From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sun Apr 1 06:55:47 2007 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sun Apr 1 06:55:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] How to Make Diamonds at Home References: <200703180200.l2I20A55021732@bubbleator.drizzle.com><6.2.3.4.2.20070318080358.028e0730@pop.earthlink.net><003401c76971$2216f7e0$1ff9d24c@LarryRush><001e01c76a30$279a5a30$2528d64c@LarryRush> <200703191635.l2JGZBbb017559@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <002701c77465$732dd190$9a802b4b@LarryRush> I don't know who wrote this, so I don't know where to give credits, but I thought it was a "timely" article! Larry Rush Making Diamonds at Home A fascinating event happened while I was attending the Tucson Show last year. I was in the room of Brazilian mineral dealer Joaquin Stick, and noticed a number of very nice, rather large diamond crystals for sale. When I inquired about them, I was introduced to an elderly gentleman sitting in the corner. This fascinating man was Professor Ilmeno Rutille, originally a professor of chemistry at the University of Bologna in Italy, but who had spent most of his professional career working for General Electric in their Diamond Synthesis Lab. Professor Rutille had synthesized all the diamond specimens I had seen in a laboratory in his home! I spent a very pleasant hour talking to this amazing man, and when I returned home, I began an e-mail correspondence with him. I'm afraid I pestered him for several months with questions about how these diamond crystals were grown, and finally he relented, saying he would show me the process if I would travel to his home laboratory in the mountains near Oakley, Kansas. It was late May when I arrived at Professor Rutille's home, and after introducing me to his wife, he took me to his laboratory located behind his garage. I was immediately struck by the lack of large, sophisticated equipment one would expect to find in a lab capable of synthesizing diamonds. I asked Prof. Rutille where he made his diamonds, as there was not a single piece of technical equipment in the place. "That is exactly why I asked you here," he replied, "Please sit down," and he pointed to two chairs against the wall. We sat down, and he handed me some papers. "It's all explained here," he said. While I looked at the papers, Prof. Rutille told a fascinating story. The early attempts to synthesize diamonds at the GE labs were a trial and error effort that did not succeed until it was discovered that with existing equipment, a catalyst was necessary to lower the temperature and pressure at which diamonds form. An amino acid present in animal muscle and fat tissue turned out to be the key. This was discovered when a technician was preparing samples to go into the furnace while eating a ham sandwich. A bit of ham contaminated the sample, but the technician went ahead with the test. The result was a diamond(small and very poor quality)but a diamond. This amino acid catalyst has been kept a secret ever since. The story continues in the 1980s when Prof. Rutille began work on a project in the GE Synthetic Stones Lab to synthesize elbaite tourmaline. The scientists added various metals to the chemical structure to change the color of the crystals. The results were disappointing, except in the case of copper. Adding copper produced a cuprian elbaite of a beautiful, but rather unbelievable, teal blue color. Further research was discontinued because his superiors felt that gems cut from this material looked fake. Prof. Rutille kept about half of the few hundred crystals produced, sending the rest to a mineral dealer friend in Paraiba, Brazil. Prof. Rutille wondered if copper might also produce a blue color in diamonds, and began a series of tests. The attempt to produce blue diamonds failed, but he found that the copper even more drastically reduced the temperature and pressure necessary to produce a diamond. In fact, a pressure of 650 pounds per square inch and a temperature of 112 degrees Fahrenheit were all that was necessary. This could be produced in a home laboratory! Prof. Rutille began to produce his own diamonds in his home lab, and those were the crystals I saw in Tucson. Prof. Rutille assured me that he would have grown rich selling diamond and never would have told me the details of how these diamonds were made if he had not been threatened by agents from GE and the De Beers Corporation a few weeks before my visit. He was so angry with his former employer that he asked me to publish his findings so that people everywhere could reproduce his results. I agreed, and below are instructions for synthesizing diamonds in your home or garage! Preparing the Sample copper pipe (the pipe and end caps are available at any home improvement center). Into the open end of the pipe, place 1.75 grams of the lunchmeat. This will provide the amino acid catalyst. Using a hammer or other tool, crumble the charcoal briquette into pieces small enough to fit into the copper pipe. Add exactly 4.2 grams of charcoal briquette, packing lightly with your finger (Photo 2). Note: DO NOT use briquettes with lighter fluid in them as this will contaminate the sample and cause a risk of fire or explosion! Add another 1.75 grams of lunchmeat on top of the packed charcoal briquette. Place the other end cap on the open end of the copper pipe, creating an enclosed container. Cut two round pieces of masking tape to fit the ends of the end caps, and place one piece of tape on each end cap (this will insulate the copper container from the jaws of the vice) (Photo 3). Creating the Diamond Note: Gloves and safety glasses should be worn during this step of the procedure! Place the copper container in the jaws of a large, heavy duty vice, one end cap against each jaw of the vice, and tighten enough to hold the container in place (Photo 4). Lay an accurate ruler across the top of the vice. It is necessary to close the vice one eighth of an inch to produce the necessary pressure. First, the container must be heated. Using the blow dryer on "high" setting, heat the container for a minimum of two minutes. Now, while continuing to heat the container, begin to close the vice, slowly. Some effort will be required, but continue closing the vice until you have collapsed the container one eighth of an inch. Continue to heat the container with the blow dryer for a minimum of four more minutes. Don't be surprised if you feel yourself getting hungry;it does smell like barbeque! After four minutes, the blow dryer may be turned off. Allow the container to cool for 30 minutes. Using a hacksaw,cut the container in half and remove your diamond! I know this leaves one question: What type of lunch-meat to use? I have experimented with several types, and I achieved my best results using pure baloney. Original Editor's note: If you are excited by the potential that the above article details, I recommend that you reevaluate the article. It is April 1, after all. From spocksrocks at hotmail.com Sun Apr 1 07:37:08 2007 From: spocksrocks at hotmail.com (Scott Blair) Date: Sun Apr 1 07:37:11 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for a Chondrite Message-ID: Hi rockhounds: Geology professor Monty Elliot, of Southern Oregon University in Ashland Oregon, has asked me to get him a chondrite for a class he will be teaching. He's absolutely a great guy, and has done a lot to build bridges between the university ivy league, and the local rockhound community. He's a true educator, in the sense that he doesn't care if you're in his class or not - you're going to learn something from him just by rubbing shoulders. I'd like to help him out, but I'm not a meteorite man. Does anyone have a reasonably priced chondrite, suitable for a classroom example? Anyone know a good source? Thanks for any help or steering you can give me on this one. Warm Regards - Scott Blair --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Sun Apr 1 07:42:02 2007 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Apr 1 07:45:40 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Saw Tip In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070330164219.06afaab0@frii.com> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20070330164219.06afaab0@frii.com> Message-ID: <200704011445.l31Ejbi3005585@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I'm sorry you have the original Highland Park slab saw design that requires the removal of just about everything to install a belt. I have the 14" model. Just an observation from using my saw for about 6 months now: I have found that slippage is not only a good thing but appears to have been integral to the design of the saw (the original belts supplied with these machines were round leather belts). If the blade ever starts to bind, or the vise hits the blade washer (a design flaw in these saws, IMO), the belt will slip, and the jaws will be saved from being forced open on the screw. If the belt is too tight and does not slip, the motor tends to overheat, or the jaws refuse to unclamp, potentially resulting in damage to the blade. This makes up for another flaw in the design, the spring-loaded vise jaws, which fell out of favor 25 years ago, since they do not tend to function as designed (if the spring has enough tension to feed the vise, it won't allow the jaws to open very easily if the blade binds. If it doesn't, the vise won't feed into the blade). I use open ended hollow core round belting, which is essentially thick-walled, round polyethylene tubing with a double barb that you cut to length and barb together around the pulleys. Being round and smooth, it slips easily if the blade begins to bind or the vise hits the blade washer. As far as I can tell this doesn't damage the belt appreciably. Of course, I don't start a cut and walk away from the shop (ever lol), so I don't know what would happen if the belt slipped for more than a minute or two. One clue that this is the design that Highland Park intended is that the original pulleys, on my saw at least, are round belt pulleys, not v-belt pulleys. You can get adjustable length round belting, but IMO it is not necessary, since the idler pulley can easily be repositioned to take up slack in the belt after it stretches. Not to mention that the per-foot cost of link belts of any cross section is exorbitant (it is the most expensive belting there is, AFAIK). Also, polyethylene does not develop a "memory" like reinforced rubber belting does (this is a very minor issue anyway, and only applies to old belts. If the rubber is good, the belt won't kink if it isn't used for a few months. If the rubber is cracking, and the belt develops a kink, it should be replaced anyway). At 05:42 PM 3/30/2007, you wrote: >Here is an article I wrote for our rock club newsletter. It may be >used in your club's newsletter if you send me a copy. > > >It's always fun to work on the rock saw. It's frustrating when you >have to dismantle the saw in order to replace a part. I needed to >replace the inside belt on an older Highland Park saw. For this >saw, one has to dismantle the pillow blocks and drive shaft >assembly. Looking for an easier solution, I found Power Twist >adjustable V-belt. This belt uses interlocking links. I was able >to install a new belt in a couple minutes with out any tools. > >The manufacturer claims the adjustable links do not develop a memory >that a standard belt will get and the links dampen vibration giving >a cleaner cut for wood working saws. I think this will also be >true for rock saws. The manufacturer also rates the belt as a high >resistance to water, oil, solvents, and other chemicals. > >It's working great so far. There was minor stretching that needed >to be readjusted. No affiliation, now a satisfied user. > >The belt installed on a Highland Park 20" saw: >http://users.frii.com/jerrybs/saw.jpg > >Belt profile: >http://users.frii.com/jerrybs/profile.jpg > >Jerry Sorensen >Kennewick, WA > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From llbullbull at hotmail.com Sun Apr 1 07:55:36 2007 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Sun Apr 1 07:55:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] How to Make Diamonds at Home In-Reply-To: <002701c77465$732dd190$9a802b4b@LarryRush> Message-ID: Nice article....but I new better when I saw your name associated with the article. Take care, Larry >From: "Lawrence Rush" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: [Rockhounds] How to Make Diamonds at Home >Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 09:55:47 -0400 > >I don't know who wrote this, so I don't know where to give credits, but I >thought it was a "timely" article! > > > >Larry Rush > > > > > > > >Making Diamonds at Home > >A fascinating event happened while I was attending the Tucson Show last >year. I was in the room of Brazilian mineral dealer Joaquin Stick, and >noticed a number of very nice, rather large diamond crystals for sale. When >I inquired about them, I was introduced to an elderly gentleman sitting in >the corner. This fascinating man was Professor Ilmeno Rutille, originally a >professor of chemistry at the University of Bologna in Italy, but who had >spent most of his professional career working for >General Electric in their Diamond Synthesis Lab. >Professor Rutille had synthesized all the diamond >specimens I had seen in a laboratory in his home! > >I spent a very pleasant hour talking to this amazing man, and when I >returned home, I began an e-mail >correspondence with him. I'm afraid I pestered him for several months with >questions about how these diamond crystals were grown, and finally he >relented, saying he would show me the process if I would travel to his home >laboratory in the mountains near Oakley, Kansas. > >It was late May when I arrived at Professor Rutille's >home, and after introducing me to his wife, he took me to his laboratory >located behind his garage. I was >immediately struck by the lack of large, sophisticated equipment one would >expect to find in a lab capable of synthesizing diamonds. > >I asked Prof. Rutille where he made his diamonds, as >there was not a single piece of technical equipment in the place. "That is >exactly why I asked you here," he replied, "Please sit down," and he >pointed to two chairs against the wall. We sat down, and he handed me some >papers. "It's all explained here," he said. While I looked at the papers, >Prof. Rutille told a fascinating story. > >The early attempts to synthesize diamonds at the GE >labs were a trial and error effort that did not succeed until it was >discovered that with existing equipment, a catalyst was necessary to lower >the temperature and pressure at which diamonds form. An amino acid present >in animal muscle and fat tissue turned out to be the key. This was >discovered when a technician was preparing samples to go into the furnace >while eating a ham sandwich. A bit of >ham contaminated the sample, but the technician went ahead with the test. >The result was a diamond(small and very poor quality)but a diamond. This >amino acid catalyst has been kept a secret ever since. > >The story continues in the 1980s when Prof. Rutille >began work on a project in the GE Synthetic Stones Lab to synthesize >elbaite tourmaline. The scientists added various metals to the chemical >structure to change the color of the crystals. The results were >disappointing, except in the case of copper. Adding copper produced a >cuprian elbaite of a beautiful, but rather unbelievable, teal blue color. >Further research was discontinued because his superiors felt that gems cut >from this material looked fake. Prof. Rutille kept about half of the few >hundred crystals produced, sending the rest to a mineral dealer friend in >Paraiba, Brazil. > >Prof. Rutille wondered if copper might also produce a blue color in >diamonds, and began a series of tests. The attempt to produce blue diamonds >failed, but he found that the copper even more drastically reduced the >temperature and pressure necessary to produce a diamond. In fact, a >pressure of 650 pounds per square inch and a temperature of 112 degrees >Fahrenheit were all that was necessary. This could be produced in a home >laboratory! Prof. Rutille began to produce his own diamonds in his home >lab, and those were the crystals I saw in Tucson. > >Prof. Rutille assured me that he would have grown rich selling diamond and >never would have told me the details of how these diamonds were made if he >had not been threatened by agents from GE and the De Beers Corporation a >few weeks before my visit. He was so angry with his former employer that he >asked me to publish his findings so that people everywhere could reproduce >his results. I agreed, and below are >instructions for synthesizing diamonds in your home or garage! > >Preparing the Sample > >copper pipe (the pipe and end caps are available at any home improvement >center). Into the open end of the pipe, place 1.75 grams of the lunchmeat. >This will provide the amino acid catalyst. Using a hammer or other tool, >crumble the charcoal briquette into pieces small enough to fit into the >copper pipe. Add exactly 4.2 grams of charcoal briquette, packing lightly >with your finger (Photo 2). Note: DO NOT use briquettes with lighter fluid >in them as this will contaminate the sample and cause a risk of fire or >explosion! Add another 1.75 grams of >lunchmeat on top of the packed charcoal briquette. Place the other end cap >on the open end of the copper pipe, creating an enclosed container. Cut two >round pieces of masking tape to fit the ends of the end caps, and place one >piece of tape on each end cap (this will insulate the copper container from >the jaws of the vice) (Photo 3). > >Creating the Diamond > > >Note: Gloves and safety glasses should be worn during this step of the >procedure! Place the copper container in the jaws of a large, heavy duty >vice, one end cap against each jaw of the vice, and tighten enough to hold >the container in place (Photo 4). Lay an accurate ruler across the top of >the vice. It is necessary to close the vice one eighth of an inch to >produce the necessary pressure. First, the container must be heated. Using >the blow dryer on "high" setting, heat the container for a minimum of two >minutes. Now, while continuing to heat the container, begin to close the >vice, slowly. Some effort will be required, but continue closing the vice >until you have collapsed the container one eighth of an inch. Continue to >heat the container with the blow dryer for a minimum of four more minutes. >Don't be surprised if you feel yourself getting hungry;it does smell like >barbeque! After four minutes, the blow dryer may be turned off. Allow the >container to cool for 30 minutes. Using a hacksaw,cut the container in half >and remove your diamond! > >I know this leaves one question: What type of lunch-meat to use? I have >experimented with several types, and I achieved my best results using pure >baloney. > >Original Editor's note: If you are excited by the >potential that the above article details, I recommend that you reevaluate >the article. It is April 1, after all. > > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Apr 1 09:34:07 2007 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Apr 1 09:36:17 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] How to Make Diamonds at Home References: <200703180200.l2I20A55021732@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070318080358.028e0730@pop.earthlink.net> <003401c76971$2216f7e0$1ff9d24c@LarryRush> <001e01c76a30$279a5a30$2528d64c@LarryRush> <200703191635.l2JGZBbb017559@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <002701c77465$732dd190$9a802b4b@LarryRush> Message-ID: <000f01c7747b$91efcdc0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Very timely. April 1 timely to be exact. Oops, I hope I didn't ruin anything! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rush" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 9:55 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] How to Make Diamonds at Home >I don't know who wrote this, so I don't know where to give credits, but I >thought it was a "timely" article! > > > > Larry Rush > > > > > > > > Making Diamonds at Home > > A fascinating event happened while I was attending the Tucson Show last > year. I was in the room of Brazilian mineral dealer Joaquin Stick, and > noticed a number of very nice, rather large diamond crystals for sale. > When I inquired about them, I was introduced to an elderly gentleman > sitting in the corner. This fascinating man was Professor Ilmeno Rutille, > originally a professor of chemistry at the University of Bologna in Italy, > but who had spent most of his professional career working for > General Electric in their Diamond Synthesis Lab. > Professor Rutille had synthesized all the diamond > specimens I had seen in a laboratory in his home! > > I spent a very pleasant hour talking to this amazing man, and when I > returned home, I began an e-mail > correspondence with him. I'm afraid I pestered him for several months with > questions about how these diamond crystals were grown, and finally he > relented, saying he would show me the process if I would travel to his > home laboratory in the mountains near Oakley, Kansas. > > It was late May when I arrived at Professor Rutille's > home, and after introducing me to his wife, he took me to his laboratory > located behind his garage. I was > immediately struck by the lack of large, sophisticated equipment one would > expect to find in a lab capable of synthesizing diamonds. > > I asked Prof. Rutille where he made his diamonds, as > there was not a single piece of technical equipment in the place. "That is > exactly why I asked you here," he replied, "Please sit down," and he > pointed to two chairs against the wall. We sat down, and he handed me some > papers. "It's all explained here," he said. While I looked at the papers, > Prof. Rutille told a fascinating story. > > The early attempts to synthesize diamonds at the GE > labs were a trial and error effort that did not succeed until it was > discovered that with existing equipment, a catalyst was necessary to lower > the temperature and pressure at which diamonds form. An amino acid present > in animal muscle and fat tissue turned out to be the key. This was > discovered when a technician was preparing samples to go into the furnace > while eating a ham sandwich. A bit of > ham contaminated the sample, but the technician went ahead with the test. > The result was a diamond(small and very poor quality)but a diamond. This > amino acid catalyst has been kept a secret ever since. > > The story continues in the 1980s when Prof. Rutille > began work on a project in the GE Synthetic Stones Lab to synthesize > elbaite tourmaline. The scientists added various metals to the chemical > structure to change the color of the crystals. The results were > disappointing, except in the case of copper. Adding copper produced a > cuprian elbaite of a beautiful, but rather unbelievable, teal blue color. > Further research was discontinued because his superiors felt that gems cut > from this material looked fake. Prof. Rutille kept about half of the few > hundred crystals produced, sending the rest to a mineral dealer friend in > Paraiba, Brazil. > > Prof. Rutille wondered if copper might also produce a blue color in > diamonds, and began a series of tests. The attempt to produce blue > diamonds failed, but he found that the copper even more drastically > reduced the temperature and pressure necessary to produce a diamond. In > fact, a pressure of 650 pounds per square inch and a temperature of 112 > degrees Fahrenheit were all that was necessary. This could be produced in > a home laboratory! Prof. Rutille began to produce his own diamonds in his > home lab, and those were the crystals I saw in Tucson. > > Prof. Rutille assured me that he would have grown rich selling diamond and > never would have told me the details of how these diamonds were made if he > had not been threatened by agents from GE and the De Beers Corporation a > few weeks before my visit. He was so angry with his former employer that > he asked me to publish his findings so that people everywhere could > reproduce his results. I agreed, and below are > instructions for synthesizing diamonds in your home or garage! > > Preparing the Sample > > copper pipe (the pipe and end caps are available at any home improvement > center). Into the open end of the pipe, place 1.75 grams of the lunchmeat. > This will provide the amino acid catalyst. Using a hammer or other tool, > crumble the charcoal briquette into pieces small enough to fit into the > copper pipe. Add exactly 4.2 grams of charcoal briquette, packing lightly > with your finger (Photo 2). Note: DO NOT use briquettes with lighter fluid > in them as this will contaminate the sample and cause a risk of fire or > explosion! Add another 1.75 grams of > lunchmeat on top of the packed charcoal briquette. Place the other end cap > on the open end of the copper pipe, creating an enclosed container. Cut > two round pieces of masking tape to fit the ends of the end caps, and > place one piece of tape on each end cap (this will insulate the copper > container from the jaws of the vice) (Photo 3). > > Creating the Diamond > > > Note: Gloves and safety glasses should be worn during this step of the > procedure! Place the copper container in the jaws of a large, heavy duty > vice, one end cap against each jaw of the vice, and tighten enough to hold > the container in place (Photo 4). Lay an accurate ruler across the top of > the vice. It is necessary to close the vice one eighth of an inch to > produce the necessary pressure. First, the container must be heated. Using > the blow dryer on "high" setting, heat the container for a minimum of two > minutes. Now, while continuing to heat the container, begin to close the > vice, slowly. Some effort will be required, but continue closing the vice > until you have collapsed the container one eighth of an inch. Continue to > heat the container with the blow dryer for a minimum of four more minutes. > Don't be surprised if you feel yourself getting hungry;it does smell like > barbeque! After four minutes, the blow dryer may be turned off. Allow the > container to cool for 30 minutes. Using a hacksaw,cut the container in > half and remove your diamond! > > I know this leaves one question: What type of lunch-meat to use? I have > experimented with several types, and I achieved my best results using pure > baloney. > > Original Editor's note: If you are excited by the > potential that the above article details, I recommend that you reevaluate > the article. It is April 1, after all. > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From folmstead at rcn.com Sun Apr 1 12:07:41 2007 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Sun Apr 1 12:08:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Proper credit.....How to Make Diamonds at Home In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <461002FD.6030203@rcn.com> hello I do not know WHICH newsletter this was taken from but I do know the AUTHOR and the newsletter in which mineral club newsletter I published it, FROM the author. Yes, it was for April 1.... Credit should be given to the author and the newsletter..... GeorgiaO __..--..__..--..__..--..__ Lawrence Bull wrote: > Nice article....but I new better when I saw your name associated with > the article. > > Take care, > > Larry > > >> From: "Lawrence Rush" >> Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> Subject: [Rockhounds] How to Make Diamonds at Home >> Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 09:55:47 -0400 >> >> I don't know who wrote this, so I don't know where to give credits, >> but I thought it was a "timely" article! >> >> >> >> Larry Rush >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Making Diamonds at Home >> >> A fascinating event happened while I was attending the Tucson Show >> last year. I was in the room of Brazilian mineral dealer Joaquin >> Stick, and noticed a number of very nice, rather large diamond >> crystals for sale. When I inquired about them, I was introduced to an >> elderly gentleman sitting in the corner. This fascinating man was >> Professor Ilmeno Rutille, originally a professor of chemistry at the >> University of Bologna in Italy, but who had spent most of his >> professional career working for >> General Electric in their Diamond Synthesis Lab. >> Professor Rutille had synthesized all the diamond >> specimens I had seen in a laboratory in his home! >> >> I spent a very pleasant hour talking to this amazing man, and when I >> returned home, I began an e-mail >> correspondence with him. I'm afraid I pestered him for several months >> with questions about how these diamond crystals were grown, and >> finally he relented, saying he would show me the process if I would >> travel to his home laboratory in the mountains near Oakley, Kansas. >> >> It was late May when I arrived at Professor Rutille's >> home, and after introducing me to his wife, he took me to his >> laboratory located behind his garage. I was >> immediately struck by the lack of large, sophisticated equipment one >> would expect to find in a lab capable of synthesizing diamonds. >> >> I asked Prof. Rutille where he made his diamonds, as >> there was not a single piece of technical equipment in the place. >> "That is exactly why I asked you here," he replied, "Please sit >> down," and he pointed to two chairs against the wall. We sat down, >> and he handed me some papers. "It's all explained here," he said. >> While I looked at the papers, Prof. Rutille told a fascinating story. >> >> The early attempts to synthesize diamonds at the GE >> labs were a trial and error effort that did not succeed until it was >> discovered that with existing equipment, a catalyst was necessary to >> lower the temperature and pressure at which diamonds form. An amino >> acid present in animal muscle and fat tissue turned out to be the >> key. This was discovered when a technician was preparing samples to >> go into the furnace while eating a ham sandwich. A bit of >> ham contaminated the sample, but the technician went ahead with the >> test. The result was a diamond(small and very poor quality)but a >> diamond. This amino acid catalyst has been kept a secret ever since. >> >> The story continues in the 1980s when Prof. Rutille >> began work on a project in the GE Synthetic Stones Lab to synthesize >> elbaite tourmaline. The scientists added various metals to the >> chemical structure to change the color of the crystals. The results >> were disappointing, except in the case of copper. Adding copper >> produced a cuprian elbaite of a beautiful, but rather unbelievable, >> teal blue color. Further research was discontinued because his >> superiors felt that gems cut from this material looked fake. Prof. >> Rutille kept about half of the few hundred crystals produced, sending >> the rest to a mineral dealer friend in Paraiba, Brazil. >> >> Prof. Rutille wondered if copper might also produce a blue color in >> diamonds, and began a series of tests. The attempt to produce blue >> diamonds failed, but he found that the copper even more drastically >> reduced the temperature and pressure necessary to produce a diamond. >> In fact, a pressure of 650 pounds per square inch and a temperature >> of 112 degrees Fahrenheit were all that was necessary. This could be >> produced in a home laboratory! Prof. Rutille began to produce his own >> diamonds in his home lab, and those were the crystals I saw in Tucson. >> >> Prof. Rutille assured me that he would have grown rich selling >> diamond and never would have told me the details of how these >> diamonds were made if he had not been threatened by agents from GE >> and the De Beers Corporation a few weeks before my visit. He was so >> angry with his former employer that he asked me to publish his >> findings so that people everywhere could reproduce his results. I >> agreed, and below are >> instructions for synthesizing diamonds in your home or garage! >> >> Preparing the Sample >> >> copper pipe (the pipe and end caps are available at any home >> improvement center). Into the open end of the pipe, place 1.75 grams >> of the lunchmeat. This will provide the amino acid catalyst. Using a >> hammer or other tool, crumble the charcoal briquette into pieces >> small enough to fit into the copper pipe. Add exactly 4.2 grams of >> charcoal briquette, packing lightly with your finger (Photo 2). Note: >> DO NOT use briquettes with lighter fluid in them as this will >> contaminate the sample and cause a risk of fire or explosion! Add >> another 1.75 grams of >> lunchmeat on top of the packed charcoal briquette. Place the other >> end cap on the open end of the copper pipe, creating an enclosed >> container. Cut two round pieces of masking tape to fit the ends of >> the end caps, and place one piece of tape on each end cap (this will >> insulate the copper container from the jaws of the vice) (Photo 3). >> >> Creating the Diamond >> >> >> Note: Gloves and safety glasses should be worn during this step of >> the procedure! Place the copper container in the jaws of a large, >> heavy duty vice, one end cap against each jaw of the vice, and >> tighten enough to hold the container in place (Photo 4). Lay an >> accurate ruler across the top of the vice. It is necessary to close >> the vice one eighth of an inch to produce the necessary pressure. >> First, the container must be heated. Using the blow dryer on "high" >> setting, heat the container for a minimum of two minutes. Now, while >> continuing to heat the container, begin to close the vice, slowly. >> Some effort will be required, but continue closing the vice until you >> have collapsed the container one eighth of an inch. Continue to heat >> the container with the blow dryer for a minimum of four more minutes. >> Don't be surprised if you feel yourself getting hungry;it does smell >> like barbeque! After four minutes, the blow dryer may be turned off. >> Allow the container to cool for 30 minutes. Using a hacksaw,cut the >> container in half and remove your diamond! >> >> I know this leaves one question: What type of lunch-meat to use? I >> have experimented with several types, and I achieved my best results >> using pure baloney. >> >> Original Editor's note: If you are excited by the >> potential that the above article details, I recommend that you >> reevaluate the article. It is April 1, after all. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft > Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ > From minnesota_pebble_pup at yahoo.com Sun Apr 1 12:08:25 2007 From: minnesota_pebble_pup at yahoo.com (minnesota_pebble_pup) Date: Sun Apr 1 12:08:29 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] How to Make Diamonds at Home In-Reply-To: <002701c77465$732dd190$9a802b4b@LarryRush> Message-ID: <458755.41002.qm@web32609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Lawrence Rush wrote: > Making Diamonds at Home Now if this doesn't bring about a deep rockhound's chuckle, nothing will! Good one. Jonna ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html From jerrybs at frii.com Sun Apr 1 16:34:47 2007 From: jerrybs at frii.com (jerry) Date: Sun Apr 1 16:46:23 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Proper credit.....How to Make Diamonds at Home In-Reply-To: <461002FD.6030203@rcn.com> References: <461002FD.6030203@rcn.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20070401163402.0670c2b0@frii.com> who is the author and original newsletter? Jerry At 12:07 PM 4/1/07, you wrote: >hello >I do not know WHICH newsletter this was taken from >but I do know the AUTHOR and the newsletter in which >mineral club newsletter I published it, FROM the author. > Yes, it was for April 1.... > >Credit should be given to the author and the newsletter..... > >GeorgiaO -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date: 4/1/07 8:49 PM From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 16:52:51 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Apr 1 16:52:55 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Proper credit.....How to Make Diamonds at Home In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20070401163402.0670c2b0@frii.com> References: <461002FD.6030203@rcn.com> <7.0.1.0.0.20070401163402.0670c2b0@frii.com> Message-ID: That tale has been around the internet for several years if not longer. At least I'm sure I've seen it or a variant of it long ago. BK On 4/1/07, jerry wrote: > > who is the author and original newsletter? > > Jerry > > At 12:07 PM 4/1/07, you wrote: > > >hello > >I do not know WHICH newsletter this was taken from > >but I do know the AUTHOR and the newsletter in which > >mineral club newsletter I published it, FROM the author. > > Yes, it was for April 1.... > > > >Credit should be given to the author and the newsletter..... > > > >GeorgiaO > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date: 4/1/07 > 8:49 PM > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sun Apr 1 16:55:49 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sun Apr 1 16:55:53 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Proper credit.....How to Make Diamonds at Home In-Reply-To: References: <461002FD.6030203@rcn.com> <7.0.1.0.0.20070401163402.0670c2b0@frii.com> Message-ID: Indeed it is mentioned on this last on April 1st 2005 BK On 4/1/07, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > That tale has been around the internet for several years if not longer. At > least I'm sure I've seen it or a variant of it long ago. > > BK > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Sun Apr 1 17:09:29 2007 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Sun Apr 1 17:09:38 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Proper credit.....How to Make Diamonds at Home In-Reply-To: <461002FD.6030203@rcn.com> References: <461002FD.6030203@rcn.com> Message-ID: <001401c774bb$2efcbc10$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Initially published by the Pick and Pack Bulletin Of The Colorado Springs Mineralogical Society; http://www.csms.us/pickandpack/pickandpack2004/P&P%20Apr%202004.pdf Author: The author, Steve Russell, has been a member of the CSMS since 1994. If you have any further questions concerning this article you can contact the author at: sprussell@worldnet.att.net Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Frederick Olmstead Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:08 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Proper credit.....How to Make Diamonds at Home hello I do not know WHICH newsletter this was taken from but I do know the AUTHOR and the newsletter in which mineral club newsletter I published it, FROM the author. Yes, it was for April 1.... Credit should be given to the author and the newsletter..... GeorgiaO __..--..__..--..__..--..__ Lawrence Bull wrote: > Nice article....but I new better when I saw your name associated with > the article. > > Take care, > > Larry > > >> From: "Lawrence Rush" >> Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> Subject: [Rockhounds] How to Make Diamonds at Home >> Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 09:55:47 -0400 >> >> I don't know who wrote this, so I don't know where to give credits, >> but I thought it was a "timely" article! >> >> >> >> Larry Rush >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Making Diamonds at Home >> >> A fascinating event happened while I was attending the Tucson Show >> last year. I was in the room of Brazilian mineral dealer Joaquin >> Stick, and noticed a number of very nice, rather large diamond >> crystals for sale. When I inquired about them, I was introduced to an >> elderly gentleman sitting in the corner. This fascinating man was >> Professor Ilmeno Rutille, originally a professor of chemistry at the >> University of Bologna in Italy, but who had spent most of his >> professional career working for >> General Electric in their Diamond Synthesis Lab. >> Professor Rutille had synthesized all the diamond >> specimens I had seen in a laboratory in his home! >> >> I spent a very pleasant hour talking to this amazing man, and when I >> returned home, I began an e-mail >> correspondence with him. I'm afraid I pestered him for several months >> with questions about how these diamond crystals were grown, and >> finally he relented, saying he would show me the process if I would >> travel to his home laboratory in the mountains near Oakley, Kansas. >> >> It was late May when I arrived at Professor Rutille's >> home, and after introducing me to his wife, he took me to his >> laboratory located behind his garage. I was >> immediately struck by the lack of large, sophisticated equipment one >> would expect to find in a lab capable of synthesizing diamonds. >> >> I asked Prof. Rutille where he made his diamonds, as >> there was not a single piece of technical equipment in the place. >> "That is exactly why I asked you here," he replied, "Please sit >> down," and he pointed to two chairs against the wall. We sat down, >> and he handed me some papers. "It's all explained here," he said. >> While I looked at the papers, Prof. Rutille told a fascinating story. >> >> The early attempts to synthesize diamonds at the GE >> labs were a trial and error effort that did not succeed until it was >> discovered that with existing equipment, a catalyst was necessary to >> lower the temperature and pressure at which diamonds form. An amino >> acid present in animal muscle and fat tissue turned out to be the >> key. This was discovered when a technician was preparing samples to >> go into the furnace while eating a ham sandwich. A bit of >> ham contaminated the sample, but the technician went ahead with the >> test. The result was a diamond(small and very poor quality)but a >> diamond. This amino acid catalyst has been kept a secret ever since. >> >> The story continues in the 1980s when Prof. Rutille >> began work on a project in the GE Synthetic Stones Lab to synthesize >> elbaite tourmaline. The scientists added various metals to the >> chemical structure to change the color of the crystals. The results >> were disappointing, except in the case of copper. Adding copper >> produced a cuprian elbaite of a beautiful, but rather unbelievable, >> teal blue color. Further research was discontinued because his >> superiors felt that gems cut from this material looked fake. Prof. >> Rutille kept about half of the few hundred crystals produced, sending >> the rest to a mineral dealer friend in Paraiba, Brazil. >> >> Prof. Rutille wondered if copper might also produce a blue color in >> diamonds, and began a series of tests. The attempt to produce blue >> diamonds failed, but he found that the copper even more drastically >> reduced the temperature and pressure necessary to produce a diamond. >> In fact, a pressure of 650 pounds per square inch and a temperature >> of 112 degrees Fahrenheit were all that was necessary. This could be >> produced in a home laboratory! Prof. Rutille began to produce his own >> diamonds in his home lab, and those were the crystals I saw in Tucson. >> >> Prof. Rutille assured me that he would have grown rich selling >> diamond and never would have told me the details of how these >> diamonds were made if he had not been threatened by agents from GE >> and the De Beers Corporation a few weeks before my visit. He was so >> angry with his former employer that he asked me to publish his >> findings so that people everywhere could reproduce his results. I >> agreed, and below are >> instructions for synthesizing diamonds in your home or garage! >> >> Preparing the Sample >> >> copper pipe (the pipe and end caps are available at any home >> improvement center). Into the open end of the pipe, place 1.75 grams >> of the lunchmeat. This will provide the amino acid catalyst. Using a >> hammer or other tool, crumble the charcoal briquette into pieces >> small enough to fit into the copper pipe. Add exactly 4.2 grams of >> charcoal briquette, packing lightly with your finger (Photo 2). Note: >> DO NOT use briquettes with lighter fluid in them as this will >> contaminate the sample and cause a risk of fire or explosion! Add >> another 1.75 grams of >> lunchmeat on top of the packed charcoal briquette. Place the other >> end cap on the open end of the copper pipe, creating an enclosed >> container. Cut two round pieces of masking tape to fit the ends of >> the end caps, and place one piece of tape on each end cap (this will >> insulate the copper container from the jaws of the vice) (Photo 3). >> >> Creating the Diamond >> >> >> Note: Gloves and safety glasses should be worn during this step of >> the procedure! Place the copper container in the jaws of a large, >> heavy duty vice, one end cap against each jaw of the vice, and >> tighten enough to hold the container in place (Photo 4). Lay an >> accurate ruler across the top of the vice. It is necessary to close >> the vice one eighth of an inch to produce the necessary pressure. >> First, the container must be heated. Using the blow dryer on "high" >> setting, heat the container for a minimum of two minutes. Now, while >> continuing to heat the container, begin to close the vice, slowly. >> Some effort will be required, but continue closing the vice until you >> have collapsed the container one eighth of an inch. Continue to heat >> the container with the blow dryer for a minimum of four more minutes. >> Don't be surprised if you feel yourself getting hungry;it does smell >> like barbeque! After four minutes, the blow dryer may be turned off. >> Allow the container to cool for 30 minutes. Using a hacksaw,cut the >> container in half and remove your diamond! >> >> I know this leaves one question: What type of lunch-meat to use? I >> have experimented with several types, and I achieved my best results >> using pure baloney. >> >> Original Editor's note: If you are excited by the >> potential that the above article details, I recommend that you >> reevaluate the article. It is April 1, after all. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft > Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Mon Apr 2 03:36:14 2007 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Mon Apr 2 03:36:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for a Chondrite Message-ID: You might try Robert Haag Meteorites. I think he is in Arizona. Has a nice web site and catalog too. >>> spocksrocks@hotmail.com 04/01/07 10:37 AM >>> Hi rockhounds: Geology professor Monty Elliot, of Southern Oregon University in Ashland Oregon, has asked me to get him a chondrite for a class he will be teaching. He's absolutely a great guy, and has done a lot to build bridges between the university ivy league, and the local rockhound community. He's a true educator, in the sense that he doesn't care if you're in his class or not - you're going to learn something from him just by rubbing shoulders. I'd like to help him out, but I'm not a meteorite man. Does anyone have a reasonably priced chondrite, suitable for a classroom example? Anyone know a good source? Thanks for any help or steering you can give me on this one. Warm Regards - Scott Blair --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 2 06:42:21 2007 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Apr 2 06:41:35 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Proper credit.....How to Make Diamonds at Home References: <461002FD.6030203@rcn.com> <001401c774bb$2efcbc10$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <002901c7752c$bd5ae510$f9812b4b@LarryRush> Thanks, Ted: I probably should not have sent it to the Rockhounds Group without knowing the author, but I did state a disclaimer to that effect in the posting. I will contact Steve Russell for permission for the future. I am aware of the copywrite issues, but couldn't resist an April Fool's prank! Lesson learned.....Larry Rush ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Kowalski" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 8:09 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Proper credit.....How to Make Diamonds at Home > Initially published by the Pick and Pack Bulletin Of The Colorado Springs > Mineralogical Society; > http://www.csms.us/pickandpack/pickandpack2004/P&P%20Apr%202004.pdf > > Author: The author, Steve Russell, has been a member of > the CSMS since 1994. If you have any further > questions concerning this article you can contact > the author at: > sprussell@worldnet.att.net > > Ted Kowalski > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Frederick > Olmstead > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:08 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: [Rockhounds] Proper credit.....How to Make Diamonds at Home > > hello > I do not know WHICH newsletter this was taken from > but I do know the AUTHOR and the newsletter in which > mineral club newsletter I published it, FROM the author. > Yes, it was for April 1.... > > Credit should be given to the author and the newsletter..... > > GeorgiaO > > __..--..__..--..__..--..__ > Lawrence Bull wrote: > >> Nice article....but I new better when I saw your name associated with >> the article. >> >> Take care, >> >> Larry >> >> >>> From: "Lawrence Rush" >>> Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors" >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors" >>> Subject: [Rockhounds] How to Make Diamonds at Home >>> Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 09:55:47 -0400 >>> >>> I don't know who wrote this, so I don't know where to give credits, >>> but I thought it was a "timely" article! >>> >>> >>> >>> Larry Rush >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Making Diamonds at Home >>> >>> A fascinating event happened while I was attending the Tucson Show >>> last year. I was in the room of Brazilian mineral dealer Joaquin >>> Stick, and noticed a number of very nice, rather large diamond >>> crystals for sale. When I inquired about them, I was introduced to an >>> elderly gentleman sitting in the corner. This fascinating man was >>> Professor Ilmeno Rutille, originally a professor of chemistry at the >>> University of Bologna in Italy, but who had spent most of his >>> professional career working for >>> General Electric in their Diamond Synthesis Lab. >>> Professor Rutille had synthesized all the diamond >>> specimens I had seen in a laboratory in his home! >>> >>> I spent a very pleasant hour talking to this amazing man, and when I >>> returned home, I began an e-mail >>> correspondence with him. I'm afraid I pestered him for several months >>> with questions about how these diamond crystals were grown, and >>> finally he relented, saying he would show me the process if I would >>> travel to his home laboratory in the mountains near Oakley, Kansas. >>> >>> It was late May when I arrived at Professor Rutille's >>> home, and after introducing me to his wife, he took me to his >>> laboratory located behind his garage. I was >>> immediately struck by the lack of large, sophisticated equipment one >>> would expect to find in a lab capable of synthesizing diamonds. >>> >>> I asked Prof. Rutille where he made his diamonds, as >>> there was not a single piece of technical equipment in the place. >>> "That is exactly why I asked you here," he replied, "Please sit >>> down," and he pointed to two chairs against the wall. We sat down, >>> and he handed me some papers. "It's all explained here," he said. >>> While I looked at the papers, Prof. Rutille told a fascinating story. >>> >>> The early attempts to synthesize diamonds at the GE >>> labs were a trial and error effort that did not succeed until it was >>> discovered that with existing equipment, a catalyst was necessary to >>> lower the temperature and pressure at which diamonds form. An amino >>> acid present in animal muscle and fat tissue turned out to be the >>> key. This was discovered when a technician was preparing samples to >>> go into the furnace while eating a ham sandwich. A bit of >>> ham contaminated the sample, but the technician went ahead with the >>> test. The result was a diamond(small and very poor quality)but a >>> diamond. This amino acid catalyst has been kept a secret ever since. >>> >>> The story continues in the 1980s when Prof. Rutille >>> began work on a project in the GE Synthetic Stones Lab to synthesize >>> elbaite tourmaline. The scientists added various metals to the >>> chemical structure to change the color of the crystals. The results >>> were disappointing, except in the case of copper. Adding copper >>> produced a cuprian elbaite of a beautiful, but rather unbelievable, >>> teal blue color. Further research was discontinued because his >>> superiors felt that gems cut from this material looked fake. Prof. >>> Rutille kept about half of the few hundred crystals produced, sending >>> the rest to a mineral dealer friend in Paraiba, Brazil. >>> >>> Prof. Rutille wondered if copper might also produce a blue color in >>> diamonds, and began a series of tests. The attempt to produce blue >>> diamonds failed, but he found that the copper even more drastically >>> reduced the temperature and pressure necessary to produce a diamond. >>> In fact, a pressure of 650 pounds per square inch and a temperature >>> of 112 degrees Fahrenheit were all that was necessary. This could be >>> produced in a home laboratory! Prof. Rutille began to produce his own >>> diamonds in his home lab, and those were the crystals I saw in Tucson. >>> >>> Prof. Rutille assured me that he would have grown rich selling >>> diamond and never would have told me the details of how these >>> diamonds were made if he had not been threatened by agents from GE >>> and the De Beers Corporation a few weeks before my visit. He was so >>> angry with his former employer that he asked me to publish his >>> findings so that people everywhere could reproduce his results. I >>> agreed, and below are >>> instructions for synthesizing diamonds in your home or garage! >>> >>> Preparing the Sample >>> >>> copper pipe (the pipe and end caps are available at any home >>> improvement center). Into the open end of the pipe, place 1.75 grams >>> of the lunchmeat. This will provide the amino acid catalyst. Using a >>> hammer or other tool, crumble the charcoal briquette into pieces >>> small enough to fit into the copper pipe. Add exactly 4.2 grams of >>> charcoal briquette, packing lightly with your finger (Photo 2). Note: >>> DO NOT use briquettes with lighter fluid in them as this will >>> contaminate the sample and cause a risk of fire or explosion! Add >>> another 1.75 grams of >>> lunchmeat on top of the packed charcoal briquette. Place the other >>> end cap on the open end of the copper pipe, creating an enclosed >>> container. Cut two round pieces of masking tape to fit the ends of >>> the end caps, and place one piece of tape on each end cap (this will >>> insulate the copper container from the jaws of the vice) (Photo 3). >>> >>> Creating the Diamond >>> >>> >>> Note: Gloves and safety glasses should be worn during this step of >>> the procedure! Place the copper container in the jaws of a large, >>> heavy duty vice, one end cap against each jaw of the vice, and >>> tighten enough to hold the container in place (Photo 4). Lay an >>> accurate ruler across the top of the vice. It is necessary to close >>> the vice one eighth of an inch to produce the necessary pressure. >>> First, the container must be heated. Using the blow dryer on "high" >>> setting, heat the container for a minimum of two minutes. Now, while >>> continuing to heat the container, begin to close the vice, slowly. >>> Some effort will be required, but continue closing the vice until you >>> have collapsed the container one eighth of an inch. Continue to heat >>> the container with the blow dryer for a minimum of four more minutes. >>> Don't be surprised if you feel yourself getting hungry;it does smell >>> like barbeque! After four minutes, the blow dryer may be turned off. >>> Allow the container to cool for 30 minutes. Using a hacksaw,cut the >>> container in half and remove your diamond! >>> >>> I know this leaves one question: What type of lunch-meat to use? I >>> have experimented with several types, and I achieved my best results >>> using pure baloney. >>> >>> Original Editor's note: If you are excited by the >>> potential that the above article details, I recommend that you >>> reevaluate the article. It is April 1, after all. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft >> Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tam2819 at cox.net Sun Apr 1 21:12:43 2007 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Mon Apr 2 09:46:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip Ocean View Mine Message-ID: <6AACB813-C991-4BC4-9FF4-CE19D5B5189A@cox.net> This morning, bright and early, I joined internet faceter friend Robert Winfield and his daughter Allie for a day at the Ocean View Mine. We drove up Highway 76, from Oceanside, Ca. into the Pala Indian area, and up the hill from Magee Road. Check in was smooth, and a mandatory data sheet was completed before we drove onto mine property. Once there, parking was very easy, and close to where we screened. There was ample and pleasant assistance directing us to a screening spot after parking. Each individual was assigned a work space which included a pair of screens, both 1/2 and 1/4 inch, a bucket, and a small garden hand tool to move dirt and rocks. Between every two stations was a bucket of clean water, (for now) within which to rinse off screened material. This was quite adequate, and very efficient. This all formed a greater outside circle, within the center of which was a rather large pile of virgin fresh tailings. Blasting within the mine is done on Saturday, and the material on the floor from the blast is taken by back hoe and placed on the pile. None of this material has previously been gone through. The mine owners are happy to offer this material to we wo come up there to look for treasures. A preliminary talk is given to all attendees, basically showing how to spread the material, screen it, and what to look for within our screens. Everyone begins at the same time and with the same opportunities for discovery. My very first bucket full yielded a lovely aquamarine, my best find of the day. You work at your own pace, and strengths. This is not hard work, just shovel tailings into your bucket, carry it maybe 8 feet back to your screening station, and go from there. I guaranty you the piles of dirt below other peoples screening areas were far taller than mine, I felt as I more than got my money's worth. Yes age, weight, and strength do enter into the equation, I have nothing to gripe about. For persons living outside of the Southern California area, this is a great place to include within a vacation. Right down the road is the Pala Casino Hotel, with tons of amenities, a bit father away there are many wonderful and reasonable places to stay. San Diego County is a prime vacation area, and with good reason. There were tours into the mine, and today, I did not join any, many did and enjoyed the experience. Weather was perfect, and a wonderful time was had by all. Many were the shrieks of "look what I found." There were great and valuable pieces found, Spodumene, Tourmaline, Beryl, Aquamarine, wonderful color, and for specimen collectors, impressive terminated quartz, feldspar, and Ogiaclase (sp) as well as wonderful Mica Books. The $60. fee, includes everything above, unlimited Buckets of screening material, a nice covered picnic area, plenty of ice cold water, and even some home grown oranges and tangerines. They begin to wind down at 3 PM, and for me, that was a full day. I personally want to thank Jeff Swanger, Lisa and Steve Koonce, and all the wonderful assistants willing and able to identify finds, and generally be of great assistance. Please check the Web Site, for additional information. I heartily approve this message. Terrie From kadok at infowest.com Mon Apr 2 10:03:48 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Mon Apr 2 10:03:44 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for a Chondrite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001c01c77548$e1820c40$0200a8c0@kadok> Another possibility: Southwest Meteorite Lab P.O. Box 95 Payson Az 85547.1-928-474-9515 email@meteoritelab.com Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of William Dicks Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 3:36 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Looking for a Chondrite You might try Robert Haag Meteorites. I think he is in Arizona. Has a nice web site and catalog too. >>> spocksrocks@hotmail.com 04/01/07 10:37 AM >>> Hi rockhounds: Geology professor Monty Elliot, of Southern Oregon University in Ashland Oregon, has asked me to get him a chondrite for a class he will be teaching. He's absolutely a great guy, and has done a lot to build bridges between the university ivy league, and the local rockhound community. He's a true educator, in the sense that he doesn't care if you're in his class or not - you're going to learn something from him just by rubbing shoulders. I'd like to help him out, but I'm not a meteorite man. Does anyone have a reasonably priced chondrite, suitable for a classroom example? Anyone know a good source? Thanks for any help or steering you can give me on this one. Warm Regards - Scott Blair From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 2 11:58:21 2007 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Apr 2 11:58:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <164097.99516.qm@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'll be posting the April update to the price lists on www.sauktown.com later today. This month is mostly material from the Michigan copper country: copper, prehnite, epidote, microcline, etc. on the main list. There are also additions to the thumbnail and mounted lists as well. I've also added more photos to the Dryer list. I'm still not satisfied with the results of my photography, though, and will probably redo them soon. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com orders@sauktown.com --------------------------------- Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From mike at colellaphoto.com Mon Apr 2 13:22:52 2007 From: mike at colellaphoto.com (Mike Colella) Date: Mon Apr 2 12:23:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Collecting in Paris and the south In-Reply-To: <164097.99516.qm@web34302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200704021619764.SM01260@Travel2> A friend just asked me if I know of any areas, or contacts to do some collection ( rocks & fossils) in Paris and the south of France. Anyone collected there? Mike C -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.24/742 - Release Date: 4/1/2007 From pmodreski at aol.com Mon Apr 2 12:59:11 2007 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 2 12:59:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for a Chondrite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C94378845D71DE-3DC-915D@webmail-mf19.sysops.aol.com> Hi Scott, Let me try to offer a little advice too. The most reasonably-priced chondritic meteorites are the abundant ones being found in Morocco, Algeria, and adjacent regions of North West Africa. Local hunters have been finding a great many here, and they have been for sale in Tucson and other mineral shows at extremely reasonable prices, partly because they have not been catalogued, numbered, and studied by any scientific authorities, and because the exact localities are not divulged by the people who find them. Most of these found are chondrites. A dealer whom I'd like to recommend to you is Blaine Reed, of Delta, CO. I don't think he has a website but you can contact him at 970-874-1487 (P.O. Box 1141, Delta, CO, 81416). Blaine mails out a monthly price list, and looking at it, I see he advertises intact individual NWA meteorites for about $0.40 per gram, and sawed pieces showing the interior for about $0.50 per gram. (About 20 to 75 grams will make a nice specimen that's between about one to two inches across.) I just looked at one or two websites, and I see prices online that are comparable to what I've quoted here, perhaps generally a little higher. Chondritic meteorites from "named" locations are generally more expensive, more like $1 to $2 per gram. I hope this is of some additional help, Pete Modreski -----Original Message----- From: spocksrocks@hotmail.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 8:37 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for a Chondrite Hi rockhounds: Geology professor Monty Elliot, of Southern Oregon University in Ashland Oregon, has asked me to get him a chondrite for a class he will be teaching. He's absolutely a great guy, and has done a lot to build bridges between the university ivy league, and the local rockhound community. He's a true educator, in the sense that he doesn't care if you're in his class or not - you're going to learn something from him just by rubbing shoulders. I'd like to help him out, but I'm not a meteorite man. Does anyone have a reasonably priced chondrite, suitable for a classroom example? Anyone know a good source? Thanks for any help or steering you can give me on this one. Warm Regards - Scott Blair --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Tue Apr 3 06:15:22 2007 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Tue Apr 3 06:15:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction In-Reply-To: <293599.66651.qm@web51109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <000f01c7721e$d8754d60$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <293599.66651.qm@web51109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dean, Thanks for the info - I am actually very pleased to learn that good material can still be collected there. Do you or any other list members know if the BLM, in their infinite wisdom, will be closing the Clear Creek area again this summer? best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 3/31/07, Dean Welder wrote: > > All, > > definately not "gone" - I was on a trip there recently and have come > home with many (more specimens than I can count on a single hand, > possibly two but I haven't finished going through my spoils) definate > benitoite specimens. Also many more neptunites. Possibly one or two > with fresnoite. And the copper related mineral whose name I keep > forgetting. > > One of my finds has a couple of "local legends" for benitoite excited. > The whole piece is in the 30 pound range. I'm going to get it > professionally prepared. Hopefully it will be close to another that was > found by another person the same day that is reputed to be in the > $1000+ value range. > > Dean > --- jaybates wrote: > > > JR > > > > The mine has been mined out commercially but there are still > > benitoites to > > be found in the tailings. Just because commercial operations have > > shut down > > doesn't mean there is nothing left. Benitoite is really only found > > viably in > > one deposit, at the Benitoite Gem mine. It is extremely rare and a > > very > > beautiful gemstone. You can also find specimens with benitoite, > > neptuneite > > and jouquinite in natrulate matrix at the mine. I have attached a > > writeup I > > did, you and others might enjoy. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: J. R. Hodel > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:11 AM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction > > > > > > > Hi: > > > > > > I thought I had heard that Collector's Edge has mined out the > > deposit > > where the benitoite was found - but I could be wrong, or that could > > be true > > and folks are going to work through their tailings. Either way this > > is > > interesting... > > > > > > But whichever - I'm a fan of science fiction, and the other day I > > picked > > up a novel by Howard Hendrix, and in the first 3 pages, the "prelude" > > a > > young boy and his older Uncle were in a shaft, searching for > > benitoite. > > Uncle tells the youngster that benitoite is nearly the rarest gem > > stone, far > > rarer than diamonds. As a result, there isn't an organized market > > (in the > > formal economic sense) for benitoite like there is for diamonds. > > > > > > He goes on to say that the rarest gems are from meteorites...which > > gems > > turn out to be the hook for the whole novel, named "Spears of God". > > I'm > > only 20 or 30 pages into it, and meteorites appear to be important to > > evolution and the plot and so forth. > > > > > > Off topic a little, but I was instantly interested. > > > > > > JR in WV > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > > > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.20/736 - Release Date: > > 3/27/07 > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/mixed > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > application/msword > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us Tue Apr 3 07:17:53 2007 From: DicksWi at northville.k12.mi.us (William Dicks) Date: Tue Apr 3 07:18:14 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for a Chondrite Message-ID: I took Petes advice .... googled Blaine Reed .... found http://www.reedmeteorites.com/ >>> pmodreski@aol.com 04/02/07 3:59 PM >>> Hi Scott, Let me try to offer a little advice too. The most reasonably-priced chondritic meteorites are the abundant ones being found in Morocco, Algeria, and adjacent regions of North West Africa. Local hunters have been finding a great many here, and they have been for sale in Tucson and other mineral shows at extremely reasonable prices, partly because they have not been catalogued, numbered, and studied by any scientific authorities, and because the exact localities are not divulged by the people who find them. Most of these found are chondrites. A dealer whom I'd like to recommend to you is Blaine Reed, of Delta, CO. I don't think he has a website but you can contact him at 970-874-1487 (P.O. Box 1141, Delta, CO, 81416). Blaine mails out a monthly price list, and looking at it, I see he advertises intact individual NWA meteorites for about $0.40 per gram, and sawed pieces showing the interior for about $0.50 per gram. (About 20 to 75 grams will make a nice specimen that's between about one to two inches across.) I just looked at one or two websites, and I see prices online that are comparable to what I've quoted here, perhaps generally a little higher. Chondritic meteorites from "named" locations are generally more expensive, more like $1 to $2 per gram. I hope this is of some additional help, Pete Modreski -----Original Message----- From: spocksrocks@hotmail.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 8:37 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for a Chondrite Hi rockhounds: Geology professor Monty Elliot, of Southern Oregon University in Ashland Oregon, has asked me to get him a chondrite for a class he will be teaching. He's absolutely a great guy, and has done a lot to build bridges between the university ivy league, and the local rockhound community. He's a true educator, in the sense that he doesn't care if you're in his class or not - you're going to learn something from him just by rubbing shoulders. I'd like to help him out, but I'm not a meteorite man. Does anyone have a reasonably priced chondrite, suitable for a classroom example? Anyone know a good source? Thanks for any help or steering you can give me on this one. Warm Regards - Scott Blair --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Apr 3 08:18:17 2007 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Tue Apr 3 08:15:12 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction References: <000f01c7721e$d8754d60$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com><293599.66651.qm@web51109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000701c77603$4ef7f180$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Whatever the BLM does, and I think they will close the area to off-road use, the main road will be open to the top and over to the east side and the Benitoite mine. ----- Original Message ----- From: Nathan Martin To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 6:15 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction > Dean, > Thanks for the info - I am actually very pleased to learn that good material > can still be collected there. > Do you or any other list members know if the BLM, in their infinite wisdom, > will be closing the Clear Creek area again this summer? > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > On 3/31/07, Dean Welder wrote: > > > > All, > > > > definately not "gone" - I was on a trip there recently and have come > > home with many (more specimens than I can count on a single hand, > > possibly two but I haven't finished going through my spoils) definate > > benitoite specimens. Also many more neptunites. Possibly one or two > > with fresnoite. And the copper related mineral whose name I keep > > forgetting. > > > > One of my finds has a couple of "local legends" for benitoite excited. > > The whole piece is in the 30 pound range. I'm going to get it > > professionally prepared. Hopefully it will be close to another that was > > found by another person the same day that is reputed to be in the > > $1000+ value range. > > > > Dean > > --- jaybates wrote: > > > > > JR > > > > > > The mine has been mined out commercially but there are still > > > benitoites to > > > be found in the tailings. Just because commercial operations have > > > shut down > > > doesn't mean there is nothing left. Benitoite is really only found > > > viably in > > > one deposit, at the Benitoite Gem mine. It is extremely rare and a > > > very > > > beautiful gemstone. You can also find specimens with benitoite, > > > neptuneite > > > and jouquinite in natrulate matrix at the mine. I have attached a > > > writeup I > > > did, you and others might enjoy. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: J. R. Hodel > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:11 AM > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction > > > > > > > > > > Hi: > > > > > > > > I thought I had heard that Collector's Edge has mined out the > > > deposit > > > where the benitoite was found - but I could be wrong, or that could > > > be true > > > and folks are going to work through their tailings. Either way this > > > is > > > interesting... > > > > > > > > But whichever - I'm a fan of science fiction, and the other day I > > > picked > > > up a novel by Howard Hendrix, and in the first 3 pages, the "prelude" > > > a > > > young boy and his older Uncle were in a shaft, searching for > > > benitoite. > > > Uncle tells the youngster that benitoite is nearly the rarest gem > > > stone, far > > > rarer than diamonds. As a result, there isn't an organized market > > > (in the > > > formal economic sense) for benitoite like there is for diamonds. > > > > > > > > He goes on to say that the rarest gems are from meteorites...which > > > gems > > > turn out to be the hook for the whole novel, named "Spears of God". > > > I'm > > > only 20 or 30 pages into it, and meteorites appear to be important to > > > evolution and the plot and so forth. > > > > > > > > Off topic a little, but I was instantly interested. > > > > > > > > JR in WV > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > > > > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > > multipart/alternative > > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > > text/html > > > > --- > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.20/736 - Release Date: > > > 3/27/07 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/mixed > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > application/msword > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ > > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. > > http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/ > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.23/740 - Release Date: 3/30/07 > > From JHODEL at wvdep.org Tue Apr 3 09:02:21 2007 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Tue Apr 3 09:02:34 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Field Trip report Message-ID: Hi Teresa, Thanks for the field trip report, which is what we join the Rockhounds list for! JR in WV J. R. Hodel Information Systems Manager II Information Technology Office, WV Dept. of Environmental Protection 601 57th Street S.E. Charleston, WV 25304 ph. (304) 926-0499 ext:1614 From rpr at heidelberg.edu Tue Apr 3 18:52:25 2007 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Tue Apr 3 18:52:30 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] color in celestite Message-ID: <8A9ABB25-9F3E-4994-BCB0-6157C744F8BB@heidelberg.edu> Does anybody know anything authoritatively about the cause of the blue color in celestite? I'm looking particularly for scholarly studies, etc. Sorry, speculations are welcome but will be awarded only partial credit! Thanks, Pete Richards ___________________________________ R. Peter Richards rpr@heidelberg.edu Morphological crystallographer --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From marksigouin at verizon.net Tue Apr 3 19:15:06 2007 From: marksigouin at verizon.net (Mark Sigouin) Date: Tue Apr 3 19:15:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] color in celestite References: <8A9ABB25-9F3E-4994-BCB0-6157C744F8BB@heidelberg.edu> Message-ID: <000501c7765f$10778ef0$6400a8c0@your71um0ya7hl> Please share when you find out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Peter Richards" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:52 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] color in celestite > Does anybody know anything authoritatively about the cause of the blue > color in celestite? I'm looking particularly for scholarly studies, etc. > Sorry, speculations are welcome but will be awarded only partial credit! > > Thanks, > Pete Richards > > ___________________________________ > R. Peter Richards > rpr@heidelberg.edu > Morphological crystallographer > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rutile1 at carolina.rr.com Tue Apr 3 19:27:10 2007 From: rutile1 at carolina.rr.com (Todd Hamrick) Date: Tue Apr 3 19:27:06 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] color in celestite In-Reply-To: <8A9ABB25-9F3E-4994-BCB0-6157C744F8BB@heidelberg.edu> References: <8A9ABB25-9F3E-4994-BCB0-6157C744F8BB@heidelberg.edu> Message-ID: <46130CFE.6020903@carolina.rr.com> Pete, Try this. http://www.minsocam.org/msa/collectors_corner/arc/color.htm. Find celestite in page search from browser. Todd From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 05:27:21 2007 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Apr 4 05:27:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] color in celestite In-Reply-To: <46130CFE.6020903@carolina.rr.com> References: <8A9ABB25-9F3E-4994-BCB0-6157C744F8BB@heidelberg.edu> <46130CFE.6020903@carolina.rr.com> Message-ID: Todd, Thanks for the great link Pete for info even more specific to your question try http://www.minsocam.org/MSA/collectors_corner/arc/celestite.htm Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 4/3/07, Todd Hamrick wrote: > > Pete, > Try this. http://www.minsocam.org/msa/collectors_corner/arc/color.htm. > Find celestite in page search from browser. > Todd > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rpr at heidelberg.edu Wed Apr 4 05:47:49 2007 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Wed Apr 4 05:47:53 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] color in celestite In-Reply-To: <8A9ABB25-9F3E-4994-BCB0-6157C744F8BB@heidelberg.edu> References: <8A9ABB25-9F3E-4994-BCB0-6157C744F8BB@heidelberg.edu> Message-ID: Thanks to Todd and Nathan for providing excellent references to authoritative papers on colors in minerals, specifically celestite. I encourage those of you who are interested in the causes of color in minerals to check out these papers. It is amazing to me how much the web is becoming a virtual library. It's cold and nasty and getting worse here, and I don't even have to leave my study to get my eyes on those articles. Pete Richards From spocksrocks at hotmail.com Wed Apr 4 07:56:23 2007 From: spocksrocks at hotmail.com (Scott Blair) Date: Wed Apr 4 07:56:26 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chondrites Message-ID: Many thanks to the various list members who took the time to share so much great information on chondrites. I really appreciate the spirit of sharing that arises in our group from time to time. I'll hope that I can be of some service to some of you in the future. Warm Regards - Scott Blair --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tbmanitowoc at yahoo.com Wed Apr 4 14:29:23 2007 From: tbmanitowoc at yahoo.com (timothy meehan) Date: Wed Apr 4 14:29:26 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocksaw Message-ID: <577873.76200.qm@web61120.mail.yahoo.com> trying to find a gear to fix my saw it is a sixteen frantom --------------------------------- Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From territoones1 at ameritech.net Wed Apr 4 22:48:46 2007 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Wed Apr 4 22:48:49 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] rocksaw In-Reply-To: <577873.76200.qm@web61120.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <771495.77254.qm@web81714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, depending on the gear, would it be posible to take it to a machine shop? I have used a machine shop for various things, I dont' know how much they would charge, but depending on the gear, they might be able to duplicate it for you. --- timothy meehan wrote: > trying to find a gear to fix my saw it is a > sixteen frantom > > --------------------------------- > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 > hotels > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your > fit. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jeanne at jeannius.com Fri Apr 6 05:41:30 2007 From: jeanne at jeannius.com (Jeanne Rhodes-Moen) Date: Fri Apr 6 05:41:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] giant gypsum crystals and their formation Message-ID: <46163FFA.9060006@jeannius.com> interesting article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6518161.stm -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *My Jewelry:* *http://www.jeannius.com* *Silver Threads, Making Wire Filigree Jewelry(Book):* *http://www.silverthreadsfiligree.com* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* *Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com* *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From murowchickj at umkc.edu Fri Apr 6 11:06:46 2007 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Fri Apr 6 11:04:55 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] giant gypsum crystals and their formation In-Reply-To: <46163FFA.9060006@jeannius.com> Message-ID: Check out http://www.naica.com.mx for more info. A group of cave researchers has (according to them) exclusive access, and appear to be making a documentary on this extraordinary site. Jim On 4/6/07 7:41 AM, "Jeanne Rhodes-Moen" wrote: > interesting article: > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6518161.stm --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Apr 6 12:56:30 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Apr 6 12:54:47 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] help finding small vacuum pump for casting In-Reply-To: <200703020810.l228AuhK024096@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <45E7C086.7030401@jeannius.com> <200703020810.l228AuhK024096@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <4616A5EE.4020101@verizon.net> Howdy, I have been looking for a small vacuum pump to draw the bubbles out of casting media. I have a small hand pump but it is very tedious to use and I can't get the vacuum lower than 1/3 atmosphere. I did a web search and came up with all sorts of industrial pumps that are too big and too expensive. If anyone knows where I can get something like this, please let me know. Thanks, Don From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Apr 6 13:46:06 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Apr 6 13:46:14 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] help finding small vacuum pump for casting In-Reply-To: <4616A5EE.4020101@verizon.net> References: <45E7C086.7030401@jeannius.com> <200703020810.l228AuhK024096@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4616A5EE.4020101@verizon.net> Message-ID: What about an aspirator. These attach to a faucet an use Bernoulli's effect to pull a vacuum down to maybe 2 or 3 inches of water. Here's a plastic one for $11: I don't know if you can order from Fisher but Cole Parmer probably carries them since it is Nalgene brand. You have to be careful not to interupt the flow or suddenly disrupt the vacuum since that can squirt water down the vacuum line. Otherwise they have no moving parts and are foolproof. BK On 4/6/07, DonH wrote: > > > Howdy, > > I have been looking for a small vacuum pump to draw the bubbles out of > casting media. I have a small hand pump but it is very tedious to use > and I can't get the vacuum lower than 1/3 atmosphere. I did a web > search and came up with all sorts of industrial pumps that are too big > and too expensive. If anyone knows where I can get something like this, > please let me know. > > Thanks, > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Apr 6 14:21:49 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Apr 6 14:20:09 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] help finding small vacuum pump for casting In-Reply-To: References: <45E7C086.7030401@jeannius.com> <200703020810.l228AuhK024096@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4616A5EE.4020101@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4616B9ED.1000508@verizon.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > What about an aspirator. These attach to a faucet an use Bernoulli's effect > to pull a vacuum down to maybe 2 or 3 inches of water. Here's a plastic one > for $11: > > Wow that's really neat. I'm not sure if that would work for me, but it's interesting to know it's out there. Thanks for the link. Don P.S. That reminded me to look at the Cole-Parmer Catalog. They have a small one that pulls down to 8.8" Hg which is enough for me; more than I wanted to spend, but I can also use it for vacuum filtering, and it seems compact, quiet, and easy to use. Better than hauling over to the lab to use the huge monster every time I want to mount a few specimens and get the bubbles out of the mounting medium. From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Apr 6 16:13:21 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Apr 6 16:13:26 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dilithium! In-Reply-To: <4616B9ED.1000508@verizon.net> References: <45E7C086.7030401@jeannius.com><200703020810.l228AuhK024096@bubbleator.drizzle.com><4616A5EE.4020101@verizon.net> <4616B9ED.1000508@verizon.net> Message-ID: <01c401c778a1$2bcd2180$6b01a8c0@okapi> Hey kids, Be the first on YOUR block to own some Genewine DILITHIUM CRYSTALS! Item No. 140105040342 on eBay. <> Gary Brown Catspaw-Minerals http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk From Ted at crystalgems.com Fri Apr 6 17:36:26 2007 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Fri Apr 6 17:36:40 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] help finding small vacuum pump for casting In-Reply-To: <4616A5EE.4020101@verizon.net> References: <45E7C086.7030401@jeannius.com><200703020810.l228AuhK024096@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4616A5EE.4020101@verizon.net> Message-ID: <004401c778ac$c6c1dbd0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Don: Sounds to me like you are looking for an old compressor from a refrigerator, freezer or AC. Try http://users.pandora.be/Toothless/Toothless/pages/instructions/vacuum/vacuum .html for a rough idea of the design and http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/EVS/concept.htm for solid construction details. Only instead of building a vacuum bagging system for woodworking you will be building the same system to hold a consistent vacuum on your molds. Build a large enough reservoir and you can de-bubble several molds quickly since you will not have to build a new vacuum each time. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 3:57 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] help finding small vacuum pump for casting Howdy, I have been looking for a small vacuum pump to draw the bubbles out of casting media. I have a small hand pump but it is very tedious to use and I can't get the vacuum lower than 1/3 atmosphere. I did a web search and came up with all sorts of industrial pumps that are too big and too expensive. If anyone knows where I can get something like this, please let me know. Thanks, Don -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Alpen at aol.com Fri Apr 6 19:19:50 2007 From: Alpen at aol.com (Alpen@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 6 19:20:06 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] help finding small vacuum pump for casting Message-ID: Don, Air conditioning or refrigeration contractors use vacuum pumps a lot to pull a vacuum on refrigerant systems. In my company we replace them periodically because they won't pull a deep enough vacuum for our purpose. But they would work for what you need. You might try calling around to some service contractors and see if they're getting rid of any. It shouldn't cost much of anything since they will either be tossing it or paying a lot to get it rebuilt. Eric In a message dated 4/6/2007 7:02:53 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 3:57 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] help finding small vacuum pump for casting Howdy, I have been looking for a small vacuum pump to draw the bubbles out of casting media. I have a small hand pump but it is very tedious to use and I can't get the vacuum lower than 1/3 atmosphere. I did a web search and came up with all sorts of industrial pumps that are too big and too expensive. If anyone knows where I can get something like this, please let me know. Thanks, Don ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From luka2 at telkomsa.net Sat Apr 7 01:00:56 2007 From: luka2 at telkomsa.net (Luka Berkovic) Date: Sat Apr 7 01:04:52 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] African specimens Message-ID: <000001c778ea$dfc812a0$7b46ef9b@luka> Hi if anyone is interested in these specimens please reply to this email, I have references if you need. If you are interested in taking all of the pieces I can give you a very good price, obviously if you take only 2 or 3 the price will remain the same, and postage would be at your expense. Please also take not i am a amateur photographer and am still learning, the pieces are all undamaged and are of a very good quality. Luka Email: lukasminerals@telkomsa.net Code Sm1. Smithsonite from Tsumeb, very rare for it to have fine needles, 9.5 x 4.2 x 5cm. $100 code AZ2. extremely gemmy Azurite on a matrix from Tsumeb, some of the larger Crystals are pseudomorphing into malachite, you probably will not get more gemmy than this, it is abnormally gemmy, the is no damage, there is natural contact. Don't let that stop you it is an amazing specimen, you would be stupid not to take it. 10.5 x 11.5cm. $400 code Di3. Dioptase thumbnail from Tsumeb, very nice luster and good colour.$ 130 code CU4. cuprionsmithsonite with duftite from Tsumeb. 7.5 x 5.1cm. $65 code MA6. malachite from the DRC, very good luster. 5.5 x 5.5cm. $50 code IN8. inecite from Kuruman. Excellent specimen. 10.5 x 5.5cm. $210 code FL10. fluorite with orthoclaise and schorl from Erongo. Very nice colour and attractive specimen. 6.8 x 3.5cm. $100 AJ11. Ajoite in Quartz from Messina, not a very common specimens at the moment and for this price, its a bargain. 18 x 15 x 15cm. $670 Code AQ12. Aquamarine miniature. $90 Code Di13. Dioptase very good colour and luster. 5.5 x 3.5cm $90 code ET15. Ettringite from the wessels mine, very large piece, very rare for this size Ettringite. 4.2 x 2.3cm. $230 Code BR16. Brandberg amethyst quartz. excellent colour. 12 x 4cm $400 Code Br 17. Brandberg quartz very good colour , excellent specimen. 10.5 x 5cm. $530 Code Et18. Ettringite from the wessels, very nice bright yellow colour. 5.5 x 3.5cm. $80 code VA19. Vanadanite on Barite from mibladen Morocco. Excellent specimen, very good crystals. 4.5 x 4cm. $120 Code Si20. Siderite with Sphaelarite after calcite from Northern Cape. Exceptional specimen, probably the 3rd best ever found, normal price would sell for 3000 euros. 26 x 21cm. $2400. I would definitely recommend this specimen, it is excellent. Code FL22. Fluorite from Erongo. Very rare and unusual for such a deep purple. 8.5 x 5.5cm. $100 Code AZ24. Azurite from Tsumeb. Very gemmy. 7 x 5cm.$ 120 Code FL26. Fluorite from Reemvasmaak near the Orange river. 4.5 x 4.5cm $100 Code BR27. Brandberg Smoky quartz, very good specimen, with a water bubble inclusion. 13.5 x 11.5cm. $150 Code MA28. Malachite and calcite from Tsumeb, very nice luster and colour. 9 x 7cm. $90 Code Di30. Dioptase on calcite. 7 x 6cm. $80 CodeQu32. Quartz from Erongo with Babingtonite, which is very rare, very nice specimen with lots of character and luster. Small cabinet size.$90 Jan Coetzee quartz. 9 x 7 x 4.5. $250 jan coetzee quartz. 6 x 3 x 4.5. $150 Jan coetzee quartz. 6 x 4.5 x 4.5. $150 62 Tsumeb thumbnails, some rarities and some average but all excellent undamaged pieces at $25 a specimen -----Original Message----- From: Cycadwood@aol.com [mailto:Cycadwood@aol.com] Sent: 12 February 2007 06:47 AM To: lukasminerals@telkomsa.net Subject: Re: Brandburg In a message dated 2/11/2007 9:44:52 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, luka2@telkomsa.net writes: Ok great I will picture whatever I think would interest! I wont picture minerals that are priced more than $500 for a a specimen as I don't know what your budget is. *****You can go higher if it is an especially nice specimen. Frank Daniels Minerals & Fossils 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, Colorado 81503-9522 cycadwood@aol.com or tradingcompany@westerncoloradopublishing.com 970.242.5255 cell 970.216.9641 museum quality specimens --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sat Apr 7 06:23:31 2007 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sat Apr 7 06:23:34 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Casting media? Off Topic? Message-ID: <374732.28262.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: Alright, I'll bite, what's casting media, how does it get bubbles in it, how do you use a vacuum pump to get the bubble out, and why isn't it off topic on a rockhounding list? JR --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jeanne at jeannius.com Sat Apr 7 06:52:54 2007 From: jeanne at jeannius.com (Jeanne Rhodes-Moen) Date: Sat Apr 7 06:53:01 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Casting media? Off Topic? In-Reply-To: <374732.28262.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <374732.28262.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4617A236.6090003@jeannius.com> My guess is it's someone who does lapidary and jewelry as well as rockhounding. Usually, when you cast jewelry, you make wax models of the jewelry and put them on a rubber base and then put a flask (metal tube) over it. This is then usually filled with a special plaster. This plaster has air in it from mixing it and from the nooks and crannies around the wax models., Usually, you place it under a bell jar and evacuate the air with a vacuum pump in order to force the bubbles out of the plaster. If you don't do this, you will have air bubbles on what you are casting. I'm assuming this person has the bell jar set up, as just a pump won't do the trick. If he's not getting enough vacuum, he might want to check his hose connections, bell jar or rubber mat (sits under bell jar) for leaks before he/she invests in a new pump. so, from rockhounds to lapidary to jewelry is the most likely connection. But if asker really want answers regarding casting, he/she might want to try a jewelry related group. Jeanne http://www.jeannius.com J. R. Hodel wrote: > Hi: > > Alright, I'll bite, what's casting media, how does it get bubbles in it, how do you use a vacuum pump to get the bubble out, and why isn't it off topic on a rockhounding list? > > JR > > > --------------------------------- > Bored stiff? Loosen up... > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *My Jewelry:* *http://www.jeannius.com* *Silver Threads, Making Wire Filigree Jewelry(Book):* *http://www.silverthreadsfiligree.com* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* *Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com* *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jeanne at jeannius.com Sat Apr 7 06:57:28 2007 From: jeanne at jeannius.com (Jeanne Rhodes-Moen) Date: Sat Apr 7 06:57:34 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] help finding small vacuum pump for casting In-Reply-To: <4616A5EE.4020101@verizon.net> References: <45E7C086.7030401@jeannius.com> <200703020810.l228AuhK024096@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4616A5EE.4020101@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4617A348.3090608@jeannius.com> to be really effective, you have to get it down to at least 26 or so (I think it's bars).....or whatever vacuum is measured in.....You may want to watch out for estate sales...I just bought a complete vacuum caster with a heavy pump for $75 last weekend! the pump, new, costs $1400! I'm assuming you have a bell jar, rubber mat and so on? Jeanne DonH wrote: > > Howdy, > > I have been looking for a small vacuum pump to draw the bubbles out of > casting media. I have a small hand pump but it is very tedious to use > and I can't get the vacuum lower than 1/3 atmosphere. I did a web > search and came up with all sorts of industrial pumps that are too big > and too expensive. If anyone knows where I can get something like > this, please let me know. > > Thanks, > Don > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *My Jewelry:* *http://www.jeannius.com* *Silver Threads, Making Wire Filigree Jewelry(Book):* *http://www.silverthreadsfiligree.com* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* *Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com* *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Apr 7 08:30:43 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Apr 7 08:29:15 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Casting media? Off Topic? In-Reply-To: <374732.28262.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <374732.28262.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4617B923.6020108@verizon.net> J. R. Hodel wrote: > Hi: > > Alright, I'll bite, what's casting media, Hi J.R., As someone already explained, it is used for jewelry making, and sometimes for embedding specimens for polishing. I know a lot of people here have experience with this so I figured they could help. I would consider it marginally on topic, but I could see how someone unfamiliar with the terms could wonder what was being discussed. Best, Don From albalmer at att.net Sat Apr 7 09:01:24 2007 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sat Apr 7 09:01:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Casting media? Off Topic? In-Reply-To: <4617B923.6020108@verizon.net> References: <374732.28262.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4617B923.6020108@verizon.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 08:30:43 -0700, DonH wrote: >J. R. Hodel wrote: > >> Hi: >> >> Alright, I'll bite, what's casting media, > > >Hi J.R., > >As someone already explained, it is used for jewelry making, and >sometimes for embedding specimens for polishing. I know a lot of people >here have experience with this so I figured they could help. > >I would consider it marginally on topic, but I could see how someone >unfamiliar with the terms could wonder what was being discussed. > Still, you would get much better advice on a forum where it's topical. there are many, but the newsgroup rec.crafts.jewelry and the Orchid mailing list are two that I read. Go to www.ganoksin.com. Actually, you can search their archives without subscribing to the free mailing list. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From Jeanne at jeannius.com Sat Apr 7 09:07:54 2007 From: Jeanne at jeannius.com (Jeanne Rhodes-Moen) Date: Sat Apr 7 09:08:01 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Casting media? Off Topic? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ganoksin is better than rec.crafts.jewelry. There's been a history of certain posters(one in particular) on rec.c.jewelry making a point of making others feel inferior. I know more than one person who's given up on that group because of that. Orchid (Ganoksin) is fairly professional and helpful...others include jewelryarts, artjewelry, and silversmithing...all yahoogroups. Jeanne On 4/7/07 12:01 PM, "Al Balmer" wrote: > On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 08:30:43 -0700, DonH > wrote: > >> J. R. Hodel wrote: >> >>> Hi: >>> >>> Alright, I'll bite, what's casting media, >> >> >> Hi J.R., >> >> As someone already explained, it is used for jewelry making, and >> sometimes for embedding specimens for polishing. I know a lot of people >> here have experience with this so I figured they could help. >> >> I would consider it marginally on topic, but I could see how someone >> unfamiliar with the terms could wonder what was being discussed. >> > Still, you would get much better advice on a forum where it's topical. > there are many, but the newsgroup rec.crafts.jewelry and the Orchid > mailing list are two that I read. Go to www.ganoksin.com. Actually, > you can search their archives without subscribing to the free mailing > list. Jewelry: http://www.jeannius.com Book: http://www.silverthreadsfiligree.com Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com From turnea55 at hotmail.com Sat Apr 7 09:38:46 2007 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Sat Apr 7 09:38:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] University name change In-Reply-To: <374732.28262.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just thought this was a bit stupid. I received my master's degree in geology (geochemistry) from the University of Missouri-Rolla (Missouri School of Mines) in 2003. The school is a very well known geology/engineering school (ranked up there with the Colorado School of Mines). Anyway, they just approved a name change for the university. It will now be called the Missouri School of Science and Technology (Missouri S&T). This is great, now what do I put on my resume? More importantly, are they going to re-issue my degree now? One of my friends suggested they add an "h" and "i" to the name as well to reflect the name change. Apparently the school must be even more desparate for students that originally thought. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA USA From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Sat Apr 7 09:55:37 2007 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Sat Apr 7 09:55:56 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] University name change In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003601c77935$92cf3870$f238a8c0@D8YF2G81> This is just personal opinion, but I would put something like Master's degree in geology (geochemistry) from the University of Missouri-Rolla (Missouri School of Mines) (now known as Missouri School of Science and Technology) Why? Well if you are applying to a place with an Alumni, or someone who has had previous good experience with graduates under the original name, you want to hook his interest, but by the same token you want to get the new name out there too, because if a prospective employer wants to verify your degree, having the drone in the HR department call telephone information for the schools number, and be told there is no listing for " University of Missouri-Rolla" could do you out of a job... But in any case the primary name "degree from" should match your paperwork. So in say they were to reissue the paperwork under the new name then it would reverse. Just my 2 cents Kay From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Apr 7 11:01:34 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Apr 7 11:01:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dilithium! In-Reply-To: <01c401c778a1$2bcd2180$6b01a8c0@okapi> References: <45E7C086.7030401@jeannius.com><200703020810.l228AuhK024096@bubbleator.drizzle.com><4616A5EE.4020101@verizon.net><4616B9ED.1000508@verizon.net> <01c401c778a1$2bcd2180$6b01a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <003201c7793e$c91c0b20$6601a8c0@AxelHP> My face suddenly locked in a warp 10 smile... Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Gary Brown > Verzonden: zaterdag 7 april 2007 0:13 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Dilithium! > > Hey kids, > > Be the first on YOUR block to own some Genewine > > DILITHIUM CRYSTALS! > > Item No. 140105040342 on eBay. > > <> > > Gary Brown > Catspaw-Minerals > http://www.catspaw-minerals.com > Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Apr 7 12:07:29 2007 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Apr 7 12:07:23 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] University name change References: Message-ID: <005b01c77947$fd15ed20$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> At least your university has a geology department. A few years after I got my bachelors degree in geology from the University of Louisville, the department self-destructed. (None of the professors wanted to chair the department and many could get along with one-another.) Consequently if you want to take any advanced geology classes in Louisville, you pretty much have to go elsewhere. You can't even get a bachelors degree in geology at ANY university or college in the area with a metro population of just under 1 million! Name changes aren't as significant as losing a geology department! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Turner" To: Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 12:38 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] University name change > Just thought this was a bit stupid. I received my master's degree in > geology (geochemistry) from the University of Missouri-Rolla (Missouri > School of Mines) in 2003. The school is a very well known > geology/engineering school (ranked up there with the Colorado School of > Mines). Anyway, they just approved a name change for the university. It > will now be called the Missouri School of Science and Technology (Missouri > S&T). This is great, now what do I put on my resume? More importantly, > are they going to re-issue my degree now? One of my friends suggested > they add an "h" and "i" to the name as well to reflect the name change. > Apparently the school must be even more desparate for students that > originally thought. > > Andrew Turner > Victorville, CA USA > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Sat Apr 7 12:09:38 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Sat Apr 7 12:09:40 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dilithium! Message-ID: Bravely going where no man has gone before does have a certain allure, and using this crystal's power answered many questions about achieving warp speed. It couldn't be grown, so it had to be mined! Beam me up! Glenn From: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com Hey kids, Be the first on YOUR block to own some Genewine DILITHIUM CRYSTALS! Item No. 140105040342 on eBay. <> Gary Brown _________________________________________________________________ It?s tax season, make sure to follow these few simple tips http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Taxes/PreparationTips/PreparationTips.aspx?icid=WLMartagline --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Apr 7 12:50:59 2007 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Apr 7 12:51:04 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction In-Reply-To: <000f01c7721e$d8754d60$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <853656.24366.qm@web56308.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000f01c7721e$d8754d60$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: I was looking aroud the WWW.TRINITYMINERALS.COM site and found this reference to jonesite. Any place else and I would think it was a put on. Jonesite??? It loked like dandilion fluff on a rock. JN20 $300.00 Jonesite & Benitoite Small Cabinet Benitoite Gem Mine San Benito County, California December 9th Jonesite! I have put 13 new specimens of jonesite from the Benitoite Gem mine online. Jonesite is the rarest mineral from the Gem Mine. A couple of the new specimens have the rare benitoite association which was stated not to exist in the 1977 article by Gill et al in the Mineralogical Record on the Benitoite Mine. You won't find this many specimens of this rare mineral anywhere else! http://www.trinityminerals.com/cgi-bin/show/search.cgi Grant On 3/29/07, jaybates wrote: > JR > > The mine has been mined out commercially but there are still benitoites to > be found in the tailings. Just because commercial operations have shut down > doesn't mean there is nothing left. Benitoite is really only found viably in > one deposit, at the Benitoite Gem mine. It is extremely rare and a very > beautiful gemstone. You can also find specimens with benitoite, neptuneite > and jouquinite in natrulate matrix at the mine. I have attached a writeup I > did, you and others might enjoy. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: J. R. Hodel > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:11 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction > > > > Hi: > > > > I thought I had heard that Collector's Edge has mined out the deposit > where the benitoite was found - but I could be wrong, or that could be true > and folks are going to work through their tailings. Either way this is > interesting... > > > > But whichever - I'm a fan of science fiction, and the other day I picked > up a novel by Howard Hendrix, and in the first 3 pages, the "prelude" a > young boy and his older Uncle were in a shaft, searching for benitoite. > Uncle tells the youngster that benitoite is nearly the rarest gem stone, far > rarer than diamonds. As a result, there isn't an organized market (in the > formal economic sense) for benitoite like there is for diamonds. > > > > He goes on to say that the rarest gems are from meteorites...which gems > turn out to be the hook for the whole novel, named "Spears of God". I'm > only 20 or 30 pages into it, and meteorites appear to be important to > evolution and the plot and so forth. > > > > Off topic a little, but I was instantly interested. > > > > JR in WV > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Looking for earth-friendly autos? > > Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.20/736 - Release Date: 3/27/07 > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/msword > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From asgardsgc at earthlink.net Sat Apr 7 13:09:10 2007 From: asgardsgc at earthlink.net (Mark Easterbrook) Date: Sat Apr 7 13:09:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] University name change Message-ID: <380-2200746720910282@earthlink.net> The name change is a surprise to me, also. I graduated there in Geological Engineering in 1990 and have some fond memories. Of course, almost all the department professors I had classes with have since retired. Mark Easterbrook Charleston, SC > [Original Message] > From: Andrew Turner > To: > Date: 4/7/2007 12:38:46 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] University name change > > Just thought this was a bit stupid. I received my master's degree in > geology (geochemistry) from the University of Missouri-Rolla (Missouri > School of Mines) in 2003. The school is a very well known > geology/engineering school (ranked up there with the Colorado School of > Mines). Anyway, they just approved a name change for the university. It > will now be called the Missouri School of Science and Technology (Missouri > S&T). This is great, now what do I put on my resume? More importantly, are > they going to re-issue my degree now? One of my friends suggested they add > an "h" and "i" to the name as well to reflect the name change. Apparently > the school must be even more desparate for students that originally thought. > > Andrew Turner > Victorville, CA USA > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com Sat Apr 7 17:14:51 2007 From: dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com (Powell) Date: Sat Apr 7 17:14:34 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mineral Collector Signatures Message-ID: <00a801c77972$ede2e0d0$6501a8c0@Powell> Dear Mineral List, Happy spring ??? from much-too-cold upstate New York. I am hoping you all might be able to point me in the right direction. For an upcoming show, I'd like to put together a display with some specimens I have from former collections. With each, I'd like to have a signature of the collector. Would anyone know who might be able to provide an autograph/signature of George Letchworth English and David Wilber? My short list also includes Henry Ward and Ed Swoboda. If there is a signature collector out there that might want to trade/sell something, please contact me offlist (diamonddan@rochester.rr.com). Thanks, all. Always great to follow your various threads. Regarding Universities changing names, my alma mater (University of Rochester, Rochester, NY) is in the process of completely changing its logo. I guess this is all considered progress. Peace to all. Darryl Powell Manchester, NY --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From REBDONOHUE at aol.com Sun Apr 8 08:47:50 2007 From: REBDONOHUE at aol.com (REBDONOHUE@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 8 11:38:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite Message-ID: Hi There; I'm just a unassuming newcomer/beginner collector who tripped over an e-mail from Ap. 25, 2006 on red andesine. Most notable to me was the comment that every time Oregon sunstone was shipped for cutting a certain percentage would be "lost" from that shipment in the cutting and then suddenly andesine from undetermined overseas mines would hit the market. I wonder if it was ever proven by law that these shipments were obviously pirated? I'm about to buy a red andesine from Afghan. Ever heard of a mine there? I kinda doubt it myself. But it really looks like a good stone and the price is so right that I can't lose even if the stone is glass! So, I'm going to buy this. If you need me to do something with it let me know and I will. I read something in the article about forensics and trying to track down the origin of the mine the stone really came from, etc. What you can do to help me is lead me in the right direction to printed material to learn more about accurately learning to purchase stones for collection and profit. That would be wonderful! I also have this fantasy of hoping to learn the trade of stone setting someday. What a grand scheme..... Thanks so much, Rebekah Donohue ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Apr 8 11:44:48 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Apr 8 11:45:56 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Re: Andesine/Labradorite References: Message-ID: <002801c77a0e$01d22ab0$0300a8c0@Notebook> Note that Rebekah is not a list member so respond directly to her off-list. John Siebel Admin Team ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 8:47 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Apr 8 15:40:21 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 8 15:40:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Casting media? Off Topic? References: <374732.28262.qm@web56303.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46196F4B.2223@Tomaszewski.net> J. R. Hodel wrote: > > Hi: > > Alright, I'll bite, what's casting media, how does it get bubbles in it, how do you use a vacuum pump to get the bubble out, and why isn't it off topic on a rockhounding list? > > JR > JR, Casting is a big part of the lapidary arts. Beyond the obvious use in making many to most of the findings used in making jewelry, it is also used to make most lapidary equipment. Seems to be on topic to me. Kreigh From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Apr 8 16:02:57 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 8 16:02:55 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction References: <853656.24366.qm@web56308.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000f01c7721e$d8754d60$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <46197495.3079@Tomaszewski.net> Grant, I liked your description of dandelion fluff. I have a specimen of jonesite from Trinity Minerals. With a good lens you can see the crystal stucture and termination. Jonesite is a great rare micro. Kreigh Grant Johnston wrote: > > I was looking aroud the WWW.TRINITYMINERALS.COM site and found this > reference to jonesite. Any place else and I would think it was a put > on. Jonesite??? It loked like dandilion fluff on a rock. > > JN20 $300.00 > Jonesite & Benitoite > Small Cabinet > Benitoite Gem Mine > San Benito County, California > > December 9th > Jonesite! > I have put 13 new specimens of jonesite from the Benitoite Gem mine > online. Jonesite is the rarest mineral from the Gem Mine. A couple > of the new specimens have the rare benitoite association which was > stated not to exist in the 1977 article by Gill et al in the > Mineralogical Record on the Benitoite Mine. You won't find this many > specimens of this rare mineral anywhere else! > > http://www.trinityminerals.com/cgi-bin/show/search.cgi > > Grant > > On 3/29/07, jaybates wrote: > > JR > > > > The mine has been mined out commercially but there are still benitoites to > > be found in the tailings. Just because commercial operations have shut down > > doesn't mean there is nothing left. Benitoite is really only found viably in > > one deposit, at the Benitoite Gem mine. It is extremely rare and a very > > beautiful gemstone. You can also find specimens with benitoite, neptuneite > > and jouquinite in natrulate matrix at the mine. I have attached a writeup I > > did, you and others might enjoy. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: J. R. Hodel > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 3:11 AM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction > > > > > > > Hi: > > > > > > I thought I had heard that Collector's Edge has mined out the deposit > > where the benitoite was found - but I could be wrong, or that could be true > > and folks are going to work through their tailings. Either way this is > > interesting... > > > > > > But whichever - I'm a fan of science fiction, and the other day I picked > > up a novel by Howard Hendrix, and in the first 3 pages, the "prelude" a > > young boy and his older Uncle were in a shaft, searching for benitoite. > > Uncle tells the youngster that benitoite is nearly the rarest gem stone, far > > rarer than diamonds. As a result, there isn't an organized market (in the > > formal economic sense) for benitoite like there is for diamonds. > > > > > > He goes on to say that the rarest gems are from meteorites...which gems > > turn out to be the hook for the whole novel, named "Spears of God". I'm > > only 20 or 30 pages into it, and meteorites appear to be important to > > evolution and the plot and so forth. > > > > > > Off topic a little, but I was instantly interested. > > > > > > JR in WV From tim at orerockon.com Sun Apr 8 19:54:49 2007 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Apr 8 19:53:17 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200704090253.l392rFOK015133@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Let's see, first they are reported to originate in a mine in some remote part of western China, that "westerners" are not normally allowed to visit. The pictures posted to the net (now no longer available, of course) looked an awful lot like one of the sunstone mines near Plush, Oregon. The rough was identical to the best Plush blood red sunstone rough in size, shape, and color. Then, when people started asking the obvious questions, the Chinese website was taken down, and the andesine source was reported in Gems & Gemology as the Congo. After all, who would want to risk getting killed by rebels just to verify that red sunstone was coming from Africa? Now, it's Afghanistan. Care to book a flight? Got your military escort lined up? See a pattern here? Next it will be Iraq, or better yet Iran. How about Libya? The red sunstone rough is all from Plush, or (a remote possibility), the Ponderosa mine to the NE, and the rough that is routinely stolen by Chinese cutting houses is the most likely source. It's easy to confuse potential buyers and change the source by calling it andesine (and also technically correct, at least for some of the Plush stones). How can one "prove by law" that rough was stolen from a shipment to be cut? I would like to know how this could be accomplished, since more than a few friends had very nice, large AAA grade red and/or green stones sent to China and received a terrible yield (<30%) of small, A grade or worse cut stones in return. Great rough does not turn into so-so cut stones, even if the worst cutters in existence botch the job. Blood red color does not disappear when a stone is cut. I suppose you could babysit your rough all the way to China and back, but who is going to do that? They simply stopped doing business with Chinese cutters. Of course the rough is cheap. since it was free to the sellers. Bottom line: if it seems like too good a deal to be true, it probably isn't true. And really, why should a typical buyer care? Buy the stones, get them cut, and be done with it. Know that they were stolen from honest miners in the US, though. At 08:47 AM 4/8/2007, you wrote: >Hi There; > >I'm just a unassuming newcomer/beginner collector who tripped over an e-mail >from Ap. 25, 2006 on red andesine. Most notable to me was the comment that >every time Oregon sunstone was shipped for cutting a >certain percentage would >be "lost" from that shipment in the cutting and then suddenly andesine from >undetermined overseas mines would hit the market. I wonder if it was ever >proven by law that these shipments were obviously pirated? I'm >about to buy a >red andesine from Afghan. Ever heard of a mine there? I kinda doubt it >myself. But it really looks like a good stone and the price is so >right that I >can't lose even if the stone is glass! So, I'm going to buy this. If you >need me to do something with it let me know and I will. I read >something in the >article about forensics and trying to track down the origin of the mine the >stone really came from, etc. What you can do to help me is lead me in the >right direction to printed material to learn more about accurately >learning to >purchase stones for collection and profit. That would be wonderful! I also >have this fantasy of hoping to learn the trade of stone setting someday. >What a grand scheme..... > > >Thanks so much, >Rebekah Donohue > > > >************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Apr 8 20:13:49 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Apr 8 20:11:53 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: <200704090253.l392rFOK015133@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200704090253.l392rFOK015133@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <4619AF6D.8030704@verizon.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > How can > one "prove by law" that rough was stolen from a shipment to be cut? I > would like to know how this could be accomplished, Well it would require that some portion of the sample be analyzed by polarized light microscopy, electron microprobe, and mass spectrometry. You can get a pretty specific fingerprint for many minerals that way, and definitely for feldspars. Of course, that tells us the technical story, but doesn't tell us how we would go about prosecuting such a case across international boundaries. I find it a little ironic, though, that people were sending rough to be cut overseas in dubious countries in order to maximize their profit, and in turn they themselves have been hoodwinked. That doesn't make it fair, but if I may be a little self-righteous, that's the risk one takes when dealing on the dark side. Aren't there any reasonably priced cutters in the U.S.? Don From rfadney at hotmail.com Sun Apr 8 22:11:28 2007 From: rfadney at hotmail.com (R. Adney Jr.) Date: Sun Apr 8 22:11:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: <4619AF6D.8030704@verizon.net> Message-ID: If everyone quit sending the rough to China, and had it cut elsewhere, say set up cutting houses in the US. Possibly Mexico. You could even teach prisoners the cutting art, and give them a job when they get out! Maybe the Chinese would get the hint. Of course the cost would increased, but personally, at least with Oregon Sunstone, I would be willing to pay more for finished stones. Heck, ACN (Jewelry TV) wouldn't be able to bad mouth Oregon Stone if they had to admit they were selling it! I have some of all of the locales stones and I can't tell most of it from the real thing. That being what I've dug in Plush, or bought from the sunstone miners. The exception is the Schiller, none of the Chi-Niger- Congo stones I purchased have Schiller. Being an Oregon native, I kind of take this subject personally. Rich >From: DonH >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite >Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 20:13:49 -0700 > >Tim Fisher wrote: >> How can >>one "prove by law" that rough was stolen from a shipment to be cut? I >>would like to know how this could be accomplished, > > >Well it would require that some portion of the sample be analyzed by >polarized light microscopy, electron microprobe, and mass spectrometry. >You can get a pretty specific fingerprint for many minerals that way, and >definitely for feldspars. Of course, that tells us the technical story, >but doesn't tell us how we would go about prosecuting such a case across >international boundaries. > >I find it a little ironic, though, that people were sending rough to be cut >overseas in dubious countries in order to maximize their profit, and in >turn they themselves have been hoodwinked. That doesn't make it fair, but >if I may be a little self-righteous, that's the risk one takes when dealing >on the dark side. Aren't there any reasonably priced cutters in the U.S.? > > >Don > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3 From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Mon Apr 9 02:21:22 2007 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Mon Apr 9 02:21:15 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite References: Message-ID: <009601c77a88$70a019f0$c51f9444@michael01> that andesine is NOT from anywhere other than China. Not the Congo, not Nepal or Tibet. China. And it is heat treated...despite the interesting little fable they have woven about it, and claims it is natural in colour....it ain't. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "R. Adney Jr." To: Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite > If everyone quit sending the rough to China, and had it cut elsewhere, say > set up cutting houses in the US. Possibly Mexico. You could even teach > prisoners the cutting art, and give them a job when they get out! Maybe > the Chinese would get the hint. > > Of course the cost would increased, but personally, at least with Oregon > Sunstone, I would be willing to pay more for finished stones. Heck, ACN > (Jewelry TV) wouldn't be able to bad mouth Oregon Stone if they had to > admit they were selling it! > > I have some of all of the locales stones and I can't tell most of it from > the real thing. That being what I've dug in Plush, or bought from the > sunstone miners. The exception is the Schiller, none of the Chi-Niger- > Congo stones I purchased have Schiller. Being an Oregon native, I kind of > take this subject personally. > > Rich > > >>From: DonH >>Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite >>Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 20:13:49 -0700 >> >>Tim Fisher wrote: >>> How can >>>one "prove by law" that rough was stolen from a shipment to be cut? I >>>would like to know how this could be accomplished, >> >> >>Well it would require that some portion of the sample be analyzed by >>polarized light microscopy, electron microprobe, and mass spectrometry. >>You can get a pretty specific fingerprint for many minerals that way, and >>definitely for feldspars. Of course, that tells us the technical story, >>but doesn't tell us how we would go about prosecuting such a case across >>international boundaries. >> >>I find it a little ironic, though, that people were sending rough to be >>cut overseas in dubious countries in order to maximize their profit, and >>in turn they themselves have been hoodwinked. That doesn't make it fair, >>but if I may be a little self-righteous, that's the risk one takes when >>dealing on the dark side. Aren't there any reasonably priced cutters in >>the U.S.? >> >> >>Don >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. > http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag3 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jr50wv at yahoo.com Mon Apr 9 05:45:40 2007 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Mon Apr 9 05:45:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] old collection signatures Message-ID: <496379.49914.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Darryl: The Mineralogical Record is building an archive of labels from collectors of all types. I'll bet the collectors you're interested have entries in that archive, which I would expect to be available on line. Quite the historical resource - enjoy the spring yourself! We had everything going along swell, trees in bloom, flowers coming up, and then it snowed! I've had a stove burning all weekend... JR in WV --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From albalmer at att.net Mon Apr 9 08:38:47 2007 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Apr 9 08:38:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: <009601c77a88$70a019f0$c51f9444@michael01> References: <009601c77a88$70a019f0$c51f9444@michael01> Message-ID: <64nk13lh66hd3f0ipelao7rvc4knqde9ed@4ax.com> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:21:22 -0600, Michael Schmidt wrote: >that andesine is NOT from anywhere other than China. In view of the suspicions raised here, it's only fair to ask how you know that. > Not the Congo, not >Nepal or Tibet. China. And it is heat treated...despite the interesting >little fable they have woven about it, and claims it is natural in >colour....it ain't. What does heat treatment do for feldspars? What temperatures are used? I assume it's fairly low, because the melting point is low. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Mon Apr 9 08:55:44 2007 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (MICHAEL SCHMIDT) Date: Mon Apr 9 08:55:46 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: <64nk13lh66hd3f0ipelao7rvc4knqde9ed@4ax.com> References: <009601c77a88$70a019f0$c51f9444@michael01> <64nk13lh66hd3f0ipelao7rvc4knqde9ed@4ax.com> Message-ID: got it from a friend of a friend that was in China seeing the material being treated in bulk. not sure of the temp being used. when this material first came out, it was from the Congo. Then, it was from high up in the Himalayas in Nepal or Tibet or something (something around 14000 foot elevation or something like that...) saw pictures of the mining site, complete with lots of trees...odd how the trees grew several thousands of feet in elevation higher than the tree line.... it's marketing plain and simple ----- Original Message ----- From: Al Balmer Date: Monday, April 9, 2007 9:38 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite > On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:21:22 -0600, Michael Schmidt > wrote: > > >that andesine is NOT from anywhere other than China. > > In view of the suspicions raised here, it's only fair to ask how you > know that. > > > Not the Congo, not > >Nepal or Tibet. China. And it is heat treated...despite the > interesting > >little fable they have woven about it, and claims it is natural > in > >colour....it ain't. > > What does heat treatment do for feldspars? What temperatures are used? > I assume it's fairly low, because the melting point is low. > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From albalmer at att.net Mon Apr 9 09:02:30 2007 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Apr 9 09:02:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: References: <009601c77a88$70a019f0$c51f9444@michael01> <64nk13lh66hd3f0ipelao7rvc4knqde9ed@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:55:44 -0600, MICHAEL SCHMIDT wrote: >got it from a friend of a friend that was in China seeing the material being treated in bulk. not sure of the temp being used. But was it mined in China, or just treated there? > >when this material first came out, it was from the Congo. Then, it was from high up in the Himalayas in Nepal or Tibet or something (something around 14000 foot elevation or something like that...) saw pictures of the mining site, complete with lots of trees...odd how the trees grew several thousands of feet in elevation higher than the tree line.... > >it's marketing plain and simple > Yep. >----- Original Message ----- >From: Al Balmer >Date: Monday, April 9, 2007 9:38 am >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite > >> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:21:22 -0600, Michael Schmidt >> wrote: >> >> >that andesine is NOT from anywhere other than China. >> >> In view of the suspicions raised here, it's only fair to ask how you >> know that. >> >> > Not the Congo, not >> >Nepal or Tibet. China. And it is heat treated...despite the >> interesting >> >little fable they have woven about it, and claims it is natural >> in >> >colour....it ain't. >> >> What does heat treatment do for feldspars? What temperatures are used? >> I assume it's fairly low, because the melting point is low. >> -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From schiller at ridgenet.net Sun Apr 8 12:16:39 2007 From: schiller at ridgenet.net (schiller@ridgenet.net) Date: Mon Apr 9 10:18:48 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] GEAR FOR FRANTOM SAW In-Reply-To: <200704060100.l3610pVR030849@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200704060100.l3610pVR030849@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <4800.64.209.150.147.1176059799.squirrel@webmail.ridgenet.net> Tim, I assume that you are referring to the worm and worm gear that drives the feed screw on your saw. If so, the time requirements for the average machine shop to reproduce a single worm and worm gear would be so high that you could probably replace the saw for the price of machining a single set of gears. However, manufacturers use standard mechanical parts in their designs to minimize the cost of manufacturing. I am sure that Frantom did so as well. It is my understanding that Hyland Park bought out Frantom and that Diamond Pacific ultimately bought out Hyland Park. I also understand that Diamond Pacific does handle some parts for the old saws and, therefore, I would contact them first. In the event that Diamond Pacific cannot provide the parts you require, you can buy a standard worm and worm gear from Boston Gear. First you will have to determine the specs of the gear you are trying to replace. Your worm gear is probably made of bronze and your worm is probably made of steel. You need to know the diameter of your worm gear and the diameter of your worm. The ratio of a worm gear is determined by the number of teeth on the worm gear divided by the number of leads or threads on the worm. In your case, I am reasonably sure that you have a single thread worm. You can determine the number of leads on your worm by looking at the end to see how many threads begin on the end. This will be one, two, or four. Essentially, multiple lead threads are threads between threads of a longer pitch. You should also download a copy of Open gear theory from the Boston Gear website located at http://www.bostongear.com/products/open/theory.html (5.5 MB PDF). The chart in the worm gear section will let you know what?s available in the standard diameters and ratios. You can select the appropriate set of gears for your application by comparing diameter, ratio, and the material the gear is made from. Finally, I would suggest calling Boston Gear (Phone 888-999-9860) and talking to a technical representative for final verification of your selection. You will probably not be able to buy the hardware directly from Boston Gear but they will be more that happy to give you the name and address of a local supplier. In the worst case, you might have to take the new worm gear to a local machine shop to fit the inside diameter of the new gear to your shaft. This is a very simple procedure and will probably cost only the minimal charge if anything. I hope this information is helpful. Ron > Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 22:48:46 -0700 (PDT) > From: teresa jetter > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rocksaw > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Message-ID: <771495.77254.qm@web81714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hi, depending on the gear, would it be posible to take > it to a machine shop? I have used a machine shop for > various things, I dont' know how much they would > charge, but depending on the gear, they might be able > to duplicate it for you. > --- timothy meehan wrote: > >> trying to find a gear to fix my saw it is a >> sixteen frantom From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Mon Apr 9 12:02:25 2007 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (MICHAEL SCHMIDT) Date: Mon Apr 9 12:02:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: References: <009601c77a88$70a019f0$c51f9444@michael01> <64nk13lh66hd3f0ipelao7rvc4knqde9ed@4ax.com> Message-ID: mined and treated in china ----- Original Message ----- From: Al Balmer Date: Monday, April 9, 2007 10:02 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite > On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 09:55:44 -0600, MICHAEL SCHMIDT > wrote: > > >got it from a friend of a friend that was in China seeing the > material being treated in bulk. not sure of the temp being used. > > But was it mined in China, or just treated there? > > > >when this material first came out, it was from the Congo. Then, > it was from high up in the Himalayas in Nepal or Tibet or > something (something around 14000 foot elevation or something like > that...) saw pictures of the mining site, complete with lots of > trees...odd how the trees grew several thousands of feet in > elevation higher than the tree line.... > > > >it's marketing plain and simple > > > Yep. > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Al Balmer > >Date: Monday, April 9, 2007 9:38 am > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite > > > >> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 03:21:22 -0600, Michael Schmidt > >> wrote: > >> > >> >that andesine is NOT from anywhere other than China. > >> > >> In view of the suspicions raised here, it's only fair to ask > how you > >> know that. > >> > >> > Not the Congo, not > >> >Nepal or Tibet. China. And it is heat treated...despite the > >> interesting > >> >little fable they have woven about it, and claims it is > natural > >> in > >> >colour....it ain't. > >> > >> What does heat treatment do for feldspars? What temperatures > are used? > >> I assume it's fairly low, because the melting point is low. > >> > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From albalmer at att.net Mon Apr 9 13:35:48 2007 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Apr 9 13:35:52 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: References: <009601c77a88$70a019f0$c51f9444@michael01> <64nk13lh66hd3f0ipelao7rvc4knqde9ed@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:02:25 -0600, MICHAEL SCHMIDT wrote: >mined and treated in china I won't bother to ask again how you know ;-) I've been digging for information on the heat treatment of sunstone, and have found practically nothing, aside from statements to the effect that it's never done. In fact, an article in Colored Stone refers to "the fact that stones like garnet, peridot, and sunstone not only are unenhanced, but can't be improved with treatments". http://www.colored-stone.com/stories/may03/markets.cfm -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Mon Apr 9 13:51:53 2007 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (MICHAEL SCHMIDT) Date: Mon Apr 9 13:51:56 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: References: <009601c77a88$70a019f0$c51f9444@michael01> <64nk13lh66hd3f0ipelao7rvc4knqde9ed@4ax.com> Message-ID: I don't remember exactly who the info came from (I believe it is a very knowledgeable dealer in Hong Kong, a very good friend of a very good friend of mine- two people who very well know what they are talking about) and yes, for a great many of the feldspars out there- sunstone from Mexico for sure- treatments produce no effect/enhancements whatsoever. However, there is something about the chemistry of this particular material that enables it to benefit from very basic heat treatments ----- Original Message ----- From: Al Balmer Date: Monday, April 9, 2007 2:35 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite > On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:02:25 -0600, MICHAEL SCHMIDT > wrote: > > >mined and treated in china > > I won't bother to ask again how you know ;-) > > I've been digging for information on the heat treatment of sunstone, > and have found practically nothing, aside from statements to the > effect that it's never done. In fact, an article in Colored Stone > refers to "the fact that stones like garnet, peridot, and sunstone not > only are unenhanced, but can't be improved with treatments". > http://www.colored-stone.com/stories/may03/markets.cfm > > -- > Al Balmer > Sun City, AZ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From territoones1 at ameritech.net Mon Apr 9 17:01:24 2007 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Mon Apr 9 17:01:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: <200704090253.l392rFOK015133@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <403030.66183.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Question...... I have been going around the united States rock digging,faceting, and cabbing stones for awhile now. I have seen on the travel channel about the Oregon sunstone mines, and I have wanted to go there and do some digging. Is is worth the trip? Has anyone else on this list made the trip? I know that it is a gamble, but what I saw from the travel channel is the price tag on a good cut red stone. the Schillers are very pretty as well, and would make a nice bracelet or ear rings. I just want some feedback from the listers. Thanks Tj --- Tim Fisher wrote: > Let's see, first they are reported to originate in a > mine in some > remote part of western China, that "westerners" are > not normally > allowed to visit. The pictures posted to the net > (now no longer > available, of course) looked an awful lot like one > of the sunstone > mines near Plush, Oregon. The rough was identical to > the best Plush > blood red sunstone rough in size, shape, and color. > Then, when people > started asking the obvious questions, the Chinese > website was taken > down, and the andesine source was reported in Gems & > Gemology as the > Congo. After all, who would want to risk getting > killed by rebels > just to verify that red sunstone was coming from > Africa? Now, it's > Afghanistan. Care to book a flight? Got your > military escort lined > up? See a pattern here? Next it will be Iraq, or > better yet Iran. How > about Libya? > > The red sunstone rough is all from Plush, or (a > remote possibility), > the Ponderosa mine to the NE, and the rough that is > routinely stolen > by Chinese cutting houses is the most likely source. > It's easy to > confuse potential buyers and change the source by > calling it andesine > (and also technically correct, at least for some of > the Plush > stones). How can one "prove by law" that rough was > stolen from a > shipment to be cut? I would like to know how this > could be > accomplished, since more than a few friends had very > nice, large AAA > grade red and/or green stones sent to China and > received a terrible > yield (<30%) of small, A grade or worse cut stones > in return. Great > rough does not turn into so-so cut stones, even if > the worst cutters > in existence botch the job. Blood red color does not > disappear when a > stone is cut. I suppose you could babysit your rough > all the way to > China and back, but who is going to do that? They > simply stopped > doing business with Chinese cutters. > > Of course the rough is cheap. since it was free to > the sellers. > Bottom line: if it seems like too good a deal to be > true, it probably > isn't true. And really, why should a typical buyer > care? Buy the > stones, get them cut, and be done with it. Know that > they were stolen > from honest miners in the US, though. > > At 08:47 AM 4/8/2007, you wrote: > >Hi There; > > > >I'm just a unassuming newcomer/beginner collector > who tripped over an e-mail > >from Ap. 25, 2006 on red andesine. Most notable to > me was the comment that > >every time Oregon sunstone was shipped for cutting > a > >certain percentage would > >be "lost" from that shipment in the cutting and > then suddenly andesine from > >undetermined overseas mines would hit the market. > I wonder if it was ever > >proven by law that these shipments were obviously > pirated? I'm > >about to buy a > >red andesine from Afghan. Ever heard of a mine > there? I kinda doubt it > >myself. But it really looks like a good stone and > the price is so > >right that I > >can't lose even if the stone is glass! So, I'm > going to buy this. If you > >need me to do something with it let me know and I > will. I read > >something in the > >article about forensics and trying to track down > the origin of the mine the > >stone really came from, etc. What you can do to > help me is lead me in the > >right direction to printed material to learn more > about accurately > >learning to > >purchase stones for collection and profit. That > would be wonderful! I also > >have this fantasy of hoping to learn the trade of > stone setting someday. > >What a grand scheme..... > > > > > >Thanks so much, > >Rebekah Donohue > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's > free at http://www.aol.com. > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > >--- > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jaybates at rcn.com Mon Apr 9 17:33:36 2007 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Mon Apr 9 17:30:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite References: <403030.66183.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501c77b07$e6d2a320$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Absolutely worthwhile. You can expect to find valuable sunstones at both Spectrum and Dustdevil. Maybe not a $5000 stone, but at least enough to make a bacelet or ear rings. These are not salted mines for the tourists, but the real deal and valuable stones have been and continue to be found at the Oregon mines. Expect to work for your stones. They are not going to hand them to you on a platter. Try a belt run to assure yourself of good stones. I have been going to the Sunstone mines for at least the last four or five years. ----- Original Message ----- From: teresa jetter To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite > Question...... > I have been going around the united States rock > digging,faceting, and cabbing stones for awhile now. > I have seen on the travel channel about the Oregon > sunstone mines, and I have wanted to go there and do > some digging. > Is is worth the trip? Has anyone else on this list > made the trip? I know that it is a gamble, but what I > saw from the travel channel is the price tag on a good > cut red stone. the Schillers are very pretty as well, > and would make a nice bracelet or ear rings. > I just want some feedback from the listers. > Thanks > Tj > --- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > Let's see, first they are reported to originate in a > > mine in some > > remote part of western China, that "westerners" are > > not normally > > allowed to visit. The pictures posted to the net > > (now no longer > > available, of course) looked an awful lot like one > > of the sunstone > > mines near Plush, Oregon. The rough was identical to > > the best Plush > > blood red sunstone rough in size, shape, and color. > > Then, when people > > started asking the obvious questions, the Chinese > > website was taken > > down, and the andesine source was reported in Gems & > > Gemology as the > > Congo. After all, who would want to risk getting > > killed by rebels > > just to verify that red sunstone was coming from > > Africa? Now, it's > > Afghanistan. Care to book a flight? Got your > > military escort lined > > up? See a pattern here? Next it will be Iraq, or > > better yet Iran. How > > about Libya? > > > > The red sunstone rough is all from Plush, or (a > > remote possibility), > > the Ponderosa mine to the NE, and the rough that is > > routinely stolen > > by Chinese cutting houses is the most likely source. > > It's easy to > > confuse potential buyers and change the source by > > calling it andesine > > (and also technically correct, at least for some of > > the Plush > > stones). How can one "prove by law" that rough was > > stolen from a > > shipment to be cut? I would like to know how this > > could be > > accomplished, since more than a few friends had very > > nice, large AAA > > grade red and/or green stones sent to China and > > received a terrible > > yield (<30%) of small, A grade or worse cut stones > > in return. Great > > rough does not turn into so-so cut stones, even if > > the worst cutters > > in existence botch the job. Blood red color does not > > disappear when a > > stone is cut. I suppose you could babysit your rough > > all the way to > > China and back, but who is going to do that? They > > simply stopped > > doing business with Chinese cutters. > > > > Of course the rough is cheap. since it was free to > > the sellers. > > Bottom line: if it seems like too good a deal to be > > true, it probably > > isn't true. And really, why should a typical buyer > > care? Buy the > > stones, get them cut, and be done with it. Know that > > they were stolen > > from honest miners in the US, though. > > > > At 08:47 AM 4/8/2007, you wrote: > > >Hi There; > > > > > >I'm just a unassuming newcomer/beginner collector > > who tripped over an e-mail > > >from Ap. 25, 2006 on red andesine. Most notable to > > me was the comment that > > >every time Oregon sunstone was shipped for cutting > > a > > >certain percentage would > > >be "lost" from that shipment in the cutting and > > then suddenly andesine from > > >undetermined overseas mines would hit the market. > > I wonder if it was ever > > >proven by law that these shipments were obviously > > pirated? I'm > > >about to buy a > > >red andesine from Afghan. Ever heard of a mine > > there? I kinda doubt it > > >myself. But it really looks like a good stone and > > the price is so > > >right that I > > >can't lose even if the stone is glass! So, I'm > > going to buy this. If you > > >need me to do something with it let me know and I > > will. I read > > >something in the > > >article about forensics and trying to track down > > the origin of the mine the > > >stone really came from, etc. What you can do to > > help me is lead me in the > > >right direction to printed material to learn more > > about accurately > > >learning to > > >purchase stones for collection and profit. That > > would be wonderful! I also > > >have this fantasy of hoping to learn the trade of > > stone setting someday. > > >What a grand scheme..... > > > > > > > > >Thanks so much, > > >Rebekah Donohue > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************** See what's > > free at http://www.aol.com. > > > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > >multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > >--- > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > >Subscription Services: > > > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > > Policy: > > > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > > Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/750 - Release Date: 4/6/07 9:30 PM > > From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Apr 9 18:56:52 2007 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Apr 9 18:56:57 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction In-Reply-To: <46197495.3079@Tomaszewski.net> References: <853656.24366.qm@web56308.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000f01c7721e$d8754d60$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <46197495.3079@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: On 4/8/07, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Grant, > > I liked your description of dandelion fluff. I have a specimen of > jonesite from Trinity Minerals. With a good lens you can see the crystal > stucture and termination. Jonesite is a great rare micro. It was not real exciting looking, not like those giant gypsum Crystal in the Cave of Swords in Mexico. However, if Jonesite is the rarest mineral from the Gem Mine and is not supposed to exist in association with benitoite then those specimens have a different type of excitement. And giving it such a common name -- Jonesite --is kind of an oxymoron. Unfortunatly, it's to small and expensive to interest me. Grant From kcbaran at arczip.com Mon Apr 9 19:27:26 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Mon Apr 9 19:29:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: <403030.66183.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <403030.66183.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <461AF60E.3080509@arczip.com> Is it worth the trip? Where are you coming from? I live in Washington and from I have read about the place, it is well worth the trip(for me) but I don't know about you. Chuck teresa jetter wrote: >Question...... >I have been going around the united States rock >digging,faceting, and cabbing stones for awhile now. >I have seen on the travel channel about the Oregon >sunstone mines, and I have wanted to go there and do >some digging. >Is is worth the trip? Has anyone else on this list >made the trip? I know that it is a gamble, but what I >saw from the travel channel is the price tag on a good >cut red stone. the Schillers are very pretty as well, >and would make a nice bracelet or ear rings. >I just want some feedback from the listers. >Thanks >Tj >--- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > >>Let's see, first they are reported to originate in a >>mine in some >>remote part of western China, that "westerners" are >>not normally >>allowed to visit. The pictures posted to the net >>(now no longer >>available, of course) looked an awful lot like one >>of the sunstone >>mines near Plush, Oregon. The rough was identical to >>the best Plush >>blood red sunstone rough in size, shape, and color. >>Then, when people >>started asking the obvious questions, the Chinese >>website was taken >>down, and the andesine source was reported in Gems & >>Gemology as the >>Congo. After all, who would want to risk getting >>killed by rebels >>just to verify that red sunstone was coming from >>Africa? Now, it's >>Afghanistan. Care to book a flight? Got your >>military escort lined >>up? See a pattern here? Next it will be Iraq, or >>better yet Iran. How >>about Libya? >> >>The red sunstone rough is all from Plush, or (a >>remote possibility), >>the Ponderosa mine to the NE, and the rough that is >>routinely stolen >>by Chinese cutting houses is the most likely source. >>It's easy to >>confuse potential buyers and change the source by >>calling it andesine >>(and also technically correct, at least for some of >>the Plush >>stones). How can one "prove by law" that rough was >>stolen from a >>shipment to be cut? I would like to know how this >>could be >>accomplished, since more than a few friends had very >>nice, large AAA >>grade red and/or green stones sent to China and >>received a terrible >>yield (<30%) of small, A grade or worse cut stones >>in return. Great >>rough does not turn into so-so cut stones, even if >>the worst cutters >>in existence botch the job. Blood red color does not >>disappear when a >>stone is cut. I suppose you could babysit your rough >>all the way to >>China and back, but who is going to do that? They >>simply stopped >>doing business with Chinese cutters. >> >>Of course the rough is cheap. since it was free to >>the sellers. >>Bottom line: if it seems like too good a deal to be >>true, it probably >>isn't true. And really, why should a typical buyer >>care? Buy the >>stones, get them cut, and be done with it. Know that >>they were stolen >>from honest miners in the US, though. >> >>At 08:47 AM 4/8/2007, you wrote: >> >> >>>Hi There; >>> >>>I'm just a unassuming newcomer/beginner collector >>> >>> >>who tripped over an e-mail >>>from Ap. 25, 2006 on red andesine. Most notable to >>me was the comment that >> >> >>>every time Oregon sunstone was shipped for cutting >>> >>> >>a >> >> >>>certain percentage would >>>be "lost" from that shipment in the cutting and >>> >>> >>then suddenly andesine from >> >> >>>undetermined overseas mines would hit the market. >>> >>> >>I wonder if it was ever >> >> >>>proven by law that these shipments were obviously >>> >>> >>pirated? I'm >> >> >>>about to buy a >>>red andesine from Afghan. Ever heard of a mine >>> >>> >>there? I kinda doubt it >> >> >>>myself. But it really looks like a good stone and >>> >>> >>the price is so >> >> >>>right that I >>>can't lose even if the stone is glass! So, I'm >>> >>> >>going to buy this. If you >> >> >>>need me to do something with it let me know and I >>> >>> >>will. I read >> >> >>>something in the >>>article about forensics and trying to track down >>> >>> >>the origin of the mine the >> >> >>>stone really came from, etc. What you can do to >>> >>> >>help me is lead me in the >> >> >>>right direction to printed material to learn more >>> >>> >>about accurately >> >> >>>learning to >>>purchase stones for collection and profit. That >>> >>> >>would be wonderful! I also >> >> >>>have this fantasy of hoping to learn the trade of >>> >>> >>stone setting someday. >> >> >>>What a grand scheme..... >>> >>> >>>Thanks so much, >>>Rebekah Donohue >>> >>> >>> >>>************************************** See what's >>> >>> >>free at http://www.aol.com. >> >> >>>--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>>multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>>--- >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>Subscription Services: >>> >>> >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> >> >>>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage >>> >>> >>Policy: >> >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >>Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com >>Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage >>Policy: >> >> >> >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Mon Apr 9 20:31:06 2007 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Apr 9 20:29:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: <403030.66183.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200704090253.l392rFOK015133@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <403030.66183.qm@web81711.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200704100329.l3A3TV5U018165@bubbleator.drizzle.com> It is or it isn't worth it, depending on what you are after. For me, right now, it isn't. The blood reds are gone for now as the mines became so popular that the high grade stone bearing areas were dug until they threatened to reach the next county. This summer, they will be mobbed (or not, who knows). If you want OK (some say A but I say bah humbug, those are B grade stones) red/green and nice Schiller stones, it is probably worth it for you. If you got spoiled by loads of cheap AAA grade blood red stones in the mid-to-late 1990s, you will probably come away disappointed. And take those prices with several pounds of salt. Cut stones are worth only what someone pays you for them, no more, no less. I know of no one who has actually sold a faceted AAA grade red sunstone for $500/carat. It might actually happen at Tiffany's in New Yawk City, who knows, but it doesn't happen on the net or at any shows that I attend. Expect to pull in upwards of $50/ct. for faceted 5-10 ct. AAA reds and you won't be let down. Of course if you are paying $5.00/ct. for stones you dig that's a good price by any standards. Oh yeah, and that is if you can even find AA or AAA grade stones at the mines anymore. I didn't see any at all coming out of either fee dig mine during the time I was there last summer (I didn't even break out my BoscHammer) and didn't see any a few years ago that weren't "samples" or "found on the ground just the other day" by mine owners. At 05:01 PM 4/9/2007, you wrote: >Question...... >I have been going around the united States rock >digging,faceting, and cabbing stones for awhile now. >I have seen on the travel channel about the Oregon >sunstone mines, and I have wanted to go there and do >some digging. >Is is worth the trip? Has anyone else on this list >made the trip? I know that it is a gamble, but what I >saw from the travel channel is the price tag on a good >cut red stone. the Schillers are very pretty as well, >and would make a nice bracelet or ear rings. >I just want some feedback from the listers. >Thanks >Tj Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From jaybates at rcn.com Mon Apr 9 23:31:04 2007 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Mon Apr 9 23:27:56 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction References: <853656.24366.qm@web56308.mail.re3.yahoo.com><000f01c7721e$d8754d60$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com><46197495.3079@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001001c77b39$d0c0d840$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Actually I think it was named after Bob Jones the editor of Rock and Gem who I think may have found it first.. ----- Original Message ----- From: Grant Johnston To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction > On 4/8/07, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Grant, > > > > I liked your description of dandelion fluff. I have a specimen of > > jonesite from Trinity Minerals. With a good lens you can see the crystal > > stucture and termination. Jonesite is a great rare micro. > > It was not real exciting looking, not like those giant gypsum Crystal > in the Cave of Swords in Mexico. However, if Jonesite is the rarest > mineral from the Gem Mine and is not supposed to exist in association > with benitoite then those specimens have a different type of > excitement. > > And giving it such a common name -- Jonesite --is kind of an oxymoron. > Unfortunatly, it's to small and expensive to interest me. > > Grant > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/750 - Release Date: 4/6/07 9:30 PM > > From rockcurrier at cs.com Tue Apr 10 00:40:04 2007 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Tue Apr 10 00:39:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon Sunstone References: <200704100102.l3A12CdV005353@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001d01c77b43$75e5d3d0$6801a8c0@rock6> If a way to treat Oregon sunstone to make it a nice color has been found, it is highly unlikely that the people who have learned how to do it are going to be blabbing about it on the internet. They will be looking hard for any way they can to keep the knowledge of their treatment method as secret as hidden as possible. In addition they would be looking very hard for sources of rough that they could treat and cut so as to maximise their profit. This is the way the world works and has worked for all of recorded human history. If such a method exists it is likely that fee digging at their claims would come to a screatching halt. It would not make good echnomic sense to sit around while tens of thousands of dollars worth of gems went into the pockets the fee diggers. It would make better sense to find out who is treating and cutting the stones and work a deal with them so both parties could do well. If they have not already been approached by such persons I would think that might be good evidence that there is no treatment to make the stones a better color. As for all the Chinese cutters ripping them off that sounds pretty silly. There are hundreds of cutters that would be glad to have the work of cutting their rough and probably some of these cutters would not cheat them. If not China, then India or Thialand. I have been through the mill on various kinds of gem rough and have always been able to find a reliable cutter. One way to minimise the risk is to give the cutter some average material and see what he does with it. You would certainly not want to send a cutter with no track record good material to cut till he proved himself. For really good material you get it cut locally till you are sure of your bulk cutter(s). You can also, with minimum labor preform the stones yourself. That way you can keep track of the number of stone and keep a closer tab on the weight of rough to cut stone ratio. Rock From rocknate at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 04:10:18 2007 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Tue Apr 10 04:10:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction In-Reply-To: <001001c77b39$d0c0d840$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <853656.24366.qm@web56308.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000f01c7721e$d8754d60$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <46197495.3079@Tomaszewski.net> <001001c77b39$d0c0d840$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: Jay, Your information is incorrect. The real story is well documented in Min. Record volume 8, number 6, pp.453-456, and it has always fascinated me. I recommend the entire issue to anyone interested in the minerals of San Benito County, CA. I'll repeat a bit of it here. As many of you know, the benitoite, neptunite and joaquinite often require acid etching to expose them from the natrolite-filled veins. Now to quote from MR: "In 1957 Francis T. Jones found in the acid baths single blades or small clusters of a mineral not previously recognized from the mine. The amount of material was sufficient to determine that it was a new mineral but insufficient to fully characterize it for description. The renewed mining activity by W.C. Forrest and Elvis Gray uncovered a huge block of the veined blue-schist in 1970, from which many superb specimens of neptunite have been recovered. On a few of these specimens numerous rosettes of the new mineral were exposed by the acid treatment. This paper describes this new mineral, for which the name jonesite is proposed in recognition of the discovery and early work by Francis T. Jones of Berkeley, California." Bob Jones has many well-deserved honors, but jonesite is not one of them. My admiration goes to Francis Jones who had the inquisitiveness to wonder about some tiny crystals found in the bottom of an acid bath! About 8 to 10 years ago, in preparation for a collecting trip to the area I bought a number of specimens from Mineralogical Research Co. just so I could see what they looked like One of them was a specimen of containing several clusters of jonesite. I doubt that I paid more than $10 for it. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 4/10/07, jaybates wrote: > > Actually I think it was named after Bob Jones the editor of Rock and Gem > who > I think may have found it first.. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Grant Johnston > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction > > > > On 4/8/07, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > Grant, > > > > > > I liked your description of dandelion fluff. I have a specimen of > > > jonesite from Trinity Minerals. With a good lens you can see the > crystal > > > stucture and termination. Jonesite is a great rare micro. > > > > It was not real exciting looking, not like those giant gypsum Crystal > > in the Cave of Swords in Mexico. However, if Jonesite is the rarest > > mineral from the Gem Mine and is not supposed to exist in association > > with benitoite then those specimens have a different type of > > excitement. > > > > And giving it such a common name -- Jonesite --is kind of an oxymoron. > > Unfortunatly, it's to small and expensive to interest me. > > > > Grant > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/750 - Release Date: 4/6/07 > 9:30 PM > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tim at orerockon.com Tue Apr 10 05:14:44 2007 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 10 05:13:13 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon Sunstone In-Reply-To: <001d01c77b43$75e5d3d0$6801a8c0@rock6> References: <200704100102.l3A12CdV005353@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <001d01c77b43$75e5d3d0$6801a8c0@rock6> Message-ID: <200704101213.l3ACDBqc029340@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I disagree. S**t happens, especially with Chinese cutting houses. Parcels of large high grade rough do not yield 30% by weight of low grade faceted stones. Period. My friends and the Dust Devil mine owners were ripped off. They learned their lesson and chose another cutter in another country. Maybe they were too trusting, who knows. I reported what I witnessed. I guess you have been out of the loop for a while. As for the heat treating, I have my pet theories, which shall go unvoiced. What makes sense to you does not always make sense to miners. Cash from fee diggers is immediately available to repair equipment and buy diesel and groceries. Promises from overseas operations are just another expense until the "treated" rough is sold at Tuscon next January or whenever. You can't keep a mine operating on promises. These miners are not big businesses, they do not have corporate lines of credit, they have real jobs during the winter and real families to support just like the rest of us. If heat treating works on Oregon rough, only those miners who choose to or are able to carry the expenses will get their stones treated. For now, at least four mines allow fee/share digging and my guess is that number will double by the end of this season. With or without heat treating. At 12:40 AM 4/10/2007, you wrote: >As for all the Chinese cutters ripping them off that sounds pretty silly. >There are hundreds of cutters that would be glad to have the work of cutting >their rough and probably some of these cutters would not cheat them. If not >China, then India or Thialand. I have been through the mill on various kinds >of gem rough and have always been able to find a reliable cutter. One way to >minimise the risk is to give the cutter some average material and see what >he does with it. You would certainly not want to send a cutter with no track >record good material to cut till he proved himself. For really good material >you get it cut locally till you are sure of your bulk cutter(s). You can >also, with minimum labor preform the stones yourself. That way you can keep >track of the number of stone and keep a closer tab on the weight of rough to >cut stone ratio. >Rock Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From bg at his.com Tue Apr 10 07:37:05 2007 From: bg at his.com (Catherine Gaber) Date: Tue Apr 10 07:37:30 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction In-Reply-To: <001001c77b39$d0c0d840$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> References: <853656.24366.qm@web56308.mail.re3.yahoo.com><000f01c7721e$d8754d60$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com><46197495.3079@Tomaszewski.net> <001001c77b39$d0c0d840$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: mineral fiction. i don't know who jonesite was named after, but bobjonesite is named after bob jones. cathy On Apr 10, 2007, at 2:31 AM, jaybates wrote: > Actually I think it was named after Bob Jones the editor of Rock and > Gem who > I think may have found it first.. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Grant Johnston > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction > > >> On 4/8/07, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >>> Grant, >>> >>> I liked your description of dandelion fluff. I have a specimen of >>> jonesite from Trinity Minerals. With a good lens you can see the >>> crystal >>> stucture and termination. Jonesite is a great rare micro. >> >> It was not real exciting looking, not like those giant gypsum Crystal >> in the Cave of Swords in Mexico. However, if Jonesite is the rarest >> mineral from the Gem Mine and is not supposed to exist in association >> with benitoite then those specimens have a different type of >> excitement. >> >> And giving it such a common name -- Jonesite --is kind of an oxymoron. >> Unfortunatly, it's to small and expensive to interest me. >> >> Grant >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/750 - Release Date: >> 4/6/07 > 9:30 PM >> >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Apr 10 07:40:30 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Apr 10 07:38:40 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction In-Reply-To: References: <853656.24366.qm@web56308.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000f01c7721e$d8754d60$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> <46197495.3079@Tomaszewski.net> <001001c77b39$d0c0d840$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <461BA1DE.1040802@verizon.net> Nathan Martin wrote: > Bob Jones has many well-deserved honors, but jonesite is not one of them. Indeed, but I believe bobjonesite is. http://webmineral.com/data/Bobjonesite.shtml Don From jaybates at rcn.com Tue Apr 10 08:10:36 2007 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Tue Apr 10 08:08:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction References: <853656.24366.qm@web56308.mail.re3.yahoo.com><000f01c7721e$d8754d60$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com><46197495.3079@Tomaszewski.net><001001c77b39$d0c0d840$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <001e01c77b82$77f29520$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> My memory failed me. Actually the stories behind the names are sometimes more interesting than the minerals themselves. ----- Original Message ----- From: Nathan Martin To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 4:10 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction > Jay, > Your information is incorrect. The real story is well documented in Min. > Record volume 8, number 6, pp.453-456, and it has always fascinated me. I > recommend the entire issue to anyone interested in the minerals of San > Benito County, CA. I'll repeat a bit of it here. > As many of you know, the benitoite, neptunite and joaquinite often require > acid etching to expose them from the natrolite-filled veins. Now to quote > from MR: > > "In 1957 Francis T. Jones found in the acid baths single blades or small > clusters of a mineral not previously recognized from the mine. The amount > of material was sufficient to determine that it was a new mineral but > insufficient to fully characterize it for description. The renewed mining > activity by W.C. Forrest and Elvis Gray uncovered a huge block of the veined > blue-schist in 1970, from which many superb specimens of neptunite have been > recovered. On a few of these specimens numerous rosettes of the new mineral > were exposed by the acid treatment. This paper describes this new mineral, > for which the name jonesite is proposed in recognition of the discovery and > early work by Francis T. Jones of Berkeley, California." > > Bob Jones has many well-deserved honors, but jonesite is not one of them. > My admiration goes to Francis Jones who had the inquisitiveness to wonder > about some tiny crystals found in the bottom of an acid bath! > > About 8 to 10 years ago, in preparation for a collecting trip to the area I > bought a number of specimens from Mineralogical Research Co. just so I could > see what they looked like One of them was a specimen of containing several > clusters of jonesite. I doubt that I paid more than $10 for it. > > best regards, > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > On 4/10/07, jaybates wrote: > > > > Actually I think it was named after Bob Jones the editor of Rock and Gem > > who > > I think may have found it first.. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Grant Johnston > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 6:56 PM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Benotite Gem Mine - and mineral fiction > > > > > > > On 4/8/07, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > Grant, > > > > > > > > I liked your description of dandelion fluff. I have a specimen of > > > > jonesite from Trinity Minerals. With a good lens you can see the > > crystal > > > > stucture and termination. Jonesite is a great rare micro. > > > > > > It was not real exciting looking, not like those giant gypsum Crystal > > > in the Cave of Swords in Mexico. However, if Jonesite is the rarest > > > mineral from the Gem Mine and is not supposed to exist in association > > > with benitoite then those specimens have a different type of > > > excitement. > > > > > > And giving it such a common name -- Jonesite --is kind of an oxymoron. > > > Unfortunatly, it's to small and expensive to interest me. > > > > > > Grant > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/750 - Release Date: 4/6/07 > > 9:30 PM > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/750 - Release Date: 4/6/07 9:30 PM > > From territoones1 at ameritech.net Tue Apr 10 09:30:16 2007 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Tue Apr 10 09:30:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: <200704100329.l3A3TV5U018165@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <301638.79855.qm@web81715.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thank you. If it should happen, then it would just be another trip out west sometime, but to do other things. TJ --- Tim Fisher wrote: > It is or it isn't worth it, depending on what you > are after. For me, > right now, it isn't. The blood reds are gone for now > as the mines > became so popular that the high grade stone bearing > areas were dug > until they threatened to reach the next county. This > summer, they > will be mobbed (or not, who knows). If you want OK > (some say A but I > say bah humbug, those are B grade stones) red/green > and nice Schiller > stones, it is probably worth it for you. If you got > spoiled by loads > of cheap AAA grade blood red stones in the > mid-to-late 1990s, you > will probably come away disappointed. And take those > prices with > several pounds of salt. Cut stones are worth only > what someone pays > you for them, no more, no less. I know of no one who > has actually > sold a faceted AAA grade red sunstone for > $500/carat. It might > actually happen at Tiffany's in New Yawk City, who > knows, but it > doesn't happen on the net or at any shows that I > attend. Expect to > pull in upwards of $50/ct. for faceted 5-10 ct. AAA > reds and you > won't be let down. Of course if you are paying > $5.00/ct. for stones > you dig that's a good price by any standards. Oh > yeah, and that is if > you can even find AA or AAA grade stones at the > mines anymore. I > didn't see any at all coming out of either fee dig > mine during the > time I was there last summer (I didn't even break > out my BoscHammer) > and didn't see any a few years ago that weren't > "samples" or "found > on the ground just the other day" by mine owners. > > At 05:01 PM 4/9/2007, you wrote: > >Question...... > >I have been going around the united States rock > >digging,faceting, and cabbing stones for awhile > now. > >I have seen on the travel channel about the Oregon > >sunstone mines, and I have wanted to go there and > do > >some digging. > >Is is worth the trip? Has anyone else on this list > >made the trip? I know that it is a gamble, but > what I > >saw from the travel channel is the price tag on a > good > >cut red stone. the Schillers are very pretty as > well, > >and would make a nice bracelet or ear rings. > >I just want some feedback from the listers. > >Thanks > >Tj > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com > Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From territoones1 at ameritech.net Tue Apr 10 09:33:37 2007 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Tue Apr 10 09:33:41 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: <000501c77b07$e6d2a320$6501a8c0@cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: <918475.8403.qm@web81710.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks for that. I have gotten many replys with many opinions. Rock digging is just that, and I may have to be there a week to find something good, or an afternoon, no one know! I just love to dig in the dirt!! T.J. --- jaybates wrote: > Absolutely worthwhile. You can expect to find > valuable sunstones at both > Spectrum and Dustdevil. Maybe not a $5000 stone, but > at least enough to make > a bacelet or ear rings. These are not salted mines > for the tourists, but the > real deal and valuable stones have been and continue > to be found at the > Oregon mines. Expect to work for your stones. They > are not going to hand > them to you on a platter. Try a belt run to assure > yourself of good stones. > I have been going to the Sunstone mines for at least > the last four or five > years. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: teresa jetter > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock > and gem collectors > > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 5:01 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite > > > > Question...... > > I have been going around the united States rock > > digging,faceting, and cabbing stones for awhile > now. > > I have seen on the travel channel about the Oregon > > sunstone mines, and I have wanted to go there and > do > > some digging. > > Is is worth the trip? Has anyone else on this > list > > made the trip? I know that it is a gamble, but > what I > > saw from the travel channel is the price tag on a > good > > cut red stone. the Schillers are very pretty as > well, > > and would make a nice bracelet or ear rings. > > I just want some feedback from the listers. > > Thanks > > Tj > > --- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > > > Let's see, first they are reported to originate > in a > > > mine in some > > > remote part of western China, that "westerners" > are > > > not normally > > > allowed to visit. The pictures posted to the net > > > (now no longer > > > available, of course) looked an awful lot like > one > > > of the sunstone > > > mines near Plush, Oregon. The rough was > identical to > > > the best Plush > > > blood red sunstone rough in size, shape, and > color. > > > Then, when people > > > started asking the obvious questions, the > Chinese > > > website was taken > > > down, and the andesine source was reported in > Gems & > > > Gemology as the > > > Congo. After all, who would want to risk getting > > > killed by rebels > > > just to verify that red sunstone was coming from > > > Africa? Now, it's > > > Afghanistan. Care to book a flight? Got your > > > military escort lined > > > up? See a pattern here? Next it will be Iraq, or > > > better yet Iran. How > > > about Libya? > > > > > > The red sunstone rough is all from Plush, or (a > > > remote possibility), > > > the Ponderosa mine to the NE, and the rough that > is > > > routinely stolen > > > by Chinese cutting houses is the most likely > source. > > > It's easy to > > > confuse potential buyers and change the source > by > > > calling it andesine > > > (and also technically correct, at least for some > of > > > the Plush > > > stones). How can one "prove by law" that rough > was > > > stolen from a > > > shipment to be cut? I would like to know how > this > > > could be > > > accomplished, since more than a few friends had > very > > > nice, large AAA > > > grade red and/or green stones sent to China and > > > received a terrible > > > yield (<30%) of small, A grade or worse cut > stones > > > in return. Great > > > rough does not turn into so-so cut stones, even > if > > > the worst cutters > > > in existence botch the job. Blood red color does > not > > > disappear when a > > > stone is cut. I suppose you could babysit your > rough > > > all the way to > > > China and back, but who is going to do that? > They > > > simply stopped > > > doing business with Chinese cutters. > > > > > > Of course the rough is cheap. since it was free > to > > > the sellers. > > > Bottom line: if it seems like too good a deal to > be > > > true, it probably > > > isn't true. And really, why should a typical > buyer > > > care? Buy the > > > stones, get them cut, and be done with it. Know > that > > > they were stolen > > > from honest miners in the US, though. > > > > > > At 08:47 AM 4/8/2007, you wrote: > > > >Hi There; > > > > > > > >I'm just a unassuming newcomer/beginner > collector > > > who tripped over an e-mail > > > >from Ap. 25, 2006 on red andesine. Most > notable to > > > me was the comment that > > > >every time Oregon sunstone was shipped for > cutting > > > a > > > >certain percentage would > > > >be "lost" from that shipment in the cutting and > > > then suddenly andesine from > > > >undetermined overseas mines would hit the > market. > > > I wonder if it was ever > > > >proven by law that these shipments were > obviously > > > pirated? I'm > > > >about to buy a > > > >red andesine from Afghan. Ever heard of a > mine > > > there? I kinda doubt it > > > >myself. But it really looks like a good stone > and > > > the price is so > > > >right that I > > > >can't lose even if the stone is glass! So, > I'm > > > going to buy this. If you > > > >need me to do something with it let me know > and I > > > will. I read > > > >something in the > > > >article about forensics and trying to track > down > > > the origin of the mine the > > > >stone really came from, etc. What you can do > to > > > help me is lead me in the > > > >right direction to printed material to learn > more > > > about accurately > > > >learning to > > > >purchase stones for collection and profit. > That > > > would be wonderful! I also > > > >have this fantasy of hoping to learn the trade > of > > > stone setting someday. > > > >What a grand scheme..... > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks so much, > > > >Rebekah Donohue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >************************************** See > what's > > > free at http://www.aol.com. > > > > > > > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts > --- > === message truncated === From territoones1 at ameritech.net Tue Apr 10 09:44:04 2007 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Tue Apr 10 09:44:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Andesine/Labradorite In-Reply-To: <461AF60E.3080509@arczip.com> Message-ID: <809479.68838.qm@web81713.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Charles~ I live in Ohio, and it is somewhat farther for me, but I may make the drive out that way again sometime to take in more of the wonders of natue. Thanks --- Charles Baran wrote: > Is it worth the trip? Where are you coming from? I > live in Washington > and from I have read about the place, it is well > worth the trip(for me) > but I don't know about you. Chuck > > teresa jetter wrote: > > >Question...... > >I have been going around the united States rock > >digging,faceting, and cabbing stones for awhile > now. > >I have seen on the travel channel about the Oregon > >sunstone mines, and I have wanted to go there and > do > >some digging. > >Is is worth the trip? Has anyone else on this list > >made the trip? I know that it is a gamble, but > what I > >saw from the travel channel is the price tag on a > good > >cut red stone. the Schillers are very pretty as > well, > >and would make a nice bracelet or ear rings. > >I just want some feedback from the listers. > >Thanks > >Tj > >--- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > > > > > >>Let's see, first they are reported to originate in > a > >>mine in some > >>remote part of western China, that "westerners" > are > >>not normally > >>allowed to visit. The pictures posted to the net > >>(now no longer > >>available, of course) looked an awful lot like one > >>of the sunstone > >>mines near Plush, Oregon. The rough was identical > to > >>the best Plush > >>blood red sunstone rough in size, shape, and > color. > >>Then, when people > >>started asking the obvious questions, the Chinese > >>website was taken > >>down, and the andesine source was reported in Gems > & > >>Gemology as the > >>Congo. After all, who would want to risk getting > >>killed by rebels > >>just to verify that red sunstone was coming from > >>Africa? Now, it's > >>Afghanistan. Care to book a flight? Got your > >>military escort lined > >>up? See a pattern here? Next it will be Iraq, or > >>better yet Iran. How > >>about Libya? > >> > >>The red sunstone rough is all from Plush, or (a > >>remote possibility), > >>the Ponderosa mine to the NE, and the rough that > is > >>routinely stolen > >>by Chinese cutting houses is the most likely > source. > >>It's easy to > >>confuse potential buyers and change the source by > >>calling it andesine > >>(and also technically correct, at least for some > of > >>the Plush > >>stones). How can one "prove by law" that rough > was > >>stolen from a > >>shipment to be cut? I would like to know how this > >>could be > >>accomplished, since more than a few friends had > very > >>nice, large AAA > >>grade red and/or green stones sent to China and > >>received a terrible > >>yield (<30%) of small, A grade or worse cut stones > >>in return. Great > >>rough does not turn into so-so cut stones, even if > >>the worst cutters > >>in existence botch the job. Blood red color does > not > >>disappear when a > >>stone is cut. I suppose you could babysit your > rough > >>all the way to > >>China and back, but who is going to do that? They > >>simply stopped > >>doing business with Chinese cutters. > >> > >>Of course the rough is cheap. since it was free to > >>the sellers. > >>Bottom line: if it seems like too good a deal to > be > >>true, it probably > >>isn't true. And really, why should a typical buyer > >>care? Buy the > >>stones, get them cut, and be done with it. Know > that > >>they were stolen > >>from honest miners in the US, though. > >> > >>At 08:47 AM 4/8/2007, you wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Hi There; > >>> > >>>I'm just a unassuming newcomer/beginner collector > >>> > >>> > >>who tripped over an e-mail > >>>from Ap. 25, 2006 on red andesine. Most notable > to > >>me was the comment that > >> > >> > >>>every time Oregon sunstone was shipped for > cutting > >>> > >>> > >>a > >> > >> > >>>certain percentage would > >>>be "lost" from that shipment in the cutting and > >>> > >>> > >>then suddenly andesine from > >> > >> > >>>undetermined overseas mines would hit the > market. > >>> > >>> > >>I wonder if it was ever > >> > >> > >>>proven by law that these shipments were > obviously > >>> > >>> > >>pirated? I'm > >> > >> > >>>about to buy a > >>>red andesine from Afghan. Ever heard of a mine > >>> > >>> > >>there? I kinda doubt it > >> > >> > >>>myself. But it really looks like a good stone > and > >>> > >>> > >>the price is so > >> > >> > >>>right that I > >>>can't lose even if the stone is glass! So, I'm > >>> > >>> > >>going to buy this. If you > >> > >> > >>>need me to do something with it let me know and > I > >>> > >>> > >>will. I read > >> > >> > >>>something in the > >>>article about forensics and trying to track down > >>> > >>> > >>the origin of the mine the > >> > >> > >>>stone really came from, etc. What you can do to > >>> > >>> > >>help me is lead me in the > >> > >> > >>>right direction to printed material to learn > more > >>> > >>> > >>about accurately > >> > >> > === message truncated === From rockcurrier at cs.com Tue Apr 10 20:09:23 2007 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Tue Apr 10 19:10:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon sunstone References: <200704110101.l3B10pgl000666@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00de01c77be6$ce6e2d10$6b01a8c0@rock3> Dear Tim, Specifically what information that I gave do you disagree with? What makes you think I "must be out of the loop? What loop are you talking about? Rock From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Apr 10 21:58:34 2007 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Apr 10 21:57:32 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Summit Eruption at Mount Etna Message-ID: <000c01c77bf6$0fb2dd20$a6f8f604@TheBlackAdder> ******************************************************** Summit eruption at Mount Etna Istituto Nazionale di Geofisica e Vulcanologia ? Sezione di Catania ******************************************************** From: Sonia Calvari (calvari@ct.ingv.it) (All times are in GMT) A new summit eruption occurred at Etna volcano on 29 March 2007 at 5:30 GMT. An increase in volcanic tremor was accompanied by fire fountaining and an ash cloud that rapidly drifted NE. Poor weather conditions prevented observation, even through the monitoring webcams. However, satellite images allowed us to record the movement of the eruptive cloud and its evolution (Coltelli M., Prestifilippo M., Scollo S. & Spata, Osservazione da satellite della emissione di cenere, INGV-CT Report in Italian). The episode lasted about 1 hour, and was accompanied by the re-opening of three eruptive fissures on the summit of Etna, and by lava flow emission. Two lava flows took place from the 3050 m and 3180 m vent located respectively on the SE flank of Bocca Nuova and on the saddle between Bocca Nuova and South-East Crater (SEC), in the same location of the October-November 2006 events. The two flows merged down slope and travelled less than 1 km S, halting at the rim of Cratere del Piano, at about 2900 m a.s.l. (Giammanco S., Rapporto settimanale sull?attivit? eruttiva dell?Etna, 26 Marzo - 1 Aprile 2007, INGV-CT Report in Italian). The third fissure opened at the E base of SEC, and the lava flow spread within the upper Valle del Bove. The survey carried out in the early afternoon showed that the flows were already stopped and no longer fed. Ash and lapilli fallout occurred on a narrow belt comprised between SEC, Rifugio Citelli and Giardini Naxos, on the NE flank of the volcano (Andronico D. & Cristaldi A., L?evento parossistico del 29 marzo 2007 - Caratteristiche dei prodotti e dispersione del deposito, INGV-CT Report in Italian). The composition of the pyroclastics erupted during the explosive phase (Corsaro R.A. & Miraglia L., Attivit? esplosiva del 29 marzo al CSE - analisi dei vetri, INGV-CT Report in Italian) shows a primitive composition, as revealed by the CaO/Al2O3 ratio, much higher than the products erupted between 1995 and 2006, and suggests that a new input of magma fed this activity. After this episode eruptive activity stopped, but volcanic tremor showed since then daily phases of increase and decrease lasting a few hours each. All INGV-CT reports cited here can be downloaded from the INGV-CT web page dedicated to updates on the eruptive activity of Mount Etna: http://www.ct.ingv.it/Default.asp?Pagina=./Etna2007/Report.asp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Sonia Calvari Istituto Nazionale di Geofisica e Vulcanologia Sezione di Catania Piazza Roma 2 95123 Catania (Italy) Tel. +39 095 7165800 direct: +39 095 7165862 Fax: +39 095 435801 url: www.ct.ingv.it --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From territoones1 at ameritech.net Wed Apr 11 16:19:23 2007 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Wed Apr 11 16:19:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon sunstone In-Reply-To: <00de01c77be6$ce6e2d10$6b01a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <319571.83183.qm@web81715.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, I'm Teri J, I think you want someone else. I try "Not" to undermined anyone using the list. :+) --- Rock Currier wrote: > Dear Tim, > Specifically what information that I gave do you > disagree with? What makes > you think I "must be out of the loop? What loop are > you talking about? > Rock > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From tim at orerockon.com Thu Apr 12 10:13:29 2007 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Apr 12 10:11:55 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mt. Hood Rock Club Show Gresham OR April 14-15 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200704121711.l3CHBrR4017192@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Just a quick reminder, the most popular club show in the Pacific Northwest, the Mt. Hood Rock Club annual show is this weekend, Sat 10-6, Sun 10-5, at the Mt. Hood Community College Gymnasium. Enter off NE 17th & Kane (257th), Gresham, Oregon. Admission: $0.00 (Yes, free is a very good price!). We have member dealers with dirt cheap prices on just about anything, great commercial dealers, a silent auction table, buckets o' rock for next to nothing, great display cases & lotsa 50 cent activities for the kids. Get there early Sat for the bucket deals as they go fast. The locally famous thunderegg hunt on Saturday afternoon is a do-not-miss for small children & the oral auction Sunday afternoon is a great opportunity for cheap, high quality rough. Plus, I will be running the auction, so it will be the shortest in MHRC history (yes it will be shorter than last year's, I lost my voice during that one!) ;) The oral auction list is posted to my website at http://orerockon.com/MHRC Oral Auction 2007.pdf (don't click on the link, copy & paste it into your browser). The tentative field trip schedule for many Pacific NW clubs will be available at the show and is also posted to my site at http://orerockon.com/2007 FIELD TRIP SCHEDULE.pdf Sorry but I won't have any time to answer questions about either of these until after the show. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Apr 13 07:46:47 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Apr 13 07:46:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] T Rex tasted like chicken? Message-ID: FYI BK -- J Bryan Kramer photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Apr 13 14:06:32 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Apr 13 14:07:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] saw blades: notched or cont. rim? In-Reply-To: References: <8A9ABB25-9F3E-4994-BCB0-6157C744F8BB@heidelberg.edu> <46130CFE.6020903@carolina.rr.com> Message-ID: <461FF0D8.4070104@verizon.net> Hi cutters, I have been using Raytech 5" continuous rim thin kerf blades on my trim saw. I thought they would cut faster and smoother. However, now I'm beginning to wonder if that was a good choice, since they bend easily and don't last long. I am cutting glass, and some hard rocks, nothing precious or that really requires minimizing waste. Should I go with a thicker, fully sintered notched blade? Thanks, Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Apr 13 19:53:55 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Apr 13 19:50:59 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] T Rex tasted like chicken? References: Message-ID: <46204187.2FDF@Tomaszewski.net> Why did the chicken cross the road? It remembered it was once a T-Rex and could go anywhere it wanted to. -- My local newspaper had a half page article on this on page three this evening. The BBC has a good article I saw this morning on the net. It is great to see Geology in the news. Kreigh J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > FYI > > > > BK > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jsmall47 at earthlink.net Sat Apr 14 04:40:43 2007 From: jsmall47 at earthlink.net (Jim Small) Date: Sat Apr 14 04:38:56 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] saw blades: notched or cont. rim? In-Reply-To: <200704140101.l3E10sLm026726@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200704140101.l3E10sLm026726@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070414073417.028d3110@pop.earthlink.net> Don - Definitely go with the heavier duty blades! You will get much extended blade life, and lots better performance cutting agates and such. You will also produces a lot more ground glass when you cut glass, and will need to take appropriate precautions. You may also have to do more finish work on the edges of the glass. I found that using a diamond band saw for glass and close tolerance cab preforming made sense for my work. KOR, Jim Small Small Wonders Lapidary Church Hill, TN From tim at orerockon.com Sat Apr 14 05:47:39 2007 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Apr 14 05:46:03 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] saw blades: notched or cont. rim? In-Reply-To: <461FF0D8.4070104@verizon.net> References: <8A9ABB25-9F3E-4994-BCB0-6157C744F8BB@heidelberg.edu> <46130CFE.6020903@carolina.rr.com> <461FF0D8.4070104@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200704141246.l3ECk1mt018070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I would still use a continuous rim blade on a trim saw, just a thicker kerf. Stick with a good blade, like the MK 297 or similar. At 02:06 PM 4/13/2007, you wrote: >Hi cutters, > >I have been using Raytech 5" continuous rim thin kerf blades on my >trim saw. I thought they would cut faster and smoother. However, >now I'm beginning to wonder if that was a good choice, since they >bend easily and don't last long. I am cutting glass, and some hard >rocks, nothing precious or that really requires minimizing >waste. Should I go with a thicker, fully sintered notched blade? > >Thanks, >Don Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Apr 14 09:38:03 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Apr 14 09:37:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] saw blades: notched or cont. rim? In-Reply-To: <200704141246.l3ECk1mt018070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <8A9ABB25-9F3E-4994-BCB0-6157C744F8BB@heidelberg.edu> <46130CFE.6020903@carolina.rr.com> <461FF0D8.4070104@verizon.net> <200704141246.l3ECk1mt018070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <4621036B.7090400@verizon.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > I would still use a continuous rim blade on a trim saw, just a thicker > kerf. Stick with a good blade, like the MK 297 or similar. Thanks to all. After looking, I realized that most, if not all trim blades are continuous rim anyway, and not many in 5". I got the MK-303, I hope they hold up better than the Yellow Blazers. regards, Don From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sat Apr 14 22:47:41 2007 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sat Apr 14 22:48:59 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] T Rex tasted like chicken? References: <46204187.2FDF@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000001c77f21$be56db00$3d4ed0c4@privatexb627h8> Hi all, The obvious answer of course is to get to the other side of the road! Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 4:53 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] T Rex tasted like chicken? > Why did the chicken cross the road? > > It remembered it was once a T-Rex and could go anywhere it wanted to. > > -- > > My local newspaper had a half page article on this on page three this > evening. The BBC has a good article I saw this morning on the net. It is > great to see Geology in the news. > > Kreigh > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: >> >> FYI >> >> >> >> BK >> >> -- >> J Bryan Kramer >> photos at: >> http://pbase.com/photoburner >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From tim at orerockon.com Sun Apr 15 04:28:20 2007 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Apr 15 04:26:42 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] saw blades: notched or cont. rim? In-Reply-To: <4621036B.7090400@verizon.net> References: <8A9ABB25-9F3E-4994-BCB0-6157C744F8BB@heidelberg.edu> <46130CFE.6020903@carolina.rr.com> <461FF0D8.4070104@verizon.net> <200704141246.l3ECk1mt018070@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4621036B.7090400@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200704151126.l3FBQe1K002111@bubbleator.drizzle.com> As far as I can tell, my 303's will probably outlast ME :) At 09:38 AM 4/14/2007, you wrote: >Tim Fisher wrote: > >>I would still use a continuous rim blade on a trim saw, just a >>thicker kerf. Stick with a good blade, like the MK 297 or similar. > > >Thanks to all. After looking, I realized that most, if not all trim >blades are continuous rim anyway, and not many in 5". I got the >MK-303, I hope they hold up better than the Yellow Blazers. > >regards, >Don > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From buff1 at ptd.net Sun Apr 15 15:17:49 2007 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Sun Apr 15 15:17:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] email for F.O.M.S. In-Reply-To: <000c01c77bf6$0fb2dd20$a6f8f604@TheBlackAdder> References: <000c01c77bf6$0fb2dd20$a6f8f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <4622A48D.7030205@ptd.net> Does anyone have an email for a good contact in the Franklin Ogdensburg Mineral Society or F.O.M.S. ?? I checked the web site and could not find one posted. I need to verify that my membership has been renewed and the directions and specifics for this weekends field trip. Thank you very much for your time and PLEASE be sure you respond to my email; buff1@ptd.net as a reply to this email will post to the whole list and they may not want that. Dennis Buffenmyer buff1@ptd.net From mineral.maertens at att.net Wed Apr 18 17:05:17 2007 From: mineral.maertens at att.net (Johan Maertens) Date: Wed Apr 18 17:09:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE:saw blades: notched or cont. rim? In-Reply-To: <200704140101.l3E10sLm026726@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Don, I have been using my notched thick blade for five years. Once a large rock got pulled out of the vise and bend the blade (took out a chunk and a few notches) I hammered the blade flat and it is running about fine without problems cutting our NJ trap rock. I considered the thin sintered back-up blade yet, sintered thin blade suffers more easily under (unintended) abuse. Go for the notched blade. The notches hold more diamonds and you will cut longer with that blade. Sometimes you distributor refurbishes a sintered blade by pressing new diamonds in the rim. Not sure how that goes. Johan Maertens Mineral dot Maertens at att dot net calcite4ever at gmail dot com Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at http://www.minerant.org Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite Collectors Association Visit http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ From info at agatesfromargentina.com Wed Apr 18 18:11:18 2007 From: info at agatesfromargentina.com (Agates from Argentina) Date: Wed Apr 18 18:11:17 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Saw Blades References: <200704190101.l3J11ZWk032354@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000301c7821f$a7e57ba0$6da859c8@acescritorio> I have purchased about ten saw -blades (many brands). After this , I noticed they were not manufactured in the US , but Korea , Taiwan and other Asian Countries. These blades , although the instructions for their use were strictly followed , didn?t last what was expected. Would like to know if there is any US manufacturer of saw-blades , and how to get in touch with him. Thank you! RICARDO & CLAUDIA BIRNIE AGATES FROM ARGENTINA www.agatesfromargentina.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:01 PM Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 35, Issue 16 > Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." > > > [Rockhounds-Digest] > > Today's Topics: > > 1. RE:saw blades: notched or cont. rim? (Johan Maertens) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:05:17 -0400 > From: "Johan Maertens" > Subject: [Rockhounds] RE:saw blades: notched or cont. rim? > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" > > Don, I have been using my notched thick blade for five years. > Once a large rock got pulled out of the vise and bend the blade (took > out a chunk and a few notches) > I hammered the blade flat and it is running about fine without > problems cutting our NJ trap rock. > > I considered the thin sintered back-up blade yet, sintered thin blade > suffers more easily under (unintended) abuse. > > Go for the notched blade. The notches hold more diamonds and you will > cut longer with that blade. > > Sometimes you distributor refurbishes a sintered blade by pressing > new diamonds in the rim. Not sure how that goes. > > Johan Maertens > Mineral dot Maertens at att dot net > calcite4ever at gmail dot com > > Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? > Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at > http://www.minerant.org > Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite > Collectors Association > Visit http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 35, Issue 16 > ****************************************** > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.5.2/766 - Release Date: 18/04/2007 > 07:39 a.m. > From territoones1 at ameritech.net Wed Apr 18 18:12:00 2007 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Wed Apr 18 18:12:03 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE:saw blades: notched or cont. rim? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <544111.19119.qm@web81707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi~ Does anyone have a Australian Opalized Dendrite for sale? I cut one open, and cabbed a wonderful piece that was then cast, and is now around my neck. Tj --- Johan Maertens wrote: > Don, I have been using my notched thick blade for > five years. > Once a large rock got pulled out of the vise and > bend the blade (took > out a chunk and a few notches) > I hammered the blade flat and it is running about > fine without > problems cutting our NJ trap rock. > > I considered the thin sintered back-up blade yet, > sintered thin blade > suffers more easily under (unintended) abuse. > > Go for the notched blade. The notches hold more > diamonds and you will > cut longer with that blade. > > Sometimes you distributor refurbishes a sintered > blade by pressing > new diamonds in the rim. Not sure how that goes. > > Johan Maertens > Mineral dot Maertens at att dot net > calcite4ever at gmail dot com > > Do you like minerals and other earth treasures? > Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral > Club of Antwerp at > http://www.minerant.org > Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the > International Calcite > Collectors Association > Visit http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/ > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Wed Apr 18 19:17:42 2007 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Wed Apr 18 19:17:44 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] E:saw blades: notched or cont. rim? Message-ID: Hi Don, I agree with much of what Johan said, just now, but would like to add something to it. Just as sandals tend not to work very well for snow shovelling, and pickaxes do a pretty messy job of removing tooth decay at the dentist's office, each type of sawblade is a fairly specialized tool, and is designed to handle specific types of rock. Notched blades are the cheapest type known to (and made by) man. They're great for use against relafively fine-grained materials which aren't all that tough (like traprock, siltstone and weathered basalts), but don't hold up well against most silicates or composites, like breccias, granite and the jades. For either of the jades, or either a breccia or conclomerate, I'd recommend a sintered blade, or one of those (the proper name escapes me, just now) which feature metal "teeth" brazed onto the outer rim of the blade. These tend to both impact and grind through, so they're not for use on delicate or brittle materials, but are pretty rugged, overrall. Finally, for silicates, fine faceting or cabbing rough, or delicate minerals like vanadinite/pyromorphite, wulfenite, sulfur, etc.), I'd suggest you invest in thin, electroplated blade, like Johnson Brothers' "Pro-Slicer", since it presents the least friction and the thinnest kerf (the "wake" of damage left by the blade, if you will), and thus, the least amount of collateral damage. Hope this has been helpful! All the best, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet DesignP. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:01:55 -0700> From: rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 35, Issue 16> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to> rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com> > You can reach the person managing the list at> rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..."> > > [Rockhounds-Digest]> > Today's Topics:> > 1. RE:saw blades: notched or cont. rim? (Johan Maertens)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:05:17 -0400> From: "Johan Maertens" > Subject: [Rockhounds] RE:saw blades: notched or cont. rim?> To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"> > Don, I have been using my notched thick blade for five years.> Once a large rock got pulled out of the vise and bend the blade (took> out a chunk and a few notches)> I hammered the blade flat and it is running about fine without> problems cutting our NJ trap rock.> > I considered the thin sintered back-up blade yet, sintered thin blade> suffers more easily under (unintended) abuse.> > Go for the notched blade. The notches hold more diamonds and you will> cut longer with that blade.> > Sometimes you distributor refurbishes a sintered blade by pressing> new diamonds in the rim. Not sure how that goes.> > Johan Maertens> Mineral dot Maertens at att dot net> calcite4ever at gmail dot com> > Do you like minerals and other earth treasures?> Visit the Mineral Collectors Page by the Mineral Club of Antwerp at> http://www.minerant.org> Enjoy the beauty of calcite and join the International Calcite> Collectors Association> Visit http://www.rockhounds.com/icca/> > > > > > ------------------------------> > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html> > End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 35, Issue 16> ****************************************** --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Apr 18 20:15:10 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Apr 18 19:55:22 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] E:saw blades: notched or cont. rim? References: Message-ID: <4626DA08.58A6@Tomaszewski.net> Most/Many notched blades are designed for dry use in construction and are expected to be both disposable and cheap; using them wet preserves their life and makes them useful in lapidary. My trim saw has had a 'microperf' sintered blade on it for over 20 years; learn patience and let the blade do the work. Kreigh Douglas Turet wrote: > > Hi Don, > > I agree with much of what Johan said, just now, but would like to add something to it. Just as sandals tend not to work very well for snow shovelling, and pickaxes do a pretty messy job of removing tooth decay at the dentist's office, each type of sawblade is a fairly specialized tool, and is designed to handle specific types of rock. Notched blades are the cheapest type known to (and made by) man. They're great for use against relafively fine-grained materials which aren't all that tough (like traprock, siltstone and weathered basalts), but don't hold up well against most silicates or composites, like breccias, granite and the jades. For either of the jades, or either a breccia or conclomerate, I'd recommend a sintered blade, or one of those (the proper name escapes me, just now) which feature metal "teeth" brazed onto the outer rim of the blade. These tend to both impact and grind through, so they're not for use on delicate or brittle materials, but are pretty rugged, overrall. Finally, for silicates, fine faceting or cabbing rough, or delicate minerals like vanadinite/pyromorphite, wulfenite, sulfur, etc.), I'd suggest you invest in thin, electroplated blade, like Johnson Brothers' "Pro-Slicer", since it presents the least friction and the thinnest kerf (the "wake" of damage left by the blade, if you will), and thus, the least amount of collateral damage. Hope this has been helpful! > > Hope this has been helpful! > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jabac at hal-pc.org Thu Apr 19 18:38:54 2007 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jabac) Date: Thu Apr 19 18:37:49 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Saw Blades In-Reply-To: <000301c7821f$a7e57ba0$6da859c8@acescritorio> References: <200704190101.l3J11ZWk032354@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <000301c7821f$a7e57ba0$6da859c8@acescritorio> Message-ID: <462819AE.6060104@hal-pc.org> Agates from Argentina wrote: > I have purchased about ten saw -blades (many brands). After this , I > noticed they were not manufactured in the US , but Korea , Taiwan and > other Asian Countries. > These blades , although the instructions for their use were strictly > followed , didn?t last what was expected. > Would like to know if there is any US manufacturer of saw-blades , and > how to get in touch with him. > Thank you! > RICARDO & CLAUDIA BIRNIE > AGATES FROM ARGENTINA > www.agatesfromargentina.com > Check the www.inlandlapidary.com web site. They have saws, wheels, and blades to 6" of very good quality. john From jsmall47 at earthlink.net Fri Apr 20 04:20:46 2007 From: jsmall47 at earthlink.net (Jim Small) Date: Fri Apr 20 04:18:59 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] treatment of chalcopyrite/bornite In-Reply-To: <200704200102.l3K120Wj025892@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200704200102.l3K120Wj025892@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070420071111.028cb948@pop.earthlink.net> Through a series of fortunate circumstances we have a truckload of specimens to sort and prepare for our Summer club educational show. After a preliminary "walk through" I have accumulated almost 100 pounds of pieces of bornite and chalcopyrite from various locales, but most of the pieces have serious oxidation coating. I have been told in the past, going back to the 1960s, that the small chalcopyrite/bornite specimens which are mainstays of bulk specimen dealers have been acid treated to bring up their bright colors. Does anyone on the list have direct experience which they can share on acid treating these minerals? I have enough lead time yet to even give them a good long soak if that is what is required. Thanks, Jim Small Small Wonders Lapidary Church Hill, TN also VP Kingsport Gems and Minerals Society From rcnrn at netzero.net Fri Apr 20 06:18:59 2007 From: rcnrn at netzero.net (rcnrn@netzero.net) Date: Fri Apr 20 06:21:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] starting new hobby Message-ID: <20070420.061953.3483.2858044@webmail12.lax.untd.com> My sister and I just got home from Tn. where we did some gem mining. We LOVED it and would like to continue this hobby. Does anyone know where I can get information on where in Illinois or surrounding states we can go to do this? Or does anybody know of websites where I can get information? thanks Rhonda --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Apr 20 06:29:34 2007 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Apr 20 06:29:37 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] starting new hobby In-Reply-To: <20070420.061953.3483.2858044@webmail12.lax.untd.com> Message-ID: <284430.7749.qm@web34315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Where in Illinois? If you're in northern IL, go to www.esconi.org THis is the website for ESCONI (Earth Science Club Of Northern Illinois). WE meet at the College of DuPage, in Glen Ellyn. Jim Daly "rcnrn@netzero.net" wrote: My sister and I just got home from Tn. where we did some gem mining. We LOVED it and would like to continue this hobby. Does anyone know where I can get information on where in Illinois or surrounding states we can go to do this? Or does anybody know of websites where I can get information? thanks Rhonda --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From hammerron at yahoo.com Fri Apr 20 06:47:19 2007 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Fri Apr 20 06:47:22 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] starting new hobby Message-ID: <968949.14285.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi Rhonda: It might be good to try and contact local mineral; clubs, that are close to the area. Here is a link to a listing of some Illinois Clubs: http://www.amfed.org/mwf/illinois.htm All the best! -Ron http://www.hammerron.com/minerals ----- Original Message ---- From: "rcnrn@netzero.net" To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 9:18:59 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] starting new hobby My sister and I just got home from Tn. where we did some gem mining. We LOVED it and would like to continue this hobby. Does anyone know where I can get information on where in Illinois or surrounding states we can go to do this? Or does anybody know of websites where I can get information? thanks Rhonda --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Fri Apr 20 06:51:50 2007 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Apr 20 06:51:13 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] treatment of chalcopyrite/bornite References: <200704200102.l3K120Wj025892@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <6.2.3.4.2.20070420071111.028cb948@pop.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000601c78353$0e8eeb00$ee951b4b@LarryRush> Jim: I have had good results cleaning chalcopyrite from the Sweetwater area by using a hot solution of Iron-Out and water. I don't soak it long, and watch it constantly, and when the oxidation is removed, I remove it immediately and rinse with clear water. I suspect that oxalic acid may work as well, but I find Iron-Out to be less toxic and less damaging to specimens. I haven't tried this with bornite. Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Small" To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 7:20 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] treatment of chalcopyrite/bornite > Through a series of fortunate circumstances we have a truckload of > specimens to sort and prepare for our Summer club educational show. After > a preliminary "walk through" I have accumulated almost 100 pounds of > pieces of bornite and chalcopyrite from various locales, but most of the > pieces have serious oxidation coating. I have been told in the past, going > back to the 1960s, that the small chalcopyrite/bornite specimens which are > mainstays of bulk specimen dealers have been acid treated to bring up > their bright colors. > > Does anyone on the list have direct experience which they can share on > acid treating these minerals? I have enough lead time yet to even give > them a good long soak if that is what is required. > > Thanks, > > Jim Small > Small Wonders Lapidary > Church Hill, TN > > also VP > Kingsport Gems and Minerals Society > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From web_admin at ccfms.ca Fri Apr 20 07:12:14 2007 From: web_admin at ccfms.ca (CCFMS Web Admin) Date: Fri Apr 20 07:11:44 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] starting new hobby/Club Listing In-Reply-To: <968949.14285.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c78355$e595ff60$efc73a43@sdouglas> I would be remiss if I didn't mention the CCFMS North American Club Websites. The web pages contain a listing of rock, fossil, mineral, lapidary, etc. clubs from Canada and the United States. Simply go to www.ccfms.ca and look for link to the North American Club Websites on the left hand side of the page. Rhonda, there are clubs from Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Tennesse, Kentucky... heck you may even want to venture into Ontario. Good luck on you new hobby. Sincerely, Stephen Douglas CCFMS Communications Director & Web Admin web_admin@ccfms.ca http://www.ccfms.ca/ ----- Original Message ---- From: "rcnrn@netzero.net" To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 9:18:59 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] starting new hobby My sister and I just got home from Tn. where we did some gem mining. We LOVED it and would like to continue this hobby. Does anyone know where I can get information on where in Illinois or surrounding states we can go to do this? Or does anybody know of websites where I can get information? thanks Rhonda From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Apr 20 08:18:20 2007 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Apr 20 08:19:02 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question re: Spessertine Garnets Message-ID: <002b01c7835f$21aee3f0$6008a118@feldsparflash> To the List: I understand spessertine garnets can form under metamorphic conditions. I would like to know what would be the protolith that would give manganese to the spessertine chemistry. Thanks, Carolyn Reynard . --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jeanne at jeannius.com Sat Apr 21 05:03:34 2007 From: jeanne at jeannius.com (Jeanne Rhodes-Moen) Date: Sat Apr 21 05:03:50 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scientists make new material capable of scratching diamonds! Message-ID: <4629FD96.1020206@jeannius.com> Maybe lapidary wheels will get cheaper now? http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070416/full/070416-13.html Jeanne -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *My Jewelry:* *http://www.jeannius.com* ** *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Apr 21 05:40:00 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Apr 21 05:40:06 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Scientists make new material capable of scratching diamonds! In-Reply-To: <4629FD96.1020206@jeannius.com> References: <4629FD96.1020206@jeannius.com> Message-ID: Rhenium is a very rare element, almost as rare as Osmium and almost 500 times less common than tungsten. Roughly the same as gold. BK On 4/21/07, Jeanne Rhodes-Moen wrote: > > Maybe lapidary wheels will get cheaper now? > > http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070416/full/070416-13.html > > > Jeanne > -- > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Apr 21 16:37:56 2007 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Apr 21 16:37:11 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] treatment of chalcopyrite/bornite References: <200704210101.l3L10xiK012815@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004501c7846e$17497eb0$6801a8c0@rock6> Jim, The material tha you refer to as: "are mainstays of bulk specimen dealers" are almost always chunks of massive chalcopyrite or rocks rich in chalcopyrite (most commonly associated with pyrite). These are treated with concentrated sulfuric and phosphoric acid to slightly oxidize? the freshly broken chalcopyrite surfaces to give the peacock color that is so appealing to collectors and the general public. If you repeat your request on the Mindat general bulletin board you may be able to get some specific formulations of how much of which acid(s) and what concentrations, but probably not. The reason for this is two fold. The first reason is that the guys that do this commercially are not anxious to share their secrets and risk breaking their rice bowl and secondly, sulfuric and phosphoric acid are strong acids and if you don't know how to handle them you could hurt yourself and decide to sue someone. I have been told several times by guys that treat massive chalcopyrite/pyrite chunks and by guys who color pyrite dollars that the acids are fairly concentrated and you just dip the material to be treated into it for a few minutes and pull it out and wash it off. They all indicate that the process is something of a black art in that the results vary from day to day and depending on where the rough rock is from. I was told by one person who treated a lot of pyrite dollars that sometimes bucket after bucket of pyrite dollars would come out beautifully and some days the process didn't work at all. It probably has something to do with the temperature of the solution and the rocks and perhaps even the humidity and how long you let the material sit with the acid on it before washing it off. He said you had to keep your eye on the process and make little alterations along the way. I don't think you will be able to add much in the rainbow colors to specimens of bornite you may have. I get the impression that this material oxidizes naturally to colorful material naturally and quickly. If the chalcopyrite is already oxidized you may or may not be able to make it iridescent. It is has a black crust there if probably not all that much that you could do that would make sense. If it is lightly coated you may be able to remove the coating with ironout or acid and then treat it to make it iridescent. Rock From jsmall47 at earthlink.net Sun Apr 22 03:28:22 2007 From: jsmall47 at earthlink.net (Jim Small) Date: Sun Apr 22 03:26:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] treatment of chalcopyrite/bornite In-Reply-To: <200704220101.l3M11JaF019139@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200704220101.l3M11JaF019139@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070422062141.0294e0d8@pop.earthlink.net> Larry and Rock - Thank you for your information! I know a little more now than I did; Rock's info on commercial treaters is especially welcomed. I'll check out Mindat, and I have enough time that I can experiment with my materials, to see if I can come up with a way to lighten the bornite especially. I do have both training and experience working with acids and other hazardous chemicals, but don't intend to go whole hog with this project. I will keep track of specifics, and post my results if I have success. I will only post failure if there is something radical which occurs. KOR, Jim Small Church Hill, TN From Pmodreski at aol.com Sun Apr 22 08:28:00 2007 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 22 08:28:12 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] treatment of chalcopyrite/bornite Message-ID: Hi Jim & the list, I thought I'd add two cents to the comments about bornite/chalcopyrite. Rock C., of course, has provided the definitive "poop" about how chalcopyrite is treated to make the pretty-colored "peacock ore". My two cents is mainly to reiterate, that basically all of the colored iridescent material that is sold in rock shops, is in fact just chalcopyrite, not bornite. This leads to a common mistaken impression about the identity among rockhounds, because one reads in mineral books that "peacock ore" is bornite, and that is of indeed the traditional descriptive name for bornite, which forms a dark purplish-blue to violet tarnish, naturally--from before the days when dealers would artificially enhance mass quantities of Mexican chalcopyrite for sale to rock shops as "peacock ore". So when one sees "peacock ore" the vibrant bright red-violet and bright blue or green colors and especially any yellow, it is most likely to be chalcopyrite. Not saying that the two minerals don't ever occur together, but usually, what one says is solid, massive dark-colored pieces of bornite, or, solid chalcopyrite (often intergrown with quartz or the rock matrix). The best way to tell them apart, is look for a freshly broken, untarnished surface, or just chip a bit off; if the undrelying color is bright brassy-yellow, it's chalcopyrite, and if it's dark metallic bronzy-brown, it's bornite. When I just google-image-searched for "bornite", I think most of the images that come up are really of tarnished chalcopyrite. The first one that comes up for me--from Amethyst Galleries, _http://www.galleries.com/minerals/sulfides/bornite/bornite.jpg_ (http://www.galleries.com/minerals/sulfides/bornite/bornite.jpg) is for sure real bornite, as of course are some of the others, including the one of a bornite crystal. And just a thought, Jim, since you're going to be experimenting, the acids Rock describes [the nasty dangerous ones] are designed to oxidize and tarnish the chalcopyrite, not remove it. You might perhaps try something like just soaking some dark, tarnished specimens in ordinary HCl, to see if that removes the tarnish, and then try re-oxidizing them via Rock's directions, and see if that gets the effect you want. I'd always also heard that chalcopyrite was artifically tarnish-enhanced by heating it in an oven, and perhaps that used to be done too (I've heard that it works), but I guess, as per Rock, the present common mass production method is with those acids. Pete Modreski ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sun Apr 22 08:38:31 2007 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sun Apr 22 08:37:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] treatment of chalcopyrite/bornite References: Message-ID: <000601c784f4$4835a3b0$2afad24c@LarryRush> As one more comment about the colors of chalcopyrite, last year in Missouri, I saw some very brightly colored pieces of chalcopyrite from the Sweetwater area. With some effort, I was told that the colors were enhanced by playing a "torch" over the crystals, searing them into bright reds, greens and blues. I assume this was a propane torch, such as is used for plumbing purposes. Maybe it was acid, maybe the torch, in any case, it was artificial, although attractive for the tourists!! I was also told that the effect might be temporary (re-oxidized), but that it could be re-colored again the same way. Another of the mineral "fakes" to be aware of! Larry Rush ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] treatment of chalcopyrite/bornite > Hi Jim & the list, > > I thought I'd add two cents to the comments about bornite/chalcopyrite. > Rock C., of course, has provided the definitive "poop" about how > chalcopyrite is > treated to make the pretty-colored "peacock ore". > > My two cents is mainly to reiterate, that basically all of the colored > iridescent material that is sold in rock shops, is in fact just > chalcopyrite, not > bornite. This leads to a common mistaken impression about the identity > among > rockhounds, because one reads in mineral books that "peacock ore" is > bornite, and that is of indeed the traditional descriptive name for > bornite, which > forms a dark purplish-blue to violet tarnish, naturally--from before the > days > when dealers would artificially enhance mass quantities of Mexican > chalcopyrite for sale to rock shops as "peacock ore". > > So when one sees "peacock ore" the vibrant bright red-violet and bright > blue > or green colors and especially any yellow, it is most likely to be > chalcopyrite. Not saying that the two minerals don't ever occur together, > but > usually, what one says is solid, massive dark-colored pieces of bornite, > or, solid > chalcopyrite (often intergrown with quartz or the rock matrix). The best > way > to tell them apart, is look for a freshly broken, untarnished surface, or > just chip a bit off; if the undrelying color is bright brassy-yellow, it's > chalcopyrite, and if it's dark metallic bronzy-brown, it's bornite. > > When I just google-image-searched for "bornite", I think most of the > images > that come up are really of tarnished chalcopyrite. The first one that > comes > up for me--from Amethyst Galleries, > _http://www.galleries.com/minerals/sulfides/bornite/bornite.jpg_ > (http://www.galleries.com/minerals/sulfides/bornite/bornite.jpg) > is for sure real bornite, as of course are some of the others, including > the > one of a bornite crystal. > > And just a thought, Jim, since you're going to be experimenting, the acids > Rock describes [the nasty dangerous ones] are designed to oxidize and > tarnish > the chalcopyrite, not remove it. You might perhaps try something like > just > soaking some dark, tarnished specimens in ordinary HCl, to see if that > removes > the tarnish, and then try re-oxidizing them via Rock's directions, and see > if > that gets the effect you want. > > I'd always also heard that chalcopyrite was artifically tarnish-enhanced > by > heating it in an oven, and perhaps that used to be done too (I've heard > that > it works), but I guess, as per Rock, the present common mass production > method > is with those acids. > > Pete Modreski > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > http://www.aol.com. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From triassic220 at yahoo.com.cn Sat Apr 21 21:03:38 2007 From: triassic220 at yahoo.com.cn (Xiodn) Date: Sun Apr 22 12:05:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] I Need a Crinoid! Message-ID: <361054.43749.qm@web15304.mail.cnb.yahoo.com> Hi John, I am glad to talk with you firstly! I have seen your post messager about Need a Crinoid,i am sincerely to offer you some plate of Crinoid for you to share,here photos attached is a large plate of Nice Triassic Age Crinoid specimens from China,originated in Guizhou Province,it is in good condition and near complete,kept great detail.Both great specimens for collect and study. In addation,we have some small Crinoids,you can find them on ebay for a wide selection,we have list them there with many photos and detail information.Our ebay ID is triassic220 Thanks for taking time looking! I am waiting to your repond! Have a nice day! Best regards, Yeo --------------------------------- ÇÀ×¢ÑÅ»¢Ãâ·ÑÓÊÏä-3.5GÈÝÁ¿£¬20M¸½¼þ£¡ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg --- From bigred at grantspass.com Sun Apr 22 14:43:25 2007 From: bigred at grantspass.com (Richard and Jan Arnold) Date: Sun Apr 22 14:43:37 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan's UP Message-ID: <462BD6FD.6080002@grantspass.com> I will be traveling to Michigan's UP in July. Can anyone suggest what kinds of rocks and minerals can be found and likely places? Thanks Jan From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Apr 22 14:59:31 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Apr 22 15:00:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan's UP References: <462BD6FD.6080002@grantspass.com> Message-ID: <003901c78529$86b8a670$0300a8c0@Notebook> Jan, Check out http://www.dayooper.com/ LOTS of fun stuff in the U.P.! John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard and Jan Arnold" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 2:43 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan's UP >I will be traveling to Michigan's UP in July. Can anyone suggest what >kinds of rocks and minerals can be found and likely places? > Thanks > Jan From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Apr 22 17:45:46 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 22 17:40:14 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan's UP References: <462BD6FD.6080002@grantspass.com> Message-ID: <462C0055.54BC@Tomaszewski.net> Richard and Jan Arnold wrote: > > I will be traveling to Michigan's UP in July. Can anyone suggest what > kinds of rocks and minerals can be found and likely places? > Thanks > Jan > Jan, No trip to Michigan's UP is complete without visiting Michigan's copper country, the Keweenaw Peninsula, with sixty some minerals to be found with the native copper across a couple dozen mine locations. My suggestion would be to start collecting on the Cliff Mine's dumps. The Quincy and Deleware Mines have underground tours. Look for agates on the Lake Superior shoreline. While in Houghton/Hancock you will want to visit the Seaman Mineral Museum at Michigan Tech. It is one of the best mineral museums in the world. Hours vary, so check ahead to make sure they will be open. You will probably want to visit iron country around Ishpeming. Mines are harder to find or get into, but there are many great roadcuts in the area. Michigan's Iron Industry Museum in Negaunee is an interesting stop. The rest of Michigan's UP is mostly sedimentary rock and less varied mineralogically. Have fun collecting in my home state. Kreigh From jpjunk at mc.net Sun Apr 22 22:44:37 2007 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Sun Apr 22 22:44:42 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan's UP In-Reply-To: <462BD6FD.6080002@grantspass.com> References: <462BD6FD.6080002@grantspass.com> Message-ID: <220DA54F-3C09-43E4-8EBA-8C88943F695B@mc.net> By all means head for the Keweenaw Peninsula.If at all possible take along a metal detector, (even a cheap garage-sale model, like the three I have) and spend time on the old mine dumps. My wife and I have spent quite a few pleasant days picking up native copper nuggets, many of them bigger than my hand. Also, educate yourself about datolite, a fascinating local specialty. The local clubs are great, there are good rock-shops and yoopers are some of the friendliest people on earth. I hope to go back often. (Don't miss pasties... the local culinary delight... and any wild berry pie that might be in season.) Mail me off list and I'll try to dig up more specifics. John On Apr 22, 2007, at 4:43 PM, Richard and Jan Arnold wrote: > I will be traveling to Michigan's UP in July. Can anyone suggest > what kinds of rocks and minerals can be found and likely places? > Thanks > Jan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > From buff1 at ptd.net Mon Apr 23 05:40:29 2007 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Mon Apr 23 05:40:37 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] B.M.S. 39th Annual Show Message-ID: <462CA93D.1040603@ptd.net> The 39th annual "world of Gems & Minerals" show is being held May 19 & 20, 2007 10-4 with tailgating section open only on saturday. It will be held at the Leesport Farmers Market Banquet Hall, Rout 61, Leesport Pa. 8 miles south of Rt. I-81 and 6 miles N of Reading Pa. Presented by the Berks Mineralogical Society www.berksmineralsociety.org For a map please see www.leesportmarket.com ( map only ) Adult admission donation is $3 and students are free. Tailgaters... $10 per table bring your own chairs; outdoors but under cover. Exhibits, Dealers, Demos... Historically this has been a very good show... but deserves your presence!!! more info ( indoor tables etc....) contact Jim Woodeshick brwoodpile@yahoo.com From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 23 06:52:45 2007 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Mon Apr 23 06:52:48 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan's UP In-Reply-To: <462BD6FD.6080002@grantspass.com> Message-ID: <128879.86004.qm@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You can find directions and GPS coordinates for many mines in the Keweenaw, and a few in the Iron country, on my website www.sauktown.com . Just follow the link to "Field Trips" Jim Daly Richard and Jan Arnold wrote: I will be traveling to Michigan's UP in July. Can anyone suggest what kinds of rocks and minerals can be found and likely places? Thanks Jan -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From territoones1 at ameritech.net Mon Apr 23 11:08:05 2007 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Mon Apr 23 11:08:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan's UP In-Reply-To: <220DA54F-3C09-43E4-8EBA-8C88943F695B@mc.net> Message-ID: <68949.94370.qm@web81701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi~ There is nickle up there too. If anyone know exactly where the old nickle bridge is, that would help you. I just remember going there on one of our outings. Tj --- John Junkroski wrote: > By all means head for the Keweenaw Peninsula.If at > all possible take > along a metal detector, (even a cheap garage-sale > model, like the > three I have) and spend time on the old mine dumps. > > My wife and I have spent quite a few pleasant days > picking up native > copper nuggets, many of them bigger than my hand. > > Also, educate yourself about datolite, a fascinating > local specialty. > > The local clubs are great, there are good rock-shops > and yoopers are > some of the friendliest people on earth. > I hope to go back often. > > (Don't miss pasties... the local culinary delight... > and any wild > berry pie that might be in season.) > Mail me off list and I'll try to dig up more > specifics. > > John > > > On Apr 22, 2007, at 4:43 PM, Richard and Jan Arnold > wrote: > > > I will be traveling to Michigan's UP in July. Can > anyone suggest > > what kinds of rocks and minerals can be found and > likely places? > > Thanks > > Jan > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Apr 23 15:32:31 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Apr 23 15:23:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan's UP - Nickel References: <68949.94370.qm@web81701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <462D31E9.4F9B@Tomaszewski.net> Nickeline and Nickel-Skudderite are known from Keweenaw County. Kennecott Minerals found a body of 3% Nickel sulphides in Marquette County and is trying to open a mine. Kreigh teresa jetter wrote: > > Hi~ > There is nickle up there too. If anyone know exactly > where the old nickle bridge is, that would help you. > I just remember going there on one of our outings. > Tj > --- John Junkroski wrote: > > > By all means head for the Keweenaw Peninsula.If at > > all possible take > > along a metal detector, (even a cheap garage-sale > > model, like the > > three I have) and spend time on the old mine dumps. > > > > My wife and I have spent quite a few pleasant days > > picking up native > > copper nuggets, many of them bigger than my hand. > > > > Also, educate yourself about datolite, a fascinating > > local specialty. > > > > The local clubs are great, there are good rock-shops > > and yoopers are > > some of the friendliest people on earth. > > I hope to go back often. > > > > (Don't miss pasties... the local culinary delight... > > and any wild > > berry pie that might be in season.) > > Mail me off list and I'll try to dig up more > > specifics. > > > > John > > > > > > On Apr 22, 2007, at 4:43 PM, Richard and Jan Arnold > > wrote: > > > > > I will be traveling to Michigan's UP in July. Can > > anyone suggest > > > what kinds of rocks and minerals can be found and > > likely places? > > > Thanks > > > Jan > > > From Pmodreski at aol.com Mon Apr 23 17:38:40 2007 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 23 17:38:59 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Question re: Spessertine Garnets Message-ID: Hi Carolyn, I noticed that no one has tried to answer your question yet, so I thought I'd give a try at an answer. And as often happens, I learned a little myself, from trying to compose a decent answer. ==================== To the List: I understand spessertine garnets can form under metamorphic conditions. I would like to know what would be the protolith that would give manganese to the spessertine chemistry. Thanks, Carolyn Reynard ===================== The simple answer is, metamorphism of any kind of sedimentary manganese ore deposit could produce a metamorphic rock with spessartine garnet. So, it might be any kind of ore deposit that originally contained the common black manganese oxide minerals, perhaps with some clay present also to contribute the aluminum in the garnet (spessartine being Mn-Al-silicate). One of the classic metamorphosed ore deposts known for its spessartine garnet is Broken Hill, NSW, Australia. A recent article about it says in part, Subseafloor origin for Broken Hill Pb-Zn-Ag mineralization, New South Wales, Australia Geology; July 2004; v. 32; no. 7; p. 589-592 "Using relative ages and stratigraphic position, together with lithologic and isotopic variation, a subsea floor origin for the deposits, including the Broken Hill Pb-Zn-Ag orebody, is proposed. Mn-P?rich banded iron formation stratigraphically above the orebody may have been derived from spent ore-forming fluids exhaled onto the seafloor. Extensive magnetite disseminations in metasedimentary rocks at the same level as the banded iron formation probably represent distal signatures of the same hot springs." So they attibute its composition to manganese-rich hot spring deposits formed on the sea floor. I'd also known that a name for one particular kind of manganese-rich metamorphic rock containing spessartine is "coticule". Here's an older article that talked about an origin for such types of rocks: The coticule rocks (spessartine quartzites) of the Venn-Stavelot Massif, Ardennes, a volcanoclastic metasediment? Contributions to Mineralogy and Petrology, Vol. 56, Number 2 / January, 1976 Here's an excerpt from the abstract of that article: "Thin spessartine-quartzite layers (coticules) are interstratified with Ordovician (Salmian) shales of the Venn-Stavelot Massif, Ardennes. These coticules indicate sudden interruptions in the sedimentation process of the shales. ... Phase relations of the phengitebearing spessartine-quartzites including paragonite, chlorite, and chloritoid or kaolinite as subordinate phases give evidence for a manganese-montmorillonitic source material of the coticules. This is in good agreement with the internal structures observed in the coticule layers (swelling and sliding effects, Liesegang structures). Since there is a positive correlation between the oxidation ratio of the enclosing shales and the chemical composition of the coticules, it is proposed that the source material of the coticules developed in situ by halmyrolysis out of tuffs. High oxidation ratios of the shales with iron fixed in the trivalent state but with divalent and thus mobile manganese led to the formation of coticule starting material, dominantly a manganese-montmorillonite. Halmyrolysis products formed under low oxidation ratio conditions of the enclosing shales are characterized by hydrosilicates rich in iron. The Obrochishte manganese deposit, Bulgaria, is discussed as a nonmetamorphic equivalent of the coticules of the Ardennes." I have to admit that the term "halmyrolysis" was a new one on me, and I had to look it up. It means alteration of sediments in contact with seawater. So, this article interprets there to have been manganese-rich clay minerals in altered volcanic tuffs, that upon metamorphism, became spessartine. Pete Modreski ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From territoones1 at ameritech.net Mon Apr 23 18:03:57 2007 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Mon Apr 23 18:04:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan's UP - Nickel In-Reply-To: <462D31E9.4F9B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <815048.47144.qm@web81709.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey Kreigh, thanks for that information. I couldn't remember all of the stops that we made on our journey around the country last summer. :+) TJ --- Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Nickeline and Nickel-Skudderite are known from > Keweenaw County. > Kennecott Minerals found a body of 3% Nickel > sulphides in Marquette > County and is trying to open a mine. > > Kreigh > > > teresa jetter wrote: > > > > Hi~ > > There is nickle up there too. If anyone know > exactly > > where the old nickle bridge is, that would help > you. > > I just remember going there on one of our outings. > > Tj > > --- John Junkroski wrote: > > > > > By all means head for the Keweenaw Peninsula.If > at > > > all possible take > > > along a metal detector, (even a cheap > garage-sale > > > model, like the > > > three I have) and spend time on the old mine > dumps. > > > > > > My wife and I have spent quite a few pleasant > days > > > picking up native > > > copper nuggets, many of them bigger than my > hand. > > > > > > Also, educate yourself about datolite, a > fascinating > > > local specialty. > > > > > > The local clubs are great, there are good > rock-shops > > > and yoopers are > > > some of the friendliest people on earth. > > > I hope to go back often. > > > > > > (Don't miss pasties... the local culinary > delight... > > > and any wild > > > berry pie that might be in season.) > > > Mail me off list and I'll try to dig up more > > > specifics. > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > On Apr 22, 2007, at 4:43 PM, Richard and Jan > Arnold > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I will be traveling to Michigan's UP in July. > Can > > > anyone suggest > > > > what kinds of rocks and minerals can be found > and > > > likely places? > > > > Thanks > > > > Jan > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Apr 23 18:42:38 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Apr 23 18:42:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz Message-ID: <462D6088.252B@Tomaszewski.net> I've got a whole bunch of quartz to clean from my recent collecting trip to Arkansas. My first question is whether Oxalic Acid is really as nasty as the MSDS suggests? I've had experience handling nasty chemicals (mostly in the lab), but I've never worked with oxalic in bulk. Where is the real line between reasonable handling precautions (boiling HCl) and paranoia (hot HF gas)? I'm familiar with the process of cleaning individual specimens with oxalic. My second question is what works in scaling up the process to clean more than a tablefull of specimens? I don't want to spend months cleaning them one at a time in a beaker. Thanks for sharing your experience! Kreigh From bigred at grantspass.com Mon Apr 23 18:56:37 2007 From: bigred at grantspass.com (Richard and Jan Arnold) Date: Mon Apr 23 18:56:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Michigan's UP Message-ID: <462D63D5.9090502@grantspass.com> Thank you to all who suggested materials to look for and places to do. I really appreciate the information. Jan From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 19:05:18 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Apr 23 19:05:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz In-Reply-To: <462D6088.252B@Tomaszewski.net> References: <462D6088.252B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Wear gloves and glasses and you should be OK. Wash it off if you get it on you but it isn't going to instantly burn holes in you like hot HCl. It is mostly a toxicity problem not a corrosive in my experience. BK On 4/23/07, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > I've got a whole bunch of quartz to clean from my recent collecting trip > to Arkansas. > > My first question is whether Oxalic Acid is really as nasty as the MSDS > suggests? I've had experience handling nasty chemicals (mostly in the > lab), but I've never worked with oxalic in bulk. Where is the real line > between reasonable handling precautions (boiling HCl) and paranoia (hot > HF gas)? > > I'm familiar with the process of cleaning individual specimens with > oxalic. My second question is what works in scaling up the process to > clean more than a tablefull of specimens? I don't want to spend months > cleaning them one at a time in a beaker. > > Thanks for sharing your experience! > > Kreigh > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Apr 23 19:46:53 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Apr 23 19:46:55 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Spessertine Garnets Message-ID: Very interesting and explained clearly. Thanks Pete! Glenn From: Pmodreski@aol.comSubject: Re: [Rockhounds] Question re: Spessertine Garnets To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Hi Carolyn, I noticed that no one has tried to answer your question yet, so I thought I'd give a try at an answer. And as often happens, I learned a little myself, from trying to compose a decent answer. ==================== To the List: I understand spessertine garnets can form under metamorphic conditions. I would like to know what would be the protolith that would give manganese to the spessertine chemistry. Thanks, Carolyn Reynard ===================== The simple answer is, metamorphism of any kind of sedimentary manganese ore deposit could produce a metamorphic rock with spessartine garnet. So, it might be any kind of ore deposit that originally contained the common black manganese oxide minerals, perhaps with some clay present also to contribute the aluminum in the garnet (spessartine being Mn-Al-silicate). One of the classic metamorphosed ore deposts known for its spessartine garnet is Broken Hill, NSW, Australia. A recent article about it says in part, Subseafloor origin for Broken Hill Pb-Zn-Ag mineralization, New South Wales, Australia Geology; July 2004; v. 32; no. 7; p. 589-592 "Using relative ages and stratigraphic position, together with lithologic and isotopic variation, a subsea floor origin for the deposits, including the Broken Hill Pb-Zn-Ag orebody, is proposed. Mn-P?rich banded iron formation stratigraphically above the orebody may have been derived from spent ore-forming fluids exhaled onto the seafloor. Extensive magnetite disseminations in metasedimentary rocks at the same level as the banded iron formation probably represent distal signatures of the same hot springs." So they attibute its composition to manganese-rich hot spring deposits formed on the sea floor. I'd also known that a name for one particular kind of manganese-rich metamorphic rock containing spessartine is "coticule". Here's an older article that talked about an origin for such types of rocks: The coticule rocks (spessartine quartzites) of the Venn-Stavelot Massif, Ardennes, a volcanoclastic metasediment? Contributions to Mineralogy and Petrology, Vol. 56, Number 2 / January, 1976 Here's an excerpt from the abstract of that article: "Thin spessartine-quartzite layers (coticules) are interstratified with Ordovician (Salmian) shales of the Venn-Stavelot Massif, Ardennes. These coticules indicate sudden interruptions in the sedimentation process of the shales. ... Phase relations of the phengitebearing spessartine-quartzites including paragonite, chlorite, and chloritoid or kaolinite as subordinate phases give evidence for a manganese-montmorillonitic source material of the coticules. This is in good agreement with the internal structures observed in the coticule layers (swelling and sliding effects, Liesegang structures). Since there is a positive correlation between the oxidation ratio of the enclosing shales and the chemical composition of the coticules, it is proposed that the source material of the coticules developed in situ by halmyrolysis out of tuffs. High oxidation ratios of the shales with iron fixed in the trivalent state but with divalent and thus mobile manganese led to the formation of coticule starting material, dominantly a manganese-montmorillonite. Halmyrolysis products formed under low oxidation ratio conditions of the enclosing shales are characterized by hydrosilicates rich in iron. The Obrochishte manganese deposit, Bulgaria, is discussed as a nonmetamorphic equivalent of the coticules of the Ardennes." I have to admit that the term "halmyrolysis" was a new one on me, and I had to look it up. It means alteration of sediments in contact with seawater. So, this article interprets there to have been manganese-rich clay minerals in altered volcanic tuffs, that upon metamorphism, became spessartine. Pete Modreski _________________________________________________________________ Explore the seven wonders of the world http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From totis99 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 23 21:11:05 2007 From: totis99 at yahoo.com (teresa otis) Date: Mon Apr 23 21:11:09 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz In-Reply-To: <462D6088.252B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <56807.98784.qm@web36715.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Kreigh, We've always kept several old crockpots on hand for that very purpose. Throw them in, set it on a low temp and leave it for several days (checking periodically of course). Use a non aluminum based strainer (french fry scooper type) to check and drain. When they have reached the clean point you are looking for, neutralize the batch in clean water with baking soda added and then plain water several times. I'm sure you know you would need rubber gloves for handling until after they have been neutralized of the oxalic. Not knowing where you collected the quartz, watch for the cookeite (tiny green balls) and any ankerite(sp) aka mountain leather. Other associated minerals are easier to spot of course. As to the danger, the most common problem is in handling specimens or immersing your hands in the oxalic water. As it was explained to me by someone who experienced the long term result, it will absorb into your system and after enough exposure have an effect on your kidneys and liver. Here's a link to Sweet Surrender Mine that has some explanation on it that may be helpful. http://www.arcrystalmine.com/cleaning.htm Have fun and as always enjoy the end result as much as the hunting! Teresa Otis __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Mon Apr 23 22:45:15 2007 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Mon Apr 23 22:45:41 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz References: <462D6088.252B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <004501c78633$c3757f60$695fe842@Titans> Kreigh, Oxalic Acid works great if you follow the correct mix rate, contact those that sell it for the proper directions. It has been a few years since using the Acid but as I recall : I wear large glasses, and a double diaphragm mask that allows only air through it just to be sure, heating the acid in hot water appears to make it work faster and better, larger amounts did not seem to make much if any difference. Don't forget to stir the mixture up from time to time as I recall the heaviest acid collects on the bottom of your bucket. When called for I have done up to and including 5 gallon buckets almost full of crystals. Good luck.....be safe. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 7:42 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz > I've got a whole bunch of quartz to clean from my recent collecting trip > to Arkansas. > > My first question is whether Oxalic Acid is really as nasty as the MSDS > suggests? I've had experience handling nasty chemicals (mostly in the > lab), but I've never worked with oxalic in bulk. Where is the real line > between reasonable handling precautions (boiling HCl) and paranoia (hot > HF gas)? > > I'm familiar with the process of cleaning individual specimens with > oxalic. My second question is what works in scaling up the process to > clean more than a tablefull of specimens? I don't want to spend months > cleaning them one at a time in a beaker. > > Thanks for sharing your experience! > > Kreigh > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jemstone at amug.org Mon Apr 23 23:48:25 2007 From: jemstone at amug.org (John McLaughlin) Date: Mon Apr 23 23:48:48 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz References: <462D6088.252B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <008e01c7863c$8f4dd170$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> Hi Kreigh, My understanding about the oxalic acid danger is related to why it is used. It's an iron scavenger. It does a great job cleaning iron deposits from crystals and, in a weaker form, can be used to remove rust from fabrics. It penetrates the skin easily and binds to the iron in your blood, causing anemia. I don't think it is very dangerous in the way other acids are hazardous - though hot fumes of any acid are not good. I do not know what amount or length of exposure would create a problem. However, splashing some on one's hands or arms would probably not be a big deal if it was washed off and not repeated often. John McLaughlin Glendale, Arizona ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz > I've got a whole bunch of quartz to clean from my recent collecting trip > to Arkansas. > > My first question is whether Oxalic Acid is really as nasty as the MSDS > suggests? I've had experience handling nasty chemicals (mostly in the > lab), but I've never worked with oxalic in bulk. Where is the real line > between reasonable handling precautions (boiling HCl) and paranoia (hot > HF gas)? From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 11:01:30 2007 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Apr 24 11:01:35 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite... real? Message-ID: <7aac8040704241101h3a8e076g5b5a32b65183d391@mail.gmail.com> "A mineralogist at London's Natural History Museum was contracted to help identify an unknown mineral found in a Serbian mine. While he initially thought the miners had discovered a unique compound, after its crystal structure was analyzed and identified the researcher was shocked to find the material already referenced in literature. Fictional literature." http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/24/1215200 Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From turnea55 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 24 12:42:02 2007 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Tue Apr 24 12:42:05 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz In-Reply-To: <008e01c7863c$8f4dd170$4100a8c0@MCWIDOM> Message-ID: I have been to Arkansas to collect quartz on several occassions now. I use oxalic acid to clean the quartz (as well as any other iron-stained minerals such as barite occassionally). I wouldn't suggest getting it all over you or ingesting it, but I have never had any major issue. I even clean small crystals by putting them in a pot full of acid and water on the stove and heating it up (works much quicker this way). I just make sure I have good ventilation. I put large crystals in a 5-gallon bucket with acid and just leave it outside, checking every week or so on the progress. Oxalic acid is a little uncomfortable if it gets on your arms, but just rinse with water for a minute or so and it's fine. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA USA >From: "John McLaughlin" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz >Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:48:25 -0700 > >Hi Kreigh, > >My understanding about the oxalic acid danger is related to why it is used. >It's an iron scavenger. It does a great job cleaning iron deposits from >crystals and, in a weaker form, can be used to remove rust from fabrics. >It penetrates the skin easily and binds to the iron in your blood, causing >anemia. I don't think it is very dangerous in the way other acids are >hazardous - though hot fumes of any acid are not good. I do not know what >amount or length of exposure would create a problem. However, splashing >some on one's hands or arms would probably not be a big deal if it was >washed off and not repeated often. > >John McLaughlin >Glendale, Arizona > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > >Subject: [Rockhounds] Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz > > >>I've got a whole bunch of quartz to clean from my recent collecting trip >>to Arkansas. >> >>My first question is whether Oxalic Acid is really as nasty as the MSDS >>suggests? I've had experience handling nasty chemicals (mostly in the >>lab), but I've never worked with oxalic in bulk. Where is the real line >>between reasonable handling precautions (boiling HCl) and paranoia (hot >>HF gas)? > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Apr 24 14:59:47 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Apr 24 14:57:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite... real? References: <7aac8040704241101h3a8e076g5b5a32b65183d391@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <462E7D23.5723@Tomaszewski.net> You can see a picture of it at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6584229.stm and it fluoresces pink. Kreigh Drew wrote: > > "A mineralogist at London's Natural History Museum was contracted to help > identify an unknown mineral found in a Serbian mine. While he initially > thought the miners had discovered a unique compound, after its crystal > structure was analyzed and identified the researcher was shocked to find the > material already referenced in literature. Fictional literature." > > http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/24/1215200 > > Drew > From murowchickj at umkc.edu Tue Apr 24 15:12:47 2007 From: murowchickj at umkc.edu (Jim Murowchick) Date: Tue Apr 24 15:12:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite... real? In-Reply-To: <462E7D23.5723@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Maybe it's red kryptonite. Jim On 4/24/07 4:59 PM, "Kreigh Tomaszewski" wrote: > You can see a picture of it at > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6584229.stm > > and it fluoresces pink. > > Kreigh > > > > > Drew wrote: >> >> "A mineralogist at London's Natural History Museum was contracted to help >> identify an unknown mineral found in a Serbian mine. While he initially >> thought the miners had discovered a unique compound, after its crystal >> structure was analyzed and identified the researcher was shocked to find the >> material already referenced in literature. Fictional literature." >> >> http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/24/1215200 >> >> Drew >> From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Apr 25 00:54:21 2007 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Apr 25 00:53:44 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning quartz References: <200704250101.l3P10xtd025495@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001501c7870e$f0bd05c0$6801a8c0@rock6> Cleaning Quartz A lot depends on how much quartz you have to clean. The guys in Arkansas have historically used oxalic acid, which they would buy in 50 to 100 pounds bags. The last time I was involved in this I used bags of Chinese made oxalic acid and we felt that though it got the job done we had to use a lot more of it than with some of the more expensive but American made oxalic. We did not have it tested to find out what its purity was. Most of the cleaning I have done has been with rubber gloves and occasionally bare handing the stuff providing the solution is not to hot (crock pots). The guys in Arkansas would often barehanded the stuff and not have any safety equipment at all and I never heard of a problem, but in today's "chemically correct" environment such procedures would raise the hackles of most recently graduated chemists. Oxalic acid is more poisonous than corrosive. If you ingest it tends to form calcium oxalate crystals in your body and can kill you. I believe this is the active ingredient in oleander sap that in some fictional literature has been used by old ladies to do in their husbands. I believe that oxalic acid is also present in rhubarb leaves and therefore the injunction about never eating rhubarb leaves. I would advise at least wearing gloves in handling the powder and the solution if for no other reason that it is a week acid, at least compared to concentrated HCl, sulfuric etc.and will rough up your skin if you handle a lot of it. You should be careful that the powder does not wind up on your hands and then later find its way to your mouth while eating. However it is not nearly as poisonous as things like sodium cyanide which I have used to clean copper and silver. You will want to keep it away from where children or pets can access the powder, solution or dried up solution. Beakers and crock pots are fine for small quantities. Five gallon plastic pails are good for larger quantities. The guys in Arkansas used everything from old ceramic bathtubs to specially built stainless steel tanks that they could heat in various ways ranging from wood fires to propane burners. The heating is done to increase the speed of the reaction (cleaning time). Five gallon plastic buckets are economical but you can't heat them very much. I found that you can wrap black plastic around them and set them in the sun, and that warms them up quite nicely and increases the speed of the reaction. I would advise the first thing you should do is to clean the specimens as much as you can before you put them in any cleaning reagent. This more than anything else will increase the efficiency of the cleaning, reduce the cleaning time and the amount of oxalic acid you will need to use. A high pressure blast of water is usually fastest and best. If you don't have a high pressure washer, you can go to one of those wash your own car places, pop in some quarters and blast all you quartz clean in a very short period of time. On my last trip to Arkansas the guys were starting to feel the pressure of OSHA and were at least thinking about what they were going to do with the resultant solution when they felt that it had been "used up". Most I think were still dumping it out in the creek, but some were pouring it through containers of marble chips and therefore creating calcium oxalate which is pretty insoluble. They were not clear on what they were going to do with the calcium oxalate created in this way. Why do you want to use oxalic acid? Iron Out is a nice powdered product that you can buy at Wall Mart rather cheaply that will remove iron stains quite nicely and you don't have to deal with the toxicity problem like you do with oxalic acid. You can buy the active ingredient from chemical companies in large quantities if you want and by the addition of a buffering agent which will extend the life of the reagent and cut down on the smell. You can mix up large batches of it quite cheaply. This is called Waller solution and you can find the formula for it on the net at: http://homepage.mac.com/rasprague/PegShop/extras/waller/waller1.html. That is what I would advise you use. Also the Iron Out is good for removing iron stains from a fairly large range of minerals that are too delicate for cleaning with oxalic acid. That is about all we use today for iron stain cleaning. Rock From jpjunk at mc.net Wed Apr 25 01:43:54 2007 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Wed Apr 25 01:44:17 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Cleaning quartz In-Reply-To: <001501c7870e$f0bd05c0$6801a8c0@rock6> References: <200704250101.l3P10xtd025495@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <001501c7870e$f0bd05c0$6801a8c0@rock6> Message-ID: Here's the straight poop from the MSDS, and another, much more cautious, from NIOSH: let's be careful out there. This is a hobby and we don't need to be damaging our bodies to have fun. It all boils down to : don't breath it, eat it, soak in it, let kids play with it, etc. Like gasoline, or alcohol, or darn near anything else, if you mis-use it somebody is likely to get hurt. If you educate yourself and use normal safety precautions, you'll live long and prosper, and maybe even wind up with pretty crystals. I've used the stuff to clean minerals and to bleach wood, but I always wear gloves, goggles and a face mask. I'd really like to keep my lungs, eyes, and kidneys working until I kill myself removing that four inch, doubly terminated, perfectly clear, champaign colored topaz crystal from that pocket just out of reach... MSDS says... Potential Health Effects ---------------------------------- Oxalic acid is corrosive to tissue. When ingested, oxalic acid removes calcium from the blood. Kidney damage can be expected as the calcium is removed from the blood in the form of calcium oxalate. The calcium oxalate then obstructs the kidney tubules. Inhalation: Harmful if inhaled. Can cause severe irritation and burns of nose, throat, and respiratory tract. Ingestion: Toxic! May cause burns, nausea, severe gastroenteritis and vomiting, shock and convulsions. May cause renal damage, as evidenced by bloody urine. Estimate fatal dose is 5 to 15 grams. Skin Contact: Can cause severe irritation, possible skin burns. May be absorbed through the skin. Eye Contact: Oxalic acid is an eye irritant. It may produce corrosive effects. Chronic Exposure: May cause inflammation of the upper respiratory tract. Prolonged skin contact can cause dermatitis, cyanosis of the fingers and possible ulceration. May affect kidneys. Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions: Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems, or impaired kidney or respiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects of the substance. From the Brits: Principal hazards Oxalic acid can cause burns to the skin, although, as a weak acid the burns are likely to be less serious than those caused by strong solutions of mineral acids. Oxalic acid may be harmful if you swallow or inhale it. Safe handling Safety glasses. Emergency Eye contact: Immediately flush the eye with plenty of water. If irritation persists call for medical help. Skin contact: Wash off with water. If the solid is in contact with the skin for a long period, burns may develop. If swallowed: Wash out the mouth with water if the patient is conscious. Oxalic acid is probably harmful if swallowed, so if the amount swallowed is more than a trivial quantity, seek medical help. Disposal Small amounts of oxalic acid can be flushed down a sink with a large quantity of water, unless local rules prohibit this. Large amounts should be neutralised before disposal. Protective equipment Safety glasses. Gloves are not generally required, but if they are to be worn most types of gloves material (e.g., nitrile, butyl rubber, neoprene or PVC) are suitable. PVA gloves are not suitable for handling oxalic acid or its solutions. Further information Oxalic acid dihydrate Chemicals in the HSci database More extensive safety data International Chemical Safety Cards OXALIC ACID ICSC: 0529 ? ? ? ? ? Ethanedioic acid C2H2O4 / (COOH)2 Molecular mass: 90.04 ICSC # 0529 CAS # 144-62-7 RTECS # RO2450000 EC # 607-006-00-8 March 28, 1996 Peer reviewed TYPES OF HAZARD/ EXPOSURE ACUTE HAZARDS/ SYMPTOMS PREVENTION FIRST AID/ FIRE FIGHTING FIRE Combustible. Gives off irritating or toxic fumes (or gases) in a fire. NO open flames. Powder, alcohol-resistant foam, water spray, carbon dioxide. EXPLOSION In case of fire: keep drums, etc., cool by spraying with water. EXPOSURE AVOID ALL CONTACT! IN ALL CASES CONSULT A DOCTOR! ?INHALATION Sore throat. Cough. Burning sensation. Shortness of breath. Laboured breathing. Symptoms may be delayed (see Notes). Local exhaust or breathing protection. Fresh air, rest. Half-upright position. Artificial respiration if indicated. Refer for medical attention. ?SKIN Redness. Skin burns. Pain. Blisters. Protective clothing. First rinse with plenty of water, then remove contaminated clothes and rinse again. Refer for medical attention. ?EYES Redness. Pain. Loss of vision. Severe deep burns. Face shield, or eye protection in combination with breathing protection if powder. First rinse with plenty of water for several minutes (remove contact lenses if easily possible), then take to a doctor. ?INGESTION Sore throat. Burning sensation. Abdominal pain. Vomiting. Drowsiness. Shock or collapse. Convulsions. Do not eat, drink, or smoke during work. Wash hands before eating. Rinse mouth. Rest. Refer for medical attention. SPILLAGE DISPOSAL STORAGE PACKAGING & LABELLING Sweep spilled substance into plastic containers; if appropriate, moisten first to prevent dusting. Carefully collect remainder, then remove to safe place. (Extra personal protection: P2 filter respirator for harmful particles). Separated from strong oxidants, food and feedstuffs. Dry. Do not transport with food and feedstuffs. Xn symbol R: 21/22 S: 2-24/25 SEE IMPORTANT INFORMATION ON BACK ICSC: 0529 Prepared in the context of cooperation between the International Programme on Chemical Safety & the Commission of the European Communities (C) IPCS CEC 1994. No modifications to the International version have been made except to add the OSHA PELs, NIOSH RELs and NIOSH IDLH values. International Chemical Safety Cards OXALIC ACID ICSC: 0529 I M P O R T A N T D A T A PHYSICAL STATE; APPEARANCE: COLOURLESS CRYSTALS OR WHITE POWDER. PHYSICAL DANGERS: CHEMICAL DANGERS: On contact with hot surfaces or flames this substance decomposes forming formic acid and carbon monoxide. The solution in water is a medium strong acid. Reacts violently with strong oxidants causing fire and explosion hazard. Reacts with some silver compounds to form explosive silver oxalate. OCCUPATIONAL EXPOSURE LIMITS: TLV: 1 mg/m3; 2 mg/m3 (STEL) (ACGIH 1995-1996). OSHA PEL?: TWA 1 mg/m3 NIOSH REL: TWA 1 mg/m3 ST 2 mg/m3 NIOSH IDLH: 500 mg/m3 See: 144627 ROUTES OF EXPOSURE: The substance can be absorbed into the body by inhalation of its aerosol and by ingestion. INHALATION RISK: Evaporation at 20?C is negligible; a harmful concentration of airborne particles can, however, be reached quickly if powdered. EFFECTS OF SHORT-TERM EXPOSURE: Corrosive. The substance is corrosive to the eyes, the skin and the respiratory tract. Corrosive on ingestion. Inhalation of aerosol may cause lung oedema (see Notes). The substance may cause effects on the kidneys. Exposure far above the OEL may result in death. Medical observation is indicated. EFFECTS OF LONG-TERM OR REPEATED EXPOSURE: Repeated or prolonged contact with skin may cause dermatitis. The substance may have effects on the kidneys , resulting in stones. PHYSICAL PROPERTIES Sublimation point: 157?C Melting point (decomposes): 189.5?C Relative density (water = 1): 1.9 Solubility in water: moderate Octanol/water partition coefficient as log Pow: -0.7 (estimated) ENVIRONMENTAL DATA N O T E S The symptoms of lung oedema often do not become manifest until a few hours have passed and they are aggravated by physical effort. Rest and medical observation are therefore essential. Immediate administration of an appropriate spray, by a doctor or a person authorized by him/her, should be considered. Do NOT use in the vicinity of a fire or a hot surface, or during welding. NFPA Code: H3; F1; R0; ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ICSC: 0529 OXALIC ACID (C) IPCS, CEC, 1994 IMPORTANT LEGAL NOTICE: Neither NIOSH, the CEC or the IPCS nor any person acting on behalf of NIOSH, the CEC or the IPCS is responsible for the use which might be made of this information. This card contains the collective views of the IPCS Peer Review Committee and may not reflect in all cases all the detailed requirements included in national legislation on the subject. The user should verify compliance of the cards with the relevant legislation in the country of use. The only modifications made to produce the U.S. version is inclusion of the OSHA PELs, NIOSH RELs and NIOSH IDLH values. Keep on rockin' John ? On Apr 25, 2007, at 2:54 AM, Rock Currier wrote: > Cleaning Quartz > A lot depends on how much quartz you have to clean. The guys in > Arkansas > have historically used oxalic acid, which they would buy in 50 to > 100 pounds > bags. The last time I was involved in this I used bags of Chinese made > oxalic acid and we felt that though it got the job done we had to > use a lot > more of it than with some of the more expensive but American made > oxalic. We > did not have it tested to find out what its purity was. Most of the > cleaning > I have done has been with rubber gloves and occasionally bare > handing the > stuff providing the solution is not to hot (crock pots). The guys in > Arkansas would often barehanded the stuff and not have any safety > equipment > at all and I never heard of a problem, but in today's "chemically > correct" > environment such procedures would raise the hackles of most recently > graduated chemists. > Oxalic acid is more poisonous than corrosive. If you ingest it > tends to > form calcium oxalate crystals in your body and can kill you. I > believe this > is the active ingredient in oleander sap that in some fictional > literature > has been used by old ladies to do in their husbands. I believe that > oxalic > acid is also present in rhubarb leaves and therefore the injunction > about > never eating rhubarb leaves. I would advise at least wearing gloves in > handling the powder and the solution if for no other reason that it > is a > week acid, at least compared to concentrated HCl, sulfuric etc.and > will > rough up your skin if you handle a lot of it. You should be careful > that the > powder does not wind up on your hands and then later find its way > to your > mouth while eating. However it is not nearly as poisonous as things > like > sodium cyanide which I have used to clean copper and silver. You > will want > to keep it away from where children or pets can access the powder, > solution > or dried up solution. > Beakers and crock pots are fine for small quantities. Five gallon > plastic > pails are good for larger quantities. The guys in Arkansas used > everything > from old ceramic bathtubs to specially built stainless steel tanks > that they > could heat in various ways ranging from wood fires to propane > burners. The > heating is done to increase the speed of the reaction (cleaning > time). Five > gallon plastic buckets are economical but you can't heat them very > much. I > found that you can wrap black plastic around them and set them in > the sun, > and that warms them up quite nicely and increases the speed of the > reaction. > I would advise the first thing you should do is to clean the > specimens > as much as you can before you put them in any cleaning reagent. > This more > than anything else will increase the efficiency of the cleaning, > reduce the > cleaning time and the amount of oxalic acid you will need to use. A > high > pressure blast of water is usually fastest and best. If you don't > have a > high pressure washer, you can go to one of those wash your own car > places, > pop in some quarters and blast all you quartz clean in a very short > period > of time. > On my last trip to Arkansas the guys were starting to feel the > pressure > of OSHA and were at least thinking about what they were going to do > with the > resultant solution when they felt that it had been "used up". Most > I think > were still dumping it out in the creek, but some were pouring it > through > containers of marble chips and therefore creating calcium oxalate > which is > pretty insoluble. They were not clear on what they were going to do > with the > calcium oxalate created in this way. > Why do you want to use oxalic acid? Iron Out is a nice powdered > product > that you can buy at Wall Mart rather cheaply that will remove iron > stains > quite nicely and you don't have to deal with the toxicity problem > like you > do with oxalic acid. You can buy the active ingredient from chemical > companies in large quantities if you want and by the addition of a > buffering > agent which will extend the life of the reagent and cut down on the > smell. > You can mix up large batches of it quite cheaply. This is called > Waller > solution and you can find the formula for it on the net at: > http://homepage.mac.com/rasprague/PegShop/extras/waller/ > waller1.html. That > is what I would advise you use. Also the Iron Out is good for > removing iron > stains from a fairly large range of minerals that are too delicate for > cleaning with oxalic acid. That is about all we use today for iron > stain > cleaning. > Rock > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html image/gif image/gif image/gif image/gif image/gif image/gif --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Apr 25 07:45:15 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Apr 25 07:45:20 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: MasMils/PLUS on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <462E7D23.5723@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <011601c78748$5652a3c0$6b01a8c0@okapi> Hi all... eBay had another one of their cheapie listing days so I've got a bunch of the MasMils/PLUS disks up on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130105503412 Thanks! Gary PS. I've been doing a lot a glasswork lately. See the OTHER side of me at: http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=122570 From JHODEL at wvdep.org Wed Apr 25 08:25:36 2007 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Wed Apr 25 08:25:52 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite Message-ID: Hi: I guess everyone on the list has seen the great news, but here's a tiny quote: Kryptonite found in Serbian mine When mineralogist Dr. Chris Stanely of London's Natural History Museum did a Web search on the chemical formula of a recently-discovered unusual mineral, he was shocked to find out that the rock is Kryptonite. The mineral, found in a Serbian mine by the company Rio Tinto, consists of the same chemicals as fictional Kryptonite as described in the film Superman Returns. From the BBC News: "Towards the end of my research I searched the web using the mineral's chemical formula - sodium lithium boron silicate hydroxide - and was amazed to discover that same scientific name, written on a case of rock containing kryptonite stolen by Lex Luther from a museum in the film Superman Returns. "The new mineral does not contain fluorine (which it does in the film) and is white rather than green but, in all other respects, the chemistry matches that for the rock containing kryptonite..." The mineral cannot be called kryptonite under international nomenclature rules because it has nothing to do with krypton - a real element in the Periodic Table that takes the form of a gas. I think the "international nomenclature rules" won't apply, because kryptonite was described and named before the date the rules went into effect, therefore it should be grandfathered in, just like the old minerals, for example, sulfur, which in the new nomenclature would be named sulfurite, or something like that... What do you all think about this...shouldn't it be grandfathered? After all it was named and described more than 50 years ago! Wasn't it? I don't know what to think about the missing fluorine, tho, maybe just a notation error? JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Apr 25 09:08:40 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Apr 25 09:08:04 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <462F7D08.6020605@verizon.net> J.R. Hodel wrote: > Hi: > > What do you all think about this...shouldn't it be grandfathered? NO. The person who describes it has the sole privilege of naming it. It wasn't described in the sense that the fictional material has no crystal structure, optical properties, etc. Chemically it isn't even exactly the same and the appearance isn't either. > After all it was named and described more than 50 years ago! Wasn't it? > I don't know what to think about the missing fluorine, tho, maybe just > a notation error? > > JR > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- From territoones1 at ameritech.net Wed Apr 25 12:56:57 2007 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Wed Apr 25 12:57:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: MasMils/PLUS on eBay In-Reply-To: <011601c78748$5652a3c0$6b01a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <53773.70200.qm@web81701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Gary, I saw the glasswork on the link you sent to us at The list. I was interested in the blue/Tourquise plate. How much do one of those costs? TJ --- Gary Brown wrote: > Hi all... > > eBay had another one of their cheapie listing days > so I've got a bunch of > the MasMils/PLUS disks up on eBay: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130105503412 > > Thanks! > > Gary > > PS. I've been doing a lot a glasswork lately. See > the OTHER side of me at: > > http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=122570 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Apr 25 13:09:12 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Apr 25 13:09:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: MasMils/PLUS on eBay In-Reply-To: <53773.70200.qm@web81701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <011601c78748$5652a3c0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <53773.70200.qm@web81701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <016501c78775$97d39de0$6b01a8c0@okapi> Can you give me the exact title of the piece? There are a couple of blue green beasties in there... Thanks! Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > teresa jetter > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 2:57 PM > To: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A > mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] AD: MasMils/PLUS on eBay > > Hi Gary, > I saw the glasswork on the link you sent to us at The list. > > I was interested in the blue/Tourquise plate. > How much do one of those costs? > TJ From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Apr 25 13:15:47 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Apr 25 13:15:53 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: MasMils/PLUS on eBay In-Reply-To: <016501c78775$97d39de0$6b01a8c0@okapi> References: <011601c78748$5652a3c0$6b01a8c0@okapi><53773.70200.qm@web81701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <016501c78775$97d39de0$6b01a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <016701c78776$83595930$6b01a8c0@okapi> Ooops... Sorry guys, that should have gone out as a private message. Mea Culpa! GcB From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Apr 25 15:52:54 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Apr 25 15:46:44 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite References: Message-ID: <462FDA49.5715@Tomaszewski.net> J.R. Hodel wrote: > I think the "international nomenclature rules" won't apply, because > kryptonite was described and named before the date the rules went into > effect, therefore it should be grandfathered in, just like the old > minerals, for example, sulfur, which in the new nomenclature would be > named sulfurite, or something like that... > > What do you all think about this...shouldn't it be grandfathered? > After all it was named and described more than 50 years ago! Wasn't it? > I don't know what to think about the missing fluorine, tho, maybe just > a notation error? > > JR > The discoverer gets the honor of naming it. I suspect a lot of specimens are going to be labeled 'Jadarite var. Kryptonite' once they become available. Kreigh From minnesota_pebble_pup at yahoo.com Thu Apr 26 00:36:19 2007 From: minnesota_pebble_pup at yahoo.com (minnesota_pebble_pup) Date: Thu Apr 26 00:36:22 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite In-Reply-To: <462FDA49.5715@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <240151.49952.qm@web32607.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > The discoverer gets the honor of naming it. I > suspect a lot of specimens > are going to be labeled 'Jadarite var. Kryptonite' > once they become > available. > > Kreigh http://www.mindat.org/show.php?id=6682 heehee. It has to be real if it's in MinDat! Jonna __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From info at rkgems.com Thu Apr 26 02:13:24 2007 From: info at rkgems.com (Information) Date: Thu Apr 26 02:14:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] -AD: Jade (Jadeite) - Rough Material In-Reply-To: <000901c787e2$b19b6ba0$4c91413a@rizwan4229f725> Message-ID: <001001c787e3$2fa70770$4c91413a@rizwan4229f725> Hello and greetings to the group May Peace and blessings be upon you all, This comes as an announcement and news of interest for all those interested in Jade related news. I would like to take this opportunity to introduce R&K Gemming Company. We are gemstones dealers from Pakistan located in Peshawar, the trade hub for minerals and precious stones. We recently discovered sources for the subject material - Jade (Jadeite). We have started to extract material from the source and the rough is available for inspection on a very reasonable location. Our Team will escort all interested parties to inspect the material first hand and make offer if they prefer the rough. We will assist the buyer to export the material to the place of interest. Please inform us of your need if any. Our Company can assist you arrange your visit to Pakistan and will make sure that all the necessary requirements like; hotel, transportation, pick and drop, food etc are sorted and you have a comfortable stay here. We look forward for hearing from you Best Regards Rizwan Mob: 0092-333-9261473 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From territoones1 at ameritech.net Thu Apr 26 07:50:47 2007 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Thu Apr 26 07:50:50 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] -AD: Jade (Jadeite) - Rough Material In-Reply-To: <001001c787e3$2fa70770$4c91413a@rizwan4229f725> Message-ID: <552645.34198.qm@web81712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> HI, responding to your note on Jade (Jadeite), do you have photo's of your product, and can you send a link to your site, or Pdf's that we can view. TJ --- Information wrote: > Hello and greetings to the group > May Peace and blessings be upon you all, > > This comes as an announcement and news of interest > for all those > interested in Jade related news. > > I would like to take this opportunity to introduce > R&K Gemming Company. > We are gemstones dealers from Pakistan located in > Peshawar, the trade > hub for minerals and precious stones. > > We recently discovered sources for the subject > material - Jade > (Jadeite). We have started to extract material from > the source and the > rough is available for inspection on a very > reasonable location. > > Our Team will escort all interested parties to > inspect the material > first hand and make offer if they prefer the rough. > > We will assist the buyer to export the material to > the place of > interest. > > Please inform us of your need if any. > > Our Company can assist you arrange your visit to > Pakistan and will make > sure that all the necessary requirements like; > hotel, transportation, > pick and drop, food etc are sorted and you have a > comfortable stay here. > > We look forward for hearing from you > > Best Regards > > Rizwan > Mob: 0092-333-9261473 > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From JHODEL at wvdep.org Thu Apr 26 08:16:09 2007 From: JHODEL at wvdep.org (J.R. Hodel) Date: Thu Apr 26 08:16:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite ;) Message-ID: Hi: Well, really, I was joking, maybe I should have included more clues to that fact, ;-) or something. But it is cool, that a made-up mineral from a comic book would (nearly) turn up in real life 60 years (or so) later. KoR everybody! JR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From minnesota_pebble_pup at yahoo.com Thu Apr 26 08:45:03 2007 From: minnesota_pebble_pup at yahoo.com (minnesota_pebble_pup) Date: Thu Apr 26 08:45:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite ;) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <545740.82884.qm@web32610.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- "J.R. Hodel" wrote: > Hi: > > Well, really, I was joking, maybe I should have > included more clues to > that fact, ;-) or something. But it is cool, that a > made-up mineral > from a comic book would (nearly) turn up in real > life 60 years (or so) > later. > > KoR everybody! > JR I think someone else was joking too when they added Kryptonite to MinDat, the little paragraph in the warning section is sure to give a grin. When this topic first came up I was wondering if I hadn't read something somewhere so I looked it up. I looked at a couple other mineral datas and it wasn't listed in those. Yes, it is fascinating. It's interesting that there are still minerals being discovered. This old planet is full of surprizes and it hasn't begun to give away it's secrets. Jonna __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From pmodreski at aol.com Thu Apr 26 09:51:13 2007 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 26 09:51:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite In-Reply-To: <462FDA49.5715@Tomaszewski.net> References: <462FDA49.5715@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <8C9563A3BA37D9A-B74-38FA@mblk-d49.sysops.aol.com> I can't resist a couple of comments too, about comparing a real new mineral to the fictional kryptonite. But I must say that my first reaction when I read this was, this is all really silly, because how could some mineral that is a sodium lithium etc. silicate, be "kryptonite", because, to have its properties of knocking out Superman, kryptonite has got to be some new radioactive ELEMENT, not just a mineral that is a combination of known elements! Keeping in mind here, of course, that we're just trying to make "science fiction" be reasonably consistent with "science". But it's fun to do. And of course, I'm not knocking the scientists who made the new mineral discovery, I'm knocking the people who labeled the kryptonite that way in the 1980 "Superman Returns" movie! They sure must not have known much about physics and chemistry! I found a very good article about "kryptonite" on, naturally, Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryptonite which even includes a picture of the cover of an Action Comic issue from March 1964, showing a display case with 5 (!) different color varieties of kryptonite (plus a new gem variety that Jimmy Olsen is about to show to Sup, the dummy, keep it away from him!). This is, of course, NOT the display case with "sodium aluminum boron silicate..." label, because again, that only came in the 1980 movie, we are told. I'll let you all browse the Wikipedia site and see what it says, for those who wish; it's got EVERYTHING you'd ever want to know about kryptonite! And it does explain that it seems that in the movie, the material that was found on earth (in Addis Abbaba) appears in fact to have been a "rock", that had the composition cited, 'Sodium lithium boron silicate hydroxide with fluorine' that CONTAINED kryptonite which could be extracted from it, not that "was" kryptonite. So it sounds like all this is getting rocks, minerals, and elements mixed up. Well, what the heck, it's all for fun anyway. And it's cool that the researchers found a mineral like this in Serbia--too bad, no fluorine, though. That must be the special variety found only in Ethiopia, that contains the kryptonite as a trace element. And I'll bet that the trace content of kryptonite makes it fluoresce bright green! And now, a couple of other minerals come close to the right composition but aren't quite there; the lithium-bearing tourmalines, elbaite and olenite, contain Na-Li-B-Si but also lots of aluminum. I guess that's about all I can have to say about all that. Best wishes to all, Pete Modreski -----Original Message----- To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite... ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Apr 26 10:25:05 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Apr 26 10:24:14 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite ;) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4630E071.4020704@verizon.net> J.R. Hodel wrote: > Hi: > > Well, really, I was joking, Howdy, Well I was moody yesterday and had been having some academic debates about such things and nomenclature and chemical formula arrangements, and then this came up... I had a feeling you were joking but I wanted to make the "official" position clear for any readers that might not know the difference. I did think it was very funny. As Pete pointed out, I can't imagine where the makers of the movie got that formula, and just like with Star Trek's "dilithium," I was always under the impression that kryptonite was some sort of fictional material, whether it be a new element or an exotic compound. What's really neat--at least in my mind--is that I just took a class in x-ray analysis with someone who did, in fact, predict a new mineral based upon the chemistry and structure of other minerals in that group. When someone later discovered that mineral in nature, they named it after him. (I also found out last night I got an A in his class, which is hard to do, so I am much happier today, since I was very anxious about it, after all the work I put into the class). Anyway I thought this "real life" story of a predicted mineral and its later discovery would be interesting to the people who like the kryptonite story. Well it's time to go take the kiddies on a field trip--unfortunately the most exciting thing we'll find are huge feldspar crystals in a gold-bearing syenite, but then again, classroom mineralogy is usually not as fun as hobby mineral collecting! At least we get to walk through the tall pines near bubbling streams and watch the students get excited as they see flecks of chalcopyrite in matrix and think it's gold. Later, Don From tim at orerockon.com Thu Apr 26 16:59:18 2007 From: tim at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Apr 26 16:57:29 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: OreRockOn on DVD List Special In-Reply-To: <200704101213.l3ACDBqc029340@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200704100102.l3A12CdV005353@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <001d01c77b43$75e5d3d0$6801a8c0@rock6> <200704101213.l3ACDBqc029340@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <200704262357.l3QNvR1q019216@bubbleator.drizzle.com> This special is just for members of the following discussion lists: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com, PetrifiedWood@yahoogroups.com, paleolist@notkin.net From now (Thurs April 26) through next Monday April 30, my DVD on Pacific NW Rockhounding is on sale for 25% off ($33.75) + either Media Mail ($1.59) or Priority Mail ($4.10) shipping. You must use one of the Paypal links below to get the discount price. Copy and paste the entire link into your browser or it will not work. This offer applies only to the DVD Version 4.0, not the CD version. The DVD contains 625 detailed 1:24,000 scale collecting area maps, 2,022 GPS waypoints, 35 site writeups, and 212 1:100,000 scale Land Ownership maps for each collecting area. There are many new locations (from Version 3) including hundreds of new fossil collecting localities all over the Pacific Northwest. Locations include plenty of lapidary materials, minerals, and fossils alike. Read more at http://orerockon.com/CD.htm Click the link or copy and paste it into your browser to order the OreRockOn Dig Locations DVD for 25% off now through April 30, 2007: DVD With Media Mail Shipping: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=paypal%40orerockon%2ecom&undefined_quantity=1&item_name=OreRockOn%20On%20DVD%20WITH%20MEDIA%20MAIL%20SHIPPING&amount=35%2e34&page_style=Primary&no_shipping=2&return=http%3a%2f%2forerockon%2ecom%2fOnline%20Order%2ehtm¤cy_code=USD&lc=US DVD With USPS Priority Mail Shipping: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=paypal%40orerockon%2ecom&undefined_quantity=1&item_name=OreRockOn%20On%20DVD%20WITH%20USPS%20PRIORITY%20MAIL%20SHIPPING&amount=37%2e85&page_style=Primary&no_shipping=2&return=http%3a%2f%2forerockon%2ecom%2fOnline%20Order%2ehtm¤cy_code=USD&lc=US Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! nospam@OreRockOn.com Find out more at: http://OreRockOn.com/CD From territoones1 at ameritech.net Thu Apr 26 18:24:31 2007 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Thu Apr 26 18:24:34 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: OreRockOn on DVD List Special In-Reply-To: <200704262357.l3QNvR1q019216@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <610302.21382.qm@web81708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Liked your site! Will talk to hubby and check out your CD. tj --- Tim Fisher wrote: > This special is just for members of the following > discussion lists: > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com, > PetrifiedWood@yahoogroups.com, > paleolist@notkin.net > > From now (Thurs April 26) through next Monday April > 30, my DVD on > Pacific NW Rockhounding is on sale for 25% off > ($33.75) + either > Media Mail ($1.59) or Priority Mail ($4.10) > shipping. You must use > one of the Paypal links below to get the discount > price. Copy and > paste the entire link into your browser or it will > not work. This > offer applies only to the DVD Version 4.0, not the > CD version. > > The DVD contains 625 detailed 1:24,000 scale > collecting area maps, > 2,022 GPS waypoints, 35 site writeups, and 212 > 1:100,000 scale Land > Ownership maps for each collecting area. There are > many new locations > (from Version 3) including hundreds of new fossil > collecting > localities all over the Pacific Northwest. Locations > include plenty > of lapidary materials, minerals, and fossils alike. > > Read more at http://orerockon.com/CD.htm > > Click the link or copy and paste it into your > browser to order the > OreRockOn Dig Locations DVD for 25% off now through > April 30, 2007: > > DVD With Media Mail Shipping: > > https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=paypal%40orerockon%2ecom&undefined_quantity=1&item_name=OreRockOn%20On%20DVD%20WITH%20MEDIA%20MAIL%20SHIPPING&amount=35%2e34&page_style=Primary&no_shipping=2&return=http%3a%2f%2forerockon%2ecom%2fOnline%20Order%2ehtm¤cy_code=USD&lc=US > > DVD With USPS Priority Mail Shipping: > > https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=paypal%40orerockon%2ecom&undefined_quantity=1&item_name=OreRockOn%20On%20DVD%20WITH%20USPS%20PRIORITY%20MAIL%20SHIPPING&amount=37%2e85&page_style=Primary&no_shipping=2&return=http%3a%2f%2forerockon%2ecom%2fOnline%20Order%2ehtm¤cy_code=USD&lc=US > > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > nospam@OreRockOn.com > Find out more at: http://OreRockOn.com/CD > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Apr 26 20:42:39 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Apr 26 20:39:20 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz References: <462D6088.252B@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <46317059.4540@Tomaszewski.net> My thanks to all who responded to my questions, on and off list. The experience you shared has been very helpful. I can deal with toxic, and avoid direct exposure, using reasonable precautions. I have my first (protected) 5 gal. bucket soaking outside, in sunlight, to get a better handle on bulk cleaning and its timing. Thanks again for your help! Kreigh Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > I've got a whole bunch of quartz to clean from my recent collecting trip > to Arkansas. > > My first question is whether Oxalic Acid is really as nasty as the MSDS > suggests? I've had experience handling nasty chemicals (mostly in the > lab), but I've never worked with oxalic in bulk. Where is the real line > between reasonable handling precautions (boiling HCl) and paranoia (hot > HF gas)? > > I'm familiar with the process of cleaning individual specimens with > oxalic. My second question is what works in scaling up the process to > clean more than a tablefull of specimens? I don't want to spend months > cleaning them one at a time in a beaker. > > Thanks for sharing your experience! > > Kreigh From brenick at gmail.com Fri Apr 27 08:19:03 2007 From: brenick at gmail.com (Nick & Brenda Van Dyke) Date: Fri Apr 27 08:19:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz In-Reply-To: <46317059.4540@Tomaszewski.net> References: <462D6088.252B@Tomaszewski.net> <46317059.4540@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <97175ae90704270819g717f13e5jf6dc3deb981c34b2@mail.gmail.com> you have sunshine!? lucky man! On 4/26/07, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > My thanks to all who responded to my questions, on and off list. The > experience you shared has been very helpful. I can deal with toxic, and > avoid direct exposure, using reasonable precautions. I have my first > (protected) 5 gal. bucket soaking outside, in sunlight, to get a better > handle on bulk cleaning and its timing. > > Thanks again for your help! > > Kreigh > > > > > > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > I've got a whole bunch of quartz to clean from my recent collecting trip > > to Arkansas. > > > > My first question is whether Oxalic Acid is really as nasty as the MSDS > > suggests? I've had experience handling nasty chemicals (mostly in the > > lab), but I've never worked with oxalic in bulk. Where is the real line > > between reasonable handling precautions (boiling HCl) and paranoia (hot > > HF gas)? > > > > I'm familiar with the process of cleaning individual specimens with > > oxalic. My second question is what works in scaling up the process to > > clean more than a tablefull of specimens? I don't want to spend months > > cleaning them one at a time in a beaker. > > > > Thanks for sharing your experience! > > > > Kreigh > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Apr 27 17:53:02 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Apr 27 17:53:15 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz References: <462D6088.252B@Tomaszewski.net> <46317059.4540@Tomaszewski.net> <97175ae90704270819g717f13e5jf6dc3deb981c34b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46329AEB.5090@Tomaszewski.net> On some days, like today, my sunshine is a bit diffused from all the clouds, but at least we're seeing sunshine. Better than a few months ago when we were going to and from work in the snow and the dark. Spring is finally here. Kreigh Nick & Brenda Van Dyke wrote: > > you have sunshine!? lucky man! > > On 4/26/07, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > > My thanks to all who responded to my questions, on and off list. The > > experience you shared has been very helpful. I can deal with toxic, and > > avoid direct exposure, using reasonable precautions. I have my first > > (protected) 5 gal. bucket soaking outside, in sunlight, to get a From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Apr 27 20:58:15 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Apr 27 20:58:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz Message-ID: We have some quartz crystal we collected at a mine near LaGrange, Ga and are yet to clean the ones with a whitish patina. Not even a large plastic bowl half full. Should I try muriatic acid first? And if sunshine helps, we have highs of about 80 and lows near 60 and are under a high pressure system this weekend. Glenn On 4/26/07, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: My thanks to all who responded to my questions, on and off list. The experience you shared has been very helpful. I can deal with toxic, and avoid direct exposure, using reasonable precautions. I have my first (protected) 5 gal. bucket soaking outside, in sunlight, to get a _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy! http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Apr 28 03:52:53 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Apr 28 03:52:50 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz In-Reply-To: <46329AEB.5090@Tomaszewski.net> References: <462D6088.252B@Tomaszewski.net> <46317059.4540@Tomaszewski.net><97175ae90704270819g717f13e5jf6dc3deb981c34b2@mail.gmail.com> <46329AEB.5090@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000601c78983$5f64a160$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Kreigh wrote > On some days, like today, my sunshine is a bit diffused from > all the clouds, but at least we're seeing sunshine. Better > than a few months ago when we were going to and from work in > the snow and the dark. Spring is finally here. No, summer is here... We have been sweating in temperatures from 24? up to 30?C for two weeks now. Last Theusday we ate in our garden and stayed there until 1 AM. It has not rained here yet this month. April 2007 will go in the history books as the dryest... Wheather man says at least 5 records will be pulverized. Tropical Belgium? Next we'll be brewing palmbeer ;-))) Did three quarries last Sunday... Brought home 1 fluorite crystal of about 2 mm , some minute aragonite (Resteigne) and some fluorescing calcite (Beez) that is also too small to make a display... Small country, small minerals? ;-))) Cheers Axel From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Apr 28 16:02:40 2007 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Apr 28 16:02:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] pixie mine turquoise Message-ID: Hello, Several months ago someone inquired about the green turquoise from the Pixie Mine in Nevada. I've found the business card and phone number for Fox Mining, the company I bought my turquoise from. My understanding is they owned or had a lease on the Pixie. Contact me off list for their number. I have about 8 ounces of green Pixie turquoise on my table and several pounds in a box in my rock room. If the interested person can't get it from the source I would be willing to sell a small amount. Grant From jeanne at jeannius.com Sun Apr 29 08:23:13 2007 From: jeanne at jeannius.com (Jeanne Rhodes-Moen) Date: Sun Apr 29 08:23:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] yeah, sure it's amber! Message-ID: <4634B861.2040808@jeannius.com> thought you might be amused by this ebay auction...someone claiming this is an authentic baltic amber w/ a full sized, perfectly preserved Butterfly in it...gee...not surprisingly, this is coming out of china! http://cgi.ebay.com/butterfly-FOSSIL-INSECT-LARGE-GENUINE-BALTIC-AMBER_W0QQitemZ190105062058QQihZ009QQcategoryZ3214QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem in case the link doesn't come through, it's item nr 190105062058 Jeanne -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *My Jewelry:* *http://www.jeannius.com* *Silver Threads, Making Wire Filigree Jewelry(Book):* *http://www.silverthreadsfiligree.com* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* *Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com* *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Sun Apr 29 09:49:38 2007 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (MICHAEL SCHMIDT) Date: Sun Apr 29 09:49:40 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] yeah, sure it's amber! In-Reply-To: <4634B861.2040808@jeannius.com> References: <4634B861.2040808@jeannius.com> Message-ID: look at the rest of his auctions. clearly, the guy is simply hocking any crap he can find, and doesn't know the first things about geology/gemology/jewellery/paleontology Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeanne Rhodes-Moen Date: Sunday, April 29, 2007 9:23 am Subject: [Rockhounds] yeah, sure it's amber! > thought you might be amused by this ebay auction...someone > claiming this > is an authentic baltic amber w/ a full sized, perfectly preserved > Butterfly in it...gee...not surprisingly, this is coming out of china! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/butterfly-FOSSIL-INSECT-LARGE-GENUINE-BALTIC- > AMBER_W0QQitemZ190105062058QQihZ009QQcategoryZ3214QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > in case the link doesn't come through, it's item nr 190105062058 > > Jeanne > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > *My Jewelry:* *http://www.jeannius.com* > > *Silver Threads, Making Wire Filigree Jewelry(Book):* > > *http://www.silverthreadsfiligree.com* > > *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* > > *Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com* > > *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Sun Apr 29 11:05:25 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sun Apr 29 11:04:35 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] yeah, sure it's amber! (and turquoise??) In-Reply-To: References: <4634B861.2040808@jeannius.com> Message-ID: <4634DE65.9040404@verizon.net> MICHAEL SCHMIDT wrote: > look at the rest of his auctions. Hi, This brings up a related question. Is there such a thing as "white turquoise?" There are a number of Chinese vendors selling what looks to me like howlite beads, and for that matter, some blue and yellow "turquoise" that also look like dyed howlite. They also sell what appear to be epoxy blocks of reconstituted turquoise, and when I asked specifically if they were epoxy blocks, he said they were natural. I can't paint all these vendors with the same broad brush, but since a lot of their items are spammed into my daily searches, I see a fair amount of this dubious material. I would imagine that some of these vendors just don't get the difference and don't care, and some are outright frauds. So I'll issue the bi-annual warning to list members who might not have seen it before, but eBay is the wild west. Be very careful when buying mineral & gem materials on eBay, and if you don't know, ask. best, Don From jeanne at jeannius.com Sun Apr 29 11:33:55 2007 From: jeanne at jeannius.com (Jeanne Rhodes-Moen) Date: Sun Apr 29 11:34:03 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] yeah, sure it's amber! (and turquoise??) In-Reply-To: <4634DE65.9040404@verizon.net> References: <4634B861.2040808@jeannius.com> <4634DE65.9040404@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4634E513.5080509@jeannius.com> here's a story about white turquoise: http://www.vcnevada.com/Y&TLtd/page7.html and something from mindat.org about it: http://www.mindat.org/min-9845.html and this site explains several of the "turquoises" http://www.lantanadesignwear.com/turquoise.htm And last, but not least, an Orchid discussion on Yellow Turquoise http://www.ganoksin.com/orchid/archive/200501/msg01330.htm Jeanne DonH wrote: > MICHAEL SCHMIDT wrote: >> look at the rest of his auctions. > > Hi, > > This brings up a related question. Is there such a thing as "white > turquoise?" There are a number of Chinese vendors selling what looks > to me like howlite beads, and for that matter, some blue and yellow > "turquoise" that also look like dyed howlite. They also sell what > appear to be epoxy blocks of reconstituted turquoise, and when I asked > specifically if they were epoxy blocks, he said they were natural. I > can't paint all these vendors with the same broad brush, but since a > lot of their items are spammed into my daily searches, I see a fair > amount of this dubious material. I would imagine that some of these > vendors just don't get the difference and don't care, and some are > outright frauds. > > So I'll issue the bi-annual warning to list members who might not have > seen it before, but eBay is the wild west. Be very careful when > buying mineral & gem materials on eBay, and if you don't know, ask. > > best, > Don > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *My Jewelry:* *http://www.jeannius.com* *Silver Threads, Making Wire Filigree Jewelry(Book):* *http://www.silverthreadsfiligree.com* *Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* *Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com* *Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Sun Apr 29 13:10:16 2007 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Sun Apr 29 13:10:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] yeah, sure it's amber! Message-ID: Jeanne, Rockhounds all: Nothing like 'genuire Baltic amber' preserving a South American butterfly, I always say. Reminds me of the eBay auction 2-3 years ago for 'chunk amber' displayed in front of the Castolite can it came out of. Nothin' says fake more than something from China these days! Buyer beware despite the sellers reassurance, "So you can see I line out all the price and you can make out the total price by yourself all transparent! No fraudulence! All sincerely! When you got my items if you like that please your repeat business and your positive feed back. If you are interested, please quickly bid. " No fraudulence! All sincerely! Thanks for the amusing reference, Jeanne.

Donald L. Tuttle
SCOUTGRAPHICS INK USA
PO Box 548
Unadilla, NY 13849
Visit us at our webpage or blogsite:
http://www.scoutgraphicsink.com  http://patchdesignink.blogspot.com   


 

>From: Jeanne Rhodes-Moen >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: [Rockhounds] yeah, sure it's amber! >Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 11:23:13 -0400 > >thought you might be amused by this ebay auction...someone claiming this is >an authentic baltic amber w/ a full sized, perfectly preserved Butterfly in >it...gee...not surprisingly, this is coming out of china! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/butterfly-FOSSIL-INSECT-LARGE-GENUINE-BALTIC-AMBER_W0QQitemZ190105062058QQihZ009QQcategoryZ3214QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > >in case the link doesn't come through, it's item nr 190105062058 > >Jeanne >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >*My Jewelry:* *http://www.jeannius.com* > >*Silver Threads, Making Wire Filigree Jewelry(Book):* > >*http://www.silverthreadsfiligree.com* > >*Jewelry Artists Guild: http://www.jewelryartistsguild.com* > >*Family: http://www.rhodes-moen.com* > >*Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/jeanniusdesigns* > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Mortgage rates near historic lows. Refinance $200,000 loan for as low as $771/month* https://www2.nextag.com/goto.jsp?product=100000035&url=%2fst.jsp&tm=y&search=mortgage_text_links_88_h27f8&disc=y&vers=689&s=4056&p=5117 From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Apr 29 17:54:19 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 29 17:47:41 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Questions about Oxalic Acid and Cleaning Quartz References: <462D6088.252B@Tomaszewski.net> <46317059.4540@Tomaszewski.net><97175ae90704270819g717f13e5jf6dc3deb981c34b2@mail.gmail.com> <46329AEB.5090@Tomaszewski.net> <000601c78983$5f64a160$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <46353CA4.4FC3@Tomaszewski.net> Azel, Make micromounts. (With a side of beer after that hot collecting). Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > Kreigh wrote > > > On some days, like today, my sunshine is a bit diffused from > > all the clouds, but at least we're seeing sunshine. Better > > than a few months ago when we were going to and from work in > > the snow and the dark. Spring is finally here. > > No, summer is here... We have been sweating in temperatures from 24? up to > 30?C for two weeks now. Last Theusday we ate in our garden and stayed there > until 1 AM. It has not rained here yet this month. > April 2007 will go in the history books as the dryest... Wheather man says > at least 5 records will be pulverized. > Tropical Belgium? Next we'll be brewing palmbeer ;-))) > Did three quarries last Sunday... Brought home 1 fluorite crystal of about 2 > mm , some minute aragonite (Resteigne) and some fluorescing calcite (Beez) > that is also too small to make a display... Small country, small minerals? > ;-))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com Mon Apr 30 00:21:45 2007 From: anotherbrightidea at hotmail.com (Douglas Turet) Date: Mon Apr 30 00:21:48 2007 Subject: Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] yeah, sure it's amber! Message-ID: Hi folks, Today's postings about this fraud reminds me: one of my former students/mentees sent me a polished chunk of amber that she said was one of a fhalf-dozen, or so, that she and her husband dug while on vacation, here in the southern U.S., several years ago. The one she sent has a fairly well-formed, 10x11mm insect that looks sort of like a cross between a modern mosquito and a very scrawny yellowjacket (though more like the former), and also contains what appear to be aphids or some similar minute insects, and plant matter, of some kind. According to her description, one of the other pieces they'd collected contains something that resembles a trilobite/horseshoe crab hybrid, but is light brown in color. Does anyone here have a sense of what these might be worth? (And, for what it's worth -- before anyone jokingly suggests otherwise -- this is a couple whose integrity I know to be beyond reproach, so when she claims that they dug this out of a cliff face, while on vacation, that's the only explanation I need.) So, is there a way to "guesstimate" valuation? Many thanks, in advance, Doug Douglas Turet, GJ Turet DesignP. O. Box 242 Avon, MA 02322 U.S.A. Tel. (508) 586-5690 Fax: (508) 586-5677 Email: anotherbrightidea.AT.hotmail.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Mon Apr 30 17:42:24 2007 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Mon Apr 30 17:42:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] pixie mine turquoise References: Message-ID: <059301c78b89$987f2bc0$b3905a40@marilyn> Grant I was the one looking for pixie The old style pixie I have contacted the fox mine folks and seen them at Tucson but the new Pixie is not what I am looking for If you have some of the old pixie mined in the 70-80 time frame I am very interested. If you look in my album I have pictures of some of the old Pixie I am looking for. Thanks for responding and I would love to see a picture of anything you want to sell Thanks Steve smtravis@plateautel.net Phil did you get the Email post about taking pictures of Ernie' private stash? Let me Know if you want pictures of some of the best from hundreds of mines Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Johnston" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 4:02 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] pixie mine turquoise > Hello, > > Several months ago someone inquired about the green turquoise from the > Pixie Mine in Nevada. I've found the business card and phone number > for Fox Mining, the company I bought my turquoise from. My > understanding is they owned or had a lease on the Pixie. > > Contact me off list for their number. > > I have about 8 ounces of green Pixie turquoise on my table and several > pounds in a box in my rock room. If the interested person can't get it > from the source I would be willing to sell a small amount. > > Grant > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >