From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Nov 1 05:10:42 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Nov 1 05:10:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Was Heat treating agate to get carnelian now Chewy? In-Reply-To: <014101c81c21$2d096cb0$6901a8c0@rock3> References: <200710310202.l9V21m6a014815@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <014101c81c21$2d096cb0$6901a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <001401c81c80$3a0002d0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> > Don, > Don't go beating up on Axel too hard, I have been chewing on > him a bit off line too. Some how I don't think I changed his > mind much or vice versa. That's why I couldn't sleep last night... Felt like I was being chewed on ;-))) I sure hope I don't taste bad, Rock... No, but we got a view of each others thoughts which is the main goal of this (or any other list: from discussion sprouts the light.) What have I said to upset you, Don???? Or you, Rock, so that you I made you chew on me? OK, there is some questioning of existential landmarks in my reply to you but Somehow I don't think that this should cause more than the acknowledgement that we agree to disagree. Cheers Axel PS : maybe the existentials ,if that's the problem, off line? From nospam at orerockon.com Thu Nov 1 05:53:52 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 1 05:53:42 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] heat treating for color In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200711011253.lA1CrdCI029639@bubbleator.drizzle.com> At 06:40 AM 10/30/2007, you wrote: > >In a message dated 10/30/2007 5:28:03 AM Mountain Daylight Time, >nospam@orerockon.com writes: > >http://orerockon.com/Heat_treating.htm > > >I was just looking at that page of your site, Tim. For those of us "not >into" this, I was quite surprised at all these recipes for heat-treating >jaspers, etc. > >Does anyone know if Native Americans did any such heat-treatment of jaspers >and flints before knapping them, or did they just use them "as is"? > Yes they did. Agates and jaspers are not knappable as-is. The paleoindians actually mined agate and jasper by building large fires against the outcrops and allowing flakes to spall off from the heat (they probably quenched the material with water to help speed the process along). This also tempers the material for knapping. I have been in two caves at the Polkadot agate mine in Ashwood (central OR) that were made by native Americans over hundreds (if not thousands) of years with fire. They mined thousands of pounds of the agate from these caves. I have Polkadot bifaces and points from as far away as the Malheur Cave in SE OR. >A separate question, from improving the "knappability" of stones, is about >its improvement of their color. How do people feel about the ethics of of >"improving" color in stones by heat treating? I don't know a whole >lot about >such things; for example, I had no idea that some carnelian is >heat treated to >improve its color. To a degree, I tend to feel that such treatment >is, well, >should I call it dishonest? Although we all know that this is commonly done >in many various way, for many materials. These treatments make them look >pretty for sale in gift shops and use in jewelry, but of course we >collectors, >hope we know when we are buying material, whether it is "natural" or treated >or enhanced in some way. I don't expect to see things labeled about that in >a common gift shop, but one would hope that they are so labelled if >they have >been treated in ANY way, when sold to collectors! > Carnelian is almost always heat treated, Pete. Ditto for Brazilian agate nodules. Sorry to burst your bubble. >P.S., in scanning the list on your site, I was a little bit >(shocked/concerned?) when I saw a recipe for heating "mook jasper" >on the list. I have a >really nice piece of "mookaite", and it's one that I particularly >enjoy showing >to kids when I'm giving presentations to school classes about >rocks; they are >always impressed with the beautiful color pattern of bright red, yellow, >buff, tan, plus the cute name. I'd be very disillusioned to know that these >beautiful colors have been enhanced by heating; I've always assumed >that my rock >is completely natural (and I still hope it is... but now I'm not completely >sure). > The recipe is to make it knappable. I doubt it improves the color much if at all. >Pete Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 1 07:50:53 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 1 07:50:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Was Heat treating agate to get carnelian now Chewy? In-Reply-To: <001401c81c80$3a0002d0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <200710310202.l9V21m6a014815@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <014101c81c21$2d096cb0$6901a8c0@rock3> <001401c81c80$3a0002d0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <4729E7CD.1000005@verizon.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > > What have I said to upset you, Don???? Sorry, I have no idea what he is talking about... his comment was out of place. Still recovering, more later, Don From dnorris at frii.com Thu Nov 1 19:58:22 2007 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Thu Nov 1 19:58:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota In-Reply-To: <004301c8190b$81b33840$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <20071102025816.70717678BF@mail.frii.com> Hi, I am passing through South Dakota on Friday, close to Fairburn. Can anyone give me any information about collecting Fairburn agates? Any good locations that are easy and legal to go to? Actually, I am on my way to teach in Sioux Falls, so I will be going through Rapid City and then straight west if any one has collecting ideas. I just want to do about an hour of rock hunting for fun. Don Norris From nospam at orerockon.com Thu Nov 1 20:46:52 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 1 20:46:35 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota In-Reply-To: <20071102025816.70717678BF@mail.frii.com> References: <004301c8190b$81b33840$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <20071102025816.70717678BF@mail.frii.com> Message-ID: <200711020346.lA23kVe5031691@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I think the catch rate of Fairburns is about one an hour, so you won't be needing a bucket :) At 07:58 PM 11/1/2007, you wrote: >Hi, I am passing through South Dakota on Friday, close to Fairburn. Can >anyone give me any information about collecting Fairburn agates? Any good >locations that are easy and legal to go to? Actually, I am on my way to >teach in Sioux Falls, so I will be going through Rapid City and then >straight west if any one has collecting ideas. I just want to do about an >hour of rock hunting for fun. >Don Norris Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From julie at amazingagates.com Thu Nov 1 21:04:41 2007 From: julie at amazingagates.com (Amazing Agates) Date: Thu Nov 1 21:05:44 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota In-Reply-To: <20071102025816.70717678BF@mail.frii.com> References: <20071102025816.70717678BF@mail.frii.com> Message-ID: <472AA1D9.2010705@amazingagates.com> Stop at the National Grasslands Office on Main St. in Wall, just down the street from Wall Drug. They have up to date maps and can give you directions to a couple of places not far from the interstate in both directions from Wall. It is best to get a current map from them because National Grasslands land and private land are often swapped and you can end up trespassing without meaning to. Fairburns are notoriously hard to find, but you will probably find some nice Bubblegum Agates, petrified wood and Prairie Agates. Good luck! Don Norris wrote: > Hi, I am passing through South Dakota on Friday, close to Fairburn. Can > anyone give me any information about collecting Fairburn agates? Any good > locations that are easy and legal to go to? Actually, I am on my way to > teach in Sioux Falls, so I will be going through Rapid City and then > straight west if any one has collecting ideas. I just want to do about an > hour of rock hunting for fun. > Don Norris > > From dnorris at frii.com Fri Nov 2 00:44:09 2007 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Fri Nov 2 00:44:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota In-Reply-To: <472AA1D9.2010705@amazingagates.com> Message-ID: <20071102074403.D8D5D67833@mail.frii.com> Thank you, I will be stopping in Wall for sure to do some selling to them, so I will visit the National Grasslands Office. I had no idea that it would be up there too. I am going to stop at Fairburn too. I heard that the Fairburn Agate would be hard to find, but any small agate or petrified wood will nice to hunt. I just want to get out of the car, stretch my legs and do a little hunting. Thanks again, I know I will have a little fun around Wall. Don Norris -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota Stop at the National Grasslands Office on Main St. in Wall, From dnorris at frii.com Fri Nov 2 00:58:02 2007 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Fri Nov 2 00:58:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota In-Reply-To: <200711020346.lA23kVe5031691@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20071102075755.789E667894@mail.frii.com> I do not need a bucket for what I would be happy with, one would make my day for sure. I recently went to Tonopah, Nevada and paid $50.00 to spend a day with the Ottesons at one of their Turquoise mines. I told them that all I need was one piece that I could cut one stone out for my wife. One piece and I would be happy. They handed me a bucket. I sat it down and started helping them look through the rock and dirt they just pulled back for a wall. I started filling my pockets and they kept throwing pieces of Turquoise at me to keep. I would just put back in their bucket. I only wanted one nice piece to make my wife a pendant. After the was over, and I will have to write about that day, one that I will always remember, I most likely came home with over $1,000.00 worth of turquoise. But again, I would have been thrilled with just one piece, so if I find one Fairburn, I not only will be thrilled, but know that I was pretty lucky. I won't bring a bucket! Don Norris I think the catch rate of Fairburns is about one an hour, so you won't be needing a bucket :) From julie at amazingagates.com Fri Nov 2 01:07:16 2007 From: julie at amazingagates.com (Amazing Agates) Date: Fri Nov 2 01:08:03 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota In-Reply-To: <20071102074403.D8D5D67833@mail.frii.com> References: <20071102074403.D8D5D67833@mail.frii.com> Message-ID: <472ADAB4.5030402@amazingagates.com> If you get to any of the agate beds, you'll find plenty to collect. Actually, it is kind of overwhelming -- rock as far as you can see, much of it is quartz (white/rose/smoky), agate, petrified wood, jasper, Prairie Agate, etc. Hard to know what to pick up and bring home. Lots of poor quality stuff, of course, but you won't leave with empty pockets :-) It has been fairly warm for this late in the year, so do keep an eye out for rattlers. There is an interesting little rock shop in Okaton, also called Ghost Town at exit 183. Worth a quick stop if you have time. Happy hunting. Don Norris wrote: > Thank you, > I will be stopping in Wall for sure to do some selling to them, so I will > visit the National Grasslands Office. I had no idea that it would be up > there too. I am going to stop at Fairburn too. I heard that the Fairburn > Agate would be hard to find, but any small agate or petrified wood will nice > to hunt. I just want to get out of the car, stretch my legs and do a little > hunting. Thanks again, I know I will have a little fun around Wall. > Don Norris > > -----Original Message----- > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota > > Stop at the National Grasslands Office on Main St. in Wall, > > From dnorris at frii.com Fri Nov 2 01:22:25 2007 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Fri Nov 2 01:22:26 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota In-Reply-To: <472ADAB4.5030402@amazingagates.com> Message-ID: <20071102082219.83EC567833@mail.frii.com> Wow, I will stop at Okaton for sure. This is why I am driving on this three week teaching trip, to see things like this. Thank you! After teaching a one day Silver class in Sioux Falls on Saturday, I am going to Pipestone. I have passed it by several times to get to the Twin Cities to teach, so this time I am going to plan Sunday just to go there! Is it legal to take one of those rattlers home?! And, no I won't put it in my pocket! Maybe I will bring a bucket! Thanks again, Don Norris -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Amazing Agates If you get to any of the agate beds, you'll find plenty to collect. Actually, it is kind of overwhelming From jsmall47 at earthlink.net Fri Nov 2 05:14:47 2007 From: jsmall47 at earthlink.net (Jim Small) Date: Fri Nov 2 04:14:10 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] heat treating for color In-Reply-To: <200711020202.lA2221h2024093@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200711020202.lA2221h2024093@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20071102070619.02933c30@pop.earthlink.net> This one I can chime in on - yes, heat treating does improve agate color, where the coloring agent is iron (more specifically, one of the iron oxides). The way Hale Sweeney explained it was that the heating affected the valence of the iron in the iron oxide, and normally results in a brightening/deepening of predominantly red and/or orange body colors. For instance, much Oregon carnelian comes from the ground with a reddish skin, and is much paler inside; heat-treating improves the body color to a close match, especially after slabbing. Lake Superior agates travel great distances down the Mississippi drainage, and appear in large sizes/quantities as far south as Arkansas gravel pits - BUT, they are (for the most part) faded out. Slow, thorough drying, followed by heat-treating restores them to much of their original appearance. As far as I have been able to tell, the effectiveness of heat-treating on color is limited to improving the reds and oranges. KOR, Jim Small From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Nov 2 05:36:33 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Nov 2 05:37:16 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota In-Reply-To: <20071102074403.D8D5D67833@mail.frii.com> References: <472AA1D9.2010705@amazingagates.com> <20071102074403.D8D5D67833@mail.frii.com> Message-ID: Well last time we were up there looking thru a field a rancher stopped and came over to talk to us. He said that he thought we'd like to know that they pulled 6000 pounds of rattlesnakes out of that field we were in, during their rattlesnake roundup. LOL. BK On 11/2/07, Don Norris wrote: > > Thank you, > I will be stopping in Wall for sure to do some selling to them, so I will > visit the National Grasslands Office. I had no idea that it would be up > there too. I am going to stop at Fairburn too. I heard that the Fairburn > Agate would be hard to find, but any small agate or petrified wood will > nice > to hunt. I just want to get out of the car, stretch my legs and do a > little > hunting. Thanks again, I know I will have a little fun around Wall. > Don Norris > > -----Original Message----- > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota > > Stop at the National Grasslands Office on Main St. in Wall, > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Fri Nov 2 05:31:11 2007 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Fri Nov 2 06:06:03 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] heat treating for color References: Message-ID: <000001c81d51$18fd7780$1053d0c4@federatiydq01o> I know that amethyst is heated and becomes "citrine". When I just started with the hobby (mid-sixties), this"citrine" was being sold as "golden topaz" (pushing up the price still more as topaz has a greater value than citrine) Thus to my mind, this "citrine" should have been offered as "heat-treated amethyst" (or am I splitting hairs?) Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] heat treating for color > > In a message dated 10/30/2007 5:28:03 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > nospam@orerockon.com writes: > > http://orerockon.com/Heat_treating.htm > > > I was just looking at that page of your site, Tim. For those of us "not > into" this, I was quite surprised at all these recipes for heat-treating > jaspers, etc. > > Does anyone know if Native Americans did any such heat-treatment of > jaspers > and flints before knapping them, or did they just use them "as is"? > > A separate question, from improving the "knappability" of stones, is about > its improvement of their color. How do people feel about the ethics of of > "improving" color in stones by heat treating? I don't know a whole lot > about > such things; for example, I had no idea that some carnelian is heat > treated to > improve its color. To a degree, I tend to feel that such treatment is, > well, > should I call it dishonest? Although we all know that this is commonly > done > in many various way, for many materials. These treatments make them look > pretty for sale in gift shops and use in jewelry, but of course we > collectors, > hope we know when we are buying material, whether it is "natural" or > treated > or enhanced in some way. I don't expect to see things labeled about that > in > a common gift shop, but one would hope that they are so labelled if they > have > been treated in ANY way, when sold to collectors! > > P.S., in scanning the list on your site, I was a little bit > (shocked/concerned?) when I saw a recipe for heating "mook jasper" on the > list. I have a > really nice piece of "mookaite", and it's one that I particularly enjoy > showing > to kids when I'm giving presentations to school classes about rocks; they > are > always impressed with the beautiful color pattern of bright red, yellow, > buff, tan, plus the cute name. I'd be very disillusioned to know that > these > beautiful colors have been enhanced by heating; I've always assumed that > my rock > is completely natural (and I still hope it is... but now I'm not > completely > sure). > > Pete > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.13/1099 - Release Date: > 30/10/2007 10:06 > > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Nov 2 07:29:58 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Nov 2 07:29:59 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota In-Reply-To: References: <472AA1D9.2010705@amazingagates.com><20071102074403.D8D5D67833@mail.frii.com> Message-ID: <001401c81d5c$d8ccdb40$6b01a8c0@okapi> I don't know if there's any left, but aeons ago (as in late 1960's) you could collect some "slab" agate north of Scenic and state hwy 44. This stuff was laying right on the surface and was around 1/2 to 1 inch thick. Gorgeous sky to baby blue in color. Don't even think of collecting when it's wet because the area was right in the middle of mud washed down from the Badlands formations. I've still got a couple of pieces squirreled away in my collection. Don't forget to stop in at the geology museum of SD Tech in Rapid City! Gary http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS disk http://www.fusedlight.com Warm Glass! From ajs at frii.com Fri Nov 2 10:41:32 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Fri Nov 2 10:41:35 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota In-Reply-To: <20071102025816.70717678BF@mail.frii.com> Message-ID: <20071102174132.E82D21CC35@io.frii.com> Don et al, > I am passing through South Dakota on Friday, close to Fairburn. Can > anyone give me any information about collecting Fairburn agates? Any > good locations that are easy and legal to go to? I've hunted at Fairburn at least five times, but don't seem to have anything on line I could easily send you except the GPS coords (anyone want that?) I can tell you that while hunting there is fun, apparently still legal, and there are many vast places you can go (main beds, west beds, south beds, I get confused), the odds of actually finding a Fairburn are very close to zero. You might get one small one in 3-5 days. I've found maybe 5 total in all my trips, nothing very big or exciting. But I do find some other nice agates and jaspers... It's alluvial frosting, a mix of materials, on badlands terrain. If I remember right, the main beds (north of the free BLM campground) are 20-30 minutes east of the pavement, on good gravel roads. You need to know where to follow the turns through the village of Fairburn itself, then the main road makes a lot of curves although not hard to follow. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From ajs at frii.com Fri Nov 2 10:45:35 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Fri Nov 2 10:45:37 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota In-Reply-To: <472ADAB4.5030402@amazingagates.com> Message-ID: <20071102174535.6A1051CC35@io.frii.com> > If you get to any of the agate beds, you'll find plenty to collect. Yes, no, maybe, depending on what you like. No shortage of rocks to review, but at least the main beds are pretty picked over for rose quartz, fossil wood, etc. > Hard to know what to pick up and bring home. Lots of poor quality > stuff, of course, but you won't leave with empty pockets :-) Agreed, not unless you are selective. One year I took home about 5 gallons of what I called "Fairburn orange crud" rocks, being jaspers that had the look of the matrix that might contain the fine banding, but didn't. I ran it through the truck tire grinder to see if there were any surprises. Almost all of it came out rather different when cleaned up, some of it with interesting patterns or features, but I think only ONE rock had any "hidden Fairburn pattern" in it. This still doesn't say whether cracking open nodules might reveal more. You'd have to bust hundreds of them, and for all I know they might naturally already split showing the pattern if there is any. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 2 12:59:52 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 2 12:57:57 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is a mineral (GSA) In-Reply-To: <002a01c81afb$93350ca0$0200a8c0@Notebook> References: <24686562.175251193718695976.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net> <002a01c81afb$93350ca0$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <472B81B8.4030407@verizon.net> John Siebel wrote: > Brother Don, > > You're addressing the GSA? Do tell! Oh, it was no big thing--a submitted talk on the use, and misuse, of EDS in forensics. Here is the abstract: http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2007AM/finalprogram/abstract_129180.htm It was neat because I was able to include a real-life situation where a collector from the Franklin NJ area sent out a sample to be identified using EDS (energy dispersive spectroscopy, an analytical system usually combined with an SEM). The "closest match" was for svabite, a rare apatite that is in the same series as the ones known from that locality but has never been identified from the Franklin/Sterling Hill district. Using samples provided to me, I was able to demonstrate that EDS cannot identify these apatites with certainty. In fact, I used a more accurate and precise instrument, the electron microprobe, and I'm still not certain. The problem lies in the fact that there is a halogen site which contains one atom of either (F,Cl,OH), and possibly others, per formula unit. The identity of the species is dependent upon one of these being >50% of the total of two others, and at such low quantities, the precision becomes a problem. The bigger issue is that neither of these instruments can detect H, so with the probe, (OH) is calculated by difference. I also did a segment on how you can't really tell gypsum and anhydrite apart using EDS, but you can with x-ray diffraction, and how this would be useful for people trying to determine whether residual dusts from New York city came from the World Trade Center incident (gypsum in wallboard becomes anhydrite when heated in a fire). So anyway I was told it went very well. Several crime lab and FBI folks seemed happy with my work so far, which suggests it is on the right track. best, Don From kugeln at peoplepc.com Fri Nov 2 13:46:34 2007 From: kugeln at peoplepc.com (kugeln@peoplepc.com) Date: Fri Nov 2 13:46:36 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota References: <20071102082219.83EC567833@mail.frii.com> Message-ID: <004f01c81d91$766a71d0$f6b45545@JOHN> Pipestone is a great experience! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Norris" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 1:22 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fairburn Agates in South Dakota > Wow, I will stop at Okaton for sure. This is why I am driving on this > three > week teaching trip, to see things like this. Thank you! After teaching a > one > day Silver class in Sioux Falls on Saturday, I am going to Pipestone. I > have > passed it by several times to get to the Twin Cities to teach, so this > time > I am going to plan Sunday just to go there! > > Is it legal to take one of those rattlers home?! And, no I won't put it in > my pocket! Maybe I will bring a bucket! > Thanks again, > Don Norris > > -----Original Message----- > On Behalf Of Amazing Agates > > > If you get to any of the agate beds, you'll find plenty to collect. > Actually, it is kind of overwhelming > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From lavenderfish at cox.net Fri Nov 2 13:50:15 2007 From: lavenderfish at cox.net (Carol Carter-Wientjes) Date: Fri Nov 2 13:50:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Heat treating agate to get carnelian Message-ID: <00f701c81d91$f885a270$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Rock, Thank you so much for all of that info, very interesting stuff going on "out there". I know that black onyx is a product of the sulfuric acid carbonization treatment and is a long process. Incorporating nails to produce a specific tone of green was pretty ingenious of your friend. As for the agate that prompted me to ask about heat treating, it's a type of carnelian from Hemlock Lake in Oregon. 2-3 mm of the surface is a beautiful orange-red but any deeper inside, the material is mostly clear with a hint of orange & some isolated spots are dark orange. I cut off a couple of slabs which I suspect will darken with some heat given the tint that's already present, am hoping so anyway. Fri a.m......that's as far as I got with this email last night, then saw Jim Small's post this morning that said: "For instance, much Oregon carnelian comes from the ground with a reddish skin, and is much paler inside; heat-treating improves the body color to a close match, especially after slabbing." Excellent! Thanks, you couldn't have picked out a better example Jim! I'll be roasting the slabs sometime next week and will let you guys know what happens. TGIF and Have a Gneiss Weekend, Carol --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Nov 2 15:55:42 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Nov 2 15:55:37 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is a mineral (GSA) In-Reply-To: <472B81B8.4030407@verizon.net> References: <24686562.175251193718695976.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net><002a01c81afb$93350ca0$0200a8c0@Notebook> <472B81B8.4030407@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001401c81da3$7f240180$6401a8c0@AxelHP> > Oh, it was no big thing--a submitted talk on the use, and > misuse, of EDS in forensics. Here is the abstract: > > http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2007AM/finalprogram/abstract_129180.htm But you tell it so that even I (being just an "self-educated" layman when it comes to these techniques) understand what you're saying... which makes it a big deal! Is there any chance to see a more complete version of your speech? My sincere admiration! Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Nov 2 18:16:12 2007 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Nov 2 18:16:47 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Louisville show Message-ID: <005701c81db7$1fcfec80$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Today was the first day of the Kyana Geological Society's show in Louisville. Basic info: When - first weekend in November Where - American Legion's Highland Post (Bardstown Road, 4 blocks N of I-264) Hours - 10 to 7 Sat., 10 to 6 Sun. Items - Minerals, fossils, gemstones, jewelry, books, food, etc. Other notes - activities for children, display cases with specimens from area collectors. This is a new date and location, formerly the 2nd weekend in Nov. at the Executive Inn. Their rental rate went up and as it turns out, the hotel is going to be demolished next year anyway. Details at www.kyanageo.org/ Alan --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 2 18:35:17 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 2 18:27:52 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is a mineral (GSA) References: <24686562.175251193718695976.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net> <002a01c81afb$93350ca0$0200a8c0@Notebook> <472B81B8.4030407@verizon.net> Message-ID: <472BCE90.10AD@Tomaszewski.net> Don, Fifteen minutes of fame at a GSA conference may not be a big deal for you, but I think it is a significant accomplishment and applaud you. Your note, and the abstract, make me want to read the whole paper. How does one get a copy of it? Kreigh DonH wrote: > > John Siebel wrote: > > > Brother Don, > > > > You're addressing the GSA? Do tell! > > Oh, it was no big thing--a submitted talk on the use, and misuse, of EDS > in forensics. Here is the abstract: > > http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2007AM/finalprogram/abstract_129180.htm > > It was neat because I was able to include a real-life situation where a > collector from the Franklin NJ area sent out a sample to be identified > using EDS (energy dispersive spectroscopy, an analytical system usually > combined with an SEM). The "closest match" was for svabite, a rare > apatite that is in the same series as the ones known from that locality > but has never been identified from the Franklin/Sterling Hill > district. Using samples provided to me, I was able to demonstrate that > EDS cannot identify these apatites with certainty. In fact, I used a > more accurate and precise instrument, the electron microprobe, and I'm > still not certain. The problem lies in the fact that there is a halogen > site which contains one atom of either (F,Cl,OH), and possibly others, > per formula unit. The identity of the species is dependent upon one of > these being >50% of the total of two others, and at such low quantities, > the precision becomes a problem. The bigger issue is that neither of > these instruments can detect H, so with the probe, (OH) is calculated by > difference. > > I also did a segment on how you can't really tell gypsum and anhydrite > apart using EDS, but you can with x-ray diffraction, and how this would > be useful for people trying to determine whether residual dusts from New > York city came from the World Trade Center incident (gypsum in wallboard > becomes anhydrite when heated in a fire). > > So anyway I was told it went very well. Several crime lab and FBI folks > seemed happy with my work so far, which suggests it is on the right track. > > best, > Don > From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 2 22:51:40 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 2 22:49:53 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] What is a mineral (GSA) In-Reply-To: <472BCE90.10AD@Tomaszewski.net> References: <24686562.175251193718695976.JavaMail.root@vms226.mailsrvcs.net> <002a01c81afb$93350ca0$0200a8c0@Notebook> <472B81B8.4030407@verizon.net> <472BCE90.10AD@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <472C0C6C.4060105@verizon.net> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Don, > > Fifteen minutes of fame at a GSA conference may not be a big deal for > you, but I think it is a significant accomplishment and applaud you. > > Your note, and the abstract, make me want to read the whole paper. How > does one get a copy of it? Thanks, but there are lots of submitted papers, really. Now when some day I have an invited talk, OK, then it will be something exciting. Well fortunately I wrote the whole talk into a Word doc, since I had so much info to pack into 15 mins. that I didn't risk trying to commit it to memory. Also I have the Powerpoint slides. They are all Office 2003 if you can read that. Don From kadok at infowest.com Sat Nov 3 12:58:01 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Nov 3 12:56:56 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mosul Dam on Shaky (well, soluble) Ground In-Reply-To: <00ef01c81b01$2a319970$6b01a8c0@okapi> References: <062501c81aa9$d7b75290$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0><836123.20305.qm@web82514.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00ef01c81b01$2a319970$6b01a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <001b01c81e53$d70e3310$0200a8c0@kadok> Another example, although much smaller. -- In the SW corner of Utah, near St. George, they built a dam, just above the Virgin River east of St. George, to impound water and make a recreational lake (Quail Lake). Built in a formation, and on a fault) with lots of Selenite. Oked by at least one prominent local geologist. One cofferdam had been leaking about ever since it had been built, as was obvious from the constant stream ov water running down in to the Virgin. About 15 years ago or so, just before Christmas, the cofferdam went out, sending a huge flood down into the Virgin river and on downstream to St. George, where homes in a rather posh subdivision near the river were flooded. Did they learn their lesson? No!! it was rebuilt -- Over many protests. Because St. George had just spent a million bucks to build a water purification plant (to remove the gypsum from the water in the reservoir to make it potable after having soaked up the gypsum for some years.) They said that the oriinal dam just hadn't been built right. So there it sits. They did put in a pump to dry up the streambed so the leak is no longer obvious. But it is most likely still there. And they have just finished greatly enlarging their water treatment plant. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Brown Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:29 AM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: [Rockhounds] Mosul Dam on Shaky (well, soluble) Ground Didn't the engineers of the Mosul Dam in Iraq ever take geology? They built a big chunk of the beast on top of gypsum beds. 500,000 will drown if it breaks. It reminds me of a dam on the south eastern margin of the black hills. Yup. Built over the Spearfish. GcB -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jr50wv at yahoo.com Sun Nov 4 07:58:27 2007 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Sun Nov 4 07:58:31 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Big Dam Foolishness - really Message-ID: <27036.94876.qm@web56312.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: I can't resist telling my own story about a dam that didn't work. My subject line is a quote from my Granddad, who believed in little SCS (Soil Conservation Service) dams in the heads of watersheds, rather than Army Corps dams to control flooding. Part of the mining program here in WV is a water/wetlands protection program called mitigation. If a company plans to destroy a given number of acres of stream bed or wetlands, they have to do something to "mitigate" that damage. One company offered to build a dam at a state park (Chief Logan State Park, actually) so that local residents and tourists would have a nice lake to recreate in. Several hundreds of thousands of dollars (in not a couple of million) were invested. Of course, Chief Logan park is located in mining country, where there is a lot of subsidence and underground tunnels etc. The new dam didn't hold water...at all. The company said they had promised to build a dam, not a lake, so they were off the hook, mitigation-wise. I still remember hearing one of DEP's lawyers shouting "But the definition of a dam is a stlructure that holds water!" in a hallway. I don't remember if they ever got a lake out of it, but I wasn't surprised the dam didn't hold water, every inch of Logan county has been mined, underground mines always provide subsidence, which always leads to faulting, through which water seeps. I have a friend with a farm-pond sized dam that only holds water in a rainstorm, not mining related, just loose sandstone, I think. We spread a lot of bentonite around, but couldn't get it stopped up. KOR!! JR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Nov 4 09:51:14 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Nov 4 09:52:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks References: <27036.94876.qm@web56312.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002c01c81f0b$4fcb8b60$0200a8c0@Notebook> Rather weird! http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/04/TRCAT0IV2.DTL John From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Nov 4 16:10:13 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 4 15:56:17 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks References: <27036.94876.qm@web56312.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <002c01c81f0b$4fcb8b60$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <472E5C16.472F@Tomaszewski.net> John Siebel wrote: > > Rather weird! > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/04/TRCAT0IV2.DTL > > John > Scientific American covered this a couple years ago and thought the cause was wind. Looking for the article online was unsuccessful, but I found a newer explanation that makes sense. The lakebed moves under the rocks http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4021 From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Nov 4 16:26:20 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Nov 4 16:27:48 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks References: <27036.94876.qm@web56312.mail.re3.yahoo.com><002c01c81f0b$4fcb8b60$0200a8c0@Notebook> <472E5C16.472F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000601c81f42$843bbff0$0200a8c0@Notebook> Interesting site - bookmarked for further perusal. Although this video doesn't say that the lake bed moves. It says that a combination of wind, water and ice push the rocks along the surface. Or am I missing something? John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks > John Siebel wrote: >> >> Rather weird! >> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/04/TRCAT0IV2.DTL >> >> John >> > > Scientific American covered this a couple years ago and thought the > cause was wind. Looking for the article online was unsuccessful, but I > found a newer explanation that makes sense. The lakebed moves under the > rocks > > http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4021 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Nov 4 18:32:34 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 4 18:18:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks References: <27036.94876.qm@web56312.mail.re3.yahoo.com><002c01c81f0b$4fcb8b60$0200a8c0@Notebook> <472E5C16.472F@Tomaszewski.net> <000601c81f42$843bbff0$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <472E7D5F.3C53@Tomaszewski.net> John, As I read it, the wind pushes sheets of ice across the shallow lakebed. When they hit the rounded rocks the ice would slide part way under the rocks and push them across the mud in the water under the ice. It would be much easier to get the rocks unstuck and moving if the ice tipped them up just a bit. You are right, I should have said the lake moves instead of the lakebed. Kreigh John Siebel wrote: > > Interesting site - bookmarked for further perusal. Although this video > doesn't say that the lake bed moves. It says that a combination of wind, > water and ice push the rocks along the surface. Or am I missing something? > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 4:10 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks > > > John Siebel wrote: > >> > >> Rather weird! > >> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/04/TRCAT0IV2.DTL > >> > >> John > >> > > > > Scientific American covered this a couple years ago and thought the > > cause was wind. Looking for the article online was unsuccessful, but I > > found a newer explanation that makes sense. The lakebed moves under the > > rocks > > > > http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4021 > > From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Nov 5 05:12:12 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Nov 5 05:12:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks In-Reply-To: <472E5C16.472F@Tomaszewski.net> References: <27036.94876.qm@web56312.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <002c01c81f0b$4fcb8b60$0200a8c0@Notebook> <472E5C16.472F@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Well I was out there in the late 1970's and the rangers then were using the very same explanation. And may have been doing so for decades as far as I know. So there doesn't seem to be anything new about this. I'm sure I saw magazine articles in that time period on the phenomena. BK On 11/4/07, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > John Siebel wrote: > > > > Rather weird! > > > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/04/TRCAT0IV2.DTL > > > > John > > > > Scientific American covered this a couple years ago and thought the > cause was wind. Looking for the article online was unsuccessful, but I > found a newer explanation that makes sense. The lakebed moves under the > rocks > > http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4021 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BNMJEFF at aol.com Mon Nov 5 05:59:23 2007 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Mon Nov 5 05:59:29 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks Message-ID: Sounds like a good theory, but wouldn't the edge of the ice leave some sort of mark on the lakebed as well? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Mon Nov 5 06:29:44 2007 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Mon Nov 5 06:30:12 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <01d701c81fb8$507ef440$1d3ba8c0@D8YF2G81> That would only be true if the ice grew until it pushed the rock... but if we think of a bearing race where the ball bearings are surrounded by the race, Ice could easily do the same and would not have a leading edge to be pushed down by the rock... Kay -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of BNMJEFF@aol.com Sent: November 5, 2007 8:59 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks Sounds like a good theory, but wouldn't the edge of the ice leave some sort of mark on the lakebed as well? ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From ajs at frii.com Mon Nov 5 11:39:24 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Mon Nov 5 11:39:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks In-Reply-To: <01d701c81fb8$507ef440$1d3ba8c0@D8YF2G81> Message-ID: <20071105193924.D733B1CC35@io.frii.com> Yup, the Racetrack Playa is a very interesting place, one of a handful of known "playa racetracks" on the planet. I've been out there a couple of times. It's a long drive (26 miles?) on a gravel road that is either terribly slow due to relentless washboards, or else a breeze if it's been graded recently. Death Valley in general is a remote place. Out at the Racetrack it feels even moreso. The second time, I happened to have a rented 4WD vehicle, so we continued down the rough 4WD road into Saline Valley -- now THAT is remote! There's been debate for years about how the rocks move. Placing stakes around them, but they moved anyway, ruled out large ice sheets. So if ice is involved, it's a small amount, or comes into play only after the rock is moving. During my first visit, I hiked up Ubehebe Peak, overlooking the playa, for a fabulous view down... Eerie and lonely. No one has ever seen the rocks moved, but as I arrived back at my car in fading twilight, near one edge of the playa and maybe a mile from the end where the rocks start, the wind started howling and it rained. For a moment I thought I was going to get very lucky. But it didn't rain long enough. During my second visit, my willing companions allowed me to walk from the Grandstand to the north end where the rocks start, while they drove to meet me, about two miles and nearly and hour if I recall right. A weird experience. I could walk for long distances with my eyes closed, as long as I didn't trip over any of the occasional racetrack rocks! Alan Silverstein From llbullbull at hotmail.com Mon Nov 5 13:09:41 2007 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Mon Nov 5 13:09:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: [Bmc-announce] Blanford Kyanite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 09:11:29 -0500From: jimcahoon70@gmail.comTo: Bmc-announce@jerrycarter.orgCC: Subject: [Bmc-announce] Blanford Kyanite Having just returned from Blanford, I've made a few field observations, which are key to finding kyanite. Among them, it the fact that Biotite, coarse biotite, is present, around the kyanite pods.My question is. is Biotite an alteration of Kyanite? ............Another question, which is a higher grade of metamorphism, garnet or kyanite? As a rule, we have found, no kyanite is present, when there are abundant garnets Jim Cahoon jimcahoon70@gmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCkJtYy1hbm5v dW5jZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkJtYy1hbm5vdW5jZUBqZXJyeWNhcnRlci5vcmcNCmh0dHA6Ly93 d3cuamVycnljYXJ0ZXIub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYm1jLWFubm91bmNlDQo --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html text/plain (text body -- kept) --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Nov 5 16:32:59 2007 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Nov 5 16:30:20 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite Message-ID: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash> Jim, Kyanite forms at a higher pressure and temperature than garnet, so usually they are not together. There are exceptions I have a specimen from Russia that has both. I believe that would indicate my Russian specimen is right on the boundary ( isograd) between the two. (adjacent metamorphic zones on a map are separated by isograds or line of equal grade.) Not sure about the alteration of kyanite to mica, but I do know cordierite alters to mica, so there is a good possibility. Kyanite is often found mica schist. Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Nov 5 16:46:37 2007 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Nov 5 16:43:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <000701c8200e$7d7798c0$550ba118@feldsparflash> found in mica shist. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Reynard" To: "Rockhounds" Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 7:32 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite Jim, Kyanite forms at a higher pressure and temperature than garnet, so usually they are not together. There are exceptions I have a specimen from Russia that has both. I believe that would indicate my Russian specimen is right on the boundary ( isograd) between the two. (adjacent metamorphic zones on a map are separated by isograds or line of equal grade.) Not sure about the alteration of kyanite to mica, but I do know cordierite alters to mica, so there is a good possibility. Kyanite is often found mica schist. Carolyn Reynard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Nov 5 17:18:05 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Nov 5 17:19:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook> Freezeout Mountain, Shoshone County, Idaho sports both kyanite and garnet in mica schist. There is staurolite nearby. Lanny could certainly elaborate on this as his field guides got us up there. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Reynard" Kyanite forms at a higher pressure and temperature than garnet, so usually they are not together. There are exceptions I have a specimen from Russia that has both. I believe that would indicate my Russian specimen is right on the boundary ( isograd) between the two. (adjacent metamorphic zones on a map are separated by isograds or line of equal grade.) Not sure about the alteration of kyanite to mica, but I do know cordierite alters to mica, so there is a good possibility. Kyanite is often found mica schist. Carolyn Reynard From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Nov 5 17:37:48 2007 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Nov 5 17:35:14 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash> <002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <000701c82015$a46fc6d0$550ba118@feldsparflash> I would love to collect on Freezout Mountain. Very often here in Dutchess County, NY [where we have a classic metamorphic sequence from the Hudson River to Connecticut ] we find the garnet and staurolite together. What I find fascinating is these minerals have the same chemical formula; the crystal form changes with the increase of temperature & pressure. There is very little kyanite here and the sillimanite is microscopic. Even further east into Ct. one finds both greater metamorphism [ where the kyanite was located in original e-mail posting] and actual melting of the rock forming some very fine pegmatites. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Siebel" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite > Freezeout Mountain, Shoshone County, Idaho sports both kyanite and garnet in > mica schist. There is staurolite nearby. Lanny could certainly elaborate on > this as his field guides got us up there. > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carolyn Reynard" > Kyanite forms at a higher pressure and temperature than garnet, so usually > they are not together. There are exceptions I have a specimen from Russia > that has both. I believe that would indicate my Russian specimen is right on > the boundary ( isograd) between the two. (adjacent metamorphic zones on a > map are separated by isograds or line of equal grade.) > > Not sure about the alteration of kyanite to mica, but I do know cordierite > alters to mica, so there is a good possibility. Kyanite is often found mica > schist. > > Carolyn Reynard > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Nov 5 17:42:53 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Nov 5 17:41:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite In-Reply-To: <000701c82015$a46fc6d0$550ba118@feldsparflash> References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash> <002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook> <000701c82015$a46fc6d0$550ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <472FC69D.2080309@verizon.net> Carolyn Reynard wrote: > I would love to collect on Freezout Mountain. If you are prepared for the adventure, we can bring you there. Don From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Nov 5 18:02:47 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Nov 5 18:05:13 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash><002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook><000701c82015$a46fc6d0$550ba118@feldsparflash> <472FC69D.2080309@verizon.net> Message-ID: <003b01c82019$2ab22b90$0200a8c0@Notebook> Might be snow-free for the next few days. Otherwise, prepare to wait until next August. :-) (no kidding). John ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite > Carolyn Reynard wrote: > >> I would love to collect on Freezout Mountain. > > > If you are prepared for the adventure, we can bring you there. > > Don From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Nov 6 03:09:56 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 6 03:09:53 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite In-Reply-To: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash> References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <001f01c82065$9048b950$6401a8c0@AxelHP> White kyanite may be fluorescent (yellowish white in LW and white in SW). Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Carolyn Reynard > Verzonden: dinsdag 6 november 2007 1:33 > Aan: Rockhounds > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite > > Jim, > > Kyanite forms at a higher pressure and temperature than > garnet, so usually they are not together. There are > exceptions I have a specimen from Russia that has both. I > believe that would indicate my Russian specimen is right on > the boundary ( isograd) between the two. (adjacent > metamorphic zones on a map are separated by isograds or line > of equal grade.) > > Not sure about the alteration of kyanite to mica, but I do > know cordierite alters to mica, so there is a good > possibility. Kyanite is often found mica schist. > > Carolyn Reynard > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From hammerron at yahoo.com Tue Nov 6 05:56:02 2007 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Tue Nov 6 05:56:06 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Arkansas Diamond Message-ID: <584387.71750.qm@web83502.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wow they seems to just keep on coming ! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071106/ap_on_fe_st/odd_diamond_found --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 6 08:23:38 2007 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Nov 6 08:23:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <471551.45845.qm@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The November update to the price lists of microminerals on www.sauktown.com will be posted today. It includes some less common species, such as obradovicite, ferrarisite and sainfeldtite. There's also some new mounted specimens: nealite, pseudolaueite, schoonerite, steacyite, tlapallite, weloganite and willhendersonite, and another installment of the Dryer collection. I'm also posting a trip report on the Desautels Micromount Symposium in Baltimore, Maryland. Follow the Field Trips link to find it. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com sauktown1@yahoo.com or orders@sauktown.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Tue Nov 6 10:39:32 2007 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Tue Nov 6 10:39:35 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite In-Reply-To: <002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook> References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash> <002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: Hi John and Carolyn There are a number of areas in the metamorphic complex that Freezeout is in that have kyanite and garnet (dominantly almandine). On Moses Butte, there is a small zone with kyanite included in garnet. Andalusite, kyanite, staurolite and garnet all have been reported on the Goat Mountain - Backdome Peak area east of Freezeout. Can't relate from experience exactly which ones can be found in the same chunk of rock, except the garnet and kyanite together there. It seems that when I'm in that area I've got too big of a to do list and thus haven't ventured far from the road on that particular ridge. Mica pseudomorphs after kyanite and staurolite are reported in several areas of these metamorphics. Regards, Lanny On Nov 5, 2007, at 5:18 PM, John Siebel wrote: > Freezeout Mountain, Shoshone County, Idaho sports both kyanite and > garnet in mica schist. There is staurolite nearby. Lanny could > certainly elaborate on this as his field guides got us up there. > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Reynard" > Kyanite forms at a higher pressure and temperature than garnet, so > usually they are not together. There are exceptions I have a specimen > from Russia that has both. I believe that would indicate my Russian > specimen is right on the boundary ( isograd) between the two. > (adjacent metamorphic zones on a map are separated by isograds or line > of equal grade.) > > Not sure about the alteration of kyanite to mica, but I do know > cordierite alters to mica, so there is a good possibility. Kyanite is > often found mica schist. > > Carolyn Reynard > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From mrmanon at umich.edu Tue Nov 6 12:21:10 2007 From: mrmanon at umich.edu (Matthew Manon) Date: Tue Nov 6 12:22:20 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite In-Reply-To: References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash> <002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <78CF1BB0-4B91-4EB9-97EE-47F9A7101E8B@umich.edu> All, Garnet + Kyanite is a stable mineral in high-pressure eclogites, and =20 forms at the expense of plagioclase according to the reaction: 3 CaAl2Si2O8 =3D Ca3Al2Si3O12 + 2Al2SiO5 + SiO2 anorthite =3D grossular + kyanite + quartz In the pure system CaO-Al2O3-SiO2, this reaction takes place at =20 something like 16 kbar (800=FBC). Generally garnets will have more =20 almandine and pyrope components than grossular, so the reaction can =20 be found at even lower pressures. Kyanite-bearing Eclogites have been reported in many places, such as =20 Scotland (glenelg, Sanders 1988), the Tauren window (Holland 1979) =20 and the diamondiferous UHP Kokchetav massif (Sobolev & Shatsky 1990) -Matt On Nov 6, 2007, at 1:39 PM, Lanny wrote: > Hi John and Carolyn > > There are a number of areas in the metamorphic complex that =20 > Freezeout is in that have kyanite and garnet (dominantly =20 > almandine). On Moses Butte, there is a small zone with kyanite =20 > included in garnet. Andalusite, kyanite, staurolite and garnet all =20 > have been reported on the Goat Mountain - Backdome Peak area east =20 > of Freezeout. Can't relate from experience exactly which ones can =20 > be found in the same chunk of rock, except the garnet and kyanite =20 > together there. It seems that when I'm in that area I've got too =20 > big of a to do list and thus haven't ventured far from the road on =20 > that particular ridge. > > Mica pseudomorphs after kyanite and staurolite are reported in =20 > several areas of these metamorphics. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > On Nov 5, 2007, at 5:18 PM, John Siebel wrote: > >> Freezeout Mountain, Shoshone County, Idaho sports both kyanite and =20= >> garnet in mica schist. There is staurolite nearby. Lanny could =20 >> certainly elaborate on this as his field guides got us up there. >> >> John >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Reynard" >> Kyanite forms at a higher pressure and temperature than garnet, so =20= >> usually they are not together. There are exceptions I have a =20 >> specimen from Russia that has both. I believe that would indicate =20 >> my Russian specimen is right on the boundary ( isograd) between =20 >> the two. (adjacent metamorphic zones on a map are separated by =20 >> isograds or line of equal grade.) >> >> Not sure about the alteration of kyanite to mica, but I do know =20 >> cordierite alters to mica, so there is a good possibility. Kyanite =20= >> is often found mica schist. >> >> Carolyn Reynard >> >> --=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > --=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Nov 6 14:37:15 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Nov 6 14:37:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks In-Reply-To: <002c01c81f0b$4fcb8b60$0200a8c0@Notebook> References: <27036.94876.qm@web56312.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <002c01c81f0b$4fcb8b60$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: Nice read about a very interesting place and phenomenon. Glenn > From: john@pandemoniumgraphics.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 09:51:14 -0800> Subject: [Rockhounds] Death Valley's Racing Rocks> > Rather weird!> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/04/TRCAT0IV2.DTL> > John> > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Nov 6 19:29:48 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Nov 6 19:29:52 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite In-Reply-To: <003b01c82019$2ab22b90$0200a8c0@Notebook> References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash><002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook><000701c82015$a46fc6d0$550ba118@feldsparflash> <472FC69D.2080309@verizon.net> <003b01c82019$2ab22b90$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: How far is it from SLC? Are you serious about going now? Glenn > From: john@pandemoniumgraphics.com> > Might be snow-free for the next few days. Otherwise, prepare to wait until > next August. :-) (no kidding).> > John> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DonH" > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite> > > > Carolyn Reynard wrote:> >> >> I would love to collect on Freezout Mountain.> >> >> > If you are prepared for the adventure, we can bring you there.> >> > Don _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!? Play Star Shuffle:? the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Nov 6 20:06:19 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Nov 6 20:04:29 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite In-Reply-To: References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash><002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook><000701c82015$a46fc6d0$550ba118@feldsparflash> <472FC69D.2080309@verizon.net> <003b01c82019$2ab22b90$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <473139BB.6060404@verizon.net> Glenn Wimpee wrote: > How far is it from SLC? > > Are you serious about going now? Well, if that is Salt Lake City, it's about 1.5 hrs. flight from SLC to Lewiston Airport, then about 3 hrs. drive to the mighty terrain where kyanites and andalusites are as big as Snickers bars and garnets are too big to lift. In all seriousness, yes if someone could make it here soon I would take them out, as long as they provide a high-clearance vehicle (which I do not have; mine gets me pretty far, but not as far as where we need to go). We are having an Indian summer right now (if that's not politically incorrect to say any more) but the weather could turn at any time. Once it starts snowing, that area is out of reach until next July. I realize those are long odds, but the offer is truly there. The petrology professor and I are talking about going out there this weekend if the weather holds. She has the jeep. Two of the professors at Washington State U. down the road are very interested in the types of garnets I'm finding, with anywhere from one to three zones of growth, all in the same terrain. Up until now I've been collecting them for teaching but we need some systematic samples collected at precisely recorded localities for isotope dating. So far they have used a method called hafnium/lutetium dating that puts their earliest age at Precambrian, well over a billion years. I'd like to do some of these myself to see if my ages correlate; that would need to wait until I finish my thesis and if they have funding for me to hang around a few more months after I graduate. Don From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Nov 6 21:19:08 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Nov 6 21:19:11 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite In-Reply-To: <473139BB.6060404@verizon.net> References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash><002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook><000701c82015$a46fc6d0$550ba118@feldsparflash> <472FC69D.2080309@verizon.net> <003b01c82019$2ab22b90$0200a8c0@Notebook> <473139BB.6060404@verizon.net> Message-ID: We looked it up on the map, and unfortunately, it is too far for us to drive and be back in Salt Lake City by Saturday night for goodbyes to family and new granddaughter before heading back to Mobile, AL on a flight Sunday. We went to the Moab area last week and did some collecting, including a nice grape jasper-agate nodule full of blue celestite Jeanette found. Mostly we were sightseeing. I wanted a specimen from the uranium mine but... I'll do a more complete report when we slow up. Glenn > Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2007 20:06:19 -0800> From: donhalterman@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Glenn Wimpee wrote:> > How far is it from SLC?> > > > Are you serious about going now?> > > Well, if that is Salt Lake City, it's about 1.5 hrs. flight from SLC to > Lewiston Airport, then about 3 hrs. drive to the mighty terrain where > kyanites and andalusites are as big as Snickers bars and garnets are too > big to lift. In all seriousness, yes if someone could make it here soon > I would take them out, as long as they provide a high-clearance vehicle > (which I do not have; mine gets me pretty far, but not as far as where > we need to go). We are having an Indian summer right now (if that's not > politically incorrect to say any more) but the weather could turn at any > time. Once it starts snowing, that area is out of reach until next > July. I realize those are long odds, but the offer is truly there.> > The petrology professor and I are talking about going out there this > weekend if the weather holds. She has the jeep. Two of the professors > at Washington State U. down the road are very interested in the types of > garnets I'm finding, with anywhere from one to three zones of growth, > all in the same terrain. Up until now I've been collecting them for > teaching but we need some systematic samples collected at precisely > recorded localities for isotope dating. So far they have used a method > called hafnium/lutetium dating that puts their earliest age at > Precambrian, well over a billion years. I'd like to do some of these > myself to see if my ages correlate; that would need to wait until I > finish my thesis and if they have funding for me to hang around a few > more months after I graduate.> > > Don> > > > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at last. ?Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny at lrream.com Wed Nov 7 09:26:29 2007 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Wed Nov 7 09:26:36 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite In-Reply-To: <473139BB.6060404@verizon.net> References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash><002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook><000701c82015$a46fc6d0$550ba118@feldsparflash> <472FC69D.2080309@verizon.net> <003b01c82019$2ab22b90$0200a8c0@Notebook> <473139BB.6060404@verizon.net> Message-ID: <2bea95a77c5f6bbb89b36748d5a801e4@lrream.com> Don was dreamy eyed when he wrote that; he's probably fully awake today. The weather just changed to rainy with forecasts of snow in the mountains. Funny thing about that forecast, a forecast of rain with snow in the mountains didn't exist until the weather changed (must be a weather postcaste). If Don still wants to go, he better be sure one of his professors has a really good 4-wheel drive, it might be very useful. I'm going to chicken out and not ask to tag along. Regards, Lanny (stuck indoors until spring, or later) On Nov 6, 2007, at 8:06 PM, DonH wrote: > Glenn Wimpee wrote: >> How far is it from SLC? >> Are you serious about going now? > > > Well, if that is Salt Lake City, it's about 1.5 hrs. flight from SLC > to Lewiston Airport, then about 3 hrs. drive to the mighty terrain > where kyanites and andalusites are as big as Snickers bars and garnets > are too big to lift. In all seriousness, yes if someone could make it > here soon I would take them out, as long as they provide a > high-clearance vehicle (which I do not have; mine gets me pretty far, > but not as far as where we need to go). We are having an Indian > summer right now (if that's not politically incorrect to say any more) > but the weather could turn at any time. Once it starts snowing, that > area is out of reach until next July. I realize those are long odds, > but the offer is truly there. > > The petrology professor and I are talking about going out there this > weekend if the weather holds. She has the jeep. Two of the > professors at Washington State U. down the road are very interested in > the types of garnets I'm finding, with anywhere from one to three > zones of growth, all in the same terrain. Up until now I've been > collecting them for teaching but we need some systematic samples > collected at precisely recorded localities for isotope dating. So far > they have used a method called hafnium/lutetium dating that puts their > earliest age at Precambrian, well over a billion years. I'd like to > do some of these myself to see if my ages correlate; that would need > to wait until I finish my thesis and if they have funding for me to > hang around a few more months after I graduate. > > > Don > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Nov 7 09:36:07 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Nov 7 09:33:57 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite In-Reply-To: <2bea95a77c5f6bbb89b36748d5a801e4@lrream.com> References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash><002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook><000701c82015$a46fc6d0$550ba118@feldsparflash> <472FC69D.2080309@verizon.net> <003b01c82019$2ab22b90$0200a8c0@Notebook> <473139BB.6060404@verizon.net> <2bea95a77c5f6bbb89b36748d5a801e4@lrream.com> Message-ID: <4731F787.8040607@verizon.net> Lanny wrote: > Don was dreamy eyed when he wrote that; he's probably fully awake today. > > The weather just changed to rainy with forecasts of snow in the > mountains. Funny thing about that forecast, a forecast of rain with snow > in the mountains didn't exist until the weather changed (must be a > weather postcaste). Indeed I just addressed that with someone off-list. It is overcast today and there is a solid expectation of rain within the next few days. There is an automated snow station on Crater Peak, not far from where we would be going, and it shows rising and falling snow levels. So it won't be worth the risk. Looking forward to summer! Disappointed Don From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Nov 7 09:37:06 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Nov 7 09:37:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite In-Reply-To: <2bea95a77c5f6bbb89b36748d5a801e4@lrream.com> References: <002501c8200c$9562ddc0$550ba118@feldsparflash><002801c82012$e760a570$0200a8c0@Notebook><000701c82015$a46fc6d0$550ba118@feldsparflash> <472FC69D.2080309@verizon.net> <003b01c82019$2ab22b90$0200a8c0@Notebook> <473139BB.6060404@verizon.net> <2bea95a77c5f6bbb89b36748d5a801e4@lrream.com> Message-ID: Good thing we're headed south soon. Glenn > From: lanny@lrream.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Garnet & Kyanite> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 09:26:29 -0800> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Don was dreamy eyed when he wrote that; he's probably fully awake today.> > The weather just changed to rainy with forecasts of snow in the > mountains. Funny thing about that forecast, a forecast of rain with > snow in the mountains didn't exist until the weather changed (must be a > weather postcaste).> > If Don still wants to go, he better be sure one of his professors has a > really good 4-wheel drive, it might be very useful. I'm going to > chicken out and not ask to tag along.> > Regards,> > Lanny (stuck indoors until spring, or later)> > On Nov 6, 2007, at 8:06 PM, DonH wrote:> > > Glenn Wimpee wrote:> >> How far is it from SLC?> >> Are you serious about going now?> >> >> > Well, if that is Salt Lake City, it's about 1.5 hrs. flight from SLC > > to Lewiston Airport, then about 3 hrs. drive to the mighty terrain > > where kyanites and andalusites are as big as Snickers bars and garnets > > are too big to lift. In all seriousness, yes if someone could make it > > here soon I would take them out, as long as they provide a > > high-clearance vehicle (which I do not have; mine gets me pretty far, > > but not as far as where we need to go). We are having an Indian > > summer right now (if that's not politically incorrect to say any more) > > but the weather could turn at any time. Once it starts snowing, that > > area is out of reach until next July. I realize those are long odds, > > but the offer is truly there.> >> > The petrology professor and I are talking about going out there this > > weekend if the weather holds. She has the jeep. Two of the > > professors at Washington State U. down the road are very interested in > > the types of garnets I'm finding, with anywhere from one to three > > zones of growth, all in the same terrain. Up until now I've been > > collecting them for teaching but we need some systematic samples > > collected at precisely recorded localities for isotope dating. So far > > they have used a method called hafnium/lutetium dating that puts their > > earliest age at Precambrian, well over a billion years. I'd like to > > do some of these myself to see if my ages correlate; that would need > > to wait until I finish my thesis and if they have funding for me to > > hang around a few more months after I graduate.> >> >> > Don> >> >> >> > -- > > _______________________________________________> > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> > Subscription Services:> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html> >> >> > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Nov 7 13:23:15 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Nov 7 13:23:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water Ice on Mars! In-Reply-To: <20071107.130841.25555.2@webmail10.dca.untd.com> References: <20071107.130841.25555.2@webmail10.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Have you seen the crater on mars with water ice? Don King in the Mobile Club said way back that some of the rocks indicated for certain that water is present there. Look at this picture! http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagegallery/igviewer.php?gid=363 Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Nov 7 16:21:45 2007 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Nov 7 16:21:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] NOVA documentary "Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial" Message-ID: <005701c8219d$585078b0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> The following was sent to me today and may be of interest to some on this list. Alan On Tuesday, November 13, NOVA will be presenting a special two-hour documentary on the Kitzmiller v. Dover case, the first legal test of intelligent design as a scientific theory. "Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial" uses trial reenactments and interviews with expert scientists as well as with Dover parents, teachers, and town officials to capture the story behind the controversy that erupted in Dover in 2005. As a Voice for Evolution, your organization has taken a public stand on the debate over the teaching of evolution, and we hope you will help us spread the word about this important NOVA. Please consider telling your members and colleagues about "Judgment Day" by posting about it on your Web site, passing along the attached e-card, or mentioning it in your newsletter. I've also attached a press release with more in-depth background on the show and the production team. You can learn more about the show at our companion Web site, http://www.pbs.org/nova/id, and I invite you to watch a short preview of "Judgment Day" on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiEP-XSApgY "Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial" will premiere Tuesday, November 13 at 8PM ET/PT on most PBS stations. Please check your local listings to confirm when it will be broadcast near you: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/schedule-local.html. Please let me know if I can provide any additional information. Thanks, and enjoy the show! Best wishes, NOVA -- Kate Becker NOVA Promotion 617.300.4383 | kathryn_becker@wgbh.org www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 7 21:10:40 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 7 20:46:42 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks Message-ID: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> I got my Club's Newsletter today and it contained a reprint article that you can see online in the BackBenders Gazette on page 35 at http://www.hgms.org/BBG/Jul07.pdf Dr. Ivan Watkins believes that the Incas used 10-12 foot parabolic reflectors to concentrate sunlight into a 6000 watt beam that was able to slice the stone blocks they used to build their massive cities. BTW, the article I referenced says rocks can be cut with a 10 watt laser. Other references indicate 1000 watts is the correct figure. I have visited Teotihuacan and have seen the precision of the Inca construction. This is an explanation I can accept. I hope you find it as interesting as I did. Kreigh From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Nov 7 21:49:34 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Nov 7 21:49:36 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moab Trip Report In-Reply-To: <20071107223734.ul3nomvdw0k08gg8@webmail2.centurytel.net> References: <20071107223734.ul3nomvdw0k08gg8@webmail2.centurytel.net> Message-ID: Jeanette and I left Salt Lake City Wednesday 10-31-2007 and drove the scenic route over the San Raphael Swell to Moab. We stopped at a little portable BarBQ trailer in Salina and took 2 delicious dinners with us to Moab. There we ate them as we sat just off the Colorado River after sunset and stargazed. Thursday morning we overslept before hitting the trail up to Delicate Arch. Amazing formations including agate, green uranium ore, and of course the sandstone and slick rock formed the trail. Awesome, spectacular views accompanied us as we hiked up to the iconic arch. We then drove through Canyonlands N.P. where we saw the trailhead and switchback of the Shafer Trail. Farther in the Grand View Point overlooks the confluence of the green and Colorado Rivers. Friday's first stop was a big green mound on open land where we picked up a few very rough unpromising pieces I suspect are not very radioactive. It was apparent we were not the first nor only rockhounds to visit and dig there. We had no company except for a trailer with a "toy box" that likely held 4 wheelers or motocross bikes. Next we drove to the Yellow Cat Road where we saw eagles feeding on dead coyotes or wolves at a corral. Down the road a few miles we went over a ridge and found fields of petrified wood, agate, and various rocks and minerals. Our favorite pieces we collected there are small branches of very white petrified wood. Layers of black, cream, and green rock were exposed on the rolling plain. Most of the petrified wood is very, very dark, almost black. Driving on we came to the famous Big Tire Fork. The middle tine trails leads roughly (literally) past several claims with the green stuff piled high at several mines. There is a spring but it is fenced off. A very beautiful scenic trail to nowhere that had several spots requiring 4WD and ended on top of a slick rock hill. >From there the next stop was in a field of barite jasper grape agate nodules. Many are geodic and contain crystals. All we saw were softball size and smaller. Jeanette picked up one which we cracked and found filled with celestite. There are millions lying exposed on the surface. Lots are already cracked and filled with red sandy dirt which makes the inner crystals difficult to see. We did the best we could at high grading and kept only a few. Again the scenery is awesome. Book cliffs along the trail and the San Raphael Swell to the west. Pictures will be posted on our website soon and I'll post the link when they're up. Thanks for reading. Your comments are welcomed. Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Thu Nov 8 05:29:39 2007 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu Nov 8 05:29:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> Ah, that was a good laugh, thanks. Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Business: http://www.element51.com Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 12:10 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks >I got my Club's Newsletter today and it contained a reprint article that > you can see online in the BackBenders Gazette on page 35 at > > http://www.hgms.org/BBG/Jul07.pdf > > Dr. Ivan Watkins believes that the Incas used 10-12 foot parabolic > reflectors to concentrate sunlight into a 6000 watt beam that was able > to slice the stone blocks they used to build their massive cities. > > BTW, the article I referenced says rocks can be cut with a 10 watt > laser. Other references indicate 1000 watts is the correct figure. > > I have visited Teotihuacan and have seen the precision of the Inca > construction. This is an explanation I can accept. I hope you find it as > interesting as I did. > > Kreigh > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Nov 8 07:16:45 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Nov 8 07:16:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks In-Reply-To: <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> Did some research... 1990 article. They tried to replicate it on a PBS Nova show, but couldn't. Only 2 pages of Google links on a search for "Ivan Watkins" and "Inca". There's no "Ivan Watkins" at St. Cloud State as of 2007. Now, if them thar Incas had a LASER, I could believe it... gcb > > >I got my Club's Newsletter today and it contained a reprint > article that > > you can see online in the BackBenders Gazette on page 35 at > > > > http://www.hgms.org/BBG/Jul07.pdf From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 8 07:53:06 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 8 07:53:42 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks In-Reply-To: <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> Gary Brown wrote: > Did some research... 1990 article. They tried to replicate it on a PBS > Nova show, but couldn't. Only 2 pages of Google links on a search for "Ivan > Watkins" and "Inca". There's no "Ivan Watkins" at St. Cloud State as of > 2007. Indeed... A simple recall of high school mathematics will remind us that parabolas focus incoming rays at a point. Conversely, rays emanating from the focal point will be reflected in parallel. Satellite dishes are not parabolas, they are offset parabolic sections. If the Incas had such a technology, they would have been clearing forests, reshaping the landscape, and most likely, laying waste to enemies. The use of such tools would have been legendary and would have certainly been noted by the Spaniards. This goes to show that someone can have a PhD and still be an idiot. Don From BNMJEFF at aol.com Thu Nov 8 08:15:58 2007 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 8 08:16:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks Message-ID: I think another interesting fact in the article was that he said he first noticed "a glaze on the wall of a cave" How could they use sunlight to cut stone in a cave??? Jeff ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rico at ricosweb.net Thu Nov 8 08:17:51 2007 From: rico at ricosweb.net (Rich Allen) Date: Thu Nov 8 08:17:57 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks In-Reply-To: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <473336AF.3090506@ricosweb.net> Occam's razor still applies, even if it's an obsidian razor. The Incas used the same technology that produced the stone spheres of Costa Rica, the Moai of Easter Island, and probably hundreds of other examples; they beat on big rocks with smaller rocks, skillfully. Rich Allen (not a PhD) From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 8 08:26:47 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 8 08:24:41 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] petrified wood from Glass Buttes, OR? In-Reply-To: <200711011253.lA1CrdCI029639@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200711011253.lA1CrdCI029639@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <473338C7.8040303@verizon.net> Howdy, One of my neighbors, in return for giving him some knappable obsidian I bought at the Barter Faire, gave me a large piece of material from Glass Buttes. I said, "oh wow, petrified wood!" He said no, it's obsidian. Now, it is about 2 ft. long and shaped like a tree section, dull brick red, with ring structure and little openings or channels (xylem? phloem? I can't remember my biology!) arranged in regular patterns. The rings are eccentrically shaped, not really rings at all, but they are layered distinctly from inward out. On the outer surface, the breakage pattern reveals thin layers. Everything about this says wood to me. But he says there are huge formations of it near Glass Buttes. I didn't want to argue. Perhaps he is confusing this with mahogany obisidian (which has a more orange hue and is glassy, not dull?) Does this sound like something anyone has seen at Glass Buttes? I can provide a photo later. best, Don From nospam at orerockon.com Thu Nov 8 08:37:13 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 8 08:38:13 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] petrified wood from Glass Buttes, OR? In-Reply-To: <473338C7.8040303@verizon.net> References: <200711011253.lA1CrdCI029639@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <473338C7.8040303@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200711081637.lA8GbbSL017934@bubbleator.drizzle.com> No. Sounds like petrified wood. There is mahogany, black, and sheen obsidian and misc. volcanic rock at Glass Buttes. There is opalite/myrickite next door at the old mercury mines. The closest petrified wood is at Hampton Buttes and your piece doesn't sound like it comes from there (it's usually green or "woody" colors, not red). What is your neighbor smoking? :D At 08:26 AM 11/8/2007, you wrote: >Howdy, > >One of my neighbors, in return for giving him some knappable >obsidian I bought at the Barter Faire, gave me a large piece of >material from Glass Buttes. I said, "oh wow, petrified wood!" He >said no, it's obsidian. Now, it is about 2 ft. long and shaped like >a tree section, dull brick red, with ring structure and little >openings or channels (xylem? phloem? I can't remember my biology!) >arranged in regular patterns. The rings are eccentrically shaped, >not really rings at all, but they are layered distinctly from inward >out. On the outer surface, the breakage pattern reveals thin >layers. Everything about this says wood to me. But he says there >are huge formations of it near Glass Buttes. I didn't want to >argue. Perhaps he is confusing this with mahogany obisidian (which >has a more orange hue and is glassy, not dull?) Does this sound >like something anyone has seen at Glass Buttes? > >I can provide a photo later. > >best, >Don Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From pmodreski at aol.com Thu Nov 8 08:48:54 2007 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 8 08:49:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks In-Reply-To: <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> Message-ID: <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> Yes, I was going to write back about this too.? I remember seeing this on Nova also.? I think it is really really really unlikely that the Incas could have done this.? As I wrote to a friend about this just now, "if it was that easy, they'd all be doing it". I do know there are stories about the Greeks (Archimedes??) using light from a row of polished?metal mirrors?as a weapon, to set enemy ships on fire; I haven't checked to see how far this is toward fact and not legend. Pete -----Original Message----- From: DonH To: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 8:53 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks Gary Brown wrote:? > Did some research... 1990 article. They tried to replicate it on a PBS? > Nova show, but couldn't. Only 2 pages of Google links on a search for "Ivan? > Watkins" and "Inca". There's no "Ivan Watkins" at St. Cloud State as of? > 2007.? ? Indeed... A simple recall of high school mathematics will remind us that parabolas focus incoming rays at a point. Conversely, rays emanating from the focal point will be reflected in parallel. Satellite dishes are not parabolas, they are offset parabolic sections. If the Incas had such a technology, they would have been clearing forests, reshaping the landscape, and most likely, laying waste to enemies. The use of such tools would have been legendary and would have certainly been noted by the Spaniards.? ? This goes to show that someone can have a PhD and still be an idiot.? ? Don? ? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Nov 8 09:02:14 2007 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Nov 8 09:02:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks In-Reply-To: <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> On 11/8/07, pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > > > Yes, I was going to write back about this too.? I remember seeing this on > Nova also.? I think it is really really really unlikely that the Incas could > have done this.? As I wrote to a friend about this just now, "if it was that > easy, they'd all be doing it". > > > > I do know there are stories about the Greeks (Archimedes??) using light > from a row of polished?metal mirrors?as a weapon, to set enemy ships on > fire; I haven't checked to see how far this is toward fact and not legend. > > Pete Pete, There was a Mythbusters episode about this... they pretty much busted it... Here is a site, < http://web.mit.edu/2.009/www//experiments/deathray/10_Mythbusters.html> Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 8 09:07:03 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 8 09:06:15 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] petrified wood from Glass Buttes, OR? In-Reply-To: <200711081637.lA8GbbSL017934@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200711011253.lA1CrdCI029639@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <473338C7.8040303@verizon.net> <200711081637.lA8GbbSL017934@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <47334237.4090601@verizon.net> Tim Fisher wrote: > No. Sounds like petrified wood. There is mahogany, black, and sheen > obsidian and misc. volcanic rock at Glass Buttes. There is > opalite/myrickite next door at the old mercury mines. The closest > petrified wood is at Hampton Buttes and your piece doesn't sound like it > comes from there (it's usually green or "woody" colors, not red). What > is your neighbor smoking? :D Thanks for the quick answer... so you're saying there is no petrified wood at Glass Buttes? I will ask him EXACTLY where he got it. Be nice... this is just a case of someone trying to give the best explanation they have with what they know. I could imagine someone mistaking this for a piece of pahoe'hoe flow. photo later this evening. Best, Don From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Nov 8 09:17:27 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Nov 8 09:17:32 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks In-Reply-To: <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net><001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior><005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net><8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <009c01c8222b$3d062490$6b01a8c0@okapi> But it CAN be done! Here's a chap that made a "killer" unit with an old satellite dish: http://www.cockeyed.com/incredible/solardish/dish01.shtml GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Drew > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:02 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks > > On 11/8/07, pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Yes, I was going to write back about this too.? I remember > seeing this > > on Nova also.? I think it is really really really unlikely that the > > Incas could have done this.? As I wrote to a friend about this just > > now, "if it was that easy, they'd all be doing it". > > > > > > > > I do know there are stories about the Greeks (Archimedes??) using > > light from a row of polished?metal mirrors?as a weapon, to > set enemy > > ships on fire; I haven't checked to see how far this is > toward fact and not legend. > > > > Pete From nospam at orerockon.com Thu Nov 8 09:23:05 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 8 09:23:42 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Death Rays In-Reply-To: <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com > References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200711081723.lA8HNest016884@bubbleator.drizzle.com> The link you sent is dead. Here is a relevant synopsis. Archimedes Burn-Off. The original ancient death ray episode generated so much rebuttal from fans that the team dedicated an entire episode to revsiting this one myth. So after reviewing a whole stack of DVDs submitted by fans, two teams are selected to come to San Francisco for the small-scale burn off to see if they can set something afire at five feet. The guys have a small parabolic mirror that works well (nine seconds!), but it doesn't work at five feet. The girls do okay but it takes a couple minutes, and they don't work at five feet either. So both teams have 24 hours to come up with new rigs. Neither team does all that well, but the guys do manage to set the hemp material on fire and are declared the victors. One guy is invited for the large scale burn-off, to set something afire at 100 feet, but his massive mirror is busted up during shipping so we never get to see it in action. Adam also builds a disco death ray from an old satellite dish and it seems to do pretty well but it doesn't go five feet either, so he is disqualified too. Luckily it seems that some students at MIT were inspired by the last episode and they managed to set a small boat replica afire with some mirrors, so some people from MIT are invited to help setup a larger test with 300 bronze mirrors to see if it works. They get lots of smoke but they can't do it at the full distance and only get fire at 75 feet, which is half what they wanted. In the end, there are seven reasons why this myth is Busted: * The Compass * In San Francisco the noonday sun generated 450 degrees of heat from 300 bronze mirrors at 140 feet (the distance of an arrow shot). If Archimedes had tried this, the sun would have been weaker, producing even less of a result. * The Weather * Clouds can render the weapon useless. Are you going to carry more than 300 mirrors into battle on the off chance that it will rain that day? * Roman Boats Were Moving * It's a great choice if your opponent will come close enough to you that you can focus the beam and then not come any closer. But like the weather, those aren't very good odds. * "Inflammable" Sails * The sails being mostly light-colored reflects the heat, plus their movement in the wind means they don't even smoke, much less catch fire, so they aren't a good choice. * History * The history books don't mention fire for 800 years, and no mirrors or "death rays" are mentioned for nearly 1200 years. * Scale * You need some 300 mirrors to produce smoke. How many are required to create fire again? * Alternative Weapons * Even a novice archer can fire an arrow 300 feet or so. Set one of those on fire and alleviate the need for all those mirrors (and the people to aim them, the time to set them and the need to tell the other boat to stand still while you do so). At 09:02 AM 11/8/2007, you wrote: >Pete, > >There was a Mythbusters episode about this... they pretty much busted it... >Here is a site, < >http://web.mit.edu/2.009/www//experiments/deathray/10_Mythbusters.html> > >Drew Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From dr00bert at gmail.com Thu Nov 8 09:59:13 2007 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Thu Nov 8 09:59:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Death Rays In-Reply-To: <200711081723.lA8HNest016884@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> <200711081723.lA8HNest016884@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <7aac8040711080959x3915230ap9429f0dda30cfb7e@mail.gmail.com> On 11/8/07, Tim Fisher wrote: > The link you sent is dead. Here is a relevant synopsis. Or maybe your computer is dead... since the link is quite alive... Here's a tinyurl instead... http://tinyurl.com/yu7e5x Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pmodreski at aol.com Thu Nov 8 10:02:40 2007 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 8 10:03:06 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks In-Reply-To: <009c01c8222b$3d062490$6b01a8c0@okapi> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net><001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior><005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net><8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> <009c01c8222b$3d062490$6b01a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <8C9F048AFF390C9-898-8B96@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> I'm accessing this email via my government terminal at the USGS right?now, and when I tried to look at this website our system blocked it with "The Website You Are Trying to Access May Not Be Appropriate", so I will not be looking at it right now, anyway. But, "way back" when I was in... I think it was junior high school, I used to like to mess with all kinds of science stuff, and one time I built a parabolic reflector, traced the shape out on cardboard or plywood and covered it with aluminum foil, to try to make a little solar furnace.? I found that if I put a test tube at the focus, and painted the outside bottom black to absorb more heat, I could boil water in it--that's as far as I good.? I was using a fairly steep parabola, so the focus was within my mirror/furnace; with a shallower curve, like a satellite dish, the focus would be further outside, though I'll bet getting a tight focus would require a progressively more exacting parabolic shape, the further away you want to focus it. Back to work, Pete But it CAN be done! Here's a chap that made a "killer" unit with an old satellite dish: http://www.cockeyed.com/incredible/solardish/dish01.shtml GcB -----Original Message----- From: Gary Brown To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 10:17 am Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks But it CAN be done! Here's a chap that made a "killer" unit with an old satellite dish: http://www.cockeyed.com/incredible/solardish/dish01.shtml GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Drew > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:02 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks > > On 11/8/07, pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Yes, I was going to write back about this too.? I remember > seeing this > > on Nova also.? I think it is really really really unlikely that the > > Incas could have done this.? As I wrote to a friend about this just > > now, "if it was that easy, they'd all be doing it". > > > > > > > > I do know there are stories about the Greeks (Archimedes??) using > > light from a row of polished?metal mirrors?as a weapon, to > set enemy > > ships on fire; I haven't checked to see how far this is > toward fact and not legend. > > > > Pete -- ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 8 10:12:14 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 8 10:10:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks In-Reply-To: <009c01c8222b$3d062490$6b01a8c0@okapi> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net><001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior><005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net><8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> <009c01c8222b$3d062490$6b01a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <4733517E.30800@verizon.net> Gary Brown wrote: > But it CAN be done! Here's a chap that made a "killer" unit with an old > satellite dish: > > http://www.cockeyed.com/incredible/solardish/dish01.shtml > > GcB Oh yes, solar cookers do work! I had a small, hand-sized solar fire starter, and I think Edmund Scientific still sells a few solar cookers and experimentation units. It doesn't take much. In the end, they still must be pointed at the sun and the energy is concentrated at the focal point. Due to the mathematical nature of the parabola, the focal point is usually not far from the minimum of the curve (I really encouage people to check this out on a web search). In order to work well, the parabola must be machined precisely (remember the Hubble telescope). Bottom line: if the Inca thing could work specifically to make precision cuts in stone, imagine what we'd all be doing with such mirrors! best, Don From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Nov 8 10:12:26 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Nov 8 10:12:29 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Death Rays In-Reply-To: <200711081723.lA8HNest016884@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> <200711081723.lA8HNest016884@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Back to melting stone. The MP of silicates rocks is supposedly around 1200 deg C. Which is way above the temps these people are claiming, which are 600 deg at best. And since I don't think they are finding little solidified rock globules on the surface of these cut stones they required temp would have to be at the vaporization temp not the melting point. As for a gold reflector, they say it was two men high. Lets call it 3 meters. A 3 meter disk of gold, say 10 cm thick would weigh about 13000 kg by my back of the envelope calculation. Now I think that modern mechanical engineers might find it to be a difficult design task to come up with a mount that would allow you to precisely aim a 3 meter disk weighing 13,000kg to plus or minus a millimeter or so. Assuming this system would have to be in the capabilities of stone age craftsmen to build. And that doesn't take into account the weight of the mounting system. BK On Nov 8, 2007 12:23 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > The link you sent is dead. Here is a relevant synopsis. > > Archimedes Burn-Off. The original ancient death ray episode generated > so much rebuttal from fans that the team dedicated an entire episode > to revsiting this one myth. So after reviewing a whole stack of DVDs > submitted by fans, two teams are selected to come to San Francisco > for the small-scale burn off to see if they can set something afire > at five feet. > > The guys have a small parabolic mirror that works well (nine > seconds!), but it doesn't work at five feet. The girls do okay but it > takes a couple minutes, and they don't work at five feet either. So > both teams have 24 hours to come up with new rigs. Neither team does > all that well, but the guys do manage to set the hemp material on > fire and are declared the victors. > > One guy is invited for the large scale burn-off, to set something > afire at 100 feet, but his massive mirror is busted up during > shipping so we never get to see it in action. > Adam also builds a disco death > ray from an old satellite dish and it seems to do pretty well but it > doesn't go five feet either, so he is disqualified too. > > Luckily it seems that some students at MIT were inspired by the last > episode and they managed to set a small boat replica afire with some > mirrors, so some people from MIT are invited to help setup a larger > test with 300 bronze mirrors to see if it works. They get lots of > smoke but they can't do it at the full distance and only get fire at > 75 feet, which is half what they wanted. > > In the end, there are seven reasons why this myth is Busted: > * The Compass > * In San Francisco the noonday sun generated 450 degrees of heat > from 300 bronze mirrors at 140 feet (the distance of an arrow shot). > If Archimedes had tried this, the sun would have been weaker, > producing even less of a result. > * The Weather > * Clouds can render the weapon useless. Are you going to carry > more than 300 mirrors into battle on the off chance that it will rain > that day? > * Roman Boats Were Moving > * It's a great choice if your opponent will come close enough to > you that you can focus the beam and then not come any closer. But > like the weather, those aren't very good odds. > * "Inflammable" Sails > * The sails being mostly light-colored reflects the heat, plus > their movement in the wind means they don't even smoke, much less > catch fire, so they aren't a good choice. > * History > * The history books don't mention fire for 800 years, and no > mirrors or "death rays" are mentioned for nearly 1200 years. > * Scale > * You need some 300 mirrors to produce smoke. How many are > required to create fire again? > * Alternative Weapons > * Even a novice archer can fire an arrow 300 feet or so. Set one > of those on fire and alleviate the need for all those mirrors (and > the people to aim them, the time to set them and the need to tell the > other boat to stand still while you do so). > At 09:02 AM 11/8/2007, you wrote: > > >Pete, > > > >There was a Mythbusters episode about this... they pretty much busted > it... > >Here is a site, < > >http://web.mit.edu/2.009/www//experiments/deathray/10_Mythbusters.html> > > > >Drew > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Thu Nov 8 11:03:50 2007 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Thu Nov 8 11:03:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Address sought Message-ID: <003901c8223a$19374800$4ba5d800$@dillen@skynet.be> Hi all, Does someone have accidentally the e-mail address of Fred Schuster for me ? I want to request his permission to re-publish one of his photos. If so, please let me know off list (for privacy reasons). Thanks and best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kcbaran at arczip.com Thu Nov 8 12:18:47 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Thu Nov 8 12:24:29 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] petrified wood from Glass Buttes, OR? In-Reply-To: <47334237.4090601@verizon.net> References: <200711011253.lA1CrdCI029639@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <473338C7.8040303@verizon.net> <200711081637.lA8GbbSL017934@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <47334237.4090601@verizon.net> Message-ID: <47336F27.4060504@arczip.com> Friends: I have been to Glass Butte only twice, but spent a lot of time traversing the Butte. I found nothing that looks like the description of the "wood". Lots of mahogany obsidian, some that is nearly all mahogany colored and dull, but still, clearly, obsidian and not wood. Chuck Baran DonH wrote: > Tim Fisher wrote: > >> No. Sounds like petrified wood. There is mahogany, black, and sheen >> obsidian and misc. volcanic rock at Glass Buttes. There is >> opalite/myrickite next door at the old mercury mines. The closest >> petrified wood is at Hampton Buttes and your piece doesn't sound like >> it comes from there (it's usually green or "woody" colors, not red). >> What is your neighbor smoking? :D > > > > Thanks for the quick answer... so you're saying there is no petrified > wood at Glass Buttes? > > I will ask him EXACTLY where he got it. > > Be nice... this is just a case of someone trying to give the best > explanation they have with what they know. I could imagine someone > mistaking this for a piece of pahoe'hoe flow. photo later this evening. > > Best, > Don > > From kadok at infowest.com Thu Nov 8 12:38:40 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Nov 8 12:37:23 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks In-Reply-To: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000f01c82247$5917bf10$0200a8c0@kadok> That was surely very interesting! And does sound quite logical. Also, I sure wish we had a great Club like yours, over here in our neck of the woods! Great newsletter! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 10:11 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks I got my Club's Newsletter today and it contained a reprint article that you can see online in the BackBenders Gazette on page 35 at http://www.hgms.org/BBG/Jul07.pdf Dr. Ivan Watkins believes that the Incas used 10-12 foot parabolic reflectors to concentrate sunlight into a 6000 watt beam that was able to slice the stone blocks they used to build their massive cities. BTW, the article I referenced says rocks can be cut with a 10 watt laser. Other references indicate 1000 watts is the correct figure. I have visited Teotihuacan and have seen the precision of the Inca construction. This is an explanation I can accept. I hope you find it as interesting as I did. Kreigh -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rik.dillen at skynet.be Thu Nov 8 14:00:05 2007 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Thu Nov 8 14:00:17 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann Message-ID: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> Dear friends, I was informed by his wife Christel that my good friend Axel Emmermann, as you all know a very active list member, has been taken to hospital yesterday with some vague health complaints. Today the outcome was that he has been close to a heart attack, and his situation requires urgent surgery. He will get about 3 bypasses early next week. At present he is kept in hospital for continuous follow up. Christel told me that he shows a lot of courage, and is convinced that he will feel much better after the surgery. In the next coming days/weeks he will, of course, not be able to answer any e-mails, but Christel is keeping an eye on his computer and inbox, and she will probably take printed messages to the hospital from time to time. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Thu Nov 8 14:20:00 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Nov 8 14:29:37 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann In-Reply-To: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <4732228300033CB8@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Dear Rik and List, Bill and I had the huge pleasure of meeting Axel and Christel and their son (daughter was out of town) in August 2006. We could not possibly have asked for better hosts. Axel took us sightseeing around his beloved Antwerp, and he and Christel served us a delicious meal in their home. Another night they took us to dinner at a fascinating restaurant. Finally Axel made inquiries and gave assistance in completing the next step of our travels. The visit with Axel and Christel remains one of the great highlights of a month long excursion in Europe. I would encourage everyone to think positive thoughts for Axel, and since laughter is the best medicine---and nobody enjoys humor more than Axel---if you have any funny greetings for Christel to convey to him, please do at: axel.emmermann@pandora.be Aloha, Kitty At 12:00 PM 11/8/2007, you wrote: >Dear friends, > >I was informed by his wife Christel that my good friend Axel >Emmermann, as you all know a very active list member, has >been taken to hospital yesterday with some vague health complaints. >Today the outcome was that he has been close to a >heart attack, and his situation requires urgent surgery. He will get >about 3 bypasses early next week. At present he is >kept in hospital for continuous follow up. Christel told me that he >shows a lot of courage, and is convinced that he >will feel much better after the surgery. > >In the next coming days/weeks he will, of course, not be able to >answer any e-mails, but Christel is keeping an eye on >his computer and inbox, and she will probably take printed messages >to the hospital from time to time. > >Best regards, From brenick at gmail.com Thu Nov 8 14:32:45 2007 From: brenick at gmail.com (Nick & Brenda Van Dyke) Date: Thu Nov 8 14:32:49 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks In-Reply-To: <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> Message-ID: <97175ae90711081432m70c38f71ud86177dbcc77dc2@mail.gmail.com> I thought the article was interesting enough to reprint. My "off the clock" job is to try to keep our club informed of club-related information. Along with that comes trying to fill blank pages. In that area, I aim to entertain. Glad to see at least it got this crowd talking :o) Brenda On 11/8/07, DonH wrote: > > Gary Brown wrote: > > Did some research... 1990 article. They tried to replicate it on a PBS > > Nova show, but couldn't. Only 2 pages of Google links on a search for > "Ivan > > Watkins" and "Inca". There's no "Ivan Watkins" at St. Cloud State as of > > 2007. > > > Indeed... A simple recall of high school mathematics will remind us that > parabolas focus incoming rays at a point. Conversely, rays emanating > from the focal point will be reflected in parallel. Satellite dishes > are not parabolas, they are offset parabolic sections. If the Incas had > such a technology, they would have been clearing forests, reshaping the > landscape, and most likely, laying waste to enemies. The use of such > tools would have been legendary and would have certainly been noted by > the Spaniards. > > This goes to show that someone can have a PhD and still be an idiot. > > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jpjunk at mc.net Thu Nov 8 15:26:01 2007 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Thu Nov 8 15:26:32 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Abrasives for tumbling Message-ID: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> Can anyone recommend a source for tumbling abrasives in small quantities ? All I'm finding are ( very expensive ) four ounce packs or ten and twenty-five pound lots. A pound or two would last me for a year. Thanks, John From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Thu Nov 8 16:03:47 2007 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Thu Nov 8 16:04:23 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Abrasives for tumbling In-Reply-To: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> References: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> Message-ID: <00c401c82264$014ac350$6738a8c0@D8YF2G81> My vote is for Kingsley North http://www.kingsleynorth.com For tumbling grit see http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/products.php?catID=439 I have bought the 1 pound kits in the past and like them They also have 5 pound kits and for the Tim Allen's of the world 50 pound kits You can also pick and choose your grit at http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/search_results2.php?catID=141 No affiliation with them other than a very satisfied client Kay -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Junkroski Sent: November 8, 2007 6:26 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Abrasives for tumbling Can anyone recommend a source for tumbling abrasives in small quantities ? All I'm finding are ( very expensive ) four ounce packs or ten and twenty-five pound lots. A pound or two would last me for a year. Thanks, John -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jpjunk at mc.net Thu Nov 8 16:29:47 2007 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Thu Nov 8 16:30:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Abrasives for tumbling In-Reply-To: <00c401c82264$014ac350$6738a8c0@D8YF2G81> References: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> <00c401c82264$014ac350$6738a8c0@D8YF2G81> Message-ID: Thank you Kay. Exactly what I needed. John On Nov 8, 2007, at 6:03 PM, Kay Davis wrote: > My vote is for Kingsley North > > http://www.kingsleynorth.com > > For tumbling grit see > > http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/products.php?catID=439 > > I have bought the 1 pound kits in the past and like them > > They also have 5 pound kits and for the Tim Allen's of the world > 50 pound > kits > > You can also pick and choose your grit at > http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/search_results2.php?catID=141 > > No affiliation with them other than a very satisfied client > > Kay > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John > Junkroski > Sent: November 8, 2007 6:26 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Abrasives for tumbling > > Can anyone recommend a source for tumbling abrasives in small > quantities ? > > All I'm finding are ( very expensive ) four ounce packs or ten and > twenty-five pound lots. > > A pound or two would last me for a year. > > Thanks, > John > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > From ajs at frii.com Thu Nov 8 16:54:58 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Nov 8 16:55:01 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Abrasives for tumbling In-Reply-To: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> Message-ID: <20071109005458.6391F1CC35@io.frii.com> > Can anyone recommend a source for tumbling abrasives in small > quantities? Depends on whether they'll go that low in quantity, but Jesco Products has been far and away the cheapest for me, $/lb delivered to my doorstep, for many years, for coarse SiC (30) and fine (220), the latter of which I buy less often. I buy 100 lbs of each at a time. :-) And it's $1.50/lb or less. Otherwise I can only suggest web-hunting for best prices. You do know, right, that you can reuse prepolish and polish oxides? See: http://users.frii.com/ajs/RockTumbling.htm Alan Silverstein From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Nov 8 17:10:39 2007 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Nov 8 17:10:48 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Abrasives for tumbling In-Reply-To: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> References: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> Message-ID: <00dd01c8226d$57825cc0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> John: Surprisingly, or not, The Ruby City rock shop in Franklin NC is now online. You can find some tumbling grits in their online site, but I believe you can call them for other grits and amounts. http://www.rubycity.com/rock_tumblers Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of John Junkroski Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 6:26 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Abrasives for tumbling Can anyone recommend a source for tumbling abrasives in small quantities ? All I'm finding are ( very expensive ) four ounce packs or ten and twenty-five pound lots. A pound or two would last me for a year. Thanks, John -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From llbullbull at hotmail.com Thu Nov 8 17:45:14 2007 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Thu Nov 8 17:45:17 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann In-Reply-To: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: Can some please give Axel's email address.Thank you, Larry Bull > From: rik.dillen@skynet.be> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 23:00:05 +0100> Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann> > Dear friends,> > I was informed by his wife Christel that my good friend Axel Emmermann, as you all know a very active list member, has> been taken to hospital yesterday with some vague health complaints. Today the outcome was that he has been close to a> heart attack, and his situation requires urgent surgery. He will get about 3 bypasses early next week. At present he is> kept in hospital for continuous follow up. Christel told me that he shows a lot of courage, and is convinced that he> will feel much better after the surgery.> > In the next coming days/weeks he will, of course, not be able to answer any e-mails, but Christel is keeping an eye on> his computer and inbox, and she will probably take printed messages to the hospital from time to time.> > Best regards,> > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008> Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo)> > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!? Play Star Shuffle:? the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Thu Nov 8 18:24:54 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Nov 8 18:25:05 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann In-Reply-To: References: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <4724CD2900283A34@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) I repeat (maybe you didn't see it): I would encourage everyone to think positive thoughts for Axel, and since laughter is the best medicine---and nobody enjoys humor more than Axel---if you have any funny greetings for Christel to convey to him, please do at: axel.emmermann@pandora.be Aloha, Kitty At 03:45 PM 11/8/2007, you wrote: >Can some please give Axel's email address.Thank you, > >Larry Bull From jpjunk at mc.net Thu Nov 8 18:58:34 2007 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Thu Nov 8 18:58:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Abrasives for tumbling In-Reply-To: <20071109005458.6391F1CC35@io.frii.com> References: <20071109005458.6391F1CC35@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <0DAF2433-FDFD-44DC-982B-8DDBC9E2272B@mc.net> Thanks, Alan. I've been cutting cabochons for decades,but only recently bought a couple of tumblers. I didn't realize that I could re-cycle polish. Thanks for the tip. Nothing better than saving materials/money. John On Nov 8, 2007, at 6:54 PM, Alan Silverstein wrote: >> Can anyone recommend a source for tumbling abrasives in small >> quantities? >> > > Depends on whether they'll go that low in quantity, but Jesco Products > has been far and away the cheapest for me, $/lb delivered to my > doorstep, for many years, for coarse SiC (30) and fine (220), the > latter > of which I buy less often. I buy 100 lbs of each at a time. :-) > And it's $1.50/lb or less. > > Otherwise I can only suggest web-hunting for best prices. > > You do know, right, that you can reuse prepolish and polish oxides? > See: http://users.frii.com/ajs/RockTumbling.htm > > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Nov 8 20:18:37 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Nov 8 19:50:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Death Rays and melting stones References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> <200711081723.lA8HNest016884@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <4733D8FF.22C4@Tomaszewski.net> Bryan, 5780 C is the hottest a solar mirror could produce at focus by theory. Half that is readily attainable. A three meter dish puts out nearly 15,000 watts. If properly focused that is certainly enough energy to melt rocks (if they don't explode from the thermal stress). Even half that would work. Here is another 12 foot satellite dish converted into a solar mirror with a 4 inch focus spot http://www.cockeyed.com/incredible/solardish/dish01.shtml But I take exception to your 10 cm thickness. One cm (or less) would be used. You want to make your dish as thin as possible and still retain structural integrity. There is no need to make it that thick. BTW, the mirror of the Hale Telescope weighs about 13,000 kg, not counting the mounting assembly. I don't think weight would have been a real issue. Possible, yes. Probable, doubtful. But a light beam that could cut thru rock like a hot knife thru butter would certainly explain the incredible rock construction abilities of the Inca. Solar dishes are not a weapon that can be used at any distance; introduced disease, and greed for gold, by the european intruders could explain the loss of solar power knowledge. Hot enough to crack rock predictably from thermal stress is all that is needed -- actual melting probably was an exception. Interesting, you bet! Kreigh J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > Back to melting stone. The MP of silicates rocks is supposedly around 1200 > deg C. Which is way above the temps these people are claiming, which are 600 > deg at best. And since I don't think they are finding little solidified rock > globules on the surface of these cut stones they required temp would have to > be at the vaporization temp not the melting point. > > As for a gold reflector, they say it was two men high. Lets call it 3 > meters. A 3 meter disk of gold, say 10 cm thick would weigh about 13000 kg > by my back of the envelope calculation. Now I think that modern mechanical > engineers might find it to be a difficult design task to come up with a > mount that would allow you to precisely aim a 3 meter disk weighing 13,000kg > to plus or minus a millimeter or so. Assuming this system would have to be > in the capabilities of stone age craftsmen to build. And that doesn't take > into account the weight of the mounting system. > > BK > > On Nov 8, 2007 12:23 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > > > The link you sent is dead. Here is a relevant synopsis. > > > > Archimedes Burn-Off. The original ancient death ray episode generated > > so much rebuttal from fans that the team dedicated an entire episode > > to revsiting this one myth. So after reviewing a whole stack of DVDs > > submitted by fans, two teams are selected to come to San Francisco > > for the small-scale burn off to see if they can set something afire > > at five feet. > > > > The guys have a small parabolic mirror that works well (nine > > seconds!), but it doesn't work at five feet. The girls do okay but it > > takes a couple minutes, and they don't work at five feet either. So > > both teams have 24 hours to come up with new rigs. Neither team does > > all that well, but the guys do manage to set the hemp material on > > fire and are declared the victors. > > > > One guy is invited for the large scale burn-off, to set something > > afire at 100 feet, but his massive mirror is busted up during > > shipping so we never get to see it in action. > > Adam also builds a disco death > > ray from an old satellite dish and it seems to do pretty well but it > > doesn't go five feet either, so he is disqualified too. > > > > Luckily it seems that some students at MIT were inspired by the last > > episode and they managed to set a small boat replica afire with some > > mirrors, so some people from MIT are invited to help setup a larger > > test with 300 bronze mirrors to see if it works. They get lots of > > smoke but they can't do it at the full distance and only get fire at > > 75 feet, which is half what they wanted. > > > > In the end, there are seven reasons why this myth is Busted: > > * The Compass > > * In San Francisco the noonday sun generated 450 degrees of heat > > from 300 bronze mirrors at 140 feet (the distance of an arrow shot). > > If Archimedes had tried this, the sun would have been weaker, > > producing even less of a result. > > * The Weather > > * Clouds can render the weapon useless. Are you going to carry > > more than 300 mirrors into battle on the off chance that it will rain > > that day? > > * Roman Boats Were Moving > > * It's a great choice if your opponent will come close enough to > > you that you can focus the beam and then not come any closer. But > > like the weather, those aren't very good odds. > > * "Inflammable" Sails > > * The sails being mostly light-colored reflects the heat, plus > > their movement in the wind means they don't even smoke, much less > > catch fire, so they aren't a good choice. > > * History > > * The history books don't mention fire for 800 years, and no > > mirrors or "death rays" are mentioned for nearly 1200 years. > > * Scale > > * You need some 300 mirrors to produce smoke. How many are > > required to create fire again? > > * Alternative Weapons > > * Even a novice archer can fire an arrow 300 feet or so. Set one > > of those on fire and alleviate the need for all those mirrors (and > > the people to aim them, the time to set them and the need to tell the > > other boat to stand still while you do so). > > At 09:02 AM 11/8/2007, you wrote: > > > > >Pete, > > > > > >There was a Mythbusters episode about this... they pretty much busted > > it... > > >Here is a site, < > > >http://web.mit.edu/2.009/www//experiments/deathray/10_Mythbusters.html> > > > > > >Drew > > > > Tim Fisher > > Ore-ROCK-On! > > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Nov 8 20:44:10 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Nov 8 20:16:01 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann References: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <4733DEF9.75A8@Tomaszewski.net> Rik, Thank you for making us aware of our friend Axel's condition. My Prayers go out to Axel for healing, to the doctors for wisdom and skill, and to Christel for strength. Kreigh Rik Dillen wrote: > > Dear friends, > > I was informed by his wife Christel that my good friend Axel Emmermann, as you all know a very active list member, has > been taken to hospital yesterday with some vague health complaints. Today the outcome was that he has been close to a > heart attack, and his situation requires urgent surgery. He will get about 3 bypasses early next week. At present he is > kept in hospital for continuous follow up. Christel told me that he shows a lot of courage, and is convinced that he > will feel much better after the surgery. > > In the next coming days/weeks he will, of course, not be able to answer any e-mails, but Christel is keeping an eye on > his computer and inbox, and she will probably take printed messages to the hospital from time to time. > > Best regards, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Nov 8 21:00:59 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Nov 8 20:32:47 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Inca Indians Used Solar Power To Cut Rocks References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> <97175ae90711081432m70c38f71ud86177dbcc77dc2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4733E2E8.33E1@Tomaszewski.net> Fair disclosure: Brenda is my Club's Newsletter Editor that republished the article under discussion. I think she does a great job. Kreigh Nick & Brenda Van Dyke wrote: > > I thought the article was interesting enough to reprint. > > My "off the clock" job is to try to keep our club informed of club-related > information. Along with that comes trying to fill blank pages. In that > area, I aim to entertain. Glad to see at least it got this crowd talking > :o) > > Brenda > > On 11/8/07, DonH wrote: > > > > Gary Brown wrote: > > > Did some research... 1990 article. They tried to replicate it on a PBS > > > Nova show, but couldn't. Only 2 pages of Google links on a search for > > "Ivan > > > Watkins" and "Inca". There's no "Ivan Watkins" at St. Cloud State as of > > > 2007. > > > > > > Indeed... A simple recall of high school mathematics will remind us that > > parabolas focus incoming rays at a point. Conversely, rays emanating > > from the focal point will be reflected in parallel. Satellite dishes > > are not parabolas, they are offset parabolic sections. If the Incas had > > such a technology, they would have been clearing forests, reshaping the > > landscape, and most likely, laying waste to enemies. The use of such > > tools would have been legendary and would have certainly been noted by > > the Spaniards. > > > > This goes to show that someone can have a PhD and still be an idiot. > > > > Don > > > > From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Nov 8 21:19:49 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Nov 8 21:19:53 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Death Rays and melting stones In-Reply-To: <4733D8FF.22C4@Tomaszewski.net> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> <200711081723.lA8HNest016884@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4733D8FF.22C4@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: That 10 cm was a WAG, but considering the strength of gold as a structural material I wonder if a 1 cm thickness would be possible in a 3 meter disk. The Hale disk is of course horizontal and fully supported underneath and stationary. This 3 meter disk would be used vertically and manhandled around the quarry. Not the same sort of thing at all. BK > But I take exception to your 10 cm thickness. One cm (or less) would be > used. You want to make your dish as thin as possible and still retain > structural integrity. There is no need to make it that thick. BTW, the > mirror of the Hale Telescope weighs about 13,000 kg, not counting the > mounting assembly. I don't think weight would have been a real issue. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Nov 9 07:28:02 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Nov 9 07:28:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active Message-ID: Thought this might be of interest: BK -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet at centurytel.net Fri Nov 9 08:13:13 2007 From: geenet at centurytel.net (geenet@centurytel.net) Date: Fri Nov 9 08:13:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann In-Reply-To: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <20071109101313.4exyrj1v4o408w00@webmail2.centurytel.net> Tell him our hearts are with him, and wish him a speedy full recovery. No comments by Axel will leave big gaps of white space on the list. Jeanette Wimpee Quoting Rik Dillen : > He will get about 3 bypasses early next week. At present he is > kept in hospital for continuous follow up. Christel told me that he > shows a lot of courage, and is convinced that he > will feel much better after the surgery. From ajs at frii.com Fri Nov 9 10:15:23 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Fri Nov 9 10:15:26 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071109181523.9D9861CC35@io.frii.com> > This gives me an opportunity to recommend a recent but obscure (self-published?) work of fiction, "Yellowstone Farewell", which is about an explosion of the caldera in contemporary times. (Could it happen? Who knows? The timing is right...) The book was written by a geologist and includes amazingly semi-technical (educational) passages that would probably turn off laymen, but makes for fascinating reading for rockhounds. Also the story itself is pretty well done. I bought a copy from the author a year or two ago at a rock show in Wyoming. Hey, it's on Amazon, for instance... http://www.amazon.com/Yellowstone-Farewell-WAYNE-M-SUTHERLAND/dp/0972399909/ref=sr_1_1/002-9362533-2212842?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194632068&sr=8-1 Cheers, Alan Silverstein From ajs at frii.com Fri Nov 9 10:16:22 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Fri Nov 9 10:17:06 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Death Rays and melting stones In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071109181622.E90BF1CC35@io.frii.com> > That 10 cm was a WAG, but considering the strength of gold as a > structural material I wonder if a 1 cm thickness would be possible in > a 3 meter disk... But why would any smart person try to make a solid dish of the heavy, rare metal? I could picture something more like a wicker basket used to support a thin layer of foil. Alan Silverstein From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Nov 9 11:01:15 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Nov 9 11:01:09 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: <20071109181523.9D9861CC35@io.frii.com> References: <20071109181523.9D9861CC35@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <01a801c82302$e77bdbe0$6b01a8c0@okapi> And now there's one less on Amazon! I'll let the Huddled Masses know what I think. Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Alan Silverstein > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 12:15 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active > > > > > This gives me an opportunity to recommend a recent but obscure > (self-published?) work of fiction, "Yellowstone Farewell", > which is about an explosion of the caldera in contemporary > times. (Could it happen? Who knows? The timing is right...) > > The book was written by a geologist and includes amazingly > semi-technical (educational) passages that would probably > turn off laymen, but makes for fascinating reading for > rockhounds. Also the story itself is pretty well done. I > bought a copy from the author a year or two ago at a rock > show in Wyoming. > > Hey, it's on Amazon, for instance... > > http://www.amazon.com/Yellowstone-Farewell-WAYNE-M-SUTHERLAND/ dp/0972399909/ref=sr_1_1/002-9362533-2212842?ie=UTF8> &s=books&qid=1194632068&sr=8-1 > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein From libawc at emory.edu Fri Nov 9 11:07:46 2007 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita D. Westlake) Date: Fri Nov 9 11:08:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: <01a801c82302$e77bdbe0$6b01a8c0@okapi> References: <20071109181523.9D9861CC35@io.frii.com> <01a801c82302$e77bdbe0$6b01a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <005001c82303$d05cdd00$71169700$@edu> Make that two less... Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Gary Brown Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 2:01 PM To: ajs@frii.com; 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active And now there's one less on Amazon! I'll let the Huddled Masses know what I think. Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Alan Silverstein > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 12:15 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active > > > > > This gives me an opportunity to recommend a recent but obscure > (self-published?) work of fiction, "Yellowstone Farewell", > which is about an explosion of the caldera in contemporary > times. (Could it happen? Who knows? The timing is right...) > > The book was written by a geologist and includes amazingly > semi-technical (educational) passages that would probably > turn off laymen, but makes for fascinating reading for > rockhounds. Also the story itself is pretty well done. I > bought a copy from the author a year or two ago at a rock > show in Wyoming. > > Hey, it's on Amazon, for instance... > > http://www.amazon.com/Yellowstone-Farewell-WAYNE-M-SUTHERLAND/ dp/0972399909/ref=sr_1_1/002-9362533-2212842?ie=UTF8> &s=books&qid=1194632068&sr=8-1 > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From everbeek at ptd.net Thu Nov 8 13:23:17 2007 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Fri Nov 9 11:31:17 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] petrified wood from Glass Buttes, OR? References: <200711011253.lA1CrdCI029639@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <473338C7.8040303@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001a01c8224d$95dacdb0$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> Hi Don, I've seen obsidian flows that incorporate material that pretty well matches your description, where upon extrusion of the magma the gas-rich flow layers solidified as fine-grained rhyolite and other layers solidified as true glassy obsidian. Parts of such material do indeed resemble petrified wood at first glance. But hey, you're the optical min guy, so break off some frags from various layers and see if they're isotropic, and also look for microscopic, dustlike inclusions of opaque phases such as magnetite (if it's obsidian). It's a start.... Cheers- Earl ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:26 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] petrified wood from Glass Buttes, OR? > > > Howdy, > > One of my neighbors, in return for giving him some knappable obsidian I > bought at the Barter Faire, gave me a large piece of material from Glass > Buttes. I said, "oh wow, petrified wood!" He said no, it's obsidian. > Now, it is about 2 ft. long and shaped like a tree section, dull brick > red, with ring structure and little openings or channels (xylem? phloem? I > can't remember my biology!) arranged in regular patterns. The rings are > eccentrically shaped, not really rings at all, but they are layered > distinctly from inward out. On the outer surface, the breakage pattern > reveals thin layers. Everything about this says wood to me. But he says > there are huge formations of it near Glass Buttes. I didn't want to > argue. Perhaps he is confusing this with mahogany obisidian (which has a > more orange hue and is glassy, not dull?) Does this sound like something > anyone has seen at Glass Buttes? > > I can provide a photo later. > > best, > Don From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Nov 9 11:32:35 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Nov 9 11:32:48 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: <20071109181523.9D9861CC35@io.frii.com> References: <20071109181523.9D9861CC35@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <4734917500007D9A@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Paperback, no reviews, $55.00? I think I'll wait till it shows up at the library. Aloha, Kitty At 08:15 AM 11/9/2007, you wrote: > > > >This gives me an opportunity to recommend a recent but obscure >(self-published?) work of fiction, "Yellowstone Farewell", which is >about an explosion of the caldera in contemporary times. (Could it >happen? Who knows? The timing is right...) > >The book was written by a geologist and includes amazingly >semi-technical (educational) passages that would probably turn off >laymen, but makes for fascinating reading for rockhounds. Also the >story itself is pretty well done. I bought a copy from the author a >year or two ago at a rock show in Wyoming. > >Hey, it's on Amazon, for instance... > >http://www.amazon.com/Yellowstone-Farewell-WAYNE-M-SUTHERLAND/dp/0972399909/ref=sr_1_1/002-9362533-2212842?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194632068&sr=8-1 > >Cheers, >Alan Silverstein >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From ajs at frii.com Fri Nov 9 11:55:50 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Fri Nov 9 11:55:53 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: <005001c82303$d05cdd00$71169700$@edu> Message-ID: <20071109195550.E814F1CC35@io.frii.com> > Make that two less... Cool. Well, if you are like me, you'll probably think some of the passages are a little stiff, even like professorial lecturing, but I still enjoyed it, even went back later and reread the last few chapters. Obviously the characters and some of the organizations are fictional, but set against present day reality, so it can seem a little weird, but I still found it entertaining and memorable. See what you think. Alan From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Fri Nov 9 12:22:03 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Fri Nov 9 12:21:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: <4734917500007D9A@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) References: <20071109181523.9D9861CC35@io.frii.com> <4734917500007D9A@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) Message-ID: <01b301c8230e$318938d0$6b01a8c0@okapi> I got mine for $9.95 plus shipping. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kitty & Bill Heacox > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 1:33 PM > To: ajs@frii.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active > > Paperback, no reviews, $55.00? I think I'll wait till it > shows up at the library. > > Aloha, Kitty From brenick at gmail.com Fri Nov 9 12:21:57 2007 From: brenick at gmail.com (Nick & Brenda Van Dyke) Date: Fri Nov 9 12:22:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Death Rays and melting stones In-Reply-To: <20071109181622.E90BF1CC35@io.frii.com> References: <20071109181622.E90BF1CC35@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <97175ae90711091221h25a0252bs451f9b7a8508f224@mail.gmail.com> relgion, superstitions...why have a gold and diamond ring when lead would work? On 11/9/07, Alan Silverstein wrote: > > > That 10 cm was a WAG, but considering the strength of gold as a > > structural material I wonder if a 1 cm thickness would be possible in > > a 3 meter disk... > > But why would any smart person try to make a solid dish of the heavy, > rare metal? I could picture something more like a wicker basket used to > support a thin layer of foil. > > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Nov 9 13:35:46 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Nov 9 13:35:50 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: <20071109181523.9D9861CC35@io.frii.com> References: <20071109181523.9D9861CC35@io.frii.com> Message-ID: Pricey book. BK On Nov 9, 2007 1:15 PM, Alan Silverstein wrote: > > > > This gives me an opportunity to recommend a recent but obscure > (self-published?) work of fiction, "Yellowstone Farewell", which is > about an explosion of the caldera in contemporary times. (Could it > happen? Who knows? The timing is right...) > > The book was written by a geologist and includes amazingly > semi-technical (educational) passages that would probably turn off > laymen, but makes for fascinating reading for rockhounds. Also the > story itself is pretty well done. I bought a copy from the author a > year or two ago at a rock show in Wyoming. > > Hey, it's on Amazon, for instance... > > > http://www.amazon.com/Yellowstone-Farewell-WAYNE-M-SUTHERLAND/dp/0972399909/ref=sr_1_1/002-9362533-2212842?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194632068&sr=8-1 > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Nov 9 14:02:17 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Nov 9 14:02:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann In-Reply-To: <20071109101313.4exyrj1v4o408w00@webmail2.centurytel.net> References: <20071109101313.4exyrj1v4o408w00@webmail2.centurytel.net> Message-ID: I've never had the chance to meet Axel, but I think of him as a long distance friend and fine fellow all around. I will hold him in my prayers for a complete and swift recovery. BK On Nov 9, 2007 11:13 AM, wrote: > Tell him our hearts are with him, and wish him a speedy full recovery. No > comments by Axel will leave big gaps of white space on the list. > Jeanette Wimpee > > Quoting Rik Dillen : > > > He will get about 3 bypasses early next week. At present he is > > kept in hospital for continuous follow up. Christel told me that he > > shows a lot of courage, and is convinced that he > > will feel much better after the surgery. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 9 16:44:06 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 9 16:13:23 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Death Rays and melting stones References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <001d01c8220b$69ee2ae0$6400a8c0@Junior> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> <200711081723.lA8HNest016884@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4733D8FF.22C4@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4734F78D.8DA@Tomaszewski.net> The Hale disk is only horizontal when the telescope is pointing straight up. If the Inca's used a 3 meter disk for stonework they probably quarried the blocks conventionally and brought them to the stationary disk for dressing. Kreigh J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > That 10 cm was a WAG, but considering the strength of gold as a structural > material I wonder if a 1 cm thickness would be possible in a 3 meter disk. > The Hale disk is of course horizontal and fully supported underneath and > stationary. This 3 meter disk would be used vertically and manhandled around > the quarry. Not the same sort of thing at all. > > BK > > > But I take exception to your 10 cm thickness. One cm (or less) would be > > used. You want to make your dish as thin as possible and still retain > > structural integrity. There is no need to make it that thick. BTW, the > > mirror of the Hale Telescope weighs about 13,000 kg, not counting the > > mounting assembly. I don't think weight would have been a real issue. > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Nov 9 17:01:07 2007 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Nov 9 17:00:46 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active References: Message-ID: <005601c82335$2ceb0de0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> There is a major article in the current issue of Geotimes about the Yellowstone caldera. Before the Yellowstone caldera existed, the activity was in Idaho. There, three supervolcanic explosions spaced several hundred thousand years apart, occurred. The last explosion was preceeded by cannabalizing pre-existing rock in the upper part of the chamber (as indiciated by the O18 isotope abundance). Analysis indicates the magma source is currently cannabalized pre-existing rock and there have already been two previous super-volcano eruptions in Yellowstone. According to the current theory, after the next super eruption (anytime in the next 100,000 years or so), the caldera activity will move further east and the process will start all over again. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active > Thought this might be of interest: > > > > BK > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Nov 9 17:06:11 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Nov 9 17:06:15 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Death Rays and melting stones In-Reply-To: <4734F78D.8DA@Tomaszewski.net> References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> <200711081723.lA8HNest016884@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4733D8FF.22C4@Tomaszewski.net> <4734F78D.8DA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: And how would you hold a heavy block of stone precisely in the focal point of a 3 meter disk. The FP would be 1.5 meters in and what ever distance up. And then move it fractionally so it made an exact cut? BK On Nov 9, 2007 7:44 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > The Hale disk is only horizontal when the telescope is pointing straight > up. > > If the Inca's used a 3 meter disk for stonework they probably quarried > the blocks conventionally and brought them to the stationary disk for > dressing. > > Kreigh > > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > That 10 cm was a WAG, but considering the strength of gold as a > structural > > material I wonder if a 1 cm thickness would be possible in a 3 meter > disk. > > The Hale disk is of course horizontal and fully supported underneath and > > stationary. This 3 meter disk would be used vertically and manhandled > around > > the quarry. Not the same sort of thing at all. > > > > BK > > > > > But I take exception to your 10 cm thickness. One cm (or less) would > be > > > used. You want to make your dish as thin as possible and still retain > > > structural integrity. There is no need to make it that thick. BTW, the > > > mirror of the Hale Telescope weighs about 13,000 kg, not counting the > > > mounting assembly. I don't think weight would have been a real issue. > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Nov 9 17:19:13 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 9 17:19:15 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann In-Reply-To: <4732228300033CB8@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) References: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> <4732228300033CB8@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Message-ID: And prayers. Glenn > Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 12:20:00 -1000> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> From: kahako@hawaiiantel.net> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann> > Dear Rik and List,> > Bill and I had the huge pleasure of meeting Axel and Christel and > their son (daughter was out of town) in August 2006. We could not > possibly have asked for better hosts. Axel took us sightseeing > around his beloved Antwerp, and he and Christel served us a delicious > meal in their home. Another night they took us to dinner at a > fascinating restaurant. Finally Axel made inquiries and gave > assistance in completing the next step of our travels. The visit > with Axel and Christel remains one of the great highlights of a month > long excursion in Europe.> > I would encourage everyone to think positive thoughts for Axel, and > since laughter is the best medicine---and nobody enjoys humor more > than Axel---if you have any funny greetings for Christel to convey to > him, please do at: axel.emmermann@pandora.be> > Aloha, Kitty> > At 12:00 PM 11/8/2007, you wrote:> >Dear friends,> >> >I was informed by his wife Christel that my good friend Axel > >Emmermann, as you all know a very active list member, has> >been taken to hospital yesterday with some vague health complaints. > >Today the outcome was that he has been close to a> >heart attack, and his situation requires urgent surgery. He will get > >about 3 bypasses early next week. At present he is> >kept in hospital for continuous follow up. Christel told me that he > >shows a lot of courage, and is convinced that he> >will feel much better after the surgery.> >> >In the next coming days/weeks he will, of course, not be able to > >answer any e-mails, but Christel is keeping an eye on> >his computer and inbox, and she will probably take printed messages > >to the hospital from time to time.> >> >Best regards,> > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!? Play Star Shuffle:? the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 9 17:28:35 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 9 17:26:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Death Rays and melting stones In-Reply-To: References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> <200711081723.lA8HNest016884@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4733D8FF.22C4@Tomaszewski.net> <4734F78D.8DA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <47350943.3070303@verizon.net> J Bryan Kramer wrote: > And how would you hold a heavy block of stone precisely in the focal point > of a 3 meter disk. The FP would be 1.5 meters in and what ever distance up. > And then move it fractionally so it made an exact cut? Good point. And again, I would point out (as I did previously) that a parabola only focuses the rays at the focus when it is pointed directly at the source. That is why, when I look out my back window on to the lawn between the buildings, all the TV dishes are pointed in the same direction. Otherwise they wouldn't work. Therefore a block of stone would be in the way of the very light source needed to provide the energy. http://www.analyzemath.com/parabola/parabola_focus.html A parabola does not take energy from one direction and focus it in another direction. Period. Case closed. Don From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Nov 9 17:28:50 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Nov 9 17:29:04 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann In-Reply-To: References: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> <4732228300033CB8@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> Message-ID: <4734936E00013ABA@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Certainly prayers if you wish. I didn't mention them specifically because I know Axel is not religious. However any positive thoughts will undoubtedly be appreciated, and perhaps efficacious whether he believes it or not. ;-) Aloha, Kitty At 03:19 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: >And prayers. > >Glenn From sicree at verizon.net Fri Nov 9 17:54:18 2007 From: sicree at verizon.net (Sicree, Andrew, Ph.D.) Date: Fri Nov 9 17:37:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] [AD] Here's help for your club's newsletter - Popular Mineralogy Message-ID: POPULAR MINERALOGY can help your club grow! 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Recent topics have included: Diamonds, carbon and coal Saber tooth tigers James D. Dana Common types of ore deposits Weird geology Minerals in plants Mineral chemical formulas Collecting safety and much more... POPULAR MINERALOGY supplements can help your club. For more details, or to receive a free sample issue, please contact: Andrew A. Sicree, Ph.D. Professional Mineralogist P. O. Box 10664 State College, PA 16805 (814) 867-6263 Or contact me off-list at sicree@verizon.net To subscribe send check for $59.99 payable to "Andrew Sicree" to the above address. Hope to hear from you soon. Thank you, Sincerely, Andrew A. Sicree, Ph.D. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Nov 9 17:55:35 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Nov 9 17:56:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: <005601c82335$2ceb0de0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <005601c82335$2ceb0de0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <200711100156.lAA1uQNG016514@bubbleator.drizzle.com> That would be NV, OR, ID, they WY. We had a lecture a few years ago at the Portland Regional rock show from a prof studying the caldera. It has moved in a near perfect arc from McDermitt, NV through SE Idaho to Yellowstone in something like 50 million years. You can follow the progression from the stretching of the lithophysae aka thundereggs (no joke) left in its wake. They point toward the "hotspot's" next location. He followed them from McDermitt through Jackpot and Contact all the way to the ID border where they are lost in the Bonneville flood mess there. He couldn't backtrack the hotspot west past McDermitt NV but dollars to donuts it will show up in someone else's work. At 05:01 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: >There is a major article in the current issue of Geotimes about the >Yellowstone caldera. Before the Yellowstone caldera existed, the >activity was in Idaho. There, three supervolcanic explosions spaced >several hundred thousand years apart, occurred. The last explosion >was preceeded by cannabalizing pre-existing rock in the upper part >of the chamber (as indiciated by the O18 isotope abundance). >Analysis indicates the magma source is currently cannabalized >pre-existing rock and there have already been two previous >super-volcano eruptions in Yellowstone. According to the current >theory, after the next super eruption (anytime in the next 100,000 >years or so), the caldera activity will move further east and the >process will start all over again. > >Alan Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 9 18:38:08 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 9 18:06:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active References: <005601c82335$2ceb0de0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <47351237.43E8@Tomaszewski.net> Science Daily also has a good article http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071108141612.htm Alan Goldstein wrote: > > There is a major article in the current issue of Geotimes about the > Yellowstone caldera. Before the Yellowstone caldera existed, the activity > was in Idaho. There, three supervolcanic explosions spaced several hundred > thousand years apart, occurred. The last explosion was preceeded by > cannabalizing pre-existing rock in the upper part of the chamber (as > indiciated by the O18 isotope abundance). Analysis indicates the magma > source is currently cannabalized pre-existing rock and there have already > been two previous super-volcano eruptions in Yellowstone. According to the > current theory, after the next super eruption (anytime in the next 100,000 > years or so), the caldera activity will move further east and the process > will start all over again. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 10:28 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active > > > Thought this might be of interest: > > > > > > > > BK > > > > -- > > J Bryan Kramer > > North Florida, USA > > photos at: > > http://pbase.com/photoburner From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Nov 9 18:45:07 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 9 18:45:10 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann In-Reply-To: <4734936E00013ABA@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) References: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> <4732228300033CB8@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> <4734936E00013ABA@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Message-ID: Precisely my point Kitty! I consider Axel a great friend and I respect his opinions. We have had several great political and religious discussions stemming from posts on the list. Most have received warnings from the administrators and continued off list. My prayers and hopes for a fast full recovery are with him. Glenn > Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 15:28:50 -1000> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> From: kahako@hawaiiantel.net> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann> > Certainly prayers if you wish. I didn't mention them specifically > because I know Axel is not religious. However any positive thoughts > will undoubtedly be appreciated, and perhaps efficacious whether he > believes it or not. ;-)> > Aloha, Kitty> > > At 03:19 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote:> >And prayers.> >> >Glenn> > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at last. ?Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 9 19:18:31 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 9 18:47:20 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Death Rays and melting stones References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> <200711081723.lA8HNest016884@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4733D8FF.22C4@Tomaszewski.net> <4734F78D.8DA@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <47351BA8.3B95@Tomaszewski.net> A: Dig a pit for the dish (to eliminate the 1.5 meter distance up) next to a circular ramp/platform to hold the block of stone. FP determines the radius of the pit. Mount the dish on a cart constrained by rails at the sides of the wheels to get horizontal movement of the FP. Tip the top of the dish forward/backward to get vertical movement of the FP. Put the rails and cart on a second cart constrained to move at right angles to the first cart. Put the bottom cart on a platform that can be rotated to follow the sun. Now you have X-Y-Z control of the FP and can work a stone block as the sun moves. You may need to move/rotate the stone block from time to time. B: Hang the dish from a beam between two poles (roughly) oriented at sunrise and sunset. Connect two more ropes to the dish edge 120 degrees from the suspending rope. Now you have X-Y-Z control of the FP. Put it in a pit if necessary to eliminate the 1.5 meter distance up. I wonder if any (unexplained) circular (or semi-circular) pits have been found in the Inca ruins? Kreigh J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > And how would you hold a heavy block of stone precisely in the focal point > of a 3 meter disk. The FP would be 1.5 meters in and what ever distance up. > And then move it fractionally so it made an exact cut? > > BK > > On Nov 9, 2007 7:44 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > The Hale disk is only horizontal when the telescope is pointing straight > > up. > > > > If the Inca's used a 3 meter disk for stonework they probably quarried > > the blocks conventionally and brought them to the stationary disk for > > dressing. > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > > > > That 10 cm was a WAG, but considering the strength of gold as a > > structural > > > material I wonder if a 1 cm thickness would be possible in a 3 meter > > disk. > > > The Hale disk is of course horizontal and fully supported underneath and > > > stationary. This 3 meter disk would be used vertically and manhandled > > around > > > the quarry. Not the same sort of thing at all. > > > > > > BK > > > > > > > But I take exception to your 10 cm thickness. One cm (or less) would > > be > > > > used. You want to make your dish as thin as possible and still retain > > > > structural integrity. There is no need to make it that thick. BTW, the > > > > mirror of the Hale Telescope weighs about 13,000 kg, not counting the > > > > mounting assembly. I don't think weight would have been a real issue. > > > > > > > > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Nov 9 18:52:36 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 9 18:52:40 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: <47351237.43E8@Tomaszewski.net> References: <005601c82335$2ceb0de0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <47351237.43E8@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: What about the special on the Weather Channel? I think it was one of their "It Could Happen Tomorrow" series. Glenn > From: Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active> Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 21:38:08 -0500> > Science Daily also has a good article > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071108141612.htm> > > > > Alan Goldstein wrote:> > > > There is a major article in the current issue of Geotimes about the> > Yellowstone caldera. Before the Yellowstone caldera existed, the activity> > was in Idaho. There, three supervolcanic explosions spaced several hundred> > thousand years apart, occurred. The last explosion was preceeded by> > cannabalizing pre-existing rock in the upper part of the chamber (as> > indiciated by the O18 isotope abundance). Analysis indicates the magma> > source is currently cannabalized pre-existing rock and there have already> > been two previous super-volcano eruptions in Yellowstone. According to the> > current theory, after the next super eruption (anytime in the next 100,000> > years or so), the caldera activity will move further east and the process> > will start all over again.> > > > Alan> > > > ----- Original Message -----> > From: "J Bryan Kramer" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors"> > > > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 10:28 AM> > Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active> > > > > Thought this might be of interest:> > >> > > > > >> > > BK> > >> > > --> > > J Bryan Kramer> > > North Florida, USA> > > photos at:> > > http://pbase.com/photoburner> > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 9 19:28:23 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 9 18:57:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT: Death Rays and melting stones References: <47329473.5213@Tomaszewski.net> <005a01c8221a$60ca64b0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <473330E2.7090507@verizon.net> <8C9F03E61B6D87D-898-8506@webmail-da14.sysops.aol.com> <7aac8040711080902q461e8c3cse05eac22b3f5bcff@mail.gmail.com> <200711081723.lA8HNest016884@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <4733D8FF.22C4@Tomaszewski.net> <4734F78D.8DA@Tomaszewski.net> <47350943.3070303@verizon.net> Message-ID: <47351DF8.1F3C@Tomaszewski.net> If you are cutting 1 meter blocks with a three meter dish you still get 2/3 power (minus the shadow of the block support); even 1/3 power of a three meter dish should be sufficient. Kreigh DonH wrote: > > J Bryan Kramer wrote: > > > And how would you hold a heavy block of stone precisely in the focal point > > of a 3 meter disk. The FP would be 1.5 meters in and what ever distance up. > > And then move it fractionally so it made an exact cut? > > Good point. And again, I would point out (as I did previously) that a > parabola only focuses the rays at the focus when it is pointed directly > at the source. That is why, when I look out my back window on to the > lawn between the buildings, all the TV dishes are pointed in the same > direction. Otherwise they wouldn't work. Therefore a block of stone > would be in the way of the very light source needed to provide the energy. > > http://www.analyzemath.com/parabola/parabola_focus.html > > A parabola does not take energy from one direction and focus it in > another direction. Period. Case closed. > > Don > From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Nov 10 06:33:57 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Nov 10 06:34:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: <200711100156.lAA1uQNG016514@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <005601c82335$2ceb0de0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <200711100156.lAA1uQNG016514@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <200711101434.lAAEYUZq016253@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Maybe I should have clicked on the link. 16.5 million not 50 million. Who says old people can't remember s**t? At 05:55 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: >That would be NV, OR, ID, they WY. We had a lecture a few years ago >at the Portland Regional rock show from a prof studying the caldera. >It has moved in a near perfect arc from McDermitt, NV through SE >Idaho to Yellowstone in something like 50 million years. You can >follow the progression from the stretching of the lithophysae aka >thundereggs (no joke) left in its wake. They point toward the >"hotspot's" next location. He followed them from McDermitt through >Jackpot and Contact all the way to the ID border where they are lost >in the Bonneville flood mess there. He couldn't backtrack the >hotspot west past McDermitt NV but dollars to donuts it will show up >in someone else's work. > >At 05:01 PM 11/9/2007, you wrote: >>There is a major article in the current issue of Geotimes about the >>Yellowstone caldera. Before the Yellowstone caldera existed, the >>activity was in Idaho. There, three supervolcanic explosions spaced >>several hundred thousand years apart, occurred. The last explosion >>was preceeded by cannabalizing pre-existing rock in the upper part >>of the chamber (as indiciated by the O18 isotope abundance). >>Analysis indicates the magma source is currently cannabalized >>pre-existing rock and there have already been two previous >>super-volcano eruptions in Yellowstone. According to the current >>theory, after the next super eruption (anytime in the next 100,000 >>years or so), the caldera activity will move further east and the >>process will start all over again. >> >>Alan Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sat Nov 10 08:11:07 2007 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sat Nov 10 08:11:14 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help Message-ID: I started cutting this material and can't remember what it is...it is very hard 8+ or better and very dirty...blackens the water and the hands... Pictures are posted on my blog _www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com_ (http://www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com) Jeff ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jerrybs at frii.com Sat Nov 10 08:38:00 2007 From: jerrybs at frii.com (jerry) Date: Sat Nov 10 08:40:55 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] rust In-Reply-To: <20071109005458.6391F1CC35@io.frii.com> References: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> <20071109005458.6391F1CC35@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <20071110164032.A0A3F6786C@mail.frii.com> What do you use for a rust inhibitor that I can get at the local hardware store? This will be used in the water for flat laps and vibro laps. I had been using silicone spray and getting descent results, looking for something better. I know lapidary dealers sell stuff, but I would like to know what they are repackaging. Jerry WA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.27/1121 - Release Date: 11/9/07 7:29 PM From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Nov 10 08:45:31 2007 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Nov 10 08:45:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help References: Message-ID: <000701c823b9$1ca42320$6501a8c0@astound.net> Psilomolene. Probably in calcedony if it is that hard. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 8:11 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help > I started cutting this material and can't remember what it is...it is very > hard 8+ or better and very dirty...blackens the water and the hands... > > Pictures are posted on my blog _www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com_ > (http://www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com) > > Jeff > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sat Nov 10 09:40:24 2007 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sat Nov 10 09:40:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help Message-ID: In a message dated 11/10/2007 11:45:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jaybates@rcn.com writes: Psilomolene Thank you!! I cold not for the life of me remember that name Jeff Ursillo Chain of Events Unique cabochons _www.chainofevents.esty.com_ (http://www.chainofevents.esty.com/) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lavenderfish at cox.net Sat Nov 10 09:49:50 2007 From: lavenderfish at cox.net (Carol Carter-Wientjes) Date: Sat Nov 10 09:49:40 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help References: Message-ID: <06f801c823c2$17a201e0$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Jay, I think it's actually spelled psilomelane in case you need to look up more info on it. Too bad something so beautiful makes such an AWFUL mess, been there! Carol ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help > > In a message dated 11/10/2007 11:45:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jaybates@rcn.com writes: > > Psilomolene > > > Thank you!! > > I cold not for the life of me remember that name > > > > Jeff Ursillo > Chain of Events > Unique cabochons > _www.chainofevents.esty.com_ (http://www.chainofevents.esty.com/) > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sat Nov 10 09:56:05 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Nov 10 09:56:56 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help In-Reply-To: <06f801c823c2$17a201e0$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> References: <06f801c823c2$17a201e0$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Message-ID: <473491B40001EDC0@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) I was just about to say:  psilomelane  Aloha, Kitty At 07:49 AM 11/10/2007, you wrote: Jay, I think it's actually spelled psilomelane in case you need to look up more info on it. Too bad something so beautiful makes such an AWFUL mess, been there! Carol --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Sat Nov 10 10:20:44 2007 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Sat Nov 10 10:20:53 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help In-Reply-To: <000701c823b9$1ca42320$6501a8c0@astound.net> References: <000701c823b9$1ca42320$6501a8c0@astound.net> Message-ID: <003201c823c6$687abc70$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Jeff: I think Jaybates meant to type Psilomelane. Your hardness level greatly limits what this can be and offhand, I can't think of anything that hard that resembles your stone. Perhaps someone else can think of a stone meeting the hardness. I am curious at how you determined the hardness. I can certainly be off base here, but if you are estimating the hardness, there are a number of rocks that seem harder than they are because they are difficult to cut. Chalcedony comes to mind which makes Jeff's suggestion of Psilomelane in Chalcedony high on the list of possibilities. Chalcedony can seem to gum up saw blades and grinders and seems harder than it is. Other rocks that came to my mind, but don't come close to an 8+ hardness Magnetite Tantalum family of minerals Titanite (unlikely due to the size of your cabochon) Other minerals in the Titanium family (for example: rutile) Massive form of black tourmaline (schorl) (hardness of 7) Pulsite, not actually a mineral. It's a marketing name. Sold by J & L Mining & Minerals at Quartzite and Tuscon and perhaps a number of other shows. Pretty stuff. Tim Fisher may know more. One rock that comes to mind and more than meets your hardness definition is massive corundum. There are black sapphires and with inclusions can be similar to your rock. Good luck with your mineral ID search. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of jaybates Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 11:46 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help Psilomolene. Probably in calcedony if it is that hard. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 8:11 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help > I started cutting this material and can't remember what it is...it is very > hard 8+ or better and very dirty...blackens the water and the hands... > > Pictures are posted on my blog _www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com_ > (http://www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com) > > Jeff > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Nov 10 10:35:46 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Nov 10 10:33:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help In-Reply-To: <003201c823c6$687abc70$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <000701c823b9$1ca42320$6501a8c0@astound.net> <003201c823c6$687abc70$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <4735FA02.4040706@verizon.net> This almost looks like a rock called Schalenblende, except it doesn't have the lighter-colored bands. http://www.samsilverhawk.com/31906cabs/schalenblende.html Good luck, Don From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Nov 10 11:02:33 2007 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Nov 10 11:02:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help References: <06f801c823c2$17a201e0$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Message-ID: <001a01c823cc$40caeb40$6501a8c0@astound.net> Psili o me! "Good night Psilomelane, I will see you in my dreams." Messy is what it does to the saw and grinder lubricant. Also been there and done that. There is some psilomelane that is found in chalcedony (7+) that cuts some really nice cabs. I am sure that is what Jeff has. ----- Original Message ----- From: Carol Carter-Wientjes To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help > Jay, I think it's actually spelled psilomelane in case you need to look up > more info on it. Too bad something so beautiful makes such an AWFUL mess, > been there! > > Carol > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 11:40 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help > > > > > > In a message dated 11/10/2007 11:45:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > > jaybates@rcn.com writes: > > > > Psilomolene > > > > > > Thank you!! > > > > I cold not for the life of me remember that name > > > > > > > > Jeff Ursillo > > Chain of Events > > Unique cabochons > > _www.chainofevents.esty.com_ (http://www.chainofevents.esty.com/) > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > > http://www.aol.com > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 10 11:22:35 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 10 11:20:30 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help References: Message-ID: <47360476.2BD3@Tomaszewski.net> Looks like psilomelane and chalcedony from the Silver Crown mine. BNMJEFF@aol.com wrote: > > I started cutting this material and can't remember what it is...it is very > hard 8+ or better and very dirty...blackens the water and the hands... > > Pictures are posted on my blog _www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com_ > (http://www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com) > > Jeff > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Nov 10 11:52:00 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Nov 10 11:52:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help Message-ID: <200711101952.lAAJqF8o011263@bubbleator.drizzle.com> It's Psilomelane http://www.cst.cmich.edu/users/dietr1rv/psilomelane.htm but not really. Read the text. Another example of a lapidary material that was horribly misnamed lol. At 08:11 AM 11/10/2007, you wrote: >I started cutting this material and can't remember what it is...it is very >hard 8+ or better and very dirty...blackens the water and the hands... > >Pictures are posted on my blog _www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com_ >(http://www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com) > >Jeff Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Nov 10 11:52:11 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Nov 10 11:52:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] rust Message-ID: <200711101952.lAAJqPXl012019@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Products like Crystal Cut are actually a combination of wetting agent(s) and corrosion inhibitor(s). You can buy it by the pound and a pound probably lasts me a year or so in my Titan at 1 oz./gallon. I premix a gallon jug and just add water to the Titan when needed. 10 lbs. is $46 from Crystalite. I highly doubt that Crystalite is repackaging anything; I assume they are buying the commercial products wholesale and mixing them for resale. Commercial wetting agents and corrosion inhibiting additives are expensive. See http://www.corrosionvci.com/corrosion/products.php?cat=37 for some typical prices (gulp). Wiki has a good article on rust inhibitors that has long list of what look to be chemicals that i would not want to have around the house: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrosion_inhibitor At 08:38 AM 11/10/2007, you wrote: >What do you use for a rust inhibitor that I can get at the local >hardware store? This will be used in the water for flat laps and vibro laps. > >I had been using silicone spray and getting descent results, looking >for something better. I know lapidary dealers sell stuff, but I >would like to know what they are repackaging. > >Jerry >WA Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From jaybates at rcn.com Sat Nov 10 12:24:04 2007 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Sat Nov 10 12:24:26 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help References: <200711101952.lAAJqF8o011263@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000a01c823d7$a3dbf020$6501a8c0@astound.net> It is a messy world out there. Not something you will find Ploughing through your reference books. Kreigh got it right. It is manganese oxide in cryptocrystaline quartz. http://www.greatrough.com/rough_psilomelane.shtml ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Fisher To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help > It's Psilomelane > http://www.cst.cmich.edu/users/dietr1rv/psilomelane.htm but not > really. Read the text. Another example of a lapidary material that > was horribly misnamed lol. > > At 08:11 AM 11/10/2007, you wrote: > >I started cutting this material and can't remember what it is...it is very > >hard 8+ or better and very dirty...blackens the water and the hands... > > > >Pictures are posted on my blog _www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com_ > >(http://www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com) > > > >Jeff > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocknlight at aol.com Sat Nov 10 13:35:19 2007 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Sat Nov 10 13:35:35 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help - PSILOMELANE SILVER CROWN - PLUME In-Reply-To: <47360476.2BD3@Tomaszewski.net> References: <47360476.2BD3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <8C9F1F8B9AE6C3E-CA4-2965@webmail-dd05.sysops.aol.com> 99 % chance it is Psilomelane from the now closed, as last I heard, Silver Crown Mine in Mexico - Your cab has nice plumes also, which is fairly rare in this material, no matter where it's mined??! ROCKNLIGHT -----Original Message----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Sat, 10 Nov 2007 11:22 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help Looks like psilomelane and chalcedony from the Silver Crown mine. BNMJEFF@aol.com wrote: > > I started cutting this material and can't remember what it is...it is very > hard 8+ or better and very dirty...blackens the water and the hands... > > Pictures are posted on my blog _www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com_ > (http://www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com) > > Jeff > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From BNMJEFF at aol.com Sat Nov 10 15:31:42 2007 From: BNMJEFF at aol.com (BNMJEFF@aol.com) Date: Sat Nov 10 15:31:57 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help Message-ID: Actually, either spelling in Google gets results..... As for the hardness, sorry if my feeble attempt at estimating hardness caused some to overthink the answer :) Jeff ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Nov 10 15:34:25 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Nov 10 15:34:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help In-Reply-To: <000a01c823d7$a3dbf020$6501a8c0@astound.net> References: <200711101952.lAAJqF8o011263@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <000a01c823d7$a3dbf020$6501a8c0@astound.net> Message-ID: <200711102334.lAANYeMb002729@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Which is what the article I referenced was lamenting about being horribly misnamed. I am familiar with the lapidary material "Psilomelane". It's been around at rock shows for at least 20 years. At 12:24 PM 11/10/2007, you wrote: >It is a messy world out there. Not something you will find Ploughing through >your reference books. Kreigh got it right. It is manganese oxide in >cryptocrystaline quartz. http://www.greatrough.com/rough_psilomelane.shtml >----- Original Message ----- >From: Tim Fisher >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > >Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 11:52 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help > > > > It's Psilomelane > > http://www.cst.cmich.edu/users/dietr1rv/psilomelane.htm but not > > really. Read the text. Another example of a lapidary material that > > was horribly misnamed lol. > > > > At 08:11 AM 11/10/2007, you wrote: > > >I started cutting this material and can't remember what it is...it is >very > > >hard 8+ or better and very dirty...blackens the water and the hands... > > > > > >Pictures are posted on my blog _www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com_ > > >(http://www.chainofeventscabs.blogspot.com) > > > > > >Jeff > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From hilmarandheidi at telus.net Sat Nov 10 17:00:21 2007 From: hilmarandheidi at telus.net (Hilmar Krocke) Date: Sat Nov 10 17:00:26 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help In-Reply-To: <47360476.2BD3@Tomaszewski.net> References: <47360476.2BD3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <662E7000-C4C4-40C2-9592-D9FDF5172DB4@telus.net> _______________________________________________________ On 2007.Nov.10., at 1122, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Looks like psilomelane and chalcedony from the Silver Crown mine _______________________________________________________ Kreigh, there is a Silver Crown mine in Washington, in Arizona, in Wyoming, in British Columbia, in Colorado and possibly in some other places. ? ? ? ? ? Not too long ago we said : Always include Country, State, Province, County, District, nearest town, and so on, so that everybody knows where we are talking about ! Hilmar Krocke Vancouver, BC From kadok at infowest.com Sat Nov 10 19:02:49 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Nov 10 19:03:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004301c8240f$57f2f9f0$0200a8c0@kadok> Yes, very interesting. However; I have been hearing (from friends who work there) for some years that the floor of the caldera (Yellowstone is in a caldera) was rising. So, as they said, this does not really mean an eruption is imminent. Margaret -----Original Message----- To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active Thought this might be of interest: BK -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kadok at infowest.com Sat Nov 10 19:05:16 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Nov 10 19:05:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Emmermann In-Reply-To: <20071109101313.4exyrj1v4o408w00@webmail2.centurytel.net> References: <006b01c82252$b8873330$29959990$@dillen@skynet.be> <20071109101313.4exyrj1v4o408w00@webmail2.centurytel.net> Message-ID: <004401c8240f$afa47840$0200a8c0@kadok> Gosh, Axel -- Just goes to prove that Supermen are subject to the same problems as the rest of us! Margaret Tell him our hearts are with him, and wish him a speedy full recovery. No comments by Axel will leave big gaps of white space on the list. Jeanette Wimpee Quoting Rik Dillen : > He will get about 3 bypasses early next week. At present he is > kept in hospital for continuous follow up. Christel told me that he > shows a lot of courage, and is convinced that he > will feel much better after the surgery. -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 10 21:51:00 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 10 21:47:23 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral ID help References: <47360476.2BD3@Tomaszewski.net> <662E7000-C4C4-40C2-9592-D9FDF5172DB4@telus.net> Message-ID: <47369765.72CD@Tomaszewski.net> My Bad! Let me fill in a few blanks. Back in 2003 I happened to run across the miner that rediscovered the Silver Crown mine in Chihuahua, Mexico, under 20 feet of muck and debris, after eight years of searching. Four years later Dave and his partner had cleared the 30 foot shaft down and 80 feet of tunnel to reach the main vein. I bought some of the first 600 lbs he was bringing to market. The mine was opened in 1940 for the war effort and was closed in 1947. Its location was kept secret. Dave was very vague as to its remote location. He was calling it the Two Tire Mine, but the name was not sticking. From my discussions with him I understood it was near the Arizona/Mexico border. In the 1950s the mine was reportedly worked by old Mexican miners for the Lapidary market before it became unsafe to enter the mine. Last I heard, Dave and his Mexican partner had been forced to close the mine after several cave-ins. Most of the Chalcedony in this Psilomelane glows a pale green under SW, but if you crank up the intensity it will often glow softly orange. Vugs and seam edges tend to be a beautiful bluish tinted quartz druse. Kreigh Hilmar Krocke wrote: > > _______________________________________________________ > > On 2007.Nov.10., at 1122, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > > Looks like psilomelane and chalcedony from the Silver Crown mine > _______________________________________________________ > > Kreigh, there is a Silver Crown mine in Washington, in Arizona, in > Wyoming, in British Columbia, in Colorado > and possibly in some other places. > ? ? ? ? ? > Not too long ago we said : > Always include Country, State, Province, County, District, nearest > town, and so on, > so that everybody knows where we are talking about ! > > Hilmar Krocke > Vancouver, BC > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From wdeanwelder at yahoo.com Sun Nov 11 09:07:17 2007 From: wdeanwelder at yahoo.com (Dean Welder) Date: Sun Nov 11 09:07:23 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Abrasives for tumbling In-Reply-To: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> Message-ID: <324515.46077.qm@web51112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John Junkroski wrote: > Can anyone recommend a source for tumbling abrasives in small > quantities ? > > All I'm finding are ( very expensive ) four ounce packs or ten and > twenty-five pound lots. > > A pound or two would last me for a year. > > Thanks, > John John, My wife and I have a part-time business selling at local shows and online. We offer 1/2# and 1# packages of grit (plus many other rockhound related items). The direct link to the page with the grit is http://www.peregrine-rocks.com/rocksmin.shtml ; I do use the paypal shopping cart because it was free and fairly painfree for me. If you have a problem with that (some folks don't like/trust paypal) I will happily try to be flexible and do something else. Contact me at sales@peregrine-rocks.com to make other arrangements. Thanks, Dean Need rockhound tools? Like Estwing Hammers & Chisels, or the infamous Gem Scoop? Please visit http://www.peregrine-rocks.com/rocksmin.shtml __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From ajs at frii.com Sun Nov 11 17:04:02 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Sun Nov 11 17:04:05 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: <004301c8240f$57f2f9f0$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <20071112010402.7982B1CC35@io.frii.com> > ...for some years that the floor of the caldera (Yellowstone is in a > caldera) was rising. So, as they said, this does not really mean an > eruption is imminent. One point made strongly in the book that I mentioned recently is that no one has ever seen a caldera eruption, so no one is sure what to expect as precursors. :-) Cheers, Alan Silverstein From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Nov 11 18:26:11 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 11 18:25:55 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active References: <20071112010402.7982B1CC35@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <4737B9AC.4280@Tomaszewski.net> The results of these supervolcanos in the geologic record have been extensively reported. A fissure surrounding the magma chamber forms (fairly quickly) and the whole roof collapses in, squeezing magma out under pressure all around the rim, covering very large areas in ash, and leaving a huge pit of molten lava. I hope I have an appointment a long, long, long, way away from the event the day (if ever) the next supervolcano goes off. Kreigh Alan Silverstein wrote: > > > ...for some years that the floor of the caldera (Yellowstone is in a > > caldera) was rising. So, as they said, this does not really mean an > > eruption is imminent. > > One point made strongly in the book that I mentioned recently is that no > one has ever seen a caldera eruption, so no one is sure what to expect > as precursors. :-) > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein From jsmall47 at earthlink.net Mon Nov 12 04:23:31 2007 From: jsmall47 at earthlink.net (Jim Small) Date: Mon Nov 12 04:23:10 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Crown of Silver "psilomelane" In-Reply-To: <200711120201.lAC21kqL030069@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200711120201.lAC21kqL030069@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20071112071250.028fb640@pop.earthlink.net> Kreigh & all - I, too, was one of the subscribers who supported the re-opening of this mine. Dave Salyers and his group advertised through Bob's Rock Shop, asking for cash commitments upfront. I've been a lapidary since 1960, and have always treasured whatever "Crown of Silver" material I could lay my hands on, so I was happy to pony up part of the "grubstake". Every bit I have cut has sold the first time I have shown it, no matter the venue. The best material has bright black quartz druse on a gently rolling surface; skillful cutting exposes the romanechite layering, preserved in black chalcedony, frosted with drusy. There is similar material available from the Mohave area, although it seems to rarely have much well-developed layering. I have also cut layered material from an Arizona location which has included blebs of malachite in agate/chalcedony. No matter what location the material comes from, I have always used industrial grade latex/nitrile gloves while cutting it. KOR, Jim Small Small Wonders Lapidary Church Hill, TN From llbullbull at hotmail.com Mon Nov 12 05:24:25 2007 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Mon Nov 12 05:24:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Show Announcement Message-ID: This coming weekend November 17th and 18th the Worcester Mineral Club, Worcester, MA is having its annual show. It is being held at the National Guard Armory just off of I 290 at the Lincoln Street Armory. Take the Main Street Shrewsbury exit and go left at the bottom of the ramp if heading east or right if heading west and follow road to armory. Hope to see you there. Larry Bull _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail and Microsoft Office Outlook ? together at last. ?Get it now. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA102225181033.aspx?pid=CL100626971033 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Mon Nov 12 10:06:48 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Mon Nov 12 10:06:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone caldera becoming active In-Reply-To: <4737B9AC.4280@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20071112180648.4D6ED1CC35@io.frii.com> > I hope I have an appointment a long, long, long, way away from the > event the day (if ever) the next supervolcano goes off. Amen. The "Yellowstone Farewell" book includes a lot of well-written (I think) story-telling about what it would look like. If I recall right, he posits 100,000 people killed instantly in Wyoming alone. One take-away from the reading, hopefully of dubious value, is remembering that if a serious ashfall ever hits our area (northern Colorado), to wear breathing protection and keep sweeping it off the roof! I've heard my house groan on rare occasions after heavy blizzards, ones in which a few commercial roofs actually failed. An ashfall would be MUCH worse, even if the depth looks relatively benign compared with snow. Also don't operate any air-intake engines if you can help it, so as not to destroy them. Be patient, ride it out, wait for the air to clear. Might take days. Hide out and live on your emergency supplies... Which you do have stocked, right? Alan Silverstein From folmstead at rcn.com Mon Nov 12 10:07:06 2007 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Mon Nov 12 10:07:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] NVMC Club Show -AD Message-ID: <4738964A.5000202@rcn.com> The Northern Virginia Mineral Club, Inc. 16th Annual Gem, Mineral & Fossil Show November 17-18 Fairfax, VA - 16th Annual Gem, Mineral & Fossil Show sponsored by the Northern Virginia Mineral Club. Show site - George Mason University, Student Union Bldg II, Rte 123 & Braddock Rd, Fairfax, VA Approximately 20 Dealers selling Minerals, Fossils, Crystals, Gems, Jewelry, Meteorites & more! <>Also, Demonstrations, Exhibits, Door Prizes & Kid's Activities including Mini-mines & Fossil Dig. Silent Auction on Sunday. Adults $4, Seniors $2, Teens (13-17) $2, Children (12 & under) FREE, Scouts in uniform FREE. Show parking in GMU Lot F. Contact: Tom Taaffe, 703-281-3767 rockcllctraol.com. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html image/gif --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Mon Nov 12 10:40:50 2007 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Nov 12 10:42:57 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Parabolic rock cutter & psilomeline References: <200711110201.lAB21EsQ006416@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <004001c8255b$8d18e610$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> I personally think using a parabolic shaped mirror to cut rock would not be possible. If you had a big enough dish, the focused beam might be able to disrupt the structure of a thin slab, but to cut blocks in a quarry I think would be impossible. You might be able to cook the surface of the rock a little, but as the cut proceeded beyond the surface the focus of the dish would be blocked by the adjacent rock and you would loose any possible "cutting" power from the focused suns energy. Psilomelane is of course not a mineral, but rather a name for various massive manganese oxides. Looking at the picture makes me think it is a piece of the old classical Mexican cutting material that used to be around a lot in the 50s and 60. It was commonly called black malachite by the old cutters and was a total misery to cut because it would gum up diamond blades and turn everything black. I got a double fist size piece when I bought out an old estate a couple of years ago and had it shaped a little and contour polished as a piece for my collection. The guy who did it for me, bitched and moaned about what a mess it made. It has to be the same stuff. Rock From Srngravity at aol.com Mon Nov 12 07:39:14 2007 From: Srngravity at aol.com (Srngravity@aol.com) Date: Mon Nov 12 11:33:32 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane Message-ID: Hello to everyone looking for silvercrown psilomelane. The silvercrown psilomelane mine in Chihuahua is still open as the Ra Ra Roca mine. Mining is closed right now due to weather, but one of the owners, Raoul Reiser, has plenty of top-end cutting material for sale. You can reach Ra at _rrreiser1@verizon.net_ (mailto:rrreiser1@verizon.net) . S. Rodriguez ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Alpen at aol.com Mon Nov 12 11:54:29 2007 From: Alpen at aol.com (Alpen@aol.com) Date: Mon Nov 12 11:54:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Moab Trip Report Message-ID: Glenn, I enjoyed your report. I'm still hoping to get out in that area before winter really sets in. If you're willing to share directions of coordinates to the locations where you collected the pet. wood, agate and nodules, I'd be very interested. I have a vehicle with better than average clearance, but it's not a truck. Would a Subaru or Audi Allroad make it in there? If not, how close could we get? Thanks for any help, Eric In a message dated 11/8/2007 6:11:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: Message: 2 Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:49:34 -0600 From: Glenn Wimpee Subject: [Rockhounds] Moab Trip Report To: "rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Jeanette and I left Salt Lake City Wednesday 10-31-2007 and drove the scenic route over the San Raphael Swell to Moab. We stopped at a little portable BarBQ trailer in Salina and took 2 delicious dinners with us to Moab. There we ate them as we sat just off the Colorado River after sunset and stargazed. Thursday morning we overslept before hitting the trail up to Delicate Arch. Amazing formations including agate, green uranium ore, and of course the sandstone and slick rock formed the trail. Awesome, spectacular views accompanied us as we hiked up to the iconic arch. We then drove through Canyonlands N.P. where we saw the trailhead and switchback of the Shafer Trail. Farther in the Grand View Point overlooks the confluence of the green and Colorado Rivers. Friday's first stop was a big green mound on open land where we picked up a few very rough unpromising pieces I suspect are not very radioactive. It was apparent we were not the first nor only rockhounds to visit and dig there. We had no company except for a trailer with a "toy box" that likely held 4 wheelers or motocross bikes. Next we drove to the Yellow Cat Road where we saw eagles feeding on dead coyotes or wolves at a corral. Down the road a few miles we went over a ridge and found fields of petrified wood, agate, and various rocks and minerals. Our favorite pieces we collected there are small branches of very white petrified wood. Layers of black, cream, and green rock were exposed on the rolling plain. Most of the petrified wood is very, very dark, almost black. Driving on we came to the famous Big Tire Fork. The middle tine trails leads roughly (literally) past several claims with the green stuff piled high at several mines. There is a spring but it is fenced off. A very beautiful scenic trail to nowhere that had several spots requiring 4WD and ended on top of a slick rock hill. >From there the next stop was in a field of barite jasper grape agate nodules. Many are geodic and contain crystals. All we saw were softball size and smaller. Jeanette picked up one which we cracked and found filled with celestite. There are millions lying exposed on the surface. Lots are already cracked and filled with red sandy dirt which makes the inner crystals difficult to see. We did the best we could at high grading and kept only a few. Again the scenery is awesome. Book cliffs along the trail and the San Raphael Swell to the west. Pictures will be posted on our website soon and I'll post the link when they're up. Thanks for reading. Your comments are welcomed. Glenn ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Mon Nov 12 14:38:42 2007 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Mon Nov 12 14:40:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] graptolites, corals and bivalves Message-ID: <282f01c8257c$c7339cc0$08149444@michael01> Hello I need to purchase (for a museum) some graptolites, plants, corals and bivalves (brachiopods, etc). As I don't particularly want to sell them a $2.00 brachiopod, versus a plate of 10 for $50 (you get my meaning), I was wondering if anyone on the list has anything out of the list below that I could buy? I would like nice complete specimens, the larger the matrix better...multiples on a plate if possible. here are the types I need (or as close to it as possible): Brachiopoda Spiriferellina Brachiopoda Orthis Brachiopoda Stenoscisma wooi Brachiopoda Choristites paichinginesis Brachiopoda Breileenia radiata Brachiopoda Rafinesquina Brachiopoda Spirifer Graptolite Diplograptus Graptolite Dicellograptus Graptolite Dendrograptus Graptolite Dictyonema Graptolite Didymograptus Graptolite Tetragraptus Graptolite Phyllograptus Graptolite Monograptus coral Favosites coral Heliolites coral Zaphrentite coral Halysites Crinoids Ectenocrinus sp. Cystoid Pleurocystites sp. Pentremites conoidea Raphistoma Orthoceras fusulina Plant Cooksonia Plant Rhynia Plant Archaeopteris Plant Sigillaria So, if anyone can supply me with any of this material (or most of), please contact me offlist. thank you! Michael --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Mon Nov 12 16:35:35 2007 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Mon Nov 12 16:35:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane References: Message-ID: <00c801c8258d$1b54d520$039e5a40@marilyn> That email site came back undeliverable any suggestions Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:39 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane > Hello to everyone looking for silvercrown psilomelane. The silvercrown > psilomelane mine in Chihuahua is still open as the Ra Ra Roca mine. > Mining is > closed right now due to weather, but one of the owners, Raoul Reiser, has > plenty of top-end cutting material for sale. You can reach Ra at > _rrreiser1@verizon.net_ (mailto:rrreiser1@verizon.net) . > > S. Rodriguez > > > > ************************************** See what's new at > http://www.aol.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From teyancey at suddenlink.net Mon Nov 12 15:40:15 2007 From: teyancey at suddenlink.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Mon Nov 12 16:41:49 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] graptolites, corals and bivalves In-Reply-To: <282f01c8257c$c7339cc0$08149444@michael01> References: <282f01c8257c$c7339cc0$08149444@michael01> Message-ID: Michael, I have purchased many fossils for decades, to build up teaching collections. At present, Wards in Rochester , NY, and Geological Enterprises in Ardmore, OK, are the most reliable sources of quality material. You should tell your customer to go to them for the less expensive material and especially for the graptolite slabs. If this museum really wants display material, the museum needs to spend appropriately to get desirable material. They seem to be asking for a charitable rate and hoping to get high quality! However, a few years ago I found another source of fossils of good quality at very reasonable prices. This is an part-time operation where school teachers and friends are excavating a quarry containing Silurian age fossils of very good quality. Some very good quality crinoids and cystoids are available from them at good prices for teachers like myself. I highly recommend this source. The group has a web site: www.primitiveworlds.com/ and they have a varied selection of material, based on recent excavations. This fits the category of very good value. If you really need fusulinids, I have many chunks of rock filled with them. Some in very good weathered relief. Let me know if your other sources cannot supply them. As for the Devonian plants Cooksonia and Rhynia, I think your customer is asking too much. Unless someone is very lucky, this is something that will probably require years to acquire good specimens. Such material has to come from fortuitous sources, not the regular suppy sources. And last, I am intrigued by the desire to obtain specimens of Stenoscisma and Choristites. These are common European brachiopods, not North American brachs. This makes me think the person you want to supply is located in Europe or was trained in Europe. They are not the types of brachs to use for most North American museums. Tom Yancey >Hello > >I need to purchase (for a museum) some graptolites, plants, corals >and bivalves (brachiopods, etc). > >As I don't particularly want to sell them a $2.00 brachiopod, versus >a plate of 10 for $50 (you get my meaning), I was wondering if >anyone on the list has anything out of the list below that I could >buy? I would like nice complete specimens, the larger the matrix >better...multiples on a plate if possible. > >here are the types I need (or as close to it as possible): -- Thomas Yancey From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Nov 12 16:46:34 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Nov 12 16:47:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane References: <00c801c8258d$1b54d520$039e5a40@marilyn> Message-ID: <004801c8258e$ac48b910$0200a8c0@Notebook> Steve et.al., S. Rodriguez is not a list member so he will not see your post. Write him directly at Srngravity@aol.com . John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve & Marilyn" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane > That email site came back undeliverable any suggestions Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:39 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane > > >> Hello to everyone looking for silvercrown psilomelane. The silvercrown >> psilomelane mine in Chihuahua is still open as the Ra Ra Roca mine. >> Mining is >> closed right now due to weather, but one of the owners, Raoul Reiser, >> has >> plenty of top-end cutting material for sale. You can reach Ra at >> _rrreiser1@verizon.net_ (mailto:rrreiser1@verizon.net) . >> >> S. Rodriguez >> >> >> >> ************************************** See what's new at >> http://www.aol.com >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lavenderfish at cox.net Mon Nov 12 17:32:35 2007 From: lavenderfish at cox.net (Carol Carter-Wientjes) Date: Mon Nov 12 17:32:42 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane References: <00c801c8258d$1b54d520$039e5a40@marilyn> Message-ID: <00c501c82595$12eebdd0$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Steve & Marilyn, Shea is a friend of mine and I have forwarded your email to her. She will be able to help you get in touch with Ra. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve & Marilyn" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane > That email site came back undeliverable any suggestions Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:39 AM > Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane > > >> Hello to everyone looking for silvercrown psilomelane. The silvercrown >> psilomelane mine in Chihuahua is still open as the Ra Ra Roca mine. >> Mining is >> closed right now due to weather, but one of the owners, Raoul Reiser, >> has >> plenty of top-end cutting material for sale. You can reach Ra at >> _rrreiser1@verizon.net_ (mailto:rrreiser1@verizon.net) . >> >> S. Rodriguez >> >> >> >> ************************************** See what's new at >> http://www.aol.com >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From smtravis at plateautel.net Mon Nov 12 17:41:16 2007 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Mon Nov 12 17:41:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane References: <00c801c8258d$1b54d520$039e5a40@marilyn> <00c501c82595$12eebdd0$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Message-ID: <010101c82596$489ed4f0$039e5a40@marilyn> Thanks Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Carter-Wientjes" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane > Steve & Marilyn, > > Shea is a friend of mine and I have forwarded your email to her. She will > be able to help you get in touch with Ra. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve & Marilyn" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 6:35 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane > > >> That email site came back undeliverable any suggestions Steve >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 8:39 AM >> Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Psilomelane >> >> >>> Hello to everyone looking for silvercrown psilomelane. The silvercrown >>> psilomelane mine in Chihuahua is still open as the Ra Ra Roca mine. >>> Mining is >>> closed right now due to weather, but one of the owners, Raoul Reiser, >>> has >>> plenty of top-end cutting material for sale. You can reach Ra at >>> _rrreiser1@verizon.net_ (mailto:rrreiser1@verizon.net) . >>> >>> S. Rodriguez >>> >>> >>> >>> ************************************** See what's new at >>> http://www.aol.com >>> >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Nov 10 09:12:52 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Nov 12 18:35:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] rust In-Reply-To: <20071110164032.A0A3F6786C@mail.frii.com> References: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> <20071109005458.6391F1CC35@io.frii.com> <20071110164032.A0A3F6786C@mail.frii.com> Message-ID: <200711130235.lAD2ZEKX014142@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Products like Crystal Cut are actually a combination of wetting agent(s) and corrosion inhibitor(s). You can buy it by the pound and a pound probably lasts me a year or so in my Titan at 1 oz./gallon. I premix a gallon jug and just add water to the Titan when needed. 10 lbs. is $46 from Crystalite. I highly doubt that Crystalite is repackaging anything; I assume they are buying the commercial products wholesale and mixing them for resale. Commercial wetting agents and corrosion inhibiting additives are expensive. See http://www.corrosionvci.com/corrosion/products.php?cat=37 for some typical prices (gulp). Wiki has a good article on rust inhibitors that has long list of what look to be chemicals that i would not want to have around the house: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrosion_inhibitor At 08:38 AM 11/10/2007, you wrote: >What do you use for a rust inhibitor that I can get at the local >hardware store? This will be used in the water for flat laps and vibro laps. > >I had been using silicone spray and getting descent results, looking >for something better. I know lapidary dealers sell stuff, but I >would like to know what they are repackaging. > >Jerry >WA > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From sicree at verizon.net Tue Nov 13 07:26:14 2007 From: sicree at verizon.net (Sicree, Andrew, Ph.D.) Date: Tue Nov 13 07:09:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamonds talk (Nov. 14th), diamonds article Message-ID: Diamonds in the Northeastern U.S.: Are there more to be discovered? by Arnold G. Doden, Ph.D. The Nov meeting of the Nittany Mineral Soc. will be held Wednesday, Nov. 14th at 7:30 p.m., in the room 116 auditorium of Earth & Engineering Sciences Building on the west side of the Penn State campus in State College, PA. 6:30 to 7:30 p.m.: Social hour with refreshments in the lobby 7:30 to about 8:00 p.m.: announcements, business, door prize drawings about 8:00 p.m.: featured program Free admission, free parking, free door prize drawings and free refreshments, and is open to all - please come and share an enjoyable evening! If you can't make the above talk, please enjoy the following article on diamonds: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- Diamonds, coal, and carbon: With all the coalfields in North America, why aren't more diamonds found here? by Andrew A. Sicree ______________________________ Both diamonds and coal are carbon, right? Diamonds are pure carbon. Coal, however, is a complex mixture of large organic molecules consisting mainly of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen with some nitrogen, sulfur and other elements. Coal beds formed from thick layers of plant matter that were buried, compacted, and lithified (turned to rock). Diamonds and coal are quite different. Can we find diamonds in coal mines? In nature, diamonds form in the Earth's mantle under very high pressures (54,000 times atmospheric pressure). In order to be turned into diamond, coal would have to be pushed down to depths of at least 100 miles. None of our coals were ever buried anywhere that deep! Even the anthracite, or hard coal, from eastern Pennsylvania was never buried any deeper than about three to six miles. So don't go looking in the coalfields for diamonds. You may hear the term "black diamond" used for shiny black anthracite coal; this is a miner's nickname for coal, not a geological term. Dark or black diamonds are called bort or carbonado, but they have no relationship to coal. Most bort is from the Congo, and most carbonados are from Brazil or the Central African Republic. Formation of diamonds Diamonds are as interesting to the mineralogist as they are to the jeweler. They are important to earth scientists because they carry information about the nature of the Earth's mantle where they formed. [The mantle is that layer of the Earth's structure which lies between the Earth's crust and its core: under most continents it lies about 20 miles down and continues to 1800 miles in depth.] The most common way diamonds can be carried out of the mantle is during a volcanic eruption of a very unusual igneous rock called kimberlite. Diamond host-rocks Kimberlite is typically a gray or bluish rock with large crystals of a dark brown mica, the mineral phlogopite, visible in it. The fine-grained matrix is mostly peridotite, a blue- or green-gray rock made up mostly of the minerals olivine and pyroxene. Kimberlites may also contain small crystals of bright green diopside, blood-red pyrope garnets, and glossy black ilmenite, as well as other minerals. Fragments of other rocks from the Earth's mantle and crust in the form of xenoliths (i.e., "strange rocks") may also be trapped in the kimberlite matrix. Of course, the included mineral that really interests everyone is diamond. Sometimes, diamonds occur as crystals with octahedral shapes, reflecting their underlying cubic crystal structure. More often, diamonds are odd-shaped because they were fragmented or redissolved before the kimberlite host-rock formed. Diamonds are also found in another unusual mantle-derived igneous rock called lamproite. They also occur in meteorites and in rocks that have been shocked by the impact of large meteorites. Meteoritic diamonds are quite small and often imperfect, rather than large gem-grade, specimens. Carbonado diamonds are thought to have been formed in inter-stellar space and have been carried to Earth in meteorites. Stability of diamond and graphite Diamonds, with a cubic crystal structure, are crystals of pure carbon formed under high pressure. Temperature is also important: typically, diamonds form only in those parts of the mantle where the pressures are greater than about 54,000 atmospheres and the temperatures are less than 1300?C (2370?F). The only truly stable form of pure carbon at the surface of the Earth is the mineral graphite. Like diamond, graphite is pure carbon, but graphite has a planar hexagonal crystal structure. Between the hexagonal layers of carbon weak bonds make graphite soft and slippery-feeling. Writing pencil "lead" is really graphite - used because it is so soft that it rubs off on paper and makes a black mark. Thus, the hardest mineral and one of the softest of minerals share the same chemical composition: crystal structure is what matters! Because diamonds form in the mantle, the fact that we find them on the surface implies that rocks can escape from the Earth's mantle to its surface. The magma that solidifies to form kimberlite must move rapidly from the Earth's mantle to the surface, and cool quickly, if diamonds are to avoid conversion into graphite. It has been calculated that a kimberlite eruption may occur at twice the speed of sound! You wouldn't want to be nearby when one blew, but there have been no kimberlite eruptions during historic times. Pseudomorphs after diamond One of the most interesting, if not also among the most disappointing, of the pseudomorphs (pseudomorph = "false-form") is that of graphite after diamond. Small octahedrons of graphite have been reported in rocks in North Africa. Because graphite is hexagonal and diamond is isometric (cubic), these are thought to have been diamonds, formed at great depths, but converted into graphite as they were carried upward slowly out of the Earth's mantle by the process of obduction. Although they are now graphite, they retain the shape of the original octahedral diamond crystals: disappointing to the would-be miner, but interesting to the mineral collector. Where are the kimberlites? We all know of the great diamond mining districts in Africa and the more recent diamond discoveries in northern Canada. Diamonds always seem to be exotic and far away. But kimberlites are more common in North America than many might suspect. Kimberlites and related rocks have been found in Arkansas, Kentucky, Wyoming, Colorado, New York, and elsewhere. Colorado and Arkansas have even produced some diamonds, but efforts to mine diamonds in those states have proven to be uneconomic. Kimberlites even occur at three locations in Pennsylvania. Interestingly enough, two of these kimberlites were actually encountered in coal mines in Indiana County, Pennsylvania. They haven't yet been detected on the surface. But the third kimberlite can be seen on the surface near Masontown in Fayette and Greene Counties. These kimberlites have been determined by Professor Michael Bikerman of the University of Pittsburgh to have been formed about 147 million years during the Late Jurassic Period. While, in theory, any kimberlite could carry diamonds, only one kimberlite in a hundred is diamondiferous. No diamonds have yet been found in any kimberlite in the eastern United States, but we keep looking! - A. A. Sicree Dr. Andrew A. Sicree is a professional mineralogist and geochemist residing in Boalsburg, PA.. Popular Mineralogy provides technical answers to your general mineral questions. If you have a question you'd like to have answered, please send email to sicree@verizon.net This article may be reprinted freely provided that proper credit is given to the author: ?2007, Andrew A. Sicree, Ph.D. For information about Popular Mineralogy supplements, please contact: Andrew A. Sicree, Ph.D. P. O. Box 10664 State College PA 16805 (814) 867-6263 sicree@verizon.net --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Tue Nov 13 10:53:21 2007 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Tue Nov 13 10:53:34 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamonds talk (Nov. 14th), diamonds article In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003e01c82626$7699c1e0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Nice write up Dr. Sicree, (Andy?). I can't make the meeting, but I hope you get a huge turnout. Kimberlite intrusions into Pennsylvania coal fields? That suggests the kimberlite pipes intruded into the coal bed. I am curious what boundary minerals would form from that intrusion and would you be able to elaborate more? Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Sicree, Andrew, Ph.D. Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:26 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Diamonds talk (Nov. 14th), diamonds article Diamonds in the Northeastern U.S.: Are there more to be discovered? by Arnold G. Doden, Ph.D. The Nov meeting of the Nittany Mineral Soc. will be held Wednesday, Nov. 14th at 7:30 p.m., in the room 116 auditorium of Earth & Engineering Sciences Building on the west side of the Penn State campus in State College, PA. 6:30 to 7:30 p.m.: Social hour with refreshments in the lobby 7:30 to about 8:00 p.m.: announcements, business, door prize drawings about 8:00 p.m.: featured program Free admission, free parking, free door prize drawings and free refreshments, and is open to all - please come and share an enjoyable evening! If you can't make the above talk, please enjoy the following article on diamonds: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- Diamonds, coal, and carbon: With all the coalfields in North America, why aren't more diamonds found here? by Andrew A. Sicree ______________________________ From sicree at verizon.net Tue Nov 13 20:14:21 2007 From: sicree at verizon.net (Sicree, Andrew, Ph.D.) Date: Tue Nov 13 19:57:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kimberlite intrusions into coal Message-ID: Regarding the intrusion of kimberlites into coal. At the Tanoma Coal Mine in Indiana County, Pennsylvania, a kimberlite dike intruded into the bituminous coal. The dike was about 15 inches wide below the coal and extended a good distance (thousands of feet) laterally (in the room and pillar method of coal mining the miners kept hitting the dike as in ran at an angle to the grid pattern of the mine tunnels). When the dike came up into the three-feet thick coal seam, it tended to widen out or send off short sills, then went back to its normal width as it penetrated into the ceiling rocks. The kimberlite in the ceiling is a hard blue-gray rock with lots of large phlogopites, and fewer picro-ilmenites, chrome diopsides and pyrope garnets. In the coal seam, the kimberlite is "weathered" (even 200-300 feet deep underground) probably due to water moving through the coal. It appears to be light brown. Where the kimberlite comes into contact with the coal, there isn't too much alteration. The coal is somewhat coked, and there are "coal balls" near the contact, but the coking does not go too far into the coal - maybe a foot or less. I've often wondered if one might find small blebs of native iron in the coked coal, but no one has yet looked. Unfortunately, I understand that the Tanoma Coal Mine is closed and now is flooded. Another nearby mine, the Barr Slope Mine, also had a similar kimberlite (maybe the same one), but it was closed before the Tanoma... Hope this helps with understanding the Tanoma Mine kimberlite. Sincerely, Andy Andrew A. Sicree, Ph.D. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Nov 14 05:46:42 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Nov 14 05:46:48 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kimberlite intrusions into coal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very interesting. As I understnad it from the Barren Lands book, only rare kimberlites are diamond bearing. They were analyzing the garnets IIRC for trace elements to try to determine which ones were promising. BK On Nov 13, 2007 11:14 PM, Sicree, Andrew, Ph.D. wrote: > Regarding the intrusion of kimberlites into coal. > > At the Tanoma Coal Mine in Indiana County, Pennsylvania, > a kimberlite dike intruded into the bituminous coal. > > The dike was about 15 inches wide below the coal and > extended a good distance (thousands of feet) laterally > (in the room and pillar method of coal mining the > miners kept hitting the dike as in ran at an angle > to the grid pattern of the mine tunnels). > > When the dike came up into the three-feet thick coal > seam, it tended to widen out or send off short > sills, then went back to its normal width as it > penetrated into the ceiling rocks. > > The kimberlite in the ceiling is a hard blue-gray > rock with lots of large phlogopites, and fewer > picro-ilmenites, chrome diopsides and > pyrope garnets. In the coal seam, the kimberlite > is "weathered" (even 200-300 feet deep underground) > probably due to water moving through the coal. It > appears to be light brown. > > Where the kimberlite comes into contact with the > coal, there isn't too much alteration. The coal > is somewhat coked, and there are "coal balls" > near the contact, but the coking does not go too > far into the coal - maybe a foot or less. I've > often wondered if one might find small blebs of > native iron in the coked coal, but no one has yet > looked. > > Unfortunately, I understand that the Tanoma Coal Mine > is closed and now is flooded. Another nearby mine, > the Barr Slope Mine, also had a similar kimberlite > (maybe the same one), but it was closed before the > Tanoma... > > Hope this helps with understanding the > Tanoma Mine kimberlite. > > Sincerely, > > Andy > > Andrew A. Sicree, Ph.D. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > text/plain (text body -- kept) > application/ms-tnef > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Nov 14 05:51:04 2007 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Wed Nov 14 05:51:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kimberlite intrusions into coal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001601c826c5$666d21a0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Andy: Thanks! I had found myself wondering about the interaction of coal and what I assume was a rapid (explosive?) intrusion of kimberlitic magma. The relatively small area of coking implies minor (for magma) host rock heating with subsequent rapid cooling. I was originally thinking that the coal would potentially provide a vent space for kimberlitic volatiles and if a long period of cooling, perhaps some interesting crystallization in those coal seams. Again, thanks! Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Sicree, Andrew, Ph.D. Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 11:14 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Kimberlite intrusions into coal Regarding the intrusion of kimberlites into coal. At the Tanoma Coal Mine in Indiana County, Pennsylvania, a kimberlite dike intruded into the bituminous coal. The dike was about 15 inches wide below the coal and extended a good distance (thousands of feet) laterally (in the room and pillar method of coal mining the miners kept hitting the dike as in ran at an angle to the grid pattern of the mine tunnels). When the dike came up into the three-feet thick coal seam, it tended to widen out or send off short sills, then went back to its normal width as it penetrated into the ceiling rocks. The kimberlite in the ceiling is a hard blue-gray rock with lots of large phlogopites, and fewer picro-ilmenites, chrome diopsides and pyrope garnets. In the coal seam, the kimberlite is "weathered" (even 200-300 feet deep underground) probably due to water moving through the coal. It appears to be light brown. Where the kimberlite comes into contact with the coal, there isn't too much alteration. The coal is somewhat coked, and there are "coal balls" near the contact, but the coking does not go too far into the coal - maybe a foot or less. I've often wondered if one might find small blebs of native iron in the coked coal, but no one has yet looked. Unfortunately, I understand that the Tanoma Coal Mine is closed and now is flooded. Another nearby mine, the Barr Slope Mine, also had a similar kimberlite (maybe the same one), but it was closed before the Tanoma... Hope this helps with understanding the Tanoma Mine kimberlite. Sincerely, Andy Andrew A. Sicree, Ph.D. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) application/ms-tnef --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From timeman123 at optonline.net Wed Nov 14 08:48:57 2007 From: timeman123 at optonline.net (ROBERT A SANTEE) Date: Wed Nov 14 08:49:01 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] bort diamonds and graphite shape octahedral diamond crystal Message-ID: <000601c826de$404b6fe0$987f5143@ownerfbau59hmu> Hi everybody can anybody tell me were I can get a hold of bort diamonds and some graphite shape octahedral diamond I would like to put in my collection thanks bob. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Nov 14 09:01:30 2007 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Nov 14 09:01:40 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] bort diamonds and graphite shape octahedral diamondcrystal References: <000601c826de$404b6fe0$987f5143@ownerfbau59hmu> Message-ID: <000801c826e0$010c6b20$b6dd2c4b@LarryRush> Bob: Try John Betts, he usually has some diamonds on his site; www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com Larry Rush ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT A SANTEE" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:48 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] bort diamonds and graphite shape octahedral diamondcrystal > Hi everybody can anybody tell me were I can get a hold of bort diamonds > and some graphite shape octahedral diamond I would like to put in my > collection thanks bob. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Wed Nov 14 09:19:03 2007 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Wed Nov 14 09:16:16 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] bort diamonds and graphite shape octahedral diamondcrystal References: <000601c826de$404b6fe0$987f5143@ownerfbau59hmu> Message-ID: <002401c826e2$746faf80$2308a118@feldsparflash> Hi Bob, John Betts has some grand diamond crystals on this website. http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com Tony Nikischer of Excalibur Minerals sells diamonds. http://www.excaliburmineral.com A few years ago if was difficult to find diamond crystals now it is much easier. I purchased a diamond in matrix, kimberlite, from Derek Yoost recently. Yoost mineral@optonline.net Not a very large diamond but since I am also very interested in petrology it makes a good specimen. I also have a diamond in conglomerate. Which generates some thought about diamonds in lithified alluvial deposits. I am really a feldspar collector but diamonds, fine mineral crystals and meteorites are of part of my mineral collection too. Good luck finding your diamond crystals, they are truly amazing especially if they have growth patterns called trigons. Carolyn Reynard Poughkeepsie, NY ---- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT A SANTEE" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:48 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] bort diamonds and graphite shape octahedral diamondcrystal > Hi everybody can anybody tell me were I can get a hold of bort diamonds and some graphite shape octahedral diamond I would like to put in my collection thanks bob. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From smtravis at plateautel.net Wed Nov 14 16:56:52 2007 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Wed Nov 14 16:57:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] bort diamonds and graphite shape octahedral diamondcrystal References: <000601c826de$404b6fe0$987f5143@ownerfbau59hmu> Message-ID: <004201c82722$692b0ee0$039e5a40@marilyn> Don't know what a bort diamond looks like but I have 20 small diamond xtls from SA I got to mane hardness sets out of not too exoensive 40 ea, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "ROBERT A SANTEE" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] bort diamonds and graphite shape octahedral diamondcrystal > Hi everybody can anybody tell me were I can get a hold of bort diamonds > and some graphite shape octahedral diamond I would like to put in my > collection thanks bob. > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 14 17:25:56 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 14 17:22:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] bort diamonds and graphite shape octahedral diamond crystal References: <000601c826de$404b6fe0$987f5143@ownerfbau59hmu> Message-ID: <473B9F55.4EB3@Tomaszewski.net> Check with John Betts http://www.johnbetts-fineminerals.com ROBERT A SANTEE wrote: > > Hi everybody can anybody tell me were I can get a hold of bort diamonds and some graphite shape octahedral diamond I would like to put in my collection thanks bob. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tam2819 at cox.net Thu Nov 15 06:52:41 2007 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Thu Nov 15 06:52:47 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel In-Reply-To: <200711150201.lAF21IFK021122@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200711150201.lAF21IFK021122@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <1F9B7282-2D3A-4C50-8958-24CF45A42AE1@cox.net> Has anyone any news of Axel? Thanks, Terrie From shmm at ptd.net Thu Nov 15 07:02:18 2007 From: shmm at ptd.net (Sterling Hill Mining Museum) Date: Thu Nov 15 10:11:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel References: <200711150201.lAF21IFK021122@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <1F9B7282-2D3A-4C50-8958-24CF45A42AE1@cox.net> Message-ID: <009a01c82798$85460550$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> Yes, I've been in touch with Christel. Axel's operation went well, and Christel hopes that he will be able to answer e-mails himself in two weeks or so. Cheers- Earl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teresa Masters" To: Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 9:52 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel > Has anyone any news of Axel? > Thanks, > Terrie > -- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Thu Nov 15 11:57:02 2007 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Thu Nov 15 11:57:12 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel In-Reply-To: <1F9B7282-2D3A-4C50-8958-24CF45A42AE1@cox.net> References: <200711150201.lAF21IFK021122@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <1F9B7282-2D3A-4C50-8958-24CF45A42AE1@cox.net> Message-ID: <000001c827c1$b1038b30$130aa190$@dillen@skynet.be> Hi all, Christel, Axel's wife just came home 5 minutes ago, and she told me that Axel's surgery was very successful... and badly needed. After all he got 5 bypasses. Hour after hour he is feeling better, but of course he will need an extended period of revalidation. Probably he will go home in the beginning of next week already. Christel tries to print all e-mail message for him, so that he has something to do. She supposes that from the moment he is back home he will start up his computer. He told her that he was not aware being that popular... On the other hand take into account that he will have to rest a lot, and it might take some time before you get replies from him. Anyway, I'm very glad that he is OK now, and that everything went fine. For our Belgian friends : he is in Middelheim hospital in Antwerp, room 895, visiting hours are 14 - 19.30 h. Best regards, and I wish you all a fine week-end. Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Masters Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:53 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel Has anyone any news of Axel? Thanks, Terrie -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at telenet.be Thu Nov 15 13:19:50 2007 From: axel.emmermann at telenet.be ('Axel Emmermann') Date: Thu Nov 15 13:19:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel In-Reply-To: <000001c827c1$b1038b30$130aa190$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <200711150201.lAF21IFK021122@bubbleator.drizzle.com><1F9B7282-2D3A-4C50-8958-24CF45A42AE1@cox.net> <000001c827c1$b1038b30$130aa190$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <001201c827cd$423a6000$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Hoi Rik Bedankt voor de hulp met deze fijne e-mail. Groetjes Christel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Rik Dillen > Verzonden: donderdag 15 november 2007 20:57 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Axel > > Hi all, > > Christel, Axel's wife just came home 5 minutes ago, and she > told me that Axel's surgery was very successful... and badly > needed. After all he got 5 bypasses. > Hour after hour he is feeling better, but of course he will > need an extended period of revalidation. > Probably he will go home in the beginning of next week already. > Christel tries to print all e-mail message for him, so that > he has something to do. She supposes that from the moment he > is back home he will start up his computer. He told her that > he was not aware being that popular... On the other hand take > into account that he will have to rest a lot, and it might > take some time before you get replies from him. > Anyway, I'm very glad that he is OK now, and that everything > went fine. > > For our Belgian friends : he is in Middelheim hospital in > Antwerp, room 895, visiting hours are 14 - 19.30 h. > > Best regards, and I wish you all a fine week-end. > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail > rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) > postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Teresa Masters > Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 3:53 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel > > Has anyone any news of Axel? > Thanks, > Terrie > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From tam2819 at gmail.com Thu Nov 15 19:29:36 2007 From: tam2819 at gmail.com (Teresa Masters) Date: Fri Nov 16 11:25:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel, In-Reply-To: <200711160206.lAG26fgC028309@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200711160206.lAG26fgC028309@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <156C1C38-B9C2-4A55-962B-6774387D5B73@cox.net> Earl, Rik, and Christel, Thank you so very much for the wonderful information, I really appreciate that. It is wonderful to see the camaraderie and caring among members of this online group. We may never meet one another face to face, but over the years, it becomes very apparent, where there is genuine common interest and friendship. Axel is precious to all of us, his integrity, (Moon Rocks) knowledge, and sharing are legend, so Christel, please tell Axel, yes he is that important to all of us, and we all care. Hugs, Terrie From smtravis at plateautel.net Fri Nov 16 11:31:30 2007 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Fri Nov 16 11:31:40 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel, References: <200711160206.lAG26fgC028309@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <156C1C38-B9C2-4A55-962B-6774387D5B73@cox.net> Message-ID: <031501c82887$4bc11460$039e5a40@marilyn> Roger that! Steve keep on rockin Axel! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teresa Masters" To: Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:29 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel, > Earl, Rik, and Christel, > Thank you so very much for the wonderful information, I really > appreciate that. It is wonderful to see the camaraderie and caring > among members of this online group. We may never meet one another > face to face, but over the years, it becomes very apparent, where > there is genuine common interest and friendship. > > Axel is precious to all of us, his integrity, (Moon Rocks) knowledge, > and sharing are legend, so Christel, please tell Axel, yes he is that > important to all of us, and we all care. > Hugs, > Terrie > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jerrybs at frii.com Sat Nov 17 06:53:14 2007 From: jerrybs at frii.com (jerry) Date: Sat Nov 17 06:57:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] rust In-Reply-To: <200711130235.lAD2ZEKX014142@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> <20071109005458.6391F1CC35@io.frii.com> <20071110164032.A0A3F6786C@mail.frii.com> <200711130235.lAD2ZEKX014142@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20071117145610.E6F69678FA@mail.frii.com> I was able to get the MSDS for the Crystal Cut and some of the components would not be easy to get. I placed an order with Abrasive Technology and was frustrated finding the Crystal Cut was $46 and they had a $50 minimum. Although, their shipping is a good price. Jerry WA At 09:12 AM 11/10/07, you wrote: >Products like Crystal Cut are actually a combination of wetting >agent(s) and corrosion inhibitor(s). You can buy it by the pound and >a pound probably lasts me a year or so in my Titan at 1 oz./gallon. >I premix a gallon jug and just add water to the Titan when needed. >10 lbs. is $46 from Crystalite. I highly doubt that Crystalite is >repackaging anything; I assume they are buying the commercial >products wholesale and mixing them for resale. Commercial wetting >agents and corrosion inhibiting additives are expensive. See >http://www.corrosionvci.com/corrosion/products.php?cat=37 for some >typical prices (gulp). Wiki has a good article on rust inhibitors >that has long list of what look to be chemicals that i would not >want to have around the house: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrosion_inhibitor > >At 08:38 AM 11/10/2007, you wrote: >>What do you use for a rust inhibitor that I can get at the local >>hardware store? This will be used in the water for flat laps and vibro laps. >> >>I had been using silicone spray and getting descent results, >>looking for something better. I know lapidary dealers sell stuff, >>but I would like to know what they are repackaging. >> >>Jerry >>WA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.0/1135 - Release Date: 11/16/07 10:58 PM From Pmodreski at aol.com Sat Nov 17 08:38:07 2007 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Sat Nov 17 08:38:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Public displays -- How much info on labels? Message-ID: Just wanted to add a few afterthought comments to this earlier discussion on display labels--I'd read all the posts but hadn't made any comments myself. Of course, I think those of us who are "real" mineral collectors would always advocate having as complete locality information as possible on display labels--that's what we'd like to see, and perhaps it will mean something to some of the visitors, and perhaps others will just ignore most of the info and just process that it says "Mexico", but it's certainly best for all the info to be there. And gradually, a little of the extra info may seep in to more of the visitors' consciousness, too. I knew I'd recently seen some examples where locality info could have been improved more than it was, and it took me a few minutes to recall where this was. I believe it was, in fact, at the Colorado School of Mines geology museum, which as many of you may know has absolutely EXCELLENT displays of minerals, and well worth a visit whenever you are in the Denver area--generally open every day, and no admission charge ("9-4 Mon-Sat, 1-4 Sun, closed all CSM Holidays and Sundays during summer")--excellent specimens and excellent display areas and lighting. Most specimens are CSM's own permanent collection, and some material is on loan from the likes of Marty Zinn and David Bunk. But it was there that I noticed a few labels that were a little short on locality information, and I think this may have been for some of the specimens on temporary loan (I'm not knocking them--great to have them there--and one can excuse the slightly weak labelling for things that are not permanently displayed). Some of the labels had evidently been prepared in a format that only permitted space for one line for the locality information, so whatever did not fit on one line, was not there. I recall one or two that just gave a mine name and the state; now, that's OK if the mine is a familar one (e.g., Bisbee, Butte), but when the mine was an obscure name (or perhaps just the recently coined name of someone's mining claim), if one simply reads "Leaping Lizard miine, Colorado", that really tells one nothing--where in the HECK in the state might that be, near what town or county or mining district, or even what quadrant of the state? Many displays take the shortcut of not including chemical formula or composition. For a permanent museum display, I'd certainly like to see this, but one understands there are pardonable reasons for sometimes not including it--label space limitation, complexities of some formulas (and the fact that the accepted formula may change every few years!), and so on. For the "average" visitor it would be nice to include it, to help educate--those that care--about what the mineral is. For myself, my "pet peeve" is when the mineral is a really rare and seldom encountered species, and when one just sees the mineral name and nothing else, I'm left wondering, "what the heck is that, anyway?"; again, the typical lay person visitor might not ever give it a thought. My related pet peeve is where the only mineral identity labelled on a specimen on display is for one quite rare mineral that is present on the specimen, but which may form just a small fraction of the visible surface of the specimen. Quite likely I will know that the label of "Prettydarnrareite" refers to the tiny little shiny blue-black crystals on the specimen, but the "average" visitor is going to look at that specimen and see lots of white stuff (quartz), green stuff (fluorite), black stuff (galena), and brown stuff (sphalerite), but have absolutely no clue which is the "prettydarnrareite", and probably go away with a totally mistaken impression of which of these white or green or black or brown or blue minerals the label referred to. This probably happens more often in dealers' displays than at museums. Enough for now, I guess. Good wishes to all, (and hang in there and get better real quick, Axel!), Pete ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sat Nov 17 10:31:12 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Sat Nov 17 10:31:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sliding Rocks Redux In-Reply-To: <005701c8219d$585078b0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <005701c8219d$585078b0$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <006301c82948$0854abd0$6b01a8c0@okapi> Remember that discussion about "sliding rocks" a week or so ago? Well, I can say they are REAL. Sort of. Or, as the Youth of America says "In Your Dreams..." There I was, on the edge of a western US valley, a little dry stream bed off in the distance. I see a cloud of dust and walk over to the stream bed. Being pushed along by a good breeze are not one but TWO BIG BOULDERS! There's a little rolling gravel on the front edge, but those puppies are getting pushed along by the wind! I have GOT to get pictures of this for the Rockhounds List! I immediately run back to the car and grab my Nikon D80 and try to switch the normal lens out for the tele. Gee... I don't remember the Nikon having a Pentax screw mount???!!! I can't swap out the lens, the rocks slide off into the distance and drop into a reservoir (where did that come from???), and I move on to other things. So, there's the latest in my "rockhound dreams"... A follow up to my "digging gems in the roadside" dream of a couple of years ago. WWFS? (What Would Freud Say?) Gary Brown Catspaw Minerals Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Fused Light Distinctive Warm Glass Creations http://www.fusedlight.com From WindowsLive at microsoft.com Fri Nov 16 20:53:19 2007 From: WindowsLive at microsoft.com (Windows Live) Date: Sat Nov 17 12:05:36 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] View Glenn Wimpee's photos on Windows Live Spaces Message-ID: <7AC14D77E6CA4120AE56223605A84F5B@phx.gbl> Glenn Wimpee wants to share photos with you. View the photos 2007 10-31 to 11-2 (50) Check out the photo album I posted on Windows Live. The pics are from our trip to the Moab, Utah area. Included are from the Colorado River Road out of Moab, Arches National Park, Canyonlands National Park, and nearby areas. Microsoft respects your privacy. To learn more, please read our privacy statement . Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg image/gif --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 17 13:39:48 2007 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Nov 17 13:39:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Advertisement Message-ID: <000c01c82962$60ddedb0$b6f9d24c@LarryRush> We have had a very good year. Good health, good minerals, family, and good friends! What more could we ask for! Christmas Sale - 25% Off everything! www.ConnRoxMinerals.com Thanks....Larry Rush "Noel Coward thought work was more fun than play, but he never, ever worked in the mines" --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sat Nov 17 15:46:47 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sat Nov 17 15:40:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] View Glenn Wimpee's photos on Windows Live Spaces References: <7AC14D77E6CA4120AE56223605A84F5B@phx.gbl> Message-ID: <473F7BEF.2027@Tomaszewski.net> Nice pictures Glenn. Thanks for sharing them. Kreigh Windows Live wrote: > > Glenn Wimpee wants to share photos with you. > > View the photos > > 2007 10-31 to 11-2 (50) > Check out the photo album I posted on Windows Live. > The pics are from our trip to the Moab, Utah area. > Included are from the Colorado River Road out of Moab, Arches National Park, Canyonlands National Park, and nearby areas. > > Microsoft respects your privacy. To learn more, please read our privacy statement . > Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052 > From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Nov 18 11:23:45 2007 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Nov 18 11:23:57 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Again alive and kicking... Message-ID: <003301c82a18$8a2bff20$9e83fd60$@dillen@skynet.be> Dear all, I just came back from a visit to Axel in hospital. His body seems a bit tired (of course), but his voice is vivid as before. that is for me the signal that he is really OK. It is quite probable that he will be released from the hospital and return home already by next Tuesday or Wednesday, which is remarkable after such an important surgery. He asked me to greet all of you, and to thank you for caring so much about him. He was very touched by all the reactions he got from all over the world. Please take into account that, although he will be home soon, his complete revalidation will take some time, and it might take a while before he can reply to all the e-mail messages he got. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From munchiej at yahoo.com Sat Nov 17 13:31:19 2007 From: munchiej at yahoo.com (Colleen Darnell) Date: Sun Nov 18 11:31:41 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causes auto-immune disease Message-ID: <368968.29139.qm@web45409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Rockhounds, I have found out what causes auto-immune disease but I am not a doctor. I have just pieced the puzzle together,. Oxalic and phytic acids in excess create insoluble calcium salts in the interstitial fluid. when they accumulate and saturate the interstital fluid this inhibits the Parathyroid hormone release. This disrupts the Pth/calcitonin negative feedback system that regulates calcium and phosphate absorption. This disruption produces excess phosphate ions that are not excreted, and deficient calcium ions. These disruptions create the negative feedback system activation that leads to the symptoms that are called auto-immune disease. We are consuming the plant (soy) in 90% of the processed food and it has the highest of the plants of oxalic and phytic acids. So we are not consuming these acids in moderation which means they are affecting our nutrients. As the insoluble calcium salts saturate the internal area then the internal area registers to much calcium and the cells are starving. The body perceives this alteration to mean that the blood pressure is low because it is not receiving enough richly supplied blood. It activates the low blood pressure negative feedback system, the stress responses, and the shock response. The body's internal specialist detect this cell starvation instantly and instigate these powerful responses. The symptoms of disease does not manifest itself until the internal environment has to be altered to accommodate the internal corrections and the hormones have been released so long that they finally become excessive. The symptoms from these long term correction began to manifest themselves and at this time the doctors run test and find the adjustments and declare them as abnormal and began treating them. To confirm this all a person has to do is look at the low blood pressure adjustments and the medical establishments treatment for high blood pressure and you will find they are the same. So the doctors are only treating the adjustments and that is why it is declared to be an auto-immune disease... I believe high blood pressure and heart disease originally started out as a low blood pressure problem created by these two acids blocking the calcium ions. And the high blood pressure the doctors begin treating is only the correction attempts adjustments.The low calcium ion cause decreased muscle contraction ability in the heart pump. This causes a drop in the blood pressure and this I believe is the beginning of heart disease that is being overlooked, distracting the finding of a cure for heart disease. Same thing with diabetes. These two acids inhibit iron which creates low oxygen and deficient oxygen in the cellular metabolism of energy leads to deficient ATP production. This deficient ATP production triggers the internal regulating systems that all glucose needs to be released into the blood for ATP production. But all the glucose in the world will not fix the disrupted ATP production process so the glucose only becomes excessive... So I do not believe diabetes starts out as a high glucose problem that is only the adjustment , it starts out as a disruption in the production of the ATP that is perceived by the body to be a low glucose problem . I wrote you to find out if you could tell me what would remove a saturation of the interstitial fluid by the oxalic and phytic acids all this is my opinion but I feel all auto-immune disease is caused by this disruption. I have traced it to the nerve diseases, aids, the brain diseases, ms, cancers, and many more. If you would be interested or know of any one that would be interested in this information I have a very long form letter that I will send anyone that has a desire to know the root cause of auto-immune disease (in my opinion) thank you for your time, munchiej@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tam2819 at gmail.com Sat Nov 17 18:44:44 2007 From: tam2819 at gmail.com (Teresa Masters) Date: Sun Nov 18 11:31:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Glenn's Photos In-Reply-To: <200711180202.lAI226mR008487@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200711180202.lAI226mR008487@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <5908461E-0B59-40C7-AFE6-EBBDF2D3A94D@cox.net> Glenn, Thanks for the memories, wandered those very areas with my then young grandsons. BTW, very sweet child and lovely family. Terrie From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sun Nov 18 11:44:55 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Nov 18 11:44:59 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Again alive and kicking... In-Reply-To: <003301c82a18$8a2bff20$9e83fd60$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <003301c82a18$8a2bff20$9e83fd60$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <473491750011DE69@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) That is excellent news, Rik. Thank you for the update. Aloha, Kitty At 09:23 AM 11/18/2007, you wrote: >Dear all, > >I just came back from a visit to Axel in hospital. >His body seems a bit tired (of course), but his voice is vivid as >before. that is for me the signal that he is really >OK. > >It is quite probable that he will be released from the hospital and >return home already by next Tuesday or Wednesday, >which is remarkable after such an important surgery. >He asked me to greet all of you, and to thank you for caring so much >about him. He was very touched by all the reactions >he got from all over the world. > >Please take into account that, although he will be home soon, his >complete revalidation will take some time, and it >might take a while before he can reply to all the e-mail messages he got. > >Best regards, > >Rik DILLEN From nospam at orerockon.com Sun Nov 18 14:21:09 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Nov 18 14:21:16 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causes auto-immune disease In-Reply-To: <368968.29139.qm@web45409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <368968.29139.qm@web45409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200711182221.lAIMLEK9005995@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I certainly hope this person has been banned... At 01:31 PM 11/17/2007, you wrote: >Rockhounds, > > I have found out what causes auto-immune disease but I am not a > doctor. I have just pieced the puzzle together,. > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Nov 18 14:34:59 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Nov 18 14:36:17 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causesauto-immune disease References: <368968.29139.qm@web45409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <200711182221.lAIMLEK9005995@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <005201c82a33$459aca10$0200a8c0@Notebook> Tim, She is not a list member. This post came out of the spam pile this morning and although I did not read it through, I thought it might be interesting to some. Reading it now, by light of day and fully caffeinated, I must say that I don't understand a word of it. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causesauto-immune disease >I certainly hope this person has been banned... > > At 01:31 PM 11/17/2007, you wrote: >>Rockhounds, >> >> I have found out what causes auto-immune disease but I am not a doctor. >> I have just pieced the puzzle together,. >> > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Nov 18 14:51:06 2007 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Nov 18 14:51:10 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causesauto-immune disease In-Reply-To: <005201c82a33$459aca10$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <355998.62936.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It's so ridiculous that it would be funny, except someone might actually believe it! Jim John Siebel wrote: Tim, She is not a list member. This post came out of the spam pile this morning and although I did not read it through, I thought it might be interesting to some. Reading it now, by light of day and fully caffeinated, I must say that I don't understand a word of it. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causesauto-immune disease >I certainly hope this person has been banned... > > At 01:31 PM 11/17/2007, you wrote: >>Rockhounds, >> >> I have found out what causes auto-immune disease but I am not a doctor. >> I have just pieced the puzzle together,. >> > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Nov 18 14:57:07 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Nov 18 14:58:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causesauto-immunedisease References: <355998.62936.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005901c82a36$5c74acd0$0200a8c0@Notebook> Apologies to all for letting that one slip by. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causesauto-immunedisease > It's so ridiculous that it would be funny, except someone might actually > believe it! > Jim > > John Siebel wrote: > Tim, > > She is not a list member. This post came out of the spam pile this morning > and although I did not read it through, I thought it might be interesting > to > some. Reading it now, by light of day and fully caffeinated, I must say > that > I don't understand a word of it. > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Fisher" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:21 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Oxalic acid toxicity in > humans..causesauto-immune > disease > > >>I certainly hope this person has been banned... >> >> At 01:31 PM 11/17/2007, you wrote: >>>Rockhounds, >>> >>> I have found out what causes auto-immune disease but I am not a doctor. >>> I have just pieced the puzzle together,. >>> >> >> Tim Fisher >> Ore-ROCK-On! >> Email address at http://OreRockOn.com >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --------------------------------- > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From tjokela at execulink.com Sun Nov 18 15:50:37 2007 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sun Nov 18 15:50:38 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causes auto-immunedisease References: <368968.29139.qm@web45409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001e01c82a3d$d1fb0600$6400a8c0@Junior> Finally, a cure for all disease! Give this gal a Nobel already! Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Business: http://www.element51.com Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colleen Darnell" To: Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2007 4:31 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causes auto-immunedisease > Rockhounds, > > I have found out what causes auto-immune disease but I am not a doctor. I > have just pieced the puzzle together,. > Oxalic and phytic acids in excess create insoluble calcium salts in the > interstitial fluid. when they accumulate and saturate the interstital > fluid this inhibits the Parathyroid hormone release. This disrupts the > Pth/calcitonin negative feedback system that regulates calcium and > phosphate absorption. This disruption produces excess phosphate ions that > are not excreted, and deficient calcium ions. These disruptions create the > negative feedback system activation that leads to the symptoms that are > called auto-immune disease. > We are consuming the plant (soy) in 90% of the processed food and it has > the highest of the plants of oxalic and phytic acids. So we are not > consuming these acids in moderation which means they are affecting our > nutrients. As the insoluble calcium salts saturate the internal area then > the internal area registers to much calcium and the cells are starving. > > The body perceives this alteration to mean that the blood pressure is > low because it is not receiving enough richly supplied blood. It activates > the low blood pressure negative feedback system, the stress responses, and > the shock response. > The body's internal specialist detect this cell starvation instantly and > instigate these powerful responses. The symptoms of disease does not > manifest itself until the internal environment has to be altered to > accommodate the internal corrections and the hormones have been released > so long that they finally become excessive. The symptoms from these long > term correction began to manifest themselves and at this time the doctors > run test and find the adjustments and declare them as abnormal and began > treating them. To confirm this all a person has to do is look at the low > blood pressure adjustments and the medical establishments treatment for > high blood pressure and you will find they are the same. > So the doctors are only treating the adjustments and that is why it is > declared to be an auto-immune disease... > I believe high blood pressure and heart disease originally started out as > a low blood pressure problem created by these two acids blocking the > calcium ions. And the high blood pressure the doctors begin treating is > only the correction attempts adjustments.The low calcium ion cause > decreased muscle contraction ability in the heart pump. This causes a > drop in the blood pressure and this I believe is the beginning of heart > disease that is being overlooked, distracting the finding of a cure for > heart disease. > > Same thing with diabetes. These two acids inhibit iron which creates low > oxygen and deficient oxygen in the cellular metabolism of energy leads to > deficient ATP production. This deficient ATP production triggers the > internal regulating systems that all glucose needs to be released into the > blood for ATP production. But all the glucose in the world will not fix > the disrupted ATP production process so the glucose only becomes > excessive... So I do not believe diabetes starts out as a high glucose > problem that is only the adjustment , it starts out as a disruption in the > production of the ATP that is perceived by the body to be a low glucose > problem . > I wrote you to find out if you could tell me what would remove a > saturation of the interstitial fluid by the oxalic and phytic acids all > this is my opinion but I feel all auto-immune disease is caused by this > disruption. I have traced it to the nerve diseases, aids, the brain > diseases, ms, cancers, and many more. If you would be interested or know > of any one that would be interested in this information I have a very long > form letter that I will send anyone that has a desire to know the root > cause of auto-immune disease (in my opinion) > thank you for your time, > munchiej@yahoo.com > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lavenderfish at cox.net Sun Nov 18 15:57:50 2007 From: lavenderfish at cox.net (Carol Carter-Wientjes) Date: Sun Nov 18 15:57:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Eastwind vs. Nova wheels? Message-ID: <035c01c82a3e$d385a830$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Santa asked me for a wish list and at the top is new wheels for my friend Genie. Question is, should I try Eastwind this time or stick with Nova wheels? Have any of you or anyone you know tried Eastwind to know how much if any difference there is performance-wise between the two brands? Seems to be quite a price diff. but I really don't want to assume this is a "get what you pay for" thing. I've tried the mini Eastwind diamond discs for carving and they work great. Just dunno anything about the cabbing wheels. Much thanks from both Santa and me for any suggestions, Carol --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Nov 18 17:48:39 2007 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sun Nov 18 17:48:59 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Eastwind vs. Nova wheels? References: <035c01c82a3e$d385a830$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Message-ID: <061a01c82a4e$4ec3ce50$039e5a40@marilyn> we bought two 220 eastwind wheels for the club shop. they have worked fine so far but the club shop doesn't get a hard workout. One of them was abused by a inexperienced member and while working a large piece of rough malachite he took a chunk out of the wheel but I don't blame the quality of the wheel just a bad experience. sorry thats all I know. I think there quality is pretty good prob not as good as DP but the cost dif is major. I still like the old sicarb expando drum. good luck Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Carter-Wientjes" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 4:57 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Eastwind vs. Nova wheels? Santa asked me for a wish list and at the top is new wheels for my friend Genie. Question is, should I try Eastwind this time or stick with Nova wheels? Have any of you or anyone you know tried Eastwind to know how much if any difference there is performance-wise between the two brands? Seems to be quite a price diff. but I really don't want to assume this is a "get what you pay for" thing. I've tried the mini Eastwind diamond discs for carving and they work great. Just dunno anything about the cabbing wheels. Much thanks from both Santa and me for any suggestions, Carol --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jerrybs at frii.com Sun Nov 18 17:51:50 2007 From: jerrybs at frii.com (jerry) Date: Sun Nov 18 17:54:53 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petoskey rough wanted In-Reply-To: <200711130235.lAD2ZEKX014142@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> <20071109005458.6391F1CC35@io.frii.com> <20071110164032.A0A3F6786C@mail.frii.com> <200711130235.lAD2ZEKX014142@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <20071119015451.0E27C6781F@mail.frii.com> I'm interested in a large piece of Petoskey rough to make a sphere. Contact me off list. Jerry WA -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.0/1137 - Release Date: 11/18/07 5:15 PM From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sun Nov 18 18:04:14 2007 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sun Nov 18 18:03:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights References: Message-ID: <005c01c82a50$7be1e050$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> The Larson's send out a bi-monthly e-newsletter called "Mineral News" not to be confused with the more established paper publication. They frequently cover gem purchasing in Myanmar (Burma), a country where a couple of military men use the country's wealth for their personal benefit - to the detriment of their people and environment. I am curious where members of this listserve stand on purchasing gem rough and mineral specimens from countries run by dictators who use the wealth like those in Burma, especially where those who benefit use the income to buy weapons and/or would want to ultimately kill the very people who buy their specimens if they had a chance. I realize that politcal leaders come and go. Some people might lump China and Myanmar in the same category because they personally abhor a country's leader. However, considering what has been done with diamonds from certain African countries, I am not aware of any spillover from other gems / minerals that might cause similar misery. Some might also say, well what about oil sales? For the purposes of this thread, let's stick to minerals and gemstones. Me? I am not particularly interested gemstones and my personal hobby budget doesn't allow for a lot of purchases anyway. I certainly wouldn't knowingly purchase a mineral specimen that would allow the Taliban or Al Quaeda to buy weapons, but I'm privvy to the behind-the-scenes dealing to make a wise choice. (With the notible exception of Dudley Blauwet's travellogues in the Pakistan - Afghanistan that I certainly enjoy. It sound like he's dealing with good people.) I don't want to discussion to cause any "flame wars" because people have political interests across the spectrum, but how do you feel about it? Alan From marksev at cox.net Sun Nov 18 18:44:23 2007 From: marksev at cox.net (Mark Severns) Date: Sun Nov 18 18:44:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights References: <005c01c82a50$7be1e050$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <00b401c82a56$17bfd0e0$030ba8c0@markA86DE9A744> Two days back a news snip showed Laura Bush asking those in the gemstone world to boycott any rough or faceted gems from Burma. I do not ever recall a Presidents wife to make such a stand on gems. She didn't on blood diamonds did she? Just caught my attention as i certainly did not expect to see her photo with the words, "gems from Burma" in this political context. Thank you for allowing this newbie to be a part of your community! I read every post and am gleaning insight from all of your education and personal experiences. It is a priviledge A newbie, Mark Severns from Arizona. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights > The Larson's send out a bi-monthly e-newsletter called "Mineral News" not > to be confused with the more established paper publication. They > frequently cover gem purchasing in Myanmar (Burma), a country where a > couple of military men use the country's wealth for their personal > benefit - to the detriment of their people and environment. I am curious > where members of this listserve stand on purchasing gem rough and mineral > specimens from countries run by dictators who use the wealth like those in > Burma, especially where those who benefit use the income to buy weapons > and/or would want to ultimately kill the very people who buy their > specimens if they had a chance. > > I realize that politcal leaders come and go. Some people might lump China > and Myanmar in the same category because they personally abhor a country's > leader. However, considering what has been done with diamonds from certain > African countries, I am not aware of any spillover from other gems / > minerals that might cause similar misery. Some might also say, well what > about oil sales? For the purposes of this thread, let's stick to minerals > and gemstones. > > Me? I am not particularly interested gemstones and my personal hobby > budget doesn't allow for a lot of purchases anyway. I certainly wouldn't > knowingly purchase a mineral specimen that would allow the Taliban or Al > Quaeda to buy weapons, but I'm privvy to the behind-the-scenes dealing to > make a wise choice. (With the notible exception of Dudley Blauwet's > travellogues in the Pakistan - Afghanistan that I certainly enjoy. It > sound like he's dealing with good people.) > > I don't want to discussion to cause any "flame wars" because people have > political interests across the spectrum, but how do you feel about it? > > Alan > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From smtravis at plateautel.net Sun Nov 18 19:19:57 2007 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (Steve & Marilyn) Date: Sun Nov 18 19:20:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights References: <005c01c82a50$7be1e050$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <062b01c82a5b$12030f00$039e5a40@marilyn> It is my understanding that it is illegal to purchase import/trade with Myamar in the US. Which makes good "burma" rubies all that much more expensive and I am sure they still make it out and i.e are for sale. Alan your original ? leaves no doubt how you stand on the ? so when you say no flames you limit response to "No I would never do that". How can you bring up oil a mineral resource and say lets not talk about that, sounds like we are only talking about the bad guys outside of the US. You know the world isn't so sure were not the bad guys any more. Can't say I dont understand why, If we are going to banter about the bad guys how about Congrees and the new mining bill. I'm not in favor of that one and why are we putting off the vote, those at the NM Mineral Symposium last week say that the DEMO' are putting it off till they get in power and can ride it on in. Kind of like Bill's last acts as Prez. I don't think the Demos are worse than the repb but I don't think they are for the people any more either. I am more concerned about what is going on here in the US with my human rights than I am about Burma although I don't think killing people and overriding their human rights is acceptable anywhere. Just I can't do anything about it there and I am still delusional enough to think I might be able to do something about it here. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:04 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights > The Larson's send out a bi-monthly e-newsletter called "Mineral News" not > to be confused with the more established paper publication. They > frequently cover gem purchasing in Myanmar (Burma), a country where a > couple of military men use the country's wealth for their personal > benefit - to the detriment of their people and environment. I am curious > where members of this listserve stand on purchasing gem rough and mineral > specimens from countries run by dictators who use the wealth like those in > Burma, especially where those who benefit use the income to buy weapons > and/or would want to ultimately kill the very people who buy their > specimens if they had a chance. > > I realize that politcal leaders come and go. Some people might lump China > and Myanmar in the same category because they personally abhor a country's > leader. However, considering what has been done with diamonds from certain > African countries, I am not aware of any spillover from other gems / > minerals that might cause similar misery. Some might also say, well what > about oil sales? For the purposes of this thread, let's stick to minerals > and gemstones. > > Me? I am not particularly interested gemstones and my personal hobby > budget doesn't allow for a lot of purchases anyway. I certainly wouldn't > knowingly purchase a mineral specimen that would allow the Taliban or Al > Quaeda to buy weapons, but I'm privvy to the behind-the-scenes dealing to > make a wise choice. (With the notible exception of Dudley Blauwet's > travellogues in the Pakistan - Afghanistan that I certainly enjoy. It > sound like he's dealing with good people.) > > I don't want to discussion to cause any "flame wars" because people have > political interests across the spectrum, but how do you feel about it? > > Alan > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Nov 18 19:46:01 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Nov 18 19:35:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Again alive and kicking... References: <003301c82a18$8a2bff20$9e83fd60$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <4741048C.6F9C@Tomaszewski.net> Rik, Thank you for keeping us aware of our friend Axel's status and condition. I will continue to Pray for healing, strength, and a full recovery for Axel and his family. That was good news. Thanks again for representing the Drizzle List community personally to Axel, and his family, during this medical crisis. Kreigh Rik Dillen wrote: > > Dear all, > > I just came back from a visit to Axel in hospital. > His body seems a bit tired (of course), but his voice is vivid as before. that is for me the signal that he is really > OK. > > It is quite probable that he will be released from the hospital and return home already by next Tuesday or Wednesday, > which is remarkable after such an important surgery. > He asked me to greet all of you, and to thank you for caring so much about him. He was very touched by all the reactions > he got from all over the world. > > Please take into account that, although he will be home soon, his complete revalidation will take some time, and it > might take a while before he can reply to all the e-mail messages he got. > > Best regards, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Nov 18 19:52:06 2007 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Nov 18 19:51:56 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights References: <005c01c82a50$7be1e050$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <001f01c82a5f$8edfa3e0$1efbf604@TheBlackAdder> I agree 100% with what Alan has written here, and have wondered some of the same things myself, particularly on mineral speciemns from Afghanistan and Pakistan. How do the traders get the minerals and gems out of those mountainous areas? Are heavy bribes paid to unsavory characters who would kill all of us if they could? I've heard Bill Larson give two presentations to our club ( www.FGMS.org) about the rubies from Burma. The last one was over a year ago, and my old memory isn't that great, but, the overall impression I got it was that it is not a simple matter to travel into the northern interior of the country and seek out a few dealers. Bill showed some great photos of his last trip. The last thing I want to do is make a reckless or false statement about how one buys gems and minerals in a brutal military dictatorship, but it does make one wonder how these deals are done. Larson has reviewed a book on Burma's rubys at: http://www.palagems.com/burma_ruby_book_review.htm There is a lengthy report on Burma's gem trade at: http://www.palagems.com/gem_news_burma_stats.htm And, I would add that I applaud the First Lady for her outspokeness on the Burmese gem trade, which are far easier to track than 'blood diamonds' whose provenance is very uncertain. Cheers, Erich Kern Murrieta, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Goldstein To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:04 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights The Larson's send out a bi-monthly e-newsletter called "Mineral News" not to be confused with the more established paper publication. They frequently cover gem purchasing in Myanmar (Burma), a country where a couple of military men use the country's wealth for their personal benefit - to the detriment of their people and environment. I am curious where members of this listserve stand on purchasing gem rough and mineral specimens from countries run by dictators who use the wealth like those in Burma, especially where those who benefit use the income to buy weapons and/or would want to ultimately kill the very people who buy their specimens if they had a chance. I realize that politcal leaders come and go. Some people might lump China and Myanmar in the same category because they personally abhor a country's leader. However, considering what has been done with diamonds from certain African countries, I am not aware of any spillover from other gems / minerals that might cause similar misery. Some might also say, well what about oil sales? For the purposes of this thread, let's stick to minerals and gemstones. Me? I am not particularly interested gemstones and my personal hobby budget doesn't allow for a lot of purchases anyway. I certainly wouldn't knowingly purchase a mineral specimen that would allow the Taliban or Al Quaeda to buy weapons, but I'm privvy to the behind-the-scenes dealing to make a wise choice. (With the notible exception of Dudley Blauwet's travellogues in the Pakistan - Afghanistan that I certainly enjoy. It sound like he's dealing with good people.) I don't want to discussion to cause any "flame wars" because people have political interests across the spectrum, but how do you feel about it? Alan -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Jacqueline at Kiffe.com Sun Nov 18 20:04:34 2007 From: Jacqueline at Kiffe.com (Jacqueline Kiffe) Date: Sun Nov 18 20:04:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights In-Reply-To: <062b01c82a5b$12030f00$039e5a40@marilyn> References: <005c01c82a50$7be1e050$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <062b01c82a5b$12030f00$039e5a40@marilyn> Message-ID: <000001c82a61$4c5f2fc0$6401a8c0@D3MMZZ71> I am a lurker on this list and feel a bit self-conscious about posting; I subscribed because my dad was a rockhound/lapidary artist/gem collector, because I have a deep interest in spectroscopy, and because I sell gems for a living now that I am too physically disabled to pursue my previous career in research. That does not mean that I do not still want to learn. I read a notice from the GIA requesting members to voluntarily abstain from purchasing Burmese gems. I do participate in this boycott, and also boycott Chinese gems. My stance is that while I cannot boycott every single possible thing that benefits corrupt organizations/countries, this is how I make my living now, and I should do what I can. So I don't carry the best peridot, spinel, or rubies; it is not a matter of life and death for me. If I knew of American sources for purchasing faceted gems or cabs, I would do so happily, but I am still in learning mode, and do not know of any. On a completely separate note, I have a few unused lapidary disks (sorry; don't know the correct term) still in the boxes that I salvaged after my father passed away. I do not know their value, although they are labeled. Are there any clubs or schools that could use them as donations, or is it not worth it? There are only a few. Rather than clog up the list answering my ignorant question, you can respond to Jacqueline at Kiffe dot com, replacing the obvious elements with symbols. I will go back to lurking now. Jacqueline Kiffe From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sun Nov 18 20:06:51 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Nov 18 20:07:06 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADMIN Gems/Minerals and Human Rights In-Reply-To: <001f01c82a5f$8edfa3e0$1efbf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <005c01c82a50$7be1e050$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <001f01c82a5f$8edfa3e0$1efbf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <4734917500125006@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Gentle warning: I think this is a valid topic, and so far it is going well. Let's just be careful to keep it relevant to our hobby, keep the politics to a minimum, and be polite. Aloha, Kitty (for the Admin Team) From rocks at ucla.edu Sun Nov 18 20:46:09 2007 From: rocks at ucla.edu (rocks@ucla.edu) Date: Sun Nov 18 20:46:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oxalic Acid and autoimmune disease. Message-ID: <20071118204609.cekmq255sgc4owwg@mail.ucla.edu> What gibberish, the explanations are medically sounding word salad with a generous dressing of rhetoric. I follow the groups emails but not a writer but that email is a "beauty" Marvin Derezin,M.D., F.A.C.P From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Nov 19 05:47:42 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Nov 19 05:47:46 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights In-Reply-To: <062b01c82a5b$12030f00$039e5a40@marilyn> References: <005c01c82a50$7be1e050$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <062b01c82a5b$12030f00$039e5a40@marilyn> Message-ID: OK this post has veered into politics and that's why this subject is in danger of starting a flame war. BK On Nov 18, 2007 10:19 PM, Steve & Marilyn wrote: > It is my understanding that it is illegal to purchase import/trade with > Myamar in the US. Which makes good "burma" rubies all that much more > expensive and I am sure they still make it out and i.e are for sale. Alan > your original ? leaves no doubt how you stand on the ? so when you say no > flames you limit response to "No I would never do that". How can you > bring > up oil a mineral resource and say lets not talk about that, sounds like we > are only talking about the bad guys outside of the US. You know the world > isn't so sure were not the bad guys any more. Can't say I dont understand > why, If we are going to banter about the bad guys how about Congrees and > the > new mining bill. I'm not in favor of that one and why are we putting off > the vote, those at the NM Mineral Symposium last week say that the DEMO' > are putting it off till they get in power and can ride it on in. Kind of > like Bill's last acts as Prez. I don't think the Demos are worse than the > repb but I don't think they are for the people any more either. I am more > concerned about what is going on here in the US with my human rights than > I > am about Burma although I don't think killing people and overriding their > human rights is acceptable anywhere. Just I can't do anything about it > there and I am still delusional enough to think I might be able to do > something about it here. Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Goldstein" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:04 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights > > > > The Larson's send out a bi-monthly e-newsletter called "Mineral News" > not > > to be confused with the more established paper publication. They > > frequently cover gem purchasing in Myanmar (Burma), a country where a > > couple of military men use the country's wealth for their personal > > benefit - to the detriment of their people and environment. I am curious > > where members of this listserve stand on purchasing gem rough and > mineral > > specimens from countries run by dictators who use the wealth like those > in > > Burma, especially where those who benefit use the income to buy weapons > > and/or would want to ultimately kill the very people who buy their > > specimens if they had a chance. > > > > I realize that politcal leaders come and go. Some people might lump > China > > and Myanmar in the same category because they personally abhor a > country's > > leader. However, considering what has been done with diamonds from > certain > > African countries, I am not aware of any spillover from other gems / > > minerals that might cause similar misery. Some might also say, well what > > about oil sales? For the purposes of this thread, let's stick to > minerals > > and gemstones. > > > > Me? I am not particularly interested gemstones and my personal hobby > > budget doesn't allow for a lot of purchases anyway. I certainly wouldn't > > knowingly purchase a mineral specimen that would allow the Taliban or Al > > Quaeda to buy weapons, but I'm privvy to the behind-the-scenes dealing > to > > make a wise choice. (With the notible exception of Dudley Blauwet's > > travellogues in the Pakistan - Afghanistan that I certainly enjoy. It > > sound like he's dealing with good people.) > > > > I don't want to discussion to cause any "flame wars" because people have > > political interests across the spectrum, but how do you feel about it? > > > > Alan > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From brenick at gmail.com Mon Nov 19 07:03:04 2007 From: brenick at gmail.com (Nick & Brenda Van Dyke) Date: Mon Nov 19 07:03:40 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petoskey rough wanted In-Reply-To: <20071119015451.0E27C6781F@mail.frii.com> References: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> <20071109005458.6391F1CC35@io.frii.com> <20071110164032.A0A3F6786C@mail.frii.com> <200711130235.lAD2ZEKX014142@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <20071119015451.0E27C6781F@mail.frii.com> Message-ID: <97175ae90711190703s270dc1b9j89433ca7dc7f6aae@mail.gmail.com> what do you consider large? On 11/18/07, jerry wrote: > > I'm interested in a large piece of Petoskey rough to make a > sphere. Contact me off list. > > Jerry > WA > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.0/1137 - Release Date: 11/18/07 > 5:15 PM > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknlight at aol.com Mon Nov 19 12:18:09 2007 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Mon Nov 19 12:18:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] INVISIBLE GERMS and Cutting Oils - Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causes auto-immune disease In-Reply-To: <368968.29139.qm@web45409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <368968.29139.qm@web45409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8C9F9007010EBB2-15AC-12C8@webmail-dd15.sysops.aol.com> This e mail should have been sent to a medical group - As it might lead other medical investigative teams, to ponder the theory.. Although, if there is no pharmacological glut of?money in the cure, the cure will be ignored - I remember when people used Toxic cutting oils back in day and some?still do use them - Such oils?can? cause autoimmune and other diseases....?? I also know that Medical Doctors thought that diseases being caused by invisible germs /?too small for the human eye to see was pure?poppycock ! Personally, I stopped eating any and all?soy products years ago - It is not a healthy food ! -----Original Message----- From: Colleen Darnell To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 1:31 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causes auto-immune disease Rockhounds, I have found out what causes auto-immune disease but I am not a doctor. I have just pieced the puzzle together,. Oxalic and phytic acids in excess create insoluble calcium salts in the interstitial fluid. when they accumulate and saturate the interstital fluid this inhibits the Parathyroid hormone release. This disrupts the Pth/calcitonin negative feedback system that regulates calcium and phosphate absorption. This disruption produces excess phosphate ions that are not excreted, and deficient calcium ions. These disruptions create the negative feedback system activation that leads to the symptoms that are called auto-immune disease. We are consuming the plant (soy) in 90% of the processed food and it has the highest of the plants of oxalic and phytic acids. So we are not consuming these acids in moderation which means they are affecting our nutrients. As the insoluble calcium salts saturate the internal area then the internal area registers to much calcium and the cells are starving. The body perceives this alteration to mean that the blood pressure is low because it is not receiving enough richly supplied blood. It activates the low blood pressure negative feedback system, the stress responses, and the shock response. The body's internal specialist detect this cell starvation instantly and instigate these powerful responses. The symptoms of disease does not manifest itself until the internal environment has to be altered to accommodate the internal corrections and the hormones have been released so long that they finally become excessive. The symptoms from these long term correction began to manifest themselves and at this time the doctors run test and find the adjustments and declare them as abnormal and began treating them. To confirm this all a person has to do is look at the low blood pressure adjustments and the medical establishments treatment for high blood pressure and you will find they are the same. So the doctors are only treating the adjustments and that is why it is declared to be an auto-immune disease... I believe high blood pressure and heart disease originally started out as a low blood pressure problem created by these two acids blocking the calcium ions. And the high blood pressure the doctors begin treating is only the correction attempts adjustments.The low calcium ion cause decreased muscle contraction ability in the heart pump. This causes a drop in the blood pressure and this I believe is the beginning of heart disease that is being overlooked, distracting the finding of a cure for heart disease. Same thing with diabetes. These two acids inhibit iron which creates low oxygen and deficient oxygen in the cellular metabolism of energy leads to deficient ATP production. This deficient ATP production triggers the internal regulating systems that all glucose needs to be released into the blood for ATP production. But all the glucose in the world will not fix the disrupted ATP production process so the glucose only becomes excessive... So I do not believe diabetes starts out as a high glucose problem that is only the adjustment , it starts out as a disruption in the production of the ATP that is perceived by the body to be a low glucose problem . I wrote you to find out if you could tell me what would remove a saturation of the interstitial fluid by the oxalic and phytic acids all this is my opinion but I feel all auto-immune disease is caused by this disruption. I have traced it to the nerve diseases, aids, the brain diseases, ms, cancers, and many more. If you would be interested or know of any one that would be interested in this information I have a very long form letter that I will send anyone that has a desire to know the root cause of auto-immune disease (in my opinion) thank you for your time, munchiej@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From turnea55 at hotmail.com Mon Nov 19 12:29:36 2007 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Mon Nov 19 12:29:44 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights In-Reply-To: Message-ID: While I can see the "controversy" about buying gems/minerals directly from their source which may be a military dictatorship, human rights abuser, etc., I believe making general statements like "boycott gemstones from Burma" is pretty disingenuous. In all reality, few of us buy gems/minerals directly from their source (e.g. the Burmese/Myanmar government or person who found the gem at the mine). For instance, I have minerals from Iran. I bought them from a European dealer who probably purchased them from a miner in Iran decades ago. I'm not supporting the current Iranian government by buying from the European dealer (the dealer is making the money). I have some gems from Burma that I bought from a Thai dealer. The stones were purchased in Burma, sorted in China, cut in Hong Kong, bought by a Thai dealer, and sold to me. I have many minerals from the Congo that I get from a Congolese dealer living in the US. I'm not supporting the Congo governernment by purchasing from him, I am supporting him. While it's true that many gems are illegally smuggled out of the country (i.e. tanzanite), if I puchase that gem (which I do not know if it was smuggled or not), this in no way is helping that rogue government. After all, the gems were probably smuggled out of the country to avoid going through the goverment and some of the money made on the gems probably ends up going to the people in that country which helps them in the long run. While I'm not condoning purchasing illegal or stolen goods and do not want to support insane governments, the truth is we live in such a global economy that it is nearly impossible to avoid having anything from a particular country. Unless we buy directly from the source, there is no way of knowing how the material came to us or how many people have handled it first. This is the same argument that people have used when they see I drive a horrible "Japanese" car (Toyota). The truth is much more of my car was made and assembled in the US than their Ford which was almost entirely made in Mexico. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA USA >From: "J Bryan Kramer" >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights >Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 08:47:42 -0500 > >OK this post has veered into politics and that's why this subject is in >danger of starting a flame war. > >BK > >On Nov 18, 2007 10:19 PM, Steve & Marilyn wrote: > > > It is my understanding that it is illegal to purchase import/trade with > > Myamar in the US. Which makes good "burma" rubies all that much more > > expensive and I am sure they still make it out and i.e are for sale. >Alan > > your original ? leaves no doubt how you stand on the ? so when you say >no > > flames you limit response to "No I would never do that". How can you > > bring > > up oil a mineral resource and say lets not talk about that, sounds like >we > > are only talking about the bad guys outside of the US. You know the >world > > isn't so sure were not the bad guys any more. Can't say I dont >understand > > why, If we are going to banter about the bad guys how about Congrees and > > the > > new mining bill. I'm not in favor of that one and why are we putting >off > > the vote, those at the NM Mineral Symposium last week say that the >DEMO' > > are putting it off till they get in power and can ride it on in. Kind >of > > like Bill's last acts as Prez. I don't think the Demos are worse than >the > > repb but I don't think they are for the people any more either. I am >more > > concerned about what is going on here in the US with my human rights >than > > I > > am about Burma although I don't think killing people and overriding >their > > human rights is acceptable anywhere. Just I can't do anything about it > > there and I am still delusional enough to think I might be able to do > > something about it here. Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Alan Goldstein" > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:04 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights > > > > > > > The Larson's send out a bi-monthly e-newsletter called "Mineral News" > > not > > > to be confused with the more established paper publication. They > > > frequently cover gem purchasing in Myanmar (Burma), a country where a > > > couple of military men use the country's wealth for their personal > > > benefit - to the detriment of their people and environment. I am >curious > > > where members of this listserve stand on purchasing gem rough and > > mineral > > > specimens from countries run by dictators who use the wealth like >those > > in > > > Burma, especially where those who benefit use the income to buy >weapons > > > and/or would want to ultimately kill the very people who buy their > > > specimens if they had a chance. > > > > > > I realize that politcal leaders come and go. Some people might lump > > China > > > and Myanmar in the same category because they personally abhor a > > country's > > > leader. However, considering what has been done with diamonds from > > certain > > > African countries, I am not aware of any spillover from other gems / > > > minerals that might cause similar misery. Some might also say, well >what > > > about oil sales? For the purposes of this thread, let's stick to > > minerals > > > and gemstones. > > > > > > Me? I am not particularly interested gemstones and my personal hobby > > > budget doesn't allow for a lot of purchases anyway. I certainly >wouldn't > > > knowingly purchase a mineral specimen that would allow the Taliban or >Al > > > Quaeda to buy weapons, but I'm privvy to the behind-the-scenes dealing > > to > > > make a wise choice. (With the notible exception of Dudley Blauwet's > > > travellogues in the Pakistan - Afghanistan that I certainly enjoy. It > > > sound like he's dealing with good people.) > > > > > > I don't want to discussion to cause any "flame wars" because people >have > > > political interests across the spectrum, but how do you feel about it? > > > > > > Alan > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > >-- >J Bryan Kramer >North Florida, USA >photos at: >http://pbase.com/photoburner > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Nov 19 12:41:22 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Nov 19 12:41:31 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And if you want to carry this philosophy to it's logical conclusion then you'd have to give up your cell phone since I understand the tantalum used in the cell phones is produced in slave labor conditions. Most electronics use tantalum capacitors so you'd have to drop all of them. My philosophy is that, while it may be unfortunate that dictators thrive in the world, people get the government that they deserve. If they don't like dictators then they should take a clue from 1776. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to William Stephens Smith, 13 November 1787) If they aren't willing to spend their own blood then it is no concern of ours. BK On Nov 19, 2007 3:29 PM, Andrew Turner wrote: > While I can see the "controversy" about buying gems/minerals directly from > their source which may be a military dictatorship, human rights abuser, > etc., I believe making general statements like "boycott gemstones from > Burma" is pretty disingenuous. In all reality, few of us buy > gems/minerals > directly from their source (e.g. the Burmese/Myanmar government or person > who found the gem at the mine). For instance, I have minerals from Iran. > I > bought them from a European dealer who probably purchased them from a > miner > in Iran decades ago. I'm not supporting the current Iranian government by > buying from the European dealer (the dealer is making the money). I have > some gems from Burma that I bought from a Thai dealer. The stones were > purchased in Burma, sorted in China, cut in Hong Kong, bought by a Thai > dealer, and sold to me. I have many minerals from the Congo that I get > from > a Congolese dealer living in the US. I'm not supporting the Congo > governernment by purchasing from him, I am supporting him. While it's > true > that many gems are illegally smuggled out of the country (i.e. tanzanite), > if I puchase that gem (which I do not know if it was smuggled or not), > this > in no way is helping that rogue government. After all, the gems were > probably smuggled out of the country to avoid going through the goverment > and some of the money made on the gems probably ends up going to the > people > in that country which helps them in the long run. > > While I'm not condoning purchasing illegal or stolen goods and do not want > to support insane governments, the truth is we live in such a global > economy > that it is nearly impossible to avoid having anything from a particular > country. Unless we buy directly from the source, there is no way of > knowing > how the material came to us or how many people have handled it first. > This > is the same argument that people have used when they see I drive a > horrible > "Japanese" car (Toyota). The truth is much more of my car was made and > assembled in the US than their Ford which was almost entirely made in > Mexico. > > Andrew Turner > Victorville, CA USA > > > >From: "J Bryan Kramer" > >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >collectors" > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights > >Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 08:47:42 -0500 > > > >OK this post has veered into politics and that's why this subject is in > >danger of starting a flame war. > > > >BK > > > >On Nov 18, 2007 10:19 PM, Steve & Marilyn > wrote: > > > > > It is my understanding that it is illegal to purchase import/trade > with > > > Myamar in the US. Which makes good "burma" rubies all that much more > > > expensive and I am sure they still make it out and i.e are for sale. > >Alan > > > your original ? leaves no doubt how you stand on the ? so when you say > >no > > > flames you limit response to "No I would never do that". How can you > > > bring > > > up oil a mineral resource and say lets not talk about that, sounds > like > >we > > > are only talking about the bad guys outside of the US. You know the > >world > > > isn't so sure were not the bad guys any more. Can't say I dont > >understand > > > why, If we are going to banter about the bad guys how about Congrees > and > > > the > > > new mining bill. I'm not in favor of that one and why are we putting > >off > > > the vote, those at the NM Mineral Symposium last week say that the > >DEMO' > > > are putting it off till they get in power and can ride it on in. Kind > >of > > > like Bill's last acts as Prez. I don't think the Demos are worse than > >the > > > repb but I don't think they are for the people any more either. I am > >more > > > concerned about what is going on here in the US with my human rights > >than > > > I > > > am about Burma although I don't think killing people and overriding > >their > > > human rights is acceptable anywhere. Just I can't do anything about > it > > > there and I am still delusional enough to think I might be able to do > > > something about it here. Steve > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Alan Goldstein" > > > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:04 PM > > > Subject: [Rockhounds] Gems/Minerals and Human Rights > > > > > > > > > > The Larson's send out a bi-monthly e-newsletter called "Mineral > News" > > > not > > > > to be confused with the more established paper publication. They > > > > frequently cover gem purchasing in Myanmar (Burma), a country where > a > > > > couple of military men use the country's wealth for their personal > > > > benefit - to the detriment of their people and environment. I am > >curious > > > > where members of this listserve stand on purchasing gem rough and > > > mineral > > > > specimens from countries run by dictators who use the wealth like > >those > > > in > > > > Burma, especially where those who benefit use the income to buy > >weapons > > > > and/or would want to ultimately kill the very people who buy their > > > > specimens if they had a chance. > > > > > > > > I realize that politcal leaders come and go. Some people might lump > > > China > > > > and Myanmar in the same category because they personally abhor a > > > country's > > > > leader. However, considering what has been done with diamonds from > > > certain > > > > African countries, I am not aware of any spillover from other gems / > > > > minerals that might cause similar misery. Some might also say, well > >what > > > > about oil sales? For the purposes of this thread, let's stick to > > > minerals > > > > and gemstones. > > > > > > > > Me? I am not particularly interested gemstones and my personal hobby > > > > budget doesn't allow for a lot of purchases anyway. I certainly > >wouldn't > > > > knowingly purchase a mineral specimen that would allow the Taliban > or > >Al > > > > Quaeda to buy weapons, but I'm privvy to the behind-the-scenes > dealing > > > to > > > > make a wise choice. (With the notible exception of Dudley Blauwet's > > > > travellogues in the Pakistan - Afghanistan that I certainly enjoy. > It > > > > sound like he's dealing with good people.) > > > > > > > > I don't want to discussion to cause any "flame wars" because people > >have > > > > political interests across the spectrum, but how do you feel about > it? > > > > > > > > Alan > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >J Bryan Kramer > >North Florida, USA > >photos at: > >http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > >--- > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >Subscription Services: > >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Mon Nov 19 12:51:48 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Mon Nov 19 12:52:09 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] INVISIBLE GERMS and Cutting Oils - Oxalic acid toxicity in humans..causes auto-immune disease In-Reply-To: <8C9F9007010EBB2-15AC-12C8@webmail-dd15.sysops.aol.com> References: <368968.29139.qm@web45409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <8C9F9007010EBB2-15AC-12C8@webmail-dd15.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Maybe a psychiatric group. BK On Nov 19, 2007 3:18 PM, wrote: > This e mail should have been sent to a medical group - > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Mon Nov 19 13:27:42 2007 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Mon Nov 19 13:27:56 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Morocco (LONG) Message-ID: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be> Hi all, I owe you the story of a trip we made through Morocco, from 18 to 30 October 2007. The trip was organized by one of our club members. Our target was a mineralogical exploration tour through the southern part of Morocco, the region southeast of Marrakech/Ouarzazate. We visited - The manganese mine of Imini : splendid specimens of pyrolusite crystals and other manganese minerals. Very primitive manual exploitation. The dust in this mine has about the same effect as graphite : it takes days before you get rid of the dirt. Some miners even helped us getting out good specimens. - We did NOT go to Bou Azzer (too long detour from our scheduled route, no good own finds to be expected). But if we did not go to Bou Azzer, Bou Azzer came to us (in the form of numerous local mineral dealers who offered stuff from there). - We visited the Kashba of Ait-Benhaddou, which is one of the most pittoresque places I could ever imagine ! - One day was devoted to mineral digging in Bou Skour, famous locality for lead- and copper minerals. Beautiful malachite and azurite crystals, galenite etc. - We passed the silver mines of Imiter, but it is impossible for normal human beings to enter there. absolutely no trespassing - The fluorite mine of Lhamda provided us with lots of perfect fluorite cubes up to 5 cm, that were available in quantities of tons of nicely pre-trimmed specimens. Just a little formatting and making your choice was the only work to do. - In the neighborhood of Merzouga we visited, of course, the sand dune desert of Erg Chebbi. We left an hour before sunrise on the back of a row of dromedaries to climb on a 300 m high sand dune to observe sunrise. The colors and shades of the sand change every minute in a real kaleidoscope of colors. Unbelievable views ! On our way to our observation spot we observed numerous meteors in the sky, sometimes several in a minute. On the other hand sitting on the back of a dromedary demands some concentration to avoid a fall (which would not be that bad in the sand after all). - Later that day we went rockhounding in a barite mine southeast of Merzouga, were we found splendid barite crystals. We saw some crystals of several cm in the walls, but these were hard to get out undamaged. The mining techniques in the mine were again almost medieval. - From Merzouga we drove up to Midelt where we went to the vanadinite localities around Mi Bladen. Local miners dig holes here, with a depth from a few to almost 10 m, where they recover vanadinite crystals. A bit further we visited a quarry/mine, and recovered many beautiful cerussite crystals. Some walls are so unstable that we had to leave the best stuff in place for safety reasons. It's the kind of rock where you can cause a collapse of several tons of rock by removing a few cubic cm ! Again a few km further we visited an interesting site on a industrial archeological point of view : the lead mines of Aouli. - Then we drove over the pass to Bouiouzane in the middle of the High Atlas Mountains, where very sharp magnetite crystals (and epidote, titanite etc.) were found abundantly. At a height of about 2700 m above sea level it was pretty cold out there. We spent the night in the house of a very hospitable Berber family (in fact all Berbers are very friendly and hospitable) in Imilchil, a village without any trace of modern comfort (electricity, tap water etc.). In fact they just got an electric power line recently, but it is not yet connected, and the houses are not prepared for it anyway. - The day after that we drove to a mineral locality in the neighborhood of Tilmi, which was a hectic journey. Melting snow was so abundant at the end of the afternoon that we had to go back early. Nevertheless we found there some nice epidotes and magnetites. - After a night in Azilal we visited the famous Ouzoud waterfalls. Those are certainly not the biggest, but IMHO the most elegant of all waterfalls I have ever seen. - And then it was time to go back to Marrakech to take the plane back home (via Madrid). Some general thoughts and feelings : - In general Moroccan/Berber people are very friendly and hospitable. We were always received and treated as genuine friends. - Moroccan food is unbelievably good. I'm a very difficult person is as far as food is concerned, and I found every single dish that we had in those weeks just delicious, even in the smallest villages, miles away from civilization. - There are hundreds of mineral dealers, in the neighborhood of Midelt alone. In the whole region there must be thousands. With such a competition we had expected low prices close to the source, but we experienced quite the opposite. Mostly prices were ways too high, in many cases even higher than what we pay here at European shows. Bargaining decreased the price sometimes with a factor of 2 to even 5 to (rarely) 10, but even than real good deals were rare, except for less well known stuff, such as epidote, magnetite, apatite crystals etc. Even in the mines miners offered sometimes specimens they had found for prices that were beyond any imagination. - Falsifications and "mineralogical pieces of art" are ubiquitous, and the creativity of their makers is beyond any imagination. We have seen geodes in which calcite, quartz, cerussite, anglesite and galenite were present. It was a pity that did not add also some malachite and azurite as well to get a complete selection of Moroccan minerals on one specimen :>) We have seen at a certain moment two halves of the same geode that were treated in a different way. Many dealers along the roads have tons of rocks piled and tossed on each other, so that every single piece is damaged at all sides. - Some places, such as e.g. the vanadinite fields of Mi Bladen, are not safe if you are not accompanied by locals. We have actually met some people with not so positive intentions, backing off as soon as they knew that we had local people with us. But that situation is more exception then rule. - It's very hard to find any real rarities. Local miners and mineral diggers do not recognize them, and are even not interested, as they do not think there is a market for it. Even at dealers you will see rarities only very sparsely, if any. - Nature is splendid in the country. A dream for any photographer (I took about 3500 photos, good for nearly 20 Gbytes). I will need weeks to Photoshop them. - The High Atlas is a very poor region : we have seen children of less than 6 years old traveling with even smaller children with a flock of sheep. They have nearly no schools, and medical care is virtually non-existent locally. The other regions we visited are far better off anyway. - Some roads are in a terrible condition. The road from Midelt to Imilchil e.g. consists in part of a river bed. On the other hand the situation is improving quickly. Many new roads are under construction nowadays. - Morocco is developing at a very high speed, and you can see new commercial initiatives everywhere. Due to the copper prices, one after another copper mine is re-opened. - We owe our sincere thanks to our 3 Moroccan guide/drivers (Mohammed, Brahim and Mbarak) and to the organizer of the trip, Paul Vandevelde. After all, we enjoyed our trip to Morocco very much, we saw a lot, we collected a lot, and we learned a lot. it was quite enriching. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Mon Nov 19 13:52:33 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Mon Nov 19 13:52:55 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Morocco (LONG) In-Reply-To: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <473491750013FEC4@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Fascinating report, Rik. Thank you! Aloha, Kitty At 11:27 AM 11/19/2007, you wrote: >Hi all, >I owe you the story of a trip we made through Morocco, from 18 to 30 >October 2007. From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Nov 19 16:30:03 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Nov 19 16:30:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mobile Jewelry Gem & Mineral Show Message-ID: The 13th Annual Mobile Jewelry Gem & Mineral Show is being held November 23-25 at the Gulf State Fairgrounds in Mobile, Alabama. 30 dealers with a variety of geological and paleontological wares, lapidary demonstrations, a gem dig, and a sluice for kids of all ages. Door prizes and a terrific raffle. Friday 2-7 PM Saturday 9 AM - 6 PM Sunday 10 AM - 5 PM Admission is only $3.00 or $2.00 with a coupon (Children under 12 FREE with adult) Ya'll come! Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate.? Join in. www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Nov 19 17:03:40 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Nov 19 17:05:10 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Morocco (LONG) References: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <009801c82b11$3807c1d0$0200a8c0@Notebook> Excellent trip report Rik! Thanks - John Siebel As I sit here watching the snow pile up in northern Idaho. From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Nov 19 17:23:57 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Nov 19 17:24:02 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Morocco (LONG) In-Reply-To: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: Absolutely amazing! Thank you for sharing this trip with us. I would very much like to see some of your pictures when you have time to post them. Glenn > From: rik.dillen@skynet.be> > Hi all,> > > > I owe you the story of a trip we made through Morocco, from 18 to 30 October 2007.> _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Mon Nov 19 19:09:34 2007 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Mon Nov 19 19:07:14 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Blood specimens References: <200711200203.lAK23LE4032690@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <028f01c82b22$c77316b0$6901a8c0@rock3> One patrician east coast academic I read commented that the only thing worse than being a country exploited by a colonial power was to be one that was not exploited by a colonial power. How much has Germany and Japan suffered by loosing a war to the Americans? So if we stop buying specimens and rubies from Burma, will the people be better off or worse off. We will, each of us, have to make up our own minds about that. If western dealers stop going to Burma to buy rubies and specimens, those rubies and specimens will be smuggled across the border into Thailand and sold there to western dealers as being from what ever locality the western dealers want them to be from. No one has to eat gems and minerals. But what about oil. If we don't buy oil from a particular country because we don't like their politics or the way they treat their people, will that hurt the people who run that country? Certainly not tillothers will also not buy their oil. Suppose instead of oil they are the only source of a drug that will keep you alive. To buy or not buy, that is the question. There are no easy answers. Rock From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Nov 19 19:38:31 2007 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Nov 19 19:37:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Petoskey rough wanted References: <6FEB2357-9B67-4A72-AE61-3C8F60409B52@mc.net> <20071109005458.6391F1CC35@io.frii.com> <20071110164032.A0A3F6786C@mail.frii.com> <200711130235.lAD2ZEKX014142@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <20071119015451.0E27C6781F@mail.frii.com> Message-ID: <004201c82b26$d2073b20$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I have a 100 lb boulder of a single Prismatophyllum colony I collected at a construction dump in the early 1980's. It is from my area (Louisville), not Petoskey and the overall color is buff, not gray. But I'll be darned if I'll ship it to Washington! In fact, I wouldn't want to ship it anywhere. I don't own a suitable box. My second largest colony is probably 30 pounds. The largest I've seen (where I work) is about 11 feet wide. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:51 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Petoskey rough wanted > I'm interested in a large piece of Petoskey rough to make a sphere. > Contact me off list. > > Jerry > WA > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: > 269.16.0/1137 - Release Date: 11/18/07 5:15 PM > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Alpen at aol.com Mon Nov 19 20:00:34 2007 From: Alpen at aol.com (Alpen@aol.com) Date: Mon Nov 19 20:00:57 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Trip to Morocco (LONG) Message-ID: Great report Rik. I've been in that area, though not for rockhounding. I wish I had stayed longer so I could have done some poking around. I agree with your assessment of the Berber people. They are usually very gracious and friendly. Eric In a message dated 11/19/2007 7:03:58 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com writes: Message: 15 Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:27:42 +0100 From: "Rik Dillen" Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Morocco (LONG) To: "Rockhounds" ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Nov 19 20:52:08 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Nov 19 20:39:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mobile Jewelry Gem & Mineral Show References: Message-ID: <474264B9.7AE@Tomaszewski.net> Glenn, How does your sluice work in a show setting? How are you feeding/salting it? That sounds like an interesting idea for a show. Can you tell us more about it? Kreigh Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > The 13th Annual Mobile Jewelry Gem & Mineral Show is being held November 23-25 at the Gulf State Fairgrounds in Mobile, Alabama. > > 30 dealers with a variety of geological and paleontological wares, lapidary demonstrations, a gem dig, and a sluice for kids of all ages. > > Door prizes and a terrific raffle. > > Friday 2-7 PM > > Saturday 9 AM - 6 PM > > Sunday 10 AM - 5 PM > > Admission is only $3.00 or $2.00 with a coupon (Children under 12 FREE with adult) > > Ya'll come! > Glenn > _________________________________________________________________ > Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate.? Join in. > www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Nov 19 21:49:17 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Nov 19 21:49:20 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Mobile Jewelry Gem & Mineral Show In-Reply-To: <474264B9.7AE@Tomaszewski.net> References: <474264B9.7AE@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: We have a water hose to feed water at the top and a drain at the lower end just like all I've seen. Screens are provided. The sluice box is so realistic it even leaks muddy water. What fun! Bags of salted North Carolina mined dirt are for sale for a little over our cost. The sluice is probably THE hot item for the youngsters and many oldsters. We also salt the sandy gem dig at regular intervals with polished stones, minerals, and fossils. Our Juniors gladly volunteer to help with these exhibits. Glenn > From: Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> > Glenn,> > How does your sluice work in a show setting? How are you feeding/salting> it? That sounds like an interesting idea for a show. Can you tell us> more about it?> > Kreigh> > > > > Glenn Wimpee wrote:> > > > The 13th Annual Mobile Jewelry Gem & Mineral Show is being held November 23-25 at the Gulf State Fairgrounds in Mobile, Alabama.> > > > 30 dealers with a variety of geological and paleontological wares, lapidary demonstrations, a gem dig, and a sluice for kids of all ages.> > > > Door prizes and a terrific raffle.> > > > Friday 2-7 PM> > > > Saturday 9 AM - 6 PM> > > > Sunday 10 AM - 5 PM> > > > Admission is only $3.00 or $2.00 with a coupon (Children under 12 FREE with adult)> > > > Ya'll come!> > Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate.? Join in. www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Mon Nov 19 23:22:53 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Nov 19 23:23:04 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dismal Swamp Idaho imminent closure In-Reply-To: <20071118204609.cekmq255sgc4owwg@mail.ucla.edu> References: <20071118204609.cekmq255sgc4owwg@mail.ucla.edu> Message-ID: <200711200723.lAK7N1ad028360@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Dismal Swamp, a long-time favorite Idaho collecting area, is in danger of being gated from June 1 to Oct 1 every year, effectively eliminating access to rockhounds. Comments are due Thanksgiving Day (that's right). My comments appear below the letter. I have a copy of the proposed action in MS Word if anyone is interested. This is a plain case of someone who doesn't know what they are doing seeing a "problem area" and attempting to "fix" it with the cheapest and fastest solution they can think of. The problem is, that solution effectively eliminates rockhounding in this extremely popular dig site and does nothing to relieve perceived problems with endangered bull trout spawning habitat in Buck Creek. Here is the letter from the Boise NF: >Dear Interested Participant: > >Enclosed is the proposed action for the Lostman/Buck Creeks >Watershed Improvement Project located on the Mountain Home Ranger >District of the Boise National Forest. This letter is to invite your >comments on the project. > >The objective of the project is to improve watershed processes and >fish habitat in the Lostman Creek and Buck Creek watersheds by >removing stream impacts from the road system and unregulated smoky >quartz exploration. The proposed action is to change 24.5 miles of >road and 3.1 miles of trail from a seasonal motorized restriction to >a year-round closure for all motorized use, seasonally close 9.0 >mile of road to all motorized use, treat 24.5 miles of road for >long-term reduction in erosion, remove 23 road/stream crossings >(three to provide increased fish passage), and limit public access >to the Dismal Swamp Area. > >The public is invited to comment on the proposed action. Those who >submit timely comments will be eligible to appeal the decision >pursuant to the 36 CFR 215 regulations and the April 24, 2006 order >issued by the U.S. District Court for the District of Montana in >Case No. CV 03-119-M-DWM. The opportunity to comment ends 30 days >following publication of this legal notice. Each individual or >representative from each organization that provides comments or >otherwise expresses interest in the project must either sign the >comments or otherwise verify identity in order to attain appeal >eligibility. Comments received in response to this request will be >available for public inspection and will be released in their >entirety if requested pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act. > >Written comments must be submitted to me at the Mountain Home Ranger >District, 2180 American Legion Blvd, Mountain Home, ID 83647. The >office business hours for those submitting hand-delivered comments >are from 7:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m., Monday through Friday, excluding holidays. > >Those wishing to submit oral comments may provide them to me during >normal business hours via telephone at (208)587-7961, or in person. >Electronic comments must be submitted in a format such as an email >message, plain text (.txt), rich text format (.rtf), or Word (.doc) >to comments-intermtn-boise-mtn-home@fs.fed.us. In cases where no >identifiable name is attached to a comment, a verification of >identity will be required for appeal eligibility. If using an >electronic message, a scanned signature is one way to provide >verification. It is the responsibility of persons providing comments >to submit them by the close of the comment period. Individuals and >organizations wishing to be eligible to appeal must meet the >information requirements of 36 CFR 215.6. > >If you have questions about this project, please contact Clayton >Nalder at (208) 587-7961. Thank you for your continued interest in >natural resource management activities on the Mountain Home Ranger District. > >Sincerely, > > >LARRY TRIPP >District Ranger > >Enclosure (1) My comments: >I am a practicing fisheries biologist who has specialized in habitat >restoration and life cycle dynamics of salmonid populations for the >past 20 years, and practices in Idaho. I am writing these comments >as both a practicing fisheries biologist and an avid recreational >rockhound. The proposal to limit public access to Dismal Swamp is a >misguided attempt to limit damage to potential bull trout habitat >and does not address the main issues of sedimentation in bull trout >spawning habitat. > >Dismal Swamp is an important area for recreational rockhounds that >has been dug for its quality smoky quartz and topaz crystals for >more than the 20 years stated in the proposed action. I am sure >rockhounding was occurring in the area in the 1940s and continually >to the present. It appears to me as if the entire swamp was placer >mined before then, perhaps for gold, as the stream gravels are too >well sorted in the upland areas as one digs into the subsoil to have >been naturally deposited. It has since recovered to a >natural-looking state on its own, with no help from the Forest >Service. The area is extremely popular with rockhounds because this >is a unique resource that I am not aware is available anywhere else >in the Pacific Northwest outside of Montana. The closest quartz >crystals that are commonly available to rockhounds occur at Crystal >Park, MT. I suggest that the persons responsible for this proposed >action discuss the extremely well-managed recreational digging area >there with the appropriate USFS personnel in MT if they need an idea >of how to properly manage a popular quartz crystal digging area. > >There are several inaccuracies in the description of the proposed >action that seem to be used to justify the proposed road closure. >Recreational rockhounding is an allowed use on every national forest >and BLM owned land in the entire country. Recreationists do not need >a permit nor do they need to file a plan of operation to dig small >quantities of minerals for personal use. Therefore the implication >that the digging for personal use that occurs is illegal is false. >It is the Forest Services' responsibility to see that resource >damage does not take place from recreational activities, not the >users'. This applies to all recreational uses, not just rockhounds. >One does not need a permit to disturb the ground when digging a >temporary pit toilet where such uses are permitted, for example. > >Sedimentation that could possibly effect bull trout habitat is most >likely to occur in the immediate area of Dismal Swamp, and no >documentation is given that bull trout are even present or ever were >present in this very small, unnamed tributary to Buck Creek. The >swamp is a headwater area above a long reach of extremely steep >cascades and rapids (approximately 15% gradient) that typically >would block adult bull trout movement to or from the headwaters, >where the only likely spawning habitat would be located. In my >experience as a fisheries biologist who has specialized in habitat >restoration and life cycle dynamics of salmonid populations for the >past 20 years, and practices in Idaho, I would not expect bull trout >to be present in this stream even if it was in a pristine condition. >I would also doubt very much that sediment from the recreational >digging of smoky quartz in the swamp area would effect likely >potential bull trout spawning habitat 1.5 miles downstream in Buck >Creek (not one mile as stated in the proposal) in any perceptible way. > >Furthermore, sedimentation levels in batholithic geology are >naturally very high. The proposed project area is in the Atlanta >Lobe of the Idaho batholith, and as your geologist could tell you, >the impacts to spawning habitat that you perceive 1.5 miles >downstream in Buck Creek are more likely caused by naturally high >sedimentation rates in this extremely erosible batholith than >streambank disturbing activities that are occurring 1.5 miles >upstream of a very steep gradient reach in the headwaters of a small >tributary. I cannot conceive of a mechanism whereby large quantities >of sediment would be delivered from Dismal Swamp to the mainstem of >Buck Creek on even an intermittent basis, except possibly an >exceedingly rare rain-on-snow event. > >The research showing road related impacts to habitat above certain >densities of roads per square mile is irrelevant to the proposed >action. Closing the road to Dismal Swamp to vehicle use from 6/1 to >10/1 would not change the road density in the watershed. I see no >proposal to decommission any roads in the watershed so I assume the >road density would remain unchanged. Thus no perceptible >improvements to bull trout habitat would be expected to occur from >seasonal or even permanent road closures. > >This is case of "it looks bad so let's fix it" (ref the photo in the >documentation) but in reality, rockhounding activities are likely >not effecting the target endangered species in any meaningful way, >and the "fix" allows sedimentation to continue to occur for tens of >years in the immediate Dismal Swamp area from diggings that will not >typically cease delivering sediment to the stream channel merely >because the area is no longer being disturbed. If the Boise NF wants >to limit damage to riparian areas in this unnamed tributary from >recreational rockhounding, they should find a way to manage the >activity as to affect the recovery of the riparian area, not merely >close the road for the summer and expect that to solve the perceived >problem. I suggest you contact the managers of Crystal Park for a >management method that accommodates endangered species and >recreational users of your forest instead of throwing up a gate and >assuming that the problem will fix itself: > >http://www.fs.fed.us/geology/crystal_park.html Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From rik.dillen at skynet.be Tue Nov 20 09:25:18 2007 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Tue Nov 20 09:25:38 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Morocco (LONG) In-Reply-To: <473491750013FEC4@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) References: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be> <473491750013FEC4@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Message-ID: <000501c82b9a$52991060$f7cb3120$@dillen@skynet.be> Kitty, Bill, John, Glenn, Eric et al., Thank you for the fan mail, guys. It was my pleasure... Grts, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kitty & Bill Heacox Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:53 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Trip to Morocco (LONG) Fascinating report, Rik. Thank you! Aloha, Kitty At 11:27 AM 11/19/2007, you wrote: >Hi all, >I owe you the story of a trip we made through Morocco, from 18 to 30 >October 2007. From kadok at infowest.com Tue Nov 20 09:42:29 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Nov 20 09:42:13 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Again alive and kicking... In-Reply-To: <003301c82a18$8a2bff20$9e83fd60$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <003301c82a18$8a2bff20$9e83fd60$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <006601c82b9c$b8eab060$0200a8c0@kadok> Many thanks for keeping us all posted, Rik! We miss Axel and are loooking forward to having fully recovered and back online before too long! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Rik Dillen Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 12:24 PM To: Rockhounds Subject: [Rockhounds] Again alive and kicking... Dear all, I just came back from a visit to Axel in hospital. His body seems a bit tired (of course), but his voice is vivid as before. that is for me the signal that he is really OK. It is quite probable that he will be released from the hospital and return home already by next Tuesday or Wednesday, which is remarkable after such an important surgery. He asked me to greet all of you, and to thank you for caring so much about him. He was very touched by all the reactions he got from all over the world. Please take into account that, although he will be home soon, his complete revalidation will take some time, and it might take a while before he can reply to all the e-mail messages he got. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kadok at infowest.com Tue Nov 20 10:13:25 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Nov 20 10:13:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Morocco (LONG) In-Reply-To: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <006c01c82ba1$0b34fc50$0200a8c0@kadok> Thanks, Rik! This sound like the sort of trip all rockhounds dream about making, and few succeed. Margaret Hi all, I owe you the story of a trip we made through Morocco, from 18 to 30 October 2007. The trip was organized by one of our club members. Our target was a mineralogical exploration tour through the southern part of Morocco, the region southeast of Marrakech/Ouarzazate. We visited - The manganese mine of Imini : splendid specimens of pyrolusite crystals and other manganese minerals. Very primitive manual exploitation. The dust in this mine has about the same effect as graphite : it takes days before you get rid of the dirt. Some miners even helped us getting out good specimens. - We did NOT go to Bou Azzer (too long detour from our scheduled route, no good own finds to be expected). But if we did not go to Bou Azzer, Bou Azzer came to us (in the form of numerous local mineral dealers who offered stuff from there). - We visited the Kashba of Ait-Benhaddou, which is one of the most pittoresque places I could ever imagine ! - One day was devoted to mineral digging in Bou Skour, famous locality for lead- and copper minerals. Beautiful malachite and azurite crystals, galenite etc. - We passed the silver mines of Imiter, but it is impossible for normal human beings to enter there. absolutely no trespassing - The fluorite mine of Lhamda provided us with lots of perfect fluorite cubes up to 5 cm, that were available in quantities of tons of nicely pre-trimmed specimens. Just a little formatting and making your choice was the only work to do. - In the neighborhood of Merzouga we visited, of course, the sand dune desert of Erg Chebbi. We left an hour before sunrise on the back of a row of dromedaries to climb on a 300 m high sand dune to observe sunrise. The colors and shades of the sand change every minute in a real kaleidoscope of colors. Unbelievable views ! On our way to our observation spot we observed numerous meteors in the sky, sometimes several in a minute. On the other hand sitting on the back of a dromedary demands some concentration to avoid a fall (which would not be that bad in the sand after all). - Later that day we went rockhounding in a barite mine southeast of Merzouga, were we found splendid barite crystals. We saw some crystals of several cm in the walls, but these were hard to get out undamaged. The mining techniques in the mine were again almost medieval. - From Merzouga we drove up to Midelt where we went to the vanadinite localities around Mi Bladen. Local miners dig holes here, with a depth from a few to almost 10 m, where they recover vanadinite crystals. A bit further we visited a quarry/mine, and recovered many beautiful cerussite crystals. Some walls are so unstable that we had to leave the best stuff in place for safety reasons. It's the kind of rock where you can cause a collapse of several tons of rock by removing a few cubic cm ! Again a few km further we visited an interesting site on a industrial archeological point of view : the lead mines of Aouli. - Then we drove over the pass to Bouiouzane in the middle of the High Atlas Mountains, where very sharp magnetite crystals (and epidote, titanite etc.) were found abundantly. At a height of about 2700 m above sea level it was pretty cold out there. We spent the night in the house of a very hospitable Berber family (in fact all Berbers are very friendly and hospitable) in Imilchil, a village without any trace of modern comfort (electricity, tap water etc.). In fact they just got an electric power line recently, but it is not yet connected, and the houses are not prepared for it anyway. - The day after that we drove to a mineral locality in the neighborhood of Tilmi, which was a hectic journey. Melting snow was so abundant at the end of the afternoon that we had to go back early. Nevertheless we found there some nice epidotes and magnetites. - After a night in Azilal we visited the famous Ouzoud waterfalls. Those are certainly not the biggest, but IMHO the most elegant of all waterfalls I have ever seen. - And then it was time to go back to Marrakech to take the plane back home (via Madrid). Some general thoughts and feelings : - In general Moroccan/Berber people are very friendly and hospitable. We were always received and treated as genuine friends. - Moroccan food is unbelievably good. I'm a very difficult person is as far as food is concerned, and I found every single dish that we had in those weeks just delicious, even in the smallest villages, miles away from civilization. - There are hundreds of mineral dealers, in the neighborhood of Midelt alone. In the whole region there must be thousands. With such a competition we had expected low prices close to the source, but we experienced quite the opposite. Mostly prices were ways too high, in many cases even higher than what we pay here at European shows. Bargaining decreased the price sometimes with a factor of 2 to even 5 to (rarely) 10, but even than real good deals were rare, except for less well known stuff, such as epidote, magnetite, apatite crystals etc. Even in the mines miners offered sometimes specimens they had found for prices that were beyond any imagination. - Falsifications and "mineralogical pieces of art" are ubiquitous, and the creativity of their makers is beyond any imagination. We have seen geodes in which calcite, quartz, cerussite, anglesite and galenite were present. It was a pity that did not add also some malachite and azurite as well to get a complete selection of Moroccan minerals on one specimen :>) We have seen at a certain moment two halves of the same geode that were treated in a different way. Many dealers along the roads have tons of rocks piled and tossed on each other, so that every single piece is damaged at all sides. - Some places, such as e.g. the vanadinite fields of Mi Bladen, are not safe if you are not accompanied by locals. We have actually met some people with not so positive intentions, backing off as soon as they knew that we had local people with us. But that situation is more exception then rule. - It's very hard to find any real rarities. Local miners and mineral diggers do not recognize them, and are even not interested, as they do not think there is a market for it. Even at dealers you will see rarities only very sparsely, if any. - Nature is splendid in the country. A dream for any photographer (I took about 3500 photos, good for nearly 20 Gbytes). I will need weeks to Photoshop them. - The High Atlas is a very poor region : we have seen children of less than 6 years old traveling with even smaller children with a flock of sheep. They have nearly no schools, and medical care is virtually non-existent locally. The other regions we visited are far better off anyway. - Some roads are in a terrible condition. The road from Midelt to Imilchil e.g. consists in part of a river bed. On the other hand the situation is improving quickly. Many new roads are under construction nowadays. - Morocco is developing at a very high speed, and you can see new commercial initiatives everywhere. Due to the copper prices, one after another copper mine is re-opened. - We owe our sincere thanks to our 3 Moroccan guide/drivers (Mohammed, Brahim and Mbarak) and to the organizer of the trip, Paul Vandevelde. After all, we enjoyed our trip to Morocco very much, we saw a lot, we collected a lot, and we learned a lot. it was quite enriching. Greetings, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Nov 20 10:46:33 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Nov 20 10:46:40 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone Farewell Progress Report In-Reply-To: <006c01c82ba1$0b34fc50$0200a8c0@kadok> References: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be> <006c01c82ba1$0b34fc50$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <012701c82ba5$acd15fa0$6b01a8c0@okapi> Well, I'm about 100 or so pages through "Yellowstone Farewell". Content: good Editing: abysmal. These folks should have spent some money on a good editor. I've finally got my brain to filter out the italics they use whenever they seem to think something is a little bit important. Or different. Or... Who knows, maybe they accidentally bought 10,000 pieces of italic font and they felt compelled to use 'em. There's a good in there...but it is struggling tooth and nail to get out. Gary PS. Oh yes, I DID like what happened to the reporter. Hah! Teach THAT bozo to smoke, eh? From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Nov 20 10:55:06 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 20 10:55:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Trip to Morocco (LONG) In-Reply-To: <000501c82b9a$52991060$f7cb3120$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be><473491750013FEC4@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com> (addedby postmaster@bouncemessage.net) <000501c82b9a$52991060$f7cb3120$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <005e01c82ba6$de248540$6401a8c0@AxelHP> There, now you know how it feels, Rik ;-))) Indeed outstanding report which I'll be reading in Dutch soon I guess... Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Rik Dillen > Verzonden: dinsdag 20 november 2007 18:25 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Trip to Morocco (LONG) > > Kitty, Bill, John, Glenn, Eric et al., > > Thank you for the fan mail, guys. It was my pleasure... > Grts, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail > rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > >>> Belgian minerals > >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) > postage stamp ! > >>> Exchange list > > MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Kitty & Bill Heacox > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 10:53 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Trip to Morocco (LONG) > > Fascinating report, Rik. Thank you! > Aloha, Kitty > > At 11:27 AM 11/19/2007, you wrote: > >Hi all, > >I owe you the story of a trip we made through Morocco, from 18 to 30 > >October 2007. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Tue Nov 20 11:02:32 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Tue Nov 20 11:02:48 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! In-Reply-To: <005e01c82ba6$de248540$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be> <473491750013FEC4@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com> <000501c82b9a$52991060$f7cb3120$@dillen@skynet.be> <005e01c82ba6$de248540$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <473E5FB00005C292@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Yay! Welcome back, Axel! :-D :-D :-D Aloha nui loa, Kitty & Bill At 08:55 AM 11/20/2007, you wrote: >There, now you know how it feels, Rik ;-))) > >Indeed outstanding report which I'll be reading in Dutch soon I guess... > >Cheers >Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Nov 20 11:12:47 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 20 11:12:41 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! In-Reply-To: <473E5FB00005C292@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) References: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be><473491750013FEC4@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com><000501c82b9a$52991060$f7cb3120$@dillen@skynet.be><005e01c82ba6$de248540$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <473E5FB00005C292@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) Message-ID: <009301c82ba9$563413a0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Now, you sound happy ;-P Glad to be back! All the way soon, I hope! Hughug (ouch, sternum hurts.... LOL) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Kitty & > Bill Heacox > Verzonden: dinsdag 20 november 2007 20:03 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! > > Yay! Welcome back, Axel! :-D :-D :-D > > Aloha nui loa, Kitty & Bill > > > > At 08:55 AM 11/20/2007, you wrote: > >There, now you know how it feels, Rik ;-))) > > > >Indeed outstanding report which I'll be reading in Dutch > soon I guess... > > > >Cheers > >Axel > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From hammerron at yahoo.com Tue Nov 20 12:29:00 2007 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Tue Nov 20 12:29:03 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! Message-ID: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Yay !!!! ----- Original Message ---- From: Axel Emmermann To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:12:47 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! Now, you sound happy ;-P Glad to be back! All the way soon, I hope! Hughug (ouch, sternum hurts.... LOL) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Kitty & > Bill Heacox > Verzonden: dinsdag 20 november 2007 20:03 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! > > Yay! Welcome back, Axel! :-D :-D :-D > > Aloha nui loa, Kitty & Bill > > > > At 08:55 AM 11/20/2007, you wrote: > >There, now you know how it feels, Rik ;-))) > > > >Indeed outstanding report which I'll be reading in Dutch > soon I guess... > > > >Cheers > >Axel > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Tue Nov 20 13:18:51 2007 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Tue Nov 20 13:18:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Texas Message-ID: <632965.93346.qm@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have searched the Internet for rock shops in southern TX and came up with only one. We are also looking for any clubs in the Rio Grande Valley. I have contacted the TX Federation and was given an email address that is obsolete or incorrect. Bob's site shows a club in McAllen but upon contacting the museum and chamber, they know nothing about a lapidary club. Does anyone out there have information on this area? We will be going down in Jan and would like to go rock hunting. Thanks for all your help. June ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Nov 20 13:29:13 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Nov 20 13:29:16 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Texas In-Reply-To: <632965.93346.qm@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <632965.93346.qm@web35609.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm fairly sure there was a rock shop in Marfa and it seems like one in the Terlingua area but that was quite awhile ago. 7 or 8 years anyway. Not much help. BK On Nov 20, 2007 4:18 PM, June Young wrote: > I have searched the Internet for rock shops in southern TX and came up > with only one. We are also looking for any clubs in the Rio Grande Valley. > I have contacted the TX Federation and was given an email address that is > obsolete or incorrect. Bob's site shows a club in McAllen but upon > contacting the museum and chamber, they know nothing about a lapidary club. > Does anyone out there have information on this area? We will be going down > in Jan and would like to go rock hunting. > Thanks for all your help. > June > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Nov 20 14:47:54 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 20 14:47:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! In-Reply-To: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00bd01c82bc7$63c41420$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Indeed! Rejoi c e Hihi, just kidding ;-))) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens The Hammer > Verzonden: dinsdag 20 november 2007 21:29 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com:A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! > > Yay !!!! > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Axel Emmermann > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:12:47 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! > > > Now, you sound happy ;-P > > Glad to be back! All the way soon, I hope! > > Hughug (ouch, sternum hurts.... LOL) > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Kitty & Bill > > Heacox > > Verzonden: dinsdag 20 november 2007 20:03 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! > > > > Yay! Welcome back, Axel! :-D :-D :-D > > > > Aloha nui loa, Kitty & Bill > > > > > > > > At 08:55 AM 11/20/2007, you wrote: > > >There, now you know how it feels, Rik ;-))) > > > > > >Indeed outstanding report which I'll be reading in Dutch > > soon I guess... > > > > > >Cheers > > >Axel > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Nov 20 14:54:11 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Nov 20 14:54:11 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! In-Reply-To: <00bd01c82bc7$63c41420$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <00bd01c82bc7$63c41420$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <018601c82bc8$44bc64f0$6b01a8c0@okapi> So, Axel, they give you an official "zipper club" membership card? Welcome back... GcB From ajs at frii.com Tue Nov 20 18:12:05 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Tue Nov 20 18:12:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone Farewell Progress Report In-Reply-To: <012701c82ba5$acd15fa0$6b01a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <20071121021205.DC80E1CC35@io.frii.com> > I've finally got my brain to filter out the italics they use whenever > they seem to think something is a little bit important. Ah, right, that oddity. I must have trained my mind the same way, 'cause after finishing the book, I didn't even remember it as being an issue. :-) I hope you enjoy the rest (more). Alan Silverstein From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Nov 20 19:09:21 2007 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Nov 20 19:09:31 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT..Remarkable recovery for Axel -- three cheers Message-ID: <003001c82beb$eb11f270$eef8f604@TheBlackAdder> Axel, and the list, folks, That Axel is already answering emails is a testament to his strong constitution and the skill of his doctors. It was 6 weeks after my valve replacement that I was back home answering emails. My coronary arteries were very clean, so bypass was not needed, but the aortic valve was only opening 3mm. 20+mm is normal I had my aortic valve replaced 15 Feb. of this year, had a near psychotic reaction to the morphine and anaesthetic, so my arms were restrained with the permission of my wife. My struggling against them pulled the wire sutures through the bone of the sternum, they opened me up again to re-suture then put me in a coma for ten days to metabolise the drugs that made me crazy. I had very little appetite and lost 40 pounds, mostly fat (good riddance) which I've kept off. Also lost some muscle mass and strength, and so was admitted to a physical rehab facility for two weeks to regain strength and learn how to move about the house without having an accident, since my wife is at work all day. This is not as trivial as it sounded to me when it was first explained what could happen. For example, when taking a shower, don't turn around with your eyes closed, rinse the soap away, then open eyes before moving. The therapist demonstrated this, and caught me before I fell over. A hospital stay affects one's balance for several weeks after returning home. Another was, don't step over objects, like a foot stool, walk around it. I had one minor accident from not heeding that rule. I could go on, but this is not a forum on recovery techniques. I'm glad Axel is back and doing so very well, so quickly. Best Regards, Erich Kern Murrieta, California --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From corson at infodyn.com Tue Nov 20 19:27:22 2007 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Tue Nov 20 19:27:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds web page resurrected Message-ID: <003e01c82bee$6e292460$610fa8c0@Grimble> Hello all, If my memory serves me, there was some discussion on this list recently about the desire for a list website. Well, I have some good news. I have resurrected the original Rockhounds web page (http://www.infodyn.com/rockhounds/) from the days when I was maintaining this list and have once again begun to actively maintain it. I have (hopefully) repaired all the missing/broken links and the current content should be good. By all means, do let me know if you find a bad link. So, feel free to email me links to your rockhounding-related web sites and I will add them to the page after reviewing them for relevance. I would especially like to get some links to personal collections that have images online. They are pretty neat when you find one. Do be patient waiting for your link to appear, as it may take me a week to 10 days to get it updated, but it will happen. Due to its longevity, the Rockhounds web page has a rather high Google ranking, so inclusion in it should prove worthwhile to all. Regards, TC PS: if there is anything else the current list managers would like me to host via the Rockhounds web page, just let me know. ________________________________ Thomas W. Corson OBG International corson@infodyn.com 2435 E Mayview Drive 520-225-0244 Green Valley, AZ 85614 World-Class Minerals For World-Class Collectors ________________________________ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/x-vcard --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Nov 20 21:28:55 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Nov 20 21:30:10 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Welcome Home Axel! In-Reply-To: <007701c82a57$a9e30d10$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <007701c82a57$a9e30d10$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: We all missed you and I'm personally happy you are back and recovering well. I'm sure you'll do exactly what the docs recommend. Cheers!!! Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista? + Windows Live?. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Nov 20 21:54:17 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Nov 20 21:36:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dismal Swamp Idaho imminent closure References: <20071118204609.cekmq255sgc4owwg@mail.ucla.edu> <200711200723.lAK7N1ad028360@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <4743C3E9.2C9C@Tomaszewski.net> Tim, Thank you for speaking out, as an expert, for all us rockhounds. I'm a very long way from Dismal Swamp, but I hope to collect there some day. Please let us know if your letter is as effective with the BLM as it appears to be. I hope you get some effective help. Thanks again for keeping us informed about Dismal Swamp. Kreigh Tim Fisher wrote: > > Dismal Swamp, a long-time favorite Idaho collecting area, is in > danger of being gated from June 1 to Oct 1 every year, effectively > eliminating access to rockhounds. Comments are due Thanksgiving Day > (that's right). My comments appear below the letter. I have a copy of > the proposed action in MS Word if anyone is interested. This is a > plain case of someone who doesn't know what they are doing seeing a > "problem area" and attempting to "fix" it with the cheapest and > fastest solution they can think of. The problem is, that solution > effectively eliminates rockhounding in this extremely popular dig > site and does nothing to relieve perceived problems with endangered > bull trout spawning habitat in Buck Creek. > > Here is the letter from the Boise NF: > > >Dear Interested Participant: > > > >Enclosed is the proposed action for the Lostman/Buck Creeks > >Watershed Improvement Project located on the Mountain Home Ranger > >District of the Boise National Forest. This letter is to invite your > >comments on the project. > > > >The objective of the project is to improve watershed processes and > >fish habitat in the Lostman Creek and Buck Creek watersheds by > >removing stream impacts from the road system and unregulated smoky > >quartz exploration. The proposed action is to change 24.5 miles of > >road and 3.1 miles of trail from a seasonal motorized restriction to > >a year-round closure for all motorized use, seasonally close 9.0 > >mile of road to all motorized use, treat 24.5 miles of road for > >long-term reduction in erosion, remove 23 road/stream crossings > >(three to provide increased fish passage), and limit public access > >to the Dismal Swamp Area. > > > >The public is invited to comment on the proposed action. Those who > >submit timely comments will be eligible to appeal the decision > >pursuant to the 36 CFR 215 regulations and the April 24, 2006 order > >issued by the U.S. District Court for the District of Montana in > >Case No. CV 03-119-M-DWM. The opportunity to comment ends 30 days > >following publication of this legal notice. Each individual or > >representative from each organization that provides comments or > >otherwise expresses interest in the project must either sign the > >comments or otherwise verify identity in order to attain appeal > >eligibility. Comments received in response to this request will be > >available for public inspection and will be released in their > >entirety if requested pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act. > > > >Written comments must be submitted to me at the Mountain Home Ranger > >District, 2180 American Legion Blvd, Mountain Home, ID 83647. The > >office business hours for those submitting hand-delivered comments > >are from 7:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m., Monday through Friday, excluding holidays. > > > >Those wishing to submit oral comments may provide them to me during > >normal business hours via telephone at (208)587-7961, or in person. > >Electronic comments must be submitted in a format such as an email > >message, plain text (.txt), rich text format (.rtf), or Word (.doc) > >to comments-intermtn-boise-mtn-home@fs.fed.us. In cases where no > >identifiable name is attached to a comment, a verification of > >identity will be required for appeal eligibility. If using an > >electronic message, a scanned signature is one way to provide > >verification. It is the responsibility of persons providing comments > >to submit them by the close of the comment period. Individuals and > >organizations wishing to be eligible to appeal must meet the > >information requirements of 36 CFR 215.6. > > > >If you have questions about this project, please contact Clayton > >Nalder at (208) 587-7961. Thank you for your continued interest in > >natural resource management activities on the Mountain Home Ranger District. > > > >Sincerely, > > > > > >LARRY TRIPP > >District Ranger > > > >Enclosure (1) > > My comments: > > >I am a practicing fisheries biologist who has specialized in habitat > >restoration and life cycle dynamics of salmonid populations for the > >past 20 years, and practices in Idaho. I am writing these comments > >as both a practicing fisheries biologist and an avid recreational > >rockhound. The proposal to limit public access to Dismal Swamp is a > >misguided attempt to limit damage to potential bull trout habitat > >and does not address the main issues of sedimentation in bull trout > >spawning habitat. > > > >Dismal Swamp is an important area for recreational rockhounds that > >has been dug for its quality smoky quartz and topaz crystals for > >more than the 20 years stated in the proposed action. I am sure > >rockhounding was occurring in the area in the 1940s and continually > >to the present. It appears to me as if the entire swamp was placer > >mined before then, perhaps for gold, as the stream gravels are too > >well sorted in the upland areas as one digs into the subsoil to have > >been naturally deposited. It has since recovered to a > >natural-looking state on its own, with no help from the Forest > >Service. The area is extremely popular with rockhounds because this > >is a unique resource that I am not aware is available anywhere else > >in the Pacific Northwest outside of Montana. The closest quartz > >crystals that are commonly available to rockhounds occur at Crystal > >Park, MT. I suggest that the persons responsible for this proposed > >action discuss the extremely well-managed recreational digging area > >there with the appropriate USFS personnel in MT if they need an idea > >of how to properly manage a popular quartz crystal digging area. > > > >There are several inaccuracies in the description of the proposed > >action that seem to be used to justify the proposed road closure. > >Recreational rockhounding is an allowed use on every national forest > >and BLM owned land in the entire country. Recreationists do not need > >a permit nor do they need to file a plan of operation to dig small > >quantities of minerals for personal use. Therefore the implication > >that the digging for personal use that occurs is illegal is false. > >It is the Forest Services' responsibility to see that resource > >damage does not take place from recreational activities, not the > >users'. This applies to all recreational uses, not just rockhounds. > >One does not need a permit to disturb the ground when digging a > >temporary pit toilet where such uses are permitted, for example. > > > >Sedimentation that could possibly effect bull trout habitat is most > >likely to occur in the immediate area of Dismal Swamp, and no > >documentation is given that bull trout are even present or ever were > >present in this very small, unnamed tributary to Buck Creek. The > >swamp is a headwater area above a long reach of extremely steep > >cascades and rapids (approximately 15% gradient) that typically > >would block adult bull trout movement to or from the headwaters, > >where the only likely spawning habitat would be located. In my > >experience as a fisheries biologist who has specialized in habitat > >restoration and life cycle dynamics of salmonid populations for the > >past 20 years, and practices in Idaho, I would not expect bull trout > >to be present in this stream even if it was in a pristine condition. > >I would also doubt very much that sediment from the recreational > >digging of smoky quartz in the swamp area would effect likely > >potential bull trout spawning habitat 1.5 miles downstream in Buck > >Creek (not one mile as stated in the proposal) in any perceptible way. > > > >Furthermore, sedimentation levels in batholithic geology are > >naturally very high. The proposed project area is in the Atlanta > >Lobe of the Idaho batholith, and as your geologist could tell you, > >the impacts to spawning habitat that you perceive 1.5 miles > >downstream in Buck Creek are more likely caused by naturally high > >sedimentation rates in this extremely erosible batholith than > >streambank disturbing activities that are occurring 1.5 miles > >upstream of a very steep gradient reach in the headwaters of a small > >tributary. I cannot conceive of a mechanism whereby large quantities > >of sediment would be delivered from Dismal Swamp to the mainstem of > >Buck Creek on even an intermittent basis, except possibly an > >exceedingly rare rain-on-snow event. > > > >The research showing road related impacts to habitat above certain > >densities of roads per square mile is irrelevant to the proposed > >action. Closing the road to Dismal Swamp to vehicle use from 6/1 to > >10/1 would not change the road density in the watershed. I see no > >proposal to decommission any roads in the watershed so I assume the > >road density would remain unchanged. Thus no perceptible > >improvements to bull trout habitat would be expected to occur from > >seasonal or even permanent road closures. > > > >This is case of "it looks bad so let's fix it" (ref the photo in the > >documentation) but in reality, rockhounding activities are likely > >not effecting the target endangered species in any meaningful way, > >and the "fix" allows sedimentation to continue to occur for tens of > >years in the immediate Dismal Swamp area from diggings that will not > >typically cease delivering sediment to the stream channel merely > >because the area is no longer being disturbed. If the Boise NF wants > >to limit damage to riparian areas in this unnamed tributary from > >recreational rockhounding, they should find a way to manage the > >activity as to affect the recovery of the riparian area, not merely > >close the road for the summer and expect that to solve the perceived > >problem. I suggest you contact the managers of Crystal Park for a > >management method that accommodates endangered species and > >recreational users of your forest instead of throwing up a gate and > >assuming that the problem will fix itself: > > > >http://www.fs.fed.us/geology/crystal_park.html > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site > Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Nov 20 21:55:59 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Nov 20 21:56:01 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dismal Swamp Idaho imminent closure In-Reply-To: <200711200723.lAK7N1ad028360@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <20071118204609.cekmq255sgc4owwg@mail.ucla.edu> <200711200723.lAK7N1ad028360@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: I sent an email to comments-intermtn-boise-mtn-home@fs.fed.us as indicated in your email. This is probably the only way to get a message to them prior to Thanksgiving. Glenn > From: nospam@orerockon.com> Subject: [Rockhounds] Dismal Swamp Idaho imminent closure Each individual or representative from each organization that provides comments or > >otherwise expresses interest in the project must either sign the > >comments or otherwise verify identity in order to attain appeal > >eligibility. Comments received in response to this request will be > >available for public inspection and will be released in their > >entirety if requested pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act.> >> >Written comments must be submitted to me at the Mountain Home Ranger > >District, 2180 American Legion Blvd, Mountain Home, ID 83647. The > >office business hours for those submitting hand-delivered comments > >are from 7:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m., Monday through Friday, excluding holidays.> >> >Those wishing to submit oral comments may provide them to me during > >normal business hours via telephone at (208)587-7961, or in person. > >Electronic comments must be submitted in a format such as an email > >message, plain text (.txt), rich text format (.rtf), or Word (.doc) > >to comments-intermtn-boise-mtn-home@fs.fed.us. In cases where no > >identifiable name is attached to a comment, a verification of > >identity will be required for appeal eligibility. If using an > >electronic message, a scanned signature is one way to provide > >verification. It is the responsibility of persons providing comments > >to submit them by the close of the comment period. Individuals and > >organizations wishing to be eligible to appeal must meet the > >information requirements of 36 CFR 215.6.> _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From RicSchager at aol.com Tue Nov 20 22:29:27 2007 From: RicSchager at aol.com (RicSchager@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 20 22:29:34 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? Message-ID: Saw this quartz crystal on eBay being sold by a reputable seller. It sold for a great price for a 1/2" quartz crystal, as if it really is rare and real. But I didn't think that quartz like this exists in claimed location. My question to you fellow rockers, do you think it is really from Hawaii??? _RARE LOCALE Quartz Crystal OLOWALU, HAWAII - (eBay item 300168316082 end time Nov-08-07 18:49:25 PST)_ (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300168316082&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123) Rich. (mailto:rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kcbaran at arczip.com Tue Nov 20 23:27:18 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Tue Nov 20 23:37:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles Message-ID: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Nov 21 01:51:07 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 21 01:51:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001801c82c24$0a477880$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Rich, I was surprised that fluorescent calcite is found on Hawaii too. Yet Kitty gave me a specimen. I think she's the one to consult in this matter! Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens > RicSchager@aol.com > Verzonden: woensdag 21 november 2007 7:29 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? > > Saw this quartz crystal on eBay being sold by a reputable > seller. It sold for a great price for a 1/2" quartz crystal, > as if it really is rare and real. > But I didn't think that quartz like this exists in claimed > location. My question to you fellow rockers, do you think it > is really from Hawaii??? > > _RARE LOCALE Quartz Crystal OLOWALU, HAWAII - (eBay item > 300168316082 end time Nov-08-07 18:49:25 PST)_ > (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3001683160 > 82&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123) > > Rich. (mailto:rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of > 2007's hottest products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000 30000000001) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Nov 21 01:54:58 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 21 01:55:48 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Welcome Home Axel! In-Reply-To: References: <007701c82a57$a9e30d10$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <001901c82c24$93f04120$6401a8c0@AxelHP> The doctors say I should get some sunlight so I lit up all my UV-lamps... Cool sight, the scars are black on the slightly tan fluorescing skin. Thanks Glenn! AxWell _____ Van: Glenn Wimpee [mailto:pawpawtiger@hotmail.com] Verzonden: woensdag 21 november 2007 6:29 Aan: axel.emmermann@pandora.be; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Onderwerp: Welcome Home Axel! We all missed you and I'm personally happy you are back and recovering well. I'm sure you'll do exactly what the docs recommend. Cheers!!! Glenn _____ Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Power up! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Nov 21 02:10:33 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 21 02:12:14 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] OT..Remarkable recovery for Axel -- three cheers In-Reply-To: <003001c82beb$eb11f270$eef8f604@TheBlackAdder> References: <003001c82beb$eb11f270$eef8f604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <001e01c82c26$c12d25c0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Erich, And I thought I had it bad ;-))) Thanks for the advise, Erich. I had indeed some dizzy spells as a result from deep narcosis. My wife is out to the drugstore to buy waterproof bandages so my next shower is in the immediate future. I'll keep your advise in mind! The guy next to me in the room had a valve repair, 3 bypasses and carotid repair. He was in the hospital for 8 days. I guess you need a little luck too.... Take care Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Erich Kern > Verzonden: woensdag 21 november 2007 4:09 > Aan: Rockhounds > CC: Axel Emmermann > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] OT..Remarkable recovery for Axel -- > three cheers > > > > Axel, and the list, folks, > > That Axel is already answering emails is a testament to his > strong constitution and the skill of his doctors. It was 6 > weeks after my valve replacement that I was back home > answering emails. My coronary arteries were very clean, so > bypass was not needed, but the aortic valve was only opening > 3mm. 20+mm is normal > > I had my aortic valve replaced 15 Feb. of this year, had a > near psychotic reaction to the morphine and anaesthetic, so > my arms were restrained with the permission of my wife. My > struggling against them pulled the wire sutures through the > bone of the sternum, they opened me up again to re-suture > then put me in a coma for ten days to metabolise the drugs > that made me crazy. I had very little appetite and lost 40 > pounds, mostly fat (good riddance) which I've kept off. Also > lost some muscle mass and strength, and so was admitted to a > physical rehab facility for two weeks to regain strength and > learn how to move about the house without having an accident, > since my wife is at work all day. > > This is not as trivial as it sounded to me when it was first > explained what could happen. For example, when taking a > shower, don't turn around with your eyes closed, rinse the > soap away, then open eyes before moving. The therapist > demonstrated this, and caught me before I fell over. A > hospital stay affects one's balance for several weeks after > returning home. Another was, don't step over objects, like a > foot stool, walk around it. I had one minor accident from not > heeding that rule. > > I could go on, but this is not a forum on recovery > techniques. I'm glad Axel is back and doing so very well, so quickly. > > Best Regards, > > Erich Kern > Murrieta, California > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Nov 21 02:14:37 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 21 02:14:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! In-Reply-To: <018601c82bc8$44bc64f0$6b01a8c0@okapi> References: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><00bd01c82bc7$63c41420$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <018601c82bc8$44bc64f0$6b01a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <001f01c82c27$52bb9170$6401a8c0@AxelHP> There should be a mineral named after this: zipperite or something along these lines... After all, there's already zippeite. (I'm soothing my conscience here for dragging the list so for off-topic for so long ;-)))) Thanks Gary Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Gary Brown > Verzonden: dinsdag 20 november 2007 23:54 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! > > > So, Axel, they give you an official "zipper club" membership card? > > Welcome back... > > GcB > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Wed Nov 21 03:07:26 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Wed Nov 21 03:08:50 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! References: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><00bd01c82bc7$63c41420$6401a8c0@AxelHP><018601c82bc8$44bc64f0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <001f01c82c27$52bb9170$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <000c01c82c2e$b756b590$0200a8c0@Notebook> Axel, Let me be one of the last to welcome you back. Stay well - John From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Nov 21 03:20:02 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 21 03:19:56 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! In-Reply-To: <000c01c82c2e$b756b590$0200a8c0@Notebook> References: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><00bd01c82bc7$63c41420$6401a8c0@AxelHP><018601c82bc8$44bc64f0$6b01a8c0@okapi><001f01c82c27$52bb9170$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <000c01c82c2e$b756b590$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <002001c82c30$762fde00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Thank you John! I fully intend to stay well. Right now I feel like I have a kryptonite-chunk (Hey Margaret, I dreamed up this one especially for you) the size of a basket ball sitting on my chest ;-))))) (ROFLMAO, actually). BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens John Siebel > Verzonden: woensdag 21 november 2007 12:07 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! > > Axel, > > Let me be one of the last to welcome you back. > > Stay well - John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Nov 21 04:44:56 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Nov 21 04:45:09 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dismal Swamp Idaho imminent closure In-Reply-To: References: <20071118204609.cekmq255sgc4owwg@mail.ucla.edu> <200711200723.lAK7N1ad028360@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <200711211245.lALCj55j021453@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I emailed my comments and got a confirmation receipt back, so I assume they will be read. I do know that emailed comments count exactly as if you had mailed a letter or called with the USFS these days. In the not so distant past they were strongly discouraged. I also assume that your signature should include your name address phone etc. so you can be "identified" and hunted down like the negative nellie vermin that you are lol. At 09:55 PM 11/20/2007, you wrote: >I sent an email to comments-intermtn-boise-mtn-home@fs.fed.us as >indicated in your email. > >This is probably the only way to get a message to them prior to Thanksgiving. >Glenn Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From libawc at emory.edu Wed Nov 21 05:57:27 2007 From: libawc at emory.edu (Anita D. Westlake) Date: Wed Nov 21 05:58:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002001c82c46$737e5090$5a7af1b0$@edu> Looks Tibetan to me. Anita -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of RicSchager@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:29 AM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? Saw this quartz crystal on eBay being sold by a reputable seller. It sold for a great price for a 1/2" quartz crystal, as if it really is rare and real. But I didn't think that quartz like this exists in claimed location. My question to you fellow rockers, do you think it is really from Hawaii??? _RARE LOCALE Quartz Crystal OLOWALU, HAWAII - (eBay item 300168316082 end time Nov-08-07 18:49:25 PST)_ (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300168316082&ssPageName= ADME:B:WNA:US:1123) Rich. (mailto:rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jscully216 at aol.com Wed Nov 21 06:25:40 2007 From: jscully216 at aol.com (jscully216@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 21 06:26:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> Message-ID: <8C9FA61871C7E8C-210-7CA5@WEBMAIL-MC03.sysops.aol.com> Toyota Tacoma 4WD I was rockhounding in Oro Grande last week with two likeminded souls.? We were camped on the shoulder of a hill and would have made a perfect Toyota ad.? All three of us have Tacomas. (-: -----Original Message----- From: Charles Baran To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:27 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck...? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 21 06:34:18 2007 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Nov 21 06:34:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> Message-ID: <774530.41217.qm@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I use a 2000 GMC Safari (same as the Chevy Astro) with AWD. It's built on a 3/4 ton truck chassis, and has a 4.3 L V-6 and towing package. It pulls my 25 ft travel trailer easily, and (without the trailer) can go off-road or up nasty mining roads. With the 2nd & 3rd seats removed (they come out easily) you can haul a lot of rocks! Jim Daly Charles Baran wrote: Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From efkern at earthlink.net Wed Nov 21 07:08:16 2007 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Wed Nov 21 07:08:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> <8C9FA61871C7E8C-210-7CA5@WEBMAIL-MC03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <001a01c82c50$5965aaa0$38faf604@TheBlackAdder> Subaru Baja, AWD, standard 4 cyl engine with lockable camper shell over the short bed. 8.5" road clearance with mfr's tires. 26 mpg on long trips. It has a full sized back seat but with little leg room in the back. Very comfortable we found after a 3,600 mile trip this past July. Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: jscully216@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:25 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Vehicles Toyota Tacoma 4WD I was rockhounding in Oro Grande last week with two likeminded souls.? We were camped on the shoulder of a hill and would have made a perfect Toyota ad.? All three of us have Tacomas. (-: -----Original Message----- From: Charles Baran To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:27 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck...? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Nov 21 07:16:15 2007 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Wed Nov 21 07:16:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Rockhounds web page resurrected In-Reply-To: <003e01c82bee$6e292460$610fa8c0@Grimble> References: <003e01c82bee$6e292460$610fa8c0@Grimble> Message-ID: <006e01c82c51$75e823a0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Tom: I for one like seeing the old web page active again. It brings back Memories from the days when those of us who had actual contact with the web were thought odd, then lucky. The web page looks great! Web site longevity, links from other pages and search history are all beneficial to search rankings and I am glad you are leveraging them. While I am not one of the list hosts or managers, may I ask for a small change? Could you rework the paragraph linking to the Rockhounds@Drizzle.com? This not criticism as I fully understand the level of work required to chase down and correct old page links interspersed with text from the old web page. Getting the page alive and available are more important, (to me anyway) that any quibbling about text. My thoughts are: Could you change the email forum intro from a negative ("no longer maintained"); to something more positive like "The Rockhounds email forum has been in continuous discussion since 199? and is located at "link"". The actual wording is your choice as I am only suggesting. Many thanks for all of your rockhounds work both past and present! Ted -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Tom Corson Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:27 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds web page resurrected Hello all, If my memory serves me, there was some discussion on this list recently about the desire for a list website. Well, I have some good news. I have resurrected the original Rockhounds web page (http://www.infodyn.com/rockhounds/) from the days when I was maintaining this list and have once again begun to actively maintain it. I have (hopefully) repaired all the missing/broken links and the current content should be good. By all means, do let me know if you find a bad link. So, feel free to email me links to your rockhounding-related web sites and I will add them to the page after reviewing them for relevance. I would especially like to get some links to personal collections that have images online. They are pretty neat when you find one. Do be patient waiting for your link to appear, as it may take me a week to 10 days to get it updated, but it will happen. Due to its longevity, the Rockhounds web page has a rather high Google ranking, so inclusion in it should prove worthwhile to all. Regards, TC PS: if there is anything else the current list managers would like me to host via the Rockhounds web page, just let me know. ________________________________ Thomas W. Corson OBG International corson@infodyn.com 2435 E Mayview Drive 520-225-0244 Green Valley, AZ 85614 World-Class Minerals For World-Class Collectors ________________________________ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed text/plain (text body -- kept) text/x-vcard --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Nov 21 07:40:54 2007 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Wed Nov 21 07:40:59 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! In-Reply-To: <001f01c82c27$52bb9170$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><00bd01c82bc7$63c41420$6401a8c0@AxelHP><018601c82bc8$44bc64f0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <001f01c82c27$52bb9170$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <006f01c82c54$e74394a0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Welcome back Axel! Your absence, brief as it was, left a noticeable vacuum in our rock world. My apologies to those offended. I borrowed this from Debbie Friedman's version of a Jewish prayer for healing; it has been resonating in my mind ever since I heard Axel was up for an operation: "Bless Axel with r'-fu-a sh'-lei-ma The renewal of body, the renewal of spirit And let us say: Amen." Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Nov 21 07:51:15 2007 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Nov 21 07:51:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> Message-ID: Chuck, I have a 2004 GMC Envoy with a V6 engine. It offers a choice of 2WD, AWD, 4WDhi or 4WDlo from a switch on the dash and has plenty of carrying capacity for tools and rocks. It has good ground clearance and also has a very comfortable highway ride. This past October I drove it from Lexington, MA to Marion, KY as part of a Boston Mineral Club fieldtrip to the KY/IL fluorite district. It was a 2400 mile roundtrip and the car hauled me and ALL my tools there and tools plus specimens back with space to spare. I even had room on the way out to drop off a hammered dulcimer and a wooden hobby horse at my son's house in Columbus, OH. I have also used this vehicle to traverse some pretty ugly rutted roads and steep grades and it has handled those with ease as well. I am sure that there are better cars out there for pure off-roading but for me the Envoy offers a great mix of on-road comfort and off-road capability. Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Nov 21, 2007 2:27 AM, Charles Baran wrote: > Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My > wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 > and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no > problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I > don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Nov 21 08:09:17 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Nov 21 08:09:22 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <022601c82c58$deadb790$6b01a8c0@okapi> Looks kind of like a Herkimer...especially with the black inclusions. Doesn't the Himalayan stuff have green chlorite for the typical inclusion? GcB From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Nov 21 08:20:29 2007 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Nov 21 08:20:29 2007 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Vehicles Message-ID: <002601c82c5a$711c0680$6501a8c0@astound.net> I own a 1997 Jeep Cherokee with the straight six and select trac. Where I go, regular highway tires don't survive. Even some of the gravel roads do in ordinary tires. I usually use six ply steel belted truck tires rather than all terain tires since they are better on the freeways at 75 mph. I do most of my rockhounding in Oregon, Nevada and California. Ground clearance is very important and some of these newer vehicles which may be four wheel drive just don't have it. I also think some of them are on car frames that are not up to much extended off road motoring. ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Baran To: Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:27 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My > wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 > and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no > problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I > don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Nov 21 08:34:26 2007 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Wed Nov 21 08:34:30 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <774530.41217.qm@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> <774530.41217.qm@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007f01c82c5c$61f5ef20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> My vehicle GMC 2000 Sierra truck, 5.4L V8 4WD with locking rear, extended cab and short bed. This truck has taken my wife and kids across the country and back again, twice, camping and rock collecting. Our last trip swung though Yellowstone in the north and we returned through Capital Reefs and the Arches in Utah. With stops at the Royal Peacock, Sequoia NP, Fish Lake UT and various places in the desert in between. I avoid the worst roads, but I only fear the muddy stuff. One can always dig the frame out if necessary on a dry road, but getting wheels traction in a mud slough can be impossible. My turnaround circle is problematic; I used to think I should pick up a dirt bike for getting around rough trails when operating from a campsite. Talk about lack of space for rocks though. I may consider for my next off roader one of those vehicles with rear wheel turn capability; I find their turning circles attractive. I installed two off road halogen flood lights below the bumper in the rear and wired them into the backup lights. I do not have a problem seeing anything to my rear when I back up at night. They are also my canaries for ground clearance, when they get banged or scratched I know I am close to bottoming out my bumper and getting stuck I built a quick plywood box the width of the wheel well in the back. The box is open on top and has two slanted shelves open to the rear. All of the smaller rock tools fit in the shelves and I can quickly retrieve a hammer, pick, hand shovel, or chisel. Odds and ends fit in the open top (trash bags, plastic ties, markers, tent pegs, small screwdrivers for cleaning specimens, pliers). I also keep an inordinate number of buckets in the truck while rock hunting. One prominent local rock hound in the Richmond VA area chooses his cars for 1) ability to lay the drivers seat back into a comfortable sleep position bed, 2) maneuverability, 3) 4wd capability. His current car is a Subaru. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA From kadok at infowest.com Wed Nov 21 08:58:08 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Nov 21 08:57:52 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! In-Reply-To: <473E5FB00005C292@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) References: <000d01c82af3$05263a30$0f72ae90$@dillen@skynet.be><473491750013FEC4@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com><000501c82b9a$52991060$f7cb3120$@dillen@skynet.be><005e01c82ba6$de248540$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <473E5FB00005C292@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) Message-ID: <002e01c82c5f$b13d9ee0$0200a8c0@kadok> Yes; great to have you back!!! Take it easy and complete your recovery quickly!! Margaret <;-}}}} Yay! Welcome back, Axel! :-D :-D :-D Aloha nui loa, Kitty & Bill At 08:55 AM 11/20/2007, you wrote: >There, now you know how it feels, Rik ;-))) > >Indeed outstanding report which I'll be reading in Dutch soon I guess... > >Cheers >Axel -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Nov 21 08:58:19 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 21 08:58:16 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! In-Reply-To: <006f01c82c54$e74394a0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><00bd01c82bc7$63c41420$6401a8c0@AxelHP><018601c82bc8$44bc64f0$6b01a8c0@okapi><001f01c82c27$52bb9170$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <006f01c82c54$e74394a0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <004101c82c5f$b8540b10$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Thank you Ted! As I said earlier, I'm still here so all of you who prayed (thus saving my life): I'm now your responsibility and you must all provide for me as long as I live.... Wait a minute... Hold on... Oh, my daughter just informed me that this is exclusively a Chinese custom. If you save somebody he or she becomes your responsibility. Darn, I thought my ship came in ;-)))) Nice as it feels to be recognized and missed, I can't keep answering all your mails without cluttering the rockhounds traffic. Thank you all for the sympathy and concern and prayers etc.... Still, we need to get back to business and rockhound. Thank you all again Gratefully yours Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Ted Kowalski > Verzonden: woensdag 21 november 2007 16:41 > Aan: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! > > Welcome back Axel! > Your absence, brief as it was, left a noticeable vacuum in > our rock world. > > My apologies to those offended. > I borrowed this from Debbie Friedman's version of a Jewish > prayer for healing; it has been resonating in my mind ever > since I heard Axel was up for an operation: > "Bless Axel with r'-fu-a sh'-lei-ma > The renewal of body, the renewal of spirit And let us say: Amen." > > Ted Kowalski > Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Wed Nov 21 09:37:53 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Nov 21 09:38:05 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? In-Reply-To: <001801c82c24$0a477880$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <001801c82c24$0a477880$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <473E5FB000079DEA@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Actually Rich did consult me first off-list. Here's what I told him: Aloha, Kitty At 11:51 PM 11/20/2007, you wrote: >Rich, > >I was surprised that fluorescent calcite is found on Hawaii too. Yet Kitty >gave me a specimen. >I think she's the one to consult in this matter! > >Axel From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Nov 21 09:38:07 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Nov 21 09:38:44 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> Message-ID: <47446CFF.10107@verizon.net> Ford Focus wagon. Not recommended for off-road use. Often requires putting two wheels up on an embankment to get past large road obstacles. Lots of cargo room though. Done about $2,000 worth of damage so far, but it's still cheaper than owning a truck. Don From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Tue Nov 20 23:53:53 2007 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Wed Nov 21 10:31:26 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! References: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c82c6c$b2a75520$3c4cd0c4@federatiydq01o> Hi Axel! glad to see you back. remember, the main thing on the way to recovery, is the continuing on a permanent basis, the exercise proramme your heartsurgeon prescibes.walking at a brisk pace for an hour through your neighbourhood three times per week is what was prescribed for me. i do this in winter, in summer i do water aerobics for 45 minutes, thee times per week. (sorry for all small letters, recovering from a carpal tunnel; operation to my right hand) regards, horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Hammer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com:A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! > Yay !!!! > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Axel Emmermann > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:12:47 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! > > > Now, you sound happy ;-P > > Glad to be back! All the way soon, I hope! > > Hughug (ouch, sternum hurts.... LOL) > > Axel > >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Kitty & >> Bill Heacox >> Verzonden: dinsdag 20 november 2007 20:03 >> Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors >> Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! >> >> Yay! Welcome back, Axel! :-D :-D :-D >> >> Aloha nui loa, Kitty & Bill >> >> >> >> At 08:55 AM 11/20/2007, you wrote: >> >There, now you know how it feels, Rik ;-))) >> > >> >Indeed outstanding report which I'll be reading in Dutch >> soon I guess... >> > >> >Cheers >> >Axel >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.0/1139 - Release Date: > 19/11/2007 12:35 > > From tam2819 at gmail.com Tue Nov 20 19:15:08 2007 From: tam2819 at gmail.com (Teresa Masters) Date: Wed Nov 21 10:34:55 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel, In-Reply-To: <200711210202.lAL22G59032232@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200711210202.lAL22G59032232@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Axel, Boy, am I relieved! Welcome home. Hugs, Terrie From everbeek at ptd.net Wed Nov 21 09:55:44 2007 From: everbeek at ptd.net (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Wed Nov 21 10:34:59 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? References: <001801c82c24$0a477880$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <473E5FB000079DEA@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) Message-ID: <002c01c82c67$c01081a0$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> Kitty wrote: The most unusual exception is fluorescent calcite which is found in some lava caves, and we believe that this is caused by rainwater filtering through coral that was covered by lava and then elevated by volcanic activity millions of years ago. Hi Kitty, Certainly a possibility, but why not calcium derived from weathering of plagioclase and carbon dioxide supplied from descending groundwater? You have all the ingredients right there. Atmospheric carbon dioxide figures heavily in soil chemistry/mineralogy (Hi Don -- anything to add here?) and probably does in near-surface mineral formation in open spaces in rock as well. I'm not sure you need the coral. Cheers- Earl From corson at infodyn.com Wed Nov 21 10:38:39 2007 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Wed Nov 21 10:39:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Rockhounds web page resurrected In-Reply-To: <006e01c82c51$75e823a0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <003e01c82bee$6e292460$610fa8c0@Grimble> <006e01c82c51$75e823a0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <006901c82c6d$bc3868d0$610fa8c0@Grimble> Good idea. Consider it done... TC ________________________________ Thomas W. Corson OBG International corson@infodyn.com 2435 E Mayview Drive 520-225-0244 Green Valley, AZ 85614 http://www.obgrocks.com World Class Minerals For World Class Collectors ________________________________ > -----Original Message----- > From: Ted Kowalski [mailto:Ted@crystalgems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:16 AM > To: corson@infodyn.com; 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing > list for rock and gem collectors' > Subject: RE: Rockhounds web page resurrected > > Tom: > I for one like seeing the old web page active again. It > brings back Memories from the days when those of us who had > actual contact with the web were thought odd, then lucky. The > web page looks great! > > Web site longevity, links from other pages and search history > are all beneficial to search rankings and I am glad you are > leveraging them. > > While I am not one of the list hosts or managers, may I ask > for a small change? Could you rework the paragraph linking to > the Rockhounds@Drizzle.com? This not criticism as I fully > understand the level of work required to chase down and > correct old page links interspersed with text from the old > web page. Getting the page alive and available are more > important, (to me anyway) that any quibbling about text. > > My thoughts are: > Could you change the email forum intro from a negative ("no > longer maintained"); to something more positive like "The > Rockhounds email forum has been in continuous discussion > since 199? and is located at "link"". The actual wording is > your choice as I am only suggesting. > > Many thanks for all of your rockhounds work both past and present! > > Ted > > > From kadok at infowest.com Wed Nov 21 11:04:10 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Nov 21 11:03:56 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! In-Reply-To: <002001c82c30$762fde00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><00bd01c82bc7$63c41420$6401a8c0@AxelHP><018601c82bc8$44bc64f0$6b01a8c0@okapi><001f01c82c27$52bb9170$6401a8c0@AxelHP><000c01c82c2e$b756b590$0200a8c0@Notebook> <002001c82c30$762fde00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <003a01c82c71$4c593360$0200a8c0@kadok> Hey, Axel -- my (small!) Kryptonite chunk is still sitting in my shoulder very nicely. Just had it checked out yesterday and it's doing really well! Re the specific mass -- I think you'll have to check with Superman for that one! Margaret Thank you John! I fully intend to stay well. Right now I feel like I have a kryptonite-chunk (Hey Margaret, I dreamed up this one especially for you) the size of a basket ball sitting on my chest ;-))))) (ROFLMAO, actually). BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens John Siebel > Verzonden: woensdag 21 november 2007 12:07 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! > > Axel, > > Let me be one of the last to welcome you back. > > Stay well - John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Wed Nov 21 12:20:24 2007 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Rick Trapp) Date: Wed Nov 21 12:20:20 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> Message-ID: <47449308.3070804@azgs.az.gov> My wife and I and our two fifty-pound dogs use a 2001 extended cab F-150 4WD manual 5-speed with a V-8 - yeah, I know, not very green. It has a six-foot bed in back with a good cab-height shell. We run Goodrich Radial T/A KO tires on 17" rims. These tires have a fairly conventional but somewhat aggressive tread with 8-ply sidewalls which is critical out here in the desert and mountains (Arizona). The tires are quiet on the highway but have grip when you need it and the back roads out here rip a conventional 4- or 6-ply sidewall to shreds in no time. We keep all of our camping supplies, clothing, bedding, food, and rockhounding tools in rubbermaid-type tubs - various sizes and stackable. The rubbermaid tubs are quite watertight for anything short of floating down a river. At the camp site we remove the tubs and can set them outside the truck with no worries if it rains. All food is kept in one or two tubs and those tubs and the cooler go in the cab at night. We use the Coleman "five-day" coolers (only "three-day" coolers out here for most of the year) - one or two depending on the length of the trip. We take the same equipment if it is going to be overnight - no matter one night or ten. We always dry-camp (not in established campgrounds), but take lots of water. Most days we have a hot shower courtesy of solar showers - it really feels good to get the dust and dirt off before sleeping. For sleeping, we use a thin (5") air mattress that is designed to fit around the wheel wells in the bed of the truck. We used a regular air mattress for years, but the sides tend to creep up over the wheel wells and you end up bunched up in the middle. The $70-80 for a custom-fit air mattress is well worth it. We use cheap rectangular bags zipped together; if it will be cold we take extra blankets. Expensive bags are not necessary in our climate; even when it snows we are comfortable in the shell. Almost always we use a 10'x10' Sportz truck tent by Napier. It has a sock extending from one end that can be fastened completely around the truck and shell just behind the rear wheels so that you can crawl out of the shell directly into the tent. We keep our clothes and personal items in the tent rather than outside and we have a sheltered place to change or play cards or read if the weather is bad. The Sportz tents are very nice tents; they come in a variety of sizes and you can even get one that erects in the bed of a pickup and one that just covers the bed of a pickup. Ours is 10'x10' and goes up in about 10 minutes. BIG bonus on our tent: once it is set up, you can just loosen the fittings and drive away from it for day trips. We carry a "lot" of (mostly camping) equipment because we're old and like to be comfortable, but it all fits easily in the 6' bed of the pickup and shell. We can pack up or break camp in about 60-90 minutes which is not quite as fast as our camping buddies with their pop-up camper, but we're faster on the highway and we don't have to worry as much about overhanging branches and tipping over. Two things matter the most for a vehicle in rough terrain: front-wheel, four-wheel, or all-wheel drive; and high clearance. In about 95% of situations you can get by with one of those two things. For the other 5% you need both and if you have a large vehicle you need four-wheel or all-wheel drive. For the gear problem you might want to consider one of the small extensions that fit onto a trailer hitch. You have to be careful when crossing gullies but they're fairly cheap and could hold all of your tools and then some. Charles Baran wrote: > Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My > wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 > and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no > problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I > don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Nov 21 12:37:25 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Nov 21 12:43:20 2007 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <002601c82c5a$711c0680$6501a8c0@astound.net> References: <002601c82c5a$711c0680$6501a8c0@astound.net> Message-ID: <47449705.7070508@arczip.com> Jay: Kathy and I do our "Hounding" in Ore, Wa, Nev and Cal also. Like I said, I use regular hwy tires (from Les Schwab) with no problems, blow-outs or cuts. Even going over the obsidian on Glass Butte, Oregon. I just take it easy and go slow. Do you know anything about Crystal Peak and Babbit Peak Calif? Take care and have a great Thanksgiving. Chuck... jaybates wrote: >I own a 1997 Jeep Cherokee with the straight six and select trac. Where I >go, regular highway tires don't survive. Even some of the gravel roads do in >ordinary tires. I usually use six ply steel belted truck tires rather than >all terain tires since they are better on the freeways at 75 mph. I do most >of my rockhounding in Oregon, Nevada and California. Ground clearance is >very important and some of these newer vehicles which may be four wheel >drive just don't have it. I also think some of them are on car frames that >are not up to much extended off road motoring. >----- Original Message ----- >From: Charles Baran >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:27 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > > > > >>Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go >>rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My >>wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 >>and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no >>problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I >>don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Nov 21 12:39:49 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Nov 21 12:45:49 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <007f01c82c5c$61f5ef20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> <774530.41217.qm@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <007f01c82c5c$61f5ef20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: <47449795.5000006@arczip.com> Ted: How was Royal Peacock? Where did you dig. Find anything good? How about prices? Thanks. Chuck... Ted Kowalski wrote: >My vehicle >GMC 2000 Sierra truck, 5.4L V8 4WD with locking rear, extended cab and short >bed. This truck has taken my wife and kids across the country and back >again, twice, camping and rock collecting. Our last trip swung though >Yellowstone in the north and we returned through Capital Reefs and the >Arches in Utah. With stops at the Royal Peacock, Sequoia NP, Fish Lake UT >and various places in the desert in between. > >I avoid the worst roads, but I only fear the muddy stuff. One can always dig >the frame out if necessary on a dry road, but getting wheels traction in a >mud slough can be impossible. > >My turnaround circle is problematic; I used to think I should pick up a dirt >bike for getting around rough trails when operating from a campsite. Talk >about lack of space for rocks though. I may consider for my next off roader >one of those vehicles with rear wheel turn capability; I find their turning >circles attractive. > >I installed two off road halogen flood lights below the bumper in the rear >and wired them into the backup lights. I do not have a problem seeing >anything to my rear when I back up at night. They are also my canaries for >ground clearance, when they get banged or scratched I know I am close to >bottoming out my bumper and getting stuck > >I built a quick plywood box the width of the wheel well in the back. The box >is open on top and has two slanted shelves open to the rear. All of the >smaller rock tools fit in the shelves and I can quickly retrieve a hammer, >pick, hand shovel, or chisel. Odds and ends fit in the open top (trash bags, >plastic ties, markers, tent pegs, small screwdrivers for cleaning specimens, >pliers). I also keep an inordinate number of buckets in the truck while rock >hunting. > >One prominent local rock hound in the Richmond VA area chooses his cars for >1) ability to lay the drivers seat back into a comfortable sleep position >bed, >2) maneuverability, >3) 4wd capability. >His current car is a Subaru. > >Ted Kowalski >Fredericksburg, VA USA > > > > > From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Nov 21 12:41:30 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Nov 21 12:47:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <47446CFF.10107@verizon.net> References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> <47446CFF.10107@verizon.net> Message-ID: <474497FA.2050204@arczip.com> Wow! You got lots of guts! Chuck... DonH wrote: > > > Ford Focus wagon. Not recommended for off-road use. Often requires > putting two wheels up on an embankment to get past large road > obstacles. Lots of cargo room though. Done about $2,000 worth of > damage so far, but it's still cheaper than owning a truck. > > Don > > From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Nov 21 12:52:58 2007 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Nov 21 12:53:05 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> <47449308.3070804@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <000b01c82c80$80807f40$6501a8c0@astound.net> I also do a lot of dry camping and things that I have found very useful over the years have been the five day coolers, tubs, and solar showers. In the past couple years I have found the new LED head lanterns very useful for doing things in the dark where you need your hands. I usually take a couple canteloupes along for breakfast as they don't need refrigeration, and are delicious, help keep you regular and are loaded with moisture on hot days. I also take packaged sealed steaks with bacon strips since if they can fall to the bottom of the cooler and not get wet from the melted ice. I usually sleep in my Jeep or a backpack tent that can be put up easily. I have some nylon screening and magnetic strips for keeping the bugs out of the Jeep with the windows rolled down for ventilation. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Trapp To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > My wife and I and our two fifty-pound dogs use a 2001 extended cab F-150 > 4WD manual 5-speed with a V-8 - yeah, I know, not very green. It has a > six-foot bed in back with a good cab-height shell. We run Goodrich > Radial T/A KO tires on 17" rims. These tires have a fairly conventional > but somewhat aggressive tread with 8-ply sidewalls which is critical out > here in the desert and mountains (Arizona). The tires are quiet on the > highway but have grip when you need it and the back roads out here rip a > conventional 4- or 6-ply sidewall to shreds in no time. > > We keep all of our camping supplies, clothing, bedding, food, and > rockhounding tools in rubbermaid-type tubs - various sizes and > stackable. The rubbermaid tubs are quite watertight for anything short > of floating down a river. At the camp site we remove the tubs and can > set them outside the truck with no worries if it rains. All food is kept > in one or two tubs and those tubs and the cooler go in the cab at night. > > We use the Coleman "five-day" coolers (only "three-day" coolers out here > for most of the year) - one or two depending on the length of the trip. > We take the same equipment if it is going to be overnight - no matter > one night or ten. > > We always dry-camp (not in established campgrounds), but take lots of > water. Most days we have a hot shower courtesy of solar showers - it > really feels good to get the dust and dirt off before sleeping. > > For sleeping, we use a thin (5") air mattress that is designed to fit > around the wheel wells in the bed of the truck. We used a regular air > mattress for years, but the sides tend to creep up over the wheel wells > and you end up bunched up in the middle. The $70-80 for a custom-fit air > mattress is well worth it. We use cheap rectangular bags zipped > together; if it will be cold we take extra blankets. Expensive bags are > not necessary in our climate; even when it snows we are comfortable in > the shell. > > Almost always we use a 10'x10' Sportz truck tent by Napier. It has a > sock extending from one end that can be fastened completely around the > truck and shell just behind the rear wheels so that you can crawl out of > the shell directly into the tent. We keep our clothes and personal items > in the tent rather than outside and we have a sheltered place to change > or play cards or read if the weather is bad. The Sportz tents are very > nice tents; they come in a variety of sizes and you can even get one > that erects in the bed of a pickup and one that just covers the bed of a > pickup. Ours is 10'x10' and goes up in about 10 minutes. BIG bonus on > our tent: once it is set up, you can just loosen the fittings and drive > away from it for day trips. > > We carry a "lot" of (mostly camping) equipment because we're old and > like to be comfortable, but it all fits easily in the 6' bed of the > pickup and shell. We can pack up or break camp in about 60-90 minutes > which is not quite as fast as our camping buddies with their pop-up > camper, but we're faster on the highway and we don't have to worry as > much about overhanging branches and tipping over. > > Two things matter the most for a vehicle in rough terrain: front-wheel, > four-wheel, or all-wheel drive; and high clearance. In about 95% of > situations you can get by with one of those two things. For the other 5% > you need both and if you have a large vehicle you need four-wheel or > all-wheel drive. > > > > For the gear problem you might want to consider one of the small > extensions that fit onto a trailer hitch. You have to be careful when > crossing gullies but they're fairly cheap and could hold all of your > tools and then some. > > > > Charles Baran wrote: > > Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > > rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My > > wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 > > and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no > > problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I > > don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... > > -- > Rick Trapp > Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey > rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Nov 21 12:47:40 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Nov 21 12:53:34 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <47449308.3070804@azgs.az.gov> References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> <47449308.3070804@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <4744996C.4050302@arczip.com> Thanks everybody. You all seem to really have it together. Kathy and I just started this rock hunting/cutting/polishing hobby about two years ago. We haven't been able to do any camping yet because of the size limitations of our Suzuki(but we do get great mileage!). I'm thinking I mught get a small trailer to haul the camping gear and off load it before I tackle the ruts. Again, thanks. We have learned so very much from you kids. Have a great thanksgiving. Chuck and Kathy Baran... Rick Trapp wrote: > My wife and I and our two fifty-pound dogs use a 2001 extended cab > F-150 4WD manual 5-speed with a V-8 - yeah, I know, not very green. It > has a six-foot bed in back with a good cab-height shell. We run > Goodrich Radial T/A KO tires on 17" rims. These tires have a fairly > conventional but somewhat aggressive tread with 8-ply sidewalls which > is critical out here in the desert and mountains (Arizona). The tires > are quiet on the highway but have grip when you need it and the back > roads out here rip a conventional 4- or 6-ply sidewall to shreds in no > time. > > We keep all of our camping supplies, clothing, bedding, food, and > rockhounding tools in rubbermaid-type tubs - various sizes and > stackable. The rubbermaid tubs are quite watertight for anything short > of floating down a river. At the camp site we remove the tubs and can > set them outside the truck with no worries if it rains. All food is > kept in one or two tubs and those tubs and the cooler go in the cab at > night. > > We use the Coleman "five-day" coolers (only "three-day" coolers out > here for most of the year) - one or two depending on the length of the > trip. We take the same equipment if it is going to be overnight - no > matter one night or ten. > > We always dry-camp (not in established campgrounds), but take lots of > water. Most days we have a hot shower courtesy of solar showers - it > really feels good to get the dust and dirt off before sleeping. > > For sleeping, we use a thin (5") air mattress that is designed to fit > around the wheel wells in the bed of the truck. We used a regular air > mattress for years, but the sides tend to creep up over the wheel > wells and you end up bunched up in the middle. The $70-80 for a > custom-fit air mattress is well worth it. We use cheap rectangular > bags zipped together; if it will be cold we take extra blankets. > Expensive bags are not necessary in our climate; even when it snows we > are comfortable in the shell. > > Almost always we use a 10'x10' Sportz truck tent by Napier. It has a > sock extending from one end that can be fastened completely around the > truck and shell just behind the rear wheels so that you can crawl out > of the shell directly into the tent. We keep our clothes and personal > items in the tent rather than outside and we have a sheltered place to > change or play cards or read if the weather is bad. The Sportz tents > are very nice tents; they come in a variety of sizes and you can even > get one that erects in the bed of a pickup and one that just covers > the bed of a pickup. Ours is 10'x10' and goes up in about 10 minutes. > BIG bonus on our tent: once it is set up, you can just loosen the > fittings and drive away from it for day trips. > > We carry a "lot" of (mostly camping) equipment because we're old and > like to be comfortable, but it all fits easily in the 6' bed of the > pickup and shell. We can pack up or break camp in about 60-90 minutes > which is not quite as fast as our camping buddies with their pop-up > camper, but we're faster on the highway and we don't have to worry as > much about overhanging branches and tipping over. > > Two things matter the most for a vehicle in rough terrain: > front-wheel, four-wheel, or all-wheel drive; and high clearance. In > about 95% of situations you can get by with one of those two things. > For the other 5% you need both and if you have a large vehicle you > need four-wheel or all-wheel drive. > > > > For the gear problem you might want to consider one of the small > extensions that fit onto a trailer hitch. You have to be careful when > crossing gullies but they're fairly cheap and could hold all of your > tools and then some. > > > > Charles Baran wrote: > >> Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go >> rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. >> My wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 >> V6 and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with >> no problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small >> interior...I don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just >> wondering. Chuck... > > From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Nov 21 13:37:12 2007 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Nov 21 13:37:18 2007 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <002601c82c5a$711c0680$6501a8c0@astound.net> <47449705.7070508@arczip.com> Message-ID: <000701c82c86$ae0593a0$6501a8c0@astound.net> I have not been to Crystal Peak or Babbit Peak, but know some people that have gone there and had some luck. My brother drives an old Cougar on rockhounding trips and goes extremely slow on his Michelins. He has had flats, but does get by. You can do it, but you are much better off with good heavy duty tires, not chicken skins. ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Baran To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:37 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > Jay: Kathy and I do our "Hounding" in Ore, Wa, Nev and Cal also. Like > I said, I use regular hwy tires (from Les Schwab) with no problems, > blow-outs or cuts. Even going over the obsidian on Glass Butte, > Oregon. I just take it easy and go slow. Do you know anything about > Crystal Peak and Babbit Peak Calif? Take care and have a great > Thanksgiving. Chuck... > > jaybates wrote: > > >I own a 1997 Jeep Cherokee with the straight six and select trac. Where I > >go, regular highway tires don't survive. Even some of the gravel roads do in > >ordinary tires. I usually use six ply steel belted truck tires rather than > >all terain tires since they are better on the freeways at 75 mph. I do most > >of my rockhounding in Oregon, Nevada and California. Ground clearance is > >very important and some of these newer vehicles which may be four wheel > >drive just don't have it. I also think some of them are on car frames that > >are not up to much extended off road motoring. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Charles Baran > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:27 PM > >Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > > > > > > > > > >>Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > >>rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My > >>wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 > >>and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no > >>problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I > >>don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>Subscription Services: > >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Nov 21 14:04:55 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Nov 21 14:05:07 2007 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <000701c82c86$ae0593a0$6501a8c0@astound.net> References: <002601c82c5a$711c0680$6501a8c0@astound.net> <47449705.7070508@arczip.com> <000701c82c86$ae0593a0$6501a8c0@astound.net> Message-ID: <200711212205.lALM55Ci029994@bubbleator.drizzle.com> 8-ply? Oh puhleeeese! 12-ply minimum! LOL! At 01:37 PM 11/21/2007, you wrote: >I have not been to Crystal Peak or Babbit Peak, but know some people that >have gone there and had some luck. My brother drives an old Cougar on >rockhounding trips and goes extremely slow on his Michelins. He has had >flats, but does get by. You can do it, but you are much better off with good >heavy duty tires, not chicken skins. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From jaybates at rcn.com Wed Nov 21 14:52:07 2007 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Wed Nov 21 14:53:01 2007 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <002601c82c5a$711c0680$6501a8c0@astound.net><47449705.7070508@arczip.com><000701c82c86$ae0593a0$6501a8c0@astound.net> <200711212205.lALM55Ci029994@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <000501c82c91$25896320$6501a8c0@astound.net> When you are in Rome Oregon getting your tire fixed, or more likely replaced after a rock has gone through the sidewall, ask the guy fixing your tire what tire the local ranchers have had the best luck with in the last couple years and buy it. As they say when in Rome, do as the Romans do. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Fisher To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 2:04 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > 8-ply? Oh puhleeeese! 12-ply minimum! LOL! > > At 01:37 PM 11/21/2007, you wrote: > >I have not been to Crystal Peak or Babbit Peak, but know some people that > >have gone there and had some luck. My brother drives an old Cougar on > >rockhounding trips and goes extremely slow on his Michelins. He has had > >flats, but does get by. You can do it, but you are much better off with good > >heavy duty tires, not chicken skins. > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Nov 21 18:00:15 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Nov 21 18:02:38 2007 Subject: Fw: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <000501c82c91$25896320$6501a8c0@astound.net> References: <002601c82c5a$711c0680$6501a8c0@astound.net> <47449705.7070508@arczip.com> <000701c82c86$ae0593a0$6501a8c0@astound.net> <200711212205.lALM55Ci029994@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <000501c82c91$25896320$6501a8c0@astound.net> Message-ID: <200711220200.lAM20Jiw031175@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I asked in Lakeview and that's how I wound up with 12 plys. Those sunstone area roads are tire killers after they are freshly graveled :( At 02:52 PM 11/21/2007, you wrote: >When you are in Rome Oregon getting your tire fixed, or more likely replaced >after a rock has gone through the sidewall, ask the guy fixing your tire >what tire the local ranchers have had the best luck with in the last couple >years and buy it. As they say when in Rome, do as the Romans do. >----- Original Message ----- >From: Tim Fisher >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > >Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 2:04 PM >Subject: Re: Fw: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > > > > 8-ply? Oh puhleeeese! 12-ply minimum! LOL! Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Nov 21 18:01:09 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Nov 21 18:02:52 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! In-Reply-To: <004101c82c5f$b8540b10$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><00bd01c82bc7$63c41420$6401a8c0@AxelHP><018601c82bc8$44bc64f0$6b01a8c0@okapi><001f01c82c27$52bb9170$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <006f01c82c54$e74394a0$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> <004101c82c5f$b8540b10$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: Kinda hard to take all this sappy stuff ain't it Axel? Allow us to share and be happy. Go ahead and blush! We must be off our rockers...it would seem we actually like you... BTW you obviously flouresce, but do you phosphoresce? ROTFLMAO!!!! Glenn >> Oh, my daughter just informed me that this is exclusively a Chinese custom.> If you save somebody he or she becomes your responsibility.> Darn, I thought my ship came in ;-)))) > > Nice as it feels to be recognized and missed, I can't keep answering all> your mails without cluttering the rockhounds traffic. > Thank you all for the sympathy and concern and prayers etc....> Still, we need to get back to business and rockhound. > > Thank you all again> Gratefully yours> Axel> _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista? + Windows Live?. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 21 18:45:06 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 21 18:24:29 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> Message-ID: <4744E854.6FAE@Tomaszewski.net> 99 Chevy Astro extended w/ 4WD. But it is starting to show its age, so I am beginning to look for a replacement. I want something with the same high carriage and cargo space (when the back seat is out). Suggestions welcome. Kreigh Charles Baran wrote: > > Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My > wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 > and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no > problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I > don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 21 18:49:24 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 21 18:28:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! References: <88159.49083.qm@web83503.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><00bd01c82bc7$63c41420$6401a8c0@AxelHP><018601c82bc8$44bc64f0$6b01a8c0@okapi><001f01c82c27$52bb9170$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <000c01c82c2e$b756b590$0200a8c0@Notebook> <002001c82c30$762fde00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <4744E956.504F@Tomaszewski.net> Axel Emmermann wrote: > BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? > Kryptonite is supposedly element 126, which would probably put it around 25. Kreigh From corson at infodyn.com Wed Nov 21 18:42:22 2007 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Wed Nov 21 18:43:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] RE: Vehicles In-Reply-To: <200711220207.lAM26dwg003905@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200711220207.lAM26dwg003905@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <008a01c82cb1$4f2c8390$610fa8c0@Grimble> 1986 Ford full sized Eddie Bauer Bronco 4x4 3 inch Rancho lifted suspension Quad Rancho shocks 33x12.50R15 BFG Mud Terrain TA tires Full roll cage Smittybuilt tubular steel bumpers (with optional "Sierra Club Sucks" bumper sticker) Smittybuilt tubular steel nerf bars 8000 lb. Warn Winch ARB Air Lockers (locking differentials) - front and rear KC Hilites competition off road lights Dual batteries 12 gauge pump action riot gun loaded with 3 inch magnum 00 Buck (I live in southern Arizona after all... :-) 21 years new! NOT! Looks like it's been pinstriped with a chisel and the inside smells like a camel's a**... I call it "The Antichrist"... It is perfect. :-) ________________________________ Thomas W. Corson OBG International corson@infodyn.com 2435 E Mayview Drive 520-225-0244 Green Valley, AZ 85614 http://www.obgrocks.com World Class Minerals For World Class Collectors ________________________________ From Pmodreski at aol.com Wed Nov 21 18:47:53 2007 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 21 18:48:05 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! Message-ID: I guess you clarified this for me, Kreigh, I was still puzzling over what "specific mass" meant. Wondered if that was just a European term; in truth, I'd never heard that phrase before. Evidently, you and Axel are meaning the same thing as "specific gravity" by it. I didn't want to question Axel too closely about this, he's still recovering and may not be up to too sharp interrogation. Cheers, Pete In a message dated 11/21/2007 7:29:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: Axel Emmermann wrote: > BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? > Kryptonite is supposedly element 126, which would probably put it around 25. Kreigh **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Nov 21 19:42:35 2007 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Nov 21 19:42:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? References: <002001c82c46$737e5090$5a7af1b0$@edu> Message-ID: <002d01c82cb9$b898c250$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> It doesn't look like the Tibetian (Himalayan) quartz with carbonaceous inclusions I have seen, but that doesn't mean it isn't. I once found a beautiful quartz crystal in 3' of water at Bahia Honda State Park in Florida. Looks extactly like an Arkansas quartz crystal except for a small patch of pink coralline algae. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anita D. Westlake" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:57 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? > Looks Tibetan to me. > Anita > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > RicSchager@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:29 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? > > Saw this quartz crystal on eBay being sold by a reputable seller. It > sold > for a great price for a 1/2" quartz crystal, as if it really is rare and > real. > But I didn't think that quartz like this exists in claimed location. My > question to you fellow rockers, do you think it is really from Hawaii??? > > _RARE LOCALE Quartz Crystal OLOWALU, HAWAII - (eBay item 300168316082 end > time Nov-08-07 18:49:25 PST)_ > (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300168316082&ssPageName= > ADME:B:WNA:US:1123) > > Rich. (mailto:rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Nov 21 19:55:18 2007 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Nov 21 19:54:42 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> Message-ID: <005201c82cbb$7f177790$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I have a 2000 Ford Ranger 4x4, V6. I love the space behind the seats to hold tools or luggage because I don't have a cap over the back. Hauling stuff to shows, I cover everything with a tarp - and that works great. I haven't had to use 4 wheel drive much, but it took me from Louisville to Bancroft and back again carrying too much rock without any problems. (Mark E. can vouch for that.) Drove the steep road to the Princess Sodalite mine with nothing more than a running start. I've used 4WD in quarries to traverse mud of unknown depth and the very steep road at the top of the Corydon quarry where I wouldn't dream of taking a regular vehicle. For the most part the high ground clearance is more useful than 4WD. I'm not as adventurous as soon folks because I don't want $2000 in damage. Can't tell you how much quarry mud I've washed off in my drive way. Even going through the quarry's tire wash doesn't remove most of the mud in the wheel wells and chasis. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 2:27 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My > wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 and > regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no problem > (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I don't have > a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Wed Nov 21 23:00:37 2007 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Wed Nov 21 23:00:52 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <774530.41217.qm@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002201c82cd5$65bc6200$675fe842@Titans> I first started watching the ground for rocks long years ago in a 1949 V.W. bug, an outstanding rut and hole climber with the 36 H.P. engine. This year we are now totally equipped with a new F250, the big Diesel motor, Tractor air horn, overload air sacks and several other wants. A new 38 foot Snowbird 5th wheel with the big generator for longer stays and a new Backwoods camper with all the goodies for the rough country, a new Suzuki 700 A.T.V. 4x4, that turns out to be too powerful for my needs at 70 years old, the locals call me Mr. Kamikaze. We love this list and all that are on it, thanks lots people. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:34 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Vehicles >I use a 2000 GMC Safari (same as the Chevy Astro) with AWD. It's built on a >3/4 ton truck chassis, and has a 4.3 L V-6 and towing package. It pulls my >25 ft travel trailer easily, and (without the trailer) can go off-road or >up nasty mining roads. With the 2nd & 3rd seats removed (they come out >easily) you can haul a lot of rocks! > Jim Daly > > Charles Baran wrote: > Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My > wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 > and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no > problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I > don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See > how. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Nov 21 23:19:38 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Nov 21 23:28:37 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <002201c82cd5$65bc6200$675fe842@Titans> References: <774530.41217.qm@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002201c82cd5$65bc6200$675fe842@Titans> Message-ID: <47452D8A.9060806@arczip.com> Wayne; you are my hero! Kathy and I have got 10 more years to go to catch up with you and then maybe we can ditch out Suzuki and get a civilized rig. Take care and have a great Thanksgiving. Chuck... Wayne Rasmussen wrote: > I first started watching the ground for rocks long years ago in a 1949 > V.W. bug, an outstanding rut and hole climber with the 36 H.P. engine. > This year we are now totally equipped with a new F250, the big Diesel > motor, Tractor air horn, overload air sacks > and several other wants. A new 38 foot Snowbird 5th wheel with the > big generator for longer stays and a new Backwoods camper with all the > goodies for the rough country, a new Suzuki 700 A.T.V. 4x4, that > turns out to be too powerful for my needs at 70 years old, the locals > call me Mr. Kamikaze. > > We love this list and all that are on it, thanks lots people. > > Wayne > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:34 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > > >> I use a 2000 GMC Safari (same as the Chevy Astro) with AWD. It's >> built on a 3/4 ton truck chassis, and has a 4.3 L V-6 and towing >> package. It pulls my 25 ft travel trailer easily, and (without the >> trailer) can go off-road or up nasty mining roads. With the 2nd & 3rd >> seats removed (they come out easily) you can haul a lot of rocks! >> Jim Daly >> >> Charles Baran wrote: >> Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go >> rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My >> wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 >> and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no >> problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I >> don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. >> See how. >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Nov 22 06:32:26 2007 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 22 06:32:38 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles Message-ID: Sounds like Chuck already thanked everyone for the responses, but the vehicle comments keep coming in... So, I have a Jeep Cherokee, 4.0-liter 6-cyl, which has been very reliable and gets me everywhere and is fine for highway driving too (well, no it doesn't feel like a BMW, but what do you want...) as well as for hauling stuff around. Mine is a '92 and has 235,000 miles on it, still doing great. It doesn't quite have room for sleeping inside, though I have been known to curl up on the back seat in a pinch. I have Michelin LTX A/T tires and they seem to hold up great too. Cheers, and happy Thanksgiving to all, Pete Modreski, Denver CO In a message dated 11/22/2007 12:01:15 AM Mountain Standard Time, litleval@ruralnetwork.net writes: > Charles Baran wrote: > Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jaybates at rcn.com Thu Nov 22 08:07:00 2007 From: jaybates at rcn.com (jaybates) Date: Thu Nov 22 08:07:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: Message-ID: <001f01c82d21$b834d520$6501a8c0@astound.net> Pete I have a water proof plastic container that holds my cooking stove and stuff that I use to extend the back space for sleeping without the back seat bottom and the passenger seat pushed forward. I am 6-1" and I can sleep there fully extended on a foam pad. I have 186,000 miles and have had no major repairs to my Jeep. Maybe I am just lucky, but my Jeep has been totally reliable and not lived up to the supposedly poor repair record for Jeeps. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > > Sounds like Chuck already thanked everyone for the responses, but the > vehicle comments keep coming in... > > So, I have a Jeep Cherokee, 4.0-liter 6-cyl, which has been very reliable > and gets me everywhere and is fine for highway driving too (well, no it doesn't > feel like a BMW, but what do you want...) as well as for hauling stuff > around. Mine is a '92 and has 235,000 miles on it, still doing great. It doesn't > quite have room for sleeping inside, though I have been known to curl up on > the back seat in a pinch. I have Michelin LTX A/T tires and they seem to > hold up great too. > > Cheers, and happy Thanksgiving to all, > Pete Modreski, Denver CO > > > In a message dated 11/22/2007 12:01:15 AM Mountain Standard Time, > litleval@ruralnetwork.net writes: > > > Charles Baran wrote: > > Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > > rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. > > > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Nov 22 08:42:10 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Nov 22 08:42:14 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? Pete wrote: > I guess you clarified this for me, Kreigh, I was still > puzzling over what "specific mass" meant. Wondered if that > was just a European term; in truth, I'd never heard that > phrase before. Evidently, you and Axel are meaning the same > thing as "specific gravity" by it. I didn't want to > question Axel too closely about this, he's still recovering > and may not be up to too sharp interrogation. Axel's reply Yo Pete, thanks for the consideration but I'm already strong enough to change my own diapers ;-)))) Yeah, I meant "specific gravity" but the long-term effects of deep narcosis still haunt me, I guess. Funny term BTW. I would interpret the term as "the gravity measured at one place". Like gravity on the moon is only 1/6th of that on earth. Specific mass would mean the mass that is represented by 1 cubic centimeter of a substance in grams/cm?. Apparently linguistic logic will only take you so far. I usually don't make much mistakes like that but you got it figured out. No harm done ;-))) Kreigh wrote: > Kryptonite is supposedly element 126, which would probably > put it around 25. > Axel's reply: Hm, I think it will be less, Kreigh. Although a scientist should review my babblings I'm pretty sure that the following is reasonably approximately perhaps a bit true: Specific gravity of the elements culminates around element 76 which is Osmium. The osmium nucleus has the most "pull" on it's electron mantle of all elements. As a result the atoms shrinks and thus becomes heavier. This electromagnetic attraction between nucleus and electrons depends on: A: the number of protons AKA which element is it. The more protons, the more pull. B: A by proxy (1) the number of neutrons needed to stabilize the nucleus rises disproportionately with the numbers of protons. If this number gets really big, the "attractive force per volume" of the nucleus drops. Size seems to matter whit matter too. A voluminous nucleus packs less positive charge per cubic femtometer ;-))) C: A by proxy (2). The more protons, the more electrons. Electrons repel each other. Inner electron shells repel the outer ones thereby "bloating" the atom or ion. They also shield off the positive attraction from the nucleus which enhances the effect even more. So this is why Iridium, although it has more mass than osmium (a proton, an electron and some neutrons), has a slightly lower spec.grav. Also: the gigantic number of electrons swarming around the nucleus of element 126 would allow almost no "leakage" of electropositive attraction from the nucleus to get through. As a result, crystals of Kryptonite would be VERY loosely stacked making the crystal light... VERY light (compare SG of calcite to that of aragonite. The are both CaCO3 but the way that the molecules are stacked determines the SG) Taking all this into account I would not be surprised if Kryptonite were to float on water. Spec. Gravity below 1.0. There's a lot more to it and my explanation is a blatant simplification of the phenomenon but hey... I'm no rocket scientist ;-))) From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Nov 22 08:45:25 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Nov 22 08:45:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oops, how forgetful of me Message-ID: <001b01c82d27$1510dbe0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> happy Thanksgiving to all! Cluckcluckcluck ;-))) Axel Emmermann European Regional VP of the Fluorescent Mineral Society http://www.uvminerals.org/ My website:http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Nov 22 09:04:14 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Nov 22 09:04:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone Farewell Progress Report In-Reply-To: <20071121021205.DC80E1CC35@io.frii.com> References: <012701c82ba5$acd15fa0$6b01a8c0@okapi> <20071121021205.DC80E1CC35@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <006501c82d29$b6ba9790$6b01a8c0@okapi> All done. Ended about the way I figured it would...which is not a bad thing. All things considered, I liked the book. Hardly great literature, but a fun read if you know the area. They even give a shout-out to my old school: SD Tech. Ordering info from the back of the book: Send $18 plus $4 for the first book and $1 for each additional plus Wyoming sales tax if going to WY. Send to: Spur Ridge Enterprises PO Box 1719 Laramie, WY 82973 They give a website in the book, but that site is dead, though the domain is "redemption" according to WHOIS. Heh..."redemption". Appropriate. Gary http://www.catspaw-minerals.com "Don't you know someone that want's a MasMils/PLUS disk?" http://www.fusedlight.com "Don't you know someone's spouse who wants some fancy glass?" From lanny at lrream.com Thu Nov 22 09:46:45 2007 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Thu Nov 22 09:46:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? In-Reply-To: <002c01c82c67$c01081a0$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> References: <001801c82c24$0a477880$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <473E5FB000079DEA@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) <002c01c82c67$c01081a0$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> Message-ID: <0f598f060559b5087ecbfed13a2205cd@lrream.com> A search of MinDex yielded the following references from the mineral magazines over the past years. Although only one of these specifically list the sizes of the quartz crystals, at least they indicate some possibilities. Some of these articles also mention that there are several localities on the island that produce zeolites and other minerals. Regards, Lanny ---- Hawaii Lapidary Society, 1973, Hawaiian Gems and Their Locations: Rocks & Minerals 10/1973:48-10, pp. 638,63 "... clear hexagonal quartz crystals have been found in the ravines draining Mount Olomanu, in the red washes in the Keolu hill subdivision (above Kaelepulu pond) and in the HC&D quarry, above Kailua." ------- Cook, Robert B., 2004, Connoisseur?s Choice, Scolecite, Pune (Poona), Maharashtra, India: Rocks & Minerals 7-8/2004:79-4, pp. 248-251 Quartz with aragonite, pyrite, quartz, scolecite is found in the Kapaa Quarry, Kailua, Oahu ----- White, John Sampson, 1984, Minerals of the Puu o Ehu Quarry, Hawaii: Mineralogical Record 3-4/1984:15-2, pp. 95-97 All micro minerals: chabazite, epistilbite, laumontite, hematite(?), heulandite, nontronite, quartz ------ De Carlo, Eric Heinen and Sawada, Edward, 2001, Karst Calcite Deposits in Fossil Back Reef and Aeolian Dune Environments, Laie, O?ahu, Hawai?i: Mineral News, 5/2001:17-5, pp. 1,6-8 quarry in caldera of Koolau volcano: pyrite and quartz (no info on size) The article mostly discusses the back reef formations that produce a karst environment. These are quarried and caves are often encountered that contain various cave formations and calcite crystals. The Laie quarry in this article produced fine specimens, but is now worked out and closed. ----- An article in the Lapidary Journal (LJ is not indexed in MinDex) lists other mineral localities on the islands. Bragaw, James N. and Cregmile, Gary L., 1975, Rockhounding--Hawaiian Style: 3/1975, pp. 1822-1828 Small quartz crystals and quartz-lined geodes in Enchanted Lakes area, Keolu Hills, also zeolites in cavities in the basalts. Quartz crystals to 1 inch in Kapaa Quarry, Kailua town. The article describes several locations reached from Honolulu that produce gypsum roses, zeolites, and more. On Nov 21, 2007, at 9:55 AM, Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > Kitty wrote: > The most unusual exception is fluorescent calcite which is found in > some lava caves, and we believe that this is caused by rainwater > filtering through coral that was covered by lava and then elevated by > volcanic activity millions of years ago. > > Hi Kitty, > > Certainly a possibility, but why not calcium derived from weathering > of plagioclase and carbon dioxide supplied from descending > groundwater? You have all the ingredients right there. Atmospheric > carbon dioxide figures heavily in soil chemistry/mineralogy (Hi Don -- > anything to add here?) and probably does in near-surface mineral > formation in open spaces in rock as well. I'm not sure you need the > coral. > > Cheers- Earl > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Nov 22 09:48:39 2007 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 22 09:48:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel and kryptonite Message-ID: Hi Axel, and one more "welcome back" too, I think that "specific gravity" is a fairly archaic term, that just happens to be the name that was adopted for this quantity 'way back when. "Specific volume" is in fact a regularly used term, for volume per unit mass; the inverse of density. "Density" is the accepted term though, one just never hears "specific mass" used, though it could well have been. P.S., (Kreigh), I don't know that one can really predict (with any accuracy) the density of an unknown hypothetical superheavy element, just from the atomic number or atomic weight--i.e., kryptonite. For example, osmium, iridium, and platinum, sp. gr. 22.6, 22.4 and 21.45 respectively, are the densest known elements, though they are only at. no. 76, 77, and 78; as compared to uranium, americium, and californium, densities 20.2, 19.84, and 15.1, though with higher at. no.'s 92, 95, and 98. (see _http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/density.htm_ (http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/density.htm) ) and P.P.S., as soon as I dig it out, I should take & circulate a picture of MY FAVORITE real (I have it & can hold it in my hand) but non-natural (artificially made) specimen, a clear chunk of uranium-bearing glass, vivid yellow-green and fluoresces to beat the band, even from the longwave UV in daylight, and is my best ever candidate for a for-sure kryptonite look-alike. I bought it decades ago from a pile of it at the Deming Agate Shop (no longer exists, I've looked). I always get a kick out of showing this to school classes as part of a fluorescence demonstration. Cheers, Pete **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Nov 22 09:51:47 2007 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Nov 22 09:51:54 2007 Subject: Fwd: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone Farewell + other books Message-ID: I see that I sent this email just to Gary, but intended it to go to the whole List, so here it is! In a message dated 11/22/2007 10:29:56 AM Mountain Standard Time, Pmodreski writes: Gary, Thanks for the serial book reports and especially for the ordering info... I'd been telling a few people about the book, and we were still puzzling about the price one sees it for on amazon.com ($55 and up) and the website one finds for it on the 'net (not functioning). I wonder if that ordering address still works, being as the book was published in 2003? Its author Wayne Sutherland is with the Wyoming Geological Survey, in Laramie. P.S., I'll recommend another book to the List, which I just read and it's really good. "Hell Creek" (subtitle, "65 million years in the past, the journey begins"), by L.M. and M.S.A. Graziano, is about a physics department experiment that malfunctions (don't you hate it when that happens) and sends a paleontologist and friends back to the Cretaceous Period. Available through all the usual channels; well written AND well edited and proofed, good plot & characters, really keeps you interested, and for sure the best book I've read about what it would really be like to be wandering around on the margins of the Cretaceous Seaway, trying to find food while dodging the big nasty things that would like to eat you. (and not to be confused with a nonfiction book, _Hell Creek, Montana: America's Key to the Prehistoric Past_ (http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Creek-Montana-Americas-Prehistoric/dp/0312313934/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=U TF8&s=books&qid=1195752308&sr=1-2) by Lowell Dingus) Pete **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html message/rfc822 --- From silicawood at gmail.com Thu Nov 22 10:22:28 2007 From: silicawood at gmail.com (Rockhoundnut) Date: Thu Nov 22 10:22:32 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <001f01c82d21$b834d520$6501a8c0@astound.net> References: <001f01c82d21$b834d520$6501a8c0@astound.net> Message-ID: <54d4a88f0711221022k3fcf3698wf5513490f6c72709@mail.gmail.com> Hi all! I am currently driving a 2001 frontier crew cab with a canopy. Gets around pretty good in the hills and has a shorter wheel base (for those times you end up driving on the side of a mountain for a hour only to find out its a dead end!). We used to drive a 89 f250 pickup which was great - sleep in back and haul all the rocks you can collect! But for gas mileage reasons had to switch to the smaller truck. Anyhow, I'm a lot more selective these days - better to find a few nice specimens, rather than grabbing buckets of rocks that will just sit in my yard for years.;-) Brian On 11/22/07, jaybates wrote: > > Pete I have a water proof plastic container that holds my cooking stove > and > stuff that I use to extend the back space for sleeping without the back > seat > bottom and the passenger seat pushed forward. I am 6-1" and I can sleep > there fully extended on a foam pad. I have 186,000 miles and have had no > major repairs to my Jeep. Maybe I am just lucky, but my Jeep has been > totally reliable and not lived up to the supposedly poor repair record for > Jeeps. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 6:32 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > > > > > > Sounds like Chuck already thanked everyone for the responses, but the > > vehicle comments keep coming in... > > > > So, I have a Jeep Cherokee, 4.0-liter 6-cyl, which has been > very reliable > > and gets me everywhere and is fine for highway driving too (well, no it > doesn't > > feel like a BMW, but what do you want...) as well as for hauling stuff > > around. Mine is a '92 and has 235,000 miles on it, still doing great. > It doesn't > > quite have room for sleeping inside, though I have been known to curl > up > on > > the back seat in a pinch. I have Michelin LTX A/T tires and they seem > to > > hold up great too. > > > > Cheers, and happy Thanksgiving to all, > > Pete Modreski, Denver CO > > > > > > In a message dated 11/22/2007 12:01:15 AM Mountain Standard Time, > > litleval@ruralnetwork.net writes: > > > > > Charles Baran wrote: > > > Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > > > rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > > products. > > ( > http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- http://home.comcast.net/~silicawood/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 22 10:51:38 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 22 10:52:16 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <54d4a88f0711221022k3fcf3698wf5513490f6c72709@mail.gmail.com> References: <001f01c82d21$b834d520$6501a8c0@astound.net> <54d4a88f0711221022k3fcf3698wf5513490f6c72709@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4745CFBA.4070408@verizon.net> Rockhoundnut wrote: > Hi all! > > I am currently driving a 2001 frontier crew cab with a canopy. Gets around > pretty good in the hills and has a shorter wheel base (for those times you > end up driving on the side of a mountain for a hour only to find out its a > dead end!). In which case the Ford Focus wagon simply winds up going in reverse for several miles. I've become pretty good at that. If I would have known 7 years ago that I was going to move out here, I would have opted for the Subaru Forester. Don From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 22 10:56:45 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 22 10:56:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? In-Reply-To: <0f598f060559b5087ecbfed13a2205cd@lrream.com> References: <001801c82c24$0a477880$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <473E5FB000079DEA@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) <002c01c82c67$c01081a0$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> <0f598f060559b5087ecbfed13a2205cd@lrream.com> Message-ID: <4745D0ED.8050503@verizon.net> Lanny wrote: > A search of MinDex yielded the following references from the mineral > magazines over the past years. Although only one of these specifically > list the sizes of the quartz crystals, at least they indicate some > possibilities. Some of these articles also mention that there are > several localities on the island that produce zeolites and other minerals. I knew a fellow, a rather cantankerous and controversial man, recently deceased, named Frank Leans who collected zeolites from Hawaii. Unfortunately I forget which peak on which island produced the best material, but I remember seeing some very delicate zeolites, including a few relatively large, clear crystals on the end of thin needles like a marshmallows on sticks. The fact that I can't remember the specific locality or the specific species points to a sad fact. There is so much knowledge out there that is lost before it is written down. It is possible that Frank had published articles about the material, which I might find if I spent a lot of time searching, but that is contingent upon my, and a few other people, knowing that he had these specimens in the first place. best, Don From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Thu Nov 22 11:56:53 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Thu Nov 22 11:57:03 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone Farewell + other books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007601c82d41$d4b7d240$6b01a8c0@okapi> Thanks, Pete... I've found Southerland's email address and I'll pop him a note. Perhaps we can get him to wander over to the group and give some first-hand author comments, eh? Happy Thanksgiving, All! Gary > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Pmodreski@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:52 AM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Fwd: [Rockhounds] Yellowstone Farewell + other books > > > I see that I sent this email just to Gary, but intended it to > go to the whole List, so here it is!.... From efkern at earthlink.net Thu Nov 22 12:08:44 2007 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Thu Nov 22 12:08:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oops, how forgetful of me References: <001b01c82d27$1510dbe0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <001901c82d43$7ce5e8c0$fefff604@TheBlackAdder> Thanks Axel, But actually it's Gobble-gobble-gobble-gobble. Stay well, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: Axel Emmermann To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 8:45 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Oops, how forgetful of me happy Thanksgiving to all! Cluckcluckcluck ;-))) Axel Emmermann European Regional VP of the Fluorescent Mineral Society http://www.uvminerals.org/ My website:http://users.pandora.be/axel.emmerman/home/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Thu Nov 22 12:31:27 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Thu Nov 22 12:31:40 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? In-Reply-To: <0f598f060559b5087ecbfed13a2205cd@lrream.com> References: <001801c82c24$0a477880$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <473E5FB000079DEA@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> <002c01c82c67$c01081a0$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> <0f598f060559b5087ecbfed13a2205cd@lrream.com> Message-ID: <47434F2E0002D822@n016.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Wow, Lanny, you certainly found enough evidence to prove me completely wrong! Mea culpa. Thanks for the research. Now I have new places to look for something other than basalt! Aloha, Kitty At 07:46 AM 11/22/2007, you wrote: >A search of MinDex yielded the following references from the mineral >magazines over the past years. Although only one of these >specifically list the sizes of the quartz crystals, at least they >indicate some possibilities. Some of these articles also mention >that there are several localities on the island that produce >zeolites and other minerals. > >Regards, > >Lanny >---- > >Hawaii Lapidary Society, 1973, Hawaiian Gems and Their Locations: >Rocks & Minerals 10/1973:48-10, pp. 638,63 > >"... clear hexagonal quartz crystals have been found in the ravines >draining Mount Olomanu, in the red washes in the Keolu hill >subdivision (above Kaelepulu pond) and in the HC&D quarry, above Kailua." >------- >Cook, Robert B., 2004, Connoisseur's Choice, Scolecite, Pune >(Poona), Maharashtra, India: Rocks & Minerals 7-8/2004:79-4, pp. 248-251 >Quartz with aragonite, pyrite, quartz, scolecite is found in the >Kapaa Quarry, Kailua, Oahu > >----- > >White, John Sampson, 1984, Minerals of the Puu o Ehu Quarry, Hawaii: >Mineralogical Record 3-4/1984:15-2, pp. 95-97 > >All micro minerals: chabazite, epistilbite, laumontite, hematite(?), >heulandite, nontronite, quartz > >------ > >De Carlo, Eric Heinen and Sawada, Edward, 2001, Karst Calcite >Deposits in Fossil Back Reef and Aeolian Dune Environments, Laie, >O'ahu, Hawai'i: Mineral News, 5/2001:17-5, pp. 1,6-8 > >quarry in caldera of Koolau volcano: pyrite and quartz (no info on size) > >The article mostly discusses the back reef formations that produce a >karst environment. These are quarried and caves are often >encountered that contain various cave formations and calcite >crystals. The Laie quarry in this article produced fine specimens, >but is now worked out and closed. > >----- >An article in the Lapidary Journal (LJ is not indexed in MinDex) >lists other mineral localities on the islands. > >Bragaw, James N. and Cregmile, Gary L., 1975, Rockhounding--Hawaiian >Style: 3/1975, pp. 1822-1828 > >Small quartz crystals and quartz-lined geodes in Enchanted Lakes >area, Keolu Hills, also zeolites in cavities in the basalts. Quartz >crystals to 1 inch in Kapaa Quarry, Kailua town. The article >describes several locations reached from Honolulu that produce >gypsum roses, zeolites, and more. > >On Nov 21, 2007, at 9:55 AM, Earl R. Verbeek wrote: > >>Kitty wrote: >>The most unusual exception is fluorescent calcite which is found >>in some lava caves, and we believe that this is caused by rainwater >>filtering through coral that was covered by lava and then elevated >>by volcanic activity millions of years ago. >> >>Hi Kitty, >> >>Certainly a possibility, but why not calcium derived from >>weathering of plagioclase and carbon dioxide supplied from >>descending groundwater? You have all the ingredients right >>there. Atmospheric carbon dioxide figures heavily in soil >>chemistry/mineralogy (Hi Don -- anything to add here?) and probably >>does in near-surface mineral formation in open spaces in rock as >>well. I'm not sure you need the coral. >> >> Cheers- Earl >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jr50wv at yahoo.com Thu Nov 22 12:36:37 2007 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Thu Nov 22 12:36:41 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz and cars Message-ID: <467539.18935.qm@web56311.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi All: Congrats, Axel ! No reply necessary. And welcoming injured or ill rockhounds back isn't off topic! I drive an extended cab Ford Ranger 4x4, I'm on the 4th one now. For extended trips we put a topper on the bed, it has windows that open up so you can get to the front of the bed without crawling in from the tailgate end. At one point we built a plywood false floor so we could put things we didn't need often underneath...but you couldn't get to them without emptying a lot of stuff out first. THis rig only gets 15-16 mpg, though, which is pretty disappointing. I'm expecting to change to a 1-ton 4x4 extended cab truck with a diesel engine soon, for the towing capacity and better mileage. Yes, that's correct, a F-350 diesel gets better mileage than my Ranger, which I know because my brother has one and rides me about getting better fuel mileage with his power-stroke than I do with my V6 4 liter. I'll be moving around more when I retire, and plan to tow a trailer/5th-wheel to move from the Appalachian mountains to the Arizona mountains and back, depending on weather. That quartz crystal, lots of money for a 1 cm rock!!! I agree that it looks more like a Herkimer than an Asian rock to me. JR --------------------------------- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Thu Nov 22 13:34:10 2007 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Thu Nov 22 13:34:12 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles Message-ID: I must also concur with the GMC/Chevy Safari/Astro van. We had a 95 Safari AWD Extended model for many years. We took it everywhere and the only mishap was at Rhyolite NV, the back bumper scrapped on one the roads in the and we toasted our trailer light socket. Did anyone know that a full size mattress fits between the wheel wells? It also left enough room at the end for two 5 day coolers. I also loved the Dutch doors on the back. We'd put a tarps on the end back before the cool tents they have now. There is also enough room at the "step" on the side slider door for shoes. We've since graduated to a 1979 Prowler 16ft trailer (hey don't laugh, we only paid $300 for it!) and a 2003 Ford F150 4WD. As soon as the boy moves out, it's time for a F350 and 5th wheel with a real bathroom! I have a propane shower now that I can't live without, most of the standard shower enclosures that are available now aren't worth the money. Too flimsy up here in the East wind we get here in the Portland Oregon area. Dawn Fredricks Portland Oregon --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Thu Nov 22 14:34:39 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Thu Nov 22 14:34:41 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles (Subaru) In-Reply-To: <4745CFBA.4070408@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com> > If I would have known 7 years ago that I was going to move out here, I > would have opted for the Subaru Forester. Not a bad choice, but check the cargo capacity... After wearing out a 1991 Subaru Loyale wagon (original owner, it had 100 CF if I recall right), and shopping around, 1.5 years ago I ended up buying a nearly new Subaru Outback wagon (97 CF I think). Both of them go almost everywhere. Fine ground clearance and cargo space for the size and MPGs. Too bad no granny gear in the 4WD or they could climb a lot steeper. Too bad they rounded all the sides and edges to give up more cargo capacity. Now, the new Outback is a lot plusher, quieter, and feature-rich, but it gets lower MPGs (only 25-27 not 29-30). Long ago I bought an old 2-ton 360 V8 Jeep Wagoneer, green beast, I called it Triceratops. It could go anywhere, except deep snow, so long as the tranny shift linkage didn't bounce disconnected... Now my spare vehicle is an older Toyota pickup truck, "power nothing", but oh man can it handle serious 4WD. However, while I use it occasionally for hauling "stuff" around, I don't really NEED it for rockhounding! Cheers, Alan Silverstein From nospam at orerockon.com Thu Nov 22 14:30:33 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Thu Nov 22 14:39:42 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? In-Reply-To: <0f598f060559b5087ecbfed13a2205cd@lrream.com> References: <001801c82c24$0a477880$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <473E5FB000079DEA@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> <002c01c82c67$c01081a0$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> <0f598f060559b5087ecbfed13a2205cd@lrream.com> Message-ID: <200711222239.lAMMdedB012632@bubbleator.drizzle.com> My sister lives in Kailua :) Therefore we will be looking for any local quarries between Dec. 26th and the 31st ;) At 09:46 AM 11/22/2007, you wrote: >A search of MinDex yielded the following references from the mineral >magazines over the past years. Although only one of these >specifically list the sizes of the quartz crystals, at least they >indicate some possibilities. Some of these articles also mention >that there are several localities on the island that produce >zeolites and other minerals. > >Regards, > >Lanny >---- Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Nov 22 19:12:57 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 22 19:13:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have several slightly radioactive marbles bought through eBay and they are amazingly fluorescent. Phosphorescent glow continues to visible for several seconds at least. Wows kids of all ages, including me. Gotta be real kryptonite, so superman could be in danger. LOL!!! Glenn From: Pmodreski@aol.com see _http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/density.htm_ (http://www.lenntech.com/Periodic-chart-elements/density.htm) ) and P.P.S., as soon as I dig it out, I should take & circulate a picture of MY FAVORITE real (I have it & can hold it in my hand) but non-natural (artificially made) specimen, a clear chunk of uranium-bearing glass, vivid yellow-green and fluoresces to beat the band, even from the longwave UV in daylight, and is my best ever candidate for a for-sure kryptonite look-alike. I bought it decades ago from a pile of it at the Deming Agate Shop (no longer exists, I've looked). I always get a kick out of showing this to school classes as part of a fluorescence demonstration. Cheers, Pete _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE! http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Nov 22 19:18:05 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Nov 22 19:18:37 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? References: Message-ID: <47464664.35DF@Tomaszewski.net> Quartz crystals from Hawaii are not unknown. In reviewing the rocks I collected in Hawaii a few years ago I found a few 3-7mm chunks of quartz imbedded in basalt. From what was exposed they appeared to be formed as crystals. Crystals up to 2cm have been reported in clusters (up to 30cm) from the Kapaa Quarry, Kailua, Oahu, Hawaii, associated with scolecite, pyrite, and aragonite, in basalt. Mindat also lists the Puu o Ehu Quarry as a source of quartz (and seven other minerals, including hematite). Both locations have authoritive references. Checking Mindat for locations in Hawaii turns up 35 documented mineral collecting locations, but not OLOWALU. Kreigh RicSchager@aol.com wrote: > > Saw this quartz crystal on eBay being sold by a reputable seller. It sold > for a great price for a 1/2" quartz crystal, as if it really is rare and real. > But I didn't think that quartz like this exists in claimed location. My > question to you fellow rockers, do you think it is really from Hawaii??? > > _RARE LOCALE Quartz Crystal OLOWALU, HAWAII - (eBay item 300168316082 end > time Nov-08-07 18:49:25 PST)_ > (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300168316082&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123) > > Rich. (mailto:rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Nov 22 20:15:08 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Nov 22 20:14:59 2007 Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> Axel (and Pete), I think Density is the correct term, but I liked Specific Mass because it implies it is independent of the gravity of whatever planet or moon you might be on. Specific Gravity ties you to one planet (Earth). Element 126 is supposed to be in the middle of an 'island of stability' in the periodic table where only 184 neutrons would be needed to balance the 126 protons. Both are 'magic' numbers leading to an especially dense packing of the nucleus because the binding energy of each nucleon is at a local minimum. The unusually compact nucleus should allow for a more compact electron shell as well. Besides, Kryptonite meteorites were recovered from the ocean bottom in several comics, so it does not float. And then 'real' Kryptonite was found, matching the chemical formula given in later Superman stories http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=5105 but it turned out to be white. Go figure. BTW, I worked at a comic book store for over 10 years in my past. Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? > > Pete wrote: > > > I guess you clarified this for me, Kreigh, I was still > > puzzling over what "specific mass" meant. Wondered if that > > was just a European term; in truth, I'd never heard that > > phrase before. Evidently, you and Axel are meaning the same > > thing as "specific gravity" by it. I didn't want to > > question Axel too closely about this, he's still recovering > > and may not be up to too sharp interrogation. > > Axel's reply > Yo Pete, thanks for the consideration but I'm already strong enough to > change my own diapers ;-)))) > Yeah, I meant "specific gravity" but the long-term effects of deep narcosis > still haunt me, I guess. > Funny term BTW. I would interpret the term as "the gravity measured at one > place". Like gravity on the moon is only 1/6th of that on earth. > Specific mass would mean the mass that is represented by 1 cubic centimeter > of a substance in grams/cm3. > Apparently linguistic logic will only take you so far. I usually don't make > much mistakes like that but you got it figured out. No harm done ;-))) > > Kreigh wrote: > > Kryptonite is supposedly element 126, which would probably > > put it around 25. > > > > Axel's reply: > Hm, I think it will be less, Kreigh. Although a scientist should review my > babblings I'm pretty sure that the following is reasonably approximately > perhaps a bit true: > > Specific gravity of the elements culminates around element 76 which is > Osmium. The osmium nucleus has the most "pull" on it's electron mantle of > all elements. As a result the atoms shrinks and thus becomes heavier. > > This electromagnetic attraction between nucleus and electrons depends on: > > A: the number of protons AKA which element is it. The more protons, the more > pull. > > B: A by proxy (1) the number of neutrons needed to stabilize the nucleus > rises disproportionately with the numbers of protons. If this number gets > really big, the "attractive force per volume" of the nucleus drops. Size > seems to matter whit matter too. A voluminous nucleus packs less positive > charge per cubic femtometer ;-))) > > C: A by proxy (2). The more protons, the more electrons. Electrons repel > each other. Inner electron shells repel the outer ones thereby "bloating" > the atom or ion. They also shield off the positive attraction from the > nucleus which enhances the effect even more. > > So this is why Iridium, although it has more mass than osmium (a proton, an > electron and some neutrons), has a slightly lower spec.grav. > > Also: the gigantic number of electrons swarming around the nucleus of > element 126 would allow almost no "leakage" of electropositive attraction > from the nucleus to get through. As a result, crystals of Kryptonite would > be VERY loosely stacked making the crystal light... VERY light (compare SG > of calcite to that of aragonite. The are both CaCO3 but the way that the > molecules are stacked determines the SG) > > Taking all this into account I would not be surprised if Kryptonite were to > float on water. Spec. Gravity below 1.0. > > There's a lot more to it and my explanation is a blatant simplification of > the phenomenon but hey... I'm no rocket scientist ;-))) > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Thu Nov 22 22:51:40 2007 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Thu Nov 22 22:51:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles / Virgin Valley Fire Opal's References: <774530.41217.qm@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com><002201c82cd5$65bc6200$675fe842@Titans> <47452D8A.9060806@arczip.com> Message-ID: <005d01c82d9d$5046ed00$6f5fe842@Titans> Chuck, Never to late to start getting the extra's you will be needing if you know for sure what you will be driving in ten years, the ten years will rush by leaving you wondering where it all went to so fast.....our planning started in the 70's and are well stocked with what we could possibly need. With Camper loaded on the F250 in July we made it to Virgin Valley and did dig up some black Opal with Red Fire at the Rainbow, latter in the fall to the last dig at Spencer where we found enough fire opal to fill a eight oz. coffee cup. At both digs we had what I believe was outstanding help from some of the nicest managers and owners you will ever meet.....were going back for sure....God willing. In all we recorded an average of 18 M.P.G. with the Diesel as its the big one Ford came out with, we did crest a pass at 2,300 R.P.M. doing 60 M.P.H. right to the top...( Cabbage Patch hill, North of LaGrande Oregon ), if your ever in the Vale Oregon area drop by and well go find some rock and minerals to be happy about . Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:19 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > Wayne; you are my hero! Kathy and I have got 10 more years to go to catch > up with you and then maybe we can ditch out Suzuki and get a civilized > rig. Take care and have a great Thanksgiving. Chuck... > > Wayne Rasmussen wrote: > >> I first started watching the ground for rocks long years ago in a 1949 >> V.W. bug, an outstanding rut and hole climber with the 36 H.P. engine. >> This year we are now totally equipped with a new F250, the big Diesel >> motor, Tractor air horn, overload air sacks >> and several other wants. A new 38 foot Snowbird 5th wheel with the big >> generator for longer stays and a new Backwoods camper with all the >> goodies for the rough country, a new Suzuki 700 A.T.V. 4x4, that turns >> out to be too powerful for my needs at 70 years old, the locals call me >> Mr. Kamikaze. >> >> We love this list and all that are on it, thanks lots people. >> >> Wayne >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:34 AM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Vehicles >> >> >>> I use a 2000 GMC Safari (same as the Chevy Astro) with AWD. It's built >>> on a 3/4 ton truck chassis, and has a 4.3 L V-6 and towing package. It >>> pulls my 25 ft travel trailer easily, and (without the trailer) can go >>> off-road or up nasty mining roads. With the 2nd & 3rd seats removed >>> (they come out easily) you can haul a lot of rocks! >>> Jim Daly >>> >>> Charles Baran wrote: >>> Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go >>> rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My >>> wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 >>> and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no >>> problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I >>> don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------- >>> Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See >>> how. >>> >>> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >>> multipart/alternative >>> text/plain (text body -- kept) >>> text/html >>> --- >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>> >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From pmodreski at aol.com Fri Nov 23 07:03:18 2007 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Nov 23 07:03:24 2007 Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} In-Reply-To: <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> I remember those news stories about the mineral resembling the formula of "kyptonite" from the comics, in fact I'm sure we discussed here on Rockhounds.? I thought it was really really a stretch to try to make that connection.? Plus, as I'm sure we discussed, kryptonite to properly have all its unique radioactive powers on Superman, should have been a chemical element, not just a chemical compound (a mineral with a complex chemical formula). And also as I'm sure we and others noted, minerals normally end in "ite", but chemical elements names normally end in "ium".? So it could have been the element from planet Krypton, kryptonium, which could be?present in the mineral kryptonite.? There, I've solved it all.?? :? )? Pete -----Original Message----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 9:15 pm Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} Axel (and Pete), I think Density is the correct term, but I liked Specific Mass because it implies it is independent of the gravity of whatever planet or moon you might be on. Specific Gravity ties you to one planet (Earth). Element 126 is supposed to be in the middle of an 'island of stability' in the periodic table where only 184 neutrons would be needed to balance the 126 protons. Both are 'magic' numbers leading to an especially dense packing of the nucleus because the binding energy of each nucleon is at a local minimum. The unusually compact nucleus should allow for a more compact electron shell as well. Besides, Kryptonite meteorites were recovered from the ocean bottom in several comics, so it does not float. And then 'real' Kryptonite was found, matching the chemical formula given in later Superman stories http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=5105 but it turned out to be white. Go figure. BTW, I worked at a comic book store for over 10 years in my past. Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? > > Pete wrote: > > > I guess you clarified this for me, Kreigh, I was still > > puzzling over what "specific mass" meant. Wondered if that > > was just a European term; in truth, I'd never heard that > > phrase before. Evidently, you and Axel are meaning the same > > thing as "specific gravity" by it. I didn't want to > > question Axel too closely about this, he's still recovering > > and may not be up to too sharp interrogation. > > Axel's reply > Yo Pete, thanks for the consideration but I'm already strong enough to > change my own diapers ;-)))) > Yeah, I meant "specific gravity" but the long-term effects of deep narcosis > still haunt me, I guess. > Funny term BTW. I would interpret the term as "the gravity measured at one > place". Like gravity on the moon is only 1/6th of that on earth. > Specific mass would mean the mass that is represented by 1 cubic centimeter > of a substance in grams/cm3. > Apparently linguistic logic will only take you so far. I usually don't make > much mistakes like that but you got it figured out. No harm done ;-))) > > Kreigh wrote: > > Kryptonite is supposedly element 126, which would probably > > put it around 25. > > > > Axel's reply: > Hm, I think it will be less, Kreigh. Although a scientist should review my > babblings I'm pretty sure that the following is reasonably approximately > perhaps a bit true: > > Specific gravity of the elements culminates around element 76 which is > Osmium. The osmium nucleus has the most "pull" on it's electron mantle of > all elements. As a result the atoms shrinks and thus becomes heavier. > > This electromagnetic attraction between nucleus and electrons depends on: > > A: the number of protons AKA which element is it. The more protons, the more > pull. > > B: A by proxy (1) the number of neutrons needed to stabilize the nucleus > rises disproportionately with the numbers of protons. If this number gets > really big, the "attractive force per volume" of the nucleus drops. Size > seems to matter whit matter too. A voluminous nucleus packs less positive > charge per cubic femtometer ;-))) > > C: A by proxy (2). The more protons, the more electrons. Electrons repel > each other. Inner electron shells repel the outer ones thereby "bloating" > the atom or ion. They also shield off the positive attraction from the > nucleus which enhances the effect even more. > > So this is why Iridium, although it has more mass than osmium (a proton, an > electron and some neutrons), has a slightly lower spec.grav. > > Also: the gigantic number of electrons swarming around the nucleus of > element 126 would allow almost no "leakage" of electropositive attraction > from the nucleus to get through. As a result, crystals of Kryptonite would > be VERY loosely stacked making the crystal light... VERY light (compare SG > of calcite to that of aragonite. The are both CaCO3 but the way that the > molecules are stacked determines the SG) > > Taking all this into account I would not be surprised if Kryptonite were to > float on water. Spec. Gravity below 1.0. > > There's a lot more to it and my explanation is a blatant simplification of > the phenomenon but hey... I'm no rocket scientist ;-))) > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Nov 23 10:18:26 2007 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Nov 23 10:15:30 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> <8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000801c82dfd$3e648510$860da118@feldsparflash> I know we have discussed the reason most minerals end in... ite. However, I have failed to enter the reason in my memory bank which I quickly noted when one of our 6 year old junior rockhounds asked me, "why do all minerals end in ite?". Please help! Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} > I remember those news stories about the mineral resembling the formula of "kyptonite" from the comics, in fact I'm sure we discussed here on Rockhounds.? I thought it was really really a stretch to try to make that connection.? Plus, as I'm sure we discussed, kryptonite to properly have all its unique radioactive powers on Superman, should have been a chemical element, not just a chemical compound (a mineral with a complex chemical formula). > > And also as I'm sure we and others noted, minerals normally end in "ite", but chemical elements names normally end in "ium".? So it could have been the element from planet Krypton, kryptonium, which could be?present in the mineral kryptonite.? There, I've solved it all.?? :? )? > > Pete > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 9:15 pm > Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} > > > > Axel (and Pete), > > I think Density is the correct term, but I liked Specific Mass because > it implies it is independent of the gravity of whatever planet or moon > you might be on. Specific Gravity ties you to one planet (Earth). > > Element 126 is supposed to be in the middle of an 'island of stability' > in the periodic table where only 184 neutrons would be needed to balance > the 126 protons. Both are 'magic' numbers leading to an especially dense > packing of the nucleus because the binding energy of each nucleon is at > a local minimum. > > The unusually compact nucleus should allow for a more compact electron > shell as well. Besides, Kryptonite meteorites were recovered from the > ocean bottom in several comics, so it does not float. > > And then 'real' Kryptonite was found, matching the chemical formula > given in later Superman stories > > http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=5105 > > but it turned out to be white. Go figure. > > BTW, I worked at a comic book store for over 10 years in my past. > > Kreigh > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? > > > > Pete wrote: > > > > > I guess you clarified this for me, Kreigh, I was still > > > puzzling over what "specific mass" meant. Wondered if that > > > was just a European term; in truth, I'd never heard that > > > phrase before. Evidently, you and Axel are meaning the same > > > thing as "specific gravity" by it. I didn't want to > > > question Axel too closely about this, he's still recovering > > > and may not be up to too sharp interrogation. > > > > Axel's reply > > Yo Pete, thanks for the consideration but I'm already strong enough to > > change my own diapers ;-)))) > > Yeah, I meant "specific gravity" but the long-term effects of deep narcosis > > still haunt me, I guess. > > Funny term BTW. I would interpret the term as "the gravity measured at one > > place". Like gravity on the moon is only 1/6th of that on earth. > > Specific mass would mean the mass that is represented by 1 cubic centimeter > > of a substance in grams/cm3. > > Apparently linguistic logic will only take you so far. I usually don't make > > much mistakes like that but you got it figured out. No harm done ;-))) > > > > Kreigh wrote: > > > Kryptonite is supposedly element 126, which would probably > > > put it around 25. > > > > > > > Axel's reply: > > Hm, I think it will be less, Kreigh. Although a scientist should review my > > babblings I'm pretty sure that the following is reasonably approximately > > perhaps a bit true: > > > > Specific gravity of the elements culminates around element 76 which is > > Osmium. The osmium nucleus has the most "pull" on it's electron mantle of > > all elements. As a result the atoms shrinks and thus becomes heavier. > > > > This electromagnetic attraction between nucleus and electrons depends on: > > > > A: the number of protons AKA which element is it. The more protons, the more > > pull. > > > > B: A by proxy (1) the number of neutrons needed to stabilize the nucleus > > rises disproportionately with the numbers of protons. If this number gets > > really big, the "attractive force per volume" of the nucleus drops. Size > > seems to matter whit matter too. A voluminous nucleus packs less positive > > charge per cubic femtometer ;-))) > > > > C: A by proxy (2). The more protons, the more electrons. Electrons repel > > each other. Inner electron shells repel the outer ones thereby "bloating" > > the atom or ion. They also shield off the positive attraction from the > > nucleus which enhances the effect even more. > > > > So this is why Iridium, although it has more mass than osmium (a proton, an > > electron and some neutrons), has a slightly lower spec.grav. > > > > Also: the gigantic number of electrons swarming around the nucleus of > > element 126 would allow almost no "leakage" of electropositive attraction > > from the nucleus to get through. As a result, crystals of Kryptonite would > > be VERY loosely stacked making the crystal light... VERY light (compare SG > > of calcite to that of aragonite. The are both CaCO3 but the way that the > > molecules are stacked determines the SG) > > > > Taking all this into account I would not be surprised if Kryptonite were to > > float on water. Spec. Gravity below 1.0. > > > > There's a lot more to it and my explanation is a blatant simplification of > > the phenomenon but hey... I'm no rocket scientist ;-))) > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lanny at lrream.com Fri Nov 23 10:19:50 2007 From: lanny at lrream.com (Lanny) Date: Fri Nov 23 10:19:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? In-Reply-To: <47434F2E0002D822@n016.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) References: <001801c82c24$0a477880$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <473E5FB000079DEA@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> <002c01c82c67$c01081a0$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> <0f598f060559b5087ecbfed13a2205cd@lrream.com> <47434F2E0002D822@n016.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Message-ID: Looking out the window at the heavy frost covered roofs (lows in the low teens, highs in the low 30s) and mountains turning whiter each day, I'm jealous. Regards, Lanny On Nov 22, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > Wow, Lanny, you certainly found enough evidence to prove me completely > wrong! Mea culpa. Thanks for the research. Now I have new places to > look for something other than basalt! > > Aloha, Kitty > > At 07:46 AM 11/22/2007, you wrote: >> A search of MinDex yielded the following references from the mineral >> magazines over the past years. Although only one of these >> specifically list the sizes of the quartz crystals, at least they >> indicate some possibilities. Some of these articles also mention that >> there are several localities on the island that produce zeolites and >> other minerals. >> >> Regards, >> >> Lanny >> ---- >> ... From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Nov 23 10:50:49 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Nov 23 10:50:53 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals In-Reply-To: <000801c82dfd$3e648510$860da118@feldsparflash> References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP><474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net><8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> <000801c82dfd$3e648510$860da118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <002c01c82e01$c42b82d0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> They don't ;-))) Most of the more recent names do but not all. Celestine, diamond, copper, dioptase, ice (hihi), pyrope, spodumene... You can't expect nomenclature rules that have been made up over more than 5 millennia to be consistent. I hope you're not completely traumatized now? Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Carolyn Reynard > Verzonden: vrijdag 23 november 2007 19:18 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals > > I know we have discussed the reason most minerals end in... > ite. However, I have failed to enter the reason in my memory > bank which I quickly noted when one of our 6 year old junior > rockhounds asked me, "why do all minerals end in ite?". Please help! > Carolyn Reynard > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:03 AM > Subject: Re: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} > > > > I remember those news stories about the mineral resembling > the formula of > "kyptonite" from the comics, in fact I'm sure we discussed here on > Rockhounds.? I thought it was really really a stretch to try > to make that > connection.? Plus, as I'm sure we discussed, kryptonite to > properly have all > its unique radioactive powers on Superman, should have been a chemical > element, not just a chemical compound (a mineral with a > complex chemical > formula). > > > > And also as I'm sure we and others noted, minerals normally > end in "ite", > but chemical elements names normally end in "ium".? So it > could have been > the element from planet Krypton, kryptonium, which could > be?present in the > mineral kryptonite.? There, I've solved it all.?? :? )? > > > > Pete > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > > > Sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 9:15 pm > > Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} > > > > > > > > Axel (and Pete), > > > > I think Density is the correct term, but I liked Specific > Mass because > > it implies it is independent of the gravity of whatever > planet or moon > > you might be on. Specific Gravity ties you to one planet (Earth). > > > > Element 126 is supposed to be in the middle of an 'island > of stability' > > in the periodic table where only 184 neutrons would be > needed to balance > > the 126 protons. Both are 'magic' numbers leading to an > especially dense > > packing of the nucleus because the binding energy of each > nucleon is at > > a local minimum. > > > > The unusually compact nucleus should allow for a more > compact electron > > shell as well. Besides, Kryptonite meteorites were > recovered from the > > ocean bottom in several comics, so it does not float. > > > > And then 'real' Kryptonite was found, matching the chemical formula > > given in later Superman stories > > > > http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=5105 > > > > but it turned out to be white. Go figure. > > > > BTW, I worked at a comic book store for over 10 years in my past. > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? > > > > > > Pete wrote: > > > > > > > I guess you clarified this for me, Kreigh, I was still > > > > puzzling over what "specific mass" meant. Wondered if that > > > > was just a European term; in truth, I'd never heard that > > > > phrase before. Evidently, you and Axel are meaning the same > > > > thing as "specific gravity" by it. I didn't want to > > > > question Axel too closely about this, he's still recovering > > > > and may not be up to too sharp interrogation. > > > > > > Axel's reply > > > Yo Pete, thanks for the consideration but I'm already > strong enough to > > > change my own diapers ;-)))) > > > Yeah, I meant "specific gravity" but the long-term effects of deep > narcosis > > > still haunt me, I guess. > > > Funny term BTW. I would interpret the term as "the > gravity measured at > one > > > place". Like gravity on the moon is only 1/6th of that on earth. > > > Specific mass would mean the mass that is represented by 1 cubic > centimeter > > > of a substance in grams/cm3. > > > Apparently linguistic logic will only take you so far. I > usually don't > make > > > much mistakes like that but you got it figured out. No > harm done ;-))) > > > > > > Kreigh wrote: > > > > Kryptonite is supposedly element 126, which would probably > > > > put it around 25. > > > > > > > > > > Axel's reply: > > > Hm, I think it will be less, Kreigh. Although a scientist > should review > my > > > babblings I'm pretty sure that the following is > reasonably approximately > > > perhaps a bit true: > > > > > > Specific gravity of the elements culminates around > element 76 which is > > > Osmium. The osmium nucleus has the most "pull" on it's > electron mantle > of > > > all elements. As a result the atoms shrinks and thus > becomes heavier. > > > > > > This electromagnetic attraction between nucleus and > electrons depends > on: > > > > > > A: the number of protons AKA which element is it. The > more protons, the > more > > > pull. > > > > > > B: A by proxy (1) the number of neutrons needed to > stabilize the nucleus > > > rises disproportionately with the numbers of protons. If > this number > gets > > > really big, the "attractive force per volume" of the > nucleus drops. Size > > > seems to matter whit matter too. A voluminous nucleus packs less > positive > > > charge per cubic femtometer ;-))) > > > > > > C: A by proxy (2). The more protons, the more electrons. > Electrons repel > > > each other. Inner electron shells repel the outer ones thereby > "bloating" > > > the atom or ion. They also shield off the positive > attraction from the > > > nucleus which enhances the effect even more. > > > > > > So this is why Iridium, although it has more mass than > osmium (a proton, > an > > > electron and some neutrons), has a slightly lower spec.grav. > > > > > > Also: the gigantic number of electrons swarming around > the nucleus of > > > element 126 would allow almost no "leakage" of electropositive > attraction > > > from the nucleus to get through. As a result, crystals of > Kryptonite > would > > > be VERY loosely stacked making the crystal light... VERY > light (compare > SG > > > of calcite to that of aragonite. The are both CaCO3 but > the way that the > > > molecules are stacked determines the SG) > > > > > > Taking all this into account I would not be surprised if > Kryptonite were > to > > > float on water. Spec. Gravity below 1.0. > > > > > > There's a lot more to it and my explanation is a blatant > simplification > of > > > the phenomenon but hey... I'm no rocket scientist ;-))) > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free > AOL Mail! - > http://mail.aol.com > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Nov 23 10:56:11 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Nov 23 10:56:14 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002d01c82e02$83e6c350$6401a8c0@AxelHP> > I have several slightly radioactive marbles bought through > eBay and they are amazingly fluorescent. Phosphorescent glow > continues to visible for several seconds at least. Hi Glen, That's weird, I never noticed phophorescence in my vaseline glass. It IS green under UV, yes? Axel From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Nov 23 11:01:30 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Nov 23 11:01:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano activity (was) Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? In-Reply-To: References: <001801c82c24$0a477880$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <473E5FB000079DEA@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> <002c01c82c67$c01081a0$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> <0f598f060559b5087ecbfed13a2205cd@lrream.com> <47434F2E0002D822@n016.sc0.he.tucows.com> Message-ID: <473491750019D378@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) It got down to 50 degrees F last night where we live, and this morning it's 69. There are patches of snow visible on Mauna Kea, left from snow that covered the summit down to the 9000 foot level a week ago. Lava from Pu'u O'o has not been going into the ocean for some time, but it's spreading overland from a fissure that opened---and is named---July 21. So far no homes are threatened. There are some good pictures at the following site: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/images.html It's worth clicking on the pictures to see them full-size, and you can click again for slight further enlargement. If you click on Image Archives, you can look back by year to 1997. Some of those include spectacular views of lava going into the ocean. Just for the heck of it, I just clicked on October 2002 and there are some real goodies. Happy day-after-Thanksgiving, and aloha, Kitty At 08:19 AM 11/23/2007, you wrote: >Looking out the window at the heavy frost covered roofs (lows in the >low teens, highs in the low 30s) and mountains turning whiter each >day, I'm jealous. > >Regards, > >Lanny > >On Nov 22, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: > >>Wow, Lanny, you certainly found enough evidence to prove me >>completely wrong! Mea culpa. Thanks for the research. Now I have >>new places to look for something other than basalt! >> >>Aloha, Kitty >> >>At 07:46 AM 11/22/2007, you wrote: >>>A search of MinDex yielded the following references from the >>>mineral magazines over the past years. Although only one of these >>>specifically list the sizes of the quartz crystals, at least they >>>indicate some possibilities. Some of these articles also mention >>>that there are several localities on the island that produce >>>zeolites and other minerals. >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>Lanny From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Nov 23 11:17:43 2007 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Nov 23 11:17:09 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals References: <001801c82c24$0a477880$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <473E5FB000079DEA@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> <002c01c82c67$c01081a0$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> <0f598f060559b5087ecbfed13a2205cd@lrream.com> <47434F2E0002D822@n016.sc0.he.tucows.com> <473491750019D378@n120.sc0.he.tucows.com> Message-ID: <002601c82e05$860a3830$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> It got down in the 20's this morning. We had rain yesterday so the grooves in the tail gate's liner was wet. This morning I saw something I have never seen before - ice spears. There were crystals of ice sticking up at various angles as much as 8 cm long ranging from about 5 to 10 mm wide. Most were transparent and showed growth patterns via rows of tiny air bubbles. I took some pictures (they haven't been downloaded yet). That is the only way I could preserve them! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano activity (was) Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? > It got down to 50 degrees F last night where we live, and this morning > it's 69. There are patches of snow visible on Mauna Kea, left from snow > that covered the summit down to the 9000 foot level a week ago. > > Lava from Pu'u O'o has not been going into the ocean for some time, but > it's spreading overland from a fissure that opened---and is named---July > 21. So far no homes are threatened. There are some good pictures at the > following site: > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/images.html > It's worth clicking on the pictures to see them full-size, and you can > click again for slight further enlargement. If you click on Image > Archives, you can look back by year to 1997. Some of those include > spectacular views of lava going into the ocean. Just for the heck of it, > I just clicked on October 2002 and there are some real goodies. > > Happy day-after-Thanksgiving, and aloha, Kitty > > At 08:19 AM 11/23/2007, you wrote: >>Looking out the window at the heavy frost covered roofs (lows in the low >>teens, highs in the low 30s) and mountains turning whiter each day, I'm >>jealous. >> >>Regards, >> >>Lanny >> >>On Nov 22, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: >> >>>Wow, Lanny, you certainly found enough evidence to prove me completely >>>wrong! Mea culpa. Thanks for the research. Now I have new places to >>>look for something other than basalt! >>> >>>Aloha, Kitty >>> >>>At 07:46 AM 11/22/2007, you wrote: >>>>A search of MinDex yielded the following references from the mineral >>>>magazines over the past years. Although only one of these specifically >>>>list the sizes of the quartz crystals, at least they indicate some >>>>possibilities. Some of these articles also mention that there are >>>>several localities on the island that produce zeolites and other >>>>minerals. >>>> >>>>Regards, >>>> >>>>Lanny > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Nov 23 11:25:59 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Nov 23 11:26:02 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals In-Reply-To: <002c01c82e01$c42b82d0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> <8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> <000801c82dfd$3e648510$860da118@feldsparflash> <002c01c82e01$c42b82d0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: I also suspect it might be a carry over from chemical nomenclature, where 'ite' and 'ate' where used to show the oxidation state of a compound. Nitrite/Nitrate, Sulfite/Sulfate and so on. Or maybe they had a common etymology. BK On Nov 23, 2007 1:50 PM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > They don't ;-))) > Most of the more recent names do but not all. > Celestine, diamond, copper, dioptase, ice (hihi), pyrope, spodumene... > > You can't expect nomenclature rules that have been made up over more than > 5 > millennia to be consistent. > > I hope you're not completely traumatized now? > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Carolyn Reynard > > Verzonden: vrijdag 23 november 2007 19:18 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals > > > > I know we have discussed the reason most minerals end in... > > ite. However, I have failed to enter the reason in my memory > > bank which I quickly noted when one of our 6 year old junior > > rockhounds asked me, "why do all minerals end in ite?". Please help! > > Carolyn Reynard > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Nov 23 11:28:01 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Nov 23 11:28:04 2007 Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} In-Reply-To: <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <002e01c82e06$f5f7d340$6401a8c0@AxelHP> > I think Density is the correct term, but I liked Specific > Mass because it implies it is independent of the gravity of > whatever planet or moon you might be on. Specific Gravity > ties you to one planet (Earth). It IS why I went wrong ;-))) It's the logic of mass being universal against gravity being local. > Element 126 is supposed to be in the middle of an 'island of > stability' > in the periodic table where only 184 neutrons would be needed > to balance the 126 protons. Both are 'magic' numbers leading > to an especially dense packing of the nucleus because the > binding energy of each nucleon is at a local minimum. You would indeed encounter heavy but stable isotopes. Still, a slow moving neutron hitting the nucleus of element 126 would probably be energetic enough to induce fission. That is probably the reason that these mammoth-elements do not occur in nature although they are stable. It seems that there is at least on more island of stability even further on the periodic table. > The unusually compact nucleus should allow for a more compact > electron shell as well. I doubt that it would be enough to counter the shielding effect of 126 electrons. The inner ones would be buzzing around frantically but if you apply the rule that you must fill the sub shells with electrons in the order of climbing energy you would see many incomplete shells... The repelling forced exerted on the outermost electrons would counter the effect of a compact nucleus, or so I believe. I'll meet you half way... Neutral buoyancy? >Besides, Kryptonite meteorites were > recovered from the ocean bottom in several comics, so it does > not float. Hahahaha LOL... no, ROFLMAO .... GOOD ONE... Ouch, my bypasses are coming apart at the seams... > And then 'real' Kryptonite was found, matching the chemical > formula given in later Superman stories > http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=5105 > but it turned out to be white. Go figure. Hm, if I'm right about the numerous unfilled electron shells then this element would be able to absorb many different wavelengths of light and would therefore be black or very dark in color. Sorry to disagree (oh boy, I missed a good discussion last two weeks. Thanks Kreigh) > BTW, I worked at a comic book store for over 10 years in my past. Somehow these comics seem to have been very educational ;-)))) Cheers Axel From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Nov 23 11:30:27 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Nov 23 11:30:29 2007 Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} In-Reply-To: <8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP><474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> <8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002f01c82e07$4d859cf0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Darn, and now all our intellectual jousting has become futile... I hate it when someone solves the problem first ;-))))) Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens pmodreski@aol.com > Verzonden: vrijdag 23 november 2007 16:03 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} > > I remember those news stories about the mineral resembling > the formula of "kyptonite" from the comics, in fact I'm sure > we discussed here on Rockhounds.? I thought it was really > really a stretch to try to make that connection.? Plus, as > I'm sure we discussed, kryptonite to properly have all its > unique radioactive powers on Superman, should have been a > chemical element, not just a chemical compound (a mineral > with a complex chemical formula). > > And also as I'm sure we and others noted, minerals normally > end in "ite", but chemical elements names normally end in > "ium".? So it could have been the element from planet > Krypton, kryptonium, which could be?present in the mineral > kryptonite.? There, I've solved it all.?? :? )? > > Pete > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 9:15 pm > Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} > > > > Axel (and Pete), > > I think Density is the correct term, but I liked Specific > Mass because it implies it is independent of the gravity of > whatever planet or moon you might be on. Specific Gravity > ties you to one planet (Earth). > > Element 126 is supposed to be in the middle of an 'island of > stability' > in the periodic table where only 184 neutrons would be needed > to balance the 126 protons. Both are 'magic' numbers leading > to an especially dense packing of the nucleus because the > binding energy of each nucleon is at a local minimum. > > The unusually compact nucleus should allow for a more compact > electron shell as well. Besides, Kryptonite meteorites were > recovered from the ocean bottom in several comics, so it does > not float. > > And then 'real' Kryptonite was found, matching the chemical > formula given in later Superman stories > > http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=5105 > > but it turned out to be white. Go figure. > > BTW, I worked at a comic book store for over 10 years in my past. > > Kreigh > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? > > > > Pete wrote: > > > > > I guess you clarified this for me, Kreigh, I was still > puzzling over > > > what "specific mass" meant. Wondered if that was just a > European > > > term; in truth, I'd never heard that phrase before. > Evidently, you > > > and Axel are meaning the same thing as "specific > gravity" by it. I > > > didn't want to question Axel too closely about this, he's still > > > recovering and may not be up to too sharp interrogation. > > > > Axel's reply > > Yo Pete, thanks for the consideration but I'm already > strong enough to > > change my own diapers ;-)))) Yeah, I meant "specific > gravity" but the > > long-term effects of deep narcosis still haunt me, I guess. > > Funny term BTW. I would interpret the term as "the gravity > measured at > > one place". Like gravity on the moon is only 1/6th of that on earth. > > Specific mass would mean the mass that is represented by 1 cubic > > centimeter of a substance in grams/cm3. > > Apparently linguistic logic will only take you so far. I > usually don't > > make much mistakes like that but you got it figured out. No > harm done > > ;-))) > > > > Kreigh wrote: > > > Kryptonite is supposedly element 126, which would > probably put it > > > around 25. > > > > > > > Axel's reply: > > Hm, I think it will be less, Kreigh. Although a scientist should > > review my babblings I'm pretty sure that the following is > reasonably > > approximately perhaps a bit true: > > > > Specific gravity of the elements culminates around element > 76 which is > > Osmium. The osmium nucleus has the most "pull" on it's > electron mantle > > of all elements. As a result the atoms shrinks and thus > becomes heavier. > > > > This electromagnetic attraction between nucleus and > electrons depends on: > > > > A: the number of protons AKA which element is it. The more protons, > > the more pull. > > > > B: A by proxy (1) the number of neutrons needed to stabilize the > > nucleus rises disproportionately with the numbers of > protons. If this > > number gets really big, the "attractive force per volume" of the > > nucleus drops. Size seems to matter whit matter too. A voluminous > > nucleus packs less positive charge per cubic femtometer ;-))) > > > > C: A by proxy (2). The more protons, the more electrons. Electrons > > repel each other. Inner electron shells repel the outer > ones thereby "bloating" > > the atom or ion. They also shield off the positive > attraction from the > > nucleus which enhances the effect even more. > > > > So this is why Iridium, although it has more mass than osmium (a > > proton, an electron and some neutrons), has a slightly > lower spec.grav. > > > > Also: the gigantic number of electrons swarming around the > nucleus of > > element 126 would allow almost no "leakage" of electropositive > > attraction from the nucleus to get through. As a result, > crystals of > > Kryptonite would be VERY loosely stacked making the crystal > light... > > VERY light (compare SG of calcite to that of aragonite. The > are both > > CaCO3 but the way that the molecules are stacked determines the SG) > > > > Taking all this into account I would not be surprised if Kryptonite > > were to float on water. Spec. Gravity below 1.0. > > > > There's a lot more to it and my explanation is a blatant > > simplification of the phenomenon but hey... I'm no rocket scientist > > ;-))) > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free > AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Nov 23 11:41:24 2007 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Nov 23 11:38:31 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> <8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> <000801c82dfd$3e648510$860da118@feldsparflash> <002c01c82e01$c42b82d0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <000d01c82e08$d540f800$860da118@feldsparflash> So pleased it is you Axel, sending me a traumatizing message. Great to have your responses appearing again!! Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 1:50 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals > They don't ;-))) > Most of the more recent names do but not all. > Celestine, diamond, copper, dioptase, ice (hihi), pyrope, spodumene... > > You can't expect nomenclature rules that have been made up over more than 5 > millennia to be consistent. > > I hope you're not completely traumatized now? > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Carolyn Reynard > > Verzonden: vrijdag 23 november 2007 19:18 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals > > > > I know we have discussed the reason most minerals end in... > > ite. However, I have failed to enter the reason in my memory > > bank which I quickly noted when one of our 6 year old junior > > rockhounds asked me, "why do all minerals end in ite?". Please help! > > Carolyn Reynard > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:03 AM > > Subject: Re: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} > > > > > > > I remember those news stories about the mineral resembling > > the formula of > > "kyptonite" from the comics, in fact I'm sure we discussed here on > > Rockhounds.? I thought it was really really a stretch to try > > to make that > > connection.? Plus, as I'm sure we discussed, kryptonite to > > properly have all > > its unique radioactive powers on Superman, should have been a chemical > > element, not just a chemical compound (a mineral with a > > complex chemical > > formula). > > > > > > And also as I'm sure we and others noted, minerals normally > > end in "ite", > > but chemical elements names normally end in "ium".? So it > > could have been > > the element from planet Krypton, kryptonium, which could > > be?present in the > > mineral kryptonite.? There, I've solved it all.?? :? )? > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > > > > Sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 9:15 pm > > > Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} > > > > > > > > > > > > Axel (and Pete), > > > > > > I think Density is the correct term, but I liked Specific > > Mass because > > > it implies it is independent of the gravity of whatever > > planet or moon > > > you might be on. Specific Gravity ties you to one planet (Earth). > > > > > > Element 126 is supposed to be in the middle of an 'island > > of stability' > > > in the periodic table where only 184 neutrons would be > > needed to balance > > > the 126 protons. Both are 'magic' numbers leading to an > > especially dense > > > packing of the nucleus because the binding energy of each > > nucleon is at > > > a local minimum. > > > > > > The unusually compact nucleus should allow for a more > > compact electron > > > shell as well. Besides, Kryptonite meteorites were > > recovered from the > > > ocean bottom in several comics, so it does not float. > > > > > > And then 'real' Kryptonite was found, matching the chemical formula > > > given in later Superman stories > > > > > > http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=5105 > > > > > > but it turned out to be white. Go figure. > > > > > > BTW, I worked at a comic book store for over 10 years in my past. > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? > > > > > > > > Pete wrote: > > > > > > > > > I guess you clarified this for me, Kreigh, I was still > > > > > puzzling over what "specific mass" meant. Wondered if that > > > > > was just a European term; in truth, I'd never heard that > > > > > phrase before. Evidently, you and Axel are meaning the same > > > > > thing as "specific gravity" by it. I didn't want to > > > > > question Axel too closely about this, he's still recovering > > > > > and may not be up to too sharp interrogation. > > > > > > > > Axel's reply > > > > Yo Pete, thanks for the consideration but I'm already > > strong enough to > > > > change my own diapers ;-)))) > > > > Yeah, I meant "specific gravity" but the long-term effects of deep > > narcosis > > > > still haunt me, I guess. > > > > Funny term BTW. I would interpret the term as "the > > gravity measured at > > one > > > > place". Like gravity on the moon is only 1/6th of that on earth. > > > > Specific mass would mean the mass that is represented by 1 cubic > > centimeter > > > > of a substance in grams/cm3. > > > > Apparently linguistic logic will only take you so far. I > > usually don't > > make > > > > much mistakes like that but you got it figured out. No > > harm done ;-))) > > > > > > > > Kreigh wrote: > > > > > Kryptonite is supposedly element 126, which would probably > > > > > put it around 25. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Axel's reply: > > > > Hm, I think it will be less, Kreigh. Although a scientist > > should review > > my > > > > babblings I'm pretty sure that the following is > > reasonably approximately > > > > perhaps a bit true: > > > > > > > > Specific gravity of the elements culminates around > > element 76 which is > > > > Osmium. The osmium nucleus has the most "pull" on it's > > electron mantle > > of > > > > all elements. As a result the atoms shrinks and thus > > becomes heavier. > > > > > > > > This electromagnetic attraction between nucleus and > > electrons depends > > on: > > > > > > > > A: the number of protons AKA which element is it. The > > more protons, the > > more > > > > pull. > > > > > > > > B: A by proxy (1) the number of neutrons needed to > > stabilize the nucleus > > > > rises disproportionately with the numbers of protons. If > > this number > > gets > > > > really big, the "attractive force per volume" of the > > nucleus drops. Size > > > > seems to matter whit matter too. A voluminous nucleus packs less > > positive > > > > charge per cubic femtometer ;-))) > > > > > > > > C: A by proxy (2). The more protons, the more electrons. > > Electrons repel > > > > each other. Inner electron shells repel the outer ones thereby > > "bloating" > > > > the atom or ion. They also shield off the positive > > attraction from the > > > > nucleus which enhances the effect even more. > > > > > > > > So this is why Iridium, although it has more mass than > > osmium (a proton, > > an > > > > electron and some neutrons), has a slightly lower spec.grav. > > > > > > > > Also: the gigantic number of electrons swarming around > > the nucleus of > > > > element 126 would allow almost no "leakage" of electropositive > > attraction > > > > from the nucleus to get through. As a result, crystals of > > Kryptonite > > would > > > > be VERY loosely stacked making the crystal light... VERY > > light (compare > > SG > > > > of calcite to that of aragonite. The are both CaCO3 but > > the way that the > > > > molecules are stacked determines the SG) > > > > > > > > Taking all this into account I would not be surprised if > > Kryptonite were > > to > > > > float on water. Spec. Gravity below 1.0. > > > > > > > > There's a lot more to it and my explanation is a blatant > > simplification > > of > > > > the phenomenon but hey... I'm no rocket scientist ;-))) > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > __________ > > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free > > AOL Mail! - > > http://mail.aol.com > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Nov 23 11:56:02 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Nov 23 11:56:05 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals In-Reply-To: <000d01c82e08$d540f800$860da118@feldsparflash> References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP><474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net><8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com><000801c82dfd$3e648510$860da118@feldsparflash><002c01c82e01$c42b82d0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <000d01c82e08$d540f800$860da118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <003a01c82e0a$e0a3a1f0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Thank you Carolyn, I nearly croaked and keeled over on Kreigh's humor so we're both traumatized now. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Carolyn Reynard > Verzonden: vrijdag 23 november 2007 20:41 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals > > So pleased it is you Axel, sending me a traumatizing message. > Great to have your responses appearing again!! > Carolyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors'" > > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 1:50 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals > > > > They don't ;-))) > > Most of the more recent names do but not all. > > Celestine, diamond, copper, dioptase, ice (hihi), pyrope, > spodumene... > > > > You can't expect nomenclature rules that have been made up > over more than > 5 > > millennia to be consistent. > > > > I hope you're not completely traumatized now? > > > > Axel > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens > Carolyn Reynard > > > Verzonden: vrijdag 23 november 2007 19:18 > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > collectors > > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals > > > > > > I know we have discussed the reason most minerals end in... > > > ite. However, I have failed to enter the reason in my memory > > > bank which I quickly noted when one of our 6 year old junior > > > rockhounds asked me, "why do all minerals end in ite?". > Please help! > > > Carolyn Reynard > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: > > > To: > > > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:03 AM > > > Subject: Re: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} > > > > > > > > > > I remember those news stories about the mineral resembling > > > the formula of > > > "kyptonite" from the comics, in fact I'm sure we discussed here on > > > Rockhounds.? I thought it was really really a stretch to try > > > to make that > > > connection.? Plus, as I'm sure we discussed, kryptonite to > > > properly have all > > > its unique radioactive powers on Superman, should have > been a chemical > > > element, not just a chemical compound (a mineral with a > > > complex chemical > > > formula). > > > > > > > > And also as I'm sure we and others noted, minerals normally > > > end in "ite", > > > but chemical elements names normally end in "ium".? So it > > > could have been > > > the element from planet Krypton, kryptonium, which could > > > be?present in the > > > mineral kryptonite.? There, I've solved it all.?? :? )? > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > > > > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > collectors > > > > > > > Sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 9:15 pm > > > > Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Axel (and Pete), > > > > > > > > I think Density is the correct term, but I liked Specific > > > Mass because > > > > it implies it is independent of the gravity of whatever > > > planet or moon > > > > you might be on. Specific Gravity ties you to one > planet (Earth). > > > > > > > > Element 126 is supposed to be in the middle of an 'island > > > of stability' > > > > in the periodic table where only 184 neutrons would be > > > needed to balance > > > > the 126 protons. Both are 'magic' numbers leading to an > > > especially dense > > > > packing of the nucleus because the binding energy of each > > > nucleon is at > > > > a local minimum. > > > > > > > > The unusually compact nucleus should allow for a more > > > compact electron > > > > shell as well. Besides, Kryptonite meteorites were > > > recovered from the > > > > ocean bottom in several comics, so it does not float. > > > > > > > > And then 'real' Kryptonite was found, matching the > chemical formula > > > > given in later Superman stories > > > > > > > > http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=5105 > > > > > > > > but it turned out to be white. Go figure. > > > > > > > > BTW, I worked at a comic book store for over 10 years > in my past. > > > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > > > BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? > > > > > > > > > > Pete wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I guess you clarified this for me, Kreigh, I was still > > > > > > puzzling over what "specific mass" meant. Wondered if that > > > > > > was just a European term; in truth, I'd never heard that > > > > > > phrase before. Evidently, you and Axel are > meaning the same > > > > > > thing as "specific gravity" by it. I didn't want to > > > > > > question Axel too closely about this, he's still recovering > > > > > > and may not be up to too sharp interrogation. > > > > > > > > > > Axel's reply > > > > > Yo Pete, thanks for the consideration but I'm already > > > strong enough to > > > > > change my own diapers ;-)))) > > > > > Yeah, I meant "specific gravity" but the long-term > effects of deep > > > narcosis > > > > > still haunt me, I guess. > > > > > Funny term BTW. I would interpret the term as "the > > > gravity measured at > > > one > > > > > place". Like gravity on the moon is only 1/6th of > that on earth. > > > > > Specific mass would mean the mass that is represented > by 1 cubic > > > centimeter > > > > > of a substance in grams/cm3. > > > > > Apparently linguistic logic will only take you so far. I > > > usually don't > > > make > > > > > much mistakes like that but you got it figured out. No > > > harm done ;-))) > > > > > > > > > > Kreigh wrote: > > > > > > Kryptonite is supposedly element 126, which would probably > > > > > > put it around 25. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Axel's reply: > > > > > Hm, I think it will be less, Kreigh. Although a scientist > > > should review > > > my > > > > > babblings I'm pretty sure that the following is > > > reasonably approximately > > > > > perhaps a bit true: > > > > > > > > > > Specific gravity of the elements culminates around > > > element 76 which is > > > > > Osmium. The osmium nucleus has the most "pull" on it's > > > electron mantle > > > of > > > > > all elements. As a result the atoms shrinks and thus > > > becomes heavier. > > > > > > > > > > This electromagnetic attraction between nucleus and > > > electrons depends > > > on: > > > > > > > > > > A: the number of protons AKA which element is it. The > > > more protons, the > > > more > > > > > pull. > > > > > > > > > > B: A by proxy (1) the number of neutrons needed to > > > stabilize the nucleus > > > > > rises disproportionately with the numbers of protons. If > > > this number > > > gets > > > > > really big, the "attractive force per volume" of the > > > nucleus drops. Size > > > > > seems to matter whit matter too. A voluminous nucleus > packs less > > > positive > > > > > charge per cubic femtometer ;-))) > > > > > > > > > > C: A by proxy (2). The more protons, the more electrons. > > > Electrons repel > > > > > each other. Inner electron shells repel the outer ones thereby > > > "bloating" > > > > > the atom or ion. They also shield off the positive > > > attraction from the > > > > > nucleus which enhances the effect even more. > > > > > > > > > > So this is why Iridium, although it has more mass than > > > osmium (a proton, > > > an > > > > > electron and some neutrons), has a slightly lower spec.grav. > > > > > > > > > > Also: the gigantic number of electrons swarming around > > > the nucleus of > > > > > element 126 would allow almost no "leakage" of electropositive > > > attraction > > > > > from the nucleus to get through. As a result, crystals of > > > Kryptonite > > > would > > > > > be VERY loosely stacked making the crystal light... VERY > > > light (compare > > > SG > > > > > of calcite to that of aragonite. The are both CaCO3 but > > > the way that the > > > > > molecules are stacked determines the SG) > > > > > > > > > > Taking all this into account I would not be surprised if > > > Kryptonite were > > > to > > > > > float on water. Spec. Gravity below 1.0. > > > > > > > > > > There's a lot more to it and my explanation is a blatant > > > simplification > > > of > > > > > the phenomenon but hey... I'm no rocket scientist ;-))) > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > __________ > > > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free > > > AOL Mail! - > > > http://mail.aol.com > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > > multipart/alternative > > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > > text/html > > > > --- > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 23 12:07:23 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 23 12:07:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals In-Reply-To: <000801c82dfd$3e648510$860da118@feldsparflash> References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> <8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> <000801c82dfd$3e648510$860da118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <474732FB.7020504@verizon.net> Carolyn Reynard wrote: > I know we have discussed the reason most minerals end in... ite. However, I > have failed to enter the reason in my memory bank which I quickly noted when > one of our 6 year old junior rockhounds asked me, "why do all minerals end > in ite?". Please help! Hi, An explanation tailored to a 6-year-old would be that there was an international commission established in the 1960s to standardize mineral naming. However, minerals named by scientists before then often used combinations of Greek and Latin root words and suffixes. So of the more than 4,000 named species, some have the -ite suffix and some do not, depending if they were named after the commission decided on the rules. At this point you do *not* want to confuse the child by saying that a few non-compliant names, such as hafnon (should have been disapproved and suggested as hafnite), have been approved by the commission. This may raise the question of why scientists like to use Greek and Latin names for all sorts of things, which is a long tradition... I'll let you explain that one. And explain why many prominent scientists in the old days Latinized their names... the mind boggles. The new Shorter Oxford English Dictionary gives several definitions for -ite, depending on context, one of which is that it is the suffix of a mineral name, with references to the same suffix in zoology, chemistry, paleontology, etc. The suffix corresponds to similar Latin and Greek terms. Don't quote me on this, but it might mean "composed of" or "being a member of." I learned it at one time, but forgot, and can't find the authoritative definition. Until we can come up with a sound definition of the suffix, it would be appropriate to tell the child that it is a suffix commonly used in the sciences to denote species and chemical compounds and is derived from Greek or Latin. I hope this helps a little. Best, Don From kadok at infowest.com Fri Nov 23 12:44:34 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Nov 23 12:44:13 2007 Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} In-Reply-To: <8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP><474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> <8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002401c82e11$a7d07f40$0200a8c0@kadok> There ya go, Pete, you've got it! I don't really remember that far back, but didn't Superman (who would not realy be expected to know about our nomenclature customs) come up with Kryptonite before "man" did? <;-P Margaret >I remember those news stories about the mineral resembling the formula of >"kyptonite" from the comics, in fact I'm sure we discussed here on >Rockhounds.? I thought it was really really a stretch to try to make that >connection.? Plus, as I'm sure we discussed, kryptonite to properly have >all its unique radioactive powers on Superman, should have been a chemical >element, not just a chemical compound (a mineral with a complex chemical >formula). >And also as I'm sure we and others noted, minerals normally end in "ite", >but chemical elements names normally end in "ium".? So it could have been >the element from planet Krypton, kryptonium, which could be?present in the >mineral kryptonite.? There, I've solved it all.?? :? )? Pete -----Original Message----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 9:15 pm Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} Axel (and Pete), I think Density is the correct term, but I liked Specific Mass because it implies it is independent of the gravity of whatever planet or moon you might be on. Specific Gravity ties you to one planet (Earth). Element 126 is supposed to be in the middle of an 'island of stability' in the periodic table where only 184 neutrons would be needed to balance the 126 protons. Both are 'magic' numbers leading to an especially dense packing of the nucleus because the binding energy of each nucleon is at a local minimum. The unusually compact nucleus should allow for a more compact electron shell as well. Besides, Kryptonite meteorites were recovered from the ocean bottom in several comics, so it does not float. And then 'real' Kryptonite was found, matching the chemical formula given in later Superman stories http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=5105 but it turned out to be white. Go figure. BTW, I worked at a comic book store for over 10 years in my past. Kreigh Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > BTW: what's he specific mass of kryptonite? > > Pete wrote: > > > I guess you clarified this for me, Kreigh, I was still > > puzzling over what "specific mass" meant. Wondered if that > > was just a European term; in truth, I'd never heard that > > phrase before. Evidently, you and Axel are meaning the same > > thing as "specific gravity" by it. I didn't want to > > question Axel too closely about this, he's still recovering > > and may not be up to too sharp interrogation. > > Axel's reply > Yo Pete, thanks for the consideration but I'm already strong enough to > change my own diapers ;-)))) > Yeah, I meant "specific gravity" but the long-term effects of deep narcosis > still haunt me, I guess. > Funny term BTW. I would interpret the term as "the gravity measured at one > place". Like gravity on the moon is only 1/6th of that on earth. > Specific mass would mean the mass that is represented by 1 cubic centimeter > of a substance in grams/cm3. > Apparently linguistic logic will only take you so far. I usually don't make > much mistakes like that but you got it figured out. No harm done ;-))) > > Kreigh wrote: > > Kryptonite is supposedly element 126, which would probably > > put it around 25. > > > > Axel's reply: > Hm, I think it will be less, Kreigh. Although a scientist should review my > babblings I'm pretty sure that the following is reasonably approximately > perhaps a bit true: > > Specific gravity of the elements culminates around element 76 which is > Osmium. The osmium nucleus has the most "pull" on it's electron mantle of > all elements. As a result the atoms shrinks and thus becomes heavier. > > This electromagnetic attraction between nucleus and electrons depends on: > > A: the number of protons AKA which element is it. The more protons, the more > pull. > > B: A by proxy (1) the number of neutrons needed to stabilize the nucleus > rises disproportionately with the numbers of protons. If this number gets > really big, the "attractive force per volume" of the nucleus drops. Size > seems to matter whit matter too. A voluminous nucleus packs less positive > charge per cubic femtometer ;-))) > > C: A by proxy (2). The more protons, the more electrons. Electrons repel > each other. Inner electron shells repel the outer ones thereby "bloating" > the atom or ion. They also shield off the positive attraction from the > nucleus which enhances the effect even more. > > So this is why Iridium, although it has more mass than osmium (a proton, an > electron and some neutrons), has a slightly lower spec.grav. > > Also: the gigantic number of electrons swarming around the nucleus of > element 126 would allow almost no "leakage" of electropositive attraction > from the nucleus to get through. As a result, crystals of Kryptonite would > be VERY loosely stacked making the crystal light... VERY light (compare SG > of calcite to that of aragonite. The are both CaCO3 but the way that the > molecules are stacked determines the SG) > > Taking all this into account I would not be surprised if Kryptonite were to > float on water. Spec. Gravity below 1.0. > > There's a lot more to it and my explanation is a blatant simplification of > the phenomenon but hey... I'm no rocket scientist ;-))) > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 23 12:53:31 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 23 12:53:50 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] new book and DVD on mineralogy Message-ID: <47473DCB.4030906@verizon.net> Hi all, I just wanted to introduce a new book that might be helpful to those who really want to learn more about mineralogy, and have purchased old textbooks in the past in order to teach themselves. It is Mineralogy and Optical Mineralogy, available through the Mineralogical Society of America. This book takes advantage of the latest teaching methods and the latest technology in graphic design and on-demand printing. To keep costs down, the book is printed in paperback and the illustrations are B&W, but the book includes a DVD with corresponding full color illustrations and animations too. In addition, there are viewers for CrystalMaker, CrystalDiffract, and SingleCrystal which let you view and manipulate 3-D crystal models and diffraction patterns. These are normally very expensive programs and it was generous of the software authors to provide viewers on the DVD. This link shows the book and gives you the Preface and some nice samples from the book that will help you decide whether you want to have it. http://www.minsocam.org/MSA/DGTtxt/ The link to Chapter 9 doesn't seem to be working for me in Netscape 7.2 but, after installing Adode Flash 9 in Firefox, it works there as an animation to explain how an SEM/EDS functions. One of the things I have found helpful is that it includes instructions for making your own spreadsheet that takes mineral data and computes the mineral stoichiometry, assuming you have good data to begin with. This might be helpful for people who send minerals out to be analyzed but aren't sure what to do with the data once it comes back. Another thing that makes this different from most other textbooks is that it is written in a conversational, first-person style. This takes a little time to get used to, but it is less intimidating than the more dry and stiff writing in many texts. Disclosure: I worked on the book and was compensated for it, but receive no further compensation on sales of the book. best regards, Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 23 13:29:16 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 23 13:26:42 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> <8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> <000801c82dfd$3e648510$860da118@feldsparflash> <474732FB.7020504@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4747458A.76B6@Tomaszewski.net> The suffix -ite is derived from the greek word lithos (from its adjectival form -ites) meaning rock or stone. Kreigh DonH wrote: > > Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > I know we have discussed the reason most minerals end in... ite. However, I > > have failed to enter the reason in my memory bank which I quickly noted when > > one of our 6 year old junior rockhounds asked me, "why do all minerals end > > in ite?". Please help! > > Hi, > > An explanation tailored to a 6-year-old would be that there was an > international commission established in the 1960s to standardize mineral > naming. However, minerals named by scientists before then often used > combinations of Greek and Latin root words and suffixes. So of the more > than 4,000 named species, some have the -ite suffix and some do not, > depending if they were named after the commission decided on the rules. > At this point you do *not* want to confuse the child by saying that a > few non-compliant names, such as hafnon (should have been disapproved > and suggested as hafnite), have been approved by the commission. > > This may raise the question of why scientists like to use Greek and > Latin names for all sorts of things, which is a long tradition... I'll > let you explain that one. And explain why many prominent scientists in > the old days Latinized their names... the mind boggles. > > The new Shorter Oxford English Dictionary gives several definitions for > -ite, depending on context, one of which is that it is the suffix of a > mineral name, with references to the same suffix in zoology, chemistry, > paleontology, etc. The suffix corresponds to similar Latin and Greek > terms. Don't quote me on this, but it might mean "composed of" or > "being a member of." I learned it at one time, but forgot, and can't > find the authoritative definition. Until we can come up with a sound > definition of the suffix, it would be appropriate to tell the child that > it is a suffix commonly used in the sciences to denote species and > chemical compounds and is derived from Greek or Latin. > > I hope this helps a little. > > Best, > Don > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rik.dillen at skynet.be Fri Nov 23 13:32:31 2007 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Fri Nov 23 13:32:42 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals In-Reply-To: <474732FB.7020504@verizon.net> References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> <8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> <000801c82dfd$3e648510$860da118@feldsparflash> <474732FB.7020504@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000001c82e18$5b13dba0$113b92e0$@dillen@skynet.be> I got tonight a question of my grandson (just 3 years old) : "Why is the moon sometimes big and sometimes small ?". Explain that without telling about refraction of light in the atmosphere, the orientation of the trio sun/earth/moon etc. It is more easy to explain to an adult how a laser ablation high resolution inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometer works... The joy of having a grandson (and since 3 months also a granddaughter)... just like Carolyn I need all my imagination and creativity to explain things here. Grts, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of DonH Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 9:07 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals Carolyn Reynard wrote: > I know we have discussed the reason most minerals end in... ite. However, I > have failed to enter the reason in my memory bank which I quickly noted when > one of our 6 year old junior rockhounds asked me, "why do all minerals end > in ite?". Please help! Hi, An explanation tailored to a 6-year-old would be that there was an international commission established in the 1960s to standardize mineral naming. However, minerals named by scientists before then often used combinations of Greek and Latin root words and suffixes. So of the more than 4,000 named species, some have the -ite suffix and some do not, depending if they were named after the commission decided on the rules. At this point you do *not* want to confuse the child by saying that a few non-compliant names, such as hafnon (should have been disapproved and suggested as hafnite), have been approved by the commission. This may raise the question of why scientists like to use Greek and Latin names for all sorts of things, which is a long tradition... I'll let you explain that one. And explain why many prominent scientists in the old days Latinized their names... the mind boggles. The new Shorter Oxford English Dictionary gives several definitions for -ite, depending on context, one of which is that it is the suffix of a mineral name, with references to the same suffix in zoology, chemistry, paleontology, etc. The suffix corresponds to similar Latin and Greek terms. Don't quote me on this, but it might mean "composed of" or "being a member of." I learned it at one time, but forgot, and can't find the authoritative definition. Until we can come up with a sound definition of the suffix, it would be appropriate to tell the child that it is a suffix commonly used in the sciences to denote species and chemical compounds and is derived from Greek or Latin. I hope this helps a little. Best, Don -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rik.dillen at skynet.be Fri Nov 23 13:50:39 2007 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Fri Nov 23 13:50:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals In-Reply-To: <4747458A.76B6@Tomaszewski.net> References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> <8C9FBF91D628BA7-FA0-69C3@mblk-d37.sysops.aol.com> <000801c82dfd$3e648510$860da118@feldsparflash> <474732FB.7020504@verizon.net> <4747458A.76B6@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000101c82e1a$e3093d00$a91bb700$@dillen@skynet.be> That's it indeed ! Grts, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen >>> Belgian minerals >>> An own find on a Korean (and now again on a Guinean) postage stamp ! >>> Exchange list MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 10:29 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ite ending of minerals The suffix -ite is derived from the greek word lithos (from its adjectival form -ites) meaning rock or stone. Kreigh DonH wrote: > > Carolyn Reynard wrote: > > I know we have discussed the reason most minerals end in... ite. However, I > > have failed to enter the reason in my memory bank which I quickly noted when > > one of our 6 year old junior rockhounds asked me, "why do all minerals end > > in ite?". Please help! > > Hi, > > An explanation tailored to a 6-year-old would be that there was an > international commission established in the 1960s to standardize mineral > naming. However, minerals named by scientists before then often used > combinations of Greek and Latin root words and suffixes. So of the more > than 4,000 named species, some have the -ite suffix and some do not, > depending if they were named after the commission decided on the rules. > At this point you do *not* want to confuse the child by saying that a > few non-compliant names, such as hafnon (should have been disapproved > and suggested as hafnite), have been approved by the commission. > > This may raise the question of why scientists like to use Greek and > Latin names for all sorts of things, which is a long tradition... I'll > let you explain that one. And explain why many prominent scientists in > the old days Latinized their names... the mind boggles. > > The new Shorter Oxford English Dictionary gives several definitions for > -ite, depending on context, one of which is that it is the suffix of a > mineral name, with references to the same suffix in zoology, chemistry, > paleontology, etc. The suffix corresponds to similar Latin and Greek > terms. Don't quote me on this, but it might mean "composed of" or > "being a member of." I learned it at one time, but forgot, and can't > find the authoritative definition. Until we can come up with a sound > definition of the suffix, it would be appropriate to tell the child that > it is a suffix commonly used in the sciences to denote species and > chemical compounds and is derived from Greek or Latin. > > I hope this helps a little. > > Best, > Don > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From hammerron at yahoo.com Fri Nov 23 18:24:54 2007 From: hammerron at yahoo.com (The Hammer) Date: Fri Nov 23 18:24:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals Message-ID: <4265.86389.qm@web83514.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Your mention of ice crystals reminds me of the really cool (pun intended..ouch) ice crystals I used to see about every year at my dad's house. They formed on the north side of a hill. They were thin needle-like crystal that grew about an inch in length. They all grew parallel to each other forming these huge sheets. I had never seen anything like that before and it always fascinated me. -Ron ----- Original Message ---- From: Alan Goldstein To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 2:17:43 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals It got down in the 20's this morning. We had rain yesterday so the grooves in the tail gate's liner was wet. This morning I saw something I have never seen before - ice spears. There were crystals of ice sticking up at various angles as much as 8 cm long ranging from about 5 to 10 mm wide. Most were transparent and showed growth patterns via rows of tiny air bubbles. I took some pictures (they haven't been downloaded yet). That is the only way I could preserve them! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 2:01 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano activity (was) Quartz Crystal from Hawaii ? > It got down to 50 degrees F last night where we live, and this morning > it's 69. There are patches of snow visible on Mauna Kea, left from snow > that covered the summit down to the 9000 foot level a week ago. > > Lava from Pu'u O'o has not been going into the ocean for some time, but > it's spreading overland from a fissure that opened---and is named---July > 21. So far no homes are threatened. There are some good pictures at the > following site: > http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/images.html > It's worth clicking on the pictures to see them full-size, and you can > click again for slight further enlargement. If you click on Image > Archives, you can look back by year to 1997. Some of those include > spectacular views of lava going into the ocean. Just for the heck of it, > I just clicked on October 2002 and there are some real goodies. > > Happy day-after-Thanksgiving, and aloha, Kitty > > At 08:19 AM 11/23/2007, you wrote: >>Looking out the window at the heavy frost covered roofs (lows in the low >>teens, highs in the low 30s) and mountains turning whiter each day, I'm >>jealous. >> >>Regards, >> >>Lanny >> >>On Nov 22, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: >> >>>Wow, Lanny, you certainly found enough evidence to prove me completely >>>wrong! Mea culpa. Thanks for the research. Now I have new places to >>>look for something other than basalt! >>> >>>Aloha, Kitty >>> >>>At 07:46 AM 11/22/2007, you wrote: >>>>A search of MinDex yielded the following references from the mineral >>>>magazines over the past years. Although only one of these specifically >>>>list the sizes of the quartz crystals, at least they indicate some >>>>possibilities. Some of these articles also mention that there are >>>>several localities on the island that produce zeolites and other >>>>minerals. >>>> >>>>Regards, >>>> >>>>Lanny > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Nov 23 20:44:04 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Nov 23 20:40:29 2007 Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> <002e01c82e06$f5f7d340$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <4747AB33.2385@Tomaszewski.net> Axel, You have to face reality as consistently documented (in comics and movies {and the Wikipedia article is actually pretty good too}). I don't think your theory works. Kryptonite comes in many bright colors; green, red, gold, blue, and white. Black can be made by superheating green, but it is not a natural form. It usually appears to fluoresce from its internally generated radiation (a slow decay since it appears stable, somewhat like uranium) that does not affect humans. You must be wrong about the electron shells; I would expect it to fill them in order as that usually gives the lowest overall energy, and you only need to worry about the outer (valence) electrons under normal conditions. BTW, Kryptonite was formed when the planet of Krypton exploded. The -ite ending came from Astronomy (Hi Bill!, I think you will like this one...). A meteroid is a rock floating in space, a meteor is one streaking thru the atmosphere, and a meteorite is one that has fallen to earth. The -ite ending identifies a chunk of rock from Krypton that fell to Earth. And since God created the heavens before the earth, geologists use the astronomical nomenclature. ;-} I hope I have brought a smile to your face to help your healing. It is good to have you back Friend Axel. Kreigh P.S., is it true you are affected by Kryptonite? Maybe we should discuss the evidence off-list... Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > I think Density is the correct term, but I liked Specific > > Mass because it implies it is independent of the gravity of > > whatever planet or moon you might be on. Specific Gravity > > ties you to one planet (Earth). > > It IS why I went wrong ;-))) > It's the logic of mass being universal against gravity being local. > > > Element 126 is supposed to be in the middle of an 'island of > > stability' > > in the periodic table where only 184 neutrons would be needed > > to balance the 126 protons. Both are 'magic' numbers leading > > to an especially dense packing of the nucleus because the > > binding energy of each nucleon is at a local minimum. > > You would indeed encounter heavy but stable isotopes. Still, a slow moving > neutron hitting the nucleus of element 126 would probably be energetic > enough to induce fission. That is probably the reason that these > mammoth-elements do not occur in nature although they are stable. > It seems that there is at least on more island of stability even further on > the periodic table. > > > The unusually compact nucleus should allow for a more compact > > electron shell as well. > > I doubt that it would be enough to counter the shielding effect of 126 > electrons. The inner ones would be buzzing around frantically but if you > apply the rule that you must fill the sub shells with electrons in the order > of climbing energy you would see many incomplete shells... The repelling > forced exerted on the outermost electrons would counter the effect of a > compact nucleus, or so I believe. > I'll meet you half way... Neutral buoyancy? > > >Besides, Kryptonite meteorites were > > recovered from the ocean bottom in several comics, so it does > > not float. > > Hahahaha LOL... no, ROFLMAO .... GOOD ONE... Ouch, my bypasses are coming > apart at the seams... > > > And then 'real' Kryptonite was found, matching the chemical > > formula given in later Superman stories > > http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=5105 > > but it turned out to be white. Go figure. > > Hm, if I'm right about the numerous unfilled electron shells then this > element would be able to absorb many different wavelengths of light and > would therefore be black or very dark in color. Sorry to disagree (oh boy, I > missed a good discussion last two weeks. Thanks Kreigh) > > > BTW, I worked at a comic book store for over 10 years in my past. > > Somehow these comics seem to have been very educational ;-)))) > > Cheers > > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Cneff2002 at aol.com Fri Nov 23 20:41:55 2007 From: Cneff2002 at aol.com (Cneff2002@aol.com) Date: Fri Nov 23 20:42:03 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 42, Issue 26 Message-ID: I am looking to find mutual rockhouds in Northern Ca Can you direct me to any? Thanks Candace **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Nov 23 21:04:20 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Nov 23 21:04:34 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel & Kreigh (was) Kryptonite {was: Axel's back!!!!} In-Reply-To: <4747AB33.2385@Tomaszewski.net> References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net> <002e01c82e06$f5f7d340$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <4747AB33.2385@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4742EEDE000518BE@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Hey List: We have to find a way to get Axel and Kreigh to meet in person! Maybe with a camera feed to a site where we all can all watch, or at least a recording that can be transcribed for posting. It would keep all 500 or so of us Rockhound List members entertained, enlightened, and---mostly---laughing! Keep it up guys! If we're all going to live forever! Aloha, Kitty At 06:44 PM 11/23/2007, you wrote: >Axel, > >You have to face reality as consistently documented (in comics and >movies {and the Wikipedia article is actually pretty good too}). I don't >think your theory works. > >Kryptonite comes in many bright colors; green, red, gold, blue, and >white. Black can be made by superheating green, but it is not a natural >form. It usually appears to fluoresce from its internally generated >radiation (a slow decay since it appears stable, somewhat like uranium) >that does not affect humans. > >You must be wrong about the electron shells; I would expect it to fill >them in order as that usually gives the lowest overall energy, and you >only need to worry about the outer (valence) electrons under normal >conditions. > >BTW, Kryptonite was formed when the planet of Krypton exploded. The -ite >ending came from Astronomy (Hi Bill!, I think you will like this >one...). A meteroid is a rock floating in space, a meteor is one >streaking thru the atmosphere, and a meteorite is one that has fallen to >earth. The -ite ending identifies a chunk of rock from Krypton that fell >to Earth. And since God created the heavens before the earth, geologists >use the astronomical nomenclature. ;-} > >I hope I have brought a smile to your face to help your healing. It is >good to have you back Friend Axel. > >Kreigh > >P.S., is it true you are affected by Kryptonite? Maybe we should discuss >the evidence off-list... > > > >Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > I think Density is the correct term, but I liked Specific > > > Mass because it implies it is independent of the gravity of > > > whatever planet or moon you might be on. Specific Gravity > > > ties you to one planet (Earth). > > > > It IS why I went wrong ;-))) > > It's the logic of mass being universal against gravity being local. > > > > > Element 126 is supposed to be in the middle of an 'island of > > > stability' > > > in the periodic table where only 184 neutrons would be needed > > > to balance the 126 protons. Both are 'magic' numbers leading > > > to an especially dense packing of the nucleus because the > > > binding energy of each nucleon is at a local minimum. > > > > You would indeed encounter heavy but stable isotopes. Still, a slow moving > > neutron hitting the nucleus of element 126 would probably be energetic > > enough to induce fission. That is probably the reason that these > > mammoth-elements do not occur in nature although they are stable. > > It seems that there is at least on more island of stability even further on > > the periodic table. > > > > > The unusually compact nucleus should allow for a more compact > > > electron shell as well. > > > > I doubt that it would be enough to counter the shielding effect of 126 > > electrons. The inner ones would be buzzing around frantically but if you > > apply the rule that you must fill the sub shells with electrons > in the order > > of climbing energy you would see many incomplete shells... The repelling > > forced exerted on the outermost electrons would counter the effect of a > > compact nucleus, or so I believe. > > I'll meet you half way... Neutral buoyancy? > > > > >Besides, Kryptonite meteorites were > > > recovered from the ocean bottom in several comics, so it does > > > not float. > > > > Hahahaha LOL... no, ROFLMAO .... GOOD ONE... Ouch, my bypasses are coming > > apart at the seams... > > > > > And then 'real' Kryptonite was found, matching the chemical > > > formula given in later Superman stories > > > http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=5105 > > > but it turned out to be white. Go figure. > > > > Hm, if I'm right about the numerous unfilled electron shells then this > > element would be able to absorb many different wavelengths of light and > > would therefore be black or very dark in color. Sorry to disagree > (oh boy, I > > missed a good discussion last two weeks. Thanks Kreigh) > > > > > BTW, I worked at a comic book store for over 10 years in my past. > > > > Somehow these comics seem to have been very educational ;-)))) > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Fri Nov 23 23:03:19 2007 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Fri Nov 23 23:03:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals References: <4265.86389.qm@web83514.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003b01c82e68$1d4114a0$6f5fe842@Titans> In this area ( Eastern Oregon ) those Ice sheets are caused by fog, the Ice forms of the back side of most things from the general wind direction. Quite interesting alright for sure. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Hammer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com:A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals > Your mention of ice crystals reminds me of the really cool (pun > intended..ouch) ice crystals I used to see about every year at my dad's > house. They formed on the north side of a hill. They were thin > needle-like crystal that grew about an inch in length. They all grew > parallel to each other forming these huge sheets. I had never seen > anything like that before and it always fascinated me. > > -Ron > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Alan Goldstein > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 2:17:43 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals > > > It got down in the 20's this morning. We had rain yesterday so the > grooves > in the tail gate's liner was wet. This morning I saw something I have > never > seen before - ice spears. There were crystals of ice sticking up at > various > angles as much as 8 cm long ranging from about 5 to 10 mm wide. Most > were > transparent and showed growth patterns via rows of tiny air bubbles. I > took > some pictures (they haven't been downloaded yet). That is the only way > I > could preserve them! > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kitty & Bill Heacox" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 2:01 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] Volcano activity (was) Quartz Crystal from Hawaii > ? > > >> It got down to 50 degrees F last night where we live, and this > morning >> it's 69. There are patches of snow visible on Mauna Kea, left from > snow >> that covered the summit down to the 9000 foot level a week ago. >> >> Lava from Pu'u O'o has not been going into the ocean for some time, > but >> it's spreading overland from a fissure that opened---and is > named---July >> 21. So far no homes are threatened. There are some good pictures at > the >> following site: >> http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/kilauea/update/images.html >> It's worth clicking on the pictures to see them full-size, and you > can >> click again for slight further enlargement. If you click on Image >> Archives, you can look back by year to 1997. Some of those include >> spectacular views of lava going into the ocean. Just for the heck of > it, >> I just clicked on October 2002 and there are some real goodies. >> >> Happy day-after-Thanksgiving, and aloha, Kitty >> >> At 08:19 AM 11/23/2007, you wrote: >>>Looking out the window at the heavy frost covered roofs (lows in the > low >>>teens, highs in the low 30s) and mountains turning whiter each day, > I'm >>>jealous. >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>Lanny >>> >>>On Nov 22, 2007, at 12:31 PM, Kitty & Bill Heacox wrote: >>> >>>>Wow, Lanny, you certainly found enough evidence to prove me > completely >>>>wrong! Mea culpa. Thanks for the research. Now I have new places > to >>>>look for something other than basalt! >>>> >>>>Aloha, Kitty >>>> >>>>At 07:46 AM 11/22/2007, you wrote: >>>>>A search of MinDex yielded the following references from the > mineral >>>>>magazines over the past years. Although only one of these > specifically >>>>>list the sizes of the quartz crystals, at least they indicate some >>>>>possibilities. Some of these articles also mention that there are >>>>>several localities on the island that produce zeolites and other >>>>>minerals. >>>>> >>>>>Regards, >>>>> >>>>>Lanny >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Nov 23 23:15:03 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Nov 23 23:15:13 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals In-Reply-To: <003b01c82e68$1d4114a0$6f5fe842@Titans> References: <4265.86389.qm@web83514.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <003b01c82e68$1d4114a0$6f5fe842@Titans> Message-ID: <4747CF77.9020501@verizon.net> Wayne Rasmussen wrote: > In this area ( Eastern Oregon ) those Ice sheets are caused by fog, the > Ice forms of the back side of most things from the general wind > direction. Quite interesting alright for sure. Indeed, I had never seen "freezing fog" until I moved to the Pacific NW. I have seen crystals up to 2cm long form on trees, bushes, and grass. Don From cscrystals2 at verizon.net Sat Nov 24 04:53:09 2007 From: cscrystals2 at verizon.net (Carolyn & Steve Weinberger) Date: Sat Nov 24 04:51:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 42, Issue 26 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EC602B2-92A5-48C1-BDA2-D48DB6763E0F@verizon.net> Candace, You might try visiting one or more of the clubs in Northern California. To find which are close to where you are, go to and click on "clubs". C On Nov 23, 2007, at 11:41 PM, Cneff2002@aol.com wrote: > I am looking to find mutual rockhouds in Northern Ca > Can you direct me to any? > > Thanks > Candace > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of > 2007's hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007? > NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Sat Nov 24 05:18:56 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sat Nov 24 05:19:01 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals In-Reply-To: <003b01c82e68$1d4114a0$6f5fe842@Titans> References: <4265.86389.qm@web83514.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <003b01c82e68$1d4114a0$6f5fe842@Titans> Message-ID: <200711241318.lAODIw93026155@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I remember on the Palouse that the ice crystals used to form on the lee side of your vehicle's antenna as you were driving in that nasty freezing fog until either a. it broke off or b. you remembered to get out and knock the ice off of it. Usually a. happened the first time and b. thereafter :) Made a pretty (slick) show on the blacktop too. Have you ever seen a 1979 Chevy Impala wagon do three full 360's at 35 mph? I hadn't either! At 11:03 PM 11/23/2007, you wrote: >In this area ( Eastern Oregon ) those Ice sheets are caused by >fog, the Ice forms of the back side of most things from the general >wind direction. Quite interesting alright for sure. > >Wayne Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Nov 24 09:32:20 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Nov 24 09:32:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 42, Issue 26 In-Reply-To: <3EC602B2-92A5-48C1-BDA2-D48DB6763E0F@verizon.net> References: <3EC602B2-92A5-48C1-BDA2-D48DB6763E0F@verizon.net> Message-ID: <001401c82ebf$f75ce270$6401a8c0@AxelHP> My DIGESTion is fine and, since I lost quite some weight over the last two weeks, my VOLume is less of an ISSUE. My blood pressure would benefit greatly if I knew what this message was about. Since there 's no hint about that in the title I'll contribute to the discussion randomly ;-)))) Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Carolyn > & Steve Weinberger > Verzonden: zaterdag 24 november 2007 13:53 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 42, Issue 26 > > Candace, > > You might try visiting one or more of the clubs in Northern > California. To find which are close to where you are, go to > and click on "clubs". > > C > > On Nov 23, 2007, at 11:41 PM, Cneff2002@aol.com wrote: > > > I am looking to find mutual rockhouds in Northern Ca Can > you direct me > > to any? > > > > Thanks > > Candace > > > > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list > of 2007's > > hottest products. > > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007? > > NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sat Nov 24 09:42:54 2007 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Nov 24 09:43:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADMIN changing topic In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <473E5FB0000A74EF@n126.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added by postmaster@bouncemessage.net) Hi List, It seems it's time for me to remind everyone to change the topic in the Subject line to fit your message. For Digest users, this means you should change the Subject line every time you use . An accurate topic means more people are likely to read your message. And whenever a thread wanders far from the original topic, someone should change the title and add <(was)> before the old Subject. Aloha, Kitty (Admin Team Member) From albalmer at att.net Sat Nov 24 09:57:51 2007 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sat Nov 24 09:58:13 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 42, Issue 26 In-Reply-To: <001401c82ebf$f75ce270$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <3EC602B2-92A5-48C1-BDA2-D48DB6763E0F@verizon.net> <001401c82ebf$f75ce270$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 18:32:20 +0100, "Axel Emmermann" wrote: >My DIGESTion is fine and, since I lost quite some weight over the last two >weeks, my VOLume is less of an ISSUE. >My blood pressure would benefit greatly if I knew what this message was >about. Since there 's no hint about that in the title I'll contribute to the >discussion randomly ;-)))) > Looks like you're in fine fettle. I've not been paying proper attention to the list for a while, so a belated welcome back, and I'm glad you're recovering well. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From jg81638 at aol.com Sat Nov 24 10:11:18 2007 From: jg81638 at aol.com (jg81638@aol.com) Date: Sat Nov 24 10:11:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] ice crystals/ice spikes Message-ID: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com> Alan Goldstein wrote about finding "ice crystals" protruding from water frozen in a tail gate liner.? I bumped into this phenomena some years ago in the ice tray in my fridge and then,?around christmas 2003, I came across an article?in the end of year issue of New Scientist by? Valerie Jamieson reporting the investigations of Ken Libbrecht, a physicist at Cal Tech in Pasadena, who has found out why these things called "ice spikes" form.? The secret is in the anomalous property of water as it is cooled down to first get denser (as is normal for all other liquids ?) and then at 4? degrees centigrade to reverse this trend and begin ?to get less dense as the temperature?continues downward.? If the surface of the water freezes over before the rest of the water freezes then there is a pressure buildup under the "skin" that can raise a bulge in the ice that can sometimes grow into a spike.? The article then goes on to investigate the reasons for this particular form of ice to occur.? The issue of New Scientist is dated 20/27 December/3 January 2004 and the page number is 38.? If you don't have access to a file of the magazine you might be able to?see?the article at their web site www.newscientist.com?? Might? liven?up your christmas party this year if you make a whole set of spiky ice cubes for the drinks!?????????????????????????? Jim Groves?????? ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Nov 24 10:30:40 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Nov 24 10:30:41 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel & Kreigh (was) Kryptonite {was: Axel's back!!!!} In-Reply-To: <4742EEDE000518BE@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP><474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net><002e01c82e06$f5f7d340$6401a8c0@AxelHP><4747AB33.2385@Tomaszewski.net> <4742EEDE000518BE@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) Message-ID: <001901c82ec8$1de36d80$6401a8c0@AxelHP> >It would keep all 500 or so of us Rockhound > List members entertained, enlightened, and---mostly---laughing! You hear that Kreigh? We're the rockhound equivalent of Abbot & Costello (LOL) > Keep it up guys! If > we're all going to live forever! Glad to be of service ;-))) Cheers Axel > Aloha, Kitty > > At 06:44 PM 11/23/2007, you wrote: > >Axel, > > > >You have to face reality as consistently documented (in comics and > >movies {and the Wikipedia article is actually pretty good too}). I > >don't think your theory works. > > > >Kryptonite comes in many bright colors; green, red, gold, blue, and > >white. Black can be made by superheating green, but it is > not a natural > >form. It usually appears to fluoresce from its internally generated > >radiation (a slow decay since it appears stable, somewhat > like uranium) > >that does not affect humans. > > > >You must be wrong about the electron shells; I would expect > it to fill > >them in order as that usually gives the lowest overall > energy, and you > >only need to worry about the outer (valence) electrons under normal > >conditions. > > > >BTW, Kryptonite was formed when the planet of Krypton exploded. The > >-ite ending came from Astronomy (Hi Bill!, I think you will > like this > >one...). A meteroid is a rock floating in space, a meteor is one > >streaking thru the atmosphere, and a meteorite is one that > has fallen > >to earth. The -ite ending identifies a chunk of rock from > Krypton that > >fell to Earth. And since God created the heavens before the > earth, geologists > >use the astronomical nomenclature. ;-} > > > >I hope I have brought a smile to your face to help your > healing. It is > >good to have you back Friend Axel. > > > >Kreigh > > > >P.S., is it true you are affected by Kryptonite? Maybe we should > >discuss the evidence off-list... > > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Nov 24 11:04:52 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Nov 24 11:04:53 2007 Subject: Kryptonite {was: Re: [Rockhounds] Axel's back!!!!} In-Reply-To: <4747AB33.2385@Tomaszewski.net> References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net><002e01c82e06$f5f7d340$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <4747AB33.2385@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001a01c82ecc$e49a6970$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Kreigh, > You have to face reality as consistently documented (in > comics and movies I do, Kreigh, I do.... I sure hope that we get a COLD winter or next year the spidermen will be even bigger than they already are. >{and the Wikipedia article is actually > pretty good too}). I don't think your theory works. > Kryptonite comes in many bright colors; green, red, gold, > blue, and white. Oh yes, but only the chunks that landed on earth recently. The C-centers from the cosmic radiation haven't had time to anneal yet. Long stay in sea water yields white kryptonite, I'm told. This is a result of continous licking by vegetarian sharks who mistake the green crystals for sea-broccoli, a yet to be discovered species. > Black can be made by superheating green, but > it is not a natural form. It usually appears to fluoresce > from its internally generated radiation (a slow decay since > it appears stable, somewhat like uranium) Right on! I had one sitting on my TV set... Nice pulsing ambient light but it hindered reception of all channels except the Discovery Channel on which huge tattooed guys fabricate totally useless testosterone-driven vehicles. I had to give it away. > You must be wrong about the electron shells; I would expect > it to fill them in order as that usually gives the lowest > overall energy, and you only need to worry about the outer > (valence) electrons under normal conditions. Yes, but that leaves the penultimate shell incomplete. The further you go away from the nucleus, the more chance of this happening. I have some software somewhere that visualises this... I'll try to get you the link once I'm completely pain-free (can't sit up too long without rest yet ;-))) > BTW, Kryptonite was formed when the planet of Krypton > exploded. The -ite ending came from Astronomy (Hi Bill!, I > think you will like this one...). Oh, Bill did it! That makes sense, you should have told me at the beginning.... Of the discussion, I don't mean Big Bang. > A meteroid is a rock > floating in space, I thought it was a meter-like being of the ether... > a meteor is one streaking Running naked in public place to shock or amuse the crowds... >thru the > atmosphere, and a meteorite is one that has fallen to earth. > The -ite ending identifies a chunk of rock from Krypton that > fell to Earth. And since God created the heavens before the > earth, geologists > use the astronomical nomenclature. ;-} OK, I fold. You win this one but this ain't over by far (ROFLMAO). > > I hope I have brought a smile to your face to help your > healing. It is good to have you back Friend Axel. The smile is big enough to make the corners of my mouth meet behind my head. Yes, now I can suck on my ears. Somehow I can feel the warmth of that last remark beaming off my computer screen. Good to be back, Kreigh, my friend. Kitty is right, you know ;-))) > P.S., is it true you are affected by Kryptonite? Maybe we > should discuss the evidence off-list... Yeah, I can hear the laughter but there's also some grinding of teeth over so much frivolousness from our part, I can imagine. Take care Axel From corson at infodyn.com Sat Nov 24 13:38:28 2007 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Sat Nov 24 13:39:23 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: New website online and sale! Message-ID: <00ff01c82ee2$5a1c9b90$610fa8c0@Grimble> Hi all, Well, after many months and a heck of a lot of work my mineral specimen web site is now fully online. http://www.obgrocks.com/ As a Grand Opening incentive I am offering 15% off on everything (specimens, tools, and accessories) through 12/15/07. I offer a "no questions asked" return policy on all online purchases, see the site for details... Please do give it a look! Even if you are not currently interested in buying anything, I have hundreds of mineral photos online for your viewing pleasure... Thanks and Happy Holidays, Tom Corson PS: The site, being new, is a work in progress. Constructive comments and suggestions are always welcome! ________________________________ Thomas W. Corson OBG International corson@infodyn.com 2435 E Mayview Drive 520-225-0244 Green Valley, AZ 85614 http://www.obgrocks.com World Class Minerals For World Class Collectors ________________________________ From kadok at infowest.com Sat Nov 24 13:40:37 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sat Nov 24 13:40:17 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel & Kreigh (was) Kryptonite {was: Axel's back!!!!} In-Reply-To: <4742EEDE000518BE@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) References: <001a01c82d26$a076da50$6401a8c0@AxelHP><474653BC.1CAD@Tomaszewski.net><002e01c82e06$f5f7d340$6401a8c0@AxelHP><4747AB33.2385@Tomaszewski.net> <4742EEDE000518BE@n054.sc0.he.tucows.com> (added bypostmaster@bouncemessage.net) Message-ID: <002301c82ee2$a6b697d0$0200a8c0@kadok> I am with you, Kitty! We've gotta do it! Margaret Subject: [Rockhounds] Axel & Kreigh (was) Kryptonite {was: Axel's back!!!!} Hey List: We have to find a way to get Axel and Kreigh to meet in person! Maybe with a camera feed to a site where we all can all watch, or at least a recording that can be transcribed for posting. It would keep all 500 or so of us Rockhound List members entertained, enlightened, and---mostly---laughing! Keep it up guys! If we're all going to live forever! Aloha, Kitty At 06:44 PM 11/23/2007, you wrote: >Axel, > >You have to face reality as consistently documented (in comics and >movies {and the Wikipedia article is actually pretty good too}). I don't >think your theory works. > >Kryptonite comes in many bright colors; green, red, gold, blue, and >white. Black can be made by superheating green, but it is not a natural >form. It usually appears to fluoresce from its internally generated >radiation (a slow decay since it appears stable, somewhat like uranium) >that does not affect humans. > >You must be wrong about the electron shells; I would expect it to fill >them in order as that usually gives the lowest overall energy, and you >only need to worry about the outer (valence) electrons under normal >conditions. > >BTW, Kryptonite was formed when the planet of Krypton exploded. The -ite >ending came from Astronomy (Hi Bill!, I think you will like this >one...). A meteroid is a rock floating in space, a meteor is one >streaking thru the atmosphere, and a meteorite is one that has fallen to >earth. The -ite ending identifies a chunk of rock from Krypton that fell >to Earth. And since God created the heavens before the earth, geologists >use the astronomical nomenclature. ;-} > >I hope I have brought a smile to your face to help your healing. It is >good to have you back Friend Axel. > >Kreigh > >P.S., is it true you are affected by Kryptonite? Maybe we should discuss >the evidence off-list... > > > >Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > > I think Density is the correct term, but I liked Specific > > > Mass because it implies it is independent of the gravity of > > > whatever planet or moon you might be on. Specific Gravity > > > ties you to one planet (Earth). > > > > It IS why I went wrong ;-))) > > It's the logic of mass being universal against gravity being local. > > > > > Element 126 is supposed to be in the middle of an 'island of > > > stability' > > > in the periodic table where only 184 neutrons would be needed > > > to balance the 126 protons. Both are 'magic' numbers leading > > > to an especially dense packing of the nucleus because the > > > binding energy of each nucleon is at a local minimum. > > > > You would indeed encounter heavy but stable isotopes. Still, a slow moving > > neutron hitting the nucleus of element 126 would probably be energetic > > enough to induce fission. That is probably the reason that these > > mammoth-elements do not occur in nature although they are stable. > > It seems that there is at least on more island of stability even further on > > the periodic table. > > > > > The unusually compact nucleus should allow for a more compact > > > electron shell as well. > > > > I doubt that it would be enough to counter the shielding effect of 126 > > electrons. The inner ones would be buzzing around frantically but if you > > apply the rule that you must fill the sub shells with electrons > in the order > > of climbing energy you would see many incomplete shells... The repelling > > forced exerted on the outermost electrons would counter the effect of a > > compact nucleus, or so I believe. > > I'll meet you half way... Neutral buoyancy? > > > > >Besides, Kryptonite meteorites were > > > recovered from the ocean bottom in several comics, so it does > > > not float. > > > > Hahahaha LOL... no, ROFLMAO .... GOOD ONE... Ouch, my bypasses are coming > > apart at the seams... > > > > > And then 'real' Kryptonite was found, matching the chemical > > > formula given in later Superman stories > > > http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=5105 > > > but it turned out to be white. Go figure. > > > > Hm, if I'm right about the numerous unfilled electron shells then this > > element would be able to absorb many different wavelengths of light and > > would therefore be black or very dark in color. Sorry to disagree > (oh boy, I > > missed a good discussion last two weeks. Thanks Kreigh) > > > > > BTW, I worked at a comic book store for over 10 years in my past. > > > > Somehow these comics seem to have been very educational ;-)))) > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Nov 24 16:02:02 2007 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Nov 24 16:02:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] northern California Message-ID: On Nov 23, 2007 8:41 PM, wrote: > I am looking to find mutual rockhouds in Northern Ca > Can you direct me to any? > I'm in Chico but northern CA is a big place. There's a rock and gem club in Paradise and another around Redding. Contact me direct if those areas interest you. Grant From roughrock at gmail.com Sat Nov 24 16:21:53 2007 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Sat Nov 24 16:21:59 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartzsite & Clouds jamboree Message-ID: I'm looking forward to going to Quartzsite and Clouds Jamboree again this year. I missed both of them last year because of a badly injured budget. This year I'll go to one of the shows, maybe Avi, then on Jan 18, 19, & 20 I'll stop at the Blythe Bluegrass Festival before going on to Quartzsite. Will anybody else be down there on those dates? Grant Johnston From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Sat Nov 24 19:32:15 2007 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Sat Nov 24 19:31:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice spikes References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> It makes sense because my tailgater line is black plastic. The water on the surface would freeze first while the black liner radiated a small amount of heat from absorbing solar energy. Eventually the water on the bottom cooled down, but not before pressure built up causing the spikes to grow. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: jg81638@aol.com To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Cc: jg81638@aol.com ; deepskyspy@insightbb.com Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 1:11 PM Subject: ice crystals/ice spikes Alan Goldstein wrote about finding "ice crystals" protruding from water frozen in a tail gate liner. I bumped into this phenomena some years ago in the ice tray in my fridge and then, around christmas 2003, I came across an article in the end of year issue of New Scientist by Valerie Jamieson reporting the investigations of Ken Libbrecht, a physicist at Cal Tech in Pasadena, who has found out why these things called "ice spikes" form. The secret is in the anomalous property of water as it is cooled down to first get denser (as is normal for all other liquids ?) and then at 4 degrees centigrade to reverse this trend and begin to get less dense as the temperature continues downward. If the surface of the water freezes over before the rest of the water freezes then there is a pressure buildup under the "skin" that can raise a bulge in the ice that can sometimes grow into a spike. The article then goes on to investigate the reasons for this particular form of ice to occur. The issue of New Scientist is dated 20/27 December/3 January 2004 and the page number is 38. If you don't have access to a file of the magazine you might be able to see the article at their web site www.newscientist.com Might liven up your christmas party this year if you make a whole set of spiky ice cubes for the drinks! Jim Groves ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Nov 24 20:55:01 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Nov 24 20:56:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <001f01c82d21$b834d520$6501a8c0@astound.net><54d4a88f0711221022k3fcf3698wf5513490f6c72709@mail.gmail.com> <4745CFBA.4070408@verizon.net> Message-ID: <010101c82f1f$5af75770$0200a8c0@Notebook> Would you believe an 88 Acura Legend with 265,000 miles on it? This puppy hauls two people, three 80lb dogs, half a cord of firewood and all the rocks we can gather. A few years back and 50 miles out of Prineville, Oregon we bottomed out and tore out the oil plug. I coasted down the hill and stuck a stick in the oil pan. Then dumped in a pint of break fluid. A few miles down the road some campers gave us a half gallon of chainsaw bar oil and a quart of transmission fluid. We drove back to Prineville, changed the oil the next day and it's run like a charm ever since. John From kcbaran at arczip.com Sat Nov 24 23:25:48 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Sat Nov 24 23:33:02 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <010101c82f1f$5af75770$0200a8c0@Notebook> References: <001f01c82d21$b834d520$6501a8c0@astound.net><54d4a88f0711221022k3fcf3698wf5513490f6c72709@mail.gmail.com> <4745CFBA.4070408@verizon.net> <010101c82f1f$5af75770$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <4749237C.40500@arczip.com> Gives new meaning to holding it together with bailing wire and duct tape. Chuck John Siebel wrote: > Would you believe an 88 Acura Legend with 265,000 miles on it? This > puppy hauls two people, three 80lb dogs, half a cord of firewood and > all the rocks we can gather. A few years back and 50 miles out of > Prineville, Oregon we bottomed out and tore out the oil plug. I > coasted down the hill and stuck a stick in the oil pan. Then dumped in > a pint of break fluid. A few miles down the road some campers gave us > a half gallon of chainsaw bar oil and a quart of transmission fluid. > We drove back to Prineville, changed the oil the next day and it's run > like a charm ever since. > > John > From wdeanwelder at yahoo.com Sun Nov 25 08:34:32 2007 From: wdeanwelder at yahoo.com (Dean Welder) Date: Sun Nov 25 08:34:38 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re:Northern Cal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <945411.82373.qm@web51106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Cneff2002@aol.com wrote: > I am looking to find mutual rockhouds in Northern Ca > Can you direct me to any? > > Thanks > Candace Candace, there are many of us in Northern California, for it is a very large place ;-). I saw a couple of replies already, and here is one more. There are a couple of yahoogroups "specializing" in various NorCal areas. One is NorCal-Rocks@yahoogroups.com, there is centralcoastrockhounds@yahoogroups.com, and mendocountyrockhounds@yahoogroups.com and goldcountryrocks@yahoogroups.com to name a few. I'm a member of Santa Clara Valley Mineral (field trip chair and board member) & Gem Society and the Santa Cruz Gem & Mineral Society (field trip chair, a past president and past board member). There are something like a dozen clubs in areas surrounding the SF Bay. So, a good bet is to go find a club in your area. Good luck! Dean Need rockhound tools? Like Estwing Hammers & Chisels, or the infamous Gem Scoop? How about a Vibrating Tumbler or Tumbling/Polishing Grit? Please visit http://www.peregrine-rocks.com/rocksmin.shtml ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ From wdeanwelder at yahoo.com Sun Nov 25 09:15:21 2007 From: wdeanwelder at yahoo.com (Dean Welder) Date: Sun Nov 25 09:15:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> Message-ID: <111775.52711.qm@web51108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Charles Baran wrote: > Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. > My > wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 > > and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no > problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small > interior...I > don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... One more late reply. Our primary rockhounding vehicle is a 1993 Ford F250 4x4 supercab longbed (with ~180,000 miles), and 460 V8 (gets 10MPG no matter what we're hauling, except when doing 75MPH on the AZ highways). We have an Alaskan Camper (http://www.alaskancamper.com) on it for "living" while in the great outdoors. There are two nice things about the Alaskan: 1) The low center of gravity (compared to other fullsize campers) and 2) The hard walls (compared to other off-road campers) don't flap during windy nights. We run BFG Mud TA tires. We have a custom tube bumper with a Warn 8000# (should be a 12K but the 8 is what I had and haven't had the budget to replace it) winch. This truck has been all over the west camping and rockhounding from Oregon to the edge of the Rio Grande to Denver (driving through a state-of-emergency-blizzard). The transmission in our truck recently died and is getting replaced. We have been considering getting an F450 or F350 diesel as a replacement in a couple of years. Dean Need rockhound tools? Like Estwing Hammers & Chisels, or the infamous Gem Scoop? How about a Vibrating Tumbler or Tumbling/Polishing Grit? Please visit http://www.peregrine-rocks.com/rocksmin.shtml ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Sun Nov 25 21:24:09 2007 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Sun Nov 25 21:25:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals References: <4265.86389.qm@web83514.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><003b01c82e68$1d4114a0$6f5fe842@Titans> <200711241318.lAODIw93026155@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001f01c82fec$c5da8940$715fe842@Titans> Tim, And.........what about the car seat ? Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 6:18 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals >I remember on the Palouse that the ice crystals used to form on the lee >side of your vehicle's antenna as you were driving in that nasty freezing >fog until either a. it broke off or b. you remembered to get out and knock >the ice off of it. Usually a. happened the first time and b. thereafter :) >Made a pretty (slick) show on the blacktop too. Have you ever seen a 1979 >Chevy Impala wagon do three full 360's at 35 mph? I hadn't either! > > At 11:03 PM 11/23/2007, you wrote: >>In this area ( Eastern Oregon ) those Ice sheets are caused by fog, the >>Ice forms of the back side of most things from the general wind direction. >>Quite interesting alright for sure. >> >>Wayne > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From tomrbowers at yahoo.com Sun Nov 25 21:58:42 2007 From: tomrbowers at yahoo.com (Tom Bowers) Date: Sun Nov 25 21:58:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartzsite & Clouds jamboree In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <503529.73532.qm@web36804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Grant, This will be the first year that my wife and I are retired and we plan on making our first trip out that way. We have no idea as to what is the best time to be there or what we will need to do about motel/camping arrangements. One thing I'd like to try is some of my own hunting in the area. Is there someplace that novices to Quartzite/Clouds like ourselves can write/look to get some info so we can plan our trip? Then, yes we may be there at that time. Tom Grant Johnston wrote: I'm looking forward to going to Quartzsite and Clouds Jamboree again this year. I missed both of them last year because of a badly injured budget. This year I'll go to one of the shows, maybe Avi, then on Jan 18, 19, & 20 I'll stop at the Blythe Bluegrass Festival before going on to Quartzsite. Will anybody else be down there on those dates? Grant Johnston -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tomrbowers at yahoo.com Sun Nov 25 22:16:34 2007 From: tomrbowers at yahoo.com (Tom Bowers) Date: Sun Nov 25 22:16:36 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, I couldn't get along with just one vehicle, so I have two. My ol' faithful is a 2001 Ford F150 4x4 supercab. I love this for getting around most every place I need to go and having lots of hauling capacity to fill up. But, this last year I bought a 1996 Jeep Wrangler 4 cyl. to get me to the totally off-road locations in the mountainous W. Tx. desert areas (Brewster County). I really bought it more for deer hunting, but it makes one heck of an off-road rock hunting vehicle as well. I have a trailer hitch so that I can haul a trailer to the point where I need to proceed off-road. I unload the trailer at that spot and fill it up with the goodies when I return from a given leg of my exploration. Almost all of Texas land is private, but I hunt on the land that I hunt deer on. I can't wait to try it out this coming year on some BLM lands in other nearby (or far away) states. Tom Bowers Alan Silverstein wrote: > If I would have known 7 years ago that I was going to move out here, I > would have opted for the Subaru Forester. Not a bad choice, but check the cargo capacity... After wearing out a 1991 Subaru Loyale wagon (original owner, it had 100 CF if I recall right), and shopping around, 1.5 years ago I ended up buying a nearly new Subaru Outback wagon (97 CF I think). Both of them go almost everywhere. Fine ground clearance and cargo space for the size and MPGs. Too bad no granny gear in the 4WD or they could climb a lot steeper. Too bad they rounded all the sides and edges to give up more cargo capacity. Now, the new Outback is a lot plusher, quieter, and feature-rich, but it gets lower MPGs (only 25-27 not 29-30). Long ago I bought an old 2-ton 360 V8 Jeep Wagoneer, green beast, I called it Triceratops. It could go anywhere, except deep snow, so long as the tranny shift linkage didn't bounce disconnected... Now my spare vehicle is an older Toyota pickup truck, "power nothing", but oh man can it handle serious 4WD. However, while I use it occasionally for hauling "stuff" around, I don't really NEED it for rockhounding! Cheers, Alan Silverstein -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Mon Nov 26 02:08:54 2007 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Mon Nov 26 03:26:55 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals References: <4265.86389.qm@web83514.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><003b01c82e68$1d4114a0$6f5fe842@Titans><200711241318.lAODIw93026155@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <001f01c82fec$c5da8940$715fe842@Titans> Message-ID: <000401c8301f$3568a8f0$974cd0c4@federatiydq01o> Hi everybody, Where I saw some ice crystals is on Mt. Washington (NH) (November 1983). This is the site where the highest wind speed in the USA was ever measured - 231 miles per hour somewhere in the 1930's. These crystals were about 6 inches long, lying horizontally protruding from wooden bollards. These ice crystals (can you call them that or are they juzt icicles?) were caused by the condensation of fog and the wind action. Mt. Washington is the highest mountain in the eastern part of the USA. Horst ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Rasmussen" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 7:24 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals > Tim, > > And.........what about the car seat ? > > Wayne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Fisher" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 6:18 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals > > >>I remember on the Palouse that the ice crystals used to form on the lee >>side of your vehicle's antenna as you were driving in that nasty freezing >>fog until either a. it broke off or b. you remembered to get out and knock >>the ice off of it. Usually a. happened the first time and b. thereafter :) >>Made a pretty (slick) show on the blacktop too. Have you ever seen a 1979 >>Chevy Impala wagon do three full 360's at 35 mph? I hadn't either! >> >> At 11:03 PM 11/23/2007, you wrote: >>>In this area ( Eastern Oregon ) those Ice sheets are caused by fog, the >>>Ice forms of the back side of most things from the general wind >>>direction. Quite interesting alright for sure. >>> >>>Wayne >> >> Tim Fisher >> Ore-ROCK-On! >> Email address at http://OreRockOn.com >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: > 269.16.0/1139 - Release Date: 19/11/2007 12:35 > From nospam at orerockon.com Mon Nov 26 04:32:54 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Nov 26 04:33:34 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals In-Reply-To: <001f01c82fec$c5da8940$715fe842@Titans> References: <4265.86389.qm@web83514.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <003b01c82e68$1d4114a0$6f5fe842@Titans> <200711241318.lAODIw93026155@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <001f01c82fec$c5da8940$715fe842@Titans> Message-ID: <200711261232.lAQCWtTN006492@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Never you mind! At 09:24 PM 11/25/2007, you wrote: >Tim, > >And.........what about the car seat ? > >Wayne > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 6:18 AM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ice crystals > > >>I remember on the Palouse that the ice crystals used to form on the >>lee side of your vehicle's antenna as you were driving in that >>nasty freezing fog until either a. it broke off or b. you >>remembered to get out and knock the ice off of it. Usually a. >>happened the first time and b. thereafter :) Made a pretty (slick) >>show on the blacktop too. Have you ever seen a 1979 Chevy Impala >>wagon do three full 360's at 35 mph? I hadn't either! Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From prgilmore at hotmail.com Mon Nov 26 10:09:16 2007 From: prgilmore at hotmail.com (Paul Gilmore) Date: Mon Nov 26 10:09:20 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com> <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Folks: This is a very timely thread. I am planning my next vehicle (aren't we always?) to handle the poor roads of back country mineral collecting on long trips. Having bottomed out and lost an oil filter once, I am looking for good ground clearance. Having shredded the drive tire of a pick-up truck rental, I am very concerned about tough tires. I would like to be able to sleep in my vehicle if necessary, so the truck-tent concept is an interesting one. Finally, reliability is paramount since I am not an auto mechanic. Questions: If I use a pickup truck cargo bed to camp in, won't I be short of storage space for specimen tonnage? Why does a Jeep Wrangler get you places that an F-150 may not? Is there an SUV that is built on a truck chassis that doesn't cost as much as two trucks? Can you have reliability, decent gas mileage, ground clearance, storage space and room to stretch out and sleep (if necessary)? Most people sound happy with what they've got. What vehicle would you own if a genie were granting wishes? (Free colonoscopies for helpful suggestions.) Paul Gilmore (MD) > Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:16:34 -0800> From: tomrbowers@yahoo.com> To: ajs@frii.com; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> CC: > Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > > Well, I couldn't get along with just one vehicle, so I have two. My ol' faithful is a 2001 Ford F150 4x4 supercab. I love this for getting around most every place I need to go and having lots of hauling capacity to fill up. But, this last year I bought a 1996 Jeep Wrangler 4 cyl. to get me to the totally off-road locations in the mountainous W. Tx. desert areas (Brewster County). I really bought it more for deer hunting, but it makes one heck of an off-road rock hunting vehicle as well. I have a trailer hitch so that I can haul a trailer to the point where I need to proceed off-road. I unload the trailer at that spot and fill it up with the goodies when I return from a given leg of my exploration. Almost all of Texas land is private, but I hunt on the land that I hunt deer on. I can't wait to try it out this coming year on some BLM lands in other nearby (or far away) states.> > Tom Bowers> > Alan Silverstein wrote:> > If I would have known 7 years ago that I was going to move out here, I> > would have opted for the Subaru Forester.> > Not a bad choice, but check the cargo capacity... After wearing out a> 1991 Subaru Loyale wagon (original owner, it had 100 CF if I recall> right), and shopping around, 1.5 years ago I ended up buying a nearly> new Subaru Outback wagon (97 CF I think). Both of them go almost> everywhere. Fine ground clearance and cargo space for the size and> MPGs. Too bad no granny gear in the 4WD or they could climb a lot> steeper. Too bad they rounded all the sides and edges to give up more> cargo capacity.> > Now, the new Outback is a lot plusher, quieter, and feature-rich, but it> gets lower MPGs (only 25-27 not 29-30).> > Long ago I bought an old 2-ton 360 V8 Jeep Wagoneer, green beast, I> called it Triceratops. It could go anywhere, except deep snow, so long> as the tranny shift linkage didn't bounce disconnected...> > Now my spare vehicle is an older Toyota pickup truck, "power nothing",> but oh man can it handle serious 4WD. However, while I use it> occasionally for hauling "stuff" around, I don't really NEED it for> rockhounding!> > Cheers,> Alan Silverstein> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html> > > > ---------------------------------> Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i?m Initiative now. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Mon Nov 26 10:22:36 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Mon Nov 26 10:22:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20071126182236.A63381CC35@io.frii.com> Paul et al, > Can you have reliability, decent gas mileage, ground clearance, > storage space and room to stretch out and sleep (if necessary)? I doubt it. That said, Toyota trucks are noted for their reliability, and I can attest to that since I bought my small one used at 66K miles about 6 years ago. Haven't put a lot of miles on it, but it's been rugged, reliable, and easy to maintain. It gets 22-25 MPG, is that "good"? I don't think so, but it's not bad for the size and weight. However, it's only a 6-foot bed. For sleeping in it, and for cargo space, you really need 8-foot. Yes, a rigid, locking camper shell with vent windows is an additional must. Ensure you can lock/unlock it from the inside too, not sure how that might work, mine has no such feature. > Most people sound happy with what they've got. What vehicle would you > own if a genie were granting wishes? A bigger (but not too big) 8-foot-bed truck with a king cab (some rear seating) and a real door (not just windows) into the camper shell; in other words something like an SUV or microbus really, but on a truck chassis. AND it must get 30+ MPG, which is asking for the impossible unless maybe it's a hybrid. Gotta have power door locks, windows, and steering too, but I don't care too much about manual versus automatic tranny. My old truck has manual locking hubs, so throw in electric hubs so you can shift in/out of 4WD from the cab. Serious 4WD people also want a built-in winch, tow kit, etc. Haven't much needed those, fortunately. > (Free colonoscopies for helpful suggestions.) Be careful what you offer, I'm nearing 52 and I gotta get me one of them soon (sigh). Cheers, Alan Silverstein From kugeln at peoplepc.com Mon Nov 26 11:05:40 2007 From: kugeln at peoplepc.com (kugeln@peoplepc.com) Date: Mon Nov 26 11:05:44 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <20071126182236.A63381CC35@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <004d01c8305f$57c34320$e1b45545@JOHN> I currently use a Jeep Liberty, which has served me well, as did the Isuzu Rodeo I used formerly. At 73 I usually stay in motels, but camp sometimes. For one thing, the time available in a day hardly allows for setting up camp, finding the locality, collecting, and cooking. John Stockwell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Silverstein" To: ; ; Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > Paul et al, > >> Can you have reliability, decent gas mileage, ground clearance, >> storage space and room to stretch out and sleep (if necessary)? > > I doubt it. That said, Toyota trucks are noted for their reliability, > and I can attest to that since I bought my small one used at 66K miles > about 6 years ago. Haven't put a lot of miles on it, but it's been > rugged, reliable, and easy to maintain. > > It gets 22-25 MPG, is that "good"? I don't think so, but it's not bad > for the size and weight. However, it's only a 6-foot bed. For sleeping > in it, and for cargo space, you really need 8-foot. Yes, a rigid, > locking camper shell with vent windows is an additional must. Ensure > you can lock/unlock it from the inside too, not sure how that might > work, mine has no such feature. > >> Most people sound happy with what they've got. What vehicle would you >> own if a genie were granting wishes? > > A bigger (but not too big) 8-foot-bed truck with a king cab (some rear > seating) and a real door (not just windows) into the camper shell; in > other words something like an SUV or microbus really, but on a truck > chassis. AND it must get 30+ MPG, which is asking for the impossible > unless maybe it's a hybrid. Gotta have power door locks, windows, and > steering too, but I don't care too much about manual versus automatic > tranny. > > My old truck has manual locking hubs, so throw in electric hubs so you > can shift in/out of 4WD from the cab. > > Serious 4WD people also want a built-in winch, tow kit, etc. Haven't > much needed those, fortunately. > >> (Free colonoscopies for helpful suggestions.) > > Be careful what you offer, I'm nearing 52 and I gotta get me one of them > soon (sigh). > > Cheers, > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Ted at crystalgems.com Mon Nov 26 12:14:36 2007 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Mon Nov 26 12:14:44 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com><380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00b301c83068$f7748600$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> Paul: I can pass on your free offer; I don't have to go back for a big C for another 5 years and I'm not interested in rushing it. Personal opinions time: Only you can decide what will be your best compromise. Choosing your adventure vehicle ends up similar to decision by committee. Do you want a vehicle to sleep in, carry heavy objects, tow items, travel off road, go dune hopping and/or just generally tool around town in it? Do you need extra ground clearance, roll bars, mud wheels, and a locking rear? Last in your decision tree is the gas mileage, yeah you can pick the best mileage out of the vehicles that meet your needs, but after you meet your needs. While there is no need to buy an overpowered beast, buying underpowered vehicles rarely helps your mileage or your temper. So to start answering some parts of your questions, but still in the realm of personal opinions: The jeep has a shorter and narrower wheel track; both help with off road maneuvering in that it is easier to drive around obstacles than to go over them. One of the critical features for off-roading is ground clearance; don't take the manufacturers claims for granted though, get on the ground and look for your self. A number of vehicles can have lift kits installed, to get the best benefit in ground clearance from a lift kit requires new tires, bigger ones, and some lift kits allow tires as tall as 30-33 inches. I don't do any serious off roading like hill climbs or mud runs, but I put the largest tires I can fit on my unmodified truck. This last time, I bought Goodyear's Wrangler Silent armor tires, load size E with the Kevlar belts. So far, after 10,000 miles, I really like them. You can see a quick chart of SUV/truck tires at http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=ORAT (watch the cut and paste to get the whole link). I am not sure what the difference is between tents and tents attached to vehicles. But I can say that the longer you're on the road the less easy it is to sleep in the back, (Dang rocks keep getting in the way), but that could just be me. You could consider a vehicle where the seats adjust nearly flat for sleeping, but clothes changing and personal hygiene takes some physical adjustment and maneuvering. This past summer I bought a Paha Que tent and I believe is the best family type tent I've bought in the last 20 years, (since the old canvas Colemans). Paha Que does make a SUV tent http://www.pahaque.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PQWO&Pr oduct_Code=900-8000-000&Category_Code=TW (again watch that link cut and paste) or you could check out Cabelas truck tent http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=002 5872516446a&navCount=1&podId=0025872&parentId=cat602107&masterpathid=&navAct ion=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat20075-cat602107&catalogCode=IH&rid=&parentType=inde x&indexId=cat602107&hasJS=true (Now that's a really long link and will require several cut and pastes) I installed a camper cap. It allows me to lock the back. Really, it takes my GMC Sierra and emulates the GMC Yukon or Chevy Silverado. If I'm transporting tall items, I can remove the cap fairly easily. Camper caps are one of those things that truck owners get passionate about, almost as much as their trucks. I bought an A.R.E. http://www.4are.com/. Many of the SUV's built on truck chassis lose a lot of their premium over the first several years and are more reasonable in the used market. If a genie was bankrolling my dream rock collecting camper I think I'd go for a Chinook RV http://www.fretzrv.com/chinook/baja_std.html and I'd mount a dirt bike on the rear. Perhaps something like a BMW http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/bikes/bike.jsp?b=hp2 or maybe a nice ATV instead. Good luck and I'm sure whatever you choose, it'll be great. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmore Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 1:09 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors; ajs@frii.com Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Vehicles Folks: This is a very timely thread. I am planning my next vehicle (aren't we always?) to handle the poor roads of back country mineral collecting on long trips. Having bottomed out and lost an oil filter once, I am looking for good ground clearance. Having shredded the drive tire of a pick-up truck rental, I am very concerned about tough tires. I would like to be able to sleep in my vehicle if necessary, so the truck-tent concept is an interesting one. Finally, reliability is paramount since I am not an auto mechanic. Questions: If I use a pickup truck cargo bed to camp in, won't I be short of storage space for specimen tonnage? Why does a Jeep Wrangler get you places that an F-150 may not? Is there an SUV that is built on a truck chassis that doesn't cost as much as two trucks? Can you have reliability, decent gas mileage, ground clearance, storage space and room to stretch out and sleep (if necessary)? Most people sound happy with what they've got. What vehicle would you own if a genie were granting wishes? (Free colonoscopies for helpful suggestions.) Paul Gilmore (MD) From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Mon Nov 26 13:23:16 2007 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Rick Trapp) Date: Mon Nov 26 13:23:57 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com> <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <474B3944.8040403@azgs.az.gov> Folks: Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:16:34 -0800> From: tomrbowers@yahoo.com> To: ajs@frii.com; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> CC: > Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > > Well, I couldn't get along with just one vehicle, so I have two. My ol' faithful is a 2001 Ford F150 4x4 supercab. I love this for getting around most every place I need to go and having lots of hauling capacity to fill up. But, this last year I bought a 1996 Jeep Wrangler 4 cyl. to get me to the totally off-road locations in the mountainous W. Tx. desert areas (Brewster County). I really bought it more for deer hunting, but it makes one heck of an off-road rock hunting vehicle as well. I have a trailer hitch so that I can haul a trailer to the point where I need to wrote:> > If I would have known 7 years ago that I was going to move out here, I> > would have opted for the Subaru Forester.> > Not a bad choice, but check the cargo capacity... After wearing out a> 1991 Subaru Loyale wagon (original owner, it had 100 CF if I recall> right), and shopping around, 1.5 years ago I ended up buying a nearly> new Subaru Outback wagon (97 CF I think). Both of them go almost> everywhere. Fine ground clearance and cargo space for the size and> MPGs. Too bad no granny gear in the 4 http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/ > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html> > > > ---------------------------------> Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/in _________________________________________________________________ http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM -- rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From buff1 at ptd.net Mon Nov 26 13:32:13 2007 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Mon Nov 26 13:32:14 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartzsite & Clouds jamboree In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <474B3B5D.8080108@ptd.net> Grant Johnston wrote: >I'm looking forward to going to Quartzsite and Clouds Jamboree again >on to Quartzsite. > >Will anybody else be down there on those dates? > >Grant Johnston > > I too, would love to go to Quartzite. Never been there. They tell me it's nice. Is it "do-able" by way of train, or jet plane?? I realize this may come as somewhat of an odd question, but I am way east coast, and transportation is becoming a thing of luxury if you know what I mean. I dont suppose there is a "compendium" of web links anyone has that they would be willing to share w/ the group, in the interest of people like me?? Thanks Dennis Buffenmyer buff1@ptd.net From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Mon Nov 26 13:35:16 2007 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Rick Trapp) Date: Mon Nov 26 13:35:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com> <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <474B3C14.7040900@azgs.az.gov> Sorry for the last message, I think I cut out all the goofy parts this time. All of my opinions are based on camping and rockhounding in the deserts and mountains of the southwestern USA. 1. I have seen people put in a plywood floor above the bed of the truck for specimen and tool storage underneath. Most plastic liners have little notches in them to put crossbeams and make a false floor about 8-12 inches up. If you made the floor in two pieces you could access the front of the bed easier. Use at least 1" plywood on 2x4 braces. You'll still have about 3' of headroom in the shell. 2. Wheelbase length 3. Don't know that much about SUV's. 4. Yes, but you have to get a four-wheel drive package, which includes beefier suspension and skid plates, which are very important. If you are not much over 6 feet tall you can get the "6-foot bed", actually about 6'4" usually, If you are taller than that, you aren't going to fit into most SUV's (except the monsters) and you'll have to get the long bed pickup model which probably has a longer wheelbase (see #2 above). I would also highly recommend the "towing" package, which gives you better cooling and other nice features, not just a trailer hitch. Forget decent gas mileage if you want any kind of vehicle that will haul you and your rocks for trips that last a few days and will have enough power to get you in and out of the best spots (at least out here in the west). You might want to check out a low-boy pop-up camper that fits in the bed. My friend has a "big" Toyota pickup with one of those campers on the back and it has stove and a heater and some storage space and I've been pretty impressed with it. Always get an extended cab. You might not need the space for passengers, but it is really terrific for storage. You might see my message earlier in this thread for details about our setup which includes a tent that hooks to the back of the truck, allowing you to get into the back of the pickup from the tent. If you wanted to use the truck shell for equipment and storage you could get a cot and/or an air mattress and sleep in the tent instead of in the back of the truck. Any small tent you buy these days can be put up and taken down in 10 minutes or less. I prefer tents you can stand up in. Use backpacking tents for backpacking, not rockhounding. 5. I would take just about any 8 cylinder pickup truck with 4WD package and towing package. The shorter the bed length the more nimble it will be. I bought my F150 and a very good shell for a total of around $30,000 about 7 years ago. My wife tells me we're going to get a new truck next year. I expect to spend closer to $40,000 for it. I'm all up-to-date on my colonoscopies, but thanks anyway. One other thought is that you might get a diesel engine for better gas mileage. Paul Gilmore wrote: > Folks: > > This is a very timely thread. I am planning my next vehicle (aren't we always?) to handle the poor roads of back country mineral collecting on long trips. Having bottomed out and lost an oil filter once, I am looking for good ground clearance. Having shredded the drive tire of a pick-up truck rental, I am very concerned about tough tires. I would like to be able to sleep in my vehicle if necessary, so the truck-tent concept is an interesting one. Finally, reliability is paramount since I am not an auto mechanic. > > Questions: > > If I use a pickup truck cargo bed to camp in, won't I be short of storage space for specimen tonnage? > > Why does a Jeep Wrangler get you places that an F-150 may not? > > Is there an SUV that is built on a truck chassis that doesn't cost as much as two trucks? > > Can you have reliability, decent gas mileage, ground clearance, storage space and room to stretch out and sleep (if necessary)? > > Most people sound happy with what they've got. What vehicle would you own if a genie were granting wishes? > > (Free colonoscopies for helpful suggestions.) > > Paul Gilmore (MD) > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov From albalmer at att.net Mon Nov 26 14:08:44 2007 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Mon Nov 26 14:09:35 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartzsite & Clouds jamboree In-Reply-To: <474B3B5D.8080108@ptd.net> References: <474B3B5D.8080108@ptd.net> Message-ID: <12gmk3lpvmm1hoqaii026saflium29dprk@4ax.com> On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:32:13 -0500, Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: >Grant Johnston wrote: > >>I'm looking forward to going to Quartzsite and Clouds Jamboree again >>on to Quartzsite. >> >>Will anybody else be down there on those dates? >> >>Grant Johnston >> >> >I too, would love to go to Quartzite. Never been there. They tell me >it's nice. Is it "do-able" by way of train, or jet plane?? It is a fun place. It really is spelled Quartzsite, by the way - a old spelling error that stuck. No train or airport facilities. The best bet is to go to Phoenix (125 miles) or Yuma (70 miles) and rent a car. There are supposed to be lodging facilities, or if you want to rent an RV, the desert (BLM land) is free. There's a small airport in Blythe, CA, 25? miles away, but not for public carriers. >I realize this may come as somewhat of an odd question, but I am way >east coast, and transportation is becoming a thing of luxury if you know >what I mean. I dont suppose there is a "compendium" of web links anyone >has that they would be willing to share w/ the group, in the interest of >people like me?? The town has a web site. http://www.ci.quartzsite.az.us/ The Chamber of Commerce web site has all the show schedules and lots of other information: http://www.qzchamber.com/ And don't miss the Gem & Mineral Club pages: http://quartzsitegemandmineralclub.org/ Incidentally, I see they have a field trip to Crystal Hill scheduled for 11/27. I thought Crystal Hill was off limits for collecting now. Anybody know the story? -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From tjokela at execulink.com Mon Nov 26 16:16:52 2007 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Mon Nov 26 16:18:55 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> Lots of folks bragging about their massive trucks; wonder what they'll drive when oil hits $200 a barrel? Personally, the Ford Taurus works fine for what little field collecting I do. Massive storage space and tows the little trailer nicely. Hauled seventy flats in it this weekend, could get that up to a hundred if I really crammed 'em in. I suspect that the minority of collectors actually do a lot of heavy-duty offroading; surely most of the driving is done on highways, getting to the collecting areas. Friend of mine put over 10,000 km on his mini-van this summer; he's about the craziest rockhound I know and has never owned a truck. He's used that van to tow 4x4's up inclines where the latter were just spinning their wheels. Ingenuity and a willingness to burn boot leather will get you into lots of places. Getting a little exercise isn't a bad thing. A hundred years ago geologists walked 20 km a day and thought nothing of it; today, if you can't park right on the crystals it's a living nightmare. Sure the hardcores living in mountain country and prowling old goat tracks to remote claims need proper vehicles, but I suspect most big trucks are bought by those with... inadequacies... in other departments. Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Business: http://www.element51.com Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Nov 26 16:58:06 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Nov 26 17:00:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com><380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002a01c83090$97b34030$0200a8c0@Notebook> Paul, In any event, stay away from the Kia Sportage. Outside of having an annoying name, it has one of the worst rollover rates of any SUV made. I know this from personal experience that included two broken ribs. It is now used only as a farm truck hauling firewood. I'll be sticking with a wide wheelbase, low profile and high clearance. Though I may need the Kia to tow out the Acura as we're expecting 12-14" of snow shortly. John Siebel Santa, Idaho From kcbaran at arczip.com Mon Nov 26 17:15:13 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Mon Nov 26 17:21:30 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <002a01c83090$97b34030$0200a8c0@Notebook> References: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com><380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002a01c83090$97b34030$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <474B6FA1.20509@arczip.com> John: What year was your KIA? It looks like the 2008's have a wider, longer wheelbase. Chuck Baran John Siebel wrote: > Paul, > > In any event, stay away from the Kia Sportage. Outside of having an > annoying name, it has one of the worst rollover rates of any SUV made. > I know this from personal experience that included two broken ribs. It > is now used only as a farm truck hauling firewood. I'll be sticking > with a wide wheelbase, low profile and high clearance. Though I may > need the Kia to tow out the Acura as we're expecting 12-14" of snow > shortly. > > John Siebel > Santa, Idaho > From jeffers at shentel.net Mon Nov 26 17:14:14 2007 From: jeffers at shentel.net (Gene Jeffers) Date: Mon Nov 26 17:22:04 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <4743DDD6.8090700@arczip.com> Message-ID: <004a01c83092$d4d18b00$8131d20a@archq.ri.redcross.net> 2001 VW Golf TDI - just enough room for my camping gear and about 100 lbs of rocks. Not much ground clearance (I've replaced the oil pan once) but it gets 50 mpg on the highway. I'm an East coaster from Virginia and travel as far as Georgia and Maine to dig, so the fuel economy comes in handy. Don't think that it could make that last two miles or so to Dismal Swamp, though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 2:27 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > Friends: Just wondering what sort of vehicle you all use to go > rockhounding when you go on those little trails with the big ruts. My > wife, Kathy, and I use a 2002 Suzuki Grand Vitara 4x4 with the 2.5 V6 > and regular hwy tires . We have been able to go everyplace with no > problem (except my fear). The only problem is the small interior...I > don't have a lot of space to put rocks. Just wondering. Chuck... > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Nov 26 17:27:36 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Nov 26 17:28:57 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com><380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002a01c83090$97b34030$0200a8c0@Notebook> <474B6FA1.20509@arczip.com> Message-ID: <004a01c83094$b6547320$0200a8c0@Notebook> It's a 2000. Tiny, tall and currently has a few tarps where the glass used to be :-) John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > John: What year was your KIA? It looks like the 2008's have a wider, > longer wheelbase. > > Chuck Baran > > John Siebel wrote: > >> Paul, >> >> In any event, stay away from the Kia Sportage. Outside of having an >> annoying name, it has one of the worst rollover rates of any SUV made. I >> know this from personal experience that included two broken ribs. It is >> now used only as a farm truck hauling firewood. I'll be sticking with a >> wide wheelbase, low profile and high clearance. Though I may need the Kia >> to tow out the Acura as we're expecting 12-14" of snow shortly. >> >> John Siebel >> Santa, Idaho >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Nov 26 17:53:55 2007 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Nov 26 17:54:02 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartzsite & Clouds jambore In-Reply-To: <503529.73532.qm@web36804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <503529.73532.qm@web36804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: There is a club in Quartzsite that has field trips and a clubhouse with lapidary tools. You have to join the club to use their equipment but I think anybody can go on the field trips. If you don't already have a motel reservation -- or an RV for camping -- you will have to drive 20 miles to Blythe, CA. Everything in town is booked about a year in advance. You will find better facilities at Clouds, in Avi, just south of Laughlin, NV. Avi is a pretty big Indian Casino with a rock show in their dirt lot. Lots of room for dry camping. http://www.cloudsjamboree.com/ Grant On Nov 25, 2007 9:58 PM, Tom Bowers wrote: > Grant, > > This will be the first year that my wife and I are retired and we plan on making our first trip out that way. We have no idea as to what is the best time to be there or what we will need to do about motel/camping arrangements. One thing I'd like to try is some of my own hunting in the area. Is there someplace that novices to Quartzite/Clouds like ourselves can write/look to get some info so we can plan our trip? Then, yes we may be there at that time. > > Tom > > Grant Johnston wrote: > I'm looking forward to going to Quartzsite and Clouds Jamboree again > this year. I missed both of them last year because of a badly injured > budget. This year I'll go to one of the shows, maybe Avi, then on Jan > 18, 19, & 20 I'll stop at the Blythe Bluegrass Festival before going > on to Quartzsite. > > Will anybody else be down there on those dates? > > Grant Johnston > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From roughrock at gmail.com Mon Nov 26 18:07:06 2007 From: roughrock at gmail.com (Grant Johnston) Date: Mon Nov 26 18:07:14 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartzsite & Clouds jambore In-Reply-To: References: <503529.73532.qm@web36804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I forgot to mention but Clouds Jamboree was one of the early Quartzsite vendors. They are hardcore rockhounds, not a garage sale with rocks, When AZ DOT needed a better off-ramp for Highway 95 they put it through Clouds lot. It was one of those public domain snatches. Clouds moved to Laughlin and Avi -- with gems and jewlery in a Laughlin casino and rockhound stuff at Avi. Avi has free dry camping. It can be cold, windy, dusty, but it gets bigger every year. Grant On Nov 26, 2007 5:53 PM, Grant Johnston wrote: > There is a club in Quartzsite that has field trips and a clubhouse > with lapidary tools. You have to join the club to use their equipment > but I think anybody can go on the field trips. > > If you don't already have a motel reservation -- or an RV for camping > -- you will have to drive 20 miles to Blythe, CA. Everything in town > is booked about a year in advance. > > You will find better facilities at Clouds, in Avi, just south of > Laughlin, NV. Avi is a pretty big Indian Casino with a rock show in > their dirt lot. Lots of room for dry camping. > > http://www.cloudsjamboree.com/ > > Grant > > > On Nov 25, 2007 9:58 PM, Tom Bowers wrote: > > Grant, > > > > This will be the first year that my wife and I are retired and we plan on making our first trip out that way. We have no idea as to what is the best time to be there or what we will need to do about motel/camping arrangements. One thing I'd like to try is some of my own hunting in the area. Is there someplace that novices to Quartzite/Clouds like ourselves can write/look to get some info so we can plan our trip? Then, yes we may be there at that time. > > > > Tom > > > > Grant Johnston wrote: > > I'm looking forward to going to Quartzsite and Clouds Jamboree again > > this year. I missed both of them last year because of a badly injured > > budget. This year I'll go to one of the shows, maybe Avi, then on Jan > > 18, 19, & 20 I'll stop at the Blythe Bluegrass Festival before going > > on to Quartzsite. > > > > Will anybody else be down there on those dates? > > > > Grant Johnston > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > From jpjunk at mc.net Mon Nov 26 18:07:23 2007 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Mon Nov 26 18:07:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> References: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <6AF14BE9-AD8A-4E5E-8357-48D661EE7CFC@mc.net> I have to go with Tim on this one. We bought our Toyota Sierra van just for a three week rockhounding trip last Summer. My wife is a very serious comparison shopper and we rarely buy anything other than groceries without a Consumers Reports check and considerable Google time. I absolutely insist on reliability in a vehicle. For many decades I was a "Buy American" fanatic and drove Ford and Chevy trucks exclusively. Then I got two lemons in a row that spent more time in the shop than in my garage. The Toyota gets 23-25 mph fully loaded at 75 mph. It's quiet at highway speed and comfortable and exceptionally well designed. It's also pretty enough to drive to weddings and funerals when we're not out beating on rocks, and fits in with all the mommy vans anywhere. We really can't afford a special purpose vehicle exclusively for rockin'. We threw a single mattress in the back and put a roof-top carrier on it. Made screens to fit over the front windows and put in a fan for air circulation. Generally we'd sleep in it for two nights and then get a motel for a hot shower (and internet access). It handled the worst roads we could find in Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, and Montana, but admittedly the clearance is limited and we had a few occasions where we scraped bottom... but fortunately no damage Although on this trip we carried home all our precious finds, in the past we've stopped and boxed stuff up in grocery-store banana boxes and shipped them home. While this discussion is very interesting and thought provoking, I think the final answer involves your "needs" when traveling. We have slept in 35 cent a night "hotels" in Peru ( we couldn't camp because of the insurgent attacks ), and once, in the boonies of Guatemala, the only bed we could find was in a "House" of questionable repute, where the proprietress had some trouble finding sheets for the bed. Obviously we're not all that particular. If you "need" air conditioning and six-channel stereo and four hundred horsepower and satellite TV, then that's what you're going to buy. John On Nov 26, 2007, at 6:16 PMCST, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > Lots of folks bragging about their massive trucks; wonder what > they'll drive when oil hits $200 a barrel? > > Personally, the Ford Taurus works fine for what little field > collecting I do. Massive storage space and tows the little trailer > nicely. Hauled seventy flats in it this weekend, could get that up > to a hundred if I really crammed 'em in. > > I suspect that the minority of collectors actually do a lot of > heavy-duty offroading; surely most of the driving is done on > highways, getting to the collecting areas. Friend of mine put over > 10,000 km on his mini-van this summer; he's about the craziest > rockhound I know and has never owned a truck. He's used that van to > tow 4x4's up inclines where the latter were just spinning their > wheels. > > Ingenuity and a willingness to burn boot leather will get you into > lots of places. Getting a little exercise isn't a bad thing. A > hundred years ago geologists walked 20 km a day and thought nothing > of it; today, if you can't park right on the crystals it's a living > nightmare. Sure the hardcores living in mountain country and > prowling old goat tracks to remote claims need proper vehicles, but > I suspect most big trucks are bought by those with... > inadequacies... in other departments. > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Business: http://www.element51.com > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > From bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 26 18:28:44 2007 From: bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com (Joe Mulvey) Date: Mon Nov 26 18:28:48 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice Crystals Message-ID: <40485.84163.qm@web51507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Each March, Bob Whitmore generously opens up the Palermo Mine in N. Groton, NH for interested parties to view the ice stalactites and stalagmites. If you're really lucky, you may see hibernating a bat covered in ice crystals as well. Pictures here: http://www.micromountersofnewengland.org/pics/Palermo-030407/index.htm Best Regards, Joe --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Nov 26 18:44:22 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Mon Nov 26 18:45:47 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) References: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com><008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> <6AF14BE9-AD8A-4E5E-8357-48D661EE7CFC@mc.net> Message-ID: <005e01c8309f$71310370$0200a8c0@Notebook> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Junkroski" >We have slept in 35 cent a night "hotels" in Peru ( we couldn't camp >because of the insurgent attacks ),... While those of us who are currently experiencing winter (and long to be whacking rocks) are yearning for that perfect vehicle, I thought it might be an interesting thread to discuss the weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest place that members have camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during a rockhound trip. I've got some input (Yucatan and a funky little place in Butte, MT come to mind) but I'm too damned tired from splitting firewood to elaborate right now. John From kcbaran at arczip.com Mon Nov 26 19:04:14 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Mon Nov 26 19:10:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) In-Reply-To: <005e01c8309f$71310370$0200a8c0@Notebook> References: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com><008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> <6AF14BE9-AD8A-4E5E-8357-48D661EE7CFC@mc.net> <005e01c8309f$71310370$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <474B892E.7060802@arczip.com> Well, our trip last summer to Big Pine Ca, we stayed at a nice place in Beatty Nv. Nothing to write about except that evening Beatty was surrounded on 3 1/2 sides by a brush fire. We were told to keep things packed in case we had to be evacuated. We were saved by firefighters from Area 51. Another time on a rock hunting trip about 35 years ago, we had stopped for the night at Stovepipe Wells Death Valley. In August! Well, I had just dozed off when Kathy woke me up: "We have to leave! I don't know why, but we just do." This was around 11:00pm. Well, we packed up, got in the car and started out across Death Valley. We got lost. I stopped the car to look at a map. We were facing East toward Nevada (area 51). All of a sudden a turquoise colored object about the size of an old silver dollar "appeared" about halfway up our windshield. It just hovered for about 3 minutes. Then it split into two pieces, same size, and one went North while the other went South. Not too fast, about the speed of a commercial jet. We watched until both pieces disappeared below the horizon...at the same time. True story, I swear to it. Chuck Baran John Siebel wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Junkroski" > >> We have slept in 35 cent a night "hotels" in Peru ( we couldn't camp >> because of the insurgent attacks ),... > > > While those of us who are currently experiencing winter (and long to > be whacking rocks) are yearning for that perfect vehicle, I thought it > might be an interesting thread to discuss the weirdest, most primitive > (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest place that members have > camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during a rockhound trip. I've > got some input (Yucatan and a funky little place in Butte, MT come to > mind) but I'm too damned tired from splitting firewood to elaborate > right now. > > John > From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Mon Nov 26 19:41:01 2007 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Mon Nov 26 19:31:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water Glass as Fracture Filler In-Reply-To: <474B892E.7060802@arczip.com> References: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com><008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> <6AF14BE9-AD8A-4E5E-8357-48D661EE7CFC@mc.net> <005e01c8309f$71310370$0200a8c0@Notebook> <474B892E.7060802@arczip.com> Message-ID: > > Hello All, The topic of using water glass as a fracture filler has come up on another list I subscribe to. One poster said that if it was heated to about 200 C the water glass became insoluble, hard, and permanent. That surprised me, for that it is indeed the case it seems to me that we have a sort of quartz-in-a-bottle which would be an unsurpassed material for permanently fracture filling just about anything. Yet the wide use of opticon and similar polymers seems to indicate that heated water glass is *not* such a magic bullet. I'd be grateful if some of the more chemically savvy list members and experienced cutters would elaborate on the properties, permanence, and suitability of the stuff in fracture filling, its advantages and its drawbacks. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Nov 26 19:53:14 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Nov 26 19:53:16 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice spikes/Kryptonite In-Reply-To: <002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com> <002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: I've noticed quite interesting ice spikes "spew up" out of wet red clay here in the south. The clay becomes saturated from rains ahead of cold fronts. Of course the ground is warmer below the surface and the top layer freezes first. As deeper layers freeze and expand, the ice "spews up out of the ground" and forms interesting shapes. And it is colorful due to the red clay and refracted sunlight. I'm sure this is not an isolated phenomenon. I use the term "ice spewed up from the ground" acquired from older relatives chiding us as youngsters not to go barefooted any longer in these years 'cause we'd surely catch pneumonia through our frozen feet... And to support Kreigh, Kryptonite was named long before the 60s. I remember. BTW Axel, the marbles are actually made of the glass you describe. Was not that actually radioactive in the early days when it was used as attractive tableware? Seems I remember another discussion of this yellow-green glass and carnival glass on this list. And they are, at least by poetic license, "real" Kryptonite. BTW2, I owe a show report as soon as I get more than a few minutes. Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Nov 26 20:07:18 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Nov 26 19:53:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com> <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <474B94B3.7597@Tomaszewski.net> I'm currently driving my second Astro van, and looking for its replacement. I've spent several afternoons recently visiting the dealerships and I'm just not happy with the alternatives the automakers are presenting. I'm not happy with a solution that hauls people or cargo, but not both. The Astro provided the high clearance that is an absolute requirement; it was built on a truck frame. It offered the mixed use of cargo or passengers. With the third seat out I could haul plenty of gear and rocks to meet my needs. With the third seat in I can take the whole family, and my kids friends, to some event. Take out two rows of seats and I can haul a huge amount of cargo without complaints from the truck frame. It had reasonable towing capacity. I would prefer better mileage, but it was at least reasonable. Saturday I went back to one of the local Chevy dealerships and convinced one of the sales folks (and his manager) that nothing they offered was going to meet my needs. They were sure that they could find me lots of newer Astro's until they went online and started searching. The closest one found was in the next state, and it had more miles than the one I drove to the dealership. They are still looking (I talked to them today) -- so much for their excuse of the holiday weekend. People seem to be hanging on to their Astro vans. I think that GM made a huge error in discontinuing it. I want your genie to find me an almost new Astro van (extended) with all wheel drive that gets around 25 mpg, has low mileage, and costs less than I paid for my house thirty years ago (and most new SUVs or trucks now cost more). I'm not looking for 'cool' and gadgets. I care about reliability and functionality. Kreigh Paul Gilmore wrote: > > Folks: > > This is a very timely thread. I am planning my next vehicle (aren't we always?) to handle the poor roads of back country mineral collecting on long trips. Having bottomed out and lost an oil filter once, I am looking for good ground clearance. Having shredded the drive tire of a pick-up truck rental, I am very concerned about tough tires. I would like to be able to sleep in my vehicle if necessary, so the truck-tent concept is an interesting one. Finally, reliability is paramount since I am not > > Questions: > > If I use a pickup truck cargo bed to camp in, won't I be short of storage space for specimen tonnage? > > Why does a Jeep Wrangler get you places that an F-150 may not? > > Is there an SUV that is built on a truck chassis that doesn't cost as much as two trucks? > > Can you have reliability, decent gas mileage, ground clearance, storage space and room to stretch out and sleep (if necessary)? > > Most people sound happy with what they've got. What vehicle would you own if a genie were granting wishes? > > (Free colonoscopies for helpful suggestions.) > > Paul Gilmore (MD) > From acraven at mindspring.com Mon Nov 26 19:58:41 2007 From: acraven at mindspring.com (acraven) Date: Mon Nov 26 19:58:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Logistics for Quartzsite References: <503529.73532.qm@web36804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00be01c830a9$cc89fa60$0a0110ac@Desktop> Blythe CA has lots of motels, but they book up during the QIA show, and possibly at other times during January-February. You definitely should not plan to stay in Blythe without a reservation unless arrival during the likely morning check-out period is possible and you only want to stay one night--and even then, it would be risky. If you can find a room in Blythe, you'll pay far more than usual for it during the period around the QIA show, perhaps about double the usual rates. I don't get to Quartsite often, but my trips to the fire agate mine west of Palo Verde often seem to fall in the peak-demand period when Blythe motel rates skyrocket. The last time I checked, the Motel 6 had raised its rates less (percentage-wise as well as dollar-wise) than the other places, so I've made a habit of staying there. As Motel 6s go, I've found it to be fine. I've also stayed at the Super 8, which is a bit less stripped-down, but the gap between their room rates really seems to expand during the peak period. I confess that I haven't checked rates at the non-chain places, of which I believe there are several. For food, La Casita Dos (Mexican) is my favorite in Blythe. It's located near the Lovekin Ave. exit from I-10. There's an elevated black and white sign that you'd probably see during daylight hours; I don't remember whether it's illuminated. Be forewarned, however, that service isn't particularly fast. There are other non-chain Mexican options in Blythe, lots of chain fast-food joints, a Dennys (also at Lovekin Ave exit), and a Chinese place. The Chinese spot was disappointing on my last visit. Ann Craven From Paintricks at aol.com Mon Nov 26 20:05:11 2007 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Mon Nov 26 20:05:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gold mine info,...Anyone? Message-ID: Hi there, I live here in Cripple creek and I luckily found a house that has an old gold mine in the back yard. the shaft is about 30 feet deep and has a lot of tailing around that I have been picking through and have found interesting types of rock associated within it. I'm adding some pictures here for reference and was wondering if anyone has had experience here and areas like this and maybe what I have found. I have a good idea of what some of this rock is but maybe someone here could clarify it better than I can. The first one is in a granite that has a druzy type quartz that is an iron oxide color and resembles a geode. The second is a sand stone with an unusual ring pattern. How is this associated with gold? The third is a fluorite intermixed with what looks like black hematite coating. It's a very dense material. Another I have I don't have the picture of to show but it is a yellow stained iron stained ryolite type that resembles sandstone and smells strongly of sulpher. Sulpher dioxide after it reaches the outside air from inside the mine? There is a variety of crystal structures, hematite that looks like a black chrome that is a cubic crystal structure with the fluorite that is a rusty color to brown and hardly translucent. The last is a gray ryolite type that has tiny pinhole size sparkly crystals, either silver or gold color but hard to tell because of the lighting. It resembles pyrite but maybe calaverite. Does anyone know which of these , if any, are the closest to the gold vein? There is not much massive quartz in this rock but the tailings oxidize that tell tale yellow color to white pouring out of the hillside. Makes me wonder why dig in that spot. There are a lot of "glory holes" here and it's confusing what the old timers were looking at. Seems simple enough, Quarts vein, dig here. That's not always the case. Thanks in advance and I would love to hear stories of anyone who may have collected here around the cripple creek area and anywhere in Colorado. Kevin **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg image/jpeg image/jpeg --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Mon Nov 26 20:13:39 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Mon Nov 26 20:13:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com> <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow! Who knew vehicles would be such a hot issue? And its like everything, what is best in one situation is useless in many others. You gotta go with what you think is best for your needs. Not long ago I gave my old van away and bought an '05 Honda Pilot. I checked online for lots of info including 4WD, ground clearance, skid plate, towing capacity, passenger seating, and beaucoup other things. Gas mileage was not he least of the issues. If things go as planned, I'll add a wench on the front and carry a small grappling style anchor to pull thru spots I'll likely never go. (No Axel, Jeanette rides shotgun and navigates with the GPS and laptop.) Passenger seating is important when visiting the grandchildren and for shorter expeditions with friends. Glenn > From: prgilmore@hotmail.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com; ajs@frii.com> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Vehicles> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:09:16 +0000> CC: > > > Folks:> > This is a very timely thread. I am planning my next vehicle (aren't we always?) to handle the poor roads of back country mineral collecting on long trips. Having bottomed out and lost an oil filter once, I am looking for good ground clearance. Having shredded the drive tire of a pick-up truck rental, I am very concerned about tough tires. I would like to be able to sleep in my vehicle if necessary, so the truck-tent concept is an interesting one. Finally, reliability is paramount since I am not an auto mechanic.> > Questions: > > If I use a pickup truck cargo bed to camp in, won't I be short of storage space for specimen tonnage?> > Why does a Jeep Wrangler get you places that an F-150 may not?> > Is there an SUV that is built on a truck chassis that doesn't cost as much as two trucks?> > Can you have reliability, decent gas mileage, ground clearance, storage space and room to stretch out and sleep (if necessary)? > > Most people sound happy with what they've got. What vehicle would you own if a genie were granting wishes?> > (Free colonoscopies for helpful suggestions.)> > Paul Gilmore (MD)> > > Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:16:34 -0800> From: tomrbowers@yahoo.com> To: ajs@frii.com; rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> CC: > Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles > > Well, I couldn't get along with just one vehicle, so I have two. My ol' faithful is a 2001 Ford F150 4x4 supercab. I love this for getting around most every place I need to go and having lots of hauling capacity to fill up. But, this last year I bought a 1996 Jeep Wrangler 4 cyl. to get me to the totally off-road locations in the mountainous W. Tx. desert areas (Brewster County). I really bought it more for deer hunting, but it makes one heck of an off-road rock hunting vehicle as well. I have a trailer hitch so that I can haul a trailer to the point where I need to proceed off-road. I unload the trailer at that spot and fill it up with the goodies when I return from a given leg of my exploration. Almost all of Texas land is private, but I hunt on the land that I hunt deer on. I can't wait to try it out this coming year on some BLM lands in other nearby (or far away) states.> > Tom Bowers> > Alan Silverstein wrote:> > If I would have known 7 years ago that I was going to move out here, I> > would have opted for the Subaru Forester.> > Not a bad choice, but check the cargo capacity... After wearing out a> 1991 Subaru Loyale wagon (original owner, it had 100 CF if I recall> right), and shopping around, 1.5 years ago I ended up buying a nearly> new Subaru Outback wagon (97 CF I think). Both of them go almost> everywhere. Fine ground clearance and cargo space for the size and> MPGs. Too bad no granny gear in the 4WD or they could climb a lot> steeper. Too bad they rounded all the sides and edges to give up more> cargo capacity.> > Now, the new Outback is a lot plusher, quieter, and feature-rich, but it> gets lower MPGs (only 25-27 not 29-30).> > Long ago I bought an old 2-ton 360 V8 Jeep Wagoneer, green beast, I> called it Triceratops. It could go anywhere, except deep snow, so long> as the tranny shift linkage didn't bounce disconnected...> > Now my spare vehicle is an older Toyota pickup truck, "power nothing",> but oh man can it handle serious 4WD. However, while I use it> occasionally for hauling "stuff" around, I don't really NEED it for> rockhounding!> > Cheers,> Alan Silverstein> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html> > > > ---------------------------------> Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how.> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html> _________________________________________________________________> You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i?m Initiative now.> http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE! http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Mon Nov 26 20:16:23 2007 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Mon Nov 26 20:16:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles Message-ID: In a message dated 11/26/2007 9:14:03 PM Mountain Standard Time, pawpawtiger@hotmail.com writes: I'll add a wench on the front Well, that will be something, Glenn! Will it be Jeanette, or someone new? : ) **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From geenet at centurytel.net Mon Nov 26 21:15:26 2007 From: geenet at centurytel.net (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Mon Nov 26 21:13:31 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles References: Message-ID: <001e01c830b4$8666a6e0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> No. I will NOT be the wench on the front of the Pilot. That'd have to be his NEW wife.... Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: > I'll add a wench on the front > > > Well, that will be something, Glenn! Will it be Jeanette, or someone > new? > : ) > > From tomrbowers at yahoo.com Mon Nov 26 21:13:38 2007 From: tomrbowers at yahoo.com (Tom Bowers) Date: Mon Nov 26 21:13:41 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <474B94B3.7597@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <426102.62202.qm@web36812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well OK, regarding "Why does a Jeep Wrangler get you places that an F-150 may not?" - The first thing would be a shorter wheel base, so less likely to high center. But, I may also have left out a few other details. I didn't mention that this Wrangler is also modified for off-road. It has an extra 4" lift kit, heavy-duty off-road shocks, oversized mud grip off-road tires, etc. It's really built for running off-road. Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: I'm currently driving my second Astro van, and looking for its replacement. I've spent several afternoons recently visiting the dealerships and I'm just not happy with the alternatives the automakers are presenting. I'm not happy with a solution that hauls people or cargo, but not both. The Astro provided the high clearance that is an absolute requirement; it was built on a truck frame. It offered the mixed use of cargo or passengers. With the third seat out I could haul plenty of gear and rocks to meet my needs. With the third seat in I can take the whole family, and my kids friends, to some event. Take out two rows of seats and I can haul a huge amount of cargo without complaints from the truck frame. It had reasonable towing capacity. I would prefer better mileage, but it was at least reasonable. Saturday I went back to one of the local Chevy dealerships and convinced one of the sales folks (and his manager) that nothing they offered was going to meet my needs. They were sure that they could find me lots of newer Astro's until they went online and started searching. The closest one found was in the next state, and it had more miles than the one I drove to the dealership. They are still looking (I talked to them today) -- so much for their excuse of the holiday weekend. People seem to be hanging on to their Astro vans. I think that GM made a huge error in discontinuing it. I want your genie to find me an almost new Astro van (extended) with all wheel drive that gets around 25 mpg, has low mileage, and costs less than I paid for my house thirty years ago (and most new SUVs or trucks now cost more). I'm not looking for 'cool' and gadgets. I care about reliability and functionality. Kreigh Paul Gilmore wrote: > > Folks: > > This is a very timely thread. I am planning my next vehicle (aren't we always?) to handle the poor roads of back country mineral collecting on long trips. Having bottomed out and lost an oil filter once, I am looking for good ground clearance. Having shredded the drive tire of a pick-up truck rental, I am very concerned about tough tires. I would like to be able to sleep in my vehicle if necessary, so the truck-tent concept is an interesting one. Finally, reliability is paramount since I am not > > Questions: > > If I use a pickup truck cargo bed to camp in, won't I be short of storage space for specimen tonnage? > > Why does a Jeep Wrangler get you places that an F-150 may not? > > Is there an SUV that is built on a truck chassis that doesn't cost as much as two trucks? > > Can you have reliability, decent gas mileage, ground clearance, storage space and room to stretch out and sleep (if necessary)? > > Most people sound happy with what they've got. What vehicle would you own if a genie were granting wishes? > > (Free colonoscopies for helpful suggestions.) > > Paul Gilmore (MD) > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tomrbowers at yahoo.com Mon Nov 26 21:18:41 2007 From: tomrbowers at yahoo.com (Tom Bowers) Date: Mon Nov 26 21:18:49 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Quartzsite & Clouds jambore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <440897.78844.qm@web36814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks for the info, Grant. I got on-line and got a bit more informed about all the goings-on in Quartzsite, Clouds, and Tucson - along with dates for each show. Now I just have to sit down with my wife and negotiate how much time/money we can spend and when we will go. Not sure what dates we'll be there yet. Grant Johnston wrote: I forgot to mention but Clouds Jamboree was one of the early Quartzsite vendors. They are hardcore rockhounds, not a garage sale with rocks, When AZ DOT needed a better off-ramp for Highway 95 they put it through Clouds lot. It was one of those public domain snatches. Clouds moved to Laughlin and Avi -- with gems and jewlery in a Laughlin casino and rockhound stuff at Avi. Avi has free dry camping. It can be cold, windy, dusty, but it gets bigger every year. Grant On Nov 26, 2007 5:53 PM, Grant Johnston wrote: > There is a club in Quartzsite that has field trips and a clubhouse > with lapidary tools. You have to join the club to use their equipment > but I think anybody can go on the field trips. > > If you don't already have a motel reservation -- or an RV for camping > -- you will have to drive 20 miles to Blythe, CA. Everything in town > is booked about a year in advance. > > You will find better facilities at Clouds, in Avi, just south of > Laughlin, NV. Avi is a pretty big Indian Casino with a rock show in > their dirt lot. Lots of room for dry camping. > > http://www.cloudsjamboree.com/ > > Grant > > > On Nov 25, 2007 9:58 PM, Tom Bowers wrote: > > Grant, > > > > This will be the first year that my wife and I are retired and we plan on making our first trip out that way. We have no idea as to what is the best time to be there or what we will need to do about motel/camping arrangements. One thing I'd like to try is some of my own hunting in the area. Is there someplace that novices to Quartzite/Clouds like ourselves can write/look to get some info so we can plan our trip? Then, yes we may be there at that time. > > > > Tom > > > > Grant Johnston wrote: > > I'm looking forward to going to Quartzsite and Clouds Jamboree again > > this year. I missed both of them last year because of a badly injured > > budget. This year I'll go to one of the shows, maybe Avi, then on Jan > > 18, 19, & 20 I'll stop at the Blythe Bluegrass Festival before going > > on to Quartzsite. > > > > Will anybody else be down there on those dates? > > > > Grant Johnston > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From millsgeological at hughes.net Mon Nov 26 21:35:41 2007 From: millsgeological at hughes.net (Jim Mills) Date: Mon Nov 26 21:36:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD - Old Issues of "California Geology" for sale Message-ID: <001c01c830b7$628f8360$0200a8c0@IBMBFBC977768C> Hello Group I am thinning out from my library some older issues of California Geology dating back to the late 1980s. I am highlighting some issues below which contain an article which I think may be of interest to members of this news group and I have indicated that article in all caps for convenient scanning of the list. Please note that all of the issues of California Geology from that era contained around 22 to 26 pages and I have indicated just the one article from each issue which I thought to be most of interest. Each issue has several more articles besides the one I have identified. The condition of these issues vary from MINT - could have been mailed yesterday to FAIR - missing the back cover and sometimes missing the back cover and a portion of the penultimate page (where a previous owner cut out the publication order form). None of the articles I highlight are impacted by the lack of a back cover but of course, such a lack would make the copy more germane to information than to being "collectible". In quite a few cases I had managed to find a library copy and make a Xerox of the back cover so all of the information for that issue is present. If condition of the entire issue is important to you, please ask, off list, about the particular issues that are of interest and I will email the information back to you. COST: I am asking a modest $6 per copy and for that price I will provide free shipping and cover the applicable CA sales tax myself. My past offers of books out of my library have drawn immediate and extensive response and many people were disappointed. I will post this advertisement to more than one newsgroup so if you are a member of some other groups as am I, you may receive multiple copies of the ad - for this I apologize. If you see something of definite interest to you, or if you have questions, let me know quickly - OFF LIST to MillsGeological@hughes.net Here are the issues and the article titles: January, 1989 - VIVIANITE IN LITTLE LAKE VALLEY, MENDOCINO COUNTY, CALIFORNIA by Prokopovich and Cooke (two retired geologists). This article, of great interest to mineral collectors, gives a good description of the mineral, the area geology, and the locality (with very specific coordinates and directions and map) near Willits, CA. July, 1989 - CHESTERMANITE - A NEW MINERAL from Fresno County, CA by John Alfors of the Division of Mines and Geology. The article gives a good description of the mineral and the locality near Twin Lakes, CA. April, 1988 - COPPER MINING IN FRESNO COUNTY by Frank Lorey, Historian. A 4 page article which discuses 4 copper mines in the Sierra foothills - the earliest one around 1875. September, 1988 - VOLCANOGENIC MASSIVE SULFIDE BELT OF THE WESTERN SIERRA NEVADA FOOTHILLS by Roger Martin of the Division of Mines. A 10 page comprehensive article on the copper and zinc sulfide mineralization belt of the foothills. Well illustrated. October, 1988 - GEOLOGIC RELATIONSHIPS ALONG THE SAN GABRIEL FAULT BETWEEN HARDLUCK CANYON AND CASTAIC by Harold Weber of the Division of Mines. A 9 page article which makes this complex fault much easier to understand. Really good maps. March, 1989 - ORIGIN OF THE LAKE ISABELLA PLUTON AND ITS ENCLAVES by Lorence Collins, Cal State Northridge Geology Professor. Some very interesting hypotheses about the origin of the Kernville Metasediments and the Isabella Pluton that extends from Lake Isabella to Walker Pass. 7 pages. December, 1991 - YOSEMITE an entire issue devoted to geology of this National Park. The Snow Lake Pendant (Yosemite-Emigrant Wilderness) and origin of the valley itself are the two features which total 16 pages. July, 1991 - GEOLOGY OF SANTA BARBARA ISLAND by Robert Norris of UC Santa Barbara. There is very little in the literature on the geology of this, the most remote member of the Channel Islands National Park. This 5 page article helped correct that omission! December, 1988 - MYRMEKITE - A MYSTERY SOLVED NEAR TEMECULA by Lorence Collins of Cal State Northridge. If you are interested in petrology, this is an excellent treatment of the obscure mineral textured myrmekite in 6 pages. Issue also has good summary of Geology of Del Norte and Siskiyou counties in the far north of the state. July, 1988 - CYANIDE HEAP LEACHING IN CALIFORNIA by Michael Silva with the Division of Mines. A 10 page article which very clearly and concisely explains the process by which gold and silver are now recovered at the big open pit gold mines in the West. January, 1988 - ELEMENTAL ANALYSIS OF MICA RESOURCES IN CALIFORNIA by James Post of Cal State Northridge. If you favor collecting in pegmatites and have wondered about the excellent mica "books" in these deposits, this 11 page article will fill you in on mica mining in California and the mineralogy of its paragenesis. June, 1986 - RANCHO LA BREA: A LOOK AT COASTAL SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA'S PAST by Christopher Shaw of the Page Museum and James Quinn of the LA Natural History Museum. An eleven page article highlighting history of the dig and paleo-ecology of the area at the time of deposition. Comes with a nice bibliography of this famous dig site. July, 1986 - SINGING AND BOOMING SAND DUNES OF CALIFORNIA AND NEVADA by Dennis Trexler of Univ Nev Reno and Wilton Melhorn of Purdue Univ. This is a fascinating 6 page article explaining the origin of the acoustic noises produced by shifting sand in dunes. Nice summaries of each sand dune area in the two states that exhibit this interesting phenomenon. August 1986 - MAGNETIC EXPLORATION FOR SKARN DEPOSITS - IVANPAH MINING DISTRICT, SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY by Chapman, Joseph and Campbell plus MOUNT BALDY MINING AREA by D Trent of Citrus College. Two very interesting articles about Southern California Mining Districts with plenty of history mixed in with the geology. April, 1987 - MESOTHERMAL GOLD MINERALIZATION, SKIDOO - DEL NORTH MINES by Donald Fife, Consulting Geologist. A nice summary of the geology for these two gold mines located close to each other within the confines of what is now Death Valley National Park. August, 1987 - A THUMBNAIL SKETCH OF CALIFORNIA'S MARINE GEOLOGY by Don Dupras with the Division of Mines. An entire issue devoted to CA offshore geology. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Nov 27 01:40:54 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 27 02:41:02 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice spikes/Kryptonite In-Reply-To: References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> > > BTW Axel, the marbles are actually made of the glass you > describe. Was not that actually radioactive in the early days > when it was used as attractive tableware? Seems I remember > another discussion of this yellow-green glass and carnival > glass on this list. And they are, at least by poetic license, > "real" Kryptonite. Hi Glenn, Uranium oxide is a VERY powerful colorant in glass. Probably due to the fluorescence even in normal daylight. Since there is only very little of the oxide used and it 's not "enriched", the radioactivity of the glass may be very low. Axel From zebulon at isr.umich.edu Tue Nov 27 05:57:41 2007 From: zebulon at isr.umich.edu (Peter Sparks) Date: Tue Nov 27 05:57:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicle driving tips Message-ID: <6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E49022BA690@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu> I've been enjoying the discussion on which vehicle features to get. I think it's equally important to know how to drive to that collecting site and out again. To get started ... Driving across ditches and embankments: I drive a slight diagonal to them so that at one point I'm balanced on two wheels and pivot across the span. Going straight across means I will scrape and hang up on the frame. A short wheel based helps negate this problem. It's a little scary the first time it's tried. Distributing weight: I generally pack towards the front and work back, and it's nicer if I can secure the load so it doesn't shift. Because I max out the truck I'm careful about keeping the weight even side-to-side. Too much weight over the axel means my front starts getting light. Off roading: If I'm in the desert I don't off road since there's too great a chance of sinking to my axel. I carry a shovel, extra boards, jack, water, ... Steep hills: Downshift. Going down I avoid using the brake and then only for short periods. GPS and compass and maps: need I say more? Background I drive a 1997 Ford F-150, 8' bed, regular cab, 2 wheel drive, 5-speed manual, Astro cap, sprayed-in liner. I like in Michigan and have taken it over the Rockies four times, around Lake Superior once, to Winnipeg and parts north and west, to Kentucky, Maryland, Virginia, ... -- Peter Sparks From Pmodreski at aol.com Tue Nov 27 06:38:16 2007 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Nov 27 06:38:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Kryptonite marbles Message-ID: I also meant to comment about those marbles, Glenn (I believe it was you who posted that), when you said that they were phosphorescent. All uranium minerals, including the uranium-bearing glass, are NOT phosphorescent, just fluorescent--that's one of the distinguishing characteristics of all uranium-activated minerals (thereby, you can always distinguish green-fluorescent coatings of uranyl minerals or uranyl-containing opal or chalcedony, from fluorescent willemite that also occurs in the oxidized zone of some mines). And my uranium-bearing yellow-green glass is definitely not phosphorescent. So if your marbles really are phosphorescent too... well, perhaps they have some other luminescent "ingredient" in them, besidres or instead of, uranium. (OK, so then they are even more "special"!) Pete **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 27 06:38:31 2007 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Tue Nov 27 06:38:34 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicle driving tips In-Reply-To: <6F651C1505A4A048923BCF2D756A7E49022BA690@isr-mail2.ad.isr.umich.edu> Message-ID: <474323.99991.qm@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good advice. The part about crossing a ditch in particular. I often scrape the hitch when crossing a ditch. Jim Daly Peter Sparks wrote: I've been enjoying the discussion on which vehicle features to get. I think it's equally important to know how to drive to that collecting site and out again. To get started ... Driving across ditches and embankments: I drive a slight diagonal to them so that at one point I'm balanced on two wheels and pivot across the span. Going straight across means I will scrape and hang up on the frame. A short wheel based helps negate this problem. It's a little scary the first time it's tried. Distributing weight: I generally pack towards the front and work back, and it's nicer if I can secure the load so it doesn't shift. Because I max out the truck I'm careful about keeping the weight even side-to-side. Too much weight over the axel means my front starts getting light. Off roading: If I'm in the desert I don't off road since there's too great a chance of sinking to my axel. I carry a shovel, extra boards, jack, water, ... Steep hills: Downshift. Going down I avoid using the brake and then only for short periods. GPS and compass and maps: need I say more? Background I drive a 1997 Ford F-150, 8' bed, regular cab, 2 wheel drive, 5-speed manual, Astro cap, sprayed-in liner. I like in Michigan and have taken it over the Rockies four times, around Lake Superior once, to Winnipeg and parts north and west, to Kentucky, Maryland, Virginia, ... -- Peter Sparks -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Nov 27 07:18:57 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Nov 27 07:19:13 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice Crystals In-Reply-To: <40485.84163.qm@web51507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <40485.84163.qm@web51507.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <028201c83108$d5f5bc10$6501a8c0@okapi> Thanks for that link! It reminds me of when I used to go caving with the SD Tech Pahasapa Grotto of the NSS in Reed's Cave in the southern Black Hills. During the winter (duh!) there was an amazing 15 or 20 foot ice stalagmite right inside the entrance. We'd rappel down next to it. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Joe Mulvey > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 8:29 PM > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: [Rockhounds] Ice Crystals > > Each March, Bob Whitmore generously opens up the Palermo Mine > in N. Groton, NH for interested parties to view the ice > stalactites and stalagmites. .... From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Nov 27 06:31:11 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 27 07:32:37 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Kryptonite marbles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001d01c83102$284671a0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Absolutely , Pete. And yes Glenn; there are some marbles made of plastic with an organic phosphorescent agent (like some of those glo-in-the dark toys). Also ceramic ones that are doped with erbium, terbium, lutetium or holmium can have sustained green phosphorescence. (at least I think that these are the rare earth elements that luminesce mostly in the green... What may explain your observation is this: If you switch off the lamp the mercury vapor needs a few seconds to completely recombine with the electrons in the plasma that is created in a burning TL-lamp. There is indeed a faint afterglow in the UV-spectrum AFTER switching the lamp off. This rest-UV is quite capable of making strong fluorescents like wernerite or uranyl-minerals fluoresce weakly. So it would APPEAR that your marbles fluoresce but the only way to really confirm that would be to "snatch" them from under the burning lamp and see if they glow in your hand, shielded from the light. Let us know what happens, will ya? Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 27 07:56:57 2007 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Nov 27 07:57:01 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds web page resurrected References: <003e01c82bee$6e292460$610fa8c0@Grimble> Message-ID: <003901c8310e$23e25dc0$94f9d04c@LarryRush> Good Work, Tom! You reinforce my growing belief that there is always room in this world for old(er) objects!! : To: Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:27 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Rockhounds web page resurrected > Hello all, > > If my memory serves me, there was some discussion on this list recently > about the desire for a list website. > > Well, I have some good news. > > I have resurrected the original Rockhounds web page > (http://www.infodyn.com/rockhounds/) from the days when I was maintaining > this list and have once again begun to actively maintain it. > > I have (hopefully) repaired all the missing/broken links and the current > content should be good. By all means, do let me know if you find a bad > link. > > So, feel free to email me links to your rockhounding-related web sites and > I > will add them to the page after reviewing them for relevance. I would > especially like to get some links to personal collections that have images > online. They are pretty neat when you find one. > > Do be patient waiting for your link to appear, as it may take me a week to > 10 days to get it updated, but it will happen. > > Due to its longevity, the Rockhounds web page has a rather high Google > ranking, so inclusion in it should prove worthwhile to all. > > Regards, > TC > > PS: if there is anything else the current list managers would like me to > host via the Rockhounds web page, just let me know. > > ________________________________ > > Thomas W. Corson OBG International > corson@infodyn.com 2435 E Mayview Drive > 520-225-0244 Green Valley, AZ 85614 > > World-Class Minerals For World-Class Collectors > ________________________________ From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Nov 27 08:32:50 2007 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Nov 27 08:32:50 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / ice crystals/ice spikes/Kryptonite References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder> Hi All, The orange glaze on Fiesta Ware is radioactive. An antique dealer told me about the radiologic tech who bought a large orange Fiesta Ware platter to demonstrate to his classes that not everything that sets off a Geiger counter is dangerous. He has his wife make a big batch of chocolate chip cookies which he serves to his class on the orange platter, then brings out the Geiger counter on its most sensitive scale to let the class hear the counter chirp away. As toxicologist Dr. Bruce Ames says, "the dose makes the poison". I bought a small orange Fiesta Ware bowl from this antique dealer to use for demonstrations. The bowl doesn't fluoresce with LW U/V. The "vaseline glass" made by Fenton fluoresces brightly in LW U/V and gives a response on the most sensitive scale of my Geiger counter, but not quite as much as with the orange glazed bowl. The Fenton glass bowl I have was made in the 1930's, and they're still in business, but don't know if their current production contains any radioactive or fluorescent material given the hysteria of some people about "radioactive". Cheers, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: Axel Emmermann To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:40 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice spikes/Kryptonite > > BTW Axel, the marbles are actually made of the glass you > describe. Was not that actually radioactive in the early days > when it was used as attractive tableware? Seems I remember > another discussion of this yellow-green glass and carnival > glass on this list. And they are, at least by poetic license, > "real" Kryptonite. Hi Glenn, Uranium oxide is a VERY powerful colorant in glass. Probably due to the fluorescence even in normal daylight. Since there is only very little of the oxide used and it 's not "enriched", the radioactivity of the glass may be very low. Axel -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Tue Nov 27 11:24:34 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Tue Nov 27 11:24:04 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: References: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com><380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c8312b$24ed8600$0200a8c0@kadok> <:-}}!! Around this neck of the woods, we call that a "winch", Glenn <;-)))) Margaret >If things go as planned, I'll add a wench on the front and carry a small >grappling style anchor to pull thru spots I'll likely never go. (No Axel, >Jeanette rides shotgun and navigates with the GPS and laptop.) Glenn From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Nov 27 10:39:16 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Nov 27 11:39:23 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite In-Reply-To: <001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Hi Erich, Maria Salomee Sk?odowska, AKA Madame Curie, died at age 66 of leukemia. She lived in an exiting epoque in which radioactivity was discovered. In her time it was fashionable to decorate a garden party with blue radioluminescent vials containing radiumnitrate. She also wore a neclace with a minut vial of the stuff... After a few weeks her bosom must have looked like Kentucky fried chicken. Of course, If you don't know you don't know! Showing cleavage was not really fashionable around the turn of the 19th century so it would have been her "hidden problem". Dose may be a killing factor but prolongued exposure is also dangerous. Some Russian chrysoberyl is moderately radioactive and although the crystals do not appear to be very metamict there is measurable radiation coming from those specimens. The gem, when used in pendants, is know to cause cancer of the thyroid gland an throat. It appears that the red and orange fiestaware is colored by uranium too (it came as waste from the enrichment plants). Vaseline glass is clored by UO2 (uranyl). The orange die is probably also another oxide than the divalent yellow-green stuff.... Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Erich Kern > Verzonden: dinsdag 27 november 2007 17:33 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / > ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > > > Hi All, > > The orange glaze on Fiesta Ware is radioactive. An antique > dealer told me about the radiologic tech who bought a large > orange Fiesta Ware platter to demonstrate to his classes that > not everything that sets off a Geiger counter is dangerous. > He has his wife make a big batch of chocolate chip cookies > which he serves to his class on the orange platter, then > brings out the Geiger counter on its most sensitive scale to > let the class hear the counter chirp away. As toxicologist > Dr. Bruce Ames says, "the dose makes the poison". I bought a > small orange Fiesta Ware bowl from this antique dealer to use > for demonstrations. The bowl doesn't fluoresce with LW U/V. > > The "vaseline glass" made by Fenton fluoresces brightly in LW > U/V and gives a response on the most sensitive scale of my > Geiger counter, but not quite as much as with the orange > glazed bowl. The Fenton glass bowl I have was made in the > 1930's, and they're still in business, but don't know if > their current production contains any radioactive or > fluorescent material given the hysteria of some people about > "radioactive". > > Cheers, > Erich > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Axel Emmermann > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:40 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice spikes/Kryptonite > > > > > > BTW Axel, the marbles are actually made of the glass you > describe. Was > > not that actually radioactive in the early days when it was used as > > attractive tableware? Seems I remember another discussion of this > > yellow-green glass and carnival glass on this list. And > they are, at > > least by poetic license, "real" Kryptonite. > > Hi Glenn, > > Uranium oxide is a VERY powerful colorant in glass. Probably > due to the fluorescence even in normal daylight. Since there > is only very little of the oxide used and it 's not > "enriched", the radioactivity of the glass may be very low. > > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From ajs at frii.com Tue Nov 27 11:47:13 2007 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Tue Nov 27 11:47:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) In-Reply-To: <005e01c8309f$71310370$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <20071127194713.DEBA71CC35@io.frii.com> > ...weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest > place that members have camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during > a rockhound trip. Well I've slept on mountaintops 23 times, mostly 13K-14K' elevation in Colorado, but those were "hiking trips," not mainly rockhounding trips. My oddest overnight during primary rockhounding must have been... In my car, reclined in the driver's seat; along with maybe 8 other people in 4-5 other cars, all huddled up in rain and wind so long and intense that even a tent was a bad idea; up high on the Delaney Rim, just south of I80 in Wyoming south of Wamsutter, on the south edge of the Red Desert / Great Divide Basin (of the continental divide). The cars all had condensation running down the insides by morning; 110% humidity. But cold and wet wasn't the worst of it. The mud road had turned into a virtual tarpit. We very slowly and carefully made our way west several miles to the Tipton switchbacks and down several more miles to the interstate. Vehicle undersides and wheelwells were terminally caked with goo. It took me $6, I think, to get the worst of it off at a manual carwash in Rawlins. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Nov 27 13:32:58 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Nov 27 13:33:02 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite In-Reply-To: <002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com> <002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: Well there is plenty of evidence that radiation effects, like many other environmental 'threats' has been greatly exaggerated. Take a look at this article in Der Spiegel I have seen reports from more than a decade ago that debunk a lot of the claims of radiation injuries. Indeed some studies show that people exposed to moderately high levels of radiation have longer life expectancies not reduced. The Curies may well have ingested radium salts which have a well documented health effect. BK On Nov 27, 2007 1:39 PM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Erich, > > Maria Salomee Sk?odowska, AKA Madame Curie, died at age 66 of leukemia. > She > lived in an exiting epoque in which radioactivity was discovered. > In her time it was fashionable to decorate a garden party with blue > radioluminescent vials containing radiumnitrate. She also wore a neclace > with a minut vial of the stuff... After a few weeks her bosom must have > looked like Kentucky fried chicken. Of course, If you don't know you don't > know! Showing cleavage was not really fashionable around the turn of the > 19th century so it would have been her "hidden problem". > > Dose may be a killing factor but prolongued exposure is also dangerous. > Some > Russian chrysoberyl is moderately radioactive and although the crystals do > not appear to be very metamict there is measurable radiation coming from > those specimens. The gem, when used in pendants, is know to cause cancer > of > the thyroid gland an throat. > > It appears that the red and orange fiestaware is colored by uranium too > (it > came as waste from the enrichment plants). Vaseline glass is clored by UO2 > (uranyl). The orange die is probably also another oxide than the divalent > yellow-green stuff.... > > Cheers > Axel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Erich Kern > > Verzonden: dinsdag 27 november 2007 17:33 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / > > ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > The orange glaze on Fiesta Ware is radioactive. An antique > > dealer told me about the radiologic tech who bought a large > > orange Fiesta Ware platter to demonstrate to his classes that > > not everything that sets off a Geiger counter is dangerous. > > He has his wife make a big batch of chocolate chip cookies > > which he serves to his class on the orange platter, then > > brings out the Geiger counter on its most sensitive scale to > > let the class hear the counter chirp away. As toxicologist > > Dr. Bruce Ames says, "the dose makes the poison". I bought a > > small orange Fiesta Ware bowl from this antique dealer to use > > for demonstrations. The bowl doesn't fluoresce with LW U/V. > > > > The "vaseline glass" made by Fenton fluoresces brightly in LW > > U/V and gives a response on the most sensitive scale of my > > Geiger counter, but not quite as much as with the orange > > glazed bowl. The Fenton glass bowl I have was made in the > > 1930's, and they're still in business, but don't know if > > their current production contains any radioactive or > > fluorescent material given the hysteria of some people about > > "radioactive". > > > > Cheers, > > Erich > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Axel Emmermann > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors' > > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:40 AM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice spikes/Kryptonite > > > > > > > > > > BTW Axel, the marbles are actually made of the glass you > > describe. Was > > > not that actually radioactive in the early days when it was used as > > > attractive tableware? Seems I remember another discussion of this > > > yellow-green glass and carnival glass on this list. And > > they are, at > > > least by poetic license, "real" Kryptonite. > > > > Hi Glenn, > > > > Uranium oxide is a VERY powerful colorant in glass. Probably > > due to the fluorescence even in normal daylight. Since there > > is only very little of the oxide used and it 's not > > "enriched", the radioactivity of the glass may be very low. > > > > Axel > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner From prgilmore at hotmail.com Tue Nov 27 18:49:19 2007 From: prgilmore at hotmail.com (Paul Gilmore) Date: Tue Nov 27 18:49:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicles In-Reply-To: <474B3C14.7040900@azgs.az.gov> References: <20071122223439.7B0541CC35@io.frii.com> <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <474B3C14.7040900@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: Thanks very much. Paul> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:35:16 -0700> From: rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Vehicles> > Sorry for the last message, I think I cut out all the goofy parts this time.> > All of my opinions are based on camping and rockhounding in the deserts > and mountains of the southwestern USA.> > 1. I have seen people put in a plywood floor above the bed of the truck > for specimen and tool storage underneath. Most plastic liners have > little notches in them to put crossbeams and make a false floor about > 8-12 inches up. If you made the floor in two pieces you could access the > front of the bed easier. Use at least 1" plywood on 2x4 braces. You'll > still have about 3' of headroom in the shell.> > 2. Wheelbase length> > 3. Don't know that much about SUV's.> > 4. Yes, but you have to get a four-wheel drive package, which includes > beefier suspension and skid plates, which are very important. If you are > not much over 6 feet tall you can get the "6-foot bed", actually about > 6'4" usually, If you are taller than that, you aren't going to fit into > most SUV's (except the monsters) and you'll have to get the long bed > pickup model which probably has a longer wheelbase (see #2 above). I > would also highly recommend the "towing" package, which gives you better > cooling and other nice features, not just a trailer hitch. Forget decent > gas mileage if you want any kind of vehicle that will haul you and your > rocks for trips that last a few days and will have enough power to get > you in and out of the best spots (at least out here in the west). You > might want to check out a low-boy pop-up camper that fits in the bed. My > friend has a "big" Toyota pickup with one of those campers on the back > and it has stove and a heater and some storage space and I've been > pretty impressed with it. Always get an extended cab. You might not need > the space for passengers, but it is really terrific for storage. You > might see my message earlier in this thread for details about our setup > which includes a tent that hooks to the back of the truck, allowing you > to get into the back of the pickup from the tent. If you wanted to use > the truck shell for equipment and storage you could get a cot and/or an > air mattress and sleep in the tent instead of in the back of the truck. > Any small tent you buy these days can be put up and taken down in 10 > minutes or less. I prefer tents you can stand up in. Use backpacking > tents for backpacking, not rockhounding.> > 5. I would take just about any 8 cylinder pickup truck with 4WD package > and towing package. The shorter the bed length the more nimble it will > be. I bought my F150 and a very good shell for a total of around $30,000 > about 7 years ago. My wife tells me we're going to get a new truck next > year. I expect to spend closer to $40,000 for it.> > I'm all up-to-date on my colonoscopies, but thanks anyway.> > One other thought is that you might get a diesel engine for better gas > mileage.> > Paul Gilmore wrote:> > Folks:> > > > This is a very timely thread. I am planning my next vehicle (aren't we always?) to handle the poor roads of back country mineral collecting on long trips. Having bottomed out and lost an oil filter once, I am looking for good ground clearance. Having shredded the drive tire of a pick-up truck rental, I am very concerned about tough tires. I would like to be able to sleep in my vehicle if necessary, so the truck-tent concept is an interesting one. Finally, reliability is paramount since I am not an auto mechanic.> > > > Questions: > > > > If I use a pickup truck cargo bed to camp in, won't I be short of storage space for specimen tonnage?> > > > Why does a Jeep Wrangler get you places that an F-150 may not?> > > > Is there an SUV that is built on a truck chassis that doesn't cost as much as two trucks?> > > > Can you have reliability, decent gas mileage, ground clearance, storage space and room to stretch out and sleep (if necessary)? > > > > Most people sound happy with what they've got. What vehicle would you own if a genie were granting wishes?> > > > (Free colonoscopies for helpful suggestions.)> > > > Paul Gilmore (MD)> > > > > > -- > Rick Trapp> Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey> rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov> > > > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista? + Windows Live?. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Tue Nov 27 19:17:00 2007 From: gene at fossilnut.com (gene@fossilnut.com) Date: Tue Nov 27 19:17:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water Glass as Fracture Filler References: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com><008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> <6AF14BE9-AD8A-4E5E-8357-48D661EE7CFC@mc.net><005e01c8309f$71310370$0200a8c0@Notebook><474B892E.7060802@arczip.com> Message-ID: <001701c8316d$24f82e60$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Water glass (sodium silicate) is made by reacting sodium oxide or hydroxide with silicon dioxide. The sodium solubilizes the silica. Once made, it can only be destroyed by removing the sodium or replacing it with an insoluble ion like calcium. Having said that, if dried thoroughly it may be difficult to redissolve in a reasonable time without lots of hot water.. I used to run a factory that made over 100 million pounds a year of the stuff a year. It was made there by fusion of soda ash with silica sand. The resulting glass, essentially a water free sodium silicate needed to be put into solution with water under pressure (to get it to dissolve in a reasonable period of time) so we could sell the solution. When we would rebuild the furnace, the glass (solid anhydrous sodium silicate) that remained in the furnace and hardened was popular as decoration glass. If left outside it would slowly dissolve with each rain. It was positively not suitable for fish tanks. However for a stone, though it can dissolve in water, the dissolution at room temperature with only occasional wetting may be slow enough to protect the stone from a practical standpoint. After all it is used to protect some cardboard containers from getting soft when wet. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:41 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Water Glass as Fracture Filler > > >> Hello All, > > The topic of using water glass as a fracture filler has come up on another > list I subscribe to. One poster said that if it was heated to about 200 C > the water glass became insoluble, hard, and permanent. That surprised me, > for that it is indeed the case it seems to me that we have a sort of > quartz-in-a-bottle which would be an unsurpassed material for permanently > fracture filling just about anything. Yet the wide use of opticon and > similar polymers seems to indicate that heated water glass is *not* such a > magic bullet. > > I'd be grateful if some of the more chemically savvy list members and > experienced cutters would elaborate on the properties, permanence, and > suitability of the stuff in fracture filling, its advantages and its > drawbacks. > > Cheers, > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From gene at fossilnut.com Tue Nov 27 19:17:12 2007 From: gene at fossilnut.com (gene@fossilnut.com) Date: Tue Nov 27 19:17:24 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Water Glass as Fracture Filler References: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com><008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> <6AF14BE9-AD8A-4E5E-8357-48D661EE7CFC@mc.net><005e01c8309f$71310370$0200a8c0@Notebook><474B892E.7060802@arczip.com> Message-ID: <001801c8316d$2ca00520$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Water glass (sodium silicate) is made by reacting sodium oxide or hydroxide with silicon dioxide. The sodium solubilizes the silica. Once made, it can only be destroyed by removing the sodium or replacing it with an insoluble ion like calcium. Having said that, if dried thoroughly it may be difficult to redissolve in a reasonable time without lots of hot water.. I used to run a factory that made over 100 million pounds a year of the stuff a year. It was made there by fusion of soda ash with silica sand. The resulting glass, essentially a water free sodium silicate needed to be put into solution with water under pressure (to get it to dissolve in a reasonable period of time) so we could sell the solution. When we would rebuild the furnace, the glass (solid anhydrous sodium silicate) that remained in the furnace and hardened was popular as decoration glass. If left outside it would slowly dissolve with each rain. It was positively not suitable for fish tanks. However for a stone, though it can dissolve in water, the dissolution at room temperature with only occasional wetting may be slow enough to protect the stone from a practical standpoint. After all it is used to protect some cardboard containers from getting soft when wet. Gene Hartstein Newark, DE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Durstling" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 10:41 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Water Glass as Fracture Filler > > >> Hello All, > > The topic of using water glass as a fracture filler has come up on another > list I subscribe to. One poster said that if it was heated to about 200 C > the water glass became insoluble, hard, and permanent. That surprised me, > for that it is indeed the case it seems to me that we have a sort of > quartz-in-a-bottle which would be an unsurpassed material for permanently > fracture filling just about anything. Yet the wide use of opticon and > similar polymers seems to indicate that heated water glass is *not* such a > magic bullet. > > I'd be grateful if some of the more chemically savvy list members and > experienced cutters would elaborate on the properties, permanence, and > suitability of the stuff in fracture filling, its advantages and its > drawbacks. > > Cheers, > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From gene at fossilnut.com Tue Nov 27 19:29:03 2007 From: gene at fossilnut.com (gene@fossilnut.com) Date: Tue Nov 27 19:29:12 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <009101c8316e$d42c0f40$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> I have used the Fiesta Ware and other red-orange pottery from the same period (California ware, Caliente Ware and others) to demonstrate radioactivity to folks at shows. I gave one to a fellow who is a radiation officer in a hospital. He uses it to create a balanced perspective on the relative risks of radioactive materials. BTW the pieces I have don't need to have the meter set at sensitive, as long as I am using a sensor that will react to beta particles. It will essentially bury the needle at all but the least sensitive settings, but the radaiton will be stopped by several sheets of aluminum foil. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erich Kern" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite Hi All, The orange glaze on Fiesta Ware is radioactive. An antique dealer told me about the radiologic tech who bought a large orange Fiesta Ware platter to demonstrate to his classes that not everything that sets off a Geiger counter is dangerous. He has his wife make a big batch of chocolate chip cookies which he serves to his class on the orange platter, then brings out the Geiger counter on its most sensitive scale to let the class hear the counter chirp away. As toxicologist Dr. Bruce Ames says, "the dose makes the poison". I bought a small orange Fiesta Ware bowl from this antique dealer to use for demonstrations. The bowl doesn't fluoresce with LW U/V. The "vaseline glass" made by Fenton fluoresces brightly in LW U/V and gives a response on the most sensitive scale of my Geiger counter, but not quite as much as with the orange glazed bowl. The Fenton glass bowl I have was made in the 1930's, and they're still in business, but don't know if their current production contains any radioactive or fluorescent material given the hysteria of some people about "radioactive". Cheers, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: Axel Emmermann To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:40 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice spikes/Kryptonite > > BTW Axel, the marbles are actually made of the glass you > describe. Was not that actually radioactive in the early days > when it was used as attractive tableware? Seems I remember > another discussion of this yellow-green glass and carnival > glass on this list. And they are, at least by poetic license, > "real" Kryptonite. Hi Glenn, Uranium oxide is a VERY powerful colorant in glass. Probably due to the fluorescence even in normal daylight. Since there is only very little of the oxide used and it 's not "enriched", the radioactivity of the glass may be very low. Axel -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Tue Nov 27 22:08:30 2007 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Tue Nov 27 22:09:10 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Vehicle driving tips References: <474323.99991.qm@web34313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002101c83185$25e05790$655fe842@Titans> Yes Peter, well done. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Daly" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Vehicle driving tips > Good advice. The part about crossing a ditch in particular. I often scrape > the hitch when crossing a ditch. > Jim Daly > > Peter Sparks wrote: > I've been enjoying the discussion on which vehicle features to get. I > think it's equally important to know how to drive to that collecting > site and out again. To get started ... > > Driving across ditches and embankments: I drive a slight diagonal to > them so that at one point I'm balanced on two wheels and pivot across > the span. Going straight across means I will scrape and hang up on the > frame. A short wheel based helps negate this problem. It's a little > scary the first time it's tried. > > Distributing weight: I generally pack towards the front and work back, > and it's nicer if I can secure the load so it doesn't shift. Because I > max out the truck I'm careful about keeping the weight even > side-to-side. Too much weight over the axel means my front starts > getting light. > > Off roading: If I'm in the desert I don't off road since there's too > great a chance of sinking to my axel. I carry a shovel, extra boards, > jack, water, ... > > Steep hills: Downshift. Going down I avoid using the brake and then > only for short periods. > > GPS and compass and maps: need I say more? > > Background > I drive a 1997 Ford F-150, 8' bed, regular cab, 2 wheel drive, 5-speed > manual, Astro cap, sprayed-in liner. I like in Michigan and have taken > it over the Rockies four times, around Lake Superior once, to Winnipeg > and parts north and west, to Kentucky, Maryland, Virginia, ... > > -- Peter Sparks > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try > it now. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Nov 28 02:40:10 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 28 03:40:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite In-Reply-To: References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP><001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder><002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <000d01c831ab$0d61eff0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Hi Brian, If you have been following the news about Alexander Litvinenko, it becomes painfully obvious that a few micrograms of polonium will kill a human. There's also some "normal toxicity" involved but that's trivial in comparison with the radiological damage that the radio-isotope inflicts. There's also the story of depleted uranium which seems to make people sick. There are also stories about Ukrainian fire fighters who heroically fought the Tsjernobyl runaway reactor. Some of them officially received lethal doses of radiation and yet, after 20 years, some of those are still alive. If you can call it that. I recently saw a documentary about it which included some interviews with these victims. They are kept alive with medication, surgery, chemo... Most of them have been diagnosed with different cancers many times. Since they are closely followed by medical science they are not allowed to die. They have become something of a prestige project to prove to the world that even the worst case scenario of nuclear energy is not so bad as we think... See what happened to some the scientists that worked on the Manhattan Project. Leukemia catches up with you eventually, even decades later... For those who want a little more insight of the mechanics that make (for example) Polonium 210 such a lethal substance: http://www.mjwcorp.com/rad_dose_assessments_poloniumarticle.php I have a friend, a colleague at my club who thought, just like you, that a little radiation couldn't hurt no one. He collected uranium minerals. The guy started getting weaker and sick and anemic. His blood count was off the scale. Medical science managed to restore him to reasonable health although he still suffers from relapses. So yes, this proves your point that radiation effects are exaggerated if you only count the deaths and discard the suffering. Ultimately this discussion is futile because the outcome is determined purely by Darwinistic reasoning. There are those who are confident that radioactivity is not so bad and those who think it is. Future scientists will call it "survival of the smartest", whoever that may be Cheers Axel > Well there is plenty of evidence that radiation effects, like > many other environmental 'threats' has been greatly > exaggerated. Take a look at this article in Der Spiegel > > > > I have seen reports from more than a decade ago that debunk a > lot of the claims of radiation injuries. Indeed some studies > show that people exposed to moderately high levels of > radiation have longer life expectancies not reduced. > > The Curies may well have ingested radium salts which have a > well documented health effect. > > BK > > > On Nov 27, 2007 1:39 PM, Axel Emmermann > wrote: > > > Hi Erich, > > > > Maria Salomee Sk?odowska, AKA Madame Curie, died at age 66 > of leukemia. > > She > > lived in an exiting epoque in which radioactivity was discovered. > > In her time it was fashionable to decorate a garden party with blue > > radioluminescent vials containing radiumnitrate. She also wore a > > neclace with a minut vial of the stuff... After a few weeks > her bosom > > must have looked like Kentucky fried chicken. Of course, If > you don't > > know you don't know! Showing cleavage was not really fashionable > > around the turn of the 19th century so it would have been > her "hidden problem". > > > > Dose may be a killing factor but prolongued exposure is > also dangerous. > > Some > > Russian chrysoberyl is moderately radioactive and although the > > crystals do not appear to be very metamict there is measurable > > radiation coming from those specimens. The gem, when used > in pendants, > > is know to cause cancer of the thyroid gland an throat. > > > > It appears that the red and orange fiestaware is colored by uranium > > too (it came as waste from the enrichment plants). Vaseline > glass is > > clored by UO2 (uranyl). The orange die is probably also > another oxide > > than the divalent yellow-green stuff.... > > > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Erich Kern > > > Verzonden: dinsdag 27 november 2007 17:33 > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > collectors > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / ice > > > crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > The orange glaze on Fiesta Ware is radioactive. An antique dealer > > > told me about the radiologic tech who bought a large > orange Fiesta > > > Ware platter to demonstrate to his classes that not > everything that > > > sets off a Geiger counter is dangerous. > > > He has his wife make a big batch of chocolate chip > cookies which he > > > serves to his class on the orange platter, then brings out the > > > Geiger counter on its most sensitive scale to let the > class hear the > > > counter chirp away. As toxicologist Dr. Bruce Ames says, > "the dose > > > makes the poison". I bought a small orange Fiesta Ware bowl from > > > this antique dealer to use for demonstrations. The bowl doesn't > > > fluoresce with LW U/V. > > > > > > The "vaseline glass" made by Fenton fluoresces brightly in LW U/V > > > and gives a response on the most sensitive scale of my Geiger > > > counter, but not quite as much as with the orange glazed > bowl. The > > > Fenton glass bowl I have was made in the 1930's, and > they're still > > > in business, but don't know if their current production > contains any > > > radioactive or fluorescent material given the hysteria of some > > > people about "radioactive". > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Erich > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Axel Emmermann > > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > collectors' > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:40 AM > > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice spikes/Kryptonite > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW Axel, the marbles are actually made of the glass you > > > describe. Was > > > > not that actually radioactive in the early days when it > was used > > > > as attractive tableware? Seems I remember another discussion of > > > > this yellow-green glass and carnival glass on this list. And > > > they are, at > > > > least by poetic license, "real" Kryptonite. > > > > > > Hi Glenn, > > > > > > Uranium oxide is a VERY powerful colorant in glass. > Probably due to > > > the fluorescence even in normal daylight. Since there is > only very > > > little of the oxide used and it 's not "enriched", the > radioactivity > > > of the glass may be very low. > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > J?y???0??????????n??? > From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Nov 28 05:18:23 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Nov 28 05:18:29 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite In-Reply-To: <000d01c831ab$0d61eff0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com> <002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <000d01c831ab$0d61eff0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: 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line of thought... In a message dated 11/27/2007 12:47:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, ajs@frii.com writes: > ...weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest > place that members have camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during > a rockhound trip. About three years ago, heading home after the Tucson Show, I left Tucson after dark Sunday evening and planned to camp out in the desert; I knew of a good place to get off I-10 onto some dirt roads near the AZ-NM border (Steins Pass), where I'd stopped on my way out and gone for a little hike--found some neat volcanic rocks there, though no minerals of note. So I pulled off; since I knew where I wanted to go it was easy even in the dark; and parked about a mile from the interstate. Well, because it was (a) pitch dark, (b) ground all rocks & cactus, and (c) it had been a rainy last few days so all was quite damp, and as I've mentioned there isn't quite room enough to sleep in the back of my Cherokee especially when it's packed full of stuff, I just tossed my air matress & sleeping bag up on the roof, carefully climbed up there (so as not to dent the sheet metal with a knee or a foot), and slept very comfortably on the roof--first time, then or since, that I've ever done that. My Jeep has a little roof rack, so the railing provided reasonable assurance that I wouldn't roll off. In the morning I was treated to about the most magnicent sunrise I'd ever seen; clouds and colors kept changing as the sun moved up toward the various hanging clouds and fog banks down low in the valleys to the south, and I took "gazilions" of pictures with my digital camera. Pete Modreski, Denver CO **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Nov 28 08:01:04 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Nov 28 08:01:20 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite In-Reply-To: <002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP><001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder> <002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <00a601c831d7$e30c1a50$6501a8c0@okapi> When I was a kid, probably back in the mid 50's, I had a small melanoma removed from my face by a doctor in New York City using radium. I can remember the feel of the metal tube against my cheek, and the click of the lead shutter that exposed the radium. I still have small "dent" on my cheek from it. Scary doctor, though. Just stubs for fingers. Turns out he trained under Curie as a VERY young man and lost all his fingers in the process. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Axel Emmermann > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:39 PM > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / > icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > > Hi Erich, > > Maria Salomee Sk?odowska, AKA Madame Curie, died at age 66 of > leukemia. She lived in an exiting epoque in which > radioactivity was discovered. > In her time it was fashionable to decorate a garden party ... From efkern at earthlink.net Wed Nov 28 08:45:51 2007 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Wed Nov 28 08:46:10 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware /icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP><001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder><002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP><000d01c831ab$0d61eff0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <006201c831de$241f4930$57fcf604@TheBlackAdder> What Bryan says is completely correct in my understanding. The theory that holds any radiation is dangerous is called the "linear, no threshold hypothesis" and has been proved false years ago, although some still adhere to it to advance their "no nuke" agenda. Chernobyl is often used as an example of the dangers of nuclear power generation, but few realise the Chernobyl reactors did not have containment domes around them as all US reactors do. Which by the way would not be breached by an airliner flying directly into one of them according to a physics professor friend. He know how they're built. Erich Kern Murrieta, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: J Bryan Kramer To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 5:18 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware /icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite Axel, I made mention of the fact that internal ingestion of radium or americium for that matter is a very serious issue. That's probably what killed the Curies altho their careless handling of radium might have done it thru external dosage. And the firefighters at Chernobyl received very high external doses. I'm not adjusted to the new units but they got doses in the hundreds of rems. And as the article points out doses in those ranges are well documented to be serious or fatal. There were some cases in the US where workers received doses over 2000 REM and the results were immediately fatal. And I think there was an incident in Soviet era Romania where a number of workers at a reactor there were exposed to high levels of radiation. I think they were moved to France and given heroic medical treatments which saved at least some of them. But once you get the external dosage down below a whole body 100-200 rems the damage issue has become much less clear and there doesn't seem to be any epidemiological evidence that shows any sort of population damage. There seems to be a threshold dose, and below that dose there seems to be little or no damage. The idea that there is a linear gradient of damage which extends from the low millirem dosage to hundreds of rems seems to be wrong. The obvious explanation may be that the body can repair damage below a certain level and it is only when the damage exceeds that level does long term or fatal damage to the body occur. So the thought that hundreds of thousands of people were injured by Chernobyl or by any of several Soviet disasters seems to be hysteria. Three mile island only released a few hundred microcuries of short lived Krypton isotopes was a radiological non-event. So yes concentrated radiation to a small area of the body is injurious, internal radiation from alpha emitters is injurious. But small to moderate whole body doses of radiation do not seem to be the problem that some people like to think that they are. BK On Nov 28, 2007 5:40 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Brian, > > If you have been following the news about Alexander Litvinenko, it becomes > painfully obvious that a few micrograms of polonium will kill a human. > There's also some "normal toxicity" involved but that's trivial in > comparison with the radiological damage that the radio-isotope inflicts. > There's also the story of depleted uranium which seems to make people > sick. > There are also stories about Ukrainian fire fighters who heroically fought > the Tsjernobyl runaway reactor. Some of them officially received lethal > doses of radiation and yet, after 20 years, some of those are still alive. > If you can call it that. I recently saw a documentary about it which > included some interviews with these victims. They are kept alive with > medication, surgery, chemo... Most of them have been diagnosed with > different cancers many times. Since they are closely followed by medical > science they are not allowed to die. They have become something of a > prestige project to prove to the world that even the worst case scenario > of > nuclear energy is not so bad as we think... > See what happened to some the scientists that worked on the Manhattan > Project. Leukemia catches up with you eventually, even decades later... > > For those who want a little more insight of the mechanics that make (for > example) Polonium 210 such a lethal substance: > http://www.mjwcorp.com/rad_dose_assessments_poloniumarticle.php > > I have a friend, a colleague at my club who thought, just like you, that a > little radiation couldn't hurt no one. He collected uranium minerals. The > guy started getting weaker and sick and anemic. His blood count was off > the > scale. Medical science managed to restore him to reasonable health > although > he still suffers from relapses. > So yes, this proves your point that radiation effects are exaggerated if > you > only count the deaths and discard the suffering. > > Ultimately this discussion is futile because the outcome is determined > purely by Darwinistic reasoning. > There are those who are confident that radioactivity is not so bad and > those > who think it is. > Future scientists will call it "survival of the smartest", whoever that > may > be > > Cheers > > Axel > > > > > Well there is plenty of evidence that radiation effects, like > > many other environmental 'threats' has been greatly > > exaggerated. Take a look at this article in Der Spiegel > > > > > > > > I have seen reports from more than a decade ago that debunk a > > lot of the claims of radiation injuries. Indeed some studies > > show that people exposed to moderately high levels of > > radiation have longer life expectancies not reduced. > > > > The Curies may well have ingested radium salts which have a > > well documented health effect. > > > > BK > > > > > > On Nov 27, 2007 1:39 PM, Axel Emmermann > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Erich, > > > > > > Maria Salomee Sk?odowska, AKA Madame Curie, died at age 66 > > of leukemia. > > > She > > > lived in an exiting epoque in which radioactivity was discovered. > > > In her time it was fashionable to decorate a garden party with blue > > > radioluminescent vials containing radiumnitrate. She also wore a > > > neclace with a minut vial of the stuff... After a few weeks > > her bosom > > > must have looked like Kentucky fried chicken. Of course, If > > you don't > > > know you don't know! Showing cleavage was not really fashionable > > > around the turn of the 19th century so it would have been > > her "hidden problem". > > > > > > Dose may be a killing factor but prolongued exposure is > > also dangerous. > > > Some > > > Russian chrysoberyl is moderately radioactive and although the > > > crystals do not appear to be very metamict there is measurable > > > radiation coming from those specimens. The gem, when used > > in pendants, > > > is know to cause cancer of the thyroid gland an throat. > > > > > > It appears that the red and orange fiestaware is colored by uranium > > > too (it came as waste from the enrichment plants). Vaseline > > glass is > > > clored by UO2 (uranyl). The orange die is probably also > > another oxide > > > than the divalent yellow-green stuff.... > > > > > > Cheers > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Erich Kern > > > > Verzonden: dinsdag 27 november 2007 17:33 > > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > > collectors > > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / ice > > > > crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > The orange glaze on Fiesta Ware is radioactive. An antique dealer > > > > told me about the radiologic tech who bought a large > > orange Fiesta > > > > Ware platter to demonstrate to his classes that not > > everything that > > > > sets off a Geiger counter is dangerous. > > > > He has his wife make a big batch of chocolate chip > > cookies which he > > > > serves to his class on the orange platter, then brings out the > > > > Geiger counter on its most sensitive scale to let the > > class hear the > > > > counter chirp away. As toxicologist Dr. Bruce Ames says, > > "the dose > > > > makes the poison". I bought a small orange Fiesta Ware bowl from > > > > this antique dealer to use for demonstrations. The bowl doesn't > > > > fluoresce with LW U/V. > > > > > > > > The "vaseline glass" made by Fenton fluoresces brightly in LW U/V > > > > and gives a response on the most sensitive scale of my Geiger > > > > counter, but not quite as much as with the orange glazed > > bowl. The > > > > Fenton glass bowl I have was made in the 1930's, and > > they're still > > > > in business, but don't know if their current production > > contains any > > > > radioactive or fluorescent material given the hysteria of some > > > > people about "radioactive". > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Erich > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Axel Emmermann > > > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > > collectors' > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:40 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice spikes/Kryptonite > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW Axel, the marbles are actually made of the glass you > > > > describe. Was > > > > > not that actually radioactive in the early days when it > > was used > > > > > as attractive tableware? Seems I remember another discussion of > > > > > this yellow-green glass and carnival glass on this list. And > > > > they are, at > > > > > least by poetic license, "real" Kryptonite. > > > > > > > > Hi Glenn, > > > > > > > > Uranium oxide is a VERY powerful colorant in glass. > > Probably due to > > > > the fluorescence even in normal daylight. Since there is > > only very > > > > little of the oxide used and it 's not "enriched", the > > radioactivity > > > > of the glass may be very low. > > > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > > multipart/alternative > > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > > text/html > > > > --- > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > J Bryan Kramer > > North Florida, USA > > photos at: > > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > J?y???0??????????n??? > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner J?????y???i?? ???0?????k??*Z????????b??^????????mn?r??m??m?f -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kugeln at peoplepc.com Wed Nov 28 10:22:02 2007 From: kugeln at peoplepc.com (kugeln@peoplepc.com) Date: Wed Nov 28 10:22:16 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) References: Message-ID: <009201c831eb$940aa3e0$93b45545@JOHN> Pete, If you search for Australian car tents you'll eventually find your way to very ingeneous rooftop tents. John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 7:18 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) > > I can't resist responding to this line of thought... > > In a message dated 11/27/2007 12:47:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, > ajs@frii.com writes: > >> ...weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest >> place that members have camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during >> a rockhound trip. > > > > About three years ago, heading home after the Tucson Show, I left Tucson > after dark Sunday evening and planned to camp out in the desert; I knew of > a > good place to get off I-10 onto some dirt roads near the AZ-NM border > (Steins > Pass), where I'd stopped on my way out and gone for a little hike--found > some > neat volcanic rocks there, though no minerals of note. So I pulled off; > since > I knew where I wanted to go it was easy even in the dark; and parked > about a > mile from the interstate. Well, because it was (a) pitch dark, (b) > ground > all rocks & cactus, and (c) it had been a rainy last few days so all was > quite > damp, and as I've mentioned there isn't quite room enough to sleep in the > back of my Cherokee especially when it's packed full of stuff, I just > tossed my > air matress & sleeping bag up on the roof, carefully climbed up there (so > as > not to dent the sheet metal with a knee or a foot), and slept very > comfortably on the roof--first time, then or since, that I've ever done > that. My Jeep > has a little roof rack, so the railing provided reasonable assurance that > I > wouldn't roll off. In the morning I was treated to about the most > magnicent > sunrise I'd ever seen; clouds and colors kept changing as the sun moved > up > toward the various hanging clouds and fog banks down low in the valleys > to the > south, and I took "gazilions" of pictures with my digital camera. > > Pete Modreski, Denver CO > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Nov 28 10:36:27 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 28 11:37:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware/icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite In-Reply-To: <006201c831de$241f4930$57fcf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP><001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder><002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP><000d01c831ab$0d61eff0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <006201c831de$241f4930$57fcf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <006e01c831ed$96501520$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Hi Erich and Bryan, There is no doubt that we need nuclear power.... That is a direct result of the powers that be finally and officially yielding to the idea that our civilization's CO2 exhaust is on of the major problems that humanity faces. Without nuclear power we just would have to keep burning coal and oil. Some day the nuclear lobby will yield to the idea that renewable energy is the way to go and that radioactivity really IS dangerous. It's a cycle, kind of a tide... And just like the tide you cannot fight it because the people behind it are in fact a major faction among the decision makers. Personally I believe that some radiation is permissible and perhaps even harmless while other, seemingly trivial radiation sources are real killers. I just don't trust the decision makers to tell us which ones are good and which aren't. Just like my suspicions about climatic change and CO2 are now on the official side of policy making opinion. It's like with mobile phones. Everybody says that we need them but people forget they heat up our brains with their microwaves. Right, I found a study which states that cell phones don NOT cause brain tumors. This study was funded AND carried out by...tadaaaa... Sony-Ericsson. Yes, the guys that make... ahem...yes, mobile phones. In fact, Mr Eriksson's wife died of a brain tumor. Since the early days technology has improved and the antennae radiate only milliwatts/m? now but it still is the same wavelength that supposedly killed misses Ericsson. There is way too much money involved to even begin questioning the safety of mobile phones. Again , it's Darwinism at it's best. Some people are genetically better equipped to withstands the ill effects of microwaves. They will survive. Others will get sick and perhaps die. Time will tell whether I'm right or wrong but I find it morally wrong to take chances with people's wellbeing. I know what UV-C can do to your skin. I felt it. Gamma radiation is even more energetic EM radiation. It ionizes everything it hits and is quite adequate in destroying DNA and cell membranes. Beta radiation has the power to destroy chemical bonds. It bombards matter with high energy electrons. Gamma radiation can be stopped by a few inches of air but I would not ingest a source of it. It would be your living tissue absorbing the energy of fast moving helium nuclei. When someone says you have to have to ingest a radioactive substance in order for it to be dangerous, we forget that: - Radioactivity breaks down matter (metamictisation), thereby creating extremely fine dust that contaminates the air. - Some decay cycles (uranium, thorium, radium) produce radon, a radioactive element that you inhale. When it decays in your lungs it forms polonium 216 and later polonium 212 (among others). Each atoms causes 5 alpha decays and 4 beta decays. Luckily there is no polonium 210 formed (just kidding, of course) - Due to metamictisation it is nearly impossible to keep a "hot" high risk isotope confined to it's container. It spreads eventually and gets into the environment. Then it is a matter of ionic radius which atoms in our body it will replace. (radioactive strontium replacing calcium in our bones, for instance). That is why Technetium 99 is reasonably safe to inject people with for medical scans. It's atomic diameter is too different from most of the atoms in our body. It is not retained and leaves the body with the urine. Radioactive iodine, strontium, barium, cesium, tritium, et long cetera, is quite another matter. Again, everybody is allowed his/her opinion. I just choose to be careful with my life and, if permitted, with the lives of other people. I've been wrong before, but then again... I've been right before too. That's why I choose to think for myself and not take anything for granted. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Erich Kern > Verzonden: woensdag 28 november 2007 17:46 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta > Ware/icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > > > > What Bryan says is completely correct in my understanding. > The theory that holds any radiation is dangerous is called > the "linear, no threshold hypothesis" and has been proved > false years ago, although some still adhere to it to advance > their "no nuke" agenda. > > Chernobyl is often used as an example of the dangers of > nuclear power generation, but few realise the Chernobyl > reactors did not have containment domes around them as all US > reactors do. Which by the way would not be breached by an > airliner flying directly into one of them according to a > physics professor friend. He know how they're built. > > Erich Kern > Murrieta, CA > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: J Bryan Kramer > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 5:18 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware > /icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > > > Axel, I made mention of the fact that internal ingestion of > radium or americium for that matter is a very serious issue. > That's probably what killed the Curies altho their careless > handling of radium might have done it thru external dosage. > > And the firefighters at Chernobyl received very high external > doses. I'm not adjusted to the new units but they got doses > in the hundreds of rems. And as the article points out doses > in those ranges are well documented to be serious or fatal. > There were some cases in the US where workers received doses > over 2000 REM and the results were immediately fatal. And I > think there was an incident in Soviet era Romania where a > number of workers at a reactor there were exposed to high > levels of radiation. I think they were moved to France and > given heroic medical treatments which saved at least some of them. > > But once you get the external dosage down below a whole body > 100-200 rems the damage issue has become much less clear and > there doesn't seem to be any epidemiological evidence that > shows any sort of population damage. There seems to be a > threshold dose, and below that dose there seems to be little > or no damage. The idea that there is a linear gradient of > damage which extends from the low millirem dosage to > hundreds of rems seems to be wrong. > The obvious explanation may be that the body can repair > damage below a certain level and it is only when the damage > exceeds that level does long term or fatal damage to the body occur. > > So the thought that hundreds of thousands of people were > injured by Chernobyl or by any of several Soviet disasters > seems to be hysteria. Three mile island only released a few > hundred microcuries of short lived Krypton isotopes was a > radiological non-event. > > So yes concentrated radiation to a small area of the body is > injurious, internal radiation from alpha emitters is > injurious. But small to moderate whole body doses of > radiation do not seem to be the problem that some people like > to think that they are. > > BK > > > On Nov 28, 2007 5:40 AM, Axel Emmermann > wrote: > > > Hi Brian, > > > > If you have been following the news about Alexander Litvinenko, it > > becomes painfully obvious that a few micrograms of polonium > will kill a human. > > There's also some "normal toxicity" involved but that's trivial in > > comparison with the radiological damage that the > radio-isotope inflicts. > > There's also the story of depleted uranium which seems to > make people > > sick. > > There are also stories about Ukrainian fire fighters who heroically > > fought the Tsjernobyl runaway reactor. Some of them officially > > received lethal doses of radiation and yet, after 20 years, > some of those are still alive. > > If you can call it that. I recently saw a documentary about > it which > > included some interviews with these victims. They are kept > alive with > > medication, surgery, chemo... Most of them have been diagnosed with > > different cancers many times. Since they are closely followed by > > medical science they are not allowed to die. They have become > > something of a prestige project to prove to the world that even the > > worst case scenario of nuclear energy is not so bad as we think... > > See what happened to some the scientists that worked on the > Manhattan > > Project. Leukemia catches up with you eventually, even > decades later... > > > > For those who want a little more insight of the mechanics that make > > (for > > example) Polonium 210 such a lethal substance: > > http://www.mjwcorp.com/rad_dose_assessments_poloniumarticle.php > > > > I have a friend, a colleague at my club who thought, just like you, > > that a little radiation couldn't hurt no one. He collected uranium > > minerals. The guy started getting weaker and sick and anemic. His > > blood count was off the scale. Medical science managed to > restore him > > to reasonable health although he still suffers from relapses. > > So yes, this proves your point that radiation effects are > exaggerated > > if you only count the deaths and discard the suffering. > > > > Ultimately this discussion is futile because the outcome is > determined > > purely by Darwinistic reasoning. > > There are those who are confident that radioactivity is not > so bad and > > those who think it is. > > Future scientists will call it "survival of the smartest", whoever > > that may be > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > Well there is plenty of evidence that radiation effects, > like many > > > other environmental 'threats' has been greatly > exaggerated. Take a > > > look at this article in Der Spiegel > > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen reports from more than a decade ago that > debunk a lot of > > > the claims of radiation injuries. Indeed some studies show that > > > people exposed to moderately high levels of radiation have longer > > > life expectancies not reduced. > > > > > > The Curies may well have ingested radium salts which have a well > > > documented health effect. > > > > > > BK > > > > > > > > > On Nov 27, 2007 1:39 PM, Axel Emmermann > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Erich, > > > > > > > > Maria Salomee Sk?odowska, AKA Madame Curie, died at age 66 > > > of leukemia. > > > > She > > > > lived in an exiting epoque in which radioactivity was > discovered. > > > > In her time it was fashionable to decorate a garden party with > > > > blue radioluminescent vials containing radiumnitrate. She also > > > > wore a neclace with a minut vial of the stuff... After > a few weeks > > > her bosom > > > > must have looked like Kentucky fried chicken. Of course, If > > > you don't > > > > know you don't know! Showing cleavage was not really > fashionable > > > > around the turn of the 19th century so it would have been > > > her "hidden problem". > > > > > > > > Dose may be a killing factor but prolongued exposure is > > > also dangerous. > > > > Some > > > > Russian chrysoberyl is moderately radioactive and although the > > > > crystals do not appear to be very metamict there is measurable > > > > radiation coming from those specimens. The gem, when used > > > in pendants, > > > > is know to cause cancer of the thyroid gland an throat. > > > > > > > > It appears that the red and orange fiestaware is colored by > > > > uranium too (it came as waste from the enrichment plants). > > > > Vaseline > > > glass is > > > > clored by UO2 (uranyl). The orange die is probably also > > > another oxide > > > > than the divalent yellow-green stuff.... > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens > Erich Kern > > > > > Verzonden: dinsdag 27 november 2007 17:33 > > > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > > > collectors > > > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / > > > > > ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > The orange glaze on Fiesta Ware is radioactive. An antique > > > > > dealer told me about the radiologic tech who bought a large > > > orange Fiesta > > > > > Ware platter to demonstrate to his classes that not > > > everything that > > > > > sets off a Geiger counter is dangerous. > > > > > He has his wife make a big batch of chocolate chip > > > cookies which he > > > > > serves to his class on the orange platter, then > brings out the > > > > > Geiger counter on its most sensitive scale to let the > > > class hear the > > > > > counter chirp away. As toxicologist Dr. Bruce Ames says, > > > "the dose > > > > > makes the poison". I bought a small orange Fiesta Ware bowl > > > > > from this antique dealer to use for demonstrations. The bowl > > > > > doesn't fluoresce with LW U/V. > > > > > > > > > > The "vaseline glass" made by Fenton fluoresces brightly in LW > > > > > U/V and gives a response on the most sensitive scale of my > > > > > Geiger counter, but not quite as much as with the > orange glazed > > > bowl. The > > > > > Fenton glass bowl I have was made in the 1930's, and > > > they're still > > > > > in business, but don't know if their current production > > > contains any > > > > > radioactive or fluorescent material given the > hysteria of some > > > > > people about "radioactive". > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Erich > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: Axel Emmermann > > > > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > > > collectors' > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:40 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice > spikes/Kryptonite > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW Axel, the marbles are actually made of the glass you > > > > > describe. Was > > > > > > not that actually radioactive in the early days when it > > > was used > > > > > > as attractive tableware? Seems I remember another > discussion > > > > > > of this yellow-green glass and carnival glass on this list. > > > > > > And > > > > > they are, at > > > > > > least by poetic license, "real" Kryptonite. > > > > > > > > > > Hi Glenn, > > > > > > > > > > Uranium oxide is a VERY powerful colorant in glass. > > > Probably due to > > > > > the fluorescence even in normal daylight. Since there is > > > only very > > > > > little of the oxide used and it 's not "enriched", the > > > radioactivity > > > > > of the glass may be very low. > > > > > > > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > > > multipart/alternative > > > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > > > text/html > > > > > --- > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > J Bryan Kramer > > > North Florida, USA > > > photos at: > > > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > J?y???0??????????n??? > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > J?????y???i?? ???0?????k??*Z????????b??^????????mn?r??m??m?f > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------ > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Nov 28 10:51:04 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Nov 28 11:51:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware /icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite In-Reply-To: <00a601c831d7$e30c1a50$6501a8c0@okapi> References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP><001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder><002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <00a601c831d7$e30c1a50$6501a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <007401c831ef$a2e63600$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Hi Gary, > from it. Scary doctor, though. Just stubs for fingers. > Turns out he trained under Curie as a VERY young man and lost > all his fingers in the process. Was he a surgeon before he turned to radiotherapy? Or a butcher? How on earth does one lose fingertips merely by touching radioisotopes (tongue-in-cheek here guys, no low blows intended ;-))) If he was born around 1900 to 1915 he could have known Marie Curie who died in 1934. I too had a wrath removed by irradiation in the early sixties. If I had known it would lead to 5 bypasses... (OK, by now you should slightly suspect that I'm just kidding) Cheers Axel From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Nov 28 12:16:38 2007 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Nov 28 12:16:50 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware/icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite In-Reply-To: <007401c831ef$a2e63600$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP><001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder><002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP><00a601c831d7$e30c1a50$6501a8c0@okapi> <007401c831ef$a2e63600$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <00e901c831fb$96ce1660$6501a8c0@okapi> Beats me. I was probably 5 or 6, and that was a half-century ago. My how time flies when you're having fun. Any of my relatives that I could have asked have been recycled, too. GcB > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of > Axel Emmermann > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:51 PM > To: gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com; 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A > mailing list for rock and gem collectors' > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta > Ware/icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > > Hi Gary, > > Was he a surgeon before he turned to radiotherapy?... > > Cheers > > Axel From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Nov 28 14:28:09 2007 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Wed Nov 28 14:26:12 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sleeping in bad places References: <200711280202.lAS22C98023703@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <016801c8320d$f51e5ab0$6901a8c0@rock3> Usually the worst accommodations I encountered while chasing mineral specimens were at the mines in Peru and Bolivia. Most of the specimen producing mines in those countries are located high up in the Andes. Elevations range from 12 to 16 thousand feet with a few higher. At these elevations there vegetation is sparse and at most of the mines you have to look carefully to find any at all. It would usually take me two or three days at those altitudes to be able to sleep comfortably at night. It would help if you could first spend a day or so at 8 or 9 thousand before going on up. Some of the accommodations at the mines were rather primitive. On trip to Huanzala, a mine in Peru that is famous for its production of pyrite specimens, I spent a couple of nights in a little shack like hotel just outside the mining camp where the rent was a dollar or two a night and it only cost that much because we were driving our own vehicle and were therefore automatically rated as millionaires. The floor of our shack was dirt with a corrugated iron roof. There were holes in the roof because the corrugated covering had been used on at least one previous building and the nail holes had never been fixed and you could see stars through them at night. The wind blew in rather freely and empty chicken coops were stored under our beds. The mattress was just ropes attached to the tree limb poles that made up the frame of the bed. The bathroom was a little stream of water that had been channeled into the back yard of the hotel from a local creek. >From the wash area the stream was channeled underneath the toilet stall. The toilet was a cut down 30 gallon carbide can that had part of its top knocked out with a chizel. That was bad enough, but as we drove into the camp we encountered a truckload of runners (specimen dealers from lima on their way out of the camp. They had just about cleaned out the camp of specimens. We got about enough to pay for our gas and the rental on the vehicle. Rock Rock Currier rockcurrier@CS.com Jewel Tunnel Imports 13100 Spring St. Baldwin Park, CA 91706 626-814-2257 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 18:02 Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 42, Issue 31 Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com You can reach the person managing the list at rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." [Rockhounds-Digest] Today's Topics: 1. RE: Vehicles (Margaret Malm) 2. RE: Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite (Axel Emmermann) 3. Re: Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) (Alan Silverstein) 4. Re: Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite (J Bryan Kramer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:24:34 -0700 From: "Margaret Malm" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Vehicles To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Message-ID: <002101c8312b$24ed8600$0200a8c0@kadok> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="US-ASCII" <:-}}!! Around this neck of the woods, we call that a "winch", Glenn <;-)))) Margaret >If things go as planned, I'll add a wench on the front and carry a small >grappling style anchor to pull thru spots I'll likely never go. (No Axel, >Jeanette rides shotgun and navigates with the GPS and laptop.) Glenn ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:39:16 +0100 From: "Axel Emmermann" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Message-ID: <002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-2" Hi Erich, Maria Salomee Sk?odowska, AKA Madame Curie, died at age 66 of leukemia. She lived in an exiting epoque in which radioactivity was discovered. In her time it was fashionable to decorate a garden party with blue radioluminescent vials containing radiumnitrate. She also wore a neclace with a minut vial of the stuff... After a few weeks her bosom must have looked like Kentucky fried chicken. Of course, If you don't know you don't know! Showing cleavage was not really fashionable around the turn of the 19th century so it would have been her "hidden problem". Dose may be a killing factor but prolongued exposure is also dangerous. Some Russian chrysoberyl is moderately radioactive and although the crystals do not appear to be very metamict there is measurable radiation coming from those specimens. The gem, when used in pendants, is know to cause cancer of the thyroid gland an throat. It appears that the red and orange fiestaware is colored by uranium too (it came as waste from the enrichment plants). Vaseline glass is clored by UO2 (uranyl). The orange die is probably also another oxide than the divalent yellow-green stuff.... Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Erich Kern > Verzonden: dinsdag 27 november 2007 17:33 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / > ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > > > Hi All, > > The orange glaze on Fiesta Ware is radioactive. An antique > dealer told me about the radiologic tech who bought a large > orange Fiesta Ware platter to demonstrate to his classes that > not everything that sets off a Geiger counter is dangerous. > He has his wife make a big batch of chocolate chip cookies > which he serves to his class on the orange platter, then > brings out the Geiger counter on its most sensitive scale to > let the class hear the counter chirp away. As toxicologist > Dr. Bruce Ames says, "the dose makes the poison". I bought a > small orange Fiesta Ware bowl from this antique dealer to use > for demonstrations. The bowl doesn't fluoresce with LW U/V. > > The "vaseline glass" made by Fenton fluoresces brightly in LW > U/V and gives a response on the most sensitive scale of my > Geiger counter, but not quite as much as with the orange > glazed bowl. The Fenton glass bowl I have was made in the > 1930's, and they're still in business, but don't know if > their current production contains any radioactive or > fluorescent material given the hysteria of some people about > "radioactive". > > Cheers, > Erich > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Axel Emmermann > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:40 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice spikes/Kryptonite > > > > > > BTW Axel, the marbles are actually made of the glass you > describe. Was > > not that actually radioactive in the early days when it was used as > > attractive tableware? Seems I remember another discussion of this > > yellow-green glass and carnival glass on this list. And > they are, at > > least by poetic license, "real" Kryptonite. > > Hi Glenn, > > Uranium oxide is a VERY powerful colorant in glass. Probably > due to the fluorescence even in normal daylight. Since there > is only very little of the oxide used and it 's not > "enriched", the radioactivity of the glass may be very low. > > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:47:13 -0700 (MST) From: Alan Silverstein Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <20071127194713.DEBA71CC35@io.frii.com> > ...weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest > place that members have camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during > a rockhound trip. Well I've slept on mountaintops 23 times, mostly 13K-14K' elevation in Colorado, but those were "hiking trips," not mainly rockhounding trips. My oddest overnight during primary rockhounding must have been... In my car, reclined in the driver's seat; along with maybe 8 other people in 4-5 other cars, all huddled up in rain and wind so long and intense that even a tent was a bad idea; up high on the Delaney Rim, just south of I80 in Wyoming south of Wamsutter, on the south edge of the Red Desert / Great Divide Basin (of the continental divide). The cars all had condensation running down the insides by morning; 110% humidity. But cold and wet wasn't the worst of it. The mud road had turned into a virtual tarpit. We very slowly and carefully made our way west several miles to the Tipton switchbacks and down several more miles to the interstate. Vehicle undersides and wheelwells were terminally caked with goo. It took me $6, I think, to get the worst of it off at a manual carwash in Rawlins. Cheers, Alan Silverstein ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:32:58 -0500 From: "J Bryan Kramer" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2 Well there is plenty of evidence that radiation effects, like many other environmental 'threats' has been greatly exaggerated. Take a look at this article in Der Spiegel I have seen reports from more than a decade ago that debunk a lot of the claims of radiation injuries. Indeed some studies show that people exposed to moderately high levels of radiation have longer life expectancies not reduced. The Curies may well have ingested radium salts which have a well documented health effect. BK On Nov 27, 2007 1:39 PM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Erich, > > Maria Salomee Sk?odowska, AKA Madame Curie, died at age 66 of leukemia. > She > lived in an exiting epoque in which radioactivity was discovered. > In her time it was fashionable to decorate a garden party with blue > radioluminescent vials containing radiumnitrate. She also wore a neclace > with a minut vial of the stuff... After a few weeks her bosom must have > looked like Kentucky fried chicken. Of course, If you don't know you don't > know! Showing cleavage was not really fashionable around the turn of the > 19th century so it would have been her "hidden problem". > > Dose may be a killing factor but prolongued exposure is also dangerous. > Some > Russian chrysoberyl is moderately radioactive and although the crystals do > not appear to be very metamict there is measurable radiation coming from > those specimens. The gem, when used in pendants, is know to cause cancer > of > the thyroid gland an throat. > > It appears that the red and orange fiestaware is colored by uranium too > (it > came as waste from the enrichment plants). Vaseline glass is clored by UO2 > (uranyl). The orange die is probably also another oxide than the divalent > yellow-green stuff.... > > Cheers > Axel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Erich Kern > > Verzonden: dinsdag 27 november 2007 17:33 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / > > ice crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > The orange glaze on Fiesta Ware is radioactive. An antique > > dealer told me about the radiologic tech who bought a large > > orange Fiesta Ware platter to demonstrate to his classes that > > not everything that sets off a Geiger counter is dangerous. > > He has his wife make a big batch of chocolate chip cookies > > which he serves to his class on the orange platter, then > > brings out the Geiger counter on its most sensitive scale to > > let the class hear the counter chirp away. As toxicologist > > Dr. Bruce Ames says, "the dose makes the poison". I bought a > > small orange Fiesta Ware bowl from this antique dealer to use > > for demonstrations. The bowl doesn't fluoresce with LW U/V. > > > > The "vaseline glass" made by Fenton fluoresces brightly in LW > > U/V and gives a response on the most sensitive scale of my > > Geiger counter, but not quite as much as with the orange > > glazed bowl. The Fenton glass bowl I have was made in the > > 1930's, and they're still in business, but don't know if > > their current production contains any radioactive or > > fluorescent material given the hysteria of some people about > > "radioactive". > > > > Cheers, > > Erich > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Axel Emmermann > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors' > > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:40 AM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice spikes/Kryptonite > > > > > > > > > > BTW Axel, the marbles are actually made of the glass you > > describe. Was > > > not that actually radioactive in the early days when it was used as > > > attractive tableware? Seems I remember another discussion of this > > > yellow-green glass and carnival glass on this list. And > > they are, at > > > least by poetic license, "real" Kryptonite. > > > > Hi Glenn, > > > > Uranium oxide is a VERY powerful colorant in glass. Probably > > due to the fluorescence even in normal daylight. Since there > > is only very little of the oxide used and it 's not > > "enriched", the radioactivity of the glass may be very low. > > > > Axel > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner ------------------------------ -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 42, Issue 31 ****************************************** From Jacqueline at Kiffe.com Wed Nov 28 14:28:21 2007 From: Jacqueline at Kiffe.com (Jacqueline Kiffe) Date: Wed Nov 28 14:28:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware/icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite In-Reply-To: <006201c831de$241f4930$57fcf604@TheBlackAdder> References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP><001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder><002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP><000d01c831ab$0d61eff0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <006201c831de$241f4930$57fcf604@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <000801c8320d$fbbb2a10$6401a8c0@D3MMZZ71> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Erich Kern Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:46 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware/icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite Chernobyl is often used as an example of the dangers of nuclear power generation, but few realise the Chernobyl reactors did not have containment domes around them as all US reactors do. Which by the way would not be breached by an airliner flying directly into one of them according to a physics professor friend. He know how they're built. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- At last, something I am not a complete idiot on! I did a study on exactly that back a bit before the turn of the millennium. The risk of significant release of stored radwaste from aircraft impact was far less than the risk of trucking it across country to Yucca Mountain (which was conveniently set to zero by TPTB. Indeed, I argued (unsuccessfully) that the danger of hazmat release due to aircraft impact into non-reinforced structures was significantly greater. (None of this was allowed in the final report.) The government was using a ludicrously incorrect risk calculation. It was dividing the risk of release by the number of people within the designated radius to get a "per-person" risk instead of multiplying to get the number of people at risk. When the team leader responded in official testimony on the Hill that they ought to store it all in downtown Manhattan by their logic, there was dead silence, and the esteemed elected gentlepersons pretended not to hear. Rationality seems to play no part on either side in the debate. Let us just say that I am delighted not to work for any government organization any more. There is a bright side to nearly dying and living with disability after all. I make a living with my dad's old passion now, something we once shared at a more innocent time. The burden of looking forward eagerly to every day's work is just something I must endure. Jacqueline From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 28 17:21:41 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 28 17:18:55 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gold mine info,...Anyone? References: Message-ID: <474E1378.4042@Tomaszewski.net> Kevin, The list does not allow attachments. Can you post your pictures somewhere and give us a link? Do a Google search on 'geology of cripple creek co'. Mindat lists 141 minerals (120 valid/accepted) from the cripple creek district. Knowing the mineral population makes it easier to identify any unknowns you may find. You might want to check out criple-creek.org for local resources. As I remember, they have a historical society that might help you find the name of your mine and trace its ownership. I also think there is a rock club in the area that should have some experts. Kreigh Paintricks@aol.com wrote: > > Hi there, > I live here in Cripple creek and I luckily found a house that has an old > gold mine in the back yard. the shaft is about 30 feet deep and has a lot of > tailing around that I have been picking through and have found interesting > types of rock associated within it. I'm adding some pictures here for > reference and was wondering if anyone has had experience here and areas like this and > maybe what I have found. I have a good idea of what some of this rock is > but maybe someone here could clarify it better than I can. > The first one is in a granite that has a druzy type quartz that is an iron > oxide color and resembles a geode. > The second is a sand stone with an unusual ring pattern. How is this > associated with gold? The third is a fluorite intermixed with what looks like > black hematite coating. It's a very dense material. > Another I have I don't have the picture of to show but it is a yellow > stained iron stained ryolite type that resembles sandstone and smells strongly of > sulpher. Sulpher dioxide after it reaches the outside air from inside the > mine? There is a variety of crystal structures, hematite that looks like a > black chrome that is a cubic crystal structure with the fluorite that is a > rusty color to brown and hardly translucent. The last is a gray ryolite type > that has tiny pinhole size sparkly crystals, either silver or gold color but > hard to tell because of the lighting. It resembles pyrite but maybe > calaverite. Does anyone know which of these , if any, are the closest to the gold > vein? There is not much massive quartz in this rock but the tailings oxidize > that tell tale yellow color to white pouring out of the hillside. Makes me > wonder why dig in that spot. There are a lot of "glory holes" here and it's > confusing what the old timers were looking at. Seems simple enough, Quarts > vein, dig here. That's not always the case. > Thanks in advance and I would love to hear stories of anyone who may have > collected here around the cripple creek area and anywhere in Colorado. > Kevin > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/mixed > multipart/related > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > image/jpeg > image/jpeg > image/jpeg > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kadok at infowest.com Wed Nov 28 18:32:58 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Nov 28 18:33:02 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) In-Reply-To: <009201c831eb$940aa3e0$93b45545@JOHN> References: <009201c831eb$940aa3e0$93b45545@JOHN> Message-ID: <005001c83230$27eece80$0200a8c0@kadok> The Aussies do have some very ingenious car tents. I have friends who have a "rig" that, when traveling, is just a small trailer, about 6 ft x 6 (or maybe 8) feet x about a foot or so deep. Trails very nicely. Stop and the top folds back and down making a sort of vestibule that extends the sleeping/living area, a top goes up over all of it and another one also extends out to the side as a fly. A table pulls out from the trailer, also, under the fly. All goes up /down in just a few minutes. Margaret Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) Pete, If you search for Australian car tents you'll eventually find your way to very ingeneous rooftop tents. John ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 7:18 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) > > I can't resist responding to this line of thought... > > In a message dated 11/27/2007 12:47:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, > ajs@frii.com writes: > >> ...weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest >> place that members have camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during >> a rockhound trip. > > > > About three years ago, heading home after the Tucson Show, I left Tucson > after dark Sunday evening and planned to camp out in the desert; I knew of > a > good place to get off I-10 onto some dirt roads near the AZ-NM border > (Steins > Pass), where I'd stopped on my way out and gone for a little hike--found > some > neat volcanic rocks there, though no minerals of note. So I pulled off; > since > I knew where I wanted to go it was easy even in the dark; and parked > about a > mile from the interstate. Well, because it was (a) pitch dark, (b) > ground > all rocks & cactus, and (c) it had been a rainy last few days so all was > quite > damp, and as I've mentioned there isn't quite room enough to sleep in the > back of my Cherokee especially when it's packed full of stuff, I just > tossed my > air matress & sleeping bag up on the roof, carefully climbed up there (so > as > not to dent the sheet metal with a knee or a foot), and slept very > comfortably on the roof--first time, then or since, that I've ever done > that. My Jeep > has a little roof rack, so the railing provided reasonable assurance that > I > wouldn't roll off. In the morning I was treated to about the most > magnicent > sunrise I'd ever seen; clouds and colors kept changing as the sun moved > up > toward the various hanging clouds and fog banks down low in the valleys > to the > south, and I took "gazilions" of pictures with my digital camera. > > Pete Modreski, Denver CO > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Nov 28 18:52:12 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Nov 28 18:49:16 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) References: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com><008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> <6AF14BE9-AD8A-4E5E-8357-48D661EE7CFC@mc.net> <005e01c8309f$71310370$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <474E28A3.48EE@Tomaszewski.net> John, Are you rested yet? Sounds interesting. Kreigh John Siebel wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Junkroski" > >We have slept in 35 cent a night "hotels" in Peru ( we couldn't camp > >because of the insurgent attacks ),... > > While those of us who are currently experiencing winter (and long to be > whacking rocks) are yearning for that perfect vehicle, I thought it might be > an interesting thread to discuss the weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), > most dangerous or coolest place that members have camped, boarded or > otherwise racked out during a rockhound trip. I've got some input (Yucatan > and a funky little place in Butte, MT come to mind) but I'm too damned tired > from splitting firewood to elaborate right now. > > John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Nov 28 18:47:59 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Nov 28 18:54:43 2007 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles)] Message-ID: <474E285E.1010809@arczip.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:04:14 -0800 From: Charles Baran To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors References: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com><008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> <6AF14BE9-AD8A-4E5E-8357-48D661EE7CFC@mc.net> <005e01c8309f$71310370$0200a8c0@Notebook> Well, our trip last summer to Big Pine Ca, we stayed at a nice place in Beatty Nv. Nothing to write about except that evening Beatty was surrounded on 3 1/2 sides by a brush fire. We were told to keep things packed in case we had to be evacuated. We were saved by firefighters from Area 51. Another time on a rock hunting trip about 35 years ago, we had stopped for the night at Stovepipe Wells Death Valley. In August! Well, I had just dozed off when Kathy woke me up: "We have to leave! I don't know why, but we just do." This was around 11:00pm. Well, we packed up, got in the car and started out across Death Valley. We got lost. I stopped the car to look at a map. We were facing East toward Nevada (area 51). All of a sudden a turquoise colored object about the size of an old silver dollar "appeared" about halfway up our windshield. It just hovered for about 3 minutes. Then it split into two pieces, same size, and one went North while the other went South. Not too fast, about the speed of a commercial jet. We watched until both pieces disappeared below the horizon...at the same time. True story, I swear to it. Chuck Baran John Siebel wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Junkroski" > >> We have slept in 35 cent a night "hotels" in Peru ( we couldn't camp >> because of the insurgent attacks ),... > > > While those of us who are currently experiencing winter (and long to > be whacking rocks) are yearning for that perfect vehicle, I thought it > might be an interesting thread to discuss the weirdest, most primitive > (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest place that members have > camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during a rockhound trip. I've > got some input (Yucatan and a funky little place in Butte, MT come to > mind) but I'm too damned tired from splitting firewood to elaborate > right now. > > John > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Wed Nov 28 19:26:47 2007 From: gene at fossilnut.com (gene@fossilnut.com) Date: Wed Nov 28 19:26:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware /icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP><001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder><002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <00a601c831d7$e30c1a50$6501a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <01a701c83237$ae4b4e20$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> A fair number of children back in the 50's were treated with radiation for anything from a cancer to acne. Those treated near the head have a high incidence of thyroid cancer. Other cancers have resulted from childhood radiation treatment, including leukemia and probably multiple myeloma. But let's not lose sight of the original discussion, glass and pottery made with uranium salts. The pottery is primariy an alpha and beta emitter with very little or no gamma. Thus as long as they stay external to you and you don't make a habit of sleeping on them, they present little risk. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Brown" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:01 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware /icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > When I was a kid, probably back in the mid 50's, I had a small melanoma > removed from my face by a doctor in New York City using radium. I can > remember the feel of the metal tube against my cheek, and the click of the > lead shutter that exposed the radium. I still have small "dent" on my > cheek > from it. Scary doctor, though. Just stubs for fingers. Turns out he > trained under Curie as a VERY young man and lost all his fingers in the > process. > > GcB > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of >> Axel Emmermann >> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:39 PM >> To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors' >> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / >> icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite >> >> Hi Erich, >> >> Maria Salomee Sk?odowska, AKA Madame Curie, died at age 66 of >> leukemia. She lived in an exiting epoque in which >> radioactivity was discovered. >> In her time it was fashionable to decorate a garden party ... > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Wed Nov 28 19:45:02 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Wed Nov 28 19:46:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Kryptonite marbles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe it was my eyes burnt by the extreme brightness of the fluorescence that still saw a fading glow from the glass marbles after I turn off the UV. So I did the experiment again in a really dark room and indeed there is no glow after the UV is turned off, neither LW nor SW. Turkey tastes better than crow, but I just cleaned my plate. Glenn > From: Pmodreski@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:38:16 -0500> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Kryptonite marbles> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > I also meant to comment about those marbles, Glenn (I believe it was you who > posted that), when you said that they were phosphorescent. All uranium > minerals, including the uranium-bearing glass, are NOT phosphorescent, just > fluorescent--that's one of the distinguishing characteristics of all > uranium-activated minerals (thereby, you can always distinguish green-fluorescent coatings > of uranyl minerals or uranyl-containing opal or chalcedony, from fluorescent > willemite that also occurs in the oxidized zone of some mines). And my > uranium-bearing yellow-green glass is definitely not phosphorescent.> > So if your marbles really are phosphorescent too... well, perhaps they have > some other luminescent "ingredient" in them, besidres or instead of, uranium.> > (OK, so then they are even more "special"!)> > Pete> > _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista? + Windows Live?. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Nov 28 20:16:09 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Nov 28 20:16:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Kryptonite marbles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <474E3D09.1020806@verizon.net> Glenn Wimpee wrote: > Maybe it was my eyes burnt by the extreme brightness of the fluorescence that still saw a fading glow from the glass marbles after I turn off the UV. > > So I did the experiment again in a really dark room and indeed there is no glow after the UV is turned off, neither LW nor SW. > > Turkey tastes better than crow, but I just cleaned my plate. Oh don't be so hard on yourself--it can be very difficult to observe short-term phosphorescence and this is best accomplished by an instrument called a fluorescence spectrophotometer. Despite things that I've heard, I'm not sure how long the lamp continues to emit significant UV after it is switched off; and when you move either the light or the object away quickly, there is still enough UV emitted at an angle from the light that one might think the object has a brief phosphorescence. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it is just that lateral angular emission of UV from the light still exciting the object. I have seen people sit there arguing with each other for quite a while, whipping a light back and forth and trying other ways to create an instant cessation of the light while they try to determine if the specimen is phosphorescent or not. All the best, Don From donyungh at msn.com Wed Nov 28 20:47:27 2007 From: donyungh at msn.com (Donald Hixson) Date: Wed Nov 28 20:47:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Romanechite? Message-ID: About three years ago I came across a rock near Yuma AZ with a metallic like growth in it. Some of this material also was agatized. I put it in my 14 inch rock saw and it labored through a 3x3 inch cut. The next cut the saw made it through about half way and stopped cutting. I examined the blade and all of the diamond was completely removed from the cutting edge. I sharpened the blade with several cuts through a grind stone and tried it again. The second attempt also failed. In forty years of cutting rocks I had never had this happen. I found if the the rock had enough agate mixed in, it would cut and polish into a great looking cab. Mostly black with fancy metallic inclusions that my wife claimed as hers. I have showed this to many people with blank looks on there faces also with many suggestions and I am not sure any of them were right. A friend had them analyzed with these results: Major: silica, manganese oxide and manganese silicate. Accessory: barite (baryum sulfate) and calcium-manganese-lead-copper oxide. Hope someone has some ideas. Don --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Paintricks at aol.com Wed Nov 28 21:06:34 2007 From: Paintricks at aol.com (Paintricks@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 28 21:08:03 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Gold mine info,...Anyone? Message-ID: Thanks Kreig, Wasn't aware of the pic attachments not making it through. I'll try to get them on the site you gave me and look into the places here in town also. Thanks, Kevin **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Wed Nov 28 21:17:47 2007 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Nov 28 21:17:54 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Romanechite? Message-ID: Don, Maybe understanding this takes someone very experienced in how saws cut; I personally have always been puzzled of reports of diamonds saws having an unusually tough time cutting through certain kinds of rocks--I don't understand why that happens, perhaps others do. As to the mineralogy, it sounds like you are on the right track; it could be any mixture of manganese oxides (romanechite, coronadite, etc.) and manganese silicates. Is there any chance that your rock is not a natural rock, but something that came from a smelter, and that it is actually masses of some metal in it, that the saw can't get through? Pete **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Nov 28 21:18:37 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Nov 28 21:18:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Romanechite? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <474E4BAD.8080403@verizon.net> Donald Hixson wrote: > About three years ago I came across a rock near Yuma AZ with a metallic like growth in it. Some of this material also was agatized. I put it in my 14 inch rock saw and it labored through a 3x3 inch cut. The next cut the saw made it through about half way and stopped cutting. I examined the blade and all of the diamond was completely removed from the cutting edge. I sharpened the blade with several cuts through a grind stone and tried it again. The second attempt also failed. In forty years of cutting rocks I had never had this happen. I found if the the rock had enough agate mixed in, it would cut and polish into a great looking cab. Mostly black with fancy metallic inclusions that my wife claimed as hers. > I have showed this to many people with blank looks on there faces also with many suggestions and I am not sure any of them were right. A friend had them analyzed with these results: > Major: silica, manganese oxide and manganese silicate. > Accessory: barite (baryum sulfate) and calcium-manganese-lead-copper oxide. > Hope someone has some ideas. Hi, Without knowing how it was analyzed and without having specific numbers, it is difficult to assign mineral IDs to this mixture with any confidence. However, you have all the elements needed to make romanechite, as well as some other species. As far as what is happening with your saw, it is also likely that you are grinding up a manganese oxide muck that is filling in the tiny gaps in your blade, much like what happens when you sand soft plastic and the plastic loads your sandpaper. Diamond blades grind, not cut, and it is possible that the saw blade was so loaded and the material so soft that you couldn't get any friction. Now I have no great experience, but I have cut a lot of rocks in the last 2 years with my little 5 inch trim saw, and I've noticed that hard, coherent rocks actually cut much better than soft, weathered ones. I've had to run a dressing stick over my blades a few times when they were loaded. Best, Don From nospam at orerockon.com Wed Nov 28 22:20:10 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Wed Nov 28 22:20:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Romanechite? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200711290620.lAT6KUlW003624@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Sounds like "psilomelane", which we have discussed in the very recent past (last week?). It kills blades because the manganese oxide muck pulls the steel over the diamond segments. Cheap diamond plated or not-so-cheap sintered rim blades actually cut this material (and many other soft materials like calcite or those with a heavy concentration of impurities) better than segmented rim blades. Crystalite makes a quality continuous sintered rim blade that will work. At 08:47 PM 11/28/2007, you wrote: >About three years ago I came across a rock near Yuma AZ with a >metallic like growth in it. Some of this material also was agatized. >I put it in my 14 inch rock saw and it labored through a 3x3 inch >cut. The next cut the saw made it through about half way and stopped >cutting. I examined the blade and all of the diamond was completely >removed from the cutting edge. I sharpened the blade with several >cuts through a grind stone and tried it again. The second attempt >also failed. In forty years of cutting rocks I had never had this >happen. I found if the the rock had enough agate mixed in, it would >cut and polish into a great looking cab. Mostly black with fancy >metallic inclusions that my wife claimed as hers. >I have showed this to many people with blank looks on there faces >also with many suggestions and I am not sure any of them were right. >A friend had them analyzed with these results: >Major: silica, manganese oxide and manganese silicate. >Accessory: barite (baryum sulfate) and calcium-manganese-lead-copper oxide. >Hope someone has some ideas. >Don Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Nov 28 23:17:00 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Nov 28 23:24:38 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Romanechite? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <474E676C.7040804@arczip.com> The folks on the Mother Ship left it? Chuck Baran Donald Hixson wrote: >About three years ago I came across a rock near Yuma AZ with a metallic like growth in it. Some of this material also was agatized. I put it in my 14 inch rock saw and it labored through a 3x3 inch cut. The next cut the saw made it through about half way and stopped cutting. I examined the blade and all of the diamond was completely removed from the cutting edge. I sharpened the blade with several cuts through a grind stone and tried it again. The second attempt also failed. In forty years of cutting rocks I had never had this happen. I found if the the rock had enough agate mixed in, it would cut and polish into a great looking cab. Mostly black with fancy metallic inclusions that my wife claimed as hers. >I have showed this to many people with blank looks on there faces also with many suggestions and I am not sure any of them were right. A friend had them analyzed with these results: >Major: silica, manganese oxide and manganese silicate. >Accessory: barite (baryum sulfate) and calcium-manganese-lead-copper oxide. >Hope someone has some ideas. >Don > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- > > From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Thu Nov 29 00:00:35 2007 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Thu Nov 29 00:01:05 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware /icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP><001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder><002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP><000d01c831ab$0d61eff0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <004a01c8325d$f9fe0260$685fe842@Titans> > internal radiation from alpha emitters is injurious. But small to moderate > whole body doses of radiation do not seem to be the problem that some > people > like to think that they are. > > BK Mr., Kramer Sir, in 1949 the popular thing in North East Washington State was to prospect for uranium for the government, we were located 29 miles North of Spokane....at age 11, I had borrowed a new fangled thing called a Geiger counter that would find uranium for me, I was taught how to us it by the owner a local prospector farmer and off I went, while digging a sewer line by hand shovel, I decided to test the soil I was in, bingo off the counter went, as I got out of the ditch I again tested the area ground, everywhere I went the counter reacted, rechecking again and again I finally assumed the counter did not work....actually what was occurring..... I was picking up a radioactive cloud of contamination and was the only known person besides the government people in the area picking up the planed release of radioactive materials from Hanford, which was not a great amount ???? That night I was not able to sleep well as I was suffering nausea along with my mother, I suffered with nausea, lost weight and one sickness after another for months and months, my mother stopped combing her hair because she was becoming bald, after a year as I recall her hair started filling back in.....little did we know we were experiencing nuclear radiation fall out. As one of the Pacific Northwest " Down Winder's " I assume you have very little to none of the information of the planned release and the actual release of " Just a little radiation " in 1949 by the Hanford works in Washington State, nor the 250,000 deaths since that time attributed to that and other accidental ( They say ) releases. I as one of those with small dose's may not agree with you. Some downwinder families but a mere 50 to 100 miles from Hanford were totally wiped out in just a few years from all sorts of malady's.. but mostly cancer caused. If you have not made a trip to the International Peace Shrine in Hiroshima Japan please do.....talk to the Japanese people that are still dying from " Just a small amount " of that radiation outfall miles and miles away from the bomb center, I have, and like us downwinders, they too are getting cut away a piece at a time.....me....I had another six cancerous lesions removed but a week ago by the Government. In the mean time.....I have lost most of my friends and family due to cancers, my history is disappearing and gaining speed as I see the few left sick and dying slow deaths. In closing, I would hope you would rethink your position on just a little radiation and the results as shooting to low, it may upset some that " Been there and did that ". Wayne P.S. I enjoy your posts and have learned a lot, keep it up. > > > On Nov 28, 2007 5:40 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > >> Hi Brian, >> >> If you have been following the news about Alexander Litvinenko, it >> becomes >> painfully obvious that a few micrograms of polonium will kill a human. >> There's also some "normal toxicity" involved but that's trivial in >> comparison with the radiological damage that the radio-isotope inflicts. >> There's also the story of depleted uranium which seems to make people >> sick. >> There are also stories about Ukrainian fire fighters who heroically >> fought >> the Tsjernobyl runaway reactor. Some of them officially received lethal >> doses of radiation and yet, after 20 years, some of those are still >> alive. >> If you can call it that. I recently saw a documentary about it which >> included some interviews with these victims. They are kept alive with >> medication, surgery, chemo... Most of them have been diagnosed with >> different cancers many times. Since they are closely followed by medical >> science they are not allowed to die. They have become something of a >> prestige project to prove to the world that even the worst case scenario >> of >> nuclear energy is not so bad as we think... >> See what happened to some the scientists that worked on the Manhattan >> Project. Leukemia catches up with you eventually, even decades later... >> >> For those who want a little more insight of the mechanics that make (for >> example) Polonium 210 such a lethal substance: >> http://www.mjwcorp.com/rad_dose_assessments_poloniumarticle.php >> >> I have a friend, a colleague at my club who thought, just like you, that >> a >> little radiation couldn't hurt no one. He collected uranium minerals. The >> guy started getting weaker and sick and anemic. His blood count was off >> the >> scale. Medical science managed to restore him to reasonable health >> although >> he still suffers from relapses. >> So yes, this proves your point that radiation effects are exaggerated if >> you >> only count the deaths and discard the suffering. >> >> Ultimately this discussion is futile because the outcome is determined >> purely by Darwinistic reasoning. >> There are those who are confident that radioactivity is not so bad and >> those >> who think it is. >> Future scientists will call it "survival of the smartest", whoever that >> may >> be >> >> Cheers >> >> Axel >> >> >> >> > Well there is plenty of evidence that radiation effects, like >> > many other environmental 'threats' has been greatly >> > exaggerated. Take a look at this article in Der Spiegel >> > >> > >> > >> > I have seen reports from more than a decade ago that debunk a >> > lot of the claims of radiation injuries. Indeed some studies >> > show that people exposed to moderately high levels of >> > radiation have longer life expectancies not reduced. >> > >> > The Curies may well have ingested radium salts which have a >> > well documented health effect. >> > >> > BK >> > >> > >> > On Nov 27, 2007 1:39 PM, Axel Emmermann >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Hi Erich, >> > > >> > > Maria Salomee Sk?odowska, AKA Madame Curie, died at age 66 >> > of leukemia. >> > > She >> > > lived in an exiting epoque in which radioactivity was discovered. >> > > In her time it was fashionable to decorate a garden party with blue >> > > radioluminescent vials containing radiumnitrate. She also wore a >> > > neclace with a minut vial of the stuff... After a few weeks >> > her bosom >> > > must have looked like Kentucky fried chicken. Of course, If >> > you don't >> > > know you don't know! Showing cleavage was not really fashionable >> > > around the turn of the 19th century so it would have been >> > her "hidden problem". >> > > >> > > Dose may be a killing factor but prolongued exposure is >> > also dangerous. >> > > Some >> > > Russian chrysoberyl is moderately radioactive and although the >> > > crystals do not appear to be very metamict there is measurable >> > > radiation coming from those specimens. The gem, when used >> > in pendants, >> > > is know to cause cancer of the thyroid gland an throat. >> > > >> > > It appears that the red and orange fiestaware is colored by uranium >> > > too (it came as waste from the enrichment plants). Vaseline >> > glass is >> > > clored by UO2 (uranyl). The orange die is probably also >> > another oxide >> > > than the divalent yellow-green stuff.... >> > > >> > > Cheers >> > > Axel >> > > >> > > >> > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Erich Kern >> > > > Verzonden: dinsdag 27 november 2007 17:33 >> > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> > > > collectors >> > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware / ice >> > > > crystals/icespikes/Kryptonite >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Hi All, >> > > > >> > > > The orange glaze on Fiesta Ware is radioactive. An antique dealer >> > > > told me about the radiologic tech who bought a large >> > orange Fiesta >> > > > Ware platter to demonstrate to his classes that not >> > everything that >> > > > sets off a Geiger counter is dangerous. >> > > > He has his wife make a big batch of chocolate chip >> > cookies which he >> > > > serves to his class on the orange platter, then brings out the >> > > > Geiger counter on its most sensitive scale to let the >> > class hear the >> > > > counter chirp away. As toxicologist Dr. Bruce Ames says, >> > "the dose >> > > > makes the poison". I bought a small orange Fiesta Ware bowl from >> > > > this antique dealer to use for demonstrations. The bowl doesn't >> > > > fluoresce with LW U/V. >> > > > >> > > > The "vaseline glass" made by Fenton fluoresces brightly in LW U/V >> > > > and gives a response on the most sensitive scale of my Geiger >> > > > counter, but not quite as much as with the orange glazed >> > bowl. The >> > > > Fenton glass bowl I have was made in the 1930's, and >> > they're still >> > > > in business, but don't know if their current production >> > contains any >> > > > radioactive or fluorescent material given the hysteria of some >> > > > people about "radioactive". >> > > > >> > > > Cheers, >> > > > Erich >> > > > >> > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> > > > From: Axel Emmermann >> > > > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> > > > collectors' >> > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 1:40 AM >> > > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: ice crystals/ice spikes/Kryptonite >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > BTW Axel, the marbles are actually made of the glass you >> > > > describe. Was >> > > > > not that actually radioactive in the early days when it >> > was used >> > > > > as attractive tableware? Seems I remember another discussion of >> > > > > this yellow-green glass and carnival glass on this list. And >> > > > they are, at >> > > > > least by poetic license, "real" Kryptonite. >> > > > >> > > > Hi Glenn, >> > > > >> > > > Uranium oxide is a VERY powerful colorant in glass. >> > Probably due to >> > > > the fluorescence even in normal daylight. Since there is >> > only very >> > > > little of the oxide used and it 's not "enriched", the >> > radioactivity >> > > > of the glass may be very low. >> > > > >> > > > Axel >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > > > Subscription Services: >> > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> > > > multipart/alternative >> > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) >> > > > text/html >> > > > --- >> > > > -- >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > > > Subscription Services: >> > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> > > Subscription Services: >> > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > J Bryan Kramer >> > North Florida, USA >> > photos at: >> > http://pbase.com/photoburner >> > J?y???0??????????n??? >> > >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > J?????y???i?? ???0?????k??*Z????????b??^????????mn?r??m??m?f -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From info at agatesfromargentina.com Thu Nov 29 01:32:12 2007 From: info at agatesfromargentina.com (Agates from Argentina) Date: Thu Nov 29 01:32:21 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sleeping in bad places / Claudia & Winchester Message-ID: <001201c8326a$ba222060$f5fb7ec8@ricardocasa> Hello Friends : One of the worst places we slept in . It was shot about ten years ago, when we travelled to a Province ("Santiago del Estero") in a small town??? called "Sumampa". We had to sleep in a whore house because there were no hotels (who would want to build one here??) It was Saturday night so all the "Gauchos" were drinking and socializing with the "ladies" there. This is why we carried a rifle. It was not comfortable , as you can see. Take a look at the walls !! Cheers!! Ricardo & Claudia Birnie Argentina --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/mixed multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Nov 29 01:58:40 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Nov 29 02:58:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware/icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite In-Reply-To: <01a701c83237$ae4b4e20$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP><001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder><002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP><00a601c831d7$e30c1a50$6501a8c0@okapi> <01a701c83237$ae4b4e20$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <000a01c8326e$6b6a9e80$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Hi Gene That is correct. If you wash your hand after handling them there should be no great health risks. I wouldn't eat of those plates or store food in pots or water in jugs. Less well-informed folks (say they inherit a set or buy one at a garage sale) would not know that. After all, pottery is MEANT to be used, isn't it? At the height of the cold war there was a great waste-pile of depleted uranium that was mildly radioactive and in the way big time. There are some interesting but chilling stories on the internet about how it was put to "good use". Axel > But let's not lose sight of the original discussion, glass > and pottery made with uranium salts. The pottery is primariy > an alpha and beta emitter with very little or no gamma. Thus > as long as they stay external to you and you don't make a > habit of sleeping on them, they present little risk. > > Gene Hartstein From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Nov 29 02:10:31 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Nov 29 03:10:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Kryptonite marbles In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000b01c83270$12f68190$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Quite possible, Glenn. The after-image on your retina would have the complementary color of the bright fluorescence. So if the marbles fluoresce yellow-green, the image that you mistook for phosphorescence would have been reddish, maybe slightly towards either brown or purple. The fading of fluorescent uranyl is indeed somewhat longer than people suspect. If I recall right, the "phosphorescence" has a half-life of about 0.5 milliseconds... Not really something that can be observed with the naked eye! Thanks for sharing the observation. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Glenn Wimpee > Verzonden: donderdag 29 november 2007 4:45 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Re: Kryptonite marbles > > Maybe it was my eyes burnt by the extreme brightness of the > fluorescence that still saw a fading glow from the glass > marbles after I turn off the UV. > > So I did the experiment again in a really dark room and > indeed there is no glow after the UV is turned off, neither LW nor SW. > > Turkey tastes better than crow, but I just cleaned my plate. > > Glenn > > > From: Pmodreski@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:38:16 -0500> > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Kryptonite marbles> To: > > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > I also meant to comment about those > > marbles, Glenn (I believe it was you who > posted that), > when you said > > that they were phosphorescent. All uranium > minerals, > including the > > uranium-bearing glass, are NOT phosphorescent, just > > > fluorescent--that's one of the distinguishing > characteristics of all > > > uranium-activated minerals (thereby, you can always distinguish > > green-fluorescent coatings > of uranyl minerals or > uranyl-containing > > opal or chalcedony, from fluorescent > willemite that also > occurs in > > the oxidized zone of some mines). And my > uranium-bearing > > yellow-green glass is definitely not phosphorescent.> > So if your > > marbles really are phosphorescent too... well, perhaps they have > > > some other luminescent "ingredient" in them, besidres or > instead of, > > uranium.> > (OK, so then they are even more "special"!)> > Pete> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Put your friends on the big screen with Windows VistaR + > Windows LiveT. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid= > TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_102007 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Nov 29 02:13:20 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Nov 29 03:13:19 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Kryptonite marbles In-Reply-To: <474E3D09.1020806@verizon.net> References: <474E3D09.1020806@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000c01c83270$778e2770$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Hey Don, I used to be one of those. Don't laugh, it's true ;-))) You just brought back a memory from 40 years ago that made me smile. Thanks Don Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens DonH > Verzonden: donderdag 29 november 2007 5:16 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Kryptonite marbles > > Glenn Wimpee wrote: > > Maybe it was my eyes burnt by the extreme brightness of the > fluorescence that still saw a fading glow from the glass > marbles after I turn off the UV. > > > > So I did the experiment again in a really dark room and > indeed there is no glow after the UV is turned off, neither LW nor SW. > > > > Turkey tastes better than crow, but I just cleaned my plate. > > > Oh don't be so hard on yourself--it can be very difficult to > observe short-term phosphorescence and this is best > accomplished by an instrument called a fluorescence > spectrophotometer. Despite things that I've heard, I'm not > sure how long the lamp continues to emit significant UV after > it is switched off; and when you move either the light or the > object away quickly, there is still enough UV emitted at an > angle from the light that one might think the object has a > brief phosphorescence. > Sometimes it does, and sometimes it is just that lateral > angular emission of UV from the light still exciting the object. > > I have seen people sit there arguing with each other for > quite a while, whipping a light back and forth and trying > other ways to create an instant cessation of the light while > they try to determine if the specimen is phosphorescent or not. > > > All the best, > Don > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From everbeek at sterlinghillminingmuseum.org Thu Nov 29 06:09:47 2007 From: everbeek at sterlinghillminingmuseum.org (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Thu Nov 29 06:09:22 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sleeping in bad places In-Reply-To: <001201c8326a$ba222060$f5fb7ec8@ricardocasa> Message-ID: <001901c83291$818e9130$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> Sleeping in bad places: Well, as a field geologist I've spent a fair bit of time on the ground in out-of-the-way places, but the worst place I've ever slept by far was on the outskirts of Houston, in the 1970s, in a hotel that charged $8 per night. Well, what can you expect for $8? As I remember the carpet was one of those thin industrial things and had mysterious greasy stains. The cotton bedspread was decades old and had holes in it, and the wallpaper was peeling. The stall shower leaked and had a happy population of roaches. And best of all, as I pulled back the covers to retire for the night, there were four roaches on the bed. I slept comfortably and was more amused than upset by all of this, but I didn't go back, either. Cheers - Earl Dr. Earl R. Verbeek Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum P: 973-209-7212 F: 973-209-8505 E: shmm@ptd.net From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Thu Nov 29 07:15:32 2007 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Thu Nov 29 07:12:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations References: <009201c831eb$940aa3e0$93b45545@JOHN> <005001c83230$27eece80$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <001301c8329a$afcf7420$c00aa118@feldsparflash> The summer of 2005 found several club members, Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society of Poughkeepsie, NY, traveling to Bancroft, Ontario, Canada. It was the weekend of the annual Gemboree so getting a place to stay had been reserved ahead of time. We had two rooms behind a corner store and restaurant. There was water, AC, TV, suitable beds, misplaced sink faucet so you couldn't get a glass under it and weird wallpaper - an adventure. The weather was extremely hot for there, hovering during the daytime at 102 degrees. Late afternoon, while were at roadside collecting diopside and scapolite huge towering clouds were developing and we could hear the rumble of thunder. Being originally from Kansas I knew we were in for a big storm. We went about our way and finally stopped at a pizza restaurant for dinner. Then the storm hit, lights went out! Sideways high thrashing wind and flashing lightning accompanied our dinner. We watched their pizza sign as it swung nearly bending to the ground. Luckily our pizza had already been prepared so we ate by candlelight. Being loony rockhounds we decided to do some night collecting with our UV lamps, it certainly was dark enough. We crawled over the C & N rock pile with both sw and lw lamps.The rain had abated somewhat and thankfully we didn't attract lightning as the storm continued to move south. The collecting was good and there was the excitement of living on the edge. We arrived at our place to stay to find the electric out, which meant no AC or water. Here we were dirty, grungy, hot and sticky and the mosquitoes were as large as the loons. The power was out for two days and nights. The storm was wide spread and had generated several tornadoes. In some areas there was quite a bit of damage. The conditions didn't dissuade us and we continued to go to new collecting sites each day. Finally the power was back on and we had water at last; we reveled in the cleanup. Some might consider our time there a bit of a disaster, but I feel if you get home safely with your treasure, you have a good story to tell! Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: ; "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:32 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) > The Aussies do have some very ingenious car tents. I have friends who have a > "rig" that, when traveling, is just a small trailer, about 6 ft x 6 (or > maybe 8) feet x about a foot or so deep. Trails very nicely. Stop and the > top folds back and down making a sort of vestibule that extends the > sleeping/living area, a top goes up over all of it and another one also > extends out to the side as a fly. A table pulls out from the trailer, also, > under the fly. All goes up /down in just a few minutes. > > Margaret > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) > > Pete, > > If you search for Australian car tents you'll eventually find your way to > very ingeneous rooftop tents. > > John > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 7:18 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) > > > > > > I can't resist responding to this line of thought... > > > > In a message dated 11/27/2007 12:47:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > ajs@frii.com writes: > > > >> ...weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest > >> place that members have camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during > >> a rockhound trip. > > > > > > > > About three years ago, heading home after the Tucson Show, I left Tucson > > after dark Sunday evening and planned to camp out in the desert; I knew of > > > a > > good place to get off I-10 onto some dirt roads near the AZ-NM border > > (Steins > > Pass), where I'd stopped on my way out and gone for a little hike--found > > some > > neat volcanic rocks there, though no minerals of note. So I pulled off; > > since > > I knew where I wanted to go it was easy even in the dark; and parked > > about a > > mile from the interstate. Well, because it was (a) pitch dark, (b) > > ground > > all rocks & cactus, and (c) it had been a rainy last few days so all was > > quite > > damp, and as I've mentioned there isn't quite room enough to sleep in the > > back of my Cherokee especially when it's packed full of stuff, I just > > tossed my > > air matress & sleeping bag up on the roof, carefully climbed up there (so > > as > > not to dent the sheet metal with a knee or a foot), and slept very > > comfortably on the roof--first time, then or since, that I've ever done > > that. My Jeep > > has a little roof rack, so the railing provided reasonable assurance that > > > I > > wouldn't roll off. In the morning I was treated to about the most > > magnicent > > sunrise I'd ever seen; clouds and colors kept changing as the sun moved > > up > > toward the various hanging clouds and fog banks down low in the valleys > > to the > > south, and I took "gazilions" of pictures with my digital camera. > > > > Pete Modreski, Denver CO > > > > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's > > hottest > > products. > > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From prgilmore at hotmail.com Thu Nov 29 09:56:02 2007 From: prgilmore at hotmail.com (Paul Gilmore) Date: Thu Nov 29 09:56:04 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Peter: How about posting one or two of those pictures? Paul> From: Pmodreski@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:18:30 -0500> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles)> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > > I can't resist responding to this line of thought...> > In a message dated 11/27/2007 12:47:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, > ajs@frii.com writes:> > > ...weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest> > place that members have camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during> > a rockhound trip.> > > > About three years ago, heading home after the Tucson Show, I left Tucson > after dark Sunday evening and planned to camp out in the desert; I knew of a > good place to get off I-10 onto some dirt roads near the AZ-NM border (Steins > Pass), where I'd stopped on my way out and gone for a little hike--found some > neat volcanic rocks there, though no minerals of note. So I pulled off; since > I knew where I wanted to go it was easy even in the dark; and parked about a > mile from the interstate. Well, because it was (a) pitch dark, (b) ground > all rocks & cactus, and (c) it had been a rainy last few days so all was quite > damp, and as I've mentioned there isn't quite room enough to sleep in the > back of my Cherokee especially when it's packed full of stuff, I just tossed my > air matress & sleeping bag up on the roof, carefully climbed up there (so as > not to dent the sheet metal with a knee or a foot), and slept very > comfortably on the roof--first time, then or since, that I've ever done that. My Jeep > has a little roof rack, so the railing provided reasonable assurance that I > wouldn't roll off. In the morning I was treated to about the most magnicent > sunrise I'd ever seen; clouds and colors kept changing as the sun moved up > toward the various hanging clouds and fog banks down low in the valleys to the > south, and I took "gazilions" of pictures with my digital camera.> > Pete Modreski, Denver CO> > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest > products.> (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)> > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From totis99 at yahoo.com Thu Nov 29 11:19:45 2007 From: totis99 at yahoo.com (teresa otis) Date: Thu Nov 29 11:21:15 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations In-Reply-To: <001301c8329a$afcf7420$c00aa118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <580866.67613.qm@web36712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just a couple quick 'accommodation' stories: While living in Arkansas, it was a common for us to take off for a day and end up gone for the weekend 'following the rocks'. On one such trip, we decided to head down to Magnet Cove and Hot Springs for the day. After spending the day going around thru cool places in Magnet Cover, we decided to go in to Hot Springs, have dinner, maybe a drink, and drive on back to Little Rock (only 70 miles). We quickly realized we were exhausted and would just as soon stay the night somewhere and go back to Magnet Cove and on down to Murfreesboro the next day. It was about 10 at night at this point, so we stopped at a clean appearing and inexpensive motel not far from horse race track and checked in and crashed. Yes it was clean, small room, single bed, 13 inch B & W tv.....just 'ye old hotel on the highway'. In the morning we got up to take a quick shower and hit the road. I stepped in to the shower stall and was looking DOWN to the shower head. (I'm only 5'8"). At that point we realized the place was really designed for the jockeys from the track! The shower head was at best 4 feet from the floor! LOL! In Arizona, a friend of ours had been out rock hunting all day and decided to crash in his car for the night. Mindful of storms to the north of him and how rapidly dry washes can flood, he parked high enough on a little hillock to be on the safe side. It rained during the night. In the morning, he could here water rushing around him and other strange sounds he couldn't identify. He looked out the window to see he was stranded above the high water ... along with a pack of javalina! (fortunately, the water level dropped within a couple hours and everyone went on their merry way). Teresa Otis ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Nov 29 10:43:19 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Nov 29 11:43:22 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations In-Reply-To: <001301c8329a$afcf7420$c00aa118@feldsparflash> References: <009201c831eb$940aa3e0$93b45545@JOHN><005001c83230$27eece80$0200a8c0@kadok> <001301c8329a$afcf7420$c00aa118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <002d01c832b7$b5fb04f0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Carolyn, That is one of the most peculiar trip reports I have ever come across ;-))) Waving a UV-source around in a severe thunderstorm...that would make you even more fanatic about fluorescence than I am (LOL). What does the scapolite do? Red fluorescence or the wernerite (meyonite)-yellow? >From Kansas, hum? I wonder how that yellow brick road would behave under SW-UV... More chance of being panhandled than manhandled there, I hear. Seems like tornado alley is turning into tornado avenue these last few years. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Carolyn Reynard > Verzonden: donderdag 29 november 2007 16:16 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Accommodations > > The summer of 2005 found several club members, Mid-Hudson > Valley Gem & Mineral Society of Poughkeepsie, NY, traveling > to Bancroft, Ontario, Canada. > It was the weekend of the annual Gemboree so getting a place > to stay had been reserved ahead of time. We had two rooms > behind a corner store and restaurant. There was water, AC, > TV, suitable beds, misplaced sink faucet so you couldn't get > a glass under it and weird wallpaper - an adventure. > The weather was extremely hot for there, hovering during the > daytime at 102 degrees. > Late afternoon, while were at roadside collecting diopside > and scapolite huge towering clouds were developing and we > could hear the rumble of thunder. Being originally from > Kansas I knew we were in for a big storm. We went about our > way and finally stopped at a pizza restaurant for dinner. > Then the storm hit, lights went out! Sideways high thrashing > wind and flashing lightning accompanied our dinner. We > watched their pizza sign as it swung nearly bending to the > ground. Luckily our pizza had already been prepared so we ate > by candlelight. Being loony rockhounds we decided to do some > night collecting with our UV lamps, it certainly was dark > enough. We crawled over the C & N rock pile with both sw and > lw lamps.The rain had abated somewhat and thankfully we > didn't attract lightning as the storm continued to move > south. The collecting was good and there was the excitement > of living on the edge. We arrived at our place to stay to > find the electric out, which meant no AC or water. Here we > were dirty, grungy, hot and sticky and the mosquitoes were as > large as the loons. The power was out for two days and > nights. The storm was wide spread and had generated several > tornadoes. In some areas there was quite a bit of damage. The > conditions didn't dissuade us and we continued to go to new > collecting sites each day. Finally the power was back on and > we had water at last; we reveled in the cleanup. Some might > consider our time there a bit of a disaster, but I feel if > you get home safely with your treasure, you have a good story to tell! > > Carolyn Reynard > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margaret Malm" > To: ; "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A > mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:32 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) > > > > The Aussies do have some very ingenious car tents. I have > friends who have > a > > "rig" that, when traveling, is just a small trailer, about > 6 ft x 6 (or > > maybe 8) feet x about a foot or so deep. Trails very > nicely. Stop and the > > top folds back and down making a sort of vestibule that extends the > > sleeping/living area, a top goes up over all of it and > another one also > > extends out to the side as a fly. A table pulls out from > the trailer, > also, > > under the fly. All goes up /down in just a few minutes. > > > > Margaret > > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) > > > > Pete, > > > > If you search for Australian car tents you'll eventually > find your way to > > very ingeneous rooftop tents. > > > > John > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 7:18 AM > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) > > > > > > > > > > I can't resist responding to this line of thought... > > > > > > In a message dated 11/27/2007 12:47:31 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > > ajs@frii.com writes: > > > > > >> ...weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), most > dangerous or coolest > > >> place that members have camped, boarded or otherwise > racked out during > > >> a rockhound trip. > > > > > > > > > > > > About three years ago, heading home after the Tucson > Show, I left Tucson > > > after dark Sunday evening and planned to camp out in the > desert; I knew > of > > > > > a > > > good place to get off I-10 onto some dirt roads near the > AZ-NM border > > > (Steins > > > Pass), where I'd stopped on my way out and gone for a > little hike--found > > > some > > > neat volcanic rocks there, though no minerals of note. > So I pulled > off; > > > since > > > I knew where I wanted to go it was easy even in the dark; > and parked > > > about a > > > mile from the interstate. Well, because it was (a) pitch > dark, (b) > > > ground > > > all rocks & cactus, and (c) it had been a rainy last few > days so all > was > > > quite > > > damp, and as I've mentioned there isn't quite room enough > to sleep in > the > > > back of my Cherokee especially when it's packed full of > stuff, I just > > > tossed my > > > air matress & sleeping bag up on the roof, carefully > climbed up there > (so > > > as > > > not to dent the sheet metal with a knee or a foot), and slept very > > > comfortably on the roof--first time, then or since, that > I've ever done > > > that. My Jeep > > > has a little roof rack, so the railing provided > reasonable assurance > that > > > > > I > > > wouldn't roll off. In the morning I was treated to about > the most > > > magnicent > > > sunrise I'd ever seen; clouds and colors kept changing as > the sun moved > > > up > > > toward the various hanging clouds and fog banks down low > in the valleys > > > to the > > > south, and I took "gazilions" of pictures with my digital camera. > > > > > > Pete Modreski, Denver CO > > > > > > > > > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's > list of 2007's > > > hottest > > > products. > > > > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000 > 30000000001) > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From jcfay at earthlink.net Thu Nov 29 12:34:49 2007 From: jcfay at earthlink.net (jcfay@earthlink.net) Date: Thu Nov 29 12:34:57 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Guy Message-ID: <380-2200711429203449875@earthlink.net> Greetings all, My name is Johnny and I live in Northern Illinois. Being a land surveyor I walk around a lot and always look down. I still have my first rock, a small piece of granite. 35 years ago I started doing lapidary work mostly cutting and polishing agates and jaspers into cabs. A little silver work followed. Then a devorce. That was 20 years ago in 2 years I will retire and I need something to do. I still have all my equiptment and most of my rocks. The equiptment is 20 - 30 years old and the rocks are older. The reason for joining would be: 1) See whats new in equiptment,, I assume it all diamond for polishing now. 2) Find new rocks. Thats all for now, Johnny jcfay@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Thu Nov 29 12:50:31 2007 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Thu Nov 29 12:48:33 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations References: <009201c831eb$940aa3e0$93b45545@JOHN><005001c83230$27eece80$0200a8c0@kadok> <001301c8329a$afcf7420$c00aa118@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <001801c832c9$7bc236c0$6400a8c0@Junior> Small world - I was selling at the Gemboree that year, and it was a weird one. We're just not used to 100 degree temps here in Ontario. A buddy put me up in his house north of Bancroft, never mentioned that it has no air conditioning - so I was decidedly sick and sleepless. I just can't take any serious heat, and was glad as hell to get out of there. When the big storm came, it was amazing, blew the screens off the house and took out a lot of timber. Not much damage remains visible; I drove around there this fall and you can see where some forest used to be, and some splintered trees, but it really looks pretty much normal and healed up. I'll never return to Bancroft in July/August; Sep-Nov is just so much nicer for collecting and you've got the place to yourself. Cheers, Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Business: http://www.element51.com Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Reynard" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:15 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations > The summer of 2005 found several club members, Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & > Mineral Society of Poughkeepsie, NY, traveling to Bancroft, Ontario, > Canada. > It was the weekend of the annual Gemboree so getting a place to stay had > been reserved ahead of time. We had two rooms behind a corner store and > restaurant. There was water, AC, TV, suitable beds, misplaced sink faucet > so you couldn't get a glass under it and weird wallpaper - an adventure. > The weather was extremely hot for there, hovering during the daytime at > 102 > degrees. > Late afternoon, while were at roadside collecting diopside and scapolite > huge towering clouds were developing and we could hear the rumble of > thunder. Being originally from Kansas I knew we were in for a big storm. > We snip From kadok at infowest.com Thu Nov 29 13:53:59 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Nov 29 13:53:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Sleeping in bad places In-Reply-To: <001901c83291$818e9130$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> References: <001201c8326a$ba222060$f5fb7ec8@ricardocasa> <001901c83291$818e9130$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> Message-ID: <002401c832d2$58c07cf0$0200a8c0@kadok> I wouldn't say this place was really bad, but we, un,--weird! This was in western Australia; there were a bunch of us traveling in a bus -(ooh, excuse me, a Coach!) -- on "The Great Australia Rockhounds' Runabout" --, camping out at night. We pulled into the (reserved) area, and set up out tents. Then, we found that apparently we were camped in what the owner's geese felt was THEIR area! Every time I came out of my tent, this old gander latched onto the calf of my leg! He could really bite, too! I ended up with several large black-and blule spots on the calves of my legs before we got away from there the next morning! <;-D Margaret >Sleeping in bad places: Well, as a field geologist I've spent a fair >bit of time on the ground in out-of-the-way places, but the worst place >I've ever slept by far was on the outskirts of Houston, in the 1970s, in >a hotel that charged $8 per night. Well, what can you expect for $8? >As I remember the carpet was one of those thin industrial things and had >mysterious greasy stains. The cotton bedspread was decades old and had >holes in it, and the wallpaper was peeling. The stall shower leaked and >had a happy population of roaches. And best of all, as I pulled back >the covers to retire for the night, there were four roaches on the bed. >I slept comfortably and was more amused than upset by all of this, but I >didn't go back, either. Cheers - Earl Dr. Earl R. Verbeek Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum P: 973-209-7212 F: 973-209-8505 E: shmm@ptd.net -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kadok at infowest.com Thu Nov 29 14:04:45 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Nov 29 14:04:11 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations In-Reply-To: <580866.67613.qm@web36712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <001301c8329a$afcf7420$c00aa118@feldsparflash> <580866.67613.qm@web36712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002501c832d3$da482ab0$0200a8c0@kadok> Speaking of weird showers -- I was at a "Summer academy" course in England; at Canterbury. We were housed in the college housing (this was summer, and school was out. I found the shower in a little curtained-off alcove in the hall. The alcove was about 6 geet long and 3 feet deep. AND the shower head was mounted on the LONG wall, just across from the door, and could not be depressed enough to keep the water from shooting across and out into the hallway -- the curtain didn't help much! I have observed, though, that in England you seldom find showers; they all seem to prefer tubs. The "best" motel story I have for this country, though, was when I was a kid (about 65 years ago or so). We were on vacation and stopped at a motel for the night. It was dark when we pulled in. The cabins were all in a row with little garages in between, so you never saw what was in back. We had hardly gotten settled, when there was a LOUD toot and roar; we rushed to the window (in back) and found that the RR track ran just outside out window! Turned out to be a busy track, too! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of teresa otis Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:20 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations Just a couple quick 'accommodation' stories: While living in Arkansas, it was a common for us to take off for a day and end up gone for the weekend 'following the rocks'. On one such trip, we decided to head down to Magnet Cove and Hot Springs for the day. After spending the day going around thru cool places in Magnet Cover, we decided to go in to Hot Springs, have dinner, maybe a drink, and drive on back to Little Rock (only 70 miles). We quickly realized we were exhausted and would just as soon stay the night somewhere and go back to Magnet Cove and on down to Murfreesboro the next day. It was about 10 at night at this point, so we stopped at a clean appearing and inexpensive motel not far from horse race track and checked in and crashed. Yes it was clean, small room, single bed, 13 inch B & W tv.....just 'ye old hotel on the highway'. In the morning we got up to take a quick shower and hit the road. I stepped in to the shower stall and was looking DOWN to the shower head. (I'm only 5'8"). At that point we realized the place was really designed for the jockeys from the track! The shower head was at best 4 feet from the floor! LOL! In Arizona, a friend of ours had been out rock hunting all day and decided to crash in his car for the night. Mindful of storms to the north of him and how rapidly dry washes can flood, he parked high enough on a little hillock to be on the safe side. It rained during the night. In the morning, he could here water rushing around him and other strange sounds he couldn't identify. He looked out the window to see he was stranded above the high water ... along with a pack of javalina! (fortunately, the water level dropped within a couple hours and everyone went on their merry way). Teresa Otis ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Nov 29 17:19:44 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Nov 29 17:19:56 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Guy References: <380-2200711429203449875@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <474F6523.36E6@Tomaszewski.net> Welcome Johnny! Nothing wrong with old equipment that has had reasonable care. My flat lap and my combo unit have passed their 40th birthdays and still work great. But you are right, most of the new equipment is all diamond. Kreigh jcfay@earthlink.net wrote: > > Greetings all, My name is Johnny and I live in Northern Illinois. Being a land surveyor I walk around a lot and always look down. I still have my first rock, a small piece of granite. > > 35 years ago I started doing lapidary work mostly cutting and polishing agates and jaspers into cabs. A little silver work followed. Then a devorce. > > That was 20 years ago in 2 years I will retire and I need something to do. I still have all my equiptment and most of my rocks. The equiptment is 20 - 30 years old and the rocks are older. > > The reason for joining would be: > 1) See whats new in equiptment,, I assume it all diamond for polishing now. > 2) Find new rocks. > > Thats all for now, > Johnny > > jcfay@earthlink.net > EarthLink Revolves Around You. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kcbaran at arczip.com Thu Nov 29 17:18:18 2007 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Thu Nov 29 17:24:27 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] hat happened? Message-ID: <474F64DA.8000305@arczip.com> I responded (twice) to the thread about strange places to stay, etc. I had two stories about a fire and a UFO. I didn't see my responses anyplace. I know it's a longshot, but anyone have any idea where they went? Think my info about the UFO was intercepted by the MIB? Thanks. Chuck Baran From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Nov 29 17:35:39 2007 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Nov 29 17:35:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations References: <001301c8329a$afcf7420$c00aa118@feldsparflash> <580866.67613.qm@web36712.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002501c832d3$da482ab0$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <004401c832f1$504cd9a0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Margaret, your second story reminds me of the movie "My Cousin Vinny." Most of my experiences are centered around the Cave in Rock area. The Cave in Rock Motel and Pounds Hollow Motel abuse the definition of the word "motel." My wife, daughter & I camped at Pounds Hollow State Forest one July night and together we ended up with 1000 chigger bites (we counted them as we dabbed on the ChiggaRid)! But we had a few other adventures more recently... There's a motel in Mountain Home, AR that boasted of a lake view in their promotional literature. Yeah right, it was a mile away and you needed binoculars to see it well! And then we stayed at a $250 night motel a block from the beach in San Diego. What a dump! Our first room - the floor sagged so badly it looked like you'd fall through if you sat on the toilet! We thought we'd get electricuted because water flowed around an electrical outlet at floor level plugged into a window AC unit. They gave us another room and I'll be darned if it was directly BELOW the previous one! So instead of worrying you'd fall through, you worried that someone would kill you by landing on your head! And then we had to call the police because the couple next door were having a knock-down drag out argument and we didn't want a fist, furniture or bullets to come flying through the pitifully thin walls. Oh, and this was an approved AAA listed motel. My wife reamed out the AAA people when we got back home. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Malm" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 5:04 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Accommodations > Speaking of weird showers -- > I was at a "Summer academy" course in England; at Canterbury. We were > housed > in the college housing (this was summer, and school was out. I found the > shower in a little curtained-off alcove in the hall. The alcove was about > 6 > geet long and 3 feet deep. AND the shower head was mounted on the LONG > wall, > just across from the door, and could not be depressed enough to keep the > water from shooting across and out into the hallway -- the curtain didn't > help much! I have observed, though, that in England you seldom find > showers; they all seem to prefer tubs. > > The "best" motel story I have for this country, though, was when I was a > kid > (about 65 years ago or so). We were on vacation and stopped at a motel for > the night. It was dark when we pulled in. The cabins were all in a row > with > little garages in between, so you never saw what was in back. We had > hardly > gotten settled, when there was a LOUD toot and roar; we rushed to the > window > (in back) and found that the RR track ran just outside out window! Turned > out to be a busy track, too! > > Margaret > > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of teresa otis > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:20 PM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations > > > Just a couple quick 'accommodation' stories: > > While living in Arkansas, it was a common for us to > take off for a day and end up gone for the weekend > 'following the rocks'. On one such trip, we decided > to head down to Magnet Cove and Hot Springs for the > day. After spending the day going around thru cool > places in Magnet Cover, we decided to go in to Hot > Springs, have dinner, maybe a drink, and drive on back > to Little Rock (only 70 miles). We quickly realized > we were exhausted and would just as soon stay the > night somewhere and go back to Magnet Cove and on down > to Murfreesboro the next day. > > It was about 10 at night at this point, so we stopped > at a clean appearing and inexpensive motel not far > from horse race track and checked in and crashed. Yes > it was clean, small room, single bed, 13 inch B & W > tv.....just 'ye old hotel on the highway'. In the > morning we got up to take a quick shower and hit the > road. I stepped in to the shower stall and was > looking DOWN to the shower head. (I'm only 5'8"). At > that point we realized the place was really designed > for the jockeys from the track! The shower head was > at best 4 feet from the floor! LOL! > > In Arizona, a friend of ours had been out rock hunting > all day and decided to crash in his car for the night. > Mindful of storms to the north of him and how rapidly > dry washes can flood, he parked high enough on a > little hillock to be on the safe side. It rained > during the night. In the morning, he could here water > rushing around him and other strange sounds he > couldn't identify. He looked out the window to see he > was stranded above the high water ... along with a > pack of javalina! (fortunately, the water level > dropped within a couple hours and everyone went on > their merry way). > > Teresa Otis > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From geenet at centurytel.net Thu Nov 29 17:38:37 2007 From: geenet at centurytel.net (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 29 17:38:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations References: Message-ID: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> Pete, you can send me a few of those sunrise pictures. I'd love to see them. Glenn wants ME to tell the story of our night in Zion NP. Although not officially a rockhounding trip (I'm not saying we ever took rocks out of a PARK), it did involve rocks. We drove out to Utah in '93 to take our girls to BYU for a youth event. We left them in Provo and took off for our first tour of Utah. Before we left home, we'd stowed our smallest tent in the car, just in case. We first went to St. George where we spent the night at the Holiday Inn then in the morning, visited Feller Stone, a wholesale aquarium rock outfit which supplied the pet store I worked for. Our sales rep there loaded me up with rocks for my personal use, especially petrified wood. then we left for Zion NP. Somewhere, too far from St. George to turn back, we realized we'd left our pillows at the Holiday Inn, so we called the motel from Zion's visitor center and made plans to go back the next day to get them. Hey, I love my down pillow! We spent the afternoon exploring Zion and since we wanted to do at least one of the hikes, AND...we had a pup tent, we decided to spend the night in Zion. We picked out a nice campsite under a big cottonwood tree, and proceeded to set up our tent. Apparently somebody, namely one or more of the girls, had used to tent to camp out in the back yard, and didn't repack the tent with all the equipment. We had one three of the four required poles, no stakes, and no ropes. So we made do with a ball of string out of the car's toolbox, a couple of screwdrivers for pegs, and rocks in the corners to hold it down, and arrrgggh no pillows. Well, evidently a thick bed of cottonwood tree down, and clothes for pillows makes good sleeping because that was one of the more comfortable nights of camping we've ever had. At least until just before dawn....I awoke out of a sound sleep to the sound of distant roaring. I lay there wondering what the heck it was when the wind hit the tent. Evidently there is something about the air heating up down in the desert that sends a morning blast of wind up the canyon. It only blew a few minutes, just long enough to pull the "stakes" out and blow the tent down on our heads, but the rocks kept it from blowing away. We crawled out and watched the most incredible dawn as the sun lit up the west side of the canyon walls. I grabbed the video camera and got about a minute of the sunlight racing down the walls before the battery died.... Remind me someday to tell what happened when we drove thru the Petrified Forest later with a van full of petrified rocks from St. George.... Jeanette and Glenn >> ...weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest >> place that members have camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during >> a rockhound trip. > > > . In the morning I was treated to about the most magnicent > sunrise I'd ever seen; clouds and colors kept changing as the sun moved > up > toward the various hanging clouds and fog banks down low in the valleys > to the > south, and I took "gazilions" of pictures with my digital camera. > > Pete Modreski, Denver CO > From jcessna at nist.gov Thu Nov 29 18:00:40 2007 From: jcessna at nist.gov (Jeffrey T. Cessna) Date: Thu Nov 29 18:01:01 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations, petrified forest In-Reply-To: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20071129204757.02324970@nist.gov> That reminds me of something from the show table last month at our local rock club meeting. One of our members had visited a park known for petrified wood (possibly the same one) after having collected elsewhere. He was forewarned and removed all of the rocks from his car before he went to the park ... except a small one in the glove box. He was able to check it in on the way into the park. At the meeting he showed the rock, still in it's plastic bag, sealed with a piece of official government red tape. -Jeff At 08:38 PM 11/29/2007, you wrote: >[...] >Remind me someday to tell what happened when we drove thru the >Petrified Forest later with a van full of petrified rocks from St. George.... >Jeanette and Glenn From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Nov 29 18:23:04 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Nov 29 18:22:59 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tumbling experiment Message-ID: <474F73F1.1691@Tomaszewski.net> About a month ago I fired up my two barrel tumbler. The loads included microcline and fluorapatite collected this past summer (smashed with a hammer), some agate (trim saw scraps), a clear chunk of quartz (broken Arkansas point) for each barrel to check the polish, and some chunks of marble (white landscape 'gravel'). I tried to give each barrel the same mix of rock and sizes. One barrel got two scoops of sand from the Lake Michigan shoreline, the other barrel got two scoops of mixed carbo from my recycle bucket. I ran both barrels for three weeks and a couple days. When I cleaned the barrels out the sand barrel had done a better job of rounding the microcline, but the carbo barrel did a better job of rounding the agate, quartz, and marble. The sand barrel was more like mud and the carbo barrel was more like foam. I put the same small scoop of (recycled) cerium oxide into both barrels and ran them for another week. I poured the polish back into my recycle jar, rinsed until the water came off clear, added laundry soap and sawdust, and ran them for another four hours before the final wash/rinse/dry process. I got the best polish overall from the barrel that used sand (especially noticable on the microcline, fluorapatite, and clear quartz). Both barrels produced a reasonable polish (the carbo barrel was noticably better on the marble). Neither barrel was as good as what I get from using a sequence of grits before polishing, but it may be due to my skipping a prepolish stage. Has anyone else experimented with using sand instead of carbo for tumbling grit? Kreigh From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Nov 29 18:38:25 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 29 18:38:28 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2007 Mobile Rock and Gem Show Report In-Reply-To: <380-2200711429203449875@earthlink.net> References: <380-2200711429203449875@earthlink.net> Message-ID: This was the 13th annual show for our club. It was held at the Fairgrounds at the edge of the Mobile City Limit which has become the custom in recent years. It is also held regularly on Thanksgiving weekend. There is definitely much to be said for consistancy. Our show has been growing steadily each year. We had a full and varied compliment of dealers with terrific wares of jewelry, minerals, fossils, and rock creations. Most are regulars at the show each year with only a few new and a few sadly gone. One of the dealers who retired is sincerely missed even though his stock was bought by one of the "new" dealers. Another new dealer is a long time club member. All our display boxes were nicely filled with items of beauty and interest to our hobby. Demonstrators cabbed, faceted, wire wrapped, beaded, and even opened pearl oysters. I think every oyster held at least one nice pearl and some had multiple treasures. As usual our gem dig and sluice were big hits. The sluice has been updated and improved. It now has 2 complete runs to accommodate more screeners. The water was recycled by 2 pumps and large drums caught the muddy sludge and let reasonably clean water overflow into a larger tub from which it was pumped back to the top of each sluice. Screens were provided and bags of dirt were found to contain valuable stones hidden in their dirt. Club members used charts to help identify the finds. Lots of folks got dirty and wet. Door prizes were donated en masse and given away about each half hour. The club raffle also attracted lots of attention and yielded 5 very valuable prizes. Geodes being cracked, UV displays by dealers, the Rock Food Table, carvings, fossils, lots of mineral specimens, beaucoup jewelry items, and way too many things to name were among the sights and offerings during the event. Even a gourmet food vendor added to the enjoyment. People who come leave looking forward to coming back next year. It should be noted that many along the Gulf Coast are still recovering from the effects of Hurricane Katrina that struck in August of 2005. Several rock clubs, private dealers, and individual members are included in this group. Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE! http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Nov 29 18:52:29 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 29 18:52:31 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] hat happened? In-Reply-To: <474F64DA.8000305@arczip.com> References: <474F64DA.8000305@arczip.com> Message-ID: Check your sent box. Some of my replies try to go to writer, not the list. Glenn > Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 17:18:18 -0800> From: kcbaran@arczip.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: [Rockhounds] hat happened?> > I responded (twice) to the thread about strange places to stay, etc. I > had two stories about a fire and a UFO. I didn't see my responses > anyplace. I know it's a longshot, but anyone have any idea where they > went? Think my info about the UFO was intercepted by the MIB? Thanks.> > Chuck Baran> > > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/connect.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_newways_112007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lavenderfish at cox.net Thu Nov 29 18:54:06 2007 From: lavenderfish at cox.net (Carol Carter-Wientjes) Date: Thu Nov 29 18:54:10 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations References: <001301c8329a$afcf7420$c00aa118@feldsparflash><580866.67613.qm@web36712.mail.mud.yahoo.com><002501c832d3$da482ab0$0200a8c0@kadok> <004401c832f1$504cd9a0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <035a01c832fc$461619a0$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> LOL! WoW, you must mean Lake Norfolk! (by Mt. Home) Been there many, many times as a kid traveling over by ferry to see grandparents who lived there "on the lake" in the '60's & '70's. You're right, always a pair of binoculars on the deck to see over the thick tree line out to what was happening on the lake. A looooong hilly, curvy drive to get to the beach too......we dove for shells & rocks right up until the time Grandpa told us a tale about the 6' long catfish that lived on the bottom....eeeeek!! Carol Carter-Wientjes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Goldstein" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations > Margaret, your second story reminds me of the movie "My Cousin Vinny." > > Most of my experiences are centered around the Cave in Rock area. The Cave > in Rock Motel and Pounds Hollow Motel abuse the definition of the word > "motel." My wife, daughter & I camped at Pounds Hollow State Forest one > July night and together we ended up with 1000 chigger bites (we counted > them as we dabbed on the ChiggaRid)! But we had a few other adventures > more recently... > > There's a motel in Mountain Home, AR that boasted of a lake view in their > promotional literature. Yeah right, it was a mile away and you needed > binoculars to see it well! > > And then we stayed at a $250 night motel a block from the beach in San > Diego. What a dump! Our first room - the floor sagged so badly it looked > like you'd fall through if you sat on the toilet! We thought we'd get > electricuted because water flowed around an electrical outlet at floor > level plugged into a window AC unit. They gave us another room and I'll be > darned if it was directly BELOW the previous one! So instead of worrying > you'd fall through, you worried that someone would kill you by landing on > your head! And then we had to call the police because the couple next door > were having a knock-down drag out argument and we didn't want a fist, > furniture or bullets to come flying through the pitifully thin walls. Oh, > and this was an approved AAA listed motel. My wife reamed out the AAA > people when we got back home. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margaret Malm" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" > > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 5:04 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Accommodations > > >> Speaking of weird showers -- >> I was at a "Summer academy" course in England; at Canterbury. We were >> housed >> in the college housing (this was summer, and school was out. I found the >> shower in a little curtained-off alcove in the hall. The alcove was >> about 6 >> geet long and 3 feet deep. AND the shower head was mounted on the LONG >> wall, >> just across from the door, and could not be depressed enough to keep the >> water from shooting across and out into the hallway -- the curtain didn't >> help much! I have observed, though, that in England you seldom find >> showers; they all seem to prefer tubs. >> >> The "best" motel story I have for this country, though, was when I was a >> kid >> (about 65 years ago or so). We were on vacation and stopped at a motel >> for >> the night. It was dark when we pulled in. The cabins were all in a row >> with >> little garages in between, so you never saw what was in back. We had >> hardly >> gotten settled, when there was a LOUD toot and roar; we rushed to the >> window >> (in back) and found that the RR track ran just outside out window! >> Turned >> out to be a busy track, too! >> >> Margaret >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com >> [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of teresa otis >> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:20 PM >> To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations >> >> >> Just a couple quick 'accommodation' stories: >> >> While living in Arkansas, it was a common for us to >> take off for a day and end up gone for the weekend >> 'following the rocks'. On one such trip, we decided >> to head down to Magnet Cove and Hot Springs for the >> day. After spending the day going around thru cool >> places in Magnet Cover, we decided to go in to Hot >> Springs, have dinner, maybe a drink, and drive on back >> to Little Rock (only 70 miles). We quickly realized >> we were exhausted and would just as soon stay the >> night somewhere and go back to Magnet Cove and on down >> to Murfreesboro the next day. >> >> It was about 10 at night at this point, so we stopped >> at a clean appearing and inexpensive motel not far >> from horse race track and checked in and crashed. Yes >> it was clean, small room, single bed, 13 inch B & W >> tv.....just 'ye old hotel on the highway'. In the >> morning we got up to take a quick shower and hit the >> road. I stepped in to the shower stall and was >> looking DOWN to the shower head. (I'm only 5'8"). At >> that point we realized the place was really designed >> for the jockeys from the track! The shower head was >> at best 4 feet from the floor! LOL! >> >> In Arizona, a friend of ours had been out rock hunting >> all day and decided to crash in his car for the night. >> Mindful of storms to the north of him and how rapidly >> dry washes can flood, he parked high enough on a >> little hillock to be on the safe side. It rained >> during the night. In the morning, he could here water >> rushing around him and other strange sounds he >> couldn't identify. He looked out the window to see he >> was stranded above the high water ... along with a >> pack of javalina! (fortunately, the water level >> dropped within a couple hours and everyone went on >> their merry way). >> >> Teresa Otis >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ >> ________ >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From geenet at centurytel.net Thu Nov 29 19:07:38 2007 From: geenet at centurytel.net (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 29 19:07:49 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations, petrified forest References: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> <7.0.1.0.2.20071129204757.02324970@nist.gov> Message-ID: <007201c832fe$2aec7280$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> heh heh heh.... We didn't remove any rocks before getting to the park, and the park ranger began dutifully marking each rock with chalk. After about 15 minutes of marking rocks we had in back, plus stuffed under seats, in van pockets, etc. etc. he prevailed upon our honor NOT to steal any rocks from the park. Of course we promised not to, and didn't. After all we already had plenty. He called ahead to the ranger at the other end, and he happily waved us thru when we exited the park. Jeanette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey T. Cessna" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations, petrified forest > That reminds me of something from the show table last month at our local > rock club meeting. One of our members had visited a park known for > petrified wood (possibly the same one) after having collected elsewhere. > He was forewarned and removed all of the rocks from his car before he went > to the park ... except a small one in the glove box. He was able to check > it in on the way into the park. > > At the meeting he showed the rock, still in it's plastic bag, sealed with > a piece of official government red tape. > > -Jeff > From lavenderfish at cox.net Thu Nov 29 19:21:04 2007 From: lavenderfish at cox.net (Carol Carter-Wientjes) Date: Thu Nov 29 19:21:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations References: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <037701c83300$0a22ab80$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> I'd love to hear your Pet. Forest story! This isn't an accomodation story, but earlier this year my husband Hans & I escorted his 2 Dutch tantes (aunts) who were visiting from Holland on a trip thru the southwest. One afternoon included a stop at the Petrified Forest (so awesome!!) and after we passed thru the park entrance Hans told us under no circumstances were any of us, looking at ME the rock freak in particular, to pick up any petrified souvenirs off the ground or we were all going to JAIL. Had a wonderful time ohhhing & ahhing at the colorful logs along the tour trail and then piled back into the car. Almost to the checkpoint to leave the park and hubby jokes, Ok nobody picked up any rocks did they!? ha ha ha (eyeing me in the rear view mirror). Then a tiny voice from the back of the van, Yaaaahhhh..... followed by the sound of screeching brakes.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations > Pete, you can send me a few of those sunrise pictures. I'd love to see > them. > > Glenn wants ME to tell the story of our night in Zion NP. Although not > officially a rockhounding trip (I'm not saying we ever took rocks out of a > PARK), it did involve rocks. > We drove out to Utah in '93 to take our girls to BYU for a youth event. We > left them in Provo and took off for our first tour of Utah. Before we > left home, we'd stowed our smallest tent in the car, just in case. We > first went to St. George where we spent the night at the Holiday Inn then > in the morning, visited Feller Stone, a wholesale aquarium rock outfit > which supplied the pet store I worked for. Our sales rep there loaded me > up with rocks for my personal use, especially petrified wood. then we left > for Zion NP. Somewhere, too far from St. George to turn back, we realized > we'd left our pillows at the Holiday Inn, so we called the motel from > Zion's visitor center and made plans to go back the next day to get them. > Hey, I love my down pillow! We spent the afternoon exploring Zion and > since we wanted to do at least one of the hikes, AND...we had a pup tent, > we decided to spend the night in Zion. We picked out a nice campsite > under a big cottonwood tree, and proceeded to set up our tent. Apparently > somebody, namely one or more of the girls, had used to tent to camp out in > the back yard, and didn't repack the tent with all the equipment. We had > one three of the four required poles, no stakes, and no ropes. So we made > do with a ball of string out of the car's toolbox, a couple of > screwdrivers for pegs, and rocks in the corners to hold it down, and > arrrgggh no pillows. Well, evidently a thick bed of cottonwood tree down, > and clothes for pillows makes good sleeping because that was one of the > more comfortable nights of camping we've ever had. At least until just > before dawn....I awoke out of a sound sleep to the sound of distant > roaring. I lay there wondering what the heck it was when the wind hit the > tent. Evidently there is something about the air heating up down in the > desert that sends a morning blast of wind up the canyon. It only blew a > few minutes, just long enough to pull the "stakes" out and blow the tent > down on our heads, but the rocks kept it from blowing away. We crawled > out and watched the most incredible dawn as the sun lit up the west side > of the canyon walls. I grabbed the video camera and got about a minute of > the sunlight racing down the walls before the battery died.... > Remind me someday to tell what happened when we drove thru the Petrified > Forest later with a van full of petrified rocks from St. George.... > Jeanette > and Glenn > > >>> ...weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest >>> place that members have camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during >>> a rockhound trip. >> >> >> > . In the morning I was treated to about the most magnicent >> sunrise I'd ever seen; clouds and colors kept changing as the sun moved >> up >> toward the various hanging clouds and fog banks down low in the valleys >> to the >> south, and I took "gazilions" of pictures with my digital camera. >> >> Pete Modreski, Denver CO >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Thu Nov 29 19:27:04 2007 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Thu Nov 29 19:28:22 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) References: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com><008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> <6AF14BE9-AD8A-4E5E-8357-48D661EE7CFC@mc.net><005e01c8309f$71310370$0200a8c0@Notebook> <474E28A3.48EE@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <008001c83300$e6814ff0$0200a8c0@Notebook> Still too booked to get creative but I'm getting there. Apologies to all as the one who started this thread and has yet to contribute to it :-/ It's been quite entertaining so far! John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) > John, > > Are you rested yet? Sounds interesting. > > Kreigh > > > John Siebel wrote: >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Junkroski" >> >We have slept in 35 cent a night "hotels" in Peru ( we couldn't camp >> >because of the insurgent attacks ),... >> >> While those of us who are currently experiencing winter (and long to be >> whacking rocks) are yearning for that perfect vehicle, I thought it might >> be >> an interesting thread to discuss the weirdest, most primitive (or >> high-end), >> most dangerous or coolest place that members have camped, boarded or >> otherwise racked out during a rockhound trip. I've got some input >> (Yucatan >> and a funky little place in Butte, MT come to mind) but I'm too damned >> tired >> from splitting firewood to elaborate right now. >> >> John >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Nov 29 19:30:14 2007 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Nov 29 19:29:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations (Was: Vehicles) References: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com><008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> <6AF14BE9-AD8A-4E5E-8357-48D661EE7CFC@mc.net> <005e01c8309f$71310370$0200a8c0@Notebook> Message-ID: <474F83A7.7AA5@Tomaszewski.net> About twenty years ago I took my family camping on state land in our tent. The site we found along a fire trail was an oxbow loop in a stream that was lined with lady-slipper orchids and mint. We've been back, but nothing beat our first visit. Camp got set up, an old firepit was revived at the tip, overlooking the stream, and life was good. There were interesting rocks in the stream (thanks to the glaciers), and some went home for tumbling. That first evening we sat around our campfire admiring the stars, talking, and listening to the calls of the whip-poor-wills around us. We noticed one particular bird kept getting closer. Whip-poor-wills tend to visit a sequence of stations each night and call as they identify their territory. Then my almost teenaged daughter froze, as did the rest of us. A whip-poor-will had landed on her head. It gave its call a couple times, and flew off. It was my first encounter with this nocturnal bird. None of us will ever forget it. Kreigh John Siebel wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Junkroski" > >We have slept in 35 cent a night "hotels" in Peru ( we couldn't camp > >because of the insurgent attacks ),... > > While those of us who are currently experiencing winter (and long to be > whacking rocks) are yearning for that perfect vehicle, I thought it might be > an interesting thread to discuss the weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), > most dangerous or coolest place that members have camped, boarded or > otherwise racked out during a rockhound trip. I've got some input (Yucatan > and a funky little place in Butte, MT come to mind) but I'm too damned tired > from splitting firewood to elaborate right now. > > John > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Thu Nov 29 19:35:44 2007 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Thu Nov 29 19:35:30 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations, petrified forest In-Reply-To: <007201c832fe$2aec7280$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> <7.0.1.0.2.20071129204757.02324970@nist.gov> <007201c832fe$2aec7280$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <474F8510.2010903@verizon.net> Jeanette Wimpee wrote: > heh heh heh.... > We didn't remove any rocks before getting to the park, and the park > ranger began dutifully marking each rock with chalk. They're really cool about that if you're honest. Back in my AZ days, you could buy petrified wood at 1.00/lb. at the shop outside the south entrance of the park. I drove through the park several times and it is one of my favorite parks in the world. You just show it to the ranger on the way in, and show it to them on the way out, and there's no problem. I'm guessing here, but I suppose they figure anyone who spent money buying a bunch of wood and showing it all to them is probably not likely to risk jail and fines by picking up a few illegal pieces in the park. I was told by one of my "ranger friends" that they catch most people by watching with binoculars. They also do random checks, and on occassion, when they find someone acting funny on the way out, they'll discover a trunkload of wood and take the driver off in handcuffs. But they are definitely not playing around. I'm sure there are lots of people taking chips in their pockets (worth a few cents, by weight, vs. heavy fines and a federal record) but I think they're more concerned about large pieces. I found a nearly complete stump in the park, and I was considering going back to the ranger station and asking if they could have a scientist come and collect it for the museum, but I was pretty far out and decided to just take a really good photo of it. So now it is in my "collection of memories" and I hope a lot of other people got to see it as well. Don From lavenderfish at cox.net Thu Nov 29 19:36:46 2007 From: lavenderfish at cox.net (Carol Carter-Wientjes) Date: Thu Nov 29 19:36:51 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] 2007 Mobile Rock and Gem Show Report References: <380-2200711429203449875@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <038401c83302$3bd33df0$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Boy, I didn't realize you guys had a show over there and missed out on it! Just a few days ago I spoke to the new chairman for the New Orleans Gem & Mineral Society show which has fallen by the wayside since Katrina. He said he's shooting for 2009 for the next show and is interested in talking to anybody who'd like to deal &/or demonstrate. Please let me know if you're interested and I'd be glad to hook you up with him. Carol C-W ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:38 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] 2007 Mobile Rock and Gem Show Report This was the 13th annual show for our club. It was held at the Fairgrounds at the edge of the Mobile City Limit which has become the custom in recent years. It is also held regularly on Thanksgiving weekend. There is definitely much to be said for consistancy. Our show has been growing steadily each year. We had a full and varied compliment of dealers with terrific wares of jewelry, minerals, fossils, and rock creations. Most are regulars at the show each year with only a few new and a few sadly gone. One of the dealers who retired is sincerely missed even though his stock was bought by one of the "new" dealers. Another new dealer is a long time club member. All our display boxes were nicely filled with items of beauty and interest to our hobby. Demonstrators cabbed, faceted, wire wrapped, beaded, and even opened pearl oysters. I think every oyster held at least one nice pearl and some had multiple treasures. As usual our gem dig and sluice were big hits. The sluice has been updated and improved. It now has 2 complete runs to accommodate more screeners. The water was recycled by 2 pumps and large drums caught the muddy sludge and let reasonably clean water overflow into a larger tub from which it was pumped back to the top of each sluice. Screens were provided and bags of dirt were found to contain valuable stones hidden in their dirt. Club members used charts to help identify the finds. Lots of folks got dirty and wet. Door prizes were donated en masse and given away about each half hour. The club raffle also attracted lots of attention and yielded 5 very valuable prizes. Geodes being cracked, UV displays by dealers, the Rock Food Table, carvings, fossils, lots of mineral specimens, beaucoup jewelry items, and way too many things to name were among the sights and offerings during the event. Even a gourmet food vendor added to the enjoyment. People who come leave looking forward to coming back next year. It should be noted that many along the Gulf Coast are still recovering from the effects of Hurricane Katrina that struck in August of 2005. Several rock clubs, private dealers, and individual members are included in this group. Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE! http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_112007 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Ted at crystalgems.com Thu Nov 29 21:05:49 2007 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Thu Nov 29 21:06:00 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations, Petrified Forest antics and other rock absurdities In-Reply-To: <037701c83300$0a22ab80$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> References: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> <037701c83300$0a22ab80$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Message-ID: <000c01c8330e$acc32cd0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> Hokay: I guess I should start with the earlier story. A girlfriend and I did a several month trip around the West in a VW bug oh so many years ago. We loved our stop at the Petrified Forest and back then it was easier to get out the car and romp around amongst the logs. Anyway, when we got back she showed pictures of our trip to her grandfather and since he was taking a road trip with several seniors in a few weeks, he decided to include the Petrified Forest as a stop. Well, they didn't have such a great time; being older and visiting the PF when it was blazing hot, they didn't leave the car much. When they reached the exit gate and the Ranger asked if they were carrying any petrified wood, her grandfather jerked his thumb towards the back and said, yeah got a whole trunk full, to which his fellow seniors snickered. They spent the rest of the afternoon taking everything out of the car. Every time I go to the PF, I get sidetracked and stare at the paved walking paths... So much beautiful wood and it's now pavement. Sigh! I've never taken any rocks into or out of the park. I do make every attempt I can to circle the park looking for collecting opportunities though; just after I go through the park. Back when I and was younger, much younger, I married my wife, Diane (different girlfriend) and for our honeymoon I planned one week on Ocracoke island and another week in Arkansas. That is: three days in Murfreesboro looking for her diamond and two days in Hot Springs so she could forget three days in a giant sun baked lamproite/kimberlite field. Well, the first week in Ocracoke North Carolina, was kinda interesting. The town was small, so we restricted ourselves to one store per day and apparently there was a hurricane approaching which I didn't know about. Outside of our Hotel windows I could see the weather flag at the Coast Guard Station. First day, hmmm two red triangular flags, I wonder what that is. Day two, one red rectangular flag with a black square, now something was nagging at me that I should remember what that flag means. Day three, two red square flags with black square centers, Hey, isn't that a hurricane warning? So, day three we paid the guard station a visit to learn about flags. Turns out Hurricane Dean was passing nearby and oscillating a bit trying to decide if we were the path. It wasn't too bad actually, the winds knocked out power most days and when we ordered meals, the meals were huge as the restaurants piled on crabmeat and scallops before it spoiled. >From Ocracoke we headed to Murfreesboro, a three hour ferry ride, a lot of driving, one flight and many hours later we pulled into the motel late at night where I had reserved a room.. The room smelled must and of chemicals plus the room had that telltale bleached ring around the room from frequent insecticide spraying. We tried the other hotel in town and they were booked full; so we decided to make the best of it. When we turned out the lights, the party began, roaches roaches and more inquisitive roaches. That combined with the cloying chemical smell finally drove us out of the room and we slept the night in the car. Did I mention it was our honeymoon? Next morning, we booked into the other hotel. As we checked out of the dive, the elderly lady asked why and when I told her why, she responded that roaches weren't all that bad and she didn't mind them. Oh well. We didn't find Diane's diamond, but after the baths in Hot Springs, she didn't mind so much. I did pick up some large chunks of Jasper in the park at the edge of the diamond field. On the way out of Murfreesboro we stopped at a rock shop. I bought quite a few pounds of novaculite (Arkansas stone) in translucent white and surgical black. I stuffed maybe seventy pounds of rocks into my suitcase. When we checked our luggage, I did my best to nonchalantly walk up and place the bag down gently. The clerk, booked our tickets, labeled the bags and then went to pick up the bag. After the first jerk and the bag barely moved, she looked exasperated, grabbed the bag with both hands and dragged the bag to the conveyer. Sure couldn't pull that off today. Sure wish I'd bought more of that novaculite then. It was something like 15 or 25 cents a pound. Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Carol Carter-Wientjes Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:21 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations I'd love to hear your Pet. Forest story! This isn't an accomodation story, but earlier this year my husband Hans & I escorted his 2 Dutch tantes (aunts) who were visiting from Holland on a trip thru the southwest. One afternoon included a stop at the Petrified Forest (so awesome!!) and after we passed thru the park entrance Hans told us under no circumstances were any of us, looking at ME the rock freak in particular, to pick up any petrified souvenirs off the ground or we were all going to JAIL. Had a wonderful time ohhhing & ahhing at the colorful logs along the tour trail and then piled back into the car. Almost to the checkpoint to leave the park and hubby jokes, Ok nobody picked up any rocks did they!? ha ha ha (eyeing me in the rear view mirror). Then a tiny voice from the back of the van, Yaaaahhhh..... followed by the sound of screeching brakes.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeanette Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Accommodations From geenet at centurytel.net Thu Nov 29 20:56:54 2007 From: geenet at centurytel.net (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 29 21:19:08 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations References: <380651.87995.qm@web36815.mail.mud.yahoo.com><008f01c8308a$cffcf220$6400a8c0@Junior> <6AF14BE9-AD8A-4E5E-8357-48D661EE7CFC@mc.net><005e01c8309f$71310370$0200a8c0@Notebook> <474F83A7.7AA5@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000001c83310$86e3aba0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> Wow! All the years I've been camping and loved listening to the whip-poor-wills calling, I've never seen one. Don't even know what they look like. Jeanette > That first evening we sat around our campfire admiring the stars, > talking, and listening to the calls of the whip-poor-wills around us. We > noticed one particular bird kept getting closer. Whip-poor-wills tend to > visit a sequence of stations each night and call as they identify their > territory. > > Then my almost teenaged daughter froze, as did the rest of us. A > whip-poor-will had landed on her head. It gave its call a couple times, > and flew off. It was my first encounter with this nocturnal bird. None > of us will ever forget it. > > Kreigh > From geenet at centurytel.net Thu Nov 29 21:27:08 2007 From: geenet at centurytel.net (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Thu Nov 29 21:27:13 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Pete's sunrise References: <380-2200711429203449875@earthlink.net> <038401c83302$3bd33df0$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Message-ID: <002e01c83311$a796fd10$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> You may have to copy and paste the link to Pete's pictures, but they are awesome! http://pictures.aol.com/ap/viewShare.do?shareInfo=esv4e%2b9w77lwX7DVolL2UJHA408f6cB6mVYdPAm5%2fChWGd%2bBXiXp6w%3d%3d From rockcurrier at cs.com Fri Nov 30 02:09:02 2007 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Nov 30 02:10:07 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rough places to stay References: <200711300203.lAU22xbh024907@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <00a001c83339$099373f0$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> Some years ago I wrote an article for the Mineralogical Record called "The Bolivian Death Switch" which describes one trip I took to Bolivia with a friend. It describes among other things the accommodations including the peculiar on demand hot water systems that they often employ in showers in that country. You can get vicious electrical shocks from them if you are not carefull. I could post the article, minus the pictures on this chat group, but it is a lot of stuff to read and I don't know if that would be welcome or not. Rock From sinico at nbnet.nb.ca Fri Nov 30 03:58:35 2007 From: sinico at nbnet.nb.ca (Hans Durstling) Date: Fri Nov 30 03:49:34 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rough places to stay In-Reply-To: <00a001c83339$099373f0$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> References: <200711300203.lAU22xbh024907@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <00a001c83339$099373f0$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> Message-ID: <97802a0ffdfb63a5f1512d90f36787fd@nbnet.nb.ca> Rock - I for one would be delighted if you would post it. It's one of the best mineral travel stories I've ever read. Cheers, Hans Durstling Moncton, Canada - now with a website in (eternal) progress: http://www.virtualfundy.com/VirtualFundyDIY.html On 30-Nov-07, at 6:09 AM, Rock Currier wrote: > Some years ago I wrote an article for the Mineralogical Record called > "The Bolivian Death Switch" which describes one trip I took to Bolivia > with a friend. It describes among other things the accommodations > including the peculiar on demand hot water systems that they often > employ in showers in that country. You can get vicious electrical > shocks from them if you are not carefull. I could post the article, > minus the pictures on this chat group, but it is a lot of stuff to > read and I don't know if that would be welcome or not. > > Rock > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Pmodreski at aol.com Fri Nov 30 05:02:31 2007 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Nov 30 05:02:39 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Pete's sunrise Message-ID: In a message dated 11/29/2007 10:28:03 PM Mountain Standard Time, geenet@centurytel.net writes: You may have to copy and paste the link to Pete's pictures, but they are awesome! _http://pictures.aol.com/ap/viewShare.do?shareInfo=esv4e%2b9w77lwX7DVolL2UJHA4 08f6cB6mVYdPAm5%2fChWGd%2bBXiXp6w%3d%3d_ (http://pictures.aol.com/ap/viewShare.do?shareInfo=esv4e+9w77lwX7DVolL2UJHA408f6cB6mVYdPAm5/ChWGd+BXiXp6w==) Ah, it does work by pasting in this link (I tried it), thanks, Jeanette, for sending this on to the list. If any of you try to look at this, you do not need to sign in or register, just click "View Album as Guest". Pete **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Fri Nov 30 06:38:39 2007 From: gene at fossilnut.com (gene@fossilnut.com) Date: Fri Nov 30 06:38:46 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware/icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite References: <8C9FCDC8B510CBA-B90-1C66@webmail-db04.sysops.aol.com><002401c82f13$c6473a60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><000f01c830d9$9afd7f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP><001401c83113$28751300$b5fcf604@TheBlackAdder><002f01c83124$d063bc40$6401a8c0@AxelHP><00a601c831d7$e30c1a50$6501a8c0@okapi> <01a701c83237$ae4b4e20$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> <000a01c8326e$6b6a9e80$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <00ef01c8335e$b478b0d0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Axel: In addition to fossils, I collect fluorescents and petrified wood. I keep many of the wood slabs and the fluorescents in a commercial, steel print cabinet. I got it second hand and it provides wide, shallow drawers that can hold a lot of weight and accomodate large flat specimens such as polished wood slabs. Some time ago I was checking the wood for radioactivity to ensure I was not keeping a big radon source in the house. As I passed the geiger counter over the drawers one of the slabs showed a lot of activity. I removed the slab and rechecked the drawer only to find the hot spot was still there. After a little checking I realized the source was a nice piece of andersonite two drawers and 2 layers of rock down. Needless to say all my andersonite resides with my other radoiactive fluorescents in the garage. Too bad, I kinda like the "hot" green of andersonite. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: ; "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 4:58 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Fluorescent glass & Fiesta Ware/icecrystals/icespikes/Kryptonite > Hi Gene > > That is correct. If you wash your hand after handling them there should be > no great health risks. > I wouldn't eat of those plates or store food in pots or water in jugs. > Less > well-informed folks (say they inherit a set or buy one at a garage sale) > would not know that. After all, pottery is MEANT to be used, isn't it? > At the height of the cold war there was a great waste-pile of depleted > uranium that was mildly radioactive and in the way big time. There are > some > interesting but chilling stories on the internet about how it was put to > "good use". > > Axel > > >> But let's not lose sight of the original discussion, glass >> and pottery made with uranium salts. The pottery is primariy >> an alpha and beta emitter with very little or no gamma. Thus >> as long as they stay external to you and you don't make a >> habit of sleeping on them, they present little risk. >> >> Gene Hartstein > > From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Nov 30 06:41:54 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Nov 30 06:41:57 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations, Petrified Forest antics and other rock absurdities In-Reply-To: <000c01c8330e$acc32cd0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> References: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> <037701c83300$0a22ab80$6501a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> <000c01c8330e$acc32cd0$0300a8c0@LaptopLand1> Message-ID: When we hit the Petrified Forest one time we already had a couple hundred pounds of rocks in the back of the suburban, which was packed to the gills with rocks, camping gear, clothing and who knows what. Well we pulled up to the gate and the ranger at the gate told us that they would have to bag up any rocks that we had in the truck. Even tho none of it was Pet Wood. Well we got out and started pulling out rocks from everywhere and the guy was stuffing them all in plastic bags until we got to the two or three cut off 55 gallon plastic drums we had in back, full of rocks. The ranger looked and the rocks, sighed and says, "I'll write you a note for the gate at the other end" . Which he did, and that was the end of the bagging. BK --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Nov 30 05:47:36 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Nov 30 06:48:10 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Pete's sunrise In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005001c83357$90f49ae0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Idid (what does "Ipod" mean? From the verb to pod?) Some sunrise! Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Pmodreski@aol.com > Verzonden: vrijdag 30 november 2007 14:03 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: Pete's sunrise > > > In a message dated 11/29/2007 10:28:03 PM Mountain Standard > Time, geenet@centurytel.net writes: > > You may have to copy and paste the link to Pete's pictures, > but they are awesome! > > _http://pictures.aol.com/ap/viewShare.do?shareInfo=esv4e%2b9w7 > 7lwX7DVolL2UJHA4 > 08f6cB6mVYdPAm5%2fChWGd%2bBXiXp6w%3d%3d_ > (http://pictures.aol.com/ap/viewShare.do?shareInfo=esv4e+9w77l > wX7DVolL2UJHA408f6cB6mVYdPAm5/ChWGd+BXiXp6w==) > > > > > > Ah, it does work by pasting in this link (I tried it), > thanks, Jeanette, for sending this on to the list. > > If any of you try to look at this, you do not need to sign in > or register, just click "View Album as Guest". > > Pete > > > > **************************************Check out AOL's list of > 2007's hottest products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000 > 30000000001) > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 30 06:47:54 2007 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Fri Nov 30 06:48:17 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Guy In-Reply-To: <380-2200711429203449875@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <290646.23659.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Johnny, If you are anywhere near DuPage County, get in touch with ESCONI (Earth Science Club of Northern Illinois). THeir lapidary study group is currently dormant, but you'll meet a lot of like-minded folks. www.esconi.org Jim Daly "jcfay@earthlink.net" wrote: Greetings all, My name is Johnny and I live in Northern Illinois. Being a land surveyor I walk around a lot and always look down. I still have my first rock, a small piece of granite. 35 years ago I started doing lapidary work mostly cutting and polishing agates and jaspers into cabs. A little silver work followed. Then a devorce. That was 20 years ago in 2 years I will retire and I need something to do. I still have all my equiptment and most of my rocks. The equiptment is 20 - 30 years old and the rocks are older. The reason for joining would be: 1) See whats new in equiptment,, I assume it all diamond for polishing now. 2) Find new rocks. Thats all for now, Johnny jcfay@earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --------------------------------- Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 30 07:00:06 2007 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Nov 30 07:00:09 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations References: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <002301c83361$b1bfa3f0$6fee254b@LarryRush> Well, I'll add my strangest accommodation story, too. We were on a week-long collecting trip in a nearby state, and decided to stay at a slightly run-down motel to save a few dollars. It was clean, but did seem to have a lot of traffic coming and going. On the first day, since it was late in the afternoon, we spent some time investigating the rock cliffs just behind the motel, when we were approached by 2 men who started asking a lot of personal questions. Turns out they were detectives and when we told them where we were staying, they advised us to get out, since that motel was a known drug dealers gathering spot, the police had it surrounded and they were planning a raid there shortly. But, the owner must have been suspicious, because when we returned, our bags were out on the sidewalk. The owner told us he had made a mistake, and didn't have any more room for us! That was OK with us and we were happy to get out of there! Later in the week, the place was closed and locked! We asked about it at a nearby diner, and were told that it was common knowledge about the drug dealings, and the State Police had rushed the place with drawn guns, bull-horns, the works! We were happy that a coincidence allowed us not to be involved in a police raid, and were a bit more careful in the future about where we stayed! Larry From OnyxCollector at aol.com Fri Nov 30 07:42:54 2007 From: OnyxCollector at aol.com (OnyxCollector@aol.com) Date: Fri Nov 30 07:51:59 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Tumbling experiment Message-ID: I started out using cleaned playground sand from Home Depot, but a bucketful from the beach works fine. **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Nov 30 08:11:18 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Nov 30 08:11:35 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations, petrified forest In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20071129204757.02324970@nist.gov> References: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> <7.0.1.0.2.20071129204757.02324970@nist.gov> Message-ID: <200711301611.lAUGBWts030132@bubbleator.drizzle.com> That's nothing! I drove through the Petrified Forest with a 5 gallon BUCKET of large pieces of wood from a ranch within sight of the south entrance! We went through on our way back to Apache Jct. from collecting at the Murphy's (no you can't collect there lol). I swore I had all the rocks out of the truck and in my friends' trailer which we had left at the ranch (long story). Under a wet sleeping bag, when we got back to his house and unpacked, was the surprise "contraband"! At 06:00 PM 11/29/2007, you wrote: >That reminds me of something from the show table last month at our >local rock club meeting. One of our members had visited a park known >for petrified wood (possibly the same one) after having collected >elsewhere. He was forewarned and removed all of the rocks from his >car before he went to the park ... except a small one in the glove >box. He was able to check it in on the way into the park. > >At the meeting he showed the rock, still in it's plastic bag, sealed >with a piece of official government red tape. > >-Jeff Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On Rockhounding Web Site Owner, Fisher Fisheries, Ltd. Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Nov 30 07:23:12 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Nov 30 08:23:12 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rough places to stay In-Reply-To: <97802a0ffdfb63a5f1512d90f36787fd@nbnet.nb.ca> References: <200711300203.lAU22xbh024907@bubbleator.drizzle.com><00a001c83339$099373f0$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> <97802a0ffdfb63a5f1512d90f36787fd@nbnet.nb.ca> Message-ID: <006201c83364$ec2d0a20$6401a8c0@AxelHP> I have one too ;-))) 25 years ago I went to Idar-Oberstein (volcanic Eifel, Germany) with my bride, shortly after our honeymoon. What can I say... We were young and liked honeymooning ;-) This region used to be the gem-center of Europe as amethyst, agate, quartz and other semi-precious stones were found there. We had to economize a little after 3 weeks in Austria so we picked a "room for rent" in the main street of Idar. This street is VERY steep uphill and the roofs of the houses look like a stairway that runs uphill. The house where we rented the room appeared to be level but wasn't. The not all to comfortable bed was placed parallel with the slope which means that our head was higher than our feet when we lay down in it. Not by much but enough. Enough to make us slide down while tossing and turning in our sleep so that we constantly woke up hanging out of the bed with our feet and knees. We then crawled back upwards to repeat the cycle. To make matters worse, the tilted house was not an ideal place to make a night trip to the toilet (When in Germany, do as the Germans. Beer comes in 0.5 or 1 liter glasses). Sleep drunk as we were we could not walk straight across the tilted floor and on our way to the toilet we kept bumping into the table, cupboard, door , sink, other door and sideboard. When we finally reached the toilet we sat, black and blue, askew on a cracked wooden seat. There was a fridge to keep your food and drinks warm and a TV set that displayed only a very bright white dot in the center of the screen. When we switched the TV off the dot remained and as a bonus the satanic machine sent out a very annoying high pitched ringing sound for the next two hours. We couldn't pull the plug because the electric cable of the set went through the wall into the owners apartment. Don't go there unless you're young and just-married enough to withstand the fiendish attacks on your sanity that the locals have in store for the tourists.... Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Hans Durstling > Verzonden: vrijdag 30 november 2007 12:59 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors; Rock Currier > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rough places to stay > > Rock - > > I for one would be delighted if you would post it. It's one > of the best mineral travel stories I've ever read. > > Cheers, > Hans Durstling > Moncton, Canada - now with a website in (eternal) progress: > http://www.virtualfundy.com/VirtualFundyDIY.html > > > On 30-Nov-07, at 6:09 AM, Rock Currier wrote: > > > Some years ago I wrote an article for the Mineralogical > Record called > > "The Bolivian Death Switch" which describes one trip I took > to Bolivia > > with a friend. It describes among other things the accommodations > > including the peculiar on demand hot water systems that they often > > employ in showers in that country. You can get vicious electrical > > shocks from them if you are not carefull. I could post the article, > > minus the pictures on this chat group, but it is a lot of stuff to > > read and I don't know if that would be welcome or not. > > > > Rock > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From pmodreski at aol.com Fri Nov 30 09:47:41 2007 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Nov 30 09:47:50 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: uranium glass and vaseline glass Message-ID: <8CA01903D269857-1380-159F@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> For those who are still interested in this... Axel and I have had a few conversations offline about the uranium glass.? For a start, here is a link to paste into your web browser to see pictures of my uranium glass samples, in room light, sunlight, and long wave ultraviolet light: http://pictures.aol.com/ap/viewShare.do?shareInfo=esv4e%2b9w77lwX7DVolL2UHVHhBoL83tm%2biLxexCVplxWGd%2bBXiXp6w%3d%3d As with the link that Jeanette sent earlier to my desert sunrise, you do not have to "register" in any way, just click on "View Album as Guest".? To my glass pictures I've added two from Axel, of a "vaseline glass" vase in regular and UV light.? As Axel has commented, my glass seems to be significantly deeper colored than most "vaseline glass" that he has seen, such as the object in his photos; presumably, mine has a higher uranium content. I've browsed a few websites, and I've read?that "vaseline glass" was made over the years with a wide range of colors and compositions, so the variation?is not surprising.? Here is a website that discusses this, and in fact, it includes Geiger Counter readings the site author made on each of the glassware objected pictured: http://1st.glassman.com/vaselineglass.html I had written to Axel that I was sure I'd read somewhere that uranium glass has also been used in some application in glassblowing for making chemical laboratory glassware, and indeed, with some searching I did find this info on one website about glassesblowing; it is used for making "graded seals" between different types of glass. http://www.yankeeglassblower.com/glass.html Uranium Glass: This green glass contains a very small amount of Uranium making it slightly radioactive. Its wonderful "wetting" characteristic makes it a good choice for bonding dissimilar glasses in graded seals. A graded seal is a series of short glass tubes with slightly different expansions fused together. You can have Pyrex at one end and quartz at the other, two glasses that could never be directly sealed to each other. Maximum temperature for Uranium Glass is 480C. So perhaps, this might be what my sample of glass had been manufactured for. And finally, I've just used both a Geiger Counter and a Scintillometer to measure the radioactivity of my piece of uranium glass.? (In that "glassman" website given above, by the way, his radioactivity measurements are hard to interpret, because there's no statement of what the background level would be in the counts per second?scale his instrument gave; but he obviously found a large variation between different types of "vaseline" glassware.)? Here's what I get with my piece of uranium glass: Geiger Counter:?? background? 0.02-0.03 mR/hr,?? Glass? 0.21-0.25 mR/hr Scintillometer:??? background 22-26 counts/second (avg. 24),? Glass 28-36 counts/second (avg. 32) As I understand it, a Geiger Counter measures predominantly alpha-particle radiation, whereas a scintillometer measures gamma radiation, so this probably accounts for the difference in comparative readings between the two instruments; the geiger counter reading being about 10 times?background, whereas the scintillometer shows?only about 1/3 above background.? The actual units of the scintillometer reading, counts per second, are a function of the particular instrument (particularly the size of its sodium iodide crystal that responds to the gamma rays) and have no absolute meaning.? The higher amount of alpha radiation registered by the Geiger counter is, I think, what one would expect for?chemically purified?uranium oxide, because alpha particles are emitted directly from uranium decay, whereas most of the gamma radiation produced by natural samples of uranium minerals is from the buildup of shorter half-life daughter elements through the radioactive decay chain (radium, radon, etc.), and these are all removed during the chemical refining and purification of the uranium. I don't think I have any more to add at this moment!? Enjoy the pictures, and keep on rockin', Pete Modreski http://1st.glassman.com/vaselineglass.html I had written to Axel that I was sure I'd read somewhere that uranium glass has also been used in some application in glassblowing for making chemical laboratory glassware, and indeed, with some searching I did find this info on one website about glassesblowing; it is used for making "graded seals" between different types of glass. http://www.yankeeglassblower.com/glass.html Uranium Glass: This green glass contains a very small amount of Uranium making it slightly radioactive. Its wonderful "wetting" characteristic makes it a good choice for bonding dissimilar glasses in graded seals. A graded seal is a series of short glass tubes with slightly different expansions fused together. You can have Pyrex at one end and quartz at the other, two glasses that could never be directly sealed to each other. Maximum temperature for Uranium Glass is 480C. So perhaps, this might be what my sample of glass had been manufactured for. And finally, I've just used both a Geiger Counter and a Scintillometer to measure the radioactivity of my piece of uranium glass.? (In that "glassman" website given above, by the way, his radioactivity measurements are hard to interpret, because there's no statement of what the background level would be in the counts per second?scale his instrument gave; but he obviously found a large variation between different types of "vaseline" glassware.)? Here's what I get with my piece of uranium glass: Geiger Counter:?? background? 0.02-0.03 mR/hr,?? Glass? 0.21-0.25 mR/hr Scintillometer:??? background 22-26 counts/second (avg. 24),? Glass 28-36 counts/second (avg. 32) As I understand it, a Geiger Counter measures predominantly alpha-particle radiation, whereas a scintillometer measures gamma radiation, so this probably accounts for the difference in comparative readings between the two instruments; the geiger counter reading being about 10 times?background, whereas the scintillometer shows?only about 1/3 above background.? The actual units of the scintillometer reading, counts per second, are a function of the particular instrument (particularly the size of its sodium iodide crystal that responds to the gamma rays) and have no absolute meaning.? The higher amount of alpha radiation registered by the Geiger counter is, I think, what one would expect for?chemically purified?uranium oxide, because alpha particles are emitted directly from uranium decay, whereas most of the gamma radiation produced by natural samples of uranium minerals is from the buildup of shorter half-life daughter elements through the radioactive decay chain (radium, radon, etc.), and these are all removed during the chemical refining and purification of the uranium. I don't think I have any more to add at this moment!? Enjoy the pictures, and keep on rockin', Pete Modreski ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Nov 30 09:59:27 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Nov 30 10:09:35 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: uranium glass and vaseline glass In-Reply-To: <8CA01903D269857-1380-159F@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA01903D269857-1380-159F@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Normally a Geiger counter does not measure alpha activity. Alpha particles, which are helium nuclei, are stopped by a sheet of paper. The sensor on a Geiger counter is either thin metal or may have a beta window to allow it to detect beta radiation (electrons). So they are used for gamma and maybe gamma plus beta. You need a dedicated alpha meter with a special sensor to pick up alpha. Uranium is mainly a alpha emitter but it does give off some gamma. BK On Nov 30, 2007 12:47 PM, wrote: > For those who are still interested in this... > > Axel and I have had a few conversations offline about the uranium glass.? > For a start, here is a link to paste into your web browser to see pictures > of my uranium glass samples, in room light, sunlight, and long wave > ultraviolet light: > > > > http://pictures.aol.com/ap/viewShare.do?shareInfo=esv4e%2b9w77lwX7DVolL2UHVHhBoL83tm%2biLxexCVplxWGd%2bBXiXp6w%3d%3d > > As with the link that Jeanette sent earlier to my desert sunrise, you do > not have to "register" in any way, just click on "View Album as Guest".? To > my glass pictures I've added two from Axel, of a "vaseline glass" vase in > regular and UV light.? As Axel has commented, my glass seems to be > significantly deeper colored than most "vaseline glass" that he has seen, > such as the object in his photos; presumably, mine has a higher uranium > content. > > I've browsed a few websites, and I've read?that "vaseline glass" was made > over the years with a wide range of colors and compositions, so the > variation?is not surprising.? Here is a website that discusses this, and in > fact, it includes Geiger Counter readings the site author made on each of > the glassware objected pictured: > > http://1st.glassman.com/vaselineglass.html > > > I had written to Axel that I was sure I'd read somewhere that uranium > glass has also been used in some application in glassblowing for making > chemical laboratory glassware, and indeed, with some searching I did find > this info on one website about glassesblowing; it is used for making "graded > seals" between different types of glass. > > > http://www.yankeeglassblower.com/glass.html > Uranium Glass: This green glass contains a very small amount of Uranium > making it slightly radioactive. Its wonderful "wetting" characteristic makes > it a good choice for bonding dissimilar glasses in graded seals. A graded > seal is a series of short glass tubes with slightly different expansions > fused together. You can have Pyrex at one end and quartz at the other, two > glasses that could never be directly sealed to each other. Maximum > temperature for Uranium Glass is 480C. > > So perhaps, this might be what my sample of glass had been manufactured > for. > > And finally, I've just used both a Geiger Counter and a Scintillometer to > measure the radioactivity of my piece of uranium glass.? (In that "glassman" > website given above, by the way, his radioactivity measurements are hard to > interpret, because there's no statement of what the background level would > be in the counts per second?scale his instrument gave; but he obviously > found a large variation between different types of "vaseline" glassware.)? > Here's what I get with my piece of uranium glass: > > Geiger Counter:?? background? 0.02-0.03 mR/hr,?? Glass? 0.21-0.25 mR/hr > Scintillometer:??? background 22-26 counts/second (avg. 24),? Glass 28-36 > counts/second (avg. 32) > > As I understand it, a Geiger Counter measures predominantly alpha-particle > radiation, whereas a scintillometer measures gamma radiation, so this > probably accounts for the difference in comparative readings between the two > instruments; the geiger counter reading being about 10 times?background, > whereas the scintillometer shows?only about 1/3 above background.? The > actual units of the scintillometer reading, counts per second, are a > function of the particular instrument (particularly the size of its sodium > iodide crystal that responds to the gamma rays) and have no absolute > meaning.? The higher amount of alpha radiation registered by the Geiger > counter is, I think, what one would expect for?chemically purified?uranium > oxide, because alpha particles are emitted directly from uranium decay, > whereas most of the gamma radiation produced by natural samples of uranium > minerals is from the buildup of shorter half-life daughter elements through > the radioactive decay chain (radium, rad! > on, etc.), and these are all removed during the chemical refining and > purification of the uranium. > > I don't think I have any more to add at this moment!? Enjoy the pictures, > and keep on rockin', > > Pete Modreski > > > > http://1st.glassman.com/vaselineglass.html > > > I had written to Axel that I was sure I'd read somewhere that uranium > glass has also been used in some application in glassblowing for making > chemical laboratory glassware, and indeed, with some searching I did find > this info on one website about glassesblowing; it is used for making "graded > seals" between different types of glass. > > > http://www.yankeeglassblower.com/glass.html > Uranium Glass: This green glass contains a very small amount of Uranium > making it slightly radioactive. Its wonderful "wetting" characteristic makes > it a good choice for bonding dissimilar glasses in graded seals. A graded > seal is a series of short glass tubes with slightly different expansions > fused together. You can have Pyrex at one end and quartz at the other, two > glasses that could never be directly sealed to each other. Maximum > temperature for Uranium Glass is 480C. > > So perhaps, this might be what my sample of glass had been manufactured > for. > > And finally, I've just used both a Geiger Counter and a Scintillometer to > measure the radioactivity of my piece of uranium glass.? (In that "glassman" > website given above, by the way, his radioactivity measurements are hard to > interpret, because there's no statement of what the background level would > be in the counts per second?scale his instrument gave; but he obviously > found a large variation between different types of "vaseline" glassware.)? > Here's what I get with my piece of uranium glass: > > Geiger Counter:?? background? 0.02-0.03 mR/hr,?? Glass? 0.21-0.25 mR/hr > Scintillometer:??? background 22-26 counts/second (avg. 24),? Glass 28-36 > counts/second (avg. 32) > > As I understand it, a Geiger Counter measures predominantly alpha-particle > radiation, whereas a scintillometer measures gamma radiation, so this > probably accounts for the difference in comparative readings between the two > instruments; the geiger counter reading being about 10 times?background, > whereas the scintillometer shows?only about 1/3 above background.? The > actual units of the scintillometer reading, counts per second, are a > function of the particular instrument (particularly the size of its sodium > iodide crystal that responds to the gamma rays) and have no absolute > meaning.? The higher amount of alpha radiation registered by the Geiger > counter is, I think, what one would expect for?chemically purified?uranium > oxide, because alpha particles are emitted directly from uranium decay, > whereas most of the gamma radiation produced by natural samples of uranium > minerals is from the buildup of shorter half-life daughter elements through > the radioactive decay chain (radium, rad! > on, etc.), and these are all removed during the chemical refining and > purification of the uranium. > > I don't think I have any more to add at this moment!? Enjoy the pictures, > and keep on rockin', > > Pete Modreski > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pmodreski at aol.com Fri Nov 30 10:21:32 2007 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Nov 30 10:21:45 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: uranium glass and vaseline glass In-Reply-To: References: <8CA01903D269857-1380-159F@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA0194F7CD46DF-1380-17DA@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> Well, I'd wondered about this, BK, and I wasn't sure what my Geiger Counter was detecting, and why the two instruments give notably different readings.? Saying that it was alpha radiation made sense, and was also what this paragraph from Wikipedia about Geiger Counters implied: Geiger counters are used to detect radiation, usually alpha and beta radiation, but also other types of radiation as well. The sensor is a Geiger-M?ller tube, an inert gas-filled tube (usually helium, neon or argon with halogens added) that briefly conducts electricity when a particle or photon of radiation temporarily makes the gas conductive. The tube amplifies this conduction by a cascade effect and outputs a current pulse, which is then often displayed by a needle or lamp and/or audible clicks. Modern instruments can report radioactivity over several orders of magnitude. Some Geiger counters can also be used to detect gamma radiation, though sensitivity can be lower for high energy gamma radiation than with certain other types of detector, due to the fact that the density of the gas in the device is usually low, allowing most high energy gamma photons to pass through undetected (lower energy photons are easier to detect, and are better absorbed by the detector. Examples of this are the X-ray Pancake Geiger Tube). A better device for detecting gamma rays is a sodium iodide scintillation counter. Good alpha and beta scintillation counters also exist, but Geiger detectors are still favored as general purpose alpha/beta/gamma portable contamination and dose rate instruments, due to their low cost and robustness. [P.S., I'm getting a little smarter about pasting these things in, I save it as "plain text" first so aol doesn't translate every "hot link" embedded in the Wikipedia paragraph into a bunch of gobbledygood alphanumeric characters.? I still apologize for all the little extra question marks which I'm sure are still popping up here and there.] So, I dunno.? The Geiger Counter I'm using is a Ludlum Instruments Model 2 (for what that's worth), and its probe has a tubular stainless steel shielding cover that one rotates out of the way to expose the protected sensor within, which still looks like some kind of tubular piece of metal. Pete Normally a Geiger counter does not measure alpha activity. Alpha particles, hich are helium nuclei, are stopped by a sheet of paper. The sensor on a eiger counter is either thin metal or may have a beta window to allow it to etect beta radiation (electrons). So they are used for gamma and maybe amma plus beta. You need a dedicated alpha meter with a special sensor to pick up alpha. ranium is mainly a alpha emitter but it does give off some gamma. -----Original Message----- From: J Bryan Kramer To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:59 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: uranium glass and vaseline glass Normally a Geiger counter does not measure alpha activity. Alpha particles, hich are helium nuclei, are stopped by a sheet of paper. The sensor on a eiger counter is either thin metal or may have a beta window to allow it to etect beta radiation (electrons). So they are used for gamma and maybe amma plus beta. You need a dedicated alpha meter with a special sensor to pick up alpha. ranium is mainly a alpha emitter but it does give off some gamma. BK On Nov 30, 2007 12:47 PM, wrote: ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pmodreski at aol.com Fri Nov 30 10:37:46 2007 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Nov 30 10:37:58 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: uranium glass and vaseline glass In-Reply-To: References: <8CA01903D269857-1380-159F@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CA01973C8824ED-1380-18C1@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> P.S. again, BK, I just checked with a fellow here who works on nuclear safety.? He confirmed that my Geiger Counter will NOT detect alpha radiation, that won't get through the metal window.? It should detect a mixture of beta and gamma radiation.? When I use it to test the uranium glass sample, it is probably detecting a mixture of beta and low-energy gamma radiation, neither of which the scintillometer is sensitive to; that would be the reason for the greater reading above background, compared to my scintillometer. Thanks for helping guide me to clarifying this. Pete -----Original Message----- From: J Bryan Kramer To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:59 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: uranium glass and vaseline glass Normally a Geiger counter does not measure alpha activity. Alpha particles, which are helium nuclei, are stopped by a sheet of paper. The sensor on a Geiger counter is either thin metal or may have a beta window to allow it to detect beta radiation (electrons). So they are used for gamma and maybe gamma plus beta. You need a dedicated alpha meter with a special sensor to pick up alpha. Uranium is mainly a alpha emitter but it does give off some gamma. BK On Nov 30, 2007 12:47 PM, wrote: > For those who are still interested in this... ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Fri Nov 30 10:41:00 2007 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Fri Nov 30 10:41:03 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] vaseline glass, marbles, glowing in the dark and trucks Message-ID: <334839.38278.qm@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: West Virginia once had dozens of glass factories, some industrial (Libby-Owens-Ford plant with 12 100 foot stacks) and some art glass, like Fenton and Blenko. Mostly they're closed now by the import trade. The left-behind exotic minerals once used to color the glass present a challenge to the clean-up years later, as you can imagine. Even dumps of broken glass behind the plant containing uranium or whatever are (I think) considered significant enough to require cleanup. The Fiesta ceramics did once use uranium compounds for brilliant colors, but I believe this is no longer the case. When I get home I'll try it out to be sure... I have some really old vaseline glass from my Mom which is pretty reactive to UV and which presents plenty of ionized particles to the counter, and some newer glass which still clicks a little. Mom lived on a small farm outside a small town in the 1930s, and when the gypsies came around with their caravan/carnival, they would set up in my Grandparents' field. As the "landlord's daughter" she seemed to win a ton of cheap iridescent glass junk at the games of skill. Being so cheap to her, she didn't make any effort to protect it, and most broke in the course of being played with. Some years ago she took some to a old-time antique show and got what she regarded as astronomical offers for it, and sold most of it then for 2 or 3 hundred apiece - imagine if she still the dozens or hundreds from all the summer carnivals! So I wound up with only a few pieces, but it all glows in UV and it all makes the counter click! I know there are still marbles being made in WV, and Fenton and Blenko are still in business, but it's a tiny shade of the business that once was. [AD] Anyone willing to let go of a couple of glowing marbles, let me know. I'm still torn between Ford's F-350 Powerstroke and the Dodge with the in-line Cummins - if anyone has a telling detail that would make the difference one way or the other, please pitch in to the conversation. Otherwise I'm probably going to go with the Cummins, just because there are so many Dodge 3500s in Cochise county, AZ. If it's just that the local Dodge dealer out there has a better diesel mechanic, that's OK by me. Take care, and Keep on Rockin' JR in WV --------------------------------- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Fri Nov 30 10:43:58 2007 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Fri Nov 30 10:44:02 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: uranium glass and vaseline glass In-Reply-To: <8CA01973C8824ED-1380-18C1@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CA01903D269857-1380-159F@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> <8CA01973C8824ED-1380-18C1@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Darn I just wrote a long screed on this and you beat me to it, heh. Put a couple sheets of paper between the window and the glass, if the count drops then you are seeing some alpha. BK On Nov 30, 2007 1:37 PM, wrote: > P.S. again, BK, > > I just checked with a fellow here who works on nuclear safety.? He > confirmed that my Geiger Counter will NOT detect alpha radiation, that won't > get through the metal window.? It should detect a mixture of beta and gamma > radiation.? When I use it to test the uranium glass sample, it is probably > detecting a mixture of beta and low-energy gamma radiation, neither of which > the scintillometer is sensitive to; that would be the reason for the greater > reading above background, compared to my scintillometer. > > Thanks for helping guide me to clarifying this. > > Pete > > > -----Original Message----- > From: J Bryan Kramer > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors < > rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> > Sent: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:59 am > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: uranium glass and vaseline glass > > > > Normally a Geiger counter does not measure alpha activity. Alpha > particles, > which are helium nuclei, are stopped by a sheet of paper. The sensor on a > Geiger counter is either thin metal or may have a beta window to allow it > to > detect beta radiation (electrons). So they are used for gamma and maybe > gamma plus beta. > > You need a dedicated alpha meter with a special sensor to pick up alpha. > Uranium is mainly a alpha emitter but it does give off some gamma. > > BK > > On Nov 30, 2007 12:47 PM, wrote: > > > For those who are still interested in this... > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp00050000000003 > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Nov 30 10:04:42 2007 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Nov 30 11:04:41 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: uranium glass and vaseline glass In-Reply-To: References: <8CA01903D269857-1380-159F@webmail-db05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <006f01c8337b$7bb06190$6401a8c0@AxelHP> There are 18 known uranium isotopes, each with its own decay scheme. All of the decay products (bismuth, thorium, lead, protactinium, polonium, you name 'm) have also their own decay products. These other steps can emit alpha radiation or beta radiation and in some cases of internal transition of the nucleus gamma radiation. When you start out with any U isotope you get all the byproducts and therefore all kinds of radiation. So basically having only a beta/gamma detector would be no problem. There are (were?) some cheap Russian Geiger counters being sold with a plug-in alpha detector. It's some time since I saw one but dealers from Russia used to have them when they set up shop at our annual Minerant show in Antwerp. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens J Bryan Kramer > Verzonden: vrijdag 30 november 2007 18:59 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Re: uranium glass and vaseline glass > > Normally a Geiger counter does not measure alpha activity. > Alpha particles, which are helium nuclei, are stopped by a > sheet of paper. The sensor on a Geiger counter is either thin > metal or may have a beta window to allow it to detect beta > radiation (electrons). So they are used for gamma and maybe > gamma plus beta. > > You need a dedicated alpha meter with a special sensor to > pick up alpha. > Uranium is mainly a alpha emitter but it does give off some gamma. > > BK > > On Nov 30, 2007 12:47 PM, wrote: > > > For those who are still interested in this... > > > > Axel and I have had a few conversations offline about the > uranium glass.? > > For a start, here is a link to paste into your web browser to see > > pictures of my uranium glass samples, in room light, sunlight, and > > long wave ultraviolet light: > > > > > > > > > http://pictures.aol.com/ap/viewShare.do?shareInfo=esv4e%2b9w77lwX7DVol > > L2UHVHhBoL83tm%2biLxexCVplxWGd%2bBXiXp6w%3d%3d > > > > As with the link that Jeanette sent earlier to my desert > sunrise, you > > do not have to "register" in any way, just click on "View Album as > > Guest".? To my glass pictures I've added two from Axel, of > a "vaseline > > glass" vase in regular and UV light.? As Axel has > commented, my glass > > seems to be significantly deeper colored than most "vaseline glass" > > that he has seen, such as the object in his photos; > presumably, mine > > has a higher uranium content. > > > > I've browsed a few websites, and I've read?that "vaseline > glass" was > > made over the years with a wide range of colors and > compositions, so > > the variation?is not surprising.? Here is a website that discusses > > this, and in fact, it includes Geiger Counter readings the > site author > > made on each of the glassware objected pictured: > > > > http://1st.glassman.com/vaselineglass.html > > > > > > I had written to Axel that I was sure I'd read somewhere > that uranium > > glass has also been used in some application in glassblowing for > > making chemical laboratory glassware, and indeed, with some > searching > > I did find this info on one website about glassesblowing; > it is used > > for making "graded seals" between different types of glass. > > > > > > http://www.yankeeglassblower.com/glass.html > > Uranium Glass: This green glass contains a very small amount of > > Uranium making it slightly radioactive. Its wonderful "wetting" > > characteristic makes it a good choice for bonding > dissimilar glasses > > in graded seals. A graded seal is a series of short glass > tubes with > > slightly different expansions fused together. You can have Pyrex at > > one end and quartz at the other, two glasses that could never be > > directly sealed to each other. Maximum temperature for > Uranium Glass is 480C. > > > > So perhaps, this might be what my sample of glass had been > > manufactured for. > > > > And finally, I've just used both a Geiger Counter and a > Scintillometer > > to measure the radioactivity of my piece of uranium glass.? > (In that "glassman" > > website given above, by the way, his radioactivity measurements are > > hard to interpret, because there's no statement of what the > background > > level would be in the counts per second?scale his > instrument gave; but > > he obviously found a large variation between different > types of "vaseline" glassware.)? > > Here's what I get with my piece of uranium glass: > > > > Geiger Counter:?? background? 0.02-0.03 mR/hr,?? Glass? 0.21-0.25 > > mR/hr Scintillometer:??? background 22-26 counts/second (avg. 24),? > > Glass 28-36 counts/second (avg. 32) > > > > As I understand it, a Geiger Counter measures predominantly > > alpha-particle radiation, whereas a scintillometer measures gamma > > radiation, so this probably accounts for the difference in > comparative > > readings between the two instruments; the geiger counter > reading being > > about 10 times?background, whereas the scintillometer > shows?only about > > 1/3 above background.? The actual units of the > scintillometer reading, > > counts per second, are a function of the particular instrument > > (particularly the size of its sodium iodide crystal that > responds to > > the gamma rays) and have no absolute meaning.? The higher amount of > > alpha radiation registered by the Geiger counter is, I > think, what one > > would expect for?chemically purified?uranium oxide, because alpha > > particles are emitted directly from uranium decay, whereas > most of the > > gamma radiation produced by natural samples of uranium minerals is > > from the buildup of shorter half-life daughter elements > through the radioactive decay chain (radium, rad! > > on, etc.), and these are all removed during the chemical > refining and > > purification of the uranium. > > > > I don't think I have any more to add at this moment!? Enjoy the > > pictures, and keep on rockin', > > > > Pete Modreski > > > > > > > > http://1st.glassman.com/vaselineglass.html > > > > > > I had written to Axel that I was sure I'd read somewhere > that uranium > > glass has also been used in some application in glassblowing for > > making chemical laboratory glassware, and indeed, with some > searching > > I did find this info on one website about glassesblowing; > it is used > > for making "graded seals" between different types of glass. > > > > > > http://www.yankeeglassblower.com/glass.html > > Uranium Glass: This green glass contains a very small amount of > > Uranium making it slightly radioactive. Its wonderful "wetting" > > characteristic makes it a good choice for bonding > dissimilar glasses > > in graded seals. A graded seal is a series of short glass > tubes with > > slightly different expansions fused together. You can have Pyrex at > > one end and quartz at the other, two glasses that could never be > > directly sealed to each other. Maximum temperature for > Uranium Glass is 480C. > > > > So perhaps, this might be what my sample of glass had been > > manufactured for. > > > > And finally, I've just used both a Geiger Counter and a > Scintillometer > > to measure the radioactivity of my piece of uranium glass.? > (In that "glassman" > > website given above, by the way, his radioactivity measurements are > > hard to interpret, because there's no statement of what the > background > > level would be in the counts per second?scale his > instrument gave; but > > he obviously found a large variation between different > types of "vaseline" glassware.)? > > Here's what I get with my piece of uranium glass: > > > > Geiger Counter:?? background? 0.02-0.03 mR/hr,?? Glass? 0.21-0.25 > > mR/hr Scintillometer:??? background 22-26 counts/second (avg. 24),? > > Glass 28-36 counts/second (avg. 32) > > > > As I understand it, a Geiger Counter measures predominantly > > alpha-particle radiation, whereas a scintillometer measures gamma > > radiation, so this probably accounts for the difference in > comparative > > readings between the two instruments; the geiger counter > reading being > > about 10 times?background, whereas the scintillometer > shows?only about > > 1/3 above background.? The actual units of the > scintillometer reading, > > counts per second, are a function of the particular instrument > > (particularly the size of its sodium iodide crystal that > responds to > > the gamma rays) and have no absolute meaning.? The higher amount of > > alpha radiation registered by the Geiger counter is, I > think, what one > > would expect for?chemically purified?uranium oxide, because alpha > > particles are emitted directly from uranium decay, whereas > most of the > > gamma radiation produced by natural samples of uranium minerals is > > from the buildup of shorter half-life daughter elements > through the radioactive decay chain (radium, rad! > > on, etc.), and these are all removed during the chemical > refining and > > purification of the uranium. > > > > I don't think I have any more to add at this moment!? Enjoy the > > pictures, and keep on rockin', > > > > Pete Modreski > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > __ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > > > http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?nc > > id=aolcmp00050000000003 > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > J Bryan Kramer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From albalmer at att.net Fri Nov 30 11:22:59 2007 From: albalmer at att.net (Al Balmer) Date: Fri Nov 30 11:23:10 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] vaseline glass, marbles, glowing in the dark and trucks In-Reply-To: <334839.38278.qm@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <334839.38278.qm@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0ko0l39lctlbpb1jbo3s4hsn3h88c14es7@4ax.com> On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:41:00 -0800 (PST), "J. R. Hodel" wrote: >I'm still torn between Ford's F-350 Powerstroke and the Dodge with the in-line Cummins - if anyone has a telling detail that would make the difference one way or the other, please pitch in to the conversation. Otherwise I'm probably going to go with the Cummins, just because there are so many Dodge 3500s in Cochise county, AZ. If it's just that the local Dodge dealer out there has a better diesel mechanic, that's OK by me. One place to get informed opinions is the newsgroup rec.outdoors.rv-travel. I know that both these powerplants have been discussed. Probably a Google Groups search would get good information. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Nov 30 11:49:37 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Nov 30 11:49:50 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] vaseline glass, marbles, glowing in the dark and trucks In-Reply-To: <334839.38278.qm@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <334839.38278.qm@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200711301949.lAUJnlra021952@bubbleator.drizzle.com> I love my 2003 Ram 2500 Cummins, wouldn't leave home with out it! (oh and the 27' travel trailer lol). All problems have been "driver errors" so far! Closing in on 100k miles... At 10:41 AM 11/30/2007, you wrote: >Hi: > > >I'm still torn between Ford's F-350 Powerstroke and the Dodge with >the in-line Cummins - if anyone has a telling detail that would make >the difference one way or the other, please pitch in to the >conversation. Otherwise I'm probably going to go with the Cummins, >just because there are so many Dodge 3500s in Cochise county, >AZ. If it's just that the local Dodge dealer out there has a better >diesel mechanic, that's OK by me. > >Take care, and Keep on Rockin' >JR in WV > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From kadok at infowest.com Fri Nov 30 13:18:45 2007 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Nov 30 13:18:10 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations In-Reply-To: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> References: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> Message-ID: <002901c83396$979451d0$0200a8c0@kadok> Hi, Jeanette & Glenn -- Enjoyed your Zion story (being a Zion person myself!) -- I'm not surprised about the wind -- but I'm surprised you didn't also get it in the evening. What happens is the old phenomenon of warm air rising. Being a canyon, it is particularly pronounced. So (especially in the hot weather in summer) starting in late afternoon the warm air "rises" by blowing up-canyon. During the night, as the air cools, the cool air (being heavier) "sinks" by moving down-canyon underneath the warmer air. It dies down about the time the sun gets down into the bottom of the canyon. However; Your description of a short blast sounds like something totally different, that I have never experienced here, myself. But I do remember that once, in Australia (during our Great Australian Rockhounds Runabout), we were camped (south of the Rabbit Fence), and we had a wind that seems to have been just like what you described. They saw it coming and told us to get into our tents so the tents wouldn't blow away. Anyhow, glad you enjoyed your night in Zion -- at least most of it! We do have some gorgeous sunrises and sunsets! Margaret >AND...we had a pup tent, we decided to spend >the night in Zion. ----- >Well, >evidently a thick bed of cottonwood tree down, and clothes for pillows >makes >good sleeping because that was one of the more comfortable nights of >camping >we've ever had. At least until just before dawn....I awoke out of a sound >sleep to the sound of distant roaring. I lay there wondering what the heck >it was when the wind hit the tent. Evidently there is something about the >air heating up down in the desert that sends a morning blast of wind up the >canyon. It only blew a few minutes, just long enough to pull the "stakes" >out and blow the tent down on our heads, but the rocks kept it from blowing >away. We crawled out and watched the most incredible dawn as the sun lit >up >the west side of the canyon walls. I grabbed the video camera and got >about >a minute of the sunlight racing down the walls before the battery died.... >Jeanette >and Glenn >> ...weirdest, most primitive (or high-end), most dangerous or coolest >> place that members have camped, boarded or otherwise racked out during >> a rockhound trip. > > > . In the morning I was treated to about the most magnicent > sunrise I'd ever seen; clouds and colors kept changing as the sun moved > up > toward the various hanging clouds and fog banks down low in the valleys > to the > south, and I took "gazilions" of pictures with my digital camera. > > Pete Modreski, Denver CO > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Fri Nov 30 15:17:10 2007 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Fri Nov 30 15:18:01 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations In-Reply-To: <002901c83396$979451d0$0200a8c0@kadok> References: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> <002901c83396$979451d0$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <200711302317.lAUNHLVX003348@bubbleator.drizzle.com> It's a well known phenomenon called katabatic winds. They are caused by air blowing down the sides of the canyon as the highlands cool at dusk, and vice versa at dawn, and I have seen both up- and down-canyon katabatic winds around dusk and dawn, especially when it is much hotter in the canyon and there is no wind. They are always upslope (relative to the canyon sides) in the morning and downslope in the evening. They can be of very short duration in the Deschutes canyon in Oregon; I have seen them last about 3 minutes or so, knock a few tents over then they are gone :) At 01:18 PM 11/30/2007, you wrote: >Hi, Jeanette & Glenn -- >Enjoyed your Zion story (being a Zion person myself!) -- I'm not surprised >about the wind -- but I'm surprised you didn't also get it in the evening. >What happens is the old phenomenon of warm air rising. Being a canyon, it is >particularly pronounced. So (especially in the hot weather in summer) >starting in late afternoon the warm air "rises" by blowing up-canyon. >During the night, as the air cools, the cool air (being heavier) "sinks" by >moving down-canyon underneath the warmer air. It dies down about the time >the sun gets down into the bottom of the canyon. >However; Your description of a short blast sounds like something totally >different, that I have never experienced here, myself. But I do remember >that once, in Australia (during our Great Australian Rockhounds Runabout), >we were camped (south of the Rabbit Fence), and we had a wind that seems to >have been just like what you described. They saw it coming and told us to >get into our tents so the tents wouldn't blow away. >Anyhow, glad you enjoyed your night in Zion -- at least most of it! >We do have some gorgeous sunrises and sunsets! > >Margaret > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From geenet at centurytel.net Fri Nov 30 17:30:19 2007 From: geenet at centurytel.net (Jeanette Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 30 17:30:25 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Accommodations References: <000901c832f1$bb7eb6d0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> <002901c83396$979451d0$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <003501c833b9$bd1addc0$6602a8c0@CMC3101861A> I can't remember any wind that night particularly, but that has been a few years ago. I do remember the wind that morning because you could hear it coming the way you can hear a rainstorm coming thru a forest...very loudly. And I was seriously worried about the tent blowing away with us in it. Quite exciting for us "flatlanders" from down south on our first camping out west. Wish I'd known then what I know about rocks NOW.....we didn't get serious about rockhounding until the kids left home. Back then I brought home rocks just because it was a rock from somewhere I'd been. Now I'm more discriminating about what I lug home, not that you can tell it from my kitchen counter. Jeanette From: "Margaret Malm" > > > Hi, Jeanette & Glenn -- > Enjoyed your Zion story (being a Zion person myself!) -- I'm not surprised > about the wind -- but I'm surprised you didn't also get it in the evening. > What happens is the old phenomenon of warm air rising. Being a canyon, it > is > particularly pronounced. So (especially in the hot weather in summer) > starting in late afternoon the warm air "rises" by blowing up-canyon. > During the night, as the air cools, the cool air (being heavier) "sinks" > by > moving down-canyon underneath the warmer air. It dies down about the time > the sun gets down into the bottom of the canyon. > However; Your description of a short blast sounds like something totally > different, that I have never experienced here, myself. But I do remember > that once, in Australia (during our Great Australian Rockhounds Runabout), > we were camped (south of the Rabbit Fence), and we had a wind that seems > to > have been just like what you described. They saw it coming and told us to > get into our tents so the tents wouldn't blow away. > Anyhow, glad you enjoyed your night in Zion -- at least most of it! > We do have some gorgeous sunrises and sunsets! > > Margaret > From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Fri Nov 30 20:59:19 2007 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Fri Nov 30 20:59:22 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite pics Message-ID: Try this link to pics of a Kryptonite marble in different lighting. http://pawpawtiger.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!156E2AA3FBAB93F3!712/ Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate.? Join in. www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Pmodreski at aol.com Fri Nov 30 21:03:05 2007 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Nov 30 21:03:18 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] Kryptonite pics Message-ID: In a message dated 11/30/2007 9:59:46 PM Mountain Standard Time, pawpawtiger@hotmail.com writes: http://pawpawtiger.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!156E2AA3FBAB93F3!712/ Thanks for the pictures, Glenn. Your marbles look like similar material to my glass. Pete **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From litleval at ruralnetwork.net Fri Nov 30 23:45:36 2007 From: litleval at ruralnetwork.net (Wayne Rasmussen) Date: Fri Nov 30 23:45:47 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] vaseline glass, marbles, glowing in the dark and trucks References: <334839.38278.qm@web56314.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004d01c833ee$2b2fb900$6e5fe842@Titans> JR, I have a new F-250, big diesel ect, it does a great job on a down hill run with the motor and transmission holding back heavy loads.....that Cummins motor however is the best diesel no doubt about it..you may want to test the two against one another to see which one fits you the best. Good luck. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" To: Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 11:41 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] vaseline glass, marbles, glowing in the dark and trucks > Hi: > > West Virginia once had dozens of glass factories, some industrial > (Libby-Owens-Ford plant with 12 100 foot stacks) and some art glass, like > Fenton and Blenko. Mostly they're closed now by the import trade. The > left-behind exotic minerals once used to color the glass present a > challenge to the clean-up years later, as you can imagine. Even dumps of > broken glass behind the plant containing uranium or whatever are (I think) > considered significant enough to require cleanup. > > The Fiesta ceramics did once use uranium compounds for brilliant colors, > but I believe this is no longer the case. When I get home I'll try it out > to be sure... I have some really old vaseline glass from my Mom which is > pretty reactive to UV and which presents plenty of ionized particles to > the counter, and some newer glass which still clicks a little. > > Mom lived on a small farm outside a small town in the 1930s, and when the > gypsies came around with their caravan/carnival, they would set up in my > Grandparents' field. As the "landlord's daughter" she seemed to win a ton > of cheap iridescent glass junk at the games of skill. Being so cheap to > her, she didn't make any effort to protect it, and most broke in the > course of being played with. > > Some years ago she took some to a old-time antique show and got what she > regarded as astronomical offers for it, and sold most of it then for 2 or > 3 hundred apiece - imagine if she still the dozens or hundreds from all > the summer carnivals! > > So I wound up with only a few pieces, but it all glows in UV and it all > makes the counter click! I know there are still marbles being made in WV, > and Fenton and Blenko are still in business, but it's a tiny shade of the > business that once was. [AD] Anyone willing to let go of a couple of > glowing marbles, let me know. > > I'm still torn between Ford's F-350 Powerstroke and the Dodge with the > in-line Cummins - if anyone has a telling detail that would make the > difference one way or the other, please pitch in to the conversation. > Otherwise I'm probably going to go with the Cummins, just because there > are so many Dodge 3500s in Cochise county, AZ. If it's just that the > local Dodge dealer out there has a better diesel mechanic, that's OK by > me. > > Take care, and Keep on Rockin' > JR in WV > > > --------------------------------- > Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From WindowsLive at microsoft.com Fri Nov 30 16:02:57 2007 From: WindowsLive at microsoft.com (Windows Live) Date: Sat Dec 1 09:47:43 2007 Subject: [Rockhounds] View Glenn Wimpee's photos on Windows Live Spaces Message-ID: <80492D84A56A4926B562BEE3EAE90204@phx.gbl> Glenn Wimpee wants to share photos with you. View the photos Rocks (7) Check out the photo album I posted on Windows Live. Since the green glass "Kryptonite" marbles have led to such a stir, you might want to see some pics in several light variations. I took these today, 11-30-2007 just before 6PM CST. Glenn Microsoft respects your privacy. To learn more, please read our privacy statement . Microsoft Corporation, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/related multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html image/jpeg image/gif ---