From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Jun 1 09:15:27 2006 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Jun 1 09:15:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Pole - Wandering Pole In-Reply-To: <4463DCAC.5ACC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <007c01c68596$98abeab0$0600a8c0@okapi> I've been reading in the papers and on line about the "hot" pole of 50 MY ago. What I've not seen, and can't remember, is just WHERE the physical spot they were drilling at was located at 50 MY ago. Specifically... The spot that's right under the north pole RIGHT NOW wasn't under the north pole 50 million years ago. If you look at the continental drift animations that are on line you'll see how much the plates have wandered. So, even though the sediments show a warm-water biotic community 50 MY ago, is that because of climate change, or is that because the spot they were sampling wasn't under the pole then? GcB From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jun 1 09:23:14 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jun 1 09:23:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Pole - Wandering Pole Message-ID: <060120061623.4233.447F1471000A0EFF00001089216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi Gary, I have wondered the same thing, and had just discussed this with another geologist colleague. The news media summaries of this study don't address this question. It is such an obvious factor that I'm sure the researchers must have taken it into account in what they report, but I don't know the answer. As soon as the original articles are published, in the journal Nature (don't know if it will have been received at our library yet), I'll have to read them and see what they say, and I can report back to the List, if someone else doesn't do that first. Although I know North America has been drifting northward since Cretaceous time, and would have been much further south 50 or 55 million years ago, it's possible that the oceanic crust in the spot they were sampling, in the (middle??) of the Arctic Ocean, may not have drifted so far. I'll let you know what I find out. Pete Modreski (USGS, Denver CO) -------------- Original message from "Gary Brown" : -------------- > I've been reading in the papers and on line about the "hot" pole of 50 MY > ago. What I've not seen, and can't remember, is just WHERE the physical > spot they were drilling at was located at 50 MY ago. Specifically... The > spot that's right under the north pole RIGHT NOW wasn't under the north pole > 50 million years ago. If you look at the continental drift animations that > are on line you'll see how much the plates have wandered. So, even though > the sediments show a warm-water biotic community 50 MY ago, is that because > of climate change, or is that because the spot they were sampling wasn't > under the pole then? > > GcB > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jun 1 09:45:32 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jun 1 09:45:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Pole - Wandering Pole In-Reply-To: <060120061623.4233.447F1471000A0EFF00001089216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <060120061623.4233.447F1471000A0EFF00001089216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Try this URL: It has animations of the plates wandering around. It looks like Antarctica was southish at the beginning of the Mesozoic and then moved down to the current position and stayed there. BK On 6/1/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Hi Gary, > > I have wondered the same thing, and had just discussed this with another > geologist colleague. The news media summaries of this study don't address > this question. It is such an obvious factor that I'm sure the researchers > must have taken it into account in what they report, but I don't know the > answer. As soon as the original articles are published, in the journal > Nature (don't know if it will have been received at our library yet), I'll > have to read them and see what they say, and I can report back to the List, > if someone else doesn't do that first. > > Although I know North America has been drifting northward since Cretaceous > time, and would have been much further south 50 or 55 million years ago, > it's possible that the oceanic crust in the spot they were sampling, in the > (middle??) of the Arctic Ocean, may not have drifted so far. I'll let you > know what I find out. > > Pete Modreski (USGS, Denver CO) > > -------------- Original message from "Gary Brown" < > gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com>: -------------- > > > > I've been reading in the papers and on line about the "hot" pole of 50 > MY > > ago. What I've not seen, and can't remember, is just WHERE the physical > > spot they were drilling at was located at 50 MY ago. Specifically... The > > spot that's right under the north pole RIGHT NOW wasn't under the north > pole > > 50 million years ago. If you look at the continental drift animations > that > > are on line you'll see how much the plates have wandered. So, even > though > > the sediments show a warm-water biotic community 50 MY ago, is that > because > > of climate change, or is that because the spot they were sampling wasn't > > under the pole then? > > > > GcB > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jun 1 10:00:08 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jun 1 10:00:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Pole - Wandering Pole Message-ID: <060120061700.14674.447F1D17000E1CCC00003952216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> >From looking at some of these plate movement animations (the site Bryan gave the link for, which in turn is linked to the "Paleomap" website), it looks like the Arctic region did pretty much remain all still above the Arctic Circle, all through the Tertiary Period. It's a little hard to tell; most of the maps focus on the continents and view earth from the equator, so it's hard to tell about the polar region, way up at the edge of the global map. Pete -------------- Original message from "J Bryan Kramer" : -------------- > Try this URL: > > > > It has animations of the plates wandering around. It looks like Antarctica > was southish at the beginning of the Mesozoic and then moved down to the > current position and stayed there. > > BK > > On 6/1/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > Hi Gary, > > > > I have wondered the same thing, and had just discussed this with another > > geologist colleague. The news media summaries of this study don't address > > this question. It is such an obvious factor that I'm sure the researchers > > must have taken it into account in what they report, but I don't know the > > answer. As soon as the original articles are published, in the journal > > Nature (don't know if it will have been received at our library yet), I'll > > have to read them and see what they say, and I can report back to the List, > > if someone else doesn't do that first. > > > > Although I know North America has been drifting northward since Cretaceous > > time, and would have been much further south 50 or 55 million years ago, > > it's possible that the oceanic crust in the spot they were sampling, in the > > (middle??) of the Arctic Ocean, may not have drifted so far. I'll let you > > know what I find out. > > > > Pete Modreski (USGS, Denver CO) > > > > -------------- Original message from "Gary Brown" < > > gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com>: -------------- > > > > > > > I've been reading in the papers and on line about the "hot" pole of 50 > > MY > > > ago. What I've not seen, and can't remember, is just WHERE the physical > > > spot they were drilling at was located at 50 MY ago. Specifically... The > > > spot that's right under the north pole RIGHT NOW wasn't under the north > > pole > > > 50 million years ago. If you look at the continental drift animations > > that > > > are on line you'll see how much the plates have wandered. So, even > > though > > > the sediments show a warm-water biotic community 50 MY ago, is that > > because > > > of climate change, or is that because the spot they were sampling wasn't > > > under the pole then? > > > > > > GcB > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mrmanon at umich.edu Thu Jun 1 10:42:16 2006 From: mrmanon at umich.edu (Matthew Manon) Date: Thu Jun 1 10:43:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Pole - Wandering Pole In-Reply-To: <060120061700.14674.447F1D17000E1CCC00003952216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <060120061700.14674.447F1D17000E1CCC00003952216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: In the figure from the paper (doi:10.1038/nature04800) they give a =20 paleo-pole, and the site was at ~83=FBN and 70=FBE, (the current = locatoin =20 is ~88=FBN, 145=FBE). They don't cite the specific plate reconstruction = =20 used. -Matt Manon On Jun 1, 2006, at 1:00 PM, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >> =46rom looking at some of these plate movement animations (the site =20= >> Bryan gave the link for, which in turn is linked to the "Paleomap" =20= >> website), it looks like the Arctic region did pretty much remain =20 >> all still above the Arctic Circle, all through the Tertiary =20 >> Period. It's a little hard to tell; most of the maps focus on the =20= >> continents and view earth from the equator, so it's hard to tell =20 >> about the polar region, way up at the edge of the global map. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from "J Bryan Kramer" =20 > : -------------- > > >> Try this URL: >> >> >> >> It has animations of the plates wandering around. It looks like =20 >> Antarctica >> was southish at the beginning of the Mesozoic and then moved down =20 >> to the >> current position and stayed there. >> >> BK >> >> On 6/1/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >>> >>> Hi Gary, >>> >>> I have wondered the same thing, and had just discussed this with =20 >>> another >>> geologist colleague. The news media summaries of this study don't =20= >>> address >>> this question. It is such an obvious factor that I'm sure the =20 >>> researchers >>> must have taken it into account in what they report, but I don't =20 >>> know the >>> answer. As soon as the original articles are published, in the =20 >>> journal >>> Nature (don't know if it will have been received at our library =20 >>> yet), I'll >>> have to read them and see what they say, and I can report back to =20= >>> the List, >>> if someone else doesn't do that first. >>> >>> Although I know North America has been drifting northward since =20 >>> Cretaceous >>> time, and would have been much further south 50 or 55 million =20 >>> years ago, >>> it's possible that the oceanic crust in the spot they were =20 >>> sampling, in the >>> (middle??) of the Arctic Ocean, may not have drifted so far. I'll =20= >>> let you >>> know what I find out. >>> >>> Pete Modreski (USGS, Denver CO) >>> >>> -------------- Original message from "Gary Brown" < >>> gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com>: -------------- >>> >>> >>>> I've been reading in the papers and on line about the "hot" pole =20= >>>> of 50 >>> MY >>>> ago. What I've not seen, and can't remember, is just WHERE the =20 >>>> physical >>>> spot they were drilling at was located at 50 MY ago. =20 >>>> Specifically... The >>>> spot that's right under the north pole RIGHT NOW wasn't under =20 >>>> the north >>> pole >>>> 50 million years ago. If you look at the continental drift =20 >>>> animations >>> that >>>> are on line you'll see how much the plates have wandered. So, even >>> though >>>> the sediments show a warm-water biotic community 50 MY ago, is that >>> because >>>> of climate change, or is that because the spot they were =20 >>>> sampling wasn't >>>> under the pole then? >>>> >>>> GcB >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>> Subscription Services: >>>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>> List Home Page: >>>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jun 1 11:08:08 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jun 1 11:08:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Pole - Wandering Pole Message-ID: <060120061808.26607.447F2D080008F9D3000067EF216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Very good, Matt, I just looked up that paper online and saw the same info. You can see their diagram, a global map centered on the north pole showing the drilling site (red dot) and its paleo-location (black dot) at http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v441/n7093/fig_tab/nature04800_F1.html Pete -------------- Original message from Matthew Manon : -------------- > In the figure from the paper (doi:10.1038/nature04800) they give a > paleo-pole, and the site was at ~83ûN and 70ûE, (the current locatoin > is ~88ûN, 145ûE). They don't cite the specific plate reconstruction > used. > > -Matt Manon --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Jun 1 11:29:39 2006 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Jun 1 11:29:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hot Pole - Wandering Pole In-Reply-To: <060120061808.26607.447F2D080008F9D3000067EF216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <008001c685a9$5aa52f20$0600a8c0@okapi> Thanks! That answers the question I had. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > pjmodreski@att.net > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 1:08 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Hot Pole - Wandering Pole > > Very good, Matt, I just looked up that paper online... From neilvojr at comcast.net Thu Jun 1 17:12:53 2006 From: neilvojr at comcast.net (neilvojr@comcast.net) Date: Thu Jun 1 17:12:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cheap Ultrasonic Cleaner Message-ID: <060220060012.17880.447F82850008BC99000045D822007348409D06019004070A02@comcast.net> I bought one of those eBay ultrasonic cleaners and the work quite well for small stuff, I even put some crystal specimens in that covered the bottom of the tank and had to turn them over to get the tops clean - it did everything I could expect for my $17 total out lay, even cleaned all the tin oxide out of a couple of geodes that had been laying around the shop for quite some time. I do recall quite a number of years ago plans to build one appeared in one of the electronic magazines, it was basically just a transducer, oscillating circut, and tank and had a variable frequency range. Neil Van Oost -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Ronnie Van Dommelen > Hi All, > > I know some of you have ultrasonic cleaners and can help me. On Ebay there are > these cheap ones (might have to cut and paste address in two pieces): > http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-DIGITAL-ULTRASONIC-CLEANER-DENTAL-LAB-INKJET-TATTOO_W0QQi > temZ8940770314QQcategoryZ67720QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > and I have seen similar ones at Radio Shack / Circuit City. I have done a > little research and read that frequency is important (the Ebay one is 42kHz - > low to mid freq). I would also imagine that power and size is important (This > one is small and I would guess low power). Until now, I have only seen > expensive laboratory ones. Would this be a be useful cheap alternative or is > it junk and a waste of money? > > Happy Collecting > Ronnie Van Dommelen > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From neilvojr at comcast.net Thu Jun 1 17:49:21 2006 From: neilvojr at comcast.net (neilvojr@comcast.net) Date: Thu Jun 1 17:49:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gravity feed saw Message-ID: <060220060049.4561.447F8B110008639E000011D122007348409D06019004070A02@comcast.net> I have been using Almag oil for around thirty years or so on both my 10 inch and 24 inch saws with very good results, clean up with kitty litter or just wash in Dawn, best grease cutter around IMHO. I never change my oil until it gets pretty thick, then put the sludge out in five gallon pails with lids. I let it settle and keep skimming the oil off, after a couple of months I've recovered about 80 percent and after another month there is nothing left except a dry chunk of sledge which goes out in the garbage a bit at a time- by then it has no oil smell at all. At one time I had a pulley and weight feed on the 10 inch saw - four coffee cans for my weights, light cans for the agates and heavier can for the soft stuff, how fast you cut depends on the type and quality of your blade, material, and lubricant. I'm using a MK diamond Pro now, that I bought three or four years ago for around $110, except for the motor sound you hardly know your cutting agate - the cheaper blades would sin g so loud they would drive you out of the shop when cutting barz. agate with the automatic feed. Neil Van Oost -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "David Lehker" > Hello Folks, > > For the past month I have been learning how to use an old 10 Inch Frantom > gravity feed saw. I seems to work well but I have noticed that the oil I use, > Lubri Cool from Kingsley North quickly turns to a sledgy black. It still seems > to lubricate but when I visit a friend of mine who also has a 10 inch saw, his > oil seems to stay clear longer than what mine does. Should I be concerned? Any > ideas what's going on. > > Perhaps relatedly, what amount of weight should I be using for the gravity feed? > > Thanks for any ideas or suggestions - I learn new things from this list just > about every day. > > Dave > > David Lehker, MSW, CSW > Grand Valley State University > School of Social Work > DeVos Center, 401 W Fulton > Grand Rapids Michigan 49504 > 616-331-6597 > Fax - 616-331-6570 > lehkerd@gvsu.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From leeper at molalla.net Fri Jun 2 23:56:02 2006 From: leeper at molalla.net (leeper) Date: Fri Jun 2 23:56:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Northern California rockhounding Message-ID: <000901c686da$c72c7590$0b01a8c0@DOUGSPC> I'm traveling around Northern California, from the coast to Death Valley and North, from Oregon. I will probably take I-5 down to the redwoods, then go down to S.F., head over to Yosemete, Sequioa Nat, and Death Valley, and then head north, comming back up thru Eastern Oregon, near the Sunstone area, over to Bend, before hitting the Willamette valley. I already have Tim's locations from Rock-On from last year for Oregon. I have over a week to poke around, on the way back up. Is there any place specific, where specimines are not too hard to find (have wife with me), no 4x4 on this trip, and folks might have GPS co-ordinates for? I already have some of the Obsidian, that is just south of Oregon, east of the lava monument place. If you can, please give me an indication I'm leaving very, very soon. Feel free to email me at l@e#eper@m@o#lalla.net (remove @ and #) Thank you *very* much. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Sat Jun 3 18:05:07 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Sat Jun 3 18:05:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An interesting mapping program Message-ID: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> In browsing through the WNCRocks.com web site I came across a link to this mapping program. http://www.varockhounder.com/maps/index.php?State=Virginia&SiteName=&Mineral = I love GCB's masmils data but this is intriguing. Ted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Sat Jun 3 18:15:40 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Sat Jun 3 18:15:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An interesting mapping program In-Reply-To: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <7aac8040606031815v28dfa3cau8dd271312c7244c7@mail.gmail.com> Actually that is my creation and I would like to add a disclaimer... The data is directly from the MRDS, no editing has been done. There are mounds of duplicates, wrong lat/long data and other data issues. I just have not had enough time to work on getting it all right. As said above, the data is from an external source, therefore you must make sure that you are allowed to collect at the localities before collecting. I will not be held responsible for any issues that may arise from lack of permission or anything else. Other than that, I wish everyone to try it out and see what you think. If you have suggestions or bug reports, just drop me a line at dr00bert@gmail.com Thanks! Drew On 03 Jun 2006 18:05:07 -0700, Ted Kowalski wrote: > > In browsing through the WNCRocks.com web site I came across a link to this > mapping program. > > > http://www.varockhounder.com/maps/index.php?State=Virginia&SiteName=&Mineral > = > > I love GCB's masmils data but this is intriguing. > > Ted > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/ms-tnef > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Jun 3 19:43:12 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Jun 3 19:43:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Swap/Sale References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush> Rock Swap And Sale Saturday, June 10, 2006 9am to 4 pm (Rain Date- Sun. June 11) Museum grounds of the Connecticut Antique Machinery Association, 1 mile north of Kent, CT on Rt.7 Tailgate Swapping $5, Selling $10 Sponsored by the Danbury Mineralogical Society...mineral museum on premises. For info....(860) 354-0296 (This is the 4th year this event has been held, and it has grown every year. Last year, about 20 people set up tables. It is held outside in pleasant, shaded grounds and is especially interesting for Connecticut and area collectors to see what is currently being found in our area.) From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Jun 3 20:30:42 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Jun 3 20:29:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] need thin section slide holder for polishing Message-ID: <448253E2.2080605@verizon.net> Hi all, I am learning to polish probe mounts and thin sections by hand. I don't have a good touch for getting the final polish. I want to practice at home on my lapping machine, but I'm missing one piece of equipment. The lab has this nice little metal block, which on one side has four "walls" of thin metal pate and screws holding them on; you place the slide on that side of the holder and then gently screw down the plates until the slide is held firmly. The plates only rise a very small amount over the block, so the slide itself sticks out above the plates holding it in. I checked with Buehler petrographic products, and they make a $1,200 version of this with depth-stop features and so forth, but it's not the same item. Ours is a simple metal block with thin plates on the side with Phillips-head screws. I've checked with a few other suppliers but no luck. The current manager of the ag-sci lab (where, for some reason, the thin section equipment resides) is new and doesn't know where the holder came from. If anyone has info on where to get one of these, please let me know. Thanks, Don From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sun Jun 4 05:53:12 2006 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sun Jun 4 05:55:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FERSMAN MUSEUM Message-ID: <006501c687d5$f9cbe1b0$5153d0c4@privatehome> Hi List, Last year in April/May, Erika and I visited Europe for 5 1/2 weeks, including four days in Moscow (Russia). Somebody on this list advised me not to give the Fersman Museum in Moscow a miss. I subsequently visited this museum, together with my daughter (who was giving English and German conversation classes to Russian kids and adults at the time, without being able to speak Russian). She took a photograph of this building, as the person advising me about the Museum wanted a photograph. Unfortunately I no longer have a record of this e-mail. Could this person please identify himself, in order that the photograph can be sent to him? Regards., Horst --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Jun 4 07:17:34 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Jun 4 07:17:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] need thin section slide holder for polishing In-Reply-To: <448253E2.2080605@verizon.net> References: <448253E2.2080605@verizon.net> Message-ID: Have you tried a local machine shop? You probably have one on campus, they might be able to fab one for you. BK On 6/3/06, DonH wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I am learning to polish probe mounts and thin sections by hand. I don't > have a good touch for getting the final polish. I want to practice at > home on my lapping machine, but I'm missing one piece of equipment. The > lab has this nice little metal block, which on one side has four "walls" > of thin metal pate and screws holding them on; you place the slide on > that side of the holder and then gently screw down the plates until the > slide is held firmly. The plates only rise a very small amount over the > block, so the slide itself sticks out above the plates holding it in. > > I checked with Buehler petrographic products, and they make a $1,200 > version of this with depth-stop features and so forth, but it's not the > same item. Ours is a simple metal block with thin plates on the side > with Phillips-head screws. I've checked with a few other suppliers but > no luck. The current manager of the ag-sci lab (where, for some reason, > the thin section equipment resides) is new and doesn't know where the > holder came from. > > If anyone has info on where to get one of these, please let me know. > > > Thanks, > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Sun Jun 4 07:47:04 2006 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Sun Jun 4 07:47:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] FERSMAN MUSEUM In-Reply-To: <006501c687d5$f9cbe1b0$5153d0c4@privatehome> Message-ID: Hi Horst: Your rockhounds-list request for your elusive Kersman Museum photo recipient reminded me that I haven't properly thanked you and Erica for the wonderful hospitality and guidance through the DTI government office quagmire you gave me while in Pretoria. I have been drastically remiss in expressing my gratitude. I assure you that our day at the diamond mine and at the Transvaal Museum together will be long remembered. I have been extremely busy since I returned from Africa, and have had little time for things mineralogical. I serve on the Regional Staff of the Boy Scouts of America and have been heavily involved these past two months with trips to Jamesville, NJ and Dallas, Texas to assist with the selection process of a contingent of 1,300 American scouts and 800 adult leaders who will attend the 21st World Jamboree in England in 2007. Last week I was in Washington DC attending the National Annual Meeting of the Boy Scouts of America. My wife thinks I should unretire and go back to teaching school full time so she can stop penciling in "Quality Time for the Wife" appointments in my schedule book! Yesterday, I tried to appease her a little by taking her back to a favorite trilobite collecting site that we had first visited together 30 years ago. Unfortunately, as my Lesotho mission director Pastor Malepa says, "We have had the lot of rain lately!" --- the little stream that cut through the Devonian rock layers where I proposed to my wife had turned into a raging torrent! I gained a lot of esteem in the marital relations department yesterday but very little to add to the fossil collections! My friend, what has become of the Lesotho material I left with you for the members of your club. I am anxious to hear if any of it has proved to be worthwhile, and whether I should encourage my Lesotho friends to collect up more agate, jasper and chalcedony for export to South Africa? Some of the same material I have given to a couple of lapiadary friends here is producing some nice cabs and slabs. Yours, Donald L. Tuttle SCOUTGRAPHICS INK USA PO Box 548 Unadilla, NY 13849 >From: "Horst Windisch" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "rockhounds" >Subject: [Rockhounds] FERSMAN MUSEUM >Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2006 14:53:12 +0200 > >Hi List, > >Last year in April/May, Erika and I visited Europe for 5 1/2 weeks, >including four days in Moscow (Russia). Somebody on this list advised me >not to give the Fersman Museum in Moscow a miss. I subsequently visited >this museum, together with my daughter (who was giving English and German >conversation classes to Russian kids and adults at the time, without being >able to speak Russian). She took a photograph of this building, as the >person advising me about the Museum wanted a photograph. > >Unfortunately I no longer have a record of this e-mail. Could this person >please identify himself, in order that the photograph can be sent to him? > >Regards., >Horst > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Sun Jun 4 08:52:49 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Sun Jun 4 08:52:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Swap/Sale References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <001101c687ee$ee6af130$09ada418@feldsparflash> Hi Larry, I am planning to come to Kent for the sale and swap Saturday June 10th. Perhaps if you have room you can bring the large feldspar you had for me. Thanks~! Carolyn Reynard Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society Poughkeepsie, NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 10:43 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Swap/Sale > Rock Swap And Sale > > Saturday, June 10, 2006 > 9am to 4 pm > (Rain Date- Sun. June 11) > > Museum grounds of the Connecticut Antique Machinery Association, 1 mile > north of Kent, CT on Rt.7 > > Tailgate Swapping $5, Selling $10 > > Sponsored by the Danbury Mineralogical Society...mineral museum on premises. > > For info....(860) 354-0296 > > > (This is the 4th year this event has been held, and it has grown every year. > Last year, about 20 people set up tables. > It is held outside in pleasant, shaded grounds and is especially interesting > for Connecticut and area collectors to see what is currently being found in > our area.) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jun 4 09:13:56 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jun 4 09:12:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] need thin section slide holder for polishing References: <448253E2.2080605@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44830669.21F4@Tomaszewski.net> Don, Since your holder is missing a manufacturer's label, it is quite possible it was made by someone with access to a machine shop that was trying to save on the cost of purchasing a slide holder. Kreigh DonH wrote: > > Hi all, > > I am learning to polish probe mounts and thin sections by hand. I don't > have a good touch for getting the final polish. I want to practice at > home on my lapping machine, but I'm missing one piece of equipment. The > lab has this nice little metal block, which on one side has four "walls" > of thin metal pate and screws holding them on; you place the slide on > that side of the holder and then gently screw down the plates until the > slide is held firmly. The plates only rise a very small amount over the > block, so the slide itself sticks out above the plates holding it in. > > I checked with Buehler petrographic products, and they make a $1,200 > version of this with depth-stop features and so forth, but it's not the > same item. Ours is a simple metal block with thin plates on the side > with Phillips-head screws. I've checked with a few other suppliers but > no luck. The current manager of the ag-sci lab (where, for some reason, > the thin section equipment resides) is new and doesn't know where the > holder came from. > > If anyone has info on where to get one of these, please let me know. > > Thanks, > Don From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sun Jun 4 06:07:46 2006 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sun Jun 4 12:21:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Emerald Creek Garnet Dig References: <1f1bc481f1df5a.1f1df5a1f1bc48@shaw.ca><7.0.0.16.2.20060525175332.0269afc8@orerockon.com><001801c6806f$35e5dde0$0400a8c0@Notebook><44768A3E.2050400@verizon.net> <008601c680fb$eacf7950$0400a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <000d01c6880b$fd628d70$1653d0c4@privatehome> Hi John,. Have to contact you via the list, as I do not have your e-mail address. As founder of SAND COLLECTORS INTERNATIONALK (some 20 years ago), I certainly would be interested in obtaining a sample of this garnet sand. Please contact me off-list at horstwindisch@absamail.co.za. Thanks, Horst. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Emerald Creek Garnet Dig > Thanks for the report Don. > > I assume the "fuchsia-colored cafe" to be the Santa Resort. Nice enough > place to have a beer and talk elk hunting, but you'll find better food in > Moscow. > > Julie and I panned a bucket load of small garnet from said stream near > Emerald Creek. A few sand collectors requested samples from me a while > (years?) back and I failed to send them out. Those request reside in the > ether of my now dead computer. So if any list members would like a sample, > please contact me again off-list. > > We've been to Mica Mountain a number of times to collect muscovite books > and small shorl tourmaline. Have yet to find any beryl but it's a great > place to run the dogs. Do you think it's accessible in a 2WD pickup right > now? I know that road is pretty soupy at the best of times but I would > love to drag Julie away from her computer for a day. > > Thanks - John > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DonH" > >> >> Indeed! I was just up that way today, re-taking coordinates for a >> research project > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Jun 5 09:21:19 2006 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Jun 5 09:22:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An interesting mapping program In-Reply-To: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <008e01c688bc$14526090$0600a8c0@okapi> Nice application... It would be good for printing maps before a trip. And when WiFi is everywhere... Well. But of course... You can still get the disk from me ! Handy when you can't connect, eh? Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals Home of MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk http://www.catspaw-minerals.com PS. Thanks for the kind words, Ted! > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Ted Kowalski > Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 8:05 PM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Subject: [Rockhounds] An interesting mapping program > > In browsing through the WNCRocks.com web site I came across a > link to this mapping program. > > http://www.varockhounder.com/maps/index.php?State=Virginia&Sit eName=&Mineral > = > > I love GCB's masmils data but this is intriguing. > > Ted From mineral.maertens at att.net Tue Jun 6 08:03:44 2006 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan) Date: Tue Jun 6 08:03:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suggestions for bull point rock chisel Message-ID: <060620061503.13472.4485995000027DC9000034A021603760219C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> I am searching for a new bull point rock chisel. Guard or no guard, i hit my hands when I get tired (too soon ...) whacking bolders. There seem to be models with wide heads that are better at handling the impact of crack hammers. What brand has wide heads and are they good for cracking rock? Shorter chisels seem to work better for me. They are more stable and bounce less. I have longer chisels for emptying pockets once I get to them. -- Johan Maertens From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Jun 6 12:45:40 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Jun 6 12:45:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fold-up boxes References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> Here's a silly question that has kind of stuck with me for awhile. Like everyone else, I have switched from plastic "Perky" boxes, to white cardboard fold-up ones, mostly due to the cost of plastic any more. But, all of the fold-up types come with a brighter, whiter, shinier side and a duller side, and the box can be folded in either direction. What is the consensus on which side should be the "inside" and which should be the "outside"? Is the shiny side meant to add aesthetics to the specimen display on the inside, or is the matte side considered better as it doesn't reflect light as much? I know this sounds like pretty small potatoes, but it would make me feel better knowing I was doing this the "correct" way. I have seen dealers do it both ways, so not everyone (including me) knows the recommended (?) way. Larry From SHMM at sussexonline.com Tue Jun 6 14:32:45 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Tue Jun 6 14:32:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <060620061503.13472.4485995000027DC9000034A021603760219C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> Message-ID: <000401c689b0$c096de40$df651540@D3JM7W21> Over the weekend I saw the movie "An Inconvenient Truth", a documentary on global warming by Al Gore. I heartily recommend this movie to the members of this list. It's light on politics and heavy on science, and includes numerous aerial photographs, satellite images, and clear presentations of data. It's a professional production from beginning to end -- really, I was impressed, and that's not easy. Regardless of where you stand politically on this topic -- whether you believe that human activity has a lot or very little to do with global warming -- you will find much to interest you here, and a lot of stunning imagery and clear commentary to think about. Rocks, mines, landscapes, it's all in there, a good evening for us rockhounds. Cheers- Earl Verbeek ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jun 6 15:57:17 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jun 6 14:56:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fold-up boxes In-Reply-To: <001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: All the boxes I have lying around are shiny on the outside, Larry. If you fold'm right the inside bottom will be dull... At least, the one in front of me looks like that. Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lawrence Rush Verzonden: dinsdag 6 juni 2006 20:46 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Fold-up boxes Here's a silly question that has kind of stuck with me for awhile. Like everyone else, I have switched from plastic "Perky" boxes, to white cardboard fold-up ones, mostly due to the cost of plastic any more. But, all of the fold-up types come with a brighter, whiter, shinier side and a duller side, and the box can be folded in either direction. What is the consensus on which side should be the "inside" and which should be the "outside"? Is the shiny side meant to add aesthetics to the specimen display on the inside, or is the matte side considered better as it doesn't reflect light as much? I know this sounds like pretty small potatoes, but it would make me feel better knowing I was doing this the "correct" way. I have seen dealers do it both ways, so not everyone (including me) knows the recommended (?) way. Larry _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Jun 6 16:05:01 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Jun 6 15:04:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <000401c689b0$c096de40$df651540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: In Belgium the weather is way to cold for the time of year. The weatherman promised a mild 23? C for the weekend. Two days ago the temperature did not get above 12? C and there was a light frost on the ground at night. Three years ago we were north of 30?C from practically mid May until the end of September. Seems that the "conveyer belt" really IS slowing down. On the up-side of things; receding gletschers in Greenland may expose more of those exquisite fluorescing minerals ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Earl Verbeek Verzonden: dinsdag 6 juni 2006 22:33 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth Over the weekend I saw the movie "An Inconvenient Truth", a documentary on global warming by Al Gore. I heartily recommend this movie to the members of this list. It's light on politics and heavy on science, and includes numerous aerial photographs, satellite images, and clear presentations of data. It's a professional production from beginning to end -- really, I was impressed, and that's not easy. Regardless of where you stand politically on this topic -- whether you believe that human activity has a lot or very little to do with global warming -- you will find much to interest you here, and a lot of stunning imagery and clear commentary to think about. Rocks, mines, landscapes, it's all in there, a good evening for us rockhounds. Cheers- Earl Verbeek ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From SHMM at sussexonline.com Tue Jun 6 15:14:19 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Tue Jun 6 15:14:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c689b6$8f614e90$df651540@D3JM7W21> Yep, that's one of the interesting effects of global warming -- some places get much colder. If the Gulf Stream slows or stops, much of western Europe will have a climate to match that of similar latitudes in inland Canada. Pretty frosty. Summer 2004 was the first time in memory that ALL of the western part of the Taseq slope in the Ilimaussaq complex in Greenland was free of snow. That means it was also the first time in history that collectors with UV lights were poring over the ground there. We had a blast, I'll tell you -- everything lights up. But I keep on forgetting to file a field trip report for the list . . . Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:05 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In Belgium the weather is way too cold for the time of year. The weatherman promised a mild 23? C for the weekend. Two days ago the temperature did not get above 12? C and there was a light frost on the ground at night. Three years ago we were north of 30?C from practically mid May until the end of September. Seems that the "conveyer belt" really IS slowing down. On the up-side of things; receding gletschers in Greenland may expose more of those exquisite fluorescing minerals ;-))) Cheers Axel From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jun 6 15:25:30 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jun 6 15:25:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <000501c689b6$8f614e90$df651540@D3JM7W21> References: <000501c689b6$8f614e90$df651540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: Sorry to disagree, that film has 100% politics and 0% science and I don't think we want to start a AGW flamewar. You live right there in Europe and where the Swiss glaciers have retreated they've found Roman ruins. That is from the Roman Warm period around 100 BC. And also during the medieval Warm period which ran from 1000-1300 AD they were growing grape vines in England and Greenland had active farms. When they can explain all that then they will have science on their side. BK On 6/6/06, Earl Verbeek wrote: > > Yep, that's one of the interesting effects of global warming -- some > places > get much colder. If the Gulf Stream slows or stops, much of western > Europe > will have a climate to match that of similar latitudes in inland Canada. > Pretty frosty. > > Summer 2004 was the first time in memory that ALL of the western part of > the > Taseq slope in the Ilimaussaq complex in Greenland was free of snow. That > means it was also the first time in history that collectors with UV lights > were poring over the ground there. We had a blast, I'll tell you -- > everything lights up. But I keep on forgetting to file a field trip > report > for the list . . . > > Cheers- Earl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:05 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > > In Belgium the weather is way too cold for the time of year. > The weatherman promised a mild 23? C for the weekend. Two days ago the > temperature did not get above 12? C and there was a light frost on the > ground at night. Three years ago we were north of 30?C from practically > mid > May until the end of September. Seems that the "conveyer belt" really IS > slowing down. > On the up-side of things; receding gletschers in Greenland may expose more > of those exquisite fluorescing minerals ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Jun 6 15:29:34 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Jun 6 15:29:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fold-up boxes References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush> <001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <004d01c689b8$b09f8570$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I do it shiny-side out. The boxes fold easier in that direction. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 3:45 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fold-up boxes > Here's a silly question that has kind of stuck with me for awhile. Like > everyone else, I have switched from plastic "Perky" boxes, to white > cardboard fold-up ones, mostly due to the cost of plastic any more. But, > all of the fold-up types come with a brighter, whiter, shinier side and a > duller side, and the box can be folded in either direction. What is the > consensus on which side should be the "inside" and which should be the > "outside"? Is the shiny side meant to add aesthetics to the specimen > display on the inside, or is the matte side considered better as it > doesn't reflect light as much? > > I know this sounds like pretty small potatoes, but it would make me feel > better knowing I was doing this the "correct" way. I have seen dealers do > it both ways, so not everyone (including me) knows the recommended (?) > way. > > Larry > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Jun 6 15:29:57 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Jun 6 15:29:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth Message-ID: Hey Axel! It is not cool here, 90?F+ every day lately on the northern coast of the Gulf of Mexico. 70?F+ at night. And a high humidity drought to go along with it. So far the 3rd driest spring since records have been kept. And get this: a recent report said it may be hotter due to CLEANER AIR! That adds to the pot for cookin' up hurricanes. Shining flourescents under the receding gletschers sure sounds fun! Glenn > From: axel.emmermann@pandora.be> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 01:05:01 +0200> > In Belgium the weather is way to cold for the time of year.> The weatherman promised a mild 23? C for the weekend. Two days ago the> temperature did not get above 12? C and there was a light frost on the> ground at night. Three years ago we were north of 30?C from practically mid> May until the end of September. Seems that the "conveyer belt" really IS> slowing down.> On the up-side of things; receding gletschers in Greenland may expose more> of those exquisite fluorescing minerals ;-)))> > Cheers> > Axel> > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Earl Verbeek> Verzonden: dinsdag 6 juni 2006 22:33> Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem> collectors'> Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth> > > > Over the weekend I saw the movie "An Inconvenient Truth", a documentary on> global warming by Al Gore. I heartily recommend this movie to the members> of this list. It's light on politics and heavy on science, and includes> numerous aerial photographs, satellite images, and clear presentations of> data. It's a professional production from beginning to end -- really, I was> impressed, and that's not easy. Regardless of where you stand politically> on this topic -- whether you believe that human activity has a lot or very> little to do with global warming -- you will find much to interest you here,> and a lot of stunning imagery and clear commentary to think about. Rocks,> mines, landscapes, it's all in there, a good evening for us rockhounds.> > Cheers- Earl Verbeek> > -----------------------------------> Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist> Sterling Hill Mining Museum> 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439> 973-209-7212> shmm@sussexonline.com> > > > > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html> > > > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Search on the go: Try Windows Live(tm) Search for Mobile beta http://www1.imagine-msn.com/minisites/mobile/Default.aspx?locale=en-us --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jun 6 15:30:46 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jun 6 15:30:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <000501c689b6$8f614e90$df651540@D3JM7W21> References: <000501c689b6$8f614e90$df651540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: If GW mean colder temps for Europe how do explain the mild climate experienced during the Medieval Warm Period and the Roman Warm period? The Romans had vast wheat farms in north Africa for example. BK On 6/6/06, Earl Verbeek wrote: > > Yep, that's one of the interesting effects of global warming -- some > places > get much colder. If the Gulf Stream slows or stops, much of western > Europe > will have a climate to match that of similar latitudes in inland Canada. > Pretty frosty. > > Summer 2004 was the first time in memory that ALL of the western part of > the > Taseq slope in the Ilimaussaq complex in Greenland was free of snow. That > means it was also the first time in history that collectors with UV lights > were poring over the ground there. We had a blast, I'll tell you -- > everything lights up. But I keep on forgetting to file a field trip > report > for the list . . . > > Cheers- Earl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:05 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > > In Belgium the weather is way too cold for the time of year. > The weatherman promised a mild 23? C for the weekend. Two days ago the > temperature did not get above 12? C and there was a light frost on the > ground at night. Three years ago we were north of 30?C from practically > mid > May until the end of September. Seems that the "conveyer belt" really IS > slowing down. > On the up-side of things; receding gletschers in Greenland may expose more > of those exquisite fluorescing minerals ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Jun 6 15:34:44 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Jun 6 15:34:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fold-up boxes Message-ID: Tomayto - tomahto. Glenn > From: axel.emmermann@pandora.be> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fold-up boxes> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 00:57:17 +0200> > All the boxes I have lying around are shiny on the outside, Larry.> > If you fold'm right the inside bottom will be dull... At least, the one in> front of me looks like that.> > Axel> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lawrence Rush> Verzonden: dinsdag 6 juni 2006 20:46> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors> Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Fold-up boxes> > > Here's a silly question that has kind of stuck with me for awhile. Like> everyone else, I have switched from plastic "Perky" boxes, to white> cardboard fold-up ones, mostly due to the cost of plastic any more. But, all> of the fold-up types come with a brighter, whiter, shinier side and a duller> side, and the box can be folded in either direction. What is the consensus> on which side should be the "inside" and which should be the "outside"? Is> the shiny side meant to add aesthetics to the specimen display on the> inside, or is the matte side considered better as it doesn't reflect light> as much?> > I know this sounds like pretty small potatoes, but it would make me feel> better knowing I was doing this the "correct" way. I have seen dealers do it> both ways, so not everyone (including me) knows the recommended (?) way.> > Larry> > _________________________________________________________________ Search on the go: Try Windows Live(tm) Search for Mobile beta http://www1.imagine-msn.com/minisites/mobile/Default.aspx?locale=en-us --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jun 6 17:03:37 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jun 6 17:03:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth Message-ID: <060720060003.5682.448617D800095AD100001632216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> You've gotta watch it, Earl, touchin' on these touchy topics, indeed, we can only hope we in Rockhounds will all keep talking to each other if we try to discuss anything remotely connected to "GW". Personally, I get my perspective on the Al Gore movie (not having seen it) by reading the review posted online in The Onion, which says, Critics Blast Al Gore's Documentary As 'Realistic' There you go, that says it all. : ) And a P.S. to Axel (total innocuous spin-off, that goodness), I was amused to read your use of "Gletscher" in your post, because that's not a word we ever use in the U.S. (to my knowledge). The reason it's in my vocabulary at all, and I remember this very well, was back at Penn State or maybe at the Carnegie Institution, going through a file of old reprints, they had a copy of one by Peter J. Wylie, a famous experimental petrologist (worked out phase equilibrium diagrams for many minerals, etc.), but I think this one was one of his first scientific publications, and I will always remember the exact title of it (it had some interesting pictures, too), "A Water-spout on the Britannia Gletscher" To which my first reaction was, "What the heck is a gletscher". But it was obvious from the article & pictures that it's a glacier. Gletscher is just the German word for glacier, but I never did quite figure out why he used it in an English publication, except I've always assumed that perhaps the Brits call a glacier a gletscher; or else that's just the official name of this particular glacier (go figure). I just looked gletscher up on dictionary.com; nary a listing for it there. When I searched on Google, I see a lot of German articles listed, and I do see that one by Peter Wylie, it's from 1965, in the Journal of Geology. The Britannia Gletscher is in northeast Greenland, BTW. And the "water-spout" was like a spring of water, fountaining out of the glacier where a subglacial meltwater stream flowed to the surface under pressure. Pete Cheers to all and stay warm. -------------- Original message from "Earl Verbeek" : -------------- > Yep, that's one of the interesting effects of global warming -- some places > get much colder. If the Gulf Stream slows or stops, much of western Europe > will have a climate to match that of similar latitudes in inland Canada. > Pretty frosty. > > Summer 2004 was the first time in memory that ALL of the western part of the > Taseq slope in the Ilimaussaq complex in Greenland was free of snow. That > means it was also the first time in history that collectors with UV lights > were poring over the ground there. We had a blast, I'll tell you -- > everything lights up. But I keep on forgetting to file a field trip report > for the list . . . > > Cheers- Earl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:05 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > > In Belgium the weather is way too cold for the time of year. > The weatherman promised a mild 23? C for the weekend. Two days ago the > temperature did not get above 12? C and there was a light frost on the > ground at night. Three years ago we were north of 30?C from practically mid > May until the end of September. Seems that the "conveyer belt" really IS > slowing down. > On the up-side of things; receding gletschers in Greenland may expose more > of those exquisite fluorescing minerals ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Jun 6 19:01:20 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Jun 6 19:01:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth References: <000501c689b6$8f614e90$df651540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <001801c689d6$462a9400$c1f9f604@TheBlackAdder> I agree with Bryan, it is 100% politics and zero science. The whole of climatology has been politicised by this issue, which is to the shame of both science and the political process. Scientists who want to keep the pipeline of government grant funding open, dare not expess any skepticism of the prevailing orthodoxy; that of an anthropogenic cause for climate change. The people of the medieval warm period experienced average temperatures several degrees warmer than at present with the Vikings growing wheat and wine grapes in Greenland. When the climate became colder around 1300, the Vikings starved or left Greenland. There is archaeologic evidence of gross nutritional stress to those who were buried in Greenland. Erich Kern ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth Sorry to disagree, that film has 100% politics and 0% science and I don't think we want to start a AGW flamewar. You live right there in Europe and where the Swiss glaciers have retreated they've found Roman ruins. That is from the Roman Warm period around 100 BC. And also during the medieval Warm period which ran from 1000-1300 AD they were growing grape vines in England and Greenland had active farms. When they can explain all that then they will have science on their side. BK On 6/6/06, Earl Verbeek wrote: > > Yep, that's one of the interesting effects of global warming -- some > places > get much colder. If the Gulf Stream slows or stops, much of western > Europe > will have a climate to match that of similar latitudes in inland Canada. > Pretty frosty. > > Summer 2004 was the first time in memory that ALL of the western part of > the > Taseq slope in the Ilimaussaq complex in Greenland was free of snow. That > means it was also the first time in history that collectors with UV lights > were poring over the ground there. We had a blast, I'll tell you -- > everything lights up. But I keep on forgetting to file a field trip > report > for the list . . . > > Cheers- Earl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:05 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > > In Belgium the weather is way too cold for the time of year. > The weatherman promised a mild 23? C for the weekend. Two days ago the > temperature did not get above 12? C and there was a light frost on the > ground at night. Three years ago we were north of 30?C from practically > mid > May until the end of September. Seems that the "conveyer belt" really IS > slowing down. > On the up-side of things; receding gletschers in Greenland may expose more > of those exquisite fluorescing minerals ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From ki3u at hotmail.com Tue Jun 6 19:42:53 2006 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Tue Jun 6 19:43:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <001801c689d6$462a9400$c1f9f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: I seem to be missing something here, and I have not seen the Al Gore film, although I would like to get around to it. But, is it just me, or is there some confusion between "GW" as a geo-thermodynamic concept, and a political concept? I don't think the medieval warm up period was caused by man. But it warmed up for a while. It does seem also to be warming up lately, regardless of the cause. Global warming back then, and global warming, quite apparently, now. Is there a fundamental disagreement about that? Berj >From: "Erich Kern" Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for >rock and gem collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth >Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:01:20 -0700 > > > >I agree with Bryan, it is 100% politics and zero science. The whole of >climatology has been >politicised by this issue, which is to the shame of both science and the >political process. >Scientists who want to keep the pipeline of government grant funding open, >dare not expess any >skepticism of the prevailing orthodoxy; that of an anthropogenic cause for >climate change. > >The people of the medieval warm period experienced average temperatures >several degrees warmer >than at present with the Vikings growing wheat and wine grapes in >Greenland. When the climate >became colder around 1300, the Vikings starved or left Greenland. There is >archaeologic evidence >of gross nutritional stress to those who were buried in Greenland. > >Erich Kern > > > From mark.stanley at sympatico.ca Tue Jun 6 19:45:34 2006 From: mark.stanley at sympatico.ca (Mark Stanley) Date: Tue Jun 6 19:48:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fold-up boxes References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1><002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush> <001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <007c01c689dc$c7c7ac40$6aece2d1@b1quvu32> I prefer fold up boxes with the smooth shiny side up because they are easier to keep clean. When storing specimens that have a limonite matrix, the box soon gets a red-brown dust in it. If the box has the dull side against the specimen, it is very difficult to clean. Mark Stanley Ontario ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 3:45 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fold-up boxes > Here's a silly question that has kind of stuck with me for awhile. Like > everyone else, I have switched from plastic "Perky" boxes, to white > cardboard fold-up ones, mostly due to the cost of plastic any more. But, all > of the fold-up types come with a brighter, whiter, shinier side and a duller > side, and the box can be folded in either direction. What is the consensus > on which side should be the "inside" and which should be the "outside"? Is > the shiny side meant to add aesthetics to the specimen display on the > inside, or is the matte side considered better as it doesn't reflect light > as much? > > I know this sounds like pretty small potatoes, but it would make me feel > better knowing I was doing this the "correct" way. I have seen dealers do it > both ways, so not everyone (including me) knows the recommended (?) way. > > Larry > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jun 6 20:46:45 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jun 6 20:46:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: References: <001801c689d6$462a9400$c1f9f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: I don't think many people deny that there may be GW: Global Warming. But the controversy comes about when they add the "A" to that to make AGW: Anthropogenic Global Warming. There is little real proof that human activity is causing temperature increases. If there is going to be GW then maybe we should take actions to prepare for whatever the effects will be. But since we seem to have come thru the effects of the MWP (Medieval Warm Period) and the Roman Warm Period with no ill effects them I suspect we will do the same if we do have another warm period. One example of the hysteria is the claims that Polar Bears will become extinct, well they survived the MWP apparently. The problem with AGW is that there is little data to support it, we only began to generate hard temperature records back around 1870 (IIRC) when the thermometer came into common use. That also happens to be the end of the LIE (Little Ice Age) when global temps were depressed for several hundred years. Any data before that is derived from temperature proxies (tree ring data and such) and the AGW people engage in considerable "cherry picking" (a form of scientific skullduggery where you pick data that supports your hypothesis and discard any that doesn't) on that proxy data. Just remember that these same people were predicting a new ice age back in the 1970's. BK On 6/6/06, Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > I seem to be missing something here, and I have not seen the Al Gore film, > although I would like to get around to it. > > But, is it just me, or is there some confusion between "GW" as a > geo-thermodynamic concept, and a political concept? I don't think the > medieval warm up period was caused by man. But it warmed up for a while. > It > does seem also to be warming up lately, regardless of the cause. Global > warming back then, and global warming, quite apparently, now. Is there a > fundamental disagreement about that? > > Berj > > > >From: "Erich Kern" Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > >rock and gem collectors" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > >Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:01:20 -0700 > > > > > > > >I agree with Bryan, it is 100% politics and zero science. The whole of > >climatology has been > >politicised by this issue, which is to the shame of both science and the > >political process. > >Scientists who want to keep the pipeline of government grant funding > open, > >dare not expess any > >skepticism of the prevailing orthodoxy; that of an anthropogenic cause > for > >climate change. > > > >The people of the medieval warm period experienced average temperatures > >several degrees warmer > >than at present with the Vikings growing wheat and wine grapes in > >Greenland. When the climate > >became colder around 1300, the Vikings starved or left Greenland. There > is > >archaeologic evidence > >of gross nutritional stress to those who were buried in Greenland. > > > >Erich Kern > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From turnea55 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 6 20:52:56 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Tue Jun 6 20:53:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <001801c689d6$462a9400$c1f9f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: Exactly, well put. Recently there was a topic message on the BBC website about the global warming "phonomenon." As is typical with the comments on this site, most people blamed the US, George Bush, the western world, over population, etc, etc, etc for causing this "problem." Here is the post I wrote and got it posted on their site: 65 Million Years ago there were no glaciers, sea level was higher, and the earth was much much warmer than today. Let me guess, this must have been due to all those dinosaurs driving those gas guzzling SUV's and that evil Bush guy for not signing "Kyoto." Put things in perspective, 1, 10, or even 100 year trends are insignificant and not relevant compared with geological time. The absolute truth is that we are still in an Ice Age. Anytime there are permanent continental glaciers indicates an ice age. It is very possible that we are coming out of this ice age and are warming up. However, this exact same scenario occurred several times the past 20,000 years, and in several cases we actually began to cool again creating what is known as "mini Ice Ages." Looking at temperature indicators throughout geologic time, we are currently almost at the midpoint of all the charts. Although it may have been the "hottest month on record" somewhere, very precise and verified records have been kept for maybe 50-70 years at best. This represents about 0.0000002% of history (since land masses on earth were established). Here's another good one. Many global warming alarmists talk about the North Pole melting and sea level going up like crazy. However, since ice is less dense than water, if the North Pole melted, overall sea level would decrease. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA >From: "Erich Kern" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth >Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:01:20 -0700 > > > >I agree with Bryan, it is 100% politics and zero science. The whole of >climatology has been >politicised by this issue, which is to the shame of both science and the >political process. >Scientists who want to keep the pipeline of government grant funding open, >dare not expess any >skepticism of the prevailing orthodoxy; that of an anthropogenic cause for >climate change. > >The people of the medieval warm period experienced average temperatures >several degrees warmer >than at present with the Vikings growing wheat and wine grapes in >Greenland. When the climate >became colder around 1300, the Vikings starved or left Greenland. There is >archaeologic evidence >of gross nutritional stress to those who were buried in Greenland. > >Erich Kern > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "J Bryan Kramer" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 3:25 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > > >Sorry to disagree, that film has 100% politics and 0% science and I don't >think we want to start a AGW flamewar. You live right there in Europe and >where the Swiss glaciers have retreated they've found Roman ruins. That is >from the Roman Warm period around 100 BC. And also during the medieval Warm >period which ran from 1000-1300 AD they were growing grape vines in >England >and Greenland had active farms. When they can explain all that then they >will have science on their side. > >BK > > >On 6/6/06, Earl Verbeek wrote: > > > > Yep, that's one of the interesting effects of global warming -- some > > places > > get much colder. If the Gulf Stream slows or stops, much of western > > Europe > > will have a climate to match that of similar latitudes in inland Canada. > > Pretty frosty. > > > > Summer 2004 was the first time in memory that ALL of the western part of > > the > > Taseq slope in the Ilimaussaq complex in Greenland was free of snow. >That > > means it was also the first time in history that collectors with UV >lights > > were poring over the ground there. We had a blast, I'll tell you -- > > everything lights up. But I keep on forgetting to file a field trip > > report > > for the list . . . > > > > Cheers- Earl > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel >Emmermann > > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:05 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > > > > In Belgium the weather is way too cold for the time of year. > > The weatherman promised a mild 23? C for the weekend. Two days ago the > > temperature did not get above 12? C and there was a light frost on the > > ground at night. Three years ago we were north of 30?C from practically > > mid > > May until the end of September. Seems that the "conveyer belt" really IS > > slowing down. > > On the up-side of things; receding gletschers in Greenland may expose >more > > of those exquisite fluorescing minerals ;-))) > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Jun 6 20:50:47 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Tue Jun 6 20:53:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1><002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush><001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> <007c01c689dc$c7c7ac40$6aece2d1@b1quvu32> Message-ID: <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> After a recent discussion on gem differentiation, I waited a minute before bringing this up, but I *am* curious. When we find a mineral in crystal form that we don't recognize, we call it sparkley-ite. I tried to call it "Siebelite" but it just didn't stick for most things, so we are stuck with sparkley-ite.We were fortunate to learn about rockhounding near Portland, Oregon, so there were plenty of zeolites that received this name before we learned to identify them. I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? Julie P.S. As we learned, most of our sparkleyite minerals were identified, so I don't think we actually HAVE any sparkley-ite right now, but I'm looking forward to the next batch! From folmstead at rcn.com Tue Jun 6 21:06:37 2006 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Tue Jun 6 21:07:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1><002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush><001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> <007c01c689dc$c7c7ac40$6aece2d1@b1quvu32> <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <448650CD.4060906@rcn.com> LEAVERITE - common usage GAWKITE (sp) - from a friend - i.e., "GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT IS IS" __..--..__..--..__..--..__ Julie Siebel wrote: > After a recent discussion on gem differentiation, I waited a minute > before bringing this up, but I *am* curious. > > When we find a mineral in crystal form that we don't recognize, we > call it sparkley-ite. I tried to call it "Siebelite" but it just > didn't stick for most things, so we are stuck with sparkley-ite.We > were fortunate to learn about rockhounding near Portland, Oregon, so > there were plenty of zeolites that received this name before we > learned to identify them. > > I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown > minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? > > Julie > > P.S. As we learned, most of our sparkleyite minerals were identified, > so I don't think we actually HAVE any sparkley-ite right now, but I'm > looking forward to the next batch! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Jun 6 21:09:22 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jun 6 21:09:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush> <001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> <007c01c689dc$c7c7ac40$6aece2d1@b1quvu32> <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060606180621.03e0e018@mail.hawaiiantel.net> We use "dunnoite" as in don't-know-ite. Aloha, Kitty At 05:50 PM 6/6/2006, you wrote: >I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown >minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? > >Julie From jonee at epix.net Tue Jun 6 21:15:01 2006 From: jonee at epix.net (jonee@epix.net) Date: Tue Jun 6 21:15:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names Message-ID: <200606070415.k574F1TP025614@soy.epix.net> > I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? > Julie I have 3 or so which come to mind but am always curious about trivia like this. The classic identification frequently given novices who believe every rock is identifible and to be lugged home to show Mamma-- Who also believe field trip leaders of course know all 4500+ minerals by heart and on sight... We introduce them to: Leaverrite: as in leave er right where it lays. The melange of rock flour, shards and broken crystals can be called smasherite or smasherleft or smasherdownthemiddle for those with more energy than paitence in exploiting a pocket. Finally, the classic reference to suspected meteorites which aren't...meteorwrong. Elton From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Jun 6 21:17:38 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Jun 6 21:16:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1><002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush><001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> <007c01c689dc$c7c7ac40$6aece2d1@b1quvu32> <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <44865362.1090804@verizon.net> Julie Siebel wrote: > I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown > minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? I do know one thing: when I first started collecting, I thought "leaverite" was a real mineral because people kept saying it. DD From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Tue Jun 6 21:30:27 2006 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Tue Jun 6 21:30:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names Message-ID: Julie: As a part of an undergrad internship I was assigned a job as Assistant to the Assistant Curator in the college's natural history museum. One of my jobs was to prepare wood mounting blocks and labels for the mineral exhibits. When a bottle of epoxy glue fell from a shelf and shattered on the floor, my boss picked up a handful of the golden yellow glue shards and had me prepare a label that read: Goshdurnite, 3M District, Minnesota. These "crystals" were mounted on a block and added to the display. When I returned for my college reunion 30 years later, Goshdurnite was still on display there among the other silicates......... Donald L. Tuttle SCOUTGRAPHICS INK USA PO Box 548 Unadilla, NY 13849 >From: "Julie Siebel" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names >Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 20:50:47 -0700 > >After a recent discussion on gem differentiation, I waited a minute before >bringing this up, but I *am* curious. > >When we find a mineral in crystal form that we don't recognize, we call it >sparkley-ite. I tried to call it "Siebelite" but it just didn't stick for >most things, so we are stuck with sparkley-ite.We were fortunate to learn >about rockhounding near Portland, Oregon, so there were plenty of zeolites >that received this name before we learned to identify them. > >I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown >minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? > >Julie > >P.S. As we learned, most of our sparkleyite minerals were identified, so I >don't think we actually HAVE any sparkley-ite right now, but I'm looking >forward to the next batch! > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Jun 6 22:51:07 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Jun 6 22:51:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gumballite / Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1><002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush><001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> <007c01c689dc$c7c7ac40$6aece2d1@b1quvu32><002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> <448650CD.4060906@rcn.com> Message-ID: <000601c689f6$618dc940$8efff604@TheBlackAdder> Howabout 'Gumballite' for spheroid minerals? I "made" a specimen using an actual gumball and glued it into a cavity which I sometimes take to local shows with the label; "Gumballite from the remote Gumbystan Valley....rare, not for sale" Erich Kern ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frederick Olmstead" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names LEAVERITE - common usage GAWKITE (sp) - from a friend - i.e., "GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT IS IS" __..--..__..--..__..--..__ Julie Siebel wrote: > After a recent discussion on gem differentiation, I waited a minute > before bringing this up, but I *am* curious. > > When we find a mineral in crystal form that we don't recognize, we > call it sparkley-ite. I tried to call it "Siebelite" but it just > didn't stick for most things, so we are stuck with sparkley-ite.We > were fortunate to learn about rockhounding near Portland, Oregon, so > there were plenty of zeolites that received this name before we > learned to identify them. > > I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown > minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? > > Julie > > P.S. As we learned, most of our sparkleyite minerals were identified, > so I don't think we actually HAVE any sparkley-ite right now, but I'm > looking forward to the next batch! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From geenet2 at mchsi.com Tue Jun 6 23:38:21 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Tue Jun 6 23:38:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: Message-ID: <001f01c689fc$f81d1fe0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> We've coined a word for the black tar counterpart to "concretions" as in cement mixed with gravel usually found along the roadside. We call them "asphaltions" when you find them along a black top road. We also pick up a lot of "shuddalefterite" specimens. There's also "beatsmeite" and "damifinoite" Jeanette From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Jun 7 01:41:31 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Wed Jun 7 01:41:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suggestions for bull point rock chisel In-Reply-To: <060620061503.13472.4485995000027DC9000034A021603760219C020A9B9D0A0E03D2040E9D0A020703@att.net> Message-ID: <009e01c68a0d$f1e36f60$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Johan: I believe Kreigh originally supplied the link to this company. http://trowandholden.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=2553405.1780*sI4pd0 &product=cat1 (cut and paste the link or go to the base website http://trowandholden.com and click your way into the chisel section of the online catalog) This doesn't help your hand but... When I started taking my nephews and sons rock hunting a few years ago, fingers and hands became very endangered even with those supposedly protective broad plastic chisel sleeves. We got around this by making some chisel holders that function as extensions of your hand. All it takes is a wooden dowel, rubber hose with an inside diameter that matches the outside dowel diameter and some hose clamps. Cut the dowel to length, push one end of the hose onto the dowel and secure with a hose clamp (about 3", 75mm from the end). Wrap the hose around the chisel. I try for three wraps and bring the hose end back to the dowel. Secure the hose end to the dowel with another hose clamp. This extension method amplifies chisel bounce, but eliminates smacked knuckles. If you've got someone who is swinging a sledge; using a three foot dowel greatly enhances safety of your digits and even allows you to keep your legs and feet out of danger. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Johan Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:04 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Suggestions for bull point rock chisel I am searching for a new bull point rock chisel. Guard or no guard, i hit my hands when I get tired (too soon ...) whacking bolders. There seem to be models with wide heads that are better at handling the impact of crack hammers. What brand has wide heads and are they good for cracking rock? Shorter chisels seem to work better for me. They are more stable and bounce less. I have longer chisels for emptying pockets once I get to them. -- Johan Maertens _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Jun 7 04:12:31 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Jun 7 04:12:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush> <001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> <007c01c689dc$c7c7ac40$6aece2d1@b1quvu32> <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <123201c68a23$45542a30$c0089444@remains> wutthuh****isthatite..... michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:50 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names > After a recent discussion on gem differentiation, I waited a minute before > bringing this up, but I *am* curious. > > When we find a mineral in crystal form that we don't recognize, we call it > sparkley-ite. I tried to call it "Siebelite" but it just didn't stick for > most things, so we are stuck with sparkley-ite.We were fortunate to learn > about rockhounding near Portland, Oregon, so there were plenty of zeolites > that received this name before we learned to identify them. > > I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown > minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? > > Julie > > P.S. As we learned, most of our sparkleyite minerals were identified, so I > don't think we actually HAVE any sparkley-ite right now, but I'm looking > forward to the next batch! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jr50wv at yahoo.com Wed Jun 7 04:37:58 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Wed Jun 7 04:38:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clement Museum show?? Message-ID: <20060607113758.5989.qmail@web61115.mail.yahoo.com> Hi all: Alan, how did the Clement Museum weekend show turn out? Sorry I couldn't be there, but that's a killer long drive drive for me. I hope the turnout was good and fun was had by all. And funds for the Museum, too! JR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Wed Jun 7 04:39:09 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Wed Jun 7 04:39:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth References: <001801c689d6$462a9400$c1f9f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <002c01c68a26$fd9db7c0$6400a8c0@hppav> A few months bac, my paleo club had a presentation by Professor Robert Giegengack, (a Davidson Kennedy Professor Department of Earth and Environmental Science at the University of Pennsylvania.). on "The Science and Policy of Climate Change" http://groups.msn.com/DinosaurandFossilDigs/dvpsnews.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=513&LastModified=4675559010597938101 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/earth/giegenga.html He presented the most comprehensive analysis of global climate change I had ever seen, from an ancademic who was presenting the facts and the gaps on this subject. His observations and conclusions can be summarized with a few comments: 1- There appears to be a correlation between human activity and climate since the middle ages when large tracts of land were turned into farm land, potentially changing the amount of incident energy reflected back to outer space. This is not a new phenomena, although the rate has increased in the last 150 years. This also shows that a number of human influenced factors can affect local and global climates, not just CO2. 2- The data from isotope analysis in ice borings and geological/paleontological evidence suggest the earth on the whole is about as cool as it has ever been, without freezing over large parts of its surface. There certainly have been much hotter periods in earth's history when life thrived. 3- The mechanism for GW as it involves polyatomic gas molecules, including CO2, is correct but the models do not close. In other words it is clear that these molecules absorb reflected energy from the earth's surface and re-emit it as heat. But , the CO2 balance is not complete and the trend is not all due to CO2. 4- There is a huge anmount of variability in the data due to the precession of earths axis, sunspot activity and other factors that also have huge impacts for extended periods. 5- Considering that CO2 is one likely cause and that our resources are limited, conservation is something we should pursue, but this is not the crisis the press and politicians would have you believe. 6- The degree of concern is inversely proptional to the length of your climatological perspective. In other words paleoclimatologists are the least concerned that a disaster of biblical proportions is looming. The most concerned are meteorologists and politicians To say the least it was a fascinating presentation, filled with data and real scientific analysis, and the first one that just presented the info with a scientific and geological perspective. Gene Hartstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Wed Jun 7 04:43:27 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Wed Jun 7 04:43:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: <200606070415.k574F1TP025614@soy.epix.net> Message-ID: <004c01c68a27$975deab0$6400a8c0@hppav> My favorite has always been Yechinoids. For the fossil collector these are fossil echinoids that have weathered just a little too long. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gemcollectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names >> I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown >> minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? >> Julie > > I have 3 or so which come to mind but am always curious about trivia like > this. > > The classic identification frequently given novices who believe every rock > is identifible and to be lugged home to show Mamma-- Who also believe > field trip leaders of course know all 4500+ minerals by heart and on > sight... We introduce them to: Leaverrite: as in leave er right where it > lays. > > The melange of rock flour, shards and broken crystals can be called > smasherite or smasherleft or smasherdownthemiddle for those with more > energy than paitence in exploiting a pocket. > > Finally, the classic reference to suspected meteorites which > aren't...meteorwrong. > > Elton > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From gene at fossilnut.com Wed Jun 7 04:48:00 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Wed Jun 7 04:48:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: Message-ID: <005601c68a28$3a1530b0$6400a8c0@hppav> At a mineral show a few years back several of the dealers had gone to dinner. One of them wanted broccoli with his meal but the restaurant would not allow a substitution for the vegetable that came with the particular meal. This dealer made quite a fuss. The next morning, in his case was a new fold up mineral box with a neat label "Broccolite" and a piece of raw broccoli in it. Gene Hartstein From libawc at emory.edu Wed Jun 7 04:58:35 2006 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita D. Westlake) Date: Wed Jun 7 04:58:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <005601c68a28$3a1530b0$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: <007001c68a29$b74a7440$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> In setting up our annual rock and gem show, we try to line up volunteers to fill exhibit cases with specimens. This particular year, one of the volunteers did not come through as promised, and consequently, we had an empty display case. One of our members had the brilliant idea to put a few labels only (no specimens) in the case: "Invisiblite" and "Invisiblite" on matrix and "Invisiblite" cluster It was a big success, and we always have that to fall back on should we come up empty-handed again! Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of EUGENE HARTSTEIN Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 6:48 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names At a mineral show a few years back several of the dealers had gone to dinner. One of them wanted broccoli with his meal but the restaurant would not allow a substitution for the vegetable that came with the particular meal. This dealer made quite a fuss. The next morning, in his case was a new fold up mineral box with a neat label "Broccolite" and a piece of raw broccoli in it. Gene Hartstein _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jun 7 06:07:36 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jun 7 06:07:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <002c01c68a26$fd9db7c0$6400a8c0@hppav> References: <001801c689d6$462a9400$c1f9f604@TheBlackAdder> <002c01c68a26$fd9db7c0$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: That sounds like a reasonable view of the matter. We just don't have enough data to begin to understand what is going on in this very complex climate system. The role of water vapor is surprisingly not well understood, they haven't even been able to come up with good absorption spectra for it in the atmosphere yet. But water is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2. I recall one quote: "If you look at the top four greenhouse gasses, water is number 1, 2 and 3 with CO2 being number 4". The point being that water is vastly more important than CO2. Another silly season claim is the hurricane one, the claim the last hurricane season was the 'most active' ever. Well we didn't have good weather satellite coverage of the Atlantic until the 1970's. Who knows what the actual number of hurricanes was back in 1750 or even 1850. As you point out these people have very short range historical vision. BK On 6/7/06, EUGENE HARTSTEIN wrote: > > A few months bac, my paleo club had a presentation by Professor Robert > Giegengack, (a Davidson Kennedy Professor Department of Earth and > Environmental Science at the University of Pennsylvania.). on "The Science > and Policy of Climate Change" > > > http://groups.msn.com/DinosaurandFossilDigs/dvpsnews.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=513&LastModified=4675559010597938101 > > http://www.sas.upenn.edu/earth/giegenga.html > > He presented the most comprehensive analysis of global climate change I > had ever seen, from an ancademic who was presenting the facts and the gaps > on this subject. His observations and conclusions can be summarized with a > few comments: > > 1- There appears to be a correlation between human activity and climate > since the middle ages when large tracts of land were turned into farm land, > potentially changing the amount of incident energy reflected back to outer > space. This is not a new phenomena, although the rate has increased in the > last 150 years. This also shows that a number of human influenced factors > can affect local and global climates, not just CO2. > > 2- The data from isotope analysis in ice borings and > geological/paleontological evidence suggest the earth on the whole is about > as cool as it has ever been, without freezing over large parts of its > surface. There certainly have been much hotter periods in earth's history > when life thrived. > > 3- The mechanism for GW as it involves polyatomic gas molecules, including > CO2, is correct but the models do not close. In other words it is clear that > these molecules absorb reflected energy from the earth's surface and re-emit > it as heat. But , the CO2 balance is not complete and the trend is not all > due to CO2. > > 4- There is a huge anmount of variability in the data due to the > precession of earths axis, sunspot activity and other factors that also have > huge impacts for extended periods. > > 5- Considering that CO2 is one likely cause and that our resources are > limited, conservation is something we should pursue, but this is not the > crisis the press and politicians would have you believe. > > 6- The degree of concern is inversely proptional to the length of your > climatological perspective. In other words paleoclimatologists are the least > concerned that a disaster of biblical proportions is looming. The most > concerned are meteorologists and politicians > > To say the least it was a fascinating presentation, filled with data and > real scientific analysis, and the first one that just presented the info > with a scientific and geological perspective. > > Gene Hartstein > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Wed Jun 7 06:50:22 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Wed Jun 7 06:50:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1><002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush><001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush><007c01c689dc$c7c7ac40$6aece2d1@b1quvu32> <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <001c01c68a39$52dfde90$d71671ce@marilyn> Pickerite and leaverite here. Keep on Rockin Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:50 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names > After a recent discussion on gem differentiation, I waited a minute before > bringing this up, but I *am* curious. > > When we find a mineral in crystal form that we don't recognize, we call it > sparkley-ite. I tried to call it "Siebelite" but it just didn't stick for > most things, so we are stuck with sparkley-ite.We were fortunate to learn > about rockhounding near Portland, Oregon, so there were plenty of zeolites > that received this name before we learned to identify them. > > I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown > minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? > > Julie > > P.S. As we learned, most of our sparkleyite minerals were identified, so I > don't think we actually HAVE any sparkley-ite right now, but I'm looking > forward to the next batch! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From SHMM at sussexonline.com Wed Jun 7 07:19:31 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Wed Jun 7 07:19:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <002c01c68a26$fd9db7c0$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: <000001c68a3d$656ba770$33651540@D3JM7W21> Bob Giegengack! Good scientist. I know him, and am willing to trust just about anything he says. As BK has already said, Giegengack's take on the matter seems like a reasonable view of the matter. Yes, we've certainly had much warmer periods before (although no one has yet mentioned the Carboniferous!!), and there have been periods during which CO2 levels in the atmosphere far exceeded those at present (Carboniferous again). It's difficult to extract the extent of man's influence on climate change from all the other things that affect it, especially since we have such a short period of good global data to draw on. So far, two people have commented that Gore's film is 0% science and 100% politics. Perhaps it's a matter of semantics, but the film is mostly about data presentation in one form or another -- it's full of charts and graphs and comparison photos of various areas that show the visible effects of climate change. That's the observational part of the scientific process. True, the data were presented with a political agenda firmly in mind, yet the film concentrated mostly not on politics per se, but on the data and effects of global warming. It was a discussion about the science of global warming. Now, this may be good science or bad science, even-handed or biased, but it's science nonetheless. So let me amend my previous statement to make it more palatable, perhaps: the film is 90% science, with a 100% political agenda. It pushes the idea that much of what we see in global warming today is due to man's activities. I don't know whether that's true or not -- I'm a geologist, not a climatologist, and it's an amazingly complex system we're talking about here, so I'm not about to hop onto any particular political bandwagon on this topic. However, I still do think this film would be of strong interest to many of our list members. And its final message is one I'd hope we can all endorse, regardless of our respective political meanings: even if our current phase of global warming has little to do with man's activities, there's no reason for us to make it worse, and we can all do our bit to lower our energy demands. In short, I was recommending the film because it was interesting, pertinent to our interests as rockhounds, well presented, and provocative. I didn't mean it as a political endorsement then, and don't now -- but it'll certainly get you thinking, and that's not a bad thing. Sure wish I'd heard Giegengack's presentation -- but I will certainly follow the links to learn more. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of EUGENE HARTSTEIN Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 7:39 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth A few months bac, my paleo club had a presentation by Professor Robert Giegengack, (a Davidson Kennedy Professor Department of Earth and Environmental Science at the University of Pennsylvania.). on "The Science and Policy of Climate Change" http://groups.msn.com/DinosaurandFossilDigs/dvpsnews.msnw?action=get_message &mview=0&ID_Message=513&LastModified=4675559010597938101 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/earth/giegenga.html He presented the most comprehensive analysis of global climate change I had ever seen, from an ancademic who was presenting the facts and the gaps on this subject. His observations and conclusions can be summarized with a few comments: 1- There appears to be a correlation between human activity and climate since the middle ages when large tracts of land were turned into farm land, potentially changing the amount of incident energy reflected back to outer space. This is not a new phenomena, although the rate has increased in the last 150 years. This also shows that a number of human influenced factors can affect local and global climates, not just CO2. 2- The data from isotope analysis in ice borings and geological/paleontological evidence suggest the earth on the whole is about as cool as it has ever been, without freezing over large parts of its surface. There certainly have been much hotter periods in earth's history when life thrived. 3- The mechanism for GW as it involves polyatomic gas molecules, including CO2, is correct but the models do not close. In other words it is clear that these molecules absorb reflected energy from the earth's surface and re-emit it as heat. But , the CO2 balance is not complete and the trend is not all due to CO2. 4- There is a huge anmount of variability in the data due to the precession of earths axis, sunspot activity and other factors that also have huge impacts for extended periods. 5- Considering that CO2 is one likely cause and that our resources are limited, conservation is something we should pursue, but this is not the crisis the press and politicians would have you believe. 6- The degree of concern is inversely proptional to the length of your climatological perspective. In other words paleoclimatologists are the least concerned that a disaster of biblical proportions is looming. The most concerned are meteorologists and politicians To say the least it was a fascinating presentation, filled with data and real scientific analysis, and the first one that just presented the info with a scientific and geological perspective. Gene Hartstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Jun 7 07:26:51 2006 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Jun 7 07:27:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth References: <001801c689d6$462a9400$c1f9f604@TheBlackAdder> <002c01c68a26$fd9db7c0$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: <001b01c68a3e$6bd0f6a0$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Eugene, is there anywhere to get a copy of the Professor's talk? I agree with his conclusions what little I know about it. It is also rather disconcerting as to how much carbon dioxide levels have risen as measured over the last 50 years. ----- Original Message ----- From: "EUGENE HARTSTEIN" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 4:39 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth A few months bac, my paleo club had a presentation by Professor Robert Giegengack, (a Davidson Kennedy Professor Department of Earth and Environmental Science at the University of Pennsylvania.). on "The Science and Policy of Climate Change" http://groups.msn.com/DinosaurandFossilDigs/dvpsnews.msnw?action=get_message &mview=0&ID_Message=513&LastModified=4675559010597938101 http://www.sas.upenn.edu/earth/giegenga.html He presented the most comprehensive analysis of global climate change I had ever seen, from an ancademic who was presenting the facts and the gaps on this subject. His observations and conclusions can be summarized with a few comments: 1- There appears to be a correlation between human activity and climate since the middle ages when large tracts of land were turned into farm land, potentially changing the amount of incident energy reflected back to outer space. This is not a new phenomena, although the rate has increased in the last 150 years. This also shows that a number of human influenced factors can affect local and global climates, not just CO2. 2- The data from isotope analysis in ice borings and geological/paleontological evidence suggest the earth on the whole is about as cool as it has ever been, without freezing over large parts of its surface. There certainly have been much hotter periods in earth's history when life thrived. 3- The mechanism for GW as it involves polyatomic gas molecules, including CO2, is correct but the models do not close. In other words it is clear that these molecules absorb reflected energy from the earth's surface and re-emit it as heat. But , the CO2 balance is not complete and the trend is not all due to CO2. 4- There is a huge anmount of variability in the data due to the precession of earths axis, sunspot activity and other factors that also have huge impacts for extended periods. 5- Considering that CO2 is one likely cause and that our resources are limited, conservation is something we should pursue, but this is not the crisis the press and politicians would have you believe. 6- The degree of concern is inversely proptional to the length of your climatological perspective. In other words paleoclimatologists are the least concerned that a disaster of biblical proportions is looming. The most concerned are meteorologists and politicians To say the least it was a fascinating presentation, filled with data and real scientific analysis, and the first one that just presented the info with a scientific and geological perspective. Gene Hartstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rockhounds at adelphia.net Wed Jun 7 07:57:10 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Wed Jun 7 07:51:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suggestions for bull point rock chisel In-Reply-To: <009e01c68a0d$f1e36f60$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <000b01c68a42$a8c7d160$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> This is a great tip. 2 weeks ago I chipped 70 pounds of polka dot agate (very hard material) in Oregon and gave my chisel hand a good blow. I was contemplating something like you describe below. Thanks for saving me lots of time ( designing something) and my hands. I busted the chisel on that material!! \Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Ted Kowalski Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:42 AM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Suggestions for bull point rock chisel Johan: I believe Kreigh originally supplied the link to this company. http://trowandholden.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi?cart_id=2553405.1780*sI4pd0 &product=cat1 (cut and paste the link or go to the base website http://trowandholden.com and click your way into the chisel section of the online catalog) This doesn't help your hand but... When I started taking my nephews and sons rock hunting a few years ago, fingers and hands became very endangered even with those supposedly protective broad plastic chisel sleeves. We got around this by making some chisel holders that function as extensions of your hand. All it takes is a wooden dowel, rubber hose with an inside diameter that matches the outside dowel diameter and some hose clamps. Cut the dowel to length, push one end of the hose onto the dowel and secure with a hose clamp (about 3", 75mm from the end). Wrap the hose around the chisel. I try for three wraps and bring the hose end back to the dowel. Secure the hose end to the dowel with another hose clamp. This extension method amplifies chisel bounce, but eliminates smacked knuckles. If you've got someone who is swinging a sledge; using a three foot dowel greatly enhances safety of your digits and even allows you to keep your legs and feet out of danger. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Johan Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 11:04 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Suggestions for bull point rock chisel I am searching for a new bull point rock chisel. Guard or no guard, i hit my hands when I get tired (too soon ...) whacking bolders. There seem to be models with wide heads that are better at handling the impact of crack hammers. What brand has wide heads and are they good for cracking rock? Shorter chisels seem to work better for me. They are more stable and bounce less. I have longer chisels for emptying pockets once I get to them. -- Johan Maertens _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rockhounds at adelphia.net Wed Jun 7 08:06:37 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Wed Jun 7 08:01:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060606180621.03e0e018@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <000c01c68a43$f94ddf70$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> "Rabbit stone" We did not know agate from any other rock when we joined our local club We were "baby" rock hounds learning the difference from rocks and Simi precious mineral. A senior member took us under his wing to teach us the various minerals. He would say " this is agate, jasper, thunder egg" and do on. then he pointed out the rare "rabbit stone" We lapped all this education then he told us if we found one like it we should pick it up and toss it at a rabbit! -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:09 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Stupid Pretend Mineral Names We use "dunnoite" as in don't-know-ite. Aloha, Kitty At 05:50 PM 6/6/2006, you wrote: >I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown >minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? > >Julie _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From johnjold at comcast.net Wed Jun 7 08:27:33 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Wed Jun 7 08:27:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suggestions for bull point rock chisel Message-ID: <903d69eb3e407f1e157104c15647cc56@comcast.net> When looking at the Trow and Holden Catalog, consider their carbide line of chisels. They are more costly than regular steel but will outlast 10 regular chisels. One of the diggers at Diamond Acres last summer showed me a Trow Holden chisel that after years of use had a broken point. He returned it to the company and they replaced the point and reground the mushroom head returning a shorter but renewed tool. They supply tools to the stone carving and quarry industries. I have visited the company in Barre VT. You can buy tools on the spot. They are near the Rock of Ages Quarry which is also worth a visit both for the quarry and the stone works. The Rock of Ages people have been giving special blocks to their carvers when a relative died for advertising purposes. The results of this effort may be seen at the Hope Cemetery. I remember a biplane, soccer ball, an entire book in French and a couple holding hands between twin beds. Give the Trow and Holden catalog a look http://trowandholden.com From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Jun 7 08:45:50 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Jun 7 08:45:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suggestions for bull point rock chisel In-Reply-To: <903d69eb3e407f1e157104c15647cc56@comcast.net> References: <903d69eb3e407f1e157104c15647cc56@comcast.net> Message-ID: I would like to second (or is it third?) the recommendations for Trow and Holden carbide tipped chisels. I have a 7/8" hand chisel and a 7/8" hand point (both with carbide tips) that I bought from them over 10 years ago. The steel holding one of the tips finally wore away a couple of years ago and I sent the chisel and tip back to them for repair. In the return mail I received a shorter but good-as-new refurbished chisel at no charge. These chisels last and last if used properly (never, never put side force on the tip by prying with them) and they "bite" into the rock when a steel chisel just bounces. They are about $50 US apiece but worth every bit of it in my opinion. This doesn't solve the hand-banging problem but Ted K's extension recommendation solves that one. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 6/7/06, John Joldersma wrote: > > When looking at the Trow and Holden Catalog, consider their > carbide line of chisels. > They are more costly than regular steel but will outlast 10 regular > chisels. > One of the diggers at Diamond Acres last summer showed me a Trow Holden > chisel > that after years of use had a broken point. He returned it to the > company and they > replaced the point and reground the mushroom head returning a shorter > but renewed > tool. > They supply tools to the stone carving and quarry industries. I > have visited the company > in Barre VT. You can buy tools on the spot. They are near the Rock of > Ages Quarry which > is also worth a visit both for the quarry and the stone works. > The Rock of Ages people have been giving special blocks to their > carvers when a relative > died for advertising purposes. The results of this effort may be seen > at the Hope Cemetery. > I remember a biplane, soccer ball, an entire book in French and a > couple holding hands > between twin beds. > > Give the Trow and Holden catalog a look > > http://trowandholden.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Wed Jun 7 11:32:20 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Wed Jun 7 11:32:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <123201c68a23$45542a30$c0089444@remains> Message-ID: <20060607183220.996A14D3E7@io.frii.com> Then there's plain old... junkite. Often, with glare, dust, mud, and old eyes, you just can't be sure in the field if that chunk in your hand will tumble-polish nicely or not. After you get it home and wash it, maybe even tumble-grind it a little to remove the surface crude, you can decide if it's junkite or something better. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 7 11:39:19 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Jun 7 11:39:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <20060607183919.5385.qmail@web34312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A new update of my price list will be posted shortly at www.sauktown.com This month the new additions will mainly be from the Palermo #1 Mine in New Hampshire, the Clara Mine in Germany, and various localities on the Kola Peninsula, Russia. Some are in short supply, so please look quickly to avoid being left out. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jun 7 11:43:26 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Jun 7 11:46:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: <20060607183220.996A14D3E7@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <009d01c68a62$49774860$0200a8c0@warren> When highgrading at home, we call those "yardrocks". (Perhaps it should be yardite?) Many of our yard rocks are what we call "almost-jasper" :D Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Silverstein" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names > Then there's plain old... junkite. > > Often, with glare, dust, mud, and old eyes, you just can't be sure in > the field if that chunk in your hand will tumble-polish nicely or not. > After you get it home and wash it, maybe even tumble-grind it a little > to remove the surface crude, you can decide if it's junkite or something > better. > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From ajs at frii.com Wed Jun 7 11:53:07 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Wed Jun 7 11:53:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060607185307.E1F744D3E7@io.frii.com> > We just don't have enough data to begin to understand what is going on > in this very complex climate system. Agreed. What's sobering though is how serious the consequences MIGHT be if we mess it up. I've read some interesting factoids in the excellent Caltech alumni magazine and other sources. Consider that with no atmosphere, the average surface temperature on this planet would be about 0 degrees F, but in fact it's about 57 degrees. That's a lot of greenhouse effect. Not sure what difference the albedo makes, is the moon actually at 0 degrees F on average, or perhaps higher due to being darker? (But what color/albedo would the Earth have with no air or water?) On Venus, it would be 212 degrees F, but is actually 900 degrees due to the thick atmosphere. (Hmmm... Is terraforming the planet utterly out of the question, because the sun is just too hot there?) In the past it was believed that the "snowball Earth" must never have happened, because the reduction in albedo would be an inescapable trap. Now they think it's happened about five times, the last time lasting 70 MY. The exit was continued emission of CO2 from volcanoes (which seems to me to be a slow recycling of oceanic carbonaceous sediment). The melt-out was abrupt and the swing was from -50 F to over 100 F, if I recall right. The heat nearly wiped out all remaining life on the planet (still one-celled). Right after this melt-out, the Caltech article says, cyanobacteria learned how to do efficient two-stage photosynthesis, and that changed everything, mediating future CO2 levels in particular. I don't recall why the snowball can't recurr, just due to slow solar flux increase as the sun ages? The article showed a graph of visible light absorption by all known photochemicals used in photosynthesis, and observed a lack of any absorption in the green; hence we live on a green (and blue and white) planet. The ultimate bioterrorism would be the creation and release of a bacterium capable of absorbing green light using a new cascade. The planet would turn black, and the temperature would soar to like 120 degrees F just due to albedo, not greenhouse gases. By the way, over geologic time, the proportion of O2 in the atmosphere has ranged from 13% to 35%, now 21%, if I recall right. More O2 supports more and larger insects in particular and other animals in general. Anyway, what we do know is that humans have increased the CO2 in the atmosphere by 50% (if I recall right) in the geologic blink of an eye. How this perturbs the rest of the system is unclear, but we will find out. What concerns me is that as fossil energy demand increases and we exhaust the "cheap" supplies, we will dump hugely increasing amounts of CO2 ("parasitically" needed to process the kerogen shale, tar sands, etc) into the mix. Kind of like when a stock's P/E ratio rises along with its price, a multiplying effect. Cheers? Alan Silverstein From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Jun 7 12:02:34 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Jun 7 12:03:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: <20060607183220.996A14D3E7@io.frii.com> <009d01c68a62$49774860$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <002c01c68a64$ef4cfa80$c0089444@remains> and then there's that really expensive material from New Jersey (Franklin, maybe?) that no one can afford to own.... Fuhgeddabowditite...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names > When highgrading at home, we call those "yardrocks". (Perhaps it should be > yardite?) Many of our yard rocks are what we call "almost-jasper" :D > > Julie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Silverstein" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:32 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names > > >> Then there's plain old... junkite. >> >> Often, with glare, dust, mud, and old eyes, you just can't be sure in >> the field if that chunk in your hand will tumble-polish nicely or not. >> After you get it home and wash it, maybe even tumble-grind it a little >> to remove the surface crude, you can decide if it's junkite or something >> better. >> >> Cheers, >> Alan Silverstein >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Cycadwood at aol.com Wed Jun 7 12:17:46 2006 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 7 12:18:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names Message-ID: <2d4.805eaf2.31b8805a@aol.com> One of the old-timers I used to rock hunt with had a nice rock term. It went like this: Me: "Hey Vince, what's this rock." Vince: "That's sexstone." Me: "What is that?" Vince. "It's just a @%&#ing rock." I later learned this was similar to crapite. Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com_ (mailto:publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com) 970.242.5255 cell 970.216.9641 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and Cycads and Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dguin at earthlink.net Wed Jun 7 12:27:51 2006 From: dguin at earthlink.net (Dave Guin) Date: Wed Jun 7 12:28:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <2d4.805eaf2.31b8805a@aol.com> References: <2d4.805eaf2.31b8805a@aol.com> Message-ID: <448728B7.7080000@earthlink.net> Cycadwood@aol.com wrote: > >Vince. "It's just a @%&#ing rock." > > > I've used the name "fornicite" for the same types of rocks. Peace, dave From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jun 7 12:28:53 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Jun 7 12:31:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: <2d4.805eaf2.31b8805a@aol.com> Message-ID: <00bd01c68a68$a1a56200$0200a8c0@warren> I will cherish this one forever. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names > One of the old-timers I used to rock hunt with had a nice rock term. It > went > like this: > > Me: "Hey Vince, what's this rock." > > Vince: "That's sexstone." > > Me: "What is that?" > > Vince. "It's just a @%&#ing rock." > > > I later learned this was similar to crapite. > > > > Frank J. Daniels, Publisher From efkern at earthlink.net Wed Jun 7 13:10:00 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Wed Jun 7 13:10:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth References: <20060607185307.E1F744D3E7@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <002f01c68a6e$5c0f4ca0$38fef604@TheBlackAdder> Hi Alan & list, You're right about the 21% number, but it's for Oxygen, not CO2. CO2 is presently at 0.035% or 350 parts per million, up from 280 parts per million, or 0.028% 60 years ago. Millions of years ago it may have been as high as 20% since the % of oxygen was quite low; too low to sustain vertebrate life. Respectfully responding to a post by Earl, science is not about 'consensus' or being 'even handed'. It is about verifiable phenomena. Since all of the case for anthropogenic induced GW is based on computer modeling (which ignores cloud cover due to it being too complex a variable to model), we can't know because we can't verify. As Bryan pointed out, water vapor has far more influence on the greenhouse effect than CO2 or methane. BTW, the temperature on the moon ranges from below freezing to above boiling depending on whether your thermometer is on the dark side or the light side and the reflectivity of the thermometer bulb or thermocouple. Since there is no atmosphere, one cannot measure air temperature as we do here. Cheers, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Silverstein" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > We just don't have enough data to begin to understand what is going on > in this very complex climate system. Agreed. What's sobering though is how serious the consequences MIGHT be if we mess it up. I've read some interesting factoids in the excellent Caltech alumni magazine and other sources. Consider that with no atmosphere, the average surface temperature on this planet would be about 0 degrees F, but in fact it's about 57 degrees. That's a lot of greenhouse effect. Not sure what difference the albedo makes, is the moon actually at 0 degrees F on average, or perhaps higher due to being darker? (But what color/albedo would the Earth have with no air or water?) On Venus, it would be 212 degrees F, but is actually 900 degrees due to the thick atmosphere. (Hmmm... Is terraforming the planet utterly out of the question, because the sun is just too hot there?) In the past it was believed that the "snowball Earth" must never have happened, because the reduction in albedo would be an inescapable trap. Now they think it's happened about five times, the last time lasting 70 MY. The exit was continued emission of CO2 from volcanoes (which seems to me to be a slow recycling of oceanic carbonaceous sediment). The melt-out was abrupt and the swing was from -50 F to over 100 F, if I recall right. The heat nearly wiped out all remaining life on the planet (still one-celled). Right after this melt-out, the Caltech article says, cyanobacteria learned how to do efficient two-stage photosynthesis, and that changed everything, mediating future CO2 levels in particular. I don't recall why the snowball can't recurr, just due to slow solar flux increase as the sun ages? The article showed a graph of visible light absorption by all known photochemicals used in photosynthesis, and observed a lack of any absorption in the green; hence we live on a green (and blue and white) planet. The ultimate bioterrorism would be the creation and release of a bacterium capable of absorbing green light using a new cascade. The planet would turn black, and the temperature would soar to like 120 degrees F just due to albedo, not greenhouse gases. By the way, over geologic time, the proportion of O2 in the atmosphere has ranged from 13% to 35%, now 21%, if I recall right. More O2 supports more and larger insects in particular and other animals in general. Anyway, what we do know is that humans have increased the CO2 in the atmosphere by 50% (if I recall right) in the geologic blink of an eye. How this perturbs the rest of the system is unclear, but we will find out. What concerns me is that as fossil energy demand increases and we exhaust the "cheap" supplies, we will dump hugely increasing amounts of CO2 ("parasitically" needed to process the kerogen shale, tar sands, etc) into the mix. Kind of like when a stock's P/E ratio rises along with its price, a multiplying effect. Cheers? Alan Silverstein _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 7 13:26:23 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Jun 7 13:26:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] ettringite/sturmannite References: <20060607183220.996A14D3E7@io.frii.com> <009d01c68a62$49774860$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <002901c68a70$a5596fb0$a5844c0c@LarryRush> Can someone please educate me on the present status of the names and species of ettringite vs. sturmannite? I now have a dozen or so with either names, all looking alike. I thought this controversy was settled some years ago, but I am still seeing what appears to be the same mineral and locality labeled either way. Thanks......Larry From SHMM at sussexonline.com Wed Jun 7 13:42:08 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Wed Jun 7 13:42:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <002f01c68a6e$5c0f4ca0$38fef604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <000101c68a72$dc1fe360$47681540@D3JM7W21> Erich Kern wrote: Respectfully responding to a post by Earl, science is not about 'consensus' or being 'even handed'. It is about verifiable phenomena. ----------------------- No argument there! Hope I didn't give an impression to the contrary -- I've been arguing for years that consensus in science in no guarantee of truth, and the publications in my field (geology) are full of examples. Continental drift, for one: Everybody "knew" for decades that the continents don't move around. We "knew" this because no mechanism for the movement of continents had yet been identified or even imagined. And then came those zebra stripes on the ocean floor (maps of magnetic polarity), and within years a whole new world opened up to us. One test of a computerized climate change model: run it backward and see if it can "predict" what's already been known to occur. This is not an easy test to apply, but it's a useful concept at least. Cheers! Earl From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Jun 7 13:52:46 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Jun 7 13:52:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth Message-ID: <060720062052.14339.44873C9D000BF23500003803216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Alan, Do you have the issue (date/year), or better, an online source, for that Caltech alumni magazine article your referred to? It includes some concepts that I'm not sure I've ever heard before, relating to the early history of Earth's atmosphere and its climate. I searched online and found an archive for this Caltech News magazine, http://pr.caltech.edu/periodicals/CaltechNews/archive.html but I don't know if it's the same one; none of the articles listed in this archive index, seem to have a title or theme matching what you were describing. Thanks, Pete -------------- Original message from Alan Silverstein : -------------- > > We just don't have enough data to begin to understand what is going on > > in this very complex climate system. > > Agreed. What's sobering though is how serious the consequences MIGHT be > if we mess it up. I've read some interesting factoids in the excellent > Caltech alumni magazine and other sources. > > Consider that with no atmosphere, the average surface temperature on > this planet would be about 0 degrees F, but in fact it's about 57 > degrees. That's a lot of greenhouse effect. Not sure what difference > the albedo makes, is the moon actually at 0 degrees F on average, or > perhaps higher due to being darker? (But what color/albedo would the > Earth have with no air or water?) > > On Venus, it would be 212 degrees F, but is actually 900 degrees due to > the thick atmosphere. (Hmmm... Is terraforming the planet utterly out > of the question, because the sun is just too hot there?) > > In the past it was believed that the "snowball Earth" must never have > happened, because the reduction in albedo would be an inescapable trap. > Now they think it's happened about five times, the last time lasting 70 > MY. The exit was continued emission of CO2 from volcanoes (which seems > to me to be a slow recycling of oceanic carbonaceous sediment). The > melt-out was abrupt and the swing was from -50 F to over 100 F, if I > recall right. The heat nearly wiped out all remaining life on the > planet (still one-celled). > > Right after this melt-out, the Caltech article says, cyanobacteria > learned how to do efficient two-stage photosynthesis, and that changed > everything, mediating future CO2 levels in particular. I don't recall > why the snowball can't recurr, just due to slow solar flux increase as > the sun ages? > > The article showed a graph of visible light absorption by all known > photochemicals used in photosynthesis, and observed a lack of any > absorption in the green; hence we live on a green (and blue and white) > planet. The ultimate bioterrorism would be the creation and release of > a bacterium capable of absorbing green light using a new cascade. The > planet would turn black, and the temperature would soar to like 120 > degrees F just due to albedo, not greenhouse gases. > > By the way, over geologic time, the proportion of O2 in the atmosphere > has ranged from 13% to 35%, now 21%, if I recall right. More O2 > supports more and larger insects in particular and other animals in > general. > > Anyway, what we do know is that humans have increased the CO2 in the > atmosphere by 50% (if I recall right) in the geologic blink of an eye. > How this perturbs the rest of the system is unclear, but we will find > out. What concerns me is that as fossil energy demand increases and we > exhaust the "cheap" supplies, we will dump hugely increasing amounts of > CO2 ("parasitically" needed to process the kerogen shale, tar sands, > etc) into the mix. Kind of like when a stock's P/E ratio rises along > with its price, a multiplying effect. > > Cheers? > Alan Silverstein > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kugeln at msn.com Wed Jun 7 14:03:30 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (John Stockwell) Date: Wed Jun 7 14:03:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth References: Message-ID: It seems to me certainly not, unless at 71 I'm more senile than even my friends think. Much northern latitudes ice is atop Greenland. If it melted it would be all added water. And for SURE, since Antarctic ice is significantly atop a continent, its melting would add large volumes of water to the oceans. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Turner" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:52 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > Exactly, well put. > > Recently there was a topic message on the BBC website about the global > warming "phonomenon." As is typical with the comments on this site, most > people blamed the US, George Bush, the western world, over population, > etc, etc, etc for causing this "problem." Here is the post I wrote and > got it posted on their site: > > 65 Million Years ago there were no glaciers, sea level was higher, and the > earth was much much warmer than today. Let me guess, this must have been > due to all those dinosaurs driving those gas guzzling SUV's and that evil > Bush guy for not signing "Kyoto." Put things in perspective, 1, 10, or > even 100 year trends are insignificant and not relevant compared with > geological time. > > The absolute truth is that we are still in an Ice Age. Anytime there are > permanent continental glaciers indicates an ice age. It is very possible > that we are coming out of this ice age and are warming up. However, this > exact same scenario occurred several times the past 20,000 years, and in > several cases we actually began to cool again creating what is known as > "mini Ice Ages." Looking at temperature indicators throughout geologic > time, we are currently almost at the midpoint of all the charts. Although > it may have been the "hottest month on record" somewhere, very precise and > verified records have been kept for maybe 50-70 years at best. This > represents about 0.0000002% of history (since land masses on earth were > established). > > Here's another good one. Many global warming alarmists talk about the > North Pole melting and sea level going up like crazy. However, since ice > is less dense than water, if the North Pole melted, overall sea level > would decrease. > > Andrew Turner > Victorville, CA > > >>From: "Erich Kern" >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth >>Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:01:20 -0700 >> >> >> >>I agree with Bryan, it is 100% politics and zero science. The whole of >>climatology has been >>politicised by this issue, which is to the shame of both science and the >>political process. >>Scientists who want to keep the pipeline of government grant funding open, >>dare not expess any >>skepticism of the prevailing orthodoxy; that of an anthropogenic cause for >>climate change. >> >>The people of the medieval warm period experienced average temperatures >>several degrees warmer >>than at present with the Vikings growing wheat and wine grapes in >>Greenland. When the climate >>became colder around 1300, the Vikings starved or left Greenland. There is >>archaeologic evidence >>of gross nutritional stress to those who were buried in Greenland. >> >>Erich Kern >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "J Bryan Kramer" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >>Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 3:25 PM >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth >> >> >>Sorry to disagree, that film has 100% politics and 0% science and I don't >>think we want to start a AGW flamewar. You live right there in Europe and >>where the Swiss glaciers have retreated they've found Roman ruins. That is >>from the Roman Warm period around 100 BC. And also during the medieval >>Warm >>period which ran from 1000-1300 AD they were growing grape vines in >>England >>and Greenland had active farms. When they can explain all that then they >>will have science on their side. >> >>BK >> >> >>On 6/6/06, Earl Verbeek wrote: >> > >> > Yep, that's one of the interesting effects of global warming -- some >> > places >> > get much colder. If the Gulf Stream slows or stops, much of western >> > Europe >> > will have a climate to match that of similar latitudes in inland >> > Canada. >> > Pretty frosty. >> > >> > Summer 2004 was the first time in memory that ALL of the western part >> > of >> > the >> > Taseq slope in the Ilimaussaq complex in Greenland was free of snow. >>That >> > means it was also the first time in history that collectors with UV >>lights >> > were poring over the ground there. We had a blast, I'll tell you -- >> > everything lights up. But I keep on forgetting to file a field trip >> > report >> > for the list . . . >> > >> > Cheers- Earl >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel >>Emmermann >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:05 PM >> > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth >> > >> > In Belgium the weather is way too cold for the time of year. >> > The weatherman promised a mild 23? C for the weekend. Two days ago the >> > temperature did not get above 12? C and there was a light frost on the >> > ground at night. Three years ago we were north of 30?C from practically >> > mid >> > May until the end of September. Seems that the "conveyer belt" really >> > IS >> > slowing down. >> > On the up-side of things; receding gletschers in Greenland may expose >>more >> > of those exquisite fluorescing minerals ;-))) >> > >> > Cheers >> > >> > Axel >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Jun 7 15:19:37 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Jun 7 14:18:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think that the oceans are an enormous buffer that keep the energy balance of the planet galloping AFTER the facts. As a result, Earth's climate behaves like a harmonica... up and down. When the buffer is full, the curtain falls... or not? This is not a decision I would care to make for all mankind. Personally I would be VERY carefull before dismissing phenomena like global warming, global dimming... The fact that our sun is a cepheid variable star does not help in determining the long term effects of our actions on the climate. Ignoring a risk is not the same thing as warding of danger. Aren't we terribly of topic and dangerously close to getting less a-political than is desirable ;-))) Cheers Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Andrew Turner Verzonden: woensdag 7 juni 2006 4:53 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth Exactly, well put. Recently there was a topic message on the BBC website about the global warming "phonomenon." As is typical with the comments on this site, most people blamed the US, George Bush, the western world, over population, etc, etc, etc for causing this "problem." Here is the post I wrote and got it posted on their site: 65 Million Years ago there were no glaciers, sea level was higher, and the earth was much much warmer than today. Let me guess, this must have been due to all those dinosaurs driving those gas guzzling SUV's and that evil Bush guy for not signing "Kyoto." Put things in perspective, 1, 10, or even 100 year trends are insignificant and not relevant compared with geological time. The absolute truth is that we are still in an Ice Age. Anytime there are permanent continental glaciers indicates an ice age. It is very possible that we are coming out of this ice age and are warming up. However, this exact same scenario occurred several times the past 20,000 years, and in several cases we actually began to cool again creating what is known as "mini Ice Ages." Looking at temperature indicators throughout geologic time, we are currently almost at the midpoint of all the charts. Although it may have been the "hottest month on record" somewhere, very precise and verified records have been kept for maybe 50-70 years at best. This represents about 0.0000002% of history (since land masses on earth were established). Here's another good one. Many global warming alarmists talk about the North Pole melting and sea level going up like crazy. However, since ice is less dense than water, if the North Pole melted, overall sea level would decrease. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA >From: "Erich Kern" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth >Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:01:20 -0700 > > > >I agree with Bryan, it is 100% politics and zero science. The whole of >climatology has been >politicised by this issue, which is to the shame of both science and the >political process. >Scientists who want to keep the pipeline of government grant funding open, >dare not expess any >skepticism of the prevailing orthodoxy; that of an anthropogenic cause for >climate change. > >The people of the medieval warm period experienced average temperatures >several degrees warmer >than at present with the Vikings growing wheat and wine grapes in >Greenland. When the climate >became colder around 1300, the Vikings starved or left Greenland. There is >archaeologic evidence >of gross nutritional stress to those who were buried in Greenland. > >Erich Kern > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "J Bryan Kramer" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 3:25 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > > >Sorry to disagree, that film has 100% politics and 0% science and I don't >think we want to start a AGW flamewar. You live right there in Europe and >where the Swiss glaciers have retreated they've found Roman ruins. That is >from the Roman Warm period around 100 BC. And also during the medieval Warm >period which ran from 1000-1300 AD they were growing grape vines in >England >and Greenland had active farms. When they can explain all that then they >will have science on their side. > >BK > > >On 6/6/06, Earl Verbeek wrote: > > > > Yep, that's one of the interesting effects of global warming -- some > > places > > get much colder. If the Gulf Stream slows or stops, much of western > > Europe > > will have a climate to match that of similar latitudes in inland Canada. > > Pretty frosty. > > > > Summer 2004 was the first time in memory that ALL of the western part of > > the > > Taseq slope in the Ilimaussaq complex in Greenland was free of snow. >That > > means it was also the first time in history that collectors with UV >lights > > were poring over the ground there. We had a blast, I'll tell you -- > > everything lights up. But I keep on forgetting to file a field trip > > report > > for the list . . . > > > > Cheers- Earl > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel >Emmermann > > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:05 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > > > > In Belgium the weather is way too cold for the time of year. > > The weatherman promised a mild 23? C for the weekend. Two days ago the > > temperature did not get above 12? C and there was a light frost on the > > ground at night. Three years ago we were north of 30?C from practically > > mid > > May until the end of September. Seems that the "conveyer belt" really IS > > slowing down. > > On the up-side of things; receding gletschers in Greenland may expose >more > > of those exquisite fluorescing minerals ;-))) > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jun 7 14:39:03 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jun 7 14:39:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually we are behaving very nicely. I thought this would quickly degenerate into a flame war but everyone has been civil. This is about earth science anyway so not too far off topic. As for making changes to delay AGW if it exists, you Europeans tried Kyoto already and not one country has met its goals under that agreement. And Kyoto would have zero effect on AGW, something like .015 degrees C. The only change that seems practical is mass adoption of nuclear energy for electric power generation. And the environmentalist are against that. India and China are never going to agree to limit industrialization, and who can blame them. So providing them with access to advanced technology in order to allow them to skip the smoke stack industry phase might help. Otherwise we better be thinking about how we are going to remediate the effects because no society is going to commit suicide and completely eliminate CO2 production. BK On 6/7/06, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > I think that the oceans are an enormous buffer that keep the energy > balance > of the planet galloping AFTER the facts. > As a result, Earth's climate behaves like a harmonica... up and down. > When the buffer is full, the curtain falls... or not? This is not a > decision > I would care to make for all mankind. Personally I would be VERY carefull > before dismissing phenomena like global warming, global dimming... > The fact that our sun is a cepheid variable star does not help in > determining the long term effects of our actions on the climate. > Ignoring a risk is not the same thing as warding of danger. > > Aren't we terribly of topic and dangerously close to getting less > a-political than is desirable ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Andrew Turner > Verzonden: woensdag 7 juni 2006 4:53 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > > > Exactly, well put. > > Recently there was a topic message on the BBC website about the global > warming "phonomenon." As is typical with the comments on this site, most > people blamed the US, George Bush, the western world, over population, > etc, > etc, etc for causing this "problem." Here is the post I wrote and got it > posted on their site: > > 65 Million Years ago there were no glaciers, sea level was higher, and the > earth was much much warmer than today. Let me guess, this must have been > due to all those dinosaurs driving those gas guzzling SUV's and that evil > Bush guy for not signing "Kyoto." Put things in perspective, 1, 10, or > even > 100 year trends are insignificant and not relevant compared with > geological > time. > > The absolute truth is that we are still in an Ice Age. Anytime there are > permanent continental glaciers indicates an ice age. It is very possible > that we are coming out of this ice age and are warming up. However, this > exact same scenario occurred several times the past 20,000 years, and in > several cases we actually began to cool again creating what is known as > "mini Ice Ages." Looking at temperature indicators throughout geologic > time, we are currently almost at the midpoint of all the charts. Although > it may have been the "hottest month on record" somewhere, very precise and > verified records have been kept for maybe 50-70 years at best. This > represents about 0.0000002% of history (since land masses on earth were > established). > > Here's another good one. Many global warming alarmists talk about the > North > Pole melting and sea level going up like crazy. However, since ice is > less > dense than water, if the North Pole melted, overall sea level would > decrease. > > Andrew Turner > Victorville, CA > > > >From: "Erich Kern" > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > >Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 19:01:20 -0700 > > > > > > > >I agree with Bryan, it is 100% politics and zero science. The whole of > >climatology has been > >politicised by this issue, which is to the shame of both science and the > >political process. > >Scientists who want to keep the pipeline of government grant funding > open, > >dare not expess any > >skepticism of the prevailing orthodoxy; that of an anthropogenic cause > for > >climate change. > > > >The people of the medieval warm period experienced average temperatures > >several degrees warmer > >than at present with the Vikings growing wheat and wine grapes in > >Greenland. When the climate > >became colder around 1300, the Vikings starved or left Greenland. There > is > >archaeologic evidence > >of gross nutritional stress to those who were buried in Greenland. > > > >Erich Kern > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "J Bryan Kramer" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > >Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 3:25 PM > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > > > > > >Sorry to disagree, that film has 100% politics and 0% science and I don't > >think we want to start a AGW flamewar. You live right there in Europe and > >where the Swiss glaciers have retreated they've found Roman ruins. That > is > >from the Roman Warm period around 100 BC. And also during the medieval > Warm > >period which ran from 1000-1300 AD they were growing grape vines in > >England > >and Greenland had active farms. When they can explain all that then they > >will have science on their side. > > > >BK > > > > > >On 6/6/06, Earl Verbeek wrote: > > > > > > Yep, that's one of the interesting effects of global warming -- some > > > places > > > get much colder. If the Gulf Stream slows or stops, much of western > > > Europe > > > will have a climate to match that of similar latitudes in inland > Canada. > > > Pretty frosty. > > > > > > Summer 2004 was the first time in memory that ALL of the western part > of > > > the > > > Taseq slope in the Ilimaussaq complex in Greenland was free of snow. > >That > > > means it was also the first time in history that collectors with UV > >lights > > > were poring over the ground there. We had a blast, I'll tell you -- > > > everything lights up. But I keep on forgetting to file a field trip > > > report > > > for the list . . . > > > > > > Cheers- Earl > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel > >Emmermann > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:05 PM > > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > > > > > > In Belgium the weather is way too cold for the time of year. > > > The weatherman promised a mild 23? C for the weekend. Two days ago the > > > temperature did not get above 12? C and there was a light frost on the > > > ground at night. Three years ago we were north of 30?C from > practically > > > mid > > > May until the end of September. Seems that the "conveyer belt" really > IS > > > slowing down. > > > On the up-side of things; receding gletschers in Greenland may expose > >more > > > of those exquisite fluorescing minerals ;-))) > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > >--- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jun 7 15:37:03 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jun 7 15:33:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1><002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush><001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> <007c01c689dc$c7c7ac40$6aece2d1@b1quvu32> <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <4487544E.6049@Tomaszewski.net> Julie Siebel wrote: > I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown > minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? Early in April I found labeled specimens of white Cementite and black Roadite in my collection that my kids thought I should have. There is the classic Leaverite. I've also run into Yatelmeite and Xite for unknowns. Kreigh From ki3u at hotmail.com Wed Jun 7 16:01:27 2006 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Wed Jun 7 16:01:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't think we're off-topic. Earth is a big rock we all like to hound around on. I'm very interested in this discussion and I'm learning stuff from everyone. For what it's worth: about four or five years ago I tried researching, on and offline, the total energy transformations caused by man on Earth. Starting with petroleum and it BTU's and going to hydro and everything else I could think of, I gathered my numbers on the premise that all manmade energy activities (including muscle-flexing at the keyboard sending list posts :) eventually wind up as heat. My goal was to get a number, however approximate, for the manmade heat contribution to Earth by the end of this (21st) century. Please don't press me for the details, as all my papers are locked away in a barn more than a hundred miles away, so I'm going by memory. I wound up with the result, based on trends (especially population expansion) at the time, that by the year 2100, man's rate of heat production on Earth would be roughly equal to 1% of the solar flux. >From my point of view, that's the equivalent of the ignition of a second sun in the sky. Berj Axel Emmermann wrote Thu, 8 Jun 2006 00:19:37 +0200: > >I think that the oceans are an enormous buffer that keep the energy balance >of the planet galloping AFTER the facts. >As a result, Earth's climate behaves like a harmonica... up and down. >When the buffer is full, the curtain falls... or not? This is not a >decision >I would care to make for all mankind. Personally I would be VERY carefull >before dismissing phenomena like global warming, global dimming... >The fact that our sun is a cepheid variable star does not help in >determining the long term effects of our actions on the climate. >Ignoring a risk is not the same thing as warding of danger. > >Aren't we terribly of topic and dangerously close to getting less >a-political than is desirable ;-))) > >Cheers > >Axel > From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Jun 7 16:20:15 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Jun 7 16:20:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <4487544E.6049@Tomaszewski.net> References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush> <001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> <007c01c689dc$c7c7ac40$6aece2d1@b1quvu32> <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> <4487544E.6049@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Kreigh, I always thought that the correct spelling was Utelmeite but perhaps that is a different mineral all together. Nate Martin On 6/7/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > I've also run into Yatelmeite and Xite for unknowns. > > Kreigh > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Jun 7 16:30:43 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Jun 7 16:30:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Snowball Earth - was: An Inconvenient Truth Message-ID: Alan, et al I have been avoiding this discussion, but the connection to the snowball earth hypothesis provides me with an opportunity to contribute something that is strongly related to mineralogy and geology. One of the proponents of the Snowball Earth hypothesis is Prof. Paul Hoffman of Harvard University. A couple of years ago I asked him to give a presentation to the Boston Mineral Club. It was fascinating and very much related to mineralogy as he described the multidisciplinary efforts that were conducted to interpret unusual sedimentary layers that could only be expected to form in an ocean with little or no oxygen present. Some online references to his work and the general topic can be found at http://www.eps.harvard.edu/people/faculty/hoffman/snowball_paper.html and http://www.eps.harvard.edu/people/faculty/hoffman/snowball_poster.pdf and http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arc98/8_29_98/bob1.htm and http://www.snowballearth.org/ enjoy! Nate Martin Lexington, MA, USA On 6/7/06, Alan Silverstein wrote: > > > We just don't have enough data to begin to understand what is going on > > in this very complex climate system. > > Agreed. What's sobering though is how serious the consequences MIGHT be > if we mess it up. I've read some interesting factoids in the excellent > Caltech alumni magazine and other sources. > > Consider that with no atmosphere, the average surface temperature on > this planet would be about 0 degrees F, but in fact it's about 57 > degrees. That's a lot of greenhouse effect. Not sure what difference > the albedo makes, is the moon actually at 0 degrees F on average, or > perhaps higher due to being darker? (But what color/albedo would the > Earth have with no air or water?) > > On Venus, it would be 212 degrees F, but is actually 900 degrees due to > the thick atmosphere. (Hmmm... Is terraforming the planet utterly out > of the question, because the sun is just too hot there?) > > In the past it was believed that the "snowball Earth" must never have > happened, because the reduction in albedo would be an inescapable trap. > Now they think it's happened about five times, the last time lasting 70 > MY. The exit was continued emission of CO2 from volcanoes (which seems > to me to be a slow recycling of oceanic carbonaceous sediment). The > melt-out was abrupt and the swing was from -50 F to over 100 F, if I > recall right. The heat nearly wiped out all remaining life on the > planet (still one-celled). > > Right after this melt-out, the Caltech article says, cyanobacteria > learned how to do efficient two-stage photosynthesis, and that changed > everything, mediating future CO2 levels in particular. I don't recall > why the snowball can't recurr, just due to slow solar flux increase as > the sun ages? > > The article showed a graph of visible light absorption by all known > photochemicals used in photosynthesis, and observed a lack of any > absorption in the green; hence we live on a green (and blue and white) > planet. The ultimate bioterrorism would be the creation and release of > a bacterium capable of absorbing green light using a new cascade. The > planet would turn black, and the temperature would soar to like 120 > degrees F just due to albedo, not greenhouse gases. > > By the way, over geologic time, the proportion of O2 in the atmosphere > has ranged from 13% to 35%, now 21%, if I recall right. More O2 > supports more and larger insects in particular and other animals in > general. > > Anyway, what we do know is that humans have increased the CO2 in the > atmosphere by 50% (if I recall right) in the geologic blink of an eye. > How this perturbs the rest of the system is unclear, but we will find > out. What concerns me is that as fossil energy demand increases and we > exhaust the "cheap" supplies, we will dump hugely increasing amounts of > CO2 ("parasitically" needed to process the kerogen shale, tar sands, > etc) into the mix. Kind of like when a stock's P/E ratio rises along > with its price, a multiplying effect. > > Cheers? > Alan Silverstein > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Wed Jun 7 16:46:34 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Jun 7 16:46:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth (Yea !) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060607133946.03c73298@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Hi all, I held my breath when Earl first introduced this topic because I too thought it would degenerate into a flame war. I've begun to breathe more easily now, and am delighted that people are acknowledging that there are political issues involved but not dwelling on them, and exchanging ideas and information in a civil and intelligent manner. Thank you all for being great Rockhound participants! It's still very interesting too. Aloha, Kitty At 11:39 AM 6/7/2006, you wrote: >Actually we are behaving very nicely. I thought this would quickly >degenerate into a flame war but everyone has been civil. This is about earth >science anyway so not too far off topic. > >BK From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Jun 7 16:51:52 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Jun 7 16:50:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44876698.6080402@verizon.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > Aren't we terribly of topic and dangerously close to getting less > a-political than is desirable ;-))) Friend Axel, Indeed I have been impressed by the pointed, focused, intelligent, rational debate on this topic. Upon its appearance, I said, "oh no, here we go." But instead we have seen the best this list has to offer. Keep it up, Don From gene at fossilnut.com Wed Jun 7 16:56:36 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Wed Jun 7 16:56:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth References: <001801c689d6$462a9400$c1f9f604@TheBlackAdder><002c01c68a26$fd9db7c0$6400a8c0@hppav> <001b01c68a3e$6bd0f6a0$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <000f01c68a8e$0334f830$6400a8c0@hppav> I don't know but one of the two links I gave is for U. Penn and I'm sure you could reach him there and ask. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jaybates" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > Eugene, is there anywhere to get a copy of the Professor's talk? I agree > with his conclusions what little I know about it. It is also rather > disconcerting as to how much carbon dioxide levels have risen as measured > over the last 50 years. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "EUGENE HARTSTEIN" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 4:39 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth > > > A few months bac, my paleo club had a presentation by Professor Robert > Giegengack, (a Davidson Kennedy Professor Department of Earth and > Environmental Science at the University of Pennsylvania.). on "The Science > and Policy of Climate Change" > > http://groups.msn.com/DinosaurandFossilDigs/dvpsnews.msnw?action=get_message > &mview=0&ID_Message=513&LastModified=4675559010597938101 > > http://www.sas.upenn.edu/earth/giegenga.html > > He presented the most comprehensive analysis of global climate change I > had > ever seen, from an ancademic who was presenting the facts and the gaps on > this subject. His observations and conclusions can be summarized with a > few > comments: > > 1- There appears to be a correlation between human activity and climate > since the middle ages when large tracts of land were turned into farm > land, > potentially changing the amount of incident energy reflected back to outer > space. This is not a new phenomena, although the rate has increased in the > last 150 years. This also shows that a number of human influenced factors > can affect local and global climates, not just CO2. > > 2- The data from isotope analysis in ice borings and > geological/paleontological evidence suggest the earth on the whole is > about > as cool as it has ever been, without freezing over large parts of its > surface. There certainly have been much hotter periods in earth's history > when life thrived. > > 3- The mechanism for GW as it involves polyatomic gas molecules, including > CO2, is correct but the models do not close. In other words it is clear > that > these molecules absorb reflected energy from the earth's surface and > re-emit > it as heat. But , the CO2 balance is not complete and the trend is not all > due to CO2. > > 4- There is a huge anmount of variability in the data due to the > precession > of earths axis, sunspot activity and other factors that also have huge > impacts for extended periods. > > 5- Considering that CO2 is one likely cause and that our resources are > limited, conservation is something we should pursue, but this is not the > crisis the press and politicians would have you believe. > > 6- The degree of concern is inversely proptional to the length of your > climatological perspective. In other words paleoclimatologists are the > least > concerned that a disaster of biblical proportions is looming. The most > concerned are meteorologists and politicians > > To say the least it was a fascinating presentation, filled with data and > real scientific analysis, and the first one that just presented the info > with a scientific and geological perspective. > > Gene Hartstein > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kugeln at msn.com Wed Jun 7 17:17:34 2006 From: kugeln at msn.com (John Stockwell) Date: Wed Jun 7 17:17:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Snowball Earth - was: An Inconvenient Truth References: Message-ID: Yes, it's a very interesting book, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Martin" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 4:30 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Snowball Earth - was: An Inconvenient Truth > Alan, et al > > I have been avoiding this discussion, but the connection to the snowball > earth hypothesis provides me with an opportunity to contribute something > that is strongly related to mineralogy and geology. One of the proponents > of the Snowball Earth hypothesis is Prof. Paul Hoffman of Harvard > University. A couple of years ago I asked him to give a presentation to > the > Boston Mineral Club. It was fascinating and very much related to > mineralogy > as he described the multidisciplinary efforts that were conducted to > interpret unusual sedimentary layers that could only be expected to form > in > an ocean with little or no oxygen present. Some online references to his > work and the general topic can be found at > > http://www.eps.harvard.edu/people/faculty/hoffman/snowball_paper.html > and > http://www.eps.harvard.edu/people/faculty/hoffman/snowball_poster.pdf > and > http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn_arc98/8_29_98/bob1.htm > and > http://www.snowballearth.org/ > > enjoy! > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA, USA > > > On 6/7/06, Alan Silverstein wrote: >> >> > We just don't have enough data to begin to understand what is going on >> > in this very complex climate system. >> >> Agreed. What's sobering though is how serious the consequences MIGHT be >> if we mess it up. I've read some interesting factoids in the excellent >> Caltech alumni magazine and other sources. >> >> Consider that with no atmosphere, the average surface temperature on >> this planet would be about 0 degrees F, but in fact it's about 57 >> degrees. That's a lot of greenhouse effect. Not sure what difference >> the albedo makes, is the moon actually at 0 degrees F on average, or >> perhaps higher due to being darker? (But what color/albedo would the >> Earth have with no air or water?) >> >> On Venus, it would be 212 degrees F, but is actually 900 degrees due to >> the thick atmosphere. (Hmmm... Is terraforming the planet utterly out >> of the question, because the sun is just too hot there?) >> >> In the past it was believed that the "snowball Earth" must never have >> happened, because the reduction in albedo would be an inescapable trap. >> Now they think it's happened about five times, the last time lasting 70 >> MY. The exit was continued emission of CO2 from volcanoes (which seems >> to me to be a slow recycling of oceanic carbonaceous sediment). The >> melt-out was abrupt and the swing was from -50 F to over 100 F, if I >> recall right. The heat nearly wiped out all remaining life on the >> planet (still one-celled). >> >> Right after this melt-out, the Caltech article says, cyanobacteria >> learned how to do efficient two-stage photosynthesis, and that changed >> everything, mediating future CO2 levels in particular. I don't recall >> why the snowball can't recurr, just due to slow solar flux increase as >> the sun ages? >> >> The article showed a graph of visible light absorption by all known >> photochemicals used in photosynthesis, and observed a lack of any >> absorption in the green; hence we live on a green (and blue and white) >> planet. The ultimate bioterrorism would be the creation and release of >> a bacterium capable of absorbing green light using a new cascade. The >> planet would turn black, and the temperature would soar to like 120 >> degrees F just due to albedo, not greenhouse gases. >> >> By the way, over geologic time, the proportion of O2 in the atmosphere >> has ranged from 13% to 35%, now 21%, if I recall right. More O2 >> supports more and larger insects in particular and other animals in >> general. >> >> Anyway, what we do know is that humans have increased the CO2 in the >> atmosphere by 50% (if I recall right) in the geologic blink of an eye. >> How this perturbs the rest of the system is unclear, but we will find >> out. What concerns me is that as fossil energy demand increases and we >> exhaust the "cheap" supplies, we will dump hugely increasing amounts of >> CO2 ("parasitically" needed to process the kerogen shale, tar sands, >> etc) into the mix. Kind of like when a stock's P/E ratio rises along >> with its price, a multiplying effect. >> >> Cheers? >> Alan Silverstein >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rockhounds at adelphia.net Wed Jun 7 17:40:11 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Wed Jun 7 17:35:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suggestions for bull point rock chisel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c68a94$1cf8d420$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Thanks for the source. I will order a few and forward this web site to my fellow club members. This kind of information make this list of incredible value. Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Martin Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:46 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suggestions for bull point rock chisel I would like to second (or is it third?) the recommendations for Trow and Holden carbide tipped chisels. I have a 7/8" hand chisel and a 7/8" hand point (both with carbide tips) that I bought from them over 10 years ago. The steel holding one of the tips finally wore away a couple of years ago and I sent the chisel and tip back to them for repair. In the return mail I received a shorter but good-as-new refurbished chisel at no charge. These chisels last and last if used properly (never, never put side force on the tip by prying with them) and they "bite" into the rock when a steel chisel just bounces. They are about $50 US apiece but worth every bit of it in my opinion. This doesn't solve the hand-banging problem but Ted K's extension recommendation solves that one. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 6/7/06, John Joldersma wrote: > > When looking at the Trow and Holden Catalog, consider their > carbide line of chisels. They are more costly than regular steel but > will outlast 10 regular chisels. > One of the diggers at Diamond Acres last summer showed me a Trow Holden > chisel > that after years of use had a broken point. He returned it to the > company and they > replaced the point and reground the mushroom head returning a shorter > but renewed > tool. > They supply tools to the stone carving and quarry industries. I > have visited the company > in Barre VT. You can buy tools on the spot. They are near the Rock of > Ages Quarry which > is also worth a visit both for the quarry and the stone works. > The Rock of Ages people have been giving special blocks to their > carvers when a relative > died for advertising purposes. The results of this effort may be seen > at the Hope Cemetery. > I remember a biplane, soccer ball, an entire book in French and a > couple holding hands > between twin beds. > > Give the Trow and Holden catalog a look > > http://trowandholden.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rockhounds at adelphia.net Wed Jun 7 18:04:18 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Wed Jun 7 17:59:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <000001c68a97$786ef430$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Julie Look what you started! All these "new" minerals will find themselves in many show cases around the world now. I plan to start collecting all these new ****ITES for our club show next year. This list has identified about 30 of them so far.!!! I think I have a piece of that Sparkley-ite in the garage as I type!! Kelly -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Julie Siebel Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 8:51 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names After a recent discussion on gem differentiation, I waited a minute before bringing this up, but I *am* curious. When we find a mineral in crystal form that we don't recognize, we call it sparkley-ite. I tried to call it "Siebelite" but it just didn't stick for most things, so we are stuck with sparkley-ite.We were fortunate to learn about rockhounding near Portland, Oregon, so there were plenty of zeolites that received this name before we learned to identify them. I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? Julie P.S. As we learned, most of our sparkleyite minerals were identified, so I don't think we actually HAVE any sparkley-ite right now, but I'm looking forward to the next batch! _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jun 7 18:16:19 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jun 7 18:12:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush> <001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> <007c01c689dc$c7c7ac40$6aece2d1@b1quvu32> <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> <4487544E.6049@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4487798D.779B@Tomaszewski.net> Nate, I think they are regional varients based on different dialects of American in different areas of the country; imagine rockhounds from New York City, Boston, and Atlanta discussing the same specimen at a show. Kreigh Nathan Martin wrote: > > Kreigh, > > I always thought that the correct spelling was Utelmeite but perhaps that is > a different mineral all together. > > Nate Martin > > On 6/7/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > > > > I've also run into Yatelmeite and Xite for unknowns. > > > > Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Jun 7 18:43:24 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Jun 7 18:40:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] ettringite/sturmannite References: <20060607183220.996A14D3E7@io.frii.com> <009d01c68a62$49774860$0200a8c0@warren> <002901c68a70$a5596fb0$a5844c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <44877FE3.31D7@Tomaszewski.net> Lawrence Rush wrote: > > Can someone please educate me on the present status of the names and species > of ettringite vs. sturmannite? I now have a dozen or so with either names, > all looking alike. > > I thought this controversy was settled some years ago, but I am still seeing > what appears to be the same mineral and locality labeled either way. > > Thanks......Larry Larry, Both are listed as valid minerals on the IMA website. Studies of the crystal lattice structure shows sturmanite is slightly larger than ettringite. Kreigh From turnea55 at hotmail.com Wed Jun 7 18:57:48 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Wed Jun 7 18:57:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <4487798D.779B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: On geology trips I used to help run for intro geology classes, it almost always happend that someone would pick up a piece of asphalt and exclaim "I think I found a conglomerate." We used to make it worse by telling him/her that that was an unusual type of conglomerate called urbanite and then explain its rarity. >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names >Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2006 21:16:19 -0400 > >Nate, > >I think they are regional varients based on different dialects of >American in different areas of the country; imagine rockhounds from New >York City, Boston, and Atlanta discussing the same specimen at a show. > >Kreigh > > >Nathan Martin wrote: > > > > Kreigh, > > > > I always thought that the correct spelling was Utelmeite but perhaps >that is > > a different mineral all together. > > > > Nate Martin > > > > On 6/7/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I've also run into Yatelmeite and Xite for unknowns. > > > > > > Kreigh > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jpjunk at mc.net Wed Jun 7 19:10:51 2006 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Wed Jun 7 19:19:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1><002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush><001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> <007c01c689dc$c7c7ac40$6aece2d1@b1quvu32> <002101c689e5$94660d70$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <61D3D80D-6C67-4FDB-9D63-CAED465FCEC1@mc.net> Many decades ago, as an undergraduate geology student, I was told that there were several professional research papers , published in esteemed journals, which referred to "Frgok". Funny rock; god only knows. John On Jun 6, 2006, at 10:50 PM, Julie Siebel wrote: > After a recent discussion on gem differentiation, I waited a minute > before bringing this up, but I *am* curious. > > When we find a mineral in crystal form that we don't recognize, we > call it sparkley-ite. I tried to call it "Siebelite" but it just > didn't stick for most things, so we are stuck with sparkley-ite.We > were fortunate to learn about rockhounding near Portland, Oregon, > so there were plenty of zeolites that received this name before we > learned to identify them. > > I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for > unknown minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? > > Julie > > P.S. As we learned, most of our sparkleyite minerals were > identified, so I don't think we actually HAVE any sparkley-ite > right now, but I'm looking forward to the next batch! > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Jun 7 20:50:17 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Jun 7 20:50:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth Message-ID: This is one of the best posts I've seen on GW. A nice summation from a broad perspective, and seemingly unbiased. Glenn > From: gene@fossilnut.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 07:39:09 -0400> > A few months bac, my paleo club had a presentation by Professor Robert Giegengack, (a Davidson Kennedy Professor Department of Earth and Environmental Science at the University of Pennsylvania.). on "The Science and Policy of Climate Change"> http://groups.msn.com/DinosaurandFossilDigs/dvpsnews.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=513&LastModified=4675559010597938101http://www.sas.upenn.edu/earth/giegenga.html> He presented the most comprehensive analysis of global climate change I had ever seen, from an ancademic who was presenting the facts and the gaps on this subject. His observations and conclusions can be summarized with a few comments:> > 1- There appears to be a correlation between human activity and climate since the middle ages when large tracts of land were turned into farm land, potentially changing the amount of incident energy reflected back to outer space. This is not a new phenomena, although the rate has increased in the last 150 years. This also shows that a number of human influenced factors can affect local and global climates, not just CO2.> > 2- The data from isotope analysis in ice borings and geological/paleontological evidence suggest the earth on the whole is about as cool as it has ever been, without freezing over large parts of its surface. There certainly have been much hotter periods in earth's history when life thrived.> > 3- The mechanism for GW as it involves polyatomic gas molecules, including CO2, is correct but the models do not close. In other words it is clear that these molecules absorb reflected energy from the earth's surface and re-emit it as heat. But , the CO2 balance is not complete and the trend is not all due to CO2.> > 4- There is a huge anmount of variability in the data due to the precession of earths axis, sunspot activity and other factors that also have huge impacts for extended periods.> > 5- Considering that CO2 is one likely cause and that our resources are limited, conservation is something we should pursue, but this is not the crisis the press and politicians would have you believe.> > 6- The degree of concern is inversely proptional to the length of your climatological perspective. In other words paleoclimatologists are the least concerned that a disaster of biblical proportions is looming. The most concerned are meteorologists and politicians > > To say the least it was a fascinating presentation, filled with data and real scientific analysis, and the first one that just presented the info with a scientific and geological perspective.> > Gene Hartstein _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Wed Jun 7 21:17:46 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Wed Jun 7 21:17:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth References: <000101c68a72$dc1fe360$47681540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <005201c68ab2$7f952390$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> Hi Earl, Good then, and sorry I misunderstood what you'd said. You're right about a good test of a model is to run it backward to see if it comes up with verifiable numbers for, say, temps and min-max's in 1900 for major cites where accurate records had been kept. This has been done with some but not all models, and to my knowledge none of the models tested has come close to a match with recorded reality. One of the errors in the terrestrial temperature record is the 'urban heat island effect' where night time lows will be a few degrees higher at the airport of a major city (all that runway absorbs during the day and emits heat at night) than the temps in the countryside. The satellite temperature records taken since 1978 show much less warming than the terrestrial records do for this reason. Getting back to rocks and minerals, a few months ago I walked a mile into an abandoned mine. That entire tunnel was dug through solid dolomite. Imagine the enormous carbon sink which is all of the carbonate minerals in the world. Most of it sequestered from ever entering the atmosphere until the sun is a red giant. Cheers, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Verbeek" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" ; Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:42 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth Erich Kern wrote: Respectfully responding to a post by Earl, science is not about 'consensus' or being 'even handed'. It is about verifiable phenomena. ----------------------- No argument there! Hope I didn't give an impression to the contrary -- I've been arguing for years that consensus in science in no guarantee of truth, and the publications in my field (geology) are full of examples. Continental drift, for one: Everybody "knew" for decades that the continents don't move around. We "knew" this because no mechanism for the movement of continents had yet been identified or even imagined. And then came those zebra stripes on the ocean floor (maps of magnetic polarity), and within years a whole new world opened up to us. One test of a computerized climate change model: run it backward and see if it can "predict" what's already been known to occur. This is not an easy test to apply, but it's a useful concept at least. Cheers! Earl _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From efkern at earthlink.net Wed Jun 7 21:21:14 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Wed Jun 7 21:22:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: <20060607183220.996A14D3E7@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <005e01c68ab3$2623fe70$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> If someone on this list is making a file of the many creative names, would you please post it to the list in a few days. When we began I had no idea it would be this good. Cheers, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Silverstein" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names Then there's plain old... junkite. Often, with glare, dust, mud, and old eyes, you just can't be sure in the field if that chunk in your hand will tumble-polish nicely or not. After you get it home and wash it, maybe even tumble-grind it a little to remove the surface crude, you can decide if it's junkite or something better. Cheers, Alan Silverstein _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rockhounds at adelphia.net Wed Jun 7 21:45:06 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Wed Jun 7 21:39:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <005e01c68ab3$2623fe70$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <000301c68ab6$50f803f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Erich Here is my un-edited copies of the many "ites" LEAVERITE - as in leave er right where it lays. GAWKITE "GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT IS IS" sparkley-ite "dunnoite" as in don't-know-ite meteorites which aren't...meteorwrong. Goshdurnite "asphaltions" when you find them along a black top road. We also pick up a lot of "shuddalefterite" specimens. There's also "beatsmeite" and "damifinoite" 'Gumballite' for spheroid minerals? the remote Gumbystan Valley....rare, not for sale" wutthuh****isthatite..... My favorite has always been Yechinoids. For the fossil collector these are fossil echinoids that have weathered just a little too long. label "Broccolite" and a piece of raw broccoli in it. "Invisiblite" and "Invisiblite" on matrix and "Invisiblite" cluster Pickerite and leaverite here. junkite. hen highgrading at home, we call those "yardrocks". (Perhaps it should be yardite?) Many of our yard rocks are what we call "almost-jasper" a nd then there's that really expensive material from New Jersey (Franklin, maybe?) that no one can afford to own.... Fuhgeddabowditite...... Me: "Hey Vince, what's this rock." Vince: "That's sexstone." Me: "What is that?" Vince. "It's just a @%&#ing rock." unusual type of conglomerate called urbanite and then explain its rarity. esteemed journals, which referred to "Frgok". Funny rock; god only knows. I later learned this was similar to crapite. I've used the name "fornicite" for the same types of rocks. Early in April I found labeled specimens of white Cementite and black Roadite in my collection that my kids thought I should have. There is the classic Leaverite. I've also run into Yatelmeite and Xite for unknowns. I've also run into Yatelmeite and Xite for unknowns. A Wabbit Wock is a wock you whip at wabbits. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Erich Kern Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 9:21 PM To: ajs@frii.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names If someone on this list is making a file of the many creative names, would you please post it to the list in a few days. When we began I had no idea it would be this good. Cheers, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Silverstein" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names Then there's plain old... junkite. Often, with glare, dust, mud, and old eyes, you just can't be sure in the field if that chunk in your hand will tumble-polish nicely or not. After you get it home and wash it, maybe even tumble-grind it a little to remove the surface crude, you can decide if it's junkite or something better. Cheers, Alan Silverstein _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Jun 7 21:44:39 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Jun 7 21:43:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <005e01c68ab3$2623fe70$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <20060607183220.996A14D3E7@io.frii.com> <005e01c68ab3$2623fe70$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <4487AB37.4090607@verizon.net> Erich Kern wrote: > > > If someone on this list is making a file of the many creative names, would you please post it to > the list in a few days. When we began I had no idea it would be this good. > > Cheers, > Erich Oh what the heck... over the last few years, during the annual Franklin, NJ, digs at the Trotter Dump, visitors discovered foundations which had been made with Portland cement (I think) as well as crushed fines of calcite & willemite, as well as occasional chunks of hardystonite and esperite, etc... these were non-ore minerals and so were junk at the time, but now some of them are rare collectibles. Of course the concrete fluoresced, and it became quite a collectible phenomenon, appearing on the market as chunks and sliced slabs, especially for those hoping to find a tidbit of the rarer minerals within. We named this cool material "concretite." Don From ajs at frii.com Wed Jun 7 22:16:56 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Wed Jun 7 22:17:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <060720062052.14339.44873C9D000BF23500003803216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <20060608051656.4ACB34D3E7@io.frii.com> Pete et al, > Do you have the issue (date/year), or better, an online source, for > that Caltech alumni magazine article your referred to? It includes > some concepts that I'm not sure I've ever heard before, relating to > the early history of Earth's atmosphere and its climate. I searched > online and found an archive for this Caltech News magazine... The Caltech News is a newspaper format, more about campus and alumni events than just science, while the magazine is called "Engineering and Science". It's an excellent read, similar to Scientific American I suppose, although thinner, and all derived from Caltech research and lectures. It amazes me that they produce this quarterly(?) pub just for the Caltech community. I don't have the issue number handy or know if it's something you can find in any library or online -- I'll look later when I get a chance, and report back. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From rockhound at btinternet.com Wed Jun 7 23:25:19 2006 From: rockhound at btinternet.com (Neil A) Date: Wed Jun 7 23:26:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <4487798D.779B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Mudivugite - for all those of you digging out cavities of muddy material, this rare mineral is the stuff you throw away and therefore don't have in ytour collections. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From magnet at crocoite.com Wed Jun 7 23:46:52 2006 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Wed Jun 7 23:47:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for Tom Katonak Message-ID: <20060608064652.14448.qmail@webmachine101.com> Hi all I've been trying to get in touch with Tom Katonak (tkatonak @ comcast.net) who lives in New Mexico but I'm not getting a response. I haven't spoken to him for a while and want to know if there is anyone on the list that knows him and how I can get in touch. Regards Steve From flint...smith at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 8 00:00:24 2006 From: flint...smith at sbcglobal.net (Flint Smith) Date: Thu Jun 8 00:00:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <20060608051656.4ACB34D3E7@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <20060608070024.91936.qmail@web82502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I saw the Greenland-is-above-sea-level argument and have to agree. I just thought I'd point out that the sealevel decreasing is nonsense for another reason: basic physics.. Yes, ice is less dense than water, but it displaces the exact volume that it would if it were melted. Any excess volume (required to make the density right) would be the part of the iceberg that was originally above sea level. Flint > However, since ice > is less dense than water, if the North Pole melted, overall sea level > would decrease. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Thu Jun 8 03:18:48 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Thu Jun 8 03:18:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names References: <000301c68ab6$50f803f0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: <002c01c68ae4$ef1efd80$6400a8c0@hppav> Even some of us old hands pick up a piece of leaverite on occasion and bring it home or at least back to the vehicle, thiking it is something else. Then it becomes Chuckerite or Tosserite as in "Chuck Er Right There." Or Toss Er in the Trash. A so-so specimen collected along with others becomes Kidsboothite for our annual show. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Hanson" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 12:45 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names > Erich > > Here is my un-edited copies of the many "ites" > > LEAVERITE - as in leave er right where it lays. > > GAWKITE "GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT IS IS" > > sparkley-ite > > "dunnoite" as in don't-know-ite > meteorites which aren't...meteorwrong. > > Goshdurnite > "asphaltions" when you find them along a black top road. > > We also pick up a lot of "shuddalefterite" specimens. > There's also "beatsmeite" and "damifinoite" > > 'Gumballite' for spheroid minerals? > > the remote Gumbystan Valley....rare, not for sale" > > wutthuh****isthatite..... > My favorite has always been Yechinoids. For the fossil collector these are > fossil echinoids that have weathered just a little too long. > > label "Broccolite" and a piece of raw broccoli in it. > "Invisiblite" and "Invisiblite" on matrix and "Invisiblite" cluster > Pickerite and leaverite here. > > junkite. > hen highgrading at home, we call those "yardrocks". (Perhaps it should be > yardite?) Many of our yard rocks are what we call "almost-jasper" > a > nd then there's that really expensive material from New Jersey (Franklin, > maybe?) that no one can afford to own.... > > Fuhgeddabowditite...... > Me: "Hey Vince, what's this rock." > > Vince: "That's sexstone." > > Me: "What is that?" > > Vince. "It's just a @%&#ing rock." > unusual type of conglomerate called urbanite and then > explain its rarity. > esteemed journals, which referred to "Frgok". > > Funny rock; god only knows. > > I later learned this was similar to crapite. > I've used the name "fornicite" for the same types of rocks. > Early in April I found labeled specimens of white Cementite and black > Roadite in my collection that my kids thought I should have. > > There is the classic Leaverite. > > I've also run into Yatelmeite and Xite for unknowns. > I've also run into Yatelmeite and Xite for unknowns. > A Wabbit Wock is a wock you whip at wabbits. > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Erich Kern > Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 9:21 PM > To: ajs@frii.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names > > > > > > If someone on this list is making a file of the many creative names, would > you please post it to > the list in a few days. When we began I had no idea it would be this good. > > Cheers, > Erich > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Silverstein" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:32 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names > > > Then there's plain old... junkite. > > Often, with glare, dust, mud, and old eyes, you just can't be sure in the > field if that chunk in your hand will tumble-polish nicely or not. After > you > get it home and wash it, maybe even tumble-grind it a little to remove the > surface crude, you can decide if it's junkite or something better. > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jun 8 04:46:02 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jun 8 03:45:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <44876698.6080402@verizon.net> Message-ID: Always a pleasure, my friend ;-))) Axel (keeping it up :-P) -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens DonH Verzonden: donderdag 8 juni 2006 0:52 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth Axel Emmermann wrote: > Aren't we terribly of topic and dangerously close to getting less > a-political than is desirable ;-))) Friend Axel, Indeed I have been impressed by the pointed, focused, intelligent, rational debate on this topic. Upon its appearance, I said, "oh no, here we go." But instead we have seen the best this list has to offer. Keep it up, Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jun 8 05:42:21 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jun 8 05:42:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth Message-ID: <060820061242.8961.44881B2C0005F3E400002301216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Another factor is warming of the ocean water; thermal expansion makes sea level rise just from temperature increase, so that's also a significant contribution if average sea temperatures increase (as they have been), irrespective of how much ice melts. Pete -------------- Original message from Flint Smith : -------------- > I saw the Greenland-is-above-sea-level argument and have to agree. > > I just thought I'd point out that the sealevel decreasing is nonsense for > another reason: basic physics.. Yes, ice is less dense than water, but it > displaces the exact volume that it would if it were melted. Any excess volume > (required to make the density right) would be the part of the iceberg that was > originally above sea level. > > Flint > > > However, since ice > > is less dense than water, if the North Pole melted, overall sea level > > would decrease. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jun 8 06:21:14 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jun 8 06:21:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <060820061242.8961.44881B2C0005F3E400002301216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <060820061242.8961.44881B2C0005F3E400002301216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Sea level has been increasing about 2 mm/yr for the last 8000 years as the oceans warm up in the post glacial period. No change in this rate has been detected. BK On 6/8/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Another factor is warming of the ocean water; thermal expansion makes sea > level rise just from temperature increase, so that's also a significant > contribution if average sea temperatures increase (as they have been), > irrespective of how much ice melts. > > Pete > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jun 8 06:45:53 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jun 8 06:45:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <005201c68ab2$7f952390$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <000101c68a72$dc1fe360$47681540@D3JM7W21> <005201c68ab2$7f952390$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: Roger Pielke Sr from the Colorado Climate Center has a lot to say about models and other problems with the AGW hyposthesis. < http://climatesci.atmos.colostate.edu/category/climate-science-misconceptions/ > His writing style is a bit stiff to say the least. But he has a lot of discussion about urban heat islands and also points out that we should be looking at atmospheric heat content (enthalpy) not temperature. Hot dry air, like the Sahara contains less total energy than hot wet air like you find in Miami. This apparently is not handled in the models. BK On 6/8/06, Erich Kern wrote: > > > Hi Earl, > > Good then, and sorry I misunderstood what you'd said. You're right about a > good test of a model > is to run it backward to see if it comes up with verifiable numbers for, > say, temps and > min-max's in 1900 for major cites where accurate records had been kept. > This has been done with > some but not all models, and to my knowledge none of the models tested has > come close to a match > with recorded reality. > > One of the errors in the terrestrial temperature record is the 'urban heat > island effect' where > night time lows will be a few degrees higher at the airport of a major > city (all that runway > absorbs during the day and emits heat at night) than the temps in the > countryside. The satellite > temperature records taken since 1978 show much less warming than the > terrestrial records do for > this reason. > > Getting back to rocks and minerals, a few months ago I walked a mile into > an abandoned mine. > That entire tunnel was dug through solid dolomite. Imagine the enormous > carbon sink which is all > of the carbonate minerals in the world. Most of it sequestered from ever > entering the atmosphere > until the sun is a red giant. > > Cheers, > Erich > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Earl Verbeek" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > ; > Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:42 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth > > > > Erich Kern wrote: > > Respectfully responding to a post by Earl, science is not about > 'consensus' > or being 'even handed'. It is about verifiable phenomena. > ----------------------- > > No argument there! Hope I didn't give an impression to the contrary -- > I've > been arguing for years that consensus in science in no guarantee of truth, > and the publications in my field (geology) are full of examples. > Continental drift, for one: Everybody "knew" for decades that the > continents don't move around. We "knew" this because no mechanism for the > movement of continents had yet been identified or even imagined. And then > came those zebra stripes on the ocean floor (maps of magnetic polarity), > and > within years a whole new world opened up to us. > > One test of a computerized climate change model: run it backward and see > if > it can "predict" what's already been known to occur. This is not an easy > test to apply, but it's a useful concept at least. > > Cheers! Earl > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jun 8 07:04:17 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jun 8 07:04:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: References: <060820061242.8961.44881B2C0005F3E400002301216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: I just spotted this article on the snowball earth hypothesis: BK On 6/8/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Sea level has been increasing about 2 mm/yr for the last 8000 years as the > oceans warm up in the post glacial period. No change in this rate has been > detected. > > BK > > > On 6/8/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > > > Another factor is warming of the ocean water; thermal expansion makes > > sea level rise just from temperature increase, so that's also a significant > > contribution if average sea temperatures increase (as they have been), > > irrespective of how much ice melts. > > > > Pete > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jun 8 07:13:29 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jun 8 07:13:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Permian event Message-ID: Fox news is doing geology today, another article: BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 8 07:16:38 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Jun 8 07:16:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <009d01c68a62$49774860$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <20060608141638.98993.qmail@web34304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Julie Siebel wrote: > When highgrading at home, we call those "yardrocks". > (Perhaps it should be > yardite?) Many of our yard rocks are what we call > "almost-jasper" :D > > Julie > I have a slight variation. In my case it's "driveway rock", since I have a long gravel driveway that is the recipient of my castaways. Incidentally, it has become an educational tool- when my great-grandson walks over from his house, he's always looking at the rock in the driveway. If he sees something that doesn't match the white limestone he brings in in to me- "Hey Poppa, look what I found!" I then put it under the microscope and explain what it (really) is. Jim Daly __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From johnjold at comcast.net Thu Jun 8 07:53:51 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Thu Jun 8 07:54:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Stromatolites Message-ID: <9c25c59df8804bbc27006389370c3c7d@comcast.net> From todays Toronto Globe and Mail Australia's odd-shaped mounds actually fossils, scientists say SETH BORENSTEIN Associated Press Washington ? Odd-shaped mounds of dirt in Australia turn out to be fossils of the oldest life on Earth, created by billions of microbes more than three billion years ago, scientists say in a new report. And these mounds are exactly the type of life astrobiologists are looking for on Mars and elsewhere. A study published Thursday in the journal Nature gives the strongest evidence yet that the mounds dotting a large swath of western Australia are Earth's oldest fossils. The theory is that these are not merely dirt piles that formed randomly into odd shapes, but that ancient microbes burrowed in and built them. ?This is the pointy end of the fossil record; this is the first really compelling record,? said study lead author Abigail Allwood, a researcher at the Australian Centre for Astrobiology. ?It's an ancestor of life. If you think that all life arose on this one planet, perhaps this is where it started.? The mounds come in different shapes ? like egg cartons, swirls of frosting on cupcakes or waves on the ocean. They are called stromatolites and have been studied for a long time, but the big question has been if they were once teeming with life. Ms. Allwood's research, which included examining thousands of the mounds and grouping them into seven subtypes, is the most comprehensive and compelling yet to say the answer is yes, according to a top expert not on her team.?It is the best bet for the best evidence of the oldest life on Earth,? said Bruce Runnegar, director of the NASA Astrobiology Institute in Moffett Field, Calif. ?These are too complicated to be attributed to non-biological processes ? but we don't know that for a fact.? Ms. Allwood said her study made the case for life solidly by looking at how the stromatolites fit with the rock formations around them, with each other, and what would have been happening on Earth at that time. One of the clinchers was putting them in seven repeating subtypes, which indicates that they weren't random. ?It's just the sheer abundance of material and to be able to put it all in context,? Ms. Allwood said. Mr. Runnegar, who has examined the mounds in western Australian several times said the first time he saw them ? some of which jut out from hills at eye-level ? he experienced an otherworldly feeling. In a similar situation 10 years ago, scientists at NASA said they found evidence of fossilized microbial life in a Martian meteorite. Those assertions have been sharply disputed. One of the chief skeptics of the Martian meteorite claims, Ralph Harvey, a geology professor at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, said he is far more inclined to believe that the Australian mounds were once alive. The key difference, Mr. Harvey said, is that Mars scientists were looking for evidence of life on ?a potentially dead planet,? which requires extraordinary proof. Less evidence, he said is needed for Ms. Allwood's assertions, because ?we already know that life has been on Earth for a very, very long time; all we're trying to do is push it further back.? From johnjold at comcast.net Thu Jun 8 08:03:33 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Thu Jun 8 08:03:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dwarf German dinosaur Message-ID: Also in the Toronto Globe and Mail today 'Dwarf' dinosaur not that small MALCOLM RITTER Associated Press New York ? When you think dinosaurs, you think big. German scientists, however, say they have discovered a species that evolved into a dwarf, ending up only about one-third the size of its closest known relatives. The four-legged plant-eater was no lap dog: It measured about six metres from its snout to the tip of its long tail and it weighed about a tonne. Next to its close evolutionary cousin Camarasaurus ? a well-known beast that stretched some 18 metres long, this guy was a runt. What happened? The researchers say it's a case of island dwarfism, the tendency of big species to shrink over time when they find themselves on an island. The phenomenon is well-known among mammals, as with fossil elephants only about one metre tall found in Sicily and elsewhere. Scientists think that in an environment of limited resources, smaller body size becomes an advantage, so captive populations shrink in body size over long periods of time. The new creature is the best documented case of island dwarfism among dinosaurs, said P. Martin Sander, a paleontologist at the University of Bonn and lead author of a report in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature. The creature, dubbed Europasaurus holgeri, lived 154 million years ago in what is now northern Germany. At that time, the region was covered by shallow seas and the creature evidently lived on an island, Mr. Sander said. It is not clear whether a bigger ancestor reached the island from elsewhere and founded a colony, or an existing population found itself isolated by rising sea levels, he said. Mr. Sander, who specializes in the microscopic structure of bone, got his first look at the fossils in 2003 after an amateur bone-hunter found them in a quarry. Mr. Sander and other scientists initially thought they were from juvenile animals, but details of the bone structure showed they came from adults. The scientists eventually realized that they had remains from more than 11 animals of varying ages, including at least one fully grown adult. The bone analysis also showed that Europasaurus grew more slowly than bigger dinosaurs. Its small size was a normal growth pattern for the species and not the result of disease, Mr. Sander said. That has been a point of contention in trying to explain the so-called hobbits of Indonesia, fossil remains that have been interpreted as revealing that a dwarf species of humans lived on a remote island thousands of years ago. Mark Norell, a dinosaur expert at the American Museum of Natural History, said island dwarfism had been talked about for the hobbits and many animals, and ?to find it in dinosaurs is pretty neat.? The new Nature paper presents the best case for the phenomenon in a dinosaur, he said. Jeffrey Wilson, assistant professor of geological sciences at the University of Michigan, called the discovery exciting, and not just for the dwarfism. He said it is the best specimen from the time period in Europe to include a skull, vertebrae and limb bones from the same individuals. That tells us what it looked like,? he said. From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Jun 8 08:05:53 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Jun 8 08:06:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Stromatolites References: <9c25c59df8804bbc27006389370c3c7d@comcast.net> Message-ID: <064801c68b0d$09b8cea0$c0089444@remains> and here's a photo of these incredible formation....http://www.sweetstall.com/acatalog/mounds.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Joldersma" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: "John Joldersma" Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 8:53 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian Stromatolites > From todays Toronto Globe and Mail > Australia's odd-shaped mounds actually fossils, scientists say > > SETH BORENSTEIN > > Associated Press > > Washington ? Odd-shaped mounds of dirt in Australia turn out to be fossils > of the oldest life on Earth, created by billions of microbes more than > three billion years ago, scientists say in a new report. And these mounds > are exactly the type of life astrobiologists are looking for on Mars and > elsewhere. > A study published Thursday in the journal Nature gives the strongest > evidence yet that the mounds dotting a large swath of western Australia > are Earth's oldest fossils. The theory is that these are not merely dirt > piles that formed randomly into odd shapes, but that ancient microbes > burrowed in and built them. ?This is the pointy end of the fossil record; > this is the first really compelling record,? said study lead author > Abigail Allwood, a researcher at the Australian Centre for Astrobiology. > ?It's an ancestor of life. If you think that all life arose on this one > planet, perhaps this is where it started.? The mounds come in different > shapes ? like egg cartons, swirls of frosting on cupcakes or waves on the > ocean. They are called stromatolites and have been studied for a long > time, but the big question has been if they were once teeming with life. > Ms. Allwood's research, which included examining thousands of the mounds > and grouping them into seven subtypes, is the most comprehensive and > compelling yet to say the answer is yes, according to a top expert not on > her team.?It is the best bet for the best evidence of the oldest life on > Earth,? said Bruce Runnegar, director of the NASA Astrobiology Institute > in Moffett Field, Calif. ?These are too complicated to be attributed to > non-biological processes ? but we don't know that for a fact.? Ms. > Allwood said her study made the case for life solidly by looking at how > the stromatolites fit with the rock formations around them, with each > other, and what would have been happening on Earth at that time. One of > the clinchers was putting them in seven repeating subtypes, which > indicates that they weren't random. ?It's just the sheer abundance of > material and to be able to put it all in context,? Ms. Allwood said. > Mr. Runnegar, who has examined the mounds in western Australian several > times said the first time he saw them ? some of which jut out from hills > at eye-level ? he experienced an otherworldly feeling. In a similar > situation 10 years ago, scientists at NASA said they found evidence of > fossilized microbial life in a Martian meteorite. Those assertions have > been sharply disputed. One of the chief skeptics of the Martian meteorite > claims, Ralph Harvey, a geology professor at Case Western Reserve > University in Cleveland, said he is far more inclined to believe that the > Australian mounds were once alive. The key difference, Mr. Harvey said, > is that Mars scientists were looking for evidence of life on ?a > potentially dead planet,? which requires extraordinary proof. Less > evidence, he said is needed for Ms. Allwood's assertions, because ?we > already know that life has been on Earth for a very, very long time; all > we're trying to do is push it further back.? > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Jun 8 09:38:03 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Jun 8 09:38:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <005201c68ab2$7f952390$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <010a01c68b19$cdc34e90$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Erich and Earl and all: First I have to agree with the others... When this topic was first broached I thought it would become one of those threads that I just delete without reading. Instead the topic grew in thought and scientific depth/complexity without any sign of resorting to pontificating or insults. Bravo! I love it! The two cents opinion I have to add is on the notion of models going forward and backward. I have written quite a few computer models over the years. In every model I've written or been involved with there are quite a few mathematical formulas converted into code. By the nature of code; a formula can not be run backwards. Yes, another strand of formula can be written that reverses the logic or provides for formula variations; but bear in mind that these require additional logic for program control. Certain types of calculations just don't reverse; similar types of calculations can be devised that simulate reversing the formula, but it is not a calculation reversal (I'm thinking of statistic calculations as I write this). For a computer model to work forwards and backwards, a programmer must write both directions into the model. This means there are really two models. One for forward calculations and one for reversing... In my opinion it takes mighty careful and rigorous planning and design to make two programs that truly work identically in both directions. Not that it can't be done, I just have my doubts it will be done. The more complex the model, the more I doubt it. Did I mention how complex modeling Earth's climate must be? This doesn't mean that I do not believe computer models work. I do or I wouldn't have written or worked on so many... It's just that I don't believe they can be run backwards on request. I also believe that many people write models to expand a tested calculation to a more powerful means of implementing the calculation. This means that most models are very planar. They operate within a narrow set of expectations with deviations or flyers discarded. My apologies for wandering so far off topic, but I felt some clarification about computer models was warranted. There are organizations and groups who sling the term "computer model" around in a discussion and far too many people accept the computer model as right without questioning. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Erich Kern Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 12:18 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth Hi Earl, Good then, and sorry I misunderstood what you'd said. You're right about a good test of a model is to run it backward to see if it comes up with verifiable numbers for, say, temps and min-max's in 1900 for major cites where accurate records had been kept. This has been done with some but not all models, and to my knowledge none of the models tested has come close to a match with recorded reality. One of the errors in the terrestrial temperature record is the 'urban heat island effect' where night time lows will be a few degrees higher at the airport of a major city (all that runway absorbs during the day and emits heat at night) than the temps in the countryside. The satellite temperature records taken since 1978 show much less warming than the terrestrial records do for this reason. Getting back to rocks and minerals, a few months ago I walked a mile into an abandoned mine. That entire tunnel was dug through solid dolomite. Imagine the enormous carbon sink which is all of the carbonate minerals in the world. Most of it sequestered from ever entering the atmosphere until the sun is a red giant. Cheers, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Verbeek" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" ; Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:42 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth Erich Kern wrote: Respectfully responding to a post by Earl, science is not about 'consensus' or being 'even handed'. It is about verifiable phenomena. ----------------------- No argument there! Hope I didn't give an impression to the contrary -- I've been arguing for years that consensus in science in no guarantee of truth, and the publications in my field (geology) are full of examples. Continental drift, for one: Everybody "knew" for decades that the continents don't move around. We "knew" this because no mechanism for the movement of continents had yet been identified or even imagined. And then came those zebra stripes on the ocean floor (maps of magnetic polarity), and within years a whole new world opened up to us. One test of a computerized climate change model: run it backward and see if it can "predict" what's already been known to occur. This is not an easy test to apply, but it's a useful concept at least. Cheers! Earl _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Jun 8 10:10:56 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Jun 8 10:10:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield mine in Virginia USA Message-ID: <011401c68b1d$bf61d4d0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> All: In case you didn't know the Morefield mine is for sale. http://www.mininglawinternational.com/properties.html#second (page down) I do not know the reasons, but the owners are operating on a reduced schedule as they prepare to sell the place and move. Their website http://www.toteshows.com/morefield.html lists June 17th as the final day for the summer but a sign at the mine says they will be open till July 2nd. Still it may be best to call before going just to be sure. I and my 14 year old son went with the RGMS (Richmond Gem and Mineral Society) on their outing this past weekend. We entered the mine after a day of hard rain and so instead of digging we spent quite a bit of time crawling with our noses close to the dirt. I regret that I still haven't gone through my bucket yet. I do have the obvious amazonite and several 10-15 gram pieces of amethyst. My son did go through his bucket thoroughly. He spent most of his time searching for garnet and along the way picked up some amethyst and a small columbite fragment. I haven't looked through his garnet yet; I expect most of the pieces will be the salted shards from long ago, but one of the RGMS members found a fair sized piece of etched spessartine which is probably native. Another RGMS member found a two inch (50mm) piece of beryl. The owner told me that I could dig along the treeline wall which has been off limits for many years. Since most of the rockhound area of the quarry has been dug and redug many times, this was the first chance to get at untouched mine dump in many years. I dug a fair sized pit at the wall edge and then collapsed the overhang when I was finished. I think I'll go wash and look through that bucket now. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Jun 8 10:24:32 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Jun 8 10:24:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield mine in Virginia USA In-Reply-To: <011401c68b1d$bf61d4d0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <011401c68b1d$bf61d4d0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: Ted, Is it possible that a conglomerate of Rock and Mineral Clubs in and around the D.C., Virginia, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, etc., could go in and make a group purchase, along with maybe a grant from a sympathetic organization, AFMS, or similar, and keep it open? I remember, with a smile on my face sorting through materials there. Terrie From JHODEL at wvdep.org Wed Jun 7 12:47:30 2006 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Thu Jun 8 10:45:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Climatology, and sparkleyite locations Message-ID: Hi all: Erich, J Bryan, have you guys actually seen the movie, or are you just supplying everyone with your pre-judgement? I'm personally looking forward to seeing the movie, which opens in theaters next Friday according to the ads I've heard. From all reports it is replete with more charts and graphs and photos and real evidence than you can shake a stick at. Just because it is hosted by Al Gore is no reason to reject the information provided. Would you refuse a tetanus vaccination after the flood just because it came from a volunteer medico who was also a registered Democrat wearing an Al Gore for President button? Regarding global warming, whether the current increase in global warming is caused by mankind's activities or not, if the tendency can be reversed or slowed by altering man's activity, I think it behooves us to take whatever actions we can in that direction, so that our great cities, most all on coastlines, don't all suffer the fate of New Orleans. Which was a fine town to visit or live in a year ago, and is not now. Not to mention the billions of folks who live in the lowest part of the land masses, who stand to be flooded out, and the ports no longer available for shipping, and the oil rigs floating away after storms, and the cost of building flood walls around DC and NY city. Every great environmental improvement of our recent past has been greeted with cries of outrageous costs, and protestation of the lack of a proven need for cleaning up the air or the water. In every case, [every case!!] the costs have turned out to be tiny fractions of the outrageous forecasts from affected industries, and the resultant health benefits obvious to any disinterested observer. On a different and more fun topic, I really like the term sparkleyite, it's sort of the opposite of leaverite, something so pretty you have to take it home even tho you aren't sure what it is. Leaverites, on the other hand, could be valuable and rare sulfide minerals, but are too ugly to fit in the truck! One of the best things about collecting in central/northern KY and southern IN and OH are the many sparkleyite containing geodes. You never get skunked for sparkleyite! Everybody, Keep on Rockin' !! JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jun 8 11:17:04 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jun 8 11:17:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Climatology, and sparkleyite locations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Would you refuse a tetanus vaccination after the flood just because it > came from a volunteer medico who was also a registered Democrat wearing > an Al Gore for President button? But a tetanus vaccination is of proven value, would I pay a pyrimid power fellow to immunize me from Tetanus is a better question. And the answer to that is obvious. I'm not sending $40 into Al Gore's pocket. Regarding global warming, whether the current increase in global > warming is caused by mankind's activities or not, if the tendency can be > reversed or slowed by altering man's activity, I think it behooves us to > take whatever actions we can in that direction, so that our great > cities, most all on coastlines, don't all suffer the fate of New > Orleans. Which was a fine town to visit or live in a year ago, and is > not now. *And what does that have to do with GW? There is a 50 year Atlantic hurricane cycle and we are entering the 20 year active part of the cycle.* * * ** Not to mention the billions of folks who live in the lowest part of the land masses, who stand to be flooded out, and the ports no longer available for shipping, and the oil rigs floating away after storms, and the cost of building flood walls around DC and NY city. *There is no proof of any sea level rise other than the 2 mm/yr increase that has been going on for the last 8000 years. * Every great environmental improvement of our recent past has been greeted with cries of outrageous costs, and protestation of the lack of a proven need for cleaning up the air or the water. In every case, [every case!!] the costs have turned out to be tiny fractions of the outrageous forecasts from affected industries, and the resultant health benefits obvious to any disinterested observer. *Huh? What about Europe and Kyoto, not one country has even come close to meeting the Kyoto limits because of societal costs. And Kyoto would have produced no measurable effect on GW. * --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jun 8 11:25:27 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jun 8 11:25:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <010a01c68b19$cdc34e90$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <005201c68ab2$7f952390$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> <010a01c68b19$cdc34e90$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: Yes but computer models are loaded with the initial boundary conditions for the starting point of the model run. If you loaded in the data set for 1900 you should be able to replicate climate changes from that point forward. And none of these models come close to doing that. And they have tried to do that too. At this point no one has a good model, and whether it is even possible to produce one with current computer power is questionable. BK On 08 Jun 2006 09:38:03 -0700, Ted Kowalski wrote: > > Erich and Earl and all: > First I have to agree with the others... When this topic was first > broached > I thought it would become one of those threads that I just delete without > reading. Instead the topic grew in thought and scientific depth/complexity > without any sign of resorting to pontificating or insults. Bravo! I love > it! > > The two cents opinion I have to add is on the notion of models going > forward > and backward. > > I have written quite a few computer models over the years. In every model > I've written or been involved with there are quite a few mathematical > formulas converted into code. By the nature of code; a formula can not be > run backwards. > > Yes, another strand of formula can be written that reverses the logic or > provides for formula variations; but bear in mind that these require > additional logic for program control. Certain types of calculations just > don't reverse; similar types of calculations can be devised that simulate > reversing the formula, but it is not a calculation reversal (I'm thinking > of > statistic calculations as I write this). > > For a computer model to work forwards and backwards, a programmer must > write > both directions into the model. This means there are really two models. > One > for forward calculations and one for reversing... In my opinion it takes > mighty careful and rigorous planning and design to make two programs that > truly work identically in both directions. Not that it can't be done, I > just > have my doubts it will be done. The more complex the model, the more I > doubt > it. Did I mention how complex modeling Earth's climate must be? > > This doesn't mean that I do not believe computer models work. I do or I > wouldn't have written or worked on so many... It's just that I don't > believe > they can be run backwards on request. I also believe that many people > write > models to expand a tested calculation to a more powerful means of > implementing the calculation. This means that most models are very planar. > They operate within a narrow set of expectations with deviations or flyers > discarded. > > My apologies for wandering so far off topic, but I felt some clarification > about computer models was warranted. There are organizations and groups > who > sling the term "computer model" around in a discussion and far too many > people accept the computer model as right without questioning. > > Ted Kowalski > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Erich Kern > Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 12:18 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth > > > Hi Earl, > > Good then, and sorry I misunderstood what you'd said. You're right about a > good test of a model > is to run it backward to see if it comes up with verifiable numbers for, > say, temps and > min-max's in 1900 for major cites where accurate records had been kept. > This > has been done with > some but not all models, and to my knowledge none of the models tested has > come close to a match > with recorded reality. > > One of the errors in the terrestrial temperature record is the 'urban heat > island effect' where > night time lows will be a few degrees higher at the airport of a major > city > (all that runway > absorbs during the day and emits heat at night) than the temps in the > countryside. The satellite > temperature records taken since 1978 show much less warming than the > terrestrial records do for > this reason. > > Getting back to rocks and minerals, a few months ago I walked a mile into > an > abandoned mine. > That entire tunnel was dug through solid dolomite. Imagine the enormous > carbon sink which is all > of the carbonate minerals in the world. Most of it sequestered from ever > entering the atmosphere > until the sun is a red giant. > > Cheers, > Erich > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Earl Verbeek" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > ; > Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 1:42 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth > > > > Erich Kern wrote: > > Respectfully responding to a post by Earl, science is not about > 'consensus' > or being 'even handed'. It is about verifiable phenomena. > ----------------------- > > No argument there! Hope I didn't give an impression to the contrary -- > I've > been arguing for years that consensus in science in no guarantee of truth, > and the publications in my field (geology) are full of examples. > Continental drift, for one: Everybody "knew" for decades that the > continents don't move around. We "knew" this because no mechanism for the > movement of continents had yet been identified or even imagined. And then > came those zebra stripes on the ocean floor (maps of magnetic polarity), > and > within years a whole new world opened up to us. > > One test of a computerized climate change model: run it backward and see > if > it can "predict" what's already been known to occur. This is not an easy > test to apply, but it's a useful concept at least. > > Cheers! Earl > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jun 8 11:35:39 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jun 8 11:35:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield mine in Virginia USA In-Reply-To: References: <011401c68b1d$bf61d4d0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <7aac8040606081135x1b5d79aey405dd5edb5ac717a@mail.gmail.com> Ted, Teresa, I am a member of the MAGMA club and we just started a Land Acquisition Fund for this type of thing. Since it is just started, we don't have a whole lot in the treasury, but we are working on it. I am not familiar with any other clubs on the East Coast doing something like this, if there are, let me know. Here is the info (if you'd like to donate), http://www.wncrocks.com/magma/magmadonationpage.htm. Or you can buy a specimen that was donated for this cause, http://www.wncrocks.com/forsale/forsale.htm. Drew On 6/8/06, Teresa Masters wrote: > > Ted, > Is it possible that a conglomerate of Rock and Mineral Clubs in and > around the D.C., Virginia, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, etc., > could go in and make a group purchase, along with maybe a grant from > a sympathetic organization, AFMS, or similar, and keep it open? > > I remember, with a smile on my face sorting through materials there. > Terrie > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Thu Jun 8 11:56:31 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Thu Jun 8 11:56:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Debate Global Warming on 'Chicago Tonight' Message-ID: <000a01c68b2d$42562990$94f8f604@TheBlackAdder> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ TONIGHT AT 7:00: Heartland President to Debate Global Warming on Chicago Tonight Joseph L. Bast, president and CEO of The Heartland Institute, will debate global warming and Al Gore's new film, An Inconvenient Truth, with Barry Machett of the Environmental Law and Policy Center on WTTW's Chicago Tonight. The program, hosted by Carol Marin, will air tonight, Wednesday, June 7 at 7:00 p.m. CST on WTTW11, Chicago's public television station. According to the station's Web site, the program will also air at 1:10 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. on Thursday, June 8. The audio will be available in the Audio Center on Heartland's Web site at http://www.heartland.org by week's end. Please tune in and show your appreciation for what will arguably be the first balanced discussion of the issue ever hosted by a Chicago television station. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 19 South LaSalle Street #903 * Chicago, IL 60603 312/377-4000 phone * 312/377-5000 fax * http://www.heartland.org From efkern at earthlink.net Thu Jun 8 12:02:55 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Thu Jun 8 12:02:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Climatology, and sparkleyite locations References: Message-ID: <001001c68b2e$28ddf870$94f8f604@TheBlackAdder> Hi Y'all, JR, it has nothing to do with political affiliation. If AlGore was a Republican, my opinion that he's The Great Dissembler and an articulate fool wouldn't change. After all, he did invent the internet, and the film & book "Love Story" was modeled on his romance with Tipper....wasn't it? Cheers, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.R. Hodel" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 12:47 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Climatology, and sparkleyite locations Hi all: Erich, J Bryan, have you guys actually seen the movie, or are you just supplying everyone with your pre-judgement? I'm personally looking forward to seeing the movie, which opens in theaters next Friday according to the ads I've heard. From all reports it is replete with more charts and graphs and photos and real evidence than you can shake a stick at. Just because it is hosted by Al Gore is no reason to reject the information provided. Would you refuse a tetanus vaccination after the flood just because it came from a volunteer medico who was also a registered Democrat wearing an Al Gore for President button? Regarding global warming, whether the current increase in global warming is caused by mankind's activities or not, if the tendency can be reversed or slowed by altering man's activity, I think it behooves us to take whatever actions we can in that direction, so that our great cities, most all on coastlines, don't all suffer the fate of New Orleans. Which was a fine town to visit or live in a year ago, and is not now. Not to mention the billions of folks who live in the lowest part of the land masses, who stand to be flooded out, and the ports no longer available for shipping, and the oil rigs floating away after storms, and the cost of building flood walls around DC and NY city. Every great environmental improvement of our recent past has been greeted with cries of outrageous costs, and protestation of the lack of a proven need for cleaning up the air or the water. In every case, [every case!!] the costs have turned out to be tiny fractions of the outrageous forecasts from affected industries, and the resultant health benefits obvious to any disinterested observer. On a different and more fun topic, I really like the term sparkleyite, it's sort of the opposite of leaverite, something so pretty you have to take it home even tho you aren't sure what it is. Leaverites, on the other hand, could be valuable and rare sulfide minerals, but are too ugly to fit in the truck! One of the best things about collecting in central/northern KY and southern IN and OH are the many sparkleyite containing geodes. You never get skunked for sparkleyite! Everybody, Keep on Rockin' !! JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From ajs at frii.com Thu Jun 8 12:42:42 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Jun 8 12:42:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Red Earth, White Earth, Green Earth, Black Earth Message-ID: <20060608194242.D2A344D3E7@io.frii.com> The aforementioned article in the Caltech alumni magazine, Engineering and Science, can be found here: http://pr.caltech.edu/periodicals/EandS/articles/LXVIII4/Kirschvinksingles.pdf It's a 1.02 Mb PDF. I'm pleased to see they put the whole thing on the public web for your reading pleasure. FYI here's the opening text... Oxygen drives the biosphere. We can't live without it. But most scientists now agree that there was no free oxygen in the air during the earliest portion of Earth's history. The first oxygen came from a group of bacteria. The cyanobacteria -- that had developed a new method of photosynthesis. Their method was so efficient that they spread rapidly throughout the oceans of the world and overtook their less-efficient predecessors. But their success may have created a catastrophic climate disaster that plunged Earth into a global deep freeze for tens of millions of years and almost wiped out life on the planet forever. Oxygen drives the biosphere. We can't live without it. But most scientists now agree that there was no free oxygen in the air during the earliest portion of Earth's history. The first oxygen came from a group of bacteria -- the cyanobacteria -- that had developed a new method of photosynthesis. Their method was so efficient that they spread rapidly throughout the oceans of the world and overtook their less-efficient predecessors. But their success may have created a catastrophic climate disaster that plunged Earth into a global deep freeze for tens of millions of years and almost wiped out life on the planet forever... The parent site is: http://pr.caltech.edu/periodicals/EandS/ Cheers, Alan Silverstein From albalmer at att.net Thu Jun 8 13:17:55 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jun 8 13:17:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield mine in Virginia USA In-Reply-To: <011401c68b1d$bf61d4d0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <011401c68b1d$bf61d4d0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <3m0h82ldsgj0isb43tvai1333q141l7hn7@4ax.com> On 08 Jun 2006 10:10:56 -0700 Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:04:54 -0400, "Ted Kowalski" wrote: >All: >In case you didn't know the Morefield mine is for sale. >http://www.mininglawinternational.com/properties.html#second (page down) Ted, thank you for the first rockhounding post in days ;-) Does anyone have a notion of what a property like this would sell for? Is it really within reach of an organization like MAGMA? I'm a long way from Virginia, but the Morefield is on my list of places to visit someday. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jun 8 13:34:20 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jun 8 13:34:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield mine in Virginia USA In-Reply-To: <3m0h82ldsgj0isb43tvai1333q141l7hn7@4ax.com> References: <011401c68b1d$bf61d4d0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <3m0h82ldsgj0isb43tvai1333q141l7hn7@4ax.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040606081334h2b0738fblafe7c6c86d2e91d5@mail.gmail.com> Al, MAGMA just began their Land Acquisition Program, so I am sure the price is WAY over what MAGMA could do. Drew On 6/8/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On 08 Jun 2006 10:10:56 -0700 Thu, 8 Jun 2006 13:04:54 -0400, "Ted > Kowalski" wrote: > > >All: > >In case you didn't know the Morefield mine is for sale. > >http://www.mininglawinternational.com/properties.html#second (page down) > > Ted, thank you for the first rockhounding post in days ;-) > > Does anyone have a notion of what a property like this would sell for? > Is it really within reach of an organization like MAGMA? > > I'm a long way from Virginia, but the Morefield is on my list of > places to visit someday. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bg at his.com Thu Jun 8 14:55:44 2006 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Thu Jun 8 14:55:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield mine in Virginia USA In-Reply-To: <011401c68b1d$bf61d4d0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <011401c68b1d$bf61d4d0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <1f9177f68509cbf7586eb2ba11b5e256@his.com> On Jun 8, 2006, at 1:10 PM, Ted Kowalski wrote: > All: > In case you didn't know the Morefield mine is for sale. > http://www.mininglawinternational.com/properties.html#second (page > down) > > I do not know the reasons, but the owners are operating on a reduced > schedule as they prepare to sell the place and move. Their website > http://www.toteshows.com/morefield.html lists June 17th as the final > day for > the summer but a sign at the mine says they will be open till July 2nd. > Still it may be best to call before going just to be sure. > the website says: Fall Season First Saturday open to the public September 16, 2006 Open to the public on Saturdays Only 9:30am - 4:30pm for digging. Store closes at 5:00PM Tuesday - Friday = By Reservation Only Generally the schools come in during the week days Last Saturday open to the public before closing for the winter Saturday - December 2, 2006 cathy --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Jun 8 14:57:44 2006 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Jun 8 14:57:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Specimen boxes References: <200606070102.k5711rik014543@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003901c68b46$9309c360$6701a8c0@rock3> Lawrence, I don't think there is any hard and fast rule about how you fold up your fold up boxes. Usually the dealers want them the shiny surface on the inside of the box because the shiny surface is supposed to draw customers better than the non shiny surface. What ever way you choose it would probably be best to stick with the same method for all of your boxes. Fold up boxes are good for housing cheap specimens. Over time, the paper in them tends to yellow but the same is true for the more expensive fiberboard paper boxes that have lids and cotton pads in them. A lot of what you store your specimens in should be based on what you are trying to achieve. If you are trying to sell your specimens retail, you should put the specimen in the more expensive fiberboard white cotton filled boxes. The specimens look a lot better in them and have proven their worth in the retail sales venue. If you are wholesaling specimens, and the specimens are mostly all inexpensive, then you may well want to use exclusively the cheap fold up boxes. If you are a collector you should consider using the more expensive fiberboard white boxes with cotton pads as a minimum kind of storage if you don't want to upgrade to clear plastic boxes of some kind of good specimen cabinets with individual felt lined drawers with wooden dividers. If the specimens don't look important, they stand a higher chance of being thrown away or sold for a tiny fraction of their worth when you die. If you die before disposing of your specimens, the person who ends up with them almost always know very little about them and will usually not make good decisions about what to do with them. Rock Currier From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Jun 8 15:59:27 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Jun 8 15:59:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield mine in Virginia USA In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606081135x1b5d79aey405dd5edb5ac717a@mail.gmail.com> References: <011401c68b1d$bf61d4d0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <7aac8040606081135x1b5d79aey405dd5edb5ac717a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Drew, Please do check AFMS. I cannot speak for them, but that would be a very nice hand in hand gesture. I will check your links later, today I am dealing with a birthday and having very mixed emotions. Terrie From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Jun 8 16:42:12 2006 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Jun 8 16:42:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The erg and the arg as units of energy used to collect speicmens.` References: <200606071452.k57EqNgK028942@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003f01c68b55$2abd7c20$6701a8c0@rock3> Collecting minerals by breaking rocks requires work that can be quantified by a unit of work called the erg. Breaking rocks without finding any minerals is work that is best describes by the unit of work called the arg. Rock From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Jun 8 17:55:51 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Jun 8 17:53:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The erg and the arg as units of energy used to collect speicmens.` References: <200606071452.k57EqNgK028942@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <003f01c68b55$2abd7c20$6701a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <4488C66D.5E43@Tomaszewski.net> Rock Currier wrote: > > Collecting minerals by breaking rocks requires work that can be quantified > by a unit of work called the erg. > > Breaking rocks without finding any minerals is work that is best describes > by the unit of work called the arg. > > Rock And the amount of energy it takes to actually get into the field where there are rocis to break is measured in urges. Kreigh From gene at fossilnut.com Thu Jun 8 19:20:17 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Thu Jun 8 19:20:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Climatology, and sparkleyite locations References: Message-ID: <005401c68b6b$405a0240$6400a8c0@hppav> While I too may look forward to seeing the movie, it does not mean that I will necessarily accept all that it has to say, nor will I accept an arguement, merely because it is accompanied by data and charts. The fact is that there are serious questions about the science of the "science of GW". When we undertook to reduce atmospheric pollution in the US, we were armed with clear evidence that the priority pollutants were harming the health of many people. Note this was not a suspicion, or a future prediction. It was a fact that the air quality in many parts of the US had already deteriorated and was making people sick. In fact it was a cost / benefit calculation based on reducing existing negative impacts of pollution that was used to justify the cost of the control technologies. As for the predicted costs, I can categorically state that at least one of the so called costs has exceeded predictions. This is the one that justified ultra low sulfur diesel regulations. Not that it has not been worth it, just that EPA was off in the prediction. In the end the amount of hydrogen needed to get to the ultra low levels rises in what appears to be an exponential function, even with improved technologies. Since this is the only one I am very familar with, it makes it 1 out of 1 against your statement as far as I am concerned. Ths cost has been added, with profit, to the fuel we buy and that which is bought by those who transport the goods we all depend on for daily life. Finally I question which is wiser, trying to prevent climate change or learning and planning to adapt to it, even if you are also trying to minimize any contribution you may be making to accelerating the change in the first place. If geology has taught us anything it is that change is the nature of the earth. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.R. Hodel" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 3:47 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Climatology, and sparkleyite locations > Hi all: > > Erich, J Bryan, have you guys actually seen the movie, or are you just > supplying everyone with your pre-judgement? I'm personally looking > forward to seeing the movie, which opens in theaters next Friday > according to the ads I've heard. From all reports it is replete with > more charts and graphs and photos and real evidence than you can shake a > stick at. Just because it is hosted by Al Gore is no reason to reject > the information provided. > > Would you refuse a tetanus vaccination after the flood just because it > came from a volunteer medico who was also a registered Democrat wearing > an Al Gore for President button? > > Regarding global warming, whether the current increase in global > warming is caused by mankind's activities or not, if the tendency can be > reversed or slowed by altering man's activity, I think it behooves us to > take whatever actions we can in that direction, so that our great > cities, most all on coastlines, don't all suffer the fate of New > Orleans. Which was a fine town to visit or live in a year ago, and is > not now. > > Not to mention the billions of folks who live in the lowest part of the > land masses, who stand to be flooded out, and the ports no longer > available for shipping, and the oil rigs floating away after storms, and > the cost of building flood walls around DC and NY city. > > Every great environmental improvement of our recent past has been > greeted with cries of outrageous costs, and protestation of the lack of > a proven need for cleaning up the air or the water. In every case, > [every case!!] the costs have turned out to be tiny fractions of the > outrageous forecasts from affected industries, and the resultant health > benefits obvious to any disinterested observer. > > On a different and more fun topic, I really like the term sparkleyite, > it's sort of the opposite of leaverite, something so pretty you have to > take it home even tho you aren't sure what it is. Leaverites, on the > other hand, could be valuable and rare sulfide minerals, but are too > ugly to fit in the truck! > > One of the best things about collecting in central/northern KY and > southern IN and OH are the many sparkleyite containing geodes. You > never get skunked for sparkleyite! > > Everybody, > Keep on Rockin' !! > > JR > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From folmstead at rcn.com Thu Jun 8 19:33:52 2006 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Thu Jun 8 19:34:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Morefield Gem Mine Message-ID: <4488DE10.4040305@rcn.com> http://www.toteshows.com/morefield.html I see on the web site for Morefield Mine that there is a SUMMER ( to June 16 ) AND and an FALL session...for 2006. ( ...was going to CLOSE permanently in June 2006 ) Glad to see will be open longer...... How long - not sure..... GeorgiaO . --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Jun 8 20:22:15 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Jun 8 20:22:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The erg and the arg as units of energy used to collect speicmens.` In-Reply-To: <4488C66D.5E43@Tomaszewski.net> References: <200606071452.k57EqNgK028942@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <003f01c68b55$2abd7c20$6701a8c0@rock3> <4488C66D.5E43@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <898798FC-839E-45DC-8965-50FA91888861@cox.net> Kreigh, Pardon me, the desire to go is the urge, the energy once there is the surge. Terrie From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Jun 8 20:24:29 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Jun 8 20:24:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Glendon pyrophyllite quarry North Carolina Message-ID: <005b01c68b73$e91894c0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> OK list: First in response to the Morefield $$$ questions I sent an email to the owner requesting his asking price. I've been under the weather more than I like to admit the last few years. Nothing serious or terminal, but It's sure put a crimp in my digging and when I still get out I often forget to file a trip report. I and both of my sons (18 and 14) journeyed to Glendon NC to participate in the Glendon Quarry pyrite hunt which I understand to be open twice a year. We were warned to bring rubber boots and we are sure glad we did. We met at the mine, signed the release papers and entered the quarry to the sounds of reverberating thunder. We parked the truck in a reasonably flat spot on the upper side of the quarry road. We grabbed out gear and proceeded into the quarry completely oblivious to the descending rain and lacking in any way what we were looking for. Glendon is a pyrophyllite quarry, pyrophyllite known commercially as talc makes for a very slippery slimy mud and it completely obscures everything. Thank goodness for the heavy rain, it at least washed off the surface rocks... Alas, all good things come to an end and the rain stopped and the thunder boomed off into the distance. Meanwhile we still hadn't figured out what we were doing. We spotted a group all wearing identical club T-shirts and figured they might know what they were doing. So we slipped and slid our way over to watch and ask... Nope, they didn't have a clue. OK, we got out the metal detector and proceeded to sweep the ground. We found lots of black hot rocks and then finally a small lump of pyrite. Yahoo! So, we thought we found a spot we dumped gear and started looking in earnest. Thirty minutes and few more small fragments later we weren't so sure. Ian, the 14 year old, had already decided he could do better on his own and moved off. Thirty minutes more and a few slippery slides down the tailings pile (I was trying to work my up the pile, going down was not my desire), I decided to wander off myself. On the other side of the tailings pile I was trying to climb I found some serious rock hounds. Oh, I picked and puttered my way around the tailings pile since I couldn't go over the piles. Also by this time I pretty well matched the color of the quarry. I watched the serious hounds and then asked some questions. One gentleman explained the vein they were working and showed me the basic direction it ran. I explored some more and went back to get Sam my 18 year old who was still working the tailings pile. We dragged the gear over, pulled out the detector and started sweeping the host rock. Five feet and bingo, we swept off the rock and there was an exposed pyrite cube maybe 4 inches (100mm) on a side. Sam went and found Ian and we proceeded to use the chisels and work our way into the rock. We put many small pyrite pieces and cubes into our buckets but we never did get the large cube out. The thunder had started again along with some serious rain as we moved into the last hour of the quarry being open. There was a gentleman nearby who has Parkinson's and he needed some help getting down the hill and out of the quarry with his gear. My sons went over to help and I piled up our gear and started out. We'll do better next time we are there, now that we have somewhat of a clue about what to do. Everyone worked their way out of the quarry to their vehicles. And then into their vehicles; hmmm, I'm completely slimed over, my son Ian makes me look clean and now we are at my nice clean truck. So we played the undress into a trash bag game. Put a large trash bag down, step into it and drop everything into the bag including the boots, step into the truck and dress in clean clothes. I did the relaying and delivered the bags to the back of the truck. The final bag, mine got tied and tossed into the back seat till we got to dry ground. Then the trip out of the quarry; all of the street vehicles with 2 wheel drive had real problems with the super slick talc mud. Several cars had to be pushed out. We engaged 4 wheel and carefully slicked our way out. We had a wonderful time and eagerly look forward to the next time we can go. Ian even found a piece of host rock with some fluorite. As for pics, another pyrite digger posted a page on WNCRocks with photos from the day I was there http://www.wncrocks.com/magma/glendonfall06-1.htm and another web poster put some pages up of a different trip with great photos and apparently some terrific cubes. http://www.gamineral.org/glendon-mine.htm. Till the next trip out. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jun 8 20:41:16 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jun 8 20:41:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Glendon pyrophyllite quarry North Carolina Message-ID: <060920060341.21215.4488EDD900037E7D000052DF216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> That was a neat trip report, Ted, thanks for posting it. I never heard of or thought of, searching for pyrite crystals with a metal detector, honest. I guess that's something you know about when you live near (or in driving distance to) a big pyrite locality like that. I looked at the one website, those pyrite crystals are really quite awesome in size. And one picture of a whole bucket of smaller ones! Funny thing, I don't think I have ever seen pyrite crystals from there for sale by dealers--at least, not out here (out west). Like the other guy says, rock on! Pete -------------- Original message from "Ted Kowalski" : -------------- > OK list: > First in response to the Morefield $$$ questions I sent an email to the > owner requesting his asking price. > > I've been under the weather more than I like to admit the last few years. > Nothing serious or terminal, but It's sure put a crimp in my digging and > when I still get out I often forget to file a trip report. > > I and both of my sons (18 and 14) journeyed to Glendon NC to participate in > the Glendon Quarry pyrite hunt which I understand to be open twice a year. > > We were warned to bring rubber boots and we are sure glad we did. We met at > the mine, signed the release papers and entered the quarry to the sounds of > reverberating thunder. We parked the truck in a reasonably flat spot on the > upper side of the quarry road. We grabbed out gear and proceeded into the > quarry completely oblivious to the descending rain and lacking in any way > what we were looking for. > > Glendon is a pyrophyllite quarry, pyrophyllite known commercially as talc > makes for a very slippery slimy mud and it completely obscures everything. > Thank goodness for the heavy rain, it at least washed off the surface > rocks... Alas, all good things come to an end and the rain stopped and the > thunder boomed off into the distance. Meanwhile we still hadn't figured out > what we were doing. We spotted a group all wearing identical club T-shirts > and figured they might know what they were doing. So we slipped and slid our > way over to watch and ask... Nope, they didn't have a clue. OK, we got out > the metal detector and proceeded to sweep the ground. We found lots of black > hot rocks and then finally a small lump of pyrite. Yahoo! So, we thought we > found a spot we dumped gear and started looking in earnest. Thirty minutes > and few more small fragments later we weren't so sure. Ian, the 14 year old, > had already decided he could do better on his own and moved off. > > Thirty minutes more and a few slippery slides down the tailings pile (I was > trying to work my up the pile, going down was not my desire), I decided to > wander off myself. On the other side of the tailings pile I was trying to > climb I found some serious rock hounds. Oh, I picked and puttered my way > around the tailings pile since I couldn't go over the piles. Also by this > time I pretty well matched the color of the quarry. I watched the serious > hounds and then asked some questions. One gentleman explained the vein they > were working and showed me the basic direction it ran. I explored some more > and went back to get Sam my 18 year old who was still working the tailings > pile. We dragged the gear over, pulled out the detector and started sweeping > the host rock. Five feet and bingo, we swept off the rock and there was an > exposed pyrite cube maybe 4 inches (100mm) on a side. Sam went and found Ian > and we proceeded to use the chisels and work our way into the rock. > > We put many small pyrite pieces and cubes into our buckets but we never did > get the large cube out. The thunder had started again along with some > serious rain as we moved into the last hour of the quarry being open. There > was a gentleman nearby who has Parkinson's and he needed some help getting > down the hill and out of the quarry with his gear. My sons went over to help > and I piled up our gear and started out. We'll do better next time we are > there, now that we have somewhat of a clue about what to do. > > Everyone worked their way out of the quarry to their vehicles. And then into > their vehicles; hmmm, I'm completely slimed over, my son Ian makes me look > clean and now we are at my nice clean truck. So we played the undress into a > trash bag game. Put a large trash bag down, step into it and drop everything > into the bag including the boots, step into the truck and dress in clean > clothes. I did the relaying and delivered the bags to the back of the truck. > The final bag, mine got tied and tossed into the back seat till we got to > dry ground. > > Then the trip out of the quarry; all of the street vehicles with 2 wheel > drive had real problems with the super slick talc mud. Several cars had to > be pushed out. We engaged 4 wheel and carefully slicked our way out. We had > a wonderful time and eagerly look forward to the next time we can go. Ian > even found a piece of host rock with some fluorite. > > As for pics, another pyrite digger posted a page on WNCRocks with photos > from the day I was there http://www.wncrocks.com/magma/glendonfall06-1.htm > and another web poster put some pages up of a different trip with great > photos and apparently some terrific cubes. > http://www.gamineral.org/glendon-mine.htm. > > Till the next trip out. > > Ted Kowalski > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/ms-tnef > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From SHMM at sussexonline.com Fri Jun 9 03:37:28 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Fri Jun 9 03:37:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c68bb0$b52c1d70$43681540@D3JM7W21> It took days for this to resurface in my so-called mind, but I remember hearing about a professor from Penn State who, upon being presented with a fragment of a cow salt lick by a student and asked to identify it, had this reply: "It is a piece of impertinence." Cheers- Earl From gene at fossilnut.com Fri Jun 9 03:58:46 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Fri Jun 9 03:59:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] sparkleyite References: Message-ID: <002301c68bb3$aeba9c70$6400a8c0@hppav> One more that ought to exist, "Omigodite". This is usually exclaimed when the first time collector hands you one of the best speciemens ever collected at a given locality and asks "is this anything good?" Gene Hartstein From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jun 9 05:29:53 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jun 9 05:29:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names Message-ID: <060920061229.13840.448969C00003A4DD00003610216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Now I have one, of a sort, And of all things, I just heard this in a talk that a visiting scientist gave for us at the USGS yesterday; a geologist from Israel, and he gave a very good talk on "Geology of Israel". Reviewing the rock formations of different ages, he showed a picture of a slab of Cretaceous sandstone, covered with intermingled ammonite fossils; what are called "steinkerns" (you fossil folks know this well), interior casts of the ammonite shells, now just made of hard lithified sand. He said that those steinkerns weather out and there are not so many to be found on the surface as there once were because collectors have picked them up, and the geologists refer to them as them "radiolites", because people take them home as a souvenier and keep them on top of their radio. (He guessed that this term has become dated, and maybe now it should be changed to "TV-lites".) Of course, I thought of this discussion in Rockhounds as soon as he said this. Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jun 9 08:26:38 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jun 9 07:25:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <44865362.1090804@verizon.net> Message-ID: Some of the heavier minerals: herniaite, lumbagite... Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens DonH Verzonden: woensdag 7 juni 2006 5:18 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names Julie Siebel wrote: > I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown > minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? I do know one thing: when I first started collecting, I thought "leaverite" was a real mineral because people kept saying it. DD _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jun 9 08:37:26 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jun 9 08:37:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor strike in Norway Message-ID: It seems a meteor hit northern Norway, the article seems to be making a lot of assumptions with little evidence tho: Assuming that the seven minute time is correct, lets say the impact was a minute or so later then taking the speed of sound into account that would put the impact site about 30-40 km away. I would think that a Hiroshima size event might have produced some other effects than rattling a few windows. BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From zebulon at isr.umich.edu Fri Jun 9 09:34:45 2006 From: zebulon at isr.umich.edu (Peter Sparks) Date: Fri Jun 9 09:34:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names Message-ID: <6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E49D9AD1D@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu> Here's the a compiled list of all the names to date along with the "owner" of the name. I've done some minor editing to put them all into the same format, alphabetically ordered. Thanks again to Julie for the topic. Enjoy! - Peter Sparks Asphaltions The black tar counterpart to "concretions" as in cement mixed with gravel usually found along a black top road. - Jeanette Wimpee [geenet2@mchsi.com] Broccolite At a mineral show a few years back several of the dealers had gone to dinner. One of them wanted broccoli with his meal but the restaurant would not allow a substitution for the vegetable that came with the particular meal. This dealer made quite a fuss. The next morning, in his case was a new fold up mineral box with a neat label "Broccolite" and a piece of raw broccoli in it. - Gene Hartstein[gene@fossilnut.com] Chuckerite / Tosserite / Kidsboothite Even some of us old hands pick up a piece of leaverite on occasion and bring it home or at least back to the vehicle, thinking it is something else. Then it becomes Chuckerite or Tosserite as in "Chuck Er Right There." Or Toss Er in the Trash. A so-so specimen collected along with others becomes Kidsboothite for our annual show. - Gene Hartstein [gene@fossilnut.com] Cementite / Leaverite / Roadite / Yatelmeite / Xite Early in April I found labeled specimens of white Cementite and black Roadite in my collection that my kids thought I should have. There is the classic Leaverite. I've also run into Yatelmeite and Xite for unknowns. - Kreigh Tomaszewski [Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net] Concretite Oh what the heck... over the last few years, during the annual Franklin, NJ, digs at the Trotter Dump, visitors discovered foundations which had been made with Portland cement (I think) as well as crushed fines of calcite & willemite, as well as occasional chunks of hardystonite and esperite, etc... these were non-ore minerals and so were junk at the time, but now some of them are rare collectibles. Of course the concrete fluoresced, and it became quite a collectible phenomenon, appearing on the market as chunks and sliced slabs, especially for those hoping to find a tidbit of the rarer minerals within. We named this cool material "concretite." - DonH [donhalterman@verizon.net] Driveway Rock I have a slight variation. In my case it's "driveway rock", since I have a long gravel driveway that is the recipient of my castaways. Incidentally, it has become an educational tool- when my great-grandson walks over from his house, he's always looking at the rock in the driveway. If he sees something that doesn't match the white limestone he brings in in to me- "Hey Poppa, look what I found!" I then put it under the microscope and explain what it (really) is. - Jim Daly [sauktown1@yahoo.com] Dunnoite As in don't-know-ite. - Kitty & Bill Heacox [kahako@hawaiiantel.net] @%&#ing / Crapite One of the old-timers I used to rock hunt with had a nice rock term. It went like this: Me: "Hey Vince, what's this rock." Vince: "That's sexstone." Me: "What is that?" Vince. "It's just a @%&#ing rock." I later learned this was similar to crapite. - Frank J. Daniels [Cycadwood@aol.com] Fornicite I've used the name "fornicite" for the same types of rocks [@%&#ing / crapite]. - Dave Guin [dguin@earthlink.net] Frgok Many decades ago, as an undergraduate geology student, I was told that there were several professional research papers, published in esteemed journals, which referred to "Frgok." Funny rock; god only knows. - John Junkroski [jpjunk@mc.net] Fuhgeddabowditite And then there's that really expensive material from New Jersey (Franklin, maybe?) that no one can afford to own.... - Michael Schmidt [dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca] Gawkite >From a friend - i.e., "GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT IS IS" - Frederick Olmstead [folmstead@rcn.com] Goshdurnite As a part of an undergrad internship I was assigned a job as Assistant to the Assistant Curator in the college's natural history museum. One of my jobs was to prepare wood mounting blocks and labels for the mineral exhibits. When a bottle of epoxy glue fell from a shelf and shattered on the floor, my boss picked up a handful of the golden yellow glue shards and had me prepare a label that read: Goshdurnite, 3M District, Minnesota. These "crystals" were mounted on a block and added to the display. When I returned for my college reunion 30 years later, Goshdurnite was still on display there among the other silicates......... - Donald L. Tuttle [donaldtuttle@hotmail.com] Gumballite For spheroid minerals? I "made" a specimen using an actual gumball and glued it into a cavity which I sometimes take to local shows with the label: "Gumballite from the remote Gumbystan Valley....rare, not for sale" - Erich Kern [efkern@earthlink.net] Herniaite / Lumbagite Some of the heavier minerals - Axel Emmermann [axel.emmermann@pandora.be] Impertinence It took days for this to resurface in my so-called mind, but I remember hearing about a professor from Penn State who, upon being presented with a fragment of a cow salt lick by a student and asked to identify it, had this reply: "It is a piece of impertinence." - Earl Verbeek [SHMM@sussexonline.com] Invisiblite In setting up our annual rock and gem show, we try to line up volunteers to fill exhibit cases with specimens. This particular year, one of the volunteers did not come through as promised, and consequently, we had an empty display case. One of our members had the brilliant idea to put a few labels only (no specimens) in the case: "Invisiblite" and "Invisiblite" on matrix and "Invisiblite" cluster It was a big success, and we always have that to fall back on should we come up empty-handed again! - Anita D. Westlake [libawc@emory.edu] Junkite Often, with glare, dust, mud, and old eyes, you just can't be sure in the field if that chunk in your hand will tumble-polish nicely or not. After you get it home and wash it, maybe even tumble-grind it a little to remove the surface crude, you can decide if it's junkite or something better. - Alan Silverstein [ajs@frii.com] Leaverite Common usage - Frederick Olmstead [folmstead@rcn.com] Leaverite When I first started collecting, I thought "leaverite" was a real mineral because people kept saying it. - DonH [donhalterman@verizon.net] Leaverrite As in leave er right where it lays. - Kelly Hanson [rockhounds@adelphia.net] Meteorwrong Classic reference to suspected meteorites which aren't - Elton [jonee@epix.net] Mudivugite For all those of you digging out cavities of muddy material, this rare mineral is the stuff you throw away and therefore don't have in your collections. - Neil A [rockhound@btinternet.com] Omigodite This is usually exclaimed when the first time collector hands you one of the best speciemens ever collected at a given locality and asks "is this anything good?" - Gene Hartstein [gene@fossilnut.com] Pickerite and Leaverite Pickerite and leaverite here. - Steve & Marilyn [smtravis@plateautel.net] Rabbit Stone We did not know agate from any other rock when we joined our local club We were "baby" rock hounds learning the difference from rocks and semiprecious mineral. A senior member took us under his wing to teach us the various minerals. He would say, "This is agate, jasper, thunder egg," and do on. Then he pointed out the rare "rabbit stone." We lapped all this education then he told us if we found one like it we should pick it up and toss it at a rabbit! - Kelly Hanson [rockhounds@adelphia.net] Radiolites / TV-lites And of all things, I just heard this in a talk that a visiting scientist gave for us at the USGS yesterday; a geologist from Israel, and he gave a very good talk on "Geology of Israel". Reviewing the rock formations of different ages, he showed a picture of a slab of Cretaceous sandstone, covered with intermingled ammonite fossils; what are called "steinkerns" (you fossil folks know this well), interior casts of the ammonite shells, now just made of hard lithified sand. He said that those steinkerns weather out and there are not so many to be found on the surface as there once were because collectors have picked them up, and the geologists refer to them as them "radiolites", because people take them home as a souvenier and keep them on top of their radio. (He guessed that this term has become dated, and maybe now it should be changed to "TV-lites".) Of course, I thought of this discussion in Rockhounds as soon as he said this. - Pete Modreski [pjmodreski@att.net] Shuddalefterite / Beatsmeite / Damifinoite We also pick up a lot of "shuddalefterite" specimens. There's also "beatsmeite" and "damifinoite" - Jeanette Wimpee [geenet2@mchsi.com] Smasherite / Smasherleft / Smasherdownthemiddle The melange of rock flour, shards and broken crystals for those with more energy than patience in exploiting a pocket. - Elton [jonee@epix.net] Sparkley-ite ("Siebelite") When we find a mineral in crystal form that we don't recognize, we call it sparkley-ite. - Julie Siebel [julie@pandemoniumgraphics.com] Urbanite On geology trips I used to help run for intro geology classes, it almost always happend that someone would pick up a piece of asphalt and exclaim "I think I found a conglomerate." We used to make it worse by telling him/her that that was an unusual type of conglomerate called urbanite and then explain its rarity. - Andrew Turner [turnea55@hotmail.com] Utelmeite I always thought that the correct spelling was Utelmeite but perhaps that is a different mineral all together. - Nate Martin [rocknate@gmail.com] Wabbit Wock Is a wock you whip at wabbits. - Kelly Hanson [rockhounds@adelphia.net] Wutthuh****isthatite wutthuh****isthatite..... - Michael Schmidt [dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca] Yardrocks / Yardite When highgrading at home, we call those "yardrocks." (Perhaps it should be yardite?) Many of our yard rocks are what we call "almost-jasper." - Julie Siebel [julie@pandemoniumgraphics.com] Yechinoids For the fossil collector these are fossil echinoids that have weathered just a little too long. - Gene Hartstein [gene@fossilnut.com] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Fri Jun 9 09:35:08 2006 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Fri Jun 9 09:35:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names Message-ID: As the entries into this thread tapper off, I have made and unofficial collection.....tried to summerize stories and definitions. While not comprehensive?, I hope this fits your need for a concise list. Since some people have trouble with attachments, I did a cut-n-paste AND attachment. You choose! Oh yeh, I found spell check just doesn't work if your going to make up words! FWD *. Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names I'm curious: Does anyone else have a silly name like that for unknown minerals, or am I even stranger than I think? *. field trip leaders of course know all 4500+ minerals by heart and on sight... _____________________________________________________________________________________ Asphaltions: the black tar counterpart to "concretions" as in cement mixed with gravel usually found along the roadside. Beatsmeite: expert doesn't have a clue to the ID. Cementite : white Cementite related variety of black Roadite Concretite: variety of Cementite. possible Portland cement foundations of the Trotter Dump in N.J. found to fluoresce due to inclusions of crushed fines of calcite & willemite, as well as occasional chunks of hardystonite and esperite, etc*.. Collectable as chunks or sliced slabs. (see Junkite) Damifinoite: related to "Beatsmeite" but containing a stronger bonding agent Dunnoite: as in don't-know-ite Frgok*.Funny rock; god only knows. Gawkite: no clue but with mouth and eyes wide open Gumballite: spheroid minerals? Consists of an actual gumball glued it into a cavity which sometimes is found at Local shows. From the remote Gumbystan Valley....rare, "not for sale" Goshdurnite: AKA: "Goshdurnite, 3M District, Minnesota". Any the combination of glues, inks, staples, dust and other non-rock material caused to be formed thru a process of clumsiness. Classified as "silicate crystals" Herniaite: variety of lumbagite: extremely dense leverite. Invisiblite: also "Invisiblite on matrix" and "Invisiblite cluster: missing specimens due to the absence of volunteers resulting in empty showcases. Junkite: often undistunguishable from collectables in the field. Once brought home, cleaned, slabbed, & polished you decide it really is just*. Leaverite : (1) leave er right where it lays (2) could be valuable and rare sulfide minerals, but are too ugly to fit in the truck lumbagite: see Hernia-ite Meteorwrong : meteorites which aren't... Mudivugite - dug out cavities of muddy material, this rare mineral is the stuff you throw away and therefore don't have in your collections. Omigodite: an entire category of mineral finds achieved by a first time collector and uttered by a "expert" who realizes that in 40 years he has never collected any specimen close to this quality! Radioites: old collective term for any specimen that finds a home on a piece of electronic equipment. As in a radio. variety televisionites, variety plasma-ites*.etc Roadite: black variety of white Cemenite Shuddalefterite: decision made about half a mile into the trek back to the mineral wagon Smasherite or Smasherleft or Smasherdownthemiddle : rock flour, shards and broken crystals Sparkley-ite: (1) any unknown sample that is *.sparkley! (2) something so pretty you have to take it home even tho you aren't sure what it is. Urbanite: geology 101 student collection of the rare and "unusual conglomerate" asphalt. Utelmite (also slang Yatelmeite): completely unknown samples Wutthuh****isthatite: used in differing variations depending on group make up to describe a questionable find Xite: see Utelmite Yechinoids: fossil echinoids that have weathered just a little too long ________________________________________________________ Regional varients based on different dialects of language in different areas of the country may result in more than one name for any specified sample.; imagine rockhounds from NewYork City, Boston, and Atlanta discussing the same specimen. \ Bill Dicks MESTA Board Member There is a SCUBA diving Geologist who measures coral reef structures. He only works summers to avoid fridgid Winter cold periods. You might call him a .... Frost-Free Reef Ridge Rator --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/msword --- From libawc at emory.edu Fri Jun 9 10:10:56 2006 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita D. Westlake) Date: Fri Jun 9 10:11:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E49D9AD1D@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich. edu> Message-ID: <005d01c68be7$ac3b1fe0$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Seeing "Wabbit Wock" reminds me of collecting in an area one day that did, indeed have rabbits. More than once I picked up little black pellets that I mistook for garnets. Garnets shouldn't be soft and slightly sticky!!!!! Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter Sparks Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:35 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names Here's the a compiled list of all the names to date along with the "owner" of the name. I've done some minor editing to put them all into the same format, alphabetically ordered. Thanks again to Julie for the topic. Enjoy! - Peter Sparks Asphaltions The black tar counterpart to "concretions" as in cement mixed with gravel usually found along a black top road. - Jeanette Wimpee [geenet2@mchsi.com] Broccolite At a mineral show a few years back several of the dealers had gone to dinner. One of them wanted broccoli with his meal but the restaurant would not allow a substitution for the vegetable that came with the particular meal. This dealer made quite a fuss. The next morning, in his case was a new fold up mineral box with a neat label "Broccolite" and a piece of raw broccoli in it. - Gene Hartstein[gene@fossilnut.com] Chuckerite / Tosserite / Kidsboothite Even some of us old hands pick up a piece of leaverite on occasion and bring it home or at least back to the vehicle, thinking it is something else. Then it becomes Chuckerite or Tosserite as in "Chuck Er Right There." Or Toss Er in the Trash. A so-so specimen collected along with others becomes Kidsboothite for our annual show. - Gene Hartstein [gene@fossilnut.com] Cementite / Leaverite / Roadite / Yatelmeite / Xite Early in April I found labeled specimens of white Cementite and black Roadite in my collection that my kids thought I should have. There is the classic Leaverite. I've also run into Yatelmeite and Xite for unknowns. - Kreigh Tomaszewski [Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net] Concretite Oh what the heck... over the last few years, during the annual Franklin, NJ, digs at the Trotter Dump, visitors discovered foundations which had been made with Portland cement (I think) as well as crushed fines of calcite & willemite, as well as occasional chunks of hardystonite and esperite, etc... these were non-ore minerals and so were junk at the time, but now some of them are rare collectibles. Of course the concrete fluoresced, and it became quite a collectible phenomenon, appearing on the market as chunks and sliced slabs, especially for those hoping to find a tidbit of the rarer minerals within. We named this cool material "concretite." - DonH [donhalterman@verizon.net] Driveway Rock I have a slight variation. In my case it's "driveway rock", since I have a long gravel driveway that is the recipient of my castaways. Incidentally, it has become an educational tool- when my great-grandson walks over from his house, he's always looking at the rock in the driveway. If he sees something that doesn't match the white limestone he brings in in to me- "Hey Poppa, look what I found!" I then put it under the microscope and explain what it (really) is. - Jim Daly [sauktown1@yahoo.com] Dunnoite As in don't-know-ite. - Kitty & Bill Heacox [kahako@hawaiiantel.net] @%&#ing / Crapite One of the old-timers I used to rock hunt with had a nice rock term. It went like this: Me: "Hey Vince, what's this rock." Vince: "That's sexstone." Me: "What is that?" Vince. "It's just a @%&#ing rock." I later learned this was similar to crapite. - Frank J. Daniels [Cycadwood@aol.com] Fornicite I've used the name "fornicite" for the same types of rocks [@%&#ing / crapite]. - Dave Guin [dguin@earthlink.net] Frgok Many decades ago, as an undergraduate geology student, I was told that there were several professional research papers, published in esteemed journals, which referred to "Frgok." Funny rock; god only knows. - John Junkroski [jpjunk@mc.net] Fuhgeddabowditite And then there's that really expensive material from New Jersey (Franklin, maybe?) that no one can afford to own.... - Michael Schmidt [dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca] Gawkite >From a friend - i.e., "GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT IS IS" - Frederick Olmstead [folmstead@rcn.com] Goshdurnite As a part of an undergrad internship I was assigned a job as Assistant to the Assistant Curator in the college's natural history museum. One of my jobs was to prepare wood mounting blocks and labels for the mineral exhibits. When a bottle of epoxy glue fell from a shelf and shattered on the floor, my boss picked up a handful of the golden yellow glue shards and had me prepare a label that read: Goshdurnite, 3M District, Minnesota. These "crystals" were mounted on a block and added to the display. When I returned for my college reunion 30 years later, Goshdurnite was still on display there among the other silicates......... - Donald L. Tuttle [donaldtuttle@hotmail.com] Gumballite For spheroid minerals? I "made" a specimen using an actual gumball and glued it into a cavity which I sometimes take to local shows with the label: "Gumballite from the remote Gumbystan Valley....rare, not for sale" - Erich Kern [efkern@earthlink.net] Herniaite / Lumbagite Some of the heavier minerals - Axel Emmermann [axel.emmermann@pandora.be] Impertinence It took days for this to resurface in my so-called mind, but I remember hearing about a professor from Penn State who, upon being presented with a fragment of a cow salt lick by a student and asked to identify it, had this reply: "It is a piece of impertinence." - Earl Verbeek [SHMM@sussexonline.com] Invisiblite In setting up our annual rock and gem show, we try to line up volunteers to fill exhibit cases with specimens. This particular year, one of the volunteers did not come through as promised, and consequently, we had an empty display case. One of our members had the brilliant idea to put a few labels only (no specimens) in the case: "Invisiblite" and "Invisiblite" on matrix and "Invisiblite" cluster It was a big success, and we always have that to fall back on should we come up empty-handed again! - Anita D. Westlake [libawc@emory.edu] Junkite Often, with glare, dust, mud, and old eyes, you just can't be sure in the field if that chunk in your hand will tumble-polish nicely or not. After you get it home and wash it, maybe even tumble-grind it a little to remove the surface crude, you can decide if it's junkite or something better. - Alan Silverstein [ajs@frii.com] Leaverite Common usage - Frederick Olmstead [folmstead@rcn.com] Leaverite When I first started collecting, I thought "leaverite" was a real mineral because people kept saying it. - DonH [donhalterman@verizon.net] Leaverrite As in leave er right where it lays. - Kelly Hanson [rockhounds@adelphia.net] Meteorwrong Classic reference to suspected meteorites which aren't - Elton [jonee@epix.net] Mudivugite For all those of you digging out cavities of muddy material, this rare mineral is the stuff you throw away and therefore don't have in your collections. - Neil A [rockhound@btinternet.com] Omigodite This is usually exclaimed when the first time collector hands you one of the best speciemens ever collected at a given locality and asks "is this anything good?" - Gene Hartstein [gene@fossilnut.com] Pickerite and Leaverite Pickerite and leaverite here. - Steve & Marilyn [smtravis@plateautel.net] Rabbit Stone We did not know agate from any other rock when we joined our local club We were "baby" rock hounds learning the difference from rocks and semiprecious mineral. A senior member took us under his wing to teach us the various minerals. He would say, "This is agate, jasper, thunder egg," and do on. Then he pointed out the rare "rabbit stone." We lapped all this education then he told us if we found one like it we should pick it up and toss it at a rabbit! - Kelly Hanson [rockhounds@adelphia.net] Radiolites / TV-lites And of all things, I just heard this in a talk that a visiting scientist gave for us at the USGS yesterday; a geologist from Israel, and he gave a very good talk on "Geology of Israel". Reviewing the rock formations of different ages, he showed a picture of a slab of Cretaceous sandstone, covered with intermingled ammonite fossils; what are called "steinkerns" (you fossil folks know this well), interior casts of the ammonite shells, now just made of hard lithified sand. He said that those steinkerns weather out and there are not so many to be found on the surface as there once were because collectors have picked them up, and the geologists refer to them as them "radiolites", because people take them home as a souvenier and keep them on top of their radio. (He guessed that this term has become dated, and maybe now it should be changed to "TV-lites".) Of course, I thought of this discussion in Rockhounds as soon as he said this. - Pete Modreski [pjmodreski@att.net] Shuddalefterite / Beatsmeite / Damifinoite We also pick up a lot of "shuddalefterite" specimens. There's also "beatsmeite" and "damifinoite" - Jeanette Wimpee [geenet2@mchsi.com] Smasherite / Smasherleft / Smasherdownthemiddle The melange of rock flour, shards and broken crystals for those with more energy than patience in exploiting a pocket. - Elton [jonee@epix.net] Sparkley-ite ("Siebelite") When we find a mineral in crystal form that we don't recognize, we call it sparkley-ite. - Julie Siebel [julie@pandemoniumgraphics.com] Urbanite On geology trips I used to help run for intro geology classes, it almost always happend that someone would pick up a piece of asphalt and exclaim "I think I found a conglomerate." We used to make it worse by telling him/her that that was an unusual type of conglomerate called urbanite and then explain its rarity. - Andrew Turner [turnea55@hotmail.com] Utelmeite I always thought that the correct spelling was Utelmeite but perhaps that is a different mineral all together. - Nate Martin [rocknate@gmail.com] Wabbit Wock Is a wock you whip at wabbits. - Kelly Hanson [rockhounds@adelphia.net] Wutthuh****isthatite wutthuh****isthatite..... - Michael Schmidt [dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca] Yardrocks / Yardite When highgrading at home, we call those "yardrocks." (Perhaps it should be yardite?) Many of our yard rocks are what we call "almost-jasper." - Julie Siebel [julie@pandemoniumgraphics.com] Yechinoids For the fossil collector these are fossil echinoids that have weathered just a little too long. - Gene Hartstein [gene@fossilnut.com] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From prgilmore at hotmail.com Fri Jun 9 10:11:11 2006 From: prgilmore at hotmail.com (Paul Gilmore) Date: Fri Jun 9 10:11:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Suggestions for bull point rock chisel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Trow and Holden will also make custom chisels in a variety of stock diameters, and lengths. After accidentally ruining a large lavender calcite crystal deep within a narrow pocket for lack of a proper tool, I had them make a 1/2" by 20" carbide tipped chisel to "boldly go where no [tool] has gone before". It's light enough to carry even if there is slim chances of using it. Paul Gilmore Andover, MA >From: "Nathan Martin" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Suggestions for bull point rock chisel >Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2006 11:45:50 -0400 > >I would like to second (or is it third?) the recommendations for Trow and >Holden carbide tipped chisels. I have a 7/8" hand chisel and a 7/8" hand >point (both with carbide tips) that I bought from them over 10 years ago. >The steel holding one of the tips finally wore away a couple of years ago >and I sent the chisel and tip back to them for repair. In the return mail >I >received a shorter but good-as-new refurbished chisel at no charge. > >These chisels last and last if used properly (never, never put side force >on >the tip by prying with them) and they "bite" into the rock when a steel >chisel just bounces. They are about $50 US apiece but worth every bit of >it >in my opinion. > >This doesn't solve the hand-banging problem but Ted K's extension >recommendation solves that one. > >best regards, >Nate Martin >Lexington, MA > >On 6/7/06, John Joldersma wrote: >> >> When looking at the Trow and Holden Catalog, consider their >>carbide line of chisels. >>They are more costly than regular steel but will outlast 10 regular >>chisels. >>One of the diggers at Diamond Acres last summer showed me a Trow Holden >>chisel >>that after years of use had a broken point. He returned it to the >>company and they >>replaced the point and reground the mushroom head returning a shorter >>but renewed >>tool. >> They supply tools to the stone carving and quarry industries. I >>have visited the company >>in Barre VT. You can buy tools on the spot. They are near the Rock of >>Ages Quarry which >>is also worth a visit both for the quarry and the stone works. >> The Rock of Ages people have been giving special blocks to their >>carvers when a relative >>died for advertising purposes. The results of this effort may be seen >>at the Hope Cemetery. >>I remember a biplane, soccer ball, an entire book in French and a >>couple holding hands >>between twin beds. >> >>Give the Trow and Holden catalog a look >> >>http://trowandholden.com >> >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rutile1 at carolina.rr.com Fri Jun 9 11:46:36 2006 From: rutile1 at carolina.rr.com (rutile1@carolina.rr.com) Date: Fri Jun 9 11:46:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <005d01c68be7$ac3b1fe0$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> References: <6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E49D9AD1D@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu> <005d01c68be7$ac3b1fe0$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: POOPITE!!!! Todd Hamrick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita D. Westlake" Date: Friday, June 9, 2006 1:12 pm Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > Seeing "Wabbit Wock" reminds me of collecting in an area one day > that did, > indeed have rabbits. More than once I picked up little black > pellets that I > mistook for garnets. Garnets shouldn't be soft and slightly > sticky!!!!!Anita > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter > SparksSent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:35 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names > > Here's the a compiled list of all the names to date along with the > "owner" of the name. I've done some minor editing to put them all > intothe same format, alphabetically ordered. > > Thanks again to Julie for the topic. Enjoy! > > - Peter Sparks > > Asphaltions > The black tar counterpart to "concretions" as in cement mixed with > gravel usually found along a black top road. > > - Jeanette Wimpee [geenet2@mchsi.com] > > Broccolite > At a mineral show a few years back several of the dealers had gone to > dinner. One of them wanted broccoli with his meal but the restaurant > would not allow a substitution for the vegetable that came with the > particular meal. This dealer made quite a fuss. > > The next morning, in his case was a new fold up mineral box with a > neatlabel "Broccolite" and a piece of raw broccoli in it. > > - Gene Hartstein[gene@fossilnut.com] > > Chuckerite / Tosserite / Kidsboothite > Even some of us old hands pick up a piece of leaverite on occasion and > bring it home or at least back to the vehicle, thinking it is > somethingelse. Then it becomes Chuckerite or Tosserite as in "Chuck > Er Right > There." Or Toss Er in the Trash. > > A so-so specimen collected along with others becomes Kidsboothite for > our annual show. > > - Gene Hartstein [gene@fossilnut.com] > > Cementite / Leaverite / Roadite / Yatelmeite / Xite > Early in April I found labeled specimens of white Cementite and black > Roadite in my collection that my kids thought I should have. > > There is the classic Leaverite. > > I've also run into Yatelmeite and Xite for unknowns. > > - Kreigh Tomaszewski [Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net] > > Concretite > Oh what the heck... over the last few years, during the annual > Franklin,NJ, digs at the Trotter Dump, visitors discovered > foundations which had > been made with Portland cement (I think) as well as crushed fines of > calcite & willemite, as well as occasional chunks of hardystonite and > esperite, etc... these were non-ore minerals and so were junk at the > time, but now some of them are rare collectibles. Of course the > concrete fluoresced, and it became quite a collectible phenomenon, > appearing on the market as chunks and sliced slabs, especially for > thosehoping to find a tidbit of the rarer minerals within. We > named this > cool material "concretite." > > - DonH [donhalterman@verizon.net] > > Driveway Rock > I have a slight variation. In my case it's "driveway rock", since I > havea long gravel driveway that is the recipient of my castaways. > > Incidentally, it has become an educational tool- when my great- > grandsonwalks over from his house, he's always looking at the rock > in the > driveway. If he sees something that doesn't match the white > limestone he > brings in in to me- "Hey Poppa, look what I found!" I then put it > underthe microscope and explain what it (really) is. > > - Jim Daly [sauktown1@yahoo.com] > > Dunnoite > As in don't-know-ite. > > - Kitty & Bill Heacox [kahako@hawaiiantel.net] > > @%&#ing / Crapite > One of the old-timers I used to rock hunt with had a nice rock > term. It > went like this: > > Me: "Hey Vince, what's this rock." > > Vince: "That's sexstone." > > Me: "What is that?" > > Vince. "It's just a @%&#ing rock." > > > I later learned this was similar to crapite. > > - Frank J. Daniels [Cycadwood@aol.com] > > Fornicite > I've used the name "fornicite" for the same types of rocks [@%&#ing / > crapite]. > > - Dave Guin [dguin@earthlink.net] > > Frgok > Many decades ago, as an undergraduate geology student, I was told that > there were several professional research papers, published in esteemed > journals, which referred to "Frgok." > > Funny rock; god only knows. > > - John Junkroski [jpjunk@mc.net] > > > Fuhgeddabowditite > And then there's that really expensive material from New Jersey > (Franklin, maybe?) that no one can afford to own.... > > - Michael Schmidt [dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca] > > Gawkite > >From a friend - i.e., "GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT IS IS" > > - Frederick Olmstead [folmstead@rcn.com] > > Goshdurnite > As a part of an undergrad internship I was assigned a job as Assistant > to the Assistant Curator in the college's natural history museum. > > One of my jobs was to prepare wood mounting blocks and labels for the > mineral exhibits. When a bottle of epoxy glue fell from a shelf and > shattered on the floor, my boss picked up a handful of the golden > yellowglue shards and had me prepare a label that read: > Goshdurnite, 3M > District, Minnesota. These "crystals" were mounted on a block and > addedto the display. When I returned for my college reunion 30 > years later, > Goshdurnite was still on display there among the other > silicates......... > > - Donald L. Tuttle [donaldtuttle@hotmail.com] > > Gumballite > For spheroid minerals? I "made" a specimen using an actual gumball > andglued it into a cavity which I sometimes take to local shows > with the > label: "Gumballite from the remote Gumbystan Valley....rare, not for > sale" > > - Erich Kern [efkern@earthlink.net] > > Herniaite / Lumbagite > Some of the heavier minerals > > - Axel Emmermann [axel.emmermann@pandora.be] > > Impertinence > It took days for this to resurface in my so-called mind, but I > rememberhearing about a professor from Penn State who, upon being > presented with > a fragment of a cow salt lick by a student and asked to identify > it, had > this reply: "It is a piece of impertinence." > > - Earl Verbeek [SHMM@sussexonline.com] > > Invisiblite > In setting up our annual rock and gem show, we try to line up > volunteersto fill exhibit cases with specimens. This particular > year, one of the > volunteers did not come through as promised, and consequently, we > had an > empty display case. > > One of our members had the brilliant idea to put a few labels only (no > specimens) in the case: > > "Invisiblite" and "Invisiblite" on matrix and "Invisiblite" cluster > > It was a big success, and we always have that to fall back on > should we > come up empty-handed again! > > - Anita D. Westlake [libawc@emory.edu] > > Junkite > Often, with glare, dust, mud, and old eyes, you just can't be sure in > the field if that chunk in your hand will tumble-polish nicely or not. > After you get it home and wash it, maybe even tumble-grind it a little > to remove the surface crude, you can decide if it's junkite or > somethingbetter. > > - Alan Silverstein [ajs@frii.com] > > Leaverite > Common usage > > - Frederick Olmstead [folmstead@rcn.com] > > Leaverite > When I first started collecting, I thought "leaverite" was a real > mineral because people kept saying it. > > - DonH [donhalterman@verizon.net] > > Leaverrite > As in leave er right where it lays. > - Kelly Hanson [rockhounds@adelphia.net] > > Meteorwrong > Classic reference to suspected meteorites which aren't > > - Elton [jonee@epix.net] > > Mudivugite > For all those of you digging out cavities of muddy material, this rare > mineral is the stuff you throw away and therefore don't have in your > collections. > > - Neil A [rockhound@btinternet.com] > > Omigodite > This is usually exclaimed when the first time collector hands you > one of > the best speciemens ever collected at a given locality and asks "is > thisanything good?" > > - Gene Hartstein [gene@fossilnut.com] > > Pickerite and Leaverite > Pickerite and leaverite here. > > - Steve & Marilyn [smtravis@plateautel.net] > > Rabbit Stone > We did not know agate from any other rock when we joined our local > clubWe were "baby" rock hounds learning the difference from rocks and > semiprecious mineral. A senior member took us under his wing to teach > us the various minerals. He would say, "This is agate, jasper, thunder > egg," and do on. Then he pointed out the rare "rabbit stone." We > lapped all this education then he told us if we found one like it we > should pick it up and toss it at a rabbit! > > - Kelly Hanson [rockhounds@adelphia.net] > > Radiolites / TV-lites > And of all things, I just heard this in a talk that a visiting > scientistgave for us at the USGS yesterday; a geologist from > Israel, and he gave > a very good talk on "Geology of Israel". > > Reviewing the rock formations of different ages, he showed a > picture of > a slab of Cretaceous sandstone, covered with intermingled ammonite > fossils; what are called "steinkerns" (you fossil folks know this > well),interior casts of the ammonite shells, now just made of hard > lithifiedsand. > > He said that those steinkerns weather out and there are not so many to > be found on the surface as there once were because collectors have > picked them up, and the geologists refer to them as them "radiolites", > because people take them home as a souvenier and keep them on top of > their radio. (He guessed that this term has become dated, and > maybe now > it should be changed to "TV-lites".) > > Of course, I thought of this discussion in Rockhounds as soon as he > saidthis. > > - Pete Modreski [pjmodreski@att.net] > > Shuddalefterite / Beatsmeite / Damifinoite > We also pick up a lot of "shuddalefterite" specimens. There's also > "beatsmeite" and "damifinoite" > > - Jeanette Wimpee [geenet2@mchsi.com] > > Smasherite / Smasherleft / Smasherdownthemiddle > The melange of rock flour, shards and broken crystals for those with > more energy than patience in exploiting a pocket. > > - Elton [jonee@epix.net] > > Sparkley-ite ("Siebelite") > When we find a mineral in crystal form that we don't recognize, we > callit sparkley-ite. > > - Julie Siebel [julie@pandemoniumgraphics.com] > > Urbanite > On geology trips I used to help run for intro geology classes, it > almostalways happend that someone would pick up a piece of asphalt > and exclaim > "I think I found a conglomerate." We used to make it worse by telling > him/her that that was an unusual type of conglomerate called urbanite > and then explain its rarity. > > - Andrew Turner [turnea55@hotmail.com] > > Utelmeite > I always thought that the correct spelling was Utelmeite but perhaps > that is a different mineral all together. > > - Nate Martin [rocknate@gmail.com] > > Wabbit Wock > Is a wock you whip at wabbits. > > - Kelly Hanson [rockhounds@adelphia.net] > > Wutthuh****isthatite > wutthuh****isthatite..... > > - Michael Schmidt [dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca] > > Yardrocks / Yardite > When highgrading at home, we call those "yardrocks." (Perhaps it > shouldbe yardite?) Many of our yard rocks are what we call "almost- > jasper." > - Julie Siebel [julie@pandemoniumgraphics.com] > > Yechinoids > For the fossil collector these are fossil echinoids that have > weatheredjust a little too long. > > - Gene Hartstein [gene@fossilnut.com] > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jun 9 14:26:51 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jun 9 13:26:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names In-Reply-To: <005d01c68be7$ac3b1fe0$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: Wait another 1.000.000.000 years or so and they'll be "Wabbit Copwolites"... chuckle Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Anita D. Westlake Verzonden: vrijdag 9 juni 2006 18:11 Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names Seeing "Wabbit Wock" reminds me of collecting in an area one day that did, indeed have rabbits. More than once I picked up little black pellets that I mistook for garnets. Garnets shouldn't be soft and slightly sticky!!!!! Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Peter Sparks Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:35 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Sparkley-ite/Stupid Pretend Mineral Names Here's the a compiled list of all the names to date along with the "owner" of the name. I've done some minor editing to put them all into the same format, alphabetically ordered. Thanks again to Julie for the topic. Enjoy! - Peter Sparks Asphaltions The black tar counterpart to "concretions" as in cement mixed with gravel usually found along a black top road. - Jeanette Wimpee [geenet2@mchsi.com] Broccolite At a mineral show a few years back several of the dealers had gone to dinner. One of them wanted broccoli with his meal but the restaurant would not allow a substitution for the vegetable that came with the particular meal. This dealer made quite a fuss. The next morning, in his case was a new fold up mineral box with a neat label "Broccolite" and a piece of raw broccoli in it. - Gene Hartstein[gene@fossilnut.com] Chuckerite / Tosserite / Kidsboothite Even some of us old hands pick up a piece of leaverite on occasion and bring it home or at least back to the vehicle, thinking it is something else. Then it becomes Chuckerite or Tosserite as in "Chuck Er Right There." Or Toss Er in the Trash. A so-so specimen collected along with others becomes Kidsboothite for our annual show. - Gene Hartstein [gene@fossilnut.com] Cementite / Leaverite / Roadite / Yatelmeite / Xite Early in April I found labeled specimens of white Cementite and black Roadite in my collection that my kids thought I should have. There is the classic Leaverite. I've also run into Yatelmeite and Xite for unknowns. - Kreigh Tomaszewski [Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net] Concretite Oh what the heck... over the last few years, during the annual Franklin, NJ, digs at the Trotter Dump, visitors discovered foundations which had been made with Portland cement (I think) as well as crushed fines of calcite & willemite, as well as occasional chunks of hardystonite and esperite, etc... these were non-ore minerals and so were junk at the time, but now some of them are rare collectibles. Of course the concrete fluoresced, and it became quite a collectible phenomenon, appearing on the market as chunks and sliced slabs, especially for those hoping to find a tidbit of the rarer minerals within. We named this cool material "concretite." - DonH [donhalterman@verizon.net] Driveway Rock I have a slight variation. In my case it's "driveway rock", since I have a long gravel driveway that is the recipient of my castaways. Incidentally, it has become an educational tool- when my great-grandson walks over from his house, he's always looking at the rock in the driveway. If he sees something that doesn't match the white limestone he brings in in to me- "Hey Poppa, look what I found!" I then put it under the microscope and explain what it (really) is. - Jim Daly [sauktown1@yahoo.com] Dunnoite As in don't-know-ite. - Kitty & Bill Heacox [kahako@hawaiiantel.net] @%&#ing / Crapite One of the old-timers I used to rock hunt with had a nice rock term. It went like this: Me: "Hey Vince, what's this rock." Vince: "That's sexstone." Me: "What is that?" Vince. "It's just a @%&#ing rock." I later learned this was similar to crapite. - Frank J. Daniels [Cycadwood@aol.com] Fornicite I've used the name "fornicite" for the same types of rocks [@%&#ing / crapite]. - Dave Guin [dguin@earthlink.net] Frgok Many decades ago, as an undergraduate geology student, I was told that there were several professional research papers, published in esteemed journals, which referred to "Frgok." Funny rock; god only knows. - John Junkroski [jpjunk@mc.net] Fuhgeddabowditite And then there's that really expensive material from New Jersey (Franklin, maybe?) that no one can afford to own.... - Michael Schmidt [dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca] Gawkite >From a friend - i.e., "GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT IS IS" - Frederick Olmstead [folmstead@rcn.com] Goshdurnite As a part of an undergrad internship I was assigned a job as Assistant to the Assistant Curator in the college's natural history museum. One of my jobs was to prepare wood mounting blocks and labels for the mineral exhibits. When a bottle of epoxy glue fell from a shelf and shattered on the floor, my boss picked up a handful of the golden yellow glue shards and had me prepare a label that read: Goshdurnite, 3M District, Minnesota. These "crystals" were mounted on a block and added to the display. When I returned for my college reunion 30 years later, Goshdurnite was still on display there among the other silicates......... - Donald L. Tuttle [donaldtuttle@hotmail.com] Gumballite For spheroid minerals? I "made" a specimen using an actual gumball and glued it into a cavity which I sometimes take to local shows with the label: "Gumballite from the remote Gumbystan Valley....rare, not for sale" - Erich Kern [efkern@earthlink.net] Herniaite / Lumbagite Some of the heavier minerals - Axel Emmermann [axel.emmermann@pandora.be] Impertinence It took days for this to resurface in my so-called mind, but I remember hearing about a professor from Penn State who, upon being presented with a fragment of a cow salt lick by a student and asked to identify it, had this reply: "It is a piece of impertinence." - Earl Verbeek [SHMM@sussexonline.com] Invisiblite In setting up our annual rock and gem show, we try to line up volunteers to fill exhibit cases with specimens. This particular year, one of the volunteers did not come through as promised, and consequently, we had an empty display case. One of our members had the brilliant idea to put a few labels only (no specimens) in the case: "Invisiblite" and "Invisiblite" on matrix and "Invisiblite" cluster It was a big success, and we always have that to fall back on should we come up empty-handed again! - Anita D. Westlake [libawc@emory.edu] Junkite Often, with glare, dust, mud, and old eyes, you just can't be sure in the field if that chunk in your hand will tumble-polish nicely or not. After you get it home and wash it, maybe even tumble-grind it a little to remove the surface crude, you can decide if it's junkite or something better. - Alan Silverstein [ajs@frii.com] Leaverite Common usage - Frederick Olmstead [folmstead@rcn.com] Leaverite When I first started collecting, I thought "leaverite" was a real mineral because people kept saying it. - DonH [donhalterman@verizon.net] Leaverrite As in leave er right where it lays. - Kelly Hanson [rockhounds@adelphia.net] Meteorwrong Classic reference to suspected meteorites which aren't - Elton [jonee@epix.net] Mudivugite For all those of you digging out cavities of muddy material, this rare mineral is the stuff you throw away and therefore don't have in your collections. - Neil A [rockhound@btinternet.com] Omigodite This is usually exclaimed when the first time collector hands you one of the best speciemens ever collected at a given locality and asks "is this anything good?" - Gene Hartstein [gene@fossilnut.com] Pickerite and Leaverite Pickerite and leaverite here. - Steve & Marilyn [smtravis@plateautel.net] Rabbit Stone We did not know agate from any other rock when we joined our local club We were "baby" rock hounds learning the difference from rocks and semiprecious mineral. A senior member took us under his wing to teach us the various minerals. He would say, "This is agate, jasper, thunder egg," and do on. Then he pointed out the rare "rabbit stone." We lapped all this education then he told us if we found one like it we should pick it up and toss it at a rabbit! - Kelly Hanson [rockhounds@adelphia.net] Radiolites / TV-lites And of all things, I just heard this in a talk that a visiting scientist gave for us at the USGS yesterday; a geologist from Israel, and he gave a very good talk on "Geology of Israel". Reviewing the rock formations of different ages, he showed a picture of a slab of Cretaceous sandstone, covered with intermingled ammonite fossils; what are called "steinkerns" (you fossil folks know this well), interior casts of the ammonite shells, now just made of hard lithified sand. He said that those steinkerns weather out and there are not so many to be found on the surface as there once were because collectors have picked them up, and the geologists refer to them as them "radiolites", because people take them home as a souvenier and keep them on top of their radio. (He guessed that this term has become dated, and maybe now it should be changed to "TV-lites".) Of course, I thought of this discussion in Rockhounds as soon as he said this. - Pete Modreski [pjmodreski@att.net] Shuddalefterite / Beatsmeite / Damifinoite We also pick up a lot of "shuddalefterite" specimens. There's also "beatsmeite" and "damifinoite" - Jeanette Wimpee [geenet2@mchsi.com] Smasherite / Smasherleft / Smasherdownthemiddle The melange of rock flour, shards and broken crystals for those with more energy than patience in exploiting a pocket. - Elton [jonee@epix.net] Sparkley-ite ("Siebelite") When we find a mineral in crystal form that we don't recognize, we call it sparkley-ite. - Julie Siebel [julie@pandemoniumgraphics.com] Urbanite On geology trips I used to help run for intro geology classes, it almost always happend that someone would pick up a piece of asphalt and exclaim "I think I found a conglomerate." We used to make it worse by telling him/her that that was an unusual type of conglomerate called urbanite and then explain its rarity. - Andrew Turner [turnea55@hotmail.com] Utelmeite I always thought that the correct spelling was Utelmeite but perhaps that is a different mineral all together. - Nate Martin [rocknate@gmail.com] Wabbit Wock Is a wock you whip at wabbits. - Kelly Hanson [rockhounds@adelphia.net] Wutthuh****isthatite wutthuh****isthatite..... - Michael Schmidt [dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca] Yardrocks / Yardite When highgrading at home, we call those "yardrocks." (Perhaps it should be yardite?) Many of our yard rocks are what we call "almost-jasper." - Julie Siebel [julie@pandemoniumgraphics.com] Yechinoids For the fossil collector these are fossil echinoids that have weathered just a little too long. - Gene Hartstein [gene@fossilnut.com] --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Jun 9 13:55:10 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Jun 9 13:55:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor strike in Norway 9for real?) Message-ID: <060920062055.28877.4489E02E0001DF4A000070CD216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi Bryan, I've looked at that website, and I'm still trying to figure out if that story (and the whole website) is a total joke, or if it's just a website the carries offbeat stories they've picked up. I have not seen anything anywhere else in the news about a meteor in Norway. For one thing, the story says it happened at 2:05 a.m., but the picture shows blue sky and white clouds. Now, I realize that they are up in "the land of midnight sun"--but it doesn't look like a low-sun-in-the-sky sunset-like picture. Pete -------------- Original message from "J Bryan Kramer" : -------------- > It seems a meteor hit northern Norway, the article seems to be making a lot > of assumptions with little evidence tho: > > > > Assuming that the seven minute time is correct, lets say the impact was a > minute or so later then taking the speed of sound into account that would > put the impact site about 30-40 km away. I would think that a Hiroshima size > event might have produced some other effects than rattling a few windows. > > > BK > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jun 9 14:09:18 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jun 9 14:09:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor strike in Norway 9for real?) In-Reply-To: <060920062055.28877.4489E02E0001DF4A000070CD216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <060920062055.28877.4489E02E0001DF4A000070CD216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: You're right google shows nothing for "norway meteor". Aftenposten is the major paper in Norway, at least the one which is quoted in English most often. I did hear something on the radio news but they seemed to be using the same article. Maybe it is silly season stuff, it didn't make any sense to me. BK On 6/9/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Hi Bryan, > > I've looked at that website, and I'm still trying to figure out if that > story (and the whole website) is a total joke, or if it's just a website the > carries offbeat stories they've picked up. I have not seen anything > anywhere else in the news about a meteor in Norway. > > For one thing, the story says it happened at 2:05 a.m., but the picture > shows blue sky and white clouds. Now, I realize that they are up in "the > land of midnight sun"--but it doesn't look like a low-sun-in-the-sky > sunset-like picture. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from "J Bryan Kramer" < > codeburner@gmail.com>: -------------- > > > > It seems a meteor hit northern Norway, the article seems to be making a > lot > > of assumptions with little evidence tho: > > > > > > > > Assuming that the seven minute time is correct, lets say the impact was > a > > minute or so later then taking the speed of sound into account that > would > > put the impact site about 30-40 km away. I would think that a Hiroshima > size > > event might have produced some other effects than rattling a few > windows. > > > > > > BK > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Fri Jun 9 14:09:25 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes-Moen) Date: Fri Jun 9 14:09:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor strike in Norway 9for real?) In-Reply-To: <060920062055.28877.4489E02E0001DF4A000070CD216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: If it hit in N. Norway at this time of year, the sun does not set! Hence the name "land of the midnight sun"! Where is the original article? I lived in Norway for 14 years..would like to see it. Jeanne On 6/9/06 4:55 PM, "pjmodreski@att.net" wrote: > Hi Bryan, > > I've looked at that website, and I'm still trying to figure out if that story > (and the whole website) is a total joke, or if it's just a website the carries > offbeat stories they've picked up. I have not seen anything anywhere else in > the news about a meteor in Norway. > > For one thing, the story says it happened at 2:05 a.m., but the picture shows > blue sky and white clouds. Now, I realize that they are up in "the land of > midnight sun"--but it doesn't look like a low-sun-in-the-sky sunset-like > picture. > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from "J Bryan Kramer" : > -------------- > > >> It seems a meteor hit northern Norway, the article seems to be making a lot >> of assumptions with little evidence tho: >> >> >> >> Assuming that the seven minute time is correct, lets say the impact was a >> minute or so later then taking the speed of sound into account that would >> put the impact site about 30-40 km away. I would think that a Hiroshima size >> event might have produced some other effects than rattling a few windows. >> >> >> BK >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Fri Jun 9 14:12:09 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes-Moen) Date: Fri Jun 9 14:12:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor strike in Norway 9for real?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Aftenposten is the foremost newspaper over there....I'll try to check their site about it Jeanne On 6/9/06 5:09 PM, "J Bryan Kramer" wrote: > You're right google shows nothing for "norway meteor". Aftenposten is the > major paper in Norway, at least the one which is quoted in English most > often. I did hear something on the radio news but they seemed to be using > the same article. > > Maybe it is silly season stuff, it didn't make any sense to me. > > BK > > On 6/9/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >> >> Hi Bryan, >> >> I've looked at that website, and I'm still trying to figure out if that >> story (and the whole website) is a total joke, or if it's just a website the >> carries offbeat stories they've picked up. I have not seen anything >> anywhere else in the news about a meteor in Norway. >> >> For one thing, the story says it happened at 2:05 a.m., but the picture >> shows blue sky and white clouds. Now, I realize that they are up in "the >> land of midnight sun"--but it doesn't look like a low-sun-in-the-sky >> sunset-like picture. >> >> Pete >> >> -------------- Original message from "J Bryan Kramer" < >> codeburner@gmail.com>: -------------- >> >> >>> It seems a meteor hit northern Norway, the article seems to be making a >> lot >>> of assumptions with little evidence tho: >>> >>> >>> >>> Assuming that the seven minute time is correct, lets say the impact was >> a >>> minute or so later then taking the speed of sound into account that >> would >>> put the impact site about 30-40 km away. I would think that a Hiroshima >> size >>> event might have produced some other effects than rattling a few >> windows. >>> >>> >>> BK >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jun 9 14:16:39 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jun 9 14:16:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor strike in Norway 9for real?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well R?ed ?degaard mentioned in the article is a real Ph.D student he is mentioned on the web quite a bit. BK On 6/9/06, Jeanne Rhodes-Moen wrote: > > Aftenposten is the foremost newspaper over there....I'll try to check > their > site about it > > Jeanne > > > On 6/9/06 5:09 PM, "J Bryan Kramer" wrote: > > > You're right google shows nothing for "norway meteor". Aftenposten is > the > > major paper in Norway, at least the one which is quoted in English most > > often. I did hear something on the radio news but they seemed to be > using > > the same article. > > > > Maybe it is silly season stuff, it didn't make any sense to me. > > > > BK > > > > On 6/9/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > >> > >> Hi Bryan, > >> > >> I've looked at that website, and I'm still trying to figure out if that > >> story (and the whole website) is a total joke, or if it's just a > website the > >> carries offbeat stories they've picked up. I have not seen anything > >> anywhere else in the news about a meteor in Norway. > >> > >> For one thing, the story says it happened at 2:05 a.m., but the picture > >> shows blue sky and white clouds. Now, I realize that they are up in > "the > >> land of midnight sun"--but it doesn't look like a low-sun-in-the-sky > >> sunset-like picture. > >> > >> Pete > >> > >> -------------- Original message from "J Bryan Kramer" < > >> codeburner@gmail.com>: -------------- > >> > >> > >>> It seems a meteor hit northern Norway, the article seems to be making > a > >> lot > >>> of assumptions with little evidence tho: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Assuming that the seven minute time is correct, lets say the impact > was > >> a > >>> minute or so later then taking the speed of sound into account that > >> would > >>> put the impact site about 30-40 km away. I would think that a > Hiroshima > >> size > >>> event might have produced some other effects than rattling a few > >> windows. > >>> > >>> > >>> BK > >>> > >>> > >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >>> multipart/alternative > >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >>> text/html > >>> --- > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>> Subscription Services: > >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >>> List Home Page: > >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >> --- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Fri Jun 9 14:17:59 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes-Moen) Date: Fri Jun 9 14:18:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor strike in Norway 9for real?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just read the full story in Norwegian, and yes, it's for real..they are saying it hit the side of a mountain up in Northern Norway. I have friends who live near there..I'll ask them if they heard it or not. But it's a real story...they've only ever found 13 meteorites in Norway before...though I once thought I found one, it was actually a piece of metal from an ancient slag 'furnace' Jeanne On 6/9/06 5:09 PM, "J Bryan Kramer" wrote: > You're right google shows nothing for "norway meteor". Aftenposten is the > major paper in Norway, at least the one which is quoted in English most > often. I did hear something on the radio news but they seemed to be using > the same article. > > Maybe it is silly season stuff, it didn't make any sense to me. > > BK > > On 6/9/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >> >> Hi Bryan, >> >> I've looked at that website, and I'm still trying to figure out if that >> story (and the whole website) is a total joke, or if it's just a website the >> carries offbeat stories they've picked up. I have not seen anything >> anywhere else in the news about a meteor in Norway. >> >> For one thing, the story says it happened at 2:05 a.m., but the picture >> shows blue sky and white clouds. Now, I realize that they are up in "the >> land of midnight sun"--but it doesn't look like a low-sun-in-the-sky >> sunset-like picture. >> >> Pete >> >> -------------- Original message from "J Bryan Kramer" < >> codeburner@gmail.com>: -------------- >> >> >>> It seems a meteor hit northern Norway, the article seems to be making a >> lot >>> of assumptions with little evidence tho: >>> >>> >>> >>> Assuming that the seven minute time is correct, lets say the impact was >> a >>> minute or so later then taking the speed of sound into account that >> would >>> put the impact site about 30-40 km away. I would think that a Hiroshima >> size >>> event might have produced some other effects than rattling a few >> windows. >>> >>> >>> BK >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From roughrock at gmail.com Fri Jun 9 16:16:23 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Fri Jun 9 16:16:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: References: <005201c68ab2$7f952390$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> <010a01c68b19$cdc34e90$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: On 6/8/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > At this point no one has a good model, and whether it is even possible to > produce one with current computer power is questionable. > > BK > If eveybody donated a little of their unused computing power to th BBC we might be able to answer that question. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/hottopics/climatechange/ Grant Johnston -- in the Sacramento Valley, where summers are hot enough already. From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Jun 9 18:21:51 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Jun 9 18:21:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] sparkleyite and names like that Message-ID: <20060610012151.65980.qmail@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> All right, now you've gone and reminded me of a funny rocky story. Back several years ago we visited Dudy and Mary Groves at Poland Mining Camp, and visited a different Maine quarry each day. We researched Maine localities, minerals found at each one, the long and glorious history, everything. The county seat of my home county is Hamlin, WV. The Hamlin family figured large in the discovery of tourmaline in Maine. One day we were taken to the Mt Apatite quarries that the Groves owned, and we knew to keep our eye out for, of course, apatite, garnet, tourmaline, really the whole gamut of Maine minerals. I actually found a tiny rock chip with one side sort of hollowed, with tiny lavender apatites. One of the more rare minerals was purpurite, not a beautiful mineral, but somewhat rare and interesting. Purple crusts, mostly. Well, this was the end of spring, early summer in Maine. After finding that little apatite, I was primed to find more rare and interesting minerals. There! Right There!! A big purple spot on a rock - Purpurite or my name's mud! I picked it up to discover that it was pooperite, dropped from a bird that had obviously been living on purple berries! Just call me mud! Dan and I have a laugh about the purpurite that wasn't every time we see a rock redecorated by a bird. ;) That same trip I met a couple of friends who met at the Poland Mining Camp often, one was an artist who mostly painted (name unfortunately forgotten) while Jo collected. Jo was really nice, and helped us out by showing us where to dig dirt to wash and sieve for tiny tourmaline crystals, and other tips experienced collectors learn about their home turf. Later I learned that Jo was a ex-Lt. Commander, and no doubt the only Naval officer I ever hugged! Woot! I'm an old swabbie Deck Ape, and never dreamed in my whole life I would hug a pretty officer goodby when leaving the Mining Camp. Will wonders never cease? Keep on rockin' all! JR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Fri Jun 9 18:51:28 2006 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Fri Jun 9 18:53:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] advert: Element 51 updated References: <005201c68ab2$7f952390$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder><010a01c68b19$cdc34e90$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <000301c68c30$63a1ba20$6400a8c0@Junior> Greetings all; The Element 51website has been updated with a mix of common to rare minerals; some beautiful, some hideous. New additions include: fluorite, hutchinsonite, kermesite, liveingite, siegenite, sphalerite, troilite, tugtupite, bismuthinite, ferronigerite-6N6S, weloganite, catapleiite, carletonite, epididymite, leucophanite, narsarsukite, diopside, fersmanite, kovdorskite, phlogopite, and zircon. Drop by http://www.element51.com/UPDATES.htm to see the new material. More will be posted every Friday. Element 51 is environment-friendly, wheelchair accessible, open 24/7/365, fully NIOSH-472311 compliant, and has gone 17 days without an accident. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com From efkern at earthlink.net Fri Jun 9 18:54:33 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Fri Jun 9 18:54:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth References: <005201c68ab2$7f952390$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder><010a01c68b19$cdc34e90$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <000f01c68c30$d2d54970$95fef604@TheBlackAdder> Not only a question of computing power, but having valid data from a variable as large and complex as global cloud cover and the water vapor content of the atmosphere to input to a computer. Since water vapor is constantly being produced and being precipitated out of the atmosphere it may not be possible to model. The gasses that make up the atmosphere are relatively constant by comparison. On a thirty year chart of CO2 content for the northern hemisphere, it was interesting to see a very slight sawtooth waveform superimposed on the trend line indicating seasonal changes, with CO2 decreasing in summer and increasing in winter. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth On 6/8/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > At this point no one has a good model, and whether it is even possible to > produce one with current computer power is questionable. > > BK > If eveybody donated a little of their unused computing power to th BBC we might be able to answer that question. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/hottopics/climatechange/ Grant Johnston -- in the Sacramento Valley, where summers are hot enough already. _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Jun 9 19:50:23 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Jun 9 19:50:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth References: <005201c68ab2$7f952390$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder><010a01c68b19$cdc34e90$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <000f01c68c30$d2d54970$95fef604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <448A3368.544B@Tomaszewski.net> Erich, The monitoring and modeling is good enough for reasonably reliable short term modeling and prediction. You get the results of the best atmospheric models in the weather forecast you receive with every news program. Chaos theory applies, and the problem does not scale well. Kreigh Erich Kern wrote: > > Not only a question of computing power, but having valid data from a variable as large and > complex as global cloud cover and the water vapor content of the atmosphere to input to a > computer. Since water vapor is constantly being produced and being precipitated out of the > atmosphere it may not be possible to model. The gasses that make up the atmosphere are > relatively constant by comparison. On a thirty year chart of CO2 content for the northern > hemisphere, it was interesting to see a very slight sawtooth waveform superimposed on the trend > line indicating seasonal changes, with CO2 decreasing in summer and increasing in winter. > > Erich > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Grant Johnston" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth > > On 6/8/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > At this point no one has a good model, and whether it is even possible to > > produce one with current computer power is questionable. > > > > BK > > > > If eveybody donated a little of their unused computing power to th BBC > we might be able to answer that question. > http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/hottopics/climatechange/ > > Grant Johnston -- in the Sacramento Valley, where summers are hot > enough already. From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jun 9 20:14:30 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jun 9 20:14:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <000f01c68c30$d2d54970$95fef604@TheBlackAdder> References: <005201c68ab2$7f952390$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> <010a01c68b19$cdc34e90$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <000f01c68c30$d2d54970$95fef604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: And actually developing the model itself. They are a long way from that BK On 6/9/06, Erich Kern wrote: > > > > Not only a question of computing power, but having valid data from a > variable as large and > complex as global cloud cover and the water vapor content of the > atmosphere to input to a > computer. Since water vapor is constantly being produced and being > precipitated out of the > atmosphere it may not be possible to model. The gasses that make up the > atmosphere are > relatively constant by comparison. On a thirty year chart of CO2 content > for the northern > hemisphere, it was interesting to see a very slight sawtooth waveform > superimposed on the trend > line indicating seasonal changes, with CO2 decreasing in summer and > increasing in winter. > > Erich > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Grant Johnston" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:16 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth > > > On 6/8/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > At this point no one has a good model, and whether it is even possible > to > > produce one with current computer power is questionable. > > > > BK > > > > If eveybody donated a little of their unused computing power to th BBC > we might be able to answer that question. > http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/hottopics/climatechange/ > > Grant Johnston -- in the Sacramento Valley, where summers are hot > enough already. > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Jun 9 20:24:01 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Jun 9 20:24:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: <448A3368.544B@Tomaszewski.net> References: <005201c68ab2$7f952390$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> <010a01c68b19$cdc34e90$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <000f01c68c30$d2d54970$95fef604@TheBlackAdder> <448A3368.544B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: If you mean they are good enough for predicting weather then I'll agree, they are getting a lot better on three DAY predictions. But for climate predictions, right now the models are worthless. BK On 6/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Erich, > > The monitoring and modeling is good enough for reasonably reliable short > term modeling and prediction. > > You get the results of the best atmospheric models in the weather > forecast you receive with every news program. > > Chaos theory applies, and the problem does not scale well. > > Kreigh > > > Erich Kern wrote: > > > > Not only a question of computing power, but having valid data from a > variable as large and > > complex as global cloud cover and the water vapor content of the > atmosphere to input to a > > computer. Since water vapor is constantly being produced and being > precipitated out of the > > atmosphere it may not be possible to model. The gasses that make up the > atmosphere are > > relatively constant by comparison. On a thirty year chart of CO2 content > for the northern > > hemisphere, it was interesting to see a very slight sawtooth waveform > superimposed on the trend > > line indicating seasonal changes, with CO2 decreasing in summer and > increasing in winter. > > > > Erich > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Grant Johnston" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:16 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient > Truth > > > > On 6/8/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > > At this point no one has a good model, and whether it is even possible > to > > > produce one with current computer power is questionable. > > > > > > BK > > > > > > > If eveybody donated a little of their unused computing power to th BBC > > we might be able to answer that question. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/hottopics/climatechange/ > > > > Grant Johnston -- in the Sacramento Valley, where summers are hot > > enough already. > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Fri Jun 9 20:51:41 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Jun 9 20:51:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Testing the model / CO2 / An Inconvenient Truth In-Reply-To: References: <005201c68ab2$7f952390$b4faf604@TheBlackAdder> <010a01c68b19$cdc34e90$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <000f01c68c30$d2d54970$95fef604@TheBlackAdder> <448A3368.544B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060609204158.036b5970@orerockon.com> Actually, I do a fair bit of climate modeling as it relates to productivity and ocean survival of various salmon stocks. The models that we use in the Pacific NW are pretty darn accurate a year or so out (e.g., sea surface temperature, river flows, coastal ocean upwelling, the El Nino phenomenon); however I agree that long term predictions (say, 50-100 years) of even the simplest biological phenomena (e.g., animal populations) are simply impossible to interpret. My partner and I have a journal article in review abut exactly that problem as it relates to population viability analyses of salmon stocks (i.e., predictions of population fluctuations for the next 100 years). And we have 90 or so years of historical data to use for salmon in the NW. As compared to at the most 50 years of good daily air temperature. And climate trends are almost infinitely more difficult to model than animal populations. And.. And... ad infinitum. At 08:24 PM 6/9/2006, you wrote: >If you mean they are good enough for predicting weather then I'll agree, >they are getting a lot better on three DAY predictions. But for climate >predictions, right now the models are worthless. > >BK > >On 6/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> >>Erich, >> >>The monitoring and modeling is good enough for reasonably reliable short >>term modeling and prediction. >> >>You get the results of the best atmospheric models in the weather >>forecast you receive with every news program. >> >>Chaos theory applies, and the problem does not scale well. >> >>Kreigh > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From efkern at earthlink.net Sat Jun 10 21:33:24 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sat Jun 10 21:33:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling Message-ID: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> Inconvenient Truths Indeed By Dr. Robert C. Balling Jr. : ' Tech Central Station' // 24 May 2006 Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" opens around the country this week. In the film Gore pulls together evidence from every corner of the globe to convince us that climate change is happening fast, we are to blame, and if we don't act immediately, our Earth will be all but ruined. However, as you sit through the film, consider the following inconvenient truths: (1) Near the beginning of the film, Gore pays respects to his Harvard mentor and inspiration, Dr. Roger Revelle. Gore praises Revelle for his discovery that atmospheric CO2 levels were rising and could potentially contribute to higher temperatures at a global scale. There is no mention, however, of Revelle's article published in the early 1990s concluding that the science is "too uncertain to justify drastic action." (S.F. Singer, C. Starr, and R. Revelle, "What to do about Greenhouse Warming: Look Before You Leap. Cosmos 1 (1993) 28-33.) (2) Gore discusses glacial and snowpack retreats atop Kenya's Mt. Kilimanjaro, implying that human induced global warming is to blame. But Gore fails to mention that the snows of Kilimanjaro have been retreating for more than 100 years, largely due to declining atmospheric moisture, not global warming. Gore does not acknowledge the two major articles on the subject published in 2004 in the International Journal of Climatology and the Journal of Geophysical Research showing that modern glacier retreat on Kilimanjaro was initiated by a reduction in precipitation at the end of the nineteenth century and not by local or global warming. (3) Many of Gore's conclusions are based on the "Hockey Stick" that shows near constant global temperatures for 1,000 years with a sharp increase in temperature from 1900 onward. The record Gore chooses in the film completely wipes out the Medieval Warm Period of 1,000 years ago and Little Ice Age that started 500 years ago and ended just over 100 years ago. There is evidence from throughout the world that these climate episodes existed, but on Gore's Hockey Stick, they become nothing more than insignificant fluctuations (Gore even jokes at one point about the Medieval Warm period). (4) You will certainly not be surprised to see Katrina, other hurricanes, tornadoes, flash floods, and many types of severe weather events linked by Gore to global warming. However, if one took the time to read the downloadable "Summary for Policymakers" in the latest report from the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), one would learn that "No systematic changes in the frequency of tornadoes, thunder days, or hail events are evident in the limited areas analysed" and that "Changes globally in tropical and extra-tropical storm intensity and frequency are dominated by inter-decadal and multi-decadal variations, with no significant trends evident over the 20th century." (5) Gore claims that sea-level rise could drown the Pacific islands, Florida, major cities the world over, and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. No mention is made of the fact that sea level has been rising at a rate of 1.8 mm per year for the past 8,000 years; the IPCC notes that "No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been detected." (6) Near the end of the film, we learn of ways the United States could reduce emissions of greenhouse gases back to the levels of 1970. OK. Assume the United States accomplishes this lofty goal, would we see any impact on climate? The well-known answer is NO. China, India and many other countries are significantly increasing their emission levels, and global concentrations of CO2 may double this century no matter what we decide to do in the United States. Even if the Kyoto Protocol could be fully implemented to honor the opening of this movie, the globe would be spared no more than a few hundredths of a degree of warming. Throughout the film, Gore displays his passion for the global warming issue, and it is obvious that he has dedicated a substantial amount of time to learning about climate change and the greenhouse effect. This leads to an obvious question. The Kyoto Protocol was negotiated in December of 1997 giving the Clinton-Gore administration more than three years to present the Protocol to the United States Senate for ratification. Given Gore's position in the Senate and his knowledge and passion for global warming, one must wonder why then-Vice President Gore did not seize on what appears to have been an opportunity of a lifetime? "An Inconvenient Truth" is billed as the scariest movie you'll ever see. It may well be, but that's in part because it is not the most accurate depiction of the state of global warming science. The enormous uncertainties surrounding the global warming issue are conveniently missing in "An Inconvenient Truth." Robert C. Balling Jr. is a professor in the climatology program at Arizona State University, specializing in climate change and the greenhouse effect. ************************************* From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Jun 11 12:11:15 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Jun 11 12:10:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' Message-ID: <004101c68d8a$d06a79c0$adfcf604@TheBlackAdder> This is not from a Rockhounds list member, so please reply to him AND the list. I look forward to the replies. Erich ****************************************** Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' ****************************************** From: Tom Hanley We have been given a box of what I think are called "Apache Tears." They are globs of black obsidian that appear to have been imbedded in concentrically banded gray pumice from which they have popped. Does anyone have experience with this interesting structure? The contact between the black obsidian "tear" and the gray enveloping pumice is glassy and distinct. Thanks. Tom Hanley, Prof. of Geology Department of Chemistry and Geology, C.S.U. 4225 University Ave., Columbus, GA 31907-5645 VOX: (706) 568-2075; FAX: (706) 569-3133 See our Departmental home page http://chemgeo.colstate.edu/ Links to the ACRES projects and to Panama photos may be found at: http://chemgeo.ColState.edu/th_hp.htm "Rock Trails in Central Park" co-authored with M.M. Graff, is available for download at http://www.greenswardparks.org ============================================================== From pjmodreski at att.net Sun Jun 11 12:45:29 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sun Jun 11 12:45:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' Message-ID: <061120061945.894.448C72D90000E62E0000037E216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi to Eric, Tom Hanley, and the List, Apache Tears are one of my "favorite" kind of rocks to show people and to talk about; I'm sure many on the list could give an explanation about them, but I'll jump & do so since I just read this and no one else has yet. "Apache Tears" are nodules of unaltered obsidian in rhyolite lava that was once completely glassy--presumably, all of it was like the Apache Tear obsidian nodules are now. The rest has become altered and hydrated, to the gray, semi-glassy, often concentrically fractured rock called "perlite". This is mined as a source of commercial perlite in several places in Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, and Nevada (that I know; perhaps elsewhere too). When the perlite is heated in a kiln, the water in it puffs it up to form the porous, lightweight commercial perlite prodcut that is used as a soil additive. Alteration of the original obsidian to perlite probably occured as the obsidian flow was cooling down and was still warm; not red hot any more but probably not totally cold either, by interaction with steam and hot or warm water. The most solid, least fractured areas of the obsidian would have been the last to absorb water and turn to perlite, so these are the areas that never did become altered, and remain as the "Apache Tears", which may or may not weather out to form loose nodules. Thus, the formation of the Apache Tears is analogous but on a smaller scale, to spheroidal weathering in granite or in other igneous rocks. That's what I know, or believe I know, about these things. Sincerely, Pete Modreski, Denver Colorado "Rockhounds" List, and U.S. Geological Survey -------------- Original message from "Erich Kern" : -------------- > > This is not from a Rockhounds list member, so please reply to him AND the list. > > I look forward to the replies. > > Erich > > ****************************************** > Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' > ****************************************** > From: Tom Hanley > > We have been given a box of what I think are called > "Apache Tears." They are globs of black obsidian that > appear to have been imbedded in concentrically banded > gray pumice from which they have popped. Does anyone > have experience with this interesting structure? The > contact between the black obsidian "tear" and the gray > enveloping pumice is glassy and distinct. > > Thanks. > > Tom Hanley, Prof. of Geology > Department of Chemistry and Geology, C.S.U. > 4225 University Ave., Columbus, GA 31907-5645 > VOX: (706) 568-2075; FAX: (706) 569-3133 > See our Departmental home page http://chemgeo.colstate.edu/ > > Links to the ACRES projects and to Panama photos may be found at: > http://chemgeo.ColState.edu/th_hp.htm > > "Rock Trails in Central Park" co-authored with M.M. Graff, is available for > download at http://www.greenswardparks.org > > ============================================================== > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Sun Jun 11 14:52:17 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Sun Jun 11 14:52:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' References: <004101c68d8a$d06a79c0$adfcf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <001101c68da1$4f3d5b30$6400a8c0@hppav> Sounds like Apache Tears in perlite matrix. The likely source is a commercial perlite mine just west of Superior, AZ. The material from the mine is transported to a processing plant just north of highway 60 and the hard tears and surrounding matrix are separated out on the screens. The good perlite is softer and goes through the screening process and on to the cooking process where heat is applied and the perlite expands to give the material we use for insulation and potted plants. The tears and hard matrix are waste and rejected at the plant. I'm not sure of the collecting status today but some time ago you could get access on weekends to the waste pile and collect all you ever wanted. It was the second easiest collecting I have ever done and a lot of fun too. To those on the list, I guses the secret is out, I've been known to collect minerals as well as fossils on rare occasions. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erich Kern" To: "Rockhounds" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' > > This is not from a Rockhounds list member, so please reply to him AND the > list. > > I look forward to the replies. > > Erich > > ****************************************** > Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' > ****************************************** > From: Tom Hanley > > We have been given a box of what I think are called > "Apache Tears." They are globs of black obsidian that > appear to have been imbedded in concentrically banded > gray pumice from which they have popped. Does anyone > have experience with this interesting structure? The > contact between the black obsidian "tear" and the gray > enveloping pumice is glassy and distinct. > > Thanks. > > Tom Hanley, Prof. of Geology > Department of Chemistry and Geology, C.S.U. > 4225 University Ave., Columbus, GA 31907-5645 > VOX: (706) 568-2075; FAX: (706) 569-3133 > See our Departmental home page http://chemgeo.colstate.edu/ > > Links to the ACRES projects and to Panama photos may be found at: > http://chemgeo.ColState.edu/th_hp.htm > > "Rock Trails in Central Park" co-authored with M.M. Graff, is available > for > download at http://www.greenswardparks.org > > ============================================================== > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rocks4u at prodigy.net Sun Jun 11 15:14:01 2006 From: rocks4u at prodigy.net (rocks4u@prodigy.net) Date: Sun Jun 11 15:17:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' References: <061120061945.894.448C72D90000E62E0000037E216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <00c501c68da4$5831f5e0$fdf3fea9@WesMedion1918> Pete, What about the theory that those round nodules of obsidian are the product of gaseous explosions into the air forming round droplets that fall into the fresh ash and are covered up by subsequent ash falls to be weathered out in the future? Just my humble opinion. Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 12:45 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' > Hi to Eric, Tom Hanley, and the List, > > Apache Tears are one of my "favorite" kind of rocks to show people and to > talk about; I'm sure many on the list could give an explanation about > them, but I'll jump & do so since I just read this and no one else has > yet. > > "Apache Tears" are nodules of unaltered obsidian in rhyolite lava that was > once completely glassy--presumably, all of it was like the Apache Tear > obsidian nodules are now. The rest has become altered and hydrated, to > the gray, semi-glassy, often concentrically fractured rock called > "perlite". This is mined as a source of commercial perlite in several > places in Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, and Nevada (that I know; perhaps > elsewhere too). When the perlite is heated in a kiln, the water in it > puffs it up to form the porous, lightweight commercial perlite prodcut > that is used as a soil additive. > > Alteration of the original obsidian to perlite probably occured as the > obsidian flow was cooling down and was still warm; not red hot any more > but probably not totally cold either, by interaction with steam and hot or > warm water. The most solid, least fractured areas of the obsidian would > have been the last to absorb water and turn to perlite, so these are the > areas that never did become altered, and remain as the "Apache Tears", > which may or may not weather out to form loose nodules. Thus, the > formation of the Apache Tears is analogous but on a smaller scale, to > spheroidal weathering in granite or in other igneous rocks. > > That's what I know, or believe I know, about these things. > > Sincerely, Pete Modreski, Denver Colorado > "Rockhounds" List, and U.S. Geological Survey > > -------------- Original message from "Erich Kern" > : -------------- > > >> >> This is not from a Rockhounds list member, so please reply to him AND the >> list. >> >> I look forward to the replies. >> >> Erich >> >> ****************************************** >> Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' >> ****************************************** >> From: Tom Hanley >> >> We have been given a box of what I think are called >> "Apache Tears." They are globs of black obsidian that >> appear to have been imbedded in concentrically banded >> gray pumice from which they have popped. Does anyone >> have experience with this interesting structure? The >> contact between the black obsidian "tear" and the gray >> enveloping pumice is glassy and distinct. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Tom Hanley, Prof. of Geology >> Department of Chemistry and Geology, C.S.U. >> 4225 University Ave., Columbus, GA 31907-5645 >> VOX: (706) 568-2075; FAX: (706) 569-3133 >> See our Departmental home page http://chemgeo.colstate.edu/ >> >> Links to the ACRES projects and to Panama photos may be found at: >> http://chemgeo.ColState.edu/th_hp.htm >> >> "Rock Trails in Central Park" co-authored with M.M. Graff, is available >> for >> download at http://www.greenswardparks.org >> >> ============================================================== >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From tim at orerockon.com Sun Jun 11 18:55:10 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Jun 11 18:55:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' In-Reply-To: <061120061945.894.448C72D90000E62E0000037E216028074107059C0 A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <061120061945.894.448C72D90000E62E0000037E216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060611185441.036da370@orerockon.com> Add OR, WA, and ID to your list... At 12:45 PM 6/11/2006, you wrote: >Hi to Eric, Tom Hanley, and the List, > >Apache Tears are one of my "favorite" kind of rocks to show people >and to talk about; I'm sure many on the list could give an >explanation about them, but I'll jump & do so since I just read this >and no one else has yet. > >"Apache Tears" are nodules of unaltered obsidian in rhyolite lava >that was once completely glassy--presumably, all of it was like the >Apache Tear obsidian nodules are now. The rest has become altered >and hydrated, to the gray, semi-glassy, often concentrically >fractured rock called "perlite". This is mined as a source of >commercial perlite in several places in Colorado, New Mexico, >Arizona, and Nevada (that I know; perhaps elsewhere too). When the >perlite is heated in a kiln, the water in it puffs it up to form the >porous, lightweight commercial perlite prodcut that is used as a soil additive. > >Alteration of the original obsidian to perlite probably occured as >the obsidian flow was cooling down and was still warm; not red hot >any more but probably not totally cold either, by interaction with >steam and hot or warm water. The most solid, least fractured areas >of the obsidian would have been the last to absorb water and turn to >perlite, so these are the areas that never did become altered, and >remain as the "Apache Tears", which may or may not weather out to >form loose nodules. Thus, the formation of the Apache Tears is >analogous but on a smaller scale, to spheroidal weathering in >granite or in other igneous rocks. > >That's what I know, or believe I know, about these things. > >Sincerely, Pete Modreski, Denver Colorado >"Rockhounds" List, and U.S. Geological Survey Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Jun 11 20:36:25 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Jun 11 20:36:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Native Sulphur flow at Poas Volcano Message-ID: <001e01c68dd1$62e405f0$90fcf604@TheBlackAdder> I never knew this much native, molten sulfur occurred at the earth's surface where it could be oxidised easily. Erich ****************************** Sulphur flow at Poas Volcano ****************************** From: Eliecer Duarte Gonzalez Sulphur Flow (160m long) documented at Po?s Volcano, Costa Rica. June 2, 2006 During a visit to the active crater area of Poas Volcano, a 160m in length sulphur flow was documented. Elementary sulphur has concentrated, since last year, at the base of the main NE fumaroles. In the process, most of the E and NE inner walls show a bright yellow appearance. One of the sulphur ponds (fumarole C) collapsed partially spilling a considerable amount of molten sulphur that travelled down one of the small drainages. Thickness of such flow vary from 5 to 15cm although some superelevations marks, reached up to 25cm. Most of the flow shows a pahoe hoe texture and its color varies from bright to dark yellow, due to impurities from mud and sediments. Despite the elongated flow, small levees were observed at the very end of it reaching as far as few meters from the hot acidic lake. Visual information can be found at http://www.ovsicori.una.ac.cr/ ============================================================== From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Jun 12 06:05:08 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Jun 12 06:05:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] obsidian 'Apache tears' Message-ID: <061220061305.19640.448D66820007892C00004CB8216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> That's not a theory that I've ever heard of, Wes, honest. I'm pretty sure they form the way I described. The obsidian "tears" and the perlite around are, as far as I know, solid with no gas bubbles in them, which shows that they formed in a dense obsidian flow, not in an explosive ash eruption. Pete -------------- Original message from : -------------- > Pete, What about the theory that those round nodules of obsidian are the > product of gaseous explosions into the air forming round droplets that fall > into the fresh ash and are covered up by subsequent ash falls to be > weathered out in the future? Just my humble opinion. > Wes > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 12:45 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' > > > > Hi to Eric, Tom Hanley, and the List, > > > > Apache Tears are one of my "favorite" kind of rocks to show people and to > > talk about; I'm sure many on the list could give an explanation about > > them, but I'll jump & do so since I just read this and no one else has > > yet. > > > > "Apache Tears" are nodules of unaltered obsidian in rhyolite lava that was > > once completely glassy--presumably, all of it was like the Apache Tear > > obsidian nodules are now. The rest has become altered and hydrated, to > > the gray, semi-glassy, often concentrically fractured rock called > > "perlite". This is mined as a source of commercial perlite in several > > places in Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, and Nevada (that I know; perhaps > > elsewhere too). When the perlite is heated in a kiln, the water in it > > puffs it up to form the porous, lightweight commercial perlite prodcut > > that is used as a soil additive. > > > > Alteration of the original obsidian to perlite probably occured as the > > obsidian flow was cooling down and was still warm; not red hot any more > > but probably not totally cold either, by interaction with steam and hot or > > warm water. The most solid, least fractured areas of the obsidian would > > have been the last to absorb water and turn to perlite, so these are the > > areas that never did become altered, and remain as the "Apache Tears", > > which may or may not weather out to form loose nodules. Thus, the > > formation of the Apache Tears is analogous but on a smaller scale, to > > spheroidal weathering in granite or in other igneous rocks. > > > > That's what I know, or believe I know, about these things. > > > > Sincerely, Pete Modreski, Denver Colorado > > "Rockhounds" List, and U.S. Geological Survey > > > > -------------- Original message from "Erich Kern" > > : -------------- > > > > > >> > >> This is not from a Rockhounds list member, so please reply to him AND the > >> list. > >> > >> I look forward to the replies. > >> > >> Erich > >> > >> ****************************************** > >> Inquiry regarding obsidian 'Apache tears' > >> ****************************************** > >> From: Tom Hanley > >> > >> We have been given a box of what I think are called > >> "Apache Tears." They are globs of black obsidian that > >> appear to have been imbedded in concentrically banded > >> gray pumice from which they have popped. Does anyone > >> have experience with this interesting structure? The > >> contact between the black obsidian "tear" and the gray > >> enveloping pumice is glassy and distinct. > >> > >> Thanks. > >> > >> Tom Hanley, Prof. of Geology > >> Department of Chemistry and Geology, C.S.U. > >> 4225 University Ave., Columbus, GA 31907-5645 > >> VOX: (706) 568-2075; FAX: (706) 569-3133 > >> See our Departmental home page http://chemgeo.colstate.edu/ > >> > >> Links to the ACRES projects and to Panama photos may be found at: > >> http://chemgeo.ColState.edu/th_hp.htm > >> > >> "Rock Trails in Central Park" co-authored with M.M. Graff, is available > >> for > >> download at http://www.greenswardparks.org > >> > >> ============================================================== > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Mon Jun 12 06:57:46 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Mon Jun 12 06:57:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] where can I get? In-Reply-To: <001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> References: <007801c68772$c4dcbd20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <002201c68780$9ff0f450$0c834c0c@LarryRush> <001101c689a1$caece2e0$89814c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <448D72DA.40206@jeanniusdesigns.com> I'm looking for drusy pyrite rough. I bought a few pieces a few years ago and have started using them in some jewelry, but I only have a few small pieces left. I can do my own cabbing, but I'm having trouble finding more. The material I'm looking for is just the druzy on another stone base...not the kind that has a fossilized shell as a basis. thanks, jeanne ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Mon Jun 12 10:19:35 2006 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Mon Jun 12 10:19:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling In-Reply-To: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> References: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> A few inconvenient facts about Dr. Robert C. Balling Jr According to Harper's, Balling has received more than $200,000 from coal and oil interests over the past six years. Specific incidences include significant levels of funding since 1989 from the Kuwaiti government, foreign coal and mining corporations and Cyprus Minerals Company (totaling $72,554). (Kuwait has opposed the findings of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change). The Kuwaiti government paid for a release of Balling's "A Heated Debate" in the Middle East, a project originally funded by the Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy. The Kuwait Foundation for the Advancement of Science granted Balling $48,993 and the Kuwait Institute for Scientific Research granted him an undisclosed amount. British Coal Corporation gave him a total of $103,544 and the German Coal Mining Association gave him $81,780 in two separate grants. (Ozone Action, NCPPR directory) from this website http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_C._Balling,_Jr. http://www.epilogicconsulting.com/cascadiac/altviews.htm Balling has acknowledged that he had received $408,000 in research funding from the fossil fuel industry over the last decade (of which his University takes 50% for overhead). Contributors include ExxonMobil, the British Coal Corporation, Cyprus Minerals and OPEC. from this website http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Robert_C._Balling Erich Kern wrote: > >Inconvenient Truths Indeed >By Dr. Robert C. Balling Jr. : ' >Tech Central Station' // 24 May 2006 > >Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" opens around the country this week. In the film Gore pulls >together evidence from every corner of the globe to convince us that climate change is happening >fast, we are to blame, and if we don't act immediately, our Earth will be all but ruined. >However, as you sit through the film, consider the following inconvenient truths: > >(1) Near the beginning of the film, Gore pays respects to his Harvard mentor and inspiration, >Dr. Roger Revelle. Gore praises Revelle for his discovery that atmospheric CO2 levels were >rising and could potentially contribute to higher temperatures at a global scale. There is no >mention, however, of Revelle's article published in the early 1990s concluding that the science >is "too uncertain to justify drastic action." (S.F. Singer, C. Starr, and R. Revelle, "What to >do about Greenhouse Warming: Look Before You Leap. Cosmos 1 (1993) 28-33.) > >(2) Gore discusses glacial and snowpack retreats atop Kenya's Mt. Kilimanjaro, implying that >human induced global warming is to blame. But Gore fails to mention that the snows of >Kilimanjaro have been retreating for more than 100 years, largely due to declining atmospheric >moisture, not global warming. Gore does not acknowledge the two major articles on the subject >published in 2004 in the International Journal of Climatology and the Journal of Geophysical >Research showing that modern glacier retreat on Kilimanjaro was initiated by a reduction in >precipitation at the end of the nineteenth century and not by local or global warming. > >(3) Many of Gore's conclusions are based on the "Hockey Stick" that shows near constant global >temperatures for 1,000 years with a sharp increase in temperature from 1900 onward. The record >Gore chooses in the film completely wipes out the Medieval Warm Period of 1,000 years ago and >Little Ice Age that started 500 years ago and ended just over 100 years ago. There is evidence >from throughout the world that these climate episodes existed, but on Gore's Hockey Stick, they >become nothing more than insignificant fluctuations (Gore even jokes at one point about the >Medieval Warm period). > >(4) You will certainly not be surprised to see Katrina, other hurricanes, tornadoes, flash >floods, and many types of severe weather events linked by Gore to global warming. However, if >one took the time to read the downloadable "Summary for Policymakers" in the latest report from >the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), one would learn that "No >systematic changes in the frequency of tornadoes, thunder days, or hail events are evident in >the limited areas analysed" and that "Changes globally in tropical and extra-tropical storm >intensity and frequency are dominated by inter-decadal and multi-decadal variations, with no >significant trends evident over the 20th century." > >(5) Gore claims that sea-level rise could drown the Pacific islands, Florida, major cities the >world over, and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. No mention is made of the fact that sea >level has been rising at a rate of 1.8 mm per year for the past 8,000 years; the IPCC notes that >"No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been >detected." > >(6) Near the end of the film, we learn of ways the United States could reduce emissions of >greenhouse gases back to the levels of 1970. OK. Assume the United States accomplishes this >lofty goal, would we see any impact on climate? The well-known answer is NO. China, India and >many other countries are significantly increasing their emission levels, and global >concentrations of CO2 may double this century no matter what we decide to do in the United >States. Even if the Kyoto Protocol could be fully implemented to honor the opening of this >movie, the globe would be spared no more than a few hundredths of a degree of warming. > >Throughout the film, Gore displays his passion for the global warming issue, and it is obvious >that he has dedicated a substantial amount of time to learning about climate change and the >greenhouse effect. This leads to an obvious question. The Kyoto Protocol was negotiated in >December of 1997 giving the Clinton-Gore administration more than three years to present the >Protocol to the United States Senate for ratification. Given Gore's position in the Senate and >his knowledge and passion for global warming, one must wonder why then-Vice President Gore did >not seize on what appears to have been an opportunity of a lifetime? "An Inconvenient Truth" is >billed as the scariest movie you'll ever see. It may well be, but that's in part because it is >not the most accurate depiction of the state of global warming science. The enormous >uncertainties surrounding the global warming issue are conveniently missing in "An Inconvenient >Truth." > >Robert C. Balling Jr. is a professor in the climatology program at Arizona State University, >specializing in climate change and the greenhouse effect. > >************************************* > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Jun 12 10:51:20 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jun 12 10:51:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling In-Reply-To: <448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> References: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> <448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: You are displaying the typical behavior of the people who are pushing AGW as a religion. Why don't you answer the questions that he raises rather than engage in Ad Hominem attacks. All the principal investigators on the AGW side are getting money from the environmentalist factions which are no less advocacy groups than the oil companies. Reply with facts and logical arguments. That is the heart od scientific inquiry. Don't stoop to personal attacks. BK On 6/12/06, Richard Trapp wrote: > > A few inconvenient facts about Dr. Robert C. Balling Jr > > According to Harper's, Balling has received more than $200,000 from coal > and oil interests over the past six years. Specific incidences include > significant levels of funding since 1989 from the Kuwaiti government, > foreign coal and mining corporations and Cyprus Minerals Company > (totaling $72,554). (Kuwait has opposed the findings of the > Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change). The Kuwaiti government paid > for a release of Balling's "A Heated Debate" in the Middle East, a > project originally funded by the Pacific Research Institute for Public > Policy. The Kuwait Foundation for the Advancement of Science granted > Balling $48,993 and the Kuwait Institute for Scientific Research granted > him an undisclosed amount. British Coal Corporation gave him a total of > $103,544 and the German Coal Mining Association gave him $81,780 in two > separate grants. (Ozone Action, NCPPR directory) > > from this website > http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=5 > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_C._Balling,_Jr. > > http://www.epilogicconsulting.com/cascadiac/altviews.htm > > Balling has acknowledged that he had received $408,000 in research > funding from the fossil fuel industry over the last decade (of which his > University takes 50% for overhead). Contributors include ExxonMobil, the > British Coal Corporation, Cyprus Minerals and OPEC. > > from this website > http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Robert_C._Balling > > > > > Erich Kern wrote: > > > > >Inconvenient Truths Indeed > >By Dr. Robert C. Balling Jr. : ' > >Tech Central Station' // 24 May 2006 > > > >Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" opens around the country this week. In > the film Gore pulls > >together evidence from every corner of the globe to convince us that > climate change is happening > >fast, we are to blame, and if we don't act immediately, our Earth will be > all but ruined. > >However, as you sit through the film, consider the following inconvenient > truths: > > > >(1) Near the beginning of the film, Gore pays respects to his Harvard > mentor and inspiration, > >Dr. Roger Revelle. Gore praises Revelle for his discovery that > atmospheric CO2 levels were > >rising and could potentially contribute to higher temperatures at a > global scale. There is no > >mention, however, of Revelle's article published in the early 1990s > concluding that the science > >is "too uncertain to justify drastic action." (S.F. Singer, C. Starr, and > R. Revelle, "What to > >do about Greenhouse Warming: Look Before You Leap. Cosmos 1 (1993) > 28-33.) > > > >(2) Gore discusses glacial and snowpack retreats atop Kenya's Mt. > Kilimanjaro, implying that > >human induced global warming is to blame. But Gore fails to mention that > the snows of > >Kilimanjaro have been retreating for more than 100 years, largely due to > declining atmospheric > >moisture, not global warming. Gore does not acknowledge the two major > articles on the subject > >published in 2004 in the International Journal of Climatology and the > Journal of Geophysical > >Research showing that modern glacier retreat on Kilimanjaro was initiated > by a reduction in > >precipitation at the end of the nineteenth century and not by local or > global warming. > > > >(3) Many of Gore's conclusions are based on the "Hockey Stick" that shows > near constant global > >temperatures for 1,000 years with a sharp increase in temperature from > 1900 onward. The record > >Gore chooses in the film completely wipes out the Medieval Warm Period of > 1,000 years ago and > >Little Ice Age that started 500 years ago and ended just over 100 years > ago. There is evidence > >from throughout the world that these climate episodes existed, but on > Gore's Hockey Stick, they > >become nothing more than insignificant fluctuations (Gore even jokes at > one point about the > >Medieval Warm period). > > > >(4) You will certainly not be surprised to see Katrina, other hurricanes, > tornadoes, flash > >floods, and many types of severe weather events linked by Gore to global > warming. However, if > >one took the time to read the downloadable "Summary for Policymakers" in > the latest report from > >the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), one > would learn that "No > >systematic changes in the frequency of tornadoes, thunder days, or hail > events are evident in > >the limited areas analysed" and that "Changes globally in tropical and > extra-tropical storm > >intensity and frequency are dominated by inter-decadal and multi-decadal > variations, with no > >significant trends evident over the 20th century." > > > >(5) Gore claims that sea-level rise could drown the Pacific islands, > Florida, major cities the > >world over, and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. No mention is made of > the fact that sea > >level has been rising at a rate of 1.8 mm per year for the past 8,000 > years; the IPCC notes that > >"No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the > 20th century has been > >detected." > > > >(6) Near the end of the film, we learn of ways the United States could > reduce emissions of > >greenhouse gases back to the levels of 1970. OK. Assume the United States > accomplishes this > >lofty goal, would we see any impact on climate? The well-known answer is > NO. China, India and > >many other countries are significantly increasing their emission levels, > and global > >concentrations of CO2 may double this century no matter what we decide to > do in the United > >States. Even if the Kyoto Protocol could be fully implemented to honor > the opening of this > >movie, the globe would be spared no more than a few hundredths of a > degree of warming. > > > >Throughout the film, Gore displays his passion for the global warming > issue, and it is obvious > >that he has dedicated a substantial amount of time to learning about > climate change and the > >greenhouse effect. This leads to an obvious question. The Kyoto Protocol > was negotiated in > >December of 1997 giving the Clinton-Gore administration more than three > years to present the > >Protocol to the United States Senate for ratification. Given Gore's > position in the Senate and > >his knowledge and passion for global warming, one must wonder why > then-Vice President Gore did > >not seize on what appears to have been an opportunity of a lifetime? "An > Inconvenient Truth" is > >billed as the scariest movie you'll ever see. It may well be, but that's > in part because it is > >not the most accurate depiction of the state of global warming science. > The enormous > >uncertainties surrounding the global warming issue are conveniently > missing in "An Inconvenient > >Truth." > > > >Robert C. Balling Jr. is a professor in the climatology program at > Arizona State University, > >specializing in climate change and the greenhouse effect. > > > >************************************* > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Rick Trapp > Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey > rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Jun 12 11:03:59 2006 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 12 11:04:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling In-Reply-To: References: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> <448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <8C85C61B6AB0AE8-CE4-9093@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> Hi all, Where was the personal attack? The gentlemen was just showing Dr. Ballings' possible bias. He reports what he is paid to do. It is a common practice. Pay me enough, and I'll tell you what you want to hear. If you ignore the fact the earth is warming, be it from man or natural process, or a combo of both. Maybe it needs to be looked into now, rather than years down the road, when the trend is irreversible. Thanks for exposing the politics of the gentleman, Richard. Dave ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Jun 12 11:11:12 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jun 12 11:11:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling In-Reply-To: <8C85C61B6AB0AE8-CE4-9093@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> References: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> <448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> <8C85C61B6AB0AE8-CE4-9093@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: He hasn't exposed any biases. And again I urge people to answer agruments with facts. If you think he is wrong then say why he is wrong, don't say I won't listen to what he has to say. That is what you are doing. As an example of this you can go to the major AGW proponent sites and post a skeptical question. Almost always that post will be deleted. A AGW supporter can go to a skeptics site and post and he will be greeted with rational discussion. So let's have rational discussion. BK On 6/12/06, betdav97@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi all, > Where was the personal attack? The gentlemen was just showing Dr. > Ballings' > possible bias. He reports what he is paid to do. It is a common practice. > Pay > me enough, and I'll tell you what you want to hear. If you ignore the fact > the > earth is warming, be it from man or natural process, or a combo of both. > Maybe > it needs to be looked into now, rather than years down the road, when the > trend is irreversible. Thanks for exposing the politics of the gentleman, > Richard. > Dave > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and > IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Mon Jun 12 11:27:10 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Mon Jun 12 11:26:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling References: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> <448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <000301c68e4d$d284c3a0$bbfdf604@TheBlackAdder> Typical....... When the left is incapable of debating the issue, when the facts don't support their position, it's time for character assasination and questioning motives. Never mind that what Dr. Balling says is true. Those of us who disagree with the Kyoto crowd don't crow about the corrupting influence of UN or EPA funding to support a statist agenda. We don't have to. The science speaks for itself. Leave the questioning of motives to the crystal ball gazers and stick to what we know about the science please. Erich Kern ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Trapp" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 10:19 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling A few inconvenient facts about Dr. Robert C. Balling Jr According to Harper's, Balling has received more than $200,000 from coal and oil interests over the past six years. Specific incidences include significant levels of funding since 1989 from the Kuwaiti government, foreign coal and mining corporations and Cyprus Minerals Company (totaling $72,554). (Kuwait has opposed the findings of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change). The Kuwaiti government paid for a release of Balling's "A Heated Debate" in the Middle East, a project originally funded by the Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy. The Kuwait Foundation for the Advancement of Science granted Balling $48,993 and the Kuwait Institute for Scientific Research granted him an undisclosed amount. British Coal Corporation gave him a total of $103,544 and the German Coal Mining Association gave him $81,780 in two separate grants. (Ozone Action, NCPPR directory) from this website http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.php?id=5 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_C._Balling,_Jr. http://www.epilogicconsulting.com/cascadiac/altviews.htm Balling has acknowledged that he had received $408,000 in research funding from the fossil fuel industry over the last decade (of which his University takes 50% for overhead). Contributors include ExxonMobil, the British Coal Corporation, Cyprus Minerals and OPEC. from this website http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Robert_C._Balling Erich Kern wrote: > >Inconvenient Truths Indeed >By Dr. Robert C. Balling Jr. : ' >Tech Central Station' // 24 May 2006 > >Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" opens around the country this week. In the film Gore pulls >together evidence from every corner of the globe to convince us that climate change is >happening >fast, we are to blame, and if we don't act immediately, our Earth will be all but ruined. >However, as you sit through the film, consider the following inconvenient truths: > >(1) Near the beginning of the film, Gore pays respects to his Harvard mentor and inspiration, >Dr. Roger Revelle. Gore praises Revelle for his discovery that atmospheric CO2 levels were >rising and could potentially contribute to higher temperatures at a global scale. There is no >mention, however, of Revelle's article published in the early 1990s concluding that the science >is "too uncertain to justify drastic action." (S.F. Singer, C. Starr, and R. Revelle, "What to >do about Greenhouse Warming: Look Before You Leap. Cosmos 1 (1993) 28-33.) > >(2) Gore discusses glacial and snowpack retreats atop Kenya's Mt. Kilimanjaro, implying that >human induced global warming is to blame. But Gore fails to mention that the snows of >Kilimanjaro have been retreating for more than 100 years, largely due to declining atmospheric >moisture, not global warming. Gore does not acknowledge the two major articles on the subject >published in 2004 in the International Journal of Climatology and the Journal of Geophysical >Research showing that modern glacier retreat on Kilimanjaro was initiated by a reduction in >precipitation at the end of the nineteenth century and not by local or global warming. > >(3) Many of Gore's conclusions are based on the "Hockey Stick" that shows near constant global >temperatures for 1,000 years with a sharp increase in temperature from 1900 onward. The record >Gore chooses in the film completely wipes out the Medieval Warm Period of 1,000 years ago and >Little Ice Age that started 500 years ago and ended just over 100 years ago. There is evidence >from throughout the world that these climate episodes existed, but on Gore's Hockey Stick, they >become nothing more than insignificant fluctuations (Gore even jokes at one point about the >Medieval Warm period). > >(4) You will certainly not be surprised to see Katrina, other hurricanes, tornadoes, flash >floods, and many types of severe weather events linked by Gore to global warming. However, if >one took the time to read the downloadable "Summary for Policymakers" in the latest report from >the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), one would learn that "No >systematic changes in the frequency of tornadoes, thunder days, or hail events are evident in >the limited areas analysed" and that "Changes globally in tropical and extra-tropical storm >intensity and frequency are dominated by inter-decadal and multi-decadal variations, with no >significant trends evident over the 20th century." > >(5) Gore claims that sea-level rise could drown the Pacific islands, Florida, major cities the >world over, and the 9/11 Memorial in New York City. No mention is made of the fact that sea >level has been rising at a rate of 1.8 mm per year for the past 8,000 years; the IPCC notes >that >"No significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been >detected." > >(6) Near the end of the film, we learn of ways the United States could reduce emissions of >greenhouse gases back to the levels of 1970. OK. Assume the United States accomplishes this >lofty goal, would we see any impact on climate? The well-known answer is NO. China, India and >many other countries are significantly increasing their emission levels, and global >concentrations of CO2 may double this century no matter what we decide to do in the United >States. Even if the Kyoto Protocol could be fully implemented to honor the opening of this >movie, the globe would be spared no more than a few hundredths of a degree of warming. > >Throughout the film, Gore displays his passion for the global warming issue, and it is obvious >that he has dedicated a substantial amount of time to learning about climate change and the >greenhouse effect. This leads to an obvious question. The Kyoto Protocol was negotiated in >December of 1997 giving the Clinton-Gore administration more than three years to present the >Protocol to the United States Senate for ratification. Given Gore's position in the Senate and >his knowledge and passion for global warming, one must wonder why then-Vice President Gore did >not seize on what appears to have been an opportunity of a lifetime? "An Inconvenient Truth" is >billed as the scariest movie you'll ever see. It may well be, but that's in part because it is >not the most accurate depiction of the state of global warming science. The enormous >uncertainties surrounding the global warming issue are conveniently missing in "An Inconvenient >Truth." > >Robert C. Balling Jr. is a professor in the climatology program at Arizona State University, >specializing in climate change and the greenhouse effect. > >************************************* > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Jun 12 11:33:00 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Mon Jun 12 11:36:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] AGW References: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder><448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> <000301c68e4d$d284c3a0$bbfdf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <009001c68e4e$a6f1b710$0200a8c0@warren> All right, guys - you're kind of getting outside the envelope on this. It's been a six day topic and been kept pretty calm, but I'm starting to get nervous! lol Perhaps this discussion would be best carried on offlist? Julie List Owner From albalmer at att.net Mon Jun 12 11:56:48 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Jun 12 11:56:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling In-Reply-To: <8C85C61B6AB0AE8-CE4-9093@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> References: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> <448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> <8C85C61B6AB0AE8-CE4-9093@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:03:59 -0400, betdav97@aol.com wrote: > >Hi all, > Where was the personal attack? The gentlemen was just showing Dr. Ballings' >possible bias. He reports what he is paid to do. It is a common practice. Pay >me enough, and I'll tell you what you want to hear. Even if the previous post was not an ad hominem attack, this one surely is! As Erich said, if you disagree with Dr. Balling, attack his facts, not him. >If you ignore the fact the >earth is warming, be it from man or natural process, or a combo of both. Maybe >it needs to be looked into now, rather than years down the road, when the >trend is irreversible. Thanks for exposing the politics of the gentleman, Richard. >Dave -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Jun 12 13:02:16 2006 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 12 13:02:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling In-Reply-To: References: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> <448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> <8C85C61B6AB0AE8-CE4-9093@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C85C723D08CC2B-1214-6CE0@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> My apologies, but I have rearead the mails sveral times, and I still see no personal attack. Please point out to me where it is and show me your facts, Dave -----Original Message----- From: Al Balmer To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Cc: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:56:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:03:59 -0400, betdav97@aol.com wrote: > >Hi all, > Where was the personal attack? The gentlemen was just showing Dr. Ballings' >possible bias. He reports what he is paid to do. It is a common practice. Pay >me enough, and I'll tell you what you want to hear. Even if the previous post was not an ad hominem attack, this one surely is! As Erich said, if you disagree with Dr. Balling, attack his facts, not him. >If you ignore the fact the >earth is warming, be it from man or natural process, or a combo of both. Maybe >it needs to be looked into now, rather than years down the road, when the >trend is irreversible. Thanks for exposing the politics of the gentleman, Richard. >Dave -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Mon Jun 12 16:10:33 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Jun 12 16:10:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling In-Reply-To: <8C85C723D08CC2B-1214-6CE0@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> References: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> <448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> <8C85C61B6AB0AE8-CE4-9093@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> <8C85C723D08CC2B-1214-6CE0@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 16:02:16 -0400, betdav97@aol.com wrote: > >My apologies, but I have rearead the mails sveral times, and I still see no >personal attack. Please point out to me where it is and show me your facts, >Dave "He reports what he is paid to do. It is a common practice. Pay me enough, and I'll tell you what you want to hear." Original context below. I have no idea what your vocation is, but if you were a scientist, dedicated to the pursuit of truth, with your reputation dependent on your ability to fairly evaluate fact, and someone accused you of selling that reputation to the highest bidder, wouldn't you consider that a personal attack? I won't even comment on you claim that such perfidy is "common practice" among scientists. Thankfully, you're wrong. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Al Balmer >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Cc: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Sent: Mon, 12 Jun 2006 11:56:48 -0700 >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling > > >On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:03:59 -0400, betdav97@aol.com wrote: > >> >>Hi all, >> Where was the personal attack? The gentlemen was just showing Dr. Ballings' >>possible bias. He reports what he is paid to do. It is a common practice. Pay >>me enough, and I'll tell you what you want to hear. > >Even if the previous post was not an ad hominem attack, this one >surely is! > >As Erich said, if you disagree with Dr. Balling, attack his facts, not >him. > >>If you ignore the fact the >>earth is warming, be it from man or natural process, or a combo of both. Maybe >>it needs to be looked into now, rather than years down the road, when the >>trend is irreversible. Thanks for exposing the politics of the gentleman, >Richard. >>Dave -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From betdav97 at aol.com Mon Jun 12 16:36:48 2006 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 12 16:36:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling In-Reply-To: References: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> <448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> <8C85C61B6AB0AE8-CE4-9093@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> <8C85C723D08CC2B-1214-6CE0@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C85C90353A6713-8FC-2971@mblk-d50.sysops.aol.com> Dear Al, I am an enviromental chemist by trade, specializing in Mine Acid Discharges and sewage. In our state, paying off someone is a very common practice, and there is absolutly no reason to think it does not occur else where. And believe me, I have been accused of many things, including your accusations, it is all part of being a professional; you learn to roll with the punches. Again, where are your facts and how do you support your accusations against me? I have done nothing, except to thank Rick for adding some information about the good doctor. This is turning into a stupid list. Lets get back to rocks, please. >From now on, please address your comments privately to me and keep them off the list. If what I said is UNTRUE, than give me your facts to support your side. Thankyou, Dave Betdav97@aol.com or Wvfossils@aol.com your choice. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Mon Jun 12 16:49:40 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Mon Jun 12 16:44:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1D2C662E-FA6E-11DA-938D-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi All, I fear the thread may be beginning to tug at its leash, threatening to veer off into a discussion of scientific integrity - a fascinating field - but not remarkably geological. But while we were still on climate change and the anthropogenicity of it or lack thereof, I learnt a lot, from people far better informed than I am, who took the time to present detailed thoughts and arguments. In fact, up to now, this has been, for me, an avidly followed thread. To the contributors, my thanks and esteem. Cheers Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Jun 12 16:44:43 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Mon Jun 12 16:47:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] End of Global Warming discussion please. References: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> <448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> <8C85C61B6AB0AE8-CE4-9093@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> <8C85C723D08CC2B-1214-6CE0@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> <8C85C90353A6713-8FC-2971@mblk-d50.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00fb01c68e7a$3392f0a0$0200a8c0@warren> OK, guys - that's it. If you want to carry this conversation on further, take it off list. Much more of this and I'll set the list to moderated. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling > > Dear Al, > I am an enviromental chemist by trade, specializing in Mine Acid > Discharges > and sewage. In our state, paying off someone is a very common practice, > and > there is absolutly no reason to think it does not occur else where. And > believe > me, I have been accused of many things, including your accusations, it is > all > part of being a professional; you learn to roll with the punches. > Again, where are your facts and how do you support your accusations > against > me? I have done nothing, except to thank Rick for adding some information > about > the good doctor. This is turning into a stupid list. Lets get back to > rocks, please. >>From now on, please address your comments privately to me and keep them >>off > the list. If what I said is UNTRUE, than give me your facts to support > your side. > Thankyou, > Dave > Betdav97@aol.com or > Wvfossils@aol.com your choice. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and > IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From ki3u at hotmail.com Mon Jun 12 16:55:18 2006 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Mon Jun 12 16:55:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling In-Reply-To: <1D2C662E-FA6E-11DA-938D-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: Hans Durstling wrote Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:49:40 -0300: "> >Hi All, > >I fear the thread may be beginning to tug at its leash, threatening to veer >off into a discussion of scientific integrity - a fascinating field - but >not remarkably geological. But while we were still on climate change and >the anthropogenicity of it or lack thereof, I learnt a lot, from people far >better informed than I am, who took the time to present detailed thoughts >and arguments. In fact, up to now, this has been, for me, an avidly >followed thread. To the contributors, my thanks and esteem. >" I agree with that. And I sympathisize with Julie who must be on the edge of her seat monitoring. But almost every post in this thread has been informative, and I have not felt like I'm in the fairways of a convention on trade magazine publishing, when I thought I was going to a geo-sciences convention. And I don't think this list is turning stupid; temporary parts of it maybe, debatable, but not the list. Berj From albalmer at att.net Mon Jun 12 17:02:08 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Jun 12 17:02:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling In-Reply-To: <8C85C90353A6713-8FC-2971@mblk-d50.sysops.aol.com> References: <001701c68d10$2e14dc30$7df9f604@TheBlackAdder> <448DA227.4030207@azgs.az.gov> <8C85C61B6AB0AE8-CE4-9093@mblk-d40.sysops.aol.com> <8C85C723D08CC2B-1214-6CE0@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> <8C85C90353A6713-8FC-2971@mblk-d50.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <37vr82ld0r5bnf11mdp5k4ml3e6qb4v8et@4ax.com> On Mon, 12 Jun 2006 19:36:48 -0400, betdav97@aol.com wrote: > > Dear Al, > I am an enviromental chemist by trade, specializing in Mine Acid Discharges >and sewage. In our state, paying off someone is a very common practice, and >there is absolutly no reason to think it does not occur else where. That's sad. If it's true, and you can prove it, don't you as a professional have an obligation to report what you know to the proper authorities? >And believe >me, I have been accused of many things, including your accusations, it is all >part of being a professional; you learn to roll with the punches. > Again, where are your facts and how do you support your accusations against >me? The only accusation I have made against you (that you accused Dr. Balling of improper conduct) I have already supported by a direct quote, which you have chosen to elide. It's still there, for anyone who has followed this thread. >I have done nothing, except to thank Rick for adding some information about >the good doctor. No, you have gone further, you have made a direct accusation about Dr Balling's professional conduct, while presenting no evidence. > This is turning into a stupid list. Lets get back to rocks, please. >>From now on, please address your comments privately to me and keep them off >the list. So, you are hoping to have the last public word, while omitting any previous writing that's "inconvenient" for you. >If what I said is UNTRUE, than give me your facts to support your side. Hardly. Since you made the accusation, it's up to you to present evidence of Dr. Balling's malfeasance. I'm done with this subject, either in public or in private. I killed the original thread, and would have killed this one, had you not made your unsupported accusation that Dr. Balling's factual analysis of a politically motivated and obviously biased "documentary" was made because he was "paid off." -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Jun 12 17:10:23 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Jun 12 17:10:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling In-Reply-To: References: <1D2C662E-FA6E-11DA-938D-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: I agree that this part of the conversation seems to have been killed by the usual tactics. They cannot answer in any logical way so they scheme to throw the thread off topic and kill it that way. BK On 6/12/06, Berj N. Ensanian wrote: > > > Hans Durstling wrote Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:49:40 -0300: > > "> > >Hi All, > > > >I fear the thread may be beginning to tug at its leash, threatening to > veer > >off into a discussion of scientific integrity - a fascinating field - but > >not remarkably geological. But while we were still on climate change and > >the anthropogenicity of it or lack thereof, I learnt a lot, from people > far > >better informed than I am, who took the time to present detailed thoughts > >and arguments. In fact, up to now, this has been, for me, an avidly > >followed thread. To the contributors, my thanks and esteem. > >" > > > I agree with that. And I sympathisize with Julie who must be on the edge > of > her seat monitoring. But almost every post in this thread has been > informative, and I have not felt like I'm in the fairways of a convention > on > trade magazine publishing, when I thought I was going to a geo-sciences > convention. And I don't think this list is turning stupid; temporary parts > of it maybe, debatable, but not the list. > > Berj > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Jun 12 17:15:43 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Mon Jun 12 17:18:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Admin] List is Moderated. References: <1D2C662E-FA6E-11DA-938D-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <012801c68e7e$8a618c30$0200a8c0@warren> Putting the list on moderation until tomorrow AM. Any posts on this topic will not be forwarded. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inconvenient Truths Indeed by Dr. Robert C. Balling >I agree that this part of the conversation seems to have been killed by the > usual tactics. They cannot answer in any logical way so they scheme to > throw > the thread off topic and kill it that way. > > BK > > On 6/12/06, Berj N. Ensanian wrote: >> >> >> Hans Durstling wrote Mon, 12 Jun 2006 20:49:40 -0300: >> >> "> >> >Hi All, >> > >> >I fear the thread may be beginning to tug at its leash, threatening to >> veer >> >off into a discussion of scientific integrity - a fascinating field - >> >but >> >not remarkably geological. But while we were still on climate change and >> >the anthropogenicity of it or lack thereof, I learnt a lot, from people >> far >> >better informed than I am, who took the time to present detailed >> >thoughts >> >and arguments. In fact, up to now, this has been, for me, an avidly >> >followed thread. To the contributors, my thanks and esteem. >> >" >> >> >> I agree with that. And I sympathisize with Julie who must be on the edge >> of >> her seat monitoring. But almost every post in this thread has been >> informative, and I have not felt like I'm in the fairways of a convention >> on >> trade magazine publishing, when I thought I was going to a geo-sciences >> convention. And I don't think this list is turning stupid; temporary >> parts >> of it maybe, debatable, but not the list. >> >> Berj >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rockcurrier at cs.com Mon Jun 12 17:18:43 2006 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Jun 12 17:21:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Why pyrites from the Glendon pyrophyllite are not seen with dealers References: <200606092026.k59KQMJO009342@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <005a01c68e7e$ee890b20$6701a8c0@rock3> For dealers to carry specimens in their inventory they need to be able to make money and the material needs to be commercial in other words all people involved need to be able to be able to make some money. If you add up all the man hours spent by collectors collecting pyrite at the Glendon pyrophylllite quarry (including drive time) and multiply it by minimum wage you will probably come up with quite a tidy sum. Add to that the cost of gas, wear and tear on the vehicles as well as the cost of food you will come up with another tidy sum. Now calculate the retail price of all the pyrite collected. I would be surprised if it would be equal to even 10% of the cost of collecting it. That is why dealers don't have this in item in inventory. It can't compete with pyrite from Peru. But it is the thrill of the hunt, that is the reason people field collect. Some even manage to dream that they made some money doing it. It is like all the people who go to Los Vegas and never admit that they lost money. That is not why they go to Vegas or buy lottery tickets. The next time they could be the big winner, right? It could happen!! I understand. Been there, done that. Rock From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Jun 12 21:22:06 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Jun 12 21:44:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Group field trip to Mica Mountain, Idaho, June 24 Message-ID: <448E3D6E.6080107@verizon.net> Hi group, I would like to invite any nearby list members to a field trip to Mica Mountain, near Deary, Idaho. This is the site I discussed in one of my recent posts. This will be Saturday, June 24. A few people expressed interest in the area so I thought we could go back. The Siebels will be going as well as one or two other list members so far. I can guarantee you will find muscovite, quartz, tourmaline, and feldspars; who knows what else in this pegamite/schist formation. I can't guarantee you would find something worth putting on your shelf, but hey, it's a field trip, and there is some luck and hard work involved; I do know that minerals are all around, many loose and for the picking. The view is nice too. Sorry, I would not call this site handicapped-accessible; if you have special needs, contact me off-list and I'll discuss the terrain with you; being partially disabled myself I have a pretty good idea of what's what. Some of the small, euhedral tourmalines require digging out of the host rock, but it is easy digging. The walk up to the mine site from the road is not far. I recommend the usual rock hammer, chisels, and picks of your choice; bucket or bag; water & whatever food you'd want; and since I saw the single euhedral beryl crystal in a pile of fines, the motivated collector will bring sieves with 1/4" and 1/8" openings. Whistle & cell phone recommended; as well as bug spray and sun hat or sunscreen. At least one member will meet us at the site, but I'm meeting the Siebels at the pink cafe near Santa. If you would like to go, let me know off-list, and we'll make a firm time. Best to all, Don J. Halterman, Jr. From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Jun 12 21:55:08 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Jun 12 23:31:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Group field trip to Mica Mountain, Idaho, June 24 References: <448E3D6E.6080107@verizon.net> Message-ID: <00b201c68ea5$8f8f7790$0300a8c0@Notebook> The Pink Cafe is the Fernnood Cafe in Fernwood.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 9:22 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Group field trip to Mica Mountain, Idaho, June 24 > > Hi group, > > I would like to invite any nearby list members to a field trip to Mica > Mountain, near Deary, Idaho. This is the site I discussed in one of my > recent posts. This will be Saturday, June 24. > > A few people expressed interest in the area so I thought we could go > back. The Siebels will be going as well as one or two other list members > so far. > > I can guarantee you will find muscovite, quartz, tourmaline, and > feldspars; who knows what else in this pegamite/schist formation. I > can't guarantee you would find something worth putting on your shelf, but > hey, it's a field trip, and there is some luck and hard work involved; I > do know that minerals are all around, many loose and for the picking. > The view is nice too. Sorry, I would not call this site > handicapped-accessible; if you have special needs, contact me off-list > and I'll discuss the terrain with you; being partially disabled myself I > have a pretty good idea of what's what. Some of the small, euhedral > tourmalines require digging out of the host rock, but it is easy digging. > The walk up to the mine site from the road is not far. I recommend the > usual rock hammer, chisels, and picks of your choice; bucket or bag; > water & whatever food you'd want; and since I saw the single euhedral > beryl crystal in a pile of fines, the motivated collector will bring > sieves with 1/4" and 1/8" openings. Whistle & cell phone recommended; as > well as bug spray and sun hat or sunscreen. > > At least one member will meet us at the site, but I'm meeting the Siebels > at the pink cafe near Santa. If you would like to go, let me know > off-list, and we'll make a firm time. > > > Best to all, > Don J. Halterman, Jr. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jun 13 07:08:46 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jun 13 07:08:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Group field trip to Mica Mountain, Idaho, June 24 Message-ID: <061320061408.21312.448EC6EE0003975500005340215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> So just out of curiosity, Don & John, what part of Idaho is this in (not that I'm going). I must apologize, I don't remember (maybe never read it) the earlier post, and I've never heard of Mica Mountain, Idaho. Deary, Fernwood, and Santa do not quite mean anything to me; I judge that they are not some of Idaho's major cities. (About the only area I'm much familiar with personally is John Cornish's stomping ground near the Salmon River in eastern Idaho.) Pete -------------- Original message from "John Siebel" : -------------- > The Pink Cafe is the Fernnood Cafe in Fernwood.. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DonH" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 9:22 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Group field trip to Mica Mountain, Idaho, June 24 > > > > > > Hi group, > > > > I would like to invite any nearby list members to a field trip to Mica > > Mountain, near Deary, Idaho. This is the site I discussed in one of my > > recent posts. This will be Saturday, June 24. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Jun 13 10:57:38 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Jun 13 10:55:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Group field trip to Mica Mountain, Idaho, June 24 In-Reply-To: <061320061408.21312.448EC6EE0003975500005340215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <061320061408.21312.448EC6EE0003975500005340215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <448EFC92.5060407@verizon.net> pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > So just out of curiosity, Don & John, what part of Idaho is this in (not that I'm going). I must apologize, I don't remember (maybe never read it) the earlier post, and I've never heard of Mica Mountain, Idaho. Deary, Fernwood, and Santa do not quite mean anything to me; I judge that they are not some of Idaho's major cities. (About the only area I'm much familiar with personally is John Cornish's stomping ground near the Salmon River in eastern Idaho.) Hi Pete, Well you could always take a plane ride! In my previous posts I may have discussed that these localities are in the panhandle, not far from the Eastern Washington border. You are right, these are all pretty small towns; but, they can be found in a search. From what I understand, this pegmatite was a great source of mica in decades past; I'd need to ask my advisor again about the details, but I think a lot of it was used in WWII. This is one reason I report these trips; I'd imagine a lot of these smaller and more obscure localities are under-reported and, for those who make lists, you are free to cut-and-paste any information I post into your localities file. Don From pjmodreski at att.net Tue Jun 13 11:13:15 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Tue Jun 13 11:13:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Group field trip to Mica Mountain, Idaho, June 24 Message-ID: <061320061813.24765.448F003B0000FAF3000060BD216028074807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Thanks for the info, Don. I figured it was in the panhandle, but maybe could have been around the Sawtooth Mountains too. I knew I could have just looked up those places online most anywhere, but I figured it was more fun to ask you back, and then I'd get a little more information. I know there were a lot of mica-bearing pegmatites that were mined formerly, sprinkled all over the western (and eastern) states (and most are described in the several old USGS reports on mica-bearing pegmatites). Precious few of them in Indiana or Ohio, though! : ) Pete -------------- Original message from DonH : -------------- > pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > So just out of curiosity, Don & John, what part of Idaho is this in (not that > I'm going). I must apologize, I don't remember (maybe never read it) the > earlier post, and I've never heard of Mica Mountain, Idaho. Deary, Fernwood, > and Santa do not quite mean anything to me; I judge that they are not some of > Idaho's major cities. (About the only area I'm much familiar with personally is > John Cornish's stomping ground near the Salmon River in eastern Idaho.) > > > Hi Pete, > > Well you could always take a plane ride! In my previous posts I may > have discussed that these localities are in the panhandle, not far from > the Eastern Washington border. You are right, these are all pretty > small towns; but, they can be found in a search. > > From what I understand, this pegmatite was a great source of mica in > decades past; I'd need to ask my advisor again about the details, but I > think a lot of it was used in WWII. > > This is one reason I report these trips; I'd imagine a lot of these > smaller and more obscure localities are under-reported and, for those > who make lists, you are free to cut-and-paste any information I post > into your localities file. > > > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Tue Jun 13 14:12:16 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Tue Jun 13 14:12:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? Message-ID: I was quite surprised last night while googeling something else, I saw some familiar language and found my submission to the list last week about the carbide chisels from Trow Holden quoted on Amazon as a review of Trow Holden tools. http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AGO2LVBDRJGIP/102-8127651 -9295320?_encoding=UTF8 I don't quite know whether to be complemented or upset. I mailed it on the 7th. and found it there on the 12th. I am at least impressed by the speed of it all. Now they have my name and location listed on Amazon. I am leaning towards upset but wanted to get feedback from list members before going postal. What do you think? John J From libawc at emory.edu Tue Jun 13 14:17:38 2006 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita D. Westlake) Date: Tue Jun 13 14:17:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <008801c68f2e$cc4c0700$14bf8caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> I wasn't able to follow the link, but it does seem a bit "Big Brotherish" doesn't it? When I do a Google search under my name, I find all sorts of stuff about me I didn't give permission to print. On the other hand, your name, address and phone number can easily be found by simply "googling" it (usually) so it's almost too late to worry about it now. Anita Anonymous! -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Joldersma Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 4:12 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Cc: John Joldersma Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? I was quite surprised last night while googeling something else, I saw some familiar language and found my submission to the list last week about the carbide chisels from Trow Holden quoted on Amazon as a review of Trow Holden tools. http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AGO2LVBDRJGIP/102-8127651 -9295320?_encoding=UTF8 I don't quite know whether to be complemented or upset. I mailed it on the 7th. and found it there on the 12th. I am at least impressed by the speed of it all. Now they have my name and location listed on Amazon. I am leaning towards upset but wanted to get feedback from list members before going postal. What do you think? John J _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Jun 13 14:22:53 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Jun 13 14:21:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <448F2CAD.1000300@verizon.net> John Joldersma wrote: > I was quite surprised last night while googeling something else, I saw > some familiar language and found my > submission to the list last week about the carbide chisels from Trow > Holden quoted on Amazon as a review > of Trow Holden tools. I don't want to take up a lot of space on the issue, but I am appalled for a variety of reasons. How sleazy. You are fully justified in whatever invective you unleash on them. At the least you should demand removal and an apology. From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Tue Jun 13 14:29:34 2006 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Tue Jun 13 14:30:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <448F2CAD.1000300@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000001c68f30$84f52ba0$c745450a@KayDesk> Agree 100%. Silly question how many of the 101 reviews did you actually write? Kay John Joldersma wrote: > I was quite surprised last night while googeling something else, I saw > some familiar language and found my submission to the list last week > about the carbide chisels from Trow Holden quoted on Amazon as a > review of Trow Holden tools. And Don H replied > I don't want to take up a lot of space on the issue, but I am appalled > for a variety of reasons. How sleazy. You are fully justified in whatever > invective you unleash on them. At the least you should demand removal > and an apology. From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Jun 13 14:27:44 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Tue Jun 13 14:30:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? References: Message-ID: <005001c68f30$3a19f660$0200a8c0@warren> Are *any* of the reviews on the page yours, John? Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Joldersma" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: "John Joldersma" Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 2:12 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? >I was quite surprised last night while googeling something else, I saw >some familiar language and found my > submission to the list last week about the carbide chisels from Trow > Holden quoted on Amazon as a review > of Trow Holden tools. > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AGO2LVBDRJGIP/102-8127651 -9295320?_encoding=UTF8 > > I don't quite know whether to be complemented or upset. I mailed it on > the 7th. and found it there on the 12th. > I am at least impressed by the speed of it all. Now they have my name > and location listed on Amazon. > I am leaning towards upset but wanted to get feedback from list members > before going postal. > > What do you think? John J > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Jun 13 15:41:05 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Jun 13 15:39:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? References: Message-ID: <448F3E81.6BC7@Tomaszewski.net> >From the List Rules at http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/rules.html IV.COPYRIGHT, PRIVACY, AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY: A.Rockhounds is a non-commercial list; you MAY NOT use ANY postings from this list in a commercial manner without the express written permission of the author. Copyright is retained by the author of the message or post. It is up to individual posters to defend their own copyrights and intellectual property rights. The doctrine of fair use does apply, so long as the original author, and the List, are credited. B.Archival or inclusion of the messages contained within the rockhounds archives or taken from the list directly for other than personal, non-commercial use, is prohibited. This includes websites that offer to subscribe you to mailing lists (onelist.com, Yahoo GroupsTM, etc). C.The rockhounds mailing list information, which includes subscriber names and email addresses, is kept private and confidential. It is not available to the general public, or to anyone requesting it. Your names and email addresses will never be sold, traded, or exploited in any manner. The Admin Team has no commercial interest in anything that goes on or comes over the list; it is run as a public service to the Internet community. John Joldersma wrote: > > I was quite surprised last night while googeling something else, I saw > some familiar language and found my > submission to the list last week about the carbide chisels from Trow > Holden quoted on Amazon as a review > of Trow Holden tools. > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AGO2LVBDRJGIP/102-8127651 > -9295320?_encoding=UTF8 > > I don't quite know whether to be complemented or upset. I mailed it on > the 7th. and found it there on the 12th. > I am at least impressed by the speed of it all. Now they have my name > and location listed on Amazon. > I am leaning towards upset but wanted to get feedback from list members > before going postal. > > What do you think? John J > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Jun 13 15:44:20 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Tue Jun 13 15:47:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? References: <448F3E81.6BC7@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <005f01c68f3a$ef3e9910$0200a8c0@warren> Jeez, Kreigh, how embarrassing. I should have known that! Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? > >From the List Rules at > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/rules.html > > > IV.COPYRIGHT, PRIVACY, AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY: > > A.Rockhounds is a non-commercial list; you MAY NOT use ANY postings > from this list in a commercial manner without the express written > permission of the author. Copyright is retained by the author of the > message or post. It is up to individual posters to defend their own > copyrights and intellectual property rights. The doctrine of fair > use does apply, so long as the original author, and the List, are > credited. > > B.Archival or inclusion of the messages contained within the > rockhounds archives or taken from the list directly for other than > personal, non-commercial use, is prohibited. This includes websites > that offer to subscribe you to mailing lists (onelist.com, Yahoo > GroupsTM, etc). > > C.The rockhounds mailing list information, which includes subscriber > names and email addresses, is kept private and confidential. It is > not available to the general public, or to anyone requesting it. > Your names and email addresses will never be sold, traded, or > exploited in any manner. The Admin Team has no commercial interest > in anything that goes on or comes over the list; it is run as a > public service to the Internet community. > > > > > John Joldersma wrote: >> >> I was quite surprised last night while googeling something else, I saw >> some familiar language and found my >> submission to the list last week about the carbide chisels from Trow >> Holden quoted on Amazon as a review >> of Trow Holden tools. >> >> http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AGO2LVBDRJGIP/102-8127651 >> -9295320?_encoding=UTF8 >> >> I don't quite know whether to be complemented or upset. I mailed it on >> the 7th. and found it there on the 12th. >> I am at least impressed by the speed of it all. Now they have my name >> and location listed on Amazon. >> I am leaning towards upset but wanted to get feedback from list members >> before going postal. >> >> What do you think? John J >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Tue Jun 13 16:15:47 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Jun 13 16:15:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:12:16 -0400, John Joldersma wrote: >I was quite surprised last night while googeling something else, I saw >some familiar language and found my >submission to the list last week about the carbide chisels from Trow >Holden quoted on Amazon as a review >of Trow Holden tools. > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AGO2LVBDRJGIP/102-8127651-9295320?_encoding=UTF8 > >I don't quite know whether to be complemented or upset. I mailed it on >the 7th. and found it there on the 12th. IMO, you should be upset, not complimented. You have a copyright in what you wrote, and it appears that Amazon has violated that copyright. I'm curious as to how it might have happened - I thought you had to log in to submit a review. I would complain to them and demand: 1. An apology for use of your work without permission and an explanation of how it happened. 2. Suitable compensation for the use already made on their web site. 3. Your option of immediate removal or further compensation for continued use. Here's the procedure: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/508088/102-4857008-7076116#copyright >From the list regulations: 4. COPYRIGHT, PRIVACY, AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY: 1. Rockhounds is a non-commercial list; you MAY NOT use ANY postings from this list in a commercial manner without the express written permission of the author. Copyright is retained by the author of the message or post. It is up to individual posters to defend their own copyrights and intellectual property rights. The doctrine of fair use does apply, so long as the original author, and the List, are credited. 2. Archival or inclusion of the messages contained within the rockhounds archives or taken from the list directly for other than personal, non-commercial use, is prohibited. This includes websites that offer to subscribe you to mailing lists (onelist.com, Yahoo GroupsTM, etc). 3. The rockhounds mailing list information, which includes subscriber names and email addresses, is kept private and confidential. It is not available to the general public, or to anyone requesting it. Your names and email addresses will never be sold, traded, or exploited in any manner. The Admin Team has no commercial interest in anything that goes on or comes over the list; it is run as a public service to the Internet community. >I am at least impressed by the speed of it all. Now they have my name >and location listed on Amazon. Didn't they already have it listed for the other 100 reviews they say you wrote? >I am leaning towards upset but wanted to get feedback from list members >before going postal. > >What do you think? John J > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From ki3u at hotmail.com Tue Jun 13 16:26:19 2006 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Tue Jun 13 16:26:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And perhaps make it all even more interesting by threatening to file a class-action lawsuit. There really is a principle in all this: the huge corporation just doing what it wants and can get away with. Fighting back isn't going to break them, but it might improve the general notion of respect for individual creativity some. Berj >From: Al Balmer >Reply-To: alremovebalmerthis@att.net, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A >mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? >Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:15:47 -0700 > >On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:12:16 -0400, John Joldersma > wrote: > > >I was quite surprised last night while googeling something else, I saw > >some familiar language and found my > >submission to the list last week about the carbide chisels from Trow > >Holden quoted on Amazon as a review > >of Trow Holden tools. > > > >http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AGO2LVBDRJGIP/102-8127651-9295320?_encoding=UTF8 > > > >I don't quite know whether to be complemented or upset. I mailed it on > >the 7th. and found it there on the 12th. > >IMO, you should be upset, not complimented. You have a copyright in >what you wrote, and it appears that Amazon has violated that >copyright. I'm curious as to how it might have happened - I thought >you had to log in to submit a review. > >I would complain to them and demand: >1. An apology for use of your work without permission and an >explanation of how it happened. >2. Suitable compensation for the use already made on their web site. >3. Your option of immediate removal or further compensation for >continued use. > >Here's the procedure: >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/508088/102-4857008-7076116#copyright > > >From the list regulations: > > 4. COPYRIGHT, PRIVACY, AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY: > 1. Rockhounds is a non-commercial list; you MAY NOT use ANY >postings from this list in a commercial manner without the express >written permission of the author. Copyright is retained by the author >of the message or post. It is up to individual posters to defend their >own copyrights and intellectual property rights. The doctrine of fair >use does apply, so long as the original author, and the List, are >credited. > 2. Archival or inclusion of the messages contained within the >rockhounds archives or taken from the list directly for other than >personal, non-commercial use, is prohibited. This includes websites >that offer to subscribe you to mailing lists (onelist.com, Yahoo >GroupsTM, etc). > 3. The rockhounds mailing list information, which includes >subscriber names and email addresses, is kept private and >confidential. It is not available to the general public, or to anyone >requesting it. Your names and email addresses will never be sold, >traded, or exploited in any manner. The Admin Team has no commercial >interest in anything that goes on or comes over the list; it is run as >a public service to the Internet community. > > > >I am at least impressed by the speed of it all. Now they have my name > >and location listed on Amazon. > >Didn't they already have it listed for the other 100 reviews they say >you wrote? > > >I am leaning towards upset but wanted to get feedback from list members > >before going postal. > > > >What do you think? John J > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >-- >Al Balmer >Sun City, AZ > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Tue Jun 13 16:48:21 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Tue Jun 13 16:43:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <005f01c68f3a$ef3e9910$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <18C821B6-FB37-11DA-AB2F-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> As far as I understand it from some years in freelance journalism, anything that you write, unless stipulated otherwise, is YOUR property whether your formally claim copyright or not. Formal claim just makes your ownership easier to defend. In this case the terms and conditions of the rockhounds list do make that formal claim. Inasmuch as their use of your review was without your permission, was not credited, and does not constitute "fair use" it is an infringement of your copyright, in which they gain a benefit from the unauthorized use of your property, as if the neighbor were to climb over fence to swim in your pool. It is a form of theft. However it may cost you more than it is worth to get this admitted and to be compensated for it (as you, in theory, have a right to be). Here's a possibility. How long is your review? Three hundred, four hundred words? It is your original work, so value it at a dollar a word, which is high but not unreasonable. Send them an invoice. Add the invoice the same amount again as a penalty for unauthorized use. Send the invoice by registered mail so they can't claim they did not receive it. Accompany it by a covering letter telling them that: - 1 in addition to compensation you also request an apology, - 2 that you are prepared to use the legal system to claim redress - 3 that if they fail to resolve the issue to your satisfaction you will send out news releases to the public media detailing (what you consider to be) their unethical practice. (Here you could present a David-versus-Amazon-Goliath perspective, "the little guy fights back.' The news media love that kind of story, and the Amazon upper echelon PR types will be quite aware of that fact.) You might do it two-stage; send the invoice first, and, when they refuse to pay, the letter. Then, when (if) they still refuse to pay, file a claim in small claims court. It's a pain in the butt for an ordinary citizen to do all this, and they count on that, else they wouldn't get away with it. But I think if you follow approximately those steps, they'll certainly take notice, and they may whip out the checkbook quicker than you'd think. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada On Tuesday, June 13, 2006, at 07:44 PM, Julie Siebel wrote: > Jeez, Kreigh, how embarrassing. I should have known that! > > Julie > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 3:41 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? > > >> >From the List Rules at >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/rules.html >> >> >> IV.COPYRIGHT, PRIVACY, AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY: >> >> A.Rockhounds is a non-commercial list; you MAY NOT use ANY postings >> from this list in a commercial manner without the express written >> permission of the author. Copyright is retained by the author of the >> message or post. It is up to individual posters to defend their own >> copyrights and intellectual property rights. The doctrine of fair >> use does apply, so long as the original author, and the List, are >> credited. >> >> B.Archival or inclusion of the messages contained within the >> rockhounds archives or taken from the list directly for other than >> personal, non-commercial use, is prohibited. This includes websites >> that offer to subscribe you to mailing lists (onelist.com, Yahoo >> GroupsTM, etc). >> >> C.The rockhounds mailing list information, which includes subscriber >> names and email addresses, is kept private and confidential. It is >> not available to the general public, or to anyone requesting it. >> Your names and email addresses will never be sold, traded, or >> exploited in any manner. The Admin Team has no commercial interest >> in anything that goes on or comes over the list; it is run as a >> public service to the Internet community. >> >> >> >> >> John Joldersma wrote: >>> >>> I was quite surprised last night while googeling something else, I >>> saw >>> some familiar language and found my >>> submission to the list last week about the carbide chisels from Trow >>> Holden quoted on Amazon as a review >>> of Trow Holden tools. >>> >>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AGO2LVBDRJGIP/102-8127651 >>> -9295320?_encoding=UTF8 >>> >>> I don't quite know whether to be complemented or upset. I mailed it >>> on >>> the 7th. and found it there on the 12th. >>> I am at least impressed by the speed of it all. Now they have my >>> name >>> and location listed on Amazon. >>> I am leaning towards upset but wanted to get feedback from list >>> members >>> before going postal. >>> >>> What do you think? John J >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Jun 13 16:59:49 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Jun 13 16:58:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <18C821B6-FB37-11DA-AB2F-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> References: <18C821B6-FB37-11DA-AB2F-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <448F5175.2080908@verizon.net> Hans Durstling wrote: > As far as I understand it from some years in freelance journalism, > anything that you write, unless stipulated otherwise, is YOUR property > whether your formally claim copyright or not. Oh what the heck, I'll add more noise... what bothers me is that I have always presumed that those "reviews" on sites like Amazon were really submitted by users directly to those sites. But not only did they steal your review, they are using it as a marketing tool, and not only that, if you had written a bad review, would they have used it??? This is the worst use of the Internet. And it's not a sleazy no-name sp*mmer, it's Amazon, a cornerstone company of the .com era! Give'em hell, double for me. And I'd go ahead and send a press release right away. To heck with them. Why pay a cent for postage and a registered letter? They either won't respond, or may give you the runaround... they know the little guys don't have many thousands to spend on lawsuits, especially considering you don't stand to gain much; and if somehow they lost a lawsuit, that's just the cost of doing business to them. They clearly violated civil law and are participating in deceptive advertising. My stomach is turning the more I think about it. Don From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 13 17:27:26 2006 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (Sandra B. Gee) Date: Tue Jun 13 17:27:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <448F5175.2080908@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20060614002726.73067.qmail@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes, this is really weird. I was thinking at first that maybe the merchant might have lifted your post from this list and signed up with an account using your name and the pasted your post onto the list.... Then, I kept looking on Amazon. I clicked on the link to read other reviews that you supposedly wrote. I noticed two other "reviews" ascribed to J.J. "John Joldersma" and those reviews also seemed like they could have been from the rockhounds list. However, those "reviews" did not seem to have anything to do with the book that was supposedly reviewed. I refer to specifically the "reviews" for It Was A Dinger by George H. Gardiner and for another book called Acres of Diamonds by RH Conwell. Maybe a case of identity fraud and not necessarily something amazon.com did. How weird.... Sandra Gee, Houston, TX --- DonH wrote: > Hans Durstling wrote: > > > As far as I understand it from some years in > freelance journalism, > > anything that you write, unless stipulated > otherwise, is YOUR property > > whether your formally claim copyright or not. > > > Oh what the heck, I'll add more noise... what > bothers me is that I have > always presumed that those "reviews" on sites like > Amazon were really > submitted by users directly to those sites. But not > only did they steal > your review, they are using it as a marketing tool, > and not only that, > if you had written a bad review, would they have > used it??? This is the > worst use of the Internet. And it's not a sleazy > no-name sp*mmer, it's > Amazon, a cornerstone company of the .com era! > Give'em hell, double for > me. And I'd go ahead and send a press release right > away. To heck with > them. Why pay a cent for postage and a registered > letter? They either > won't respond, or may give you the runaround... they > know the little > guys don't have many thousands to spend on lawsuits, > especially > considering you don't stand to gain much; and if > somehow they lost a > lawsuit, that's just the cost of doing business to > them. They clearly > violated civil law and are participating in > deceptive advertising. My > stomach is turning the more I think about it. > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jun 13 19:04:26 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jun 13 19:04:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <20060614002726.73067.qmail@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <448F5175.2080908@verizon.net> <20060614002726.73067.qmail@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: They seem to be running search bots on Amazon. BK On 6/13/06, Sandra B. Gee wrote: > > Yes, this is really weird. I was thinking at first > that maybe the merchant might have lifted your post > from this list and signed up with an account using > your name and the pasted your post onto the list.... > > Then, I kept looking on Amazon. I clicked on the link > to read other reviews that you supposedly wrote. I > noticed two other "reviews" ascribed to J.J. "John > Joldersma" and those reviews also seemed like they > could have been from the rockhounds list. However, > those "reviews" did not seem to have anything to do > with the book that was supposedly reviewed. I refer > to specifically the "reviews" for It Was A Dinger by > George H. Gardiner and for another book called Acres > of Diamonds by RH Conwell. > > Maybe a case of identity fraud and not necessarily > something amazon.com did. How weird.... > > Sandra Gee, > Houston, TX > > --- DonH wrote: > > > Hans Durstling wrote: > > > > > As far as I understand it from some years in > > freelance journalism, > > > anything that you write, unless stipulated > > otherwise, is YOUR property > > > whether your formally claim copyright or not. > > > > > > Oh what the heck, I'll add more noise... what > > bothers me is that I have > > always presumed that those "reviews" on sites like > > Amazon were really > > submitted by users directly to those sites. But not > > only did they steal > > your review, they are using it as a marketing tool, > > and not only that, > > if you had written a bad review, would they have > > used it??? This is the > > worst use of the Internet. And it's not a sleazy > > no-name sp*mmer, it's > > Amazon, a cornerstone company of the .com era! > > Give'em hell, double for > > me. And I'd go ahead and send a press release right > > away. To heck with > > them. Why pay a cent for postage and a registered > > letter? They either > > won't respond, or may give you the runaround... they > > know the little > > guys don't have many thousands to spend on lawsuits, > > especially > > considering you don't stand to gain much; and if > > somehow they lost a > > lawsuit, that's just the cost of doing business to > > them. They clearly > > violated civil law and are participating in > > deceptive advertising. My > > stomach is turning the more I think about it. > > > > Don > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Jun 13 19:09:19 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jun 13 19:09:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <448F3E81.6BC7@Tomaszewski.net> References: <448F3E81.6BC7@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060613152248.036792e0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> There was a discussion on this List a long time ago of how posts to the Rockhound List appear on Google. There didn't seem to be any way to stop that from happening. Just to test it today, I looked back to a topic introduced this past March 28 and tried putting it into Google. Try it yourself Here's the topic: Topaz Mtn (Utah) backhoe digging? I also tried {quot}charcoal made by lava{quot} and found similar results---my own post and responses by others, lifted word-for-word from the Rockhounds List. I just tried googling my own name and the first thing that came up was my job description from the Rockhounds List Rules and Policies from the website at eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/rules.html. Next came a page that Kreigh had posted on his website of pictures Bill and I took of a spectacular cloud seen from our back yard. And there was one titled {quot}Amazon.com Top Reviewers{quot} which says the following: 110372, Kitty & Bill Heacox (Hilo, HI USA) Reviews written: 0. It lists me (us) as reviewers, but says we have written 0 reviews (which is true).  Go figure. {quot}Copyright, Privacy and Intellectual Property{quot} is a fine policy to promote, but very difficult to enforce with places like Google---and amazon.com for that matter. Aloha, Kitty At 12:41 PM 6/13/2006, you wrote: >From the List Rules at http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/rules.html IV.COPYRIGHT, PRIVACY, AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY: A.Rockhounds is a non-commercial list; you MAY NOT use ANY postings from this list in a commercial manner without the express written permission of the author. Copyright is retained by the author of the message or post. It is up to individual posters to defend their own copyrights and intellectual property rights. The doctrine of fair use does apply, so long as the original author, and the List, are credited. B.Archival or inclusion of the messages contained within the rockhounds archives or taken from the list directly for other than personal, non-commercial use, is prohibited. This includes websites that offer to subscribe you to mailing lists (onelist.com, Yahoo GroupsTM, etc). C.The rockhounds mailing list information, which includes subscriber names and email addresses, is kept private and confidential. It is not available to the general public, or to anyone requesting it. Your names and email addresses will never be sold, traded, or exploited in any manner. The Admin Team has no commercial interest in anything that goes on or comes over the list; it is run as a public service to the Internet community. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Jun 13 19:18:54 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Tue Jun 13 19:21:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? References: <448F3E81.6BC7@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20060613152248.036792e0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <000a01c68f58$e727d840$0200a8c0@warren> Google is a whole different issue and I wouldn't want to block them (yes, there are ways to block google) because new rockhounders may not find us. What Google does is not a violation of copyright. On the other hand, I'm going to be looking into the Amazon thing. If anyone has any other examples, please send them to me personally. Julie Siebel P.S. *really* looking forward to this. In case you haven't figured it out by now, I am NOT a nice person ;-) jcls ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 7:09 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? > > > There was a discussion on this List a long time ago of how posts to the > Rockhound List appear on Google. There didn't seem to be any way to > stop that from happening. > > > Just to test it today, I looked back to a topic introduced this past > March 28 and tried putting it into Google. Try it yourself > Here's the topic: > > > Topaz Mtn (Utah) backhoe digging? > > > I also tried {quot}charcoal made by lava{quot} and found similar > results---my own post and responses by others, lifted word-for-word from > the Rockhounds List. > > > I just tried googling my own name and the first thing that came up was my > job description from the Rockhounds List Rules and Policies from > the website at eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/rules.html. > > > > Next came a page that Kreigh had posted on his website of pictures Bill > and I took of a spectacular cloud seen from our back yard. > > > > And there was one titled {quot}Amazon.com Top Reviewers{quot} which says > the following: > > > > > 110372, Kitty & Bill Heacox (Hilo, HI USA) > Reviews written: 0. > > > > It lists me (us) as reviewers, but says we have written 0 reviews > (which is true).  Go figure. > > > {quot}Copyright, Privacy and Intellectual Property{quot} is a fine policy > to promote, but very difficult to enforce with places like Google---and > amazon.com for that matter. > > > Aloha, Kitty > > > > > At 12:41 PM 6/13/2006, you wrote: > >>From the List Rules at > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/rules.html > > > > > IV.COPYRIGHT, PRIVACY, AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY: > > > > A.Rockhounds is a non-commercial list; you MAY NOT use ANY postings > > from this > list in a commercial manner without the express written > > permission > of the author. Copyright is retained by the author of the > > message or > post. It is up to individual posters to defend their own > > copyrights > and intellectual property rights. The doctrine of fair > > use does > apply, so long as the original author, and the List, are > > credited. > > > > B.Archival > or inclusion of the messages contained within the > > rockhounds > archives or taken from the list directly for other than > > personal, > non-commercial use, is prohibited. This includes websites > > that offer > to subscribe you to mailing lists (onelist.com, Yahoo > > GroupsTM, > etc). > > > C.The > rockhounds mailing list information, which includes subscriber > > names and > email addresses, is kept private and confidential. It is > > not > available to the general public, or to anyone requesting it. > > Your names > and email addresses will never be sold, traded, or > > exploited > in any manner. The Admin Team has no commercial interest > > in > anything that goes on or comes over the list; it is run as a > > public > service to the Internet community. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From afox at panix.com Tue Jun 13 21:50:36 2006 From: afox at panix.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Tue Jun 13 21:50:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <000a01c68f58$e727d840$0200a8c0@warren> References: <448F3E81.6BC7@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20060613152248.036792e0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <000a01c68f58$e727d840$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: > Google is a whole different issue and I wouldn't want to block them (yes, > there are ways to block google) because new rockhounders may not find us. > What Google does is not a violation of copyright. FYI: Google has been ignoring robots.txt for years. a. -- afox at panix dot com || http://www.panix.com/~afox Go: It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye... From rocknlight at aol.com Wed Jun 14 02:15:59 2006 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 14 02:16:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> TIM - I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT ONLY SPECIFIC WORDS, WHICH ARE CAPITALIZED, PUT EMPHASIS AND MEANING ON A MESSAGE- I CAN'T SEE MY CAPSLOCK, BUT I CAN EASILY READ THESE E MAILS, WHICH USUALLY HAD AN, ANT-LIKE PRINT. ANY ROCKHOUND WHO IS DOING A LOT OF CUTTING, IS MOST LIKELY DOING A LOT OF SELLING - THESE ROCK SELLERS CAN EASILY AFFORD FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL IN BULK FORM - -IF TRUTHFULLY NOT, THEN CHARGE AN EXTRA 5 TO 10 CENTS PER SLAB, TO GO TOWARD A MINERAL OIL FUND - IF A PERSON IS A HOBBY ROCKHOUND, THEN THE SAW TUB OIL SHOULD LAST FOR YEARS, ESPECIALLY IF THE MINERAL OIL IS FILTERED -- LET'S BE HONEST HERE, AND PLEASE NO OFFENSE INTENDED, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT CHANGE IS HARD FOR MANY PEOPLE AND MANY PEOPLE ARE VERY STUBBORN -COME HELL OR HIGH WATER I HAVE ACTUALLY STARTED TO NOT PURCHASE SLABS THAT SMELL OF ANY PETROL CHEMICALS -WHY SHOULD I SUBJECT MYSELF AND MY CUSTOMERS TO FOUL AND TOXIC SMELLS AND CHEMICALS, LOCKED INSIDE A Beautiful NATURAL SLAB.. ESPECIALLY WHEN ROCKHOUNDING IS SUPPOSE TO BE AN ORGANIC NATURAL HOBBY ... IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO ME, PARTICULARLY WHEN SAFER FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL IS READILY Available - MANY E BAY SELLERS ARE NOW PURPOSELY USING FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL, TO BE MORE CUSTOMER SERVICE ORIENTATED - IT IS THE ROCK PURCHASING CUSTOMERS, WHO SUPPORT SOME ROCKHOUNDERS SELLING LIFESTYLE - PAYING CUSTOMERS DESERVE 100 % FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL CUT SLABS .. ANYWAY, ALWAYS A PLEASURE SHARING INPUTS AND OPINIONS WITH YOU TIM HOPE ALL IS GOING WELL RNL -----Original Message----- From: Tim Fisher To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 06:59:06 -0700 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] MINERAL Oil or water A couple comments: 1. All caps is considered to be rude and is equivalent to shouting in an email. Please find your capslock key and turn it off. 2. Most serious lapidaries do not use mineral oil for one simple reason: cost. At $30 +/- per gallon I can afford many months of electricity for the shop before i could afford 5 gallons of the stuff. At $30 for 5 gallons, I can afford all the Pella I need. Please don't insult those of us who use more than a couple of gallons of oil a year and need a more sane solution than shelling out $1,000 or more a year for lubricant. At 12:17 PM 5/30/2006, you wrote: >TRY 100 % FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL - KINGSLEY NORTH INC. 1800 - 338-9280 > >I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY EVERYONE IS NOT USING THIS FOOD GRADE >MINERAL OIL ?? .. > >UNLESS OF COURSE SOMEONE IS SO BROKE THEY CAN'T AFFORD THE OIL YET - > >BUT IF THEY CAN AFFORD THE ELECTRICITY, THEN THE MINERAL OIL SHOULD >NOT BE A BIG PROBLEM FOR ALL OF THE TOXIC PROBLEMS IT SOLVES.. IT >HAS LITTLE TO NO SMELL - WASHES OFF EASILY WITH SOAP AND WATER AND >IS THE LEAST TOXIC OF ALL PETROLEUM OILS - BASICALLY IT IS UNSCENTED BABY OIL > >DIAMOND PACIFIC SELLS IT ALSO- > >CLUBS SHOULD USE NOTHING ELSE BUT FOOD GRADE MINERAL OIL AND PURE >WATER AND SHOULD USE OSHA COMPLIENT VENTILATION RULES -- > >GOOD LUCK > >-----Original Message----- >From: Chuck Anderson >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Sent: Sun, 28 May 2006 17:37:30 -0400 >Subject: [Rockhounds] Oil or water > > >I do lots of cutting and have 14" drop saw, a 6" and a 10" trim saw >and a 24" slab saw I"ve used all most every combination of lubri >cool and water ,It seems to me that when you use an additive the >diamonds coat over or glaze when cutting quartz, which is what I >usually cut . I turn the blade around, a little, zip with a carbide >stone, good as new but it"s a pain in the, well you know >I also use straight Allmag oil diluted with varsol, smells a bit >,but the saw is totally enclosed and vented outside, it cuts great >and no extra weight is needed >The water soluble oil is easily cleaned from the slabs but I find >the blade life is not what you have with oil.Seems we go through a >little more laundry soap when I'm using oil though. > Just thought I"de cut in > Chuck >www.mineamethyst.com > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknlight at aol.com Wed Jun 14 02:22:32 2006 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 14 02:22:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] DAN - MINERAL Oil or water In-Reply-To: <4b1.8b3a87.31af00ac@aol.com> References: <4b1.8b3a87.31af00ac@aol.com> Message-ID: <8C85DAB32F99E11-1FE8-52EC@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> DAN - GOOD POINT INDEED AND YOU ARE A SMART MAN AS WELL ! IT IS KIND OF LIKE CIGARETTE SMOKERS WHO DON'T NOTICE THEY SMELL THANKS FOR YOUR POST -----Original Message----- From: Lapidry@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:22:36 EDT Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] MINERAL Oil or water In a message dated 5/31/2006 9:59:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tim@orerockon.com writes: A couple comments: 1. All caps is considered to be rude and is equivalent to shouting in an email. Please find your capslock key and turn it off. 2. Most serious lapidaries do not use mineral oil for one simple reason: cost. At $30 +/- per gallon I can afford many months of electricity for the shop before i could afford 5 gallons of the stuff. At $30 for 5 gallons, I can afford all the Pella I need. Please don't insult those of us who use more than a couple of gallons of oil a year and need a more sane solution than shelling out $1,000 or more a year for lubricant. Tim: Kingsley charges $70 plus shipping for a 5 gallon container. More than the cost of the 12 gallons of Pella I have sitting out in the garage unused but well worth the lower level of grief from the wife over the odor........ Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 14 03:27:40 2006 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Wed Jun 14 03:27:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Colburn Gem Fest Message-ID: <20060614102740.NHWJ15153.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Hello Members, The Colburn Earth Science Museum in Asheville, NC is holding its annual Gem Fest this coming weekend, June 16,17 and 18. Further details can be accessed at , or at 828.254.7162. Sincerely, EJW From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 14 04:15:23 2006 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Wed Jun 14 04:15:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of name and info. Message-ID: <20060614111523.NSWT15153.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Dear John J: Regarding your recent "fame" on Amazon, my first reaction was that if they were to use your name and info, then they could pay you as an "agent". This has been borne out by the many comments by our list members. It just goes to show that anything that gets on the www can be used by anyone else, fairly or not. So, the object lesson is to be very careful with the information that one publishes. The second point is, that if collecting sites are broadcast on the web, then interest is aroused, and one may loose access to the area, or have many collectors "gang" the place, until the collectible material is exhausted. This has recently happened to me. My brain was picked for information, which I gave out freely, under the assumption that it would be kept in confidence. I assumed incorrectly, and altho' the co-conversant told me that he would "get back to me" regarding the situation, no such courtesy was observed. I now keep my best sites to myself, and only share with one person, who is a bona fide collector with no personal or commercial hidden agenda. It's too bad that things have reached to this point, because in the past I have been more than happy to help fellow collectors find stuff at my favorite sites. The last item re:"desk-top publishing", in all forms: Once your name gets out in front of the public, look out! A fellow collector, president of one of the mineral clubs in the NC area, and an author of a guidebook, recently complained to me about what "Someone said about me". I found the statement ludicrous, and replied that he had made himself a public figure, not only by being an author, but also by vigorous club and self promotion on the web, and by writing articles for Rock &Gem Magazine. I found his position to be ludicrous, in that he wished everyone to know him for his "accomplishments", but was very thin skinned about any criticism, both negative and positive. Such is human nature. Sincerely, EJW From johnjold at comcast.net Wed Jun 14 04:50:20 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Wed Jun 14 04:50:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? Message-ID: Thanks for the rapid attention to this issue. There were only 3 reviews under my name, none were intentional on my part. 1 from this list 2 a comment I made elsewhere about Sec of State Powell 3 never heard of it, never said it. This morning my "reviews" on Amazon is no longer there. The link comes up with someone called Fastreader. I am lead to the conclusion that someone on this list is responsible for both the inclusion of my post on Amazon and the rapid removal. I will follow up with Amazon. Lifting something from this list for commercial purposes is clearly prohibited by list rules as well as a sleazy practice that should be beneath a reputable company. From Lapidry at aol.com Wed Jun 14 05:40:10 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 14 05:40:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] DAN - MINERAL Oil or water Message-ID: <232.b7a7afb.31c15daa@aol.com> This discussion pushed me to finally order another 5 gallon jug. Kingsley charged $16 for Fed Ex Super Saver shipping - arrived in three days. Tim's right about the stuff turning to jell as it gets saturated and I don't know how long you'd have to wait for the particles to separate like they do in regular oil. Basically, you don't get to scrape the crap off the bottom and keep going. It's always a full change. You cut a heck of a lot between changes though. I've changed one saw already, another needs it. I have the old muck in double paper grocery bags and have filtered about a gallon of very clear but amber oil so far out of about 2.5 gallons of muck. With luck, I'll get about another 2/3 to 3/4 gallon. This will be mostly the oil I add to make up for the oil you loose with the slabs between changes and for the smaller saws. You place a few pieces of 2x4 scrap lumber in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket to create a space for the oil, place the paper bags on top of that, then give it time to filter. Not a fast process. I've been tempted to install a tap near the bottom to allow draining without lifting the bags out. They don't fall apart like they would with water. Use a bucket with a lid to cut down on the chance of making a mess - even though mine is sitting outside. Cut the paper grocery bags even with the top of the bucket. I haven't had any luck with mixing hot water with the oil and sitting it outside in the winter to freeze, like you can do for Pella oil. I actually do still use Pella in my bigger saws - the 24 inch and 30 inch ones. I wait for days the wife's out of the house or I can open the windows in the workshop. The 14, 12, 10 and 8 inch ones are mineral oil. The 6's and 4's (facet rough, wafer blades) are water and get drained between uses. I have them fixed up with tubing like you use for an ice maker so I don't even have to carry water over. They drain into old 5 gallon oil jugs. Just like my diamond wheels, hooked up with a few shut off valves. Don't want the muck down the drain. The back yard, on the other hand, loves the rock powder. The area I spread everything, including tumbler muck, is always greener than the rest of the yard. Around here none of the oil places carry Pella so I'm still stuck ordering it shipped. The price difference really isn't so great because of that. About $17 a gallon compared to about $12-14. I'd love $30 for 5 gallons. It'd cut my costs a fair amount each year. I'm far from in Tim's league though, a big year for me is about 25 gallons. I can't imagine $1000 of oil a year!!! My hat's off to Tim. Definitely well past hobby and into full time business!!! Hope this helps.... Dan In a message dated 6/14/2006 5:22:55 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rocknlight@aol.com writes: DAN - GOOD POINT INDEED AND YOU ARE A SMART MAN AS WELL ! IT IS KIND OF LIKE CIGARETTE SMOKERS WHO DON'T NOTICE THEY SMELL THANKS FOR YOUR POST -----Original Message----- From: Lapidry@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:22:36 EDT Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] MINERAL Oil or water In a message dated 5/31/2006 9:59:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tim@orerockon.com writes: A couple comments: 1. All caps is considered to be rude and is equivalent to shouting in an email. Please find your capslock key and turn it off. 2. Most serious lapidaries do not use mineral oil for one simple reason: cost. At $30 +/- per gallon I can afford many months of electricity for the shop before i could afford 5 gallons of the stuff. At $30 for 5 gallons, I can afford all the Pella I need. Please don't insult those of us who use more than a couple of gallons of oil a year and need a more sane solution than shelling out $1,000 or more a year for lubricant. Tim: Kingsley charges $70 plus shipping for a 5 gallon container. More than the cost of the 12 gallons of Pella I have sitting out in the garage unused but well worth the lower level of grief from the wife over the odor........ Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From edben at prodigy.net Wed Jun 14 05:46:38 2006 From: edben at prodigy.net (edben) Date: Wed Jun 14 05:46:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? References: Message-ID: <000d01c68fb0$94e59dd0$75719f04@benjamin> Hello, John. Editor Ed thought that it was a real good "review", and has it stashed away for probable use in our September Arrowhead News. Hmm. Does that put me in the same class as Amazon? Definitely not financially! Now, Drizzle does permit reprints, but it's sure my impression that this permission is intended only for non-profit use. I'd have to check the "fine print" to be sure. Kreigh Tomaszewski is in the Drizzle Inner Circle, and could be looked to as our "local expert". We've got a big sale, flea market and Silent Auction, coming this week-end, Saturday, 9 AM to 1 PM. both outside and inside the church. Drop in for the fun of it! Ed Benjamin ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Joldersma" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: "John Joldersma" Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 5:12 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? >I was quite surprised last night while googeling something else, I saw >some familiar language and found my > submission to the list last week about the carbide chisels from Trow > Holden quoted on Amazon as a review > of Trow Holden tools. > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/362 - Release Date: 06/12/2006 > > From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 05:48:16 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Jun 14 05:48:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of name and info. In-Reply-To: <20060614111523.NSWT15153.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> References: <20060614111523.NSWT15153.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040606140548w5e12e332kd35c27962dfc0853@mail.gmail.com> I find this rather amusing Ed! I am guessing that the "recent" problem you had was the Crabtree Emerald Mine. But what was done there is what any rockhound would like to see... In the past month, there has been more work done to that site since mining ceased. The old dumps have been exposed for easier collecting, the stream running out of the "pond" has been routed, a camping area has been cleared. This has all been done by volunteer work from the club. I attended last weekend and moved and burned brush with about 10 others. The thing that most people involved in this do not understand is that when the owner was contacted about the problems that were occuring (a "caretaker" was actually taking money from people at $50 a day with no authorization), his first reaction was to fence it off, post it and have it patrolled by the local law enforcement. How great would that have been? Instead, now we have to pay $15 a day to collect there, in which I have NO problem paying. We don't have to wonder who we get permission from, or if the police come by if we will be hasseled. There is now the possibility to get a machine in there and stir up the old dumps. It just seems like a win-win-win to me! My only guess is that you have problems with this because you were "in on the deal" with the "caretaker" and either getting a kickback for keeping your mouth shut or just being able to dig for free. Drew On 6/14/06, edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net wrote: > > Dear John J: > Regarding your recent "fame" on Amazon, my first reaction was that if > they were to use your name and info, then they could pay you as an "agent". > This has been borne out by the many comments by our list members. It just > goes to show that anything that gets on the www can be used by anyone else, > fairly or not. So, the object lesson is to be very careful with the > information that one publishes. > > The second point is, that if collecting sites are broadcast on the web, > then interest is aroused, and one may loose access to the area, or have many > collectors "gang" the place, until the collectible material is exhausted. > This has recently happened to me. My brain was picked for information, which > I gave out freely, under the assumption that it would be kept in confidence. > I assumed incorrectly, and altho' the co-conversant told me that he would > "get back to me" regarding the situation, no such courtesy was observed. I > now keep my best sites to myself, and only share with one person, who is a > bona fide collector with no personal or commercial hidden agenda. It's too > bad that things have reached to this point, because in the past I have been > more than happy to help fellow collectors find stuff at my favorite sites. > > The last item re:"desk-top publishing", in all forms: Once your name gets > out in front of the public, look out! A fellow collector, president of one > of the mineral clubs in the NC area, and an author of a guidebook, recently > complained to me about what "Someone said about me". I found the statement > ludicrous, and replied that he had made himself a public figure, not only by > being an author, but also by vigorous club and self promotion on the web, > and by writing articles for Rock &Gem Magazine. I found his position to be > ludicrous, in that he wished everyone to know him for his "accomplishments", > but was very thin skinned about any criticism, both negative and positive. > Such is human nature. Sincerely, EJW > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Wed Jun 14 06:16:35 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Wed Jun 14 06:16:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? Message-ID: <5d78bcf01f834da71a75486107dbeebf@comcast.net> I think I have figured it out. I can't come up with anything with my name on it on Amazon any more. I went to Google to try to see what I could find. I am tied into "It was a Dinger" by George Gardiner because I wrote a death notice to this list about Betty Dinger in early April. I am tied into Acres of Diamonds by RH Conwell because I wrote a review of Herkimer Diamond mining sites to this list last year including Diamond Acres. Yesterday I googled Kingsley North to look at the catalog when I noticed that off to the right side was an offer to buy Kingsley North on eBay. I don't care what you google in, you will get an offer to buy it on eBay even when it makes no sense whatsoever. It's all done by computer. To the computer anything close is a hit. I no longer think it was an inside job. Just a big dumb computer. That was why the info on tourist sites in Barre was included in the review even though it made no sense. Amazon must be auto raping the web to pitch products I may find that these reviews are just temporary and consider it a near miracle that I even learned about my "reviews". Remember, just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you! John J From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 06:55:28 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Jun 14 06:55:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <000d01c68fb0$94e59dd0$75719f04@benjamin> References: <000d01c68fb0$94e59dd0$75719f04@benjamin> Message-ID: Ed, I have forwarded emails from this list to my newsletter editor on several occassions. However, I ALWAYS ask permission from the author before doing this. It takes but a minute and is simply the polite thing to do. Also I believe it is in keeping with the list rules that were recently forwarded. In addition it gives the author a chance to revisit his or her remarks to make sure he or she is happy with them. In several instances this has resulted in a more complete and understandable article for the newsletter. A win-win situation all around! For the record....if anyone should happen to find one of my posts suitable for inclusion in their newsletter I hereby request that you ask my permission. I know....its a far-fetched scenario...but stranger things have happened :-) best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 6/14/06, edben wrote: > > Hello, John. Editor Ed thought that it was a real good "review", and has > it > stashed away for probable use in our September Arrowhead News. Hmm. Does > that put me in the same class as Amazon? Definitely not financially! > > Now, Drizzle does permit reprints, but it's sure my impression that this > permission is intended only for non-profit use. I'd have to check the > "fine > print" to be sure. Kreigh Tomaszewski is in the Drizzle Inner Circle, and > could be looked to as our "local expert". > > We've got a big sale, flea market and Silent Auction, coming this > week-end, > Saturday, 9 AM to 1 PM. both outside and inside the church. Drop in for > the > fun of it! > > Ed Benjamin > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 14 08:03:35 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 14 08:03:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060613152248.036792e0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> References: <448F3E81.6BC7@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20060613152248.036792e0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <5490921ah22clt57bs4qona6n8a251rfg1@4ax.com> On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:09:19 -1000, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > >There was a discussion on this List a long time ago of how posts to the >Rockhound List appear on Google. There didn't seem to be any way to >stop that from happening. > > >Just to test it today, I looked back to a topic introduced this past >March 28 and tried putting it into Google. Try it yourself >Here's the topic: > > >Topaz Mtn (Utah) backhoe digging? > > >I also tried {quot}charcoal made by lava{quot} and found similar >results---my own post and responses by others, lifted word-for-word from >the Rockhounds List. No, they aren't copying anything, they're linking to it. The same as anything else you look up on Google. The exception is Usenet newsgroups, where they store them just like all other news servers, except they keep them forever, where most news servers carry only a few days. > -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 08:07:02 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Jun 14 08:07:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <5490921ah22clt57bs4qona6n8a251rfg1@4ax.com> References: <448F3E81.6BC7@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20060613152248.036792e0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <5490921ah22clt57bs4qona6n8a251rfg1@4ax.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040606140807q240067b7oa6a6134a2594983b@mail.gmail.com> Al, You are correct that Google links to all the results. But they cache most of the pages they crawl as well, although I am not sure how long they keep the cached version. Surely not as long as archive.org. Drew On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 16:09:19 -1000, Kitty & Bill Heacox > wrote: > > > > > > >There was a discussion on this List a long time ago of how posts to the > >Rockhound List appear on Google. There didn't seem to be any way to > >stop that from happening. > > > > > >Just to test it today, I looked back to a topic introduced this past > >March 28 and tried putting it into Google. Try it yourself > >Here's the topic: > > > > > >Topaz Mtn (Utah) backhoe digging? > > > > > >I also tried {quot}charcoal made by lava{quot} and found similar > >results---my own post and responses by others, lifted word-for-word from > >the Rockhounds List. > > No, they aren't copying anything, they're linking to it. The same as > anything else you look up on Google. The exception is Usenet > newsgroups, where they store them just like all other news servers, > except they keep them forever, where most news servers carry only a > few days. > > > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 14 08:13:42 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 14 08:13:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: References: <448F3E81.6BC7@Tomaszewski.net> <6.2.1.2.0.20060613152248.036792e0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <000a01c68f58$e727d840$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <8d9092dhhbf76l9nhc1krrpppdn58l8d63@4ax.com> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 00:50:36 -0400 (EDT), Aaron Fox wrote: >> Google is a whole different issue and I wouldn't want to block them (yes, >> there are ways to block google) because new rockhounders may not find us. >> What Google does is not a violation of copyright. > >FYI: Google has been ignoring robots.txt for years. They claim otherwise. Do you have evidence to the contrary? From Google's "Google Information for Webmasters" http://www.google.com/webmasters/faq.html "we suggest using a robots.txt file to block our crawler" and http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=35769 "# Make use of the robots.txt file on your web server. This file tells crawlers which directories can or cannot be crawled. Make sure it's current for your site so that you don't accidentally block the Googlebot crawler. Visit http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/faq.html to learn how to instruct robots when they visit your site. You can test your robots.txt file to make sure you're using it correctly with the robots.txt analysis tool available in Google Sitemaps." Other people think they can be blocked, as well. One example of many: >From http://www.outfront.net/tutorials_02/adv_tech/robots.htm 1. Exclude a file from an individual Search Engine You have a file, privatefile.htm, in a directory called 'private' that you do not wish to be indexed by Google. You know that the spider that Google sends out is called 'Googlebot'. You would add these lines to your robots.txt file: User-Agent: Googlebot Disallow: /private/privatefile.htm -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 14 08:22:45 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 14 08:22:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 07:50:20 -0400, John Joldersma wrote: >Thanks for the rapid attention to this issue. > >There were only 3 reviews under my name, none were intentional on my >part. When I looked, the review you reported was marked as one of 101 by the same reviewer. I glanced at half a dozen or so. >1 from this list >2 a comment I made elsewhere about Sec of State Powell >3 never heard of it, never said it. > >This morning my "reviews" on Amazon is no longer there. >The link comes up with someone called Fastreader. > >I am lead to the conclusion that someone on this list is responsible for >both the inclusion of my post on Amazon and the rapid removal. > >I will follow up with Amazon. Please do that before you conclude that it was someone on the list. Here's a simple test - do you have an Amazon login? (You do, if you ever bought anything from them.) Does it still work? The point is that you have to log in to submit reviews, which requires a user name and password. Either someone at Amazon is doing it, or possibly someone has opened an account in your name. If it's the latter, keep close tabs on your credit card bills. >Lifting something from this list for commercial purposes is clearly >prohibited by >list rules as well as a sleazy practice that should be beneath a >reputable company. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 14 08:25:47 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 14 08:25:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <000d01c68fb0$94e59dd0$75719f04@benjamin> References: <000d01c68fb0$94e59dd0$75719f04@benjamin> Message-ID: <4ga092dpdrrph00it68sqt197o6ptnickk@4ax.com> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:46:38 -0400, "edben" wrote: >Hello, John. Editor Ed thought that it was a real good "review", and has it >stashed away for probable use in our September Arrowhead News. Hmm. Does >that put me in the same class as Amazon? Definitely not financially! > >Now, Drizzle does permit reprints, but it's sure my impression that this >permission is intended only for non-profit use. I'd have to check the "fine >print" to be sure. Kreigh Tomaszewski is in the Drizzle Inner Circle, and >could be looked to as our "local expert". There's no fine print. The list rules and the US Government state very clearly that you must get permission from the author. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 14 08:34:09 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 14 08:34:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 05:15:59 -0400, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: >I CAN'T SEE MY CAPSLOCK You seem to manage to see the rest of the keys. Please don't do that. I, for one, won't read any messages posted in all caps. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 08:46:39 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Jun 14 08:46:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> Al, Is that a threat? So we should be worried that you aren't going to read any messages posted in caps? Drew On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 05:15:59 -0400, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: > > >I CAN'T SEE MY CAPSLOCK > > You seem to manage to see the rest of the keys. Please don't do that. > I, for one, won't read any messages posted in all caps. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From volgems at icx.net Wed Jun 14 09:45:33 2006 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Wed Jun 14 09:45:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water Message-ID: <9633717.1150303534094.JavaMail.root@mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I had almost forgotten why I love this list so much! Thanks for the refresher! ;-) John -----Original Message----- >From: Al Balmer >Sent: Jun 14, 2006 11:34 AM >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water > >On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 05:15:59 -0400, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: > >>I CAN'T SEE MY CAPSLOCK > >You seem to manage to see the rest of the keys. Please don't do that. >I, for one, won't read any messages posted in all caps. > >-- >Al Balmer >Sun City, AZ > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 14 10:35:45 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 14 10:35:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 11:46:39 -0400, Drew wrote: >Al, > >Is that a threat? Are you paranoid? No, it was information. >So we should be worried that you aren't going to read any >messages posted in caps? You (I don't know who "we" is) can worry or not about whatever you like. Makes no difference to me. However, I consider advising someone that using all caps is likely to alienate his audience a positive thing. Don't you? > >Drew > > >On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: >> >> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 05:15:59 -0400, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: >> >> >I CAN'T SEE MY CAPSLOCK >> >> You seem to manage to see the rest of the keys. Please don't do that. >> I, for one, won't read any messages posted in all caps. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 12:04:09 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Jun 14 12:04:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040606141204m66396f03uf7e9d6488dd87d48@mail.gmail.com> > > You (I don't know who "we" is) can worry or not about whatever you > like. Makes no difference to me. We is the list... It makes no difference to me if you "won't read any messages posted in all caps", but you still thought you'd mention it! However, I consider advising someone that using all caps is likely to > alienate his audience a positive thing. Don't you? It seems to me that his post got a few responses, so I guess someone read it! I don't type using all caps, so I'm not the one that you were talking to, but seems to me that whenever you get involved in any of these posts, it is always negative. The fact of the matter is that text in ALL CAPS is just the same as text in no caps... the English language just works that way! Isn't it a marvel? So what makes it so hard to read ALL CAPS? Or are you the paranoid one, thinking that people who use ALL CAPS are yelling at you? Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknlight at aol.com Wed Jun 14 12:33:29 2006 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 14 12:33:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] DAN - 1 to 1 mix ? MINERAL Oil or water In-Reply-To: <232.b7a7afb.31c15daa@aol.com> References: <232.b7a7afb.31c15daa@aol.com> Message-ID: <8C85E008C63DE94-F88-3561@mblk-d48.sysops.aol.com> Dan You might want to try mixing one part fresh mineral oil and one part of the old gelled oil and then stir it all up real good to liquefy the mix as much as possible and THEN drain it all through the paper sacks - Doing so, may go a long way to recovering 90 plus percent of all the old and new oil through the bag.. Good luck and thank you for all your great information.. MM4F -----Original Message----- From: Lapidry@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 08:40:10 EDT Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] DAN - MINERAL Oil or water This discussion pushed me to finally order another 5 gallon jug. Kingsley charged $16 for Fed Ex Super Saver shipping - arrived in three days. Tim's right about the stuff turning to jell as it gets saturated and I don't know how long you'd have to wait for the particles to separate like they do in regular oil. Basically, you don't get to scrape the crap off the bottom and keep going. It's always a full change. You cut a heck of a lot between changes though. I've changed one saw already, another needs it. I have the old muck in double paper grocery bags and have filtered about a gallon of very clear but amber oil so far out of about 2.5 gallons of muck. With luck, I'll get about another 2/3 to 3/4 gallon. This will be mostly the oil I add to make up for the oil you loose with the slabs between changes and for the smaller saws. You place a few pieces of 2x4 scrap lumber in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket to create a space for the oil, place the paper bags on top of that, then give it time to filter. Not a fast process. I've been tempted to install a tap near the bottom to allow draining without lifting the bags out. They don't fall apart like they would with water. Use a bucket with a lid to cut down on the chance of making a mess - even though mine is sitting outside. Cut the paper grocery bags even with the top of the bucket. I haven't had any luck with mixing hot water with the oil and sitting it outside in the winter to freeze, like you can do for Pella oil. I actually do still use Pella in my bigger saws - the 24 inch and 30 inch ones. I wait for days the wife's out of the house or I can open the windows in the workshop. The 14, 12, 10 and 8 inch ones are mineral oil. The 6's and 4's (facet rough, wafer blades) are water and get drained between uses. I have them fixed up with tubing like you use for an ice maker so I don't even have to carry water over. They drain into old 5 gallon oil jugs. Just like my diamond wheels, hooked up with a few shut off valves. Don't want the muck down the drain. The back yard, on the other hand, loves the rock powder. The area I spread everything, including tumbler muck, is always greener than the rest of the yard. Around here none of the oil places carry Pella so I'm still stuck ordering it shipped. The price difference really isn't so great because of that. About $17 a gallon compared to about $12-14. I'd love $30 for 5 gallons. It'd cut my costs a fair amount each year. I'm far from in Tim's league though, a big year for me is about 25 gallons. I can't imagine $1000 of oil a year!!! My hat's off to Tim. Definitely well past hobby and into full time business!!! Hope this helps.... Dan In a message dated 6/14/2006 5:22:55 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rocknlight@aol.com writes: DAN - GOOD POINT INDEED AND YOU ARE A SMART MAN AS WELL ! IT IS KIND OF LIKE CIGARETTE SMOKERS WHO DON'T NOTICE THEY SMELL THANKS FOR YOUR POST -----Original Message----- From: Lapidry@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Wed, 31 May 2006 10:22:36 EDT Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] MINERAL Oil or water In a message dated 5/31/2006 9:59:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, tim@orerockon.com writes: A couple comments: 1. All caps is considered to be rude and is equivalent to shouting in an email. Please find your capslock key and turn it off. 2. Most serious lapidaries do not use mineral oil for one simple reason: cost. At $30 +/- per gallon I can afford many months of electricity for the shop before i could afford 5 gallons of the stuff. At $30 for 5 gallons, I can afford all the Pella I need. Please don't insult those of us who use more than a couple of gallons of oil a year and need a more sane solution than shelling out $1,000 or more a year for lubricant. Tim: Kingsley charges $70 plus shipping for a 5 gallon container. More than the cost of the 12 gallons of Pella I have sitting out in the garage unused but well worth the lower level of grief from the wife over the odor........ Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 14 12:47:29 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 14 12:47:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606141204m66396f03uf7e9d6488dd87d48@mail.gmail.com> References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040606141204m66396f03uf7e9d6488dd87d48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:04:09 -0400, Drew wrote: >> >> You (I don't know who "we" is) can worry or not about whatever you >> like. Makes no difference to me. > > >We is the list... It makes no difference to me if you "won't read any >messages posted in all caps", but you still thought you'd mention it! > >However, I consider advising someone that using all caps is likely to >> alienate his audience a positive thing. Don't you? > > >It seems to me that his post got a few responses, His original post got one response, from Tim, who also mentioned that all caps is undesirable. I didn't comment, since Tim already had. His second post got one response, from me. I even refrained from saying anything about him ignoring Tim's comment, but you felt it necessary to jump to the defense of all-caps posters. (Why aren't you complaining to Tim, btw?) >so I guess someone read >it! I don't type using all caps, Why not? It's exactly the same (see below) and you wouldn't need to deal with the shift key. >so I'm not the one that you were talking >to, So you did notice that. >but seems to me that whenever you get involved in any of these posts, it >is always negative. Then I suggest that you find out whether Google can filter mail based on author. If not, you should consider getting a mail client that can. > The fact of the matter is that text in ALL CAPS is just >the same as text in no caps... the English language just works that way! >Isn't it a marvel? So what makes it so hard to read ALL CAPS? Or are you >the paranoid one, thinking that people who use ALL CAPS are yelling at you? > >Drew -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From johnjold at comcast.net Wed Jun 14 13:01:14 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Wed Jun 14 13:01:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Australian stromatolites Message-ID: Scientific American has an article including pictures, somewhat better than Michael's. http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=0002D6A8-4F24 -1487-8F2483414B7F0101 From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jun 14 13:05:04 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jun 14 13:04:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> Posting in all caps has been considered rude since computers had a capslock key. That would be the early 1980s. Some people just do not get it. I bet their messages don't get read by very many. I didn't read the last two rude all-caps posts to the list either. At 08:46 AM 6/14/2006, you wrote: >Al, > >Is that a threat? So we should be worried that you aren't going to read any >messages posted in caps? > >Drew > > >On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: >> >>On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 05:15:59 -0400, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: >> >> >I CAN'T SEE MY CAPSLOCK >> >>You seem to manage to see the rest of the keys. Please don't do that. >>I, for one, won't read any messages posted in all caps. >> >>-- >>Al Balmer >>Sun City, AZ Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rocknlight at aol.com Wed Jun 14 13:07:24 2006 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 14 13:07:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] TRUTHFUL REPONSES TO MINERAL OIL - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040606141204m66396f03uf7e9d6488dd87d48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C85E05496425D6-F88-38E4@mblk-d48.sysops.aol.com> THE FACT THAT THERE WAS LITTLE TO NO RESPONSE TO MY FACTUAL POSTING, REGARDING TIMS OPINIONS ON USING TOXIC SMELLY OILS AND CAPS, IS ACTUALLY A 100 % COMPLIMENTARY TESTIMONY TO ME AND TO THE FACT THAT MY FACTUAL ANSWERS AND LOGICAL OPINIONS TO TIMS POST, REALLY CANNOT BE ARGUED WITH IN GOOD FAITH. TO ARGUE WITH TRUTHFUL FACTS AND LOGICAL OPINIONS, ONLY MAKES THE PERSON LOOK PETTY, OVERLY STUBBORN AND WRONGFULLY ARGUMENTATIVE - THANKS FOR NOT RESPONDING AND NOT READING MY, "SCREAMING", BUT ALBEIT, LOGICAL LARGE FONT POSTS - HUMOROUSLY YOURS - R N L : ) -----Original Message----- From: Al Balmer To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:47:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:04:09 -0400, Drew wrote: >> >> You (I don't know who "we" is) can worry or not about whatever you >> like. Makes no difference to me. > > >We is the list... It makes no difference to me if you "won't read any >messages posted in all caps", but you still thought you'd mention it! > >However, I consider advising someone that using all caps is likely to >> alienate his audience a positive thing. Don't you? > > >It seems to me that his post got a few responses, His original post got one response, from Tim, who also mentioned that all caps is undesirable. I didn't comment, since Tim already had. His second post got one response, from me. I even refrained from saying anything about him ignoring Tim's comment, but you felt it necessary to jump to the defense of all-caps posters. (Why aren't you complaining to Tim, btw?) >so I guess someone read >it! I don't type using all caps, Why not? It's exactly the same (see below) and you wouldn't need to deal with the shift key. >so I'm not the one that you were talking >to, So you did notice that. >but seems to me that whenever you get involved in any of these posts, it >is always negative. Then I suggest that you find out whether Google can filter mail based on author. If not, you should consider getting a mail client that can. > The fact of the matter is that text in ALL CAPS is just >the same as text in no caps... the English language just works that way! >Isn't it a marvel? So what makes it so hard to read ALL CAPS? Or are you >the paranoid one, thinking that people who use ALL CAPS are yelling at you? > >Drew -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknlight at aol.com Wed Jun 14 13:12:40 2006 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 14 13:12:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] TRUTHFUL REPONSES TO MINERAL OIL - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: <8C85E05496425D6-F88-38E4@mblk-d48.sysops.aol.com> References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040606141204m66396f03uf7e9d6488dd87d48@mail.gmail.com> <8C85E05496425D6-F88-38E4@mblk-d48.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8C85E06058E3CCE-F88-394D@mblk-d48.sysops.aol.com> -----Original Message----- From: rocknlight@aol.com To: alremovebalmerthis@att.net; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:07:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] TRUTHFUL REPONSES TO MINERAL OIL - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water THE FACT THAT THERE WAS LITTLE TO NO RESPONSE TO MY FACTUAL POSTING, REGARDING TIMS OPINIONS ON USING TOXIC SMELLY OILS AND CAPS, IS ACTUALLY A 100 % COMPLIMENTARY TESTIMONY TO ME AND TO THE FACT THAT MY FACTUAL ANSWERS AND LOGICAL OPINIONS TO TIMS POST, REALLY CANNOT BE ARGUED WITH IN GOOD FAITH. TO ARGUE WITH TRUTHFUL FACTS AND LOGICAL OPINIONS, ONLY MAKES THE PERSON LOOK PETTY, OVERLY STUBBORN AND WRONGFULLY ARGUMENTATIVE - THANKS FOR NOT RESPONDING AND NOT READING MY, "SCREAMING", BUT ALBEIT, LOGICAL LARGE FONT POSTS - HUMOROUSLY YOURS - R N L : ) -----Original Message----- From: Al Balmer To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:47:29 -0700 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:04:09 -0400, Drew wrote: >> >> You (I don't know who "we" is) can worry or not about whatever you >> like. Makes no difference to me. > > >We is the list... It makes no difference to me if you "won't read any >messages posted in all caps", but you still thought you'd mention it! > >However, I consider advising someone that using all caps is likely to >> alienate his audience a positive thing. Don't you? > > >It seems to me that his post got a few responses, His original post got one response, from Tim, who also mentioned that all caps is undesirable. I didn't comment, since Tim already had. His second post got one response, from me. I even refrained from saying anything about him ignoring Tim's comment, but you felt it necessary to jump to the defense of all-caps posters. (Why aren't you complaining to Tim, btw?) >so I guess someone read >it! I don't type using all caps, Why not? It's exactly the same (see below) and you wouldn't need to deal with the shift key. >so I'm not the one that you were talking >to, So you did notice that. >but seems to me that whenever you get involved in any of these posts, it >is always negative. Then I suggest that you find out whether Google can filter mail based on author. If not, you should consider getting a mail client that can. > The fact of the matter is that text in ALL CAPS is just >the same as text in no caps... the English language just works that way! >Isn't it a marvel? So what makes it so hard to read ALL CAPS? Or are you >the paranoid one, thinking that people who use ALL CAPS are yelling at you? > >Drew -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jun 14 13:15:20 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Jun 14 13:18:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9><8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com><7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com><8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com><7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> Thanks for clarifying that Tim. Now let's all move on. It's getting pretty tedious. Isn't anybody cracking rocks out there? John ADMIN Team ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water > Posting in all caps has been considered rude since computers had a > capslock key. That would be the early 1980s. Some people just do not get > it. I bet their messages don't get read by very many. I didn't read the > last two rude all-caps posts to the list either. From jr50wv at yahoo.com Wed Jun 14 13:21:36 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Wed Jun 14 13:21:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds list, Amazon, and Google: My $0.02 worth Message-ID: <20060614202136.74401.qmail@web55215.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Hi List: Regarding the Amazon.com reviews, I suspect people are using data from the web to generate "reviews" in order to compete in the "I have reviewed more books/devices/places than you have" sweepstakes. It seems to me I've read about folks who have tens or hundreds of thousands of reviews, which is impossible. I read really really fast, and couldn't do that. So, I suspect, JJ has been quoted by some third party who posted to Amazon using his thoughts and comments. I'm against people "stealing" their review material, but I don't think it's a big deal, sorta like stealing the $0.02 left in a penny cup by the cash register, even tho they didn't need it to make their payment even with the cost. Regarding Google and the list, first, Google isn't "stealing" anything from list posts, but is indexing the list's posts so that folks can find them. While it is true that everyone owns their comments and holds copyright on them, at the same time the copyright statutes provide for certain uses of copyrighted material, such as in reviews, parodies, classroom discussion and the like. This is known as fair use, and copyright holders cannot prevent anyone from making fair use of their material. One recent example of such fair use is the parody of Gone with the Wind, supposedly written by one of the slaves on the plantation Tara. After much money spent on lawyers, in the end, the publication of the "The Wind done Gone" was ruled acceptable under the fair use of parody. Google's book scanning project relies on the same concept. By scanning in a book and indexing it, people are then able to locate things in that book via a Google search. They can review a little text surrounding the hit they generated, and decide if they want to (1) buy a copy, or (2) check a copy out from a library. They can't just print out a copy, unless the book is in the public domain, and no longer subject to copyright. Sounds like fair use to me - I was stunned when an organization of authors complained about this project - talk about shooting yourself in the foot! It was obvious that the leaders of that legal effort didn't have a clue about the WWW and how search engines work, and most importantly, what exactly Google planned to do. It's like suing the American Association of Librarians because they put your book in their card catalog, almost exactly. Personally, I don't use Google desktop search, but I do use Google for everything else, including sometimes finding Rockhounds posts I remember, hazily, from the distant past, but which I can't find in my email archives. To me, being indexed by Google is a great benefit for information that's quasi-public anyway. I mean, don't we add information to a thread to help others learn? It is possible to stop Google from indexing a site with something called a robots.txt file, but I hope the list managers never do that, because it makes the list less useful and the information less available, both bad things. But that's just me. Keep on Rockin' JR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 13:24:47 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Jun 14 13:24:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040606141204m66396f03uf7e9d6488dd87d48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040606141324if029064u9529ddd0754d1f6f@mail.gmail.com> > > His original post got one response, from Tim, who also mentioned that > all caps is undesirable. I guess Mr. Balmer cannot count, either that or he does not recieve all of the messages that are posted to the group. If you will go back and re-count the replies to rocknlight's "Mineral Oil or water post", you will find that there are in fact 3 replies, which would account for my use of the word "few". I even refrained from saying > anything about him ignoring Tim's comment, but you felt it necessary > to jump to the defense of all-caps posters. I'm not "trying" to defend all-caps posters, but instead PUTTING you in your place! (Why aren't you > complaining to Tim, btw?) Complaining? Seems to me that you are the one who enjoys complaining so much... so why not leave it to you? It blows my mind that you haven't mentioned "off-topic" (which we are)... but I guess since you are involved then it must be on-topic! >so I'm not the one that you were talking > >to, > > So you did notice that. > > Then I suggest that you find out whether Google can filter mail based > on author. If not, you should consider getting a mail client that can. Why would I want to do that? I want to recieve all the posts, not just a select few. Besides, screwing with you is fun! I guess the bottomline is that it is your loss if you choose not to read a post made in all caps. Another bonus is that if you make a post in all caps, Al Balmer won't be ridiculing you for being off-topic! Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jun 14 13:45:25 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jun 14 13:46:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Use of name and info. In-Reply-To: <20060614111523.NSWT15153.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bells outh.net> References: <20060614111523.NSWT15153.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060614131849.043d4030@orerockon.com> It gets even better. People read your website, ignore the warnings about getting permission to dig on private land, trespass, get caught, and then tell the landowner, sheriff, and court that you, personally, "told them it was OK to dig there". The same person attended a club trip to an 80 year old man's jasp-agate site (the stuff ain't all that great), went back afterward and claimed it, then informed the club that they were to stay off of his claims! (this person is the #1 reason I now charge for access to my site information; people like that would never ever actually pay money for digging site information). Most recently, I "stole thundereggs" from someone's "good friends" (not the complainer themselves, since they have no claims) because certain varieties are listed on my for sale page, and because someone from Germany(!) told them that "I had been to all of the claims" (my fault; it actually does say that I have been to numerous sites right on my CD page, and probably says so in the German translation, go figure). The vast majority were purchased at Richardson's Ranch and Elkins Rock Shop, some dug when I was helping the claim owners, and a few were purchased at local estate sales. One bed in particular was dug heavily when my club, the Mt Hood Rock Club, had the claim. It is now someone else's claim, but the fact that MHRC had it for years made no difference to this person. This person doesn't know me from Adam (he sure didn't know that I am friends with all of the claim owners he said I ripped off); I assume he was searching for thunderegg varieties and hit my page. And to put the icing on the fruitcake, the email contained threats about what would "happen to" me and my "buddies at the MHRC" if we were "caught on" their claims (like I said, this person has no claims, according to the BLM). So, if you make yourself into a target for weirdos, con artists, and just plain old nasty people, which is exactly what you become when you make a website and claim ownership of it (I detest the commercial websites out there with no identified owner, BTW, that just shows that you have something to hide), you will attract all kinds of cooks. To complain about it makes about as much sense as complaining about the laws of planetary motion. P.S. I am flabbergasted that Amazon is lifting copyrighted material for fake "reviews". They just lost my business. At 04:15 AM 6/14/2006, you wrote: >Dear John J: >Regarding your recent "fame" on Amazon, my first reaction was that >if they were to use your name and info, then they could pay you as >an "agent". This has been borne out by the many comments by our list >members. It just goes to show that anything that gets on the www can >be used by anyone else, fairly or not. So, the object lesson is to >be very careful with the information that one publishes. > >The second point is, that if collecting sites are broadcast on the >web, then interest is aroused, and one may loose access to the area, >or have many collectors "gang" the place, until the collectible >material is exhausted. This has recently happened to me. My brain >was picked for information, which I gave out freely, under the >assumption that it would be kept in confidence. I assumed >incorrectly, and altho' the co-conversant told me that he would >"get back to me" regarding the situation, no such courtesy was >observed. I now keep my best sites to myself, and only share with >one person, who is a bona fide collector with no personal or >commercial hidden agenda. It's too bad that things have reached to >this point, because in the past I have been more than happy to help >fellow collectors find stuff at my favorite sites. > >The last item re:"desk-top publishing", in all forms: Once your >name gets out in front of the public, look out! A fellow collector, >president of one of the mineral clubs in the NC area, and an author >of a guidebook, recently complained to me about what "Someone said >about me". I found the statement ludicrous, and replied that he had >made himself a public figure, not only by being an author, but also >by vigorous club and self promotion on the web, and by writing >articles for Rock &Gem Magazine. I found his position to be >ludicrous, in that he wished everyone to know him for his >"accomplishments", but was very thin skinned about any criticism, >both negative and positive. >Such is human nature. Sincerely, EJW Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jun 14 14:00:52 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jun 14 14:00:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cracking Rocks In-Reply-To: <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060614134809.026d4f98@orerockon.com> Yes, at least some of us have. I have been cleaning out a circa 1859 cellar, populated with circa 2006 rats and squirrels, and about 6000 pounds of thundereggs, agate, petrified wood, jasper, opal, etc., collected from a relatively small area of central and eastern OR from around 1940-1970. The collector, Dick Wilmot, belonged to the Oregon Agate and Mineral Society (the oldest lapidary society in the US), and I assume these were some of OAMS' favorite sites in the way-back. Most of the rock is now at the MHRC, where it will be cleaned up, sorted, and used for all sorts of club projects. We got a sweet deal on what the few dealers who showed up at the estate sale didn't want to bother with (all but about 500 lbs lol). I split the guy's display shelves with his grandson (who is around 60!) and found, under about a half inch of circa-1970 dust, typed labels in front of many of the cut and polished thundereggs. I will now have quite a good time trying to find "Tub Springs" (there are more than a few "tub spring"s in the Pacific NW), "Ammons plume" "Mountaintop", "Ochoco Black Agate" and about 20 other thunderegg localities that I have never heard of. The collection is a locality collectors' dream, if they can identify the couple thousand cut eggs that were not labeled... Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 14 14:40:37 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 14 14:40:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING In-Reply-To: <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9><8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com><7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com><8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com><7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:15:20 -0700, "John Siebel" wrote: >Isn't anybody cracking rocks out there? It's starting to get too hot here in the Phoenix area. I may try to get up to the Winslow area for some petrified wood before summer really sets in. In the meantime, I've got a couple pounds of stuff I should be faceting, and a couple tons of stuff I should be cabbing. I will be making a trip to the southwest corner of Oregon this summer (Brookings). Tim, is there anything interesting in that area? -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jun 14 15:01:56 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Jun 14 15:04:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cracking Rock References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9><8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com><7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com><8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com><7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com><7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com><008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> Message-ID: <00bd01c68ffe$2cd06d80$0300a8c0@Notebook> We're green with envy Al. It's been almost constant rain for weeks here in N. Idaho with several inches last night and today. I'm thinking of stocking the garden with trout. But we're still off to Mica Mountain with Don H and others on 6/24 - rain or shine. Anyone on the list is welcome to join us. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Balmer" > It's starting to get too hot here in the Phoenix area. From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 15:11:19 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Jun 14 15:11:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING In-Reply-To: <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040606141511o4861fa52n39bf1ce28c5b3c08@mail.gmail.com> Because I either live in a "geologically dead" area (I know... it's not "dead" but it sure is hard to find anything!) or the fact that I have not met 1 single field collector in my area, I have been hard at work researching the next collecting spot. We have some old iron/copper mines/prospects that offer some collecting opportunities (micros more than anything), some fields with small phantom quartz, some decent kyanite spots and of course staurolite from Fairystone Park (which I don't think is actually staurolite, but maybe a pseudomorph instead). Always searching old texts and the net for new spots. As far as cracking rocks is concerned, I have only done a little with some 40-50lb unidentified iron (hematite, goethite or ?) blobs that were unearthed while a friend was digging a foundation. Still need to get out there and get them home... they really need a good wash! Drew On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:15:20 -0700, "John Siebel" > wrote: > > >Isn't anybody cracking rocks out there? > > It's starting to get too hot here in the Phoenix area. I may try to > get up to the Winslow area for some petrified wood before summer > really sets in. > > In the meantime, I've got a couple pounds of stuff I should be > faceting, and a couple tons of stuff I should be cabbing. > > I will be making a trip to the southwest corner of Oregon this summer > (Brookings). Tim, is there anything interesting in that area? > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pete82270 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 14 15:30:39 2006 From: pete82270 at yahoo.com (peter harkelli) Date: Wed Jun 14 15:30:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060614223039.64930.qmail@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please tell me that with all your titles behind you names that you guys are just busting each other balls because your friends. Either way please end this high school b.s. and let the rest of us read info about rockhounging not ball busting. Thanks Pete.: >> >> You (I don't know who "we" is) can worry or not about whatever you >> like. Makes no difference to me. > > >We is the list... It makes no difference to me if you "won't read any >messages posted in all caps", but you still thought you'd mention it! > >However, I consider advising someone that using all caps is likely to >> alienate his audience a positive thing. Don't you? > > >It seems to me that his post got a few responses, His original post got one response, from Tim, who also mentioned that all caps is undesirable. I didn't comment, since Tim already had. His second post got one response, from me. I even refrained from saying anything about him ignoring Tim's comment, but you felt it necessary to jump to the defense of all-caps posters. (Why aren't you complaining to Tim, btw?) >so I guess someone read >it! I don't type using all caps, Why not? It's exactly the same (see below) and you wouldn't need to deal with the shift key. >so I'm not the one that you were talking >to, So you did notice that. >but seems to me that whenever you get involved in any of these posts, it >is always negative. Then I suggest that you find out whether Google can filter mail based on author. If not, you should consider getting a mail client that can. > The fact of the matter is that text in ALL CAPS is just >the same as text in no caps... the English language just works that way! >Isn't it a marvel? So what makes it so hard to read ALL CAPS? Or are you >the paranoid one, thinking that people who use ALL CAPS are yelling at you? > >Drew -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknlight at aol.com Wed Jun 14 15:55:26 2006 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 14 15:55:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] DEFENDING DIGGING FREEDOMS TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: <20060614223039.64930.qmail@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C85E1CC29CC94E-1900-176@mblk-d50.sysops.aol.com> I THANK THOSE WHO ARE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO NOT BURN LAPIDARY BOOKS OR THE AMERICAN FLAG IN THE INTERNET STREETS, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY CONDEMN THE SIZE OF THE LAPIDARY BOOK PRINT OR THE SIZE OF THE RED AND WHITE FLAG STRIPES. BOTH ITEMS ALLOW FREE PEOPLE TO READ AND LEARN AND GROW INTO WHAT THEY WANT TO BECOME AND ALSO TO BE ABLE TO HAVE CLAIMED PUBLIC DIGGING LANDS - ANY AMERICAN WHO DICTATES ILLOGICAL THOUGHTS AND HARMFUL PRODUCTS UPON OTHERS, simply because they are s t u b b o r n, IS HARMING THE FREEDOMS THIS COUNTRY STANDS FOR ! I ALSO SUPPORT THE FREEDOM OF BEING ABLE TO GIVE LOGICAL DIGGINGS TO FELLOW AMERICANS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS DESERVED : ) ROCK ON RNL -----Original Message----- From: peter harkelli To: alremovebalmerthis@att.net; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water Please tell me that with all your titles behind you names that you guys are just busting each other balls because your friends. Either way please end this high school b.s. and let the rest of us read info about rockhounging not ball busting. Thanks Pete.: >> >> You (I don't know who "we" is) can worry or not about whatever you >> like. Makes no difference to me. > > >We is the list... It makes no difference to me if you "won't read any >messages posted in all caps", but you still thought you'd mention it! > >However, I consider advising someone that using all caps is likely to >> alienate his audience a positive thing. Don't you? > > >It seems to me that his post got a few responses, His original post got one response, from Tim, who also mentioned that all caps is undesirable. I didn't comment, since Tim already had. His second post got one response, from me. I even refrained from saying anything about him ignoring Tim's comment, but you felt it necessary to jump to the defense of all-caps posters. (Why aren't you complaining to Tim, btw?) >so I guess someone read >it! I don't type using all caps, Why not? It's exactly the same (see below) and you wouldn't need to deal with the shift key. >so I'm not the one that you were talking >to, So you did notice that. >but seems to me that whenever you get involved in any of these posts, it >is always negative. Then I suggest that you find out whether Google can filter mail based on author. If not, you should consider getting a mail client that can. > The fact of the matter is that text in ALL CAPS is just >the same as text in no caps... the English language just works that way! >Isn't it a marvel? So what makes it so hard to read ALL CAPS? Or are you >the paranoid one, thinking that people who use ALL CAPS are yelling at you? > >Drew -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jun 14 16:01:54 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Jun 14 16:05:09 2006 Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] DEFENDING DIGGING FREEDOMS TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERALOi l or water References: <8C85E1CC29CC94E-1900-176@mblk-d50.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <014101c69006$8c66f900$0200a8c0@warren> This is being handled as I write. Please do NOT respond to this posting. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] DEFENDING DIGGING FREEDOMS TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERALOi l or water >I THANK THOSE From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jun 14 16:10:24 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Jun 14 16:13:00 2006 Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] DEFENDING DIGGING FREEDOMS TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERALOi l or water References: <8C85E1CC29CC94E-1900-176@mblk-d50.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00e801c69007$c1c74270$0300a8c0@Notebook> RNL, Your posts are becoming nonsensical and your continued use of ALL CAPS is inflammatory. Your post are being moderated for a day or so. John ADMIN Team ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] DEFENDING DIGGING FREEDOMS TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERALOi l or water >I THANK THOSE WHO ARE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO NOT BURN LAPIDARY BOOKS OR THE >AMERICAN FLAG IN THE INTERNET STREETS, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY CONDEMN THE SIZE >OF THE LAPIDARY BOOK PRINT OR THE SIZE OF THE RED AND WHITE FLAG STRIPES. > > BOTH ITEMS ALLOW FREE PEOPLE TO READ AND LEARN AND GROW INTO WHAT THEY > WANT TO BECOME AND ALSO TO BE ABLE TO HAVE CLAIMED PUBLIC DIGGING LANDS - > > ANY AMERICAN WHO DICTATES ILLOGICAL THOUGHTS AND HARMFUL PRODUCTS UPON > OTHERS, simply because they are s t u b b o r n, IS HARMING THE FREEDOMS > THIS COUNTRY STANDS FOR ! > > I ALSO SUPPORT THE FREEDOM OF BEING ABLE TO GIVE LOGICAL DIGGINGS TO > FELLOW AMERICANS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS DESERVED : ) > > ROCK ON > > RNL > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: peter harkelli > To: alremovebalmerthis@att.net; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem collectors > Sent: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:30:39 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water > > > Please tell me that with all your titles behind you names that you guys > are just > busting each other balls because your friends. Either way please end this > high > school b.s. and let the rest of us read info about rockhounging not ball > busting. Thanks Pete.: > >>> >>> You (I don't know who "we" is) can worry or not about whatever you >>> like. Makes no difference to me. >> >> >>We is the list... It makes no difference to me if you "won't read any >>messages posted in all caps", but you still thought you'd mention it! >> >>However, I consider advising someone that using all caps is likely to >>> alienate his audience a positive thing. Don't you? >> >> >>It seems to me that his post got a few responses, > > His original post got one response, from Tim, who also mentioned that > all caps is undesirable. I didn't comment, since Tim already had. His > second post got one response, from me. I even refrained from saying > anything about him ignoring Tim's comment, but you felt it necessary > to jump to the defense of all-caps posters. (Why aren't you > complaining to Tim, btw?) > >>so I guess someone read >>it! I don't type using all caps, > > Why not? It's exactly the same (see below) and you wouldn't need to > deal with the shift key. > >>so I'm not the one that you were talking >>to, > > So you did notice that. > >>but seems to me that whenever you get involved in any of these posts, it >>is always negative. > > Then I suggest that you find out whether Google can filter mail based > on author. If not, you should consider getting a mail client that can. > >> The fact of the matter is that text in ALL CAPS is just >>the same as text in no caps... the English language just works that way! >>Isn't it a marvel? So what makes it so hard to read ALL CAPS? Or are you >>the paranoid one, thinking that people who use ALL CAPS are yelling at >>you? >> >>Drew > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and > IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 14 16:13:15 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 14 16:13:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606141511o4861fa52n39bf1ce28c5b3c08@mail.gmail.com> References: <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> <7aac8040606141511o4861fa52n39bf1ce28c5b3c08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:11:19 -0400, Drew wrote: >Because I either live in a "geologically dead" area (I know... it's not >"dead" but it sure is hard to find anything!) or the fact that I have not >met 1 single field collector in my area, I have been hard at work >researching the next collecting spot. We have some old iron/copper >mines/prospects that offer some collecting opportunities (micros more than >anything), some fields with small phantom quartz, some decent kyanite spots >and of course staurolite from Fairystone Park (which I don't think is >actually staurolite, but maybe a pseudomorph instead). Fairystone Lake, VA area? Years ago, I did some collecting around the Richmond/Amelia Courthouse area. That would be an all-day trip, I suppose. > Always searching old >texts and the net for new spots. > >As far as cracking rocks is concerned, I have only done a little with some >40-50lb unidentified iron (hematite, goethite or ?) blobs that were >unearthed while a friend was digging a foundation. Still need to get out >there and get them home... they really need a good wash! > >Drew > >On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: >> >> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:15:20 -0700, "John Siebel" >> wrote: >> >> >Isn't anybody cracking rocks out there? >> >> It's starting to get too hot here in the Phoenix area. I may try to >> get up to the Winslow area for some petrified wood before summer >> really sets in. >> >> In the meantime, I've got a couple pounds of stuff I should be >> faceting, and a couple tons of stuff I should be cabbing. >> >> I will be making a trip to the southwest corner of Oregon this summer >> (Brookings). Tim, is there anything interesting in that area? >> >> -- >> Al Balmer >> Sun City, AZ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From bobl at peaktopeak.com Wed Jun 14 16:16:14 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Jun 14 16:17:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606141511o4861fa52n39bf1ce28c5b3c08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200606142317.k5ENH9UW004825@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi all, I found some small (up to 2 cm), red, non-gemmy garnets just west of Golden, CO two weeks ago. Last weekend I found a small pegmatite pocket at Wigwam Creek, CO with some amazonite in it. The amazonite was only partial, small crystals, but there is definite bluish-green color. I MIGHT be going up to Mt. Antero this weekend, but that's only a 50%-50% chance (it depends on how much alcohol I drink after having a hectic week). :-) I heard there is still snow at "the island", so I'll have to hike up the rest of the way if I do go. Wish me luck! My two cents regarding ALL CAPS: I think it used to matter back in the 80's and 90's when most people who used computers knew that all caps meant the person was screaming or mad. But now, I would consider half of the people who use computers to be "newbies" or "somewhat beginners" (i.e. "I don't know anything about computers but my wife/daughter/son/nephew/etc moved away so it makes talking to them much easier and cheaper than long distance phone calls.") and either don't know computer etiquette or don't care or maybe the larger sized font makes it easier on the eyes. It's just like other types of etiquette... e.g. which fork do I use when eating my salad at dinner vs. the entr?e? ... or should I stand when a woman enters the room? All countries, regions, cultures, classes, etc have their own set of rules and there is no way to get everyone to follow them. If I go into a really nice restaurant and use the wrong fork, I might get a few stares by the "upper class", but they shouldn't scold me for it (unless it's actually a law or rule that must be followed). Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Drew Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 4:11 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING Because I either live in a "geologically dead" area (I know... it's not "dead" but it sure is hard to find anything!) or the fact that I have not met 1 single field collector in my area, I have been hard at work researching the next collecting spot. We have some old iron/copper mines/prospects that offer some collecting opportunities (micros more than anything), some fields with small phantom quartz, some decent kyanite spots and of course staurolite from Fairystone Park (which I don't think is actually staurolite, but maybe a pseudomorph instead). Always searching old texts and the net for new spots. As far as cracking rocks is concerned, I have only done a little with some 40-50lb unidentified iron (hematite, goethite or ?) blobs that were unearthed while a friend was digging a foundation. Still need to get out there and get them home... they really need a good wash! Drew On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:15:20 -0700, "John Siebel" > wrote: > > >Isn't anybody cracking rocks out there? > > It's starting to get too hot here in the Phoenix area. I may try to > get up to the Winslow area for some petrified wood before summer > really sets in. > > In the meantime, I've got a couple pounds of stuff I should be > faceting, and a couple tons of stuff I should be cabbing. > > I will be making a trip to the southwest corner of Oregon this summer > (Brookings). Tim, is there anything interesting in that area? > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 16:25:56 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Jun 14 16:26:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING In-Reply-To: References: <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> <7aac8040606141511o4861fa52n39bf1ce28c5b3c08@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040606141625o676c685dof90d1f478f64db52@mail.gmail.com> Fairystone State Park is what I was referring to, in Patrick Co. There is a collecting area off the park land that you can find a ton of staurolite (or pseudomorphs). I live about an hour from there, but in between there is supposedly some big doubly terminated quartz, some over 100 pounds... somewhere... That is my current goal, but since people here are not rock inclined, they aren't much help. Some people can tell you where they have found stuff, but others can't. This is nice for permission, because most people couldn't give a darn if you go looking for rocks, that is if you don't tear up too much! Farmers are usually thrilled if you take at least some of the rocks home! I live about 5 hours away from Richmond... but I haven't collected at all there. I plan on taking my neices out there (they live near Richmond) this fall, if Morefield is still open. I also want to prospect some gold in central VA. As usual, too many places to go, not enough time. Where abouts did you collect in Richmond? I heard about some vivianite found in downtown Richmond while they were building a bridge or something. There are some of those on the market, although I have never been a big vivianite person (unless I found some myself). Drew On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:11:19 -0400, Drew wrote: > > >Because I either live in a "geologically dead" area (I know... it's not > >"dead" but it sure is hard to find anything!) or the fact that I have not > >met 1 single field collector in my area, I have been hard at work > >researching the next collecting spot. We have some old iron/copper > >mines/prospects that offer some collecting opportunities (micros more > than > >anything), some fields with small phantom quartz, some decent kyanite > spots > >and of course staurolite from Fairystone Park (which I don't think is > >actually staurolite, but maybe a pseudomorph instead). > > Fairystone Lake, VA area? Years ago, I did some collecting around the > Richmond/Amelia Courthouse area. That would be an all-day trip, I > suppose. > > > Always searching old > >texts and the net for new spots. > > > >As far as cracking rocks is concerned, I have only done a little with > some > >40-50lb unidentified iron (hematite, goethite or ?) blobs that were > >unearthed while a friend was digging a foundation. Still need to get out > >there and get them home... they really need a good wash! > > > >Drew > > > >On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:15:20 -0700, "John Siebel" > >> wrote: > >> > >> >Isn't anybody cracking rocks out there? > >> > >> It's starting to get too hot here in the Phoenix area. I may try to > >> get up to the Winslow area for some petrified wood before summer > >> really sets in. > >> > >> In the meantime, I've got a couple pounds of stuff I should be > >> faceting, and a couple tons of stuff I should be cabbing. > >> > >> I will be making a trip to the southwest corner of Oregon this summer > >> (Brookings). Tim, is there anything interesting in that area? > >> > >> -- > >> Al Balmer > >> Sun City, AZ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > >--- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jun 14 16:32:01 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Jun 14 16:34:43 2006 Subject: [ADMIN] Re: [Rockhounds] DEFENDING DIGGING FREEDOMS TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERALOi l or water Message-ID: <013901c6900a$c2a8e880$0300a8c0@Notebook> Sorry List, This was supposed to posted off-list. John Embarrassed ADMIN > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Siebel" > >> RNL, >> > From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Jun 14 16:50:28 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Jun 14 16:50:31 2006 Subject: Collecting Localities was Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING Message-ID: Since this has become a totally different (and much more interesting) thread lets change the subject line. I almost deleted your interesting posts because I thought it was more of the senseless bickering of the original subject. Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 6/14/06, Drew wrote: > > Fairystone State Park is what I was referring to, in Patrick Co. There is > a > collecting area off the park land that you can find a ton of staurolite > (or > pseudomorphs). I live about an hour from there, but in between there is > supposedly some big doubly terminated quartz, some over 100 pounds... > somewhere... That is my current goal, but since people here are not rock > inclined, they aren't much help. Some people can tell you where they have > found stuff, but others can't. This is nice for permission, because most > people couldn't give a darn if you go looking for rocks, that is if you > don't tear up too much! Farmers are usually thrilled if you take at least > some of the rocks home! > > I live about 5 hours away from Richmond... but I haven't collected at all > there. I plan on taking my neices out there (they live near Richmond) > this > fall, if Morefield is still open. I also want to prospect some gold in > central VA. As usual, too many places to go, not enough time. > > Where abouts did you collect in Richmond? I heard about some vivianite > found in downtown Richmond while they were building a bridge or something. > There are some of those on the market, although I have never been a big > vivianite person (unless I found some myself). > > Drew > > On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > > > On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:11:19 -0400, Drew wrote: > > > > >Because I either live in a "geologically dead" area (I know... it's not > > >"dead" but it sure is hard to find anything!) or the fact that I have > not > > >met 1 single field collector in my area, I have been hard at work > > >researching the next collecting spot. We have some old iron/copper > > >mines/prospects that offer some collecting opportunities (micros more > > than > > >anything), some fields with small phantom quartz, some decent kyanite > > spots > > >and of course staurolite from Fairystone Park (which I don't think is > > >actually staurolite, but maybe a pseudomorph instead). > > > > Fairystone Lake, VA area? Years ago, I did some collecting around the > > Richmond/Amelia Courthouse area. That would be an all-day trip, I > > suppose. > > > > > Always searching old > > >texts and the net for new spots. > > > > > >As far as cracking rocks is concerned, I have only done a little with > > some > > >40-50lb unidentified iron (hematite, goethite or ?) blobs that were > > >unearthed while a friend was digging a foundation. Still need to get > out > > >there and get them home... they really need a good wash! > > > > > >Drew > > > > > >On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > >> > > >> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:15:20 -0700, "John Siebel" > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> >Isn't anybody cracking rocks out there? > > >> > > >> It's starting to get too hot here in the Phoenix area. I may try to > > >> get up to the Winslow area for some petrified wood before summer > > >> really sets in. > > >> > > >> In the meantime, I've got a couple pounds of stuff I should be > > >> faceting, and a couple tons of stuff I should be cabbing. > > >> > > >> I will be making a trip to the southwest corner of Oregon this summer > > >> (Brookings). Tim, is there anything interesting in that area? > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Al Balmer > > >> Sun City, AZ > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >> Subscription Services: > > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >> List Home Page: > > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > >> > > > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > >multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > >--- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >Subscription Services: > > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >List Home Page: > > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > Al Balmer > > Sun City, AZ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jun 14 16:55:00 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Jun 14 16:57:56 2006 Subject: Collecting Localities was Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING References: Message-ID: <01ba01c6900d$f8519ab0$0200a8c0@warren> Thanks, Nathan! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Martin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 4:50 PM Subject: Collecting Localities was Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING > Since this has become a totally different (and much more interesting) > thread > lets change the subject line. I almost deleted your interesting posts > because I thought it was more of the senseless bickering of the original > subject. > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Wed Jun 14 17:01:21 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Jun 14 17:01:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] changing topic [ADMIN} Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060614135650.03a74138@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Here's a reminder on changing the topic in the Subject line on posts to this List. Following is a quote from the LIST RULES AND POLICIES as posted at the List Home Page (address appears at the bottom of each Rockhounds message). Thanks for your attention, Kitty (Admin Team) I D. 5. Subject Line: a. Please select a clear topic that will allow readers to decide if they want to read or delete. Avoid cute or cryptic titles. b. Change the topic in the Subject line when you introduce a different theme. Depending on circumstances, you may want to use "(was)" to indicate the change. c. Use one topic at a time. If you have two messages that are not at all related, post them separately, with different topics in the Subject line. From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 14 17:23:29 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 14 17:23:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] DEFENDING DIGGING FREEDOMS TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water In-Reply-To: <8C85E1CC29CC94E-1900-176@mblk-d50.sysops.aol.com> References: <20060614223039.64930.qmail@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8C85E1CC29CC94E-1900-176@mblk-d50.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00a192hd213bcajl1nm0lpfif66iljgh2i@4ax.com> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:55:26 -0400, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: Nothing useful, and in all caps at that. Sorry, but I'm going to defend my eyes. You'll see no further response from me, no matter how obnoxious you try to be, because you're now in my kill-file. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 14 17:26:02 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 14 17:26:04 2006 Subject: Collecting Localities was Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08a192lctbh0itjq8vao6rbqqp5416a0r5@4ax.com> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:50:28 -0400, "Nathan Martin" wrote: >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Subject: Collecting Localities was Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING >From: "Nathan Martin" >Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:50:28 -0400 > >Since this has become a totally different (and much more interesting) thread >lets change the subject line. I almost deleted your interesting posts >because I thought it was more of the senseless bickering of the original >subject. > Quite right. Thanks, Nate. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From volgems at icx.net Wed Jun 14 18:15:17 2006 From: volgems at icx.net (John Teague) Date: Wed Jun 14 18:15:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] DEFENDING DIGGING FREEDOMS TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water Message-ID: <11156033.1150334117279.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Please give this nonsense a rest! Please! This is worse than two third graders on the playground saying " ... touched you last ... " As some of you know, I am a "part-time" dealer doing between 12 and 20 shows per year. Until recently at show, I had been giving out a flier that I had prepared with information about lists such as this one. I gave a short summary of what was available on the various lists (rock, mineral, fossils, meteorites, etc). I no longer give out such a flier. I had too many customers that e-mailed me later saying that there was too much "crap" to muddle through for the "good stuff" that showed up every now and then. I see their point. I see thier point in spades! So please, pocket your egos, or at least continue off list. Thanks! John Teague Volunteer Gems Knoxville, Tennessee http://www.VolunteerGems.com -----Original Message----- >From: Al Balmer >Sent: Jun 14, 2006 8:23 PM >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] DEFENDING DIGGING FREEDOMS TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water > >On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:55:26 -0400, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: > >Nothing useful, and in all caps at that. > >Sorry, but I'm going to defend my eyes. You'll see no further response >from me, no matter how obnoxious you try to be, because you're now in >my kill-file. > >-- >Al Balmer >Sun City, AZ > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tim at orerockon.com Wed Jun 14 18:24:30 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Jun 14 18:24:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING In-Reply-To: <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9> <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060614182335.0269b0f8@orerockon.com> Al, AFAIK there is some petrified Myrtle wood, in some streams, don't exactly know which ones. There are of course marine fossils like all of the OR coast. At 02:40 PM 6/14/2006, you wrote: >On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:15:20 -0700, "John Siebel" > wrote: > > >Isn't anybody cracking rocks out there? > >It's starting to get too hot here in the Phoenix area. I may try to >get up to the Winslow area for some petrified wood before summer >really sets in. > >In the meantime, I've got a couple pounds of stuff I should be >faceting, and a couple tons of stuff I should be cabbing. > >I will be making a trip to the southwest corner of Oregon this summer >(Brookings). Tim, is there anything interesting in that area? > >-- >Al Balmer >Sun City, AZ > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jun 14 18:27:04 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Jun 14 18:30:23 2006 Subject: [Admin] Re: [Rockhounds] DEFENDING DIGGING FREEDOMS TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERALOi l or water References: <11156033.1150334117279.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003b01c6901a$d5159a30$0200a8c0@warren> Please do not respond to this post. As I said, this is handled. Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Teague" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] DEFENDING DIGGING FREEDOMS TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERALOi l or water > Please give this nonsense a rest! Please! This is worse than > two third graders on the playground saying " ... touched you > last ... " > > As some of you know, I am a "part-time" dealer doing > between 12 and 20 shows per year. Until recently at show, > I had been giving out a flier that I had prepared with > information about lists such as this one. I gave a short > summary of what was available on the various lists (rock, > mineral, fossils, meteorites, etc). I no longer give out such > a flier. I had too many customers that e-mailed me later > saying that there was too much "crap" to muddle through > for the "good stuff" that showed up every now and then. > I see their point. I see thier point in spades! > > So please, pocket your egos, or at least continue off list. > > Thanks! > > John Teague > Volunteer Gems > Knoxville, Tennessee > http://www.VolunteerGems.com > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Al Balmer >>Sent: Jun 14, 2006 8:23 PM >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] DEFENDING DIGGING FREEDOMS TIM - CUSTOMERS >>MINERAL Oi l or water >> >>On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:55:26 -0400, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: >> >>Nothing useful, and in all caps at that. >> >>Sorry, but I'm going to defend my eyes. You'll see no further response >>from me, no matter how obnoxious you try to be, because you're now in >>my kill-file. >> >>-- >>Al Balmer >>Sun City, AZ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Jun 14 19:35:49 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Jun 14 19:36:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairystone S.P. References: <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> <7aac8040606141511o4861fa52n39bf1ce28c5b3c08@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040606141625o676c685dof90d1f478f64db52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <009201c69024$73425ff0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I collected there in 1988. Someone at the park office gave me directions to a ephemeral creek behind a gas station near the park boundary. They indicated that it was within the park, and that it was fine to collect the loose crystals, but not the plants or animals! There was a lot of staurolite crystals (mostly twins) in the creek bed, some matrix specimens, too. Also some 1 - 2 mm garnets in schist. The best of the latter was found in a parking lot gravel at the park office. (Fresher, bigger, non-gemmy xls.) I wondered where the source-quarry was located. Another interesting outcrop is in Galax. (See the "Roadside Geology of Virginia.") The staurolite xls. aren't twinned, but they are quite large - up to 2" at least. All are in matrix. I posted some photos on "Mindat." Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING > Fairystone State Park is what I was referring to, in Patrick Co. There is > a > collecting area off the park land that you can find a ton of staurolite > (or > pseudomorphs). I live about an hour from there, but in between there is > supposedly some big doubly terminated quartz, some over 100 pounds... > somewhere... That is my current goal, but since people here are not rock > inclined, they aren't much help. Some people can tell you where they have > found stuff, but others can't. This is nice for permission, because most > people couldn't give a darn if you go looking for rocks, that is if you > don't tear up too much! Farmers are usually thrilled if you take at least > some of the rocks home! > > I live about 5 hours away from Richmond... but I haven't collected at all > there. I plan on taking my neices out there (they live near Richmond) > this > fall, if Morefield is still open. I also want to prospect some gold in > central VA. As usual, too many places to go, not enough time. > > Where abouts did you collect in Richmond? I heard about some vivianite > found in downtown Richmond while they were building a bridge or something. > There are some of those on the market, although I have never been a big > vivianite person (unless I found some myself). > > Drew From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Jun 14 20:14:06 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Jun 14 20:14:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] All Caps? Who cares? References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9><8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com><7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com><8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com><7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040606141204m66396f03uf7e9d6488dd87d48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00de01c69029$c3665400$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Personally, I care more about what a person is trying to say, than how he "says" it. Sending back a complaint about all caps as an answer to a post, is like talking to someone and correcting their grammer or pronunciation everytime they speak. It may be appropriate to correct your kids like that, but on a list it's downright RUDE. If you feel you must set a CAPPER straight or you won't be able to sleep at night, a gentle private reminder would suffice. FOR AL.....NOW I'M GOING TO HAVE TO SET ANOTHER RULE IN OE, TO DELETE ANY POST CONTAINING THE WORDS "AL BALMER" SO I WON'T HAVE TO READ YOUR COMPLAINTS QUOTED IN OTHER POSTS! And that was meant to be yelling.... Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Drew" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] TIM - CUSTOMERS MINERAL Oi l or water > > >> You (I don't know who "we" is) can worry or not about whatever you >> like. Makes no difference to me. > > > We is the list... It makes no difference to me if you "won't read any > messages posted in all caps", but you still thought you'd mention it! > > However, I consider advising someone that using all caps is likely to >> alienate his audience a positive thing. Don't you? > > > It seems to me that his post got a few responses, so I guess someone read > it! I don't type using all caps, so I'm not the one that you were talking > to, but seems to me that whenever you get involved in any of these posts, > it > is always negative. The fact of the matter is that text in ALL CAPS is > just > the same as text in no caps... the English language just works that way! > Isn't it a marvel? So what makes it so hard to read ALL CAPS? Or are you > the paranoid one, thinking that people who use ALL CAPS are yelling at > you? > > Drew > > From tam2819 at cox.net Wed Jun 14 20:35:34 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Wed Jun 14 20:35:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Imminent Implosion In-Reply-To: <00de01c69029$c3665400$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <000501c6829e$ec91f570$d2e86d18@userc8c98cd8b9><8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com><7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com><8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com><7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040606141204m66396f03uf7e9d6488dd87d48@mail.gmail.com> <00de01c69029$c3665400$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <2EA10D04-756C-4A48-843E-B6D1D1589F63@cox.net> Can't we all be friends? Terrie From kadok at infowest.com Wed Jun 14 20:40:56 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Jun 14 20:40:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <005f01c68f3a$ef3e9910$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <000d01c6902d$82d20d90$0200a8c0@kadok> So, I guess the next question is -- how do we prevent Amazon (or anybody else) from doing such things? They might take it down if we demanded it (or got a lawyer to do so for us. But I don't think that would stop them from doing it again. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Julie Siebel Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 3:44 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? Jeez, Kreigh, how embarrassing. I should have known that! Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? > >From the List Rules at > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/rules.html > > > IV.COPYRIGHT, PRIVACY, AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY: > > A.Rockhounds is a non-commercial list; you MAY NOT use ANY postings > from this list in a commercial manner without the express written > permission of the author. Copyright is retained by the author of the > message or post. It is up to individual posters to defend their own > copyrights and intellectual property rights. The doctrine of fair > use does apply, so long as the original author, and the List, are > credited. > > B.Archival or inclusion of the messages contained within the > rockhounds archives or taken from the list directly for other than > personal, non-commercial use, is prohibited. This includes websites > that offer to subscribe you to mailing lists (onelist.com, Yahoo > GroupsTM, etc). > > C.The rockhounds mailing list information, which includes subscriber > names and email addresses, is kept private and confidential. It is > not available to the general public, or to anyone requesting it. > Your names and email addresses will never be sold, traded, or > exploited in any manner. The Admin Team has no commercial interest > in anything that goes on or comes over the list; it is run as a > public service to the Internet community. > > > > > John Joldersma wrote: >> >> I was quite surprised last night while googeling something else, I saw >> some familiar language and found my >> submission to the list last week about the carbide chisels from Trow >> Holden quoted on Amazon as a review >> of Trow Holden tools. >> >> http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AGO2LVBDRJGIP/102-8127651 >> -9295320?_encoding=UTF8 >> >> I don't quite know whether to be complemented or upset. I mailed it on >> the 7th. and found it there on the 12th. >> I am at least impressed by the speed of it all. Now they have my name >> and location listed on Amazon. >> I am leaning towards upset but wanted to get feedback from list members >> before going postal. >> >> What do you think? John J >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Lapidry at aol.com Wed Jun 14 22:45:20 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 14 22:45:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] DAN - 1 to 1 mix ? MINERAL Oil or water Message-ID: <3f2.43c89c2.31c24df0@aol.com> In a message dated 6/14/2006 3:34:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rocknlight@aol.com writes: Dan You might want to try mixing one part fresh mineral oil and one part of the old gelled oil and then stir it all up real good to liquefy the mix as much as possible and THEN drain it all through the paper sacks - Doing so, may go a long way to recovering 90 plus percent of all the old and new oil through the bag.. Good luck and thank you for all your great information.. MM4F Thanks for the hint. Worth a try. It's at the stage right now where it's hard to tell apart from pudding. Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jun 15 03:35:01 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jun 15 03:35:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Imminent Implosion In-Reply-To: <2EA10D04-756C-4A48-843E-B6D1D1589F63@cox.net> Message-ID: Terrie wrote: >Can't we all be friends? But we are, we are... Sometimes friends get into an argument ;-))) Nothing to get all Dalai Mama about (LOL) Love and prisper Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Teresa Masters Verzonden: donderdag 15 juni 2006 4:36 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Imminent Implosion Can't we all be friends? Terrie _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 04:44:08 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jun 15 04:44:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairystone S.P. In-Reply-To: <009201c69024$73425ff0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> <7aac8040606141511o4861fa52n39bf1ce28c5b3c08@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040606141625o676c685dof90d1f478f64db52@mail.gmail.com> <009201c69024$73425ff0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: How coincidental, we were planning a summer trip up to DC and saw that park on the map and were planning to stop there. BK On 6/14/06, Alan Goldstein wrote: > > I collected there in 1988. Someone at the park office gave me directions > to > a ephemeral creek behind a gas station near the park boundary. They > indicated that it was within the park, and that it was fine to collect the > loose crystals, but not the plants or animals! There was a lot of > staurolite > crystals (mostly twins) in the creek bed, some matrix specimens, too. Also > some 1 - 2 mm garnets in schist. The best of the latter was found in a > parking lot gravel at the park office. (Fresher, bigger, non-gemmy xls.) I > wondered where the source-quarry was located. > > Another interesting outcrop is in Galax. (See the "Roadside Geology of > Virginia.") The staurolite xls. aren't twinned, but they are quite large - > up to 2" at least. All are in matrix. I posted some photos on "Mindat." > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Drew" > To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list > for rock and gem collectors" > Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:25 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING > > > > Fairystone State Park is what I was referring to, in Patrick Co. There > is > > a > > collecting area off the park land that you can find a ton of staurolite > > (or > > pseudomorphs). I live about an hour from there, but in between there is > > supposedly some big doubly terminated quartz, some over 100 pounds... > > somewhere... That is my current goal, but since people here are not rock > > inclined, they aren't much help. Some people can tell you where they > have > > found stuff, but others can't. This is nice for permission, because > most > > people couldn't give a darn if you go looking for rocks, that is if you > > don't tear up too much! Farmers are usually thrilled if you take at > least > > some of the rocks home! > > > > I live about 5 hours away from Richmond... but I haven't collected at > all > > there. I plan on taking my neices out there (they live near Richmond) > > this > > fall, if Morefield is still open. I also want to prospect some gold in > > central VA. As usual, too many places to go, not enough time. > > > > Where abouts did you collect in Richmond? I heard about some vivianite > > found in downtown Richmond while they were building a bridge or > something. > > There are some of those on the market, although I have never been a big > > vivianite person (unless I found some myself). > > > > Drew > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 05:47:14 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jun 15 05:47:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairystone S.P. In-Reply-To: References: <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> <7aac8040606141511o4861fa52n39bf1ce28c5b3c08@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040606141625o676c685dof90d1f478f64db52@mail.gmail.com> <009201c69024$73425ff0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <7aac8040606150547w799dad07vc62e7794460d25e7@mail.gmail.com> Alan, from my understanding the collecting area behind the gas station, named Haynes 57, is off the park limits. I do know that no digging tools are allowed, not even a little trowl. I have collected at the Galax locale (intersection of 89 and 58), and have found some twinned (not cross form), staurolite up to 6 - 7". There are also some other spots to find kyanite and staurolite in the Galax area (if anyone is coming though this area, lemme know). Bryan, in addition to the collecting opportunities at Haynes 57 (just beyond the park entrance), there is also a museum dedicated to staurolite, http://www.stonecrossmountain.com/museum.htm, in Stuart, VA. Drew On 6/15/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > How coincidental, we were planning a summer trip up to DC and saw that > park > on the map and were planning to stop there. > > BK > > > On 6/14/06, Alan Goldstein wrote: > > > > I collected there in 1988. Someone at the park office gave me directions > > to > > a ephemeral creek behind a gas station near the park boundary. They > > indicated that it was within the park, and that it was fine to collect > the > > loose crystals, but not the plants or animals! There was a lot of > > staurolite > > crystals (mostly twins) in the creek bed, some matrix specimens, too. > Also > > some 1 - 2 mm garnets in schist. The best of the latter was found in a > > parking lot gravel at the park office. (Fresher, bigger, non-gemmy xls.) > I > > wondered where the source-quarry was located. > > > > Another interesting outcrop is in Galax. (See the "Roadside Geology of > > Virginia.") The staurolite xls. aren't twinned, but they are quite large > - > > up to 2" at least. All are in matrix. I posted some photos on "Mindat." > > > > Alan > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Drew" > > To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing > list > > for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:25 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING > > > > > > > Fairystone State Park is what I was referring to, in Patrick > Co. There > > is > > > a > > > collecting area off the park land that you can find a ton of > staurolite > > > (or > > > pseudomorphs). I live about an hour from there, but in between there > is > > > supposedly some big doubly terminated quartz, some over 100 pounds... > > > somewhere... That is my current goal, but since people here are not > rock > > > inclined, they aren't much help. Some people can tell you where they > > have > > > found stuff, but others can't. This is nice for permission, because > > most > > > people couldn't give a darn if you go looking for rocks, that is if > you > > > don't tear up too much! Farmers are usually thrilled if you take at > > least > > > some of the rocks home! > > > > > > I live about 5 hours away from Richmond... but I haven't collected at > > all > > > there. I plan on taking my neices out there (they live near Richmond) > > > this > > > fall, if Morefield is still open. I also want to prospect some gold > in > > > central VA. As usual, too many places to go, not enough time. > > > > > > Where abouts did you collect in Richmond? I heard about some > vivianite > > > found in downtown Richmond while they were building a bridge or > > something. > > > There are some of those on the market, although I have never been a > big > > > vivianite person (unless I found some myself). > > > > > > Drew > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 05:55:48 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jun 15 05:55:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairystone S.P. In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606150547w799dad07vc62e7794460d25e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> <7aac8040606141511o4861fa52n39bf1ce28c5b3c08@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040606141625o676c685dof90d1f478f64db52@mail.gmail.com> <009201c69024$73425ff0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <7aac8040606150547w799dad07vc62e7794460d25e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040606150555o123dc704l519e3f99522b20d7@mail.gmail.com> Alan, I stand corrected. The spot behind Haynes 57 is in fact on park land. But from what I understand, you cannot search in the park proper (around the campsites, etc). Drew On 6/15/06, Drew wrote: > > Alan, from my understanding the collecting area behind the gas station, > named Haynes 57, is off the park limits. I do know that no digging tools > are allowed, not even a little trowl. I have collected at the Galax locale > (intersection of 89 and 58), and have found some twinned (not cross form), > staurolite up to 6 - 7". There are also some other spots to find kyanite > and staurolite in the Galax area (if anyone is coming though this area, > lemme know). > > Bryan, in addition to the collecting opportunities at Haynes 57 (just > beyond the park entrance), there is also a museum dedicated to staurolite, http://www.stonecrossmountain.com/museum.htm > , in Stuart, VA. > > Drew > > > On 6/15/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > How coincidental, we were planning a summer trip up to DC and saw that > > park > > on the map and were planning to stop there. > > > > BK > > > > > > On 6/14/06, Alan Goldstein wrote: > > > > > > I collected there in 1988. Someone at the park office gave me > > directions > > > to > > > a ephemeral creek behind a gas station near the park boundary. They > > > indicated that it was within the park, and that it was fine to collect > > the > > > loose crystals, but not the plants or animals! There was a lot of > > > staurolite > > > crystals (mostly twins) in the creek bed, some matrix specimens, too. > > Also > > > some 1 - 2 mm garnets in schist. The best of the latter was found in a > > > parking lot gravel at the park office. (Fresher, bigger, non-gemmy > > xls.) I > > > wondered where the source-quarry was located. > > > > > > Another interesting outcrop is in Galax. (See the "Roadside Geology of > > > Virginia.") The staurolite xls. aren't twinned, but they are quite > > large - > > > up to 2" at least. All are in matrix. I posted some photos on > > "Mindat." > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Drew" < dr00bert@gmail.com> > > > To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing > > list > > > for rock and gem collectors" < rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:25 PM > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING > > > > > > > > > > Fairystone State Park is what I was referring to, in Patrick > > Co. There > > > is > > > > a > > > > collecting area off the park land that you can find a ton of > > staurolite > > > > (or > > > > pseudomorphs). I live about an hour from there, but in between > > there is > > > > supposedly some big doubly terminated quartz, some over 100 > > pounds... > > > > somewhere... That is my current goal, but since people here are not > > rock > > > > inclined, they aren't much help. Some people can tell you where > > they > > > have > > > > found stuff, but others can't. This is nice for permission, because > > > > > most > > > > people couldn't give a darn if you go looking for rocks, that is if > > you > > > > don't tear up too much! Farmers are usually thrilled if you take at > > > least > > > > some of the rocks home! > > > > > > > > I live about 5 hours away from Richmond... but I haven't collected > > at > > > all > > > > there. I plan on taking my neices out there (they live near > > Richmond) > > > > this > > > > fall, if Morefield is still open. I also want to prospect some gold > > in > > > > central VA. As usual, too many places to go, not enough time. > > > > > > > > Where abouts did you collect in Richmond? I heard about some > > vivianite > > > > found in downtown Richmond while they were building a bridge or > > > something. > > > > There are some of those on the market, although I have never been a > > big > > > > vivianite person (unless I found some myself). > > > > > > > > Drew > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 06:04:56 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jun 15 06:04:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Searching for gold, in your yard!?! Message-ID: <7aac8040606150604u4d23747eqe30e12a02beb8a14@mail.gmail.com> Found this article on Yahoo, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060615/ap_on_fe_st/gold_digger MONTCLAIR, Calif. - A homeowner digging for gold in his front yard said he got "carried away" and ended up with a 60-foot-deep hole, authorities said. Henry Mora, 63, began digging 10 days ago after his gold detector reported a positive hit near his front patio. He told authorities he only intended to go down three or four feet. "I figured, well, maybe there's something down there ? you would logically conclude, right? So I started digging," the semiretired musician said. He started finding gold dust in the dirt and the detector kept hinting that he was getting closer, so he kept digging. "It was still beeping, and that just gave me the idea to keep digging," he said. Fire officials called to the scene Tuesday found two men that Mora hired were inside the hole, using a bucket and rope to remove dirt. "We told him, 'You're done,'" said Montclair fire Capt. Rich Baldwin. "It's amazing no one got killed." Authorities fenced off Enrique's property. Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Thu Jun 15 07:26:16 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Thu Jun 15 07:26:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question Message-ID: <001e01c69087$a9ce4490$327aa118@feldsparflash> To the List: I have a specimen that was given to me from the Sam Braens Quarry, Haledon, NJ. The label lists quartz, laumontite, feldspar (albite), etc. The dealer identified the pinkish mineral as feldspar(?). It is very small so difficult to study, pink, looks a bit like bundled stilbite and clusters in elongated oval- like shapes, fluoresces pink , hardness more than four and unlike any feldspar I have seen. The MinDat info on Braens Quarry does not list feldspar, but does list stilbite and stellerite. I am leaning towards stellerite. To we have any rockhounds on the list familiar with this location that could give me some help? Thanks, Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Jun 15 07:38:35 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Jun 15 07:38:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Searching for gold, in your yard!?! Message-ID: <061520061438.10284.449170EA000EB5820000282C216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Here is a companion story, that a friend just fowarded to me! Earth's heart of gold http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1663566.htm "Enough gold to cover the whole earth's surface 1/2 m deep?" Once you read it, you'll see that obviously this fellow in Montclair CA was just picking up the gold in the Earth's core. He still had a little ways to go, I guess. Pete -------------- Original message from Drew : -------------- > Found this article on Yahoo, > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060615/ap_on_fe_st/gold_digger > > MONTCLAIR, Calif. - A homeowner digging for gold in his front yard said he > got "carried away" and ended up with a 60-foot-deep hole, authorities said. > > Henry Mora, 63, began digging 10 days ago after his gold detector reported a > positive hit near his front patio. He told authorities he only intended to > go down three or four feet. > > "I figured, well, maybe there's something down there — you would logically > conclude, right? So I started digging," the semiretired musician said. > > He started finding gold dust in the dirt and the detector kept hinting that > he was getting closer, so he kept digging. > > "It was still beeping, and that just gave me the idea to keep digging," he > said. > > Fire officials called to the scene Tuesday found two men that Mora hired > were inside the hole, using a bucket and rope to remove dirt. > > "We told him, 'You're done,'" said Montclair fire Capt. Rich Baldwin. "It's > amazing no one got killed." > > Authorities fenced off Enrique's property. > > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Thu Jun 15 08:24:12 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jun 15 08:24:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List issue, reuse of submissions? In-Reply-To: <000d01c6902d$82d20d90$0200a8c0@kadok> References: <005f01c68f3a$ef3e9910$0200a8c0@warren> <000d01c6902d$82d20d90$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:40:56 -0600, "Margaret Malm" wrote: >So, I guess the next question is -- how do we prevent Amazon (or anybody >else) from doing such things? They might take it down if we demanded it (or >got a lawyer to do so for us. But I don't think that would stop them from >doing it again. In this case, it was taken down, though nobody here seems to know how or why. In fact, the item in question now has *no* reviews. I would still like to see this pursued - at the least it would be interesting to see their response to a complaint to their legal department. They have a procedure, and the email address is copyright@amazon.com . The whole procedure is detailed at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/508088/102-4857008-7076116 -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From albalmer at att.net Thu Jun 15 08:26:09 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jun 15 08:26:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] DAN - 1 to 1 mix ? MINERAL Oil or water In-Reply-To: <3f2.43c89c2.31c24df0@aol.com> References: <3f2.43c89c2.31c24df0@aol.com> Message-ID: <2uu2921tfnbvv6e8j45306tlk62fu2bduc@4ax.com> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 01:45:20 EDT, Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 6/14/2006 3:34:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >rocknlight@aol.com writes: > >Dan > >You might want to try mixing one part fresh mineral oil and one part of the >old gelled oil and then stir it all up real good to liquefy the mix as much >as possible and THEN drain it all through the paper sacks - > >Doing so, may go a long way to recovering 90 plus percent of all the old and >new oil through the bag.. > >Good luck and thank you for all your great information.. > >MM4F > > >Thanks for the hint. Worth a try. It's at the stage right now where it's >hard to tell apart from pudding. > Let us know (in a couple of months :-) whether it seems to help. My guess is that it will just get down to the same level and turn into pudding again. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From bobl at peaktopeak.com Thu Jun 15 08:44:55 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Thu Jun 15 08:45:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] DAN - 1 to 1 mix ? MINERAL Oil or water In-Reply-To: <2uu2921tfnbvv6e8j45306tlk62fu2bduc@4ax.com> Message-ID: <200606151544.k5FFiwS1026451@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Maybe this has already been mentioned (I deleted a lot of the argumentative posts), but would heating up the gelled oil cause it to liquefy faster? And then it could be strained? That way you wouldn't have to add new oil to it. I don't do any cutting or use oils, so I have no experience with this, but maybe heating it a little might help (like heating Jello will "melt" it into a liquid). Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Al Balmer Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 9:26 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] DAN - 1 to 1 mix ? MINERAL Oil or water On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 01:45:20 EDT, Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 6/14/2006 3:34:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >rocknlight@aol.com writes: > >Dan > >You might want to try mixing one part fresh mineral oil and one part of the >old gelled oil and then stir it all up real good to liquefy the mix as much >as possible and THEN drain it all through the paper sacks - > >Doing so, may go a long way to recovering 90 plus percent of all the old and >new oil through the bag.. > >Good luck and thank you for all your great information.. > >MM4F > > >Thanks for the hint. Worth a try. It's at the stage right now where it's >hard to tell apart from pudding. > Let us know (in a couple of months :-) whether it seems to help. My guess is that it will just get down to the same level and turn into pudding again. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Jun 15 09:04:09 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Jun 15 09:04:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Was ALL CAPS Now Gold in Virginia In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606141625o676c685dof90d1f478f64db52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <007d01c69095$11d22770$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> All: First my two cents since there seems to be some sort of opinion poll in process. It may be my 25+ years in computers, but I consider all caps irritating, inflammatory and insulting. If one desires a more readable text then increase your email work area. On a relative scale I consider all caps roughly equivalent to loud farts in public lines or elevators; coughing in crowded areas without covering your mouth; using your personal fork to serve food; using loud profane words while attending religious services... Computer newbie or not it is rude and insulting to many of us. I, personally, have been deleting the emails that are in all caps. I don't need to raise my blood pressure searching for glints of knowledge. Drew If you haven't already gotten it, you want the "Gold in Virginia" publication by Palmer Sweet. http://www.mme.state.va.us/Dmr/PUB/Brochures/gold.html We in Virginia do not have a rockhound friendly department of mines, but you can purchase the publications here https://www.dmme.virginia.gov/commerce/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=1282 If you look at the large scale map you will notice that there are many occurrences of gold through Virginia, not just in the gold-pyrite belt. Thanks to the ancient orogenies (Continent collisions) there are many old thermal vents from Pennsylvania to Georgia. One of the interesting things about old gold mines in Virginia is that almost all are along some sort of watercourse or were discovered by panning from the local watercourse. I am sure there are many vents unnoticed or passed over that are not on a waterway. Basically, anywhere in Virginia you find outcrops of rusty quartz you have a chance of finding gold. While finding large nuggets is a possibility, Virginia is more noted for the gold being found as flour dust sized. To fill in with a bit of family humor; I received a call from a close relative excited that he had gold on his property. He had needed some work done on his pond and the bulldozer operator pointed to the rusty quartz he was piling up and said that it could contain gold. Well, my relative stayed calm, but roamed around the property with his eye on the ground and picked up shiny gold specks. He took these specks to a jeweler friend who said they tested inert (some acid I understand) and could be gold. In a less calm voice my relative called me for me and my metal detector to help get rich. I had my doubts, but I packed up and trundled out to his property; turned on the detector and we headed for the outcrop in a steady rain. My relative pointed to where I will find the gold (note the definitive), I dropped the detector and did a number of sweeps. Nothing. I reset the detector at the insistence of my relation and tried again. Under a no discrimination setting I did get some hits, from rust spots on quartz. My relative, getting frustrated with my blindness, finally pointed to a rivulet running downhill and said "can't you see the gold? It's running downhill in the water." I was surprised, and looked carefully at the water trying to see gold... Then I refocused, the gold was floating on top of the water. I couldn't help it, I just started laughing. My relative's gold was small flakes of mica. I tried there in the rain to explain mica to my relation. He was determined; his jeweler friend had identified it as gold... We finally stopped our dead end discussion and I went home. After a couple of weeks, my relation stopped mentioning his gold; but to this day 10 years later he still has a large pile of rusty quartz piled near his garage. I did tell him that there could be gold in those rusty spots, but I wasn't going to promise he could get it out. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA I also want to prospect some gold in central VA. As usual, too many places to go, not enough time. From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Thu Jun 15 09:15:59 2006 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Thu Jun 15 09:16:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cap Locks Message-ID: <20060615161559.7194.qmail@web35613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I thought this was an adult list. This cap log thread is getting out of control. I don't have the time to sit and delete all these cap log messages. Please remove me from this list. I will try to find another rock list. June __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Thu Jun 15 09:25:07 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jun 15 09:25:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606141625o676c685dof90d1f478f64db52@mail.gmail.com> References: <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> <7aac8040606141511o4861fa52n39bf1ce28c5b3c08@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040606141625o676c685dof90d1f478f64db52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <09v2929btmip75pi938b9cqlrcfkg1coco@4ax.com> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:25:56 -0400, Drew wrote: >Fairystone State Park is what I was referring to, in Patrick Co. Seems to be a couple miles SE of the lake, on my map. > There is a >collecting area off the park land that you can find a ton of staurolite (or >pseudomorphs). Do you have any idea what the replacement mineral might be? > I live about an hour from there, but in between there is >supposedly some big doubly terminated quartz, some over 100 pounds... >somewhere... That is my current goal, but since people here are not rock >inclined, they aren't much help. Wow! Sounds like Arkansas! > Some people can tell you where they have >found stuff, but others can't. This is nice for permission, because most >people couldn't give a darn if you go looking for rocks, that is if you >don't tear up too much! Farmers are usually thrilled if you take at least >some of the rocks home! > >I live about 5 hours away from Richmond... but I haven't collected at all >there. I plan on taking my neices out there (they live near Richmond) this >fall, if Morefield is still open. I also want to prospect some gold in >central VA. As usual, too many places to go, not enough time. > >Where abouts did you collect in Richmond? I heard about some vivianite >found in downtown Richmond while they were building a bridge or something. >There are some of those on the market, although I have never been a big >vivianite person (unless I found some myself). Now you're testing my memory, which isn't that great . The one place I remember was an amethyst location near Amelia Courthouse. An old lady showed us some samples, collected $5.00 each, and pointed us to the dig. Unfortunately, it hadn't been touched in years, and really needed some power equipment to stir things up. We didn't get any good specimens. On that same trip, we collected at a quarry (I think slightly N or Washington, DC) which had tons of cuttable diopside. This was all about 35 years ago, and I don't remember much. > >Drew > >On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: >> >> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:11:19 -0400, Drew wrote: >> >> >Because I either live in a "geologically dead" area (I know... it's not >> >"dead" but it sure is hard to find anything!) or the fact that I have not >> >met 1 single field collector in my area, I have been hard at work >> >researching the next collecting spot. We have some old iron/copper >> >mines/prospects that offer some collecting opportunities (micros more >> than >> >anything), some fields with small phantom quartz, some decent kyanite >> spots >> >and of course staurolite from Fairystone Park (which I don't think is >> >actually staurolite, but maybe a pseudomorph instead). >> >> Fairystone Lake, VA area? Years ago, I did some collecting around the >> Richmond/Amelia Courthouse area. That would be an all-day trip, I >> suppose. >> >> > Always searching old >> >texts and the net for new spots. >> > >> >As far as cracking rocks is concerned, I have only done a little with >> some >> >40-50lb unidentified iron (hematite, goethite or ?) blobs that were >> >unearthed while a friend was digging a foundation. Still need to get out >> >there and get them home... they really need a good wash! >> > >> >Drew >> > >> >On 6/14/06, Al Balmer wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:15:20 -0700, "John Siebel" >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >Isn't anybody cracking rocks out there? >> >> >> >> It's starting to get too hot here in the Phoenix area. I may try to >> >> get up to the Winslow area for some petrified wood before summer >> >> really sets in. >> >> >> >> In the meantime, I've got a couple pounds of stuff I should be >> >> faceting, and a couple tons of stuff I should be cabbing. >> >> >> >> I will be making a trip to the southwest corner of Oregon this summer >> >> (Brookings). Tim, is there anything interesting in that area? -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From albalmer at att.net Thu Jun 15 09:29:46 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jun 15 09:29:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon coast (was [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING) In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060614182335.0269b0f8@orerockon.com> References: <8C85234D2F0A2E6-194-3030@FWM-M21.sysops.aol.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060531065018.041b0648@orerockon.com> <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614182335.0269b0f8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:24:30 -0700, Tim Fisher wrote: >Al, AFAIK there is some petrified Myrtle wood, in some streams, don't >exactly know which ones. There are of course marine fossils like all >of the OR coast. > Thanks, Tim. One of these years I'm going to plan a couple of weeks in Oregon, and of course get the latest version of your CD :-) >At 02:40 PM 6/14/2006, you wrote: >>On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 13:15:20 -0700, "John Siebel" >> wrote: >> >> >Isn't anybody cracking rocks out there? >> >>It's starting to get too hot here in the Phoenix area. I may try to >>get up to the Winslow area for some petrified wood before summer >>really sets in. >> >>In the meantime, I've got a couple pounds of stuff I should be >>faceting, and a couple tons of stuff I should be cabbing. >> >>I will be making a trip to the southwest corner of Oregon this summer >>(Brookings). Tim, is there anything interesting in that area? >> >>-- >>Al Balmer >>Sun City, AZ >> > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Jun 15 09:57:12 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Jun 15 09:57:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] was ALL CAPS Now Vivianite In-Reply-To: <09v2929btmip75pi938b9cqlrcfkg1coco@4ax.com> Message-ID: <00c601c6909c$aaa55e20$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Al & Drew: OK; now you're really testing my weak memory. It took a bit of looking, but I turned up the reference for vivianite within Richmond Virginia city limits. June Culp Zeitner in her "Appalachian Mineral & Gem Trails" reports the finding of vivianite in Richmond at the construction site of a road/tunnel. Ms. Zeitner reports that the road/tunnel was to be connected to a state office building. My copy was printed in 1975 with the first printing in 1968. She also reports that a nearby construction site did not have any vivianite found. The Richmond vivianite was reported as occurrences of altered fossil whale bone. I also heard the story as history at a meeting if the Richmond Gem and Mineral Society (RGMS) who managed to gain access to the dig site. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA >Where abouts did you collect in Richmond? I heard about some vivianite >found in downtown Richmond while they were building a bridge or something. >There are some of those on the market, although I have never been a big >vivianite person (unless I found some myself). Now you're testing my memory, which isn't that great . The one place I remember was an amethyst location near Amelia Courthouse. An old lady showed us some samples, collected $5.00 each, and pointed us to the dig. Unfortunately, it hadn't been touched in years, and really needed some power equipment to stir things up. We didn't get any good specimens. Spotted this interesting report: And still haven't seen anything more on the reported Norway strike. BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 10:00:28 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jun 15 10:00:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] ALL CAPS POSTING In-Reply-To: <09v2929btmip75pi938b9cqlrcfkg1coco@4ax.com> References: <8C85DAA48E7E03F-1FE8-52DD@MBLK-M31.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040606140846oef329e5s9d52155b9b006693@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060614130305.00adc868@orerockon.com> <008201c68fef$4a882570$0300a8c0@Notebook> <0ov092tkem2ucfgd974nka0595lr81ege2@4ax.com> <7aac8040606141511o4861fa52n39bf1ce28c5b3c08@mail.gmail.com> <7aac8040606141625o676c685dof90d1f478f64db52@mail.gmail.com> <09v2929btmip75pi938b9cqlrcfkg1coco@4ax.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040606151000m21c37384qb481639c3f9562dd@mail.gmail.com> On 6/15/06, Al Balmer wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:25:56 -0400, Drew wrote: > > >Fairystone State Park is what I was referring to, in Patrick Co. > > Seems to be a couple miles SE of the lake, on my map. Doh... that is the lake that is in the middle of the park! > > There is a > >collecting area off the park land that you can find a ton of staurolite > (or > >pseudomorphs). > > Do you have any idea what the replacement mineral might be? Not quite sure, but it is a light-tan color and seems to be a lot softer than the big staurolite blades I have found in Galax. I need to send them to a friend to get them tested. > I live about an hour from there, but in between there is > >supposedly some big doubly terminated quartz, some over 100 pounds... > >somewhere... That is my current goal, but since people here are not rock > >inclined, they aren't much help. > > Wow! Sounds like Arkansas! Haven't seen any personally, except one weathered chunk that came out of one of the small creeks in the area. It is huge, like probably 30 lbs., you could cut a perfect crystal ball from it (if you have a sphere-machine big enough!) But the literature is full of descriptions of specimens, so I continue to hunt them! Now you're testing my memory, which isn't that great . The one > place I remember was an amethyst location near Amelia Courthouse. An > old lady showed us some samples, collected $5.00 each, and pointed us > to the dig. Unfortunately, it hadn't been touched in years, and really > needed some power equipment to stir things up. We didn't get any good > specimens. Amelia County is chock-full of pegmatites. Some of the prettiest amazonite comes from there, as well as a good amount of the tantalite/columbite group. I have heard about people taking big geiger counters to some of the old mines and finding a mint in columbite/tantalite. I think they are selling it for manufacturing instead of selling as mineral specimens. Amethyst is known to be in some of the pegs, but I have never seen any specimens labeled from there. I have seen some that came from fields in the Shenendoah Valley, some really beatiful stuff, but cannot find the actual location. On that same trip, we collected at a quarry (I think slightly N or > Washington, DC) which had tons of cuttable diopside. This was all > about 35 years ago, and I don't remember much. I have always wanted to venture up to Northern VA to check out some of the trap-rock quarries, but I have heard that most are closed to collecting now (?). Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 10:03:21 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jun 15 10:03:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] was ALL CAPS Now Vivianite In-Reply-To: <00c601c6909c$aaa55e20$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <09v2929btmip75pi938b9cqlrcfkg1coco@4ax.com> <00c601c6909c$aaa55e20$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <7aac8040606151003p7cc9f4e4nebfc996f0e4afc34@mail.gmail.com> Ted, The book you refer to has gotten me overly-excited one too many times. I really like the book, but directions to the locations are very hard to decipher. I have been on a few goose chases because of that book! Drew On 15 Jun 2006 09:57:12 -0700, Ted Kowalski wrote: > > > Al & Drew: > OK; now you're really testing my weak memory. It took a bit of looking, > but > I turned up the reference for vivianite within Richmond Virginia city > limits. > June Culp Zeitner in her "Appalachian Mineral & Gem Trails" reports the > finding of vivianite in Richmond at the construction site of a > road/tunnel. > Ms. Zeitner reports that the road/tunnel was to be connected to a state > office building. My copy was printed in 1975 with the first printing in > 1968. She also reports that a nearby construction site did not have any > vivianite found. > > The Richmond vivianite was reported as occurrences of altered fossil whale > bone. > > I also heard the story as history at a meeting if the Richmond Gem and > Mineral Society (RGMS) who managed to gain access to the dig site. > > Ted Kowalski > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > >Where abouts did you collect in Richmond? I heard about some vivianite > >found in downtown Richmond while they were building a bridge or > something. > >There are some of those on the market, although I have never been a big > >vivianite person (unless I found some myself). > > Now you're testing my memory, which isn't that great . The one > place I remember was an amethyst location near Amelia Courthouse. An > old lady showed us some samples, collected $5.00 each, and pointed us > to the dig. Unfortunately, it hadn't been touched in years, and really > needed some power equipment to stir things up. We didn't get any good > specimens. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 10:07:46 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jun 15 10:07:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Was ALL CAPS Now Gold in Virginia In-Reply-To: <007d01c69095$11d22770$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <7aac8040606141625o676c685dof90d1f478f64db52@mail.gmail.com> <007d01c69095$11d22770$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <7aac8040606151007m21e2eb12v9e3c84e15e1804fa@mail.gmail.com> On 15 Jun 2006 09:04:09 -0700, Ted Kowalski wrote: > > Drew > If you haven't already gotten it, you want the "Gold in Virginia" > publication by Palmer Sweet. > http://www.mme.state.va.us/Dmr/PUB/Brochures/gold.html > We in Virginia do not have a rockhound friendly department of mines, but > you > can purchase the publications here > https://www.dmme.virginia.gov/commerce/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=1282 I have had some decent results with the DMME, and have ordered a few of their publications. The book, Minerals of Virginia has really opened my eyes to some spots that I had overlooked. I will have to get the Gold in Virginia publication and check it out. I know there are some lode gold spots in Grayson Co, but haven't found a good way to get back to them. I'm just not sure if the lode gold is worth it. > To fill in with a bit of family humor; I received a call from a close > relative excited that he had gold on his property. He had needed some work > done on his pond and the bulldozer operator pointed to the rusty quartz he > > was piling up and said that it could contain gold. Well, my relative > stayed > calm, but roamed around the property with his eye on the ground and picked > up shiny gold specks. He took these specks to a jeweler friend who said > they > tested inert (some acid I understand) and could be gold. In a less calm > voice my relative called me for me and my metal detector to help get rich. > I > had my doubts, but I packed up and trundled out to his property; turned on > > the detector and we headed for the outcrop in a steady rain. My relative > pointed to where I will find the gold (note the definitive), I dropped the > detector and did a number of sweeps. Nothing. I reset the detector at the > insistence of my relation and tried again. Under a no discrimination > setting > I did get some hits, from rust spots on quartz. My relative, getting > frustrated with my blindness, finally pointed to a rivulet running > downhill > and said "can't you see the gold? It's running downhill in the water." I > was > surprised, and looked carefully at the water trying to see gold... Then I > refocused, the gold was floating on top of the water. I couldn't help it, > I > just started laughing. My relative's gold was small flakes of mica. I > tried > there in the rain to explain mica to my relation. He was determined; his > jeweler friend had identified it as gold... We finally stopped our dead > end > discussion and I went home. After a couple of weeks, my relation stopped > mentioning his gold; but to this day 10 years later he still has a large > pile of rusty quartz piled near his garage. I did tell him that there > could > be gold in those rusty spots, but I wasn't going to promise he could get > it > out. I can relate to your story about the mica being gold. When on a family vacation about 12 years ago, we were in the Black Hills. The campground we were staying at let people pan for gold. So I bought a pan, then went down to the stream and grabbed up some gravel (right off the top, mind you). When I swished it around, I kept seeing flashes, so I put the gravel in some jars. When I got home I took the whole jars to the local jeweler, and asked him how I was supposed to get the gold out. He very politely told me that what I had was not gold at all, but mica. After having done my own real gold panning (I have done some crevicing down in NC, which yielded some little stuff, 1 picker, 4 or 5 smaller pieces), the difference between gold and mica are very distinctive! When I found my biggest picker, I thought it was "glued" to the bottom of the pan, because it did not move at all! Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Jun 15 10:59:59 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Jun 15 11:00:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amelia County, Virginia USA In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606151000m21c37384qb481639c3f9562dd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00ca01c690a5$5591a610$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Drew and AL: I may be intruding a little often here, but you two keep pushing my buttons... Maybe, in my case, that's just a button. I did go through my rocks from the Morefield mine trip two weeks ago and I spent some time this past week enlarging views of certain minerals (I used a deck screw to pry off unwanted feldspar). Anyway; I did a quick posting of some of these items on a web page (My wife's web site, but not linked to or from her main page). You can check them out here, including three pieces of amethyst. The piece of granite they are on is 4" (100mm) long. Please note these photos are mostly between 100 and 200K in size. Very slow on dialup. http://www.wovengems.com/Rocks/morefield.htm Cheap plug here, you can check out my wife's page at http://www.wovengems.com. and yes, the capitalized Rocks is necessary in the url. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA Amelia County is chock-full of pegmatites. Some of the prettiest amazonite comes from there, as well as a good amount of the tantalite/columbite group. I have heard about people taking big geiger counters to some of the old mines and finding a mint in columbite/tantalite. I think they are selling it for manufacturing instead of selling as mineral specimens. Amethyst is known to be in some of the pegs, but I have never seen any specimens labeled from there. I have seen some that came from fields in the Shenendoah Valley, some really beatiful stuff, but cannot find the actual location. index.html From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Jun 15 11:12:46 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Jun 15 11:12:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] was ALL CAPS Now Vivianite In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606151003p7cc9f4e4nebfc996f0e4afc34@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00d501c690a7$203c51c0$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Drew: Yeah, I've been on a few myself with her book. Though I consider her directions difficult at best, I believe the rock hunting references are mostly genuine; just purposely obtuse or wrong. I still use it for ideas, only I try to get directions or introductions elsewhere. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Drew Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:03 PM To: Ted@crystalgems.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] was ALL CAPS Now Vivianite Ted, The book you refer to has gotten me overly-excited one too many times. I really like the book, but directions to the locations are very hard to decipher. I have been on a few goose chases because of that book! Drew On 15 Jun 2006 09:57:12 -0700, Ted Kowalski wrote: > > > Al & Drew: > OK; now you're really testing my weak memory. It took a bit of looking, > but > I turned up the reference for vivianite within Richmond Virginia city > limits. > June Culp Zeitner in her "Appalachian Mineral & Gem Trails" reports the > finding of vivianite in Richmond at the construction site of a > road/tunnel. > Ms. Zeitner reports that the road/tunnel was to be connected to a state > office building. My copy was printed in 1975 with the first printing in > 1968. She also reports that a nearby construction site did not have any > vivianite found. > > The Richmond vivianite was reported as occurrences of altered fossil whale > bone. > > I also heard the story as history at a meeting if the Richmond Gem and > Mineral Society (RGMS) who managed to gain access to the dig site. > > Ted Kowalski > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > >Where abouts did you collect in Richmond? I heard about some vivianite > >found in downtown Richmond while they were building a bridge or > something. > >There are some of those on the market, although I have never been a big > >vivianite person (unless I found some myself). > > Now you're testing my memory, which isn't that great . The one > place I remember was an amethyst location near Amelia Courthouse. An > old lady showed us some samples, collected $5.00 each, and pointed us > to the dig. Unfortunately, it hadn't been touched in years, and really > needed some power equipment to stir things up. We didn't get any good > specimens. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Thu Jun 15 11:27:19 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jun 15 11:27:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] DAN - 1 to 1 mix ? MINERAL Oil or water In-Reply-To: <200606151544.k5FFiwS1026451@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <2uu2921tfnbvv6e8j45306tlk62fu2bduc@4ax.com> <200606151544.k5FFiwS1026451@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <3a93921ofb2371if772qd2gkius12ov2vi@4ax.com> On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 09:44:55 -0600, "Bob Loeffler" wrote: >Maybe this has already been mentioned (I deleted a lot of the argumentative >posts), but would heating up the gelled oil cause it to liquefy faster? And >then it could be strained? That way you wouldn't have to add new oil to it. >I don't do any cutting or use oils, so I have no experience with this, but >maybe heating it a little might help (like heating Jello will "melt" it into >a liquid). > Good thought. Next time, I could try the opposite of the "leave it out in the winter" technique - "leave it out in the summer" here in Phoenix should warm it up nicely. The other thing I remember from chemistry class is the vacuum filter. If you can pull a vacuum on the bottom, or (easier) put pressure on the top, it should speed up the filtration. Hmmm... I'm thinking bucket, rubber cover, weight ... any more ideas? >Regards, > >Bob > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Al Balmer >Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 9:26 AM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] DAN - 1 to 1 mix ? MINERAL Oil or water > >On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 01:45:20 EDT, Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > >> >>In a message dated 6/14/2006 3:34:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>rocknlight@aol.com writes: >> >>Dan >> >>You might want to try mixing one part fresh mineral oil and one part of >the >>old gelled oil and then stir it all up real good to liquefy the mix as >much >>as possible and THEN drain it all through the paper sacks - >> >>Doing so, may go a long way to recovering 90 plus percent of all the old >and >>new oil through the bag.. >> >>Good luck and thank you for all your great information.. >> >>MM4F >> >> >>Thanks for the hint. Worth a try. It's at the stage right now where it's >>hard to tell apart from pudding. >> >Let us know (in a couple of months :-) whether it seems to help. My >guess is that it will just get down to the same level and turn into >pudding again. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From albalmer at att.net Thu Jun 15 11:37:15 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jun 15 11:37:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor strike on the moon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:58:41 -0400, "J Bryan Kramer" wrote: >Spotted this interesting report: > > > >And still haven't seen anything more on the reported Norway strike. > A Google News search for "Norway meteor" finds five articles, including this one: http://space.about.com/b/a/256708.htm which has links to a picture of the impact site. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Jun 15 11:37:17 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Jun 15 11:37:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Virginia Minerals In-Reply-To: <00d501c690a7$203c51c0$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <00d501c690a7$203c51c0$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <8A0145AC-9238-4577-B601-2688F4A95362@cox.net> Gentlemen, A member of the Lynchburg Gem and Mineral club is also a Geologist for the State of Virginia. He is an incredible source of information on Minerals found in Virginia. I have lost an active email address for him, and therefore do not have permission to identify him to this list. My suggestion is to either attend a Lynchburg Club meeting, or check out their web site, then ask. Terrie From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Thu Jun 15 11:43:23 2006 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Thu Jun 15 11:43:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vivianite in the Coastal Plain Message-ID: <4491AA4B.60709@ncmail.net> List, Vivianite is more common in the Coastal Plain of VA & NC than you might expect. Dr. Pei Lin Tein published an article in Min Rec about 30 years ago about some vivianite nodules he found in a quarry near Wilmington, NC. The Tertiary units of the Coastal Plain are rich in phosphate. Remember the mine at Lee Creek exploits a Miocene phosphate deposit, the Pungo River Formation. All of the units that overlie the Pungo River contain reworked phosphate. Iron is no problem, the ground water is saturated. All the chemical ingredients are there. Back in the late 70's, I was paddling a canoe up Fishing Creek in Edgecombe County, NC looking for macrofossils. One outcrop I passed was the blue-gray Yorktown Formation (which overlies the Pungo River at the Lee Creek mine), overlain by orange, iron-rich "Recent" sands. I scratched at the contact, found no fossils and continued upstream. Several hours later when I came back downstream past the same outcrop, I noticed a bright blue coloration covering all of my scrape marks. The loose scraped material was full of small, 2-4 mm, flakes and masses of you guessed it, vivianite. Apparently they were colorless when I fist exposed the and over the next few hours, they oxidized to the typical blue color. Any outcrop of the Yorktown Formation, like around Richmond, may contain vivianite. Unfortunately, the Richmond crystal clusters have not held up well over time. Many of the clusters have fallen apart. Sad. Kenny NC Geological Survey From albalmer at att.net Thu Jun 15 11:44:04 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Jun 15 11:44:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amelia County, Virginia USA In-Reply-To: <00ca01c690a5$5591a610$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <7aac8040606151000m21c37384qb481639c3f9562dd@mail.gmail.com> <00ca01c690a5$5591a610$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <2aa3921t7546dkukv8grhb79jr1lagnvv8@4ax.com> On 15 Jun 2006 10:59:59 -0700 Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:58:21 -0400, "Ted Kowalski" wrote: > > >Drew and AL: >I may be intruding a little often here, but you two keep pushing my >buttons... Maybe, in my case, that's just a button. Intruding? Of course not - that's what the list is for. Drew and I started an argument just to get the attention of real rockhounds like you . Had to do something to get away from all the politics and global hot air. > >I did go through my rocks from the Morefield mine trip two weeks ago and I >spent some time this past week enlarging views of certain minerals (I used a >deck screw to pry off unwanted feldspar). > >Anyway; I did a quick posting of some of these items on a web page (My >wife's web site, but not linked to or from her main page). >You can check them out here, including three pieces of amethyst. The piece >of granite they are on is 4" (100mm) long. Please note these photos are >mostly between 100 and 200K in size. Very slow on dialup. >http://www.wovengems.com/Rocks/morefield.htm > Wow. Thank you. I think you've influenced the routing on our next trip from Phoenix back to NY. >Cheap plug here, you can check out my wife's page at >http://www.wovengems.com. > >and yes, the capitalized Rocks is necessary in the url. > >Ted Kowalski >Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > >Amelia County is chock-full of pegmatites. Some of the prettiest amazonite >comes from there, as well as a good amount of the tantalite/columbite >group. I have heard about people taking big geiger counters to some of the >old mines and finding a mint in columbite/tantalite. I think they are >selling it for manufacturing instead of selling as mineral specimens. > >Amethyst is known to be in some of the pegs, but I have never seen any >specimens labeled from there. I have seen some that came from fields in the >Shenendoah Valley, some really beatiful stuff, but cannot find the actual >location. > >index.html > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 11:47:28 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Jun 15 11:47:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteor strike on the moon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Interesting, the initial report was rather exaggerated as expected. BK On 6/15/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:58:41 -0400, "J Bryan Kramer" > wrote: > > >Spotted this interesting report: > > > > > > > >And still haven't seen anything more on the reported Norway strike. > > > A Google News search for "Norway meteor" finds five articles, > including this one: > http://space.about.com/b/a/256708.htm > which has links to a picture of the impact site. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Jun 15 12:08:39 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Jun 15 12:08:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amelia County, Virginia USA In-Reply-To: <2aa3921t7546dkukv8grhb79jr1lagnvv8@4ax.com> References: <7aac8040606151000m21c37384qb481639c3f9562dd@mail.gmail.com> <00ca01c690a5$5591a610$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> <2aa3921t7546dkukv8grhb79jr1lagnvv8@4ax.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040606151208ie0ef200n2733e18295e2b74f@mail.gmail.com> Ted, is the amethyst from there all massive? Al, you may want to check up on the site before you make plans, http://www.toteshows.com/morefield.html... I believe it is open for a few more days, then closed for summer, then reopening this fall. Drew On 6/15/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On 15 Jun 2006 10:59:59 -0700 Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:58:21 -0400, "Ted > Kowalski" wrote: > > > > > > >Drew and AL: > >I may be intruding a little often here, but you two keep pushing my > >buttons... Maybe, in my case, that's just a button. > > Intruding? Of course not - that's what the list is for. Drew and I > started an argument just to get the attention of real rockhounds like > you . Had to do something to get away from all the politics and > global hot air. > > > >I did go through my rocks from the Morefield mine trip two weeks ago and > I > >spent some time this past week enlarging views of certain minerals (I > used a > >deck screw to pry off unwanted feldspar). > > > >Anyway; I did a quick posting of some of these items on a web page (My > >wife's web site, but not linked to or from her main page). > >You can check them out here, including three pieces of amethyst. The > piece > >of granite they are on is 4" (100mm) long. Please note these photos are > >mostly between 100 and 200K in size. Very slow on dialup. > >http://www.wovengems.com/Rocks/morefield.htm > > > Wow. Thank you. I think you've influenced the routing on our next trip > from Phoenix back to NY. > > >Cheap plug here, you can check out my wife's page at > >http://www.wovengems.com. > > > >and yes, the capitalized Rocks is necessary in the url. > > > >Ted Kowalski > >Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > > > >Amelia County is chock-full of pegmatites. Some of the prettiest > amazonite > >comes from there, as well as a good amount of the tantalite/columbite > >group. I have heard about people taking big geiger counters to some of > the > >old mines and finding a mint in columbite/tantalite. I think they are > >selling it for manufacturing instead of selling as mineral specimens. > > > >Amethyst is known to be in some of the pegs, but I have never seen any > >specimens labeled from there. I have seen some that came from fields in > the > >Shenendoah Valley, some really beatiful stuff, but cannot find the actual > >location. > > > >index.html > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Thu Jun 15 12:34:36 2006 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Thu Jun 15 12:35:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bye for now... In-Reply-To: <11156033.1150334117279.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <02e201c690b2$bd0b9870$81b988d9@Rik> Dear friends, I just wanted to let you know that after a very active period on this list up to about a year ago, and a lurking period during the last months, I will sign off for a while (not unsubscribing, just signing off temporarily). No blames or bad feelings from my side, but I just have seen too many posts here lately that have absolutely nothing to do with mineralogy. If someone wants to reach me : rik.dillen@skynet.be I will perhaps have a (lurking) look again in a few weeks or months to see if there is any improvement. I thank the list-team for their efforts (which I have always appreciated), and the list-members for their interesting contributions. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2007 - 5 and 6 May 2007 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From lanny at lrream.com Thu Jun 15 13:37:43 2006 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Jun 15 13:38:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Group field trip to Mica Mountain, Idaho, June 24 In-Reply-To: <448EFC92.5060407@verizon.net> References: <061320061408.21312.448EC6EE0003975500005340215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <448EFC92.5060407@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1d8d370facaea1c8e3d54afb0fb10bf1@lrream.com> The Muscovite Mine was the largest mica mine in the area with the greatest production during WW II. There are several other mines and most of them also probably had the greatest production during that time. These are on large pegmatites that are dominated by msucovite and feldspar. There are minor amounts of black tourmaline (probably all schorl), beryl and almandine (and/or other garnet). There was some mining attempts into the 1950s, especially at the Muscovite Mine where attempts were made to mine beryl, but there isn't enough there. You could still buy wood burning stoves in the 1960s (and 1970s?) with isinglass windows, so someone was mining muscovite in the world, but the Idaho mines were worn out by then. Some rehabilitation and safety work on the mine workings has been done in recent years, especially closing of adits (for safety, we all know how paranoid the local governments are about mine workings after so many hundreds of casual visitors die in them each year), with bat acceptable gates. Isn't much else to rehab; nature is doing a great job of taking over the old workings of these non-polluting mines. The mines aren't much for mineral specimens; typical simple pegmatites with no cavities. The tourmalines, garnets and beryl crystals rarely can be removed in good condition, but mostly they break. As for the mica, always kind of fun, but the big sheets are mostly underground and inaccessible. The Muscovite Mine pit is also being overtaken by nature and turning lush and green. Enjoy it now, it won't be accessible much longer. Regards, Lanny On Jun 13, 2006, at 10:57 AM, DonH wrote: > pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >> So just out of curiosity, Don & John, what part of Idaho is this in >> (not that I'm going). I must apologize, I don't remember (maybe >> never read it) the earlier post, and I've never heard of Mica >> Mountain, Idaho. Deary, Fernwood, and Santa do not quite mean >> anything to me; I judge that they are not some of Idaho's major >> cities. (About the only area I'm much familiar with personally is >> John Cornish's stomping ground near the Salmon River in eastern >> Idaho.) > > > Hi Pete, > > Well you could always take a plane ride! In my previous posts I may > have discussed that these localities are in the panhandle, not far > from the Eastern Washington border. You are right, these are all > pretty small towns; but, they can be found in a search. > > From what I understand, this pegmatite was a great source of mica in > decades past; I'd need to ask my advisor again about the details, but > I think a lot of it was used in WWII. > > This is one reason I report these trips; I'd imagine a lot of these > smaller and more obscure localities are under-reported and, for those > who make lists, you are free to cut-and-paste any information I post > into your localities file. > > > Don > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From tim at orerockon.com Thu Jun 15 13:42:55 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Jun 15 13:42:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Group field trip to Mica Mountain, Idaho, June 24 In-Reply-To: <1d8d370facaea1c8e3d54afb0fb10bf1@lrream.com> References: <061320061408.21312.448EC6EE0003975500005340215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <448EFC92.5060407@verizon.net> <1d8d370facaea1c8e3d54afb0fb10bf1@lrream.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060615134202.04501eb0@orerockon.com> My stove was made sometime after 1973 and has a muscovite window. At 01:37 PM 6/15/2006, you wrote: >The Muscovite Mine was the largest mica mine in the area with the >greatest production during WW II. There are several other mines and >most of them also probably had the greatest production during that >time. These are on large pegmatites that are dominated by msucovite >and feldspar. There are minor amounts of black tourmaline (probably >all schorl), beryl and almandine (and/or other garnet). There was >some mining attempts into the 1950s, especially at the Muscovite >Mine where attempts were made to mine beryl, but there isn't enough >there. You could still buy wood burning stoves in the 1960s (and >1970s?) with isinglass windows, so someone was mining muscovite in >the world, but the Idaho mines were worn out by then. > >Some rehabilitation and safety work on the mine workings has been >done in recent years, especially closing of adits (for safety, we >all know how paranoid the local governments are about mine workings >after so many hundreds of casual visitors die in them each year), >with bat acceptable gates. Isn't much else to rehab; nature is doing >a great job of taking over the old workings of these non-polluting mines. > >The mines aren't much for mineral specimens; typical simple >pegmatites with no cavities. The tourmalines, garnets and beryl >crystals rarely can be removed in good condition, but mostly they >break. As for the mica, always kind of fun, but the big sheets are >mostly underground and inaccessible. The Muscovite Mine pit is also >being overtaken by nature and turning lush and green. Enjoy it now, >it won't be accessible much longer. > >Regards, > >Lanny Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Jun 15 14:38:51 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Jun 15 14:38:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amelia County, Virginia USA In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606151208ie0ef200n2733e18295e2b74f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001c01c690c3$d267d380$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Drew: I have not seen any actual amethyst crystal points if that is what you mean... All of the crystal points I've seen have been clear. This is not to say, amethyst crystal points are not there, just that I haven't seen them. Then again, I've mostly seen the second leavings. There is, or used to be, an option to dig on an exposed section of the pegmatite. When I worked the pegmatite I found a lot of massive smoky quartz, but again no crystals. Al: Definitely call the mine before coming through. Even if they're not open they may consider opening by appointment for you. Ted. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Drew Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 3:09 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Amelia County, Virginia USA Ted, is the amethyst from there all massive? Al, you may want to check up on the site before you make plans, http://www.toteshows.com/morefield.html... I believe it is open for a few more days, then closed for summer, then reopening this fall. Drew On 6/15/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On 15 Jun 2006 10:59:59 -0700 Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:58:21 -0400, "Ted > Kowalski" wrote: > > > > > > >Drew and AL: > >I may be intruding a little often here, but you two keep pushing my > >buttons... Maybe, in my case, that's just a button. > > Intruding? Of course not - that's what the list is for. Drew and I > started an argument just to get the attention of real rockhounds like > you . Had to do something to get away from all the politics and > global hot air. > > > >I did go through my rocks from the Morefield mine trip two weeks ago and > I > >spent some time this past week enlarging views of certain minerals (I > used a > >deck screw to pry off unwanted feldspar). > > > >Anyway; I did a quick posting of some of these items on a web page (My > >wife's web site, but not linked to or from her main page). > >You can check them out here, including three pieces of amethyst. The > piece > >of granite they are on is 4" (100mm) long. Please note these photos are > >mostly between 100 and 200K in size. Very slow on dialup. > >http://www.wovengems.com/Rocks/morefield.htm > > > Wow. Thank you. I think you've influenced the routing on our next trip > from Phoenix back to NY. > > >Cheap plug here, you can check out my wife's page at > >http://www.wovengems.com. > > > >and yes, the capitalized Rocks is necessary in the url. > > > >Ted Kowalski > >Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > > > >Amelia County is chock-full of pegmatites. Some of the prettiest > amazonite > >comes from there, as well as a good amount of the tantalite/columbite > >group. I have heard about people taking big geiger counters to some of > the > >old mines and finding a mint in columbite/tantalite. I think they are > >selling it for manufacturing instead of selling as mineral specimens. > > > >Amethyst is known to be in some of the pegs, but I have never seen any > >specimens labeled from there. I have seen some that came from fields in > the > >Shenendoah Valley, some really beatiful stuff, but cannot find the actual > >location. > > > >index.html > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pttrefrn at triwest.net Thu Jun 15 18:48:09 2006 From: pttrefrn at triwest.net (Ron and Pat Potter-Efron) Date: Thu Jun 15 18:43:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tolkien and Rocks References: <2f16ceba0604171844l6a1fd6b2t82ad31980cdc938d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004601c690e6$eb949960$ce690445@triwest.net> mithril is the mettle of the heart ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Fox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 2:28 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Tolkien and Rocks > > noticed there is a lot about the Dwarves and their mines. Since > > Tolkien seemed pretty meticulous in his research, I wonder if he based > > "mithril" on any actual mineral, or if he had any rockhound > > expierience of his own. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithril > > According to the American Chemical Society , an alloy made of yttrium and > silver is 'as close as we can come': > > * http://www.chemistry.org/portal/a/c/s/1/acsdisplay.html?DOC=HomeMolecule%5Carchive%5Cmotw_mithril_arch.html > * http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nmat/journal/v2/n9/abs/nmat958.html > > > This, of course, does not answer your question about whether Tolkien was a > rockhound. Best I can offer is his biography: > > http://www.tolkiensociety.org/tolkien/biography.html > > >From reading the man's biography and from having read the Trillogy several > times, I would hazard to guess that, rather than being a 'rockhound', > Tolkien is better described as an appreciative naturalist. I would suspect > he was less interested in the science aspect of geology and more > interested in the landscapes that result. But that's just me... > > a. > > -- > afox at panix dot com || http://www.panix.com/~afox > Go: It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye... > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Fri Jun 16 08:31:30 2006 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Fri Jun 16 08:31:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amelia amethyst Message-ID: <4492CED2.8020101@ncmail.net> Drew, Crystals of amethyst have been found in the Amelia County area. I'm not sure if the amethyst was associated with the amazonite-bearing pegmatites or some other host rock. The name of the mine escapes me, old age, but it was not the Morefield or Rutherford mines. I have a very nice dark purple, transparent crystal cluster about the size of a softball, in my collection from Amelia Co. I can get the mine name tonight when I get home if you want it. Kenny NC Geological Survey From dr00bert at gmail.com Fri Jun 16 09:26:07 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Fri Jun 16 09:26:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amelia amethyst In-Reply-To: <4492CED2.8020101@ncmail.net> References: <4492CED2.8020101@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040606160926g1a5ac9d8uac970a5cdf3057ad@mail.gmail.com> If you don't mind, that would be great! It wasn't the Ligon Prospect was it? Drew On 6/16/06, Kenny Gay wrote: > > Drew, > Crystals of amethyst have been found in the Amelia County area. I'm not > sure if the amethyst was associated with the amazonite-bearing > pegmatites or some other host rock. The name of the mine escapes me, old > age, but it was not the Morefield or Rutherford mines. I have a very > nice dark purple, transparent crystal cluster about the size of a > softball, in my collection from Amelia Co. I can get the mine name > tonight when I get home if you want it. > Kenny > NC Geological Survey > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Fri Jun 16 10:24:06 2006 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Fri Jun 16 10:24:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amelia amethyst In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606160926g1a5ac9d8uac970a5cdf3057ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <4492CED2.8020101@ncmail.net> <7aac8040606160926g1a5ac9d8uac970a5cdf3057ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4492E936.3000200@ncmail.net> Drew wrote: > If you don't mind, that would be great! It wasn't the Ligon Prospect was > it? > > Drew > Drew, Honestly I really can't remember. Ligon mine/prospect sounds correct, but let me check. Kenny From efkern at earthlink.net Fri Jun 16 15:20:04 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Fri Jun 16 15:19:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NORWEGIAN FIREBALL Message-ID: <000301c69193$052ccd00$f6f8f604@TheBlackAdder> This just in.... Space Weather News for June 16, 2006 http://spaceweather.com NORWEGIAN FIREBALL: A spectacular fireball that flew over Norway last week, causing sonic booms and making the ground shake when a meteorite presumably hit the ground, was not quite as spectacular as first reported. Researchers now estimate the kinetic energy of the event as 300 tons of TNT, far short of the Hiroshima-like blast described in some news reports. Space rocks with this much energy hit Earth more often than is commonly supposed--once a month or so. Most go unnoticed because they enter the atmosphere over uninhabited stretches of our planet, or during broad daylight when fireballs are difficult to see, or at late hours of the night when would-be sky watchers are asleep. This one was seen (and by some accounts felt), so it made a bigger "splash" than usual. Searchers are still scouring the countryside for possible fragments of the meteorite. MARS AND SATURN: After passing through the Beehive star cluster last night, Mars is on a collision course with Saturn--at least it looks that way. The two planets will not collide, but they will have a pleasing close encounter in the evening sky on Saturday night, June 17th. Look west after sunset. Visit http://spaceweather.com for sky maps and further information. From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Jun 16 16:56:04 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Jun 16 16:56:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NORWEGIAN FIREBALL References: <000301c69193$052ccd00$f6f8f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <001d01c691a0$6dd0e780$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> According to the local TV meteorologist, a 26 pound meteorite was found in a 3' diameter crater. I heard a meteor explode overhead in 1977 -- it sounded like a sonic boom. About five meteorites were later found scattered around central Louisville. I saw the largest piece (fist-sized), which punched a hole in the roof of a house and shattered a beam in the attic. It was supposed to go to the brand new facility of our 100-year old Louisville Museum of Natural History and Science, but the Smithsonian meteorite people got hold of it and refused to give it up. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erich Kern" To: "Rockhounds" Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 6:20 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] NORWEGIAN FIREBALL > > > > This just in.... > > Space Weather News for June 16, 2006 > http://spaceweather.com > > NORWEGIAN FIREBALL: A spectacular fireball that flew over Norway last > week, > causing sonic booms and making the ground shake when a meteorite > presumably > hit the ground, was not quite as spectacular as first reported. > Researchers > now estimate the kinetic energy of the event as 300 tons of TNT, far short > of the Hiroshima-like blast described in some news reports. > > Space rocks with this much energy hit Earth more often than is commonly > supposed--once a month or so. Most go unnoticed because they enter the > atmosphere over uninhabited stretches of our planet, or during broad > daylight when fireballs are difficult to see, or at late hours of the > night > when would-be sky watchers are asleep. This one was seen (and by some > accounts felt), so it made a bigger "splash" than usual. Searchers are > still scouring the countryside for possible fragments of the meteorite. > > MARS AND SATURN: After passing through the Beehive star cluster last > night, > Mars is on a collision course with Saturn--at least it looks that way. > The > two planets will not collide, but they will have a pleasing close > encounter > in the evening sky on Saturday night, June 17th. Look west after sunset. > > Visit http://spaceweather.com for sky maps and further information. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rockhound at btinternet.com Sat Jun 17 02:31:34 2006 From: rockhound at btinternet.com (Neil A) Date: Sat Jun 17 02:31:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NORWEGIAN FIREBALL In-Reply-To: <001d01c691a0$6dd0e780$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: Seismic monitoring should be able to find the location of Ground Zero quite accurately. When I was in the mountain rescue, the BGS reported an unknown impact in the Scottish Borders region and we were dispatched to locate what turned out to be a downed plane way before it was even reported missing. Edinburgh apparently also picked up a seismic from one of our over-enthusiastic blasts in a stope at South Crofty mine in Cornwall. Regards Neil A -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Alan Goldstein Sent: 17 June 2006 00:56 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] NORWEGIAN FIREBALL According to the local TV meteorologist, a 26 pound meteorite was found in a 3' diameter crater. I heard a meteor explode overhead in 1977 -- it sounded like a sonic boom. About five meteorites were later found scattered around central Louisville. I saw the largest piece (fist-sized), which punched a hole in the roof of a house and shattered a beam in the attic. It was supposed to go to the brand new facility of our 100-year old Louisville Museum of Natural History and Science, but the Smithsonian meteorite people got hold of it and refused to give it up. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erich Kern" To: "Rockhounds" Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 6:20 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] NORWEGIAN FIREBALL > > > > This just in.... > > Space Weather News for June 16, 2006 > http://spaceweather.com > > NORWEGIAN FIREBALL: A spectacular fireball that flew over Norway last > week, > causing sonic booms and making the ground shake when a meteorite > presumably > hit the ground, was not quite as spectacular as first reported. > Researchers > now estimate the kinetic energy of the event as 300 tons of TNT, far short > of the Hiroshima-like blast described in some news reports. > > Space rocks with this much energy hit Earth more often than is commonly > supposed--once a month or so. Most go unnoticed because they enter the > atmosphere over uninhabited stretches of our planet, or during broad > daylight when fireballs are difficult to see, or at late hours of the > night > when would-be sky watchers are asleep. This one was seen (and by some > accounts felt), so it made a bigger "splash" than usual. Searchers are > still scouring the countryside for possible fragments of the meteorite. > > MARS AND SATURN: After passing through the Beehive star cluster last > night, > Mars is on a collision course with Saturn--at least it looks that way. > The > two planets will not collide, but they will have a pleasing close > encounter > in the evening sky on Saturday night, June 17th. Look west after sunset. > > Visit http://spaceweather.com for sky maps and further information. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Sat Jun 17 11:33:10 2006 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Sat Jun 17 11:33:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: topic change to Brookings,OR In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060614182335.0269b0f8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: Tim, you forgot gold! Gold Beach is called that for a reason. The Chetco River still has gold in it. I know a guy that still has a gold claim up in the Kalmiopsis wilderness area. He has to hike in and he helicoters the equipment in every year and the gold he takes out more than pays his expenses. A small gold pan may bring a little color down at the beach! Dawn From kadok at infowest.com Sat Jun 17 14:32:12 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Jun 17 14:32:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NORWEGIAN FIREBALL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001301c69255$7ed48450$0200a8c0@kadok> Yes -- provided that they have seismic monitoring that covers that quite remote location --. Do they, does anyone know? Does our own monitoring detect things that far away? And also provided they can find it among the trees and rocks on that mountainside. Margaret >Seismic monitoring should be able to find the location of Ground Zero quite >accurately. Regards Neil A From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Sat Jun 17 14:58:54 2006 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Sat Jun 17 14:58:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] NORWEGIAN FIREBALL In-Reply-To: <001301c69255$7ed48450$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <012501c69259$3a9ead20$c745450a@KayDesk> Margaret asked > >Yes -- provided that they have seismic monitoring that covers >that quite remote location --. Do they, does anyone know? >Does our own monitoring detect things that far away? Not only the US has seismographs. I suggest you look at http://www.norsar.no/seismology for more info on their research and at http://www.norsar.no/NDC/bulletins/ There is a map of their automatic Monitoring stations... In addition links to other regional monitoring centers http://www.norsar.no/NDC/bulletins/regional/cooperating.html Kay From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Jun 17 17:11:27 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Jun 17 17:11:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip Report 6/13/2006 Message-ID: Several members of our family, including Jeanette & Glenn Wimpee and Katherine, Jessie, & Katlin Fleshman (members and junior members of the Mobile Rock and Gem Society) and James, Beth & Kristin Mayo and Josh Fleshman made a day trip to Old St. Stevens Limestone Quarry in Washington County, Alabama. The quarry ceased mining operations many years ago and left a nice lake in its pit. It lies on the banks of the Tombigbee River and is host to lots of fossils about 100 million years old. We took a short hike through the old town which was once the Territorial Capital of Alabama circa 1810. Now it is grown up in flora with a few foundation structures visible. Most of the town's bricks were moved to Clark County during the Civil War. There was a traveling preacher who fell from favor of the townsfolk and was run out of town with a fresh layer of tar and feathers. As he was fleeing, he cursed the town to be reduced to rubble and overgrown with trees and underbrush, as it really is now. We stopped at the park store and paid a very reasonable day use fee to help keep the place open. It is in Alabama, and Governor Bob Riley cut all state funding to the park in his massive budget cuts. We visited briefly with the operator, and apparently they are primarily concerned with keeping the park open and preserving the artifacts. She had no concern with us collecting a few fossils. Next order of business was a swim and some snorkeling in the clear, warm waters of the lake. There is a cave 30 feet down in the east part of the swimming area. I discovered my wind is not what it once was on my first and only dive to its mouth. I realized I needed air before getting back to the surface, and decided against further diving to the cave. The clear water quickly became murky with silt and algae and there was little visibility below about 15 to 20 feet anyway. The water is much cooler as the depth increases.The wall is a near straight drop to the cave. It is all limestone and many fossil shells are visible in the matrix. One part of the lake is 90 feet deep and is frequented by scuba divers. The bottom is covered in loose silt. We swam and snorkeled in shallower water and soon discovered a submerged mound of small fossiliferous limestone boulders. We also made a short hike along the bank of the river which is very low after a recent long drought. The fossil containing limestone layer is exposed on the south bank. Boulders of limestone are piled along the public boat ramp. Many are thick with fossils. We found only one shark tooth, but lots of fossil seashells including small oysters, a couple of barnacles and one nice periarchus echinoid. We made a stop at a spring fed indian bath in the park. The stone had been hewn in the shape of a large rectangular tub. The spring flows through to help keep the water in the tub fresh. From there we went to a late lunch at the Creekbank Cafe then crossed the river into Clark County and to Salt Mine Road where we found some nice Alabama Seam Agate and a couple of gastropods. The gastropods look like worthenia. Having had enough for one day we headed south for home. It was a very good day. Glenn Wimpee _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Jun 17 19:02:09 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Jun 17 19:08:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip Report 6/13/2006 References: Message-ID: <002d01c6927b$3c091a20$0300a8c0@Notebook> Thanks for the report Glenn! It reminded me of my college years in Carbondale (Southern Illinois) where we would go swimming in the local lakes, many of which were reclaimed mines. Summer there was always muggy and in the 100's. Lake water would reach 85 degrees on the surface so we would rent scuba gear and lie in the cold mud at the bottom to cool off. There was one lake where we would go cliff diving. It was a great place to dive for missing jewelry! (Does this make this post on-topic?) We took a canoe trip down the Eleven Point River in Missouri one summer and spelunked a HUGE cave along the way. I forget exactly where it was but we had to crawl through a small opening that opened up into an area that would hold several shopping malls. Spectacular! A friend had supplied us with several carbide lamps for illumination. Then there was rappelling off the cliffs and playing in the caves at Giant City State Park south of Carbondale. A must-see if anyone visits the area. Sorry for waxing rhapsodic. I'm just in from mowing and acre of grass after sitting on my butt for two weeks watching it rain. Clearly, I've had too much oxygen. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" Several members of our family made a day trip to Old St. Stevens Limestone Quarry in Washington County, Alabama. From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Jun 18 12:20:45 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Jun 18 12:20:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Eastern Wash. state and western Idaho rockshops and dig locations / thanks for Arizona suggestions Message-ID: <000301c6930c$4e43bab0$67fcf604@TheBlackAdder> Thanks to all who posted suggestions for our recent trip to Arizona. The rock shop in Globe was closed over the Memorial Day weekend, so we didn't get to see the inside of it. The rock shop in Payson was open, and we spent an hour chatting with the helpful new owners and spent a few bucks too. Here's their web URL: http://www.galarneausgems.com/ Since we had only 3 days to cover 1,100 miles, we didn't have time to investigate the dig locations a few posted to the list. We're mainly looking for a new place to live and look at some minerals while we do. The Arizona Mining and Mineral Museum in Phoenix is outstanding. Better for minerals in my opinion than the Natural History Museum in London which is saying a lot. That said, the NHM, London has some very old collections of historical significance. In two weeks we'll be making a 3,000 mile drive up to Spokane, Washington through western Idaho and Missoula, Montana. Returning a different route through Walla Walla, WA and eastern Oregon. Doing all of this in eight days won't leave any time for serious digging, except for a roadcut 1/2 mile outside of Coulterville, CA to collect a couple of flats of Mariposite; dark green on snowy white matrix. Please post or send off list efkern@earthlink.net any suggestions on eastern Washington, western Montana and western Idaho rock shops, road cuts or great places to live. California's getting too expensive; property taxes this year were four grand, gas is 40 cents cheaper in neighboring states than in CA. Thanks again to those who emailed their suggestions on Arizona. Erich Kern So. California From jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com Sun Jun 18 14:33:34 2006 From: jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com (jennifer) Date: Sun Jun 18 14:33:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clubs or Groups in South East Florida In-Reply-To: <20060505184832.64578.qmail@web38811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Have moved to Florida (near Boca and Delray Beach) and wondering where the nearest rock and mineral club is. Anyone know? thanks! jennifer From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Jun 18 15:19:30 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Jun 18 15:14:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clubs or Groups in South East Florida References: Message-ID: <4495D043.3ABF@Tomaszewski.net> jennifer wrote: > > Have moved to Florida (near Boca and Delray Beach) and wondering where the > nearest rock and mineral club is. Anyone know? > > thanks! > > jennifer > Jennifer, AFMS has a list of US clubs on their website at http://www.amfed.org CCFMS has a list of North American clubs with websites at http://www.ccfms.ca/Online_Resources/other_clubs.htm You should be able to find a Club near you on one of these websites. Kreigh From jpjunk at mc.net Sun Jun 18 20:37:41 2006 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Sun Jun 18 20:46:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon or Washington collecting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We'll be visiting the Olympic Peninsula and the Hoh rainforest next month and hope to drive down the coast and spend some time beachcombing and rockhounding. Can anyone recommend any sites? Thanks, John Junkroski On Jun 17, 2006, at 1:33 PM, Dawn M. Fredricks wrote: > > Tim, you forgot gold! Gold Beach is called that for a reason. The > Chetco River still has gold in it. I know a guy that still has a > gold claim up in the Kalmiopsis wilderness area. > (SNIP) From johnjold at comcast.net Mon Jun 19 06:35:52 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Mon Jun 19 06:36:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds update Message-ID: <39c87509f97c3afe446830b90de6e106@comcast.net> This should be of concern to anyone who has posted anything on this list. Amazon feels free to use their leachbot to search keywords for postings to use as reviews. When looking at cached Google pages the "logic" of Amazon's retarded computer was clear as all keywords were highlighted. Besides the dubious link to the two books previously mentioned I am tied into a video "Merlin and the Crystal Cave." I can see that connection to the list however why I am also tied to "Why New Orleans Matters" was a mystery to me. I also found 3 reviews for books at Rbookshop.com. Contacting them, I found that they buy their reviews from Amazon. They were under the J.J. John Joldersma reviewer name. None of these even came close to reality Rbookshop suggested that someone else had the same name and that I should not get too worked up over it. Now there are 2 John Joldersma's in the Grand Rapids area. The other is a retired minister and board member of Calvin College. I suggested that I seriously doubted that he wrote the first review on my list either, this was for the song "Suck My Ass It Smells" on the album Freaks, Faggots, Drunks & Junkies by G.G. Allen. However, I have been getting the Revs phone calls on occasions to do weddings and funerals for 40 years. I remembered that at the time of Katrina, I had several phone calls looking for the Revs sister in law from that area. I would guess that the Rev posted something about New Orleans and that was also grabbed by the leachbot. I also have a unique problem with the leachbot in that I am tied in with another reviewer Jerold J. H. Mason screen name (Fastreader). My screen name is (Speedreader58). The leachbot had taken actual reviews by Fastreader and put my name and address on them. Only to a computer would Fastreader=Speedreader58. Other reviews dumped into my list included anything about Grand Rapids and anything about Korea and teaching in Korea. That explains the 101 reviews I unwittingly "did". HOW TO CHECK YOUR OWN "REVIEWS"! Google your name + Amazon Any "reviews" you have "done" will show up like this Amazon.com: Merlin of the Crystal Cave : Video This item is not eligible for Amazon Prime, but over a million other items are. ... Reviewer:, JJ "John Joldersma" (Grand Rapids, MI) - See all my reviews ... cruel.imdb.com/ra/us/eo/ASIN/B00008T3ZR - 76k - Cached - Similar?pages Please email any hits to me off list. I want to know how widespread the problem is. John J --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/enriched --- From albalmer at att.net Mon Jun 19 08:17:00 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Jun 19 08:17:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds update In-Reply-To: <39c87509f97c3afe446830b90de6e106@comcast.net> References: <39c87509f97c3afe446830b90de6e106@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:35:52 -0400, John Joldersma wrote: > This should be of concern to anyone who has posted anything on >this list. > > Amazon feels free to use their leachbot to search keywords for >postings to use as reviews. Have you contacted Amazon about this yet? -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Mon Jun 19 08:26:17 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Mon Jun 19 08:21:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds update In-Reply-To: <39c87509f97c3afe446830b90de6e106@comcast.net> Message-ID: John and others, This issue seems to broadening out, making waves, appearing to be a nationwide, and questionable, practise. I'd say there is a serious story here for the public press. I'd suggest that you, or someone else on the list who has active media contacts in some major city like New York or LA (my own being pretty much all in the past, and not metropolitan), or with a major publication (Wall Street Journal would be nice), should try to interest the papers in what seems to be an unfolding and "newsworthy" scandal. Cheers Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada On Monday, June 19, 2006, at 10:35 AM, John Joldersma wrote: > This should be of concern to anyone who has posted anything on > this list. > > Amazon feels free to use their leachbot to search keywords for > postings to use as reviews. > When looking at cached Google pages the "logic" of Amazon's retarded > computer was clear as > all keywords were highlighted. > Besides the dubious link to the two books previously mentioned I > am tied into a video "Merlin > and the Crystal Cave." I can see that connection to the list however > why I am also tied to "Why New > Orleans Matters" was a mystery to me. > > I also found 3 reviews for books at Rbookshop.com. Contacting > them, I found that they buy > their reviews from Amazon. They were under the J.J. John Joldersma > reviewer name. None of > these even came close to reality > Rbookshop suggested that someone else had the same name and that > I should not get too worked > up over it. Now there are 2 John Joldersma's in the Grand Rapids > area. The other is a retired > minister and board member of Calvin College. I suggested that I > seriously doubted that he wrote the > first review on my list either, this was for the song "Suck My Ass It > Smells" on the album Freaks, > Faggots, Drunks & Junkies by G.G. Allen. However, I have been getting > the Revs phone calls on > occasions to do weddings and funerals for 40 years. I remembered that > at the time of Katrina, I had > several phone calls looking for the Revs sister in law from that area. > I would guess that the Rev posted > something about New Orleans and that was also grabbed by the leachbot. > > I also have a unique problem with the leachbot in that I am tied > in with another reviewer > Jerold J. H. Mason screen name (Fastreader). My screen name is > (Speedreader58). The > leachbot had taken actual reviews by Fastreader and put my name and > address on them. > Only to a computer would Fastreader=Speedreader58. > > Other reviews dumped into my list included anything about Grand > Rapids and anything > about Korea and teaching in Korea. That explains the 101 reviews I > unwittingly "did". > > HOW TO CHECK YOUR OWN "REVIEWS"! > > Google your name + Amazon > > Any "reviews" you have "done" will show up like this > > Amazon.com: Merlin of the Crystal Cave : Video > This item is not eligible for Amazon Prime, but over a million other > items are. > ... Reviewer:, JJ "John Joldersma" (Grand Rapids, MI) - See all my > reviews ... > cruel.imdb.com/ra/us/eo/ASIN/B00008T3ZR - 76k - Cached - Similar?pages > > Please email any hits to me off list. I want to know how widespread > the problem is. John J > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/enriched > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From mike at colellaphoto.com Mon Jun 19 10:03:37 2006 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Mon Jun 19 10:03:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Faceting question Message-ID: <200606191303920.SM01448@18P4> Question for facters and/or cad designers. I'm trying to construct LARGE wooden "faceted gems" for a display, in the area of 2x3 or 3x4 feet. How can I figure the dimensions & # of sides to create a few basis shapes. I also don't need ALL the facets, just enough to make the shape. Here are some samples. The typical diamond shape I would like about 4' tall and about 2-3' in diameter at the widest part. Any help would be great. I will be using 1/4 in plywood, so the bevels will not be necessary. Thanks, Mike HYPERLINK "mailto:mike@colellaphoto.com"mike@colellaphoto.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From ajs at frii.com Mon Jun 19 12:22:34 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Mon Jun 19 12:22:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] followup on Norway meteor Message-ID: <20060619192234.6A47A4D3E7@io.frii.com> FYI Sky & Telescope Magazine's website has a nice brief writeup: ... Norway Impact Gentler Than Atomic Bomb June 16, 2006 | News outlets reported last week that a meteorite struck a mountainside in Norway, releasing as much energy as the Hiroshima atomic bomb. Now researchers are reporting the first data from the blast, which shows that the event was much more tame. . . . > http://SkyandTelescope.com/news/article_1742_1.asp ... From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Jun 19 16:49:05 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Jun 19 16:46:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Faceting question References: <200606191303920.SM01448@18P4> Message-ID: <4497375E.7DBF@Tomaszewski.net> Mike, If GemCad does not scale to the size you need, take an existing GemCad design and just scale each of the edge lengths to suit your needs -- the angles will not change. www.gemcad.com for details. Kreigh Michael J. Colella wrote: > > Question for facters and/or cad designers. I'm trying to construct LARGE > wooden "faceted gems" for a display, in the area of 2x3 or 3x4 feet. > How can I figure the dimensions & # of sides to create a few basis shapes. I > also don't need ALL the facets, just enough to make the shape. > Here are some samples. The typical diamond shape I would like about 4' tall > and about 2-3' in diameter at the widest part. > Any help would be great. I will be using 1/4 in plywood, so the bevels will > not be necessary. > Thanks, > Mike > > HYPERLINK "mailto:mike@colellaphoto.com"mike@colellaphoto.com From mike at colellaphoto.com Mon Jun 19 20:11:17 2006 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Michael J. Colella) Date: Mon Jun 19 20:11:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Faceting question In-Reply-To: <4497375E.7DBF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <200606192311355.SM01448@18P4> Thanks, I'll check it out. Mike Michael J. Colella Colella Photography 2806 Jennings Rd. Kensington, MD 20895 Studio: 301-942-2853 Cell:301-520-9195 Web: http://colellaphoto.com E-mail: mike@colellaphoto.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 7:49 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Faceting question Mike, If GemCad does not scale to the size you need, take an existing GemCad design and just scale each of the edge lengths to suit your needs -- the angles will not change. www.gemcad.com for details. Kreigh Michael J. Colella wrote: > > Question for facters and/or cad designers. I'm trying to construct > LARGE wooden "faceted gems" for a display, in the area of 2x3 or 3x4 feet. > How can I figure the dimensions & # of sides to create a few basis > shapes. I also don't need ALL the facets, just enough to make the shape. > Here are some samples. The typical diamond shape I would like about 4' > tall and about 2-3' in diameter at the widest part. > Any help would be great. I will be using 1/4 in plywood, so the bevels > will not be necessary. > Thanks, > Mike > > HYPERLINK "mailto:mike@colellaphoto.com"mike@colellaphoto.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.0/368 - Release Date: 6/16/2006 From billtompkinscccc at comcast.net Tue Jun 20 06:39:47 2006 From: billtompkinscccc at comcast.net (billtompkinscccc@comcast.net) Date: Tue Jun 20 11:05:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] wtompkcccc@aol.com has a new email address Message-ID: <3037697.1150810787381.JavaMail.vmail@service5.colo.trueswitch.com> EasyChange wtompkcccc@aol.com has            Hello, I have just switched my e-mail address from wtompkcccc@aol.com to billtompkinscccc@comcast.net. Please use this new address for all future e-mails and instant messages. Switching was easy using EasyChange's automatic Internet account switching service. You should check it out! Thanks, billtompkinscccc@comcast.net billtompkinscccc@comcast.net                 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From johnjold at comcast.net Tue Jun 20 11:33:34 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Tue Jun 20 11:33:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds Message-ID: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net> I have not received any "reviews" from other list members. Are there none or is it that you are just afraid to look? I was leaning towards Hans suggestion anyway and I did email 3 news organizations this morning. I just spent an hour on the phone with a reporter. We looked at the same pages together and I think he has a good understanding of what is going on. He was as shocked at Amazon's practice as we were. Will let you know where to find the story as soon as I know. New found fame for the Drizzle List??? John J From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Tue Jun 20 11:50:57 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Tue Jun 20 11:46:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds In-Reply-To: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net> Message-ID: For my own part to be honest I simply haven't taken the time to look for what "reviews" I may have written. Maybe do so tonight. If I find do find any, I'll post the results to the list, and you'll certainly have my OK to pass the info (if there is any) on to your media guy. Meanwhile keep up the good work! Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada On Tuesday, June 20, 2006, at 03:33 PM, John Joldersma wrote: > I have not received any "reviews" from other list members. > Are there none or is it that you are just afraid to look? > > I was leaning towards Hans suggestion anyway and I did email > 3 news organizations this morning. I just spent an hour on the phone > with a reporter. We looked at the same pages together and I think he > has a good understanding of what is going on. He was as shocked at > Amazon's practice as we were. > > Will let you know where to find the story as soon as I know. > New found fame for the Drizzle List??? John J > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Jun 20 11:53:18 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Jun 20 11:53:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds In-Reply-To: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net> References: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net> Message-ID: How did you find it, just by googling your name? I tried my name + amazon and didn't see anything unexpected. BK On 6/20/06, John Joldersma wrote: > > I have not received any "reviews" from other list members. > Are there none or is it that you are just afraid to look? > > I was leaning towards Hans suggestion anyway and I did email > 3 news organizations this morning. I just spent an hour on the phone > with a reporter. We looked at the same pages together and I think he > has a good understanding of what is going on. He was as shocked at > Amazon's practice as we were. > > Will let you know where to find the story as soon as I know. > New found fame for the Drizzle List??? John J > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Tue Jun 20 11:58:00 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Jun 20 11:58:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds In-Reply-To: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net> References: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net> Message-ID: <13hg92tf9lhbh3j6nn7ig4k6otrbv2u6ti@4ax.com> On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:33:34 -0400, John Joldersma wrote: > I have not received any "reviews" from other list members. >Are there none or is it that you are just afraid to look? > I checked and didn't find any. A hint on searching with Google - if you find too many hits (Hans would probably get all the Hans Christian Anderson book references ;-), click the "Advanced search" button on restrict the search to just amazon.com. > I was leaning towards Hans suggestion anyway and I did email >3 news organizations this morning. I just spent an hour on the phone >with a reporter. We looked at the same pages together and I think he >has a good understanding of what is going on. He was as shocked at >Amazon's practice as we were. > > Will let you know where to find the story as soon as I know. > New found fame for the Drizzle List??? John J > Good show. I'm looking forward to the result. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Tue Jun 20 12:16:14 2006 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Tue Jun 20 12:16:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds In-Reply-To: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net> Message-ID: <021d01c6949e$01d88af0$c745450a@KayDesk> I took a look but Kay Davis is all too common a name -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Joldersma Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 2:34 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Cc: John Joldersma Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds I have not received any "reviews" from other list members. Are there none or is it that you are just afraid to look? I was leaning towards Hans suggestion anyway and I did email 3 news organizations this morning. I just spent an hour on the phone with a reporter. We looked at the same pages together and I think he has a good understanding of what is going on. He was as shocked at Amazon's practice as we were. Will let you know where to find the story as soon as I know. New found fame for the Drizzle List??? John J _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Jun 20 12:33:13 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Jun 20 12:33:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds In-Reply-To: <021d01c6949e$01d88af0$c745450a@KayDesk> References: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net> <021d01c6949e$01d88af0$c745450a@KayDesk> Message-ID: <7aac8040606201233w52fc7b59ice5e05c211966b2b@mail.gmail.com> I looked, but there was nothing... this could be due to my newbie status... Drew On 6/20/06, Kay Davis wrote: > > I took a look but Kay Davis is all too common a name > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Joldersma > Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 2:34 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Cc: John Joldersma > Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds > > I have not received any "reviews" from other list members. > Are there none or is it that you are just afraid to look? > > I was leaning towards Hans suggestion anyway and I did email > 3 news organizations this morning. I just spent an hour on the phone with > a > reporter. We looked at the same pages together and I think he has a good > understanding of what is going on. He was as shocked at Amazon's practice > as we were. > > Will let you know where to find the story as soon as I know. > New found fame for the Drizzle List??? John J > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Jun 20 14:26:25 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Jun 20 14:26:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds References: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net> Message-ID: <001801c694b0$2fe24230$b4fdf604@TheBlackAdder> Sorry, but I can't get excited about this issue, therefore I did not check for reviews in my name. I've long assumed that anything I post to an email list or a commercial website should not be accompanied by an expectation of ANY privacy. For that matter, sending any comments you wouldn't want repeated, to anyone, via email is risky business. Erich Kern Murrieta, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Joldersma" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: "John Joldersma" Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 11:33 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds I have not received any "reviews" from other list members. Are there none or is it that you are just afraid to look? I was leaning towards Hans suggestion anyway and I did email 3 news organizations this morning. I just spent an hour on the phone with a reporter. We looked at the same pages together and I think he has a good understanding of what is going on. He was as shocked at Amazon's practice as we were. Will let you know where to find the story as soon as I know. New found fame for the Drizzle List??? John J _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Tue Jun 20 17:18:52 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Jun 20 17:19:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds In-Reply-To: <001801c694b0$2fe24230$b4fdf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net> <001801c694b0$2fe24230$b4fdf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <4r3h92lfdmmi2a20apeni2qq5av55pqjem@4ax.com> On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:26:25 -0700, "Erich Kern" wrote: > > >Sorry, but I can't get excited about this issue, therefore I did not check for reviews in my >name. > >I've long assumed that anything I post to an email list or a commercial website should not be >accompanied by an expectation of ANY privacy. For that matter, sending any comments you wouldn't >want repeated, to anyone, via email is risky business. > Sorry, Erich, but you've completely missed the point. It's nothing to do with privacy. There are actually two points - first, Amazon is apparently using other peoples work without permission - if they do it in small ways, why won't they do it in larger ways? Second, they are publishing false reviews of their products, thereby defrauding their customers. >Erich Kern >Murrieta, CA > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Joldersma" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Cc: "John Joldersma" >Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 11:33 AM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds > > > I have not received any "reviews" from other list members. >Are there none or is it that you are just afraid to look? > > I was leaning towards Hans suggestion anyway and I did email >3 news organizations this morning. I just spent an hour on the phone >with a reporter. We looked at the same pages together and I think he >has a good understanding of what is going on. He was as shocked at >Amazon's practice as we were. > > Will let you know where to find the story as soon as I know. > New found fame for the Drizzle List??? John J > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Jun 20 17:44:46 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Jun 20 17:45:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds References: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net><001801c694b0$2fe24230$b4fdf604@TheBlackAdder> <4r3h92lfdmmi2a20apeni2qq5av55pqjem@4ax.com> Message-ID: <000501c694cb$e5e12f90$5cf8f604@TheBlackAdder> Al, OK, I didn't get half of the point...the part about attaching a person's name to something they did not write. That is dead wrong, we agree. Maybe it's because I never read Amazon's reviews. We buy most of our books from Amazon and I know what I'm looking for when I go to their web site, and buy it. I do pay attention to the ratings of the "Amazon marketplace" sellers when I buy used books, and fill out their online feedback form after the books arrive. The part about not getting permission to use some text posted to a list, including this one, is what I subsumed in the term 'privacy'. That would not concern me in the least if it happened to me. Now, if I wrote an article for our club newsletter and it appeared word-for-word in another club's newsletter attributed to a different author, I'd be mighty upset. Cheers, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Balmer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:26:25 -0700, "Erich Kern" wrote: > > >Sorry, but I can't get excited about this issue, therefore I did not check for reviews in my >name. > >I've long assumed that anything I post to an email list or a commercial website should not be >accompanied by an expectation of ANY privacy. For that matter, sending any comments you >wouldn't >want repeated, to anyone, via email is risky business. > Sorry, Erich, but you've completely missed the point. It's nothing to do with privacy. There are actually two points - first, Amazon is apparently using other peoples work without permission - if they do it in small ways, why won't they do it in larger ways? Second, they are publishing false reviews of their products, thereby defrauding their customers. >Erich Kern >Murrieta, CA > From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Tue Jun 20 18:12:48 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Tue Jun 20 18:08:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds In-Reply-To: <000501c694cb$e5e12f90$5cf8f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <0DC14D12-00C3-11DB-B07B-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi All, It might be good at this point to step back a bit from saying Amazon is doing this or that.A few list members this afternoon posted to say that they'd done the Google search of their own names in connection with Amazon and had come up negative. In addition to making sporadic but not all that infrequent posts to this list I also post from time to time to the "Orchid" list on gem and jewelry topics, plus I have the added exposure of having published in a variety of magazines and other media. Hence, I would have considered myself a somewhat plausible candidate for name-harvesting. But my search in connection with Amazon also came up negative. If the name harvesting for bogus reviews were indeed systematic I would have expected a number of list members by now to have said "I found my name used too." While the indications are still developing, they are beginning to suggest more of a one-off. Mind you they are still developing. Cheers all, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From geenet2 at mchsi.com Tue Jun 20 18:57:37 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Tue Jun 20 18:57:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds References: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net> Message-ID: <005b01c694d6$13a57300$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> I looked.....only reference to myself I found was as a member of the Church of Buffett. And I do a lot of shopping at Amazon.com, and others. I am on 5 email lists, registered at dozens of websites, and have been online about 15 years. I'm surprised. Jeanette Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds > I have not received any "reviews" from other list members. > Are there none or is it that you are just afraid to look? > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Jun 20 19:24:38 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jun 20 19:24:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds {ADMIN} In-Reply-To: <005b01c694d6$13a57300$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net> <005b01c694d6$13a57300$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060620162210.040badc8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Hello all, This has been interesting and thought-provoking, but maybe we should get back to rockhounding, and take this discussion off-List if it is to continue among those still interested in pursuing it. Aloha, Kitty At 03:57 PM 6/20/2006, you wrote: >I looked.....only reference to myself I found was as a member of the >Church of Buffett. And I do a lot of shopping at Amazon.com, and others. >I am on 5 email lists, registered at dozens of websites, and have been >online about 15 years. I'm surprised. >Jeanette From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Tue Jun 20 19:56:27 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Tue Jun 20 19:51:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds {ADMIN} In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20060620162210.040badc8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <886BBCCC-00D1-11DB-A234-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Good point. But I suspect many will be interested to hear what the outcome may be - if & when there is one. How about the rest of it off-list, and the outcome emailed - (whenever the dust may have settled) to a list Admin to maybe be relayed as an Admin post: "now you know the rest of the story." Just a suggestion. Cheers Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada ======= On Tuesday, June 20, 2006, at 11:24 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Hello all, > > This has been interesting and thought-provoking, but maybe we should > get back to rockhounding, and take this discussion off-List if it is > to continue among those still interested in pursuing it. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > At 03:57 PM 6/20/2006, you wrote: >> I looked.....only reference to myself I found was as a member of the >> Church of Buffett. And I do a lot of shopping at Amazon.com, and >> others. I am on 5 email lists, registered at dozens of websites, and >> have been online about 15 years. I'm surprised. >> Jeanette > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Jun 20 20:00:28 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Jun 20 20:00:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds {ADMIN} In-Reply-To: <886BBCCC-00D1-11DB-A234-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20060620162210.040badc8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <886BBCCC-00D1-11DB-A234-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060620165743.040b3ee0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> At the risk of sounding like Paul Harvey, relating the results as "the rest of the story" sounds good to me. Thanks, Hans, Aloha, Kitty At 04:56 PM 6/20/2006, you wrote: >Good point. But I suspect many will be interested to hear what the outcome >may be - if & when there is one. How about the rest of it off-list, and >the outcome emailed - (whenever the dust may have settled) to a list >Admin to maybe be relayed as an Admin post: "now you know the rest of the >story." > >Just a suggestion. > >Cheers >Hans Durstling >Moncton, >Canada > >======= >On Tuesday, June 20, 2006, at 11:24 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > >>Hello all, >> >>This has been interesting and thought-provoking, but maybe we should get >>back to rockhounding, and take this discussion off-List if it is to >>continue among those still interested in pursuing it. >> >>Aloha, Kitty From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Jun 20 20:54:05 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Jun 20 20:51:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hardness: Mohs scale and Rockwell scale? Message-ID: <4498C2DD.3070107@verizon.net> Hi, I was wondering if there is any published data on comparing the Mohs hardness scale with the equivalent Rockwell hardnesses for the 10 values. Reason: I see used Rockwell hardness kits for sale, cheap, and I figured this would be cooler than carrying around a bunch of 9 rocks. Don From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Tue Jun 20 20:55:20 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Tue Jun 20 20:55:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hardness: Mohs scale and Rockwell scale? In-Reply-To: <4498C2DD.3070107@verizon.net> References: <4498C2DD.3070107@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4498C328.2030005@jeanniusdesigns.com> I'm not sure there is any correlation as the Rockwell hardness, I believe, is a measure of hardness for metals only. It involves a point which is pushed into the metal for a given amount of time and the dent measured....there are different metal scales, incl. rockwell, vickers and others....but I don't think they would work on regular rocks since most minerals are NOT metals. Jeanne ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DonH wrote: > > Hi, > > I was wondering if there is any published data on comparing the Mohs > hardness scale with the equivalent Rockwell hardnesses for the 10 values. > > Reason: I see used Rockwell hardness kits for sale, cheap, and I > figured this would be cooler than carrying around a bunch of 9 rocks. > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Jun 20 21:54:20 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Jun 20 21:52:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hardness: Mohs scale and Rockwell scale? In-Reply-To: <4498C328.2030005@jeanniusdesigns.com> References: <4498C2DD.3070107@verizon.net> <4498C328.2030005@jeanniusdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4498D0FC.7010006@verizon.net> Jeanne Rhodes Moen wrote: > I'm not sure there is any correlation as the Rockwell hardness, I > believe, is a measure of hardness for metals only. Oh I see... since metals are usually malleable and ductile, this is more like a measure of resistance. Thanks for the info. I just find Mohs hardness tests to be not so useful when you're on the borderline between two hardnesses, and I don't like the fact that it is a totally relative scale. Don From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Tue Jun 20 21:55:51 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Tue Jun 20 21:56:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hardness: Mohs scale and Rockwell scale? In-Reply-To: <4498D0FC.7010006@verizon.net> References: <4498C2DD.3070107@verizon.net> <4498C328.2030005@jeanniusdesigns.com> <4498D0FC.7010006@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4498D157.9030700@jeanniusdesigns.com> My daughter did her science project on hardness of metals and melting point....so I had to help her look all that up. Jeanne ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DonH wrote: > Jeanne Rhodes Moen wrote: > >> I'm not sure there is any correlation as the Rockwell hardness, I >> believe, is a measure of hardness for metals only. > > Oh I see... since metals are usually malleable and ductile, this is > more like a measure of resistance. > > Thanks for the info. I just find Mohs hardness tests to be not so > useful when you're on the borderline between two hardnesses, and I > don't like the fact that it is a totally relative scale. > > Don > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Jun 20 22:11:54 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Jun 20 22:09:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hardness: Mohs scale and Rockwell scale? In-Reply-To: <4498D157.9030700@jeanniusdesigns.com> References: <4498C2DD.3070107@verizon.net> <4498C328.2030005@jeanniusdesigns.com> <4498D0FC.7010006@verizon.net> <4498D157.9030700@jeanniusdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4498D51A.7000305@verizon.net> Jeanne Rhodes Moen wrote: > My daughter did her science project on hardness of metals and melting > point....so I had to help her look all that up. > Oh cool. Did she do gallium? Melts in your hand, not in your mouth! D From jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com Tue Jun 20 22:13:28 2006 From: jeannius at jeanniusdesigns.com (Jeanne Rhodes Moen) Date: Tue Jun 20 22:13:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hardness: Mohs scale and Rockwell scale? In-Reply-To: <4498D51A.7000305@verizon.net> References: <4498C2DD.3070107@verizon.net> <4498C328.2030005@jeanniusdesigns.com> <4498D0FC.7010006@verizon.net> <4498D157.9030700@jeanniusdesigns.com> <4498D51A.7000305@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4498D578.80605@jeanniusdesigns.com> nope, just odds and ends I had in my studio....different qualities of gold and silver, copper, steel, brass etc Jeanne ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ DonH wrote: > Jeanne Rhodes Moen wrote: > >> My daughter did her science project on hardness of metals and melting >> point....so I had to help her look all that up. >> > > Oh cool. Did she do gallium? Melts in your hand, not in your mouth! > > D > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bobl at peaktopeak.com Wed Jun 21 00:10:46 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Wed Jun 21 00:10:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle Message-ID: <200606210710.k5L7Am2o032584@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi all, One of my rockhounding buddies e-mailed me a picture of a vehicle that tumbled down Mt. Antero (Colorado, USA) on Thursday. It looks like it didn't tumble very far (maybe just from the first switchback), but it is definitely a complete loss. He said that the people in the car were able to get out safely before it went over the edge. If you want to see the picture, go to the following web page. It looks like it might've clipped the pine tree on the left. http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/2006/antero/going_for_a_ride.php I was there on Sunday but didn't look down at this area (which is just above where we usually camp). Regards, Bob From tappingdancer at yahoo.com Wed Jun 21 00:32:43 2006 From: tappingdancer at yahoo.com (Suzan Watson) Date: Wed Jun 21 00:40:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Message-ID: <20060621073243.98846.qmail@web36610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> remove me from your mailing lists, any subscription I may have signed up for, or any promotions. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From SHMM at sussexonline.com Wed Jun 21 04:38:30 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Wed Jun 21 04:38:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hardness: Mohs scale and Rockwell scale? In-Reply-To: <4498C2DD.3070107@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001101c69527$39001e10$3f651540@D3JM7W21> Hi Don, Somewhere I've saved some notes about Rockwell and Vickers hardness, but I haven't turned them up yet. However, I did find a little info on the Rosival hardness of the Mohs minerals. I assume that grinding hardness on the Rosival scale is roughly equivalent to scratching hardness, so we may not be talking about apples and oranges by comparing the two scales. Trouble is, I can't remember the source (this list, perhaps?) . . . but in any event, here it is: The Rosival absolute hardness (grinding hardness) scale puts Talc at 0.09, Gypsum at 1.25, Calcite at 4.6, Fluorite at 5, Apatite at 6.5, Orthoclase at 37, Quartz at 120, Topaz at 175, Corundum at 1000, and Diamond at 140000. Silicon Carbide falls in the range of 2150 to 2950, and boron carbide is 2900 to 3900. Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 11:54 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] hardness: Mohs scale and Rockwell scale? Hi, I was wondering if there is any published data on comparing the Mohs hardness scale with the equivalent Rockwell hardnesses for the 10 values. Reason: I see used Rockwell hardness kits for sale, cheap, and I figured this would be cooler than carrying around a bunch of 9 rocks. Don _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From SHMM at sussexonline.com Wed Jun 21 04:55:15 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Wed Jun 21 04:55:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle In-Reply-To: <200606210710.k5L7Am2o032584@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000001c69529$8f9e1ea0$3f651540@D3JM7W21> Pete Modreski will probably remember a time when we drove up Mt. Antero and gazed at a vehicle far below. It was an open-top jeep with a roll bar and belonged to one of those outfits that takes people onto the back roads of Colorado. The day before our visit the driver had been descending the road and missed one of the lower hairpin turns (looks like the same one as shown on the photo you sent). As the left front tire slipped off the edge the driver gunned it instead of braking, and the jeep tumbled hundreds of feet down the slope. No survivors of that accident, if I remember correctly. That said, for a careful and patient driver the Mt. Antero road is not that bad. There is one stretch that is quite rocky, with inconveniently large and angular boulders, but for the rest it's your standard mountain track with hairpin turns. I've seen much steeper. And the drive is worth it -- wonderful views from the top, plus the prospect of breaking into a magnificent cavity with aquamarine crystals. Nearby on a lower slope is a mine (can't remember the name now, but it's on Mt. White . . .) that contains a little goshenite (colorless topaz), and that was exciting too. Hint for collectors: Keep your rear window up! One on of our trips we had Pete's vehicle filled with camping gear (probably beer, too). As we bounced up the road we noticed that we could see much better out the back window, and we thought that our equipment was just packing more tightly as it bounced up and down. But we had opened the window to get more fresh air, and the road for hundreds of feet below us was littered with sleeping bags and backpacks and such. Luckily we discovered this fairly soon (though not soon enough to save us from considerable embarrassment) and ran down the road to reclaim our equipment before others drove over it or claimed it for their own. Cheers- Earl -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Bob Loeffler Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:11 AM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle Hi all, One of my rockhounding buddies e-mailed me a picture of a vehicle that tumbled down Mt. Antero (Colorado, USA) on Thursday. From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 21 07:14:33 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Jun 21 07:14:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gilsum, NH rock swap References: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net><005b01c694d6$13a57300$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <6.2.1.2.0.20060620162210.040badc8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <000801c6953d$055fb5a0$7b824c0c@LarryRush> The annual Gilsum, NH Rock Show/Swap will be held this weekend, no rain date. This event has been held for about 40 years now, every June, with approx. 50 dealers and a handful of swappers. It is likely the largest outdoor Mineral Show on the East Coast. Just head to Keene, and then up to Gilsum, follow the signs! Gilsum is a very small New England town, with almost everyone in town pitching in to make this show a success. The locals provide site prep., food, drink, trash collection, security, and help of any kind. Several thousand visitors take advantage of their hospitality. The proceeds go to the Gilsum Recreation Committee, and are the primary source of funding for the town's Little League and community recreation activities. Come and enjoy the New Hampshire mountains, the great mineral atmosphere, good food and the friendly welcome of fellow rockhounds! Even enjoy the rain, which is so predictable for this show, we look forward to the challenges it brings with it! Larry Rush From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 21 07:55:31 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Jun 21 07:55:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle References: <000001c69529$8f9e1ea0$3f651540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <004d01c69542$be4c2800$7b824c0c@LarryRush> Earl; I don't mean this as a critical comment, but you raise a question. I have always assumed that goshenite was a colorless form of beryl, not topaz? And, while I ask, is goshenite a separate species with a distinct chemistry or is it a colorless variety? My Dana doesn't list it at all. Larry Rush ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Verbeek" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 7:55 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle > > Pete Modreski will probably remember a time when we drove up Mt. Antero > and > gazed at a vehicle far below. It was an open-top jeep with a roll bar and > belonged to one of those outfits that takes people onto the back roads of > Colorado. The day before our visit the driver had been descending the > road > and missed one of the lower hairpin turns (looks like the same one as > shown > on the photo you sent). As the left front tire slipped off the edge the > driver gunned it instead of braking, and the jeep tumbled hundreds of feet > down the slope. No survivors of that accident, if I remember correctly. > > That said, for a careful and patient driver the Mt. Antero road is not > that > bad. There is one stretch that is quite rocky, with inconveniently large > and angular boulders, but for the rest it's your standard mountain track > with hairpin turns. I've seen much steeper. And the drive is worth it -- > wonderful views from the top, plus the prospect of breaking into a > magnificent cavity with aquamarine crystals. Nearby on a lower slope is a > mine (can't remember the name now, but it's on Mt. White . . .) that > contains a little goshenite (colorless topaz), and that was exciting too. > > Hint for collectors: Keep your rear window up! One on of our trips we > had > Pete's vehicle filled with camping gear (probably beer, too). As we > bounced > up the road we noticed that we could see much better out the back window, > and we thought that our equipment was just packing more tightly as it > bounced up and down. But we had opened the window to get more fresh air, > and the road for hundreds of feet below us was littered with sleeping bags > and backpacks and such. Luckily we discovered this fairly soon (though > not > soon enough to save us from considerable embarrassment) and ran down the > road to reclaim our equipment before others drove over it or claimed it > for > their own. > > Cheers- Earl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Bob Loeffler > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:11 AM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle > > Hi all, > > One of my rockhounding buddies e-mailed me a picture of a vehicle that > tumbled down Mt. Antero (Colorado, USA) on Thursday. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Wed Jun 21 07:58:31 2006 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Wed Jun 21 07:58:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle References: <000001c69529$8f9e1ea0$3f651540@D3JM7W21> <004d01c69542$be4c2800$7b824c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <00c501c69543$2a276490$62b0fea9@TOSHIBA> Only a colorless var. AA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle > Earl; I don't mean this as a critical comment, but you raise a question. I > have always assumed that goshenite was a colorless form of beryl, not > topaz? And, while I ask, is goshenite a separate species with a distinct > chemistry or is it a colorless variety? My Dana doesn't list it at all. > > Larry Rush > > ================================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Earl Verbeek" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 7:55 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle > > >> >> Pete Modreski will probably remember a time when we drove up Mt. Antero >> and >> gazed at a vehicle far below. It was an open-top jeep with a roll bar >> and >> belonged to one of those outfits that takes people onto the back roads of >> Colorado. The day before our visit the driver had been descending the >> road >> and missed one of the lower hairpin turns (looks like the same one as >> shown >> on the photo you sent). As the left front tire slipped off the edge the >> driver gunned it instead of braking, and the jeep tumbled hundreds of >> feet >> down the slope. No survivors of that accident, if I remember correctly. >> >> That said, for a careful and patient driver the Mt. Antero road is not >> that >> bad. There is one stretch that is quite rocky, with inconveniently large >> and angular boulders, but for the rest it's your standard mountain track >> with hairpin turns. I've seen much steeper. And the drive is worth >> it -- >> wonderful views from the top, plus the prospect of breaking into a >> magnificent cavity with aquamarine crystals. Nearby on a lower slope is >> a >> mine (can't remember the name now, but it's on Mt. White . . .) that >> contains a little goshenite (colorless topaz), and that was exciting too. >> >> Hint for collectors: Keep your rear window up! One on of our trips we >> had >> Pete's vehicle filled with camping gear (probably beer, too). As we >> bounced >> up the road we noticed that we could see much better out the back window, >> and we thought that our equipment was just packing more tightly as it >> bounced up and down. But we had opened the window to get more fresh air, >> and the road for hundreds of feet below us was littered with sleeping >> bags >> and backpacks and such. Luckily we discovered this fairly soon (though >> not >> soon enough to save us from considerable embarrassment) and ran down the >> road to reclaim our equipment before others drove over it or claimed it >> for >> their own. >> >> Cheers- Earl >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Bob Loeffler >> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:11 AM >> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle >> >> Hi all, >> >> One of my rockhounding buddies e-mailed me a picture of a vehicle that >> tumbled down Mt. Antero (Colorado, USA) on Thursday. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Wed Jun 21 08:18:35 2006 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Wed Jun 21 08:18:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amelia amethyst In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606160926g1a5ac9d8uac970a5cdf3057ad@mail.gmail.com> References: <4492CED2.8020101@ncmail.net> <7aac8040606160926g1a5ac9d8uac970a5cdf3057ad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4499634B.5000108@ncmail.net> Drew, My specimen is from the Ligon mine/prospect. Kenny Drew wrote: > If you don't mind, that would be great! It wasn't the Ligon Prospect was > it? > > Drew From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Jun 21 08:19:37 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Jun 21 08:20:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle References: <000001c69529$8f9e1ea0$3f651540@D3JM7W21> <004d01c69542$be4c2800$7b824c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <2e0d01c69546$1bdc4e70$c0089444@remains> goshenite is colourless beryly, not topaz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle > Earl; I don't mean this as a critical comment, but you raise a question. I > have always assumed that goshenite was a colorless form of beryl, not > topaz? And, while I ask, is goshenite a separate species with a distinct > chemistry or is it a colorless variety? My Dana doesn't list it at all. > > Larry Rush > > ================================= > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Earl Verbeek" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 7:55 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle > > >> >> Pete Modreski will probably remember a time when we drove up Mt. Antero >> and >> gazed at a vehicle far below. It was an open-top jeep with a roll bar >> and >> belonged to one of those outfits that takes people onto the back roads of >> Colorado. The day before our visit the driver had been descending the >> road >> and missed one of the lower hairpin turns (looks like the same one as >> shown >> on the photo you sent). As the left front tire slipped off the edge the >> driver gunned it instead of braking, and the jeep tumbled hundreds of >> feet >> down the slope. No survivors of that accident, if I remember correctly. >> >> That said, for a careful and patient driver the Mt. Antero road is not >> that >> bad. There is one stretch that is quite rocky, with inconveniently large >> and angular boulders, but for the rest it's your standard mountain track >> with hairpin turns. I've seen much steeper. And the drive is worth >> it -- >> wonderful views from the top, plus the prospect of breaking into a >> magnificent cavity with aquamarine crystals. Nearby on a lower slope is >> a >> mine (can't remember the name now, but it's on Mt. White . . .) that >> contains a little goshenite (colorless topaz), and that was exciting too. >> >> Hint for collectors: Keep your rear window up! One on of our trips we >> had >> Pete's vehicle filled with camping gear (probably beer, too). As we >> bounced >> up the road we noticed that we could see much better out the back window, >> and we thought that our equipment was just packing more tightly as it >> bounced up and down. But we had opened the window to get more fresh air, >> and the road for hundreds of feet below us was littered with sleeping >> bags >> and backpacks and such. Luckily we discovered this fairly soon (though >> not >> soon enough to save us from considerable embarrassment) and ran down the >> road to reclaim our equipment before others drove over it or claimed it >> for >> their own. >> >> Cheers- Earl >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Bob Loeffler >> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:11 AM >> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle >> >> Hi all, >> >> One of my rockhounding buddies e-mailed me a picture of a vehicle that >> tumbled down Mt. Antero (Colorado, USA) on Thursday. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 21 08:24:15 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 21 08:24:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds In-Reply-To: <0DC14D12-00C3-11DB-B07B-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> References: <000501c694cb$e5e12f90$5cf8f604@TheBlackAdder> <0DC14D12-00C3-11DB-B07B-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <1noi92ho4009u7hbbv8tk1e9fb1jm06rdm@4ax.com> On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:12:48 -0300, Hans Durstling wrote: > >Hi All, > >It might be good at this point to step back a bit from saying Amazon is >doing this or that. You might have noticed that I said "apparently" :-) In fact, the indications so far are that this is not a systematic harvesting by a commercially-driven robot, but that John J in particular is being targeted. (I'm not an expert on bots and crawlers, but as a computer professional I have a pretty good idea of what's doable and the characteristics of it.) In fact, Amazon is apparently now involved in trying to track down the perpetrators. This is good, because they have the resources (and the server logs.) >A few list members this afternoon posted to say that >they'd done the Google search of their own names in connection with >Amazon and had come up negative. In addition to making sporadic but not >all that infrequent posts to this list I also post from time to time to >the "Orchid" list on gem and jewelry topics, plus I have the added >exposure of having published in a variety of magazines and other media. >Hence, I would have considered myself a somewhat plausible candidate >for name-harvesting. But my search in connection with Amazon also came >up negative. If the name harvesting for bogus reviews were indeed >systematic I would have expected a number of list members by now to >have said "I found my name used too." While the indications are still >developing, they are beginning to suggest more of a one-off. Mind you >they are still developing. > >Cheers all, >Hans Durstling >Moncton, Canada > -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dr00bert at gmail.com Wed Jun 21 08:28:43 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Wed Jun 21 08:28:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amelia amethyst In-Reply-To: <4499634B.5000108@ncmail.net> References: <4492CED2.8020101@ncmail.net> <7aac8040606160926g1a5ac9d8uac970a5cdf3057ad@mail.gmail.com> <4499634B.5000108@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040606210828i4f77a9c7y13355a3142ae0b35@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Kenny... that clears that up! Maybe I will make it to Amelia Co sometime! If WNC would quit luring me in! Drew On 6/21/06, Kenny Gay wrote: > > Drew, > My specimen is from the Ligon mine/prospect. > Kenny > > Drew wrote: > > > If you don't mind, that would be great! It wasn't the Ligon Prospect > was > > it? > > > > Drew > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Jun 21 08:29:24 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Jun 21 08:29:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hardness: Mohs scale and Rockwell scale? In-Reply-To: <4498C328.2030005@jeanniusdesigns.com> Message-ID: <20060621152924.55778.qmail@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You're correct that there is no correlation between Rockwell and Mohs hardness, but not for that reason. Rockwell isn't used just for metals, although that's the most common application. Rockwell and Mohs hardnesses are two different properties. Rockwell measures resistance to indentation, whereas Mohs measures resistance to scratching. There is a scale and test for resistance to scratching that gives a measured number, but I can't remember any more than that. It was over 30 years ago that I worked with the two different properties, when working with vinyl floor tile (vinyl asbestos, at that time). Jim Daly --- Jeanne Rhodes Moen wrote: > I'm not sure there is any correlation as the > Rockwell hardness, I > believe, is a measure of hardness for metals only. > It involves a point > which is pushed into the metal for a given amount of > time and the dent > measured....there are different metal scales, incl. > rockwell, vickers > and others....but I don't think they would work on > regular rocks since > most minerals are NOT metals. > > Jeanne > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com > > > Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com > > *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* > > *Jewelry Artists Guild: > http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > DonH wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I was wondering if there is any published data on > comparing the Mohs > > hardness scale with the equivalent Rockwell > hardnesses for the 10 values. > > > > Reason: I see used Rockwell hardness kits for > sale, cheap, and I > > figured this would be cooler than carrying around > a bunch of 9 rocks. > > > > Don > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Jun 21 08:35:10 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Jun 21 08:36:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds References: <000501c694cb$e5e12f90$5cf8f604@TheBlackAdder> <0DC14D12-00C3-11DB-B07B-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> <1noi92ho4009u7hbbv8tk1e9fb1jm06rdm@4ax.com> Message-ID: <2e4501c69548$480cf330$c0089444@remains> I really don't give a rat's ass about this stuff....and the only reason I am saying something now is because I THOUGHT you were all told by Kitty to take it offlist, and it was over....yet, here it is again. What's the point of having moderators if you guys don't do as they have instructed? Do as you're asked, or unsubscribe. And you're the FIRST one to complain about this kind of stuff, Balmer. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Balmer" < To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds > On Tue, 20 Jun 2006 22:12:48 -0300, Hans Durstling > wrote: > >> >>Hi All, >> >>It might be good at this point to step back a bit from saying Amazon is >>doing this or that. > > You might have noticed that I said "apparently" :-) > > In fact, the indications so far are that this is not a systematic > harvesting by a commercially-driven robot, but that John J in > particular is being targeted. (I'm not an expert on bots and crawlers, > but as a computer professional I have a pretty good idea of what's > doable and the characteristics of it.) > > In fact, Amazon is apparently now involved in trying to track down the > perpetrators. This is good, because they have the resources (and the > server logs.) > >>A few list members this afternoon posted to say that >>they'd done the Google search of their own names in connection with >>Amazon and had come up negative. In addition to making sporadic but not >>all that infrequent posts to this list I also post from time to time to >>the "Orchid" list on gem and jewelry topics, plus I have the added >>exposure of having published in a variety of magazines and other media. >>Hence, I would have considered myself a somewhat plausible candidate >>for name-harvesting. But my search in connection with Amazon also came >>up negative. If the name harvesting for bogus reviews were indeed >>systematic I would have expected a number of list members by now to >>have said "I found my name used too." While the indications are still >>developing, they are beginning to suggest more of a one-off. Mind you >>they are still developing. >> >>Cheers all, >>Hans Durstling >>Moncton, Canada >> > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Jun 21 08:38:56 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Jun 21 08:39:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hardness: Mohs scale and Rockwell scale? In-Reply-To: <20060621152924.55778.qmail@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4498C328.2030005@jeanniusdesigns.com> <20060621152924.55778.qmail@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There's an absolute hardness scale that corresponds to Mohs: BK On 6/21/06, Jim Daly wrote: > > You're correct that there is no correlation between > Rockwell and Mohs hardness, but not for that reason. > Rockwell isn't used just for metals, although that's > the most common application. > Rockwell and Mohs hardnesses are two different > properties. Rockwell measures resistance to > indentation, whereas Mohs measures resistance to > scratching. > There is a scale and test for resistance to scratching > that gives a measured number, but I can't remember any > more than that. It was over 30 years ago that I worked > with the two different properties, when working with > vinyl floor tile (vinyl asbestos, at that time). > Jim Daly > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 21 08:41:48 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 21 08:41:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hardness: Mohs scale and Rockwell scale? In-Reply-To: <001101c69527$39001e10$3f651540@D3JM7W21> References: <4498C2DD.3070107@verizon.net> <001101c69527$39001e10$3f651540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 07:38:30 -0400, "Earl Verbeek" wrote: > >Hi Don, > >Somewhere I've saved some notes about Rockwell and Vickers hardness, but I >haven't turned them up yet. However, I did find a little info on the >Rosival hardness of the Mohs minerals. I assume that grinding hardness on >the Rosival scale is roughly equivalent to scratching hardness, so we may >not be talking about apples and oranges by comparing the two scales. >Trouble is, I can't remember the source (this list, perhaps?) . . . but in >any event, here it is: > >The Rosival absolute hardness (grinding hardness) scale puts Talc at 0.09, >Gypsum at 1.25, Calcite at 4.6, Fluorite at 5, Apatite at 6.5, Orthoclase at >37, Quartz at 120, Topaz at 175, Corundum at 1000, and Diamond at 140000. >Silicon Carbide falls in the range of 2150 to 2950, and boron carbide is >2900 to 3900. Thank you. I had never heard of this measure. It seems particularly appropriate for lapidary, since it's based on the breakdown of a polishing agent. Indentation testing (Rockwell, Vickers, Knoop) is over too small an area to be meaningful for many minerals, where the hardness varies from one spot to another, or even depends on direction. An abrasive test seems just the thing. > > Cheers- Earl >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH >Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 11:54 PM >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >Subject: [Rockhounds] hardness: Mohs scale and Rockwell scale? > > >Hi, > >I was wondering if there is any published data on comparing the Mohs >hardness scale with the equivalent Rockwell hardnesses for the 10 values. > >Reason: I see used Rockwell hardness kits for sale, cheap, and I figured >this would be cooler than carrying around a bunch of 9 rocks. > >Don > -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Wed Jun 21 09:06:47 2006 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Wed Jun 21 09:06:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds: reasonable? Message-ID: Hi all, Although this is my first posting to this group, I assume some of you know my name and work from other listservs (faceters digest, usfgfaceterslist) and my continuing series of articles in the Lapidary Journal. I've been reading Al and Hans' postings, the past day or so, and am at least as concerned about such infringements as they are, especially given the amount of writing I do. At the same time, I have to stop and wonder how well-founded those concerns are, before getting too excited about them. Perhaps it's just that I was lucky enough to dodge the "Amazon.com" bullet that's the cornerstone of this discussion, or that they simply haven't gotten around to tapping my name yet, but, given the number of "formal" articles I've written -- that is, pieces I've specifically written for print publication and distribution -- and both the hundreds of postings I've done to online forums, such as this, and the number of times I've been quoted in others' books and articles, I went to the Amazon site both wary of these concerns and half expecting to see fraudulent quotations with my name attached, but found not a single reference to myself, anywhere on their site. As such, a wide range of "deductive reasoning"-based questions immediately springs to mind: 1) Does anyone know how prevalent this practice really is? 2) Is this truly an institutionalized practice at Amazon, or could it be the result of an accident that occurred only once or twice (in much the same way that many of us have erroneously cross-referenced things in our discussions, from time to time -- like attributing a quote to Shakespeare, only to learn, years later, that it came from Sir Isaac Newton, instead)? 2) Upon how much incontrovertible evidence are these concerns based? 3) If there's evidence that a quote is attributed to a given name, and a person who goes by that name swears that he or she did not say or write the words in question, is it even remotely possible that someone _else_ with that name could have? (Obviously, if your name is Melvin Ignacius Kadiddleboink, the chances of this occurring would be significantly slimmer than if it were Jack Johnson, but still, I think the question bears considering.) If this flavor of plagiarism really is going on on any kind of widespread basis, then I agree wholeheartedly that whistles need to be blown, and loudly so. But if it's a matter of one or two odd incidences across the hundreds of thousands -- if not millions, or more -- listings to be found on their site, then I think it makes far more sense to email Amazon.com's customer service department, directly, with whatever concern(s) are at hand (and Cc yourself on this, so you have a dated, timed record of the complaint), then give them the opportunity to correct it/them. If you neither receive an itemized response from them (autoresponders don't count) nor see any evidence of change, upon revisiting the site 30, 60, or 90 days later, _then_ I'd agree it's time to start dialing the numbers of your local newscrew's consumer watchdog/advocate. But I think that doing so before those other questions have been asked, or steps have been taken, serves only to attach unwelcome labels to ourselves and, of course, those we're accusing. So, has anyone among us yet applied any of these controls? All the best, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Wed Jun 21 09:22:21 2006 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Wed Jun 21 09:22:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New England mines, quarries & fee digging sites? Message-ID: Hi all, After more years of cutting gems than I'd care to think about, it's occurred to me just how much fun I used to have digging for them, as a kid, and how much I miss that sense of outdoor adventure. I mentioned this to a buddy of mine, last night, and he suggested we both get out of the office for a day or so, leave the wives and kids behind, and go get some dirt under our nails. The only problem is, all of my childhood mining getaways are now "conveniently located" underneath residential communities, shopping malls or garbage dumps! As such, I'm wondering if any of you can refer me/us to any decent collecting sites in New England -- especially in Massachusetts, New Hampshire or southern Maine -- where a couple of out-of-shape guys in their late 40's could spend a day digging, scratching and/or sifting for crystals. Since I also cut gems for a living, it'd be all the nicer if there was a chance of finding some gemmy roughs I could then cut into pieces Gary & I could either wear, ourselves, or present to our wives and kids as souvenirs of our time away. Do any such sites still exist (and are they publicly accessible)? Many thanks, in advance, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Jun 21 09:25:31 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Jun 21 09:29:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] NO MORE Amazon vs. Rockhounds References: Message-ID: <005b01c6954f$5bf27850$0200a8c0@warren> OK, guys, this is your second warning; the first was 14 hours ago. If and when there is more information one of the admins will let the list know. Until then this topic is done, please. Next time, we're going to have to turn on moderation. Julie . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Turet" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:06 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Amazon vs. Rockhounds: reasonable? > Hi all, > From SHMM at sussexonline.com Wed Jun 21 10:06:40 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Wed Jun 21 10:07:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle In-Reply-To: <004d01c69542$be4c2800$7b824c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <000001c69555$16c11830$3f651540@D3JM7W21> Larry, you are correct. This is what happens when I write something before my second cup of coffee. This is also why I never call myself a mineralogist (I'm a structural geologist, which is WAY off), but only a wannabe. So yes: goshenite is beryl and has nothing to do with topaz. My apologies to all you out there -- on most days I know perfectly well what goshenite is, but today wasn't one of them. On second thought my confusion probably doesn't stem from a lack of coffee, but from insufficient consumption of beer last night. Hmmm, in just two hours my countrymen will be playing in the World Cup -- a splendid opportunity to refresh my so-called brain. Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rush Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 10:56 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle Earl; I don't mean this as a critical comment, but you raise a question. I have always assumed that goshenite was a colorless form of beryl, not topaz? And, while I ask, is goshenite a separate species with a distinct chemistry or is it a colorless variety? My Dana doesn't list it at all. Larry Rush ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Verbeek" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 7:55 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle > > Pete Modreski will probably remember a time when we drove up Mt. Antero > and > gazed at a vehicle far below. It was an open-top jeep with a roll bar and > belonged to one of those outfits that takes people onto the back roads of > Colorado. The day before our visit the driver had been descending the > road > and missed one of the lower hairpin turns (looks like the same one as > shown > on the photo you sent). As the left front tire slipped off the edge the > driver gunned it instead of braking, and the jeep tumbled hundreds of feet > down the slope. No survivors of that accident, if I remember correctly. > > That said, for a careful and patient driver the Mt. Antero road is not > that > bad. There is one stretch that is quite rocky, with inconveniently large > and angular boulders, but for the rest it's your standard mountain track > with hairpin turns. I've seen much steeper. And the drive is worth it -- > wonderful views from the top, plus the prospect of breaking into a > magnificent cavity with aquamarine crystals. Nearby on a lower slope is a > mine (can't remember the name now, but it's on Mt. White . . .) that > contains a little goshenite (colorless topaz), and that was exciting too. > > Hint for collectors: Keep your rear window up! One on of our trips we > had > Pete's vehicle filled with camping gear (probably beer, too). As we > bounced > up the road we noticed that we could see much better out the back window, > and we thought that our equipment was just packing more tightly as it > bounced up and down. But we had opened the window to get more fresh air, > and the road for hundreds of feet below us was littered with sleeping bags > and backpacks and such. Luckily we discovered this fairly soon (though > not > soon enough to save us from considerable embarrassment) and ran down the > road to reclaim our equipment before others drove over it or claimed it > for > their own. > > Cheers- Earl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Bob Loeffler > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:11 AM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle > > Hi all, > > One of my rockhounding buddies e-mailed me a picture of a vehicle that > tumbled down Mt. Antero (Colorado, USA) on Thursday. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Jun 21 10:27:45 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Jun 21 10:27:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New England mines, quarries & fee digging sites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Doug, The Maine Geological Survey has an online version of their very nice collecting guidebook at http://www.maine.gov/doc/nrimc/mgs/explore/minerals/guide/guide.htm as with any such reference make sure that you verify that the landowner is agreeable to your collecting on their property. My other advice is to join a local mineral club that has an active field trip program. I coordinate field trips for the Boston Mineral Club and we have several trips scheduled for this summer. You can learn about our club at www.bostonmineralclub.org Our summer fieldtrips include a) Roxbury, CT for almandine garnet and kyanite b) Manhan River Lead Mine (Mass) for various lead minerals (wulfenite, pyromorphite, etc) c) gold panning in NH, and d) a CT pegmatite locality There are several other Massachusetts clubs with active fieldtrip programs as well. These include the North Shore Rock and Mineral Club (NSRMC), the Worcester Mineral Club, and the Shouth Shore Mineral Club. I'm sure that you can get links to these by Googling their names. Although New England is blessed with a good variety of collecting sites, locations featuring facetable material are few and far between and tend to be under claim by specimen mining operations. Deer Hill in Maine might be your best bet in this regard. Good luck, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 6/21/06, Douglas Turet wrote: > > Hi all, > > After more years of cutting gems than I'd care to think about, it's > occurred to me just how much fun I used to have digging for them, as a > kid, > and how much I miss that sense of outdoor adventure. I mentioned this to a > buddy of mine, last night, and he suggested we both get out of the office > for a day or so, leave the wives and kids behind, and go get some dirt > under > our nails. The only problem is, all of my childhood mining getaways are > now > "conveniently located" underneath residential communities, shopping malls > or > garbage dumps! > As such, I'm wondering if any of you can refer me/us to any decent > collecting sites in New England -- especially in Massachusetts, New > Hampshire or southern Maine -- where a couple of out-of-shape guys in > their > late 40's could spend a day digging, scratching and/or sifting for > crystals. > Since I also cut gems for a living, it'd be all the nicer if there was a > chance of finding some gemmy roughs I could then cut into pieces Gary & I > could either wear, ourselves, or present to our wives and kids as > souvenirs > of our time away. Do any such sites still exist (and are they publicly > accessible)? > > Many thanks, in advance, > Doug > > Douglas Turet, GJ > Turet Design, LLC > P. O. Box 242 > Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. > Tel. (508) 586-5690 > Fax: (508) 586-5677 > anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 21 10:46:21 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 21 10:46:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New England mines, quarries & fee digging sites? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:22:21 -0400, "Douglas Turet" wrote: >Hi all, > > After more years of cutting gems than I'd care to think about, it's >occurred to me just how much fun I used to have digging for them, as a kid, >and how much I miss that sense of outdoor adventure. I mentioned this to a >buddy of mine, last night, and he suggested we both get out of the office >for a day or so, leave the wives and kids behind, and go get some dirt under >our nails. The only problem is, all of my childhood mining getaways are now >"conveniently located" underneath residential communities, shopping malls or >garbage dumps! > As such, I'm wondering if any of you can refer me/us to any decent >collecting sites in New England -- especially in Massachusetts, New >Hampshire or southern Maine -- where a couple of out-of-shape guys in their >late 40's could spend a day digging, scratching and/or sifting for crystals. Hi, Doug. Nice to see you here. When I lived in Rochester, NY, I knew Vandall King, who had written the best book on Maine minerals and collecting that I've ever seen. I don't have contact information any more, but if you can find him, I'm sure he'd be helpful. One way might be to contact Chuck Hiler, Chillflou1@aol.com who's listed as the contact for the Mineral section of the Rochester Academy of Science. I expect that Van is still active in that organization. >Since I also cut gems for a living, it'd be all the nicer if there was a >chance of finding some gemmy roughs I could then cut into pieces Heh. I've seen some of the stuff you've "cut into pieces" :-) For anybody on the list that hasn't, check out http://www.turetdesign.com/ >Gary & I >could either wear, ourselves, or present to our wives and kids as souvenirs >of our time away. Do any such sites still exist (and are they publicly >accessible)? > -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From albalmer at att.net Wed Jun 21 11:21:14 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Jun 21 11:21:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New England mines, quarries & fee digging sites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:27:45 -0400, "Nathan Martin" wrote: >Doug, > >The Maine Geological Survey has an online version of their very nice >collecting guidebook at >http://www.maine.gov/doc/nrimc/mgs/explore/minerals/guide/guide.htm Very nice. Thank you. It's great to have references like this on line. I suppose that V. T. King is Vandall? >as with any such reference make sure that you verify that the landowner is >agreeable to your collecting on their property. > >My other advice is to join a local mineral club that has an active field >trip program. I coordinate field trips for the Boston Mineral Club and we >have several trips scheduled for this summer. You can learn about our club >at www.bostonmineralclub.org >Our summer fieldtrips include >a) Roxbury, CT for almandine garnet and kyanite >b) Manhan River Lead Mine (Mass) for various lead minerals (wulfenite, >pyromorphite, etc) >c) gold panning in NH, and >d) a CT pegmatite locality > >There are several other Massachusetts clubs with active fieldtrip programs >as well. These include the North Shore Rock and Mineral Club (NSRMC), the >Worcester Mineral Club, and the Shouth Shore Mineral Club. I'm sure that >you can get links to these by Googling their names. > >Although New England is blessed with a good variety of collecting sites, >locations featuring facetable material are few and far between and tend to >be under claim by specimen mining operations. Deer Hill in Maine might be >your best bet in this regard. > >Good luck, >Nate Martin >Lexington, MA > > >On 6/21/06, Douglas Turet wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> After more years of cutting gems than I'd care to think about, it's >> occurred to me just how much fun I used to have digging for them, as a >> kid, >> and how much I miss that sense of outdoor adventure. I mentioned this to a >> buddy of mine, last night, and he suggested we both get out of the office >> for a day or so, leave the wives and kids behind, and go get some dirt >> under >> our nails. The only problem is, all of my childhood mining getaways are >> now >> "conveniently located" underneath residential communities, shopping malls >> or >> garbage dumps! >> As such, I'm wondering if any of you can refer me/us to any decent >> collecting sites in New England -- especially in Massachusetts, New >> Hampshire or southern Maine -- where a couple of out-of-shape guys in >> their >> late 40's could spend a day digging, scratching and/or sifting for >> crystals. >> Since I also cut gems for a living, it'd be all the nicer if there was a >> chance of finding some gemmy roughs I could then cut into pieces Gary & I >> could either wear, ourselves, or present to our wives and kids as >> souvenirs >> of our time away. Do any such sites still exist (and are they publicly >> accessible)? >> >> Many thanks, in advance, >> Doug >> >> Douglas Turet, GJ >> Turet Design, LLC >> P. O. Box 242 >> Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. >> Tel. (508) 586-5690 >> Fax: (508) 586-5677 >> anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Jun 21 12:44:52 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Jun 21 12:44:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New England mines, quarries & fee digging sites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 6/21/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:27:45 -0400, "Nathan Martin" > wrote: > > >Doug, > > > >The Maine Geological Survey has an online version of their very nice > >collecting guidebook at > >http://www.maine.gov/doc/nrimc/mgs/explore/minerals/guide/guide.htm > > Very nice. Thank you. It's great to have references like this on line. > I suppose that V. T. King is Vandall? Al, That is correct. Vandall King is credited as a co-author on this reference. However, I do not know which specific portions of the document he wrote. Nate Martin >as with any such reference make sure that you verify that the landowner is > >agreeable to your collecting on their property. > > > >My other advice is to join a local mineral club that has an active field > >trip program. I coordinate field trips for the Boston Mineral Club and > we > >have several trips scheduled for this summer. You can learn about our > club > >at www.bostonmineralclub.org > >Our summer fieldtrips include > >a) Roxbury, CT for almandine garnet and kyanite > >b) Manhan River Lead Mine (Mass) for various lead minerals (wulfenite, > >pyromorphite, etc) > >c) gold panning in NH, and > >d) a CT pegmatite locality > > > >There are several other Massachusetts clubs with active fieldtrip > programs > >as well. These include the North Shore Rock and Mineral Club (NSRMC), > the > >Worcester Mineral Club, and the Shouth Shore Mineral Club. I'm sure that > >you can get links to these by Googling their names. > > > >Although New England is blessed with a good variety of collecting sites, > >locations featuring facetable material are few and far between and tend > to > >be under claim by specimen mining operations. Deer Hill in Maine might > be > >your best bet in this regard. > > > >Good luck, > >Nate Martin > >Lexington, MA > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Jun 21 13:52:21 2006 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Jun 21 13:52:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] About mineral collecting References: <200606211707.k5LH7cIl006070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <009401c69574$97e74960$6b01a8c0@rock3> Our growth as collectors. As we grow as collectors we become partialized, as I call it, to particular mineral species or localities. Perhaps early in our lives, as collectors, we worked at a borax mine that produced fine specimens of borate minerals and came to love them. Or perhaps we attended a mineral show and became hypnotized by a display case full of fabulous silver specimens that was displayed by an old collector. Or we were out field collecting with a friend and discovered a fabulous pocket of Meyerhofferite pseudomorphs after Inyoite. Because of these kinds of life experiences we become partialized, often without realizing it, to certain kinds of specimens and because of this will always have a soft spot in our hearts for them. One of the hard things you do when you become a mineral dealer is to learn that the partialities you have developed are, in many instances, not reflected by similar ones in your clients. In learning this lesson the first reaction you have is irritation that others, because of their ignorance, do not appreciate the kinds of specimens you love and you feel that if you can just educate them sufficiently that they will love the kinds of specimens you do. These are rocky fields to till and eventually you come to accept, at least to some degree, that the world is as it is, and not what you want it to be. After many years you look back at some of your early attitudes and wonder where in the world they came from and to a great extent find that your personal tastes have indeed been shaped by the marketplace after all. However as Mark Twain remarked "It is better to be a young June bug than an old bird of paradise." Over the years your value system will change. I think every collector has had the experience of early on visiting a collection and thinking that it was a great collection. Then in ten or fifteen years going back to look at the collection again and wondering what happened to all the good specimens. In most cases the specimens did not change, only your perception of them. Th is sort of phenomenon strikes particularly hard at field collectors. When you break into a good pocket of crystals and collect them, they look like the finest things in the world. Usually however when you get them home, unwrap them, clean, trim and label them they look smaller and not nearly as good as they did when you took them out of the ground. Then after you take them to a mineral show, where they have to compete with all the other specimens offered for sale, they look even less remarkable. If you find the above interesting you might be interested in reading the rest of the article. About 35 pages worth. http://www.jeweltunnel.com/About%20Mineral%20Collecting.doc If you do read it and have suggestions and or corrections, they would be welcome. Rock Currier From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Jun 21 14:09:22 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Jun 21 14:07:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] About mineral collecting In-Reply-To: <009401c69574$97e74960$6b01a8c0@rock3> References: <200606211707.k5LH7cIl006070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <009401c69574$97e74960$6b01a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <4499B582.5050901@verizon.net> Some good thoughts there; I don't necessarily agree with your point of view but then again, it's an expression of your thoughts and experiences so my comments would simply be subjective. However, given the controversy, scandal, snickering, derision, etc., surrounding the acquisition and eventual disposal of the Freilich collection, I would disrecommend your inclusion of it in the way you've discussed it. If anything, the whole Freilich affair was probably an anomaly. Don H From amc358 at rcn.com Wed Jun 21 18:02:19 2006 From: amc358 at rcn.com (Albert McCann) Date: Wed Jun 21 18:02:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New England mines, quarries & fee digging sites? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00de01c69597$83283b10$0a01a8c0@osnerd> > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Douglas Turet > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:22 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] New England mines, quarries & fee digging sites? > > Hi all, > > As such, I'm wondering if any of you can refer me/us to > any decent collecting sites in New England -- especially in > Massachusetts, New Hampshire or southern Maine -- where a > couple of out-of-shape guys in their late 40's could spend a > day digging, scratching and/or sifting for crystals. Doug, Poke around this site: From amc358 at rcn.com Wed Jun 21 18:15:31 2006 From: amc358 at rcn.com (Albert McCann) Date: Wed Jun 21 18:15:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New England mines, quarries & fee digging sites? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00df01c69599$5b2bf460$0a01a8c0@osnerd> > -----Original Message----- > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:22 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] New England mines, quarries & fee digging sites? > > As such, I'm wondering if any of you can refer me/us to > any decent collecting sites in New England -- especially in > Massachusetts, New Hampshire or southern Maine -- where a > couple of out-of-shape guys in their late 40's could spend a > day digging, scratching and/or sifting for crystals. Doug, Poke around this site: http://members.aol.com/Flagman55/MaineMineralCollecting.html Call Perham's, who are in West Paris, ME: http://homepage.mac.com/rasprague/PegShop/perham.html And see if they still sell "A Collector's Guide to Maine Mineral Localities" ($12.00 a few years ago). Perham's also owns several local quarries, and allows free collecting. Al From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Jun 21 18:46:32 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Jun 21 18:46:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle References: <200606210710.k5L7Am2o032584@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <007001c6959d$b38108e0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I looked at the photo and don't get a feel for how steep the drop-off is. Having driven in Colorado (especially in the San Juans), I know that the drop-offs can really drop. By the way, the last few postings about "Mt. Antero claims a vehicle" dealt with goshenite. Would you please, please change to subject title when you change the topic in the text? Please? Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:10 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle > Hi all, > > One of my rockhounding buddies e-mailed me a picture of a vehicle that > tumbled down Mt. Antero (Colorado, USA) on Thursday. It looks like it > didn't tumble very far (maybe just from the first switchback), but it is > definitely a complete loss. He said that the people in the car were able to > get out safely before it went over the edge. If you want to see the > picture, go to the following web page. It looks like it might've clipped > the pine tree on the left. > > http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/2006/antero/going_for_a_ride.php > > I was there on Sunday but didn't look down at this area (which is just above > where we usually camp). > > Regards, > > Bob > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Wed Jun 21 18:55:13 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Wed Jun 21 18:55:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] About mineral collecting References: <200606211707.k5LH7cIl006070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <009401c69574$97e74960$6b01a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <009301c6959e$e6cdb490$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> I found it quite interesting. Found a few typos, and if you want to publish it on the web you should make each "chapter" a separate page hyperlinked from a table of contents instead of one 35 page long document. If you can't do create the html version I can do it for you if you like. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:52 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] About mineral collecting > Our growth as collectors. As we grow as collectors we become partialized, > as > I call it, to particular mineral species or localities. Perhaps early in > our > lives, as collectors, we worked at a borax mine that produced fine > specimens > of borate minerals and came to love them. Or perhaps we attended a mineral >> > If you find the above interesting you might be interested in reading the > rest of the article. About 35 pages worth. > http://www.jeweltunnel.com/About%20Mineral%20Collecting.doc > > If you do read it and have suggestions and or corrections, they would be > welcome. > > Rock Currier > From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Jun 21 19:16:25 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Jun 21 19:16:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New England mines, quarries & fee digging sites? In-Reply-To: <00df01c69599$5b2bf460$0a01a8c0@osnerd> References: <00df01c69599$5b2bf460$0a01a8c0@osnerd> Message-ID: Al and Doug, Based on my conversations with Perham's last week, the following quarries are currently available to collectors: Harvard Quarry Tamminen Quarry Waisanen Quarry all three are in Greenwood, ME We hiked up to the Harvard Quarry last Saturday and the trail is in very poor shape with numerous swampy areas. Look for red plastic strips tied to branches to blaze the trail (sort of). As always the trail leads to the bottom of the dump and the slope up the dump to the quarry is steep and treacherous. In contrast the hike into the Tamminen and Waisanen Quarries is short and relatively easy. A Collector's Guide to Maine Mineral Localities is out of print but is available online (as I previously indicated) at http://www.maine.gov/doc/nrimc/mgs/explore/minerals/guide/guide.htm best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 6/21/06, Albert McCann wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:22 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: [Rockhounds] New England mines, quarries & fee digging sites? > > > > As such, I'm wondering if any of you can refer me/us to > > any decent collecting sites in New England -- especially in > > Massachusetts, New Hampshire or southern Maine -- where a > > couple of out-of-shape guys in their late 40's could spend a > > day digging, scratching and/or sifting for crystals. > > > Doug, > > Poke around this site: > > http://members.aol.com/Flagman55/MaineMineralCollecting.html > > > Call Perham's, who are in West Paris, ME: > > http://homepage.mac.com/rasprague/PegShop/perham.html > > And see if they still sell "A Collector's Guide to Maine Mineral > Localities" > ($12.00 a few years ago). Perham's also owns several local quarries, and > allows free collecting. > > Al > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bombastus at worldnet.att.net Wed Jun 21 20:59:44 2006 From: bombastus at worldnet.att.net (Homer Eshbaugh) Date: Wed Jun 21 20:59:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gilsum, NH rock swap References: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net><005b01c694d6$13a57300$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><6.2.1.2.0.20060620162210.040badc8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <000801c6953d$055fb5a0$7b824c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <000d01c695b0$4c5e77c0$d698490c@HHEPC> Sounds like a really fun show. You've got to admire a "rain or shine" policy for an outdoor show - and you still get 50 dealers! I'm sold! How about a few more details, such as - * dates? * time? * admission and/or parking fees? * a street address or intersection to help out my mapping software? * contact info? * relevant web site? Appreciate it. Homer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:14 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Gilsum, NH rock swap > The annual Gilsum, NH Rock Show/Swap will be held this weekend, no rain > date. > > This event has been held for about 40 years now, every June, with approx. > 50 dealers and a handful of swappers. It is likely the largest outdoor > Mineral Show on the East Coast. > Just head to Keene, and then up to Gilsum, follow the signs! > > Gilsum is a very small New England town, with almost everyone in town > pitching in to make this show a success. The locals provide site prep., > food, drink, trash collection, security, and help of any kind. Several > thousand visitors take advantage of their hospitality. The proceeds go to > the Gilsum Recreation Committee, and are the primary source of funding for > the town's Little League and community recreation activities. > > Come and enjoy the New Hampshire mountains, the great mineral atmosphere, > good food and the friendly welcome of fellow rockhounds! Even enjoy the > rain, which is so predictable for this show, we look forward to the > challenges it brings with it! > > Larry Rush > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Wed Jun 21 21:42:17 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Jun 21 21:42:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] List Administration (was) Amazon vs. Rockhounds: reasonable? Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060621182307.040fa858@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Michael and everyone: For anyone who feels frustrated with the way this list is administered, it is important to remember that it is done by VOLUNTEERS! Pardon the shouting, but we Admin Team members have families, jobs, and are busy with other worthwhile activities. We are not paid. We do this because we love our hobby. Believe me, there are times when having to step in and stop personal attacks for the umpteenth time makes us wish we'd never volunteered at all!! Kitty Michael Schmidt wrote: > > is there any moderation to this list whatsoever? or can people simply just > ignore whatever you guys tell them, and post whatever they like? Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > >So the answers to your two questions are 'yes', and 'yes'. . .but only >for a while. From guertiew at aol.com Thu Jun 22 04:25:34 2006 From: guertiew at aol.com (guertiew@aol.com) Date: Thu Jun 22 04:25:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amelia amethyst In-Reply-To: <7aac8040606210828i4f77a9c7y13355a3142ae0b35@mail.gmail.com> References: <4492CED2.8020101@ncmail.net> <7aac8040606160926g1a5ac9d8uac970a5cdf3057ad@mail.gmail.com> <4499634B.5000108@ncmail.net> <7aac8040606210828i4f77a9c7y13355a3142ae0b35@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C86405B6BD6195-1460-123@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Sorry, guys, amethyst is not found at the "Ligon" prospects in Amelia Co. These are strictly pegmatites, not the sort of thing where amethyst is found. One of the Ligon prospects had fine chunks of nearly colorless quartz that some call "rose" quartz due to dispersed TiO2. Perhaps that's what you have, if it's from Ligon at all. Earl -----Original Message----- From: Drew To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:28:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Amelia amethyst Thanks Kenny... that clears that up! Maybe I will make it to Amelia Co sometime! If WNC would quit luring me in! Drew On 6/21/06, Kenny Gay wrote: > > Drew, > My specimen is from the Ligon mine/prospect. > Kenny > > Drew wrote: > > > If you don't mind, that would be great! It wasn't the Ligon Prospect > was > > it? > > > > Drew > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Thu Jun 22 06:43:25 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Jun 22 06:43:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gilsum, NH rock swap References: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net><005b01c694d6$13a57300$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><6.2.1.2.0.20060620162210.040badc8@mail.hawaiiantel.net><000801c6953d$055fb5a0$7b824c0c@LarryRush> <000d01c695b0$4c5e77c0$d698490c@HHEPC> Message-ID: <000801c69601$d69d3b00$e5844c0c@LarryRush> Homer (and anyone else interested): The show is this weekend, June 24-25 (no rain date), hours are from 9-5 both days. The locality is Gilsum, NH, about 5 miles No. of Keene. You will see signs almost anywhere in the area. The field is the recreation field in back of the Gilsum School (This is a VERY small town, only 2 streets, you won't miss the school!) Admission, including parking, is with a donation, I think they suggest $3, but it may be $5. There is no web site, but the contact is Rob Mitchell (rmitchell60@adelphia.net) Stop by my booth (canopy, tent, mud-hole???) and say Hello! Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: "Homer Eshbaugh" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 11:59 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Gilsum, NH rock swap > Sounds like a really fun show. You've got to admire a "rain or shine" > policy for an outdoor show - and you still get 50 dealers! I'm sold! > > How about a few more details, such as - > * dates? > * time? > * admission and/or parking fees? > * a street address or intersection to help out my mapping software? > * contact info? > * relevant web site? > > Appreciate it. > > Homer > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Rush" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:14 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Gilsum, NH rock swap > > >> The annual Gilsum, NH Rock Show/Swap will be held this weekend, no rain >> date. >> >> This event has been held for about 40 years now, every June, with approx. >> 50 dealers and a handful of swappers. It is likely the largest outdoor >> Mineral Show on the East Coast. >> Just head to Keene, and then up to Gilsum, follow the signs! >> >> Gilsum is a very small New England town, with almost everyone in town >> pitching in to make this show a success. The locals provide site prep., >> food, drink, trash collection, security, and help of any kind. Several >> thousand visitors take advantage of their hospitality. The proceeds go to >> the Gilsum Recreation Committee, and are the primary source of funding >> for the town's Little League and community recreation activities. >> >> Come and enjoy the New Hampshire mountains, the great mineral atmosphere, >> good food and the friendly welcome of fellow rockhounds! Even enjoy the >> rain, which is so predictable for this show, we look forward to the >> challenges it brings with it! >> >> Larry Rush >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From bombastus at worldnet.att.net Thu Jun 22 07:15:19 2006 From: bombastus at worldnet.att.net (Homer Eshbaugh) Date: Thu Jun 22 07:15:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gilsum, NH rock swap References: <318d3f92d6018873d9bbcaf3be68c324@comcast.net><005b01c694d6$13a57300$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A><6.2.1.2.0.20060620162210.040badc8@mail.hawaiiantel.net><000801c6953d$055fb5a0$7b824c0c@LarryRush><000d01c695b0$4c5e77c0$d698490c@HHEPC> <000801c69601$d69d3b00$e5844c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <000601c69606$4b7c10f0$5b98490c@HHEPC> Larry, Thanks for the info. We live near Milwaukee, WI, so it's too short a notice to get there this year. However, next year... We'll look for your mudhole. Homer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Gilsum, NH rock swap > Homer (and anyone else interested): > > The show is this weekend, June 24-25 (no rain date), hours are from 9-5 > both days. > > The locality is Gilsum, NH, about 5 miles No. of Keene. You will see signs > almost anywhere in the area. The field is the recreation field in back of > the Gilsum School (This is a VERY small town, only 2 streets, you won't > miss the school!) > > Admission, including parking, is with a donation, I think they suggest > $3, but it may be $5. > > There is no web site, but the contact is Rob Mitchell > (rmitchell60@adelphia.net) > > Stop by my booth (canopy, tent, mud-hole???) and say Hello! > > Larry Rush > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Homer Eshbaugh" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 11:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Gilsum, NH rock swap > > >> Sounds like a really fun show. You've got to admire a "rain or shine" >> policy for an outdoor show - and you still get 50 dealers! I'm sold! >> >> How about a few more details, such as - >> * dates? >> * time? >> * admission and/or parking fees? >> * a street address or intersection to help out my mapping software? >> * contact info? >> * relevant web site? >> >> Appreciate it. >> >> Homer >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lawrence Rush" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:14 AM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Gilsum, NH rock swap >> >> >>> The annual Gilsum, NH Rock Show/Swap will be held this weekend, no rain >>> date. >>> >>> This event has been held for about 40 years now, every June, with >>> approx. 50 dealers and a handful of swappers. It is likely the largest >>> outdoor Mineral Show on the East Coast. >>> Just head to Keene, and then up to Gilsum, follow the signs! >>> >>> Gilsum is a very small New England town, with almost everyone in town >>> pitching in to make this show a success. The locals provide site prep., >>> food, drink, trash collection, security, and help of any kind. Several >>> thousand visitors take advantage of their hospitality. The proceeds go >>> to the Gilsum Recreation Committee, and are the primary source of >>> funding for the town's Little League and community recreation >>> activities. >>> >>> Come and enjoy the New Hampshire mountains, the great mineral >>> atmosphere, good food and the friendly welcome of fellow rockhounds! >>> Even enjoy the rain, which is so predictable for this show, we look >>> forward to the challenges it brings with it! >>> >>> Larry Rush >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From efkern at earthlink.net Thu Jun 22 07:25:44 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Thu Jun 22 07:25:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The U.K. Geological Society July 2006 Online Bookshop Sale Message-ID: <001401c69607$c0606c80$cff9f604@TheBlackAdder> ************************************************* The Geological Society July 2006 Online Bookshop ************************************************* From: Geological Society Publishing House Geological Society Online Bookshop Sale July 2006 special offers - all publications reduced to ?25.00 Dear Colleague The next Geological Society Online Bookshop sale starts AM Friday 7th July 2006, when we will be selling a range of Geological Society titles for ?25.00 each. These reductions offer you savings of up to ?125.00 on list prices. A book that would be of interest is - Memoir 21 The Eruption of the Soufriere Hills Volcano, Montserrat - list price ?150.00 How to register: You can register via the Online Bookshop home page - click on "Register", then make sure the "Newsletter" box is ticked. Remember to register your details with the Geological Society Online Bookshop Newsletter by Thursday 6th July 2006. If you have registered your details, we will send you an email on Friday 7th July reminding you of the start of the sale and the publications on offer. The sale will last for one week only: Friday 7th July until Friday 14th July, and will be available only via the Online Bookshop: www.geolsoc.org.uk/bookshop ============================================================== From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Jun 22 07:38:39 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Jun 22 07:38:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Amelia amethyst In-Reply-To: <8C86405B6BD6195-1460-123@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <015901c69609$677ec0b0$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Earl: I find your rejection of amethyst at the Ligon prospect puzzling. I am certainly not an expert, but my understanding of Amethyst's basic components are quartz, iron contaminant, radioactivity and heat. Pegmatites certainly provide the necessary ingredients. Am I missing something? Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of guertiew@aol.com Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 7:26 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Amelia amethyst Sorry, guys, amethyst is not found at the "Ligon" prospects in Amelia Co. These are strictly pegmatites, not the sort of thing where amethyst is found. One of the Ligon prospects had fine chunks of nearly colorless quartz that some call "rose" quartz due to dispersed TiO2. Perhaps that's what you have, if it's from Ligon at all. Earl -----Original Message----- From: Drew To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:28:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Amelia amethyst Thanks Kenny... that clears that up! Maybe I will make it to Amelia Co sometime! If WNC would quit luring me in! Drew On 6/21/06, Kenny Gay wrote: > > Drew, > My specimen is from the Ligon mine/prospect. > Kenny > > Drew wrote: > > > If you don't mind, that would be great! It wasn't the Ligon Prospect > was > > it? > > > > Drew > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Thu Jun 22 08:23:42 2006 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Thu Jun 22 08:23:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Apology Message-ID: Hi Julie (and anyone else who was miffed by my first posting), I apologize if my contribution to the former Amazon discussion ruffled some feathers but, as I made abundantly clear in the first few words of my posting, I have only just joined this list, and was therefore unaware of any requests to table that topic. Perhaps it was posted in the 'issue' that arrived the day before I did -- I have no way of knowing, for certain, one way or the other. Nonetheless, I'm disappointed to hear that my input came after the final bell, and am publicly apologizing to any and all who took affront at my inexperience; no affront was intended. Regards, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com Message: 29 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:25:31 -0700 From: "Julie Siebel" Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] NO MORE Amazon vs. Rockhounds To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <005b01c6954f$5bf27850$0200a8c0@warren> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response OK, guys, this is your second warning; the first was 14 hours ago. If and when there is more information one of the admins will let the list know. Until then this topic is done, please. Next time, we're going to have to turn on moderation. Julie From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Thu Jun 22 11:10:56 2006 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Thu Jun 22 11:11:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] My website (thanks, Al!) Message-ID: To anyone who's interested: The website of mine that Al Balmer as kind enough to direct everyone to is still "a work in process", and by no means completed. Although I'd had it built for my company two years ago (the week before our daughter surprised us with her early arrival), my attention's been spread far and wide by faceting orders, custom jewelry design and goldsmithing jobs, health issues and, of course, family obligations since then and, to date, there simply hasn't been enough "me" left over to cover webmastering, as well. Hopefully, now that my inventory is at last nearly all catalogued, I'll be able to devote some of this summer's down-time to showing a bit more of it to the world at large. (Since the site requires some major renovations, early September is likely to be about when those updates hit the virtual airwaves, so please don't be stunned if my funny placeholders continue to exist, until then.) All the same, thank you, Al, for caring enough to share that link with everyone else, and for your kind words about its contents. I honestly do appreciate the nod. All the best, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com From edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 22 18:39:33 2006 From: edwardjwagner at bellsouth.net (edwardjwagner@bellsouth.net) Date: Thu Jun 22 18:39:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] About mineral collecting by Rock Currier Message-ID: <20060623013933.GTSH21028.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Dear Rock, I read your article and found it to be accurate, thorough and insightful. I especially liked the advice about visiting museums, shows and collections, which is how I learned about minerals in the WNC area. Having just come from the Colburn Gem Fest in Asheville NC, I appreciated your comments about mineral dealers and pricing, as well. The article did seem to have a number of typo's, or errors in usage, as it may be, and some paragraphs weher I would have used different phrasing, but this is a matter of diction. I currently edit manuscripts of contracts translated from Spanish into English. I take the text and try to get it to sound like fluent English. I have a degree in English, and have taught composition and English Lit. also. I'd be happy to help with the editing, if you wish. Ed Wagner From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Fri Jun 23 09:32:14 2006 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Fri Jun 23 09:32:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks! Message-ID: Hi Nate, Al, Larry & company, You folks are a veritable wellspring of info! A hearty "thanks" to all who pitched in with info on the sites in Maine and NH. If I can sidestep the visiting in-laws, this weekend, I'll try to stop by Larry's booth at the Gilsom swap; I've heard of that gathering ever since I began collecting -- as a boy, back in 1965 -- and it, like Spruce Pine and Quartzsite, have been on my list of 'must-do's' ever since. As for collecting adventures, I'm thinking I'll start off with some placer gold panning in the Ammonoosuc, next weekend, followed by a trip to Perham's a few weeks later. (I'm stoked!) Many thanks, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Fri Jun 23 09:43:04 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Fri Jun 23 09:39:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thanks! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5797D718-02D7-11DB-A5D0-0030658C1712@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi Doug, While you're at Perhams you should see if you can't connect with Frank Perham. He runs the garage coupla hundred feet up the road that makes a T at the mineral shop and is pretty much the living legend grandaddy and patriarch of Maine pegmatite mining. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada On Friday, June 23, 2006, at 01:32 PM, Douglas Turet wrote: > Hi Nate, Al, Larry & company, > > You folks are a veritable wellspring of info! A hearty "thanks" to > all who pitched in with info on the sites in Maine and NH. If I can > sidestep the visiting in-laws, this weekend, I'll try to stop by > Larry's booth at the Gilsom swap; I've heard of that gathering ever > since I began collecting -- as a boy, back in 1965 -- and it, like > Spruce Pine and Quartzsite, have been on my list of 'must-do's' ever > since. As for collecting adventures, I'm thinking I'll start off with > some placer gold panning in the Ammonoosuc, next weekend, followed by > a trip to Perham's a few weeks later. (I'm stoked!) > > Many thanks, > Doug > > Douglas Turet, GJ > Turet Design, LLC > P. O. Box 242 > Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. > Tel. (508) 586-5690 > Fax: (508) 586-5677 > Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From bobl at peaktopeak.com Fri Jun 23 10:14:50 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Fri Jun 23 10:14:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle In-Reply-To: <007001c6959d$b38108e0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <200606231714.k5NHEn1r029587@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi Alan, The drop-offs are quite steep and can range anywhere from 45 degrees to near vertical (90 degrees). That one is probably 60-70 degrees. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Alan Goldstein Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 7:47 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle I looked at the photo and don't get a feel for how steep the drop-off is. Having driven in Colorado (especially in the San Juans), I know that the drop-offs can really drop. By the way, the last few postings about "Mt. Antero claims a vehicle" dealt with goshenite. Would you please, please change to subject title when you change the topic in the text? Please? Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 3:10 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Antero claims a vehicle > Hi all, > > One of my rockhounding buddies e-mailed me a picture of a vehicle that > tumbled down Mt. Antero (Colorado, USA) on Thursday. It looks like it > didn't tumble very far (maybe just from the first switchback), but it is > definitely a complete loss. He said that the people in the car were able to > get out safely before it went over the edge. If you want to see the > picture, go to the following web page. It looks like it might've clipped > the pine tree on the left. > > http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/2006/antero/going_for_a_ride.php > > I was there on Sunday but didn't look down at this area (which is just above > where we usually camp). > > Regards, > > Bob > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Fri Jun 23 13:57:13 2006 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Fri Jun 23 13:57:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Message-ID: Has anyone on the list ever heard of (or collected at) a site called "Diamond Hill" in northern Rhode Island? My cousin just mentioned it, and said that diamonds have occasionally been found there, although cuttable garnets are more often the norm, and the juxtaposition of those two in the same sentence amde me wonder if there's anything to the rumor. Anyone? All the best, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com From bobl at peaktopeak.com Fri Jun 23 14:29:52 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Fri Jun 23 14:30:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200606232130.k5NLUhOr010443@bubbleator.drizzle.com> As of 1926, diamonds had not been found there. See http://www.minsocam.org/msa/collectors_corner/arc/rimin1.htm Maybe they have been found since then, or maybe they are really clear quartz crystals that look like diamonds, like the famous "Herkimer Diamonds". Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Turet Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 2:57 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Has anyone on the list ever heard of (or collected at) a site called "Diamond Hill" in northern Rhode Island? My cousin just mentioned it, and said that diamonds have occasionally been found there, although cuttable garnets are more often the norm, and the juxtaposition of those two in the same sentence amde me wonder if there's anything to the rumor. Anyone? All the best, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocknate at gmail.com Fri Jun 23 15:09:37 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Fri Jun 23 15:09:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Doug, Diamond hill was a quartz locality. I think it is now a housing development. Nate On 6/23/06, Douglas Turet wrote: > > Has anyone on the list ever heard of (or collected at) a site called > "Diamond Hill" in northern Rhode Island? My cousin just mentioned it, and > said that diamonds have occasionally been found there, although cuttable > garnets are more often the norm, and the juxtaposition of those two in the > same sentence amde me wonder if there's anything to the rumor. Anyone? > > > > All the best, > Doug > > Douglas Turet, GJ > Turet Design, LLC > P. O. Box 242 > Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. > Tel. (508) 586-5690 > Fax: (508) 586-5677 > Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Fri Jun 23 15:42:14 2006 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Fri Jun 23 15:42:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00f701c69716$2ac90690$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Doug: I certainly can't tell you about current status, though this web page still seems to be live http://www.users.muohio.edu/rakovajf/RIqtz.html If you go, let us know what the place is like. I would certainly journey that far for good amethyst. Real diamonds are extremely unlikely, though most real diamonds found in the Eastern United States have been found in unlikely environments. I lean towards the comments already provided that the diamonds are in reference to quartz crystals. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Turet Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 4:57 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Has anyone on the list ever heard of (or collected at) a site called "Diamond Hill" in northern Rhode Island? My cousin just mentioned it, and said that diamonds have occasionally been found there, although cuttable garnets are more often the norm, and the juxtaposition of those two in the same sentence amde me wonder if there's anything to the rumor. Anyone? All the best, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From llbullbull at hotmail.com Fri Jun 23 15:52:39 2006 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Fri Jun 23 15:52:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <00f701c69716$2ac90690$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: Doug: I have been there a few times; although, after having gone I do not know why I went back... There are quartz crystals there with small terminations radiating from very long roots, up to a couple of inches. The crystals are not very attractive. As far as I am aware there are no garnets in the immediate area. There was a hematite location just about 200 or 300 yards to the south but now houses have been built there. In that same area there was a quartz after barite seam which was interesting. The housing development was good and bad in that it exposed things but ultimately made everything off limits. Diamond Hill itself is in a Rhode Island state park and as far as I know you are still able to collect there. It is quite an impressive outcrop, very steep. Rock climbers have been know to frequent the cliff there. The famous RI danolite location is within a couple of miles. After having checked this location many times I have yet to find any mineralization there. But there once was. >From: "Ted Kowalski" >Reply-To: Ted@crystalgems.com, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing >list for rock and gem collectors" >To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors'" >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] (no subject) >Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:40:58 -0400 > >Doug: >I certainly can't tell you about current status, though this web page still >seems to be live http://www.users.muohio.edu/rakovajf/RIqtz.html > >If you go, let us know what the place is like. I would certainly journey >that far for good amethyst. > >Real diamonds are extremely unlikely, though most real diamonds found in >the >Eastern United States have been found in unlikely environments. I lean >towards the comments already provided that the diamonds are in reference to >quartz crystals. > >Ted Kowalski >Fredericksburg, VA USA > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Turet >Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 4:57 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) > >Has anyone on the list ever heard of (or collected at) a site called >"Diamond Hill" in northern Rhode Island? My cousin just mentioned it, and >said that diamonds have occasionally been found there, although cuttable >garnets are more often the norm, and the juxtaposition of those two in the >same sentence amde me wonder if there's anything to the rumor. Anyone? > > > >All the best, >Doug > >Douglas Turet, GJ >Turet Design, LLC >P. O. Box 242 >Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. >Tel. (508) 586-5690 >Fax: (508) 586-5677 >Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From llbullbull at hotmail.com Fri Jun 23 15:54:07 2006 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Fri Jun 23 15:54:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <00f701c69716$2ac90690$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: Hello Doug and Ted: The Diamond Hill with amethyst is not the same place. The amethyst location is in southern RI and on private property. Take care, Larry Bull >From: "Ted Kowalski" >Reply-To: Ted@crystalgems.com, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing >list for rock and gem collectors" >To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors'" >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] (no subject) >Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 18:40:58 -0400 > >Doug: >I certainly can't tell you about current status, though this web page still >seems to be live http://www.users.muohio.edu/rakovajf/RIqtz.html > >If you go, let us know what the place is like. I would certainly journey >that far for good amethyst. > >Real diamonds are extremely unlikely, though most real diamonds found in >the >Eastern United States have been found in unlikely environments. I lean >towards the comments already provided that the diamonds are in reference to >quartz crystals. > >Ted Kowalski >Fredericksburg, VA USA > > >-----Original Message----- >From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >[mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Turet >Sent: Friday, June 23, 2006 4:57 PM >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) > >Has anyone on the list ever heard of (or collected at) a site called >"Diamond Hill" in northern Rhode Island? My cousin just mentioned it, and >said that diamonds have occasionally been found there, although cuttable >garnets are more often the norm, and the juxtaposition of those two in the >same sentence amde me wonder if there's anything to the rumor. Anyone? > > > >All the best, >Doug > >Douglas Turet, GJ >Turet Design, LLC >P. O. Box 242 >Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. >Tel. (508) 586-5690 >Fax: (508) 586-5677 >Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Jun 23 16:05:47 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Jun 23 16:05:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] collecting opportunities in Maine Message-ID: <20060623230547.3904.qmail@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Hi: Regarding overweight middle aged rock collectors looking for places to collect that will be interesting and not break your back, I really enjoyed visiting Poland Mining Camp in Poland ME. The Groves built a wonderful summer camp for rockhounds, take you around to otherwise closed but semi-active quarries, including Mt. Apatite, serve a great dinner with rustic cabins to sleep in. I have a tiny TN with lavender apatite xtals from their quarry, and a big chunk of cleavelandite (or maybe albite?) feldspar with a green spray of tourmaline a couple of cm long/wide embedded in it too! Sweet. It was a great deal, and I'm still planning to do a pegmatite workshop with Richard Sprague and the guys from New Orleans U. Just not this summer, I've got a small construction project, with a backhoe and lots of mud since it started raining last week. But they really cater to rockhounds of all ages and experience levels, and will show you where the good spots are at the various old, abandoned, and semi-active quarries they have access to. Mary is working things alone now, but I still see the ad in the magazines and their web site is up to date and active, so give them a call and see if they can fit you in for 3 or 4 days of dirty fun! All you can eat, too, of good country food! JR --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups gets better. Check out the new email design. Plus there?s much more to come. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mineral.maertens at att.net Sat Jun 24 08:15:34 2006 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan Maertens) Date: Sat Jun 24 08:19:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamond Hill - RI In-Reply-To: <200606240121.k5O1KvKi032011@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: About the amethyst: I met with Sal Avella one of the founders and saw specimens at his great store in Rhode Island. The place is gone and developed. Johan Maertens mineral dot maertens at att dot net Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite Collectors Association Visit http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ From rutile1 at carolina.rr.com Sat Jun 24 08:31:24 2006 From: rutile1 at carolina.rr.com (Todd Hamrick) Date: Sat Jun 24 08:32:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamond Hill - RI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <449D5ACC.20802@carolina.rr.com> Johan Maertens wrote: > About the amethyst: I met with Sal Avella one of the founders and saw > specimens at his great store in Rhode Island. > The place is gone and developed. > > > As a big amethyst collector,does anyone know of any for sale? From llbullbull at hotmail.com Sat Jun 24 18:10:24 2006 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Sat Jun 24 18:10:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamond Hill - RI In-Reply-To: <449D5ACC.20802@carolina.rr.com> Message-ID: Hello: Diamond Hill itself may be gone but the place where the amethyst has been collected for the last twenty some years is still there; however, it is on private property. I have collected with Sal Avella once per year for most of the last ten years or so. He is the only one that the property owners allow access for collecting. As for the collecting some years have been good and some not so good. I have some of the amethyst material now but not what I would really nice pieces. The next yearly dig will not be until the fall and who knows what that will bring. Take care, Larry Bull >From: Todd Hamrick >Reply-To: rutile1@carolina.rr.com, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A >mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >To: mineral.maertens@att.net, "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing >list for rock and gem collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Diamond Hill - RI >Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 11:31:24 -0400 > >Johan Maertens wrote: >>About the amethyst: I met with Sal Avella one of the founders and saw >>specimens at his great store in Rhode Island. >>The place is gone and developed. >> >> >> >As a big amethyst collector,does anyone know of any for sale? > >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Sat Jun 24 19:43:54 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Sat Jun 24 19:44:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Checking mineral hardness Message-ID: <008b01c69801$3f47b0d0$bd79a118@feldsparflash> To the list: A week or so ago one of the list members was asking about mineral hardness test kits. I purchased a set of hardness picks from Mineralab and have found them to be an excellent tools for checking hardness with the smallest of scratches, particularly if you are using a microscope. The tools have metal points, Mohs' 2 through 9. The kit comes in a woodcase and also includes a small streakplate, magnet, glass, and an emery board for honing the points. The cost now is $64.00, a bit more than 9 years ago. This hardness pick set is sold by Mineralab at www.mineralab.com. Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com Sun Jun 25 06:11:48 2006 From: jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com (jennifer) Date: Sun Jun 25 06:11:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack In-Reply-To: <20060505184832.64578.qmail@web38811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Did the group ever figure out where one could order mineral tack. If so, where can I send away for some. I found a package of it once at Dave's Rock Shop in Evanston, IL, but not sure he still carries it or does mail order. Will let the group know if he does, but also want other sources as well. I'm living in southeast Florida now and feeling completely disconnected from my center (rocks and stones). Am feeling the want to return north for a few days but not time yet. In the meantime, does anyone know how far north I need to go until I'd start to see ocean stones that don't look like seashells? :-( All whining aside, there are some positives to being down here, but I do miss the Great Lakes. Have to find a way to be a snowbird, and go back and forth every few months, at least during the summer and fall to collect stones and see the colors change. thanks, jennifer From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 25 06:25:45 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Jun 25 06:26:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060625132546.2679.qmail@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- jennifer wrote: > Did the group ever figure out where one could order > mineral tack. Try Walmart. I haven't had to buy any in many years (I recycle what others use on specimens sent to me), but that's the recommendation I've heard. Buy a small package and test it before use to be safe. Put a piece on a piece of typing paper (unglazed) and leave it out in the sun for a few days. If you see no oily stain soaked in to the paper, you're good to go. Another possibility is David Shannon Minerals, 6649 E. Rustic Dr., Mesa, AZ 85215 Phone or Fax (480) 985-0557. Jim Daly __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com Sun Jun 25 06:49:15 2006 From: jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com (jennifer) Date: Sun Jun 25 06:49:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack In-Reply-To: <20060625132546.2679.qmail@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Jim. I appreciate the information. I'm wondering what department of Walmart I would go to look for the mineral tack, or are you talking about the tacky stuff used for hanging up posters, etc.? thanks again, jennifer -----Original Message----- From: Jim Daly [mailto:sauktown1@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 9:26 AM To: jennifer@thevioletgypsy.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack --- jennifer wrote: > Did the group ever figure out where one could order > mineral tack. Try Walmart. I haven't had to buy any in many years (I recycle what others use on specimens sent to me), but that's the recommendation I've heard. Buy a small package and test it before use to be safe. Put a piece on a piece of typing paper (unglazed) and leave it out in the sun for a few days. If you see no oily stain soaked in to the paper, you're good to go. Another possibility is David Shannon Minerals, 6649 E. Rustic Dr., Mesa, AZ 85215 Phone or Fax (480) 985-0557. Jim Daly __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Sun Jun 25 20:33:51 2006 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (Sandra B. Gee) Date: Sun Jun 25 20:33:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack In-Reply-To: <20060625132546.2679.qmail@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060626033351.96823.qmail@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >From John Betts' website johnbetts-fineminerals.com, I recall this entry in his journal of weekly commentary section http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/jhbnyc/journal.htm In the April 4, 2006 entry, he states that it seems that the only place to get white mineral tack is from Mikon in Germany. Unfortunately, I get the impression from reading the entry is that it is only sold in a large 6 kilo (13.2 pound) roll. I also recall a discussion of mineral tack a while back. I can't seem to access the archived messages from the eclecticlapidary.com site. Sandra Gee --- Jim Daly wrote: > > > --- jennifer wrote: > > > Did the group ever figure out where one could > order > > mineral tack. > Try Walmart. I haven't had to buy any in many years > (I > recycle what others use on specimens sent to me), > but > that's the recommendation I've heard. > Buy a small package and test it before use to be > safe. > Put a piece on a piece of typing paper (unglazed) > and > leave it out in the sun for a few days. If you see > no > oily stain soaked in to the paper, you're good to > go. > Another possibility is David Shannon Minerals, 6649 > E. > Rustic Dr., Mesa, AZ 85215 Phone or Fax (480) > 985-0557. > Jim Daly > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Jun 25 20:58:35 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Jun 25 20:58:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Putty, quakehold and museum wax Message-ID: <000301c698d4$cd16f3c0$bafff604@TheBlackAdder> Here's one good source: http://www.safetystore.com/Quakehold.asp And, you don't have to buy the industrial size. Cheers, Erich Kern From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Jun 25 21:05:08 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Jun 25 21:04:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quake Hold Putty Message-ID: <000701c698d5$b79fff90$bafff604@TheBlackAdder> Here's another one. Here in California they sell this stuff in Home Depot and hardware stores to keep breakables on the shelf during an earthquake. http://www.safetycentral.com/quakholmuswa.html Cheers, Erich Kern From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 26 02:54:21 2006 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (Sandra B. Gee) Date: Mon Jun 26 02:54:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Putty, quakehold and museum wax In-Reply-To: <000301c698d4$cd16f3c0$bafff604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <20060626095421.83711.qmail@web34212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Erich, I have tried the Museum Putty and Museum Gel. The Museum Putty does not seem to work as well as the Mineral Tack. I have some large thumbnail to small miniature size specimens that always seem to fall down and I am frequently having to reposition and upright the specimen. The Museum Gel liquifies and just runs off of the acrylic base onto the shelf. Sandra. --- Erich Kern wrote: > > > Here's one good source: > > http://www.safetystore.com/Quakehold.asp > > And, you don't have to buy the industrial size. > > Cheers, > > Erich Kern > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From JHODEL at wvdep.org Mon Jun 26 06:21:26 2006 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Mon Jun 26 06:21:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack Message-ID: Hi: I bought mineral tack specifically formulated for use with mineral specimens from Jeanne's Rock Shop, of Houston TX, at their room in Tucson last winter. I bought a lot, since I was aware that some other sources had stopped carrying it. Another source for "museum display" tack and similar products is: http://store.shopreadyamerica.com/pranandco.html Hope this helps. I have tried tack from Staples and Walmart and found it unsuitable. JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Mon Jun 26 08:49:51 2006 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (Sandra B. Gee) Date: Mon Jun 26 08:49:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060626154951.1447.qmail@web34208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> JR-- I live in Houston, TX about 2 miles from Jeanne's Rock Shop. I bought the Museum Putty from them. It does not seem to keep my specimens standing upright however. Sandra. --- "J.R. Hodel" wrote: > Hi: > > I bought mineral tack specifically formulated for > use with mineral > specimens from Jeanne's Rock Shop, of Houston TX, at > their room in > Tucson last winter. I bought a lot, since I was > aware that some other > sources had stopped carrying it. > > Another source for "museum display" tack and similar > products is: > http://store.shopreadyamerica.com/pranandco.html > > Hope this helps. I have tried tack from Staples and > Walmart and found > it unsuitable. > > JR > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From tim at orerockon.com Mon Jun 26 15:09:18 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Jun 26 15:09:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Richardson's trip Madras OR Sat. 7/1 In-Reply-To: <003b01c6901a$d5159a30$0200a8c0@warren> References: <11156033.1150334117279.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <003b01c6901a$d5159a30$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060626150136.0371dd70@orerockon.com> If anyone is interested, I am going to be at Richardson's Ranch for their annual potluck barbecue this Saturday. It starts around 6:00. There are usually fireworks afterward :) Another very good reason to go is that they dozed a new road to an old thunderegg bed to open it for digging (the old Pony Butte bed aka Lawson's bed). Along the way they ran into a new thunderegg bed, which John Richardson thinks has better eggs than either the Blue Bed or Pony Butte (and that's a hard standard to beat). Anyway, I will be digging this bed Sat. AM and possibly Sun. AM as well. Anyone interested in meeting me in the morning, please email off-list. Oh yeah, the Madras Pow-wow show is going on at the same time, and they have field trips leaving the Madras fairgrounds at 8:00 Thurs-Sun morning (I think). Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From gene at fossilnut.com Mon Jun 26 17:06:16 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Mon Jun 26 17:06:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack References: <20060626154951.1447.qmail@web34208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006601c6997d$82dfe1f0$6400a8c0@hppav> I think we have been through this before. I got my mineral tack from David Shannon Minerals. Also a lot of my fold up boxes. David died a few years back but I understand the family is still running the business. Try calling at David Shannon Minerals 6649 E. Rustic Dr., Mesa, AZ 85215 Phone - 480.985.0557 Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra B. Gee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack > JR-- > > I live in Houston, TX about 2 miles from Jeanne's Rock > Shop. I bought the Museum Putty from them. It does > not seem to keep my specimens standing upright > however. > > Sandra. > > --- "J.R. Hodel" wrote: > >> Hi: >> >> I bought mineral tack specifically formulated for >> use with mineral >> specimens from Jeanne's Rock Shop, of Houston TX, at >> their room in >> Tucson last winter. I bought a lot, since I was >> aware that some other >> sources had stopped carrying it. >> >> Another source for "museum display" tack and similar >> products is: >> http://store.shopreadyamerica.com/pranandco.html >> >> Hope this helps. I have tried tack from Staples and >> Walmart and found >> it unsuitable. >> >> JR >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com Mon Jun 26 17:19:49 2006 From: jennifer at thevioletgypsy.com (jennifer) Date: Mon Jun 26 17:19:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack In-Reply-To: <006601c6997d$82dfe1f0$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: Thanks, much appreciated and think I have enough resources to find what I'm needing. Discussion complete? :-)) best, jennifer -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of EUGENE HARTSTEIN Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 8:06 PM To: mp44sturm-rocks@yahoo.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack I think we have been through this before. I got my mineral tack from David Shannon Minerals. Also a lot of my fold up boxes. David died a few years back but I understand the family is still running the business. Try calling at David Shannon Minerals 6649 E. Rustic Dr., Mesa, AZ 85215 Phone - 480.985.0557 Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandra B. Gee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Mineral Tack > JR-- > > I live in Houston, TX about 2 miles from Jeanne's Rock > Shop. I bought the Museum Putty from them. It does > not seem to keep my specimens standing upright > however. > > Sandra. > > --- "J.R. Hodel" wrote: > >> Hi: >> >> I bought mineral tack specifically formulated for >> use with mineral >> specimens from Jeanne's Rock Shop, of Houston TX, at >> their room in >> Tucson last winter. I bought a lot, since I was >> aware that some other >> sources had stopped carrying it. >> >> Another source for "museum display" tack and similar >> products is: >> http://store.shopreadyamerica.com/pranandco.html >> >> Hope this helps. I have tried tack from Staples and >> Walmart and found >> it unsuitable. >> >> JR >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Jun 26 20:07:44 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Jun 26 20:07:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Bloomington Show 2006 Message-ID: <001a01c69996$dc90a950$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I don't know how many members of this listserve visited the Bloomington (Indiana) show last weekend, but I thought I'd file a short report. I was there on Friday and didn't set up this year. I rode with three other members of our local geology club. Upon arrival, the first thing I noticed was a lot of empty space in one of the indoor fairgrounds "barns." I don't know how many people were no-shows, came in on Saturday, or just decided not to come, but I'd say there were several hundred feet of empty vending space! The other barn and the outside vendors had more typical numbers. This show has a lot of bric-a-brac as well as geology-related material. Not so much like a flea market, but I walk by a few vendors without looking at anything on their tables. There are some pure mineral dealers, some have only fossils, some only lapidary-related, but most have a little of everything. Prices range from 50 cents to $1100 (at least what I saw). I must admit when I set up last year, the perennial flowers sold quite -- stuff I grow from seed -- perhaps equal or slightly more than the geology stuff. I find this show does not have as many bargains as it use to, what is cheap is of such low quality, I can't use it. I use my own low-end self-collected minerals and fossils for grab bags and give-aways and have so much grab bag material in stock that I have no need to purchase it! I traded a couple of flats of Corydon dolomite for some Baker Ranch (Deming, NM) agates. I am not an agate collector per se, but a fellow had some pretty nice specimens that he collected, cut and polished priced from $1 to $10. I couldn't resist. This new dealer was from northern Indiana (his first rock show). There was a Pakistani couple with a great assortment of pegmatite minerals that I thought were very reasonably priced. I didn't buy anything, but I enjoyed looking -- one of the reasons I go to this show. I also do a lot of schmoozing with folks I don't see very often. In fact, with all the conversations crammed into three hours, it was amazing that I saw anything at all (much less had a voice to speak by the time I left). Perhaps I will set up again next year. As shows go, it is not busy. Last year there were times when the aisles in the barns were completely devoid of visitors! I don't think the situation was any better this year. Some people use the Bloomington Show as an example of one that has passed its prime. I don't know about that. I stopped setting up there more than a decade ago because the market for my fossils and minerals was not there and I have better things to do with my time than roast in a building behind a table of rocks for a couple of days! I'd rather roast doing field collecting!!! The Lawrence County Club does a good job and apparently has an ample number of dedicated souls willing to do a lot to get everything taken care of in a couple hours of set-up instead of a few doing everything. More power to them!!! Does anyone else have more tales from this show? Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Mon Jun 26 21:44:05 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Jun 26 21:44:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] lava falls Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060626183300.0368d2a8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Hi List, Here's a reminder that the USGS keeps a daily update on the lava here on the Big Island. For those who are not familiar with the site, all photos are worth clicking on "large" for a full-screen view. Also "Image Archive" at the top takes you to photos going back to 1997, including some spectacular scenes of lava going into the ocean. The following website shows new lava falls dropping over a cliff about 12 - 15 meters high. http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html Aloha, Kitty From Steve.Condon at nysam.org Tue Jun 27 04:49:07 2006 From: Steve.Condon at nysam.org (Steve.Condon ) Date: Tue Jun 27 04:50:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] uhu putty tack Message-ID: <200606270749.AA368640144@nysam.org> Just one more... I use the uhu brand putty tack. Easy to order at: http://www.saunders-usa.com/uhu/?brand=112&model=113 >Message: 9 >Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 20:19:49 -0400 >From: "jennifer" > >Thanks, much appreciated and think I have enough resources to find what I'm >needing. Discussion complete? :-)) > >best, >jennifer From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Tue Jun 27 07:45:59 2006 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (Sandra B. Gee) Date: Tue Jun 27 07:46:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] uhu putty tack In-Reply-To: <200606270749.AA368640144@nysam.org> Message-ID: <20060627144559.84466.qmail@web34204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Steve, Thanks for the suggestion. I have not tried this brand of putty. I am familiar with this company (Saunders) for the Rhino Skin aluminum protection cases they make for Palm Pilots. I see they also have ones for my iPod... : ) Sandra --- "Steve.Condon " wrote: > Just one more... > I use the uhu brand putty tack. Easy to order at: > http://www.saunders-usa.com/uhu/?brand=112&model=113 > > >Message: 9 > >Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 20:19:49 -0400 > >From: "jennifer" > > > > >Thanks, much appreciated and think I have enough > resources to find what I'm > >needing. Discussion complete? :-)) > > > >best, > >jennifer > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Jun 27 13:18:12 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Jun 27 13:18:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] lava falls Message-ID: Aloha to you Kitty! I stiil rarely miss a day checking this great site!HOT STUFF! Glenn > Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:44:05 -1000> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> From: kahako@hawaiiantel.net> Subject: [Rockhounds] lava falls> > Hi List,> > Here's a reminder that the USGS keeps a daily update on the lava here on > the Big Island. For those who are not familiar with the site, all photos > are worth clicking on "large" for a full-screen view. Also "Image Archive" > at the top takes you to photos going back to 1997, including some > spectacular scenes of lava going into the ocean.> > The following website shows new lava falls dropping over a cliff about 12 - > 15 meters high.> > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/main.html> > Aloha, Kitty> > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Add photos, news, and blogs about the World Cup to your Live.com homepage! http://www.live.com/getstarted --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Thu Jun 29 07:07:47 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Jun 29 07:08:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp Message-ID: <001401c69b85$66f425f0$2d8b4c0c@LarryRush> My daughter recently bought a head-lamp to help her walk her blind cat at night (another story for another time!). She came in after using it complaining about the lack of light from it. It turns out it is a portable UV LED light. It is AAA battery powered and has 3 power levels. I don't know if it is SW, LW or both, but it works well on my few fluorescent specimens. It should be OK for night field work. If anyone wants it, send me $20 and it's yours. (maybe a UV light expert on the list can expound a bit on these portable battery-powered lights...this is my first experience with one) Larry Rush "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Jun 29 09:35:47 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Jun 29 09:35:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp In-Reply-To: <001401c69b85$66f425f0$2d8b4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: Hi Larry, you should encourage your daughter. Anyone using UV for such a noble purpose is rated A+ in my book ;-))) No, seriously, if it's LED-powered then you can forget about SW and MW unless your daughter has some significant income that you're unaware of. Currently, the shortest "affordable wavelength" in LED lies around 350 nm which is LW. IF you look at the market you'll find LED's of 350 to 390 nm in steps of 10 or even 5 nm. 380 nm and above are quite reasonably priced and power-LEDs are starting to emerge. About 100$ will buy you 10 LEDs of 380 or 385 nm which is a real good extreme LW segment for ruby, wurtzite (schalenblende), manganocalcite, spodumene, sodalite, hauyn, ... Not for display purposes but usable for nightly field trips.. Most likely your daughter got hold of a 390 or 400 nm light. Cheers Axel Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lawrence Rush Verzonden: donderdag 29 juni 2006 15:08 Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp My daughter recently bought a head-lamp to help her walk her blind cat at night (another story for another time!). She came in after using it complaining about the lack of light from it. It turns out it is a portable UV LED light. It is AAA battery powered and has 3 power levels. I don't know if it is SW, LW or both, but it works well on my few fluorescent specimens. It should be OK for night field work. If anyone wants it, send me $20 and it's yours. (maybe a UV light expert on the list can expound a bit on these portable battery-powered lights...this is my first experience with one) Larry Rush "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Thu Jun 29 10:26:40 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Jun 29 10:26:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp References: Message-ID: <000e01c69ba1$2f805fa0$6d8b4c0c@LarryRush> Thank you, Axel!! This device has 20 LEDs, and is made by MXDL. The documentation is sketchy, but it does state that it has a 20 hour battery life at full power. It has 3 power levels, (and a flashing mode, don't know why). It is compact and light-weight, and is about 6X6X6cm in size. It came with an adjustable head-strap and it tilts to any angle. It's a cute gadget, but my night mineral collecting days are over, I would probably end up with a broken limb or two! Larry ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp > Hi Larry, > > you should encourage your daughter. Anyone using UV for such a noble > purpose > is rated A+ in my book ;-))) > > No, seriously, if it's LED-powered then you can forget about SW and MW > unless your daughter has some significant income that you're unaware of. > Currently, the shortest "affordable wavelength" in LED lies around 350 nm > which is LW. > IF you look at the market you'll find LED's of 350 to 390 nm in steps of > 10 > or even 5 nm. > > 380 nm and above are quite reasonably priced and power-LEDs are starting > to > emerge. > About 100$ will buy you 10 LEDs of 380 or 385 nm which is a real good > extreme LW segment for ruby, wurtzite (schalenblende), manganocalcite, > spodumene, sodalite, hauyn, ... > Not for display purposes but usable for nightly field trips.. > > Most likely your daughter got hold of a 390 or 400 nm light. > > Cheers > > Axel > [Rockhounds] UV Lamp > > > My daughter recently bought a head-lamp to help her walk her blind cat at > night (another story for another time!). She came in after using it > complaining about the lack of light from it. It turns out it is a portable > UV LED light. It is AAA battery powered and has 3 power levels. > > I don't know if it is SW, LW or both, but it works well on my few > fluorescent specimens. It should be OK for night field work. If anyone > wants > it, send me $20 and it's yours. > > (maybe a UV light expert on the list can expound a bit on these portable > battery-powered lights...this is my first experience with one) > > Larry Rush > From ki3u at hotmail.com Thu Jun 29 10:38:39 2006 From: ki3u at hotmail.com (Berj N. Ensanian) Date: Thu Jun 29 10:38:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp In-Reply-To: <001401c69b85$66f425f0$2d8b4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: Portable UV lamp: There is a small, car / truck electronic odor-eliminator that also works well as a portable UV source; I bought one from Wal-Mart's auto section a couple of years back, and made a simple modification for use with minerals flourescence checks in the field - the unit is palm-sized. I believe it is short, or at least medium wave. It was not expensive. I have handy only part of my notes on it: Honeywell Model 15200, designed to be plugged into the vehicle's cigar-lighter socket. Its position angle can be adjusted, and it will stand up by itself on a flat table. Has a fast-acting 1A fuse. Essentially it is a small U-shaped, ~ 3.5 cm length, mercury-arc UV lamp, and a blower motor. The lamp is specified good for 10,000 hours use. Noticable ozone during operation. The UV light is shielded from eye-contact by a plastic grille - this is the part that requires modification for most effective use in illuminating minerals. At 12.35 Volts it draws 0.2 amperes. Modification was sawing a 2.7 x 4.9 cm rectangle out of the grille front cover, so that the UV lamp has an open window. To remove the cover, I first had to make (by filing a nail) a triangular screw-driver blade. On re-assembly I installed standard Phillips head screws. Planned further modification - install a micro-switch to make blower and lamp operation independent of each other. For portable use, I use a 12 V gel or lantern battery, and a cigar-lighter plug-SOCKET that has a short cable terminated with alligator clips - clip those to the 12 V gel battery. Not very bright, but works very well, and the reaction of flourescent minerals to it is very different from their reaction to illumination by an F8T5/BLB blacklight, which if I remember right, is mostly longwave. Berj >From: "Lawrence Rush" wrote Thu, 29 Jun 2006 10:07:47 -0400 > >My daughter recently bought a head-lamp to help her walk her blind cat at >night (another story for another time!). She came in after using it >complaining about the lack of light from it. It turns out it is a portable >UV LED light. It is AAA battery powered and has 3 power levels. > >I don't know if it is SW, LW or both, but it works well on my few >fluorescent specimens. It should be OK for night field work. If anyone >wants it, send me $20 and it's yours. > >(maybe a UV light expert on the list can expound a bit on these portable >battery-powered lights...this is my first experience with one) > >Larry Rush > From buff1 at ptd.net Thu Jun 29 17:00:47 2006 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Thu Jun 29 17:00:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp In-Reply-To: <001401c69b85$66f425f0$2d8b4c0c@LarryRush> References: <001401c69b85$66f425f0$2d8b4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: <44A469AF.9030401@ptd.net> Lawrence Rush wrote: >My daughter recently bought a head-lamp to help her walk her blind cat at night (another story for another time!). She came in after using it complaining about the lack of light from it. It turns out it is a portable UV LED light. It is AAA battery powered and has 3 power levels. > >I don't know if it is SW, LW or both, but it works well on my few fluorescent specimens. It should be OK for night field work. If anyone wants it, send me $20 and it's yours. > >(maybe a UV light expert on the list can expound a bit on these portable battery-powered lights...this is my first experience with one) > >Larry Rush > > >"Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > Larry, Tell us more about this "head lamp".... where was it purchased?? and who sells them??? From leeper at molalla.net Thu Jun 29 19:13:00 2006 From: leeper at molalla.net (leeper) Date: Thu Jun 29 19:13:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 1. UV Lamp (Lawrence Rush) References: <200606300102.k5U11xQW006361@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000a01c69bea$b65600e0$0b01a8c0@DOUGSPC> Atypically, these 5mm LEDs are 395nm. No rocks, but some fluorescent stuff: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/bivluxd.jpg Example datasheet: http://www.bivar.com/pdf/04opto57.pdf Peak LED flashlight spectral plot: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/peakuv2.jpg 7 UV LED Peak flashlight: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/peak/peak3.jpg http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/peak/peakuv2.jpg High power UV LEDs are made by a company called CREE, here is a long distance UV throw (105ft)example(CREE LED): http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/creeuv.jpg Zoom shot of target in same photo(CREE LED):: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/creeuv2.jpg Some UV LEDs compared, shining on white paper(CREE LED):: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/creeuv1.jpg UV flashlight totally overwhelming camera, as it makes Orange fluorescent poster board glow like there is no tomorrow(CREE LED):: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/creeuv10.jpg Stopped down the camera alot (CREE LED): http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/creeuv11.jpg The same CREE LED in action: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/creeuv12.jpg There are shorter wavelength UV LEDs, which you can get as short as 250nm, but they are still a bit spendy: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/uvtop280.pdf If there is anything more you need to know about flashlights, and special purpose ones, visit us at www.candlepowerforums.com. > From: "Lawrence Rush" > Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp > I don't know if it is SW, LW or both, but it works well on my few > fluorescent specimens. It should be OK for night field work. If anyone > wants it, send me $20 and it's yours. > > (maybe a UV light expert on the list can expound a bit on these portable > battery-powered lights...this is my first experience with one) > > Larry Rush From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Thu Jun 29 19:37:55 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Jun 29 19:37:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp References: <001401c69b85$66f425f0$2d8b4c0c@LarryRush> <44A469AF.9030401@ptd.net> Message-ID: <000e01c69bee$31f61390$d8824c0c@LarryRush> Well, she got it on eBay, and decided not to return it after it was discovered to be UV. There are quite a few headlamps manufactured by MXDL on the web, and also a lot of UV penlight sizes, but I didn't see this one advertised. The sites listed by "Leeper" may lead you to the right one. Larry ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Buffenmyer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp > Lawrence Rush wrote: > >>My daughter recently bought a head-lamp to help her walk her blind cat at >>night (another story for another time!). She came in after using it >>complaining about the lack of light from it. It turns out it is a portable >>UV LED light. It is AAA battery powered and has 3 power levels. >> >>I don't know if it is SW, LW or both, but it works well on my few >>fluorescent specimens. It should be OK for night field work. If anyone >>wants it, send me $20 and it's yours. >> >>(maybe a UV light expert on the list can expound a bit on these portable >>battery-powered lights...this is my first experience with one) >> >>Larry Rush >> >> >>"Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever >>worked in the mines" >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> >> > Larry, > Tell us more about this "head lamp".... where was it purchased?? and who > sells them??? > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jun 30 08:15:46 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jun 30 08:15:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp In-Reply-To: <000e01c69ba1$2f805fa0$6d8b4c0c@LarryRush> Message-ID: Probably a Chinese model that was refitted with UV LEDs. Cheaper to leave the flashing mode as is than to re-design the electronics ;-) There are some pretty powerful 3-band LED-powered UV flashlights on the market though! See: http://www.xenopuselectronix.com/XeLED_UV.html Nothing like the more powerfull models with a 12V lead battery but still good enough for a quick peek at the mineral show (and less heavy ;-))) Axel -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Lawrence Rush Verzonden: donderdag 29 juni 2006 18:27 Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp Thank you, Axel!! This device has 20 LEDs, and is made by MXDL. The documentation is sketchy, but it does state that it has a 20 hour battery life at full power. It has 3 power levels, (and a flashing mode, don't know why). It is compact and light-weight, and is about 6X6X6cm in size. It came with an adjustable head-strap and it tilts to any angle. It's a cute gadget, but my night mineral collecting days are over, I would probably end up with a broken limb or two! Larry ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp > Hi Larry, > > you should encourage your daughter. Anyone using UV for such a noble > purpose > is rated A+ in my book ;-))) > > No, seriously, if it's LED-powered then you can forget about SW and MW > unless your daughter has some significant income that you're unaware of. > Currently, the shortest "affordable wavelength" in LED lies around 350 nm > which is LW. > IF you look at the market you'll find LED's of 350 to 390 nm in steps of > 10 > or even 5 nm. > > 380 nm and above are quite reasonably priced and power-LEDs are starting > to > emerge. > About 100$ will buy you 10 LEDs of 380 or 385 nm which is a real good > extreme LW segment for ruby, wurtzite (schalenblende), manganocalcite, > spodumene, sodalite, hauyn, ... > Not for display purposes but usable for nightly field trips.. > > Most likely your daughter got hold of a 390 or 400 nm light. > > Cheers > > Axel > [Rockhounds] UV Lamp > > > My daughter recently bought a head-lamp to help her walk her blind cat at > night (another story for another time!). She came in after using it > complaining about the lack of light from it. It turns out it is a portable > UV LED light. It is AAA battery powered and has 3 power levels. > > I don't know if it is SW, LW or both, but it works well on my few > fluorescent specimens. It should be OK for night field work. If anyone > wants > it, send me $20 and it's yours. > > (maybe a UV light expert on the list can expound a bit on these portable > battery-powered lights...this is my first experience with one) > > Larry Rush > _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From ajs at frii.com Fri Jun 30 10:00:12 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Fri Jun 30 10:00:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060630170012.7FBD04D3E7@io.frii.com> Gang, > Probably a Chinese model that was refitted with UV LEDs. Cheaper to > leave the flashing mode as is than to re-design the electronics ;-) Yeah, that was my thought too. Existing HW/SW for a headlamp including flashing mode, just use UV LEDs. Philosophical thought: If a blind cat fluouresces in the dark, does it see its shadow? Cheers, Alan Silverstein From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Fri Jun 30 12:04:03 2006 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Fri Jun 30 12:04:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp References: <20060630170012.7FBD04D3E7@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <007d01c69c77$f3e80bf0$62b0fea9@TOSHIBA> Has this something to do with the Shrodinger?s cat? AA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Silverstein" To: Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 6:00 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp > Gang, > >> Probably a Chinese model that was refitted with UV LEDs. Cheaper to >> leave the flashing mode as is than to re-design the electronics ;-) > > Yeah, that was my thought too. Existing HW/SW for a headlamp including > flashing mode, just use UV LEDs. > > Philosophical thought: If a blind cat fluouresces in the dark, does it > see its shadow? > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jun 30 12:06:01 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jun 30 12:06:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp In-Reply-To: <20060630170012.7FBD04D3E7@io.frii.com> Message-ID: >Philosophical thought: If a blind cat fluouresces in the dark, does it >see its shadow? Yes, but only on Tuesdays and if the fish is lefthanded. Whatever that means... Axel From SHMM at sussexonline.com Fri Jun 30 12:34:40 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Fri Jun 30 12:34:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c69c7c$3c092d70$2b6b1540@D3JM7W21> Ahhh, that Axel . . . can't wait for you to meet him. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 3:06 PM To: ajs@frii.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp >Philosophical thought: If a blind cat fluouresces in the dark, does it >see its shadow? Yes, but only on Tuesdays and if the fish is lefthanded. Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jun 30 14:54:01 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jun 30 14:54:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp In-Reply-To: <007d01c69c77$f3e80bf0$62b0fea9@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: >Has this something to do with the Shrodinger?s cat? Yes, in both cases... Unless you peeked under the lid, of course (This is getting silly but still scientifically correct ;-))) Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Jun 30 14:54:01 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Jun 30 14:54:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp In-Reply-To: <000601c69c7c$3c092d70$2b6b1540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: >Ahhh, that Axel . . . can't wait for you to meet him. Oh, THAT Axel... Grin Axel -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 3:06 PM To: ajs@frii.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp >Philosophical thought: If a blind cat fluouresces in the dark, does it >see its shadow? Yes, but only on Tuesdays and if the fish is lefthanded. Axel _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From glumor at faza.ru Fri Jun 30 15:43:36 2006 From: glumor at faza.ru (glumor@faza.ru) Date: Fri Jun 30 15:48:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Visit this sites! 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As the swim very near the bottom of the ocean, the eye facing upwards is larger than the eye facing towards the bottom! The next time you order a sole in a restaurant, ask the waiter for a left-handed sole. See what his reaction is. Horst ---- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Verbeek" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 9:34 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp > > Ahhh, that Axel . . . can't wait for you to meet him. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 3:06 PM > To: ajs@frii.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] UV Lamp > > >>Philosophical thought: If a blind cat fluouresces in the dark, does it >>see its shadow? > > Yes, but only on Tuesdays and if the fish is lefthanded. > > Axel > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >