From roughrock at gmail.com Sun Oct 1 12:24:03 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sun Oct 1 12:24:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars geology-Rover video In-Reply-To: <8d519d45e5d4b6a7e19f0a7175ca31a3@comcast.net> References: <8d519d45e5d4b6a7e19f0a7175ca31a3@comcast.net> Message-ID: I'm really surprised the Mars rovers are still going, 10 times longer than expected. Maybe the people who designed them could go to work in Detroit? Grant On 9/30/06, John Joldersma wrote: > article with link to video of new crater pictures. If you saw the IMax > Mars movie don't miss this. > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060928.wmars0928/ > BNStory/Science/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Oct 1 13:30:15 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Oct 1 13:30:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars geology-Rover video In-Reply-To: References: <8d519d45e5d4b6a7e19f0a7175ca31a3@comcast.net> Message-ID: I saw some comments by one of the members of the mars explorer team about this. He said the dangerous points were the takeoff, landing and getting the rovers uncoupled from the lander. After that it's mainly just mechanical breakdowns that they worry about. They've been able to compensate for all the problems so far. BK On 10/1/06, Grant Johnston wrote: > > I'm really surprised the Mars rovers are still going, 10 times longer > than expected. Maybe the people who designed them could go to work in > Detroit? > > Grant > > On 9/30/06, John Joldersma wrote: > > article with link to video of new crater pictures. If you saw the IMax > > Mars movie don't miss this. > > > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060928.wmars0928/ > > BNStory/Science/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Oct 2 08:22:22 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Oct 2 08:20:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question Message-ID: <000b01c6e636$8ef4fb00$570ba118@feldsparflash> To the List: Would any list member have an idea about location(s)? for brown sphalerite that strongly fluoresces creamy white under Short Wave UV, same color with Long Wave but not a bright. Phosphoresces a pale blue-SW & LW. This sphalerite is with white non-fluorescing barite. Thanks! Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From SHMM at sussexonline.com Mon Oct 2 09:02:03 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Mon Oct 2 09:01:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question In-Reply-To: <000b01c6e636$8ef4fb00$570ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <000701c6e63c$1a9b7620$2101a8c0@D3JM7W21> Hmmm, no idea -- it doesn't sound like sphalerite at all. I've never seen sphalerite matching that description for luminescence. What you describe really sounds more like brown fluorite, but I don't suppose that's a possibility, is it? Also fluorite with barite is a more common association, so please confirm -- we really are talking about sphalerite here? Thanks- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Reynard Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:22 AM To: Rockhounds Subject: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question To the List: Would any list member have an idea about location(s)? for brown sphalerite that strongly fluoresces creamy white under Short Wave UV, same color with Long Wave but not a bright. Phosphoresces a pale blue-SW & LW. This sphalerite is with white non-fluorescing barite. Thanks! Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Oct 2 09:15:05 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Oct 2 09:13:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question In-Reply-To: <000701c6e63c$1a9b7620$2101a8c0@D3JM7W21> References: <000701c6e63c$1a9b7620$2101a8c0@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <45213B09.1040905@verizon.net> Almost sounds like Clay Center, Ohio, fluorite! Don Earl Verbeek wrote: > Hmmm, no idea -- it doesn't sound like sphalerite at all. I've never seen > sphalerite matching that description for luminescence. What you describe > really sounds more like brown fluorite, but I don't suppose that's a > possibility, is it? Also fluorite with barite is a more common association, > so please confirm -- we really are talking about sphalerite here? > > Thanks- Earl > > ----------------------------------- > Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist > Sterling Hill Mining Museum > 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 > 973-209-7212 > shmm@sussexonline.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Reynard > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:22 AM > To: Rockhounds > Subject: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question > > To the List: > Would any list member have an idea about location(s)? for brown sphalerite > that strongly fluoresces creamy white under Short Wave > UV, same color with Long Wave but not a bright. Phosphoresces a pale > blue-SW & LW. This sphalerite is with white non-fluorescing barite. > Thanks! > Carolyn Reynard > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Oct 2 14:30:12 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Oct 2 16:15:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question References: <000701c6e63c$1a9b7620$2101a8c0@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <000101c6e678$f0ac8560$570ba118@feldsparflash> Thanks Earl & Don, Yes, it most likely is fluorite, even though the way it is intergrown with the barite it looks nothing like fluorite. It does seem cubic and it is a hardness 4! And I have heard of the Clay Center Fluorite fluorescence. Thank you! I think the mystery is solved. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Verbeek" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:02 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question > > Hmmm, no idea -- it doesn't sound like sphalerite at all. I've never seen > sphalerite matching that description for luminescence. What you describe > really sounds more like brown fluorite, but I don't suppose that's a > possibility, is it? Also fluorite with barite is a more common association, > so please confirm -- we really are talking about sphalerite here? > > Thanks- Earl > > ----------------------------------- > Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist > Sterling Hill Mining Museum > 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 > 973-209-7212 > shmm@sussexonline.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Reynard > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:22 AM > To: Rockhounds > Subject: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question > > To the List: > Would any list member have an idea about location(s)? for brown sphalerite > that strongly fluoresces creamy white under Short Wave > UV, same color with Long Wave but not a bright. Phosphoresces a pale > blue-SW & LW. This sphalerite is with white non-fluorescing barite. > Thanks! > Carolyn Reynard > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rgangue at yahoo.com Tue Oct 3 04:35:02 2006 From: rgangue at yahoo.com (Stan Perry) Date: Tue Oct 3 04:35:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question In-Reply-To: <000701c6e63c$1a9b7620$2101a8c0@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <20061003113502.77133.qmail@web54205.mail.yahoo.com> Hi All, It does sound like Clay Center OH material. I use my 5 inch fluorite crystal from there for demonstrating phosphorescense at schools. The reason I am e-mailing is to let you know if it is from Clay Center the white blades are celestine and not barite. Cheers, Stan --- Earl Verbeek wrote: > > Hmmm, no idea -- it doesn't sound like sphalerite at > all. I've never seen > sphalerite matching that description for > luminescence. What you describe > really sounds more like brown fluorite, but I don't > suppose that's a > possibility, is it? Also fluorite with barite is a > more common association, > so please confirm -- we really are talking about > sphalerite here? > > Thanks- Earl > > ----------------------------------- > Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist > Sterling Hill Mining Museum > 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 > 973-209-7212 > shmm@sussexonline.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On > Behalf Of Carolyn Reynard > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:22 AM > To: Rockhounds > Subject: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question > > To the List: > Would any list member have an idea about > location(s)? for brown sphalerite > that strongly fluoresces creamy white under Short > Wave > UV, same color with Long Wave but not a bright. > Phosphoresces a pale > blue-SW & LW. This sphalerite is with white > non-fluorescing barite. > Thanks! > Carolyn Reynard > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > Stan Perry Our Gangue Minerals www.emineralshow.com Ebay seller ID rgangue e-mail at rgangue@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Tue Oct 3 06:34:54 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Tue Oct 3 06:32:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question References: <20061003113502.77133.qmail@web54205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01c6e6f0$bb39e170$570ba118@feldsparflash> Thank you Stan, Now, I firmly believe the mystery minerals are identified. The fluorite is a deep rootbeer brown and does give a chalky cream white fluorescence plus the bluish phosphorescence. The white mineral was a toss up between barite or celestine. They have almost identical properties. I don't have the set up for flame test. I did think it was barite because no blue tint was detected. It is good to know location because that helps solve the mystery. I took on this puzzle for a fellow rockhound and I have the rockhound list members to thank. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Perry" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 7:35 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question > Hi All, > It does sound like Clay Center OH material. I use my > 5 inch fluorite crystal from there for demonstrating > phosphorescense at schools. The reason I am e-mailing > is to let you know if it is from Clay Center the white > blades are celestine and not barite. > Cheers, > Stan > > --- Earl Verbeek wrote: > > > > > Hmmm, no idea -- it doesn't sound like sphalerite at > > all. I've never seen > > sphalerite matching that description for > > luminescence. What you describe > > really sounds more like brown fluorite, but I don't > > suppose that's a > > possibility, is it? Also fluorite with barite is a > > more common association, > > so please confirm -- we really are talking about > > sphalerite here? > > > > Thanks- Earl > > > > ----------------------------------- > > Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist > > Sterling Hill Mining Museum > > 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 > > 973-209-7212 > > shmm@sussexonline.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On > > Behalf Of Carolyn Reynard > > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:22 AM > > To: Rockhounds > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Sphalerite Question > > > > To the List: > > Would any list member have an idea about > > location(s)? for brown sphalerite > > that strongly fluoresces creamy white under Short > > Wave > > UV, same color with Long Wave but not a bright. > > Phosphoresces a pale > > blue-SW & LW. This sphalerite is with white > > non-fluorescing barite. > > Thanks! > > Carolyn Reynard > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > Stan Perry > Our Gangue Minerals > www.emineralshow.com > Ebay seller ID rgangue > e-mail at rgangue@yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From leaninj at ev1.net Wed Oct 4 10:04:31 2006 From: leaninj at ev1.net (Jimmie Holley) Date: Wed Oct 4 10:05:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# Message-ID: <000801c6e7d7$2a054090$62d9dacf@jimmiespavilion> ----- Original Message ----- From: leaninh To: Jimmie Holley Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:10 PM Subject: Fw: PHONE 90# ----- Original Message ----- From: Georgia To: 'Maria' Cc: 'Norma Holley' Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:22 AM Subject: FW: PHONE 90# -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Loretta [mailto:lvondenstein@gcop-loran.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 7:55 AM To: 'Georgia' Subject: FW: PHONE 90# Check this out.....Let me know... Thanks... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:39 AM Subject: PHONE 90# I am passing this on in hopes that this is a trusted piece of info. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >Pass this on to everyone in your address book....... >> > >> >90# on your telephone >> > >> > >> >I dialed ' 0 ' and asked the operator who did confirmed that this >>was >> >correct so please pass it on. >> > >> > >> >PASS ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW >> > >> > >> >I received a telephone call last evening from an individual >>identifying >> >himself as an AT&T Service technician (could also be Telus) who >>was >> >conducting a test on the telephone lines. He stated that to >>complete the >> >test I should touch >> >nine( 9 ), zero( 0 ), the pound sign ( # ), and then hang up. >> > >> > >> >Luckily, I was suspicious and refused. >> >Upon contacting the telephone company, I was informed that by >> >pushing 90#, you give the requesting individual full access to >> >your telephone line, which enables them to place long distance >>calls >> >billed to your home phone number. >> > >> >I was further informed that this scam has been originating from >> >many local jails/prisons >> > >> > >> > >> >DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE !! >> >The GTE Security Department requested that I share this >> >information with EVERYONE I KNOW. >> > >> >After checking with Verizon they said it was true, so do not >> >dial 90# for anyone!!!!! >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >PLEASE HIT THAT FORWARD BUTTON AND PASS THIS >> >ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Oct 4 10:21:25 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Oct 4 10:22:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# References: <000801c6e7d7$2a054090$62d9dacf@jimmiespavilion> Message-ID: <003901c6e7d9$8a8ffed0$0200a8c0@warren> >> >DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE !! My understanding is that this is only the case when at a telephone where you dial 9 to get an outside line. http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa021898.htm From zebulon at isr.umich.edu Wed Oct 4 10:25:17 2006 From: zebulon at isr.umich.edu (Peter Sparks) Date: Wed Oct 4 10:25:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] PHONE 90# In-Reply-To: <003901c6e7d9$8a8ffed0$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E49D9AFD5@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu> An additional resource for checking out these sorts of things is snopes.com. http://www.snopes.com/fraud/telephone/jailcall.asp -- Peter -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Julie Siebel Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:21 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# >> >DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE !! My understanding is that this is only the case when at a telephone where you dial 9 to get an outside line. http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa021898.htm -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Oct 4 10:31:05 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Oct 4 10:31:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# References: <000801c6e7d7$2a054090$62d9dacf@jimmiespavilion> Message-ID: <2b4d01c6e7da$df34bce0$c0089444@michael01> your urban legends don't belong on this list. if you took 8 seconds to actually investigate this, you would realise that this is a complete bunch a crap, as is 99.99999% of all of the other "internet warnings" that people feel compelled to continually spread on the net...year after year. do me a favour, please, and don't post it to weblists. it's bad enough you send this nonsense to everyone in your address book...but you compound that by sending it to weblists. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmie Holley" <> To: "Suzie/Russ Goodrum" ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" ; "Peter J Modreski" ; "Norma/Ken Holley" ; "Norma Holley" ; "Howard Halasz" ; "francis & jaun" ; "Edna/Robin Hood" Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:04 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# ----- Original Message ----- From: leaninh To: Jimmie Holley Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:10 PM Subject: Fw: PHONE 90# ----- Original Message ----- From: Georgia To: 'Maria' Cc: 'Norma Holley' Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 8:22 AM Subject: FW: PHONE 90# -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Loretta [mailto:lvondenstein@gcop-loran.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 7:55 AM To: 'Georgia' Subject: FW: PHONE 90# Check this out.....Let me know... Thanks... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 11:39 AM Subject: PHONE 90# I am passing this on in hopes that this is a trusted piece of info. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >Pass this on to everyone in your address book....... >> > >> >90# on your telephone >> > >> > >> >I dialed ' 0 ' and asked the operator who did confirmed that this >>was >> >correct so please pass it on. >> > >> > >> >PASS ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW >> > >> > >> >I received a telephone call last evening from an individual >>identifying >> >himself as an AT&T Service technician (could also be Telus) who >>was >> >conducting a test on the telephone lines. He stated that to >>complete the >> >test I should touch >> >nine( 9 ), zero( 0 ), the pound sign ( # ), and then hang up. >> > >> > >> >Luckily, I was suspicious and refused. >> >Upon contacting the telephone company, I was informed that by >> >pushing 90#, you give the requesting individual full access to >> >your telephone line, which enables them to place long distance >>calls >> >billed to your home phone number. >> > >> >I was further informed that this scam has been originating from >> >many local jails/prisons >> > >> > >> > >> >DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE !! >> >The GTE Security Department requested that I share this >> >information with EVERYONE I KNOW. >> > >> >After checking with Verizon they said it was true, so do not >> >dial 90# for anyone!!!!! >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >PLEASE HIT THAT FORWARD BUTTON AND PASS THIS >> >ON TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Oct 4 10:31:19 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Oct 4 10:32:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# References: <000801c6e7d7$2a054090$62d9dacf@jimmiespavilion> <003901c6e7d9$8a8ffed0$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <2b5201c6e7da$e7a00ab0$c0089444@michael01> http://www.snopes.com/fraud/telephone/jailcall.asp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# > >>> >DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE !! > > My understanding is that this is only the case when at a telephone where > you dial 9 to get an outside line. > > http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/weekly/aa021898.htm > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From BNMJEFF at aol.com Wed Oct 4 11:19:21 2006 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 4 11:19:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# Message-ID: <323.cb3e0e7.32555529@aol.com> Michael, if you took the less that 8 seconds to delete the offensive email, we would not have had to read your 2 paragraphs of drivel. Leopards don't change their spots so why would I expect you to... Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Oct 4 11:30:23 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Oct 4 11:32:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# References: <323.cb3e0e7.32555529@aol.com> Message-ID: <2b6d01c6e7e3$27e48d00$c0089444@michael01> I put up with enough spam, porn ads and pharmacy promos on mail lists I am on, with little if no moderation at all. I really don't feel like I should have to put up with it here. I spend too many "8 seconds" deleting stuff like this.... I don't give a rat's butt what you think of me or my post. Hope that meets with your expectations. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# > Michael, > if you took the less that 8 seconds to delete the offensive email, we > would > not have had to read your 2 paragraphs of drivel. > > Leopards don't change their spots so why would I expect you to... > > Jeff > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From anthony.schlinsog at chca.com Wed Oct 4 11:40:00 2006 From: anthony.schlinsog at chca.com (Anthony Schlinsog) Date: Wed Oct 4 11:40:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# Message-ID: <6BDEA14994CAC541B914C31BB2E36990557A07@nagafen.chca.com> Michael is correct in that this is a "Rockhounds" list and, as such, should be restricted to postings concerning rocks/minerals/fossils/geology. Enough said... Anthony Schlinsog -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Michael Schmidt Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:30 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# I put up with enough spam, porn ads and pharmacy promos on mail lists I am on, with little if no moderation at all. I really don't feel like I should have to put up with it here. I spend too many "8 seconds" deleting stuff like this.... I don't give a rat's butt what you think of me or my post. Hope that meets with your expectations. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# > Michael, > if you took the less that 8 seconds to delete the offensive email, we > would > not have had to read your 2 paragraphs of drivel. > > Leopards don't change their spots so why would I expect you to... > > Jeff > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Oct 4 11:47:28 2006 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Wed Oct 4 11:51:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] {ADMIN} ENOUGH already... Message-ID: <006901c6e7e5$8f6dc2a0$0200a8c0@warren> That's quite enough you guys. Sheesh, walk away from the computer for a few minutes and all hell break loose. Take it off list. Julie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BNMJEFF at aol.com Wed Oct 4 11:51:24 2006 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 4 11:51:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# Message-ID: <53f.2efe1220.32555cac@aol.com> In a message dated 10/4/2006 2:33:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca writes: I don't give a rat's butt what you think of me or my post. Much like the person who sent the original post doesn't care a rat's butt about you or your precious 8 seconds...and as usual you lived up to my expectations..a typical knee jerk moronic response --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Oct 4 11:55:50 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Oct 4 11:55:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# References: <53f.2efe1220.32555cac@aol.com> Message-ID: <2b8101c6e7e6$b7f970b0$c0089444@michael01> aww...yer gonna make me cry another 16 seconds of my life I'll never get back. Glad I didn't disappoint you! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:51 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# > > In a message dated 10/4/2006 2:33:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca writes: > > I don't give a rat's butt what you think of me or my post. > > > Much like the person who sent the original post doesn't care a rat's butt > about you or your precious 8 seconds...and as usual you lived up to my > expectations..a typical knee jerk moronic response > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From BNMJEFF at aol.com Wed Oct 4 12:00:10 2006 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 4 12:00:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# Message-ID: <58f.5260e03.32555eba@aol.com> Gonna cry like you did when the cops barred you from trolling the bus station at night? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Oct 4 12:14:03 2006 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Oct 4 12:14:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# In-Reply-To: <58f.5260e03.32555eba@aol.com> Message-ID: <006d01c6e7e9$41ce1960$ca3a88d9@Rik> Apparently nothing improved since the few months. I will unsubscribe fot the second time at least temporarily, and perhaps try it once again in the future. But I'm afraid this list will never be again what it has been a few years ago. I'm really sad that I've have to come to this conclusion. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2006 - 6 and 7 May 2006 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Oct 4 12:10:43 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Oct 4 12:14:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# References: <58f.5260e03.32555eba@aol.com> Message-ID: <2ba101c6e7e8$ca4e8410$c0089444@michael01> I complained about this urban legend posting because there seems to be very little moderation on this list, and that was essentially my complaint. The fact that Julie asked this to be taken off list shows me that there is moderation (some at least), so I will respect her request and not respond to your ever so imaginitive email...at least on list. But please, feel free to email me off list...... PS. I was ticketed for that bus station thing..... :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fw: PHONE 90# > Gonna cry like you did when the cops barred you from trolling the bus > station at night? > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From darren at offtherackpro.com Wed Oct 4 12:37:56 2006 From: darren at offtherackpro.com (Darren D'Agostino) Date: Wed Oct 4 12:38:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] In-Reply-To: <006d01c6e7e9$41ce1960$ca3a88d9@Rik> References: <006d01c6e7e9$41ce1960$ca3a88d9@Rik> Message-ID: <1B0348E4-749E-417A-8C53-E4E814BB0FF3@offtherackpro.com> I think it's time the email assassins stop clogging all our inboxes. To break the mood here's two questions... OK 3: 1) Are diamond nanorods still the hardest substance known to man? 2) What's the GPS coordinates for these 40+ year old's who live in their mother's basements and fight through email lists while they masturbate with powdered mika? I think we could all do with a good old fashioned long-range diamond stoning. and since I have now wasted more space and sunk to the level of albino toad shit for even mentioning these cretans, I will pose a serious question: 3) Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have microscopic organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I mean feet+. I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't sure to what extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores in the rock or burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely found, what are the compositions of these rocks, and which part of the world is this most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of temperatures would be needed to reach the inner depths of these rocks to destroy such organisms. From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 4 13:27:59 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Oct 4 13:27:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] {ADMIN} ENOUGH already... References: <006901c6e7e5$8f6dc2a0$0200a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <002d01c6e7f3$97aa08d0$62ec254b@LarryRush> Julie: Is there an administrator's process for removing members from this list for "ungentlemanly behavior"? Perhaps a vote by the general members? We should never have to lose respected members like Rik because a couple of hot-heads have never learned how to be civil. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] {ADMIN} ENOUGH already... That's quite enough you guys. Sheesh, walk away from the computer for a few minutes and all hell break loose. Take it off list. Julie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Wed Oct 4 13:29:40 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Oct 4 13:29:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [ADMIN] PHONE 90# In-Reply-To: <2b6d01c6e7e3$27e48d00$c0089444@michael01> References: <323.cb3e0e7.32555529@aol.com> <2b6d01c6e7e3$27e48d00$c0089444@michael01> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061004102753.03996bb8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Stop. The Admin Team is dealing with this off-List. In the meantime drop this topic and all personal remarks. Kitty (Admin Team Member) From jlkelly1066 at iglide.net Thu Oct 5 05:26:39 2006 From: jlkelly1066 at iglide.net (jlkelly1066) Date: Thu Oct 5 05:26:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Is there an answer Message-ID: <4524f9ff.3d1.62f1.22069@iglide.net> Forgive the length of this, I fear it may be long. I'm what many people call a "lurker" on several lists. I read, once in a while I respond, once in a while I post a question, sometimes I add a correction etc. It is NOT my life, I know where the delete button is and use it often. I receive this list in a condensed form (for the most part) and normally read through the subjects, read a message or two but normally just delete the whole email rather than waste my time on things that don't interest me. I have a very old and very dear friend back in New Jersey who sends me literally every urban legend that comes across his computer. I have reminded him many times aabout the ability to check these things out himself. Doesn't do any good. He also floods me with dozens of "Pass this on to your closest 200 friends or a brick will fall out of the sky into your lasagne and splash all over your petunias type of message. I'd like to tell him to stop because I NEVER pass them on. Then one day I realized that if I didn't receive the junk I might not hear from him at all and that would hurt. We've just gone through a very ugly situation with one well-meaning individual posting something on the list that had absolutely noting to do with any kind of rockhounding, mineral identification or anything else that should be posted here. The rest you know, insults, obscenities, foul language, people, probably good people dropping off, good people who may be "lurkers" like me or might be knowledgeable and be able to help others with a fantastic, fun and enjoyable hobby, business, interest. I'm sorry. Wouldn't have the administrators jobs for anything in the world. The frightening thing about this wole thing is that for some it is their only chance at the 15 minutes of fame Warhold told us we each had to have. In a nutshell: Come on, get a life! Some of the nicest people I have ever met have been rockhounds I have met and shared with in the field, at shows and around the world. Some of the ugliest people I have seen have been on this list who seem to find their "only" pleasure in insulting, degrading, defaming and then denying others the right to be human. Good luck all, Kitty and the other administrators, you have my prayers. Oh, I'm not leaving. I still know where that delete button is albeit I will probably hit it a bit more frequently, particularly when I see some people posting responses. I will still post a question once in a while, offer my services and information as a guide to my area when possible and find new friends. And I will still wonder what on earth some of you are here for if it is not to "share" this great hobby instead of sniping at everyone you can. As Tiny Tim said, "God bless us everyone." Kelly From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Oct 5 06:16:56 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Oct 5 06:16:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Is there an answer Message-ID: <100520061316.1267.452505C6000D2298000004F3215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Thanks, Kelly, for writing & posting your well written and calm thoughts, and thanks again also to Kitty, Julie, and the admin team for always doing your best at keep the list on track. Here's to good thoughts about Rocks! Pete P.S., a new book on Agates has just been published, by Roger Pabian and coauthors; I haven't seen it, but I'm sure it's excellent. I'll forward a message shortly, with more info! -------------- Original message from "jlkelly1066" : -------------- > Forgive the length of this, I fear it may be long. > > I'm what many people call a "lurker" on several lists. I > read, once in a while I respond, once in a while I post a > question, sometimes I add a correction etc. It is NOT my > life, I know where the delete button is and use it often. I > receive this list in a condensed form (for the most part) > and normally read through the subjects, read a message or > two but normally just delete the whole email rather than > waste my time on things that don't interest me. > > I have a very old and very dear friend back in New Jersey > who sends me literally every urban legend that comes across > his computer. I have reminded him many times aabout the > ability to check these things out himself. Doesn't do any > good. He also floods me with dozens of "Pass this on to your > closest 200 friends or a brick will fall out of the sky into > your lasagne and splash all over your petunias type of > message. I'd like to tell him to stop because I NEVER pass > them on. > > Then one day I realized that if I didn't receive the junk I > might not hear from him at all and that would hurt. > > We've just gone through a very ugly situation with one > well-meaning individual posting something on the list that > had absolutely noting to do with any kind of rockhounding, > mineral identification or anything else that should be > posted here. The rest you know, insults, obscenities, foul > language, people, probably good people dropping off, good > people who may be "lurkers" like me or might be > knowledgeable and be able to help others with a fantastic, > fun and enjoyable hobby, business, interest. > > I'm sorry. Wouldn't have the administrators jobs for > anything in the world. The frightening thing about this wole > thing is that for some it is their only chance at the 15 > minutes of fame Warhold told us we each had to have. > > In a nutshell: Come on, get a life! Some of the nicest > people I have ever met have been rockhounds I have met and > shared with in the field, at shows and around the world. > Some of the ugliest people I have seen have been on this > list who seem to find their "only" pleasure in insulting, > degrading, defaming and then denying others the right to be > human. > > Good luck all, Kitty and the other administrators, you have > my prayers. Oh, I'm not leaving. I still know where that > delete button is albeit I will probably hit it a bit more > frequently, particularly when I see some people posting > responses. I will still post a question once in a while, > offer my services and information as a guide to my area when > possible and find new friends. And I will still wonder what > on earth some of you are here for if it is not to "share" > this great hobby instead of sniping at everyone you can. > > As Tiny Tim said, "God bless us everyone." > > Kelly > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From spocksrocks at hotmail.com Thu Oct 5 07:23:15 2006 From: spocksrocks at hotmail.com (Scott Blair) Date: Thu Oct 5 07:23:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] black phantom quartz References: <100520061316.1267.452505C6000D2298000004F3215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Hi folks: I recently picked up a few flats of quartz that had been squirreled away in someone's garage for at least a decade. All locality information had been lost, but, as the story went, a father and son traveled around and collected the material. I've seen enough quartz to believe that the great majority of it is from Arkansas. There were a few flats of crystals with dark gray to black phantoms. In some cases the phantoms are well defined, and in other cases, there is just a darker smudge contained within the crystal at the base. Has anyone ever heard of this sort of thing occurring at any of the mines in Arkansas? Where might these points be from? About 12 or more years ago, I remember seeing some Arkansas "blue phantom" quartz passing through my area (Southern Oregon). As I recall, the blue phantoms were grayish blue smudges at the bases of the crystals, and not much more than that. The phantoms that I'm seeing in the quartz I picked up just now, are definitely black. No hint of blueish color at all. Warm Regards - Scott Blair From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Oct 5 07:29:55 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Oct 5 07:29:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] black phantom quartz In-Reply-To: References: <100520061316.1267.452505C6000D2298000004F3215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040610050729u7b492c20yea0a4cf18b014d76@mail.gmail.com> Scott, Are the crystals single terminated or doubly terminated? What size are they? Drew On 10/5/06, Scott Blair wrote: > > Hi folks: > > I recently picked up a few flats of quartz that had been squirreled away > in > someone's garage for at least a decade. All locality information had been > lost, but, as the story went, a father and son traveled around and > collected > the material. I've seen enough quartz to believe that the great majority > of > it is from Arkansas. There were a few flats of crystals with dark gray to > black phantoms. In some cases the phantoms are well defined, and in other > cases, there is just a darker smudge contained within the crystal at the > base. > > Has anyone ever heard of this sort of thing occurring at any of the mines > in > Arkansas? Where might these points be from? About 12 or more years ago, I > remember seeing some Arkansas "blue phantom" quartz passing through my > area > (Southern Oregon). As I recall, the blue phantoms were grayish blue > smudges > at the bases of the crystals, and not much more than that. > > The phantoms that I'm seeing in the quartz I picked up just now, are > definitely black. No hint of blueish color at all. > > Warm Regards - Scott Blair > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 5 07:31:40 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Thu Oct 5 07:31:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] black phantom quartz References: <100520061316.1267.452505C6000D2298000004F3215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <009301c6e88a$f964c6e0$169d2a4b@LarryRush> Scott: Some years ago, people used to irradiate Arkansas quartz to make it "smoky", but they were pretty much uniformly colored, as I recall. Any one else have any history with these things? Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Blair" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:23 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] black phantom quartz > Hi folks: > > I recently picked up a few flats of quartz that had been squirreled away > in > someone's garage for at least a decade. All locality information had been > lost, but, as the story went, a father and son traveled around and > collected > the material. I've seen enough quartz to believe that the great majority > of > it is from Arkansas. There were a few flats of crystals with dark gray to > black phantoms. In some cases the phantoms are well defined, and in other > cases, there is just a darker smudge contained within the crystal at the > base. > > Has anyone ever heard of this sort of thing occurring at any of the mines > in > Arkansas? Where might these points be from? About 12 or more years ago, I > remember seeing some Arkansas "blue phantom" quartz passing through my > area > (Southern Oregon). As I recall, the blue phantoms were grayish blue > smudges > at the bases of the crystals, and not much more than that. > > The phantoms that I'm seeing in the quartz I picked up just now, are > definitely black. No hint of blueish color at all. > > Warm Regards - Scott Blair > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Thu Oct 5 07:52:26 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Oct 5 07:52:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] black phantom quartz In-Reply-To: References: <100520061316.1267.452505C6000D2298000004F3215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 07:23:15 -0700, "Scott Blair" wrote: >Hi folks: > >I recently picked up a few flats of quartz that had been squirreled away in >someone's garage for at least a decade. All locality information had been >lost, but, as the story went, a father and son traveled around and collected >the material. I've seen enough quartz to believe that the great majority of >it is from Arkansas. There were a few flats of crystals with dark gray to >black phantoms. In some cases the phantoms are well defined, and in other >cases, there is just a darker smudge contained within the crystal at the >base. > >Has anyone ever heard of this sort of thing occurring at any of the mines in >Arkansas? Phantoms are not uncommon in Arkansas, and Wegner's has one mine that is well known for producing phantoms. They are dark manganese inclusions, according to the mine owners. http://www.wegnercrystalmines.com/ > Where might these points be from? About 12 or more years ago, I >remember seeing some Arkansas "blue phantom" quartz passing through my area >(Southern Oregon). As I recall, the blue phantoms were grayish blue smudges >at the bases of the crystals, and not much more than that. > >The phantoms that I'm seeing in the quartz I picked up just now, are >definitely black. No hint of blueish color at all. > >Warm Regards - Scott Blair -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Oct 5 07:58:21 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Oct 5 07:59:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] black phantom quartz References: <100520061316.1267.452505C6000D2298000004F3215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <009301c6e88a$f964c6e0$169d2a4b@LarryRush> Message-ID: <2d4001c6e88e$be5465c0$c0089444@michael01> the vast majority of Arkansas smoky quartz is artificially irradiated, versus natural radiation. There's something about the process, as well, where very good quality quartz must be used for material that is going to be artificially irradiated. As a result, the price is a lot more.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] black phantom quartz > Scott: Some years ago, people used to irradiate Arkansas quartz to make it > "smoky", but they were pretty much uniformly colored, as I recall. Any one > else have any history with these things? > > Larry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Blair" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:23 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] black phantom quartz > > >> Hi folks: >> >> I recently picked up a few flats of quartz that had been squirreled away >> in >> someone's garage for at least a decade. All locality information had been >> lost, but, as the story went, a father and son traveled around and >> collected >> the material. I've seen enough quartz to believe that the great majority >> of >> it is from Arkansas. There were a few flats of crystals with dark gray to >> black phantoms. In some cases the phantoms are well defined, and in other >> cases, there is just a darker smudge contained within the crystal at the >> base. >> >> Has anyone ever heard of this sort of thing occurring at any of the mines >> in >> Arkansas? Where might these points be from? About 12 or more years ago, I >> remember seeing some Arkansas "blue phantom" quartz passing through my >> area >> (Southern Oregon). As I recall, the blue phantoms were grayish blue >> smudges >> at the bases of the crystals, and not much more than that. >> >> The phantoms that I'm seeing in the quartz I picked up just now, are >> definitely black. No hint of blueish color at all. >> >> Warm Regards - Scott Blair >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Thu Oct 5 08:23:46 2006 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (Sandra B. Gee) Date: Thu Oct 5 08:23:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Is there an answer In-Reply-To: <100520061316.1267.452505C6000D2298000004F3215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <20061005152346.11634.qmail@web34212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I second Pete's comments. BTW, Kelly, your post addressed some very pertinent things about netetiquette. Beautifully crystallized... Octahedron or tabular? ;-) --- pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > Thanks, Kelly, for writing & posting your well > written and calm thoughts, and thanks again also to > Kitty, Julie, and the admin team for always doing > your best at keep the list on track. > > Here's to good thoughts about Rocks! > > Pete > > P.S., a new book on Agates has just been published, > by Roger Pabian and coauthors; I haven't seen it, > but I'm sure it's excellent. I'll forward a message > shortly, with more info! > > > -------------- Original message from "jlkelly1066" > : -------------- > > > > Forgive the length of this, I fear it may be long. > > > > > I'm what many people call a "lurker" on several > lists. I > > read, once in a while I respond, once in a while I > post a > > question, sometimes I add a correction etc. It is > NOT my > > life, I know where the delete button is and use it > often. I > > receive this list in a condensed form (for the > most part) > > and normally read through the subjects, read a > message or > > two but normally just delete the whole email > rather than > > waste my time on things that don't interest me. > > > > I have a very old and very dear friend back in New > Jersey > > who sends me literally every urban legend that > comes across > > his computer. I have reminded him many times > aabout the > > ability to check these things out himself. Doesn't > do any > > good. He also floods me with dozens of "Pass this > on to your > > closest 200 friends or a brick will fall out of > the sky into > > your lasagne and splash all over your petunias > type of > > message. I'd like to tell him to stop because I > NEVER pass > > them on. > > > > Then one day I realized that if I didn't receive > the junk I > > might not hear from him at all and that would > hurt. > > > > We've just gone through a very ugly situation with > one > > well-meaning individual posting something on the > list that > > had absolutely noting to do with any kind of > rockhounding, > > mineral identification or anything else that > should be > > posted here. The rest you know, insults, > obscenities, foul > > language, people, probably good people dropping > off, good > > people who may be "lurkers" like me or might be > > knowledgeable and be able to help others with a > fantastic, > > fun and enjoyable hobby, business, interest. > > > > I'm sorry. Wouldn't have the administrators jobs > for > > anything in the world. The frightening thing about > this wole > > thing is that for some it is their only chance at > the 15 > > minutes of fame Warhold told us we each had to > have. > > > > In a nutshell: Come on, get a life! Some of the > nicest > > people I have ever met have been rockhounds I have > met and > > shared with in the field, at shows and around the > world. > > Some of the ugliest people I have seen have been > on this > > list who seem to find their "only" pleasure in > insulting, > > degrading, defaming and then denying others the > right to be > > human. > > > > Good luck all, Kitty and the other administrators, > you have > > my prayers. Oh, I'm not leaving. I still know > where that > > delete button is albeit I will probably hit it a > bit more > > frequently, particularly when I see some people > posting > > responses. I will still post a question once in a > while, > > offer my services and information as a guide to my > area when > > possible and find new friends. And I will still > wonder what > > on earth some of you are here for if it is not to > "share" > > this great hobby instead of sniping at everyone > you can. > > > > As Tiny Tim said, "God bless us everyone." > > > > Kelly > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Oct 5 09:36:10 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Oct 5 09:36:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Is there an answer In-Reply-To: <4524f9ff.3d1.62f1.22069@iglide.net> Message-ID: > As Tiny Tim said, "God bless us everyone." Yes, but Tiny Tim he also sang "Tiptoeing through the tulips" which was very upsetting for the Dutch. If you remember Tiny Tim you must be give or take my age. Much older and you wouldn't remember him... much younger and you wouldn't know him ;-))) Axel From darren at offtherackpro.com Thu Oct 5 09:46:30 2006 From: darren at offtherackpro.com (Darren D'Agostino) Date: Thu Oct 5 09:46:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <641E9BA5-0672-4F0F-AE0F-899AED548EF1@offtherackpro.com> and now we're bogging down inboxes with more comments on what the admins do. :) anyway, my question was serious so I'll pose it again: Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have microscopic organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I mean feet+. I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't sure to what extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores in the rock or burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely found, what are the compositions of these rocks, and which part of the world is this most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of temperatures would be needed to reach the inner depths of these rocks to destroy such organisms. D From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Oct 5 09:56:00 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Oct 5 09:56:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms In-Reply-To: <641E9BA5-0672-4F0F-AE0F-899AED548EF1@offtherackpro.com> References: <641E9BA5-0672-4F0F-AE0F-899AED548EF1@offtherackpro.com> Message-ID: IIRC they've found microoranisms in rocks as far down as anyone has drilled. google: borehole microorganism and you'll get a lot of hits. This is part of Gold's theory on deep oil. BK On 10/5/06, Darren D'Agostino wrote: > > and now we're bogging down inboxes with more comments on what the > admins do. :) > > anyway, my question was serious so I'll pose it again: > > > Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have > microscopic organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I > mean feet+. I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't > sure to what extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores > in the rock or burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely > found, what are the compositions of these rocks, and which part of > the world is this most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of > temperatures would be needed to reach the inner depths of these rocks > to destroy such organisms. > > > D > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pnielsen at keene.edu Thu Oct 5 10:01:59 2006 From: pnielsen at keene.edu (Nielsen, Peter) Date: Thu Oct 5 10:02:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms Message-ID: Living micro-organisms have been found in the lowest level of gold mines in South Africa, and in several localities - I'm talking about thousands of feet below the surface in essentially solid rock. I don't have time now to provide a reference, but if reminded will try to do so in December, after our semester ends. Peter A. Nielsen Professor and Chair Department of Geology Keene State College MS2001 229 Main Street Keene, NH 03435-2001 Office 603.358.2553 fax 603.358.2897 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Darren D'Agostino Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:47 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms and now we're bogging down inboxes with more comments on what the admins do. :) anyway, my question was serious so I'll pose it again: Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have microscopic organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I mean feet+. I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't sure to what extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores in the rock or burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely found, what are the compositions of these rocks, and which part of the world is this most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of temperatures would be needed to reach the inner depths of these rocks to destroy such organisms. D -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Oct 5 10:14:11 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Oct 5 10:12:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms In-Reply-To: <641E9BA5-0672-4F0F-AE0F-899AED548EF1@offtherackpro.com> References: <641E9BA5-0672-4F0F-AE0F-899AED548EF1@offtherackpro.com> Message-ID: <45253D63.5020605@verizon.net> Look for a university near you that is hosting the Mineralogical Society of America Distinguished Lecturer this year. That is one of the topcis he presents; I just saw the talk here and it is excellent. Speaking of which I must go to class.... More later, Don Darren D'Agostino wrote: > and now we're bogging down inboxes with more comments on what the > admins do. :) > > anyway, my question was serious so I'll pose it again: > > > Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have microscopic > organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I mean feet+. > I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't sure to what > extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores in the rock or > burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely found, what are the > compositions of these rocks, and which part of the world is this most > prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of temperatures would be needed > to reach the inner depths of these rocks to destroy such organisms. > > > D From luka2 at telkomsa.net Thu Oct 5 10:22:16 2006 From: luka2 at telkomsa.net (Luka Berkovic) Date: Thu Oct 5 10:22:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms In-Reply-To: <45253D63.5020605@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000001c6e8a2$d046ba80$cc46ef9b@luka> Hi all I am new to this. Does anyone know were in Africa the best jap quartz is mined from -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: 05 October 2006 07:14 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms Look for a university near you that is hosting the Mineralogical Society of America Distinguished Lecturer this year. That is one of the topcis he presents; I just saw the talk here and it is excellent. Speaking of which I must go to class.... More later, Don Darren D'Agostino wrote: > and now we're bogging down inboxes with more comments on what the > admins do. :) > > anyway, my question was serious so I'll pose it again: > > > Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have microscopic > organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I mean feet+. > I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't sure to what > extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores in the rock or > burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely found, what are the > compositions of these rocks, and which part of the world is this most > prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of temperatures would be needed > to reach the inner depths of these rocks to destroy such organisms. > > > D -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From stu at arcrystalmine.com Thu Oct 5 10:30:51 2006 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (Stu Schmitt) Date: Thu Oct 5 10:31:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] black phantom quartz References: <100520061316.1267.452505C6000D2298000004F3215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <008101c6e8a4$069ef880$6500a8c0@STU2> Hi Scott, Some crystals with full phantoms, partial phantoms or phantom chevons are found in most all the crystal mines in Arkansas. We get some white or ghost phantoms in our Clear Creek Mine. The light gray, or bluish/black phantoms were initially thought to me caused by manganese inclusions but our State geologist, Mike Howard, now believes these are all caused by shale inclusions. Fisher mountain, Robins old blue phantom mine, and the Wegner mine were the most notable sources for black phantoms. Radiated crystals do not make phantoms but turn the whole surface black. The Colemans do a lot of radiation (in a dog food factory in the Dallas area) and use lower quality milky quartz crystals that have a good surface shine. With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Clear Creek Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From BNMJEFF at aol.com Thu Oct 5 11:00:36 2006 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 5 11:00:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Is there an answer Message-ID: <462.8d257e0.3256a244@aol.com> Sad to say Axel, I do remember him and his wedding on the Tonite show to Miss Vickie..... Jeff --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Oct 5 11:44:33 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Oct 5 11:44:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms In-Reply-To: References: <641E9BA5-0672-4F0F-AE0F-899AED548EF1@offtherackpro.com> Message-ID: Or better yet try: geomicrobiology There is even a journal devoted to the subject. BK On 10/5/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > IIRC they've found microoranisms in rocks as far down as anyone has > drilled. > > google: > > borehole microorganism > > and you'll get a lot of hits. This is part of Gold's theory on deep oil. > > BK > > > On 10/5/06, Darren D'Agostino wrote: > > > > and now we're bogging down inboxes with more comments on what the > > admins do. :) > > > > anyway, my question was serious so I'll pose it again: > > > > > > Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have > > microscopic organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I > > mean feet+. I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't > > sure to what extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores > > in the rock or burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely > > found, what are the compositions of these rocks, and which part of > > the world is this most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of > > temperatures would be needed to reach the inner depths of these rocks > > to destroy such organisms. > > > > > > D > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Thu Oct 5 11:52:44 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Oct 5 11:52:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Is there an answer In-Reply-To: <462.8d257e0.3256a244@aol.com> References: <462.8d257e0.3256a244@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061005084845.0392b948@mail.hawaiiantel.net> However, on a less bizarre (or falsetto) note, we should remember it was the original Tiny Tim from Dickens' "Christmas Carol," whom Kelly was quoting. Aloha, Kitty At 08:00 AM 10/5/2006, you wrote: >Sad to say Axel, I do remember him and his wedding on the Tonite show to >Miss Vickie..... > >Jeff From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Oct 5 13:45:02 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Oct 5 13:45:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Agate book Message-ID: <100520062045.26048.45256ECD000C6BC2000065C0216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear Rockhounds List, FYI, a new book, "Agates, Treasures of the Earth" has just been published. The author is Roger Pabian, along with Brian Jackson, Peter Tandy and John Cromartie. Roger Pabian, retired from the University of Nebraska and Nebraska Geological Survey, is well known for his writing and study of agates; see his web pages at, http://csd.unl.edu/agates/agatepageintro.asp A description and picture of the 184-page book can be seen online on p. 19 of the current (Spring-Summer 2006) issue of "Natural Resource Links" of the Univ. of Nebraska, School of Natural Resources: http://snrs.unl.edu/information/snrnewsletter.asp [The newsletter is a 24-page .pdf file, it may be slow to download.] The new book is an expanded version of the earlier 32-page, 1994 booklet, "Banded Agates, Origins and Inclusions", by Roger Pabian and Andrejs Zarins. >From Roger: "Copies are available for $35.00 postpaid. Nebraska residents add $2.45 sales tax. If you would like an autographed copy, please make your check payable to Lee Booksellers, but send it directly to me at 5301 "X" St., Lincoln NE 68504-3225. Orders going to the store directly are processed in a separate area and I do not see those." I've not seen it yet, but I'm sure this is an excellent book! Sincerely, Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Cycadwood at aol.com Thu Oct 5 13:56:31 2006 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 5 13:56:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Agate book Message-ID: In a message dated 10/5/2006 2:46:03 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, pjmodreski@att.net writes: Agates, Treasures of the Earth Also available on Amazon for $23.10. Weight 14 ounces. Size: 6 by 8. Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com_ (mailto:publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com) 970.242.5255 cell 970.216.9641 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and Cycads and Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From darren at offtherackpro.com Thu Oct 5 14:10:03 2006 From: darren at offtherackpro.com (Darren D'Agostino) Date: Thu Oct 5 14:10:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms In-Reply-To: References: <641E9BA5-0672-4F0F-AE0F-899AED548EF1@offtherackpro.com> Message-ID: Thanks for all the answers. I will try those searches. In regards to the bacteria found deep inside of mines, the bacteria were actually living thousands of feet deep in the rock? D On Oct 5, 2006, at 2:44 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Or better yet try: > > geomicrobiology > > There is even a journal devoted to the subject. > > BK > > > On 10/5/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> >> IIRC they've found microoranisms in rocks as far down as anyone has >> drilled. >> >> google: >> >> borehole microorganism >> >> and you'll get a lot of hits. This is part of Gold's theory on >> deep oil. >> >> BK >> >> >> On 10/5/06, Darren D'Agostino wrote: >> > >> > and now we're bogging down inboxes with more comments on what the >> > admins do. :) >> > >> > anyway, my question was serious so I'll pose it again: >> > >> > >> > Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have >> > microscopic organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I >> > mean feet+. I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but >> wasn't >> > sure to what extent they could get into one, how they get in >> (pores >> > in the rock or burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely >> > found, what are the compositions of these rocks, and which part of >> > the world is this most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of >> > temperatures would be needed to reach the inner depths of these >> rocks >> > to destroy such organisms. >> > >> > >> > D >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> J Bryan Kramer >> photos at: >> http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Oct 5 16:33:42 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Oct 5 16:27:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms References: <641E9BA5-0672-4F0F-AE0F-899AED548EF1@offtherackpro.com> Message-ID: <452594D1.677B@Tomaszewski.net> Darren, If you do a Google search on 'bacteria in deep rocks' you will find all kinds of research on the anaerobic, sulfate reducing, bacteria that live in the earth. They have been collected from drill holes going down kilometers. There are estimates that the weight of the bacteria living in rock outweighs all life on the surface of the planet. There is some evidence that the bacteria are responsible for the production of oil and natural gas. Kreigh Darren D'Agostino wrote: > Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have > microscopic organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I > mean feet+. I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't > sure to what extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores > in the rock or burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely > found, what are the compositions of these rocks, and which part of > the world is this most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of > temperatures would be needed to reach the inner depths of these rocks > to destroy such organisms. > > D From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Oct 5 16:39:07 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Oct 5 16:41:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms References: <641E9BA5-0672-4F0F-AE0F-899AED548EF1@offtherackpro.com> <452594D1.677B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001601c6e8d7$73af5180$c0089444@michael01> ever see that cheesy Ben Affleck movie called Phantoms? That was essentially the premise of the movie....these bacteria (that manifested themselves in the shape of a gooey, oil like substance) living deep underground in the earth, would occasionally come to the surface to feed (big appetities, as they would swallow hundreds of people, even whole cities, at a time) and would absorb the intelligence of what they ate. As a result...they achieved sentience (unlike Ben Affleck). as I said, pretty cheesy..... Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms > Darren, > > If you do a Google search on 'bacteria in deep rocks' you will find all > kinds of research on the anaerobic, sulfate reducing, bacteria that live > in the earth. They have been collected from drill holes going down > kilometers. There are estimates that the weight of the bacteria living > in rock outweighs all life on the surface of the planet. There is some > evidence that the bacteria are responsible for the production of oil and > natural gas. > > Kreigh > > > Darren D'Agostino wrote: >> Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have >> microscopic organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I >> mean feet+. I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't >> sure to what extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores >> in the rock or burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely >> found, what are the compositions of these rocks, and which part of >> the world is this most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of >> temperatures would be needed to reach the inner depths of these rocks >> to destroy such organisms. >> >> D > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Thu Oct 5 16:46:28 2006 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Thu Oct 5 16:46:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms In-Reply-To: <452594D1.677B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <007501c6e8d8$7b2fada0$c745450a@KayDesk> Another search would be in reference to "black smokers" also known as volcanic vents found in the ocean depths. Moth micro and macro life has been found and in rock specimens life has been found at incredible temperatures and pressures. Kay Darren D'Agostino wrote: > Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have microscopic > organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I mean feet+. > I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't sure to what > extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores in the rock or > burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely found, what are > the compositions of these rocks, and which part of the world is this > most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of temperatures would be > needed to reach the inner depths of these rocks to destroy such > organisms. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Oct 5 17:23:06 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Oct 5 17:16:40 2006 Subject: OT: Movies {was: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms} References: <641E9BA5-0672-4F0F-AE0F-899AED548EF1@offtherackpro.com> <452594D1.677B@Tomaszewski.net> <001601c6e8d7$73af5180$c0089444@michael01> Message-ID: <4525A05D.199D@Tomaszewski.net> So if/when the poles melt from global warming, will "The Blob" return? [That's a Tiny Tim era movie in case you don't remember it. BTW, Tiny Tim is still releasing records that sell.] Kreigh Michael Schmidt wrote: > > ever see that cheesy Ben Affleck movie called Phantoms? That was > essentially the premise of the movie....these bacteria (that manifested > themselves in the shape of a gooey, oil like substance) living deep > underground in the earth, would occasionally come to the surface to feed > (big appetities, as they would swallow hundreds of people, even whole > cities, at a time) and would absorb the intelligence of what they ate. As a > result...they achieved sentience (unlike Ben Affleck). > > as I said, pretty cheesy..... > > Michael > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 5:33 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms > > > Darren, > > > > If you do a Google search on 'bacteria in deep rocks' you will find all > > kinds of research on the anaerobic, sulfate reducing, bacteria that live > > in the earth. They have been collected from drill holes going down > > kilometers. There are estimates that the weight of the bacteria living > > in rock outweighs all life on the surface of the planet. There is some > > evidence that the bacteria are responsible for the production of oil and > > natural gas. > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > Darren D'Agostino wrote: > >> Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have > >> microscopic organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I > >> mean feet+. I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't > >> sure to what extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores > >> in the rock or burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely > >> found, what are the compositions of these rocks, and which part of > >> the world is this most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of > >> temperatures would be needed to reach the inner depths of these rocks > >> to destroy such organisms. > >> > >> D From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Oct 5 17:20:24 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Oct 5 17:21:13 2006 Subject: Movies {was: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms} References: <641E9BA5-0672-4F0F-AE0F-899AED548EF1@offtherackpro.com> <452594D1.677B@Tomaszewski.net> <001601c6e8d7$73af5180$c0089444@michael01> <4525A05D.199D@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002f01c6e8dd$37dbdc90$c0089444@michael01> already has returned...remake was made in the 1980"s..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 6:23 PM Subject: OT: Movies {was: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms} > So if/when the poles melt from global warming, will "The Blob" return? > > [That's a Tiny Tim era movie in case you don't remember it. BTW, Tiny > Tim is still releasing records that sell.] > > Kreigh > > > > Michael Schmidt wrote: >> >> ever see that cheesy Ben Affleck movie called Phantoms? That was >> essentially the premise of the movie....these bacteria (that manifested >> themselves in the shape of a gooey, oil like substance) living deep >> underground in the earth, would occasionally come to the surface to feed >> (big appetities, as they would swallow hundreds of people, even whole >> cities, at a time) and would absorb the intelligence of what they ate. >> As a >> result...they achieved sentience (unlike Ben Affleck). >> >> as I said, pretty cheesy..... >> >> Michael >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 5:33 PM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms >> >> > Darren, >> > >> > If you do a Google search on 'bacteria in deep rocks' you will find all >> > kinds of research on the anaerobic, sulfate reducing, bacteria that >> > live >> > in the earth. They have been collected from drill holes going down >> > kilometers. There are estimates that the weight of the bacteria living >> > in rock outweighs all life on the surface of the planet. There is some >> > evidence that the bacteria are responsible for the production of oil >> > and >> > natural gas. >> > >> > Kreigh >> > >> > >> > Darren D'Agostino wrote: >> >> Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have >> >> microscopic organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I >> >> mean feet+. I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't >> >> sure to what extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores >> >> in the rock or burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely >> >> found, what are the compositions of these rocks, and which part of >> >> the world is this most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of >> >> temperatures would be needed to reach the inner depths of these rocks >> >> to destroy such organisms. >> >> >> >> D > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From john.alcorn at verizon.net Thu Oct 5 18:10:37 2006 From: john.alcorn at verizon.net (john.alcorn@verizon.net) Date: Thu Oct 5 18:11:01 2006 Subject: OT: Movies {was: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms} Message-ID: <10143725.1408521160097037351.JavaMail.root@vms068.mailsrvcs.net> Tiny Tim had a cardiac in the late 90's...DOA. Axell had a funny response to a note I sent him. I hope he dosen't mind if I repeat it. >"From tiptoeing through the tulips to pushing up daisies... Now he plays the harp instead of the ukulele... what a waste ;-)))" On the subject of rocks. The desert season is almost upon us and we're looking forward to beating up on some rocks, and even finding a specimen or two. John >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >Date: 2006/10/05 Thu PM 07:23:06 CDT >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >Subject: OT: Movies {was: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms} >So if/when the poles melt from global warming, will "The Blob" return? > >[That's a Tiny Tim era movie in case you don't remember it. BTW, Tiny >Tim is still releasing records that sell.] > >Kreigh > > > >Michael Schmidt wrote: >> >> ever see that cheesy Ben Affleck movie called Phantoms? That was >> essentially the premise of the movie....these bacteria (that manifested >> themselves in the shape of a gooey, oil like substance) living deep >> underground in the earth, would occasionally come to the surface to feed >> (big appetities, as they would swallow hundreds of people, even whole >> cities, at a time) and would absorb the intelligence of what they ate. As a >> result...they achieved sentience (unlike Ben Affleck). >> >> as I said, pretty cheesy..... >> >> Michael >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 5:33 PM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms >> >> > Darren, >> > >> > If you do a Google search on 'bacteria in deep rocks' you will find all >> > kinds of research on the anaerobic, sulfate reducing, bacteria that live >> > in the earth. They have been collected from drill holes going down >> > kilometers. There are estimates that the weight of the bacteria living >> > in rock outweighs all life on the surface of the planet. There is some >> > evidence that the bacteria are responsible for the production of oil and >> > natural gas. >> > >> > Kreigh >> > >> > >> > Darren D'Agostino wrote: >> >> Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have >> >> microscopic organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I >> >> mean feet+. I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but wasn't >> >> sure to what extent they could get into one, how they get in (pores >> >> in the rock or burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely >> >> found, what are the compositions of these rocks, and which part of >> >> the world is this most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of >> >> temperatures would be needed to reach the inner depths of these rocks >> >> to destroy such organisms. >> >> >> >> D > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Oct 5 18:48:15 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Oct 5 18:48:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms Message-ID: <100620060148.19236.4525B5DD0004E33C00004B24216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Darren, Life is so ever-present near the Earth's surface, it's not surprising that microbes find there way down cracks and crannies into rocks deep down in the earth, and survive there. "They don't ask for much." Or, they were trapped down there millions (or billions?) of years ago, and are still around. Now, I really wouldn't expect to find microbes in fresh igneous rock, like granite, that cooled from molten magma, unless they have slipped in later, down those cracks and crannies. Pete P.S., this is pertinent too to your questions, an abstract of a paper just published in "GSA Today" by the Geological Society of America: doi: 10.1130/GSAT01610A.1 GSA Today: Vol. 16, No. 10, pp. 4–10. Microbes and volcanoes: A tale from the oceans, ophiolites, and greenstone belts Hubert Staudigel Scripps Institution of Oceanography, University of California, La Jolla, California 92093-0225, USA Harald Furnes Department of Earth Science, University of Bergen, Allegt.41, 5007, Bergen, Norway Neil R. Banerjee Department of Earth Sciences, University of Western Ontario, London, Ontario N6A 5B7, Canada Yildirim Dilek Department of Geology, 116 Shideler Hall, Miami University, Oxford, Ohio 45056, USA Karlis Muehlenbachs Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta T6G 2E3, Canada ABSTRACT Submarine volcanic glass alteration displays two easily discernable types of textures, one that is best interpreted as the result of an abiotic diffusive exchange process and another that involves microbial activity. Glass bioalteration textures dominate in the upper 300 m of the oceanic crust and have been found in nearly all ocean basins and in many ophiolites and greenstone belts back to 3.5 Ga. Bioalteration may involve a globally significant biomass and may influence geochemical fluxes from seafloor alteration. Glass bioalteration creates an entirely new discipline of research that involves microbiologists and volcanologists working in active volcanic systems and in the geologic record. Submarine volcanoes exposed on the ocean floor are studied along with ophiolites and greenstone belts to understand Earth not only as a physical and chemical heat engine but also as a bioreactor. Submitted: 27 January 2006 Manuscript Accepted 17 July 2006 -------------- Original message from "Darren D'Agostino" : -------------- > Thanks for all the answers. I will try those searches. > > In regards to the bacteria found deep inside of mines, the bacteria > were actually living thousands of feet deep in the rock? > > > D > > > > > On Oct 5, 2006, at 2:44 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > Or better yet try: > > > > geomicrobiology > > > > There is even a journal devoted to the subject. > > > > BK > > > > > > On 10/5/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >> > >> IIRC they've found microoranisms in rocks as far down as anyone has > >> drilled. > >> > >> google: > >> > >> borehole microorganism > >> > >> and you'll get a lot of hits. This is part of Gold's theory on > >> deep oil. > >> > >> BK > >> > >> > >> On 10/5/06, Darren D'Agostino wrote: > >> > > >> > and now we're bogging down inboxes with more comments on what the > >> > admins do. :) > >> > > >> > anyway, my question was serious so I'll pose it again: > >> > > >> > > >> > Does anyone know of any rocks that have been found to have > >> > microscopic organisms living deep inside of them? When I say deep I > >> > mean feet+. I've read about microscopic organisms in rocks but > >> wasn't > >> > sure to what extent they could get into one, how they get in > >> (pores > >> > in the rock or burrowing), which organisms are regularly or rarely > >> > found, what are the compositions of these rocks, and which part of > >> > the world is this most prevalent in? Added to that, what kinds of > >> > temperatures would be needed to reach the inner depths of these > >> rocks > >> > to destroy such organisms. > >> > > >> > > >> > D > >> > -- > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> > Subscription Services: > >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> > List Home Page: > >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Oct 5 19:16:18 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Oct 5 19:16:22 2006 Subject: Movies {was: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms} Message-ID: <100620060216.13075.4525BC71000CCB3C00003313216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I was going to ignore the "movie" thread, but I can't resist offering one comment. When I was a kid (this would be in the 50s) I saw a movie of this "genre" that I wonder if anybody else ever saw, or remembers? It was a ripoff on the "Blob" theme, and was British science fiction; it was called "X the Unknown". And it has a geo-theme, because this blobby type monster, came crawling out of (and back into) cracks in the Earth; instead of outer space, it came from somewhere "down there" (hey, yes, kind of like what Darren is talking about in the rest of this thread). It was white, unlike the Blob (tho yes, the blob was bluish-white before it started eating anybody) (well, "X" was just a black-and-white movie, so at least it always looked white) and kind of glowed I think, because it was radioactive too--"of course". I actually can't remember how they disposed of it, if they did. Anybody else seen it? (either the original movie... or... the creature, still crawling around?) Pete -------------- Original message from Michael Schmidt : -------------- > already has returned...remake was made in the 1980"s..... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 6:23 PM > Subject: OT: Movies {was: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms} > > > > So if/when the poles melt from global warming, will "The Blob" return? > > /index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From spocksrocks at hotmail.com Thu Oct 5 19:17:03 2006 From: spocksrocks at hotmail.com (Scotts Rock & Gem) Date: Thu Oct 5 19:17:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] black phantom quartz References: <100520061316.1267.452505C6000D2298000004F3215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <008101c6e8a4$069ef880$6500a8c0@STU2> Message-ID: Hi Folks: Thanks for the comments on the black phantom quartz. There were a couple hundred points in the lot, so it looks like someone hit a nice pocket. I had just never heard of this material coming out of Arkansas. I hadn't seen any being sold in Tucson, so I guess that's my best gauge on ready availability. Thanks again. Warm regards - Scott Blair From corson at infodyn.com Thu Oct 5 19:20:34 2006 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Thu Oct 5 19:23:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation Message-ID: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> Hi all, I would appreciate hearing from anyone regarding recommendations for the purchase of a digital camera for mineral photography. I will be using it primarily for photographing miniature thru cabinet size specimens for my computerized collection catalog as well as for posting photos of minerals for sale on various on-line auction sites. A friend recommended the Canon SD400, but I haven't a clue if this is a good choice or not. Any help would be greatly appreciated... Thanks in advance, Tom Corson --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Oct 5 19:29:54 2006 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Oct 5 19:29:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> Message-ID: <015a01c6e8ef$4f4138a0$6501a8c0@okapi> Nikon D70 with a macro. An SLR is the ONLY way to go. Trying to focus on the LCD screen on the back of a point-and-shoot is a pain. GcB PS. BTW, I just upgraded to a D80, so I've got a D70 to sell . > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tom Corson > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:21 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation > > Hi all, > > I would appreciate hearing from anyone regarding > recommendations for the purchase of a digital camera for > mineral photography. > > I will be using it primarily for photographing miniature thru > cabinet size specimens for my computerized collection catalog .... From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Oct 5 19:38:13 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Oct 5 19:38:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> References: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> Message-ID: Well you didn't mention your budget. I think that if you are going to do close up shots then you may want to think of a DSLR. That is what finally drove me to buying one. If you are taking close-ups of a flat object then a point and shoot will work, but on three dimensional objects you never know where the camera will decide to focus. Some P&S cameras have manual modes that in theory will let you adjust the focus but I never got satisfactory results. On a DSLR of course you are looking thru the lens and directly focusing. You can also get true macro lenses that allow 1:1 photos. Of course the problem with DSLRs is that the are expensive. $800 for a Canon Rebel XT for example. But you might get by with a Pentax *ist which I think is going for $500 or so, in the ball park of good P&S cameras but still expensive. BK On 10/5/06, Tom Corson wrote: > > Hi all, > > I would appreciate hearing from anyone regarding recommendations for the > purchase of a digital camera for mineral photography. > > I will be using it primarily for photographing miniature thru cabinet size > specimens for my computerized collection catalog as well as for posting > photos of minerals for sale on various on-line auction sites. > > A friend recommended the Canon SD400, but I haven't a clue if this is a > good > choice or not. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated... > > Thanks in advance, > Tom Corson > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Oct 5 19:41:37 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Oct 5 19:39:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> References: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> Message-ID: <4525C261.5070104@verizon.net> The first question would be then, how much do you want to spend? Check out the site: http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/ Then you can e-mail him and ask him what he uses. I forget what model it is, but you would be surprised that it is not a high-end camera, unless he has upgraded since I last spoke to him about his camera. The lighting you choose, and your skills as a photographer, are more important than the camera itself. Don't fall into the trap of Freudian craving for more megapixels--for these purposes, about 3.0 MP are more than enough. Megapixels equal more resolution but not a better overall photo, everything else being equal. You can get some very good deals on eBay. I got two Nikon CoolPix 5000's, lightly used with full kit, for less than 25% of their new price. That's all I have time for now, but this should get some discussion started in the right direction. HTH, Don Tom Corson wrote: > Hi all, > > I would appreciate hearing from anyone regarding recommendations for the > purchase of a digital camera for mineral photography. > > I will be using it primarily for photographing miniature thru cabinet size > specimens for my computerized collection catalog as well as for posting > photos of minerals for sale on various on-line auction sites. > > A friend recommended the Canon SD400, but I haven't a clue if this is a good > choice or not. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated... > > Thanks in advance, > Tom Corson > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Oct 5 19:55:00 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Oct 5 19:55:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation References: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> Message-ID: <00b201c6e8f2$d0e84350$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I use a Canon S45 (which has been replaced by later models). The small zoom lens allows me to photograph through a microscope eyepiece and it does fine with different size specimens. With thumbnails and miniatures, I can shoot with a higher resolution setting and then crop out the extra background retaining a good image size for the specimen. Bigger specimens can be shot using a lower resolution setting because the image doesn't need to be large. As long as you aren't trying to sell mineral posters, a simple camera fills the bill. I have posted over a thousand photos on mindat shot with my camera and will add another batch of images this winter when I will have more time indoors. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Corson" To: Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation > Hi all, > > I would appreciate hearing from anyone regarding recommendations for the > purchase of a digital camera for mineral photography. > > I will be using it primarily for photographing miniature thru cabinet size > specimens for my computerized collection catalog as well as for posting > photos of minerals for sale on various on-line auction sites. > > A friend recommended the Canon SD400, but I haven't a clue if this is a > good > choice or not. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated... > > Thanks in advance, > Tom Corson > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Thu Oct 5 20:16:44 2006 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Thu Oct 5 20:14:37 2006 Subject: Movies {was: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms} References: <100620060216.13075.4525BC71000CCB3C00003313216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <006c01c6e8f5$da883930$570ba118@feldsparflash> And I can't resist saying the movie, X-the Unknown stays in my memory as one of the most frightening science fiction movies I have ever seen. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:16 PM Subject: Re: Movies {was: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms} > I was going to ignore the "movie" thread, but I can't resist offering one comment. When I was a kid (this would be in the 50s) I saw a movie of this "genre" that I wonder if anybody else ever saw, or remembers? It was a ripoff on the "Blob" theme, and was British science fiction; it was called "X the Unknown". And it has a geo-theme, because this blobby type monster, came crawling out of (and back into) cracks in the Earth; instead of outer space, it came from somewhere "down there" (hey, yes, kind of like what Darren is talking about in the rest of this thread). It was white, unlike the Blob (tho yes, the blob was bluish-white before it started eating anybody) (well, "X" was just a black-and-white movie, so at least it always looked white) and kind of glowed I think, because it was radioactive too--"of course". > I actually can't remember how they disposed of it, if they did. Anybody else seen it? (either the original movie... or... the creature, still crawling around?) > > Pete > > > -------------- Original message from Michael Schmidt : -------------- > > > > already has returned...remake was made in the 1980"s..... > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 6:23 PM > > Subject: OT: Movies {was: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms} > > > > > > > So if/when the poles melt from global warming, will "The Blob" return? > > > > /index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Oct 5 20:29:47 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Oct 5 20:23:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation References: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> Message-ID: <4525CC05.6D58@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Tom, It has been too long. Thanks for starting this List! Good to see you are still around. Find a copy of the latest "Consumer Reports" 'special electronics edition' (I got mine in the mail a few days ago). They included digital cameras. You will get better close-up pictures from a digital SLR than a point-and-shoot. Remember that you can get lens-set adapers for most major camera (body) suppliers to preserve any investment in good optics. Take some specimens with you to a local camera store, and try before you buy. Kreigh Tom Corson wrote: > > Hi all, > > I would appreciate hearing from anyone regarding recommendations for the > purchase of a digital camera for mineral photography. > > I will be using it primarily for photographing miniature thru cabinet size > specimens for my computerized collection catalog as well as for posting > photos of minerals for sale on various on-line auction sites. > > A friend recommended the Canon SD400, but I haven't a clue if this is a good > choice or not. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated... > > Thanks in advance, > Tom Corson > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Oct 5 20:25:02 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Oct 5 20:25:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] galena crystals in hair dye Message-ID: I saw this article about nanotechnology, using galena crysals as hair color. I guess it worked pretty good. The hair is still around after 3,000 years. http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000C8282-7847-151D-B84783414B7F0000&ref=sciam&chanID=sa003 Grant From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Oct 5 20:40:06 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Oct 5 20:41:38 2006 Subject: Movies {was: Re: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms} References: <100620060216.13075.4525BC71000CCB3C00003313216038311607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <006c01c6e8f5$da883930$570ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <016101c6e8f9$2cd97f70$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> I remember both.....one of them was disposed of by freezing with CO2 fire extinguishers I think... also one of my first scary movies. BTW, the Blob was Michael Landon's debut movie. Jeanette >> I actually can't remember how they disposed of it, if they did. Anybody > else seen it? (either the original movie... or... the creature, still > crawling around?) >> >> Pete >>And I can't resist saying the movie, X-the Unknown stays in my memory as >>one of the most frightening science fiction movies I have ever seen. From tjokela at execulink.com Thu Oct 5 22:09:14 2006 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu Oct 5 22:09:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation References: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> <4525C261.5070104@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001401c6e905$915eb850$6400a8c0@Junior> I'm happy with my Canon Digital Rebel. New version is the XT or whatever. Bear in mind that with high-end cameras you're buying a camera body. Lenses are extra.... a lot extra. Good macro lenses run 500-2k or so? And you'll want a tripod, memory card, card reader, case; starts to add up real fast. If you just want a good, basic image to document the specimen, no point going nuts and dropping four figures whatsoever. You don't need fabulous lenses or 10 megapixels whatsoever; even 1 megapixel is probably enough, and a point and shoot that can get in nice and close will probably work fine. There are some superb digicam review websites out there, google them out. Do your homework. Personally I wouldn't buy one online, I buy local. Buying electronics from someplace like eBay... I don't think so. Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com From corson at infodyn.com Thu Oct 5 22:56:07 2006 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Thu Oct 5 22:56:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] bacteria, microorganisms Message-ID: <000001c6e90c$1e734cf0$640fa8c0@Grimble> I've recently had an interesting story related to me on this topic. A few weeks back I had the good fortune to tour and collect at the Ray mine with the TGMS. The tour was lead by the head geologist there. One of the things he told us about was in reference to microorganism involvement with the formation of the native copper occurring there. He recounted how he took several bags of native copper specimens home and set them in his garage. On night some time thereafter he went into the garage and found that the bags were glowing! The microorganisms in the copper specimens were phosphorescent/luminescent! Pretty amazing story. If anyone out there knows more of this phenomenon I love to hear about it.... TC PS: Came back from the trip with a huge native copper specimen (approx 12x10 inch) and literally a cooler full of chrysocolla, much of it gemmy. Life is good.... :-) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From corson at infodyn.com Thu Oct 5 23:26:28 2006 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Thu Oct 5 23:28:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <015a01c6e8ef$4f4138a0$6501a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <000801c6e910$5be5c050$640fa8c0@Grimble> Just did an eBay search in the D70. Yikes!!!! I don't want to spend more than say $350 or so on this project. Any other ideas??? TC -----Original Message----- From: Gary Brown [mailto:gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:30 PM To: corson@infodyn.com; 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation Nikon D70 with a macro. An SLR is the ONLY way to go. Trying to focus on the LCD screen on the back of a point-and-shoot is a pain. GcB PS. BTW, I just upgraded to a D80, so I've got a D70 to sell . > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tom Corson > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:21 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation > > Hi all, > > I would appreciate hearing from anyone regarding recommendations for > the purchase of a digital camera for mineral photography. > > I will be using it primarily for photographing miniature thru cabinet > size specimens for my computerized collection catalog .... From corson at infodyn.com Thu Oct 5 23:36:45 2006 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Thu Oct 5 23:38:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <4525CC05.6D58@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000e01c6e911$cb3d35e0$640fa8c0@Grimble> Kreigh, Yes, it has been too long, but I'm definitely back. Living in Tucson now! I'm in hog (and mineralogical) heaven! 'Tis nice to be remembered...and thanks for the kind words. I've been thrilled to see how the list has flourished over the years - it's been a very satisfying thing to see. And a special note of thanks to all the "caretakers" of it as well! Thanks for the camera tips. It sounds like I have my work cut out for me. I know very little about cameras, but it looks like I'm about to learn... Best regards, TC -----Original Message----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski [mailto:Kreigh@Tomaszewski.net] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:30 PM To: corson@infodyn.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation Hi Tom, It has been too long. Thanks for starting this List! Good to see you are still around. Find a copy of the latest "Consumer Reports" 'special electronics edition' (I got mine in the mail a few days ago). They included digital cameras. You will get better close-up pictures from a digital SLR than a point-and-shoot. Remember that you can get lens-set adapers for most major camera (body) suppliers to preserve any investment in good optics. Take some specimens with you to a local camera store, and try before you buy. Kreigh Tom Corson wrote: > > Hi all, > > I would appreciate hearing from anyone regarding recommendations for > the purchase of a digital camera for mineral photography. > > I will be using it primarily for photographing miniature thru cabinet > size specimens for my computerized collection catalog as well as for > posting photos of minerals for sale on various on-line auction sites. > > A friend recommended the Canon SD400, but I haven't a clue if this is > a good choice or not. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated... > > Thanks in advance, > Tom Corson > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From corson at infodyn.com Thu Oct 5 23:41:32 2006 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Thu Oct 5 23:43:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <4525C261.5070104@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000f01c6e912$75f5bd40$640fa8c0@Grimble> Thanks Don! John Betts' site does have some great info on this subject: http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/jhbnyc/articles/photo.htm Thanx, TC -----Original Message----- From: DonH [mailto:donhalterman@verizon.net] Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:42 PM To: corson@infodyn.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation The first question would be then, how much do you want to spend? Check out the site: http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/ Then you can e-mail him and ask him what he uses. I forget what model it is, but you would be surprised that it is not a high-end camera, unless he has upgraded since I last spoke to him about his camera. The lighting you choose, and your skills as a photographer, are more important than the camera itself. Don't fall into the trap of Freudian craving for more megapixels--for these purposes, about 3.0 MP are more than enough. Megapixels equal more resolution but not a better overall photo, everything else being equal. You can get some very good deals on eBay. I got two Nikon CoolPix 5000's, lightly used with full kit, for less than 25% of their new price. That's all I have time for now, but this should get some discussion started in the right direction. HTH, Don Tom Corson wrote: > Hi all, > > I would appreciate hearing from anyone regarding recommendations for the > purchase of a digital camera for mineral photography. > > I will be using it primarily for photographing miniature thru cabinet size > specimens for my computerized collection catalog as well as for posting > photos of minerals for sale on various on-line auction sites. > > A friend recommended the Canon SD400, but I haven't a clue if this is a good > choice or not. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated... > > Thanks in advance, > Tom Corson > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- From darren at offtherackpro.com Fri Oct 6 01:29:31 2006 From: darren at offtherackpro.com (Darren D'Agostino) Date: Fri Oct 6 01:29:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <000f01c6e912$75f5bd40$640fa8c0@Grimble> References: <000f01c6e912$75f5bd40$640fa8c0@Grimble> Message-ID: <4170B18A-18F3-4E72-A4CD-0CEF09097608@offtherackpro.com> If you don't want to spend more than $350 on a camera then don't expect amazing results. As mentioned by others, an SLR camera body is ideal, and for the detail you want to capture in your rocks, a macro lens would be the way to go as it is made for photographing small objects and detail. Medium format cameras also will give you more detail as they use larger film (or in the case of digital) they have more sensors. Large format is the highest detail but very expensive and they also have extra moving parts you can adjust and are not for a novice. The problem with consumer cameras, or consumer digital cameras even if they have a decent number of megapixels, is that they don't allow you to adjust Fstops and Shutter Speeds, they don't have great lenses, they only have autofocus, and they don't allow you to change lenses, usually they just have those retractible ones. They also use square pixels, which are then compressed in some digital codec, whereas film uses silver halide, so film will NEVER produce a hard edge, even in the most crystal clear photographs. Consumer cameras are also not made for photographing detail in small objects like a macro lens is, so you end up not being able to focus the camera when you zoom in too much or place it too close to a small subject. If you did have money, another method would be to get a 35mm SLR camera with a digital back. A digital back allows you to capture digital pictures from a film cam. For your budget though, that would be out of the question as a digital back would cost more then your whole budget most likely. I am an artist, I work in visual FX and have gained a lot of knowledge about cameras and lenses. It is NOT a myth about high end cameras, BUT it is true that it comes down to the artist's skill. However, you must be aware that with cheap equipment you do have limitations over high-end equipment. Nikons are very good for their price as the lenses are made with very good glass, so you could probably get a D70 like mentioned and get a good lens for it and get amazing results. You can try ebay but you need to be careful because lenses/cams are sensitive equipment. A simple scratch on a lens and it is ruined permanently, or if it has been dropped the internal mechanisms of the lens could be damaged or out of alignment and you wouldn't be able to tell from a photograph. So make sure you have some type of guarantee or refund option if you purchase from a place like ebay. Lighting is also very important as it will help catch highlights, especially on rocks. Too little light and the photo will be dark or blur from the amount of time the shutter stays open because of hand movements. A tripod with a firing mechanism would help solve that. A great way of getting detail is to use a very slow shutter speed, and a high Fstop, as that would expose the film over a longer period of time, and in that case you would need a tripod and a firing mechanism for hands free shooting. High fstops have the drawback of only retaining a limited depth of field but for your needs it would work nicely. btw, fstop relates to the iris in the lens and how much light you are letting into the camera. Before you make a purchase it would be wise to do some research online about cameras and lenses, take everything into account before you shell out your hard earned cash. Skill is going to help you but you will have limitations given your budget so make your decision wisely. The good thing about getting an SLR, or SLR-like digital, is that you can change lenses, which means that you can keep upgrading your camera. In a case like this, purchasing a good camera body is the most important. Anyway, I've written a chapter, so I'll end it here for now, but that's a brief overview for ya from my experience. :) D On Oct 6, 2006, at 2:41 AM, Tom Corson wrote: > Thanks Don! John Betts' site does have some great info on this > subject: > > http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/jhbnyc/articles/photo.htm > > Thanx, > TC > > -----Original Message----- > From: DonH [mailto:donhalterman@verizon.net] > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:42 PM > To: corson@infodyn.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and > gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation > > > The first question would be then, how much do you want to spend? > Check out > the site: http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com/ > > Then you can e-mail him and ask him what he uses. I forget what > model it > is, but you would be surprised that it is not a high-end camera, > unless he > has upgraded since I last spoke to him about his camera. The > lighting you > choose, and your skills as a photographer, are more important than the > camera itself. Don't fall into the trap of Freudian craving for more > megapixels--for these purposes, about 3.0 MP are more than enough. > Megapixels equal more resolution but not a better overall photo, > everything > else being equal. > > You can get some very good deals on eBay. I got two Nikon CoolPix > 5000's, > lightly used with full kit, for less than 25% of their new price. > > That's all I have time for now, but this should get some discussion > started > in the right direction. > > > HTH, > Don > > > Tom Corson wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I would appreciate hearing from anyone regarding recommendations >> for the >> purchase of a digital camera for mineral photography. >> >> I will be using it primarily for photographing miniature thru >> cabinet size >> specimens for my computerized collection catalog as well as for >> posting >> photos of minerals for sale on various on-line auction sites. >> >> A friend recommended the Canon SD400, but I haven't a clue if this >> is a > good >> choice or not. >> >> Any help would be greatly appreciated... >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Tom Corson >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gene at fossilnut.com Fri Oct 6 04:33:44 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Fri Oct 6 04:33:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation References: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> Message-ID: <004b01c6e93b$4a2d41a0$6400a8c0@hppav> A lot has transpired since the last time we reviewed this one, so maybe it is worth covering again. The biggest question is what do you want ot shoot (cabinet to micro?), and for what purpose (Personal to Publication)? The second is how much can you afford to spend? Today you can purchase a "starter level' digital SLR for from $700 to $1000 that will give you essentially the same capabilities as the old film SLR's with even greater flexibility. Because you can compose, focus and shoot pictures through the lens, using manual lens control, as well as automatic control, you have the ability to shoot essentially anything.... if you have the right lens. And of course you can change the lenses. Furthermore, you can use the camera body with a microscope if you have an adapter. My personal recommendation is to seriously consider the SLR option since that affords you the opportunity to add lenses and change bodies over time. I'm personally a fan of Canon. But that is primarily because I had a later model Canon film SLR and the lenses from this one fit the new Canon Digital Rebel. I also have a family member who works for Canon so I get good deals on their cameras. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Corson" To: Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation > Hi all, > > I would appreciate hearing from anyone regarding recommendations for the > purchase of a digital camera for mineral photography. > > I will be using it primarily for photographing miniature thru cabinet size > specimens for my computerized collection catalog as well as for posting > photos of minerals for sale on various on-line auction sites. > > A friend recommended the Canon SD400, but I haven't a clue if this is a > good > choice or not. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated... > > Thanks in advance, > Tom Corson > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From dr00bert at gmail.com Fri Oct 6 04:39:49 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Fri Oct 6 04:39:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <000801c6e910$5be5c050$640fa8c0@Grimble> References: <015a01c6e8ef$4f4138a0$6501a8c0@okapi> <000801c6e910$5be5c050$640fa8c0@Grimble> Message-ID: <7aac8040610060439t295a775dj749dbfb3fe06c84c@mail.gmail.com> DSLRs are more expensive, but the flexibility is unmatched. When you are dealing with DSLR type cameras, the initial investment is in the camera body, but the more important (and longer term) investment is in the glass. As everyone else has said, the photographer has more to do with quality than the camera does. Check out http://www.dpreview.com, there you can check out a really extensive forum for all different brands, even forums for different models. You can also take a look at their very detailed reviews and find what is in your budget. I guess the main thing is, if you spend $350 on a camera today, and a year down the road you are unhappy with it for mineral photos (granted, you can always use it for anything else), than it will cost you more in the long run. Pick one that will do the job, even if you have to splurge a little more than you have budgeted, because in the long run it will save you money. Drew On 10/6/06, Tom Corson wrote: > > Just did an eBay search in the D70. Yikes!!!! > > I don't want to spend more than say $350 or so on this project. Any other > ideas??? > > TC > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Brown [mailto:gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:30 PM > To: corson@infodyn.com; 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and > gem collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation > > Nikon D70 with a macro. An SLR is the ONLY way to go. Trying to focus > on > the LCD screen on the back of a point-and-shoot is a pain. > > GcB > > PS. BTW, I just upgraded to a D80, so I've got a D70 to sell . > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tom Corson > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:21 PM > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation > > > > Hi all, > > > > I would appreciate hearing from anyone regarding recommendations for > > the purchase of a digital camera for mineral photography. > > > > I will be using it primarily for photographing miniature thru cabinet > > size specimens for my computerized collection catalog .... > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Oct 6 04:56:03 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Oct 6 04:56:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <001401c6e905$915eb850$6400a8c0@Junior> References: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> <4525C261.5070104@verizon.net> <001401c6e905$915eb850$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: Actually the Sigma Macro lenses are great and you can get the 50mm for $250 or so. Longer Macros are good for chasing critters since you have a longer minimum focus distance. But you don't have to chase rocks across a meadow so a 50mm works well. The new Canon is the XTi BK On 10/6/06, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > I'm happy with my Canon Digital Rebel. New version is the XT or whatever. > Bear in mind that with high-end cameras you're buying a camera body. > Lenses > are extra.... a lot extra. Good macro lenses run 500-2k or so? And you'll > want a tripod, memory card, card reader, case; starts to add up real fast. > > If you just want a good, basic image to document the specimen, no point > going nuts and dropping four figures whatsoever. You don't need fabulous > lenses or 10 megapixels whatsoever; even 1 megapixel is probably enough, > and > a point and shoot that can get in nice and close will probably work fine. > > There are some superb digicam review websites out there, google them out. > Do > your homework. Personally I wouldn't buy one online, I buy local. Buying > electronics from someplace like eBay... I don't think so. > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Oct 6 05:17:26 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Oct 6 05:17:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <4170B18A-18F3-4E72-A4CD-0CEF09097608@offtherackpro.com> References: <000f01c6e912$75f5bd40$640fa8c0@Grimble> <4170B18A-18F3-4E72-A4CD-0CEF09097608@offtherackpro.com> Message-ID: I'm very involved in photography. You can get P&S cameras that allow you to adjust the shutter speed and aperture. The Canon A series is one example, I think they are up to the A610 or thereabouts. And P&S cameras can produce good photos. If you want close-up shots then think DSLR but if you just want shots of rocks from a bit further out then a P&S will work just fine. 5 MP will produce fairly good 8X10 prints. The major problem with P&S cameras is the tiny sensor size, the smaller the sensor the worse the noise level. Also the lens optics don't allow small f/stops which means you'll have problems getting everything in focus on close-ups. Medium format digital cameras start around $15000-20000 and go up rapidly from there, and that's without a lens. Digital backs for SLRs have gone the way of the Dodo so far as I know, and large format digital starts around $75000. So I think those suggestions are probably out of most peoples price ranges. As for used equipment, the rule is to sell on Ebay and to buy from KEH.com. KEH sells used gear that they have inspected and graded. I've bought several items from them and all have been in excellent condition. I might hesitate to buy a body since camera shutters have a expected life and I wouldn't want to buy a body with 45000 shots on it when the shutter is expected to last for 50000 shots. But if you can determine how many shots are on the body (service centers can read the shot counter) that might be a possible way to go. Canon has about 55% of the DSLR market followed by Nikon at 25% or so, Olympus is next followed by everyone else. Canon or Nikon are the safe bets for DSLR, both make fine cameras tho Canon has a slight edge. BK On 10/6/06, Darren D'Agostino wrote: > > > if they have a decent number of megapixels, is that they don't allow > you to adjust Fstops and Shutter Speeds, they don't have great > lenses, they only have autofocus, and they don't allow you to change > lenses, usually they just have those retractible ones. They also use > square pixels, which are then compressed in some digital codec, > whereas film uses silver halide, so film will NEVER produce a hard > edge, even in the most crystal clear photographs. Consumer cameras > are also not made for photographing detail in small objects like a > macro lens is, so you end up not being able to focus the camera when > you zoom in too much or place it too close to a small subject. > > If you did have money, another method would be to get a 35mm SLR > camera with a digital back. A digital back allows you to capture > digital pictures from a film cam. For your budget though, that would > be out of the question as a digital back would cost more then your > whole budget most likely. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From darren at offtherackpro.com Fri Oct 6 06:07:04 2006 From: darren at offtherackpro.com (Darren D'Agostino) Date: Fri Oct 6 06:07:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: References: <000f01c6e912$75f5bd40$640fa8c0@Grimble> <4170B18A-18F3-4E72-A4CD-0CEF09097608@offtherackpro.com> Message-ID: <08DF03AC-238A-4A93-B893-EBE0CB5B9840@offtherackpro.com> Well in high-end work I have seen digital backs used quite frequently, so saying they are extinct is a bit misleading. Of course I'm speaking from high end circles/ film production, and know of several people who use older medium format hasselblad cameras with digital backs. It still will come down to your budget and how flexible a camera you want. If you plan on only shooting close-up still life then configure your camera based on that, but like others have said, getting a camera you can interchange lenses with is ideal. Personally I hate how digital images look, even HD video and HD film (movie) cameras , and I work with digital effects. There is something about film grain that just makes me smile :) It gives you a different feel than pixels do and there is no compression involved, and all the compositing magic at ILM still can't get that film look from images captured by way of sensors, the technology just isn't there yet. Film is also much more sensitive in the bright areas of an image. I am however looking at it from an artistic standpoint. If you only wish to take pictures of rocks for cataloguing purposes, then a digital SLR will probably be the best bang for your buck, but you still should get familiar with how cameras work or the pictures won't be as nice. D On Oct 6, 2006, at 8:17 AM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > I'm very involved in photography. You can get P&S cameras that > allow you to > adjust the shutter speed and aperture. The Canon A series is one > example, I > think they are up to the A610 or thereabouts. > > And P&S cameras can produce good photos. If you want close-up > shots then > think DSLR but if you just want shots of rocks from a bit further > out then a > P&S will work just fine. 5 MP will produce fairly good 8X10 prints. > > The major problem with P&S cameras is the tiny sensor size, the > smaller the > sensor the worse the noise level. Also the lens optics don't allow > small > f/stops which means you'll have problems getting everything in > focus on > close-ups. > > Medium format digital cameras start around $15000-20000 and go up > rapidly > from there, and that's without a lens. Digital backs for SLRs have > gone the > way of the Dodo so far as I know, and large format digital starts > around > $75000. So I think those suggestions are probably out of most > peoples price > ranges. > > As for used equipment, the rule is to sell on Ebay and to buy from > KEH.com. > KEH sells used gear that they have inspected and graded. I've > bought several > items from them and all have been in excellent condition. I might > hesitate > to buy a body since camera shutters have a expected life and I > wouldn't want > to buy a body with 45000 shots on it when the shutter is expected > to last > for 50000 shots. But if you can determine how many shots are on the > body > (service centers can read the shot counter) that might be a > possible way to > go. > > Canon has about 55% of the DSLR market followed by Nikon at 25% or so, > Olympus is next followed by everyone else. Canon or Nikon are the > safe bets > for DSLR, both make fine cameras tho Canon has a slight edge. > > BK > > On 10/6/06, Darren D'Agostino wrote: >> >> >> if they have a decent number of megapixels, is that they don't allow >> you to adjust Fstops and Shutter Speeds, they don't have great >> lenses, they only have autofocus, and they don't allow you to change >> lenses, usually they just have those retractible ones. They also use >> square pixels, which are then compressed in some digital codec, >> whereas film uses silver halide, so film will NEVER produce a hard >> edge, even in the most crystal clear photographs. Consumer cameras >> are also not made for photographing detail in small objects like a >> macro lens is, so you end up not being able to focus the camera when >> you zoom in too much or place it too close to a small subject. >> >> If you did have money, another method would be to get a 35mm SLR >> camera with a digital back. A digital back allows you to capture >> digital pictures from a film cam. For your budget though, that would >> be out of the question as a digital back would cost more then your >> whole budget most likely. >> >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Oct 6 07:18:26 2006 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Oct 6 07:18:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <004b01c6e93b$4a2d41a0$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: <001001c6e952$4a73f020$6501a8c0@okapi> When I went to the DSLR after being in the consumer camera purgatory for 5 years I felt like I'd finally punched through to heaven! The D70 has a little dial with: P = Programmed ("waiter mode") S = Shutter priority A = Aperture priority M = Full Manual With an adjustable ISO equivalent of 200 to 1600 you can pretty much get anything you want. It took me about a month before I finally got back into my old film-days routine of getting an exposure and the fiddling it with the "M" setting. Besides the camera, for macro, you need A GOOD TRIPOD. With a DSLR, tripod, and either a remote shutter cable or using the self-timer (self timer... What a misnomer. Like the camera turns its own timer on??), you will be able to get pretty much the picture you were looking for. GcB PS. "waiter mode" as in "Waiter... Could you just point the camera at us and push the little button?" From geenet2 at mchsi.com Fri Oct 6 08:03:50 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (geenet2@mchsi.com) Date: Fri Oct 6 08:03:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Movies with weird things coming out of the earth. Message-ID: <100620061503.16011.45267055000E259500003E8B219792474103010CD2079C080C03BFCD9B0A020A0A09@mchsi.com> I stand corrected...Steve McQueen was in "The Blob" and Michael Landon was a teenage werewolf. > I remember both.....one of them was disposed of by freezing with CO2 fire > extinguishers I think... > also one of my first scary movies. BTW, the Blob was Michael Landon's debut > movie. > Jeanette > From pjmodreski at att.net Fri Oct 6 08:35:53 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Fri Oct 6 08:35:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Movies with weird things coming out of the earth. Message-ID: <100620061535.15555.452677D8000DC6C800003CC3216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Aha, I wondered about Michael Landon, him being the werewolf more rings a bell. And I appreciated Eman's copy of the movie review, so now I'm corrected, that "X" was not an imitation of the The Blob, maybe it was vice versa! I always remember the opening scene of "X the Unknown", because it is, very close to things I have done as part of my geological & mineral work! A team of British soldiers is training in a field, locating buried radioactive sources by walking back & forth with geiger counters. I've done very similar things, searching the ground for radioactive minerals from pegmatites (using a scintillometer usually). One of the soldiers stops at a place where he's getting a high reading, but the fellow in charge is telling him, what's wrong with him, that's not the place where he's supposed to find anything. Then suddenly there's a "kaboom" and a blast of radioactive steam bursts out of the ground, felling the soldier. I don't think the monster appears yet at that point, that's just its calling card. I guess I should some day find a copy and watch it again! cheers, to my quite off-topic audience, Pete -------------- Original message from geenet2@mchsi.com: -------------- > I stand corrected...Steve McQueen was in "The Blob" and Michael Landon was a > teenage werewolf. > > > > I remember both.....one of them was disposed of by freezing with CO2 fire > > extinguishers I think... > > also one of my first scary movies. BTW, the Blob was Michael Landon's debut > > movie. > > Jeanette > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Fri Oct 6 08:36:17 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Fri Oct 6 08:36:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Camera recommendation Message-ID: <4370692d655b60aa3e49d2bebcd13ebb@comcast.net> A couple of years ago the list helped me pick out a GPS device. In searching for the best price I found this outfit. They have everything electronic and a wide range of cameras. I have not found better prices on new items with guarantees. I just want to pass it on to those who don't want eBay uncertainties. http://www.compuplus.com/?sid=m4x233fm32mzwsv PS; how about adopting an unnecessary roughness penalty for list flaming? 2 weeks filtered from sending or receiving for first offense. 2 months for second. Banned with recommendation to seek counseling for third. From JHODEL at wvdep.org Fri Oct 6 09:03:43 2006 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Fri Oct 6 09:03:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing Message-ID: Hi: The web site DPReview has comprehensive reviews of digital cameras going way back, and up to pre-production cameras not for sale yet. They seem to do a real good job. I used the site to select my first digital camera, a Nikon CoolPix 4500. I still have it, it's a 4 Mpixel sensor, and the lens can focus down to about 1.25 CM. Really close. I have been told that it is a favorite pick for microscope users, as the lens diameter fits the ocular tubes of most quality microscopes, I wouldn't know. I have successfully taken multi-second close-up pix of moderately fluorescent crystals using the time delay exposure (3-second delay to allow the camera/tripod to become motionless after pressing the shutter button). You can control aperture, shutter speed, focus and ISO sensitivity manually, although some of these adjustments aren't instant, when your subject is a rock just lying there, timing isn't important. I don't think Nikon makes these any more, but eBay is your friend. A friend recently bought a Panasonic Lumix, which has a lens by Leica, probably the best lens maker in the world, and it seems to be a little easier to use than the Coolpix. Some of Sony's high-end cameras use Carl Zeiss lenses, maybe the only lens maker that can compete with Leica. These are not all marco-capable, tho, so look up minimum focus distance before going for one of these. Lastly, I recently bought a Nikon D70s, with a kit zoom(17-70mm) AND a 60mm Nikor Micro lens. This puppy is the real deal, Stan! I splurged, I indulged myself, I bought a tele-extender yesterday for wildlife photography. It's a little harder to use than the point-and-shoot cameras, but you can actually make the posters from your rocks if you want to. It isn't 8 or 10 or 12 MPixel, but the lens and other components are of such quality the resolution of the sensor isn't as much of a limit as you might expect. I really love photography, right up there with rocks and nature, so I finally got the tool I've always wanted. Well, really, I'd like one of those 20MPixel Hassleblads, but they cost more than my car! And then you need lenses! That's my take on cameras. And I thought the Blob was pretty scary too, I was probably 12 and watched it on late night TV at my Grandma's house, with cokes and popcorn. Thriller Theater, with the host rising up from a cardboard coffin...he was Mr Cartoon in the afternoon, and whoever the host of Thriller Theater was supposed to be the corpse of at midnight. And I always thought it was such a shame that Tiny Tim and his wife (what was her name...Miss Vicky) didn't work out...Axel, surely if you tiptoe you won't really hurt the pretty tulips! KoR! JR in WV --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Fri Oct 6 10:00:29 2006 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Fri Oct 6 10:00:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> References: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> Message-ID: <20061006140029.n88ltim3kfxcokg4@my6.dal.ca> Tom, I have a Nikon Coolpix 5400. It was a higher end non-SLR at the time. It is 5 megapixel, 8X optical zoom, and has full auto, partial manual, and full manual modes. I love it. It was expensive at the time, but similar/better cameras from other manufacturers are available now in your price range. I like shooting TNs and miniatures and the optical zoom is very important to me. Also important is the manual aperture that I can use to increase the depth of focus. Some examples are: http://nsminerals.atspace.com/images.html Most are with the camera, but some are microscope shots with another system. I have many better shots now, but have not added them to the site. Another poster mentioned practice/experience/technique, and I would agree this is very important for whatever camera you buy. Also consider getting a used camera. I got mine only a few months old for half the new price. Lots of people are upgrading - especially now to SLRs. Yes, they are great, but for your budget and intended use - i.e. pics on the web - not necessary. Happy Collecting, Ronnie Van Dommelen From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 6 11:18:51 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Oct 6 11:18:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation References: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> <20061006140029.n88ltim3kfxcokg4@my6.dal.ca> Message-ID: <001a01c6e973$e09bde20$a59d2a4b@LarryRush> Ronnie: Those are excellent photos! I am using a relatively cheap Kodak Z740, with a macro lens, and I hope, with practice, I can come close to your proficiency! Nice work! Larry ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ronnie Van Dommelen" To: Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation > Tom, > > I have a Nikon Coolpix 5400. It was a higher end non-SLR at the time. It > is 5 > megapixel, 8X optical zoom, and has full auto, partial manual, and full > manual > modes. I love it. It was expensive at the time, but similar/better > cameras > from other manufacturers are available now in your price range. I like > shooting TNs and miniatures and the optical zoom is very important to me. > Also > important is the manual aperture that I can use to increase the depth of > focus. > > Some examples are: http://nsminerals.atspace.com/images.html > Most are with the camera, but some are microscope shots with another > system. I > have many better shots now, but have not added them to the site. Another > poster mentioned practice/experience/technique, and I would agree this is > very > important for whatever camera you buy. > > Also consider getting a used camera. I got mine only a few months old for > half > the new price. Lots of people are upgrading - especially now to SLRs. > Yes, > they are great, but for your budget and intended use - i.e. pics on the > web - > not necessary. > > Happy Collecting, > Ronnie Van Dommelen > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From johnjold at comcast.net Fri Oct 6 11:56:01 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Fri Oct 6 11:56:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] First complete plesiosaur Message-ID: <986ce91625f67f044467979cee9ef684@comcast.net> New fossils from Norway. From todays Toronto Globe and Mail. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/ RTGAM.20061005.wnorwayreptile1005/BNStory/Science/? cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Oct 6 14:27:38 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Oct 6 14:27:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I use a 4500 too! Pretty good cam, even for fluorescence photography. The D70 is worthless under UV I'm told. Tiptoing through the soft dirt of a tulip field is a bad idea if you weigh 200+ pounds... Take two steps and you're knee-deep in it ;-))) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J.R. Hodel > Verzonden: vrijdag 6 oktober 2006 17:04 > Aan: corson@infodyn.com > CC: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > > > Hi: > > The web site DPReview has comprehensive reviews of digital cameras > going way back, and up to pre-production cameras not for sale yet. They > seem to do a real good job. > > I used the site to select my first digital camera, a Nikon CoolPix > 4500. I still have it, it's a 4 Mpixel sensor, and the lens can focus > down to about 1.25 CM. Really close. > > I have been told that it is a favorite pick for microscope users, as > the lens diameter fits the ocular tubes of most quality microscopes, I > wouldn't know. > > I have successfully taken multi-second close-up pix of moderately > fluorescent crystals using the time delay exposure (3-second delay to > allow the camera/tripod to become motionless after pressing the shutter > button). You can control aperture, shutter speed, focus and ISO > sensitivity manually, although some of these adjustments aren't instant, > when your subject is a rock just lying there, timing isn't important. > > I don't think Nikon makes these any more, but eBay is your friend. > > A friend recently bought a Panasonic Lumix, which has a lens by Leica, > probably the best lens maker in the world, and it seems to be a little > easier to use than the Coolpix. > > Some of Sony's high-end cameras use Carl Zeiss lenses, maybe the only > lens maker that can compete with Leica. These are not all > marco-capable, tho, so look up minimum focus distance before going for > one of these. > > Lastly, I recently bought a Nikon D70s, with a kit zoom(17-70mm) AND a > 60mm Nikor Micro lens. This puppy is the real deal, Stan! I splurged, > I indulged myself, I bought a tele-extender yesterday for wildlife > photography. It's a little harder to use than the point-and-shoot > cameras, but you can actually make the posters from your rocks if you > want to. > > It isn't 8 or 10 or 12 MPixel, but the lens and other components are of > such quality the resolution of the sensor isn't as much of a limit as > you might expect. I really love photography, right up there with rocks > and nature, so I finally got the tool I've always wanted. Well, really, > I'd like one of those 20MPixel Hassleblads, but they cost more than my > car! And then you need lenses! > > That's my take on cameras. And I thought the Blob was pretty scary > too, I was probably 12 and watched it on late night TV at my Grandma's > house, with cokes and popcorn. Thriller Theater, with the host rising > up from a cardboard coffin...he was Mr Cartoon in the afternoon, and > whoever the host of Thriller Theater was supposed to be the corpse of at > midnight. > > And I always thought it was such a shame that Tiny Tim and his wife > (what was her name...Miss Vicky) didn't work out...Axel, surely if you > tiptoe you won't really hurt the pretty tulips! > > KoR! > > JR in WV > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From ajs at frii.com Fri Oct 6 14:39:05 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Fri Oct 6 14:39:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <4525C261.5070104@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20061006213905.BD9FC4D25A@io.frii.com> > Megapixels equal more resolution but not a better overall photo, > everything else being equal. Amen. I sure see a lot of pictures where the sender doesn't even know they are shipping, say, 2 Mb of image. "Look at that resolution huh?" But the framing, composition, contrast, sometimes even the focus is awful. That said, it's still amazingly hard to get good photos of rocks. Alan Silverstein From jabac at hal-pc.org Fri Oct 6 19:17:56 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Fri Oct 6 19:16:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Camera recommendation In-Reply-To: <001a01c6e973$e09bde20$a59d2a4b@LarryRush> References: <052401c6e8ee$02af9640$640fa8c0@Grimble> <20061006140029.n88ltim3kfxcokg4@my6.dal.ca> <001a01c6e973$e09bde20$a59d2a4b@LarryRush> Message-ID: <45270E54.7070006@hal-pc.org> Lawrence Rush wrote: > Ronnie: Those are excellent photos! I am using a relatively cheap Kodak > Z740, with a macro lens, and I hope, with practice, I can come close to > your proficiency! Nice work! > > Larry > Aye, and a lovely catalogue of Nova Scotia to boot! One of the nicest things about digital cameras is the chance to do it over without any real extra expense. And processing is a whole lot cheaper since one has the tools right at hand in the computer. Even a relatively "cheap" camera with some flexibility, and Adobe or Paintshop Pro (or the Gimp), along with practice, some imagination, and a good eye can achieve impressive results. A beautifully clean website too. john From jabac at hal-pc.org Fri Oct 6 19:21:59 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Fri Oct 6 19:20:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Movies with weird things coming out of the earth. In-Reply-To: <100620061503.16011.45267055000E259500003E8B219792474103010CD2079C080C03BFCD9B0A020A0A09@mchsi.com> References: <100620061503.16011.45267055000E259500003E8B219792474103010CD2079C080C03BFCD9B0A020A0A09@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <45270F47.8020507@hal-pc.org> geenet2@mchsi.com wrote: > I stand corrected...Steve McQueen was in "The Blob" and Michael Landon was a > teenage werewolf. > > > >>I remember both.....one of them was disposed of by freezing with CO2 fire >>extinguishers I think... >>also one of my first scary movies. BTW, the Blob was Michael Landon's debut >>movie. >>Jeanette >> And James Arness was "The Thing" frozen in the Arctic ice. john From johnjold at comcast.net Sat Oct 7 14:32:10 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Sat Oct 7 14:32:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars Rover pictures of Victoria Crater Message-ID: Lots of shots from above and several of the layers in the crater Scroll down there is a lot to see. http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mro/gallery/press/index.html From kadok at infowest.com Sat Oct 7 14:55:06 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Oct 7 14:54:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c6ea5b$4025cb20$0200a8c0@kadok> Hi, Axel -- IF I am going to be knee deep in something, I can't think of anywhere I would rather be knee deep than in a field of tulips! <:-}} Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 2:28 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing I use a 4500 too! Pretty good cam, even for fluorescence photography. The D70 is worthless under UV I'm told. Tiptoing through the soft dirt of a tulip field is a bad idea if you weigh 200+ pounds... Take two steps and you're knee-deep in it ;-))) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J.R. Hodel > Verzonden: vrijdag 6 oktober 2006 17:04 > Aan: corson@infodyn.com > CC: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > > > Hi: > > The web site DPReview has comprehensive reviews of digital cameras > going way back, and up to pre-production cameras not for sale yet. They > seem to do a real good job. > > I used the site to select my first digital camera, a Nikon CoolPix > 4500. I still have it, it's a 4 Mpixel sensor, and the lens can focus > down to about 1.25 CM. Really close. > > I have been told that it is a favorite pick for microscope users, as > the lens diameter fits the ocular tubes of most quality microscopes, I > wouldn't know. > > I have successfully taken multi-second close-up pix of moderately > fluorescent crystals using the time delay exposure (3-second delay to > allow the camera/tripod to become motionless after pressing the shutter > button). You can control aperture, shutter speed, focus and ISO > sensitivity manually, although some of these adjustments aren't instant, > when your subject is a rock just lying there, timing isn't important. > > I don't think Nikon makes these any more, but eBay is your friend. > > A friend recently bought a Panasonic Lumix, which has a lens by Leica, > probably the best lens maker in the world, and it seems to be a little > easier to use than the Coolpix. > > Some of Sony's high-end cameras use Carl Zeiss lenses, maybe the only > lens maker that can compete with Leica. These are not all > marco-capable, tho, so look up minimum focus distance before going for > one of these. > > Lastly, I recently bought a Nikon D70s, with a kit zoom(17-70mm) AND a > 60mm Nikor Micro lens. This puppy is the real deal, Stan! I splurged, > I indulged myself, I bought a tele-extender yesterday for wildlife > photography. It's a little harder to use than the point-and-shoot > cameras, but you can actually make the posters from your rocks if you > want to. > > It isn't 8 or 10 or 12 MPixel, but the lens and other components are of > such quality the resolution of the sensor isn't as much of a limit as > you might expect. I really love photography, right up there with rocks > and nature, so I finally got the tool I've always wanted. Well, really, > I'd like one of those 20MPixel Hassleblads, but they cost more than my > car! And then you need lenses! > > That's my take on cameras. And I thought the Blob was pretty scary > too, I was probably 12 and watched it on late night TV at my Grandma's > house, with cokes and popcorn. Thriller Theater, with the host rising > up from a cardboard coffin...he was Mr Cartoon in the afternoon, and > whoever the host of Thriller Theater was supposed to be the corpse of at > midnight. > > And I always thought it was such a shame that Tiny Tim and his wife > (what was her name...Miss Vicky) didn't work out...Axel, surely if you > tiptoe you won't really hurt the pretty tulips! > > KoR! > > JR in WV > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS ------------------------------------------------------ Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 16840442) is spam: Spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=16840442&m=1e27d40b7c08 Not spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=16840442&m=1e27d40b7c08 Forget vote: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=16840442&m=1e27d40b7c08 ------------------------------------------------------ END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Oct 8 08:54:45 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Oct 8 08:54:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing In-Reply-To: <000101c6ea5b$4025cb20$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: Hello Margaret... good to hear from you ;-)) OK, some humor in small doses is good for the system. So I'll quickly sneak some in before we get reprimanded for being off topic. ;-))) Tulips reproduce by means of bulbs. Legend has it: so did the proto-Dutch but that's irrelevant and perhaps even not true... These tulip bulbs look somewhat like shallot to the gastronomically impaired. One of my colleagues once "unearthed" 6 tulip bulbs to have them hibernate in his garage. He carefully washed them clean of dirt and put them on a plate on his kitchen window-still (inside) to dry. While he was off to work, his teenage son shopped up the bulbs and used them to bake an omelet which he ate. All of it. Apparently tulip bulbs don't taste bad. To make a long story short: when my colleague returned from work he, his wife and his son were knee deep in, be it indirectly and severely altered, tulips. Their German shepherd was neck-deep in it but that only serves to demonstrate that size DOES matter. This is a true story. The son recovered completely and is now a professional horticulturist. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > Verzonden: zaterdag 7 oktober 2006 22:55 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > > > Hi, Axel -- > > IF I am going to be knee deep in something, I can't think of anywhere I > would rather be knee deep than in a field of tulips! <:-}} > > Margaret > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 2:28 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > > I use a 4500 too! > Pretty good cam, even for fluorescence photography. > The D70 is worthless under UV I'm told. > > Tiptoing through the soft dirt of a tulip field is a bad idea if you weigh > 200+ pounds... Take two steps and you're knee-deep in it ;-))) > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J.R. Hodel > > Verzonden: vrijdag 6 oktober 2006 17:04 > > Aan: corson@infodyn.com > > CC: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > > > > > > Hi: > > > > The web site DPReview has comprehensive reviews of digital cameras > > going way back, and up to pre-production cameras not for sale yet. They > > seem to do a real good job. > > > > I used the site to select my first digital camera, a Nikon CoolPix > > 4500. I still have it, it's a 4 Mpixel sensor, and the lens can focus > > down to about 1.25 CM. Really close. > > > > I have been told that it is a favorite pick for microscope users, as > > the lens diameter fits the ocular tubes of most quality microscopes, I > > wouldn't know. > > > > I have successfully taken multi-second close-up pix of moderately > > fluorescent crystals using the time delay exposure (3-second delay to > > allow the camera/tripod to become motionless after pressing the shutter > > button). You can control aperture, shutter speed, focus and ISO > > sensitivity manually, although some of these adjustments aren't instant, > > when your subject is a rock just lying there, timing isn't important. > > > > I don't think Nikon makes these any more, but eBay is your friend. > > > > A friend recently bought a Panasonic Lumix, which has a lens by Leica, > > probably the best lens maker in the world, and it seems to be a little > > easier to use than the Coolpix. > > > > Some of Sony's high-end cameras use Carl Zeiss lenses, maybe the only > > lens maker that can compete with Leica. These are not all > > marco-capable, tho, so look up minimum focus distance before going for > > one of these. > > > > Lastly, I recently bought a Nikon D70s, with a kit zoom(17-70mm) AND a > > 60mm Nikor Micro lens. This puppy is the real deal, Stan! I splurged, > > I indulged myself, I bought a tele-extender yesterday for wildlife > > photography. It's a little harder to use than the point-and-shoot > > cameras, but you can actually make the posters from your rocks if you > > want to. > > > > It isn't 8 or 10 or 12 MPixel, but the lens and other components are of > > such quality the resolution of the sensor isn't as much of a limit as > > you might expect. I really love photography, right up there with rocks > > and nature, so I finally got the tool I've always wanted. Well, really, > > I'd like one of those 20MPixel Hassleblads, but they cost more than my > > car! And then you need lenses! > > > > That's my take on cameras. And I thought the Blob was pretty scary > > too, I was probably 12 and watched it on late night TV at my Grandma's > > house, with cokes and popcorn. Thriller Theater, with the host rising > > up from a cardboard coffin...he was Mr Cartoon in the afternoon, and > > whoever the host of Thriller Theater was supposed to be the corpse of at > > midnight. > > > > And I always thought it was such a shame that Tiny Tim and his wife > > (what was her name...Miss Vicky) didn't work out...Axel, surely if you > > tiptoe you won't really hurt the pretty tulips! > > > > KoR! > > > > JR in WV > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 16840442) is spam: > Spam: > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=16840442&m=1e27d40b7c08 > Not spam: > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=16840442&m=1e27d40b7c08 > Forget vote: > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=16840442&m=1e27d40b7c08 > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sun Oct 8 09:14:03 2006 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sun Oct 8 09:14:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00ac01c6eaf4$c7ea78f0$6501a8c0@okapi> I dunno, Axel... Seems to work OK for me! With the manual control I can nail the exposure. gcb > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Axel Emmermann > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:28 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > > I use a 4500 too! > Pretty good cam, even for fluorescence photography. > The D70 is worthless under UV I'm told. From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Oct 8 11:00:09 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Oct 8 11:00:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing In-Reply-To: <00ac01c6eaf4$c7ea78f0$6501a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: Without editing the photo? Did you try fluorite? Some weaker fluorescents? Also yellow fluorescence of hydrocarbons in fluorite or other minerals is hard to capture. I'd like to see some pictures of fl. minerals that you took with your D70. If you have some and are willing to share, please send them my way ;-))) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Gary Brown > Verzonden: zondag 8 oktober 2006 17:14 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > > > I dunno, Axel... Seems to work OK for me! With the manual control I can > nail the exposure. > > gcb > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > > Axel Emmermann > > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:28 PM > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > > > > I use a 4500 too! > > Pretty good cam, even for fluorescence photography. > > The D70 is worthless under UV I'm told. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kadok at infowest.com Sun Oct 8 11:31:21 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Oct 8 11:32:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000a01c6eb07$f91e9fb0$0200a8c0@kadok> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:55 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing Hello Margaret... good to hear from you ;-)) >OK, some humor in small doses is good for the system. So I'll quickly sneak >some in before we get reprimanded for being off topic. ;-))) Right! >Tulips reproduce by means of bulbs. Legend has it: so did the proto-Dutch >but that's irrelevant and perhaps even not true... >These tulip bulbs look somewhat like shallot to the gastronomically >impaired. >One of my colleagues once "unearthed" 6 tulip bulbs to have them hibernate >in his garage. He carefully washed them clean of dirt and put them on a >plate on his kitchen window-still (inside) to dry. >While he was off to work, his teenage son shopped up the bulbs and used >them >to bake an omelet which he ate. All of it. Apparently tulip bulbs don't >taste bad. >To make a long story short: when my colleague returned from work he, his >wife and his son were knee deep in, be it indirectly and severely altered, >tulips. >Their German shepherd was neck-deep in it but that only serves to >demonstrate that size DOES matter. Yes indeed!! <:-}}} >This is a true story. The son recovered completely and is now a >professional >horticulturist. Wow! I'm glad the son recovered OK. (Being a botanist myself, I know that) Bulbs (except things like onion and garlic) do tend to be poisonous. Some even quite deadly (such as the Death Camas). Cheers, Margaret Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm > Verzonden: zaterdag 7 oktober 2006 22:55 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > > > Hi, Axel -- > > IF I am going to be knee deep in something, I can't think of anywhere I > would rather be knee deep than in a field of tulips! <:-}} > > Margaret > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 2:28 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > > I use a 4500 too! > Pretty good cam, even for fluorescence photography. > The D70 is worthless under UV I'm told. > > Tiptoing through the soft dirt of a tulip field is a bad idea if you weigh > 200+ pounds... Take two steps and you're knee-deep in it ;-))) > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens J.R. Hodel > > Verzonden: vrijdag 6 oktober 2006 17:04 > > Aan: corson@infodyn.com > > CC: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > > > > > > Hi: > > > > The web site DPReview has comprehensive reviews of digital cameras > > going way back, and up to pre-production cameras not for sale yet. They > > seem to do a real good job. > > > > I used the site to select my first digital camera, a Nikon CoolPix > > 4500. I still have it, it's a 4 Mpixel sensor, and the lens can focus > > down to about 1.25 CM. Really close. > > > > I have been told that it is a favorite pick for microscope users, as > > the lens diameter fits the ocular tubes of most quality microscopes, I > > wouldn't know. > > > > I have successfully taken multi-second close-up pix of moderately > > fluorescent crystals using the time delay exposure (3-second delay to > > allow the camera/tripod to become motionless after pressing the shutter > > button). You can control aperture, shutter speed, focus and ISO > > sensitivity manually, although some of these adjustments aren't instant, > > when your subject is a rock just lying there, timing isn't important. > > > > I don't think Nikon makes these any more, but eBay is your friend. > > > > A friend recently bought a Panasonic Lumix, which has a lens by Leica, > > probably the best lens maker in the world, and it seems to be a little > > easier to use than the Coolpix. > > > > Some of Sony's high-end cameras use Carl Zeiss lenses, maybe the only > > lens maker that can compete with Leica. These are not all > > marco-capable, tho, so look up minimum focus distance before going for > > one of these. > > > > Lastly, I recently bought a Nikon D70s, with a kit zoom(17-70mm) AND a > > 60mm Nikor Micro lens. This puppy is the real deal, Stan! I splurged, > > I indulged myself, I bought a tele-extender yesterday for wildlife > > photography. It's a little harder to use than the point-and-shoot > > cameras, but you can actually make the posters from your rocks if you > > want to. > > > > It isn't 8 or 10 or 12 MPixel, but the lens and other components are of > > such quality the resolution of the sensor isn't as much of a limit as > > you might expect. I really love photography, right up there with rocks > > and nature, so I finally got the tool I've always wanted. Well, really, > > I'd like one of those 20MPixel Hassleblads, but they cost more than my > > car! And then you need lenses! > > > > That's my take on cameras. And I thought the Blob was pretty scary > > too, I was probably 12 and watched it on late night TV at my Grandma's > > house, with cokes and popcorn. Thriller Theater, with the host rising > > up from a cardboard coffin...he was Mr Cartoon in the afternoon, and > > whoever the host of Thriller Theater was supposed to be the corpse of at > > midnight. > > > > And I always thought it was such a shame that Tiny Tim and his wife > > (what was her name...Miss Vicky) didn't work out...Axel, surely if you > > tiptoe you won't really hurt the pretty tulips! > > > > KoR! > > > > JR in WV > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS ------------------------------------------------------ Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 17262541) is spam: Spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=17262541&m=cb39b560f759 Not spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=17262541&m=cb39b560f759 Forget vote: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=17262541&m=cb39b560f759 ------------------------------------------------------ END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS From geenet2 at mchsi.com Sun Oct 8 18:30:02 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Sun Oct 8 18:28:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tulip munching References: Message-ID: <004101c6eb42$718d91b0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> What did the tulip bulbs do to them, exactly. BTW Onions are toxic to dogs. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:54 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > Hello Margaret... good to hear from you ;-)) > > OK, some humor in small doses is good for the system. So I'll quickly > sneak > some in before we get reprimanded for being off topic. ;-))) > > Tulips reproduce by means of bulbs. Legend has it: so did the proto-Dutch > but that's irrelevant and perhaps even not true... > These tulip bulbs look somewhat like shallot to the gastronomically > impaired. > One of my colleagues once "unearthed" 6 tulip bulbs to have them hibernate > in his garage. He carefully washed them clean of dirt and put them on a > plate on his kitchen window-still (inside) to dry. > While he was off to work, his teenage son shopped up the bulbs and used > them > to bake an omelet which he ate. All of it. Apparently tulip bulbs don't > taste bad. > To make a long story short: when my colleague returned from work he, his > wife and his son were knee deep in, be it indirectly and severely altered, > tulips. > Their German shepherd was neck-deep in it but that only serves to > demonstrate that size DOES matter. > > This is a true story. The son recovered completely and is now a > professional > horticulturist. > > Cheers > > Axel > > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Margaret Malm >> Verzonden: zaterdag 7 oktober 2006 22:55 >> Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors' >> Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing >> >> >> Hi, Axel -- >> >> IF I am going to be knee deep in something, I can't think of anywhere I >> would rather be knee deep than in a field of tulips! <:-}} >> >> Margaret From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sun Oct 8 19:25:00 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Oct 8 19:24:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Back to rocks, please (was) Tulip munching In-Reply-To: <004101c6eb42$718d91b0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <004101c6eb42$718d91b0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061008162320.0406baf8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Sorry to be a party pooper but it's time this went off-list and we got back to rocks. Aloha, Kitty (Admin Team) At 03:30 PM 10/8/2006, you wrote: >What did the tulip bulbs do to them, exactly. >BTW Onions are toxic to dogs. >Jeanette > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 10:54 AM >Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Cameras, the blob, and Tulip tiptoeing > > >>Hello Margaret... good to hear from you ;-)) >> >>OK, some humor in small doses is good for the system. So I'll quickly sneak >>some in before we get reprimanded for being off topic. ;-))) From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 8 20:03:08 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 8 20:00:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] earthquakes, seismography, and N. Korean devices In-Reply-To: <092320061359.28521.45153DD800050D5700006F69216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <092320061359.28521.45153DD800050D5700006F69216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <4529BBEC.7090005@verizon.net> Greetings earthlings, As I am sitting here analyzing microprobe data (getting data = interesting, analyzing data = tedious), I just heard over the BBC Internet broadcast that N. Korea may have tested its device, as threatened (this was heard about 7:50 PM PST). I went looking for on-line real-time seismographs, but got a lot of other hits for the wrong type of site, and quite frankly I need to get this analysis done before tomorrow, so I can't pursue this. I know some of you can find this quite easily. How is that for still being on-topic: seismography is not only useful for earthquakes, but for monitoring weapons testing! You will know it when you see it: it won't look like any tremor or quake you've ever seen; it will be very sudden, very large (will probably peg the seismograph), and will fall off rather quickly without the usual p- and s-wave distribution. Good luck, have fun, say your prayers, Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 8 20:10:33 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 8 20:08:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] earthquakes, seismography, and N. Korean devices (update) In-Reply-To: <4529BBEC.7090005@verizon.net> References: <092320061359.28521.45153DD800050D5700006F69216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <4529BBEC.7090005@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4529BDA9.4050705@verizon.net> DonH wrote: A small correction.... > You will know it when you see it: it won't look like any tremor or quake > you've ever seen; it will be very sudden, very large (will probably peg > the seismograph), and will fall off rather quickly without the usual p- > and s-wave distribution. In fact it may not be that large; I'm thinking of the seismograph at school which is tuned to low resolution to record minor tremors at Mt. St. Helens. Apparently there are reports of a seismic event at 3.5 on the Richter scale. Don From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Oct 8 20:08:45 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Oct 8 20:08:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] earthquakes, seismography, and N. Korean devices In-Reply-To: <4529BBEC.7090005@verizon.net> References: <092320061359.28521.45153DD800050D5700006F69216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <4529BBEC.7090005@verizon.net> Message-ID: It looks like you might have to go thru this process to access the data: For the IRIS network anyway. BK On 10/8/06, DonH wrote: > > > Greetings earthlings, > > As I am sitting here analyzing microprobe data (getting data = > interesting, analyzing data = tedious), I just heard over the BBC > Internet broadcast that N. Korea may have tested its device, as > threatened (this was heard about 7:50 PM PST). > > I went looking for on-line real-time seismographs, but got a lot of > other hits for the wrong type of site, and quite frankly I need to get > this analysis done before tomorrow, so I can't pursue this. I know some > of you can find this quite easily. > > How is that for still being on-topic: seismography is not only useful > for earthquakes, but for monitoring weapons testing! > > You will know it when you see it: it won't look like any tremor or quake > you've ever seen; it will be very sudden, very large (will probably peg > the seismograph), and will fall off rather quickly without the usual p- > and s-wave distribution. > > > Good luck, have fun, say your prayers, > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Oct 8 20:16:02 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Oct 8 20:15:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] earthquakes, seismography, and N. Korean devices References: <092320061359.28521.45153DD800050D5700006F69216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <4529BBEC.7090005@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4529BEE1.7661@Tomaszewski.net> Don, Check out http://www.iris.edu/seismon/ for anything over (about) 5.0 globally. They have links to most global stations where you can find current seismograms at any detail. Kreigh DonH wrote: > > Greetings earthlings, > > As I am sitting here analyzing microprobe data (getting data = > interesting, analyzing data = tedious), I just heard over the BBC > Internet broadcast that N. Korea may have tested its device, as > threatened (this was heard about 7:50 PM PST). > > I went looking for on-line real-time seismographs, but got a lot of > other hits for the wrong type of site, and quite frankly I need to get > this analysis done before tomorrow, so I can't pursue this. I know some > of you can find this quite easily. > > How is that for still being on-topic: seismography is not only useful > for earthquakes, but for monitoring weapons testing! > > You will know it when you see it: it won't look like any tremor or quake > you've ever seen; it will be very sudden, very large (will probably peg > the seismograph), and will fall off rather quickly without the usual p- > and s-wave distribution. > > Good luck, have fun, say your prayers, > Don > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Sun Oct 8 20:35:33 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sun Oct 8 20:35:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Benefit auction for Rocks & Minerals Message-ID: <100920060335.15677.4529C384000CE2AF00003D3D216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Dear List, I wanted to pass on that a benefit online auction for Rocks & Minerals magazine is in progress now on John Veevaert's Trinity Minerals website, at http://auction1.mineral-auctions.com/index.php 22 specimens, donated to Rocks & Minerals at the Denver Show were reserved for this silent auction rather than being sold at the "live" silent auction in Denver in September. It began on Oct. 6 and closes at 8 p.m. (central time) Monday, Oct. 9. You're invited to take a look; it's for a good cause. Sincerely, Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 20:58:07 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Oct 8 20:58:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Richter Magnitude vs nuke test yield Message-ID: <000301c6eb57$2264c7b0$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> A 1 kiloton underground test gives a seismic magnitude 4.0 30 kilotons = approx. mag. 5.0 1 megaton = approx. mag. 6.0 The nuke signature differs from an earthquake in that there is no "S" wave, or shear component, making a distance determination difficult from the data of only one or two seismic recordings. http://www.seismo.unr.edu/ftp/pub/louie/class/100/magnitude.html When USGS reports the magnitude, we'll know how big it was. There is always the possibility the nuke test failed but that the DPRK wants everyone to believe it was a success. They then would detonate a backup large conventional explosion underground which if 1,000 tons or more is difficult to distinguish from a nuclear detonation. Erich From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 8 21:17:28 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 8 21:15:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Richter Magnitude vs nuke test yield In-Reply-To: <000301c6eb57$2264c7b0$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <000301c6eb57$2264c7b0$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <4529CD58.7050702@verizon.net> Cool. News travels fast and they're already reporting that N.K. claimed they did it, there are reports of a ~M3.5 event, and various Pacific countries are reporting that they received back-channel diplomatic notice that it was about to happen. We have ways of knowing exactly what it was and how big. That technology was very well developed during the cold war, though our gov't may or may not reveal what they know, for various reasons, but I don't want to get too far off the subject. Besides I was trained as a shelter monitor almost 30 years ago (good lord, has it been that long!) and my memory may not serve so well. Back to the topic, a device has a much higher overpressure and is a higher-velocity shock wave than a conventional explosion. It certainly doesn't look like a real earthquake as you pointed out, but differentiating the exact type of blast requires a little more sophisticated analysis. Well, I'm sure the Bushes are awake now ("go back to sleep Laura, it's only a weapons test"), and we'll hear more in the morning. In the meantime, if anyone finds evidence of the blast on some on-line seismograph or other similar site, please post a link. Back to normalizing silica content.... Don Erich Kern wrote: > A 1 kiloton underground test gives a seismic magnitude 4.0 > > 30 kilotons = approx. mag. 5.0 > > 1 megaton = approx. mag. 6.0 > > The nuke signature differs from an earthquake in that there is no "S" wave, or shear component, > making a distance determination difficult from the data of only one or two seismic recordings. > > http://www.seismo.unr.edu/ftp/pub/louie/class/100/magnitude.html > > When USGS reports the magnitude, we'll know how big it was. There is always the possibility the > nuke test failed but that the DPRK wants everyone to believe it was a success. They then would > detonate a backup large conventional explosion underground which if 1,000 tons or more is > difficult to distinguish from a nuclear detonation. > > Erich > > > > > From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 22:28:52 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Oct 8 22:29:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2 Message-ID: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> So, at M=4.2 it was approx. a 1 kiloton nuke or a 1,000 tons of TNT. http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/ustqab.php The reason for the absence of an S wave with an underground test, is that it is a point source, whereas an earthquake fractures the earth's crust along a shear plane. Erich From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 8 23:00:38 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 8 22:58:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2 In-Reply-To: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> Erich Kern wrote: > > So, at M=4.2 it was approx. a 1 kiloton nuke or a 1,000 tons of TNT. > > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/ustqab.php > > The reason for the absence of an S wave with an underground test, is that it is a point source, > whereas an earthquake fractures the earth's crust along a shear plane. > > Erich What's really eerie is that it gets reported as any old earthquake. But anyway, I'd like to see the actual seismographic record to see what the signature looks like. I've seen them in training slides but I'd like to compare this one. By the way, if anyone is wondering what the heck we're talking about, now is a good time to look up seismic waves, and you'll see how p-waves and s-waves are important in seismology. My original purpose on this post was to introduce a real-time and practical learning experience--really! Now back to trace element isotopic concentrations in granites.... Enjoy the waves, Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 8 23:22:01 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 8 23:21:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2 (blast from the past) In-Reply-To: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <4529EA89.1060703@verizon.net> OK, one more and then I'll shut up... I *think* this is it: http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/PNSN/RPW_SHZ_UW.2006100900.html "Shake shake shake shake shake shake shake your booty" --KC and the Sunshine Band "You shook me all night long" --AC/DC "I really need to do homework" --me Can't wait to read the list tomorrow morning! Dangerous Don From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sun Oct 8 23:33:00 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Oct 8 23:33:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2 (blast from the past) In-Reply-To: <4529EA89.1060703@verizon.net> References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <4529EA89.1060703@verizon.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061008202957.03e3f2a0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Thanks for your info, Don. Not really rocks, but the event is in the news: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15190745/ Get some sleep, Don, if you can. Aloha, Kitty At 08:22 PM 10/8/2006, you wrote: >OK, one more and then I'll shut up... I *think* this is it: > >http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/PNSN/RPW_SHZ_UW.2006100900.html > >Dangerous Don From afox at panix.com Mon Oct 9 06:32:00 2006 From: afox at panix.com (Aaron Fox) Date: Mon Oct 9 06:32:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2 In-Reply-To: <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> Message-ID: > What's really eerie is that it gets reported as any old earthquake. Yes, and no. Once a seismologist for a particular network (SCSN-TriNet, NCSN, PSSN, etc) gets a chance to review the full-spectrum seismic data, the catalog will often be modified to reflect that the event was not a natural earthquake. For example, I'm working with a bunch of catalog data from the Southern California Seismic Network for my masters thesis, and they have been very dilligent about marking known quarry blasts and nuclear tests (when recorded). > But anyway, I'd like to see the actual seismographic record to see what the > signature looks like. I've seen them in training slides but I'd like to > compare this one. Realtime data is available from IRIS: http://www.iris.washington.edu/bud_stuff/bud/bud_start.pl http://www.iris.edu/data/types.htm Probably your best bet is Japan's National Research Institute's broadband seismic net: http://www.fnet.bosai.go.jp/ If you know the rough latitude, longitude, and time of the blast, you can look up the waveforms pretty easily. Be warned, though, a lot of the sites ask for registration. Why, I'm not quite sure; I always make up some bullshit reply about being a struggling graduate student (well, that's not totally untrue....:-), as I've had folks refuse a connection (Germans, thank you very much) if I indicated that I was 'just curious'.... > Now back to trace element isotopic concentrations in granites.... Which trace elements, Don? Are you looking at apatites and zircons? a. -- afox at panix dot com || http://www.panix.com/~afox Go: It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye... From johnjold at comcast.net Mon Oct 9 09:23:10 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Mon Oct 9 09:23:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fossil giant camel in Syria Message-ID: <78c86765946cc4ae2f1b7f2e75465d68@comcast.net> Huge new fossil and new very old human bones found in Syria. http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200610/s1757860.htm From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 9 15:32:29 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 9 15:29:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2 References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> Message-ID: <452ACD4C.E69@Tomaszewski.net> If you go to http://www.iris.edu/seismon/ you can click on North Korea to get a regional map. It will show a red circle in North Korea for a recent quake. Click on it for a list of recent quakes, select the top one, Click on it and you will get a list of several hundred stations that recorded the quake. Each station will then let you see the seismograph record they made. Kreigh DonH wrote: > > Erich Kern wrote: > > > > > So, at M=4.2 it was approx. a 1 kiloton nuke or a 1,000 tons of TNT. > > > > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/ustqab.php > > > > The reason for the absence of an S wave with an underground test, is that it is a point source, > > whereas an earthquake fractures the earth's crust along a shear plane. > > > > Erich > > What's really eerie is that it gets reported as any old earthquake. > > But anyway, I'd like to see the actual seismographic record to see what > the signature looks like. I've seen them in training slides but I'd > like to compare this one. > > By the way, if anyone is wondering what the heck we're talking about, > now is a good time to look up seismic waves, and you'll see how p-waves > and s-waves are important in seismology. My original purpose on this > post was to introduce a real-time and practical learning experience--really! > > Now back to trace element isotopic concentrations in granites.... > > Enjoy the waves, > Don > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 16:45:39 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Oct 9 16:45:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2 In-Reply-To: <452ACD4C.E69@Tomaszewski.net> References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> <452ACD4C.E69@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Here's the formula for yield: " DefenseTech explains how yields are calculatedfrom seismic readings: Estimating the yield is tricky business, because it depends on the geology of the test site. The South Koreans called the yield half a kiloton (550 tons), which is more or less ? a factor of two ? consistent with the relationship for tests in that yield range at the Soviet Shagan test site: Mb = 4.262 + .973LogW Where Mb is the magnitude of the body wave, and W is the yield. 3.58-3.7 gives you a couple hundred tons (not kilotons), which is pretty close in this business unless you're really math positive. The same equation, given the US estimate of 4.2, yields (pun intended) around a kiloton. A plutonium device should produce a yield in the range of the 20 kilotons, like the one we dropped on Nagasaki. No one has ever dudded their first test of a simple fission device. North Korean nuclear scientists are now officially the worst ever." BK On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > If you go to http://www.iris.edu/seismon/ you can click on North Korea > to get a regional map. It will show a red circle in North Korea for a > recent quake. Click on it for a list of recent quakes, select the top > one, Click on it and you will get a list of several hundred stations > that recorded the quake. Each station will then let you see the > seismograph record they made. > > Kreigh > > > DonH wrote: > > > > Erich Kern wrote: > > > > > > > > So, at M=4.2 it was approx. a 1 kiloton nuke or a 1,000 tons of TNT. > > > > > > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/Quakes/ustqab.php > > > > > > The reason for the absence of an S wave with an underground test, is > that it is a point source, > > > whereas an earthquake fractures the earth's crust along a shear plane. > > > > > > Erich > > > > What's really eerie is that it gets reported as any old earthquake. > > > > But anyway, I'd like to see the actual seismographic record to see what > > the signature looks like. I've seen them in training slides but I'd > > like to compare this one. > > > > By the way, if anyone is wondering what the heck we're talking about, > > now is a good time to look up seismic waves, and you'll see how p-waves > > and s-waves are important in seismology. My original purpose on this > > post was to introduce a real-time and practical learning > experience--really! > > > > Now back to trace element isotopic concentrations in granites.... > > > > Enjoy the waves, > > Don > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 17:10:55 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Oct 9 17:11:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2 In-Reply-To: References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> <452ACD4C.E69@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: And interestingly here is a gallery of trinite photos: http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Med/Trinitite.html I always heard that is was green but apparently not. BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Mon Oct 9 17:26:06 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Mon Oct 9 17:26:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20061010002606.8CABE4D25D@io.frii.com> > ...And interestingly here is a gallery of trinite photos: > ...I always heard that is was green but apparently not. It's a pale green, not strong in most cases, and this webpage doesn't make that real clear. Walking around at the Trinity site a few years ago during a semi-annual open house, you could see bits of it still on the ground. I don't know if the color is due to the chemical composition of the site, introduced impurities (uranium? I doubt it), or just the macroscopic structure of the glass. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 9 17:45:31 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 9 17:42:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2 References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> <452ACD4C.E69@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <452AEC65.6869@Tomaszewski.net> I have a couple specimens of trinitite, and I've seen others in institutional collections. You can see the hint of muddy green in the photos you referenced (at least it was clear on my monitor), but in all the specimens I've personally seen the green was just a little more visible (but not much). Those are actually pretty good photos if you look at the full size individual pictures. Interesting link. Thanks! Kreigh J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > And interestingly here is a gallery of trinite photos: > > http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Med/Trinitite.html > > I always heard that is was green but apparently not. > > BK > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 17:44:52 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Oct 9 17:44:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2 In-Reply-To: <452AEC65.6869@Tomaszewski.net> References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> <452ACD4C.E69@Tomaszewski.net> <452AEC65.6869@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: I moved it over to my calibrated monitor and can see the the green there. BK On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > I have a couple specimens of trinitite, and I've seen others in > institutional collections. You can see the hint of muddy green in the > photos you referenced (at least it was clear on my monitor), but in all > the specimens I've personally seen the green was just a little more > visible (but not much). Those are actually pretty good photos if you > look at the full size individual pictures. Interesting link. Thanks! > > Kreigh > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > And interestingly here is a gallery of trinite photos: > > > > http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Med/Trinitite.html > > > > I always heard that is was green but apparently not. > > > > BK > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Mon Oct 9 17:45:35 2006 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Mon Oct 9 17:45:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs Message-ID: <20061010004535.69799.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What type of equipment do most of you use in polishing slabs? I have received conflicting information and need to find out what is proper and efficient before investing. Thanks for your help. June --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Mon Oct 9 18:02:07 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Oct 9 18:02:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs In-Reply-To: <20061010004535.69799.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061010004535.69799.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20061009175708.0262fce8@orerockon.com> There are many different pieces of equipment you can use to polish slabs, including such mundane things as 3M diamond sandpaper, cerium oxide, and elbow grease. Most people have more than one piece of equipment for polishing slabs. I use a Richardson's overhead sander with floor sanding discs and a Richardson's polishing wheel 90% of the time. The other 10% of the time I use a 24" Covington flat lap (for slabs too big for the sander). I would guess that most lapidaries use the flat lap a lot more than any other method. At 05:45 PM 10/9/2006, you wrote: >What type of equipment do most of you use in polishing slabs? I >have received conflicting information and need to find out what is >proper and efficient before investing. >Thanks for your help. >June > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 18:12:24 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Oct 9 18:12:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs In-Reply-To: <20061010004535.69799.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061010004535.69799.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think part of that depends on you. How much time do you want to spend doing the work? I have a dual pan vibrating flat lap. I fill it with rocks, plug it in, and check every hour or two to make sure it's still wet enough. I get it started then get on my computer and work until I remember to check the lap. My friend Tom is a pro, polishing rock for a living. He has a lap that rotates (like blades on a fan) and he stands there, holding each rock against the lap. He said his method is faster than mine. I think it might be true. For me, changing to a smaller (finer) grit requires cleaning both pans and all the rocks in them. And everything has to be really clean. One piece of the larger grit can contaminate a pan. So I do my work with a bunch of rocks but I have a free hour between checking the water, and 4 or more hours between cleaning the pans. And Tom stands there, polishing one rock after another. When he's done with a pile of slabs he changes to a finer lap and works through that pile again. I actually think his method is more fun. However, I can support myself while the slabs are polishing and there's no way I can support myself polishing slabs. I hope this helps. The best thing might be to find somebody local and use their stuff for an hour or two. Grant JohnstoN, Chico, CA On 10/9/06, June Young wrote: > What type of equipment do most of you use in polishing slabs? I have received conflicting information and need to find out what is proper and efficient before investing. > Thanks for your help. > June > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Lapidry at aol.com Mon Oct 9 18:30:48 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 9 18:31:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs Message-ID: <42c.7aab2be.325c51c8@aol.com> In a message dated 10/9/2006 8:45:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jayhawkmn@yahoo.com writes: What type of equipment do most of you use in polishing slabs? I have received conflicting information and need to find out what is proper and efficient before investing. Thanks for your help. June June: There are three primary methods I'm aware of. The oldest is to use a flat vibratory lap. Next on the list, the one that produces the best finish most of the time but is rarely seen, is a dry lap that uses a sanding disk spinning in circles with the stone in a holder designed to counter-rotate to polish in all directions. The third is how most of those Brazilian agate slabs are polished. It's a series of belt sander devices where you feed the slab in and a polished slab spits out the other end. Similar to a woodworker's drum sander. Vibratory laps were sold by a number of vendors and I've seen them ranging in size from 8 inches to 30 inches. These were the most popular, partially due to price. I have a couple 10 inch and a 15 inch. Lortone makes a 15 and 20 inch. They employ a two tray system. The first is for cutting with grit, the second is the polish tray and usually has a section of indoor/outdoor fiber carpet in it. New units are several hundred dollars but I've seen a number of used units over the years. The most wearable part on the Lortones and several others are the superballs they use. You can buy replacement superballs at most toy stores for a few dollars. I found some on clearance at Target last year for 25 cents each and bought a life time supply. The sad thing is they have dinosaur toys embedded inside....what a waste....I saw some in a rock shop once that had minerals inside but were $5 each. Dry laps were always rare. I have one called Rockhounder's Paradise. As far as I know, it hasn't been manufactured in a couple decades. Fortunately, the wearable parts can easily be replaced with currently available parts. The disk it uses is an 18 inch 3M floor polishing disk that sells for $5 or less at many rental stores. This results in two 8 inch round chambers for polishing. You do want to be careful with this model. Early serial numbers were very good. Later serial numbers suffered from quality control, partially due to a change of ownership. It was a very expensive item at the time and not that many were sold. Everyone who has an early model I've ever known wouldn't sell it for anything. Kind of like the elusive marble makers I've never managed to find. You almost have to inherit one. You have to wear the disk down to a certain point before it starts to polish but the polish is dead flat and a mirror finish. Not the rounded edges that a vibratory unit produces. Over the years, mine has been modified to use old brake drums that have been machined to fit in place of the original stamped rims, much more durable. Also all the bearings have been replaced with Bosch oil-lites and almost never need to be replaced. I've only seen the drum/belt polishers. They seem very fast and do a good job. I don't know of any manufacturers. The units I've seen were all home builts or built to order. I'm very impressed with the ones I've seen but don't do the volume of polishing to have enough incentive to build one myself. These guys can polish hundreds of slabs a day. The dry lap is a couple days per slab but you can do several at a time and the vibratory is several days per slab and you build a plastic tent over the pan to keep it moist. You can do multiple slabs at a time though, based on the size of the pan. The drum/belt sanders have the disadvantage of only being able to do slabs. The other two can do most faced material. Hope this helps..... Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 9 18:49:10 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 9 18:49:20 2006 Subject: Trinitite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2} References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> <452ACD4C.E69@Tomaszewski.net> <452AEC65.6869@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <452AFC14.C18@Tomaszewski.net> I put a pic of one of my Trinitite specimens up at http://Tomaszewski.net/Images/0770a.jpg It comes close to the specimen in my hand, but the picture is still not as green as it should be. Kreigh J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > I moved it over to my calibrated monitor and can see the the green there. > > BK > > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > I have a couple specimens of trinitite, and I've seen others in > > institutional collections. You can see the hint of muddy green in the > > photos you referenced (at least it was clear on my monitor), but in all > > the specimens I've personally seen the green was just a little more > > visible (but not much). Those are actually pretty good photos if you > > look at the full size individual pictures. Interesting link. Thanks! > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > > And interestingly here is a gallery of trinite photos: > > > > > > http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Med/Trinitite.html > > > > > > I always heard that is was green but apparently not. > > > > > > BK From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 19:01:21 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Oct 9 19:01:25 2006 Subject: Trinitite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2} In-Reply-To: <452AFC14.C18@Tomaszewski.net> References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> <452ACD4C.E69@Tomaszewski.net> <452AEC65.6869@Tomaszewski.net> <452AFC14.C18@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Better photo than those others: is this a better version BK On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > I put a pic of one of my Trinitite specimens up at > > http://Tomaszewski.net/Images/0770a.jpg > > It comes close to the specimen in my hand, but the picture is still not > as green as it should be. > > Kreigh > > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > I moved it over to my calibrated monitor and can see the the green > there. > > > > BK > > > > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > > I have a couple specimens of trinitite, and I've seen others in > > > institutional collections. You can see the hint of muddy green in the > > > photos you referenced (at least it was clear on my monitor), but in > all > > > the specimens I've personally seen the green was just a little more > > > visible (but not much). Those are actually pretty good photos if you > > > look at the full size individual pictures. Interesting link. Thanks! > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > > > > And interestingly here is a gallery of trinite photos: > > > > > > > > http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Med/Trinitite.html > > > > > > > > I always heard that is was green but apparently not. > > > > > > > > BK > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Mon Oct 9 19:11:04 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Mon Oct 9 19:11:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Check out this rock References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder><4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> <452ACD4C.E69@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <00ff01c6ec11$57e9b110$6400a8c0@hppav> http://news.yahoo.com/photo/061009/481/4bc1fe03098b4000a56db7501221e0f2&g=events/lf/100906lesothodiamond;_ylt=AgEkAZqUnLdE_NebxFNwVTRv24cA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3bGk2OHYzBHNlYwN0bXA 'Lesotho Promise' Diamond From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 9 19:17:51 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 9 19:17:53 2006 Subject: Trinitite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2} References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> <452ACD4C.E69@Tomaszewski.net> <452AEC65.6869@Tomaszewski.net> <452AFC14.C18@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <452B02CA.900@Tomaszewski.net> That is like magic. What software are you using for photo enhancement? That picture really came close (but it is still not quite green enough)! Kreigh J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Better photo than those others: is this a better version > > > > BK > > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > I put a pic of one of my Trinitite specimens up at > > > > http://Tomaszewski.net/Images/0770a.jpg > > > > It comes close to the specimen in my hand, but the picture is still not > > as green as it should be. > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > > I moved it over to my calibrated monitor and can see the the green > > there. > > > > > > BK > > > > > > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > > > > I have a couple specimens of trinitite, and I've seen others in > > > > institutional collections. You can see the hint of muddy green in the > > > > photos you referenced (at least it was clear on my monitor), but in > > all > > > > the specimens I've personally seen the green was just a little more > > > > visible (but not much). Those are actually pretty good photos if you > > > > look at the full size individual pictures. Interesting link. Thanks! > > > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > And interestingly here is a gallery of trinite photos: > > > > > > > > > > http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Med/Trinitite.html > > > > > > > > > > I always heard that is was green but apparently not. > > > > > > > > > > BK From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 19:29:02 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Oct 9 19:29:06 2006 Subject: Trinitite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2} In-Reply-To: <452B02CA.900@Tomaszewski.net> References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> <452ACD4C.E69@Tomaszewski.net> <452AEC65.6869@Tomaszewski.net> <452AFC14.C18@Tomaszewski.net> <452B02CA.900@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Just photoshop and it wasn't enhancement just setting the black and white points which more or less corrects the color. I did a luminosity sharpen too. Took about 15 seconds all told. There's only so much you can do on a second generation jpeg before the image starts falling apart and this is at that limit. You need an original to do more. If you have PS I can give you a more detailed set of instructions on how to do it. BK On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > That is like magic. What software are you using for photo enhancement? > That picture really came close (but it is still not quite green enough)! > > Kreigh > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > Better photo than those others: is this a better version > > > > > > > > BK > > > > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > > I put a pic of one of my Trinitite specimens up at > > > > > > http://Tomaszewski.net/Images/0770a.jpg > > > > > > It comes close to the specimen in my hand, but the picture is still > not > > > as green as it should be. > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > > > > I moved it over to my calibrated monitor and can see the the green > > > there. > > > > > > > > BK > > > > > > > > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have a couple specimens of trinitite, and I've seen others in > > > > > institutional collections. You can see the hint of muddy green in > the > > > > > photos you referenced (at least it was clear on my monitor), but > in > > > all > > > > > the specimens I've personally seen the green was just a little > more > > > > > visible (but not much). Those are actually pretty good photos if > you > > > > > look at the full size individual pictures. Interesting link. > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > And interestingly here is a gallery of trinite photos: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Med/Trinitite.html > > > > > > > > > > > > I always heard that is was green but apparently not. > > > > > > > > > > > > BK > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Mon Oct 9 20:06:09 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Mon Oct 9 19:59:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs (and labradorite) In-Reply-To: References: <20061010004535.69799.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I cut on a Graves cab-mate flat disc machine; seldom do slabs or flat surfaces, but when this is needed I use home built diamond charged discs that are slightly crowned. This gets into the "dead zone" at the centres of the flats. Likewise with polishing - I use a slightly crowned leather wheel. This lapidary-techniques discussion though has got me wondering about what lapidary lists might be out there. I used to be (and maybe still am) on Thurmond Moore's "Faceter's and Lapidary Digest" list but that seemed to rather dwindle over the past year. Any of you folks have recommendations? There is also an ulterior motive to my asking about lapidary lists, and that is that I CANNOT get Madagascar labradorite to polish without undercutting. In Madagascar they seem to be able to do it - polish the stuff to an almost glass-smooth surface. But if I take such a piece and cut small stones from it it doesn't matter whether I use tin oxide on leather, cerium oxide on leather, or grease-base 14,000 diamond on a hard felt wheel; the result is the same - undercut undercut undercut. So I need a good lapidary list to pose this puzzle to. Or if anyone on the rockhounds list has an answer - I will listen gratefully... Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 20:01:18 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Oct 9 20:01:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cutting Blue Flash Moonstone Message-ID: <7aac8040610092001n1a9cf88wffcff499387007ae@mail.gmail.com> I bought about 8 small chunks of blue flash moonstone at the Grassy Creek (NC) show this year. They are smallish chunks, 1" on average, and look to be rough tumbled. There is some striking blue flash on some of the edges. I am really new to cabbing, much less cutting special lapidary material like this. How should I cut these on to maximize flash? Thanks, Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From darren at offtherackpro.com Mon Oct 9 20:02:25 2006 From: darren at offtherackpro.com (Darren D'Agostino) Date: Mon Oct 9 20:02:31 2006 Subject: Trinitite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2} In-Reply-To: References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <4529E586.8060806@verizon.net> <452ACD4C.E69@Tomaszewski.net> <452AEC65.6869@Tomaszewski.net> <452AFC14.C18@Tomaszewski.net> <452B02CA.900@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <3C28CBD3-5B34-4CFF-9C06-031E86E33876@offtherackpro.com> just so you know, setting the black and white points with levels or light curves doesn't color correct the image. It sort of balances out the contrast. It is a bit over sharpened and some of the highlights are blown out, but using a second gen jpeg there is only so much you can do like you said, because the artifacts become more apparent. For color correction, I use color balance, selective color and hue/ saturation as a starting point. Photo filters also work if there is an overall colorization for whatever reason. Burning and dodging also helps balance out the values of specific areas of the image. Sometimes I will bring images in after effects and shake if I need a lot of control over gamma curves etc. but usually I can color correct massive images in photoshop without using other software. Anyway, just saw my chance to talk about something I know about ;) If you ever need any advanced tips let me know. D On Oct 9, 2006, at 10:29 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Just photoshop and it wasn't enhancement just setting the black and > white > points which more or less corrects the color. I did a luminosity > sharpen > too. Took about 15 seconds all told. There's only so much you can > do on a > second generation jpeg before the image starts falling apart and > this is at > that limit. You need an original to do more. > > If you have PS I can give you a more detailed set of instructions > on how to > do it. > > BK > > > > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> >> That is like magic. What software are you using for photo >> enhancement? >> That picture really came close (but it is still not quite green >> enough)! >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> > >> > Better photo than those others: is this a better version >> > >> > >> > >> > BK >> > >> > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> > > >> > > I put a pic of one of my Trinitite specimens up at >> > > >> > > http://Tomaszewski.net/Images/0770a.jpg >> > > >> > > It comes close to the specimen in my hand, but the picture is >> still >> not >> > > as green as it should be. >> > > >> > > Kreigh >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> > > > >> > > > I moved it over to my calibrated monitor and can see the the >> green >> > > there. >> > > > >> > > > BK >> > > > >> > > > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > I have a couple specimens of trinitite, and I've seen >> others in >> > > > > institutional collections. You can see the hint of muddy >> green in >> the >> > > > > photos you referenced (at least it was clear on my >> monitor), but >> in >> > > all >> > > > > the specimens I've personally seen the green was just a >> little >> more >> > > > > visible (but not much). Those are actually pretty good >> photos if >> you >> > > > > look at the full size individual pictures. Interesting link. >> Thanks! >> > > > > >> > > > > Kreigh >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > And interestingly here is a gallery of trinite photos: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Med/Trinitite.html >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I always heard that is was green but apparently not. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > BK >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Mon Oct 9 20:20:37 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Mon Oct 9 20:14:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cutting Blue Flash Moonstone In-Reply-To: <7aac8040610092001n1a9cf88wffcff499387007ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040610092001n1a9cf88wffcff499387007ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <869240d33740434c5a6cc7a34726f90a@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi Drew, What I'd do is orient the moonstone the same way you do labradorite, a close relative with similar optical effect. Hold the stone looking directly down at it with a single bright light bulb directly overhead; turn the stone until you get maximum flash; then, holding that orientation, dip it slowly half way into water. Mark the line the water has made around the stone and cut parallel to that line. That gives you the base of the stone. Or you can do the same thing with the overhead light but stick the stone in some sort of putty on the tabletop; orient it for maximum flash as before and mark a line around it with a felt pen parallel to the table top and cut parallel to that line. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada On 10-Oct-06, at 12:01 AM, Drew wrote: > I bought about 8 small chunks of blue flash moonstone at the Grassy > Creek > (NC) show this year. They are smallish chunks, 1" on average, and > look to > be rough tumbled. There is some striking blue flash on some of the > edges. > I am really new to cabbing, much less cutting special lapidary > material like > this. How should I cut these on to maximize flash? > > Thanks, > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 20:22:25 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Oct 9 20:22:29 2006 Subject: Trinitite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2} In-Reply-To: <3C28CBD3-5B34-4CFF-9C06-031E86E33876@offtherackpro.com> References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <452AEC65.6869@Tomaszewski.net> <452AFC14.C18@Tomaszewski.net> <452B02CA.900@Tomaszewski.net> <3C28CBD3-5B34-4CFF-9C06-031E86E33876@offtherackpro.com> Message-ID: Well this isn't the place for it but setting the black and white points does correct color to a certain extent, you will see color shifts when you do it. You may be using a different method, I use Kelby's. BK On 10/9/06, Darren D'Agostino wrote: > > just so you know, setting the black and white points with levels or > light curves doesn't color correct the image. It sort of balances out > the contrast. It is a bit over sharpened and some of the highlights > are blown out, but using a second gen jpeg there is only so much you > can do like you said, because the artifacts become more apparent. For > color correction, I use color balance, selective color and hue/ > saturation as a starting point. Photo filters also work if there is > an overall colorization for whatever reason. Burning and dodging also > helps balance out the values of specific areas of the image. > Sometimes I will bring images in after effects and shake if I need a > lot of control over gamma curves etc. but usually I can color correct > massive images in photoshop without using other software. > > Anyway, just saw my chance to talk about something I know about ;) > If you ever need any advanced tips let me know. > > D > > On Oct 9, 2006, at 10:29 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > Just photoshop and it wasn't enhancement just setting the black and > > white > > points which more or less corrects the color. I did a luminosity > > sharpen > > too. Took about 15 seconds all told. There's only so much you can > > do on a > > second generation jpeg before the image starts falling apart and > > this is at > > that limit. You need an original to do more. > > > > If you have PS I can give you a more detailed set of instructions > > on how to > > do it. > > > > BK > > > > > > > > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > >> > >> That is like magic. What software are you using for photo > >> enhancement? > >> That picture really came close (but it is still not quite green > >> enough)! > >> > >> Kreigh > >> > >> > >> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >> > > >> > Better photo than those others: is this a better version > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > BK > >> > > >> > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > >> > > > >> > > I put a pic of one of my Trinitite specimens up at > >> > > > >> > > http://Tomaszewski.net/Images/0770a.jpg > >> > > > >> > > It comes close to the specimen in my hand, but the picture is > >> still > >> not > >> > > as green as it should be. > >> > > > >> > > Kreigh > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > I moved it over to my calibrated monitor and can see the the > >> green > >> > > there. > >> > > > > >> > > > BK > >> > > > > >> > > > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > I have a couple specimens of trinitite, and I've seen > >> others in > >> > > > > institutional collections. You can see the hint of muddy > >> green in > >> the > >> > > > > photos you referenced (at least it was clear on my > >> monitor), but > >> in > >> > > all > >> > > > > the specimens I've personally seen the green was just a > >> little > >> more > >> > > > > visible (but not much). Those are actually pretty good > >> photos if > >> you > >> > > > > look at the full size individual pictures. Interesting link. > >> Thanks! > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Kreigh > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > And interestingly here is a gallery of trinite photos: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Med/Trinitite.html > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > I always heard that is was green but apparently not. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > BK > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > J Bryan Kramer > > photos at: > > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From darren at offtherackpro.com Mon Oct 9 20:36:40 2006 From: darren at offtherackpro.com (Darren D'Agostino) Date: Mon Oct 9 20:36:44 2006 Subject: Trinitite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] USGS has Korean nuke test at Mag. 4.2} In-Reply-To: References: <004001c6eb63$d09a2350$18fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <452AEC65.6869@Tomaszewski.net> <452AFC14.C18@Tomaszewski.net> <452B02CA.900@Tomaszewski.net> <3C28CBD3-5B34-4CFF-9C06-031E86E33876@offtherackpro.com> Message-ID: You will get value shifts not hue shifts unless you adjust the points for individual channels. You may get a slight shift in color if you're not choosing pixels that are black/white or are meant to be, i.e not desaturated. I use a set of tools that works for everything from print to feature films, it's my own method. And changing the color of a pixel, especially just it's value (lightness or darkness) isn't color correcting. Color correcting is (oddly enough) correcting the colors, or at least making them look how you want them to by removing other colors from them or adding to them, i.e. removing magenta from reds to make them look more yellow. Selective color allows you to add/remove specific colors from other colors which makes it very easy to do corrections quickly. at any rate do as you wish, I'm just offering advice from years of experience that helps get things done efficiently. On Oct 9, 2006, at 11:22 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Well this isn't the place for it but setting the black and white > points does > correct color to a certain extent, you will see color shifts when > you do it. > You may be using a different method, I use Kelby's. > > BK > > On 10/9/06, Darren D'Agostino wrote: >> >> just so you know, setting the black and white points with levels or >> light curves doesn't color correct the image. It sort of balances out >> the contrast. It is a bit over sharpened and some of the highlights >> are blown out, but using a second gen jpeg there is only so much you >> can do like you said, because the artifacts become more apparent. For >> color correction, I use color balance, selective color and hue/ >> saturation as a starting point. Photo filters also work if there is >> an overall colorization for whatever reason. Burning and dodging also >> helps balance out the values of specific areas of the image. >> Sometimes I will bring images in after effects and shake if I need a >> lot of control over gamma curves etc. but usually I can color correct >> massive images in photoshop without using other software. >> >> Anyway, just saw my chance to talk about something I know about ;) >> If you ever need any advanced tips let me know. >> >> D >> >> On Oct 9, 2006, at 10:29 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> >> > Just photoshop and it wasn't enhancement just setting the black and >> > white >> > points which more or less corrects the color. I did a luminosity >> > sharpen >> > too. Took about 15 seconds all told. There's only so much you can >> > do on a >> > second generation jpeg before the image starts falling apart and >> > this is at >> > that limit. You need an original to do more. >> > >> > If you have PS I can give you a more detailed set of instructions >> > on how to >> > do it. >> > >> > BK >> > >> > >> > >> > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> >> >> >> That is like magic. What software are you using for photo >> >> enhancement? >> >> That picture really came close (but it is still not quite green >> >> enough)! >> >> >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> >> >> J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Better photo than those others: is this a better version >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > BK >> >> > >> >> > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > I put a pic of one of my Trinitite specimens up at >> >> > > >> >> > > http://Tomaszewski.net/Images/0770a.jpg >> >> > > >> >> > > It comes close to the specimen in my hand, but the picture is >> >> still >> >> not >> >> > > as green as it should be. >> >> > > >> >> > > Kreigh >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> >> > > > >> >> > > > I moved it over to my calibrated monitor and can see the the >> >> green >> >> > > there. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > BK >> >> > > > >> >> > > > On 10/9/06, Kreigh Tomaszewski >> wrote: >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > I have a couple specimens of trinitite, and I've seen >> >> others in >> >> > > > > institutional collections. You can see the hint of muddy >> >> green in >> >> the >> >> > > > > photos you referenced (at least it was clear on my >> >> monitor), but >> >> in >> >> > > all >> >> > > > > the specimens I've personally seen the green was just a >> >> little >> >> more >> >> > > > > visible (but not much). Those are actually pretty good >> >> photos if >> >> you >> >> > > > > look at the full size individual pictures. Interesting >> link. >> >> Thanks! >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > Kreigh >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > And interestingly here is a gallery of trinite photos: >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Usa/Med/Trinitite.html >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > I always heard that is was green but apparently not. >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > > > BK >> >> >> >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> >> Subscription Services: >> >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > J Bryan Kramer >> > photos at: >> > http://pbase.com/photoburner >> > >> > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > multipart/alternative >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > text/html >> > --- >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From johnjold at comcast.net Tue Oct 10 06:20:53 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Tue Oct 10 06:21:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 600+ carat diamond sold Message-ID: <05513ee6ea51f9313324b453e075f8ac@comcast.net> Large rough diamond found in Aug sold for $12 million. 15th largest ever found. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6034429.stm From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Oct 10 08:42:27 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Oct 10 08:42:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cutting Blue Flash Moonstone In-Reply-To: <869240d33740434c5a6cc7a34726f90a@nbnet.nb.ca> References: <7aac8040610092001n1a9cf88wffcff499387007ae@mail.gmail.com> <869240d33740434c5a6cc7a34726f90a@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <7aac8040610100842m34f59cfet5d5827348f720298@mail.gmail.com> Hans, Thanks for the primer, I will see about cutting a peice this week, hopefully I can get the hang of it! Thanks, Drew On 10/9/06, Hans Durstling wrote: > > Hi Drew, > > What I'd do is orient the moonstone the same way you do labradorite, a > close relative with similar optical effect. > > Hold the stone looking directly down at it with a single bright light > bulb directly overhead; turn the stone until you get maximum flash; > then, holding that orientation, dip it slowly half way into water. Mark > the line the water has made around the stone and cut parallel to that > line. That gives you the base of the stone. Or you can do the same > thing with the overhead light but stick the stone in some sort of putty > on the tabletop; orient it for maximum flash as before and mark a line > around it with a felt pen parallel to the table top and cut parallel to > that line. > > Cheers, > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > > > On 10-Oct-06, at 12:01 AM, Drew wrote: > > > I bought about 8 small chunks of blue flash moonstone at the Grassy > > Creek > > (NC) show this year. They are smallish chunks, 1" on average, and > > look to > > be rough tumbled. There is some striking blue flash on some of the > > edges. > > I am really new to cabbing, much less cutting special lapidary > > material like > > this. How should I cut these on to maximize flash? > > > > Thanks, > > Drew > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Oct 10 17:21:00 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Oct 10 17:21:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Exaclibur Minerals closing analytical services Message-ID: <452C38EC.4070004@verizon.net> Wow, I just got this today. Looks like we've lost another reasonably priced source of ID. Disappointed Don -------- Original Message -------- Here is our latest: EXCALIBUR CATALOG #20604 - Vol. XXXII, No. 4 NOTICE: ANALYTICAL SERVICES CLOSED We have closed our analytical services laboratory to outside work, effective August 31. Due to excessive volume, we have experienced unacceptable customer delays and costly repairs resulting from over-use and wear and tear on our equipment. After much consideration, we have decided to suspend our mineral identification services beyond our own in-house needs until further notice. Pending significant capital expenditures to upgrade the equipment and hire additional trained personnel to handle the high volume of work, we will no longer accept outside analytical work. We apologize to our many clients who have come to rely on these below-market priced services, but it is no longer economically feasible to offer them with our current facilities and staff. From turnea55 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 10 19:25:30 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Tue Oct 10 19:25:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Exaclibur Minerals closing analytical services In-Reply-To: <452C38EC.4070004@verizon.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the info. It is very unfortunate but not suprising. Tony (the owner) is a really nice guy, but an SEM is very difficult to maitain by yourself. This is especially true if you operate it as much as he probably does. Just minor parts (e.g. new filaments) run hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Any minor repairs or adjustments and you are looking at paying someone $500-$1000/hr or so including travel and excluding any replacement parts. As the equipment gets older, maintanence prices go even higher. On a side note, several years ago I was actually looking to be hired by Tony to help him run the SEM as well as help him run his mineral business. I had an interview set up and everything. However, I ended up finding a job before that. I would have absolutely loved doing that type of work, and I had actually used SEM's for several years before this. It was just too difficult as I would never be able to afford living near NYC, especially by myself. I would imagine this is why it is hard to find trained personnel (same problems museums have). Anyone with this training and mineral enthusiasm would probably find it very difficult to afford to live there even if he was willing to probably make less money. This is exactly what I ran into. Had the location been different, circumstances definitely may have changed. >From: DonH >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: [Rockhounds] Exaclibur Minerals closing analytical services >Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:21:00 -0700 > > >Wow, I just got this today. Looks like we've lost another reasonably >priced source of ID. > >Disappointed Don > > >-------- Original Message -------- > >Here is our latest: > >EXCALIBUR CATALOG #20604 - Vol. XXXII, No. 4 > > >NOTICE: ANALYTICAL SERVICES CLOSED > > We have closed our analytical services laboratory to outside > work, effective August 31. Due to excessive volume, we have > experienced unacceptable customer delays and costly repairs > resulting from over-use and wear and tear on our equipment. After > much consideration, we have decided to suspend our mineral > identification services beyond our own in-house needs until > further notice. Pending significant capital expenditures to > upgrade the equipment and hire additional trained personnel to > handle the high volume of work, we will no longer accept outside > analytical work. We apologize to our many clients who have come > to rely on these below-market priced services, but it is no > longer economically feasible to offer them with our current > facilities and staff. > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Oct 10 19:44:34 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Oct 10 19:44:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Exaclibur Minerals closing analytical services References: <452C38EC.4070004@verizon.net> Message-ID: <452C5A84.6A3E@Tomaszewski.net> Bummer! DonH wrote: > > Wow, I just got this today. Looks like we've lost another reasonably > priced source of ID. > > Disappointed Don > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Here is our latest: > > EXCALIBUR CATALOG #20604 - Vol. XXXII, No. 4 > > NOTICE: ANALYTICAL SERVICES CLOSED > > We have closed our analytical services laboratory to outside > work, effective August 31. Due to excessive volume, we have > experienced unacceptable customer delays and costly repairs > resulting from over-use and wear and tear on our equipment. After > much consideration, we have decided to suspend our mineral > identification services beyond our own in-house needs until > further notice. Pending significant capital expenditures to > upgrade the equipment and hire additional trained personnel to > handle the high volume of work, we will no longer accept outside > analytical work. We apologize to our many clients who have come > to rely on these below-market priced services, but it is no > longer economically feasible to offer them with our current > facilities and staff. From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Oct 10 22:13:16 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Oct 10 22:13:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Super Iron Out rumor Message-ID: <000d01c6ecf3$f7e81cf0$40faf604@TheBlackAdder> FYI.........Regarding the rumor that Super Iron Out will soon be unobtanium. Here's a link to the Super Iron Out web site. Nothing about discontinuing the product, and it's the top selling rust remover for all applications. http://www.ironout.com/brands/IronOut.aspx I checked Snopes.com the online rumor clearing house, and nothing at all on this product. I don't remember who told me "definitely" that it was no longer made. In the past week I bought 14, 5 lb. containers of it "just in case". If anyone hears something definite, please email me. Erich --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Oct 10 22:24:48 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Oct 10 22:22:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Super Iron Out rumor In-Reply-To: <000d01c6ecf3$f7e81cf0$40faf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <000d01c6ecf3$f7e81cf0$40faf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <452C8020.9000806@verizon.net> Erich Kern wrote: > FYI.........Regarding the rumor that Super Iron Out will soon be unobtanium. > > Here's a link to the Super Iron Out web site. Nothing about discontinuing the product, and it's the top selling rust remover for all applications. Ummm.... what rumor? I'd hate to see that product go... it's too useful to many people, including collectors! Don From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 09:02:46 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Oct 11 09:02:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <20061011160246.61657.qmail@web34312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It's time for another update of the price list of micro material on www.sauktown.com This month most of the material is from western Europe. There are more new items than usual, because many are in short supply- one or two of each. Next month I'll have the first installment of a collection I'm breaking up. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From RskRock2000 at aol.com Wed Oct 11 18:19:21 2006 From: RskRock2000 at aol.com (RskRock2000@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 11 18:19:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] KY/IL Fluorite Trip Update & Invitation Message-ID: Nate, Now that I have made it through the first few days back at work, I thought I would write a quick note to you. Thank you for leading all of us on a wonderful field trip. I know it takes a lot of effort to make all the arrangements and to make it all happen. And it went so smoothly. I much enjoyed getting to know you and the other BMC members. I am very pleased that you suggested I join the Club as well as go on the trip. Thanks again, Sid --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pttrefrn at triwest.net Wed Oct 11 20:15:16 2006 From: pttrefrn at triwest.net (Ron and Pat Potter-Efron) Date: Wed Oct 11 20:15:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Super Iron Out rumor In-Reply-To: <452C8020.9000806@verizon.net> Message-ID: <002401c6edac$a3d54a20$0201a8c0@EMACHINEDESKTOP> Where's the link????? Pat -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 12:25 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Super Iron Out rumor Erich Kern wrote: > FYI.........Regarding the rumor that Super Iron Out will soon be unobtanium. > > Here's a link to the Super Iron Out web site. Nothing about discontinuing the product, and it's the top selling rust remover for all applications. Ummm.... what rumor? I'd hate to see that product go... it's too useful to many people, including collectors! Don -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.1/470 - Release Date: 10/10/2006 From efkern at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 21:08:04 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Wed Oct 11 21:07:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Super Iron Out rumor References: <002401c6edac$a3d54a20$0201a8c0@EMACHINEDESKTOP> Message-ID: <001001c6edb4$0497c7f0$b0faf604@TheBlackAdder> It was in the original post. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron and Pat Potter-Efron" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:15 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] The Super Iron Out rumor Where's the link????? Pat -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 12:25 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] The Super Iron Out rumor Erich Kern wrote: > FYI.........Regarding the rumor that Super Iron Out will soon be unobtanium. > > Here's a link to the Super Iron Out web site. Nothing about discontinuing the product, and it's the top selling rust remover for all applications. Ummm.... what rumor? I'd hate to see that product go... it's too useful to many people, including collectors! Don -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.1/470 - Release Date: 10/10/2006 -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pletschtom at comcast.net Thu Oct 12 07:14:23 2006 From: pletschtom at comcast.net (pletschtom@comcast.net) Date: Thu Oct 12 10:25:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rose Quartz question Message-ID: <101220061414.17604.452E4DBF0000F17B000044C4220075074403019B080C9C9B0A049F@comcast.net> Hello Dan Z, I have what i believe is a large Rose Quartz stone approximately 3.5" x 3.5" x 2.5" in size. I am looking for someone that may be able to help me identify it and who may be able to find a buyer. Let me know if this may be of interest. Thanks, Tom --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bg at his.com Thu Oct 12 10:34:10 2006 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Thu Oct 12 10:34:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] gail o. clark Message-ID: <460f2dee9ffe0c694e920eb5ba570d19@his.com> does anyone know how to contact gail o. clark? she write sometimes for rock and gem. please send any contact info OFF LINE to respect her privacy. thanks, cathy From albalmer at att.net Thu Oct 12 11:12:28 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Oct 12 11:12:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rose Quartz question In-Reply-To: <101220061414.17604.452E4DBF0000F17B000044C4220075074403019B080C9C9B0A049F@comcast.net> References: <101220061414.17604.452E4DBF0000F17B000044C4220075074403019B080C9C9B0A049F@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:14:23 +0000, pletschtom@comcast.net wrote: >Hello Dan Z, > >I have what i believe is a large Rose Quartz stone approximately 3.5" x 3.5" x 2.5" in size. I am looking for someone that may be able to help me identify it and who may be able to find a buyer. > If it's a typical specimen, put it on a shelf and admire it. It's worth somewhere on the order of $10. If it's facet grade, that's a different matter. Can you post a picture somewhere? -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From luka2 at telkomsa.net Thu Oct 12 11:17:38 2006 From: luka2 at telkomsa.net (Luka Berkovic) Date: Thu Oct 12 11:17:49 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] namibia Message-ID: <000301c6ee2a$b3b02360$4946ef9b@luka> Hi would anyone be interested in purchasing aquamarine from Namibia. Thanks Luka Berkovic --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Oct 12 12:09:31 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Oct 12 12:09:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hydrothermal formations Message-ID: Here's an interesting article about hydrothermal formations, gold in particular < http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Livesciencecom/~3/36488164/061012_ladolam_gold.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Oct 12 17:15:15 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Oct 12 17:15:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 600+ carat diamond sold In-Reply-To: <05513ee6ea51f9313324b453e075f8ac@comcast.net> References: <05513ee6ea51f9313324b453e075f8ac@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 10/10/06, John Joldersma wrote: > Large rough diamond found in Aug sold for $12 million. > 15th largest ever found. > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6034429.stm > Yes, it's a real beauty. I thought about buying it for my wife but before I could figure out how many banks I would have to rob to get the $12,000,000, I ran out of toes and fingers. (is that enough zeros in the $ amount?) I've got some pieces of quartz that big; clear, Smokey, Rose, or some other color. She can have one of them. Grant From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Oct 12 17:29:31 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Oct 12 17:29:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rose Quartz question In-Reply-To: References: <101220061414.17604.452E4DBF0000F17B000044C4220075074403019B080C9C9B0A049F@comcast.net> Message-ID: On 10/12/06, Al Balmer wrote: > On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:14:23 +0000, pletschtom@comcast.net wrote: > > >Hello Dan Z, > > > >I have what i believe is a large Rose Quartz stone approximately 3.5" x 3.5" x 2.5" in size. I am looking for someone that may be able to help me identify it and who may be able to find a buyer. > > > If it's a typical specimen, put it on a shelf and admire it. It's worth somewhere on the order of $10. If it's facet grade, that's a different matter. > I've got a $10 piece of rose quartz in my front yard. Last March I was passing through Quartzsite and stopped at a rock yard. The guy running it had bought the inventory that other people didn't want to haul home. I picked out a big piece because it was going in my front yard. It had to be big enough to be seen and too heavy to be easily carted away. I think it's 20 pounds. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Oct 12 18:14:00 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Oct 12 18:14:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs (and labradorite) References: <20061010004535.69799.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <010201c6ee64$de06dd90$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> I've had a problem polishing Labradorite also, but I'm getting better results using a very copious slurry of cerium oxide on a slow turning leather disk. I'm now getting a good gloss, but I'd still like to know how best to fill in all the little crevices in the stuff. And if you find a good lapidary list, let me know! Jeanette www.cabbingfever.com (A work in progress) > There is also an ulterior motive to my asking about lapidary lists, and > that is that I CANNOT get Madagascar labradorite to polish without > undercutting. In Madagascar they seem to be able to do it - polish the > stuff to an almost glass-smooth surface. But if I take such a piece and > cut small stones from it it doesn't matter whether I use tin oxide on > leather, cerium oxide on leather, or grease-base 14,000 diamond on a hard > felt wheel; the result is the same - undercut undercut undercut. So I need > a good lapidary list to pose this puzzle to. > > Or if anyone on the rockhounds list has an answer - I will listen > gratefully... > > From albalmer at att.net Fri Oct 13 08:41:07 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Oct 13 08:44:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rose Quartz question In-Reply-To: References: <101220061414.17604.452E4DBF0000F17B000044C4220075074403019B080C9C9B0A049F@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 17:29:31 -0700, "Grant Johnston" wrote: >On 10/12/06, Al Balmer wrote: >> On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:14:23 +0000, pletschtom@comcast.net wrote: >> >> >Hello Dan Z, >> > >> >I have what i believe is a large Rose Quartz stone approximately 3.5" x 3.5" x 2.5" in size. I am looking for someone that may be able to help me identify it and who may be able to find a buyer. >> > >> If it's a typical specimen, put it on a shelf and admire it. It's worth somewhere on the order of $10. If it's facet grade, that's a different matter. >> > >I've got a $10 piece of rose quartz in my front yard. Last March I was >passing through Quartzsite and stopped at a rock yard. The guy running >it had bought the inventory that other people didn't want to haul >home. > >I picked out a big piece because it was going in my front yard. It had >to be big enough to be seen and too heavy to be easily carted away. I >think it's 20 pounds. > Yep. Massive rose quartz is available cheap in Quartzsite even during the shows. It costs a bit more on e-bay. I typically get to Quartzsite half a dozen times during Jan and Feb. It's only two hours away for me. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 19:48:43 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Oct 13 19:48:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rose Quartz in the yard Message-ID: <20061014024843.10155.qmail@web56307.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi All: I have a piece of rose quartz in the yard that Martha found in Maine when we visited Poland Mining Camp and various quarries up there. It appears to be fading (have faded) out in our not very sunny yard. So if you're attached to the rosyness of the rose quartz, maybe you should put it on the porch? JR --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Oct 13 20:29:58 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Oct 13 20:26:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rose Quartz in the yard References: <20061014024843.10155.qmail@web56307.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <453058EA.3D48@Tomaszewski.net> I've got a 50 lb chunk of rose quartz next to my fireplace, keeping an 80 lb chunk of hematite and chalcopyrite (in dolomite) company. Living rooms are a lot more comfortable than front porches (for most of the year in Michigan). Kreigh J. R. Hodel wrote: > > Hi All: > > I have a piece of rose quartz in the yard that Martha found in Maine when we visited Poland Mining Camp and various quarries up there. It appears to be fading (have faded) out in our not very sunny yard. > > So if you're attached to the rosyness of the rose quartz, maybe you should put it on the porch? > > JR > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Oct 14 20:59:11 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Oct 14 20:59:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] earth's wobble and extinction Message-ID: Interesting study of wobble on this big rock. http://www.world-science.net/othernews/061011_orbit.htm From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Oct 15 06:40:41 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Oct 15 06:40:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii hotspot story Message-ID: Here's and interesting story of the Hawaiian hotspot: -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Sun Oct 15 10:16:33 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Oct 15 10:16:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii hotspot story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c6f07d$a9ec6d20$0200a8c0@kadok> Yes! Interesting. When I was in Hawaii last year, at an Elderhostel, I learned this, and more. The Hawaiian Islands are just the most recent in a long chain of islands, reaching much further south, that grew up one of a few at a time over this hot spot, and that have all now suffered the same fate that the story has predicted for Hawaii. The Pacific plate is moving slowly north, and diving under Alaska. Margaret >Here's and interesting story of the Hawaiian hotspot: -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS ------------------------------------------------------ Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 19410532) is spam: Spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=19410532&m=0029f42c5fc3 Not spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=19410532&m=0029f42c5fc3 Forget vote: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=19410532&m=0029f42c5fc3 ------------------------------------------------------ END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS From roughrock at gmail.com Sun Oct 15 13:12:58 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sun Oct 15 13:13:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii 6 + earthquake Message-ID: A 6+ EARTHQUAKE HIT NEAR Hawaii this AM. I have radio news on and heard a shortreport. On 10/15/06, Margaret Malm wrote: > Yes! Interesting. > When I was in Hawaii last year, at an Elderhostel, I learned this, and > more. > The Hawaiian Islands are just the most recent in a long chain of islands, > reaching much further south, that grew up one of a few at a time over this > hot spot, and that have all now suffered the same fate that the story has > predicted for Hawaii. The Pacific plate is moving slowly north, and diving > under Alaska. > > Margaret > > >Here's and interesting story of the Hawaiian hotspot: > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 19410532) is spam: > Spam: > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=19410532&m=0029f42c5fc3 > Not spam: > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=19410532&m=0029f42c5fc3 > Forget vote: > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=19410532&m=0029f42c5fc3 > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sun Oct 15 13:57:54 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Oct 15 13:57:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii 6 + earthquake In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061015104223.040997a0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Most frightening earthquake we have seen in our experience here since 1972. Shaking seemed to go on forever. No serious damage to our house, but every shelf in every room had things fall off. All our glass cabinets survived, but many vases, figurines etc are broken. Most of the books in the study are on the floor. Lots of rocks fell off shelves. Power is on at our house, but most of the rest of the Big Island, and almost all of Oahu is without electricity, and also some of Maui and Kauai. There's chaos at Honolulu airport because there's no power. All state airports are closed. Libraries and grocery stores have empty shelves and littered floors, and in some cases the shelves have fallen over. So far injuries are reported as some broken limbs and lacerations, but no deaths...yet. Several large stores had ceilings fall. Roads are closed in many places because of rock slides. It was "only" 6.5, and there have been larger ones -- like in 1975 and 1983 -- but this one seems worse and more widespread. We're still getting aftershocks! Aloha, Kitty & Bill At 10:12 AM 10/15/2006, you wrote: >A 6+ EARTHQUAKE HIT NEAR Hawaii this AM. I have radio news on and >heard a shortreport. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Oct 15 16:46:09 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Oct 15 16:43:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii 6 + earthquake References: Message-ID: <4532C79A.446D@Tomaszewski.net> Main quake Region: HAWAII REGION, HAWAII Geographic coordinates: 19.842N, 156.058W Magnitude: 6.3 Mw Depth: 24 km Universal Time (UTC): 15 Oct 2006 17:07:48 Time near the Epicenter: 15 Oct 2006 07:07:48 Local time in your area: 15 Oct 2006 17:07:48 Location with respect to nearby cities: 14 km (9 miles) NNW (337 degrees) of Kalaoa, HI 23 km (14 miles) NNW (344 degrees) of Kailua, HI 23 km (14 miles) WSW (244 degrees) of Puako, HI 103 km (64 miles) W (279 degrees) of Hilo, HI 246 km (153 miles) SE (131 degrees) of Honolulu, HI Aftershock Region: HAWAII REGION, HAWAII Geographic coordinates: 19.946N, 156.156W Magnitude: 5.8 Mb Depth: 4 km Universal Time (UTC): 15 Oct 2006 17:14:09 Time near the Epicenter: 15 Oct 2006 07:14:09 Local time in your area: 15 Oct 2006 17:14:09 Location with respect to nearby cities: 29 km (18 miles) NNW (327 degrees) of Kalaoa, HI 30 km (19 miles) W (273 degrees) of Puako, HI 38 km (24 miles) NNW (334 degrees) of Kailua, HI 115 km (72 miles) WNW (284 degrees) of Hilo, HI 231 km (143 miles) SE (131 degrees) of Honolulu, HI Grant Johnston wrote: > > A 6+ EARTHQUAKE HIT NEAR Hawaii this AM. I have radio news on and > heard a shortreport. > > On 10/15/06, Margaret Malm wrote: > > Yes! Interesting. > > When I was in Hawaii last year, at an Elderhostel, I learned this, and > > more. > > The Hawaiian Islands are just the most recent in a long chain of islands, > > reaching much further south, that grew up one of a few at a time over this > > hot spot, and that have all now suffered the same fate that the story has > > predicted for Hawaii. The Pacific plate is moving slowly north, and diving > > under Alaska. > > > > Margaret > > > > >Here's and interesting story of the Hawaiian hotspot: > > > > > > > > -- > > J Bryan Kramer > > photos at: > > http://pbase.com/photoburner From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Oct 15 16:50:03 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Oct 15 16:47:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii 6 + earthquake References: <6.2.1.2.0.20061015104223.040997a0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <4532C884.8EC@Tomaszewski.net> ***This event has been revised. Region: ISLAND OF HAWAII, HAWAII Geographic coordinates: 19.880N, 155.937W Magnitude: 6.6 Mcd Depth: 39 km Universal Time (UTC): 15 Oct 2006 17:07:49 Time near the Epicenter: 15 Oct 2006 07:07:49 Local time in your area: 15 Oct 2006 17:07:49 Location with respect to nearby cities: 10 km (6 miles) SW (232 degrees) of Puako, HI 17 km (10 miles) WSW (246 degrees) of Waikoloa Village, HI 19 km (12 miles) NNE (22 degrees) of Kalaoa, HI 91 km (57 miles) WNW (282 degrees) of Hilo, HI 253 km (157 miles) SE (129 degrees) of Honolulu, HI Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Most frightening earthquake we have seen in our experience here since > 1972. Shaking seemed to go on forever. No serious damage to our house, > but every shelf in every room had things fall off. All our glass cabinets > survived, but many vases, figurines etc are broken. Most of the books in > the study are on the floor. Lots of rocks fell off shelves. Power is on > at our house, but most of the rest of the Big Island, and almost all of > Oahu is without electricity, and also some of Maui and Kauai. There's > chaos at Honolulu airport because there's no power. All state airports are > closed. Libraries and grocery stores have empty shelves and littered > floors, and in some cases the shelves have fallen over. So far injuries > are reported as some broken limbs and lacerations, but no > deaths...yet. Several large stores had ceilings fall. > > Roads are closed in many places because of rock slides. It was "only" 6.5, > and there have been larger ones -- like in 1975 and 1983 -- but this one > seems worse and more widespread. > > We're still getting aftershocks! > > Aloha, Kitty & Bill > > At 10:12 AM 10/15/2006, you wrote: > >A 6+ EARTHQUAKE HIT NEAR Hawaii this AM. I have radio news on and > >heard a shortreport. From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Oct 15 17:03:09 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Oct 15 17:00:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii 6 + earthquake In-Reply-To: <4532C884.8EC@Tomaszewski.net> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20061015104223.040997a0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <4532C884.8EC@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4532CC3D.3080007@verizon.net> Holy cow! There's a whole lot of shaking going on. http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/PNSN/STW_SHZ_UW.2006101512.html I wonder if the fault was destabilized by you-know-what, or if it even works like that... Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > ***This event has been revised. > > > Region: ISLAND OF HAWAII, > HAWAII > Geographic coordinates: 19.880N, 155.937W > Magnitude: 6.6 Mcd > Depth: 39 km > Universal Time (UTC): 15 Oct 2006 17:07:49 From pjmodreski at att.net Sun Oct 15 18:59:40 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sun Oct 15 18:59:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii 6 + earthquake Message-ID: <101620060159.18206.4532E78C000306390000471E216028074107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> You-know-what, Don? Oh, yes, I guess I know what you mean. No, that only works that way in Japan, where it also commonly leads to awakening of large, possibly radioactive, monsters from their subterranean or submarine homes. Good to hear that there doesn't seem to have been much injury, and that Kitty and Bill are OK, give or take some of the things (that used to be) on their shelves. Hang in there, Pete -------------- Original message from DonH : -------------- > > Holy cow! There's a whole lot of shaking going on. > > http://www.pnsn.org/WEBICORDER/PNSN/STW_SHZ_UW.2006101512.html > > I wonder if the fault was destabilized by you-know-what, or if it even > works like that... > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Sun Oct 15 19:31:14 2006 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Sun Oct 15 19:31:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Top earthquake states Message-ID: Here's a link to a USGS site that lists earthquakes by state, top to bottom. I used to want to move to Nevada, but at #4, I may rethink it! Dawn From tam2819 at cox.net Sun Oct 15 19:34:36 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Sun Oct 15 19:34:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 29, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <200610160100.k9G10odh017442@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200610160100.k9G10odh017442@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <296963E4-B02C-4E38-AF94-F959108A1ACF@cox.net> Kitty, I am thankful to see your post. I was concerned. Hopefully that was it for a very long time. Terrie From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 06:59:55 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Oct 16 06:59:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii 6 + earthquake In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20061015104223.040997a0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <20061016135955.81821.qmail@web34310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Kitty & Bill, Glad to hear you're both OK- just "shook up". Material posessions can be replaced, but you can't. Barb & Jim Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: Most frightening earthquake we have seen in our experience here since 1972. Shaking seemed to go on forever. No serious damage to our house, but every shelf in every room had things fall off. All our glass cabinets survived, but many vases, figurines etc are broken. Most of the books in the study are on the floor. Lots of rocks fell off shelves. Power is on at our house, but most of the rest of the Big Island, and almost all of Oahu is without electricity, and also some of Maui and Kauai. There's chaos at Honolulu airport because there's no power. All state airports are closed. Libraries and grocery stores have empty shelves and littered floors, and in some cases the shelves have fallen over. So far injuries are reported as some broken limbs and lacerations, but no deaths...yet. Several large stores had ceilings fall. Roads are closed in many places because of rock slides. It was "only" 6.5, and there have been larger ones -- like in 1975 and 1983 -- but this one seems worse and more widespread. We're still getting aftershocks! Aloha, Kitty & Bill At 10:12 AM 10/15/2006, you wrote: >A 6+ EARTHQUAKE HIT NEAR Hawaii this AM. I have radio news on and >heard a shortreport. -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 16 07:36:16 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Oct 16 07:36:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes Message-ID: <002601c6f130$705cec20$fc46294b@LarryRush> Andrew Alden, the internet geologist (About Geology, generally a very good educational site) reported on the Hawaii earthquake, and then made this kind of surprising statement: "But Earth would be uninhabitable today, a worn-out planet, without the tectonic activity that keeps it fresh." It's hard to appreciate the benefits of earthquakes when the walls are trembling around you, but Andrew is seeing them from a different (and maybe, oddball!) point of view! Even a geologist should be hard pressed to extol the good points of earthquakes. Uninhabitable? Methinks he needs to get his head out of the lab, and visit the damage zone for awhile! The tectonic activity that takes place over millions of years would seem to be of small consolation to the Hawaiians! Larry "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Oct 16 09:01:29 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Oct 16 09:01:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes Message-ID: <101620061601.17612.4533ACD8000B7ADB000044CC215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Now, I'm sure that Andrew Alden certainly does not mean any disrespect to any of those people in Hawaii or other thousands worldwide, whose lifes are disrupted or tragically destroyed by earthquakes. But he's really right in "the big picture". If Earth were a tectonically "dead" planet like Mars or the Moon, without any forces of uplift, erosion could conceivably just wear down the surface to the point where we might have a uniform layer of sediment, all covered by a few kilometers of salt water, with no dry land in sight, and I suppose we'd all be aquatic creatures now (perhaps intelligent?) (is there intelligent life on Earth now?). I'll admit, one could argue that if isostasy still operated, the granitic blocks of continental cratons could still be emergent above the level of the seas, so we'd still have some dry land. But then one could also argue that volcanism spreads new supplies of nutrients over the surface of the earth, without which most of the soluble, useful nutrient elements would all be leached into the seas, with minimal amounts left on land. And, if the interior were not hot, our planet would have no magnetic field, subjecting the unshielded surface to a lot unpleasant radiation. Since we don't really have any choice as to the existence of the internal forces that drive our planet, I guess this is all a pretty moot point! Pete -------------- Original message from "Lawrence Rush" : -------------- > Andrew Alden, the internet geologist (About Geology, generally a very good > educational site) reported on the Hawaii earthquake, and then made this kind of > surprising statement: > > "But Earth would be uninhabitable today, a worn-out planet, without the tectonic > activity that keeps it fresh." > > It's hard to appreciate the benefits of earthquakes when the walls are trembling > around you, but Andrew is seeing them from a different (and maybe, oddball!) > point of view! Even a geologist should be hard pressed to extol the good points > of earthquakes. Uninhabitable? Methinks he needs to get his head out of the lab, > and visit the damage zone for awhile! The tectonic activity that takes place > over millions of years would seem to be of small consolation to the Hawaiians! > > Larry > > > "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in > the mines" > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Oct 16 09:07:34 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Oct 16 09:07:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes Message-ID: <101620061607.23803.4533AE460006883700005CFB215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi List, I wanted to share this story about the perils of trying to carry rock specimens on to planes these days! Pete Subject: AIRPORT UPDATE: Confiscated Rocks > wow!!!! worth reporting? > > > >>A word to the wise: Hartford (CT) Courant, 10/05/06: >> >>No Stone Unturned >>by Robert M. Thorson >>October 5 2006 >> >>When is a rock not a rock? When you pass through airport security. >>Then it becomes a potential weapon, one capable of bringing an >>airplane down. >> >>I'm mad. I can think of a better way to combat terrorism than taking >>mineral specimens away from geologists traveling to their >>conferences. I suggest we get U.S. forces out of Iraq, where our >>blundering entry and lingering occupation are inflaming anti- >>American sentiment throughout the world. >> >>There are two versions of what happened to my specimen at Bradley >>International Airport, Hartford. In the first version, I was >>completely at fault. Out of ignorance, I broke some unwritten rule. >>Then, in the name of homeland security, the Transportation Security >>Administration took my rock away. >> >>In the second version, the federal government is at fault for not >>listing mineral specimens as prohibited items and for creating a >>climate so fearful of terrorism that it's compromising our economic >>efficiency, personal freedom and instinct to trust one another. >> >>I was traveling to Hood River, Ore., to attend the annual meeting of >>the Stone Foundation, an international organization of architects, >>sculptors, stonemasons, geologists, engravers and engineers united >>by their love of stone. >> >>To enhance my speech, I nestled one of my favorite specimens between >>my underwear and shirts in a carry-on bag because I never check >>luggage on business trips. My banded chunk of the Hebron Gneiss >>(pronounced "nice") resembled a broken slice of layer cake composed >>of licorice and cream cheese. >> >>In retrospect, I suppose I could have put the grapefruit-sized >>specimen inside my sock, swung it around my head like a mace, >>charged the cabin and attempted to hijack the flight. This, of >>course, never occurred to me until the zealous inspector declared my >>rock a "dual-use" item. >> >>"What, pray tell, is a dual-use item?" I asked. I'm afraid I chucked >>just a little, causing her to glare, withhold a satisfactory answer >>and call her supervisor. He hefted my rock, scrutinized it for a >>moment, and agreed that my specimen was indeed a dual-use item, >>meaning a potential low-tech weapon. During those uneasy moments >>when I thought I would be detained, I wondered if a doctor's >>stethoscope would also be declared a dual-use item, since it could >>be used to strangle a pilot. >> >>The inspectors did give me the option of returning to the ticket >>counter to check my specimen as baggage. However, having waited more >>than half an hour for my security clearance, I decided that I didn't >>have enough time. "Can I claim the rock when I return?" I asked. >>Their answer, a resounding "no," forced me to choose between >>possibly missing my flight, and abandoning my rock forever. >> >>I capitulated, surrendering it to that great unmarked graveyard >>where confiscated items will spend eternity. If rocks had feelings, >>my beautiful specimen would have been crying as it was hauled away. >> >>My gneiss was not without sentimental value. It has been my >>traveling companion for three years, and a touchstone for thousands >>of people who have attended my talks. And though my rock is gone for >>good, what worries me is that some analyst - perplexed by the usual >>nature of my dual-use object - will write a report to be sent up the >>bureaucratic food chain. >> >>Who knows? Perhaps your tax dollars will be used by an internal >>think tank of agency hire-ups to ponder why on earth a geologist >>would travel with a rock. Who knows? Perhaps the government will >>wiretap my phone or check my library records to see whether I have >>checked out a Koran or a book about stone-age warfare. >> >>I'm a middle-aged, balding, blond and blue-eyed Scandinavian- >>American. If the gauntlet of untrusting looks at airport security >>intimidates me, then how much worse would it be for an Arab >>American? Would the threshold weight for rock confiscation be lower? >> >>After my conference, I brought back a specimen of rhyolitic >>ignimbrite (welded volcanic ash) to mitigate the loss of my nice >>gneiss. This time, I took no chances. I put it in my carry-on bag >>and checked it as luggage to ensure that my new rock would make it >>home, which it did. >> >>What's next for airport screening? My dual-use laptop? >> >>Robert M. Thorson is a professor of geology at the University of >>Connecticut and a member of The Courant's Place Board of >>Contributors. His column appears every Thursday. He can be reached >>at profthorson@hotmail.com. >>Copyright 2006, Hartford Courant --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Mon Oct 16 09:41:15 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Mon Oct 16 09:41:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: <101620061607.23803.4533AE460006883700005CFB215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <101620061607.23803.4533AE460006883700005CFB215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: Pete, Last weekend I led a Boston Mineral Club fieldtrip to Marion, KY and Cave-in-Rock, IL to collect fluorite. On the return flight I had specimens stashed away everywhere including all four checked suitcases (I was traveling with my fiance) and my carry-on bag. My carry-on had at least 15 lbs of rocks in it and it went through security in Nashville without so much as a second look. Back in April on a similar trip I had prize fluorite specimen about the size of a small football in my carry-on bag. The inspector decided to take a look at that one because it was opaque to the x-rays but then let me take it on board after determining that it was indeed "just a rock". I guess it depends on which airport you fly out of. I won't be scheduling any flights out of Hartford anytime soon! Nate Martin Lexington, MA P.S. - to keep my bags under the 50 lb weight limit I recently purchased a 75 lb luggage scale from Magellans.com. It was a lifesaver on this trip as it allowed me to get three of the four bags just under 50 lbs during packing so that things went smoothly at the airport. It was less than $15 including shipping. If anyone else is interested the URL for this item is http://www.magellans.com/store/Packing_Aids___Packing_OrganizersKT689?Args=&refchan=Search On 10/16/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Hi List, > > I wanted to share this story about the perils of trying to carry rock > specimens on to planes these days! > > Pete > > > Subject: AIRPORT UPDATE: Confiscated Rocks > > > wow!!!! worth reporting? > > > > > > > >>A word to the wise: Hartford (CT) Courant, 10/05/06: > >> > >>No Stone Unturned > >>by Robert M. Thorson > >>October 5 2006 > >> > >>When is a rock not a rock? When you pass through airport security. > >>Then it becomes a potential weapon, one capable of bringing an > >>airplane down. > >> > >> > >>After my conference, I brought back a specimen of rhyolitic > >>ignimbrite (welded volcanic ash) to mitigate the loss of my nice > >>gneiss. This time, I took no chances. I put it in my carry-on bag > >>and checked it as luggage to ensure that my new rock would make it > >>home, which it did. > >> snip >>What's next for airport screening? My dual-use laptop? > >> > >>Robert M. Thorson is a professor of geology at the University of > >>Connecticut and a member of The Courant's Place Board of > >>Contributors. His column appears every Thursday. He can be reached > >>at profthorson@hotmail.com. > >>Copyright 2006, Hartford Courant > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Mon Oct 16 10:44:30 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Oct 16 10:44:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 29, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <296963E4-B02C-4E38-AF94-F959108A1ACF@cox.net> Message-ID: <000601c6f14a$bc156330$0200a8c0@kadok> Yes, Kitty, I'm glad to know your are OK, and am sorry to hear of all your damage. I think you'll be getting aftershocks for some time. I still remember the Northridge quake, from when I lived in SoCal.; we were having them for a long time afterwards. And now I live right on the Hurricane Fault.(Said to be second only to the San Andreas in damage potential!) There's one thing to be said for collecting rocks -- you don't have to worry much about them getting broken! <;--}} I have a friend in Honolulu that I'm wondering about. She lives in a condo apartment on a hillside --. Did you hear anything about damage there (other than power outage?) Being over 100 miles from the epicenter, I'm hopeful that everything's OK there. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Masters Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 7:35 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 29, Issue 16 Kitty, I am thankful to see your post. I was concerned. Hopefully that was it for a very long time. Terrie -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS ------------------------------------------------------ Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 19576700) is spam: Spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=19576700&m=f0d4ab271e7e Not spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=19576700&m=f0d4ab271e7e Forget vote: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=19576700&m=f0d4ab271e7e ------------------------------------------------------ END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Mon Oct 16 11:43:02 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (MICHAEL SCHMIDT) Date: Mon Oct 16 11:44:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: <101620061607.23803.4533AE460006883700005CFB215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <101620061607.23803.4533AE460006883700005CFB215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: ever wonder why they don't ban pens or pencils on planes? think about it? How lethal a weapon is a pen or a pencil? You could kill someone in a second with one, yet they are not prohibited because EVERYONE has one. Which in itself only goes to show what a complete crock of sh** security regualtions for airports are... Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: pjmodreski@att.net Date: Monday, October 16, 2006 10:07 am Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes > Hi List, > > I wanted to share this story about the perils of trying to carry > rock specimens on to planes these days! > > Pete > > > Subject: AIRPORT UPDATE: Confiscated Rocks > > > wow!!!! worth reporting? > > > > > > > >>A word to the wise: Hartford (CT) Courant, 10/05/06: > >> > >>No Stone Unturned > >>by Robert M. Thorson > >>October 5 2006 > >> > >>When is a rock not a rock? When you pass through airport security. > >>Then it becomes a potential weapon, one capable of bringing an > >>airplane down. > >> > >>I'm mad. I can think of a better way to combat terrorism than taking > >>mineral specimens away from geologists traveling to their > >>conferences. I suggest we get U.S. forces out of Iraq, where our > >>blundering entry and lingering occupation are inflaming anti- > >>American sentiment throughout the world. > >> > >>There are two versions of what happened to my specimen at Bradley > >>International Airport, Hartford. In the first version, I was > >>completely at fault. Out of ignorance, I broke some unwritten rule. > >>Then, in the name of homeland security, the Transportation Security > >>Administration took my rock away. > >> > >>In the second version, the federal government is at fault for not > >>listing mineral specimens as prohibited items and for creating a > >>climate so fearful of terrorism that it's compromising our economic > >>efficiency, personal freedom and instinct to trust one another. > >> > >>I was traveling to Hood River, Ore., to attend the annual > meeting of > >>the Stone Foundation, an international organization of architects, > >>sculptors, stonemasons, geologists, engravers and engineers united > >>by their love of stone. > >> > >>To enhance my speech, I nestled one of my favorite specimens between > >>my underwear and shirts in a carry-on bag because I never check > >>luggage on business trips. My banded chunk of the Hebron Gneiss > >>(pronounced "nice") resembled a broken slice of layer cake composed > >>of licorice and cream cheese. > >> > >>In retrospect, I suppose I could have put the grapefruit-sized > >>specimen inside my sock, swung it around my head like a mace, > >>charged the cabin and attempted to hijack the flight. This, of > >>course, never occurred to me until the zealous inspector > declared my > >>rock a "dual-use" item. > >> > >>"What, pray tell, is a dual-use item?" I asked. I'm afraid I chucked > >>just a little, causing her to glare, withhold a satisfactory answer > >>and call her supervisor. He hefted my rock, scrutinized it for a > >>moment, and agreed that my specimen was indeed a dual-use item, > >>meaning a potential low-tech weapon. During those uneasy moments > >>when I thought I would be detained, I wondered if a doctor's > >>stethoscope would also be declared a dual-use item, since it could > >>be used to strangle a pilot. > >> > >>The inspectors did give me the option of returning to the ticket > >>counter to check my specimen as baggage. However, having waited more > >>than half an hour for my security clearance, I decided that I didn't > >>have enough time. "Can I claim the rock when I return?" I asked. > >>Their answer, a resounding "no," forced me to choose between > >>possibly missing my flight, and abandoning my rock forever. > >> > >>I capitulated, surrendering it to that great unmarked graveyard > >>where confiscated items will spend eternity. If rocks had feelings, > >>my beautiful specimen would have been crying as it was hauled away. > >> > >>My gneiss was not without sentimental value. It has been my > >>traveling companion for three years, and a touchstone for thousands > >>of people who have attended my talks. And though my rock is gone for > >>good, what worries me is that some analyst - perplexed by the usual > >>nature of my dual-use object - will write a report to be sent up the > >>bureaucratic food chain. > >> > >>Who knows? Perhaps your tax dollars will be used by an internal > >>think tank of agency hire-ups to ponder why on earth a geologist > >>would travel with a rock. Who knows? Perhaps the government will > >>wiretap my phone or check my library records to see whether I have > >>checked out a Koran or a book about stone-age warfare. > >> > >>I'm a middle-aged, balding, blond and blue-eyed Scandinavian- > >>American. If the gauntlet of untrusting looks at airport security > >>intimidates me, then how much worse would it be for an Arab > >>American? Would the threshold weight for rock confiscation be lower? > >> > >>After my conference, I brought back a specimen of rhyolitic > >>ignimbrite (welded volcanic ash) to mitigate the loss of my nice > >>gneiss. This time, I took no chances. I put it in my carry-on bag > >>and checked it as luggage to ensure that my new rock would make it > >>home, which it did. > >> > >>What's next for airport screening? My dual-use laptop? > >> > >>Robert M. Thorson is a professor of geology at the University of > >>Connecticut and a member of The Courant's Place Board of > >>Contributors. His column appears every Thursday. He can be reached > >>at profthorson@hotmail.com. > >>Copyright 2006, Hartford Courant > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From albalmer at att.net Mon Oct 16 11:47:48 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Oct 16 11:47:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: <101620061607.23803.4533AE460006883700005CFB215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <101620061607.23803.4533AE460006883700005CFB215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:07:34 +0000, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >Hi List, > >I wanted to share this story about the perils of trying to carry rock specimens on to planes these days! A professor of geology with little common sense, seizing an opportunity to complain about the government and showcase his anti-war sentiments. Apparently on the return trip, someone told him about checked luggage. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dr00bert at gmail.com Mon Oct 16 12:19:16 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Mon Oct 16 12:19:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: References: <101620061607.23803.4533AE460006883700005CFB215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <7aac8040610161219w58b6ec1bg297e588258f47cb1@mail.gmail.com> A curmudgeon with too much pride, seizing an opportunity to complain about anything and showcase his nationalism. Robert Thorson said that he was at fault, but I hardly agree, because it says nothing on the TSA site about rock or mineral specimens being prohibited, here is the site, http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm. No mention of dual use on that entire page, just a definition on a different page (which also mentions a list of dual-use items, but I cannot find that list), http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Aviation_and_Transportation_Security_Act_ATSA_Public_Law_107_1771.pdf Personally, I found the post to be helpful, because I had never thought about rock/mineral specimens being "dual-use" items. I mean if you really want to get down and dirty, then you better check everything, because anything can be used to kill someone. A pen/pencil (as mentioned) can be used, a CD can be broken and used to cut/stab, a laptop can be used - just take the battery out and use it like you would a rock, headphone wire can be used to strangle, you could stab someone with your car keys! I mean c'mon! Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Mon Oct 16 12:35:15 2006 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Mon Oct 16 12:35:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005501c6f15a$352a67c0$6501a8c0@okapi> Naw... He's just telling it like it is. With my REAL job I work with a certain federal agency down at their training center in Oklahoma City. Last week I was meeting with a certain police force at their training centre in London. The consensus is that the security regulations are a sop that give the appearance of doing something without really doing much of anything at all. This has NOTHING to do with war. It has everything to do with sensible regulations. The only sensible way to actually prevent hijackings would be to make everyone fly totally naked after first passing through a full-body, cavity penetrating, x-ray machine. Of course, NO carry on luggage at all. And you are locked into your seat for the duration. By the way... You can carry a big, long knitting needle...so long as you are knitting. Watch out for the guys that are knitting, eh? GcB (PS... I've taken mineral specimens in carry-on for ages and have NEVER had a problem.) > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Al Balmer > Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 1:48 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 16:07:34 +0000, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > >Hi List, > > > >I wanted to share this story about the perils of trying to > carry rock specimens on to planes these days! > > A professor of geology with little common sense, seizing an > opportunity to complain about the government and showcase his > anti-war sentiments. > > Apparently on the return trip, someone told him about checked luggage. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Mon Oct 16 12:36:42 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Oct 16 12:36:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii earthquake (was) Digest, Vol 29, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <000601c6f14a$bc156330$0200a8c0@kadok> References: <296963E4-B02C-4E38-AF94-F959108A1ACF@cox.net> <000601c6f14a$bc156330$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061016080621.03d5c518@mail.hawaiiantel.net> First an Admin note: Terrie & Margaret, please change the Subject line when you're on the Digest system. Yes, we had two large aftershocks yesterday, and experts say we will probably have more this week. I found it interesting that those two aftershocks were in different places, so when you look at the map of the epicenters, there are three distinctly different---but nearby---locations. As for not worrying about rocks getting broken, we DID worry, and with good reason. Those List members who have been to our home (and there are several) will attest that we keep most of our collection in glass display cabinets---we're up to six cabinets now---and we have many specimens that are delicate. Fortunately all the cabinets survived intact, but several rocks fell off the top of the cabinets onto the floor, and there was damage---some to the rocks and some to the hardwood floor! We were extremely lucky that most of the very delicate pieces survived, including an aragonite that looks like a dragon with a spear. All cabinet shelves are a jumble of tipped-over specimens, and I have yet to begin putting them back in order...we've been busy cleaning up the rest of the house. A bottle of beer and a jar of salad dressing broke in the pantry under a load of fallen canned goods, so there was an interesting smell there as well as an icky mess to clean off the floor and the cans. We spent most of yesterday afternoon picking stuff up off the floor of every room in the house, especially about 1000 books in the study. A huge chunk of pali (cliff) fell into the ocean at Kealakekua Bay (where Captain Cook arrived in the late 1700's), and there are boulders the size of cars on roads all over the Big Island. Some bridges are damaged and roads are closed, some with giant cracks in the pavement. Most schools on the Big Island are closed today, with teachers attending to clean up. Power is still out in places on Oahu, but there have not been any deaths. Lots of building damage, especially to classic structures over 100 years old. I think the most serious personal injury was a broken arm, here on the Big Island. In Honolulu the problem was (and partially still is) the lack of power. Imagine being a tourist in a hotel in Waikiki last night with no lights, no air-conditioning, no elevators, and no food. We consider ourselves very lucky. Aloha, Kitty At 07:44 AM 10/16/2006, you wrote: >Yes, Kitty, I'm glad to know your are OK, and am sorry to hear of all your >damage. >I think you'll be getting aftershocks for some time. >I still remember the Northridge quake, from when I lived in SoCal.; we were >having them for a long time afterwards. > >And now I live right on the Hurricane Fault.(Said to be second only to the >San Andreas in damage potential!) > >There's one thing to be said for collecting rocks -- you don't have to worry >much about them getting broken! <;--}} > >I have a friend in Honolulu that I'm wondering about. She lives in a condo >apartment on a hillside --. Did you hear anything about damage there (other >than power outage?) Being over 100 miles from the epicenter, I'm hopeful >that everything's OK there. > >Margaret From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Mon Oct 16 13:11:27 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (MICHAEL SCHMIDT) Date: Mon Oct 16 13:12:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: <7aac8040610161219w58b6ec1bg297e588258f47cb1@mail.gmail.com> References: <101620061607.23803.4533AE460006883700005CFB215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <7aac8040610161219w58b6ec1bg297e588258f47cb1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: unfortunately, airport security/lack of security seldom ever has anything to do with logic or common sense, but is simply a kneejerk reaction to what our governments "perceive" as threats...causing everyone to exist in a constant state of fear. and yes...you can COMPLETELY blame certain politicians for this (and we all know who they are) Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Drew Date: Monday, October 16, 2006 1:19 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes > A curmudgeon with too much pride, seizing an opportunity to > complain about > anything and showcase his nationalism. > > Robert Thorson said that he was at fault, but I hardly agree, > because it > says nothing on the TSA site about rock or mineral specimens being > prohibited, here is the site, > http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted- > prohibited-items.shtm. > No mention of dual use on that entire page, just a definition on a > differentpage (which also mentions a list of dual-use items, but I > cannot find that > list), > http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Aviation_and_Transportation_Security_Act_ATSA_Public_Law_107_1771.pdf > > Personally, I found the post to be helpful, because I had never > thoughtabout rock/mineral specimens being "dual-use" items. I > mean if you really > want to get down and dirty, then you better check everything, because > anything can be used to kill someone. A pen/pencil (as mentioned) > can be > used, a CD can be broken and used to cut/stab, a laptop can be > used - just > take the battery out and use it like you would a rock, headphone > wire can be > used to strangle, you could stab someone with your car keys! I > mean c'mon! > > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Oct 16 14:08:59 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Oct 16 14:09:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: References: <101620061607.23803.4533AE460006883700005CFB215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: On 10/16/06, MICHAEL SCHMIDT wrote: > ever wonder why they don't ban pens or pencils on planes? think about it? How lethal a weapon is a pen or a pencil? You could kill someone in a second with one, yet they are not prohibited because EVERYONE has one. > > Which in itself only goes to show what a complete crock of sh** security regualtions for airports are... I've actually heard of a ball point pen being modified to hold a .22 caliber bullet. It could be lethal at close range. Grant From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Mon Oct 16 14:18:47 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Oct 16 14:18:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADMIN warning re rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: References: <101620061607.23803.4533AE460006883700005CFB215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <7aac8040610161219w58b6ec1bg297e588258f47cb1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061016111710.03d710b0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> This topic is beginning to lean towards politics. Please let's keep to rocks. Aloha, Kitty (Admin Team) From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Oct 16 14:21:32 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Oct 16 14:21:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: <101620061601.17612.4533ACD8000B7ADB000044CC215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <101620061601.17612.4533ACD8000B7ADB000044CC215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: I heard the Hawaii quake was not on a tectonic plate and not side to side movement. Apparently it was up and down movement caused by the weight of volcanoes. http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1546628,00.html Grant Johnston, Chico, CA On 10/16/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > Now, I'm sure that Andrew Alden certainly does not mean any disrespect to any of those people in Hawaii or other thousands worldwide, whose lifes are disrupted or tragically destroyed by earthquakes. > > But he's really right in "the big picture". If Earth were a tectonically "dead" planet like Mars or the Moon, without any forces of uplift, erosion could conceivably just wear down the surface to the point where we might have a uniform layer of sediment, all covered by a few kilometers of salt water, with no dry land in sight, and I suppose we'd all be aquatic creatures From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 16 15:07:28 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 16 15:02:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii quake revised to 6.7 References: <000601c6f14a$bc156330$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <45340143.4928@Tomaszewski.net> ***This event has been revised. Region: ISLAND OF HAWAII, HAWAII Geographic coordinates: 19.878N, 155.935W Magnitude: 6.7 Mw Depth: 38 km Universal Time (UTC): 15 Oct 2006 17:07:49 Time near the Epicenter: 15 Oct 2006 07:07:49 Local time in your area: 15 Oct 2006 17:07:49 Location with respect to nearby cities: 10 km (6 miles) SW (231 degrees) of Puako, HI 16 km (10 miles) WSW (245 degrees) of Waikoloa Village, HI 19 km (12 miles) NNE (23 degrees) of Kalaoa, HI 91 km (56 miles) WNW (282 degrees) of Hilo, HI 253 km (157 miles) SE (129 degrees) of Honolulu, HI Margaret Malm wrote: > > Yes, Kitty, I'm glad to know your are OK, and am sorry to hear of all your > damage. > I think you'll be getting aftershocks for some time. > I still remember the Northridge quake, from when I lived in SoCal.; we were > having them for a long time afterwards. > > And now I live right on the Hurricane Fault.(Said to be second only to the > San Andreas in damage potential!) > > There's one thing to be said for collecting rocks -- you don't have to worry > much about them getting broken! <;--}} > > I have a friend in Honolulu that I'm wondering about. She lives in a condo > apartment on a hillside --. Did you hear anything about damage there (other > than power outage?) Being over 100 miles from the epicenter, I'm hopeful > that everything's OK there. > > Margaret From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Oct 16 15:02:28 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Oct 16 15:02:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaii earthquake (was) Digest, Vol 29, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20061016080621.03d5c518@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: Hi Kitty & Bill Glad to hear you're OK and that most of your stuff and house is too. The use of putty to glue specimens to a shelf suddenly makes sense ;-))) I heard they do that in California? Any damage to the telescopes, Bill? I hope those aftershocks don't cause more damage. Take care Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Kitty & Bill Heacox > Verzonden: maandag 16 oktober 2006 20:37 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Hawaii earthquake (was) Digest, Vol 29, > Issue 16 > > > First an Admin note: Terrie & Margaret, please change the Subject line > when you're on the Digest system. > > Yes, we had two large aftershocks yesterday, and experts say we will > probably have more this week. I found it interesting that those two > aftershocks were in different places, so when you look at the map of the > epicenters, there are three distinctly different---but nearby---locations. > > As for not worrying about rocks getting broken, we DID worry, and > with good > reason. Those List members who have been to our home (and there are > several) will attest that we keep most of our collection in glass display > cabinets---we're up to six cabinets now---and we have many specimens that > are delicate. Fortunately all the cabinets survived intact, but several > rocks fell off the top of the cabinets onto the floor, and there was > damage---some to the rocks and some to the hardwood floor! We were > extremely lucky that most of the very delicate pieces survived, including > an aragonite that looks like a dragon with a spear. All cabinet shelves > are a jumble of tipped-over specimens, and I have yet to begin > putting them > back in order...we've been busy cleaning up the rest of the house. > > A bottle of beer and a jar of salad dressing broke in the pantry under a > load of fallen canned goods, so there was an interesting smell there as > well as an icky mess to clean off the floor and the cans. We > spent most of > yesterday afternoon picking stuff up off the floor of every room in the > house, especially about 1000 books in the study. > > A huge chunk of pali (cliff) fell into the ocean at Kealakekua Bay (where > Captain Cook arrived in the late 1700's), and there are boulders the size > of cars on roads all over the Big Island. Some bridges are damaged and > roads are closed, some with giant cracks in the pavement. Most > schools on > the Big Island are closed today, with teachers attending to clean up. > > Power is still out in places on Oahu, but there have not been any > deaths. Lots of building damage, especially to classic > structures over 100 > years old. I think the most serious personal injury was a broken > arm, here > on the Big Island. In Honolulu the problem was (and partially still is) > the lack of power. Imagine being a tourist in a hotel in Waikiki last > night with no lights, no air-conditioning, no elevators, and no food. We > consider ourselves very lucky. > > Aloha, Kitty > From mrmanon at umich.edu Mon Oct 16 14:52:30 2006 From: mrmanon at umich.edu (Matthew Manon) Date: Mon Oct 16 15:02:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: References: <101620061601.17612.4533ACD8000B7ADB000044CC215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: The moment tensor solution is fairly different between NEIC and the Harvard. The Harvard solution looks less like a strike-slip earthquake, however, both have a white field at the center of the beach-ball indicating "extension". It is the depth of the earthquake, which is kind of suprising. It is 39 km, which should put it in the mantle. But that may be revised upwards. http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eq_depot/2006/eq_061015_twbh/neic_twbh_q.html http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eq_depot/2006/eq_061015_twbh/ neic_twbh_hrv.html On Oct 16, 2006, at 5:21 PM, Grant Johnston wrote: > I heard the Hawaii quake was not on a tectonic plate and not side to > side movement. Apparently it was up and down movement caused by the > weight of volcanoes. > > http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1546628,00.html > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > > On 10/16/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >> Now, I'm sure that Andrew Alden certainly does not mean any >> disrespect to any of those people in Hawaii or other thousands >> worldwide, whose lifes are disrupted or tragically destroyed by >> earthquakes. >> >> But he's really right in "the big picture". If Earth were a >> tectonically "dead" planet like Mars or the Moon, without any >> forces of uplift, erosion could conceivably just wear down the >> surface to the point where we might have a uniform layer of >> sediment, all covered by a few kilometers of salt water, with no >> dry land in sight, and I suppose we'd all be aquatic creatures > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Oct 16 15:10:10 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Oct 16 15:10:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would doubt that, Grant. Any vertical movement of an Island would result in a tsunami, unless the movement was confined to a small section of that island that has no coastline. Then again, that would be more of a cave-in than a real earthquake... at least I think it would be. Also: a cave-in that goes 35 Km or more deep would not be confined to the island imho. I'm not a geologist so the above is to be interpreted as an educated guess, noting more. ;-))) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Grant Johnston > Verzonden: maandag 16 oktober 2006 22:22 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes > > > I heard the Hawaii quake was not on a tectonic plate and not side to > side movement. Apparently it was up and down movement caused by the > weight of volcanoes. > > http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1546628,00.html > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > > On 10/16/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Now, I'm sure that Andrew Alden certainly does not mean any > disrespect to any of those people in Hawaii or other thousands > worldwide, whose lifes are disrupted or tragically destroyed by > earthquakes. > > > > But he's really right in "the big picture". If Earth were a > tectonically "dead" planet like Mars or the Moon, without any > forces of uplift, erosion could conceivably just wear down the > surface to the point where we might have a uniform layer of > sediment, all covered by a few kilometers of salt water, with no > dry land in sight, and I suppose we'd all be aquatic creatures > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Oct 16 16:36:26 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Oct 16 16:36:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 10/16/06, Axel Emmermann wrote: > I would doubt that, Grant. > Any vertical movement of an Island would result in a tsunami, unless the > movement was confined to a small section of that island that has no > coastline. Then again, that would be more of a cave-in than a real > earthquake... at least I think it would be. Also: a cave-in that goes 35 Km > or more deep would not be confined to the island imho. > I'm not a geologist so the above is to be interpreted as an educated guess, > noting more. ;-))) > Axel Here is what the new said. "In some other parts of the world, such as Southern California, volcanoes play little or no role in earthquakes. These quakes are caused instead when the plates that make up the Earth's crust grind against each other and break or slip. Scientists said a possible explanation for Sunday's quake is that, as volcanoes grow over time, their weight presses down on the crust, which can then give way. "It's like someone sitting on mattress," said Jim Kauahikaua, scientist in charge of the USGS Hawaiian Volcano Observatory. "The crust is flexed by the weight of the island." end of quote I'm not a geologist either but I'm a news junkie. So far plate tectonics doesn't explain why the after shocks are many miles apart. Maybe Occum's razor needs sharpening? Grant Johnston, Chico, CA From geenet2 at mchsi.com Mon Oct 16 16:54:19 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Mon Oct 16 16:54:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes References: Message-ID: <004b01c6f17e$65c6d2a0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Give way to where? When a mattress gives way it falls to the floor. Even the plywood explanation doesn't make a lot of sense to me..... I'd like to see a real explanation of what moved where. And if the crust "gave way" has the island dropped into the ocean any measureable amount. That should show up on the many GPS recorders around Kilauea shouldn't it? Jeanette > Scientists said a possible explanation for Sunday's quake is that, as > volcanoes grow over time, > their weight presses down on the crust, which can then give way. "It's > like someone sitting on mattress," said Jim Kauahikaua, scientist in > charge of the USGS Hawaiian Volcano Observatory. "The crust is flexed > by the weight of the island." end of quote > From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Oct 16 17:08:44 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Oct 16 17:08:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: <004b01c6f17e$65c6d2a0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <004b01c6f17e$65c6d2a0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: On 10/16/06, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Give way to where? When a mattress gives way it falls to the floor. Even > the plywood explanation doesn't make a lot of sense to me..... I'd like to > see a real explanation of what moved where. And if the crust "gave way" has > the island dropped into the ocean any measureable amount. That should show > up on the many GPS recorders around Kilauea shouldn't it? > Jeanette If you are really interested, try google news. I'm not making this up. Anybody that post anything on this list now is subject to attack. What an unfriendly bunch you are. If you are looking for a fight, lets go back to politics because I've got strong opinions about that. If you want to learn about the earthquake do what scientist and news junkies do -- research. I think it's time to do what a lot of others have done and unsubscribe. Grant From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Oct 16 17:16:50 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Oct 16 17:16:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: <004b01c6f17e$65c6d2a0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <004b01c6f17e$65c6d2a0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: Read this and figure it out for yourself -- if you are capable. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/10/061016-earthquake.html Grant On 10/16/06, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > Give way to where? When a mattress gives way it falls to the floor. Even > the plywood explanation doesn't make a lot of sense to me..... I'd like to > see a real explanation of what moved where. And if the crust "gave way" has > the island dropped into the ocean any measureable amount. That should show > up on the many GPS recorders around Kilauea shouldn't it? > Jeanette > > > Scientists said a possible explanation for Sunday's quake is that, as > > volcanoes grow over time, > > their weight presses down on the crust, which can then give way. "It's > > like someone sitting on mattress," said Jim Kauahikaua, scientist in > > charge of the USGS Hawaiian Volcano Observatory. "The crust is flexed > > by the weight of the island." end of quote > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Mon Oct 16 17:22:58 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Mon Oct 16 17:23:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes References: <004b01c6f17e$65c6d2a0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <008d01c6f182$6657cb30$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> What brought this on? Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes > On 10/16/06, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: >> Give way to where? When a mattress gives way it falls to the floor. >> Even >> the plywood explanation doesn't make a lot of sense to me..... I'd like >> to >> see a real explanation of what moved where. And if the crust "gave way" >> has >> the island dropped into the ocean any measureable amount. That should >> show >> up on the many GPS recorders around Kilauea shouldn't it? >> Jeanette > > If you are really interested, try google news. I'm not making this up. > > Anybody that post anything on this list now is subject to attack. What > an unfriendly bunch you are. > > If you are looking for a fight, lets go back to politics because I've > got strong opinions about that. If you want to learn about the > earthquake do what scientist and news junkies do -- research. > > I think it's time to do what a lot of others have done and unsubscribe. > > Grant > -- > From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Oct 16 18:05:20 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Oct 16 18:05:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: <008d01c6f182$6657cb30$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <004b01c6f17e$65c6d2a0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <008d01c6f182$6657cb30$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: On 10/16/06, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > What brought this on? > Jeanette > I posted a link to a published article and you and Axel expect me to explain it and defend it --- as if it were a dissertation I wrote. I just posted the link, I didn't write the dam article and I don't feel any need to explain what's in it. If you have questions about something, question the reporeter or the people he interviewed. Better yet, check it out and see if that's what the experts are saying. Grant From teyancey at mail.tca.net Mon Oct 16 18:36:08 2006 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Mon Oct 16 18:38:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: References: <004b01c6f17e$65c6d2a0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: OK, Enough. Take a deep breath and think this through. The comparisons are being made to help folks visualize the way Earth surface rocks behave, but the comparisons do not go far enough. The surface of the Earth is composed of layers thicker than plywood or a mattress. This is part of plate tectonics. The surface layer of the Earth capable of producing earthquakes is the lithosphere, a zone about 200 km thick, that overlies a relatively soft layer. The lithosphere can and does flex when a load is placed on top of it. This is well documented in northern areas that were once covered with a couple kilometres of continental ice sheet that depressed the land surface by the weight of ice. The ice disappeared quickly, but the lithosphere takes longer to adjust so the the land is still rising today as it continues to come to balance. The islands of Hawaii are huge masses of volcanic rock that have been placed on top of the ocean floor (the main island of Hawaii is the largest volcano complex on Earth, since it extends an additional 5 km down to the floor of the ocean) and this mass causes the lithosphere to bend under the weight. It is inevitable that the lithosphere will flex as the volcanic complex keeps pressing down. The lithosphere acts as a semi-rigid layer that acts like a unit as it moves across the surface of the Earth and down subduction zones. The comparison to a mattress is not too far off, actually, if you can visualize a gigantic mattress slowly moving over the surface of the Earth. A more complete picture of the area would show that the crust at Hawaii is oceanic crust of about 10 km thickness that overlies uppermost mantle rock (the remaining 190 km), both of which are part of the lithosphere. In addition, the Hawaiian volcanoes are fed by magma coming from a mantle plume hot spot that originates very deep within the Earth. Nothing in nature is simple and there is another big factor to consider when discussing the Hawaiian Islands. They are formed of huge steep-sided volcanoes and the sides of these volcanic complexes can fail and slide into deep waters of the ocean. Many prehistoric huge slides of this type have been documented in the area. Any mention of slides in these reports is an attempt to distinguish between earthquake shaking and submarine sliding that could generate huge tsunami waves. Tom Yancey >Read this and figure it out for yourself -- if you are capable. > >http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/10/061016-earthquake.html > >Grant > >On 10/16/06, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: >>Give way to where? When a mattress gives way it falls to the floor. Even >>the plywood explanation doesn't make a lot of sense to me..... I'd like to >>see a real explanation of what moved where. And if the crust "gave way" has >>the island dropped into the ocean any measureable amount. That should show >>up on the many GPS recorders around Kilauea shouldn't it? >>Jeanette >> >>> Scientists said a possible explanation for Sunday's quake is that, as >>> volcanoes grow over time, >>> their weight presses down on the crust, which can then give way. "It's >>> like someone sitting on mattress," said Jim Kauahikaua, scientist in >>> charge of the USGS Hawaiian Volcano Observatory. "The crust is flexed >> > by the weight of the island." end of quote -- Thomas Yancey From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 16 19:14:09 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 16 19:07:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes References: <101620061601.17612.4533ACD8000B7ADB000044CC215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <45343AF0.296D@Tomaszewski.net> Grant, Have you read what the Hawaiian Volcano Observatory says about their earthquakes? http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/earthquakes They also have a form for reporting felt earthquakes on the islands to help with their research. Something obviously gave way and moved, transferring some of the stress elsewhere to make aftershocks. A downward motion is most likely if it was caused by the increasing weight of the volcano, with possibly an upward motion outside the fault (from the volcano's perspective) due to rebound as the stress was taken off. Kreigh Grant Johnston wrote: > > I heard the Hawaii quake was not on a tectonic plate and not side to > side movement. Apparently it was up and down movement caused by the > weight of volcanoes. > > http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1546628,00.html > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > > On 10/16/06, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > > Now, I'm sure that Andrew Alden certainly does not mean any disrespect to any of those people in Hawaii or other thousands worldwide, whose lifes are disrupted or tragically destroyed by earthquakes. > > > > But he's really right in "the big picture". If Earth were a tectonically "dead" planet like Mars or the Moon, without any forces of uplift, erosion could conceivably just wear down the surface to the point where we might have a uniform layer of sediment, all covered by a few kilometers of salt water, with no dry land in sight, and I suppose we'd all be aquatic creatures From agate at cox.net Mon Oct 16 19:30:25 2006 From: agate at cox.net (Hugh Hammerslag) Date: Mon Oct 16 19:30:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes Message-ID: <31792557.1161052225413.JavaMail.root@fed1wml12.mgt.cox.net> ---- Grant Johnston wrote: ============= On 10/16/06, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > What brought this on? > Jeanette > I posted a link to a published article and you and Axel expect me to explain it and defend it --- as if it were a dissertation I wrote. I just posted the link, I didn't write the dam article and I don't feel any need to explain what's in it. If you have questions about something, question the reporeter or the people he interviewed. Better yet, check it out and see if that's what the experts are saying. Grant -- _______________________________________________ Much neede reaction Grant. -- Hugh Hammerslag From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Oct 16 19:48:54 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Oct 16 19:48:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: <31792557.1161052225413.JavaMail.root@fed1wml12.mgt.cox.net> References: <31792557.1161052225413.JavaMail.root@fed1wml12.mgt.cox.net> Message-ID: <45344496.8000506@verizon.net> >>What brought this on? >>Jeanette I usually try not to add to the noise of these spats, but, come on guys, this seems to me like a rigorous debate and not any personal attack. Grant, I have known the Wimpees to be good and rational list members and I don't think Jeanette's comment was intended as an insult, but rather as a question. In fact it seems like everyone in this discussion have always been kind and useful contributors and there is no reason for any of you to be grating on each other. Shake hands and move on? We should all remember that e-mail is two-dimensional and often easily misinterpreted. Sometimes, people send intentional flames, which is another matter, but in this case, I think it is an honest quest for knowledge. As I've commented often, where I live, the only broadcast media I can receive consistently are BBC and NPR over the Internet. When you hear all the troubles in the world, what goes on within the mailing list is very trivial stuff... Thanks, Don From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Oct 16 20:59:21 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Oct 16 20:59:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes Message-ID: <101720060359.28517.45345518000C1EFE00006F65216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Now putting aside the taking things personally stuff about this on the list (yeah, like Don says, ease up folks), as I had just written tongue-in-cheek to a friend, commenting on the newspaper articles, my own model, the stack of crackers anaology to the Earth's crust, "If you sit on a mattress it's gonna flex, but if you sit on a pile of crackers, they will crack." (And in reality, the Earth's crust is partly like a mattress and partly like crackers.) And Jeanette, you're right, accurate GPS measurements should show the actual amount of downdrop of the island due to to the quake, and as the news stories have pointed out, probably an accompanying uplift of the adjoining sea floor as the stress was relieved--see, Vertical pressure on the ocean floor is likely, but finding answers will take time http://starbulletin.com/2006/10/16/news/story05.html Similar data were obtained after the Sumatra tsunami-causing quake, but it will probably take a while to get those very precise measurements. Pete -------------- Original message from DonH : -------------- > > >>What brought this on? > >>Jeanette > > > I usually try not to add to the noise of these spats, but, come on guys, > this seems to me like a rigorous debate and not any personal attack. > Grant, I have known the Wimpees to be good and rational list members and > I don't think Jeanette's comment was intended as an insult, but rather > as a question. In fact it seems like everyone in this discussion have > always been kind and useful contributors and there is no reason for any > of you to be grating on each other. Shake hands and move on? > > We should all remember that e-mail is two-dimensional and often easily > misinterpreted. Sometimes, people send intentional flames, which is > another matter, but in this case, I think it is an honest quest for > knowledge. > > As I've commented often, where I live, the only broadcast media I can > receive consistently are BBC and NPR over the Internet. When you hear > all the troubles in the world, what goes on within the mailing list is > very trivial stuff... > > > Thanks, > Don > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 22:40:26 2006 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon Oct 16 22:40:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes--Hawaii In-Reply-To: <004b01c6f17e$65c6d2a0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <20061017054026.96110.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Listoids, -- Jeanette Wimpee wrote: "Give way to where? ... I'd like to see a real explanation of what moved where. And if the crust "gave way" has the island dropped into the ocean any measurable amount. That should show up on the many GPS recorders around Kilauea shouldn't it? Jeanette" Who knows yet what happened with certainty what transpired, but here are some possibilities. The net sinking movement is most likely far too small for a GPS reciever to register and may be beyond measurement at all. This quake was apparently 39km deep and over 50 miles from Kilauea. I am not sure that anyone has a good theory regarding mantle level quakes. However, here are somethings we know about the crust-mantle dynamics. There are several factors in earthquake causes in this setting. Think of the mantle as the mattress and Hawaii the pile of sand. Make a pile high enough and it presses down on the mattress causing a depression relative to mass. Now, slow the process way down to geological scale and speed. Land masses such as large islands and continents "float/raft" buoyantly atop the mantle. They rise and fall over the eons based upon their changing mass. In the northeast of North America, amongst other locations, the land is rising--rebounding from the most recent ice cap of 13,000 years ago which had ice over a mile thick for over a million years. For argument purposes, the crust is thicker over the continents on the order of 40-50(?) kilometers vs oceanic crust around 8-12 km(?) The point being is that "land masses" raft up over the mantle but also press down into the mantle. Hawaii has been nonstop for the past 2-3 decades adding mass to the top of the island in the form of magma from deep in the mantle. The raft is not only growing thicker from the top but causing the mantle to be depressed as well. Another factor in volcanics, exemplified by caldera formation is the depletion of the magma chamber. The chamber is pressurized by gases which drive magma movement. As the magma moves towards the surface the gas dynamo is depleted unless replenished from below. As the pressures within the feeding chambers diminish the added mass from above also acts to drive down on the chamber necessitating an adjustment to maintain the equilibrium. In spite of the hype this was a routine adjustment of the two forces. The news kept trying to compare this to plate slippage and the recent tsunami. Fox/CNN had a marine oceanographer as their "quake" expert that kept telling the newscasters this was not a plate boundary aka California type quake but she never explained the difference. As to Grant's comments, be it remembered that the Pacific plate is moving and while this is not a normal plate slippage (e.g California) the Pac Plate is moving over this location. How the Hawaiian chain acts as an obstruction to that movement , I am not current but I know that there is an impediment owing to the size and depth of the chain. It is classic that earthquakes precipitate other earthquakes in the vicinity. While there is no way for us to determine stresses at the depths involved, a jostle in one place causes pregnant zones to shift. sometimes the pregnant zone is the larger shift --sometimes it is the smaller ones--no way to tell till after the quakes have happened. With the myriad of magma channels and chambers within a mountain of that size aftershocks are no surprise. Elton From luka2 at telkomsa.net Mon Oct 16 23:36:12 2006 From: luka2 at telkomsa.net (Luka Berkovic) Date: Mon Oct 16 23:38:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] African Minreals Message-ID: <000001c6f1b6$8ab83df0$8347ef9b@luka> Hi there Would anyone be interested in purchasing these minerals from me I am urgently trying to sell them, as I am in desperate need of cash right know, they are all top class specimens, and as you all now aquamarines are very difficult to come by and me being in South Africa I know very well that it is very hard to get them. So if anyone is interested please I would appreciate it if you get back to me ASAP. I am looking to sell the collection as a whole as apposed to individual pieces the total adds up to $4215 that would include postage and packaging as well as all the necessary bank charges. If that is to high for you we could negotiate a better price, or other wise you could suggest to me what you would pay and I could perhaps take it into consideration. Yours truly, Luka Berkovic brandberg amethyst quartz from the brandberg mountains in Namibia. 4.5cm x 1.8cmx 1.8cm. $50 aegerine from zomba Malawi. This specimen is very large for species. 9.9cm x 3cmx 3.2cm $90 vanadinite from, this was really hard to take a photo of it is really beautiful. 5.1cm x 4.5cm x 2.6cm $130 topaz from erongo 4.5cm x 2.5cm x 2cm $150 Amethyst - Brandberg, Namibia Fine double crystal, water bubbles 2x1.5x1" $30 Aquamarine - Erongo, Namibia Beautiful blue prism on matrix. Excellent miniature. 1 3/8 X 1 X .75" $50 vesuvianite from otjihorong Namibia. A collectable piece 10.5cm x 8.8cm x 6.1cm $130 dioptase, drc/Namibia. 5.5cm x 4.2cm x 1.9cm $200 native copper Namibia 5.2cm x 4.2cm $80 brandberg quartz ob black tourmaline. 5.1cm x 4.2cm x 4.6cm $50 chalcopyrite from the drc 3.8cm x 3.5cm x 2.9cm $85 vanadanite. 7.1cm x 5.3cm x 3.5cm $180 alexandrite from Zimbabwe, this is the first time I have ever had a piece of this specimen it is very pricey, it has a dark green color to it. The size is 3.5cm x 3.2cm x 2.4cm and the price is $900 Barndberg quartz on prehnite from Namibia. 14.8cm x 7.8cm x 3.5cm. $ 130 topaz from erongo 3.8cm x 3.8cm x 3.5cm $180 prehnite from Namibia 14.1cm x 8.2cm x 5.5cm $120 Aquamarine - Erongo, Namibia Very nice large thumbnail (over one inch) with great color on matrix of feldspar. Smaller crystals at base of large xl. $40 Aquamarine - Erongo, Namibia Fine matrix with over 15 aquas, excellent specimen with several display views. 5x3x3" $650 Aquamarine - Erongo, Namibia Nice sharp aquamarine, with small fluorite and a schorl across one side. 1.5x1.5x1" $100 Beryl, var. Aquamarine - Very nice single with some feldspar attached at bottom, very sharp form, good color. 1.75x.6x.5" $120 2783 Beryl, var. Aquamarine namib Beryl, var. Aquamarine - Erongo, Namibia Another sharp single crystal, this one with a small terminated schorl and feldspar, and tiny aquas at base 1.75x.6x.6" ` $100 2789 Beryl, var. Aquamarine namib Beryl, var. Aquamarine - Erongo, Namibia Very fine small matrix with several schorls and excellent parallel groups of aquamarines on a feldspar crystal cast. 2.5x2x1.15" $250 2729 Ettringite namib Ettringite - Kuruman, South Africa pale yellow prisms on matrix 2.5x1.5x1" $20 2780 Fluorite namib Fluorite - Erongo, Namibia Fine group of gemmy grass green fluorite cubes on feldspar crystal. 3x2.5x2" $100 2786 Fluorite namib Fluorite - Erongo, Namibia Fine group of gemmy grass green fluorite cubes on feldspar crystal. 3x2.5x2" $110 2785 Fluorite, Tourmaline, Quartz, and feldspar namib Fluorite, Tourmaline, Quartz, and feldspar - Erongo, Namibia Nice miniature with pale green fluorites 2.5x2x2" $25 2520 Quartz, var. Amethyst namib Quartz, var. Amethyst - Brandberg, Namibia Sharp single crystal with beautiful fluid inclusions and negative crystals. Attached to small piece of matrix, doubly terminated. $25 please keep in mind that Aquamarine specimens are very hard to come by. The total add up to $4215 including p&p, but we can always negotiate a better price for you. Yours truly, Luka Berkovic --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Oct 17 00:17:37 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Oct 17 00:17:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes--Hawaii In-Reply-To: <20061017054026.96110.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> References: <004b01c6f17e$65c6d2a0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <20061017054026.96110.qmail@web51007.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061016204148.03db5a60@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Elton, thank you very much for such a long and well-thought-out response. All I can add is that at our house the movement seemed to be side-to-side rather than up-and-down, whatever that is worth. And right now, as if to add insult to injury, we are having thunder and lighting, probably a precursor to the flash flood warnings the National Weather Service has issued for the Big Island and Maui. Lots of rain on top of the earthquake damage may bring more landslides. Finally, and some may discount this as nonsense, but two of our local TV news stations reported that there were numerous accounts of dogs howling and farm animals being agitated about 5 minutes before the earthquake. The news people said this was extremely unusual for our average and frequent Hawaii earthquakes, which are caused by volcanic activity. But animal agitation is regularly reported in California (for example) where the earthquake activity is caused by plate tectonics. Not a very scientific observation, I admit, but interesting. Aloha, Kitty At 07:40 PM 10/16/2006, you wrote: >Hello Listoids, > >-- Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > >"Give way to where? ... I'd like to see a real >explanation of what moved where. And if the crust >"gave way" has the island dropped into the ocean any >measurable amount. That should show up on the many GPS >recorders around Kilauea shouldn't it? >Jeanette" > >Who knows yet what happened with certainty what >transpired, but here are some possibilities. > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Oct 17 06:04:56 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Oct 17 06:04:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite Message-ID: I'm surprised this isn't on the list before now: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15294523/ Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Try the new Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Tue Oct 17 07:54:00 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Oct 17 07:54:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: References: <004b01c6f17e$65c6d2a0$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> <008d01c6f182$6657cb30$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <7gr9j252vit4mj2kci74mvivoovi4qq36b@4ax.com> On Mon, 16 Oct 2006 18:05:20 -0700, "Grant Johnston" wrote: >On 10/16/06, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: >> What brought this on? >> Jeanette >> > >I posted a link to a published article and you and Axel expect me to >explain it and defend it --- as if it were a dissertation I wrote. I >just posted the link, I didn't write the dam article and I don't feel >any need to explain what's in it. > >If you have questions about something, question the reporeter or the >people he interviewed. Better yet, check it out and see if that's what >the experts are saying. > I think you're forgetting that you aren't the only member of the group. As I read them, the questions were to the group, not to you personally, and were intended to elicit information and further discussion. That's what we're here for. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Oct 17 08:20:20 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Oct 17 08:20:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: <31792557.1161052225413.JavaMail.root@fed1wml12.mgt.cox.net> Message-ID: You're right Grant. You don't have to explain anything. My answer was to the community. I just put in your name to indicate that I responded to your message... a form of politeness. I always do that. I didn't necessary assume that you stood behind the article. No need to get exited... we're all friends ;-))) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Hugh Hammerslag > Verzonden: dinsdag 17 oktober 2006 3:30 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > CC: Grant Johnston > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes > > > > ---- Grant Johnston wrote: > > ============= > On 10/16/06, Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > > What brought this on? > > Jeanette > > > > I posted a link to a published article and you and Axel expect me to > explain it and defend it --- as if it were a dissertation I wrote. I > just posted the link, I didn't write the dam article and I don't feel > any need to explain what's in it. > > If you have questions about something, question the reporeter or the > people he interviewed. Better yet, check it out and see if that's what > the experts are saying. > > Grant > -- > _______________________________________________ > Much neede reaction Grant. > -- > Hugh Hammerslag > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From johnjold at comcast.net Tue Oct 17 09:13:30 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Tue Oct 17 09:13:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New dino age mammal from Alberta Message-ID: <8d702da4b921a059347061fced0a12c5@comcast.net> Mysterious teeth have been found in Alberta for 30 years. They have been identified. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061016.wxmammal17/ BNStory/Science/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp From kadok at infowest.com Tue Oct 17 09:38:22 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Oct 17 09:38:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: <7aac8040610161219w58b6ec1bg297e588258f47cb1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003401c6f20a$a9567c50$0200a8c0@kadok> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes A curmudgeon with too much pride, seizing an opportunity to complain about anything and showcase his nationalism. Yes, and we do have our share of power-hungry curmudgeons. But this is nothing new. I remember once, several years ago and before all this new stuff came up, when I was heading for Australia from LA, the person at Qantas (and I think she was an Aussie!) grabbed my backpack, which had my camera gear in it as well as my purse and several other things; weighed it (only time my backpack has ever been weighed - although it has been measured a time or two) said "too heavy, you'll have to check it!" I explained that it was delicate (and expensive) camera equipment that I didn't want smashed. And I pointed out that the size was well within the limits for carry-on. Despite that, [she did let me take my purse out (which probably brought it within the weight limits)], she tagged it, grumped, angrily, "I'll put a 'fragile' sticker on it". Which she did. And then picked it up and casually THREW it about 6-8 feet onto the conveyer belt, and smirked at me. (They broke one of my exposure meters.) Margaret >Robert Thorson said that he was at fault, but I hardly agree, because it >says nothing on the TSA site about rock or mineral specimens being >prohibited, here is the site, >http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited->ite ms.shtm. >No mention of dual use on that entire page, just a definition on a >different >page (which also mentions a list of dual-use items, but I cannot find that >list), >http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Aviation_and_Transportation_Security_Act_ATSA >_Public_Law_107_1771.pdf >Personally, I found the post to be helpful, because I had never thought >about rock/mineral specimens being "dual-use" items. I mean if you really >want to get down and dirty, then you better check everything, because >anything can be used to kill someone. A pen/pencil (as mentioned) can be >used, a CD can be broken and used to cut/stab, a laptop can be used - just >take the battery out and use it like you would a rock, headphone wire can >be >used to strangle, you could stab someone with your car keys! I mean c'mon! Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS ------------------------------------------------------ Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 19839079) is spam: Spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 Not spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 Forget vote: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 ------------------------------------------------------ END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 09:55:20 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Oct 17 09:55:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: <003401c6f20a$a9567c50$0200a8c0@kadok> References: <7aac8040610161219w58b6ec1bg297e588258f47cb1@mail.gmail.com> <003401c6f20a$a9567c50$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: Well there is a trick that Americans can use on domestic flights, photographers have been doing it. You can place a starter pistol in the bag (a pistol that only fires blanks). That is classified as a firearm under US regs and that bag is given special treatment, carried straight to the aircraft and NOT touched by baggage handlers. You just tell the check in clerk that there is a firearm in the bag, they will give you a card to take to the TSA desk with the bag, the TSA people examine the bag, right then in front of you, and they then use YOUR lock to lock the bag, and then it is carried straight to the plane. You can do it with multiple bags too. And the bag is hand carried off the plane to you as well. In most of the unfree world this doesn't work obviously. BK On 10/17/06, Margaret Malm wrote: > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes > > A curmudgeon with too much pride, seizing an opportunity to complain about > anything and showcase his nationalism. > > Yes, and we do have our share of power-hungry curmudgeons. But this is > nothing new. I remember once, several years ago and before all this new > stuff came up, when I was heading for Australia from LA, the person at > Qantas (and I think she was an Aussie!) grabbed my backpack, which had my > camera gear in it as well as my purse and several other things; weighed it > (only time my backpack has ever been weighed - although it has been > measured > a time or two) said "too heavy, you'll have to check it!" I explained that > it was delicate (and expensive) camera equipment that I didn't want > smashed. > And I pointed out that the size was well within the limits for carry-on. > Despite that, [she did let me take my purse out (which probably brought it > within the weight limits)], she tagged it, grumped, angrily, "I'll put a > 'fragile' sticker on it". Which she did. And then picked it up and > casually > THREW it about 6-8 feet onto the conveyer belt, and smirked at me. (They > broke one of my exposure meters.) > > Margaret > > > > >Robert Thorson said that he was at fault, but I hardly agree, because it > >says nothing on the TSA site about rock or mineral specimens being > >prohibited, here is the site, > >http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited- > >ite > ms.shtm. > >No mention of dual use on that entire page, just a definition on a > >different > >page (which also mentions a list of dual-use items, but I cannot find > that > >list), > > > http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Aviation_and_Transportation_Security_Act_ATSA > >_Public_Law_107_1771.pdf > > >Personally, I found the post to be helpful, because I had never thought > >about rock/mineral specimens being "dual-use" items. I mean if you > really > >want to get down and dirty, then you better check everything, because > >anything can be used to kill someone. A pen/pencil (as mentioned) can be > >used, a CD can be broken and used to cut/stab, a laptop can be used - > just > >take the battery out and use it like you would a rock, headphone wire can > >be > >used to strangle, you could stab someone with your car keys! I mean > c'mon! > > Drew > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 19839079) is spam: > Spam: > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > Not spam: > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > Forget vote: > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 10:03:03 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Oct 17 10:03:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: References: <7aac8040610161219w58b6ec1bg297e588258f47cb1@mail.gmail.com> <003401c6f20a$a9567c50$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <7aac8040610171003r678bf528p72b3df16712c5159@mail.gmail.com> Bryan, I see that you stated, "domestic", but I just wanted to add this, watch out for Air Canada, that extra care will cost you $50 one-way, http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=290a01ee-6f4b-4890-b21d-3f22c5ad5690&k=40857 Drew On 10/17/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Well there is a trick that Americans can use on domestic flights, > photographers have been doing it. You can place a starter pistol in the > bag > (a pistol that only fires blanks). That is classified as a firearm under > US > regs and that bag is given special treatment, carried straight to the > aircraft and NOT touched by baggage handlers. > > You just tell the check in clerk that there is a firearm in the bag, they > will give you a card to take to the TSA desk with the bag, the TSA people > examine the bag, right then in front of you, and they then use YOUR lock > to > lock the bag, and then it is carried straight to the plane. You can do it > with multiple bags too. And the bag is hand carried off the plane to you > as > well. > > In most of the unfree world this doesn't work obviously. > > BK > > > On 10/17/06, Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes > > > > A curmudgeon with too much pride, seizing an opportunity to complain > about > > anything and showcase his nationalism. > > > > Yes, and we do have our share of power-hungry curmudgeons. But this is > > nothing new. I remember once, several years ago and before all this new > > stuff came up, when I was heading for Australia from LA, the person at > > Qantas (and I think she was an Aussie!) grabbed my backpack, which had > my > > camera gear in it as well as my purse and several other things; weighed > it > > (only time my backpack has ever been weighed - although it has been > > measured > > a time or two) said "too heavy, you'll have to check it!" I explained > that > > it was delicate (and expensive) camera equipment that I didn't want > > smashed. > > And I pointed out that the size was well within the limits for carry-on. > > Despite that, [she did let me take my purse out (which probably brought > it > > within the weight limits)], she tagged it, grumped, angrily, "I'll put a > > 'fragile' sticker on it". Which she did. And then picked it up and > > casually > > THREW it about 6-8 feet onto the conveyer belt, and smirked at > me. (They > > broke one of my exposure meters.) > > > > Margaret > > > > > > > > >Robert Thorson said that he was at fault, but I hardly agree, because > it > > >says nothing on the TSA site about rock or mineral specimens being > > >prohibited, here is the site, > > >http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited- > > >ite > > ms.shtm. > > >No mention of dual use on that entire page, just a definition on a > > >different > > >page (which also mentions a list of dual-use items, but I cannot find > > that > > >list), > > > > > > http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Aviation_and_Transportation_Security_Act_ATSA > > >_Public_Law_107_1771.pdf > > > > >Personally, I found the post to be helpful, because I had never thought > > >about rock/mineral specimens being "dual-use" items. I mean if you > > really > > >want to get down and dirty, then you better check everything, because > > >anything can be used to kill someone. A pen/pencil (as mentioned) can > be > > >used, a CD can be broken and used to cut/stab, a laptop can be used - > > just > > >take the battery out and use it like you would a rock, headphone wire > can > > >be > > >used to strangle, you could stab someone with your car keys! I mean > > c'mon! > > > > Drew > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 19839079) is spam: > > Spam: > > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > > Not spam: > > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > > Forget vote: > > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 10:09:02 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Oct 17 10:09:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: <7aac8040610171003r678bf528p72b3df16712c5159@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040610161219w58b6ec1bg297e588258f47cb1@mail.gmail.com> <003401c6f20a$a9567c50$0200a8c0@kadok> <7aac8040610171003r678bf528p72b3df16712c5159@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeah, well Canada isn't domestic US and I doubt they have a second amendment either. BK On 10/17/06, Drew wrote: > > Bryan, > > I see that you stated, "domestic", but I just wanted to add this, watch > out > for Air Canada, that extra care will cost you $50 one-way, > > http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=290a01ee-6f4b-4890-b21d-3f22c5ad5690&k=40857 > > Drew > > > On 10/17/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > Well there is a trick that Americans can use on domestic flights, > > photographers have been doing it. You can place a starter pistol in the > > bag > > (a pistol that only fires blanks). That is classified as a firearm under > > US > > regs and that bag is given special treatment, carried straight to the > > aircraft and NOT touched by baggage handlers. > > > > You just tell the check in clerk that there is a firearm in the bag, > they > > will give you a card to take to the TSA desk with the bag, the TSA > people > > examine the bag, right then in front of you, and they then use YOUR lock > > to > > lock the bag, and then it is carried straight to the plane. You can do > it > > with multiple bags too. And the bag is hand carried off the plane to you > > as > > well. > > > > In most of the unfree world this doesn't work obviously. > > > > BK > > > > > > On 10/17/06, Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes > > > > > > A curmudgeon with too much pride, seizing an opportunity to complain > > about > > > anything and showcase his nationalism. > > > > > > Yes, and we do have our share of power-hungry curmudgeons. But this > is > > > nothing new. I remember once, several years ago and before all this > new > > > stuff came up, when I was heading for Australia from LA, the person at > > > Qantas (and I think she was an Aussie!) grabbed my backpack, which had > > my > > > camera gear in it as well as my purse and several other things; > weighed > > it > > > (only time my backpack has ever been weighed - although it has been > > > measured > > > a time or two) said "too heavy, you'll have to check it!" I explained > > that > > > it was delicate (and expensive) camera equipment that I didn't want > > > smashed. > > > And I pointed out that the size was well within the limits for > carry-on. > > > Despite that, [she did let me take my purse out (which probably > brought > > it > > > within the weight limits)], she tagged it, grumped, angrily, "I'll put > a > > > 'fragile' sticker on it". Which she did. And then picked it up and > > > casually > > > THREW it about 6-8 feet onto the conveyer belt, and smirked at > > me. (They > > > broke one of my exposure meters.) > > > > > > Margaret > > > > > > > > > > > > >Robert Thorson said that he was at fault, but I hardly agree, because > > it > > > >says nothing on the TSA site about rock or mineral specimens being > > > >prohibited, here is the site, > > > > > http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited- > > > >ite > > > ms.shtm. > > > >No mention of dual use on that entire page, just a definition on a > > > >different > > > >page (which also mentions a list of dual-use items, but I cannot find > > > that > > > >list), > > > > > > > > > > http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Aviation_and_Transportation_Security_Act_ATSA > > > >_Public_Law_107_1771.pdf > > > > > > >Personally, I found the post to be helpful, because I had never > thought > > > >about rock/mineral specimens being "dual-use" items. I mean if you > > > really > > > >want to get down and dirty, then you better check everything, because > > > >anything can be used to kill someone. A pen/pencil (as mentioned) > can > > be > > > >used, a CD can be broken and used to cut/stab, a laptop can be used - > > > just > > > >take the battery out and use it like you would a rock, headphone wire > > can > > > >be > > > >used to strangle, you could stab someone with your car keys! I mean > > > c'mon! > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > -- > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 19839079) is spam: > > > Spam: > > > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > > > Not spam: > > > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > > > Forget vote: > > > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > J Bryan Kramer > > photos at: > > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 10:23:47 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Oct 17 10:23:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: References: <7aac8040610161219w58b6ec1bg297e588258f47cb1@mail.gmail.com> <003401c6f20a$a9567c50$0200a8c0@kadok> <7aac8040610171003r678bf528p72b3df16712c5159@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040610171023k7d455478xbd3e269a0464ec64@mail.gmail.com> Maybe you should look, instead of assuming! It just takes a little effort! Canadian Bill of Rights, Part 1. Section 1. Paragraph (a) links... http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/canada/BillofRights.html, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_bear_arms#Canada Drew On 10/17/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Yeah, well Canada isn't domestic US and I doubt they have a second > amendment > either. > > BK > > > On 10/17/06, Drew wrote: > > > > Bryan, > > > > I see that you stated, "domestic", but I just wanted to add this, watch > > out > > for Air Canada, that extra care will cost you $50 one-way, > > > > > http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=290a01ee-6f4b-4890-b21d-3f22c5ad5690&k=40857 > > > > Drew > > > > > > On 10/17/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > > Well there is a trick that Americans can use on domestic flights, > > > photographers have been doing it. You can place a starter pistol in > the > > > bag > > > (a pistol that only fires blanks). That is classified as a firearm > under > > > US > > > regs and that bag is given special treatment, carried straight to the > > > aircraft and NOT touched by baggage handlers. > > > > > > You just tell the check in clerk that there is a firearm in the bag, > > they > > > will give you a card to take to the TSA desk with the bag, the TSA > > people > > > examine the bag, right then in front of you, and they then use YOUR > lock > > > to > > > lock the bag, and then it is carried straight to the plane. You can do > > it > > > with multiple bags too. And the bag is hand carried off the plane to > you > > > as > > > well. > > > > > > In most of the unfree world this doesn't work obviously. > > > > > > BK > > > > > > > > > On 10/17/06, Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes > > > > > > > > A curmudgeon with too much pride, seizing an opportunity to complain > > > about > > > > anything and showcase his nationalism. > > > > > > > > Yes, and we do have our share of power-hungry curmudgeons. But this > > is > > > > nothing new. I remember once, several years ago and before all this > > new > > > > stuff came up, when I was heading for Australia from LA, the person > at > > > > Qantas (and I think she was an Aussie!) grabbed my backpack, which > had > > > my > > > > camera gear in it as well as my purse and several other things; > > weighed > > > it > > > > (only time my backpack has ever been weighed - although it has been > > > > measured > > > > a time or two) said "too heavy, you'll have to check it!" I > explained > > > that > > > > it was delicate (and expensive) camera equipment that I didn't want > > > > smashed. > > > > And I pointed out that the size was well within the limits for > > carry-on. > > > > Despite that, [she did let me take my purse out (which probably > > brought > > > it > > > > within the weight limits)], she tagged it, grumped, angrily, "I'll > put > > a > > > > 'fragile' sticker on it". Which she did. And then picked it up and > > > > casually > > > > THREW it about 6-8 feet onto the conveyer belt, and smirked at > > > me. (They > > > > broke one of my exposure meters.) > > > > > > > > Margaret > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Robert Thorson said that he was at fault, but I hardly agree, > because > > > it > > > > >says nothing on the TSA site about rock or mineral specimens being > > > > >prohibited, here is the site, > > > > > > > http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited- > > > > >ite > > > > ms.shtm. > > > > >No mention of dual use on that entire page, just a definition on a > > > > >different > > > > >page (which also mentions a list of dual-use items, but I cannot > find > > > > that > > > > >list), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Aviation_and_Transportation_Security_Act_ATSA > > > > >_Public_Law_107_1771.pdf > > > > > > > > >Personally, I found the post to be helpful, because I had never > > thought > > > > >about rock/mineral specimens being "dual-use" items. I mean if you > > > > really > > > > >want to get down and dirty, then you better check everything, > because > > > > >anything can be used to kill someone. A pen/pencil (as mentioned) > > can > > > be > > > > >used, a CD can be broken and used to cut/stab, a laptop can be used > - > > > > just > > > > >take the battery out and use it like you would a rock, headphone > wire > > > can > > > > >be > > > > >used to strangle, you could stab someone with your car keys! I > mean > > > > c'mon! > > > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > > multipart/alternative > > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > > text/html > > > > --- > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 19839079) is spam: > > > > Spam: > > > > > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > > > > Not spam: > > > > > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > > > > Forget vote: > > > > > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > J Bryan Kramer > > > photos at: > > > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From SHMM at sussexonline.com Tue Oct 17 11:14:58 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Tue Oct 17 11:14:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: <003401c6f20a$a9567c50$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <000001c6f218$29cd38d0$2101a8c0@D3JM7W21> Rocks on airplanes: yes, it's been a problem with me too, and despite the luck some others have had, Lady Fortune doesn't always come to my aid. And I transport rocks a LOT, being a geologist fond of visiting new localities. The first adventure was during the Denver show, when I was responsible for putting in an exhibit case. This was during the first year of TSA. I elected to hand-carry the most expensive, irreplaceable specimens in my carry-on bag, and it was no problem going TO Denver. On the return trip, however, I was not allowed to carry those same specimens with me on the same airline carrier, despite mentioning that if it was OK one way, it should be OK the other, and despite the TSA fellow (who was quite nice, because I was too) consulting a supervisor for a firmer opinion. In the end I had to go to the airport post office, purchase a box and packing materials, and mail the specimens back. Expensive -- and I almost missed my flight. Second time was a return trip to Costa Rica, when I had delicate volcanic breccia specimens in my carry-on. They let me through, but of course they had to hand-inspect my bags after all those dark masses showed up on their X-ray scans. They wouldn't let me unwrap the specimens for them -- I wasn't allowed to touch my own bag or its contents at all, but had to stand two steps away and watch. And despite my pleas that the contents were fragile, the inspector broke two of the specimens through careless handling. The third time I had no problem with the carry-on at all until I got to the final leg of my trip, when I had to board a 10-seater puddle-jumper. No such thing as a carry-on on THAT flight -- every bag, no matter how small, had to be checked. So in it went, in the luggage bay, and of course the specimen I had been lovingly taking care of up to that point got broken. So here is one person's recommendation: Don't attempt to carry specimens in your carry-on bags at all, ever. You never know what you'll be in for, and you can consult all the regs you want, but they still won't cover your particular situation in explicit detail, so you'll end up arguing with the TSA rep and lose the battle anyway. Wrap delicate specimens in as many layers of clothing as you can and put them in the middle of your largest check-in piece of luggage, and hope they don't search that item. Or mail the specimens, which is the only way to ensure that no one will attempt to unpack them. In a broader context, the fewer carry-ons, the better. It shouldn't take 20 minutes to board a plane as dozens of people are wrestling with their big bags, trying to stuff them into overhead compartments that are already full with other people's big bags. Travel with a tiny bag only, walk to your seat, and SIT IN IT. (Sorry, personal pet peeve . . .) Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Oct 17 12:02:52 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Oct 17 12:03:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: <7aac8040610171023k7d455478xbd3e269a0464ec64@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200610171902.k9HJ2xnY014617@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Here we go again! ;-) Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Drew Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:24 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes Maybe you should look, instead of assuming! It just takes a little effort! Canadian Bill of Rights, Part 1. Section 1. Paragraph (a) links... http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/canada/BillofRights.html, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_bear_arms#Canada Drew On 10/17/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Yeah, well Canada isn't domestic US and I doubt they have a second > amendment > either. > > BK > > > On 10/17/06, Drew wrote: > > > > Bryan, > > > > I see that you stated, "domestic", but I just wanted to add this, watch > > out > > for Air Canada, that extra care will cost you $50 one-way, > > > > > http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=290a01ee-6f4b -4890-b21d-3f22c5ad5690&k=40857 > > > > Drew > > > > > > On 10/17/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > > Well there is a trick that Americans can use on domestic flights, > > > photographers have been doing it. You can place a starter pistol in > the > > > bag > > > (a pistol that only fires blanks). That is classified as a firearm > under > > > US > > > regs and that bag is given special treatment, carried straight to the > > > aircraft and NOT touched by baggage handlers. > > > > > > You just tell the check in clerk that there is a firearm in the bag, > > they > > > will give you a card to take to the TSA desk with the bag, the TSA > > people > > > examine the bag, right then in front of you, and they then use YOUR > lock > > > to > > > lock the bag, and then it is carried straight to the plane. You can do > > it > > > with multiple bags too. And the bag is hand carried off the plane to > you > > > as > > > well. > > > > > > In most of the unfree world this doesn't work obviously. > > > > > > BK > > > > > > > > > On 10/17/06, Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes > > > > > > > > A curmudgeon with too much pride, seizing an opportunity to complain > > > about > > > > anything and showcase his nationalism. > > > > > > > > Yes, and we do have our share of power-hungry curmudgeons. But this > > is > > > > nothing new. I remember once, several years ago and before all this > > new > > > > stuff came up, when I was heading for Australia from LA, the person > at > > > > Qantas (and I think she was an Aussie!) grabbed my backpack, which > had > > > my > > > > camera gear in it as well as my purse and several other things; > > weighed > > > it > > > > (only time my backpack has ever been weighed - although it has been > > > > measured > > > > a time or two) said "too heavy, you'll have to check it!" I > explained > > > that > > > > it was delicate (and expensive) camera equipment that I didn't want > > > > smashed. > > > > And I pointed out that the size was well within the limits for > > carry-on. > > > > Despite that, [she did let me take my purse out (which probably > > brought > > > it > > > > within the weight limits)], she tagged it, grumped, angrily, "I'll > put > > a > > > > 'fragile' sticker on it". Which she did. And then picked it up and > > > > casually > > > > THREW it about 6-8 feet onto the conveyer belt, and smirked at > > > me. (They > > > > broke one of my exposure meters.) > > > > > > > > Margaret > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Robert Thorson said that he was at fault, but I hardly agree, > because > > > it > > > > >says nothing on the TSA site about rock or mineral specimens being > > > > >prohibited, here is the site, > > > > > > > http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited- > > > > >ite > > > > ms.shtm. > > > > >No mention of dual use on that entire page, just a definition on a > > > > >different > > > > >page (which also mentions a list of dual-use items, but I cannot > find > > > > that > > > > >list), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Aviation_and_Transportation_Security_Act_ATSA > > > > >_Public_Law_107_1771.pdf > > > > > > > > >Personally, I found the post to be helpful, because I had never > > thought > > > > >about rock/mineral specimens being "dual-use" items. I mean if you > > > > really > > > > >want to get down and dirty, then you better check everything, > because > > > > >anything can be used to kill someone. A pen/pencil (as mentioned) > > can > > > be > > > > >used, a CD can be broken and used to cut/stab, a laptop can be used > - > > > > just > > > > >take the battery out and use it like you would a rock, headphone > wire > > > can > > > > >be > > > > >used to strangle, you could stab someone with your car keys! I > mean > > > > c'mon! > > > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > > multipart/alternative > > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > > text/html > > > > --- > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 19839079) is spam: > > > > Spam: > > > > > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > > > > Not spam: > > > > > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > > > > Forget vote: > > > > > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > J Bryan Kramer > > > photos at: > > > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From JHODEL at wvdep.org Tue Oct 17 12:25:21 2006 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Tue Oct 17 12:25:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks in stacks on Hawaii Message-ID: Hi: When we visited Hawaii last winter, I was awed by the constructed rock walls and temples created by the native Hawaiians over the centuries they have lived on the Island. Fitted together in "dry stone" style, with no mortar into very regular walls and patforms with sharp corners and straight lines, they were strange and beautiful. I wonder how they stood up to the earthshaking event? Kitty, has the local media shown any interest in the stability of the old Hawaiian temples and walls? Also, I kept an eye on the Kilieua volcano cam for quite a while after hearing about the event, and then it went away * probably due to a UPS finally running out of PS somewhere in the network. But I wonder if a big shake like this will have any perceptable effect on the eruption going on on the southern flank of the volcano? In the not-so-ancient past there have been lava flows all over the island, and there are cinder cones and other obvious to an amateur signs of major volcanic activity everywhere. Are there any signs of new activity in the areas of Hawaii where there hasn't been eruptive activity in the past century or so? Thanks, JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Tue Oct 17 13:17:12 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Tue Oct 17 13:17:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20061017201712.1DBB74D25D@io.frii.com> > They are formed of huge steep-sided volcanoes and the sides of these > volcanic complexes can fail and slide into deep waters of the ocean. As you wrote, nothing is ever that simple, is it? Actually (I'm no expert but from personal experience) the shield volcanoes, being mafic (peaceful) rather than silicated (more explosive), are remarkably low-profile for their sizes. Of course, if you watch the hot lava hit the ocean with a sizzle, you can imagine that the undersea slopes are steeper (and more rubbly?) than those above water, and I seem to recall noticing this on a topo map. I suspect that much of the steeper relief terrain in the Hawaiian islands results from erosion, not from the initial lava flows. Also as you grunt to the top of Mauna Loa, you can appreciate that it's not flat either, just not "really steep". Kitty et al, in the areas where the earthquake caused landslides recently, do you know if that was relatively fresh lava terrain, or older, eroded hillsides? Thanks, Alan Silverstein From jaszczak at mtu.edu Tue Oct 17 13:33:53 2006 From: jaszczak at mtu.edu (John Jaszczak) Date: Tue Oct 17 13:33:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: <000001c6f218$29cd38d0$2101a8c0@D3JM7W21> References: <000001c6f218$29cd38d0$2101a8c0@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <45353E31.7080808@mtu.edu> I traveled to India this August for a nanotechnology conference and was able to spend one day in the Trivandrum area with two geologists to collect graphite (yes, you read that right...). I was quite nervous about the trip since I arrived in Mumbai on August 15, Independence Day, and the US issued terrorism warnings for Mumbai. I arrived ( 41 hours later) in Cochin without any delays, had a great conference, lovely time collecting, and brought back abuot 20 pounds of graphite-bearing laterite, feldspar, and garnet gneiss. Next I worried about getting it home. Security was incredibly strict, especially in India, where it seemed carry-on and checked baggage was x-rayed multiple times. Despite all the x-ray I never had to unpack and show the rocks, which were in the baggage to be checked. Even my asa 400 film was OK after all that exposure in checked baggage. Interestingly, on a trip back from New Hampshire with excessive graphite packed in my checked luggage, my suitcase arrived at our local airport WITH NO HANDLE. I was lucky to get the thing since that also meant no destination ticket on it! Cheers, John From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 14:21:50 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Oct 17 14:21:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: <20061017201712.1DBB74D25D@io.frii.com> References: <20061017201712.1DBB74D25D@io.frii.com> Message-ID: Well isn't Mauna Loa supposed to be the highest mountain on earth? Something over 50,000 feet when measured from the seafloor to the summit. BK On 10/17/06, Alan Silverstein wrote: > > > They are formed of huge steep-sided volcanoes and the sides of these > > volcanic complexes can fail and slide into deep waters of the ocean. > > As you wrote, nothing is ever that simple, is it? Actually (I'm no > expert but from personal experience) the shield volcanoes, being mafic > (peaceful) rather than silicated (more explosive), are remarkably > low-profile for their sizes. Of course, if you watch the hot lava hit > the ocean with a sizzle, you can imagine that the undersea slopes are > steeper (and more rubbly?) than those above water, and I seem to recall > noticing this on a topo map. > > I suspect that much of the steeper relief terrain in the Hawaiian > islands results from erosion, not from the initial lava flows. Also as > you grunt to the top of Mauna Loa, you can appreciate that it's not flat > either, just not "really steep". > > Kitty et al, in the areas where the earthquake caused landslides > recently, do you know if that was relatively fresh lava terrain, or > older, eroded hillsides? > > Thanks, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From teyancey at mail.tca.net Tue Oct 17 16:08:02 2006 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Tue Oct 17 16:10:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: <45353E31.7080808@mtu.edu> References: <000001c6f218$29cd38d0$2101a8c0@D3JM7W21> <45353E31.7080808@mtu.edu> Message-ID: John, multiple X-ray examination without bothering to check the contents seems to be common in some other countries and it seems to be the equivalent of our ineffective domestic approach to airline security. On two overseas trips I have observed a similar thing happen. At one checkin my bags went through 4 X-ray units during checkin and the only point at which I was questioned was by the customs officer. He wanted to know if I had permission to take my big load of rocks out of country. I did; and had an official government document to show him, at which point he lost interest in the matter. Tom Yancey >I traveled to India this August for a nanotechnology conference and >was able to spend one day in the >Trivandrum area with two geologists to collect graphite (yes, you >read that right...). > >I was quite nervous about the trip since I arrived in Mumbai on >August 15, Independence Day, and the US >issued terrorism warnings for Mumbai. I arrived ( 41 hours later) in >Cochin without any delays, had a great >conference, lovely time collecting, and brought back abuot 20 pounds >of graphite-bearing laterite, feldspar, >and garnet gneiss. Next I worried about getting it home. Security >was incredibly strict, especially in India, where >it seemed carry-on and checked baggage was x-rayed multiple times. >Despite all the x-ray I never had >to unpack and show the rocks, which were in the baggage to be >checked. Even my asa 400 film was >OK after all that exposure in checked baggage. > >Interestingly, on a trip back from New Hampshire with excessive >graphite packed in my checked luggage, >my suitcase arrived at our local airport WITH NO HANDLE. I was lucky >to get the thing since that >also meant no destination ticket on it! > >Cheers, >John -- Thomas Yancey From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Oct 17 19:04:24 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Oct 17 19:25:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rocks in stacks on Hawaii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061017151832.03732b58@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Hi JR and others interested in Hawaii, We saw a report on local TV news that the Pu'u Kohola Heiau---which is quite near the earthquake epicenter---had one whole wall collapse. You can find info on that heiau (ancient temple) on the Web, but I couldn't find any mention of the damage, there or in our newspaper. The volcano cam is back up now, and if you go to http://volcano.wr.usgs.gov/hvostatus.php and look for October 15 you'll see that USGS observers report no significant damage to equipment or change in activity at Mauna Loa, Hualalai, or Kilauea. Incidentally, some of the rocks in stacks in the saddle road area of the Big Island are walls that were built as make-work projects for Italian prisoners of war during WW II. Understandably, they are not of as good quality as those built by the ancient Hawaiians. As for new signs of volcanic activity, the only ones I know of are the ones where there has been activity in the past, most notably on the slopes of Mauna Loa, and in the Kilauea area. Aloha, Kitty At 09:25 AM 10/17/2006, you wrote: >Hi: > >When we visited Hawaii last winter, I was awed by the constructed rock >walls and temples created by the native Hawaiians over the centuries they >have lived on the Island. Fitted together in "dry stone" style, with no >mortar into very regular walls and patforms with sharp corners and >straight lines, they were strange and beautiful. > >I wonder how they stood up to the earthshaking event? > >Kitty, has the local media shown any interest in the stability of the old >Hawaiian temples and walls? > >Also, I kept an eye on the Kilieua volcano cam for quite a while after >hearing about the event, and then it went away * probably due to a UPS >finally running out of PS somewhere in the network. But I wonder if a big >shake like this will have any perceptable effect on the eruption going on >on the southern flank of the volcano? > >In the not-so-ancient past there have been lava flows all over the island, >and there are cinder cones and other obvious to an amateur signs of major >volcanic activity everywhere. Are there any signs of new activity in the >areas of Hawaii where there hasn't been eruptive activity in the past >century or so? > >Thanks, > >JR From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Oct 17 19:13:14 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Oct 17 19:25:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes In-Reply-To: <20061017201712.1DBB74D25D@io.frii.com> References: <20061017201712.1DBB74D25D@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061017160550.037328c8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> The landslides were on old cliffs along the ocean where there has not been any volcanic activity in centuries. Some were on the Hamakua Coast, north of Hilo, on the east and northeast coast. This is basically the lower slopes of Mauna Kea which is a dormant volcano and hasn't erupted in about 4000 years. The other major slide was at Kealakekua Bay, and there's been no volcanic activity there for probably 1000 years or more. And BTW, we were awakened at 5:27 this morning by another aftershock rated at 4.8. Aloha, Kitty At 10:17 AM 10/17/2006, you wrote: > > >Kitty et al, in the areas where the earthquake caused landslides >recently, do you know if that was relatively fresh lava terrain, or >older, eroded hillsides? > >Thanks, >Alan Silverstein >-- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Tue Oct 17 20:09:54 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Tue Oct 17 20:10:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes References: Message-ID: <009501c6f262$e2d75f00$6401a8c0@CMC3101861A> First off, thank you to all the list members who didn't mind replying in a polite way to my request for knowledge. I was NOT debateing anything in the article Grant posted, but was merely asking for some clarification. I will admit I posted the questions hurriedly as I was catching up on days worth of mail and probably didn't word it in the right way. I would love to have the time right now to read all the in-depth analyses of the Hawaiian earthquake, but I don't, so I appreciate the concise explanations. Yes, I CAN understand the scientific pages about the earthquake, until it comes to all the wave forms and such. Not my thing! So...the next time I ask a stupid question, that you don't want to answer, just DON'T. Back into lurk mode... Jeanette From roughrock at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 20:11:04 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Tue Oct 17 20:11:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] what's a penny worth? Message-ID: Zinc passed the $1.80 mark today, that means the current "penny" has a melt value of $0.0101867. All the coins in your penny jar are worth more than their denomination (except for steel cents made during WW2). http://www.coinflation.com/cent_milestone.html If you have questions please do not address them to me. I don't know the answer ;-) Grant From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Oct 17 20:11:27 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Oct 17 20:11:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite References: Message-ID: <009801c6f263$1a3edf90$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I was aware of it because the owner of the PaleoList group that I am on was involved in the excavation. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:04 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite I'm surprised this isn't on the list before now: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15294523/ Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Try the new Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 07:26:54 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Oct 18 07:26:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes In-Reply-To: <003401c6f20a$a9567c50$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <20061018142654.34468.qmail@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I suspect this was before TSA came on the scene. My (limited) experience has been that the TSA people are generally more professional and more intelligent than the people that were hired by the airlines or airports. As an example, prior to TSA, my wife & I were flying out of Midway in Chicago. She has metal in her artificial knees that sets off the metal detectors in some airports, and carrys a letter from her orthopedic surgeon to that effect. The inspector ignored the letter entirely, and I suspect could not read it, since it was in English. Jim Margaret Malm wrote: Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rocks on airplanes A curmudgeon with too much pride, seizing an opportunity to complain about anything and showcase his nationalism. Yes, and we do have our share of power-hungry curmudgeons. But this is nothing new. I remember once, several years ago and before all this new stuff came up, when I was heading for Australia from LA, the person at Qantas (and I think she was an Aussie!) grabbed my backpack, which had my camera gear in it as well as my purse and several other things; weighed it (only time my backpack has ever been weighed - although it has been measured a time or two) said "too heavy, you'll have to check it!" I explained that it was delicate (and expensive) camera equipment that I didn't want smashed. And I pointed out that the size was well within the limits for carry-on. Despite that, [she did let me take my purse out (which probably brought it within the weight limits)], she tagged it, grumped, angrily, "I'll put a 'fragile' sticker on it". Which she did. And then picked it up and casually THREW it about 6-8 feet onto the conveyer belt, and smirked at me. (They broke one of my exposure meters.) Margaret >Robert Thorson said that he was at fault, but I hardly agree, because it >says nothing on the TSA site about rock or mineral specimens being >prohibited, here is the site, >http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited->ite ms.shtm. >No mention of dual use on that entire page, just a definition on a >different >page (which also mentions a list of dual-use items, but I cannot find that >list), >http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/Aviation_and_Transportation_Security_Act_ATSA >_Public_Law_107_1771.pdf >Personally, I found the post to be helpful, because I had never thought >about rock/mineral specimens being "dual-use" items. I mean if you really >want to get down and dirty, then you better check everything, because >anything can be used to kill someone. A pen/pencil (as mentioned) can be >used, a CD can be broken and used to cut/stab, a laptop can be used - just >take the battery out and use it like you would a rock, headphone wire can >be >used to strangle, you could stab someone with your car keys! I mean c'mon! Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS ------------------------------------------------------ Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 19839079) is spam: Spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 Not spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 Forget vote: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=19839079&m=4f7676a6ba22 ------------------------------------------------------ END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Wed Oct 18 08:13:40 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Wed Oct 18 08:17:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New dino age mammal from Alberta References: <8d702da4b921a059347061fced0a12c5@comcast.net> Message-ID: <00fc01c6f2c7$ffcb3900$78149444@michael01> It's too bad, really, that it has taken so long. Fox was offered some years ago a VERY large amount of material collected by a private collector that may have shed some light on the existence of this animal years earlier. However, he flat out refused to have anything to do with it because of the fact it was collected by an amateur, and there was a commercial aspect to it. Pity, as so many of his colleagues have the exact opposite view, and are more than happy to work with amateurs. As a result, they have access to materials that normally they would probably never get their hands on, and the result is they publish more and get more grant money. But then there are researchers like Dick Fox......yes...dinosaurs indeed. Michael From: "John Joldersma" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: "John Joldersma" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 10:13 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] New dino age mammal from Alberta > Mysterious teeth have been found in Alberta for 30 years. They have been > identified. > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061016.wxmammal17/ > BNStory/Science/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From tangojuli at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 08:53:17 2006 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Wed Oct 18 08:53:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] acrylic display shelves Message-ID: <20061018155317.61728.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com> Good morning all, Two questions: 1. Wondered: does anyone have any sources on acrylic stair step shelves for displaying minerals? 2. Does anyone know the name/contact info of the female Texas vendor who sells all the rock collector storage supplies like acrylic stands, mounts, perkies, etc? She was at Tucson (don't recall which hotel) and had spread out to the walkway in front of her room with stands of baggies etc. She also had these pretty nice little stair step shelves with two screw on legs for around $20 for a 9 inch stand. I am interseted in other options too. Thanks for any help you can provide, Sincerely, Tina T barstow, CA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Wed Oct 18 09:44:47 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Oct 18 09:44:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] acrylic display shelves In-Reply-To: <20061018155317.61728.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061018155317.61728.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20061018094044.033aa520@orerockon.com> I would go to Jule-Art's site; they seem to have everything acrylic: http://www.jule-art.com/ You have to be a "wholesale customer" to buy direct from them but I'm sure you know how to accomplish that ;) At 08:53 AM 10/18/2006, you wrote: >Good morning all, > Two questions: > 1. Wondered: does anyone have any sources on acrylic stair step > shelves for displaying minerals? > 2. Does anyone know the name/contact info of the female Texas > vendor who sells all the rock collector storage supplies like > acrylic stands, mounts, perkies, etc? She was at Tucson (don't > recall which hotel) and had spread out to the walkway in front of > her room with stands of baggies etc. > She also had these pretty nice little stair step shelves with two > screw on legs for around $20 for a 9 inch stand. > I am interseted in other options too. > Thanks for any help you can provide, > Sincerely, > Tina T > barstow, CA > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Wed Oct 18 09:58:37 2006 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Richard Trapp) Date: Wed Oct 18 09:58:32 2006 Subject: *SPAM* [Rockhounds] acrylic display shelves In-Reply-To: <20061018155317.61728.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061018155317.61728.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45365D3D.3050800@azgs.az.gov> Jeanne's Rock and Jewelry 5420 Bissonnet Houston, TX 77401 sometimes the address is listed as Bellaire, TX - suburb of Houston?? (713) 664-2988 exhibits at InnSuites Hotel in Tucson tango juli wrote: >Good morning all, > Two questions: > 1. Wondered: does anyone have any sources on acrylic stair step shelves for displaying minerals? > 2. Does anyone know the name/contact info of the female Texas vendor who sells all the rock collector storage supplies like acrylic stands, mounts, perkies, etc? She was at Tucson (don't recall which hotel) and had spread out to the walkway in front of her room with stands of baggies etc. > She also had these pretty nice little stair step shelves with two screw on legs for around $20 for a 9 inch stand. > I am interseted in other options too. > Thanks for any help you can provide, > Sincerely, > Tina T > barstow, CA > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 10:46:35 2006 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (Sandra B. Gee) Date: Wed Oct 18 10:46:41 2006 Subject: *SPAM* [Rockhounds] acrylic display shelves In-Reply-To: <45365D3D.3050800@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <20061018174635.24177.qmail@web34212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Correct address is Bellaire, TX 77401. Bellaire is a town of about 15,000 with its own city govt/police/fire/public works dept that is completely engulfed within the Houston city limits. --- Richard Trapp wrote: > Jeanne's Rock and Jewelry > 5420 Bissonnet > Houston, TX 77401 > > sometimes the address is listed as Bellaire, TX - > suburb of Houston?? > > > (713) 664-2988 > > exhibits at InnSuites Hotel in Tucson > > > tango juli wrote: > > >Good morning all, > > Two questions: > > 1. Wondered: does anyone have any sources on > acrylic stair step shelves for displaying minerals? > > 2. Does anyone know the name/contact info of the > female Texas vendor who sells all the rock > collector storage supplies like acrylic stands, > mounts, perkies, etc? She was at Tucson (don't > recall which hotel) and had spread out to the > walkway in front of her room with stands of baggies > etc. > > She also had these pretty nice little stair step > shelves with two screw on legs for around $20 for a > 9 inch stand. > > I am interseted in other options too. > > Thanks for any help you can provide, > > Sincerely, > > Tina T > > barstow, CA > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > >--- > > > > > > -- > Rick Trapp > Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey > rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From agate at cox.net Wed Oct 18 14:53:58 2006 From: agate at cox.net (Hugh Hammerslag) Date: Wed Oct 18 14:54:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] acrylic display shelves Message-ID: <2989838.1161208438314.JavaMail.root@fed1wml10.mgt.cox.net> ---- tango juli wrote: ============= Good morning all, Two questions: 1. Wondered: does anyone have any sources on acrylic stair step shelves for displaying minerals? Tina T barstow, CA Tina You can get these items and much more at: Tucson Store Fixtures www.tucsonstorefixtures.com They handle a bunch of stuff including the display cases use by many dealers at TGMS. From tjokela at execulink.com Wed Oct 18 15:06:33 2006 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Wed Oct 18 15:06:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted References: <8d702da4b921a059347061fced0a12c5@comcast.net> <00fc01c6f2c7$ffcb3900$78149444@michael01> Message-ID: <000f01c6f301$ac23c4e0$6400a8c0@Junior> I'm looking for slides of crystallized fluorite specimens. The specimens have to be great, and the photos very good. Min Rec quality is what I'm after, stuff from the classic localities mostly; Alpine pink, UK greens, fabulous Spanish, killer Elmwood, etc. If there are any photographers out there still shooting slide film, please drop me an email and we'll work something out. I've got to put together a slideshow for my club on the mineral and being able to buy a bunch of slides would save me a ton of work. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Oct 18 15:15:49 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Oct 18 15:15:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted In-Reply-To: <000f01c6f301$ac23c4e0$6400a8c0@Junior> References: <8d702da4b921a059347061fced0a12c5@comcast.net> <00fc01c6f2c7$ffcb3900$78149444@michael01> <000f01c6f301$ac23c4e0$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: Tim, Just for your info, you can easily get slides made from digital files. BK On 10/18/06, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > I'm looking for slides of crystallized fluorite specimens. The specimens > have to be great, and the photos very good. Min Rec quality is what I'm > after, stuff from the classic localities mostly; Alpine pink, UK greens, > fabulous Spanish, killer Elmwood, etc. If there are any photographers out > there still shooting slide film, please drop me an email and we'll work > something out. I've got to put together a slideshow for my club on the > mineral and being able to buy a bunch of slides would save me a ton of > work. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jemstone at amug.org Wed Oct 18 15:33:25 2006 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Wed Oct 18 15:33:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs References: <20061010004535.69799.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00d801c6f305$705fa420$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> I'm late posting for this discussion but I wanted to pass on a somewhat different vibrating flat lap technique I saw being used in Perth, AU last year. We visited some professional lapidaries who polish hundreds of slabs every month. They used large vibrating laps that had at least a half inch of water in each lap. They were working outdoors and Perth gets warm in the summer, so they had adopted a technique that used lots of water in the pans of grit, not the thick slurry that I had been advised to use. Each grit was in a separate pan - well they were pros. There was at least a half inch of water in each pan. The biggest difference was in the final polish. They had the polishing pan lined with the cheapest indoor/outdoor carpeting they could find (a felt looking carpet) and used sapphire powder (corundum) for the polish. They explained that a friend had gone on a business trip a few years ago and had left his vibrating lap running with the wet sapphire powder. He did not remember the lap for two days and when he finally phoned his wife, he just asked her to turn off the lap and said he would clean up the mess when he got home. What he discovered was that the slabs had taken a mirror polish. Since that time the lapidaries we visited had just used dry sapphire powder for the polish. They stressed the need to used a felt type carpet - the better quality carpets had not worked. I have not tried the method, though I'm planning to. However, we saw the slabs they were completing and the dry pan they were using for final polish, so they weren't "having us on." I bought two beautiful slabs of blue, red and gold tiger iron that were finished this way. They were also polishing chrysoprase and the material that's often called lemon chrysoprase - actually magnesite, using this technique. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona From: "Grant Johnston" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs >I think part of that depends on you. How much time do you want to > spend doing the work? I have a dual pan vibrating flat lap. I fill it > with rocks, plug it in, and check every hour or two to make sure it's > still wet enough. > > I get it started then get on my computer and work until I remember to > check the lap. > > For me, changing to a smaller (finer) grit requires cleaning both pans > and all the rocks in them. And everything has to be really clean. One > piece of the larger grit can contaminate a pan. > > So I do my work with a bunch of rocks but I have a free hour between > checking the water, and 4 or more hours between cleaning the pans. And > Tom stands there, polishing one rock after another. When he's done > with a pile of slabs he changes to a finer lap and works through that > pile again. > > Grant JohnstoN, Chico, CA From tim at orerockon.com Wed Oct 18 16:53:16 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Oct 18 16:53:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs In-Reply-To: <00d801c6f305$705fa420$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> References: <20061010004535.69799.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00d801c6f305$705fa420$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20061018164146.038f8438@orerockon.com> John, nearly dry Linde A (aka sapphire) on felt is a common polishing technique, developed (I believe) by faceters. At least that is where I first learned of & used it. I get the felt wet enough so the powder sticks, sprinkle it on from a salt shaker, load on the slabs and then turn the lap on & forget about it for a few days. Pool table felt is perfect for this purpose; you can get a square then cut it round to fit your lap. If the felt is wet, the powder "sinks" into the felt, hence it is always run dry or barely damp. It works great on hard-to-polish materials (such as their tiger iron and lemon chrysoprase) that have different minerals of different hardnesses, and also on tough to polish materials like obsidian. It is, however, an extremely expensive way to polish, as Linde A is about $10/oz., roughly 10 times the cost of optical cerium oxide. A word of warning though: they were using different laps for each grit for a reason. Linde A will get into the surface of your lap & stay there, forever, since it is about 2 micron mesh or so. That won't be a problem unless you use another polish in that lap, then you might get unexpected results. At 03:33 PM 10/18/2006, you wrote: >I'm late posting for this discussion but I wanted to pass on a >somewhat different vibrating flat lap technique I saw being used in >Perth, AU last year. We visited some professional lapidaries who >polish hundreds of slabs every month. They used large vibrating >laps that had at least a half inch of water in each lap. They were >working outdoors and Perth gets warm in the summer, so they had >adopted a technique that used lots of water in the pans of grit, not >the thick slurry that I had been advised to use. Each grit was in a >separate pan - well they were pros. There was at least a half inch >of water in each pan. > >The biggest difference was in the final polish. They had the >polishing pan lined with the cheapest indoor/outdoor carpeting they >could find (a felt looking carpet) and used sapphire powder >(corundum) for the polish. They explained that a friend had gone on >a business trip a few years ago and had left his vibrating lap >running with the wet sapphire powder. He did not remember the lap >for two days and when he finally phoned his wife, he just asked her >to turn off the lap and said he would clean up the mess when he got >home. What he discovered was that the slabs had taken a mirror >polish. Since that time the lapidaries we visited had just used dry >sapphire powder for the polish. They stressed the need to used a >felt type carpet - the better quality carpets had not worked. > >I have not tried the method, though I'm planning to. However, we >saw the slabs they were completing and the dry pan they were using >for final polish, so they weren't "having us on." I bought two >beautiful slabs of blue, red and gold tiger iron that were finished >this way. They were also polishing chrysoprase and the material >that's often called lemon chrysoprase - actually magnesite, using >this technique. > >John McLaughlin >Glendale, Arizona > > >F Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From albalmer at att.net Wed Oct 18 17:21:56 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Oct 18 17:22:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20061018164146.038f8438@orerockon.com> References: <20061010004535.69799.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00d801c6f305$705fa420$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> <7.0.0.16.2.20061018164146.038f8438@orerockon.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:53:16 -0700, Tim Fisher wrote: >John, nearly dry Linde A (aka sapphire) on felt is a common polishing >technique, developed (I believe) by faceters. At least that is where >I first learned of & used it. Yes, faceters use Linde A to polish many materials, and nearly dry seems to work best in many cases. However, I doubt that they'd use felt, since it would round the facets to the point of destruction :-) I don't use it much myself, though sometimes it seems to give a little extra to a 50K diamond polish. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Oct 18 17:43:27 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Oct 18 17:43:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite Message-ID: Interesting to me. I hope oihers find it so. Glenn > From: deepskyspy@insightbb.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Meteorite> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 23:11:27 -0400> > I was aware of it because the owner of the PaleoList group that I am on was > involved in the excavation.> > Alan> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Glenn Wimpee" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:04 AM> Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite> > > I'm surprised this isn't on the list before now:> > http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15294523/> Glenn> _________________________________________________________________> Try the new Live Search today!> http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Wed Oct 18 18:20:43 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Oct 18 18:20:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs In-Reply-To: References: <20061010004535.69799.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00d801c6f305$705fa420$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> <7.0.0.16.2.20061018164146.038f8438@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20061018181910.034091a0@orerockon.com> lol I didnt say I used felt on my sunstones; corian works just fine thanks :P At 05:21 PM 10/18/2006, you wrote: >On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:53:16 -0700, Tim Fisher >wrote: > > >John, nearly dry Linde A (aka sapphire) on felt is a common polishing > >technique, developed (I believe) by faceters. At least that is where > >I first learned of & used it. > >Yes, faceters use Linde A to polish many materials, and nearly dry >seems to work best in many cases. However, I doubt that they'd use >felt, since it would round the facets to the point of destruction :-) > >I don't use it much myself, though sometimes it seems to give a little >extra to a 50K diamond polish. > >-- >Al Balmer >Sun City, AZ > >-- Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Wed Oct 18 21:15:46 2006 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Wed Oct 18 21:15:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. St. Helens pix on my webpage! Message-ID: I have just uploaded some fresh Mt. St. Helens photos on my myspace page. They are on a slide show, but you can also see them under pics on the left hand side you can click a larger view of them. Advise or tips are welcome! I used a Sony Cyber-shot with a 3x zoom. http://www.myspace.com/partylights From tangojuli at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 07:46:50 2006 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Thu Oct 19 07:46:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] SoCal FOM Mineral Symposium-10/28-29 Message-ID: <20061019144650.54677.qmail@web60819.mail.yahoo.com> If you are in Southern California next weekend, consider the Mineral Locality Symposium THEME: Mines and Minerals Near Joshua Tree National Park October 28, 2006 Followed by a field trip in the Joshua Tree Area on Sunday, October 29 $5.00, Saturday Lectures & Field Trip $5.00, Sunday Field Trip Sponsored By Friends of Mineralogy (Southern California Chapter) & Copper Mountain College Copper Mountain Community College 6162 Rotary Way Joshua Tree , CA 92252 CMC Tel: 760.366.3791 x0266 (Bruce Bridenbecker) Cell contact if lost: 619.244.0757 (Doug Peeler) Take Interstate 10 Past Whitewater to Highway 62, then northeast approximately 35 miles on Hwy 62 to the Town of Joshua Tree. East of Joshua Tree on Highway 62 is Sunfair Road. Continue two miles to Rotary Way, Turn North (Left). Turn left at 6162 Rotary Way , which intersects with the Highway 62 and is about seven minutes east of the town of Joshua Tree . Follow the signs to: Room CMC 5, Phase 1 (upper level) Saturday Symposium & Field Trip 9:00 AM Registration for Symposium and Field Trip Coffee and snacks available 9:45 Welcome, Bob Reynolds, President, SCFM 9:50 History of Copper Mountain College and staff personal interests, Professor Bruce Bridenbecker 10:00 Regional Geology and Ore Body Emplacement of the Joshua Tree Area Mineral Deposits Bruce Bridenbecker, Professor of Earth & Physical Science, Copper Mountain College 11:00 Southern California Volcanism Molly McCanta, Professor of Geology, Pomona College 12:00 ? 1:00 PM Lunch Break - Lunch Tables Available Lunch Meeting - SCFM meeting 1:00 Origin of Spheroidal Granitic Landforms at Joshua Tree Robert E. Reynolds, LSA Associates, Inc. 2:00 Fieldtrip Introduction: Mining History and Localities in the Dale District Jim Worff, Mining Consultant 3:00 Silent Mineral Auction, Please bring mineral specimens for auction. 3:30 Afternoon fieldtrip led by Bruce Bridenbecker to the porphyritic granites and pegmatites at Rattlesnake Canyon/Indian Cove Camp Ground. Sunday Field Trip Information 9:00 a.m. Meet at the ranger station at Joshua Tree National Park north gate and consolidate into 4WD vehicles. 9:30 a.m. Head down Gold Crown Road to the Gold Crown Mine Lunch in the field. Work our way back toward the Park 12:30 p.m. Arrive at the Virginia Dale Mine. 3:30 p.m. Leave for home. The Virginia Dale Mine is situated close to the Park access road so people who want to leave early will find it easy to get back into the Park and leave for home. Please note: None of these mines are accessible without 4WD. Please Arrange Car Pooling in advance by calling or emailing Doug or Jennifer stating "Need Ride" or "Have Room." There will be a $15 per car NPS entrance fee per vehicle for this field trip. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tangojuli at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 08:03:52 2006 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Thu Oct 19 08:03:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] acrylic shelves: thanks all! Message-ID: <20061019150352.96009.qmail@web60821.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions about the acrylic shelves! tina Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:44:47 -0700 From: Tim Fisher Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] acrylic display shelves To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20061018094044.033aa520@orerockon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I would go to Jule-Art's site; they seem to have everything acrylic: http://www.jule-art.com/ You have to be a "wholesale customer" to buy direct from them but I'm sure you know how to accomplish that ;) At 08:53 AM 10/18/2006, you wrote: >Good morning all, > Two questions: > 1. Wondered: does anyone have any sources on acrylic stair step > shelves for displaying minerals? > 2. Does anyone know the name/contact info of the female Texas > vendor who sells all the rock collector storage supplies like > acrylic stands, mounts, perkies, etc? > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Thu Oct 19 08:21:36 2006 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu Oct 19 08:21:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted References: <8d702da4b921a059347061fced0a12c5@comcast.net><00fc01c6f2c7$ffcb3900$78149444@michael01><000f01c6f301$ac23c4e0$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <004e01c6f392$448d3f00$6400a8c0@Junior> Yep, but it's expensive and takes weeks. Six bucks an image or something was the best I found locally. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" > Tim, > Just for your info, you can easily get slides made from digital files. > > BK From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Oct 19 08:50:04 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Oct 19 08:50:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted In-Reply-To: <004e01c6f392$448d3f00$6400a8c0@Junior> References: <8d702da4b921a059347061fced0a12c5@comcast.net> <00fc01c6f2c7$ffcb3900$78149444@michael01> <000f01c6f301$ac23c4e0$6400a8c0@Junior> <004e01c6f392$448d3f00$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: Wow, I had it done years ago at some Kinko type store and they did it overnight for something like $20 for 30 slides. Here are a couple of online services that are a bit cheaper and offer quick turn-around: http://slides.com/ They seem to run around $2.50/slide BK On 10/19/06, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > Yep, but it's expensive and takes weeks. Six bucks an image or something > was > the best I found locally. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > > > > Tim, > > Just for your info, you can easily get slides made from digital files. > > > > BK > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Oct 19 09:35:43 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Oct 19 09:35:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted In-Reply-To: <004e01c6f392$448d3f00$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: I did some prof. scanning from slides that I made for a Finnish science magazine. I use a Canoscan 8400F which is very reasonably priced but the scans are indeed of excellent quality. They (Canon) call it "pre-press" but it's good enough for publication. Even A4 and larger scans are razor sharp. Imho you're better off buying something like that than spending money on photo shops. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Tim Jokela Jr. > Verzonden: donderdag 19 oktober 2006 16:22 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted > > > Yep, but it's expensive and takes weeks. Six bucks an image or > something was > the best I found locally. > > Cheers, > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > > > > Tim, > > Just for your info, you can easily get slides made from digital files. > > > > BK > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Oct 19 09:38:27 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Oct 19 09:38:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted In-Reply-To: References: <004e01c6f392$448d3f00$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <7aac8040610190938v3a3c1368uc77397835233d1fc@mail.gmail.com> Axel, I think Tim *needs* slides, not *reproductions of* slides. So I don't think that the Canonscan would help there... Drew On 10/19/06, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > I did some prof. scanning from slides that I made for a Finnish science > magazine. I use a Canoscan 8400F which is very reasonably priced but the > scans are indeed of excellent quality. They (Canon) call it "pre-press" > but > it's good enough for publication. Even A4 and larger scans are razor > sharp. > > Imho you're better off buying something like that than spending money on > photo shops. > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Tim Jokela Jr. > > Verzonden: donderdag 19 oktober 2006 16:22 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted > > > > > > Yep, but it's expensive and takes weeks. Six bucks an image or > > something was > > the best I found locally. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > > > > > > > Tim, > > > Just for your info, you can easily get slides made from digital > files. > > > > > > BK > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Oct 19 09:48:13 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Oct 19 09:48:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted In-Reply-To: References: <004e01c6f392$448d3f00$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: He needs to go the other way though, from digital to slides. BK On 10/19/06, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > I did some prof. scanning from slides that I made for a Finnish science > magazine. I use a Canoscan 8400F which is very reasonably priced but the > scans are indeed of excellent quality. They (Canon) call it "pre-press" > but > it's good enough for publication. Even A4 and larger scans are razor > sharp. > > Imho you're better off buying something like that than spending money on > photo shops. > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Tim Jokela Jr. > > Verzonden: donderdag 19 oktober 2006 16:22 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted > > > > > > Yep, but it's expensive and takes weeks. Six bucks an image or > > something was > > the best I found locally. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > > > > > > > Tim, > > > Just for your info, you can easily get slides made from digital > files. > > > > > > BK > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhound at btinternet.com Thu Oct 19 10:10:05 2006 From: rockhound at btinternet.com (Neil A) Date: Thu Oct 19 10:10:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Zany thought... get high res printer (1200dpi +) and print to transparency, then cut and mount. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: 19 October 2006 17:48 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted He needs to go the other way though, from digital to slides. BK On 10/19/06, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > I did some prof. scanning from slides that I made for a Finnish science > magazine. I use a Canoscan 8400F which is very reasonably priced but the > scans are indeed of excellent quality. They (Canon) call it "pre-press" > but > it's good enough for publication. Even A4 and larger scans are razor > sharp. > > Imho you're better off buying something like that than spending money on > photo shops. > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Tim Jokela Jr. > > Verzonden: donderdag 19 oktober 2006 16:22 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted > > > > > > Yep, but it's expensive and takes weeks. Six bucks an image or > > something was > > the best I found locally. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > > > > > > > Tim, > > > Just for your info, you can easily get slides made from digital > files. > > > > > > BK > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rockhound at btinternet.com Thu Oct 19 10:20:31 2006 From: rockhound at btinternet.com (Neil A) Date: Thu Oct 19 10:20:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Zany thought #2... Use digital files and hire a digital projector to plug into your computer -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Neil A Sent: 19 October 2006 18:10 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted Zany thought... get high res printer (1200dpi +) and print to transparency, then cut and mount. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: 19 October 2006 17:48 To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted He needs to go the other way though, from digital to slides. BK On 10/19/06, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > I did some prof. scanning from slides that I made for a Finnish science > magazine. I use a Canoscan 8400F which is very reasonably priced but the > scans are indeed of excellent quality. They (Canon) call it "pre-press" > but > it's good enough for publication. Even A4 and larger scans are razor > sharp. > > Imho you're better off buying something like that than spending money on > photo shops. > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Tim Jokela Jr. > > Verzonden: donderdag 19 oktober 2006 16:22 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted > > > > > > Yep, but it's expensive and takes weeks. Six bucks an image or > > something was > > the best I found locally. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > > > > > > > Tim, > > > Just for your info, you can easily get slides made from digital > files. > > > > > > BK > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tjokela at execulink.com Thu Oct 19 11:54:36 2006 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu Oct 19 11:54:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted References: Message-ID: <001701c6f3b0$064e0d50$6400a8c0@Junior> Zany thought #3.... digital projector minimum $1,000 US. Laptop about the same. Software more hundreds. Not an option, neither my club nor I can afford that kind of outlay for something we'd use a couple times a year. Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil A" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 1:20 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted > Zany thought #2... Use digital files and hire a digital projector to plug > into your computer > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Neil A > Sent: 19 October 2006 18:10 > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted > > > Zany thought... get high res printer (1200dpi +) and print to > transparency, > then cut and mount. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer > Sent: 19 October 2006 17:48 > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted > > > He needs to go the other way though, from digital to slides. > > BK > > > On 10/19/06, Axel Emmermann wrote: >> >> I did some prof. scanning from slides that I made for a Finnish science >> magazine. I use a Canoscan 8400F which is very reasonably priced but the >> scans are indeed of excellent quality. They (Canon) call it "pre-press" >> but >> it's good enough for publication. Even A4 and larger scans are razor >> sharp. >> >> Imho you're better off buying something like that than spending money on >> photo shops. >> >> Axel >> >> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Tim Jokela Jr. >> > Verzonden: donderdag 19 oktober 2006 16:22 >> > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted >> > >> > >> > Yep, but it's expensive and takes weeks. Six bucks an image or >> > something was >> > the best I found locally. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > >> > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >> > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com >> > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com >> > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "J Bryan Kramer" >> > >> > >> > > Tim, >> > > Just for your info, you can easily get slides made from digital >> files. >> > > >> > > BK >> > >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 13:21:33 2006 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Thu Oct 19 13:21:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs Message-ID: <20061019202134.12461.qmail@web35613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I would like to say a special Thank You to all the replies to my questions. They were all greatly appreciated and helpful. June Young MN --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Thu Oct 19 13:41:15 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Oct 19 13:41:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Small Engine etc. parts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20061019133809.038fd848@orerockon.com> I have had air compressor problems for what seems like forever. Comes from buying sub-$1000 compressors, no doubt. Anyway I ran across this website whilst looking for parts; they seem to have parts for just about any piece of equipment you can imagine that has a motor (start with everything sold at the big home improvement chains), and they were surprisingly cheap & very fast. http://www.lorogold.com/index.htm Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From albalmer at att.net Thu Oct 19 16:02:26 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Oct 19 16:02:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Polishing Slabs In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20061018181910.034091a0@orerockon.com> References: <20061010004535.69799.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00d801c6f305$705fa420$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> <7.0.0.16.2.20061018164146.038f8438@orerockon.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20061018181910.034091a0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:20:43 -0700, Tim Fisher wrote: >lol I didnt say I used felt on my sunstones; corian works just fine thanks :P I don't even use Linde A on sunstone - I seem to get the best results with CeO. It's amazing how unscientific polishing for faceting is. Different techniques work for different people, and nobody really understands why. > >At 05:21 PM 10/18/2006, you wrote: >>On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 16:53:16 -0700, Tim Fisher >>wrote: >> >> >John, nearly dry Linde A (aka sapphire) on felt is a common polishing >> >technique, developed (I believe) by faceters. At least that is where >> >I first learned of & used it. >> >>Yes, faceters use Linde A to polish many materials, and nearly dry >>seems to work best in many cases. However, I doubt that they'd use >>felt, since it would round the facets to the point of destruction :-) >> >>I don't use it much myself, though sometimes it seems to give a little >>extra to a 50K diamond polish. >> >>-- >>Al Balmer >>Sun City, AZ >> >>-- > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From efkern at earthlink.net Thu Oct 19 17:09:46 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Thu Oct 19 17:09:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Equador / Tungurahua Activity- real time seismograms and SSAM plots Message-ID: <001b01c6f3dc$0de9f930$cbf8f604@TheBlackAdder> **************************** From: Minard Hall **************************** The Instituto Geofisco in Quito, Ecuador, invites you to visit our web page (www.igepn.edu.ec) to follow in real time the ongoing seismic activity of Tungurahua volcano which has stepped up its activity during the previous week. Real time seismograms and frequency plots (SSAM) are readily available for inspection. Strombolian activity and strong ash emissions are presently accompanying the reactivation of this volcano. In addition the web page presents information about many Ecuadorian volcanoes and studies in progress. M. Hall Minard L. (Pete) Hall Instituto Geof?sico Escuela Polit?cnica Nacional Casilla 1701-2759 Quito, Ecuador Tel. 593-2-222-5655 Fax 593-2-256-7847 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Oct 20 04:41:35 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Oct 20 04:41:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Holy Cow, Batman! Uranium as part of a life cycle! Message-ID: <20061020114135.38693.qmail@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Well, just when you think you've heard it all, along comes some scientist to prove you were so wrong! http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/4229.html Microbes living 2.5 Km below the Earth's surface, and uranium forms part of their lifecycle! Check this out! JR --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Fri Oct 20 06:31:41 2006 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 20 06:31:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Holy Cow, Batman! Uranium as part of a life cycle! Message-ID: That's a really neat story, JR, thanks for sending it to the list. And I can't take credit for this followup thought, and friend to whom I emailed the story reminded me... Support bacteria! It is the only culture some people have! Pete M. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 21 17:14:29 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 21 16:58:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted References: <001701c6f3b0$064e0d50$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <453AB41C.26D4@Tomaszewski.net> Tim, A rental was suggested. You should be able to find one for under $50/day. Powerpoint software is preferred, but you could use Word. You already have a computer. BTW, you can probably plug your computer into a VCR, which can plug into a TV, and eliminate the need for the digital projector. We've had several presentations at our club using a computer and a TV. Kreigh Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > Zany thought #3.... digital projector minimum $1,000 US. Laptop about the > same. Software more hundreds. Not an option, neither my club nor I can > afford that kind of outlay for something we'd use a couple times a year. > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Neil A" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 1:20 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted > > > Zany thought #2... Use digital files and hire a digital projector to plug > > into your computer > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of Neil A > > Sent: 19 October 2006 18:10 > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted > > > > > > Zany thought... get high res printer (1200dpi +) and print to > > transparency, > > then cut and mount. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer > > Sent: 19 October 2006 17:48 > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted > > > > > > He needs to go the other way though, from digital to slides. > > > > BK > > > > > > On 10/19/06, Axel Emmermann wrote: > >> > >> I did some prof. scanning from slides that I made for a Finnish science > >> magazine. I use a Canoscan 8400F which is very reasonably priced but the > >> scans are indeed of excellent quality. They (Canon) call it "pre-press" > >> but > >> it's good enough for publication. Even A4 and larger scans are razor > >> sharp. > >> > >> Imho you're better off buying something like that than spending money on > >> photo shops. > >> > >> Axel > >> > >> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > >> > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >> > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com]Namens Tim Jokela Jr. > >> > Verzonden: donderdag 19 oktober 2006 16:22 > >> > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > >> > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted > >> > > >> > > >> > Yep, but it's expensive and takes weeks. Six bucks an image or > >> > something was > >> > the best I found locally. > >> > > >> > Cheers, > >> > > >> > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > >> > Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com > >> > The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com > >> > Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com > >> > > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > >> > > >> > > >> > > Tim, > >> > > Just for your info, you can easily get slides made from digital > >> files. > >> > > > >> > > BK From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 21 18:49:18 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 21 18:33:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Holy Cow, Batman! Uranium as part of a life cycle! References: <20061020114135.38693.qmail@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <453ACA47.E7A@Tomaszewski.net> J. R. Hodel wrote: > > Well, just when you think you've heard it all, along comes some scientist to prove you were so wrong! > > http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/4229.html > > Microbes living 2.5 Km below the Earth's surface, and uranium forms part of their lifecycle! > > Check this out! > > JR JR, I thought it was safe to go tent camping with the family in the middle of the National Forest in Michigan for three days. I get back home and find the Earth has changed forever. But some things don't change. We took the rock collecting bag with us for the trip. BTW, the trip netted a bit of brilliant white quartzite for tumbling, and some flow banded granite for the landscaping. Thanks for sharing! Kreigh From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sat Oct 21 18:42:10 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Oct 21 18:42:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] fluorite slides wanted In-Reply-To: <453AB41C.26D4@Tomaszewski.net> References: <001701c6f3b0$064e0d50$6400a8c0@Junior> <453AB41C.26D4@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061021153418.03e685b0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Tim, Kreigh is right (he usually is). Powerpoint presentations are becoming so common that you may be able to find the equipment at a public library, university, or school resource center that you can borrow at no charge, or a small refundable damage deposit, for a legitimate non-profit organization like your club. Aloha, Kitty At 02:14 PM 10/21/2006, you wrote: >Tim, > >A rental was suggested. You should be able to find one for under >$50/day. Powerpoint software is preferred, but you could use Word. You >already have a computer. > >BTW, you can probably plug your computer into a VCR, which can plug into >a TV, and eliminate the need for the digital projector. We've had >several presentations at our club using a computer and a TV. > >Kreigh From bg at his.com Sun Oct 22 17:31:43 2006 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Sun Oct 22 17:31:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] carol bova Message-ID: carol's e-mail bounced. does anyone have a new one? thanks, cathy From pjmodreski at att.net Sun Oct 22 18:26:56 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sun Oct 22 18:27:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Academy of Natural Sciences selling its collection Message-ID: <102320060126.29873.453C1A5F00097A0C000074B1216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi to the List, Others will I'm sure have seen this same news story, which I saw on an att worldnet/AP science news home page. Headlined, Philly Museum to Sell Minerals, Gems (the story is at:) http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=061022&cat=science&st=scienced8ktr5f80&src=ap The story begins, "Trustees of the cash-strapped Academy of Natural Sciences are selling more than 15,000 minerals and gems that haven't been cleaned or displayed for decades in a deal estimated to be worth several million dollars." News of this proposal has been circulating in mineralogical circles for the past year or two, with a lot of concern that this institution, which hold some famous old mineral collections, had not the funds or the interest to care for them and was going to be disposing of them; so, I see it's now in the process of happening. I notice that the Acaemy's web site, http://www.ansp.org/ , describes the Philadephia Academy as "...Our scientists study evolution, biodiversity and ecology, providing information critical to understanding the natural world. These efforts are supported by a collection of 17 million biological specimens and a celebrated natural-history library." So obviously, they have decided to restrict that museum to biological matters, and drop the minerals from their natural history collections and displays. The Academy does have good fossil displays including a Dinosaur Hall, and many famous paleontological specimens. I have mixed feelings about such a museum getting rid of its minerals. It's a shame, but at least one can say that the mineral specimens are going to be "recycled" by being sold to a dealer and then ultimately to collectors, or perhaps some to other institutions if any are interested. Pete Modreski --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Oct 22 20:31:06 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Oct 22 20:38:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] This Weekend / FoM Symposium, So. California, in Joshua Tree Message-ID: <001501c6f653$adef56e0$00f9f604@TheBlackAdder> Mines and Minerals Near Joshua Tree National Park October 28, 2006 Followed by a field trip in the Joshua Tree Area on Sunday, October 29 $5.00, Saturday Lectures & Field Trip $5.00, Sunday Field Trip Sponsored By Friends of Mineralogy (Southern California Chapter) & Copper Mountain College Copper Mountain Community College 6162 Rotary Way Joshua Tree, CA 92252 CMC Tel: 760.366.3791 x0266 (Bruce Bridenbecker) Cell contact if lost: 619.244.0757 (Doug Peeler) Take Interstate 10 Past Whitewater to Highway 62, then northeast approximately 35 miles on Hwy 62 to the Town of Joshua Tree. East of Joshua Tree on Highway 62 is Sunfair Road. Continue two miles to Rotary Way, Turn North (Left). Turn left at 6162 Rotary Way, which intersects with the Highway 62 and is about seven minutes east of the town of Joshua Tree. Follow the signs to: Room CMC 5, Phase 1 (upper level) Saturday Symposium & Field Trip 9:00 AM Registration for Symposium and Field Trip Coffee and snacks available 9:45 Welcome, Bob Reynolds, President, SCFM 9:50 History of Copper Mountain College and staff personal interests, Dr. Bruce Bridenbecker 10:00 Regional Geology and Ore Body Emplacement of the Joshua Tree Area Mineral Deposits Bruce Bridenbecker, Professor of Earth & Physical Science, Copper Mountain College 11:00 Southern California Volcanism Molly McCanta, Professor of Geology, Pomona College 12:00 - 1:00 PM Lunch Break - Lunch Tables Available Lunch Meeting - SCFM meeting 1:00 Origin of Spheroidal Granitic Landforms at Joshua Tree Robert E. Reynolds, LSA Associates, Inc. 2:00 Fieldtrip Introduction: Mining History and Localities in the Dale District Jim Worff, Mining Consultant 3:00 Silent Mineral Auction, Please bring mineral specimens for auction. 3:30 Afternoon fieldtrip led by Bruce Bridenbecker to the porphyritic granites and pegmatites at Rattlesnake Canyon/Indian Cove Camp Ground. Sunday Field Trip Information 9:00 a.m. Meet at the ranger station at Joshua Tree National Park north gate and consolidate into 4WD vehicles. 9:30 a.m. Head down Gold Crown Road to the Gold Crown Mine Lunch in the field. Work our way back toward the Park 12:30 p.m. Arrive at the Virginia Dale Mine. 3:30 p.m. Leave for home. The Virginia Dale Mine is situated close to the Park access road so people who want to leave early will find it easy to get back into the Park and leave for home. Please note: None of these mines are accessible without 4WD. Please Arrange Car Pooling in advance by calling or emailing Doug or Jennifer stating "Need Ride" or "Have Room." There will be a $15 per car NPS entrance fee per vehicle for this field trip. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From magnet at crocoite.com Mon Oct 23 04:04:00 2006 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Mon Oct 23 04:04:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Academy of Natural Sciences selling its collection Message-ID: <20061023110400.26164.qmail@webmachine101.com> As you say, Pete, a shame. I wonder how people feel that donate specimens, or whole collections, to such institutions, believing that they will be retained in some way for future generations. I know that there are no guarantees, but... Regards Steve From buff1 at ptd.net Mon Oct 23 04:54:46 2006 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Mon Oct 23 04:54:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Academy of Natural Sciences selling its collection In-Reply-To: <102320060126.29873.453C1A5F00097A0C000074B1216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <102320060126.29873.453C1A5F00097A0C000074B1216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <453CAD86.7040102@ptd.net> pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >Hi to the List, > >Others will I'm sure have seen this same news story, which I saw on an att worldnet/AP science news home page. Headlined, > >Philly Museum to Sell Minerals, Gems (the story is at:) > >http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=061022&cat=science&st=scienced8ktr5f80&src=ap > >The story begins, >"Trustees of the cash-strapped Academy of Natural Sciences are selling more than 15,000 minerals and gems that haven't been cleaned or displayed for decades in a deal estimated to be worth several million dollars." > >News of this proposal has been circulating in mineralogical circles for the past year or two, with a lot of concern that this institution, which hold some famous old mineral collections, had not the funds or the interest to care for them and was going to be disposing of them; so, I see it's now in the process of happening. > > > While it could be easily argued that it is in the best interests for the preservation of the collections and specimens, wouldn't it be nice to think that just once the general public would not be excluded from this league of "collectors/dealers" and actually be able to possess just a piece of the dream?? Yea; I'll get over it......... Dennis Buffenmyer From Lapidry at aol.com Mon Oct 23 05:07:02 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 23 05:07:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Academy of Natural Sciences selling its collection Message-ID: In a message dated 10/23/2006 7:05:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, magnet@crocoite.com writes: As you say, Pete, a shame. I wonder how people feel that donate specimens, or whole collections, to such institutions, believing that they will be retained in some way for future generations. I know that there are no guarantees, but... Regards Steve You just hit on why I would have a hard time donating anything to a museum. Too much material is either sold immediately as surplus, or stored in a basement somewhere for decades, then either sold or discarded. Even prize specimens that go on display after big money-raising campaigns to buy them can be taken off display when the direction of the museum changes and they need the space for "something more important." I know, under-staffed, under-funded and outvoted. It's a real shame since families are rarely knowledgeable enough to dispose of a collection and often end up selling it to someone for a fraction of what it's really worth, even at "dealer prices." I know I've bought collections where I've been very up-front and told the people where they could get more than I was willing to pay and they go ahead and push for me to buy it just to get it out of their hair. Dan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net Mon Oct 23 05:38:14 2006 From: Kenny.Gay at ncmail.net (Kenny Gay) Date: Mon Oct 23 05:38:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals Message-ID: <453CB7B6.1060502@ncmail.net> List Does anyone know who or when or how the specimens are going to be sold? Will there be a catalogue? I'm desperately seeking North Carolina "oldies" Kenny From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Oct 23 05:41:39 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Oct 23 05:41:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Academy of Natural Sciences selling its collection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually this issue is sort of being litigated right now, some people who made donations to universities placed restrictions on the donations and when the restrictions were violated they demanded their donation back. So I suppose you could doante a specimin with a restriction that it must be on public display for 6 months out of every 2 years and cannot be sold or it must be returned. Of course the museum might refuse to accept it with restrictions but that will give you a clue of their intentions BK On 10/23/06, Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 10/23/2006 7:05:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > magnet@crocoite.com writes: > > As you say, Pete, a shame. I wonder how people feel that donate > specimens, > or whole collections, to such institutions, believing that they will be > retained in some way for future generations. I know that there are no > guarantees, > but... > > Regards > Steve > > > You just hit on why I would have a hard time donating anything to a > museum. > Too much material is either sold immediately as surplus, or stored in a > basement somewhere for decades, then either sold or discarded. Even prize > specimens > that go on display after big money-raising campaigns to buy them can be > taken off display when the direction of the museum changes and they need > the > space for "something more important." I know, under-staffed, under-funded > and > outvoted. It's a real shame since families are rarely knowledgeable enough > to > dispose of a collection and often end up selling it to someone for a > fraction > of what it's really worth, even at "dealer prices." I know I've bought > collections where I've been very up-front and told the people where they > could get > more than I was willing to pay and they go ahead and push for me to buy > it > just to get it out of their hair. > > Dan > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Mon Oct 23 05:57:22 2006 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Mon Oct 23 05:57:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals Message-ID: <53f.4e628886.326e1632@aol.com> Since it sounded like the collection was being sold as a unit to one dealer (not named in the news story, but I assume this would eventually be made public), I assume it will be up to that dealer how and when he puts the specimens up for sale. I'm sure there would be many people eager to acquire some of the collection's "classic" old specimens. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From stu at arcrystalmine.com Mon Oct 23 06:18:57 2006 From: stu at arcrystalmine.com (Stu Schmitt) Date: Mon Oct 23 06:19:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Jeffrey Quarry Solution Quartz - Info & AD References: <100520061316.1267.452505C6000D2298000004F3215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <005b01c6f6a5$cc19fdd0$6500a8c0@STU2> I just finished a web page with history and mineral information about Jeffery Quarry Solution Quartz, Cookeite and Rectorite. The Quarry was sold this year (2006) to some developers that are going to build houses around the two lakes (flooded Quarries). The web page also has a few of the Solution Quartz crystals for sale from a 40 year old collection. http://www.arcrystalmine.com/jqsq/jqsq.html With appreciation & gratitude, Stuart Schmitt Clear Creek Crystal Mine www.arcrystalmine.com 60 Mary's Eagle Trail Mount Ida, AR 71957 (870) 867-2443 From JHODEL at wvdep.org Mon Oct 23 07:26:23 2006 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Mon Oct 23 07:26:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Philadelphia Museum news Message-ID: Hi: Here's a link to a story about the de-accession plans of the Philadelphia Museum which has been in the news lately: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20061022/D8KTR5F80.html Pretty depressing, really. I wonder who the unnamed dealer is...I'm sure it will be obvious pretty soon, when they become availablt on the market. JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Mon Oct 23 08:33:19 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (MICHAEL SCHMIDT) Date: Mon Oct 23 08:33:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Academy of Natural Sciences selling its collection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: selling specimens is bad enough...but how would you feel if your donations were simply tossed in the garbage? A few years ago, I was at a very large European museum who did exactly that. They had a new education minister and he was about to visit the museum. their collections were in such a state of disarray (hallways in basements literally impassable because of boxes and boxes of specimens lining the walls) and they didn't want to get chewed out over this. Their solution??? Toss it all in the dumpsters. I'm not talking just boxes of unidentified rocks. I am talking type specimens- a German plesiosaur skull collected in the 1800's...complete chinese cretaceous birds....PHOTOCOPIERS!!! I had 2 friends that spent 3 days dumpster diving and literally pocketed almost 100K worth of material. One of these friends even asked why they were throwing away brand new photocopiers instead of just giving them to another dept. Unfortunately, there exists no procedure to do this...so they were tossed. Very nice.... Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: J Bryan Kramer Date: Monday, October 23, 2006 6:41 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Academy of Natural Sciences selling its collection > Actually this issue is sort of being litigated right now, some > people who > made donations to universities placed restrictions on the > donations and when > the restrictions were violated they demanded their donation back. > So I > suppose you could doante a specimin with a restriction that it > must be on > public display for 6 months out of every 2 years and cannot be > sold or it > must be returned. Of course the museum might refuse to accept it with > restrictions but that will give you a clue of their intentions > > BK > > > On 10/23/06, Lapidry@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > In a message dated 10/23/2006 7:05:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > magnet@crocoite.com writes: > > > > As you say, Pete, a shame. I wonder how people feel that donate > > specimens, > > or whole collections, to such institutions, believing that they > will be > > retained in some way for future generations. I know that there > are no > > guarantees, > > but... > > > > Regards > > Steve > > > > > > You just hit on why I would have a hard time donating anything > to a > > museum. > > Too much material is either sold immediately as surplus, or > stored in a > > basement somewhere for decades, then either sold or discarded. > Even prize > > specimens > > that go on display after big money-raising campaigns to buy > them can be > > taken off display when the direction of the museum changes and > they need > > the > > space for "something more important." I know, under-staffed, > under-funded > > and > > outvoted. It's a real shame since families are rarely > knowledgeable enough > > to > > dispose of a collection and often end up selling it to someone > for a > > fraction > > of what it's really worth, even at "dealer prices." I know I've > bought> collections where I've been very up-front and told the > people where they > > could get > > more than I was willing to pay and they go ahead and push for > me to buy > > it > > just to get it out of their hair. > > > > Dan > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 23 15:39:34 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 23 15:37:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals References: <453CB7B6.1060502@ncmail.net> Message-ID: <453D4435.2FCA@Tomaszewski.net> Kenny Gay wrote: > > List > Does anyone know who or when or how the specimens are going to be sold? > Will there be a catalogue? > I'm desperately seeking North Carolina "oldies" > Kenny My local paper carried the story in today's edition on the back of the first section. I found the AP story online at http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/10061022/ao_on_sc/minerals_for_sale but it is missing many details, like how to get in on the sale. Kreigh From gene at fossilnut.com Mon Oct 23 15:43:17 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Mon Oct 23 15:43:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals References: <53f.4e628886.326e1632@aol.com> Message-ID: <008d01c6f6f4$a33720b0$6400a8c0@hppav> I got the same thing out of the wording... one.. dealer. Furthermore it sounds like the approval was for the specific deal since it has been known for some time that the Academy intended to sell the minerals. Now I'm wondering who has that many millions of dollars to put down on a huge collection. I suspect 90% of the value is in 10% of the specimens so it will be interesting to see if smaller parcels don't get resold to other dealers after the absolute high end is spoken for. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals > Since it sounded like the collection was being sold as a unit to one > dealer > (not named in the news story, but I assume this would eventually be made > public), I assume it will be up to that dealer how and when he puts the > specimens > up for sale. I'm sure there would be many people eager to acquire some > of > the collection's "classic" old specimens. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From gene at fossilnut.com Mon Oct 23 15:55:38 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Mon Oct 23 15:55:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Academy of Natural Sciences selling its collection References: Message-ID: <00b501c6f6f6$5d1a9a10$6400a8c0@hppav> Not too many years ago the Academy trashed a dumpster full of old monographs. Most were bound, but without covers, and were printings from the 1800's,, from the greats like Leidy. Mind you these were printed items, not original manuscripts. Still the works surely could have been sold, if for nothing else than the original lithographs they contained. I have about a dozen of the lithographs framed and on my walls. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "MICHAEL SCHMIDT" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Academy of Natural Sciences selling its collection > > selling specimens is bad enough...but how would you feel if your donations > were simply tossed in the garbage? > > A few years ago, I was at a very large European museum who did exactly > that. They had a new education minister and he was about to visit the > museum. their collections were in such a state of disarray (hallways in > basements literally impassable because of boxes and boxes of fossil> specimens lining the walls) and they didn't want to get chewed out > over this. > > Their solution??? Toss it all in the dumpsters. I'm not talking just > boxes of unidentified rocks. I am talking type specimens- a German > plesiosaur skull collected in the 1800's...complete chinese cretaceous > birds....PHOTOCOPIERS!!! I had 2 friends that spent 3 days dumpster > diving and literally pocketed almost 100K worth of material. > > One of these friends even asked why they were throwing away brand new > photocopiers instead of just giving them to another dept. Unfortunately, > there exists no procedure to do this...so they were tossed. > > Very nice.... > > Michael > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: J Bryan Kramer > Date: Monday, October 23, 2006 6:41 am > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Academy of Natural Sciences selling its > collection > >> Actually this issue is sort of being litigated right now, some >> people who >> made donations to universities placed restrictions on the >> donations and when >> the restrictions were violated they demanded their donation back. >> So I >> suppose you could doante a specimin with a restriction that it >> must be on >> public display for 6 months out of every 2 years and cannot be >> sold or it >> must be returned. Of course the museum might refuse to accept it with >> restrictions but that will give you a clue of their intentions >> >> BK >> >> >> On 10/23/06, Lapidry@aol.com wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > In a message dated 10/23/2006 7:05:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> > magnet@crocoite.com writes: >> > >> > As you say, Pete, a shame. I wonder how people feel that donate >> > specimens, >> > or whole collections, to such institutions, believing that they >> will be >> > retained in some way for future generations. I know that there >> are no >> > guarantees, >> > but... >> > >> > Regards >> > Steve >> > >> > >> > You just hit on why I would have a hard time donating anything >> to a >> > museum. >> > Too much material is either sold immediately as surplus, or >> stored in a >> > basement somewhere for decades, then either sold or discarded. >> Even prize >> > specimens >> > that go on display after big money-raising campaigns to buy >> them can be >> > taken off display when the direction of the museum changes and >> they need >> > the >> > space for "something more important." I know, under-staffed, >> under-funded >> > and >> > outvoted. It's a real shame since families are rarely >> knowledgeable enough >> > to >> > dispose of a collection and often end up selling it to someone >> for a >> > fraction >> > of what it's really worth, even at "dealer prices." I know I've >> bought> collections where I've been very up-front and told the >> people where they >> > could get >> > more than I was willing to pay and they go ahead and push for >> me to buy >> > it >> > just to get it out of their hair. >> > >> > Dan >> > >> > >> > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > multipart/alternative >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > text/html >> > --- >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> J Bryan Kramer >> photos at: >> http://pbase.com/photoburner >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Oct 23 16:18:42 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Oct 23 16:16:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals References: <453CB7B6.1060502@ncmail.net> <453D4435.2FCA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <453D4D5B.1C9F@Tomaszewski.net> I found a more complete story about the sale (but the dealer is not identified) http://news.pajamasmedia.com/entertainment/2006/10/22/11517986_Museum_will_sell.shtml Kreigh Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Kenny Gay wrote: > > > > List > > Does anyone know who or when or how the specimens are going to be sold? > > Will there be a catalogue? > > I'm desperately seeking North Carolina "oldies" > > Kenny > > My local paper carried the story in today's edition on the back of the > first section. I found the AP story online at > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/10061022/ao_on_sc/minerals_for_sale > > but it is missing many details, like how to get in on the sale. > > Kreigh From efkern at earthlink.net Mon Oct 23 16:44:43 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Mon Oct 23 16:44:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Philadelphia ANS to Sell 15, 000 Minerals & Gems in Donated Collection Message-ID: <001101c6f6fd$37a9ee00$d4fcf604@TheBlackAdder> Story Date: 2006-Oct-22 at 03:40:22 By Tom Avril Museum will sell a dusty legacy: The Academy of Natural Sciences' donated mineral stashes are worth millions. Not everyone is happy Oct. 22, 2006 (McClatchy-Tribune Business News delivered by Newstex) -- As Philadelphia welcomes 6,000 geologists for their annual convention today, here's an ironic coincidence: The city's natural-history museum is abandoning the rocks-and-minerals business. Trustees of the cash-strapped Academy of Natural Sciences voted Tuesday to sell more than 15,000 minerals and gems that hadn't been cleaned or displayed for decades. Workers then began boxing up specimens for an unnamed private dealer, acting academy president Ian Davison said. "To me, it's a very sad day when this kind of thing happens," said Stephen G. Wells, president of the Geological Society of America, which will meet through Wednesday at the Convention Center. Orphans Court Judge Joseph D. O'Keefe cleared the move this month with the consent of the state Attorney General's Office. The sale price was not disclosed, but the items form the bulk of a collection with an estimated value of several million dollars. The academy must return to court for permission to sell its remaining 7,000-odd pieces -- including silver, gold, diamonds and everyday quartz -- because William S. Vaux, who donated them 123 years ago, requested that they never be sold. The items represent a bit of old Philadelphia, when gentlemen amateurs went off collecting in exotic locales and sometimes bestowed their finds on public institutions. These legacies can present a quandary when museums change their missions and face dwindling resources; witness the turmoil over moving the famous Barnes art collection to the Benjamin Franklin Parkway. No one disputes that the academy, having suffered through staff cuts and a string of deficits, can use the money. The proceeds will go to its endowment to support its library. Given that some of the minerals will end up with other museums, some say they are better off being sold and seen than locked up at the red-brick facility on Logan Circle. Yet the move has drawn fire inside and out of the world-renowned, 194-year-old institution, home to 17 million fossil, plant and animal specimens. Two employees who oppose the sale said Davison had told the staff not to talk to reporters. Davison said he had done that because most staffers did not know all the facts and had never seen the collection, which has been shut in a vault for most of the last half-century. Some specimens are crumbling and will have to be thrown out, he said. "Staff who are unhappy about something, complaining about something, and potentially disseminating inaccurate information are not going to help an institution like the academy," Davison said. Opponents outside the museum include Trina Vaux, great-great-niece of the man who donated the items that still require approval before a sale. "I think the entire collection represents a really important part of Philadelphia's heritage," said Vaux, who lives in Bryn Mawr. "This is really the cradle of American mineralogy." Maria Luisa Crawford, a research professor of geology at Bryn Mawr College, said it might be reasonable for the academy to sell the collection because it had no one on staff to study and care for it. According to a court petition filed by academy attorneys, there has been no mineral lab or curator since the 1950s, except when a grant was used to hire one from 1976 to 1981. The problem, Crawford said, is that the collection might be broken up. "Many of the pieces may be bought by individual collections and therefore disappear" from public view, she said. Davison said the academy had tried to find another museum to buy the entire collection. That effort began five years ago when the board opted not to maintain a collection not tied to active research. The buyer of the non-Vaux pieces represents a consortium of "private parties," Davison said, but has agreed to offer selections of local minerals to museums in Pennsylvania, New Jersey and New York. The agreement of sale also requires that the small number of samples of special scientific significance be given to another research institution, he said. There are perhaps a dozen of these so-called "type" specimens, used as the standard by which other samples can be identified. Some say the proceedings have been handled badly. John S. White, a former curator of minerals and gems at the Smithsonian Institution, accuses the academy of allowing a conflict of interest. An agent who tried to sell the collection was also involved in appraising it, White wrote in a letter to former academy president D. James Baker. Davison said that agent had not been involved in the eventual sale, and there was no conflict. A local expert on nonprofits said the academy still should have considered hiring someone else. "To me, arm's length is arm's length in this business," said Nancy Burd, vice president for grant-making at the nonprofit Philadelphia Foundation. "Just try to stay as clean as possible." In Orphans' Court, O'Keefe approved the academy's determination that there were no restrictions on the non-Vaux items. And while an 1883 agreement with the family directs that the Vaux items never be sold or broken up, judges sometimes allow bequests to be altered, as evidenced by the Barnes case, said Virginia Sikes, a lawyer in the Philadelphia office of Montgomery, McCracken, Walker & Rhoads. There is a public interest in encouraging people to make museum donations, but there can also be a public interest in allowing changes in wills when circumstances dictate it, she said: "Maybe courts are more willing when many, many years have lapsed." Contact staff writer Tom Avril at 215-854-2430 or tavril@phillynews.com. Inquirer staff writer Sandy Bauers contributed to this article. Copyright (c) 2006, The Philadelphia Inquirer Distributed by McClatchy-Tribune Business News. For reprints, email tmsreprints@permissionsgroup.com, call 800-374-7985 or 847-635-6550, send a fax to 847-635-6968, or write to The Permissions Group Inc., 1247 Milwaukee Ave., Suite 303, Glenview, IL 60025, USA. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright ? 2006 Pajamas Media Inc. All Rights Reserved From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Oct 23 16:50:00 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Oct 23 16:50:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Philadelphia ANS to Sell 15, 000 Minerals & Gems in Donated Collection In-Reply-To: <001101c6f6fd$37a9ee00$d4fcf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <001101c6f6fd$37a9ee00$d4fcf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: Not to insult anyone from Philli but secret buyer, secret price, and secret appraisal sounds like corruption to me. And Philli is known for corrupt practices unfortunately, like a lot of other cities. I can't believe that they wouldn't have made a lot more money if the collection was sold at open public auction, with a catalog and a well known auction house managing the process. Sothebys or somesuch. BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Oct 23 17:01:56 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Oct 23 17:02:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] ANS selling its collection (what should you do?) References: <102320060126.29873.453C1A5F00097A0C000074B1216046664807059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <005301c6f6ff$9f1ba400$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> The American Association of Museums had an article in their last magazine about how museums are allowed to raise money. Selling collections for cash was one of only two listed as "No No's!" I have not read the newspaper articles, but have seen, read or heard nothing about the ANS being in a dire financial situation. As far as I can tell, it is strictly because the collections have no relevance to their mission which was no doubt changed. Was the decision to change the mission to make the sale more agreeable to their fellow museums? I don't know. It is incumbent for all collectors thinking about donating specimens to any museum to do some research. Never assume a museum will take your collection -- either in one piece or even high-graded. The more restrictions you place on the donation, the less likely the collection will be accepted. That assumes the curator is ethical, although most of the larger museums have committees to approve or decline any donations. The curator can make a recommendation to the committee, but not make the final decision alone. As you would expect, the curator's recommendation would have a lot of weight because of the perceived expertise by others on the committee (which may include the director, an educator, board member, etc.). To expect any geological specimen to remain in a museum forever is unrealistic, although type specimens will usually find their way into museums that focus on their curation. (I am speaking for U.S. museums here.) For instance, one would expect the "Alma Queen" to remain in the Denver Museum's collections forever, but 100 years from now a curator might accidentally drop it upside down on the floor! Stuff happens! Talk to the curator about any future donation. They tend to last longer in a particular institution than a director (though talking to the director isn't a bad idea either). Earlier this year I made an effort to donate my personal collection of about 600 catalogued sedimentary, igneous and metamorphic rocks (with locality and stratigraphic data) to a museum. The only condition - they had to take the entire collection. They could take some for their permanent collection and give the rest to the education department. I didn't want to have to deal with breaking up the collection at the house and spending a lot of time finding "homes" for individual specimens. A state museum was interested in a dozen specimens and didn't want the rest (even for education purposes). I declined. A large city museum was interested, but was in the process of redefining their collections policy for accreditation purposes, so they declined. A children's museum accepted the collection. The accessioned about 20 specimens and will give the rest to a college geology department. No problem! I've also donated (with help from two professional paleontologists) about 80 crinoids to the U.S. National Museum. Most of those were exceptional specimens documented in a journal article with nine holotypes and assorted paratypes or "best known species." Consider donations of non-display-quality minerals to geological surveys for research. I've donated hundreds of specimens to the Kentucky Geological Survey. While some surveys may not collect specimens from their own state, I suspect most do. Many localities no longer exist and minerals are found in private collections. Other localities produced a small number of specimens that might be a good MS or PhD thesis project in the future. Museums have to missions - preserve collections and preserve their institution. Find out how good they are at both before donating a collection if you are really concerned about what happens to it in five or fifty years. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:26 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Academy of Natural Sciences selling its collection > Hi to the List, > > Others will I'm sure have seen this same news story, which I saw on an att > worldnet/AP science news home page. Headlined, > > Philly Museum to Sell Minerals, Gems (the story is at:) > > http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pub&dt=061022&cat=science&st=scienced8ktr5f80&src=ap > > The story begins, > "Trustees of the cash-strapped Academy of Natural Sciences are selling > more than 15,000 minerals and gems that haven't been cleaned or displayed > for decades in a deal estimated to be worth several million dollars." > > News of this proposal has been circulating in mineralogical circles for > the past year or two, with a lot of concern that this institution, which > hold some famous old mineral collections, had not the funds or the > interest to care for them and was going to be disposing of them; so, I see > it's now in the process of happening. > > I notice that the Acaemy's web site, http://www.ansp.org/ , describes the > Philadephia Academy as > > "...Our scientists study evolution, biodiversity and ecology, providing > information critical to understanding the natural world. These efforts are > supported by a collection of 17 million biological specimens and a > celebrated natural-history library." > > So obviously, they have decided to restrict that museum to biological > matters, and drop the minerals from their natural history collections and > displays. The Academy does have good fossil displays including a Dinosaur > Hall, and many famous paleontological specimens. > > I have mixed feelings about such a museum getting rid of its minerals. > It's a shame, but at least one can say that the mineral specimens are > going to be "recycled" by being sold to a dealer and then ultimately to > collectors, or perhaps some to other institutions if any are interested. > > Pete Modreski > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tangojuli at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 19:01:11 2006 From: tangojuli at yahoo.com (tango juli) Date: Mon Oct 23 19:01:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] collections, museums and education In-Reply-To: <200610240102.k9O12dXi008336@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20061024020111.23884.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> Alan G and others thanks for the thoughtful response and suggestions for an alternative to museums. I remember hearing about the philly academy quandry last year on this list. It was to me a little surprising to hear all the details and as someone here remarked--secret buyer, secret price...etc..it doesn't inspire confidence, does it? With a great deal of sympathy for the purported predicament they were in, I still think this collection should have found its way to another museum or a series of other museums to keep with the donors' intents. It will be interesting to see how many in the community will rethink their decisions to donate in the future. Alan's suggestions have a lot of merit. I wasn't overly interested in fossils until I went out to the hwy 1 rdcut in eastern indiana near Cincinnati (you can't turn around without finding a collectable out there). But what really stoked my interest was seeing a great display of a certain type of brachiopod from that same formation down at the Indiana University School of Geology/Indy Geological Survey (same building). It focused on the ecological changes evident in shell growth. I collected about 4 flats of the material after that and remain interested in that formation and fossils in general. On the other hand, when I found an actinocerus (sp) from the same location and went to get an ID on it, no one in that department "did" that period (ordovician) most being Pleistocene apparently. Which leaves one to wonder where that brachiopod exhibit came from...donation? smile. Having nice mineral displays at schools and colleges would certainly be a laudable way to promote the interest of the next generations and perhaps better than museums--seems like you might reach as many people. If you aren't interested in something, you aren't going to go to a museum to see it, are you? See it as part of the landscape--as in a school or a mall, etc, and you expose a lot more people to this stuff. As environmental concerns clash with industrial mining more and more, expanding well-structured mineral/rock displays might serve a dual purpose. Thanks, tina t --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From turnea55 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 23 20:00:17 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Mon Oct 23 20:00:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals In-Reply-To: <008d01c6f6f4$a33720b0$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: This is pathetically stupid on so many accounts. It amazes me how dumb some of these intellectual museum curators and directors actually are. I've heard it several times about how natural history museums try to make things more 'interactive" and "kid friendly." That's great and all, but but they just rick becomming another kids' museum full of nearly nothing of significance or importance. Furthermore, the mineral collection is nearl always the most visited part of a natural history museum. It is the reason that Smithsonian (natural history museum) is the most visited museum in the US. I've been to most major nat. history museums in the country (Smithsonian, Harvard, LA, etc)..in every case the most people (including kids) could be seen in the mineral section. If you added all of the biology, interactive, marine, native people's, etc. exhibits, it often does not equal the crowd you see in the mineral sections (in LA, you often can barely walk into the gold and gems exhibit as they are so crowded). This can easily be seen all around the country. Particularly, several years back, the science center/nat. history museum in St. Louis got rid of all their minerals in order to make more interactive exhibits that would attract more families. When I was there last time, it was nearly empty and the envirornmental/pollution exhibit where the minerals once stood was completely vacant. Numerous minerals from the former Missouri Bureau of Mines were put in wet caves for storage, only to decompose and have the labels fade away. The Field Museum in Chicago decided to de-emphasize minerals many years back..now they have a few cases of mid-grade material only. Finally, I went to the American Museum in NY last year(where I had applied to be curator), only to find out the mineral exhibit was closed in order to store boxes for another exhibit. Numerous people were really angry and actually walked out of the museum once hearing this. I have a bad feeling about this collection being sold to a single dealer. I have a bad feeling it will be sold to one of the "high-end" dealers where all the minerals will be sold for 5-10+ times what the dealer paid. Mid grade minerals would then be stored for several years, only to sell them for even higher prices. As witnessed in Tucson, the mineral business has seemed to get much worse where few can afford even decent pieces and $5 pieces are marked at over $100. I just found a piece of halite from Trona, CA offered by one of these dealers who claimed it he got it from a friend who was the only source of this material and that he couldn't get it anymore..it sold for $150 (about a $20 piece max). Bring back the Rocksmiths. Anyway, that's my rant. >From: "EUGENE HARTSTEIN" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals >Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:43:17 -0400 > >I got the same thing out of the wording... one.. dealer. Furthermore it >sounds like the approval was for the specific deal since it has been known >for some time that the Academy intended to sell the minerals. Now I'm >wondering who has that many millions of dollars to put down on a huge >collection. > >I suspect 90% of the value is in 10% of the specimens so it will be >interesting to see if smaller parcels don't get resold to other dealers >after the absolute high end is spoken for. > >Gene Hartstein > >----- Original Message ----- From: >To: >Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:57 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals > > >>Since it sounded like the collection was being sold as a unit to one >>dealer >>(not named in the news story, but I assume this would eventually be made >>public), I assume it will be up to that dealer how and when he puts the >>specimens >>up for sale. I'm sure there would be many people eager to acquire some >>of >>the collection's "classic" old specimens. >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From efkern at earthlink.net Mon Oct 23 20:37:21 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Mon Oct 23 20:37:31 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals References: Message-ID: <001901c6f71d$b8d13b30$8dfff604@TheBlackAdder> Andrew, Thanks for your passionate rant on this subject, and I agree 100%. At the Fallbrook club, FGMS, our "children's museum" as it used to be called, is all minerals and the kids Ooohh and Ahhh all over the place. Same with our fluorescent display. When I volunteer as docent, I take them into the fluorescent display room, turn on the overhead lights and say, "here you have a bunch of ordinary looking rocks". Then turn on the UV lights and the overhead lights off, and listen to their excitement. I would add to your rant that we're dealing with elitists who really believe everything has to be dumbed down to appeal to kids and the public. That hasn't been my experience. It seems they want to entertain the public rather than stimulate their intellect and imagination. Probably goes with the "learning should be FUN" mentality. Cheers, Erich Kern Murrieta ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Turner" To: Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals This is pathetically stupid on so many accounts. It amazes me how dumb some of these intellectual museum curators and directors actually are. I've heard it several times about how natural history museums try to make things more 'interactive" and "kid friendly." That's great and all, but but they just rick becomming another kids' museum full of nearly nothing of significance or importance. Furthermore, the mineral collection is nearl always the most visited part of a natural history museum. It is the reason that Smithsonian (natural history museum) is the most visited museum in the US. I've been to most major nat. history museums in the country (Smithsonian, Harvard, LA, etc)..in every case the most people (including kids) could be seen in the mineral section. If you added all of the biology, interactive, marine, native people's, etc. exhibits, it often does not equal the crowd you see in the mineral sections (in LA, you often can barely walk into the gold and gems exhibit as they are so crowded). This can easily be seen all around the country. Particularly, several years back, the science center/nat. history museum in St. Louis got rid of all their minerals in order to make more interactive exhibits that would attract more families. When I was there last time, it was nearly empty and the envirornmental/pollution exhibit where the minerals once stood was completely vacant. Numerous minerals from the former Missouri Bureau of Mines were put in wet caves for storage, only to decompose and have the labels fade away. The Field Museum in Chicago decided to de-emphasize minerals many years back..now they have a few cases of mid-grade material only. Finally, I went to the American Museum in NY last year(where I had applied to be curator), only to find out the mineral exhibit was closed in order to store boxes for another exhibit. Numerous people were really angry and actually walked out of the museum once hearing this. I have a bad feeling about this collection being sold to a single dealer. I have a bad feeling it will be sold to one of the "high-end" dealers where all the minerals will be sold for 5-10+ times what the dealer paid. Mid grade minerals would then be stored for several years, only to sell them for even higher prices. As witnessed in Tucson, the mineral business has seemed to get much worse where few can afford even decent pieces and $5 pieces are marked at over $100. I just found a piece of halite from Trona, CA offered by one of these dealers who claimed it he got it from a friend who was the only source of this material and that he couldn't get it anymore..it sold for $150 (about a $20 piece max). Bring back the Rocksmiths. Anyway, that's my rant. >From: "EUGENE HARTSTEIN" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals >Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:43:17 -0400 > >I got the same thing out of the wording... one.. dealer. Furthermore it >sounds like the approval was for the specific deal since it has been known >for some time that the Academy intended to sell the minerals. Now I'm >wondering who has that many millions of dollars to put down on a huge >collection. > >I suspect 90% of the value is in 10% of the specimens so it will be >interesting to see if smaller parcels don't get resold to other dealers >after the absolute high end is spoken for. > >Gene Hartstein > >----- Original Message ----- From: >To: >Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:57 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals > > >>Since it sounded like the collection was being sold as a unit to one >>dealer >>(not named in the news story, but I assume this would eventually be made >>public), I assume it will be up to that dealer how and when he puts the >>specimens >>up for sale. I'm sure there would be many people eager to acquire some >>of >>the collection's "classic" old specimens. >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 24 06:31:14 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Oct 24 06:31:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Prices References: Message-ID: <002601c6f770$b012d5a0$d6802b4b@LarryRush> Subject: High Dealer Prices Andrew, and list; I agree about the high prices most dealers charge, in relation to what they paid for the specimens. Most dealers will disagree with me, citing the numerous costs of buying, boxing, hauling, booth charges, hotels, etc., etc. My experience has been a bit different, but then, I don't have to make my living doing this. It seems that at every mineral show I've gone to, there are always people carping about high prices. I've been guilty of this, myself, but then, I'm old enough to remember when prices were a third of today's, and I too disremember how inflation is always insidiously working away. For those collectors who want to pay lower prices, here's an opportunity to try something where you can pay lower prices. I'm willing to offer, for Rockhound group members only, a trial for the next two weeks (ending Nov.5). You pick any piece from my site that is priced under $50, and pay me whatever you think it is worth to you, plus postage. I'll accept your judgment, and no recriminations of any kind. (This is not entirely altruistic...I get to know what you think my prices should be, and it helps in future pricing.) (One requirement; you must fill out my web site survey form, anonymously) Larry Rush www.ConnRoxMinerals.com ==================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Turner" To: Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals > This is pathetically stupid on so many accounts. It amazes me how dumb > some of these intellectual museum curators and directors actually are. > I've heard it several times about how natural history museums try to make > things more 'interactive" and "kid friendly." That's great and all, but > but they just rick becomming another kids' museum full of nearly nothing > of significance or importance. Furthermore, the mineral collection is > nearl always the most visited part of a natural history museum. It is the > reason that Smithsonian (natural history museum) is the most visited > museum in the US. I've been to most major nat. history museums in the > country (Smithsonian, Harvard, LA, etc)..in every case the most people > (including kids) could be seen in the mineral section. If you added all > of the biology, interactive, marine, native people's, etc. exhibits, it > often does not equal the crowd you see in the mineral sections (in LA, you > often can barely walk into the gold and gems exhibit as they are so > crowded). > > This can easily be seen all around the country. Particularly, several > years back, the science center/nat. history museum in St. Louis got rid of > all their minerals in order to make more interactive exhibits that would > attract more families. When I was there last time, it was nearly empty > and the envirornmental/pollution exhibit where the minerals once stood was > completely vacant. Numerous minerals from the former Missouri Bureau of > Mines were put in wet caves for storage, only to decompose and have the > labels fade away. The Field Museum in Chicago decided to de-emphasize > minerals many years back..now they have a few cases of mid-grade material > only. Finally, I went to the American Museum in NY last year(where I had > applied to be curator), only to find out the mineral exhibit was closed in > order to store boxes for another exhibit. Numerous people were really > angry and actually walked out of the museum once hearing this. > > I have a bad feeling about this collection being sold to a single dealer. > I have a bad feeling it will be sold to one of the "high-end" dealers > where all the minerals will be sold for 5-10+ times what the dealer paid. > Mid grade minerals would then be stored for several years, only to sell > them for even higher prices. As witnessed in Tucson, the mineral business > has seemed to get much worse where few can afford even decent pieces and > $5 pieces are marked at over $100. I just found a piece of halite from > Trona, CA offered by one of these dealers who claimed it he got it from a > friend who was the only source of this material and that he couldn't get > it anymore..it sold for $150 (about a $20 piece max). Bring back the > Rocksmiths. Anyway, that's my rant. > > >>From: "EUGENE HARTSTEIN" >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals >>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:43:17 -0400 >> >>I got the same thing out of the wording... one.. dealer. Furthermore it >>sounds like the approval was for the specific deal since it has been known >>for some time that the Academy intended to sell the minerals. Now I'm >>wondering who has that many millions of dollars to put down on a huge >>collection. >> >>I suspect 90% of the value is in 10% of the specimens so it will be >>interesting to see if smaller parcels don't get resold to other dealers >>after the absolute high end is spoken for. >> >>Gene Hartstein >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: >>To: >>Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 8:57 AM >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Philly minerals >> >> >>>Since it sounded like the collection was being sold as a unit to one >>>dealer >>>(not named in the news story, but I assume this would eventually be made >>>public), I assume it will be up to that dealer how and when he puts the >>>specimens >>>up for sale. I'm sure there would be many people eager to acquire some >>>of >>>the collection's "classic" old specimens. >>> >>> >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>>--- >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tjokela at execulink.com Tue Oct 24 08:01:11 2006 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Tue Oct 24 08:03:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] collections, museums and education References: <20061024020111.23884.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002c01c6f77d$3eb1f320$6400a8c0@Junior> If you read the article carefully, they do say that the collection has been stored in a vault for the last fifty years or so. If that is true, well, which is better? Stuff locked in a vault, slowly decaying, or a nice big whack of old minerals hitting the market? And yes, some of those are going to be old classics with huge price tags, but the majority are going to be pretty modest, I'd suspect; interesting old stuff well under fifty bucks a pop. And these sort of deals seldom actually involve a single dealer; nobody can process that much stuff or have markets for the different qualities, it will be spread around for sure. Frankly, I suspect a great many institutions look down on serious collectors while doing bugger all with their own massive collections. It's been said that if you want to find a new dinosaur, it's easier to open and prep the decades old stuff in museum basements across the country than to look in the field. The local Children's Museum is using a dandy cabinet sized siderite from Saint-Hilaire, 2" rhombs on a 12" matrix, from the siderite cave of '66, as a doorstop! If museums are unwilling or unable to do the job of curating minerals any longer, then there are thousands of serious collectors out there that are. Putting more specimens in the hands of hardcore mineral collectors is A Good Thing. Honestly, it's nice to see something coming out of a museum, instead of just being sucked in, black hole style, to languish on shelves in the back room for all eternity. What's the percentage of collections on display at the big museums, 1% or so? The vast majority of museum holdings are behind locked doors. I saw stuff in the Smithsonian's blue room that blew my mind; paid for by the public but not available to them. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com From geo at mail.mapmuseinc.com Mon Oct 23 12:52:32 2006 From: geo at mail.mapmuseinc.com (geo@mail.mapmuseinc.com) Date: Tue Oct 24 10:11:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops and Rock Clubs across the US Message-ID: <200610231952.k9NJqWpV019557@mail.mapmuseinc.com> Hi, About 6 months ago, Mapmuse.com began a project- the interactive mapping of rock shops, and rock clubs and societies across the US. We initially researched and populated these maps ourselves, with the idea in mind that the public would subsequently add to, and enhance, the information we provided. We mapped each rock shop or club, and provided space for a written description, photo, and link to a website. Since this project was launched, rock enthusiasts have made hundreds of additions and enhancements to our maps. If you were one of these contributers, we’d like to thank you for your help! I’m writing today to ask that if you know of any rock shops or rock clubs and societies in your local community that are new or have closed in the last six months, you make those changes to the maps. Also, please feel free to add any shops or clubs that are still missing. If you own a rock shops, you may also want to consider an enhanced listing for $10/year. You can find out about these options and make changes through easy to use links on the site (if you have any problems, see http://find.mapmuse.com/re1/mmFAQ.htm#A4 ). The link to the Rock Clubs Map is as follows: http://find.mapmuse.com/re1/interest.php?brandID=ROCK_CLUBS The link for the Rock Shops Map is: http://find.mapmuse.com/re1/interest.php?brandID=ROCK_SHOPS If you have a rock related blog or website, a link or a mention would be greatly appreciated. It is through links, and improving search results that we are able to provide this service to consumers and businesses free of charge. Thanks, Cindy Jett Mapmuse.com 1326 14th Street NW Washington, DC 20005 If you wish to unsubscribe to this mailing list please click or open the following link.http://68.164.28.30/re1/emailUnsubscribe.php?id=579bedafe1a92066a5b5da26c89f914f From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Oct 24 10:34:07 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Oct 24 10:36:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops and Rock Clubsacross the US References: <200610231952.k9NJqWpV019557@mail.mapmuseinc.com> Message-ID: <006c01c6f792$a6389610$0300a8c0@Notebook> Note that Cindy is not a list member so contact her off-list. John Siebel Admin Team ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 12:52 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops and Rock Clubsacross the US > About 6 months ago, Mapmuse.com began a project- the interactive mapping > of rock shops, and rock clubs and societies across the US. > > Cindy Jett > Mapmuse.com > 1326 14th Street NW > Washington, DC 20005 From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 14:45:32 2006 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Tue Oct 24 14:45:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops and Rock Clubs across the US In-Reply-To: <200610231952.k9NJqWpV019557@mail.mapmuseinc.com> Message-ID: <20061024214532.52688.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> How do we add Rock Clubs to your site? Thanks June geo@mail.mapmuseinc.com wrote: Hi, About 6 months ago, Mapmuse.com began a project- the interactive mapping of rock shops, and rock clubs and societies across the US. We initially researched and populated these maps ourselves, with the idea in mind that the public would subsequently add to, and enhance, the information we provided. We mapped each rock shop or club, and provided space for a written description, photo, and link to a website. Since this project was launched, rock enthusiasts have made hundreds of additions and enhancements to our maps. If you were one of these contributers, we?d like to thank you for your help! I?m writing today to ask that if you know of any rock shops or rock clubs and societies in your local community that are new or have closed in the last six months, you make those changes to the maps. Also, please feel free to add any shops or clubs that are still missing. If you own a rock shops, you may also want to consider an enhanced listing for $10/year. You can find out about these options and make changes through easy to use links on the site (if you have any problems, see http://find.mapmuse.com/re1/mmFAQ.htm#A4 ). The link to the Rock Clubs Map is as follows: http://find.mapmuse.com/re1/interest.php?brandID=ROCK_CLUBS The link for the Rock Shops Map is: http://find.mapmuse.com/re1/interest.php?brandID=ROCK_SHOPS If you have a rock related blog or website, a link or a mention would be greatly appreciated. It is through links, and improving search results that we are able to provide this service to consumers and businesses free of charge. Thanks, Cindy Jett Mapmuse.com 1326 14th Street NW Washington, DC 20005 If you wish to unsubscribe to this mailing list please click or open the following link.http://68.164.28.30/re1/emailUnsubscribe.php?id=579bedafe1a92066a5b5da26c89f914f -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Cycadwood at aol.com Tue Oct 24 15:40:34 2006 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 24 15:40:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Fine Minerals of China Message-ID: <534.965846b.326ff062@aol.com> Fine Minerals of China by Guanghua Liu. A beautifully done guide to the mineral localities of China. The photography is very well done and the full 366 pages are full color. 12 by 8 1/2 inches; 1 3/8 inches thick; just under 5 pounds. $148 plus $7 postage. 4 left This book just hit the market at the Denver Show. I picked up a few extra copies to sell because it is such a well done book. $148 is the standard retail price. The photographs will make you drool. I can take Visa/MasterCard, a check, or PayPal. Frank Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com_ (mailto:publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com) 970.242.5255 cell 970.216.9641 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and Cycads and Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Oct 24 15:51:05 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Oct 24 15:49:00 2006 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops and Rock Clubsacross the US References: <200610231952.k9NJqWpV019557@mail.mapmuseinc.com> <006c01c6f792$a6389610$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <453E9856.6F8C@Tomaszewski.net> I received this yesterday in my email, complete with unsubscribe link. Since I had never subscribed, I treated it as spam. Kreigh John Siebel wrote: > > Note that Cindy is not a list member so contact her off-list. > > John Siebel > Admin Team > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 12:52 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops and Rock Clubsacross > the US > > > About 6 months ago, Mapmuse.com began a project- the interactive mapping > > of rock shops, and rock clubs and societies across the US. > > > > Cindy Jett > > Mapmuse.com > > 1326 14th Street NW > > Washington, DC 20005 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Oct 24 16:37:16 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Tue Oct 24 16:39:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops andRock Clubsacross the US References: <200610231952.k9NJqWpV019557@mail.mapmuseinc.com><006c01c6f792$a6389610$0300a8c0@Notebook> <453E9856.6F8C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004f01c6f7c5$5f9fbd40$0300a8c0@Notebook> Thanks Kreigh, This came in on a filtered non-member post along with the rest of the Viagra spam so I can't verify anything about it. List members should take that in account. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 3:51 PM Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops andRock Clubsacross the US >I received this yesterday in my email, complete with unsubscribe link. > Since I had never subscribed, I treated it as spam. > > Kreigh > > > > > John Siebel wrote: >> >> Note that Cindy is not a list member so contact her off-list. >> >> John Siebel >> Admin Team >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 12:52 PM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops and Rock >> Clubsacross >> the US >> >> > About 6 months ago, Mapmuse.com began a project- the interactive >> > mapping >> > of rock shops, and rock clubs and societies across the US. > >> >> > Cindy Jett >> > Mapmuse.com >> > 1326 14th Street NW >> > Washington, DC 20005 >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Tue Oct 24 16:49:29 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Tue Oct 24 16:42:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops andRock Clubsacross the US In-Reply-To: <004f01c6f7c5$5f9fbd40$0300a8c0@Notebook> References: <200610231952.k9NJqWpV019557@mail.mapmuseinc.com><006c01c6f792$a6389610$0300a8c0@Notebook> <453E9856.6F8C@Tomaszewski.net> <004f01c6f7c5$5f9fbd40$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <0d9e331ad868ce6a649512beed746db8@nbnet.nb.ca> It came to me also, same way. Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada ========== On 24-Oct-06, at 8:37 PM, John Siebel wrote: > Thanks Kreigh, > > This came in on a filtered non-member post along with the rest of the > Viagra spam so I can't verify anything about it. List members should > take that in account. > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 3:51 PM > Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops > andRock Clubsacross the US > > >> I received this yesterday in my email, complete with unsubscribe link. >> Since I had never subscribed, I treated it as spam. >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> >> John Siebel wrote: >>> >>> Note that Cindy is not a list member so contact her off-list. >>> >>> John Siebel >>> Admin Team >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 12:52 PM >>> Subject: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops and Rock >>> Clubsacross >>> the US >>> >>> > About 6 months ago, Mapmuse.com began a project- the interactive > >>> mapping >>> > of rock shops, and rock clubs and societies across the US. > >>> >>> > Cindy Jett >>> > Mapmuse.com >>> > 1326 14th Street NW >>> > Washington, DC 20005 >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From albalmer at att.net Tue Oct 24 17:20:53 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Oct 24 17:21:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops andRock Clubsacross the US In-Reply-To: <004f01c6f7c5$5f9fbd40$0300a8c0@Notebook> References: <200610231952.k9NJqWpV019557@mail.mapmuseinc.com><006c01c6f792$a6389610$0300a8c0@Notebook> <453E9856.6F8C@Tomaszewski.net> <004f01c6f7c5$5f9fbd40$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <39btj2l3adp4q3b9uf0f4h4ipo91spid85@4ax.com> On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:37:16 -0700, "John Siebel" wrote: >Thanks Kreigh, > >This came in on a filtered non-member post along with the rest of the Viagra >spam so I can't verify anything about it. List members should take that in >account. > It's somewhat misleading, in that there's no particular emphasis on Rock Shops. That's just one of the categories that you can filter on. The information for the Phoenix area is years out of date. At least three of the places listed don't exist, and one (Rockazona) which has been here for years, isn't listed. >John > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 3:51 PM >Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops andRock >Clubsacross the US > > >>I received this yesterday in my email, complete with unsubscribe link. >> Since I had never subscribed, I treated it as spam. >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> >> John Siebel wrote: >>> >>> Note that Cindy is not a list member so contact her off-list. >>> >>> John Siebel >>> Admin Team >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 12:52 PM >>> Subject: [Rockhounds] Interactive Mapping of Rock Shops and Rock >>> Clubsacross >>> the US >>> >>> > About 6 months ago, Mapmuse.com began a project- the interactive >>> > mapping >>> > of rock shops, and rock clubs and societies across the US. > >>> >>> > Cindy Jett >>> > Mapmuse.com >>> > 1326 14th Street NW >>> > Washington, DC 20005 >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Oct 24 18:33:32 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Oct 24 19:00:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] help on repairing a soapstone vase Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061024112207.036668e8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Hi List, Bill and I are still cleaning up after the earthquake here. I've been gluing a few figurines and vases back together, and now I'm repairing a soapstone vase. It is about 30 cm. tall and 11 cm. across, and has an intricately carved Chinese dragon wrapped around its middle. Bill got it in Bangkok in 1967 and it has more sentimental than monetary value. Fortunately the dragon survived intact, but the flared top of the vase broke into several pieces when it hit the floor. I've glued them back with super glue, and filled the gaps (where little bits were totally gone) with "white powder" (acrylic ester polymers). Now my problem is that the surface needs to be sanded and polished a bit, but I have no special equipment except a Dremel Multipro with flexible shaft and a whole bunch of different tips for grinding, sanding and polishing. I'm concerned that the soapstone is softer than the glued patches and seams, and have no experience with sanding something of different hardnesses. I have no lapidary training. I guess I can experiment with the bottom of the vase, but would like to keep that to a minimum so I don't do more harm. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for any ideas. Aloha, Kitty From agate at cox.net Tue Oct 24 19:04:00 2006 From: agate at cox.net (Hugh Hammerslag) Date: Tue Oct 24 19:04:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Fine Minerals of China Message-ID: <33293475.1161741840813.JavaMail.root@fed1wml08.mgt.cox.net> ---- Cycadwood@aol.com wrote: ============= Fine Minerals of China by Guanghua Liu. A beautifully done guide to the mineral localities of China. The photography is very well done and the full 366 pages are full color. 12 by 8 1/2 inches; 1 3/8 inches thick; just under 5 pounds. $148 plus $7 postage. 4 left This book just hit the market at the Denver Show. I picked up a few extra copies to sell because it is such a well done book. $148 is the standard retail price. The photographs will make you drool. I can take Visa/MasterCard, a check, or PayPal. Frank Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ -- If you have a copy, I will buy it. Please advise. I will Paypal Hugh Hammerslag 13727 W Tartan Dr Sun City West, AZ 85375-5258 From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Tue Oct 24 19:41:50 2006 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Tue Oct 24 19:35:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] help on repairing a soapstone vase In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20061024112207.036668e8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20061024112207.036668e8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <76c73ef7dd0e3598a6297b0bee4bf9c7@nbnet.nb.ca> Hi Kitty, It is tough if you are without lapidary experience. So use the bottom to test on by all means or, if you really want to get picky about it, get yourself another piece of soapstone, break it and glue it same way as you did the vase and experiment on that. As you suspect the glue joints will be harder than the soapstone itself. Nonetheless I'd go for hand-sanding with progressively finer grits of wet-or-dry silicon carbide paper that you can get at any hardware store. Just fold it up into a little pad of whatever size you require and work it wet. When I prep my alabaster bowls for polishing I start the fine sanding with 400 grit, then go to 800, then 1,200. Reading between your lines it sounds as if it was more an item of commerce than a one-off work of art, so chances are the original makers of your piece would not have been quite so meticulous. I'm guessing that they might have gone to 600 or maybe even 800 grit and then rubbed it down with beeswax or similar. I'm suggesting beeswax because I know many of the Canadian arctic Inuit soapstone carvings are both blackened and given lustre by a mundane and unartistic application of black shoe polish. Given the hardness difference the glue joints will tend to stand proud after the hand sanding. Depending on your comfort level with the dremel and its various tips and points you could take the joints down level with the stone after you've hand sanded, working very carefully, judiciously, using say 240 to 400 grit points or discs, and slightly feathering into the base material; then again give those areas a final light hand sanding, just enough to blend everything and not enough to make the joints raise again. Without seeing the piece, any guesses as to polish are speculative. But I'd try a very light rubbing with beeswax on your test piece and if that gives a satisfactory finish, then you have it. If that does not do the trick try tin oxide wet on a felt buff (those little stick-on felt pads that you put under furniture legs work very well stuck to a rubber pad and shaft and chucked into the dremel or an electric drill). Again try this first on your test piece. Hope that helps... by all means email me off-line if you'd like. Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada On 24-Oct-06, at 10:33 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Hi List, > > Bill and I are still cleaning up after the earthquake here. I've been > gluing a few figurines and vases back together, and now I'm repairing > a soapstone vase. It is about 30 cm. tall and 11 cm. across, and has > an intricately carved Chinese dragon wrapped around its middle. Bill > got it in Bangkok in 1967 and it has more sentimental than monetary > value. Fortunately the dragon survived intact, but the flared top of > the vase broke into several pieces when it hit the floor. I've glued > them back with super glue, and filled the gaps (where little bits were > totally gone) with "white powder" (acrylic ester polymers). Now my > problem is that the surface needs to be sanded and polished a bit, but > I have no special equipment except a Dremel Multipro with flexible > shaft and a whole bunch of different tips for grinding, sanding and > polishing. I'm concerned that the soapstone is softer than the glued > patches and seams, and have no experience with sanding something of > different hardnesses. I have no lapidary training. I guess I can > experiment with the bottom of the vase, but would like to keep that to > a minimum so I don't do more harm. Any suggestions? > > Thanks in advance for any ideas. > > Aloha, Kitty > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Oct 24 19:47:31 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Oct 24 19:45:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] help on repairing a soapstone vase References: <6.2.1.2.0.20061024112207.036668e8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <453ECFA3.540D@Tomaszewski.net> Kitty, Take a worn out pair of nylons and use them to hand rub your repaired soapstone to an appropriate polish. A bit of wet cerium oxide will help. Practice on an obscure spot. Kreigh Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > > Hi List, > > Bill and I are still cleaning up after the earthquake here. I've been > gluing a few figurines and vases back together, and now I'm repairing a > soapstone vase. It is about 30 cm. tall and 11 cm. across, and has an > intricately carved Chinese dragon wrapped around its middle. Bill got it > in Bangkok in 1967 and it has more sentimental than monetary > value. Fortunately the dragon survived intact, but the flared top of the > vase broke into several pieces when it hit the floor. I've glued them back > with super glue, and filled the gaps (where little bits were totally gone) > with "white powder" (acrylic ester polymers). Now my problem is that the > surface needs to be sanded and polished a bit, but I have no special > equipment except a Dremel Multipro with flexible shaft and a whole bunch of > different tips for grinding, sanding and polishing. I'm concerned that the > soapstone is softer than the glued patches and seams, and have no > experience with sanding something of different hardnesses. I have no > lapidary training. I guess I can experiment with the bottom of the vase, > but would like to keep that to a minimum so I don't do more harm. Any > suggestions? > > Thanks in advance for any ideas. > > Aloha, Kitty From Cycadwood at aol.com Tue Oct 24 22:01:58 2006 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 24 22:02:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad: Fine Minerals of China Message-ID: In a message dated 10/24/2006 8:05:09 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, agate@cox.net writes: If you have a copy, I will buy it. Please advise. I will Paypal Hugh Hammerslag 13727 W Tartan Dr Sun City West, AZ 85375-5258 Hi Hugh Just make a PayPal payment to _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) for $155. I'll send it right away. Frank Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com_ (mailto:publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com) 970.242.5255 cell 970.216.9641 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and Cycads and Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Tue Oct 24 22:27:46 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Tue Oct 24 22:28:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Barre VT granite has competition Message-ID: <9d7ad9457ad3a6e6a621413074835016@comcast.net> I took the tour of the quarry while visiting Trow Holden Tool Co a couple of years ago, found this in todays paper. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/25/us/25granite.html?th&emc=th From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Wed Oct 25 00:06:38 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Oct 25 00:07:26 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:[ADMIN] Ad: Fine Minerals of China In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061024205508.036960a8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Gentle reminder: responses and exchanges relating to advertisements should be conducted off-list. If anyone is in doubt about the List rules, please check the List Use Policy link that appears at the bottom of every message on the List. Aloha, Kitty (Admin Team Member) From ROCKCURRIER at cs.com Wed Oct 25 05:29:42 2006 From: ROCKCURRIER at cs.com (ROCKCURRIER@cs.com) Date: Wed Oct 25 05:29:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Academy of Science mineral collection Message-ID: Part of the mineral collection of the Academy of Science in Philadelphia (approximately 15,000 specimens) has apparently been sold to a group of three mineral dealers, One in Laguna Beach, California, one in England and one in Denver Colorado. The have not purchased the entire collection, but rather the part of the collection that was not donated to that institution by William Vaux. However, the Academy has apparently made application the Orphans Court for permission to break their original agreement with the Vaux family that the collection be kept intact for ever. Forever is a long time and it is likely that the judge will at some point agree with the Academy. Today I don't think that any institution would agree to accept any collection in perpetuity. The collection was to my knowledge never kept in a vault, but rather a basement room in several banks of old wooden drawers that were at least seven feet high. At least that was the case when I visited the collection many years ago. I spent several days going through the collection and taking pictures of what I considered to be the best specimens. I strongly suspect that it has not changed at all during the last 30 years. No matter what you may think or say about the morality of selling off what we may consider to be a priceless legacy, it is very unlikely that the management of the Academy can be forced to love, cherish, curate and display the collection in the manner that we think it deserves. If the sale could be stooped about the best that could be expected would be that the collection be locked away in a warehouse for another 50 years or until the pendulum that has swung so far against geology and mineralogy swings in a more favorable direction. The collection was certainly offered to other institutions, but none of them felt that they could come up with the money. It is much better that the collection be sold off and recirculated to the people that will best appreciate them. I think that the part of the collection that has been sold off has been sold for at least two million dollars and probably more. The Academy is not in a position to give the specimens away and there is no one there that has a clue of what individual specimens are worth. So, the only practical way they can sell the collection is to those most despised of creatures! Mineral Dealers! Yes, the collection will get spread around to other dealers and it will take at least a month to clean, trim, box, label and price the specimens for sale. Should this cause mineral collectors to consider some other fate for their mineral collections than donation to a museum? You bet it should. However when it comes time for a collector to get rid of possessions he/she is usually quite old and does not have the energy to sell their collections to other collectors. To do so would require that they have some conception of what the specimens are currently worth and old collectors rarely do. Also they don't want to do what to do all the work that mineral dealers do to sell collections. All the collections you know that were not given away were sold to mineral dealers. Right? The exceptions you can probably count on one hand. This is the reality of life. Rock Currier --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rpr at heidelberg.edu Wed Oct 25 06:37:25 2006 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Wed Oct 25 06:37:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] more on repairing soapstone In-Reply-To: <76c73ef7dd0e3598a6297b0bee4bf9c7@nbnet.nb.ca> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20061024112207.036668e8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <76c73ef7dd0e3598a6297b0bee4bf9c7@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: The conversation about Kitty's vase brings me to ask about a similar problem. I have a soapstone carving of a loon which over the years has acquired several "bruises" - places where it got bumped by something, creating a light-colored bruise on the otherwise dark green-grey surface of the carving. These are distracting more because of the color contrast than because of a disruption of the surface. Is there any artful way to "heal" these bruises? I think sanding them out is not feasible. Wax or oil might do the trick, but how to get it to penetrate into the bruise? Thanks, Pete Richards From albalmer at att.net Wed Oct 25 07:54:03 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Oct 25 07:54:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] more on repairing soapstone In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.0.20061024112207.036668e8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <76c73ef7dd0e3598a6297b0bee4bf9c7@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:37:25 -0400, "R. Peter Richards" wrote: >The conversation about Kitty's vase brings me to ask about a similar >problem. I have a soapstone carving of a loon which over the years >has acquired several "bruises" - places where it got bumped by >something, creating a light-colored bruise on the otherwise dark >green-grey surface of the carving. These are distracting more >because of the color contrast than because of a disruption of the >surface. Is there any artful way to "heal" these bruises? I think >sanding them out is not feasible. Wax or oil might do the trick, but >how to get it to penetrate into the bruise? > During my one-session introduction to soapstone carving, the finishing procedure was to warm the item enough to melt wax on it, which was rubbed in, then polished after cooling. IIRC, they used common paraffin. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Oct 25 09:03:54 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Oct 25 09:03:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] more on repairing soapstone In-Reply-To: References: <6.2.1.2.0.20061024112207.036668e8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <76c73ef7dd0e3598a6297b0bee4bf9c7@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: the following URL seems to have some relevant information: http://www.sandycline.com/sculpture/repair.html it amazing what a web search can turn up On 10/25/06, Al Balmer wrote: > On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 09:37:25 -0400, "R. Peter Richards" > wrote: > > >The conversation about Kitty's vase brings me to ask about a similar > >problem. I have a soapstone carving of a loon which over the years > >has acquired several "bruises" - places where it got bumped by > >something, creating a light-colored bruise on the otherwise dark > >green-grey surface of the carving. These are distracting more > >because of the color contrast than because of a disruption of the > >surface. Is there any artful way to "heal" these bruises? I think > >sanding them out is not feasible. Wax or oil might do the trick, but > >how to get it to penetrate into the bruise? > > > During my one-session introduction to soapstone carving, the finishing > procedure was to warm the item enough to melt wax on it, which was > rubbed in, then polished after cooling. IIRC, they used common > paraffin. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Oct 25 09:53:07 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Oct 25 09:56:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] collections, museums and education In-Reply-To: <002c01c6f77d$3eb1f320$6400a8c0@Junior> References: <20061024020111.23884.qmail@web60811.mail.yahoo.com> <002c01c6f77d$3eb1f320$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <453F9673.5030100@verizon.net> I've been out of town for the past several days, at the GSA conference, to which the local paper reported the irony of a 6,000-attendee geology conference on one hand while the museum was selling its historic and important collection, thus kicking sand in the face of its own legacy. I'm sure I will write more when I read all the other messages. But in one sense, and sadly, you all are correct that the collection is better served in the dusty basements of collectors than in a dusty basement of an institution that is supposed to be curating the collection. What the Academy *should* have done is never forsake their responsibility. Many of us remember going there as children and seeing the amazing collection. Now no child will have that opportunity... I don't think any pro-museum people would be arguing that the Academy, or any other museums, should be gathering minerals and putting them in storage. What I would gently suggest is that they are implying that museums should display, curate, and research these collections. That is what is supposed to make a museum a worthwhile institution. More later, Don From turnea55 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 25 12:36:09 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Wed Oct 25 12:36:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Academy of Science mineral collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The dealer in Laguna Beach is Kristalle. They have extremely high end minerals, and have very high prices on all minerals. I got berated in their store a year ago for..gasp..looking at the minerals (mid-grade minerals in drawers that I had looked at many times before, I was asked if I had any idea what I was looking at or the prices). However, it wasn't from the owners..they are very nice but I have some issues with their prices. The dealer is CO is probably Collector's Edge..I know quite a bit about them (former owners of the Benitoite Mine and Sweet Home Mine). They have even higher prices on mid-grade material. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA >From: ROCKCURRIER@cs.com >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: [Rockhounds] The Academy of Science mineral collection >Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:29:42 EDT > >Part of the mineral collection of the Academy of Science in Philadelphia >(approximately 15,000 specimens) has apparently been sold to a group of >three >mineral dealers, One in Laguna Beach, California, one in England and one in >Denver >Colorado. The have not purchased the entire collection, but rather the part >of the collection that was not donated to that institution by William Vaux. >However, the Academy has apparently made application the Orphans Court for >permission to break their original agreement with the Vaux family that the >collection be kept intact for ever. Forever is a long time and it is likely >that the >judge will at some point agree with the Academy. Today I don't think that >any >institution would agree to accept any collection in perpetuity. The >collection >was to my knowledge never kept in a vault, but rather a basement room in >several banks of old wooden drawers that were at least seven feet high. At >least >that was the case when I visited the collection many years ago. I spent >several >days going through the collection and taking pictures of what I considered >to >be the best specimens. I strongly suspect that it has not changed at all >during >the last 30 years. > >No matter what you may think or say about the morality of selling off what >we >may consider to be a priceless legacy, it is very unlikely that the >management of the Academy can be forced to love, cherish, curate and >display the >collection in the manner that we think it deserves. If the sale could be >stooped >about the best that could be expected would be that the collection be >locked away >in a warehouse for another 50 years or until the pendulum that has swung so >far against geology and mineralogy swings in a more favorable direction. >The >collection was certainly offered to other institutions, but none of them >felt >that they could come up with the money. It is much better that the >collection be >sold off and recirculated to the people that will best appreciate them. I >think that the part of the collection that has been sold off has been sold >for at >least two million dollars and probably more. The Academy is not in a >position >to give the specimens away and there is no one there that has a clue of >what >individual specimens are worth. So, the only practical way they can sell >the >collection is to those most despised of creatures! Mineral Dealers! Yes, >the >collection will get spread around to other dealers and it will take at >least a >month to clean, trim, box, label and price the specimens for sale. > >Should this cause mineral collectors to consider some other fate for their >mineral collections than donation to a museum? You bet it should. However >when >it comes time for a collector to get rid of possessions he/she is usually >quite >old and does not have the energy to sell their collections to other >collectors. To do so would require that they have some conception of what >the specimens >are currently worth and old collectors rarely do. Also they don't want to >do >what to do all the work that mineral dealers do to sell collections. All >the >collections you know that were not given away were sold to mineral dealers. >Right? The exceptions you can probably count on one hand. This is the >reality of >life. > >Rock Currier > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Oct 25 20:09:41 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Oct 25 20:04:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Academy of Science mineral collection References: Message-ID: <454025AC.5C61@Tomaszewski.net> ROCKCURRIER@cs.com wrote: > > The collection > was to my knowledge never kept in a vault, but rather a basement room in > several banks of old wooden drawers that were at least seven feet high. At least > that was the case when I visited the collection many years ago. I spent several > days going through the collection and taking pictures of what I considered to > be the best specimens. I strongly suspect that it has not changed at all during > the last 30 years. Rock, Are any of your pictures available online? It would be nice to be able to evaluate the current condition of the collection against its past condition as it becomes available to collectors. Kreigh From JHODEL at wvdep.org Thu Oct 26 06:50:24 2006 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Thu Oct 26 06:50:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Museum de-acquisitions Message-ID: Hi all: One of the things I have enjoyed the past few years is attending the Carnegie Museum Gem and Mineral show in Pittsburgh, PA. And one of the things I enjoyed most was the Saturday night benefit auction, when they would auction off donated specimens, and specimens from multiple museums, to raise funds for acquisitions. This year there isn't an auction. Just dealers selling. I'm not sure a 5 hour drive and the motel costs are worth it, compared to saving the $$ until February in Arizona...I like Pburgh, and I enjoy the show and seeing the hi-end dealers they attract... Last year the bids were low, and on many items didn't meet the reserve. On some I was the only bidder, and my opening bid wasn't near the reserve, and so the item wasn't sold. I did approach the auctioneer after the sale, and was able to buy a nice pentagonite for the reserve price. Then the next day, the dealer who had donated it also gave me a good deal on additional Indian minerals... But I had a bad feeling. I wrote the curator, Marc...I forget his last name for the moment, and made several suggestions to reinvigorate the auction, and never heard back...maybe an underling intercepted it or something... I have bought a number of really nice, really museum-quality specimens over the years at that venue, that were once in famous collections, then in famous museums, and then de-acqluisitioned to make room and raise money. An Elmwood suite from the Houston Museum, formerly in the Perkins Sams collection, for one, really sweet. Not cheap cheap, but not astronomy, either. Oh well, the lot of an old fart is to mourn the good old days... Keep on Rockin' JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From richard_j.margolis at roche.com Thu Oct 26 07:27:04 2006 From: richard_j.margolis at roche.com (Margolis, Richard J.) Date: Thu Oct 26 07:27:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Museum de-acquisitions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <581F9B45F974384EAF2E1D54817D191B041F5811@rnumsem03.nala.roche.com> Hi All, If I remember correctly, Samuel Gorden collected for the Philadelphia Academy. I wonder how many of the fabulous azurites he obtained in Tsumeb in the 1920's were included in the sale. The story of his trip to Tsumed was written in the Min Record Tsumeb issue and they indicated azurites to 4 or 5 inches. Richard Margolis -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J.R. Hodel Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 9:50 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Museum de-acquisitions Hi all: One of the things I have enjoyed the past few years is attending the Carnegie Museum Gem and Mineral show in Pittsburgh, PA. And one of the things I enjoyed most was the Saturday night benefit auction, when they would auction off donated specimens, and specimens from multiple museums, to raise funds for acquisitions. This year there isn't an auction. Just dealers selling. I'm not sure a 5 hour drive and the motel costs are worth it, compared to saving the $$ until February in Arizona...I like Pburgh, and I enjoy the show and seeing the hi-end dealers they attract... Last year the bids were low, and on many items didn't meet the reserve. On some I was the only bidder, and my opening bid wasn't near the reserve, and so the item wasn't sold. I did approach the auctioneer after the sale, and was able to buy a nice pentagonite for the reserve price. Then the next day, the dealer who had donated it also gave me a good deal on additional Indian minerals... But I had a bad feeling. I wrote the curator, Marc...I forget his last name for the moment, and made several suggestions to reinvigorate the auction, and never heard back...maybe an underling intercepted it or something... I have bought a number of really nice, really museum-quality specimens over the years at that venue, that were once in famous collections, then in famous museums, and then de-acqluisitioned to make room and raise money. An Elmwood suite from the Houston Museum, formerly in the Perkins Sams collection, for one, really sweet. Not cheap cheap, but not astronomy, either. Oh well, the lot of an old fart is to mourn the good old days... Keep on Rockin' JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Alpen at aol.com Thu Oct 26 08:06:58 2006 From: Alpen at aol.com (Alpen@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 26 08:07:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood Message-ID: <406.1fae012c.32722912@aol.com> I was wondering if anyone would have some tips on where in the Yellow Cat, UT area one is best hunting for the Yellow Cat Redwood? I'll be heading out there tomorrow (Friday) and would love to find some. It looks like the area was a source of uranium and it's dotted with mines. Does this mean that the Yellow Cat Redwood in that area will be radioactive? Sorry if that's a dumb question. Eric --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Oct 26 08:30:41 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Oct 26 08:30:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood References: <406.1fae012c.32722912@aol.com> Message-ID: <000601c6f913$b324dc30$6501a8c0@CMC3101861A> I found a very large (12 lb) piece of wood, plus a piece of a petrified cone in the Yellow Cat area last month. I couldn't identify the species of the wood, other than very dense, black, and fine grained. If that's redwood, I'll tell you where I found it, email me. Jeanette geenet2@mchsi.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:06 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood >I was wondering if anyone would have some tips on where in the Yellow Cat, > UT area one is best hunting for the Yellow Cat Redwood? I'll be heading > out > there tomorrow (Friday) and would love to find some. It looks like the > area > was a source of uranium and it's dotted with mines. Does this mean that > the > Yellow Cat Redwood in that area will be radioactive? Sorry if that's a > dumb > question. > Eric From tim at orerockon.com Thu Oct 26 08:31:04 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Oct 26 08:31:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood In-Reply-To: <406.1fae012c.32722912@aol.com> References: <406.1fae012c.32722912@aol.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20061026081546.03d5f358@orerockon.com> Yellowcat is fairly well dug; you will have to go deep, very deep, out on the flat, to find anything of note. AFAIK there is no one "good" spot, like many dig sites, you are looking for buried float, not a deposit of any kind. If it is raining or snowing yet in UT, you won't even get that far. Sure it's radioactive; so is quite a bit of orange and bright green jasper/agate/opal, since the bright color is partially due to the presence of uranium or vanadium oxides. Is it radioactive enough for you to worry about it? Absolutely not. Finally, it is not redwood, it is red wood. I wish Frank had never called it redwood in his book; since it is almost always Tempskya, if it can't be identified as Tempskya, it can't be identified, because then it is a filled cast, ala "limb casts". At 08:06 AM 10/26/2006, you wrote: >I was wondering if anyone would have some tips on where in the Yellow Cat, >UT area one is best hunting for the Yellow Cat Redwood? I'll be heading out >there tomorrow (Friday) and would love to find some. It looks like the area >was a source of uranium and it's dotted with mines. Does this mean that the >Yellow Cat Redwood in that area will be radioactive? Sorry if that's a dumb >question. >Eric Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Cycadwood at aol.com Thu Oct 26 10:12:24 2006 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 26 10:12:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood Message-ID: In a message dated 10/26/2006 9:34:37 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, tim@orerockon.com writes: Yellowcat is fairly well dug; you will have to go deep, very deep, out on the flat, to find anything of note. AFAIK there is no one "good" spot, like many dig sites, you are looking for buried float, not a deposit of any kind. If it is raining or snowing yet in UT, you won't even get that far. Sure it's radioactive; so is quite a bit of orange and bright green jasper/agate/opal, since the bright color is partially due to the presence of uranium or vanadium oxides. Is it radioactive enough for you to worry about it? Absolutely not. Finally, it is not redwood, it is red wood. I wish Frank had never called it redwood in his book; since it is almost always Tempskya, if it can't be identified as Tempskya, it can't be identified, because then it is a filled cast, ala "limb casts". *****In my new book we were quite clear to call it "red wood" and not "redwood" and to explain that the name, which it has been called for more than 50 years, derives from the fact that it is red. I have never seen any that was Tempskya. Since red wood comes from a Jurassic Formation it is not possible for it to be Tempskya. It is a conifer. Frank Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com_ (mailto:publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com) 970.242.5255 cell 970.216.9641 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and Cycads and Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Thu Oct 26 13:48:46 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Oct 26 13:48:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20061026132751.03d7a850@orerockon.com> I realize why it is called "redwood"; in the book of yours that I have it is indeed called "redwood". I don't have your new book, so I can only speak to what I know. As to species, do you have any specimens that can be identified as coniferous? I have never seen one; there are none in your previous book. Furthermore, I have never seen a specimen with preserved wood structure, without which it could not possibly be identified as a conifer. Again, I go by what I know, which is from the following paper: Species of the Cretaceous Tree Fern Tempskya from Utah William D. Tidwell, Naomi Hebbert International Journal of Plant Sciences, Vol. 153, No. 3, Part 1 (Sep., 1992), pp. 513-528 In it they discuss numerous localities in the Moab area that yield Tempskya, Yellowcat among them, which they note produces "large numbers of specimens of Tempskya jonesii". All the formations mentioned are Cretaceous, specifically they assign the Yellowcat area to the Lower Cretaceous Cedar Mountain Fm. They do say that in the Cedar Mtn. Fm. the Tempskya is associated with the conifers Paraphyllanthoxylon and Icacinoxylon, both of which lack growth rings, much like the "red wood". They don't say where that occurs, unfortunately. At 10:12 AM 10/26/2006, you wrote: > > >In a message dated 10/26/2006 9:34:37 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, >tim@orerockon.com writes: > >Yellowcat is fairly well dug; you will have to go deep, very deep, >out on the flat, to find anything of note. AFAIK there is no one >"good" spot, like many dig sites, you are looking for buried float, >not a deposit of any kind. If it is raining or snowing yet in UT, you >won't even get that far. Sure it's radioactive; so is quite a bit of >orange and bright green jasper/agate/opal, since the bright color is >partially due to the presence of uranium or vanadium oxides. Is it >radioactive enough for you to worry about it? Absolutely not. >Finally, it is not redwood, it is red wood. I wish Frank had never >called it redwood in his book; since it is almost always Tempskya, if >it can't be identified as Tempskya, it can't be identified, because >then it is a filled cast, ala "limb casts". > > > >*****In my new book we were quite clear to call it "red wood" and not >"redwood" and to explain that the name, which it has been called for >more than 50 >years, derives from the fact that it is red. I have never seen any that was >Tempskya. Since red wood comes from a Jurassic Formation it is not possible >for it to be Tempskya. It is a conifer. > >Frank Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Cycadwood at aol.com Thu Oct 26 14:33:56 2006 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 26 14:34:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood Message-ID: <305.48f2b57f.327283c4@aol.com> In a message dated 10/26/2006 2:50:29 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, tim@orerockon.com writes: I realize why it is called "redwood"; in the book of yours that I have it is indeed called "redwood". I don't have your new book, so I can only speak to what I know. As to species, do you have any specimens that can be identified as coniferous? I have never seen one; there are none in your previous book. Furthermore, I have never seen a specimen with preserved wood structure, without which it could not possibly be identified as a conifer. Again, I go by what I know, which is from the following paper: Species of the Cretaceous Tree Fern Tempskya from Utah William D. Tidwell, Naomi Hebbert International Journal of Plant Sciences, Vol. 153, No. 3, Part 1 (Sep., 1992), pp. 513-528 In it they discuss numerous localities in the Moab area that yield Tempskya, Yellowcat among them, which they note produces "large numbers of specimens of Tempskya jonesii". All the formations mentioned are Cretaceous, specifically they assign the Yellowcat area to the Lower Cretaceous Cedar Mountain Fm. They do say that in the Cedar Mtn. Fm. the Tempskya is associated with the conifers Paraphyllanthoxylon and Icacinoxylon, both of which lack growth rings, much like the "red wood". They don't say where that occurs, unfortunately. ****"The Yellow Cat" area is certainly large enough to be home to several exposed formations. The red wood only comes from the Jurassic Brushy Basin Member of the Morrison Formation. As with all Tempskya, it is only found in Cretaceous formations, and none of it is red wood. Is is not red at all; it is normally tan. There is also fossil wood in the Cretaceous formations in and around Yellow Cat, but it is quite unremarkable in appearance. Some of the red wood from Yellow Cat has minute remnant, poorly preserved cell structure. Most is purely cast. Some specimens are short shoots. For Jurassic age wood there are not too many choices other than conifer. There are cycads and some ferns, but no Tempskya. Dr. Tidwell recognizes the red wood as conifer. Frank Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com_ (mailto:publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com) 970.242.5255 cell 970.216.9641 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and Cycads and Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Thu Oct 26 15:16:19 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Oct 26 15:16:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood In-Reply-To: <305.48f2b57f.327283c4@aol.com> References: <305.48f2b57f.327283c4@aol.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20061026145626.03d7c418@orerockon.com> Cool, thanks for the info. Just curious, though, since angiosperms invaded North America during the late Jurassic, why do you say that being Jurassic, it must be coniferous? I thought there have been a few flowering plants found in the latest Jurassic in N Am? Isn't the Morrison late Jurassic? At 02:33 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote: > > >****"The Yellow Cat" area is certainly large enough to be home to several >exposed formations. The red wood only comes from the Jurassic Brushy Basin >Member of the Morrison Formation. As with all Tempskya, it is only found in >Cretaceous formations, and none of it is red wood. Is is not red at >all; it is >normally tan. There is also fossil wood in the Cretaceous formations in and >around Yellow Cat, but it is quite unremarkable in appearance. Some >of the red >wood from Yellow Cat has minute remnant, poorly preserved cell >structure. Most >is purely cast. Some specimens are short shoots. For Jurassic age wood there >are not too many choices other than conifer. There are cycads and >some ferns, >but no Tempskya. Dr. Tidwell recognizes the red wood as conifer. > >Frank Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Cycadwood at aol.com Thu Oct 26 15:40:43 2006 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 26 15:40:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood Message-ID: In a message dated 10/26/2006 4:17:12 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, tim@orerockon.com writes: Cool, thanks for the info. Just curious, though, since angiosperms invaded North America during the late Jurassic, why do you say that being Jurassic, it must be coniferous? I thought there have been a few flowering plants found in the latest Jurassic in N Am? Isn't the Morrison late Jurassic? I have never seen an angiosperm from the Jurassic, nor have I heard of angiosperm wood from the Jurassic. There is some debate about angiosperm origins and when they first appeared. According to The Evolution of Plants by Willis and McElwain (Oxford University Press, 2002), "flowering plants are relatively recent, with fossil evidence indicating their first appearance at around 140 million years ago in the Early Cretaceous...." Frank Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com_ (mailto:publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com) 970.242.5255 cell 970.216.9641 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and Cycads and Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Oct 26 19:36:10 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Oct 26 19:28:07 2006 Subject: Angiosperms {2as: Re: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood} References: Message-ID: <45416EAE.5E22@Tomaszewski.net> The recent discovery of a 100 million year old bee fossil http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6084974.stm strongly suggests angiosperms were well established by that time. The oldest flowers go back at least another 25 -- 45 million years http://www.entomology.cornell.edu/BeePhylogeny/fossils.html which gets us well back into the early Cretacceous. Molecular studies push angiosperms back to the Triassic/Jurassic boundary. Pollen studies suggest the late Jurassic http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/280/5360/85 for established angiosperms. Kreigh Cycadwood@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 10/26/2006 4:17:12 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, > tim@orerockon.com writes: > > Cool, thanks for the info. Just curious, though, since angiosperms > invaded North America during the late Jurassic, why do you say that > being Jurassic, it must be coniferous? I thought there have been a > few flowering plants found in the latest Jurassic in N Am? Isn't the > Morrison late Jurassic? > > I have never seen an angiosperm from the Jurassic, nor have I heard of > angiosperm wood from the Jurassic. There is some debate about angiosperm origins > and when they first appeared. According to The Evolution of Plants by Willis > and McElwain (Oxford University Press, 2002), "flowering plants are relatively > recent, with fossil evidence indicating their first appearance at around 140 > million years ago in the Early Cretaceous...." > > Frank > > Frank J. Daniels, Publisher > Western Colorado Publishing Company > 2024 Freedom Court > Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 > _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ > publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com_ (mailto:publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com) > 970.242.5255 > cell 970.216.9641 > Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and > Cycads and Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. From geenet2 at mchsi.com Thu Oct 26 20:00:27 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Oct 26 20:00:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Yellow Cat Redwood} References: <45416EAE.5E22@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <005001c6f974$0eb47d70$6501a8c0@CMC3101861A> So, after all this discussion, does anybody have a guess as to what species a dark, grainy, petrified wood from the Yellow Cat area might be?? The other piece that looked like a pine cone to our club "expert" also looks like the outside of a cycad to me. Jeanette >> Cool, thanks for the info. Just curious, though, since angiosperms >> invaded North America during the late Jurassic, why do you say that >> being Jurassic, it must be coniferous? I thought there have been a >> few flowering plants found in the latest Jurassic in N Am? Isn't the >> Morrison late Jurassic? >> >> I have never seen an angiosperm from the Jurassic, nor have I heard of >> angiosperm wood from the Jurassic. There is some debate about angiosperm >> origins >> and when they first appeared. According to The Evolution of Plants by >> Willis >> and McElwain (Oxford University Press, 2002), "flowering plants are >> relatively >> recent, with fossil evidence indicating their first appearance at around >> 140 >> million years ago in the Early Cretaceous...." >> >> Frank From Cycadwood at aol.com Thu Oct 26 20:03:48 2006 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 26 20:03:54 2006 Subject: Angiosperms {2as: Re: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood} Message-ID: In a message dated 10/26/2006 8:28:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: The recent discovery of a 100 million year old bee fossil http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6084974.stm strongly suggests angiosperms were well established by that time. The oldest flowers go back at least another 25 -- 45 million years http://www.entomology.cornell.edu/BeePhylogeny/fossils.html which gets us well back into the early Cretacceous. Molecular studies push angiosperms back to the Triassic/Jurassic boundary. Pollen studies suggest the late Jurassic http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/280/5360/85 for established angiosperms. Kreigh ******Grasses. Flowers. Perhaps. But wood? Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com_ (mailto:publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com) 970.242.5255 cell 970.216.9641 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and Cycads and Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rgangue at yahoo.com Thu Oct 26 20:41:10 2006 From: rgangue at yahoo.com (Stan Perry) Date: Thu Oct 26 20:41:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Academy of Science mineral collection In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20061027034110.50610.qmail@web54205.mail.yahoo.com> My guess is that the English dealer is Ian Bruce who runs Crystal Classics. He purchased part of the Zinn collection with Collectors Edge and likely combined efforts again. He is very high on mineral prices. They have a clientele I could only dream about. I often think it would be interesting to buy a nice $1000 rock from one of them and see how long I would have to carry it to shows before it would sell to my more frugal Midwest customers .... might have tried it already except I don't want to get stuck with it forever. I'd love to get a hold of the dregs these guys will likely want to put in a dumpster. Cheers, Stan --- Andrew Turner wrote: > The dealer in Laguna Beach is Kristalle. They have > extremely high end > minerals, and have very high prices on all minerals. > I got berated in their > store a year ago for..gasp..looking at the minerals > (mid-grade minerals in > drawers that I had looked at many times before, I > was asked if I had any > idea what I was looking at or the prices). However, > it wasn't from the > owners..they are very nice but I have some issues > with their prices. The > dealer is CO is probably Collector's Edge..I know > quite a bit about them > (former owners of the Benitoite Mine and Sweet Home > Mine). They have even > higher prices on mid-grade material. > > Andrew Turner > Victorville, CA > > >From: ROCKCURRIER@cs.com > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list > for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >Subject: [Rockhounds] The Academy of Science > mineral collection > >Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:29:42 EDT > > > >Part of the mineral collection of the Academy of > Science in Philadelphia > >(approximately 15,000 specimens) has apparently > been sold to a group of > >three > >mineral dealers, One in Laguna Beach, California, > one in England and one in > >Denver > >Colorado. The have not purchased the entire > collection, but rather the part > >of the collection that was not donated to that > institution by William Vaux. > >However, the Academy has apparently made > application the Orphans Court for > >permission to break their original agreement with > the Vaux family that the > >collection be kept intact for ever. Forever is a > long time and it is likely > >that the > >judge will at some point agree with the Academy. > Today I don't think that > >any > >institution would agree to accept any collection in > perpetuity. The > >collection > >was to my knowledge never kept in a vault, but > rather a basement room in > >several banks of old wooden drawers that were at > least seven feet high. At > >least > >that was the case when I visited the collection > many years ago. I spent > >several > >days going through the collection and taking > pictures of what I considered > >to > >be the best specimens. I strongly suspect that it > has not changed at all > >during > >the last 30 years. > > > >No matter what you may think or say about the > morality of selling off what > >we > >may consider to be a priceless legacy, it is very > unlikely that the > >management of the Academy can be forced to love, > cherish, curate and > >display the > >collection in the manner that we think it deserves. > If the sale could be > >stooped > >about the best that could be expected would be that > the collection be > >locked away > >in a warehouse for another 50 years or until the > pendulum that has swung so > >far against geology and mineralogy swings in a more > favorable direction. > >The > >collection was certainly offered to other > institutions, but none of them > >felt > >that they could come up with the money. It is much > better that the > >collection be > >sold off and recirculated to the people that will > best appreciate them. I > >think that the part of the collection that has been > sold off has been sold > >for at > >least two million dollars and probably more. The > Academy is not in a > >position > >to give the specimens away and there is no one > there that has a clue of > >what > >individual specimens are worth. So, the only > practical way they can sell > >the > >collection is to those most despised of creatures! > Mineral Dealers! Yes, > >the > >collection will get spread around to other dealers > and it will take at > >least a > >month to clean, trim, box, label and price the > specimens for sale. > > > >Should this cause mineral collectors to consider > some other fate for their > >mineral collections than donation to a museum? You > bet it should. However > >when > >it comes time for a collector to get rid of > possessions he/she is usually > >quite > >old and does not have the energy to sell their > collections to other > >collectors. To do so would require that they have > some conception of what > >the specimens > >are currently worth and old collectors rarely do. > Also they don't want to > >do > >what to do all the work that mineral dealers do to > sell collections. All > >the > >collections you know that were not given away were > sold to mineral dealers. > >Right? The exceptions you can probably count on one > hand. This is the > >reality of > >life. > > > >Rock Currier > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > >--- > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > Stan Perry Our Gangue Minerals www.emineralshow.com Ebay seller ID rgangue e-mail at rgangue@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Thu Oct 26 21:24:05 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Oct 26 21:24:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] help on repairing a soapstone vase In-Reply-To: <76c73ef7dd0e3598a6297b0bee4bf9c7@nbnet.nb.ca> References: <6.2.1.2.0.20061024112207.036668e8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> <76c73ef7dd0e3598a6297b0bee4bf9c7@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061026181732.03e74cb8@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Many thanks to all who responded to my plea for help. The repair is progressing slowly. I've learned a lot from your posts, and from a website referral. This is a great List! Aloha, Kitty From ROCKCURRIER at cs.com Thu Oct 26 21:34:52 2006 From: ROCKCURRIER at cs.com (ROCKCURRIER@cs.com) Date: Thu Oct 26 21:34:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The collection of the Academy of Science in Philladelphia Message-ID: In a message dated 10/26/2006 6:07:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: > Rock, > > Are any of your pictures available online? It would be nice to be able > to evaluate the current condition of the collection against its past > condition as it becomes available to collectors. > > Kreigh All of the pictures I took at the time were on 35 mm color slides. None of them are available on line. The color and sharpness have remained very good even 30 years later. I have thought from time to time of buying a slide scanner to digitize them so I could do things like put them on line. In my youth I took thousands of pictures of what I considered to be the best specimens in various museums and private collections. I used an electronic flash, a Nikon camera with a high resolution lens and a slow color film, so the detail is still very sharp after all these years. At the time I saw the collection I did not know which were the Vaux specimens and which were the ones that were non Vaux specimens so I don't know which if any of the specimens I photographed might be in the hands of the dealers who bought the collection. Also, keep in mind that I probably only took pictures of 100 or so pieces. Although I remember some of them to this day, there are many that I don't remember and have no way of selecting out the Academy specimens except by going through the tens of thousands of slides one by one. They are arranged alphabetically by species and not by were I took the pictures. Also I only got pictures of the specimen in the drawers and not of many of the fine specimens that they had on display in the mineral display room but I think those were mostly in the collection of William Vaux. Sam Gordon on his trip to Tsumeb and on most of his trips had several masters. Although he was ostensibly traveling for the Academy, he was also buying specimens for William and possibly also for George Vaux. I think that most of the money for purchases was supplied by one or the other Vauxes and when the azurites came back, undoubtedly some of them went to the Academy, but I think that more of them may have ended up in the collection at Bryn Mawr College near Philadelphia (the George Vaux collection) than at the Academy. That is just my opinion from what I have seen. Rock --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Alpen at aol.com Fri Oct 27 06:33:25 2006 From: Alpen at aol.com (Alpen@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 27 06:33:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 29, Issue 28 Message-ID: Thanks for the help. It did snow here in Denver, but I'm not sure if they got any moisture out there. Hopefully not- or I won't even be able to get through some of those roads, much less dig in the clay. And thanks for the clarification of the redwood vs red wood. Makes sense. Eric In a message dated 10/26/2006 7:08:04 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: Yellowcat is fairly well dug; you will have to go deep, very deep, out on the flat, to find anything of note. AFAIK there is no one "good" spot, like many dig sites, you are looking for buried float, not a deposit of any kind. If it is raining or snowing yet in UT, you won't even get that far. Sure it's radioactive; so is quite a bit of orange and bright green jasper/agate/opal, since the bright color is partially due to the presence of uranium or vanadium oxides. Is it radioactive enough for you to worry about it? Absolutely not. Finally, it is not redwood, it is red wood. I wish Frank had never called it redwood in his book; since it is almost always Tempskya, if it can't be identified as Tempskya, it can't be identified, because then it is a filled cast, ala "limb casts". --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Fri Oct 27 08:42:30 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Oct 27 08:42:35 2006 Subject: Angiosperms {2as: Re: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood} In-Reply-To: <45416EAE.5E22@Tomaszewski.net> References: <45416EAE.5E22@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20061027082908.03dd64a0@orerockon.com> Kreigh, a Google Scholar search turns up tens of references on late Jurassic angiosperm fossils, not just flies lol. That is why I asked; I knew I had read the Science article a while back. There is also a good article in Nature on the famous (or should I say infamous lol) Jehol biota that goes into the late Jurassic origins of their flowering plant flora. In other words, earliest Cretaceous flowering plants did not just pop up after the end of the Jurassic as a diverse group. It looks like 45 million years before the start of the Cretaceous is a good guess for the basal evolution of flowering plants. And of course as you well know, in biology "well everybody knows that..." statements are almost predestined to be proven false, and indeed most are. Heck, I even do it every once in a while lol. At 07:36 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote: >The recent discovery of a 100 million year old bee fossil > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6084974.stm > >strongly suggests angiosperms were well established by that time. > >The oldest flowers go back at least another 25 -- 45 million years > > http://www.entomology.cornell.edu/BeePhylogeny/fossils.html > >which gets us well back into the early Cretacceous. Molecular studies >push angiosperms back to the Triassic/Jurassic boundary. > >Pollen studies suggest the late Jurassic > > http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/280/5360/85 > >for established angiosperms. > >Kreigh Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From jlkelly1066 at iglide.net Fri Oct 27 10:33:27 2006 From: jlkelly1066 at iglide.net (jlkelly1066) Date: Fri Oct 27 10:33:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Red Wood Message-ID: <454242e7.160.57f2.29411@iglide.net> Wow! One of the most intelligent exchanges I have seen in years on the list and no one called Tim a ************** or anything else. (You must be slipping Tim.) Sorry to get in late to this but i really need to add my two cents. My sweetheart and i were down in Moab two weeks ago, ran into the "right" person this trip and came back with "red" wood as well as some other treasures we have been hoping to find for many years. The wood is found at the bottom of the Morrison Formation, it is NOT easy to find, you DO have to do some major digging and then it all comes down to LUCK. The wood also is found along the edge of what is quite obviously an ancient river, obvious once you realize what you are looking for and looking at. Yeah, most of it is in splinters but once in awhile you find a real treasure. Remember, any trip to Moab HAS to include bone, wood, some of the prettiest agate, jasper, corprolite and gastroliths found anywhere, plus, without exception, some of the grandest scenery in the world. Good hunting. Kelly From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Oct 27 18:41:27 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Oct 27 18:42:53 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (Perhaps OT) Mica and Ceramics References: <454242e7.160.57f2.29411@iglide.net> Message-ID: <007901c6fa32$39518370$0300a8c0@Notebook> Hey List, Julie and I are considering ceramics as a hobby to fill in our limited spare time. We've done a bit of web searching today re: clays and glazes. Julie wants to include mica to add "Sparklyite" to whatever we end up creating. She found one article on SW American Indians using micaceous clay. Are there any ceramicists on the List who might suggest other minerals/techniques, favorite websites, lists, etc.? Is there a resource that can give me the melting point of minerals that I might want to include in the clay/glaze (I'm considering: epidote, garnet, various zeolites, calcite, quartz, etc.). Feel free to contact me off-List if this is too off topic. Thanks in advance, John From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Oct 27 19:10:28 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Oct 27 19:10:05 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (Perhaps OT) Mica and Ceramics In-Reply-To: <007901c6fa32$39518370$0300a8c0@Notebook> References: <454242e7.160.57f2.29411@iglide.net> <007901c6fa32$39518370$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <4542BC14.10905@verizon.net> You might like to try the bone-white micaceous clay that outcrops on the road just south of Bovill. You can see the sparklies on close inspection. I haven't analyzed it yet--and that promises to be quite a pain anyway--but I suspect it is rich in kaolin. COme to think of it, I gave it a quick shot on the diffractometer, enough to see the two strongest peaks for kaolinite, but it would be sloppy to base a firm ID on that. This material is quite odd for the area and only outcrops in a few roadcuts. Everybody in ag-sci calls it the "badlands" soil. DD John Siebel wrote: > Hey List, > > Julie and I are considering ceramics as a hobby to fill in our limited > spare time. We've done a bit of web searching today re: clays and > glazes. Julie wants to include mica to add "Sparklyite" to whatever we > end up creating. She found one article on SW American Indians using > micaceous clay. Are there any ceramicists on the List who might suggest > other minerals/techniques, favorite websites, lists, etc.? Is there a > resource that can give me the melting point of minerals that I might > want to include in the clay/glaze (I'm considering: epidote, garnet, > various zeolites, calcite, quartz, etc.). > > Feel free to contact me off-List if this is too off topic. > > Thanks in advance, > > John > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Oct 27 20:03:15 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Oct 27 19:52:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (Perhaps OT) Mica and Ceramics References: <454242e7.160.57f2.29411@iglide.net> <007901c6fa32$39518370$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <4542C5E0.2B9C@Tomaszewski.net> John, The CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics contains a table with the melting points of many common minerals. Brush's Determinative Mineralogy and Blowpipe Analysis includes melting point data indirectly by the tables of fusability. Doing a Google search on 'using minerals in pottery glazes' will give you much interesting reading. BTW, I wonder if you could recycle lapidary sludge into clay or glaze. Kreigh John Siebel wrote: > > Hey List, > > Julie and I are considering ceramics as a hobby to fill in our limited spare > time. We've done a bit of web searching today re: clays and glazes. Julie > wants to include mica to add "Sparklyite" to whatever we end up creating. > She found one article on SW American Indians using micaceous clay. Are there > any ceramicists on the List who might suggest other minerals/techniques, > favorite websites, lists, etc.? Is there a resource that can give me the > melting point of minerals that I might want to include in the clay/glaze > (I'm considering: epidote, garnet, various zeolites, calcite, quartz, etc.). > > Feel free to contact me off-List if this is too off topic. > > Thanks in advance, > > John From tim at orerockon.com Fri Oct 27 20:02:56 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Oct 27 20:03:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (Perhaps OT) Mica and Ceramics In-Reply-To: <4542BC14.10905@verizon.net> References: <454242e7.160.57f2.29411@iglide.net> <007901c6fa32$39518370$0300a8c0@Notebook> <4542BC14.10905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20061027195749.03dd0978@orerockon.com> Isn't that the general area of the former kaolinite mines (Deary-Bovill)? And a few new mining proposals? Seems I read something on ID Geology's site about some new mines going in near Bovill a while back. At 07:10 PM 10/27/2006, you wrote: You might like to try the bone-white micaceous clay that outcrops on the road just south of Bovill. You can see the sparklies on close inspection. I haven't analyzed it yet--and that promises to be quite a pain anyway--but I suspect it is rich in kaolin. COme to think of it, I gave it a quick shot on the diffractometer, enough to see the two strongest peaks for kaolinite, but it would be sloppy to base a firm ID on that. This material is quite odd for the area and only outcrops in a few roadcuts. Everybody in ag-sci calls it the {quot}badlands{quot} soil. DD John Siebel wrote: Hey List, Julie and I are considering ceramics as a hobby to fill in our limited spare time. We've done a bit of web searching today re: clays and glazes. Julie wants to include mica to add {quot}Sparklyite{quot} to whatever we end up creating. She found one article on SW American Indians using micaceous clay. Are there any ceramicists on the List who might suggest other minerals/techniques, favorite websites, lists, etc.? Is there a resource that can give me the melting point of minerals that I might want to include in the clay/glaze (I'm considering: epidote, garnet, various zeolites, calcite, quartz, etc.). Feel free to contact me off-List if this is too off topic. Thanks in advance, John Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. nospam@OreRockOn.com WWW http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From tim at orerockon.com Fri Oct 27 20:03:11 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Oct 27 20:03:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (Perhaps OT) Mica and Ceramics Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20061027200305.03dcad78@orerockon.com> Isn't that the general area of the former kaolinite mines (Deary-Bovill)? And a few new mining proposals? Seems I read something on ID Geology's site about some new mines going in near Bovill a while back. At 07:10 PM 10/27/2006, you wrote: >You might like to try the bone-white micaceous clay that outcrops on >the road just south of Bovill. You can see the sparklies on close >inspection. I haven't analyzed it yet--and that promises to be >quite a pain anyway--but I suspect it is rich in kaolin. COme to >think of it, I gave it a quick shot on the diffractometer, enough to >see the two strongest peaks for kaolinite, but it would be sloppy to >base a firm ID on that. This material is quite odd for the area and >only outcrops in a few roadcuts. Everybody in ag-sci calls it the >"badlands" soil. > >DD > >John Siebel wrote: > >>Hey List, >>Julie and I are considering ceramics as a hobby to fill in our >>limited spare time. We've done a bit of web searching today re: >>clays and glazes. Julie wants to include mica to add "Sparklyite" >>to whatever we end up creating. She found one article on SW >>American Indians using micaceous clay. Are there any ceramicists on >>the List who might suggest other minerals/techniques, favorite >>websites, lists, etc.? Is there a resource that can give me the >>melting point of minerals that I might want to include in the >>clay/glaze (I'm considering: epidote, garnet, various zeolites, >>calcite, quartz, etc.). >>Feel free to contact me off-List if this is too off topic. >>Thanks in advance, >>John > >Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Fri Oct 27 20:05:08 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Fri Oct 27 20:06:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (Perhaps OT) Mica and Ceramics References: <454242e7.160.57f2.29411@iglide.net><007901c6fa32$39518370$0300a8c0@Notebook> <4542C5E0.2B9C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <00a601c6fa3d$e85a9f40$0300a8c0@Notebook> Now THERE'S a cool concept!! Thanks - John > BTW, I wonder if you could recycle lapidary sludge into clay or glaze. > > Kreigh From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Oct 27 20:13:33 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Oct 27 20:13:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (Perhaps OT) Mica and Ceramics In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20061027195749.03dd0978@orerockon.com> References: <454242e7.160.57f2.29411@iglide.net> <007901c6fa32$39518370$0300a8c0@Notebook> <4542BC14.10905@verizon.net> <7.0.0.16.2.20061027195749.03dd0978@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <4542CADD.7050409@verizon.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > > Isn't that the general area of the former kaolinite mines (Deary-Bovill)? > And a few new mining proposals? Seems I read something on ID Geology's > site about some new mines going in near Bovill a while back. Ooops, I guess that wasn't off-list. Well anyway, now that you mention it, there is some talk of a clay mine proposed there, or maybe it already has been created. Unfortunately, people tend to specialize, and the answers you get depend upon whom you ask. I know there are only a few people with detailed knowledge of the origins of these layers (they certainly did not derive from the flood basalts, and don't appear to be related to the local granites) and they are retired. I'm sure I'll be doing a lot of book research on the clay layers since they form a part of the surface profile around here. Don From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Oct 27 21:36:16 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Oct 27 21:36:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (Perhaps OT) Mica and Ceramics In-Reply-To: <007901c6fa32$39518370$0300a8c0@Notebook> References: <454242e7.160.57f2.29411@iglide.net> <007901c6fa32$39518370$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20061027163214.03fb3968@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Hi John & Julie, Welcome you to the wonderful world of cooking earth! While some aspects of ceramics are pretty far from the Rockhounds topic, a discussion of clay bodies and glazes and how they react to the heat of firing I believe are relevant, especially if you collect your own clay and glaze ingredients. A form of pottery that is particularly fun is called "primitive firing," or "pit firing." If you google either of those terms you'll find lots of sites that tell you how to make pottery without a kiln. It's fun because anyone can do it wherever you can dig a hole and burn some wood (in some American desert areas traditional Indian methods use dried cow dung instead of wood). Also, because there is much less control over the temperature than in a commercial kiln, you will get varying results each time. That's great if you like surprises and "accidental art," but it's frustrating if you are a control freak. Try the following sites: http://www.claystation.com/technical/firing/pit.html and http://www.claystation.com/technical/firing/pit_techniques/intro.html When I taught at Hawaii Preparatory Academy in Waimea, here on the Big Island, at the end of the school year they would have a big lu'au with a pig cooked in an imu, or Hawaiian pit oven. The following website gives a good description of the traditional imu and modern adaptations. To keep this on topic I will note that they spend a few sentences talking about the type of basalt ROCKS that are used for cooking. http://www.primitiveways.com/Imu1.html I would have my ceramics class prepare pots out of low-fire clay, and when the pig (and other food) was in the imu and covered with leaves, my students would place their pots on top, along with some foil-wrapped packets of chicken and potatoes to serve as lunch. Then the imu would be covered with earth, and we would sit and wait. After about an hour, we would invariably hear a small "POW" or "PUMPH" or as someone's pot would explode (because the clay was not completely dry, or because a young potter had left an air-pocket during construction, or because the heat of the oven was uneven). When the time came to open the imu, our pieces (and lunch packets) come off first, and there were cries of glee from the kids as I lifted things off with a long pair of tongs. Every student made several pieces, so chances were at least one would survive. Of course you can dig your own clay-firing pit without cooking a pig in it! We dug our own clay from sugar-cane road-cuts where the red soil can be seen to hold together and become slick during rain, indicating it would work as clay, with some cleaning and amending with bentonite. By the way (Axel, take note) BEER is a good additive to improve elasticity, but keep an eye on your supply! We made our own glazes by experimenting with additions to a thin clay slurry of items like fireplace ashes, rust scraped from old iron pipes, copper filings from a pipe-fitter's lathe, etc. There are also forms of glazing and firing involving salt. I've done raku firing (an ancient Japanese form) using a metal garbage can half-filled with leaves and sawdust: Lift the pottery from the fire pit with long tongs, drop them in the can, toss in a few more leaves, and when the flames start, put on the lid to let the smoke and reduction environment (heat with no oxygen) work on the clay. Traditionalists then lift the pieces out and plunge them into water, but that requires special clay, and I find the results just as good without it. At the moment I can't give you specific advice about adding minerals, except to say that you'll probably have better luck at lower temperatures (such as you get with primitive pit firing). With high-fire (possible with a kiln) you get a stronger finished product---like "stoneware"---but the high temperature will alter or burn off some additives. I'll do some checking of my sources. Aloha, Kitty At 03:41 PM 10/27/2006, you wrote: >Hey List, > >Julie and I are considering ceramics as a hobby to fill in our limited >spare time. We've done a bit of web searching today re: clays and glazes. >Julie wants to include mica to add "Sparklyite" to whatever we end up >creating. She found one article on SW American Indians using micaceous >clay. Are there any ceramicists on the List who might suggest other >minerals/techniques, favorite websites, lists, etc.? Is there a resource >that can give me the melting point of minerals that I might want to >include in the clay/glaze (I'm considering: epidote, garnet, various >zeolites, calcite, quartz, etc.). > >Feel free to contact me off-List if this is too off topic. > >Thanks in advance, > >John > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sdan93 at qwest.net Fri Oct 27 22:02:26 2006 From: sdan93 at qwest.net (Dan Siler) Date: Fri Oct 27 22:02:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood In-Reply-To: AAAAAEUcfcyA4cBEgH1wy23z6wZEsiQA Message-ID: <000001c6fa4e$42dcfd90$0500a8c0@D3CLKJ81> I was out two weeks ago (in the rain) got stuck twice.If it rains the roads are very bad due to the bentonite clay and washed out roads. The main road is good due to gas and oil drilling. Also they have had more rain than normal Lake Powell with 1900 miles of shore line has raised almost 6 feet that's the first time in 12 years that has happened in Oct. Found a lot of petrified wood and limb casts that ran from black, tan, blue, gray, white and green no redwood. I checked the wood with a Geiger counter no reading but picked up some of the yellow and green colored stonestone and got indications off all of it. Found some pieces that look like plant life but not conifer or tempskya. -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tim Fisher Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 9:31 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Redwood Yellowcat is fairly well dug; you will have to go deep, very deep, out on the flat, to find anything of note. AFAIK there is no one "good" spot, like many dig sites, you are looking for buried float, not a deposit of any kind. If it is raining or snowing yet in UT, you won't even get that far. Sure it's radioactive; so is quite a bit of orange and bright green jasper/agate/opal, since the bright color is partially due to the presence of uranium or vanadium oxides. Is it radioactive enough for you to worry about it? Absolutely not. Finally, it is not redwood, it is red wood. I wish Frank had never called it redwood in his book; since it is almost always Tempskya, if it can't be identified as Tempskya, it can't be identified, because then it is a filled cast, ala "limb casts". At 08:06 AM 10/26/2006, you wrote: >I was wondering if anyone would have some tips on where in the Yellow Cat, >UT area one is best hunting for the Yellow Cat Redwood? I'll be heading out >there tomorrow (Friday) and would love to find some. It looks like the area >was a source of uranium and it's dotted with mines. Does this mean that the >Yellow Cat Redwood in that area will be radioactive? Sorry if that's a dumb >question. >Eric Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From bobl at peaktopeak.com Sat Oct 28 11:44:12 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Sat Oct 28 11:44:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Red Wood In-Reply-To: <454242e7.160.57f2.29411@iglide.net> Message-ID: <200610281844.k9SIiBkF021633@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi all, We have posted a field trip report and pictures from our Yellow Cat, Utah field trip on our website. Please go to http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/2006/trips06.php and click on the "Yellow Cat and Cisco, Utah" link. That will take you to the bottom of that page and then you can click on the respective field trip report link and/or pictures link. We don't have any pictures of the red wood from there, but there is a picture of a dino bone, black and white pet. wood and scenery pictures. I'll try to get some red wood pics from the people who went on the trip. The trip report is long but good. And don't forget to look at the other reports and pictures from other trips this year. We had many trips this year and lots of pictures were taken. We'll post a couple more reports and pictures soon (hopefully). Regards, Bob Loeffler BobL@peaktopeak.com Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem & Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/index.php Webmaster and Asst. Dealer Chairman Denver Gem and Mineral Show http://www.DenverMineralShow.com Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/colorado/index.php3 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jlkelly1066 Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:33 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellow Cat Red Wood Wow! One of the most intelligent exchanges I have seen in years on the list and no one called Tim a ************** or anything else. (You must be slipping Tim.) Sorry to get in late to this but i really need to add my two cents. My sweetheart and i were down in Moab two weeks ago, ran into the "right" person this trip and came back with "red" wood as well as some other treasures we have been hoping to find for many years. The wood is found at the bottom of the Morrison Formation, it is NOT easy to find, you DO have to do some major digging and then it all comes down to LUCK. The wood also is found along the edge of what is quite obviously an ancient river, obvious once you realize what you are looking for and looking at. Yeah, most of it is in splinters but once in awhile you find a real treasure. Remember, any trip to Moab HAS to include bone, wood, some of the prettiest agate, jasper, corprolite and gastroliths found anywhere, plus, without exception, some of the grandest scenery in the world. Good hunting. Kelly -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Oct 28 15:50:05 2006 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Oct 28 15:50:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (Perhaps OT) Mica and Ceramics In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.0.20061027163214.03fb3968@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: Kitty & Bill wrote >with some cleaning and amending with bentonite. By the way > (Axel, take note) BEER is a good additive to improve elasticity, but keep > an eye on your supply! Hahaaa! That makes sense since my elasticity has greatly improved since I started drinking beer ;-))) Have any of you tried egg-white as a binding agent yet? If you do and your clay is very white (no iron), be sure to flash the resulting pottery with a UV-lamp! Vincenzo Casciarolo used egg white, among other ingredients) to bake barite powder into a very phosphorescent "cake" in the 15th century. Egg-white contains quite a bit sulfur and there's no telling what an excess amount of this element may or may not do in terms of luminescence. ;-))) http://www.isbc.unibo.it/Files/10_SE_BoStone.htm for further details BTW: Kitty, has the ground come to rest yet? No more damage? Take care Axel From Lapidry at aol.com Sat Oct 28 17:56:37 2006 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Sat Oct 28 17:56:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rochester NY show this weekend Message-ID: <266.12b3e5cf.32755645@aol.com> October 28-29, 2006: Rochester, NY: Mineral, Fossil, Gem, Jewelry, Beads, Tools, Rough Stone and lots more! Free Kids Activities! Free Demonstrations! Minett Hall, Dome Center (Monroe County Fairgrounds) Hylan Drive exit off 390 to Calkins Road. October 28th 10am-6pm, 29th, 10am-5pm. Sponsored by the Rochester Lapidary Society and the RAS Mineral Section. For more information contact Larry Schulmann, 585-271-6967, _namluchcs@aol.com_ (mailto:namluchcs@aol.com) . Website: _www.rochesterlapidary.org_ (http://www.rochesterlapidary.org) . --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sat Oct 28 18:32:34 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Oct 28 18:32:38 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clay and pottery is on topic by definition Message-ID: <20061029013234.82602.qmail@web56311.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi List: John, you're nuts to think you have spare time! But pottery is interesting, and I think everything to do with ceramics (and glass for that matter) is relevant to a mineralogical listserv. Clay is a mineral, after all... Over the week beginning with Columbus Day Martha and I went to Sunset Island, NC, which is the southernmost (and westernmost) barrier island in NC before you get to SC. On the way down we visited with friends (Bob, with whom I attended school and his wife Marty Stebbins) east of Fayetteville, near Pinehurst. Driving down I noticed that most of the exposed earth was typical southern red clay, but every so often there would be a stretch of white soil. I mentioned that to Marty and Bob, and they mentioned that NC 705 was also called Potter's Road. Turns out there is something like 90 different potters along there. Now, long ago I learned that feldspar erodes into a white clay called montmorillonite - it also occurs as a pocket mud, I think. I suspect that these white pockets of soil along US 220 south of Greensboro are ancient feldspar deposits or pegmatites, decayed into white clay soil. And last spring we went to Taos, NM, for our 35th anniversary (Whoo hoo!) and met other old friends from long ago. I always like to study local cultures as we travel around, and the Pueblo cultures are especially interesting because they're native and old. There are lots of different pottery styles at the different Pueblos, and some folks are pretty reticent about how they do what they do and where the raw materials come from. Mica is naturally present in some Pueblos' clay pits, and some of their pots have a glittery surface from the tiny particles. I'm thinking that a variety of minerals that can be reduced to a powder will be interesting in ceramics, from colors and textures to surface luster, and that varying firing temperatures with a variety of minerals in and on clay will be a very interesting thing to systematically experiment with. I came across a book about pottery ( and others about adobe construction, and the early 1900s art movements, and the history of the Pueblo tribes and their interactions with first the Spanish europeans and then the Americans but some of this gets off topic!) and part of the discussion was how some ceramic masters were happy to share their knowledge and others were quite close about their skills and knowledge. So, anyways, John, keep us posted on what you try and how it turns out...I'm interested in learning about adobe and earth-sheltered buildings in the hot southwest, and once I've got that down I might be getting into clay arts. KoR everybody! JR in WV --------------------------------- Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Oct 28 19:22:19 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Oct 28 19:22:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Clay and pottery is on topic by definition References: <20061029013234.82602.qmail@web56311.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4544103F.6905@Tomaszewski.net> Pottery is a form of lapidary. J. R. Hodel wrote: > > Hi List: > > John, you're nuts to think you have spare time! But pottery is interesting, and I think everything to do with ceramics (and glass for that matter) is relevant to a mineralogical listserv. Clay is a mineral, after all... From Bobslgn at aol.com Sat Oct 28 20:38:59 2006 From: Bobslgn at aol.com (Bobslgn@aol.com) Date: Sat Oct 28 20:39:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mica nd Ceramics Message-ID: John, Ceramics is a wonderful hobby. The choice of the clay body and type of glazes presents an amazing variety of possible finished product. While it has been some time since I have had the opportunity to do any work with clay, I do recall that there is a specialized form of glazes which produce crystals during the firing. The sprays of crystals can be quite beautiful and produce a very reflective surface. I believe there are some internet sources for clay body and glaze formulation. One caution, to your consideration of using mineral pieces in or on your work, as one of the other list members pointed out, trapped moisture or air bubbles can cause explosions during firing. When you choose to experiment start with small rectangular "tiles" to test your different clay bodies and then your glazes. Purchase some "cones" from a supplier to measure the firing temperature. The cones are special tapered bits of clay designed to melt/sag at given temperatures. Since this is an old art you can find very good information in the used book store and save your entertainment dollars. Good luck and enjoy yourselves. References: Message-ID: <454427B3.4090005@verizon.net> Bobslgn@aol.com wrote: > <(I'm considering: epidote, garnet, various zeolites, calcite, quartz, etc.). Oh by the way, if you really want to *melt* minerals, most silicates melt at pretty high temps. Zeolites do funny things when heated; I don't think you'll get good results with those. The others you listed can survive pretty high temp and pressure conditions, but might crack or shatter if heated or cooled too quickly. Something called the CRC Handbook might have the melting points of the major minerals, but it is expensive when new and hard to find used & cheap, since it is a high-demand item (but look for it anyway; you might get lucky). I'll ask my petrology professor on Tuesday if there is a simple list of melting points for the minerals. The list is probably in one of the many thick volumes of references I have on the shelf, but of course I'd need to actually go look through all of them...... Don From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Oct 28 22:58:45 2006 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Oct 28 23:00:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (Perhaps OT) Mica and Ceramics References: <454242e7.160.57f2.29411@iglide.net><007901c6fa32$39518370$0300a8c0@Notebook><4542C5E0.2B9C@Tomaszewski.net> <00a601c6fa3d$e85a9f40$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <004701c6fb1f$55437500$0300a8c0@Notebook> I'd like to thank you all for your input on this subject. I've gotten some great information. You're a pretty good group of folks. John From pjmodreski at att.net Sat Oct 28 23:18:40 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sat Oct 28 23:18:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] (Perhaps OT) Mica and Ceramics Message-ID: <102920060618.29695.454447C0000AE71B000073FF215876672007059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> John, a last comment, I just wanted to mention a book I found recently at the our Museum of Nature & Science book shop, "Clay, the history and evolution of humankind's relationship with Earth's most primal element" (by Suzanne Staubach, 2005, Berkley Books, New York, 272 p.). An interesting book; a lot about the history and technology of pottery around the world, plus it talks about other uses of clay, too (buildings, tile, ceramics, agriculture, etc.). And, I forget exactly what all's been said here in this thread about micaceous clay pottery (deleted some of the emails), but I guess you know about how micaceous clay pottery is a popular form at some of the Pueblos in northern New Mexico; especially Picuris, which is in the Picuris Range (south and east of Taos), where there is a great deal of mica schist (also staurolite xls), which I guess weathers in places to the micaceous clay that they use. Pete -------------- Original message from "John Siebel" : -------------- > I'd like to thank you all for your input on this subject. I've gotten some > great information. You're a pretty good group of folks. > > John > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds at adelphia.net Sun Oct 29 09:20:11 2006 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (Kelly Hanson) Date: Sun Oct 29 09:14:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dispay case plans needed In-Reply-To: <004701c6fb1f$55437500$0300a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <000b01c6fb7e$808f3dc0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> HI all I want to build a pair of Federation qualified display cases and I need plans. Can anyone help me? Kelly Hanson From Paintricks at aol.com Sun Oct 29 11:26:08 2006 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Sun Oct 29 11:26:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dispay case plans needed Message-ID: Ask for Steve, At _SJRPRIME@aol.com_ (mailto:SJRPRIME@aol.com) . He builds nice cases and surly he can help. Kevin --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Oct 29 13:03:51 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Oct 29 13:00:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dispay case plans needed References: <000b01c6fb7e$808f3dc0$0200a8c0@KellyHanson> Message-ID: <45450869.572A@Tomaszewski.net> Kelly Hanson wrote: > > HI all > I want to build a pair of Federation qualified display cases and I need > plans. Can anyone help me? > Kelly Hanson > A unit area display per the rules http://amfed.org/rules/rules.htm must not exceed 12 sq. ft. in floor space and 36 in. (inside measurement) in height. In some cases a two unit display is permitted, which may be one long case, or multiple adjacent cases, that constitute a single exhibit. The use of shelves, back or ends of the cases is optional to the exhibitor. Kreigh From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Sun Oct 29 17:21:04 2006 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Sun Oct 29 17:21:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Metal clay/Mica and Ceramics Message-ID: Another option would be to combine lapidary & ceramics. There are 2 companies making the "clay" PMC & ACS. There are many ways to create including mixed media, polymer, porcelain, enamel and gold. You can even fire lab grown gems right in your piece. http://www.artclayworld.com/artclaytosilver.html http://www.pmcguild.com/history.html You can test fire minerals in a kiln, just add padding around the mineral with part of a fiber blanket. It using a digital kiln you can also find out the melting point. From bg at his.com Mon Oct 30 17:48:20 2006 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Mon Oct 30 17:48:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] gerlach, nv Message-ID: <8a9ad8669801c7da35e2239f210dcc7f@his.com> does anyone know if opal can still be collected in the gerlach, nv area (not virgin valley)? if so, does anyone have a contact there? thanks, cathy From vewalden at aol.com Tue Oct 31 04:54:54 2006 From: vewalden at aol.com (vewalden@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 31 04:54:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hello Message-ID: <8C8CB02E5744C19-690-BAAF@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> My name is Rick. I am 55 years old and I have enjoyed rocks and minerals and Geology since I was old enough to pick up a rock. I think I missed my calling because I just love it and always have. Everywhere I go if there are rocks in sight, I am always looking through them. I found a piece of amethyst one day in a gravel parking lot, just looking. I have ordered me some books to read so that maybe I can get started collecting and maybe one day I will have a place with a room to keep them. I have gone through some pretty rough times the last several years with being laid off and losing everything. I had a heart attack in 2004 and had a steent put in, then 2005, I had a stroke and just last week I had to have another heart catherization and the steent is blocked and that particular artery us dead. So anyway I need something to enjoy and relax for a change. I am in way, way north Alabama, almost in Tennessee. Any suggestions on areas close to do a little initial rockhounding? Thanks for listening Rick ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jbf at jbfminerals.com Tue Oct 31 06:46:41 2006 From: jbf at jbfminerals.com (Jeff Fast) Date: Tue Oct 31 06:46:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] vewalden@aol.com References: <8C8CB02E5744C19-690-BAAF@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002201c6fcfb$610387d0$b757a545@Dell2004> Rick, If you want to find places to look, you need to join your local mineral club. Google "Bob's rock shop" and there is a list of local clubs there. Join a club and even if you cannot go to the meetings, pay the 10 or 15 dollar membership fee and you will get bulletins AND the right to join them on field trips... Jeff Fast www.jbfminerals.com (860) 985 - 6321 (USA) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:54 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] hello > My name is Rick. I am 55 years old and I have enjoyed rocks and minerals > and Geology since I was old enough to pick up a rock. I think I missed my > calling because I just love it and always have. Everywhere I go if there > are rocks in sight, I am always looking through them. I found a piece of > amethyst one day in a gravel parking lot, just looking. I have ordered me > some books to read so that maybe I can get started collecting and maybe > one day I will have a place with a room to keep them. I have gone through > some pretty rough times the last several years with being laid off and > losing everything. I had a heart attack in 2004 and had a steent put in, > then 2005, I had a stroke and just last week I had to have another heart > catherization and the steent is blocked and that particular artery us > dead. So anyway I need something to enjoy and relax for a change. I am in > way, way north Alabama, almost in Tennessee. Any suggestions on areas > close to do a little initial rockhounding? T! > hanks for listening > > Rick > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security > tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, > free AOL Mail and more. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 09:04:39 2006 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue Oct 31 09:04:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hello (Alabama) In-Reply-To: <8C8CB02E5744C19-690-BAAF@FWM-D44.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20061031170439.45615.qmail@web51013.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Rick, Welcome aboard. In Fort Payne along Gault Ave (I think) is an excavation into a hillside of the Ft Payne Chert formation. There in are geodes containing quartz/calcite crystals in lined chambers chalcedony, jasper plus the occasional fossil sponge. Most all the streams in NE Alabama have petrified wood. There is a mineral database at where you can search locations. Go there and enter "Alabama" and you you'll se a by county list of locations. I usually join a couple mineral clubs where ever I am or visit. There is a mineral club in Fort Payne: Fort Payne - DESOTO GEM & MINERAL CLUB 2100 Gault Ave. South (35967) Meetings: 2nd Monday, 7:00 pm DeKalb County Public Library 504 Grand Ave., NW, Fort Payne Regards, Elton From geenet2 at mchsi.com Tue Oct 31 17:45:08 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (geenet2@mchsi.com) Date: Tue Oct 31 17:45:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] hello Message-ID: <110120060145.671.4547FC240002A4A80000029F219791336303010CD2079C080C03BFCD9B0A020A0A09@mchsi.com> Welcome from way, way South Alabama almost in the Gulf. You can find some really nice red, white and clear agate in Paint Rock, Alabama near Huntsville, called what else...Paint Rock Agate. North Alabama is rich in minerals of all kinds. We even had our own gold rush of a sort a long time ago. Just do a little research on minerals in Alabama and you'll find enough to keep you busy. Jeanette So anyway I need something to enjoy and relax for a change. I am > in way, way north Alabama, almost in Tennessee. Any suggestions on areas close > to do a little initial rockhounding? T! > hanks for listening > > Rick > From bearonweb at yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 23:40:33 2006 From: bearonweb at yahoo.com (David Bear) Date: Tue Oct 31 23:41:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Using Minerals In Ceramic Glazes Message-ID: <20061101074033.61814.qmail@web38910.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi. I asked my sister about this. She has been very involved in ceramics and clay for many years. Here's her comments: I dont have any experience or knowledge on melting points of minerals. However I would suggest having fun and experimenting with it rather than getting bogged down in technical info. They could e-mail Laguna Clay located in the city of Commerce (Ca). They might have someone on a tech staff. Santa Fe Clay (located in Santa Fe New Mexico) also might have info. They are on the avant garde of workshops and artists. Hope this helps. - David David Bear Arizona Certified Legal Document Preparer: #80104 3116 S. Mill Ave., #459, Tempe AZ 85282 (480)829-3933 --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html ---