Jul 23 10:16:55 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Sun Jul 23 10:20:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail toinfo@rkgems.com References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000a01c6ae7b$d100d160$0200a8c0@warren> > > Hi, Drew > > It seems like you're using your mailer's "Reply to all" function, > instead of just "Reply". In that case, my munged address is doing > exactly what it's supposed to do, since I don't want an extra copy of > the reply. > Actually, Al, if I simply hit reply (not reply all) in Outlook Express, your munged address appears in the "to" header along with the Rockhounds address. Not sure why. Julie From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Jul 23 11:53:54 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Jul 23 11:53:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail to info@rkgems.com In-Reply-To: References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I get it all the time and I don't use reply to all, it's something that Al needs to fix on his end. BK On 7/23/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 01:30:38 -0400, Drew wrote: > > >While on annoyances, I have another... whenever I reply to a post by Al > >Balmer, unless I remove the alremovebalmerthis@att.net from the reply to > >line, it comes back as undeliverable. Can this be altered so that > whenever > >Al posts, his address does not come up in the reply to line? > > Hi, Drew > > It seems like you're using your mailer's "Reply to all" function, > instead of just "Reply". In that case, my munged address is doing > exactly what it's supposed to do, since I don't want an extra copy of > the reply. > > Speaking of annoyances (and I've spoken of this one before) I had to > trim three copies of the stuff that the mail list software adds to > each message. It seems to me that it would be easy to change this > footer to start with a standard signature separator (dash, dash, space > on a line by itself.) Then, any standard mailer would automatically > remove it. > > > >Thanks, > >Drew > > > >On 7/22/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > >> > >> Evidently, everyone who posts a message to Rockhounds gets this > automatic > >> reply back from info@rkgems.com when they receive it from the > listserv. > >> It's mildly annoying. Can they either please deactivate this function, > or > >> can rockhounds@drizzle.com block their autoreplies from going back to > the > >> list? Thanks... > >> Pete > >> > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sun Jul 23 12:34:14 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Jul 23 12:34:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail to info@rkgems.com In-Reply-To: References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060723093111.036e99c0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> I got it only once, after replying (not reply to all) to a question from Jeanette, not Al. Aloha, Kitty At 08:53 AM 7/23/2006, you wrote: >I get it all the time and I don't use reply to all, it's something that Al >needs to fix on his end. > >BK From albalmer at att.net Sun Jul 23 13:18:33 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sun Jul 23 13:19:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail to info@rkgems.com In-Reply-To: <44C3A881.29DB@Tomaszewski.net> References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> <44C3A881.29DB@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:57:44 -0400, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >Al is either manually, or through the configuration of his mail client, >overriding the Reply-To header the list server sets, and is inserting >his email address along with the "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list >for rock and gem collectors" address. >This needs to be fixed by Al. > You're half right. The list server is indeed preserving my Reply-To, but there's nothing I can do about it. How do you suggest I could possibly "override" the list server? I have absolutely no control over it. Normally list servers edit their fields quite carefully. What I will do is create another persona with no Reply-To, just for this mailing list. Let's see if it works. >Kreigh > > > > >Drew wrote: >> >> While on annoyances, I have another... whenever I reply to a post by Al >> Balmer, unless I remove the alremovebalmerthis@att.net from the reply to >> line, it comes back as undeliverable. Can this be altered so that whenever >> Al posts, his address does not come up in the reply to line? >> >> Thanks, >> Drew >> >> On 7/22/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >> > >> > Evidently, everyone who posts a message to Rockhounds gets this automatic >> > reply back from info@rkgems.com when they receive it from the listserv. >> > It's mildly annoying. Can they either please deactivate this function, or >> > can rockhounds@drizzle.com block their autoreplies from going back to the >> > list? Thanks... >> > Pete >> > -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jul 23 13:47:09 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jul 23 13:38:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail to info@rkgems.com References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44C3DE24.7333@Tomaszewski.net> Al, Your headers show you are inserting your email address into the Reply-To header when you send to the List. Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail to info@rkgems.com Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 08:17:42 -0700 From: Al Balmer Reply-To: alremovebalmerthis@att.net, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Organization: Balmer Consulting To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" References: 1 instead of relying on the FROM address. The List Server is appending to your existing Reply-To header with the List address. Kreigh Al Balmer wrote: > > On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 01:30:38 -0400, Drew wrote: > > >While on annoyances, I have another... whenever I reply to a post by Al > >Balmer, unless I remove the alremovebalmerthis@att.net from the reply to > >line, it comes back as undeliverable. Can this be altered so that whenever > >Al posts, his address does not come up in the reply to line? > > Hi, Drew > > It seems like you're using your mailer's "Reply to all" function, > instead of just "Reply". In that case, my munged address is doing > exactly what it's supposed to do, since I don't want an extra copy of > the reply. > > Speaking of annoyances (and I've spoken of this one before) I had to > trim three copies of the stuff that the mail list software adds to > each message. It seems to me that it would be easy to change this > footer to start with a standard signature separator (dash, dash, space > on a line by itself.) Then, any standard mailer would automatically > remove it. > > > >Thanks, > >Drew > > > >On 7/22/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > >> > >> Evidently, everyone who posts a message to Rockhounds gets this automatic > >> reply back from info@rkgems.com when they receive it from the listserv. > >> It's mildly annoying. Can they either please deactivate this function, or > >> can rockhounds@drizzle.com block their autoreplies from going back to the > >> list? Thanks... > >> Pete > >> > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sun Jul 23 17:36:40 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sun Jul 23 17:36:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks Pete! Message-ID: <20060724003640.4421.qmail@web56312.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Pete, I was wondering what silex was, and you answered me on the very next email in the digest! It seemed that chert/flint/silica was what was meant from the context, but it's nice to have one's assumptions verified before you say something stupid. I had a Systems Analysis prof write on the board "assume = ass | u | me"; assuming can make an ass of you and me. I've never forgotten that one, nor the KISS principle, keep it simple, stupid! Those two fundamental design principles help inform my successful career. Thanks again, JR --------------------------------- See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Jul 23 18:17:49 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Jul 23 18:17:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail toinfo@rkgems.com References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20060723093111.036e99c0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <004f01c6aebe$fa9fbe30$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> I've never gotten it....am I missing something??? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mail toinfo@rkgems.com >I got it only once, after replying (not reply to all) to a question from >Jeanette, not Al. > > Aloha, Kitty > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Jul 23 18:38:16 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Jul 23 18:38:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mailtoinfo@rkgems.com References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20060723093111.036e99c0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <004f01c6aebe$fa9fbe30$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <007e01c6aec1$d5ce3520$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> Well....what do you know....guess what popped back at me as soon as I posted. If you guessed it was the rkgems autoreply, you were right. Jeanette From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Jul 23 18:46:20 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Jul 23 18:46:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cutting rainbow obsidian Message-ID: <008b01c6aec2$f6a56240$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> Since it's too hot outside to rockhounding, and we're sitting around our computers keeping cool and trying to think of rock related things to say. My inquiring mind wants to know... What is the best angle to cut a large chunk of rainbow obsidian. Across the grain, with the grain, 17 degrees off parallel.....???? I have this 7 lb chunk and am pondering where to start on it. The one sawn side shows bands or striations, the rest is au naturel. Another question....where is a good place to buy rhodochrosite slabs? Other than Tucson.... I'm having no luck on ebay, only small pieces people want too much for. Jeanette --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Sun Jul 23 20:41:40 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Jul 23 20:41:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mailtoinfo@rkgems.com In-Reply-To: <007e01c6aec1$d5ce3520$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20060723093111.036e99c0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <004f01c6aebe$fa9fbe30$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> <007e01c6aec1$d5ce3520$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060723204105.0469be58@orerockon.com> It's someone's autoreply. Whoever you are, figure out your email program and get it fixed. At 06:38 PM 7/23/2006, you wrote: >Well....what do you know....guess what popped back at me as soon as I posted. >If you guessed it was the rkgems autoreply, you were right. > >Jeanette Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From jcharles at csusm.edu Sun Jul 23 21:19:04 2006 From: jcharles at csusm.edu (Jeffrey Charles) Date: Sun Jul 23 21:19:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cutting rainbow obsidian References: <008b01c6aec2$f6a56240$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CCEB969@priority.csusm.edu> I would like to second Jeanette's request, and also ask if there are any tips for polishing. I recently took a loop of Oregon, fitting hasty rock hunting side trips into the camping and hiking vacation that was more desired by my wife and children. Of course I used Tim Fischer's DVD as my guide--it was invaluable. I started with Davis Creek. I won't go into the details, since I know many of you are familiar with the site, except to say it was hot(!) and my kids were mad at me for stopping only briefly to collect obsidian needles at the end of our visit. This is a good tip for you parents and grandparents heading to Davis creek with children--for some reason, needles are more appealing to 9 and 10 year olds than spectacular chunks of rainbow or striped obsidian. I learned another lesson, although professionals who inhabit this list will treat this with the contempt it deserves. Obsidian tends to shatter when hit by a clumsy oaf yielding a claw hammer. Tim Fischer makes it sound so easy--just nip a corner off to see if it is rainbow. And yet I would nip off a corner, study it intently--is that rainbow or not?--and then try to nip off another corner...smash! Yes, that WAS a beautiful piece of rainbow! But before everybody who visits Davis Creek gets too mad at me for destroying collecting possibilities, let me assure you that I didn't ruin much, because my kids were whining to get out of the heat. (If only I stopped by the needles site first!) And I also did find a couple of nice pieces that maybe I can CUT without destroying. Jeff Charles, L.A.R.D. (Lazy Amateur Rockhound Dad) -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com on behalf of Jeanette Wimpee Sent: Sun 7/23/2006 6:46 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors; RockhoundsList@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Cutting rainbow obsidian Since it's too hot outside to rockhounding, and we're sitting around our computers keeping cool and trying to think of rock related things to say. My inquiring mind wants to know... What is the best angle to cut a large chunk of rainbow obsidian. Across the grain, with the grain, 17 degrees off parallel.....???? I have this 7 lb chunk and am pondering where to start on it. The one sawn side shows bands or striations, the rest is au naturel. Another question....where is a good place to buy rhodochrosite slabs? Other than Tucson.... I'm having no luck on ebay, only small pieces people want too much for. Jeanette --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From tim at orerockon.com Sun Jul 23 21:52:45 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Jul 23 21:52:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cutting rainbow obsidian In-Reply-To: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CCEB969@priority.csusm.ed u> References: <008b01c6aec2$f6a56240$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CCEB969@priority.csusm.edu> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060723214715.04447ea0@orerockon.com> There is an art to it, you need to strike a sharp edge at an oblique angle, and "pull" the chip off with the hammer, much like knappers pressure flake obsidian. The needles site is an oven in the afternoon, so I always go there first thing in the morning. Of course the Davis and Lassen pits aren't much better in the afternoon lol. But at least they have a bit of shade. As for cutting rainbow, it depends on what you are doing with it. The knappers prefer it cut exactly parallel to the layers of sheen, since they are "doming" it when they flake a slab. Ditto with slabbing for cabbing. If you are cutting slabs for display, I would go with 10 degrees or so off the plane of the sheen layers. Much more than that and you get very thin bands and the colors are lost or muted. At 09:19 PM 7/23/2006, you wrote: >I would like to second Jeanette's request, and also ask if there are >any tips for polishing. > > I recently took a loop of Oregon, fitting hasty rock hunting side > trips into the camping and hiking vacation that was more desired by > my wife and children. Of course I used Tim Fischer's DVD as my > guide--it was invaluable. > > I started with Davis Creek. I won't go into the details, since I > know many of you are familiar with the site, except to say it was > hot(!) and my kids were mad at me for stopping only briefly to > collect obsidian needles at the end of our visit. This is a good > tip for you parents and grandparents heading to Davis creek with > children--for some reason, needles are more appealing to 9 and 10 > year olds than spectacular chunks of rainbow or striped obsidian. > >I learned another lesson, although professionals who inhabit this >list will treat this with the contempt it deserves. Obsidian tends >to shatter when hit by a clumsy oaf yielding a claw hammer. Tim >Fischer makes it sound so easy--just nip a corner off to see if it >is rainbow. And yet I would nip off a corner, study it intently--is >that rainbow or not?--and then try to nip off another >corner...smash! Yes, that WAS a beautiful piece of rainbow! > >But before everybody who visits Davis Creek gets too mad at me for >destroying collecting possibilities, let me assure you that I didn't >ruin much, because my kids were whining to get out of the heat. (If >only I stopped by the needles site first!) And I also did find a >couple of nice pieces that maybe I can CUT without destroying. > >Jeff Charles, L.A.R.D. (Lazy Amateur Rockhound Dad) Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From albalmer at att.net Sun Jul 23 23:08:17 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sun Jul 23 23:09:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Annoyances Was:to the List: Re: Your mailtoinfo@rkgems.com In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060723204105.0469be58@orerockon.com> References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.1.2.0.20060723093111.036e99c0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <004f01c6aebe$fa9fbe30$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> <007e01c6aec1$d5ce3520$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> <7.0.0.16.2.20060723204105.0469be58@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <3oo8c253etfn6jkhtdth9oruetcsaaios1@4ax.com> On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 20:41:40 -0700, Tim Fisher wrote: >It's someone's autoreply. Whoever you are, figure out your email >program and get it fixed. www.rkgems.com . They're in Pakistan, and apparently they're on holiday, or something. Can't our list monitors remove them from the sanctioned senders until they can be contacted, or wake up? > >At 06:38 PM 7/23/2006, you wrote: >>Well....what do you know....guess what popped back at me as soon as I posted. >>If you guessed it was the rkgems autoreply, you were right. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From albalmer at att.net Sun Jul 23 23:10:59 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sun Jul 23 23:12:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cutting rainbow obsidian In-Reply-To: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CCEB969@priority.csusm.edu> References: <008b01c6aec2$f6a56240$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A> <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0CCEB969@priority.csusm.edu> Message-ID: <11p8c2dn0toh59tjnsj9a65oli98gccdjt@4ax.com> On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 21:19:04 -0700, "Jeffrey Charles" wrote: >I would like to second Jeanette's request, and also ask if there are any tips for polishing. Since it (obsidian) is glass, I'd use cerium oxide. > -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Jul 24 07:28:08 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Mon Jul 24 07:35:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Re: Yourmailtoinfo@rkgems.com References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com><6.2.1.2.0.20060723093111.036e99c0@mail.hawaiiantel.net><004f01c6aebe$fa9fbe30$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A><007e01c6aec1$d5ce3520$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A><7.0.0.16.2.20060723204105.0469be58@orerockon.com> <3oo8c253etfn6jkhtdth9oruetcsaaios1@4ax.com> Message-ID: <003701c6af2d$6796c100$0200a8c0@warren> John unsubscribed them yesterday morning, and sent them an e-mail asking them to fix the problem. They must have resubscribed. I'll have him ban them temporarily later today. Julie > www.rkgems.com . They're in Pakistan, and apparently they're on > holiday, or something. Can't our list monitors remove them from the > sanctioned senders until they can be contacted, or wake up? From totis99 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 24 07:45:09 2006 From: totis99 at yahoo.com (teresa otis) Date: Mon Jul 24 07:45:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] auto reply stuff Message-ID: <20060724144509.89726.qmail@web36705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <<<<<<>>>>>>> Are they a member of the list? The address shouldn't be tied in to the address of rockhounds on a reply, should it? But since it is, if you haven't thought of it already, I suggest using regular the old compose an email, pull the address from your address book, and do cut and paste for the posting info you are replying to and then send. I replied to something Rock asked the other day about Murfreesboro and it happened to me and I innocently thought it was another email address for him tied in with the Rockhounds addy. It appears to be happening to all replies no matter who sent it. If they aren't a member, somehow they have imbedded their address into the replies for the list? I'm only semi computer savvy, but I thought I would look at the source codes on a couple of these. I ended up getting back to an almost original post with the reply I sent to the list for the message from Rock. There is an address there that looks all 'spammy'. Kreigh you know much more about puters than me, does this sound like a logical possibility? Teresa O. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Jul 24 07:53:10 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Jul 24 07:53:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] auto reply stuff In-Reply-To: <20060724144509.89726.qmail@web36705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060724144509.89726.qmail@web36705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040607240753h6a9fbdbboa7cf29fd7c9ef771@mail.gmail.com> It is an autoresponder, meaning that when they receive an email (from anywhere usually, but it can be configured to only autorespond to one address), it automatically replies with that little spiel. There is nothing that can be done on the drizzle end, except of course banning the member. The only way to remove this autoresponder is to do so on the client's computer (or the client's email server). Drew On 7/24/06, teresa otis wrote: > > <<<<<< back at me as soon as I > posted. > If you guessed it was the rkgems autoreply, you were > right. > > Jeanette>>>>>>>> > > Are they a member of the list? The address shouldn't > be tied in to the address of rockhounds on a reply, > should it? But since it is, if you haven't thought of > it already, I suggest using regular the old compose an > email, pull the address from your address book, and do > cut and paste for the posting info you are replying to > and then send. > > I replied to something Rock asked the other day about > Murfreesboro and it happened to me and I innocently > thought it was another email address for him tied in > with the Rockhounds addy. > > It appears to be happening to all replies no matter > who sent it. If they aren't a member, somehow they > have imbedded their address into the replies for the > list? > > I'm only semi computer savvy, but I thought I would > look at the source codes on a couple of these. I > ended up getting back to an almost original post with > the reply I sent to the list for the message from > Rock. There is an address there that looks all > 'spammy'. Kreigh you know much more about puters than > me, does this sound like a logical possibility? > > Teresa O. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jcharles at csusm.edu Mon Jul 24 10:23:18 2006 From: jcharles at csusm.edu (Jeffrey Charles) Date: Mon Jul 24 10:23:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cutting rainbow obsidian Message-ID: <86BF48E0F11BE44D99952F9FB349BC4B0AB82877@priority.csusm.edu> Thanks to Tim Fischer and Al Balmer for the obsidian tips. Jeff Charles From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jul 25 06:44:12 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jul 25 06:43:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Silex (was rock arrowheads) In-Reply-To: <072320060047.25692.44C2C739000E6F800000645C215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Hi Pete, I always forget that Americans use other words than us "old-worlders" ;-))) Chert indeed. We find nodules of it on the Belgian beeches too. I think that the closest correct mineral name is chalcedony. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net Verzonden: zondag 23 juli 2006 1:48 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Silex (was rock arrowheads) Interesting that you call it "silex", Axel. Here, we would say silica, or, more specifically, chert. I have heard the term silex sometimes used. On times when I've been in Poland with geologists there, we had visited a very interesting (re-excavated underground galleries), likewise, paleolithic chert mine, I forget the exact name of the location now. cheers, Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > We do have a paeleolithic silex mine in Belgium. > In Spiennes, to be exact.. > Silex from this locatilty was traded as early as 15.000 to 20.000 years ago > and as far as Bulgaria. > Extra bonus is that some specimens have a rather nice fluorescence ;-))) > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Glenn Wimpee > Verzonden: zaterdag 22 juli 2006 3:07 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Rock arrowheads actually popinjay contest > > > You could tip your arrows with knapped agate or other stone points. > > Sounds kinda like our old outlawed lawn darts. > Glenn {:={)} > > From: axel.emmermann@pandora.be We're seriously off topic and I'll cut it > out if anyone complains ;-))) As long as we're riding the heat wave an no > one talks shop: My wife, Christel caught a falling arrow, launched by our > son, on the head. 18 stitches ad a pint of blood. I went to work with two > black and blue fingers for about a month and last month I lost 1 square > centimeter of skin when an arrow grazed my wrist. It's worth it, though. > Complete relaxation, complete focus... men and woman alike... Our youngest > member is 15 years old, the Nestor of our club is 83.We haul beer in great > quantities with a befriended couple. He's 80, she's 73 (my wife and I are > respectively 47 and 54). Conclusion: popinjay is the great equalizer that > keeps you fit and young ;-))) and now, back to rocks? Cheers to all my > American friends Axel (after two ice-cold mojitos in 96? in the shade) > _________________________________________________________________ > Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care > about in one place. > http://www.live.com/getstarted > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jul 25 06:58:44 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jul 25 06:58:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Silex (was rock arrowheads) Message-ID: <072520061358.28606.44C62393000D792F00006FBE216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi Axel, I looked "silex" up in the AGI Glossary of Geology, it says, "a French term for chert". It adds a bit more, that "silexite" is sometimes used to mean an igneous rock composed mostly of quartz, but that this causes confusion because in French it does simply mean chert. In general, we would call material chalcedony if it is translucent and normally formed in cavities in volcanic rock, and chert, if it is opaque and chalky-looking and normally formed as nodules in sedimentary rock, usually limestone. The traditional technical mineralogic criterion to distinguish them, is that chalcedony and agate have a fibrous microstructure, whereas chert, flint, and jasper have a granular microstructure; but one needs to examine a thin section with a polarized light microscope to make this distinction. P.S. , I've had fun telling a couple of people about what a popinjay contest is! P.P.S., Watch your spelling, Axel, Belgian beeches are trees (if you have them there). Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > Hi Pete, > > I always forget that Americans use other words than us "old-worlders" ;-))) > Chert indeed. > We find nodules of it on the Belgian beeches too. > I think that the closest correct mineral name is chalcedony. > > Cheers > > Axel > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Jul 25 07:13:34 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Jul 25 07:13:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) Message-ID: <7aac8040607250713q325c9bc6s5730fa2391dd2406@mail.gmail.com> Pete, You mention that chert is usually formed as nodules in sedimentary rock. We have a lot of these here in SW VA, in fact my friend's farm has some really weird shaped chunks of chert. Some have really organic shapes, like bones. What causes these nodules to form like they do? Thanks, Drew On 7/25/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Hi Axel, > > I looked "silex" up in the AGI Glossary of Geology, it says, "a French > term for chert". It adds a bit more, that "silexite" is sometimes used to > mean an igneous rock composed mostly of quartz, but that this causes > confusion because in French it does simply mean chert. > > In general, we would call material chalcedony if it is translucent and > normally formed in cavities in volcanic rock, and chert, if it is opaque and > chalky-looking and normally formed as nodules in sedimentary rock, usually > limestone. The traditional technical mineralogic criterion to distinguish > them, is that chalcedony and agate have a fibrous microstructure, whereas > chert, flint, and jasper have a granular microstructure; but one needs to > examine a thin section with a polarized light microscope to make this > distinction. > > P.S. , I've had fun telling a couple of people about what a popinjay > contest is! > P.P.S., Watch your spelling, Axel, Belgian beeches are trees (if you have > them there). > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" < > axel.emmermann@pandora.be>: -------------- > > > > Hi Pete, > > > > I always forget that Americans use other words than us "old-worlders" > ;-))) > > Chert indeed. > > We find nodules of it on the Belgian beeches too. > > I think that the closest correct mineral name is chalcedony. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jul 25 07:17:52 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jul 25 07:17:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] meteorite issue Message-ID: <072520061417.17908.44C6280F00099368000045F4216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> FYI, those on the list might like to know that the current (August 2006) issue of "Astronomy" magazine is a "special meteorite issue", all articles about meteorites, impact craters, and meteors. A friend saw it on the magazine shelves at a supermarket and bought a copy for me; it's a neat item to read & keep; includes articles about Robert Haag, one about collecting meteorites by O. Richard Norton, etc. Pete --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jul 25 07:30:49 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jul 25 07:30:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) Message-ID: <072520061430.1595.44C62B19000413350000063B216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Now, there's a really good question, Drew, the shape of the nodules. I don't think I have any good answer for it. I'm holding in my hand (it was sitting on my desk) a flint nodule from Dover, England. It has an odd twisted shape, yes, a lot like a piece of bone. I don't think I have a good general explanation. The usual story is that the silica that forms the chert or flint nodules has been "remobilized", dissolved and reprecipitated; originally having been present as (more soluble) opal in microscopic "shells" of one-celled organisms (diatoms and relatives) distributed throughout a limestone, which dissolves in groundwater, then reconcentrates as nodules of chert, usually in certain beds within the host limestone formation. But what governs the exact location of where these nodules grow and what shape they take--kind of one aspect of the general question of why any mineral nodule crystal cluster grows where it did... a hard thing to answer. Something about the rock or sediment there being a little more soluble, or a little more porous, or a little more readily able to be replaced by oth er minerals. Pete -------------- Original message from Drew : -------------- > Pete, > > You mention that chert is usually formed as nodules in sedimentary rock. We > have a lot of these here in SW VA, in fact my friend's farm has some really > weird shaped chunks of chert. Some have really organic shapes, like bones. > What causes these nodules to form like they do? > > Thanks, > Drew > > > > On 7/25/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > Hi Axel, > > > > I looked "silex" up in the AGI Glossary of Geology, it says, "a French > > term for chert". It adds a bit more, that "silexite" is sometimes used to > > mean an igneous rock composed mostly of quartz, but that this causes > > confusion because in French it does simply mean chert. > > > > In general, we would call material chalcedony if it is translucent and > > normally formed in cavities in volcanic rock, and chert, if it is opaque and > > chalky-looking and normally formed as nodules in sedimentary rock, usually > > limestone. The traditional technical mineralogic criterion to distinguish > > them, is that chalcedony and agate have a fibrous microstructure, whereas > > chert, flint, and jasper have a granular microstructure; but one needs to > > examine a thin section with a polarized light microscope to make this > > distinction. > > > > P.S. , I've had fun telling a couple of people about what a popinjay > > contest is! > > P.P.S., Watch your spelling, Axel, Belgian beeches are trees (if you have > > them there). > > > > Pete > > > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" < > > axel.emmermann@pandora.be>: -------------- > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > > > > > I always forget that Americans use other words than us "old-worlders" > > ;-))) > > > Chert indeed. > > > We find nodules of it on the Belgian beeches too. > > > I think that the closest correct mineral name is chalcedony. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Jul 25 07:38:07 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Jul 25 07:38:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) In-Reply-To: <072520061430.1595.44C62B19000413350000063B216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <072520061430.1595.44C62B19000413350000063B216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040607250738r741478d0jc1846942df1037f1@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the answer, it was more informative than I have ever gotten. Thanks Pete! Drew On 7/25/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Now, there's a really good question, Drew, the shape of the nodules. I > don't think I have any good answer for it. > > I'm holding in my hand (it was sitting on my desk) a flint nodule from > Dover, England. It has an odd twisted shape, yes, a lot like a piece of > bone. I don't think I have a good general explanation. The usual story is > that the silica that forms the chert or flint nodules has been > "remobilized", dissolved and reprecipitated; originally having been present > as (more soluble) opal in microscopic "shells" of one-celled organisms > (diatoms and relatives) distributed throughout a limestone, which dissolves > in groundwater, then reconcentrates as nodules of chert, usually in certain > beds within the host limestone formation. But what governs the exact > location of where these nodules grow and what shape they take--kind of one > aspect of the general question of why any mineral nodule crystal cluster > grows where it did... a hard thing to answer. Something about the rock or > sediment there being a little more soluble, or a little more porous, or a > little more readily able to be replaced! > by oth > er minerals. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from Drew : > -------------- > > > > Pete, > > > > You mention that chert is usually formed as nodules in sedimentary rock. > We > > have a lot of these here in SW VA, in fact my friend's farm has some > really > > weird shaped chunks of chert. Some have really organic shapes, like > bones. > > What causes these nodules to form like they do? > > > > Thanks, > > Drew > > > > > > > > On 7/25/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > > > Hi Axel, > > > > > > I looked "silex" up in the AGI Glossary of Geology, it says, "a French > > > term for chert". It adds a bit more, that "silexite" is sometimes used > to > > > mean an igneous rock composed mostly of quartz, but that this causes > > > confusion because in French it does simply mean chert. > > > > > > In general, we would call material chalcedony if it is translucent and > > > normally formed in cavities in volcanic rock, and chert, if it is > opaque and > > > chalky-looking and normally formed as nodules in sedimentary rock, > usually > > > limestone. The traditional technical mineralogic criterion to > distinguish > > > them, is that chalcedony and agate have a fibrous microstructure, > whereas > > > chert, flint, and jasper have a granular microstructure; but one needs > to > > > examine a thin section with a polarized light microscope to make this > > > distinction. > > > > > > P.S. , I've had fun telling a couple of people about what a popinjay > > > contest is! > > > P.P.S., Watch your spelling, Axel, Belgian beeches are trees (if you > have > > > them there). > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" < > > > axel.emmermann@pandora.be>: -------------- > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > > > > > > > I always forget that Americans use other words than us > "old-worlders" > > > ;-))) > > > > Chert indeed. > > > > We find nodules of it on the Belgian beeches too. > > > > I think that the closest correct mineral name is chalcedony. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Jul 25 07:38:07 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Jul 25 07:38:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) In-Reply-To: <072520061430.1595.44C62B19000413350000063B216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <072520061430.1595.44C62B19000413350000063B216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040607250738r741478d0jc1846942df1037f1@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for the answer, it was more informative than I have ever gotten. Thanks Pete! Drew On 7/25/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Now, there's a really good question, Drew, the shape of the nodules. I > don't think I have any good answer for it. > > I'm holding in my hand (it was sitting on my desk) a flint nodule from > Dover, England. It has an odd twisted shape, yes, a lot like a piece of > bone. I don't think I have a good general explanation. The usual story is > that the silica that forms the chert or flint nodules has been > "remobilized", dissolved and reprecipitated; originally having been present > as (more soluble) opal in microscopic "shells" of one-celled organisms > (diatoms and relatives) distributed throughout a limestone, which dissolves > in groundwater, then reconcentrates as nodules of chert, usually in certain > beds within the host limestone formation. But what governs the exact > location of where these nodules grow and what shape they take--kind of one > aspect of the general question of why any mineral nodule crystal cluster > grows where it did... a hard thing to answer. Something about the rock or > sediment there being a little more soluble, or a little more porous, or a > little more readily able to be replaced! > by oth > er minerals. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from Drew : > -------------- > > > > Pete, > > > > You mention that chert is usually formed as nodules in sedimentary rock. > We > > have a lot of these here in SW VA, in fact my friend's farm has some > really > > weird shaped chunks of chert. Some have really organic shapes, like > bones. > > What causes these nodules to form like they do? > > > > Thanks, > > Drew > > > > > > > > On 7/25/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > > > Hi Axel, > > > > > > I looked "silex" up in the AGI Glossary of Geology, it says, "a French > > > term for chert". It adds a bit more, that "silexite" is sometimes used > to > > > mean an igneous rock composed mostly of quartz, but that this causes > > > confusion because in French it does simply mean chert. > > > > > > In general, we would call material chalcedony if it is translucent and > > > normally formed in cavities in volcanic rock, and chert, if it is > opaque and > > > chalky-looking and normally formed as nodules in sedimentary rock, > usually > > > limestone. The traditional technical mineralogic criterion to > distinguish > > > them, is that chalcedony and agate have a fibrous microstructure, > whereas > > > chert, flint, and jasper have a granular microstructure; but one needs > to > > > examine a thin section with a polarized light microscope to make this > > > distinction. > > > > > > P.S. , I've had fun telling a couple of people about what a popinjay > > > contest is! > > > P.P.S., Watch your spelling, Axel, Belgian beeches are trees (if you > have > > > them there). > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" < > > > axel.emmermann@pandora.be>: -------------- > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > > > > > > > I always forget that Americans use other words than us > "old-worlders" > > > ;-))) > > > > Chert indeed. > > > > We find nodules of it on the Belgian beeches too. > > > > I think that the closest correct mineral name is chalcedony. > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jul 25 12:07:24 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jul 25 12:06:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Silex (was rock arrowheads) In-Reply-To: <072520061358.28606.44C62393000D792F00006FBE216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: >P.P.S., Watch your spelling, Axel, Belgian beeches are trees (if you have them there). What now? I used to be a great fan of the Beech Boys... Don't tell me that I was in error all those years? ;-))) LOL There was also this song, which became quite a hit, a few years ago: "I wanna have sex on the beech" was one of the chorus lines. I always thought that had to be a little impractical... but now that you mention it.... Yeah, BEACH ! O well, blame it on the heat... We haven't seen day temperatures below 30 degrees Celsius for more than 25 days in a row. My cerebral processor must be overheating ;-))) Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jul 25 12:20:44 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jul 25 12:20:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) In-Reply-To: <072520061430.1595.44C62B19000413350000063B216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Hey guys, one more proof that you can find anything on the Net: http://www.discoveringfossils.co.uk/flintformationfossils.htm Flint formation as trace fossil after lobster burrows. Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net Verzonden: dinsdag 25 juli 2006 15:31 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) Now, there's a really good question, Drew, the shape of the nodules. I don't think I have any good answer for it. I'm holding in my hand (it was sitting on my desk) a flint nodule from Dover, England. It has an odd twisted shape, yes, a lot like a piece of bone. I don't think I have a good general explanation. The usual story is that the silica that forms the chert or flint nodules has been "remobilized", dissolved and reprecipitated; originally having been present as (more soluble) opal in microscopic "shells" of one-celled organisms (diatoms and relatives) distributed throughout a limestone, which dissolves in groundwater, then reconcentrates as nodules of chert, usually in certain beds within the host limestone formation. But what governs the exact location of where these nodules grow and what shape they take--kind of one aspect of the general question of why any mineral nodule crystal cluster grows where it did... a hard thing to answer. Something about the rock or sediment there being a little more soluble, or a little more porous, or a little more readily able to be replaced! by oth er minerals. Pete -------------- Original message from Drew : -------------- > Pete, > > You mention that chert is usually formed as nodules in sedimentary rock. We > have a lot of these here in SW VA, in fact my friend's farm has some really > weird shaped chunks of chert. Some have really organic shapes, like bones. > What causes these nodules to form like they do? > > Thanks, > Drew > > > > On 7/25/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > Hi Axel, > > > > I looked "silex" up in the AGI Glossary of Geology, it says, "a French > > term for chert". It adds a bit more, that "silexite" is sometimes used to > > mean an igneous rock composed mostly of quartz, but that this causes > > confusion because in French it does simply mean chert. > > > > In general, we would call material chalcedony if it is translucent and > > normally formed in cavities in volcanic rock, and chert, if it is opaque and > > chalky-looking and normally formed as nodules in sedimentary rock, usually > > limestone. The traditional technical mineralogic criterion to distinguish > > them, is that chalcedony and agate have a fibrous microstructure, whereas > > chert, flint, and jasper have a granular microstructure; but one needs to > > examine a thin section with a polarized light microscope to make this > > distinction. > > > > P.S. , I've had fun telling a couple of people about what a popinjay > > contest is! > > P.P.S., Watch your spelling, Axel, Belgian beeches are trees (if you have > > them there). > > > > Pete > > > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" < > > axel.emmermann@pandora.be>: -------------- > > > > > > > Hi Pete, > > > > > > I always forget that Americans use other words than us "old-worlders" > > ;-))) > > > Chert indeed. > > > We find nodules of it on the Belgian beeches too. > > > I think that the closest correct mineral name is chalcedony. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jul 25 14:09:13 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jul 25 14:09:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) Message-ID: <072520062109.16814.44C68879000A942E000041AE216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> That's a neat website, Axel, on flint; and as to your other comments, <<: -------------- > Hey guys, > > one more proof that you can find anything on the Net: > http://www.discoveringfossils.co.uk/flintformationfossils.htm > Flint formation as trace fossil after lobster burrows. > > Cheers > > Axel > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gkoshman at sasktel.net Wed Jul 26 08:05:20 2006 From: gkoshman at sasktel.net (Gerry Koshman) Date: Wed Jul 26 08:02:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Using Hot Stuff Message-ID: <000001c6b0c4$e9cf66c0$29e2a3ce@userq8p3k9g7xy> Good morning, Several times I have read rockhounds on this list mention using Hot Stuff or Opticon to seal pits and fractures for porous stones. I have tried to seal pits and fractures and have never had good results. Could somebody outline the step by step procedure they use, i.e. at what stage do you use the glue and what do you use afterwards for sanding etc? Thanks in advance. Gerry -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.2/393 - Release Date: 19/07/2006 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Wed Jul 26 08:55:14 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Wed Jul 26 08:51:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Using Hot Stuff In-Reply-To: <000001c6b0c4$e9cf66c0$29e2a3ce@userq8p3k9g7xy> Message-ID: <2055D5DA-1CBF-11DB-8384-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi Gerry, I've not had much success with Opticon but only used it once, with disappointing results, and therefore not again. It may have been due to my technique, so I also am interested in hearing others' detailed procedures. Hot stuff, being a cyanoacrylate, is, I believe, slightly sensitive to moisture which might in time cause it to debond. I've not used it as a filler, for that reason. To what degree it yellows I do not know. What I do normally use is Epoxy 330. When applied to a hot stone it becomes very liquid and runny and also sets up rapidly. For very minute cracks it can also be mixed up and then diluted with acetone, which makes it a very thin & penetrative liquid. It sets up clear and hard overnight. Usually I leave my treated stone on a warming plate overnight, hot to the touch but not quite boiling heat. One thing I have found with Epoxy 330 is that accurate measurement seems to make for a much harder final set up. I put a piece of file card down on my gem scale and weigh out equal amounts that way. Then mix in a round container, the bottom of a 35mm film can or something like that. I've heard that spatula mixing on a flat surface is not as effective. Hope that helps, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada With a handcarved inlaid alabaster bowl on ebay at this very moment - that no-one is interested in. From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jul 26 13:56:05 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jul 26 13:55:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) In-Reply-To: <072520062109.16814.44C68879000A942E000041AE216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Would I dare to assume that there is a difference between chert and flint? Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net Verzonden: dinsdag 25 juli 2006 22:09 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) That's a neat website, Axel, on flint; and as to your other comments, <<: -------------- > Hey guys, > > one more proof that you can find anything on the Net: > http://www.discoveringfossils.co.uk/flintformationfossils.htm > Flint formation as trace fossil after lobster burrows. > > Cheers > > Axel > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Jul 26 14:08:00 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Jul 26 14:08:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) Message-ID: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> That's a very good question, Axel. I often tell people that it more a cultural distinction (man's use and perception of it) rather than a true mineralogical distinction. Going to my usual prime source, the AGI Glossary of Geology, it says, "Flint, a term that has been considered as a mineral name for a massive, very hard, somewhat impure variety of chalcedony, usually black or of various shades of gray, breaking with a conchoidal fracture, and striking fire with steel. See also: chert" their definition for chert is similar but says more, quite lengthy, and it ends with: "The term flint is essentially synonymous, although it has been used for the dark variety of chert." So my one simple answer to your question is, "Not really.". My other answer, again what I usually tell people, is that we tend to call light-colored material chert, and black or dark-colored material, flint. That's not a terribly scientific distinction. Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > Would I dare to assume that there is a difference between chert and flint? > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net > Verzonden: dinsdag 25 juli 2006 22:09 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock > arrowheads)) > > > That's a neat website, Axel, on flint; and as to your other comments, > > <<> > You sure must be right about that one! > > Pete > > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" > : -------------- > > > > Hey guys, > > > > one more proof that you can find anything on the Net: > > http://www.discoveringfossils.co.uk/flintformationfossils.htm > > Flint formation as trace fossil after lobster burrows. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Jul 26 14:24:44 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Jul 26 14:24:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> I think the key to the description of flint is " striking fire with steel" at least in past common useage. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 2:08 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) > That's a very good question, Axel. I often tell people that it more a cultural distinction (man's use and perception of it) rather than a true mineralogical distinction. Going to my usual prime source, the AGI Glossary of Geology, it says, > > "Flint, a term that has been considered as a mineral name for a massive, very hard, somewhat impure variety of chalcedony, usually black or of various shades of gray, breaking with a conchoidal fracture, and striking fire with steel. See also: chert" > > their definition for chert is similar but says more, quite lengthy, and it ends with: > > "The term flint is essentially synonymous, although it has been used for the dark variety of chert." > > So my one simple answer to your question is, "Not really.". My other answer, again what I usually tell people, is that we tend to call light-colored material chert, and black or dark-colored material, flint. That's not a terribly scientific distinction. > > Pete > > > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > > > > Would I dare to assume that there is a difference between chert and flint? > > > > Axel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net > > Verzonden: dinsdag 25 juli 2006 22:09 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock > > arrowheads)) > > > > > > That's a neat website, Axel, on flint; and as to your other comments, > > > > <<> > > You sure must be right about that one! > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Wed Jul 26 15:34:49 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jul 26 15:35:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) In-Reply-To: <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:24:44 -0700, "jaybates" wrote: >I think the key to the description of flint is " striking fire with steel" >at least in past common useage. You're right about common usage, but it's not too useful as a distinction, since most any form of quartz will do it. >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 2:08 PM >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) > > >> That's a very good question, Axel. I often tell people that it more a >cultural distinction (man's use and perception of it) rather than a true >mineralogical distinction. Going to my usual prime source, the AGI Glossary >of Geology, it says, >> >> "Flint, a term that has been considered as a mineral name for a massive, >very hard, somewhat impure variety of chalcedony, usually black or of >various shades of gray, breaking with a conchoidal fracture, and striking >fire with steel. See also: chert" >> >> their definition for chert is similar but says more, quite lengthy, and it >ends with: >> >> "The term flint is essentially synonymous, although it has been used for >the dark variety of chert." >> >> So my one simple answer to your question is, "Not really.". My other >answer, again what I usually tell people, is that we tend to call >light-colored material chert, and black or dark-colored material, flint. >That's not a terribly scientific distinction. >> >> Pete >> >> >> >> -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" >: -------------- >> >> >> > Would I dare to assume that there is a difference between chert and >flint? >> > >> > Axel >> > >> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net >> > Verzonden: dinsdag 25 juli 2006 22:09 >> > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock >> > arrowheads)) >> > >> > >> > That's a neat website, Axel, on flint; and as to your other comments, >> > >> > <<> >> > You sure must be right about that one! >> > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Jul 26 16:11:09 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Jul 26 16:11:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) In-Reply-To: <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040607261611j460e0328r48ab9fa82be99a59@mail.gmail.com> Jay, So you are saying that is the distinction? When my friends and I are collecting, and they show me a piece of that organic looking chert (see first post), and ask if it is chert or flint, I am clueless. If that is the distinction, then it will be easy to figure it out! Thanks, Drew On 7/26/06, jaybates wrote: > > I think the key to the description of flint is " striking fire with steel" > at least in past common useage. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 2:08 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) > > > > That's a very good question, Axel. I often tell people that it more a > cultural distinction (man's use and perception of it) rather than a true > mineralogical distinction. Going to my usual prime source, the AGI > Glossary > of Geology, it says, > > > > "Flint, a term that has been considered as a mineral name for a massive, > very hard, somewhat impure variety of chalcedony, usually black or of > various shades of gray, breaking with a conchoidal fracture, and striking > fire with steel. See also: chert" > > > > their definition for chert is similar but says more, quite lengthy, and > it > ends with: > > > > "The term flint is essentially synonymous, although it has been used for > the dark variety of chert." > > > > So my one simple answer to your question is, "Not really.". My other > answer, again what I usually tell people, is that we tend to call > light-colored material chert, and black or dark-colored material, flint. > That's not a terribly scientific distinction. > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" > : -------------- > > > > > > > Would I dare to assume that there is a difference between chert and > flint? > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net > > > Verzonden: dinsdag 25 juli 2006 22:09 > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > > > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock > > > arrowheads)) > > > > > > > > > That's a neat website, Axel, on flint; and as to your other comments, > > > > > > <<> > > > You sure must be right about that one! > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Jul 26 16:12:15 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Jul 26 16:12:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) In-Reply-To: References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040607261612x2a096487xe5e366bded96c95f@mail.gmail.com> Sorry about that, just got the mail from Al, so I guess that was my answer... Drew On 7/26/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:24:44 -0700, "jaybates" > wrote: > > >I think the key to the description of flint is " striking fire with > steel" > >at least in past common useage. > > You're right about common usage, but it's not too useful as a > distinction, since most any form of quartz will do it. > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 2:08 PM > >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) > > > > > >> That's a very good question, Axel. I often tell people that it more a > >cultural distinction (man's use and perception of it) rather than a true > >mineralogical distinction. Going to my usual prime source, the AGI > Glossary > >of Geology, it says, > >> > >> "Flint, a term that has been considered as a mineral name for a > massive, > >very hard, somewhat impure variety of chalcedony, usually black or of > >various shades of gray, breaking with a conchoidal fracture, and striking > >fire with steel. See also: chert" > >> > >> their definition for chert is similar but says more, quite lengthy, and > it > >ends with: > >> > >> "The term flint is essentially synonymous, although it has been used > for > >the dark variety of chert." > >> > >> So my one simple answer to your question is, "Not really.". My other > >answer, again what I usually tell people, is that we tend to call > >light-colored material chert, and black or dark-colored material, flint. > >That's not a terribly scientific distinction. > >> > >> Pete > >> > >> > >> > >> -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" > >: -------------- > >> > >> > >> > Would I dare to assume that there is a difference between chert and > >flint? > >> > > >> > Axel > >> > > >> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >> > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >> > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens > pjmodreski@att.net > >> > Verzonden: dinsdag 25 juli 2006 22:09 > >> > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > >> > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock > >> > arrowheads)) > >> > > >> > > >> > That's a neat website, Axel, on flint; and as to your other comments, > >> > > >> > <<> > >> > You sure must be right about that one! > >> > > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Jul 26 16:35:23 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Jul 26 16:34:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net><000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <7aac8040607261611j460e0328r48ab9fa82be99a59@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000901c6b10c$2b0c7b40$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> At least in the past, the term flint was used for silica that was used for making fire either in a firearm or actual firemaking. That is still one of the definitions in my College Dictionary. Flint is a term that derived from common useage not a geological term. The AGI Glossary recognizes that definition. There is also a general definition for flint in the dictionary as "a hard kind of stone, a form of silica." The AGI Glossary also recognizes that definition. To answer your question there is no definitive answer. If you use color or organic looking as a reason to call a hard chert a flint that is OK also. I just like using the old definition "striking fire with steel". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) > Jay, > > So you are saying that is the distinction? When my friends and I are > collecting, and they show me a piece of that organic looking chert (see > first post), and ask if it is chert or flint, I am clueless. If that is the > distinction, then it will be easy to figure it out! > > Thanks, > Drew > > On 7/26/06, jaybates wrote: > > > > I think the key to the description of flint is " striking fire with steel" > > at least in past common useage. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 2:08 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) > > > > > > > That's a very good question, Axel. I often tell people that it more a > > cultural distinction (man's use and perception of it) rather than a true > > mineralogical distinction. Going to my usual prime source, the AGI > > Glossary > > of Geology, it says, > > > > > > "Flint, a term that has been considered as a mineral name for a massive, > > very hard, somewhat impure variety of chalcedony, usually black or of > > various shades of gray, breaking with a conchoidal fracture, and striking > > fire with steel. See also: chert" > > > > > > their definition for chert is similar but says more, quite lengthy, and > > it > > ends with: > > > > > > "The term flint is essentially synonymous, although it has been used for > > the dark variety of chert." > > > > > > So my one simple answer to your question is, "Not really.". My other > > answer, again what I usually tell people, is that we tend to call > > light-colored material chert, and black or dark-colored material, flint. > > That's not a terribly scientific distinction. > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" > > : -------------- > > > > > > > > > > Would I dare to assume that there is a difference between chert and > > flint? > > > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net > > > > Verzonden: dinsdag 25 juli 2006 22:09 > > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > > > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock > > > > arrowheads)) > > > > > > > > > > > > That's a neat website, Axel, on flint; and as to your other comments, > > > > > > > > <<> > > > > You sure must be right about that one! > > > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 26 17:40:22 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 26 17:31:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <44C80932.53CC@Tomaszewski.net> I've found a few articles that suggest the difference between flint and chert relate to the size of the cryptocrystalline quartz particles and the resulting change in luster. Larger particle size gives a lower (or no) luster and is chert. The finer particle size has a higher luster and is flint. The other common distinction is the matrix. Limestone gives up chert, and chalkier matrix tends to give up flint (i.e., chalk flint as is found in Britain). Al Balmer wrote: > > On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:24:44 -0700, "jaybates" > wrote: > > >I think the key to the description of flint is " striking fire with steel" > >at least in past common useage. > > You're right about common usage, but it's not too useful as a > distinction, since most any form of quartz will do it. > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 2:08 PM > >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) > > > > > >> That's a very good question, Axel. I often tell people that it more a > >cultural distinction (man's use and perception of it) rather than a true > >mineralogical distinction. Going to my usual prime source, the AGI Glossary > >of Geology, it says, > >> > >> "Flint, a term that has been considered as a mineral name for a massive, > >very hard, somewhat impure variety of chalcedony, usually black or of > >various shades of gray, breaking with a conchoidal fracture, and striking > >fire with steel. See also: chert" > >> > >> their definition for chert is similar but says more, quite lengthy, and it > >ends with: > >> > >> "The term flint is essentially synonymous, although it has been used for > >the dark variety of chert." > >> > >> So my one simple answer to your question is, "Not really.". My other > >answer, again what I usually tell people, is that we tend to call > >light-colored material chert, and black or dark-colored material, flint. > >That's not a terribly scientific distinction. > >> > >> Pete > >> > >> > >> > >> -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" > >: -------------- > >> > >> > >> > Would I dare to assume that there is a difference between chert and > >flint? > >> > > >> > Axel > >> > > >> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >> > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >> > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net > >> > Verzonden: dinsdag 25 juli 2006 22:09 > >> > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > >> > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock > >> > arrowheads)) > >> > > >> > > >> > That's a neat website, Axel, on flint; and as to your other comments, > >> > > >> > <<> > >> > You sure must be right about that one! From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Jul 26 17:35:14 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Jul 26 17:35:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) In-Reply-To: <44C80932.53CC@Tomaszewski.net> References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <44C80932.53CC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040607261735h76dfc64ewfcf3134801c70f93@mail.gmail.com> On 7/26/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > I've found a few articles that suggest the difference between flint and > chert relate to the size of the cryptocrystalline quartz particles and > the resulting change in luster. Larger particle size gives a lower (or > no) luster and is chert. The finer particle size has a higher luster and > is flint. That is interesting, because most of the rock in my area is limestone, and the nodules I mentioned before most likely would have weathered from limestone. I have never seen any chalk like rock in the area, but have found many chips and flakes of flint. I assume that these were carried in, therefore not native to my area? Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Jul 26 17:47:13 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Jul 26 17:46:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) In-Reply-To: <44C80932.53CC@Tomaszewski.net> References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <44C80932.53CC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <44C80D11.1000001@verizon.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > I've found a few articles that suggest the difference between flint and > chert relate to the size of the cryptocrystalline quartz particles and > the resulting change in luster. Larger particle size gives a lower (or > no) luster and is chert. The finer particle size has a higher luster and > is flint. Oh what the heck, I'll muddy the waters a little further. When I was learning to flintknap, I read somewhere that "chert is an impure form of flint" and that "strictly speaking, there is no flint in the United States." Who knows the scientific basis for what was written. The example of true flint was given as English Dover flint, which for those who have not seen it, is more fine-grained, dark, and translucent than anything else I've ever seen labeled as flint. I am not advocating any point of view on this issue, I fear that it is based partly on anecdote and lore and perhaps partly on science. I've seen this debate on the list before, and I don't remember any strong definitive answer coming forth. best, Don From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Jul 26 18:30:32 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Jul 26 18:30:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert vs. Flint References: Message-ID: <004601c6b11c$40844a10$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Around here (and among the midwest archaeologists) flint is defined as being dark gray to black chert. Chert is any other color. They are associated with sedimentary rocks, such as the Wyandotte Flint being found within the Ste. Genevieve Limestone. Knappable chert is found in the Muldraugh Formation (a siltstone) and Silurian and Devonian limestone and dolostone to a lesser extent. Don't forget about Flint Ridge, Ohio with multi-colored material. They aren't going to change it to "Chert Ridge" just because a geologist says it isn't "type" flint! As other people have said, the term "flint" is does not have a geologic origin (at least in the U.S.). At our park we have a display found by a local fisherman years ago that is a cache of some 50 bifaces or preforms. (They were knapped this way so with a minor modification, they could be made into more than one tool.) The dark gray Wyandotte Flint bifaces were preform "turkey tail" projectile points. The Muldraugh chert in the same cache (crinoidal limestone replaced by silica) were preforms for knife blades. The former state archaeologist for prehistoric archaeology said that this cache showing that different rocks were used for different tools was unique (for our region at least) and was worthy of a scientific paper. However, he no longer works for the state (Indiana) and no one is pursuing this as a project. Alan Louisville, KY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 4:56 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) > Would I dare to assume that there is a difference between chert and flint? > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net > Verzonden: dinsdag 25 juli 2006 22:09 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock > arrowheads)) > > > That's a neat website, Axel, on flint; and as to your other comments, > > << > You sure must be right about that one! > > Pete > > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" > : -------------- > > >> Hey guys, >> >> one more proof that you can find anything on the Net: >> http://www.discoveringfossils.co.uk/flintformationfossils.htm >> Flint formation as trace fossil after lobster burrows. >> >> Cheers >> >> Axel >> > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 26 18:40:46 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 26 18:31:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <44C80932.53CC@Tomaszewski.net> <7aac8040607261735h76dfc64ewfcf3134801c70f93@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44C81751.54AC@Tomaszewski.net> I think the source is a lot less important than the crystal size in making the distinction between flint and chert. Historically the main difference seems functional -- whether it would make a spark. I did find a good article on Chalk that sheds some light on flint. http://www.geologyshop.co.uk/chalk.htm Drew wrote: > > On 7/26/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > I've found a few articles that suggest the difference between flint and > > chert relate to the size of the cryptocrystalline quartz particles and > > the resulting change in luster. Larger particle size gives a lower (or > > no) luster and is chert. The finer particle size has a higher luster and > > is flint. > > That is interesting, because most of the rock in my area is limestone, and > the nodules I mentioned before most likely would have weathered from > limestone. I have never seen any chalk like rock in the area, but have > found many chips and flakes of flint. I assume that these were carried in, > therefore not native to my area? > > Drew From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jul 26 19:00:03 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jul 26 19:00:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) In-Reply-To: <44C81751.54AC@Tomaszewski.net> References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <44C80932.53CC@Tomaszewski.net> <7aac8040607261735h76dfc64ewfcf3134801c70f93@mail.gmail.com> <44C81751.54AC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: IIRC I think that I heard at the Kennesaw battlefield museum that flint from Devon was the prefered variety for flintlocks. BK On 7/26/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > I think the source is a lot less important than the crystal size in > making the distinction between flint and chert. Historically the main > difference seems functional -- whether it would make a spark. > > I did find a good article on Chalk that sheds some light on flint. > > http://www.geologyshop.co.uk/chalk.htm > > > > Drew wrote: > > > > On 7/26/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > > I've found a few articles that suggest the difference between flint > and > > > chert relate to the size of the cryptocrystalline quartz particles and > > > the resulting change in luster. Larger particle size gives a lower (or > > > no) luster and is chert. The finer particle size has a higher luster > and > > > is flint. > > > > That is interesting, because most of the rock in my area is limestone, > and > > the nodules I mentioned before most likely would have weathered from > > limestone. I have never seen any chalk like rock in the area, but have > > found many chips and flakes of flint. I assume that these were carried > in, > > therefore not native to my area? > > > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jul 26 19:09:49 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jul 26 19:09:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert vs. Flint In-Reply-To: <004601c6b11c$40844a10$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <004601c6b11c$40844a10$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Flint from Alibates flint quarry in Texas has been found thousands of miles away. From Montana to Central Mexico and east to the Mississippi. From the description of flint tho it must be Chert and has been mined for 14,000 years: That is one pathetic National Monument tho. It is miles and miles away from anything and when you get there you find that the visitor center is a rather small bare trailer and they only let people in the site once at day at 1300. The only ranger is rather surly too, no surprise I guess. You can find Chert outside the monument tho, but the ranger doesn't like it if you do. BK On 7/26/06, Alan Goldstein wrote: > > Around here (and among the midwest archaeologists) flint is defined as > being > dark gray to black chert. Chert is any other color. They are associated > with > sedimentary rocks, such as the Wyandotte Flint being found within the Ste. > Genevieve Limestone. Knappable chert is found in the Muldraugh Formation > (a > siltstone) and Silurian and Devonian limestone and dolostone to a lesser > extent. Don't forget about Flint Ridge, Ohio with multi-colored material. > They aren't going to change it to "Chert Ridge" just because a geologist > says it isn't "type" flint! As other people have said, the term "flint" is > does not have a geologic origin (at least in the U.S.). > > At our park we have a display found by a local fisherman years ago that is > a > cache of some 50 bifaces or preforms. (They were knapped this way so with > a > minor modification, they could be made into more than one tool.) The dark > gray Wyandotte Flint bifaces were preform "turkey tail" projectile points. > The Muldraugh chert in the same cache (crinoidal limestone replaced by > silica) were preforms for knife blades. The former state archaeologist for > prehistoric archaeology said that this cache showing that different rocks > were used for different tools was unique (for our region at least) and was > worthy of a scientific paper. However, he no longer works for the state > (Indiana) and no one is pursuing this as a project. > > Alan > Louisville, KY > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 4:56 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) > > > > Would I dare to assume that there is a difference between chert and > flint? > > > > Axel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net > > Verzonden: dinsdag 25 juli 2006 22:09 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock > > arrowheads)) > > > > > > That's a neat website, Axel, on flint; and as to your other comments, > > > > << > > > You sure must be right about that one! > > > > Pete > > > > > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" > > : -------------- > > > > > >> Hey guys, > >> > >> one more proof that you can find anything on the Net: > >> http://www.discoveringfossils.co.uk/flintformationfossils.htm > >> Flint formation as trace fossil after lobster burrows. > >> > >> Cheers > >> > >> Axel > >> > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jul 26 20:09:36 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jul 26 19:59:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <44C80932.53CC@Tomaszewski.net> <7aac8040607261735h76dfc64ewfcf3134801c70f93@mail.gmail.com> <44C81751.54AC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <44C82C18.3B1@Tomaszewski.net> I actually have a flint from a flintlock. My grandfather was a farmer and collected the arrowheads and other stone artifacts he found working his fields. As the only rock collector in the family, I received his collection when he died (while I was still a teenager). Inspired by a recent club presentation from an archaeologist, I took the collection to a local college for study by one of their professors and students. One of the artifacts was a flintlock flint that they considered to be one of the more interesting items. I was personally more interested in a combination awl/scraper tool for leatherwork made from dark brown/black flint. It was flaked with concave surfaces that perfectly match the hand, whether you are holding the awl end, or the scraper end. Fingering the tool and feeling it match your hand gives a connection across centuries, and makes you marvel at the skill of the tool maker. BTW, the toolmaker was right handed, and you can tell. Flint from Beer (Devon area) reportedly provided more than half the flint for flintlocks during the English civil war. The location has been providing highly desired black flint since at least the Neolithic period. Kreigh J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > IIRC I think that I heard at the Kennesaw battlefield museum that flint from > Devon was the prefered variety for flintlocks. > > BK > > On 7/26/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > I think the source is a lot less important than the crystal size in > > making the distinction between flint and chert. Historically the main > > difference seems functional -- whether it would make a spark. > > > > I did find a good article on Chalk that sheds some light on flint. > > > > http://www.geologyshop.co.uk/chalk.htm > > > > > > > > Drew wrote: > > > > > > On 7/26/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > > > > I've found a few articles that suggest the difference between flint > > and > > > > chert relate to the size of the cryptocrystalline quartz particles and > > > > the resulting change in luster. Larger particle size gives a lower (or > > > > no) luster and is chert. The finer particle size has a higher luster > > and > > > > is flint. > > > > > > That is interesting, because most of the rock in my area is limestone, > > and > > > the nodules I mentioned before most likely would have weathered from > > > limestone. I have never seen any chalk like rock in the area, but have > > > found many chips and flakes of flint. I assume that these were carried > > in, > > > therefore not native to my area? > > > > > > Drew > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocks4u at prodigy.net Wed Jul 26 20:59:48 2006 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Wed Jul 26 21:04:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Using Hot Stuff References: <2055D5DA-1CBF-11DB-8384-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <091001c6b131$1aec3780$fdf3fea9@WesMedion1918> Hi Hans! Sorry to hear you've not had good success with Opticon. It is sensitive to the procedure you use to mix it as well as the type and amount of heat you use to cure it. I have found that a mix of 8 to 1 (Resin to hardener) is the best ratio. I'm very careful to use two small bottles with the same size spout to count the drops into a small cup and then mix very thoroughly. The object to be covered(filled) must be very warm; too warm to hold in your hand for long. I use a 1500 BTU fan shop heater (Not found in stores this time of year) to gently warm the object using hot air until it gets up to temperature. This takes about an hour or so. I then mix my opticon as described and spread it over the object. I let it sit for about an hour and then turn it over and do the other side if necessary. Once coated you must leave the heat on it for an hour or so to get a good cure. There may be some shrinkage so you may have to refill some of the holes. Then let the object cool over night waiting at least 24 hours before working it. Longer is better for a harder cure. When filling an ugly hole in a sphere I find that using clean white silica sand as a filler mixed with the opticon makes for a good final result that looks like the original agate. And it polishes well. Hot stuff or Zap-a-Gap glue doesn't work well for final finishing as a sealer/filler. 330 epoxy doesn't ever get really hard and always has a certain amount of give and that's why it's good for jewelry adhesive. As far as I'm concerned Opticon is the best fracture sealer around. Cheers! Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Using Hot Stuff > Hi Gerry, > > I've not had much success with Opticon but only used it once, with > disappointing results, and therefore not again. It may have been due to my > technique, so I also am interested in hearing others' detailed procedures. > Hot stuff, being a cyanoacrylate, is, I believe, slightly sensitive to > moisture which might in time cause it to debond. I've not used it as a > filler, for that reason. To what degree it yellows I do not know. > > What I do normally use is Epoxy 330. When applied to a hot stone it > becomes very liquid and runny and also sets up rapidly. For very minute > cracks it can also be mixed up and then diluted with acetone, which makes > it a very thin & penetrative liquid. It sets up clear and hard overnight. > Usually I leave my treated stone on a warming plate overnight, hot to the > touch but not quite boiling heat. > > One thing I have found with Epoxy 330 is that accurate measurement seems > to make for a much harder final set up. I put a piece of file card down on > my gem scale and weigh out equal amounts that way. Then mix in a round > container, the bottom of a 35mm film can or something like that. I've > heard that spatula mixing on a flat surface is not as effective. > > Hope that helps, > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > With a handcarved inlaid alabaster bowl on ebay at this very moment - that > no-one is interested in. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From albalmer at att.net Wed Jul 26 22:14:50 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jul 26 22:16:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) In-Reply-To: <44C80D11.1000001@verizon.net> References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <44C80932.53CC@Tomaszewski.net> <44C80D11.1000001@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:47:13 -0700, DonH wrote: >Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> I've found a few articles that suggest the difference between flint and >> chert relate to the size of the cryptocrystalline quartz particles and >> the resulting change in luster. Larger particle size gives a lower (or >> no) luster and is chert. The finer particle size has a higher luster and >> is flint. > > >Oh what the heck, I'll muddy the waters a little further. When I was >learning to flintknap, I read somewhere that "chert is an impure form of >flint" and that "strictly speaking, there is no flint in the United >States." Uh, oh. Bad news for Ohio. They'll have to rename Flint Ridge Park :-) > Who knows the scientific basis for what was written. The >example of true flint was given as English Dover flint, which for those >who have not seen it, is more fine-grained, dark, and translucent than >anything else I've ever seen labeled as flint. I am not advocating any >point of view on this issue, I fear that it is based partly on anecdote >and lore and perhaps partly on science. I've seen this debate on the >list before, and I don't remember any strong definitive answer coming forth. > >best, >Don -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From gene at fossilnut.com Thu Jul 27 04:05:06 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Thu Jul 27 04:05:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) References: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net><000901c6b0f9$ea331780$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com><44C80932.53CC@Tomaszewski.net><7aac8040607261735h76dfc64ewfcf3134801c70f93@mail.gmail.com><44C81751.54AC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002401c6b16c$84e089d0$6400a8c0@hppav> As I recall there are places near 17th and 18th century US ports where there are piles of flint and other rocks, ballast from merchant ships coming from ports in Southern England. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) > IIRC I think that I heard at the Kennesaw battlefield museum that flint > from > Devon was the prefered variety for flintlocks. > > BK > > On 7/26/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> >> I think the source is a lot less important than the crystal size in >> making the distinction between flint and chert. Historically the main >> difference seems functional -- whether it would make a spark. >> >> I did find a good article on Chalk that sheds some light on flint. >> >> http://www.geologyshop.co.uk/chalk.htm >> >> >> >> Drew wrote: >> > >> > On 7/26/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> > > >> > > I've found a few articles that suggest the difference between flint >> and >> > > chert relate to the size of the cryptocrystalline quartz particles >> > > and >> > > the resulting change in luster. Larger particle size gives a lower >> > > (or >> > > no) luster and is chert. The finer particle size has a higher luster >> and >> > > is flint. >> > >> > That is interesting, because most of the rock in my area is limestone, >> and >> > the nodules I mentioned before most likely would have weathered from >> > limestone. I have never seen any chalk like rock in the area, but have >> > found many chips and flakes of flint. I assume that these were carried >> in, >> > therefore not native to my area? >> > >> > Drew >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jul 27 05:44:52 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jul 27 05:45:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) Message-ID: <072720061244.3141.44C8B542000D0BB800000C45216028106007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> That was a good article on chalk & relatives, Kreigh, thanks. Although we (I) started out saying that chert and flint were basically the same thing, I do agree with some of what's been posted, that what's referred to as flint does seem perhaps to be harder and more uniform and finer-grained (probably with some exceptions as to named sites, etc.). I'm not sure why the harder, finer-grained, more lustrous material should correlate with being darker in color. Some one of us should take some pieces of "chert" and "flint" (and jasper, and agate or chalcedony for that matter) and experiment with how readily they strike sparks when knocked against steel. [If I were in a shootout with someone, I'd hope I was the one with the flintlock gun, and not having to use just a poor old chertlock!] There may be something of an analogy to jade, in which very fine (and uniform?)-grained material has the greatest toughness and luster and makes the best nephrite jade, as opposed to coarser-grained material that would be just "massive actinolite". Pete -------------- Original message from Kreigh Tomaszewski : -------------- > I think the source is a lot less important than the crystal size in > making the distinction between flint and chert. Historically the main > difference seems functional -- whether it would make a spark. > > I did find a good article on Chalk that sheds some light on flint. > > http://www.geologyshop.co.uk/chalk.htm > > > > Drew wrote: > > > > On 7/26/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > > I've found a few articles that suggest the difference between flint and > > > chert relate to the size of the cryptocrystalline quartz particles and > > > the resulting change in luster. Larger particle size gives a lower (or > > > no) luster and is chert. The finer particle size has a higher luster and > > > is flint. > > > > That is interesting, because most of the rock in my area is limestone, and > > the nodules I mentioned before most likely would have weathered from > > limestone. I have never seen any chalk like rock in the area, but have > > found many chips and flakes of flint. I assume that these were carried in, > > therefore not native to my area? > > > > Drew > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Jul 27 08:47:13 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Jul 27 08:46:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) References: <072720061244.3141.44C8B542000D0BB800000C45216028106007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <000501c6b193$ef1b7220$6401a8c0@cable.rcn.com> It is my understanding that prior to Waterloo, the English had a corner on the flint market and poor ole Napoleon had to resort to importing chertlocks from China. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 5:44 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) > That was a good article on chalk & relatives, Kreigh, thanks. > > Although we (I) started out saying that chert and flint were basically the same thing, I do agree with some of what's been posted, that what's referred to as flint does seem perhaps to be harder and more uniform and finer-grained (probably with some exceptions as to named sites, etc.). I'm not sure why the harder, finer-grained, more lustrous material should correlate with being darker in color. > > Some one of us should take some pieces of "chert" and "flint" (and jasper, and agate or chalcedony for that matter) and experiment with how readily they strike sparks when knocked against steel. [If I were in a shootout with someone, I'd hope I was the one with the flintlock gun, and not having to use just a poor old chertlock!] > > There may be something of an analogy to jade, in which very fine (and uniform?)-grained material has the greatest toughness and luster and makes the best nephrite jade, as opposed to coarser-grained material that would be just "massive actinolite". > > Pete > -------------- Original message from Kreigh Tomaszewski : -------------- > > > > I think the source is a lot less important than the crystal size in > > making the distinction between flint and chert. Historically the main > > difference seems functional -- whether it would make a spark. > > > > I did find a good article on Chalk that sheds some light on flint. > > > > http://www.geologyshop.co.uk/chalk.htm > > > > > > > > Drew wrote: > > > > > > On 7/26/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > > > > I've found a few articles that suggest the difference between flint and > > > > chert relate to the size of the cryptocrystalline quartz particles and > > > > the resulting change in luster. Larger particle size gives a lower (or > > > > no) luster and is chert. The finer particle size has a higher luster and > > > > is flint. > > > > > > That is interesting, because most of the rock in my area is limestone, and > > > the nodules I mentioned before most likely would have weathered from > > > limestone. I have never seen any chalk like rock in the area, but have > > > found many chips and flakes of flint. I assume that these were carried in, > > > therefore not native to my area? > > > > > > Drew > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Jul 27 14:47:20 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Jul 27 14:47:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert vs. Flint In-Reply-To: References: <004601c6b11c$40844a10$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: On 7/26/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Flint from Alibates flint quarry in Texas has been found thousands of miles > away. From Montana to Central Mexico and east to the Mississippi. From the > description of flint tho it must be Chert and has been mined for 14,000 > years: > > Great wedsite. Grant From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jul 28 08:57:59 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jul 28 08:57:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) In-Reply-To: <072620062108.12144.44C7D9AF0009737300002F70216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Mr Flinstone says it's a yabbadabbadoohoo time ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net Verzonden: woensdag 26 juli 2006 22:08 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock arrowheads)) That's a very good question, Axel. I often tell people that it more a cultural distinction (man's use and perception of it) rather than a true mineralogical distinction. Going to my usual prime source, the AGI Glossary of Geology, it says, "Flint, a term that has been considered as a mineral name for a massive, very hard, somewhat impure variety of chalcedony, usually black or of various shades of gray, breaking with a conchoidal fracture, and striking fire with steel. See also: chert" their definition for chert is similar but says more, quite lengthy, and it ends with: "The term flint is essentially synonymous, although it has been used for the dark variety of chert." So my one simple answer to your question is, "Not really.". My other answer, again what I usually tell people, is that we tend to call light-colored material chert, and black or dark-colored material, flint. That's not a terribly scientific distinction. Pete -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" : -------------- > Would I dare to assume that there is a difference between chert and flint? > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens pjmodreski@att.net > Verzonden: dinsdag 25 juli 2006 22:09 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert nodules (was Silex (was rock > arrowheads)) > > > That's a neat website, Axel, on flint; and as to your other comments, > > <<> > You sure must be right about that one! > > Pete > > > -------------- Original message from "Axel Emmermann" > : -------------- > > > > Hey guys, > > > > one more proof that you can find anything on the Net: > > http://www.discoveringfossils.co.uk/flintformationfossils.htm > > Flint formation as trace fossil after lobster burrows. > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Jul 28 09:15:02 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Jul 28 09:14:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert Message-ID: <000c01c6b261$03ce2050$570ba118@feldsparflash> My home state is Kansas where roads beyond the villages and cities are usually sand and chert. However, in Kansas and perhaps in other areas of the mid-west the chert on the road iscalled "chat", a term commonly used by road crews and geologists in Kansas. "Chat" is a creamy to tan opaque chert that mades traveling on unpaved roads dangerous for windshields. Since Kansas is fairly level you can see a cloud of dust for miles from an on coming car. When it rains these roads would be unpassible if it weren't for the sand and chert "chat". Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 28 09:15:08 2006 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Fri Jul 28 09:15:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: flint/chert/jade Message-ID: <20060728161508.NBNT11609.ibm61aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Hello all: --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/msword --- From lehkerd at gvsu.edu Fri Jul 28 09:50:26 2006 From: lehkerd at gvsu.edu (David Lehker) Date: Fri Jul 28 09:50:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Yellow Crystals Message-ID: I am in San Francisco for a conference over the week-end and in strolling through china town came across several crystals that are a translucent pale yellow-green. They look like pale amethyst crystals, clear in some areas with modest coloration but again are light yellow -green with varying degree of color intensity. The facets appear enhanced. The range in size from one to three inches high and 1/2 to two inches across. The proprietor did not speak English well, but indicated they came from china. Any ideas? Thanks in advance, Dave PS. Any good rock or mineral shops or displays in San Fran. ? David Lehker, MSW, CSW Grand Valley State University School of Social Work DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 616-331-6597 Fax - 616-331-6570 lehkerd@gvsu.edu From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jul 28 09:59:42 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jul 28 09:59:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Yellow Crystals Message-ID: <072820061659.4623.44CA427E0000674F0000120F216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> You know, David, there are a lot of artificially grown crystals of which one can see clusters sold at rock shops & gift shops; might it be something like that? For example, this website shows a picture of a crystal-growing set from the Smithsonian--might what you saw, look anything like the green or yellow ones shown here? (I got this immense url just searching on google-images for "grow crystals") http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.starmagic.com/catalog/1300057P.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.starmagic.com/SMITH-CRYSTAL-GROWING-LG.html&h=350&w=396&sz=28&hl=en&start=36&tbnid=4ppaCfc3E_NfVM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgrow%2Bcrystals%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN Pete -------------- Original message from "David Lehker" : -------------- > I am in San Francisco for a conference over the week-end and in strolling > through china town came across several crystals that are a translucent pale > yellow-green. They look like pale amethyst crystals, clear in some areas with > modest coloration but again are light yellow -green with varying degree of > color intensity. The facets appear enhanced. The range in size from one to > three inches high and 1/2 to two inches across. The proprietor did not speak > English well, but indicated they came from china. Any ideas? Thanks in > advance, Dave > PS. Any good rock or mineral shops or displays in San Fran. ? > > > David Lehker, MSW, CSW > Grand Valley State University > School of Social Work > DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton > Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 > 616-331-6597 > Fax - 616-331-6570 > lehkerd@gvsu.edu > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Fri Jul 28 10:42:23 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Fri Jul 28 10:42:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fieldtrip report Crabtree emerald mine Message-ID: <001b01c6b26d$113a9870$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> OK: I've been remiss in posting and need to catch up. I and my sons Sam 18 and Ian 14, participated in M. A. G. M. A. (Mountain Area Gem & Mineral Association) visit to the Crabtree Emerald mine outside of Micaville, NC. Since a terrific report plus pictures has already been posted elsewhere, I'm going to cheat a bit and include their link. http://www.wncrocks.com/magma/crabtree7-06-1.htm as part of my report. On page two about six pictures down is a picture of emerald that we found. We found more, but most are not so large or well defined. We started off the trip by not being well prepared. I didn't get to winnowing the camping stuff till the morning we were supposed to leave. Instead of leaving at 6AM, we left near 6PM and managed to forget both our sieves and gold pans... Oh well. After driving for over 6 hours we were in NC not far from Asheville so we stopped for the night with a wakeup call for 5:15AM. This time we got back on the road just after 6AM and made it to the Crabtree by the 8 AM start time. It was a blast! I was kinda overtired and not up to digging large holes, so I sat under a tree and drifted with the shade scratching at the dirt. Well it paid off as you can see by the pic on the previous link. Little did we know that we were digging not too far from Drew another member of Rockhounds. We didn't discover this till after returning home, so while I saw Drew, i didn't get to meet him personally. We left early, especially by our standards and slept over 12 hours at a local motel and returned refreshed the following day. We found a large rock, er, boulder that looked ideal for emeralds. Large quartzite covered with thick layers of biotite and black tourmaline. After scraping off some of the biotite we decided to start hammering the rock into smaller pieces. Sam was reluctant to hike back to the truck for our large sledge, but another gentleman Robert Creason (Stoneman) offered us the use of his little tapper, the 24lb sledge... Yup, 24 pounds; after an hour swinging that baby, Sam walked back to the truck for our little 12 pounder. It took us three hours to get our first good through the rock crack. In the meantime several places where we missed hitting the quartz and smashed biotite and tourmaline we also exposed some emeralds, crushed, but emeralds or were anyway prior to kissing a swung sledge. By 5PM we had managed to break the rock into many smaller pieces, some of which are still good sized rocks. We did not find much more emerald which causes me to think that maybe some emerald forms under sudden pressure changes such as when a swung sledge hits the wrong spot. There are several spots on the rocks we brought home, (yep all them babies we broke off), that we will probe more gently with screwdrivers. Whilst we were there breaking the rock, we kept getting excited by little things. First up, was the clear tourmaline, It appears that in the large tourmaline masses (Hundred to thousands of small crystals) the tourmaline changed as we neared the center of the masses. Now, I'm not convinced we were seeing clear tourmaline and not striated quartz molded to a missing tourmaline, but there was at least one terminated clear tourmaline that was pretty convincing in the field. Unfortunately, I have been unable to locate that one since getting home. We were also pretty well inured to broken black bits of tourmaline, till we got into the masses and some of the broken bits were flashing brown at us. I did find some definitely brown tourmaline (very dark brown) since I got home, but now I need to build a small light box so I can photograph it. We were thinking dravite while in the field, but I've read since then that the common schorl can also have a dark brown phase. Oh, well. We also found some common gold beryl and Ian got a fragment of fluorite. We were also told that the day before two brothers had broken some rock to find some really impressive emerald in matrix specimens. >From there we moved to Rose Creek Campground near Franklin NC and visited the reopened Cherokee Ruby mine under its new owner. Ian found one small garnet and I found a really tiny ruby fragment. We decided we'll come back when they dig fresh dirt, maybe in the fall. Next on our list was a visit to Chunky Gal Mountain and a location near Chunky Gal called Buck Creek. Chunky Gal is outside of Franklin and sits on National Forest land. By now the heat was getting to us and so we restricted ourselves to surface collecting. Ian, again, found a chunk of zoisite with some small reddish purple dots, er, rubies. It sits in our pile waiting for us to get to it. Expediting our exit from the top of Chunky Gal was a visiting thunderstorm so, next stop was Buck Creek. Our understanding was garnets are in the creek and local outcrops contain serpentine and corundum. I was shown a piece of corundum in serpentine by Stoneman while at the Crabtree. We found weathered serpentine, but no corundum. We also found one piece 2"X 3" (50X75mm) of white agate. A complete surprise since while we knew it had been found there we also heard it was not common. Well, after finding the first piece we really spent some time prying and shifting rocks looking for another, no dice. We ended the day and returned home, all the way back to Fredericksburg, VA. Till next trip. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From kadok at infowest.com Fri Jul 28 19:43:19 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Jul 28 19:43:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert In-Reply-To: <000c01c6b261$03ce2050$570ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <000601c6b2b8$c0829df0$0200a8c0@kadok> Carolyn, in Oklahoma (my "born-and-raised" state) we called (any kind of) gravel "chat". And, of course, what they call gravel out here in Utah is nothing like the Oklahoma gravel; I think it can be about any kind of rock, and comes in several different sizes, none of which are as small as the "chat" from Oklahoma. It is usually landscaping rock. Margaret >My home state is Kansas where roads beyond the villages and cities are >usually sand and chert. However, in Kansas and perhaps in other areas of >the mid-west the chert on the road iscalled "chat", a term commonly used by >road crews and geologists in Kansas. >"Chat" is a creamy to tan opaque chert that mades traveling on unpaved >roads dangerous for windshields. Since Kansas is fairly level you can see a >cloud of dust for miles from an on coming car. When it rains these roads >would be unpassible if it weren't for the sand and chert "chat". Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jul 28 21:22:28 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jul 28 21:18:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Yellow Crystals References: Message-ID: <44CAE19E.683F@Tomaszewski.net> Dave, There are hundreds of yellow minerals (see webmineral). From your description I wonder if you encountered heat treated amethyst that was partially/mostly converted to citrine. BTW, have you checked the Yellow Pages in your hotel room for rock shops? Kreigh David Lehker wrote: > > I am in San Francisco for a conference over the week-end and in strolling through china town came across several crystals that are a translucent pale yellow-green. They look like pale amethyst crystals, clear in some areas with modest coloration but again are light yellow -green with varying degree of color intensity. The facets appear enhanced. The range in size from one to three inches high and 1/2 to two inches across. The proprietor did not speak English well, but indicated they came > PS. Any good rock or mineral shops or displays in San Fran. ? > > David Lehker, MSW, CSW > Grand Valley State University > School of Social Work > DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton > Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 > 616-331-6597 > Fax - 616-331-6570 > lehkerd@gvsu.edu > From lehkerd at gvsu.edu Fri Jul 28 22:42:22 2006 From: lehkerd at gvsu.edu (David Lehker) Date: Fri Jul 28 22:43:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Yellow Crystals Message-ID: Hi Kreigh, I think you are correct. The points look just like typical quartz crystals like one would dig in ark. I had never seen yellow before, so I picked up a couple. The more I thought about it, the more I wondered if they had been heat treated. Yes, I have checked the phone book, the consierge, and the web. Not much going on in minerals that I can find. Thanks for the thoughts, Dave David Lehker, MSW, CSW Grand Valley State University School of Social Work DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 616-331-6597 Fax - 616-331-6570 lehkerd@gvsu.edu >>> Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net 07/29/06 12:22 AM >>> Dave, There are hundreds of yellow minerals (see webmineral). From your description I wonder if you encountered heat treated amethyst that was partially/mostly converted to citrine. BTW, have you checked the Yellow Pages in your hotel room for rock shops? Kreigh David Lehker wrote: > > I am in San Francisco for a conference over the week-end and in strolling through china town came across several crystals that are a translucent pale yellow-green. They look like pale amethyst crystals, clear in some areas with modest coloration but again are light yellow -green with varying degree of color intensity. The facets appear enhanced. The range in size from one to three inches high and 1/2 to two inches across. The proprietor did not speak English well, but indicated they came > PS. Any good rock or mineral shops or displays in San Fran. ? > > David Lehker, MSW, CSW > Grand Valley State University > School of Social Work > DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton > Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 > 616-331-6597 > Fax - 616-331-6570 > lehkerd@gvsu.edu > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sat Jul 29 08:33:59 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Jul 29 08:34:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field trip report Message-ID: <20060729153359.48666.qmail@web56311.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Ted: Nice field trip report! Thanks! Breaking up the big boulders is one of my fun things too, but I have learned over the years that if you go at it slowly and deliberately, you don't mash/dislodge/mar/break as many crystals as when you go at it like kiling snakes (as my grandma used to say - she didn't much like snakes). Next fall, when it starts to get too chilly to collect in the northern states where I've been most active, I want to start trying some of the well known NC and GA sites. They're quite a long drive from south-central WV, but Motel 6 is usually only about 50 bucks, which isn't too bad. JR in WV __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Sat Jul 29 09:28:05 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Sat Jul 29 09:27:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chert References: <000601c6b2b8$c0829df0$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <001701c6b32b$f8e60e70$570ba118@feldsparflash> Margaret, that is very interesting. My father, a petroleum geologist ,always referred to the road covering as chat. When we would travel from Wichita to enjoy the Flint Hills and Tall Grass Prairie in South Eastern Kansas we traveled on roads of light tan limestone with chert. As kids we would collect chert from the roadway. One of the unusual sites we would go to is known as Rose Done, which is a lamporite pipe. No diamonds!! There is a string of these explosive pipes that stretch from Eastern Kansas through Missouri to Illinois. (Now I'm off on an other topic)!! That happens in geology. A few years ago I was looking for the origin of the term "chat" and found a reference in the book Kansas Geology, edited by Rex Buchanan, published for the Kansas Geological Survey by the University Press of Kansas referring to "chat mountains" at the lead and zinc mines of Cherokee County that almost entirely consist of chert fragments, "mine dump"?. So, it seems,I should have researched road gravel. I appreciate your response. I imagine your North East Oklahoma roads would be like our ones in SE Kansas. I will always miss Kansas, but find mineral collecting much more exciting in New York State and surrounding areas, in fact some members of our mineral club, the Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society are traveling to Bancroft Ontario for a week of collecting and to attend the Bancroft Gemboree. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 10:43 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Chert > > Carolyn, in Oklahoma (my "born-and-raised" state) we called (any kind of) > gravel "chat". > And, of course, what they call gravel out here in Utah is nothing like the > Oklahoma gravel; I think it can be about any kind of rock, and comes in > several different sizes, none of which are as small as the "chat" from > Oklahoma. It is usually landscaping rock. > > Margaret > > >My home state is Kansas where roads beyond the villages and cities are > >usually sand and chert. However, in Kansas and perhaps in other areas of > >the mid-west the chert on the road iscalled "chat", a term commonly used by > >road crews and geologists in Kansas. > >"Chat" is a creamy to tan opaque chert that mades traveling on unpaved > >roads dangerous for windshields. Since Kansas is fairly level you can see a > >cloud of dust for miles from an on coming car. When it rains these roads > >would be unpassible if it weren't for the sand and chert "chat". > > Carolyn Reynard > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From mazzola3 at msu.edu Fri Jul 28 15:19:59 2006 From: mazzola3 at msu.edu (Melissa Lynn Mazzola) Date: Sat Jul 29 13:49:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] lava falls In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060626183300.0368d2a8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <200607282220.k6SMK1uQ021908@bubbleator.drizzle.com> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 12:44 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] lava falls Hi List, Here's a reminder that the USGS keeps a daily update on the lava here on the Big Island. For those who are not familiar with the site, all photos are worth clicking on "large" for a full-screen view. Also "Image Archive" at the top takes you to photos going back to 1997, including some spectacular scenes of lava going into the ocean. The following website shows new lava falls dropping over a cliff about 12 - 15 meters high. http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html Aloha, Kitty _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From info at rkgems.com Sat Jul 29 08:54:43 2006 From: info at rkgems.com (RKInfo) Date: Sat Jul 29 13:49:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Re: Yourmailtoinfo@rkgems.com References: <7aac8040607222230s42a8ebc8w547f9ea5a492838d@mail.gmail.com><6.2.1.2.0.20060723093111.036e99c0@mail.hawaiiantel.net><004f01c6aebe$fa9fbe30$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A><007e01c6aec1$d5ce3520$6601a8c0@CMC3101861A><7.0.0.16.2.20060723204105.0469be58@orerockon.com><3oo8c253etfn6jkhtdth9oruetcsaaios1@4ax.com> <003701c6af2d$6796c100$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <000e01c6b327$51491bc0$f1b865cb@Rizwan> Hello Guys, We regret the inconvenience. Regards Rizwan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:28 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Re: Yourmailtoinfo@rkgems.com > John unsubscribed them yesterday morning, and sent them an e-mail asking > them to fix the problem. They must have resubscribed. I'll have him ban > them temporarily later today. > > Julie > > > > >> www.rkgems.com . They're in Pakistan, and apparently they're on >> holiday, or something. Can't our list monitors remove them from the >> sanctioned senders until they can be contacted, or wake up? > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From bg at his.com Fri Jul 28 11:25:18 2006 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Sat Jul 29 16:15:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Yellow Crystals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <86b999d491b4d15952c37cf0f293f8b5@his.com> how about fluorite? cathy On Jul 28, 2006, at 12:50 PM, David Lehker wrote: > I am in San Francisco for a conference over the week-end and in > strolling through china town came across several crystals that are a > translucent pale yellow-green. They look like pale amethyst > crystals, clear in some areas with modest coloration but again are > light yellow -green with varying degree of color intensity. The > facets appear enhanced. The range in size from one to three inches > high and 1/2 to two inches across. The proprietor did not speak > English well, but indicated they came from china. Any ideas? Thanks > in advance, Dave > PS. Any good rock or mineral shops or displays in San Fran. ? > > > David Lehker, MSW, CSW From dr00bert at gmail.com Sat Jul 29 18:06:48 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Sat Jul 29 18:06:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Yellow Crystals In-Reply-To: <86b999d491b4d15952c37cf0f293f8b5@his.com> References: <86b999d491b4d15952c37cf0f293f8b5@his.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040607291806v42f8c87fu13030d9fc1b2598b@mail.gmail.com> True citrine is pale yellow, the heat treated amethyst is a more rich orange color. If I were a betting man, I would bet that it was heat-treated amethyst. Most all of the citrine cathedrals coming from Brazil are heat-treated amethyst. Here is a pic of what I would call heat-treated amethyst "citrine", http://www.bernardine.com/images/stones/citrine/citrine-rough1.jpg Here is a "citrine" cathedral, http://petrifinds.us/store/images/BrazilianGeodes_CitrineCathedral.jpg Here is a pic of what looks to be natural citrine, http://www.mineralminers.com/images/citrine/polx/citp191.jpg Drew On 7/28/06, Catherine Gaber wrote: > > how about fluorite? > > cathy > > On Jul 28, 2006, at 12:50 PM, David Lehker wrote: > > > I am in San Francisco for a conference over the week-end and in > > strolling through china town came across several crystals that are a > > translucent pale yellow-green. They look like pale amethyst > > crystals, clear in some areas with modest coloration but again are > > light yellow -green with varying degree of color intensity. The > > facets appear enhanced. The range in size from one to three inches > > high and 1/2 to two inches across. The proprietor did not speak > > English well, but indicated they came from china. Any ideas? Thanks > > in advance, Dave > > PS. Any good rock or mineral shops or displays in San Fran. ? > > > > > > David Lehker, MSW, CSW > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From folmstead at rcn.com Sat Jul 29 20:18:11 2006 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Sat Jul 29 20:18:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] MARS - within 34,649,589 miles of Earth In-Reply-To: <072520061417.17908.44C6280F00099368000045F4216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <072520061417.17908.44C6280F00099368000045F4216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <44CC24F3.4000204@rcn.com> HI 'GUYS' What have you heard about this: ????? ITEM: "The Red Planet is about to be spectacular!" <> This month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again. The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month. NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From folmstead at rcn.com Sat Jul 29 20:21:42 2006 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Sat Jul 29 20:21:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] MARS / Pensacola Junior College - News Item Message-ID: <44CC25C6.2020408@rcn.com> HI Check this too... http://pjc.edu/news/newsItem.aspx?NewsID=991 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Sat Jul 29 20:21:52 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Sat Jul 29 20:21:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] MARS - within 34,649,589 miles of Earth In-Reply-To: <44CC24F3.4000204@rcn.com> References: <072520061417.17908.44C6280F00099368000045F4216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <44CC24F3.4000204@rcn.com> Message-ID: <44CC25D0.40701@jeanniusdesigns.com> ugh....this happened in 2003 or so..it's old news.....it's NOT happening this year!! it gets circulated every summer since. Jeanne ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Frederick Olmstead wrote: > HI 'GUYS' > > What have you heard about this: ????? > > ITEM: > "The Red Planet is about to be spectacular!" > > > <> This month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars > in an encounter that will culminate in the closest approach between > the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come this > close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and > perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not > come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as > long as 60,000 years before it happens again. > > > The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to > within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the > brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 > and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power > magnification Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked > eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will > rise in the east at 10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. > > By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will > rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. > That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen > in recorded history. So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August > to see Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the > month. > > > NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN. > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From folmstead at rcn.com Sat Jul 29 20:47:20 2006 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Sat Jul 29 20:47:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] MARS -more...FUNNIE In-Reply-To: <44CC25D0.40701@jeanniusdesigns.com> References: <072520061417.17908.44C6280F00099368000045F4216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <44CC24F3.4000204@rcn.com> <44CC25D0.40701@jeanniusdesigns.com> Message-ID: <44CC2BC8.30906@rcn.com> About.com <> Mars Closest To Earth in 50,000 Years >From Nick Greene , Your Guide to Space / Astronomy . FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now! Mars Closest Approach to Earth Mars Closest to Earth 2005 Update August of 2003 is a special time for scientists and amateur astronomers. Our red neighbor, Mars will move closer than it's been in 50,000 years. On August 27, 2003, the "red planet" will be less than 55.76 million kilometers (34.65 million miles) away from the Earth. That sounds like a huge distance, but in stellar terms, that's a stone's throw. Just six months ago, Mars was about five times that distance. "Think of Earth and Mars as two race cars going around a track," said Dr. Myles Standish, an astronomer from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "Earth is on a race track that is inside the track that Mars goes around, and neither track is perfectly circular. There is one place where the two race tracks are closest together. When Earth and Mars are at that place simultaneously, it is an unusually close approach, referred to as a 'perihelic opposition'." The term "opposition" means that Earth and another planet are lined up in the same direction from the Sun. "Perihelic comes from perihelion, the orbital point when a celestial body is closest to the Sun. This event brings Mars to its perihelion to the Sun opposition with Earth at the same time. Opposition occurs about every two years, when Earth with its faster orbit passes Mars. In 1995, the opposition brought Mars 101.1 million kilometers (62.8 million miles) from the Earth, twice as far as this most recent approach. "It gets more complicated as the race tracks are changing shape and size and are rotating, changing their orientation," Standish explains. "So this place where the two tracks are closest together constantly changes, changing the opposition closeness as well. This is why a 'great' approach, like the one this month, hasn't happened in 50,000 years. But with the tracks closer together now, there will be even closer approaches in the relatively near future." --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html image/gif --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Jul 29 21:32:29 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Jul 29 21:32:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] MARS -more...FUNNIE Message-ID: I saw this in 2003 also and went out and enjoyed the view both with binoculars and my regular glasses. (A few years earlier it would have been with the naked eye.) Even though that was the closest for a long time, Mars is still making relatively close passes to us and can be enjoyed without expensive equipment. BTW, we live near Mobile, and Pensacola is quite near us. Anyone else in the very deep South? Glenn Wimpee Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 23:47:20 -0400From: folmstead@rcn.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] MARS -more...FUNNIEhttp://www.strudel.org.uk/blog/astro/index.shtml> Mars Closest To Earth in 50,000 Years _________________________________________________________________ Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care about in one place. http://www.live.com/getstarted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Jul 30 04:59:40 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Jul 30 04:59:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] MARS - within 34,649,589 miles of Earth References: <072520061417.17908.44C6280F00099368000045F4216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <44CC24F3.4000204@rcn.com> Message-ID: <002101c6b3cf$a39968a0$c0089444@remains> http://www.hoax-slayer.com/mars-earth-close.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Olmstead" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:18 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] MARS - within 34,649,589 miles of Earth > HI 'GUYS' > > What have you heard about this: ????? > > ITEM: > "The Red Planet is about to be spectacular!" > > > <> This month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars in an > encounter that will culminate in the closest approach between the two > planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come this close is in > 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its > orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close > to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years > before it happens again. > > > The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within > 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest > object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will > appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification Mars > will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be easy > to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10p.m. > and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. > > By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise > at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's > pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in > recorded history. So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see > Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month. > > > NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN. > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jlkelly1066 at iglide.net Sun Jul 30 22:35:49 2006 From: jlkelly1066 at iglide.net (JL Kelly) Date: Sun Jul 30 22:37:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! In-Reply-To: <200607310100.k6V10BrA019989@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200607310100.k6V10BrA019989@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <44CD96B5.9010801@iglide.net> Can we QUIT with the bit about Mars. It has been said, it comes out every year and every year someone claims that it is gonna be a big or as bright as a full moon. Come on friends, before you promote this kind of stuff take the time to go to the NASA site or any of the astronomy sites around the web and confirm. Mars as big as a full moon! Oh, please! No, I do not mean to insult anyone but we all have the responsibility to show some responsibility when we post "ANYTHING" to any site to make sure it is *_accurate. _*Kelly*_ _* From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Mon Jul 31 05:47:47 2006 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Mon Jul 31 05:47:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spruce Pine Show Message-ID: <44CDFBF3.2080903@ncmail.net> List, Is anyone going to the Spruce Pine/Grassy Creek Show this week or weekend? Kenny NC Geological Survey From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Jul 31 06:25:12 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Jul 31 06:25:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spruce Pine Show In-Reply-To: <44CDFBF3.2080903@ncmail.net> References: <44CDFBF3.2080903@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040607310625k11384b4oead7e60c727d5c10@mail.gmail.com> Yep! I am heading down Saturday morning and attending the show. Can't wait! Drew On 7/31/06, Kenny Gay wrote: > > List, > Is anyone going to the Spruce Pine/Grassy Creek Show this week or weekend? > Kenny > NC Geological Survey > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From steve at net-link.net Mon Jul 31 08:24:21 2006 From: steve at net-link.net (Steve Johnson) Date: Mon Jul 31 08:24:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FIeld Trip to Mars! A Report from John Carter Message-ID: <200607311524.k6VFOMrd076732@mail2.mx.voyager.net> ... as narrated by Edgar Rice Burroughs: "It was midday, the sun was shining full upon me and the heat of it was rather intense upon my body, yet no greater than would have been true under similar conditions on an Arizona desert. Here and there were slight outcroppings of quartz-bearing rock which glistened in the sunlight; and a little to my left, perhaps a hundred yards, appeared a low, walled enclosure about four feet in height. No water, and no other vegetation than the moss was in evidence, and as I was somewhat thirsty I determined to do a little exploring." Sounds like Panamint Valley to me! - Steve --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lehkerd at gvsu.edu Mon Jul 31 09:03:10 2006 From: lehkerd at gvsu.edu (David Lehker) Date: Mon Jul 31 09:03:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Yellow Crystals Message-ID: Feels too hard, but I haven't tested it, Thanks for the idea. Dave David Lehker, MSW, CSW Grand Valley State University School of Social Work DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 616-331-6597 Fax - 616-331-6570 lehkerd@gvsu.edu >>> bg@his.com 07/28/06 2:25 PM >>> how about fluorite? cathy On Jul 28, 2006, at 12:50 PM, David Lehker wrote: > I am in San Francisco for a conference over the week-end and in > strolling through china town came across several crystals that are a > translucent pale yellow-green. They look like pale amethyst > crystals, clear in some areas with modest coloration but again are > light yellow -green with varying degree of color intensity. The > facets appear enhanced. The range in size from one to three inches > high and 1/2 to two inches across. The proprietor did not speak > English well, but indicated they came from china. Any ideas? Thanks > in advance, Dave > PS. Any good rock or mineral shops or displays in San Fran. ? > > > David Lehker, MSW, CSW -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From bobl at peaktopeak.com Mon Jul 31 09:06:07 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Mon Jul 31 09:06:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! In-Reply-To: <44CD96B5.9010801@iglide.net> Message-ID: <200607311606.k6VG68pD025144@bubbleator.drizzle.com> It said that "At a modest 75-power magnification Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye." For the astronomers out there, could that be true? The full moon to the naked eye is around 30 arc minutes (I looked this up on the web), which is 1800 arc seconds. Mars was supposed to appear 25.11 arc seconds wide (according to the e-mail back in 2003). So if you multiply that by 75, you get 1883.25 arc seconds which is roughly the average size of the moon (from our perspective). Does that calculation make sense (theoretically and realistically)? Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of JL Kelly Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 11:36 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! Can we QUIT with the bit about Mars. It has been said, it comes out every year and every year someone claims that it is gonna be a big or as bright as a full moon. Come on friends, before you promote this kind of stuff take the time to go to the NASA site or any of the astronomy sites around the web and confirm. Mars as big as a full moon! Oh, please! No, I do not mean to insult anyone but we all have the responsibility to show some responsibility when we post "ANYTHING" to any site to make sure it is *_accurate. _*Kelly*_ _* -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From bobl at peaktopeak.com Mon Jul 31 09:06:07 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Mon Jul 31 09:06:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] MARS - within 34,649,589 miles of Earth In-Reply-To: <002101c6b3cf$a39968a0$c0089444@remains> Message-ID: <200607311606.k6VG68pE025144@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Another website for sniffing out e-mail hoaxes is: www.snopes.com For this Mars hoax, see: http://www.snopes.com/science/mars.asp Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Michael Schmidt Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 6:00 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] MARS - within 34,649,589 miles of Earth http://www.hoax-slayer.com/mars-earth-close.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Olmstead" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:18 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] MARS - within 34,649,589 miles of Earth > HI 'GUYS' > > What have you heard about this: ????? > > ITEM: > "The Red Planet is about to be spectacular!" > > > <> This month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars in an > encounter that will culminate in the closest approach between the two > planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come this close is in > 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its > orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close > to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years > before it happens again. > > > The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within > 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest > object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will > appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification Mars > will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be easy > to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10p.m. > and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. > > By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise > at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's > pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in > recorded history. So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see > Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month. > > > NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN. > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Jul 31 09:07:04 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Jul 31 09:07:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Identifying Slickensides Message-ID: <7aac8040607310907l264816e8p3ae2c7c0e5ade8a4@mail.gmail.com> A buddy of mine brought me a ~40lb. chunk of unakite yesterday. He found it in a creek near Vesuvius, VA. The rock isn't rounded, so I assume it hasn't been in the creek too awful long, but one side of it has vertical striations and indentions. I thought it looked like a slickenside, but wasn't sure. How would I go about figuring out if it is indeed a slickenside? Thanks, Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lehkerd at gvsu.edu Mon Jul 31 09:13:31 2006 From: lehkerd at gvsu.edu (David Lehker) Date: Mon Jul 31 09:13:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Yellow Crystals Message-ID: Based on the photos you found, I think the third one, or natural citrine is the closest. I couldn't get the first link to open, but they are definitely not as orange as the cathedral and look much more pale to almost smokey like the third image. Thanks for the research! Is one, natural vs. heat treated more desirable? Dave David Lehker, MSW, CSW Grand Valley State University School of Social Work DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 616-331-6597 Fax - 616-331-6570 lehkerd@gvsu.edu >>> dr00bert@gmail.com 07/29/06 9:06 PM >>> True citrine is pale yellow, the heat treated amethyst is a more rich orange color. If I were a betting man, I would bet that it was heat-treated amethyst. Most all of the citrine cathedrals coming from Brazil are heat-treated amethyst. Here is a pic of what I would call heat-treated amethyst "citrine", http://www.bernardine.com/images/stones/citrine/citrine-rough1.jpg Here is a "citrine" cathedral, http://petrifinds.us/store/images/BrazilianGeodes_CitrineCathedral.jpg Here is a pic of what looks to be natural citrine, http://www.mineralminers.com/images/citrine/polx/citp191.jpg Drew On 7/28/06, Catherine Gaber wrote: > > how about fluorite? > > cathy > > On Jul 28, 2006, at 12:50 PM, David Lehker wrote: > > > I am in San Francisco for a conference over the week-end and in > > strolling through china town came across several crystals that are a > > translucent pale yellow-green. They look like pale amethyst > > crystals, clear in some areas with modest coloration but again are > > light yellow -green with varying degree of color intensity. The > > facets appear enhanced. The range in size from one to three inches > > high and 1/2 to two inches across. The proprietor did not speak > > English well, but indicated they came from china. Any ideas? Thanks > > in advance, Dave > > PS. Any good rock or mineral shops or displays in San Fran. ? > > > > > > David Lehker, MSW, CSW > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Jul 31 09:21:39 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jul 31 09:21:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! In-Reply-To: <200607311606.k6VG68pD025144@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <44CD96B5.9010801@iglide.net> <200607311606.k6VG68pD025144@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: If you carefully read this stuff, you will see that it says that it will appear the same size as the moon when viewed thru a 75X telescope....duh. < http://www.universetoday.com/2006/07/27/no-mars-wont-look-as-big-as-the-moon-in-august/ > BK On 7/31/06, Bob Loeffler wrote: > > It said that "At a modest 75-power magnification Mars will look as large > as > the full moon to the naked eye." > > For the astronomers out there, could that be true? The full moon to the > naked eye is around 30 arc minutes (I looked this up on the web), which is > 1800 arc seconds. Mars was supposed to appear 25.11 arc seconds wide > (according to the e-mail back in 2003). So if you multiply that by 75, > you > get 1883.25 arc seconds which is roughly the average size of the moon > (from > our perspective). Does that calculation make sense (theoretically and > realistically)? > > Bob > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jul 31 09:29:57 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jul 31 09:30:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Identifying Slickensides Message-ID: <073120061629.6931.44CE3004000B2D4400001B13216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Usually "slicks" are pretty obvious, Drew. A surface with parallel grooves, somewhat polished looking... not sure what else to say. There's no reason that unakite might not show slickensides, it well could. I just browsed on Google Images, this picture is what I would call a good one of "classic" slickensides: http://www.env.duke.edu/eos/geo41/st050.gif (you know, I browsed through all the images that came up, this is the only real good clear one that well illustrates what slickensides look like, of all 7 pages of slickenside photos that it found; most of the others were small, dark, unclear, vague, etc., just not great textbook examples of it) Pete -------------- Original message from Drew : -------------- > A buddy of mine brought me a ~40lb. chunk of unakite yesterday. He found it > in a creek near Vesuvius, VA. The rock isn't rounded, so I assume it hasn't > been in the creek too awful long, but one side of it has vertical striations > and indentions. I thought it looked like a slickenside, but wasn't sure. > How would I go about figuring out if it is indeed a slickenside? > > Thanks, > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Jul 31 09:53:32 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Jul 31 09:53:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Identifying Slickensides References: <073120061629.6931.44CE3004000B2D4400001B13216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <000601c6b4c1$dbd14290$32971b4b@LarryRush> Slickensides will often feel smooth and "soapy" in one direction, and a bit splintery in the other, when your palm is slid up or down on the vertical surface of one. You can sometimes tell up and down by the presence of minute grooves. The difference results from the tearing away of small particles in one direction and the smoothing, or sanding in the other, as the movement occurs. Larry Rush =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:29 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Identifying Slickensides > Usually "slicks" are pretty obvious, Drew. A surface with parallel > grooves, somewhat polished looking... not sure what else to say. There's > no reason that unakite might not show slickensides, it well could. > > I just browsed on Google Images, this picture is what I would call a good > one of "classic" slickensides: > > http://www.env.duke.edu/eos/geo41/st050.gif > > (you know, I browsed through all the images that came up, this is the only > real good clear one that well illustrates what slickensides look like, of > all 7 pages of slickenside photos that it found; most of the others were > small, dark, unclear, vague, etc., just not great textbook examples of it) > > Pete > -------------- Original message from Drew > : -------------- > > >> A buddy of mine brought me a ~40lb. chunk of unakite yesterday. He found >> it >> in a creek near Vesuvius, VA. The rock isn't rounded, so I assume it >> hasn't >> been in the creek too awful long, but one side of it has vertical >> striations >> and indentions. I thought it looked like a slickenside, but wasn't sure. >> How would I go about figuring out if it is indeed a slickenside? >> >> Thanks, >> Drew >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From SHMM at sussexonline.com Mon Jul 31 10:29:13 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Mon Jul 31 10:29:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Identifying Slickensides In-Reply-To: <7aac8040607310907l264816e8p3ae2c7c0e5ade8a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c6b4c6$d81a14b0$956a1540@D3JM7W21> Oh boy, you'd think this would be a simple question, but noooooo . . . OK, there are two major types of slickensides. The first consists of mechanical scratches on a fault surface and results from the rock on one side of the fault moving relative to the other. Where the two sides are in contact you get abrasion, and thus the production of fragmental material that is generally referred to as fault gouge. If you see parallel scratches on a roughly planar face of a rock, chances are good it's a slickenside unless you live in a glaciated area, in which case they could be glacial scratches. For Vesuvius, go with the slickensides. By the way, the unakite from that locality is quite nice -- I remember it well from a field trip in (gasp!) 1967. The other type of slickenside results from the growth of fibrous minerals within openings along the fault during fault movement. Collectively these are referred to as accretionary fibers. You'll see them often as fibrous quartz or calcite, but many other minerals form this way too. With a hand lens you can often see where individual fibers are attached to the rock wall. That's where they began their growth, and as the fault slipped the fibers elongated into the growing (extending) void. When accretionary fillings within faults are broken open the broken ends of the fibers often form little steps or ledges -- these are what structural geologists use to tell the sense of slip on a fault. In unakite I'd expect accretionary fibers of quartz or epidote, so take out your hand lens and see what you've got. Incidentally, the term "slickenside" refers to the fault surface itself, not to the scratches or fibers on that surface. You used the term correctly, and I thank you for that! Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Drew Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:07 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Identifying Slickensides A buddy of mine brought me a ~40lb. chunk of unakite yesterday. He found it in a creek near Vesuvius, VA. The rock isn't rounded, so I assume it hasn't been in the creek too awful long, but one side of it has vertical striations and indentions. I thought it looked like a slickenside, but wasn't sure. How would I go about figuring out if it is indeed a slickenside? Thanks, Drew From SHMM at sussexonline.com Mon Jul 31 11:09:11 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Mon Jul 31 11:09:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Identifying Slickensides In-Reply-To: <073120061629.6931.44CE3004000B2D4400001B13216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <000101c6b4cc$6d944740$956a1540@D3JM7W21> Pete's message came in after I'd sent my reply, but the photo in the link that Pete provided is a good example of accretionary fibers on a fault surface. See all those little steps facing to the right? That tells you which way the fault slipped. In this case the side of the fault that you're looking at in the photograph moved to the left, and the missing block of rock moved to the right. What Larry wrote about in his reply, that the fault feels smooth in one direction and splintery in another, is also illustrated by the photo. If you rubbed your hand left-to-right on this fault surface it would feel smooth. If you rubbed your hand right-to-left you'd run into all those little steps and it would feel rough. That's how you can determine which way this particular fault moved. For mechanical scratches on a fault surface it's not nearly that simple. Worse, additional minor fractures can form on a fault surface as movement proceeds, and these introduce little steps of their own -- steps that in some cases face in the OPPOSITE direction of the accretionary mineral fibers. Numerous papers in the geological literature are devoted to slip-sense criteria on faults. It gets pretty fascinating if you're into that kind of thing . . . Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of pjmodreski@att.net Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:30 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Identifying Slickensides Usually "slicks" are pretty obvious, Drew. A surface with parallel grooves, somewhat polished looking... not sure what else to say. There's no reason that unakite might not show slickensides, it well could. I just browsed on Google Images, this picture is what I would call a good one of "classic" slickensides: http://www.env.duke.edu/eos/geo41/st050.gif From bobl at peaktopeak.com Mon Jul 31 11:09:17 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Mon Jul 31 11:09:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200607311809.k6VI9IsF002958@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Ummmm... Isn't that what I said???? Duh! I guess I was hoping for some people who know about astronomy to confirm that the calculation is as simple as what I stated, and that they looked at Mars in 2003 and agree that it was as large as the moon (using 75x). I remember looking at it and didn't see it as being nearly that large in my telescope and didn't see any details that would be evident at that magnification. Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 10:22 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! If you carefully read this stuff, you will see that it says that it will appear the same size as the moon when viewed thru a 75X telescope....duh. < http://www.universetoday.com/2006/07/27/no-mars-wont-look-as-big-as-the-moon -in-august/ > BK On 7/31/06, Bob Loeffler wrote: > > It said that "At a modest 75-power magnification Mars will look as large > as > the full moon to the naked eye." > > For the astronomers out there, could that be true? The full moon to the > naked eye is around 30 arc minutes (I looked this up on the web), which is > 1800 arc seconds. Mars was supposed to appear 25.11 arc seconds wide > (according to the e-mail back in 2003). So if you multiply that by 75, > you > get 1883.25 arc seconds which is roughly the average size of the moon > (from > our perspective). Does that calculation make sense (theoretically and > realistically)? > > Bob > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Jul 31 11:18:58 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jul 31 11:19:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! In-Reply-To: <200607311809.k6VI9IsF002958@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200607311809.k6VI9IsF002958@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Sorry Bill that ...duh wasn't aimed at you but at the idiots who published this stuff in the first place. BK On 7/31/06, Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Ummmm... Isn't that what I said???? Duh! > > I guess I was hoping for some people who know about astronomy to confirm > that the calculation is as simple as what I stated, and that they looked > at > Mars in 2003 and agree that it was as large as the moon (using 75x). I > remember looking at it and didn't see it as being nearly that large in my > telescope and didn't see any details that would be evident at that > magnification. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 10:22 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! > > If you carefully read this stuff, you will see that it says that it will > appear the same size as the moon when viewed thru a 75X telescope....duh. > > < > > http://www.universetoday.com/2006/07/27/no-mars-wont-look-as-big-as-the-moon > -in-august/ > > > > BK > > On 7/31/06, Bob Loeffler wrote: > > > > It said that "At a modest 75-power magnification Mars will look as large > > as > > the full moon to the naked eye." > > > > For the astronomers out there, could that be true? The full moon to the > > naked eye is around 30 arc minutes (I looked this up on the web), which > is > > 1800 arc seconds. Mars was supposed to appear 25.11 arc seconds wide > > (according to the e-mail back in 2003). So if you multiply that by 75, > > you > > get 1883.25 arc seconds which is roughly the average size of the moon > > (from > > our perspective). Does that calculation make sense (theoretically and > > realistically)? > > > > Bob > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Jul 31 12:32:01 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Jul 31 12:32:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Identifying Slickensides In-Reply-To: <000101c6b4cc$6d944740$956a1540@D3JM7W21> References: <073120061629.6931.44CE3004000B2D4400001B13216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <000101c6b4cc$6d944740$956a1540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <7aac8040607311232nc7c27ack923f2f9bf68359b4@mail.gmail.com> I'll take a look at the sample this evening and see what I can find out. Thanks for the replies, as always this group has an answer to everything! Drew On 7/31/06, Earl Verbeek wrote: > > > Pete's message came in after I'd sent my reply, but the photo in the link > that Pete provided is a good example of accretionary fibers on a fault > surface. See all those little steps facing to the right? That tells you > which way the fault slipped. In this case the side of the fault that > you're > looking at in the photograph moved to the left, and the missing block of > rock moved to the right. > > What Larry wrote about in his reply, that the fault feels smooth in one > direction and splintery in another, is also illustrated by the photo. If > you rubbed your hand left-to-right on this fault surface it would feel > smooth. If you rubbed your hand right-to-left you'd run into all those > little steps and it would feel rough. That's how you can determine which > way this particular fault moved. > > For mechanical scratches on a fault surface it's not nearly that simple. > Worse, additional minor fractures can form on a fault surface as movement > proceeds, and these introduce little steps of their own -- steps that in > some cases face in the OPPOSITE direction of the accretionary mineral > fibers. Numerous papers in the geological literature are devoted to > slip-sense criteria on faults. It gets pretty fascinating if you're into > that kind of thing . . . > > Cheers- Earl > > ----------------------------------- > Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist > Sterling Hill Mining Museum > 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 > 973-209-7212 > shmm@sussexonline.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > pjmodreski@att.net > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:30 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Identifying Slickensides > > Usually "slicks" are pretty obvious, Drew. A surface with parallel > grooves, > somewhat polished looking... not sure what else to say. There's no reason > that unakite might not show slickensides, it well could. > > I just browsed on Google Images, this picture is what I would call a good > one of "classic" slickensides: > > http://www.env.duke.edu/eos/geo41/st050.gif > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jul 31 12:37:21 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jul 31 12:37:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Identifying Slickensides Message-ID: <073120061937.6436.44CE5BEF0006A75400001924216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Ah, excellent, you got a reply from Dr. Earl Verbeek, who is definitely one of our nation's experts on such things! Earl has studied fault surfaces up and down (or should I say, back and forth) across the country, and I guess beyond, from Franklin NJ to the Great Basin. I knew he'd have much to add (Larry's comments were good too). Way to go, Earl! Pete -------------- Original message from "Earl Verbeek" : -------------- > > Pete's message came in after I'd sent my reply, but the photo in the link > that Pete provided is a good example of accretionary fibers on a fault > surface. See all those little steps facing to the right? That tells you > which way the fault slipped. In this case the side of the fault that you're > looking at in the photograph moved to the left, and the missing block of > rock moved to the right. > > What Larry wrote about in his reply, that the fault feels smooth in one > direction and splintery in another, is also illustrated by the photo. If > you rubbed your hand left-to-right on this fault surface it would feel > smooth. If you rubbed your hand right-to-left you'd run into all those > little steps and it would feel rough. That's how you can determine which > way this particular fault moved. > > For mechanical scratches on a fault surface it's not nearly that simple. > Worse, additional minor fractures can form on a fault surface as movement > proceeds, and these introduce little steps of their own -- steps that in > some cases face in the OPPOSITE direction of the accretionary mineral > fibers. Numerous papers in the geological literature are devoted to > slip-sense criteria on faults. It gets pretty fascinating if you're into > that kind of thing . . . > > Cheers- Earl > > ----------------------------------- > Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist > Sterling Hill Mining Museum > 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 > 973-209-7212 > shmm@sussexonline.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > pjmodreski@att.net > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:30 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Identifying Slickensides > > Usually "slicks" are pretty obvious, Drew. A surface with parallel grooves, > somewhat polished looking... not sure what else to say. There's no reason > that unakite might not show slickensides, it well could. > > I just browsed on Google Images, this picture is what I would call a good > one of "classic" slickensides: > > http://www.env.duke.edu/eos/geo41/st050.gif > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 31 12:37:50 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Jul 31 12:37:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Country Mineral Retreat Message-ID: <20060731193750.44276.qmail@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Anyone from the list going to the Upper Peninsula (of Michigan) in August? I'll be at the Ishpeming, MI show this coming weekend, then collecting in the copper country the following week. If you're going, drop me a note and we'll see if we can hook up. I'm leaving Wednesday morning, and probably won't have internet access after that, though. Jim Daly --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rutile1 at carolina.rr.com Mon Jul 31 13:43:38 2006 From: rutile1 at carolina.rr.com (Todd Hamrick) Date: Mon Jul 31 13:46:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spruce Pine Show In-Reply-To: <44CDFBF3.2080903@ncmail.net> References: <44CDFBF3.2080903@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <44CE6B7A.4000705@carolina.rr.com> Kenny Gay wrote: > List, > Is anyone going to the Spruce Pine/Grassy Creek Show this week or > weekend? > Kenny > NC Geological Survey Going tomorrow From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Mon Jul 31 15:00:14 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Mon Jul 31 15:00:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spruce Pine Show In-Reply-To: <44CE6B7A.4000705@carolina.rr.com> References: <44CDFBF3.2080903@ncmail.net> <44CE6B7A.4000705@carolina.rr.com> Message-ID: <44CE7D6E.9000805@jeanniusdesigns.com> what days and hours are the grassy creek show? I went to the G&LW show in Franklin yesterday, but was curious about grassy creek Jeanne ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Todd Hamrick wrote: > Kenny Gay wrote: >> List, >> Is anyone going to the Spruce Pine/Grassy Creek Show this week or >> weekend? >> Kenny >> NC Geological Survey > Going tomorrow > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Mon Jul 31 15:42:02 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Mon Jul 31 15:42:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! References: <200607311606.k6VG68pD025144@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004301c6b4f2$914659f0$6400a8c0@hppav> Of course Mars will also look that big..... if you happen to be on Phobos. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 12:06 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! > It said that "At a modest 75-power magnification Mars will look as large > as > the full moon to the naked eye." > > For the astronomers out there, could that be true? The full moon to the > naked eye is around 30 arc minutes (I looked this up on the web), which is > 1800 arc seconds. Mars was supposed to appear 25.11 arc seconds wide > (according to the e-mail back in 2003). So if you multiply that by 75, > you > get 1883.25 arc seconds which is roughly the average size of the moon > (from > our perspective). Does that calculation make sense (theoretically and > realistically)? > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of JL Kelly > Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 11:36 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! > > Can we QUIT with the bit about Mars. It has been said, it comes out > every year and every year someone claims that it is gonna be a big or as > bright as a full moon. Come on friends, before you promote this kind of > stuff take the time to go to the NASA site or any of the astronomy sites > around the web and confirm. Mars as big as a full moon! Oh, please! > > No, I do not mean to insult anyone but we all have the responsibility to > show some responsibility when we post "ANYTHING" to any site to make > sure it is *_accurate. > > _*Kelly*_ > _* > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jul 31 16:09:20 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jul 31 16:06:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! References: <200607311809.k6VI9IsF002958@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <44CE8D04.7BD4@Tomaszewski.net> Bob, Yes, the calculation is that simple. While Mars may appear to be the size of the moon, you won't get the same viewing resolution. The atmosphere of Mars will hide most details. It is a lot farther away than the moon, and features need to be larger before you can resolve them. Mars is only 25.11 arc seconds wide viewed from Earth. Remember that you are comparing an eyeball view of a close airless object (the Moon) to a magnified view of a distant object with an atmosphere (Mars) based on the apparent arc size. Kreigh Bob Loeffler wrote: > > Ummmm... Isn't that what I said???? Duh! > > I guess I was hoping for some people who know about astronomy to confirm > that the calculation is as simple as what I stated, and that they looked at > Mars in 2003 and agree that it was as large as the moon (using 75x). I > remember looking at it and didn't see it as being nearly that large in my > telescope and didn't see any details that would be evident at that > magnification. > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer > Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 10:22 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mars, again! > > If you carefully read this stuff, you will see that it says that it will > appear the same size as the moon when viewed thru a 75X telescope....duh. > > < > http://www.universetoday.com/2006/07/27/no-mars-wont-look-as-big-as-the-moon > -in-august/ > > > > BK > > On 7/31/06, Bob Loeffler wrote: > > > > It said that "At a modest 75-power magnification Mars will look as large > > as > > the full moon to the naked eye." > > > > For the astronomers out there, could that be true? The full moon to the > > naked eye is around 30 arc minutes (I looked this up on the web), which is > > 1800 arc seconds. Mars was supposed to appear 25.11 arc seconds wide > > (according to the e-mail back in 2003). So if you multiply that by 75, > > you > > get 1883.25 arc seconds which is roughly the average size of the moon > > (from > > our perspective). Does that calculation make sense (theoretically and > > realistically)? > > > > Bob > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Jul 31 21:32:13 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Jul 31 21:32:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spruce Pine Show In-Reply-To: <44CE7D6E.9000805@jeanniusdesigns.com> References: <44CDFBF3.2080903@ncmail.net> <44CE6B7A.4000705@carolina.rr.com> <44CE7D6E.9000805@jeanniusdesigns.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040607312132i71cb6509l72238f2c1fbfd307@mail.gmail.com> On 7/31/06, Jeanne Rhodes Moen wrote: > > what days and hours are the grassy creek show? http://universalrockshop.com/catalog/show_schedule.php Scroll down to Grassy Creek. Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html ---