From jemstone at amug.org Fri Sep 1 23:55:43 2006 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Fri Sep 1 23:55:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dugway UT trip report References: <20599520.1156739952856.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <008201c6ce5c$cf58bc50$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> The Dust Devil indeed was hit with sabotage. Their D-9 dozer was seriously damaged by having dirt poured into the fuel tank. The engine had to be rebuilt. One of the partners commented that the way it was sabotaged seemed directly out of an "Earth First" type booklet. As an unnecessary aside, I'd like to have a T Shirt that, in large letters, said "EARTH FIRST" and under that, in smaller letters, said "We'll mine the rest of the planets later." John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona From: "Grant Johnston" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Dugway UT trip report > On 8/27/06, Cliff Jackson wrote: >> > >> The claim owner was very nice and has no problem with rock hounds coming >> in and collecting but we may lose the privilege. Someone had been there >> and did several thousand dollars damage to his equipment that had been >> left at the site. >> >> > Unfortunately, that has happened at the sunstone mines in Plush, OR > too. I don't know if the Dust Devil has had problems but I know the > Spectrum had some vandalism a couple years ago. > > Chris and Jessica let my grandson dig for free -- and he could keep > everything he found. Now he's 11 or 12 years old and has a bag of > sunstones, memories, and a lot of respect for private property. > > I believe some kids just get bored and become destructive. When he > gets bored he looks for rocks or pans for gold. He has started to > learn a good hobby. > > Thanks to the Spectrum for their generosity. I know they helped one > kid who hasn't always had all the nice things kids should have. > > Grant Johnston,, Chico, CA From agate at cox.net Sat Sep 2 10:30:20 2006 From: agate at cox.net (Hugh Hammerslag) Date: Sat Sep 2 10:30:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] T-Shirt Message-ID: <26310232.1157218220829.JavaMail.root@fed1wml08.mgt.cox.net> ---- John McLaughlin wrote: ============= One of the partners commented that the way it was sabotaged seemed directly out of an "Earth First" type booklet. As an unnecessary aside, I'd like to have a T Shirt that, in large letters, said "EARTH FIRST" and under that, in smaller letters, said "We'll mine the rest of the planets later." John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona John: I am wearing such a T-Shirt now, I bought it from Caledonia Copper Mining Company at Tucson in 2005. TYhey show as Red Metal. Hugh Hammerslag Sun City West, AZ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Sep 2 12:14:47 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Sep 2 12:14:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dugway UT trip report References: <20599520.1156739952856.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <008201c6ce5c$cf58bc50$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <44F9D820.7325@Tomaszewski.net> John McLaughlin wrote: > As an unnecessary aside, I'd like to have a T Shirt that, in large letters, > said "EARTH FIRST" and under that, in smaller letters, said "We'll mine the > rest of the planets later." CafePress.com has "Earth First, we'll strip mine the other planets later" t-shirts for sale. Just go to the website and search for 'strip mine'. Kreigh P.S., I have no interest in CafePress other than as a customer From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Sep 2 12:48:56 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Sep 2 12:48:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dugway UT trip report In-Reply-To: <44F9D820.7325@Tomaszewski.net> References: <20599520.1156739952856.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <008201c6ce5c$cf58bc50$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> <44F9D820.7325@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <44F9E028.2030706@verizon.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > John McLaughlin wrote: > > CafePress.com has "Earth First, we'll strip mine the other planets > later" t-shirts for sale. Just go to the website and search for 'strip > mine'. That's cool except I wouldn't wear it because the addition of the word "strip" adds a dimension I don't want to project; but I can't find one that just says "we'll mine the other planets later." What I really want is the bumper sticker or t-shirt that says "if it can't be grown, it has to be mined," but I can't find that either. My web search skills must be getting worse. Then I can put the sticker on my car next to the "don't pave paradise" bumper sticker (a campaign against expanding the highway to go over nearby Paradise Ridge, which is across the street). That will really confuse people. Don From gene at fossilnut.com Sat Sep 2 12:50:25 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Sat Sep 2 12:54:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] T-Shirt References: <26310232.1157218220829.JavaMail.root@fed1wml08.mgt.cox.net> Message-ID: <00b001c6cec9$0a11e0d0$6400a8c0@hppav> Would you like the bumper sticker?If so send your address off list. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hugh Hammerslag" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: "John McLaughlin" Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 1:30 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] T-Shirt > > ---- John McLaughlin wrote: > > ============= > One of the partners commented that the way it was sabotaged seemed > directly out of an "Earth First" type booklet. > > As an unnecessary aside, I'd like to have a T Shirt that, in large > letters, > said "EARTH FIRST" and under that, in smaller letters, said "We'll mine > the > rest of the planets later." > > John McLaughlin > Glendale, Arizona > > > John: > > I am wearing such a T-Shirt now, I bought it from Caledonia Copper Mining > Company at Tucson in 2005. TYhey show as Red Metal. > > Hugh Hammerslag > Sun City West, AZ > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Sep 2 14:31:34 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Sep 2 14:31:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [Rockhounds ]Dust Devil vandals, etc. References: <20599520.1156739952856.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <008201c6ce5c$cf58bc50$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: <003501c6ced7$29f83260$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I would like to think that NO rockhound would ever vandalize a piece of equipment. In fact, if rockhounds were allowed to the site, their presence would discourange the "gas-tank farmers" from causing problems. (Theoretically, of course.) I know of a story from the early 1970's where a rockhound (who was familiar with quarry equipment) drilled and shot the wall so he could collect some fluorite at an active quarry. While he was smart enough to operate the equipment, he was an idiot in every other respect. He blasted the ramp and trapped himself (and his vehicle) in the pit on a Saturday and was found by the quarry owners on Monday. It took about a dozen years to get access again. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "John McLaughlin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 2:55 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Dugway UT trip report > The Dust Devil indeed was hit with sabotage. Their D-9 dozer was > seriously damaged by having dirt poured into the fuel tank. The engine > had to be rebuilt. One of the partners commented that the way it was > sabotaged seemed directly out of an "Earth First" type booklet. > > As an unnecessary aside, I'd like to have a T Shirt that, in large > letters, said "EARTH FIRST" and under that, in smaller letters, said > "We'll mine the rest of the planets later." > > John McLaughlin > Glendale, Arizona > > From: "Grant Johnston" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Dugway UT trip report > > >> On 8/27/06, Cliff Jackson wrote: >>> > >>> The claim owner was very nice and has no problem with rock hounds coming >>> in and collecting but we may lose the privilege. Someone had been there >>> and did several thousand dollars damage to his equipment that had been >>> left at the site. >>> >>> >> Unfortunately, that has happened at the sunstone mines in Plush, OR >> too. I don't know if the Dust Devil has had problems but I know the >> Spectrum had some vandalism a couple years ago. >> >> Chris and Jessica let my grandson dig for free -- and he could keep >> everything he found. Now he's 11 or 12 years old and has a bag of >> sunstones, memories, and a lot of respect for private property. >> >> I believe some kids just get bored and become destructive. When he >> gets bored he looks for rocks or pans for gold. He has started to >> learn a good hobby. >> >> Thanks to the Spectrum for their generosity. I know they helped one >> kid who hasn't always had all the nice things kids should have. >> >> Grant Johnston,, Chico, CA > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Sep 2 16:53:11 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Sep 2 16:52:36 2006 Subject: It has to be mined {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Dugway UT trip report} References: <20599520.1156739952856.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <008201c6ce5c$cf58bc50$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> <44F9D820.7325@Tomaszewski.net> <44F9E028.2030706@verizon.net> Message-ID: <44FA193E.187E@Tomaszewski.net> The Mineral Information Institute (mii.org) has the poster for "if it can't be grown, it has to be mined". The Society for Mining, Metallurgy and Exploration (smenet.org) used to sell the t-shirt in their bookstore. I've seen many references to the bumper sticker, but I have yet to find anyone that sells them. I think you will have to have it custom made. Kreigh DonH wrote: > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > John McLaughlin wrote: > > > > CafePress.com has "Earth First, we'll strip mine the other planets > > later" t-shirts for sale. Just go to the website and search for 'strip > > mine'. > > That's cool except I wouldn't wear it because the addition of the word > "strip" adds a dimension I don't want to project; but I can't find one > that just says "we'll mine the other planets later." What I really want > is the bumper sticker or t-shirt that says "if it can't be grown, it has > to be mined," but I can't find that either. My web search skills must > be getting worse. From turnea55 at hotmail.com Sat Sep 2 17:03:08 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Sat Sep 2 17:03:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: bumper stickers In-Reply-To: <44FA193E.187E@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: They sell all those types of bumper stickers at geological society meetings and conferences. I'll try to find one of the companies that sells them. My other favorites are "stop plate tectonics", "strip mining prevents forest fires," and "evolve or die (with a picture of a trilobite)". I've seen t-shirts, bumper stickers, and magnets with all these sayings. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: It has to be mined {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Dugway UT trip report} >Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:53:11 -0400 > >The Mineral Information Institute (mii.org) has the poster for "if it >can't be grown, it has to be mined". > >The Society for Mining, Metallurgy and Exploration (smenet.org) used to >sell the t-shirt in their bookstore. > >I've seen many references to the bumper sticker, but I have yet to find >anyone that sells them. I think you will have to have it custom made. > >Kreigh > > > > > >DonH wrote: > > > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > John McLaughlin wrote: > > > > > > CafePress.com has "Earth First, we'll strip mine the other planets > > > later" t-shirts for sale. Just go to the website and search for 'strip > > > mine'. > > > > That's cool except I wouldn't wear it because the addition of the word > > "strip" adds a dimension I don't want to project; but I can't find one > > that just says "we'll mine the other planets later." What I really want > > is the bumper sticker or t-shirt that says "if it can't be grown, it has > > to be mined," but I can't find that either. My web search skills must > > be getting worse. > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jemstone at amug.org Sat Sep 2 23:23:22 2006 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Sat Sep 2 23:23:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [Rockhounds ]Dust Devil vandals, etc. References: <20599520.1156739952856.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net><008201c6ce5c$cf58bc50$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> <003501c6ced7$29f83260$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <00ec01c6cf21$77971be0$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> Actually, the Dust Devil Mine partners welcome rockhounds. They always say that they started off as rockhounds and that things just got way out of hand. Their welcome extends to winter travelers in the area. They leave the main office trailer open and equipped with supplies so that a stranded traveler (generally due to tire problems) has a place of shelter and food during the winter months, should a storm hit the area and lock them in. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona - where I am listening to the sound of rain. We on the low desert get real excited at that sound and generally grin all day the following day. We were visiting at a friend's home this afternoon when the rains started. Most folks go inside when it rains, but on the low desert we go out to enjoy it (under a patio or porch roof). The air temperature dropped from 105 to 85 in a few minutes. Six folks, women and men, all around 60 years old and all enjoying the rain like five year old kids. From: "Alan Goldstein" Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [Rockhounds ]Dust Devil vandals, etc. >I would like to think that NO rockhound would ever vandalize a piece of >equipment. In fact, if rockhounds were allowed to the site, their presence >would discourange the "gas-tank farmers" from causing problems. >(Theoretically, of course.) > > I know of a story from the early 1970's where a rockhound (who was > familiar with quarry equipment) drilled and shot the wall so he could > collect some fluorite at an active quarry. While he was smart enough to > operate the equipment, he was an idiot in every other respect. He blasted > the ramp and trapped himself (and his vehicle) in the pit on a Saturday > and was found by the quarry owners on Monday. It took about a dozen years > to get access again. > > Alan > From mineral.maertens at att.net Sun Sep 3 07:31:10 2006 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan Maertens) Date: Sun Sep 3 07:36:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Contact for Dr. Kenneth J. Brock (Emeritus) In-Reply-To: <200609030100.k8310Kit022149@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Would someone have contact information for Dr. Kenneth J. Brock (Emeritus)? Ken retired from Indiana University Northwest and has not been seen there for a while. His former secretary does not share/have his home information. I am searching for a copy and possible updates to his 1991 presentation on "A Computer Analysis of Goldschmidt's Calcite drawings using SHAPE", at the 18th Rochester Mineralogical Symposium? Johan Maertens mineral dot maertens at att dot net Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite Collectors Association Visit http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Sep 3 08:02:30 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Sep 3 08:02:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Contact for Dr. Kenneth J. Brock (Emeritus) In-Reply-To: References: <200609030100.k8310Kit022149@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: His email on this page doesn't work? http://www.iun.edu/~geos/kbrock.shtml BK On 9/3/06, Johan Maertens wrote: > > Would someone have contact information for Dr. Kenneth J. Brock > (Emeritus)? > Ken retired from Indiana University Northwest and has not been seen > there for a while. > His former secretary does not share/have his home information. > > I am searching for a copy and possible updates to his 1991 > presentation on "A Computer Analysis of Goldschmidt's Calcite > drawings using SHAPE", at the 18th Rochester Mineralogical Symposium? > > Johan Maertens > mineral dot maertens at att dot net > > Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? > Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at > http://www.minerant.org > Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite > Collectors Association > Visit http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Sun Sep 3 13:52:28 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sun Sep 3 13:52:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] meteoric water? Message-ID: Hello, I was looking at photos of core samples from a molybdenum (molybdenite) mine. Out of curiosity, I also downloaded a 110 page feasibility study in pdf format. I think I understand part of it but in the summery of the geologic report there is a reference to "meteoric"water. Does that mean what it seems to mean? If so, how would a geologist determine it was from a meteor? I cut & pasted the summery paragraph below. A link to photos of the core samples are below that. "These deposits are thought to originate from large volumes of magmatic, highly saline aqueous fluids under pressure. Multiple stages of brecciation related to explosive fluid pressure release from the upper parts of small intrusions result in deposition of ore and gangue minerals in crosscutting fractures, veinlets and breccias in the outer carapace of the intrusions and in associated country rocks. Incursion of meteoric water during waning stages of the magmatic-hydrothermal system may result in late alteration of the host rocks, but does not play a significant role in the ore-forming process (Sinclair, 1995)." http://www.adanacmoly.com/album_detail.php?album_id=1 Thanks. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Sep 3 14:02:31 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Sep 3 14:02:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] meteoric water? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It probably doesn't mean what you think it does: me?te?or?ic wa?ter noun Definition: *water in ground formed from atmosphere: *water in the ground that has come from the atmosphere as rain or condensation, rather than forming chemically underground BK On 9/3/06, Grant Johnston wrote: > > Hello, > > I was looking at photos of core samples from a molybdenum > (molybdenite) mine. Out of curiosity, I also downloaded a 110 page > feasibility study in pdf format. > > I think I understand part of it but in the summery of the geologic > report there is a reference to "meteoric"water. Does that mean what it > seems to mean? If so, how would a geologist determine it was from a > meteor? I cut & pasted the summery paragraph below. A link to photos > of the core samples are below that. > > "These deposits are thought to originate from large volumes of > magmatic, highly saline aqueous fluids under pressure. Multiple stages > of brecciation related to explosive fluid pressure release from the > upper parts of small intrusions result in deposition of ore and gangue > minerals in crosscutting fractures, veinlets and > breccias in the outer carapace of the intrusions and in associated > country rocks. > Incursion of meteoric water during waning stages of the > magmatic-hydrothermal > system may result in late alteration of the host rocks, but does not > play a significant role in the ore-forming process (Sinclair, 1995)." > > > http://www.adanacmoly.com/album_detail.php?album_id=1 > > Thanks. > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Sep 3 14:06:49 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Sep 3 14:06:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] meteoric water? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44FB43E9.50501@verizon.net> Hey I can put my education to use now. Unfortunately the term is confusing unless you investigate the root word, the same root word as in "meteorology", the study of weather. So essentially it is water provided by precipitation. While I am not a fan of user-supplied data banks, this definition from Wikipedia is quite useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteoric_water Good luck, Don From roughrock at gmail.com Sun Sep 3 14:08:46 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sun Sep 3 14:08:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] meteoric water? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks. Now the last sentence of the summery makes more sense. Grant On 9/3/06, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > It probably doesn't mean what you think it does: > > > > > me?te?or?ic wa?ter > noun > Definition: *water in ground formed from atmosphere: *water in the ground > that has come from the atmosphere as rain or condensation, rather than > forming chemically underground > > BK > > On 9/3/06, Grant Johnston wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > I was looking at photos of core samples from a molybdenum > > (molybdenite) mine. Out of curiosity, I also downloaded a 110 page > > feasibility study in pdf format. > > > > I think I understand part of it but in the summery of the geologic > > report there is a reference to "meteoric"water. Does that mean what it > > seems to mean? If so, how would a geologist determine it was from a > > meteor? I cut & pasted the summery paragraph below. A link to photos > > of the core samples are below that. > > > > "These deposits are thought to originate from large volumes of > > magmatic, highly saline aqueous fluids under pressure. Multiple stages > > of brecciation related to explosive fluid pressure release from the > > upper parts of small intrusions result in deposition of ore and gangue > > minerals in crosscutting fractures, veinlets and > > breccias in the outer carapace of the intrusions and in associated > > country rocks. > > Incursion of meteoric water during waning stages of the > > magmatic-hydrothermal > > system may result in late alteration of the host rocks, but does not > > play a significant role in the ore-forming process (Sinclair, 1995)." > > > > > > http://www.adanacmoly.com/album_detail.php?album_id=1 > > > > Thanks. > > > > Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From teyancey at mail.tca.net Sun Sep 3 14:07:05 2006 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Sun Sep 3 14:08:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] meteoric water? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Meteoric water is the term used to indicate rainfall water; as in meteorology. It means rainfall that seeps into the ground and becomes ground water, that interacts with other waters. In geologic studies the term meteoric applies to water that is different from magmatic waters or saline waters that are trapped in sediments when deposited in marine basins. There is a chemical difference in waters that has an influence on the composition of minerals forming in subsurface deposits. T. Yancey >Hello, > >I was looking at photos of core samples from a molybdenum >(molybdenite) mine. Out of curiosity, I also downloaded a 110 page >feasibility study in pdf format. > >I think I understand part of it but in the summery of the geologic >report there is a reference to "meteoric"water. Does that mean what it >seems to mean? If so, how would a geologist determine it was from a >meteor? I cut & pasted the summery paragraph below. A link to photos >of the core samples are below that. > >"These deposits are thought to originate from large volumes of >magmatic, highly saline aqueous fluids under pressure. Multiple stages >of brecciation related to explosive fluid pressure release from the >upper parts of small intrusions result in deposition of ore and gangue >minerals in crosscutting fractures, veinlets and >breccias in the outer carapace of the intrusions and in associated >country rocks. >Incursion of meteoric water during waning stages of the magmatic-hydrothermal >system may result in late alteration of the host rocks, but does not >play a significant role in the ore-forming process (Sinclair, 1995)." > > >http://www.adanacmoly.com/album_detail.php?album_id=1 > >Thanks. > >Grant Johnston, Chico, CA >-- -- Thomas Yancey From roughrock at gmail.com Sun Sep 3 14:23:47 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sun Sep 3 14:23:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] meteoric water? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks to all of you. I read that paragraph and, not understanding what meteoric water meant, I became curious about why it was even included in the report. In the proper context, it does add to the report. Grant On 9/3/06, Thomas Yancey wrote: > Meteoric water is the term used to indicate rainfall water; as in > meteorology. It means rainfall that seeps into the ground and becomes > ground water, that interacts with other waters. In geologic studies > the term meteoric applies to water that is different from magmatic > waters or saline waters that are trapped in sediments when deposited > in marine basins. There is a chemical difference in waters that has > an influence on the composition of minerals forming in subsurface > deposits. > > T. Yancey > > > >Hello, > > > >I was looking at photos of core samples from a molybdenum > >(molybdenite) mine. Out of curiosity, I also downloaded a 110 page > >feasibility study in pdf format. > > > >I think I understand part of it but in the summery of the geologic > >report there is a reference to "meteoric"water. Does that mean what it > >seems to mean? If so, how would a geologist determine it was from a > >meteor? I cut & pasted the summery paragraph below. A link to photos > >of the core samples are below that. > > > >"These deposits are thought to originate from large volumes of > >magmatic, highly saline aqueous fluids under pressure. Multiple stages > >of brecciation related to explosive fluid pressure release from the > >upper parts of small intrusions result in deposition of ore and gangue > >minerals in crosscutting fractures, veinlets and > >breccias in the outer carapace of the intrusions and in associated > >country rocks. > >Incursion of meteoric water during waning stages of the magmatic-hydrothermal > >system may result in late alteration of the host rocks, but does not > >play a significant role in the ore-forming process (Sinclair, 1995)." > > > > > >http://www.adanacmoly.com/album_detail.php?album_id=1 > > > >Thanks. > > > >Grant Johnston, Chico, CA > >-- > > -- > Thomas Yancey > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rpr at heidelberg.edu Sun Sep 3 16:15:57 2006 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Sun Sep 3 16:16:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Contact for Dr. Kenneth J. Brock (Emeritus) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Check out Min Rec 24:6, pp. 451-461, 470. I think you'll find it covers a lot of the same territory. Cheers, Pete >Would someone have contact information for Dr. Kenneth J. Brock >(Emeritus)? >Ken retired from Indiana University Northwest and has not been seen >there for a while. >His former secretary does not share/have his home information. > >I am searching for a copy and possible updates to his 1991 >presentation on "A Computer Analysis of Goldschmidt's Calcite >drawings using SHAPE", at the 18th Rochester Mineralogical Symposium? > >Johan Maertens >mineral dot maertens at att dot net > >Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? >Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at >http://www.minerant.org >Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite >Collectors Association >Visit http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- R. Peter Richards rpr@mail.heidelberg.edu Mineral collector Crystallographer SHAPE for the Macintosh From j&gcornish at tenforward.com Mon Sep 4 06:51:05 2006 From: j&gcornish at tenforward.com (John and Gloria Cornish) Date: Mon Sep 4 06:53:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad--- John Cornish Minerals in Denver Message-ID: <44FC2F49.3070907@tenforward.com> Hi Everyone, Just a quick note, an invitation actually, I'm out the door and would like to invite all of you to come visit me at the big Denver Show from September 11th - 17th. I'll be down on the first floor in my own room, number 107, and it would be great to meet some of you should you be attending. I'll have my Idaho Rat's Nest heulandites and my Summer Storm quartz after apophyllite pseudomorphs as well as an incredible assortment of World materials. I'm really looking forward to the show and hope the opportunity arises that you can come by and say hello! All the very best everyone, be safe in your travels! John PS I've two papers more or less completed, one on the Crater Rock Museum of Central Point, Oregon and the other of my experiences collecting at Petersen Mountain earlier this Summer, both will be released upon my return. From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Sep 4 22:16:57 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Sep 4 22:17:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ad--- John Cornish Minerals in Denver Message-ID: <090520060516.5568.44FD084800038B71000015C0216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi John, You forgot to say explicitly (probably assuming anyone who will be there, would know this, which they probably indeed would), that you will be in room 107 AT THE HOLIDAY INN, as opposed to the "main" Denver Show at the Merchandise Mart (which has neither 3-digit room numbers nor more than one floor). See you there, Pete -------------- Original message from John and Gloria Cornish : -------------- > Hi Everyone, > > Just a quick note, an invitation actually, I'm out the door and would > like to invite all of you to come visit me at the big Denver Show from > September 11th - 17th. I'll be down on the first floor in my own room, > number 107, and it would be great to meet some of you should you be > attending. I'll have my Idaho Rat's Nest heulandites and my Summer Storm > quartz after apophyllite pseudomorphs as well as an incredible > assortment of World materials. I'm really looking forward to the show > and hope the opportunity arises that you can come by and say hello! All > the very best everyone, be safe in your travels! > > John > > PS I've two papers more or less completed, one on the Crater Rock > Museum of Central Point, Oregon and the other of my experiences > collecting at Petersen Mountain earlier this Summer, both will be > released upon my return. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Sep 4 22:33:19 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Sep 4 22:33:22 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] meteoric water? Message-ID: <090520060533.12645.44FD0C1D000E230F00003165216037631607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Grant, et al., As it happens, a book I just finished reading had a nice little statement relating to the origin of this & related terms; so I'll quote it here, as I was thinking of mentioning this book to the Rockhounds list anyway because others may be interested in it, so, I will do both! The book is "Melting the Earth, the History of Ideas on Volcanic Eruptions", by Haraldur Sigurdsson (a noted volcanologist, originally from Iceland); 1999, Oxford University Press, hardcover, 260 p. For anyone who is interested in this topic, I found this a very interesting and enjoyable book to read; it covers the history of scientists (such as they were) trying to understand what volcanoes are and why they erupt, from Pliny the Elder in Roman times to plate tectonics. A lot of it is a good study in how misconceptions arise and get passed on as "truth", such as the hypothesis, around for many centuries, that volcanoes "burned" because they contained quantities of sulfur, bitumen, or coal. The cover lists a price of $30, but I haven't checked what's available online; I happened to find my copy at a used bookstore. And here is what this book had to say about Aristotle and meteorites--expanding on what Don referred us to in Wikipedia: "Aristotle, on the other hand, claimed that meteorites were formed on Earth, but had been carried aloft by a strong wind and subsequently fallen back to Earth. It was on the basis of his idea that such stones were connected with the science of the atmosphere (i.e., meteorology) and hence given their misleading name." Pete Modreski -------------- Original message from "Grant Johnston" : -------------- > Thanks to all of you. I read that paragraph and, not understanding > what meteoric water meant, I became curious about why it was even > included in the report. In the proper context, it does add to the > report. > > Grant > > On 9/3/06, Thomas Yancey wrote: > > Meteoric water is the term used to indicate rainfall water; as in > > meteorology. It means rainfall that seeps into the ground and becomes > > ground water, that interacts with other waters. In geologic studies > > the term meteoric applies to water that is different from magmatic > > waters or saline waters that are trapped in sediments when deposited > > in marine basins. There is a chemical difference in waters that has > > an influence on the composition of minerals forming in subsurface > > deposits. > > > > T. Yancey > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Tue Sep 5 06:07:30 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Tue Sep 5 06:07:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] There may be a dinosaur waiting for you. Message-ID: <06326ff3b18073a4c1c6608497ee56fc@comcast.net> In todays Toronto Globe and Mail. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060904.wdinos0904/ BNStory/Science/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp From JHODEL at wvdep.org Tue Sep 5 06:53:37 2006 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Tue Sep 5 06:53:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trapped in Quarry - painted into a corner Message-ID: Alan, Enjoyed the brief story about the collector who "painted" himself into a corner - that's hilarious. Truly an idiot not to notice which piece of the wall he was blasting. Which quarry was it, if that's not too nosy? The Midwest Friend of Mineralogy had a great weekend symposium, although one quarry visit got rained on, it was windy too and I got so cold I had to take my wet shirt off and get into the truck to warm up. The hotel Saturday night was somewhat shabby, and the nightclub was dedicated to the loudest DJ hiphop music imaginable, so getting together to discuss rocks after the presentations was impossible. Actually, the last presentation was interfered with by the "music" nearby. Fortunately, our room was far enough away that the sounds didn't bother our sleep. Details later if possible. JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From SHMM at sussexonline.com Tue Sep 5 08:17:02 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Tue Sep 5 08:21:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] meteoric water? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004e01c6d0fe$57374b70$237b1540@D3JM7W21> Hi Grant and list, I just got back in town and found the question about meteoric water had already been answered accurately and thoroughly, but I should add that there is such a thing as meteoritic water (note the extra syllable) that refers to water contained in meteorites. The distinction between meteoric and meteoritic water can sure be confusing until someone explains it to you, but it makes a lot of sense. Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Grant Johnston Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 5:24 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] meteoric water? Thanks to all of you. I read that paragraph and, not understanding what meteoric water meant, I became curious about why it was even included in the report. In the proper context, it does add to the report. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From libawc at emory.edu Tue Sep 5 16:51:03 2006 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita D. Westlake) Date: Tue Sep 5 16:51:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: bumper stickers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00c501c6d146$28aefb70$0aa18caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> I saw a bumper sticker awhile ago that said: "Meet me behind the big rock. I'm a little boulder there." Or how 'bout: "I may be gneiss, but don't take me for granite". I have a button that says "Stop Plate Tectonics" but every time I wear it, I get the weirdest looks! Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Turner Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 7:03 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: bumper stickers They sell all those types of bumper stickers at geological society meetings and conferences. I'll try to find one of the companies that sells them. My other favorites are "stop plate tectonics", "strip mining prevents forest fires," and "evolve or die (with a picture of a trilobite)". I've seen t-shirts, bumper stickers, and magnets with all these sayings. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA >From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: It has to be mined {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Dugway UT trip report} >Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:53:11 -0400 > >The Mineral Information Institute (mii.org) has the poster for "if it >can't be grown, it has to be mined". > >The Society for Mining, Metallurgy and Exploration (smenet.org) used to >sell the t-shirt in their bookstore. > >I've seen many references to the bumper sticker, but I have yet to find >anyone that sells them. I think you will have to have it custom made. > >Kreigh > > > > > >DonH wrote: > > > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > > John McLaughlin wrote: > > > > > > CafePress.com has "Earth First, we'll strip mine the other planets > > > later" t-shirts for sale. Just go to the website and search for 'strip > > > mine'. > > > > That's cool except I wouldn't wear it because the addition of the word > > "strip" adds a dimension I don't want to project; but I can't find one > > that just says "we'll mine the other planets later." What I really want > > is the bumper sticker or t-shirt that says "if it can't be grown, it has > > to be mined," but I can't find that either. My web search skills must > > be getting worse. > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Sep 5 17:26:57 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Sep 5 17:26:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trapped in Quarry - painted into a corner References: Message-ID: <004d01c6d14b$29f6cb70$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> J.R. It was the Irvington Quarry. I think "blasted into a corner" is more accurate. One of these years I work with some central KY folks and organize a FM symposium around the Central KY Fluorspar District. My plate is pretty full for the moment. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J.R. Hodel" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 9:53 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Trapped in Quarry - painted into a corner > Alan, > > Enjoyed the brief story about the collector who "painted" himself into > a corner - that's hilarious. Truly an idiot not to notice which piece > of the wall he was blasting. > > Which quarry was it, if that's not too nosy? > > The Midwest Friend of Mineralogy had a great weekend symposium, > although one quarry visit got rained on, it was windy too and I got so > cold I had to take my wet shirt off and get into the truck to warm up. > The hotel Saturday night was somewhat shabby, and the nightclub was > dedicated to the loudest DJ hiphop music imaginable, so getting together > to discuss rocks after the presentations was impossible. > > Actually, the last presentation was interfered with by the "music" > nearby. Fortunately, our room was far enough away that the sounds > didn't bother our sleep. > > Details later if possible. > > JR > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Sep 5 18:02:45 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Sep 5 18:02:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Slik 14" Slab and Trim Saw Message-ID: <7aac8040609051802n1201d9et1f07c4df9f3531cc@mail.gmail.com> A friend of mine just bought a Slik 14" saw. The only information that I have found on the internet is from Kreigh's site, and it pertains to "An unidentified manufacturer made the *Slik* tumbler in Joshua Tree, California in the late 1950's and early 1960's that had a hexagonal barrel." Does anyone else have any other information about this saw? Thanks, Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Tue Sep 5 18:18:58 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Tue Sep 5 18:19:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: bumper stickers References: <00c501c6d146$28aefb70$0aa18caa@genlibad.library.emory.edu> Message-ID: <005501c6d152$6f1d1c20$6400a8c0@hppav> I have a "Reunite Pangaea" T-shirt Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita D. Westlake" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 7:51 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] RE: bumper stickers >I saw a bumper sticker awhile ago that said: > > "Meet me behind the big rock. I'm a little boulder there." > Or how 'bout: > "I may be gneiss, but don't take me for granite". > > I have a button that says "Stop Plate Tectonics" but every time I wear it, > I > get the weirdest looks! > > Anita > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Turner > Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 7:03 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: bumper stickers > > They sell all those types of bumper stickers at geological society > meetings > and conferences. I'll try to find one of the companies that sells them. > My > > other favorites are "stop plate tectonics", "strip mining prevents forest > fires," and "evolve or die (with a picture of a trilobite)". I've seen > t-shirts, bumper stickers, and magnets with all these sayings. > > Andrew Turner > Victorville, CA > > >>From: Kreigh Tomaszewski >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>Subject: It has to be mined {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Dugway UT trip report} >>Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:53:11 -0400 >> >>The Mineral Information Institute (mii.org) has the poster for "if it >>can't be grown, it has to be mined". >> >>The Society for Mining, Metallurgy and Exploration (smenet.org) used to >>sell the t-shirt in their bookstore. >> >>I've seen many references to the bumper sticker, but I have yet to find >>anyone that sells them. I think you will have to have it custom made. >> >>Kreigh >> >> >> >> >> >>DonH wrote: >> > >> > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> > >> > > John McLaughlin wrote: >> > > >> > > CafePress.com has "Earth First, we'll strip mine the other planets >> > > later" t-shirts for sale. Just go to the website and search for >> > > 'strip >> > > mine'. >> > > > > >> > That's cool except I wouldn't wear it because the addition of the word >> > "strip" adds a dimension I don't want to project; but I can't find one >> > that just says "we'll mine the other planets later." What I really >> > want >> > is the bumper sticker or t-shirt that says "if it can't be grown, it >> > has >> > to be mined," but I can't find that either. My web search skills must >> > be getting worse. >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From info at agatesfromargentina.com Tue Sep 5 18:33:45 2006 From: info at agatesfromargentina.com (AGATES from ARGENTINA) Date: Tue Sep 5 18:33:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] John Cornish Message-ID: <000801c6d154$8012c690$30ede7c9@xp3gigapro> Dear John and Gloria Cornish , we wish you the best of luck at your Denver Show . Ricardo & Claudia Birnie Argentina --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 5 19:36:11 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 5 19:35:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Slik 14" Slab and Trim Saw References: <7aac8040609051802n1201d9et1f07c4df9f3531cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44FE33FC.FCC@Tomaszewski.net> I am as interested as Drew is in responses about who made 'Slik' equipment. I knew about their tumbler, but a saw is new to me; they also sold tumbling grit and polish under the 'Slik' name (I actually have a few unopened containers on my supply shelf). BTW, if you know of any lapidary equipment manufacturer details missing from my website, please let me know. Thanks! Kreigh Drew wrote: > > A friend of mine just bought a Slik 14" saw. The only information that I > have found on the internet is from Kreigh's site, and it pertains to "An > unidentified manufacturer made the *Slik* tumbler in Joshua Tree, California > in the late 1950's and early 1960's that had a hexagonal barrel." > > Does anyone else have any other information about this saw? > > Thanks, > Drew From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Sep 5 20:02:28 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Sep 5 20:02:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Reputable Meteorite Dealer Message-ID: <7aac8040609052002l537b42c8r3691a71d56b0b311@mail.gmail.com> A lady at work asked me today if I knew of any reputable online sellers of meteorites. Her husband is really into astronomy and she wants to start looking for one to buy for him for Christmas. Since I know nothing about meteorites, I thought I'd ask here... does anyone know of any good online meteorite dealers? Thanks, Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Wed Sep 6 00:03:20 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Sep 6 00:03:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Reputable Meteorite Dealer In-Reply-To: <7aac8040609052002l537b42c8r3691a71d56b0b311@mail.gmail.com > References: <7aac8040609052002l537b42c8r3691a71d56b0b311@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060905205608.03ea2930@mail.hawaiiantel.net> I've had good dealings with the following: http://www.meteoritemarket.com Eric Twelker www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com John Birdsell Both places had good photos and info on their websites, the specimens arrived in good time and as advertised, and the two men listed were patient and gave good and prompt answers to my questions. Aloha, Kitty  (tired from recent return from Europe) PS. I've no connections with above sites but being a satisfied customer. At 05:02 PM 9/5/2006, you wrote: A lady at work asked me today if I knew of any reputable online sellers of meteorites. Her husband is really into astronomy and she wants to start looking for one to buy for him for Christmas. Since I know nothing about meteorites, I thought I'd ask here... does anyone know of any good online meteorite dealers? Thanks, Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Sep 6 13:54:20 2006 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Sep 6 13:54:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Nikon D70 In-Reply-To: <44B441BA.4E28@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <009301c6d1f6$a09a8900$6501a8c0@okapi> Someone on the list popped me a note about my Nikon D70 a week or so ago. Clever lad that I am I managed to blow away the note (oh, you should SEE how moving a house a pickup load at a time can turn your brain into mush!). Anyway, could whoever (sorry!!!) pop me an email OFF LIST? Thanks! Gary Brown http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk From teyancey at mail.tca.net Wed Sep 6 17:46:36 2006 From: teyancey at mail.tca.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Wed Sep 6 17:48:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Removing tiny dirt particles In-Reply-To: <44D91842.797C@Tomaszewski.net> References: <44D91842.797C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Does anyone have suggestions on how to remove tiny particles of dirt adhering to very small crystals? I have a sample of offretite from the type locality that has some very small dirt particles nestled among the tiny short prisms of the mineral that coats the surfaces of vesicles in the volcanic rock. The particles are varied and typical dirt material, but the prisms are so small that it is hard to dislodge the particles. They are loosely nestled among the prisms, but a water jet does little to remove them and ultrasonic agitation has been nearly ineffective. It seems that they are being held in place by electostatic attraction forces, which are weak, but strong enough to keep the particles in place because of their small size. Even when loose, these particles tend to cling to any surface. They are easy to dislodge by mechanical poking, but that method tends to break off some of the crystals and is tedious. Dirt that has fallen into mineral lined cavities is a common problem and I'm hoping someone can suggest a method to dislodge the particles that will allow one to float them off. Perhaps collectors who work with micromounts (the offretite crystals are of micromount size) has some experience to share. When one examines crystal groups with a binocular microscope, it appears that many specimens suffer from adhering dirt or dirt nestled among the crystals. Zeolite collectors are certainly aware of this problem, since much material occurs in cavities in basalt. On other samples, I have been quite effective in dislodging dirt from crevices by using insect mounting pins to dislodge dirt, while using a binocular scope to see where the point is going and avoid breaking tiny crystals. Insect mounting pins are very thin and have long sharp tips, making them excellent for mechanical poking at dirt. Or pushing off fibers, etc. However, this is very, very slow work and tedious, if much area needs to be cleaned. Also, a wrong movement can break off crystals and spoil some of the quality of the specimen. Thus, an alternative is desired. Tom Yancey -- Thomas Yancey From tjokela at execulink.com Wed Sep 6 18:17:08 2006 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Wed Sep 6 18:17:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Removing tiny dirt particles References: <44D91842.797C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000d01c6d21b$56e29e40$6400a8c0@Junior> Try canned air, or, to clean a cluster prior to photomicrography, a very, very fine natural paintbrush bristle taped to a bit of balsa for a handle. The long fine animal fur type of bristle found in artists brushes, not the coarse plastic type. Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Yancey" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 8:46 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Removing tiny dirt particles > Does anyone have suggestions on how to remove tiny particles of dirt > adhering to very small crystals? I have a sample of offretite from the > type locality that has some very small dirt particles nestled among the > tiny short prisms of the mineral that coats the surfaces of vesicles in > the volcanic rock. The particles are varied and typical dirt material, but > the prisms are so small that it is hard to dislodge the particles. They > are loosely nestled among the prisms, but a water jet does little to > remove them and ultrasonic agitation has been nearly ineffective. It seems > that they are being held in place by electostatic attraction forces, which > are weak, but strong enough to keep the particles in place because of > their small size. Even when loose, these particles tend to cling to any > surface. They are easy to dislodge by mechanical poking, but that method > tends to break off some of the crystals and is tedious. > > Dirt that has fallen into mineral lined cavities is a common problem and > I'm hoping someone can suggest a method to dislodge the particles that > will allow one to float them off. Perhaps collectors who work with > micromounts (the offretite crystals are of micromount size) has some > experience to share. When one examines crystal groups with a binocular > microscope, it appears that many specimens suffer from adhering dirt or > dirt nestled among the crystals. Zeolite collectors are certainly aware of > this problem, since much material occurs in cavities in basalt. > > On other samples, I have been quite effective in dislodging dirt from > crevices by using insect mounting pins to dislodge dirt, while using a > binocular scope to see where the point is going and avoid breaking tiny > crystals. Insect mounting pins are very thin and have long sharp tips, > making them excellent for mechanical poking at dirt. Or pushing off > fibers, etc. However, this is very, very slow work and tedious, if much > area needs to be cleaned. Also, a wrong movement can break off crystals > and spoil some of the quality of the specimen. Thus, an alternative is > desired. > > Tom Yancey > -- > Thomas Yancey > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 6 18:59:10 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 6 18:55:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Removing tiny dirt particles References: <44D91842.797C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <44FF7C10.4E6A@Tomaszewski.net> Thomas Yancey wrote: > > Does anyone have suggestions on how to remove tiny particles of dirt > adhering to very small crystals? > Tom Yancey Tom, You might try one of the old static guns that were used for cleaning dust off of vinyl records. When you squeezed the trigger they shot a static charge out the front that helped lift dust out of the grooves on the vinyl record. Zerostat from the Discwasher folks is the brand I happen to have on hand. Some caution is needed with delicate crystals as the charge could break them. I have also used a blowpipe hooked up to an aquarium air pump to provide a very fine air stream to blow out small cavities. If you want to suck out the particles, a thin glass tube in the end of some plastic tubing gives you a suction wand. Snake the other end of the tubing into your vacuum cleaner hose a foot or two and secure with some duct tape (but don't block all the normal air flow thru the vacuum or the suction will be too strong). As with any cleaning method, try it first on a less valuable specimen to see if it meets your needs. Kreigh From jemstone at amug.org Wed Sep 6 19:42:53 2006 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Wed Sep 6 19:42:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Removing tiny dirt particles References: <44D91842.797C@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <011801c6d227$518bc5f0$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> Hi Tom, While I can't endorse the following method of cleaning quartz, I loved it when it appeared on this list. It was posted by Mick Cooper in May, 2005. Your post gave me the excuse to resurrect it. For those of you who can't resist a challenge, be sure to closely review your homeowner's insurance prior to trying this method. For their own quaint reasons, many insurance companies will judge this cleaning method unacceptable and may refuse payment. If someone does attempt to use this cleaning method, keep in mind that my real name is Abraham Lincoln. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona The methods described below were developed for cleaning dull galena crystals, but the same principles could easily be modified for cleaning quartz. Mick The old "1-2-3" treatment This is the ultimate macho method for cleaning dirty, dull, or clay-encrusted mineral specimens. Step 1) Hydraulic shot-blasting with a mixture of crushed glass, emery powder, cerium oxide and chromic acid. The glass shards pick out all the grunge in the little crevices, the emery blasts off the oxide coatings, and the cerium oxide gives everything a nice polish. The chromic acid isn't really necessary, but it does give a nice aura of life-threatening danger to the whole process - that stuff will burn its way through almost anything. For that extra frisson this process should take place in a small room with minimal ventilation. Taking your shirt off it recommended to get the full invigorating benefit from the spray. The run-off will have the happy side effect of cleaning out and sterilizing your drains. In the longer term it may sterilize a lot more than just your drains. Medical opinion is divided on this. Step 2) A couple of hours in the family slow cooker with hydrofluoric acid. This is especially recommended if any trace of the original mineral remains after Step One. Make sure your spouse is unaware of this alternative use of the cooker until it's too late. For maximum benefit, prior cancellation of household and personal medical insurance is recommended, though a retainer for a good divorce lawyer is optional. Some observers have noted that this method ignores the notorious looseness of slow cooker lids, which may waste acid by leaking the fumes into the kitchen. If you are concerned by this then a pressure cooker is a good alternative, though to be extra sure it's best to remove the pressure relief valve and replace it with a stainless steel bolt. Be sure to wind the heat up to maximum to ensure the correct pressure is reached before the HF eats its way through the metal and pours all over the wiring. For the ultimate cleaning action a litre of hydrogen peroxide can be quickly poured into the pan before hastily closing the lid. If the worst comes to the worst and the pan explodes all may not be lost since the scouring action of ceiling plaster, as the specimens tear through it at several times the speed of sound, has to be seen to be believed. 3) After reclaiming the specimens from wherever they have fallen (or retrieving them from excited meteorite collectors in the vicinity), wash thoroughly in the dish washer with caustic soda to neutralize all the acid from Steps One and Two. You may have to delay this process for a few days if Step Two resulted in a complete power outage and you're waiting for the electrician you foolishly neglected to book in advance. As a temporary measure you could fill the bath with caustic and soak the remains in there while the wiring is repaired. Make sure you have a few bottles of sulphuric acid to hand to neutralize any stray member of the family who takes a bath in the interim. If the specimens are especially muddy when collected some people prefer to reverse the above processes (the old "3-2-1" method) and do the dishwasher trick first. Be warned, however, that this may delay the subsequent processes if you have to have the drains dug up to clear the compacted mud from them. Sometimes, though, the hydrofluoric acid from Step Two can blast its way through the blockage. It may alternatively blast its way through the entire sewerage system, sometimes taking out your neighbours' systems too. The look on the face of anyone who has never seen this nightmare chemical froth hurtling unexpectedly from the plumbing is something you will remember till your dying day. Though, frankly, this will probably not require much of an effort of memory unless your family and neighbours are unbelievably tolerant. This alternative is especially recommended by accident claim lawyers. To save the trouble, expense and potential litigation of these methods, some collectors recommend the simple expedient of having the specimens chrome plated, mud and all, as soon as you get them home. Alternatively, one can purchase naturally lustrous specimens from another locality and fake the labels. Be warned, however, that there is a suspicion that such methods are unethical. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Yancey" Subject: [Rockhounds] Removing tiny dirt particles > Does anyone have suggestions on how to remove tiny particles of dirt > adhering to very small crystals? > Tom Yancey From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Sep 7 15:43:18 2006 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Sep 7 15:41:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Removing tiny dirt particles References: <200609070100.k8710kPx000485@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00d601c6d2cf$04c4d6f0$6b01a8c0@rock3> Tom, You say that a water jet does not clean out the tiny dirt particles and neither does an ultrasonic cleaner. What kind of water jet are you using? Have you tried a fabric gun and the jet of water or cleaning solution that it produces, to try and clean your material? It has been my experience that if you can't clean dirt off of specimens with this "buzzer gun" that it is unlikely that you are going to be able to clean it off by any other means than very forceful methods. When using this gun (I think they are now selling for less than $100 now for the Chinese made models.) you can adjust the force of the water jet by a knob on the gun but more easily by adjusting the distance from the nozzle to the specimen. You can fire the "jet" of water/cleaning agent against your finger to get a feeling for how strong the jet is at any particular distance form the nozzle. Start with you finger a long way from the nozzle and bring it closer slowly till the force of the jet begins to hurt. Do not put your finger directly in front of the nozzle. People have been known to inject them selves with water and cleaning solvents. These guns are very strong up close. You can try cleaning your specimens at say 18 inches from the nozzle and then check your progress with a microscope. If this does not clean them, try cleaning them at 12 inches and so fourth. You need to be careful, because this gun can generate enough force in the jet to literally blow crystals or crystal fragments right off the specimen. If you are worried about electrostatic charges holding the particles to the offretite you might put a little detergent in the water of the gun before trying to clean the specimens. I don't know how this may effect any electrostatic charges, but it will reduce the surface tension of the water may allow for better cleaning action. We use these fabric guns all the time. It is hard to imagine how we cleaned specimens before we got them. Rock From rockcurrier at cs.com Thu Sep 7 15:43:26 2006 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Thu Sep 7 15:42:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Removing tiny dirt particles References: <200609070100.k8710kPx000485@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00d701c6d2cf$08d926b0$6b01a8c0@rock3> Tom, You say that a water jet does not clean out the tiny dirt particles and neither does an ultrasonic cleaner. What kind of water jet are you using? Have you tried a fabric gun and the jet of water or cleaning solution that it produces, to try and clean your material? It has been my experience that if you can't clean dirt off of specimens with this "buzzer gun" that it is unlikely that you are going to be able to clean it off by any other means than very forceful methods. When using this gun (I think they are now selling for less than $100 now for the Chinese made models.) you can adjust the force of the water jet by a knob on the gun but more easily by adjusting the distance from the nozzle to the specimen. You can fire the "jet" of water/cleaning agent against your finger to get a feeling for how strong the jet is at any particular distance form the nozzle. Start with you finger a long way from the nozzle and bring it closer slowly till the force of the jet begins to hurt. Do not put your finger directly in front of the nozzle. People have been known to inject them selves with water and cleaning solvents. These guns are very strong up close. You can try cleaning your specimens at say 18 inches from the nozzle and then check your progress with a microscope. If this does not clean them, try cleaning them at 12 inches and so fourth. You need to be careful, because this gun can generate enough force in the jet to literally blow crystals or crystal fragments right off the specimen. If you are worried about electrostatic charges holding the particles to the offretite you might put a little detergent in the water of the gun before trying to clean the specimens. I don't know how this may effect any electrostatic charges, but it will reduce the surface tension of the water may allow for better cleaning action. We use these fabric guns all the time. It is hard to imagine how we cleaned specimens before we got them. Rock From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Sep 7 20:47:34 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Sep 7 20:47:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] cleaning house Message-ID: Hello, My wife told me I have to free up some room in my house --- or stop bringing things home. Since it is impossible to leave the house without seeing something that I collect, or that I would like to start collecting, I want to sell the following magazines. I would like to sell them 2 for $1 -- and cheaper if you buy a lot. Shipping via Media Mail is not very expensive. I sent 23 pounds of cookbooks to my daughter in Knoxville for $10.50. Gems & Minerals July 1962 Gems & Minerals Feb. 1969 Gems & Minerals July 1969 Gems & Minerals Nov. 1969 Gems & Minerals Oct. 1978 Rockhound Feb. 1977 Lapidary Journal Oct. 1968 Lapidary Journal Feb. 1977 Lapidary Journal May 1977 Lapidary Journal June 1977 Lapidary Journal Aug. 1977 Lapidary Journal Dec. 1977 Lapidary Journal Jan. 1978 Lapidary Journal Feb. 1978 Lapidary Journal March 1978 Lapidary Journal Aug 1978 Lapidary Journal Sept. 1978 Lapidary Journal Nov. 1978 Lapidary Journal April 1985 Archaeology Nov/Dec. 1997 I also have most Lapidary Journal and Rock & Gem from 1999 to 2005. Make an offer. Grant Johnston, Chico, CA From rocknate at gmail.com Fri Sep 8 08:12:17 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Fri Sep 8 08:12:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorite Collecting Opportunity Message-ID: Hello All, After two previous trips to the Marion, KY area with Alan Goldstein, I have gotten sufficiently interested in the area that I have organized a special Boston Mineral Club field trip to Marion, KY and Cave-in-Rock, IL over the Columbus day weekend. I am able to include up to 30 people on this trip and have about 10 slots left at this time. If any of you on the Rockhounds list sre interested in going please email me off list to get your name added to the list of attendees. Each time I have visited the area I have found interesting material and I am looking forward to the nighttime fluorescent collecting opportunity that we will have this time around. See the additional info below for details on the trip. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA ----------------------------------- Kentucky/Illinois Fluorite Field Trip Saturday thru Monday, October 7th To 9th, 2006 This trip has been confirmed with Bill Frazer in Marion, KY and it will provide field collecting opportunities in both Kentucky and Illinois over the Columbus Day weekend. It also will include visits to both the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY and the American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare, IL to see some of the best fluorite specimens in the world. The trip agenda is as follows: Saturday, 7 October. Meet at 8 AM in the parking lot of the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY. Travel in caravan to a nearby mine area to collect fluorite, "ruby-jack" sphalerite, galena, smithsonite and other minerals from the dumps of several WWII vintage mines located near Marion, KY. We will concentrate our efforts on the Eureka and Columbia Mines where the dumps will have been recently dug to provide us with fresh material to collect. On my most recent trip there in April, the Eureka mine dumps produced by far the best fluorite specimens including dark purple cubes greater than 1" on edge with complex stepped faces. After dinner in Marion, KY we will have special access to the Clement Mineral Museum starting at 7 PM. See their website at http://www.marionkentucky.us/clementmineralmuseum/index.htm to get an idea of the quality of the minerals on display. While we are at the museum people who have brought specimens with them will also have a chance to do some swapping. Sunday, 8 October. We will again meet at 8 AM in the parking lot of the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY. This time however we will drive to the Ohio River, take a small ferry to Cave-in Rock, IL and proceed to collect at the former site of the heavy media mill near Cave-in-Rock. In the afternoon people will have the option of visiting the American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare, IL (open until 4 PM) or collecting at another Illinois fluorite or fossil locality. If there is enough interest I will arrange for a BBQ dinner Sunday evening will feature a nighttime collecting opportunity back in KY for multi-colored fluorescent minerals. Monday, 9 October (Columbus Day). For some this may be a travel day back home but Monday morning and early afternoon will feature additional collecting in KY. We will again meet at 8 AM in the parking lot of the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY and will leave from there to either do additional collecting at the Eureka and Columbia mines or perhaps at another mine near Marion, KY. Around noon we will make a quick visit to the closed Babb/Barnes Fluorite Mill to see the head frame and processing buildings. I plan to leave by 1:30 PM to drive back to Nashville to catch my early evening flight back to Boston. Rules & Guidelines: Come prepared with dump digging tools plus a crack hammer & chisels for splitting rocks and/or trimming specimens. Bring a SW UV light if you want to do fluorescent collecting at night (I will bring both a portable SW UV light and will set up a fluorescent station in my car with a 36W LW/MW/SW light for those who don't have their own equipment). If you plan to fly, collecting buckets (5 gal paint buckets) can be purchased at minimal cost at Home Depot when you get to Nashville. BMC or other AFMLS club membership, signing of the BMC liability release, gloves, eye protection, and sturdy boots are also required. Bug spray and specimen wrapping materials are always a good idea. Bring extra luggage to take specimens back with you but pay attention to your airline's luggage limits. Note that some BMC members plan to drive and we may be able to arrange to send a few heavier tools with them. Travel Issues If you are planning to fly, I recommend flying into Nashville, TN on either Southwest or US Airways. Southwest allows three checked bags at 50 lbs per bag but at this point in time the best fares seem to be on US Airways. You will then need to rent a car for the 126 mile drive up to Marion, KY. For local lodging information, go to the Marion, KY website at http://www.marionkentucky.us/. I have already made my reservation at Myers Bed and Breakfast in Marion ($70/night for 2 people including breakfast & all taxes, cash or check only). Others plan to stay at the Marion Inn. The Royal Guest Inn & Suites is a small motel in town that has changed names and claims to be recently upgraded since I stayed there a couple of years ago so it may be OK if your standards are not too high. Registration: It is important to make your plans now for this trip. Lodging options in Marion, KY are limited and if you plan to fly into Nashville you should make your reservations now to get the best price. If you are interested in the trip Please register with trip-leader Nathan Martin as soon as possible by email at rocknate@gmail.com or by telephone at (781)674-0017. Since we are having excavation work done at the Eureka and Columbia Mines there will be a fee of $40/person for the trip. Note that a portion of this fee also goes to support the Clement Mineral Museum. To reserve your spot on this trip you must confirm your intent to go AND send a check for $40 made out to the Boston Mineral Club no later than 15 September. Mail the check to Boston Mineral Club, c/o Nathan Martin, 8 Elena Road, Lexington, MA 02421-7437. Detailed travel directions from Nashville and updates on the trip agenda will be provided to those who register. I will also provide detailed directions to the collecting sites when we meet on Saturday morning. This is a great chance to see another part of the country, collect some good fluorite specimens, see two interesting mineral museums and generally have a great time. I hope that some of you can come with us From rocknate at gmail.com Fri Sep 8 08:36:37 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Fri Sep 8 08:36:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorite Collecting Opportunity (Typos corrected) Message-ID: Please ignore the last message and read this one with typos corrected. Hello All, After two previous trips to the Marion, KY area with Alan Goldstein, I have gotten sufficiently interested in the area that I have organized a special Boston Mineral Club field trip to Marion, KY and Cave-in-Rock, IL over the Columbus day weekend. I am able to include up to 30 people on this trip and have about 10 slots left at this time. If any of you on the Rockhounds list are interested in going please email me off list to get your name added to the list of attendees. Each time I have visited the area I have found interesting material and I am looking forward to the nighttime fluorescent collecting opportunity that we will have this time around. See the additional info below for details on the trip. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA ----------------------------------- Kentucky/Illinois Fluorite Field Trip Saturday thru Monday, October 7th To 9th, 2006 This trip has been confirmed with Bill Frazer in Marion, KY and it will provide field collecting opportunities in both Kentucky and Illinois over the Columbus Day weekend. It also will include visits to both the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY and the American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare, IL to see some of the best fluorite specimens in the world. The trip agenda is as follows: Saturday, 7 October. Meet at 8 AM in the parking lot of the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY. Travel in caravan to a nearby mine area to collect fluorite, "ruby-jack" sphalerite, galena, smithsonite and other minerals from the dumps of several WWII vintage mines located near Marion, KY. We will concentrate our efforts on the Eureka and Columbia Mines where the dumps will have been recently dug to provide us with fresh material to collect. On my most recent trip there in April, the Eureka mine dumps produced by far the best fluorite specimens including dark purple cubes greater than 1" on edge with complex stepped faces. After dinner in Marion, KY we will have special access to the Clement Mineral Museum starting at 7 PM. See their website at http://www.marionkentucky.us/clementmineralmuseum/index.htm to get an idea of the quality of the minerals on display. While we are at the museum people who have brought specimens with them will also have a chance to do some swapping. Sunday, 8 October. We will again meet at 8 AM in the parking lot of the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY. This time however we will drive to the Ohio River, take a small ferry to Cave-in Rock, IL and proceed to collect at the former site of the heavy media mill near Cave-in-Rock. In the afternoon people will have the option of visiting the American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare, IL (open until 4 PM) or collecting at another Illinois fluorite or fossil locality. If there is enough interest I will arrange for a BBQ dinner Sunday evening back in Marion, KY. After dinner we will provide a nighttime collecting opportunity at the Columbia Mine for multi-colored fluorescent minerals. Monday, 9 October (Columbus Day). For some this may be a travel day back home but Monday morning and early afternoon will feature additional collecting in KY. We will again meet at 8 AM in the parking lot of the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY and will leave from there to either do additional collecting at the Eureka and Columbia mines or perhaps at another mine near Marion, KY. Around noon we will make a quick visit to the closed Babb/Barnes Fluorite Mill to see the head frame and processing buildings. I plan to leave by 1:30 PM to drive back to Nashville to catch my early evening flight back to Boston. Rules & Guidelines: Come prepared with dump digging tools plus a crack hammer & chisels for splitting rocks and/or trimming specimens. Bring a SW UV light if you want to do fluorescent collecting at night (I will bring both a portable SW UV light and will set up a fluorescent station in my car with a 36W LW/MW/SW light for those who don't have their own equipment). If you plan to fly, collecting buckets (5 gal paint buckets) can be purchased at minimal cost at Home Depot when you get to Nashville. BMC or other AFMLS club membership, signing of the BMC liability release, gloves, eye protection, and sturdy boots are also required. Bug spray and specimen wrapping materials are always a good idea. Bring extra luggage to take specimens back with you but pay attention to your airline's luggage limits. Note that some BMC members plan to drive and we may be able to arrange to send a few heavier tools with them. Travel Issues If you are planning to fly, I recommend flying into Nashville, TN on either Southwest or US Airways. Southwest allows three checked bags at 50 lbs per bag but at this point in time the best fares seem to be on US Airways. You will then need to rent a car for the 126 mile drive up to Marion, KY. For local lodging information, go to the Marion, KY website at http://www.marionkentucky.us/. I have already made my reservation at Myers Bed and Breakfast in Marion ($70/night for 2 people including breakfast & all taxes, cash or check only). Others plan to stay at the Marion Inn. The Royal Guest Inn & Suites is a small motel in town that has changed names and claims to be recently upgraded since I stayed there a couple of years ago so it may be OK if your standards are not too high. Registration: It is important to make your plans now for this trip. Lodging options in Marion, KY are limited and if you plan to fly into Nashville you should make your reservations now to get the best price. If you are interested in the trip Please register with trip-leader Nathan Martin as soon as possible by email at rocknate@gmail.com or by telephone at (781)674-0017. Since we are having excavation work done at the Eureka and Columbia Mines there will be a fee of $40/person for the trip. Note that a portion of this fee also goes to support the Clement Mineral Museum. To reserve your spot on this trip you must confirm your intent to go AND send a check for $40 made out to the Boston Mineral Club no later than 20 September. Mail the check to Boston Mineral Club, c/o Nathan Martin, 8 Elena Road, Lexington, MA 02421-7437. Detailed travel directions from Nashville and updates on the trip agenda will be provided to those who register. I will also provide detailed directions to the collecting sites when we meet on Saturday morning. This is a great chance to see another part of the country, collect some good fluorite specimens, see two interesting mineral museums and generally have a great time. I hope that some of you can come with us From rgangue at yahoo.com Fri Sep 8 09:02:53 2006 From: rgangue at yahoo.com (Stan Perry) Date: Fri Sep 8 09:02:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorite Collecting Opportunity (Typos corrected) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060908160253.64098.qmail@web54201.mail.yahoo.com> Nate, I am interested I have to check with my wife to see if I have other duties that weekend. Thanks, Stan Perry --- Nathan Martin wrote: > Please ignore the last message and read this one > with typos corrected. > > Hello All, > > After two previous trips to the Marion, KY area with > Alan Goldstein, I > have gotten sufficiently interested in the area that > I have organized > a special Boston Mineral Club field trip to Marion, > KY and > Cave-in-Rock, IL over the Columbus day weekend. > > I am able to include up to 30 people on this trip > and have about 10 > slots left at > this time. If any of you on the Rockhounds list are > interested in > going please email me off list to get your name > added to the list of > attendees. Each time I have visited the area I have > found interesting > material and I am looking forward to the nighttime > fluorescent > collecting opportunity that we will have this time > around. See the > additional info below for details on the trip. > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > ----------------------------------- > Kentucky/Illinois Fluorite Field Trip > Saturday thru Monday, October 7th To 9th, 2006 > > This trip has been confirmed with Bill Frazer in > Marion, KY and it > will provide field collecting opportunities in both > Kentucky and > Illinois over the Columbus Day weekend. It also > will include visits > to both the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY > and the American > Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare, IL to see some of the > best fluorite > specimens in the world. The trip agenda is as > follows: > > Saturday, 7 October. > Meet at 8 AM in the parking lot of the Clement > Mineral Museum in > Marion, KY. Travel in caravan to a nearby mine > area to collect > fluorite, "ruby-jack" sphalerite, galena, > smithsonite and other > minerals from the dumps of several WWII vintage > mines located near > Marion, KY. We will concentrate our efforts on the > Eureka and > Columbia Mines where the dumps will have been > recently dug to > provide us with fresh material to collect. On my > most recent trip > there in April, the Eureka mine dumps produced by > far the best > fluorite specimens including dark purple cubes > greater than 1" on edge > with complex stepped faces. After dinner in Marion, > KY we will have > special access to the Clement Mineral Museum > starting at 7 PM. See > their website at > http://www.marionkentucky.us/clementmineralmuseum/index.htm > to get an > idea of the quality of the minerals on display. > While we are at the > museum people who have brought specimens with them > will also have a > chance to do some swapping. > > Sunday, 8 October. > We will again meet at 8 AM in the parking lot of the > Clement Mineral > Museum in Marion, KY. This time however we will > drive to the Ohio > River, take a small ferry to Cave-in Rock, IL and > proceed to collect > at the former site of the heavy media mill near > Cave-in-Rock. In the > afternoon people will have the option of visiting > the American > Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare, IL (open until 4 PM) > or collecting at > another Illinois fluorite or fossil locality. If > there is enough > interest I will arrange for a BBQ dinner Sunday > evening back in > Marion, KY. After dinner we will provide a > nighttime collecting > opportunity at the Columbia Mine for multi-colored > fluorescent > minerals. > > Monday, 9 October (Columbus Day). > For some this may be a travel day back home but > Monday morning and > early afternoon will feature additional collecting > in KY. We will > again meet at 8 AM in the parking lot of the Clement > Mineral Museum in > Marion, KY and will leave from there to either do > additional > collecting at the Eureka and Columbia mines or > perhaps at another mine > near Marion, KY. Around noon we will make a quick > visit to the closed > Babb/Barnes Fluorite Mill to see the head frame and > processing > buildings. I plan to leave by 1:30 PM to drive back > to Nashville to > catch my early evening flight back to Boston. > > Rules & Guidelines: > > Come prepared with dump digging tools plus a crack > hammer & chisels > for splitting rocks and/or trimming specimens. > Bring a SW UV light if > you want to do fluorescent collecting at night (I > will bring both a > portable SW UV light and will set up a fluorescent > station in my car > with a 36W LW/MW/SW light for those who don't have > their own > equipment). If you plan to fly, collecting buckets > (5 gal paint > buckets) can be purchased at minimal cost at Home > Depot when you get > to Nashville. BMC or other AFMLS club membership, > signing of the BMC > liability release, gloves, eye protection, and > sturdy boots are also > required. Bug spray and specimen wrapping materials > are always a good > idea. Bring extra luggage to take specimens back > with you but pay > attention to your airline's luggage limits. Note > that some BMC > members plan to drive and we may be able to arrange > to send a few > heavier tools with them. > > Travel Issues > > If you are planning to fly, I recommend flying into > Nashville, TN on > either Southwest or US Airways. Southwest allows > three checked bags > at 50 lbs per bag but at this point in time the best > fares seem to be > on US Airways. You will then need to rent a car for > the 126 mile > drive up to Marion, KY. > > For local lodging information, go to the Marion, KY > website at > http://www.marionkentucky.us/. > I have already made my reservation at Myers Bed and > Breakfast in > Marion ($70/night for 2 people including breakfast & > all taxes, cash > or check only). Others plan to stay at the Marion > Inn. The Royal > Guest Inn & Suites is a small motel in town that has > changed names and > claims to be recently upgraded since I stayed there > a couple of years > ago so it may be OK if your standards are not too > high. > > Registration: > > It is important to make your plans now for this > trip. Lodging options > in Marion, KY are limited and if you plan to fly > into Nashville you > should make your reservations now to get the best > price. > If you are interested in the trip Please register > with trip-leader Nathan > Martin as soon as possible by email at > rocknate@gmail.com or by > telephone at (781)674-0017. Since we are having > excavation work done > at the Eureka and Columbia Mines there will be a fee > of $40/person for > the trip. Note that a portion of this fee also goes > to support the > Clement Mineral Museum. To reserve your spot on > this trip you must > === message truncated === Stan Perry Our Gangue Minerals www.emineralshow.com Ebay seller ID rgangue e-mail at rgangue@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Sep 8 19:26:06 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Sep 8 19:26:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Using computer disk drives as earthquake sensors Message-ID: <4502263B.4B73@Tomaszewski.net> The article talks about using computer disk drives as seisomographs... http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/090706-pc-hard-disk-system-warns.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Sep 8 19:42:07 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Sep 8 19:42:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Using computer disk drives as earthquake sensors Message-ID: Nice article Kreigh! And you can see recent quake info at: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/ Glenn > From: Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 22:26:06 -0400> Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Using computer disk drives as earthquake sensors> > The article talks about using computer disk drives as seisomographs...> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/090706-pc-hard-disk-system-warns.html> _________________________________________________________________ Use Messenger to talk to your IM friends, even those on Yahoo! http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionId=7adb59de-a857-45ba-81cc-685ee3e858fe --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sat Sep 9 14:33:56 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Sep 9 14:34:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mid-West Friends of Mineralogy Fall Symposium field trip report Message-ID: <20060909213357.35692.qmail@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi List: I mentioned that Dan and I took part in the Mid-West Friends of Mineralogy September Symposium and Field Trip over the Labor Day weekend. Here's a more detailed report on last weekend's expedition. Ernie Carlson arranged for participating members to have permission to visit 4 different active quarries in NW Ohio. This would be Dr. Ernest Carson, professor of Geology at Kent State U - all actual geologic information in this field trip report is quoted from Dr. Carson's most excellent compiled handout, or recalled from the symposium presentations! All the events were organized around the Findley Arch, a geologic feature of NW Ohio that is regarded by some to be an extension of the Cincinnati Arch, and to be part of a geologic feature that stretches from Tennessee (think Elmwood mineralization) up into Canada. More about this when I get around to the presentations on Saturday night. Dan and I traveled to near Toledo OH on Friday afternoon, as it was about a 6 hour drive from SW WV to NW Ohio. We spent the night at an EconoLodge, which was acceptable, although the phones didn't work well. We had reservations at Exit 6, and spent an hour looking for that motel, but got directed back to exit 9 where a different Econolodge was able to take care of us. The first quarry was the Sylvania Quarry, an operation of Hanson Aggregates Midwest Inc; we met at the office at 9 am. This quarry is known as a source of well crystalized celestine with occasional calcites. About 25 people showed up, many of whom we met early last spring on the Marion, Ky. Ben Clement Museum Ill/Ky Fluorite District field trip organized by Alan Goldstein. The first thing we got to see was an asphalt bulk plant, with a burner at one end of a big double-walled drum that looked like it was about 75 feet long. The burner looked like about a 42 kazillion BTU output, and sounded it too. Interesting heavy industrial machinery, if you're interested in that kind of thing; I am so I took a couple of photos. The manager, Elena Bailey, met us at the office, and gave us a safety briefing and explaned the rules. Stay away from the highwall and inside the berms. Collect in the piles of broken rock scattered in windrows on the floor of the far end of the quarry. The pit is a couple of hundred feet deep and probably half-a-mile long, and a couple of hundred yards across. Ms Bailey led us in as a convoy, and we were followed by another quarry employee. The old quarry pit is now filled with aggregqate-handling machinery, crushers and sizeing screens, and giant conveyor belts leading to stacks of different sized crushed rock. There's a slot cut into the rock that allows passage into the new pit, and a bridge across the slot to support local traffic on a road on top of the rock wall between the two pits. A large conveyor passes from the new pit up to the old pit on one side of the slot opening, and traffic from one pit to the other is one lane beside the conveyor supports. Active mining was at the other (south) end of the pit from the collecting area. I'm glad to report that everyone followed the safety instructions, and collecting was nearly without bloodshed. A few minor scratches from sharply formed crystals seemed to be the limit. There were small waterfalls from veins of water in the highwall, and a large sump with heavy-duty pumps and large water pipes to keep the working pits dewatered. I've read that historically, at least one very large quarry near Toledo has had to close because of their effect on ground-water supplies. Evidently it became prohibitively expensive for the company to provide replacement water to neighbors who lost their well water, and they closed the mine, which filled with water to become a lake and to replenish the ground water levels. There was every kind of celestine, from large boulders with a variety of massive and crystalline in colors from transparent colorless to bright blue translucent crystals, to sheets of tiny gemmy bright colorless crystals on a contrasting dark matrix. Dr. Nelson Shaffer, of the Indiana Geologic Survey, recovered many specimens of this material with delicate rock work, and left the last piece on the boulder for me to try my much less experienced hand at. Thanks, Nelson! Everyone was friendly, outgoing and generous with their expertise and their rocks. If you admired someone's success, they were as likely to offer you a piece as to say thank you. Dan and I worked to move a very large (and Heavy!) boulder covered on top with numerous thumb-sized celestine crystals from opaque to translucent white and blue with a few small gold calcites. This rock was slilghtly larger than Dan and I could safely pick up and move. It was lying in the middle of a large pile of very large boulders, and we moved it a few inches at a time to the edge of the pile, and then brought the Ranger tailgate right up to the pile, and slid the boulder into the truck. I did pinch my thumb a little, but not badly enough to result in a painful blood blister or anything. I hope to have room to move it indoors once the multi-purpose building is under roof later this fall. Right now it's beside the turn-around at the end of the driveway as the world's best yard rock. I also helped Dan with a couple of large vuggy boulders he picked out for later litho-reduction at home. The Sylvania quarry is so prolific everyone got a lot of desirable material. We met again at the quarry office to check out, and to express our gratitude to management for allowing us the opportunity. This quarry is of Middle Devonian age and contains rocks from the Detroit River Group. The second quarry was the Genoa, Ohio Graymont Dolime quarry, also well-known for celestine, but also yielding rare small attractive sphalerites, brown fluorites, irridescent pyrites and, rarely, cubes of galena. We were met by Gary Elliot of Greymont Dolime. He was very helpful and friendly, and was ever present during our visit, even as we spread out to various sites in the large quarry. This quarry exposes the Lockport Dolomite, and mostly produces agricultural products and industrial materials where dolomite is useful. While the weather was great at the Sylvania Quarry, by early afternoon the cloudy skies had started to rain, and the wind picked up too. I was totally unprepared for chilly conditions, after a long, hot, dry summer, I forgot completely about the need to have water-resistant gear. This quarry was so prolific that almost every boulder had vugs, most completely filled so as to show up as white spots, but others partially filled and showing nice crystals. I did recover several nice spears of celestine before getting so chilled I had to take off my soaked tee-shirt and get into the truck to warm up. Most others had rain-gear and persisted far along after I gave up. I was pretty tired, too, so that may have had something to do with it. We had a 90 mile drive to Lima, Oh, where the presentations were scheduled, as well as the Sunday field trips. The Best-Valu motel, just a couple exits outside Lima, was the site of the presentations, first a discussion of Ohio mineralogical occurances by Joe Vasichko, followed by a similar presentation by George Simmons on the mineralization of the Findlay Arch. Mr Simmons made the point that this whole geologic feature was perhaps a failed rift valley from way back, and that this rifting may have been responsible for many important mineralization events from the Tri-State district to interesting mine sites in Canada. We had hoped to be able to discuss the presentations and the quarries after the formal meeting in the bar, but it turned out to host a VERY loud DJ spinning modern hip-hop style music, and so discussion was impossible. We adjourned to our room, had a beer, and got to bed early, to be ready for the third field trip on Sunday morning, to the Suever Stone Company Quarry in Delphos, Ohio. This quarry turned out to have a unique condition in my experience - the mineralized vugs were filled with a thick liquid asphalt - the Findley Arch area is also a oil patch, and the petroleum evidently migrated up into the openings in the dark gray featurless bedrock. This quarry exposes the Late Silurian Tymochee Dolomite and overlying rocks of the Salina Group. The rock is shaly gray dolostone, pretty bland and featureless compared to many sites we've collected at. We had to wait a while at the gate of this quarry, and eventually one of the group of collectors who knew the manager went to get the keys and to learn the rules we had to work under. When he got back, we had a brief safety meeting, decided how long this trip would last, and went into the pit. The practical way to identify an interesting piece of rock was to look for a rock covered with tar. It was impossible to keep the asphalt off your hands or your tools, which frustrated some folks who were inclined to be fussy about personal cleanliness. I was OK with it, as I've had far worse things to deal with than asphalt tar, living on a farm with pigs and chickens! The problem was that with tar all over the insides of the vugs, it was tough (impossible!) to tell which vugs were showing interesting crystalization and which ones were just full of lumps of tar. The vugs are potentially lined with pyrite, calcite and fluorite. We wrapped every rock with newspaper to try to control the tar and keep it from getting all over the bed of the truck and the other rocks. We wound up collecting from the same pile Joe Vasichko and his dad were working on top of, and I learned a lot from watching this experienced pair of rock hounds as they methodically broke very large boulders (covered with tar, remember) into smaller rocks with lots of vugs showing. They had a couple of tools which were quite useful for two-man work. Since Dan and I collect together often, I gotta get me some of those tools!! It was at this quarry I admired a little sphalerite Paul collected at the Genoa Graymont Dolime quarry. He wound up giving it to me, in a generous gesture that I was really impressed with. What a nice guy! Everyone on these trips was generous with advice, teaching less experienced collectors how best to go about things, demonstrating techniques, and sharing successful discoveries with fellow collectors. I really appreciate all the field experience these guys shared with us! The 4th trip on Sunday afternoon was to a very similar quarry nearby, so we decided to break for home at the end of the first quarry of the day. We drove south on I-75 to Dayton, and then took US 35 nearly all the way home; 35 ends in St. Albans where it meets US 60 just 15 miles north of my home. I seem to have survived the heavy lifting without any harm, and Dan has been soaking the rocks from the Suever Stone quarry in kerosene all week. I hope this report isn't too long, but there was a lot of action in just 3 days. My next field trip will be with Martha, and will emphasize birding on a barrier island on the SE coast over Columbus Day next month. She's been very patient as Dan and I have done rock trips all summer, and deserves to select the next destination... ;-) Hi Kitty, welconm back from Europe. You need to write a field trip report on that trip!! Is Axel really a nice guy, or is that an act he does via email? Just kidding, Axel!! And what about Pluto...how did Bill vote? I was so thrilled to know someone who was there so I could ask what else happened that was actually science...?? Keep on Rockin' everybody! JR in WV --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger?s low PC-to-Phone call rates. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com Sat Sep 9 19:26:13 2006 From: bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com (Joe Mulvey) Date: Sat Sep 9 19:26:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mid-West Friends of Mineralogy Fall Symposium Message-ID: <20060910022613.81842.qmail@web51513.mail.yahoo.com> Hi J.R., Excellent trip report! Thank you. May I ask what tools benefit a two-person team? Thanks! Joe --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From JHODEL at wvdep.org Mon Sep 11 06:29:24 2006 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Mon Sep 11 06:29:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2-man team Message-ID: Hi Joe: They had a big hammer like tool that had a sharp cutting face, one guy holds it while the other strikes it with a seriously heavy sledge hammer. You would want to be experienced to use the rig, but it enabled them to reduce really big boulders into carriable collectable pieces quickly and with good control. They did a great job and shared their expertise with everyone who was the least bit curious. Everyone seems outgoing and helpful, a great bunch to meet to collect with. JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Sep 11 07:40:11 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Sep 11 07:40:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Price list update and field trip report Message-ID: <20060911144011.62207.qmail@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'll be updating my website www.sauktown.com in a short time.The complete report on my field trip to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is included, in addition to the new additions to the price list. These include material from Kazakhstan, Australia, China and South Africa. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mineral.maertens at att.net Mon Sep 11 19:27:07 2006 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan Maertens) Date: Mon Sep 11 19:31:41 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Humor: Pyrites of the Caribbean In-Reply-To: <200609110101.k8B10otq023654@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: All right someone beat me to put my expression in a cartoon: See at http://www.grimmy.com/images/MGG_Archive/MGG_2006/MGG0911.gif Johan Maertens mineral dot maertens at att dot net Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite Collectors Association Visit http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Sep 11 20:12:24 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Sep 11 20:09:53 2006 Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Humor: Pyrites of the Caribbean References: Message-ID: <450624F0.5FD6@Tomaszewski.net> I wish I could claim it as original, but Laurie Kern is my source... It's Halloween night and the doorbells rings. Three little ones are asked by the old fellow what they are. The little girl says, "I'm a Princess" The little boy says, "I'm a ghost" The third kid is wearing a box painted gold with other smaller boxes stuck to it, also painted gold. "And what in the world are you?" the man says. "I'm a pyrite.....Arrrggggg!" Cheers! Kreigh Johan Maertens wrote: > > All right someone beat me to put my expression in a cartoon: > > See at http://www.grimmy.com/images/MGG_Archive/MGG_2006/MGG0911.gif > > Johan Maertens From tam2819 at cox.net Mon Sep 11 20:19:51 2006 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Mon Sep 11 20:19:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Written in Sadness Message-ID: <3AA8B3B6-FD80-42D8-8A87-394ACCC0FD4D@cox.net> Subject: Losing a Legend It is with great sadness and many tears that I write this. Many years ago, I was attending a Rock and Mineral Fair/Show, at the Fairgrounds in Ventura, California. While there, I was astounded by a gent demonstrating Roman Chin making. I sat entranced at the ease with which he constructed this beautiful chain. I took his card and set it aside. Segue forward to 1991, when I moved into San Diego County. In earlier years, I had gotten very involved with Rocks and Minerals, Field Trips, Bead Societies, and Silversmithing. When I arrived in Oceanside, I needed to find a Rock and Mineral Club, and remembered that long ago meeting, as that gent was from Vista, the adjacent community. I reacquainted myself with Jerry Harr and his lovely wife Lois. Under his guidance, I joined the Vista Gem and Mineral Society. I was able to study both Lapidary and Silversmithing under the tutelage of Jerry. I found Jerry to be an excellent instructor. He dug, cut, formed his own cabachons, and faceted self collected gems. His skills were incredible. There came an opportunity to submit an individual to the Rockhound and Lapidary Hall of Fame, I suggested to the Board of Vista Gem and Mineral that Jerry Harr be that individual. The rest is history, Jerry is in the Lapidary Hall of Fame in Murdo, South Dakota for 1996. Jerry has been diagnosed with terminal cancer and is in Hospice. This all started with back pain August 10th, and then led to hospital where further evaluation found cancer in the spine, lungs, liver, literally all over. He was discharged into Hospice and will remain there to the end. Lois is being her usual faithful, caring, loving wife, always there with Jerry. Jerry is very heavily sedated due to the pain level. He drifts in and out, and is aware. He is accepting of his path, and will go when called. Lois is in the saddest time of her life and can use all the friendship available to her. They both would appreciate prayers and good wishes. The location for Jerry is, Pleasant Care of Vista, 247 E. Bobier Dr. Vista 92084. The phone number is (760) 945-5731, Their home address is, 1010 E. Bobier Dr, Vista 92084, phone number is (760) 724-0395. I hope you can get word out to those who know and love Jerry, I know hearing from folks is very heartening to both of them. Terrie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Mon Sep 11 22:26:21 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Mon Sep 11 22:26:21 2006 Subject: OT Re: [Rockhounds] Humor: Pyrites of the Caribbean References: <450624F0.5FD6@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000a01c6d62b$fc7dd2c0$b8f8f604@TheBlackAdder> Kreigh, You made Laurie's day, and mine too; I just showed her your email. We'd forgotten about her Halloween story. And a hearty Aaargghhhhh to you, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 8:12 PM Subject: OT: Re: [Rockhounds] Humor: Pyrites of the Caribbean I wish I could claim it as original, but Laurie Kern is my source... It's Halloween night and the doorbells rings. Three little ones are asked by the old fellow what they are. The little girl says, "I'm a Princess" The little boy says, "I'm a ghost" The third kid is wearing a box painted gold with other smaller boxes stuck to it, also painted gold. "And what in the world are you?" the man says. "I'm a pyrite.....Arrrggggg!" Cheers! Kreigh Johan Maertens wrote: > > All right someone beat me to put my expression in a cartoon: > > See at http://www.grimmy.com/images/MGG_Archive/MGG_2006/MGG0911.gif > > Johan Maertens -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gene at fossilnut.com Tue Sep 12 05:15:40 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Tue Sep 12 05:15:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Harrisburg PA Show this Weekend Message-ID: <00eb01c6d665$2bec5f70$6400a8c0@hppav> The 41st Central Pennsylvania Rock and Mineral Club (Harrisburg Show) is this weekend. It is at a new location Time: Sept 16 & 17 Sat 10 to 6 and Sunday 10 to 5 Location : Central Dauphin Millde School Locust Lane and S Houcks Rd. , Harrisburg, PA Check out their web site for more info. http://www.rockandmineral.org/annualshow.htm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Sep 12 10:27:30 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Sep 12 10:27:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] The Denver Gem and Mineral Show starts Friday! Message-ID: <200609121727.k8CHRPQw013031@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Hi all, I just wanted to remind everyone that the Denver Gem and Mineral Show (the "main" or "club" show) is starting this Friday, Sept. 15th and goes through Sunday. This year's theme is "Minerals of South America". If you are in the area, we would love to see you! Please check out the website for Show details. Many pages on the website have been revamped in the last couple months (e.g. the "Events", "About the Exhibits", "Dealers" and "Exhibitors" pages, to name a few), so there is much more information on there than last year. Regards, Bob Loeffler Dealer Chairman and Webmaster Denver Gem and Mineral Show Dealers@DenverMineralShow.com http://www.DenverMineralShow.com From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Sep 12 16:05:43 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Sep 12 16:05:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteors down under Message-ID: Two stories on meteors in Oz and NZ NZ Meteor Meteor over western Australia (last Dec.) BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Sep 12 16:26:01 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Sep 12 16:25:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Falls Fossil Festival Message-ID: <002201c6d6c2$cf8f91d0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> This weekend is the 12th Falls Fossil Festival at the Falls of the Ohio State Park in Clarksville, Indiana. Rather than go into great detail, I will direct you to our web site with a complete program: www.fallsoftheohio.org/fossil_festival.shtml Presentations this year include: the Mazon Creek fauna, nautiloids & ammonoids, pyrite-replaced fossils, trace fossils, fossil collecting techniques and fossil identification. We have a good selection of vendors, two fossil collecting piles courtesy Hanson Aggregates, and opportunities to explore the fossil beds with guides or on-your-own. I have a temporary exhibit called "The Nature of Shells" which covers the 600 million year history of shells creatures (it is up through Nov. 26). The weather forecast is great (for the 12th year in a row)! Regards, Alan Goldstein --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Tue Sep 12 19:02:57 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Tue Sep 12 19:03:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite slabs Message-ID: I've been meaning to ask how people on this list feel about the tiny slabs of meteorite that I see being sold at web sites? I don't collect meteorites but if I ever found one I wouldn't want it cut up in little slabs and sold by the gram. I don't have any problem with cutting one to show the Widmanst?tten shapes but totally destroying one to increase the profit just doesn't sound responsible. Any opinions out there? (That's a dumb question :-)), opinions are like noses.) Grant From minnesota_pebble_pup at yahoo.com Tue Sep 12 19:44:32 2006 From: minnesota_pebble_pup at yahoo.com (minnesota_pebble_pup) Date: Tue Sep 12 19:44:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite slabs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060913024432.24503.qmail@web32615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I would say that to cut or not to cut is the owner's preference. However, having been under the impression that true meteorites are so rare, I would wonder why anyone would want to cut them. It would seem more fitting to preserve them in their natural state. Jonna --- Grant Johnston wrote: > I've been meaning to ask how people on this list > feel about the tiny > slabs of meteorite that I see being sold at web > sites? I don't collect > meteorites but if I ever found one I wouldn't want > it cut up in little > slabs and sold by the gram. > > I don't have any problem with cutting one to show > the Widmanst?tten > shapes but totally destroying one to increase the > profit just doesn't > sound responsible. > > Any opinions out there? > > (That's a dumb question :-)), opinions are like > noses.) > > Grant > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 12 20:09:26 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 12 20:09:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite slabs References: Message-ID: <45077660.26AE@Tomaszewski.net> Grant, It is quite common for large meteorites to have part of them slabbed off so the find can be shared with many researchers and museums. Some of this material reaches the market to fund further research, or acquisitions, or to pay for the acquisition. Some finds end up going directly to commercial trade. These are often sliced up in various sizes to maximize profit for the dealer that purchased the find. Without dealers most of us would never have a meteorite (or part of one) in our collection. Kreigh Grant Johnston wrote: > > I've been meaning to ask how people on this list feel about the tiny > slabs of meteorite that I see being sold at web sites? I don't collect > meteorites but if I ever found one I wouldn't want it cut up in little > slabs and sold by the gram. > > I don't have any problem with cutting one to show the Widmanst?tten > shapes but totally destroying one to increase the profit just doesn't > sound responsible. > > Any opinions out there? > > (That's a dumb question :-)), opinions are like noses.) > > Grant From tjokela at execulink.com Tue Sep 12 20:51:39 2006 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Tue Sep 12 20:53:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite slabs References: <20060913024432.24503.qmail@web32615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001c01c6d6e7$eafee2c0$6400a8c0@Junior> Er, a lot of meteorites aren't that rare at all. Found by the hundreds of kilo's, if not by the ton, in some areas. Cutting a meteorite doesn't totally destroy it by any means; you just go from an ugly brown lump to an ugly brown slab, big deal. Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Great minerals for sale: http://www.element51.com The minerals of Ontario: http://www.ontariominerals.com Minerals through the microscope: http://www.micromounts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "minnesota_pebble_pup" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Meteorite slabs I would say that to cut or not to cut is the owner's preference. However, having been under the impression that true meteorites are so rare, I would wonder why anyone would want to cut them. It would seem more fitting to preserve them in their natural state. Jonna --- Grant Johnston wrote: > I've been meaning to ask how people on this list > feel about the tiny > slabs of meteorite that I see being sold at web > sites? I don't collect > meteorites but if I ever found one I wouldn't want > it cut up in little > slabs and sold by the gram. > > I don't have any problem with cutting one to show > the Widmanst?tten > shapes but totally destroying one to increase the > profit just doesn't > sound responsible. > > Any opinions out there? > > (That's a dumb question :-)), opinions are like > noses.) > > Grant > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From SHMM at sussexonline.com Wed Sep 13 07:57:13 2006 From: SHMM at sussexonline.com (Earl Verbeek) Date: Wed Sep 13 07:57:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite slabs In-Reply-To: <45077660.26AE@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000001c6d744$e6717120$9e6a1540@D3JM7W21> Hi Grant, You've already received some good answers on your question, but here are a couple more observations and considerations: In a legal sense, of course, a specimen owner can do anything he or she wishes with a given specimen. However, our responsibility doesn't end when the legal requirements are fulfilled: there are moral and societal aspects to specimen ownership as well. These are not codified in any source I know of (though some museum ethics codes come close), and they are the source of endless disagreement among specimen owners. It all comes down to your personal value system, so we're talking more about matters of opinion than of fact. Meteorites, even common ones, tend to have more market value than your average, ordinary, everyday, run-of-the-mill, nothing-special-about-it specimen, so a dealer can often extract more profit from a meteorite by subdividing it than by selling it whole. Also, the internal structure of meteorites, like that of most rocks (remember we're talking rocks here, not crystallized minerals) is best revealed on a cut face, and the outside reveals only a fusion crust. Thus, cutting a meteorite into slabs is viewed by many as beneficial, for it not only reveals the internal beauty and texture of the specimens, but it makes visible its scientific potential as well. However, there are limits. Not many of us would object if meteorites are cut into slabs and sold, but if they?re cut into really tiny pieces so that "everyone can have one", well, there's a line somewhere between being reasonable and being just plain greedy. The subdivision process becomes destructive when the resultant pieces are too small to retain the information contained in the whole. That may seem a bit opaque at first, so let me give you an example: a 1" fragment of a fine-grained granite may show you all the mineralogical and textural detail of a 2-foot block of the same rock, and be just as rich in scientific information and visual detail. However, a 1" fragment of a pegmatitic rock might be almost meaningless since most or all textural detail and mineralogical associations are lost. A similar consideration applies to meteorites. As a hypothetical example, if someone finds a meteorite measuring a foot or so across, which when slabbed reveals troilite nodules spaced about 3" apart in the mass, I'd view it as immoral to cut that meteorite into pieces so small that many of them don't contain troilite at all. Others might feel differently -- I come at these questions from a scientific viewpoint, so any specimen that doesn't preserve information not only on the presence of the troilite nodules, but also their relative abundance (as revealed by their spacing on a sawn surface), is "too small". Much is lost when cutting a meteorite like this into small pieces, and that to me is when "specimen preparation" becomes a destructive practice driven by greed. Others will assuredly disagree; I am simply revealing my own biases here. Cheers- Earl ----------------------------------- Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 973-209-7212 shmm@sussexonline.com Grant Johnston wrote: > > I've been meaning to ask how people on this list feel about the tiny > slabs of meteorite that I see being sold at web sites? I don't collect > meteorites but if I ever found one I wouldn't want it cut up in little > slabs and sold by the gram. > > I don't have any problem with cutting one to show the Widmanst?tten > shapes but totally destroying one to increase the profit just doesn't > sound responsible. > > Any opinions out there? > > (That's a dumb question :-)), opinions are like noses.) > > Grant From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 13 21:25:38 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 13 21:22:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorite slabs References: <000001c6d744$e6717120$9e6a1540@D3JM7W21> Message-ID: <4508D910.3FFE@Tomaszewski.net> Hi Earl, I want a slab of that meteorite showing trilobites in it. Let me know when you find one. ;~} BTW, great example! I can't disagree with you on the need to maintain broad context when dividing specimens; good documentation (and Locality!) for each specimen also helps preserve/increase both scientific and economic value. When archaeologists excavate/study a historic site, they always leave part of the location undisturbed, so that future researchers have the opportunity to use new technology to study the location. As collectors we also can preserve locality and context details for future generations of researchers and collectors. We just need to make sure we leave instructions for disposing of our collections. Kreigh Earl Verbeek wrote: > > Hi Grant, > > You've already received some good answers on your question, but here are a > couple more observations and considerations: > > In a legal sense, of course, a specimen owner can do anything he or she > wishes with a given specimen. However, our responsibility doesn't end when > the legal requirements are fulfilled: there are moral and societal aspects > to specimen ownership as well. These are not codified in any source I know > of (though some museum ethics codes come close), and they are the source of > endless disagreement among specimen owners. It all comes down to your > personal value system, so we're talking more about matters of opinion than > of fact. > > Meteorites, even common ones, tend to have more market value than your > average, ordinary, everyday, run-of-the-mill, nothing-special-about-it > specimen, so a dealer can often extract more profit from a meteorite by > subdividing it than by selling it whole. Also, the internal structure of > meteorites, like that of most rocks (remember we're talking rocks here, not > crystallized minerals) is best revealed on a cut face, and the outside > reveals only a fusion crust. Thus, cutting a meteorite into slabs is viewed > by many as beneficial, for it not only reveals the internal beauty and > texture of the specimens, but it makes visible its scientific potential as > well. > > However, there are limits. Not many of us would object if meteorites are > cut into slabs and sold, but if they?re cut into really tiny pieces so that > "everyone can have one", well, there's a line somewhere between being > reasonable and being just plain greedy. The subdivision process becomes > destructive when the resultant pieces are too small to retain the > information contained in the whole. That may seem a bit opaque at first, so > let me give you an example: a 1" fragment of a fine-grained granite may > show you all the mineralogical and textural detail of a 2-foot block of the > same rock, and be just as rich in scientific information and visual detail. > However, a 1" fragment of a pegmatitic rock might be almost meaningless > since most or all textural detail and mineralogical associations are lost. > > A similar consideration applies to meteorites. As a hypothetical example, > if someone finds a meteorite measuring a foot or so across, which when > slabbed reveals troilite nodules spaced about 3" apart in the mass, I'd view > it as immoral to cut that meteorite into pieces so small that many of them > don't contain troilite at all. Others might feel differently -- I come at > these questions from a scientific viewpoint, so any specimen that doesn't > preserve information not only on the presence of the troilite nodules, but > also their relative abundance (as revealed by their spacing on a sawn > surface), is "too small". Much is lost when cutting a meteorite like this > into small pieces, and that to me is when "specimen preparation" becomes a > destructive practice driven by greed. Others will assuredly disagree; I am > simply revealing my own biases here. > > Cheers- Earl > > ----------------------------------- > Earl R. Verbeek, Resident Geologist > Sterling Hill Mining Museum > 30 Plant St., Ogdensburg, NJ 07439 > 973-209-7212 > shmm@sussexonline.com > > Grant Johnston wrote: > > > > I've been meaning to ask how people on this list feel about the tiny > > slabs of meteorite that I see being sold at web sites? I don't collect > > meteorites but if I ever found one I wouldn't want it cut up in little > > slabs and sold by the gram. > > > > I don't have any problem with cutting one to show the Widmanst?tten > > shapes but totally destroying one to increase the profit just doesn't > > sound responsible. > > > > Any opinions out there? > > > > (That's a dumb question :-)), opinions are like noses.) > > > > Grant > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From johnjold at comcast.net Thu Sep 14 08:12:24 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Thu Sep 14 08:12:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Neanderthal News from Gibralter Message-ID: A new analysis from an old dwelling cave (BBQ) on Gibralter. Includes a summary of early discoveries. John http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/ RTGAM.20060913.wneanAM0913/BNStory/Science/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Thu Sep 14 11:06:09 2006 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Thu Sep 14 11:06:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Meteorite slabs Message-ID: Hi folks, Forgive me my naiivete, but I don't understand the current issue with meteorite use. I'm both a lapidary and a former-and-renewed collector; I began as a collector, then became a professional gemcutter, so my take on things may be different from that of some others. Nevertheless, given that we humans have used everything from found objects to bones to incidental and intentionally smelted metals to tree sap, and even scavenged bits of animal tissue and tendon to adorn ourselves and our homes with, throughout the course of recorded history, I don't see how, why or where there's any basis for contention over the use of meteorite sections for the same. Clearly, ithey possess most, if not all, of the criteria for inclusion in the classic gemstone cavalcade: beauty (in the eyes of many), rarity (relatively), and durability (at least the stony iron or nickel ones). As such, and given that the internal structures so many of them can resemble anything from Damascus steel to stained glass windows, it makes perfect sense to me that interior designers love to display sections along with their agate bookends on mantlepieces, and that jewelry designers like Chris Ploof so often use them alongside the aforementioned steels and/or mokume gane for jewelry purposes. Is there, then, anything so sacrosanct about them that it would preclude them from being used in any form other than their native one? If so, I'm all ears -- or, rather, eyes (here on the internet)! All the best, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com From roughrock at gmail.com Thu Sep 14 11:26:40 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Thu Sep 14 11:26:44 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Meteorite slabs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think Earl gave the standards I was wondering about. I don't think people have the proprietary right to use up something of scientific value, just because they can make more money with it that way. I personally think some things, like the undisturbed portion of a cave floor or other archaeological dig, need to be preserved. I don't want to open up Mesa Verde to pot hunters, even though there are still some pots there. I don't want to see a scientifically valuable meteorite cut into little 1 gram slabs. That's my opinion, just like the thing between my eyes and my mouth is my nose. Everybody is welcome to have their own. Grant From jr50wv at yahoo.com Thu Sep 14 18:22:48 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Thu Sep 14 18:22:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorites - and iron Message-ID: <20060915012248.82855.qmail@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: I have an acquaintance who makes knives, and swords, and things like that. He uses a damascene technique, and heats the metal in a forge, and uses a triphammer to fold the metal over and over. He used to use a regular anvil and hammer, but it soon became obvious that the career wouldn't last too long if he didn't use a more advanced tool to pound metal. His blades are works of art, as surely as a cut stone or cabochon. They have a reputation among smiths, and now he is retired from the oil and gas business to pound steel for a living. I wonder, how long ago was the first blade pounded from iron that fell from the sky? I would be tempted, if I had a pound of iron from the sky, to give it to Herb. Just to see what he'd do with it! Maybe not scientific, but art is part of the culture too... JR --------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Sep 14 18:31:32 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Sep 14 18:31:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorites - and iron References: <20060915012248.82855.qmail@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <016e01c6d866$ad1a17b0$c0089444@michael01> here's a link to some prehistoric uses of meteorites: http://meteoritemag.uark.edu/620.htm also an article about stone tools made out of tektites: http://www.meteoriticalsociety.org/simple_template.cfm?code=resources_infotektites a frien dof mine had once found some Lybia glass stone tools -scrapers- while going through a box of specimens. it seemed to me he said that it was somewhere around 40,000 years old.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" To: Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 7:22 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorites - and iron > Hi: > > I have an acquaintance who makes knives, and swords, and things like that. > He uses a damascene technique, and heats the metal in a forge, and uses a > triphammer to fold the metal over and over. > > He used to use a regular anvil and hammer, but it soon became obvious that > the career wouldn't last too long if he didn't use a more advanced tool to > pound metal. > > His blades are works of art, as surely as a cut stone or cabochon. They > have a reputation among smiths, and now he is retired from the oil and gas > business to pound steel for a living. > > I wonder, how long ago was the first blade pounded from iron that fell > from the sky? > > I would be tempted, if I had a pound of iron from the sky, to give it to > Herb. Just to see what he'd do with it! Maybe not scientific, but art is > part of the culture too... > > JR > > > > --------------------------------- > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small > Business. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From info at agatesfromargentina.com Thu Sep 14 19:19:14 2006 From: info at agatesfromargentina.com (AGATES from ARGENTINA) Date: Thu Sep 14 19:19:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] out of Argentina Message-ID: <001601c6d86d$5828edb0$668172c8@xp3gigapro> Dear Agate collectors : Finally we travelled to the US with Claudia ; just for a week (this trip was postponed twice). Although I have been in the US 6 times , never have been in NYC . It was really astonishing and beautiful buildings all around , but sirens and police everywhere all the time. Next sunday I will travel to San Rafael , and by the end of the month I will be also in Patagonia to re-visit a new agate source and try to find some new agates in a source about 800 kilometers from there ,this is a new place that has never been visited for this purpose , but we heard that there could be something of interest (completely new and unexplored until we get there!!)I will be there during four days, just looking for new agates. There are some signs that new agates could be found (some interesting samples in our hands). Fortunately , weather has calmed down , although it is cold in that new place.NO sirens , no firemen , just peace!! All the best! Ricardo & Claudia Birnie www.agatesfromargentina.com Agates from Argentina --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Sep 14 19:24:59 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Sep 14 19:25:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorites - and iron In-Reply-To: <20060915012248.82855.qmail@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060915012248.82855.qmail@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Scientific American had an article 3 or 4 years ago IIRC about the suspicion that some ancient south asia forged metal included meteoric material, may have been cobalt. BK On 9/14/06, J. R. Hodel wrote: > > Hi: > > I have an acquaintance who makes knives, and swords, and things like > that. He uses a damascene technique, and heats the metal in a forge, and > uses a triphammer to fold the metal over and over. > > He used to use a regular anvil and hammer, but it soon became obvious that > the career wouldn't last too long if he didn't use a more advanced tool to > pound metal. > > His blades are works of art, as surely as a cut stone or cabochon. They > have a reputation among smiths, and now he is retired from the oil and gas > business to pound steel for a living. > > I wonder, how long ago was the first blade pounded from iron that fell > from the sky? > > I would be tempted, if I had a pound of iron from the sky, to give it to > Herb. Just to see what he'd do with it! Maybe not scientific, but art is > part of the culture too... > > JR > > > > --------------------------------- > Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small > Business. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Sep 14 20:25:32 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Sep 14 20:20:07 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Meteorite slabs References: Message-ID: <450A1BDB.BF8@Tomaszewski.net> Douglas, Your question celebrates the diversity of our shared rockhounding hobby. Rockhounding ranges from hard sciences (mineralogy, crystallography, geology, etc) to soft aesthetics (lapidary, jewelry, pretty crystals, etc); if it can't be grown, it has to be mined -- rockhounds are interested in anything not grown, and what to do with it. The issue is striking a balance between science, aesthetics, and costs. Kreigh Douglas Turet wrote: > > Hi folks, > > Forgive me my naiivete, but I don't understand the current issue with > meteorite use. I'm both a lapidary and a former-and-renewed collector; I > began as a collector, then became a professional gemcutter, so my take on > things may be different from that of some others. Nevertheless, given that > we humans have used everything from found objects to bones to incidental and > intentionally smelted metals to tree sap, and even scavenged bits of animal > tissue and tendon to adorn ourselves and our homes with, throughout the > course of recorded history, I don't see how, why or where there's any basis > for contention over the use of meteorite sections for the same. Clearly, > ithey possess most, if not all, of the criteria for inclusion in the classic > gemstone cavalcade: beauty (in the eyes of many), rarity (relatively), and > durability (at least the stony iron or nickel ones). As such, and given that > the internal structures so many of them can resemble anything from Damascus > steel to stained glass windows, it makes perfect sense to me that interior > designers love to display sections along with their agate bookends on > mantlepieces, and that jewelry designers like Chris Ploof so often use them > alongside the aforementioned steels and/or mokume gane for jewelry purposes. > Is there, then, anything so sacrosanct about them that it would > preclude them from being used in any form other than their native one? If > so, I'm all ears -- or, rather, eyes (here on the internet)! > > All the best, > Doug > > Douglas Turet, GJ > Turet Design, LLC > P. O. Box 242 > Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. > Tel. (508) 586-5690 > Fax: (508) 586-5677 > Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at att.net Thu Sep 14 20:53:24 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Thu Sep 14 20:55:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Meteorite slabs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:26:40 -0700, "Grant Johnston" wrote: >I think Earl gave the standards I was wondering about. I don't think >people have the proprietary right to use up something of scientific >value, just because they can make more money with it that way. An interesting subject. Why are meteorites of scientific value? I have a vague notion of interesting things that have been learned about outer space in the past. Are there still questions that can be answered by further study? What will we learn from the next ton of meteoric matter that we couldn't learn from the last ton? (Serious question - I'm not trying to be confrontational, just curious.) > >I personally think some things, like the undisturbed portion of a cave >floor or other archaeological dig, need to be preserved. > >I don't want to open up Mesa Verde to pot hunters, even though there >are still some pots there. Hmm... I'd tend to agree with that, but I don't think it's a good analogy. > I don't want to see a scientifically >valuable meteorite cut into little 1 gram slabs. I won't argue the conclusion, but I'm curious about the premise. Is each and every meteorite scientifically valuable? > >That's my opinion, just like the thing between my eyes and my mouth is >my nose. Everybody is welcome to have their own. > >Grant -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Sep 15 16:49:11 2006 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Sep 15 16:49:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorites - and iron References: <20060915012248.82855.qmail@web56302.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <016e01c6d866$ad1a17b0$c0089444@michael01> Message-ID: <000a01c6d921$8b231c40$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> The Louisville Science Center has a cold chisel made of an iron-nickel metoerite from Livingston Co., KY. Part of the Troost collection, it dates from the early 19th century. It was on display for years, but I cannot recall whether it is still out. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schmidt" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Meteorites - and iron > here's a link to some prehistoric uses of meteorites: > > http://meteoritemag.uark.edu/620.htm > > also an article about stone tools made out of tektites: > > http://www.meteoriticalsociety.org/simple_template.cfm?code=resources_infotektites > > a frien dof mine had once found some Lybia glass stone tools -scrapers- > while going through a box of specimens. it seemed to me he said that it > was somewhere around 40,000 years old.... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J. R. Hodel" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 7:22 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Meteorites - and iron > > >> Hi: >> >> I have an acquaintance who makes knives, and swords, and things like >> that. He uses a damascene technique, and heats the metal in a forge, and >> uses a triphammer to fold the metal over and over. >> >> He used to use a regular anvil and hammer, but it soon became obvious >> that the career wouldn't last too long if he didn't use a more advanced >> tool to pound metal. >> >> His blades are works of art, as surely as a cut stone or cabochon. They >> have a reputation among smiths, and now he is retired from the oil and >> gas business to pound steel for a living. >> >> I wonder, how long ago was the first blade pounded from iron that fell >> from the sky? >> >> I would be tempted, if I had a pound of iron from the sky, to give it to >> Herb. Just to see what he'd do with it! Maybe not scientific, but art >> is part of the culture too... >> >> JR >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small >> Business. >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Fri Sep 15 17:43:48 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Fri Sep 15 17:44:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mazon creek Message-ID: <067901c6d929$30ef8d50$c0089444@michael01> Hello I am looking for a VERY good example of a tully monster for a local university. Does anyone have one they would like to sell, or have a lead on where I could find one? Any help would be appreciated. thanks Michael --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sun Sep 17 13:51:55 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sun Sep 17 13:51:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mazon creek Message-ID: Google led me to this site with tully monster info. http://www.isgs.uiuc.edu/servs/pubs/geobits-pub/geobit5/geobit5.html Glenn > Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:43:48 -0600> From: dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: [Rockhounds] mazon creek> > Hello> > I am looking for a VERY good example of a tully monster for a local university.> > Does anyone have one they would like to sell, or have a lead on where I could find one?> > Any help would be appreciated.> > thanks> > Michael> _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Sep 17 15:21:48 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Sep 17 15:21:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mazon creek References: Message-ID: <000601c6daa7$ab309800$c0089444@michael01> ok...so how does that help me in terms of buying one??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: "Michael Schmidt" Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 2:51 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] mazon creek Google led me to this site with tully monster info. http://www.isgs.uiuc.edu/servs/pubs/geobits-pub/geobit5/geobit5.html Glenn > Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:43:48 -0600> From: dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca> To: > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: [Rockhounds] mazon creek> > Hello> > > I am looking for a VERY good example of a tully monster for a local > university.> > Does anyone have one they would like to sell, or have a > lead on where I could find one?> > Any help would be appreciated.> > > thanks> > Michael> _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 17 18:47:12 2006 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun Sep 17 18:47:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mazon creek In-Reply-To: <000601c6daa7$ab309800$c0089444@michael01> Message-ID: <20060918014712.4497.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> --- Michael Schmidt wrote: > ok...so how does that help me in terms of buying > one??? and also: "Any help" would be appreciated.> > thanks> > Michael> For a personality that knows everything, it is hardly concievable that he doesn't know about the several specimens-- plus the 3D 1:1 scale Museum model on Ebay since he asked for assistance. Nor of the certain seller who sells Mazon Creek exclusivley. Oops have the auctions closed already? Perhaps the "University" would do better conducting business for themselves. The response to Glenn perhaps is why so few dare step up and risk wrath. I didn't mention those specimens on EBay earlier because I wanted a deserving buyer to get them. Some will consider this a personal attack but, in addition to pointing out sources it is commentary about the loss of cooperation when one's responses are routinely rude. Put me in the penalty box if you must. I've lost the inclination to be a Gentleman when I see unprovoked rudeness, Glenn you always have been a Gentleman. The concept isn't even in the other guy's lexicon. , Elton From tim at orerockon.com Sun Sep 17 19:50:24 2006 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Sep 17 19:50:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mazon creek In-Reply-To: <20060918014712.4497.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> References: <000601c6daa7$ab309800$c0089444@michael01> <20060918014712.4497.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060917194820.03a69fd0@orerockon.com> Yes, I do consider it a personal attack, and you obviously did know better than to post it to this list, but you did it anyway. Attack people in private, if that's your bag. I guess the moderators are letting this garbage through again...sigh... At 06:47 PM 9/17/2006, you wrote: >--- Michael Schmidt wrote: > > > ok...so how does that help me in terms of buying > > one??? >and also: "Any help" would be appreciated.> > thanks> > > Michael> > >For a personality that knows everything, it is hardly >concievable that he doesn't know about the several >specimens-- plus the 3D 1:1 scale Museum model on Ebay >since he asked for assistance. Nor of the certain >seller who sells Mazon Creek exclusivley. Oops have >the auctions closed already? Perhaps the "University" >would do better conducting business for themselves. > >The response to Glenn perhaps is why so few dare step >up and risk wrath. I didn't mention those specimens >on EBay earlier because I wanted a deserving buyer to >get them. > >Some will consider this a personal attack but, in >addition to pointing out sources it is commentary >about the loss of cooperation when one's responses are >routinely rude. Put me in the penalty box if you must. > I've lost the inclination to be a Gentleman when I >see unprovoked rudeness, Glenn you always have been a >Gentleman. The concept isn't even in the other guy's >lexicon. > >, >Elton Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Sun Sep 17 19:58:06 2006 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Sun Sep 17 19:58:14 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] North Carolina collecting sites Message-ID: Hi gang, My wife and I caught the tail end of a Travel Channel show on the gems of Franklin, NC, last night, that featured a suice-trough-and-bucket-brigade setup at a place called The Sheffield Mine. And although every so-called "NC Ruby" I've ever seen or cut for a customer has been about as sanguinely red as the stuff from Mysore, India, we couldn't help but wonder if either this spot or one of its Cowee Valley neighbors might be a good way to build some memories for our little girl, who's developed quite an interest in her daddy's hobby. I haven't been down to that neck of the woods since a trio to the Big Crabtree mine in 1975 or '6, so I'm wondering if any of you have, and can recommend a location or two that merit investigation. I'm not looking for anything resembling hard rock mining, at this stage of the game, since she'll only be three and a half, but she and I are as enthralled with digging in the dirt for pretty pebbles as her mom is about avoiding the stuff, so if we could find a way to combine attractions on a drive down there, I think we could all come out ahead. By the way, if anyone knows of sites in either the SF or Moneterey Bay areas, that'd be appreciated, too, since we have family out there. Many thanks and best regards, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Sep 17 20:11:14 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Sun Sep 17 20:12:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mazon creek References: <20060918014712.4497.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004d01c6dad0$19e63d90$c0089444@michael01> MrEMan I posted a letter to the list asking if anyone knew where I could BUY a Mazon Creek Tully monster. I thought I was quite clear about that, because none of the other people who responded to my request seemed to be under the misapprehension that I was looking for information on Tully monsters. I am looking for one to purchase. Had someone have emailed me saying there was one on EBAy, I would have checked out the link and said :thanks! that;s great", or "thanks anyway, but that's not what I'm after, etc". however, I wasn't emailed that. I was emailed a link to a university/museum website that provided scientific information that I am already aware of. No where on the page is there any listing about specimens for sale. If Glen had emailed back saying something about thinking I was looking for info, I would have said "nope...looking for a specimen, but thanks anyway". Had I have been told about someone on EBAY who exclusively sells Mazon Creek material, I would have sent I already contacted him. I posted my specimen request to the list knowing that there are 2 or 3 mazon Creek collectors on it. It never ceases to amaze me how people like you can take a simply put question and turn it into the rudest statement ever to enter cyberspace. Not everything is as you perceive it. odd, how my comment "this helps me how?" is demonstrative of so much wrath. I think it's just all in your head. Just like your assertion that "I know everything". I never said that...I simply asked if someone on the list knew where I could BUY a tully monster. I guess it's my fault for not being more precise and saying "any information about where I could buy a specimen would be greatly appreciated'. I am an extremely polite person. what you perceive as rudeness is, to me, a simple question. How does scientific information on a fossil material help me to acquire that specimen? Had Glen have emailed me back and said that it didn't, and it was just info, I would have better understood what he sent me...instead of thinking that there was something there about specimens for sale I wasn't seeing. Your opinionated response to me was infinitely more rude, and demonstrated that, unfortunately, that web site helps me not at all in buying a specimen. Interesting reading, but not what I am looking for. Sorry, but if I need to be so diplomatic in phrasing a simple sentence so not to offend the delicate sensibilities of people such as yourself, then I guess I will just have to live with your disdain. I wouldn't have been insulted by my response, as there was no insult intended. However, Glenn, if you were slighted or offended in any way, I will gladly offer an apology as that was not my intent. But for Mr. Man.....there's just not enough time in the day..... Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mazon creek > --- Michael Schmidt wrote: > >> ok...so how does that help me in terms of buying >> one??? > and also: "Any help" would be appreciated.> > thanks> >> Michael> > > For a personality that knows everything, it is hardly > concievable that he doesn't know about the several > specimens-- plus the 3D 1:1 scale Museum model on Ebay > since he asked for assistance. Nor of the certain > seller who sells Mazon Creek exclusivley. Oops have > the auctions closed already? Perhaps the "University" > would do better conducting business for themselves. > > The response to Glenn perhaps is why so few dare step > up and risk wrath. I didn't mention those specimens > on EBay earlier because I wanted a deserving buyer to > get them. > > Some will consider this a personal attack but, in > addition to pointing out sources it is commentary > about the loss of cooperation when one's responses are > routinely rude. Put me in the penalty box if you must. > I've lost the inclination to be a Gentleman when I > see unprovoked rudeness, Glenn you always have been a > Gentleman. The concept isn't even in the other guy's > lexicon. > > , > Elton > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sun Sep 17 21:01:20 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Sep 17 21:01:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] moderators (was) mazon creek In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060917194820.03a69fd0@orerockon.com> References: <000601c6daa7$ab309800$c0089444@michael01> <20060918014712.4497.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060917194820.03a69fd0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060917170003.03729790@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Tim and everyone: This List has an administration team, not moderators. Moderation means that every single message is read carefully before it is posted, and we do not do that on a regular basis, because of the huge numbers of members and postings. We put the List on moderation for a short period only if it is absolutely necessary. We rely on people to follow the rules of normal courtesy, as well as those posted for the Rockhounds List (on the List Home Page as shown at the bottom of each posting, then click on "List Use Policy"). For the most part this works, and often when one List member is rude, the rest of the membership simply ignores it or deals with it off-List. However, we Admin Team members do our best to keep on top of what goes on, and often you don't see our response to a problem because we handle it by contacting the individual(s) off-List. Also (as I've said before) we are volunteers, not employees. In fact, we pay the expenses involved to keep the List operating, and we all have other "real" jobs. We thank the majority of you for your cooperation, and urge everyone to be patient with each other, and with us.. Aloha, Kitty [Admin Team Member] At 04:50 PM 9/17/2006, Tim Fisher wrote: > Attack people in private, if that's your bag. I guess the >moderators are letting this garbage through again...sigh... From fossilnut at verizon.net Mon Sep 18 04:14:29 2006 From: fossilnut at verizon.net (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Mon Sep 18 04:14:56 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mazon creek References: <000601c6daa7$ab309800$c0089444@michael01> <20060918014712.4497.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20060917194820.03a69fd0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <010101c6db13$9cc75ad0$6400a8c0@hppav> Relative to the seller on E-Bay, Michael asked for a "very good" specimen. I took Michael's request to be for a complete specimen with clear spade shaped tail, prominent eye bar with pigmented eyes and a proboscis with the teeth showing. An outstanding specimen would also have included color banding on the tail and would have been a large specimen. While I'm not totally ruling this out, the fellow on E-bay who sells Mazon Creek almost exclusively, has rarely put up anything that in my personal opinion rates as "very good", at least among the more rare material. I had gone on the assumption that Michael, who is clearly familiar with E-Bay, would have already tried to contact that fellow and see if there was a specimen that had not been put up for sale. There are other E-Bay sellers who sell upper end material elsewhere and could potentially have one. Good Mazon Creek material is not easy to come by. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE From gene at fossilnut.com Mon Sep 18 04:17:09 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Mon Sep 18 04:17:19 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mazon Creek Message-ID: <011101c6db13$fc225d90$6400a8c0@hppav> Relative to the seller on E-Bay, Michael asked for a "very good" specimen. I took Michael's request to be for a complete specimen with clear spade shaped tail, prominent eye bar with pigmented eyes and a proboscis with the teeth showing. An outstanding specimen would also have included color banding on the tail and would have been a large specimen. While I'm not totally ruling this out, the fellow on E-bay who sells Mazon Creek almost exclusively, has rarely put up anything that in my personal opinion rates as "very good", at least among the more rare material. I had gone on the assumption that Michael, who is clearly familiar with E-Bay, would have already tried to contact that fellow and see if there was a specimen that had not been put up for sale. There are other E-Bay sellers who sell upper end material elsewhere and could potentially have one. Good Mazon Creek material is not easy to come by. Even the picture on the museum page was not a "very good" one. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Mon Sep 18 04:57:25 2006 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Mon Sep 18 04:57:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mazon Creek References: <011101c6db13$fc225d90$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: <009101c6db19$9bffb650$c0089444@michael01> and Gene, FYI, Cliff Glasser (the EBAY guy) did send me a photo of a fairly good specimen last week...just really over priced thanks Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "EUGENE HARTSTEIN" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:17 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Mazon Creek Relative to the seller on E-Bay, Michael asked for a "very good" specimen. I took Michael's request to be for a complete specimen with clear spade shaped tail, prominent eye bar with pigmented eyes and a proboscis with the teeth showing. An outstanding specimen would also have included color banding on the tail and would have been a large specimen. While I'm not totally ruling this out, the fellow on E-bay who sells Mazon Creek almost exclusively, has rarely put up anything that in my personal opinion rates as "very good", at least among the more rare material. I had gone on the assumption that Michael, who is clearly familiar with E-Bay, would have already tried to contact that fellow and see if there was a specimen that had not been put up for sale. There are other E-Bay sellers who sell upper end material elsewhere and could potentially have one. Good Mazon Creek material is not easy to come by. Even the picture on the museum page was not a "very good" one. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Sep 18 13:25:55 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Sep 18 13:25:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] WAS mazon creek Message-ID: Michael and all: As a rank amateur fossil nut, I found it interesting to look up the subject specimen and try to learn a bit more about the creature. Then I thought others might like to see what Google revealed. I really also thought this might be helpful in some small way to help find Michael a nice Tully, i.e. someone might just see the article and realize they have one or more in a box their grandpa or grandma gave them... Also, I took no personal offense at Michael's reply, and, as my wife will surely attest, I am quite capable of responding for myself if I feel the need. Soooo... let's lighten up and continue to share and learn. Personally I'm learning an awful lot of interesting stuff on this list, and if there is something I'm not interested in, my delete key works every time! Glenn {:={))) From: dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca ok...so how does that help me in terms of buying one??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: "Michael Schmidt" rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Google led me to this site with tully monster info. http://www.isgs.uiuc.edu/servs/pubs/geobits-pub/geobit5/geobit5.html Glenn Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 18:43:48 -0600 From: dmichaelschmidt@shaw.ca I am looking for a VERY good example of a tully monster for a local university. Does anyone have one they would like to sell, or have a lead on where I could find one? Any help would be appreciated. thanks Michael _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Mon Sep 18 16:11:08 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Mon Sep 18 16:11:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] North Carolina collecting sites References: Message-ID: <014a01c6db77$ba316bb0$f51171ce@marilyn> I went to the Sheiffield mine early this year and found one large about 5 grams and several small less than a gram NC rubys and had a good time. I know they are NC rubys not salted material as I found them in washed out gullies not the buckets. I went through two buckets and found a couple of small rubies. The people were nice and the fee resonable and much different than other sites I went to (Hiddenite) the buckets were from the area and not salted I would recommend them. All the best. Steve Keep on Rockin. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Turet" To: Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 8:58 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] North Carolina collecting sites > Hi gang, > > My wife and I caught the tail end of a Travel Channel show on the gems > of Franklin, NC, last night, that featured a > suice-trough-and-bucket-brigade setup at a place called The Sheffield > Mine. And although every so-called "NC Ruby" I've ever seen or cut for a > customer has been about as sanguinely red as the stuff from Mysore, India, > we couldn't help but wonder if either this spot or one of its Cowee Valley > neighbors might be a good way to build some memories for our little girl, > who's developed quite an interest in her daddy's hobby. I haven't been > down to that neck of the woods since a trio to the Big Crabtree mine in > 1975 or '6, so I'm wondering if any of you have, and can recommend a > location or two that merit investigation. I'm not looking for anything > resembling hard rock mining, at this stage of the game, since she'll only > be three and a half, but she and I are as enthralled with digging in the > dirt for pretty pebbles as her mom is about avoiding the stuff, so if we > could find a way to combine attractions on a drive down there, I think we > could all come out ahead. > By the way, if anyone knows of sites in either the SF or Moneterey Bay > areas, that'd be appreciated, too, since we have family out there. > > > Many thanks and best regards, > Doug > > Douglas Turet, GJ > Turet Design, LLC > P. O. Box 242 > Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. > Tel. (508) 586-5690 > Fax: (508) 586-5677 > Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From geenet2 at mchsi.com Mon Sep 18 21:00:55 2006 From: geenet2 at mchsi.com (geenet2@mchsi.com) Date: Mon Sep 18 21:00:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] WAS mazon creek Message-ID: <091920060400.7874.450F6B76000DD75200001EC2219792676103010CD2079C080C03BFCD9B0A020A0A09@mchsi.com> Well said, and I for one wondered what the %&* was a "Tully monster" so I appreciated the link. Jeanette > As a rank amateur fossil nut, I found it interesting to look up the subject > specimen and try to learn a bit more about the creature. > > Then I thought others might like to see what Google revealed. > From jr50wv at yahoo.com Tue Sep 19 05:03:56 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Tue Sep 19 05:04:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mazon creek fossils and collecting Message-ID: <20060919120356.56188.qmail@web56311.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi guys, So is there still any collecting around Mazon Creek, Ill? I understand that the strip mining spoil piles have probably been reclaimed, but the hills that weren't mined (? if there were any) might still have creek beds with nodules in them... I'm more in touch with mineral/crystal collectors, but I never turned down a chance to collect interesting marine fossils... Thanks in advance, JR PS, I've said this before, but don't mind repeating myself. E-Mail is different from talking face to face, or even on the phone, because there are missing cues, both verbal and visual, that we are conditioned to expect by years of learning to talk to receive and use to add to the words being passed along. It is easy, in the absence of these visual and verbal cues, to misunderstand an otherwise simple communication. Sometimes a person under stress of some unrelated nature can leap to a conclusion that isn't justified by the words, because they have assumed that a cue exists that tends them in the worng direction. Don't jump to the worst possible conclusion, lest you look silly in retrospect, when no one else reaches the conclusion you did. Always look for the best interpretation until the other guy makes it unmistakable what he means. Usually when someone intends to be insulting or rude, by the second or third exchange there is no mistaking it. In the most recent exchange, I don't think anyone intended to be insulting or rude. I can't type any more because my kitten keeps climbing up me and I need to go to work. KoR everyone! JR --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 19 07:13:10 2006 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Sep 19 07:13:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mazon creek fossils and collecting In-Reply-To: <20060919120356.56188.qmail@web56311.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20060919141310.17842.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "J. R. Hodel" wrote: Hi guys, So is there still any collecting around Mazon Creek, Ill? I understand that the strip mining spoil piles have probably been reclaimed, but the hills that weren't mined (? if there were any) might still have creek beds with nodules in them... I'm more in touch with mineral/crystal collectors, but I never turned down a chance to collect interesting marine fossils... Thanks in advance, JR Yes, there still is collecting going on. ESCONI, a local club in the area that I belong to has field trips there. I don't have personal knowledge, being more of a mineral person, but you could get more info from their website www.esconi.org Jim Daly --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Tue Sep 19 07:41:05 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Tue Sep 19 07:41:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mazon creek fossils and collecting In-Reply-To: <20060919141310.17842.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060919120356.56188.qmail@web56311.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <20060919141310.17842.qmail@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: J.R. >From the info on their website at http://www.esconi.org/FieldTrips/ESCONI_Field_Trips-2006.htm It looks like you just missed the trip they ran last weekend to collect from old spoil piles. At least this confirms that there are still active collecting going on. Thanks for the link Jim! best regards, Nate Martin On 9/19/06, Jim Daly wrote: > > > "J. R. Hodel" wrote: Hi guys, > > So is there still any collecting around Mazon Creek, Ill? > > I understand that the strip mining spoil piles have probably been reclaimed, but the hills that weren't mined (? if there were any) might still have creek beds with nodules in them... > > I'm more in touch with mineral/crystal collectors, but I never turned down a chance to collect interesting marine fossils... > > Thanks in advance, > JR > Yes, there still is collecting going on. ESCONI, a local club in the area that I belong to has field trips there. I don't have personal knowledge, being more of a mineral person, but you could get more info from their website www.esconi.org > Jim Daly > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From johnjold at comcast.net Wed Sep 20 23:34:09 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Wed Sep 20 23:34:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oldest humanoid child fossil Message-ID: At 3.3 million years old it is 10 times older than the previous record holder. Very complete article. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/21/science/21child.html? _r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Sep 22 07:42:08 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Sep 22 07:42:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Test Message-ID: Just a test...I'm not getting any mail yet today... Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather&FORM=WLMTAG --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Fri Sep 22 07:47:58 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Fri Sep 22 07:48:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7aac8040609220747j24dbab58rface73eec6a38276@mail.gmail.com> It is just very quiet... Maybe everyone is off digging somewhere! Drew On 9/22/06, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > Just a test...I'm not getting any mail yet today... > Glenn > _________________________________________________________________ > Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now! > http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather&FORM=WLMTAG > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bg at his.com Fri Sep 22 12:36:36 2006 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Fri Sep 22 12:36:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal Message-ID: <1fbb02181deac253e60c6dbb355d4340@his.com> can anyone point me to a website, book or article about bubble opal from utah? if not, locality anyone? or anything else? thanks, cathy From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Sep 22 13:34:31 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Sep 22 13:34:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Test Message-ID: I hope that is the case...I have gotten a few emails and yours (obviously). Jeanette is leaving Utah now after a visit and some digging... Keep on Rockin'!!!Thanks for the post. Glenn From: dr00bert@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Test It is just very quiet... Maybe everyone is off digging somewhere! Drew _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Fri Sep 22 13:40:43 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Fri Sep 22 13:40:46 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Test In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7aac8040609221340v2922a207y179e256e9029910f@mail.gmail.com> I plan on digging some tomorrow, if'n it doesn't rain (or maybe if it doesn't rain hard!). Hopefully I will have some finds to talk about on Monday! Drew On 9/22/06, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > I hope that is the case...I have gotten a few emails and yours > (obviously). > > Jeanette is leaving Utah now after a visit and some digging... > > Keep on Rockin'!!!Thanks for the post. > Glenn > > From: dr00bert@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Test It is just very > quiet... Maybe everyone is off digging somewhere! Drew > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces > http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Fri Sep 22 17:14:56 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Fri Sep 22 17:15:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal In-Reply-To: <1fbb02181deac253e60c6dbb355d4340@his.com> References: <1fbb02181deac253e60c6dbb355d4340@his.com> Message-ID: There are some photos here. Not much info but good pics. http://www.opalopal.com/showandtell.htm On 9/22/06, Catherine Gaber wrote: > can anyone point me to a website, book or article about bubble opal > from utah? if not, locality anyone? or anything else? > > thanks, cathy > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Sep 22 18:15:40 2006 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri Sep 22 18:15:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060923011540.17829.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> Hello Cathy I haven't had time to google it but I have also heard this referred to as "bacon" or "bacon rind" opal. The photos from the site Grant posted are appear to be the same material as I seen called such. EJ From smtravis at plateautel.net Fri Sep 22 20:47:31 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Fri Sep 22 20:47:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal References: <1fbb02181deac253e60c6dbb355d4340@his.com> Message-ID: <003d01c6dec2$ffbd1000$f51171ce@marilyn> There is an article about in in a 62 lapidary Journal I think Ill look it up and give you the date and location. Keep on Rockin Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Catherine Gaber" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal > can anyone point me to a website, book or article about bubble opal from > utah? if not, locality anyone? or anything else? > > thanks, cathy > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jlkelly1066 at iglide.net Sat Sep 23 05:43:28 2006 From: jlkelly1066 at iglide.net (jlkelly1066) Date: Sat Sep 23 05:43:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Opal Message-ID: <45152bf0.64.4527.2630@iglide.net> Glenn Regarding Jeanette, Don't worry, as you know she was with Carol and I. Had a marvelous time wandering around the Moab area of Utah. That woman does love to pick up rock! Hope she had fun, we sure did. Shucks, I was half way through my second mudhole before I realized we didn't have 4 wheel drive anymore. My rock lady was ready to get out and push (knee deep mud!) until I got the silly thing going . What a woman. Regarding the Utah "Bubble" opal. The pics look more like "Tiffany Stone," AKA Bertrandite and a little Picasso Marble or "Picasso Opal" as some are beginning to call it. The "Only" opal site I am aware of, except for some "opalized" wood down toward Escalante, is the Milford deposit which, while pretty is NOT stabilized and can hardly be worked into any decent size cab. Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. Ya'll have a great day. Oh, by the way, we got snow in Utah down to 6,000 feet. I am definitely NOT ready for this. JL Kelly From pjmodreski at att.net Sat Sep 23 06:59:53 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sat Sep 23 06:59:58 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal Message-ID: <092320061359.28521.45153DD800050D5700006F69216037596407059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Live and learn, I'd never heard of "Utah bubble opal" before. So, where in Utah is the bubble opal from? The pictures on that website Grant pointed to look like bubbly coatings of hyalite opal; I'm guessing that this kind of opal doesn't actually have any fire, is that correct? Some of the specimens; and when I've seen samples before labelled "Tiffany Stone" as JL refers to as containing bertrandite, are from nodules of fine-grained betrandite, silica, and fluorite, which as far as I know, come from the vicinity of the Spor Mountain beryllium mine, at which I think people have occasionally been allowed to collect on their mine dumps. (I've never been there.) Is that where the "bubble opal" comes from? Pete -------------- Original message from "Steve & Marilyn" : -------------- > There is an article about in in a 62 lapidary Journal I think Ill look it up > and give you the date and location. Keep on Rockin Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Catherine Gaber" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 1:36 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal > > > > can anyone point me to a website, book or article about bubble opal from > > utah? if not, locality anyone? or anything else? > > > > thanks, cathy > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 23 08:35:36 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Sep 23 08:35:39 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Recommendation References: <20060809230301.55592.qmail@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01c6df25$ea630620$8444294b@LarryRush> I am reading a non-fiction book that has impressed me as much as any other in a very long time. It is "The World is Flat", by Thomas Friedman, $30, about 600 pages. It is a history of how communication technology has helped create a Global Economy. Now, this isn't as much "off-topic" as you might think, when you consider how this list of world-wide members communicates. All of us also use the Web to research mineralogy, buy,sell, and trade minerals, and just learn more about this fascinating hobby we are drawn together to enjoy. The book is a bit geeky, but the author is good at explaining the technological parts so anyone can understand them, and the overriding theme is not technology, but the broader social and economic impact of how digital communications is bringing the world closer to becoming a unified economic entity. Reading this won't bring us any new mineral knowledge, but will give anyone a much better understanding of how today's communication systems effects all of our lives, including how we members get along and share information in our everyday habits. Larry From kadok at infowest.com Sat Sep 23 11:42:45 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Sep 23 11:42:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal In-Reply-To: <20060923011540.17829.qmail@web51003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001401c6df40$0f98c910$0200a8c0@kadok> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal Hi, Cathy -- If it really is bacon rind opal you are talking about, I have found some (rather poor quality) some years ago north of Milford, off the road that goes (east) over to the geothermal power plant. It was on a minor side road that turned off to the south. The story we got was that the landowner had buried the good stuff to keep it from bein stolen. (I was with a Geology class, and we had permission to look there.) Margaret Hello Cathy I haven't had time to google it but I have also heard this referred to as "bacon" or "bacon rind" opal. The photos from the site Grant posted are appear to be the same material as I seen called such. EJ -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- BEGIN-INFOWEST-SPAM-TRAP-TRAINING-LINKS ------------------------------------------------------ Teach InfoWest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 13503303) is spam: Spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=13503303&m=1de8fdc5277b Not spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=13503303&m=1de8fdc5277b Forget vote: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=13503303&m=1de8fdc5277b ------------------------------------------------------ END-INFOWEST-SPAM-TRAP-TRAINING-LINKS From llbullbull at hotmail.com Sat Sep 23 12:33:00 2006 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Sat Sep 23 12:33:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Recommendation In-Reply-To: <001f01c6df25$ea630620$8444294b@LarryRush> Message-ID: List Members: The book is really a great read, fascinating. Take care, Larry Bull >From: "Lawrence Rush" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Recommendation >Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 11:35:36 -0400 > >I am reading a non-fiction book that has impressed me as much as any other >in a very long time. It is "The World is Flat", by Thomas Friedman, $30, >about 600 pages. It is a history of how communication technology has helped >create a Global Economy. Now, this isn't as much "off-topic" as you might >think, when you consider how this list of world-wide members communicates. >All of us also use the Web to research mineralogy, buy,sell, and trade >minerals, and just learn more about this fascinating hobby we are drawn >together to enjoy. > >The book is a bit geeky, but the author is good at explaining the >technological parts so anyone can understand them, and the overriding theme >is not technology, but the broader social and economic impact of how >digital communications is bringing the world closer to becoming a unified >economic entity. > >Reading this won't bring us any new mineral knowledge, but will give anyone >a much better understanding of how today's communication systems effects >all of our lives, including how we members get along and share information >in our everyday habits. > >Larry > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Try the new Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sat Sep 23 13:46:20 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Sep 23 13:46:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Recommendation In-Reply-To: <001f01c6df25$ea630620$8444294b@LarryRush> References: <20060809230301.55592.qmail@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <001f01c6df25$ea630620$8444294b@LarryRush> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060923104429.03d2e800@mail.hawaiiantel.net> A very well-written review, Larry. Not sure I'll read it, but Bill might, and it's good to have a thoughtful review on hand. Aloha, Kitty At 05:35 AM 9/23/2006, you wrote: >I am reading a non-fiction book that has impressed me as much as any other >in a very long time. It is "The World is Flat", by Thomas Friedman, $30, >about 600 pages. It is a history of how communication technology has >helped create a Global Economy. Now, this isn't as much "off-topic" as you >might think, when you consider how this list of world-wide members >communicates. All of us also use the Web to research mineralogy, buy,sell, >and trade minerals, and just learn more about this fascinating hobby we >are drawn together to enjoy. > >The book is a bit geeky, but the author is good at explaining the >technological parts so anyone can understand them, and the overriding >theme is not technology, but the broader social and economic impact of >how digital communications is bringing the world closer to becoming a >unified economic entity. > >Reading this won't bring us any new mineral knowledge, but will give >anyone a much better understanding of how today's communication systems >effects all of our lives, including how we members get along and share >information in our everyday habits. > >Larry > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Sat Sep 23 15:03:22 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sat Sep 23 15:03:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Recommendation Message-ID: <092320062203.23520.4515AF280006D42B00005BE0216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I haven't read the book but I've heard numerous people refer to it, including in talks about mineral resources and the world economy. Vince Matthews, the Colorado State Geologist, has given an excellent talk about the effect the world demand for mineral resources (especially by China, to a lesser degree Japan, Korea, and India) is having on mining, including in Colorado. The good side (for mining), is that prices and demand for almost all mineral commodities are up. The down side, is that because of high international demand and competition for minerals, some needed raw materials are becoming difficult to obtain domestically. Vince talked about a construction project that had to be postponed because no structural steel could be obtained--all available was promised to Asian markets--and how some states have had similar problems even in obtaining cement. The other down side (depending how you view this) is that increased mineral demand is leading to vigorous exploration for and development of new mines for copper, gold, and most other metals, especially in "third-world" countries (Indonesia, Philippines are notable) leading to a lot of destruction or pollution of forest, farming, and fishing areas, because environmental regulations are nonexistent or simply are not enforced. "The World is Flat" addresses a lot more than just this, of course. About how "we" (the U.S., or the "western world") don't any more enjoy an automatic advantage in technology, communications, education, scientific research, etc., and that if we don't watch out and don't keep trying very hard to make advances in all these areas, we will be left behind as a depressed low-income backwater in the growing economic boom of the Asian countries. P.S., interestingly, I just did some browsing on the internet re. some of this, and I see that "alarming" claims that have been made (and which I'd heard from several sources) about how "China and India graduate 10 times as many engineers each year as the U.S." have been investigated and are apparently exaggerated and not really correct; see for example, http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1220/p01s01-ussc.html [including, for example, that the supposed figures for graduated "engineers" in China included people better described as auto mechanics]. Pete -------------- Original message from Kitty & Bill Heacox : -------------- > A very well-written review, Larry. Not sure I'll read it, but Bill might, > and it's good to have a thoughtful review on hand. > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 05:35 AM 9/23/2006, you wrote: > >I am reading a non-fiction book that has impressed me as much as any other > >in a very long time. It is "The World is Flat", by Thomas Friedman, $30, > >about 600 pages. It is a history of how communication technology has > >helped create a Global Economy. Now, this isn't as much "off-topic" as you > >might think, when you consider how this list of world-wide members > >communicates. All of us also use the Web to research mineralogy, buy,sell, > >and trade minerals, and just learn more about this fascinating hobby we > >are drawn together to enjoy. > > > >The book is a bit geeky, but the author is good at explaining the > >technological parts so anyone can understand them, and the overriding > >theme is not technology, but the broader social and economic impact of > >how digital communications is bringing the world closer to becoming a > >unified economic entity. > > > >Reading this won't bring us any new mineral knowledge, but will give > >anyone a much better understanding of how today's communication systems > >effects all of our lives, including how we members get along and share > >information in our everyday habits. > > > >Larry > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Sat Sep 23 23:00:14 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Sat Sep 23 22:58:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal In-Reply-To: <001401c6df40$0f98c910$0200a8c0@kadok> References: <001401c6df40$0f98c910$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <45161EEE.5080900@hal-pc.org> Margaret Malm wrote: > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal > > Hi, Cathy -- > If it really is bacon rind opal you are talking about, I have found some > (rather poor quality) some years ago north of Milford, off the road that > goes (east) over to the geothermal power plant. It was on a minor side road > that turned off to the south. > The story we got was that the landowner had buried the good stuff to keep it > from bein stolen. (I was with a Geology class, and we had permission to look > there.) > The "bacon rind" and "bubble opal" are found on BLM land in the Black Rock Desert in Millard County. The road just North of Milford, leading East, is easy to find. The area is rife with obsidian and pitchstone, which is the reason most people go there I would guess. The opal location is quite extensive and was or is a claim of the Utah Gem Society (name?) in Salt Lake City. It can be found by following the road towards the geothermal plant to where it makes a rather sharp drop or dip to the left. Just before this is a slim but passable road leading right at an acute angle to the main road. After a few hundred yards one can easily see the opal in a long rising or small ridge. The quality varies quite a bit. Most is in layers of honey brown and cream (hence bacon) but other hues occur including purple and red. Almost none of it shows the mixed flash of precious opal, but it is an interesting material nonetheless. I collected about three gallons of it easily in about two hours. It cuts and polishes well but crazes a lot so that large pieces are hard to work up. Refer to James R. Wilson's "A Collector's Guide to Rock, Mineral, & Fossil Localities of Utah" which is by far the best published source for Utah. It would be prudent to contact the Salt Lake club to gain permission, and perhaps throw a few bucks into the kitty for upkeep and maintenance. The area is clean and it would be nice to keep it that way. If one follows the main road past the geothermal plant to just where it joins the mountains, there is obsidian a-plenty of fair quality. There is better quality material elsewhere in the desert but watch out for claims...and this is free by the bucket-full as well as very easy to get to! john From jabac at hal-pc.org Sun Sep 24 00:38:00 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Sun Sep 24 00:36:28 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Recommendation In-Reply-To: <092320062203.23520.4515AF280006D42B00005BE0216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <092320062203.23520.4515AF280006D42B00005BE0216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <451635D8.7040509@hal-pc.org> pjmodreski@att.net wrote: > P.S., interestingly, I just did some browsing on the internet re. some of this, and I see that "alarming" claims that have been made (and which I'd heard from several sources) about how "China and India graduate 10 times as many engineers each year as the U.S." have been investigated and are apparently exaggerated and not really correct; see for example, http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1220/p01s01-ussc.html > [including, for example, that the supposed figures for graduated "engineers" in China included people better described as auto mechanics]. > > Pete > It depends I suppose on the amount of rose color in one's glasses. After all we now have "Sanitation Engineers" and grade inflation among other things. And an auto mechanic is now a highly skilled and well-paid technician. I would wager that the average income for auto mechanics exceeds that of the lumpen-Ph.D.s! The interesting thing I see about the Asian technical people is how they are able to make impressive things happen without the availability of all the super integrated digital chips that do everything. I know of one radio amateur in India who has a website full of great gear built with commonly available "old" stuff. And it is striking to read it and think "Gee...why didn't I think of that" And of course just about all of our digital gear is made in SE Asia or China. If poor relations were to develop, it would not be long before we couldn't get any ipods, motherboards, hard drives, or memory chips just to mention a few parts of the infra-structure. Of course we would still have Bill Gates! However people are still people and subject to the same foibles they have always had. I am not too impressed about grand visions of integration, even in the face of dire necessity. Digital things have become ubiquitous mostly because they are so darn handy, even if they don't have as finely-grained approach to the real world as one would wish. Still they are only a tool; demand has gone up for sure, and that makes materials by definition scarcer. But the real story is that the easy availability of economic materials has become a thing of the past for all of us. It is entropy in action in the marketplace. Markets must grow bigger to achieve the same result they did earlier ( hence things like NAFTA and the European Confederation). The alternative is to die or so severely retrench that it amounts to the same thing. The hitch in the git-along is that it all depends upon lots of excess free energy to spawn the continuance; more and more of it as we go along. That's the real question. Where do we get all the energy to support it on an ever grander scale and ever more expensive availability? The alternative is for the strongest to take over the limited supply, which practically speaking is what the West has done since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, isn't it? john From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Sep 24 12:14:52 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Sep 24 12:14:59 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Recommendation References: <092320062203.23520.4515AF280006D42B00005BE0216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <451635D8.7040509@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <000a01c6e00d$b76f5000$3efaf604@TheBlackAdder> John wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "jabac" excerpt: Digital things have become ubiquitous mostly because they are so darn handy, even if they don't have as finely-grained approach to the real world as one would wish. Still they are only a tool; demand has gone up for sure, and that makes materials by definition scarcer. But the real story is that the easy availability of economic materials has become a thing of the past for all of us. It is entropy in action in the marketplace. Markets must grow bigger to achieve the same result they did earlier ( hence things like NAFTA and the European Confederation). The alternative is to die or so severely retrench that it amounts to the same thing. The hitch in the git-along is that it all depends upon lots of excess free energy to spawn the continuance; more and more of it as we go along. That's the real question. Where do we get all the energy to support it on an ever grander scale and ever more expensive availability? The alternative is for the strongest to take over the limited supply, which practically speaking is what the West has done since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, isn't it? john Well, actually, digital devices are ubiquitous because they provide added value, and the materials they consume are a tiny fraction of that value. It's simply not true that "the easy availability of economic materials has become a thing of the past for all of us". Your statement would have a bit of credibility if you could provide just one example, adjusted for inflation. I'm reminded of the famous bet between Julian Simon and Paul (Doom Monger) Ehrlich made in the 1970's when raw material prices seemed headed toward infinity. The bet was that in ten years a list of raw materials would be less expensive, adjusted for inflation, than when the wager was made. The bet was for $10,000. and Mr. Simon easily won. This, and his basis for the bet, is described in Simon's book, "The Resourceful Earth". It goes without saying that prices reflect relative scarcity, and sometimes only perceived scarcity. Therefore, if we were really running out of some raw materials, prices would go through the roof, which they're not. Sometimes a surge in demand such as the building boom in China will cause short term spikes in prices and spot shortages, but this should not be assumed to be part of a trend. Finally, I take strong exception to John's last paragraph, saying that "the West" has taken over the limited supply due to its strength. Uhhhh, exactly how did we "take over" this limited supply? Didn't we westerners provide the expertise to develop the oil fields of the middle east then pay for every barrel? Self-interest? Absolutely. But "taking over"? Rubbish! And "since the Industrial Revolution"? Puhleeeze! Cheers, Erich Kern Murrieta, CA From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Sep 24 12:26:07 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Sep 24 12:26:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Recommendation In-Reply-To: <000a01c6e00d$b76f5000$3efaf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <092320062203.23520.4515AF280006D42B00005BE0216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <451635D8.7040509@hal-pc.org> <000a01c6e00d$b76f5000$3efaf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: On 9/24/06, Erich Kern wrote: > > John wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jabac" > > excerpt: > > > The alternative is for the strongest to take over the limited supply, > which practically speaking is what the West has done since the beginning > of the Industrial Revolution, isn't it? > > john > > > Well, actually, digital devices are ubiquitous because they provide added > value, and the > materials they consume are a tiny fraction of that value. > > It's simply not true that "the easy availability of economic materials has > become a thing of the > past for all of us". Your statement would have a bit of credibility if you > could provide just > one example, adjusted for inflation. I'm reminded of the famous bet > between Julian Simon and > Paul (Doom Monger) Ehrlich made in the 1970's when raw material prices > seemed headed toward > infinity. The bet was that in ten years a list of raw materials would be > less expensive, > adjusted for inflation, than when the wager was made. The bet was for > $10,000. and Mr. Simon > easily won. This, and his basis for the bet, is described in Simon's book, > "The Resourceful > Earth". It goes without saying that prices reflect relative scarcity, and > sometimes only > perceived scarcity. Therefore, if we were really running out of some raw > materials, prices would > go through the roof, which they're not. Sometimes a surge in demand such > as the building boom in > China will cause short term spikes in prices and spot shortages, but this > should not be assumed > to be part of a trend. > > Finally, I take strong exception to John's last paragraph, saying that > "the West" has taken over > the limited supply due to its strength. Uhhhh, exactly how did we "take > over" this limited > supply? Didn't we westerners provide the expertise to develop the oil > fields of the middle east > then pay for every barrel? Self-interest? Absolutely. But "taking over"? > Rubbish! And "since the > Industrial Revolution"? Puhleeeze! > > Cheers, > Erich Kern > Murrieta, CA > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sun Sep 24 12:36:07 2006 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Sep 24 12:36:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Back to rocks please (was) Book Recommendation In-Reply-To: <000a01c6e00d$b76f5000$3efaf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <092320062203.23520.4515AF280006D42B00005BE0216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <451635D8.7040509@hal-pc.org> <000a01c6e00d$b76f5000$3efaf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20060924093455.03e408d0@mail.hawaiiantel.net> Let's get back to rocks, please. Aloha, Kitty (for Admin Team) From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Sep 24 12:41:38 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Sep 24 12:41:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Book Recommendation In-Reply-To: <000a01c6e00d$b76f5000$3efaf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <092320062203.23520.4515AF280006D42B00005BE0216028130207059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> <451635D8.7040509@hal-pc.org> <000a01c6e00d$b76f5000$3efaf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: Let me try this again. You are describing the discredited economic theory of Mercantilism, discredited in the economically successful world anyway. That's a zero sum theory that says that when party A gains then party B loses an equal amount. Adam Smith argued against that theory and pointed out that both sides in a trade gain from the exchange. When a gem cutter sells a cut gem, he gets money and the buyer gets the gem. Both sides gain from the exchange. When someone digs up and ore and sells it to a refiner, he gets the money and the refiner gets the ore to process. Value is created by trade. Now it is popular among the economically ignorant or dishonest to claim that the west is stealing their natural resources. That is hogwash. A company buys the rights to an ore body, Iron for example. They pay for the right, they hire local workers, they pay export taxes or royaties most likely. All these are cash transfers to the locals. The iron ore sitting in the ground is worth nothing to them unless it is mined. The ore is shipped off, smelted, made into steel, and then the steel is sold to the original country in the form of tools, machinery and other fabricated items. Money flows back and forth and everyone gains in the process. BK > The alternative is for the strongest to take over the limited supply, > which practically speaking is what the West has done since the beginning > of the Industrial Revolution, isn't it? > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jlkelly1066 at iglide.net Sun Sep 24 18:24:40 2006 From: jlkelly1066 at iglide.net (jlkelly1066) Date: Sun Sep 24 18:24:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Opal Message-ID: <45172fd8.225.5a5.16314@iglide.net> Jabac: I'm sorry, don't normally let my emotions get carried away but your comment "Refer to James R. Wilson's "A Collector's Guide to Rock, Mineral, & Fossil Localities of Utah" which is by far the best published source for Utah." Jim Wilson's "attempt" at locating gem and mineral sites across the "Beehive State" is, without question the biggest collection of garbage published. Okay, admitted, in my opinion. He admits that 70% of his locations are taken from another source "Stowe." All you have to do is read any of his descriptions of locations and you realize very quickly that he has no idea what he is talking about. It is general knowledge in the geology group how and why Mr. Wilson wrote his book and the manner in which he wrote same. Again, in my opinion and in the opinion of many dozens of others I have encountered in the field Mr. Wilson's book is tremendously useful for one thing. Starting fires. Again, my opinion. JLK From rocknate at gmail.com Sun Sep 24 20:08:13 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Sun Sep 24 20:08:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] KY/IL Fluorite Trip Update & Invitation Message-ID: This is an update on the invitation to those on the Rockhounds list to join the Boston Mineral Club field trip to Marion, KY and Cave-in-Rock, IL over the Columbus day weekend. Although the largest part of the current group that has signed up is from Massachusetts we have collectors joining us from New Hampshire, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New York and Texas. I still have 5 or 6 openings for people who might want to go on this "bulldozer special" trip. If any of you on the Rockhounds list are interested in going please email me off list to get your name added to the list of attendees. Each time I have visited the area I have found interesting material and I am looking forward to the nighttime fluorescent collecting opportunity that we will have this time around. I have found some 3 and 4-color fluorescent specimens in material that I collected on previous trips. See the additional info below for our updated trip agenda and other details. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA ----------------------------------- Kentucky/Illinois Fluorite Field Trip Saturday thru Monday, October 7th To 9th, 2006 This trip has been confirmed with Bill Frazer in Marion, KY and it will provide field collecting opportunities in both Kentucky and Illinois over the Columbus Day weekend. It also will include visits to both the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY and the American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare, IL to see some of the best fluorite specimens in the world. The trip agenda is as follows: Saturday, 7 October. Meet at 8 AM in the parking lot of the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY. Travel in caravan to a nearby mine area to collect fluorite, "ruby-jack" sphalerite, galena, smithsonite and other minerals from the dumps of several WWII vintage mines located near Marion, KY. We will concentrate our efforts on the Eureka and Columbia Mines where the dumps will have been recently dug to provide us with fresh material to collect. On my most recent trip there in April, the Eureka mine dumps produced by far the best fluorite specimens including dark purple cubes greater than 1" on edge with complex stepped faces. After dinner in Marion, KY we will have special access to the Clement Mineral Museum starting at 7 PM. See their website at http://www.marionkentucky.us/clementmineralmuseum/index.htm to get an idea of the quality of the minerals on display. While we are at the museum people who have brought specimens with them will also have a chance to do some swapping. Sunday, 8 October. We will again meet at 8 AM in the parking lot of the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY. This time however we will drive to the Ohio River, take a small ferry to Cave-in Rock, IL and proceed to collect at the former site of the heavy media mill near Cave-in-Rock. In the afternoon people will have the option of visiting the American Fluorite Museum in Rosiclare, IL (open until 4 PM) or collecting at another Illinois fluorite or fossil locality. We plan to get together for a BBQ dinner Sunday evening back in Marion, KY. This will be another opportunity for swapping mineral specimensd that you may have brought with you. After dinner we will provide a nighttime collecting opportunity at the Columbia Mine for multi-colored fluorescent minerals. Monday, 9 October (Columbus Day). For some this may be a travel day back home but Monday morning and early afternoon will feature additional collecting in KY. We will again meet at 8 AM in the parking lot of the Clement Mineral Museum in Marion, KY and will leave from there to do additional collecting at the Eureka and Columbia mines. Around noon we will make a quick visit to the closed Babb/Barnes Fluorite Mill to see the head frame and processing buildings. I plan to leave by 2:00 PM to drive back to Nashville to catch my early evening flight back to Boston. Rules & Guidelines: Come prepared with dump digging tools plus a crack hammer & chisels for splitting rocks and/or trimming specimens. Bring a SW UV light if you want to do fluorescent collecting at night (I will bring both a portable SW UV light and will set up a fluorescent station in my car with a 36W LW/MW/SW light for those who don't have their own equipment). If you plan to fly, collecting buckets (5 gal paint buckets) can be purchased at minimal cost at Home Depot when you get to Nashville. BMC or other AFMLS club membership, signing of the BMC liability release, gloves, eye protection, and sturdy boots are also required. Bug spray and specimen wrapping materials are always a good idea. Bring extra luggage to take specimens back with you but pay attention to your airline's luggage limits. Note that some BMC members plan to drive and we may be able to arrange to send a few heavier tools with them. Travel Issues If you are planning to fly, I recommend flying into Nashville, TN on either Southwest or US Airways. Southwest allows three checked bags at 50 lbs per bag but at this point in time the best fares seem to be on US Airways. You will then need to rent a car for the 126 mile drive up to Marion, KY. For local lodging information, go to the Marion, KY website at http://www.marionkentucky.us/. I have already made my reservation at Myers Bed and Breakfast in Marion ($70/night for 2 people including breakfast & all taxes, cash or check only). Others plan to stay at the Marion Inn. The Royal Guest Inn & Suites is a small motel in town that has changed names and claims to be recently upgraded since I stayed there a couple of years ago so it may be OK if your standards are not too high. Registration: If you are interested in the trip Please register with trip-leader Nathan Martin as soon as possible by email at rocknate@gmail.com or by telephone at (781)674-0017. Since we are having excavation work done at the Eureka and Columbia Mines there will be a fee of $40/person for the trip. Note that a portion of this fee also goes to support the Clement Mineral Museum. To register for this trip you must confirm your intent to go AND send a check for $40 made out to the Boston Mineral Club. Mail the check to Boston Mineral Club, c/o Nathan Martin, 8 Elena Road, Lexington, MA 02421-7437. Detailed travel directions from Nashville and updates on the trip agenda will be provided to those who register. I will also provide detailed directions to the collecting sites when we meet on Saturday morning. This is a great chance to see another part of the country, collect some good fluorite specimens, see two interesting mineral museums and generally have a great time. I hope that some of you can come with us From jabac at hal-pc.org Sun Sep 24 20:35:57 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Sun Sep 24 20:34:17 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Utah Opal In-Reply-To: <45172fd8.225.5a5.16314@iglide.net> References: <45172fd8.225.5a5.16314@iglide.net> Message-ID: <45174E9D.4010405@hal-pc.org> jlkelly1066 wrote: > Jabac: > > I'm sorry, don't normally let my emotions get carried away > but your comment > > "Refer to James R. Wilson's "A Collector's Guide to Rock, > Mineral, & > Fossil Localities of Utah" which is by far the best > published source for > Utah." > > Jim Wilson's "attempt" at locating gem and mineral sites > across the "Beehive State" is, without question the biggest > collection of garbage published. Okay, admitted, in my > opinion. He admits that 70% of his locations are taken from > another source "Stowe." > > Really? I found it quite useful in my neophyte travels in Utah, better than the other field guides. Admittedly, he took much information from Stowe (which I also used). Of course, you, being closer to the source, may know more than most about what is best. What do you recommend? john From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Mon Sep 25 02:10:17 2006 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Mon Sep 25 02:10:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal Message-ID: Hi John, In your reply, you wrote that "Almost none of it shows the mixed flash of precious opal, but it is an interesting material nonetheless." Do I take that to mean that some of it _does) exhibit the spectral play of color found in precious opal? All the best, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet Design, LLC P. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com Message: 1 Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:00:14 -0500 From: jabac Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <45161EEE.5080900@hal-pc.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Margaret Malm wrote: >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal > >Hi, Cathy -- >If it really is bacon rind opal you are talking about, I have found some >(rather poor quality) some years ago north of Milford, off the road that >goes (east) over to the geothermal power plant. It was on a minor side road >that turned off to the south. >The story we got was that the landowner had buried the good stuff to keep >it >from bein stolen. (I was with a Geology class, and we had permission to >look >there.) > The "bacon rind" and "bubble opal" are found on BLM land in the Black Rock Desert in Millard County. The road just North of Milford, leading East, is easy to find. The area is rife with obsidian and pitchstone, which is the reason most people go there I would guess. The opal location is quite extensive and was or is a claim of the Utah Gem Society (name?) in Salt Lake City. It can be found by following the road towards the geothermal plant to where it makes a rather sharp drop or dip to the left. Just before this is a slim but passable road leading right at an acute angle to the main road. After a few hundred yards one can easily see the opal in a long rising or small ridge. The quality varies quite a bit. Most is in layers of honey brown and cream (hence bacon) but other hues occur including purple and red. Almost none of it shows the mixed flash of precious opal, but it is an interesting material nonetheless. I collected about three gallons of it easily in about two hours. It cuts and polishes well but crazes a lot so that large pieces are hard to work up. Refer to James R. Wilson's "A Collector's Guide to Rock, Mineral, & Fossil Localities of Utah" which is by far the best published source for Utah. It would be prudent to contact the Salt Lake club to gain permission, and perhaps throw a few bucks into the kitty for upkeep and maintenance. The area is clean and it would be nice to keep it that way. If one follows the main road past the geothermal plant to just where it joins the mountains, there is obsidian a-plenty of fair quality. There is better quality material elsewhere in the desert but watch out for claims...and this is free by the bucket-full as well as very easy to get to! john From JHODEL at wvdep.org Mon Sep 25 07:25:52 2006 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Mon Sep 25 07:26:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. Message-ID: Hi: I saw a remark about the number of engineers in various countries, and how determining whether a person is what we now call an engineer or not, as the descriptive word engineer may have different meanings at different times and in different places. An example: my grandfather W. F. Henrichs was an engineer at a mine near Beckley WV in the early 1900s . . . he was the hoist engineer, as opposed to a steam engine engineer. He was also a machinist in that he both operated the hoist and repaired it, usually by fabing the replacement parts. In WW I he shoed mules. I suspect he had a similar amount of respect as did the mining engineers who predicted which way the coal ran, but that's hard to tell. He worked during work stoppages (strikes) so that the company men could keep the pumps and ventilators running, which caused hard feelings among the union miners. He was a union member, but didn't have to stop work...if the mine flooded, that would be the end of the jobs. And the miners rode in the hoist, 555 feet down to work and 555 feet back up at the end of the shift, so they wanted a good man running that machinery. The headframe was pretty big, as they moved a huge tonnage of coal. All reclaimed and gone now. For most of the 20th century, an engineer was someone who ran trains, along with a fireman and a conductor. So don't be too quick to dismiss other cultural uses of the word engineer, as its definition has changed within my lifetime right here in the US. JR in WV --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Sep 25 07:39:37 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Sep 25 07:39:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Generally an engineer in the US is someone who has at least passed the EIT exam and has graduated from an engineering program. A professional engineer has passed the PE exam and has worked as an engineer for some set period of time. In most if not all states you legally cannot call yourself and engineer unless you have done the above. BK On 9/25/06, J.R. Hodel wrote: > > Hi: > > I saw a remark about the number of engineers in various countries, and > how determining whether a person is what we now call an engineer or not, > as the descriptive word engineer may have different meanings at > different times and in different places. > > An example: my grandfather W. F. Henrichs was an engineer at a mine > near Beckley WV in the early 1900s . . . he was the hoist engineer, as > opposed to a steam engine engineer. He was also a machinist in that he > both operated the hoist and repaired it, usually by fabing the > replacement parts. In WW I he shoed mules. I suspect he had a similar > amount of respect as did the mining engineers who predicted which way > the coal ran, but that's hard to tell. > > He worked during work stoppages (strikes) so that the company men could > keep the pumps and ventilators running, which caused hard feelings among > the union miners. He was a union member, but didn't have to stop > work...if the mine flooded, that would be the end of the jobs. And the > miners rode in the hoist, 555 feet down to work and 555 feet back up at > the end of the shift, so they wanted a good man running that machinery. > The headframe was pretty big, as they moved a huge tonnage of coal. All > reclaimed and gone now. > > For most of the 20th century, an engineer was someone who ran trains, > along with a fireman and a conductor. > > So don't be too quick to dismiss other cultural uses of the word > engineer, as its definition has changed within my lifetime right here in > the US. > > JR in WV > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Mon Sep 25 07:48:00 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Mon Sep 25 07:46:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4517EC20.70205@hal-pc.org> Douglas Turet wrote: > Hi John, > > In your reply, you wrote that > > "Almost none of it shows the mixed flash of precious opal, but it is an > interesting material nonetheless." > > Do I take that to mean that some of it _does) exhibit the spectral play > of color found in precious opal? > > > > All the best, > Doug > Yes, but very little and none solid enough to be considered as equivalent to "precious opal". This is more like colored hyalite in sheets and layers. Most of it is crumbly and friable. Some can be cut as cabs or flats with no specular flash. It resembles banded honey onyx more than anything else. john From albalmer at att.net Mon Sep 25 08:00:00 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Sep 25 08:00:02 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6krfh2pv0ufc1rcec484v52un5jcmfepk0@4ax.com> On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:25:52 -0400, "J.R. Hodel" wrote: >So don't be too quick to dismiss other cultural uses of the word >engineer, as its definition has changed within my lifetime right here in >the US. I don't think anyone is dismissing such usages, only pointing out that the scare stories we see in the media depend on ignoring differences in usage. The sky is *not* falling. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From albalmer at att.net Mon Sep 25 08:05:33 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Sep 25 08:05:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:39:37 -0400, "J Bryan Kramer" wrote: >Generally an engineer in the US is someone who has at least passed the EIT >exam and has graduated from an engineering program. A professional engineer >has passed the PE exam and has worked as an engineer for some set period of >time. In most if not all states you legally cannot call yourself and >engineer unless you have done the above. > Sort of. You cannot hang a shingle or advertise yourself as an engineering firm. However, millions of people legally and legitimately call themselves engineers while working for someone else. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From pjmodreski at att.net Mon Sep 25 09:54:27 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Mon Sep 25 09:54:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. Message-ID: <092520061654.28110.451809C300006A4800006DCE216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Unless of course, you went to Georgia Tech, and then I think no matter how many or what kind of engineering courses you took and whether or not you passed any such exams, you are automatically not only an Engineer, but a Heck of an Engineer! : ) Pete -------------- Original message from "J Bryan Kramer" : -------------- > Generally an engineer in the US is someone who has at least passed the EIT > exam and has graduated from an engineering program. A professional engineer > has passed the PE exam and has worked as an engineer for some set period of > time. In most if not all states you legally cannot call yourself and > engineer unless you have done the above. > > BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Mon Sep 25 11:45:06 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Sep 25 11:45:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. In-Reply-To: <092520061654.28110.451809C300006A4800006DCE216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> References: <092520061654.28110.451809C300006A4800006DCE216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 16:54:27 +0000, pjmodreski@att.net wrote: >Unless of course, you went to Georgia Tech, and then I think no matter how many or what kind of engineering courses you took and whether or not you passed any such exams, you are automatically not only an Engineer, but a Heck of an Engineer! : ) Reminds me of a sign in my freshman MIT dorm "A week ago, I couldn't even spell enguneer, and now I is one!" (Well, it was new to me at the time :-) > >Pete > > >-------------- Original message from "J Bryan Kramer" : -------------- > >> Generally an engineer in the US is someone who has at least passed the EIT >> exam and has graduated from an engineering program. A professional engineer >> has passed the PE exam and has worked as an engineer for some set period of >> time. In most if not all states you legally cannot call yourself and >> engineer unless you have done the above. >> >> BK -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Sep 25 12:01:29 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Sep 25 12:01:34 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. In-Reply-To: References: <092520061654.28110.451809C300006A4800006DCE216028065107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: You mean you all played football? BK > >Unless of course, you went to Georgia Tech, and then I think no matter > how many or what kind of engineering courses you took and whether or not you > passed any such exams, you are automatically not only an Engineer, but a > Heck of an Engineer! : ) > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Mon Sep 25 15:30:28 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Mon Sep 25 15:31:33 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal References: <1fbb02181deac253e60c6dbb355d4340@his.com> <003d01c6dec2$ffbd1000$f51171ce@marilyn> Message-ID: <022601c6e0f2$35535900$f51171ce@marilyn> The March 1986 Rock and Gem has an article and map of where the "Bubble Opal" is found.on page 36 The map says 5 miles north of Milford Utah then angle right E. on a dotted line (I assume unpaved road 6.0 more miles N.E. to a little hill running north south and the opal is supposed to be on the south end of the hill. It also shows a steam power plant a little further down the unpaved road on the north side (oppisiteside) of the road of the hill. All the best Keep on Rockin Sorry It took a while to find the article R&G not Lap Journal. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve & Marilyn" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 9:47 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal > There is an article about in in a 62 lapidary Journal I think Ill look it > up and give you the date and location. Keep on Rockin Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Catherine Gaber" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com : A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 1:36 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] utah bubble opal > > >> can anyone point me to a website, book or article about bubble opal from >> utah? if not, locality anyone? or anything else? >> >> thanks, cathy >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jr50wv at yahoo.com Mon Sep 25 18:16:05 2006 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Sep 25 18:16:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Liquid stone - a concrete pour made necessary by accumulating collected rocks Message-ID: <20060926011605.52983.qmail@web56309.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: Folks seemed disappointed by the lack of posting recently, so I thought I would provide grist for the mill. Over the past few years, I've bought, dug up, chopped from bedrock, gathered from creek beds, and otherwise accumulated a lot of rocks. Some were expensively procured from Tucson dealers, Carnegie Museum Show dealers, East Coast Show dealers, and online dealers. Most were extracted from nature, and these, of course, are the largest ones, as all we had to do was get them into the back of the truck. Indiana, Colorado, Maine, Kentucky, Ohio, and Wyoming have all seen me sweat as I pounded chisel into bedrock, and dug deeper holes, with rocks in the earth. Well, even with a large house, Martha eventually said "Enough!" and told me I had to provide a place for all the junk before I could continue accumulating. I should add that I don't just collect rocks, I also collect cameras, Native American art and artifacts, paintings, weavings, and books of all sorts. And tools and machines. And after my Dad died back in 2004, I accumulated lots of old family stuff he had by virtue of being the last Hodel in town, thus being a place my cousins could take stuff too cool to keep but not just what they wanted to keep and have themselves. And my Dad had a sports car, too, and we don't (yet) have a garage! Lots went to the local library's historical collection - when your family runs the local newspaper for 75 years you accumulate nice old stuff. Anyways, last year I decided to keep Martha happy by building a multipurpose building. Garage, studio, greenhouse, barn loft, shop and library for the books that wouldn't fit in the library in the house. 24x48, 2 story, fireproof, these were a few of the requirements. I have a neighbor who built his basement using ICFs, integrated concrete forms, two layers of expanded styrofoam, attached together with rigid plastic webs, cleverly notched to hold rebar. You pour a foundation, and glue a course of these foam blocks down, leaving holes for doors. Then you fit the next course into the first one, just like giant Legos, and you lay rebar between the two courses, and wire the top course to the bottom course. Eventually you need to leave holes for windows, and frame around these holes and the door holes, because in the end, you fill the gap between the inside foam wall and the outside foam wall with pea-gravel concrete, a wet mix of the stuff that slumps a little more than the average mix. Last Friday, we had a concrete pump come about 9 am, and the first of 4 big mixers (10 yards each) showed up about 10. We started pouring, by dumping the mix into the hopper of the pump truck, a huge machine that can move tons of wet concrete several stories into the air if needed, and moving the end of the long boom along the styrofoam wall. About half way through the first truck, it started to drizzle! We kept on pouring concrete, and by the middle of the second truck it was pouring rain!!! Miserable!! The guys tried to hurry a little, unconsciously, and they let the lift (a layer of concrete is sometimes called a lift) get too deep, and the styrofoam blew out! A couple of yards of mud spilled out in the opening between the wall of earth and the building wall...I was unable to motivate folks, but the pumper (who knew a thing or two about pouring concrete) got them started... First the guys (there were 6 of us all told) shoveled the spilled mud out of the way, and then Joe and Dan (Dan is my collecting buddy) got a 4x8 foot sheet of OSB board, and cut it in half, and got some boards, and fastened the two big boards to the corner hwere the blow-out happened. Then they wedged more boards between the patch and the wall of earth behind the building. Then we poured a little bit into that corner, and went on to other parts of the pour. Did I mention the rain? They used a skill saw to cut the boards, just as we had used the generator to power the vibrator, which we used to get the air bubbles out of the wet concrete mix. The Pump boom was probably 40 or 50 feet up in the air, and pumped the concrete up all that way, before it poured back down to the nozzle. At one point, before the blow-out, there was a little thunder...but it never amounted to much. No harm done, thank goodness! In the end, the pour was completely successful., and I wound up with a 8 inch reinforced concrete wall with R-50 insulation. No one was hurt (I was pretty sore, tho!) and I provided clean dry old clothes for the guys to change into before getting into their trucks. After I paid everyone, we all had a sshort hot of brown (Wild Turkey) to cut the chill, and everyone headed off into the very wet evening. The building is half way up. I'm ordering I-joists for the 2nd story floor this week, and then we'll continue the second floor with 6-inch walls. Eventually, it will be a shop/garage/loft/studio...maybe not this fall, but someday. I got carried away, a little, but anything worth doing is worth doing! That liquid stone is funny stuff! I hear the Romans used it too, but that may not be true... KoR. JR --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Sep 25 18:30:33 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Sep 25 18:30:37 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Liquid stone - a concrete pour made necessary by accumulating collected rocks In-Reply-To: <20060926011605.52983.qmail@web56309.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060926011605.52983.qmail@web56309.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yup the Romans used Pozzolanic concrete: > That liquid stone is funny stuff! I hear the Romans used it too, but that > may not be true... > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Sep 25 20:37:50 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Sep 25 20:37:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Liquid stone - a concrete pour made necessary by accumulating collected rocks In-Reply-To: <20060926011605.52983.qmail@web56309.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <20060926011605.52983.qmail@web56309.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 9/25/06, J. R. Hodel wrote: >: > > I should add that I don't just collect rocks, I also collect cameras, Native American art and artifacts, paintings, weavings, and books of all sorts. And tools and machines. --------------------------------------------------- Anybody who collects rocks needs books, magazines, cameras, and tools and machines. And an interest in rocks leads to flint knapping and that leads to NA artifacts and art. That leads to western paraphenalia, including guns -- and books about them.. It's all perrfectly logical. I better not mention music, old vinyl albums, 8 tracks, etc :-) But I do understand, Grant From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Sep 25 20:49:16 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Sep 25 20:49:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My brother works on a river boat that goes from New Orleans north up the Mississippi, Ohio, and a few other rivers. It's a tug boat. His job title is engineer and his job is to keep the big diesel engine running, 24 hours a day, unless they are tied up and plugged into a land line. Engineers work on big engines, trains, boats, ships. On 9/25/06, J.R. Hodel wrote: > Hi: > > I saw a remark about the number of engineers in various countries, and > how determining whether a person is what we now call an engineer or not, > as the descriptive word engineer may have different meanings at > different times and in different places. > > An example: my grandfather W. F. Henrichs was an engineer at a mine > near Beckley WV in the early 1900s . . . he was the hoist engineer, as > opposed to a steam engine engineer. He was also a machinist in that he > both operated the hoist and repaired it, usually by fabing the > replacement parts. In WW I he shoed mules. I suspect he had a similar > amount of respect as did the mining engineers who predicted which way > the coal ran, but that's hard to tell. > From efkern at earthlink.net Mon Sep 25 23:15:25 2006 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Mon Sep 25 23:15:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gem & Mineral Show This Sunday Message-ID: <000b01c6e133$28695050$15fff604@TheBlackAdder> Show date for California....this Sunday. We have two vendor spaces still available as of Monday night 9/25/06. Dealers please call Janice Bricker at 760-728-1333 or our club office at 760-728-1130 ********************************************** Sunday October 1st Held every year in Fallbrook, California the first Sunday of October Fallbrook Gem & Mineral Society's Ninth Annual Fall Festival 123 W. Alvarado St., Fallbrook, California 10AM to 4PM Free admission and free parking 28 mineral, gem and jewelry vendors A new silent auction every half hour in our auditorium Our museum and mineral shop will be open Gold panning, geode cracking, sphere making, flint knapping demos. Mineral & Gem Identification / Big raffle drawing at 4 PM, hundreds of dollars in prizes. Map, directions, and details on our web site at http://www.fgms.org Hope to see you there. Erich Kern For FGMS From rower at start.no Tue Sep 26 04:08:02 2006 From: rower at start.no (Start) Date: Tue Sep 26 04:08:55 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Problems with mould Message-ID: <000e01c6e15c$152847c0$42b29fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> Hi, Currently I am working for the Skuterud cobalt mines in Modum, Norway. (Part of the Blaafarvev?rket) The mine is in the process of being completely restored. In one of the tunnels we have some beautiful wooden doors from around 1845, but these are completely covered by mould, even though have been impregnated with tar (or something similar). It seems as if the tar itself is feeding the mould! It is very damp in the mine and there is a lot of draught. Any suggestions as how to solve this problem once and for all. Some kind of chemical? Taking them outside the mine, drying and impregnating them with some kind of acrylic stuff? Thanks for any suggestions. Ronald Werner Norway --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Sep 26 04:24:48 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Sep 26 04:24:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Problems with mould In-Reply-To: <000e01c6e15c$152847c0$42b29fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> References: <000e01c6e15c$152847c0$42b29fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> Message-ID: Well, organic copper arsenate used to be the most common treatment in the US. I doubt it would be legal to use in the EU however and it stains the wood blue-green. If the wood is already impregnated with tar then that also limits the possiblities, that may have been some form of creosote treatment. I would suggest that you contact the Foresty people at the closest university, they can probably put you into contact with local experts. BK On 9/26/06, Start wrote: > > Hi, > > Currently I am working for the Skuterud cobalt mines in Modum, Norway. > (Part of the Blaafarvev?rket) > > The mine is in the process of being completely restored. > > In one of the tunnels we have some beautiful wooden doors from around > 1845, but these are completely covered by mould, even though have been > impregnated with tar (or something similar). It seems as if the tar itself > is feeding the mould! > > It is very damp in the mine and there is a lot of draught. > > Any suggestions as how to solve this problem once and for all. > > Some kind of chemical? > > Taking them outside the mine, drying and impregnating them with some kind > of acrylic stuff? > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > Ronald Werner > Norway > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rower at start.no Tue Sep 26 04:37:04 2006 From: rower at start.no (Ronald Werner) Date: Tue Sep 26 04:37:16 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Problems with mould References: <000e01c6e15c$152847c0$42b29fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> Message-ID: <002201c6e160$19e18d40$42b29fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> Yes, you are right about copper arsenate. Norwegian law is very strict, we wouldn't even be able to buy it in the country. (Smuggle it from Polen or one of the Baltic states maybe?) Since this is a major problem for us, we definitely need to find expert help. Thanks, Ronald ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Problems with mould Well, organic copper arsenate used to be the most common treatment in the US. I doubt it would be legal to use in the EU however and it stains the wood blue-green. If the wood is already impregnated with tar then that also limits the possiblities, that may have been some form of creosote treatment. I would suggest that you contact the Foresty people at the closest university, they can probably put you into contact with local experts. BK On 9/26/06, Start wrote: > > Hi, > > Currently I am working for the Skuterud cobalt mines in Modum, Norway. > (Part of the Blaafarvev?rket) > > The mine is in the process of being completely restored. > > In one of the tunnels we have some beautiful wooden doors from around > 1845, but these are completely covered by mould, even though have been > impregnated with tar (or something similar). It seems as if the tar itself > is feeding the mould! > > It is very damp in the mine and there is a lot of draught. > > Any suggestions as how to solve this problem once and for all. > > Some kind of chemical? > > Taking them outside the mine, drying and impregnating them with some kind > of acrylic stuff? > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > Ronald Werner > Norway > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Sep 26 08:24:31 2006 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Sep 26 08:24:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New trench at Crater of Diamonds produces 2 gems Message-ID: <7aac8040609260824s4ad7e2efu39a604040a307b6d@mail.gmail.com> Looks like a new trench opened at Crater of Diamonds has produced 2 gems over 1 carat. The new trench was opened last Saturday. Links to the news articles, 1.3 carat - http://www.azstarnet.com/news/147949 6.35 carat - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/25/AR2006092501102.html Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 26 15:43:10 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 26 15:43:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Problems with mould References: <000e01c6e15c$152847c0$42b29fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> Message-ID: <4519ACFA.64B@Tomaszewski.net> My first suggestion is to find a biologist or expert on mold and identify the organisms growing on the doors. My second suggestion is that you tap into the resources of museum restoration and conservation. There are some good websites, but you may want to find an expert at a major museum. Unfortunately, solving the mold problem once and for all is probably going to involve changing the climate in the mine to make it dry. Kreigh Start wrote: > > Hi, > > Currently I am working for the Skuterud cobalt mines in Modum, Norway. (Part of the Blaafarvev?rket) > > The mine is in the process of being completely restored. > > In one of the tunnels we have some beautiful wooden doors from around 1845, but these are completely covered by mould, even though have been impregnated with tar (or something similar). It seems as if the tar itself is feeding the mould! > > It is very damp in the mine and there is a lot of draught. > > Any suggestions as how to solve this problem once and for all. > > Some kind of chemical? > > Taking them outside the mine, drying and impregnating them with some kind of acrylic stuff? > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > Ronald Werner > Norway From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Sep 26 16:25:07 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Sep 26 16:25:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. Message-ID: Being an electrical engineer myself, I am acutely aware of many classifications of the title "engineer". Most folks think of engineers as road builders or operators of big engines. The word is quite old in the world of oral and written communication and has been used to describe those in vocations from garbage collectors or sanitary sewer workers, maintenance personel, and most all types of builders, to very highly educated professors and professionals of many engineering fields. Titles are awarded by states, i.e. "Registered Professional Engineer" or "P.E." is one who has met the educational requirements for a degree from a recognized college or university, passed the state Engineer in Training "EIT" exam, then met the experience required working under a recognized P.E. and then passed the state P.E. exam; Colleges and universities certify "Graduate Engineers" as a step toward their P.E. and employers assign the title to many varied jobs. These guys are typically "design engineers" and "application engineers". Since the invention of engines and motors, those who operate and or maintain these devices have been named engineers. So you just have to know what "kind" of engineer you are discussing. Glenn > Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:49:16 -0700> From: roughrock@gmail.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then.> > My brother works on a river boat that goes from New Orleans north up> the Mississippi, Ohio, and a few other rivers. It's a tug boat.> > His job title is engineer and his job is to keep the big diesel engine> running, 24 hours a day, unless they are tied up and plugged into a> land line. Engineers work on big engines, trains, boats, ships.> > On 9/25/06, J.R. Hodel wrote:> > Hi:> >> > I saw a remark about the number of engineers in various countries, and> > how determining whether a person is what we now call an engineer or not,> > as the descriptive word engineer may have different meanings at> > different times and in different places.> >> > An example: my grandfather W. F. Henrichs was an engineer at a mine> > near Beckley WV in the early 1900s . . . he was the hoist engineer, as> > opposed to a steam engine engineer. He was also a machinist in that he> > both operated the hoist and repaired it, usually by fabing the> > replacement parts. In WW I he shoed mules. I suspect he had a similar> > amount of respect as did the mining engineers who predicted which way> > the coal ran, but that's hard to tell.> >> _________________________________________________________________ Stay connected with the news, people, places and online services that matter to you on Live.com http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx?icid=T001MSN30A0701 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknlight at aol.com Tue Sep 26 16:29:33 2006 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Tue Sep 26 16:29:48 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLEACH or AMONIA or HYDROGEN PEROXIDE Problems with mould In-Reply-To: <000e01c6e15c$152847c0$42b29fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> References: <000e01c6e15c$152847c0$42b29fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> Message-ID: <8C8AFDAC1BBF784-E88-189@webmail-da01.sysops.aol.com> The way we treat common mold on wood, or ROCKS here in the US is to use common household bleach - Amonia may work as well ?? NEVER MIX THE 2 !!!!!!! AMONIA & BLEACH MIXED TOGETHER CREATE A ( DEADLY GAS ) BEWARE - BE WARNED !!!!!!!! USE ONE OR THE OTHER - BUT NEVER BOTH TOGETHER- High potency, percentage 35 + % hydrogen peroxide, may work as well - Use alone as well... HYDROGEN PEROXIDE MAY BE THE BEST WAY - ALTHOUGH PERHAPS THE MOST EXPENSIVE ? You would most likely need to build a custom made tub to place the doors in and then fill up the tub with the solution you chose, so that whatever you use, completely covers / submerges the doors ! And you should dispose of all your used solution and mold legally - The amount of time the doors would need to be submerged ? Your guess is as good as mine-- I would suggest 24 hours no matter which ONE of the 3 liquids you use -- After treatment, scrub the doors with soft plastic brushes to remove surface mold, etc - Rinse with clean water - After doors are cleaned, re-apply another final surface coat of your mold cleaning liquid - Then, carefully lay flat with several wooden vices, etc etc to prevent warping - Drying time and methods would best be determined by an experienced wood professional. Good luck RocknLight -----Original Message----- From: rower@start.no To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 4:08 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Problems with mould Hi, Currently I am working for the Skuterud cobalt mines in Modum, Norway. (Part of the Blaafarvev?rket) The mine is in the process of being completely restored. In one of the tunnels we have some beautiful wooden doors from around 1845, but these are completely covered by mould, even though have been impregnated with tar (or something similar). It seems as if the tar itself is feeding the mould! It is very damp in the mine and there is a lot of draught. Any suggestions as how to solve this problem once and for all. Some kind of chemical? Taking them outside the mine, drying and impregnating them with some kind of acrylic stuff? Thanks for any suggestions. Ronald Werner Norway --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Sep 26 17:02:10 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Sep 26 17:02:18 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] BLEACH or AMONIA or HYDROGEN PEROXIDE Problems with mould In-Reply-To: <8C8AFDAC1BBF784-E88-189@webmail-da01.sysops.aol.com> References: <000e01c6e15c$152847c0$42b29fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> <8C8AFDAC1BBF784-E88-189@webmail-da01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Have you ever treated wood with 35% Hydrogen Peroxide? My first thought would be that it would cause irreparable damage. And I also thought that this could be hazardous and looking at the H2O2 MSDS sheet I see wood is specifically listed as one of the incompatible materials, fire and explosion may result from contact. Plus these doors are apparently saturated with tar or creosote, mixing powerful oxidizers with unknown organics is a quick way to disaster. If certain chemical applications are not in your area of expertise you should be very careful about telling people to do something. Something that could result in serious injury or worse. Bleach would probably also damage the wood, though maybe not as badly. That's why I suggested he try contacting some people at the nearest university, the foresty department probably has a wood products group. Here in the US anyway they work with wood preservation among other subjects. The museum suggestion was also a good one. I know they use PEG (Polyethylene glycol) to saturate wood for preservation, but if this has already been saturated with creosote then that might not work. But finding local experts is what they need to do. BK On 9/26/06, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: > > The way we treat common mold on wood, or ROCKS here in the US is to use > common household bleach - > > Amonia may work as well ?? > > NEVER MIX THE 2 !!!!!!! > > AMONIA & BLEACH MIXED TOGETHER CREATE A ( DEADLY GAS ) BEWARE - BE > WARNED !!!!!!!! > > USE ONE OR THE OTHER - BUT NEVER BOTH TOGETHER- > > High potency, percentage 35 + % hydrogen peroxide, may work as well - > Use alone as well... > > HYDROGEN PEROXIDE MAY BE THE BEST WAY - ALTHOUGH PERHAPS THE MOST > EXPENSIVE ? > > You would most likely need to build a custom made tub to place the doors > in and then fill up the tub with the solution you chose, so that whatever > you use, completely covers / submerges the doors ! > > And you should dispose of all your used solution and mold legally - > > The amount of time the doors would need to be submerged ? Your guess is > as good as mine-- > > I would suggest 24 hours no matter which ONE of the 3 liquids you use -- > > After treatment, scrub the doors with soft plastic brushes to remove > surface mold, etc - Rinse with clean water - > > After doors are cleaned, re-apply another final surface coat of your mold > cleaning liquid - > > Then, carefully lay flat with several wooden vices, etc etc to prevent > warping - > > Drying time and methods would best be determined by an experienced wood > professional. > > Good luck > > RocknLight > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rower@start.no > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 4:08 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Problems with mould > > > Hi, > > Currently I am working for the Skuterud cobalt mines in Modum, Norway. > (Part of > the Blaafarvev?rket) > > The mine is in the process of being completely restored. > > In one of the tunnels we have some beautiful wooden doors from around > 1845, but > these are completely covered by mould, even though have been impregnated > with > tar (or something similar). It seems as if the tar itself is feeding the > mould! > > It is very damp in the mine and there is a lot of draught. > > Any suggestions as how to solve this problem once and for all. > > Some kind of chemical? > > Taking them outside the mine, drying and impregnating them with some kind > of > acrylic stuff? > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > Ronald Werner > Norway > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security > tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, > free AOL Mail and more. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Sep 26 17:10:24 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Sep 26 17:10:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well some PE's are road builders, Civil Engineers. Or at least they supervise the building of roads and other structures. The are all sorts of engineers: Mechanical, Nuclear, Mining, Environmental, Marine, Aeronautical and the list goes on. BK On 9/26/06, Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > Being an electrical engineer myself, I am acutely aware of many > classifications of the title "engineer". > > Most folks think of engineers as road builders or operators of big > engines. > > The word is quite old in the world of oral and written communication and > has been used to describe those in vocations from garbage collectors or > sanitary sewer workers, maintenance personel, and most all types of > builders, to very highly educated professors and professionals of many > engineering fields. > > Titles are awarded by states, i.e. "Registered Professional Engineer" or > "P.E." is one who has met the educational requirements for a degree from a > recognized college or university, passed the state Engineer in Training > "EIT" exam, then met the experience required working under a recognized > P.E. and then passed the state P.E. exam; Colleges and universities > certify "Graduate Engineers" as a step toward their P.E. and employers > assign the title to many varied jobs. These guys are typically "design > engineers" and "application engineers". > > Since the invention of engines and motors, those who operate and or > maintain these devices have been named engineers. > > So you just have to know what "kind" of engineer you are discussing. > Glenn > > > Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:49:16 -0700> From: roughrock@gmail.com> To: > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and > there, now and then.> > My brother works on a river boat that goes from New > Orleans north up> the Mississippi, Ohio, and a few other rivers. It's a tug > boat.> > His job title is engineer and his job is to keep the big diesel > engine> running, 24 hours a day, unless they are tied up and plugged into a> > land line. Engineers work on big engines, trains, boats, ships.> > On > 9/25/06, J.R. Hodel wrote:> > Hi:> >> > I saw a remark > about the number of engineers in various countries, and> > how determining > whether a person is what we now call an engineer or not,> > as the > descriptive word engineer may have different meanings at> > different times > and in different places.> >> > An example: my grandfather W. F. Henrichs was > an engineer at a mine> > near Beckley WV in the early 1900s . . . he was the > hoist engineer, as> > opposed to a steam engine engineer. He was also a > machinist in that he> > both operated the hoist and repaired it, usually by > fabing the> > replacement parts. In WW I he shoed mules. I suspect he had > a similar> > amount of respect as did the mining engineers who predicted > which way> > the coal ran, but that's hard to tell.> >> > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay connected with the news, people, places and online services that > matter to you on Live.com > http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx?icid=T001MSN30A0701 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From bobl at peaktopeak.com Tue Sep 26 18:02:20 2006 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Tue Sep 26 18:02:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200609270102.k8R12Lxv003471@bubbleator.drizzle.com> This also depends on the context or audience you are speaking to. Many people in the software industry are considered "software engineers" or "database engineers" or some other kind of engineer, even if they have never taken any certified tests. They are just general titles that tell someone that this person performs a certain job and works with certain tools (e.g. databases). My title at work is "Implementation Engineer" but there is no test or coursework that I can take to get "certified" as an engineer (because what we do is proprietary and must be learned "on the job"). I have been working with computers (fixing them, writing code, etc) since I was 15 years old (and no, I'm not talking about playing video games), so I've been learning about them for 23 years. When the average person on the street asks me what my title is, I tell them "Implementation Engineer" and that "I work with computer software and hardware". That's usually good enough to satisfy their curiosity. But if a professional engineer asked me, I would have to explain it more thoroughly and maybe not use the word "engineer". Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Wimpee Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:25 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. Being an electrical engineer myself, I am acutely aware of many classifications of the title "engineer". Most folks think of engineers as road builders or operators of big engines. The word is quite old in the world of oral and written communication and has been used to describe those in vocations from garbage collectors or sanitary sewer workers, maintenance personel, and most all types of builders, to very highly educated professors and professionals of many engineering fields. Titles are awarded by states, i.e. "Registered Professional Engineer" or "P.E." is one who has met the educational requirements for a degree from a recognized college or university, passed the state Engineer in Training "EIT" exam, then met the experience required working under a recognized P.E. and then passed the state P.E. exam; Colleges and universities certify "Graduate Engineers" as a step toward their P.E. and employers assign the title to many varied jobs. These guys are typically "design engineers" and "application engineers". Since the invention of engines and motors, those who operate and or maintain these devices have been named engineers. So you just have to know what "kind" of engineer you are discussing. Glenn > Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:49:16 -0700> From: roughrock@gmail.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then.> > My brother works on a river boat that goes from New Orleans north up> the Mississippi, Ohio, and a few other rivers. It's a tug boat.> > His job title is engineer and his job is to keep the big diesel engine> running, 24 hours a day, unless they are tied up and plugged into a> land line. Engineers work on big engines, trains, boats, ships.> > On 9/25/06, J.R. Hodel wrote:> > Hi:> >> > I saw a remark about the number of engineers in various countries, and> > how determining whether a person is what we now call an engineer or not,> > as the descriptive word engineer may have different meanings at> > different times and in different places.> >> > An example: my grandfather W. F. Henrichs was an engineer at a mine> > near Beckley WV in the early 1900s . . . he was the hoist engineer, as> > opposed to a steam engine engineer. He was also a machinist in that he> > both operated the hoist and repaired it, usually by fabing the> > replacement parts. In WW I he shoed mules. I suspect he had a similar> > amount of respect as did the mining engineers who predicted which way> > the coal ran, but that's hard to tell.> >> _________________________________________________________________ Stay connected with the news, people, places and online services that matter to you on Live.com http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx?icid=T001MSN30A0701 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From turnea55 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 26 18:17:48 2006 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Tue Sep 26 18:17:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mold problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am actually now a certified mold inspector here in California. The truth is, you will probably never get rid of the mold completely, especially since it appears to be in the wood. Virtually all wood has mold in it to various degrees, the trick is to make sure it doesn't grow worse. The best way to treat wood with mold is to scrub it with a solution of one cup Borax per 1 gallon (4 liters) of water. Once this is done, rinse with water and dry thoroughly..mold needs water to grow. If mold is still very bad, it is suggested to add 8 to 10 tablespoons of trisodium phosphate to your Borax/water solution (increase strength if necessary. Three tablespoons of oxalic acid to 1 pint water can also be used if if the other solutions did not work. Rinse everything with clean water and dry..keep drying. Then, the wood should be repainted if possible with good quality mildew-resistant paint (fungicides). This is called encapsulation. I hope this information helps. Don't use bleach..it is effective in certain situations (i.e. mold on windostills and in bathrooms), but probably wouldn't be good here. Andrew Turner Victorville, California >From: "J Bryan Kramer" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] BLEACH or AMONIA or HYDROGEN PEROXIDE Problems >withmould >Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:02:10 -0400 > >Have you ever treated wood with 35% Hydrogen Peroxide? My first thought >would be that it would cause irreparable damage. And I also thought that >this could be hazardous and looking at the H2O2 MSDS sheet I see wood is >specifically listed as one of the incompatible materials, fire and >explosion >may result from contact. > >Plus these doors are apparently saturated with tar or creosote, mixing >powerful oxidizers with unknown organics is a quick way to disaster. > >If certain chemical applications are not in your area of expertise you >should be very careful about telling people to do something. Something that >could result in serious injury or worse. > >Bleach would probably also damage the wood, though maybe not as badly. > >That's why I suggested he try contacting some people at the nearest >university, the foresty department probably has a wood products group. Here >in the US anyway they work with wood preservation among other subjects. > >The museum suggestion was also a good one. I know they use PEG >(Polyethylene >glycol) to saturate wood for preservation, but if this has already been >saturated with creosote then that might not work. > >But finding local experts is what they need to do. > >BK > > >On 9/26/06, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: >> >>The way we treat common mold on wood, or ROCKS here in the US is to use >>common household bleach - >> >>Amonia may work as well ?? >> >>NEVER MIX THE 2 !!!!!!! >> >>AMONIA & BLEACH MIXED TOGETHER CREATE A ( DEADLY GAS ) BEWARE - BE >>WARNED !!!!!!!! >> >>USE ONE OR THE OTHER - BUT NEVER BOTH TOGETHER- >> >>High potency, percentage 35 + % hydrogen peroxide, may work as well - >>Use alone as well... >> >>HYDROGEN PEROXIDE MAY BE THE BEST WAY - ALTHOUGH PERHAPS THE MOST >>EXPENSIVE ? >> >>You would most likely need to build a custom made tub to place the doors >>in and then fill up the tub with the solution you chose, so that whatever >>you use, completely covers / submerges the doors ! >> >>And you should dispose of all your used solution and mold legally - >> >>The amount of time the doors would need to be submerged ? Your guess is >>as good as mine-- >> >>I would suggest 24 hours no matter which ONE of the 3 liquids you use -- >> >>After treatment, scrub the doors with soft plastic brushes to remove >>surface mold, etc - Rinse with clean water - >> >>After doors are cleaned, re-apply another final surface coat of your mold >>cleaning liquid - >> >>Then, carefully lay flat with several wooden vices, etc etc to prevent >>warping - >> >>Drying time and methods would best be determined by an experienced wood >>professional. >> >>Good luck >> >>RocknLight >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: rower@start.no >>To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >>Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 4:08 AM >>Subject: [Rockhounds] Problems with mould >> >> >>Hi, >> >>Currently I am working for the Skuterud cobalt mines in Modum, Norway. >>(Part of >>the Blaafarveværket) >> >>The mine is in the process of being completely restored. >> >>In one of the tunnels we have some beautiful wooden doors from around >>1845, but >>these are completely covered by mould, even though have been impregnated >>with >>tar (or something similar). It seems as if the tar itself is feeding the >>mould! >> >>It is very damp in the mine and there is a lot of draught. >> >>Any suggestions as how to solve this problem once and for all. >> >>Some kind of chemical? >> >>Taking them outside the mine, drying and impregnating them with some kind >>of >>acrylic stuff? >> >>Thanks for any suggestions. >> >> >>Ronald Werner >>Norway >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>________________________________________________________________________ >>Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security >>tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, >>free AOL Mail and more. >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Sep 26 19:13:39 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Sep 26 19:13:43 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [OT] Engineers here and there, now and then. References: <200609270102.k8R12Lxv003471@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <4519DE4C.31C0@Tomaszewski.net> Software Engineer has multiple meanings. There is a broad/popular understanding that covers the practice of computer programming (as opposed to the theory of computing, which is computer science), and generates many job titles. There is also a narrow/academic/legal understanding (such as IEEE Standard 610.12), and some colleges grant Software Engineer degrees. In some countries Software Engineer is a regulated title. This understanding implies a systematic, disciplined, and quantifiable approach to the development, operation, and maintenence of computer software. Kreigh Bob Loeffler wrote: > > This also depends on the context or audience you are speaking to. Many > people in the software industry are considered "software engineers" or > "database engineers" or some other kind of engineer, even if they have never > taken any certified tests. They are just general titles that tell someone > that this person performs a certain job and works with certain tools (e.g. > databases). My title at work is "Implementation Engineer" but there is no > test or coursework that I can take to get "certified" as an engineer > (because what we do is proprietary and must be learned "on the job"). I > have been working with computers (fixing them, writing code, etc) since I > was 15 years old (and no, I'm not talking about playing video games), so > I've been learning about them for 23 years. When the average person on the > street asks me what my title is, I tell them "Implementation Engineer" and > that "I work with computer software and hardware". That's usually good > enough to satisfy their curiosity. But if a professional engineer asked me, > I would have to explain it more thoroughly and maybe not use the word > "engineer". > > Regards, > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Wimpee > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:25 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. > > Being an electrical engineer myself, I am acutely aware of many > classifications of the title "engineer". > > Most folks think of engineers as road builders or operators of big engines. > > The word is quite old in the world of oral and written communication and has > been used to describe those in vocations from garbage collectors or sanitary > sewer workers, maintenance personel, and most all types of builders, to very > highly educated professors and professionals of many engineering fields. > > Titles are awarded by states, i.e. "Registered Professional Engineer" or > "P.E." is one who has met the educational requirements for a degree from a > recognized college or university, passed the state Engineer in Training > "EIT" exam, then met the experience required working under a recognized P.E. > and then passed the state P.E. exam; Colleges and universities certify > "Graduate Engineers" as a step toward their P.E. and employers assign the > title to many varied jobs. These guys are typically "design engineers" and > "application engineers". > > Since the invention of engines and motors, those who operate and or maintain > these devices have been named engineers. > > So you just have to know what "kind" of engineer you are discussing. > Glenn > > > Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:49:16 -0700> From: roughrock@gmail.com> To: > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and > there, now and then.> > My brother works on a river boat that goes from New > Orleans north up> the Mississippi, Ohio, and a few other rivers. It's a tug > boat.> > His job title is engineer and his job is to keep the big diesel > engine> running, 24 hours a day, unless they are tied up and plugged into a> > land line. Engineers work on big engines, trains, boats, ships.> > On > 9/25/06, J.R. Hodel wrote:> > Hi:> >> > I saw a remark > about the number of engineers in various countries, and> > how determining > whether a person is what we now call an engineer or not,> > as the > descriptive word engineer may have different meanings at> > different times > and in different places.> >> > An example: my grandfather W. F. Henrichs was > an engineer at a mine> > near Beckley WV in the early 1900s . . . he was the > hoist engineer, as> > opposed to a steam engine engineer. He was also a > machinist in that he> > both operated the hoist and repaired it, usually by > fabing the> > replacement parts. In WW I he shoed mules. I suspect he had > a similar> > amount of respect as did the mining engineers who predicted > which way> > the coal ran, but that's hard to tell.> >> From dbomke at insightbb.com Tue Sep 26 19:17:50 2006 From: dbomke at insightbb.com (dbomke) Date: Tue Sep 26 19:17:36 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Show Announcement - Illinois Message-ID: <006201c6e1db$2222c7f0$6400a8c0@D5K94V21> This weekend, Saturday, September 30 and Sunday, October 1, the Lincoln Orbit Earth Science Society (LOESS) will hold it's annual "Gem, Mineral and Fossil Show". The show will be held at the Illinois Building on the State Fairgrounds in Springfield, Illinois. The hours of the show are Saturday - 10 am to 6 pm and Sunday - 10 am to 5 pm. Admission is $2.00 for adults, $1.00 for seniors over 65, and Scouts in Uniform, 4-H groups and children under 12 (with an adult) are admitted free. The show theme is "Jane, the T-Rex & Geodes". There will be a display of the T-Rex, Jane, from the Burpee Museum and 8 cases of geodes representing some of the great variety of geodes that can be found. 11 dealers will have Minerals, Fossils, Jewelry and Equipment. There will be more than a dozen demonstrators of a variety of lapidary techniques - exhibits of fossils, minerals, jewelry, meteorites and even more geodes - geode cracking - flint knapping - free mineral/rock IDs - a silent auction - many activities for kids - exhibits from the Illinois State Museum, Illinois State Geological Survey and Illinois Department of Natural Resources. On Saturday a swap will be held with a great mix of material from club members. There is plenty of free parking and food available on site. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Sep 26 19:26:58 2006 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Sep 26 19:27:00 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. Message-ID: As a professional courtesy, even professionals should recognize all by their job titles. There is no reason to be hoity toity or petty just because one is recognized by different groups, such as a state board or an employer. (Many regulators require a P.E. stamp for various projects, thus the need for certification. You certainly want to know the folks designing and building bridges, skyscrapers, high pressure pipelines, and mega-volt power lines are qualified to do it safely.) What one actually does should stand on its own merit. Titles and degrees do go a long way toward understanding what one is capable of in his field, but many factors cannot be pigeonholed into these categories. One may spend many years in a field and only touch a minute fraction of the many facets involved. I mentioned that I am an electrical engineer, but I only have a rudimentary knowledge of computer programming or software engineering. My work has been in power distribution and telephony. And these cross over with civil and mechanical fields. And I learn more about new technology daily, even with well over 30 years experience since college. Now rocks are much more fun! Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Stay connected with the news, people, places and online services that matter to you on Live.com http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx?icid=T001MSN30A0701 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From yfuqua at mchsi.com Mon Sep 25 21:57:13 2006 From: yfuqua at mchsi.com (Yvonne Fuqua) Date: Tue Sep 26 19:59:01 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] over 10 years Message-ID: <4518B329.1000002@mchsi.com> I believe it has been over 10 years since I have been to a rock hound pow-wow or the good sam (?) rock and mineral show. I miss them! I loved being able to go to the boxes and boxes of crystals and sorting through them to find my "gem" of a find! And they were inexpensive too. Where have those days gone? Why are there no shows like this in the mid west? I have been looking, but don't find any. Heck, even in the stores they want a lot for the different stones. I have a great liking to stones, their abilities, and the beauty they hold. If I could find a place here or a connection someplace. That would be great. Did I mention that now the centers of the stones are too small to even attempt to put them on leather. I thought a rondell meant the center was large enough to put on leather. Not anymore. I don't want necklaces made of fishing line or of metals. Now what do I do with all of these stones that won't fit like they should fit. 10 years ago they fit on leather even with room to move! and still have the spacer beads put on inbetween and ........... I miss all that. Yvone From darren at offtherackpro.com Wed Sep 27 01:19:27 2006 From: darren at offtherackpro.com (Darren D'Agostino) Date: Wed Sep 27 01:19:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New to the list, and a question Message-ID: <9E1A1556-0F4D-4EDC-A980-10ACEAFC67A9@offtherackpro.com> Hi I haven't looked into rocks and minerals since I was a kid so forgive any retardation in questions I may post. I'm currently working on a project and thought maybe you could offer some insights or at least some online links. I wanted to know what kinds of rocks you would find in the deserts of Arizona. I am aware that composition may vary since it is a large state, but a general idea would be nice. Large rock formations, mountains, boulders, rocks at cliff edges etc. I know it's vague but like I said my knowledge in this is area is extremely limited at best. Any info will be greatly appreciated. Thanks D From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Sep 27 04:13:44 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Sep 27 04:13:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New to the list, and a question In-Reply-To: <9E1A1556-0F4D-4EDC-A980-10ACEAFC67A9@offtherackpro.com> References: <9E1A1556-0F4D-4EDC-A980-10ACEAFC67A9@offtherackpro.com> Message-ID: Go to google, type in: geology arizona and you'll find all the info you need. BK On 9/27/06, Darren D'Agostino wrote: > > Hi > > I haven't looked into rocks and minerals since I was a kid so forgive > any retardation in questions I may post. > > I'm currently working on a project and thought maybe you could offer > some insights or at least some online links. > > I wanted to know what kinds of rocks you would find in the deserts of > Arizona. I am aware that composition may vary since it is a large > state, but a general idea would be nice. Large rock formations, > mountains, boulders, rocks at cliff edges etc. I know it's vague but > like I said my knowledge in this is area is extremely limited at > best. Any info will be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > > D > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Wed Sep 27 04:12:54 2006 From: gene at fossilnut.com (EUGENE HARTSTEIN) Date: Wed Sep 27 04:18:09 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [OT] Engineers here and there, now and then. References: <200609270102.k8R12Lxv003471@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4519DE4C.31C0@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <017101c6e225$e22ff960$6400a8c0@hppav> Hey, nobody has mentioned us chemical engineers. From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Sep 27 05:31:51 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Sep 27 05:31:57 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [OT] Engineers here and there, now and then. In-Reply-To: <017101c6e225$e22ff960$6400a8c0@hppav> References: <200609270102.k8R12Lxv003471@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4519DE4C.31C0@Tomaszewski.net> <017101c6e225$e22ff960$6400a8c0@hppav> Message-ID: Wow - there must not be much collecting going on when this OT thread garners the most posts on the list On 9/27/06, EUGENE HARTSTEIN wrote: > > Hey, nobody has mentioned us chemical engineers. > -- From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Sep 27 06:07:21 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Sep 27 06:07:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fall Fieldtrip Reports Message-ID: Here in New England, fall is a wonderful time to get out and collect. A week or so ago my club (Boston Mineral Club) made its annual pilgrimage to the Palermo No. 1 mine in Groton, NH. It was one of those delightful early fall days with temperatures in the 70s that makes for perfect collecting weather. The mine owner, Bob Whitmore, is a gracious host and permits many New England clubs to come and collect at no charge. If you have not heard of Palermo it is a World Class phosphate locality that Bob has recently documented in an amazing book containing hand drawn illustrations by Fred Wilda instead of the usual photographs. (but I digress). While we were there Bob took us a short way down into the mine to show us his "cooler" for soft drinks. The light from his lamp highlighted the residual ice from last winter that still lingered at the bottom of one chamber. Bob has been doing blasting at the entrance so that he can move his compressor down into the mine to do work on one of the chambers next year and we initially did some collecting in some of the rubble from that blast. Other than some green manganapatite crystals I did not find much there. My best specimens of the day came from working a large boulder containing an altered triphylite pod that was up the hill to the side and behind the main mine entrance. A small vug with a cluster of lustrous green ludlamite crystals about 5 mm in size was a pleasant surprise. My first self-collected ludlamite and they are even visible without magnification! The same boulder yielded some other vugs that I have yet to clean in the ultrasonic cleaner and study under the microscope. I also was able to take out all of my aggression trying to rescue some quartz crystals from one of a number of visible vugs in the existing quartz exposure nearby. Oh well, at least I didn't break ALL of the small crystals that were in there. The view from up top over the New Hampshire hills was spectacular with just a few touches of red amongst the green. On the way out there is a small pond to the right of the mine road that was picture-perfect with a couple of bright red trees showing off their early fall foliage. I took that photo to help me remember a good day outdoors, socializing with friends, getting some exercise and looking for treasures in the earth. All that and ludlamite too....it doesn't often get any better than that! Nate Martin P.S. - how about the rest of you...any other Fall fieldtrip stories out there? From albalmer at att.net Wed Sep 27 08:07:09 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Sep 27 08:07:13 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [OT] Engineers here and there, now and then. In-Reply-To: <4519DE4C.31C0@Tomaszewski.net> References: <200609270102.k8R12Lxv003471@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4519DE4C.31C0@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 22:13:39 -0400, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >Software Engineer has multiple meanings. > >There is a broad/popular understanding that covers the practice of >computer programming (as opposed to the theory of computing, which is >computer science), and generates many job titles. Many in the computer business would argue that a "software engineer" is more than a programmer. Typically, one would expect a software engineer to have an understanding of all aspects of designing, implementing, delivering, and maintaining a product. > >There is also a narrow/academic/legal understanding (such as IEEE >Standard 610.12), That standard is only a glossary, not a detailed definition, and doesn't have any particular legal force. Here's how it defines software engineering (as you note below): 1. The application of a systematic, disciplined, quantifiable approach to the development, operation, and maintenance of software; that is, the application of engineering to software. 2. The study of approaches as in (1). > and some colleges grant Software Engineer degrees. In >some countries Software Engineer is a regulated title. This >understanding implies a systematic, disciplined, and quantifiable >approach to the development, operation, and maintenence of computer >software. > >Kreigh > > > > >Bob Loeffler wrote: >> >> This also depends on the context or audience you are speaking to. Many >> people in the software industry are considered "software engineers" or >> "database engineers" or some other kind of engineer, even if they have never >> taken any certified tests. They are just general titles that tell someone >> that this person performs a certain job and works with certain tools (e.g. >> databases). My title at work is "Implementation Engineer" but there is no >> test or coursework that I can take to get "certified" as an engineer >> (because what we do is proprietary and must be learned "on the job"). I >> have been working with computers (fixing them, writing code, etc) since I >> was 15 years old (and no, I'm not talking about playing video games), so >> I've been learning about them for 23 years. When the average person on the >> street asks me what my title is, I tell them "Implementation Engineer" and >> that "I work with computer software and hardware". That's usually good >> enough to satisfy their curiosity. But if a professional engineer asked me, >> I would have to explain it more thoroughly and maybe not use the word >> "engineer". >> >> Regards, >> >> Bob >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Wimpee >> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:25 PM >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. >> >> Being an electrical engineer myself, I am acutely aware of many >> classifications of the title "engineer". >> >> Most folks think of engineers as road builders or operators of big engines. >> >> The word is quite old in the world of oral and written communication and has >> been used to describe those in vocations from garbage collectors or sanitary >> sewer workers, maintenance personel, and most all types of builders, to very >> highly educated professors and professionals of many engineering fields. >> >> Titles are awarded by states, i.e. "Registered Professional Engineer" or >> "P.E." is one who has met the educational requirements for a degree from a >> recognized college or university, passed the state Engineer in Training >> "EIT" exam, then met the experience required working under a recognized P.E. >> and then passed the state P.E. exam; Colleges and universities certify >> "Graduate Engineers" as a step toward their P.E. and employers assign the >> title to many varied jobs. These guys are typically "design engineers" and >> "application engineers". >> >> Since the invention of engines and motors, those who operate and or maintain >> these devices have been named engineers. >> >> So you just have to know what "kind" of engineer you are discussing. >> Glenn >> >> > Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:49:16 -0700> From: roughrock@gmail.com> To: >> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and >> there, now and then.> > My brother works on a river boat that goes from New >> Orleans north up> the Mississippi, Ohio, and a few other rivers. It's a tug >> boat.> > His job title is engineer and his job is to keep the big diesel >> engine> running, 24 hours a day, unless they are tied up and plugged into a> >> land line. Engineers work on big engines, trains, boats, ships.> > On >> 9/25/06, J.R. Hodel wrote:> > Hi:> >> > I saw a remark >> about the number of engineers in various countries, and> > how determining >> whether a person is what we now call an engineer or not,> > as the >> descriptive word engineer may have different meanings at> > different times >> and in different places.> >> > An example: my grandfather W. F. Henrichs was >> an engineer at a mine> > near Beckley WV in the early 1900s . . . he was the >> hoist engineer, as> > opposed to a steam engine engineer. He was also a >> machinist in that he> > both operated the hoist and repaired it, usually by >> fabing the> > replacement parts. In WW I he shoed mules. I suspect he had >> a similar> > amount of respect as did the mining engineers who predicted >> which way> > the coal ran, but that's hard to tell.> >> -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Sep 27 08:11:47 2006 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Sep 27 08:11:51 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [OT] Engineers here and there, now and then. In-Reply-To: References: <200609270102.k8R12Lxv003471@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4519DE4C.31C0@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Well when I went thru UF they were doing engineering degrees in ISE, Industrial and Systems Engineering which wasn't exactly a software engineering degree but they took a lot of computer/programming courses. A lot of EEs seem to end up programming BK On 9/27/06, Al Balmer wrote: > > On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 22:13:39 -0400, Kreigh Tomaszewski > wrote: > > >Software Engineer has multiple meanings. > > > >There is a broad/popular understanding that covers the practice of > >computer programming (as opposed to the theory of computing, which is > >computer science), and generates many job titles. > > Many in the computer business would argue that a "software engineer" > is more than a programmer. Typically, one would expect a software > engineer to have an understanding of all aspects of designing, > implementing, delivering, and maintaining a product. > > > >There is also a narrow/academic/legal understanding (such as IEEE > >Standard 610.12), > > That standard is only a glossary, not a detailed definition, and > doesn't have any particular legal force. Here's how it defines > software engineering (as you note below): > 1. The application of a systematic, disciplined, quantifiable approach > to the development, operation, and maintenance of software; that is, > the application of engineering to software. 2. The study of approaches > as in (1). > > > and some colleges grant Software Engineer degrees. In > >some countries Software Engineer is a regulated title. This > >understanding implies a systematic, disciplined, and quantifiable > >approach to the development, operation, and maintenence of computer > >software. > > > >Kreigh > > > > > > > > > >Bob Loeffler wrote: > >> > >> This also depends on the context or audience you are speaking to. Many > >> people in the software industry are considered "software engineers" or > >> "database engineers" or some other kind of engineer, even if they have > never > >> taken any certified tests. They are just general titles that tell > someone > >> that this person performs a certain job and works with certain tools ( > e.g. > >> databases). My title at work is "Implementation Engineer" but there is > no > >> test or coursework that I can take to get "certified" as an engineer > >> (because what we do is proprietary and must be learned "on the > job"). I > >> have been working with computers (fixing them, writing code, etc) since > I > >> was 15 years old (and no, I'm not talking about playing video games), > so > >> I've been learning about them for 23 years. When the average person on > the > >> street asks me what my title is, I tell them "Implementation Engineer" > and > >> that "I work with computer software and hardware". That's usually good > >> enough to satisfy their curiosity. But if a professional engineer > asked me, > >> I would have to explain it more thoroughly and maybe not use the word > >> "engineer". > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Bob > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Wimpee > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:25 PM > >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. > >> > >> Being an electrical engineer myself, I am acutely aware of many > >> classifications of the title "engineer". > >> > >> Most folks think of engineers as road builders or operators of big > engines. > >> > >> The word is quite old in the world of oral and written communication > and has > >> been used to describe those in vocations from garbage collectors or > sanitary > >> sewer workers, maintenance personel, and most all types of builders, to > very > >> highly educated professors and professionals of many engineering > fields. > >> > >> Titles are awarded by states, i.e. "Registered Professional > Engineer" or > >> "P.E." is one who has met the educational requirements for a degree > from a > >> recognized college or university, passed the state Engineer in Training > >> "EIT" exam, then met the experience required working under a recognized > P.E. > >> and then passed the state P.E. exam; Colleges and universities certify > >> "Graduate Engineers" as a step toward their P.E. and employers assign > the > >> title to many varied jobs. These guys are typically "design engineers" > and > >> "application engineers". > >> > >> Since the invention of engines and motors, those who operate and or > maintain > >> these devices have been named engineers. > >> > >> So you just have to know what "kind" of engineer you are discussing. > >> Glenn > >> > >> > Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:49:16 -0700> From: roughrock@gmail.com> To: > >> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Engineers here > and > >> there, now and then.> > My brother works on a river boat that goes from > New > >> Orleans north up> the Mississippi, Ohio, and a few other rivers. It's a > tug > >> boat.> > His job title is engineer and his job is to keep the big > diesel > >> engine> running, 24 hours a day, unless they are tied up and plugged > into a> > >> land line. Engineers work on big engines, trains, boats, ships.> > On > >> 9/25/06, J.R. Hodel wrote:> > Hi:> >> > I saw a > remark > >> about the number of engineers in various countries, and> > how > determining > >> whether a person is what we now call an engineer or not,> > as the > >> descriptive word engineer may have different meanings at> > different > times > >> and in different places.> >> > An example: my grandfather W. F. > Henrichs was > >> an engineer at a mine> > near Beckley WV in the early 1900s . . . he > was the > >> hoist engineer, as> > opposed to a steam engine engineer. He was also > a > >> machinist in that he> > both operated the hoist and repaired it, > usually by > >> fabing the> > replacement parts. In WW I he shoed mules. I suspect he > had > >> a similar> > amount of respect as did the mining engineers who > predicted > >> which way> > the coal ran, but that's hard to tell.> >> > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Wed Sep 27 11:51:09 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Wed Sep 27 11:51:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fall Fieldtrip Reports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060927185109.CCC4A4D456@io.frii.com> > ...how about the rest of you...any other Fall fieldtrip stories out > there? OK, since you asked... A few days ago on Sunday, I got a chance to visit Grays Quarry in Wyoming for the fourth time. This is a large limestone quarry on private property (the Grays are local ranchers) about 7 miles north of Glendo, in east-central Wyoming, cut into the SW side of a hill on the west bank of the North Platte River. The hill is perhaps 200' high, and the quarry highwall is 100-150' high at points (although terraced). The limestone is heavily altered by silicification, and it features a mind-numbing variety of colorful druzy quartz coated vugs, agates, and jaspers. (Incidentally, much of this same type of material can be found at many local highway outcrops or around Glendo Reservoir.) >From Fort Collins, CO, the drive is about 155 miles and 2+ hours one way. I'd hoped to head up Saturday morning with a kayak, camp on the north bay of Glendo Reservoir, and spend the afternoon collecting solid, pretty vein agates (up to 3" or so thick) on the shorelines, which is legal with prior notice to the state park. Unfortunately we had a couple of pre-winter cold fronts arrive Wed-Fri, and the weather Saturday was cold and wet. Worse, the lake had dropped 40' since I was last there in June, and calling ahead, I learned there was no longer a north bay! I gave up and just did a day trip to the quarry. Sunday morning I could see that the north bay was now mile-wide mud flats with a trickle of river running through it, and cows munching on vegetation on the drier parts. However, the Sunday weather was excellent, with fog remnants milling about the Platte valley as we arrived about 10:15 in Glendo and about 10:45 at the quarry. There were 6 vehicles and about 15 people in our small group, following the lead of the president of the Cheyenne club. The quarry floor was wet and muddy in spots! It apparently had rained overnight. Some of us stayed until 6 pm (local sunset 7 pm) digging, busting up boulders, and/or surface collecting. It was sunny, cool to warm, and breezy to windy at times, which is fair weather in Wyoming! Every time to the quarry the terrain is different as they blast and haul rubble to the crushers for roadbuilding. This time I didn't luck into any great vugs or veins, unlike the previous three trips, but still brought home about eight 3-gal buckets of material to sort, ranging from display pieces to tumbling material. I did try digging one hole into shattered bedrock, and it was easy to take apart as usual, but this particular location yielded only white to yellow mini-botryoidal coatings, no blue/purple druzy (the real prize) and/or calcite crystals (dogtooths, or masses up to inches across). In another spot I could only find rubble, no bedrock. I spent a lot of the time surface-collecting over the top of the hill with friends. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From albalmer at att.net Wed Sep 27 12:03:38 2006 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Wed Sep 27 12:03:42 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: [OT] Engineers here and there, now and then. In-Reply-To: References: <200609270102.k8R12Lxv003471@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4519DE4C.31C0@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <9jilh21chv641sfgnnfjvoitrdhhgc225s@4ax.com> On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 11:11:47 -0400, "J Bryan Kramer" wrote: > >A lot of EEs seem to end up programming When schools first started issuing CS degrees, we used to say "It's easier to teach an engineer to program than to teach a programmer engineering." -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Sep 27 13:54:29 2006 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Sep 27 13:54:32 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fall Fieldtrip Reports In-Reply-To: <20060927185109.CCC4A4D456@io.frii.com> References: <20060927185109.CCC4A4D456@io.frii.com> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Thanks for your report. Out of curiousity, what caused the 40' drop in the level of the reservoir? That sounds like more than just evaporation over the summer! Nate Martin On 9/27/06, Alan Silverstein wrote: > > ...how about the rest of you...any other Fall fieldtrip stories out > > there? > > OK, since you asked... A few days ago on Sunday, I got a chance to > visit Grays Quarry in Wyoming for the fourth time. This is a large > limestone quarry on private property (the Grays are local ranchers) > about 7 miles north of Glendo, in east-central Wyoming, cut into the SW > side of a hill on the west bank of the North Platte River. The hill is > perhaps 200' high, and the quarry highwall is 100-150' high at points > (although terraced). The limestone is heavily altered by > silicification, and it features a mind-numbing variety of colorful druzy > quartz coated vugs, agates, and jaspers. > > (Incidentally, much of this same type of material can be found at many > local highway outcrops or around Glendo Reservoir.) > > >From Fort Collins, CO, the drive is about 155 miles and 2+ hours one > way. I'd hoped to head up Saturday morning with a kayak, camp on the > north bay of Glendo Reservoir, and spend the afternoon collecting solid, > pretty vein agates (up to 3" or so thick) on the shorelines, which is > legal with prior notice to the state park. > > Unfortunately we had a couple of pre-winter cold fronts arrive Wed-Fri, > and the weather Saturday was cold and wet. Worse, the lake had dropped > 40' since I was last there in June, and calling ahead, I learned there > was no longer a north bay! I gave up and just did a day trip to the > quarry. Sunday morning I could see that the north bay was now mile-wide > mud flats with a trickle of river running through it, and cows munching > on vegetation on the drier parts. > > However, the Sunday weather was excellent, with fog remnants milling > about the Platte valley as we arrived about 10:15 in Glendo and about > 10:45 at the quarry. There were 6 vehicles and about 15 people in our > small group, following the lead of the president of the Cheyenne club. > The quarry floor was wet and muddy in spots! It apparently had rained > overnight. > > Some of us stayed until 6 pm (local sunset 7 pm) digging, busting up > boulders, and/or surface collecting. It was sunny, cool to warm, and > breezy to windy at times, which is fair weather in Wyoming! > > Every time to the quarry the terrain is different as they blast and haul > rubble to the crushers for roadbuilding. This time I didn't luck into > any great vugs or veins, unlike the previous three trips, but still > brought home about eight 3-gal buckets of material to sort, ranging from > display pieces to tumbling material. > > I did try digging one hole into shattered bedrock, and it was easy to > take apart as usual, but this particular location yielded only white to > yellow mini-botryoidal coatings, no blue/purple druzy (the real prize) > and/or calcite crystals (dogtooths, or masses up to inches across). In > another spot I could only find rubble, no bedrock. I spent a lot of the > time surface-collecting over the top of the hill with friends. > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rower at start.no Wed Sep 27 14:30:44 2006 From: rower at start.no (Ronald Werner) Date: Wed Sep 27 14:49:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mold problems References: Message-ID: <003101c6e27e$bea9e600$e7b59fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> Many thanks for these good and useful suggestions. I already adviced my boss to take the entire door construction out of the mine for drying. Treatment as you suggested should be possible since those chemicals are non-problematic in Norway. The treatment with the mildew-resistant paint might be more tricky, because the wood has been treated with tar/creosole. We will have to find some kind of impregnation suitable for this case. After installing the doors back in the mine they will get wet again. It's a very wet mine, with water dripping everywhere and generally high humidity. The mold has already spread to other tree-work and I foresee extensive work to try to keep the situation under control. Anyway, with the suggested procedures we can maybe stabilize the situation. I reckon the treatment must be repeated maybe every single year. I think they should buy some kind of spray-system and treat the entire mine before the start of the summer season. Keeping the entire mine dry is like trying to empty the ocean... Ronald Norway >I am actually now a certified mold inspector here in California. The truth >is, you will probably never get rid of the mold completely, especially >since it appears to be in the wood. Virtually all wood has mold in it to >various degrees, the trick is to make sure it doesn't grow worse. The best >way to treat wood with mold is to scrub it with a solution of one cup Borax >per 1 gallon (4 liters) of water. Once this is done, rinse with water and >dry thoroughly..mold needs water to grow. If mold is still very bad, it is >suggested to add 8 to 10 tablespoons of trisodium phosphate to your >Borax/water solution (increase strength if necessary. Three tablespoons of >oxalic acid to 1 pint water can also be used if if the other solutions did >not work. Rinse everything with clean water and dry..keep drying. Then, >the wood should be repainted if possible with good quality mildew-resistant >paint (fungicides). This is called encapsulation. I hope this information >helps. Don't use bleach..it is effective in certain situations (i.e. mold >on windostills and in bathrooms), but probably wouldn't be good here. > > Andrew Turner > Victorville, California > > >>From: "J Bryan Kramer" >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] BLEACH or AMONIA or HYDROGEN PEROXIDE Problems >>withmould >>Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:02:10 -0400 >> >>Have you ever treated wood with 35% Hydrogen Peroxide? My first thought >>would be that it would cause irreparable damage. And I also thought that >>this could be hazardous and looking at the H2O2 MSDS sheet I see wood is >>specifically listed as one of the incompatible materials, fire and >>explosion >>may result from contact. >> >>Plus these doors are apparently saturated with tar or creosote, mixing >>powerful oxidizers with unknown organics is a quick way to disaster. >> >>If certain chemical applications are not in your area of expertise you >>should be very careful about telling people to do something. Something >>that >>could result in serious injury or worse. >> >>Bleach would probably also damage the wood, though maybe not as badly. >> >>That's why I suggested he try contacting some people at the nearest >>university, the foresty department probably has a wood products group. >>Here >>in the US anyway they work with wood preservation among other subjects. >> >>The museum suggestion was also a good one. I know they use PEG >>(Polyethylene >>glycol) to saturate wood for preservation, but if this has already been >>saturated with creosote then that might not work. >> >>But finding local experts is what they need to do. >> >>BK >> >> >>On 9/26/06, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: >>> >>>The way we treat common mold on wood, or ROCKS here in the US is to use >>>common household bleach - >>> >>>Amonia may work as well ?? >>> >>>NEVER MIX THE 2 !!!!!!! >>> >>>AMONIA & BLEACH MIXED TOGETHER CREATE A ( DEADLY GAS ) BEWARE - BE >>>WARNED !!!!!!!! >>> >>>USE ONE OR THE OTHER - BUT NEVER BOTH TOGETHER- >>> >>>High potency, percentage 35 + % hydrogen peroxide, may work as well - >>>Use alone as well... >>> >>>HYDROGEN PEROXIDE MAY BE THE BEST WAY - ALTHOUGH PERHAPS THE MOST >>>EXPENSIVE ? >>> >>>You would most likely need to build a custom made tub to place the doors >>>in and then fill up the tub with the solution you chose, so that whatever >>>you use, completely covers / submerges the doors ! >>> >>>And you should dispose of all your used solution and mold legally - >>> >>>The amount of time the doors would need to be submerged ? Your guess is >>>as good as mine-- >>> >>>I would suggest 24 hours no matter which ONE of the 3 liquids you use -- >>> >>>After treatment, scrub the doors with soft plastic brushes to remove >>>surface mold, etc - Rinse with clean water - >>> >>>After doors are cleaned, re-apply another final surface coat of your mold >>>cleaning liquid - >>> >>>Then, carefully lay flat with several wooden vices, etc etc to prevent >>>warping - >>> >>>Drying time and methods would best be determined by an experienced wood >>>professional. >>> >>>Good luck >>> >>>RocknLight >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: rower@start.no >>>To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >>>Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 4:08 AM >>>Subject: [Rockhounds] Problems with mould >>> >>> >>>Hi, >>> >>>Currently I am working for the Skuterud cobalt mines in Modum, Norway. >>>(Part of >>>the Blaafarvev?rket) >>> >>>The mine is in the process of being completely restored. >>> >>>In one of the tunnels we have some beautiful wooden doors from around >>>1845, but >>>these are completely covered by mould, even though have been impregnated >>>with >>>tar (or something similar). It seems as if the tar itself is feeding the >>>mould! >>> >>>It is very damp in the mine and there is a lot of draught. >>> >>>Any suggestions as how to solve this problem once and for all. >>> >>>Some kind of chemical? >>> >>>Taking them outside the mine, drying and impregnating them with some kind >>>of >>>acrylic stuff? >>> >>>Thanks for any suggestions. >>> >>> >>>Ronald Werner >>>Norway >>> >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>>--- >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>List Home Page: >>>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>>________________________________________________________________________ >>>Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and >>>security >>>tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the >>>web, >>>free AOL Mail and more. >>> >>> >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>>--- >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>List Home Page: >>>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Sep 27 15:47:00 2006 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Sep 27 15:45:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Skutterud mines References: <200609270100.k8R10lcv003080@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <015d01c6e286$d8d74740$6b01a8c0@rock3> Ronald, It sounds like the mine you are working in might be the type locality for Skutterudite. Can you confirm that? Is the restoration work being done for tourist purposes or for a resumption of mining? Are the deep levels of the mine to be opened as well? Rock From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Sep 27 15:56:44 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Sep 27 15:56:52 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] arizona geology Message-ID: If the person who asked about the geoalogy of Arizona will contact me off-list I have some information. Grant roughrock@gmail.com From roughrock at gmail.com Wed Sep 27 15:59:37 2006 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Wed Sep 27 15:59:40 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New to the list, and a question In-Reply-To: <9E1A1556-0F4D-4EDC-A980-10ACEAFC67A9@offtherackpro.com> References: <9E1A1556-0F4D-4EDC-A980-10ACEAFC67A9@offtherackpro.com> Message-ID: On 9/27/06, Darren D'Agostino wrote: > Hi > > I haven't looked into rocks and minerals since I was a kid so forgive > any retardation in questions I may post. > > I'm currently working on a project and thought maybe you could offer > some insights or at least some online links. > > I wanted to know what kinds of rocks you would find in the deserts of > Arizona. I am aware that composition may vary since it is a large > state, but a general idea would be nice. Large rock formations, > mountains, boulders, rocks at cliff edges etc. I know it's vague but > like I said my knowledge in this is area is extremely limited at > best. Any info will be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > > D > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 27 17:59:19 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 27 17:56:20 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] over 10 years References: <4518B329.1000002@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <451B1DA9.52B4@Tomaszewski.net> Yvonne, There are still many rock shows in the MidWest. The best way to find them is through a local rock club. I suggest you go to http://www.amfed.org and find a club in your area. If they don't host an annual show, they will have information from other clubs in your region or state that do host shows. Kreigh Yvonne Fuqua wrote: > > I believe it has been over 10 years since I have been to a rock hound > pow-wow or the good sam (?) rock and mineral show. I miss them! I > loved being able to go to the boxes and boxes of crystals and sorting > through them to find my "gem" of a find! And they were inexpensive too. > > Where have those days gone? > > Why are there no shows like this in the mid west? > > I have been looking, but don't find any. > > Heck, even in the stores they want a lot for the different stones. > > I have a great liking to stones, their abilities, and the beauty they > hold. If I could find a place here or a connection someplace. That > would be great. > > Did I mention that now the centers of the stones are too small to even > attempt to put them on leather. I thought a rondell meant the center > was large enough to put on leather. Not anymore. I don't want > necklaces made of fishing line or of metals. Now what do I do with all > of these stones that won't fit like they should fit. 10 years ago they > fit on leather even with room to move! and still have the spacer beads > put on inbetween and ........... > > I miss all that. > > Yvone > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From ajs at frii.com Wed Sep 27 18:13:18 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Wed Sep 27 18:13:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fall Fieldtrip Reports In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060928011318.CB2AF4D456@io.frii.com> > Out of curiousity, what caused the 40' drop in the level of the > reservoir? That sounds like more than just evaporation over the > summer! Most of the western US is a desert. Most reservoirs in this part of the world go through large annual swings as they capture winter snowmelt runoff and then feed it downstream for the rest of the year, mainly for agriculture use during the growing season. We take it for granted. Many rivers are only floatable, and lakes only boatable, during the peak flow/storage months. Even Lake Powell, Utah (26 MAF when full) swings 30-60' in elevation annually (approximate numbers based on memory), and that's if the successive winters are roughly similar. The spring before last, the lake rose nearly 60'. Alan From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Sep 27 18:26:51 2006 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Sep 27 18:23:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mold problems References: <003101c6e27e$bea9e600$e7b59fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> Message-ID: <451B2418.50CB@Tomaszewski.net> Ronald, When archaeologists find ancient wood preserved in a wet environment they retain the wet environment until an expert can advise them on the proper way to treat/preserve/dry the find. Old wood that has been wet for a long time often crumbles when dried, and preservation steps must be taken while it is still wet. I would suggest you should get expert advice before you remove the doors. Kreigh Ronald Werner wrote: > > Many thanks for these good and useful suggestions. I already adviced my boss > to take the entire door construction out of the mine for drying. Treatment > as you suggested should be possible since those chemicals are > non-problematic in Norway. > > The treatment with the mildew-resistant paint might be more tricky, because > the wood has been treated with tar/creosole. We will have to find some kind > of impregnation suitable for this case. > > After installing the doors back in the mine they will get wet again. It's a > very wet mine, with water dripping everywhere and generally high humidity. > The mold has already spread to other tree-work and I foresee extensive work > to try to keep the situation under control. > > Anyway, with the suggested procedures we can maybe stabilize the situation. > I reckon the treatment must be repeated maybe every single year. I think > they should buy some kind of spray-system and treat the entire mine before > the start of the summer season. > > Keeping the entire mine dry is like trying to empty the ocean... > > Ronald > Norway > > >I am actually now a certified mold inspector here in California. The truth > >is, you will probably never get rid of the mold completely, especially > >since it appears to be in the wood. Virtually all wood has mold in it to > >various degrees, the trick is to make sure it doesn't grow worse. The best > >way to treat wood with mold is to scrub it with a solution of one cup Borax > >per 1 gallon (4 liters) of water. Once this is done, rinse with water and > >dry thoroughly..mold needs water to grow. If mold is still very bad, it is > >suggested to add 8 to 10 tablespoons of trisodium phosphate to your > >Borax/water solution (increase strength if necessary. Three tablespoons of > >oxalic acid to 1 pint water can also be used if if the other solutions did > >not work. Rinse everything with clean water and dry..keep drying. Then, > >the wood should be repainted if possible with good quality mildew-resistant > >paint (fungicides). This is called encapsulation. I hope this information > >helps. Don't use bleach..it is effective in certain situations (i.e. mold > >on windostills and in bathrooms), but probably wouldn't be good here. > > > > Andrew Turner > > Victorville, California > > > > > >>From: "J Bryan Kramer" > >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >>collectors" > >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >>collectors" > >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] BLEACH or AMONIA or HYDROGEN PEROXIDE Problems > >>withmould > >>Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:02:10 -0400 > >> > >>Have you ever treated wood with 35% Hydrogen Peroxide? My first thought > >>would be that it would cause irreparable damage. And I also thought that > >>this could be hazardous and looking at the H2O2 MSDS sheet I see wood is > >>specifically listed as one of the incompatible materials, fire and > >>explosion > >>may result from contact. > >> > >>Plus these doors are apparently saturated with tar or creosote, mixing > >>powerful oxidizers with unknown organics is a quick way to disaster. > >> > >>If certain chemical applications are not in your area of expertise you > >>should be very careful about telling people to do something. Something > >>that > >>could result in serious injury or worse. > >> > >>Bleach would probably also damage the wood, though maybe not as badly. > >> > >>That's why I suggested he try contacting some people at the nearest > >>university, the foresty department probably has a wood products group. > >>Here > >>in the US anyway they work with wood preservation among other subjects. > >> > >>The museum suggestion was also a good one. I know they use PEG > >>(Polyethylene > >>glycol) to saturate wood for preservation, but if this has already been > >>saturated with creosote then that might not work. > >> > >>But finding local experts is what they need to do. > >> > >>BK > >> > >> > >>On 9/26/06, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: > >>> > >>>The way we treat common mold on wood, or ROCKS here in the US is to use > >>>common household bleach - > >>> > >>>Amonia may work as well ?? > >>> > >>>NEVER MIX THE 2 !!!!!!! > >>> > >>>AMONIA & BLEACH MIXED TOGETHER CREATE A ( DEADLY GAS ) BEWARE - BE > >>>WARNED !!!!!!!! > >>> > >>>USE ONE OR THE OTHER - BUT NEVER BOTH TOGETHER- > >>> > >>>High potency, percentage 35 + % hydrogen peroxide, may work as well - > >>>Use alone as well... > >>> > >>>HYDROGEN PEROXIDE MAY BE THE BEST WAY - ALTHOUGH PERHAPS THE MOST > >>>EXPENSIVE ? > >>> > >>>You would most likely need to build a custom made tub to place the doors > >>>in and then fill up the tub with the solution you chose, so that whatever > >>>you use, completely covers / submerges the doors ! > >>> > >>>And you should dispose of all your used solution and mold legally - > >>> > >>>The amount of time the doors would need to be submerged ? Your guess is > >>>as good as mine-- > >>> > >>>I would suggest 24 hours no matter which ONE of the 3 liquids you use -- > >>> > >>>After treatment, scrub the doors with soft plastic brushes to remove > >>>surface mold, etc - Rinse with clean water - > >>> > >>>After doors are cleaned, re-apply another final surface coat of your mold > >>>cleaning liquid - > >>> > >>>Then, carefully lay flat with several wooden vices, etc etc to prevent > >>>warping - > >>> > >>>Drying time and methods would best be determined by an experienced wood > >>>professional. > >>> > >>>Good luck > >>> > >>>RocknLight > >>> > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>>From: rower@start.no > >>>To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >>>Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 4:08 AM > >>>Subject: [Rockhounds] Problems with mould > >>> > >>> > >>>Hi, > >>> > >>>Currently I am working for the Skuterud cobalt mines in Modum, Norway. > >>>(Part of > >>>the Blaafarvev?rket) > >>> > >>>The mine is in the process of being completely restored. > >>> > >>>In one of the tunnels we have some beautiful wooden doors from around > >>>1845, but > >>>these are completely covered by mould, even though have been impregnated > >>>with > >>>tar (or something similar). It seems as if the tar itself is feeding the > >>>mould! > >>> > >>>It is very damp in the mine and there is a lot of draught. > >>> > >>>Any suggestions as how to solve this problem once and for all. > >>> > >>>Some kind of chemical? > >>> > >>>Taking them outside the mine, drying and impregnating them with some kind > >>>of > >>>acrylic stuff? > >>> > >>>Thanks for any suggestions. > >>> > >>> > >>>Ronald Werner > >>>Norway From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 27 18:56:01 2006 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Wed Sep 27 18:56:04 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New to the list, and a question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20060928015601.40021.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com> You are right Big State lots of rocks and there are are all types and textures. Can you provide a specific location so we can consult the state geological map? Eman --- Grant Johnston wrote: > On 9/27/06, Darren D'Agostino > wrote: > > Hi > > > > I haven't looked into rocks and minerals since I > was a kid so forgive > > any retardation in questions I may post. > > > > I'm currently working on a project and thought > maybe you could offer > > some insights or at least some online links. > > > > I wanted to know what kinds of rocks you would > find in the deserts of > > Arizona. I am aware that composition may vary > since it is a large > > state, but a general idea would be nice. Large > rock formations, > > mountains, boulders, rocks at cliff edges etc. I > know it's vague but > > like I said my knowledge in this is area is > extremely limited at > > best. Any info will be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > > > D > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From smtravis at plateautel.net Wed Sep 27 19:57:30 2006 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Wed Sep 27 19:59:35 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. References: <200609270102.k8R12Lxv003471@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <009601c6e2a9$d7e29920$f51171ce@marilyn> I am a licensed professional Geologist P. G. Some abbreviate it P. Geo. My title is Senior Engineer and has been for many years. I work as most of you know for the Department of Energy. Ever since I graduated over 30 years ago my employers have been trying to make me into an Engineer I have even taken many hours of graduate course work in Engineering. first it was a Petroleum Engineer to make reservoir calculations/estimations an production enhancements. Then environmental engineer . It seems that no matter that many States and nations nave designations as what an engineer is the shortage of trained /experienced personnel will keep employers stretching the definition of "Engineer" way past train driver. All the Best I'm sure I have P.O. ed some out there. I usually do when I write on the list Keep on Rockin It's lots more fun. I'm heading out to dig fireagate. turquoise, black and red agate and a plethora of copper minerals in W. NM and E. Arizona. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:02 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. > This also depends on the context or audience you are speaking to. Many > people in the software industry are considered "software engineers" or > "database engineers" or some other kind of engineer, even if they have > never > taken any certified tests. They are just general titles that tell someone > that this person performs a certain job and works with certain tools (e.g. > databases). My title at work is "Implementation Engineer" but there is no > test or coursework that I can take to get "certified" as an engineer > (because what we do is proprietary and must be learned "on the job"). I > have been working with computers (fixing them, writing code, etc) since I > was 15 years old (and no, I'm not talking about playing video games), so > I've been learning about them for 23 years. When the average person on > the > street asks me what my title is, I tell them "Implementation Engineer" and > that "I work with computer software and hardware". That's usually good > enough to satisfy their curiosity. But if a professional engineer asked > me, > I would have to explain it more thoroughly and maybe not use the word > "engineer". > > Regards, > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Wimpee > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:25 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and there, now and then. > > Being an electrical engineer myself, I am acutely aware of many > classifications of the title "engineer". > > Most folks think of engineers as road builders or operators of big > engines. > > The word is quite old in the world of oral and written communication and > has > been used to describe those in vocations from garbage collectors or > sanitary > sewer workers, maintenance personel, and most all types of builders, to > very > highly educated professors and professionals of many engineering fields. > > Titles are awarded by states, i.e. "Registered Professional Engineer" or > "P.E." is one who has met the educational requirements for a degree from a > recognized college or university, passed the state Engineer in Training > "EIT" exam, then met the experience required working under a recognized > P.E. > and then passed the state P.E. exam; Colleges and universities certify > "Graduate Engineers" as a step toward their P.E. and employers assign the > title to many varied jobs. These guys are typically "design engineers" and > "application engineers". > > Since the invention of engines and motors, those who operate and or > maintain > these devices have been named engineers. > > So you just have to know what "kind" of engineer you are discussing. > Glenn > >> Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 20:49:16 -0700> From: roughrock@gmail.com> To: > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Engineers here and > there, now and then.> > My brother works on a river boat that goes from > New > Orleans north up> the Mississippi, Ohio, and a few other rivers. It's a > tug > boat.> > His job title is engineer and his job is to keep the big diesel > engine> running, 24 hours a day, unless they are tied up and plugged into > a> > land line. Engineers work on big engines, trains, boats, ships.> > On > 9/25/06, J.R. Hodel wrote:> > Hi:> >> > I saw a remark > about the number of engineers in various countries, and> > how determining > whether a person is what we now call an engineer or not,> > as the > descriptive word engineer may have different meanings at> > different > times > and in different places.> >> > An example: my grandfather W. F. Henrichs > was > an engineer at a mine> > near Beckley WV in the early 1900s . . . he was > the > hoist engineer, as> > opposed to a steam engine engineer. He was also a > machinist in that he> > both operated the hoist and repaired it, usually > by > fabing the> > replacement parts. In WW I he shoed mules. I suspect he > had > a similar> > amount of respect as did the mining engineers who predicted > which way> > the coal ran, but that's hard to tell.> >> > _________________________________________________________________ > Stay connected with the news, people, places and online services that > matter > to you on Live.com > http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx?icid=T001MSN30A0701 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From pjmodreski at att.net Wed Sep 27 20:34:11 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Wed Sep 27 20:34:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] New to the list, and a question Message-ID: <092820060334.8892.451B42B2000EB117000022BC216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Darren, with just a very short try at a reply for you, the most common rocks you'd find in many of the desert or near-desert areas in Arizona would be sandstone, or basalt (volcanic rock). There are, of course, other kinds of rocks to be found in most areas too, ranging from granite and other igneous rocks, to metamorphic rocks (schist and gneiss). But most of the areas with cliffs and ledges, are most likely to be sandstone--in various colors, red to yellow to white. I wanted to include a link to a geologic map of Arizona that might help guide you, but the best one available, on the Arizona Geological Survey website, seems to be "down"; it should be at, http://reynolds.asu.edu/azgeomap/azgeomap_home.htm Here is an alternate map. On it, most of the green and blue colors are sedimentary rocks; the red and magneta, igneous rocks; and the light gray, sediments (sand and gravel) in the desert valleys: http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/StateGeolMaps/ArizGMap.HTM Pete Modreski, Denver CO -------------- Original message from "Grant Johnston" : -------------- > On 9/27/06, Darren D'Agostino wrote: > > Hi > > > > I haven't looked into rocks and minerals since I was a kid so forgive > > any retardation in questions I may post. > > > > I'm currently working on a project and thought maybe you could offer > > some insights or at least some online links. > > > > I wanted to know what kinds of rocks you would find in the deserts of > > Arizona. I am aware that composition may vary since it is a large > > state, but a general idea would be nice. Large rock formations, > > mountains, boulders, rocks at cliff edges etc. I know it's vague but > > like I said my knowledge in this is area is extremely limited at > > best. Any info will be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > > > D > > -- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Thu Sep 28 00:04:51 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Thu Sep 28 00:03:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mold problems In-Reply-To: <003101c6e27e$bea9e600$e7b59fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> References: <003101c6e27e$bea9e600$e7b59fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> Message-ID: <451B7413.4080806@hal-pc.org> Ronald Werner wrote: > Many thanks for these good and useful suggestions. I already adviced my > boss to take the entire door construction out of the mine for drying. > Treatment as you suggested should be possible since those chemicals are > non-problematic in Norway. > > The treatment with the mildew-resistant paint might be more tricky, > because the wood has been treated with tar/creosole. We will have to > find some kind of impregnation suitable for this case. > > After installing the doors back in the mine they will get wet again. > It's a very wet mine, with water dripping everywhere and generally high > humidity. The mold has already spread to other tree-work and I foresee > extensive work to try to keep the situation under control. > > Anyway, with the suggested procedures we can maybe stabilize the > situation. I reckon the treatment must be repeated maybe every single > year. I think they should buy some kind of spray-system and treat the > entire mine before the start of the summer season. > > Keeping the entire mine dry is like trying to empty the ocean... > > Ronald > Norway > > Perhaps you can consider having the whole structure re-creosoted after cleaning? I imagine some of the problem is that the original waterproofing/preservative has disintegrated to the point of being ineffective. And it could probably be done because it is not for domestic use. I don't know how cost-effective it would be though; maybe it would be easier to build a new one. It may not be original anymore but mine timbers were not meant to be perennial, and a good replica is better than a bad (or dangerous) original. Put the original above-ground in a museum. Andrew Turner's treatment sounds like the easiest and best. It ought to get rid of cockroaches too. ;) john From rower at start.no Thu Sep 28 02:40:34 2006 From: rower at start.no (Ronald Werner) Date: Thu Sep 28 03:19:24 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mold problems References: <003101c6e27e$bea9e600$e7b59fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> <451B2418.50CB@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002401c6e2e7$883400b0$61c19fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> Hi Kreigh, The condition of the wood is surprisingly good, actually. The mold seems to be very superficially. But now it's spreading to the wooden floors in the galleries that have been installed for enabling easy access to the mine, wheelchairs included. The suggestions of Andrew will be taken into serious consideration. But sure, we must get help of an expert! Ronald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mold problems > Ronald, > > When archaeologists find ancient wood preserved in a wet environment > they retain the wet environment until an expert can advise them on the > proper way to treat/preserve/dry the find. Old wood that has been wet > for a long time often crumbles when dried, and preservation steps must > be taken while it is still wet. I would suggest you should get expert > advice before you remove the doors. > > Kreigh > > > > > Ronald Werner wrote: >> >> Many thanks for these good and useful suggestions. I already adviced my >> boss >> to take the entire door construction out of the mine for drying. >> Treatment >> as you suggested should be possible since those chemicals are >> non-problematic in Norway. >> >> The treatment with the mildew-resistant paint might be more tricky, >> because >> the wood has been treated with tar/creosole. We will have to find some >> kind >> of impregnation suitable for this case. >> >> After installing the doors back in the mine they will get wet again. It's >> a >> very wet mine, with water dripping everywhere and generally high >> humidity. >> The mold has already spread to other tree-work and I foresee extensive >> work >> to try to keep the situation under control. >> >> Anyway, with the suggested procedures we can maybe stabilize the >> situation. >> I reckon the treatment must be repeated maybe every single year. I think >> they should buy some kind of spray-system and treat the entire mine >> before >> the start of the summer season. >> >> Keeping the entire mine dry is like trying to empty the ocean... >> >> Ronald >> Norway >> >> >I am actually now a certified mold inspector here in California. The >> >truth >> >is, you will probably never get rid of the mold completely, especially >> >since it appears to be in the wood. Virtually all wood has mold in it >> >to >> >various degrees, the trick is to make sure it doesn't grow worse. The >> >best >> >way to treat wood with mold is to scrub it with a solution of one cup >> >Borax >> >per 1 gallon (4 liters) of water. Once this is done, rinse with water >> >and >> >dry thoroughly..mold needs water to grow. If mold is still very bad, it >> >is >> >suggested to add 8 to 10 tablespoons of trisodium phosphate to your >> >Borax/water solution (increase strength if necessary. Three tablespoons >> >of >> >oxalic acid to 1 pint water can also be used if if the other solutions >> >did >> >not work. Rinse everything with clean water and dry..keep drying. >> >Then, >> >the wood should be repainted if possible with good quality >> >mildew-resistant >> >paint (fungicides). This is called encapsulation. I hope this >> >information >> >helps. Don't use bleach..it is effective in certain situations (i.e. >> >mold >> >on windostills and in bathrooms), but probably wouldn't be good here. >> > >> > Andrew Turner >> > Victorville, California >> > >> > >> >>From: "J Bryan Kramer" >> >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> >>collectors" >> >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> >>collectors" >> >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] BLEACH or AMONIA or HYDROGEN PEROXIDE >> >>Problems >> >>withmould >> >>Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:02:10 -0400 >> >> >> >>Have you ever treated wood with 35% Hydrogen Peroxide? My first thought >> >>would be that it would cause irreparable damage. And I also thought >> >>that >> >>this could be hazardous and looking at the H2O2 MSDS sheet I see wood >> >>is >> >>specifically listed as one of the incompatible materials, fire and >> >>explosion >> >>may result from contact. >> >> >> >>Plus these doors are apparently saturated with tar or creosote, mixing >> >>powerful oxidizers with unknown organics is a quick way to disaster. >> >> >> >>If certain chemical applications are not in your area of expertise you >> >>should be very careful about telling people to do something. Something >> >>that >> >>could result in serious injury or worse. >> >> >> >>Bleach would probably also damage the wood, though maybe not as badly. >> >> >> >>That's why I suggested he try contacting some people at the nearest >> >>university, the foresty department probably has a wood products group. >> >>Here >> >>in the US anyway they work with wood preservation among other subjects. >> >> >> >>The museum suggestion was also a good one. I know they use PEG >> >>(Polyethylene >> >>glycol) to saturate wood for preservation, but if this has already been >> >>saturated with creosote then that might not work. >> >> >> >>But finding local experts is what they need to do. >> >> >> >>BK >> >> >> >> >> >>On 9/26/06, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: >> >>> >> >>>The way we treat common mold on wood, or ROCKS here in the US is to >> >>>use >> >>>common household bleach - >> >>> >> >>>Amonia may work as well ?? >> >>> >> >>>NEVER MIX THE 2 !!!!!!! >> >>> >> >>>AMONIA & BLEACH MIXED TOGETHER CREATE A ( DEADLY GAS ) BEWARE - BE >> >>>WARNED !!!!!!!! >> >>> >> >>>USE ONE OR THE OTHER - BUT NEVER BOTH TOGETHER- >> >>> >> >>>High potency, percentage 35 + % hydrogen peroxide, may work as >> >>>well - >> >>>Use alone as well... >> >>> >> >>>HYDROGEN PEROXIDE MAY BE THE BEST WAY - ALTHOUGH PERHAPS THE MOST >> >>>EXPENSIVE ? >> >>> >> >>>You would most likely need to build a custom made tub to place the >> >>>doors >> >>>in and then fill up the tub with the solution you chose, so that >> >>>whatever >> >>>you use, completely covers / submerges the doors ! >> >>> >> >>>And you should dispose of all your used solution and mold legally - >> >>> >> >>>The amount of time the doors would need to be submerged ? Your guess >> >>>is >> >>>as good as mine-- >> >>> >> >>>I would suggest 24 hours no matter which ONE of the 3 liquids you >> >>>use -- >> >>> >> >>>After treatment, scrub the doors with soft plastic brushes to remove >> >>>surface mold, etc - Rinse with clean water - >> >>> >> >>>After doors are cleaned, re-apply another final surface coat of your >> >>>mold >> >>>cleaning liquid - >> >>> >> >>>Then, carefully lay flat with several wooden vices, etc etc to prevent >> >>>warping - >> >>> >> >>>Drying time and methods would best be determined by an experienced >> >>>wood >> >>>professional. >> >>> >> >>>Good luck >> >>> >> >>>RocknLight >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >> >>>From: rower@start.no >> >>>To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> >>>Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 4:08 AM >> >>>Subject: [Rockhounds] Problems with mould >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>Hi, >> >>> >> >>>Currently I am working for the Skuterud cobalt mines in Modum, Norway. >> >>>(Part of >> >>>the Blaafarvev?rket) >> >>> >> >>>The mine is in the process of being completely restored. >> >>> >> >>>In one of the tunnels we have some beautiful wooden doors from around >> >>>1845, but >> >>>these are completely covered by mould, even though have been >> >>>impregnated >> >>>with >> >>>tar (or something similar). It seems as if the tar itself is feeding >> >>>the >> >>>mould! >> >>> >> >>>It is very damp in the mine and there is a lot of draught. >> >>> >> >>>Any suggestions as how to solve this problem once and for all. >> >>> >> >>>Some kind of chemical? >> >>> >> >>>Taking them outside the mine, drying and impregnating them with some >> >>>kind >> >>>of >> >>>acrylic stuff? >> >>> >> >>>Thanks for any suggestions. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>Ronald Werner >> >>>Norway > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rower at start.no Thu Sep 28 02:44:38 2006 From: rower at start.no (Ronald Werner) Date: Thu Sep 28 03:19:27 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mold problems References: <003101c6e27e$bea9e600$e7b59fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> <451B7413.4080806@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <002501c6e2e7$88fc32b0$61c19fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> Hi John, I would definitely prefer your solution, but I'm not the boss... Please, do send us the cockroaches, wish we had them instead of the gnats. End of September in Norway, and we are still infested by these blood-suckers! Very, very unusual... Ronald Norway > Perhaps you can consider having the whole structure re-creosoted after > cleaning? I imagine some of the problem is that the original > waterproofing/preservative has disintegrated to the point of being > ineffective. And it could probably be done because it is not for domestic > use. I don't know how cost-effective it would be though; maybe it would be > easier to build a new one. It may not be original anymore but mine timbers > were not meant to be perennial, and a good replica is better than a bad > (or dangerous) original. Put the original above-ground in a museum. > > Andrew Turner's treatment sounds like the easiest and best. It ought to > get rid of cockroaches too. ;) > > > john > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rower at start.no Thu Sep 28 03:18:00 2006 From: rower at start.no (Ronald Werner) Date: Thu Sep 28 03:19:30 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Skutterud mines References: <200609270100.k8R10lcv003080@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <015d01c6e286$d8d74740$6b01a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <002701c6e2e7$89ffe710$61c19fc3@ronaldk2smewqe> Hallo Rock, Indeed, these mines are the TL for skutterudite, though don't expect to see anything on the market soon. Most of the ore I have seen so far are sub-millimeter corns, which could also be cobaltite, which is probably more common. Every now and then we find some larger pieces of ore, the largest up til now maybe 1-2 cm ?. Cobaltite crystals have been found, but are very rare. Erythrine is present as pink coatings/crusts on the rock, but not a single crystal so far... During the last 30 years extensive restoration work has made certain parts of the mines accessible for the publicum, though you are not allowed to go there alone. The Hoffnung Stollen has been a tourist attraction the past 5-6 years, but in 2007 new sections will be opened. Both the Clara Stollen and Ludwig Eugene Stollen will be officially opened, and these are beautifully restored. Ludwig Eugene is the lowest level. My work has been on free lance basis in order to make a mineralized breccia with quartz and calcite crystals accessible for visitors. Quite an impressive sight. I also make an underground display in one of the galleries. On the surface many of the old buildings have been restored and are used for permanent expositions, explaining about the history, geology and mineralogy. The mines are part of the Blaafarvev?rket, which has many more buildings under its care, I believe something around 100 or so. They have many high profile art expositions too. There is some information on www.blaa.no They plan to revise the entire website and add much more info. As a potential source of cobalt the Skuterud mines seem to be history for good. All information says that the deposit is basically exhausted. Ronald > Ronald, > It sounds like the mine you are working in might be the type locality for > Skutterudite. Can you confirm that? Is the restoration work being done for > tourist purposes or for a resumption of mining? Are the deep levels of the > mine to be opened as well? > Rock > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Alpen at aol.com Thu Sep 28 08:51:48 2006 From: Alpen at aol.com (Alpen@aol.com) Date: Thu Sep 28 08:51:54 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Arizona Geology Message-ID: Grant, I would also be interested in anything you could provide. Thanks, Eric Bindner In a message dated 9/27/2006 7:02:03 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: Message: 19 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 15:56:44 -0700 From: "Grant Johnston" Subject: [Rockhounds] arizona geology To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed If the person who asked about the geoalogy of Arizona will contact me off-list I have some information. Grant roughrock@gmail.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Thu Sep 28 10:09:47 2006 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Sep 28 10:09:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: (AZ rocks) In-Reply-To: <092820060334.8892.451B42B2000EB117000022BC216037602107059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <20060928170947.4453A4D456@io.frii.com> > ...the most common rocks you'd find in many of the desert or > near-desert areas in Arizona would be sandstone, or basalt (volcanic > rock). Of course in the east-central part of AZ the Chinle formation often yields poor to spectacular (gemmy) petrified wood, along with interesting white chalcedony nodules (based on personal experience). But good luck finding public lands that you can reach, or getting permission on private lands. The research I've done has been disappointing. Private landowners are defensive/protective. AZ state trust lands are strictly off limits without a permit, and while you might get one for mining, you can't get one for rockhounding. BLM sections are often landlocked and you can't reach them. Alan Silverstein From Kay_Davis at adp.com Thu Sep 28 05:59:46 2006 From: Kay_Davis at adp.com (Davis, Kay) Date: Thu Sep 28 10:16:21 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] mold problems Message-ID: <4508820C1984D24CA9E36AFFAE5BCB140437D500@EXCHANGEDS01.ds.ad.adp.com> After a good cleaning can I suggest checking with a company that supplies Marine paint or a shipwright. At one time mopped tar was common on workboats and they did develop primer / sealers to apply before a finish coat when people wanted to refinish these boats. Given that they are designed for marine environments and tar, they should adhere and last. Check with a shipwright who has experience with wooden workboats. Kay -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Ronald Werner Sent: September 27, 2006 5:31 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mold problems Many thanks for these good and useful suggestions. I already adviced my boss to take the entire door construction out of the mine for drying. Treatment as you suggested should be possible since those chemicals are non-problematic in Norway. The treatment with the mildew-resistant paint might be more tricky, because the wood has been treated with tar/creosole. We will have to find some kind of impregnation suitable for this case. After installing the doors back in the mine they will get wet again. It's a very wet mine, with water dripping everywhere and generally high humidity. The mold has already spread to other tree-work and I foresee extensive work to try to keep the situation under control. Anyway, with the suggested procedures we can maybe stabilize the situation. I reckon the treatment must be repeated maybe every single year. I think they should buy some kind of spray-system and treat the entire mine before the start of the summer season. Keeping the entire mine dry is like trying to empty the ocean... Ronald Norway >I am actually now a certified mold inspector here in California. The truth >is, you will probably never get rid of the mold completely, especially >since it appears to be in the wood. Virtually all wood has mold in it to >various degrees, the trick is to make sure it doesn't grow worse. The best >way to treat wood with mold is to scrub it with a solution of one cup Borax >per 1 gallon (4 liters) of water. Once this is done, rinse with water and >dry thoroughly..mold needs water to grow. If mold is still very bad, it is >suggested to add 8 to 10 tablespoons of trisodium phosphate to your >Borax/water solution (increase strength if necessary. Three tablespoons of >oxalic acid to 1 pint water can also be used if if the other solutions did >not work. Rinse everything with clean water and dry..keep drying. Then, >the wood should be repainted if possible with good quality mildew-resistant >paint (fungicides). This is called encapsulation. I hope this information >helps. Don't use bleach..it is effective in certain situations (i.e. mold >on windostills and in bathrooms), but probably wouldn't be good here. > > Andrew Turner > Victorville, California > > >>From: "J Bryan Kramer" >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] BLEACH or AMONIA or HYDROGEN PEROXIDE Problems >>withmould >>Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 20:02:10 -0400 >> >>Have you ever treated wood with 35% Hydrogen Peroxide? My first thought >>would be that it would cause irreparable damage. And I also thought that >>this could be hazardous and looking at the H2O2 MSDS sheet I see wood is >>specifically listed as one of the incompatible materials, fire and >>explosion >>may result from contact. >> >>Plus these doors are apparently saturated with tar or creosote, mixing >>powerful oxidizers with unknown organics is a quick way to disaster. >> >>If certain chemical applications are not in your area of expertise you >>should be very careful about telling people to do something. Something >>that >>could result in serious injury or worse. >> >>Bleach would probably also damage the wood, though maybe not as badly. >> >>That's why I suggested he try contacting some people at the nearest >>university, the foresty department probably has a wood products group. >>Here >>in the US anyway they work with wood preservation among other subjects. >> >>The museum suggestion was also a good one. I know they use PEG >>(Polyethylene >>glycol) to saturate wood for preservation, but if this has already been >>saturated with creosote then that might not work. >> >>But finding local experts is what they need to do. >> >>BK >> >> >>On 9/26/06, rocknlight@aol.com wrote: >>> >>>The way we treat common mold on wood, or ROCKS here in the US is to use >>>common household bleach - >>> >>>Amonia may work as well ?? >>> >>>NEVER MIX THE 2 !!!!!!! >>> >>>AMONIA & BLEACH MIXED TOGETHER CREATE A ( DEADLY GAS ) BEWARE - BE >>>WARNED !!!!!!!! >>> >>>USE ONE OR THE OTHER - BUT NEVER BOTH TOGETHER- >>> >>>High potency, percentage 35 + % hydrogen peroxide, may work as well - >>>Use alone as well... >>> >>>HYDROGEN PEROXIDE MAY BE THE BEST WAY - ALTHOUGH PERHAPS THE MOST >>>EXPENSIVE ? >>> >>>You would most likely need to build a custom made tub to place the doors >>>in and then fill up the tub with the solution you chose, so that whatever >>>you use, completely covers / submerges the doors ! >>> >>>And you should dispose of all your used solution and mold legally - >>> >>>The amount of time the doors would need to be submerged ? Your guess is >>>as good as mine-- >>> >>>I would suggest 24 hours no matter which ONE of the 3 liquids you use -- >>> >>>After treatment, scrub the doors with soft plastic brushes to remove >>>surface mold, etc - Rinse with clean water - >>> >>>After doors are cleaned, re-apply another final surface coat of your mold >>>cleaning liquid - >>> >>>Then, carefully lay flat with several wooden vices, etc etc to prevent >>>warping - >>> >>>Drying time and methods would best be determined by an experienced wood >>>professional. >>> >>>Good luck >>> >>>RocknLight >>> >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: rower@start.no >>>To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >>>Sent: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 4:08 AM >>>Subject: [Rockhounds] Problems with mould >>> >>> >>>Hi, >>> >>>Currently I am working for the Skuterud cobalt mines in Modum, Norway. >>>(Part of >>>the Blaafarvev?rket) >>> >>>The mine is in the process of being completely restored. >>> >>>In one of the tunnels we have some beautiful wooden doors from around >>>1845, but >>>these are completely covered by mould, even though have been impregnated >>>with >>>tar (or something similar). It seems as if the tar itself is feeding the >>>mould! >>> >>>It is very damp in the mine and there is a lot of draught. >>> >>>Any suggestions as how to solve this problem once and for all. >>> >>>Some kind of chemical? >>> >>>Taking them outside the mine, drying and impregnating them with some kind >>>of >>>acrylic stuff? >>> >>>Thanks for any suggestions. >>> >>> >>>Ronald Werner >>>Norway >>> >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>>--- >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>List Home Page: >>>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>>________________________________________________________________________ >>>Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and >>>security >>>tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the >>>web, >>>free AOL Mail and more. >>> >>> >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>>--- >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>Subscription Services: >>>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>List Home Page: >>>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >>--- >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. From Cycadwood at aol.com Thu Sep 28 11:23:03 2006 From: Cycadwood at aol.com (Cycadwood@aol.com) Date: Thu Sep 28 11:24:12 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil Wood book ad Message-ID: <361.ca389e0.324d6d07@aol.com> Hi List Members: I wanted to share this new review from CHOICE: Current Reviews for Academic Libraries. I am still selling the book directly to US destinations with free delivery. The price is still $89.95 ("way underpriced"). Add $10 to Canada. Add $15 to anywhere else (well maybe not Antarctica). I will send a box of 4 books @ $89.95 each anywhere in the world with free shipping. Call me at the number below or send a check or Visa/MasterCard information. The book weighs 7 1/2 pounds and has 1600 color photographs, diagrams, and images. Thank you, Frank Science and Technology-Earth Science Daniels, Frank J. Ancient forests: a closer look at fossil wood. by Frank J. Daniels and Richard D. Dayvault; photos by Frank J. Daniels. Western Colorado , 2006. 450p bibl index afp ISBN 0-9662938-1-9, $89.95 . Reviewed in 2006sep CHOICE. Here is a coffee-table quarto-sized work that goes well beyond the insipid into the world of the useful. The book is a photographic survey of most, if not all, of the major petrified wood deposits known to collectors worldwide. Chapter 1 presents visual keys for the identification of polished slabs of petrified wood. A discussion on petrifaction of wood, which is not available in such an accessible form in the primary scientific literature, is a valuable addition to the taphonomy of fossil plants. Browsing through the numerous superb illustrations gives the same feeling as sifting through the dusty drawers of one of the world's great museums. There is a schism in the paleontology world between "amateurs/collectors" and the "academics/professionals." Though this volume appears to fall on the collector's side, there is enough crossover to make its purchase a worthwhile addition to the academician's library. Personally, this reviewer is jealous of the collectors who have the time and resources to produce such a fine work, but it is difficult not to recommend this tome as a tribute to the wonderful world of fossil plants--it is way underpriced. Summing Up: Highly recommended. All levels. -- P. K. Strother, Boston College Frank J. Daniels, Publisher Western Colorado Publishing Company 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 _cycadwood@aol.com_ (mailto:cycadwood@aol.com) or_ publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com_ (mailto:publisher@westerncoloradopublishing.com) 970.242.5255 cell 970.216.9641 Publisher of Petrified Wood: The World of Fossilized Wood, Cones, Ferns, and Cycads and Ancient Forests: A Closer Look at Fossil Wood. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com Thu Sep 28 18:41:44 2006 From: dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com (Powell) Date: Thu Sep 28 18:41:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Enriched Pyrite? Message-ID: <000801c6e368$6b69d640$6401a8c0@Powell> Dear Rockhounds, I have acquired a specimen of cubic crystals that look in form like pyrite but in color more like covellite. The label says, "Copper Enriched Pyrite" from Mexico. Does anyone have an idea what this might be? Pseudomorph of some type? If so, of what? Thank you all for any thoughts you might be able to offer. Best wishes to all. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Sep 28 18:58:05 2006 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Sep 28 18:56:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Enriched Pyrite? In-Reply-To: <000801c6e368$6b69d640$6401a8c0@Powell> References: <000801c6e368$6b69d640$6401a8c0@Powell> Message-ID: <451C7DAD.8040208@verizon.net> When you say "like covellite," do you mean the deep indigo color? Don Powell wrote: > Dear Rockhounds, > I have acquired a specimen of cubic crystals that look in form like pyrite but in color more like covellite. The label says, "Copper Enriched Pyrite" from Mexico. Does anyone have an idea what this might be? Pseudomorph of some type? If so, of what? > > Thank you all for any thoughts you might be able to offer. > > Best wishes to all. > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- From dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com Thu Sep 28 19:03:15 2006 From: dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com (Powell) Date: Thu Sep 28 19:03:08 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Enriched Pyrite? References: <000801c6e368$6b69d640$6401a8c0@Powell> <451C7DAD.8040208@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001101c6e36b$6cd82bf0$6401a8c0@Powell> Hi, Don, On the unbroken faces it is a dull metallic blue. There is a broken crystal that really does look like the typical indigo covellite color. That's about the best I can offer for you. Thanks! Darryl ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Copper Enriched Pyrite? > > When you say "like covellite," do you mean the deep indigo color? > > Don > > > Powell wrote: > >> Dear Rockhounds, >> I have acquired a specimen of cubic crystals that look in form like >> pyrite but in color more like covellite. The label says, "Copper >> Enriched Pyrite" from Mexico. Does anyone have an idea what this might >> be? Pseudomorph of some type? If so, of what? >> >> Thank you all for any thoughts you might be able to offer. >> >> Best wishes to all. >> Darryl Powell >> Manchester, New York >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Thu Sep 28 20:52:07 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Thu Sep 28 20:52:10 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Enriched Pyrite? Message-ID: <092920060352.16441.451C9866000C447900004039215876675507059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Hi Darryl, from me, And do the crystals looks definitely cubic, or sort of cubic, or can you not really tell? Pete -------------- Original message from "Powell" : -------------- > Hi, Don, > On the unbroken faces it is a dull metallic blue. There is a broken crystal > that really does look like the typical indigo covellite color. That's about > the best I can offer for you. > > Thanks! > Darryl > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DonH" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Copper Enriched Pyrite? > > > > > > When you say "like covellite," do you mean the deep indigo color? > > > > Don > > > > > > Powell wrote: > > > >> Dear Rockhounds, > >> I have acquired a specimen of cubic crystals that look in form like > >> pyrite but in color more like covellite. The label says, "Copper > >> Enriched Pyrite" from Mexico. Does anyone have an idea what this might > >> be? Pseudomorph of some type? If so, of what? > >> > >> Thank you all for any thoughts you might be able to offer. > >> > >> Best wishes to all. > >> Darryl Powell > >> Manchester, New York > >> > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> multipart/alternative > >> text/plain (text body -- kept) > >> text/html > >> --- > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jabac at hal-pc.org Fri Sep 29 00:45:57 2006 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Fri Sep 29 00:44:15 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Enriched Pyrite? In-Reply-To: <000801c6e368$6b69d640$6401a8c0@Powell> References: <000801c6e368$6b69d640$6401a8c0@Powell> Message-ID: <451CCF35.4080001@hal-pc.org> Powell wrote: > Dear Rockhounds, > I have acquired a specimen of cubic crystals that look in form like pyrite but in color more like covellite. The label says, "Copper Enriched Pyrite" from Mexico. Does anyone have an idea what this might be? Pseudomorph of some type? If so, of what? > > Thank you all for any thoughts you might be able to offer. > > Best wishes to all. > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York > > Maybe chalcopyrite, which often mixes with pyrite. Or possibly bornite? john From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Fri Sep 29 06:13:38 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Sep 29 06:13:47 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Enriched Pyrite? References: <000801c6e368$6b69d640$6401a8c0@Powell> Message-ID: <001301c6e3c9$168b7e10$617b274b@LarryRush> Darryl; You might look at bornite, or if from Baja, try boleite, which is cubic, and sometimes blue/black in color. Larry Rush ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Powell" To: "Rockhounds List" Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 9:41 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper Enriched Pyrite? Dear Rockhounds, I have acquired a specimen of cubic crystals that look in form like pyrite but in color more like covellite. The label says, "Copper Enriched Pyrite" from Mexico. Does anyone have an idea what this might be? Pseudomorph of some type? If so, of what? Thank you all for any thoughts you might be able to offer. Best wishes to all. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rockcurrier at cs.com Fri Sep 29 19:47:35 2006 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Sep 29 19:45:45 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite References: <200609300104.k8U12F2P004177@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <002b01c6e43a$c98f84e0$6b01a8c0@rock3> Darryl, Often pyrite can be covered with various kinds of sulfide minerals and sometimes they can look something in color like covelite. In all cases that I have seen the color is only skin deep. If you can, find a place on the specimen where it won't hurt to chip away a tiny bit of the pyrite and is should look like normal pyrite on the freshly broken surface. If it does not then I would think you have something other than pyrite. Rock From kadok at infowest.com Fri Sep 29 21:19:16 2006 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Sep 29 21:19:23 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite In-Reply-To: <002b01c6e43a$c98f84e0$6b01a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <000c01c6e447$97ad0f30$0200a8c0@kadok> I've found chalcopyrite with many nice colors, especially blues and pinks. But just surface colors. These lovely colors go away after much exposure to light, especially if you leave it out in the sun. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock Currier Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 7:48 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite Darryl, Often pyrite can be covered with various kinds of sulfide minerals and sometimes they can look something in color like covelite. In all cases that I have seen the color is only skin deep. If you can, find a place on the specimen where it won't hurt to chip away a tiny bit of the pyrite and is should look like normal pyrite on the freshly broken surface. If it does not then I would think you have something other than pyrite. Rock -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS ------------------------------------------------------ Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 15100098) is spam: Spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b Not spam: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b Forget vote: http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b ------------------------------------------------------ END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS From pjmodreski at att.net Sat Sep 30 06:10:02 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sat Sep 30 06:10:06 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite Message-ID: <093020061310.606.451E6CA8000C86E90000025E216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> That's interesting, Margaret, I'd never heard about the colored tarnish on chalcopyrite fading in the sunlight. I'd never thought about whether that could happen. Some of the minerals that your mineral could be Darryl, include, (colors described to the best of my knowledge), Digenite, bluish-black, surface and interior Bornite, purplish-blue surface, bronze-colored fresh interior Covellite, dark purplish blue, and usually lamellar/platy Chalcopyrite, blue-purple-red tarnished surface, golden-yellow interior Pyrite, varied surface tarnish is possible, silvery-yellow interior I'd think that those at the top of this list are the most likely to be your mineral; but there are some other, less common, minerals with similar colors. Pete -------------- Original message from "Margaret Malm" : -------------- > I've found chalcopyrite with many nice colors, especially blues and pinks. > But just surface colors. These lovely colors go away after much exposure to > light, especially if you leave it out in the sun. > > Margaret > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock Currier > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 7:48 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite > > Darryl, > Often pyrite can be covered with various kinds of sulfide minerals and > sometimes they can look something in color like covelite. In all cases that > I have seen the color is only skin deep. If you can, find a place on the > specimen where it won't hurt to chip away a tiny bit of the pyrite and is > should look like normal pyrite on the freshly broken surface. If it does not > then I would think you have something other than pyrite. > Rock > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 15100098) is spam: > Spam: > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b > Not spam: > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b > Forget vote: > http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b > ------------------------------------------------------ > END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 30 06:58:21 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Sep 30 06:58:25 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite References: <093020061310.606.451E6CA8000C86E90000025E216124364607059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <001701c6e498$7daeafc0$c79c2a4b@LarryRush> I have recently heard a tale that some of the brightly colored tarnish on chalcopyrite from the Sweetwater lead district has been "enhanced" by miners running a torch flame over the crystals. Can anyone verify this? And will these colors fade, too over time? Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite > That's interesting, Margaret, I'd never heard about the colored tarnish on > chalcopyrite fading in the sunlight. I'd never thought about whether that > could happen. > > Some of the minerals that your mineral could be Darryl, include, (colors > described to the best of my knowledge), > > Digenite, bluish-black, surface and interior > Bornite, purplish-blue surface, bronze-colored fresh interior > Covellite, dark purplish blue, and usually lamellar/platy > Chalcopyrite, blue-purple-red tarnished surface, golden-yellow interior > Pyrite, varied surface tarnish is possible, silvery-yellow interior > > I'd think that those at the top of this list are the most likely to be > your mineral; but there are some other, less common, minerals with similar > colors. > > Pete > -------------- Original message from "Margaret Malm" > : -------------- > > >> I've found chalcopyrite with many nice colors, especially blues and >> pinks. >> But just surface colors. These lovely colors go away after much exposure >> to >> light, especially if you leave it out in the sun. >> >> Margaret >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock Currier >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 7:48 PM >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite >> >> Darryl, >> Often pyrite can be covered with various kinds of sulfide minerals and >> sometimes they can look something in color like covelite. In all cases >> that >> I have seen the color is only skin deep. If you can, find a place on the >> specimen where it won't hurt to chip away a tiny bit of the pyrite and is >> should look like normal pyrite on the freshly broken surface. If it does >> not >> then I would think you have something other than pyrite. >> Rock >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> -- >> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 15100098) is spam: >> Spam: >> http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b >> Not spam: >> http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b >> Forget vote: >> http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pjmodreski at att.net Sat Sep 30 08:31:44 2006 From: pjmodreski at att.net (pjmodreski@att.net) Date: Sat Sep 30 08:31:50 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite Message-ID: <093020061531.13522.451E8DDE00058BD8000034D2216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> I'm sure it's true. I have always heard that most of the iridescent tarnished "peacock ore" commonly for sale in rock shops, and mostly from Mexico I assume, has been made that way by simply heating it in an oven (or, however is convenient to do). But I have no idea if the colors fade. I guess they'd be easily restored, if they did! Also, the mineralogy books normally say that "peacock ore" is a name for bornite, so people tend to assume that the peacock ore sold in rock shops is bornite. However, almost all that is commonly sold, with the red-blue-purple-greenish iridescent colors, is in fact chalcopyrite, which is a lot more common, and is artificially tarnished as above. Naturally tarnished massive bornite does have similar colors, though a little more subdued, with more of the dark blue and purple and less pink and green. The way one tells them apart is the color of the freshly broken interior; chalcopyrite is brassy-yellow, whereas bornite is bronze-colored (a darker, more brownish). Pete -------------- Original message from "Lawrence Rush" : -------------- > I have recently heard a tale that some of the brightly colored tarnish on > chalcopyrite from the Sweetwater lead district has been "enhanced" by miners > running a torch flame over the crystals. Can anyone verify this? And will > these colors fade, too over time? > > Larry > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:10 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite > > > > That's interesting, Margaret, I'd never heard about the colored tarnish on > > chalcopyrite fading in the sunlight. I'd never thought about whether that > > could happen. > > > > Some of the minerals that your mineral could be Darryl, include, (colors > > described to the best of my knowledge), > > > > Digenite, bluish-black, surface and interior > > Bornite, purplish-blue surface, bronze-colored fresh interior > > Covellite, dark purplish blue, and usually lamellar/platy > > Chalcopyrite, blue-purple-red tarnished surface, golden-yellow interior > > Pyrite, varied surface tarnish is possible, silvery-yellow interior > > > > I'd think that those at the top of this list are the most likely to be > > your mineral; but there are some other, less common, minerals with similar > > colors. > > > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from "Margaret Malm" > > : -------------- > > > > > >> I've found chalcopyrite with many nice colors, especially blues and > >> pinks. > >> But just surface colors. These lovely colors go away after much exposure > >> to > >> light, especially if you leave it out in the sun. > >> > >> Margaret > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock Currier > >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 7:48 PM > >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite > >> > >> Darryl, > >> Often pyrite can be covered with various kinds of sulfide minerals and > >> sometimes they can look something in color like covelite. In all cases > >> that > >> I have seen the color is only skin deep. If you can, find a place on the > >> specimen where it won't hurt to chip away a tiny bit of the pyrite and is > >> should look like normal pyrite on the freshly broken surface. If it does > >> not > >> then I would think you have something other than pyrite. > >> Rock > >> > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > >> > >> -- > >> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > >> ------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 15100098) is spam: > >> Spam: > >> http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b > >> Not spam: > >> http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b > >> Forget vote: > >> http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b > >> ------------------------------------------------------ > >> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Sep 30 08:40:32 2006 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Sep 30 08:40:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite References: <093020061531.13522.451E8DDE00058BD8000034D2216037622307059C0A9D0B0103069F@att.net> Message-ID: <000601c6e4a6$c3fa6970$c79c2a4b@LarryRush> Thanks very much, Pete! Unfortunately, it's always "let the buyer beware!", even with minerals! Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite > I'm sure it's true. I have always heard that most of the iridescent > tarnished "peacock ore" commonly for sale in rock shops, and mostly from > Mexico I assume, has been made that way by simply heating it in an oven > (or, however is convenient to do). > > But I have no idea if the colors fade. I guess they'd be easily restored, > if they did! > > Also, the mineralogy books normally say that "peacock ore" is a name for > bornite, so people tend to assume that the peacock ore sold in rock shops > is bornite. However, almost all that is commonly sold, with the > red-blue-purple-greenish iridescent colors, is in fact chalcopyrite, which > is a lot more common, and is artificially tarnished as above. Naturally > tarnished massive bornite does have similar colors, though a little more > subdued, with more of the dark blue and purple and less pink and green. > > The way one tells them apart is the color of the freshly broken interior; > chalcopyrite is brassy-yellow, whereas bornite is bronze-colored (a > darker, more brownish). > > Pete > > -------------- Original message from "Lawrence Rush" > : -------------- > > >> I have recently heard a tale that some of the brightly colored tarnish on >> chalcopyrite from the Sweetwater lead district has been "enhanced" by >> miners >> running a torch flame over the crystals. Can anyone verify this? And will >> these colors fade, too over time? >> >> Larry >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:10 AM >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite >> >> >> > That's interesting, Margaret, I'd never heard about the colored tarnish >> > on >> > chalcopyrite fading in the sunlight. I'd never thought about whether >> > that >> > could happen. >> > >> > Some of the minerals that your mineral could be Darryl, include, >> > (colors >> > described to the best of my knowledge), >> > >> > Digenite, bluish-black, surface and interior >> > Bornite, purplish-blue surface, bronze-colored fresh interior >> > Covellite, dark purplish blue, and usually lamellar/platy >> > Chalcopyrite, blue-purple-red tarnished surface, golden-yellow interior >> > Pyrite, varied surface tarnish is possible, silvery-yellow interior >> > >> > I'd think that those at the top of this list are the most likely to be >> > your mineral; but there are some other, less common, minerals with >> > similar >> > colors. >> > >> > Pete >> > -------------- Original message from "Margaret Malm" >> > : -------------- >> > >> > >> >> I've found chalcopyrite with many nice colors, especially blues and >> >> pinks. >> >> But just surface colors. These lovely colors go away after much >> >> exposure >> >> to >> >> light, especially if you leave it out in the sun. >> >> >> >> Margaret >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rock >> >> Currier >> >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 7:48 PM >> >> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >> >> Subject: [Rockhounds] Covelite looking pyrite >> >> >> >> Darryl, >> >> Often pyrite can be covered with various kinds of sulfide minerals and >> >> sometimes they can look something in color like covelite. In all cases >> >> that >> >> I have seen the color is only skin deep. If you can, find a place on >> >> the >> >> specimen where it won't hurt to chip away a tiny bit of the pyrite and >> >> is >> >> should look like normal pyrite on the freshly broken surface. If it >> >> does >> >> not >> >> then I would think you have something other than pyrite. >> >> Rock >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> >> Subscription Services: >> >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> List Home Page: >> >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> Teach Infowest Spam Trap if this mail (ID 15100098) is spam: >> >> Spam: >> >> http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b >> >> Not spam: >> >> http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b >> >> Forget vote: >> >> http://spamtrap.infowest.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=15100098&m=ce2d0796138b >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> >> Subscription Services: >> >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> List Home Page: >> >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > multipart/alternative >> > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > text/html >> > --- >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > Subscription Services: >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > List Home Page: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com Sat Sep 30 14:34:16 2006 From: dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com (Powell) Date: Sat Sep 30 14:34:11 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Covellite-looking pyrite: Thank You Message-ID: <002301c6e4d8$2ec662a0$6501a8c0@Powell> Dear List, Thank you, everyone, for your various insights. I'm still not sure what I have ("copper enriched pyrite"), but now I have a better idea of which options to consider. I appreciate all your help. Best wishes to everyone. Darryl Powell --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From johnjold at comcast.net Sat Sep 30 19:20:13 2006 From: johnjold at comcast.net (John Joldersma) Date: Sat Sep 30 19:20:29 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mars geology-Rover video Message-ID: <8d519d45e5d4b6a7e19f0a7175ca31a3@comcast.net> article with link to video of new crater pictures. If you saw the IMax Mars movie don't miss this. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060928.wmars0928/ BNStory/Science/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp From ROCKCURRIER at cs.com Sat Sep 30 22:46:56 2006 From: ROCKCURRIER at cs.com (ROCKCURRIER@cs.com) Date: Sat Sep 30 22:47:03 2006 Subject: [Rockhounds] Copper enriched pyrite Message-ID: <59AF8176.78998D28.3AEB17FB@cs.com> Darryl, Chalcopyrite and Pyrite are easy to distinguish apart if not by their color then by their hardness. Fresh chalcopyrite is a bit more brassy or golden colored than pyrite. Because of the ease with which it oxidizes crystals of it can be anything from golden to black. It is much softer and the point of a knife blade will easily scratch chalcopyrite but not pyrite which is about 5.5. You can sometimes clean sulfides off of pyrite using glass beads in an air abrasive tool, but not chalcopyrite unless you want to remove the chalcopyrite completely. Often the sperrylite crystals from Norilsk, Russia are found in massive chalcopyrite and dealers will often use glass beads to eat away the chalcopyrite and make the sperrylite perch attractively on matrix. Have you tried a scratch test on the "pyrite"? Most if not all of the massive little pieces of "peacock" ore that is sold in rock shops is chalcopyrite that has been given an acid treatment with various mixtures of acids, usually phosphoric and sulfuric acid. The various mixtures are proprietary to the dealers doing the treatment, but I have heard them complain that there is a certain amount of luck and magic involved in the process. Some days they can treat bucket after bucket of small chunks of chalcopyrite rich ore with good results and other days they can't get the solution to perform well at all. It probably has something to do with the temperature of the acid mixture or long the stuff is left in the acid, or how quickly and at what temperature the dipped material is left to sit in the sun or how they hold their mouth. It is a bit of a magic art, but each years tons of chalcopyrite rich ore is treated this way for rock shops. Much of it is from Mexico. Rock