From buff1 at ptd.net Tue Apr 1 05:29:15 2008 From: buff1 at ptd.net (Dennis Buffenmyer) Date: Tue Apr 1 05:41:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] canadian topo's for gps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47F22A9B.1040404@ptd.net> Can anyone tell me of a source for Canadian topo maps for use with gps units, such as, or similar to the DeLorme topo's for the U.S.A? More specifically for Ontario?? Thanks Dennis Buffenmyer From tjokela at execulink.com Tue Apr 1 07:03:53 2008 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Tue Apr 1 07:04:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] canadian topo's for gps References: <47F22A9B.1040404@ptd.net> Message-ID: <001401c89401$38643ab0$6400a8c0@Junior> Check which maps your gps requires, some, like Garmin, seem to allow only one brand. The MapSource Topo Canada is a good map, $150 max, half that if you buy it with a unit. I also have SoftMap Ontario Topo50, which Garmin doesn't accept. http://www.gpscentral.ca/accessories/mapsource.htm is a good place to buy, they ship blazing fast. http://www.radioworld.ca/ in Toronto is where I got my gps unit, they offer package deals so you get the maps cheap, but were out of stock when I ordered so I got the map from Calgary. Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Business: http://www.element51.com Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com Use Google to find a dealer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Buffenmyer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 8:29 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] canadian topo's for gps > Can anyone tell me of a source for Canadian topo maps for use with gps > units, such as, or similar to the DeLorme topo's for the U.S.A? More > specifically for Ontario?? > Thanks > Dennis Buffenmyer > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Tue Apr 1 09:03:20 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Tue Apr 1 09:17:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] canadian topo's for gps In-Reply-To: <47F22A9B.1040404@ptd.net> References: <47F22A9B.1040404@ptd.net> Message-ID: <30440119-EEFE-45A8-B32C-82B82CBD6731@roadrunner.com> Hi Dennis, I'm not familiar with DeLorme's current maps since they decided us Mac users are not worthy of their incredible brilliance, but Garmin makes a TOPO Canada as well as USA. It works well. Like every other electronic map I've seen though, there are areas that are up to date and others that aren't--some areas have roads that are only a couple years old, but other areas are missing good roads and features that are 20 years old or more. Regards, Lanny On Apr 1, 2008, at 5:29 AM, Dennis Buffenmyer wrote: > Can anyone tell me of a source for Canadian topo maps for use with > gps units, such as, or similar to the DeLorme topo's for the U.S.A? > More specifically for Ontario?? > Thanks > Dennis Buffenmyer > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Apr 1 11:16:40 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Apr 1 11:23:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Barium / Iron in iron miner In-Reply-To: <47F17F6E.4060802@verizon.net> References: <200803310100.m2V10C4V028110@bubbleator.drizzle.com><002f01c89319$0ef853c0$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6><47F12672.6080306@verizon.net><001701c89387$108440f0$6400a8c0@TheBlackAdder> <47F17F6E.4060802@verizon.net> Message-ID: <003e01c89424$883a3a30$6501a8c0@AxelHP> Stop! I'm living it again.... Hard white balls... Stuck to the bottom, resisting unlimited numbers of flushes... Too heavy to pass through the siphon... Aaargh... The concept of "specific gravity" hits you with all its gravity... Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens DonH > Verzonden: dinsdag 1 april 2008 1:19 > Aan: Erich Kern; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Barium / Iron in iron miner > > Erich Kern wrote: > > > > > Don H. is right about barium. You haven't lived until > you've had a barium enema prior to a lower GI X-ray exam. > > > I had to drink mine for a upper GI. That was bad enough. I > was wondering if any nice barite specimens were destroyed in > the process if making the drink. (Yes I'd imagine the make > the drink from synthetic barium sulfate, but I'm sure natrual > barite was a part of the process at some point). > > > Don > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From efkern at earthlink.net Tue Apr 1 14:24:50 2008 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Tue Apr 1 14:24:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dallol Volcano / link to photos and info Message-ID: <000801c8943e$d215daf0$6400a8c0@TheBlackAdder> Fw: ******************************************************************* From: Richard Roscoe ******************************************************************* The Dallol page on photovolcanica.com has been updated with information on the geology of the hot springs and history of mining at Dallol. A wide variety of colourful images (mainly from Febr. 2008), including a number of macro photographs of the beautiful salt deposits on and around Dallol mound, have been included. For those interested the page can be found at: http://photovolcanica.com/VolcanoInfo/Dallol/Dallol.html Richard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Tue Apr 1 17:12:37 2008 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Tue Apr 1 17:12:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HP 10" saw Message-ID: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I recently acquired a 10" Highland Park saw. At the best guess, I would say the oil in it had never been changed. It smelled awful and in order to clean it I needed to chip out the bottom with a screwdriver. Now that it is all clean and I am ready to use it, I was wondering what the motor on the front was used for? It turns a rod with threads on it. It also came with a rod, weight of a heavy wire, with a 90 degree angle on one end. Can someome tell me what that is used for and where it goes? Thanks for your help. June ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at mlce.net Tue Apr 1 18:03:39 2008 From: john at mlce.net (John Dach) Date: Tue Apr 1 18:04:05 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HP 10" saw In-Reply-To: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The motor on the front turned the rod which is connected to the rock carriage and pulls the carriage to/thru the saw. Automatic feed! John Dach On Apr 1, 2008, at 5:12 PM, June Young wrote: > I recently acquired a 10" Highland Park saw. At the best guess, I > would say the oil in it had never been changed. It smelled awful > and in order to clean it I needed to chip out the bottom with a > screwdriver. Now that it is all clean and I am ready to use it, I > was wondering what the motor on the front was used for? It turns a > rod with threads on it. It also came with a rod, weight of a > heavy wire, with a 90 degree angle on one end. Can someome tell me > what that is used for and where it goes? > Thanks for your help. > June > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of > Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Apr 1 18:10:54 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Apr 1 18:10:56 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Barium / Iron in iron miner References: Message-ID: <47F2DD1A.7296@Tomaszewski.net> They still only come in two flavors, plaster and chalk. Kreigh Donald Tuttle wrote: > > Pete, > >prepration? > Good spelling, even on April 1, should not be ignored. Tomorrow, if my ankle feels a little better, I'll relate a story from my undergrad days involving a biocasting experiment gone bad that ended up as "Goshdurnite, loc. unknown" in a mineralogy museum display case. > > Barium cocktails might be improved if you substitute a (pearl) onion for the olive... > > Don > > > > > From: Pmodreski@aol.com > > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:53:36 -0400 > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Barium / Iron in iron miner > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > > Don, > > > > Barium cocktails approved by the Friends of Mineralogy all show a little > > sticker which says, "No mineral specimens were harmed in the prepration of this > > product". > > > > (should I have saved this to post on Apr. 1?) > > From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Tue Apr 1 20:15:28 2008 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Tue Apr 1 20:15:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Barium / Iron in iron miner In-Reply-To: <47F2DD1A.7296@Tomaszewski.net> References: <47F2DD1A.7296@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Kreigh, et al: At my last upper G.I., the barium 'shake' came in Pepto-mint and/or vanilla bean flavor with a extra large straw to suck the concoction down as fast as possible. Still tasted like chalk tray sweepings on a blackboard eraser with all the dusty appeal of what comes out of the rear end of an old Electrolux. A couple years ago I purchased a box of chalk in a small district town for a remote mountain school in Lesotho--the chalk was packed in sawdust in a wooden box with a sliding lid marked "100 Chalks, Dustless! Now with Extra Calcium! No Coloreds." Gave me a moment's pause when I read that.... Ankle still mending just fine this April 1, and thats no joke. Thanks for the repartee. Donald > From: Kreigh@tomaszewski.net > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Barium / Iron in iron miner > Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:10:54 -0500 > > They still only come in two flavors, plaster and chalk. > > Kreigh > > > Donald Tuttle wrote: > > > > Pete, > > >prepration? > > Good spelling, even on April 1, should not be ignored. Tomorrow, if my ankle feels a little better, I'll relate a story from my undergrad days involving a biocasting experiment gone bad that ended up as "Goshdurnite, loc. unknown" in a mineralogy museum display case. > > > > Barium cocktails might be improved if you substitute a (pearl) onion for the olive... > > > > Don > > > > > > > > > From: Pmodreski@aol.com > > > Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:53:36 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Barium / Iron in iron miner > > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > > > > > Don, > > > > > > Barium cocktails approved by the Friends of Mineralogy all show a little > > > sticker which says, "No mineral specimens were harmed in the prepration of this > > > product". > > > > > > (should I have saved this to post on Apr. 1?) > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_getintouch_042008 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From smtravis at plateautel.net Tue Apr 1 20:29:19 2008 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (steve travis) Date: Tue Apr 1 20:29:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HP 10" saw References: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <022b01c89471$bd00a310$d59f324a@marilyn> If you want to before you put oil back in the saw, you can turn it on and watch the feed work and make sure it is working well i.e. the vise is moving forward. Less messy without oil on the blade. It, the feed rod, turns a bronze gear that turns the threaded rod attached to the vise that actually pushes the rock vise into the blade to automatically feed the rock throught the cutting cycle. My guess on the wire is it was used to insert into the oil drain port in front on bottom to get the sludge (oil and dirt) to flow through the small pipe to empty the used oul and sludge for cleaning. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "June Young" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:12 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] HP 10" saw >I recently acquired a 10" Highland Park saw. At the best guess, I would >say the oil in it had never been changed. It smelled awful and in order to >clean it I needed to chip out the bottom with a screwdriver. Now that it >is all clean and I am ready to use it, I was wondering what the motor on >the front was used for? It turns a rod with threads on it. It also came >with a rod, weight of a heavy wire, with a 90 degree angle on one end. Can >someome tell me what that is used for and where it goes? > Thanks for your help. > June > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster > Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Rocks4u at prodigy.net Tue Apr 1 21:14:21 2008 From: Rocks4u at prodigy.net (Wes Lingerfelt) Date: Tue Apr 1 21:14:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HP 10" saw In-Reply-To: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <340D70DAE21A45B3B971344771B47436@WesLingerfelPC> The wire is used under the rock vise as a slide base. Insert the 90 degree bend into the table top through the hole and run the rock vise back and forth on it. This is a standard device on certain models of this saw. Some models had a 90 degree bend on both ends to insert into the table top under the vice. Some had a hole on the edge and a hole in the top just big enough for the wire to be inserted. Check it out. Wes ----- Original Message ----- From: "June Young" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 5:12 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] HP 10" saw >I recently acquired a 10" Highland Park saw. At the best guess, I would >say the oil in it had never been changed. It smelled awful and in order to >clean it I needed to chip out the bottom with a screwdriver. Now that it >is all clean and I am ready to use it, I was wondering what the motor on >the front was used for? It turns a rod with threads on it. It also came >with a rod, weight of a heavy wire, with a 90 degree angle on one end. Can >someome tell me what that is used for and where it goes? > Thanks for your help. > June > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster > Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocknlight at aol.com Wed Apr 2 01:26:26 2008 From: rocknlight at aol.com (rocknlight@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 2 01:27:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL In-Reply-To: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CA62B260A33D1B-10EC-51@webmail-nc01.sysops.aol.com> Now all you need is some non smelling or nice smelling oil - Go to wallmart and pick up a gallon of baby oil - Which is simply food grade mineral oil.. When and if the oil starts to get dirty and or?thicker / sludgy, just dump it out and pour some fresh baby oil in the tank - Happy Cutting -----Original Message----- From: June Young To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 5:12 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] HP 10" saw I recently acquired a 10" Highland Park saw. At the best guess, I would say the oil in it had never been changed. It smelled awful and in order to clean it I needed to chip out the bottom with a screwdriver. Now that it is all clean and I am ready to use it, I was wondering what the motor on the front was used for? It turns a rod with threads on it. It also came with a rod, weight of a heavy wire, with a 90 degree angle on one end. Can someome tell me what that is used for and where it goes? Thanks for your help. June ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lavenderfish at cox.net Wed Apr 2 05:01:06 2008 From: lavenderfish at cox.net (Carol Carter-Wientjes) Date: Wed Apr 2 05:01:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL References: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CA62B260A33D1B-10EC-51@webmail-nc01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <096801c894b9$3b7f53c0$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> When I change the (mineral) oil in my 10" Raytech, I pour the used oil into a large plastic container and cap the lid. After several days the sediment in the oil will settle to the bottom of the container. Once that happens, you can pour off the recycled oil back into your saw. May also need to add a little fresh oil to bring it up to the right level. This method has worked great for me! Hope that'll help, CaroL ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL > Now all you need is some non smelling or nice smelling oil - > > Go to wallmart and pick up a gallon of baby oil - Which is simply food > grade mineral oil.. > > When and if the oil starts to get dirty and or?thicker / sludgy, just dump > it out and pour some fresh baby oil in the tank - > > Happy Cutting > > From hugheslapidary at comcast.net Wed Apr 2 12:47:55 2008 From: hugheslapidary at comcast.net (hugheslapidary) Date: Wed Apr 2 12:42:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL References: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CA62B260A33D1B-10EC-51@webmail-nc01.sysops.aol.com> <096801c894b9$3b7f53c0$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Message-ID: <93B4169F9E3C44B4BBB36888E68B1704@dad> I take several paper sacks and put them inside each other, and then I put the paper sacks in a smaller bucket that fits into a 5 gallon plastic bucket cut some holes in the bottom of the smaller bucket make them real small you want the oil to seep thru the sacks into the top bucket and then into the bottom bucket. Don't poke any holes in the paper sacks the oil will seep thru the paper all by itself. Then I poor my old oil in the paper bags. It slowly seeps thru the paper into the buckets. The oil comes out real clean I then reuse that oil. Throw the left over sludge away that is left behind in the paper sacks and your good to go. Its one of many methods I have heard of. The down side of this process is, it can take weeks or months to complete and to get all that oil out of the sludge. I also stir it once and awhile seems to help speed it up. Some day I will build a baffle system with a pump so I don't have to clean the saws out but once in a blue moon. Brian -------------------------------------------------- From: "Carol Carter-Wientjes" Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 5:01 AM To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL > When I change the (mineral) oil in my 10" Raytech, I pour the used oil > into a large plastic container and cap the lid. After several days the > sediment in the oil will settle to the bottom of the container. Once that > happens, you can pour off the recycled oil back into your saw. May also > need to add a little fresh oil to bring it up to the right level. This > method has worked great for me! > > Hope that'll help, CaroL > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 3:26 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL > > >> Now all you need is some non smelling or nice smelling oil - >> >> Go to wallmart and pick up a gallon of baby oil - Which is simply food >> grade mineral oil.. >> >> When and if the oil starts to get dirty and or?thicker / sludgy, just >> dump it out and pour some fresh baby oil in the tank - >> >> Happy Cutting >> >> > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca Wed Apr 2 12:59:25 2008 From: kaydavis at estrie.qc.ca (Kay Davis) Date: Wed Apr 2 13:02:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL In-Reply-To: <93B4169F9E3C44B4BBB36888E68B1704@dad> References: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CA62B260A33D1B-10EC-51@webmail-nc01.sysops.aol.com><096801c894b9$3b7f53c0$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> <93B4169F9E3C44B4BBB36888E68B1704@dad> Message-ID: <006901c894fc$0f95e3d0$853ba8c0@D8YF2G81> All of the ideas for filtering old oil are good, but in Carol's situation, given that it is mystery oil in the saw, I would clean it all out and dispose of the oil as well as completely cleaning out the sump. There is no point in cleaning the old oil as the last thing I would want to mix that and contaminate new oil with whatever stuff is in it. At the same time Carol I would inspect for any rust and if needed wire brush it and repaint where it is rusted. Now is also a good time to check the bearings as well in the unit. Kay From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Apr 2 14:00:41 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Apr 2 13:02:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL In-Reply-To: <096801c894b9$3b7f53c0$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> References: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CA62B260A33D1B-10EC-51@webmail-nc01.sysops.aol.com> <096801c894b9$3b7f53c0$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Message-ID: <47F3F3F9.7050906@arczip.com> On the subject of oil in a 10 inch saw: Exactly how much oil should be in the case? Just to cover the bottom of the blade? a half inch up the blade? Something else? Thanks very much! Chuck Baran Carol Carter-Wientjes wrote: > When I change the (mineral) oil in my 10" Raytech, I pour the used oil > into a large plastic container and cap the lid. After several days the > sediment in the oil will settle to the bottom of the container. Once > that happens, you can pour off the recycled oil back into your saw. > May also need to add a little fresh oil to bring it up to the right > level. This method has worked great for me! > > Hope that'll help, CaroL > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 3:26 AM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL > > >> Now all you need is some non smelling or nice smelling oil - >> >> Go to wallmart and pick up a gallon of baby oil - Which is simply >> food grade mineral oil.. >> >> When and if the oil starts to get dirty and or?thicker / sludgy, just >> dump it out and pour some fresh baby oil in the tank - >> >> Happy Cutting >> >> > From lavenderfish at cox.net Wed Apr 2 16:41:20 2008 From: lavenderfish at cox.net (Carol Carter-Wientjes) Date: Wed Apr 2 16:41:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL References: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CA62B260A33D1B-10EC-51@webmail-nc01.sysops.aol.com><096801c894b9$3b7f53c0$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> <47F3F3F9.7050906@arczip.com> Message-ID: <099e01c8951b$0e2599e0$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Chuck, Pour enough oil in so that there's about 1-1.5" of the blade sitting in the oil when the saw's off. When you turn the saw on there should be a steady stream that flies off the blade. That's how I do it anyway. If there isn't enough oil in the saw, the blade may make a higher pitched ringing sound while struggling to cut and the rock gets really hot in the process. This is BAD, can really tear up your blade. After you've cut several rocks you'll get to know your saw well enough that you can just listen to it and know whether it's happy or not! Hope this helped, CaroL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL > On the subject of oil in a 10 inch saw: Exactly how much oil should be in > the case? Just to cover the bottom of the blade? a half inch up the > blade? Something else? Thanks very much! > > Chuck Baran > From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Apr 2 17:43:32 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Apr 2 16:45:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL In-Reply-To: <099e01c8951b$0e2599e0$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> References: <857394.93856.qm@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CA62B260A33D1B-10EC-51@webmail-nc01.sysops.aol.com><096801c894b9$3b7f53c0$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> <47F3F3F9.7050906@arczip.com> <099e01c8951b$0e2599e0$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Message-ID: <47F42834.6010201@arczip.com> Carol: Thank you very much. Chuck Carol Carter-Wientjes wrote: > Chuck, > > Pour enough oil in so that there's about 1-1.5" of the blade sitting > in the oil when the saw's off. When you turn the saw on there should > be a steady stream that flies off the blade. That's how I do it > anyway. If there isn't enough oil in the saw, the blade may make a > higher pitched ringing sound while struggling to cut and the rock gets > really hot in the process. This is BAD, can really tear up your blade. > > After you've cut several rocks you'll get to know your saw well enough > that you can just listen to it and know whether it's happy or not! > > Hope this helped, CaroL > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL > > >> On the subject of oil in a 10 inch saw: Exactly how much oil should >> be in the case? Just to cover the bottom of the blade? a half inch >> up the blade? Something else? Thanks very much! >> >> Chuck Baran >> > From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Wed Apr 2 17:41:15 2008 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Wed Apr 2 17:43:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - Message-ID: <693699.70377.qm@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I would like to thank all of you that responded to my 10" HP saw email. I used it today for the first time. All of the information was very good, helpful and informative. Thanks again June ----- Original Message ---- From: Charles Baran To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:43:32 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL Carol: Thank you very much. Chuck Carol Carter-Wientjes wrote: > Chuck, > > Pour enough oil in so that there's about 1-1.5" of the blade sitting > in the oil when the saw's off. When you turn the saw on there should > be a steady stream that flies off the blade. That's how I do it > anyway. If there isn't enough oil in the saw, the blade may make a > higher pitched ringing sound while struggling to cut and the rock gets > really hot in the process. This is BAD, can really tear up your blade. > > After you've cut several rocks you'll get to know your saw well enough > that you can just listen to it and know whether it's happy or not! > > Hope this helped, CaroL > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL > > >> On the subject of oil in a 10 inch saw: Exactly how much oil should >> be in the case? Just to cover the bottom of the blade? a half inch >> up the blade? Something else? Thanks very much! >> >> Chuck Baran >> > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Apr 2 18:53:46 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Apr 2 17:55:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - In-Reply-To: <693699.70377.qm@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <693699.70377.qm@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47F438AA.9080102@arczip.com> One more question about the saw: I know it's bad when you see sparks where the blade is cutting the rock: Why and how do I prevent it? Thanks very much. Chuck June Young wrote: >I would like to thank all of you that responded to my 10" HP saw email. I used it today for the first time. All of the information was very good, helpful and informative. >Thanks again >June > > >----- Original Message ---- >From: Charles Baran >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:43:32 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL > >Carol: Thank you very much. > >Chuck > >Carol Carter-Wientjes wrote: > > > >>Chuck, >> >>Pour enough oil in so that there's about 1-1.5" of the blade sitting >>in the oil when the saw's off. When you turn the saw on there should >>be a steady stream that flies off the blade. That's how I do it >>anyway. If there isn't enough oil in the saw, the blade may make a >>higher pitched ringing sound while struggling to cut and the rock gets >>really hot in the process. This is BAD, can really tear up your blade. >> >>After you've cut several rocks you'll get to know your saw well enough >>that you can just listen to it and know whether it's happy or not! >> >>Hope this helped, CaroL >> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>collectors" >>Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:00 PM >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL >> >> >> >> >>>On the subject of oil in a 10 inch saw: Exactly how much oil should >>>be in the case? Just to cover the bottom of the blade? a half inch >>>up the blade? Something else? Thanks very much! >>> >>>Chuck Baran >>> >>> >>> From jpjunk at mc.net Wed Apr 2 18:09:42 2008 From: jpjunk at mc.net (John Junkroski) Date: Wed Apr 2 18:11:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - In-Reply-To: <47F438AA.9080102@arczip.com> References: <693699.70377.qm@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F438AA.9080102@arczip.com> Message-ID: <1FF399DF-3A4E-4E75-B030-EFF1BF0EB1B5@mc.net> If I may put in my two cents... Once you've started the saw and it begins to do its thing, don't just wander off and ignore it. It is possible for the sample to shift in the vise and jam the blade while it continues to pull against the blade. I did this and put an interesting curve into what was a perfectly good blade and is now very expensive scrap metal. John On April 2, 2008Wednesday, at 8:53 PM, Charles Baran wrote: > One more question about the saw: I know it's bad when you see > sparks where the blade is cutting the rock: Why and how do I > prevent it? Thanks very much. > > Chuck > > June Young wrote: > >> I would like to thank all of you that responded to my 10" HP saw >> email. I used it today for the first time. All of the information >> was very good, helpful and informative. Thanks again >> June >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Charles Baran >> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >> collectors" >> Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:43:32 PM >> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL >> >> Carol: Thank you very much. >> >> Chuck >> >> Carol Carter-Wientjes wrote: >> >> >>> Chuck, >>> >>> Pour enough oil in so that there's about 1-1.5" of the blade >>> sitting in the oil when the saw's off. When you turn the saw on >>> there should be a steady stream that flies off the blade. That's >>> how I do it anyway. If there isn't enough oil in the saw, the >>> blade may make a higher pitched ringing sound while struggling to >>> cut and the rock gets really hot in the process. This is BAD, can >>> really tear up your blade. >>> >>> After you've cut several rocks you'll get to know your saw well >>> enough that you can just listen to it and know whether it's happy >>> or not! >>> >>> Hope this helped, CaroL >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" >>> >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors" >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:00 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL >>> >>> >>> >>>> On the subject of oil in a 10 inch saw: Exactly how much oil >>>> should be in the case? Just to cover the bottom of the blade? >>>> a half inch up the blade? Something else? Thanks very much! >>>> >>>> Chuck Baran >>>> >>>> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > From lavenderfish at cox.net Wed Apr 2 19:43:38 2008 From: lavenderfish at cox.net (Carol Carter-Wientjes) Date: Wed Apr 2 19:43:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - References: <693699.70377.qm@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F438AA.9080102@arczip.com> Message-ID: <003c01c89534$850a9380$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> What are you trying to cut? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - > One more question about the saw: I know it's bad when you see sparks > where the blade is cutting the rock: Why and how do I prevent it? Thanks > very much. > > Chuck > > June Young wrote: > >>I would like to thank all of you that responded to my 10" HP saw email. I >>used it today for the first time. All of the information was very good, >>helpful and informative. Thanks again >>June >> >> >>----- Original Message ---- >>From: Charles Baran >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >>Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:43:32 PM >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL >> >>Carol: Thank you very much. >> >>Chuck >> >>Carol Carter-Wientjes wrote: >> >> >>>Chuck, >>> >>>Pour enough oil in so that there's about 1-1.5" of the blade sitting in >>>the oil when the saw's off. When you turn the saw on there should be a >>>steady stream that flies off the blade. That's how I do it anyway. If >>>there isn't enough oil in the saw, the blade may make a higher pitched >>>ringing sound while struggling to cut and the rock gets really hot in the >>>process. This is BAD, can really tear up your blade. >>> >>>After you've cut several rocks you'll get to know your saw well enough >>>that you can just listen to it and know whether it's happy or not! >>> >>>Hope this helped, CaroL >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" >>>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >>> >>>Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:00 PM >>>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL >>> >>> >>> >>>>On the subject of oil in a 10 inch saw: Exactly how much oil should be >>>>in the case? Just to cover the bottom of the blade? a half inch up the >>>>blade? Something else? Thanks very much! >>>> >>>>Chuck Baran >>>> >>>> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Apr 2 20:04:07 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Apr 2 20:04:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - References: <693699.70377.qm@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F438AA.9080102@arczip.com> Message-ID: <47F448FD.7B28@Tomaszewski.net> Charles, Silica materials produce sparks when cut. I think it is caused by triboluminescence (light from pressure). You can reduce it by slowing down your feed; it is always best to let the diamonds do the work, at their own speed, so your blade lasts longest. Kreigh Charles Baran wrote: > > One more question about the saw: I know it's bad when you see sparks > where the blade is cutting the rock: Why and how do I prevent it? > Thanks very much. > > Chuck > > June Young wrote: > > >I would like to thank all of you that responded to my 10" HP saw email. I used it today for the first time. All of the information was very good, helpful and informative. > >Thanks again > >June > > > > > >----- Original Message ---- > >From: Charles Baran > >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:43:32 PM > >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL > > > >Carol: Thank you very much. > > > >Chuck > > > >Carol Carter-Wientjes wrote: > > > > > > > >>Chuck, > >> > >>Pour enough oil in so that there's about 1-1.5" of the blade sitting > >>in the oil when the saw's off. When you turn the saw on there should > >>be a steady stream that flies off the blade. That's how I do it > >>anyway. If there isn't enough oil in the saw, the blade may make a > >>higher pitched ringing sound while struggling to cut and the rock gets > >>really hot in the process. This is BAD, can really tear up your blade. > >> > >>After you've cut several rocks you'll get to know your saw well enough > >>that you can just listen to it and know whether it's happy or not! > >> > >>Hope this helped, CaroL > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" > >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > >>collectors" > >>Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:00 PM > >>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>On the subject of oil in a 10 inch saw: Exactly how much oil should > >>>be in the case? Just to cover the bottom of the blade? a half inch > >>>up the blade? Something else? Thanks very much! > >>> > >>>Chuck Baran > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From territoones1 at ameritech.net Wed Apr 2 20:36:43 2008 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Wed Apr 2 20:37:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Iron in iron miner In-Reply-To: <002001c8937c$cc9f5140$6501a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <122061.26381.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Axel, Stay home, and stay off your feet. No metal about it! Get well Soon! Teri J --- Axel Emmermann wrote: > > I sit home here recovering from a busted and > surgically > > repaired left ankle, and letting my fingers do > the walking > > in my inbox, playing grammartarian on the Internet > ethers. > > > > If I ingested a box of Wheaties with > finely-divided magnetite > > added as a nutritional supplement, would that make > me more > > attractive to the opposite sex? Orjust go bipolar? > > Calcium is what you need for that ankle! > Too much iron will make you magnetic and that is as > bipolar as it gets. (I'm > told that magnetic monopoles actually exist ;-))) > > Get well soon > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From territoones1 at ameritech.net Wed Apr 2 21:18:03 2008 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Wed Apr 2 21:18:06 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA In-Reply-To: <200803250209.m2P29Hox008825@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <41334.44325.qm@web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Tim, Where is salmon creek? I have a girlfriend in sissonville, is it some place close to her? --- Tim Fisher wrote: > Quite a few people from NARG have been there > already. I prefer to > wait until the water is much lower and the stream is > wadable. I don't > think it has significantly changed. The channel is > so incised that it > would take a Biblical sized flood to leave any major > obstacles. > > At 08:01 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote: > >Can anyone tell me if digging at salmon creek at > this time of year > >is possible, especially after the flooding in the > area this winter. > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donhalterman at verizon.net Wed Apr 2 21:52:16 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Wed Apr 2 21:51:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for John Ebner Message-ID: <47F46280.5060705@verizon.net> Hi all, I am trying to reach John Ebner, the keeper of the international namesake micromount collection. He usually answers e-mails pretty quickly but I haven't heard a response in a few days. I figure some of the east coast members are in regular contact with him. best, Don From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Apr 2 22:55:39 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Apr 2 21:57:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA In-Reply-To: <41334.44325.qm@web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <41334.44325.qm@web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47F4715B.5050705@arczip.com> Are you talking about the Salmon Creek in Clark County, Vancouver Washington? teresa jetter wrote: >Hi Tim, >Where is salmon creek? >I have a girlfriend in sissonville, is it some place >close to her? >--- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > >>Quite a few people from NARG have been there >>already. I prefer to >>wait until the water is much lower and the stream is >>wadable. I don't >>think it has significantly changed. The channel is >>so incised that it >>would take a Biblical sized flood to leave any major >>obstacles. >> >>At 08:01 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote: >> >> >>>Can anyone tell me if digging at salmon creek at >>> >>> >>this time of year >> >> >>>is possible, especially after the flooding in the >>> >>> >>area this winter. >> >>Tim Fisher >>Ore-ROCK-On! >>Email address at http://OreRockOn.com >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage >>Policy: >> >> >> >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Apr 2 22:56:20 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Apr 2 21:57:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - In-Reply-To: <003c01c89534$850a9380$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> References: <693699.70377.qm@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F438AA.9080102@arczip.com> <003c01c89534$850a9380$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> Message-ID: <47F47184.1030303@arczip.com> Agate Carol Carter-Wientjes wrote: > What are you trying to cut? > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors" > Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 8:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - > > >> One more question about the saw: I know it's bad when you see sparks >> where the blade is cutting the rock: Why and how do I prevent it? >> Thanks very much. >> >> Chuck >> >> June Young wrote: >> >>> I would like to thank all of you that responded to my 10" HP saw >>> email. I used it today for the first time. All of the information >>> was very good, helpful and informative. Thanks again >>> June >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Charles Baran >>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>> collectors" >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:43:32 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL >>> >>> Carol: Thank you very much. >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> Carol Carter-Wientjes wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Chuck, >>>> >>>> Pour enough oil in so that there's about 1-1.5" of the blade >>>> sitting in the oil when the saw's off. When you turn the saw on >>>> there should be a steady stream that flies off the blade. That's >>>> how I do it anyway. If there isn't enough oil in the saw, the blade >>>> may make a higher pitched ringing sound while struggling to cut and >>>> the rock gets really hot in the process. This is BAD, can really >>>> tear up your blade. >>>> >>>> After you've cut several rocks you'll get to know your saw well >>>> enough that you can just listen to it and know whether it's happy >>>> or not! >>>> >>>> Hope this helped, CaroL >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" >>>> >>>> To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>>> collectors" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:00 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On the subject of oil in a 10 inch saw: Exactly how much oil >>>>> should be in the case? Just to cover the bottom of the blade? a >>>>> half inch up the blade? Something else? Thanks very much! >>>>> >>>>> Chuck Baran >>>>> >>>>> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > From kcbaran at arczip.com Wed Apr 2 22:57:26 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Wed Apr 2 21:58:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - In-Reply-To: <47F448FD.7B28@Tomaszewski.net> References: <693699.70377.qm@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F438AA.9080102@arczip.com> <47F448FD.7B28@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <47F471C6.7050508@arczip.com> Thanks....clears that up. I really appreciate the help. Chuck Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >Charles, > >Silica materials produce sparks when cut. I think it is caused by >triboluminescence (light from pressure). You can reduce it by slowing >down your feed; it is always best to let the diamonds do the work, at >their own speed, so your blade lasts longest. > >Kreigh > > > >Charles Baran wrote: > > >>One more question about the saw: I know it's bad when you see sparks >>where the blade is cutting the rock: Why and how do I prevent it? >>Thanks very much. >> >>Chuck >> >>June Young wrote: >> >> >> >>>I would like to thank all of you that responded to my 10" HP saw email. I used it today for the first time. All of the information was very good, helpful and informative. >>>Thanks again >>>June >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ---- >>>From: Charles Baran >>>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >>>Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 7:43:32 PM >>>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL >>> >>>Carol: Thank you very much. >>> >>>Chuck >>> >>>Carol Carter-Wientjes wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Chuck, >>>> >>>>Pour enough oil in so that there's about 1-1.5" of the blade sitting >>>>in the oil when the saw's off. When you turn the saw on there should >>>>be a steady stream that flies off the blade. That's how I do it >>>>anyway. If there isn't enough oil in the saw, the blade may make a >>>>higher pitched ringing sound while struggling to cut and the rock gets >>>>really hot in the process. This is BAD, can really tear up your blade. >>>> >>>>After you've cut several rocks you'll get to know your saw well enough >>>>that you can just listen to it and know whether it's happy or not! >>>> >>>>Hope this helped, CaroL >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" >>>>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >>>>collectors" >>>>Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 4:00 PM >>>>Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] H P 10 " Saw - BABY OIL >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>On the subject of oil in a 10 inch saw: Exactly how much oil should >>>>>be in the case? Just to cover the bottom of the blade? a half inch >>>>>up the blade? Something else? Thanks very much! >>>>> >>>>>Chuck Baran >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>Subscription Services: >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >>http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Thu Apr 3 05:44:27 2008 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Thu Apr 3 16:18:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Iron in iron miner In-Reply-To: <122061.26381.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <002001c8937c$cc9f5140$6501a8c0@AxelHP> <122061.26381.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > > Calcium is what you need for that ankle! > > Too much iron will make you magnetic and that is as > > bipolar as it gets. (I'm > > told that magnetic monopoles actually exist ;-))) > > > > Get well soon > > Axel > Axel, > Stay home, and stay off your feet. No metal about it! > Get well Soon! > Teri J Gee, Teri J., I thought I was the one with the busted ankle but now apparently Axtel has one, too? Yes, its calcium, not iron, I need for my recovery--right now I'm staying home trying to figure out how to ingest a box of chalk... Adage: "The iron in an iron miner can be determined by testing his mettle." Donald L. Tuttle _________________________________________________________________ Pack up or back up?use SkyDrive to transfer files or keep extra copies. Learn how. hthttp://www.windowslive.com/skydrive/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_skydrive_packup_042008 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Apr 3 06:27:48 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Apr 3 16:28:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Iron in iron miner In-Reply-To: <122061.26381.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <002001c8937c$cc9f5140$6501a8c0@AxelHP> <122061.26381.qm@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000901c8958e$8294e5b0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> Yo Teri, My feet are all right, it's Donald who's suffering ;-))) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens teresa jetter > Verzonden: donderdag 3 april 2008 4:37 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Iron in iron miner > > Axel, > Stay home, and stay off your feet. No metal about it! > Get well Soon! > Teri J > --- Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > > I sit home here recovering from a busted and > > surgically > > > repaired left ankle, and letting my fingers do > > the walking > > > in my inbox, playing grammartarian on the Internet > > ethers. > > > > > > If I ingested a box of Wheaties with > > finely-divided magnetite > > > added as a nutritional supplement, would that make > > me more > > > attractive to the opposite sex? Orjust go bipolar? > > > > Calcium is what you need for that ankle! > > Too much iron will make you magnetic and that is as bipolar as it > > gets. (I'm told that magnetic monopoles actually exist ;-))) > > > > Get well soon > > Axel > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > > Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From screenflot at comcast.net Thu Apr 3 07:59:19 2008 From: screenflot at comcast.net (gary mangan) Date: Thu Apr 3 16:42:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA References: <41334.44325.qm@web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F4715B.5050705@arczip.com> Message-ID: <001901c8959b$4dbc1360$fcee1618@hsd1.wa.comcast.net> the salmon creek that i refered to is just outside of Toledo WA. Now that you brought it up i have questions about corpolite, how did it keep its form? why is there so much of it ? from its size it must have been a small critter, what kind of critters were they, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA > Are you talking about the Salmon Creek in Clark County, Vancouver > Washington? > > teresa jetter wrote: > > >Hi Tim, > >Where is salmon creek? > >I have a girlfriend in sissonville, is it some place > >close to her? > >--- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > > > > > >>Quite a few people from NARG have been there > >>already. I prefer to > >>wait until the water is much lower and the stream is > >>wadable. I don't > >>think it has significantly changed. The channel is > >>so incised that it > >>would take a Biblical sized flood to leave any major > >>obstacles. > >> > >>At 08:01 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Can anyone tell me if digging at salmon creek at > >>> > >>> > >>this time of year > >> > >> > >>>is possible, especially after the flooding in the > >>> > >>> > >>area this winter. > >> > >>Tim Fisher > >>Ore-ROCK-On! > >>Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>Subscription Services: > >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > >>Policy: > >> > >> > >> > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From screenflot at comcast.net Thu Apr 3 08:12:15 2008 From: screenflot at comcast.net (gary mangan) Date: Thu Apr 3 16:45:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA References: <41334.44325.qm@web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F4715B.5050705@arczip.com> Message-ID: <001f01c8959d$1a652720$fcee1618@hsd1.wa.comcast.net> hey chuck i guess that message should have gone to teresa, and the other questions was for the list ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA > Are you talking about the Salmon Creek in Clark County, Vancouver > Washington? > > teresa jetter wrote: > > >Hi Tim, > >Where is salmon creek? > >I have a girlfriend in sissonville, is it some place > >close to her? > >--- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > > > > > >>Quite a few people from NARG have been there > >>already. I prefer to > >>wait until the water is much lower and the stream is > >>wadable. I don't > >>think it has significantly changed. The channel is > >>so incised that it > >>would take a Biblical sized flood to leave any major > >>obstacles. > >> > >>At 08:01 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Can anyone tell me if digging at salmon creek at > >>> > >>> > >>this time of year > >> > >> > >>>is possible, especially after the flooding in the > >>> > >>> > >>area this winter. > >> > >>Tim Fisher > >>Ore-ROCK-On! > >>Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >>Subscription Services: > >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > >>Policy: > >> > >> > >> > >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From screenflot at comcast.net Thu Apr 3 09:10:17 2008 From: screenflot at comcast.net (gary mangan) Date: Thu Apr 3 16:57:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA Message-ID: <000801c895a5$389cc600$fcee1618@hsd1.wa.comcast.net> the salmon creek i refering to is just outside of Toledo WA. I have some questions about corpolite such as how did it keep its form? why is there so much of it? and judging from its size they were small critters what kind of critters were they? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Thu Apr 3 09:09:55 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Thu Apr 3 16:59:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Microminerals from Sauktown Sales Message-ID: <345472.48874.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The April update to the Sauktown Sales price lists will be posted today. The regular list features specimens from South America and from the Clara Mine in Germany. The Dryer list has material from Mina Ojuela, Mexico, the Juanita Mine in New Mexico, a nice silver from Creede, Colorado, another schmitterite, and more. Jim Daly Sauktown Sales www.sauktown.com orders@sauktown.com --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Thu Apr 3 12:10:10 2008 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Thu Apr 3 18:16:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA In-Reply-To: <47F4715B.5050705@arczip.com> References: <41334.44325.qm@web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F4715B.5050705@arczip.com> Message-ID: The Salmon Creek Tim is talking about is in Washington State. Dawn ---------------------------------------- > Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 21:55:39 -0800 > From: kcbaran@arczip.com > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA > > Are you talking about the Salmon Creek in Clark County, Vancouver > Washington? > > teresa jetter wrote: > > >Hi Tim, > >Where is salmon creek? > >I have a girlfriend in sissonville, is it some place > >close to her? > >--- Tim Fisher wrote: From teyancey at suddenlink.net Thu Apr 3 21:00:17 2008 From: teyancey at suddenlink.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Fri Apr 4 03:55:48 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA In-Reply-To: <001901c8959b$4dbc1360$fcee1618@hsd1.wa.comcast.net> References: <41334.44325.qm@web81704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <47F4715B.5050705@arczip.com> <001901c8959b$4dbc1360$fcee1618@hsd1.wa.comcast.net> Message-ID: It has been enjoyable to watch this exchange of messages, because it is a confirmation of Pete Modreski's comment that when a locality name is mentioned in a message without any indication of state or region, it can be assumed to be refering to a place in the Pacific Northwest states of the U.S. In this case, 10 days passed before the state was identified. In many ways this is a very interesting locality. It is the source of most of the coprolite concretions that are sold in the rock and mineral trade in North America. Large numbers of coprolites have been collected in the area for years. While these are generally well accepted as coprolites, among residents in the Pacific Northwest there has long been controversy about their origin. Many people in the region do not believe in a coprolite origin for them and publications on geology of the area usually debate this issue. Very similar coprolite concretions from other regions (Canada, Madagascar) are accepted as coprolites, but the origin of the Salmon Creek concretions remains contentious. These concretions are formed of the mineral siderite and they do not retain any fabric of the original feces, although the external morphology can be preserved in excellent detail. Many of them are now oxidized to iron oxides and the process of mineral change can create so much alteration in appearance that their origin cannot be determined, contributing to confusion. Also, many that are found in the stream bed of Salmon Creek or in older stream gravels have been rounded by transport. The sediments of the streambanks also contain many concretions of all sizes and it is possible to find virtually a continuum between large, irregular iron oxide concretions and well formed siderite coprolites. The sediments contain large amounts of carbonized wood and the co-occurrence of carbonized wood and siderite appears to be characteristic. Another feature of the site is that it is located a short distance northwest of Mt. St. Helens and the sediments exposed along Salmon Creek contain a lot of volcanic material, including a couple ash layers. Late Miocene in age. Some brief answers to Gary's questions: - The feces were dropped into soft mud on a pond bottom and quickly replaced with siderite. - There were a lot of animals at the site. - Turtles. Tom Yancey >the salmon creek that i refered to is just outside of Toledo WA. Now that >you brought it up i have questions about corpolite, how did it keep its >form? why is there so much of it ? from its size it must have been a small >critter, what kind of critters were they, > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Charles Baran" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 9:55 PM >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA > > >> Are you talking about the Salmon Creek in Clark County, Vancouver >> Washington? >> >> teresa jetter wrote: >> >> >Hi Tim, >> >Where is salmon creek? >> >I have a girlfriend in sissonville, is it some place >> >close to her? >> >--- Tim Fisher wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > >>Quite a few people from NARG have been there >> >>already. I prefer to >> >>wait until the water is much lower and the stream is >> >>wadable. I don't >> >>think it has significantly changed. The channel is >> >>so incised that it >> >>would take a Biblical sized flood to leave any major >> >>obstacles. >> >> >> >>At 08:01 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>Can anyone tell me if digging at salmon creek at >> >>> >> >>> >> >>this time of year >> >> >> >> >> >>>is possible, especially after the flooding in the >> >>> >> >>> >> >>area this winter. >> >> >> >>Tim Fisher >> >>Ore-ROCK-On! >> >>Email address at http://OreRockOn.com >> >> >> >>-- >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> >>Subscription Services: >> >>http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > >>List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage >> >>Policy: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> multipart/alternative >> text/plain (text body -- kept) >> text/html >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- Thomas Yancey From flint...smith at sbcglobal.net Thu Apr 3 21:49:31 2008 From: flint...smith at sbcglobal.net (Flint Smith) Date: Fri Apr 4 04:14:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Dallol Volcano / link to photos and info In-Reply-To: <000801c8943e$d215daf0$6400a8c0@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <926499.42111.qm@web82505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Those are beautiful pictures. Thank you for sharing them. It is strange to see obvious black "rocks" that are actually just halite! Flint Erich Kern wrote: Fw: ******************************************************************* From: Richard Roscoe ******************************************************************* The Dallol page on photovolcanica.com has been updated with information on the geology of the hot springs and history of mining at Dallol. A wide variety of colourful images (mainly from Febr. 2008), including a number of macro photographs of the beautiful salt deposits on and around Dallol mound, have been included. For those interested the page can be found at: http://photovolcanica.com/VolcanoInfo/Dallol/Dallol.html Richard --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Wed Apr 2 04:02:02 2008 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Fri Apr 4 06:53:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Iron in iron mines References: <200804020101.m32119MV032327@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <001301c89641$31079400$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> How many people on in the chat group would direct someone who was looking for some iron to an iron mine? Rock From RicSchager at aol.com Fri Apr 4 12:53:23 2008 From: RicSchager at aol.com (RicSchager@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 4 13:36:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA Message-ID: If really coprolite (feces), under what circumstances would they be remain in such perfect shape and form as they became siderite concretions, but at the very same time no fossil bones, turtle shells, fish, etc. are found associated with these? Rich. In a message dated 4/4/2008 3:56:32 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, teyancey@suddenlink.net writes: It has been enjoyable to watch this exchange of messages, because it is a confirmation of Pete Modreski's comment that when a locality name is mentioned in a message without any indication of state or region, it can be assumed to be refering to a place in the Pacific Northwest states of the U.S. In this case, 10 days passed before the state was identified. In many ways this is a very interesting locality. It is the source of most of the coprolite concretions that are sold in the rock and mineral trade in North America. Large numbers of coprolites have been collected in the area for years. While these are generally well accepted as coprolites, among residents in the Pacific Northwest there has long been controversy about their origin. Many people in the region do not believe in a coprolite origin for them and publications on geology of the area usually debate this issue. Very similar coprolite concretions from other regions (Canada, Madagascar) are accepted as coprolites, but the origin of the Salmon Creek concretions remains contentious. These concretions are formed of the mineral siderite and they do not retain any fabric of the original feces, although the external morphology can be preserved in excellent detail. Many of them are now oxidized to iron oxides and the process of mineral change can create so much alteration in appearance that their origin cannot be determined, contributing to confusion. Also, many that are found in the stream bed of Salmon Creek or in older stream gravels have been rounded by transport. The sediments of the streambanks also contain many concretions of all sizes and it is possible to find virtually a continuum between large, irregular iron oxide concretions and well formed siderite coprolites. The sediments contain large amounts of carbonized wood and the co-occurrence of carbonized wood and siderite appears to be characteristic. Another feature of the site is that it is located a short distance northwest of Mt. St. Helens and the sediments exposed along Salmon Creek contain a lot of volcanic material, including a couple ash layers. Late Miocene in age. Some brief answers to Gary's questions: - The feces were dropped into soft mud on a pond bottom and quickly replaced with siderite. - There were a lot of animals at the site. - Turtles. Tom Yancey **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From teyancey at suddenlink.net Fri Apr 4 16:38:58 2008 From: teyancey at suddenlink.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Fri Apr 4 16:39:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That is a key question and is the reason that the debate continues. In a sediment containing carbonate shell, siderite cements the sediment like any other cementing material, but in sediments with large amounts of organic plant debris, siderite acts as a replacement mineral instead of a cementing mineral. The Salmon Creek strata contain large amounts of wood and there are many layer of peat/lignite in the section. There has to be a series steps in the siderite replacement process, between the complete replacement reaction to the simple cementing action. The famous Mazon Creek concretions are formed of siderite. In those nodules the siderite retains a good outline of the external form of the fossil and sometimes retains phosphatic skeletal material, but not calcium carbonate. All that is needed to preserve the perfect shape and form is very rapid mineralization of the surface of the feces. This is possible. The great fish concretions from Brazil formed very rapidly and in some cases the mineral replacement was so fast the soft tissue of arthropods and fish was replaced with mineral. There are well documented instances in those concretions of muscle fibers in the bodies of fish being replaced by minerals. (phosphatic mineral, not siderite) Tom Yancey >If really coprolite (feces), under what circumstances would they be remain >in such perfect shape and form as they became siderite concretions, >but at the >very same time no fossil bones, turtle shells, fish, etc. are found >associated with these? > >Rich. > -- Thomas Yancey From territoones1 at ameritech.net Fri Apr 4 21:04:15 2008 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Fri Apr 4 21:04:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Iron in iron miner In-Reply-To: <000901c8958e$8294e5b0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <719922.42135.qm@web81703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Donald, get better soon! Smiles --- Axel Emmermann wrote: > Yo Teri, > > My feet are all right, it's Donald who's suffering > ;-))) > > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > Namens teresa jetter > > Verzonden: donderdag 3 april 2008 4:37 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem > > collectors > > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Iron in iron miner > > > > Axel, > > Stay home, and stay off your feet. No metal about > it! > > Get well Soon! > > Teri J > > --- Axel Emmermann > wrote: > > > > > > I sit home here recovering from a busted and > > > surgically > > > > repaired left ankle, and letting my fingers > do > > > the walking > > > > in my inbox, playing grammartarian on the > Internet > > > ethers. > > > > > > > > If I ingested a box of Wheaties with > > > finely-divided magnetite > > > > added as a nutritional supplement, would that > make > > > me more > > > > attractive to the opposite sex? Orjust go > bipolar? > > > > > > Calcium is what you need for that ankle! > > > Too much iron will make you magnetic and that is > as bipolar as it > > > gets. (I'm told that magnetic monopoles actually > exist ;-))) > > > > > > Get well soon > > > Axel > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > > > Policy: > > > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Apr 4 21:13:29 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Apr 4 21:06:08 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] 5th grader finds a mistake at Smithsonian Message-ID: <47F6FAA3.2F95@Tomaszewski.net> A local (to me) 5th grader visited the Smithsonian and found an error in a geological label. He spoke up and it is being corrected. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i_Cp37U0zkleHDqu4WsGnZlky_BgD8VQLHB80 BTW, The long link may wrap. Kreigh From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Sat Apr 5 17:17:14 2008 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Sat Apr 5 17:17:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Iron in iron miner In-Reply-To: <719922.42135.qm@web81703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <000901c8958e$8294e5b0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> <719922.42135.qm@web81703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Axel, Teri, rockhounds of the drizzle, for the verbal repartee and wishes for a speedy recovery. You Rockellers have provided me with much better therapy for a full recovery than my stick-in-the-mud surgeon could provide. I am on the mend, able to stand up on both legs again and take nourishment, and will return to my classes again on Monday. Yah! You guys helped put the starch (if not the iron or the calcium) back in this miner again! Donald L. Tuttle > Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 21:04:15 -0700 > From: territoones1@ameritech.net > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Iron in iron miner > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Donald, get better soon! > Smiles > --- Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > Yo Teri, > > > > My feet are all right, it's Donald who's suffering > > ;-))) > > > > Axel > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] > > Namens teresa jetter > > > Verzonden: donderdag 3 april 2008 4:37 > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > > rock and gem > > > collectors > > > Onderwerp: RE: [Rockhounds] Iron in iron miner > > > > > > Axel, > > > Stay home, and stay off your feet. No metal about > > it! > > > Get well Soon! > > > Teri J > > > --- Axel Emmermann > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I sit home here recovering from a busted and > > > > surgically > > > > > repaired left ankle, and letting my fingers > > do > > > > the walking > > > > > in my inbox, playing grammartarian on the > > Internet > > > > ethers. > > > > > > > > > > If I ingested a box of Wheaties with > > > > finely-divided magnetite > > > > > added as a nutritional supplement, would that > > make > > > > me more > > > > > attractive to the opposite sex? Orjust go > > bipolar? > > > > > > > > Calcium is what you need for that ankle! > > > > Too much iron will make you magnetic and that is > > as bipolar as it > > > > gets. (I'm told that magnetic monopoles actually > > exist ;-))) > > > > > > > > Get well soon > > > > Axel > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > > > > Policy: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > > Policy: > > > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > > Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_getintouch_042008 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockhounds at lists.drizzle.com Sun Apr 6 01:13:18 2008 From: rockhounds at lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sun Apr 6 01:13:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Subject: Can you imagine of being healthyDear rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <20070101064415.5695.qmail@sys3> Our Chemists? presents all medications that you need to recover your health at low price. We work all over the world with clients from America, Europe and Asia. Now you don't have to look for chemists? at your region. We deliver high-quality pills worldwide. Visit our site and get all your needs delivered instantly direct to your home. We are verified by VeriSign and VISA so we provide secure and confidential purchase. http://www.google.com/pagead/iclk?sa=l&ai=cnrwu&num=80102&adurl=http://usallow.com From horstwindisch at absamail.co.za Sun Apr 6 03:14:16 2008 From: horstwindisch at absamail.co.za (Horst Windisch) Date: Sun Apr 6 03:16:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] BACJK FROM VACATION Message-ID: <000301c897cf$3093dbc0$bc4fd0c4@federatiydq01o> HiList, 14 hours ago I returned from an extensive trip of just over 5 000 kilometres (in 19 days) attending the 41st GEMBOREE of the Federation of Southern African Gem and Mineralogical Societies (where I stood down as President of the Federation, a post which I had held over the past 10 years) which was held in Uis, Namibia over the Easter weekend. Then I lead a group of six rockhounds o a collecting trip through the northern parts of Namibia, bringing back a load (over 85 kilos) of self-collected and purchased minerals. Once I have settled down to normal life again, I hope to submit a report to the list. However this may take some time as I am going into hospital on the 21st April for a hip replacement.and I have a big backlog of correspondence and other commitments to catch up on. Regards, Horst --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tam2819 at cox.net Sun Apr 6 15:32:42 2008 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Sun Apr 6 15:34:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fascinating Message-ID: This is a link showing photographic record of a developing Island. Hugs, Terrie > http://www.bentbay.dk/pacific__ocean.htm From therockhunter at hotmail.com Sun Apr 6 17:53:06 2008 From: therockhunter at hotmail.com (B & B) Date: Sun Apr 6 17:53:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Help Please Message-ID: Hello Every one: I have a question. I have a dop pot that is filled with old wax., dust, rock particles. Other than melting it down and pouring the wax out is there an easier way. I would like to clean it out and put fresh dop wax in Thanks for your helpBJ _________________________________________________________________ Try Chicktionary, a game that tests how many words you can form from the letters given. Find this and more puzzles at Live Search Games! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From flint...smith at sbcglobal.net Sun Apr 6 18:14:16 2008 From: flint...smith at sbcglobal.net (Flint Smith) Date: Sun Apr 6 18:18:30 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Help Please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <855342.28012.qm@web82508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> There are many designs of dop pots. I doubt that the wax will pour well in any case. Just plug it in and wait a while. Trap a stick in newspaper and wipe some out. Throw away the paper. Don't get burnt. Repeat for a while, then move on to scraping with the stick. There's the put-it-in-the-freezer trick that removes sticks from stones, but that probably won't work on a pot. B & B wrote: Hello Every one: I have a question. I have a dop pot that is filled with old wax., dust, rock particles. Other than melting it down and pouring the wax out is there an easier way. I would like to clean it out and put fresh dop wax in Thanks for your helpBJ _________________________________________________________________ Try Chicktionary, a game that tests how many words you can form from the letters given. Find this and more puzzles at Live Search Games! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Apr 6 18:34:45 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 6 18:34:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fascinating References: Message-ID: <47F97A20.120B@Tomaszewski.net> Terrie, This was posted to the list back in November of 2006. It was a hot pass-it-on email for a while and became an Urban Legend. The (True) Urban Legend listing tells more of the story at http://www.snopes.com/photos/natural/maiken.asp and has a link to the crew member's blog where it was announced. Thanks for bringing it back. It is worth seeing (again). Kreigh Teresa Masters wrote: > > This is a link showing photographic record of a developing Island. > Hugs, > Terrie > > > http://www.bentbay.dk/pacific__ocean.htm > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sicree at verizon.net Sun Apr 6 19:02:55 2008 From: sicree at verizon.net (Sicree, Andrew, Ph.D.) Date: Sun Apr 6 18:43:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Popular Mineralogy [Ad] In-Reply-To: <200804070118.m371Iucv020559@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: Please pass this information along to mineral club editors or other club officers you might know: For club editors and club presidents: Having trouble getting your newsletter out? Need more material to print? Want something new to keep your members interested? Try the Popular Mineralogy newsletter supplement service. The idea is that, for a 12-month subscription, I provide each month 4-pages of camera-ready newsletter articles that your club or mineral society can use to supplement their newsletter. The supplement is also available electronically as a WORD file or a .rtf file. Clubs can use what they want (one article or all articles) in their newsletter or on their web page. Below is an example of one article that has appeared in Popular Mineralogy. A 12-month subscription is only $69.99 or less than $6 per month (that is only $1.50 per page of original content!) The articles are written by a professional Ph.D. mineralogist (me) and are original and accurate. Please contact me, sending me your postal address, and I'll send you a sample Popular Mineralogy and details about subscribing. Thanks, Andrew Sicree, Ph.D. Professional Mineralogist P. O. Box 10664 State College PA 16805 (814) 867-6263 sicree@verizon.net ------------------------------------------------------ A Different Type of Tiger Shimmering tiger's-eye is a popular semi-precious gemstone. Almost all mineral collectors are familiar with the fibrous, golden-brown material. Most systematic collectors typically have a piece or two with the label "quartz, variety tiger's-eye" in their collections. Museum displays label it with the chemical formula of silica, SiO2. In antiquity, lapidaries prized this stone. Although discovery of abundant sources of tiger's-eye in South Africa in the 1870's sent prices for good material plummeting, it is still highly popular with stone-cutters and kids. Until recently, tiger's-eye was labeled as a pseudomorph after asbestos. After all, with its fibrous appearance, it does look like asbestos. In the standard explanation crocidolite (a variety of the mineral riebeckite which occurs as asbestos, and is found as veins in rocks) was replaced by silica on an atom-for-atom basis so that the original fibrous habit was preserved. But Peter Heaney and Donald Fisher, geoscientists at Pennsylvania State University in State College, PA, re-examined the tiger's-eye story. Using the optical microscope and the transmission electron microscope, they discovered that tiger's-eye is made up of quartz encasing minute crocidolite fibers. In other words, the crocidolite is still present. Observations by Heaney and Fisher indicate that, as cracks in the host rocks opened and widened due to tectonic stresses on the rocks, both quartz and crocidolite were deposited in the veins. Crocidolite and quartz nucleated (i.e., the crystals started to grow) on opposite sides of the fractures and grew toward each other, sealing the fractures and creating the intergrown quartz/crocidolite mixture we call tiger's-eye. The brown color of tiger's-eye appears to be due to the later addition of small crystals of iron oxide minerals (goethite, hematite, etc.?). The zig-zag growth patterns seen in tiger's-eye are due to the reopening of the cracks as the host rocks shifted under tectonic stresses. Shifts in the host rock's orientation lead to a change in the growth direction of the tiger's-eye mixture, thus the kinks or bends seen in most specimens. - copyright 2007 Andrew A. Sicree From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Apr 6 18:59:09 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 6 18:58:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Help Please References: Message-ID: <47F97FD5.3D36@Tomaszewski.net> Recycling dop wax only goes so far. The easy solution is to buy a new dop pot (or recycle some jar lid or small can) and throw the old one away. Just start fresh. ;-} Heating and pouring it out isn't that big a deal, and then the pot is hot and ready for fresh wax. Dop wax was is kinda brittle. Are you comfortable with giving the wax a whack with a hammer and chisel to crack it out of the pot? Big hint -- deep freezing it overnight first makes it more brittle, and often just freezing it breaks it free from the pot. And if you have to hit it, start soft and work up (to minimize damage to the pot). Put the pot in a box of sand to minimize damage. Kreigh B & B wrote: > > Hello Every one: > I have a question. I have a dop pot that is filled with old wax., dust, rock particles. Other than melting it down and pouring the wax out is there an easier way. I would like to clean it out and put fresh dop wax in Thanks for your helpBJ > _________________________________________________________________ > Try Chicktionary, a game that tests how many words you can form from the letters given. Find this and more puzzles at Live Search Games! > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 6 19:38:49 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun Apr 6 19:38:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Help Please In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <587679.89378.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Set the pot on its side and Blow torch the top layer. Assuming the rock chips weren't mixed in while it was melted, the debris should float away and the remaining wax will be clean. Even if you recover the melted wax I should think the lint and dust wouldn't affect its use for dopping. Eman --- B & B wrote: > Hello Every one: > I have a question. I have a dop pot that is filled with old wax., > dust, rock particles. Other than melting it down and pouring the wax > out is there an easier way. I would like to clean it out and put > fresh dop wax in Thanks for your helpBJ From Pmodreski at aol.com Sun Apr 6 21:30:51 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 6 21:30:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] [Ad] online benefit auction for Rocks & Minerals Message-ID: Dear Rockhounds list, I'd like to put in a plug for the annual online auction, via John Veevaert's Trinity Minerals website, being held as a followup to the Tucson Show, the proceeds going to the color page fund of Rocks & Minerals magazine. The 29 specimens up for auction were selected specimens among those donated for this purpose in Tucson, but reserved for the online auction instead of being sold at the Saturday night silent auction there. If interested, you may view the specimens at _http://www.trinityminerals.com/index.htm_ (http://www.trinityminerals.com/index.htm) ; click on Mineral Auctions, then on Special Auction. The auction begins at 6 a.m., April 7, and ends at 6 p.m., April 10 (Pacific Time). [The one that catches my eye most is the symmetrically intergrown quartz crystal "cross" from Hunan, China] Sincerely, Pete Modreski, Denver CO **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From cscrystals2 at verizon.net Mon Apr 7 03:41:40 2008 From: cscrystals2 at verizon.net (Carolyn & Steve Weinberger) Date: Mon Apr 7 03:38:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Need Help Please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Best way to remove the old wax is to plug it in and let it get hot. Then, using either an old teaspoon or a stick wrapped in paper towel or newspaper, scoop out as much of the wax as you can. Use a piece of waxed paper or empty container to dump the wax you remove. When you've scraped out as much of the wax as you can, turn the dop pot off and let it cool. Then take some cotton or paper towel soaked in alcohol and clean up the pot so it's free of all traces of the old wax. C On Apr 6, 2008, at 8:53 PM, B & B wrote: > Hello Every one: > I have a question. I have a dop pot that is filled with old wax., > dust, rock particles. Other than melting it down and pouring the > wax out is there an easier way. I would like to clean it out and > put fresh dop wax in Thanks for your helpBJ > _________________________________________________________________ > Try Chicktionary, a game that tests how many words you can form > from the letters given. Find this and more puzzles at Live Search > Games! > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From hilmarandheidi at telus.net Mon Apr 7 09:16:09 2008 From: hilmarandheidi at telus.net (Hilmar Krocke) Date: Mon Apr 7 09:16:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] HIP REPLACEMENT In-Reply-To: <000301c897cf$3093dbc0$bc4fd0c4@federatiydq01o> References: <000301c897cf$3093dbc0$bc4fd0c4@federatiydq01o> Message-ID: > Then I lead a group of six rockhounds o a collecting trip through > the northern parts of Namibia, bringing back a load (over 85 kilos) > of self-collected and purchased minerals. Once I have settled down > to normal life again, I hope to submit a report to the list. > > However this may take some time as I am going into hospital on the > 21st April for a hip replacement. > Regards, > Horst > ______________________________________________________________________ > _ Hello Horst. Just a few words of encouragement. I had my second hip replacement just four month ago and I am almost back to "normal". The other side had been done 12 years ago. So I speak from experience. My tips : Strengthen your muscles before the operation. Wiggle your toes as soon as you wake up from the anesthetic. Exercise as much as possible afterwards. Do Physiotherapy. Be patient. There is a slow but steady improvement. I left the hospital 48 hrs after the operation. Can you beet my record ? Good luck ! Hilmar Vancouver, BC, CANADA --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rockcurrier at cs.com Tue Apr 8 16:44:23 2008 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Tue Apr 8 16:44:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Coprolites References: <200804070119.m371Iud5020559@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <008a01c899d2$79b86a50$6801a8c0@rock3> At the Tucson show we bought a bunch of 'crorolites' from Madagascar and because we had so many customers ask about what they were, I did a bit of research on the net and the best thing I found written about them was 'A Fresh Look at Sideritic 'Coprolites' by Adolf Seilacher, Cynthia Marshall, H. Catherine Skinner and Takanobu Tsuihiji in the Journal of Paleobiology, Vol 27, No.1 (Winter 2001) pages 7-13. I even paid $12 to down load the article. The authors believe that 'coprolites' are the fosilized remains of the intestinal tracts of dead amimals. The authors observe that fresh animal dropings are commonly pointed at one end only and invite any doubters to watch a dog deficate. They also point out that the striations observed on the 'coprolites' are very much like those one might expect would be fromed by the mussel bands observed in the intesteines of many animals. The authors conclude: 1. On morphological grounds we claim that twisted sideritic 'coprolites' from fluvial deposites of avrious ages are intestinal casts (colonites). In the very special microinvironment of the gut, good contents must have become mineralized immediately after death- presumably by the bacteria already present. 2. Since no other vertebrate remains are preserved in the beds conaining these fossils another diagenic event must have wiped out the phosphatic bones and teeth and transformed the premineralized gut contents into siderite. Groundwater roll-fronts provide a possible mechanism. 3. These preliminary findings call for more systematic excavations and actuopaleontological, sedimentological and geochemical studies of this remarkable taphofacies. Sideric colonites convey an important general message. It is clear that an intestinal cast can form only after death: a rare case indeed compared to the thousands of droppings some indifidual has produced during its life time, Yet, taphonomy is a scinece of the rare cases, because in geological time organismic remains adccumulate not according to orginal numbers, but in proportion to their relative fossilization potentials, where the rare event may become the common occurrence.' Rock From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Apr 8 17:29:21 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 8 17:32:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Coprolites In-Reply-To: <008a01c899d2$79b86a50$6801a8c0@rock3> References: <200804070119.m371Iud5020559@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <008a01c899d2$79b86a50$6801a8c0@rock3> Message-ID: <200804090032.m390WXKN019865@jade.aracnet.com> I and others have talked to Ms. Skinner about the paper. She admits that neither of them have been anywhere near Salmon Creek, WA. Once again, I find it preposterous that anything, including "guts" of vertebrates could be perfectly preserved while the rest of the animal left absolutely no trace. I invite her to watch a dog poop the fresh, un-eroded concretions found in such abundance at Salmon Creek. Said dog would have a very bad feeling in its hindquarters from the almost fractal, sharp edges all over the surface of the concretions as they are present in the Wilkes clay, before they are weathered by the stream. There no concretions that look anything like those in the paper present in the un-eroded clay of the Wilkes Formation. All of their samples were purchased at rock and mineral shows or online. All have been severely weathered by the stream. I liken their paper to the blind men describing the elephant. It simply does not hold water when confronted with the whole picture at Salmon Creek. At 04:44 PM 4/8/2008, you wrote: >At the Tucson show we bought a bunch of 'crorolites' from Madagascar and >because we had so many customers ask about what they were, I did a bit of >research on the net and the best thing I found written about them was 'A >Fresh Look at Sideritic 'Coprolites' by Adolf Seilacher, Cynthia Marshall, >H. Catherine Skinner and Takanobu Tsuihiji in the Journal of Paleobiology, >Vol 27, No.1 (Winter 2001) pages 7-13. I even paid $12 to down load the >article. The authors believe that 'coprolites' are the fosilized remains of >the intestinal tracts of dead amimals. The authors observe that fresh >animal dropings are commonly pointed at one end only and invite any doubters >to watch a dog deficate. They also point out that the striations observed on >the 'coprolites' are very much like those one might expect would be fromed >by the mussel bands observed in the intesteines of many animals. The authors >conclude: > >1. On morphological grounds we claim that twisted sideritic 'coprolites' >from fluvial deposites of avrious ages are intestinal casts (colonites). In >the very special microinvironment of the gut, good contents must have become >mineralized immediately after death- presumably by the bacteria already >present. >2. Since no other vertebrate remains are preserved in the beds conaining >these fossils another diagenic event must have wiped out the phosphatic >bones and teeth and transformed the premineralized gut contents into >siderite. Groundwater roll-fronts provide a possible mechanism. >3. These preliminary findings call for more systematic excavations and >actuopaleontological, sedimentological and geochemical studies of this >remarkable taphofacies. > >Sideric colonites convey an important general message. It is clear that an >intestinal cast can form only after death: a rare case indeed compared to >the thousands of droppings some indifidual has produced during its life >time, Yet, taphonomy is a scinece of the rare cases, because in geological >time organismic remains adccumulate not according to orginal numbers, but in >proportion to their relative fossilization potentials, where the rare event >may become the common occurrence.' > >Rock Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From teyancey at suddenlink.net Tue Apr 8 20:20:06 2008 From: teyancey at suddenlink.net (Thomas Yancey) Date: Tue Apr 8 20:20:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Coprolites In-Reply-To: <200804090032.m390WXKN019865@jade.aracnet.com> References: <200804070119.m371Iud5020559@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <008a01c899d2$79b86a50$6801a8c0@rock3> <200804090032.m390WXKN019865@jade.aracnet.com> Message-ID: This comment brings up another feature of the coprolite-shaped concretions at Salmon Creek, Washington that allows argument over origin to continue. The coprolite concretions range in shape and detail from ones with a perfect coprolite morphology to ones that are extensively cracked with deep 'breadcrust' type fractures, wider at the surface anddecreasing width inward. With a little search a complete gradation can be gathered from one type to another. When mineral composition is determined for these two types, the ones with perfect coprolite form are composed of siderite and the ones with deep fractures are composed of iron oxides. Intermediate forms often have outer layers of iron oxide and a core of siderite. Incomplete oxidation. The oxidation of siderite to iron oxides causes an increase in volume and the earliest oxidized layers on the outside are broken into breadcrust fractures as the inner parts oxidize and expand. There is an excellent correlation with degree of oxidation from siderite to iron oxide and quality of fossil. The coprolite concretions from Salmon Creek that I have purchased have a yellowish-brown crust that is soft and iron oxides rub off easily when they are handled. The "sharp edges" are a result of surface weathering and is not related to concretion formation. Tom Yancey >I and others have talked to Ms. Skinner about the paper. She admits >that neither of them have been anywhere near Salmon Creek, WA. Once >again, I find it preposterous that anything, including "guts" of >vertebrates could be perfectly preserved while the rest of the >animal left absolutely no trace. I invite her to watch a dog poop >the fresh, un-eroded concretions found in such abundance at Salmon >Creek. Said dog would have a very bad feeling in its hindquarters >from the almost fractal, sharp edges all over the surface of the >concretions as they are present in the Wilkes clay, before they are >weathered by the stream. There no concretions that look anything >like those in the paper present in the un-eroded clay of the Wilkes >Formation. All of their samples were purchased at rock and mineral >shows or online. All have been severely weathered by the stream. I >liken their paper to the blind men describing the elephant. It >simply does not hold water when confronted with the whole picture at >Salmon Creek. > >At 04:44 PM 4/8/2008, you wrote: >>At the Tucson show we bought a bunch of 'crorolites' from Madagascar and >>because we had so many customers ask about what they were, I did a bit of >>research on the net and the best thing I found written about them was 'A >>Fresh Look at Sideritic 'Coprolites' by Adolf Seilacher, Cynthia Marshall, >>H. Catherine Skinner and Takanobu Tsuihiji in the Journal of Paleobiology, >>Vol 27, No.1 (Winter 2001) pages 7-13. I even paid $12 to down load the >>article. The authors believe that 'coprolites' are the fosilized remains of >>the intestinal tracts of dead amimals. The authors observe that fresh >>animal dropings are commonly pointed at one end only and invite any doubters >>to watch a dog deficate. They also point out that the striations observed on >>the 'coprolites' are very much like those one might expect would be fromed >>by the mussel bands observed in the intesteines of many animals. The authors >>conclude: snip -- Thomas Yancey From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Apr 8 20:51:56 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 8 20:55:46 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Coprolites In-Reply-To: References: <200804070119.m371Iud5020559@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <008a01c899d2$79b86a50$6801a8c0@rock3> <200804090032.m390WXKN019865@jade.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <200804090355.m393t6VR015078@jade.aracnet.com> The fresh, un-eroded concretions are iron oxide, the eroded concretions have been oxidized in the air and in the stream to iron siderite. The explanation is quite simple. Get some concretions from the un-eroded clay in the Wilkes, and from the stream bed. Analyze both. Then you will see that the "poopy" iron siderite nodules are simply eroded forms of the iron oxide nodules. At 08:20 PM 4/8/2008, you wrote: >This comment brings up another feature of the coprolite-shaped >concretions at Salmon Creek, Washington that allows argument over >origin to continue. The coprolite concretions range in shape and >detail from ones with a perfect coprolite morphology to ones that >are extensively cracked with deep 'breadcrust' type fractures, wider >at the surface anddecreasing width inward. With a little search a >complete gradation can be gathered from one type to another. > >When mineral composition is determined for these two types, the ones >with perfect coprolite form are composed of siderite and the ones >with deep fractures are composed of iron oxides. Intermediate forms >often have outer layers of iron oxide and a core of siderite. >Incomplete oxidation. The oxidation of siderite to iron oxides >causes an increase in volume and the earliest oxidized layers on the >outside are broken into breadcrust fractures as the inner parts >oxidize and expand. There is an excellent correlation with degree of >oxidation from siderite to iron oxide and quality of fossil. > >The coprolite concretions from Salmon Creek that I have purchased >have a yellowish-brown crust that is soft and iron oxides rub off >easily when they are handled. > >The "sharp edges" are a result of surface weathering and is not >related to concretion formation. > >Tom Yancey > > > >>I and others have talked to Ms. Skinner about the paper. She admits >>that neither of them have been anywhere near Salmon Creek, WA. Once >>again, I find it preposterous that anything, including "guts" of >>vertebrates could be perfectly preserved while the rest of the >>animal left absolutely no trace. I invite her to watch a dog poop >>the fresh, un-eroded concretions found in such abundance at Salmon >>Creek. Said dog would have a very bad feeling in its hindquarters >>from the almost fractal, sharp edges all over the surface of the >>concretions as they are present in the Wilkes clay, before they are >>weathered by the stream. There no concretions that look anything >>like those in the paper present in the un-eroded clay of the Wilkes >>Formation. All of their samples were purchased at rock and mineral >>shows or online. All have been severely weathered by the stream. I >>liken their paper to the blind men describing the elephant. It >>simply does not hold water when confronted with the whole picture >>at Salmon Creek. >> >>At 04:44 PM 4/8/2008, you wrote: >>>At the Tucson show we bought a bunch of 'crorolites' from Madagascar and >>>because we had so many customers ask about what they were, I did a bit of >>>research on the net and the best thing I found written about them was 'A >>>Fresh Look at Sideritic 'Coprolites' by Adolf Seilacher, Cynthia Marshall, >>>H. Catherine Skinner and Takanobu Tsuihiji in the Journal of Paleobiology, >>>Vol 27, No.1 (Winter 2001) pages 7-13. I even paid $12 to down load the >>>article. The authors believe that 'coprolites' are the fosilized remains of >>>the intestinal tracts of dead amimals. The authors observe that fresh >>>animal dropings are commonly pointed at one end only and invite any doubters >>>to watch a dog deficate. They also point out that the striations observed on >>>the 'coprolites' are very much like those one might expect would be fromed >>>by the mussel bands observed in the intesteines of many animals. The authors >>>conclude: >snip >-- >Thomas Yancey Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Pmodreski at aol.com Tue Apr 8 21:09:57 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 8 21:10:06 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Coprolites Message-ID: In a message dated 4/8/2008 9:56:11 PM Mountain Daylight Time, nospam@orerockon.com writes: The fresh, un-eroded concretions are iron oxide, the eroded concretions have been oxidized in the air and in the stream to iron siderite. The explanation is quite simple. Get some concretions from the un-eroded clay in the Wilkes, and from the stream bed. Analyze both. Then you will see that the "poopy" iron siderite nodules are simply eroded forms of the iron oxide nodules. No, sorry, that can't be it. Siderite (ferrous iron carbonate, FeCO3) oxidizes to limonite, not the other way around. Pete (never been to the locality, but I'm pretty sure that a specimen or two that I've purchased over the years, must be from there) **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Apr 8 21:21:05 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 8 21:24:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Coprolites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200804090424.m394OFgb009512@jade.aracnet.com> I am repeating what was posted by Tom, combined with observations from years of collecting Salmon creek. I have never witnessed, nor have I heard of anyone collecting, any ropy, smooth surfaced nodules in the Wilkes Fm. clay. They are all found in the stream gravels. The un-eroded nodules in the clay are as Tom describes them, lumpy, with a very convoluted, intricate surface. At 09:09 PM 4/8/2008, you wrote: > >In a message dated 4/8/2008 9:56:11 PM Mountain Daylight Time, >nospam@orerockon.com writes: > >The fresh, un-eroded concretions are iron oxide, the eroded >concretions have been oxidized in the air and in the stream to iron >siderite. The explanation is quite simple. Get some concretions from >the un-eroded clay in the Wilkes, and from the stream bed. Analyze >both. Then you will see that the "poopy" iron siderite nodules are >simply eroded forms of the iron oxide nodules. > > > >No, sorry, that can't be it. Siderite (ferrous iron carbonate, FeCO3) >oxidizes to limonite, not the other way around. > >Pete > >(never been to the locality, but I'm pretty sure that a specimen or two that >I've purchased over the years, must be from there) > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Web Site: http://OreRockOn.com From Pmodreski at aol.com Wed Apr 9 06:47:04 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 9 06:50:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral testing guidelines Message-ID: Can someone from the List help me, please? Can you forward (or give a url to a list archive link, if that exists), the summary of the guidelines that were composed and written to the list some X months ago, about "How to make & report basic identification tests on a material before trying to post questions about its identity to the list?" I'd like to share this with someone, and I don't seem to have saved, or know where to relocate, this material that we came up with. Thank you! Pete Modreski **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Apr 9 10:13:14 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Apr 9 10:04:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral testing guidelines References: Message-ID: <47FCF6F3.9C2@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, At the bottom of your message is a link to the list homepage http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html that will take you to the list archives with a couple clicks. Kreigh Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > > Can someone from the List help me, please? Can you forward (or give a url > to a list archive link, if that exists), the summary of the guidelines that > were composed and written to the list some X months ago, about "How to make & > report basic identification tests on a material before trying to post > questions about its identity to the list?" I'd like to share this with someone, and > I don't seem to have saved, or know where to relocate, this material that we > came up with. > > Thank you! > Pete Modreski > > **************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides. > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016) > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Wed Apr 9 10:11:16 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 9 10:11:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral testing guidelines In-Reply-To: <47FCF6F3.9C2@Tomaszewski.net> References: <47FCF6F3.9C2@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <8CA687BDAFBF5D3-E30-1BD1@webmail-nc11.sysops.aol.com> At the bottom of your message is a link to the list homepage http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html that will take you to the list archives with a couple clicks. Thanks, Kreigh... but I'd already trying going to that page to access the list message archive, but it only seems to allow searching for archived messages for the years 2003 and 2004.... Pete -----Original Message----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:13 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral testing guidelines Pete, At the bottom of your message is a link to the list homepage http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html that will take you to the list archives with a couple clicks. Kreigh Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > > Can someone from the List help me, please? Can you forward (or give a url > to a list archive link, if that exists), the summary of the guidelines that > were composed and written to the list some X months ago, about "How to make & > report basic identification tests on a material before trying to post > questions about its identity to the list?" I'd like to share this with someone, and > I don't seem to have saved, or know where to relocate, this material that we > came up with. > > Thank you! > Pete Modreski > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Wed Apr 9 10:49:04 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Wed Apr 9 10:51:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral testing guidelines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47FD0190.3070601@hawaiiantel.net> Hi Pete, I believe you may be thinking of seven emails that were posted 11/13/2006 with the topic Mineral Identification Help. If you can't find them, let me know and I'll try to edit the most helpful stuff and copy it to you. Aloha, Kitty Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > Can someone from the List help me, please? Can you forward (or give a url > to a list archive link, if that exists), the summary of the guidelines that > were composed and written to the list some X months ago, about "How to make & > report basic identification tests on a material before trying to post > questions about its identity to the list?" I'd like to share this with someone, and > I don't seem to have saved, or know where to relocate, this material that we > came up with. > > Thank you! > Pete Modreski > From pmodreski at aol.com Wed Apr 9 11:09:17 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 9 11:09:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral testing guidelines In-Reply-To: <47FD0190.3070601@hawaiiantel.net> References: <47FD0190.3070601@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <8CA6883F54C899F-E30-2256@webmail-nc11.sysops.aol.com> Thanks, Kitty.? Not having any luck finding this yet; I still can't manage to search for anything on the web site archive (beyond year 2004). Pete -----Original Message----- From: Kitty & Bill Heacox To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:49 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral testing guidelines Hi Pete,? ? I believe you may be thinking of seven emails that were posted 11/13/2006 with the topic Mineral Identification Help. If you can't find them, let me know and I'll try to edit the most helpful stuff and copy it to you.? ? Aloha, Kitty? ? Pmodreski@aol.com wrote:? > Can someone from the List help me, please? Can you forward (or give a url > to a list archive link, if that exists), the summary of the guidelines that > were composed and written to the list some X months ago, about "How to make & > report basic identification tests on a material before trying to post > questions about its identity to the list?" I'd like to share this with someone, and > I don't seem to have saved, or know where to relocate, this material that we > came up with.? > > Thank you!? > Pete Modreski? > ? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Apr 9 14:25:54 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Apr 9 14:16:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral testing guidelines References: <47FCF6F3.9C2@Tomaszewski.net> <8CA687BDAFBF5D3-E30-1BD1@webmail-nc11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <47FD3208.6B19@Tomaszewski.net> Pete, There is a link on the search page to the rest of the archives. It talks about archives by date, author, and thread. Kreigh pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > > At the bottom of your message is a link to the list homepage > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > that will take you to the list archives with a couple clicks. > > Thanks, Kreigh... > > but I'd already trying going to that page to access the list message archive, but it only seems to allow searching for archived messages for the years 2003 and 2004.... > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:13 am > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral testing guidelines > > Pete, > > At the bottom of your message is a link to the list homepage > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > that will take you to the list archives with a couple clicks. > > Kreigh > > Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > > > > Can someone from the List help me, please? Can you forward (or give a url > > to a list archive link, if that exists), the summary of the guidelines that > > were composed and written to the list some X months ago, about "How to make & > > report basic identification tests on a material before trying to post > > questions about its identity to the list?" I'd like to share this with > someone, and > > I don't seem to have saved, or know where to relocate, this material that we > > came up with. > > > > Thank you! > > Pete Modreski > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Wed Apr 9 15:07:36 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 9 15:07:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] mineral testing guidelines In-Reply-To: <47FD3208.6B19@Tomaszewski.net> References: <47FCF6F3.9C2@Tomaszewski.net> <8CA687BDAFBF5D3-E30-1BD1@webmail-nc11.sysops.aol.com> <47FD3208.6B19@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <8CA68A540B46327-11CC-1AA@webmail-nc11.sysops.aol.com> Ah, thank you Kreigh, NOW I see how to find it.? As they say... "Duh". When I saw that line on the Rockhounds "message archive" page, that says,? If you can not find what you are looking for, consider looking for it one month at a time, sorted by date, subject, or thread. I thought that was just general advice, pertaining to the search boxes & button above it (that inexplicably only linked to the 2003-2004 archives).? I just didn't realize that line itself was a hot link to click on!? As I said...? "DUH" ! Pete -----Original Message----- From: Kreigh Tomaszewski To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 3:25 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral testing guidelines Pete, There is a link on the search page to the rest of the archives. It talks about archives by date, author, and thread. Kreigh pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > > At the bottom of your message is a link to the list homepage > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > that will take you to the list archives with a couple clicks. > > Thanks, Kreigh... > > but I'd already trying going to that page to access the list message archive, but it only seems to allow searching for archived messages for the years 2003 and 2004.... > > Pete > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Sent: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 11:13 am > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] mineral testing guidelines > > Pete, > > At the bottom of your message is a link to the list homepage > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > that will take you to the list archives with a couple clicks. > > Kreigh > > Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > > > > Can someone from the List help me, please? Can you forward (or give a url > > to a list archive link, if that exists), the summary of the guidelines that > > were composed and written to the list some X months ago, about "How to make & > > report basic identification tests on a material before trying to post > > questions about its identity to the list?" I'd like to share this with > someone, and > > I don't seem to have saved, or know where to relocate, this material that we > > came up with. > > > > Thank you! > > Pete Modreski > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Apr 9 20:03:49 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Apr 9 19:53:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Indian Mounds Rock and Mineral Club Show Starts Tomorrow Message-ID: <47FD810B.47D1@Tomaszewski.net> The Indian Mounds Rock and Mineral Club is pleased to announce its 33rd annual Gem & Mineral Show will be held on April 10, 11, and 12, 2008 at the Rogers Plaza Town Center Mall in Wyoming, Michigan. Free parking and admission from 9:30 am to 9 pm each day. Take US-131 to the 28th Street exit, just south of Grand Rapids, and go west on 28th Street about 1/4 mile to find the mall on the south side of the street. The show takes up most of the mall. We will be holding lapidary demonstrations, exhibits, educational outreach, a bunch of dealers, and a special childrens section. I hope some of you can stop by. Kreigh From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Thu Apr 10 16:46:39 2008 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Thu Apr 10 16:48:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Message-ID: <00a001c89b65$1ef03500$6401a8c0@michael01> test --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Thu Apr 10 17:17:23 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 10 17:17:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <00a001c89b65$1ef03500$6401a8c0@michael01> References: <00a001c89b65$1ef03500$6401a8c0@michael01> Message-ID: <8CA69808CD629C0-DA0-2082@FWM-D25.sysops.aol.com> BOO! -----Original Message----- From: Michael Schmidt To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 7:46 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) test --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Apr 10 20:07:50 2008 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Apr 10 20:10:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Faceting Computer Message-ID: http://www.livescience.com/imageoftheday/siod_080409.html Glenn _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dr00bert at gmail.com Fri Apr 11 04:49:42 2008 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Fri Apr 11 04:49:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Faceting Computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7aac8040804110449r5d617f89ve6631e2d0d7dc484@mail.gmail.com> Here is some more links that provide more information... the LiveScience site didn't provide enough... http://www.fraunhofer.de/fhg/Images/rn4_ready_tcm6-92875.pdf (search for Paul Wild, and that will get you to the section) http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080408102835.htm Drew --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Fri Apr 11 06:56:07 2008 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Fri Apr 11 06:56:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] ideal mineral cabinet References: Message-ID: <004401c89bdb$ce657d80$62b0fea9@TOSHIBA> Hi all. I am considering to design a mineral cabinet from scratch, with separate modules of drawers. In the experience of the group, what should be the ideal footprint of the drawers? The height, obviously depends of the max size of the specimens, thank you. :-) From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Apr 11 07:14:06 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Apr 11 07:13:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Faceting Computer In-Reply-To: <7aac8040804110449r5d617f89ve6631e2d0d7dc484@mail.gmail.com> References: <7aac8040804110449r5d617f89ve6631e2d0d7dc484@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47FF722E.8010904@verizon.net> Drew wrote: > Here is some more links that provide more information... the LiveScience > site didn't provide enough... > > http://www.fraunhofer.de/fhg/Images/rn4_ready_tcm6-92875.pdf (search for > Paul Wild, and that will get you to the section) What I don't understand is how it orients the gem. The quality of the result depends very much upon orienting the material in the proper refractive index directions, but I can't imagine how this system would do that. Don From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Fri Apr 11 07:24:28 2008 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Fri Apr 11 07:26:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Faceting Computer References: <7aac8040804110449r5d617f89ve6631e2d0d7dc484@mail.gmail.com> <47FF722E.8010904@verizon.net> Message-ID: <01cc01c89bdf$c0956e50$6401a8c0@michael01> not to mention selecting areas that are inclusion free ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Faceting Computer > Drew wrote: > >> Here is some more links that provide more information... the LiveScience >> site didn't provide enough... >> >> http://www.fraunhofer.de/fhg/Images/rn4_ready_tcm6-92875.pdf (search for >> Paul Wild, and that will get you to the section) > > > What I don't understand is how it orients the gem. The quality of the > result depends very much upon orienting the material in the proper > refractive index directions, but I can't imagine how this system would do > that. > > Don > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocknate at gmail.com Fri Apr 11 07:38:56 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Fri Apr 11 07:45:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] ideal mineral cabinet In-Reply-To: <004401c89bdb$ce657d80$62b0fea9@TOSHIBA> References: <004401c89bdb$ce657d80$62b0fea9@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: Armando, A couple of years ago I had Steve Reutlinger (Monadnock Mineral and Display) build me a custom mineral cabinet to basic specifications that I laid out. The base unit is 41.5" wide x 23" deep x 33" high and had six 36" wide x 20" deep full-extension sliding drawers (four 4" tall and two 5" tall). The display unit sits on top of the base and measures 40" wide x 12" deep x 41" tall and has four 10" wide glass shelves. The display is illuminated at the top and along each side by halogen lights. Steve did a wonderful job on the cabinet and I am very pleased with it. The full extension drawers are especially useful because they permit you to easily see every specimen that you have placed in them. If it is useful to you I can email you my original concept sketches and photos of the finished cabinet. Good luck with your project! Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Armando Afonso wrote: > Hi all. > I am considering to design a mineral cabinet from scratch, with separate > modules of drawers. > In the experience of the group, what should be the ideal footprint of the > drawers? > The height, obviously depends of the max size of the specimens, thank you. > :-) > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Fri Apr 11 08:19:39 2008 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Fri Apr 11 08:20:06 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] ideal mineral cabinet- photos, plans References: <004401c89bdb$ce657d80$62b0fea9@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <004f01c89be7$81fc85e0$62b0fea9@TOSHIBA> Obviously I would appreciate that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Martin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ideal mineral cabinet > Armando, > A couple of years ago I had Steve Reutlinger (Monadnock Mineral and > Display) > build me a custom mineral cabinet to basic specifications that I laid out. > The base unit is 41.5" wide x 23" deep x 33" high and had six 36" wide x > 20" > deep full-extension sliding drawers (four 4" tall and two 5" tall). The > display unit sits on top of the base and measures 40" wide x 12" deep x > 41" > tall and has four 10" wide glass shelves. The display is illuminated at > the > top and along each side by halogen lights. > > Steve did a wonderful job on the cabinet and I am very pleased with it. > The > full extension drawers are especially useful because they permit you to > easily see every specimen that you have placed in them. If it is useful > to > you I can email you my original concept sketches and photos of the > finished > cabinet. > > Good luck with your project! > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Armando Afonso > wrote: > >> Hi all. >> I am considering to design a mineral cabinet from scratch, with separate >> modules of drawers. >> In the experience of the group, what should be the ideal footprint of the >> drawers? >> The height, obviously depends of the max size of the specimens, thank >> you. >> :-) >> >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Fri Apr 11 08:20:27 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Fri Apr 11 08:20:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] ideal mineral cabinet References: <004401c89bdb$ce657d80$62b0fea9@TOSHIBA> Message-ID: <000401c89be7$92a11500$0200000a@LarryRush> For anyone interested, Steve's e-mail address is: SJRPrime@aol.com He did have a web site, but I can't seem to find it now. An excellent mineral cabinet maker, and a collector, too! Some people manage to combine the best of all worlds!! Larry Rush ===================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nathan Martin" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] ideal mineral cabinet > Armando, > A couple of years ago I had Steve Reutlinger (Monadnock Mineral and > Display) > build me a custom mineral cabinet to basic specifications that I laid out. > The base unit is 41.5" wide x 23" deep x 33" high and had six 36" wide x > 20" > deep full-extension sliding drawers (four 4" tall and two 5" tall). The > display unit sits on top of the base and measures 40" wide x 12" deep x > 41" > tall and has four 10" wide glass shelves. The display is illuminated at > the > top and along each side by halogen lights. > > Steve did a wonderful job on the cabinet and I am very pleased with it. > The > full extension drawers are especially useful because they permit you to > easily see every specimen that you have placed in them. If it is useful > to > you I can email you my original concept sketches and photos of the > finished > cabinet. > > Good luck with your project! > > Nate Martin > Lexington, MA > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Armando Afonso > wrote: > >> Hi all. >> I am considering to design a mineral cabinet from scratch, with separate >> modules of drawers. >> In the experience of the group, what should be the ideal footprint of the >> drawers? >> The height, obviously depends of the max size of the specimens, thank >> you. >> :-) >> >> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Apr 12 04:22:06 2008 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Apr 12 04:23:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Faceting computer References: <200804120103.m3C12o3P027830@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <002a01c89c8f$71f5ce10$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> Don's right, that computer faceting outfit would make a hash out of most natural gem rough. I think the guys that designed it were obviously machine tool guys that didn't know anything much about mineralogy. The system would work great for isotropic stones that were all of uniform color intensity and without flaws, which is so rarely the case with natural gem rough, that it isn't worth talking about. It is however the first step in what may be in a generation or two a system that might be useful in cutting stones. Now they have to work on the hard part, to somehow create a program that is smart enough to know all about cleavage, refractive index, dichroism, dispersion, inclusions, color zoning etc and to be able to take all this and to make reasonable judgements about how to get the most valuable stone out of the rough. Oh, and don't forget the demands of the market place and fashion that influince the kinds of stontes that are in fashion this year. I think this device will start to replace skilled stone cutters about the time they learn to cure the common cold which does not appear to be any time soon. Rock From rockcurrier at cs.com Sat Apr 12 04:58:00 2008 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sat Apr 12 04:58:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ideal Mineral Cabinet References: <200804120103.m3C12o3P027830@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <003101c89c94$75ad1770$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> Armando, I am not sure there is any such thing as an 'ideal' mineral cabinet. I think you first have to define what kind of specimens you want to store in your mineral cabinet and what their size distribution is. Other considerations are the value of the specimens you want to place in your cabinet and the predilections of the person who wants the cabinets. Do you want to make it a set of drawers to hold specimens or do you want a glass display case so that you specimens can be immediately visible, or do you want a combination of both. As for an ideal footprint, it would depend on the space you want to put the cabinet in. If cost is no object, you can hire the best woodworkers and have them build a cabinet to fit whatever space you wish. If you are an institution that is looking to efficiently house their collection you may want to go with one of those track systems where you can roll the cabinets back and fourth on a track to minimize the aisle space between your cabinets. With a system like that you can maximize your storage space. If you want to create a cabinet to sell to mineral collectors you have to make some general assumptions about what the most popular sizes might be. Kieth Williams makes high-end specimen cabinets that cost several thousand dollars each and he has orders enough to keep him busy for many months to come. Do you want to make a set of drawers? What is the size distribution of your specimens? What is their average value? Rock From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Sat Apr 12 07:36:37 2008 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (Sandra B. Gee) Date: Sat Apr 12 07:40:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ideal Mineral Cabinet In-Reply-To: <003101c89c94$75ad1770$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> Message-ID: <624022.22499.qm@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> People tend to talk about display cabinets for cabinet sized specimens. What about display cabinets for miniatures? Sandra --- Rock Currier wrote: > Armando, > > I am not sure there is any such thing as an 'ideal' > mineral cabinet. I think > you first have to define what kind of specimens you > want to store in your > mineral cabinet and what their size distribution is. > Other considerations > are the value of the specimens you want to place in > your cabinet and the > predilections of the person who wants the cabinets. > Do you want to make it a > set of drawers to hold specimens or do you want a > glass display case so that > you specimens can be immediately visible, or do you > want a combination of > both. > > > > As for an ideal footprint, it would depend on the > space you want to put the > cabinet in. If cost is no object, you can hire the > best woodworkers and have > them build a cabinet to fit whatever space you wish. > If you are an > institution that is looking to efficiently house > their collection you may > want to go with one of those track systems where you > can roll the cabinets > back and fourth on a track to minimize the aisle > space between your > cabinets. With a system like that you can maximize > your storage space. If > you want to create a cabinet to sell to mineral > collectors you have to make > some general assumptions about what the most popular > sizes might be. Kieth > Williams makes high-end specimen cabinets that cost > several thousand dollars > each and he has orders enough to keep him busy for > many months to come. > > > > Do you want to make a set of drawers? What is the > size distribution of your > specimens? What is their average value? > > Rock > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From bilmcc1948 at msn.com Sat Apr 12 07:53:04 2008 From: bilmcc1948 at msn.com (Bill McCullough) Date: Sat Apr 12 07:53:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ideal Mineral Cabinet In-Reply-To: <624022.22499.qm@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <003101c89c94$75ad1770$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> <624022.22499.qm@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I put plastic storage cabinets for small parts on the wall. These are available from Sears or Lowe's and probable many other sources. They come in many configurations. I have three mounted over the sofa. I can display a dozen or twenty on the tops of these. I rotate the displayed specimens. Small collection -- simple solution. --Bill McCullough -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Sandra B. Gee Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 10:37 AM To: Rock Currier; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ideal Mineral Cabinet People tend to talk about display cabinets for cabinet sized specimens. What about display cabinets for miniatures? Sandra --- Rock Currier wrote: > Armando, > > I am not sure there is any such thing as an 'ideal' > mineral cabinet. I think > you first have to define what kind of specimens you > want to store in your > mineral cabinet and what their size distribution is. > Other considerations > are the value of the specimens you want to place in > your cabinet and the > predilections of the person who wants the cabinets. > Do you want to make it a > set of drawers to hold specimens or do you want a > glass display case so that > you specimens can be immediately visible, or do you > want a combination of > both. > > > > As for an ideal footprint, it would depend on the > space you want to put the > cabinet in. If cost is no object, you can hire the > best woodworkers and have > them build a cabinet to fit whatever space you wish. > If you are an > institution that is looking to efficiently house > their collection you may > want to go with one of those track systems where you > can roll the cabinets > back and fourth on a track to minimize the aisle > space between your > cabinets. With a system like that you can maximize > your storage space. If > you want to create a cabinet to sell to mineral > collectors you have to make > some general assumptions about what the most popular > sizes might be. Kieth > Williams makes high-end specimen cabinets that cost > several thousand dollars > each and he has orders enough to keep him busy for > many months to come. > > > > Do you want to make a set of drawers? What is the > size distribution of your > specimens? What is their average value? > > Rock > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Sat Apr 12 08:15:16 2008 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Sat Apr 12 08:15:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ideal Mineral Cabinet In-Reply-To: <003101c89c94$75ad1770$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> References: <200804120103.m3C12o3P027830@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <003101c89c94$75ad1770$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> Message-ID: <6F8A09B28B2E4FBC810BD011FAF96C2E@ArmandoPC> >From time to time, I focus a specific goup of minerals. During the last 35 years, I assembled diferent sub-collections, ranging from rock-forming minerals, preferencially cristalized, but not necessarilly beautifull, to gem crystals. Topographic suites are there, too. I am sure that the typical millionaire instant collector (like those featured frequently on MR) would never appreciate my work. I never let an interesting specimen on site, just because it doesn?t fit a perky box, or because it needs a microscope to observe. The result is that now, I have cabinets and boxes everywhere, and some order is needed. I am trying to organize a (more or less) systematic collection mainly in sandard boxes, but it seems to me inevitable that larger specimens will be stored side by side with the small ones. If I got a great 12" Wollastonite, I will not look for an inferior one to substitute it. Garanteed. In other cases, I have large matrix specimens that, for didatic purposes, I want to complement with smaller single crystals. No, I will not exchange all that for a collection of 200 beauties. I like the uggly ones, too. As you see, I need a flexible storage system, and it is why I am looking for some input from the list. Armando ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rock Currier" To: Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 12:58 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Ideal Mineral Cabinet > Armando, > > I am not sure there is any such thing as an 'ideal' mineral cabinet. I > think you first have to define what kind of specimens you want to store in > your mineral cabinet and what their size distribution is. Other > considerations are the value of the specimens you want to place in your > cabinet and the predilections of the person who wants the cabinets. Do you > want to make it a set of drawers to hold specimens or do you want a glass > display case so that you specimens can be immediately visible, or do you > want a combination of both. > > > > As for an ideal footprint, it would depend on the space you want to put > the cabinet in. If cost is no object, you can hire the best woodworkers > and have them build a cabinet to fit whatever space you wish. If you are > an institution that is looking to efficiently house their collection you > may want to go with one of those track systems where you can roll the > cabinets back and fourth on a track to minimize the aisle space between > your cabinets. With a system like that you can maximize your storage > space. If you want to create a cabinet to sell to mineral collectors you > have to make some general assumptions about what the most popular sizes > might be. Kieth Williams makes high-end specimen cabinets that cost > several thousand dollars each and he has orders enough to keep him busy > for many months to come. > > > > Do you want to make a set of drawers? What is the size distribution of > your specimens? What is their average value? > > Rock > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > From armandoafonso at oniduo.pt Sat Apr 12 08:46:32 2008 From: armandoafonso at oniduo.pt (Armando Afonso) Date: Sat Apr 12 08:46:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] old style labels Message-ID: I dedicated the day to abuse of the patience of the list! I am looking for a tenplate for labels, with those old style borders. Is there some site from where I can download that decorative elements? Armando --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Sat Apr 12 11:25:25 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Sat Apr 12 11:25:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] old style labels References: Message-ID: <001001c89cca$9796abe0$0200000a@LarryRush> Some clip art sites have a range of borders that you can download, and expand or re-size with a graphics program for your label needs. I use MS Publisher for mine. Any good graphics program should have lots of borders to select from and the means to modify them for width, color, shadow, etc. Even MS Word has scores of fancy and decorative borders, as do other word processors. If you tell me what dimensions you use for labels, I can send you a few jpegs that might be used as border templates. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Armando Afonso" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 11:46 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] old style labels I dedicated the day to abuse of the patience of the list! I am looking for a tenplate for labels, with those old style borders. Is there some site from where I can download that decorative elements? Armando --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com Sat Apr 12 17:10:12 2008 From: dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com (Holly & Darryl) Date: Sat Apr 12 17:10:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters Message-ID: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> Dear Rockhounds, Greetings from the Rochester Symposium. Great Symposium again this year. It's been a ball hearing the stories from the dealers and collectors. A lot of great people here. Here's the question for all of you (now that I'm home and away from the crowd). What glue do you all recommend for reattaching a herkimer crystal to the rest of the crystal group? I tried elmer's (don't think it's going to work; can't keep my hand still long enough). Any guidance would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sat Apr 12 18:39:12 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sat Apr 12 18:41:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters In-Reply-To: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> Message-ID: <48016440.2060802@hawaiiantel.net> "Household Cement," or Duco Cement or Scotch Super Strength Adhesive will set up and dry much faster than Elmers. But I've found the following to be very useful for many types of repairs, and it's especially good for glowhounds because the glue doesn't respond to SW or LW UV light and distract from fluorescent minerals. Materials: 1) Superglue: I prefer Instant Krazy Glue, the kind that comes in a green and orange stand-up Brush-On bottle is best (don't get the purple "color change formula;" it's supposed to change to clear after it dries, but in my tests it remained purple). You can use any type of superglue, but I find the brush-on easier to use. 2) "White powder" or "clear powder" or "crystalex ridge filler" available in drug stores where they sell fingernail repair and artificial glue-on fingernails. The powder contains acrylic ester polymer & benzoyl peroxide, or poly acrylic polymer. I've got it in a small (net wt. 2 grams) plastic vial with a small tip under the cap that allows very precise "squirting," tapping or spraying of the powder. This has a Kristy Wells trademark. I also have a 1/4 oz plastic jar with a Super Nail brand. It has a snap-on lid and a jar opening of about 2cm, so it's more difficult to shake out the amount you want onto a small location, but it's cheaper that way, in bulk (so to speak---if you can call 1/4 oz bulk!). I refill the Kristy Wells small container from the larger Super Nail one when needed, using a piece of paper rolled to fosm a funnel. Procedure: You use the powder to (a) speed up the drying of the superglue (it is supposed to be "instant," but on hard, smooth objects like quartz, it takes a while), (b) full in chips and gaps, (c) strengthen the bond, and (d) actually build up new or replacement areas if needed. The method is to paint on the superglue, put the two pieces together, then sprinkle some of the powder onto the seam where the superglue is visible. Depending on the size of the area to be glued, you may want to stabilize the two pieces in some fashion: I sometimes use a dab of household cement or even a tiny bit of mineral tack to hold the pieces in place, then paint on superglue and sprinkle on the powder. Sometimes I crumple aluminum foil to form props or cradles for balancing pieces in place. Modeling clay can work too, but be careful not to let the superglue seam touch the clay or it will become part of the repair! When the powdered glue is firm (takes a few seconds or up to a minute), blow off the excess powder and see if you may need more glue & powder added at a different location, again, depending on the size and shape of the item. If the powdered seam is very visible, you can sand it down gently with a bit of sandpaper or and emery board or nail file. A final brush with superglue will make the seam shiny and less visible. Sometimes there may be a gap up to 1/4 inch that should be filled in order to add strength: in this case you repeat layers of glue and powder, gradually building up or filling the space. Aluminum foil, waxed paper, or plastic wrap can be used to support the glue/powder mix if necessary. Caution: Superglue can stick your fingers together, and is extremely irritaing if it contacts your eyes. When I get a small amount on my fingers I just sand it off with an emery board, but it also comes off well with acetone or acetone-based nail polish remover, or after a few washings with soap & warm water. Aloha, Kitty Holly & Darryl wrote: > Dear Rockhounds, > Greetings from the Rochester Symposium. Great Symposium again this > year. It's been a ball hearing the stories from the dealers and > collectors. A lot of great people here. > > Here's the question for all of you (now that I'm home and away from > the crowd). > What glue do you all recommend for reattaching a herkimer crystal to > the rest of the crystal group? I tried elmer's (don't think it's > going to work; can't keep my hand still long enough). > > Any guidance would be much appreciated. > > Thank you in advance. > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York From folmstead at rcn.com Sat Apr 12 19:22:28 2008 From: folmstead at rcn.com (Frederick Olmstead) Date: Sat Apr 12 19:22:54 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Oregon Earthquake (s) In-Reply-To: <48016440.2060802@hawaiiantel.net> References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> <48016440.2060802@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <48016E64.7040709@rcn.com> Hi I was just checking the "net" for info about the "quake" in Oregon and came across this - of interest... GeorgiaO GA in VA fm CA (Carmel) __..--..__..--..__..--..__ Oregon Earthquake History A strong earthquake in Del Norte County, California, on November 22, 1873, caused chimney damage in many places as far north as Port Orford, Oregon, and east to Jacksonville, California. The tremor was felt from Portland to San Francisco and onboard ships at sea. Chimneys were damaged (intensity VII) in the Portland area from an October 12, 1877, earthquake apparently centered in the Cascade Mountains. Another severe shock affected Portland on February 3, 1892. Buildings swayed, and terrified people rushed into the street (VI). The earthquake was felt strongly at Astoria and Salem; the total area affected covered about 26,000 square kilometers. Some damage to buildings at Umatilla (VI-VII) resulted from a March 6, 1893, earthquake. Details on this shock are lacking. On April 2, 1896, three shocks in succession awakened everyone in McMinnville (VI). The main shock was felt at Portland and Salem. A similar occurrence on April 19, 1906, awakened people at Paisley (V). Three additional shocks followed within 1 1/2 hours. A strong earthquake on October 4, 1913, in the Seven Devils Mountains of western Idaho broke windows and dishes (V) in the area. On May 18, 1915, a sharp local earthquake rattled dishes, rocked chairs, and caused some fright (V) at Portland; three shocks were reported. Three shocks were felt at Fort Klamath (V) on April 14, 1920. The center was probably in the vicinity of Crater Lake. People in a small area around Cascadia felt an earthquake on February 25, 1921 (V). A shock that was probably rather strong in an unsettled region of southern Oregon occurred on January 10, 1923. Plaster fell at Alturas, California, and the tremor was felt strongly (V) at Lakeview, Oregon. The felt area extended to Klamath Falls. Another earthquake was felt widely over a sparsely settled area in eastern Oregon on April 8, 1927. The center was apparently in eastern Baker County; the maximum intensity (V) was noticed at Halfway and Richland. A damaging earthquake occurred at 11:08 PM PST on July 15, 1936, near the State line between Milton-Freewater, Oregon, and Walla Walla, Washington. The magnitude 5.75 shock affected an area of about 272,000 square kilometers in the two States and adjacent Idaho. Ground cracking was observed about 6.5 kilometers west of Freewater, and there were marked changes in the flow of well water (VII). Many chimneys were damaged at the roof level in Freewater; in addition, plaster was broken, and walls cracked. Similar damage was reported from Umapine. Total damage amounted to $100,000. There were numerous aftershocks up to November 17; more than 20 moderate shocks occurred during the night, and stronger ones were felt (V) on July 18 and August 4 and 27. A shock of intensity VI affected about 13,000 square kilometers in the vicinity of Portland on December 29, 1941. A downtown display window was shattered, and a few other windows were broken in other parts of Portland. The earthquake was also felt strongly at Hillsboro, Sherwood (where many were frightened), and Yamhill. The felt region extended into Washington; Vancouver and Woodland experienced minor damage. On April 13, a major earthquake (magnitude 7.0) caused eight deaths and an estimated $25 million damage at Olympia, Washington, and a broad area around the capital city. The depth of focus was estimated to be slightly greater than normal, which, in part, accounted for the large felt area - 388,000 square kilometers in the United States. In Oregon, widespread damage was observed, several injuries occurred at Astoria and Portland. A maximum intensity of VIII was experienced at Clatskanie and Rainier, where many chimneys twisted and fell, and there was considerable damage to brick and masonry. Minor damage in the Portland area resulted from a December 15, 1953, shock. There was one report of a cracked chimney and slight damage to fireplace tile (VI). Additional reports of plaster cracking were received from Portland and Roy, Oregon, and Vancouver, Washington. The total felt area covered about 7,700 square kilometers. Similar damage occurred at Salem on November 16, 1957, from an earthquake felt over a land area of 11,600 square kilometers in northwestern Oregon. The tremor frightened all in the city (VI) and caused some cracked plaster in West Salem. On August 18, 1961, another earthquake caused minor damage at Albany and Lebanon, south of the 1957 center. The magnitude 4.5 shock was felt (VI) by all in the two cities. Two house chimneys were toppled, and plaster cracked. The felt region extended into Cowlitz County, Washington; the total area was about 18,000 square kilometers. Portland experienced another moderately strong shock on November 6, 1961. Slight plaster cracking (VI) was the principal damage reported. Also, part of a chimney fell, and windows and lights broke. The earthquake was felt over a large area (about 23,000 square kilometers) of northwestern Oregon and southwestern Washington. A series of earthquakes near the Oregon-California border began on May 26, 1968, and continued daily through June 11. At Adel, old chimneys fell or were cracked, and part of an old rock cellar wall fell (VI) from a magnitude 4.7 tremor on June 3. Some ground fissures were noted in Bidwell Creek Canyon, near Fort Bidwell, California. The total felt area in the two States covered 18,000 square kilometers. Numerous other shocks located in California, Idaho, Nevada, Washington, and offshore points affected places in Oregon. The 1959 Hebgen Lake, Montana, earthquake was also felt in the State; slight damage was reported at Richland. Abridged from Earthquake Information Bulletin, Volume 8, Number 3, May-June 1976, by Carl A. von Hake. For a list of earthquakes that have occurred since this article was written, use the Earthquake Search. In partnership with nehrp ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * About Us * Contact Us * Site Map * Search ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Accessibility FOIA Privacy Policies and Notices Take Pride in America logo USA.gov logo U.S. Department of the Interior | U.S. Geological Survey --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) multipart/related text/html image/jpeg image/jpeg --- From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Sat Apr 12 19:33:51 2008 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Sat Apr 12 19:33:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters In-Reply-To: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> Message-ID: > What glue do you all recommend for reattaching a herkimer crystal to the rest of the crystal group? I tried elmer's (don't think it's going to work; can't keep my hand still long enough). Darryl: I've been doing minor repairs to Herk clusters for nearly 20 years using a gel-type cyanoacrylate glue.The stuff goes under dozens of brand names but look for some wording like 'crazy glue gel' or 'instant gel' on the packaging. A small dollop at the point of contact between the crystal and the substrate is usually enough to reattach the Herk securely in a minute or two. Don't try to use the regular version of this glue--it's too runny and just dribbles out on the rock and gives the specimen a fake, spilled varnish look that cries out "I'm repaired, I'm repaired!" look. If you can see the glue spot with the naked eye, then it's a lousy restoration, in my book. It is an edict of ethical mineral collecting conduct that specimens not be faked in any way, or enhanced by adding crystals to the cluster that weren't there as provided by nature. I have seen specimens displayed at mineral shows with crystals glued willy nilly across the face of a piece of rock obviously not even the correct dolomite parent rock. One time, I found a dealer with quartz Herks glued in holes of broken pieces of red brick because he thought they made better, more colorful tabletop decor specimens that way! Crazy glue gel is totally reversible by swabbing the glue joint with acetone nail polish remover (using proper ventilation, of course) and waiting a few minutes for the glue to dissolve and the remover to evaporate. Elmer's Glue-All is a casein-type glue suitable for bonding most porous materials such as paper and cloth, and semi-porous materials like wood or pottery, not rocks or minerals. Donald L. Tuttle _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653A --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 13 06:20:13 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Sun Apr 13 06:20:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ideal Mineral Cabinet In-Reply-To: <624022.22499.qm@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5149.84623.qm@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> For thumbnails, I've made a few cabinets from wristwatch display cases, such as Timex. These are the ones that stand on the jewelry cases in the store. They are often replaced and can be had if you know who to ask. With some cases, I've added shelves made from acrylic sheet from the hardware store. Others, that were not lit, I've added fluorescent lights. Jim "Sandra B. Gee" wrote: People tend to talk about display cabinets for cabinet sized specimens. What about display cabinets for miniatures? Sandra __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Apr 13 12:08:45 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 13 12:08:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> Message-ID: <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> Darryl, Use a minimal amount of superglue. The back of your label should be updated to note the specimen was repaired. Kreigh Holly & Darryl wrote: > > Dear Rockhounds, > Greetings from the Rochester Symposium. Great Symposium again this > year. It's been a ball hearing the stories from the dealers and > collectors. A lot of great people here. > > Here's the question for all of you (now that I'm home and away from the > crowd). > What glue do you all recommend for reattaching a herkimer crystal to the > rest of the crystal group? I tried elmer's (don't think it's going to > work; can't keep my hand still long enough). > > Any guidance would be much appreciated. > > Thank you in advance. > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sun Apr 13 13:29:05 2008 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sun Apr 13 13:29:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters In-Reply-To: <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000901c89da5$04a22900$0de67b00$@dillen@skynet.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Kreigh Tomaszewski Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 9:09 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters The back of your label should be updated to note the specimen was repaired. Kreigh >>>>> I hoped someone would come up with this aspect. Any repair or other form of artificial fundamental "improvement" should be mentioned, especially if you sell or exchange the specimen. But because your heirs/heiresses (had to look up this term in my dictionnary ;>) will not know what happened to the specimens it is obligatory anyway. This is not only the case for repaired specimens, but e.g. also for specimens that have been treated with acids, dithionite method etc., because the paragenesis is not anymore what it has been before. Of course there is always a gray zone. I don't mention that I cleaned a specimen ultrasonically using water. Grts, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, ?B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen ? MINERANT 2008? -? 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ Holly & Darryl wrote: > > Dear Rockhounds, > Greetings from the Rochester Symposium. Great Symposium again this > year. It's been a ball hearing the stories from the dealers and > collectors. A lot of great people here. > > Here's the question for all of you (now that I'm home and away from the > crowd). > What glue do you all recommend for reattaching a herkimer crystal to the > rest of the crystal group? I tried elmer's (don't think it's going to > work; can't keep my hand still long enough). > > Any guidance would be much appreciated. > > Thank you in advance. > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Apr 13 17:46:11 2008 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Apr 13 18:17:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ideal Mineral Cabinet References: <624022.22499.qm@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004001c89dcd$50288b30$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> Some thoughts about mineral specimen display cases. Armando, OK, Now I know where you are coming from. Sort of where I was a few years back. Your collection is probably now worth more than your house and you have everything from micros to large cabinet specimens. I can't tell you what to do, but perhaps I can make a few comments and suggestions that you may find helpful. You may want to build some wooden cabinets, perhaps with drawers below and a small glass fronted display space on top. You probably should not stint on the quality of the wood and the craftsmanship of the cabinets. If you make them look like fine pieces of furniture, it will make your collection look important and this will help preserve the collection should ever fall into the hands of someone who doesn't know much about specimens. In other words it will increase the half-life of your collection. Suggestions about materials & construction. If you want you can make them all from good quality hardwoods, although I have found that using a good grade plywood with a nice hardwood veneer for the sides, top, bottom and the same for the drawers is OK. I think that a good grade of plywood may save you from some warping in the long run and I think it is as strong as solid hardwood. Don't let whoever makes them for you use any particleboard or fiberboard for the backs of your cabinets or bottoms of your drawers. Make sure that the guy making them understands that the bottoms of the drawers should not be just tacked on. These will need to carry some weight. After all you are going to be putting rocks in these things. If you explain it to him in those terms, he will understand. However make sure that the fronts of the drawers are all a good quality hard wood. If you use fronts with a veneer, they will chip and peal over time. The front edges of the top, sides and bottoms of the plywood frame should also be covered with a half-inch thick strip of the same wood that the drawer fronts are made from to prevent chipping and pealing. I personally don't like to use drawer pulls because in time one or more of them tend to get knocked off. I prefer an undercut on the drawer bottoms that your finger tips can use to tug open the drawers. Also drawer pulls collect dust. Use good quality fully extensible roller bearings with stops so that you can pull your drawers out all the way and have easy access to the specimens in the back of your drawers. There is relatively new kind that will roll the drawer closed after you have started it back and seat it firmly closed. Very nice. After I get my cabinets in place, I cover the tops with a sheet of plate glass. This makes it easy to keep the top clean and keeps the tops of the cabinets from being scratched by specimens that always seem to end up on top of them. Notes on the size of the cabinets and drawers. For those of us who collect different size specimens, there has always been the problem of how to accommodate different size specimens in the same drawers. To do this you need different size boxes for your specimens and usually drawers of different heights, with the deep drawers usually reserved for the larger specimens. You will have to find and select the kinds of boxes that you want to store your specimens in. Ward's boxes were designed to efficiently hold different kinds of specimens with two of the next smaller size fitting exactly the space of the next larger size. The drawers will need to be of various depths to generally accommodate your different size specimens. Usually making them all deep enough for your largest specimens will involve a lot of wasted space and I don't know of anyone who has ever gone that rout. If you want to make cabinets for miniatures and micromounts you can make the drawers quite shallow and that will cover your needs. If you collect micros you should probably make the drawers not all that big and make them so that they can easily be removed and taken to a microscope for study. All my micro drawers can accommodate TNs and micros. To accommodate TN, I just lift out the wooden micro insert (tray) in the bottom of the drawer and this allows a little extra depth for the slightly taller TN boxes. The micro insert has little wooden strips, left to right on it that act as little separators for the micro boxes so you can pick them up easily. When you lift out the micro insert tray you see the little wooden strips that run side to side on the bottom of the drawer, to act as little separators for rows of TN boxes. For larger specimens I would recommend that you make the drawers no shallower than 3.25 inches. As for the side to side and front to back measurements I would recommend the drawer be not less than about 24 inches side to side and no less than 18 inches front to back. These would be inside measurements. The reason for this is that those measurements will accommodate placing two standard size flats side by side inside the drawer. You don't have to place your specimens in flats and those flats in the drawers, but I have found this feature quite handy by experience. I would recommend that some of the drawers be a little deeper, say 4 or 4.5 inches and one at the bottom to be at least six inched deep. You may wish to have a locking mechanism built into your cabinet. There are a number of options here and you cabinetmaker can probably give you a range of suggestions about these. You may wish to have doors on the front of your cabinet that you can swing shut and lock if you want. You may want to have a small glass fronted display shelf built into the top of your sets of drawers where you can display some of your larger or better specimens or just your most recent additions. I did this and had the back and sides of this little display section backed and sided with mirrors. This helps with the lighting. You can also put built in lighting in this section of your display case if you wish. You may wish to make your specimen drawers modular and stackable. I have done this with my micro cabinets and it has worked out quite well. The modular concept usually has a base unit that gets the drawers up off the ground by four or five inches and allows for a little kick space at the front floor of the cabinet. It also has a cap unit that covers up the top of the cabinets. This cabinet cap is usually no more than two or three inches high. The modular concept is also handy when it comes time to move the cabinets. If each unit is no more than 16 to 20 inches high, they are a lot easier to move than one large cabinet. Also you could have some modules with thin drawers for micros and TNs, some with 3.25 inch drawers and others with 4.5 or six inch drawers. You can then stack those units in columns of various or the same height Usually the construction of modular units requires a higher degree of precision for their manufacture than regular cabinets. I hope the above may be of some use to you. Rock From dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com Sun Apr 13 18:26:50 2008 From: dpowell13 at rochester.rr.com (Holly & Darryl) Date: Sun Apr 13 18:27:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Thank you Message-ID: <4802B2DA.2090900@rochester.rr.com> Dear Rockhounds Group, Many thanks to all who responded to my inquiry about repairing a Herkimer crystal group. You were all very helpful and the project was a great success. Have a great week everyone! Sincerely, Darryl Powell Manchester, New York From therockhunter at hotmail.com Sun Apr 13 18:49:34 2008 From: therockhunter at hotmail.com (B & B) Date: Sun Apr 13 18:49:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Laps In-Reply-To: <790460.21319.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <790460.21319.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Everyone: Have a question regarding vibro laps and regular laps. Is there a standard carpet to use when using this equipment. Sometimes you see grey carpet of such that looks like a heavy polar fleece and then others you see green indoor outdoor carpet a tight knit and a lose one. Is there a standard one for different grits or is in just personal preference. Thanks for your help Robert & Betty _________________________________________________________________ Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Mon Apr 14 12:49:12 2008 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Rick Trapp) Date: Mon Apr 14 12:50:46 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters In-Reply-To: <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4803B538.7000607@azgs.az.gov> I'm going to raise a question here about the use of "repaired" when applied to herkimer quartz and the like. I found a quartz specimen from Diamond Point, Arizona, a locality with many similarities to the Herkimer localities. The quartz crystals occur in vugs of all sizes in dolomitic limestone, often attached to the sides of the vug, but not always - sometimes they are free floaters with no obvious signs of attachment to the sides of the vug. The rind of the vugs is ordinarily dolomitic (as opposed to dolomitic limestone) and the quartz crystals normally have an attachment point, large or small, but characteristic. The rest of the vug is usually filled with yellow calcite, white calcite, and mud, sometimes lithified sometimes not so much. Some vugs occur with no quartz, some with no calcite. The apparent paragenetic sequence is then: dolomite, quartz, calcite. I was able to recover a complete vug filling with three amethyst crystals, all of which were separate crystals, but they fit together perfectly and none showed any broken edges whatsoever. The rest of the vug was a mixture of mud and tiny little pieces of calcite. Even when viewed under a low-power microscope, there are no signs of breakage on any of the crystals. The crystals fit together so well, that if you wet the contact surfaces and press the crystals together a little the crystals will remain attached to each other until disturbed or until the water evaporates. I used tiny amounts of super glue to make the crystals adhere to each other permanently. I have been told that this specimen is "repaired". My question is: If there is no evidence of breakage on these crystals, how can this specimen be considered to be repaired? How is this procedure, in this particular case (no evidence of fractures or breakage), any different than gluing a specimen to a stand? Rick Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: Darryl, Use a minimal amount of superglue. The back of your label should be updated to note the specimen was repaired. Kreigh Holly & Darryl wrote: Dear Rockhounds, Greetings from the Rochester Symposium. Great Symposium again this year. It's been a ball hearing the stories from the dealers and collectors. A lot of great people here. Here's the question for all of you (now that I'm home and away from the crowd). What glue do you all recommend for reattaching a herkimer crystal to the rest of the crystal group? I tried elmer's (don't think it's going to work; can't keep my hand still long enough). Any guidance would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance. Darryl Powell Manchester, New York -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From tjokela at execulink.com Mon Apr 14 13:24:08 2008 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Mon Apr 14 13:26:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> <4803B538.7000607@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <001501c89e6d$7e671d90$6500a8c0@Junior> > I have been told that this specimen is "repaired". > > My question is: If there is no evidence of breakage on these crystals, > how can this specimen be considered to be repaired? How is this > procedure, in this particular case (no evidence of fractures or > breakage), any different than gluing a specimen to a stand? > ------------------------------------ The specimen was not formed in nature glued to a plastic stand. Anything glued back to it's original location is called repaired. The crystals were broken apart, you glued them back together.... that's a repair. If you'd prefer it not be called a repair, display the crystals side by side in a box or something. It's not a sin, but our corner of the collector market seems to perhaps blow things out of proportion . (One might suspect the lust for perfection is driven by the new millionaire collectors that have never been in the field and realized how incredibly rare perfection actually is.) Eg. try finding a fossil that hasn't been repaired, reinforced, or just outright carved and painted, lol. The paleo people have a whole different take on the matter; one dinosaur on display at a museum might be made up of ten different animals and ten kilos pounds of plastic. Put it on the label and don't worry about it. From rain1950 at gmail.com Mon Apr 14 13:39:38 2008 From: rain1950 at gmail.com (Dave Bese) Date: Mon Apr 14 13:39:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] What a crazy 3 years! Message-ID: I don't recall why I quit this list, but I'm back. In the meanwhile; changes have taken place. No long married after 34 years; she has a fear of getting old and is off chasing younger men. I now have two grandsons; 6 and 9. The oldest is extremely interested in minerals and fossils, so about every two weeks we go out afield. This has rekindled an interest in fossils that was more of a filler activity before. Been having fun attacking the fossil bearing siltstones until the snows melt so we can hit the mtns. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Mon Apr 14 14:03:33 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Mon Apr 14 14:03:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters In-Reply-To: <4803B538.7000607@azgs.az.gov> References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> <4803B538.7000607@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: Hi Rick, Simply stated, the specimen is repaired because you did something to the crystals to put them into the condition that you believe they formed in. The fact that a break is not obvious doesn't matter. As found in the cavity, the crystals were separate but with apparent evidence that they had formed as a group stuck together. You are trying to recreate that group by using glue, or repairing the group. If the three crystals were not originally stuck together as group, then you are not repairing the specimen, you are creating or faking a specimen. Gluing a specimen to a stand is a whole different thing. That is a procedure of mounting a specimen for display, it is not a process of altering the specimen. It doesn't appear to be natural, it doesn't trick or fool anyone into thinking it is natural. Regards, Lanny On Apr 14, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Rick Trapp wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to raise a question here about the use of "repaired" when > applied to herkimer quartz and the like. > > > > I found a quartz specimen from Diamond Point, Arizona, a locality with > many similarities to the Herkimer localities. The quartz crystals > occur > in vugs of all sizes in dolomitic limestone, often attached to the > sides of the vug, but not always - sometimes they are free floaters > with no obvious signs of attachment to the sides of the vug. The rind > of the vugs is ordinarily dolomitic (as opposed to dolomitic > limestone) > and the quartz crystals normally have an attachment point, large or > small, but characteristic. The rest of the vug is usually filled with > yellow calcite, white calcite, and mud, sometimes lithified sometimes > not so much. Some vugs occur with no quartz, some with no calcite. The > apparent paragenetic sequence is then: dolomite, quartz, calcite. > > > > I was able to recover a complete vug filling with three amethyst > crystals, all of which were separate crystals, but they fit together > perfectly and none showed any broken edges whatsoever. The rest of the > vug was a mixture of mud and tiny little pieces of calcite. Even when > viewed under a low-power microscope, there are no signs of breakage on > any of the crystals. The crystals fit together so well, that if you > wet > the contact surfaces and press the crystals together a little the > crystals will remain attached to each other until disturbed or until > the water evaporates. > > > > I used tiny amounts of super glue to make the crystals adhere to each > other permanently. > > > > I have been told that this specimen is "repaired". > > > > My question is: If there is no evidence of breakage on these crystals, > how can this specimen be considered to be repaired? How is this > procedure, in this particular case (no evidence of fractures or > breakage), any different than gluing a specimen to a stand? > > > > > > Rick > > > > > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Darryl, > > Use a minimal amount of superglue. > > The back of your label should be updated to note the specimen was > repaired. > > Kreigh > > > > > Holly & Darryl wrote: > > > Dear Rockhounds, > Greetings from the Rochester Symposium. Great Symposium again this > year. It's been a ball hearing the stories from the dealers and > collectors. A lot of great people here. > > Here's the question for all of you (now that I'm home and away from > the > crowd). > What glue do you all recommend for reattaching a herkimer crystal to > the > rest of the crystal group? I tried elmer's (don't think it's going to > work; can't keep my hand still long enough). > > Any guidance would be much appreciated. > > Thank you in advance. > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > -- > Rick Trapp > Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey > rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Mon Apr 14 14:27:32 2008 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Rick Trapp) Date: Mon Apr 14 14:29:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters In-Reply-To: References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> <4803B538.7000607@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <4803CC44.7070303@azgs.az.gov> OK, I accept all that, but perhaps I didn't make myself clear. The three crystals each have indentations or casts that match exactly to corresponding features on one or both of the other crystals. This is not a case of flat crystal faces being glued to other flat crystal faces. Additionally, when I first cleaned up the contents of the vug these crystals were fitted together perfectly, but not attached to each other, not to the rest of the vug contents, and not to the rim of the vug. I'm pretty sure this is a common natural condition, there are all kinds of "floaters" from Arkansas, for instance, with no visible broken attachment point. Crystals often grow (at least in this locality and I have seen similar Herkimer specimens) in exact proximity to each other without actually being part of each other. The growth of the crystal surfaces in the separate crystals are exact complements to each other. As I mentioned, the match is so close that just getting the complementary surfaces wet is enough to make them adhere to each other in a group. So, I actually observed these crystals in the vug in the configuration they are presently in, I am not assuming anything - the contents of the vug were removed intact and I saw the position of these crystals. Since the questions seem to revolve around the use of glue or something, and since gluing to a stand is allowed, would these crystals still be "repaired" if I constructed a stand which touched two of the crystals and thus held the third crystal in place without any glue being applied between the crystals themselves, thus placing them exactly in the position they were found? Rick Lanny R wrote: > Hi Rick, > > Simply stated, the specimen is repaired because you did something to > the crystals to put them into the condition that you believe they > formed in. The fact that a break is not obvious doesn't matter. As > found in the cavity, the crystals were separate but with apparent > evidence that they had formed as a group stuck together. You are > trying to recreate that group by using glue, or repairing the group. > > If the three crystals were not originally stuck together as group, > then you are not repairing the specimen, you are creating or faking a > specimen. > > Gluing a specimen to a stand is a whole different thing. That is a > procedure of mounting a specimen for display, it is not a process of > altering the specimen. It doesn't appear to be natural, it doesn't > trick or fool anyone into thinking it is natural. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > > > > > On Apr 14, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Rick Trapp wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I'm going to raise a question here about the use of "repaired" when >> applied to herkimer quartz and the like. >> >> >> >> I found a quartz specimen from Diamond Point, Arizona, a locality with >> many similarities to the Herkimer localities. The quartz crystals occur >> in vugs of all sizes in dolomitic limestone, often attached to the >> sides of the vug, but not always - sometimes they are free floaters >> with no obvious signs of attachment to the sides of the vug. The rind >> of the vugs is ordinarily dolomitic (as opposed to dolomitic limestone) >> and the quartz crystals normally have an attachment point, large or >> small, but characteristic. The rest of the vug is usually filled with >> yellow calcite, white calcite, and mud, sometimes lithified sometimes >> not so much. Some vugs occur with no quartz, some with no calcite. The >> apparent paragenetic sequence is then: dolomite, quartz, calcite. >> >> >> >> I was able to recover a complete vug filling with three amethyst >> crystals, all of which were separate crystals, but they fit together >> perfectly and none showed any broken edges whatsoever. The rest of the >> vug was a mixture of mud and tiny little pieces of calcite. Even when >> viewed under a low-power microscope, there are no signs of breakage on >> any of the crystals. The crystals fit together so well, that if you wet >> the contact surfaces and press the crystals together a little the >> crystals will remain attached to each other until disturbed or until >> the water evaporates. >> >> >> >> I used tiny amounts of super glue to make the crystals adhere to each >> other permanently. >> >> >> >> I have been told that this specimen is "repaired". >> >> >> >> My question is: If there is no evidence of breakage on these crystals, >> how can this specimen be considered to be repaired? How is this >> procedure, in this particular case (no evidence of fractures or >> breakage), any different than gluing a specimen to a stand? >> >> >> >> >> >> Rick >> >> >> >> >> >> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: >> >> Darryl, >> >> Use a minimal amount of superglue. >> >> The back of your label should be updated to note the specimen was >> repaired. >> >> Kreigh >> >> >> >> >> Holly & Darryl wrote: >> >> >> Dear Rockhounds, >> Greetings from the Rochester Symposium. Great Symposium again this >> year. It's been a ball hearing the stories from the dealers and >> collectors. A lot of great people here. >> >> Here's the question for all of you (now that I'm home and away from the >> crowd). >> What glue do you all recommend for reattaching a herkimer crystal to the >> rest of the crystal group? I tried elmer's (don't think it's going to >> work; can't keep my hand still long enough). >> >> Any guidance would be much appreciated. >> >> Thank you in advance. >> Darryl Powell >> Manchester, New York >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Rick Trapp >> Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey >> rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov >> >> >> >> >> >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >> text/html (html body -- converted) >> --- >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 14 14:55:08 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Mon Apr 14 14:55:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> <4803B538.7000607@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <001101c89e7a$34df5770$0200000a@LarryRush> This is true with some Herkimer Quartz crystals, such as Darryl's. Many vug clusters were never attached to each other (or the vug wall), in the sense that they were not intergrown structurally or morphologically. When the vug is opened, and the clay removed, they fall apart from each other. The cluster is much more aesthetic when replaced in it's original configuration, but a drop of glue is needed to hold them together. Maybe a better label term would be "strengthened", as opposed to "repaired". I have used glue at times to strengthen a weak crack, not completely broken, and this is more like that situation than a repaired break. For those who have never done this, it approaches extreme frustration to sit at a kitchen table for hours in the dead of Winter, trying to fit the cluster back to it's original configuration, especially when there are as many as 6 separate crystals that fit precisely together. Kinda like a 3-D jigsaw puzzle! Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Trapp" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters > > I'm going to raise a question here about the use of "repaired" when > applied to herkimer quartz and the like. > > > > I found a quartz specimen from Diamond Point, Arizona, a locality with > many similarities to the Herkimer localities. The quartz crystals occur in > vugs of all sizes in dolomitic limestone, often attached to the sides of > the vug, but not always - sometimes they are free floaters with no obvious > signs of attachment to the sides of the vug. The rind of the vugs is ordinarily dolomitic (as opposed to dolomitic limestone) and the quartz crystals normally have an attachment point, large or small, but characteristic. The rest of the vug is usually filled with yellow calcite, white calcite, and mud, sometimes lithified sometimes not so much. Some vugs occur with no quartz, some with no calcite. The apparent paragenetic sequence is then: dolomite, quartz, calcite. > > > > I was able to recover a complete vug filling with three amethyst crystals, > all of which were separate crystals, but they fit together perfectly and > none showed any broken edges whatsoever. The rest of the vug was a mixture > of mud and tiny little pieces of calcite. Even when viewed under a > low-power microscope, there are no signs of breakage on any of the crystals. The crystals fit together so well, that if you wet the contact surfaces and press the crystals together a little the crystals will remain attached to each other until disturbed or until the water evaporates. > > > I used tiny amounts of super glue to make the crystals adhere to each > other permanently. > > I have been told that this specimen is "repaired". > > My question is: If there is no evidence of breakage on these crystals, > how can this specimen be considered to be repaired? How is this > procedure, in this particular case (no evidence of fractures or > breakage), any different than gluing a specimen to a stand? > > > > > > Rick From llbullbull at hotmail.com Mon Apr 14 14:56:41 2008 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Mon Apr 14 14:56:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters In-Reply-To: <001101c89e7a$34df5770$0200000a@LarryRush> References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> <4803B538.7000607@azgs.az.gov> <001101c89e7a$34df5770$0200000a@LarryRush> Message-ID: How about reassembled.....? Larry Bull> From: larryrush@worldnet.att.net> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 17:55:08 -0400> > This is true with some Herkimer Quartz crystals, such as Darryl's. Many vug > clusters were never attached to each other (or the vug wall), in the sense > that they were not intergrown structurally or morphologically. When the vug > is opened, and the clay removed, they fall apart from each other. The > cluster is much more aesthetic when replaced in it's original configuration, > but a drop of glue is needed to hold them together.> > Maybe a better label term would be "strengthened", as opposed to "repaired". > I have used glue at times to strengthen a weak crack, not completely broken, > and this is more like that situation than a repaired break.> > For those who have never done this, it approaches extreme frustration to sit > at a kitchen table for hours in the dead of Winter, trying to fit the > cluster back to it's original configuration, especially when there are as > many as 6 separate crystals that fit precisely together. Kinda like a 3-D > jigsaw puzzle!> > Larry> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Trapp" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 3:49 PM> Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters> > > > >> > I'm going to raise a question here about the use of "repaired" when> > applied to herkimer quartz and the like.> >> >> >> > I found a quartz specimen from Diamond Point, Arizona, a locality with > > many similarities to the Herkimer localities. The quartz crystals occur in > > vugs of all sizes in dolomitic limestone, often attached to the sides of > > the vug, but not always - sometimes they are free floaters with no obvious > > signs of attachment to the sides of the vug. The rind> of the vugs is ordinarily dolomitic (as opposed to dolomitic limestone) and > the quartz crystals normally have an attachment point, large or small, but > characteristic. The rest of the vug is usually filled with yellow calcite, > white calcite, and mud, sometimes lithified sometimes not so much. Some vugs > occur with no quartz, some with no calcite. The apparent paragenetic > sequence is then: dolomite, quartz, calcite.> >> >> >> > I was able to recover a complete vug filling with three amethyst crystals, > > all of which were separate crystals, but they fit together perfectly and > > none showed any broken edges whatsoever. The rest of the vug was a mixture > > of mud and tiny little pieces of calcite. Even when viewed under a > > low-power microscope, there are no signs of breakage on> any of the crystals. The crystals fit together so well, that if you wet the > contact surfaces and press the crystals together a little the crystals will > remain attached to each other until disturbed or until the water evaporates.> >> >> > I used tiny amounts of super glue to make the crystals adhere to each> > other permanently.> > >> > I have been told that this specimen is "repaired".> > >> > My question is: If there is no evidence of breakage on these crystals,> > how can this specimen be considered to be repaired? How is this> > procedure, in this particular case (no evidence of fractures or> > breakage), any different than gluing a specimen to a stand?> >> >> >> >> >> > Rick> > -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_getintouch_042008 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pmodreski at aol.com Mon Apr 14 15:50:46 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 14 15:50:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters In-Reply-To: <4803CC44.7070303@azgs.az.gov> References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> <4803B538.7000607@azgs.az.gov> <4803CC44.7070303@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <8CA6C991C2ECE7A-F64-3277@webmail-nb02.sysops.aol.com> Then, Rick, I don't think anyone would count them as "repaired" in any sense. Probably the "reassembled" word would still apply, as per what Lawrence wrote.? Without that caveat, imagine of course if a cluster mounted like this were sold to someone unsuspecting of just what had been done, and if he, clueless,?took his prize cluster out of its plastic stand and the crystals all fell apart?? Arghhh! Pete would these crystals still be "repaired" if I constructed a stand which touched two of the crystals and thus held the third crystal in place without any glue being applied between the crystals themselves, thus placing them exactly in the position they were found?? -----Original Message----- From: Rick Trapp To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 3:27 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters OK, I accept all that, but perhaps I didn't make myself clear. The three crystals each have indentations or casts that match exactly to corresponding features on one or both of the other crystals. This is not a case of flat crystal faces being glued to other flat crystal faces. Additionally, when I first cleaned up the contents of the vug these crystals were fitted together perfectly, but not attached to each other, not to the rest of the vug contents, and not to the rim of the vug. I'm pretty sure this is a common natural condition, there are all kinds of "floaters" from Arkansas, for instance, with no visible broken attachment point. Crystals often grow (at least in this locality and I have seen similar Herkimer specimens) in exact proximity to each other without actually being part of each other. The growth of the crystal surfaces in the separate crystals are exact complements to each other. As I mentioned, the match is so close that just getting the complementary surfaces wet is enough to make them adhere to each other in a group.? ? So, I actually observed these crystals in the vug in the configuration they are presently in, I am not assuming anything - the contents of the vug were removed intact and I saw the position of these crystals.? ? Since the questions seem to revolve around the use of glue or something, and since gluing to a stand is allowed, would these crystals still be "repaired" if I constructed a stand which touched two of the crystals and thus held the third crystal in place without any glue being applied between the crystals themselves, thus placing them exactly in the position they were found?? ? Rick? ? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From web_admin at ccfms.ca Mon Apr 14 16:02:27 2008 From: web_admin at ccfms.ca (CCFMS Web Admin) Date: Mon Apr 14 16:02:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] FW: lapidary shops in tuscany italy Message-ID: <000201c89e83$9c2edb40$ab69d543@sdouglas> Can anybody help me, help this guy out? TIA, Stephen Douglas CCFMS Communications Director & Web Admin web_admin@ccfms.ca http://www.ccfms.ca/ Hi I'll be going to italy in the very near future, I can,t seem to find the location of any lapidary shops in the tuscany area. Could you help me out? Thank You Jean-guy Bradette Ottawa --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Mon Apr 14 17:33:02 2008 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Mon Apr 14 17:33:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters In-Reply-To: <4803CC44.7070303@azgs.az.gov> References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> <4803B538.7000607@azgs.az.gov> <4803CC44.7070303@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: I would call them "enhanced"...... Dawn Fredricks > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:27:32 -0700 > From: rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters > > OK, I accept all that, but perhaps I didn't make myself clear. The three > crystals each have indentations or casts that match exactly to > corresponding features on one or both of the other crystals. This is not > a case of flat crystal faces being glued to other flat crystal faces. > Additionally, when I first cleaned up the contents of the vug these > crystals were fitted together perfectly, but not attached to each other, > not to the rest of the vug contents, and not to the rim of the vug. I'm > pretty sure this is a common natural condition, there are all kinds of > "floaters" from Arkansas, for instance, with no visible broken > attachment point. Crystals often grow (at least in this locality and I > have seen similar Herkimer specimens) in exact proximity to each other > without actually being part of each other. The growth of the crystal > surfaces in the separate crystals are exact complements to each other. > As I mentioned, the match is so close that just getting the > complementary surfaces wet is enough to make them adhere to each other > in a group. > > So, I actually observed these crystals in the vug in the configuration > they are presently in, I am not assuming anything - the contents of the > vug were removed intact and I saw the position of these crystals. > > Since the questions seem to revolve around the use of glue or something, > and since gluing to a stand is allowed, would these crystals still be > "repaired" if I constructed a stand which touched two of the crystals > and thus held the third crystal in place without any glue being applied > between the crystals themselves, thus placing them exactly in the > position they were found? > > > Rick > > Lanny R wrote: > > Hi Rick, > > > > Simply stated, the specimen is repaired because you did something to > > the crystals to put them into the condition that you believe they > > formed in. The fact that a break is not obvious doesn't matter. As > > found in the cavity, the crystals were separate but with apparent > > evidence that they had formed as a group stuck together. You are > > trying to recreate that group by using glue, or repairing the group. > > > > If the three crystals were not originally stuck together as group, > > then you are not repairing the specimen, you are creating or faking a > > specimen. > > > > Gluing a specimen to a stand is a whole different thing. That is a > > procedure of mounting a specimen for display, it is not a process of > > altering the specimen. It doesn't appear to be natural, it doesn't > > trick or fool anyone into thinking it is natural. > > > > Regards, > > > > Lanny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 14, 2008, at 12:49 PM, Rick Trapp wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> I'm going to raise a question here about the use of "repaired" when > >> applied to herkimer quartz and the like. > >> > >> > >> > >> I found a quartz specimen from Diamond Point, Arizona, a locality with > >> many similarities to the Herkimer localities. The quartz crystals occur > >> in vugs of all sizes in dolomitic limestone, often attached to the > >> sides of the vug, but not always - sometimes they are free floaters > >> with no obvious signs of attachment to the sides of the vug. The rind > >> of the vugs is ordinarily dolomitic (as opposed to dolomitic limestone) > >> and the quartz crystals normally have an attachment point, large or > >> small, but characteristic. The rest of the vug is usually filled with > >> yellow calcite, white calcite, and mud, sometimes lithified sometimes > >> not so much. Some vugs occur with no quartz, some with no calcite. The > >> apparent paragenetic sequence is then: dolomite, quartz, calcite. > >> > >> > >> > >> I was able to recover a complete vug filling with three amethyst > >> crystals, all of which were separate crystals, but they fit together > >> perfectly and none showed any broken edges whatsoever. The rest of the > >> vug was a mixture of mud and tiny little pieces of calcite. Even when > >> viewed under a low-power microscope, there are no signs of breakage on > >> any of the crystals. The crystals fit together so well, that if you wet > >> the contact surfaces and press the crystals together a little the > >> crystals will remain attached to each other until disturbed or until > >> the water evaporates. > >> > >> > >> > >> I used tiny amounts of super glue to make the crystals adhere to each > >> other permanently. > >> > >> > >> > >> I have been told that this specimen is "repaired". > >> > >> > >> > >> My question is: If there is no evidence of breakage on these crystals, > >> how can this specimen be considered to be repaired? How is this > >> procedure, in this particular case (no evidence of fractures or > >> breakage), any different than gluing a specimen to a stand? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Rick > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > >> > >> Darryl, > >> > >> Use a minimal amount of superglue. > >> > >> The back of your label should be updated to note the specimen was > >> repaired. > >> > >> Kreigh > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Holly & Darryl wrote: > >> > >> > >> Dear Rockhounds, > >> Greetings from the Rochester Symposium. Great Symposium again this > >> year. It's been a ball hearing the stories from the dealers and > >> collectors. A lot of great people here. > >> > >> Here's the question for all of you (now that I'm home and away from the > >> crowd). > >> What glue do you all recommend for reattaching a herkimer crystal to the > >> rest of the crystal group? I tried elmer's (don't think it's going to > >> work; can't keep my hand still long enough). > >> > >> Any guidance would be much appreciated. > >> > >> Thank you in advance. > >> Darryl Powell > >> Manchester, New York > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Rick Trapp > >> Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey > >> rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > >> text/html (html body -- converted) > >> --- > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > Rick Trapp > Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey > rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Apr 14 17:41:25 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Apr 14 17:40:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters In-Reply-To: References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> <4803B538.7000607@azgs.az.gov> <4803CC44.7070303@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <4803F9B5.5070307@verizon.net> Dawn M. Fredricks wrote: > I would call them "enhanced"...... Yikes, lots of semantics. Well, I'm not going to have a mental exercise about what to call them, but you should note exactly what you did on the label. That way a future owner can know how to deal with them. I don't think it is so important what you call a treatment as to describe exactly what you did and using what materials. Take care, Don From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Mon Apr 14 18:52:07 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Mon Apr 14 18:49:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com> <48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> <4803B538.7000607@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <48040983.1EA6@Tomaszewski.net> Rick, If they have glue holding them together they are repaired. Soak them in nail polish remover and clean off the glue. Fit them back together and make a base that will hold them in their joined position. An easy way to make a custom fitted base is to coat the bottom of the crystals with a thin layer of vaseline. Mix up some plaster and pour it into a ring of tape or paper. Set the crystals in and wait for the plaster to harden. Pull out the crystals. Clean off the vaseline. Paint the plaster a suitable color. Put the crystals back together and set them into the custom fitted base. You can then display them together, or take them apart to show they are not repaired. And if you really need to stick them together, use mineral putty instead of glue. Kreigh Rick Trapp wrote: > > > > I'm going to raise a question here about the use of "repaired" when > applied to herkimer quartz and the like. > > I found a quartz specimen from Diamond Point, Arizona, a locality with > many similarities to the Herkimer localities. The quartz crystals occur > in vugs of all sizes in dolomitic limestone, often attached to the > sides of the vug, but not always - sometimes they are free floaters > with no obvious signs of attachment to the sides of the vug. The rind > of the vugs is ordinarily dolomitic (as opposed to dolomitic limestone) > and the quartz crystals normally have an attachment point, large or > small, but characteristic. The rest of the vug is usually filled with > yellow calcite, white calcite, and mud, sometimes lithified sometimes > not so much. Some vugs occur with no quartz, some with no calcite. The > apparent paragenetic sequence is then: dolomite, quartz, calcite. > > I was able to recover a complete vug filling with three amethyst > crystals, all of which were separate crystals, but they fit together > perfectly and none showed any broken edges whatsoever. The rest of the > vug was a mixture of mud and tiny little pieces of calcite. Even when > viewed under a low-power microscope, there are no signs of breakage on > any of the crystals. The crystals fit together so well, that if you wet > the contact surfaces and press the crystals together a little the > crystals will remain attached to each other until disturbed or until > the water evaporates. > > I used tiny amounts of super glue to make the crystals adhere to each > other permanently. > > I have been told that this specimen is "repaired". > > My question is: If there is no evidence of breakage on these crystals, > how can this specimen be considered to be repaired? How is this > procedure, in this particular case (no evidence of fractures or > breakage), any different than gluing a specimen to a stand? > > Rick > > Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > > Darryl, > > Use a minimal amount of superglue. > > The back of your label should be updated to note the specimen was > repaired. > > Kreigh > > Holly & Darryl wrote: > > > Dear Rockhounds, > Greetings from the Rochester Symposium. Great Symposium again this > year. It's been a ball hearing the stories from the dealers and > collectors. A lot of great people here. > > Here's the question for all of you (now that I'm home and away from the > crowd). > What glue do you all recommend for reattaching a herkimer crystal to the > rest of the crystal group? I tried elmer's (don't think it's going to > work; can't keep my hand still long enough). > > Any guidance would be much appreciated. > > Thank you in advance. > Darryl Powell > Manchester, New York > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > Rick Trapp > Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey > rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Apr 15 02:40:37 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Apr 15 02:40:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repairing Herkimer Clusters In-Reply-To: <48040983.1EA6@Tomaszewski.net> References: <48014F64.3090406@rochester.rr.com><48025A2C.1B9A@Tomaszewski.net> <4803B538.7000607@azgs.az.gov> <48040983.1EA6@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001201c89edc$c2f810d0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> > And if you really need to stick them together, use mineral > putty instead of glue. > > Kreigh Yes please! Glue has the unpleasant habit of fluorescing. I you buy glued specimens for you fluorescent mineral collection you're getting more than you want. Axel From DOMMELEN at DAL.CA Tue Apr 15 08:26:23 2008 From: DOMMELEN at DAL.CA (Ronnie Van Dommelen) Date: Tue Apr 15 08:26:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Display Cabinet for Minatures In-Reply-To: <624022.22499.qm@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <624022.22499.qm@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080415122623.o027nyr8x8g0cs00@my3.dal.ca> Sandra, I am waiting to build a full sized cabinet until my basement is fixed up. In the meantime I needed SOMETHING to put on display and decided to build a small display of miniatures. I built a shadowbox-like frame (using a miter saw) and put a groove in it (with table saw) to hold a sheet of glass for the front. The top piece of wood was cut right through so the glass can slide in from the top. The front piece of glass was from an old flat-bed scanner. I glued some little shelf-holders (wood) to the insides and had 5(?) small glass shelves cut for me at a glass shop. There is also a thin wood back to help mounting it to the wall. It's mounted at eye level so you can see the pieces well. It was cheap and easy to make and holds about 15-20 miniatures. I can send a pick if you like. Ronnie Quoting "Sandra B. Gee" : > People tend to talk about display cabinets for cabinet > sized specimens. What about display cabinets for > miniatures? > > Sandra From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Apr 15 08:29:51 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 15 08:37:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Display Cabinet for Minatures In-Reply-To: <20080415122623.o027nyr8x8g0cs00@my3.dal.ca> References: <624022.22499.qm@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20080415122623.o027nyr8x8g0cs00@my3.dal.ca> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080415082740.035a6da0@orerockon.com> For future reference, I have found that Lowe's cuts glass to any size for much less than any glass shop. they did a pile of pieces for homemade picture frames for me and they looked nice. If you want fancy beveled edges, I don't know that they can do that (it is also $$$). At 08:26 AM 4/15/2008, you wrote: Sandra, I am waiting to build a full sized cabinet until my basement is fixed up. In the meantime I needed SOMETHING to put on display and decided to build a small display of miniatures. I built a shadowbox-like frame (using a miter saw) and put a groove in it (with table saw) to hold a sheet of glass for the front. The top piece of wood was cut right through so the glass can slide in from the top. The front piece of glass was from an old flat-bed scanner. I glued some little shelf-holders (wood) to the insides and had 5(?) small glass shelves cut for me at a glass shop. There is also a thin wood back to help mounting it to the wall. It's mounted at eye level so you can see the pieces well. It was cheap and easy to make and holds about 15-20 miniatures. I can send a pick if you like. Ronnie Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From JWachsmuth at gmx.de Tue Apr 15 10:00:01 2008 From: JWachsmuth at gmx.de (Juergen Wachsmuth) Date: Tue Apr 15 09:59:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Faceting computer References: <200804120103.m3C12o3P027830@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <002a01c89c8f$71f5ce10$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> Message-ID: <4804DF10.DEC2E9EA@gmx.de> Hello group, most of your comments did not sound convinced of the idea. Maybe you are right. Nevertheless let me say that these people of the Wild company in Idar-Oberstein are experts. They know what they are doing in the business of stone cutting. So I would say they probably have answers to the questions mentioned here, or they are working at them. Regards, J?rgen Wachsmuth Rock Currier schrieb: > Don's right, that computer faceting outfit would make a hash out of most > natural gem rough. I think the guys that designed it were obviously machine > tool guys that didn't know anything much about mineralogy. The system would > work great for isotropic stones that were all of uniform color intensity and > without flaws, which is so rarely the case with natural gem rough, that it > isn't worth talking about. It is however the first step in what may be in a > generation or two a system that might be useful in cutting stones. Now they > have to work on the hard part, to somehow create a program that is smart > enough to know all about cleavage, refractive index, dichroism, dispersion, > inclusions, color zoning etc and to be able to take all this and to make > reasonable judgements about how to get the most valuable stone out of the > rough. Oh, and don't forget the demands of the market place and fashion that > influince the kinds of stontes that are in fashion this year. I think this > device will start to replace skilled stone cutters about the time they learn > to cure the common cold which does not appear to be any time soon. > Rock > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dr00bert at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 11:37:46 2008 From: dr00bert at gmail.com (Drew) Date: Tue Apr 15 11:37:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Faceting computer In-Reply-To: <4804DF10.DEC2E9EA@gmx.de> References: <200804120103.m3C12o3P027830@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <002a01c89c8f$71f5ce10$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> <4804DF10.DEC2E9EA@gmx.de> Message-ID: <7aac8040804151137r89dd739n978d7c779fe09ece@mail.gmail.com> I have emailed the contact listed on the PDF that I posted... I asked him some of the questions that the group had. I will let you all know if I receive a response. Thanks, Drew On 4/15/08, Juergen Wachsmuth wrote: > > Hello group, > most of your comments did not sound convinced of the idea. Maybe you are > right. > Nevertheless let me say that these people of the Wild company in > Idar-Oberstein > are experts. They know what they are doing in the business of stone > cutting. So > I would say they probably have answers to the questions mentioned here, or > they > are working at them. > > Regards, > J?rgen Wachsmuth > > > Rock Currier schrieb: > > > Don's right, that computer faceting outfit would make a hash out of most > > natural gem rough. I think the guys that designed it were obviously > machine > > tool guys that didn't know anything much about mineralogy. The system > would > > work great for isotropic stones that were all of uniform color intensity > and > > without flaws, which is so rarely the case with natural gem rough, that > it > > isn't worth talking about. It is however the first step in what may be > in a > > generation or two a system that might be useful in cutting stones. Now > they > > have to work on the hard part, to somehow create a program that is smart > > enough to know all about cleavage, refractive index, dichroism, > dispersion, > > inclusions, color zoning etc and to be able to take all this and to make > > reasonable judgements about how to get the most valuable stone out of > the > > rough. Oh, and don't forget the demands of the market place and fashion > that > > influince the kinds of stontes that are in fashion this year. I think > this > > device will start to replace skilled stone cutters about the time they > learn > > to cure the common cold which does not appear to be any time soon. > > Rock > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca Tue Apr 15 12:42:20 2008 From: dmichaelschmidt at shaw.ca (Michael Schmidt) Date: Tue Apr 15 12:42:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Faceting computer References: <200804120103.m3C12o3P027830@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <002a01c89c8f$71f5ce10$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> <4804DF10.DEC2E9EA@gmx.de> Message-ID: <01a001c89f30$d20ec8d0$6401a8c0@michael01> experts schmexperts...what do Germans know about faceting gemstones? especially ones from some tiny little town like Idar Oberstein??? :-) Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juergen Wachsmuth" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Faceting computer > Hello group, > most of your comments did not sound convinced of the idea. Maybe you are > right. > Nevertheless let me say that these people of the Wild company in > Idar-Oberstein > are experts. They know what they are doing in the business of stone > cutting. So > I would say they probably have answers to the questions mentioned here, or > they > are working at them. > > Regards, > J?rgen Wachsmuth > > > Rock Currier schrieb: > >> Don's right, that computer faceting outfit would make a hash out of most >> natural gem rough. I think the guys that designed it were obviously >> machine >> tool guys that didn't know anything much about mineralogy. The system >> would >> work great for isotropic stones that were all of uniform color intensity >> and >> without flaws, which is so rarely the case with natural gem rough, that >> it >> isn't worth talking about. It is however the first step in what may be in >> a >> generation or two a system that might be useful in cutting stones. Now >> they >> have to work on the hard part, to somehow create a program that is smart >> enough to know all about cleavage, refractive index, dichroism, >> dispersion, >> inclusions, color zoning etc and to be able to take all this and to make >> reasonable judgements about how to get the most valuable stone out of the >> rough. Oh, and don't forget the demands of the market place and fashion >> that >> influince the kinds of stontes that are in fashion this year. I think >> this >> device will start to replace skilled stone cutters about the time they >> learn >> to cure the common cold which does not appear to be any time soon. >> Rock >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jr50wv at yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 13:15:51 2008 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Tue Apr 15 13:15:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Repaired/reattached/enhanced/repositioned/.....and the Italian question Message-ID: <362411.65891.qm@web56306.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: If you position the multiple crystals as they were in the vug, without gluing them together, you haven't repaired them, you've displayed them as they were discovered. If they're glued, they're repaired, in my book. Which is OK, it just needs to be out in front. As mentioned, you should probably mention that they aren't attached/glued on the label to avoid the unfortunate sundrome of friend looking at them, picking up one or two of them, thereby dropping one or two on the floor or countertop. You might want to put them in a small display box. I have several specimens way too fragile for handling, and they're tacked to the bottom of a display box. The good ones are in glass and walnut boxes and the less good ones are in plastic boxes, but they can't be mishandled casually. Regarding mineral shops in Italy (I don't know Italian geography enough to determine Tuscan from Florentine) there are a number (like 5 or 6?) of Italian mineral dealers selling specimens on John Veevaert's Trinity Minerals Auction site: http://mineral-auctions.com/ You can contact any of the participating dealers via the auction software, and they will probably be happy to refer you to other dealers closer to your planned vacation location(s). I've bought from at least 2 or 3 of the guys over the past year or two, and they seem like very upstanding mineral dealers, which is what I would expect from the fact that John V works with them. Hope this helps, JR between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From miolson47 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 15 17:09:52 2008 From: miolson47 at hotmail.com (marilyn olson) Date: Tue Apr 15 17:11:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny Message-ID: I am travelling to NY at the beginning of June and would like any info about quarries or sites to collect in. If there are any rock clubs with info or field trips that would be good too. thanks Marilyn _________________________________________________________________ Turn every day into $1000. Learn more at SignInAndWIN.ca http://g.msn.ca/ca55/213 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jr50wv at yahoo.com Tue Apr 15 17:31:54 2008 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Tue Apr 15 17:31:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips Message-ID: <220252.37395.qm@web56313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: Next month Martha and I plan a trip to New Mexico and NE AZ. We'll start in Santa Fe for 5 nights - there's a big Arts Festival one weekend -and then move slowly NW to visit many of the ancient cliff dwellings like Chaco Canyon, Canyon de Chelly and Bandolier National Monument. Obviously, I would be interested in any rock collecting opportunities in NW New Mexico or NE Arizona. Any tips or guidance will be appreciated. I hope to have a 4x4 SUV but you know Budget has a different idea about such vehicles than I (we) do. So anyone with ideas or suggestions about collecting in the northern reaches of these states, please pass them along. I know most mining has been in the southern ends of both states, but many collectible things aren't really mining related. Anyone planning to be around Santa Fe around May 22-26, let me know, I'll buy a round of cold ones! Thanks in advance! JR between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rocknate at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 19:00:07 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Tue Apr 15 19:00:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips In-Reply-To: <220252.37395.qm@web56313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <220252.37395.qm@web56313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: JR, The Harding Pegmatite near Dixon, NM has the prettiest rose colored muscovite I have ever seen. The property was donated by Art Montgomery to the University of New Mexico and you can collect there by making arrangements through them. Check out their web pages at http://epswww.unm.edu/harding/harding.htm I don't remember you being into micros but the New Mexico issue of Min. Record had an article about the top 10 micromount localities that I used to find some other interesting and accessible collecting localities. One that I visited was East Grants Ridge in Cibola County, NM. It was a big boulder field with lots of vuggy rhyolite containing tiny quartz, garnet and sometimes topaz crystals. There are some specimen photos on mindat at http://www.mindat.org/gallery.php?loc=33596 Neither of the above localities required 4WD (at least not 10 years ago when I was there). Wherever you go you will be treated to some of the most beautiful scenery on the planet. Enjoy every minute of your trip! Nate Martin Lexington, MA On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:31 PM, J. R. Hodel wrote: > Hi: > > Next month Martha and I plan a trip to New Mexico and NE AZ. We'll start > in Santa Fe for 5 nights - there's a big Arts Festival one weekend -and then > move slowly NW to visit many of the ancient cliff dwellings like Chaco > Canyon, Canyon de Chelly and Bandolier National Monument. > > Obviously, I would be interested in any rock collecting opportunities in > NW New Mexico or NE Arizona. Any tips or guidance will be appreciated. I > hope to have a 4x4 SUV but you know Budget has a different idea about such > vehicles than I (we) do. > > So anyone with ideas or suggestions about collecting in the northern > reaches of these states, please pass them along. I know most mining has > been in the southern ends of both states, but many collectible things aren't > really mining related. Anyone planning to be around Santa Fe around May > 22-26, let me know, I'll buy a round of cold ones! > > Thanks in advance! > > JR > between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Tue Apr 15 20:06:37 2008 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Tue Apr 15 20:06:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smokey Mtns May 10 thru 25 Message-ID: Jeanette and I have a trip planned up one side of the Smokies and down the other in May. Actually we will be driving from Mobile, AL to Hershey, PA and back. We have allowed ourselves about a week each way and plan to rockhound, visit some histerical sites including Gettysburg and others, visit family in Hershey, and maybe tent camp a couple of nights each direction. If you have suggestions for great rockhounding and or other places or sites we must see, please share with us. Maybe we can even meet a couple of ya'll for a short field trip or at least a meal along the way. Please also wish us luck as I have just gotten out of the hospital. No surgery or cancer, but plenty of pain from an acute prostate infection. (Nuttin "cute" about it.) We will be traveling in a 4WD Honda Pilot so we can do a bit of light off-roading if we find the right opportunity. Thanks for your suggestions in advance! Glenn & Jeanette Wimpee _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Apr 15 21:07:46 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Apr 15 21:01:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ideal Mineral Cabinet References: <624022.22499.qm@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004001c89dcd$50288b30$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> Message-ID: <480579F7.5A82@Tomaszewski.net> I hired an expert cabinetmaker to build a custom display case for our front hallway. It sits opposit the china cabinet. Hardwood, lighted, with mirrored backs in the cabinet. It has eight sections (4 up, 4 down) with glass doors and adjustable glass shelves. It houses my systematic collection of minerals. Roughly 6 tall x 9 wide x 1 ft deep. My wife insisted it be top quality, and it took a couple years of saving to pay for it. It is starting to run out of room. My very best specimens are in a small, wall mounted (at eye level), cabinet in the living room. Most of the rest of the collection is in the basement. I have a bunch of shelving mounted on walls, including 3 inch deep units mounted behind doors, and the front couple inches of bookcases. I have several larger cabinets. My micromounts are in flats stored in a large tupperware box, and my classroom traveling collection is in flats stored in several other tupperware boxes. Some of the larger specimens are yard rocks. The rest is in the garage in boxes and flats. I'm running out of room for the collection and hope to take over some of the kids bedrooms as they move out; my wife says I have way too many specimens. Kreigh Rock Currier wrote: > > Some thoughts about mineral specimen display cases. > > Armando, > > OK, Now I know where you are coming from. Sort of where I was a few years > back. Your collection is probably now worth more than your house and you > have everything from micros to large cabinet specimens. I can't tell you > what to do, but perhaps I can make a few comments and suggestions that you > may find helpful. You may want to build some wooden cabinets, perhaps with > drawers below and a small glass fronted display space on top. You probably > should not stint on the quality of the wood and the craftsmanship of the > cabinets. If you make them look like fine pieces of furniture, it will make > your collection look important and this will help preserve the collection > should ever fall into the hands of someone who doesn't know much about > specimens. In other words it will increase the half-life of your collection. > > Suggestions about materials & construction. > > If you want you can make them all from good quality hardwoods, although I > have found that using a good grade plywood with a nice hardwood veneer for > the sides, top, bottom and the same for the drawers is OK. I think that a > good grade of plywood may save you from some warping in the long run and I > think it is as strong as solid hardwood. Don't let whoever makes them for > you use any particleboard or fiberboard for the backs of your cabinets or > bottoms of your drawers. Make sure that the guy making them understands that > the bottoms of the drawers should not be just tacked on. These will need to > carry some weight. After all you are going to be putting rocks in these > things. If you explain it to him in those terms, he will understand. However > make sure that the fronts of the drawers are all a good quality hard wood. > If you use fronts with a veneer, they will chip and peal over time. The > front edges of the top, sides and bottoms of the plywood frame should also > be covered with a half-inch thick strip of the same wood that the drawer > fronts are made from to prevent chipping and pealing. I personally don't > like to use drawer pulls because in time one or more of them tend to get > knocked off. I prefer an undercut on the drawer bottoms that your finger > tips can use to tug open the drawers. Also drawer pulls collect dust. Use > good quality fully extensible roller bearings with stops so that you can > pull your drawers out all the way and have easy access to the specimens in > the back of your drawers. There is relatively new kind that will roll the > drawer closed after you have started it back and seat it firmly closed. Very > nice. After I get my cabinets in place, I cover the tops with a sheet of > plate glass. This makes it easy to keep the top clean and keeps the tops of > the cabinets from being scratched by specimens that always seem to end up on > top of them. > > Notes on the size of the cabinets and drawers. > > For those of us who collect different size specimens, there has always been > the problem of how to accommodate different size specimens in the same > drawers. To do this you need different size boxes for your specimens and > usually drawers of different heights, with the deep drawers usually reserved > for the larger specimens. You will have to find and select the kinds of > boxes that you want to store your specimens in. Ward's boxes were designed > to efficiently hold different kinds of specimens with two of the next > smaller size fitting exactly the space of the next larger size. > > The drawers will need to be of various depths to generally accommodate your > different size specimens. Usually making them all deep enough for your > largest specimens will involve a lot of wasted space and I don't know of > anyone who has ever gone that rout. If you want to make cabinets for > miniatures and micromounts you can make the drawers quite shallow and that > will cover your needs. If you collect micros you should probably make the > drawers not all that big and make them so that they can easily be removed > and taken to a microscope for study. All my micro drawers can accommodate > TNs and micros. To accommodate TN, I just lift out the wooden micro insert > (tray) in the bottom of the drawer and this allows a little extra depth for > the slightly taller TN boxes. The micro insert has little wooden strips, > left to right on it that act as little separators for the micro boxes so you > can pick them up easily. When you lift out the micro insert tray you see the > little wooden strips that run side to side on the bottom of the drawer, to > act as little separators for rows of TN boxes. > > For larger specimens I would recommend that you make the drawers no > shallower than 3.25 inches. As for the side to side and front to back > measurements I would recommend the drawer be not less than about 24 inches > side to side and no less than 18 inches front to back. These would be inside > measurements. The reason for this is that those measurements will > accommodate placing two standard size flats side by side inside the drawer. > You don't have to place your specimens in flats and those flats in the > drawers, but I have found this feature quite handy by experience. I would > recommend that some of the drawers be a little deeper, say 4 or 4.5 inches > and one at the bottom to be at least six inched deep. You may wish to have a > locking mechanism built into your cabinet. There are a number of options > here and you cabinetmaker can probably give you a range of suggestions about > these. You may wish to have doors on the front of your cabinet that you can > swing shut and lock if you want. You may want to have a small glass fronted > display shelf built into the top of your sets of drawers where you can > display some of your larger or better specimens or just your most recent > additions. I did this and had the back and sides of this little display > section backed and sided with mirrors. This helps with the lighting. You can > also put built in lighting in this section of your display case if you wish. > You may wish to make your specimen drawers modular and stackable. I have > done this with my micro cabinets and it has worked out quite well. The > modular concept usually has a base unit that gets the drawers up off the > ground by four or five inches and allows for a little kick space at the > front floor of the cabinet. It also has a cap unit that covers up the top of > the cabinets. This cabinet cap is usually no more than two or three inches > high. The modular concept is also handy when it comes time to move the > cabinets. If each unit is no more than 16 to 20 inches high, they are a lot > easier to move than one large cabinet. Also you could have some modules with > thin drawers for micros and TNs, some with 3.25 inch drawers and others with > 4.5 or six inch drawers. You can then stack those units in columns of > various or the same height Usually the construction of modular units > requires a higher degree of precision for their manufacture than regular > cabinets. > > I hope the above may be of some use to you. > > Rock > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Apr 16 01:21:51 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 16 01:26:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Smokey Mtns May 10 thru 25 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001201c89f9a$ec397e70$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Glenn & Jeanette, You signed "Glenn & Jeanette" after writing: > Please also wish us luck as I have just gotten out of the > hospital. No surgery or cancer, but plenty of pain from an > acute prostate infection. (Nuttin "cute" about it.) I'm gonna go guess that it was you ,Glenn, who had the infection... ;-))) Get better soon or even better; get well. Have a great trip. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Glenn Wimpee > Verzonden: woensdag 16 april 2008 4:07 > Aan: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Smokey Mtns May 10 thru 25 > > Jeanette and I have a trip planned up one side of the Smokies > and down the other in May. > > Actually we will be driving from Mobile, AL to Hershey, PA and back. > > We have allowed ourselves about a week each way and plan to > rockhound, visit some histerical sites including Gettysburg > and others, visit family in Hershey, and maybe tent camp a > couple of nights each direction. > > If you have suggestions for great rockhounding and or other > places or sites we must see, please share with us. > > Maybe we can even meet a couple of ya'll for a short field > trip or at least a meal along the way. > > Please also wish us luck as I have just gotten out of the > hospital. No surgery or cancer, but plenty of pain from an > acute prostate infection. (Nuttin "cute" about it.) > > We will be traveling in a 4WD Honda Pilot so we can do a bit > of light off-roading if we find the right opportunity. > > Thanks for your suggestions in advance! > Glenn & Jeanette Wimpee > _________________________________________________________________ > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live > Messenger. > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?oci d=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From magnet at crocoite.com Wed Apr 16 03:23:18 2008 From: magnet at crocoite.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?magnet?=) Date: Wed Apr 16 03:25:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ideal Mineral Cabinet Message-ID: <20080416102318.25508.qmail@webmachine101.com> Kreigh wrote --> I'm running out of room for the collection and hope to take over some of the kids bedrooms as they move out; my wife says I have way too many specimens. Know what you mean Kreigh. We will be free of both of our kids in a month or so. We are building a new house just for the two of us (and the dog of course) but the new house is going to be about 30% bigger than the one we are in now! I will have my rockroom (bedroom 3) and my wife Diane will have her 'rockroom' (she calls it that but it will be full of patchwork material!) in bedroom 4. That leaves bedroom 1 for us and bedroom 2 for the dog, or is it for when the kids come to visit? Hmmmm. Regards Steve Check out Steve's Spot at http://crocoite.blogspot.com/ > -------Original Message------- > From: Kreigh Tomaszewski > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Ideal Mineral Cabinet > Sent: 15 Apr '08 18:07 > > I hired an expert cabinetmaker to build a custom display case for our > front hallway. It sits opposit the china cabinet. Hardwood, lighted, > with mirrored backs in the cabinet. It has eight sections (4 up, 4 down) > with glass doors and adjustable glass shelves. It houses my systematic > collection of minerals. Roughly 6 tall x 9 wide x 1 ft deep. My wife > insisted it be top quality, and it took a couple years of saving to pay > for it. It is starting to run out of room. > > My very best specimens are in a small, wall mounted (at eye level), > cabinet in the living room. > > Most of the rest of the collection is in the basement. I have a bunch of > shelving mounted on walls, including 3 inch deep units mounted behind > doors, and the front couple inches of bookcases. I have several larger > cabinets. My micromounts are in flats stored in a large tupperware box, > and my classroom traveling collection is in flats stored in several > other tupperware boxes. > > Some of the larger specimens are yard rocks. The rest is in the garage > in boxes and flats. > > > > > > > Rock Currier wrote: > > > > Some thoughts about mineral specimen display cases. > > > > Armando, > > > > OK, Now I know where you are coming from. Sort of where I was a few years > > back. Your collection is probably now worth more than your house and you > > have everything from micros to large cabinet specimens. I can't tell you > > what to do, but perhaps I can make a few comments and suggestions that you > > may find helpful. You may want to build some wooden cabinets, perhaps with > > drawers below and a small glass fronted display space on top. You probably > > should not stint on the quality of the wood and the craftsmanship of the > > cabinets. If you make them look like fine pieces of furniture, it will make > > your collection look important and this will help preserve the collection > > should ever fall into the hands of someone who doesn't know much about > > specimens. In other words it will increase the half-life of your collection. > > > > Suggestions about materials & construction. > > > > If you want you can make them all from good quality hardwoods, although I > > have found that using a good grade plywood with a nice hardwood veneer for > > the sides, top, bottom and the same for the drawers is OK. I think that a > > good grade of plywood may save you from some warping in the long run and I > > think it is as strong as solid hardwood. Don't let whoever makes them for > > you use any particleboard or fiberboard for the backs of your cabinets or > > bottoms of your drawers. Make sure that the guy making them understands that > > the bottoms of the drawers should not be just tacked on. These will need to > > carry some weight. After all you are going to be putting rocks in these > > things. If you explain it to him in those terms, he will understand. However > > make sure that the fronts of the drawers are all a good quality hard wood. > > If you use fronts with a veneer, they will chip and peal over time. The > > front edges of the top, sides and bottoms of the plywood frame should also > > be covered with a half-inch thick strip of the same wood that the drawer > > fronts are made from to prevent chipping and pealing. I personally don't > > like to use drawer pulls because in time one or more of them tend to get > > knocked off. I prefer an undercut on the drawer bottoms that your finger > > tips can use to tug open the drawers. Also drawer pulls collect dust. Use > > good quality fully extensible roller bearings with stops so that you can > > pull your drawers out all the way and have easy access to the specimens in > > the back of your drawers. There is relatively new kind that will roll the > > drawer closed after you have started it back and seat it firmly closed. Very > > nice. After I get my cabinets in place, I cover the tops with a sheet of > > plate glass. This makes it easy to keep the top clean and keeps the tops of > > the cabinets from being scratched by specimens that always seem to end up on > > top of them. > > > > Notes on the size of the cabinets and drawers. > > > > For those of us who collect different size specimens, there has always been > > the problem of how to accommodate different size specimens in the same > > drawers. To do this you need different size boxes for your specimens and > > usually drawers of different heights, with the deep drawers usually reserved > > for the larger specimens. You will have to find and select the kinds of > > boxes that you want to store your specimens in. Ward's boxes were designed > > to efficiently hold different kinds of specimens with two of the next > > smaller size fitting exactly the space of the next larger size. > > > > The drawers will need to be of various depths to generally accommodate your > > different size specimens. Usually making them all deep enough for your > > largest specimens will involve a lot of wasted space and I don't know of > > anyone who has ever gone that rout. If you want to make cabinets for > > miniatures and micromounts you can make the drawers quite shallow and that > > will cover your needs. If you collect micros you should probably make the > > drawers not all that big and make them so that they can easily be removed > > and taken to a microscope for study. All my micro drawers can accommodate > > TNs and micros. To accommodate TN, I just lift out the wooden micro insert > > (tray) in the bottom of the drawer and this allows a little extra depth for > > the slightly taller TN boxes. The micro insert has little wooden strips, > > left to right on it that act as little separators for the micro boxes so you > > can pick them up easily. When you lift out the micro insert tray you see the > > little wooden strips that run side to side on the bottom of the drawer, to > > act as little separators for rows of TN boxes. > > > > For larger specimens I would recommend that you make the drawers no > > shallower than 3.25 inches. As for the side to side and front to back > > measurements I would recommend the drawer be not less than about 24 inches > > side to side and no less than 18 inches front to back. These would be inside > > measurements. The reason for this is that those measurements will > > accommodate placing two standard size flats side by side inside the drawer. > > You don't have to place your specimens in flats and those flats in the > > drawers, but I have found this feature quite handy by experience. I would > > recommend that some of the drawers be a little deeper, say 4 or 4.5 inches > > and one at the bottom to be at least six inched deep. You may wish to have a > > locking mechanism built into your cabinet. There are a number of options > > here and you cabinetmaker can probably give you a range of suggestions about > > these. You may wish to have doors on the front of your cabinet that you can > > swing shut and lock if you want. You may want to have a small glass fronted > > display shelf built into the top of your sets of drawers where you can > > display some of your larger or better specimens or just your most recent > > additions. I did this and had the back and sides of this little display > > section backed and sided with mirrors. This helps with the lighting. You can > > also put built in lighting in this section of your display case if you wish. > > You may wish to make your specimen drawers modular and stackable. I have > > done this with my micro cabinets and it has worked out quite well. The > > modular concept usually has a base unit that gets the drawers up off the > > ground by four or five inches and allows for a little kick space at the > > front floor of the cabinet. It also has a cap unit that covers up the top of > > the cabinets. This cabinet cap is usually no more than two or three inches > > high. The modular concept is also handy when it comes time to move the > > cabinets. If each unit is no more than 16 to 20 inches high, they are a lot > > easier to move than one large cabinet. Also you could have some modules with > > thin drawers for micros and TNs, some with 3.25 inch drawers and others with > > 4.5 or six inch drawers. You can then stack those units in columns of > > various or the same height Usually the construction of modular units > > requires a higher degree of precision for their manufacture than regular > > cabinets. > > > > I hope the above may be of some use to you. > > > > Rock > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 16 06:41:06 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Apr 16 06:43:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny References: Message-ID: <000601c89fc7$85c86430$0200000a@LarryRush> Marilyn: The Crystal Grove Campground is still good for digging Herkimer Diamonds. It's north of St. Johnsville. The Middletown Herkimer site is good, but is much harder work. Both are fee sites, with camping facilities. See the Crystal Grove web site for details. Also look up the Fulton County Mineral Club on the web. Members there can help with sites in the Eastern NY area. Larry Rush ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "marilyn olson" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:09 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny I am travelling to NY at the beginning of June and would like any info about quarries or sites to collect in. If there are any rock clubs with info or field trips that would be good too. thanks Marilyn _________________________________________________________________ Turn every day into $1000. Learn more at SignInAndWIN.ca http://g.msn.ca/ca55/213 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From brenick at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 06:58:05 2008 From: brenick at gmail.com (Brenda Van Dyke) Date: Wed Apr 16 06:58:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Ideal Mineral Cabinet In-Reply-To: <480579F7.5A82@Tomaszewski.net> References: <624022.22499.qm@web34203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004001c89dcd$50288b30$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> <480579F7.5A82@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <97175ae90804160658s200aa823id309627c5877a8ea@mail.gmail.com> Kreigh was kind enough to invite his fellow club members to his house for a "basement field trip" last year(?) My husband and I went on this trip. What a joy! All the "trips" were excellent. Kriegh's collection is to be in awe of; I especially, was delighted with his beautiful cabinet! I have a dream... :o) Brenda On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 12:07 AM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > I hired an expert cabinetmaker to build a custom display case for our > front hallway. It sits opposit the china cabinet. Hardwood, lighted, > with mirrored backs in the cabinet. It has eight sections (4 up, 4 down) > with glass doors and adjustable glass shelves. It houses my systematic > collection of minerals. Roughly 6 tall x 9 wide x 1 ft deep. My wife > insisted it be top quality, and it took a couple years of saving to pay > for it. It is starting to run out of room. > > My very best specimens are in a small, wall mounted (at eye level), > cabinet in the living room. > > Most of the rest of the collection is in the basement. I have a bunch of > shelving mounted on walls, including 3 inch deep units mounted behind > doors, and the front couple inches of bookcases. I have several larger > cabinets. My micromounts are in flats stored in a large tupperware box, > and my classroom traveling collection is in flats stored in several > other tupperware boxes. > > Some of the larger specimens are yard rocks. The rest is in the garage > in boxes and flats. > > I'm running out of room for the collection and hope to take over some of > the kids bedrooms as they move out; my wife says I have way too many > specimens. > > Kreigh > > > > > > Rock Currier wrote: > > > > Some thoughts about mineral specimen display cases. > > > > Armando, > > > > OK, Now I know where you are coming from. Sort of where I was a few > years > > back. Your collection is probably now worth more than your house and you > > have everything from micros to large cabinet specimens. I can't tell you > > what to do, but perhaps I can make a few comments and suggestions that > you > > may find helpful. You may want to build some wooden cabinets, perhaps > with > > drawers below and a small glass fronted display space on top. You > probably > > should not stint on the quality of the wood and the craftsmanship of the > > cabinets. If you make them look like fine pieces of furniture, it will > make > > your collection look important and this will help preserve the > collection > > should ever fall into the hands of someone who doesn't know much about > > specimens. In other words it will increase the half-life of your > collection. > > > > Suggestions about materials & construction. > > > > If you want you can make them all from good quality hardwoods, although > I > > have found that using a good grade plywood with a nice hardwood veneer > for > > the sides, top, bottom and the same for the drawers is OK. I think that > a > > good grade of plywood may save you from some warping in the long run and > I > > think it is as strong as solid hardwood. Don't let whoever makes them > for > > you use any particleboard or fiberboard for the backs of your cabinets > or > > bottoms of your drawers. Make sure that the guy making them understands > that > > the bottoms of the drawers should not be just tacked on. These will need > to > > carry some weight. After all you are going to be putting rocks in these > > things. If you explain it to him in those terms, he will understand. > However > > make sure that the fronts of the drawers are all a good quality hard > wood. > > If you use fronts with a veneer, they will chip and peal over time. The > > front edges of the top, sides and bottoms of the plywood frame should > also > > be covered with a half-inch thick strip of the same wood that the drawer > > fronts are made from to prevent chipping and pealing. I personally > don't > > like to use drawer pulls because in time one or more of them tend to get > > knocked off. I prefer an undercut on the drawer bottoms that your finger > > tips can use to tug open the drawers. Also drawer pulls collect dust. > Use > > good quality fully extensible roller bearings with stops so that you can > > pull your drawers out all the way and have easy access to the specimens > in > > the back of your drawers. There is relatively new kind that will roll > the > > drawer closed after you have started it back and seat it firmly closed. > Very > > nice. After I get my cabinets in place, I cover the tops with a sheet of > > plate glass. This makes it easy to keep the top clean and keeps the tops > of > > the cabinets from being scratched by specimens that always seem to end > up on > > top of them. > > > > Notes on the size of the cabinets and drawers. > > > > For those of us who collect different size specimens, there has always > been > > the problem of how to accommodate different size specimens in the same > > drawers. To do this you need different size boxes for your specimens and > > usually drawers of different heights, with the deep drawers usually > reserved > > for the larger specimens. You will have to find and select the kinds of > > boxes that you want to store your specimens in. Ward's boxes were > designed > > to efficiently hold different kinds of specimens with two of the next > > smaller size fitting exactly the space of the next larger size. > > > > The drawers will need to be of various depths to generally accommodate > your > > different size specimens. Usually making them all deep enough for your > > largest specimens will involve a lot of wasted space and I don't know of > > anyone who has ever gone that rout. If you want to make cabinets for > > miniatures and micromounts you can make the drawers quite shallow and > that > > will cover your needs. If you collect micros you should probably make > the > > drawers not all that big and make them so that they can easily be > removed > > and taken to a microscope for study. All my micro drawers can > accommodate > > TNs and micros. To accommodate TN, I just lift out the wooden micro > insert > > (tray) in the bottom of the drawer and this allows a little extra depth > for > > the slightly taller TN boxes. The micro insert has little wooden strips, > > left to right on it that act as little separators for the micro boxes so > you > > can pick them up easily. When you lift out the micro insert tray you see > the > > little wooden strips that run side to side on the bottom of the drawer, > to > > act as little separators for rows of TN boxes. > > > > For larger specimens I would recommend that you make the drawers no > > shallower than 3.25 inches. As for the side to side and front to back > > measurements I would recommend the drawer be not less than about 24 > inches > > side to side and no less than 18 inches front to back. These would be > inside > > measurements. The reason for this is that those measurements will > > accommodate placing two standard size flats side by side inside the > drawer. > > You don't have to place your specimens in flats and those flats in the > > drawers, but I have found this feature quite handy by experience. I > would > > recommend that some of the drawers be a little deeper, say 4 or 4.5 > inches > > and one at the bottom to be at least six inched deep. You may wish to > have a > > locking mechanism built into your cabinet. There are a number of options > > here and you cabinetmaker can probably give you a range of suggestions > about > > these. You may wish to have doors on the front of your cabinet that you > can > > swing shut and lock if you want. You may want to have a small glass > fronted > > display shelf built into the top of your sets of drawers where you can > > display some of your larger or better specimens or just your most recent > > additions. I did this and had the back and sides of this little display > > section backed and sided with mirrors. This helps with the lighting. You > can > > also put built in lighting in this section of your display case if you > wish. > > You may wish to make your specimen drawers modular and stackable. I have > > done this with my micro cabinets and it has worked out quite well. The > > modular concept usually has a base unit that gets the drawers up off the > > ground by four or five inches and allows for a little kick space at the > > front floor of the cabinet. It also has a cap unit that covers up the > top of > > the cabinets. This cabinet cap is usually no more than two or three > inches > > high. The modular concept is also handy when it comes time to move the > > cabinets. If each unit is no more than 16 to 20 inches high, they are a > lot > > easier to move than one large cabinet. Also you could have some modules > with > > thin drawers for micros and TNs, some with 3.25 inch drawers and others > with > > 4.5 or six inch drawers. You can then stack those units in columns of > > various or the same height Usually the construction of modular units > > requires a higher degree of precision for their manufacture than regular > > cabinets. > > > > I hope the above may be of some use to you. > > > > Rock > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Wed Apr 16 08:14:00 2008 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Wed Apr 16 08:13:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of small fossils, 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field continues to be the major challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy the $25,000 camera system made to do the job, take the picture 3 meters away from the specimen and blow up the image, or take multiple shots, focusing on different areas, and stitch them together with Helicon, Combine-Z, or the expensive new version of PhotoShop. All are basically horrible options. So, is there anything new and interesting in the world of digital photography that's giving depth of field to macrophotography in a simple, affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a Canon Digital Rebel with a 50mm macro lens.) Many thanks for any info! Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Business: http://www.element51.com Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 08:24:12 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Apr 16 08:25:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: That should just be a lighting problem. Grazing light should add some shadow relief to the fossils. I don't understand why you would need to stitch shots together unless you are shooting a plate of fossils that is too large to fit in the lens field of view. If you have a group of shots that you want to stitch get with me off list and I can do some for you since I do have that expensive CS3 software. There is freeware stitching software, you pay in usability tho. BK On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. > > I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of small > fossils, 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field continues to be > the major challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy the $25,000 > camera system made to do the job, take the picture 3 meters away from the > specimen and blow up the image, or take multiple shots, focusing on > different areas, and stitch them together with Helicon, Combine-Z, or the > expensive new version of PhotoShop. > > All are basically horrible options. > > So, is there anything new and interesting in the world of digital > photography that's giving depth of field to macrophotography in a simple, > affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a Canon Digital Rebel with a > 50mm macro lens.) > > Many thanks for any info! > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Business: http://www.element51.com > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Wed Apr 16 08:50:23 2008 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Wed Apr 16 08:50:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny In-Reply-To: <000601c89fc7$85c86430$0200000a@LarryRush> References: <000601c89fc7$85c86430$0200000a@LarryRush> Message-ID: Marilyn: Just a small correction to Larry's note about the "Middletown Herkimer site"--its "Middle-VILLE, not Middletown Herkimer. Both the Crystal Grove Campground and the two comercial sites north of Herkimer are in Herkimer County; Middletown, NY is located in Sullivan County (Catskills) and as far as I know has never produced a doubly-terminated quartz crystal. Donald L. Tuttle > From: larryrush@worldnet.att.net > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:41:06 -0400 > > Marilyn: The Crystal Grove Campground is still good for digging Herkimer > Diamonds. It's north of St. Johnsville. The Middletown Herkimer site is > good, but is much harder work. Both are fee sites, with camping facilities. > See the Crystal Grove web site for details. Also look up the Fulton County > Mineral Club on the web. Members there can help with sites in the Eastern NY > area. > > Larry Rush > ================================== > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "marilyn olson" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:09 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny > > > > I am travelling to NY at the beginning of June and would like any info > about quarries or sites to collect in. If there are any rock clubs with > info or field trips that would be good too. thanks Marilyn > _________________________________________________________________ > Turn every day into $1000. Learn more at SignInAndWIN.ca > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/213 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 16 09:27:06 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Apr 16 09:29:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny References: <000601c89fc7$85c86430$0200000a@LarryRush> Message-ID: <000601c89fde$b67d4c00$0200000a@LarryRush> Thanks, Donald!! Too much lateness last night, not enough earliness today! Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Tuttle" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:50 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny Marilyn: Just a small correction to Larry's note about the "Middletown Herkimer site"--its "Middle-VILLE, not Middletown Herkimer. Both the Crystal Grove Campground and the two comercial sites north of Herkimer are in Herkimer County; Middletown, NY is located in Sullivan County (Catskills) and as far as I know has never produced a doubly-terminated quartz crystal. Donald L. Tuttle > From: larryrush@worldnet.att.net > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:41:06 -0400 > > Marilyn: The Crystal Grove Campground is still good for digging Herkimer > Diamonds. It's north of St. Johnsville. The Middletown Herkimer site is > good, but is much harder work. Both are fee sites, with camping > facilities. > See the Crystal Grove web site for details. Also look up the Fulton County > Mineral Club on the web. Members there can help with sites in the Eastern > NY > area. > > Larry Rush > ================================== > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "marilyn olson" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:09 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny > > > > I am travelling to NY at the beginning of June and would like any info > about quarries or sites to collect in. If there are any rock clubs with > info or field trips that would be good too. thanks Marilyn > _________________________________________________________________ > Turn every day into $1000. Learn more at SignInAndWIN.ca > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/213 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Wed Apr 16 10:23:30 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Wed Apr 16 10:23:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <33E0CF03-0B17-4CCC-9E41-EF3EC26F79B5@roadrunner.com> Hi Tim, There are no magic answers with the basics of digital photography; it is still bound by the same laws of the physics of light. However, for 1-3 cm fossils (or minerals) you shouldn't have a problem with that lens. Use enough light so you can stop the lens down to f16 to f32 and there will be more than enough depth of field for fossils of that size to be in focus. The depth of field focus problem is really only a problem when doing things smaller (micro fossils or minerals) so that you really need to magnify them, either with a microscope or extension tubes. On the odd occasion that you might need more depth of field, shoot two or three photos to get the front and back in focus and hand stitch the photos together in Photoshop or similar software. It doesn't take very long to do it by hand, I was doing that with micro minerals several years before automatic stitching software became available. It becomes a lot of work if you have several individual focus shots of each of several specimens, but for just two or three shots of an occasional "special" specimen, it's doesn't take very long. Regards, Lanny On Apr 16, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. > > I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of small > fossils, 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field continues > to be the major challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy > the $25,000 camera system made to do the job, take the picture 3 > meters away from the specimen and blow up the image, or take > multiple shots, focusing on different areas, and stitch them > together with Helicon, Combine-Z, or the expensive new version of > PhotoShop. > > All are basically horrible options. > > So, is there anything new and interesting in the world of digital > photography that's giving depth of field to macrophotography in a > simple, affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a Canon > Digital Rebel with a 50mm macro lens.) > > Many thanks for any info! > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Business: http://www.element51.com > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Wed Apr 16 10:26:14 2008 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Wed Apr 16 10:26:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny In-Reply-To: <000601c89fde$b67d4c00$0200000a@LarryRush> References: <000601c89fc7$85c86430$0200000a@LarryRush> <000601c89fde$b67d4c00$0200000a@LarryRush> Message-ID: OK, Larry. I know the lateness-earliness feeling well. I first collected at the Crystal Grove site in St. Johnsville in the late 70's, long before the site went commercial. One trip, I traded the farmer who owned the property a bushel of apples for a bushel of crystals we gleaned from the furrows he plowed with his tractor. Several of those crystals, some as big as 4-5" end to end, are among my most treasured specimens. Today, Marilyn should be so lucky! Donald L. Tuttle PO Box 548 Unadilla, NY 13849 > From: larryrush@worldnet.att.net > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:27:06 -0400 > > Thanks, Donald!! Too much lateness last night, not enough earliness today! > > Larry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donald Tuttle" > To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:50 AM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny > > > > Marilyn: Just a small correction to Larry's note about the "Middletown > Herkimer site"--its "Middle-VILLE, not Middletown Herkimer. Both the > Crystal Grove Campground and the two commercial sites north of Herkimer are in Herkimer County; Middletown, NY is located in Sullivan County (Catskills), and as far as I know has never produced a doubly-terminated quartz crystal. > > Donald L. Tuttle > > > > From: larryrush@worldnet.att.net > > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny > > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:41:06 -0400 > > > > Marilyn: The Crystal Grove Campground is still good for digging Herkimer > > Diamonds. It's north of St. Johnsville. The Middletown Herkimer site is > > good, but is much harder work. Both are fee sites, with camping > > facilities. > > See the Crystal Grove web site for details. Also look up the Fulton County > > Mineral Club on the web. Members there can help with sites in the Eastern > > NY > > area. > > > > Larry Rush > > ================================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "marilyn olson" > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:09 PM > > Subject: [Rockhounds] rockhounding info about ny > > > > > > > > I am travelling to NY at the beginning of June and would like any info > > about quarries or sites to collect in. If there are any rock clubs with > > info or field trips that would be good too. thanks Marilyn > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Turn every day into $1000. Learn more at SignInAndWIN.ca > > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/213 > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653A --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From cycadwood at aol.com Wed Apr 16 10:43:48 2008 From: cycadwood at aol.com (Frank Daniels) Date: Wed Apr 16 10:50:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <33E0CF03-0B17-4CCC-9E41-EF3EC26F79B5@roadrunner.com> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <33E0CF03-0B17-4CCC-9E41-EF3EC26F79B5@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <00ab01c89fe9$6dedda80$49c98f80$@com> I get good results with cabinet-sized specimens using a 100mm macro lens (non-digital 35mm) on a 10.2 mp camera (small sensor/Pentax 10D) at F32. Frank FRANK DANIELS MINERALS & FOSSILS 2024 Freedom Court Grand Junction, CO 81503-9522 minerals@FrankDanielsMinerals.com www.FrankDanielsMinerals.com -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lanny R Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:24 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? Hi Tim, There are no magic answers with the basics of digital photography; it is still bound by the same laws of the physics of light. However, for 1-3 cm fossils (or minerals) you shouldn't have a problem with that lens. Use enough light so you can stop the lens down to f16 to f32 and there will be more than enough depth of field for fossils of that size to be in focus. The depth of field focus problem is really only a problem when doing things smaller (micro fossils or minerals) so that you really need to magnify them, either with a microscope or extension tubes. On the odd occasion that you might need more depth of field, shoot two or three photos to get the front and back in focus and hand stitch the photos together in Photoshop or similar software. It doesn't take very long to do it by hand, I was doing that with micro minerals several years before automatic stitching software became available. It becomes a lot of work if you have several individual focus shots of each of several specimens, but for just two or three shots of an occasional "special" specimen, it's doesn't take very long. Regards, Lanny On Apr 16, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. > > I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of small > fossils, 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field continues > to be the major challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy > the $25,000 camera system made to do the job, take the picture 3 > meters away from the specimen and blow up the image, or take > multiple shots, focusing on different areas, and stitch them > together with Helicon, Combine-Z, or the expensive new version of > PhotoShop. > > All are basically horrible options. > > So, is there anything new and interesting in the world of digital > photography that's giving depth of field to macrophotography in a > simple, affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a Canon > Digital Rebel with a 50mm macro lens.) > > Many thanks for any info! > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Business: http://www.element51.com > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Apr 16 11:33:47 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 16 11:36:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Tim, The problem is real but exists mainly in our minds. A photo is a flat object thus our mind expects it to be in focus all over when we look at it. Nonetheless, if the photo is a macroscopy of something that is 1 cm wide and has 1 cm of depth, than it would NOT be a good reproduction of reality if it were ALL in focus. Take out the fossil and look at it with just a loupe or even the naked eye... There is no way that you can get view that is "sharp" all over "at once". You focus on one point at a time and that point is in focus along with all the other points at equal distances from your eye. If you want to reproduce reality, you should be prepared to make sacrifices. Making background and foreground out of focus while providing a solid focus on the subject firmly "places" the subject in the reality that you want to show the viewer. Look at my photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22753159@N04/2212174499/in/set-7215760378477153 7/ (you may have to unwrap) Or http://www.flickr.com/photos/22753159@N04/2212174565/in/set-7215760370425562 9/ Both photos show distinct gradients in sharpness. These out of focus zones assist the viewer's mind in designating an hierarchy of depth-levels...to place the object in space, relative to the other objects in the picture that are either in or out of focus. If you "stack" images to obtain overall sharpness, you forfeit the reference points that allows the viewers to "spatialise" the object in their minds. In some rare instances you may want to let the didactic aspect prevail. Sometimes you just have to show the full detail for the sake of science... Say an insect included in amber or for that matter, any inclusion in any transparent mineral. I think that the use of stacking software for such purpose could very well be deemed permissible. However, I'm a fervent advocate of integrity in all aspects of life... I guess you can hear me coming ;-)) Each and every photo that is a result of stacking software or HDR tools should be labeled as such. (yes, period). The author of the photo should volunteer the information upon publication in any form without the viewer having to inquire about it. There you have it, my two Eurocents ;-))) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Tim Jokela Jr. > Verzonden: woensdag 16 april 2008 16:14 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? > > This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. > > I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of > small fossils, 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of > field continues to be the major challenge. He suggested three > ways of doing it: buy the $25,000 camera system made to do > the job, take the picture 3 meters away from the specimen and > blow up the image, or take multiple shots, focusing on > different areas, and stitch them together with Helicon, > Combine-Z, or the expensive new version of PhotoShop. > > All are basically horrible options. > > So, is there anything new and interesting in the world of > digital photography that's giving depth of field to > macrophotography in a simple, affordable manner? (My weapon > of choice atm is a Canon Digital Rebel with a 50mm macro lens.) > > Many thanks for any info! > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Business: http://www.element51.com > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Apr 16 11:39:53 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 16 11:49:09 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <33E0CF03-0B17-4CCC-9E41-EF3EC26F79B5@roadrunner.com> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <33E0CF03-0B17-4CCC-9E41-EF3EC26F79B5@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <003101c89ff1$430d29d0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Lanny, Using f32 will reduce sharpness rather than increase it. This is due to refraction of light around the edges of the iris. You can demonstrate the effect by punching a hole in a cardboard with a perforator and making one with a pin or small nail. Looking through both of them at a distant object will clarify my point. Lenses usually perform best at mid-range f-stops... F8 or 11. Verily low f numbers yield low depth of field but extreme resolution of detail due to the above effect of refraction. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Lanny R > Verzonden: woensdag 16 april 2008 18:24 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? > > Hi Tim, > > There are no magic answers with the basics of digital > photography; it is still bound by the same laws of the > physics of light. > > However, for 1-3 cm fossils (or minerals) you shouldn't have > a problem with that lens. Use enough light so you can stop > the lens down to f16 to f32 and there will be more than > enough depth of field for fossils of that size to be in > focus. The depth of field focus problem is > really only a problem when doing things smaller (micro fossils or > minerals) so that you really need to magnify them, either > with a microscope or extension tubes. > > On the odd occasion that you might need more depth of field, > shoot two or three photos to get the front and back in focus > and hand stitch the photos together in Photoshop or similar > software. It doesn't take very long to do it by hand, I was > doing that with micro minerals several years before automatic > stitching software became available. It becomes a lot of work > if you have several individual focus shots of each of several > specimens, but for just two or three shots of an occasional > "special" specimen, it's doesn't take very long. > > Regards, > > Lanny > > > On Apr 16, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > > This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. > > > > I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of small > > fossils, 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field > continues > > to be the major challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy > > the $25,000 camera system made to do the job, take the picture 3 > > meters away from the specimen and blow up the image, or > take multiple > > shots, focusing on different areas, and stitch them together with > > Helicon, Combine-Z, or the expensive new version of PhotoShop. > > > > All are basically horrible options. > > > > So, is there anything new and interesting in the world of digital > > photography that's giving depth of field to macrophotography in a > > simple, affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a > Canon Digital > > Rebel with a 50mm macro lens.) > > > > Many thanks for any info! > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Business: http://www.element51.com > > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From therockhunter at hotmail.com Wed Apr 16 12:03:06 2008 From: therockhunter at hotmail.com (B & B) Date: Wed Apr 16 12:07:54 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Machines In-Reply-To: <000d01c89a54$3996e5a0$765560d0@pfdwc5i74nxh3d> References: <000d01c89a54$3996e5a0$765560d0@pfdwc5i74nxh3d> Message-ID: Hello I have a question regarding Lapidary equipment. I am wondering that on some of the laps where people are putting carpets down they are using different ones. I have seen grey ones that look like a heavy fleece, the green ones look like a indoor outdoor carpet. The reason for the difference is it for different grit and polishing compound or is it just a personal preference. Thanks for all for you help and information in advance Black Wolf & White Wolf Robert & Betty Sign in and you could WIN! Enter for your chance to win $1000 every day. Visit SignInAndWIN.ca today to learn more! _________________________________________________________________ If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Wed Apr 16 12:24:14 2008 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Wed Apr 16 12:24:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <000901c89ff7$74fdd5b0$5ef98110$@dillen@skynet.be> Hi Axel (& others, of course), In fact Axel knows already my opinion. My point of (unstacked) view is not opposite, but quite different from Axel's (which does not mean that we aren't good friends :>). I have no objection against stacking software, and for me it is not even necessary to mention the used technique. Here are my arguments : 1. When we look at a specimen and we need a depth of view, we move, turn etc. the specimen, and our brain/memory makes a stack of the images, creating in that way a more or less 3-D view of the specimen. Stacking software does (about) the same thing on a photo. 2. When we take an analogous photo (meaning : with a classical camera, on film) we narrow artificially the aperture, and use a much higher exposure time to obtain a higher depth of focus (taking into account Axel's arguments in his second message). Stacking software pursues the same goal, using different means. 3. Imagine that you would be able to have a heterogeneous lens, meaning that the focal distance would change gradually from the centre towards the edge of the lens, than you would be able to make a photo where a crystal in the centre would be sharp in focus, and the background material towards the edges of the lens as well, because the focal distance would be adapted. Of course, such a lens would have to be designed just to take one photo :>) Such a photo would not be considered as "not permissible"... however the only difference would be that other means have been used for (something like) the same result as if you follow the way of stacking software. 4. The depth of focus of our eyes is far better than that of a camera. This means that a photo (not stacked) does show in fact even less than your eyes would see directly. In fact the depth of focus of human eyes is perhaps not "far better", but the brains combine the images of both eyes... in fact what we see is a "stack" of two images... a photo shows only one image instead of a combination of two. 5. Any photographer would have no objection to a photographic panoramic view. Again, this is an example of something that we would not be able to see with our eyes. Also that is a case of stacked photos, but instead of stacking them in a sophisticated way by software, they are combined one aside of the other, and the edges merged in the darkroom (or digitally). 6. The purpose of a photo has, IMHO, always some didactical purpose, and therefore, the more detailed information one can show clearly in one photo, the better. Even if that necessitates the use of stacking software. On the condition, however, that nothing is shown that wasn't there in reality. Then it would become fake. 7. Perhaps the most important of my arguments is that a stacked composition of photos shows nothing that was not really present, therefore for me nothing is wrong with such type of imaging. And I admit that there is, as always, some sort of a gray zone : what about the correction of a wrongly tuned color temperature ? What about enhancing sharpness, contrast etc ? What about the use of a "soft focus" lens, that reduces sharpness artificially ? Those things are done digitally, but were done as well in the dark room in the last century. Also in analogous photography many techniques produce images that are not exactly as the naked eye would see. On the other hand I want to emphasize on the fact that I don't even have any stacking software, and so far I did never use it. Since the time I have a decent digital camera I did not have the time to do much about photography of minerals. So I am not defending "my technique". I hope to get to mineral photography as soon as I will retire (that is 1 July 2010). And of course, this is just my opinion and interpretation of things, not the absolute truth. I think that this discussion is fruitful as such, and everyone has to distill his own conclusions from it. Best regards, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, ?B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen ? MINERANT 2008? -? 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 8:34 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? Tim, The problem is real but exists mainly in our minds. A photo is a flat object thus our mind expects it to be in focus all over when we look at it. Nonetheless, if the photo is a macroscopy of something that is 1 cm wide and has 1 cm of depth, than it would NOT be a good reproduction of reality if it were ALL in focus. Take out the fossil and look at it with just a loupe or even the naked eye... There is no way that you can get view that is "sharp" all over "at once". You focus on one point at a time and that point is in focus along with all the other points at equal distances from your eye. If you want to reproduce reality, you should be prepared to make sacrifices. Making background and foreground out of focus while providing a solid focus on the subject firmly "places" the subject in the reality that you want to show the viewer. Look at my photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22753159@N04/2212174499/in/set-7215760378477153 7/ (you may have to unwrap) Or http://www.flickr.com/photos/22753159@N04/2212174565/in/set-7215760370425562 9/ Both photos show distinct gradients in sharpness. These out of focus zones assist the viewer's mind in designating an hierarchy of depth-levels...to place the object in space, relative to the other objects in the picture that are either in or out of focus. If you "stack" images to obtain overall sharpness, you forfeit the reference points that allows the viewers to "spatialise" the object in their minds. In some rare instances you may want to let the didactic aspect prevail. Sometimes you just have to show the full detail for the sake of science... Say an insect included in amber or for that matter, any inclusion in any transparent mineral. I think that the use of stacking software for such purpose could very well be deemed permissible. However, I'm a fervent advocate of integrity in all aspects of life... I guess you can hear me coming ;-)) Each and every photo that is a result of stacking software or HDR tools should be labeled as such. (yes, period). The author of the photo should volunteer the information upon publication in any form without the viewer having to inquire about it. There you have it, my two Eurocents ;-))) Axel From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 12:55:07 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Apr 16 12:55:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <003101c89ff1$430d29d0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <33E0CF03-0B17-4CCC-9E41-EF3EC26F79B5@roadrunner.com> <003101c89ff1$430d29d0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: Quite right it's called diffraction limits over here. This page has an explanation with a calculator: Playing with that calculator will quickly show you why more megapixels are not always better. Some point and shoot cameras are always diffraction limited since the lens that they are supplied with is slower than the diffraction limit for that camera. And also why sensor size is so important. I rate myself as fairly knowledgeable in photoshop and what you are calling stitching is not what photoshop calls it. Stitching is adding photographs together to increase the width of the final shot, often called a panorama. It does not increase depth of field (DOF). Stacking has a couple of meanings but it is often used to add repeated shots together (often used in astrophotography) to increase the exposure while holding down camera sensor noise. In CS3 extended you can stack shots to eliminate moving objects. For example you can shoot ten shots of some street scene and by stacking them you can eliminate moving objects from the shot. Subtracting the tourists and moving cars from a street scene for example. There is a plugin to let you stack shots taken in different focal planes to get greater DOF but that is an addon to photoshop noy something it does normally. I don't recall the name of the plugin, I have never used it. here is some freeware plugin software that seems to be aimed at microscopy but might work on macro shots: BK On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 2:39 PM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Lanny, > > Using f32 will reduce sharpness rather than increase it. This is due to > refraction of light around the edges of the iris. > You can demonstrate the effect by punching a hole in a cardboard with a > perforator and making one with a pin or small nail. Looking through both > of > them at a distant object will clarify my point. > Lenses usually perform best at mid-range f-stops... F8 or 11. > Verily low f numbers yield low depth of field but extreme resolution of > detail due to the above effect of refraction. > > Cheers > Axel > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Lanny R > > Verzonden: woensdag 16 april 2008 18:24 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? > > > > Hi Tim, > > > > There are no magic answers with the basics of digital > > photography; it is still bound by the same laws of the > > physics of light. > > > > However, for 1-3 cm fossils (or minerals) you shouldn't have > > a problem with that lens. Use enough light so you can stop > > the lens down to f16 to f32 and there will be more than > > enough depth of field for fossils of that size to be in > > focus. The depth of field focus problem is > > really only a problem when doing things smaller (micro fossils or > > minerals) so that you really need to magnify them, either > > with a microscope or extension tubes. > > > > On the odd occasion that you might need more depth of field, > > shoot two or three photos to get the front and back in focus > > and hand stitch the photos together in Photoshop or similar > > software. It doesn't take very long to do it by hand, I was > > doing that with micro minerals several years before automatic > > stitching software became available. It becomes a lot of work > > if you have several individual focus shots of each of several > > specimens, but for just two or three shots of an occasional > > "special" specimen, it's doesn't take very long. > > > > Regards, > > > > Lanny > > > > > > On Apr 16, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > > > > This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. > > > > > > I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of small > > > fossils, 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field > > continues > > > to be the major challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy > > > the $25,000 camera system made to do the job, take the picture 3 > > > meters away from the specimen and blow up the image, or > > take multiple > > > shots, focusing on different areas, and stitch them together with > > > Helicon, Combine-Z, or the expensive new version of PhotoShop. > > > > > > All are basically horrible options. > > > > > > So, is there anything new and interesting in the world of digital > > > photography that's giving depth of field to macrophotography in a > > > simple, affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a > > Canon Digital > > > Rebel with a 50mm macro lens.) > > > > > > Many thanks for any info! > > > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > > Business: http://www.element51.com > > > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tjokela at execulink.com Wed Apr 16 15:56:39 2008 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Wed Apr 16 15:56:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <007f01c8a015$21ab2200$6500a8c0@Junior> Interesting replies, thanks all. Sorry for the confusion, I meant stacking instead of stitching. My interest is in shooting small things that are highly equant, as deep as they are wide, eg. say you want to see the front and the side of an acorn, all nice and sharp. I'm not up on the latest technology so was hoping somebody had looked into the subject in depth... ha, bad pun. T ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Bryan Kramer" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? > That should just be a lighting problem. Grazing light should add some > shadow > relief to the fossils. I don't understand why you would need to stitch > shots > together unless you are shooting a plate of fossils that is too large to > fit > in the lens field of view. If you have a group of shots that you want to > stitch get with me off list and I can do some for you since I do have that > expensive CS3 software. There is freeware stitching software, you pay in > usability tho. > > BK > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Tim Jokela Jr. > wrote: > >> This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. >> >> I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of small >> fossils, 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field continues to >> be >> the major challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy the $25,000 >> camera system made to do the job, take the picture 3 meters away from the >> specimen and blow up the image, or take multiple shots, focusing on >> different areas, and stitch them together with Helicon, Combine-Z, or the >> expensive new version of PhotoShop. >> >> All are basically horrible options. >> >> So, is there anything new and interesting in the world of digital >> photography that's giving depth of field to macrophotography in a simple, >> affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a Canon Digital Rebel with >> a >> 50mm macro lens.) >> >> Many thanks for any info! >> >> Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >> Business: http://www.element51.com >> Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > -- > "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of > reality with which we create our own private world." > Arnold Newman > > > J Bryan Kramer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Lapidry at aol.com Wed Apr 16 16:03:42 2008 From: Lapidry at aol.com (Lapidry@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 16 16:03:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Lapidary Machines Message-ID: Robert and Betty: You are talking about vibratory laps I assume. The carpet you are describing is nothing more than the fibrous indoor-outdoor carpet. Whatever variety you like, color aside - not the grass stuff though.... There used to be several places, such as Ebersoles, who would gladly sell you a piece already cut to size but you can make an awful lot of circles of your own in just a couple feet width of 12 foot long indoor-outdoor. Dan In a message dated 4/16/2008 3:08:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, therockhunter@hotmail.com writes: Hello I have a question regarding Lapidary equipment. I am wondering that on some of the laps where people are putting carpets down they are using different ones. I have seen grey ones that look like a heavy fleece, the green ones look like a indoor outdoor carpet. The reason for the difference is it for different grit and polishing compound or is it just a personal preference. Thanks for all for you help and information in advance Black Wolf & White Wolf Robert & Betty Sign in and you could WIN! Enter for your chance to win $1000 every day. Visit SignInAndWIN.ca today to learn more! _________________________________________________________________ If you like crossword puzzles, then you'll love Flexicon, a game which combines four overlapping crossword puzzles into one! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/208 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From d.fitch at verizon.net Wed Apr 16 16:57:53 2008 From: d.fitch at verizon.net (Dave Fitch) Date: Wed Apr 16 16:58:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Used cutting oil Message-ID: <76108D83BA6C4198AE5B88AB7191203A@DavidPC> I recently purchased a used Covington slab saw. The previous owner drained the oil that he could but left a thick muck on the bottom. After scraping it out I have a little more than two quarts of oily mud (that may or may not be hazardous because I don't know what he was cutting). The oil is supposed to be Kingsley-North's Lubri-Kool which they say is non-toxic. Any suggestions as to how to dispose of this mess (and any mud I may generate in the future)? Dave in Illinois --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Apr 16 16:59:12 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Apr 16 16:59:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <480692BF.2BA7@Tomaszewski.net> Tim, The classic trick might work. More light and a higher f stop to get more depth of field. Kreigh Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. > > I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of small fossils, > 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field continues to be the major > challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy the $25,000 camera > system made to do the job, take the picture 3 meters away from the specimen > and blow up the image, or take multiple shots, focusing on different areas, > and stitch them together with Helicon, Combine-Z, or the expensive new > version of PhotoShop. > > All are basically horrible options. > > So, is there anything new and interesting in the world of digital > photography that's giving depth of field to macrophotography in a simple, > affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a Canon Digital Rebel with a > 50mm macro lens.) > > Many thanks for any info! > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Business: http://www.element51.com > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kadok at infowest.com Wed Apr 16 17:25:32 2008 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Wed Apr 16 17:19:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips In-Reply-To: <220252.37395.qm@web56313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <220252.37395.qm@web56313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003501c8a021$8c77de50$0200a8c0@kadok> I would like to add my previous request (that never showed up, at least in my mail) -- I will be in NMex, visiting some friends, in a couple of weeks, who want to take me to Rockhounds S.P. I was there once years ago (camping) but was not really into rockhounding then. Would like info on what there is to look foo, and where. Thanx! Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J. R. Hodel Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:32 PM To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips Hi: Next month Martha and I plan a trip to New Mexico and NE AZ. We'll start in Santa Fe for 5 nights - there's a big Arts Festival one weekend -and then move slowly NW to visit many of the ancient cliff dwellings like Chaco Canyon, Canyon de Chelly and Bandolier National Monument. Obviously, I would be interested in any rock collecting opportunities in NW New Mexico or NE Arizona. Any tips or guidance will be appreciated. I hope to have a 4x4 SUV but you know Budget has a different idea about such vehicles than I (we) do. So anyone with ideas or suggestions about collecting in the northern reaches of these states, please pass them along. I know most mining has been in the southern ends of both states, but many collectible things aren't really mining related. Anyone planning to be around Santa Fe around May 22-26, let me know, I'll buy a round of cold ones! Thanks in advance! JR between 0000-00-00 and 9999-99-99 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Pmodreski at aol.com Wed Apr 16 17:40:43 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 16 17:40:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips Message-ID: Margaret, Rockhound State Park is a really neat place--I enjoyed it very much when I was there a couple of years ago. On the road toward the Park, you pass the rock shop run by Robert Colburn aka "Paul the Geode Kid", which is a real "Trip", don't miss stopping there (and don't be afraid to go in, it's not as bad as it looks, though I've known some who thought that--it's quite the piece of desert rats Americana--and they have very neat rocks there). It goes by the impressive name of Basin Range Volcanics Geolapidary museum (you can check out their web page, too). They own the rights to the famous Baker Ranch geode claims, but except on special occasions, I don't know if they allow any public digging there. In the town of Deming, the town museum is really worth seeing--it's quite large, has ALL kinds of historical stuff, and an awesome agate collection (on loan from Paul). Those are my 2 cents about southern NM, Pete Modreski **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 17:56:26 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Apr 16 17:58:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <480692BF.2BA7@Tomaszewski.net> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <480692BF.2BA7@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Here is a macro DOF calculator, use 22.5 as the sensor width for a Canon crop frame camera like yours. At f/45 on a 30 mm object the most DOF you could get is 5mm and you would suffer loss of resolution at that f/stop. You'd need very bright lights too. At a more reasonable f/16 you drop back to 1.7mm DOF. BK On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Tim, > > The classic trick might work. More light and a higher f stop to get more > depth of field. > > Kreigh > > > > Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > > > This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. > > > > I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of small > fossils, > > 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field continues to be the > major > > challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy the $25,000 camera > > system made to do the job, take the picture 3 meters away from the > specimen > > and blow up the image, or take multiple shots, focusing on different > areas, > > and stitch them together with Helicon, Combine-Z, or the expensive new > > version of PhotoShop. > > > > All are basically horrible options. > > > > So, is there anything new and interesting in the world of digital > > photography that's giving depth of field to macrophotography in a > simple, > > affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a Canon Digital Rebel > with a > > 50mm macro lens.) > > > > Many thanks for any info! > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > Business: http://www.element51.com > > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 17:56:45 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Wed Apr 16 17:58:02 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <480692BF.2BA7@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: Whoops URL: On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:56 PM, J Bryan Kramer wrote: > Here is a macro DOF calculator, use 22.5 as the sensor width for a Canon > crop frame camera like yours. At f/45 on a 30 mm object the most DOF you > could get is 5mm and you would suffer loss of resolution at that f/stop. > You'd need very bright lights too. At a more reasonable f/16 you drop back > to 1.7mm DOF. > > BK > > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski < > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> wrote: > > > Tim, > > > > The classic trick might work. More light and a higher f stop to get more > > depth of field. > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > > > > > This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. > > > > > > I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of small > > fossils, > > > 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field continues to be the > > major > > > challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy the $25,000 camera > > > system made to do the job, take the picture 3 meters away from the > > specimen > > > and blow up the image, or take multiple shots, focusing on different > > areas, > > > and stitch them together with Helicon, Combine-Z, or the expensive new > > > version of PhotoShop. > > > > > > All are basically horrible options. > > > > > > So, is there anything new and interesting in the world of digital > > > photography that's giving depth of field to macrophotography in a > > simple, > > > affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a Canon Digital Rebel > > with a > > > 50mm macro lens.) > > > > > > Many thanks for any info! > > > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > > Business: http://www.element51.com > > > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of > reality with which we create our own private world." > Arnold Newman > > > J Bryan Kramer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Wed Apr 16 19:25:19 2008 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Wed Apr 16 19:25:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] I heard a rumor.... Message-ID: I heard a rumor that someone was going to write a new Gem Trails of Oregon. Has anyone heard when it will be published? I just got the new Gem Trails of Washington by G. Romaine, it looks very promising and I can't wait to get out and start collecting. We did have a nice Saturday last week, 80 degrees, but alas, we had a committee meeting for the club I belong to and of course it fell on a not raining, 50 degree day! Dawn Fredricks Portland,OR --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Wed Apr 16 19:29:08 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Wed Apr 16 19:29:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil taxidermy mounts on display Message-ID: <00bc01c8a032$d08e6120$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I have installed a temporary exhibit on the bicentennial of John James Audubon moving into Louisville at the Falls of the Ohio State Park. One of the display cases features three extinct birds on loan from a museum in the region. They include an ivory-billed woodpecker, passenger pigeon and Carolina parakeet. Since these are all extinct (I haven't seen enough evidence to prove the existence of the woodpecker), I suppose these birds might be considered to be fossils. Afterall, they are evidence of pre-existing life forms! Since they are taxidermy mounts, I suppose they would be considered to be "prepped fossils." Alan G. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dawnmfredricks at msn.com Wed Apr 16 19:30:33 2008 From: dawnmfredricks at msn.com (Dawn M. Fredricks) Date: Wed Apr 16 19:30:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Memorial Day weekend Message-ID: For any of you that will be in Oregon Memorial Day weekend, Northwest Mineral Prospectors Club will again be at our claim in Quartzville and invite any guest to attend. You can contact me for a map, the site is 27 miles from Sweet Home Oregon. We will also be taking a trip to the Holleywood Ranch, recently seen on Cash & Treasures. Brad, the owner, only plans on being open about a year, before he fills the 'pit' in to flood it and make it a water skiing lake! We will be taking the club on Sunday of Memorial Day, don't want to miss the Pot Luck the club has on Saturday! Please rsvp, the club will be providing smoked Tri Tip roast that my dh will be cooking! Dawn Fredricks Portland, OR www.nwmpc.com www.holleywoodranch.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Apr 16 19:47:40 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Apr 16 19:47:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Used cutting oil References: <76108D83BA6C4198AE5B88AB7191203A@DavidPC> Message-ID: <4806BA41.907@Tomaszewski.net> Dave Fitch wrote: > > I recently purchased a used Covington slab saw. The previous owner drained the oil that he could but left a thick muck on the bottom. After scraping it out I have a little more than two quarts of oily mud (that may or may not be hazardous because I don't know what he was cutting). The oil is supposed to be Kingsley-North's Lubri-Kool which they say is non-toxic. Any suggestions as to how to dispose of this mess (and any mud I may generate in the future)? > > Dave in Illinois > Dave, The common method of dealing with sludge in your saw is to recycle the oil. Get a bucket and put a stiff screen or collander on top of it to support a paper grocery bag. Put your sludge and oil in the bag. The oil will soak thru the paper and drip into the bucket over a few days and can go back into the saw. The bag with the remaining sludge could go into your flower garden as a mineral suppliment, get thrown into the garbage, or go to your local hazardous waste disposal facility, depending on what you have been cutting. BTW, no matter how non-toxic your cooling oil is, you don't want to inhale it as mist or get it in your eyes. Please take reasonable precautions when cutting. Kreigh From jabac at hal-pc.org Thu Apr 17 03:54:04 2008 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jbacko) Date: Thu Apr 17 03:54:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips In-Reply-To: <220252.37395.qm@web56313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <220252.37395.qm@web56313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48072C4C.1060207@hal-pc.org> J. R. Hodel wrote: > Hi: > > Next month Martha and I plan a trip to New Mexico and NE AZ. We'll start in Santa Fe for 5 nights - there's a big Arts Festival one weekend -and then move slowly NW to visit many of the ancient cliff dwellings like Chaco Canyon, Canyon de Chelly and Bandolier National Monument. > > Obviously, I would be interested in any rock collecting opportunities in NW New Mexico or NE Arizona. Any tips or guidance will be appreciated. I hope to have a 4x4 SUV but you know Budget has a different idea about such vehicles than I (we) do. > > So anyone with ideas or suggestions about collecting in the northern reaches of these states, please pass them along. I know most mining has been in the southern ends of both states, but many collectible things aren't really mining related. Anyone planning to be around Santa Fe around May 22-26, let me know, I'll buy a round of cold ones! > > Thanks in advance! > > JR > JR, just North of Santa Fe are Los Alamos, the pueblo reservations around Espanola, and easily accessible agate at Abiquiu. There is also a nice lake at Abiquiu. The agate is not the best but most is of large size (several pounds) and some of it is cuttable. And there is a lot of it on BLM land. If you are coming from Santa Fe you will probably pass through Albuquerque. Visit the Meteorite museum at the University and the flight/atomic energy museum at Sandia, complete with full-scale models of the two atomic bombs used in Japan. Try to make it over to Socorro and the NM Bureau of Mines Mineral Museum. The exhibits are great and the people there are very helpful and willing to point you in rockhounding directions. Nearby are fluorite, manganese, and agate locations among others, and of course there is the Hansonberg District just down the road. Also in Socorro, near the university, is the local field office of BLM with maps and information. I have enjoyed and profited from every visit to the museum and recommend it to every rockhound. It is a ways from Santa Fe, but on the way to NW NM. You can take the road from Socorro West to Magdalena (smithsonite) and Datil, visiting the VLA telescope array. Further on, rockhounding is very good around Luna for agate. And the road West from there can easily get you to Petrified Forest NP in AZ. Or go South a ways and explore the fire agate areas of AZ. Or go to the copper and hematite/magnetite/serpentine ore areas at Fierro around Silver City. Here the serpentine is easy to get at in dumps beside the road and has lots of gemmy green material. Along the creek on the other side of the road it is easy to secure nice andesite if you are into rocks as well as minerals. Further along this (dead end) road is a hematite prospect which has good material. At Santa Clara is one of the largest open pit copper mines in the world. The primary concern will be the weather and whether or not some areas are accessible in the mountains. You will probably be ok in May. john From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Apr 17 06:20:26 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Apr 17 06:20:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior><480692BF.2BA7@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <001901c8a08d$cdf94f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Hi Bryan, Thanks for the input, it's very interesting and, frankly, I learned a thing or two just gancing at it. ;-))) However, I did a quick test and got this result Aperture 16 Sensor Width 22.2 mm (Canon 400D) Subject Width 4 mm Circle Of Confusion 0.0178 Optical Magnification 5.55 X Depth Of Field 0.12085045045045044 mm Well, I know for a fact that this is wrong... I do macro a lot and 3 and 4 mm imagewidth is target size for me. When I shoot objects at the above settings I get an DOF of just under 1 mm as this photo proves: http://flickr.com/photos/22753159@N04/2223234472/in/set-72157603704255629/ This is at least 5 times more (estimated) than predicted by the formula. True, I use bellows and reversed lenses... That may affect matters perhaps? Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens J Bryan Kramer > Verzonden: donderdag 17 april 2008 1:57 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? > > Whoops URL: > > > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:56 PM, J Bryan Kramer > wrote: > > > Here is a macro DOF calculator, use 22.5 as the sensor width for a > > Canon crop frame camera like yours. At f/45 on a 30 mm > object the most > > DOF you could get is 5mm and you would suffer loss of > resolution at that f/stop. > > You'd need very bright lights too. At a more reasonable > f/16 you drop > > back to 1.7mm DOF. > > > > BK > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski < > > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> wrote: > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > The classic trick might work. More light and a higher f > stop to get > > > more depth of field. > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > > > > > > > This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. > > > > > > > > I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of > > > > small > > > fossils, > > > > 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field > continues to be > > > > the > > > major > > > > challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy the $25,000 > > > > camera system made to do the job, take the picture 3 > meters away > > > > from the > > > specimen > > > > and blow up the image, or take multiple shots, focusing on > > > > different > > > areas, > > > > and stitch them together with Helicon, Combine-Z, or > the expensive > > > > new version of PhotoShop. > > > > > > > > All are basically horrible options. > > > > > > > > So, is there anything new and interesting in the world > of digital > > > > photography that's giving depth of field to > macrophotography in a > > > simple, > > > > affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a Canon Digital > > > > Rebel > > > with a > > > > 50mm macro lens.) > > > > > > > > Many thanks for any info! > > > > > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > > > Business: http://www.element51.com > > > > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an > illusion of > > reality with which we create our own private world." > > Arnold Newman > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer > > North Florida, USA > > photos at: > > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > > > > -- > "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an > illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." > Arnold Newman > > > J Bryan Kramer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 06:25:56 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Apr 17 06:26:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <001901c8a08d$cdf94f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <480692BF.2BA7@Tomaszewski.net> <001901c8a08d$cdf94f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: I don't know Axel, when the optical experts start calculating they usually leave me behind. Especially at that scale. BK On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > Hi Bryan, > > Thanks for the input, it's very interesting and, frankly, I learned a > thing > or two just gancing at it. ;-))) > > However, I did a quick test and got this result > Aperture 16 > Sensor Width 22.2 mm (Canon 400D) > Subject Width 4 mm > Circle Of Confusion 0.0178 > Optical Magnification 5.55 X > Depth Of Field 0.12085045045045044 mm > > Well, I know for a fact that this is wrong... I do macro a lot and 3 and 4 > mm imagewidth is target size for me. > When I shoot objects at the above settings I get an DOF of just under 1 mm > as this photo proves: > http://flickr.com/photos/22753159@N04/2223234472/in/set-72157603704255629/ > This is at least 5 times more (estimated) than predicted by the formula. > True, I use bellows and reversed lenses... That may affect matters > perhaps? > > Axel > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens J Bryan Kramer > > Verzonden: donderdag 17 april 2008 1:57 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? > > > > Whoops URL: > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:56 PM, J Bryan Kramer > > wrote: > > > > > Here is a macro DOF calculator, use 22.5 as the sensor width for a > > > Canon crop frame camera like yours. At f/45 on a 30 mm > > object the most > > > DOF you could get is 5mm and you would suffer loss of > > resolution at that f/stop. > > > You'd need very bright lights too. At a more reasonable > > f/16 you drop > > > back to 1.7mm DOF. > > > > > > BK > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski < > > > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> wrote: > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > The classic trick might work. More light and a higher f > > stop to get > > > > more depth of field. > > > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This one goes out to the digital photography gurus out there. > > > > > > > > > > I was talking to a buddy last night about macrophotography of > > > > > small > > > > fossils, > > > > > 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field > > continues to be > > > > > the > > > > major > > > > > challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy the $25,000 > > > > > camera system made to do the job, take the picture 3 > > meters away > > > > > from the > > > > specimen > > > > > and blow up the image, or take multiple shots, focusing on > > > > > different > > > > areas, > > > > > and stitch them together with Helicon, Combine-Z, or > > the expensive > > > > > new version of PhotoShop. > > > > > > > > > > All are basically horrible options. > > > > > > > > > > So, is there anything new and interesting in the world > > of digital > > > > > photography that's giving depth of field to > > macrophotography in a > > > > simple, > > > > > affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a Canon Digital > > > > > Rebel > > > > with a > > > > > 50mm macro lens.) > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for any info! > > > > > > > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > > > > Business: http://www.element51.com > > > > > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an > > illusion of > > > reality with which we create our own private world." > > > Arnold Newman > > > > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer > > > North Florida, USA > > > photos at: > > > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an > > illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." > > Arnold Newman > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer > > North Florida, USA > > photos at: > > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > multipart/alternative > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > text/html > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From brenick at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 06:53:43 2008 From: brenick at gmail.com (Brenda Van Dyke) Date: Thu Apr 17 07:03:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Used cutting oil In-Reply-To: <4806BA41.907@Tomaszewski.net> References: <76108D83BA6C4198AE5B88AB7191203A@DavidPC> <4806BA41.907@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <97175ae90804170653i6bfa9cc5ge80689603703a262@mail.gmail.com> the left-over sludge can really go in the garden?? Brenda On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > Dave Fitch wrote: > > > > I recently purchased a used Covington slab saw. The previous owner > drained the oil that he could but left a thick muck on the bottom. After > scraping it out I have a little more than two quarts of oily mud (that may > or may not be hazardous because I don't know what he was cutting). The oil > is supposed to be Kingsley-North's Lubri-Kool which they say is non-toxic. > Any suggestions as to how to dispose of this mess (and any mud I may > generate in the future)? > > > > Dave in Illinois > > > > > Dave, > > The common method of dealing with sludge in your saw is to recycle the > oil. > > Get a bucket and put a stiff screen or collander on top of it to support > a paper grocery bag. Put your sludge and oil in the bag. The oil will > soak thru the paper and drip into the bucket over a few days and can go > back into the saw. > > The bag with the remaining sludge could go into your flower garden as a > mineral suppliment, get thrown into the garbage, or go to your local > hazardous waste disposal facility, depending on what you have been > cutting. > > BTW, no matter how non-toxic your cooling oil is, you don't want to > inhale it as mist or get it in your eyes. Please take reasonable > precautions when cutting. > > Kreigh > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Apr 17 07:05:55 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Apr 17 07:05:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior><480692BF.2BA7@Tomaszewski.net><001901c8a08d$cdf94f00$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <002001c8a094$2750cd70$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Knowing that we do it knee-deep in blood and guts without the math and STILL get good pics must be deeply frustrating for the experts ;-))) Real micro-photography is where the tough get going, my friend (LOL). I haven't a clue what I'm doing and why but I get it done and that's what counts. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens J Bryan Kramer > Verzonden: donderdag 17 april 2008 14:26 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? > > I don't know Axel, when the optical experts start calculating > they usually leave me behind. Especially at that scale. > > BK > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 9:20 AM, Axel Emmermann > > wrote: > > > Hi Bryan, > > > > Thanks for the input, it's very interesting and, frankly, I > learned a > > thing or two just gancing at it. ;-))) > > > > However, I did a quick test and got this result > > Aperture 16 > > Sensor Width 22.2 mm (Canon 400D) > > Subject Width 4 mm > > Circle Of Confusion 0.0178 > > Optical Magnification 5.55 X > > Depth Of Field 0.12085045045045044 mm > > > > Well, I know for a fact that this is wrong... I do macro a > lot and 3 > > and 4 mm imagewidth is target size for me. > > When I shoot objects at the above settings I get an DOF of > just under > > 1 mm as this photo proves: > > > http://flickr.com/photos/22753159@N04/2223234472/in/set-72157603704255 > > 629/ This is at least 5 times more (estimated) than > predicted by the > > formula. > > True, I use bellows and reversed lenses... That may affect matters > > perhaps? > > > > Axel > > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens J > Bryan Kramer > > > Verzonden: donderdag 17 april 2008 1:57 > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > collectors > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? > > > > > > Whoops URL: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:56 PM, J Bryan Kramer > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Here is a macro DOF calculator, use 22.5 as the sensor > width for a > > > > Canon crop frame camera like yours. At f/45 on a 30 mm > > > object the most > > > > DOF you could get is 5mm and you would suffer loss of > > > resolution at that f/stop. > > > > You'd need very bright lights too. At a more reasonable > > > f/16 you drop > > > > back to 1.7mm DOF. > > > > > > > > BK > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski < > > > > Kreigh@tomaszewski.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Tim, > > > > > > > > > > The classic trick might work. More light and a higher f > > > stop to get > > > > > more depth of field. > > > > > > > > > > Kreigh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > This one goes out to the digital photography gurus > out there. > > > > > > > > > > > > I was talking to a buddy last night about > macrophotography of > > > > > > small > > > > > fossils, > > > > > > 1-3cm stuff, and how capturing any depth of field > > > continues to be > > > > > > the > > > > > major > > > > > > challenge. He suggested three ways of doing it: buy the > > > > > > $25,000 camera system made to do the job, take the picture 3 > > > meters away > > > > > > from the > > > > > specimen > > > > > > and blow up the image, or take multiple shots, focusing on > > > > > > different > > > > > areas, > > > > > > and stitch them together with Helicon, Combine-Z, or > > > the expensive > > > > > > new version of PhotoShop. > > > > > > > > > > > > All are basically horrible options. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, is there anything new and interesting in the world > > > of digital > > > > > > photography that's giving depth of field to > > > macrophotography in a > > > > > simple, > > > > > > affordable manner? (My weapon of choice atm is a > Canon Digital > > > > > > Rebel > > > > > with a > > > > > > 50mm macro lens.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for any info! > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > > > > > > Business: http://www.element51.com > > > > > > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: > > > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an > > > illusion of > > > > reality with which we create our own private world." > > > > Arnold Newman > > > > > > > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer > > > > North Florida, USA > > > > photos at: > > > > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is > an illusion > > > of reality with which we create our own private world." > > > Arnold Newman > > > > > > > > > J Bryan Kramer > > > North Florida, USA > > > photos at: > > > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > > multipart/alternative > > > text/plain (text body -- kept) > > > text/html > > > --- > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an > illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." > Arnold Newman > > > J Bryan Kramer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Thu Apr 17 11:22:31 2008 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Thu Apr 17 11:29:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil taxidermy mounts on display In-Reply-To: <00bc01c8a032$d08e6120$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <00bc01c8a032$d08e6120$6501a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: "Prepped fossils ?" Let's hope your display didn't involve any reattached specimens to their taxidermy mounts, crazy glue, or reassembled crystals found in vug nestled together. I agree with your inclusion of the Ivory-bill; one sighting, a book tour, and a whole lotta Cornell Ornithology Lab hoopla does not quite get the bird off the extinction list and on the prime endangered species list just yet in my book. Do we who care for precise wording (in our emails and in our lives) and documenting our actions on natural history specimens next take on J. J. Audubon who "prepped" his birds for drawing with a shotgun, baling wire and pins? Alan, will you note on the back of the birds' labels before they are returned to the museum coffers that they once co-mingled on display as examples of man-induced extinction? Donald L. Tuttle > From: deepskyspy@insightbb.com > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:29:08 -0400 > CC: paleolist@notkin.net > Subject: [Rockhounds] Fossil taxidermy mounts on display > > I have installed a temporary exhibit on the bicentennial of John James Audubon moving into Louisville at the Falls of the Ohio State Park. One of the display cases features three extinct birds on loan from a museum in the region. They include an ivory-billed woodpecker, passenger pigeon and Carolina parakeet. Since these are all extinct (I haven't seen enough evidence to prove the existence of the woodpecker), I suppose these birds might be considered to be fossils. After all, they are evidence of pre-existing life forms! Since they are taxidermy mounts, I suppose they would be considered to be "prepped fossils." > > Alan G. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653A --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From corson at infodyn.com Thu Apr 17 11:53:11 2008 From: corson at infodyn.com (Tom Corson) Date: Thu Apr 17 11:57:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: Local Tucson Mineral Sale this weekend Message-ID: <01ea01c8a0bc$48fac930$610fa8c0@Grimble> For any of you Tucson locals, several collector/dealers and myself are holding a one day mineral specimen sale this Saturday, April 19th. It will run from 9 AM until 5 PM and will be held at 2242 East Third Street, Tucson, AZ. Hope to see some of you there! There are still some good values to be had on my 33% off sale on my website, as well. The specimens include some great pieces from the Charlie Key Collection, plus others. Here is a direct link to the items on sale: http://infodyn.dyndns.org:8880/cgi-bin/query_sku?SaleOnly To browse all of my current specimens online, use: http://infodyn.dyndns.org:8880/store/galleries.html Best regards, Tom Corson OBG Gems & Minerals corson@infodyn.com http://www.obgrocks.com/ From jr50wv at yahoo.com Thu Apr 17 12:37:45 2008 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Thu Apr 17 12:39:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Robot surveys and scans underground silver mine! Message-ID: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all: This is pretty interesting!  A robot has "spent 3 and half days mapping 2.2km of "underground drives, stopes and access ramps", doing more than 80 scans per day and producing nearly 100 million data points. In less the a month the mining company was able to replace old mine drawings with accurate 3D data that "corresponded exactly with existing topographic aerial photographs and contour maps of the mine site"." Pretty cool!  I want one! I almost forgot, here's some links: http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/17/laser-scanning-robot-creates-3d-map-of-silver-mine/ and http://www.directionsmag.com/press.releases/?duty=Show&id=22019&trv=1 JR Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Thu Apr 17 13:20:08 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Thu Apr 17 13:20:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <000901c89ff7$74fdd5b0$5ef98110$@dillen@skynet.be> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior><003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <000901c89ff7$74fdd5b0$5ef98110$@dillen@skynet.be> Message-ID: <004901c8a0c8$6e4ccf10$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Hi Rik, > (which does not mean that we aren't > good friends :>). Damn right we are ;-))) > 1. When we look at a specimen and we need a depth of view, > we move, turn etc. the specimen, and our brain/memory > makes a stack of the images, creating in that way a more or > less 3-D view of the specimen. Stacking software does > (about) the same thing on a photo. Already I protest ;-)) When you turn YOUR specimen you get the above effect. When you look at A specimen, it is usually on a shelf behind glass. You look at it and that is the end of stacking. You can kinda scan the object by moving the focus of your eyes back and forth but at any given time you see only part of it sharp unless it's a big object at some distance. That is also how the photo should look to resemble reality. Reproducing reality is what makes photography art. Digital imaging is what devaluates photography to the level of a xerox machine. Anyone can make a 1000 images a day and hope there's 1 or 2 acceptable among them. With stacking software you don't make a photo, you flatten reality to something that is impossible and surreal. You crunch 3 dimentions into two. > 2. When we take an analogous photo (meaning : with a > classical camera, on film) we narrow artificially the > aperture, and use a much higher exposure time to obtain a > higher depth of focus (taking into account Axel's arguments > in his second message). Stacking software pursues the same > goal, using different means. A good photographer will strive to use an aperture that is as wide as possible to move the plane of attention towards the object and blurr out the unimportant detail. The ambitious amateur wants to rival that and is fooled into believing that expanding the depth of field is by all means preferable. > 3. Imagine that you would be able to have a heterogeneous > lens, meaning that the focal distance would change > gradually from the centre towards the edge of the lens, than > you would be able to make a photo where a crystal in the > centre would be sharp in focus, and the background material > towards the edges of the lens as well, because the focal > distance would be adapted. Of course, such a lens would have > to be designed just to take one photo :>) Such a photo would > not be considered as "not permissible"... however the only > difference would be that other means have been used for > (something like) the same result as if you follow the way of > stacking software. There are no such lenses but there are bellows that can be tilted and turned at both sides obtaining similar result. They are used for mainly technical purposes wher DOF is important and some art photography. Why are they used instead of stacking software? RIGHT, the photographer STILL reserves the right for himself to choose were his photo is in or out focus. There are plenty of examples on the internet. http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/24004-my-self- made-tilt-shift-bellows.html Look at the flower on this page: http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/content/2007/july/macro.shtml Not stacked, just tilted lens. The flower is sharp as it should and the rest is beautifully out of focus. I rest my case. > 4. The depth of focus of our eyes is far better than that > of a camera. No, it's not nearly as good as a good technical camera can achieve. > This means that a photo (not stacked) does > show in fact even less than your eyes would see directly. In > fact the depth of focus of human eyes is perhaps not "far > better", but the brains combine the images of both eyes... in > fact what we see is a "stack" of two images... a photo shows > only one image instead of a combination of two. I don't agree (but you knew that) ;-))) You don't SEE more with both eyes! Your brain actually fills in the gaps just like the "unshap mask" filter does in photoshop. You think you see more but you may in fact see things that only appear to be there. That is how we actually recognize faces. We look at mouth, eyes and nose and the brain fills in the rest in a few thousands of a second. But sometimes the brain fails and we mistake people for someone else. > 5. Any photographer would have no objection to a > photographic panoramic view. Again, this is an example of > something that we would not be able to see with our eyes. We see about 180 degrees or so. Try that with a fish-eye lens and look at the ridiculous amount of distortion. You seriously underestimate our eyes, Rik. > 6. The purpose of a photo has, IMHO, always some > didactical purpose, and therefore, the more detailed information > one can show clearly in one photo, the better. Even if that > necessitates the use of stacking software. On the condition, > however, that nothing is shown that wasn't there in reality. > Then it would become fake. Photography means "painting with light", creating a facsimile of reality. Reality is dicontinous. It is like a string of pearls where each pearl is a moment in time. You scan the depth of the object you perceive in limited time frames (about 1/30 of a second per frame). A photo HAS to be a pearl. What you see at ONE monent in time. Only then can it be a true representation of the world that we see. You can't focus on every distance at once so any close-up photo that is in focus all over has to be a fake > 7. Perhaps the most important of my arguments is that a > stacked composition of photos shows nothing that was not > really present, therefore for me nothing is wrong with such > type of imaging. You confuse a photo with a movie. There you can zoom in without violating reality. > And I admit that there is, as always, some sort of a gray > zone : what about the correction of a wrongly tuned color > temperature ? Why would you do that when you used the right camera setting and the right lighting? >What about enhancing sharpness, That you can't do. There are PS-filters that EMULATE the effect by merging pixels and adjusting this and that... Ultimately you CREATE (and I have demonstrated that on several occasions) artefacts that are not there. Lines and grooves that are simply create by your software suddenly appear and your photo seems so much richer in detail...that wasn't there in reality. Enough licht to subdue noise and take the time to focus.... Those are the tricks that make a photo sharp. >contrast etc ? RE-Why would you do that when you used the right camera setting and the right lighting? > What about the use of a "soft focus" lens, that reduces > sharpness artificially ? Those things are done digitally, but > were done as well in the dark room in the last century. > Also in analogous photography many techniques produce images > that are not exactly as the naked eye would see. Art, Rik... Art... Art has no foothold in reality unless and only so far sa the artist deems in appropriate. > On the other hand I want to emphasize on the fact that I > don't even have any stacking software, and so far I did never > use it. Since the time I have a decent digital camera I did > not have the time to do much about photography of minerals. > So I am not defending "my technique". > I hope to get to mineral photography as soon as I will retire > (that is 1 July 2010). We rejoice in the prospect ;-))) I'm sure you'll have our full attention. > And of course, this is just my opinion and interpretation of > things, not the absolute truth. I think that this discussion > is fruitful as such, and everyone has to distill his own > conclusions from it. NOW we agree (roflmao). It was fun refuting you... This seems to be an never-ending story... Cheers my friend Axel From betdav97 at aol.com Thu Apr 17 13:19:44 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 17 13:20:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Robot surveys and scans underground silver mine! In-Reply-To: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CA6EDF828B55CB-B98-17E9@webmail-db08.sysops.aol.com> JR, That technology was developed just north of me, in an old underground limestone quarry. Dave in Morgantown -----Original Message----- From: J. R. Hodel To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 3:37 pm Subject: [Rockhounds] Robot surveys and scans underground silver mine! Hi all: This is pretty interesting! A robot has "spent 3 and half days mapping 2.2km of "underground drives, stopes and access ramps", doing more than 80 scans per day and producing nearly 100 million data points. In less the a month the mining company was able to replace old mine drawings with accurate 3D data that "corresponded exactly with existing topographic aerial photographs and contour maps of the mine site"." Pretty cool! I want one! I almost forgot, here's some links: http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/17/laser-scanning-robot-creates-3d-map-of-silver-mine/ and http://www.directionsmag.com/press.releases/?duty=Show&id=22019&trv=1 JR Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 13:45:07 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Apr 17 13:45:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <004901c8a0c8$6e4ccf10$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <004901c8a0c8$6e4ccf10$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: Actually there are lenses like that, their exisitence would probably not be known outside of the photography community: < http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=156&modelid=7322 > Tilt and Shift lenses. Much used by architectural photographers to fix the converging line problem. They aren't much use for macro photography tho with a minimum focus distance of 40cm. Canon makes 3 T&S lenses. BK > There are no such lenses but there are bellows that can be tilted and > turned > at both sides obtaining similar result. They are used for mainly technical > purposes wher DOF is important and some art photography. > Why are they used instead of stacking software? RIGHT, the photographer > STILL reserves the right for himself to choose were his photo is in or out > focus. There are plenty of examples on the internet. > > http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/24004-my-self- > made-tilt-shift-bellows.html > Look at the flower on this page: > http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/content/2007/july/macro.shtml > Not stacked, just tilted lens. The flower is sharp as it should and the > rest > is beautifully out of focus. > I rest my case. > > > 4. The depth of focus of our eyes is far better than that > > of a camera. > > No, it's not nearly as good as a good technical camera can achieve. > > > > This means that a photo (not stacked) does > > show in fact even less than your eyes would see directly. In > > fact the depth of focus of human eyes is perhaps not "far > > better", but the brains combine the images of both eyes... in > > fact what we see is a "stack" of two images... a photo shows > > only one image instead of a combination of two. > > I don't agree (but you knew that) ;-))) > You don't SEE more with both eyes! > Your brain actually fills in the gaps just like the "unshap mask" filter > does in photoshop. You think you see more but you may in fact see things > that only appear to be there. That is how we actually recognize faces. We > look at mouth, eyes and nose and the brain fills in the rest in a few > thousands of a second. But sometimes the brain fails and we mistake people > for someone else. > > > 5. Any photographer would have no objection to a > > photographic panoramic view. Again, this is an example of > > something that we would not be able to see with our eyes. > > We see about 180 degrees or so. Try that with a fish-eye lens and look at > the ridiculous amount of distortion. You seriously underestimate our eyes, > Rik. > > > 6. The purpose of a photo has, IMHO, always some > > didactical purpose, and therefore, the more detailed information > > one can show clearly in one photo, the better. Even if that > > necessitates the use of stacking software. On the condition, > > however, that nothing is shown that wasn't there in reality. > > Then it would become fake. > > Photography means "painting with light", creating a facsimile of reality. > Reality is dicontinous. It is like a string of pearls where each pearl is > a > moment in time. You scan the depth of the object you perceive in limited > time frames (about 1/30 of a second per frame). > A photo HAS to be a pearl. What you see at ONE monent in time. Only then > can > it be a true representation of the world that we see. You can't focus on > every distance at once so any close-up photo that is in focus all over has > to be a fake > > > 7. Perhaps the most important of my arguments is that a > > stacked composition of photos shows nothing that was not > > really present, therefore for me nothing is wrong with such > > type of imaging. > > You confuse a photo with a movie. There you can zoom in without violating > reality. > > > And I admit that there is, as always, some sort of a gray > > zone : what about the correction of a wrongly tuned color > > temperature ? > > Why would you do that when you used the right camera setting and the right > lighting? > > >What about enhancing sharpness, > > That you can't do. There are PS-filters that EMULATE the effect by merging > pixels and adjusting this and that... Ultimately you CREATE (and I have > demonstrated that on several occasions) artefacts that are not there. > Lines > and grooves that are simply create by your software suddenly appear and > your > photo seems so much richer in detail...that wasn't there in reality. > Enough > licht to subdue noise and take the time to focus.... Those are the tricks > that make a photo sharp. > > > >contrast etc ? > > RE-Why would you do that when you used the right camera setting and the > right lighting? > > > What about the use of a "soft focus" lens, that reduces > > sharpness artificially ? Those things are done digitally, but > > were done as well in the dark room in the last century. > > Also in analogous photography many techniques produce images > > that are not exactly as the naked eye would see. > > Art, Rik... Art... Art has no foothold in reality unless and only so far > sa > the artist deems in appropriate. > > > On the other hand I want to emphasize on the fact that I > > don't even have any stacking software, and so far I did never > > use it. Since the time I have a decent digital camera I did > > not have the time to do much about photography of minerals. > > So I am not defending "my technique". > > I hope to get to mineral photography as soon as I will retire > > (that is 1 July 2010). > > We rejoice in the prospect ;-))) > I'm sure you'll have our full attention. > > > And of course, this is just my opinion and interpretation of > > things, not the absolute truth. I think that this discussion > > is fruitful as such, and everyone has to distill his own > > conclusions from it. > > NOW we agree (roflmao). > It was fun refuting you... This seems to be an never-ending story... > > Cheers my friend > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Thu Apr 17 13:59:02 2008 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Thu Apr 17 13:59:08 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <004901c8a0c8$6e4ccf10$6401a8c0@AxelHP> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior><003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <000901c89ff7$74fdd5b0$5ef98110$@dillen@skynet.be> <004901c8a0c8$6e4ccf10$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <000001c8a0cd$ddebff30$99c3fd90$@dillen@skynet.be> -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Axel Emmermann Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 10:20 PM To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? ... ... ... This seems to be an never-ending story... **************************************************** Indeed. So I will be very short this time. Anyway, for me (most of) my arguments stay valid, although some of them can be interpreted the other way. The most important principle for me is : a photo should show only things that were really there. Otherwise it's fake. I heard several times the word "art". Well, I'm not an artist when photographing. I just want good images of my minerals, with as little effort as possible. Grts, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, ?B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen ? MINERANT 2008? -? 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ From kadok at infowest.com Thu Apr 17 14:59:48 2008 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Thu Apr 17 14:53:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001201c8a0d6$5ab9a320$0200a8c0@kadok> Thanks, Pete! Margaret To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips Margaret, Rockhound State Park is a really neat place--I enjoyed it very much when I was there a couple of years ago. On the road toward the Park, you pass the rock shop run by Robert Colburn aka "Paul the Geode Kid", which is a real "Trip", don't miss stopping there (and don't be afraid to go in, it's not as bad as it looks, though I've known some who thought that--it's quite the piece of desert rats Americana--and they have very neat rocks there). It goes by the impressive name of Basin Range Volcanics Geolapidary museum (you can check out their web page, too). They own the rights to the famous Baker Ranch geode claims, but except on special occasions, I don't know if they allow any public digging there. In the town of Deming, the town museum is really worth seeing--it's quite large, has ALL kinds of historical stuff, and an awesome agate collection (on loan from Paul). Those are my 2 cents about southern NM, Pete Modreski **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Thu Apr 17 15:00:40 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Thu Apr 17 15:00:08 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for Kids? Help! Message-ID: <06c801c8a0d6$7a1a5250$2a9ad2cc@feldsparflash> To the list: One of our members is looking for a summer camp for her 13 year old that emphasizes rockhounding, lapidary and geology. She lives in the Poughkeepsie, NY area. Carolyn Reynard Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From codeburner at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 15:34:08 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Thu Apr 17 15:34:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: <3416260694644375202@unknownmsgid> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <004901c8a0c8$6e4ccf10$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <3416260694644375202@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: For scientific photography you are of course right Rik. Unfortunately there is no such thing as an exact reproduction in photography. You can approach that ideal but only by shooting a color target in each shot and then using Photoshop to try to match the known colors in the target. A rarely done procedure. You would also have to use a heavily color managed workflow and the color would only be correct on a calibrated monitor. If you printed the photo you would have to soft proof the file and color manage the printer and paper. Variations in the lighting used will radically affect the reproduced colors otherwise. BK Indeed. So I will be very short this time. > Anyway, for me (most of) my arguments stay valid, although some of them > can be interpreted the other way. > The most important principle for me is : a photo should show only things > that were really there. Otherwise it's fake. > I heard several times the word "art". Well, I'm not an artist when > photographing. > I just want good images of my minerals, with as little effort as possible. > > Grts, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From cjkuo at verizon.net Thu Apr 17 17:21:46 2008 From: cjkuo at verizon.net (Jimmy Kuo) Date: Thu Apr 17 17:21:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips References: <220252.37395.qm@web56313.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <48072C4C.1060207@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <00f801c8a0ea$306b9f10$6800a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> NE Arizona is petrified wood country. Just stop at any pebbly road or road cut. Or a road that has a trench running along side. "No collecting" is only on National Park, State Park, and of course, private property. But millions of years ago, the trees didn't bother making that distinction. The petrified wood chips are everywhere. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "jbacko" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:54 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips > J. R. Hodel wrote: >> Hi: >> >> Next month Martha and I plan a trip to New Mexico and NE AZ. We'll start >> in Santa Fe for 5 nights - there's a big Arts Festival one weekend -and >> then move slowly NW to visit many of the ancient cliff dwellings like >> Chaco Canyon, Canyon de Chelly and Bandolier National Monument. >> >> Obviously, I would be interested in any rock collecting opportunities in >> NW New Mexico or NE Arizona. Any tips or guidance will be appreciated. >> I hope to have a 4x4 SUV but you know Budget has a different idea about >> such vehicles than I (we) do. >> >> So anyone with ideas or suggestions about collecting in the northern >> reaches of these states, please pass them along. I know most mining has >> been in the southern ends of both states, but many collectible things >> aren't really mining related. Anyone planning to be around Santa Fe >> around May 22-26, let me know, I'll buy a round of cold ones! >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> JR >> > > JR, just North of Santa Fe are Los Alamos, the pueblo reservations > around Espanola, and easily accessible agate at Abiquiu. There is also a > nice lake at Abiquiu. The agate is not the best but most is of large > size (several pounds) and some of it is cuttable. And there is a lot of > it on BLM land. > > If you are coming from Santa Fe you will probably pass through > Albuquerque. Visit the Meteorite museum at the University and the > flight/atomic energy museum at Sandia, complete with full-scale models > of the two atomic bombs used in Japan. > > Try to make it over to Socorro and the NM Bureau of Mines Mineral > Museum. The exhibits are great and the people there are very helpful and > willing to point you in rockhounding directions. Nearby are fluorite, > manganese, and agate locations among others, and of course there is the > Hansonberg District just down the road. Also in Socorro, near the > university, is the local field office of BLM with maps and information. > I have enjoyed and profited from every visit to the museum and recommend > it to every rockhound. It is a ways from Santa Fe, but on the way to NW > NM. > > You can take the road from Socorro West to Magdalena (smithsonite) and > Datil, visiting the VLA telescope array. Further on, rockhounding is > very good around Luna for agate. And the road West from there can easily > get you to Petrified Forest NP in AZ. Or go South a ways and explore > the fire agate areas of AZ. > > Or go to the copper and hematite/magnetite/serpentine ore areas at > Fierro around Silver City. Here the serpentine is easy to get at in > dumps beside the road and has lots of gemmy green material. Along the > creek on the other side of the road it is easy to secure nice andesite > if you are into rocks as well as minerals. Further along this (dead end) > road is a hematite prospect which has good material. At Santa Clara is > one of the largest open pit copper mines in the world. > > The primary concern will be the weather and whether or not some areas > are accessible in the mountains. You will probably be ok in May. > > > > john > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Apr 17 18:02:06 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Apr 17 17:59:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Used cutting oil References: <76108D83BA6C4198AE5B88AB7191203A@DavidPC> <4806BA41.907@Tomaszewski.net> <97175ae90804170653i6bfa9cc5ge80689603703a262@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4807F24B.2C42@Tomaszewski.net> _Flower_ garden (not vegetable garden). If all you have been cutting is agate, the sludge is essentially sand. If you do a good job of draining the oil out, what little is left doesn't seem to cause a problem with plants. Kreigh Brenda Van Dyke wrote: > > the left-over sludge can really go in the garden?? > > Brenda > > On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 10:47 PM, Kreigh Tomaszewski > wrote: > > > Dave Fitch wrote: > > > > > > I recently purchased a used Covington slab saw. The previous owner > > drained the oil that he could but left a thick muck on the bottom. After > > scraping it out I have a little more than two quarts of oily mud (that may > > or may not be hazardous because I don't know what he was cutting). The oil > > is supposed to be Kingsley-North's Lubri-Kool which they say is non-toxic. > > Any suggestions as to how to dispose of this mess (and any mud I may > > generate in the future)? > > > > > > Dave in Illinois > > > > > > > > > Dave, > > > > The common method of dealing with sludge in your saw is to recycle the > > oil. > > > > Get a bucket and put a stiff screen or collander on top of it to support > > a paper grocery bag. Put your sludge and oil in the bag. The oil will > > soak thru the paper and drip into the bucket over a few days and can go > > back into the saw. > > > > The bag with the remaining sludge could go into your flower garden as a > > mineral suppliment, get thrown into the garbage, or go to your local > > hazardous waste disposal facility, depending on what you have been > > cutting. > > > > BTW, no matter how non-toxic your cooling oil is, you don't want to > > inhale it as mist or get it in your eyes. Please take reasonable > > precautions when cutting. > > > > Kreigh > > From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Thu Apr 17 18:39:31 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Thu Apr 17 18:39:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for Kids? Help! References: <06c801c8a0d6$7a1a5250$2a9ad2cc@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <004701c8a0f5$0c847c60$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> See if the "Museum of the Earth" in Ithaca offers programs. I do a "Young Paleontologist Camp" but the Falls of the Ohio is a looong way from Poughkeepsie. It is only three days long - I don't have the time to do anything longer. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carolyn Reynard" To: "Rockhounds" Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for Kids? Help! To the list: One of our members is looking for a summer camp for her 13 year old that emphasizes rockhounding, lapidary and geology. She lives in the Poughkeepsie, NY area. Carolyn Reynard Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Apr 17 19:33:09 2008 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Apr 17 19:35:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for Kids? Help! In-Reply-To: <06c801c8a0d6$7a1a5250$2a9ad2cc@feldsparflash> References: <06c801c8a0d6$7a1a5250$2a9ad2cc@feldsparflash> Message-ID: Consider William Holland Lapidary School in North Carolina. It is affiliated with the Southeast Federation of Mineral Societies. I'm not sure of their minimum age requirement. See www.sfms.org Glenn > From: sunstone3@hvc.rr.com> To: Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:00:40 -0400> CC: > Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for Kids? Help!> > To the list: One of our members is looking for a summer camp for her 13 year old that emphasizes rockhounding, lapidary and geology.> > She lives in the Poughkeepsie, NY area.> > Carolyn Reynard> Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653A --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pawpawtiger at hotmail.com Thu Apr 17 19:54:41 2008 From: pawpawtiger at hotmail.com (Glenn Wimpee) Date: Thu Apr 17 19:54:44 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for Kids? Help! In-Reply-To: References: <06c801c8a0d6$7a1a5250$2a9ad2cc@feldsparflash> Message-ID: OOPS...old timers disease... The link is: www.amfed.org/sfms Glenn > From: pawpawtiger@hotmail.com> To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for Kids? Help!> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:33:09 -0500> > Consider William Holland Lapidary School in North Carolina. It is affiliated with the Southeast Federation of Mineral Societies.> > I'm not sure of their minimum age requirement.> > See www.sfms.org> Glenn > > > From: sunstone3@hvc.rr.com> To: Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:00:40 -0400> CC: > Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for Kids? Help!> > To the list: One of our members is looking for a summer camp for her 13 year old that emphasizes rockhounding, lapidary and geology.> > She lives in the Poughkeepsie, NY area.> > Carolyn Reynard> Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html> _________________________________________________________________> Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic.> http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653A> > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- kept)> text/html> ---> -- > _______________________________________________> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List> Subscription Services:> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653A --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lavenderfish at cox.net Thu Apr 17 20:14:36 2008 From: lavenderfish at cox.net (Carol Carter-Wientjes) Date: Thu Apr 17 20:14:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for Kids? Help! References: <06c801c8a0d6$7a1a5250$2a9ad2cc@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <02f901c8a102$550497b0$6601a8c0@YOUR6D949099C0> I just happen to have William Holland's (Young Harris, Georgia) 2008 schedule here on my desk and there is one class geared specifically toward kids 8 and up. It's called Junior Rockhounds, and the only time it's offered is the week of June 15-21. They'll cover rocks, minerals, gems, fossils and crystals, go on a rock hunt, etc. "A parent or grandparent must be enrolled in a class that week and be on the school grounds during class hours" (quoted directly from the course description). Not sure what other classes they may allow kids to take, but minimum age is 12 and a student under 16 has to be enrolled in the same class as the parent. Under 18, they have to have a parent on the premises and be housed in the same bedroom as the parent. If you email Suzanne at lapidary@alltel.net she can answer any more questions you have. I've attended WH 3 times and I LOVE it there! Hope that gives you somewhere to start, CaroL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Wimpee" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:33 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for Kids? Help! Consider William Holland Lapidary School in North Carolina. It is affiliated with the Southeast Federation of Mineral Societies. I'm not sure of their minimum age requirement. See www.sfms.org Glenn > From: sunstone3@hvc.rr.com> To: Rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com> Date: Thu, > 17 Apr 2008 18:00:40 -0400> CC: > Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for > Kids? Help!> > To the list: One of our members is looking for a summer > camp for her 13 year old that emphasizes rockhounding, lapidary and > geology.> > She lives in the Poughkeepsie, NY area.> > Carolyn Reynard> > Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society> > --- StripMime Report -- > processed MIME parts ---> multipart/alternative> text/plain (text body -- > kept)> text/html> ---> -- > From Pmodreski at aol.com Thu Apr 17 21:23:23 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Thu Apr 17 21:23:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Used cutting oil Message-ID: In a message dated 4/17/2008 7:00:10 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Kreigh@tomaszewski.net writes: Flower_ garden (not vegetable garden). If all you have been cutting is agate, the sludge is essentially sand. If you do a good job of draining the oil out, what little is left doesn't seem to cause a problem with plants. Kreigh Although of course, if they were cutting many other things on the saw... at the USGS, where we use our rock saws to cut all kinds of rock, often ore samples containing galena, pyrite, and who knows what (I know, because I'd cut such things on the saws myself), we'd save and dispose of the sludge as hazardous waste, because we'd never know just how much lead, zinc, copper, manganese, arsenic, uranium, and so on, might be in it. I wouldn't want to use that in any garden! But the average rockhound doesn't cut a lot of those kinds of mineral-bearing rocks... hopefully. Pete **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Fri Apr 18 03:34:21 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Fri Apr 18 03:35:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! References: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01c8a13f$c37addc0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> The earthquake woke me up. My cat left the bed a short time before it happened, although he gets up about that time so I can't say it was related. I knew it was a quake immediately because it felt like the 5.1 (or so) in Maysville, KY in 1980. The vibration was similar to a slow moving freight train (I live near the tracks), but there was no sound of a locomotive. It lasted about 10 seconds here. The epicenter is located near Mt. Carmel, Illinois and it is associated in the geographic area where the New Madrid fault zone disperses by fanning out into numerous faults. Earthquakes of this size occur in this area every 20 years or so. (There was one in 1987 and another in 1968.) Alan Goldstein Louisville, KY From Ted at crystalgems.com Fri Apr 18 04:19:18 2008 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Fri Apr 18 04:19:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for Kids? Help! In-Reply-To: <06c801c8a0d6$7a1a5250$2a9ad2cc@feldsparflash> References: <06c801c8a0d6$7a1a5250$2a9ad2cc@feldsparflash> Message-ID: <007801c8a146$0b794a20$0200a8c0@LaptopLand1> Carolyn: While not a rock hunting summer camp, tell your friend to contact the local universities and inquire if they are conducting any field activities this spring/summer. Lapidary would be a tough one to find, but many paleo departments do multi-week digs and welcome volunteers. Local archaeologists may also be doing a local dig, but they may not be quite so involved in any of the three. If there are any geology departments, they may have summer work for volunteers. Ted Fredericksburg VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Reynard Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 6:01 PM To: Rockhounds Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock Camp for Kids? Help! To the list: One of our members is looking for a summer camp for her 13 year old that emphasizes rockhounding, lapidary and geology. She lives in the Poughkeepsie, NY area. Carolyn Reynard Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Fri Apr 18 04:40:15 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Fri Apr 18 04:35:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re : Rockhound Camp Message-ID: <003d01c8a148$f83c2e70$2a9ad2cc@feldsparflash> Thank you Ted, Carol and Glenn for info on Junior Rockhound summer camp ideas. The William Holland sounds ideal!! Carolyn --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From kadok at infowest.com Fri Apr 18 09:08:25 2008 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Apr 18 09:02:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior><003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP><004901c8a0c8$6e4ccf10$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <003601c8a16e$6f44bf30$0200a8c0@kadok> There is also a new tilt-shift attachment called a "Lensbaby",)--that uses your lens (I think) -- it has a bellows, and you can actually take a picture around a 90 degree corner with it. Margaret -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:45 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? Actually there are lenses like that, their exisitence would probably not be known outside of the photography community: < http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=15 6&modelid=7322 > Tilt and Shift lenses. Much used by architectural photographers to fix the converging line problem. They aren't much use for macro photography tho with a minimum focus distance of 40cm. Canon makes 3 T&S lenses. BK > There are no such lenses but there are bellows that can be tilted and > turned > at both sides obtaining similar result. They are used for mainly technical > purposes wher DOF is important and some art photography. > Why are they used instead of stacking software? RIGHT, the photographer > STILL reserves the right for himself to choose were his photo is in or out > focus. There are plenty of examples on the internet. > > http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/24004-my-self- > made-tilt-shift-bellows.html > Look at the flower on this page: > http://www.outdoorphotographer.com/content/2007/july/macro.shtml > Not stacked, just tilted lens. The flower is sharp as it should and the > rest > is beautifully out of focus. > I rest my case. > > > 4. The depth of focus of our eyes is far better than that > > of a camera. > > No, it's not nearly as good as a good technical camera can achieve. > > > > This means that a photo (not stacked) does > > show in fact even less than your eyes would see directly. In > > fact the depth of focus of human eyes is perhaps not "far > > better", but the brains combine the images of both eyes... in > > fact what we see is a "stack" of two images... a photo shows > > only one image instead of a combination of two. > > I don't agree (but you knew that) ;-))) > You don't SEE more with both eyes! > Your brain actually fills in the gaps just like the "unshap mask" filter > does in photoshop. You think you see more but you may in fact see things > that only appear to be there. That is how we actually recognize faces. We > look at mouth, eyes and nose and the brain fills in the rest in a few > thousands of a second. But sometimes the brain fails and we mistake people > for someone else. > > > 5. Any photographer would have no objection to a > > photographic panoramic view. Again, this is an example of > > something that we would not be able to see with our eyes. > > We see about 180 degrees or so. Try that with a fish-eye lens and look at > the ridiculous amount of distortion. You seriously underestimate our eyes, > Rik. > > > 6. The purpose of a photo has, IMHO, always some > > didactical purpose, and therefore, the more detailed information > > one can show clearly in one photo, the better. Even if that > > necessitates the use of stacking software. On the condition, > > however, that nothing is shown that wasn't there in reality. > > Then it would become fake. > > Photography means "painting with light", creating a facsimile of reality. > Reality is dicontinous. It is like a string of pearls where each pearl is > a > moment in time. You scan the depth of the object you perceive in limited > time frames (about 1/30 of a second per frame). > A photo HAS to be a pearl. What you see at ONE monent in time. Only then > can > it be a true representation of the world that we see. You can't focus on > every distance at once so any close-up photo that is in focus all over has > to be a fake > > > 7. Perhaps the most important of my arguments is that a > > stacked composition of photos shows nothing that was not > > really present, therefore for me nothing is wrong with such > > type of imaging. > > You confuse a photo with a movie. There you can zoom in without violating > reality. > > > And I admit that there is, as always, some sort of a gray > > zone : what about the correction of a wrongly tuned color > > temperature ? > > Why would you do that when you used the right camera setting and the right > lighting? > > >What about enhancing sharpness, > > That you can't do. There are PS-filters that EMULATE the effect by merging > pixels and adjusting this and that... Ultimately you CREATE (and I have > demonstrated that on several occasions) artefacts that are not there. > Lines > and grooves that are simply create by your software suddenly appear and > your > photo seems so much richer in detail...that wasn't there in reality. > Enough > licht to subdue noise and take the time to focus.... Those are the tricks > that make a photo sharp. > > > >contrast etc ? > > RE-Why would you do that when you used the right camera setting and the > right lighting? > > > What about the use of a "soft focus" lens, that reduces > > sharpness artificially ? Those things are done digitally, but > > were done as well in the dark room in the last century. > > Also in analogous photography many techniques produce images > > that are not exactly as the naked eye would see. > > Art, Rik... Art... Art has no foothold in reality unless and only so far > sa > the artist deems in appropriate. > > > On the other hand I want to emphasize on the fact that I > > don't even have any stacking software, and so far I did never > > use it. Since the time I have a decent digital camera I did > > not have the time to do much about photography of minerals. > > So I am not defending "my technique". > > I hope to get to mineral photography as soon as I will retire > > (that is 1 July 2010). > > We rejoice in the prospect ;-))) > I'm sure you'll have our full attention. > > > And of course, this is just my opinion and interpretation of > > things, not the absolute truth. I think that this discussion > > is fruitful as such, and everyone has to distill his own > > conclusions from it. > > NOW we agree (roflmao). > It was fun refuting you... This seems to be an never-ending story... > > Cheers my friend > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From jabac at hal-pc.org Fri Apr 18 09:07:37 2008 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jbacko) Date: Fri Apr 18 09:09:18 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4808C749.8020409@hal-pc.org> Pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > Margaret, > > Rockhound State Park is a really neat place--I enjoyed it very much when I > was there a couple of years ago. > > On the road toward the Park, you pass the rock shop run by Robert Colburn > aka "Paul the Geode Kid", which is a real "Trip", don't miss stopping there (and > don't be afraid to go in, it's not as bad as it looks, though I've known > some who thought that--it's quite the piece of desert rats Americana--and they > have very neat rocks there). It goes by the impressive name of Basin Range > Volcanics Geolapidary museum (you can check out their web page, too). They > own the rights to the famous Baker Ranch geode claims, but except on special > occasions, I don't know if they allow any public digging there. > > In the town of Deming, the town museum is really worth seeing--it's quite > large, has ALL kinds of historical stuff, and an awesome agate collection (on > loan from Paul). > > Those are my 2 cents about southern NM, > > Pete Modreski > > Ditto. It is clean and well-maintained. But there is not too much shaded area and no trees. Just be advised that most of the good areas in RSP are up the STEEP trails, and there is some effort involved in finding things. I found some good agate and a nice 10 lb chunk of red and purple jasper there, all cuttable, though the agate was in small pieces. There is a rock shop just South of town on the main street. They have some good stuff and the prices are not outrageous. They can also give you info on local collecting conditions. Most of the nodule areas are under new claims now, so you can visit but probably ought not to try collecting very hard. Collecting is good but sparse around he fluorite areas NE of town. There are some nice areas of picture rhyolite there also, in red, grey, and muted yellow. All reachable with a two-wheel drive vehicle. john From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Fri Apr 18 13:14:34 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Fri Apr 18 13:16:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior><003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP><004901c8a0c8$6e4ccf10$6401a8c0@AxelHP><3416260694644375202@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <004101c8a190$d1e7efa0$a4425351@AxelHP> Bryan & Rik, (& all ;-))) There has never been any device or medium that was capable of exactly reproducing reality. If it did exist it would be called a matter transporter or a beammeupscotty. We have to work with approximations. A good photographer is someone who minimizes the flaws in his equipment and maximizes his talent for observation the subject and capturing it. Cheers Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens J Bryan Kramer > Verzonden: donderdag 17 april 2008 23:34 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? > > For scientific photography you are of course right Rik. > Unfortunately there is no such thing as an exact reproduction > in photography. You can approach that ideal but only by > shooting a color target in each shot and then using Photoshop > to try to match the known colors in the target. A rarely done > procedure. You would also have to use a heavily color managed > workflow and the color would only be correct on a calibrated > monitor. If you printed the photo you would have to soft > proof the file and color manage the printer and paper. > > Variations in the lighting used will radically affect the > reproduced colors otherwise. > > BK > > Indeed. So I will be very short this time. > > Anyway, for me (most of) my arguments stay valid, although some of > > them can be interpreted the other way. > > The most important principle for me is : a photo should show only > > things that were really there. Otherwise it's fake. > > I heard several times the word "art". Well, I'm not an artist when > > photographing. > > I just want good images of my minerals, with as little > effort as possible. > > > > Grts, > > > > Rik DILLEN > > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail > > rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > > > MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 > > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an > illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." > Arnold Newman > > > J Bryan Kramer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From ajs at frii.com Fri Apr 18 13:27:12 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Fri Apr 18 13:29:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips In-Reply-To: <00f801c8a0ea$306b9f10$6800a8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <20080418202712.B16A31CC44@io.frii.com> > NE Arizona is petrified wood country. Just stop at any pebbly road or > road cut. Or a road that has a trench running along side. "No > collecting" is only on National Park, State Park, and of course, > private property. Be careful; at least in Arizona, state trust lands, usually 1 square mile out of each 36, and blue on BLM maps, are off-limits without a permit, and you can't get one for rockhounding. I found this really surprising when I called a few years ago and talked with someone in the appropriate state government department. They take it seriously. Alan Silverstein From kadok at infowest.com Fri Apr 18 13:37:29 2008 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Fri Apr 18 13:31:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] New Mexico collecting tips In-Reply-To: <4808C749.8020409@hal-pc.org> References: <4808C749.8020409@hal-pc.org> Message-ID: <001701c8a194$05bfd970$0200a8c0@kadok> Thanks, John! > Ditto. It is clean and well-maintained. But there is not too much shaded Area and no trees. Just be advised that most of the good areas in RSP are up the STEEP trails, and there is some effort involved in finding things. I found some good agate and a nice 10 lb chunk of red and purple jasper there, all cuttable, though the agate was in small pieces. There is a rock shop just South of town on the main street. They have some good stuff and the prices are not outrageous. They can also give you info on local collecting conditions. Most of the nodule areas are under new claims now, so you can visit but probably ought not to try collecting very hard. Collecting is good but sparse around he fluorite areas NE of town. There are some nice areas of picture rhyolite there also, in red, grey, and muted yellow. All reachable with a two-wheel drive vehicle. john -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From efkern at earthlink.net Fri Apr 18 17:32:15 2008 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Fri Apr 18 17:32:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] AD: FGMS selling minerals and fossils Sunday at Fallbrook's Avocado Festival Message-ID: <002001c8a1b4$d1e462d0$6400a8c0@TheBlackAdder> Fallbrook Gem & Mineral Society (FGMS) Fallbrook, California. Web site at http://www.fgms.org Sunday, April 20th, 2007 will be Fallbrook's 22nd Annual Avocado Festival, with an expected attendance of 70,000! Fallbrook Gem & Mineral Society invites everyone to visit us at 123 W. Alvarado Street, across from the public parking lot on Alvarado St (entrance on Mission Rd or Pico St.). Take the Fallbrook / Mission Road exit from the 15 freeway and follow Mission Rd. to downtown. FGMS will be in full force with a large booth in front of the building, selling mineral and fossil specimens, slabs of all sizes, and especially for the kids, our famous "grab bags", spoonfuls and children's necklaces of tumbled stones. Raffle tickets for FGMS's annual Fall Festival of Gems (Oct. 5th) will be on sale (only $5 each) in the booth and many of the raffle prizes will be on display...get your tickets early! Our team of "strong-armed" men will operate our geode cracker next to the booth, which is always a crowd pleaser and a delight for everyone to see what's inside those geodes! On the upper patio of the building will be a special gem identification booth, which will be manned by members of the San Diego Gem and Mineral Society. Garth Bricker, Curator of the FGMS Museum, will be in the Museum to provide tours and answer questions. The Museum Gift Shop will be open, offering many new books, mineral and fossil gift items, soap rocks and a fabulous jewelry collection created by the FGMS Beading Brigade. The Avocado Festival runs from 9 am to 5 pm. From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Apr 18 18:53:21 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Apr 18 18:48:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! References: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000b01c8a13f$c37addc0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <48094EFF.5A38@Tomaszewski.net> I'm in Michigan, about 450 miles north of today's 5.2 quake in southern IL (and this afternoon's 4.6 aftershock in southern IN). Many people felt and heard the quake. I slept thru it, but many of my coworkers were woken up by it. What I found most interesting is that there were widespread local reports of animals gathering in open places (like the roads) about 15 minutes before the quake. There were also reports of worms coming out of the ground, and pets waking people up wanting deperately to go outside. Kreigh Alan Goldstein wrote: > > The earthquake woke me up. My cat left the bed a short time before it > happened, although he gets up about that time so I can't say it was related. > > I knew it was a quake immediately because it felt like the 5.1 (or so) in > Maysville, KY in 1980. The vibration was similar to a slow moving freight > train (I live near the tracks), but there was no sound of a locomotive. It > lasted about 10 seconds here. > > The epicenter is located near Mt. Carmel, Illinois and it is associated in > the geographic area where the New Madrid fault zone disperses by fanning out > into numerous faults. Earthquakes of this size occur in this area every 20 > years or so. (There was one in 1987 and another in 1968.) > > Alan Goldstein > Louisville, KY > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Apr 18 19:25:31 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Apr 18 19:26:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! In-Reply-To: <48094EFF.5A38@Tomaszewski.net> References: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000b01c8a13f$c37addc0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <48094EFF.5A38@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <4809581B.9050804@hawaiiantel.net> I've read that scientists insist that animals cannot possibly be more sensitive to an impending earthquake than the delicate instruments designed to detect quakes. But there continue to be reports of that happening. There are no such reports here in Hawaii, perhaps because our quakes are mostly caused by lava readjustment rather than large plate movement. I wonder if that movement might cause an extremely high-pitched sound that animals can hear rather than feel. However, I'm not a scientist! Aloha, Kitty Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > I'm in Michigan, about 450 miles north of today's 5.2 quake in southern > IL (and this afternoon's 4.6 aftershock in southern IN). Many people > felt and heard the quake. I slept thru it, but many of my coworkers were > woken up by it. > > What I found most interesting is that there were widespread local > reports of animals gathering in open places (like the roads) about 15 > minutes before the quake. There were also reports of worms coming out of > the ground, and pets waking people up wanting deperately to go outside. > > Kreigh > > From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Fri Apr 18 20:49:29 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Fri Apr 18 20:49:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! In-Reply-To: <000b01c8a13f$c37addc0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000b01c8a13f$c37addc0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <48096BC9.7050703@hawaiiantel.net> Scientists say that it's impossible to hear an earthquake coming before you feel the shaking. However Bill and I have heard a sound as a precursor to a quake twice: once here in Hawaii, and once in New Zealand. It's a low, deep rumbling sound that occurs just a few seconds before the shaking is felt. The one in Hawaii we also SAW it coming when we were in a forest here on the Big Island: we were alerted by the rumbling, and could see the trees shaking back and forth in the distance and the movement coming towards us and then past us, like a dog shaking it's back. Ever looked closely at a dog shaking? It starts at the head and travels down the back to the tail. We saw and heard the quake move like that towards us, then past us. And the rumbling sound could not have been caused by shaking buildings or machinery in a forest with no civilization about. Aloha, Kitty Alan Goldstein wrote: > The earthquake woke me up. My cat left the bed a short time before it > happened, although he gets up about that time so I can't say it was > related. > > I knew it was a quake immediately because it felt like the 5.1 (or so) > in Maysville, KY in 1980. The vibration was similar to a slow moving > freight train (I live near the tracks), but there was no sound of a > locomotive. It lasted about 10 seconds here. > > The epicenter is located near Mt. Carmel, Illinois and it is > associated in the geographic area where the New Madrid fault zone > disperses by fanning out into numerous faults. Earthquakes of this > size occur in this area every 20 years or so. (There was one in 1987 > and another in 1968.) > > Alan Goldstein > Louisville, KY > From rockhounds at adelphia.net Fri Apr 18 22:15:29 2008 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (rockhounds@adelphia.net) Date: Fri Apr 18 22:15:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Memorial Day weekend Message-ID: <19409881.1208582129183.JavaMail.root@web19> Hi Dawn Our club here in North Idaho wants to visit your mine that weekend. Our feild trip person would love to visit with you by phone to set up the trip. There would be 6 to 10 of us travleing there. Contact me off line at rockhounds@rodrunner.com if you like. WE usually go to ashwood that time slot but we have never been to yours or the Hollywood site! Thanks Kelly ---- "Dawn M. Fredricks" wrote: > > For any of you that will be in Oregon Memorial Day weekend, Northwest Mineral Prospectors Club will again be at our claim in Quartzville and invite any guest to attend. You can contact me for a map, the site is 27 miles from Sweet Home Oregon. We will also be taking a trip to the Holleywood Ranch, recently seen on Cash & Treasures. Brad, the owner, only plans on being open about a year, before he fills the 'pit' in to flood it and make it a water skiing lake! We will be taking the club on Sunday of Memorial Day, don't want to miss the Pot Luck the club has on Saturday! > > Please rsvp, the club will be providing smoked Tri Tip roast that my dh will be cooking! > > Dawn Fredricks > Portland, OR > www.nwmpc.com > www.holleywoodranch.com > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From onehawkz at gmail.com Sat Apr 19 01:10:31 2008 From: onehawkz at gmail.com (onehawkz@gmail.com) Date: Sat Apr 19 01:12:51 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] onehawkz@gmail.com shared a video with you Message-ID: StumbleVideo See what's on your channel! YouTube - Simon and Garfunkel &Sound of Silence& in Central Park : http://video.stumbleupon.com?s=20la7dbg8d&i=ct88lq90u7y7b9glr3o7 Check out this video. It's really cool! -- onehawkz (onehawkz@gmail.com) Learn more about StumbleVideo or Try It Now at http://video.stumbleupon.com ! *About StumbleVideo* StumbleVideo allows you to channel-surf great videos from throughout the internet based upon your interests -- creating your own Personal Video Channel. You too can discover, rate and share videos. Learn More or Try It Now! (c) StumbleUpon 2001-2008 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From rik.dillen at skynet.be Sat Apr 19 02:14:46 2008 From: rik.dillen at skynet.be (Rik Dillen) Date: Sat Apr 19 02:15:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? In-Reply-To: References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <004901c8a0c8$6e4ccf10$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <3416260694644375202@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <000b01c8a1fd$d00a8f90$701faeb0$@dillen@skynet.be> You are completely right, Bryan. No print is exactly the same (colorwise) as the image on the screen and/or what we really see and probably even what someone else sees ! Grts, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, ?B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen ? MINERANT 2008? -? 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 12:34 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? For scientific photography you are of course right Rik. Unfortunately there is no such thing as an exact reproduction in photography. You can approach that ideal but only by shooting a color target in each shot and then using Photoshop to try to match the known colors in the target. A rarely done procedure. You would also have to use a heavily color managed workflow and the color would only be correct on a calibrated monitor. If you printed the photo you would have to soft proof the file and color manage the printer and paper. Variations in the lighting used will radically affect the reproduced colors otherwise. BK Indeed. So I will be very short this time. > Anyway, for me (most of) my arguments stay valid, although some of them > can be interpreted the other way. > The most important principle for me is : a photo should show only things > that were really there. Otherwise it's fake. > I heard several times the word "art". Well, I'm not an artist when > photographing. > I just want good images of my minerals, with as little effort as possible. > > Grts, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rockhounds at lists.drizzle.com Sat Apr 19 06:52:13 2008 From: rockhounds at lists.drizzle.com (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) Date: Sat Apr 19 06:53:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel Message-ID: <20080419065215.17525.qmail@skay> Thought I would let you know about the Fashion Footwear SPRING Sale! Men and Women Designer Shoes, Heels, Sandals and Boots, All Half-OFF, Buy Direct, Forget Department Store Prices, Get Exclusive 2008 Gucci Prada Chanel, Christian Dior, Dsquared, Versace D&G, Uggs and More! They Ship International for FREE on all Orders! http://devaldeorras.com/New/ From rockhounds at adelphia.net Sat Apr 19 08:52:51 2008 From: rockhounds at adelphia.net (rockhounds@adelphia.net) Date: Sat Apr 19 08:53:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA Message-ID: <29134306.1208620371302.JavaMail.root@web33> What kind of material is found thereKelly ---- Tim Fisher wrote: > Quite a few people from NARG have been there already. I prefer to > wait until the water is much lower and the stream is wadable. I don't > think it has significantly changed. The channel is so incised that it > would take a Biblical sized flood to leave any major obstacles. > > At 08:01 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote: > >Can anyone tell me if digging at salmon creek at this time of year > >is possible, especially after the flooding in the area this winter. > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com Sat Apr 19 08:57:13 2008 From: mp44sturm-rocks at yahoo.com (Sandra B. Gee) Date: Sat Apr 19 08:57:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel In-Reply-To: <20080419065215.17525.qmail@skay> Message-ID: <478408.33460.qm@web34207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hey, I like shoes, but what does this have to do with rocks? Maybe they are selling Rock Port shoes? Sandra. --- rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com wrote: > Thought I would let you know about the Fashion > Footwear SPRING Sale! > Men and Women Designer Shoes, Heels, Sandals and > Boots, All Half-OFF, > Buy Direct, Forget Department Store Prices, Get > Exclusive 2008 Gucci > Prada Chanel, Christian Dior, Dsquared, Versace D&G, > Uggs and More! > They Ship International for FREE on all Orders! > > http://devaldeorras.com/New/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From codeburner at gmail.com Sat Apr 19 09:53:56 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Sat Apr 19 09:54:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Midwest quake Message-ID: This has some seriously wrong info in it: The New Madrid quakes may have been five quakes over 8, one maybe 8.5 not the 7 reported in the story. I guess this is the level of knowledge you can expect from the majority of reporters. It took me about 10 seconds to check the facts. BK -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From betdav97 at aol.com Sat Apr 19 11:24:09 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 19 11:24:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel In-Reply-To: <478408.33460.qm@web34207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CA7061B1EE5D79-37C-4A2@FWM-M18.sysops.aol.com> I've gotten quite a few spams from the list lately and have forwared them to John S. but I haven't heard back as to how it happens. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Sandra B. Gee To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:57 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel Hey, I like shoes, but what does this have to do with rocks? Maybe they are selling Rock Port shoes? Sandra. --- rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com wrote: > Thought I would let you know about the Fashion > Footwear SPRING Sale! > Men and Women Designer Shoes, Heels, Sandals and > Boots, All Half-OFF, > Buy Direct, Forget Department Store Prices, Get > Exclusive 2008 Gucci > Prada Chanel, Christian Dior, Dsquared, Versace D&G, > Uggs and More! > They Ship International for FREE on all Orders! > > http://devaldeorras.com/New/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at copper.net Sat Apr 19 11:39:10 2008 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Sat Apr 19 11:38:54 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel In-Reply-To: <8CA7061B1EE5D79-37C-4A2@FWM-M18.sysops.aol.com> References: <478408.33460.qm@web34207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CA7061B1EE5D79-37C-4A2@FWM-M18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:24:09 -0400, betdav97@aol.com wrote: > I've gotten quite a few spams from the list lately and have forwared >them to John S. but I haven't heard back as to how it happens. >Dave However it happens, please don't reward the spammer by posting his advertisement all over again. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From RicSchager at aol.com Sat Apr 19 11:58:52 2008 From: RicSchager at aol.com (RicSchager@aol.com) Date: Sat Apr 19 11:58:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA - laws Message-ID: Per the January 2008 Washington State Mineral Council newsletter, Salmon Creek is being added to the State Fish and Wildlife department's list of regulated waters. Aimed primarily at water quality for fish, it not only regulates gold prospecting, but actually controls digging in all waterways. _Washington State Mineral Council_ (http://www.mineralcouncil.org/) Rich. What kind of material is found thereKelly ---- Tim Fisher wrote: > Quite a few people from NARG have been there already. I prefer to > wait until the water is much lower and the stream is wadable. I don't > think it has significantly changed. The channel is so incised that it > would take a Biblical sized flood to leave any major obstacles. > > At 08:01 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote: > >Can anyone tell me if digging at salmon creek at this time of year > >is possible, especially after the flooding in the area this winter. > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Apr 19 12:06:23 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sat Apr 19 12:07:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Spam on List Message-ID: <005001c8a250$7ce7d270$0200a8c0@Notebook> Hi folks, We're working on the Spam issue. onehawkATgmail aka Robert Denton has spammed the list before and was deleted from the membership. Apparently he signed back up and now has been banned for life. We're not sure how the other Spam slipped through the filter but we are contacting Drizzle for information. Dave wrote: >I've gotten quite a few spams from the list lately and have forwared them to John S. but I haven't heard back as to how it happens. Dave, The one you sent me today was the first I've received so please re-send any others (directly to me off-list). Stay cool - John Siebel --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sat Apr 19 12:28:26 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sat Apr 19 12:28:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! In-Reply-To: <4809581B.9050804@hawaiiantel.net> References: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000b01c8a13f$c37addc0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><48094EFF.5A38@Tomaszewski.net> <4809581B.9050804@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <003501c8a253$8a5c28e0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> > I've read that scientists insist that animals cannot possibly > be more sensitive to an impending earthquake than the > delicate instruments designed to detect quakes. But there > continue to be reports of that happening. There are no such > reports here in Hawaii, perhaps because our quakes are mostly > caused by lava readjustment rather than large plate movement. > I wonder if that movement might cause an extremely > high-pitched sound that animals can hear rather than feel. > However, I'm not a scientist! Hi Kitty, If I'm not mistaking, it's just opposite: an extremely low-pitched sound or infra-sound. I just saw a documentary on National Geographic High Definition Channel that demonstrated that quite some animals can feel the infra-sound and react to it. It's just a few hertz, apparently. Cheers from Belgium Axel From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Apr 19 12:48:14 2008 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Sat Apr 19 12:50:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Onehawk and the videos... Message-ID: <002b01c8a256$554ee4a0$0300a8c0@warren> Hey, guys - I rethought the Onehawk/Video thing and looked back in my records. This guy is (actually *was* at this point) a member and so we *didn't* remove him from the list last time...we just talked to him about it. I think that what's happening is that he (or someone in his house) is using the StumbleUpon "share this video" thing and is sending to his entire address book or something, because others have gotten "personal" emails from him on the same topic. (Stymbleupon has an option to import your address books.) Regardless, it won't happen again unless he signs up with a different email addy (and then I don't think it would happen, because Stumbleupon would still be using the old email address). Anyway, at least it wasn't a bot issue, and that will be ONE problem solved. I'll let ya know what Drizzle says about the spam issue. Julie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Sat Apr 19 13:08:21 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Sat Apr 19 13:07:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Onehawk and the videos... In-Reply-To: <002b01c8a256$554ee4a0$0300a8c0@warren> References: <002b01c8a256$554ee4a0$0300a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <480A5135.6090909@verizon.net> Thanks all admins! This list gets spa*med once in a very blue moon; unlike so many other lists. Notice that when it does happen, it is remarkable! Thanks for all your hard work! Don From julie.siebel at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sat Apr 19 12:42:01 2008 From: julie.siebel at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Sat Apr 19 18:42:04 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Onehawk and the videos... Message-ID: <001c01c8a255$76ad06f0$0300a8c0@warren> Hey, guys - I rethought the Onehawk/Video thing and looked back in my records. This guy is (actually *was* at this point) a member and so we *didn't* remove him from the list last time...we just talked to him about it. I think that what's happening is that he (or someone in his house) is using the StumbleUpon "share this video" thing and is sending to his entire address book or something, because others have gotten "personal" emails from him on the same topic. Regardless, it won't happen again unless he signs up with a different email addy (and then I don't think it would happen, because Stumbleupon would still be using the old email address). Anyway, at least it wasn't a bot issue, and that will be ONE problem solved. I'll let ya know what Drizzle says about the spam issue. Julie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From tam2819 at cox.net Sat Apr 19 19:41:20 2008 From: tam2819 at cox.net (Teresa Masters) Date: Sat Apr 19 19:41:24 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes, plus In-Reply-To: <200804200101.m3K11mOu007642@bubbleator.drizzle.com> References: <200804200101.m3K11mOu007642@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <6F4CD53B-103B-4F16-92E6-B64629CB2D49@cox.net> I was away from California, skiing in Utah, when we had a sizable earthquake. When I returned home, I found many items strewn about. My greatest concern had been for Crystal Liquor Stems, which had come over on the boat with my mother in 1926. Some chipped, but all survived. I spoke with neighbors, and one told me that he was outside, bending down to pick up his newspaper, when he saw the street itself coming toward him in waves, and continuing past. There was no evidence of displacement or cracking of the street or pavement, but that ties in with Kitty's comments on waves in the Forest. Amazing. Now this last Digest, it was marked as Spam by my ISP, although this is in my address book. So something in the Digest triggered a Spam alert. There was a report by a local TV consumer advocate, on some lists which tell you that someone is looking for you, this was specifically Reunion.com. The person seeking help's entire address book was solicited in the same manner, "So and so is looking for you." This is an incredible invasion, and must be dealt with. Shoddy way to solicit business. Hugs, Terrie From efkern at earthlink.net Sun Apr 20 00:33:10 2008 From: efkern at earthlink.net (Erich Kern) Date: Sun Apr 20 00:33:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Infrasound / Rock and Roll!!! References: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000b01c8a13f$c37addc0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><48094EFF.5A38@Tomaszewski.net><4809581B.9050804@hawaiiantel.net> <003501c8a253$8a5c28e0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <004e01c8a2b8$c98f8f10$6400a8c0@TheBlackAdder> I believe Axel is correct. Infrasound is generally below 10 Hz down to 0.1 Hz, and I've seen some experimental detectors. These are useful to detect earthquake precursors, large meteors entering the atmosphere and nuclear tests as part of the test ban treaty verification process. Here's a bit of info on the projects. http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/programs/infrasound/ The U. of Hawaii has an infrasound lab. Link is: http://www.isla.hawaii.edu/ Cheers, Erich ----- Original Message ----- From: Axel Emmermann To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors' Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 12:28 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! > I've read that scientists insist that animals cannot possibly > be more sensitive to an impending earthquake than the > delicate instruments designed to detect quakes. But there > continue to be reports of that happening. There are no such > reports here in Hawaii, perhaps because our quakes are mostly > caused by lava readjustment rather than large plate movement. > I wonder if that movement might cause an extremely > high-pitched sound that animals can hear rather than feel. > However, I'm not a scientist! Hi Kitty, If I'm not mistaking, it's just opposite: an extremely low-pitched sound or infra-sound. I just saw a documentary on National Geographic High Definition Channel that demonstrated that quite some animals can feel the infra-sound and react to it. It's just a few hertz, apparently. Cheers from Belgium Axel -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Apr 20 03:10:40 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Apr 20 03:10:50 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Infrasound / Rock and Roll!!! In-Reply-To: <004e01c8a2b8$c98f8f10$6400a8c0@TheBlackAdder> References: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000b01c8a13f$c37addc0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><48094EFF.5A38@Tomaszewski.net><4809581B.9050804@hawaiiantel.net><003501c8a253$8a5c28e0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> <004e01c8a2b8$c98f8f10$6400a8c0@TheBlackAdder> Message-ID: <003601c8a2ce$cb8346c0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> There's a rather informative web page that describes the effects of infrasound on humans. http://www.lowertheboom.org/trice/infrasound.htm Lower the boom? ;-))) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Erich Kern > Verzonden: zondag 20 april 2008 8:33 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Infrasound / Rock and Roll!!! > > > I believe Axel is correct. Infrasound is generally below 10 > Hz down to 0.1 Hz, and I've seen some experimental detectors. > These are useful to detect earthquake precursors, large > meteors entering the atmosphere and nuclear tests as part of > the test ban treaty verification process. > > Here's a bit of info on the projects. > http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/programs/infrasound/ > > The U. of Hawaii has an infrasound lab. Link is: > http://www.isla.hawaii.edu/ > > Cheers, > Erich > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Axel Emmermann > To: 'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors' > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 12:28 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! > > > > I've read that scientists insist that animals cannot > possibly be more > > sensitive to an impending earthquake than the delicate instruments > > designed to detect quakes. But there continue to be > reports of that > > happening. There are no such reports here in Hawaii, > perhaps because > > our quakes are mostly caused by lava readjustment rather than large > > plate movement. > > I wonder if that movement might cause an extremely > high-pitched sound > > that animals can hear rather than feel. > > However, I'm not a scientist! > > Hi Kitty, > > If I'm not mistaking, it's just opposite: an extremely > low-pitched sound or infra-sound. > I just saw a documentary on National Geographic High > Definition Channel that demonstrated that quite some animals > can feel the infra-sound and react to it. It's just a few > hertz, apparently. > > Cheers from Belgium > > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From rockcurrier at cs.com Sun Apr 20 03:36:07 2008 From: rockcurrier at cs.com (Rock Currier) Date: Sun Apr 20 04:11:08 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Re: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 47, Issue 17 References: <200804200102.m3K11oGm007651@bubbleator.drizzle.com> Message-ID: <002501c8a2d6$f25fba00$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> Kitty, I have never heard or read that scientiests scientists insist that animals cannot possibly be more sensitive to an impending earthquake than the delicate instruments designed to detect quakes. What scientiest are you talking about and what did they say? Rock ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:02 PM Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 47, Issue 17 Send Rockhounds mailing list submissions to rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to rockhounds-request@lists.drizzle.com You can reach the person managing the list at rockhounds-owner@lists.drizzle.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Rockhounds digest..." [Rockhounds-Digest] Today's Topics: 1. Re: Rock and Roll!!! (Kreigh Tomaszewski) 2. Re: Rock and Roll!!! (Kitty & Bill Heacox) 3. Re: Rock and Roll!!! (Kitty & Bill Heacox) 4. Re: Memorial Day weekend (rockhounds@adelphia.net) 5. onehawkz@gmail.com shared a video with you (onehawkz@gmail.com) 6. RE: achieving depth of field w digicam? (Rik Dillen) 7. 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel (rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com) 8. Re: salmon creek WA (rockhounds@adelphia.net) 9. Re: 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel (Sandra B. Gee) 10. Midwest quake (J Bryan Kramer) 11. Re: 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel (betdav97@aol.com) 12. Re: 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel (Al Balmer) 13. Re: salmon creek WA - laws (RicSchager@aol.com) 14. [ADMIN] Spam on List (John Siebel) 15. RE: Rock and Roll!!! (Axel Emmermann) 16. Onehawk and the videos... (Julie Siebel) 17. Re: Onehawk and the videos... (DonH) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 21:53:21 -0400 From: Kreigh Tomaszewski Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <48094EFF.5A38@Tomaszewski.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm in Michigan, about 450 miles north of today's 5.2 quake in southern IL (and this afternoon's 4.6 aftershock in southern IN). Many people felt and heard the quake. I slept thru it, but many of my coworkers were woken up by it. What I found most interesting is that there were widespread local reports of animals gathering in open places (like the roads) about 15 minutes before the quake. There were also reports of worms coming out of the ground, and pets waking people up wanting deperately to go outside. Kreigh Alan Goldstein wrote: > > The earthquake woke me up. My cat left the bed a short time before it > happened, although he gets up about that time so I can't say it was > related. > > I knew it was a quake immediately because it felt like the 5.1 (or so) in > Maysville, KY in 1980. The vibration was similar to a slow moving freight > train (I live near the tracks), but there was no sound of a locomotive. It > lasted about 10 seconds here. > > The epicenter is located near Mt. Carmel, Illinois and it is associated in > the geographic area where the New Madrid fault zone disperses by fanning > out > into numerous faults. Earthquakes of this size occur in this area every 20 > years or so. (There was one in 1987 and another in 1968.) > > Alan Goldstein > Louisville, KY > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:25:31 -1000 From: Kitty & Bill Heacox Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <4809581B.9050804@hawaiiantel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I've read that scientists insist that animals cannot possibly be more sensitive to an impending earthquake than the delicate instruments designed to detect quakes. But there continue to be reports of that happening. There are no such reports here in Hawaii, perhaps because our quakes are mostly caused by lava readjustment rather than large plate movement. I wonder if that movement might cause an extremely high-pitched sound that animals can hear rather than feel. However, I'm not a scientist! Aloha, Kitty Kreigh Tomaszewski wrote: > I'm in Michigan, about 450 miles north of today's 5.2 quake in southern > IL (and this afternoon's 4.6 aftershock in southern IN). Many people > felt and heard the quake. I slept thru it, but many of my coworkers were > woken up by it. > > What I found most interesting is that there were widespread local > reports of animals gathering in open places (like the roads) about 15 > minutes before the quake. There were also reports of worms coming out of > the ground, and pets waking people up wanting deperately to go outside. > > Kreigh > > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:49:29 -1000 From: Kitty & Bill Heacox Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <48096BC9.7050703@hawaiiantel.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Scientists say that it's impossible to hear an earthquake coming before you feel the shaking. However Bill and I have heard a sound as a precursor to a quake twice: once here in Hawaii, and once in New Zealand. It's a low, deep rumbling sound that occurs just a few seconds before the shaking is felt. The one in Hawaii we also SAW it coming when we were in a forest here on the Big Island: we were alerted by the rumbling, and could see the trees shaking back and forth in the distance and the movement coming towards us and then past us, like a dog shaking it's back. Ever looked closely at a dog shaking? It starts at the head and travels down the back to the tail. We saw and heard the quake move like that towards us, then past us. And the rumbling sound could not have been caused by shaking buildings or machinery in a forest with no civilization about. Aloha, Kitty Alan Goldstein wrote: > The earthquake woke me up. My cat left the bed a short time before it > happened, although he gets up about that time so I can't say it was > related. > > I knew it was a quake immediately because it felt like the 5.1 (or so) > in Maysville, KY in 1980. The vibration was similar to a slow moving > freight train (I live near the tracks), but there was no sound of a > locomotive. It lasted about 10 seconds here. > > The epicenter is located near Mt. Carmel, Illinois and it is > associated in the geographic area where the New Madrid fault zone > disperses by fanning out into numerous faults. Earthquakes of this > size occur in this area every 20 years or so. (There was one in 1987 > and another in 1968.) > > Alan Goldstein > Louisville, KY > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:15:29 -0700 From: Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Memorial Day weekend To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Cc: "Dawn M. Fredricks" Message-ID: <19409881.1208582129183.JavaMail.root@web19> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Dawn Our club here in North Idaho wants to visit your mine that weekend. Our feild trip person would love to visit with you by phone to set up the trip. There would be 6 to 10 of us travleing there. Contact me off line at rockhounds@rodrunner.com if you like. WE usually go to ashwood that time slot but we have never been to yours or the Hollywood site! Thanks Kelly ---- "Dawn M. Fredricks" wrote: > > For any of you that will be in Oregon Memorial Day weekend, Northwest > Mineral Prospectors Club will again be at our claim in Quartzville and > invite any guest to attend. You can contact me for a map, the site is 27 > miles from Sweet Home Oregon. We will also be taking a trip to the > Holleywood Ranch, recently seen on Cash & Treasures. Brad, the owner, > only plans on being open about a year, before he fills the 'pit' in to > flood it and make it a water skiing lake! We will be taking the club on > Sunday of Memorial Day, don't want to miss the Pot Luck the club has on > Saturday! > > Please rsvp, the club will be providing smoked Tri Tip roast that my dh > will be cooking! > > Dawn Fredricks > Portland, OR > www.nwmpc.com > www.holleywoodranch.com > > > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 01:10:31 -0700 From: onehawkz@gmail.com Subject: [Rockhounds] onehawkz@gmail.com shared a video with you To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset = "iso-8859-1" StumbleVideo See what's on your channel! YouTube - Simon and Garfunkel &Sound of Silence& in Central Park : http://video.stumbleupon.com?s=20la7dbg8d&i=ct88lq90u7y7b9glr3o7 Check out this video. It's really cool! -- onehawkz (onehawkz@gmail.com) Learn more about StumbleVideo or Try It Now at http://video.stumbleupon.com ! *About StumbleVideo* StumbleVideo allows you to channel-surf great videos from throughout the internet based upon your interests -- creating your own Personal Video Channel. You too can discover, rate and share videos. Learn More or Try It Now! (c) StumbleUpon 2001-2008 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:14:46 +0200 From: "Rik Dillen" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Message-ID: <000b01c8a1fd$d00a8f90$701faeb0$@dillen@skynet.be> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" You are completely right, Bryan. No print is exactly the same (colorwise) as the image on the screen and/or what we really see and probably even what someone else sees ! Grts, Rik DILLEN Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas Belgium E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of J Bryan Kramer Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 12:34 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] achieving depth of field w digicam? For scientific photography you are of course right Rik. Unfortunately there is no such thing as an exact reproduction in photography. You can approach that ideal but only by shooting a color target in each shot and then using Photoshop to try to match the known colors in the target. A rarely done procedure. You would also have to use a heavily color managed workflow and the color would only be correct on a calibrated monitor. If you printed the photo you would have to soft proof the file and color manage the printer and paper. Variations in the lighting used will radically affect the reproduced colors otherwise. BK Indeed. So I will be very short this time. > Anyway, for me (most of) my arguments stay valid, although some of them > can be interpreted the other way. > The most important principle for me is : a photo should show only things > that were really there. Otherwise it's fake. > I heard several times the word "art". Well, I'm not an artist when > photographing. > I just want good images of my minerals, with as little effort as possible. > > Grts, > > Rik DILLEN > Doornstraat 15, B-9170 Sint-Gillis-Waas > Belgium > E-mail rik.dillen@skynet.be > Homepage : http://users.skynet.be/rik.dillen > > MINERANT 2008 - 26-27 April 2008 > Bouwcentrum (Antwerp Expo) > Jan Van Rijswijcklaan 191 Antwerpen > http://www.minerant.org/mka/minerantnl.html > Mineral collector's page http://www.minerant.org/ > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 06:52:13 -0700 From: Subject: [Rockhounds] 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel To: Message-ID: <20080419065215.17525.qmail@skay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Thought I would let you know about the Fashion Footwear SPRING Sale! Men and Women Designer Shoes, Heels, Sandals and Boots, All Half-OFF, Buy Direct, Forget Department Store Prices, Get Exclusive 2008 Gucci Prada Chanel, Christian Dior, Dsquared, Versace D&G, Uggs and More! They Ship International for FREE on all Orders! http://devaldeorras.com/New/ ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 8:52:51 -0700 From: Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <29134306.1208620371302.JavaMail.root@web33> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 What kind of material is found thereKelly ---- Tim Fisher wrote: > Quite a few people from NARG have been there already. I prefer to > wait until the water is much lower and the stream is wadable. I don't > think it has significantly changed. The channel is so incised that it > would take a Biblical sized flood to leave any major obstacles. > > At 08:01 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote: > >Can anyone tell me if digging at salmon creek at this time of year > >is possible, especially after the flooding in the area this winter. > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 08:57:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Sandra B. Gee" Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <478408.33460.qm@web34207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hey, I like shoes, but what does this have to do with rocks? Maybe they are selling Rock Port shoes? Sandra. --- rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com wrote: > Thought I would let you know about the Fashion > Footwear SPRING Sale! > Men and Women Designer Shoes, Heels, Sandals and > Boots, All Half-OFF, > Buy Direct, Forget Department Store Prices, Get > Exclusive 2008 Gucci > Prada Chanel, Christian Dior, Dsquared, Versace D&G, > Uggs and More! > They Ship International for FREE on all Orders! > > http://devaldeorras.com/New/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:53:56 -0400 From: "J Bryan Kramer" Subject: [Rockhounds] Midwest quake To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This has some seriously wrong info in it: The New Madrid quakes may have been five quakes over 8, one maybe 8.5 not the 7 reported in the story. I guess this is the level of knowledge you can expect from the majority of reporters. It took me about 10 seconds to check the facts. BK -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:24:09 -0400 From: betdav97@aol.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel To: mp44sturm-rocks@yahoo.com, rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: <8CA7061B1EE5D79-37C-4A2@FWM-M18.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I've gotten quite a few spams from the list lately and have forwared them to John S. but I haven't heard back as to how it happens. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Sandra B. Gee To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:57 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel Hey, I like shoes, but what does this have to do with rocks? Maybe they are selling Rock Port shoes? Sandra. --- rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com wrote: > Thought I would let you know about the Fashion > Footwear SPRING Sale! > Men and Women Designer Shoes, Heels, Sandals and > Boots, All Half-OFF, > Buy Direct, Forget Department Store Prices, Get > Exclusive 2008 Gucci > Prada Chanel, Christian Dior, Dsquared, Versace D&G, > Uggs and More! > They Ship International for FREE on all Orders! > > http://devaldeorras.com/New/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 11:39:10 -0700 From: Al Balmer Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] 60% Off All Luxury Designer Shoes & Boots Men & Women Gucci Prada Chanel To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:24:09 -0400, betdav97@aol.com wrote: > I've gotten quite a few spams from the list lately and have forwared >them to John S. but I haven't heard back as to how it happens. >Dave However it happens, please don't reward the spammer by posting his advertisement all over again. -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:58:52 EDT From: RicSchager@aol.com Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] salmon creek WA - laws To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Per the January 2008 Washington State Mineral Council newsletter, Salmon Creek is being added to the State Fish and Wildlife department's list of regulated waters. Aimed primarily at water quality for fish, it not only regulates gold prospecting, but actually controls digging in all waterways. _Washington State Mineral Council_ (http://www.mineralcouncil.org/) Rich. What kind of material is found thereKelly ---- Tim Fisher wrote: > Quite a few people from NARG have been there already. I prefer to > wait until the water is much lower and the stream is wadable. I don't > think it has significantly changed. The channel is so incised that it > would take a Biblical sized flood to leave any major obstacles. > > At 08:01 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote: > >Can anyone tell me if digging at salmon creek at this time of year > >is possible, especially after the flooding in the area this winter. > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:06:23 -0700 From: "John Siebel" Subject: [Rockhounds] [ADMIN] Spam on List To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <005001c8a250$7ce7d270$0200a8c0@Notebook> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Hi folks, We're working on the Spam issue. onehawkATgmail aka Robert Denton has spammed the list before and was deleted from the membership. Apparently he signed back up and now has been banned for life. We're not sure how the other Spam slipped through the filter but we are contacting Drizzle for information. Dave wrote: >I've gotten quite a few spams from the list lately and have forwared them to John S. but I haven't heard back as to how it happens. Dave, The one you sent me today was the first I've received so please re-send any others (directly to me off-list). Stay cool - John Siebel --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 21:28:26 +0200 From: "Axel Emmermann" Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Message-ID: <003501c8a253$8a5c28e0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" > I've read that scientists insist that animals cannot possibly > be more sensitive to an impending earthquake than the > delicate instruments designed to detect quakes. But there > continue to be reports of that happening. There are no such > reports here in Hawaii, perhaps because our quakes are mostly > caused by lava readjustment rather than large plate movement. > I wonder if that movement might cause an extremely > high-pitched sound that animals can hear rather than feel. > However, I'm not a scientist! Hi Kitty, If I'm not mistaking, it's just opposite: an extremely low-pitched sound or infra-sound. I just saw a documentary on National Geographic High Definition Channel that demonstrated that quite some animals can feel the infra-sound and react to it. It's just a few hertz, apparently. Cheers from Belgium Axel ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:48:14 -0700 From: "Julie Siebel" Subject: [Rockhounds] Onehawk and the videos... To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <002b01c8a256$554ee4a0$0300a8c0@warren> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Hey, guys - I rethought the Onehawk/Video thing and looked back in my records. This guy is (actually *was* at this point) a member and so we *didn't* remove him from the list last time...we just talked to him about it. I think that what's happening is that he (or someone in his house) is using the StumbleUpon "share this video" thing and is sending to his entire address book or something, because others have gotten "personal" emails from him on the same topic. (Stymbleupon has an option to import your address books.) Regardless, it won't happen again unless he signs up with a different email addy (and then I don't think it would happen, because Stumbleupon would still be using the old email address). Anyway, at least it wasn't a bot issue, and that will be ONE problem solved. I'll let ya know what Drizzle says about the spam issue. Julie --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 13:08:21 -0700 From: DonH Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Onehawk and the videos... To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Message-ID: <480A5135.6090909@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Thanks all admins! This list gets spa*med once in a very blue moon; unlike so many other lists. Notice that when it does happen, it is remarkable! Thanks for all your hard work! Don ------------------------------ -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html End of Rockhounds Digest, Vol 47, Issue 17 ****************************************** From tjokela at execulink.com Sun Apr 20 07:20:09 2008 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Sun Apr 20 07:21:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> Living fifteen minutes away from a superb fossil locality, I've accumulated a modest collection and have begun looking into how to properly prep them. Micro air abrasive tools look fabulous, and their versatility is intriguing, but the $2,000 bare minimum price tag kind of puzzles me. All this thing does, as far as I can see, is add powdered abrasives to the air stream. Why the huge price tag? Are there some expensive components in there, or some advanced technical wizardry? Do you really need to budget three grand minimum for a complete air abrasive system? What are the options if one wants to get into air abrasive units without spending a small fortune? Are there cheap units that work as well as the Swam Blaster and the Comco units? Any DIY possibilities here, or is the system too complex? Are museums using these multi-thou units? Any info would be most appreciated! Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com Business: http://www.element51.com Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com From OnyxCollector at aol.com Sun Apr 20 09:19:17 2008 From: OnyxCollector at aol.com (OnyxCollector@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 20 09:19:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - Harbor Freight Message-ID: Harbor Freight has a 40 pound pressurized abrasive blaster with 3.2 mm ceramic nozzle for $99.99. A bench top cabinet with double door is another $90. If 3.2mm is still too big for your use, you should be able to find an even smaller nozzle. **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at mlce.net Sun Apr 20 11:29:28 2008 From: john at mlce.net (John Dach) Date: Sun Apr 20 11:29:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? In-Reply-To: <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <01AB13A5-3F64-4EF9-9380-93D2EC9587CC@mlce.net> Check out the mini air blaster found in well stocked art supply outlets. Did a quick Google for micro sandblast units and got this http://www.profitablehobbies.com/ParaBlaster.html right off!! John Dach On Apr 20, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > Living fifteen minutes away from a superb fossil locality, I've > accumulated a modest collection and have begun looking into how to > properly prep them. > > Micro air abrasive tools look fabulous, and their versatility is > intriguing, but the $2,000 bare minimum price tag kind of puzzles > me. All this thing does, as far as I can see, is add powdered > abrasives to the air stream. Why the huge price tag? Are there some > expensive components in there, or some advanced technical wizardry? > Do you really need to budget three grand minimum for a complete air > abrasive system? > > What are the options if one wants to get into air abrasive units > without spending a small fortune? Are there cheap units that work > as well as the Swam Blaster and the Comco units? Any DIY > possibilities here, or is the system too complex? Are museums using > these multi-thou units? > > Any info would be most appreciated! > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Business: http://www.element51.com > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sun Apr 20 11:51:11 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Apr 20 11:53:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock & Roll (was) Rockhounds Digest, Vol 47, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <002501c8a2d6$f25fba00$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> References: <200804200102.m3K11oGm007651@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <002501c8a2d6$f25fba00$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> Message-ID: <480B909F.6070201@hawaiiantel.net> Rock, I guess I'm guilty of going along with the "they say" syndrome. I'm sure I've read it several times somewhere, but don't remember the sources. I apologize for stating as fact what is actually an imprecise memory. Aloha, Kitty Rock Currier wrote: > Kitty, > I have never heard or read that scientiests scientists insist that > animals cannot possibly be more sensitive to an impending earthquake > than the delicate instruments designed to detect quakes. What > scientiest are you talking about and what did they say? > Rock > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:02 PM From kahako at hawaiiantel.net Sun Apr 20 11:58:29 2008 From: kahako at hawaiiantel.net (Kitty & Bill Heacox) Date: Sun Apr 20 11:58:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] ADMIN Digest rules (was) Rockhounds Digest, Vol 47, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <002501c8a2d6$f25fba00$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> References: <200804200102.m3K11oGm007651@bubbleator.drizzle.com> <002501c8a2d6$f25fba00$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> Message-ID: <480B9255.5060009@hawaiiantel.net> A reminder to Rock and others on the Digest: Please change the topic in the Subject line to fit the message you are responding to. Also please trim off all the material at the bottom of your message so you aren't sending the whole Digest out to the List. Aloha, Kitty (Admin Team) Rock Currier wrote: > Kitty, > I have never heard or read that scientiests scientists insist that > animals cannot possibly be more sensitive to an impending earthquake > than the delicate instruments designed to detect quakes. What > scientiest are you talking about and what did they say? > Rock > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:02 PM > Subject: Rockhounds Digest, Vol 47, Issue 17 From nospam at orerockon.com Sun Apr 20 12:16:46 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Apr 20 12:24:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? In-Reply-To: <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080420120603.03566f10@orerockon.com> At 07:20 AM 4/20/2008, you wrote: Living fifteen minutes away from a superb fossil locality, I've accumulated a modest collection and have begun looking into how to properly prep them. Micro air abrasive tools look fabulous, and their versatility is intriguing, but the $2,000 bare minimum price tag kind of puzzles me. All this thing does, as far as I can see, is add powdered abrasives to the air stream. Why the huge price tag? Are there some expensive components in there, or some advanced technical wizardry? Do you really need to budget three grand minimum for a complete air abrasive system? I have 2 used machines, a SS White and a COMCO. Both needed some TLC but both cost me under $500 used (online). Shop around, Google is your friend. Cheap units do not have the power or versatility for fossil prep. They tend to wear out very fast and do little to nothing to hard fossil matrix (YGWYPF is an axiom to live by, IMO). Most of the can't even throw powdered dolomite which should be your #1 choice of media for anything harder than sandstone. They are expensive because it is extremely difficult to control the delivery of abrasive and air when you are working at such a fine scale (I have and use a 1 mm nozzle at 90 PSI). {quot}Hobby{quot} (and homemade) abrasive units cannot do so and wind up spitting gobs of media out that have little to no abrasive power, or just getting gummed up every 5 seconds. All they can do is coat your specimen white. What are the options if one wants to get into air abrasive units without spending a small fortune? Are there cheap units that work as well as the Swam Blaster and the Comco units? Any DIY possibilities here, or is the system too complex? Are museums using these multi-thou units? As above, no there are no cheap alternatives. There is one homemade model for sale online that I have heard both good and bad things about. It isn't any less than a used Comco Model 100 anyway, isn't adjustable, and doesn't appear to be nearly as durable. Most museums use the SS White models, as they are the most flexible in type of media, air/media mix, and delivery pressure. Some use the newer COMCO ($$$) models. I find that I use the COMCO-100 99% of the time because it is extremely simple to use and works very well. Don't forget to get a full assortment of nozzles (they are cheap anyway) because you will need to match the nozzle to the job. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From nospam at orerockon.com Sun Apr 20 12:17:21 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Apr 20 12:24:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - Harbor Freight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080420121657.0339fe18@orerockon.com> Save your money, it will NOT work on fossil matrix. At 09:19 AM 4/20/2008, you wrote: Harbor Freight has a 40 pound pressurized abrasive blaster with 3.2 mm ceramic nozzle for $99.99. A bench top cabinet with double door is another $90. If 3.2mm is still too big for your use, you should be able to find an even smaller nozzle. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From nospam at orerockon.com Sun Apr 20 12:18:34 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Apr 20 12:26:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? In-Reply-To: <01AB13A5-3F64-4EF9-9380-93D2EC9587CC@mlce.net> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> <01AB13A5-3F64-4EF9-9380-93D2EC9587CC@mlce.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080420121732.0354e358@orerockon.com> Ditto. That's why they are carried by art media stores. They can scratch paint. That's about it. At 11:29 AM 4/20/2008, you wrote: >Check out the mini air blaster found in well stocked art supply >outlets. Did a quick Google for micro sandblast units and got this >http://www.profitablehobbies.com/ParaBlaster.html right off!! > >John Dach Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From john at pandemoniumgraphics.com Sun Apr 20 12:36:47 2008 From: john at pandemoniumgraphics.com (John Siebel) Date: Sun Apr 20 12:38:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior><003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP><009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior><01AB13A5-3F64-4EF9-9380-93D2EC9587CC@mlce.net> <7.0.0.16.2.20080420121732.0354e358@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <004301c8a31d$e4cb31c0$0200a8c0@Notebook> I agree with Tim. Bought one of these "air erasers" for use in airbrush illustration. Used it only once because it tore up the illustration board and clogged up in seconds. I doubt it would touch a hard matrix. John > Ditto. That's why they are carried by art media stores. They can scratch > paint. That's about it. > > At 11:29 AM 4/20/2008, you wrote: >>Check out the mini air blaster found in well stocked art supply >>outlets. Did a quick Google for micro sandblast units and got this >>http://www.profitablehobbies.com/ParaBlaster.html right off!! >> >>John Dach From Justin at the-vug.com Sun Apr 20 12:40:22 2008 From: Justin at the-vug.com (Justin@the-vug.com) Date: Sun Apr 20 12:41:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior><003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <356301c8a31e$5fa515a0$6d01a8c0@windows2df367b> Hi Tim, Oh, the trade secrets... Crystal Mark in Glendale California makes a nice air abrasive unit that is, get this, under $600.00. Throw in a sand blasting cabinet, an air compressor, shop vac, and a car filter and for under $1,000 all together, you have a nice microabrasive unit. The only problem with the el' cheapo unit is that glass beads get kind of clumpy real quick. I miss the self agitating units, but for Dolomite, Sodium Bicarbonate and the like, this model works great. I doubt you would be using glass beads on fossils anyway, I find Dolomite works wonders on most everything. Oh, and tell them The-Vug.com sent you. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Jokela Jr." To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 7:20 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? > Living fifteen minutes away from a superb fossil locality, I've > accumulated a modest collection and have begun looking into how to > properly prep them. > > Micro air abrasive tools look fabulous, and their versatility is > intriguing, but the $2,000 bare minimum price tag kind of puzzles me. All > this thing does, as far as I can see, is add powdered abrasives to the air > stream. Why the huge price tag? Are there some expensive components in > there, or some advanced technical wizardry? Do you really need to budget > three grand minimum for a complete air abrasive system? > > What are the options if one wants to get into air abrasive units without > spending a small fortune? Are there cheap units that work as well as the > Swam Blaster and the Comco units? Any DIY possibilities here, or is the > system too complex? Are museums using these multi-thou units? > > Any info would be most appreciated! > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Business: http://www.element51.com > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Pmodreski at aol.com Sun Apr 20 14:47:22 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Sun Apr 20 14:48:08 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock & Roll (was) Rockhounds Digest, Vol 47, Issue 17 Message-ID: My two cents on this, I think that just about all the evidence about animals pre-sensing earthquakes is anecdotal and, as yet, unproven. I think that's the scientific view of this; no one has proved this really happens, but no one has proved that it doesn't happen either. One factor is that after the fact, people pay attention to slightly unusual things that animals may have been doing before and earthquake takes place, but if they on occasion do the same things when there isn't any earthquake, no one gives it a second thought. And, animals being what they are, they are usually doing some thing or other that in restrospect may be remembered as "unusual". Here's what the USGS earthquake web pages "FAQs" have to say about--don't make a judgement one way or the other, _http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learning/faq.php?categoryID=6_ (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learning/faq.php?categoryID=6) Q: Can animals predict earthquakes? A: The earliest reference we have to unusual animal behavior prior to a significant earthquake is from Greece in 373 BC. Rats, weasels, snakes, and centipedes reportedly left their homes and headed for safety several days before a destructive earthquake. Anecdotal evidence abounds of animals, fish, birds, reptiles, and insects exhibiting strange behavior anywhere from weeks to seconds before an earthquake. However, consistent and reliable behavior prior to seismic events, and a mechanism explaining how it could work, still eludes us. Most, but not all, scientists pursuing this mystery are in China or Japan. For further information see: _Animals & Earthquake Prediction_ (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learning/topics/animal_eqs.php) Cheers, Pete (the link above won't be "hot", but go to the USGS faq page to follow it.) In a message dated 4/20/2008 12:53:24 PM Mountain Daylight Time, kahako@hawaiiantel.net writes: Rock, I guess I'm guilty of going along with the "they say" syndrome. I'm sure I've read it several times somewhere, but don't remember the sources. I apologize for stating as fact what is actually an imprecise memory. Aloha, Kitty Rock Currier wrote: > Kitty, > I have never heard or read that scientiests scientists insist that > animals cannot possibly be more sensitive to an impending earthquake > than the delicate instruments designed to detect quakes. What > scientiest are you talking about and what did they say? > Rock **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Sun Apr 20 14:57:46 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Sun Apr 20 14:57:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock & Roll (was) Rockhounds Digest, Vol 47, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <480B909F.6070201@hawaiiantel.net> References: <200804200102.m3K11oGm007651@bubbleator.drizzle.com><002501c8a2d6$f25fba00$6401a8c0@NICHOLAS6> <480B909F.6070201@hawaiiantel.net> Message-ID: <000e01c8a331$919c1730$6501a8c0@AxelHP> in a very low whispering voice: Hey, pst, Kitty.... You had surgery too, right? Blame it on the anesthetic! Works for me ;-)))) Cheers Axel (from tremor-free Belgium) > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Kitty & > Bill Heacox > Verzonden: zondag 20 april 2008 19:51 > Aan: Rock Currier; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for > rock and gem collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Rock & Roll (was) Rockhounds Digest, > Vol 47, Issue 17 > > Rock, > > I guess I'm guilty of going along with the "they say" > syndrome. I'm sure I've read it several times somewhere, but > don't remember the sources. I apologize for stating as fact > what is actually an imprecise memory. > > Aloha, Kitty > > Rock Currier wrote: > > Kitty, > > I have never heard or read that scientiests scientists insist that > > animals cannot possibly be more sensitive to an impending > earthquake > > than the delicate instruments designed to detect quakes. What > > scientiest are you talking about and what did they say? > > Rock > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > > > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:02 PM > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From john at mlce.net Sun Apr 20 15:13:00 2008 From: john at mlce.net (John Dach) Date: Sun Apr 20 15:11:36 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20080420121732.0354e358@orerockon.com> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> <01AB13A5-3F64-4EF9-9380-93D2EC9587CC@mlce.net> <7.0.0.16.2.20080420121732.0354e358@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <4726B3D0-CCD0-45B1-9A3A-61E127187FED@mlce.net> Actually They are used to do fine blasting of glass and the like. A lot depends on what one is using for the blasting grit. John Dach On Apr 20, 2008, at 12:18 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Ditto. That's why they are carried by art media stores. They can > scratch paint. That's about it. > > At 11:29 AM 4/20/2008, you wrote: >> Check out the mini air blaster found in well stocked art supply >> outlets. Did a quick Google for micro sandblast units and got this >> http://www.profitablehobbies.com/ParaBlaster.html right off!! >> >> John Dach > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Apr 20 17:23:39 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 20 17:10:37 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> Message-ID: <480BDB6E.52DB@Tomaszewski.net> Tim, Micro-Mark has a mini sandblast gun for $48 that runs off a can of compressed air or your own compressor at 30 lb. It is designed for working on models and has a very fine stream using 220 grit. Sears has a 50 lb sandblaster kit with 1/4 inch nozzle that lists for $59.99. Your local big box hardware store probably has professional sized sandblasters for around $250. Kreigh P.S., my only connection to any of these businesses is as a customer. I have used a borrowed Sears unit for cleaning paint off metal and had no problems with it. Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: > > Living fifteen minutes away from a superb fossil locality, I've accumulated > a modest collection and have begun looking into how to properly prep them. > > Micro air abrasive tools look fabulous, and their versatility is intriguing, > but the $2,000 bare minimum price tag kind of puzzles me. All this thing > does, as far as I can see, is add powdered abrasives to the air stream. Why > the huge price tag? Are there some expensive components in there, or some > advanced technical wizardry? Do you really need to budget three grand > minimum for a complete air abrasive system? > > What are the options if one wants to get into air abrasive units without > spending a small fortune? Are there cheap units that work as well as the > Swam Blaster and the Comco units? Any DIY possibilities here, or is the > system too complex? Are museums using these multi-thou units? > > Any info would be most appreciated! > > Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com > Business: http://www.element51.com > Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From kadok at infowest.com Sun Apr 20 17:19:00 2008 From: kadok at infowest.com (Margaret Malm) Date: Sun Apr 20 17:12:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! In-Reply-To: <003501c8a253$8a5c28e0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> References: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000b01c8a13f$c37addc0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><48094EFF.5A38@Tomaszewski.net><4809581B.9050804@hawaiiantel.net> <003501c8a253$8a5c28e0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <003d01c8a345$4c2e9010$0200a8c0@kadok> But, do we know that high-pitched sounds are not also produced? Just because we don't hear them doesn't mean they're not there --?? Margaret > I've read that scientists insist that animals cannot possibly > be more sensitive to an impending earthquake than the > delicate instruments designed to detect quakes. But there > continue to be reports of that happening. There are no such > reports here in Hawaii, perhaps because our quakes are mostly > caused by lava readjustment rather than large plate movement. > I wonder if that movement might cause an extremely > high-pitched sound that animals can hear rather than feel. > However, I'm not a scientist! Hi Kitty, If I'm not mistaking, it's just opposite: an extremely low-pitched sound or infra-sound. I just saw a documentary on National Geographic High Definition Channel that demonstrated that quite some animals can feel the infra-sound and react to it. It's just a few hertz, apparently. Cheers from Belgium Axel -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Sun Apr 20 17:01:08 2008 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (gbrown@catspaw-minerals.com) Date: Sun Apr 20 17:26:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? In-Reply-To: <4726B3D0-CCD0-45B1-9A3A-61E127187FED@mlce.net> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> <01AB13A5-3F64-4EF9-9380-93D2EC9587CC@mlce.net> <7.0.0.16.2.20080420121732.0354e358@orerockon.com> <4726B3D0-CCD0-45B1-9A3A-61E127187FED@mlce.net> Message-ID: <61688.72.77.217.178.1208736068.squirrel@smtp.sunserver.com> Actually, the big cabinet units are what us glass guys use. The Big Dogs actually make walk-in blasting cabinets. Those little units are next to worthless to do blasting. Check out Butch Young's site, http://www.thesandwitch.com/ , for more information that you'd ever like to find out about sand blasting. Gary Brown http://www.catspaw-minerals.com http://www.fusedlight.com (Glass!) > Actually They are used to do fine blasting of glass and the like. A > lot depends on what one is using for the blasting grit.... From gene at fossilnut.com Sun Apr 20 19:33:13 2008 From: gene at fossilnut.com (gene@fossilnut.com) Date: Sun Apr 20 19:33:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP><009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> <480BDB6E.52DB@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <026801c8a358$0d2d6ef0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Typical air abrasive units have nozzle diameters much smaller than any of the cheaper units that have been mentioned. I have 2 old SS White units. The first one came with a blast cabinet and a Torrit dust collector for under $1000, The second cost me about $600. I bought 2 more and resold these. Both needed a little work and cost me in the range of $250. The micro blasters deliver controlled grit and controlled pressure through nozzles that range from 17 thousandths of an inch up to a whopping 60 thousandths. The fine nozzle is what is needed for delicate fossil work. In additon I can control pressures down to about 15 PSI which is sometimes needed for fine and delicate work. If you are trying to clean corrosion off a steel plate, by all means use one of the cheaper sandblasters. If you are trying to prep fossils or delicate minerals, you need the better units. If you live ina humid climate you will also need an air dryer. I made mine out of a copper coil in an ice bucket, with a separator downstream. Works fine. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kreigh Tomaszewski" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? > Tim, > > Micro-Mark has a mini sandblast gun for $48 that runs off a can of > compressed air or your own compressor at 30 lb. It is designed for > working on models and has a very fine stream using 220 grit. > > Sears has a 50 lb sandblaster kit with 1/4 inch nozzle that lists for > $59.99. > > Your local big box hardware store probably has professional sized > sandblasters for around $250. > > Kreigh > > P.S., my only connection to any of these businesses is as a customer. I > have used a borrowed Sears unit for cleaning paint off metal and had no > problems with it. > > > > > Tim Jokela Jr. wrote: >> >> Living fifteen minutes away from a superb fossil locality, I've >> accumulated >> a modest collection and have begun looking into how to properly prep >> them. >> >> Micro air abrasive tools look fabulous, and their versatility is >> intriguing, >> but the $2,000 bare minimum price tag kind of puzzles me. All this thing >> does, as far as I can see, is add powdered abrasives to the air stream. >> Why >> the huge price tag? Are there some expensive components in there, or some >> advanced technical wizardry? Do you really need to budget three grand >> minimum for a complete air abrasive system? >> >> What are the options if one wants to get into air abrasive units without >> spending a small fortune? Are there cheap units that work as well as the >> Swam Blaster and the Comco units? Any DIY possibilities here, or is the >> system too complex? Are museums using these multi-thou units? >> >> Any info would be most appreciated! >> >> Tim Jokela Jr., tjokela@execulink.com >> Business: http://www.element51.com >> Pleasure: http://www.ontariominerals.com >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >> http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Sun Apr 20 20:50:30 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Sun Apr 20 20:36:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! References: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000b01c8a13f$c37addc0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><48094EFF.5A38@Tomaszewski.net><4809581B.9050804@hawaiiantel.net> <003501c8a253$8a5c28e0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> <003d01c8a345$4c2e9010$0200a8c0@kadok> Message-ID: <480C0BCC.AA6@Tomaszewski.net> Dr. Friedemann Freund at NASA recently summarized the research on animal precursors as... I have shared my interest in pre-earthquake animal behavior. My intuition (and papers that I have read over the years) tell me that the often reported unusual animal behavior is not triggered by EM emissions and magnetic field variations that would come with those EM emissions. Nor are they likely to be triggered by high electric fields. Instead we have good reasons to believe that the generation of positive ions at the Earth's surface is the cause why animals react in unusual ways. We are close to understanding the cause of positive ions produced before earthquakes so that seismic events can be predicted; the ion effect can be reproduced in the lab. Kreigh Margaret Malm wrote: > > But, do we know that high-pitched sounds are not also produced? Just because > we don't hear them doesn't mean they're not there --?? > > Margaret > > > I've read that scientists insist that animals cannot possibly > > be more sensitive to an impending earthquake than the > > delicate instruments designed to detect quakes. But there > > continue to be reports of that happening. There are no such > > reports here in Hawaii, perhaps because our quakes are mostly > > caused by lava readjustment rather than large plate movement. > > I wonder if that movement might cause an extremely > > high-pitched sound that animals can hear rather than feel. > > However, I'm not a scientist! > > Hi Kitty, > > If I'm not mistaking, it's just opposite: an extremely low-pitched sound or > infra-sound. > I just saw a documentary on National Geographic High Definition Channel that > demonstrated that quite some animals can feel the infra-sound and react to > it. It's just a few hertz, apparently. > > Cheers from Belgium > > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From dnorris at frii.com Sun Apr 20 22:35:52 2008 From: dnorris at frii.com (Don Norris) Date: Sun Apr 20 21:35:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! In-Reply-To: <480C0BCC.AA6@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <20080421043549.E98E1678A8@mail.frii.com> Hi all, I was in St Charles, Mo that night. I had just taught a Silversmithing Class there the day before and was wore out and sleeping soundly. All of sudden I felt a strange feeling especially up my back, that seemed to be a very hot wave. It was hot enough and strange enough that I turn over on my back and threw off my sheet and cover. I thought I had a muscle spam in my back or something, and then about a full 2 seconds later the bead and room began to shake. I had never really been through an earthquake before at least that I remember, but I immediately knew that it was an earthquake. I thought room and bed shook for about 15 to 20 seconds which was born out on the news the next day. I just laid there and enjoyed the experience and was trying to remember, study if you will the sensations of the motions. It was very interesting for sure. The seamed to move side to side about 1/2 inch or at least I felt that I was, but it was not a constant moving, it was more like waves of energy, varying in intensity during the 20 seconds. When it was over, I just laid there hoping it there was a little more. I felt that it was over and went back to sleep, after remembering a educational program warning of the possibility the danger of a large earth quake in this area. I still went back to sleep ok. Anyway, I did feel something long before the quake was felt, well 2 seconds or so. I have a couple of questions. What do you think the water in the Mississippi did during those 20 seconds? What do you feel if anything if you are driving? Don Norris Learnsilver.com From nospam at orerockon.com Sun Apr 20 21:28:55 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Apr 20 21:36:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? In-Reply-To: <356301c8a31e$5fa515a0$6d01a8c0@windows2df367b> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> <356301c8a31e$5fa515a0$6d01a8c0@windows2df367b> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080420212607.03578040@orerockon.com> Like other, similar units, I have heard good and bad things about the CrystalMark. I doubt it would last hundreds of hours like the more expensive machines without a major overhaul. I can't wrap my head around a unit that doesn't use some kind of agitation (either mechanical or ultrasonic) to keep the media flow rock solid consistent. Just my $0.02... At 12:40 PM 4/20/2008, you wrote: >Hi Tim, > >Oh, the trade secrets... >Crystal Mark in Glendale California makes a nice air abrasive unit >that is, get this, under $600.00. Throw in a sand blasting cabinet, >an air compressor, shop vac, and a car filter and for under $1,000 >all together, you have a nice microabrasive unit. The only problem >with the el' cheapo unit is that glass beads get kind of clumpy real >quick. I miss the self agitating units, but for Dolomite, Sodium >Bicarbonate and the like, this model works great. I doubt you would >be using glass beads on fossils anyway, I find Dolomite works >wonders on most everything. > >Oh, and tell them The-Vug.com sent you. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From nospam at orerockon.com Sun Apr 20 21:42:15 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Sun Apr 20 21:49:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? In-Reply-To: <026801c8a358$0d2d6ef0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> <480BDB6E.52DB@Tomaszewski.net> <026801c8a358$0d2d6ef0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080420213221.0357b1e0@orerockon.com> Doh! I meant 0.1 mm, not 1 mm nozzle. I was told by COMCO that under no circumstances should I run their microblasters without an air dryer. My air dryers cost $20 each and works like a charm. Google "desiccant snake air dryer". Cheap, disposable, and last a long, long time. Don't be fooled by the $500 dryers; you don't need them unless you live in the jungle :) I have been using a Delta dual bag dust collector for about 6 months now and I can report that it works splendidly with an SS White dust cabinet. More suction than I need and it's in its own little house outside so it can spew all the powder it wants through the cheap bags. I air it out every once in a while since I am paranoid that the motor could die if it sucks in too much dolomite. There are 60 (I think) micron mesh bags available for them but you have to shop around for them. Since I use 40 micron media they wouldn't do me much good. At 07:33 PM 4/20/2008, you wrote: >Typical air abrasive units have nozzle diameters much smaller than >any of the cheaper units that have been mentioned. I have 2 old SS >White units. The first one came with a blast cabinet and a Torrit >dust collector for under $1000, The second cost me about $600. I >bought 2 more and resold these. Both needed a little work and cost >me in the range of $250. > >The micro blasters deliver controlled grit and controlled pressure >through nozzles that range from 17 thousandths of an inch up to a >whopping 60 thousandths. The fine nozzle is what is needed for >delicate fossil work. In additon I can control pressures down to >about 15 PSI which is sometimes needed for fine and delicate work. >If you are trying to clean corrosion off a steel plate, by all means >use one of the cheaper sandblasters. If you are trying to prep >fossils or delicate minerals, you need the better units. If you live >ina humid climate you will also need an air dryer. I made mine out >of a copper coil in an ice bucket, with a separator downstream. Works fine. >Gene Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Mon Apr 21 03:13:07 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Mon Apr 21 03:13:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! In-Reply-To: <480C0BCC.AA6@Tomaszewski.net> References: <619195.39528.qm@web56310.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <000b01c8a13f$c37addc0$6401a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><48094EFF.5A38@Tomaszewski.net><4809581B.9050804@hawaiiantel.net> <003501c8a253$8a5c28e0$6501a8c0@AxelHP><003d01c8a345$4c2e9010$0200a8c0@kadok> <480C0BCC.AA6@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <000f01c8a398$4b70a890$6501a8c0@AxelHP> Which is a result of clouds of P-holes racing towards the surface? Personally I believe that both the EM and the infrasound emanations are a factor in quake-related animal behavior. Elephants can communicate over more than 10 miles by tapping the ground (infrasound). People often get uneasy and agitated when the wind shifts to the East (in Europe). For Europeans that means dry continental wind which carries much positive ions (I was told ;-). My clavicles and lower back (both from surgery) and every bone I ever broke hurt when there's a sudden drop in atmospheric pressure. It can't be explained by medical science and is often ridiculed but I can feel a storm depression coming 48 hrs in advance. Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Kreigh > Tomaszewski > Verzonden: maandag 21 april 2008 4:51 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! > > Dr. Friedemann Freund at NASA recently summarized the > research on animal precursors as... > > I have shared my interest in pre-earthquake animal behavior. My > intuition (and papers that I have read over the years) > tell me that > the often reported unusual animal behavior is not > triggered by EM > emissions and magnetic field variations that would come > with those > EM emissions. Nor are they likely to be triggered by > high electric > fields. Instead we have good reasons to believe that > the generation > of positive ions at the Earth's surface is the cause > why animals > react in unusual ways. > > We are close to understanding the cause of positive ions > produced before earthquakes so that seismic events can be > predicted; the ion effect can be reproduced in the lab. > > Kreigh > > > > > Margaret Malm wrote: > > > > But, do we know that high-pitched sounds are not also > produced? Just > > because we don't hear them doesn't mean they're not there --?? > > > > Margaret > > > > > I've read that scientists insist that animals cannot possibly be > > > more sensitive to an impending earthquake than the delicate > > > instruments designed to detect quakes. But there continue to be > > > reports of that happening. There are no such reports here in > > > Hawaii, perhaps because our quakes are mostly caused by lava > > > readjustment rather than large plate movement. > > > I wonder if that movement might cause an extremely high-pitched > > > sound that animals can hear rather than feel. > > > However, I'm not a scientist! > > > > Hi Kitty, > > > > If I'm not mistaking, it's just opposite: an extremely low-pitched > > sound or infra-sound. > > I just saw a documentary on National Geographic High Definition > > Channel that demonstrated that quite some animals can feel the > > infra-sound and react to it. It's just a few hertz, apparently. > > > > Cheers from Belgium > > > > Axel > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From tjokela at execulink.com Mon Apr 21 07:27:10 2008 From: tjokela at execulink.com (Tim Jokela Jr.) Date: Mon Apr 21 07:27:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com><001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior><003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP><009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior><480BDB6E.52DB@Tomaszewski.net><026801c8a358$0d2d6ef0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> <7.0.0.16.2.20080420213221.0357b1e0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <008601c8a3bb$c949d4d0$6500a8c0@Junior> Thanks a ton, Tim, I really appreciate the info. Very glad to know that I don't have to spend a fortune on the air drying system. I have a couple of dust collectors in my woodshop right now, just collecting dust, and can build a work station in an hour or two, so two grand for a SwamBlaster and compressor seems pretty doable. Cheers, T ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? >>Typical air abrasive units have nozzle diameters much smaller than any of >>the cheaper units that have been mentioned. I have 2 old SS White units. >>The first one came with a blast cabinet and a Torrit dust collector for >>under $1000, The second cost me about $600. I bought 2 more and resold >>these. Both needed a little work and cost me in the range of $250. >> >>The micro blasters deliver controlled grit and controlled pressure through >>nozzles that range from 17 thousandths of an inch up to a whopping 60 >>thousandths. The fine nozzle is what is needed for delicate fossil work. >>In additon I can control pressures down to about 15 PSI which is sometimes >>needed for fine and delicate work. If you are trying to clean corrosion >>off a steel plate, by all means use one of the cheaper sandblasters. If >>you are trying to prep fossils or delicate minerals, you need the better >>units. If you live ina humid climate you will also need an air dryer. I >>made mine out of a copper coil in an ice bucket, with a separator >>downstream. Works fine. >>Gene > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From wdeanwelder at yahoo.com Mon Apr 21 10:48:22 2008 From: wdeanwelder at yahoo.com (Dean Welder) Date: Mon Apr 21 10:48:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes, plus In-Reply-To: <6F4CD53B-103B-4F16-92E6-B64629CB2D49@cox.net> Message-ID: <961719.73794.qm@web51106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In 1984 (or maybe it was 1983) I was in a classroom during a sizeable earthquake near Morgan Hill, CA. I was seated near one corner, as the quake hit I turned and looked across the room, diagonally and could see a wave rolling across the room. The far corner from me was visibly moving up and down - quite a spooky experience. --- On Sat, 4/19/08, Teresa Masters wrote: > From: Teresa Masters > Subject: [Rockhounds] Earthquakes, plus > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Date: Saturday, April 19, 2008, 7:41 PM > I was away from California, skiing in Utah, when we had a > sizable > earthquake. When I returned home, I found many items strewn > about. My > greatest concern had been for Crystal Liquor Stems, which > had come > over on the boat with my mother in 1926. Some chipped, but > all survived. > > I spoke with neighbors, and one told me that he was > outside, bending > down to pick up his newspaper, when he saw the street > itself coming > toward him in waves, and continuing past. There was no > evidence of > displacement or cracking of the street or pavement, but > that ties in > with Kitty's comments on waves in the Forest. Amazing. > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From miolson47 at hotmail.com Mon Apr 21 11:22:45 2008 From: miolson47 at hotmail.com (marilyn olson) Date: Mon Apr 21 11:22:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] herkimer diamond info Message-ID: Does anyone have any up to date information on the best collecting site for Herkimer diamonds? thanks Marilyn _________________________________________________________________ Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From slc.stainglass at earthlink.net Mon Apr 21 23:55:03 2008 From: slc.stainglass at earthlink.net (sandy) Date: Mon Apr 21 11:53:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to the page Message-ID: this is rockdog, I'm like a dog when they take after a stick or a ball, they can't let it go. same with me i will pick up any pretty rock and bring it miles back home on road trips!! i have to say nooooo more!! or put down a less pretty rock for the better one. but knowing what is out there, to what i have just makes my heart thump and i can not wait till i get some real real good ones. see ya rock dog lady From rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov Mon Apr 21 11:57:50 2008 From: rick.trapp at azgs.az.gov (Rick Trapp) Date: Mon Apr 21 12:00:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to the page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <480CE3AE.5000203@azgs.az.gov> I should introduce you to my wife... I keep telling her, "no, pick it up on the way DOWN the hill", but she just can't resist.... sandy wrote: > this is rockdog, I'm like a dog when they take after a stick or a ball, > they can't let it go. same with me i will pick up any pretty rock and bring > it miles back home on road trips!! i have to say nooooo more!! or put down a > less pretty rock for the better one. > but knowing what is out there, to what i have just makes my heart thump and > i can not wait till i get some real real good ones. > see ya > rock dog lady > > -- Rick Trapp Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov From pmodreski at aol.com Mon Apr 21 12:06:12 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 21 12:06:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to the page In-Reply-To: <480CE3AE.5000203@azgs.az.gov> References: <480CE3AE.5000203@azgs.az.gov> Message-ID: <8CA71F9E66DA0DB-E98-24E9@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> ... and then there's all the times I've picked something up on the way UP, then sat it (or a sack of it) down somewhere along the way, "I'll just leave this here now and pick it up again on the way back", and then had to search all around the bushes when I finally am on my way back, "Now where the heck did I put that, it was just behind a big old juniper right next to?a big sagebrush?by the large granite boulder..." :? ) Pete -----Original Message----- From: Rick Trapp To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:57 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] new to the page ? I should introduce you to my wife... I keep telling her, "no, pick it up on the way DOWN the hill", but she just can't resist....? ? ? sandy wrote:? > this is rockdog, I'm like a dog when they take after a stick or a ball,? > they can't let it go. same with me i will pick up any pretty rock and bring? > it miles back home on road trips!! i have to say nooooo more!! or put down a? > less pretty rock for the better one.? > but knowing what is out there, to what i have just makes my heart thump and? > i can not wait till i get some real real good ones.? > see ya? > rock dog lady? >? > ? -- Rick Trapp? Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey? rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov? ? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Mon Apr 21 12:15:25 2008 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Mon Apr 21 12:16:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to the page References: <480CE3AE.5000203@azgs.az.gov> <8CA71F9E66DA0DB-E98-24E9@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <006d01c8a3e4$126c7d70$0300a8c0@warren> And THEN there's the ones that you pick up at the beginning of the trip, lug around all day uphill and downhill, get back to the car to high grade and go "Why did I pick THAT up?" Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] new to the page > ... and then there's all the times I've picked something up on the way UP, > then sat it (or a sack of it) down somewhere along the way, "I'll just > leave this here now and pick it up again on the way back", and then had to > search all around the bushes when I finally am on my way back, "Now where > the heck did I put that, it was just behind a big old juniper right next > to?a big sagebrush?by the large granite boulder..." > > :? ) > > Pete > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Trapp > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > > Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:57 pm > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] new to the page > > > ? > I should introduce you to my wife... I keep telling her, "no, pick it up > on the way DOWN the hill", but she just can't resist....? > ? > ? > sandy wrote:? >> this is rockdog, I'm like a dog when they take after a stick or a ball,? >> they can't let it go. same with me i will pick up any pretty rock and >> bring? >> it miles back home on road trips!! i have to say nooooo more!! or put >> down a? >> less pretty rock for the better one.? >> but knowing what is out there, to what i have just makes my heart thump >> and? >> i can not wait till i get some real real good ones.? >> see ya? >> rock dog lady? >>? >> ? > -- Rick Trapp? > Geologist/IT Manager, Arizona Geological Survey? > rick.trapp@azgs.az.gov? > ? > > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Mon Apr 21 12:28:38 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Mon Apr 21 12:27:32 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to the page In-Reply-To: <8CA71F9E66DA0DB-E98-24E9@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> References: <480CE3AE.5000203@azgs.az.gov> <8CA71F9E66DA0DB-E98-24E9@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <480CEAE6.1060202@verizon.net> pmodreski@aol.com wrote: > ... and then there's all the times I've picked something up on the way UP, then sat it (or a sack of it) down somewhere along the way, "I'll just leave this here now and pick it up again on the way back", and then had to search all around the bushes when I finally am on my way back, "Now where the heck did I put that, it was just behind a big old juniper right next to?a big sagebrush?by the large granite boulder..." I always carry a roll of bright flagging tape to mark things. I also have a long piece of pink flagging tape tied to the lanyard of my GPS since I lost a $350 black Garmin III+ on Mica Mountain. I'm not sure if I've seen "pink flagging tape" on anyone's list of essential field tools, but a roll is small and lightweight and I use it a lot. Don From pmodreski at aol.com Mon Apr 21 13:12:24 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 21 13:12:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to the page In-Reply-To: <480CEAE6.1060202@verizon.net> References: <480CE3AE.5000203@azgs.az.gov> <8CA71F9E66DA0DB-E98-24E9@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> <480CEAE6.1060202@verizon.net> Message-ID: <8CA720325977853-E98-2AD8@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> That's a great idea, Don, I even have some---and of course, rarely remember to have it along on a hike... (sometimes, one kind of wants to "stash those special rocks you collected" a little bit out of the way, so someone else doesn't happen along and think, "Gee, look, some rockhound picked up all these neat things & forgot about them and just left them here"... not sure if the tape would be a help, or not...) Pete -----Original Message----- From: DonH To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 1:28 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] new to the page pmodreski@aol.com wrote:? ? > ... and then there's all the times I've picked something up on the way UP, then sat it (or a sack of it) down somewhere along the way, "I'll just leave this here now and pick it up again on the way back", and then had to search all around the bushes when I finally am on my way back, "Now where the heck did I put that, it was just behind a big old juniper right next to?a big sagebrush?by the large granite boulder..."? ? I always carry a roll of bright flagging tape to mark things. I also have a long piece of pink flagging tape tied to the lanyard of my GPS since I lost a $350 black Garmin III+ on Mica Mountain.? ? I'm not sure if I've seen "pink flagging tape" on anyone's list of essential field tools, but a roll is small and lightweight and I use it a lot.? ? Don? ? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From ajs at frii.com Mon Apr 21 14:40:10 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Mon Apr 21 14:41:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] flagging stashes In-Reply-To: <8CA720325977853-E98-2AD8@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20080421214010.449EA1CC42@io.frii.com> > (sometimes, one kind of wants to "stash those special rocks you > collected" a little bit out of the way... That's what GPS is for. Can't help you if you lose your GPS itself. :-) Twice now I've left things by the car out on the Pawnee National Grasslands and found them later. Once, a rock hammer for nearly three weeks; once, a headband (purple) for six days. This is 30-40 miles from home, and I go out there 2-5 times each spring or fall. In both cases I wasn't even sure where I'd lost the item, and I just happened to go back to the same spot on the next trip. Fortunately on the PNG, the grass is tall enough to sort of hide things, and short enough find them later. Anyway, I seldom stash anything for later retrieval. It's just too chancy. I figure, if I want it, I gotta carry it, even if it means staggering back overloaded. Not to say that sometimes I don't leave a rock as, "too big / too far / not great enough" and just HAPPEN to pass by it again on the way back, whereupon I do pick it up. Cheers, Alan Silverstein From sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com Mon Apr 21 15:07:16 2008 From: sunstone3 at hvc.rr.com (Carolyn Reynard) Date: Mon Apr 21 15:02:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] herkimer diamond info References: Message-ID: <002301c8a3fc$0f9d1ce0$2a9ad2cc@feldsparflash> Marilyn, I really don't know which is the best site for collecting Herkimer Diamonds but our group the Mid-Hudson Valley Gem & Mineral Society has had good luck collecting at the Diamond Acres Hasting's Mine in Fonda New York. >From Route 90 New York Thruway exit 28 Fultonville you take Route 5 West to Hickory Hill Rd to Martin Rd. to Stone Arabia Rd. The mine entrance is marked with blue crossed miners tools. There is a fee of $2.00 per person per day. No Facilities. You will need crack and sledge hammers or you can sift through the soil. Carolyn Reynard ----- Original Message ----- From: "marilyn olson" To: Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 2:22 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] herkimer diamond info Does anyone have any up to date information on the best collecting site for Herkimer diamonds? thanks Marilyn _________________________________________________________________ Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Mon Apr 21 16:07:03 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Apr 21 16:14:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] pink is my favorite color In-Reply-To: <480CEAE6.1060202@verizon.net> References: <480CE3AE.5000203@azgs.az.gov> <8CA71F9E66DA0DB-E98-24E9@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> <480CEAE6.1060202@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080421160402.03569d10@orerockon.com> All my tools are painted pink (so you won't pick them up thinking they are yours)! I have a roll of pink flagging in my pack. Combined with the roll of heavy duty aluminum foil I keep in there for wrapping fossils, I think I can signal satellites if I get lost :D $0.25 to whoever gets the ref in the subject line ;) At 12:28 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >I always carry a roll of bright flagging tape to mark things. I >also have a long piece of pink flagging tape tied to the lanyard of >my GPS since I lost a $350 black Garmin III+ on Mica Mountain. > >I'm not sure if I've seen "pink flagging tape" on anyone's list of >essential field tools, but a roll is small and lightweight and I use it a lot. > >Don Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From turnea55 at hotmail.com Mon Apr 21 16:54:44 2008 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Mon Apr 21 16:54:52 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] pink is my favorite color In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20080421160402.03569d10@orerockon.com> Message-ID: Nice reference to an Aerosmith song (9 Lives album I believe) from circa 2000 or so. I'm going on a great collecting trip this weekend and can use the $0.25 for gas..hehe. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA >From: Tim Fisher >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] pink is my favorite color >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:07:03 -0700 > >All my tools are painted pink (so you won't pick them up thinking they are >yours)! I have a roll of pink flagging in my pack. Combined with the roll >of heavy duty aluminum foil I keep in there for wrapping fossils, I think I >can signal satellites if I get lost :D > >$0.25 to whoever gets the ref in the subject line ;) > >At 12:28 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>I always carry a roll of bright flagging tape to mark things. I also have >>a long piece of pink flagging tape tied to the lanyard of my GPS since I >>lost a $350 black Garmin III+ on Mica Mountain. >> >>I'm not sure if I've seen "pink flagging tape" on anyone's list of >>essential field tools, but a roll is small and lightweight and I use it a >>lot. >> >>Don > >Tim Fisher >Ore-ROCK-On! >Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Mon Apr 21 17:10:41 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Mon Apr 21 17:18:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] pink is my favorite color In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.0.16.2.20080421160402.03569d10@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080421171010.0358cce0@orerockon.com> Correct! Now do you have an eyedropper? :D At 04:54 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: Nice reference to an Aerosmith song (9 Lives album I believe) from circa 2000 or so. I'm going on a great collecting trip this weekend and can use the $0.25 for gas..hehe. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From VevaBailey at aol.com Mon Apr 21 17:25:50 2008 From: VevaBailey at aol.com (VevaBailey@aol.com) Date: Mon Apr 21 17:31:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] pink is my favorite color/new too! Message-ID: Andrew, are you going to the Snyder PowWow on the 2nd, 3rd and 4th of May? Incase you don't know about it, it is in Valley Springs, CA. I hope to be going. Don't know for sure yet. I have a lot of friends there from the MotherLode Mineral Club. They alway have several booths there where they sell some of their "finds" and crafts. I am always looking for rocks to cut and polish for my creations. I like the idea of tagging the rocks, because I always forget where I have left them and then never find them later. It may sound crazy, but I started looking in the parking lots at the rocks used for landscaping. I found a green petrified wood about 6 inches x 4 inches. I haven't cut it yet, but I intend too. Also, besure to shake the rocks before cutting them. A friend of a friend cut one that has water inside millions of years old. The end that was cut was polished so a person can look inside and see the fluid move. It was so Awesome!!! He and I were always trying to figure out what kind of mineral was building up inside. Veva Bailey, Dayton, NV ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 4/21/2008 4:55:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, turnea55@hotmail.com writes: Nice reference to an Aerosmith song (9 Lives album I believe) from circa 2000 or so. I'm going on a great collecting trip this weekend and can use the $0.25 for gas..hehe. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA >From: Tim Fisher >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] pink is my favorite color >Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:07:03 -0700 > >All my tools are painted pink (so you won't pick them up thinking they are >yours)! I have a roll of pink flagging in my pack. Combined with the roll >of heavy duty aluminum foil I keep in there for wrapping fossils, I think I >can signal satellites if I get lost :D > >$0.25 to whoever gets the ref in the subject line ;) > >At 12:28 PM 4/21/2008, you wrote: >>I always carry a roll of bright flagging tape to mark things. I also have >>a long piece of pink flagging tape tied to the lanyard of my GPS since I >>lost a $350 black Garmin III+ on Mica Mountain. >> >>I'm not sure if I've seen "pink flagging tape" on anyone's list of >>essential field tools, but a roll is small and lightweight and I use it a >>lot. >> >>Don > >Tim Fisher >Ore-ROCK-On! >Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Mon Apr 21 17:38:12 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Mon Apr 21 17:38:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! References: <20080421043549.E98E1678A8@mail.frii.com> Message-ID: <006801c8a411$258c2540$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> > I have a couple of questions. What do you think the water in the > Mississippi > did during those 20 seconds? It flowed south towards the Gulf of Mexico. > What do you feel if anything if you are driving? A quake would have to be stronger than 5.2 to be felt while driving. The irregularities in the road's surface and the car's suspension system would cancel out anything that isn't very strong. Alan > Don Norris > Learnsilver.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donaldtuttle at hotmail.com Mon Apr 21 19:54:05 2008 From: donaldtuttle at hotmail.com (Donald Tuttle) Date: Mon Apr 21 19:54:08 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] herkimer diamond info In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Marilyn: For all the info you need on Herkimer diamonds go to Mindot at the address below, click on the map, enlarge, and click again on any of the site listings to get specific info for all the commercial sites. Have fun, the little beauties are addicting! http://www.mindat.org/min-1877.html Donald L. Tuttle > From: miolson47@hotmail.com > To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:22:45 -0200 > Subject: [Rockhounds] herkimer diamond info > > > Does anyone have any up to date information on the best collecting site for Herkimer diamonds? thanks Marilyn > _________________________________________________________________ > Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_getintouch_042008 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From jbf at jbfminerals.com Mon Apr 21 20:16:22 2008 From: jbf at jbfminerals.com (Jeffrey Fast) Date: Mon Apr 21 20:17:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] herkimer diamond info In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00cc01c8a427$3e0a2070$ba1e6150$@com> There is an article coming out in Rocks & Minerals Magazine about Herkimer Diamond Mines, Inc. in a week or two. Jeff From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Mon Apr 21 21:51:17 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Mon Apr 21 21:51:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to the page In-Reply-To: <006d01c8a3e4$126c7d70$0300a8c0@warren> References: <480CE3AE.5000203@azgs.az.gov> <8CA71F9E66DA0DB-E98-24E9@FWM-M30.sysops.aol.com> <006d01c8a3e4$126c7d70$0300a8c0@warren> Message-ID: <779134A0-2A04-4D2C-B2E1-147885991359@roadrunner.com> How about loading your backpack, hiking the 14 miles into the interior of the Sawtooth Mountains in Idaho, setting up camp, digging out all your gear, and finding two wrapped specimens from a previous trip in a little-used side pocket. Lanny On Apr 21, 2008, at 12:15 PM, Julie Siebel wrote: > And THEN there's the ones that you pick up at the beginning of the > trip, lug around all day uphill and downhill, get back to the car to > high grade and go "Why did I pick THAT up?" > > Julie > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] new to the page > > >> ... and then there's all the times I've picked something up on the >> way UP, then sat it (or a sack of it) down somewhere along the way, >> "I'll just leave this here now and pick it up again on the way >> back", and then had to search all around the bushes when I finally >> am on my way back, "Now where the heck did I put that, it was just >> behind a big old juniper right next to?a big sagebrush?by the large >> granite boulder..." >> >> :? ) >> >> Pete >> >> From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Apr 22 01:24:11 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Apr 22 01:24:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! In-Reply-To: <006801c8a411$258c2540$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <20080421043549.E98E1678A8@mail.frii.com> <006801c8a411$258c2540$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <001801c8a452$3eb2fc10$6501a8c0@AxelHP> > > I have a couple of questions. What do you think the water in the > > Mississippi did during those 20 seconds? > > It flowed south towards the Gulf of Mexico. > Not always ;-))) On several occasions (during and after 8+ quakes) it seems that the Mississippi has been running in reverse direction, bypassing bends, over hundreds of miles and creating lakes and rapids. Church bells rang from the quake in places as far away as Chicago and Charleston SC. These kind of quakes are massive and of mind-boggling power and occur every few centuries or so. They can reshape the topology of state-size regions in a matter of seconds. People don't like to dwell on the destructive nature of these juggernauts, especially the people that live between Memphis and St. Louis or around Reelfoot lake. Axel From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 05:15:25 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Apr 22 05:18:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! In-Reply-To: <001801c8a452$3eb2fc10$6501a8c0@AxelHP> References: <20080421043549.E98E1678A8@mail.frii.com> <006801c8a411$258c2540$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <001801c8a452$3eb2fc10$6501a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: I have heard that the Mississippi running backward story has been misinterpreted. A new lake was formed and the river water was running into the lake bed to fill it. That made it locally look like it was running backwards. BK On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:24 AM, Axel Emmermann wrote: > > > I have a couple of questions. What do you think the water in the > > > Mississippi did during those 20 seconds? > > > > It flowed south towards the Gulf of Mexico. > > > > Not always ;-))) > On several occasions (during and after 8+ quakes) it seems that the > Mississippi has been running in reverse direction, bypassing bends, over > hundreds of miles and creating lakes and rapids. > Church bells rang from the quake in places as far away as Chicago and > Charleston SC. > These kind of quakes are massive and of mind-boggling power and occur > every > few centuries or so. They can reshape the topology of state-size regions > in > a matter of seconds. People don't like to dwell on the destructive nature > of > these juggernauts, especially the people that live between Memphis and St. > Louis or around Reelfoot lake. > > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Tue Apr 22 06:16:04 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Tue Apr 22 06:16:05 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! In-Reply-To: References: <20080421043549.E98E1678A8@mail.frii.com><006801c8a411$258c2540$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose><001801c8a452$3eb2fc10$6501a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <000001c8a47b$0488b560$6501a8c0@AxelHP> I have no time, right now, to dig into this. My club's mineral fair is coming up this weekend and I have to give a TV-interview on local TV tomorrow... So preparing for both is a handful ;-))) I do recall, no source... Sorry about that, reading that one of the major quakes in the NM-SZ caused an upwards thrust of several hundreds of square miles of terrain of 11 meters. I would estimate that it would do the trick? If it happened in Miami you'd have to drive at least an hour to get to the seashore. NM is a nasty one ;-))) Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens J Bryan Kramer > Verzonden: dinsdag 22 april 2008 13:15 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! > > I have heard that the Mississippi running backward story has > been misinterpreted. A new lake was formed and the river > water was running into the lake bed to fill it. That made it > locally look like it was running backwards. > > BK > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 4:24 AM, Axel Emmermann > > wrote: > > > > > I have a couple of questions. What do you think the > water in the > > > > Mississippi did during those 20 seconds? > > > > > > It flowed south towards the Gulf of Mexico. > > > > > > > Not always ;-))) > > On several occasions (during and after 8+ quakes) it seems that the > > Mississippi has been running in reverse direction, bypassing bends, > > over hundreds of miles and creating lakes and rapids. > > Church bells rang from the quake in places as far away as > Chicago and > > Charleston SC. > > These kind of quakes are massive and of mind-boggling power > and occur > > every few centuries or so. They can reshape the topology of > state-size > > regions in a matter of seconds. People don't like to dwell on the > > destructive nature of these juggernauts, especially the people that > > live between Memphis and St. > > Louis or around Reelfoot lake. > > > > Axel > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > -- > "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an > illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." > Arnold Newman > > > J Bryan Kramer > North Florida, USA > photos at: > http://pbase.com/photoburner > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 09:50:59 2008 From: bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com (Joe Mulvey) Date: Tue Apr 22 09:51:02 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Micromounters of New England Annual Symposium Message-ID: <338304.40259.qm@web51311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> The 2008 Micromounters of New England Annual Mini-Symposi A Symposium Registration Form can be downloaded from the Micromount Gue Microminerals of Italy For its size, Italy has an amazing number Minerals of the Palabora Mine in South Africa This mine, in carbo Thomaston Dam, CT. Mindat lists 48 recognized minerals from the Thoma Our annual symposium is always a great way to see old faces, connect wit http://www.micromountersofnewengland.org Thank you! Joe Mulvey    Nashua, NH USA   --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From ajs at frii.com Tue Apr 22 10:44:41 2008 From: ajs at frii.com (Alan Silverstein) Date: Tue Apr 22 10:46:31 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to the page In-Reply-To: <779134A0-2A04-4D2C-B2E1-147885991359@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <20080422174441.81D521CC42@io.frii.com> > How about loading your backpack, hiking the 14 miles into the interior > of the Sawtooth Mountains in Idaho, setting up camp, digging out all > your gear, and finding two wrapped specimens from a previous trip in a > little-used side pocket. Depends. How big and massive, and how attractive? :-) Alan Silverstein From jr50wv at yahoo.com Tue Apr 22 18:32:53 2008 From: jr50wv at yahoo.com (J. R. Hodel) Date: Tue Apr 22 18:32:59 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] eastern earthquakes Message-ID: <960123.87674.qm@web56308.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi: I've only felt one earthquake personally, back in the late 1970s.  I was crossing the Kanawha River in Charleston WV on my way to my wife's office one evening.  I felt a very definite bump while on the South Side Bridge, and thought a barge tow has hit a bridge pier. This was maybe 10 years after the Silver Bridge collapse which killed several dozen people just before Christmas, so I was a little concerned til I got over dry land.  Later, at the office (The AP) we saw on the wire that it was a 3.something 20 or 30 miles east of  town, in the Eastern Kanawha county coal field. Wonder how you would feel being 2 miles back and 600 feet underground when even a little quake happened? Alan, you can definitely feel a 3.something quake in a Chevy C10! JR in WV Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- text/html (html body -- converted) --- From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Apr 22 19:17:24 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Apr 22 19:17:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! References: <20080421043549.E98E1678A8@mail.frii.com> <006801c8a411$258c2540$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> <001801c8a452$3eb2fc10$6501a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <001c01c8a4e8$2b7f9a90$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> He didn't ask what happened in 1811, he asked what happen last Friday. I can assure you, the Mississippi River did not flow backwards because of an earthquake located in the Wabash Valley Fault Zone, 50 to 100 miles north of the New Madrid Seismic Zone proper. The New Madrid Seismic Zone contains numerous fault blocks (horsts and grabens) with displacements up to 4,000 feet where exposed at the surface. If one of the fault blocks dropped down 25 feet at one end in 1811-2, that would be sufficient to cause the Mississippi to flow backward until it found an alternative channel like an abandoned ox-bow. Reelfoot Lake - the result of the big one - is slowly filling in and will eventually be a wetland rather than a lake. I am attending the GSA North-Central Meeting on Thursday and Friday. They are having a program on the Wabash Valley fault zone. I hope to listen to the session, although I suspect it will be pretty crowded! Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:24 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Rock and Roll!!! > > > I have a couple of questions. What do you think the water in the >> > Mississippi did during those 20 seconds? >> >> It flowed south towards the Gulf of Mexico. >> > > Not always ;-))) > On several occasions (during and after 8+ quakes) it seems that the > Mississippi has been running in reverse direction, bypassing bends, over > hundreds of miles and creating lakes and rapids. > Church bells rang from the quake in places as far away as Chicago and > Charleston SC. > These kind of quakes are massive and of mind-boggling power and occur > every > few centuries or so. They can reshape the topology of state-size regions > in > a matter of seconds. People don't like to dwell on the destructive nature > of > these juggernauts, especially the people that live between Memphis and St. > Louis or around Reelfoot lake. > > Axel > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From deepskyspy at insightbb.com Tue Apr 22 19:23:54 2008 From: deepskyspy at insightbb.com (Alan Goldstein) Date: Tue Apr 22 19:23:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] eastern earthquakes References: <960123.87674.qm@web56308.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003f01c8a4e9$13d858e0$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> I suspect the fact you were on a bridge made the difference. (Being close the the epicenter didn't hurt either.) We had a 4.5 aftershock the other night and it didn't wake me up. I've talked to people who were driving during the 1980 Maysville, KY quake and the 1987 Wabash Valley quake (both around 5.0) and they did not feel it in their vehicle.They were also a hundred or more miles from the epicenter. Alan ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:32 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] eastern earthquakes > Hi: > > I've only felt one earthquake personally, back in the late 1970s.  I > was crossing the Kanawha River in Charleston WV on my way to my wife's > office one evening.  I felt a very definite bump while on the South > Side Bridge, and thought a barge tow has hit a bridge pier. > > This was maybe 10 years after the Silver Bridge collapse which killed > several dozen people just before Christmas, so I was a little concerned > til I got over dry land.  Later, at the office (The AP) we saw on the > wire that it was a 3.something 20 or 30 miles east of  town, in the > Eastern Kanawha county coal field. > > Wonder how you would feel being 2 miles back and 600 feet underground when > even a little quake happened? > > Alan, you can definitely feel a 3.something quake in a Chevy C10! > > JR in WV > > > > > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > text/html (html body -- converted) > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From codeburner at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 19:26:53 2008 From: codeburner at gmail.com (J Bryan Kramer) Date: Tue Apr 22 19:26:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] eastern earthquakes In-Reply-To: <003f01c8a4e9$13d858e0$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> References: <960123.87674.qm@web56308.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <003f01c8a4e9$13d858e0$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: I recall getting a pretty good shake from the only quake I've been in, a low 5 hayward fault quake. But I was asleep on Treasure Island which is nothing more than a blob of mud in the bay. BK On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Alan Goldstein wrote: > I suspect the fact you were on a bridge made the difference. (Being close > the the epicenter didn't hurt either.) We had a 4.5 aftershock the other > night and it didn't wake me up. I've talked to people who were driving > during the 1980 Maysville, KY quake and the 1987 Wabash Valley quake (both > around 5.0) and they did not feel it in their vehicle.They were also a > hundred or more miles from the epicenter. > > Alan > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. Hodel" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:32 PM > Subject: [Rockhounds] eastern earthquakes > > > Hi: > > > > I've only felt one earthquake personally, back in the late 1970s.  > > I was crossing the Kanawha River in Charleston WV on my way to my wife's > > office one evening.  I felt a very definite bump while on the South > > Side Bridge, and thought a barge tow has hit a bridge pier. > > > > This was maybe 10 years after the Silver Bridge collapse which killed > > several dozen people just before Christmas, so I was a little concerned til > > I got over dry land.  Later, at the office (The AP) we saw on the wire > > that it was a 3.something 20 or 30 miles east of  town, in the Eastern > > Kanawha county coal field. > > > > Wonder how you would feel being 2 miles back and 600 feet underground > > when even a little quake happened? > > > > Alan, you can definitely feel a 3.something quake in a Chevy C10! > > > > JR in WV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > > text/html (html body -- converted) > > --- > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- "Photography, as we all know, is not real at all. It is an illusion of reality with which we create our own private world." Arnold Newman J Bryan Kramer North Florida, USA photos at: http://pbase.com/photoburner --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sauktown1 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 23 06:16:15 2008 From: sauktown1 at yahoo.com (Jim Daly) Date: Wed Apr 23 06:16:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] eastern earthquakes In-Reply-To: <003f01c8a4e9$13d858e0$6601a8c0@yourb79wz4rose> Message-ID: <871378.66881.qm@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That 1987 quake was barely noticeable in northern Indiana. I was playing golf at the time, and missed a short putt. THat was the only time I could legitimately use the excuse:"the hole moved"! Jim Alan Goldstein wrote: I suspect the fact you were on a bridge made the difference. (Being close the the epicenter didn't hurt either.) We had a 4.5 aftershock the other night and it didn't wake me up. I've talked to people who were driving during the 1980 Maysville, KY quake and the 1987 Wabash Valley quake (both around 5.0) and they did not feel it in their vehicle.They were also a hundred or more miles from the epicenter. Alan --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lanny.r at roadrunner.com Wed Apr 23 09:32:47 2008 From: lanny.r at roadrunner.com (Lanny R) Date: Wed Apr 23 09:32:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to the page In-Reply-To: <20080422174441.81D521CC42@io.frii.com> References: <20080422174441.81D521CC42@io.frii.com> Message-ID: <8DEEF6D7-BC05-46C4-B4A5-CEF97BD20CA2@roadrunner.com> In this instance, both were about fist size, and neither one was a specimen I would bother to carry up hill very far on purpose! I don't think I would even be happy under the circumstances if they were both fantastic specimens. Gets me thinking, maybe I should go check all the pockets of my backpack for specimens from the last trip... . Lanny On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:44 AM, Alan Silverstein wrote: >> How about loading your backpack, hiking the 14 miles into the >> interior >> of the Sawtooth Mountains in Idaho, setting up camp, digging out all >> your gear, and finding two wrapped specimens from a previous trip >> in a >> little-used side pocket. > > Depends. How big and massive, and how attractive? :-) > > Alan Silverstein > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From pmodreski at aol.com Wed Apr 23 09:56:40 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 23 09:56:54 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] stories about carrying rock samples (was, new to the page) In-Reply-To: <8DEEF6D7-BC05-46C4-B4A5-CEF97BD20CA2@roadrunner.com> References: <20080422174441.81D521CC42@io.frii.com> <8DEEF6D7-BC05-46C4-B4A5-CEF97BD20CA2@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <8CA737A228F49C6-494-213A@MBLK-M04.sysops.aol.com> Just picking up the former thoughts from this thread, Of course, when I wrote about "hiding" rock samples for a pickup on a return trek, I was partly joking and writing tongue-in-cheek, partly not. One trip I had in particular mind when I wrote this was a year ago when I visited Kilbourne Hole volcanic crater in southernmost New Mexico, a source of very neat and abundant "olivine bombs" (peridotite xenoliths).? These are, I must acknowledge, more of geological than mineral or gem interest, as there is nothing with any crystal form, and peridot grains large enough for faceting are very few and far between (if any). Kilbourne Hole is very much like Meteor Crater--just a low rim, only appears as a barely perceptible low hill from a distance, but is a rather impressive, wide crater is revealed when you get there and walk up on to the rim (but not nearly so deep as Meteor Crater, AZ).? It is a "maar" type, explosion crater.? Anyway, on my visit & camping trip there, I'd hiked up on to the rim & down to the inside slope, and collected a heavy enough sack of nodules that I didn't feel like backpacking them along for the rest of however far I would hike around the crater.? So I crossed back over the low rim to the dirt road that led along the east side of the crater, and cached them there.? Not wanting some casual passerby (I?had seen another car or truck or two there in the vicinity) to come by and think "oh gosh, somebody left & forgot a sack of nice interesting rocks here, let's just take 'em home), I put them discretely behind a largish but semi-distinctive bush,?I think?a big clump of yuccas.? By the time I was done I'd actually deposited two sacks of rocks--just left them at two different spots, and walked the mile or?more back to my jeep with a lighter pack, and drove back to recover them, by which time it was past sunset and getting on toward dark.? So, you guessed it, I had quite a "which was the right yucca?" experience, and it took several stops and searching around (by this time, with a flashlight) to find my sacks... but I did recover them all, eventually.? I had a couple of the larger peridotite nodules from here on display at our USGS both at the 2007 Tucson Show---it was on my way to Tucson that I had stopped there. Cheers, Pete Modreski -----Original Message----- From: Lanny R To: ajs@frii.com; Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:32 am Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] new to the page In this instance, both were about fist size, and neither one was a specimen I would bother to carry up hill very far on purpose! I don't think I would even be happy under the circumstances if they were both fantastic specimens.? ? Gets me thinking, maybe I should go check all the pockets of my backpack for specimens from the last trip... .? ? Lanny? ? On Apr 22, 2008, at 10:44 AM, Alan Silverstein wrote:? ? >> How about loading your backpack, hiking the 14 miles into the >> interior? >> of the Sawtooth Mountains in Idaho, setting up camp, digging out all? >> your gear, and finding two wrapped specimens from a previous trip >> in a? >> little-used side pocket.? >? > Depends. How big and massive, and how attractive? :-)? >? > Alan Silverstein? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From gene at fossilnut.com Thu Apr 24 04:34:09 2008 From: gene at fossilnut.com (gene@fossilnut.com) Date: Thu Apr 24 04:34:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? References: <20080327161551.E93751CC42@io.frii.com> <001901c89fd4$800fc760$6500a8c0@Junior> <003001c89ff0$688dccb0$6401a8c0@AxelHP> <009901c8a2f1$a3b4eae0$6500a8c0@Junior> <480BDB6E.52DB@Tomaszewski.net> <026801c8a358$0d2d6ef0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> <7.0.0.16.2.20080420213221.0357b1e0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <016e01c8a5ff$1ef7a9d0$0201a8c0@your4dacd0ea75> Tim You are correct. Most people will not need the big air dryers. The coil and separator arrangement for an air dryer works as good as a $500 unit in removing water. I have found that you don't really need it most of the year or all of the year if I am using an inert abrasive. I do a lot with sodium bicarbonate and for that I need the coils in the summer when the humidity is running high here on the east coast. Gene Hartstein ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: ; "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Monday, April 21, 2008 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] air abrasive units - sticker shock!!!? > Doh! I meant 0.1 mm, not 1 mm nozzle. I was told by COMCO that under no > circumstances should I run their microblasters without an air dryer. My > air dryers cost $20 each and works like a charm. Google "desiccant snake > air dryer". Cheap, disposable, and last a long, long time. Don't be fooled > by the $500 dryers; you don't need them unless you live in the jungle :) I > have been using a Delta dual bag dust collector for about 6 months now and > I can report that it works splendidly with an SS White dust cabinet. More > suction than I need and it's in its own little house outside so it can > spew all the powder it wants through the cheap bags. I air it out every > once in a while since I am paranoid that the motor could die if it sucks > in too much dolomite. There are 60 (I think) micron mesh bags available > for them but you have to shop around for them. Since I use 40 micron media > they wouldn't do me much good. > > At 07:33 PM 4/20/2008, you wrote: >>Typical air abrasive units have nozzle diameters much smaller than any of >>the cheaper units that have been mentioned. I have 2 old SS White units. >>The first one came with a blast cabinet and a Torrit dust collector for >>under $1000, The second cost me about $600. I bought 2 more and resold >>these. Both needed a little work and cost me in the range of $250. >> >>The micro blasters deliver controlled grit and controlled pressure through >>nozzles that range from 17 thousandths of an inch up to a whopping 60 >>thousandths. The fine nozzle is what is needed for delicate fossil work. >>In additon I can control pressures down to about 15 PSI which is sometimes >>needed for fine and delicate work. If you are trying to clean corrosion >>off a steel plate, by all means use one of the cheaper sandblasters. If >>you are trying to prep fossils or delicate minerals, you need the better >>units. If you live ina humid climate you will also need an air dryer. I >>made mine out of a copper coil in an ice bucket, with a separator >>downstream. Works fine. >>Gene > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > From territoones1 at ameritech.net Thu Apr 24 19:43:26 2008 From: territoones1 at ameritech.net (teresa jetter) Date: Thu Apr 24 19:45:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hi All Message-ID: <392751.59122.qm@web81703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi, I have a nice chunk of Turquoise that I bought in Arizona in 2006. It weighs 2.2lbs, and is hardened. If anyone would be interested in it would you email me off list. Thanks, Teri Jetter TeriJetter@yahoo.com From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Thu Apr 24 20:46:05 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Thu Apr 24 20:39:05 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Hawaiian Eruption featured in my local newspaper Message-ID: <4811524B.1892@Tomaszewski.net> The 'back page' daily news summary in my local newspaper here in West Michigan, The Grand Rapids Press, included a great picture today of the volcano eruption on Hawaii, and a huge cloud of emissions. The caption noted that Volcano National Park was closed for the second time this month due to the fumes, and some evacuations had been required outside of the park. It looks like Kilauea has a new vent, and it is active, so the eruption now has two sources. Check out Halema `uma `u... http://volcano.wr.usgs.gov/kilaueastatus.php Kreigh From sellepack at excite.com Thu Apr 24 22:20:30 2008 From: sellepack at excite.com (Steve Sellepack) Date: Thu Apr 24 22:20:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Colorado Mineral Localities Message-ID: <20080425052030.B975E8B35C@xprdmxin.myway.com> Hi All, I am going to be making a trip to Colorado soon and I was wondering about insight or status of mineral collecting localities. I have done some limited collecting in Colorado but nothing extensive and would appreciate any help in regards to this matter especially since mines get blocked off, developed, etc. Thank you, Steve Sellepack _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From sellepack at excite.com Thu Apr 24 22:35:52 2008 From: sellepack at excite.com (Steve Sellepack) Date: Thu Apr 24 22:40:26 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to the page Message-ID: <20080425053552.771A68B33E@xprdmxin.myway.com> Well not exactly mineralogical but grabbing your field packfrom beneath you tent fly, hiking for about thirty minutes orso then hearing a rustling sound coming from your pack (mind you this was somewhere in southwest Chihuahua Mexico near Batopilasgeological mapping solo) wondering what it was for a while then finallystopping to empty out the pack by tipping it upside down and shaking as there was no way I was going to stick my hand in there and realizingthat I had just carried a mouse around. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Apr 25 08:11:50 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Apr 25 08:10:33 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for taconite Message-ID: <4811F4B6.1030502@verizon.net> Hi all, Does anyone have specimens of a rock called taconite? It is an ore from Minnesota. Thanks, Don From pmodreski at aol.com Fri Apr 25 09:10:54 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 25 09:13:51 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for taconite In-Reply-To: <4811F4B6.1030502@verizon.net> References: <4811F4B6.1030502@verizon.net> Message-ID: <8CA75061268884D-AC0-64B3@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> You're sure it's not a type of petrified Mexican food then, Don? -----Original Message----- From: DonH To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 9:11 am Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for taconite Hi all,? ? Does anyone have specimens of a rock called taconite? It is an ore from Minnesota.? ? Thanks,? Don? ? -- _______________________________________________? Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? Subscription Services:? http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From pmodreski at aol.com Fri Apr 25 09:15:32 2008 From: pmodreski at aol.com (pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Fri Apr 25 09:15:42 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] new to the page In-Reply-To: <20080425053552.771A68B33E@xprdmxin.myway.com> References: <20080425053552.771A68B33E@xprdmxin.myway.com> Message-ID: <8CA7506B7A0A158-AC0-651E@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> Could have been worse, Steve, I was expecting you were going to say, a rattlesnake. I have a couple-of-page?document? (two documents, actually) I give or send to people about collecting in Colorado, no "secret locations" in it and mostly no exact directions, but gives general info and a lot of references to other books & articles & websites.? I'll send you a copy offline & see if it's of any use in giving you any new info, I think I had offered to send these to people on this list some time ago, you might not have been on the list then.? (Anyone else want to see them, I'll be happy to email them to you too.) Pete -----Original Message----- From: Steve Sellepack To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com Sent: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 11:35 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] new to the page Well not exactly mineralogical but grabbing your field packfrom beneath you tent fly, hiking for about thirty minutes orso then hearing a rustling sound coming from your pack (mind you this was somewhere in southwest Chihuahua Mexico near Batopilasgeological mapping solo) wondering what it was for a while then finallystopping to empty out the pack by tipping it upside down and shaking as there was no way I was going to stick my hand in there and realizingthat I had just carried a mouse around. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From turnea55 at hotmail.com Fri Apr 25 16:26:06 2008 From: turnea55 at hotmail.com (Andrew Turner) Date: Fri Apr 25 16:26:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for taconite In-Reply-To: <8CA75061268884D-AC0-64B3@webmail-nd07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I have a couple of pieces I was given when I visited the various iron mines in MN several years ago. I wish I had more and could give you a few (I don't even know where mine is now). Taconite is not really an ore rock. It is basically what is created after the mining and processing the iron ore before it is sent on the ships to be delivered to a further processing facility. At one time, it was all over the place up there, especially along the conveyor that delivered it to the docks. Taconite is actually pretty boring, basically just a 1cm or so black pellet of mostly iron with no dicernable features. The real ore from the mines is much more interesting, lots of hematite and magnetite often replacing stromatolites in some mines and colorful banded iron formations (BIF) in others. If you do want some taconite, I'm betting some of the mining operations may give you some (if they are still operating). I know one company, bought up everyone else (used to be EVTAK), but I'm not sure who owns the mines now. Also try calling the Sudan Iron Mine, which is now a great state park in MN, as I'm pretty sure they sell some for pretty cheap. Hope this helps. Andrew Turner Victorville, CA USA >From: pmodreski@aol.com >Reply-To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem >collectors" >To: rockhounds@lists.drizzle.com >Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] looking for taconite >Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:10:54 -0400 > >You're sure it's not a type of petrified Mexican food then, Don? > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: DonH >To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > >Sent: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 9:11 am >Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for taconite > > >Hi all,? >? >Does anyone have specimens of a rock called taconite? It is an ore from >Minnesota.? >? >Thanks,? >Don? >? >-- _______________________________________________? >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List? >Subscription Services:? >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds? >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy:? >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html? > > > >--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- >multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html >--- >-- >_______________________________________________ >Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >Subscription Services: >http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: >http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From smtravis at plateautel.net Fri Apr 25 16:54:44 2008 From: smtravis at plateautel.net (steve travis) Date: Fri Apr 25 16:54:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for taconite References: <4811F4B6.1030502@verizon.net> Message-ID: <016001c8a72f$bc69a200$d59f324a@marilyn> I have a couple of coffey cans of it Steve Travis ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:11 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for taconite > > Hi all, > > Does anyone have specimens of a rock called taconite? It is an ore from > Minnesota. > > Thanks, > Don > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Fri Apr 25 18:20:04 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Fri Apr 25 18:09:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for taconite References: <4811F4B6.1030502@verizon.net> Message-ID: <481280DD.51A3@Tomaszewski.net> Don, I've got a promotional packet of taconite that was put out by The Iron Mining Industry Of Minnesota. The back of the packet reads Minnesota taconite is a very large formation of hard rock which contains tiny particles of iron ore. The mining industry has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in research and large modern plants to process the taconite into high grade iron ore suitable for steelmaking. Minnesota is competing with many other states and nations to win additional taconite investments. Taconite plants benefit our state and communities by paying taxes, by employing many people, and by purchasing supplies and services from many other businesses. The packet is divided into three sections, with samples in each... Crude Taconite These pieces of taconite came out of a huge layer of rock which was broken up by blasting, then hauled to a plant for crushing to this size. Next the rock is ground to a very find consistency so the iron bearing particles can be separated. Concentrate About one third of the particles contain iron: these are separated from the non iron bearing particles with powerful magnets. The material captured by the magnets is called concentrate and is over 60% iron. The ground up rock particles not containing iron are called tailing. Pellets The concentrate is rolled into balls and heat hardened at a temperature of 2400 degrees in a furnace or kiln. Pelletizing the concentrate makes it easier to transport and easier to melt in the blast furnace. Pellets are made into pig iron which in turn is made into steel. At our Club Show a few weeks ago we were selling taconite pellets; a dozen for 50 cents. We had 25 pounds or so left over that one of the members took home to store until next year's show. I could probably track it down. How much do you need? And what are you going to do with it? Kreigh DonH wrote: > > Hi all, > > Does anyone have specimens of a rock called taconite? It is an ore from > Minnesota. > > Thanks, > Don > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From donhalterman at verizon.net Fri Apr 25 18:30:59 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Fri Apr 25 18:29:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for taconite In-Reply-To: <481280DD.51A3@Tomaszewski.net> References: <4811F4B6.1030502@verizon.net> <481280DD.51A3@Tomaszewski.net> Message-ID: <481285D3.7030602@verizon.net> Hi all, This is a group response to all the members who replied. I was originally looking for the ore, not the processed pellets, but now that I think about it, I could use some of the ore concentrate and pellets as well. Here is a Wikipedia link with a photo of the raw material: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taconite I will run x-ray diffraction powder pattern on any of the samples. On the raw rock, I will also have a thin section made. If anyone sells me some or all of these, I will provide copies of the analyses. The thin sections cost about $25 to make, so if someone is interested in one of those, I'd negotiate whether they want to take it in trade. If anyone has a specific offer to sell any or all of the rough rock, concentrates, or pellets, contact me off-list. Thanks!!! Don From bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 27 03:14:33 2008 From: bassmeister_2000 at yahoo.com (Joe Mulvey) Date: Sun Apr 27 03:14:43 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Micromounters of NE Annual Symposium Message-ID: <61857.60464.qm@web51311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi All, I posted this submission last week but the text wrapping went awry. The 2008 Micromounters of New England Annual Mini-Symposium will be held on Saturday, May 17, 2008 at the Elk's Lodge in Hudson MA. Guest speaker will be by longtime member Bill Henderson. A very successful chemist by trade, Bill cultivated a passion for micromineralogy and taught himself to use a polarizing microscope. Bill has an extensive collectiopn of 14,000 mounted specimens and the honor of having a mineral named after him: Willhendersonite. Bill will present three talks: Microminerals of the Palabora Mine, South Africa The Palabora Mine, located near the town of Phalaborwa (yes, the spellings are correct) is working in a carbonatite rock. Carbonatites are extremely rare, igneous rocks composed mostly of calcite. Several elements found only in trace amounts in granites, etc., are concentrated in carbonatites, and these crystallize to form rare minerals. In most cases, such minerals are massive or, more properly, anhedral. Only rarely are the minerals at Palabora or elsewhere found in open cavities where thay form nice specimens. Examples of such, obtained by exchange with the mine superintendent no less, are shown in this talk. Microminerals of Italy Italy has experienced an extremely varied geological history, resulting in a great number of rock types and parageneses. These in turn have lead to an amazing number of mineral species. In fact, it would be hard to find any country of a similar size with so many. Further, a substantial fraction of these species occur in truly beautiful micro crystals. This talk will show these species arranged by their chemistry and paragenesis. Microminerals of Etruscan Slags In pre-Roman days, the Etruscans mined ores on the island of Elba, where Napoleon was exiled, and carried them by sea by the thousands of tons per year to the region of Populonia on the Italian mainland. There, they were smelted, but only poorly, leaving much metal behind in gas cavities in the slags. This metal has reacted over time with sea water to form a variety of attractive microminerals such as fiedlerite, barstowite, shattuckite, spangolite and very rare species. A Symposium Registration Form can be downloaded from the Micromounter?s website at http://www.micromountersofnewengland.org Our annual symposium is always a great way to see old faces, connect with the new friends and see what is current in the study of micromounts. Your ticket will include a catered lunch that is always superb. There are door prizes, a silent raffle, a sales table to benefit the club and as always, a giveaway table with some pretty neat stuff from well known localities. Non-members are encouraged to attend not only the symposium, but any of our regular monthly meetings. For more information, please visit the Micromounters of New England website at: http://www.micromountersofnewengland.org or feel free to email me at bassmeister_2000@yahoo.com Thank you! Joe Mulvey Nashua, NH USA From wisoh at msn.com Sun Apr 27 05:50:47 2008 From: wisoh at msn.com (JAMES BUDNIK) Date: Sun Apr 27 05:50:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] cincinnati ohio show Message-ID: May 3-4 is the Geofair for Cincinnati, Ohio (43rd Annual Gem, Mineral, Fossil and Jewelry Show). Featuring this year is "American Fossil Treasures" and "American Mineral Treasures". There is free parking and mineral or fossil collection for kids under 12. 45 retail dealer, 6 wholesale dealer and 5 publications for a list go to www.geofair.com. Speakers are Dr. Carl Francis, Dr. Richard Davis, Dr. William Ausich and Jeff Scovil. There is 70 museum, university and private displays of gems, minerals, fossils and jewelry. Family activities are geode cracking, education center (scout merit badge assistance) demonstrations, gold panning and swap area. uniformed Scouts free Adults $7 and kids $2 tow day pass $10 May 3 10 am-6 pm May 4 11 am-5 pm Cincinnati Gardens 2250 Seymour Avenue Cincinnati Ohio Produced by 2 non-profit organization Dry Dredgers amateur paleontologist and fossil collectors www.drydredgers.org Cincinnati Mineral Society amateur mineralogists and mineral collectors www.mineralsociety.org --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From dlevenseller at yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 19:00:24 2008 From: dlevenseller at yahoo.com (Mr Byron Levenseller) Date: Mon Apr 28 19:06:47 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California Message-ID: <261943.24333.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, My family really enjoys outdoor activities. We are from North Dakota but will be in northern California (San Francisco and near Clear lake) for vacation in June. We heard about rock hunting and it sounds like something that would be fun for the family. We are thinking about the type of hunting were you just walk around and see neat rocks and formations and stuff. We are not looking for anything spectacular like gold or anything like that. We just want to go out and have a good time and hopefully find something interesting. Does anyone know of any areas where this is possible? If so, what should we look for? Many thanks, David ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From kcbaran at arczip.com Mon Apr 28 22:52:39 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Mon Apr 28 22:54:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California In-Reply-To: <261943.24333.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <261943.24333.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4816B7A7.7020705@arczip.com> Not that it 100% accurate, but have you seen the book: Gem Trails of Northern California byJames R. Mitchell? It's pretty good. Take a look. Chuck Baran Mr Byron Levenseller wrote: >Hi everyone, > > My family really enjoys outdoor activities. We are >from North Dakota but will be in northern California >(San Francisco and near Clear lake) for vacation in >June. We heard about rock hunting and it sounds like >something that would be fun for the family. We are >thinking about the type of hunting were you just walk >around and see neat rocks and formations and stuff. We >are not looking for anything spectacular like gold or >anything like that. We just want to go out and have a >good time and hopefully find something interesting. > > Does anyone know of any areas where this is possible? >If so, what should we look for? > > Many thanks, > > David > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ >Be a better friend, newshound, and >know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > From dlevenseller at yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 06:17:56 2008 From: dlevenseller at yahoo.com (Mr Byron Levenseller) Date: Tue Apr 29 06:18:02 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California In-Reply-To: <4816B7A7.7020705@arczip.com> Message-ID: <760322.92670.qm@web90404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi chuck, Thanks for the info, I'll track it down and take a look. David --- Charles Baran wrote: > Not that it 100% accurate, but have you seen the > book: Gem Trails of > Northern California byJames R. Mitchell? It's > pretty good. Take a look. > > Chuck Baran > > Mr Byron Levenseller wrote: > > >Hi everyone, > > > > My family really enjoys outdoor activities. We are > >from North Dakota but will be in northern > California > >(San Francisco and near Clear lake) for vacation in > >June. We heard about rock hunting and it sounds > like > >something that would be fun for the family. We are > >thinking about the type of hunting were you just > walk > >around and see neat rocks and formations and stuff. > We > >are not looking for anything spectacular like gold > or > >anything like that. We just want to go out and have > a > >good time and hopefully find something interesting. > > > > Does anyone know of any areas where this is > possible? > >If so, what should we look for? > > > > Many thanks, > > > > David > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > >Be a better friend, newshound, and > >know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From jayhawkmn at yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 08:42:39 2008 From: jayhawkmn at yahoo.com (June Young) Date: Tue Apr 29 08:43:20 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] looking for taconite Message-ID: <523761.96980.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You might be interested in looking at this auction site http://www.auctionmasters.com/auctions_jbs.cfm?under Paleontology, Geology, More. I have used them many times but then I have been able to preview before bidding. June Hugo, MN ----- Original Message ---- From: DonH To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:30:59 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] looking for taconite Hi all, This is a group response to all the members who replied. I was originally looking for the ore, not the processed pellets, but now that I think about it, I could use some of the ore concentrate and pellets as well. Here is a Wikipedia link with a photo of the raw material: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taconite I will run x-ray diffraction powder pattern on any of the samples.? On the raw rock, I will also have a thin section made.? If anyone sells me some or all of these, I will provide copies of the analyses.? The thin sections cost about $25 to make, so if someone is interested in one of those, I'd negotiate whether they want to take it in trade. If anyone has a specific offer to sell any or all of the rough rock, concentrates, or pellets, contact me off-list. Thanks!!! Don -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From john at mlce.net Tue Apr 29 09:40:38 2008 From: john at mlce.net (John Dach) Date: Tue Apr 29 09:39:11 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California In-Reply-To: <760322.92670.qm@web90404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <760322.92670.qm@web90404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5956C44C-AAAB-437D-9578-D41076160D68@mlce.net> There is a lot of Obsidian in the Napa/Clearlake area. There is a small Geyser/petrified forest fee park in Napa, Lake county is known for herkamer "diamonds", Mendocino and Lake county have a good deal of jade to be found if you know what it looks like and where to go to look for it. The book suggested is a good start. We lived in Mendocino for 30+ years and did a bit of hounding. Most places are way off the road, on private land or miles of hiking (up) dirt "roads" (at least if we got stuff "up there" we carried it out downhill. Leech Lake Mountain in Lake county had an active jade mine for a number of years. One cannot go up to them mine but there was a lot of nice pieces of jade and "near" jade in the washes. This is the place requiring a long up hill walk. There is a rock shop between Cloverdale and Hopland on Hwy 101, might be good to stop and ask them if they have any ideas. There is a fellow in Anderson Valley (turn left to go to the mendocino Coast at the North end of Cloverdale and take hwy 128 to Philo (about 36 miles) and keep going to a wide spot in the road called Floodgate (cafe, realtor office, and the Rock Shop)) who has a claim in Trinity county for a Jade area and he has it on display, for sell in the shop. LOTS of other great specimens. He might be able to give you an idea of where to go. Sorry I don't have the fellows number of the actual name of the shop. If I can get the name/number of think of anything else, I will let you know. John Dach PS Being from the Dakotas and around a good deal of Indian History, the Pomo's were in the coastal areas and many of the towns and cities have information and displays about their living methods/actions and the like. Much different than the plains Indians. Check with the Chambers of Commerce in Boonville, Cloverdale, Santa Rosa and Ukiah and see what they have available. Napa, Sonoma, Clearlake and the like too. On Apr 29, 2008, at 6:17 AM, Mr Byron Levenseller wrote: > Hi chuck, > > Thanks for the info, I'll track it down and take a > look. > > David > > From dlevenseller at yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 10:18:03 2008 From: dlevenseller at yahoo.com (Mr Byron Levenseller) Date: Tue Apr 29 10:18:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California In-Reply-To: <5956C44C-AAAB-437D-9578-D41076160D68@mlce.net> Message-ID: <919139.85994.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wow, thanks for all the info John!! We have been to the Geyser place a few years ago and it was pretty neat to see it. I already ordered the book suggested and will start researching the the info you gave me. Thank you again, David --- John Dach wrote: > > There is a lot of Obsidian in the Napa/Clearlake > area. There is a > small Geyser/petrified forest fee park in Napa, Lake > county is known > for herkamer "diamonds", Mendocino and Lake county > have a good deal > of jade to be found if you know what it looks like > and where to go to > look for it. The book suggested is a good start. > We lived in > Mendocino for 30+ years and did a bit of hounding. > Most places are > way off the road, on private land or miles of hiking > (up) dirt > "roads" (at least if we got stuff "up there" we > carried it out > downhill. Leech Lake Mountain in Lake county had an > active jade mine > for a number of years. One cannot go up to them > mine but there was a > lot of nice pieces of jade and "near" jade in the > washes. This is > the place requiring a long up hill walk. There is a > rock shop > between Cloverdale and Hopland on Hwy 101, might be > good to stop and > ask them if they have any ideas. There is a fellow > in Anderson > Valley (turn left to go to the mendocino Coast at > the North end of > Cloverdale and take hwy 128 to Philo (about 36 > miles) and keep going > to a wide spot in the road called Floodgate (cafe, > realtor office, > and the Rock Shop)) who has a claim in Trinity > county for a Jade area > and he has it on display, for sell in the shop. > LOTS of other great > specimens. He might be able to give you an idea of > where to go. > Sorry I don't have the fellows number of the actual > name of the > shop. If I can get the name/number of think of > anything else, I will > let you know. > > John Dach > > PS Being from the Dakotas and around a good deal of > Indian History, > the Pomo's were in the coastal areas and many of the > towns and cities > have information and displays about their living > methods/actions and > the like. Much different than the plains Indians. > Check with the > Chambers of Commerce in Boonville, Cloverdale, Santa > Rosa and Ukiah > and see what they have available. Napa, Sonoma, > Clearlake and the > like too. > On Apr 29, 2008, at 6:17 AM, Mr Byron Levenseller > wrote: > > > Hi chuck, > > > > Thanks for the info, I'll track it down and take > a > > look. > > > > David > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From john at mlce.net Tue Apr 29 11:08:13 2008 From: john at mlce.net (John Dach) Date: Tue Apr 29 11:12:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California In-Reply-To: <919139.85994.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <919139.85994.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <783A0AF7-68E3-4CD3-A123-DAE9AF3CE7A8@mlce.net> One other thing that might interest you and your family, a tour of the Geyser Electrical Generation Plant near Geyserville (just N. of Healdsberg). Just the terrain is is pretty wild to drive through. Not much rock collection as far as I know but still interesting. John Dach On Apr 29, 2008, at 10:18 AM, Mr Byron Levenseller wrote: > Wow, thanks for all the info John!! We have been to > the Geyser place a few years ago and it was pretty > neat to see it. > > I already ordered the book suggested and will start > researching the the info you gave me. > > Thank you again, > > David > > --- John Dach wrote: > >> >> There is a lot of Obsidian in the Napa/Clearlake >> area. There is a >> small Geyser/petrified forest fee park in Napa, Lake >> county is known >> for herkamer "diamonds", Mendocino and Lake county >> have a good deal >> of jade to be found if you know what it looks like >> and where to go to >> look for it. The book suggested is a good start. >> We lived in >> Mendocino for 30+ years and did a bit of hounding. >> Most places are >> way off the road, on private land or miles of hiking >> (up) dirt >> "roads" (at least if we got stuff "up there" we >> carried it out >> downhill. Leech Lake Mountain in Lake county had an >> active jade mine >> for a number of years. One cannot go up to them >> mine but there was a >> lot of nice pieces of jade and "near" jade in the >> washes. This is >> the place requiring a long up hill walk. There is a >> rock shop >> between Cloverdale and Hopland on Hwy 101, might be >> good to stop and >> ask them if they have any ideas. There is a fellow >> in Anderson >> Valley (turn left to go to the mendocino Coast at >> the North end of >> Cloverdale and take hwy 128 to Philo (about 36 >> miles) and keep going >> to a wide spot in the road called Floodgate (cafe, >> realtor office, >> and the Rock Shop)) who has a claim in Trinity >> county for a Jade area >> and he has it on display, for sell in the shop. >> LOTS of other great >> specimens. He might be able to give you an idea of >> where to go. >> Sorry I don't have the fellows number of the actual >> name of the >> shop. If I can get the name/number of think of >> anything else, I will >> let you know. >> >> John Dach >> >> PS Being from the Dakotas and around a good deal of >> Indian History, >> the Pomo's were in the coastal areas and many of the >> towns and cities >> have information and displays about their living >> methods/actions and >> the like. Much different than the plains Indians. >> Check with the >> Chambers of Commerce in Boonville, Cloverdale, Santa >> Rosa and Ukiah >> and see what they have available. Napa, Sonoma, >> Clearlake and the >> like too. >> On Apr 29, 2008, at 6:17 AM, Mr Byron Levenseller >> wrote: >> >>> Hi chuck, >>> >>> Thanks for the info, I'll track it down and take >> a >>> look. >>> >>> David >>> >>> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage >> Policy: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http:// > mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Apr 29 11:11:29 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 29 11:19:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California In-Reply-To: <919139.85994.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <5956C44C-AAAB-437D-9578-D41076160D68@mlce.net> <919139.85994.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080429110907.0369cbe0@orerockon.com> The Clear Lake "diamonds" quartz crystals (which have no relation to nor do they look anything like the Herkimer quartz) are on private property, in an almond orchard. The obsidian "quarry" is on the county road and is easily accessible. The obsidian is of generally poor quality. >--- John Dach wrote: > > > > > There is a lot of Obsidian in the Napa/Clearlake > > area. There is a > > small Geyser/petrified forest fee park in Napa, Lake > > county is known > > for herkamer "diamonds", Mendocino and Lake county > > have a good deal > > of jade to be found if you know what it looks like > > and where to go to > > look for it. The book suggested is a good start. > > We lived in > > Mendocino for 30+ years and did a bit of hounding. > > Most places are > > way off the road, on private land or miles of hiking > > (up) dirt > > "roads" (at least if we got stuff "up there" we > > carried it out > > downhill. Leech Lake Mountain in Lake county had an > > active jade mine > > for a number of years. One cannot go up to them > > mine but there was a > > lot of nice pieces of jade and "near" jade in the > > washes. This is > > the place requiring a long up hill walk. There is a > > rock shop > > between Cloverdale and Hopland on Hwy 101, might be > > good to stop and > > ask them if they have any ideas. There is a fellow > > in Anderson > > Valley (turn left to go to the mendocino Coast at > > the North end of > > Cloverdale and take hwy 128 to Philo (about 36 > > miles) and keep going > > to a wide spot in the road called Floodgate (cafe, > > realtor office, > > and the Rock Shop)) who has a claim in Trinity > > county for a Jade area > > and he has it on display, for sell in the shop. > > LOTS of other great > > specimens. He might be able to give you an idea of > > where to go. > > Sorry I don't have the fellows number of the actual > > name of the > > shop. If I can get the name/number of think of > > anything else, I will > > let you know. > > > > John Dach > > > > PS Being from the Dakotas and around a good deal of > > Indian History, > > the Pomo's were in the coastal areas and many of the > > towns and cities > > have information and displays about their living > > methods/actions and > > the like. Much different than the plains Indians. > > Check with the > > Chambers of Commerce in Boonville, Cloverdale, Santa > > Rosa and Ukiah > > and see what they have available. Napa, Sonoma, > > Clearlake and the > > like too. Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From dlevenseller at yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 11:34:42 2008 From: dlevenseller at yahoo.com (Mr Byron Levenseller) Date: Tue Apr 29 11:34:46 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California In-Reply-To: <783A0AF7-68E3-4CD3-A123-DAE9AF3CE7A8@mlce.net> Message-ID: <509978.99833.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This sounds interesting. When you say wild do you mean we will need a 4wd to be able to get through or just really interesting to see? This is pretty much on our way to the lake so it has some good possibilities. I'll see if I can Google the place and get more info. Thanks for the suggestion, David --- John Dach wrote: > One other thing that might interest you and your > family, a tour of > the Geyser Electrical Generation Plant near > Geyserville (just N. of > Healdsberg). Just the terrain is is pretty wild to > drive through. > Not much rock collection as far as I know but still > interesting. > > John Dach > On Apr 29, 2008, at 10:18 AM, Mr Byron Levenseller > wrote: > > > Wow, thanks for all the info John!! We have been > to > > the Geyser place a few years ago and it was pretty > > neat to see it. > > > > I already ordered the book suggested and will > start > > researching the the info you gave me. > > > > Thank you again, > > > > David > > > > --- John Dach wrote: > > > >> > >> There is a lot of Obsidian in the Napa/Clearlake > >> area. There is a > >> small Geyser/petrified forest fee park in Napa, > Lake > >> county is known > >> for herkamer "diamonds", Mendocino and Lake > county > >> have a good deal > >> of jade to be found if you know what it looks > like > >> and where to go to > >> look for it. The book suggested is a good start. > >> We lived in > >> Mendocino for 30+ years and did a bit of > hounding. > >> Most places are > >> way off the road, on private land or miles of > hiking > >> (up) dirt > >> "roads" (at least if we got stuff "up there" we > >> carried it out > >> downhill. Leech Lake Mountain in Lake county had > an > >> active jade mine > >> for a number of years. One cannot go up to them > >> mine but there was a > >> lot of nice pieces of jade and "near" jade in the > >> washes. This is > >> the place requiring a long up hill walk. There > is a > >> rock shop > >> between Cloverdale and Hopland on Hwy 101, might > be > >> good to stop and > >> ask them if they have any ideas. There is a > fellow > >> in Anderson > >> Valley (turn left to go to the mendocino Coast at > >> the North end of > >> Cloverdale and take hwy 128 to Philo (about 36 > >> miles) and keep going > >> to a wide spot in the road called Floodgate > (cafe, > >> realtor office, > >> and the Rock Shop)) who has a claim in Trinity > >> county for a Jade area > >> and he has it on display, for sell in the shop. > >> LOTS of other great > >> specimens. He might be able to give you an idea > of > >> where to go. > >> Sorry I don't have the fellows number of the > actual > >> name of the > >> shop. If I can get the name/number of think of > >> anything else, I will > >> let you know. > >> > >> John Dach > >> > >> PS Being from the Dakotas and around a good deal > of > >> Indian History, > >> the Pomo's were in the coastal areas and many of > the > >> towns and cities > >> have information and displays about their living > >> methods/actions and > >> the like. Much different than the plains > Indians. > >> Check with the > >> Chambers of Commerce in Boonville, Cloverdale, > Santa > >> Rosa and Ukiah > >> and see what they have available. Napa, Sonoma, > >> Clearlake and the > >> like too. > >> On Apr 29, 2008, at 6:17 AM, Mr Byron Levenseller > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi chuck, > >>> > >>> Thanks for the info, I'll track it down and > take > >> a > >>> look. > >>> > >>> David > >>> > >>> > >> -- > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > >> Subscription Services: > >> > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > >> Policy: > >> > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > ______________ > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http:// > > > mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From dlevenseller at yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 11:40:34 2008 From: dlevenseller at yahoo.com (Mr Byron Levenseller) Date: Tue Apr 29 11:42:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20080429110907.0369cbe0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <531366.66864.qm@web90406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Those "diamonds" sound really interesting!! I wonder if they are anyplace else. The obsidian "quarry" looks like it might be an idea. We are really just interested in going out and having fun together and are not so concerned with the quality. It would just be fun for the kids to be able to say "look what I found" to their friends. Would you mind giving me the location for the "quarry" or will it be in the book I orderd? Thank you for all the help! --- Tim Fisher wrote: > The Clear Lake "diamonds" quartz crystals (which > have no relation to > nor do they look anything like the Herkimer quartz) > are on private > property, in an almond orchard. The obsidian > "quarry" is on the > county road and is easily accessible. The obsidian > is of generally > poor quality. > > >--- John Dach wrote: > > > > > > > > There is a lot of Obsidian in the Napa/Clearlake > > > area. There is a > > > small Geyser/petrified forest fee park in Napa, > Lake > > > county is known > > > for herkamer "diamonds", Mendocino and Lake > county > > > have a good deal > > > of jade to be found if you know what it looks > like > > > and where to go to > > > look for it. The book suggested is a good > start. > > > We lived in > > > Mendocino for 30+ years and did a bit of > hounding. > > > Most places are > > > way off the road, on private land or miles of > hiking > > > (up) dirt > > > "roads" (at least if we got stuff "up there" we > > > carried it out > > > downhill. Leech Lake Mountain in Lake county > had an > > > active jade mine > > > for a number of years. One cannot go up to them > > > mine but there was a > > > lot of nice pieces of jade and "near" jade in > the > > > washes. This is > > > the place requiring a long up hill walk. There > is a > > > rock shop > > > between Cloverdale and Hopland on Hwy 101, might > be > > > good to stop and > > > ask them if they have any ideas. There is a > fellow > > > in Anderson > > > Valley (turn left to go to the mendocino Coast > at > > > the North end of > > > Cloverdale and take hwy 128 to Philo (about 36 > > > miles) and keep going > > > to a wide spot in the road called Floodgate > (cafe, > > > realtor office, > > > and the Rock Shop)) who has a claim in Trinity > > > county for a Jade area > > > and he has it on display, for sell in the shop. > > > LOTS of other great > > > specimens. He might be able to give you an idea > of > > > where to go. > > > Sorry I don't have the fellows number of the > actual > > > name of the > > > shop. If I can get the name/number of think of > > > anything else, I will > > > let you know. > > > > > > John Dach > > > > > > PS Being from the Dakotas and around a good > deal of > > > Indian History, > > > the Pomo's were in the coastal areas and many of > the > > > towns and cities > > > have information and displays about their living > > > methods/actions and > > > the like. Much different than the plains > Indians. > > > Check with the > > > Chambers of Commerce in Boonville, Cloverdale, > Santa > > > Rosa and Ukiah > > > and see what they have available. Napa, Sonoma, > > > Clearlake and the > > > like too. > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage > Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From kcbaran at arczip.com Tue Apr 29 12:38:11 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Tue Apr 29 12:40:14 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay Message-ID: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> Friends: If you get on E-bay, input quartz crystals in the search feature you will come up with a whole BUNCH of hits. Many of them are big, very nice and very cheap. You can tell the Chinese crystals because most are being held in a person's hand with an outdoors background. Has anyone ever bought these or have any ideas or feed back as far as quality, buying safety, etc? Thanks? Chuck Baran From therebelcountry at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 13:00:17 2008 From: therebelcountry at gmail.com (Kevin Winter) Date: Tue Apr 29 13:00:23 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> Message-ID: I actually purchased one of these on ebay. I never got around to checking refractive index or anything (plus it weighs about 5 pounds), but i'm not 100% sure they are actual quartz. The specimen i received had a small chip on the bottom showing a concoidial fracture. In addition, there are many fine bubbles that form a hazy shadow you may be able to see in the pictures. I made sure i picked the cleanest one listed, and while the bubbles are small, they worry me. I'm by no means a rock expert (an enthusiatic and inexperienced amateur collector maybe), but i suspect it may be glass. I tried scratching the bottom with some various materials, including some rough zircon i had laying around, but the results weren't distinct enough for me to say that it was definitely scratched, or only slightly scratched (plus, i've never actually done a scratch test). Just remember that i am recalling a 5lb-ish clear "quartz" crystal i purchases from ebay and shipped from china, so mine may be different. After i received it i went back and double-checked - the auction never actually mentioned quartz, just "crystal". Hope this helps. I'd be willing do re-do a scratch test if someone can describe how to do it correctly. I have a refractometer (among other random chinese-cheap gemologist tools), but never really used it and i doubt i could fit the specimen on it (and i'd rather avoid chipping off a hunk if possible). On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Charles Baran wrote: > Friends: If you get on E-bay, input quartz crystals in the search > feature you will come up with a whole BUNCH of hits. Many of them are big, > very nice and very cheap. You can tell the Chinese crystals because most are > being held in a person's hand with an outdoors background. Has anyone ever > bought these or have any ideas or feed back as far as quality, buying > safety, etc? Thanks? > Chuck Baran > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- Open Source, Open Mind http://kwinter.org From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Tue Apr 29 13:15:00 2008 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Tue Apr 29 13:15:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> Message-ID: <013d01c8aa35$b480d5f0$6601a8c0@okapi> Holy Mackerel! Check out item 150240971346 on eBay. ROSE QUARTZ CRYSTALS. Gosh... I gotta get me one. GcB From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 29 13:25:29 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Tue Apr 29 13:28:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> Message-ID: <000c01c8aa37$2b50fbf0$0200000a@LarryRush> If the crystal looks absolutely clear, with no imperfections, and is perfectly terminated, it may be one of the "manufactured" ones. Some are colored red, and are very even in color appearance. Some are perfectly doubly terminated. I have heard that they are made by melting and casting silica, but I have no first-hand experience. Unfortunately, these days, much from China must be viewed with skepticism. Also, watch out for "Zircon" from China in large, well formed transparent crystals. These are also reputed to be manufactured. Rock Currier may have more first-hand experience than do I (?). Larry Rush ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:38 PM Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay > Friends: If you get on E-bay, input quartz crystals in the search > feature you will come up with a whole BUNCH of hits. Many of them are > big, very nice and very cheap. You can tell the Chinese crystals because > most are being held in a person's hand with an outdoors background. Has > anyone ever bought these or have any ideas or feed back as far as quality, > buying safety, etc? Thanks? > Chuck Baran > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From betdav97 at aol.com Tue Apr 29 13:31:19 2008 From: betdav97 at aol.com (betdav97@aol.com) Date: Tue Apr 29 13:31:49 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> Message-ID: <8CA784F1DE509BA-164C-3156@Webmail-mg18.sim.aol.com> ? Kevin, ? Funny, quartz does have a conchoidal fracture, and can have bubbles included in the crystal, some of which may contain water. The synthetic crystals balls from China ave been pretty free of bubbles. It kind of sounds like you may have bought a real crystal. However, if you are familiar with glass bubbles and quartz bubbles, they are not the same. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Winter To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 4:00 pm Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay I actually purchased one of these on ebay. I never got around to checking refractive index or anything (plus it weighs about 5 pounds), but i'm not 100% sure they are actual quartz. The specimen i received had a small chip on the bottom showing a concoidial fracture. In addition, there are many fine bubbles that form a hazy shadow you may be able to see in the pictures. I made sure i picked the cleanest one listed, and while the bubbles are small, they worry me. I'm by no means a rock expert (an enthusiatic and inexperienced amateur collector maybe), but i suspect it may be glass. I tried scratching the bottom with some various materials, including some rough zircon i had laying around, but the results weren't distinct enough for me to say that it was definitely scratched, or only slightly scratched (plus, i've never actually done a scratch test). Just remember that i am recalling a 5lb-ish clear "quartz" crystal i purchases from ebay and shipped from china, so mine may be different. After i received it i went back and double-checked - the auction never actually mentioned quartz, just "crystal". Hope this helps. I'd be willing do re-do a scratch test if someone can describe how to do it correctly. I have a refractometer (among other random chinese-cheap gemologist tools), but never really used it and i doubt i could fit the specimen on it (and i'd rather avoid chipping off a hunk if possible). On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Charles Baran wrote: > Friends: If you get on E-bay, input quartz crystals in the search > feature you will come up with a whole BUNCH of hits. Many of them are big, > very nice and very cheap. You can tell the Chinese crystals because most are > being held in a person's hand with an outdoors background. Has anyone ever > bought these or have any ideas or feed back as far as quality, buying > safety, etc? Thanks? > Chuck Baran > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- Open Source, Open Mind http://kwinter.org -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From therebelcountry at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 14:02:46 2008 From: therebelcountry at gmail.com (Kevin Winter) Date: Tue Apr 29 14:05:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: <8CA784F1DE509BA-164C-3156@Webmail-mg18.sim.aol.com> References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> <8CA784F1DE509BA-164C-3156@Webmail-mg18.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:31 PM, wrote: > ? Kevin, > ? Funny, quartz does have a conchoidal fracture, and can have bubbles > included in the crystal, some of which may contain water. The synthetic > crystals balls from China ave been pretty free of bubbles. It kind of sounds > like you may have bought a real crystal. However, if you are familiar with > glass bubbles and quartz bubbles, they are not the same. > Dave I'm not familiar enough to say one way or the other, but these bubbles have a definite swirling pattern to them, almost like someone was pouring acrylic and stirred it but didn't let the bubbles settle out before it set. Thats what makes me suspicious. They are all very very small bubbles are are definitely gaseous. There are quite a few, at least dozens to hundreds of small bubbles smaller than a ballpoint pen's ball. On the other hand, if it is real, very cool =) The specific one i purchased had a seller registered in canada and with shipping it was only about $30 (US) for a 2.6 Lb clear crystal. From therebelcountry at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 14:11:12 2008 From: therebelcountry at gmail.com (Kevin Winter) Date: Tue Apr 29 14:11:16 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> <8CA784F1DE509BA-164C-3156@Webmail-mg18.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:02 PM, Kevin Winter wrote: > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:31 PM, wrote: > > ? Kevin, > > ? Funny, quartz does have a conchoidal fracture, and can have bubbles > > included in the crystal, some of which may contain water. The synthetic > > crystals balls from China ave been pretty free of bubbles. It kind of sounds > > like you may have bought a real crystal. However, if you are familiar with > > glass bubbles and quartz bubbles, they are not the same. > > Dave > > I'm not familiar enough to say one way or the other, but these bubbles > have a definite swirling pattern to them, almost like someone was > pouring acrylic and stirred it but didn't let the bubbles settle out > before it set. Thats what makes me suspicious. They are all very > very small bubbles are are definitely gaseous. There are quite a few, > at least dozens to hundreds of small bubbles smaller than a ballpoint > pen's ball. > > On the other hand, if it is real, very cool =) The specific one i > purchased had a seller registered in canada and with shipping it was > only about $30 (US) for a 2.6 Lb clear crystal. > In case anyone's interested, this seller is the one i purchased from in the past: http://stores.ebay.com/goodbeez-store S/he has several points that are similar to what i received. From julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com Tue Apr 29 14:37:12 2008 From: julie at pandemoniumgraphics.com (Julie Siebel) Date: Tue Apr 29 14:38:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com><8CA784F1DE509BA-164C-3156@Webmail-mg18.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <000d01c8aa41$381d2750$0300a8c0@warren> Ya know, every time I see one of these threads on the list it makes me want to intentionally start a collection of fakes. The prices are certainly right! Julie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Winter" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay > In case anyone's interested, this seller is the one i purchased from > in the past: > http://stores.ebay.com/goodbeez-store > > S/he has several points that are similar to what i received. From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Apr 29 14:56:17 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Apr 29 14:54:38 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> <8CA784F1DE509BA-164C-3156@Webmail-mg18.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <48179981.8000807@verizon.net> I once bought a "moonstone carved frog" for 99 cents from a Chinese vendor. To make the story short, it was glass. I complained to the vendor, and within days he had closed his eBay account. I have had other experiences with overseas vendors; for example, not one specimen of "andesine" I bought was actually andesine. EBay is a place where you can find great bargains but also a place of great deception and skullduggery. If an item seems too good to be true, it probably is. Use the ebay system to pointed and specific questions before buying. If you don't like the answer, or don't get one, don't buy. Some people don't like PayPal, but in the few cases where I've been ripped off, I filed a dispute and got my money back. Best, Don "600 eBay transactions and counting" From dm.schmidt at shaw.ca Tue Apr 29 14:59:14 2008 From: dm.schmidt at shaw.ca (dm.schmidt) Date: Tue Apr 29 14:59:22 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> <8CA784F1DE509BA-164C-3156@Webmail-mg18.sim.aol.com> <48179981.8000807@verizon.net> Message-ID: <29a901c8aa44$43bff210$6401a8c0@michael01> all of that Chinese andesine- the bright red or glue/green shift material...it is all treated Mexican material. there should be some trade release coming out shortly stating this. for years everyone swore up and down it was natural...it's not. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "DonH" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay > > > I once bought a "moonstone carved frog" for 99 cents from a Chinese > vendor. To make the story short, it was glass. I complained to the > vendor, and within days he had closed his eBay account. I have had other > experiences with overseas vendors; for example, not one specimen of > "andesine" I bought was actually andesine. EBay is a place where you can > find great bargains but also a place of great deception and skullduggery. > If an item seems too good to be true, it probably is. Use the ebay system > to pointed and specific questions before buying. If you don't like the > answer, or don't get one, don't buy. Some people don't like PayPal, but > in the few cases where I've been ripped off, I filed a dispute and got my > money back. > > Best, > Don > "600 eBay transactions and counting" > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Justin at the-vug.com Tue Apr 29 15:15:14 2008 From: Justin at the-vug.com (Justin@the-vug.com) Date: Tue Apr 29 15:15:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> <8CA784F1DE509BA-164C-3156@Webmail-mg18.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <005901c8aa46$80b5f460$6d01a8c0@windows2df367b> I've got one question for all of you... Why would you buy a suspect mineral from a chinese mineral dealer on eBay? Why not just burn your money instead? Justin FakeMinerals.com BTW, have fun looking at the fake Charoite that the Chinese lapidary factories have started selling to foolish Metapshycial dealers on eBay! From llbullbull at hotmail.com Tue Apr 29 15:15:56 2008 From: llbullbull at hotmail.com (Lawrence Bull) Date: Tue Apr 29 15:18:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] (no subject) Message-ID: Hello Everyone: Just a note: The 44th Annual New England Mineral and Gem Show is this coming weekend, May 5th and 6th. The place is the Topsfield Fairgrounds, Route 1 North, Topsfield, MA. This has become a very good show. Show hours are Saturday from 9 to 5 and Sunday from 10 to 4. Take care, Larry Bull _________________________________________________________________ Back to work after baby?how do you know when you?re ready? http://lifestyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-documentid=5797498&ocid=T067MSN40A0701A --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From donhalterman at verizon.net Tue Apr 29 15:35:11 2008 From: donhalterman at verizon.net (DonH) Date: Tue Apr 29 15:33:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: <29a901c8aa44$43bff210$6401a8c0@michael01> References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> <8CA784F1DE509BA-164C-3156@Webmail-mg18.sim.aol.com> <48179981.8000807@verizon.net> <29a901c8aa44$43bff210$6401a8c0@michael01> Message-ID: <4817A29F.5000308@verizon.net> dm.schmidt wrote: > all of that Chinese andesine- the bright red or glue/green shift > material...it is all treated Mexican material. > > there should be some trade release coming out shortly stating this. > > for years everyone swore up and down it was natural...it's not. The ones I analyzed all turned out to be oligoclase. However I'd like to know how you can treat feldspar to give it that reddish color. There was something odd-looking about all of it when I compared it to Ponderosa material, but I couldn't quite figure out why. Let me know when you see the release! best, Don From Ted at crystalgems.com Tue Apr 29 16:14:45 2008 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Tue Apr 29 16:14:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> Message-ID: <003b01c8aa4e$d04a2430$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Chuck: >From the ebay pics I can't tell if it's quartz or glass. Collectors are interested in big beautiful crystals, but it always seems to me that a holy grail for quartz crystal collectors is a crystal with absolutely perfect points. Quartz crystal facet edges and tips are extremely prone to chipping and breakage. I went through a number of your ebay seller's crystal pictures and I couldn't find even one chipped tip or facet edge. Yeah they had bases that looked rough, but every one had long sides with good edges and a perfect point. Yeah, it's possible that the seller has access to extremely well cared for crystals from the miners hand to the photo set... I, personally, wouldn't bet on it. My haphazard seat of the pants guess is that if they are real quartz, they have been helped, a lot. From the looks of some of those crystals they might've been helped from massive quartz into crystal shapes One possible way to check is to examine every facet table on your crystal. It takes a steady mount to polish perfectly flat surfaces right up to a sharp crystal edge. If any (or all) of your crystal's facets are rounded (check also towards the edges) than it is likely the crystal is shaped via a grinder polisher setup. Check the edges under magnification. Please understand that crystal edges could be rounded from tumbling action, but this is a different look than sharp crystal edges with a slight rounding just before the edge. If every facet is flat with no rounding anywhere, then it could be a real quartz crystal and you did extremely well. If not, well it sure will make a pretty weight or rainbow diffractor and it's still cheap for either one. Good Luck! Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA 22407 -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Charles Baran Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:38 PM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay Friends: If you get on E-bay, input quartz crystals in the search feature you will come up with a whole BUNCH of hits. Many of them are big, very nice and very cheap. You can tell the Chinese crystals because most are being held in a person's hand with an outdoors background. Has anyone ever bought these or have any ideas or feed back as far as quality, buying safety, etc? Thanks? Chuck Baran -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From albalmer at copper.net Tue Apr 29 16:26:14 2008 From: albalmer at copper.net (Al Balmer) Date: Tue Apr 29 16:28:58 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: <000c01c8aa37$2b50fbf0$0200000a@LarryRush> References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> <000c01c8aa37$2b50fbf0$0200000a@LarryRush> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:25:29 -0400, "Lawrence Rush" wrote: >If the crystal looks absolutely clear, with no imperfections, and is >perfectly terminated, it may be one of the "manufactured" ones. Some are >colored red, and are very even in color appearance. Some are perfectly >doubly terminated. I have heard that they are made by melting and casting >silica, but I have no first-hand experience. Unfortunately, these days, much >from China must be viewed with skepticism. > >Also, watch out for "Zircon" from China in large, well formed transparent >crystals. These are also reputed to be manufactured. Rock Currier may have >more first-hand experience than do I (?). I saw "synthetic zircon" for sale by an oriental couple at Quartzsite last year. It was actually CZ, though the seller argued about it, finally saying "It doesn't matter, because they're both corundum." True story! The price was 0.10/carat, high but not outrageous. > >Larry Rush > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Charles Baran" >To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" > >Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:38 PM >Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay > > >> Friends: If you get on E-bay, input quartz crystals in the search >> feature you will come up with a whole BUNCH of hits. Many of them are >> big, very nice and very cheap. You can tell the Chinese crystals because >> most are being held in a person's hand with an outdoors background. Has >> anyone ever bought these or have any ideas or feed back as far as quality, >> buying safety, etc? Thanks? >> Chuck Baran -- Al Balmer Sun City, AZ From kcbaran at arczip.com Tue Apr 29 17:44:15 2008 From: kcbaran at arczip.com (Charles Baran) Date: Tue Apr 29 17:46:21 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> <000c01c8aa37$2b50fbf0$0200000a@LarryRush> Message-ID: <4817C0DF.5020406@arczip.com> I really thank ALL you kids for the help, advice and tips. That's the really great thing about this board; there is SO much knowledge and willing people on it. Thanks again! Chuck Baran Al Balmer wrote: >On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:25:29 -0400, "Lawrence Rush" > wrote: > > > >>If the crystal looks absolutely clear, with no imperfections, and is >>perfectly terminated, it may be one of the "manufactured" ones. Some are >>colored red, and are very even in color appearance. Some are perfectly >>doubly terminated. I have heard that they are made by melting and casting >>silica, but I have no first-hand experience. Unfortunately, these days, much >> >> >>from China must be viewed with skepticism. > > >>Also, watch out for "Zircon" from China in large, well formed transparent >>crystals. These are also reputed to be manufactured. Rock Currier may have >>more first-hand experience than do I (?). >> >> > >I saw "synthetic zircon" for sale by an oriental couple at Quartzsite >last year. It was actually CZ, though the seller argued about it, >finally saying "It doesn't matter, because they're both corundum." >True story! The price was 0.10/carat, high but not outrageous. > > >>Larry Rush >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Charles Baran" >>To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" >> >>Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 3:38 PM >>Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay >> >> >> >> >>>Friends: If you get on E-bay, input quartz crystals in the search >>>feature you will come up with a whole BUNCH of hits. Many of them are >>>big, very nice and very cheap. You can tell the Chinese crystals because >>>most are being held in a person's hand with an outdoors background. Has >>>anyone ever bought these or have any ideas or feed back as far as quality, >>>buying safety, etc? Thanks? >>>Chuck Baran >>> >>> > > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Tue Apr 29 18:45:13 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Tue Apr 29 18:39:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> <8CA784F1DE509BA-164C-3156@Webmail-mg18.sim.aol.com> Message-ID: <4817CDAD.E93@Tomaszewski.net> Kevin, It sure sounds like it was poured into a mold while molten -- bubbles in natural quartz don't form swirls, and they are also somewhat unusual. Are the faces perfectly flat, or do you see the slight striations that natural crystals (especially larger ones) usually have? Is it right or left handed quartz? See http://rockhoundingar.com/quartz/rt.left.html for how to tell. The article also gives some finer points, such as the difference in reflection from positive and negative faces, that would help you identify a real crystal from a fake. Kreigh Kevin Winter wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 4:31 PM, wrote: > > ? Kevin, > > ? Funny, quartz does have a conchoidal fracture, and can have bubbles > > included in the crystal, some of which may contain water. The synthetic > > crystals balls from China ave been pretty free of bubbles. It kind of sounds > > like you may have bought a real crystal. However, if you are familiar with > > glass bubbles and quartz bubbles, they are not the same. > > Dave > > I'm not familiar enough to say one way or the other, but these bubbles > have a definite swirling pattern to them, almost like someone was > pouring acrylic and stirred it but didn't let the bubbles settle out > before it set. Thats what makes me suspicious. They are all very > very small bubbles are are definitely gaseous. There are quite a few, > at least dozens to hundreds of small bubbles smaller than a ballpoint > pen's ball. > > On the other hand, if it is real, very cool =) The specific one i > purchased had a seller registered in canada and with shipping it was > only about $30 (US) for a 2.6 Lb clear crystal. > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 > Content-Length: 2632 From jabac at hal-pc.org Tue Apr 29 18:54:36 2008 From: jabac at hal-pc.org (jbacko) Date: Tue Apr 29 18:54:56 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: <000c01c8aa37$2b50fbf0$0200000a@LarryRush> References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> <000c01c8aa37$2b50fbf0$0200000a@LarryRush> Message-ID: <4817D15C.6030904@hal-pc.org> Lawrence Rush wrote: > If the crystal looks absolutely clear, with no imperfections, and is > perfectly terminated, it may be one of the "manufactured" ones. Some > are colored red, and are very even in color appearance. Some are > perfectly doubly terminated. I have heard that they are made by > melting and casting silica, but I have no first-hand experience. > Unfortunately, these days, much from China must be viewed with > skepticism. > A large un-twinned NATURAL quartz crystal that is also very clear must always be suspect without provenance, because they are very uncommon. Manufacturing ("growing") large quartz is common, and is the source for almost all of the quartz used in electronics, etc. It is manufactured because twinned quartz crystals cannot be used in electronics. Which is one of the reasons that the Arkansas quartz is still so abundant and mostly not tied up in commercial, industrial mining. Also, the crystal would have to show a fracture on the bottom where it was broken form the matrix, or a second termination point. A natural doubly-terminated crystal would almost certainly show a flaw somewhere along the c-axis as it was attached to the matrix there. Even Herkimer quartz shows a lot of these flaws. The crystal does not grow in a vacuum; it has to be attached somewhere. A cheaper quartz "crystalline material" could be made from fusing silica, but it would almost certainly be a type of glass. It too is quite common because it is used in the manufacture of optics and lenses. However, in this case, the crystal would have to be manufactured as well. Refractive Index is the surest way to tell the difference. That and specific gravity. As a quick comparison perhaps, take a small but perfect real quartz crystal and the big one and cast a spectrum through them from sunlight. If they are the same material, the two spectra should be pretty close to identical. > Also, watch out for "Zircon" from China in large, well formed > transparent crystals. These are also reputed to be manufactured. Rock > Currier may have more first-hand experience than do I (?). > > Larry Rush > john From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Apr 29 19:01:25 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 29 19:09:01 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: <4817A29F.5000308@verizon.net> References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> <8CA784F1DE509BA-164C-3156@Webmail-mg18.sim.aol.com> <48179981.8000807@verizon.net> <29a901c8aa44$43bff210$6401a8c0@michael01> <4817A29F.5000308@verizon.net> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080429185446.035b26a8@orerockon.com> The pieces I have seen first hand have been dead ringers for untreated Plush, Oregon red sunstones. They always have some schiller, a dead giveaway that they are not from the Ponderosa. Their red sunstones never have schiller. I have never seen Mexican "straw" sunstone as large or as clear as the Plush material (or the "Chinese"). Of course there could be a source that is fairly unknown (makes sense if you are exporting it to China to be faked). I have seen straw from Plush and from SE of Spencer ID that was big enough to treat. I agree that if a treatment has been found to make straw stones into dead ringers for Plush, OR reds, the market is effectively dead for the Plush miners. At 03:35 PM 4/29/2008, you wrote: >dm.schmidt wrote: > >>all of that Chinese andesine- the bright red or glue/green shift >>material...it is all treated Mexican material. >>there should be some trade release coming out shortly stating this. >>for years everyone swore up and down it was natural...it's not. > > >The ones I analyzed all turned out to be oligoclase. However I'd >like to know how you can treat feldspar to give it that reddish >color. There was something odd-looking about all of it when I >compared it to Ponderosa material, but I couldn't quite figure out why. > >Let me know when you see the release! > >best, >Don Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From nospam at orerockon.com Tue Apr 29 19:04:23 2008 From: nospam at orerockon.com (Tim Fisher) Date: Tue Apr 29 19:11:39 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California In-Reply-To: <531366.66864.qm@web90406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20080429110907.0369cbe0@orerockon.com> <531366.66864.qm@web90406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20080429190142.03773010@orerockon.com> Both are in Gem Trails. Very near Clear Lake. Which I believe is in an extinct volcanic caldera. So you get a bonus geological sight :) If you get there soon the annual algae bloom won't have stunk up the lake yet. At 11:40 AM 4/29/2008, you wrote: >Those "diamonds" sound really interesting!! >I wonder if they are anyplace else. > > The obsidian "quarry" looks like it might be an idea. >We are really just interested in going out and having >fun together and are not so concerned with the >quality. It would just be fun for the kids to be able >to say "look what I found" to their friends. > > Would you mind giving me the location for the >"quarry" or will it be in the book I orderd? > > Thank you for all the help! > > > >--- Tim Fisher wrote: > > > The Clear Lake "diamonds" quartz crystals (which > > have no relation to > > nor do they look anything like the Herkimer quartz) > > are on private > > property, in an almond orchard. The obsidian > > "quarry" is on the > > county road and is easily accessible. The obsidian > > is of generally > > poor quality. > > Tim Fisher Ore-ROCK-On! Email address at http://OreRockOn.com From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 29 19:13:24 2008 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue Apr 29 19:13:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay Message-ID: <292502.34479.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Seems this thread has been well hashed but incase it wasn't mentioned... If one looks at the terminations/points on those "Huge Chinese Crystals" on EBay( sold by exclusively by Asian dealers or their US and Australian-based confederates) they'll observe that those are "facets" and not quartz crystal surfaces. Natural crystals do not have completely symmetric points. From the People's industry that brings us counterfeit moldavites , onyx, flourite, or jasper "jade" natural crystal ball fossils, fake dragonfly and primitive bird fossils, modern insects in 40 myo amber and paper mache shells... Should we be surprised at seeing the "all natural" but mass manufactured "unique and one-of-a-kind" lucky everything sold by Asian dealers on EBay? Elton From dm.schmidt at shaw.ca Tue Apr 29 19:20:50 2008 From: dm.schmidt at shaw.ca (dm.schmidt) Date: Tue Apr 29 19:22:53 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> <8CA784F1DE509BA-164C-3156@Webmail-mg18.sim.aol.com> <48179981.8000807@verizon.net> <29a901c8aa44$43bff210$6401a8c0@michael01> <4817A29F.5000308@verizon.net> <7.0.0.16.2.20080429185446.035b26a8@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <2d0301c8aa68$cf096800$6401a8c0@michael01> believe me Tim, it is not difficult to get 50 carat and larger cut pieces of Mexican material. a friend of mine knows someone who has been selling multiple tonnes of Mexican material to the Chinese the largest cut stone I ever saw (of the Mexican material) was a 285 carats (if I remember correctly...it may have been bigger) the Smithsonian also received as a donation a 100+ carat straw coloured cut stonesupposedly from Oregon that was actually from Mexico ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Fisher" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay > The pieces I have seen first hand have been dead ringers for untreated > Plush, Oregon red sunstones. They always have some schiller, a dead > giveaway that they are not from the Ponderosa. Their red sunstones never > have schiller. I have never seen Mexican "straw" sunstone as large or as > clear as the Plush material (or the "Chinese"). Of course there could be a > source that is fairly unknown (makes sense if you are exporting it to > China to be faked). I have seen straw from Plush and from SE of Spencer ID > that was big enough to treat. I agree that if a treatment has been found > to make straw stones into dead ringers for Plush, OR reds, the market is > effectively dead for the Plush miners. > > At 03:35 PM 4/29/2008, you wrote: >>dm.schmidt wrote: >> >>>all of that Chinese andesine- the bright red or glue/green shift >>>material...it is all treated Mexican material. >>>there should be some trade release coming out shortly stating this. >>>for years everyone swore up and down it was natural...it's not. >> >> >>The ones I analyzed all turned out to be oligoclase. However I'd like to >>know how you can treat feldspar to give it that reddish color. There was >>something odd-looking about all of it when I compared it to Ponderosa >>material, but I couldn't quite figure out why. >> >>Let me know when you see the release! >> >>best, >>Don > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From flint...smith at sbcglobal.net Tue Apr 29 20:39:56 2008 From: flint...smith at sbcglobal.net (Flint Smith) Date: Tue Apr 29 20:40:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay In-Reply-To: <013d01c8aa35$b480d5f0$6601a8c0@okapi> Message-ID: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just to confirm that the guy is a crook, check out the shipping: Shipping by EMS or UPS,need about 5-8 days arrived:AUD63.00(Give you Track number,Online Tracking) The follow fees are MUST pay: Shipping company fuel fee:AUD6.00,The customs fee:AUD6.00,packing fee:AUD 8.00, Human labor:AUD8.00 insurance: AUD5.00 Gary Brown wrote: Holy Mackerel! Check out item 150240971346 on eBay. ROSE QUARTZ CRYSTALS. Gosh... I gotta get me one. GcB -- --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From lpai at hotmail.com Wed Apr 30 00:53:53 2008 From: lpai at hotmail.com (Lyle Pai) Date: Wed Apr 30 00:53:00 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Man in China References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Everyone, As I'm brand spanking new to the list and not known to be a shy person, let me jump in with both feet and see if I sink or swim... My name is Lyle Pai. I'm a Chinese American currently living in Shanghai. I moved to Chicago in 1967 from Taiwan and grew up in the Chicago suburbs. Went to Downers Grove South High School (Go Mustangs!) and then went onto the University of Chicago (Go Moroons!) where I graduated with a degree in Economics. After school, I worked in the Financial Futures markets in Chicago before being recruited by Citibank New York to trade foreign exchange and fixed income securities. After 4-5 years in New York, I moved to Hong Kong in 1986 with Reuters PLC and have been in Greater China (HK, Taiwan, Shanghai) ever since. After getting out of the banking business about 5 years ago, I've been involved with real estate investments in China and trading Chinese stocks. About six months ago, I met a lovely Chinese girl (actually a lady) that I plan to marry (I know, I'm a real sucker for punishment...). Anyway, long story short, my girlfriend is involved in the mineral business in China so I've been on a steep learning curve over the past few months on the whole mineral business. Unfortunately, there are only so many hours in a day... Luckily, I also had a chemistry background (my mother wanted me to be a doctor, you know the story...) so some of the nomenclature is not totally new to me... Anyway, I was reading the recent discussion on 'Chinese crystals on Ebay' and noted the concerns of many on the authenticity of some of the products coming out of China. I understand that this problem is of grave concern to many people around the world and as the old saying goes, CAVEAT EMPTOR... I know it's hard for some of you to understand and to accept that so many faked products are coming out of China. You have to be here and watch the change that is overtaking China to appreciate what's going on. I first visited China with my parents in 1984. You should've seen it then... and what I've seen over the past 24 years is nothing short of astounding... China went from a third world country to a global power in just over 1 generation... You can just imaging how fast the wealth discrepancies have been growing here so it's understandable that there are many who wish to get rich quickly, even if it is at the expense of poor suckers like you and me... Just remember, Americans are not above sucking the blood of their own and at the much bigger scale. Just look at Enron and other examples of corporate malfeasance over the past 30 years... I'm not trying to excuse the fraud but just giving you the subtext of what's been happening here from someone who has watched it up close for the past 20+ years... Anyway, I know this is getting long so I'll get to my pitch before you guys fall asleep. I've visited several of the markets in China including those that sell crystals. I've seen some amazing things and plan to get into the mineral collecting business over time. As I'm new to the business, I'm proceeding cautiously. I see that the internet is the way to go but again, I'm learning to crawl before I start to walk. In short, I would be very interested in working with any number of yous to source the stones, minerals, crystals that you need from China. I need knowledge (like how to distinguish between real and fake crystals, etc) and experience that many of you can provide. In return, I get you what you want or need at a reasonable price plus reasonable shipping cost. I can ship (via ocean freight) to Chicago where my family still lives and then ship out by UPS ground at a much cheaper rate than what they offer on Ebay. Of course, this takes longer than EMS shipments but can be done at a much lower cost...ALSO, I need to make some money doing this... but I'll guarantee you that you get exactly what you paid for, not some fake replica...AND, of cause, I can communicate fluently in English so things don't get mixed in translation... Interested parties are welcome to contact me. I have a US phone number: (630) 214-9727 that you can call me on and I pick up in Shanghai... Just remember, I'm on the opposite side of the planet from you so 13:00 CST is 02:00 here in Shanghai. Please don't call me in your afternoons, I'm sleeping. I can be reached here all through your evenings and into the mornings. If I'm not in the office, the calls jump to my cell phone and you're paying international cellular rates (which can be expensive) ... so before you want to hear my pleasant voice, please drop me an email: lpai@hotmail.com and let me know what you would like to do. As some of you already know, exporting real fossils is illegal so I won't do that. Otherwise, anything goes. China has an abundance of rocks and minerals and they're not above selling the roof off their house... I will be in Tucson next year for the show so hope to see some of yous in person then. I will be going to Sainte-Marie and Munich this year so if any of yous attend those shows, please contact me and let's have a beer together. I know that many of yous are already buying and selling stones from China and here comes this newbie to increase the competition.... My goals are simple: I like what I see and I can see there's money to be made in collecting and trading good stuff. Most of the good stuff is held by American or European collectors. However, there is growing interest by Chinese collectors and before soon, some of the Chinese collectors will join the world ranks... I've seen some collections already that would make your mouth water... One of these days, they'll have an international show like Tucson here in China and you guys get to come over and see for yourself... I'll be welcoming you and showing off my collection then... My sincere thanks for your patience and kindest regards from Shanghai... Lyle From john at mlce.net Wed Apr 30 01:03:32 2008 From: john at mlce.net (John Dach) Date: Wed Apr 30 01:02:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20080429110907.0369cbe0@orerockon.com> References: <5956C44C-AAAB-437D-9578-D41076160D68@mlce.net> <919139.85994.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20080429110907.0369cbe0@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <0D25EF02-9551-437E-9778-6C8F9BD94978@mlce.net> On Apr 29, 2008, at 11:11 AM, Tim Fisher wrote: > The Clear Lake "diamonds" quartz crystals (which have no relation > to nor do they look anything like the Herkimer quartz) are on > private property, in an almond orchard. Actually the Quartz crystals are found in many places in Clearlake area, but yes most all areas are now on private property. > The obsidian "quarry" is on the county road and is easily accessible. One can find Obsidian in many places along the roads. Often one doesn't even realize that what they are looking at is obsidian. On the way to Calstioga from Clearlake we have found entire road cut banks of obsidian. Not of great quality but plentiful. The Indians of times past made lots of use from it, I collected 100's of lbs of chips and pieces when I was farming in Anderson Valley, many miles from the Konocti area (cone on the edge of Clearlake - lake). Often I would find hundreds of chips of the same color in a 2-3 foot area, where a point of some sort was made so many years before. Nearly all points I found over 25 years were "amateur" points, looking like a child's writing when they are learning to write, the points were child's points. I did find a number of great points, one VERY NICE hide scraper. All of the obsidian that these were made from had to be brought into Anderson Valley and there is no such material in the valley. > The obsidian is of generally poor quality. Hope you have fun doing what ever you decide to do. John Dach > >> --- John Dach wrote: >> >> > >> > There is a lot of Obsidian in the Napa/Clearlake >> > area. There is a >> > small Geyser/petrified forest fee park in Napa, Lake >> > county is known >> > for herkamer "diamonds", Mendocino and Lake county >> > have a good deal >> > of jade to be found if you know what it looks like >> > and where to go to >> > look for it. The book suggested is a good start. >> > We lived in >> > Mendocino for 30+ years and did a bit of hounding. >> > Most places are >> > way off the road, on private land or miles of hiking >> > (up) dirt >> > "roads" (at least if we got stuff "up there" we >> > carried it out >> > downhill. Leech Lake Mountain in Lake county had an >> > active jade mine >> > for a number of years. One cannot go up to them >> > mine but there was a >> > lot of nice pieces of jade and "near" jade in the >> > washes. This is >> > the place requiring a long up hill walk. There is a >> > rock shop >> > between Cloverdale and Hopland on Hwy 101, might be >> > good to stop and >> > ask them if they have any ideas. There is a fellow >> > in Anderson >> > Valley (turn left to go to the mendocino Coast at >> > the North end of >> > Cloverdale and take hwy 128 to Philo (about 36 >> > miles) and keep going >> > to a wide spot in the road called Floodgate (cafe, >> > realtor office, >> > and the Rock Shop)) who has a claim in Trinity >> > county for a Jade area >> > and he has it on display, for sell in the shop. >> > LOTS of other great >> > specimens. He might be able to give you an idea of >> > where to go. >> > Sorry I don't have the fellows number of the actual >> > name of the >> > shop. If I can get the name/number of think of >> > anything else, I will >> > let you know. >> > >> > John Dach >> > >> > PS Being from the Dakotas and around a good deal of >> > Indian History, >> > the Pomo's were in the coastal areas and many of the >> > towns and cities >> > have information and displays about their living >> > methods/actions and >> > the like. Much different than the plains Indians. >> > Check with the >> > Chambers of Commerce in Boonville, Cloverdale, Santa >> > Rosa and Ukiah >> > and see what they have available. Napa, Sonoma, >> > Clearlake and the >> > like too. > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at mlce.net Wed Apr 30 01:05:02 2008 From: john at mlce.net (John Dach) Date: Wed Apr 30 01:03:34 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California In-Reply-To: <509978.99833.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <509978.99833.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Apr 29, 2008, at 11:34 AM, Mr Byron Levenseller wrote: > This sounds interesting. When you say wild do you mean > we will need a 4wd to be able to get through or just > really interesting to see? Just really interesting. Paved road (but often pretty narrow,,,, not 2 lanes)t very passable. John Dach > > This is pretty much on our way to the lake so it has > some good possibilities. I'll see if I can Google the > place and get more info. > > Thanks for the suggestion, > > David > > > --- John Dach wrote: > >> One other thing that might interest you and your >> family, a tour of >> the Geyser Electrical Generation Plant near >> Geyserville (just N. of >> Healdsberg). Just the terrain is is pretty wild to >> drive through. >> Not much rock collection as far as I know but still >> interesting. >> >> John Dach >> On Apr 29, 2008, at 10:18 AM, Mr Byron Levenseller >> wrote: >> >>> Wow, thanks for all the info John!! We have been >> to >>> the Geyser place a few years ago and it was pretty >>> neat to see it. >>> >>> I already ordered the book suggested and will >> start >>> researching the the info you gave me. >>> >>> Thank you again, >>> >>> David >>> >>> --- John Dach wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> There is a lot of Obsidian in the Napa/Clearlake >>>> area. There is a >>>> small Geyser/petrified forest fee park in Napa, >> Lake >>>> county is known >>>> for herkamer "diamonds", Mendocino and Lake >> county >>>> have a good deal >>>> of jade to be found if you know what it looks >> like >>>> and where to go to >>>> look for it. The book suggested is a good start. >>>> We lived in >>>> Mendocino for 30+ years and did a bit of >> hounding. >>>> Most places are >>>> way off the road, on private land or miles of >> hiking >>>> (up) dirt >>>> "roads" (at least if we got stuff "up there" we >>>> carried it out >>>> downhill. Leech Lake Mountain in Lake county had >> an >>>> active jade mine >>>> for a number of years. One cannot go up to them >>>> mine but there was a >>>> lot of nice pieces of jade and "near" jade in the >>>> washes. This is >>>> the place requiring a long up hill walk. There >> is a >>>> rock shop >>>> between Cloverdale and Hopland on Hwy 101, might >> be >>>> good to stop and >>>> ask them if they have any ideas. There is a >> fellow >>>> in Anderson >>>> Valley (turn left to go to the mendocino Coast at >>>> the North end of >>>> Cloverdale and take hwy 128 to Philo (about 36 >>>> miles) and keep going >>>> to a wide spot in the road called Floodgate >> (cafe, >>>> realtor office, >>>> and the Rock Shop)) who has a claim in Trinity >>>> county for a Jade area >>>> and he has it on display, for sell in the shop. >>>> LOTS of other great >>>> specimens. He might be able to give you an idea >> of >>>> where to go. >>>> Sorry I don't have the fellows number of the >> actual >>>> name of the >>>> shop. If I can get the name/number of think of >>>> anything else, I will >>>> let you know. >>>> >>>> John Dach >>>> >>>> PS Being from the Dakotas and around a good deal >> of >>>> Indian History, >>>> the Pomo's were in the coastal areas and many of >> the >>>> towns and cities >>>> have information and displays about their living >>>> methods/actions and >>>> the like. Much different than the plains >> Indians. >>>> Check with the >>>> Chambers of Commerce in Boonville, Cloverdale, >> Santa >>>> Rosa and Ukiah >>>> and see what they have available. Napa, Sonoma, >>>> Clearlake and the >>>> like too. >>>> On Apr 29, 2008, at 6:17 AM, Mr Byron Levenseller >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi chuck, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the info, I'll track it down and >> take >>>> a >>>>> look. >>>>> >>>>> David >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>>> Subscription Services: >>>> >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage >>>> Policy: >>>> >>> >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > ______________________________________________________________________ >> >>> ______________ >>> Be a better friend, newshound, and >>> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. >> http:// >>> >> mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >>> -- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >>> Subscription Services: >>> >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >>> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage >> Policy: >>> >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List >> Subscription Services: >> http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds >> List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage >> Policy: >> > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html >> > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http:// > mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From john at mlce.net Wed Apr 30 01:14:19 2008 From: john at mlce.net (John Dach) Date: Wed Apr 30 01:18:13 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Looking for rock/gem hunting info for northern California In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20080429190142.03773010@orerockon.com> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20080429110907.0369cbe0@orerockon.com> <531366.66864.qm@web90406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20080429190142.03773010@orerockon.com> Message-ID: <2B7DB8CB-98A7-4C1B-955F-3A691978909E@mlce.net> Also as I replied earlier, there is obsidian material all over the place. There are a couple of "red rock" quarries the material actually a type of red pomace like material. It is used for road sanding (makes the roads reddish in the winter), and often in cinder block production (cement with the pomace as the aggregate and thus low weight blocks), rode base etc. Mt. Konictai is an extinct cinder cone. The whole area is pretty interesting, and the algae can stink and the Clear Lake nats spawning periods can be VERY different!! They gather around the lights and you can hear this very strange humming noise from the swarms. Can totally smear your windshield, make a mess of the grill of the car, and they have "that" Clear Lake nat smell. Only last a day or 2 but wild if you get in it. John Dach On Apr 29, 2008, at 7:04 PM, Tim Fisher wrote: > Both are in Gem Trails. Very near Clear Lake. Which I believe is in > an extinct volcanic caldera. So you get a bonus geological sight :) > If you get there soon the annual algae bloom won't have stunk up > the lake yet. > > At 11:40 AM 4/29/2008, you wrote: >> Those "diamonds" sound really interesting!! >> I wonder if they are anyplace else. >> >> The obsidian "quarry" looks like it might be an idea. >> We are really just interested in going out and having >> fun together and are not so concerned with the >> quality. It would just be fun for the kids to be able >> to say "look what I found" to their friends. >> >> Would you mind giving me the location for the >> "quarry" or will it be in the book I orderd? >> >> Thank you for all the help! >> >> >> >> --- Tim Fisher wrote: >> >> > The Clear Lake "diamonds" quartz crystals (which >> > have no relation to >> > nor do they look anything like the Herkimer quartz) >> > are on private >> > property, in an almond orchard. The obsidian >> > "quarry" is on the >> > county road and is easily accessible. The obsidian >> > is of generally >> > poor quality. >> > > > Tim Fisher > Ore-ROCK-On! > Email address at http://OreRockOn.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Apr 30 02:38:24 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 30 02:38:28 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Man in China In-Reply-To: References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501c8aaa5$efbb89b0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Hi Lyle, Nice to hear from you! Guess what? I met a very nice Chinese lady too on our annual mineral show. I know her from our previous show but this time we actually got to talk since I was there as a dealer for the first time. She had some breathtaking stuff in her shop but obviously she knew the current prices very well. I just made clear to her that I wanted some of the fluorescent calcite that she had (gorgeous) and that I intended to resell them BUT I would leave HER price tag on them, not to duck under her prices. She (spontaneously) said to handpick what I wanted. She the took out a little calculator, smiled and gave me a 42% discount. Cultural differences between western people and Chinese are enormous and sometimes bewildering but you're patient and try to understand why they do things differently, they will treat you nicer than your own family will. Now, you seem to be at the source of minerals that one day may be in my collection. Tell your mineral suppliers that we value a correct and complete locality of a mineral VERY highly. I recently saw (again) labels like "Scheelite, Hunan, China" My country ,Belgium, fits about 30 times in Hunan so we like to know the Mine, area, nearest town or city, county, province, nation. So, I guess that I'm sending you on a mission... It's (like suicide bombers say:) all about locality, locality, locality! I've left exquisite specimens that were ridiculously low priced lying on the table of the dealer because the label was incomplete. Cheers Axel Axel Emmermann European Regional Vice President of the Fluorescent Mineral Society ========================= Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent minerals Technische Realisaties/Engineering My website: > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Lyle Pai > Verzonden: woensdag 30 april 2008 8:54 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > Hello Everyone, > > As I'm brand spanking new to the list and not known to be a > shy person, let me jump in with both feet and see if I sink or swim... > > My name is Lyle Pai. I'm a Chinese American currently living > in Shanghai. I moved to Chicago in 1967 from Taiwan and grew > up in the Chicago suburbs. Went to Downers Grove South High > School (Go Mustangs!) and then went onto the University of > Chicago (Go Moroons!) where I graduated with a degree in > Economics. After school, I worked in the Financial Futures > markets in Chicago before being recruited by Citibank New > York to trade foreign exchange and fixed income securities. > After 4-5 years in New York, I moved to Hong Kong in 1986 > with Reuters PLC and have been in Greater China (HK, Taiwan, > Shanghai) ever since. After getting out of the banking > business about 5 years ago, I've been involved with real > estate investments in China and trading Chinese stocks. > > About six months ago, I met a lovely Chinese girl (actually a > lady) that I plan to marry (I know, I'm a real sucker for > punishment...). Anyway, long story short, my girlfriend is > involved in the mineral business in China so I've been on a > steep learning curve over the past few months on the whole > mineral business. Unfortunately, there are only so many hours > in a day... Luckily, I also had a chemistry background (my > mother wanted me to be a doctor, you know the story...) so > some of the nomenclature is not totally new to me... > > Anyway, I was reading the recent discussion on 'Chinese > crystals on Ebay' and noted the concerns of many on the > authenticity of some of the products coming out of China. I > understand that this problem is of grave concern to many > people around the world and as the old saying goes, CAVEAT > EMPTOR... I know it's hard for some of you to understand and > to accept that so many faked products are coming out of > China. You have to be here and watch the change that is > overtaking China to appreciate what's going on. I first > visited China with my parents in 1984. You should've seen it > then... and what I've seen over the past 24 years is nothing > short of astounding... China went from a third world country > to a global power in just over 1 generation... > > You can just imaging how fast the wealth discrepancies have > been growing here so it's understandable that there are many > who wish to get rich quickly, even if it is at the expense of > poor suckers like you and me... Just remember, Americans are > not above sucking the blood of their own and at the much > bigger scale. Just look at Enron and other examples of > corporate malfeasance over the past 30 years... I'm not > trying to excuse the fraud but just giving you the subtext of > what's been happening here from someone who has watched it up > close for the past 20+ years... > > Anyway, I know this is getting long so I'll get to my pitch > before you guys fall asleep. I've visited several of the > markets in China including those that sell crystals. I've > seen some amazing things and plan to get into the mineral > collecting business over time. As I'm new to the business, > I'm proceeding cautiously. I see that the internet is the way > to go but again, I'm learning to crawl before I start to walk. > > In short, I would be very interested in working with any > number of yous to source the stones, minerals, crystals that > you need from China. I need knowledge (like how to > distinguish between real and fake crystals, etc) and > experience that many of you can provide. In return, I get you > what you want or need at a reasonable price plus reasonable > shipping cost. I can ship (via ocean freight) to Chicago > where my family still lives and then ship out by UPS ground > at a much cheaper rate than what they offer on Ebay. Of > course, this takes longer than EMS shipments but can be done > at a much lower cost...ALSO, I need to make some money doing > this... but I'll guarantee you that you get exactly what you > paid for, not some fake replica...AND, of cause, I can > communicate fluently in English so things don't get mixed in > translation... > > Interested parties are welcome to contact me. I have a US > phone number: (630) 214-9727 that you can call me on and I > pick up in Shanghai... Just remember, I'm on the opposite > side of the planet from you so 13:00 CST is 02:00 here in > Shanghai. Please don't call me in your afternoons, I'm > sleeping. I can be reached here all through your evenings and > into the mornings. If I'm not in the office, the calls jump > to my cell phone and you're paying international cellular > rates (which can be expensive) ... so before you want to hear > my pleasant voice, please drop me an email: lpai@hotmail.com > and let me know what you would like to do. As some of you > already know, exporting real fossils is illegal so I won't do > that. Otherwise, anything goes. China has an abundance of > rocks and minerals and they're not above selling the roof off > their house... > > I will be in Tucson next year for the show so hope to see > some of yous in person then. I will be going to Sainte-Marie > and Munich this year so if any of yous attend those shows, > please contact me and let's have a beer together. > > I know that many of yous are already buying and selling > stones from China and here comes this newbie to increase the > competition.... My goals are simple: I like what I see and I > can see there's money to be made in collecting and trading > good stuff. Most of the good stuff is held by American or > European collectors. However, there is growing interest by > Chinese collectors and before soon, some of the Chinese > collectors will join the world ranks... I've seen some > collections already that would make your mouth water... One > of these days, they'll have an international show like Tucson > here in China and you guys get to come over and see for > yourself... I'll be welcoming you and showing off my > collection then... > > My sincere thanks for your patience and kindest regards from > Shanghai... > > Lyle > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From lpai at hotmail.com Wed Apr 30 05:01:18 2008 From: lpai at hotmail.com (Lyle Pai) Date: Wed Apr 30 05:01:29 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Man in China References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001501c8aaa5$efbb89b0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: Dear Axel, Thank you for your email. I understand the need for collectors to have precise information about the source location for the minerals they collect and I will endeavour to get as much information as I can. However, I must warn that this can be difficult sometimes. The market on the ground here is quite fragmented and most dealers don't like to divulge their source(s). If it comes from established mines then it's easier to get the information but there are a lot of new mines that are being opened with private money and they don't like to divulge the location of their mine(s). For example, I recently picked up some Schorl and Quartz from a guy who had spent 7 months digging for them and he's not going to tell anyone where the mine is... I'm particularly attracted to Schorl for some reason... and he had some very nice pieces... Also, a lot of the dealers were just poor peasants a few years ago and cared little about the details of what they were buying and selling. Of course, this is slowly changing as more and more money enters this business. The guys who got into this business 5-10 years ago when Chinese minerals started showing up in international markets in a big way are among the nouveau riche of China... By the way, I'm trying to put together a list of the mines in China using Google Earth which I thought was a fun project to do. I don't know if anyone has done this for mines in other countries. I plan to visit some of the mines myself but I understand some are quite inaccessible. I will record as much as possible and upload them onto my future website and also Google Earth's Panaramio photo service which I think will be a most interesting thing for international collectors to see (by satellite) exactly where their collection comes from. Anyway, if anyone has information they're willing to share... Thanks again for your comments Axel and I will keep them in mind. I will label all my speciments with great detail and sell them at ridiculously high prices...Just kidding... With kind regards, Lyle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:38 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Man in China > Hi Lyle, > > Nice to hear from you! > > Guess what? I met a very nice Chinese lady too on our annual mineral show. I > know her from our previous show but this time we actually got to talk since > I was there as a dealer for the first time. > She had some breathtaking stuff in her shop but obviously she knew the > current prices very well. > I just made clear to her that I wanted some of the fluorescent calcite that > she had (gorgeous) and that I intended to resell them BUT I would leave HER > price tag on them, not to duck under her prices. > She (spontaneously) said to handpick what I wanted. She the took out a > little calculator, smiled and gave me a 42% discount. > Cultural differences between western people and Chinese are enormous and > sometimes bewildering but you're patient and try to understand why they do > things differently, they will treat you nicer than your own family will. > > Now, you seem to be at the source of minerals that one day may be in my > collection. Tell your mineral suppliers that we value a correct and complete > locality of a mineral VERY highly. > I recently saw (again) labels like "Scheelite, Hunan, China" > My country ,Belgium, fits about 30 times in Hunan so we like to know the > Mine, area, nearest town or city, county, province, nation. > So, I guess that I'm sending you on a mission... It's (like suicide bombers > say:) all about locality, locality, locality! > I've left exquisite specimens that were ridiculously low priced lying on the > table of the dealer because the label was incomplete. > > Cheers > Axel > Axel Emmermann > European Regional Vice President of the > Fluorescent Mineral Society > > ========================= > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society > > Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent > minerals > Technische Realisaties/Engineering > My website: > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Lyle Pai > > Verzonden: woensdag 30 april 2008 8:54 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > As I'm brand spanking new to the list and not known to be a > > shy person, let me jump in with both feet and see if I sink or swim... > > > > My name is Lyle Pai. I'm a Chinese American currently living > > in Shanghai. I moved to Chicago in 1967 from Taiwan and grew > > up in the Chicago suburbs. Went to Downers Grove South High > > School (Go Mustangs!) and then went onto the University of > > Chicago (Go Moroons!) where I graduated with a degree in > > Economics. After school, I worked in the Financial Futures > > markets in Chicago before being recruited by Citibank New > > York to trade foreign exchange and fixed income securities. > > After 4-5 years in New York, I moved to Hong Kong in 1986 > > with Reuters PLC and have been in Greater China (HK, Taiwan, > > Shanghai) ever since. After getting out of the banking > > business about 5 years ago, I've been involved with real > > estate investments in China and trading Chinese stocks. > > > > About six months ago, I met a lovely Chinese girl (actually a > > lady) that I plan to marry (I know, I'm a real sucker for > > punishment...). Anyway, long story short, my girlfriend is > > involved in the mineral business in China so I've been on a > > steep learning curve over the past few months on the whole > > mineral business. Unfortunately, there are only so many hours > > in a day... Luckily, I also had a chemistry background (my > > mother wanted me to be a doctor, you know the story...) so > > some of the nomenclature is not totally new to me... > > > > Anyway, I was reading the recent discussion on 'Chinese > > crystals on Ebay' and noted the concerns of many on the > > authenticity of some of the products coming out of China. I > > understand that this problem is of grave concern to many > > people around the world and as the old saying goes, CAVEAT > > EMPTOR... I know it's hard for some of you to understand and > > to accept that so many faked products are coming out of > > China. You have to be here and watch the change that is > > overtaking China to appreciate what's going on. I first > > visited China with my parents in 1984. You should've seen it > > then... and what I've seen over the past 24 years is nothing > > short of astounding... China went from a third world country > > to a global power in just over 1 generation... > > > > You can just imaging how fast the wealth discrepancies have > > been growing here so it's understandable that there are many > > who wish to get rich quickly, even if it is at the expense of > > poor suckers like you and me... Just remember, Americans are > > not above sucking the blood of their own and at the much > > bigger scale. Just look at Enron and other examples of > > corporate malfeasance over the past 30 years... I'm not > > trying to excuse the fraud but just giving you the subtext of > > what's been happening here from someone who has watched it up > > close for the past 20+ years... > > > > Anyway, I know this is getting long so I'll get to my pitch > > before you guys fall asleep. I've visited several of the > > markets in China including those that sell crystals. I've > > seen some amazing things and plan to get into the mineral > > collecting business over time. As I'm new to the business, > > I'm proceeding cautiously. I see that the internet is the way > > to go but again, I'm learning to crawl before I start to walk. > > > > In short, I would be very interested in working with any > > number of yous to source the stones, minerals, crystals that > > you need from China. I need knowledge (like how to > > distinguish between real and fake crystals, etc) and > > experience that many of you can provide. In return, I get you > > what you want or need at a reasonable price plus reasonable > > shipping cost. I can ship (via ocean freight) to Chicago > > where my family still lives and then ship out by UPS ground > > at a much cheaper rate than what they offer on Ebay. Of > > course, this takes longer than EMS shipments but can be done > > at a much lower cost...ALSO, I need to make some money doing > > this... but I'll guarantee you that you get exactly what you > > paid for, not some fake replica...AND, of cause, I can > > communicate fluently in English so things don't get mixed in > > translation... > > > > Interested parties are welcome to contact me. I have a US > > phone number: (630) 214-9727 that you can call me on and I > > pick up in Shanghai... Just remember, I'm on the opposite > > side of the planet from you so 13:00 CST is 02:00 here in > > Shanghai. Please don't call me in your afternoons, I'm > > sleeping. I can be reached here all through your evenings and > > into the mornings. If I'm not in the office, the calls jump > > to my cell phone and you're paying international cellular > > rates (which can be expensive) ... so before you want to hear > > my pleasant voice, please drop me an email: lpai@hotmail.com > > and let me know what you would like to do. As some of you > > already know, exporting real fossils is illegal so I won't do > > that. Otherwise, anything goes. China has an abundance of > > rocks and minerals and they're not above selling the roof off > > their house... > > > > I will be in Tucson next year for the show so hope to see > > some of yous in person then. I will be going to Sainte-Marie > > and Munich this year so if any of yous attend those shows, > > please contact me and let's have a beer together. > > > > I know that many of yous are already buying and selling > > stones from China and here comes this newbie to increase the > > competition.... My goals are simple: I like what I see and I > > can see there's money to be made in collecting and trading > > good stuff. Most of the good stuff is held by American or > > European collectors. However, there is growing interest by > > Chinese collectors and before soon, some of the Chinese > > collectors will join the world ranks... I've seen some > > collections already that would make your mouth water... One > > of these days, they'll have an international show like Tucson > > here in China and you guys get to come over and see for > > yourself... I'll be welcoming you and showing off my > > collection then... > > > > My sincere thanks for your patience and kindest regards from > > Shanghai... > > > > Lyle > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From Ted at crystalgems.com Wed Apr 30 05:36:52 2008 From: Ted at crystalgems.com (Ted Kowalski) Date: Wed Apr 30 05:37:03 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Man in China In-Reply-To: References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009301c8aabe$de378db0$0400a8c0@LaptopLand1> Lyle Pai: Welcome to Rockhounds! I wish you good luck and health on your life and mineral journey. You said quite a mouthful; not that this is bad, but please understand you've asked for and told us quite a lot. Which means you could get lots of answers/inquiries, but not necessarily the one you want. In my reply, I'll focus on your learning curve and fake/real statement. Some thoughts: Subscribe to several of the better mineral/gemology magazines. In a hurry? Hit the magazine website and order back issues that have articles relating to the knowledge you want. In case you don't already know there are several online mineral publications. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I put those links; but perhaps someone else on Rockhounds can provide them. Some magazines I like: Gems & Gemology (GIA publication) http://www.gia.edu/gemsandgemology/70/section_main_page.cfm Extralapis: http://www.extralapis.de/englisch1_9.htm The Mineralogical Record: http://www.minrec.org/contents.asp Rocks and Minerals: http://www.rocksandminerals.org/ Salutations and good health, Ted Kowalski Fredericksburg, VA USA -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lyle Pai Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:54 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: [Rockhounds] Man in China Hello Everyone, As I'm brand spanking new to the list and not known to be a shy person, let me jump in with both feet and see if I sink or swim... -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From Pmodreski at aol.com Wed Apr 30 06:04:39 2008 From: Pmodreski at aol.com (Pmodreski@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 30 06:04:45 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay Message-ID: I've been trying to catch up and read all these posts about fake quartz crystals, etc. I agree that quartz crystals that have been polished and "improved" that way are what one is most likely to see. Synthetic quartz crystals tend to be shaped quite a bit different, and "casting" crystals out of molten silica is, I think, not a feasible or likely procedure--fused quartz requires an inconveniently high temperature, and molten silica would be very viscous, not at all easy to pour and mold; fused silica laboratory ware is made, but it is quite expensive. I think that most collectors have little trouble distinguishing natural crystals from ones that have been shaped & polished. "Beginners" may not, but I suppose they will learn quickly, and I suppose that much of the market for "enhanced" crystals is probably for people who really don't care if it's a natural crystal or not, they just want "a crystal" for their own aesthetic or metaphysical interests... I know the Chinese? sunstone question has been debated on this list before. It seems that there's been no positive information about whether or not there really is a producing sunstone locality in China; but, there also seems to be no knowledge of whether there is any possible way to treat Oregon or Mexican sunstone to enhance the color. Given the nature & properties of plagioclase feldspar, I rather doubt that there's any way to turn straw-colored feldspar to orange-red; so that any deep-colored stones, really are likely to be natural ones, from China. [Hope I haven't missed any key posts that relate to any of this!] Pete Modreski **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From everbeek at sterlinghillminingmuseum.org Wed Apr 30 06:10:33 2008 From: everbeek at sterlinghillminingmuseum.org (Earl R. Verbeek) Date: Wed Apr 30 06:10:27 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Man in China In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000701c8aac3$92b6fe70$2101a8c0@sterling88d31e> Hello Lyle, Thank you for your helpful comments -- and good luck in your future endeavors. I love your idea of documenting the mines in China and sharing knowledge and photos of them with the rest of the world via the Internet. Even though I lean more toward being a luddite than a geek (the world moves too quickly for me), I must admit: the Internet rules! I'm on it quite a bit, finding and devouring information that in past years would have taken much more time to acquire. Axel is right that many collectors will decline to purchase a specimen with little or no locality information. For one thing, the lack of a locality removes much of the scientific value of the piece. For another, a piece with no locality "anchor" has nothing to relate it to -- we can't read about the locality, learn its geology and history, etc., so all we've got is the specimen itself. Collectors and mineral dealers can hide as much locality information as they want as long as they know that (a) they're reducing the size of their own market, and (b) they're impeding knowledge and documentation of their own country's mineralogy. That said, I recognize that there are sometimes valid reasons for withholding locality information, and I sympathize with them. The condition of a mineral is quite important, too, for many U.S. and European collectors will not purchase a specimen if it is damaged. The amounts of "allowable" damage vary from one collector to another, but in practice it can be said that if the damage is conspicuous the value of the specimen is much diminished. It sometimes takes years for the word to get back to the one or two people working a new deposit that they could make a lot more money if they took more care in collecting and packing their specimens. I've seen many thousands of poorly collected, packed, transported, and labeled specimens over the years and watched as they just sat there, nobody buying them, during mineral shows. Another suggestion if ever you decide to sell at shows: Put the prices on the specimens or the specimen labels! If a dealer doesn't even care enough to price his specimens, why would a potential buyer care enough to buy one? It's a hassle to always have to inquire about specimens, to wait until the dealer is finished talking to someone else, etc. Not having prices on specimens also raises suspicion that the quoted price is different for different people, and that's a real turn-off in any business. So, about the worst thing that one can do is to have damaged, uncleaned, unlabeled minerals put haphazardly on tables and expect mineral collectors to buy them -- yet that's exactly what I see at many mineral shows. Thus, in the interests of helping the many people in China who are now getting into the mineral specimen market, please help them as much as you can in telling them what works, and what doesn't, when those specimens are offered at mineral shows or on eBay. Their profits might be much better as a result. Thanks for all you're doing over there.... Cheers- Earl Verbeek ---------------------------------------------------- Dr. Earl R. Verbeek Resident Geologist Sterling Hill Mining Museum P: 973-209-7212 F: 973-209-8505 E: shmm@ptd.net -----Original Message----- From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lyle Pai Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:01 AM To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Man in China Dear Axel, Thank you for your email. I understand the need for collectors to have precise information about the source location for the minerals they collect and I will endeavour to get as much information as I can. However, I must warn that this can be difficult sometimes. The market on the ground here is quite fragmented and most dealers don't like to divulge their source(s). If it comes from established mines then it's easier to get the information but there are a lot of new mines that are being opened with private money and they don't like to divulge the location of their mine(s). For example, I recently picked up some Schorl and Quartz from a guy who had spent 7 months digging for them and he's not going to tell anyone where the mine is... I'm particularly attracted to Schorl for some reason... and he had some very nice pieces... Also, a lot of the dealers were just poor peasants a few years ago and cared little about the details of what they were buying and selling. Of course, this is slowly changing as more and more money enters this business. The guys who got into this business 5-10 years ago when Chinese minerals started showing up in international markets in a big way are among the nouveau riche of China... By the way, I'm trying to put together a list of the mines in China using Google Earth which I thought was a fun project to do. I don't know if anyone has done this for mines in other countries. I plan to visit some of the mines myself but I understand some are quite inaccessible. I will record as much as possible and upload them onto my future website and also Google Earth's Panaramio photo service which I think will be a most interesting thing for international collectors to see (by satellite) exactly where their collection comes from. Anyway, if anyone has information they're willing to share... Thanks again for your comments Axel and I will keep them in mind. I will label all my speciments with great detail and sell them at ridiculously high prices...Just kidding... With kind regards, Lyle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:38 PM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Man in China > Hi Lyle, > > Nice to hear from you! > > Guess what? I met a very nice Chinese lady too on our annual mineral show. I > know her from our previous show but this time we actually got to talk since > I was there as a dealer for the first time. > She had some breathtaking stuff in her shop but obviously she knew the > current prices very well. > I just made clear to her that I wanted some of the fluorescent calcite that > she had (gorgeous) and that I intended to resell them BUT I would leave HER > price tag on them, not to duck under her prices. > She (spontaneously) said to handpick what I wanted. She the took out a > little calculator, smiled and gave me a 42% discount. > Cultural differences between western people and Chinese are enormous and > sometimes bewildering but you're patient and try to understand why they do > things differently, they will treat you nicer than your own family will. > > Now, you seem to be at the source of minerals that one day may be in my > collection. Tell your mineral suppliers that we value a correct and complete > locality of a mineral VERY highly. > I recently saw (again) labels like "Scheelite, Hunan, China" > My country ,Belgium, fits about 30 times in Hunan so we like to know the > Mine, area, nearest town or city, county, province, nation. > So, I guess that I'm sending you on a mission... It's (like suicide bombers > say:) all about locality, locality, locality! > I've left exquisite specimens that were ridiculously low priced lying on the > table of the dealer because the label was incomplete. > > Cheers > Axel > Axel Emmermann > European Regional Vice President of the > Fluorescent Mineral Society > > ========================= > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society > > Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende mineralen/Fluorescent > minerals > Technische Realisaties/Engineering > My website: > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Lyle Pai > > Verzonden: woensdag 30 april 2008 8:54 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > As I'm brand spanking new to the list and not known to be a > > shy person, let me jump in with both feet and see if I sink or swim... > > > > My name is Lyle Pai. I'm a Chinese American currently living > > in Shanghai. I moved to Chicago in 1967 from Taiwan and grew > > up in the Chicago suburbs. Went to Downers Grove South High > > School (Go Mustangs!) and then went onto the University of > > Chicago (Go Moroons!) where I graduated with a degree in > > Economics. After school, I worked in the Financial Futures > > markets in Chicago before being recruited by Citibank New > > York to trade foreign exchange and fixed income securities. > > After 4-5 years in New York, I moved to Hong Kong in 1986 > > with Reuters PLC and have been in Greater China (HK, Taiwan, > > Shanghai) ever since. After getting out of the banking > > business about 5 years ago, I've been involved with real > > estate investments in China and trading Chinese stocks. > > > > About six months ago, I met a lovely Chinese girl (actually a > > lady) that I plan to marry (I know, I'm a real sucker for > > punishment...). Anyway, long story short, my girlfriend is > > involved in the mineral business in China so I've been on a > > steep learning curve over the past few months on the whole > > mineral business. Unfortunately, there are only so many hours > > in a day... Luckily, I also had a chemistry background (my > > mother wanted me to be a doctor, you know the story...) so > > some of the nomenclature is not totally new to me... > > > > Anyway, I was reading the recent discussion on 'Chinese > > crystals on Ebay' and noted the concerns of many on the > > authenticity of some of the products coming out of China. I > > understand that this problem is of grave concern to many > > people around the world and as the old saying goes, CAVEAT > > EMPTOR... I know it's hard for some of you to understand and > > to accept that so many faked products are coming out of > > China. You have to be here and watch the change that is > > overtaking China to appreciate what's going on. I first > > visited China with my parents in 1984. You should've seen it > > then... and what I've seen over the past 24 years is nothing > > short of astounding... China went from a third world country > > to a global power in just over 1 generation... > > > > You can just imaging how fast the wealth discrepancies have > > been growing here so it's understandable that there are many > > who wish to get rich quickly, even if it is at the expense of > > poor suckers like you and me... Just remember, Americans are > > not above sucking the blood of their own and at the much > > bigger scale. Just look at Enron and other examples of > > corporate malfeasance over the past 30 years... I'm not > > trying to excuse the fraud but just giving you the subtext of > > what's been happening here from someone who has watched it up > > close for the past 20+ years... > > > > Anyway, I know this is getting long so I'll get to my pitch > > before you guys fall asleep. I've visited several of the > > markets in China including those that sell crystals. I've > > seen some amazing things and plan to get into the mineral > > collecting business over time. As I'm new to the business, > > I'm proceeding cautiously. I see that the internet is the way > > to go but again, I'm learning to crawl before I start to walk. > > > > In short, I would be very interested in working with any > > number of yous to source the stones, minerals, crystals that > > you need from China. I need knowledge (like how to > > distinguish between real and fake crystals, etc) and > > experience that many of you can provide. In return, I get you > > what you want or need at a reasonable price plus reasonable > > shipping cost. I can ship (via ocean freight) to Chicago > > where my family still lives and then ship out by UPS ground > > at a much cheaper rate than what they offer on Ebay. Of > > course, this takes longer than EMS shipments but can be done > > at a much lower cost...ALSO, I need to make some money doing > > this... but I'll guarantee you that you get exactly what you > > paid for, not some fake replica...AND, of cause, I can > > communicate fluently in English so things don't get mixed in > > translation... > > > > Interested parties are welcome to contact me. I have a US > > phone number: (630) 214-9727 that you can call me on and I > > pick up in Shanghai... Just remember, I'm on the opposite > > side of the planet from you so 13:00 CST is 02:00 here in > > Shanghai. Please don't call me in your afternoons, I'm > > sleeping. I can be reached here all through your evenings and > > into the mornings. If I'm not in the office, the calls jump > > to my cell phone and you're paying international cellular > > rates (which can be expensive) ... so before you want to hear > > my pleasant voice, please drop me an email: lpai@hotmail.com > > and let me know what you would like to do. As some of you > > already know, exporting real fossils is illegal so I won't do > > that. Otherwise, anything goes. China has an abundance of > > rocks and minerals and they're not above selling the roof off > > their house... > > > > I will be in Tucson next year for the show so hope to see > > some of yous in person then. I will be going to Sainte-Marie > > and Munich this year so if any of yous attend those shows, > > please contact me and let's have a beer together. > > > > I know that many of yous are already buying and selling > > stones from China and here comes this newbie to increase the > > competition.... My goals are simple: I like what I see and I > > can see there's money to be made in collecting and trading > > good stuff. Most of the good stuff is held by American or > > European collectors. However, there is growing interest by > > Chinese collectors and before soon, some of the Chinese > > collectors will join the world ranks... I've seen some > > collections already that would make your mouth water... One > > of these days, they'll have an international show like Tucson > > here in China and you guys get to come over and see for > > yourself... I'll be welcoming you and showing off my > > collection then... > > > > My sincere thanks for your patience and kindest regards from > > Shanghai... > > > > Lyle > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.6/1404 - Release Date: 4/29/2008 6:27 PM --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From miolson47 at hotmail.com Wed Apr 30 06:47:14 2008 From: miolson47 at hotmail.com (marilyn olson) Date: Wed Apr 30 06:47:17 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] massachusetts In-Reply-To: References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001501c8aaa5$efbb89b0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: does anyone have any information about specific rock collecting sites in Massachusetts??? thanks Marilyn _________________________________________________________________ Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From crystalelf228 at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 07:30:29 2008 From: crystalelf228 at gmail.com (crystalelf-Gmail) Date: Wed Apr 30 07:30:40 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay References: <48177923.8020501@arczip.com> Message-ID: <008f01c8aace$c0b60b80$0100a8c0@SRCbase> Hi friends, First of all I stated that I am an eBay seller selling chinese minerals. To distinguish a natural quartz point from a synthetic one is quite easy. First look at its shape, if you found that the crystal is very symmetry, with very good geommetrical points, surface is very flat (mirror flat! ) with little or no growth line , then it is possibly polished stone (natural quartz has parallel growth lines, please refer to any mineralogy books for detail). Then look at the inclusion, usually people said if the quartz seem to be flawless then it is synthetic, but I know a lot of natural brazilian quartz are imported into China as carving material. Sometimes an included quartz maybe synthetic ( due to faulty growth program or the manufacturer deliberately introduce them to make their products look "real") but they are very difficult to check, however their price can tell (natural clear quartz is very very expensive! impossible to sell at $0.99) Sometimes if there is a closeup photo of the tips, you may see the face of the tip parallel to the layered inclusion ( so-called "Phantom" ), then the xls is most probably real. Also look at the edge, if the edge is somewhat rounded it is possibly done by Chinese facet machine . However I've seen brazilian faceted quartz stone shows very sharp edge! Then look at the color. For any crystals that have odd green / yellow / deep purple / orange color they are probably artificial. These color are usually very bright (neon) and attractive. Everything looks perfect and cheap is a hint of artificial products. I would also like to express my feeling on mineral marking in China. As far as I know, most mineral dealers in China now realized the importance of preservation or specimens and detailed locality information. However due to the lack of technology and training of miners, most valuable specimens are ruined. I have seen a lot of Yaogangxian mine material being badly extracted (they have to use explosive, which ruined a lot of specimens before they discover the pocket). For the labelling issue, some dealers are still reluctant to provide full detailed locality information ( I even encountered a supplier deliberately inform me a false locality ). They have to do that because of : i) they want to monopolize the find; ii) they want to avoid theft; iii) avoid the eyes of the government ( some mines are illegal ) Now I am still keep learning new knowledge from the reputable dealers and friends in China. You don't know when will new minerals pops out and new artificial material go into the market. This not only apply on Chinese minerals but worldwide ( When I start collecting I also got a piece of Poland man-made Alum, a cluster of Aqua Aura from Arkansas, and a stunning man-made malachite stalactite from Congo... ). Mindat is a very good source of reliable information and Justin have done a great website of conterfeit material. Perhaps subscribers like you and me can swap information in here. I would like to stated that most of the Chinese dealers are honest people. However if you look at a specimen that is not comfortable with it, simply dont purchase it, or just purchase it for fun, for "education purpose" or just to keep a piece of "artificial sample". Hope these information can help. Cheers, SK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:38 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay > Friends: If you get on E-bay, input quartz crystals in the search > feature you will come up with a whole BUNCH of hits. Many of them are > big, very nice and very cheap. You can tell the Chinese crystals because > most are being held in a person's hand with an outdoors background. Has > anyone ever bought these or have any ideas or feed back as far as quality, > buying safety, etc? Thanks? > Chuck Baran > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com Wed Apr 30 07:36:37 2008 From: gbrown at catspaw-minerals.com (Gary Brown) Date: Wed Apr 30 07:35:55 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Man in China In-Reply-To: References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com><001501c8aaa5$efbb89b0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <022901c8aacf$98f40420$6601a8c0@okapi> Lyle: Having a location is the difference between having a "pretty rock" and a "mineral specimen". Having a location is also the difference in mineral from one spot, say Willemite from Franklin, NJ where it is common to Willemite from somewhere else, where it is rare. Mis-labeling of location is a common way of jacking up the price. Mind you, most collectors will look at something with an add location and say "no way that came from there". Bottom line (Aren't you glad you know vernacular English? Don't you miss the DuPage river?), the digger may not want to tell the location, but they are going to leave money on the table if they don't reveal it. Gary Brown http://www.catspaw-minerals.com Home of the MasMils/PLUS Mine Location Disk > -----Original Message----- > From: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] On Behalf Of Lyle Pai > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 7:01 AM > To: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors > Subject: Re: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > Dear Axel, > > Thank you for your email. > > > For example, I recently picked up some Schorl and Quartz from > a guy who had spent 7 months digging for them and he's not > going to tell anyone where the mine is... I'm particularly > attracted to Schorl for some reason... and he had some very > nice pieces... > > With kind regards, > Lyle From rpr at heidelberg.edu Wed Apr 30 09:38:42 2008 From: rpr at heidelberg.edu (R. Peter Richards) Date: Wed Apr 30 09:38:46 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Extracting Herkimer diamonds video In-Reply-To: <000f01c863f2$ce841fe0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> References: <47A1533D.6050303@verizon.net> <000f01c863f2$ce841fe0$6501a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <4EDA67AC-A7CF-46BE-9503-69C6FF4C180B@heidelberg.edu> I just found out about a short video on extracting Herkimer diamonds, posted at the Rocks & Minerals website. It's at least a good tease. Check it out. Pete Richards "Go to [their] web page, www.rocksandminerals.org, and click on "video extra" under the Herkimer article listing on the table of contents." --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From crystalelf228 at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 09:43:54 2008 From: crystalelf228 at gmail.com (operator crystalelf) Date: Wed Apr 30 09:43:57 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay Message-ID: <95e262e00804300943q2d8d9babx2c2e8104f0564695@mail.gmail.com> Hi friends, First of all I stated that I am an eBay seller selling chinese minerals. To distinguish a natural quartz point from a synthetic one is quite easy. First look at its shape, if you found that the crystal is very symmetry, with very good geommetrical points, surface is very flat (mirror flat! ) with little or no growth line , then it is possibly polished stone (natural quartz has parallel growth lines, please refer to any mineralogy books for detail). Then look at the inclusion, usually people said if the quartz seem to be flawless then it is synthetic, but I know a lot of natural brazilian quartz are imported into China as carving material. Sometimes an included quartz maybe synthetic ( due to faulty growth program or the manufacturer deliberately introduce them to make their products look "real") but they are very difficult to check, however their price can tell (natural clear quartz is very very expensive! impossible to sell at $0.99) Sometimes if there is a closeup photo of the tips, you may see the face of the tip parallel to the layered inclusion ( so-called "Phantom" ), then the xls is most probably real. Also look at the edge, if the edge is somewhat rounded it is possibly done by Chinese facet machine . However I've seen brazilian faceted quartz stone shows very sharp edge! Then look at the color. For any crystals that have odd green / yellow / deep purple / orange color they are probably artificial. These color are usually very bright (neon) and attractive. Everything looks perfect and cheap is a hint of artificial products. I would also like to express my feeling on mineral marking in China. As far as I know, most mineral dealers in China now realized the importance of preservation or specimens and detailed locality information. However due to the lack of technology and training of miners, most valuable specimens are ruined. I have seen a lot of Yaogangxian mine material being badly extracted (they have to use explosive, which ruined a lot of specimens before they discover the pocket). For the labelling issue, some dealers are still reluctant to provide full detailed locality information ( I even encountered a supplier deliberately inform me a false locality ). They have to do that because of : i) they want to monopolize the find; ii) they want to avoid theft; iii) avoid the eyes of the government ( some mines are illegal ) Now I am still keep learning new knowledge from the reputable dealers and friends in China. You don't know when will new minerals pops out and new artificial material go into the market. This not only apply on Chinese minerals but worldwide ( When I start collecting I also got a piece of Poland man-made Alum, a cluster of Aqua Aura from Arkansas, and a stunning man-made malachite stalactite from Congo... ). Mindat is a very good source of reliable information and Justin have done a great website of conterfeit material. Perhaps subscribers like you and me can swap information in here. I would like to stated that most of the Chinese dealers are honest people. However if you look at a specimen that is not comfortable with it, simply dont purchase it, or just purchase it for fun, for "education purpose" or just to keep a piece of "artificial sample". Hope these information can help. Cheers, SK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Baran" To: "Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors" Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:38 AM Subject: [Rockhounds] Chinese Crystals on E-Bay > Friends: If you get on E-bay, input quartz crystals in the search > feature you will come up with a whole BUNCH of hits. Many of them are > big, very nice and very cheap. You can tell the Chinese crystals because > most are being held in a person's hand with an outdoors background. Has > anyone ever bought these or have any ideas or feed back as far as quality, > buying safety, etc? Thanks? > Chuck Baran > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Apr 30 12:49:37 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 30 12:49:35 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Man in China In-Reply-To: References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com><001501c8aaa5$efbb89b0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <00bf01c8aafb$524d4cd0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Lyle, Something along this lines? http://flickr.com/photos/22753159@N04/map/ I use the FlickR site quite a lot and it is a good tool to share visual information! Axel > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Lyle Pai > Verzonden: woensdag 30 april 2008 13:01 > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > Dear Axel, > > Thank you for your email. > > I understand the need for collectors to have precise > information about the source location for the minerals they > collect and I will endeavour to get as much information as I > can. However, I must warn that this can be difficult > sometimes. The market on the ground here is quite fragmented > and most dealers don't like to divulge their source(s). If it > comes from established mines then it's easier to get the > information but there are a lot of new mines that are being > opened with private money and they don't like to divulge the > location of their mine(s). > > For example, I recently picked up some Schorl and Quartz from > a guy who had spent 7 months digging for them and he's not > going to tell anyone where the mine is... I'm particularly > attracted to Schorl for some reason... and he had some very > nice pieces... > > Also, a lot of the dealers were just poor peasants a few > years ago and cared little about the details of what they > were buying and selling. Of course, this is slowly changing > as more and more money enters this business. The guys who got > into this business 5-10 years ago when Chinese minerals > started showing up in international markets in a big way are > among the nouveau riche of China... > > By the way, I'm trying to put together a list of the mines in > China using Google Earth which I thought was a fun project to > do. I don't know if anyone has done this for mines in other > countries. I plan to visit some of the mines myself but I > understand some are quite inaccessible. I will record as much > as possible and upload them onto my future website and also > Google Earth's Panaramio photo service which I think will be > a most interesting thing for international collectors to see > (by satellite) exactly where their collection comes from. > > Anyway, if anyone has information they're willing to share... > > Thanks again for your comments Axel and I will keep them in > mind. I will label all my speciments with great detail and > sell them at ridiculously high prices...Just kidding... > > With kind regards, > Lyle > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Axel Emmermann" > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > collectors'" > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:38 PM > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > > > Hi Lyle, > > > > Nice to hear from you! > > > > Guess what? I met a very nice Chinese lady too on our > annual mineral show. I > > know her from our previous show but this time we actually > got to talk since > > I was there as a dealer for the first time. > > She had some breathtaking stuff in her shop but obviously > she knew the > > current prices very well. > > I just made clear to her that I wanted some of the > fluorescent calcite that > > she had (gorgeous) and that I intended to resell them BUT I > would leave HER > > price tag on them, not to duck under her prices. > > She (spontaneously) said to handpick what I wanted. She the > took out a > > little calculator, smiled and gave me a 42% discount. > > Cultural differences between western people and Chinese are > enormous and > > sometimes bewildering but you're patient and try to > understand why they do > > things differently, they will treat you nicer than your own > family will. > > > > Now, you seem to be at the source of minerals that one day > may be in my > > collection. Tell your mineral suppliers that we value a > correct and complete > > locality of a mineral VERY highly. > > I recently saw (again) labels like "Scheelite, Hunan, China" > > My country ,Belgium, fits about 30 times in Hunan so we > like to know the > > Mine, area, nearest town or city, county, province, nation. > > So, I guess that I'm sending you on a mission... It's (like > suicide bombers > > say:) all about locality, locality, locality! > > I've left exquisite specimens that were ridiculously low > priced lying on the > > table of the dealer because the label was incomplete. > > > > Cheers > > Axel > > Axel Emmermann > > European Regional Vice President of the > > Fluorescent Mineral Society > > > > ========================= > > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society > > > > Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende > mineralen/Fluorescent > > minerals > > Technische Realisaties/Engineering > > My website: > > > > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Lyle Pai > > > Verzonden: woensdag 30 april 2008 8:54 > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > collectors > > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > As I'm brand spanking new to the list and not known to be a > > > shy person, let me jump in with both feet and see if I > sink or swim... > > > > > > My name is Lyle Pai. I'm a Chinese American currently living > > > in Shanghai. I moved to Chicago in 1967 from Taiwan and grew > > > up in the Chicago suburbs. Went to Downers Grove South High > > > School (Go Mustangs!) and then went onto the University of > > > Chicago (Go Moroons!) where I graduated with a degree in > > > Economics. After school, I worked in the Financial Futures > > > markets in Chicago before being recruited by Citibank New > > > York to trade foreign exchange and fixed income securities. > > > After 4-5 years in New York, I moved to Hong Kong in 1986 > > > with Reuters PLC and have been in Greater China (HK, Taiwan, > > > Shanghai) ever since. After getting out of the banking > > > business about 5 years ago, I've been involved with real > > > estate investments in China and trading Chinese stocks. > > > > > > About six months ago, I met a lovely Chinese girl (actually a > > > lady) that I plan to marry (I know, I'm a real sucker for > > > punishment...). Anyway, long story short, my girlfriend is > > > involved in the mineral business in China so I've been on a > > > steep learning curve over the past few months on the whole > > > mineral business. Unfortunately, there are only so many hours > > > in a day... Luckily, I also had a chemistry background (my > > > mother wanted me to be a doctor, you know the story...) so > > > some of the nomenclature is not totally new to me... > > > > > > Anyway, I was reading the recent discussion on 'Chinese > > > crystals on Ebay' and noted the concerns of many on the > > > authenticity of some of the products coming out of China. I > > > understand that this problem is of grave concern to many > > > people around the world and as the old saying goes, CAVEAT > > > EMPTOR... I know it's hard for some of you to understand and > > > to accept that so many faked products are coming out of > > > China. You have to be here and watch the change that is > > > overtaking China to appreciate what's going on. I first > > > visited China with my parents in 1984. You should've seen it > > > then... and what I've seen over the past 24 years is nothing > > > short of astounding... China went from a third world country > > > to a global power in just over 1 generation... > > > > > > You can just imaging how fast the wealth discrepancies have > > > been growing here so it's understandable that there are many > > > who wish to get rich quickly, even if it is at the expense of > > > poor suckers like you and me... Just remember, Americans are > > > not above sucking the blood of their own and at the much > > > bigger scale. Just look at Enron and other examples of > > > corporate malfeasance over the past 30 years... I'm not > > > trying to excuse the fraud but just giving you the subtext of > > > what's been happening here from someone who has watched it up > > > close for the past 20+ years... > > > > > > Anyway, I know this is getting long so I'll get to my pitch > > > before you guys fall asleep. I've visited several of the > > > markets in China including those that sell crystals. I've > > > seen some amazing things and plan to get into the mineral > > > collecting business over time. As I'm new to the business, > > > I'm proceeding cautiously. I see that the internet is the way > > > to go but again, I'm learning to crawl before I start to walk. > > > > > > In short, I would be very interested in working with any > > > number of yous to source the stones, minerals, crystals that > > > you need from China. I need knowledge (like how to > > > distinguish between real and fake crystals, etc) and > > > experience that many of you can provide. In return, I get you > > > what you want or need at a reasonable price plus reasonable > > > shipping cost. I can ship (via ocean freight) to Chicago > > > where my family still lives and then ship out by UPS ground > > > at a much cheaper rate than what they offer on Ebay. Of > > > course, this takes longer than EMS shipments but can be done > > > at a much lower cost...ALSO, I need to make some money doing > > > this... but I'll guarantee you that you get exactly what you > > > paid for, not some fake replica...AND, of cause, I can > > > communicate fluently in English so things don't get mixed in > > > translation... > > > > > > Interested parties are welcome to contact me. I have a US > > > phone number: (630) 214-9727 that you can call me on and I > > > pick up in Shanghai... Just remember, I'm on the opposite > > > side of the planet from you so 13:00 CST is 02:00 here in > > > Shanghai. Please don't call me in your afternoons, I'm > > > sleeping. I can be reached here all through your evenings and > > > into the mornings. If I'm not in the office, the calls jump > > > to my cell phone and you're paying international cellular > > > rates (which can be expensive) ... so before you want to hear > > > my pleasant voice, please drop me an email: lpai@hotmail.com > > > and let me know what you would like to do. As some of you > > > already know, exporting real fossils is illegal so I won't do > > > that. Otherwise, anything goes. China has an abundance of > > > rocks and minerals and they're not above selling the roof off > > > their house... > > > > > > I will be in Tucson next year for the show so hope to see > > > some of yous in person then. I will be going to Sainte-Marie > > > and Munich this year so if any of yous attend those shows, > > > please contact me and let's have a beer together. > > > > > > I know that many of yous are already buying and selling > > > stones from China and here comes this newbie to increase the > > > competition.... My goals are simple: I like what I see and I > > > can see there's money to be made in collecting and trading > > > good stuff. Most of the good stuff is held by American or > > > European collectors. However, there is growing interest by > > > Chinese collectors and before soon, some of the Chinese > > > collectors will join the world ranks... I've seen some > > > collections already that would make your mouth water... One > > > of these days, they'll have an international show like Tucson > > > here in China and you guys get to come over and see for > > > yourself... I'll be welcoming you and showing off my > > > collection then... > > > > > > My sincere thanks for your patience and kindest regards from > > > Shanghai... > > > > > > Lyle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From lpai at hotmail.com Wed Apr 30 13:37:15 2008 From: lpai at hotmail.com (Lyle Pai) Date: Wed Apr 30 13:36:19 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Man in China References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com><001501c8aaa5$efbb89b0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> <00bf01c8aafb$524d4cd0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: Axel, I hadn't looked at FlickR before you mentioned it. Google Earth would be a little different in user interface and data presentation. I don't know if you've had a chance to look at the Google Earth product or not. It is a very impressive little program which is totally FREE... You have the ability to 'fly' into a location like a helicopter and see the surrounding landscape. You can look straight down or at an oblique angle. Users have the ability to upload photographs they have taken of a particular site or view from a particular location so that you get ground level views instead of from top down as satellites do. I was using it to get a look at how difficult it would be to visit a particular mine and get a look at the surrounding landscape. What I plan to do is when I visit a particular mine, I would then take ground level pictures and upload those along with pictures of the minerals extracted from those mines onto the Panaramio picture database which is accessible directly from Google Earth. It is also very useful to plan a trip. I used it to 'see' exactly how I would drive from Munich Airport to Sainte-Marie aux Mines. I could 'see' all the landmarks and familiarize myself with the route I should take even before I begin the trip... If you haven't had a chance to play with Google Earth, I would strongly recommend a look... Kind regards, Lyle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:49 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Man in China > Lyle, > > Something along this lines? http://flickr.com/photos/22753159@N04/map/ > > I use the FlickR site quite a lot and it is a good tool to share visual > information! > > Axel > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Lyle Pai > > Verzonden: woensdag 30 april 2008 13:01 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > > > Dear Axel, > > > > Thank you for your email. > > > > I understand the need for collectors to have precise > > information about the source location for the minerals they > > collect and I will endeavour to get as much information as I > > can. However, I must warn that this can be difficult > > sometimes. The market on the ground here is quite fragmented > > and most dealers don't like to divulge their source(s). If it > > comes from established mines then it's easier to get the > > information but there are a lot of new mines that are being > > opened with private money and they don't like to divulge the > > location of their mine(s). > > > > For example, I recently picked up some Schorl and Quartz from > > a guy who had spent 7 months digging for them and he's not > > going to tell anyone where the mine is... I'm particularly > > attracted to Schorl for some reason... and he had some very > > nice pieces... > > > > Also, a lot of the dealers were just poor peasants a few > > years ago and cared little about the details of what they > > were buying and selling. Of course, this is slowly changing > > as more and more money enters this business. The guys who got > > into this business 5-10 years ago when Chinese minerals > > started showing up in international markets in a big way are > > among the nouveau riche of China... > > > > By the way, I'm trying to put together a list of the mines in > > China using Google Earth which I thought was a fun project to > > do. I don't know if anyone has done this for mines in other > > countries. I plan to visit some of the mines myself but I > > understand some are quite inaccessible. I will record as much > > as possible and upload them onto my future website and also > > Google Earth's Panaramio photo service which I think will be > > a most interesting thing for international collectors to see > > (by satellite) exactly where their collection comes from. > > > > Anyway, if anyone has information they're willing to share... > > > > Thanks again for your comments Axel and I will keep them in > > mind. I will label all my speciments with great detail and > > sell them at ridiculously high prices...Just kidding... > > > > With kind regards, > > Lyle > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Axel Emmermann" > > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors'" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:38 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > > > > > > Hi Lyle, > > > > > > Nice to hear from you! > > > > > > Guess what? I met a very nice Chinese lady too on our > > annual mineral show. I > > > know her from our previous show but this time we actually > > got to talk since > > > I was there as a dealer for the first time. > > > She had some breathtaking stuff in her shop but obviously > > she knew the > > > current prices very well. > > > I just made clear to her that I wanted some of the > > fluorescent calcite that > > > she had (gorgeous) and that I intended to resell them BUT I > > would leave HER > > > price tag on them, not to duck under her prices. > > > She (spontaneously) said to handpick what I wanted. She the > > took out a > > > little calculator, smiled and gave me a 42% discount. > > > Cultural differences between western people and Chinese are > > enormous and > > > sometimes bewildering but you're patient and try to > > understand why they do > > > things differently, they will treat you nicer than your own > > family will. > > > > > > Now, you seem to be at the source of minerals that one day > > may be in my > > > collection. Tell your mineral suppliers that we value a > > correct and complete > > > locality of a mineral VERY highly. > > > I recently saw (again) labels like "Scheelite, Hunan, China" > > > My country ,Belgium, fits about 30 times in Hunan so we > > like to know the > > > Mine, area, nearest town or city, county, province, nation. > > > So, I guess that I'm sending you on a mission... It's (like > > suicide bombers > > > say:) all about locality, locality, locality! > > > I've left exquisite specimens that were ridiculously low > > priced lying on the > > > table of the dealer because the label was incomplete. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Axel > > > Axel Emmermann > > > European Regional Vice President of the > > > Fluorescent Mineral Society > > > > > > ========================= > > > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society > > > > > > Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende > > mineralen/Fluorescent > > > minerals > > > Technische Realisaties/Engineering > > > My website: > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Lyle Pai > > > > Verzonden: woensdag 30 april 2008 8:54 > > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > > collectors > > > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > > > As I'm brand spanking new to the list and not known to be a > > > > shy person, let me jump in with both feet and see if I > > sink or swim... > > > > > > > > My name is Lyle Pai. I'm a Chinese American currently living > > > > in Shanghai. I moved to Chicago in 1967 from Taiwan and grew > > > > up in the Chicago suburbs. Went to Downers Grove South High > > > > School (Go Mustangs!) and then went onto the University of > > > > Chicago (Go Moroons!) where I graduated with a degree in > > > > Economics. After school, I worked in the Financial Futures > > > > markets in Chicago before being recruited by Citibank New > > > > York to trade foreign exchange and fixed income securities. > > > > After 4-5 years in New York, I moved to Hong Kong in 1986 > > > > with Reuters PLC and have been in Greater China (HK, Taiwan, > > > > Shanghai) ever since. After getting out of the banking > > > > business about 5 years ago, I've been involved with real > > > > estate investments in China and trading Chinese stocks. > > > > > > > > About six months ago, I met a lovely Chinese girl (actually a > > > > lady) that I plan to marry (I know, I'm a real sucker for > > > > punishment...). Anyway, long story short, my girlfriend is > > > > involved in the mineral business in China so I've been on a > > > > steep learning curve over the past few months on the whole > > > > mineral business. Unfortunately, there are only so many hours > > > > in a day... Luckily, I also had a chemistry background (my > > > > mother wanted me to be a doctor, you know the story...) so > > > > some of the nomenclature is not totally new to me... > > > > > > > > Anyway, I was reading the recent discussion on 'Chinese > > > > crystals on Ebay' and noted the concerns of many on the > > > > authenticity of some of the products coming out of China. I > > > > understand that this problem is of grave concern to many > > > > people around the world and as the old saying goes, CAVEAT > > > > EMPTOR... I know it's hard for some of you to understand and > > > > to accept that so many faked products are coming out of > > > > China. You have to be here and watch the change that is > > > > overtaking China to appreciate what's going on. I first > > > > visited China with my parents in 1984. You should've seen it > > > > then... and what I've seen over the past 24 years is nothing > > > > short of astounding... China went from a third world country > > > > to a global power in just over 1 generation... > > > > > > > > You can just imaging how fast the wealth discrepancies have > > > > been growing here so it's understandable that there are many > > > > who wish to get rich quickly, even if it is at the expense of > > > > poor suckers like you and me... Just remember, Americans are > > > > not above sucking the blood of their own and at the much > > > > bigger scale. Just look at Enron and other examples of > > > > corporate malfeasance over the past 30 years... I'm not > > > > trying to excuse the fraud but just giving you the subtext of > > > > what's been happening here from someone who has watched it up > > > > close for the past 20+ years... > > > > > > > > Anyway, I know this is getting long so I'll get to my pitch > > > > before you guys fall asleep. I've visited several of the > > > > markets in China including those that sell crystals. I've > > > > seen some amazing things and plan to get into the mineral > > > > collecting business over time. As I'm new to the business, > > > > I'm proceeding cautiously. I see that the internet is the way > > > > to go but again, I'm learning to crawl before I start to walk. > > > > > > > > In short, I would be very interested in working with any > > > > number of yous to source the stones, minerals, crystals that > > > > you need from China. I need knowledge (like how to > > > > distinguish between real and fake crystals, etc) and > > > > experience that many of you can provide. In return, I get you > > > > what you want or need at a reasonable price plus reasonable > > > > shipping cost. I can ship (via ocean freight) to Chicago > > > > where my family still lives and then ship out by UPS ground > > > > at a much cheaper rate than what they offer on Ebay. Of > > > > course, this takes longer than EMS shipments but can be done > > > > at a much lower cost...ALSO, I need to make some money doing > > > > this... but I'll guarantee you that you get exactly what you > > > > paid for, not some fake replica...AND, of cause, I can > > > > communicate fluently in English so things don't get mixed in > > > > translation... > > > > > > > > Interested parties are welcome to contact me. I have a US > > > > phone number: (630) 214-9727 that you can call me on and I > > > > pick up in Shanghai... Just remember, I'm on the opposite > > > > side of the planet from you so 13:00 CST is 02:00 here in > > > > Shanghai. Please don't call me in your afternoons, I'm > > > > sleeping. I can be reached here all through your evenings and > > > > into the mornings. If I'm not in the office, the calls jump > > > > to my cell phone and you're paying international cellular > > > > rates (which can be expensive) ... so before you want to hear > > > > my pleasant voice, please drop me an email: lpai@hotmail.com > > > > and let me know what you would like to do. As some of you > > > > already know, exporting real fossils is illegal so I won't do > > > > that. Otherwise, anything goes. China has an abundance of > > > > rocks and minerals and they're not above selling the roof off > > > > their house... > > > > > > > > I will be in Tucson next year for the show so hope to see > > > > some of yous in person then. I will be going to Sainte-Marie > > > > and Munich this year so if any of yous attend those shows, > > > > please contact me and let's have a beer together. > > > > > > > > I know that many of yous are already buying and selling > > > > stones from China and here comes this newbie to increase the > > > > competition.... My goals are simple: I like what I see and I > > > > can see there's money to be made in collecting and trading > > > > good stuff. Most of the good stuff is held by American or > > > > European collectors. However, there is growing interest by > > > > Chinese collectors and before soon, some of the Chinese > > > > collectors will join the world ranks... I've seen some > > > > collections already that would make your mouth water... One > > > > of these days, they'll have an international show like Tucson > > > > here in China and you guys get to come over and see for > > > > yourself... I'll be welcoming you and showing off my > > > > collection then... > > > > > > > > My sincere thanks for your patience and kindest regards from > > > > Shanghai... > > > > > > > > Lyle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > From VevaBailey at aol.com Wed Apr 30 13:47:18 2008 From: VevaBailey at aol.com (VevaBailey@aol.com) Date: Wed Apr 30 13:45:51 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Man in China Message-ID: Hello List! I also love Google Earth!!! And if you look closely you are able to see mineral deposits like Turquoise that is on top of the ground. I have checked out the Grand Canyon and other places where I have lived and been able to see our yards and cars. As to finding addresses, just input the address and the program will take you right to that address. Veva Bailey Dayton, NV __________________________________________________________________________ In a message dated 4/30/2008 1:37:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lpai@hotmail.com writes: Axel, I hadn't looked at FlickR before you mentioned it. Google Earth would be a little different in user interface and data presentation. I don't know if you've had a chance to look at the Google Earth product or not. It is a very impressive little program which is totally FREE... You have the ability to 'fly' into a location like a helicopter and see the surrounding landscape. You can look straight down or at an oblique angle. Users have the ability to upload photographs they have taken of a particular site or view from a particular location so that you get ground level views instead of from top down as satellites do. I was using it to get a look at how difficult it would be to visit a particular mine and get a look at the surrounding landscape. What I plan to do is when I visit a particular mine, I would then take ground level pictures and upload those along with pictures of the minerals extracted from those mines onto the Panaramio picture database which is accessible directly from Google Earth. It is also very useful to plan a trip. I used it to 'see' exactly how I would drive from Munich Airport to Sainte-Marie aux Mines. I could 'see' all the landmarks and familiarize myself with the route I should take even before I begin the trip... If you haven't had a chance to play with Google Earth, I would strongly recommend a look... Kind regards, Lyle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axel Emmermann" To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem collectors'" Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:49 AM Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Man in China > Lyle, > > Something along this lines? http://flickr.com/photos/22753159@N04/map/ > > I use the FlickR site quite a lot and it is a good tool to share visual > information! > > Axel > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Lyle Pai > > Verzonden: woensdag 30 april 2008 13:01 > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors > > Onderwerp: Re: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > > > Dear Axel, > > > > Thank you for your email. > > > > I understand the need for collectors to have precise > > information about the source location for the minerals they > > collect and I will endeavour to get as much information as I > > can. However, I must warn that this can be difficult > > sometimes. The market on the ground here is quite fragmented > > and most dealers don't like to divulge their source(s). If it > > comes from established mines then it's easier to get the > > information but there are a lot of new mines that are being > > opened with private money and they don't like to divulge the > > location of their mine(s). > > > > For example, I recently picked up some Schorl and Quartz from > > a guy who had spent 7 months digging for them and he's not > > going to tell anyone where the mine is... I'm particularly > > attracted to Schorl for some reason... and he had some very > > nice pieces... > > > > Also, a lot of the dealers were just poor peasants a few > > years ago and cared little about the details of what they > > were buying and selling. Of course, this is slowly changing > > as more and more money enters this business. The guys who got > > into this business 5-10 years ago when Chinese minerals > > started showing up in international markets in a big way are > > among the nouveau riche of China... > > > > By the way, I'm trying to put together a list of the mines in > > China using Google Earth which I thought was a fun project to > > do. I don't know if anyone has done this for mines in other > > countries. I plan to visit some of the mines myself but I > > understand some are quite inaccessible. I will record as much > > as possible and upload them onto my future website and also > > Google Earth's Panaramio photo service which I think will be > > a most interesting thing for international collectors to see > > (by satellite) exactly where their collection comes from. > > > > Anyway, if anyone has information they're willing to share... > > > > Thanks again for your comments Axel and I will keep them in > > mind. I will label all my speciments with great detail and > > sell them at ridiculously high prices...Just kidding... > > > > With kind regards, > > Lyle > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Axel Emmermann" > > To: "'Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > collectors'" > > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 5:38 PM > > Subject: RE: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > > > > > > Hi Lyle, > > > > > > Nice to hear from you! > > > > > > Guess what? I met a very nice Chinese lady too on our > > annual mineral show. I > > > know her from our previous show but this time we actually > > got to talk since > > > I was there as a dealer for the first time. > > > She had some breathtaking stuff in her shop but obviously > > she knew the > > > current prices very well. > > > I just made clear to her that I wanted some of the > > fluorescent calcite that > > > she had (gorgeous) and that I intended to resell them BUT I > > would leave HER > > > price tag on them, not to duck under her prices. > > > She (spontaneously) said to handpick what I wanted. She the > > took out a > > > little calculator, smiled and gave me a 42% discount. > > > Cultural differences between western people and Chinese are > > enormous and > > > sometimes bewildering but you're patient and try to > > understand why they do > > > things differently, they will treat you nicer than your own > > family will. > > > > > > Now, you seem to be at the source of minerals that one day > > may be in my > > > collection. Tell your mineral suppliers that we value a > > correct and complete > > > locality of a mineral VERY highly. > > > I recently saw (again) labels like "Scheelite, Hunan, China" > > > My country ,Belgium, fits about 30 times in Hunan so we > > like to know the > > > Mine, area, nearest town or city, county, province, nation. > > > So, I guess that I'm sending you on a mission... It's (like > > suicide bombers > > > say:) all about locality, locality, locality! > > > I've left exquisite specimens that were ridiculously low > > priced lying on the > > > table of the dealer because the label was incomplete. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Axel > > > Axel Emmermann > > > European Regional Vice President of the > > > Fluorescent Mineral Society > > > > > > ========================= > > > Mineralogische Kring Antwerpen/Antwerp Mineralogical Society > > > > > > Werkgroepleider/Workgroup leader: Fluorescerende > > mineralen/Fluorescent > > > minerals > > > Technische Realisaties/Engineering > > > My website: > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > > > > Van: rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com > > > > [mailto:rockhounds-bounces@lists.drizzle.com] Namens Lyle Pai > > > > Verzonden: woensdag 30 april 2008 8:54 > > > > Aan: Rockhounds@drizzle.com: A mailing list for rock and gem > > > > collectors > > > > Onderwerp: [Rockhounds] Man in China > > > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > > > As I'm brand spanking new to the list and not known to be a > > > > shy person, let me jump in with both feet and see if I > > sink or swim... > > > > > > > > My name is Lyle Pai. I'm a Chinese American currently living > > > > in Shanghai. I moved to Chicago in 1967 from Taiwan and grew > > > > up in the Chicago suburbs. Went to Downers Grove South High > > > > School (Go Mustangs!) and then went onto the University of > > > > Chicago (Go Moroons!) where I graduated with a degree in > > > > Economics. After school, I worked in the Financial Futures > > > > markets in Chicago before being recruited by Citibank New > > > > York to trade foreign exchange and fixed income securities. > > > > After 4-5 years in New York, I moved to Hong Kong in 1986 > > > > with Reuters PLC and have been in Greater China (HK, Taiwan, > > > > Shanghai) ever since. After getting out of the banking > > > > business about 5 years ago, I've been involved with real > > > > estate investments in China and trading Chinese stocks. > > > > > > > > About six months ago, I met a lovely Chinese girl (actually a > > > > lady) that I plan to marry (I know, I'm a real sucker for > > > > punishment...). Anyway, long story short, my girlfriend is > > > > involved in the mineral business in China so I've been on a > > > > steep learning curve over the past few months on the whole > > > > mineral business. Unfortunately, there are only so many hours > > > > in a day... Luckily, I also had a chemistry background (my > > > > mother wanted me to be a doctor, you know the story...) so > > > > some of the nomenclature is not totally new to me... > > > > > > > > Anyway, I was reading the recent discussion on 'Chinese > > > > crystals on Ebay' and noted the concerns of many on the > > > > authenticity of some of the products coming out of China. I > > > > understand that this problem is of grave concern to many > > > > people around the world and as the old saying goes, CAVEAT > > > > EMPTOR... I know it's hard for some of you to understand and > > > > to accept that so many faked products are coming out of > > > > China. You have to be here and watch the change that is > > > > overtaking China to appreciate what's going on. I first > > > > visited China with my parents in 1984. You should've seen it > > > > then... and what I've seen over the past 24 years is nothing > > > > short of astounding... China went from a third world country > > > > to a global power in just over 1 generation... > > > > > > > > You can just imaging how fast the wealth discrepancies have > > > > been growing here so it's understandable that there are many > > > > who wish to get rich quickly, even if it is at the expense of > > > > poor suckers like you and me... Just remember, Americans are > > > > not above sucking the blood of their own and at the much > > > > bigger scale. Just look at Enron and other examples of > > > > corporate malfeasance over the past 30 years... I'm not > > > > trying to excuse the fraud but just giving you the subtext of > > > > what's been happening here from someone who has watched it up > > > > close for the past 20+ years... > > > > > > > > Anyway, I know this is getting long so I'll get to my pitch > > > > before you guys fall asleep. I've visited several of the > > > > markets in China including those that sell crystals. I've > > > > seen some amazing things and plan to get into the mineral > > > > collecting business over time. As I'm new to the business, > > > > I'm proceeding cautiously. I see that the internet is the way > > > > to go but again, I'm learning to crawl before I start to walk. > > > > > > > > In short, I would be very interested in working with any > > > > number of yous to source the stones, minerals, crystals that > > > > you need from China. I need knowledge (like how to > > > > distinguish between real and fake crystals, etc) and > > > > experience that many of you can provide. In return, I get you > > > > what you want or need at a reasonable price plus reasonable > > > > shipping cost. I can ship (via ocean freight) to Chicago > > > > where my family still lives and then ship out by UPS ground > > > > at a much cheaper rate than what they offer on Ebay. Of > > > > course, this takes longer than EMS shipments but can be done > > > > at a much lower cost...ALSO, I need to make some money doing > > > > this... but I'll guarantee you that you get exactly what you > > > > paid for, not some fake replica...AND, of cause, I can > > > > communicate fluently in English so things don't get mixed in > > > > translation... > > > > > > > > Interested parties are welcome to contact me. I have a US > > > > phone number: (630) 214-9727 that you can call me on and I > > > > pick up in Shanghai... Just remember, I'm on the opposite > > > > side of the planet from you so 13:00 CST is 02:00 here in > > > > Shanghai. Please don't call me in your afternoons, I'm > > > > sleeping. I can be reached here all through your evenings and > > > > into the mornings. If I'm not in the office, the calls jump > > > > to my cell phone and you're paying international cellular > > > > rates (which can be expensive) ... so before you want to hear > > > > my pleasant voice, please drop me an email: lpai@hotmail.com > > > > and let me know what you would like to do. As some of you > > > > already know, exporting real fossils is illegal so I won't do > > > > that. Otherwise, anything goes. China has an abundance of > > > > rocks and minerals and they're not above selling the roof off > > > > their house... > > > > > > > > I will be in Tucson next year for the show so hope to see > > > > some of yous in person then. I will be going to Sainte-Marie > > > > and Munich this year so if any of yous attend those shows, > > > > please contact me and let's have a beer together. > > > > > > > > I know that many of yous are already buying and selling > > > > stones from China and here comes this newbie to increase the > > > > competition.... My goals are simple: I like what I see and I > > > > can see there's money to be made in collecting and trading > > > > good stuff. Most of the good stuff is held by American or > > > > European collectors. However, there is growing interest by > > > > Chinese collectors and before soon, some of the Chinese > > > > collectors will join the world ranks... I've seen some > > > > collections already that would make your mouth water... One > > > > of these days, they'll have an international show like Tucson > > > > here in China and you guys get to come over and see for > > > > yourself... I'll be welcoming you and showing off my > > > > collection then... > > > > > > > > My sincere thanks for your patience and kindest regards from > > > > Shanghai... > > > > > > > > Lyle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > > Subscription Services: > > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > > Subscription Services: > > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > > Subscription Services: > > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > -- _______________________________________________ Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List Subscription Services: http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html **************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851) --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- From axel.emmermann at pandora.be Wed Apr 30 15:10:44 2008 From: axel.emmermann at pandora.be (Axel Emmermann) Date: Wed Apr 30 15:10:41 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Man in China In-Reply-To: References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com><001501c8aaa5$efbb89b0$6601a8c0@AxelHP><00bf01c8aafb$524d4cd0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <00e201c8ab0f$091ec610$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Lyle > I hadn't looked at FlickR before you mentioned it. Google > Earth would be a little different in user interface and data > presentation. Yes but it is compatible with it. What you place on FlickR 's Geomap WILL appear on your Google Earth. > I don't know if you've had a chance to look at the Google > Earth product or not. It is a very impressive little program > which is totally FREE... I have it and use it extensively. > > I was using it to get a look at how difficult it would be to > visit a particular mine and get a look at the surrounding > landscape. What I plan to do is when I visit a particular > mine, I would then take ground level pictures and upload > those along with pictures of the minerals extracted from > those mines onto the Panaramio picture database which is > accessible directly from Google Earth. Good idea! Sometimes you can even find a mine or quarry in an isolated landscape just by looking at it from above. Axel From larryrush at worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 30 17:10:00 2008 From: larryrush at worldnet.att.net (Lawrence Rush) Date: Wed Apr 30 17:10:15 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] Herkimer Video References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001301c8ab1f$b3315630$0200000a@LarryRush> There is also a good video of a Herkimer pocket being opened at: www.MineralTown.com Guaranteed to stir up the collecting lust in anyone! Larry Rush From Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net Wed Apr 30 18:00:32 2008 From: Kreigh at Tomaszewski.net (Kreigh Tomaszewski) Date: Wed Apr 30 17:51:10 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] massachusetts References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001501c8aaa5$efbb89b0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: <481913F4.3769@Tomaszewski.net> Marilyn, Look for Philip Morrill's Mineral Guide to New England (NE). It includes five pages of collecting sites with maps. Many of the sites you will need the map, but it mentions one road cut on Rte 495, 500 yards west of Rte 97 that produces pyrite cubes up to an inch. Kreigh marilyn olson wrote: > > does anyone have any information about specific rock collecting sites in Massachusetts??? > thanks Marilyn > _________________________________________________________________ > Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html From rocknate at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 19:57:03 2008 From: rocknate at gmail.com (Nathan Martin) Date: Wed Apr 30 19:57:07 2008 Subject: [Rockhounds] massachusetts In-Reply-To: References: <627435.59049.qm@web82507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001501c8aaa5$efbb89b0$6601a8c0@AxelHP> Message-ID: Marilyn, Will you be visiting or do you live in Massachusetts? If you live in Massachusetts, there are a number of very good mineral clubs in our state that run a number of field trips to various localities throughout New England. I belong to the Boston Mineral Club (www.bostonmineralclub.org) and coordinate our fieldtrips. Some of the other active clubs include The Worcester Mineral Club (http://www.worcestermineralclub.org/) The North Shore Rock and Mineral Club ( http://www.nahant.com/nsrmc/welcome.html), and The Southeastern Massachusetts Mineral Club (http://semmc.org/) Many of our best localities are operating quarries that can only be visited legally via special arrangements through an organized club. If you are just visiting there are just a few good localities that can be visited legally without prior arrangement. One is Shaft 10 in Hardwick, MA, which features micro-sized specimens of epidote, babingtonite, fluorite, etc. Another interesting locality is the dumps of old emery mines in Chester, MA. Very nice specimens of margarite (a pink mica) can still be found there. Contact me off list if you are interested in more information. best regards, Nate Martin Lexington, MA On 4/30/08, marilyn olson wrote: > > > does anyone have any information about specific rock collecting sites in > Massachusetts??? > thanks Marilyn > _________________________________________________________________ > Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate > crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 > > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- > multipart/alternative > text/plain (text body -- kept) > text/html > --- > -- > _______________________________________________ > Rockhounds@drizzle Mailing List > Subscription Services: > http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/rockhounds > List Home Page, with a link to the List Usage Policy: > http://www.eclecticlapidary.com/Rockhounds/index.html > --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html ---